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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2454. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding mRNA Technology, Public Health Policy, and Institutional Trust in 2026
Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan

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Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by

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night. All day. We were trying to figure out

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how long it's been since you came here. It's

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been somewhere in the neighborhood close to five

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years. Yeah. A lot of water under the bridge.

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Your appearance on this show, boy, did that create

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a lot of problems. Yeah, I didn't expect you

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ever had me on again. I thought maybe Spotify

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was just going to say, hell no. No, you were

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right. Like, this is a victory dance. Like, it

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turned out that all your warnings and all the

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things that you were saying about the problems

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turned out to be true. Well, thanks. And I know

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you've said that on a few shows. Every time you

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do, somebody sends me a clip and sees, hey, Rogan

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said you did the right thing. What was it like

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for you? First of all, you know, they were trying

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to label you a quack and a kook and someone didn't

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know what they were talking about. I don't think

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it worked with everybody. I mean, it worked with

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people that weren't paying attention. But anybody

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that really paid attention to your background

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said, no, this guy's very credible. I mean, don't

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you have like nine patents on mRNA vaccine technology?

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Yeah, on the mRNA. Yeah. And a total of about

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15, I think. Yeah. And you also took the vaccine

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and had a horrible adverse event. A series of

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them. Yeah. Yeah. At the time, it was so early.

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That was when the National Guard was still doing

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it. And that was Moderna. I was embarrassed to

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have these experiences, and I was embarrassed

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when I got COVID in early 2020. You know, looking

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back, there was so much fear, so much anger and

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anxiety and everything wrapped around all of

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this. And in retrospect, it was, you know, it

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was promoted, but it was also very organic. You

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know, it was, you know, looking back, being honest

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about it, it was a frightening time, what was

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happening. And, yeah, I, you know, I had those

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experiences. My doc, who was a cardiologist,

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was like. Why were you so stupid to take this?

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Your doctor said that too. In 2021? Yeah. 2020

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or 2021? It was 2021, 2021. Yeah. I was going

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to kind of a cardiologist that had left traditional

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medical practice at UVA and the associated hospitals.

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And I was going to her for hormone replacement

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therapy. And bioidentical hormone replacement

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therapy. And she was monitoring a lot of things.

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And, yeah, that was her response. Why did you

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do this? Of course, I've had that question a

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thousand times since. You know, why were you

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so stupid? You were the one that should have

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known. And so I have to answer that still. It

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kind of gets a little tiresome. What was your

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perspective on the vaccine before you took it?

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To be honest, I was a little – I was amazed.

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I was amazed that the claims that the problems

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that I encountered when I had been working on

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it had been solved. I didn't see how that could

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be the case, but I knew that a huge amount of

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money had been thrown at it, so it was possible.

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What were the problems? In my hands, it was inflammation

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primarily. It was absolutely not localizable.

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In the monkey models that we tested, it was incredibly

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inflammatory. It didn't give long, prolonged

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levels of expression. It was hard to make. It

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was kind of back then, it was almost a little

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bit of witchcraft. You'd drop, I mean, for me

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as a graduate student when I was doing that,

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it was incredibly scary because it was a couple

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thousand dollars worth of reagents in a little

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tiny tube. And, you know, back in the late 80s,

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that was real money. And it didn't always work,

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the reaction. So, you know, it was a little bit

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of a wing and a prayer. But then as I started

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working with animal models and with the different

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formulations, I could come up with a variety

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of different compounds and formulations that

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work pretty well in cell culture but not so well

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in animals. I spent a lot of time trying to do

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that, optimize that. And what I ended up with

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is just seeing that it really caused, you know,

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I'm sorry to use medical jargon. That's kind

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of where I'm from. So that's the language. No,

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it's probably better if you do. It caused a lot

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of inflammation. You know, white cell infiltrates,

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really aggressive white cell infiltrates in my

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hands in both mice and monkeys. And I'd abandoned

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it as something that just, you know, was. was

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useful in research, particularly in cell culture,

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but I just didn't see it maturing as an efficient

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delivery strategy with low risk, acceptable risk

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in animals. And that also became the experience

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at this company that I had first joined where

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a lot of the original patents were filed, Vycal.

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They abandoned the RNA because they couldn't

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make it. And they turned largely to this strange

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discovery that we had that was a negative control,

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that the RNA alone or DNA alone was actually

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more effective in animal models, mice, for instance,

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than it was to use the... positively charged

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fats. Now people call them lipid nanoplexes,

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lots of fancy words around it. It was just positively

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charged fats of various types that were mixed

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that bind the DNA or the RNA and kind of spontaneously

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assemble. And a lot of work went into trying

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to improve that. We did what we could in the

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90s when I was at Davis to try to advance that

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technology and develop new lipids. And we had

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a number of them get patented and they were marketed

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by ProMeg and others, but could never solve the

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delivery in vivo. But this group up in University

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of British Columbia that had been banging away

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at this kind of related liposome tech for years

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and years, even before I had known anything about

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it, were the ones that kind of came up with the

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magic sauce that is used. essentially by both

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the Moderna and Pfizer products. And that's the

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stuff that we've all been exposed to, those that

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have taken it. So when you were first experimenting,

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you said it couldn't be localized. So meaning

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that in the injection site, it was supposed to

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be there and then your body was supposed to produce

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antibodies because of the injection. Yeah, and

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it goes all over. But it went all over the body.

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Yeah, it does. But the assertion, what they were

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telling you when you got the shot initially was

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that it was not going to leave the injection

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site. Yeah, and I called my colleagues at University

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of British Columbia that I had known back in

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the day as I was grappling with whether or not

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to take the product because I had to travel.

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And as you recall back then, forget international

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travel if you weren't jabbed. Even national travel.

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Yeah. You couldn't get on an airplane. In Canada,

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it was even worse. You couldn't get on a train.

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Yeah, so I called. Peter and had a chat with

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him and he said that they had solved the problems

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of the distribution that now when you injected

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it, it would stay local. It would go to the draining

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lymph nodes. It was much more effective and that

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they didn't have those safety issues anymore.

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So that was one of the reasons why I decided

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to go ahead. Did you ask how they solved that

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problem? Yeah. Yeah. I asked in detail because

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I knew some of the nature of the formulations.

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Again, I don't want to get too technical. What

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was claimed was that the incorporation of polyethylene

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glycol, so this is, you know, you would know

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that as antifreeze. But it's in the liposome

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world, it's long been known as a way to create

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what are known as stealth liposomes. that circulate

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in your body for a long period of time and make

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it so that these particles don't get inactivated

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by extracellular proteins and the liver and stuff

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like that. And so he was using the gentleman

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in particular named Peter Cullis. By the way,

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he's the one that should have got the Nobel Prize

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for these products as far as I'm concerned. and

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got slighted in the pick. But Peter Cullis said

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that they had experimented with a lot of different

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structures of the fat particles, chemical structures.

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So they came up with some that had these properties

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of staying localized and then built the formulations

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in ways that were similar to what I'd done with

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cholesterol and other things, but then also added

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These shorter polyethylene glycol molecules attached

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with a really short organic, you call it fat

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or gasoline -like molecule, that put the peg

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into the liposome particle, but in a way that

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once it got into the body, it would fall off.

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And so this is – some people have the sensation

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as I did with my second jab of you get it and

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then suddenly you feel tingling in the end of

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your fingers or things like that. That may be

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the peg. But it was those advances in the components

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because these are self -assembling particles

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that were used that Peter and his group – Peter

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McCullough? No, Peter Cullis. P -I -E -T -E -R,

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from UBC and his group, built these products

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with in this technology. And that was, they had

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it available, their choice, because they created

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companies for this. I mean, a ton of money must

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have been made because they licensed it non -exclusively

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to BioNTech and Moderna. And that's still kind

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of the core tech that makes this particular category

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of products work. And so this was enough to convince

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you that they had solved that problem? Yeah,

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I took his word at it. I mean, he's an extremely

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experienced, knowledgeable liposome formulation

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expert, quite senior. He's older than me by another

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decade at least and been doing this forever.

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And he asserted that he had solved the problems.

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And I believed him. I needed to travel internationally.

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And also there was this buzz going around at

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the time that if you had long COVID, which at

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the time, if you think back to then, there was

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a whole cloud over even using the words long

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COVID, that the idea that you would have. these

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long -lasting effects from getting the infection

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was controversial and not really accepted, but

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partially promoted. And there was a narrative

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that was, in retrospect, actively promoted that

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if you took the vaccines and if you had this

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symptom of this chronic malaise and loss of stamina,

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I mean, you're a guy that's, it's important to

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you to be physically fit. For me, it's been important

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to be physically fit all my life because I've

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always been a farmer and a carpenter and worked

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with my hands and my body. And I have farm chores.

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I still have farm chores every day. And I couldn't

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do them. I couldn't walk up hills. I just had

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lost my stamina. I'd lost my pulmonary function.

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And it wasn't getting better. And nobody, you

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know, nobody knew anything about this, what was

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causing it, whether it was even real. But I was

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experiencing it. You know, there's a whole cluster

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of people who say there's no virus and there's

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certainly not any long COVID. But I experienced

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it. And so it was promoted that if you took the

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jab and you had this symptom, then it would kick

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your immune system up. You get more of a response

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to the. spike antigen, and that would allow you

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to clear these symptoms of long COVID. That turns

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out now we have data in just fairly recently

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that, in fact, the opposite is true. So this

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idea of long COVID, so you got long COVID from

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the actual infection of COVID -19 before the

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jab. Yeah, I got infected in late, very end of

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February 2020. I was in Boston at a Conference

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on drug discovery, computational drug discovery,

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high -throughput stuff, very high -tech, MIT,

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and staying in a little firehouse that had been

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converted to a hotel right across the street

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from the biotech company that the initial Boston

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outbreak was associated with. And I came home

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sick as a dog. I thought that I had influenza

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B because that was what the narrative was that

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was circulating at the time. And I remember laying

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in bed just feeling sick as hell, hard to breathe.

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And my wife came in. It's just been on the TV.

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COVID is circulating right there in Boston where

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you were. So that was pretty early on, and it

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hit me pretty hard. So that would have been the

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Wuhan 1. And then there was a couple of genetic

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changes that occurred apparently in Boston around

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that time. So how long did this affect you, this

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long COVID? I was sick until I took the jab,

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you know, just not having stamina, just feeling.

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How many months was that? I had never even thought

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about it. Many months. And did you try anything

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else to mitigate those symptoms? Yeah, I did.

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So my whole story, there's a whole bunch of what

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I did back then that never gets discussed, and

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that's okay. But the kickoff was that I got this

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call from Wuhan, I think. It was from Wuhan,

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from this guy that used to be CIA named Michael

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Callahan, who I'd worked with in the past. And

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he told me with a call that there was this virus

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in Wuhan, this coronavirus, that looked like

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it was going to be serious. And I ought to pay

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attention to it, and I ought to get a team wound

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up to try to address this. So what I'd done,

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because this is coming off of what I did in Zika,

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and I'm a vaccinologist at CORE, but developing

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a vaccine in the face of an outbreak. historically,

00:16:26.070 --> 00:16:31.169
has taken a decade. And it just isn't a practical

00:16:31.169 --> 00:16:34.049
way to address an emergent infectious disease

00:16:34.049 --> 00:16:37.830
crisis. And I had become convinced that the best

00:16:37.830 --> 00:16:39.809
way to do that was through repurposed drugs.

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:44.129
So after I get this call, I put the team together,

00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:48.230
building on the technology that I'd been working

00:16:48.230 --> 00:16:52.909
with at USAMRID during Zika, for a rapid identification

00:16:52.909 --> 00:17:00.940
of of repurposed drugs to address a new crisis.

00:17:01.299 --> 00:17:05.140
And this time we'd really taken a computational

00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:09.759
approach. So I used some tech out of UC San Francisco

00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:15.180
to recreate one of the key proteins in SARS -CoV

00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:17.359
-2 based on the sequence that got published from

00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:26.710
Wuhan in January 11th, I think, of 2020. we started

00:17:26.710 --> 00:17:28.769
doing what's called computational docking of

00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:33.250
very, very large virtual libraries using Amazon

00:17:33.250 --> 00:17:37.529
AWS and high -throughput parallel processing

00:17:37.529 --> 00:17:42.210
and came up with a list of compounds and then

00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:45.390
kind of screened those against problems, adverse

00:17:45.390 --> 00:17:48.990
events, that kind of stuff. More coffee. Good.

00:17:49.109 --> 00:17:57.759
I would. Thank you. So I had this list of compounds

00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.920
and then I was sick as a dog. And, you know,

00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.259
what you get trained in if you do clinical research

00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:08.640
is docs don't experiment on themselves. That's

00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.059
like breaking the rules. But I'm lying there

00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:14.500
so sick that I'm just like, what the hell? What

00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:15.940
do I got to lose? I'm probably going to die.

00:18:17.019 --> 00:18:20.099
At that point, I'd spent a lot of time already

00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:22.819
looking into the virus and what it was causing

00:18:22.819 --> 00:18:24.700
and what people were saying it was causing. And

00:18:24.700 --> 00:18:27.839
how old were you at the time? Let's see. I'm

00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:34.200
66 now. So you were in a high -risk group. Yeah,

00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.359
for sure. And I was obese. I don't know if you

00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.619
noticed, but I've dropped about 40 to 50 pounds

00:18:38.619 --> 00:18:44.950
since we last met. So I started taking some of

00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:48.609
those compounds. And one of them was this drug

00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:51.410
that is normally taken for stomach acid called

00:18:51.410 --> 00:18:56.910
famotidine. And I got an immediate response with

00:18:56.910 --> 00:19:02.250
that. And so I also tried isoquercetin. That

00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:05.049
didn't seem to make so much of an impact on me.

00:19:05.309 --> 00:19:08.940
But I experimented on myself. And the famotidine

00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:13.599
at higher doses now has been verified to be helpful.

00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:16.200
And it was one of the first things out of the

00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.380
box that people started taking, even prophylactically,

00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.880
before we knew about ivermectin and other things.

00:19:23.019 --> 00:19:25.059
And then that went on. I mean, there's a whole

00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:27.539
thread here we could go on for an hour about

00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:30.460
what was done with the repurposed drugs. I was

00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:32.279
working closely with the Defense Heart Reduction

00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:39.799
Agency. I managed to capture a few hundred million

00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:44.359
dollars and direct that towards drug repurposing,

00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:49.980
adaptive clinical trials, et cetera. And the

00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:54.099
thing that I zoomed in on through a collaboration

00:19:54.099 --> 00:20:01.339
with a doc up in Minnesota was the combination

00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:05.059
of famotidine, another anti -inflammatory called

00:20:05.059 --> 00:20:08.940
Celecoxib, And then the thing that really kicked

00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:11.880
it in high gear was the forbidden horse medicine,

00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:18.740
ivermectin. And I managed to, working with DOD,

00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:24.500
got over $100 million, set up a contract. It

00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:28.039
got managed by SAIC. And we were going to go

00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:31.960
after that using a very cutting -edge clinical

00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:39.650
trial design. And remember, this is the DOD.

00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:45.069
We submitted initial drug applications for using

00:20:45.069 --> 00:20:50.049
this combination of licensed drugs, well -known

00:20:50.049 --> 00:20:55.329
licensed drugs. And the FDA just dug in again

00:20:55.329 --> 00:20:58.990
and again, rejected the application. So long,

00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:01.910
what they said was we were going to have to do

00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:06.170
cell culture tests to demonstrate the antiviral

00:21:06.170 --> 00:21:08.470
activity of ivermectin before they would allow

00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:12.990
us to proceed. And so in the end, the DOD caved

00:21:12.990 --> 00:21:16.009
and they dropped the ivermectin component and

00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:19.009
proceeded with the famonidine and celecoxib,

00:21:19.009 --> 00:21:22.269
which showed some effect. Why were they so hesitant?

00:21:22.549 --> 00:21:27.099
What was the resistance? Your guess is as good

00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:29.519
as mine. People think that I have visibility

00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.940
into the FDA. And, yeah, I've met with them and

00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:34.440
I have a background in regulatory affairs. But

00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.160
the policy decisions that were made during COVID

00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:41.920
and still to this day are perplexing. But particularly

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.339
ivermectin. Oh, it was like a high sin. They

00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:53.180
deployed. what do we want to call it, propaganda,

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.500
psychological warfare, nudge, everything, just

00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:58.740
like they did after you and I had our little

00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:03.960
discussion. It was stunning. I mean, like after

00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.740
we had our chat, I don't know if you remember,

00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:11.519
you asked me about, what is this about mass formation

00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:17.079
psychosis? And it, I mean, the term broke the

00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:18.980
internet is overused. It broke the internet.

00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:24.420
The search results on Google went nuts. Well,

00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:27.259
because it perfectly described what was happening.

00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:31.819
Oh, and couldn't be – it couldn't possibly describe

00:22:31.819 --> 00:22:34.480
what was happening even though every single person

00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.500
that heard it knew damn well it did. But it was

00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.839
forbidden. I mean this was forbidden because

00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.259
– For people who didn't hear our first discussion,

00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.440
please explain mass formation psychosis. So since

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.180
then, I've had a shitstorm come at me for using

00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:51.980
the term psychosis coupled with mass formation.

00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:54.839
You can't, you know, the grief, you think you

00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:58.099
got a lot of grief from Spotify and from. Spotify

00:22:58.099 --> 00:23:00.480
was actually great. Yeah. No grief from them.

00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:02.759
It was from like Neil Young and Joni Mitchell

00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.160
and other artists. So you probably, then you

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.400
probably don't know the whole backstory. That's

00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.880
fun to dive into because it relates to the psychological

00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.359
warfare domain that now I've become a pseudo

00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:19.480
-expert on just in trying to understand what

00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.480
the hell I experience and what's going on. So

00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.339
Matthias Desmet, who's a friend at University

00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:29.319
of Ghent in Belgium, who, by the way, has been

00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:32.299
pretty well railroaded in his university now.

00:23:32.670 --> 00:23:35.670
Not allowed to teach his own book on the psychological

00:23:35.670 --> 00:23:39.250
basis of totalitarianism, which is where that

00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.930
book had not come out yet. But it was the mass

00:23:42.930 --> 00:23:46.690
formation hypothesis is what was the kind of

00:23:46.690 --> 00:23:50.009
core of that book that's now published and widely

00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:58.630
regarded. So Matthias is somebody who, as a PhD,

00:23:58.890 --> 00:24:04.000
a full professor. had long taught 20th century

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:10.619
psychology work relating to totalitarianism and

00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.039
thought that goes back to Freud and beyond really

00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.319
all the way back to Plato and the Allegory of

00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.240
the Cave. And in particular, there was a number

00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:23.660
of philosophers in the 20th century associated

00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:28.119
with trying to make sense of Nazi Germany and

00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.180
what had happened to the German people. and really

00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:33.940
all over the world, but particularly relating

00:24:33.940 --> 00:24:37.380
to the Germans. And Matthias had been teaching

00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.599
this on a regular basis. And the way he tells

00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.819
the story, he had an epiphany one day that, oh

00:24:43.819 --> 00:24:46.119
my God, the thing that I've been teaching, I'm

00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.500
living. We're experiencing it. We're experiencing

00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:55.480
this process of the formation of masses. And

00:24:55.480 --> 00:25:00.490
you could call it crowd psychology. So mass formation,

00:25:00.769 --> 00:25:03.349
it's kind of awkward or mass formation psychosis,

00:25:03.410 --> 00:25:06.170
which is what the term was that was used in the

00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:09.230
initial podcast that he gave out. So that's why

00:25:09.230 --> 00:25:12.950
I use that term. But, you know, it's not in the

00:25:12.950 --> 00:25:16.109
– the attack was that it's not in the diagnostics

00:25:16.109 --> 00:25:19.630
and statistical manual for the American Psychiatric

00:25:19.630 --> 00:25:23.630
Association. So therefore it doesn't exist. But,

00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:29.299
you know, all the attacks. The core of it is

00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:34.519
that when people, to make it simple, become disassociated

00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.460
from society and from each other, they become

00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:41.119
extremely vulnerable to manipulation of a variety

00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.099
of different types. And a leader can come into

00:25:45.099 --> 00:25:52.220
that environment and offer, to simplify it, offer

00:25:52.220 --> 00:25:56.500
a solution to their pain. Being isolated, socially

00:25:56.500 --> 00:25:59.059
isolated is associated with pain. We as human

00:25:59.059 --> 00:26:02.480
beings have a need to connect with others. It's

00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:05.640
a fundamental aspect of being human. It's what

00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.960
you do. I mean you connect. That's the essence

00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.799
of the Joe Rogan experience I think. So we need

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:16.660
to connect with others and in certain situations

00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:20.210
where people are threatened. And in particular,

00:26:20.349 --> 00:26:23.170
in the modern era, where we have all of these

00:26:23.170 --> 00:26:26.769
things that drive us into isolation, most notably

00:26:26.769 --> 00:26:32.769
our electronic tools, we become disassociated

00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:34.670
from our community. And when that happens, we

00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:37.869
have a strong need to become associated with

00:26:37.869 --> 00:26:41.430
community. And a leader can come into that environment

00:26:41.430 --> 00:26:44.970
and basically say, I have the solution to your

00:26:44.970 --> 00:26:50.269
pain. Your psychological pain. And what will

00:26:50.269 --> 00:26:53.769
happen is a strange phenomenon where people will,

00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:57.069
rather than building social networks, let's say

00:26:57.069 --> 00:27:00.250
horizontally to those around them, they'll attach

00:27:00.250 --> 00:27:04.750
to this strong leader. And they'll get fulfillment

00:27:04.750 --> 00:27:09.750
for that need to belong by this attachment to

00:27:09.750 --> 00:27:12.650
that leader and following the edicts of that

00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:16.740
leader. And this leads to this phenomena that

00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:19.980
gives rise, you know, enables totalitarianism,

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.359
but gives rise to this whole cluster of things

00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:29.920
that Matthias described that, you know, he uses

00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.420
the term mass formation. In a way, that's kind

00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:37.039
of an odd artifact of translation, I guess, from

00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.819
the Dutch. It's an easier way to think of it

00:27:40.819 --> 00:27:50.170
is a crowd formation. And in his examination

00:27:50.170 --> 00:27:54.549
of the history of what happened in Nazi Germany

00:27:54.549 --> 00:27:58.730
where things – people really went crazy. I mean

00:27:58.730 --> 00:28:02.849
mothers were turning their children in. Children

00:28:02.849 --> 00:28:06.849
were being executed on – consequent to mother's

00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.910
testimony, which is really strange when you think

00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:14.609
about it just in a fundamental way. You know,

00:28:14.609 --> 00:28:20.150
we had all of this dear leader kind of stuff,

00:28:20.269 --> 00:28:27.990
the linkage of the self and the soul to this

00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:31.890
central figure and deriving a sense of identity

00:28:31.890 --> 00:28:44.640
and belonging from that that went on. are still

00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.880
caught up in a lot of that. That's why the German

00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:54.000
laws. And so that's the short version. When we

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.380
spoke before, I gave a much more technical, precise

00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:04.880
definition of Matthias' core thesis. But this...

00:29:06.940 --> 00:29:10.059
Once this happens, then people become very, very

00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:14.940
easily manipulated through propaganda and a variety

00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.259
of techniques that now I have a better comprehension

00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:20.359
of. I mean then I was still just trying to make

00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:22.539
sense just like all of us of what the heck was

00:29:22.539 --> 00:29:36.559
going on. What's with this crazy? Modern psychology

00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.240
has been weaponized. It's been intentionally

00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.640
weaponized in the context of military activities

00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.680
in the domain that, you know, one way to express

00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.740
it, the term is used, kind of term of art in

00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:54.359
military jargon is fifth generation warfare,

00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.539
or you could call it psychological warfare. And

00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:02.359
what distinguishes the present from, say, Sun

00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.079
Tzu and, you know, ancient, Propaganda has always

00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.500
been part of warfare in humans. But we haven't

00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:14.180
had the digital world. We haven't had modern

00:30:14.180 --> 00:30:17.279
psychology. We haven't had nudge technology.

00:30:17.779 --> 00:30:21.819
We haven't had all these tools that allow the

00:30:21.819 --> 00:30:26.119
control of information, thought, perception,

00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:31.480
feelings, emotions that have become commonplace.

00:30:34.009 --> 00:30:39.950
You know, this suite of technology and capabilities

00:30:39.950 --> 00:30:44.309
that we saw deployed in all of us were built

00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:48.890
in a kind of a structured way largely by UK and

00:30:48.890 --> 00:30:53.069
US leadership in the intelligence community as

00:30:53.069 --> 00:30:59.230
a weapon of war to counter these successful insurgencies

00:30:59.230 --> 00:31:02.890
that we keep losing wars over. Vietnam being

00:31:02.890 --> 00:31:04.809
a notable example all the way through Afghanistan.

00:31:05.549 --> 00:31:12.849
And so that's why it was built. But then that

00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:18.130
tech got deployed by governments against their

00:31:18.130 --> 00:31:22.730
own citizens. And this was really launched in

00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:27.799
large part. in the United States by a presidential

00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.380
directive from Barack Obama. I'm not making this

00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:33.099
up. You can look it up. And by the way, the presidential

00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:36.019
directive is still in place that established

00:31:36.019 --> 00:31:40.599
the nudge technology units in the United States.

00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:43.000
They were already operating in the UK. And in

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:44.720
the UK, it's quite advanced. When you look at

00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.880
the UK politics right now and what's going on

00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:48.380
there with all the censorship and everything,

00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:53.089
you know, this is no joke. we're barreling right

00:31:53.089 --> 00:31:57.009
to that end point, same as Canada has. You know,

00:31:57.009 --> 00:32:01.150
we're just a little bit behind. And there they,

00:32:01.269 --> 00:32:03.809
you know, we have the benefit of the First Amendment

00:32:03.809 --> 00:32:08.450
in a constitution and, you know, often on courts,

00:32:08.650 --> 00:32:13.019
but... There, they don't have those obstacles

00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:16.759
and the government believes in the UK that once

00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.420
they have won an election, it's perfectly acceptable

00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:24.019
to deploy this modern psychology and information

00:32:24.019 --> 00:32:27.079
control technology on their own population. And

00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:31.819
I argue that once that Rubicon is crossed, the

00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:34.420
idea of democracy because the tech is so powerful

00:32:34.420 --> 00:32:39.309
becomes completely perverted. And we got a good

00:32:39.309 --> 00:32:42.869
hard taste of that during COVID. What you and

00:32:42.869 --> 00:32:46.069
I experienced, what you experienced with ivermectin,

00:32:46.170 --> 00:32:50.130
what you experienced with, you know, just talking

00:32:50.130 --> 00:32:54.289
about your own experiences. And the blowback

00:32:54.289 --> 00:32:59.650
that happened after we did that little hit is

00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:07.700
a super powerful, clear case study. understanding

00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:13.480
this intersection of modern psychology, warfare

00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:20.039
technology, and the digital world, and algorithmic

00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:26.259
control of information, the creation of digital

00:33:26.259 --> 00:33:30.339
avatars for all of us, the application now in

00:33:30.339 --> 00:33:33.779
the present of artificial intelligence to custom

00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:39.839
craft. messaging that gets fed into our digital

00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:44.380
domains on a regular basis in order to sell us

00:33:44.380 --> 00:33:51.740
whatever, but also to shape how we think and

00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:55.759
to control what information we get access to

00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:59.180
all the time. Just to give an example, my wife,

00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.460
who does a lot of our research for our Substack,

00:34:01.539 --> 00:34:05.460
was talking to me the other day. She just gave

00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:10.519
me a couple examples where stories that were

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.159
in corporate media in the United States that

00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:16.500
weren't listing certain key names or whatever.

00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.519
She said, I just go to the Hindustu Times. Hindustu

00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.719
Times is a great source for all the stuff that

00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:25.579
we're not allowed to see here in the United States.

00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.360
You're now in an environment, in an information

00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:35.739
environment where you cannot rely. on, but we

00:34:35.739 --> 00:34:38.460
all know that. You can't rely on corporate media,

00:34:38.539 --> 00:34:42.079
but the rules, the boundaries that are being

00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.219
set up about information are profound and they're

00:34:46.219 --> 00:34:49.579
completely distorting our ability to process

00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:52.119
what's happening around us. Can I give you the

00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.260
example of what actually happened? You said in

00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:59.519
our example, with the blowback in Spotify, this

00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.909
is documented by a a report out from the House

00:35:04.909 --> 00:35:09.170
about COVID and what happened. And that report

00:35:09.170 --> 00:35:12.349
only carries just through to the early part of

00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:15.030
the vaccines and then it stops. For some reason,

00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:17.210
they didn't really want to go down the road to

00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:21.809
the vaccines. They did talk a lot about the events

00:35:21.809 --> 00:35:27.500
around the, let's say, lab leak hypothesis. Which

00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:29.940
is allowed. You're allowed in D .C. now to talk

00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:32.579
about that. Finally. Yeah. You're still – well

00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:34.860
– It was about four years later you were allowed

00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:38.300
to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what was

00:35:38.300 --> 00:35:45.380
documented was that the trail of events was that

00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:51.079
we had our discussion. That triggered – and this

00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:53.219
is going to sound bizarre, but this is what's

00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:58.090
documented. That triggered Coca -Cola. corporation,

00:35:58.090 --> 00:36:01.730
to complain to the Global Alliance for Responsible

00:36:01.730 --> 00:36:03.289
Media, which is created by the World Economic

00:36:03.289 --> 00:36:06.090
Forum. It is one of these global aggregators

00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:09.889
that controls advertising. The Global Alliance

00:36:09.889 --> 00:36:12.130
for Responsible Media, which, by the way, had

00:36:12.130 --> 00:36:16.210
a dust -up with Elon Musk and lost, and they

00:36:16.210 --> 00:36:19.289
closed it down as a nonprofit. It still exists

00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:23.070
in other ways, but as a structure that could

00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:28.230
be sued by X. disappeared when he stood up against

00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:31.909
it. But Global Alliance for Responsible Media

00:36:31.909 --> 00:36:36.130
had a socket with Google AdSense, by the way.

00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:40.090
So they control the advertising ecosystem, which

00:36:40.090 --> 00:36:45.110
kind of matters to Spotify. So Coca -Cola complains

00:36:45.110 --> 00:36:48.769
to Garm saying, this guy Rogan, you got to shut

00:36:48.769 --> 00:36:51.789
him down, okay? You got to put pressure on Spotify.

00:36:52.590 --> 00:36:56.820
So Spotify... gets the message from Garm that

00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:00.920
we're threatening to pull your advertising. Now,

00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.300
what happens between that and your experience,

00:37:04.539 --> 00:37:07.119
I don't know. It's not transparent to me what

00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:11.679
you experienced. Yeah, we all remember the Laurel

00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.219
Canyon crowd saying they were going to pull their

00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:16.599
catalogs, which they didn't actually own, right?

00:37:16.699 --> 00:37:20.280
That was another thing. And then they went after

00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:27.239
you with this mashup. of inward historic events.

00:37:28.099 --> 00:37:30.400
You know, there was clearly a concerted effort

00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.480
to take out Joe Rogan, much more than to take

00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:38.800
out Robert Malone. And so then the question comes,

00:37:38.900 --> 00:37:44.500
why the heck would Coca -Cola be the socket with

00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:46.340
the Global Alliance for Responsibility, one of

00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:47.679
the biggest advertisers in the world, right?

00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:50.840
Why would Coca -Cola give a hooey about what

00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.530
Joe Rogan said to Robert Malone? on, you know,

00:37:54.550 --> 00:38:00.849
New Year's Eve. Coca -Cola is really tight with

00:38:00.849 --> 00:38:04.869
the CDC. Coca -Cola has funded buildings at the

00:38:04.869 --> 00:38:10.349
CDC. Coca -Cola funds the CDC foundation, foundation

00:38:10.349 --> 00:38:12.789
for the CDC, as does Bill and Melinda Gates,

00:38:12.849 --> 00:38:14.750
has done all the major vaccine manufacturers,

00:38:14.969 --> 00:38:17.630
et cetera, et cetera. The appearance is, I can't

00:38:17.630 --> 00:38:23.659
verify this, that CDC acted. through its ally,

00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:26.800
Coca -Cola. Why are they allies? What's Coca

00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:30.400
-Cola got to do with CDC? The angle there is

00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:36.059
that Coca -Cola wanted the CDC to get WHO to

00:38:36.059 --> 00:38:39.599
not implement restrictions in messaging about

00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:44.940
sugar use. Okay? They didn't want those messages.

00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.559
Remember, this is at the heart of the inverted

00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:51.239
food triangle now. The old food triangle was

00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.940
the product of sugar lobby. I mean, the sugar

00:38:53.940 --> 00:38:55.980
lobby is incredibly powerful because this stuff

00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:59.519
is addictive. I mean, it's like having the cocaine

00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:03.099
lobby, right? Well, and, you know, that's an

00:39:03.099 --> 00:39:05.780
interesting analogy because, of course, the history

00:39:05.780 --> 00:39:11.000
of Coca -Cola. But – so sugar is addictive. The

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.340
CDC – Coca -Cola didn't want the – wanted the

00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:20.059
CDC to influence public health policy. to avoid

00:39:20.059 --> 00:39:25.880
global positions on the risks associated with

00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.280
sugar intake because it would potentially hurt

00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.800
their market share. They're a major globalized

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.380
company. So that little ecosystem that I just

00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.579
described illustrates what we're dealing with

00:39:37.579 --> 00:39:45.179
here and the many ways that all of this... kind

00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:47.980
of influence and messaging and signaling happens

00:39:47.980 --> 00:39:51.699
in this kind of integrated horizontally and vertically

00:39:51.699 --> 00:39:54.320
ecosystem that we live in right now. And one

00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.199
of the things that came out of that, you'll recall,

00:39:56.420 --> 00:40:01.239
was that you were asked, as I recall, you gave

00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:03.900
this, you know, I've had a hostage video. I think

00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:05.860
that was a close to a hostage video from you

00:40:05.860 --> 00:40:08.500
back in the day when you were saying, this is

00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:11.500
what I'm going to do. It was like out on your

00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:14.820
porch or something. I was sitting around a campfire

00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:17.239
in Maui quite literally when somebody said, oh,

00:40:17.340 --> 00:40:21.360
did you just see this from Rogan? And a matter

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.159
of fact, I was sitting around Gavin DeBecker's

00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:25.539
campfire at that time, somebody that you know.

00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:31.019
And so the compromise was that there would be

00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:34.500
a little trailer put at the bottom of that episode.

00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:36.519
And by the way, you probably know that episode

00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:40.429
for a long time became very hard to find. It

00:40:40.429 --> 00:40:43.210
was basically blacklisted from the search engines,

00:40:43.329 --> 00:40:46.809
et cetera, et cetera. But it carries, and I think

00:40:46.809 --> 00:40:48.710
it still does, that little banner that says,

00:40:48.710 --> 00:40:50.289
you know, you should go to the CDC if you want

00:40:50.289 --> 00:40:53.190
the true, true about COVID. And you can still

00:40:53.190 --> 00:40:56.670
find those kinds of banners popping up all the

00:40:56.670 --> 00:41:00.469
time on YouTube. If you talk about vaccines or

00:41:00.469 --> 00:41:03.699
COVID vaccines, that will get... If you pass

00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:06.420
the filters, if YouTube will allow that to still

00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:09.699
be up because you didn't say something, whatever

00:41:09.699 --> 00:41:13.460
it is, then you'll get the little banner. OK,

00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.659
that banner is pushed out by the nudge units

00:41:16.659 --> 00:41:21.880
at the CDC. OK, that is nudge technology. It

00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:25.900
is all around us all the time. And it's basically

00:41:25.900 --> 00:41:31.280
still. public policy consequent to the old Obama

00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:33.380
presidential directive that still hasn't been

00:41:33.380 --> 00:41:36.340
rescinded. You know, I love President Trump.

00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:39.139
I think he's doing amazing things. I think he's

00:41:39.139 --> 00:41:42.400
amazingly brave. I just mentioned our friend

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.800
Gavin DeBecker referred to Trump the other day

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.920
when I saw Gavin in Maui as a once in 500 year

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:54.139
leader. And that's not nothing coming from Gavin.

00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:58.679
And so I'm a big supporter, but the president

00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:03.159
has still left in place this mechanism that exists

00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:08.280
that directs the federal government to use nudge

00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:11.760
technology and related what I assert is psychological

00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.460
warfare technology on the American populace.

00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:20.039
Right. This is from back in, what was it, 2015

00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.559
or something like that? Yeah, it's quite early.

00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:26.269
And then you had his – you had Obama's subsequent

00:42:26.269 --> 00:42:29.989
like the notorious speech at Hoover at Stanford

00:42:29.989 --> 00:42:32.750
where he talks about in order to preserve democracy,

00:42:33.090 --> 00:42:34.869
we're going to have – basically he says we're

00:42:34.869 --> 00:42:37.929
going to have to have censorship in order to

00:42:37.929 --> 00:42:40.889
preserve democracy or whatever democracy is.

00:42:40.989 --> 00:42:42.469
For people that don't know what we're talking

00:42:42.469 --> 00:42:44.940
about, we're relating to the Smith month. The

00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:47.920
Smith -Munt – everybody focuses on Smith -Munt.

00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:52.119
But as I examined Smith -Munt and we did an essay

00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.719
on this in the Substack like three years ago

00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:58.559
because that was the kind of the narrative that

00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.000
was coming out in let's say our side of alternative

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.199
media. And in my examination, Smith -Munt's impact

00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:09.480
is a lot more limited. It has to do with Voice

00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:11.840
of America and some of those things. The broad

00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.699
impact wasn't … quite, in my opinion, what was

00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:19.579
believed to be of enabling propaganda domestically.

00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:24.300
More specifically, there is a presidential directive

00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:28.320
that nudged technology, that established a nudge

00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.869
office. That nudge technology shall be used.

00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:33.789
What do they call it? They don't call it a nudge

00:43:33.789 --> 00:43:37.369
office, right? I don't know. They've gone through

00:43:37.369 --> 00:43:39.369
various iterations, and I'm sorry I don't have

00:43:39.369 --> 00:43:41.929
the latest version. And it's kind of become decentralized.

00:43:41.929 --> 00:43:44.469
It was called the Social and Behavioral Science

00:43:44.469 --> 00:43:47.309
Team. Wikipedia says that that was stopped in

00:43:47.309 --> 00:43:50.130
2017 but continued under the Trump administration

00:43:50.130 --> 00:43:55.690
under, sorry, the General Services Administration's

00:43:55.690 --> 00:43:58.710
Office of Evaluation Science. There we go. Yeah.

00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:02.239
Boy. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of become – like

00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:04.420
I said, it's been pushed out into a lot of the

00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:08.659
agencies. They don't use that lexicon because

00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:11.260
then it's easy to find them. Right. There's other

00:44:11.260 --> 00:44:15.400
euphemisms they use to describe those kinds of

00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:18.300
activities, but it's become normalized. The weaponization

00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:22.909
of propaganda has become normalized. Overall,

00:44:23.590 --> 00:44:26.750
behavioral interventions or nudges like the ones

00:44:26.750 --> 00:44:29.250
implemented by OES have been found to be effective

00:44:29.250 --> 00:44:31.869
in recent psychological science article. Researchers

00:44:31.869 --> 00:44:34.230
identified several policy areas of interest,

00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:37.070
example, health care. Here we go, 2015 is when

00:44:37.070 --> 00:44:39.130
it was implemented. So 2015. Executive order.

00:44:39.170 --> 00:44:41.670
President Obama signs an executive order requiring

00:44:41.670 --> 00:44:44.690
federal agencies to incorporate behavioral insights

00:44:44.690 --> 00:44:48.010
into their evaluation efforts. That's a nice

00:44:48.010 --> 00:44:50.309
way of saying the use of propaganda on the American

00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:53.960
people. Yeah. OK. And so this has kind of become

00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.900
– thank you so much for pulling that up. That's

00:44:56.900 --> 00:45:03.639
super helpful. So this is – like I said, if I

00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:05.980
can illustrate, I was on a Great Britain News

00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:11.260
broadcast about four years ago at the time when

00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:13.980
they would – there was a window time where they

00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:17.079
would have me on but it was sketchy and GB News

00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:20.900
was the only one that would do it. But the rules

00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:24.199
were then that if you were going to have somebody

00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:26.099
that was speaking against the government narrative,

00:45:26.260 --> 00:45:28.199
then you had to have somebody representing the

00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:30.159
government's interests in the same broadcast.

00:45:30.699 --> 00:45:34.840
So that's implemented by basically the UK has

00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:38.920
an active censorship organization that controls

00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:43.559
news media. And so I'm on with this guy, Great

00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.659
Britain News, pinstripe, bow tie, you know, it

00:45:46.659 --> 00:45:51.500
just reeks. And I'm talking about psychological

00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:55.480
warfare and the 77th Brigade, which is part of

00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:58.539
the British Army, which is their psychological

00:45:58.539 --> 00:46:01.860
warfare unit. It's very open that that's the

00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:08.579
case, as is the existence of a civilian branch

00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:12.239
that they set up and paid people to do social

00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:16.260
media in opposition of counter narratives that

00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:19.489
the government didn't approve of. I mean now

00:46:19.489 --> 00:46:21.769
they just – under Starmer, they just censor you

00:46:21.769 --> 00:46:25.849
and send you to jail. They just cut out the middleman.

00:46:26.150 --> 00:46:29.670
But back then, they were still kind of buying

00:46:29.670 --> 00:46:33.550
civilians. And so I'm talking about this. And

00:46:33.550 --> 00:46:38.110
that's – the guy says, yeah, but here in the

00:46:38.110 --> 00:46:41.849
UK, our belief is that if the government wins

00:46:41.849 --> 00:46:43.809
the election, they have the right to govern.

00:46:44.490 --> 00:46:47.730
And that right to govern includes our ability

00:46:47.730 --> 00:46:50.650
to use this type of technology and we believe

00:46:50.650 --> 00:46:53.570
that it's justified to do so. And that – when

00:46:53.570 --> 00:46:56.170
that conversation happened, frankly, I hadn't

00:46:56.170 --> 00:46:58.849
– we hadn't launched the book yet, Cywar, which

00:46:58.849 --> 00:47:03.510
is our most recent publication. And it just kind

00:47:03.510 --> 00:47:06.289
of all coalesced in my mind that, oh my god,

00:47:06.409 --> 00:47:10.039
what all these things – Matthias' teaching about

00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:12.960
mass formation, what I saw, what I experienced

00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.920
with you, what I experienced with the concerted

00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.820
attacks of the media. And then subsequently it's

00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:22.380
been validated by this congressional report that

00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:25.139
talks about, for instance, the juror ticket system.

00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:28.199
Juror tickets are what – it's a system that all

00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:32.480
the software companies use to track glitches

00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.300
and complaints and stuff like that. Well, the

00:47:35.300 --> 00:47:36.840
government had their own juror ticket system

00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:44.320
set up. to log information about activities of

00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:47.019
persons that they wanted to have censored and

00:47:47.019 --> 00:47:49.760
suppressed. And they would build these juror

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.340
tickets with information. And so one of the things

00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:54.159
that's out on the congressional report was that

00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:56.079
I actually had a juror ticket. I was surprised

00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.500
that this is the case or not surprised in retrospect.

00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:04.579
And my personal sins were that I was listed as

00:48:04.579 --> 00:48:07.889
an anti -vaxxer and a conservative. Even though

00:48:07.889 --> 00:48:10.690
you're a vaccinologist and a conservative. That's

00:48:10.690 --> 00:48:13.210
interesting. And a conservative. Exactly right.

00:48:13.389 --> 00:48:15.530
I mean, the stuff that's coming out. That's wild.

00:48:15.630 --> 00:48:20.070
It's fascinating to query things like Grok, even

00:48:20.070 --> 00:48:29.369
Grok, about certain subjects. And you will find

00:48:29.369 --> 00:48:32.710
where they have algorithmically built firewalls.

00:48:33.510 --> 00:48:38.739
And you can. approach them and detect them because

00:48:38.739 --> 00:48:44.760
it will act dumb. It will lock up seemingly.

00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:47.800
It won't give you that answer. Or it will talk

00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:50.460
around the issue, et cetera, et cetera. You can

00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:52.960
identify these things that have been built in

00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:56.239
algorithmically. And of course, then we had all

00:48:56.239 --> 00:49:00.559
of the disclosures, the Zuckerberg, oh, I'm so

00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.800
sorry, apology tour that happened, remember?

00:49:04.670 --> 00:49:07.630
Basically, he got outed by Congress and the rest

00:49:07.630 --> 00:49:10.409
of the tech bros. And, of course, the thing that

00:49:10.409 --> 00:49:13.650
catalyzed all of that was that Elon decided to

00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:18.210
pony up a good chunk of change and buy Twitter.

00:49:18.570 --> 00:49:21.690
Which I think is one of the most impactful decisions

00:49:21.690 --> 00:49:25.210
that any American citizen has ever made. Amazing.

00:49:25.349 --> 00:49:27.690
If he didn't do that, I think we would be really

00:49:27.690 --> 00:49:31.000
screwed. There's – how can you debate that? How

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:32.380
can you debate it when you look at the Twitter

00:49:32.380 --> 00:49:34.280
files and you find out how much the government

00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.900
was involved in censoring accurate information

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:40.659
from legitimate professors, esteemed researchers,

00:49:41.059 --> 00:49:42.539
anybody who didn't go along with the official

00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:46.519
narrative? It's all coming out now in spades

00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.780
and we're dealing now – the lovely thing about

00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:54.920
all of this. I mean let's try to – it is morning

00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:57.920
in America in my opinion. I mean, a lot of people

00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:01.659
get very dark and there's a darkness to the times.

00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:06.059
But there's, you know, not to push the metaphor

00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:12.340
too far, but there is new light coming in. And

00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:15.860
the fact that we can now see this and we recognize

00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:19.280
that you and I are of a similar generation. I

00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.760
mean, one of my earliest memories was the assassination

00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.929
of the president. And all of the propaganda around

00:50:25.929 --> 00:50:29.050
that, the propaganda around Vietnam War, ever

00:50:29.050 --> 00:50:32.610
since, we've just been swimming in information

00:50:32.610 --> 00:50:35.070
control that's gotten increasingly sophisticated.

00:50:35.630 --> 00:50:41.250
And fortunately, as Americans, we also kind of

00:50:41.250 --> 00:50:44.190
have become more and more immune to marketing

00:50:44.190 --> 00:50:47.010
and propaganda over time because we've been living

00:50:47.010 --> 00:50:49.989
with it, trying to discern what is real and what

00:50:49.989 --> 00:50:54.199
is... you know false again this is if it's a

00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:56.199
core part of what you do for a living i think

00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:59.039
is is just try to you know have conversations

00:50:59.039 --> 00:51:01.019
to be able to get to the bottom of the bullshit

00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:07.179
but um that we've we've been swimming in it and

00:51:07.179 --> 00:51:12.199
now we can see it we can see the the structures

00:51:13.300 --> 00:51:17.860
The power of artificial intelligence and influence

00:51:17.860 --> 00:51:19.820
mapping and all the things that are going on

00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:22.000
in the internet right now that are the cutting

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.679
-edge technology, they're scary because they

00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:28.500
could be weaponized against us. But they're also

00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:32.760
super cool because we can now see those relationships.

00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:36.360
If you want an example of that, look at the threads

00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:41.800
that are coming out on X illuminating the… networks

00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:45.239
of affiliation associated with this latest Epstein

00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:48.059
file release. Just mind -blowing. Mind -blowing.

00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:53.159
And it is just like, you know, we can sit here

00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:55.239
and bitch and whine saying, oh, they didn't release

00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.880
that, blah, blah, blah. This is redacted. All

00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:04.840
that's true. But still, the impact of that information,

00:52:05.219 --> 00:52:09.329
we're still... getting to the bottom of it. It's

00:52:09.329 --> 00:52:11.630
completely changed most people's narrative of

00:52:11.630 --> 00:52:14.489
what happened. Like we had this sort of vague

00:52:14.489 --> 00:52:17.409
understanding, you know, but when you see in

00:52:17.409 --> 00:52:21.170
the email, like clear evidence that they're talking

00:52:21.170 --> 00:52:25.829
about children. In pretty obscene ways. Horrifying

00:52:25.829 --> 00:52:28.409
ways. So that was the thing that like, even when

00:52:28.409 --> 00:52:30.630
I talked to Mike Benz about that, he was sort

00:52:30.630 --> 00:52:33.699
of incredulous about that. I don't think they

00:52:33.699 --> 00:52:35.599
would use children. It just doesn't make any

00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.000
sense if they got caught. But it just seems like

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:42.199
we were— If Mike Benz was incredulous, that's

00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.159
pretty big. Well, I just don't think we really

00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:48.760
knew until we saw those files come out. And then

00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:51.199
you go, oh, well, there's no denying it now.

00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:53.800
My position on it has completely shifted. I thought—

00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:57.599
There's probably some really sick people that

00:52:57.599 --> 00:52:59.480
have an appetite for that, but I hadn't seen

00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:01.980
any real evidence for it until these files. And

00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.679
now I'm like, oh, this is demonic. This is clearly

00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:10.920
demonic. OK, so thank you for saying that. I'm

00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:13.860
somebody who was raised a Christian and went

00:53:13.860 --> 00:53:16.800
to Bible school and that kind of stuff as a kid

00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:22.239
and youth groups. And then growing up in Central

00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:25.559
Coast, California, let's say. Beard in different

00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:32.320
ways. But the experiences that we've encountered

00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:37.360
over the last half a dozen years, it's hard to

00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.059
come up with a language to express what we're

00:53:41.059 --> 00:53:45.599
observing in the world other than the language

00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:49.750
of theology. Well, demonic by action. Whether

00:53:49.750 --> 00:53:52.449
or not demons exist, if they did exist, that

00:53:52.449 --> 00:53:54.230
is how they would behave. They would prey on

00:53:54.230 --> 00:53:56.710
children and torture children. And there was

00:53:56.710 --> 00:54:00.730
the one where there was a suggestion when a child

00:54:00.730 --> 00:54:03.409
was praying to Jesus that, like, there was a

00:54:03.409 --> 00:54:05.510
joke that someone should dress up like Jesus.

00:54:06.809 --> 00:54:10.750
Did you see that one, Jamie? No, I'm not watching

00:54:10.750 --> 00:54:13.489
this stuff. I don't even want to. People send

00:54:13.489 --> 00:54:16.389
it to me, and I go, okay. Because I'm, for the

00:54:16.389 --> 00:54:19.130
most part, off social media. But every now and

00:54:19.130 --> 00:54:20.570
then someone will send me something that I have

00:54:20.570 --> 00:54:23.489
to look at. I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah. And these

00:54:23.489 --> 00:54:27.130
are emails back and forth. There's one of them

00:54:27.130 --> 00:54:30.269
where Epstein says, I enjoyed the torture video.

00:54:31.929 --> 00:54:35.530
There's these references to pizza, a lot of references

00:54:35.530 --> 00:54:39.570
to pizza that are 100 % some kind of a code.

00:54:39.750 --> 00:54:41.809
Yeah. And then it brings you back to Pizzagate.

00:54:41.929 --> 00:54:45.389
Yeah. Which was widely dismissed. Yeah. Everybody

00:54:45.389 --> 00:54:48.449
was like, oh, this is a bunch of kooks. Here

00:54:48.449 --> 00:54:52.829
it is. She said she felt God's presence next

00:54:52.829 --> 00:54:55.349
to her when she was in bed. She knows that Jesus

00:54:55.349 --> 00:54:59.929
watches over her and he helped save her life.

00:55:00.150 --> 00:55:04.710
And then he writes, whoops. And then in response,

00:55:04.949 --> 00:55:07.409
Jeffrey Epstein says, you should dress up as

00:55:07.409 --> 00:55:14.750
him when you see her. It is dark. You should

00:55:14.750 --> 00:55:18.269
dress up like Jesus when you see her. What the

00:55:18.269 --> 00:55:22.610
fuck? Well, look at the line. You're talking

00:55:22.610 --> 00:55:24.590
about a little kid that's praying to Jesus? Look

00:55:24.590 --> 00:55:28.710
at the line above it. How am I supposed to interpret

00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:33.909
I'm coming trick? The O -H Jesus, I'm coming

00:55:33.909 --> 00:55:42.610
trick. It's just the whole thing. But so we see

00:55:42.610 --> 00:55:47.829
this darkness. It involves. Leaders in academe,

00:55:47.989 --> 00:55:54.710
in science, in industry, in politics. And it

00:55:54.710 --> 00:56:00.269
just – I remember a point in this arc of the

00:56:00.269 --> 00:56:03.849
last six years where a film crew came onto my

00:56:03.849 --> 00:56:08.010
farm and wanted to shoot some segments. And they

00:56:08.010 --> 00:56:10.530
were talking this – and frankly, I thought it

00:56:10.530 --> 00:56:15.579
was crazy talk. I kind of smiled and – I tried

00:56:15.579 --> 00:56:22.039
to be civil and nice, not contradict them, about

00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:31.739
the New World Order. And then along comes – then

00:56:31.739 --> 00:56:34.199
my wife one day says, hey, you ought to look

00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:36.800
at this book from Klaus Schwab. It's called The

00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:42.579
New World Order. Like what? I mean he was just

00:56:42.579 --> 00:56:45.679
saying it out loud. Yeah. I mean the World Economic

00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:49.380
Forum had those ads where they were saying you

00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:51.800
will own nothing and you will be happy. Yeah.

00:56:52.420 --> 00:56:55.599
And it goes back to the current king of England

00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.219
was the guy that kind of launched that. He was

00:56:58.219 --> 00:57:00.239
the first one to be really talking about that

00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.260
you can – you can use your favorite AI and track

00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:07.539
it down yourself. I prefer not to use Google

00:57:07.539 --> 00:57:12.800
these days to try to find stuff. But it – we

00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:15.860
see – Vertical after vertical after vertical

00:57:15.860 --> 00:57:19.900
after vertical where information has been crafted

00:57:19.900 --> 00:57:27.219
and manipulated and the same tools of delegitimization,

00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:36.510
of promotion of these messages. that you are

00:57:36.510 --> 00:57:40.949
a conspiracy theorist or that you are controlled

00:57:40.949 --> 00:57:43.269
opposition is another favorite one. A lot of

00:57:43.269 --> 00:57:46.010
this was pioneered in the 60s by the FBI against

00:57:46.010 --> 00:57:48.130
the various protest movements. And you can go

00:57:48.130 --> 00:57:56.789
back and track that. The narrative of being a

00:57:56.789 --> 00:58:01.909
collaborator surreptitiously is called bad jacketing.

00:58:02.700 --> 00:58:08.079
And it has its own language and protocols for

00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:11.500
how to do this to people, to divide movements.

00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:16.559
We're in this – I mean in a way, it's kind of

00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:22.119
a glorious moment where we're having a huge amount

00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:28.800
of social pressures coming together in this moment

00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.380
in time that you and I happen to live in. How

00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:35.460
fantastic is that? To be at a point in time where

00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:39.420
there is so much change, there's so much social

00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:42.679
interaction and pressure and competition between

00:58:42.679 --> 00:58:46.440
these different philosophies and we're swimming

00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:50.579
in it. As somebody who writes on a daily basis

00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:52.840
these essays on Substack because that's how I

00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.059
make my living now because I can't do what I

00:58:55.059 --> 00:59:01.030
used to do. You're a kid in a candy shop. There's

00:59:01.030 --> 00:59:04.969
so much corruption. There's so much falsehood

00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:10.250
being promoted. There's so much of this manipulation

00:59:10.250 --> 00:59:15.869
of reality. And so if you're in the business

00:59:15.869 --> 00:59:18.809
of trying to help people to make sense out of

00:59:18.809 --> 00:59:20.630
that, which is kind of what I do now for a living,

00:59:20.849 --> 00:59:25.599
it's— I wake up every morning. I get the feedback,

00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:27.300
how do you come up with all these ideas? I'm

00:59:27.300 --> 00:59:30.159
like, how do you not? All you got to do is keep

00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:32.940
your eyes open. Yeah, it's not hard to search

00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:35.840
anymore. So you talked about ivermectin. I mean,

00:59:35.860 --> 00:59:40.079
the ivermectin story is still ongoing. There

00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:43.059
was an announcement the other day from HHS that

00:59:43.059 --> 00:59:46.460
they are launching new initiatives to investigate

00:59:46.460 --> 00:59:49.599
the use of ivermectin in cancer. And there was

00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:53.920
immediate blowback. along the lines of oncologists

00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:57.639
are outraged. You know, the narrative is Bobby,

00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:00.300
you know, not saying this explicitly, but basically

01:00:00.300 --> 01:00:03.739
Bobby Kennedy is at it once again promoting falsehoods

01:00:03.739 --> 01:00:06.039
and conspiracy theories. And it's going to, you

01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.579
know, we're all going to die because scientists

01:00:09.579 --> 01:00:12.800
are going to investigate the use of ivermectin

01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:17.099
and other drugs for cancer. So this is the core

01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:18.940
question. And this is one of the things that

01:00:18.940 --> 01:00:23.309
puzzled me to no end. I understood that they

01:00:23.309 --> 01:00:27.210
were upset that I had gotten better without the

01:00:27.210 --> 01:00:30.230
use of the vaccine, that I was a popular person,

01:00:30.389 --> 01:00:33.409
that I was a famous person, and I made a video

01:00:33.409 --> 01:00:36.730
about a canceled show. Dave Chappelle and I were

01:00:36.730 --> 01:00:40.530
supposed to do a show, and I made that video

01:00:40.530 --> 01:00:42.010
to let everyone know that I couldn't do the show

01:00:42.010 --> 01:00:45.090
because I had COVID. I had no idea it was going

01:00:45.090 --> 01:00:49.360
to be even controversial. I listed a bunch of

01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:51.360
things that I took. And the shit hit the fan.

01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:54.599
I talked about IV vitamins. Yeah. I talked about

01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.519
monoclonal antibodies. I talked about - Which

01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:00.380
were allowed. Prednisone. Yeah. All these things

01:01:00.380 --> 01:01:02.599
that I talked about. Z -Pak. I talked about all

01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:04.840
these different things that I took. There was

01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:06.659
no mention of any of those things. There was

01:01:06.659 --> 01:01:10.519
only ivermectin. And that's what really puzzled

01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:13.440
me. I was like, this is fascinating. Because

01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:15.829
- I listed a bunch of different things, but there

01:01:15.829 --> 01:01:17.789
was no demonization of monoclonal antibodies,

01:01:18.190 --> 01:01:21.130
but they did make them much harder to get and

01:01:21.130 --> 01:01:25.369
eventually pulled them. I have a friend, and

01:01:25.369 --> 01:01:29.190
his friend was in the hospital, and they wouldn't

01:01:29.190 --> 01:01:31.730
administer monoclonal antibodies once he got

01:01:31.730 --> 01:01:33.909
into the hospital. They wouldn't allow him to

01:01:33.909 --> 01:01:35.809
have them. What went on in the hospital is a

01:01:35.809 --> 01:01:40.309
whole other thing. But that's crazy. So the why?

01:01:40.570 --> 01:01:45.820
The why, that one medication. Two threads that

01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:50.219
I can pull on at all is that ivermectin is a

01:01:50.219 --> 01:01:53.079
miracle drug. I mean, Nobel Prize, right? Right.

01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:56.099
We don't understand completely how it works.

01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.619
In this case, it doesn't seem to be working as

01:01:58.619 --> 01:02:00.599
an antiviral. It seems to be working as an immune

01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:06.059
stimulant, pro -inflammatory or pro -immune response

01:02:06.059 --> 01:02:10.269
in some way that's subtle. Because it has this

01:02:10.269 --> 01:02:12.809
broad spectrum of activity against things that

01:02:12.809 --> 01:02:15.590
have an immune response component and controlling.

01:02:16.210 --> 01:02:19.510
But it's off patent. They don't understand it.

01:02:19.550 --> 01:02:25.190
It's off patent. And the response is as if it

01:02:25.190 --> 01:02:29.550
represents a significant threat to some business

01:02:29.550 --> 01:02:32.349
interests. It's hard to discern that. And you

01:02:32.349 --> 01:02:36.739
mentioned ZPAC. That's another fascinating one.

01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:38.920
And to say that it was only ivermectin, ivermectin

01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:40.380
was the most prominent, but they were actually

01:02:40.380 --> 01:02:46.820
effective in shutting down the Z -Pak, the use

01:02:46.820 --> 01:02:49.840
of hydroxychloroquine. And hydroxychloroquine

01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:52.340
has a fascinating story. When you mention Z -Pak,

01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.519
you're talking about Zev Zelenko. And Zev was

01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:57.699
the one that wrote the letter to the president

01:02:57.699 --> 01:03:01.579
saying, hey, here's this data and this information

01:03:01.579 --> 01:03:07.460
about this drug. That is off patent. We have

01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:13.739
a huge portfolio of experience in using it. Millions

01:03:13.739 --> 01:03:16.119
and millions of doses. It's safe in pregnancy.

01:03:17.619 --> 01:03:21.079
What's not to like here? And the story of that

01:03:21.079 --> 01:03:24.539
is a fascinating microcosm because it goes back

01:03:24.539 --> 01:03:28.699
to Ralph Baric. Ralph Baric had published that

01:03:28.699 --> 01:03:32.820
back years ago. You know, he's kind of the guru

01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:35.900
of coronaviruses, and a good case can be made

01:03:35.900 --> 01:03:38.659
that he had his fingers all over the engineering

01:03:38.659 --> 01:03:43.539
of this particular virus. So he had published

01:03:43.539 --> 01:03:48.340
that this drug was effective against coronaviruses.

01:03:49.260 --> 01:03:55.780
And Zev Zelenko, who's passed away now, got engaged

01:03:55.780 --> 01:03:58.699
in trying to find some way to help his patients

01:03:58.699 --> 01:04:05.340
in New York. with recovering from COVID and treating

01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:08.519
COVID. And he went back, did a deep dive into

01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:13.119
Barrick's work, pulled out this drug, a drug

01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:16.199
that had been recommended, wrote to the president

01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:18.659
about it. He got clinical experience with it.

01:04:19.579 --> 01:04:24.480
And, you know, caveat, Mickey Willis is doing

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:30.860
a bio on Zev now. And I'm involved in that. So

01:04:30.860 --> 01:04:35.719
conflict of interest. But he was the one that

01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:38.599
pulled it out, sent the letter to the president

01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:43.460
with his clinical experience. The president tasked

01:04:43.460 --> 01:04:48.139
Peter Navarro with sourcing the drug. And Peter,

01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:52.059
an economist, went to town. I remember the company

01:04:52.059 --> 01:04:53.860
I was working with, Alchem at the time, getting

01:04:53.860 --> 01:04:56.320
a call from Peter. Can you come up with some

01:04:56.320 --> 01:04:58.199
way to make more of this drug here domestically?

01:04:58.699 --> 01:05:00.619
We want to source it so we have enough doses

01:05:00.619 --> 01:05:04.079
for everybody. And then I think it was Lancet

01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:07.760
published this paper that had totally made up

01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.920
data that trashed the drug, said that it's toxic,

01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:14.960
doesn't work, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:18.900
was all fake. They pulled the paper when it became

01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:21.139
revealed that it was based on nonexistent data,

01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:24.280
that it was more propaganda. published in one

01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:25.900
of the top medical journals in the United States.

01:05:25.940 --> 01:05:28.179
But by that time, it was completely crushed.

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:31.719
So they didn't have to go after Z -Stack. They'd

01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:34.699
already killed Z -Stack. Ivermectin, though,

01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:37.460
that was a new threat. And one of the reasons

01:05:37.460 --> 01:05:41.699
why it was a threat was there was a meta -analysis

01:05:41.699 --> 01:05:44.880
that had been done at the Cochrane. So the Cochrane

01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.739
Institute in the UK is like, you know, the Holy

01:05:49.739 --> 01:05:55.550
Grail for analysis of drugs. in biologics and

01:05:55.550 --> 01:05:58.409
this process of meta -analysis. They kind of

01:05:58.409 --> 01:06:02.769
wrote the rules for how to do it. And they had

01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:05.550
done an analysis that showed that ivermectin

01:06:05.550 --> 01:06:10.530
was quite effective. And then something happened.

01:06:11.010 --> 01:06:17.210
And there was some influence exerted. And suddenly

01:06:17.210 --> 01:06:21.630
that meta -analysis got quenched. It got squashed.

01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:27.039
There were two investigators that were involved

01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:31.119
in building that. One kind of went underground

01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:34.840
and got a big grant and carried on as an academic.

01:06:35.260 --> 01:06:38.039
The other one got so pissed off that she created

01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:40.559
this organization called the World Council for

01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:45.119
Health. That's Tess Laurie. And she really objected

01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.900
to what happened. But ivermectin, you know, there

01:06:48.900 --> 01:06:50.880
was a signal there. There was a clear signal

01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:53.349
there. There was data supporting that signal.

01:06:53.449 --> 01:06:58.050
And then something happened to cause that meta

01:06:58.050 --> 01:07:01.650
-analysis to be restructured. And certain studies

01:07:01.650 --> 01:07:03.550
that were showing how effective it was to be

01:07:03.550 --> 01:07:06.989
thrown out. And then the suppression of the data

01:07:06.989 --> 01:07:11.909
coming out of India. You remember that? And Uttar

01:07:11.909 --> 01:07:17.670
Pradesh. And I guess it's like the cat was out

01:07:17.670 --> 01:07:21.219
of the bag. And they had trouble putting it back

01:07:21.219 --> 01:07:25.739
in. So they just, my sense is, they turned up

01:07:25.739 --> 01:07:29.480
the amplitude on the propaganda and the censorship

01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:33.139
in order to try to overcome this. And I'm pretty

01:07:33.139 --> 01:07:36.719
sure, remember, who was it that held the original

01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:42.179
patent? Merck. Now, I was involved as an observer

01:07:42.179 --> 01:07:47.539
on behalf of DITRA. to the active trials that

01:07:47.539 --> 01:07:50.360
were going on under the foundation for NIH, which

01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:53.480
is sponsored in a significant way by Merck, and

01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:55.400
which is now headed up by the former head of

01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:59.239
Merck Vaccines, Julie Gerberding. Bobby can't

01:07:59.239 --> 01:08:03.300
get her out. It's the rules. They were running

01:08:03.300 --> 01:08:05.000
these clinical trials, including the clinical

01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:08.719
trial that essentially by tweaking the dosing,

01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:11.440
et cetera, made it so that they came up with

01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.679
a result suggesting that ivermectin is not effective.

01:08:15.519 --> 01:08:18.319
There was a whole lot of manipulation in the

01:08:18.319 --> 01:08:22.460
why part. Still, the best explanation I've heard

01:08:22.460 --> 01:08:29.699
is that it had a lot to do with... The risk that

01:08:29.699 --> 01:08:33.319
if there was an effective countermeasure, then

01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:38.300
the utilization of the PREP Act and the emergency

01:08:38.300 --> 01:08:47.140
countermeasures to process to enable fast tracking

01:08:47.140 --> 01:08:52.619
of these vaccines using this new technology would

01:08:52.619 --> 01:08:55.930
no longer be valid. Because those are the rules,

01:08:56.050 --> 01:08:58.250
is if there's an existing countermeasure, then

01:08:58.250 --> 01:09:03.569
you can't implement those clauses. So it was

01:09:03.569 --> 01:09:06.510
all about emergency use authorization. I don't

01:09:06.510 --> 01:09:08.949
know that that's the case. It is. The only thing

01:09:08.949 --> 01:09:10.369
that makes sense when you see how much profit

01:09:10.369 --> 01:09:14.010
they made. Which was enormous. Enormous. So it

01:09:14.010 --> 01:09:17.270
was effective. And all that propaganda, regardless

01:09:17.270 --> 01:09:19.569
of how much exposed them and exposed their methods,

01:09:19.810 --> 01:09:24.939
they made hundreds of billions of dollars. Well,

01:09:25.260 --> 01:09:29.539
and that – the ugliest part of all of this, I

01:09:29.539 --> 01:09:32.319
mean people – the big, big picture when I talk

01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:36.359
to people that are still kind of on the fence

01:09:36.359 --> 01:09:38.460
trying to make sense out of it. There's still

01:09:38.460 --> 01:09:41.899
a lot of those folks out there. The thing that

01:09:41.899 --> 01:09:46.479
kind of gets into their brain is the greatest

01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:51.060
upward transfer of wealth in modern history occurred

01:09:51.060 --> 01:09:55.579
during COVID. It wasn't just the vaccines. It

01:09:55.579 --> 01:09:58.800
was the whole enterprise. With the lockdowns.

01:09:59.479 --> 01:10:02.920
Lockdowns, what was done to small businesses,

01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:08.399
what was done to the economy, the stimulus packages.

01:10:08.619 --> 01:10:10.779
They're still digging out of all that fraud.

01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:21.100
In retrospect, for average folks. that are just

01:10:21.100 --> 01:10:23.840
trying to put food on the table and pay their

01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:29.819
rent, to look at, in retrospect, what was quite

01:10:29.819 --> 01:10:33.060
literally done to them. The middle class was

01:10:33.060 --> 01:10:39.720
hollowed out on hyperspeed. So yeah, I'm still

01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:43.500
pissed off about this. You should be. The thing

01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:46.380
is, not enough people are and so many people

01:10:46.380 --> 01:10:48.979
let it go. And part of the reason why not enough

01:10:48.979 --> 01:10:52.199
people are pissed off about it is because they

01:10:52.199 --> 01:10:55.899
took the vaccine and they want to justify their

01:10:55.899 --> 01:10:59.020
decision. And you will talk to a lot of people

01:10:59.020 --> 01:11:01.939
that make this blanket claim the vaccine saved

01:11:01.939 --> 01:11:03.899
millions of lives. And they'll just say that.

01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:06.920
Yeah, because that's the propaganda along with

01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:09.659
safe and effective. That was a promoted narrative.

01:11:09.699 --> 01:11:12.460
And that was, by the way, the rationale given

01:11:12.460 --> 01:11:15.560
by the Nobel Prize Committee to award to Curico

01:11:15.560 --> 01:11:19.500
and Weissman was that these products, which they

01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:22.350
had – the thesis is they had been – playing the

01:11:22.350 --> 01:11:24.689
central role. I disagree. I think Peter Cullis

01:11:24.689 --> 01:11:26.109
is the one that should have got it. If you're

01:11:26.109 --> 01:11:30.189
going to give it for these vaccines, it was Peter

01:11:30.189 --> 01:11:32.510
Cullis and his team at UBC that really was the

01:11:32.510 --> 01:11:35.689
enabling tech. But be that as it may, the decision's

01:11:35.689 --> 01:11:40.829
made. And the committee said, basically, you

01:11:40.829 --> 01:11:44.029
know, millions of lives have been saved. And

01:11:44.029 --> 01:11:48.590
by giving this Nobel at this time, we hope that

01:11:48.590 --> 01:11:50.770
it will promote more people to accept this product.

01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:54.779
That was explicitly the logic given at the time.

01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:58.720
And that reflects what was really a thrust vector.

01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:03.439
Joe, I've – what a bizarre world since we met.

01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:09.899
And so I've been sucked into – To call it the

01:12:09.899 --> 01:12:12.500
center right of Europe is a little bit of a misnomer

01:12:12.500 --> 01:12:14.159
because they're all socialists as far as I'm

01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.180
concerned, Giorgio Maloney and everybody else.

01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:19.960
But compared to the far left, they're labeled

01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:23.560
as neo -Nazis. But I've been traveling to Europe,

01:12:23.619 --> 01:12:26.680
interacting with these people. You think it was

01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:31.220
bad for us. The European Union and the UK and

01:12:31.220 --> 01:12:33.600
the Canada were an order of magnitude worse.

01:12:36.409 --> 01:12:39.670
We should be so grateful that we live in this

01:12:39.670 --> 01:12:43.989
country at this time and that we still have something

01:12:43.989 --> 01:12:46.130
like a functioning constitution with the First

01:12:46.130 --> 01:12:49.409
and Second Amendment. Look at the poor suckers

01:12:49.409 --> 01:12:53.689
in Australia and New Zealand. You know, remind

01:12:53.689 --> 01:12:56.770
yourself, it could be a heck of a lot worse here.

01:12:56.909 --> 01:13:00.050
And it has been a heck of a lot worse in Europe.

01:13:00.289 --> 01:13:05.789
I've got buddies in Romania in the leading. alternative

01:13:05.789 --> 01:13:08.670
party, you know, calling it center right, let's

01:13:08.670 --> 01:13:14.170
say, but that, you know, recently, I think it

01:13:14.170 --> 01:13:16.250
was the vice president came out and said specifically

01:13:16.250 --> 01:13:19.930
that that last election was stolen. It was in

01:13:19.930 --> 01:13:22.850
Romania, Georgescu. They tried to put in jail.

01:13:22.949 --> 01:13:25.869
And the logic was that I think it was TikTok

01:13:25.869 --> 01:13:29.050
supporting his campaign had been sponsored by

01:13:29.050 --> 01:13:32.270
the Russians. It was the same game that they

01:13:32.270 --> 01:13:36.020
played against Trump. of Russian collusion. They

01:13:36.020 --> 01:13:39.939
played that same book in Romania successfully.

01:13:40.380 --> 01:13:43.119
But in the European Union environment under the

01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:48.079
European Council, they ain't got a constitution.

01:13:48.659 --> 01:13:53.199
And they can just step right in and throw you

01:13:53.199 --> 01:13:56.220
in jail, inactivate your candidacy, do whatever

01:13:56.220 --> 01:14:00.020
if you represent a populist threat to the existing

01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:04.260
structure. We talk about the deep state. It's

01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:07.279
– it doesn't – you know, yeah, it's a problem

01:14:07.279 --> 01:14:13.180
here. But – and Mike Benz I defer to as a notable

01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:17.140
expert in that space. But it's a lot worse in

01:14:17.140 --> 01:14:21.439
Europe and Australia and Canada and the UK. And

01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:28.560
I think, you know, we're in a perilous time here

01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:31.340
in the United States where, you know, we have

01:14:31.340 --> 01:14:36.340
the midterm coming up. But people like Bobby

01:14:36.340 --> 01:14:40.460
are making progress. And these dissident physicians

01:14:40.460 --> 01:14:45.100
that have risked so many things – and I'm just

01:14:45.100 --> 01:14:48.739
one. I hear people saying, oh, Robert, Robert,

01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:50.819
they've been so mean to you. I'm like, come on,

01:14:50.819 --> 01:14:54.439
guys. You think they've been mean to me? Then

01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:57.880
look at what they did to Bobby. And then look

01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:02.869
– I don't have a nick out of my ear. Look at

01:15:02.869 --> 01:15:06.470
what they did to Trump. What they did to me is

01:15:06.470 --> 01:15:09.729
just – I'm nobody compared to that and they're

01:15:09.729 --> 01:15:12.130
willing to deploy that kind of capability against

01:15:12.130 --> 01:15:16.149
me. Think about what's really going on at the

01:15:16.149 --> 01:15:19.350
higher levels where the big games are being played.

01:15:19.949 --> 01:15:25.869
And at least we can see it now. At least we have

01:15:25.869 --> 01:15:29.460
– for those of us that have our eyes open. We

01:15:29.460 --> 01:15:33.899
have some ability to be aware. But what I've

01:15:33.899 --> 01:15:37.039
spent the last two years mostly trying to convince

01:15:37.039 --> 01:15:40.239
people about, I hardly ever talk about RNA. I

01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:44.479
sit—oh, Joe, I got to give a caveat. Forgive

01:15:44.479 --> 01:15:49.239
me. The opinions I'm expressing here are my own

01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:51.939
and not those of the U .S. government, the CDC,

01:15:52.159 --> 01:15:56.680
or the ACIP. There, I said it. Okay. But, you

01:15:56.680 --> 01:16:01.939
know, we're— In a moment where we're seeing this,

01:16:02.020 --> 01:16:06.560
how the levers, the gears of how all this works.

01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:11.199
Give you an example. Tomorrow, Friday, February

01:16:11.199 --> 01:16:16.159
13th. What could possibly go wrong? Hopefully

01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:18.840
my plane flight out of here works OK and they

01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:21.060
don't have a drone attack or something. Right.

01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:26.840
So tomorrow there's a lawsuit. filed on behalf

01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:30.640
of the American Academy of Pediatrics that seeks

01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:33.859
to shut down the Advisory Committee on Immunization

01:16:33.859 --> 01:16:38.279
Practices and the changes that Bobby's implemented

01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:43.520
there and force all of that to go back to the

01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:46.399
way things were when it was functionally controlled

01:16:46.399 --> 01:16:48.579
by the professional societies and particularly

01:16:48.579 --> 01:16:54.159
the American Academy of Pediatrics. We talk about...

01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:59.840
this propaganda and weaponization and lawfare

01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:02.500
and those things. And we talk about it as if

01:17:02.500 --> 01:17:04.560
it only happened in the last administration.

01:17:05.159 --> 01:17:10.640
It's still ongoing all the time. And it is going

01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:15.680
to go big time if the House turns, which I think

01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:18.159
it probably will. I mean, there's a good chance

01:17:18.159 --> 01:17:21.710
that... They've already drawn up articles of

01:17:21.710 --> 01:17:23.310
impeachment against Secretary Kennedy. They're

01:17:23.310 --> 01:17:24.670
talking about articles of impeachment against

01:17:24.670 --> 01:17:26.989
President Trump. We're about to go into another

01:17:26.989 --> 01:17:35.170
two years of stagnation and functional – what

01:17:35.170 --> 01:17:39.670
do we call it? We can't call it civil war. War

01:17:39.670 --> 01:17:45.250
by other means is where we're heading right now.

01:17:45.329 --> 01:17:51.680
But at this moment – I'm seeing major movement.

01:17:52.020 --> 01:17:55.619
You know, Kennedy is doing great stuff. The president

01:17:55.619 --> 01:17:57.920
is doing great stuff. We're seeing a transformation

01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:03.199
in America's global reach, totally restructuring

01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:06.500
global politics. And on the health side, the

01:18:06.500 --> 01:18:08.760
Make America Healthy Again movement, you know,

01:18:08.779 --> 01:18:11.699
there's some pushback against that and a heck

01:18:11.699 --> 01:18:13.479
of a lot of propaganda being deployed against

01:18:13.479 --> 01:18:17.479
it. Well, it's this old quote that Seems sort

01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:19.899
of abstract for most people most of the time,

01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:22.680
but rings kind of true. But you're finding it

01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:25.579
true more and more. Money is the root of all

01:18:25.579 --> 01:18:30.899
evil. Profound. Simple, but profound. I mean,

01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:35.079
this is the COVID thing with ivermectin and alternative

01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:38.819
medications, off -label medications. Why? Money.

01:18:39.819 --> 01:18:43.909
I think it also has to do with control. Right.

01:18:43.930 --> 01:18:46.729
Which means money. Fair enough. More access to

01:18:46.729 --> 01:18:49.510
money. Yeah. It's money and power in my mind.

01:18:49.630 --> 01:18:52.350
But power – they don't want power without money.

01:18:52.710 --> 01:18:56.189
They want to benefit from that power. I believe

01:18:56.189 --> 01:18:59.109
for the likes of Larry Fink and Bill Gates, I

01:18:59.109 --> 01:19:02.329
mean they can't spend all that they have. Right.

01:19:02.350 --> 01:19:06.369
It's a marker. It's like chips. You're stacking

01:19:06.369 --> 01:19:09.250
up – Exactly. Right. They're scoring in a video

01:19:09.250 --> 01:19:13.979
game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also captured by

01:19:13.979 --> 01:19:18.039
their past actions and constantly trying to obfuscate

01:19:18.039 --> 01:19:20.420
from all the things that they have done in the

01:19:20.420 --> 01:19:22.100
past that could be – like if you just went into

01:19:22.100 --> 01:19:25.420
Bill Gates' stuff that he did in Africa, giving

01:19:25.420 --> 01:19:28.420
children polio with the polio vaccine that was

01:19:28.420 --> 01:19:32.060
from the AP News. Africa and India. Yeah. I mean

01:19:32.060 --> 01:19:36.939
he's kind of banned from India. So I don't get

01:19:36.939 --> 01:19:40.199
it. I don't get where these people live. I'm

01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:43.880
– I'm happy. You know, as far as I'm concerned,

01:19:44.100 --> 01:19:46.680
I could walk away from all this stuff. It's just

01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:49.739
kind of a sense of obligation of what are you

01:19:49.739 --> 01:19:52.600
going to do when you're 66? I have this opportunity

01:19:52.600 --> 01:19:55.939
to impact in a positive way on the world on my

01:19:55.939 --> 01:19:59.039
way out the door. Who wouldn't take it? Well,

01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:01.300
I guess a lot of people wouldn't. But I don't

01:20:01.300 --> 01:20:05.119
have a need to have power. I have. Thank God

01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:09.590
for my Substack subscribers. I have all. All

01:20:09.590 --> 01:20:13.329
that I need. My wife is happy. My horses are

01:20:13.329 --> 01:20:19.590
fed. My farm is paid off. And I have the luxury

01:20:19.590 --> 01:20:24.229
of doing good works. And that's enough. I don't

01:20:24.229 --> 01:20:30.210
get this global power thrust and hunger. Because

01:20:30.210 --> 01:20:31.989
that's not what you do. That's not your thing.

01:20:32.189 --> 01:20:35.470
But if you were a politician or you were some

01:20:35.470 --> 01:20:39.680
megalomaniacal billionaire. sort of business

01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:42.319
character that just wants to dominate and was

01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:44.539
involved in a bunch of antitrust lawsuits in

01:20:44.539 --> 01:20:46.819
the past, that would be what you— Not that we're

01:20:46.819 --> 01:20:48.979
naming any names. Not that we're naming any names

01:20:48.979 --> 01:20:51.279
that bribed off multimedia corporations to the

01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:54.779
tune of $300 -plus million so that they wouldn't

01:20:54.779 --> 01:20:58.500
write bad stories about him. Or owns, you know,

01:20:58.500 --> 01:21:00.079
functionally owns the World Health Organization.

01:21:00.500 --> 01:21:02.960
Right. And a giant chunk of American farmland

01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:06.079
was for a while trying to push that fake meat

01:21:06.079 --> 01:21:08.800
shit on everybody until that dropped off a cliff.

01:21:09.060 --> 01:21:12.119
Yeah. So the business models aren't working out

01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:14.039
so good for the globalists, are they? I think

01:21:14.039 --> 01:21:15.920
a lot of it is because of information that's

01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:18.760
available now. Yeah. And you can't control –

01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:21.739
like one of the things that did happen during

01:21:21.739 --> 01:21:26.140
COVID is these places like CNN, people stopped

01:21:26.140 --> 01:21:28.960
going to for information. They don't believe

01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:31.350
them anymore. There's just too much bullshit

01:21:31.350 --> 01:21:33.369
and no one got in trouble for spreading that

01:21:33.369 --> 01:21:35.869
bullshit. There was no corrections, no redactions,

01:21:35.989 --> 01:21:41.369
no apologies. No acknowledgement. People now

01:21:41.369 --> 01:21:45.069
more than ever in my lifetime mistrust mainstream

01:21:45.069 --> 01:21:47.989
media and polls show that. Polls show that the

01:21:47.989 --> 01:21:49.689
trust of mainstream media is at an all -time

01:21:49.689 --> 01:21:52.199
low. For good reason. They did it to themselves.

01:21:52.539 --> 01:21:54.939
They prostituted themselves out to the pharmaceutical

01:21:54.939 --> 01:21:57.000
drug companies. They had to say what they had

01:21:57.000 --> 01:21:59.279
to say on television. People knew what they were

01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:02.579
saying was incorrect. And now no one trusts them.

01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:07.840
So to this thread, about four years ago, I read

01:22:07.840 --> 01:22:11.590
a report from the Trusted News Initiative. You

01:22:11.590 --> 01:22:14.069
remember the TNI? Yeah. It was launched by the

01:22:14.069 --> 01:22:18.529
BBC to counter Russian disinformation and then

01:22:18.529 --> 01:22:21.409
repurposed to counter vaccine disinformation.

01:22:22.689 --> 01:22:26.329
And I read this report about – I'd gone on your

01:22:26.329 --> 01:22:29.430
show. So I was a little bit of a fan. Forgive

01:22:29.430 --> 01:22:33.590
me. And so I'm reading this report and they're

01:22:33.590 --> 01:22:35.810
talking about threats to the industry because

01:22:35.810 --> 01:22:39.170
TNI is basically another trade organization.

01:22:39.170 --> 01:22:43.250
It's another guild. It's a global major media

01:22:43.250 --> 01:22:46.970
guild. And so they're doing this internal analysis

01:22:46.970 --> 01:22:49.909
and reporting and they're talking about the risk

01:22:49.909 --> 01:22:53.069
factors that they face. And they had a whole

01:22:53.069 --> 01:22:57.470
great big section on Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan represents

01:22:57.470 --> 01:23:05.609
– that was their threat. That was the major threat

01:23:05.609 --> 01:23:08.430
to their business model is you and what you represent.

01:23:09.579 --> 01:23:13.600
You as a metaphor for this new information economy.

01:23:14.180 --> 01:23:18.560
And by God, they called it right. It's it's in

01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:21.319
when I this again, this has been part of my journey

01:23:21.319 --> 01:23:26.920
when I realized what I was experiencing and what

01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:31.159
it meant to come on your show and have that event

01:23:31.159 --> 01:23:35.699
occur. Which, by the way, blew up my subscribers

01:23:35.699 --> 01:23:38.899
on Substack. Thank you so much. I still get a

01:23:38.899 --> 01:23:42.960
wave every year about in the month following.

01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:47.699
So January, I get a big bump in revenue. Well,

01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:50.439
it blew up our subscribers on Spotify, too. During

01:23:50.439 --> 01:23:52.739
the heat of it, we gained in one month, we gained

01:23:52.739 --> 01:23:55.359
two million subscribers. What are we at now,

01:23:55.420 --> 01:24:00.039
Jamie? Oh, yeah, please. What's the Spotify subscribers?

01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:04.449
I know YouTube is over 20. $20 million. What

01:24:04.449 --> 01:24:08.390
is Spotify at? So while he's looking that up,

01:24:08.449 --> 01:24:10.729
I had this bizarre experience. I'm just an old

01:24:10.729 --> 01:24:14.250
gray -haired guy about to have my 47th wedding

01:24:14.250 --> 01:24:16.590
anniversary. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm

01:24:16.590 --> 01:24:21.270
proud of it. I would have 20 -year -olds come

01:24:21.270 --> 01:24:23.529
up in the street and fist bump me. I'm like,

01:24:23.609 --> 01:24:29.159
what the hell? Yeah, well, they don't have a

01:24:29.159 --> 01:24:31.420
representative. I mean, they don't see anyone.

01:24:31.819 --> 01:24:34.699
All males. Yes, males. Those males don't have

01:24:34.699 --> 01:24:37.399
anybody in mainstream news that represents anything

01:24:37.399 --> 01:24:40.800
that resembles them. I mean, I know I'm much

01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:44.859
older than them, but I never went down this path

01:24:44.859 --> 01:24:48.180
of decay and weirdness that a lot of adult males

01:24:48.180 --> 01:24:51.680
go into corporate business and industry, and

01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:54.000
they become something unrecognizable to these

01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:56.270
young men who have freedom in life. And they're

01:24:56.270 --> 01:24:58.010
being suppressed and they're being told that

01:24:58.010 --> 01:25:00.329
they're toxic. That was a singer right there.

01:25:00.489 --> 01:25:03.130
Yeah. Young men that have freedom in life. Yeah.

01:25:03.170 --> 01:25:05.590
And then they compromise. They don't want to

01:25:05.590 --> 01:25:08.210
be what their dad is. They don't want to be what

01:25:08.210 --> 01:25:10.010
their uncle is. They don't want to be these people

01:25:10.010 --> 01:25:11.909
that they work for. They're like, what is this

01:25:11.909 --> 01:25:15.010
fucking bullshit life? I don't want that. I know

01:25:15.010 --> 01:25:17.510
I'm being lied to. I know the news is full of

01:25:17.510 --> 01:25:22.050
shit. And I know that this one guy who is also

01:25:22.050 --> 01:25:26.410
a cage fighting commentator and a comedian. And

01:25:26.410 --> 01:25:31.489
doesn't have to lie. I don't have a boss, really.

01:25:31.710 --> 01:25:34.270
I mean, Spotify promotes the show. They put the

01:25:34.270 --> 01:25:36.810
show out. We're in partnership with them. But

01:25:36.810 --> 01:25:38.869
there's no one telling me what to do, which is

01:25:38.869 --> 01:25:40.890
why you're here right now. Because there's no

01:25:40.890 --> 01:25:44.010
one. I don't have a conversation with no one.

01:25:44.250 --> 01:25:47.970
I literally reach out to my guy and say, hey,

01:25:48.149 --> 01:25:52.939
contact Mr. Malone. And let's get him back on.

01:25:53.020 --> 01:25:59.199
All I know is I got a message through X saying,

01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:02.119
Joe Rogan, do you want to come on? That was actually

01:26:02.119 --> 01:26:05.640
me. That message is me, which I rarely use those

01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:06.840
things, but I was trying to figure out how to

01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:09.220
contact you. So I reached out to you there, and

01:26:09.220 --> 01:26:11.520
then I sent it to my guy, and he takes care of

01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:13.720
it. Like, that's it. There's no one else. There's

01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:16.920
no one involved in all that, which you could

01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:20.010
still be you that way. As soon as you get involved

01:26:20.010 --> 01:26:24.909
in enormous groups of humans and a board, you

01:26:24.909 --> 01:26:27.449
have to sit down at a table with other executives.

01:26:27.470 --> 01:26:30.229
You have to make decisions based on the profitability

01:26:30.229 --> 01:26:33.869
of the company and shareholders and stuff. I

01:26:33.869 --> 01:26:37.670
have none of that. It's a skeleton crew. So as

01:26:37.670 --> 01:26:41.930
I look back, the question, why were you able

01:26:41.930 --> 01:26:46.810
to do this, Malone? Why were you able to, you

01:26:46.810 --> 01:26:50.289
know, oh, you were so brave, Dr. Malone. Robert

01:26:50.289 --> 01:26:53.350
Malone, that name became like a pejorative. It

01:26:53.350 --> 01:26:56.310
became like, oh, yeah, that Malone guy. Yeah,

01:26:56.310 --> 01:26:59.449
it's all weaponized. But then on the other side,

01:26:59.590 --> 01:27:02.590
I tour. I do these rallies and stuff like this.

01:27:02.710 --> 01:27:07.069
And, you know, it really makes my wife nervous.

01:27:10.090 --> 01:27:13.210
Middle -aged women come up to me and they want

01:27:13.210 --> 01:27:17.130
to have selfies. And I get this, oh, Dr. Malone,

01:27:17.229 --> 01:27:18.810
you were so brave. You're such a hero kind of

01:27:18.810 --> 01:27:21.329
stuff, which I frankly find a little embarrassing.

01:27:21.470 --> 01:27:24.510
I mean it's sweet. But, yeah, there's a lot of

01:27:24.510 --> 01:27:29.090
heroes. Why was that? Yeah, yeah, the guys that

01:27:29.090 --> 01:27:35.869
defend the nation. But why was I able to speak?

01:27:36.250 --> 01:27:40.300
I think a big part of it was I had no debt. I

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:43.659
wasn't beholden to anybody. And like you say,

01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:46.979
I'd been about a decade being a consultant, a

01:27:46.979 --> 01:27:49.340
free living consultant. And it had gotten under

01:27:49.340 --> 01:27:51.520
my skin. I've always been independent, you know,

01:27:51.539 --> 01:27:56.779
farmer, carpenter kind of stuff. And that's,

01:27:56.779 --> 01:27:59.760
I guess, been part of my problem is I just don't

01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:04.840
fit in in corporate. I can't suck up to people

01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:07.479
and it's just not in me. Well, it's a very unhealthy

01:28:07.479 --> 01:28:10.979
environment for anybody to get sucked into that

01:28:10.979 --> 01:28:15.699
bizarre group think. It's just – Good word. It's

01:28:15.699 --> 01:28:21.439
what it is, right? Yeah. So this decentralized

01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:26.300
subscriber -based model, the epiphany was – and

01:28:26.300 --> 01:28:30.050
I'm being quite sincere. You know, it was one

01:28:30.050 --> 01:28:31.649
of those moments my wife and I looked at each

01:28:31.649 --> 01:28:32.890
other and we said, what the hell are we going

01:28:32.890 --> 01:28:36.489
to do now? Our consulting business is shot. Nobody

01:28:36.489 --> 01:28:38.510
wants to talk to me. I've been delegitimized.

01:28:38.510 --> 01:28:40.510
They say I don't know what I know. I haven't

01:28:40.510 --> 01:28:43.329
done what I've done. And this has been promoted

01:28:43.329 --> 01:28:47.289
by all the top liberal publications in the world.

01:28:47.649 --> 01:28:54.109
And so I said, OK, Rogan built this thing day

01:28:54.109 --> 01:28:58.819
after day, week after week. for years. He just

01:28:58.819 --> 01:29:01.439
stayed on it and doing it. And we can do that

01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:05.180
too. We can bring that kind of work ethic into

01:29:05.180 --> 01:29:08.119
our world. Steve Kirsch had told me, you ought

01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:10.979
to get on Spotify. And we went, we took it on

01:29:10.979 --> 01:29:14.479
seriously. We've published thousands of essays

01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:17.640
now, almost every day. It's, you know - You mean

01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:20.020
Substack. Substack. What did I say? Substack.

01:29:20.020 --> 01:29:25.039
I apologize. And so we just work at it. Again

01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:27.600
and again and again trying to put out content.

01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:31.359
And we're shadow banned and small roomed on X

01:29:31.359 --> 01:29:36.420
in a serious way. You know, we've got 1 .3 million

01:29:36.420 --> 01:29:39.699
subscribers of which, you know, all the time

01:29:39.699 --> 01:29:42.960
I get feedback, I never see your stuff. Well,

01:29:42.979 --> 01:29:44.840
it's algorithmic, whatever it is. You know, and

01:29:44.840 --> 01:29:47.859
you can ask Grok about Robert Malone and, you

01:29:47.859 --> 01:29:52.859
know, you get back, you know, I'm a controversial

01:29:52.859 --> 01:30:01.189
figure. But, you know, not whining. And so we

01:30:01.189 --> 01:30:04.310
have a lot of subscribers, but we just have this

01:30:04.310 --> 01:30:07.689
core of paid subscribers. And they send in their

01:30:07.689 --> 01:30:12.489
five bucks a month. And it's all we need. And

01:30:12.489 --> 01:30:16.630
it totally sets us free. We can talk about whatever

01:30:16.630 --> 01:30:20.350
we want. And, yeah, now that I'm a pseudo -government

01:30:20.350 --> 01:30:22.590
employee, I'm a special government employee without

01:30:22.590 --> 01:30:25.760
pay. Boy, that's like the worst of both worlds

01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:31.079
because there's – I have – the truth is I have

01:30:31.079 --> 01:30:36.119
guardrails that constrain me in a way that I

01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:38.619
didn't used to be constrained for talking about

01:30:38.619 --> 01:30:43.539
some things. I have to live in this world. I

01:30:43.539 --> 01:30:47.439
interface with the secretary and with the deputy

01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:49.659
chief of staff and other people and now I'm working

01:30:49.659 --> 01:30:54.520
with the State Department more. So, you know,

01:30:54.539 --> 01:30:58.960
I have to be more mindful. What is your function?

01:30:59.619 --> 01:31:02.439
Like what do you do over there? At state or?

01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:04.819
Yeah, both. When you're working for the government,

01:31:04.899 --> 01:31:09.939
like how do they use your services? So the special

01:31:09.939 --> 01:31:13.239
government employee category is a designation

01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:16.420
from the executive branch. It's the one that

01:31:16.420 --> 01:31:19.369
Elon had. I like to say I'm in the same category

01:31:19.369 --> 01:31:23.529
as Elon was, only without all the money. So he

01:31:23.529 --> 01:31:26.810
was an SGE without pay. I'm an SGE without pay.

01:31:27.630 --> 01:31:31.149
And because I serve on the Advisory Committee

01:31:31.149 --> 01:31:34.550
on Immunization Practices of the CDC, which is

01:31:34.550 --> 01:31:37.449
this, they call it, it's a FACA committee, Federal

01:31:37.449 --> 01:31:40.710
Advisory Committee Act, that advises the director

01:31:40.710 --> 01:31:43.710
of the CDC, that's its only job, on vaccine policy.

01:31:45.320 --> 01:31:47.920
So I'm the vice chair, which is largely honorary.

01:31:48.220 --> 01:31:50.399
What that means is that if the chair isn't there,

01:31:50.579 --> 01:31:53.140
I draw the short straw and I have to chair those

01:31:53.140 --> 01:31:55.680
bloody meetings like the last one for hepatitis

01:31:55.680 --> 01:32:01.359
B, birth dose, which was just a slugfest, ugly,

01:32:01.579 --> 01:32:05.100
the worst meeting I've ever had to adjudicate

01:32:05.100 --> 01:32:09.979
my entire life. But for the most part, I sit

01:32:09.979 --> 01:32:12.840
on the subcommittees. I sit on the COVID working

01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:15.579
group subcommittee. I'm not supposed to talk

01:32:15.579 --> 01:32:19.720
about the next meeting. I was told two days ago.

01:32:20.460 --> 01:32:26.420
So that's one of my guardrails. But stay tuned

01:32:26.420 --> 01:32:30.680
for what is going to come down if the AAP lawsuit

01:32:30.680 --> 01:32:33.100
doesn't prevail and we're allowed to actually

01:32:33.100 --> 01:32:37.640
have the meeting. So that's that. I'm also the

01:32:37.640 --> 01:32:40.180
chair of the Influenza Working Group. Stay tuned

01:32:40.180 --> 01:32:46.199
for that. And now I am. So – and I – from time

01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:49.699
to time, the secretary asked me to help him sort

01:32:49.699 --> 01:32:52.600
out some issue. I'll get a phone call. I once

01:32:52.600 --> 01:32:57.380
got a phone call on the Big Island. I did this

01:32:57.380 --> 01:33:02.579
recent series of rallies to try to – to recap

01:33:02.579 --> 01:33:05.239
the whole reason why that we did that first hit

01:33:05.239 --> 01:33:08.840
was to try to publicize the Stop the Mandates

01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:13.520
rally in DC. That was the subtext for that, as

01:33:13.520 --> 01:33:15.460
you recall. And I forgot to even mention it.

01:33:15.479 --> 01:33:17.899
We had to go back in to do another shoot for

01:33:17.899 --> 01:33:20.159
that. Remember? I'm still fighting that same

01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:23.340
battle of trying to stop these mandated vaccines.

01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:26.399
So I'm sitting there in Hawaii. I'm going to

01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:27.859
another one of these rallies. I get a call out

01:33:27.859 --> 01:33:30.579
of the blue from one of Bobby's people. And they

01:33:30.579 --> 01:33:34.159
want some advice about a topic having to do with

01:33:34.159 --> 01:33:36.840
the decision he has to make about spending money

01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:41.390
on another biodefense initiative. So I get that

01:33:41.390 --> 01:33:45.470
kind of stuff. He called me soon after he was

01:33:45.470 --> 01:33:48.489
confirmed to get my opinion about what was going

01:33:48.489 --> 01:33:51.289
on in the chicken industry and all the slaughter

01:33:51.289 --> 01:33:54.270
that was happening for bird flu. And I told him

01:33:54.270 --> 01:33:56.090
this doesn't make sense. It's not good policy.

01:33:56.329 --> 01:33:57.890
There's no way you can get rid of bird flu doing

01:33:57.890 --> 01:34:00.550
this. It's in the wild bird populations. And

01:34:00.550 --> 01:34:02.590
this is just nonsensical what they're doing.

01:34:02.710 --> 01:34:07.289
Why do you think they did that? OK, so that's.

01:34:07.979 --> 01:34:12.460
That's interesting that now we drive into a kind

01:34:12.460 --> 01:34:16.859
of public health and vaccinology. You're asking

01:34:16.859 --> 01:34:19.600
the why. And it's been a longstanding policy.

01:34:19.619 --> 01:34:21.659
They killed millions of chickens, right? They

01:34:21.659 --> 01:34:23.979
do it every time. Every time there's a bird flu.

01:34:24.119 --> 01:34:27.920
Yeah. And any other outbreak. So right now in

01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.119
Spain, I just wrote an essay about this. It was

01:34:30.119 --> 01:34:33.399
maybe the biggest reveal on what's going on in

01:34:33.399 --> 01:34:37.159
Spain right now. There's a Spanish research lab

01:34:37.159 --> 01:34:40.159
that's been collaborating with the USDA that

01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:43.979
is investigating swine fever virus. And they're

01:34:43.979 --> 01:34:45.319
actually doing gain -of -function research on

01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:49.300
swine fever virus. African swine fever virus

01:34:49.300 --> 01:34:54.439
kills pigs like crazy. And already China has

01:34:54.439 --> 01:34:57.239
locked down and will not accept Spanish pork.

01:34:57.420 --> 01:35:01.649
And it is a lab leak. And there was a bunch of

01:35:01.649 --> 01:35:04.630
dead hogs last November around this facility.

01:35:04.890 --> 01:35:08.409
And now it's the Spanish and the European Union

01:35:08.409 --> 01:35:16.310
are blowing a circuit over this because it's

01:35:16.310 --> 01:35:18.609
really compromised the Spanish pork industry.

01:35:18.890 --> 01:35:23.510
So this kind of stuff, when this happens, the

01:35:23.510 --> 01:35:27.310
reaction is we just have to kill all of them.

01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:30.739
We have to kill all the potential carriers. And

01:35:30.739 --> 01:35:36.000
this has been the wisdom, quote, in this kind

01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:44.279
of agrarian animal husbandry world for a long

01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:47.539
time in the context in particular of factory

01:35:47.539 --> 01:35:52.239
farming. So the logic is that if you were to

01:35:52.239 --> 01:35:56.680
vaccinate these birds with a... Leaky vaccine,

01:35:56.979 --> 01:35:59.979
which, you know, COVID was a leaky vaccine. Influenza

01:35:59.979 --> 01:36:02.239
is a leaky vaccine. If you give the birds a leaky

01:36:02.239 --> 01:36:06.000
vaccine, what you'll get out of that is precisely

01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:10.699
vaccine -resistant flu, okay? And so we have

01:36:10.699 --> 01:36:15.869
no choice, has been the logic, but to... You

01:36:15.869 --> 01:36:17.770
know, like the ostriches in Canada. Remember

01:36:17.770 --> 01:36:20.869
that story? That was shocking. There was no logic

01:36:20.869 --> 01:36:24.710
behind that. It's gone. It's become entrenched

01:36:24.710 --> 01:36:27.529
as policy, as kind of this reflexive knee jerk

01:36:27.529 --> 01:36:30.689
thing that if we have an outbreak, what we do

01:36:30.689 --> 01:36:33.510
is we kill because we can't control the virus.

01:36:33.710 --> 01:36:35.890
And the things that we could do to control the

01:36:35.890 --> 01:36:37.770
virus aren't really going to control it. And

01:36:37.770 --> 01:36:39.869
it's actually going to make things worse. Is

01:36:39.869 --> 01:36:44.720
there any logic to that? We can argue at the

01:36:44.720 --> 01:36:46.960
margins. We can argue at the margins. But when

01:36:46.960 --> 01:36:49.079
you got something that – if you had something

01:36:49.079 --> 01:36:53.859
that didn't have a natural reservoir, then you

01:36:53.859 --> 01:36:58.340
can make the case that you could eliminate it

01:36:58.340 --> 01:37:02.100
in that geographic population and keep it from

01:37:02.100 --> 01:37:04.899
spreading outside. But when you have a natural

01:37:04.899 --> 01:37:08.300
reservoir – Explain that. Explain the natural

01:37:08.300 --> 01:37:11.039
reservoir. OK. In the case of avian influenza

01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:21.180
… Waterfowl and migratory birds are amazing vectors

01:37:21.180 --> 01:37:25.159
for carrying and propagating influenza. And influenza

01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:28.779
survives in water for a very long period of time.

01:37:29.100 --> 01:37:33.180
And so you've got ducks and geese traveling north

01:37:33.180 --> 01:37:40.300
to south all over every continent. that are susceptible

01:37:40.300 --> 01:37:43.520
to infection by avian influenza and all the other

01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:46.619
migratory birds. But in particular, the waterfowl,

01:37:46.619 --> 01:37:51.880
galliforms. My wife would wrap me on the head

01:37:51.880 --> 01:37:54.960
if I didn't use the right term. So she's an avian

01:37:54.960 --> 01:38:01.359
specialist. So these birds carry the flu and

01:38:01.359 --> 01:38:04.640
a number of them are... relatively resistant.

01:38:04.819 --> 01:38:07.840
They've been subjected to avian influenza for

01:38:07.840 --> 01:38:12.460
centuries or millennia. And sometimes you'll

01:38:12.460 --> 01:38:15.199
get a variant come out that'll wipe out a whole

01:38:15.199 --> 01:38:18.819
bunch of birds. West Nile virus in crows is a

01:38:18.819 --> 01:38:21.439
great example. And now you have crow populations

01:38:21.439 --> 01:38:23.600
coming back that are resistant to West Nile.

01:38:23.699 --> 01:38:26.199
We haven't gotten rid of West Nile. We've just

01:38:26.199 --> 01:38:29.239
bred more resistant birds. That's kind of, you

01:38:29.239 --> 01:38:30.779
know, that's Brett Weinstein's space, right?

01:38:30.840 --> 01:38:35.930
That's evolution. It's magical. And so if you

01:38:35.930 --> 01:38:40.930
have a natural animal reservoir like the ticks

01:38:40.930 --> 01:38:47.810
and lime and deer, what are you going to do?

01:38:47.850 --> 01:38:51.850
Exterminate all the deer? No, that's not practical.

01:38:52.810 --> 01:38:57.069
Mao tried to exterminate the birds because of

01:38:57.069 --> 01:38:59.960
the thesis that they were – eating up all the

01:38:59.960 --> 01:39:02.960
spare grain and compromising availability of

01:39:02.960 --> 01:39:05.680
food to the populace, right? And what happened?

01:39:06.079 --> 01:39:09.939
Major ecological catastrophe. You can't eliminate

01:39:09.939 --> 01:39:13.760
the birds. You can't go and kill all the waterfowl.

01:39:13.979 --> 01:39:19.000
That would just be ecologically insane. But,

01:39:19.079 --> 01:39:21.899
you know, sometimes we do insane things. And

01:39:21.899 --> 01:39:25.590
in the case of avian influenza, It's there. It's

01:39:25.590 --> 01:39:28.470
endemic. It's in all that migratory waterfowl.

01:39:28.529 --> 01:39:31.590
They poop an amazing amount of influenza. It

01:39:31.590 --> 01:39:33.430
gets in the water supply. The water supply goes

01:39:33.430 --> 01:39:37.149
everywhere. They, you know, small birds are interacting

01:39:37.149 --> 01:39:38.729
with, I don't know if you've ever been around

01:39:38.729 --> 01:39:42.310
a chicken barn or turkey barns. OK, yeah, there's

01:39:42.310 --> 01:39:44.270
chickens and then there's commercial chicken

01:39:44.270 --> 01:39:48.989
production, right? So these operations are like

01:39:48.989 --> 01:39:52.159
petri dishes for bad stuff happening. And the

01:39:52.159 --> 01:39:54.159
only way you can interfere with that, and by

01:39:54.159 --> 01:39:56.439
the way, the Amish are starting to do it, is

01:39:56.439 --> 01:39:59.619
put something in the water supply. And what the

01:39:59.619 --> 01:40:02.460
Amish are using is a compound called hypochlorous

01:40:02.460 --> 01:40:06.380
acid. And it's stopping these things and it's

01:40:06.380 --> 01:40:08.079
stopping the E. coli and a lot of other stuff.

01:40:08.260 --> 01:40:11.819
But that's another problem is, you know, when

01:40:11.819 --> 01:40:16.220
you have the momentum of these large government

01:40:16.220 --> 01:40:20.039
agencies with their consensus about the way things

01:40:20.039 --> 01:40:25.270
are done. You know, there's a saying that the

01:40:25.270 --> 01:40:28.489
only time the FDA ever changes is if somebody

01:40:28.489 --> 01:40:32.989
in a key position retires or passes away. They

01:40:32.989 --> 01:40:36.470
kind of get entrenched in this is how we do things.

01:40:36.630 --> 01:40:39.390
We kill chickens. If we have avian influenza

01:40:39.390 --> 01:40:42.310
come out, we kill chicken barns. And this is

01:40:42.310 --> 01:40:45.970
the beauty of Secretary Kennedy coming in, being

01:40:45.970 --> 01:40:51.229
kind of not invested. in the way things are and

01:40:51.229 --> 01:40:55.010
the way we do things and being willing to ask

01:40:55.010 --> 01:41:00.369
the questions, does this really make sense? That

01:41:00.369 --> 01:41:03.130
has been heresy. It obviously is still heresy

01:41:03.130 --> 01:41:07.770
to do that, to ask those questions, to have the

01:41:07.770 --> 01:41:10.210
president say we need to restructure the vaccine

01:41:10.210 --> 01:41:13.689
schedule. Oh, my God. The sky is falling. Kids

01:41:13.689 --> 01:41:15.569
are going to die left and right. There's going

01:41:15.569 --> 01:41:18.689
to be death on the street because we ended the

01:41:18.689 --> 01:41:23.109
thimerosal in multidose influenza vials. This

01:41:23.109 --> 01:41:26.510
kind of catastrophic thinking. But Kennedy has

01:41:26.510 --> 01:41:30.630
and the president have the courage. to question

01:41:30.630 --> 01:41:33.229
these narratives, these long -held standing beliefs.

01:41:33.369 --> 01:41:36.529
In the case of the bird flu, you know, he called

01:41:36.529 --> 01:41:38.609
me up. I said, Bobby, I don't think this makes

01:41:38.609 --> 01:41:40.550
sense. I think that what we really need to do

01:41:40.550 --> 01:41:43.210
is we need to breed resistant chickens. And the

01:41:43.210 --> 01:41:44.970
way we breed resistant chickens, and by the way,

01:41:44.970 --> 01:41:47.170
we've written about this also in our sub stack,

01:41:47.329 --> 01:41:52.329
there are in the domain of chicken cultivars.

01:41:52.710 --> 01:41:56.090
You have chickens. You know, there are people

01:41:56.090 --> 01:42:01.850
that are just freaks about chickens. But because

01:42:01.850 --> 01:42:04.850
of that, we have this huge repository of different

01:42:04.850 --> 01:42:08.550
cultivars of chickens. We could say they were

01:42:08.550 --> 01:42:10.329
all generated through gain -of -function research,

01:42:10.470 --> 01:42:14.949
the old -school way. And a number of those are

01:42:14.949 --> 01:42:17.350
relatively resistant to bird flu. Well, in a

01:42:17.350 --> 01:42:21.609
logical world, you would have Tysons. Maybe the

01:42:21.609 --> 01:42:23.909
government has to incentivize this. It shouldn't

01:42:23.909 --> 01:42:26.829
have to. You would have Tysons in there saying,

01:42:27.050 --> 01:42:30.510
well, guys, What we need is a bird flu -resistant

01:42:30.510 --> 01:42:34.789
chicken. Let's get on it. And that is essentially

01:42:34.789 --> 01:42:37.550
the position that the secretary took is this

01:42:37.550 --> 01:42:42.909
policy of just extremely aggressive mass culling

01:42:42.909 --> 01:42:46.710
is not producing the outcome that we want. It

01:42:46.710 --> 01:42:48.569
has never produced the outcome that we want.

01:42:48.689 --> 01:42:52.149
It will never eliminate bird flu because it has

01:42:52.149 --> 01:42:54.829
an endemic reservoir. And we've got to think

01:42:54.829 --> 01:42:58.779
different. And now that's starting to percolate

01:42:58.779 --> 01:43:01.420
through the system and there is more research

01:43:01.420 --> 01:43:05.579
into alternative strategies including the possibility

01:43:05.579 --> 01:43:10.840
of various prophylactic interventions in feed

01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:15.000
and in water. And a lot of these chicken houses

01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:17.039
mist. As you recall, they have the misters because

01:43:17.039 --> 01:43:19.020
they've got to control the temperatures. So they

01:43:19.020 --> 01:43:22.000
are set up with misters. And that can also be

01:43:22.000 --> 01:43:25.220
a way to deliver things that are non -toxic,

01:43:25.220 --> 01:43:30.100
like HOCL, that can knock out these viruses and

01:43:30.100 --> 01:43:35.560
E. coli and other things that cause reduced growth

01:43:35.560 --> 01:43:39.840
and loss of weight in chickens, which is the

01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:42.680
metric that... Tyson's and those guys is food

01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:45.479
conversion. That's the metric they all pray to.

01:43:46.659 --> 01:43:49.279
There's different – we can think differently

01:43:49.279 --> 01:43:55.279
and we have been locked into consensus that has

01:43:55.279 --> 01:44:00.159
emerged over decades based on old ways of thinking.

01:44:00.479 --> 01:44:03.380
And the same people are in charge so they don't

01:44:03.380 --> 01:44:07.140
want to change. And they kind of – often kind

01:44:07.140 --> 01:44:09.319
of have these lineages where they're passing

01:44:09.319 --> 01:44:11.399
power on to the people that they've mentored.

01:44:12.500 --> 01:44:15.840
So that's my HHS world. And then the State Department

01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:21.279
world is a new thing that's come in. I'm starting

01:44:21.279 --> 01:44:26.340
to support the group under Secretary Rubio that's

01:44:26.340 --> 01:44:31.439
responsible for the various treaties having to

01:44:31.439 --> 01:44:35.909
do with arms containment. And in particular,

01:44:35.989 --> 01:44:38.409
the bioweapons convention. So this morning, I

01:44:38.409 --> 01:44:43.630
got up early. And, you know, there was—so, honest

01:44:43.630 --> 01:44:46.149
to God, I don't want to pump you up too much.

01:44:46.270 --> 01:44:48.649
I mean, you might get an ego or something. So

01:44:48.649 --> 01:44:51.569
I say to the state, they say, Robert, we want

01:44:51.569 --> 01:44:54.569
you to go to Geneva to give this talk on the

01:44:54.569 --> 01:44:58.189
use of AI for monitoring bioweapons threats.

01:44:58.720 --> 01:45:01.939
because we have no way of monitoring compliance

01:45:01.939 --> 01:45:04.340
with the Bioweapons Convention right now. And

01:45:04.340 --> 01:45:07.140
it's been a historic problem. And the president

01:45:07.140 --> 01:45:12.119
has said that we think that we can apply artificial

01:45:12.119 --> 01:45:16.079
intelligence to this problem set of monitoring

01:45:16.079 --> 01:45:18.460
and verifying compliance with the Bioweapons

01:45:18.460 --> 01:45:21.699
Convention, which is heresy. It's another one

01:45:21.699 --> 01:45:23.119
of these thinking outside of the box things.

01:45:23.720 --> 01:45:26.000
So they say, we want you to go to Geneva and

01:45:26.000 --> 01:45:30.199
give this talk and be the key. keynote. And I

01:45:30.199 --> 01:45:36.060
say, and what's the date? Oh, it's February 12th.

01:45:36.520 --> 01:45:40.840
And I say, I don't talk about this because, you

01:45:40.840 --> 01:45:42.699
know, it's the general thing. You don't tell

01:45:42.699 --> 01:45:44.960
people that you're going to be on Rogan. You

01:45:44.960 --> 01:45:49.239
let Rogan say that when Rogan's ready. And so

01:45:49.239 --> 01:45:51.539
I said, but I'm scheduled for Rogan that day.

01:45:52.140 --> 01:45:55.239
And they're like, oh, Rogan. Well, OK, absolutely.

01:45:55.399 --> 01:45:57.779
You got to go on that one. That's way more important

01:45:57.779 --> 01:46:01.539
than going and speaking at the UN. So the State

01:46:01.539 --> 01:46:03.159
Department thinks you're more important than

01:46:03.159 --> 01:46:05.539
me talking about bioweapons. And they let me

01:46:05.539 --> 01:46:10.619
WebEx it. So that's what happened this morning.

01:46:10.699 --> 01:46:18.449
And it is – so I'm supporting that group. Now

01:46:18.449 --> 01:46:21.550
and maybe increasingly over time and I don't

01:46:21.550 --> 01:46:23.770
know where that goes. So you were talking about

01:46:23.770 --> 01:46:28.430
these pigs that it's a lab leak that's giving

01:46:28.430 --> 01:46:31.729
these pigs. Yeah, in Spain. Is it another gain

01:46:31.729 --> 01:46:36.949
of function laboratory? So this is truly a breaking

01:46:36.949 --> 01:46:41.930
news thing. Our media is not covering it. Shocker.

01:46:41.930 --> 01:46:47.060
Yeah. It is being covered in Europe and particularly

01:46:47.060 --> 01:46:51.020
in Spain. This is a major economic threat because

01:46:51.020 --> 01:46:53.180
they're, I think, the number two pork producer

01:46:53.180 --> 01:46:56.720
in the world. And, you know, in the hogs that

01:46:56.720 --> 01:46:59.399
are feeding on acorns, et cetera, that's a big

01:46:59.399 --> 01:47:06.460
specialty market space. So last November, this

01:47:06.460 --> 01:47:09.819
laboratory that is ostensibly working, this is,

01:47:09.859 --> 01:47:14.760
I mean, it's Wuhan 2 .0. Only the good news is

01:47:14.760 --> 01:47:20.939
that this is not swine flu. People get that confused.

01:47:21.119 --> 01:47:25.100
I'm not talking about swine flu. This is African

01:47:25.100 --> 01:47:28.279
swine fever. It's been around for millennia.

01:47:28.279 --> 01:47:31.180
It's never crossed into humans. It's a very different

01:47:31.180 --> 01:47:35.100
virus. So just make sure we got that clear. So

01:47:35.100 --> 01:47:40.520
this highly lethal African swine fever virus.

01:47:41.859 --> 01:47:47.039
is a threat to the global pork industry. And

01:47:47.039 --> 01:47:52.479
so this laboratory in Spain is cooperating with

01:47:52.479 --> 01:47:56.779
the USDA to try to develop a new vaccine for

01:47:56.779 --> 01:48:02.560
African swine fever. And in doing so, our government,

01:48:02.640 --> 01:48:05.760
once again, was unaware that this even existed.

01:48:06.300 --> 01:48:09.260
There's a cooperative agreement between USDA

01:48:09.260 --> 01:48:15.090
and this laboratory. to engage in, if you read,

01:48:15.229 --> 01:48:16.750
they don't call it gain -of -function research.

01:48:16.970 --> 01:48:20.590
They call it building recombinant viruses and

01:48:20.590 --> 01:48:25.770
experimenting in different virus structures to

01:48:25.770 --> 01:48:29.069
allow them to build a better vaccine. Exactly

01:48:29.069 --> 01:48:34.109
the same logic that was used in Wuhan. Now, then

01:48:34.109 --> 01:48:38.500
last November, so this is ongoing. In this little

01:48:38.500 --> 01:48:41.220
laboratory. And what this relates to, Joe, is

01:48:41.220 --> 01:48:45.319
the idea that is being promoted that for justice

01:48:45.319 --> 01:48:50.020
and equity and sharing, we need to enable there

01:48:50.020 --> 01:48:54.359
being distribution of highly infectious pathogens

01:48:54.359 --> 01:48:57.079
all over the world in separate laboratories so

01:48:57.079 --> 01:49:02.140
that we in the big bad West are not imposing

01:49:02.140 --> 01:49:06.779
and enabling our industries to prey on. Name

01:49:06.779 --> 01:49:12.300
your emerging economy by taking biologic resources

01:49:12.300 --> 01:49:15.760
from them, in other words, new viruses, and using

01:49:15.760 --> 01:49:18.300
them to build stuff. We have to cooperate and

01:49:18.300 --> 01:49:20.180
they have to have access to these reagents. So

01:49:20.180 --> 01:49:23.300
the logic right now that's in play and being

01:49:23.300 --> 01:49:28.359
promoted by the WHO is that we should have high

01:49:28.359 --> 01:49:31.880
pathogen repositories and research programs all

01:49:31.880 --> 01:49:34.569
over the world. decentralized in these emerging

01:49:34.569 --> 01:49:41.489
economy states. Spain is not Germany. So there's

01:49:41.489 --> 01:49:43.989
a Spanish lab. USDA is cooperating with them.

01:49:44.090 --> 01:49:46.630
They're going to build an African swine fever

01:49:46.630 --> 01:49:48.949
virus vaccine. They're doing gain -of -function

01:49:48.949 --> 01:49:53.270
research. And by the way, just like in Wuhan,

01:49:53.449 --> 01:49:57.250
there's some construction going on related to

01:49:57.250 --> 01:50:02.920
that. And then suddenly, And it's an area that

01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:06.220
is very dense in wild hogs. Now, somehow we got

01:50:06.220 --> 01:50:08.920
to get this through our brain. Okay. You don't

01:50:08.920 --> 01:50:13.060
put the facility in a place that's proximal to

01:50:13.060 --> 01:50:14.899
the thing that might get infected if you have

01:50:14.899 --> 01:50:17.260
a lab leak. That ought to be like rule number

01:50:17.260 --> 01:50:20.399
one stamped on everybody's brain. You don't do

01:50:20.399 --> 01:50:22.579
it. Like the Rocky Mountain labs make a lot of

01:50:22.579 --> 01:50:23.979
sense. If you're going to be working with nasty

01:50:23.979 --> 01:50:27.079
stuff and you got to do it, put it somewhere

01:50:27.079 --> 01:50:30.840
obscure, not in Boston, right? So they're doing

01:50:30.840 --> 01:50:33.399
it. They're surrounded by dense wild hog population.

01:50:33.659 --> 01:50:37.000
And suddenly, last November, people detect there

01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:40.220
is wild hogs dead all over around this facility.

01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:43.840
What could possibly have happened? So they start

01:50:43.840 --> 01:50:47.359
investigating. The police have been in. Grab

01:50:47.359 --> 01:50:49.680
the records, grab the digital information, et

01:50:49.680 --> 01:50:54.579
cetera, because the entire Spanish pork industry

01:50:54.579 --> 01:51:01.090
is now compromised. There are trade barriers.

01:51:01.550 --> 01:51:05.470
No more Spanish pork going into China. I advocate

01:51:05.470 --> 01:51:08.069
that President Trump ought to drop the curtain

01:51:08.069 --> 01:51:11.010
right now. Because when I looked at the distribution

01:51:11.010 --> 01:51:13.489
of wild hogs, I mean, you've traveled enough.

01:51:13.569 --> 01:51:17.829
You know how important wild feral hogs are in

01:51:17.829 --> 01:51:24.090
the economy in Italy. The wild hogs are all over

01:51:24.090 --> 01:51:28.270
in Europe. And this place in Catalonia is right

01:51:28.270 --> 01:51:31.539
near the French border. And then like right on

01:51:31.539 --> 01:51:33.439
the other side, a couple hundred miles, is Italy.

01:51:34.239 --> 01:51:39.340
And the band of high -density wild hogs spreads

01:51:39.340 --> 01:51:41.840
like that up through the mountains and then down

01:51:41.840 --> 01:51:48.399
into Italy. And I think that if I was sitting

01:51:48.399 --> 01:51:52.159
in the White House right now, I think to protect

01:51:52.159 --> 01:51:58.479
both for the president, core constituency is

01:51:58.479 --> 01:52:06.960
ag. Voted for him three times. And he holds that

01:52:06.960 --> 01:52:11.939
near and dear. And I think that it's good politics

01:52:11.939 --> 01:52:14.220
and it's good public health. It's a good health

01:52:14.220 --> 01:52:19.600
agricultural decision to raise the barriers now

01:52:19.600 --> 01:52:25.460
until we can see that Europe has resolved the

01:52:25.460 --> 01:52:27.420
risk associated with this. How are they going

01:52:27.420 --> 01:52:31.399
to resolve that? So, once again, what— This is

01:52:31.399 --> 01:52:33.560
wild hogs. This is not like it's anything that's

01:52:33.560 --> 01:52:36.760
contained. And to your point, I don't know the

01:52:36.760 --> 01:52:39.489
answer. I mean, right now what they're doing

01:52:39.489 --> 01:52:43.630
is they're using drones to try to find, you know

01:52:43.630 --> 01:52:46.390
how hard it is to hunt wild hog. Yeah, they hunt

01:52:46.390 --> 01:52:48.609
them out of helicopters here in Texas. Yeah.

01:52:48.710 --> 01:52:52.750
And they still can't even get them. And the hogs

01:52:52.750 --> 01:52:54.989
are winning. It's like the emu wars in Australia,

01:52:55.069 --> 01:52:58.729
right? My friend Monty Franklin is from Australia,

01:52:58.850 --> 01:53:02.050
actually has a joke about that. We fought a war

01:53:02.050 --> 01:53:05.029
with the emus and we lost. It's true. We have

01:53:05.029 --> 01:53:08.090
emus on our farm. They are weird animals, man.

01:53:08.130 --> 01:53:10.989
It's like living with dinosaurs. They're dumb

01:53:10.989 --> 01:53:14.750
as shit too. They are weird. My wife says they

01:53:14.750 --> 01:53:17.250
don't have two brain cells to rub together. I

01:53:17.250 --> 01:53:19.630
talked to a lady who's a falconer and she said

01:53:19.630 --> 01:53:22.890
the dumbest birds by far are emus. Second dumbest

01:53:22.890 --> 01:53:24.869
are owls, she said. Oh, really? I didn't know

01:53:24.869 --> 01:53:26.710
the owls. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I didn't know

01:53:26.710 --> 01:53:28.609
that. I thought they were so smart. Give a hoot,

01:53:28.649 --> 01:53:30.430
don't pollute. They're always wearing a monocle.

01:53:32.310 --> 01:53:35.270
They're always the wise professor. Well, right.

01:53:35.430 --> 01:53:37.850
It goes back. It goes back to Athens, the symbol

01:53:37.850 --> 01:53:41.909
of learning. Crazy. Very weird. Yeah, so emus

01:53:41.909 --> 01:53:44.090
are weird. So they have to try to use drones.

01:53:44.250 --> 01:53:46.050
I don't know what they're going to do. What they

01:53:46.050 --> 01:53:49.850
did to control in Europe. So the former assistant

01:53:49.850 --> 01:53:52.310
director general of the WHO, who I knew, this

01:53:52.310 --> 01:53:55.949
was her claim to fame, was she had led the development

01:53:55.949 --> 01:54:03.640
of rabies baits. And they would bait. with a

01:54:03.640 --> 01:54:08.720
rabies vaccine to try to control the incidence

01:54:08.720 --> 01:54:12.100
of rabies in particularly foxes was the problem

01:54:12.100 --> 01:54:15.840
throughout Europe. And a lot of the foxes were

01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:21.180
crossing from the less developed part of the

01:54:21.180 --> 01:54:24.159
European Union into France, which was not acceptable.

01:54:24.699 --> 01:54:28.460
She was French. And so what they did is they

01:54:28.460 --> 01:54:33.489
developed these baits with the vaccine. And they

01:54:33.489 --> 01:54:35.470
would distribute them out of helicopters. And

01:54:35.470 --> 01:54:37.949
there's a whole science about how dense the baits

01:54:37.949 --> 01:54:42.970
have to be to get immunity against rabies in

01:54:42.970 --> 01:54:47.189
fox populations. A whole science around it. But

01:54:47.189 --> 01:54:51.380
they were successful. They controlled fox and

01:54:51.380 --> 01:54:54.699
wolf population rabies in Europe, largely eradicated

01:54:54.699 --> 01:54:57.619
it through the use of baits distributed by helicopters.

01:54:57.960 --> 01:54:59.899
Do they have a vaccine for this? No, they don't.

01:54:59.899 --> 01:55:01.260
That's what they were supposed to be developing.

01:55:01.399 --> 01:55:03.100
That was the whole purpose. They were supposed

01:55:03.100 --> 01:55:05.119
to be developing, but really what they were developing

01:55:05.119 --> 01:55:09.199
is more transmissible strain. Whatever. Yeah.

01:55:09.300 --> 01:55:12.020
In order to prove that they could, I don't know.

01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:14.920
It's the same story over and over again. It's

01:55:14.920 --> 01:55:19.039
Wuhan 2 .0. Exactly. And how are we not? going

01:55:19.039 --> 01:55:24.180
to see this as an increasing trend. And there's

01:55:24.180 --> 01:55:26.539
the whole dark side that, you know, when I, you

01:55:26.539 --> 01:55:30.180
know, I read my comments. Maybe I shouldn't sometimes,

01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:36.699
but I do. Don't do it after this show. So, you

01:55:36.699 --> 01:55:39.460
know, you get the blowback. Well, this is all

01:55:39.460 --> 01:55:41.380
by intention because they're building market.

01:55:41.939 --> 01:55:43.939
for whatever it is that they want to market,

01:55:44.020 --> 01:55:46.960
right? There's one of the dark themes about COVID

01:55:46.960 --> 01:55:50.100
was that they wanted to promote the spread of

01:55:50.100 --> 01:55:52.279
COVID in order to sell the vaccines and blah,

01:55:52.300 --> 01:55:55.180
blah, blah. So that's the narrative. And so in

01:55:55.180 --> 01:55:57.560
this case, well, they want to spread African

01:55:57.560 --> 01:56:00.760
swine fever because somehow they're going to

01:56:00.760 --> 01:56:02.420
profit from that while destroying their pork

01:56:02.420 --> 01:56:07.810
industry. But this is the armchair. strategists

01:56:07.810 --> 01:56:10.989
on the internet. But that... Has it gotten into

01:56:10.989 --> 01:56:14.590
the domestic pork market? Interesting question.

01:56:14.789 --> 01:56:18.869
Not to my knowledge yet, but I have this interesting

01:56:18.869 --> 01:56:21.569
colleague that I work with closely at the ACIP

01:56:21.569 --> 01:56:24.529
named Retzif Levy, who's the chair of the COVID

01:56:24.529 --> 01:56:27.189
Working Group and is giving the pharmaceutical

01:56:27.189 --> 01:56:29.770
industry a run for their money right now. And

01:56:29.770 --> 01:56:32.010
it's, of course, being vilified. by the press,

01:56:32.109 --> 01:56:36.250
et cetera. And Retsiff is a full professor at

01:56:36.250 --> 01:56:42.250
MIT. And his core competence is risk analysis

01:56:42.250 --> 01:56:48.250
and mitigation. And he reads my substack because

01:56:48.250 --> 01:56:50.729
we're friends. He doesn't subscribe, I'm pretty

01:56:50.729 --> 01:56:57.989
sure, but he reads it. And so we're talking and

01:56:57.989 --> 01:56:59.470
he says, yeah, I read that thing that you put

01:56:59.470 --> 01:57:02.399
out about that virus. And he said, I wrote a

01:57:02.399 --> 01:57:05.880
proposal years ago about risk mitigation and

01:57:05.880 --> 01:57:08.319
the need to do something about that because of

01:57:08.319 --> 01:57:12.760
the ease by which it can enter the domestic pork

01:57:12.760 --> 01:57:17.680
population. So I infer from that that there is

01:57:17.680 --> 01:57:21.060
a whole body of science and logic about – and

01:57:21.060 --> 01:57:25.920
he said it's very readily transmitted into commercial

01:57:25.920 --> 01:57:28.859
pork, which is why the Chinese have already dropped.

01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:30.939
you know, dropped the curtain and said, no, we're

01:57:30.939 --> 01:57:33.039
not going to allow any of that into our into

01:57:33.039 --> 01:57:36.180
China because of the risk. I mean, what we're

01:57:36.180 --> 01:57:40.760
talking about. So I wrote an essay about low

01:57:40.760 --> 01:57:47.060
risk, high impact events, which is what we're

01:57:47.060 --> 01:57:50.439
talking about. Another example of a low risk,

01:57:50.479 --> 01:57:55.090
high impact event is gene drive technology. that

01:57:55.090 --> 01:57:57.270
Gates is promoting to exterminate the mosquitoes,

01:57:57.449 --> 01:57:59.689
for example. You know, gene drive technology

01:57:59.689 --> 01:58:02.829
can be used to exterminate a species, particularly

01:58:02.829 --> 01:58:05.829
ones that have a high reproductive rate. And,

01:58:05.869 --> 01:58:09.149
you know, it's another one that is a CRISPR application.

01:58:10.590 --> 01:58:15.430
But there is a whole school of thought that gene

01:58:15.430 --> 01:58:17.949
drive tech should never be let out of the box

01:58:17.949 --> 01:58:24.350
into the environment. That what's, you know,

01:58:24.350 --> 01:58:26.409
there are those that are actively promoting its

01:58:26.409 --> 01:58:33.369
use and to eliminate bad stuff. And, you know,

01:58:33.369 --> 01:58:37.369
we're all for eliminating bad stuff. You know,

01:58:37.369 --> 01:58:43.550
organisms, insects, worms, flies, stuff. And

01:58:43.550 --> 01:58:50.029
yet it and we can do experiments where we say,

01:58:50.149 --> 01:58:52.819
oh, we'll. cultivate this kind of fly together

01:58:52.819 --> 01:58:54.600
with that kind of fly, and only these flies are

01:58:54.600 --> 01:58:55.699
going to have gene drive, and we're going to

01:58:55.699 --> 01:58:57.039
look for whether or not it gets over to these

01:58:57.039 --> 01:58:58.979
flies. And if it doesn't, then we can conclude

01:58:58.979 --> 01:59:01.899
that it's unlikely. But as Brett would tell you,

01:59:01.979 --> 01:59:05.119
we're dealing with ecosystems here, really complex

01:59:05.119 --> 01:59:10.439
ecosystems. And the risk environment now that

01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:15.619
I think grownups have to acknowledge, coming

01:59:15.619 --> 01:59:18.359
out of COVID, you know, the big lessons, we can

01:59:18.359 --> 01:59:23.069
talk about these egregious things that we've

01:59:23.069 --> 01:59:24.930
all experienced that have been put on us. But

01:59:24.930 --> 01:59:30.210
the big picture is this thing came out and I'm

01:59:30.210 --> 01:59:33.850
convinced it was engineered. I believe the most

01:59:33.850 --> 01:59:36.189
likely hypothesis is not that it was intentionally

01:59:36.189 --> 01:59:37.869
released. I still think that's a possibility.

01:59:38.470 --> 01:59:43.010
But that it was an unintentional release, an

01:59:43.010 --> 01:59:45.850
infection of a lab worker or something like that

01:59:45.850 --> 01:59:48.369
that let it get out because that's what happens

01:59:48.369 --> 01:59:53.409
again and again in these facilities. These low

01:59:53.409 --> 01:59:57.550
probability events can have extremely high impacts,

01:59:57.729 --> 02:00:02.649
as we've seen, global impacts. And we have to

02:00:02.649 --> 02:00:06.489
rethink how we're managing risk, which is, as

02:00:06.489 --> 02:00:08.770
I mentioned, Redshift's kind of core competence.

02:00:09.409 --> 02:00:15.729
And that logic... runs up against this belief

02:00:15.729 --> 02:00:19.350
that, well, it hasn't happened so far, and I'm

02:00:19.350 --> 02:00:21.649
an expert, and I have the right to play around

02:00:21.649 --> 02:00:26.229
in this sandbox that I've helped develop. I know

02:00:26.229 --> 02:00:28.430
more than you do. How can you tell me that I

02:00:28.430 --> 02:00:29.989
shouldn't be doing that? You don't have the right

02:00:29.989 --> 02:00:32.869
to tell me. I'm the expert in this space. And

02:00:32.869 --> 02:00:35.649
to come into that environment and say, look,

02:00:35.710 --> 02:00:38.949
guys, you're playing around with stuff that could

02:00:38.949 --> 02:00:41.750
have a very high impact, even though it hasn't

02:00:41.750 --> 02:00:49.659
happened yet. And you got to rethink what is

02:00:49.659 --> 02:00:53.119
acceptable. And I think that, you know, we were

02:00:53.119 --> 02:00:55.260
talking a moment about the State Department and

02:00:55.260 --> 02:01:02.420
weapon control. We're now in an environment where

02:01:02.420 --> 02:01:09.460
the speed of growth of the power of biotechnology

02:01:09.460 --> 02:01:13.409
is accelerating. It's going. exponential, just

02:01:13.409 --> 02:01:18.810
like what we saw with semiconductors. And our

02:01:18.810 --> 02:01:24.229
bioethics, our regulatory structures, our way

02:01:24.229 --> 02:01:29.569
of thinking about those risks is completely unable

02:01:29.569 --> 02:01:36.369
to keep up with the pace of the advance. And

02:01:36.369 --> 02:01:41.329
that is creating a whole new threat scene, not

02:01:41.329 --> 02:01:44.029
to scare people, I mean, as I was thinking about

02:01:44.029 --> 02:01:45.949
coming on here, I was saying to myself, OK, Robert,

02:01:46.130 --> 02:01:48.829
just take a deep breath. It's only Joe Rogan.

02:01:48.890 --> 02:01:52.109
He's a human. And you want to stay positive.

02:01:52.310 --> 02:01:55.229
And I don't want to go dark and just scare people.

02:01:55.350 --> 02:02:00.369
But we've got to take – we've got to recognize

02:02:00.369 --> 02:02:07.609
that this is a different world now. We have all

02:02:07.609 --> 02:02:12.500
of this digital tech. And what it means in information

02:02:12.500 --> 02:02:17.539
control and suppression and manipulation psychologically,

02:02:18.079 --> 02:02:22.460
basically programming, customized programming

02:02:22.460 --> 02:02:27.800
through avatars and all of this power. But we

02:02:27.800 --> 02:02:32.380
also have in parallel this world of rapidly advancing

02:02:32.380 --> 02:02:38.100
biotechnology that is, you know, for the likes

02:02:38.100 --> 02:02:41.520
of Yuval Harari. and those that are imagining

02:02:41.520 --> 02:02:47.420
a future of transhumanism. And all of that means

02:02:47.420 --> 02:02:55.939
we are moving very rapidly into a world that

02:02:55.939 --> 02:03:00.579
we can hardly even process. One of the big thrust

02:03:00.579 --> 02:03:03.319
vectors in Silicon Valley right now relating

02:03:03.319 --> 02:03:05.659
to reproductive rights has to do with the development

02:03:05.659 --> 02:03:09.199
of artificial wombs. You know, these wealthy,

02:03:09.600 --> 02:03:14.140
privileged people don't want to carry their own

02:03:14.140 --> 02:03:18.000
babies. And I guess surrogates are too cumbersome

02:03:18.000 --> 02:03:21.279
or risky. So they're really talking about a baby?

02:03:21.279 --> 02:03:25.020
It's not talking. It's not talking. We're going

02:03:25.020 --> 02:03:27.479
to run an essay about this soon. They already

02:03:27.479 --> 02:03:32.039
have a lamb that they have grown de novo in an

02:03:32.039 --> 02:03:37.810
artificial womb. We're there. OK. And these people

02:03:37.810 --> 02:03:41.569
see it as freeing. This this is this is more

02:03:41.569 --> 02:03:46.810
women's rights. You know, we we don't need to

02:03:46.810 --> 02:03:52.390
have the organic process of carrying a baby.

02:03:52.449 --> 02:03:55.869
And that's a good thing, they believe. You know,

02:03:55.869 --> 02:03:59.810
completely disregarding that there is a whole

02:03:59.810 --> 02:04:02.810
lot of subtle, complex interactions that occur

02:04:02.810 --> 02:04:06.829
between mother and fetus in the womb. OK, that

02:04:06.829 --> 02:04:10.350
gives rise to. Right. Who knows what kind of

02:04:10.350 --> 02:04:12.890
humans you're going to develop with no interaction

02:04:12.890 --> 02:04:15.430
with the mother at all. But the entire nine months

02:04:15.430 --> 02:04:17.729
where they're developing. But that exchange of

02:04:17.729 --> 02:04:20.710
hormones. But for the sake of convenience, we

02:04:20.710 --> 02:04:24.289
want to do that. Oh, God. OK. And that what that.

02:04:24.649 --> 02:04:29.170
You know, zoom in on that. Okay, that has all

02:04:29.170 --> 02:04:32.489
kinds of implications. It has implications for

02:04:32.489 --> 02:04:35.289
organ transplantation. My friend Jan Jekielek,

02:04:35.329 --> 02:04:36.729
I don't know if you know Jan, if you've ever

02:04:36.729 --> 02:04:39.449
had him on, you might want to sometime. Interesting

02:04:39.449 --> 02:04:41.430
character. He is the Washington Bureau Chief

02:04:41.430 --> 02:04:46.109
for this newspaper that is defamed all the time,

02:04:46.210 --> 02:04:49.739
ridiculed, Epoch Times. Which I think is like

02:04:49.739 --> 02:04:52.420
the only print newspaper left in the United States

02:04:52.420 --> 02:04:55.239
that's worth reading that ascribes to classical

02:04:55.239 --> 02:04:57.600
journalism. But he's just come out with a book

02:04:57.600 --> 02:05:02.500
about organ harvesting in China and organ harvesting

02:05:02.500 --> 02:05:06.729
on demand. documenting that they are using live

02:05:06.729 --> 02:05:09.670
prisoners and keeping them in compounds and testing

02:05:09.670 --> 02:05:11.869
them for their genetic background and characteristics

02:05:11.869 --> 02:05:15.409
and then harvesting them when necessary to provide

02:05:15.409 --> 02:05:18.369
organs for transplantation largely to Westerners

02:05:18.369 --> 02:05:21.510
because it is enormously profitable and also

02:05:21.510 --> 02:05:24.270
to leaders in the CCP. This is what all this

02:05:24.270 --> 02:05:26.729
brouhaha was about the open mic event with Putin

02:05:26.729 --> 02:05:30.560
about we can use transplantation to – Let us

02:05:30.560 --> 02:05:33.079
live another hundred years. Remember that little

02:05:33.079 --> 02:05:38.460
clip? So in a world in which we can have artificial

02:05:38.460 --> 02:05:43.619
wombs, we can grow our own clones to provide

02:05:43.619 --> 02:05:48.260
donor tissue, to provide an insurance policy.

02:05:48.520 --> 02:05:53.640
We are right at the doorstep of that. Again,

02:05:54.260 --> 02:05:58.569
demonic. It sounds demonic. I mean, is a soul

02:05:58.569 --> 02:06:01.430
a real thing? Just because it can't be quantified

02:06:01.430 --> 02:06:03.850
by science, you can't measure it? I mean, the

02:06:03.850 --> 02:06:06.210
concept of the soul has always existed. If that's

02:06:06.210 --> 02:06:10.350
a real thing, who knows what you're doing creating

02:06:10.350 --> 02:06:14.029
a human being from an artificial womb? Who knows

02:06:14.029 --> 02:06:16.729
what kind of processes are happening? We know

02:06:16.729 --> 02:06:21.430
that stress on the mother imparts all sorts of

02:06:21.430 --> 02:06:25.640
unwanted characteristics in children. We know

02:06:25.640 --> 02:06:28.039
that. We know like – All kinds of interactions.

02:06:28.039 --> 02:06:30.640
Yes. The playing of music. That's real. Yes.

02:06:30.640 --> 02:06:36.380
Yes. Soothing playing of music. Yeah. So that's

02:06:36.380 --> 02:06:40.920
happening. That vector is proceeding. And once

02:06:40.920 --> 02:06:45.340
you have that in a world of CRISPR, okay, you

02:06:45.340 --> 02:06:47.899
can do genetic modification of a very small number

02:06:47.899 --> 02:06:50.979
of cells and then grow a fetus from that. Okay?

02:06:51.020 --> 02:06:55.789
So that opens the door. Did you watch the movie

02:06:55.789 --> 02:06:59.329
Gattaca? Yeah. Gattaca, absolutely recommended.

02:06:59.670 --> 02:07:02.670
If you want to understand our brave new world,

02:07:02.729 --> 02:07:05.189
the one that's really coming at us and the ethical

02:07:05.189 --> 02:07:08.170
conundrums associated with that, watch Gattaca.

02:07:08.970 --> 02:07:10.789
And by the way, it has great production value

02:07:10.789 --> 02:07:13.050
too, doesn't it? It's a great movie. Great movie

02:07:13.050 --> 02:07:15.489
and totally underappreciated. And terrifying.

02:07:15.750 --> 02:07:18.500
Yeah. That's really what our future is. And the

02:07:18.500 --> 02:07:22.500
title G -A -T -T -A -G -A refers to a DNA sequence,

02:07:22.619 --> 02:07:25.180
by the way. That's why the name Gattaca. Oh.

02:07:25.859 --> 02:07:29.899
Okay. So watch the movie. You've already seen

02:07:29.899 --> 02:07:33.640
it. You get it. Okay. We are moving to that space

02:07:33.640 --> 02:07:38.079
where we have custom -built humans. Now it's

02:07:38.079 --> 02:07:41.380
being, you know, what's driving that? Convenience.

02:07:41.720 --> 02:07:44.159
Who doesn't want to have a child that's better

02:07:44.159 --> 02:07:47.680
than, that's like you but better? stronger, bigger,

02:07:48.100 --> 02:07:52.000
you know, smarter, better vision, get rid of

02:07:52.000 --> 02:07:54.140
all the problems that I've got or you've got

02:07:54.140 --> 02:07:57.659
or whomever, you know, and in your next offspring.

02:07:57.819 --> 02:08:00.340
And all you got to do, because here's another

02:08:00.340 --> 02:08:05.300
fun fact, at bulk, whole genome sequencing is

02:08:05.300 --> 02:08:10.060
now about 300 bucks. Whole genome sequencing

02:08:10.060 --> 02:08:16.420
is the portal for selective engineering. with

02:08:16.420 --> 02:08:21.760
Cas9 CRISPR systems. So we now, we're right on

02:08:21.760 --> 02:08:25.180
the threshold of that entire spectrum of capability

02:08:25.180 --> 02:08:28.899
of manipulating animals, life, fundamentals of

02:08:28.899 --> 02:08:33.500
life in every species and humans. And concurrently,

02:08:33.500 --> 02:08:37.500
we have the incoming vector of robotics technology

02:08:37.500 --> 02:08:42.640
and... Modern computational advance, we're moving

02:08:42.640 --> 02:08:45.579
rapidly. People say, oh, it's going to be next

02:08:45.579 --> 02:08:47.859
month we're going to have general artificial

02:08:47.859 --> 02:08:49.819
intelligence. Well, they keep saying that month

02:08:49.819 --> 02:08:53.119
after month. What do we got here? This is a video

02:08:53.119 --> 02:08:58.659
made about the artificial wombs. Yeah. Oh, boy.

02:08:58.800 --> 02:09:00.340
I don't know who made this. I was trying to figure

02:09:00.340 --> 02:09:01.920
out who made this. I don't think the company

02:09:01.920 --> 02:09:04.119
who was doing it made it, but they might have.

02:09:04.439 --> 02:09:06.819
I'm not BSing. I mean, doesn't this look like

02:09:06.819 --> 02:09:09.990
it's something straight out of The Matrix? 100%.

02:09:09.990 --> 02:09:13.050
This is all 3D. Obviously, it's not real, but

02:09:13.050 --> 02:09:16.529
oh my God, this is terrifying. This is a business

02:09:16.529 --> 02:09:19.770
model. What kind of psychology does this child

02:09:19.770 --> 02:09:23.630
have with no exposure to its mother? Hey, but

02:09:23.630 --> 02:09:27.750
for mom, it's a lot more convenient. And she

02:09:27.750 --> 02:09:30.329
can get the perfect baby that she wants. What's

02:09:30.329 --> 02:09:31.850
not to like here, Joe? Until it becomes a fucking

02:09:31.850 --> 02:09:35.350
serial killer. Yeah. And you put it on SSRIs.

02:09:35.409 --> 02:09:37.310
Well, this is the thing about – do you know the

02:09:37.310 --> 02:09:39.829
story about Ted Kaczynski? One of the stories,

02:09:40.050 --> 02:09:42.470
one of the things that happened to him? In the

02:09:42.470 --> 02:09:44.069
Netflix documentary, they go into this. He was

02:09:44.069 --> 02:09:46.250
very sick when he was a boy, when he was a baby.

02:09:46.489 --> 02:09:49.310
And they kept him in this nursery with no contact

02:09:49.310 --> 02:09:52.409
with human beings for a long time, for a long

02:09:52.409 --> 02:09:54.289
time. No one picked him up when he cried. He

02:09:54.289 --> 02:09:57.670
just sat in this crib with no contact with his

02:09:57.670 --> 02:10:01.850
mother, nothing. And he – From then on, I mean,

02:10:01.850 --> 02:10:04.270
his brother always described him as just like

02:10:04.270 --> 02:10:08.029
off. Yeah. Just off. Yeah. He never had that.

02:10:08.069 --> 02:10:11.810
Early stage neural development is amazing and

02:10:11.810 --> 02:10:14.109
profound. By the way, this loops back to the

02:10:14.109 --> 02:10:17.590
vaccine story. When we're doing all these jabs

02:10:17.590 --> 02:10:19.649
on these little tiny kids like Hepatitis B birth

02:10:19.649 --> 02:10:22.729
dose, they are at a stage where this thing is

02:10:22.729 --> 02:10:25.250
just growing like crazy. And so is their liver

02:10:25.250 --> 02:10:27.449
and everything else. And you're injecting toxic

02:10:27.449 --> 02:10:31.300
chemicals into their body. Which you really haven't

02:10:31.300 --> 02:10:33.720
characterized well and you're stacking them.

02:10:33.880 --> 02:10:37.460
Yeah. And no one's done the studies. And you're

02:10:37.460 --> 02:10:40.100
doing it for profit. This is another thing that

02:10:40.100 --> 02:10:43.300
the secretary is adamant about and that the president

02:10:43.300 --> 02:10:47.739
has led on. Having them exempt from any legal

02:10:47.739 --> 02:10:50.199
ramifications of the adverse side effects of

02:10:50.199 --> 02:10:52.199
vaccines, what they did during the Reagan administration,

02:10:52.560 --> 02:10:56.250
it's really – it gave them this – Free license.

02:10:56.390 --> 02:10:57.750
Yeah, free license. To just go crazy. To just

02:10:57.750 --> 02:11:00.550
go crazy and jack up the vaccine schedule as

02:11:00.550 --> 02:11:03.550
high as they could justify. And then along with

02:11:03.550 --> 02:11:06.210
it, corresponding profits rise. That's what's

02:11:06.210 --> 02:11:09.489
fucking scary. So if you want to go down that

02:11:09.489 --> 02:11:13.569
rabbit hole, it's even worse. Once functionally,

02:11:13.569 --> 02:11:16.770
because of how difficult it is to prove an endpoint

02:11:16.770 --> 02:11:19.810
and get a vaccine licensed, once you get it licensed,

02:11:19.890 --> 02:11:23.270
you basically have a cash cow in perpetuity.

02:11:23.810 --> 02:11:26.970
And if you get it down on the pediatric schedule,

02:11:27.189 --> 02:11:29.109
in other words, you manage to jam it through

02:11:29.109 --> 02:11:33.949
the ACIP, because the ACIP, the wisdom of Congress,

02:11:34.170 --> 02:11:38.289
is vested with the authority of authorizing the

02:11:38.289 --> 02:11:41.399
Vaccines for Children program acquisitions. So

02:11:41.399 --> 02:11:44.180
there's no other program in the entire United

02:11:44.180 --> 02:11:47.760
States government that is outside of congressional

02:11:47.760 --> 02:11:52.380
oversight. The ACIP can decide that this vaccine

02:11:52.380 --> 02:11:54.500
needs to be purchased for the Vaccines for Children

02:11:54.500 --> 02:11:57.460
program. And historically, because the ACIP has

02:11:57.460 --> 02:12:00.640
been captured by pharma and by the CDC itself

02:12:00.640 --> 02:12:05.760
and by academia, those decisions, they never

02:12:05.760 --> 02:12:09.680
go backwards. And so you get the product down

02:12:09.680 --> 02:12:12.279
onto the VFC, the Vaccine for Children program,

02:12:12.560 --> 02:12:15.479
and the pediatric schedule, and then that triggers

02:12:15.479 --> 02:12:17.300
the indemnification clause that you're talking

02:12:17.300 --> 02:12:19.579
about, which, by the way, is different from the

02:12:19.579 --> 02:12:23.180
one that kicked in with the COVID situation,

02:12:23.619 --> 02:12:27.560
with the PrEP Act. That's even worse. But what

02:12:27.560 --> 02:12:31.979
you end up with, Joe, is a situation where, as

02:12:31.979 --> 02:12:35.939
the vaccine manufacturer, think it, you now have...

02:12:36.300 --> 02:12:40.020
No legal liability. You have guaranteed purchasing,

02:12:40.420 --> 02:12:43.779
distribution and marketing because the CDC does

02:12:43.779 --> 02:12:46.159
all the propaganda. Vaccines are safe and effective.

02:12:46.359 --> 02:12:49.060
You must take this. Right. And then then you

02:12:49.060 --> 02:12:51.500
end up with and it's in many cases, it's school

02:12:51.500 --> 02:12:54.060
district level. It's not even state level. The

02:12:54.060 --> 02:12:55.680
states have the right to regulate the practice

02:12:55.680 --> 02:12:57.399
of medicine. The federal government doesn't.

02:12:57.399 --> 02:13:00.659
That means the CDC can advise that this is the

02:13:00.659 --> 02:13:03.279
vaccine schedule. And many states, because they

02:13:03.279 --> 02:13:05.260
don't have the infrastructure to actually process

02:13:05.260 --> 02:13:08.180
what's going on, they say, well, if the CDC advises

02:13:08.180 --> 02:13:11.479
it, then we're going to mandate it. Or school

02:13:11.479 --> 02:13:14.260
districts do. And so you end up in this situation

02:13:14.260 --> 02:13:17.340
where you as the manufacturer get your product

02:13:17.340 --> 02:13:19.859
on the market. You get it down into this special

02:13:19.859 --> 02:13:22.600
program. You got guaranteed purchase, guaranteed

02:13:22.600 --> 02:13:27.159
profit, full indemnification, marketing, purchase,

02:13:27.380 --> 02:13:31.220
distribution, all paid for by the taxpayer. And

02:13:31.220 --> 02:13:36.159
no liability. It's perfect as a business model.

02:13:36.239 --> 02:13:39.100
What's not to like? It's so scary how many people

02:13:39.100 --> 02:13:42.439
just go along with it too. They don't just go

02:13:42.439 --> 02:13:44.979
along with it. They are propagandized into believing

02:13:44.979 --> 02:13:50.319
it as a theology. Exactly. I was going to say

02:13:50.319 --> 02:13:52.359
it's religious dogma. They've administered it

02:13:52.359 --> 02:13:55.079
to their children. They believe it wholeheartedly.

02:13:55.239 --> 02:13:56.939
And when someone says something like vaccines

02:13:56.939 --> 02:13:59.279
don't cause autism, the whole audience will applaud.

02:13:59.539 --> 02:14:01.939
And you're like, how do you know? How do you

02:14:01.939 --> 02:14:03.720
know that? Well, you're so confident that you're

02:14:03.720 --> 02:14:05.399
applauding. Well, it's because what I've heard.

02:14:05.920 --> 02:14:08.960
I've heard it so many times. Of course I believe

02:14:08.960 --> 02:14:10.739
it. That's what's twisted about it. It's just,

02:14:10.880 --> 02:14:14.720
well, it illustrates the power of what we're

02:14:14.720 --> 02:14:17.939
dealing with. Yeah. And once you get it by thinking

02:14:17.939 --> 02:14:23.220
through the vaccine story, I mean, you're ruined

02:14:23.220 --> 02:14:26.319
now, my friend. Because once you get it about

02:14:26.319 --> 02:14:30.060
vaccines, then you see it everywhere. Well, I

02:14:30.060 --> 02:14:33.140
had Suzanne Humphries on. who wrote that book,

02:14:33.239 --> 02:14:36.439
Dissolving Illusions. And, you know, that book

02:14:36.439 --> 02:14:38.819
is a must read for anybody who wants to really

02:14:38.819 --> 02:14:41.859
understand the history of vaccines and what really

02:14:41.859 --> 02:14:45.340
happened in terms of the end of pandemics and

02:14:45.340 --> 02:14:48.180
the introduction of these vaccines, like what

02:14:48.180 --> 02:14:50.659
actually took place. Yes, yes. Oh, that, that.

02:14:50.979 --> 02:14:54.199
And, you know, there's a whole thread of how

02:14:54.199 --> 02:14:58.640
prevalent. lead was in the population, in the

02:14:58.640 --> 02:15:00.739
powdered wigs and so many things that we had.

02:15:00.819 --> 02:15:02.539
And then when they got rid of the lead, that

02:15:02.539 --> 02:15:06.699
was concurrent with the onset of widespread vaccination.

02:15:07.039 --> 02:15:10.960
And so the loss of life associated or the improvement

02:15:10.960 --> 02:15:13.920
in loss of life and birth outcomes associated

02:15:13.920 --> 02:15:15.520
with getting the lead out of the population,

02:15:15.920 --> 02:15:18.760
well, that's ascribed to the vaccines by the

02:15:18.760 --> 02:15:21.300
people that are busy marketing vaccines. And

02:15:21.300 --> 02:15:24.899
likewise, the all... All the work associated

02:15:24.899 --> 02:15:29.920
with water sanitation and all of that. No, that's

02:15:29.920 --> 02:15:32.399
all true. The first time I, to credit where credit's

02:15:32.399 --> 02:15:37.539
due, as a vaccinologist, the first time I really

02:15:37.539 --> 02:15:41.340
encountered that logic was Candace Owens had

02:15:41.340 --> 02:15:44.380
me on years ago. And she said, you know, we've

02:15:44.380 --> 02:15:46.380
done this deep dive and we've looked at this

02:15:46.380 --> 02:15:49.659
thing and these infectious diseases go down before

02:15:49.659 --> 02:15:53.079
the vaccines come up. And yet we're told this

02:15:53.079 --> 02:15:55.680
narrative. Right. And of course we're told this

02:15:55.680 --> 02:15:59.140
narrative. Yeah. The polio one's the nuttier

02:15:59.140 --> 02:16:02.500
one. Because when people are so concerned about

02:16:02.500 --> 02:16:06.260
polio and polio vaccines and we cure polio, they're

02:16:06.260 --> 02:16:08.279
going to bring back polio if they stop the vaccines.

02:16:08.699 --> 02:16:12.430
When I tell them what. percentage of polio do

02:16:12.430 --> 02:16:16.369
you think is asymptomatic? And that most people

02:16:16.369 --> 02:16:22.489
think like none, right? It's 95 to 99 % of polio

02:16:22.489 --> 02:16:26.109
is asymptomatic. And then you find out through

02:16:26.109 --> 02:16:28.449
Suzanne Humphrey's work that they were spraying

02:16:28.449 --> 02:16:31.149
DDT ubiquitously all over the country at the

02:16:31.149 --> 02:16:35.270
same time. And it gives you the same exact symptoms

02:16:35.270 --> 02:16:39.360
of paralytic polio. And then subsequently the

02:16:39.360 --> 02:16:41.920
actual first infections that started occurring

02:16:41.920 --> 02:16:44.239
in this country were occurring in rural areas

02:16:44.239 --> 02:16:50.260
where they sprayed DDT everywhere. Yeah. So one

02:16:50.260 --> 02:16:54.120
of – so there's – if I can kind of throw another

02:16:54.120 --> 02:16:57.379
log in the fire on that narrative. One of the

02:16:57.379 --> 02:17:00.680
cool things that I'm getting to see from my perch

02:17:00.680 --> 02:17:03.840
at the ACIP is people working at the cutting

02:17:03.840 --> 02:17:08.309
edge of modern genetic – technology investigations

02:17:08.309 --> 02:17:12.129
about cause and effect and genomic effects. And

02:17:12.129 --> 02:17:15.569
one of the things you talk about this rare incidence

02:17:15.569 --> 02:17:22.590
of paralytic polio or myocarditis. Okay. Myocarditis

02:17:22.590 --> 02:17:25.959
is rare. with the vaccine. And yet it happens

02:17:25.959 --> 02:17:28.379
at a significant rate. It happens more in certain

02:17:28.379 --> 02:17:30.260
populations than other populations. This was

02:17:30.260 --> 02:17:32.420
heresy at first, and now they were forced to

02:17:32.420 --> 02:17:37.040
admit it. And stay tuned later in February. But

02:17:37.040 --> 02:17:43.959
there's a group that had a big grant to look

02:17:43.959 --> 02:17:47.340
at genetic links associated with risk factors

02:17:47.340 --> 02:17:50.639
for this. And strangely, halfway through their

02:17:50.639 --> 02:17:52.579
program during the Biden administration, all

02:17:52.579 --> 02:17:55.100
their funding got caught. But they still made

02:17:55.100 --> 02:17:56.860
a lot of progress, and they kind of limped along

02:17:56.860 --> 02:18:00.239
with volunteer stuff. I mentioned the genome

02:18:00.239 --> 02:18:04.280
costs, $300 a genome. These guys have gone through,

02:18:04.340 --> 02:18:06.500
and they've identified seven genes that represent

02:18:06.500 --> 02:18:10.379
high -risk factors for myocarditis after vaccination.

02:18:11.739 --> 02:18:13.600
Myocarditis after vaccination, by the way, was

02:18:13.600 --> 02:18:15.700
a major side effect associated with the smallpox

02:18:15.700 --> 02:18:19.450
vaccines, or one of them. It's been associated

02:18:19.450 --> 02:18:22.049
with vaccines for quite a while. We just kind

02:18:22.049 --> 02:18:23.370
of haven't heard about it and it's particularly

02:18:23.370 --> 02:18:30.129
bad with these. But one of the – trying to continue

02:18:30.129 --> 02:18:34.870
my theme of it's not all dark. One of the things

02:18:34.870 --> 02:18:38.350
that's coming out is that if we commit to it

02:18:38.350 --> 02:18:42.329
and do the research like Team Kennedy is committed

02:18:42.329 --> 02:18:46.290
to doing. we may well be able to detect those

02:18:46.290 --> 02:18:49.450
people that the genetic characteristics of those

02:18:49.450 --> 02:18:52.290
people that might have been at higher risk for,

02:18:52.389 --> 02:18:57.350
say, paralytic polio or myocarditis so that we

02:18:57.350 --> 02:19:00.209
can have genetic tests and you can have that

02:19:00.209 --> 02:19:03.030
test. and determine whether you actually have

02:19:03.030 --> 02:19:05.590
that risk factor. It looks like, because of the

02:19:05.590 --> 02:19:08.729
dynamics of clinical research and epidemiology

02:19:08.729 --> 02:19:12.750
in infectious disease, that this kind of application

02:19:12.750 --> 02:19:15.829
of genetic diagnostic technology may give us

02:19:15.829 --> 02:19:18.469
whole new insights into those small populations

02:19:18.469 --> 02:19:24.969
that had those rare events. We know the big picture

02:19:24.969 --> 02:19:29.069
in COVID. and the COVID vaccination, post -vaccination

02:19:29.069 --> 02:19:32.350
syndromes of the high -risk individuals with

02:19:32.350 --> 02:19:35.049
obesity and elderly and basically people with

02:19:35.049 --> 02:19:39.709
a high inflammatory set point. But now we're

02:19:39.709 --> 02:19:41.670
getting down into some of the nuances. And I

02:19:41.670 --> 02:19:43.170
think that that's, you know, I talked about some

02:19:43.170 --> 02:19:45.790
of the dark sides of biotechnology, but there's

02:19:45.790 --> 02:19:52.729
some real, you know, bright sides that offer

02:19:52.729 --> 02:19:59.049
hope. And what will happen as that kind of starts

02:19:59.049 --> 02:20:04.950
to roll out is that manufacturers and academic

02:20:04.950 --> 02:20:10.190
surrogates and others are kind of not going to

02:20:10.190 --> 02:20:12.590
be able to continue to hide behind these narratives

02:20:12.590 --> 02:20:17.469
that they have promoted now for decades because

02:20:17.469 --> 02:20:20.909
the true -true is going to come out. It is going

02:20:20.909 --> 02:20:23.989
to come out. Is it going to come out during this

02:20:23.989 --> 02:20:26.350
administration? No. To do long -term follow -up

02:20:26.350 --> 02:20:29.690
studies are going to take a decade. That's the

02:20:29.690 --> 02:20:31.129
unfortunate truth. And we're going to have a

02:20:31.129 --> 02:20:33.229
lot of grief around that. How come you haven't

02:20:33.229 --> 02:20:38.049
already fill in the blank? But it's going to

02:20:38.049 --> 02:20:43.090
happen. And that is another big plus of what's

02:20:43.090 --> 02:20:45.809
going on right now kind of behind the scenes

02:20:45.809 --> 02:20:49.010
at HHS. Hopefully they get a chance to still

02:20:49.010 --> 02:20:52.129
do it. after the midterm and they don't get hogtied.

02:20:53.010 --> 02:20:57.829
But I'm optimistic that these narratives that

02:20:57.829 --> 02:20:59.430
have been promoted, these false narratives, we're

02:20:59.430 --> 02:21:01.870
going to be able to break them through doing

02:21:01.870 --> 02:21:06.229
actual science if we're allowed to do it. And

02:21:06.229 --> 02:21:11.670
this new technology is particularly with sequence

02:21:11.670 --> 02:21:17.229
analysis and identification of risk correlates,

02:21:17.229 --> 02:21:20.260
the intersection between Sequence analysis and

02:21:20.260 --> 02:21:24.500
epidemiology is going to really open up new understandings

02:21:24.500 --> 02:21:26.780
about what's going on in human disease. I'm absolutely

02:21:26.780 --> 02:21:30.620
convinced. What we do about it is that's a whole

02:21:30.620 --> 02:21:33.180
other kettle of fish. I mean, we can do the science

02:21:33.180 --> 02:21:36.040
until the cows come home. The public policy part

02:21:36.040 --> 02:21:41.120
is wicked hard. Yeah. But at least there's some

02:21:41.120 --> 02:21:46.940
positive developments. Yeah, that's what I want

02:21:46.940 --> 02:21:49.040
to say. Some bright light at the end. There is

02:21:49.040 --> 02:21:54.420
all this dark stuff. Yeah. And we have to allow

02:21:54.420 --> 02:21:59.639
ourselves to see it. You see it and you get the

02:21:59.639 --> 02:22:02.340
reaction like you did. I don't want to see that.

02:22:02.459 --> 02:22:05.920
That's too much. It's too overwhelming. It's

02:22:05.920 --> 02:22:09.020
too scary. But we look away at our own risk.

02:22:11.420 --> 02:22:15.340
And we have this tendency to say it's all dark.

02:22:16.600 --> 02:22:20.620
We have these individuals. I mentioned Yuval

02:22:20.620 --> 02:22:25.959
Harari believing that man is God now. We no longer

02:22:25.959 --> 02:22:28.840
need God. We have become gods. We have become

02:22:28.840 --> 02:22:31.540
as gods. Does he actually say that? Yeah. Really?

02:22:32.579 --> 02:22:34.639
Isn't he talking sort of metaphorically about

02:22:34.639 --> 02:22:39.540
our technological potential? I don't know how

02:22:39.540 --> 02:22:42.719
to discern the meaning of – He's a very demonized

02:22:42.719 --> 02:22:47.280
guy. He says a lot of dark stuff and I think

02:22:47.280 --> 02:22:51.299
– so you probably read the book. Did you interview

02:22:51.299 --> 02:22:53.899
the author of – Yeah, the Sapiens. Did you read

02:22:53.899 --> 02:22:57.379
the author of Dark Aeon? No. No, I've never read

02:22:57.379 --> 02:22:59.639
that. So that's talking – What is Dark Aeon?

02:22:59.780 --> 02:23:03.000
This is talking more about kind of the Silicon

02:23:03.000 --> 02:23:06.260
Valley culture that's pushing transhumanism and

02:23:06.260 --> 02:23:12.969
how – But integrally, it's become involved in

02:23:12.969 --> 02:23:16.670
this space. I mean what – I don't have – I don't

02:23:16.670 --> 02:23:20.370
pal around with Elon and not to say he is or

02:23:20.370 --> 02:23:22.969
whomever you want to talk about in that space.

02:23:23.549 --> 02:23:28.329
That's not my pay grade. But my understanding

02:23:28.329 --> 02:23:31.010
and I read these things, maybe they're also –

02:23:31.010 --> 02:23:35.959
maybe that's also propaganda. of let's say the

02:23:35.959 --> 02:23:38.600
Bill Gates cast and the younger ones associated

02:23:38.600 --> 02:23:44.000
with that, are advocates for a world in which

02:23:44.000 --> 02:23:47.860
they are able to upload their avatar consciousness

02:23:47.860 --> 02:23:51.959
in a digital space and live forever? That's Ray

02:23:51.959 --> 02:23:55.760
Kurzweil, right? Sounds like you know more. You're

02:23:55.760 --> 02:24:02.250
the UAP. guy here which by the way is another

02:24:02.250 --> 02:24:04.549
fascinating domain that i'm learning more about

02:24:04.549 --> 02:24:07.690
more about it's bizarre um that's a rabbit hole

02:24:07.690 --> 02:24:10.530
you go down like oh this isn't empty this is

02:24:10.530 --> 02:24:12.209
not an empty rabbit hole there's a lot of money

02:24:12.209 --> 02:24:14.030
behind this and it seems like there's been a

02:24:14.030 --> 02:24:17.930
lot of black funding and business yeah business

02:24:17.930 --> 02:24:20.209
a lot of business defense contractors involved

02:24:20.209 --> 02:24:22.729
yeah it seems like there's some inventions that

02:24:22.729 --> 02:24:26.030
sort of emerged out of nowhere that supposedly

02:24:26.030 --> 02:24:28.709
are connected to back engineering programs. So

02:24:28.709 --> 02:24:38.489
I'm now of the belief that there exists a capability

02:24:38.489 --> 02:24:44.770
that transcends physics as we know it. Let's

02:24:44.770 --> 02:24:49.549
say Einsteinian physics and is more aligned with

02:24:49.549 --> 02:24:56.190
Hawking's physics. We can't – we don't comprehend

02:24:56.190 --> 02:25:00.750
right now. And it has to do with extremely high

02:25:00.750 --> 02:25:06.409
energy systems. And I – having – I mean I've

02:25:06.409 --> 02:25:09.690
had some of these guys because I'm now known

02:25:09.690 --> 02:25:13.549
worldwide as a nutcase I guess and conspiracy

02:25:13.549 --> 02:25:17.690
theorist. I've had them on my farm, staying in

02:25:17.690 --> 02:25:22.989
our guest house and shooting the bull. And me

02:25:22.989 --> 02:25:25.649
trying to understand their world and what they're

02:25:25.649 --> 02:25:28.569
seeing and what they've experienced and observed

02:25:28.569 --> 02:25:35.250
and the information. And I'm – there's a lot

02:25:35.250 --> 02:25:36.969
of different models for what the hell is going

02:25:36.969 --> 02:25:39.510
on here. And maybe it's all us, right? That's

02:25:39.510 --> 02:25:42.930
one model. It's all us with – Secret technology.

02:25:43.590 --> 02:25:46.049
That's one model for the – what do they call

02:25:46.049 --> 02:25:51.959
it? Tic -tacs. I'm – increasingly convinced by

02:25:51.959 --> 02:25:55.280
the logic that there is a physics beyond the

02:25:55.280 --> 02:25:58.600
physics that we know that is the physics of extremely

02:25:58.600 --> 02:26:02.680
high energy systems. And in high energy systems,

02:26:02.780 --> 02:26:09.200
a lot of the rules about motion and transportation

02:26:09.200 --> 02:26:15.959
and matter and the ability to cross between matter

02:26:15.959 --> 02:26:22.569
states that... is repeatedly observed and reported

02:26:22.569 --> 02:26:25.870
by responsible people, military folks that have

02:26:25.870 --> 02:26:29.870
strong disincentives for saying this stuff, and

02:26:29.870 --> 02:26:32.030
yet still they're saying, that's what I saw.

02:26:33.450 --> 02:26:35.809
Transmedium devices that can fly and then go

02:26:35.809 --> 02:26:38.670
underwater as fast as they're flying. No ripples.

02:26:38.770 --> 02:26:43.899
Yeah. One of the models of that is that this

02:26:43.899 --> 02:26:49.079
has to do with having some extremely high energy

02:26:49.079 --> 02:26:56.299
source in a very small package. And is that possible?

02:26:57.360 --> 02:27:03.139
We're now moving into a new fusion world, right?

02:27:03.239 --> 02:27:06.020
We're talking about these microfusion reactors

02:27:06.020 --> 02:27:08.750
that are going to be… Powering our data centers

02:27:08.750 --> 02:27:12.329
all over the world, transforming the whole energy,

02:27:12.430 --> 02:27:15.350
right? I mean there's this logic crossing over

02:27:15.350 --> 02:27:19.209
into the economics, Bitcoin or kind of space.

02:27:20.049 --> 02:27:23.250
There's this logic that it all comes down to

02:27:23.250 --> 02:27:30.850
energy. Energy is the one thing that fuels economic

02:27:30.850 --> 02:27:37.729
development and everything around us. I'm not

02:27:37.729 --> 02:27:42.149
a physicist, but I listen and learn, and it sounds

02:27:42.149 --> 02:27:47.969
to me like these micro -reactors and the technology

02:27:47.969 --> 02:27:50.590
that was involved, strangely, in this assassination.

02:27:50.590 --> 02:27:53.829
Remember that bizarre assassination in Boston

02:27:53.829 --> 02:27:56.350
that happened? There was two competing companies.

02:27:57.110 --> 02:28:00.969
The MIT guy. Yeah, there's something going on

02:28:00.969 --> 02:28:05.920
there that's really transformational. And if

02:28:05.920 --> 02:28:09.120
it matures – remember Trump has invested in this

02:28:09.120 --> 02:28:14.540
in a big way that had to do with him kind of

02:28:14.540 --> 02:28:17.040
leveraging truth social in a strange way. Remember?

02:28:19.620 --> 02:28:26.600
If we emerge into a future within my lifetime

02:28:26.600 --> 02:28:33.459
probably of these micro -nukes … as energy sources,

02:28:33.719 --> 02:28:38.280
decentralized. First driven by the tech bros

02:28:38.280 --> 02:28:40.459
because they want to have their data centers.

02:28:40.719 --> 02:28:45.180
But then suddenly we have, as that matures and

02:28:45.180 --> 02:28:48.420
the patents come off, we have the ability to

02:28:48.420 --> 02:28:52.739
put power generation in very small packages wherever

02:28:52.739 --> 02:28:57.079
we want in the world. Suddenly the entire landscape

02:28:57.079 --> 02:28:59.879
of economic activity and the future of humanity

02:28:59.879 --> 02:29:03.280
is transformed like that. And that's just the

02:29:03.280 --> 02:29:06.940
beginning. If we push that technology, we may

02:29:06.940 --> 02:29:12.000
find ourselves in some space where we have the

02:29:12.000 --> 02:29:14.979
ability to produce extremely large amounts of

02:29:14.979 --> 02:29:19.780
energy in a very small package and use that.

02:29:20.040 --> 02:29:23.059
Of course, it will be weaponized. Use that for

02:29:23.059 --> 02:29:28.500
a variety of things. But I think the guys that

02:29:28.500 --> 02:29:31.170
are speculating about these phenomena. being

02:29:31.170 --> 02:29:36.729
driven by the existence of almost point sources

02:29:36.729 --> 02:29:42.510
of unlimited energy functionally, may make sense

02:29:42.510 --> 02:29:44.729
out of things that otherwise are really hard

02:29:44.729 --> 02:29:49.729
to wrap your head around. Well, we're in for

02:29:49.729 --> 02:29:52.090
a very interesting future one way or another.

02:29:52.250 --> 02:29:56.129
Yes. And it doesn't have to be dark and demonic.

02:29:56.629 --> 02:29:59.110
Hopefully not. If we let these bastards have

02:29:59.110 --> 02:30:01.209
their way. What is this, Jamie? Let me make a

02:30:01.209 --> 02:30:03.389
small correction. That video I showed you apparently

02:30:03.389 --> 02:30:07.170
isn't real, not a real company, made by a Berlin

02:30:07.170 --> 02:30:11.430
filmmaker in 2022. Went viral. I found it in

02:30:11.430 --> 02:30:13.309
a New York Post article that kind of said it

02:30:13.309 --> 02:30:18.209
was real. But there are plans to do something

02:30:18.209 --> 02:30:18.809
along those lines. Well, I was going to say,

02:30:18.809 --> 02:30:20.569
which is a little weirder. It says at the bottom,

02:30:20.569 --> 02:30:23.090
this is getting confused with a pregnancy robot

02:30:23.090 --> 02:30:26.610
that was announced in China in 2025. This, though,

02:30:26.629 --> 02:30:30.149
apparently also is not real. The pregnancy robot

02:30:30.149 --> 02:30:33.170
is not real? Yeah. They named a scientist that

02:30:33.170 --> 02:30:35.770
was working on it. It's not a real person. Look

02:30:35.770 --> 02:30:37.829
at that. That's so great. The company working

02:30:37.829 --> 02:30:40.950
on it. Nonetheless. They are working on artificial

02:30:40.950 --> 02:30:46.809
wombs. We're going to come out. So see if you

02:30:46.809 --> 02:30:49.530
can find the, since you're so good at Googling

02:30:49.530 --> 02:30:53.069
or whatever you're doing. See if you can find

02:30:53.069 --> 02:30:57.850
the images of this artificial womb, and I believe

02:30:57.850 --> 02:31:00.809
it's a lamb. Yeah, no, we've seen the lamb before,

02:31:00.889 --> 02:31:03.110
but I'm just saying that the people thing. The

02:31:03.110 --> 02:31:05.190
factory thing with people. Oh, well, that was

02:31:05.190 --> 02:31:07.129
obviously AI. No, no, it's the same, but not

02:31:07.129 --> 02:31:09.129
that it wasn't AI. It wasn't even a real company

02:31:09.129 --> 02:31:11.649
that was doing it. It's synthetic images. I don't

02:31:11.649 --> 02:31:13.250
want to give out fake news. That's all. Good.

02:31:13.469 --> 02:31:17.459
Well, God forbid. We might get banned. Robert,

02:31:17.500 --> 02:31:19.360
thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate

02:31:19.360 --> 02:31:21.879
it. And it was nice for you to come back under

02:31:21.879 --> 02:31:25.540
less hostile terms in the world. Well, it wasn't

02:31:25.540 --> 02:31:30.239
hostile then. No, but I think your message was

02:31:30.239 --> 02:31:34.319
a lot more hostile in the way it was received.

02:31:35.059 --> 02:31:38.540
You were received in a hostile way. I don't think

02:31:38.540 --> 02:31:40.879
this one's going to be hostile. I think pretty

02:31:40.879 --> 02:31:43.719
much everything that you said, most people are

02:31:43.719 --> 02:31:45.799
aware of now. And then the other things that

02:31:45.799 --> 02:31:48.260
you're saying. They're not far -fetched at all.

02:31:48.579 --> 02:31:51.159
And I think there's a lot more people that are

02:31:51.159 --> 02:31:54.719
more open to receiving information like that

02:31:54.719 --> 02:31:58.079
now than ever before. And some of it can be attributed

02:31:58.079 --> 02:32:02.040
to you. That's kind. Let's say to the community.

02:32:02.600 --> 02:32:06.940
Yeah, sure. And of which I'm a vehicle, have

02:32:06.940 --> 02:32:10.780
been at times. A lot of the stuff that I shared

02:32:10.780 --> 02:32:14.510
with you back then. was the consequence of a

02:32:14.510 --> 02:32:18.250
community that I was embedded in, of other physicians

02:32:18.250 --> 02:32:21.370
and scientists, many of whom were primary care

02:32:21.370 --> 02:32:25.590
practitioners. And I was attending weekly meetings

02:32:25.590 --> 02:32:29.329
with these people. And I had frontline knowledge

02:32:29.329 --> 02:32:32.129
of what they were seeing and experiencing. And

02:32:32.129 --> 02:32:35.110
I had frontline knowledge of the physicians that

02:32:35.110 --> 02:32:38.250
I was collaborating with at DITRA, of what they

02:32:38.250 --> 02:32:41.229
were experiencing. I was never managing COVID

02:32:41.229 --> 02:32:45.190
patients except myself. But I knew what others

02:32:45.190 --> 02:32:49.030
were experiencing. And you gave me an opportunity

02:32:49.030 --> 02:32:54.120
to share their voice through me. And I thank

02:32:54.120 --> 02:32:57.079
you for that. It was a moment in time, and I

02:32:57.079 --> 02:33:00.860
think we did good. But by God, they came at us.

02:33:00.940 --> 02:33:03.979
It was wild. Well, thank you, sir. Thank you

02:33:03.979 --> 02:33:05.360
very much. I really appreciate you being here.

02:33:05.659 --> 02:33:07.899
It was a lot of fun. All right. Bye, everybody.