"Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1227. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Combat Sports History, Psychology of High Performance, and Personal Transformation Narratives." Three, two, one. Boom, and we're live. What's
happening, Joe? What's up, Mike? Tom Segura's
in the house for a few minutes here to stop by
to say hi. I can't believe you've never had a
cup of coffee. Never. You want some? No. That
might be the most outrageous thing about you,
is that you've never had coffee. Your whole life,
you've never had coffee. Did you just? Tea, never
coffee. No one ever offered you a cup of coffee?
No. You never went to Starbucks? Never. For tea,
I had some donuts. Wow. What about like at? When
I was in rehab, you always got to go to Starbucks
because the meeting's right outside of Starbucks.
You always hang out at Starbucks. Right. But
never for coffee. You didn't want to try it?
Never. Hmm. How about girlfriends, wives, none
of them ever drank coffee at home? I'm sure they
have, but I never really. My wife drinks it.
And you just, nothing? Nothing. I'm so addicted
to coffee. All the stuff I did and all the drugs
I did, you'd think coffee would be nothing. That's
what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't
make any sense. When did you first try any drugs?
Kid. When you were a kid? Nine years old. What
kind of shit? Smoking and drinking. Right. Then
as I got older, I tried acid. How old were you
when you first tried acid? Probably 11. Wow.
Yeah, really young. Jesus, man. Wow, that's really
young. Wow. But when you were the champ, when
you were in your prime, like when you beat Trevor
Burbick, were you doing anything back then? Just
drinking a lot. Drinking a lot? Really? Yeah.
That's amazing. Would you go clean for camp?
Just for camp. Just for camp. Just for camp.
Yeah. But outside, like once fights over. Yeah.
I'm an animal. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. You were the
first guy that I ever used as an example to break
that old myth that you can't have sex before
fights. And I was like, well, that's out the
window. For sure. Because you would talk about
it all the time. You'd be like, yeah. Yeah, pretty
much, yeah. Your logic made sense, too. You're
like, I don't want to think about it. I don't
want to be thinking about sex. I'll just get
it out of the way. Yeah, and it's over with.
You don't have to do it. You have your refuel
for the next six weeks and you're going with
your fight. Do you think that was a myth that
it made you weak? Yeah, I think it's a myth.
Yeah, it doesn't seem to make sense. It seems
odd, yeah. I would inspire you more so than disintegrate
you, I would think. They said that the Olympic,
you know, where the athletes stay is just like
fuck fest. Of course. I don't think so. Yeah.
They have the boys and the girls. They're the
same vicinity. Also, probably want to alleviate
some anxiety. Anxiety. Freaking out. You're at
the Olympics. You know, you're 18 years old.
And everyone's in amazing shape. Yeah. Stressed
out. Yeah. When you were first coming up and
when you were first, like when you were Kid Dynamite
on Sports Illustrated, I'll never forget that,
man. That was your era from like, you know, the
80s, the late 80s. That era, like, it was a big
part of my youth. You know, like you being, yeah,
man, you being the champ. It was like, it was
a change of things. Because when Larry Holmes
was the champ as a boxing fan, I loved Larry
Holmes. Like, there's that cover. You were 19
years old, right? It's nuts. When Larry Holmes
was a champ as a boxing fan. Wow, you still got
that stuff, man? You can still get those. Yeah.
Sports Illustrated. It's the internet. You can
find it on the internet. That's how Jamie got
it. I had that Sports Illustrated. But when Larry
Holmes was a champ. As a boxing fan, I appreciated
him. I knew he was a great fighter. We'd get
together with friends and watch the Michael Spinks
fight with Larry Holmes when Spinks beat him
for the title. It was a big deal, but it wasn't
a big deal culturally. People didn't care as
much. But then you came around, and when you
came around, all of a sudden, everybody's watching
heavyweight boxing. Heavyweight boxing wasn't...
Boring again. It was the the most crazy Exciting
thing in sports when your fights would go on
it would be about Should I pay for this because
how long is this gonna last like that never?
People tell me about the time they all chipped
in. Yeah, I never think about it like that, you
know sometimes When it comes my Realization of
the situation I forget that I'm that guy forget
that I trained that hard and I became a fighter
and stuff Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you
like deep Does it seem like a dream? Yeah, pretty
much like a blur. Because I couldn't imagine
what it would be like to be 19 years old, 20
years old, to be that fucking famous. It was
a trip. Who can handle that? Can anybody handle
that? No, it was a trip, but it was just what
custom model, you know, that was his blueprint
to make me this teenage superstar. Did he give
you advice on how to handle pressure and fame?
Oh, the pressure and everything, but you know,
He says really no ingredients on how to handle
fame. You know what I mean? We have to see what
Department of Fame is your problem, and we have
to work on that issue from there. But no one
knows how to conduct themselves under that kind
of pressure. No. I couldn't imagine. It's the
level of fame, too. Yes. You realize there's
so many levels of fame, and then Mike's is still
just, extraordinary where like people people
walk away from their job like in an airport they're
supposed to be at the cash register and they
run out you know they leave their job to go say
hi that's not you know most of the time you're
like oh that's who that person is it's a totally
different thing How weird is that? That's pretty
weird. It took time for me to get used to that
stuff. I used to be one of those, get the fuck
away from me, man. What are you doing, you creep?
I never knew how to conduct myself. Mike, come
here. Take a picture of my mother. Take a picture
of my kid. Take a picture here. Take a picture
here. I love you. I'm like, whoa, dude. Cool
out. You know what I mean? But now, you know,
I understand this is just what it is. It is what
it is, and you're not going to be able to stop
it. Yeah, I've seen you at the UFC before. You're
very calm around people. When people are grabbing
at you, want to take pictures, you just relax.
The UFC is awesome because everybody's nuts.
Yeah, it's definitely a wild environment. What
do you think Khabib's going to do now? What do
I think who? Khabib? Yeah. Well, he does whatever
the fuck he wants to do. That's what I think.
I think that guy's... which is probably the best
lightweight of all time. He's a monster. Incredible.
I think he's probably going to have some fights
at 170 pounds eventually, if I'd imagine. At
155, there's good fights for him. Tony Ferguson's
a great fight for him. I'm really interested
in seeing that. I'm really interested in seeing
him going up. I'm really interested in seeing
him fight at 170 pounds. Who's up there for him
to fight? Well, first of all, Tyron Woodley,
who's the champ at 170, that would be an insane
fight. George St. Pierre, if he decided to come
back and make a big super fight, that would be
an insane fight. I think 170 has a lot of opportunities
for him. But I think 155 does too. They just
have to figure out who's going to fight him.
He's an international superstar now. You know,
Khabib, especially the way he smashed Conor.
Conor's such a superstar already that the way
Khabib won and did it so dominant, I think he's
through the roof now. I think when he comes back
and people see the pay -per -view numbers of
his fights, they're going to realize how huge
this guy is. Because he's so interesting. He's
very humble. He's very polite. Very well -spoken.
Very religious guy. Lives with his family. Lives
with his parents. Lives with his parents and
his family, I believe. I hope I'm not speaking
out of school. I believe that's true. And obviously,
he doesn't have to for money. I mean, he's rich
as shit now. Yeah. But he's just a monster. Best
grappler I've ever seen inside the 155 -pound
division. He just smashes people. What do you
think about Jon Jones, though? In what way? His
skills. He's phenomenal. Incredible. The best
ever at using distance. He knows distance better
than anybody. He's a master at knowing when he
can hit you and you can't hit him. Yeah, I miss
watching him fight. You know what I mean? He's
not fighting as much anymore. He's back. He just
won. Just won the title again. Just fought Alexander
Gustafson. Yeah? Yeah, a couple weeks ago. Yeah.
For bacon title? It was Daniel Cormier relinquished
his title. And it was like... It's weird, right?
Cormier is the champ because Jon Jones tested
positive for something, so they stripped him,
and then Cormier became the champ. I think they'll
probably fight again, whether they fight again
at heavyweight or light heavyweight. Really?
Yeah, I think Cormier and Jon Jones. If Cormier
wants to, he wants to keep going. But he says
he wants to retire soon. He's 40. Yeah. He still
looks good, though. He looks great, especially
at heavyweight. At heavyweight, he doesn't have
to cut weight. He's got so much strength. Just
so agile. He's such an unbelievable wrestler,
too. I mean, his wrestling skill, his skill level
and understanding of wrestling is so high. It's
so above most people. Anybody he fights outside
of John Jones, he dominates. Yeah, yeah. That's
how good John is. John's that good. He's that
good. I mean, it just sucks that he's had so
many controversies in his life, but I'm hoping
he... Puts all that shit behind him. Have you
ever spoken with him about that? Yeah, never
about his personal life or anything, but we met
before and talked. But you're a guy who's gone,
I mean, when you went through legal problems
yourself, you overcame, you came out of it on
the other end. I would think a guy like him could
benefit a lot from talking to a guy like you.
Yeah, but it's just so difficult and it's so
unfortunate that he has to go through something
like that, you know? Do you think so? Yes, it's
really unfortunate, you know, because sometimes
people... They don't survive situations like
that. Because they're so wild and they're having
a good time too much and they're partying and
they're the champ. It has to come to an end.
If you don't bring it to an end, it's going to
come to its own end. It might not like that way
it ends. Yeah. So you think for a guy like him,
maybe getting in trouble was a good thing? If
only if you learn from experiences like that,
you know? I was just a wild guy. I was really
a wild guy. I look at myself now and I say to
myself, Spent all those trips in those psych
wards and stuff. I said, what was that all about?
What was wrong with me back then? You know? Yeah.
And I must say, I was really disturbed back then.
But you're somebody who got to the point where
you got, like, it's really fascinating because
I know you're a public figure. So, you know,
I've been able to watch you my whole life. You
went through all that stuff, and then you got
to this point where you're very self -reflective.
You are able to comment on it. I mean, most people,
regardless of whether they're famous or not,
just still don't get to that point where they're
able to look back and examine who they were and
doing wild shit. With ruthless honesty. Yeah.
That's what's so great. You have to reflect on
yourself to discover who you really are. Yeah.
When you're 20 years old and all of a sudden
you're the heavyweight champion of the world
just a few years ago, you were poor. And now
all of a sudden you're the king of the world.
That's really crazy. You're not so young. It's
really crazy. I was unable to handle that. I
wasn't expecting that. That was a real sucker
punch right there. Charlie Murphy. That's a real
sucker punch right there. I wasn't ready for
that one. Charlie Murphy told us a story, and
it's animated. It's on YouTube now. Of you and
him coming over your house in a limousine and
you had a, was it a lion or a tiger? Tiger. He
must have a lion for the tiger. Dude. It is one
of the craziest fucking stories. I always, when,
so for people that don't know, I got to hang
out with you at one of my shows one time and
it was a great, I had the best time talking about
everything. What made you think you could get
a tiger? Like, how did that even happen? Hey,
I'm in, this is really interesting. And so I'm
in prison at the time. So I'm in prison and I'm
talking to my car dealer at the time. And he
has some... cars that belong to a friend of mine
that's both a friend of ours, and he's discussing
if he doesn't pay for these cars, I'm going to
sell these cars to someone and get some horses
and stuff. I said, well, you can get horses and
trade horses in for cars? Because I had a lot
of cars. I said, I'll probably get some horses,
too. And he said, yeah, man, you can get cougars,
lions, tigers. I know this guy got excited. I
said, you do? Can you get me some tigers? He
said, yeah. And the guy told me, and the guy
said, man, imagine how cool that'd be. Because
I had a bunch of fancy cars. Imagine that, man,
you'd be in an Aston Martin or a Ferrari. tiger
right next to you, man. That would be so awesome.
And I'm a young guy. I'm in prison. I'm saying
to myself, wow, that would be cool, right? After
a year, get me some cubs, man. And then when
I came home, I had those cubs right there waiting
for me. So you raised them as cubs? Yes. Because
I would see footage of you fucking smacking them
around and jumping on one of your tigers. And
I was like, holy shit. I had their babies. They
had their mothers. Their mothers had their babies.
Now, this is a crazy picture. You in your underwear
with a tiger on a chain. That is one of the...
That's the champ right there. That's you at peak
crazy. Yeah, insane. Tom, what was going through
my mind? I don't know what made me think about
my friend said, Mike, you can get some awesome
animals. And I'm like, really? Are you serious?
I'm going to get some horses. Everybody does
it, though. That was one of the things about,
what's his face from Narcos? Pablo Escobar. He
got like a fucking zoo. Escobar had a whole crazy
zoo. They all do it. Once you get that rich,
you're like, get some animals. Yeah, you want
to fuck with some animals. Get some animals.
Fuck these people. Get some animals. And they
throw people in there with the lions and tigers.
Get in there, you motherfucker. It's a real common
thing with super rich people. They start getting
lions and tigers and shit. Michael Jackson had
all that stuff too. That's right. Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson and everything. He was in Neverland,
too. He was in Neverland. He had like a zoo in
his backyard. That's true. But he had weird shit,
like weird birds. Yeah. I don't think, maybe
he had a monkey or something. He did have weird
shit. Nothing dangerous. I hung up there before
at the Playboy Mansion. This was at the end of
his career. That was like in, what was it, 10
years ago or something? It was pretty awesome.
Yeah, that guy, man. What a life he lived. Hugh?
Yeah. In his pajamas. They're sucking his balls
and he's 80 and shit. Oh, no. Deep into his 80s.
Deep into his 80s. Deep, yeah. Even his 90s.
Yeah. Here's the thing. That dude lived the lifestyle
he was talking about. You know, a lot of people
talk shit and you're like, you don't really do
that. He was really doing it, man. If I started
living that lifestyle, I'd be dark. I'd start
getting dark. You know? You can have a little
of your walk. That's just amazing. Too much.
Yeah. Too much. Wait, one other. I got to run.
Where are you going, man? I got to go meet the
wife, man. Oh, yeah. That'll do it to you. That'll
do it. I read one time. All right, so for people
that know, I met Mike on a flight, and it was
a surreal experience. You know, like from being
a kid. and thinking like this is superman that's
what i thought as a kid it's just you know i
mean like seeing those when you see it as a kid
too i think it's different like you're just like
whoa that is so nuts like these 11 second knockouts
you know what's so bizarre periodically even
to this day people come up to me and talk about
the experience that they saw him and he talked
about meeting me is that true all the time it's
special it's on it's on most stories is that
true Yeah, mostly stories. And it was a surreal
experience. And, you know, we spoke on the plane.
And then, like, when I thought we were done talking,
you know, I faced forward. And then he came back
and, like, tapped me on the shoulder. I was like,
oh, shit. Like, Mike's talking to me. I'm down
here, like, seat belted in. But then we land,
and he was like, oh, where's your show? And I
go, oh, it's here. I gave him the number. Never
expect to hear. Hits me up the next day. And
he's like, we're coming to your show. And I was
like, oh my God. And I really did say like, I'm
amazed that you're coming. And he said, it's
all love. And I just said, I love you. Because
I didn't know what to say. That was good. That
was cool. He's like, all right, man. I have the
phone. I remember I called the Pittsburgh improv
manager, and I go, hey, man. I just go, you're
not going to believe this, but Tyson's coming
to the fight tonight. He goes, Mike Tyson? I
go, no, fucking Tyson Chicken. Yeah, Mike Tyson's
coming tonight. He's like, I'll corridor off
a whole thing. And I didn't know he was at the
show because the show had already started, and
I didn't see him arrive. And when we go back
to the green, after the show, I walk off stage
and he grabs me and he goes, let's go to the
green room. So he took me to my green room, right?
Like he was like, and I was like, fuck yeah.
And we hung out in that green room over an hour
and just shooting the shit and talking. And when
I forgot, like the time had passed, I opened
the door. The entire staff, entire staff is lined
up at the door to meet him. like that's the effect
that he has on the group you know like they're
waiting in a line for an hour outside the green
room and i you know we talked about boxing about
life it was it was fascinating um one of the
things i really appreciated about uh you as a
fighter was like that you really knew that you
were putting on a show so that that's something
that i feel like i miss There's no one that put
on the show the way you did. You knew that people
bought tickets and paid for the pay -per -view.
And then it's still one of my great memories,
man. It was a thrill to meet you. So I just wanted
to stop by and say hi. Sounds like you're wrapping
it up. Yeah, he has to go. I do, I do. Oh, by
the way, did you buy seven Bentleys that were
the same color? No, but I bought around seven
Bentleys before. Damn. They were Rolls Royces.
I wanted to ask that. But you did give away one
when you crashed it, right? Yeah, let me tell
you that story. I wish I had some time. I was
married at the time to Robin Givens, and we were
in some fast food joint. We were ordering food,
and she went in my pocket, I guess, to get some
money out of my pocket to pay for it. And she
saw some condoms came out, and she was mad, so
she got in the car. And then, boom, she crashed
the car into another car that was just parked
there. Boom. And she hit somebody and she hurt
their arm. And then the cops came. And so the
cops came and the cops were saying, hey, what
happened here? Right. And I was afraid they were
going to arrest me. So I said, well, nothing
happened, officer. Nothing. And the guy was.
And it was a guy with a broken arm. I said, you
know, sir, why don't you just take the car? You
know, you deserve it because you've been doing
a lot. Because I didn't want to get arrested.
I didn't have a license or anything. I didn't
want my wife to get in trouble. I said, why don't
you just take it? It was around 230 at the time.
I said, why don't you just take it? It'll be
okay. And the guy said, hey, don't tell me that.
And then once he said that, I said, got him.
I said, I got him. And I said, hey, man, take
it, man. Do this, man. You deserve this. Take
it. And they took it. But before that, the guy,
some guy's arm was broken, and I gave him my
money. I said, take the money. And then he came
back to the police. He said, my arm is broken.
Now, get away from me. I'm not going to tell
you to get away from me no more, because he didn't
want to mess this deal up with this car, because
the guy complained he's not going to get this
car. That's hilarious. The cops said, don't fucking
come near me again. That is hilarious. So the
guy is backed off, and I say, hey, go ahead,
man. I'll see you later. And I took off with
my wife. I didn't want us to get in trouble.
But they made him give away the car, right? I
went back to my office, and I said, give me my
fucking car back. Really? Yeah. He got fired.
He did? Yeah. Oh, my God. He's probably hearing
this night that I'm going to get that bastard
type. So you gave it to him? I wanted my Indian
gift. I wanted my car back. I wanted my car back.
Oh, no. You imagine Mike Tyson calls you up and
says, give me my fucking car back. You're like,
shit! Yeah. It's outside, man. I got it for you.
God damn it. Listen, I got to tell you something.
I got to tell you something. You guys know I
embarked on the marijuana business. Yes. This
beautiful box that you gave me. That is a beautiful
box, by the way. That's so awesome. Thank you,
man, for accepting it. My pleasure. I'm honored.
That's a cool -ass box, man. Yeah, Tyson Ranch
is going to be opening up pretty shortly. Yeah,
you guys have. I saw the plans. I mean, 2022.
This is a big deal. Really? I mean, this place
is gigantic. Which state? It's in California.
It is here? Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah. They're setting
up like a resort. Really? Yeah. It's going to
be the best facility in the world, man. It's
going to have an acre long lake. Wow. Yeah. You
could go, like, stay. Everything else is going
to be camping, glamping. Glamping. Glamorous
camping. Glamorous camping. Very glamorous, yeah.
How about some tigers and shit? Put some wild
animals. It's a possibility. My partner, Rob
Hickman, was discussing that, too. Where are
those tigers? Well, I had them for, like, 14
years, so I had to get rid of them. You know
what I mean? What do you do when you want to
get rid of a tiger? A sanctuary. Oh. All right.
Fuck. I got to run. I love you. I love you. I
love you, too, buddy. Look, better cannabis,
dude. There it is. Yeah. Congrats on that, man.
That looks dope. Awesome, man. I'm so excited
about this stuff. I love embarking on this cannabis
stuff. This stuff is so awesome. Yeah, you seem
to be really enjoying this. When you're talking
to your partners out there, you're having a good
time with this. Oh, man, I never thought that
in a million years I'd be able to do this and
legalize. Yeah. When did you start regularly
smoking weed? Since I was like 10 years old.
The whole time you were fighting, you were regularly
smoking weed? Well, you know, when you're a kid,
your mother gives you liquor and marijuana for
you to think that you're going to go to sleep
or something. Yeah. Really? Yeah. That never
happened in my house. Never? Yeah. My mother
was an alcoholic and stuff. Damn. That's harsh.
Liquor and marijuana. See if you go to sleep.
Yeah. It didn't work. I don't think so. I don't
think so. What benefits do you get out of marijuana?
What does it do for you? Hey, man, if I didn't,
I'd have a bad day. Yeah, I'm a really moody
guy without it. And it just smooths me out. As
soon as I take it, I'm a whole different person.
I'm really on top of my game. I'm boiling. Yeah,
I feel the same way sometimes. It makes me nicer.
Yeah. Yeah, it calms me down. And I like who
I am when I smoke. You know what I mean? When
I weed, I don't sometimes like who I am sometimes.
That's just the real sometimes. Yeah, yeah. I
don't like that guy. I want to get away from
that guy. Well, you know, I was talking to Michael
Irvin once. He was explaining to me that when
children grow up in high stress environments,
that their genes are wired to have a propensity
towards violence. If it's normal, if it's around
them all the time, when they're growing up and
when they're in the womb. Yeah, I agree. When
their mother's under extreme stress, if they
live in a bad neighborhood. And it's hard for
some people like yourself that did grow up in
an environment like that to ever reach where
you're at right now, just a place of peace. And
if you can do that through marijuana or whatever
it is, yoga, meditation, whatever you do to get
there. Like, we should be happy that you can
get there. That's what we want. Listen, I am
so grateful that I embarked on this. You know,
I've never been a person to this magnitude of
this kind of relaxation. I was enjoying my time
with you. I was very uptight. At any time, I
was very uncomfortable with myself. Did you feel
any better after you worked out when you were
young like that? Absolutely. But my work's out.
You know what? The best thing that ever happened
to me that I retired from boxing was me working
out at Megan. I was so intense with this. My
whole objective was hurting people and wanting
to be the best, and my ego took over, and I'm
like Tyson. I'm the best that ever lived and
all this bullshit. Dealing with my partner, Rob
Hickman, I happened to embark on this, come across
this thing called the Toad. Are you familiar
with the toad? Yeah, what you're talking about
is 5 -methoxy -dimethyltipine. Oh, that's it
right there, yeah. And I came across that, and
I smoked this, I don't know, this medicine, drug,
whatever you want to call it. And I've never
been the same. I look at life different. I look
at people differently. And it's an experience
I can't even express, really. It's almost like
dying and being reborn. Yeah, I had the exact
same experience. That's what it felt like to
me, too, like you stop existing. The five methoxys,
there's two. Tell me what's the deal with it.
What the hell's going on here? Five methoxys
produced by your brain, but what it is is. It's
DMT with an oxygen molecule attached to it. So
regular DMT is NN dimethyltryptamine. And then
5 -methoxydimethyltryptamine is DMT with a very
subtle change to the molecule. And that subtle
change, for some reason, takes away the visuals.
You've done regular DMT too, right? Yes. Regular
DMT is rich with visuals. Very strange, bright,
colorful, impossible to describe visuals. Yes.
It's inconceivable. Inconceivable is the best
way to put it. Yeah, inconceivable. I try to
explain it to some people, my wives, and it's
just I don't have the words to explain it. That's
exactly what I always say. I've done a terrible
job explaining it to everybody. Every time I've
tried, it just doesn't work. But all those things,
they give you perspective. It's almost like you're
dying, you're submissive, you're humble, you're
vulnerable, but you're invincible still and all.
It's just that weird feeling. But you feel like
you're part of the universe. When you're separate
from your ego, you realize this whole thing,
you're a part of this whole thing, and this whole
thing is unstoppable. It's a gigantic, huge,
all -encompassing, almost like a living thing.
You know, Joan, this is what I also realized,
too, after going through that experience. You
realize how insignificant you are sometimes without
your ego. Yes. You realize why you're not really
much that you really thought you were. Yeah,
you are and you aren't. Obviously, you are in
everyday life. I mean, you go places, you have
a dramatic effect on people. You mean a lot.
You mean a lot to those people that you run into.
You mean a lot to the people that you love and
that love you. But we all do. It's all relative.
No one is irreplaceable, but everyone is special
to someone or something and at least to themselves.
But we're all the same. We're all a part of this
weird, crazy, gigantic organism. That's the human
race. You know, so, Arthur, you said it. My mentor,
Customato, his objective was to think of nothing.
You're nothing. Nothing's nothing but the objective,
the job. And that was his psychological warfare.
You know, nothing matters. You're nothing. Nothing.
The only thing that matters is the objective
and accomplishing that objective by going through
these methods of boxing. Do you ever stop and
think about how fortunate it was you ran into
that guy? Listen, to this day, I really don't
understand that. So how did this happen? Because
so many people. Listen, by the time I was born,
he was 66 years old by the time I was born. Yeah.
Crazy. So many people could, you know. Can't
even explain it. It's a magnificent individual.
He was an amazing guy. An amazing part of boxing
and with a. unprecedented grasp of the mindset
required for combat sports. That was the thing
that always really stood out about him. Like
he was a guy that was so. He was so well -versed
in the mindset. I would listen to his speeches
that he would talk, when he would talk about
you, when he would talk about boxing, he would
talk about fear. And about fear can be like a
fire. It can cook your food or it can burn your
house down. And you have to control it. And when
he would describe it, it would be so enlightening.
He was such a man of wisdom that when he would
describe things, they would sink in. Somebody
could say the same thing. But with him, he had
so much life experience. He wore so many hats.
He was a psychiatrist. He was a doctor. He was
a father. He was a mother. You know, he was just
all around that individual. Yeah. And with an
amazing knowledge of boxing. And for a guy like
you, it was almost like it was ordained. That's
what I always say. It was meant for me to meet
this guy. Because I had no way in a million years.
Everybody would say, no way you're going to be
a champ. You're too small. Yeah. You're too short.
No way. These guys are too big for you. He said,
this is the greatest fight I've ever lived. This
and this, always saying this about me. I'm like,
oh, God, this guy is just souping me up. I never
thought I could achieve what he was saying. The
things he was saying were just so gigantic in
my eyes at the time. Yeah, I mean, when it all
happened, and it turned out that he was true,
and you have to absorb all this when you're 20
years old. You know, I always say this about
Justin Bieber, and I don't think Justin Bieber
nearly had to deal with what you had to deal
with. Your experience was so much crazier because
you were not just an incredibly famous guy. You
were the baddest man on the planet. So there
was like an aura to you everywhere you went.
People wanted to see you. You know, 50 -year
-old men don't give a fuck about Justin Bieber.
You know, no disrespect. He's a great guy, a
great singer. But it's not. He's like young girls.
For young girls, that guy's unbelievably famous.
But he's been famous since he was a little kid.
I'm like, when people hear about him going crazy.
That's amazing, right? Amazing. When people hear
about him going insane, I'm like, of course he's
going insane. You have no idea what it would
be like to be him and to be 17 years old and
girls literally trying to break into his house
to throw pussy at him. They're coming down chimneys.
They're flying in on parachutes. They're doing
anything they can. They just want to be around
him. And you want him to be normal? Oh, man.
Poor guy. No one can handle that. What kind of
music you listening to? I listen to everything,
man. I do. I listen to a lot of classic rock
for whatever reason. But I've been listening
to a lot of Kanye West over the last few weeks.
Tell me, what is he talking about? Kanye? Yeah.
Well, he's talking about a lot of crazy shit.
He actually talked about DMT in one of his recent
songs. Really? You think he did that before?
I think he did. Oh, man. Well, I know he's friends
with Kid Cudi. Kid Cudi's been in here, and Kid
Cudi's had some psychedelic experiences. Yeah.
Once you go there, you don't want to do nothing
else again. Well, it puts it all in the perspective.
It lets you see that as much as this thing seems
to be important, this is all temporary, and you're
a part of forever. And it also allows you to
become comfortable with death. Yeah. Yeah, you
know who said that? Larry Hagman. Remember that
guy Dallas? Yeah. From J .R. from Dallas. J .R.
from Dallas. He did an interview with CNN once.
And I Dream of Jeannie as well. Yeah, that's
right. He sprung it on him on CNN once. He was
talking about how he did acid. He took a big
dose of acid and he's never worried about death
ever again. That it just alleviated his worry
about passing on. That's wild. It's just that
because I felt the same way. I said, well, it
doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. I think DNT even
more specifically because they think it might
be. Yeah, why does it affect the mind that way?
What causes it to affect the mind that way? They
don't totally know. That it makes you visualize
everything. They don't totally know. They know
that your brain makes it. They know that your
body makes it, they should say. They know that
it's producing your liver and their lungs. And
there's some evidence now, because they found
it in rats, that the pineal gland produces it,
which is like, that's the third eye of Eastern
mysticism. That gland actually, in rats, they've
proven, produces DMT. And they think it does
so in people, too. You know, once I did, I wanted
to do it again and again and again. And they
said, you shouldn't do it too much, Mike. But
I was like, man, I got to, you know, grasp what's
going on here. Why am I feeling this? Why did
this, in a weird way, like, humbled you? I don't
think you should listen to the people who say
you shouldn't do it too much. I think you should
do it as much as you want. That's what I agree
with, too. Yeah. I agree. You can handle it.
If you can handle being like Tyson, you can handle
doing DMT a few times. DMT, yeah, that's where
I think I'm going. I think I'm going in that
direction. Well, I mean, it's not something you
should do all day, every day, but you can learn
a lot from it. And it's very beneficial and very
strange that it's illegal. You know, it's illegal.
Yeah, I noticed that. Even though Terrence McKenna
had a joke about it. Because your body's making
it, so everybody's holding. We all have it. You
know, it's illegal, but it's like making blood
illegal. Everybody has it. Isn't it wild where
they go to Senora Desert and they find these
toads? Yeah. Yeah, I've never experienced it
from the toad. I've only experienced it with
the way they extract it. Yeah, they grab them
and they squeeze it. It busts its pimples and
it busts it on a glass or mirror and then they
take it off and they let it harden. Yeah, they
let it dry in the sun. They scrape it off with
a razor blade. Yes. I've only had it synthetically
made in a laboratory. You used to be able to
buy it online. You used to be able to buy like
a fucking can of it, like this big, enough to
get like a whole state high. You just buy it
online. It was totally legal. Incredible. Yeah,
it's weird. It's bizarre that it's illegal. Well,
they would say not for human consumption. I don't
know what the fuck you're doing with it if you're
not using it for human consumption. But you used
to be able to buy it. I've never felt anything
like that before. No, nothing like that. Makes
me not want to do anything. Nothing else can
supersede that. How long ago did it happen? Around
two months ago. Yeah. Did you write down what
happened after it happened or did you record
it? No, I wish I did. Yeah. I wish I did. Yeah,
me too. Like it goes away like a dream, right?
It comes off, you know, you're so scared. You
know, it starts off like this to me. Like, no,
no, no, yeah. That's how I start. No, I don't
want to be this. I say, hey, I want this to stop
now. And the guy's like, hey, you're on the ride.
And I'm like, no, no, no, yeah. I love it. I
love you. I love you. I love you. Yeah, you love
everybody. Yeah, so spassed out. Yeah. Did you
have a hard time letting go? At the beginning,
I was fighting it. I was saying, stop. I wanted
to stop now. Just stop this shit now. Stop. And
the guy was like, hey. I'm like, I can't do it.
Got to go for the ride, dude. And it was like,
oh, man. It's like I'm dying. Things are going
in my face. I'm seeing the Aztec things. I'm
seeing toads. I'm just seeing weird animals and
things. It's flying. It's like another chamber.
It's boom, flashing. Boom. And you're gone. It's
like a rocket. You're taking off. Boom. Yeah,
it's beyond your imagination. Yeah, that's inconceivable.
Can't even explain it to no one. Well, I'm hoping
that they start with psilocybin because I know
MAPS, they're doing some great work with that,
trying to get these things legalized, especially
they're doing MDMA studies with veterans and
people with PTSD and they're having great results.
They're moving into psilocybin. They would love
to get psilocybin legal, and it's up for ballot.
I think it was in Oregon. Is that where it is?
I think Oregon is up for legalization this year,
and it may be eventually in California as well.
How are you going to go do with that? It should
be legal. It doesn't kill anybody. It's not a
bad thing if they regulate it, if they make it
for therapeutic use and just set up centers where
experts can show it. But they shouldn't make
it prohibitive for people to own it or even grow
their own. It's not a bad idea to set up places
where people can do it under a professional's
care, a shaman's care, a physician's care. That's
a good idea. But making it illegal is a bad idea
because it helps a lot of people. You know, people
think of it as a party drug. They think you're
going to do mushrooms and freak out and go fucking
run around naked. Ah, what's on mushrooms? Ah,
you do mushrooms. I love mushrooms. I love mushrooms.
Well, psilocybin and DMT are very closely related
chemically. All those really potent psychedelic
drugs are very closely related. They all break
down in some similar path inside your brain and
give you that weird ego -dissolving experience.
Yeah, most of the drugs you do, most of them...
Ego enhancing. Right. Like Coke. Yeah, you're
like, the baddest mother. You're just gone, man.
Yeah, you know, you've never had coffee. I've
never had Coke. Never? Never. Oh, man. Bad exchange,
huh? No, you didn't miss out on nothing, man.
Yeah, that one I ducked. When I was in high school,
my friend's cousin used to sell it. And he wasted
away to nothing. Him and his girlfriend would
hang out in the attic, never come out. They would
just sell Coke and watch TV. It was bad. It was
like a vampire bit him. Oh, man. He came up.
Once you get in that kind of vicious cycle, it's
a wrap. Yeah. Yeah. So I ducked it. I ducked
it early. Never did Coke. Man. When was the first
time you did Coke? I don't know. I was a kid.
11, 12. Shit. I got involved with drugs early
in life. Wow. That's crazy. 11, 12. Yeah. I was
still living in Brownsville, Brooklyn when I
first did cocaine. Wow. That's a crazy age. Listen,
I would never let my children, I have a 10 -year
-old daughter and eight -year -olds, I would
never let them live the life that I live. I would
hate that. I would always fight so hard. I never
want them to be in the environment that I grew
up in. Yeah, of course. Well. you have the benefit
of having gone through it. No one else could
ever understand how difficult any of your life
must have been for you. It's got to be one of
the harder things. When you did that documentary,
it's an amazing documentary. You're very honest.
You're very honest, and you're very open about
all your experiences. And the one thing I took
away after that, like, no one can understand.
You could hear a guy talk like this. I could
hear you say these things. I could see the videos
of your fights. I could see the videos of your
experience. But to understand the life that you
lived, it's impossible. It's just a guess. It's
like a guess for someone like me from the outside.
It's just really interesting. I used to look
at it and think about this young kid from Brooklyn,
New York, comes to Custom Auto. At 13, 12, you
know, and all of a sudden, I have a low self
-esteem. This guy gives me this big fucking ego.
You know what I mean? I live by the rules of
that ego, and I've accomplished so much. And
a dominator ego. Yeah. You're set to have confidence.
Oh, all about destroying people. Yeah. Just anybody.
You could be a lawyer. You're 200 pounds. I'm
staring you down. It was a weird environment
growing up that way. You know, because we as
people, we try to avoid fights. You know what
I mean? Right. From my instincts, we avoid fights
for all our lives. And just to be able to see
what you do, like you're a UFC guy, you're a
fighter. This is what you do for a job, a lifestyle.
That's pretty bizarre. But you were getting positive
reinforcement from thinking like that for the
first time in your life. Absolutely. Yeah. I
never felt like that before. It was like taking
a... a big drug that's going to lose you, boom,
you're the man. Then everybody's telling you
you're great. Yeah. For the first time in your
life. Never understood that. And you know what
else Custom Model used to do with me? He used
to take me to a hypnotist. He was a hypnotist
as well. Yeah, they used to go into the hypnotist
motions. What kind of shit do they make you do?
How they do it? You relax, you go under, you
totally... Focus on blackness, nothingness. Right.
You go under and you're just being this savage,
intelligent animal. You're just working. You're
going to do this. You're going to be a ferocious
animal. You're going to fight, put both hands
to the body. You're going to use your jab. You're
going to do this in a ferocious fashion. And
they seeked all that in me as I was younger.
And you were like 12, 13 years old? Yeah. Wow.
So they're putting you under and just teaching
you that mindset. Yeah. Whoa. Did he give you
any advice on how to shut it off? No. No. He
was probably like, I don't have any time. He
was probably like, I don't have any time. The
kid's 13. How old was Koss at the time? He was
like 71. There's no time. There's no time. I'm
not going to teach him the off switch. Just hit
the gas. That's what it was. The gas. We're going
to destroy these guys. These guys are in our
way. You know what I mean? Greatness, glory.
It's one of the hardest things that many fighters
that I've watched over the years have the problem
of shutting it off, like turning it on and living
like that and just wanting to be a dominator,
but then learning how to be a father, learning
how to be a friend. Man, my first lifetime with
children and stuff, trying to do this stuff,
man, I felt so disastrous. You know, it was just...
I had no idea what I was doing to. I had no idea
what arena I was stepping into. It was just disastrous.
I find out I spend most of my adult life now
apologizing to my kids. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I can imagine. I'm being such a horrible
father. Do you think they understand the shit
that you were going through? They understand
that you didn't understand how to live? No, I
don't understand. Try to basically make sure
that part of my life is empty now. I live a different
life for my kids. Right. My family now. Yeah.
Well, that's beautiful. It's beautiful that you,
like Tom was saying earlier, you have a lot of
self -reflection. You've managed to look at your
life and find out what has value to you, what
helps you. You always have to do self -evaluation.
I'm just a strong believer in that. Yeah. Somebody
has to check you. You have to check yourself.
I agree. Yeah. Well, especially a guy like you
who's, you know, you've been checked. Your ego's
been checked. Your life has been checked. You've
had so many down moments as well as up moments.
You've had the full ride of experiences. I never
thought I would survive with my ego being checked.
I had no idea that that wasn't what it was about.
So you thought if your ego checked, you would
go away. Probably nothing without my ego. Wow.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it makes sense when you're
going through all that hypnosis when you're 12
and 13 years old. That's a crazy thing to do
to a kid because it was super effective. I had
no idea, but I wanted to do it so bad. I wanted
to succeed so bad. You could tell. You know,
I watched a video of you real recently. You were
about 16, 17 years old, and you were sparring
with some big guy who was a professional heavyweight.
And what was fascinating to me about it wasn't
just watching you move around when you were young
and still learning, but it was also you were
upset at yourself after it was over. You didn't
think it went well. And I was like. I don't remember
that. You don't remember? It was an interesting
video, man. You were like, it didn't go well.
I could tell it didn't go well. I was a sick
perfectionist when I was a kid. That's what I
was going to say. It seemed like it. Like you
were obsessed. That's my whole life. That's all
I did was look at box and watch box and read
about fighters. It was all about fighters. Fighters
were my gods. Fighter. Oh, you know that guy.
That's a fighter. I want to be around him. Be
that groupie. That's another amazing occurrence.
Imagine that you also knew Jim Jacobs and that
fucking fight library that guy had. That's all
I did was watch films all day. That's amazing.
This is pre -VHS, right? People had VHS, but
not many. Those fights weren't on VHS. No way.
Remember before, if you missed a fight, you weren't
going to see it again. Right, yeah. And Jim Jacobs,
he kept those things on a regular old projector
type thing. If you listen to the voiceover on
some of those old fights, it's Jim Jacobs. Yeah,
it's him doing commentary. On some of the old
fights that didn't have any volume to them. Now
you study all these guys all day and all night.
You study them. Yeah. It was through you that
I learned about a lot of fighters. When you would
talk about Jack Dempsey, talk about different
fighters from the old days, I learned about a
lot of those guys from you. I went back and watched
some of those tapes and now it's beautiful. Now
you can just get on YouTube and you can see whatever
you want, everything, see all of it. But to go
back and go back to my office in prison, if you're
going to see this. Yeah, exactly. I can't wait.
I want you to come by. To the ranch. I would
love to. I'm in. Productive. It's going to be
awesome. So you said 2022? Yeah. So four years
from now? Yeah, it's going to be pretty awesome.
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, the plans look amazing.
How long have you guys been working towards this?
Hey, listen, we had seen the property, and then
we purchased it, and we were just overwhelmed
with it. This is probably, I don't know, maybe
a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago. Are
you going to have a gym up there? Hey, I never
thought, but we will have because we'll have
the wellness center. Dude, how great would it
be if you taught like a boxing class every now
and then? I don't know about all that stuff,
but we're going to hang out there and work out.
Just a fun boxing class, like hitting the heavy
bag. Just something fun. You don't have to get
people beating each other up. Do you know how
much people would pay to smoke weed and come
learn how to box from you? That would be awesome.
They could smoke weed with me. That would be
cool. Do you smoke weed with people, just regular
folks? Yeah, I smoke weed, yeah. I always try
to get my wife to smoke with me, though. She
doesn't smoke? Yeah, she smokes. Only at nighttime.
She can't function during the daytime. Oh, right,
right. She does things during the day. Well,
I would imagine if I was a mother, it would be
very hard to get high because I'd get paranoid.
Yeah, of course she doesn't do it during the
day. At nighttime, it's different. Smoke a little
weed, relax. Did you ever do any fighting? I
did kickboxing and taekwondo tournaments. I was
pretty good at Taekwondo. I won a bunch of state
championships and won a few national tournaments.
When did you know you wanted to get physical
with another human being and do this stuff? You
can't be in the right frame of mind and want
to do this stuff. You've got to realize that.
I was very scared. People that do this stuff
are not in the right frame of mind. Yeah. And
dealing with fear drives you insane. yeah deal
with that drives people insane i was insane during
my career yes madly insane from fear yeah obviously
i never went through anything like the level
that you went through but For these full contact
taekwondo fights, I was always scared. But I
was scared before that. I was bullied. I moved
around a lot. I was a little kid. I was never
very big. And we moved from New Jersey to San
Francisco when I was seven, from San Francisco
to Florida when I was 11, Florida to Boston when
I was 14 or 13. So it's just always moving to
new schools, always dealing with new kids. And
I wasn't big. And I didn't know how to fight.
And I got picked on. And I didn't like it. So
I said, I want to. I want to figure out how to
fight. And so I started getting into martial
arts. And I just became obsessed with it. I did
it every day. I started teaching. I was teaching
at Boston University. I was teaching a Taekwondo
course when I was 19. I was competing from the
time I was 15. I just threw myself into it. It's
all I did every day. I worked at the school.
I was there every day. I had the keys. I closed
up. I opened up. And because of you, because
of hearing about you, when you were running in
the morning, when you knew that everybody else
was asleep, that gave you an edge, I'd go there
in the middle of the night and open up and work
out. I just wanted to just have an edge, you
know, and I listened to what you said. I said,
that's a great way to have an edge. I became
obsessed with it, but there was no future in
it. And then what happened was I went from Taekwondo
to kickboxing. And when I started kickboxing.
I started getting fucked up. Dudes were beating
the shit out of me. Cause I was realizing like,
I can't keep people at the same distance anymore.
Cause I didn't know how to use my hands properly.
Like I knew how to throw some punches a little
bit from Taekwondo, but it's not nearly sophisticated
as boxing or kickboxing. And so then I started
kickboxing training and then I started realizing
like, there's no future in this. Like, what am
I doing? I'm just getting my brains beat in,
you know, and I'm hard sparring too. The sparring
was rough. It was Boston style. put the gloves
on, beat the shit out of each other, figure it
out as you go along. Yeah, you ain't going to
learn shit. Figure it out as you go along. Figure
it out as you go along. So a lot of headaches.
But it was hard for me to shut that part of me
off, the part of me that just wanted to conquer,
the part of me that just wanted to win all the
time, to figure out a way to be more intense,
more driven, more focused. But when I did stop
fighting, it was a huge relief. The relief part
was worth the extra anxiety that I got. It was
worth it just for the relief of not thinking
about fighting all the time, not thinking about
when's the next tournament, when's the next event,
when's the next thing I'm doing. It was just
that weight. Well, for you, it had to be way
crazier because not only is it the weight, it's
the heavyweight championship of the world. I
always wanted to make my mentor happy. Yeah.
That's my goal, to make him happy all the time.
When he died, was it weird not having a person
like that in your life? Oh, man, it was so, man,
it was just emptiness. It was just, and then
people who we thought were our friends and that
we said we were going to be good to, they just
started, when he died, they just started going
in for the kill. You just want to grasp me for
means. Well, it seemed like you and Kevin Rooney
had a good combination at the beginning. When
he died, when Cuss died. We didn't know what
we were going to do. They were thinking about
getting rid of Kevin or something. I was thinking,
I didn't want to be with nobody else. Right.
I was comfortable with Kevin and the style and
the way we were working. I didn't want to be
with nobody else. I said, no, let's just keep
Kevin. Yeah, and Kevin was a great trainer, too.
Yeah, for me he was. Very well -respected trainer.
Yeah. It was a good relationship, like the way
it worked in the beginning it looked like. But
then, like all things, you know. Kevin used to
train me and then fight and I fight on his undercard.
Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. Wow. And this was all,
was he training you before Cuss died as well?
Well, yeah. How many years before Cuss died was
he holding mitts for you? Just a couple. But
he knew you well. Yes. He knew the style well.
Did he watch fights with you as well? Or were
you watching those fights by yourself? Every
now and then we watched a fight. Once we started
training with each other, we started watching
fights together. Because that was the other thing,
too. Your style, the way you would come out,
was so reminiscent of old fighters. When you'd
come out with no socks on, black shoes. That
was wild. My mind was thinking it was all about
gladiator and being tough. I look at it now and
say, look at that silly little kid. Why does
that silly kid think he's tough? I don't think
this guy thinks he's tough. Well, you were tough,
man. I know what you're saying. I know what you're
saying, but you were. When you fought Marvis
Frazier on, what is that, ABC World of Sports?
Yeah, remember those days ABC had fights? I remember
watching that fight going, holy shit. That was
like being locked into a ring with a tornado.
That was wild days. Yeah, I thought it was a
tough kid. That was your peak. That was when
it was peak scary. You were coming up and everybody
was just terrified. It was just a wild thing
to watch, man. To be a part of it, to be you?
Yeah, I wanted to make my mentor real happy,
though. That was my main goal in fighting. It's
a powerful goal. Yeah. Did you ever try to go
back and get hypnotized after all that's over
to try to maybe calm down that part of your mind
that they turned on? No, I never did. The toe,
I think, helped me out. The toe? Yeah, that stuff
would help me out. Yeah. Did weed help you out
at all? Pretty much. Yeah. You know what I mean?
But I had to do it every day. I had to do it
all the time. Right. I had to do it all the time
then. Yeah. If I went to another country and
I didn't have my weed, I'd be insane. I'd say,
what? No weed? I got to be here a couple of days?
A week? A month? Get the hell out of here. Yeah.
Yeah. The rest of the world will catch up eventually.
They'll catch up eventually. It's slowly happening.
We were talking about it before the show started
that just a few years ago, if you smoked weed,
you felt like you were a criminal. You had to
hide it all the time. Look around, man. You're
looking around like a cop. I still like that
in New York. I was in New York recently. We had
to hide weed. That's crazy. Still illegal there.
I'm like, how is this New York City in 2019?
So stupid. It just doesn't make any sense. Especially
when we're both high right now. Man, the kite.
It's fine. Everything's good. Having a nice conversation.
Beautiful. I agree. I totally agree. How many
fights did Jim Jacobs have in that library? I
don't know. Thousands of them, man. I watched
thousands. Guys fighting in the 1890s, watched
them all. Wow. Who were standouts for you outside
of the standouts? Obviously, Jack Johnson. Yeah,
he was awesome, too. He was just amazing. He
was ahead of his time fighting. Way ahead of
his time. There's also little guys like Tony
Cavanaugh, Harry Armstrong, Bonnie Ross, guys
like that. Benny Leonard. These guys are just...
They evolved boxing to the level where it can
evolve to now. They were superstars in their
time. Who was that crazy middleweight who went
up to fight Jack Johnson and dropped him? Yeah,
Stanley Ketchum. That's right. He's a badass.
That motherfucker could punch. Yeah, he's a badass.
He got killed. Yeah. By a guy's... Yeah, because
he stole this guy's girlfriend. Yeah. He was
a tough guy. What are you going to do about it?
Beat the guy up. He disrespected the guy. And
the guy came back and shot him. Yeah. Stanley
Ketchum was a real wild and crazy guy. Well,
most of the greats were. Yeah, he was wild. Well,
feel it. It doesn't fit anyone. Well, when you
talk about your life and the way you were living,
if you go back to most of the greats, like Roberto
Duran, he was a wild motherfucker, too. He was
beautiful. It was beautiful. He just had rhythm
with it. Yeah. There's so many of the greats
were just wild, wild people. I think it's that
fear that brings that out of you. Yeah. But then
there were some greats that were just real disciplined.
Like Marvin Hagler is my best example for that.
When I was a kid growing up in Boston, Hagler
was the middleweight champion of the world. And
I used to see, they used to have video of him
running. They played it on the news. He was running
on the, there was the dunes, sand dunes in Cape
Cod in the winter, freezing cold, with a hoodie
on, running, screaming war. War! Crazy, right?
Oh, it was amazing. Marvin Hagler made you want
to just get out of your house and go running
in the snow. He was so disciplined. That was
the thing that I always got out of watching him,
wasn't that he was so wild. He was so mentally
strong. He had an iron chin, and his discipline
was impeccable. He was just constantly training,
never out of shape, never got fat, always doing
sit -ups and push -ups. Ferocious animal, right?
So his body? Yeah. Oh, he was chiseled. He was
a machine. That fight with Tommy Hearns, that
was one of the greatest middleweight encounters
of all time. Chaos. I mean, it's skillful. We
didn't know what was going to happen. We thought
they were going to stop the fight. I thought
they were going to stop the fight. Tommy Hearns
was going to be the winner. It's skillful as
they were. They decided to just smash. Just get
into the center and fucking fight. There was
no, like, Tommy Hearns could try to use his jab,
box him to the outside. You're not going to keep
Marvin Hagler off you. You can't keep him off
you. If you don't try to take him out, it's almost
crazy. You can't box him like that. You know,
Sugar Ray Leonard did that, but they weren't
at their prime then. Yeah. I wanted to see those
two guys in their prime just go at it. Yeah,
Sugar Ray Leonard, especially when he fought
Hagler, he fought Hagler smart. Stay the fuck
away. I heard the craziest rumor. Tell me if
this is the craziest rumor. That Marvin Hagler
decided to bet on himself for that fight, knew
that he was going to lose, they had it set up,
and then retired and went to Italy. That's a
ridiculous rumor, right? Hey, I don't know what
anybody did, but I never heard anything like
that. You never heard that one? No. But he's
one of the most interesting end of careers ever.
I heard rumors that he didn't fight the fight
that he should have fought, that he knew he should
have fought. Right. You know what I mean? Well,
the rumor was he went to Italy because the mob
said everything. Yeah. Something to that effect.
He went to Italy and became a giant movie star.
But he's the only guy that I can think of in
recent memory that literally went out on top.
Had this unbelievably close fight with Sugar
Ray Leonard, who a lot of people think he could
have won that fight. Very close decision. And
then says, that's it. See ya. I'm done. Everybody
comes back. It's hard not to come back. I guess
at one time, that's your whole life. I'm surprised
I never came back. That was just my whole life.
That was my whole identity. But when you did
retire, and when you retired in the ring, that
was the most honest retirement speech I've ever
heard a boxer give, ever. He's just like, I don't
have this in me anymore. No, it just wasn't there
anymore. That was pretty bizarre for myself,
you know, because this is what I based my life
on doing. When I first started doing it, I said,
I'm going to dedicate my life to this stuff.
You get to see that it's not even, it's no longer
going to happen. It was pretty weird. When did
you know that you didn't want to do it anymore?
I've known years before that, but I was still
being very successful. Yeah. Like when? Like
what year? Do you remember around when you started
thinking it? I remember. Probably around, what,
the 2000 area. So by the time, that's post -Holyfield?
Yeah, after Holyfield. And you had it done too
much. I was just winning them, just winning,
beating guys. You know, guys get hit or something,
and some guys be so scared. Yeah. What did you
have in mind? Like, that's the hardest thing,
right? To swing from that to the next thing.
Like, how do you take this crazy, exciting life?
I don't know. I decided, listen, let me just
get high for a while and figure this out. That
was the plan? Yeah. Let me party for a while
and figure this stuff out. What did you figure
out? That I wanted to do other things. So I started
my wife. She arranged for me to be this thespian
on stage. She created the live show? Yeah, yeah.
That's a brilliant idea. Because you're also
the first fighter that ever did that. Because
many fighters have great stories, but very few
of them have ever, I don't think anybody besides
you, has ever put it into a theatrical thing.
Man, it's just amazing. We did it in Monaco.
We did it in Rome. We did it. amount of various
places. And I just can't believe that people
want to see that stuff. Well, like I said, the
documentary was amazing. So people want to hear
the live version of you talking about it and
to see you live in person. Because the first
time we did it, the first time we did it on Broadway,
that is, we were really not sure about how it
was going to turn out. So we invited all of our
friends. We had tickets and gave all to our friends
and people we love, like names, and we brought
them to the show. And so when we started, they
started laughing. Everybody started laughing.
I ran to my wife. I ran up to her and said, baby,
what's going on? Is everything okay? I didn't
want the show to be a comedy. It turned out to
be a comedy. It was supposed to be a hard, gritty
show about a tough guy that made it through his
toughness. And it just came up about me just
talking about myself, how much a smuck I am.
You know what I mean? And they loved it. Well,
I think that was part of it. It's because everybody
knew you were this tough guy, but they didn't
know that you could be so self -deprecating and
have so much fun with it all. You know, that's
why people loved it. Yeah, they're doing the
writing for my movie and stuff. I haven't seen
it in a day, but it's going to be pretty wild.
Who's playing you in a movie? I don't know. Various
people, but most likely Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx.
He could do it. He could do anything. He could
do anything. Anything. That guy could be the
fucking president of the United States. He could
be a pilot that goes to the moon. He could do
whatever the fuck he wants. I want him to do
it, yeah. He could do whatever he wants. He'll
probably bulk up like crazy, too, to do it. It's
going to be really wild. Yeah. Jamie could pull
it off. Michael Jai White pulled it off. Huh?
Michael Jai White. You can't do it like Jamie,
I don't think. I don't know. I thought he didn't
do a bad job. A lot of people didn't like what
he did, but I thought he did a good job. I think
he did a good job. I loved him in Spawn. He's
a great guy. Do you know him well? No. He's a
great guy. Great guy. Very smart guy. Very humble
guy. Really, really intelligent. And a great
martial artist, too. Michael Jai White. He was
a Kilkishin karate black belt. He's a bad motherfucker.
Did he fight in the UFC? No. When he was fighting,
there was no UFC around, but he did a lot of
karate tournaments and stuff. He's very good.
I've watched him train before. He's legit. Very
legit, but like I said real real good guy, but
yeah, I agree Jamie Foxx man Jamie Foxx is on
another planet he's just got this level of competence
and skill and Artistry in his singing and his
comedy and his acting he could do anything he
could play you He's gonna hang out with you for
a while. I don't know what he's gotta he's gotta
hang out with you Pretty awesome, he's gotta
hang out with you gotta absorb it, right? Yeah,
let's see how that works out. Are you going to
be his consultant? Are you going to be like,
bitch, I would have never said that? I would
like to say that, yeah. I'd like to be a consultant.
But for some reason, they have their Hollywood
ways of doing things. Yeah. You know what I mean?
They make it come out Hollywood -ish, I guess.
Because some things, it's just really wild how
they try to switch it to appear presentable.
Right. Yeah, they try to change the story. And
no one else I realized, too, from a Hollywood
perspective, some things are real. It's just
still unbelievable. Yeah, by itself. Yeah, some
things are really unbelievable. Yeah, well, do
you know that movie, Foxcatcher? Did you know
that movie? Yeah, the wrestling movie. I remember
that story of the young guy. I remember that.
Yeah, that guy, Mark Schultz. It was Dave Schultz
and Mark Schultz. Dave Schultz is the one who
got murdered. Mark Schultz is the guy who fought
in the UFC. Here's what's crazy about that movie.
I don't know how much of that movie is accurate.
I don't know. I wasn't there. But what I do know
is the one thing that I for sure know happened,
they changed. When he fought in the UFC, Mark
only fought in the UFC once. He fought a guy
named Big Daddy Goodrich. Gary Big Daddy Goodrich.
Black guy, right? Yeah. I know who that is. Big
black guy wore a karate gi and then eventually
got rid of the gi later in his career. But he's
a legend. Big Daddy's a legend. In the movie,
it's not Big Daddy. In the movie, he's fighting
some white guy. It doesn't make any sense. They
changed who he's fighting. It's a historical
event. It's like if you, for whatever reason,
they decided to not have you fight Trevor Burbick.
You fought someone else. You fought Jerry Cooney
for the title or something. That would be bizarre.
They'd be like, why would you change history?
I hope they don't do nothing. I can't want to
do it if they do something like that. They did
it with the UFC when they did it with Foxcatcher.
Right, but it doesn't make it any better. That's
what's crazy. It doesn't make the movie any better
to have him fight a Russian guy. It doesn't make
any sense. It would have made it better to fight
Daddy. Yes. Because he's known in the UFC. Especially
for people like me that are in the audience that
go, oh, look, look who's playing Big Daddy. How
do you do it, Big Daddy? Big Daddy's tough. He
took Big Daddy down at will. Yeah, he did whatever
he wanted to him. He's Mark Schultz. He was a
motherfucker of a wrestler. I mean, him and his
brother were savages. They were savages. They
were just made out of steel. What was the deal
with that guy? How did they hook up with that
guy? The guy was really, really rich, and there's
no money in amateur wrestling. And these guys,
a lot of them are really struggling. When they're
trying to make the Olympics team, I mean, they're
getting by, barely. They barely have enough money
for healthy food. And they need sponsors. And
sometimes they get sponsors, like a rich guy
who owns a business. You know, he loves the Olympics.
He loves wrestling. Maybe he wrestled in college,
and he'll take care of them, maybe get them some
vitamins, maybe sponsor them with the... They
have various people that help them with their
training and their food. But this guy came along
and said, look, I'm going to build a gigantic
facility to create the best wrestling program
and pay you guys all money to come and train
here. And they couldn't help it. It's like they
were poor. They didn't know what to do. I understand
that. Yeah. And he was a guy who was like a trust
fund guy. He got all his money from his family.
And he was just some crazy rich asshole. And
he wound up shooting one of them. Yeah. That's
what it is. I mean, like you said, the story
itself is fucking crazy enough. The actual story.
They didn't have to change anything of it. So
I know they changed that part of it. So who knows
what else in the movie they added or changed
or fucked with. They fucked with something they
didn't have to fuck with. They went Hollywood
with it in a way that they didn't have to do.
So it makes you question all the other things
that happened in the movie. That's pretty bizarre.
So for you, they can't do that. Your life is
crazy. Insane. You know what? I was saying to
myself, do I really want to do this stuff, man?
Do I really want to go on the screen with my
life and be sincere with these people? I said,
do I really need that? I've been thinking about
that recently. Do I really need this stuff? And
this cannabis business is getting ready to pop
off and do really well. I'm saying, I don't really
need it. That we need this money. It's not going
to hurt you. It's not going to hurt you. It's
going to help you. Anything helps you at this
point. You're so honest that anything that you've
done in the past that you're embarrassed about
or you're shameful of, it just makes, it's just
better. It's just better for you. It's like you
made mistakes. People can learn from them. These
are beneficial. So watching someone like you
talk about your life is beneficial for people
because you learn. how you can overcome these
experiences, how, how bad things can be for you.
You learn how bad you can fuck up and people
need to see shit like that. It's good for, it's
good for civilization. It's good for our culture.
I think so. And plus a guy like you who was,
like I said, when I was a kid, you were the fucking
man. I mean, you were the fucking man to have
a guy like you be self -deprecating, explaining
and laughing about things. It makes it even it
sinks in more. It's like you were saying what
we were saying about custom model, that his wisdom
is sunk in. Like he was the gravel in his voice
and the intensity in his eyes and the wisdom
in his words. It sunk in. I remembered his quotes
for years afterwards because he lived so much,
because he had so much. And that's the same thing
with you, man. When you're talking about your
life experiences, people listen. They take it
in because they know you lived an extraordinary
life. So they better not fuck this movie up.
Yeah, real extreme. As extreme as it gets. What's
more extreme other than a soldier? Those are
the only people that live a more extreme life.
First responders, soldiers, firemen. Police officers.
Wow. Yeah, that's it. I mean, they're seeing
death and violence every day. Other than them,
you probably live the most extreme life ever.
Who the fuck can relate to you? Do you ever get
together with other, like, world -class pro boxers
that have... No, but the guy that do get into
it, the guy you talk about, the veterans and
stuff. Yeah. They be telling me weird stuff,
you know? Oh, man. Yeah, talk to SEALs about
their time deployed. I'm surprised they don't
take themselves out. A lot of those guys... Mm
-hmm. Yeah. They're going dark side. Well, a
lot of those guys are finding some relief in
the same things that you found relief in. They
find relief in DMT and other psychedelics, mushrooms.
I think that could be a great benefit to a lot
of our veterans. I believe that 100 % too. I
don't know why they don't want to dabble in this
stuff. Yeah. What do you think would have happened
to you if you got a hold of that stuff while
you were in your prime? I don't know. I don't
think maybe I want to be a fighter then. Yeah.
Maybe I wouldn't want to be a fighter. Damn,
DMT might have derailed it. Yeah. I might want
to love everybody. You know, that's what it makes
you feel like. When you come out of it, you say,
I love you. Yeah. If they love everybody. Yeah.
Well, my hope is that with great organizations
like MAPS, that one day people will be able to
see things, like everybody will be able to see
things the way you do. And that we'll all have
this understanding of what these things are.
They're tools that can help us. All these things,
including marijuana. It's a tool to help us.
You could abuse any tool. You could abuse any
tool there is. You could take a hammer and hit
yourself in the head if you're stupid. You could
abuse anything. But you could also use it and
build yourself a beautiful house. And with cannabis,
you could use it. It makes you a nicer person.
It does. It makes you more. I feel more vulnerable.
I have more of a sense of community. I'm always
hugging people when I'm high. I want to hug everybody.
I agree. It's a better feeling. Yeah. You know
what I mean? It makes you feel kind. I agree.
I like feeling kind. What is it like for you
to watch boxing these days? It's not my life
anymore. You don't watch it at all? Did you watch
Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder? No, I didn't watch
it. Oh, it was a great fight. I was in the air
flying when they were fighting. Oh, really? Yeah.
You didn't watch any of the highlights or anything?
I saw some of the highlights, yes. How crazy
is Deontay Wilder's power? Good stuff. Crazy,
right? Because he's built so strange. How incredible
is Tyson's chore? Incredible. Incredible. And
gets up and wins the rest of the round. That's
what's really incredible. It's amazing. Amazing
fight. Yeah. So you don't follow any of it today?
You know, that's part of my life. I've got mixed
feelings with that part of my life. Right, right,
right. You know what I mean? A lot of stuff that
I don't like about myself and stuff. Right. I
try to forget that stuff because I'm on a whole
different pattern. Yeah. So even watching other
people box. I don't even watch nothing. I try
to stay away as much as possible. So watching
other people box makes you think about yourself
when you're fighting. Reminds you of it. Kind
of, yeah. Yeah. I always say these guys are so
much nicer than I was. You know what I mean?
These are cool guys, man. Yeah, right? Yeah,
there's no one out there today that's got that
mean, vicious persona anymore. Yeah, these are
nice guys. Yeah, when you were in the ring doing
a post -fight interview saying you wanted to
eat your children, you wanted to eat someone's
children, I remember saying, this is the craziest
fucking post -fight interview. It was about Lennox
Lewis, right? Yeah, he's a madman. What's wrong
with me? I'm just a madman. It was amazing. It
was amazing. For the story, for the time, I mean,
look, what it was was... When we saw Rocky III.
right and mr t was was challenging you know uh
rocky and he would say all that crazy shit about
what he was going to do my prediction pain that
was beautiful it was beautiful what you did is
you took that and just cranked it up to 11 and
threw gasoline on it and lit it on fire you just
took that kind of ferocious shit talking yeah
i look at some of those um press conferences
a long time what i'm saying is that i would never
talk to anybody like that you know it's just
such a different world now my world is so different
now do you feel when you watch that stuff that
you feel almost like like, trapped by that past,
like, that you have to acknowledge it and you
don't even acknowledge it anymore. Yeah, I'm
almost a little bit like, I don't want to be
involved. I wish that never happened. Yeah, yeah.
But it kind of had to happen for you to be who
you are now. Yeah, because people are... This
is the real reason, right, Joe? People still
love that guy. Yeah, yeah. People love that.
I didn't like that guy that much. So I'm conflicting
with people that like that guy and me living
my life that I'm living now. Yeah. Well, people
love that guy because that guy gave them a drug,
and that drug was excitement. Like, you turn
on the TV, like, oh, shit, here we go. Michael
Spinks, Mike Tyson, here we go. And boom! Oh!
That's what people wanted. They wanted that excitement.
They knew some crazy shit was about to go down.
Unpredictable. No one knows what's going to happen
in a fight. Is it going to be a right or a left?
Is it going to move right? Is it going to move
left? How's it going to work out? You don't know.
How long can sphinx last? You don't know. And
everybody was excited. And that's what you brought
people. You brought people this chaotic moment.
You slapped down the money in the pay -per -view.
You got out your popcorn and you waited for the
rush. The rush of excitement. Those were crazy
days. Crazy days. Crazy. I hate to keep bringing
your head back to that, but just for me as a
kid growing up during that time, it was a big
part of my becoming an adult. It was during your
era, your era of dominance. I always look at
my kids and I think, wow, these guys are pretty
much... middle -class kids. They live their life.
They do what they want. They go to college and
everything. I would never want to put that pressure
on my son that you have to be the total best.
You have to dominate everybody. You got to be
the best that ever lived. You put that kind of
pressure on him. That's incredible. I would never
do that to them. Yeah, it would never work, probably.
I mean, I don't think a kid that grows up in
a loving household with supportive parents. Yeah,
you guys boxing for when you have nothing. Yeah.
When you do boxing when you have nothing because
that's a lot of... That's a lot of dedication.
That's a lot of pain. That's a lot of aggravation.
You know what I mean? It really is discovering
who you are. But you must be able to take pride
in the fact that your children don't ever have
to do that. Oh, and that's why I took the punches
for they wouldn't have to do that. I had my first...
My husband's son is 16. He wanted to be a boxer.
I saw you working with him. You have to get out
of here. You have to get out of here. You're
stupid. You go to private school. You want to
be a boxer and stuff? You travel, you go to European
trips, you do your trips and all that stuff,
vacations. You want to be a fighter? Get out
of here. You're a joke, man. You're a joke, man.
And he's really serious. He's serious, man. I
don't want nobody. You want to go fight some
guy like me? Some animal? I don't want my kids
to go through that crap. That's degrading, some
guy like that beating on you. Yeah. That's the
thing, is the fuel that you had, the burning
inferno inside you. You can't replicate that.
They don't understand that. They don't, I don't
know. You know, a lot of stuff inspires, shame
inspires a lot of success. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
They don't have to deal with that kind of shame.
Right, right. Shame, pain. Exactly. Feeling of
being left out, feeling of not belonging. If
I do this, I'm going to be, everybody's going
to love me. Yeah. Crazy feeling. Imagine to get
people, you want to be accepted so badly. Yeah.
Imagine that. It's going to be accepted. People
will look at you and all. What kind of mindset
is that? That's that ego. Won't people just look
at you? Yeah. You're a sick fuck. You're sick,
right? You're sick. Why? Won't people look at
me? Oh, man. Yeah, but it's beautiful that you
could describe it that way now. Like you've stepped
outside of it long enough to recognize what it
was when it was overcoming. I was a sick guy.
I used to read stories of Alexander the Great,
how this guy was a god. I said, wow, I want to
be like that. You know, this is crazy. It's just
crazy how you can inspire to believe that you're
more than what you are. Well, it was also those
feelings of conquering were giving you the first
success and good feelings of your life. And the
fact that they programmed you. I mean, that's
something that I don't think a lot of people
are aware of. The hypnotism. The hypnotism and
the putting those thoughts into your mind, which
were... Hugely beneficial. You could tap into
that mind zone right before you competed. They
gave you a clear path. They gave you a clear
path to use your fury with this very analytical
approach with perfect boxing technique and an
amazing mentor with incredible amount of knowledge,
and they just let you loose. You have to be enthusiastic.
You have to be enthusiastic. Yeah. Bad intentions.
Yeah, being bad intention and have enthusiasm
when you're fighting. You love every minute of
it. Yeah. Look at you, you're getting fired up
again. Yeah, because it's crazy. Do you work
out anymore? Nah, man, I keep away from that
stuff, man. You don't even like spin class or
anything? No, all that stuff reactivates my ego.
Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm going to get ripped
off if I reactivate it. That's the thing about
extreme winners. Extreme winners, that ego is
hard to snuff out. Yeah, if I activate my ego,
I'm going to lose in life. I'm going to lose.
I'm losing this cannabis. I'm going to lose everything.
What if you, like, go jogging? Can you go jogging?
No. I do my treadmill work and stuff. Oh, okay.
Treadmill. That's it. But if I start to think
that I'm special, if I get a glimpse, a glimmer
of that thing for me, whoa. Yeah. Look at you.
You're better than them. I saw a video you hit
in the bag recently. It was, like, a couple years
ago. Mm -hmm. You still hit the bag? Not anymore,
no. You still throw some bombs? I do, probably
for the camera and stuff. Yeah, that's what you
were doing. But I'm like, damn, you can still
move. You still have it in you, right? I don't
know. But it's in your body. I don't know how
to do that stuff again. Does it feel weird what
I was going to get to? If you were standing in
front of that heavy bag and you start rattling
off combinations, you start thinking, like, oh,
shit, I'm actually Mike Tyson. Like, I was that
guy. I am that guy who went through that. I am
the youngest heavyweight champion of all time.
I am that guy. That destroyed Tyrell Biggs. I
am that guy that knocked out Larry Holmes. I'm
that guy. I look at that guy as somebody that's
giving me a platform to help me forget about
that guy. Wow. Yeah. It's beautiful that you
have that mindset. It is. Because most people
who've accomplished as much as you have. They
don't want to ever let the past go. Oh, shit.
Let that go. Let it go. Let it go. Let it go.
But do you recognize that? That's a beautiful
part of your personality. You had one of the
most successful boxing careers ever, but you
don't want nothing to do with it. You don't want
to acknowledge it exists. You wish it went away.
In order to arrive to that next chapter in life,
you have to forget the chapter that came before
you and focus on the chapter ahead of you. Yes.
Yes. That's a great lesson. And coming from you,
that lesson, I think, is going to hit home with
a lot of people. You think so? Yes, 100%. 100%.
Because you accomplished so much. Because you
were the youngest heavyweight champion of all
time. Because you're the baddest man on the planet.
This big hero for a lot of people like me when
I was growing up. To see you now say... That's
then. I'm done. Nothing. I don't watch it. I
don't work out. I'm not even a part of that anymore.
I'm concentrating on my life right now, and I'm
happy, and I love people. You know, Joe, that's
really crazy. But when you think about this,
listen. You know, being that person, that guy,
that sent me to psych ward a couple of times.
That sent me to so many other places. The prison.
Wow, that sent me places. That guy is a trip.
Yeah. That's a trip. That guy had you in underwear
holding a tiger on a chain. Yeah, that's a trip,
man. What did you go to the psych ward for? It's
been crazy violent. Probably thought about hurting
myself or something crazy like that. What do
they do when they take you in the psych ward?
How do they treat you? I don't know. It's the
same way everybody treats me. This is Mike and
stuff. No, but I mean, how do they take care
of you? What do they do for you? I mean, how
do they take Mike Tyson and calm him down? Just
give you some fucking pills and some Thorzines
or something. Zone you out. Be like a zombie.
You're in a zombie swag event. Yeah. Yeah, that
is what they do, huh? Yeah. Just calm you down
medically, pharmaceutically. It's a zombie. You're
like a zombie. It's looking at television. You
don't know what's going on. Well, you know what's
going on, but you can't react to it. Jesus. And
then once they got you calmed down enough, they
go, all right, you can go. I don't know. I don't
think I ever get calmed down enough. I think
it was time for me to go, and I had to go. What
is a day in the life of Mike Tyson like now?
What is a typical day for you? I get up in the
morning, I go to my office. I'm a cannabis office.
We do deals and we get investments. And I come
home at 5 o 'clock and I go see my kids unless
I stay at the office later. And I come home and
I hang out with my wife and my kids. It's a really
bizarre life. We stay in Newport Beach now. Oh,
that's nice. It's very nice. It's very upscale,
but it's very quiet, too. Not like Las Vegas
at all. No. My daughter plays tennis up there,
so we're pretty much situated up there. It's
not like I said, baby, can't we move to Hollywood?
She said, no, we can't go to Beverly Hills. No,
because all of our tennis requirements are here
in Newport Beach, so we stay here. Newport's
nice, though. It's a good place. It's near the
ocean. It's got clean air. Yeah, we see the ocean.
It's just different for me. I bet. It's different.
Yeah. Did you like living in Vegas, though? I
love Vegas. It was always crazy and everything.
The fight did bring great parties, though. You
could always go to some great parties. That was
always great. So you've settled into this business
life, it seems like, pretty easily. You seem
to be enjoying yourself. Hey, it's something
that I want to do, and it's a fresh start. You
know what I mean? Yeah. Since doing the total,
you know what I mean, my main objective and everything
I've been embarking on and been involving myself
with, it's all been because of a fresh start.
I feel fresh. I feel new. I feel that nothing
can stop me, nothing can be in my way, and it's
just an awesome feeling. So this is from doing
that one DMT experience just sent you into this.
Well, I did it one time, but I did it many times
that day. Right. You know, but, yeah, this really,
I don't know what it is. I'm trying to figure
it out. But I've changed, but I just don't figure,
I just don't know how. Yeah. I describe it for
a lot of people, it's like resetting a computer.
You reset a computer, you got a fresh new desktop.
And there's only one folder on the desktop. And
that folder says, my old bullshit. Listen, stop.
I'm saying to myself right now, sometimes I'm
wondering, this new feeling that I'm possessing
right now, is it a real feeling? Does this stuff
really help? Or am I lying to myself again? Until
the next moment, that next feeling come to do
some drugs or to be with somebody else. What's
really going on? Is that feeling going to come
back? Because at this moment, does that feeling
feel like it's never coming back? It can never
come back if you decide that it's never coming
back. But you have to make that decision pretty
much every day. But you can never come back if
you want. Or you could slip into the old ways.
That's what a lot of people do. When a lot of
people fall into drug addiction, relapsing, when
they relapse, they're not physically addicted
when they relapse. Obviously, they're clean.
And then they decide to go back in. It's because
there's comfort in those old patterns. Because
this new way of life is just they get anxiety.
They feel like it's a lot of pressure to stay
clean. Oh, so explain it. I hate that. I always
hated that. Oh, wait, I never wanted to do drugs.
But then I do them again. I never wanted to.
I hate it. Oh, no, no. Yeah. What the hell? No,
come on. You understand what I'm saying? No,
I don't want. Yeah. Fuck, I don't want that.
And then once you do that, then you're going
all out now. You got the liquor there, the girls.
Oh, man. This is just a dark, dark, vicious cycle.
It's real dark. Yeah. It's self -destructive.
Yeah. It's all about. Ego -inflating and self
-deprecating, self -destruction. It also alleviates
you from the responsibility of improving. 100%.
That pressure of keeping it together, staying
sober, being disciplined, all that stuff. Once
it's gone, it's gone. Like, ah, I'm just fucking
crazy. I'm crazy. This is just what I do. I'm
crazy. And it's easy to fall into that trap,
and that's what happens to a lot of people who
relapse with drugs. I never want to go back to
that again. That's just a no -win situation.
That's one of the great things about marijuana
that people don't understand. They think that
a drug is a drug is a drug. They're all falling
under the same category. But you can use marijuana
and just be peaceful and not chaotic. And the
opposite, it'll make you think more about the
consequences of ruining your life. Can I say
something ridiculous? I got a foot in Detroit,
Michigan one time for Andrew Gulotta. I got tested.
I tested for marijuana. They charged me $300
,000. Jesus Christ. Finally, $300 ,000. That's
a lot of money. Where'd that money go? Who took
it? The commission. They broke it up. Yeah. They
charged it up and went and did coke with it.
That's what they did. Yeah, that's crazy. $300
,000 for some weed in your system. Now you're
selling it legally. Yeah, and this is just a
bizarre situation. I'm just going with this bizarre
world and see what happens. It's beautiful, man.
I never thought you could do this, sell marijuana.
I never thought I'd be in that business. I know.
At this stage in my life when it came at the
right particular time. I saw it online. I saw
Tyson Ranch online. I saw something on Instagram
or something. And I was like, that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. Why not, man? In this day and age.
I mean, look, everybody loves you. Why not? Why
not go into business? People never dreamt of
it. It's just a no brainer. People are going
to want to buy your weed just because they love
you. I want to distribute all over the world,
too. That's where it gets sketchy. Yeah. There's
some spots in Asia you don't want to bring weed
to. No. Singapore, you can get killed. Oh, yeah.
No, but that's some parts of the world that they
accept it. Yeah. I went to Europe to buy weed
before, and they were selling the plant. They
weren't selling the butt. They were selling the
plant. You had to buy the plant and wait until
the plant developed and make butts and all that
stuff. Wow. Selling the plant. I said, what's
that purpose? They wanted you to grow your own.
Yeah. That's the only way. So you were working
with a bunch of different growers. Explain how
you guys are setting it up. The whole thing,
we're working with other growers, but my main
objective is to be distributors all over the
country. And also the ranch where you have like
a destination. That's going to be our resort.
And that's where people are going to come. It's
going to be like, what's that big concert thing?
We're going to have our own concerts there. I
forget the name of it. Coachella. Coachella.
Coachella. It's going to be something to that
effect. Oh, that's awesome. So you're going to
do shows down there too? Absolutely, yeah. We're
going to do them again. We're going to do our
first show. When? Miguel is going to be our first
show in February. Oh, wow. Oh, that's amazing.
That's beautiful. But listen, man, I'm very happy
for you. I'm happy to see this. I'm happy to
see this transition in you. I'm happy to hear
about your experiences. And good luck, man. You
need to come by because I'm going to be presenting
at the Podcast Award. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's
coming up soon, isn't it? Yeah, are you going
to be there? No, I'm not going to be there. When
is that? Beat the hell out of me. They'll tell
me. Yeah. Do you know when that is, Jeremy? Somebody
sent it to me. I'm busy that night, unfortunately.
Yeah. So you have a podcast, too. Tell people
about that. Yeah. It's called Hot Boxin'. Hot
Boxin'. Yeah. Get it? Yeah, big time. Hot Box.
Weed. Get it? Boxing. Yeah, exactly. And we smoke
on our show, and we're having a good time. Yeah,
and you had Dale Earnhardt Jr. on? Yeah, he's
an awesome guy. He's a great guy. Yeah, he's
awesome. Did you get high with him? No, no, I
don't believe I did. No, I don't think he smoked.
No, I don't think he does either. He's such a
clean -cut guy. He's a super nice guy. Almost
too nice. You're like, are you real? Father was
a tough guy. Yeah. His father was a savage. Yeah.
Yeah. So tell people Tyson Branch. Tell people
how they can find more information. Well, you
can look up Tyson Ranch. Is it TysonRanch .com?
Yeah. Okay. TysonRanch .com. And you don't fuck
with any social media, huh? You don't mess with
that. I have people do that, but they tell me,
take a picture with this guy for you, get some
likes or something. I feel like I'm in third
grade or something, getting friends, trying to
make friends. I don't know what the hell I'm
doing. I feel like a smuck, man. It is ridiculous.
I feel like a smuck. That's it. Tyson Ranch official
on Instagram. Look, Damien, I'm on the book,
Dope Magazine. There you go. Damn. Well, listen,
brother, thank you very much for being here,
man. I really appreciate it. Pleasure being here,
man. I wanted to come to the show so much earlier,
but we just couldn't make it happen. We'll do
it again. We'll do it again. And let me know
when everything opens up. We'll be happy to promote
it for you, let everybody know. And anytime you
got something coming on, you want people to know
about it, let me know. Thank you very much. Thank
you. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you very much.
Mike Tyson, motherfuckers. All day. Woo! That
was cool. That was awesome.