"Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1532. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Entheogenic Research, Athletic Longevity, and Consciousness Exploration." Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan
Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by
night, all day. So a friend of mine, he's a giant
boxing fan, he sends me this text message. He
goes, dude, check this shit out. And it's you
training with Rafael Cordero. And I remember
looking at it and going, oh shit, what happened?
What happened? Because the last time you were
in here, you were talking about how you didn't
want to work out. Yeah. Because it would ignite
the ego. Hey, let's talk about that too. I was
discussing with my wife something about me being
overweight. You know, when you have to sometimes
want to complain to your wife, you want to take
it out on her in some kind of perspective. And
she said, well, why don't you just get on this
treadmill for 15 minutes a day? I said, ah, she
said, just 15 minutes. So it went from 15 minutes
a day to two hours a day. That's what you were
worried about. Yeah, exactly. But I was complaining
about my weight. I don't know. I guess I tried
on some clothes, and it was disastrous. And so
I was worried about my weight, and she told me
the 15 -minute route, and it went two hours a
day. And I just started losing weight, and then
somebody came. My brother -in -law said, hey,
Mike, man, I know you're not going to win, but
somebody said, would you fight this guy for like
$40 million or $30 million? I said, man, get
the fuck. I said, whoa. I said, oh, that's not
the thing. I was just going to say, get the fuck.
I said, whoa. And I said, well, who would they
like me to fight? And he said, one minute. And
then it's Bob Sapp. I said, okay. And so I'm
saying to myself, well, I know Bob. And I said,
and who? Because I know Bob is big and strong.
I said, who? One minute. How would they like
me to fight him? Can I fight him under the Marcus
of Queensberry rule? And he said, one minute,
Mike. He asked the guy. The guy said, yes. I
said, I'll fight him. Right? So it was Bob Sapp
was the first one that was brought up. Yeah.
So for people who don't know Bob Sapp, Bob Sapp
was a giant fighter in pride. At one time, he
was like 375 pounds. He was fighting all the
kickboxers. Solid muscle. With abs. It's incredible,
right? And it went from him to somebody else,
and another guy, and MMA, then this guy, and
then somehow, no, some other fighters, Vander,
then it went from, who else? It was another heavyweight
champion. It was just a bunch of guys up here
in a fight, and next thing you know. It came
down to Roy. And I'm like, I don't know what
the hell's going on. And then he signed the contract.
I signed the contract. Next thing you know, I'm
in the gym again, and it's disastrous. I'm trying
to get in the shape. I'm saying, did I really
do this shit? You know, you would probably know,
because if you're getting in shape and getting
conditioned, they're two different animals. They
don't even belong in the same workout. The vision
of working out. Getting in shape is just being
kind of fit. Getting in shape is able to fit
your clothes. That's getting in shape. Being
able just to fit your clothes. Being in condition
is being able to come outside of your soul. You
can't do that automatically. You're talking about
being in fighting condition. That's a rare state
and you can't keep it for very long. No, it is
just... People need to understand that, right?
The emotional state to prepare for that is awful.
Ooh, mind -boggling. Well, that's what I was
seeing when I was seeing you hit the pads. I'm
like, this isn't just working out. There was
something going on, man. When you were working
out with Cordero and you were ripping to the
body and throwing those hooks, I was like, this
is a man who's preparing to go to combat. This
is not normal, getting ready to work out shit.
That's why when I saw that video, I was like,
oh. Want me to tell you something about that
video? Yeah. I did that video and I was in bed
for a week. That was 30 seconds and I was in
bed for a week. And it's not funny because...
It made me realize that this is big boy shit,
okay? Big boy shit. This is big boy shit. There
it is right there. That wasn't really cool. That's
in the gym. That's now. The thing is, though.
That's now. That's now. That's going for five
and six rounds. That's now. But I'm talking about
before that 30 seconds. The first time I ever
did it, I caught. What's the shit you kill when
you can't walk? Oh, sciatica. Sciatica, everything
came. All that shit that came back that made
me quit boxing, all the pain started coming back.
So when you started training again, did you start
doing it slowly after that? Extremely slowly.
And then I started dabbing in alternative stuff.
Like what kind of stuff? Pryotherapy type shit.
cryo um stem cell research and therapy and some
other interesting stuff that i just don't know
and it's just beautiful stuff like what kind
of stuff i don't know hyperbaric chambers and
just everything everything everything to help
you recover it's really interesting It is. Well,
I saw you when you walked in today. I was like,
God damn, you look good. You look good, dude.
Like, your muscles look good. You look like you're
vascular. You look fit. And I'm starting to feel
fit. That's what's interesting. I know what they
do. Like, I think I'm in shape, and then the
next thing you know. You think you're in shape,
and then you start having, like, Ralphie will
start throwing punches at me. It's like a fight,
and I can't punch back. I got to avoid. And then
two rounds go by, and you say, whoa, I'm not
in shape. I'm hitting the bag six rounds. I'm
doing three or five rounds, six rounds. I'm jumping
rope. And then I do two rounds with somebody.
It's a whole different psychological preparation.
And whoo! How much time has gone since you first
started exercising? Like, when did it start?
So here we are with, like, August 23rd or something
like that? 22nd. 22nd? All right. When did it
start? It had to start something like April.
April. March, something like that. In the middle
of the lockdown. Yeah. So you just started just
training. And now here you are five months later,
four months later. How far away do you think
you are to being in, like, fighting shape? Oh,
Fighting Ship, when the time comes, like by November
28th, yeah. That's when you'll be ready. Exactly.
Now, why did you guys decide to move? You were
supposed to be in September, right? I believe
it was a viewing situation at the proper timing
for more people. For audiences, yeah. I believe
it was something of that nature. It's so exciting.
It's going to be awesome because it's going to
be me and everyone else that's involved, Eros
and everyone. and we're going to start off the
Legends Only League, and that's going to be really
breathtaking, especially starting off with me
and Roy. Yeah. And I'm looking forward to that
because we're going to have athletes from every
genre. It's an array of everybody who believes
in someone. They're all going to come back in
all fields. And this is going to be something
that me and Eros Intervention created together.
And I think this is going to be pretty awesome.
So Legends Only League will be like all sports,
baseball, basketball, everything. Everything,
yeah. Tennis. Imagine something crazy like we
did with Billie Jean King to have somebody, yes,
say, one of the arenas, somebody play mack and
roll and that kind of stuff. Right. Exhibitions
and stuff like that. Somebody like... A man of
war can play one -on -one with whoever, Iverson
or somebody. I mean, men of peace. Men of war
is the horse. Men of world peace. Yeah. No, it's
an amazing idea, but particularly for you. Like
seeing you hit the bag again and seeing you hit
the pads and get excited about it was very, very
interesting to me because I knew that you had
that thing in your head where you didn't want
to ignite your ego, and then you had this quote
that the gods of war reignited your ego. I read
that. I got so excited. Well, that's the excuse
I can use. That's a really great excuse that
I can use. But it was a great quote. It made
me excited. And when I'm seeing you training,
I mean, you know, there's some people that, you
know, everybody has opinions when something like
this happens. When a man is 53 now, you're 54?
Yeah, 54. And decides to fight again. As fit
as you look, like, why not? Why not? Why not?
You can do whatever you want. Why can't? I mean,
if you can go bungee jumping and ride a bull.
Exactly. Listen, impossible is nothing to somebody
that tries. Everything that someone said was
impossible. It's happened. Yeah. It certainly,
well, listen, in 2020, with all the ways of recovering,
all the things we know, the science. Our limitations
create impossible. Well, it's different now.
Limitations are different now. Exactly. So when
you, like that video when you were ripping the
pads and working out with Rafael Cordero, how
many, like how long into that was that? Like
how quickly did you get your speed back? Was
it right away? Was it right there? That was our
first day. That was your first day? That was
our first day. Let's try this out. That was our
first day. Wow. And after that day, I was in
the bed. I had to come get the guy to do the
fucking shots and electrocute me to get me back.
I had the sciatica hit me. I couldn't walk. I
was crying to my wife. And I was like, wow. And
I don't know why. After that, I should have said,
this is over. I'm not going to do it. But that
ego stuff said, hey, come on, please. Do you
feel like you felt in the old days? like when
i mean in terms of your mind like the enthusiasm
about this enthusiasm yes um sometimes um i feel
i say this is bush i can't be feeling this good
you know and then um I don't know. I think I
really am. I'm feeling good. I know the bag is
a bigger bag, 200 pounds. I said, well, this
bag wouldn't be moving like this if I'm not hitting
it kind of decently. No, you look good. I've
seen guys come back, and you see them working
out, and it looks sad, and it doesn't look good.
What's exciting about you coming back is how
good you look training. Why not? In this day
and age? But being a real fighter, this is what
you know. You see so many people that's in the
gym. Matter of fact, I've boxed people in the
gym that kick my ass every day. But then know
what's different? When you get them in the ring
and there's a light on them and people are eating
popcorn and drinking beer and they freak out.
So true. Yeah, the pressure. You're Mike Tyson.
Exactly. You understand that. Yeah, I know. If
anybody knows how to deal with that pressure,
it's you. Absolutely. But, you know, it's good.
But if you don't have the doubt, you're going
to have a lot of trouble. Right. You have to
have that doubt. Right. You have to have a little
bit of that. Now, this is this new phase of your
life where all of a sudden you reignited and
you want to compete again. This has got to be
fun. It is fun. Yeah, it is fun. I do say it's
fun, but it's still fun. It's apprehensive stuff.
It's apprehensive, but it's still, like you said,
it's fun. But it seems so exciting to watch you
train and get ready. To me, I'm like, fuck yeah.
What do you want a man to do? What do you want
a man to do? Just sit around, do nothing, just
wait, go for walks? Do whatever the fuck you
want. And if you could still do this the way
you're doing it, why not? Hey, um... I don't
understand it either, but I want to do it. I
don't understand. I just want to do it, and I
feel like I was born to do this stuff. Well,
you certainly were at one point in time in your
life, but you had moved on to a different chapter
of your life. You had completely stopped doing
that. You were doing the Tyson Ranch thing, smoking
a lot of weed. Have you stopped smoking weed
totally? Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much stopped?
Yeah, just going to stop. Wow. Wow, that's a
big change right away. But when you do something
like this, it's all about change. Listen, you
can't continue being a comedian if you're not
sharpening your psyche. Even when you're doing
it right here, you're practicing your comedian
act. You have to continue to practice. The more
you practice it, say if you practice it every
four years, you'll be better if you only practice
it for a month. So the more you do it, the better
you become. Do you feel like that now? in this
comeback that like you are only sort of scratching
your potential because like you're just getting
back into shape again a year from now you'll
be even better shape and you'll be more conditioned
to do what you want to do like you're you're
willing yeah yeah you're in this rebuilding stage
now And now that's exciting. Yeah. When you go
to your doctor, these people who have this alternative
stuff, and you see the development, you see the
healing process, and you say, come on, tell me
this. Why is this happening to me? Why a guy
like me who just got off drugs, who just gave
up his life and don't care about nothing, this
is happening to him? Since I married my wife,
all this good stuff started happening. I'm saying,
wow, what is this stuff all about? Whatever it's
all about, it's good. I'm like, take your money.
That's what I said. I said, take my money. I
want to watch it. Let's see it. And it's not
about money because the money's going to be in
charity. And it's just about doing something
good. And from that perspective, I used to like
feeling like I'm doing something good for somebody
more than myself. That's a beautiful part of
it, yeah, that it is going to go to charity.
But it's also an exciting matchup. And I'm watching
Roy work out too, and Roy looks fantastic. Roy's
going to always look fantastic. If he was 100
pounds overweight, he's going to look good. He
just really looks good when he does this stuff.
Roy Jones Jr. I mean, that's one of the things
that makes this fight so exciting. is that, you
know, Roy is, like yourself, one of the all -time
greats and still looks physically fantastic.
Like, you see him moving around and hitting the
pads. His hand speed looks great. And you can't
train with anybody that looks like him to do
that stuff. Well, he always had such an unusual
style, you know, with very few jabs. He would
throw left hooks instead of jabs. You know, I
mean, Roy always had, like, one of the strangest
styles in all of boxing. Well, it was strange,
but it was very effective. Super effective, yeah.
Very effective. Just incredibly hard to prepare
for, too, Try to find someone who... No one's
going to do that. No one can emulate him in the
gym. Now, when you decided on a fight and decided
upon... I heard that someone had offered you
Shannon the Cannon Briggs for bare -knuckle boxing.
No, no, it was just Tyson Fury. It was Tyson
Fury and quite other guys, but certain things
just happened, and it didn't happen. It was Holyfield,
it was Shannon, it was some other guys from MMA,
and then before he turned out to be the right
guy, I guess we did a survey. Roy popped up the
winner. Well, certainly a giant name. On top
of Holyfield, one of that. Yeah, Holyfield would
be a great one, too. But just having a guy like
that that has that big name, that is also an
all -time great, and that also wants to do it,
too, and to get the public excited. I mean, I
think it's a perfect fight to get the public
excited. So do you think that once you fight
Roy that that'll be it? Or do you think this
is just going to be the beginning of this new
chapter in your life? I believe this is just
going to be the beginning. Whatever happens,
happens. This is pretty interesting. Being out
here talking to you and knowing that the extent
of the wavelength of people that are going to
hear this stuff is pretty interesting because
now this is true. It's really going to no longer
in my head. I'm stroking it. It's real. It's
like, wow. Yeah, it's wow. Yeah, I can't wait,
man. I want to be there. I want to see it. Hey.
Down the street here. I'll come back. I forgot
the name of it. The Dignity Center. That's where
it's going to be? Yeah. And is it going to be
an audience? It can't be an audience yet, right?
I don't believe audience. I believe only, I don't
know, what am I going to say? Entourage? Right.
Small amount of people. Family fight group. And
this is going to be eight rounds? I believe so,
yeah. So how did you arrive on eight rounds?
Hey, listen. Beat the hell out of me. I wanted
to do the exhibition. I wanted to help the people.
I said, why do I got to eat fucking rounds? But
now I'm getting in condition and we're going
to do this stuff. Wow. Eight rounds gives you
enough time to work. Gives people enough time
to get excited about it. When you think about
an eight round fight, do you see yourself moving
into 10 rounds and 12 rounds in the future? We
don't know what the future holds, but we're looking
forward to just having fun and doing it for a
purpose or reason. Because people were talking
about you literally fighting for the title again.
Hey, I'm not interested in it. I'm just interested
in fighting for the title of giving. Okay. Okay.
So just doing this for good. Yes. So exciting
for you, but also generates a lot of positivity.
Exactly. Yeah. I love that. It feels soul -cleaning
for some reason. Because you're giving away charity,
that you're doing something good? Me doing it
for myself, it just doesn't do it for me no more.
Right. That makes sense. It doesn't do it. Yeah,
that makes sense. So it's both things. So you
get to excite yourself, challenge yourself, but
the good is all going to an excellent cause.
For I won't have in my mind, oh, I'm getting
paid. I just don't want to never have that in
my mind again. Yeah. I just never want to have,
oh, I'm getting something for what I'm doing.
kind of yeah somebody said and this was kind
of hilarious someone said hey i heard that they're
just gonna just mess around and that they're
not gonna go for the knockout i go do you know
who the fuck you're talking about i go you're
talking about mike tyson and roy jones jr do
you really believe that that two of the all -time
greats, once they start throwing hands, that
it won't get crazy? Well, of course it is, because
both of us are who we are, and we're going to
show our skills, and nobody's going to look stupid,
and it's just going to be interesting, I think.
Yeah. Do you have any other people in mind? Like,
do you have a game plan in mind, like, after
Roy, or are you just thinking only about Roy
right now? At this moment, only Roy, but it's
just some interesting people that we have that
I'm going to announce later. Now, there was some
talk of you and Roy way back in the day when
Roy fought John Ruiz and won the heavyweight
title. Yes, yes. Yeah. So what did you think
about that fight back then? I thought it was
really interesting because I couldn't use the
money back then. Me and Roy talked. We were in
Texas, and we went to Houston. We went to Houston,
we talked, and after we talked, we just went
out and chilled out. But it was interesting.
It never happened. I don't know what happened
to me. Something must have happened to me, and
it just didn't happen. That's one of those things,
right? There's always all these potential fights
that don't quite line up. Do you have other fights
in your head that were potential fights that
didn't line up that you wish did? No, everything
happened for the reason that it's happening now.
I'm excited about this fight. I'm excited about
this fight stylistically, too, because I always
liked that fight stylistically. It was so interesting.
Because you were just this unstoppable force,
and Roy was so fast and so slick. I'm just prepared
to do a lot of running and chasing. Yeah. That
was real difficult to get in condition for. Chasing
this little guy around the ring. So how many
days a week are you training now? Every day.
Every day. I have to send these off every day.
And what is a typical day for Mike Tyson right
now? All right, the day starts. As soon as it's
daylight from 5 .30, I'll do the four -mile run,
come back. What am I doing when I come back?
I'm back. I'm in the shower. From the shower,
I go downstairs. I let the birds out, fly the
birds, come back in. I have a machine where you
do the twist. App exercises. And I'll do that
probably 200 times on both sides. And I just
grab a bite. You know, I may have some. I'm eating
meat first. I may have some eggs instead of not
eating eggs. You were a vegan for a while, right?
How long were you a vegan for? A couple of years.
For a couple of years? Yeah, five years. When
did it stop? When did you stop doing that? I
don't know, not too long ago. So did you stop
because of the training or did you stop before
that? Yeah, I did stop because of the training.
It was because of what I wanted my body to look
like and the strength that I wanted to possess.
So you started eating meat, red meat, everything?
No, no, no. Elk and bison. Oh, red meat. That's
red meat. Yeah. Okay. Wild stuff. You eating
elk and bison? Dude, I want to give you some
of my elk. Really? Would you please? Fuck yeah.
Would you please, man? 100%. Did you kill it?
Yes. Yeah, I would like for you to do that. I'll
give you some from that elk right there. That
would be so awesome. Fuck yeah. That would be
so awesome, brother. I have three commercial
freezers in the back. I would love that. I would
love that. When I look at food, I don't look
at food like I used to look at it. I look at
it for what it's for. Yeah. You know what it's
for. To take care of the body. Exactly. Well,
that's the best meat, too. I realize that there's
things that are good for other people, like the
kale and the vegetables and all this stuff, the
blueberry. And then for me, it's really poisonous.
That stuff's bad for you? Yeah, that stuff's
not good for my blood type and my health conditions
and all that stuff. Kale? All that stuff's bad
for you? Oh, kale will kill me. Really? Yeah,
it's going to kill me. Kale will kill me. What
does it do? No, actually, death. Really? Yeah,
for me, I'm careless, toxic to my blood and everything.
So when you were a vegan, what were you eating?
Oh, man, nothing. My wife called me the miserable
vegan. She said, that's not veganism, what you're
doing, Mike. Just being miserable. No, I think
it comes down to when... And it's interesting
because I've done it when I was with Cuss. I
will sometimes just overdo it. Sometimes I go
for religious fast for 30 days. I might overdo
it. I might not eat for the whole day. Instead
of just for the daytime, not eating. And I might
for a couple of days just not eat, period. Don't
you think? But that's just. your championship
mentality, right? Like you're always pushing
yourself, even when it comes to something like
fasting. It has something to do with suffering.
I don't know what it is. I can't put my feelings
on it. It's about how much, how long can I suffer
more than this person or that person? Or could
this person do what I did? Right, right, right.
I remember you saying that too, about training,
that you would get up in the morning and train
because you wanted an edge. You wanted to know
that you were training while they were asleep.
Exactly. Yeah. I remember thinking that back
when I was doing martial arts. I remember reading
that and I'm like, I want to do that too. I'd
copy a lot of shit you did. Well, you always
have to have, and even if it's not so, you have
to have, and that's where delusion comes in because
delusion is only delusional when you don't accomplish
the goals of making your delusions a reality.
Right. That's what is delusional. Right. You're
just enforcing your mindset. Oh, yeah, to allow
those delusions to be the reality of your...
um assessment now when you're doing this and
you're getting up in the morning and running
does this like do you feel like you felt in the
old days do you i mean i don't mean physically
i mean the mind like you're preparing for war
again do you does this does this like reignite
those old thoughts the way you were when you
were the champ the way you were when you're on
your way to the title like this is a this is
a whole new way of life you know what's really
interesting That sometimes, period. It's not
real, but sometimes I struggle with the fact
of, wow, there's a possibility I can really hurt
somebody. Like you don't want to hurt them? What
do you mean, but you struggle with the possibility
that you could hurt them? That is sometimes,
it's orgasmic sometimes. Yeah. Like some fights,
like particularly like, Tyrell Biggs or someone
that you had problems with, someone that you
had animosity towards, so when you finally get
your hands on them. Hey, what does it mean when
fighting gets you erect? What does that mean?
It's a good question. It means you're getting
excited. Yeah. So that... That's going through
your mind right now. Well, that's how I get when
I was a kid. Sometimes I get the twinkle. The
twinkle. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying.
It's like you reached a state as a human being,
as a champion, as a ferocious fighter. You reached
a state of ability and of accomplishment that
very few humans will ever, ever touch and feel.
That's why I'm asking you, when you're running,
when you're hitting the bag, when that heart's
beating again, and you know who you are. You're
Mike motherfucking Tyson. So when you're doing
all this shit again, you're still Mike Tyson.
Those thoughts have got to be burning inside
you again. It's got to be pretty wild. I don't
know. It's wild, but I believe it's rightfully
so to be that way. I don't say I master it, but
I just know how to deal with it. I don't let
it overwhelm me. No. Well, of course not. It
gets you orgasmic. That's a strange thing to
say. Well, that's just what I wanted to find
out because you're really bright. And I thought
you would figure that out. No, I'm being very
serious. No, I know. I know you're being serious.
But, I mean, no one will understand that other
than you. Like, that's your mindset. But I think
that, like all the things we were talking about
before, the way you drive yourself, the way you
push yourself, the way you put yourself into
that frame of mind, no one's going to understand
that other than you. So no one's going to understand
you get an erection from thinking about hurting
someone more than you will. There has to be fear
based in somewhere. Fear based? Maybe. Or maybe
just, maybe not fear based, but maybe embracing
the fact that you're going to go into this with
everything that you have, the chaos of it all.
The ultimate goal is to hurt somebody. The ultimate
goal is to be extremely successful. The way you
can be extremely successful, the thing you do
great, is to crush people. So to have that encompass
everything. This fighting is the only thing I
don't ask Allah for. I just don't ask Him for
help for that. You don't ask Him for help for
fighting? Yeah. Because you think you got it?
No, I just don't think. You don't think you should
ask? I just don't want to be involved with that
kind of mindset in Allah. So, you know, people
do, they go to, I just don't. I just don't because
it's just, I don't like the way I think, and
I don't want God to be, you know, involved with
the way I think at that time. Well, this is what's
so interesting to me about you fighting again,
because of the conversation that we had the last
time you were here, that you didn't want to reignite
your ego. Clearly, your ego is blazing right
now. I mean, you're ready to go. Well, maybe
because I... I'm an addict, a former addict,
and I'm under a narcotic ring. The camera's on
me. This is a big narcotic, and maybe that has
something to do with it as well. But I like to
think it's under control until the night of the
event. Yeah, the night of the event. So the addiction
will get purged with the performance. Yeah, that's
why I was doing, if you don't mind me interrupting
for a second, I was... The book that talks to
you, what do they call it? Audio book. And it
was called The Gene Key. Okay. This book. And
the book was explaining about why that we are,
who we are in that perspective, that most of
the people like you and myself and people, people
in general who is not at that level, even anyone
that have a creative mind is victimized to depression.
And the reason is because. When that creator,
whatever it is that causes that creativity is
not fed the proper information that is successful
and that is accepted in whatever space of the
brain and the mind that it wants to be accepted
and is not accepted, it crumbles. Does that make
sense? Well, I feel like with someone like you,
the highs that you reach in competing, the highs
you reach in fighting are so high. that it's
probably very difficult to it's probably very
difficult to just exist outside of that And I
know you love pot for that reason because it
calmed you down and mellowed you out and chilled
you out. Absolutely. It made me like myself.
Do you understand that? Yeah, I do. It makes
me like myself. It gives you forgiveness of yourself.
Yeah, I agree with that. I never thought about
that. I never wanted to be forgiven much because
that's really powerful stuff. Yeah. To have to
accept forgiveness is really powerful stuff.
And to forgive yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's
hard to forgive other people. Sometimes it's
harder to forgive yourself. Yes. And marijuana
makes you feel, like, it makes me more compassionate.
It makes me more friendly. It makes me want to
hug people. It gives me more of a sense of community.
Exactly. It makes me like people who I believe
did something wrong to me. Yeah, you're like,
ah, he didn't fuck me. It's okay. He's a good
nigga. He's my man. Yeah, it's like, he didn't
mean it. He's just all fucked up just like me.
But if I'm drunk, I'm going to blow that bread.
Oh, God. The fighting thing, to feed that, that
experience, it's a different experience. It's
got to be so hard for a world championship fighter
of your caliber to exist with regular, normal,
boring life. When you're training and you're
ramping yourself up for a big fight and then
you have that big fight and you knock out Spinks
in front of the whole world and you're walking
around the ring and you're on the cover of every
magazine, the highs of that, the accomplishment,
the training, and then the competing itself,
the experience is so alien to me. most people
that when you walk around with regular folks
in regular life it's gotta it's gotta be hard
to exist no it's not it's just that um you have
to know who you can be at certain times in your
life no one knows who they are because if you
know if you knew who you were right now you'd
be really limited you know because life is about
change you're gonna be told then five years from
now you'd be a different person won't be this
person so we're gonna have to have develop some
kind of emotional intelligence and just learn
to, as time goes on, grasp what's ever going
on and just form with it. As it changes, you
change with it. Because it's very difficult when
times change to change with the times. Right.
And you have to be conscious of that. And the
times is not... The people around you, the time
is the development and time you have left on
this planet that you have to develop who you
are. How difficult is it to make that change,
though, to become a different person other than
a world championship fighter? Like when you decided
to stop, was it difficult? Well, time will make
you that person. Time will. Yeah, time will make
you that person. What is time? I don't know.
Right. But time has also made you that person
again now, though. Now it's reignited. Now new
time has come, and now you're training again.
Exactly. But I think this is done mostly for
my health. for my mortality more than anything.
Subconsciously, I think. That's the reason why
I did it, just to be healthy. To be healthy.
This stuff goes on, then this, and then I meet
a doctor and say, hey, you know, you should do
this and this, and you should try stem cell.
I'm like, you never tried stem cell? But this
is what really got me interested in this stuff.
I thought I interviewed, which I'd like to do
you as well, on my podcast. If you're licensed
to do it, your contract won't let you do it.
Oh, yeah, for sure. So I had the opportunity
to talk to Ken Shamrock. Okay. And so he came
in. I looked at him. I said, fuck, he looks incredible.
What the fuck? Hey, what are you doing right
now? Why do you look like that? How's that happen?
And he said it was in Columbia. And I said, where?
And he said, I'm going tomorrow. Right? I had
some people nearby that I happened to be introduced
to, and they were on the top. Is that that bio
-accelerator place down in Columbia? Is that
what it is? I didn't go there. Is that where
Henry Cejudo went? I have no idea who went there.
I have no idea where he's at. I just knew it
was in Columbia. And I met some other people
who were, yes, on top of their game with this
anti -aging, all this stuff that's going on with
this alternative stuff also. And so, pfft. I
met these people, and it was just amazing stuff.
So you're able to now train all these days a
week. You have, like, how many months in now?
You're solid since April. Yes. And you attribute
that mostly to all these different alternative
methods of healing and recovery? Absolutely,
especially this gentleman that we call. His name
is Brad Rowe. We call him the mechanic, the electrician
that is. And he works through it. But current
forces and that was just... Oh, electromuscular
stimulation, those things? Yeah, but it's different.
It's totally different. It's different? It's
in that family, but it's just totally superior
than that. That's just so antiquated compared
to this stuff, you know? So you were talking
about your ability to... You run in the morning,
and now what's the afternoons like? What are
you doing in the afternoons? That's when I'm
training. Around 1 o 'clock, I'm in the gym.
I'm doing the training. 2 .30, I'm probably talking
on the phone and flipping some deals, making
arrangements probably to do other shows, commercial
or some ads. Business stuff. How did you get
hooked up with Rafael Cordero? Because for folks
who don't know, he's... legendary trainer in
MMA. He's from Chutebox in Brazil. He was one
of the top guys back when Chutebox was the number
one MMA camp in Brazil where Anderson Silva and
Vanderlei Silva... I found this out later, but
this is how this happened. The two of us met.
I said, hey, you know, I'd like to hit the mitts.
You think I could hit the mitts with somebody?
You think you got somebody around to hit the
mitts? I was getting ready to go to Freddie's
gym. Freddie Roach? Yeah, and then... Someone
said they had Raphael. And I said, okay, let
me check him out. And he was just perfect. Is
he near you? Does he live near you or something?
He lives in Laguna. I'm in Newport. What is another?
Laguna? It's close enough. Yeah. Yeah, that's
close. That's real close. So he's there, I believe.
He's a great trainer. We just came from Vegas.
Just hanging out, you know, had to go someplace.
And he's just cool, cool. I met him before the
pandemic, but that's what I mean. We came before
the pandemic. We were in Vegas. We met, I guess,
at one of the UFC fights. And then I met him
over here, and I was saying I want to hit the
message, and that's how we got back together.
He's a great man, like a good person. No. The
reason why. And Kev, not necessarily because
he was awesome with the mix, because he put so
much... Peace and love and stuff to the whole
family, the whole camp. He's a beautiful man.
His image, his energy is just awesome. Yeah,
he's got great energy. He's beloved. Yes. Like,
in the MMA world and all the people that he trains
with, everyone loves Rafael Cordero. Oh, he's
the best. You can't find a person to say a bad
word about that man. Oh, man, he's so awesome.
And he's a very good trainer. And he also was
a guy, like, that style, that shoot box style,
they were very aggressive. And I was like, oh,
that actually makes sense, him and you together.
Yeah, when we do... The drills are what's going
on. When we're hitting the mitts, it's no use,
hey, hit the mitts, pop, pop, pop. It's boom,
and we're moving. It's action, boom. Heart beating,
heart breathing, and we're just working at it.
Yeah, I'm watching, and I'm saying it's interesting
because he's got you doing a lot of side -to
-side and angles. Oh, yeah, listen. I do eight
rounds on the bag, and I do four rounds with
me in the movement. Oh, whoo! You feel that?
That bag work. What was that bag? Would that
even really work out? Yeah. You know, he said,
was that really even a workout? What was that,
the warming up for this? What was that about?
You don't even know that existed after you did
the four or five rounds. So when you go from
April, when you first started doing it again,
to now, how much better do you feel? Listen,
that was just a joke at the beginning. You know,
right now it's really perking up. It feels like
real training. Yeah, it does. It's taking that
deep breath. Do you feel like you could train
as hard as you did back when you were in your
prime? Well, listen, you have a tape here, don't
you, that we could look at? Is there a film?
Do you have a film of my tape of me hitting the
mitts in my prime and see me hitting the mitts
now? I bet we do. Look at me hit the mitts in
88 and let me hit the mitts from last week. Can
you tell me? No, listen, I'll tell you. You look
fucking fantastic. That's what's interesting
about it. Wow, that's me. Look at this. It's
just I had more endurance back then than now,
but now I'm catching up. Well, that's what's
interesting about it. It's not like watching
an old fighter that has lost it that's just trying
to compete. It's like watching an old fighter
regain those old skills. Like, you look great,
man. That's what's crazy about it. I'm just going
to work on this and work off it and keep working
on it and see where this goes. It's so exciting.
I love it. I love it. Listen, this is Johnny
Ryan, the guy that works with us in aeros and
stuff. When we announced the fights. We got in
2 .5 billion hits. I'm serious. I believe it.
I believe it. No, this is going to be a huge
fight. I mean, this fight is probably going to
be one of the biggest fights of all time in terms
of pay -per -view, in terms of people buying
it and watching it. There it is. It's a great
video. In terms of helping people as well. Of
Roy and you training together. There's a compilation.
It looks like somebody speeded my goddamn film.
My mother -in -law said they speed that up, and
my wife said they speed that up. I said, no,
I think they did not. That's the electrician.
Oh, the electrical muscular stimulation shit?
Yeah. No, it doesn't look like it's sped up.
It looks like you still have the speed. That's
what it looks like. That's what's so exciting
about it. With a King's MMA shirt on? Yeah. So
exciting. It's so exciting, man. It really is.
I'm 100 % into this, and I can't wait for the
fight to go down. It's going to be November 18th
now, right? 28th. November 28th. It was enough
time for fans and everybody in Thanksgiving to
be home and to be able to view it for the holidays
and just be able to help more people, the more
people that view it. This is so exciting, man.
Are you doing weightlifting? Are you doing any
swimming? What other kind of exercises are you
doing? The only swim I did was when that shark
commercial. That was the only swim I did. I was
going to ask you about that. And we're doing
little weights. We're doing a lot of reps and
just doing a lot of motion. So you have a strength
and conditioning coach? Yeah, Brad Rowe. Okay,
so he's doing... Yeah. Yeah. Brad Rowe. I've
heard that name before. Weightlifting champ,
chain weightlifting champs and all that stuff.
And he's just an awesome person to me. It's kicking
butt. And how many days a week are you doing
strength and conditioning along with your running
and your boxing training? Monday to Friday. I
think we do Saturdays too. I say, hey, I'm bored.
Let's just go Saturday. Wow. How good does it
feel to get back in shape again, man, and to
look great? Hey, it feels awesome, but listen,
there's nothing easy about it. You know, getting
in shape is not easy. It's just... It's continuous
stuff. It's consistency. There it is. Big ol'
brat. So how the fuck did they talk you into
getting in the ocean with sharks? What was that
all about? Listen, I don't know how they did
this. The money wasn't really that great and
stuff. You know, and I'm sorry, shark world.
Your guys underpaid me. They had me out there.
I was there. It was really interesting, man.
It was really interesting. I'm just saying, how
did these guys get me in here? Yeah, I was wondering
the same thing. And listen, Dana thought he was
doing me a favor. I don't want Mike to fail.
I'm telling Mike to do a couple of gigs with
these guys. And I'm saying, thanks a lot, Dana.
You really like me. Dana really liked me. I'm
saying, Dana really cares about me. He said,
forget the fight. I don't want to see Mike fight.
I want to see Mike go fuck with some sharks.
Yeah, I would say fighting is probably safer.
Dana didn't want you to fight, right? Yeah, but
then he wants me to go with sharks, though. Why
didn't he want you to fight? Did you talk to
him about it? No, no. He has never seen it until
he's seen it and watched me. Once he saw you,
then he changed his mind? Mm -hmm. Yeah. I think
when someone sees the dedication that you have,
that you're actually fit, that you're actually
moving fast, and you actually can compete at
a very high level. I just had to realize that
I'm... I'm not going to rush in there like that
no more. I got to move around. I got to do it
in a different way. Because I tried to go in
there the first time I sparred, and it was disastrous.
So I went in there thinking, using my head, moving,
and things went the way I wanted them to go.
How long in training was the first time you sparred?
First time I sparred? 15 years. First time you
sparred in 15 years. And how many months into
training was that? You started in April. So when
did you start sparring? The really boxing stuff
is when I did that stuff with... When I did the
stuff with Raphael, first time. Right, but I
mean first sparring, first sparring rounds. Yeah,
it was really weird and stuff. But I realized
when I was getting hit, boom, boom, boom, I got
hit a couple of times. I didn't go like, what
the fuck am I doing? I said, wait, I belong here.
It brought it back. Yeah, I said, I belong here.
I got rock, boom, boom, boom. I got rock and
I heard the ringing. I said, boom, I didn't panic.
I said, oh, I belong here. Wow. I said, I belong
here. I started moving and started talking about
it. I said, whoa, I belong here. Nice. I never
said, what the fuck am I doing? This shit is
crazy. It just never happened. It never happened.
I was expecting that. You were expecting the,
what the fuck am I doing? I was like, what the
fuck? Fuck this shit. Hey, hey, stop. Fuck this
shit, nigga. I ain't doing this shit. But that's
what I was expecting, really. I said, whoa. Boom,
boom, boom, boom. Whoa, I belong here. Then you
felt it and you readjusted. That's the first
thing I said. I said, whoa, I belong here. That's
the first thing I said. Nice. How long did it
take before you started feeling comfortable sparring?
The next time I sparred again. Really? Yeah.
So the next time you sparred again, you just
could get back into the mindset of what it's
like to be competing and moving with another
person. Yeah, and you can't go for the kill because
your body's not moving for the kill now. You
have to develop the relationship. Ooh, this is
going to be interesting when you hear this. And
a fighter probably doesn't understand that, but
as he gets older, you have to develop. reacquaint
a relationship with your mind and your body.
Your legs go here before your body's ready to
go with it sometimes. So you have to... They
have to sync up. Yeah, they have to sync up.
Now you have to talk, hey, before it was like,
ween, ween, ween, before it was like, let's do
it, bing, bing, bing. Now it's like, hey, let's
move here, let's move here. You have to talk,
you lose that tenth of a second when you talk
to yourself. So you're doing it instantly. So
do you think eventually you'll get back to automatic?
Well, we're going to see. I would like that.
Yeah. Yeah, I'd like that, too. I'd like that.
It's exciting, though, man. It's very exciting
to see you sparring again, to see all that. Now,
when you're sparring, are you sparring technically?
Are you sparring hard? Listen, the first time
I went back sparring, I tried to go all out,
and I was disastrous. My body wasn't listening.
Right, right. And so, like you said, I had to
develop that relationship. And the second time
I sparred, that was so much better, yeah. I wasn't
rushing and trying to hurt nobody, kill nobody.
I was just trying to accomplish stuff. Just get
working. And how often do you spar in a week?
When I go back to sparring, I like sparring every
day. Really? Every day. Yeah, because the more
you do it, the better it is. Right, the more
your timing is, the better you feel. What are
your thoughts on, like, some people think that
you can spar too much and you leave too much
in the gym because you get hit too much in camp.
Well, that's the whole thing you learn in camp,
not to get hit. That's the art of boxing, learning
not to get hit in the fight, and you have to
do that by trying to get hit in the gym real
seriously and avoiding that. And then it turns
out in a fight. So you shouldn't be in the gym
saying, I've been hit too much because you shouldn't
get hit because that should be the objective
of fighting, not to get hit as much as you believe
you are. What do you say to a fighter that sees
themselves getting hit too much, though, in sparring?
Do you tell them to take some time off or do
you say? You know what I say? I try to teach
him how not to avoid those punches. And if he
doesn't. I don't really want to have much to
do with somebody because I don't want to be involved
with somebody getting hit and getting hurt and
stuff like that. Well, I know you were doing
a lot of coaching of just even little small sessions
with different fighters. There's a bunch of stuff
on the Internet. Did you think about doing that
in the future? No, not at this moment. It just
takes a really special person to do that. You've
got to be a mother, a father, a psychiatrist,
a dietician. It's just so many hats you have
to wear. being a trainer a good trainer a true
trainer to yourself and your fighters it's just
a lot of hats that's really overwhelming for
me and my personality i totally can understand
that but i would also imagine that in your mind
there's some knowledge that i would love to see
passed on to other fighters in a way like a trainer
only a trainer can do yeah i'm the kind of guy
if you want to learn from me you got to learn
from a distance let me talk to you or something
because I'm not like Cuss. Cuss would never get
tired answering questions. Sometimes my son asks
me, so I say, why do you guys have so many? Because
that's the way I was with Cuss. Right. Constantly.
But I'm not Cuss. Cuss would never get, he would
love to answer all my questions because Cuss
wanted the perception that he knew everything
and you should listen to him and take his advice
because he knew everything. Yeah. You know, that's
what it's like. If you was his friend, you always
came to him for advice. He always wanted advice,
wanted to give his advice and let you know that
he was a superior thinker and that you should
come to him and he'll settle your problems. That's
just what he was. You know, do you ever think
back on your life, like your life with Cuss and
just the story, the origin story, is almost like
a movie. It's almost too crazy. No, no, no, no.
Let me tell you what happened, man. I'm in spa
fit detention for boys. And Muhammad Ali, they
showed the movie The Greatest. It's like 77,
76, I'm 11 years. They played Ali. And then Ali
walks in and talks to the kids. And I saw him
and I saw everybody going crazy. I said, I want
to be like him. And from there, I go upstate
New York. There's a guy that used to be a professional
boxer named Bobby Stewart. Mr. Stewart taught
me how to box. And eventually he said, I want
to introduce you. So he took me upstate on my
custom model. This is all in a couple of months
since I've seen Ali. And now I'm training to
be a boxer. Crazy. And you were 13, right? No,
I was... I would think I was 13, yeah. Look,
that's like a movie. No, I knew I was going to
be successful. I knew everything was going to
go right. I knew it. It was in my blood. I was
only a kid, but I said, I want to be like that
guy. And I just started working. And it's such
an amazing... Listen, not even... Not even three
or four months after I saw Ali, boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, I met him. I'm in one place, I had
a fight, trying to stab a guy, and I did it with
a pencil or something. I go from there, and I
go over to this bad place called Elmwood, this
cottage, that's where Bobby Stewart, because
he's a fighter, and he had to take care of these,
all the staff, they're big straw men, because
they have to take care of these very interesting
kids, you know, like... Homicide. These are kids,
but they're really wild. And so... That's the
job. We're in the wild. We're in the bad college,
the lock -up college, Elmwood. And so we have
the bad remnants. That's the crazy kid college.
It gets the lockdown. No one can go outside like
we. They got to be handcuffed when they leave
the cottage and stuff. And so that's where I've
gotten my tutelage. That's where I learned to
go to school. That's where I've learned everything
in this bad boy place, this place where all the
bad kids at. And since they had to have extreme
kind of, Guards did security. Mr. Stewart was
a professional boxer, and he would teach the
kids how to box. They behaved themselves and
got on a certain level in which you can go back
there and box. And guys were coming back to their
domes. I was locked up. I wasn't on the level
to go to because I had just got there, so they
put me in the back to lock you up too. They see
what kind of person you are, so they put you
in the group. And I see these guys coming back
with their eyes busted, teeth knocked out, their
ribs sore, but they were happy. They're laughing
about this. Yo, he fucked you up. Yo, baby, you
almost got him. And I say, yo, what's going on
and what's happening? They say, oh, we're fighting,
Mr. Stewart. We're boxing, Mr. Stewart. And stuff,
and they're happy with them bleeding, tooth knocked
out. But they were happy, and there was enthusiasm.
I said, I wanted to do that, too, because I wanted
to be tough. And so Mr. Stewart, I talked to
him. He didn't want to teach me. So I started
cleaning and being a real nice kid to everybody
because I wanted to learn how to box. All the
kids were happy, and he started teaching me how
to box. It's crazy that you met Cuss, too, because
out of all the people that you could meet, no
one was better at the psychological game. Oh,
I would never have been the champ if I wasn't
for Cuss because he put stuff in my mind. I started
thinking about myself being these people, visualizing
myself being, I don't know, great or somebody.
I've never done that in my life. I've never heard,
not even in the ghetto, somebody say this. Like,
I said, wow, he's great. Like, I'm talking about,
like, Holmes. I said, wow, he's incredible. He
said, why is he incredible? I don't think it's
that incredible. Why shouldn't you have that?
Why should he have that and not you? I've never
heard somebody say that to me. But Cuss was a
master at the psychological game. Master. You
would hear him talk about things, just reading
the things that he's written about the psychology
of fighting. He was the perfect guy for you.
It was almost like the stars aligned. That's
what I'm talking about. Yeah. It really is like
a movie. It really is like it all lined up. And
plus, physically, you were so unusual. You were
so unusual, so gifted. I mean, even when you
were really young. Everybody told him that he
can't be everybody. He's too small. There's no
way in the world he can be too short because
he's too small. He's got to be 225, 230. Well,
obviously they were wrong. Big time. But it was
also, you might have been short, but. You have
the best style, and Cuss developed that with
you, the best style to deal with the fact that
you were shorter, the bobbing and the weaving,
the constant pressure. Exactly. But I believe
style is relevant. I believe it's the morale
behind the style. I think success in fighting
in life is about desire and the will. Yeah. How
bad do you want it? Is it worth dying for? That's
his true greatness is the willingness to die.
So this thing worth greatness. The mindset that
he instilled in you and the way he gave you the
tools in order to think about things in a way
that fueled that mindset. Yeah, but that doesn't
do good in the real world, though. It really
is really disastrous in the real world. Right,
right. You know? Yeah. That is true, right? That
too, yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It's like
the very thing that made you special. could fuck
you in the real world with regular people. Ooh,
the real world. Guys like that go to prison.
They don't exist in the real world. They got
to take them out of there. It's crazy. They have
to remove them from the real world, those kind
of people like myself. Isn't that what's crazy?
That's where the crazy adjustment has to come
in, where you have to learn how to be. And that's
where cannabis helped you a lot, too. A lot.
Oh, man, forget it. Forget it. Forget it. But
now you're not smoking any weed getting ready
for this fight. No, no, no. Do you miss it? Well,
I understand the discipline of this stuff. But
what I don't like about it is just that without
cannabis, it doesn't matter to me. I just get
mean. I don't like the mean stuff. I don't like
I might snap at my wife or my kids. That's what
I don't like. Right. What? Right, right, right.
Well, I see the sparkle in your eye again. It's
a little different right now than the last time
I was talking to you. There's a little more intensity
going on. But it's also you're ramping up. Yeah,
you know, I'm just always, sometimes I get beside
myself and I forget that I have to be grateful
for what I love, what God did in general, and
sometimes... I get caught up into my ego. So
it's just a struggle, but I'm working on it.
I never worked on it before, so that's a start,
right? I never considered working on it. But
that is the thing, right? What gets you to be
a championship -level fighter can really fuck
you up for the rest of your life. Oh, I can't
believe it. I'm so happy my wife is still with
me. I'm just very grateful because I'm just useless
and stuff. I have to learn how to live life.
Life, I'm disastrous in living life. Fucking
joke. I get it, man. You would never believe.
I would believe. You know, I'm using these nice
words and I'm conducting myself. You come to
my nice house and you would say, this guy is
just an uncouth Neanderthal. You know, so I used
to listen to my wife when people think it's stupid.
I listen to this, right? So she told me before
I came in, be kind and be nice to everyone. Be
kind and nice. Because I don't eat most of the
time. I only eat after I work. And if I don't
eat enough, she says she's going to get angry.
can you please eat so she's forcing me to eat
this stuff for Friday goodness and so I said
okay I eat but she's right because of the time
we've been married 11 years you got a good one
then man you got someone who balances you out
someone who understands you yeah I don't know
listen I was talking to her so you know sometimes
Sometimes I think about we're together and this
is going to be over soon and we're going to die.
One of us is going to die before the other one.
I would not know what to do if you died first.
Wow. And I had to take care of these kids because
her whole life is me and all my kids. Right.
Her life is me and not only the two kids that
we have, but her life is me and all my kids.
Right. I would just love her and marry her just
for that alone. No pussy, no passion, no sex,
that alone. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful, man.
To find someone who balances you out like that.
Absolutely. But that, what we were talking about,
where the very fire that gets you to be Mike
Tyson, that turns you into this destroyer inside
the ring, will, if you don't learn how to control
it, will fuck you up in every other aspect. For
instance, after my one -round fights, some of
them caused me loss because right after that,
you think I'm calmed down. You think after 30
seconds or 45 seconds, hey, he's cool. After
one round, everything's cool. He's happy. It's
over. It's still ringing. It's revving up. It's
still revved. It's not finished. It's not dead.
The energy's not dead. Not the energy that you
jet. The energy of hurting somebody or continuing
to hit somebody. It's revved up. Right. And so
the first thing you hear that indicates... It's
not, hey, what? It's just off. You have no control
over it. And it's almost like you're insane.
Like, why can't I stop this? Why is this happening
to me? Why am I in jail right now? And you're
Mike Tyson, so it's not like anybody can tell
you not to do it. Or anybody can tell you to
shut up or calm down. You're not going to listen
to anybody. You're the fucking king of the world.
But it just gets crazy when the people on the...
jail and prison know you real well you know they're
familiar with you like when they see you they're
not excited now right yeah they get really familiar
with you um jamie foxx is gonna play you in a
movie that's gonna be interesting that's gonna
be interesting that's wild if anybody can do
it jamie foxx can do it That's a talented man.
He's really good at what he does. He's fucking
talented. That guy can do anything. He's one
of those dudes, you listen to him sing, you hear
him play music, you see him do stand -up comedy,
then you see him act, you're like, this fucking
guy can do anything. He's just one of those dudes
that can just lock in on something and he can
do anything. Yo, listen, when the light is on
you, when the universe puts the light on you,
there's nothing stronger than a person whose
time has come. Yeah. It's all about the light,
man. All of us get it. You may not think the
homeless man on the corner, the blind and paralyzed
guy that's begging with a cup. We all get that
moment of shine. We all get it. Feelings, performance,
whatever it is, we all get it. Now, when Jamie
is playing you, what does that feel like? I know.
Michael Jai White played you once. Yeah. Did
you talk to him about that? No, I didn't know
him or anything. I was in jail when this guy
was doing this stuff. Do you know Michael Jai?
I met him a few times. He's a great guy. He appears
to be. Very, very nice guy. I've known him for
a long time. And very respectful guy, too. But
was it weird watching someone play you? Dig,
man. No. No? No, no. It's just that ego shit
kicked in, so I'm watching it. And he had some
good qualities in it. He did some really good
stuff that I thought. But the stuff that he did
that represented me, I don't think people even
picked up on it. Like what kind of stuff? It's
the way he moved his head. Yeah. People don't
know I crack my neck all the time. Yeah, what
was that about? You were always doing that. I
don't know. I don't know what had happened. When
I had fought Bone Crusher, Smithy had hit me.
And the next thing I know, I don't know how to
crack my neck. I couldn't stop. My neck was messed
up, so I had to go in to a chiropractor. I don't
know what the heck was wrong with it. So that
was on the Kiva? It was a nerve. So it was from
the bone crusher Smith? Well, that's when I started
doing it. Oh, wow. I had some nerves, a nerve
that was like, ah. Did you ever have neck problems?
Like, you needed surgery or anything? Yeah, I
had surgery on my neck. You know the Hawaii?
You remember when I used to do those rolls on
my head? Yes. The football rolls. They destroyed
me. They destroy your neck. I would do them for
three minutes, then stop a minute, do them for
three minutes. So I'd do them for five or six,
eight rounds. And as time went on, they just
beat me up. That gave you a crazy fucking neck,
though, man. Your neck used to start at your
temples and just go straight down. For fighting,
you need a good neck. Are you doing anything
to strengthen your neck now? Yes, I have the
weight stuff. You ever use an iron neck? Do you
know that device? No. It's a halo. I'll give
you one. I have one in the back. It's a halo.
You put it on. You pump it up. It fits around
your head. And then it's got a bungee cord on
it. So you back up like this. The bungee cord's
50 pounds. And then you do these. And because
it doesn't do this with your neck, it doesn't
put pressure on the discs. So it doesn't move
the discs in an unnatural way with weight. This
way? Yeah, because you can do all these different
exercises on it, but it doesn't ever bend your
discs. So it strengthens the neck without doing
damage to your discs. That sounds interesting.
You know what I have? I would love that. Yeah.
Thank you. I really appreciate it. What's the
name? I have a treadmill that you have to put
on some shorts first. And then you zip it. Oh,
in the water? No, it's not water. You put on
some shorts. You zip the shorts with the plastic
that covers the machine. And you start running.
And then you can run as fast as you can. You
won't feel anything. But it's not water inside
of it? No, it's running on a treadmill. It's
under plastic, and it's zipped up around you.
This thing right here? Zero gravity treadmill,
is that it? That's what it is, yeah. Oh. How's
that working? That's pretty awesome. You don't
feel anything. Then you take the pencil. If you
feel a little sexy, boom, you might fall to the
floor. Really? Yeah, it's really cool. So this
way it doesn't beat up your joints. Yeah. But
listen, this is what people don't understand.
Yeah, you have a machine that don't beat up,
but when you're running outside... The high of
running outside is almost worth messing your
joints up. Really? Yeah. The high you get from
running outside. What's the difference between
the high you get from running outside? You never
felt that running? I do. I do run outside. But,
like, what do you feel? Man, it's just, I can't
even articulate it. Between being outside running
and, it's like night and day. Being inside the
house on the treadmill and being outside running,
it's like night and day. You can't even compare
the two. Is it because you're moving, you're
traveling distance? Is it because you're breathing
in the fresh air? It's a spiritual difference.
It's just a spiritual difference. Running, hearing
the birds, hearing whatever it is the animal
is running through, breaking the sticks and the
weeds. You're just conscious of everything. Right.
It's real running as opposed to just exercise
on a machine. Exactly. Even if you have a headphone
on, you're still conscious of everything out
there. Now, have you talked to Jamie Foxx? Yeah.
While he's getting ready to do this? I talk to
Jamie periodically, all the time. We don't even
talk about the film. Really? Yeah, we don't talk
about it. Now, he's getting bulked up, too. He's
getting jacked. He looks huge. I just wait till
he's finished. When is this supposed to take
place? Whenever he's ready, I guess. Oh, wow.
That's wild. So when he gets ready to do it,
is he going to hang out with you and try to take
on your mannerisms? Well, he's known me for quite
a long time, so he knows my mannerism. He's not
going to—if I died, he can do me. Right, right.
Pretty much, you know, so he wouldn't have to
be around me. Do you want to help him? Do you
want to give him any pointers or anything? Whatever
help and what areas and what direction he needs
me to help him in, yeah. I'm capable of doing
it, yeah. If you're going to have someone play
you, I think he's the perfect person. He's just
good. And there's other guys too, but he just
knows the real. He has been there. It's hard
to get a guy that's just 20 years old and then
we're going to have him portrayed as a 25. And
he just never gets it right. When somebody understands
the environment that they lived in at that particular
time and they create that environment again in
their mind once they're under the influence of
that. person they're portraying, Jamie's going
to get some knocking out the park. No, he'll
knock it out the park for sure. He understands
that environment and that chemistry he's going
to reconnect. Now, are you going to be a consultant
on this move or anything to make sure that it's
all legit? Listen, Jamie will be around me. He'll
discuss it with me. I'm sure we have that taken
care of as well. But, you know, we're just going
to work this out the best way possible for both
of us, I believe. Now, is it supposed to follow
you when you're a young man, or is it supposed
to be you as a champion? Well, we're not going
to talk about that right now. It's going to be
a bunch of stuff, but you're going to really
dig it. I'm going to tell them some really interesting
stuff. So you're saying that running outside,
it's worth it just for the spiritual difference.
It's worth the beating up on the joints. Does
it fuck with your joints? Do you have knee problems
or ankle problems these days? Yeah, I do. But
the guys I work with, they take care of that
right away. You know, it's almost like, it's
like, I don't know. It's like, I don't know,
I want to say healing like I'm 18, but it's almost
like putting super glue on your joints. All right?
You know, like Superglue, and it gets stuck in
your finger. You're like, oh, fuck, get the Superglue.
You know, remember that time you put it in and
it gets stuck in your finger? Like, God, you
can't get it off. It's like Superglue. It is
interesting what they can do today. Like, you
could heal and recover way better than you ever
could before. There was no 54 -year -old men
that looked like you when we were kids. No, no.
Jack LaLanne was the only one. Yeah, and even
Jack LaLanne, I mean, he was kind of fit, but
he was just fit because he was disciplined. Yes.
Because he continued to exercise deep into his
90s. What discipline was all about. I don't care
how good you are in anything. You don't have
discipline. You ain't nobody. Right. You're nothing
without discipline because you give up on the
slightest struggle without discipline. 100%.
And that has to be something that you also learn
from Cuss as well. I don't know what discipline
is. I don't know what discipline is. He told
me discipline is doing what you hate to do, but
do it like you love it. Ah. Doing what you hate
to do, but do it like you love it. That is a
great quote. And if you can do that, you could
be successful in anything. Well, you normally
are. You'd be the best janitor in the history
of janitors. Yeah. And I use that for a perspective,
not just putting those janitors down. Yeah. You
know, the best of it. I know what you're saying.
When all is said and done, I would love it if
someone sat down with you and made maybe a book
of all the things that Cuss taught you. I don't
know. All those things that Cuss taught me nowadays
would not be cool. In what way? I don't know.
Cuss was born in 1908. In 1908, they had a different
opinion of people having opinions like women
and stuff like that. And Cuss, Cuss believing
that he cared for the downtrodden people and
this and that for the blacks and Latinos and
Irish people who are being... abused by the Irish
people of that time, which is crazy. He really
was that guy. He was the guy that fought for
the people that didn't have anyone to fight for
them. He was just that guy. He wanted to be that
person. He wanted to be a person that people
looked up to, and he was the boss and stuff.
He just wanted to be a person. And when I read
his book and I found out about him, he was successful
his whole life. He was always the guy in the
neighborhood that people came to to settle beef
and talk things over with and loan people stuff
and help people out. And he liked being in that
position of being able to teach people something,
what he believed was teaching them something.
So he knew so much about the human mind. Well,
when he died, this is very interesting. When
he died and Camille was there, I lived with him
and Camille. And I would clean the room, and
when I saw it in the room, I saw all books about
psychiatry and the mind and everything and mystic
stuff and all that stuff. And I said, this is
what he was really about. Yeah, he just, like,
he believed he was a mystic believer as well.
He believed in Zen and the art of archery and
all that. He had those books. He was just a believer
in more than what we saw. Yeah. You know, it
was more than what we could physical. articulate
going on with us as human beings of what we are
called. When you sit back and you think about
your career and how fortunate you were to run
into that guy, I mean, how much did that play
a part in your mind? Like, when you knocked out
Trevor Burbick, became the youngest ever heavyweight
champion, when you're thinking about that, did
you ever stop and think, like, man, how lucky
am I that I ran into that man? No, no. He said
he summons me. He summoned you. Whoa. Makes sense.
I mean, you think about a man whose life work
involved psychiatry, involved the mind, boxing,
hypnosis, training all these boxers, Floyd Patterson,
had all these great fighters, and then he wants
one great one before it's over, and he summoned
you. No, he wants an animal. An animal. He summoned
you. What did that feel like for you? Does it
make sense? No, I believe what he told me. Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if I believe you could summon
someone, but goddamn, that seems like it's real.
Yeah. That seems like it's real. I don't know.
I think you can do whatever you believe you can
do if you really believe it. Yeah. Well, that
was what I got out of all the things that I read
about you and him together and being able to
talk to you about you and him. is that he gave
you these tools to understand the way your mind
worked, and you just ran with them. I'm an extreme
kind of person, yeah, so I get carried away.
If your confidence is not a delusional perspective,
you have the right confidence. Yeah. You get
so amped up, Mike, even sitting here talking
to you about these things, I could see it in
you. You get amped up even just talking about
achieving things, talking about success, talking
about the mind. You know, I could see it inside
of you. You get very fired up about these things.
Yeah. I have to be serious about anything that
I want to accomplish. Yeah, that intensity is
what made you special. I mean, that... I'm mean,
Joe. I can't have people... This is the first
time I had my wife and kids around me. Normally,
this can't happen. I have to be away from them.
For camp. Yeah. No, I can tell, man. You're different
right now than the last time I saw you. I can
tell you're ramping up for this fight. It's just
what it is. I don't know if I like being who
I am. It's just who I am. Are you planning on
doing this and then seeing whether or not you're
cool with it after it's over? And then maybe
going back to the way you were? I just want to
do it. You just want to do it? Yeah, let's just
do it. Only think about that for now and then
let all the chips fall where they may after it's
over? I just do it. I just want to do it. I like
doing it. I don't think it's going to be disastrous
enough that this is going to be awesome and we're
going to do it. I'm so glad you're doing it,
man. There's a lot of people that had negative
opinions about it. And I was like, listen. No,
this is interesting. Okay. Just think about it.
How old are you? You're not that old. I'm 53.
I'm a year younger than you. Yeah, but listen.
The fact is, like, when they said they can't
get people on the moon. Because they didn't want
to believe it. Because it's like they don't want
to believe it. But what are they going to say
when it happens? I think there's a difference
in today than there was in 20 years ago when
you were dealing with a 54 -year -old person.
When you're talking about recovery, sports science,
what they know about how to make the body work.
what they know about training and conditioning.
People are just different now. Yeah, but all
it has to do, you could be on so many steroids
and pills or whatever they got, health growth
and all that stuff. But listen, you could be
the best physical shape in your right if you
don't go out there where a good mental perspective
is going to turn out disastrous. Yeah, if you're
not mentally prepared. Yeah, it's going to be
disastrous. But that's the thing that I'm liking
about talking to you. You seem very mentally
prepared. You're ramped up, Mike. Yeah, I don't
know if I am. It's just that this is who I am.
I guess, I don't know. I like fighting. Well,
that's why you were so fucking great at it. And
that's what's so exciting about this is that
you're back into that mindset again. I guess
so, yeah. I try to control it because I have
to know I have people at home. level my personality
down for. That's the problem, right? The problem
is living a regular life. Once you turn the switch
on, just to keep... You know, normally when I'm
in this mode, I only want a slave. I don't want
a family member. I have to cut stuff down. We
all have to be from a humanity perspective. You
get into the conqueror's mindset. It's just that
I think... Everything should go my way while
I'm going through this process. Yeah. I think
no should be a foreign language for this next
two months for what I need to prepare for, what
I need to prepare for. Everything should go your
way. Yeah, from my perspective, for me knowing
me, preparing for what I need to prepare for,
yeah. That's an alien thought process for most
people. They don't understand. To be Mike Tyson,
to be who you were when you were at the top,
you have to think like that. I don't think anyone
thinks. I think you think like that. I think
you think like that, too. That's what I mean,
to fight. I think to fight is the most extreme
version of that, though. For you to prepare for
the... Well, let's say you had Joe Biden in here.
For you to prepare for that, that's going to
be very interesting, right? You're not going
to come at him like you came at somebody that
you know, that you're comfortable with. You're
going to look at him from a different perspective.
Let me hit him from this part and see where this
comes from. Because he's going to look at you
as just some small sports jock. Yeah. So you're
going to say, I'm going to surprise him and come
at him from this direction. That's just how we
think, the competitive. We don't want nobody
to think what we are. We want them to... have
a little bit of figuring out process for what
we are. If I had Joe Biden in here, I think I'd
get really high before I talk to him. Oh, that
would be beautiful. I think he would be high
too. You can't tell me he's not a high guy. He
looks like he's a high guy. He's going to be
a high. It definitely seems like he's on something.
Yeah, but I would get really high before I talk
to a dude like that. That would be awesome. Just
to try to feel. You know how sometimes when you're
real high, you feel energy from people, good
or bad? You feel. You know what I mean? When
you're hunting mushrooms, you got them pegged.
Whoa, baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're hunting
mushrooms, you see who they really are behind
the screen. That's why my wife don't like me.
She said, you're on shrooms again, huh? Don't
come in here with no damn shrooms. Shrooms and
DMT. Don't mess with shrooms. What's that? Chunga.
There must be no chunga and shrimp. That's a
no -no for me at the house. Don't bring that
shit home. Yeah, that's funny, man. Just even
microdosing. If you microdose mushrooms and you're
around people, especially if someone's lying
to you, especially if they're pretending they're
something they're not. Listen, I've done mushrooms
alone. Before, I used to do a bag a day. I stopped
for three months. I said, let me just do a little.
I'm looking at the tub and bang! I'm God, and
you guys are just here for my entertainment.
But you're watching television at first, and
it's cool, and then it starts sounding, whoa,
it sounds good, and then boom, it hits you. I
know some dudes who train on it. They like to
train on mushrooms. Listen, you know what I did?
I took some mushrooms, and I did the bike for
two hours, but it was like, it was just like
I was in a zone. But breathing heavy. I'm in
the dome. I can hear my breathing. I'm like,
what the? Wow. I'm going to die. I'm thinking
you're going to die. Holy shit. I'm going to
die, but I don't stop realizing. I'm thinking
I'm dead. Because that's what mushrooms do. It
makes you believe you're dead. It gives you that
feeling of fucking, like, boom. It's just. Yeah.
I'm living dead. It's feeling like your soul
is separate from your physical body. Listen.
Why can't they? Listen. Stop. It's like. No.
It's like you're in this room, right? I'm in
this room. Well, you said that blew my mind.
You said, I'm in the room. And all the room is
like, it could be like, the whole room, this
whole room is like, covered in like a, kind of
like, shaded, visible, and I'm just covered.
And the whole, and it's just me, and everything,
the whole world is outside of me. Yeah. And it's
like I'm gone, and everything is just my entertainment.
I'm just looking in. And no one sees me. It's
just, oh, man, forget it. I got to run with this.
Hey, baby, baby, baby. Even though I've been
hiding this stuff from her. Baby, baby, I took
some shrooms. I'm not feeling good, baby. I'm
sorry. I'm just not feeling good. I'm seeing
shit. I'm not feeling good. What does your wife
say when you do that? She says, I told you not
to use that shit. Stop doing it. I learn things
when I do them, though, too. I learn things about
myself. Oh, do I? Yeah. And I said, see, baby?
Because when I do learn, I tell my wife, she
said, this is true. I said, see, the shrooms.
Yeah. The shrooms, mama. It's the shrooms. It
gives me that enlightenment. But it's also, once
I do shrooms, I know why I have to stop doing
the shrooms, because I start doing it too much,
and then I lose the concept of time. I might
have been, like you say, me and my wife in the
car, we drop off the kid to, A class that she
goes once every week. We drop her off, then we
come back to the house, and I just say, hey,
where's Milan? We just dropped her off, Mike,
and I lost that concept. I lost that time. Yeah.
Yeah, it makes regular life seem trivial. Things
like time, it doesn't mean anything anymore.
It's a problem. Yeah. If you have to keep appointments.
Oh, no, I'm not going to make that. And if you
go there and if your body, the shrooms tell you,
hey, you shouldn't really be here. This is not
worth our time. This is not what we're vibing
on to reach the higher level. This becomes disastrous.
This guy becomes the enemy. He's stopping my
enlightening now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, shrooms.
I think there should be clinics all over the
country. Some of them do. They are. Cybertan,
what's it called? Psilocybin. Psilocybin. Psilocybin,
yeah. But it's still a Schedule I drug, unfortunately,
in this country. But I think there should be
clinics where the professionals talk it through.
Listen, have you heard about the white cobra?
The white cobra? Yeah. Oh, he should be a great
psychedelic, too. It's another psychedelic? Oh,
the lizard's tail, the centipede. Yeah. No. The
toad, of course you know the toad. The shore
pea, what else? The jellyfish, I believe is one.
And they have quite a few animals that possess
that. Psychedelic chemicals? Yeah. Well, we're
being fucked in this country because they keep
that shit from us and they make it illegal. And
so many people have learned great things about
themselves through mushrooms and through all
kinds of different psychedelics, especially micro
dosing. They learned how to stop us from drinking.
They gave us a rule to stop us from drinking
by taking shrooms and LSD and stuff. Yeah. Stops
people from smoking cigarettes. I just think.
We abused them. I think they've been using them
since the beginning of time. People like us,
we abused them. Yeah, but people abuse everything.
They abuse cheeseburgers and alcohol. You should
be able to take whatever you want as a grown
man. And the fact that this country keeps it
from us and keeps it illegal, it's fucked up
because it could benefit so many people. I think
we would have a better society. Well, it would
benefit the people if they wanted to benefit,
the people who was hiding it from us. are the
ones that's getting benefits. I think the people
that are hiding from us, they're protected pharmaceutical
companies. Well, listen, I don't know who they
are, but I know they're somebody. Yeah. Yeah,
well, there's a lot of factors. There's a lot
of factors. But for me personally and for a lot
of people that I know, they've gained great benefits
from psychedelics. What do you think about this
world we live in? What do you think about it?
How did it ever exist? What is the origin of
it? Yeah. Yeah, the world is a strange place
and stranger right now because of COVID and because
everyone's locked down and society's kind of
fucked up. I just think we as human beings, what
we are, who we are, whatever we exist to be,
we're fucking germs and we're the cause of everything
that happens to us. I just always think that
people let out the virus. We're viruses. We're
fungus. That's what we are, fungus. If you look
at us... From the perspective of consciousness,
what do we do? We get sick, we get other people
sick, and we die. Yeah. Have you ever heard of
Terrence McKenna? You know who Terrence McKenna
is? No, tell me about Terrence. Terrence McKenna
was a brilliant ethnobotanist. He was a guy that
worked with plants and he was into psychedelics.
And he had a theory called the stoned ape theory.
And he believed that human beings became human
beings because of psychedelics. He thinks that
we developed into human beings when lower hominids,
like ancient man, was experimenting with mushrooms.
That could be interesting. So I think, well,
let me not think that. I saw documentaries, and
from the documentaries, it appears to be that
the world was created off of drugs. Someone's
taking some drugs, and they're reaching that
belief to be divine intervention from God, and
this is how the world was discovered. Have you
ever done some research in the history of drugs?
Yeah, I've definitely done some research in the
history of drugs. Oh, so I'm sure you understand.
Well, drugs in human beings, for sure, it accelerates
creativity, right? It gives people ideas. But
the idea behind psilocybin is a bunch of ideas.
One of them is that it actually can make people
think about things like language and that language
could have... come about from people making these
connections from psilocybin. It also makes people
a little bit more creative. It makes people horny.
It increases visual acuity. Makes them compassionate.
Makes them compassionate. Would bond them in
terms of community. And love. It has a love component
as well. And if you think about it, for long
periods of time, if that became a part of the
human diet, it would make sense that that was
one of the things that made people better. No,
it would make sense because the diet has always
been abused. Our diet is being abused now because
that's why we have to be obese. Sure, now. And
that's what happens with all these extreme drugs
and alternative drugs. We abuse them. We take
them too much. We smoke too much weed. You know,
we smoke too much weed. We smoke too many cigarettes.
We just do too much of everything. Yeah, we do
abuse shit. Why do you think that is? Why do
you think people do? But don't you think that
that same abuse, that same, like, that's also
what makes people great at things too? Because
that same, almost the same mindset that allows
someone to abuse drugs or abuse gambling and
become obsessed with pornography also is the
same mindset, if channeled the right way, that
allows someone to become obsessed with boxing.
What prevents them from doing the right thing
from the wrong thing with the same feeling? You
know what prevents that? What? Emotional intelligence.
Yes. The majority of the world don't even possess.
The world is not even 50 years old. Right. This
is going to be a struggle for the next 100 years.
That's going to be until we get that. That's
going to have to be our main objective to develop
that in order to succeed as human beings. Yeah,
no truer words have ever been said. That's what
it is. It's emotional intelligence. Because,
listen, our feelings are enslaved by our emotions,
and our emotions are enslaved by our feelings.
And sometimes we... sort of placate those emotions
by drowning it in food or in booze or in gambling
or sex or anything that can distract you. And
then we turn that into memories. Yeah. And then
we become enslaved to our memories. Yeah. And
it never stops. Right. That's who we are. We
are an alcoholic. We are a gambling addict. No,
we allowed ourselves to become that. Yes. We
can stop from coming at it just like we learned
Alcoholics Anonymous. Yeah. So we can learn from
that. So that's why they learned from that, so
now it's not hopeless anymore. Right. That's
why it's so hard for people, because they have
a memory of all the things they've done that's
wrong, and they do it all the time, and that
becomes who they think they are. So they start
changing the picture. Right. It's all about changing
the channel, you know? Right. Change that channel
in life. Well, that's what's so exciting about
you with this new chapter of your life. You've
just completely changed who you are. You went
from pot -smoking Mike Tyson, who's running Tyson
Ranch, who's this real nice guy to hang around
with, doing hot boxing with Mike. Tyson, fun
to be with. Everything's great. And all of a
sudden, you shift right back into Mike Tyson,
the murderer again. Well, it's just that, as
I said earlier today, if we knew who we were,
we'd be very limited. We don't know who we are.
We don't know what you might do tomorrow when
you wake up. It's true. Are you married? Yeah.
Well, listen, you might get married again. You
might go crazy. You might take on a new job.
You never know. You never know. Well, that's
one of the exciting things about life, right?
I mean, this has to be an exciting time for you
to make this big switch. Yeah, I think about
that, too. I think about a lot. I think about
a lot, like, you know, I'm 54, and that I'm not
going to be here much longer. And when I go,
am I going to see my wife and kids again, the
friends that I've loved all my life? Am I going
to see them again? I start thinking about that.
Yeah. You know, when we think about it, I was
disguised. This guy's book, what does it say?
One beat away from our internal journey. Some
guy sent me that book. And I said, wow, this
is pretty cool. Because it's true. We're only
one heartbeat away from dying. Yeah. And going
on that long ride of not knowing. Yeah. Of feeling.
Because that's when I was on the toll. DMT is
all about feeling. Yeah. The feel makes the reality.
How much did that change your perspective on
life when you had those experiences? It got me
in shape. It got me this. This is what it had
me do. As soon as I did it, the first time I
did it, it just blew my mind. Then I did it again.
I said, hey, you better get in shape. Let's get
in shape. What the fuck's wrong with you? Yeah,
I'm listening. That's what I did. I told you.
Hey, you're fucking up. Especially when you think
about it. See, I'm not the guy you have to say,
hey, Mike, man, you know, you gained a few pounds.
Let's kind of work it out, man. You can do it.
Hey, you big, fat, dumb nigga. Get your shit
together. Look at you, big, fat motherfucker.
You're a fat, lazy motherfucker. That motivates
me. You need to hear that. And you need to tell
it to yourself. Yeah. No, anybody, the right
person needs to tell it to me, too. Who the fuck's
going to say that to you? They do. Hey, hey,
hey. Listen, I was somewhere around Freddie.
I went somewhere. To do something. Then I saw
one of Freddie Roach's trainers, Irish guy, European
guy, and he knew me for years because I used
to work with him. He said, what the fuck is wrong
with you? Look at you, man. This is not fucking
right. Look at, oh, Mike, what the fuck are you
doing? And wow, I felt this big. And he sat around
a bunch of people, but he said, you know this
is not right. This is not right. And I said,
fuck, he's right. And I got right. Yeah. Some
people call that fat shaming. No. But I think
fat shaming works. For me. Works for me, too.
If I got fat, I don't want somebody yelling at
me. If somebody's not yelling at me and I found
out he thought that I was a fat motherfucker
and he wouldn't tell me, I wouldn't be a friend
of him. I wouldn't be cool with him no more.
If he's not telling me, yo, Mike, man, this is
not right, man. At least let me know. I might
not want to do it, but let me know that I'm not
looking good. This shit ain't right. Yeah. You
know, because the guy ain't going to tell you
he's going to hang around, let you stay eating
and fucking hanging around, drinking. That's
the enemy, man. Yeah. That's the enemy. So you
do the DMT trip, and then you have it in your
head, like, hey, I got to get in shape. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Like, sometimes you say, like, body
shaming doesn't hurt people. It hurts some people.
To me, it makes me, hey, man, it helps me. I'm
just that guy. The only way it hurts people is
if you don't listen. If someone says you're fat
and then it hurts your feelings but you don't
work out, then it hurts you. But if someone says
you're fat and it hurts your feelings and you
say, I'm going to use this as a motivator to
get back in shape, then it helps you. Fat shaming
is only bad if you don't stop being fat. I never
looked at it as fat shaming. That's what you
said. Who's going to say that to Mike? I don't
respect that guy. The guy that thinks like that,
I'm not going to tell him. That's my enemy. He's
not helping you. He's my enemy. Right. He's my
enemy. So the DMT trip opened your eyes to that.
Absolutely. Yeah. But that's not something you
want to do while you're in camp. You know, I
did it 16 times. 17, 16 times, yeah. Never regret
doing it. Never regret doing it. I think everybody
should do it. It's just everybody. Not everybody,
but everybody who wants to. It's not for everybody.
Not everybody. Everybody who needs it should
do it. I should say that. Yeah, because some
people believe this is all, this is the real
world out here. Yeah. They really believe this
is reality. Isn't that interesting? Like once
you do it, you realize that that world is so
more vivid than this world. And we're going to
be in that world longer than we're going to be
in this world. Let me hurry up and die and get
this shit over with. Yeah, that's probably true.
I don't know what it is, but it's probably true.
Listen, this is what happened. You do this total
stuff or any of those interesting narcotics,
you have a different opinion about dying and
the fear of dying. Yeah. You start to think,
hey, maybe I'm living too long. You know? Shit.
Well, maybe that's just another existence. That's
what made me think. Maybe this is always there.
And maybe this life that we have, this temporary
life that we're clinging on to, that's so important
to us. Why nobody wants to really stick on to
the fact that after we die it's over? Why nobody
want to hold on to that? Than really being confident
with saying, hey, there's something else after
this. Is that from dying early or what? Why do
people stick with that? Is that to soften our
ride to the eternal life of darkness or what?
It might be. I mean, we don't know until we die,
right? Yeah. But the people that think that it's
just over, when you die, it's over. Darkness.
Darkness, and then that's it. That might be right,
or it might be that you go to that place where
you go when you smoke DMT. It might be that.
You don't remember when you were born, do you?
You're not going to remember when you died. I
think if we're born again, we're not going to
remember the life we had. Not going to remember
this shit. I've always said everybody's scared
to die, but no one's scared to sleep. Some people
are. Some people are afraid to sleep. They get
their moments, but sometimes you think, wait,
I might not wake up this morning. You hear and
you know people at your school sleep having a
nice time with you, didn't do any drugs, and
they just don't even wake up. That's true too.
But the thing about sleep is you're pretty confident
you're going to come back so you're willing to
shut off. It's okay. But no one wants to shut
off forever. But listen, the belief that you're
going to come back is magnificent. Yeah. The
belief to know that we're going to wake up in
the morning. Imagine if we went into life like
that. Yeah. With that belief. Yeah. And you think
life is just temporary. And then when it's over,
you're going to go to an even more magnificent
place. When we say life, what life? Life is not
over when we leave this place. Right. It's another
form of life we haven't experienced yet. Right.
Even if it's the black life where it's just all
darkness, it's a part of life that we have to
embrace in some kind of form or fashion. Well,
that's the weird thing about the toad, right,
is that there's no visions. But the feeling's
so intense you see, right? The feeling's so intense
you even make up or whatever you see it from.
That's why feeling is so important. We just don't
even understand the feelings, the eye. We just
don't understand. They even lie to us. Our eyes
lie to us. I remember the first thing I felt
is so insignificant. Like you're just a part
of everything. You're part of the whole universe.
And instead of looking at yourself as a center
of the universe, when I did it, it just made
me realize like, no, you're part of this infinite
thing. And you're such a small part. Everyone
is such a small part. The universe itself is
what's big, and you're just a piece of it. We're
all just feeding each other. We're all just feeding
each other. Our bloods are just running to each
other, feeding to the holes, the dirt, the mud,
everything, the water, the ocean, the air. We're
just all feeding each other. The bugs. There's
more, listen, there's more stars in the space
than there are grains of sand in the desert.
Can you imagine that? It's ridiculous. What do
you think about aliens, Mike? I think we're aliens.
You think so? I think we're descendants of aliens.
Yeah? Yeah. That's the only thing I can comment.
If you can't explain, if you can only tell me
about Adam and Eve, I'm going to go with the
aliens. Hmm. If that's what you hit me with,
Adam and Eve, I'm going to go with these alien
guys. Well, there's a lot of people that believe
that we're the product of aliens, that aliens
came down and did some experiments with lower
hominids and did some accelerated genetic experiments
and created people. Well, listen, aliens, listen,
when certain tribes of people, I'm not saying
Caucasians when they came to Africa. Even before
that, when people came to other people, the first
time they seen them, they were aliens. An Asian
man saw a Caucasian man that was an alien. A
black man saw an Asian man, a white man that
was an alien. Maybe they weren't aliens, but
that's what they thought they were. They were
just a tribe of people that encountered them,
and perhaps they were getting extinct. They were
dying, and they had to breathe through. The lower,
whatever you were saying. Lower hominids. The
lower hominids, and maybe this is us. Because
they had certain, as you may know, because I
know you do these kind of researches, they already
discovered there are different forms of species
that's working down to us, that came from us,
and now we're at the degree of, I guess, we're
the human species of our era. Yeah, there was
a bunch of different kinds of humans. Yeah, there
was many, many different kinds of humans. And
before, they were here. millions of years before,
millions of years after we were erectus, after
we walked. They've always been here. It's very
rare that you can find a human life that wasn't
erectus. They could find a skeleton of one that
walked in all fours. The oldest person they found
is 4 .4 million years old. Lucy, I believe it
is. 4 .4 million years old is nothing. It's nothing
in terms of the universe, right? People were
erected then. People were walking on both feet
then. Yeah. You know, for years, 4 million years
ago. So they never found, I don't believe they
ever found the skeleton of a... A human that
wasn't erected. That's one of the things about
life is that life is so short. Oh, a twinkle
of an eye. If everything goes well, you live
100 years. But that is nothing in terms of the
life of the planet. You know how long it took
them to build the Great Wall of China? Thousands
of years. 2 ,000 years. Yeah. 2 ,000 years. Yeah.
Can you imagine that? And that's nothing. 2 ,000
years is... Less than what Christ has been around.
Christ is young. You know how young Christ is?
You know how young he is? In terms of the world,
yeah. Yeah. That's how bad they wanted to keep
the Mongols out. They built a fucking wall. It
took them thousands of years. You ever read about
Genghis Khan? Listen, his real name is Temujin.
Yeah. And he, let me tell you, what happened,
he's like 13 when he died, around 13, what, 14?
His real reign was like in the 12s and the early
1300s. And first of all, he came from, he's real
poor. His mother, his father, they all came,
they got beat up, they took out. He had a woman,
then they took his wife, but he got friendly
with a real bad mother, a real, he was a criminal,
but he was the baddest, oh, he was so bad. And
he loved Temujin. He just became, you know how
some guys see a guy and they just hit it off.
One guy, he was really weak at the time. And
this other gang had took his wife. And him and
this guy was making a lot of money, raiding stuff.
And he was just sad. He said, what is wrong?
Because the guy really loved him. He said, what
is wrong? He said, these people. Took my wife
and he said, don't worry, I got many a wife.
What are you worrying about that one wife? But
I really loved her because he really loved her.
And so the guy said, listen, I'm going to help
you get your wife back, but you don't ever tell
nobody that we raided this city because of a
woman, okay? And so he went back and the guy
got his wife back. And so the guy allowed Temujin
to be number two because he loved him so much.
But he got jealous because the men started favoring
Genghis because Genghis would let them raid everything.
He said, keep it all. He wouldn't keep it all,
let the men have it all. And they all started
looking up to him and following him, and then
the other guy got jealous, and eventually Gingas
had to kill him. But he said, Gingas didn't want
to do it, but he said, you have to kill me. And
so Gingas killed him, but he said, you're not
going to spill any blood, so he crushed him in
the rocks. So he wouldn't spill no blood, no
cuts or nothing like that. But that was his best
friend, and after he died, that's how Gingas
had the reputation. So you followed him. You
paid attention to him. You read a bunch of shit
about him. Yeah, and I named my dog after his
favorite wife, Paley. Oh, wow. So I know you've
been into that kind of shit, like Alexander the
Great and all the different conquerors. Yeah,
Pippin, Charlemagne, Clovis. Now, is this stuff
that you just studied because you wanted to study
conquerors that just interest you? I wanted to
study that mindset. You know, and I found that
the greatest conquerors that ever lived were
farmers. You know, farmers, sheep herders. Somebody
that we wouldn't think that's important and stuff.
And then as they became great through that. they
may have gave birth to great children who were
born with greatness like alexander the great
and stuff like philip the macedonian that whole
bloodline of alexander they were all kings but
they were all very small and insignificant until
it was one alexander before him that was pretty
great and fought against the persians but eventually
they lost and they pretty much kissed the persians
ass you know i mean the persians put them in
the position of power until um philip of philip
macedonia came who had the nickname aka philip
the barbarian and he wanted to go across and
enslave all the persians and everybody after
that the world and alexander the great mother
who was a really interesting woman um I'm trying
to say Albanian, maybe. And they had a different
kind of study and worship and stuff back then.
So he got caught up in that. His family didn't
like her for that. But she arranged for Alexander's
father, I think, to be killed for Alexander to
have the power. Then her kids had the power.
She could lead through her kids while he was
on campaigns, right? when he was on these campaigns
now that his father was gone, he just conquered
everything. But when he ran into the Afghani
people, he fell in love with them. He wanted
to interbreed with them. He wanted to create
a new race of Afghani. He just madly fell in
love with them. And that's pretty much why his
family, it's not his family, but the Greeks went,
what they went, mutiny on him because they were
jealous that they were giving big positions to
the... The Persians. No, Afghanistan. He loved
them. He even quoted Afghanistan as the most
beautiful people in the world. God must have
loved them more than anybody. He made them beautiful.
He really fell in love with them. When did you
start getting really into, like, Conquerors?
When you were 15. When you were 15? Yeah. What
introduced you to it? I was at the table eating
with Cuss and a friend of mine named Craig Walsett.
A statement, which he was wrong, but it sounds
really good to make me investigate. He said Alexander
the Great at his time was like 6 '5", so at 6
'5", 300 years before Christ, that was a giant,
which was wrong. He was very small. The armor
was too big for him. He was a really small guy.
He wasn't big at all. And so just that alone,
him saying that got you interested? Yeah, I wanted
him to say he was a monster, a massive guy, but
then I found out he's just a small man, average
guy. You know, he's not a mad monster at all.
Not a big man at all. But you got interested
in the mindset of the conquerors. Listen, this
is what I want to know. Why would one person
think that he could fucking own the whole world?
One person. Why would he have that mind? Who
would think like that? Why would a person? That's
not a fucking person. That's just something.
When your egos just got so out of whack, where
you just can't think rational. How do you think
like that? And you're a nice person. It was a
guy before him, a couple hundred years before
him, named Cyrus the Great. He was a conqueror,
but he was a conqueror for liberty. He wanted
to conquer all the slaves and let them go. Conquer
all the slave masses, let them go. He got killed
for that, too. Maybe that sounds cool, too, right?
That's a good thing. But listen, think about
it. Who the fuck is here to take somebody else's
property, take somebody else's stuff because
he believes it's wrong? Which it probably is
wrong. I think it's wrong. But who the fuck is
he? Who is this guy to conquer you? You don't
bother nobody, but this is what they did. Now
you're killing everybody. Back then, it was really
legal. It's almost in the Bible. It's in the
books. I won't say the Bible. It's in the books.
Slavery. It's in the books. It's in the religious
books that we need slaves. And this guy's going
to say, hey, no more slaves. He's 500 BC, so
he's going to say no more slaves. No more. Slavery
is wrong. out through the whole world. So he
wants to conquer the world and free all the slaves.
Wow. So that's just a different mindset. Yeah,
they're different kinds of mindsets that these
conquerors have. It's not universal. But who
do you think he is? Who the hell is he? He has
his little town over here. How is he going to
go over the whole world? His town is right here.
Well, forget his town. His country is right here.
Yeah. You know? And he didn't even conquer this
country, and now he's going to conquer the world
and liberate freedom, make freedom. Now, listen,
if that's not somebody on drugs, you tell me.
No, you tell me. Now, be honest. If that's not
somebody high, you tell me. It could be coke.
No, nigga, it's something. It's something. I'm
going to free everybody. At 500 B .C., slavery
is what it is. This is the way of the world.
No, I'm going to free all the slaves. That's
pretty crazy. Like, everybody. What did you get
out of, like, reading about their mindset? Like,
studying Temujin, studying Alexander the Great.
Like, what did you get out of reading about their
mindsets? I found out that the greatest ones,
the best, the most politic ones, were all mama's
boys. Really? Yeah, afraid of their mother. Wow.
Napoleon Alexander. You know what I mean? Wow.
Genghis Khan too? Yeah. Really? Yeah. What do
you think that is? Huh? What do you think that's
all about? Highly respect their mother. I think
their mothers were the first, especially Alexander
the Great, I think she was the first stage mother.
I think there was some before her too. You know?
Cleopatra, that's just what they were. They wanted
to lead through their sons or their daughters
or something like that. Oh, okay. Like that parent
that takes their kids to athletic events and
screams and cheers and pumps them up. No, no,
no, no. It's the parent whose child's word is
law, and I want to be able to have that word.
Okay. Do you get that? Yeah. My son is the king.
Right. This country, a couple of countries, but
I want my thought to come out of his mouth. Do
you think the parents convinced the child that
they were that special that they should run the
world? Some of them do, but as some kids get
older, like Ivan the Great, Ivan the Terrible,
they get older and then they realize these people
weren't right towards me and they start killing
his sponsors or the people that would represent
their parents and stuff. Some of the kings did
it too. So when you were studying this, when
you were coming up as a boxer and you're studying
all these conquerors, you were trying to understand
their mindsets. Yeah. And you were trying to
apply that to your own life? Pretty much, yeah.
Did you get anything out of it? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah.
What did you get? How did it apply to your own
life? Well, at the end of the day, they're all
ex -gods for forgiveness. All of them. So when
you're reading all these books about all these
conquerors, when you're a young man and you're
on your way to becoming the youngest ever heavyweight
champion and you're trying to take on the mindset
of the conquerors and you find out they all ask
God for forgiveness. Yes. How did that affect
you? That was pretty cool because by that I learned
greatness was the willingness to die. By you
know doing researching on these particular individuals,
and that's what they were willing to do for greatness
Mm -hmm, and you know you heard about Achilles
and stuff easy. He what did he want a short life
of? Greatness than a long life of obscurity.
Yeah, he took the short life, and that's what
Alexander did When you study these people and
you take that conqueror's mindset, did you get
anything out of that? Did you apply that into
your own pursuit as a champion? Absolutely. Because,
listen, Alexander the Great was 32 and he conquered
the known world in 10 years. And so thinking
about that as a young man. Absolutely. I want
my preeminence to vibe with the times, you know,
in the sands of time. It's not rain with it.
I think everybody should want that, that are
competitive in the art of, what do you say, immortality.
Yeah. And I'll search for it. That's what he
wanted. He wanted immortality. That's what he
wanted. He wanted to be known since, you know.
till the end of time. Did you ever think that
maybe you were born in the wrong time? That maybe
if you were born in the times of Alexander the
Great, you would also be a conqueror? No. I am
a conqueror now because I've conquered myself
and my demons. You know, not because I'm at that
time. I'm never born until I'm born in the right
time. Most of them couldn't conquer their demons.
That's why they ask for forgiveness from God,
all of them. Because just like the gentleman,
that discovered Alcohol is Anonymous. He inspired.
Maybe he had a problem with alcohol at the end,
but how many people have he inspired? That is
so much bigger than him succeeding or not with
his problem. You know, what's interesting about
him is he... Was interested in LSD. Bill Wilson,
yeah. Yeah, that was a big thing of his. That's
what instructed him to have the program, to develop
the program. Yeah. When you're talking about
they all would seek forgiveness from God, it's
so interesting to me that you turned to cannabis,
and cannabis allowed you to forgive yourself.
Yeah, listen, the reason why they asked for forgiveness
from God, this is why this is interesting that
you said that, is because they believed they
were God. And they just had to, at the end of
the day, realize and check themselves. But they're
not. Yeah. They're not God. And they've done
horrific things. Oh, yeah. At the end of his
life, he was so forgiving and giving everything
away and so sorry for everything. He didn't know
how to forgive himself either. He didn't know
how. How do you do that when you think you're
God? How do you forgive yourself? So at the end
of the day, he said, look, the man who conquered
the world. Died with nothing in his hand. He
gave everything away. Had no swords or nothing.
He was so freaked out about dying, being the
rich guy and stuff, and having so much property
and having the world like he possessed because
he had the world. There's this gentleman that
he, well, Eugenius, the guy that they named Sloth
after. The animal Sloth? Eugenius. I don't know,
but he was like, he's considered a homeless bum.
Nowadays. Today he would be called a bum, a homeless
guy, whatever. And Alexander had been watching
him. This is how keen he is. He's watched this
guy for years. And he said, listen, before he
became king of Greece, he's watched this guy.
This is when he was the king. And he said, hey,
listen, I watch you and I have everything. And
I'm unhappy and you don't have nothing. So what
can I do for you to make you happy? You know
what he said? You know what he had the balls
to say? He said, first of all, you can be kind
enough to move out the way of the sun and then
allow me to enjoy my day. And he couldn't conceive
of somebody to turn him down for riches and stuff.
He couldn't conceive of it. It just blew his
mind. He was so blown away, he couldn't even
kill a guy for disrespecting him. He was just
blown away. He said, I have everything. And he
realized he wasn't happy. He had it all. He's
the king of Greece. He didn't even know where
he was getting ready to go. He's getting ready
to be king of the world, but he's the king of
Greece, and he's just not happy. And he has everything.
So he thinks by conquering the world, it's going
to make him happy. And he did. And what happened?
He turned into a drug. Wow. Imagine that. It's
crazy. That's how he experienced a new drug.
Listen, when you went on a campaign, know what
I thought? I thought when you went on a campaign,
the movies lie. They say you go on a campaign,
there's just about 300 gladiators or what, or
10 ,000 soldiers. No, they bring their whole
family with them. It's like a party. Their wives,
their kids, everything. They got the surveyors
are with them. House builders are with them.
The people who deal with agriculture for that
time. Everything is with them. Wine, even before
they can test everything when they conquer. Conquering.
You know what conquering is? We think that's
glorious. Conquering is glorious. You know why
it is? A conqueror is robbing, raping, illegally
taking somebody else's goods and enslaving them.
That's conquering. That's not good people. All
the people we like, we say, these guys, this
guy, he conquered this, he conquered that. They
hurt people. They did it for greed. They didn't
do it for we're going to help our people. They
did it to take things because they could. Now,
when you were coming up as a fighter and you
were reading all these things about conquerors,
You were fueling your mind in that way, and you
were also studying a lot of fights. You studied
all the old school champions. Are you doing that
now in this resurgence? Are you studying films?
No, because I think I know everything about them
already. I did the research when I was a kid,
so I started going to the other level. So I go
from the level of these guys that are fighters,
the gladiators, all those guys, so I go from
them to the generals. and from the generals to
the gods and that but that occupied a lot of
your time when you were training right absolutely
yeah but that what are you doing now like did
there's anything that's similar that you did
like when you were watching those old school
tapes if you were watching like Jack Dempsey
or Harry Greb or any of these old school fighters.
There was something about that that was providing
you the inspiration. You were learning from it,
but it was also you getting yourself into this
mindset. Yeah, because I know if I was like these,
the coach would tell you, the more you win, the
more you beat these guys, the more the people
applaud, the more you enjoy doing it. And I wanted
the people, I wanted the people to... have the
same feeling towards me that I had towards the
older fighters of yesterday. I was madly in love
with fighters. And if I met a fighter hard, it
was just, hey, who's this kid? Get this kid out
of there. I would just bug him to death. Want
me to carry your bag? Can I help you with this?
Can I do this? You think they were going to like
you for being in the world. Hey, get this fucking
kid away. You're too enthusiastic. Yeah, I'm
too extreme. Carry your bag. Can I help you with
this? But you don't study films like that anymore?
Periodically. But you know what I do? Sometimes,
because I have YouTube, I look at YouTube and
I have a fight. Lomachenko. I said, let me check
him out. Let me check him out. Also, I may see
some Ray Robbins and some Willie Pep stuff. They
have one there. Let me check this out. Lomachenko's
a wild guy to watch, isn't he? He's really nice
to watch. Interesting, right? Yeah, I like watching
him. The footwork is so extraordinary. I just
like doing that. I like watching him. A lot of
people hate on him, but that's how it is. He
got the light. When people got the light, they
go after you. Who else gets you excited that's
fighting today? They got a couple of guys. Haney's
good. The guy from Baltimore is good. It's quite
a few. And they have a couple of guys that's
under them that's pretty good that's going to
come up and be really good with them. Errol Spence
is really good. Terrence Crawford. Terrence Crawford
is good. There's a bunch of good fighters out
there. That little guy, Ryan Garcia. Yes. He's
a little hot shit, right? He's a hot shit. He's
got a crazy left hook. He's talking shit. I love
it. He's like a kid. That baby. He's like talking
shit. He's so cute. He's a handsome guy. He's
a little baby talking shit. He's got a nasty
left hook, though. Woo. And all the fighters
now, they really into each other's face talking
shit. They're really friends, you can see, but
they're talking shit. Yeah. And I'm saying, I'm
an insecure guy. I hit a puncher right in the
face. Everybody might think I'm a punk and let
them do that to me. And these guys are friends
that look so cool. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think
of the heavyweight division nowadays? All right.
Joshua, everybody's good for their time. I don't
think they're bums or anything like that. Everybody
wants to have something negative to say about
somebody. You know, these guys, this is their
time. They're the best of their time. You got
to give them that credit. You can't compete them
with guys of the past or guys that are coming
up now. This is just their time. This is what
it is right now. Yeah, this is what it is right
now. This is the time we're going to judge it
from right here. What do you think? It's an interesting
group at the very top of the heap, right? Tyson
Fury, Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua. It's an
interesting group at the top level right now.
No, it's not interesting. They're all exciting
fighters. They're all going to make a great deal
of money if they just need to fight each other.
It's stop bullshitting. It's all fight each other.
Fight each other a couple of times. And then
when this stuff is over, your guys can say, hey,
listen, we did it our way. Right. You know, this
is what happened to me. I'm such an egomaniac.
I fell in love. This is going to last forever.
I'm the king forever. I'm always going to be
the king. This is the way it is. Fuck you. I
never think about tomorrow, nothing. This is
now. I'm the king. Just kiss my fucking ring.
This and that. And the fact is, I never listened.
This is what I didn't listen to because, hey.
It's always really, don't take this personal.
I took fighting personal. Because they don't
take it personal. It's not personal. I took it
personal. The ego makes me take it personal.
So when he said don't take it personal, what
did he mean by that? Don't allow it to stop you
from living your life in a happy perspective.
I lost a fight. Don't commit suicide. Start drinking
and doing cocaine. Start fucking girls without
brothers that you don't know. You met them 10
minutes ago. Don't do these things, okay? Don't
do these things or you lose a fight, Mike, okay?
Don't do these things. You lose a fight. You
shake the guy's hand. You go to the gym. You
work harder. Prepare for the fight. You win the
fight. You don't win the fight. You prepare harder.
Wait for the next fight. You win the fight, you
don't get to fight. Fight some other guys, you
win the fight, then fight them again. The name
of the game is that you stay busy, you keep working.
How much different would things have been if
Cuss stayed alive? Yes, really different. But
it wasn't meant for that to be. I had to figure
this stuff out. He couldn't protect me my whole
life. Right. You know? Yeah, I've always wondered.
I've always wondered what would have been different
if he had stayed alive. Because, I mean, he guided
you in such an amazing way. You know, and you...
Cuss was just, listen. Cuss was just a hard guy
to get along with. Cuss was just enemy prone.
If he didn't have an enemy, he would create one.
Really? One of those guys. He loved fighting.
He wants to fight. If he doesn't fight, he doesn't
want to live. Wow. He wants to fight. He needs
to have somebody to fight. If he doesn't have
somebody to fight, he'll find somebody to fight.
He must have loved having you as a pupil. Well,
I listened to everything he said. I listened
to him. I was around him. He loved people who
listened to him. And I took him to everything
he said I would do. If he told me to kill somebody,
I would kill somebody. You know? Anything he
said, I did it. Do you think about him even today
while you're training? Absolutely. Absolutely.
I think about him all the time. You know what
I mean? I think about him all the time. I wish
he could have seen my kids. I wish you could
have probably seen, you know, what I did, how
I did, and how my kids turned out, and how they
all went to great schools, and they did cool
things, and they're just kids, and they're really,
they're just really sweet kids that really don't
understand life yet, and maybe because they didn't
have a father like I had, things are different
than it was for me. You don't want your kids
fighting. No. I did that. That's why I did it.
I didn't have to. I remember you were talking
about your son hitting pads and him possibly
fighting. Man, you don't want to fight an animal
like me. There's people that have nothing to
lose. The whole dream is about if I beat this
guy, I'll get that new bike. I might get this
car. That's how it was. Because if you win this
tournament, I'm going to get you this. If you
win this tournament, I'll get you your gold teeth.
I will try to save my money up for my gold teeth.
And if I win this tournament, he said, you win
this tournament, I'll get your gold teeth. Everything,
he always... Dangled a carrot. Yeah. You win
this tournament, I'll do this. But if I didn't
win the tournament, I didn't get the shit. You
know, I thought he was going to say, I'll give
it to you anyway. No, I don't get it. No. I don't
get it. Well, listen, Mike, I'm very excited
about your comeback. I am as well. I'm very happy
that you're doing it. I'm happy you look fantastic.
It was real cool to be able to sit down and talk
to you about it, and I'm 100 % enthusiastic about
it. Listen, sir, I look forward to seeing you
there because I'm sure some people will be there,
and we're excited. I would try to be there live.
I would love to be there live if it's possible,
if I could be there. I'm just going to love this
shit. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited looking
at you being fit and how enthusiastic you are,
and I wish you nothing but the best, brother.
Thank you. Thank you. The same with you, man.
You have so much success in doing your little
podcast here, man. Thanks, brother. Shit. Who
would you want to interview? I don't have anybody
in my head that I need to interview. You want
to do Bill Clinton and none of those guys? I'd
like to do Bill Clinton. I'd like to get high
with Bill Clinton. Oh, fuck. You know, he has
a brother named Roger. He's such an awesome guy.
Yeah? Yeah, I saw Roger before at my friend's
house. And Roger is just a beautiful person.
Yeah. But I don't need to. I would. If he wanted
to do it, I would do it, but I don't need to.
I like talking to everybody, man. I like talking
to my friends. I like talking to you. I like
talking to anybody. You know what I did a couple
of times? I talked to some homeless people, and
they're very interesting. Sometimes I think I'm
going to overwhelm them intellectually, and I
get humbled sometimes. Well, a lot of homeless
people are really smart. They're just fucked
up. Whatever part of your head that you couldn't
keep it together. That's what I mean. I think
I know this guy's out and dirty and teeth fell
out and this guy started enlightening me and
shit. And then he has to tell me to leave because
I'm stuck there. Tell me I'm going to get out
of here. Are you enjoying doing hot boxing? Hey,
listen, I haven't done it in a while since this
stuff. Since you started training? Yeah, and
that's cool, too. That's cool, too. I don't think
I'm a good host while I'm under this kind of
duration. I understand. Yeah. No, like I said,
I could see the intensity. You're ramped up right
now. You're a different person than the last
time I talked to you. Yeah, I guess. But excited.
It's exciting. That's what my wife thought. She
shouldn't have told me to get on that treadmill.
Really, she doesn't believe it. You predicted
it, man. You predicted it on this show. You said,
I don't want to reignite my ego. Yeah. And you
did it. But I'm excited that you did it. I'm
excited. I can't wait for November 28th. Man,
listen. God, man. I've been working. I'm going
to show you when I leave here then. Okay. All
right. Show me. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, brother.
Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Bye, everybody.
Woo! Yeah, let me show you something, man. I
want to show you me and Ro.