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"Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #1470. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Brain-Machine Interfaces (Neuralink), Aerospace Engineering, and Artificial General Intelligence."

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you, and congratulations. Thank you. You will

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never forget what is going on in the world when

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you think about when your child was born. You

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will know for the rest of this child's life,

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you were born during a weird time. That's for

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sure. That is for sure. Probably the weirdest

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that I can remember. Yeah. Yeah, and he was born

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on May the 4th. And that's hilarious, too. Yeah.

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May the 4th be with him. Yeah, exactly. It has

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to be. I sure hope so. Perfect. Yes. I mean,

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that was the perfect day for you. And how do

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you say the name? Well. Is it a placeholder?

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First of all, my partner is the one that actually

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mostly came up with the name. Congratulations

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to her. Yeah, yeah, she's great at names. So,

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I mean, it's just X, the letter X. And then the

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AE is pronounced Ash. Yeah. And then A -12 is

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my contribution. Oh, why A -12? Archangel 12,

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the precursor to the SR -71, coolest plane ever.

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It's true. I agree with you. I don't know. I'm

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not familiar with it. I know what the SR -71

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is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know what that is. So

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the SR -71 came from a CIA program called Archangel.

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Oh. It's the Archangel Project. Oh. And then

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Archangel 12. Oh, wow, what a dope -looking plane.

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Yeah. Oh, okay, I get it. Yeah, yeah. Well, as

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a person who's very much into aerial travel,

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as you are, that's perfect. That's pretty great.

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Yeah, pretty great. So does it feel strange to

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have a child while this craziness is going? You've

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had children before. Is this any weirder? Actually,

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I think it's better being older and having a

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kid. I appreciate it more. Yeah. Babies are awesome.

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They are pretty awesome. They are awesome, yeah.

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When I didn't have any of my own, I would see

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other people's kids, and I didn't. Not like them.

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Sure. But I wasn't drawn to them. Sure. But now

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when I see little people's kids, I'm like, oh,

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I think of them like these little love packages.

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Yeah, little love bugs. Yeah. It's just you think

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of them differently when you see them come out

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and then grow and then eventually start talking

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to you. Like your whole idea what a baby is is

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very different. Yeah. So now as you, you know,

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get older and get to appreciate it as a mature,

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fully formed adult, it must be really pretty

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wonderful. Yeah. Wonderful. It's great. Babies

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are awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I mean,

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also, I've spent a lot of time on AI and neural

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nets. And so you can sort of see the kind of

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brain develop, which is, you know, an AI neural

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net is trying to simulate what a brain does,

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basically. And you can sort of see it learning

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very quickly. You know, it's just, wow. So you're

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talking about the neural net. You're not talking

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about an actual baby. I'm talking about an actual

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baby. But both of them. Yes, but the word neural

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net comes from the brain. It's like a net of

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neurons. So, you know, it's like the, yeah, humans

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are the, you know, original gangsta neural net.

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That's a great way to put it. So when you're...

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programming artificial intelligence or you're

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working with artificial intelligence, are they

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specifically trying to mimic the developmental

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process of a human brain? In a lot of ways. There's

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some ways that are different. An analogy that's

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often used is like we don't make a submarine

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swim like a fish, but we take the principles

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of hydrodynamics and apply them to a submarine.

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I've always wondered as a layperson, do you try

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to achieve the same results as a human brain

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but through different methods, or do you try

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to copy the way a human brain achieves results?

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I mean, the essential elements of an AI neural

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net are really very similar to a human brain

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neural net. It's having the multiple layers of

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neurons. You know, back propagation. All these

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things are what your brain does. You know, it's

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sort of, yeah. You have a layer of neurons that

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goes through a series of intermediate steps to

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ultimately cognition, and then it'll reverse

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those steps and go back and forth and go all

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over the place. It's, yeah, it's interesting,

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very interesting. Yeah, I would imagine. like

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the thought of programming something that is

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eventually going to be smarter than us, that

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one day it's going to be like, why did you do

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it that way? Like when artificial intelligence

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becomes sentient, they're like, oh, you tried

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to mimic yourself. Like there's so much better

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process. Cut out all this nonsense. Like I said,

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there are elements that are the same, but just

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like an aircraft does not fly like a bird. Right.

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It doesn't flap its wings. But the wings... The

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way the wings work and generate lift is the same

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as bird. Now, you're in the middle of this strange

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time where you're selling your houses. You say

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you don't want any material possessions. I've

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been seeing all that, and I've been really excited

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to talk to you about this. Yeah. Because it's

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an interesting thing to come from a guy like

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yourself. Why are you doing that? I'm slightly

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sad about it, actually. If you're sad about it,

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why are you doing it? I think possessions kind

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of weigh you down. They're kind of an attack

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vector. You know, people say, hey, billionaire,

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you got all this stuff. Like, well, now I don't

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have stuff. Now what are you going to do? Attack

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vector meaning like people target it. Yeah. Interesting.

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Yeah. But you're obviously going to – so you're

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going to rent a place? Yeah. Okay. And get rid

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of everything except clothes? No, I said like

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almost everything. So it's like... Keep a couple

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Teslas. Yeah, sure. Tesla, kind of have to. Yeah.

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Test product and stuff. Yeah, those things that

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have sentimental value, for sure, are keeping

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those, you know. Yeah. So do you feel like...

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What's worse that could happen? I mean, we're

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fine. Yeah. You could always buy more stuff if

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you don't like it. I suppose so. Yeah. I mean,

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from the money that you sell all your stuff,

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you could buy new stuff. But do you feel like

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people, define you by the fact that you're wealthy

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and that they define you in a pejorative way?

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For sure. I mean, not everyone, but for sure

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in recent years, billionaire has become a pejorative.

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It's like that's a bad thing, which I think doesn't

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make a lot of sense in most cases. If you basically

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organized a... So how does this wealth arise?

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It's if you organize people in a better way to

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produce products and services that are better

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than what existed before and you have some ownership

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in that company, then that essentially gives

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you the right to allocate more capital. So there's

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a conflation of consumption and capital allocation.

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I mean, say Warren Buffett, for example, and

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to be totally frank, I'm not his biggest fan,

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but he does a lot of capital allocation. And

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he reads a lot of sort of annual reports of companies

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and all the accounting, and it's pretty boring,

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really. And he's trying to figure out, does Coke

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or Pepsi deserve more capital? I mean, that's

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kind of a boring job, if you ask me. You know,

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it's still a thing that's important to figure

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out, like, which is a company deserving of more

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or less capital? Should that company grow or

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expand? Is it making products and services that

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are better than others or worse? And, you know,

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if a company is making compelling products and

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services, it should get more capital. And if

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it's not, it should get less or go out of business.

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Well, there's a big difference, too, between

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someone who's making an incredible amount of

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money. designing and engineering fantastic products

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versus someone who's making an incredible amount

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of money by investing in companies or moving

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money around in the stock market or doing things

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along those lines. It's a different thing. And

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to put them all in the same category seems, it's

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very simple. And as you pointed out, it's an

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attack vector. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think

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it's really... I do think in the United States

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especially, there's an over -allocation of talent

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in finance and law. Basically, too many smart

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people go into finance and law. So this is both

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a compliment and a criticism. We should have,

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I think, fewer people doing law and fewer people

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doing finance and more people making stuff. Yeah.

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Yeah. Well, that would certainly be better for

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all involved if they made better stuff. Yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, manufacturing

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used to be highly valued in the United States.

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And these days it's not. It's often looked down

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upon, which I think is wrong. Yeah. Well, I think

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that people are kind of learning that particularly

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because of this whole pandemic and this relationship

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that we have with China, that it. There's a lot

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of value into making things, into making things

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here. Yes. Somebody's got to do the real work.

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Yeah. You know, and, you know, like making a

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car, it's an honest day's living, that's for

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sure. You know, or making anything, really, or

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providing a valuable service, like providing,

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you know, good entertainment, good information.

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These are all valuable things to do. You know,

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so, yeah, there should be more of it. Did you

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have a moment where, is this something that this

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idea of getting rid of your material possessions,

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is this something that built up over time? Or

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did you have a moment of realization where you

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realized that? Yeah, I've been thinking about

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it for a while. You know, part of it is like

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I have a bunch of houses, but I don't spend a

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lot of time in most of them. And that doesn't

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seem like a good. use of assets, like somebody

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could probably be enjoying those houses and get

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better use of them than me. Don't you have Gene

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Wilder's house? I do. That's amazing. It's awesome.

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Wow. It's exactly what you'd expect. Did you

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request that the buyer not fuck it up? Yeah,

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that's a requirement. Oh, a requirement. That's

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a good requirement. Yeah. In that case, in that

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house. Yeah, it'll probably sell for less, but

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still I don't care. He's a legend. He would want

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his soul. You'd want his essence in the building.

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And it's there. That's a real quirky house, yeah.

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What makes you say it's there? What do you get

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out of it? I mean, all the cabinets are, like,

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handmade, and they're, like, odd shapes. And

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there's, like, doors to nowhere and strange,

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like, corridors and tunnels and odd paintings

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on the wall. Yeah. Did you ever live in it? It's

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very quirky. I did live in it briefly, yeah.

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But why do you buy houses? Like if you own all

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these houses, do you just get bored and go, I

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think I'd like to have that? Well, I had one

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house, and then the Gene Wilder house right across

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the road from me, from my main house, and it

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was going to get sold and then torn down and

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turned into be a big construction zone for three

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years. And I was like, well, I think I'll buy

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it and preserve the spirit of June Wilder and

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not have a giant construction zone. And then

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I started having some privacy issues where people

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would – lots of people would just come to my

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house and start climbing over the walls and stuff.

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I'm like, man. So then I said, like, what a house,

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some of the houses around my house. And then

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I thought at one point, well, you know, it would

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be cool to build a house. So then I acquired

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some properties at the top of Samara Road, which

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has got a great view. And I was like, okay, well,

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these bunch of sort of small, older houses, they're

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going to get torn down anyway. I was like, well,

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you know, if I collect these, like, little houses,

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then I can. Build something, I don't know, artistic,

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like a dream house type of thing. What's a dream

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house for Elon Musk? Like some Tony Stark type

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shit? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you've got to have

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the dome that opens up with the stealth helicopter

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and that kind of thing. Yeah. For sure. Fuck

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yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah. But then I was like, man,

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does it really make sense for me to spend time?

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designing and building a house, then I'd be real,

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you know, get OCD on the little details and the

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design. Or should I be allocating that time to

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getting us to Mars? I should probably do the

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latter. So, you know, like what's more important,

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Mars or a house? I like Mars. Okay. Is that really

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how you think? Like that it'd be better off planning

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on a trip to Mars or getting people to Mars?

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Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, you can only

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do so many things. Right. I don't know how you

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do what you do anyway. I don't understand how

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you can run the boring company, Tesla, SpaceX,

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all these different things you're doing constantly.

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I don't understand. I mean, you explained last

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time you were here how you sort of allocate your

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time and how hectic it is and insane. I still

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don't. The productivity is baffling. It just

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doesn't make sense how you can get so much done.

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Well, I think I do have high productivity, but

00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:56.120
even with that, there's still some opportunity

00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:00.259
cost of time. And allocating time to building

00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:03.179
a house, even if it was a really great house,

00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:08.139
still is not a good use of time relative to developing

00:15:08.139 --> 00:15:11.820
the rockets necessary to get us to Mars and helping

00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:16.080
solve sustainable energy. SpaceX and Tesla are

00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:23.850
by far the most amount of brain cycles. Boring

00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:27.929
Coveted does not take less than 1 % of brain

00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:31.769
cycles. And then there's Neuralink, which is,

00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:37.710
I don't know, maybe it's like 5%. 5%. That's

00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:39.309
a good chunk. It's a good chunk, yeah, yeah.

00:15:39.409 --> 00:15:41.049
We were talking about that last time, and you

00:15:41.049 --> 00:15:43.750
were trying to figure out when it was actually

00:15:43.750 --> 00:15:46.289
going to go live, when it's actually going to

00:15:46.289 --> 00:15:48.970
be available. Are you testing on people right

00:15:48.970 --> 00:15:51.840
now? No, we're not testing people yet, but I

00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.159
think it won't be too long. I think we may be

00:15:55.159 --> 00:16:01.820
able to implant a Neuralink in less than a year

00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:07.840
in a person, I think. And when you do this, is

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.179
there any test that you have to do before you

00:16:10.179 --> 00:16:13.019
do something like this to see what percentage

00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:15.519
of people's bodies are going to reject these

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:20.870
things? Is there a potential for rejection? It's

00:16:20.870 --> 00:16:23.389
a very low potential for rejection. I mean, you

00:16:23.389 --> 00:16:27.110
can think of it like people put in, you know,

00:16:27.149 --> 00:16:32.070
heart monitors and, you know, things for epileptic

00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:36.029
seizures and deep brain stimulation. Obviously,

00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:39.129
like, you know, artificial hips and knees and

00:16:39.129 --> 00:16:42.070
that kind of thing. So the probability of, I

00:16:42.070 --> 00:16:43.450
mean, like, so it's well known, like, what will

00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:47.200
cause rejection and what will not. It's definitely

00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:53.039
hotter when you've got something that is sort

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:57.500
of reading and writing neurons. That's generating

00:16:57.500 --> 00:17:00.139
a current pulse and reading current pulses. That's

00:17:00.139 --> 00:17:07.220
a little hotter than, say, a passive device.

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:12.579
But it's still very doable. There are people

00:17:12.579 --> 00:17:14.759
who have primitive devices in their brains right

00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.009
now. What kind of devices? Well, like deep brain

00:17:18.009 --> 00:17:22.109
stimulation is, I think for Parkinson's, has

00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:27.730
really changed people's lives in a big way, which

00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:30.410
is kind of remarkable because it kind of like

00:17:30.410 --> 00:17:33.690
zaps your brain. It's like kicking the TV type

00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:37.190
of thing. And you think like, man, kicking the

00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:39.789
TV shouldn't work. It does sometimes. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:42.470
The old TVs. It did. My grandpa used to slap

00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:45.220
the top. For sure. Yeah. It would work sometimes.

00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.299
Yeah. So this deep brain simulation implanted

00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:50.920
devices in the brain that have changed people's

00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:53.220
lives for the better, like fundamentally. Well,

00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:55.579
let's talk about what you can talk about to what

00:17:55.579 --> 00:17:57.599
Neuralink is because the last time you were here,

00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:00.119
we really couldn't discuss it. And then there

00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.700
was, I guess, a press release or something that

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:04.420
sort of outlined. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. That

00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:06.599
happened quite a bit after the last time you

00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.960
were here. So what exactly is it? How do you

00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:13.920
do – what happens if someone – ultimately does

00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.319
get a Neuralink installed, what will take place?

00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:20.259
Well, for version one of the device, it would

00:18:20.259 --> 00:18:28.299
be basically implanted in your skull. But it

00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:31.259
would be flush with your skull. So you basically

00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:36.440
take out a chunk of skull, put the Neuralink

00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:42.220
device in there. You'd insert the electrode threads

00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:49.519
very carefully into the brain, and then you stitch

00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.940
it up, and you wouldn't even know that somebody

00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:57.599
has it. And so then it can interface basically

00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.599
anywhere in your brain. So it could be something

00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:06.259
that helps cure, say, eyesight. Returns your

00:19:06.259 --> 00:19:08.180
eyesight, even if you've lost your optic nerve

00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:11.019
type of thing. Really? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.480
Hearing, obviously. I mean, pretty much anything

00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.619
that we're... It could, in principle, fix almost

00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:22.240
anything that is wrong with the brain. And it

00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:27.460
could restore limb functionality. So if you've

00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:31.390
got... interface into the motor cortex and then

00:19:31.390 --> 00:19:35.269
an implant that's, say, that's like a microcontroller

00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:40.329
near muscle groups, you could then create sort

00:19:40.329 --> 00:19:44.750
of a neural shunt that restores somebody who

00:19:44.750 --> 00:19:48.269
is a quadriplegic to full functionality. Like

00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:51.910
they can walk around, be normal. Whoa. Yeah.

00:19:51.990 --> 00:19:55.740
Maybe slightly better. Slightly better? Over

00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:58.700
time, yes. You mean with future iterations? Like

00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:00.740
the $6 million man, although these days that

00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:06.359
doesn't seem like much. $6 billion man. So the

00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.539
hole would be small. How big would the hole be

00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:11.799
that you have to drill and then replace with

00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:17.259
this piece? It's only one hole? Well, yeah, the

00:20:17.259 --> 00:20:20.480
device we're working on right now is about an

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.789
inch in diameter. And your skull's pretty thick,

00:20:24.849 --> 00:20:27.930
by the way. Mine is, for sure. It might actually

00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:31.670
literally be. I mean, if you're a big guy, your

00:20:31.670 --> 00:20:35.589
skull is actually fairly thick. Skull is like

00:20:35.589 --> 00:20:39.769
7 to 14 millimeters. Mine's probably a couple

00:20:39.769 --> 00:20:42.309
of inches. A half inch. Half inch thick skull

00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:46.970
-ish. Yeah, yeah. So that's a fair bit of...

00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.119
We've got quite a coconut going on there. It's

00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.779
not like some eggshell. Oh, yeah, I believe you.

00:20:53.460 --> 00:20:58.200
So, yeah, you basically implant the device. And

00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.759
so it would be like a one -inch square or one

00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.119
-inch in diameter? Yeah, like a— So an inch circle,

00:21:04.299 --> 00:21:07.099
like a circular? Yeah, I think like a smartwatch

00:21:07.099 --> 00:21:11.259
or something like that. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay,

00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:14.140
so you take this one -inch diameter, like ice

00:21:14.140 --> 00:21:17.000
fishing, right? You ever go ice fishing? No,

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.019
but I'd like to. It's great. It's really fun.

00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.559
So you basically take an auger, and you drill

00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.420
through the surface of the ice, and you create

00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:28.700
a small hole, and you can dunk your line in there.

00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:30.799
So this is like that. You're ice fishing on the

00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.940
top of your skull, and then you cork it. Yeah,

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.619
and you replace that, say, one -inch diameter

00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:41.960
piece of skull with this. Neuralink device. And

00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.740
that has a battery and a Bluetooth and an inductive

00:21:45.740 --> 00:21:50.859
charger. And then you also get to insert the

00:21:50.859 --> 00:21:53.339
electrodes. So the electrodes are very carefully

00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:58.980
inserted with our robot that we developed. It's

00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:01.099
very carefully putting in the electrodes and

00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:05.680
avoiding any veins or arteries. So it doesn't

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:08.819
create trauma. So through this one -inch diameter?

00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:12.960
Yeah. Electrodes be inserted, and they will find

00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.099
their way. Like tiny wires, basically. Tiny wires.

00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.980
Tiny wires. And they'll find their way to specific

00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.140
areas of the brain to stimulate? No, you literally

00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:23.420
put them where they're supposed to go. Oh, okay.

00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:27.579
Yeah. How long will these wires be? I mean, they

00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:31.039
usually go in, like, you know, depending on where

00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.279
it is, like, you know, two or three millimeters.

00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:40.660
So they just find the spots? Yeah. Wow. And then

00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:47.579
you put the device in, and that replaces the

00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:50.660
little piece of skull that was taken out. And

00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:55.859
then you stitch up the hole, and you just have

00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:58.579
like a little scar, and that's it. Well, this

00:22:58.579 --> 00:23:00.819
would be replaceable or reversible? Yes. Like

00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:03.000
if someone can't take it anymore? I'm too smart.

00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:04.690
I can't take it. Yeah, you can totally check

00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:08.750
it out. And what is the, besides restoring limb

00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:10.809
function and eyesight and hearing, which are

00:23:10.809 --> 00:23:13.349
all amazing, is there any cognitive benefits

00:23:13.349 --> 00:23:14.930
that you anticipate from something like this?

00:23:16.069 --> 00:23:21.609
Yeah, I mean, you could for sure. I mean, basically,

00:23:21.690 --> 00:23:32.410
it's a generalized sort of. thing for fixing

00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:35.369
any kind of brain injury in principle. Or if

00:23:35.369 --> 00:23:37.470
you've got severe epilepsy or something like

00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:40.309
that, it could just sort of stop the epilepsy

00:23:40.309 --> 00:23:42.650
from occurring. It could detect it in real time

00:23:42.650 --> 00:23:46.170
and then fire a counterpulse and stop the epilepsy.

00:23:48.309 --> 00:23:52.630
I mean, there's a whole range of brain injuries.

00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:54.750
If somebody gets a stroke, they could lose the

00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:59.759
ability to speak. that could also be fixed. So

00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.000
if you've got, like, stroke damage or you lose,

00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.500
say, muscle control over part of your face or

00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:08.799
something like that. And then when you get old,

00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:12.920
you tend to, if you get, like, Alzheimer's or

00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.700
something like that, then you lose memory, and

00:24:15.700 --> 00:24:18.460
this could help you with restoring your memory,

00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:20.759
that kind of thing. We're storing memory. And

00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.400
what is happening that's allowing it to do that?

00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.700
Like the wires, these small wires, they're stimulating

00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:28.720
these areas of the brain. And then is it that

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.019
the areas of the brain are – they're losing some

00:24:32.019 --> 00:24:34.259
sort of electrical force? Like what is happening?

00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.740
Yeah. Yeah? It's like – think of it as like a

00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:41.000
bunch of circuits and there's some like circuits

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:46.049
that are broken and we can like – Fix those circuits.

00:24:46.789 --> 00:24:49.589
Substitute for those circuits. And so a specific

00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:52.750
frequency will go through this? Yeah. Specific

00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:57.869
in that is the process figuring out how much

00:24:57.869 --> 00:25:01.529
or how little has to be, how much these areas

00:25:01.529 --> 00:25:04.250
of the brain have to be juiced up? Yeah. I mean,

00:25:04.250 --> 00:25:06.750
there's still a lot of work to do. So when I

00:25:06.750 --> 00:25:09.349
say, you know, we got a shot at probably putting

00:25:09.349 --> 00:25:14.430
in a person in. you know, within a year. I think

00:25:14.430 --> 00:25:16.509
that's exactly what I mean. I think we have a

00:25:16.509 --> 00:25:19.190
chance of putting input into one and having them

00:25:19.190 --> 00:25:24.130
be healthy and restoring some functionality that

00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:27.769
they've lost. The fear is that eventually you're

00:25:27.769 --> 00:25:29.529
going to have to cut the whole top of someone's

00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:33.089
head off and put a new top with a whole bunch

00:25:33.089 --> 00:25:36.029
of wires if you want to get, you know, the real

00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:45.579
turbocharged version, Brain stimulation? I mean,

00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.559
ultimately, if you want to go with full AI symbiosis,

00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:53.220
you'll probably want to do something like that.

00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:55.559
Symbiosis is a scary word when it comes to AI.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.720
It's optional. I would hope so. It's just, I

00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.240
mean, once you enjoy the Dr. Manhattan lifestyle,

00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:12.099
once you become a god, it seems very... Very

00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:13.819
unlikely. You're going to want to go back to

00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:16.680
being stupid again. I mean you literally could

00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:19.200
fundamentally change the way human beings interface

00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.880
with each other. Yes. Yes. You wouldn't need

00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:28.940
to talk. I'm so scared of that but so excited

00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:32.720
about it at the same time. Is that weird? Yeah.

00:26:32.779 --> 00:26:36.819
I mean I think this is one of the paths to –

00:26:42.509 --> 00:26:46.569
Like, AI is getting better and better. So now

00:26:46.569 --> 00:26:48.529
let's assume it's sort of like a benign AI scenario.

00:26:49.829 --> 00:26:51.630
Even in a benign scenario, we're kind of left

00:26:51.630 --> 00:26:54.609
behind. You know, we're not along for the ride.

00:26:55.509 --> 00:26:59.630
We're just too dumb. So how do you go along for

00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.089
the ride? So you can't beat them, join them.

00:27:04.950 --> 00:27:09.039
And we're already... We're already a cyborg to

00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:10.839
some degree, right? Because you've got your phone,

00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:13.220
you've got your laptop. Glasses. Yeah, yeah,

00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:19.740
your electronic devices. And, I mean, today if

00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:22.660
you don't bring your phone along, it's like you

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:25.819
have missing limb syndrome. It feels like something's

00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:30.200
really, really missing. So we're already partly

00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:40.299
a cyborg. or an AI symbiote, essentially. It's

00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:42.819
just that the data rate to the electronics is

00:27:42.819 --> 00:27:48.019
slow, especially output. You're just going with

00:27:48.019 --> 00:27:53.259
your thumbs. What's your data rate? Optimistically,

00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.680
100 bits per second. That's being generous. And

00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.640
now the computer can communicate at 100 terabits.

00:28:05.299 --> 00:28:08.619
So certainly, you know, gigabits are trivial

00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:13.640
at this point. So this is like, you know, basically

00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:17.440
your computer could do things a million times

00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:23.180
faster. At a certain point, the AI is like talking

00:28:23.180 --> 00:28:27.279
to a tree. Okay, this is boring. You can talk

00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:35.289
to a tree. It's not very entertaining. So if

00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:39.089
you can solve the data rate issue, especially

00:28:39.089 --> 00:28:44.049
output but input too, then you can improve the

00:28:44.049 --> 00:28:47.529
symbiosis that is already occurring between man

00:28:47.529 --> 00:28:51.869
and machine. So you can improve it in what –

00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:54.130
when you said you won't have to talk to each

00:28:54.130 --> 00:28:56.569
other anymore. We used to joke around about that.

00:28:56.630 --> 00:28:58.269
I've joked around about that a million times

00:28:58.269 --> 00:29:00.509
in this podcast, that one day in the future there's

00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:02.069
going to come a time where you can read each

00:29:02.069 --> 00:29:05.009
other's minds. You'll be able to interface with

00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:07.910
each other in some sort of a non -verbal, non

00:29:07.910 --> 00:29:10.910
-physical way where you will transfer data back

00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:13.269
and forth to each other without having to actually

00:29:13.269 --> 00:29:19.259
use your mouth and make noises. Exactly. Like

00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.079
what happens when you – let's say you've got

00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:22.680
some complex idea that you're trying to convey

00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.859
to somebody else. And how do you do that? Well,

00:29:26.019 --> 00:29:28.920
your brain spends a lot of effort compressing

00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:35.160
a complex concept into words. And there's a lot

00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:38.480
of loss, information loss that occurs when –

00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:41.849
compressing a complex concept into words. And

00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:43.470
then you say those words, those words are then

00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:45.109
interpreted, then they're decompressed by the

00:29:45.109 --> 00:29:48.529
person who is listening. And they will at best

00:29:48.529 --> 00:29:51.970
get a very incomplete understanding of what you're

00:29:51.970 --> 00:29:54.089
trying to convey. It's very difficult to convey

00:29:54.089 --> 00:29:57.049
a complex concept with precision. Because you've

00:29:57.049 --> 00:30:02.269
got compression, decompression, you may not even

00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:06.970
have heard all the words correctly. And so communication

00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:09.400
is difficult. What we have here is a failure

00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.039
to communicate. It's a cool ad -look. Yes, and

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.420
it's a great movie. Yeah, great movie. There's

00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:18.880
an interpretation factor, too. You can choose

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:23.400
to interpret certain series of words in different

00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.759
ways, and they're dependent upon tone, dependent

00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:31.359
upon social cues, even facial expressions, sarcasm.

00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:33.880
There's a lot of variables. Sarcasm is difficult.

00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:39.119
Yes. Yeah. and so one of the things that i i've

00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:41.579
said is like that there could be potentially

00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:45.190
a universal language that's created through computers

00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:47.990
that particularly young kids would pick up very

00:30:47.990 --> 00:30:50.730
quickly. Like, my kids do TikTok and all this

00:30:50.730 --> 00:30:52.529
jazz, and I don't know what they're doing. They

00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:53.930
just know how to do it. And they know how to

00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:55.750
do it really quickly. Like, they learn really

00:30:55.750 --> 00:30:57.269
quickly, and they show me how to edit things.

00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:01.849
If you taught a child from first grade on how

00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:04.869
to use some new universal language, I mean, essentially

00:31:04.869 --> 00:31:08.849
like a Rosetta Stone and something that's done

00:31:08.849 --> 00:31:13.220
that interprets. your thoughts and you can convey

00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:16.119
your thoughts with no room for interpretation

00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:20.799
with clear very clear where you know what a person's

00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:23.660
saying and you can tell them what you're saying

00:31:23.660 --> 00:31:26.799
and there's no need for noises no need for mouth

00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.839
noises no need for yes these sort of accepted

00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.400
ways that we've sort of evolved to make sounds

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.980
that we all agree. Through our cultural dictionary,

00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.839
we agree. We could bypass all that. You could

00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:47.440
still do it for sentimental reasons. Like campfires.

00:31:48.019 --> 00:31:50.400
Yeah, exactly. You don't need campfires. You

00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.240
don't need to roast marshmallows. It's kind of

00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:59.960
fun. So, yeah. I think you would be able to communicate

00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:08.579
very quickly and with far more precision ideas.

00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.960
And language would... I'm not sure what would

00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.259
happen to language. But you could probably...

00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:18.099
In a situation like this, you would be able to

00:32:18.099 --> 00:32:19.180
just... It would be kind of like the Matrix.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:20.759
You want to speak a different language in a problem.

00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.539
Right. That's why it was downloaded the program.

00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.740
Right. So at least for the first iterations,

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.619
first few iterations. I know that Google has

00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:38.539
some of their Pixel Buds have the ability to

00:32:38.539 --> 00:32:41.680
interpret languages in real time. Sure. Yeah,

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:44.259
you can hear it and it will play things back

00:32:44.259 --> 00:32:46.579
to you in whatever language you choose. So it

00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:50.259
would be something along those lines for the

00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:53.660
first few iterations. Well, the first few iterations

00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:56.099
are – what I'm talking about is like in the limit

00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:59.809
over time. with a lot of development. The first

00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:03.089
few iterations, really in the first few versions,

00:33:03.150 --> 00:33:04.890
all we're going to be trying to do is solve brain

00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:09.349
injuries. Don't worry, that's not going to sneak

00:33:09.349 --> 00:33:12.970
up on you. This will take a while. How many years?

00:33:15.009 --> 00:33:21.230
Before you don't have to talk. If the development

00:33:21.230 --> 00:33:29.380
continues to accelerate, then... Maybe like five

00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:33.200
years, five to ten years. That's quick. That's

00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:35.079
really quick. That's the best case scenario.

00:33:35.299 --> 00:33:37.799
No talking anymore in five years. Best case scenario.

00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:42.660
Ten years more like it. I've always speculated

00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:45.880
that aliens could potentially be us in the future.

00:33:46.299 --> 00:33:47.819
Because if you look at, like, the size of their

00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:49.960
heads and the fact that they have very little

00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.400
muscle and they don't use their mouth anymore.

00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.900
I mean, the archetypal alien that you see in,

00:33:55.900 --> 00:33:58.200
like, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, they're

00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.740
like, if you went from, like, Australopithecus

00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:06.220
or ancient hominid to us, what's the difference?

00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:10.019
Less hair, less muscle, bigger head. And then

00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:13.179
you just keep going. a million, whatever year,

00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:16.619
or five years, whatever happens when Neuralink

00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:21.880
goes on online, and then we slowly start to adapt

00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.980
to this new way of being where we don't use our

00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:28.639
muscles anymore. We have this gigantic head.

00:34:28.780 --> 00:34:34.000
We can talk without words. You could also save

00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:38.789
state. Save state? Save state, like save your

00:34:38.789 --> 00:34:41.250
brain state, like a saved game in a video game.

00:34:41.469 --> 00:34:45.829
Whoa. Like if you want to swap from Windows 95.

00:34:46.409 --> 00:34:50.150
Well, I play a little better than that, but yeah.

00:34:50.250 --> 00:34:54.070
I think we are Windows 95 right now. From a future

00:34:54.070 --> 00:34:57.590
perspective, probably. But yeah, I mean, you

00:34:57.590 --> 00:35:02.860
could save state. and restore that state into

00:35:02.860 --> 00:35:05.360
a biological being if you wanted to in the future.

00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:07.079
In principle, there's nothing from a physics

00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.219
standpoint that prevents this. You'd be a little

00:35:09.219 --> 00:35:10.659
different, but then you're also a little different

00:35:10.659 --> 00:35:12.320
when you wake up in the morning from yesterday,

00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:14.320
and you're a little different. In fact, if you

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.139
say you five years ago versus you today, it's

00:35:17.139 --> 00:35:21.039
quite a big difference. So you'd be substantially

00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:23.519
you. I mean, you'd certainly think you're you.

00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:27.960
But the idea of saving yourself and then transforming

00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:31.389
that into some sort of a biological state, Like

00:35:31.389 --> 00:35:35.489
you could hang out with 30 -year -old you? I

00:35:35.489 --> 00:35:39.809
mean the possibilities are endless. That's so

00:35:39.809 --> 00:35:42.489
weird. I mean just think like how your phone

00:35:42.489 --> 00:35:45.190
can – you can record videos on your phone. Like

00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:47.710
there's no way you could remember a video as

00:35:47.710 --> 00:35:51.489
accurately as your phone or a camera could. So

00:35:51.489 --> 00:35:58.110
if you've got like some version 10, Neuralink,

00:35:58.150 --> 00:36:02.449
whatever, far in the future. You could recall

00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:06.110
everything just like it's a movie. Clistically.

00:36:06.309 --> 00:36:09.730
Including the entire sensory experience. Emotions.

00:36:09.750 --> 00:36:14.530
Everything. Everything. And play it back. Do

00:36:14.530 --> 00:36:16.889
you think you'll be able to share? Edit it. Edit

00:36:16.889 --> 00:36:19.929
it. Yeah. So you can change your past? You could

00:36:19.929 --> 00:36:22.429
change what you think was your past, yeah. So

00:36:22.429 --> 00:36:23.489
if you had a traumatic experience? This whole

00:36:23.489 --> 00:36:27.849
thing right now could be a replayed memory. It

00:36:27.849 --> 00:36:31.260
could be. Yeah. It may be. What's the odds of

00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:33.659
this being a replayed memory? If you had to guess.

00:36:34.340 --> 00:36:38.480
It's more than 50%. There's no way to assign

00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:40.780
a probability with accuracy here. Right, but

00:36:40.780 --> 00:36:49.579
roughly. If you just had a gut instinct. Well,

00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:51.460
I don't have a neural link in my brain, so I'd

00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:56.619
say right now 0%. But at the point at which you

00:36:56.619 --> 00:36:59.380
do have a neural link, then it rises above 0%.

00:37:02.289 --> 00:37:05.409
The idea that we're experiencing some sort of

00:37:05.409 --> 00:37:10.090
a preserved memory is, even though it's still

00:37:10.090 --> 00:37:13.610
the same, it's not comforting. For some reason,

00:37:13.769 --> 00:37:17.269
when people talk about simulation theory, they

00:37:17.269 --> 00:37:19.389
talk about the potential for this currently being

00:37:19.389 --> 00:37:22.190
a simulation. Even though your life might be

00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:25.349
wonderful, you might be in love, you might love

00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:28.739
your career, you might have great friends. But

00:37:28.739 --> 00:37:31.519
it's not comforting to know that this experience

00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:33.380
somehow or another doesn't exist in a material

00:37:33.380 --> 00:37:36.960
form that you can knock on. Feels real, doesn't

00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:40.820
it? Feels real. But the idea that it's not is,

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.559
for some strange reason, disconcerting. Well,

00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:48.440
yeah, I'm sure it should be disconcerting. Because

00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:52.139
if this is not real, what is? Right. But, you

00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:56.079
know, there's that old sort of thought experiment

00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.340
of, like, How do you know you're not a brain

00:37:58.340 --> 00:38:02.639
in a vat? Now, here's the thing. You are a brain

00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:05.739
in a vat. Then that vat is your skull. Yes. And

00:38:05.739 --> 00:38:08.940
everything you see, feel, hear, everything, all

00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.719
your senses are electrical signals. Everything,

00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:18.420
everything is an electrical signal to a brain

00:38:18.420 --> 00:38:20.739
in a vat where the vat is your skull. And all

00:38:20.739 --> 00:38:23.500
your hormones, all your neurotransmitters, all

00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:26.360
these things are drugs. Adrenaline is a drug.

00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:30.380
Dopamine's a drug. You're a drug factory. You're

00:38:30.380 --> 00:38:32.500
constantly changing your state with love and

00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:36.760
oxytocin and beauty. Sure. Changes your state.

00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:41.639
Great music changes your state. Absolutely. And

00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.679
here's another sort of interesting idea, which

00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:48.420
is because you say, like, where did consciousness

00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:53.360
arise? Well, assuming you believe in physics,

00:38:53.500 --> 00:38:57.199
which appears to be true. Then, you know, the

00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.159
universe started off as basically quarks and

00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.239
leptons and it quickly became hydrogen and helium,

00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:06.599
lithium, like basically elements of the periodic

00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.500
table. But it was like mostly hydrogen basically.

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:16.960
And then over a long period of time, you know,

00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.519
13 .8 billion years later, that hydrogen became

00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:29.780
sentient. So where... Along the way, what's the

00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:32.039
line of consciousness and not consciousness between

00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.760
hydrogen and here? When do we call it? When do

00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.139
we call it consciousness? I was watching a video

00:39:38.139 --> 00:39:39.980
today that we played on a podcast earlier of

00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:42.539
a monkey riding a motorcycle down the street,

00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:44.820
jumps off the motorcycle and tries to steal a

00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:49.239
baby. Yeah, I saw that one. Is that monkey conscious?

00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:51.760
It seems like it is. It seems like it had a plan.

00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.239
It was riding a fucking motorcycle and then jumped

00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.619
off the motorcycle to try to steal a baby. Seems

00:39:57.619 --> 00:39:59.559
pretty. The one that just dragged the baby down

00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:02.179
the street pretty far. Yeah. Yeah. Seems pretty

00:40:02.179 --> 00:40:06.900
conscious. Right. There's definitely some degree

00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:10.199
of consciousness there. Yeah. It's not like it's

00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.360
not a worm. It seems to be on another level.

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.420
Yeah. And it's going to keep going. And that's

00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:21.059
the real concern. When people think about the

00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:24.119
potential future versions of human beings, especially

00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.940
when you consider a symbiotic relationship to

00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.079
artificial intelligence, it will be unrecognizable.

00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.320
That one day we'll be so far removed from what

00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.139
this is, we'll look back on this the way we look

00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:40.099
back now on simple organisms that we evolved

00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:43.380
from. And that it won't be that far in the future

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:47.969
that we do have this view back. Well, I hope

00:40:47.969 --> 00:40:49.630
consciousness propagates into the future and

00:40:49.630 --> 00:40:52.949
gets more sophisticated and complex and that

00:40:52.949 --> 00:40:56.610
it understands the questions to ask about the

00:40:56.610 --> 00:41:00.329
universe. Do you think that's the case? As a

00:41:00.329 --> 00:41:03.610
human being, as yourself, you're clearly trying

00:41:03.610 --> 00:41:06.690
to make conscious decisions to be a better version

00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:09.010
of you. This is the idea of getting rid of your

00:41:09.010 --> 00:41:11.269
possessions and realizing that you're trying

00:41:11.269 --> 00:41:14.329
to, like, I don't like this. I will try to improve

00:41:14.329 --> 00:41:17.309
this. I would try to do a better version of the

00:41:17.309 --> 00:41:20.389
way I interface with reality. That this is always

00:41:20.389 --> 00:41:24.769
the way things are. If you're moving in some

00:41:24.769 --> 00:41:26.610
sort of a direction where you're trying to improve

00:41:26.610 --> 00:41:29.610
things, you're always going to move into this

00:41:29.610 --> 00:41:31.690
new place where you look back in the old place

00:41:31.690 --> 00:41:35.349
and go, oh, I was doing it wrong back then. So

00:41:35.349 --> 00:41:37.949
this is an accelerated version of that, a super

00:41:37.949 --> 00:41:42.289
accelerated version of that. I mean, you don't

00:41:42.289 --> 00:41:44.070
always improve, but you can aspire to improve.

00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:48.739
You can aspire to be less wrong. Yeah. I think

00:41:48.739 --> 00:41:52.219
the tools of physics are very powerful. Just

00:41:52.219 --> 00:41:53.780
assume you're wrong and you're asked your goals

00:41:53.780 --> 00:41:56.360
to be less wrong. I don't think you're going

00:41:56.360 --> 00:41:58.860
to succeed every day in being less wrong, but

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.659
if you're going to succeed in being less wrong

00:42:01.659 --> 00:42:04.619
most of the time, you're doing great. That's

00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:06.480
a great way of putting it. Aspire to be less

00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:10.449
wrong. But then when people look back on nostalgia

00:42:10.449 --> 00:42:12.949
about simpler times, there's that too. It's very

00:42:12.949 --> 00:42:17.110
romantic and exciting to look back on campfires.

00:42:17.650 --> 00:42:20.550
But you can still have a campfire. Yes. But will

00:42:20.550 --> 00:42:22.389
you appreciate it when you're a super nerd, when

00:42:22.389 --> 00:42:24.349
you're connected to the grid and you have some

00:42:24.349 --> 00:42:28.170
skullcap in place of the top of your head and

00:42:28.170 --> 00:42:31.389
it's interfacing with the international language

00:42:31.389 --> 00:42:34.889
that the rest of the universe now enjoys communication

00:42:34.889 --> 00:42:40.559
with people? Yeah, sure, I think so. Yeah, I

00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.400
like your verse. I'm just worried. I mean, everyone's

00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.699
always scared of change, but I'm scared of this

00:42:47.699 --> 00:42:50.920
monumental change where we won't talk anymore.

00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.659
We'll communicate. Yes, but there's something

00:42:55.659 --> 00:43:00.159
about the beauty of the crudeness of language

00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:04.119
where when it's done eloquently. It's satisfying

00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.659
and it hits us in some sort of a visceral way.

00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:11.179
Like, ah, that person nailed it. I love that

00:43:11.179 --> 00:43:13.340
they nailed it. Like that it's so hard to capture

00:43:13.340 --> 00:43:17.539
a real thought and convey it in a way, in this

00:43:17.539 --> 00:43:19.780
articulate way that makes someone excited. Like

00:43:19.780 --> 00:43:22.300
you read a quote, a great quote by a wise person.

00:43:22.460 --> 00:43:25.480
It makes you excited that their mind figured

00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.559
something out, put the words together in a right

00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.099
way that makes your brain pop. Like, oh, yes.

00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:35.289
Yeah. Yes. Clever compression of a concept. Yeah.

00:43:35.530 --> 00:43:37.809
And a feeling. But the fact that a human did

00:43:37.809 --> 00:43:40.090
it, too. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Do you think

00:43:40.090 --> 00:43:42.130
that it'll be like electronic music? Like people

00:43:42.130 --> 00:43:43.889
won't appreciate it like they appreciate a slide

00:43:43.889 --> 00:43:49.150
guitar? I like electronic music. I do, too. Yeah.

00:43:49.250 --> 00:43:51.969
Well, you make it. I know you like it. Yeah.

00:43:52.949 --> 00:43:57.530
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hope the future is more

00:43:57.530 --> 00:43:59.730
fun and interesting, and we should try to make

00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:01.969
that way. I hope it's more fun and interesting,

00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:05.670
too. Yeah. I just hope we don't lose anything

00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:09.969
along the way. We might lose a little, but hopefully

00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:11.829
we gain more than we lose. Yeah, that's the thing,

00:44:11.829 --> 00:44:13.590
right? Gaining more than we lose. Something that

00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:15.789
makes us interesting is that we're so flawed.

00:44:16.010 --> 00:44:21.429
That's for sure. Right. I mean, you look at civilizations

00:44:21.429 --> 00:44:24.789
through the ages. Most of them, they rose and

00:44:24.789 --> 00:44:30.829
fell. Yeah. And I do think the... The globalization

00:44:30.829 --> 00:44:36.969
that we have at the sort of like the meme sphere

00:44:36.969 --> 00:44:42.510
is there's not enough isolation between countries

00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:47.230
or regions. It's like if you get a – if there's

00:44:47.230 --> 00:44:51.090
a mind virus, that mind virus can infect too

00:44:51.090 --> 00:44:54.050
much of the world. You know, like I actually

00:44:54.050 --> 00:44:57.530
– Sort of sympathize with the anti -globalization

00:44:57.530 --> 00:45:00.469
people because it's like, man, we don't ever

00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:02.909
want everywhere to be the same for sure. And

00:45:02.909 --> 00:45:06.070
then we need some kind of like mind viral immunity.

00:45:07.570 --> 00:45:12.530
So that's a bit concerning. Mind viral immunity,

00:45:12.710 --> 00:45:15.750
meaning that once something like Neuralink gets

00:45:15.750 --> 00:45:19.320
established, the real concern is something. I

00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:21.760
mean, you said it's Bluetooth, right? Or some

00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:24.659
future version of that. The idea is that something

00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:27.960
could possibly get into it and fuck it up. No,

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.179
I'm talking about like somebody, there's some

00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:39.559
concept that happens right now. Well, I know

00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.099
there's viruses in embedded chips, right? Like

00:45:42.099 --> 00:45:44.820
people have embedded chips and then acquired

00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:47.099
viruses. When I'm talking about a mind virus,

00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:50.119
I'm talking about like a virus. concept that

00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:56.000
affects people's minds oh okay okay like uh cult

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.420
thinking or yeah some sort of fundamentalism

00:45:58.420 --> 00:46:03.260
yeah just wrong -headed idea that yes goes viral

00:46:03.260 --> 00:46:08.940
in a in an idea sense well that is that that

00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:10.519
is a problem too right if someone can manipulate

00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:13.739
that technology to make something appear logical

00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:19.170
or rational yeah Would that be an issue too?

00:46:19.829 --> 00:46:23.550
This is a very have versus have not issue, right?

00:46:23.650 --> 00:46:27.630
If this really does, I mean, initially it's going

00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:31.690
to help people with injuries, but you said ultimately

00:46:31.690 --> 00:46:35.309
it could lead to this spectacular cognitive change.

00:46:35.550 --> 00:46:38.610
Yes. But the people that first get it should

00:46:38.610 --> 00:46:42.170
have a massive advantage over people that don't

00:46:42.170 --> 00:46:44.699
have it yet. Well, I mean, it's the kind of thing

00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:48.159
where your productivity would improve, I don't

00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.519
know, dramatically, maybe by a factor of 10 with

00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:55.000
it. So you could definitely just, you know, I

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:58.320
don't know, take out a loan and do it and earn

00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.440
the money back real fast. Yeah. Super smart.

00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:07.110
Well, in a capitalist society. It seems like

00:47:07.110 --> 00:47:09.130
you could really get so far ahead that before

00:47:09.130 --> 00:47:12.150
everybody else could afford this thing and link

00:47:12.150 --> 00:47:15.130
up and get connected as well, you'd be so far

00:47:15.130 --> 00:47:17.949
ahead they could never catch you. Is that a concern?

00:47:18.829 --> 00:47:24.630
Well, I think it's not a super huge concern.

00:47:24.809 --> 00:47:26.489
I mean there are huge differences in cognitive

00:47:26.489 --> 00:47:30.769
ability and resources already. You can think

00:47:30.769 --> 00:47:33.610
of a corporation as like a cybernetic collective.

00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:38.840
That's far smarter than an individual. I couldn't

00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.659
personally build a whole rocket and the engines

00:47:41.659 --> 00:47:43.179
and launch it and everything. That's impossible.

00:47:43.940 --> 00:47:52.380
But we have 8 ,000 people at SpaceX, and by piecing

00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:55.780
it out to different people and using computers

00:47:55.780 --> 00:48:01.019
and machines and stuff, we can make lots of rockets

00:48:01.019 --> 00:48:03.460
launch into orbit. stuck with the space station,

00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:07.719
that kind of thing, you know. So that already

00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:10.920
exists where there's, you know, where there's

00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.340
corporations are vastly more capable than an

00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:21.719
individual. But the, like, we should be, I think,

00:48:21.739 --> 00:48:25.420
less concerned about, like, relative capabilities

00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:32.800
between people and more, like, having ai be vastly

00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.559
you know beyond us and decoupled from human will

00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:41.460
decoupled from human so this is the if you can't

00:48:41.460 --> 00:48:45.059
beat them join them yeah i mean so you feel like

00:48:45.059 --> 00:48:48.760
it's inevitable like ai sentient ai is essentially

00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:52.820
inevitable super sentient ai yeah like beyond

00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:56.739
a level that's difficult to understand and impossible

00:48:56.739 --> 00:48:59.920
to understand probably and somehow or another

00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:06.840
So it's almost like it's a requirement for survival

00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:11.360
to achieve some sort of symbiotic existence with

00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:18.559
AI. It's not a requirement. It's just if you

00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:23.659
want to be along for the ride, then you need

00:49:23.659 --> 00:49:26.500
to do some kind of symbiosis. So the way your

00:49:26.500 --> 00:49:29.760
brain works right now, you've got... kind of

00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:35.159
like the animal brain, reptile brain, like the

00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.579
limbic system basically, and you've got the cortex.

00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.619
The brain purists will argue with this definition,

00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:44.719
but essentially you've got the primitive brain

00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:49.440
and you've got the sort of smart brain or the

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:51.460
brain that's capable of planning and understanding

00:49:51.460 --> 00:49:55.239
concepts and difficult things that a monkey can't

00:49:55.239 --> 00:50:01.079
understand. Your cortex is much, much smarter

00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:05.599
than your limbic system. Nonetheless, they work

00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.320
together well. So I haven't met anyone who wants

00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:10.099
to delete their limbic system or their cortex.

00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:15.239
People are quite happy having both. So you can

00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.780
think of this as being like the computer, the

00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:23.480
AI is like a third layer, a tertiary layer. So

00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.119
that could be symbiotic with the cortex. It would

00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.599
be much smarter than the cortex. but you essentially

00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:31.820
have three layers. And you actually have that

00:50:31.820 --> 00:50:34.699
right now. Your phone is capable of things, and

00:50:34.699 --> 00:50:36.420
your computer is capable of things that your

00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:41.059
brain is definitely not. You know, storing terabytes

00:50:41.059 --> 00:50:47.219
of information perfectly, doing incredible calculations

00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:50.800
that we couldn't even come close to doing. You

00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.579
have that with your computer. It's just, like

00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:55.480
I said, the data rate is slow. The connection

00:50:55.480 --> 00:51:01.280
is weak. Why is it so disconcerting or why does

00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:05.280
it not give me comfort to think about – like

00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.599
when I think about a symbiotic connection to

00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:11.699
AI, I always think of this cold, emotionless

00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:16.960
sort of thing that we will become. Is that a

00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:18.940
bad way to look at it? I don't think that's not

00:51:18.940 --> 00:51:21.559
quite – that's not how it would be. Like I said,

00:51:21.579 --> 00:51:26.269
you already are symbiotic with AI or – Computers.

00:51:26.269 --> 00:51:28.730
Phones, computers, laptops. Yeah, and there's

00:51:28.730 --> 00:51:32.710
quite a bit of AI going on, so artificial neural

00:51:32.710 --> 00:51:38.530
nets. Increasingly, neural nets are sort of taking

00:51:38.530 --> 00:51:40.849
over from regular programming more and more.

00:51:42.309 --> 00:51:50.159
So you are connected. If you use... Google Voice

00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:51.960
or Alexa or one of those things, it's using a

00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.460
neural net to decode your speech and try to understand

00:51:54.460 --> 00:51:58.639
what you're saying. If you're trying to do image

00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.320
recognition or improve the quality of your photograph,

00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:04.519
it's using the neural nets, the best way to do

00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:13.019
that. So you are already sort of a cybernetic

00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:19.210
symbiote. It's just a question of your data rate.

00:52:19.670 --> 00:52:23.489
The communication speed between your phone and

00:52:23.489 --> 00:52:27.730
your brain is slow. When do you think you're

00:52:27.730 --> 00:52:33.570
going to do it? How long will you wait? Like

00:52:33.570 --> 00:52:35.489
once it starts becoming available. Yeah, if it

00:52:35.489 --> 00:52:39.449
works, I'll do it, sure. Right away. I mean,

00:52:39.469 --> 00:52:42.530
let's make sure it works. How do we make sure

00:52:42.530 --> 00:52:44.489
it works? We try it on prisoners? Like, what

00:52:44.489 --> 00:52:47.849
do you do? No, no. Take rapists? No. Cut holes

00:52:47.849 --> 00:52:49.929
in their head? No, like I said, if somebody's

00:52:49.929 --> 00:52:53.130
got a serious brain injury. Right. And, you know,

00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:55.170
people have, like, very severe brain injuries.

00:52:56.070 --> 00:53:00.769
And then you can fix those brain injuries. And,

00:53:01.030 --> 00:53:04.230
you know, then you prove out that it works and

00:53:04.230 --> 00:53:08.489
you envelope expand. make more and more brain

00:53:08.489 --> 00:53:12.570
injuries, solve more and more. And then at a

00:53:12.570 --> 00:53:15.230
certain age, we all are going to get Alzheimer's.

00:53:15.230 --> 00:53:18.309
We're all going to get senile. And then moms

00:53:18.309 --> 00:53:20.230
forget the names of their kids and that kind

00:53:20.230 --> 00:53:23.789
of thing. And so it's like you said, okay, well,

00:53:23.889 --> 00:53:27.650
this would allow you to remember the names of

00:53:27.650 --> 00:53:32.349
your kids and have a much more normal life where

00:53:32.349 --> 00:53:36.559
you're able to function much later in life. So

00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:40.960
essentially, almost everyone would find a need

00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:44.460
at some point, if you get old enough, to use

00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:50.019
Neuralink. And then it's like, okay, so we can

00:53:50.019 --> 00:53:53.219
improve the functionality and improve the communication

00:53:53.219 --> 00:53:58.260
speed, so then you will not have to use your

00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:02.440
thumbs to communicate with the computer. Do you

00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:04.400
ever sit down and extrapolate? Do you ever, like,

00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:08.400
sit down and think about all the different iterations

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:14.300
of this and what this eventually leads to? Yeah,

00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:15.940
I mean, I think, sure, I think about it a lot.

00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:20.960
There's, like I said, there's not something that's

00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:22.599
going to sneak up on you. You know, there's,

00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:24.340
like, getting FDA approval for this stuff is

00:54:24.340 --> 00:54:30.780
not, like, overnight, you know. And there's...

00:54:31.179 --> 00:54:33.500
I mean, we probably have to be on like version

00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:40.500
10 or something before, you know, it would realistically

00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:47.619
be, you know, a human AI symbiote situation.

00:54:50.920 --> 00:54:54.219
So you'll see it coming, you know. You see it

00:54:54.219 --> 00:54:55.559
coming, but what do you think it's going to be?

00:54:56.339 --> 00:54:58.239
Like when you sit, when you're alone, if you

00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:59.460
have free time, I don't know if you have free

00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:02.300
time, but if you just sit down and think about

00:55:02.300 --> 00:55:06.480
this iteration, the next, onward, keep going,

00:55:06.619 --> 00:55:10.000
and you drag it out with improvements along the

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:13.260
way and leaps and bounds and technological innovations,

00:55:13.579 --> 00:55:19.579
where do you see it? What are we going to be?

00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:22.260
Like when? 25 years from now. What are we going

00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:32.360
to be? Well, assuming civilization is still around.

00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:38.900
It's looking fragile right now. I think we could

00:55:38.900 --> 00:55:44.739
have a... In 25 years, probably something...

00:55:44.739 --> 00:55:47.179
I think there could be a whole brain interface.

00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:52.280
A whole brain interface? Something pretty close

00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.400
to that, yeah. How do you define... What do you

00:55:54.400 --> 00:56:00.730
mean by whole brain interface? Like almost all

00:56:00.730 --> 00:56:11.210
the neurons are connected to the sort of AI extension

00:56:11.210 --> 00:56:18.070
of yourself. If you want. AI extension of yourself?

00:56:18.409 --> 00:56:21.250
Yeah. What does that mean to you? Like when you

00:56:21.250 --> 00:56:26.550
say AI extension of yourself? Well, like I said,

00:56:26.570 --> 00:56:29.590
you already have. A computer extension of yourself

00:56:29.590 --> 00:56:33.809
and your phone and computers and stuff. And now

00:56:33.809 --> 00:56:35.650
online, it's like somebody dies. There's like

00:56:35.650 --> 00:56:40.030
an online ghost. Their online stuff is still

00:56:40.030 --> 00:56:43.070
alive. That's a good way to put it. It is weird

00:56:43.070 --> 00:56:44.510
when you read someone's tweets after they're

00:56:44.510 --> 00:56:48.309
dead. Yeah. Yeah. Instagram and their stories

00:56:48.309 --> 00:56:50.670
and stuff. Yeah. Whatever, Facebook and stuff.

00:56:50.869 --> 00:56:53.110
That's a great way to put it. It's like an online

00:56:53.110 --> 00:57:01.010
ghost. That's very accurate. Yeah. So, yeah,

00:57:01.090 --> 00:57:06.050
so it would just be that more of you would be

00:57:06.050 --> 00:57:10.369
in the cloud, I guess, than in your body. More

00:57:10.369 --> 00:57:17.010
of you. Whoa. Now, when you say civilization

00:57:17.010 --> 00:57:19.070
is fragile, do you mean because of this COVID

00:57:19.070 --> 00:57:21.670
-19 shit that's going on right now? What's that?

00:57:21.730 --> 00:57:23.510
I've never heard of it. It's this thing. It's

00:57:23.510 --> 00:57:25.489
like some people just get a cough. I have no

00:57:25.489 --> 00:57:26.670
idea what you're talking about. Other people.

00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:39.280
It gets much worse? Sure. Yeah. Well, yeah. I

00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:41.980
mean, this certainly has taken over the mind

00:57:41.980 --> 00:57:44.739
space of the world to a degree that is quite

00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:48.179
shocking. Yeah. Well, out of nowhere. That's

00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:50.639
what's crazy. It's like you go back to November,

00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:53.519
nothing. Now here we are, December, January,

00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:57.309
February, March, April, May, six months. Totally

00:57:57.309 --> 00:58:00.309
different world. So from nothing to everything's

00:58:00.309 --> 00:58:04.309
locked down, there's so much conflicting information

00:58:04.309 --> 00:58:06.570
and conflicting opinions about how to proceed,

00:58:06.889 --> 00:58:11.889
what has happened. You find things where there

00:58:11.889 --> 00:58:14.389
was a meatpacking plant, I believe, in Missouri

00:58:14.389 --> 00:58:20.170
where 300 -plus people were asymptomatic, tested

00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:23.119
positive or asymptomatic. And then in other places,

00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:25.440
it just ravages entire communities and kills

00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:29.239
people. And it's so weird. It almost appears,

00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.559
like if you didn't know anybody, you'd be like,

00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:33.639
it seems like there's a bunch of different viruses.

00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:36.079
It doesn't seem like it's the same thing. Or

00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:40.199
has a bunch of different reactions to the biological

00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:49.000
variety of people. Yeah. I mean, I kind of saw

00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:52.300
this whole thing play out in China. before it

00:58:52.300 --> 00:58:56.320
played out in the U .S. So it's kind of like

00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.840
watching the same movie again, but in English.

00:59:03.019 --> 00:59:15.219
So, yeah. I think the mortality rate is much

00:59:15.219 --> 00:59:19.760
less than what, say, the World Health Organization

00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:22.539
said it was. Much, much less. It's like probably

00:59:22.539 --> 00:59:24.639
at least an order of magnitude less. Well, it

00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:27.920
seems to be very deadly to very specific kinds

00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.219
of people and people with specific problems.

00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.159
Yeah. I mean if you're – you can look at the

00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:39.659
mortality statistics by age and whether they

00:59:39.659 --> 00:59:42.260
have comorbidities. Like do they have – like

00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:52.260
basically existing conditions by age. below 60

00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:55.840
and have no serious health issues, the probability

00:59:55.840 --> 00:59:58.659
of death is extremely low. It's not zero, but

00:59:58.659 --> 01:00:02.820
it's extremely low. They didn't think that this

01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:04.960
was the case, though, when they first started

01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.300
to lock down the country. Do you think that it's

01:00:07.300 --> 01:00:10.199
a situation where once they've proceeded in a

01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:12.539
certain way, it's very difficult to correct course?

01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:21.219
It's almost like people really wanted... A panic.

01:00:21.739 --> 01:00:26.340
You know, it's quite crazy. But in some places

01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:28.619
a panic is deserved, right? Like if you're in

01:00:28.619 --> 01:00:30.820
the ICU in Manhattan and people are dying left

01:00:30.820 --> 01:00:33.280
and right and everyone's on intubators and it

01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:38.719
seems like when you see all these people on ventilators

01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.059
and so many of them are dying and you see these

01:00:41.059 --> 01:00:43.260
nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick,

01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:48.500
in some places that fear is justified. But then

01:00:48.500 --> 01:00:51.420
in other places... You're reading these stories

01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:54.579
about hospitals that are essentially half empty.

01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:57.539
They're having to furlough doctors and nurses

01:00:57.539 --> 01:01:01.440
because there's no work for them. Most of the

01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:02.719
hospitals in the United States right now are

01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:06.099
half empty. In some cases, they're at 30 % capacity.

01:01:06.579 --> 01:01:09.760
And is this because they've decided to forego

01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:13.679
elective procedures and normal things that people

01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:17.280
would have to go to the hospital for? Yes. I

01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:20.630
mean, we're not talking about just... Some of

01:01:20.630 --> 01:01:22.369
these elective procedures are quite important.

01:01:22.469 --> 01:01:24.349
Yes. It's like you have a bad heart. Fall bladder

01:01:24.349 --> 01:01:27.809
disease. Yeah, sure. And you need a triple bypass.

01:01:28.030 --> 01:01:31.110
It's like sort of elective, but if you don't

01:01:31.110 --> 01:01:33.269
get it done in time, you're going to die. Yeah.

01:01:34.170 --> 01:01:36.110
Elective is a weird word. Yeah, elective. It's

01:01:36.110 --> 01:01:39.650
not like, hey, I want to – it's not like plastic

01:01:39.650 --> 01:01:43.289
surgery. Right, right, right. It's more like

01:01:43.289 --> 01:01:46.690
my hip is – I'm in extreme pain because my hip

01:01:46.690 --> 01:01:49.409
is blown out or my knee. I don't want to go to

01:01:49.409 --> 01:01:51.650
the hospital. I can't go to the hospital to people

01:01:51.650 --> 01:01:55.150
in extreme pain, people that need a kidney. People

01:01:55.150 --> 01:01:58.210
that have quite serious issues that are choosing

01:01:58.210 --> 01:02:02.309
not to go out of fear. So I think it's a problem.

01:02:02.449 --> 01:02:04.969
It's not good. It seems like the state of public

01:02:04.969 --> 01:02:07.590
perception is shifting. It is. Like people are

01:02:07.590 --> 01:02:10.510
taking some deep breaths and relaxing. And because

01:02:10.510 --> 01:02:14.090
of the statistics of, I mean, and essentially

01:02:14.090 --> 01:02:16.489
across the board, it's being recognized that

01:02:16.489 --> 01:02:20.719
it's not. as fatal as we thought it was still

01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:23.340
dangerous still worse than the flu but not as

01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:28.340
bad as we thought or we feared it could be i

01:02:28.340 --> 01:02:31.739
mean objectively the mortality is is much lower

01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:37.760
like at least a factor of 10 maybe a factor of

01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:42.039
50 lower than initially thought do you think

01:02:42.039 --> 01:02:45.750
that the current way we're handling this The

01:02:45.750 --> 01:02:48.489
social distancing, the masks, the locking down,

01:02:48.769 --> 01:02:52.550
does this make sense? Is it adequate or do you

01:02:52.550 --> 01:02:57.190
think that we should move back to at least closer

01:02:57.190 --> 01:03:01.070
to where we used to be? Well, I think proper

01:03:01.070 --> 01:03:03.590
hygiene is a good thing no matter what. Wash

01:03:03.590 --> 01:03:08.469
your hands and if you're coughing, stay home

01:03:08.469 --> 01:03:12.190
or wear a mask. This is not good. In fact, they

01:03:12.190 --> 01:03:14.420
do that in Japan. That's like normal. If you're

01:03:14.420 --> 01:03:17.460
ill, you wear a face mask and you don't cough

01:03:17.460 --> 01:03:20.800
on people. I think that would be a great thing

01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:25.619
to adopt in general throughout the world. Washing

01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:28.579
your hands is also good. Well, that's the speculation

01:03:28.579 --> 01:03:30.880
why men get it more than women because men are

01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:32.679
disgusting. We don't wash our hands as much.

01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:35.639
It's true. It's true. I admit it. All men in

01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:37.019
this room, we're all gross. Yeah, let's go to

01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:38.880
the restroom. You can see us. Yes, we're gross.

01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:40.719
My daughter, my nine -year -old daughter yells

01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:43.389
at me. She goes, did you wash your hands? She

01:03:43.389 --> 01:03:45.889
makes me go back and wash my hands. She's right.

01:03:46.630 --> 01:03:48.230
Nine years old. If I had a nine -year -old boy,

01:03:48.329 --> 01:03:49.730
do you think he would care? No. You wouldn't

01:03:49.730 --> 01:03:55.130
give a fuck if I washed my hands. True. So I

01:03:55.130 --> 01:03:57.269
think there's definitely some silver linings

01:03:57.269 --> 01:04:02.239
here and improved. you know, hygiene. Yes. And

01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:04.719
awareness of potential. Yes. And I think this

01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:08.079
has shaken up the system. The system is like

01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:11.260
somewhat moribund with a lot of layers of bureaucracy.

01:04:11.460 --> 01:04:13.599
And I think that we've cut through some of that

01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:17.780
bureaucracy. And if we, you know, at some point

01:04:17.780 --> 01:04:23.019
there probably will be a pandemic with a high

01:04:23.019 --> 01:04:27.619
mortality rate. debate about, like, what's high,

01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:29.199
but I mean, like, something that's killing a

01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:32.059
lot of 20 -year -olds, let's say. Like, it's...

01:04:32.059 --> 01:04:35.460
If you had, like, Ebola -type mortality... Spanish

01:04:35.460 --> 01:04:37.880
flu, something that attacks immune systems of

01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:42.780
healthy people. Yeah, yeah. It's, uh... Yeah,

01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.880
like, killing large numbers of young, healthy

01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.960
people, that's, you know, define that as, like,

01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:54.920
high mortality, then this is at least practice

01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:57.840
for something like that. And I think there's

01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:01.480
– given it's just a matter of time that there

01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:05.480
will be eventually some such pandemic. Do you

01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:08.539
think that in a sense the one good thing that

01:05:08.539 --> 01:05:10.460
we might get out of this is the realization that

01:05:10.460 --> 01:05:13.579
this is a potential reality, that we got lucky

01:05:13.579 --> 01:05:16.260
in the sense – I mean people that didn't get

01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:18.599
lucky and died, of course I'm not disrespecting

01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.900
their death and their loss. But I'm saying overall

01:05:20.900 --> 01:05:24.139
as a culture, as a human race, as a community.

01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:26.800
This is not as bad as it could have been. This

01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.739
is a good dry run for us to appreciate that we

01:05:30.739 --> 01:05:35.500
need far more resources dedicated towards understanding

01:05:35.500 --> 01:05:39.900
these diseases, what to do in the case of pandemic,

01:05:40.039 --> 01:05:44.440
and much more money that goes to funding treatments

01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:49.239
and some preventative measures. Yeah, absolutely.

01:05:50.019 --> 01:05:54.000
And I think there's a... Good chance. It's highly

01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.539
likely, I think, coming out of this, that we

01:05:56.539 --> 01:06:00.260
will develop vaccines that we didn't have before

01:06:00.260 --> 01:06:07.159
for coronaviruses and other viruses and possibly

01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:12.659
cures for these. And our understanding of viruses

01:06:12.659 --> 01:06:14.619
of this nature has improved dramatically because

01:06:14.619 --> 01:06:19.079
of the attention that it's received. So there's

01:06:19.079 --> 01:06:24.320
definitely a lot of silver linings here. Potentially,

01:06:24.460 --> 01:06:29.860
if we act correctly. Yeah, yeah. I think there

01:06:29.860 --> 01:06:31.460
will be some amount of silver lining here no

01:06:31.460 --> 01:06:34.719
matter what. Hopefully more silver lining than

01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:42.340
less. So, yeah, this is kind of like a practice

01:06:42.340 --> 01:06:46.920
run for something that might in the future have

01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.760
a serious, like a really high mortality rate.

01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:54.380
And we kind of got to go through this without

01:06:54.380 --> 01:06:57.739
it being something that kills vast numbers of

01:06:57.739 --> 01:07:02.239
young, healthy people. Yeah. When you made a

01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:05.539
series of tweets recently, I don't remember the

01:07:05.539 --> 01:07:07.039
exact wording, but essentially you were saying

01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:09.639
free America now. That is the exact wording.

01:07:09.860 --> 01:07:15.940
That is it? Thank you. How much do you pay attention

01:07:15.940 --> 01:07:18.239
to the response to that stuff and what was the

01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:21.039
response? Did anybody go, hey, Elon, what the

01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:22.619
fuck are you doing? Did anybody pull you aside?

01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:28.519
Who does that? Who gets to do that to you? Well,

01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:31.139
I mean, I certainly get that. There's no shortage

01:07:31.139 --> 01:07:34.190
of negative feedback. Twitter. Oh, yeah, Twitter.

01:07:34.929 --> 01:07:37.329
Yeah. But I don't read that. Do you read it?

01:07:37.449 --> 01:07:39.550
Warzone. You do sometimes, though, right? You

01:07:39.550 --> 01:07:42.230
do read it. Yeah, I mean, I scroll through the

01:07:42.230 --> 01:07:44.289
comments. Like I said, that's a meme, Warzone.

01:07:45.130 --> 01:07:47.530
Yeah. I mean, people knife you good on Twitter.

01:07:48.750 --> 01:07:53.769
It's something I enjoy about just the – there's

01:07:53.769 --> 01:07:59.659
something about the – The freedom of expression

01:07:59.659 --> 01:08:02.619
that comes from all these people that do attack

01:08:02.619 --> 01:08:05.780
you, it's like, well, if there was no vulnerability

01:08:05.780 --> 01:08:09.139
whatsoever, they wouldn't attack you. And it's

01:08:09.139 --> 01:08:13.280
like there's something about these millions and

01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:18.380
millions of perspectives that you have to appreciate.

01:08:19.229 --> 01:08:21.989
Even if it comes your way, even if the shit storm

01:08:21.989 --> 01:08:24.310
hits you in the face, you've got to appreciate,

01:08:24.470 --> 01:08:26.829
wow, how amazing is it that all these people

01:08:26.829 --> 01:08:29.529
do have the ability to express themselves? You

01:08:29.529 --> 01:08:31.750
don't necessarily want to be there when the shit

01:08:31.750 --> 01:08:34.229
hits you. You might want to get out of the way

01:08:34.229 --> 01:08:36.229
in anticipation of the shit storm, but the fact

01:08:36.229 --> 01:08:38.850
that so many people have the ability to reach

01:08:38.850 --> 01:08:41.390
out, and I think it's, in a lot of ways, it's,

01:08:41.390 --> 01:08:45.170
I don't want to say a misused resource, but it's

01:08:45.170 --> 01:08:49.579
like giving monkeys guns. They just start gunning

01:08:49.579 --> 01:08:51.460
down things that are in front of them without

01:08:51.460 --> 01:08:54.399
any realization of what they're doing. They have

01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:56.659
a rock. They see a window. They throw it. Woo!

01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:00.039
Look at that. I got Elon mad. Look at that. This

01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:03.159
guy got mad at me. I fucking took this person

01:09:03.159 --> 01:09:06.760
down on Twitter. I got this lady fired. Oh, the

01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:08.739
fucking business is going under because of Twitter

01:09:08.739 --> 01:09:12.039
wars. It seems like there's something about it

01:09:12.039 --> 01:09:17.550
that's this newfound thing. I don't want to say

01:09:17.550 --> 01:09:20.729
abuse, but I want to say that it's almost like

01:09:20.729 --> 01:09:23.109
you hit the button and things blow up. You're

01:09:23.109 --> 01:09:31.750
like, wow. What else can we blow up? Sure. I

01:09:31.750 --> 01:09:33.210
mean, I've been in the Twitter war zone for a

01:09:33.210 --> 01:09:37.289
while here. The Twitter war zone? It takes a

01:09:37.289 --> 01:09:40.090
lot to phase me at this point. Yeah. That's good

01:09:40.090 --> 01:09:44.539
too, right? You develop a thick skin. Yeah, you

01:09:44.539 --> 01:09:46.020
can't take it personally. A lot of these people

01:09:46.020 --> 01:09:51.500
don't actually know you. It's just like if you're

01:09:51.500 --> 01:09:55.479
fighting a war and there's some opposing soldier

01:09:55.479 --> 01:09:58.960
that shoots at you, it's not like they hate you.

01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:02.760
They don't even know you. Right. Yeah. So just

01:10:02.760 --> 01:10:04.380
think of it like that. They have firing bullets

01:10:04.380 --> 01:10:07.439
or whatever, but they don't know you, so don't

01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:09.090
take it personally. There's something interesting

01:10:09.090 --> 01:10:12.090
about it, too. It's like when you write something

01:10:12.090 --> 01:10:15.609
in 280 characters and they write something in

01:10:15.609 --> 01:10:18.789
280, it's such a crude way. It's like someone

01:10:18.789 --> 01:10:22.069
sending opposing smoke signals that refute your

01:10:22.069 --> 01:10:27.170
smoke signals. It's so crude, especially when

01:10:27.170 --> 01:10:28.729
you're talking about something like Neuralink.

01:10:28.850 --> 01:10:31.489
You're talking about some future potential where

01:10:31.489 --> 01:10:34.189
you're going to be able to express. Pure thoughts

01:10:34.189 --> 01:10:37.590
that get conveyed through some sort of a universal

01:10:37.590 --> 01:10:41.789
language with no ambiguity whatsoever versus,

01:10:41.909 --> 01:10:46.010
you know, tweets. Well, there will always be

01:10:46.010 --> 01:10:50.329
some ambiguity. Yeah. But tweets are – it's hard.

01:10:51.250 --> 01:10:53.810
Maybe there should be like a sarcasm flag or

01:10:53.810 --> 01:10:56.750
something. Right, right. Or I'm not – you know,

01:10:56.810 --> 01:10:59.789
just kidding or whatever. It seems like it would

01:10:59.789 --> 01:11:02.020
– Take away some of the fun from people that

01:11:02.020 --> 01:11:04.760
know it's sarcasm. Like if everybody knew that

01:11:04.760 --> 01:11:07.199
The Onion wasn't real, if you sent people articles,

01:11:07.460 --> 01:11:10.899
it's something about someone getting angry at

01:11:10.899 --> 01:11:13.359
an Onion article. Wow, that's amazing. You know

01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:14.939
what I mean, where they don't realize what it

01:11:14.939 --> 01:11:16.960
is? There's something fun about that for everybody

01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:21.979
else. Yeah, Onion's pretty great. Might be the

01:11:21.979 --> 01:11:24.939
best news source. Do you know who Titania McGrath

01:11:24.939 --> 01:11:30.390
is? Hilarious. It's Andrew Boyle. He's a British

01:11:30.390 --> 01:11:33.069
fellow, a brilliant guy who's been on the podcast

01:11:33.069 --> 01:11:35.430
before, and he has this fictional character,

01:11:35.729 --> 01:11:39.069
this pseudonym, Titania McGrath, who's like the

01:11:39.069 --> 01:11:43.270
ultimate social justice warrior. Is this like

01:11:43.270 --> 01:11:46.409
a female avatar? Yes, yes, yes. A female avatar

01:11:46.409 --> 01:11:48.930
that's actually a computer conglomeration of

01:11:48.930 --> 01:11:51.250
a bunch of faces. It's not really one person,

01:11:51.289 --> 01:11:53.550
so one person can't be a victim and be angry.

01:11:53.789 --> 01:11:56.210
He sort of combined these faces to make this

01:11:56.210 --> 01:12:00.170
one perfect social justice warrior. But I recognized

01:12:00.170 --> 01:12:04.130
it early on before I met him that this was parody.

01:12:04.310 --> 01:12:09.350
This was just fun. And then I love reading the

01:12:09.350 --> 01:12:12.079
people that don't recognize that. They get angry.

01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:16.039
Sure. And there's a lot of people that just get

01:12:16.039 --> 01:12:20.020
really furious. Sure. There's some fun to that.

01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:24.920
There's some fun to the not picking up on the

01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:29.659
true nature of the signal. I find Twitter quite

01:12:29.659 --> 01:12:37.409
engaging. How do you have the time? five minutes

01:12:37.409 --> 01:12:39.090
every couple hours type thing. It's not like

01:12:39.090 --> 01:12:41.649
I'm sitting on an all day. But even five minutes

01:12:41.649 --> 01:12:44.229
every couple hours, if those are bad five minutes,

01:12:44.270 --> 01:12:45.970
they might be bouncing around in your head for

01:12:45.970 --> 01:12:51.529
the next 30. Yeah, you have to, like I said,

01:12:51.529 --> 01:12:54.430
take a certain amount of distance from, you read

01:12:54.430 --> 01:12:56.350
this and you're like, okay, it's bullets being

01:12:56.350 --> 01:13:01.310
fired by an opposing army. It's not like they

01:13:01.310 --> 01:13:06.060
know you. Don't take it personally. Did you feel

01:13:06.060 --> 01:13:09.500
the same way when CNN had that stupid shit about

01:13:09.500 --> 01:13:13.399
ventilators with you? I found that both confusing

01:13:13.399 --> 01:13:17.279
and— Yeah, that was annoying. It was annoying.

01:13:17.500 --> 01:13:19.840
It was wrong. But it was also annoying as a person

01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:23.760
who reads CNN and wants to think of them as a

01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:26.779
responsible conveyor of the facts. I would like

01:13:26.779 --> 01:13:31.300
to think that. Yeah. I don't think CNN is that.

01:13:31.539 --> 01:13:35.329
I think it used to be. It used to be, yeah. What

01:13:35.329 --> 01:13:37.430
do you think is the best source of just like

01:13:37.430 --> 01:13:39.609
information out there? That's a good question.

01:13:40.449 --> 01:13:43.369
Let's say you're just like average citizen trying

01:13:43.369 --> 01:13:45.890
to just get the facts, figure out what's going

01:13:45.890 --> 01:13:50.710
on, like how to live your life and just looking

01:13:50.710 --> 01:13:54.329
for what's going on in the world. It's hard to

01:13:54.329 --> 01:14:01.369
find something that isn't – that's good. Yeah.

01:14:03.460 --> 01:14:06.520
Not trying to push some partisan angle, not trying

01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:09.880
to – not sort of doing sloppy reporting and just

01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:12.300
aiming for the most number of clicks and trying

01:14:12.300 --> 01:14:14.180
to maximize ad dollars and that kind of thing.

01:14:14.380 --> 01:14:16.359
Yeah. You're just trying to figure out what's

01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:20.100
going on. It's like I'm hard -pressed to – where

01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:22.560
do you go? I don't know. I don't think there's

01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:27.340
any pure form. My favorite places are the New

01:14:27.340 --> 01:14:30.079
York Times and the LA Times, and I don't trust

01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:34.460
them 100%. Because also there's individuals that

01:14:34.460 --> 01:14:36.579
are writing these stories. Yeah, exactly. And

01:14:36.579 --> 01:14:38.699
that seems to be the problem is these individual

01:14:38.699 --> 01:14:42.899
biases and these individual – there's purposely

01:14:42.899 --> 01:14:45.939
distorted perceptions and then there's ignorantly

01:14:45.939 --> 01:14:49.800
reported facts. And there's so many variables

01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:51.420
and you've got to put everything through this

01:14:51.420 --> 01:14:53.720
filter. of where is this person coming from?

01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:56.520
Do they have political biases? Do they have social

01:14:56.520 --> 01:15:01.359
biases? Are they upset because of their own shortcomings?

01:15:01.460 --> 01:15:04.720
Are they projecting this into the story? It's

01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:07.640
so hard. Yeah, I think maybe just trying to find

01:15:07.640 --> 01:15:09.779
individual reporters that you think are good

01:15:09.779 --> 01:15:12.159
and kind of following them as opposed to the

01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:14.779
publication. I go with whatever Matt Taibbi says.

01:15:15.380 --> 01:15:17.359
Okay. I trust him more than anybody. All right.

01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:22.000
Matt Taibbi's on to something. As far as investigative

01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:24.539
reporters in particular, the way he reported

01:15:24.539 --> 01:15:27.000
the savings and loan crisis, the way he reports

01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.539
everything, I just listen to him above most.

01:15:31.579 --> 01:15:33.640
He's my go -to guy. All right, I'll check it

01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:36.579
out. His Rolling Stones articles, his stuff on

01:15:36.579 --> 01:15:38.119
the savings and loan crisis, you're just like,

01:15:38.220 --> 01:15:42.119
what in the fuck? And he's not an economist by

01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:43.680
any stretch of the imagination, so he had to

01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:46.619
really sort of deeply embed himself in that world

01:15:46.619 --> 01:15:49.079
to try to understand it and to be able to report

01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:52.739
on it. And also with a humorous flair. Yeah,

01:15:52.779 --> 01:15:58.680
that's nice. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not that many

01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:02.939
of them. It's hard. And not a location where,

01:16:03.020 --> 01:16:05.979
like, we are no bullshit. Sure. You know, wearenobullshit

01:16:05.979 --> 01:16:08.640
.com. Like, the one place where you can say,

01:16:08.739 --> 01:16:11.239
this is what we know, this is what we don't know,

01:16:11.300 --> 01:16:14.319
this is what we think. Not... This person's wrong,

01:16:14.420 --> 01:16:17.800
and here's why. Like, oh, God damn it. You know,

01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:20.659
I can't. You don't know. There's a lot of stuff

01:16:20.659 --> 01:16:24.680
that is open to interpretation. This particular

01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:27.239
coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right

01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:31.880
now seems to be a great illuminator of that very

01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:35.979
fact, is that there's so much data. And there's

01:16:35.979 --> 01:16:38.560
so much that's open to interpretation. There's

01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:40.460
so many things, because it's all happening in

01:16:40.460 --> 01:16:43.020
real time, right? And particularly right now

01:16:43.020 --> 01:16:46.020
in California, we're in stage two tomorrow or

01:16:46.020 --> 01:16:48.600
Friday, two days from now. Stage two, retail

01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:51.840
stores opening up. Things are changing. No one

01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:55.500
knows the correct process that needs to take

01:16:55.500 --> 01:16:58.020
place to save the most amount of lives, but yet

01:16:58.020 --> 01:17:03.680
ensure that our culture and that our economy

01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:07.130
survives. It's a lot of speculation and guessing.

01:17:07.210 --> 01:17:09.550
But if you go to certain places, they'll tell

01:17:09.550 --> 01:17:12.590
you we know why and we know this and we know

01:17:12.590 --> 01:17:19.810
– it's hard. Yeah. I mean in general I think

01:17:19.810 --> 01:17:23.170
that's like we should be concerned about anything

01:17:23.170 --> 01:17:25.750
that's a massive infringement on our civil liberties.

01:17:26.109 --> 01:17:29.449
Yes. So it's like you got to put a lot of weight

01:17:29.449 --> 01:17:34.149
on that. A lot of people died to – you know,

01:17:34.149 --> 01:17:36.750
win independence for the country and fight for

01:17:36.750 --> 01:17:41.010
the democracy that we have. And, you know, we

01:17:41.010 --> 01:17:43.750
should treasure that and not give up our liberties

01:17:43.750 --> 01:17:47.409
too easily. I think we probably did that, actually.

01:17:47.930 --> 01:17:50.609
Well, I like what you said when you said that

01:17:50.609 --> 01:17:55.600
it should be a choice and that To require people

01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:59.380
to stay home, require people to not go to work,

01:17:59.420 --> 01:18:03.319
and to arrest people for trying to make a living,

01:18:03.420 --> 01:18:06.199
this all seems wrong. And I think it's the wrong

01:18:06.199 --> 01:18:12.000
approach. It's an infantilization of the society.

01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:15.460
That dad is going to tell you what to do. Fundamentally,

01:18:15.460 --> 01:18:18.420
a violation of the Constitution. Freedom of assembly.

01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:24.029
I don't think these things stand up. court, really.

01:18:24.170 --> 01:18:26.470
They're arresting people for protesting. Yeah,

01:18:26.529 --> 01:18:28.949
yeah. Because they're protesting and violating

01:18:28.949 --> 01:18:31.310
social distancing and these mandates that tell

01:18:31.310 --> 01:18:33.670
people that they have to stay home. Yeah, these

01:18:33.670 --> 01:18:38.489
would definitely not stand up if the Supreme

01:18:38.489 --> 01:18:41.390
Court, I mean, it's obviously a complete violation

01:18:41.390 --> 01:18:44.310
of rights. Yeah. And again, this is not in any

01:18:44.310 --> 01:18:47.510
way disrespecting the people who have died from

01:18:47.510 --> 01:18:49.449
this disease. It's certainly a real thing to

01:18:49.449 --> 01:18:53.510
think of. Yeah, I mean, it just should be if

01:18:53.510 --> 01:18:56.109
you're at risk, you should not be compelled to

01:18:56.109 --> 01:18:58.909
leave your house or leave a place of safety,

01:18:58.989 --> 01:19:02.510
but you should also not be if you're not at risk.

01:19:02.550 --> 01:19:04.750
Or if you are at risk and you wish to take a

01:19:04.750 --> 01:19:06.810
risk with your life, you should have the right

01:19:06.810 --> 01:19:09.470
to do that. And it seems like at this point in

01:19:09.470 --> 01:19:13.010
time particularly, are resources to be best served?

01:19:13.690 --> 01:19:16.390
protecting the people that are at risk versus

01:19:16.390 --> 01:19:19.210
penalizing the people that are not at high risk

01:19:19.210 --> 01:19:21.489
for living their life the way they did, particularly

01:19:21.489 --> 01:19:24.729
having a career and making a living and feeding

01:19:24.729 --> 01:19:27.369
your family, paying your bills, keeping your

01:19:27.369 --> 01:19:30.350
store open, keeping your restaurant open. Yes.

01:19:31.189 --> 01:19:34.770
I mean, there's a strong downside to this. Yeah.

01:19:35.390 --> 01:19:40.229
So, yeah, I just believe if this is a free country,

01:19:40.310 --> 01:19:44.310
it should be. You know, allowed to do, you know,

01:19:44.310 --> 01:19:45.789
what you want as long as it does not endanger

01:19:45.789 --> 01:19:48.289
others. But that's the thing, right? People,

01:19:48.449 --> 01:19:50.130
this is the argument they will bring up. Like,

01:19:50.149 --> 01:19:52.989
you are endangering others. You should stay home

01:19:52.989 --> 01:19:56.909
for the people that, even if you're fine, even

01:19:56.909 --> 01:19:58.350
if you know you're going to be okay, there are

01:19:58.350 --> 01:20:00.270
certain people that will not be okay because

01:20:00.270 --> 01:20:03.170
of your actions. They might get exposed to this

01:20:03.170 --> 01:20:06.210
thing that we don't have a vaccine for. We don't

01:20:06.210 --> 01:20:10.630
have universally accepted treatment for. There's

01:20:10.630 --> 01:20:13.909
two arguments, right? One argument is we need

01:20:13.909 --> 01:20:16.430
to keep going, protect the weak, protect the

01:20:16.430 --> 01:20:18.609
sick, but let's open up the economy. The other

01:20:18.609 --> 01:20:22.010
argument is stop placing money over human lives

01:20:22.010 --> 01:20:26.090
and let's shelter in place until we come up with

01:20:26.090 --> 01:20:28.869
some sort of a decision and let's figure out

01:20:28.869 --> 01:20:31.710
some way to develop some sort of universal basic

01:20:31.710 --> 01:20:35.170
income plan or something like that to feed people

01:20:35.170 --> 01:20:38.989
during this time. What would make this transition?

01:20:39.289 --> 01:20:46.130
I think there's a – yeah. As I said, my opinion

01:20:46.130 --> 01:20:48.189
is if somebody wants to stay home, they should

01:20:48.189 --> 01:20:50.090
stay home. And if somebody doesn't want to stay

01:20:50.090 --> 01:20:51.510
home, they should not be compelled to stay home.

01:20:52.569 --> 01:20:55.310
That's my opinion. Do you think – And if somebody

01:20:55.310 --> 01:20:58.609
doesn't like that, well, that's my opinion. So

01:20:58.609 --> 01:21:03.760
the – now, yeah. This notion, though, that you

01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:05.699
can just sort of send checks out to everybody

01:21:05.699 --> 01:21:08.359
and things will be fine is not true, obviously.

01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:15.479
Some people have this absurd view that the economy

01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:19.960
is like some magic horn of plenty. It just makes

01:21:19.960 --> 01:21:22.970
stuff. Stuff, you know, whatever, just there's

01:21:22.970 --> 01:21:25.670
a magic water plantee and the goods and services,

01:21:25.729 --> 01:21:27.489
they just come from this magic water plantee.

01:21:27.829 --> 01:21:30.770
And then if, like if somebody has more stuff

01:21:30.770 --> 01:21:32.170
than somebody else, it's because they took more

01:21:32.170 --> 01:21:35.250
from this magic water plantee. Now let me just

01:21:35.250 --> 01:21:39.489
break it to the fools out there. If you don't

01:21:39.489 --> 01:21:47.430
make stuff, there's no stuff. Yeah. So if you

01:21:47.430 --> 01:21:50.039
don't. make the food, if you don't process the

01:21:50.039 --> 01:21:56.739
food, you don't transport the food, medical treatment,

01:21:57.079 --> 01:22:04.979
getting your teeth fixed, there's no stuff. I've

01:22:04.979 --> 01:22:09.600
become detached from reality. You can't just

01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:13.800
legislate money and solve these things. If you

01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:20.000
don't make stuff, there is no stuff. Obviously.

01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:23.079
We'll run out of the stores, run out of the,

01:22:23.079 --> 01:22:28.279
you know, the machine just grinds to a halt.

01:22:28.680 --> 01:22:32.399
But the initial thought on this virus, the real

01:22:32.399 --> 01:22:35.319
fear, was that this was going to kill hundreds

01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:38.880
of thousands, if not millions of people instantaneously

01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:41.640
in this country. It was going to do it very quickly

01:22:41.640 --> 01:22:44.380
if we didn't hunker down, if we didn't shelter

01:22:44.380 --> 01:22:46.920
in place. if we didn't quarantine ourselves or

01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:49.920
lock down, do you think that the initial thought

01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:53.140
was a good idea based on the perception that

01:22:53.140 --> 01:22:55.039
this was going to be far more deadly than it

01:22:55.039 --> 01:23:03.140
turned out to be? Maybe, I think, briefly. Briefly.

01:23:03.380 --> 01:23:09.000
Briefly. But I think any kind of sensible examination

01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:11.140
of what happened in China would lead to the conclusion

01:23:11.140 --> 01:23:13.590
that that is obviously not going to occur. This

01:23:13.590 --> 01:23:16.890
virus originated in Wuhan. There's like 100 ,000

01:23:16.890 --> 01:23:22.470
people a day leaving Wuhan. So it went everywhere

01:23:22.470 --> 01:23:26.609
very fast throughout China, throughout the rest

01:23:26.609 --> 01:23:33.550
of the world. And the fatality rate was low.

01:23:33.890 --> 01:23:36.029
Don't you think, though, it's difficult to appreciate?

01:23:36.250 --> 01:23:40.350
It's difficult to filter the information that's

01:23:40.350 --> 01:23:44.979
coming out of China. To accurately really get

01:23:44.979 --> 01:23:47.180
a real true representation of what happened.

01:23:47.359 --> 01:23:50.340
The propaganda machine is very strong. Sure.

01:23:50.479 --> 01:23:53.619
The World Health Organization appears to have

01:23:53.619 --> 01:23:56.500
been complicit with a lot of their propaganda.

01:23:57.140 --> 01:24:00.699
The thing is that American companies have massive

01:24:00.699 --> 01:24:04.439
supply chains in China, like Tesla, for example.

01:24:04.439 --> 01:24:07.680
We have hundreds of suppliers, like tier 1, 2,

01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:11.890
3, 4 suppliers throughout China. We know if they

01:24:11.890 --> 01:24:14.729
are able to make stuff or not. We know if they

01:24:14.729 --> 01:24:19.289
have issues or not. China is back at full steam.

01:24:20.949 --> 01:24:27.250
And pretty much every U .S. company has some

01:24:27.250 --> 01:24:29.010
significant number of supplies in China. So you

01:24:29.010 --> 01:24:35.010
know if they're able to provide things or not.

01:24:37.930 --> 01:24:41.470
High mortality rate. Tesla has 7 ,000 people

01:24:41.470 --> 01:24:48.630
in China. So zero people died. Zero. Okay, so

01:24:48.630 --> 01:24:51.250
that's a real statistic. That's coming from,

01:24:51.329 --> 01:24:54.670
yeah. Yeah, you know those people. Yeah. Literally,

01:24:54.710 --> 01:24:56.529
we're in peril. Do you think there's a danger

01:24:56.529 --> 01:25:02.210
of this? Same folks are there. Do you think there's

01:25:02.210 --> 01:25:04.529
a danger of politicizing this where it becomes

01:25:04.529 --> 01:25:06.970
like opening up the country's Donald Trump's?

01:25:07.289 --> 01:25:11.829
It's his goal. And then anything he does is sort

01:25:11.829 --> 01:25:14.409
of there's people that are going to oppose it

01:25:14.409 --> 01:25:16.529
and come up with some reasons why he's wrong,

01:25:16.609 --> 01:25:18.409
particularly in this climate as we're leading

01:25:18.409 --> 01:25:23.420
up to November. 2020 elections. Do you think

01:25:23.420 --> 01:25:26.640
that this is a real danger in terms of public's

01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:28.859
perception, that Trump wants to open it up so

01:25:28.859 --> 01:25:32.079
they knee -jerk oppose it because they oppose

01:25:32.079 --> 01:25:38.220
Trump? I think there has been some, this has

01:25:38.220 --> 01:25:42.779
been politicized, you know, in both directions,

01:25:42.939 --> 01:25:53.619
really. So it's, which is not great. Yeah, but

01:25:53.619 --> 01:25:55.100
like I said, separate and apart from that, I

01:25:55.100 --> 01:25:57.819
think there's the question of like where do civil

01:25:57.819 --> 01:26:01.819
liberties fit in this picture? Yeah. And what

01:26:01.819 --> 01:26:04.159
can the government make you do? What can they

01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:09.380
make you not do? And what's okay? Right. And

01:26:09.380 --> 01:26:16.159
yeah, I think we went too far. Do you think it's

01:26:16.159 --> 01:26:19.239
one of those things where once we've gone in

01:26:19.239 --> 01:26:21.659
a certain direction, it's very difficult to make

01:26:21.659 --> 01:26:25.630
a correction? make an adjustment to realize like,

01:26:25.710 --> 01:26:28.909
okay, we thought it was one thing. It's not good,

01:26:29.149 --> 01:26:30.850
but it's not what we thought it was going to

01:26:30.850 --> 01:26:33.909
be. It's not what we feared. So let's back up

01:26:33.909 --> 01:26:36.770
and reconsider and let's do this publicly and

01:26:36.770 --> 01:26:39.949
say we were acting based on the information that

01:26:39.949 --> 01:26:42.609
we had initially. That information appears to

01:26:42.609 --> 01:26:46.069
be faulty. And here's how we move forward while

01:26:46.069 --> 01:26:49.149
protecting civil liberties, while protecting

01:26:49.149 --> 01:26:51.729
what essentially this country was founded on.

01:26:52.189 --> 01:26:55.109
which is a very agreed upon amount of freedom

01:26:55.109 --> 01:26:59.149
that we respect and appreciate. Absolutely. Well,

01:26:59.170 --> 01:27:01.569
I think we're rapidly moving towards opening

01:27:01.569 --> 01:27:04.569
up the country. It's going to happen extremely

01:27:04.569 --> 01:27:12.949
fast over the next few weeks. So, yeah. Something

01:27:12.949 --> 01:27:14.949
that would be helpful just to add from an informational

01:27:14.949 --> 01:27:21.840
level is when reporting sort of... COVID cases

01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:26.140
to separate out diagnosed with COVID versus had

01:27:26.140 --> 01:27:30.380
COVID -like symptoms. Yes. Because the list of

01:27:30.380 --> 01:27:32.859
symptoms that could be COVID at this point is

01:27:32.859 --> 01:27:36.539
like a mile long. So it's like hard to, if you're

01:27:36.539 --> 01:27:39.439
ill at all, it's like it could be COVID. So just

01:27:39.439 --> 01:27:42.500
to give you better information, definitely diagnosed

01:27:42.500 --> 01:27:46.300
with COVID or had COVID -like symptoms. We're

01:27:46.300 --> 01:27:49.720
conflating those two. So it looks bigger than

01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:55.140
it is. Then if somebody dies, was COVID a primary

01:27:55.140 --> 01:28:00.520
cause of the death or not? I mean, if somebody

01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:03.600
has COVID, gets eaten by a shark, we find their

01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:08.279
arm. Their arm has COVID. It's going to get recorded

01:28:08.279 --> 01:28:12.779
as a COVID death. Is that real? Not that bad,

01:28:12.920 --> 01:28:17.659
but heart attacks, strokes, cancer. If you get

01:28:17.659 --> 01:28:21.819
hit by a bus, go to the hospital and die and

01:28:21.819 --> 01:28:23.659
they find that you have COVID, you will be recorded

01:28:23.659 --> 01:28:25.239
as a COVID death. Why would they do that though?

01:28:27.439 --> 01:28:32.300
Well, right now – so the road to hell is paved

01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:33.800
with good intentions. I mean it's mostly paved

01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:36.439
with bad intentions. But there is some good intentions

01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:41.340
paving stones in there too. And the stimulus

01:28:41.340 --> 01:28:45.630
bill that was intended to help – with the hospitals

01:28:45.630 --> 01:28:47.590
that were being overrun with COVID patients,

01:28:47.710 --> 01:28:52.550
created an incentive to record something as COVID

01:28:52.550 --> 01:28:57.989
that is difficult to say no to, especially if

01:28:57.989 --> 01:28:59.829
your hospital is going bankrupt for lack of other

01:28:59.829 --> 01:29:02.909
patients. So the hospitals are in a bind right

01:29:02.909 --> 01:29:05.710
now. There's a bunch of hospitals that are furloughing

01:29:05.710 --> 01:29:09.130
doctors, as you were mentioning. If your hospital

01:29:09.130 --> 01:29:14.600
is half full, it's hard to make ends meet. If

01:29:14.600 --> 01:29:18.100
I just check this box, I get $8 ,000. Put it

01:29:18.100 --> 01:29:19.960
on a ventilator for five minutes, I get $39 ,000.

01:29:21.800 --> 01:29:26.359
Or I've got to fire some doctors. This is a tough

01:29:26.359 --> 01:29:32.399
moral quandary. What are you going to do? That's

01:29:32.399 --> 01:29:37.500
the situation we have. What's the way out of

01:29:37.500 --> 01:29:40.319
this? What do you think is like if you had the

01:29:40.319 --> 01:29:42.659
president's ear or if people wanted to just listen

01:29:42.659 --> 01:29:45.409
to you openly? What do you think is the way out

01:29:45.409 --> 01:29:48.409
of this? Let's clear up the data. Clear up the

01:29:48.409 --> 01:29:52.090
data. So, like I said, something should be recorded

01:29:52.090 --> 01:29:54.090
as COVID only if it is somebody has been tested,

01:29:54.210 --> 01:29:58.289
has received a positive COVID test, not if they

01:29:58.289 --> 01:30:01.829
simply have symptoms, like 100 symptoms. And

01:30:01.829 --> 01:30:05.609
then if it is a COVID death, it must be separated.

01:30:05.729 --> 01:30:08.569
Was COVID a primary reason for death, or did

01:30:08.569 --> 01:30:10.529
they also have stage 3 cancer, heart disease,

01:30:10.850 --> 01:30:14.810
emphysema? and got hit by a bus and had COVID.

01:30:16.029 --> 01:30:18.189
Yeah, I've read all this stuff about that, about

01:30:18.189 --> 01:30:23.109
them diagnosing people as a COVID death despite

01:30:23.109 --> 01:30:28.550
other variables. This is not a question. This

01:30:28.550 --> 01:30:31.729
is what is occurring. And where are you reading

01:30:31.729 --> 01:30:34.350
this from? Where are you getting this from? The

01:30:34.350 --> 01:30:36.550
public health officials have literally said this.

01:30:37.100 --> 01:30:40.479
This is not a question mark. Right. But this

01:30:40.479 --> 01:30:43.199
is unprecedented, right? Like if someone had

01:30:43.199 --> 01:30:45.199
the flu but also had a heart attack, they would

01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:46.880
assume that that person died of a heart attack.

01:30:47.220 --> 01:30:50.359
Yes. Yeah. So this is unprecedented. Is this

01:30:50.359 --> 01:30:54.180
because this is such a popular – I don't want

01:30:54.180 --> 01:30:56.159
to use that word the wrong way, but that's what

01:30:56.159 --> 01:31:01.220
I mean, a popular subject. And financial incentives.

01:31:01.619 --> 01:31:04.819
Yes. And like I said, this is not some sort of

01:31:04.819 --> 01:31:08.399
a moral indictment of sort of hospital administrators.

01:31:08.539 --> 01:31:15.140
It's just they're in a tough spot here. They

01:31:15.140 --> 01:31:19.100
actually don't have enough patients to pay everyone

01:31:19.100 --> 01:31:23.220
without furloughing doctors and firing staff

01:31:23.220 --> 01:31:28.460
and potentially going bankrupt. So then they're

01:31:28.460 --> 01:31:31.000
like, okay, well, the stimulus bill says if we

01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:36.520
get all this money if we say – if it's a COVID

01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:39.539
death. I'm like, okay. They coughed before they

01:31:39.539 --> 01:31:42.920
died. In fact, they're not even diagnosed as

01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:45.680
COVID. They simply – if you had weakness, a cough,

01:31:45.979 --> 01:31:48.779
shortness of breath. Frankly, I'm not sure how

01:31:48.779 --> 01:31:53.840
you die without those things. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

01:31:53.880 --> 01:31:56.909
There's so many different – that you could attribute

01:31:56.909 --> 01:31:59.449
to COVID too. There's so many symptoms. There's

01:31:59.449 --> 01:32:03.750
diarrhea, headaches, dehydration, cough. Yes,

01:32:03.750 --> 01:32:06.369
but to be clear, you don't even need to have

01:32:06.369 --> 01:32:09.970
gotten a COVID diagnosis. You simply need to

01:32:09.970 --> 01:32:14.550
have had one of many symptoms and then have died

01:32:14.550 --> 01:32:20.550
for some reason and it's COVID. So then it makes

01:32:20.550 --> 01:32:23.069
the death count look very high. And then we're

01:32:23.069 --> 01:32:25.210
then stuck in a bind because it looks like the

01:32:25.210 --> 01:32:27.210
death count is super high and not going down

01:32:27.210 --> 01:32:31.310
like it should be. And now – so then we should

01:32:31.310 --> 01:32:38.189
keep whatever – keep the shelter -in -place stuff

01:32:38.189 --> 01:32:41.750
there and keep people in their – confine people

01:32:41.750 --> 01:32:44.050
to their homes. So we need to break out of this.

01:32:44.409 --> 01:32:47.930
We're stuck in a loop. Yeah. And I think the

01:32:47.930 --> 01:32:49.630
way to break out of this loop is to have clarity

01:32:49.630 --> 01:32:53.029
of information. Clarity of information will certainly

01:32:53.029 --> 01:32:56.949
help, but altering perceptions, public perception

01:32:56.949 --> 01:32:59.989
from people that are basically in a panic. There's

01:32:59.989 --> 01:33:03.609
a lot of essentially, well, at least a month

01:33:03.609 --> 01:33:07.109
ago, we're clearly in a panic. I mean, when you

01:33:07.109 --> 01:33:10.750
look around April 5th, April 6th, people were

01:33:10.750 --> 01:33:14.010
really freaking out. But here we are May, and

01:33:14.010 --> 01:33:17.779
May people are relaxing a little bit. Yes. They're

01:33:17.779 --> 01:33:20.340
realizing like, hey, I actually know a couple

01:33:20.340 --> 01:33:22.340
of people that got it. It was just a cough. And

01:33:22.340 --> 01:33:23.800
I know some people that got it where nothing

01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:25.699
happened. I know a lot of people who got it.

01:33:28.779 --> 01:33:31.439
I know zero people who died. I mean, I know a

01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:35.420
lot of people who got it. Yeah, it's not what

01:33:35.420 --> 01:33:38.739
we feared. We feared something much worse. That's

01:33:38.739 --> 01:33:40.699
correct. So the adjustment's difficult to make.

01:33:40.760 --> 01:33:43.079
So you said, first of all, we need real data.

01:33:43.470 --> 01:33:46.930
Just parse out the data. Don't lump it all together.

01:33:47.270 --> 01:33:52.390
If you give people just parse out the data better,

01:33:52.489 --> 01:33:58.970
clearer information about, like I said, was this

01:33:58.970 --> 01:34:02.409
an actual COVID diagnosis or did they get the

01:34:02.409 --> 01:34:04.489
test and the test came back positive or do they

01:34:04.489 --> 01:34:06.729
just have some symptoms? Just parse those two

01:34:06.729 --> 01:34:11.149
out and then parse out just if somebody died,

01:34:11.250 --> 01:34:14.409
did they die? Did they even have a COVID test

01:34:14.409 --> 01:34:17.869
or did they just have one of many symptoms? Like

01:34:17.869 --> 01:34:20.770
how do you die without weakness? I don't know.

01:34:21.149 --> 01:34:23.470
It's impossible basically. Yeah, that's a good

01:34:23.470 --> 01:34:24.689
point. If you're going to die, you're going to

01:34:24.689 --> 01:34:27.210
have shortness of breath weakness and you might

01:34:27.210 --> 01:34:31.409
cough a little. So was it quantified? Yeah. Did

01:34:31.409 --> 01:34:34.350
they actually have a COVID test and the test

01:34:34.350 --> 01:34:36.970
come back positive? And then if they died, did

01:34:36.970 --> 01:34:41.199
they die where COVID was? It doesn't have to

01:34:41.199 --> 01:34:43.779
be the main cause, but it was a significant contributor

01:34:43.779 --> 01:34:47.340
to their death. Or was it not a significant contributor

01:34:47.340 --> 01:34:51.399
to their death? Right. It's not as simple as

01:34:51.399 --> 01:34:54.239
just because you had COVID, COVID killed you.

01:34:55.319 --> 01:34:58.579
It's definitely not. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

01:34:58.600 --> 01:35:00.079
people die all the time and they have like flu

01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:03.199
and other colds. And we don't say that they died

01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:04.960
of those flu and other colds. Well, that's what's

01:35:04.960 --> 01:35:08.609
so weird about this. It's so popular. And I use

01:35:08.609 --> 01:35:10.729
that word in a weird way, but it's so popular

01:35:10.729 --> 01:35:13.649
that we've kind of forgotten. People die of pneumonia

01:35:13.649 --> 01:35:17.810
every day. People die of the flu didn't take

01:35:17.810 --> 01:35:20.350
a break. Oh, COVID's got this. I'm going to sit

01:35:20.350 --> 01:35:22.229
this one out. I'm going to be on the bench. I'm

01:35:22.229 --> 01:35:24.729
going to wait until COVID's done before I jump

01:35:24.729 --> 01:35:27.109
back into the game of killing people. No, the

01:35:27.109 --> 01:35:29.510
flu's still here killing people. I mean, every

01:35:29.510 --> 01:35:31.689
year in the world, several hundred thousand people

01:35:31.689 --> 01:35:35.630
die directly of the flu. Yeah. Not tangentially.

01:35:35.710 --> 01:35:40.279
Right. 61 ,000 in this country last year. Yeah,

01:35:40.359 --> 01:35:42.899
and we're only 5 % of the world. And then there's

01:35:42.899 --> 01:35:46.140
cigarettes. Oh, man, cigarettes will really kill

01:35:46.140 --> 01:35:48.819
you. That's a weird one, right? We're terrified

01:35:48.819 --> 01:35:52.020
of this disease that we're projected could potentially

01:35:52.020 --> 01:35:55.539
kill 100, if not 200 ,000 Americans this year,

01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:58.460
with cigarettes kill 500 ,000. And you don't

01:35:58.460 --> 01:36:02.000
hear a peep out of any politician. There's no

01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:03.899
one running for Congress that's trying to ban

01:36:03.899 --> 01:36:06.340
cigarettes. There's no one running for Senate

01:36:06.340 --> 01:36:08.399
that wants to put some education plan in place

01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:10.439
that's going to stop cigarettes in their tracks.

01:36:10.899 --> 01:36:16.260
Yeah. I mean, several years ago, maybe 10 years

01:36:16.260 --> 01:36:18.340
ago, I helped make a movie called Thank You for

01:36:18.340 --> 01:36:32.380
Smoking. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

01:36:34.819 --> 01:36:37.180
Barbecuing your lungs is just bad news. It's

01:36:37.180 --> 01:36:40.560
not good. Turning your lungs into smoked beef

01:36:40.560 --> 01:36:47.640
is not great. So, yeah. Tylenol, by the way,

01:36:47.680 --> 01:36:49.640
also kills a lot of people. Yeah, what is the

01:36:49.640 --> 01:36:52.500
number for Tylenol every year? I'm not sure of

01:36:52.500 --> 01:36:55.600
the exact number, but I believe until the opioid

01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:58.119
crisis, I believe Tylenol was the number one

01:36:58.119 --> 01:37:02.520
killer of all drugs. Wow. Because basically it's

01:37:02.520 --> 01:37:06.020
– if you get drunk and take a lot of Tylenol,

01:37:06.079 --> 01:37:10.180
acetaminophen, essentially it causes liver failure.

01:37:10.579 --> 01:37:14.640
Oh. So people would like get wasted and then

01:37:14.640 --> 01:37:17.000
like have a headache and then pop a ton of Tylenol.

01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:20.479
It's curtains. Whoa. Yeah. Curtains is a funny

01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:25.319
word. Yeah. But nobody is like raging against

01:37:25.319 --> 01:37:29.460
Tylenol. Yeah. It's weird except acceptable deaths

01:37:29.460 --> 01:37:31.760
are weird and that's the real the slippery slope

01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:34.960
about this people shaming people For wanting

01:37:34.960 --> 01:37:36.699
to go back to work, you know and other people

01:37:36.699 --> 01:37:39.680
are gonna die Well, if you drive do you drive?

01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:41.960
Oh, we should stop driving because people die

01:37:41.960 --> 01:37:45.300
from driving So, you know, you definitely should

01:37:45.300 --> 01:37:48.060
fill up all the swimming pools because like 50

01:37:48.060 --> 01:37:49.979
people die every day in this country from swimming

01:37:50.619 --> 01:37:54.640
So let's not swim anymore. What is really dangerous?

01:37:54.899 --> 01:37:56.520
We need to chop down all the coconut trees. Stop

01:37:56.520 --> 01:37:59.539
water. Coconuts kill 150 people every year. Cut

01:37:59.539 --> 01:38:01.300
down all the coconut trees. We need those people.

01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:05.819
Yes. At a certain point in time, it's like, yeah,

01:38:06.539 --> 01:38:10.359
we're vulnerable. And we're also – we have a

01:38:10.359 --> 01:38:12.859
finite existence no matter what. We do. Nobody

01:38:12.859 --> 01:38:17.439
lives forever. Right. I mean, I think you want

01:38:17.439 --> 01:38:20.960
to look at, say, death as like the – But for

01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:24.100
this disease or whatever, they would have lived

01:38:24.100 --> 01:38:28.560
X number of years. Yeah. So if somebody dies

01:38:28.560 --> 01:38:30.920
when they're 20 and could have lived until 80,

01:38:31.020 --> 01:38:33.899
they lost 60 years. But if somebody dies when

01:38:33.899 --> 01:38:35.979
they're 80 and they might have lived until 81,

01:38:36.079 --> 01:38:38.779
they lost one year. Yes. So it's like how many

01:38:38.779 --> 01:38:43.699
life years were lost is probably the right metric

01:38:43.699 --> 01:38:46.880
to use. I don't read my own comments, but I do

01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:48.239
read other people's comments. And I was reading

01:38:48.239 --> 01:38:49.819
this one little Twitter beef that was going on.

01:38:50.329 --> 01:38:53.689
where someone was saying that COVID takes an

01:38:53.689 --> 01:38:57.130
average of 10 years off people's lives, and we

01:38:57.130 --> 01:38:59.390
should appreciate those 10 years. And then someone

01:38:59.390 --> 01:39:01.569
else said... It's not true. I'm sure it's not

01:39:01.569 --> 01:39:02.689
true. Yeah, definitely not. It's the Twitter.

01:39:02.829 --> 01:39:07.069
But someone else said the average age of people

01:39:07.069 --> 01:39:09.930
who die from COVID is older than the average

01:39:09.930 --> 01:39:14.310
age people die. It's very... Let's just say it's

01:39:14.310 --> 01:39:18.329
about the same. That's a beautiful way of looking

01:39:18.329 --> 01:39:21.850
at it. I mean, it's unfortunate. It sucks. But

01:39:21.850 --> 01:39:25.289
it sucks if grandpa dies of Alzheimer's or emphysema

01:39:25.289 --> 01:39:28.789
or leukemia. It sucks. It sucks when someone

01:39:28.789 --> 01:39:34.130
you love dies. Yes. But I mean, actually, if

01:39:34.130 --> 01:39:38.430
this I think a lesson to be taken here that I

01:39:38.430 --> 01:39:43.020
think is quite important is that if. If you have

01:39:43.020 --> 01:39:45.859
grandparents and they're aging grandparents,

01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:52.500
really be careful with any kind of flu or cold

01:39:52.500 --> 01:39:57.640
or something that is not dangerous to kids or

01:39:57.640 --> 01:40:00.079
young adults but is dangerous to the elderly.

01:40:01.239 --> 01:40:04.500
Basically, if your kid's got a runny nose, they

01:40:04.500 --> 01:40:06.460
should stay away from their... Grandparents,

01:40:06.560 --> 01:40:12.619
no matter what it is. The things where a young

01:40:12.619 --> 01:40:15.739
immune system has no problem, an older one has

01:40:15.739 --> 01:40:20.300
a problem. In fact, a lot of the deaths are literally

01:40:20.300 --> 01:40:25.819
tragic, but they're intrafamily. It's the little

01:40:25.819 --> 01:40:32.159
kid had a cold or flu. Give it to grandpa. Yeah,

01:40:32.180 --> 01:40:34.439
yeah, the family gathering. And they don't know

01:40:34.439 --> 01:40:37.960
that this is a big deal, but it's just important

01:40:37.960 --> 01:40:40.000
to remember when you get old, your immune system

01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:43.699
is just not that strong. And so just be careful

01:40:43.699 --> 01:40:48.659
with your loved ones who are elderly. And I think

01:40:48.659 --> 01:40:54.180
there is some true objective understanding of

01:40:54.180 --> 01:40:56.460
the immune system and the ways to boost that

01:40:56.460 --> 01:40:59.520
immune system. And I really think that that...

01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:04.460
That information should be distributed in a way,

01:41:04.520 --> 01:41:08.779
a nonjudgmental way, but this is a scientifically

01:41:08.779 --> 01:41:12.180
proven way that we can boost our immune system,

01:41:12.239 --> 01:41:14.060
and it might save your life, and it might save

01:41:14.060 --> 01:41:16.060
the life of your loved ones, and maybe we could

01:41:16.060 --> 01:41:18.680
teach this to our grandparents and our parents

01:41:18.680 --> 01:41:22.739
and people that are vulnerable. Vitamin C, heat

01:41:22.739 --> 01:41:24.600
shock proteins, all these different variables

01:41:24.600 --> 01:41:27.699
that we know contribute to a stronger immune

01:41:27.699 --> 01:41:36.409
system. Yeah, actually just a thing that is tough,

01:41:36.609 --> 01:41:41.670
like when you – as you get older, it's hard to

01:41:41.670 --> 01:41:45.949
be – you tend to put on weight. Certainly that's

01:41:45.949 --> 01:41:48.130
happening with me. As older I get, I'm like,

01:41:48.189 --> 01:41:51.109
damn, it's harder to stay lean. That's for sure.

01:41:52.810 --> 01:41:56.229
And so actually being overweight is a big deal.

01:41:56.329 --> 01:42:02.050
It's a fact. The New York hospital said it was

01:42:02.050 --> 01:42:05.649
the number one factor for severe COVID symptoms

01:42:05.649 --> 01:42:08.029
was obesity. That was the number one factor.

01:42:08.289 --> 01:42:13.609
Yes, exactly. But it's also we live in a world

01:42:13.609 --> 01:42:17.789
where people want to be sensitive to other people's

01:42:17.789 --> 01:42:21.390
feelings. So we don't want to bring up the fact

01:42:21.390 --> 01:42:24.310
that. Being fat's bad for you. It's a judgment

01:42:24.310 --> 01:42:27.770
on your... Food's great. Yeah, I do love food.

01:42:28.029 --> 01:42:30.409
Yeah, and I mean, to be totally frank, I mean,

01:42:30.409 --> 01:42:33.649
speaking for myself, I'd rather eat tasty food

01:42:33.649 --> 01:42:38.489
and live a shorter life. Yeah, those moments

01:42:38.489 --> 01:42:42.109
of enjoying a great meal and then even talking

01:42:42.109 --> 01:42:43.750
about it, they're valuable. They're worth something.

01:42:44.510 --> 01:42:46.750
Yeah, we don't want to eat Soylent Green and

01:42:46.750 --> 01:42:51.970
live to be 160. Tasty food is great. It's one

01:42:51.970 --> 01:42:53.710
of the best things about life. It really is.

01:42:53.890 --> 01:42:56.630
Yeah, it's an art form as well. It's like fine

01:42:56.630 --> 01:43:03.869
food. It's a delicious sandcastle. It's temporary.

01:43:04.069 --> 01:43:06.310
It doesn't last very long, but there's something

01:43:06.310 --> 01:43:13.560
about it that's very pleasing. I don't know what

01:43:13.560 --> 01:43:17.920
advice to give. Maybe have tasty food with smaller

01:43:17.920 --> 01:43:23.279
amounts of it. Yes. Yeah. I think regulated feeding

01:43:23.279 --> 01:43:25.220
window is really the way to go, some sort of

01:43:25.220 --> 01:43:27.619
an intermittent fasting approach. Sure. When

01:43:27.619 --> 01:43:31.659
I started doing that, I found myself to be quite

01:43:31.659 --> 01:43:33.399
a bit healthier. When I've deviated from that,

01:43:33.439 --> 01:43:36.899
I've gained weight. What's – 16 hours. Okay.

01:43:37.020 --> 01:43:40.439
16 hours, yeah. So like at night or – Yeah, yeah,

01:43:40.439 --> 01:43:43.460
yeah. So I get to a certain point and then I

01:43:43.460 --> 01:43:46.779
count out. I usually hit the stopwatch on my

01:43:46.779 --> 01:43:50.270
phone. And then I look at 15 hours in, and I'm

01:43:50.270 --> 01:43:52.510
like, okay, got an hour before I can eat. And

01:43:52.510 --> 01:43:55.369
so anything in between that is just water or

01:43:55.369 --> 01:43:59.310
coffee. Actually, you know, this may be a useful

01:43:59.310 --> 01:44:02.770
bit of advice for people, but eating before you

01:44:02.770 --> 01:44:05.310
go to bed is a real bad idea. It actually negatively

01:44:05.310 --> 01:44:07.869
affects your sleep. Yeah. And it can actually

01:44:07.869 --> 01:44:11.149
cause heartburn that you don't even know is happening.

01:44:11.630 --> 01:44:15.029
And that subtle heartburn affects your sleep

01:44:15.029 --> 01:44:18.229
because you're horizontal and your body is digesting.

01:44:18.909 --> 01:44:20.869
So if you want to improve the quality of your

01:44:20.869 --> 01:44:26.680
sleep and, you know. you know be healthier uh

01:44:26.680 --> 01:44:29.079
it's it's do not eat right before we go to sleep

01:44:29.079 --> 01:44:30.800
yeah it's like one of the worst things you could

01:44:30.800 --> 01:44:33.000
do i've done some of the biggest mistakes i've

01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:34.939
ever made i've done that uh particularly after

01:44:34.939 --> 01:44:37.520
comedy shows i'm starving i'll come home and

01:44:37.520 --> 01:44:39.739
i'll eat and then i go to bed and i just feel

01:44:39.739 --> 01:44:42.060
like and i wake up in the middle of the night

01:44:42.060 --> 01:44:44.699
it's gonna crush your sleep and it's gonna it's

01:44:44.699 --> 01:44:48.680
gonna damage your pyloric sphincter in your esophagus.

01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:53.579
In fact, drinking and then going to sleep, that's

01:44:53.579 --> 01:44:58.220
one of the worst things you could do. So just

01:44:58.220 --> 01:45:03.220
try to avoid drinking and eating. Booze. Exactly.

01:45:05.180 --> 01:45:11.199
Small amounts of alcohol, evidence suggests it

01:45:11.199 --> 01:45:15.479
doesn't have a... negative effect. I put it in

01:45:15.479 --> 01:45:17.359
the same category as delicious food. It kind

01:45:17.359 --> 01:45:19.500
of makes things a little more fun. Yeah, yeah.

01:45:19.659 --> 01:45:22.199
I like it. I mean, some of the people who have

01:45:22.199 --> 01:45:24.920
lived the longest, you know, there was a woman

01:45:24.920 --> 01:45:27.220
in France who I think maybe has the record or

01:45:27.220 --> 01:45:29.579
close to it and she had a glass of wine every

01:45:29.579 --> 01:45:34.840
day, you know. Yeah. Small amounts is fine. But,

01:45:34.979 --> 01:45:38.579
yeah, this is like a, I learned this like quite

01:45:38.579 --> 01:45:41.079
late in life. It's like just avoid having alcohol

01:45:41.079 --> 01:45:44.289
and avoid eating at least two or three hours

01:45:44.289 --> 01:45:46.510
before going to sleep, and your quality of sleep

01:45:46.510 --> 01:45:50.170
will improve, and your general health will improve

01:45:50.170 --> 01:45:53.310
a lot. For sure. It's a big deal, and I think

01:45:53.310 --> 01:45:56.069
not widely known. Do you have time to exercise?

01:45:57.829 --> 01:46:01.850
A little bit. Do you have a trainer or anything?

01:46:02.829 --> 01:46:06.170
I do, although I haven't seen him for a while.

01:46:06.350 --> 01:46:12.510
But, yeah, especially if I'm out, like, you know,

01:46:12.529 --> 01:46:14.829
say, working on Starship or something in South

01:46:14.829 --> 01:46:18.470
Texas and I'm just living in my little house

01:46:18.470 --> 01:46:22.909
there in Boca Chica Village. I don't have much

01:46:22.909 --> 01:46:26.789
to do. I'm working and I'll just lift some weights

01:46:26.789 --> 01:46:33.189
or something. Some people love running. I don't

01:46:33.189 --> 01:46:36.250
love running. What do you like to do exercise

01:46:36.250 --> 01:46:41.289
-wise? Too totally frank, I wouldn't exercise

01:46:41.289 --> 01:46:46.170
at all. I'd prefer not to exercise, but if I'm

01:46:46.170 --> 01:46:50.369
going to exercise, lift some weights and then

01:46:50.369 --> 01:46:53.569
kind of run on the treadmill and maybe watch

01:46:53.569 --> 01:46:57.010
a show. If there's a compelling show that pulls

01:46:57.010 --> 01:46:59.229
you in. Right, right, right. That's a good thing

01:46:59.229 --> 01:47:02.909
to do. Watch a good movie or episode of Black

01:47:02.909 --> 01:47:04.449
Mirror or something like that. It's great. Man,

01:47:04.489 --> 01:47:06.289
don't watch Black Mirror before going to bed

01:47:06.289 --> 01:47:07.930
either. Well, don't watch Black Mirror today.

01:47:08.449 --> 01:47:10.710
It's too fucking accurate. Yeah, exactly. It's

01:47:10.710 --> 01:47:12.569
like, wait, this already happened in real life.

01:47:13.350 --> 01:47:16.409
Yeah, it's too close. It's too close. Well, even

01:47:16.409 --> 01:47:18.609
didn't Jamie, didn't you say that the guy who

01:47:18.609 --> 01:47:23.369
makes Black Mirror? Yeah, he said it's not a

01:47:23.369 --> 01:47:25.449
good time to start season six. Yeah, he wants

01:47:25.449 --> 01:47:29.329
to hold off because reality is Black Mirror.

01:47:29.470 --> 01:47:32.510
Oh, man. It's like he's going to have to reassess

01:47:32.510 --> 01:47:36.550
and attack it from a different angle. Yeah. You

01:47:36.550 --> 01:47:39.409
should try something that's fun to do. That's

01:47:39.409 --> 01:47:42.630
not just like learn a martial art or something

01:47:42.630 --> 01:47:44.529
like that. I did martial arts when I was a kid.

01:47:44.670 --> 01:47:50.010
Did you? What did you do? I did Taekwondo. I

01:47:50.010 --> 01:47:57.300
did karate. Oh, all right. Cool. Judo. Oh, so

01:47:57.300 --> 01:48:05.920
you really branched out. Yeah. So I did Brazilian

01:48:05.920 --> 01:48:08.859
Jiu -Jitsu briefly. Did you? Yeah. Where? In

01:48:08.859 --> 01:48:12.199
Palo Alto. Really? Yeah. Oh, no shit. I was going

01:48:12.199 --> 01:48:14.420
to suggest that. That's a great thing for people.

01:48:15.260 --> 01:48:18.319
That's the thing about jiu -jitsu. If you look

01:48:18.319 --> 01:48:20.300
at it from the outside, you think, oh, a bunch

01:48:20.300 --> 01:48:22.579
of meatheads strangling each other. But there's

01:48:22.579 --> 01:48:24.840
some of the smartest people I know are jiu -jitsu

01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:28.699
fiends because they get – first of all, they

01:48:28.699 --> 01:48:30.880
get introduced to it because usually either they

01:48:30.880 --> 01:48:32.939
want to exercise or learn some self -defense.

01:48:33.079 --> 01:48:35.640
But then they realize that it's essentially like

01:48:35.640 --> 01:48:38.850
a language. with your body like you're having

01:48:38.850 --> 01:48:41.289
an argument with someone with some sort of a

01:48:41.289 --> 01:48:44.550
physical language and it's really complex and

01:48:44.550 --> 01:48:48.149
the more access to Vocabulary and the sharper

01:48:48.149 --> 01:48:51.390
your words are sure the the more you'll succeed

01:48:51.390 --> 01:48:55.630
in these ventures That's really also an accurate

01:48:55.630 --> 01:48:58.039
analogy of what you just do is Yeah, I mean,

01:48:58.039 --> 01:49:02.359
probably like a lot of people, for the way early

01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:06.199
day, the first MMA fights in Hoist Gracie, and

01:49:06.199 --> 01:49:10.600
it was incredible. Technique. Yeah, yeah. It

01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:13.060
was like winning against people way bigger and

01:49:13.060 --> 01:49:14.539
that kind of thing. It was just like, whoa, this

01:49:14.539 --> 01:49:16.699
is cool. It was what martial arts were supposed

01:49:16.699 --> 01:49:19.399
to be when we were kids. When you saw Bruce Lee

01:49:19.399 --> 01:49:21.619
fuck up all these big, giant guys, like, wow,

01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:25.119
martial arts allow you to beat someone far bigger

01:49:25.119 --> 01:49:28.560
and stronger than you. Most of the time, that's

01:49:28.560 --> 01:49:30.720
not real. Especially if they know martial arts,

01:49:30.819 --> 01:49:34.899
too. It's like, oh, no. Yes, but in the UFC,

01:49:35.140 --> 01:49:38.619
when Hoist Gracie, off of his back, was strangling

01:49:38.619 --> 01:49:41.039
Dan Severin with his legs, you're like, holy

01:49:41.039 --> 01:49:44.479
shit. This guy's being pinned by this big, giant

01:49:44.479 --> 01:49:47.159
wrestler, and he wraps his legs around his neck

01:49:47.159 --> 01:49:49.220
and chokes him to the point the guy has to surrender.

01:49:49.640 --> 01:49:52.699
Amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, Hoist

01:49:52.699 --> 01:49:55.260
got beaten up pretty bad in some of those. Well,

01:49:55.359 --> 01:49:56.930
he definitely did. had some rough fights but

01:49:56.930 --> 01:50:01.109
he won he won yeah he's a legend and but what

01:50:01.109 --> 01:50:04.369
it showed and i mean i'm a huge lover of jujitsu

01:50:04.369 --> 01:50:07.770
what it showed is that there is a method for

01:50:07.770 --> 01:50:11.930
uh for diffusing these situations with technique

01:50:11.930 --> 01:50:15.270
and knowledge yeah and i think it's also a great

01:50:15.270 --> 01:50:17.699
way to exercise too because It's almost like

01:50:17.699 --> 01:50:20.020
the exercise is secondary to the learning of

01:50:20.020 --> 01:50:24.100
the thing. The exercise is like you want to develop

01:50:24.100 --> 01:50:25.819
strength and conditioning just so that you can

01:50:25.819 --> 01:50:27.859
be better at doing the thing. And the analogy

01:50:27.859 --> 01:50:30.520
that I use is like imagine if you had a race

01:50:30.520 --> 01:50:33.960
car and you could actually give the race car

01:50:33.960 --> 01:50:36.560
better handling and more horsepower just from

01:50:36.560 --> 01:50:39.039
your own focus and effort. Sure. That's really

01:50:39.039 --> 01:50:42.810
what it's like. Yeah, totally. Yeah. When am

01:50:42.810 --> 01:50:45.189
I going to be able to? I should say I sent my

01:50:45.189 --> 01:50:49.090
kids to jujitsu since they were like, I don't

01:50:49.090 --> 01:50:51.670
know, six. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's awesome.

01:50:53.210 --> 01:50:56.069
It's a great thing to learn. It really is. Yeah.

01:50:57.010 --> 01:50:59.270
Maybe something like, I mean, even if you just

01:50:59.270 --> 01:51:01.989
have someone that holds the pads for you, you

01:51:01.989 --> 01:51:06.189
get a workout in and it would be fun. When am

01:51:06.189 --> 01:51:07.529
I going to be able to buy one of them Roadsters?

01:51:07.729 --> 01:51:10.970
When's that happening? Well, I can't, you know.

01:51:12.770 --> 01:51:18.630
say exactly when, but we've got to get it. This

01:51:18.630 --> 01:51:21.689
COVID thing has kind of thrown us for a loop.

01:51:21.810 --> 01:51:27.270
I'm sure. Not to blame everything on COVID, but

01:51:27.270 --> 01:51:34.010
it certainly set us back on progress for some

01:51:34.010 --> 01:51:37.989
number of months. The things we've got to get

01:51:37.989 --> 01:51:43.090
done. Ahead of Roadster are, you know, ramping

01:51:43.090 --> 01:51:46.970
up Model Y production. That'll be a great, great

01:51:46.970 --> 01:51:51.930
car. It is a great car. Getting the Berlin Gigafactory

01:51:51.930 --> 01:51:58.310
built and also building Y, expanding the Shanghai

01:51:58.310 --> 01:52:04.449
factory, which is going great. And, you know,

01:52:04.489 --> 01:52:09.729
there's a Cybertruck, SemiTruck, Roadster. Roaster's

01:52:09.729 --> 01:52:13.489
kind of like dessert. So, like, we got to get

01:52:13.489 --> 01:52:16.729
the, you know, meat and potatoes and greens and

01:52:16.729 --> 01:52:19.729
stuff. You know, like. But Roaster comes before

01:52:19.729 --> 01:52:26.510
Cybertruck. I mean, I think we should do Cybertruck

01:52:26.510 --> 01:52:30.770
first before Roaster. Interesting. I'm not mad

01:52:30.770 --> 01:52:33.670
at that. Some of the things for Roaster, they're,

01:52:33.909 --> 01:52:37.880
you know, the tri -motor plaid powertrain. We're

01:52:37.880 --> 01:52:41.260
going to have that in Model S. So that's like

01:52:41.260 --> 01:52:44.119
one of the ingredients that's needed for Roadster

01:52:44.119 --> 01:52:47.260
is the Plaid powertrain, the more advanced battery

01:52:47.260 --> 01:52:48.960
pack, that kind of thing. I wanted to ask you

01:52:48.960 --> 01:52:50.640
about this before I forgot. There's a company

01:52:50.640 --> 01:52:53.199
that's called Apex that's taking your Teslas,

01:52:53.199 --> 01:52:57.720
and they're giving it a wider base and wider

01:52:57.720 --> 01:53:00.279
tires and a little bit more advanced suspension.

01:53:01.020 --> 01:53:03.199
Sure. How do you feel about that? That sounds

01:53:03.199 --> 01:53:04.359
good to me. Do you work with them? Are you cool

01:53:04.359 --> 01:53:07.869
with those people? Yeah. I'm all for it. Go ahead.

01:53:08.329 --> 01:53:11.649
They're jazzing stuff up with carbon fiber and

01:53:11.649 --> 01:53:14.170
doing a bunch of interior choices. You're cool

01:53:14.170 --> 01:53:15.869
with it? You can't fuck with that. You don't

01:53:15.869 --> 01:53:18.149
have time. So is it good that someone comes along

01:53:18.149 --> 01:53:20.149
and has this sort of specialty operation? Yeah,

01:53:20.189 --> 01:53:21.449
I got no problem. That's what it's called, right?

01:53:21.550 --> 01:53:24.170
It's like, J -Mac, is it called Apex? Yeah, I

01:53:24.170 --> 01:53:26.789
got Unplugged Performance as Apex. That's right,

01:53:26.970 --> 01:53:28.810
Unplugged Performance, yeah. Yeah, you could

01:53:28.810 --> 01:53:34.970
for sure. Lighten the car up and improve to tire

01:53:34.970 --> 01:53:36.890
traction. Have you seen that company's stuff,

01:53:37.050 --> 01:53:39.010
what they do? I don't know specifically, but

01:53:39.010 --> 01:53:40.989
there's – It's pretty dope. Yeah. They make a

01:53:40.989 --> 01:53:43.229
pretty dope looking – they take Model S and they

01:53:43.229 --> 01:53:45.409
widen it and give it a bunch of carbon fiber.

01:53:45.449 --> 01:53:47.850
That's it right there. Cool. Ooh, la, la. Look

01:53:47.850 --> 01:53:49.829
at that. That looks pretty nice. Yeah, it does.

01:53:50.409 --> 01:53:54.869
Now, the plaid version of the Model S, are you

01:53:54.869 --> 01:53:57.069
going to widen the track and doing a bunch –

01:53:57.529 --> 01:53:58.789
Do a bunch of different things. I know you guys

01:53:58.789 --> 01:54:00.930
are testing at the Nürburgring. Can you not talk

01:54:00.930 --> 01:54:02.750
about that? Well, I think we've got to leave

01:54:02.750 --> 01:54:06.470
that for a proper product unveil. I understand.

01:54:06.729 --> 01:54:10.109
I understand. Last time you were here, you convinced

01:54:10.109 --> 01:54:13.189
me to buy a Tesla. I bought it, and it's fucking

01:54:13.189 --> 01:54:15.449
insane. Oh, great. Glad you like it. Pretty fun.

01:54:16.189 --> 01:54:19.170
It's not just pretty fun. The way I've described

01:54:19.170 --> 01:54:21.729
it is it makes other cars seem stupid. They just

01:54:21.729 --> 01:54:24.970
seem dumb. I love dumb things. I love dumb cars.

01:54:25.170 --> 01:54:28.609
I love campfires. I love campfires. I have a

01:54:28.609 --> 01:54:33.409
1993 Porsche that's air -cooled. It's not that

01:54:33.409 --> 01:54:35.850
fast. It's really slow compared to the Tesla.

01:54:35.949 --> 01:54:38.529
Yeah, it's really quite slow. But there's something

01:54:38.529 --> 01:54:42.960
engaging about the mechanical. just like the

01:54:42.960 --> 01:54:46.420
the gears and it's very it's very analog but

01:54:46.420 --> 01:54:49.500
it's so stupid in comparison to the tesla like

01:54:49.500 --> 01:54:51.380
when i want to go somewhere in the model s i

01:54:51.380 --> 01:54:54.760
hit the gas and just goes yeah it just it like

01:54:54.760 --> 01:55:00.100
violates time yeah yeah um yeah you've tried

01:55:00.100 --> 01:55:02.340
it like ludicrous plus and stuff oh yeah cool

01:55:02.340 --> 01:55:05.239
cool yeah oh yeah we did just did a software

01:55:05.239 --> 01:55:07.159
update where it'll do a like a cheetah stance

01:55:08.240 --> 01:55:12.039
So, yeah, because it's got a dynamic air suspension,

01:55:12.260 --> 01:55:15.060
so it lowers the back. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, just

01:55:15.060 --> 01:55:17.119
like a sprinter, basically. Right. Like, what

01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:18.680
do you do if you're a sprinter? You hunker down,

01:55:18.840 --> 01:55:22.939
and then, so I shaved like a tenth of a second

01:55:22.939 --> 01:55:25.840
off the 0 -60. I mean, like, you know, it was

01:55:25.840 --> 01:55:28.520
pretty fun. It's so fun. I've taken so many people,

01:55:28.619 --> 01:55:31.239
and I take them for the holy shit moment. I'm

01:55:31.239 --> 01:55:33.000
like, are you ready? Like, hang on there, and

01:55:33.000 --> 01:55:34.720
then I stomp on the gas. I've never felt anything

01:55:34.720 --> 01:55:38.420
like it. It's confusing. Yeah. It really is.

01:55:38.720 --> 01:55:42.659
The instant torque and just the sheer acceleration

01:55:42.659 --> 01:55:45.680
is baffling. It's baffling. It's baffling. They've

01:55:45.680 --> 01:55:47.500
never felt it. No. It's faster than falling.

01:55:47.819 --> 01:55:50.979
It's crazy. It's so fast. It's a roller coaster.

01:55:51.180 --> 01:55:53.560
Yeah. And my family yells at me when I stomp

01:55:53.560 --> 01:55:55.720
the gas. I tell my kids, I'm like, you want to

01:55:55.720 --> 01:55:57.159
feel it? You want to feel it? Like, do it, do

01:55:57.159 --> 01:55:59.859
it, do it. My wife's like, don't do it. Boom.

01:56:00.039 --> 01:56:02.979
Whoa. Yeah. And even if I just do it on the highway

01:56:02.979 --> 01:56:04.479
for a couple of seconds, it's very exciting.

01:56:04.800 --> 01:56:06.340
Yeah. It's very fun. It's like having a roller

01:56:06.340 --> 01:56:08.920
coaster on tap. It really is like a roller coaster

01:56:08.920 --> 01:56:10.939
on tap. Yeah. Without the loop -de -loops. But

01:56:10.939 --> 01:56:14.319
the pinning to your seat, it seems like you're

01:56:14.319 --> 01:56:16.199
not supposed to be able to experience that from

01:56:16.199 --> 01:56:20.439
some sort of a consumer vehicle that a regular

01:56:20.439 --> 01:56:23.239
person could buy if you have the money. It seems

01:56:23.239 --> 01:56:27.039
too crazy. And then the idea that this Roadster

01:56:27.039 --> 01:56:31.260
is a half of a second faster than that. Yeah.

01:56:31.260 --> 01:56:34.819
That's madness. Well, with the Roadster, we're

01:56:34.819 --> 01:56:36.119
going to do some things that are kind of unfair.

01:56:36.819 --> 01:56:40.680
So we're going to take some things from kind

01:56:40.680 --> 01:56:44.380
of like Rocket World and put them on a car. Oh,

01:56:44.819 --> 01:56:47.779
I've read about that. Explain that. Well, like

01:56:47.779 --> 01:56:49.340
I said, we can't do the product unveil right

01:56:49.340 --> 01:56:52.300
here, but it's going to do some things that are

01:56:52.300 --> 01:56:57.460
unfair. Unfair. When we do the unveil of the

01:56:57.460 --> 01:57:00.699
Roadster. Let me just say that anyone who's been

01:57:00.699 --> 01:57:04.300
waiting, they won't be sorry. They won't be sorry.

01:57:04.539 --> 01:57:07.460
Oh, sure. Well, anything that goes 0 to 60, what

01:57:07.460 --> 01:57:10.000
is it, 1 .9? Is that the 0 to 60? That's the

01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:13.619
base model. What's the top of the food chain

01:57:13.619 --> 01:57:17.180
model? Okay, okay. Faster than that. Let's just

01:57:17.180 --> 01:57:19.560
say faster than that. That seems so crazy to

01:57:19.560 --> 01:57:22.850
me. Now, what was it like when the dude threw

01:57:22.850 --> 01:57:26.310
the steel balls at the window and they were supposed

01:57:26.310 --> 01:57:30.930
to not break and it broke? Well, yeah. I mean,

01:57:30.949 --> 01:57:35.949
at least you know that our demos are authentic.

01:57:37.350 --> 01:57:39.949
So I was not expecting that. And then I think

01:57:39.949 --> 01:57:44.550
I muttered under my breath. You didn't get mad,

01:57:44.630 --> 01:57:50.729
though. No. You didn't Steve Jobs it. No, I definitely

01:57:50.729 --> 01:57:54.189
swore, but I didn't think the mic would pick

01:57:54.189 --> 01:58:00.050
it up, but it did. And so, like, we practiced

01:58:00.050 --> 01:58:04.449
this, you know, behind the scenes. At Tesla,

01:58:04.449 --> 01:58:07.810
we don't do, like, tons of practice for our demos

01:58:07.810 --> 01:58:11.510
because we're working on the cars. Like, you

01:58:11.510 --> 01:58:15.109
know, we're building. new technologies and improving

01:58:15.109 --> 01:58:17.729
the fundamental product. So we're not spending,

01:58:17.909 --> 01:58:20.810
like, doing, like, hundreds of, you know, practice

01:58:20.810 --> 01:58:22.369
things or anything like that. We don't have time

01:58:22.369 --> 01:58:28.170
for that. But just hours before the demo, both

01:58:28.170 --> 01:58:31.470
Franz, you know, is the head of design, and I

01:58:31.470 --> 01:58:34.229
were in the studio throwing steel balls at the

01:58:34.229 --> 01:58:36.630
window and it was bouncing right off. I'm like,

01:58:36.729 --> 01:58:38.909
okay, this seems pretty good. Seems like we got

01:58:38.909 --> 01:58:43.060
it. Okay. And then we think what happened was

01:58:43.060 --> 01:58:50.000
that when Franz hit the door with the sledgehammer,

01:58:50.140 --> 01:58:55.199
you know, so like this is like exoskeleton, you

01:58:55.199 --> 01:58:57.500
know, high strength hardened steel. You can literally

01:58:57.500 --> 01:59:00.979
take wind up with a sledgehammer, you know, full

01:59:00.979 --> 01:59:04.819
on double handed sledgehammer and hit the door

01:59:04.819 --> 01:59:08.899
and there's not even a dent. It's cool. But we

01:59:08.899 --> 01:59:11.220
think that that cracked the corner of the glass

01:59:11.220 --> 01:59:16.680
at the bottom. And then once you crack the corner

01:59:16.680 --> 01:59:19.020
of the glass, then you're just game over. So

01:59:19.020 --> 01:59:23.640
then when you threw the ball, that's what cracked

01:59:23.640 --> 01:59:25.000
the glass. But it didn't go through, though.

01:59:25.140 --> 01:59:26.460
It didn't go through. That's true. It didn't

01:59:26.460 --> 01:59:27.899
go through. That's true. It didn't shatter the

01:59:27.899 --> 01:59:29.359
whole thing like a regular window would either,

01:59:29.399 --> 01:59:32.560
which would just dissolve, right? So in hindsight,

01:59:32.800 --> 01:59:35.039
the ball should have been first, sledgehammer

01:59:35.039 --> 01:59:37.800
second. Yeah. You live, you learn. Yeah, exactly.

01:59:38.909 --> 01:59:41.329
Listen, man, we've taken up a lot of your time.

01:59:41.409 --> 01:59:44.390
You had a child recently. It's amazing that you

01:59:44.390 --> 01:59:45.770
had the time to come down here, and I really

01:59:45.770 --> 01:59:47.630
appreciate that. I appreciate everything you

01:59:47.630 --> 01:59:51.289
do, man. I'm glad you're out there, and I really

01:59:51.289 --> 01:59:53.630
appreciate you coming down here and sharing your

01:59:53.630 --> 01:59:55.069
perspective. Well, I think you've got a great

01:59:55.069 --> 01:59:56.649
show. Thanks for having me on. Thank you. My

01:59:56.649 --> 01:59:59.010
pleasure. My pleasure. Elon Musk, ladies and

01:59:59.010 --> 02:00:03.109
gentlemen, good night. All right, that should

02:00:03.109 --> 02:00:07.390
get a little play. That was great.