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"Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2448. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Free Speech Advocacy, Contemporary Satire, and Social Media Behavioral Ethics."
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan

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Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by

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night, all day. Yes. And Drew. Hello. Good to

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see you, brother. Good to see you too. It has

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been, you said, six years almost to the day.

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Almost to the day. The last time. Lots changed.

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Right before everything went crazy. That's it.

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Right before. Yeah, the whole world sort of shifted

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after that. Because everything went kooky around

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March, right? Yeah, so it was February 2020 and

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then... Then we have COVID and then we have,

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you know, we've had Trump in between that. We

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have BLM. That summer of 2020, everything just

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exploded. Yeah. Yeah. And then everything shifted.

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And then you wrote a book. It's called The End

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of Woke, How the Culture War Went Too Far and

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What to Expect from the Counter -Revolution.

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Isn't that how it always goes, though? It goes

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like we go too far and then we overcorrect and

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we become Nazis. That's it. Exactly. Or it's

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the opposite. We go socialist. It's a big pendulum.

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I get that. It sort of goes back and forth. I

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mean, I was trying to, in that book, I'm trying

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to make the point that what Woke was, was like

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a kind of the latest manifestation of a kind

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of innate authoritarian impulse. I think human

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beings are by default quite inclined towards

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just shutting people up if they don't like them.

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Yeah. Just imposing their authority. And so woke,

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well, I mean, a lot of people are annoyed that

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I've called it the end of work. I'm not saying

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it's all over. Let's just go home. Forget about

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it. It's still going on. But the point about

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it is, is that in its current manifestation,

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things are changing now so rapidly. We are moving

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into some sort of new phase. And that authoritarianism,

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which we've associated with the left, might come

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up from the right. It could come up from anywhere.

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It's what you say about the pendulum. So you

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just have to be kind of vigilant about it. I

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don't think we were vigilant. I think that's

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why woke happened. We weren't vigilant against

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this prospect that authoritarianism could emerge

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in what we thought was a free society. Well,

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authoritarianism, it snuck in through a sheep

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costume. Yeah, a wolf in a sheep's costume. Yeah,

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it was a costume of... Being more inclusive,

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being more open -minded, being a better society,

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being kinder. It led to child trans surgeries.

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It led to chaos. It led to a lot of really fucking

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freaky things that you would have never expected.

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People saying that the First Amendment's not

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important. What's more important is protecting

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people. Well, that was the key, wasn't it? The

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point was that the way it worked was that it

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was gulling people through language that sounded

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really sweet and kittenish and fluffy. You know,

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things like equity. Well, that sounds a lot like

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equality, doesn't it? Right. It doesn't mean

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equality. It means treating people unequally

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to ensure equal outcomes according to group identity.

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That's a very different thing. You say you're

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talking about let's make everything inclusive.

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But what you really mean is let's exclude anyone

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who disagrees with what we've got to say. So

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you're using language to mean the exact opposite.

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They say gender affirming care. Do they mean

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that? Or do they mean affirming what is effectively

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a pseudoscientific belief among vulnerable people?

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So it's all about misusing language because most

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people think, or I like to think, are pretty

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decent. Most people want to be kind and want

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to be fair. And when you hear these activists

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saying, be kind, be compassionate, or else, right?

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You know, you kind of think, okay, well, maybe

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their intentions are good, but also they're pretty

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scary. I mean, there was a weird thing with the

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woke thing, which was that on the one hand, it

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proclaimed to be this sort of great, virtuous,

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kind, progressive, right side of history. How

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often did you hear that phrase? And at the same

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time, they're like dangerous dogs. You're like,

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I better not piss them off. I better not say

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the wrong thing in the workplace because they'll

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destroy you. Well, I always find that the most

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preposterous the idea is and the least capable

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it is. to stand up to scrutiny, the more violent

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the enforcement of that idea will be because

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you cannot combat that. You can't defend that

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idea with logic, so you have to defend it with

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fear and force and just shouting people down,

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and that's what we saw. It's a natural impulse

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of human beings. Absolutely. When you're arguing

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with a kid, when you're a kid and you're arguing

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with a kid and you say something, you don't even

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know you. You shut the fuck up. It starts scaring

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you. So why is it, though, that... Some countries

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and some societies seem to protect themselves

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better than others against that impulse. And

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I feel at the moment that the UK is kind of failing

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where America is to a degree succeed, not obviously

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in all ways, but when it comes to the idea of

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freedom and free speech, I think UK has pretty

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fallen to the woke insistence that you need to

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control people's language. So that you can create

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this perfect society, which can never come anyway.

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Well, I think it's been co -opted. I think whatever

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organic version of that emerges naturally from

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society where there's an overcorrection, I think

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in the UK, because you guys don't have free speech

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laws, because it's just different over there,

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you can get away with a lot of crazy shit. First

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of all, we should explain what we're talking

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about. More than 12 ,000 people have been arrested.

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in the UK in the past year for social media posts.

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And if you read some of those social media posts,

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they're not even remotely terrifying. It's not

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like I'm going to grab a knife and go cut the

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head off of every immigrant I see. Like, hey,

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buddy, maybe we should lock this guy up and evaluate

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him. He sounds like a crazy person. Like, no,

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the immigrants are coming into this fucking country

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and creating all this crime. knock on the door,

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you're going to jail. I worry that Americans

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think we're mad sometimes. We do. Yeah, do you?

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We do now, yeah. We think you've lost it. Yeah.

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We also think something happened where your leaders

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are intentionally trying to tank your country.

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It seems like they're trying to bring in as many

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migrants as possible. cater to them, not to the

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British people, and do it openly so that everyone

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knows what they're doing and then create chaos

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on the streets because of it. Yeah, I mean, people

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have a phrase for that, anarcho -tyranny, you

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know, where you punish people who aren't breaking

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the law, but you protect those who are. And I

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think with the, I mean, I don't know the extent

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that Americans know the, I mean, the stat you

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quoted, that came from the Times newspaper in

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London, which had a freedom of information request

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to the police, found out that it's 12 ,000 a

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year. On average. So that's like 30 a day, not

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just being investigated or looked into, but being

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arrested. But over the last few years only, if

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you go back, it's only like 1 ,000 or 500. It

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was 3 ,000 last time we spoke, back in 2020.

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Was it really a year? It was. Back then? Yeah.

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Oh, my God. So we already had that problem. I

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mean, we already didn't know it was that many.

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That's crazy. Even back then? It was already

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really high. I mean, we had stuff like the old

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stories of like, there was that guy in 2010 who

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made a joke online about he was at. Doncaster

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Airport in the UK. He said, oh, if this queue

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doesn't hurry up, I'm going to blow up the airport.

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Just a stupid, funny tweet. He went all the way

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to court. That was a full trial. So these laws,

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and I think what happens with this stuff is people

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don't realise how long this has been embedded

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in the UK. We have hate speech laws that are

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encoded in a number of different legislations.

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We have a thing called the Public Order Act.

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We have a thing called Malicious Communications

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Act. That's from 1988. We have the Communications

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Act from 2003. And all of these things criminalize.

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I tell you, I kid you not. The language in the

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statute books is if it's grossly offensive, that's

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the phrase. If you post something that is grossly

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offensive, you can go to court, you can be prosecuted.

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But, you know, I find subjective. Well, that's

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it. What does that even mean? I find laws against

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free speech to be grossly offensive. So should

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the British state be arrested? I don't know.

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And there's one, I think it's in the Malicious

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Communications Act, where it talks about needless

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anxiety, causing needless anxiety can get you

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arrested. And you think that's not a thing. I

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can give you a specific example of that. Do you

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smoke cigars? I have once, my friend Winston

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Marshall. Do you want one? I worry that if I

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try it, I'll cough and I'll look really wimpish

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and pathetic. And it won't be good for your arguments?

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It will backfire. I tell you, it'll undermine

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everything. It'd be like I'm sitting here with

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a paper hat on at Christmas, undermining all

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of my key points. Right. I like the flavour and

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I like being around smokers because my grandmother

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used to chain smoke around me. Oh boy. Well,

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she's Northern Irish. It's the way they do. She

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used to give me whiskey when I was three to calm

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me down. Oh, wow. It's that sort of family. That's

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an old thing they used to do with kids. They

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just put it in their babies. They put it in their

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mouth. It worked. Like they would dip their finger

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in whiskey and rub it on the inside of a kid's

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mouth. If you're struggling with a child, get

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it drunk. That's how you do it. It's old Northern

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Irish wisdom. I don't think you should scoff

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at it. It's a good thing. But I'll be more than

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happy to. It's grossly offensive. It's grossly

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offensive. The example I was going to give was

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this guy called Darren Brady. And this sounds

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made up. And whenever I tell people this, it

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sounds made up. He posted a meme. I don't know

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if you saw this meme where it was the four progress

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pride flags. You know, it's got the crazy triangles

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and stuff in it. You put them all together and

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become a swastika. Exactly that. Right. And that

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was going everywhere. And he posted it. And there's

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a video of him being arrested, put in handcuffs.

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He's an army veteran, by the way. Right. Put

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in handcuffs by the police. And the policeman

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says in the video, you caused someone anxiety.

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So the actual language from the law is being

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used for this rearrangement of the – and you

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know what? That's quite a good satirical point

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that he was making. It wasn't even his meme.

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He was just retweeting a meme. But even if it

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was some horrible offensive thing, who cares?

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How is that offensive? Well, I guess – I mean,

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well, you can find – that's the problem. You

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can find anything offensive. You can find anything

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grossly offensive if you're extremely sensitive.

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You could. But wasn't there a point to that?

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I mean, he was kind of saying that the LGBTQIA

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plus movement has become quite authoritarian.

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Yeah. He's not saying they're actual Nazis. And

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he's saying, oh, isn't it quite funny that when

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you put them together, it looks like a swastika.

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The idea that you get handcuffed for that. Especially

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for a retweet. That's crazy. That's crazy. It's

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retweets. It's tweets. It's posts. We've had

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memes are the big ones. So there was a guy called

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Lee Joseph Dunn who went to prison for eight

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weeks. That was last year, I think, for three

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memes that he posted. Eight weeks. Eight weeks

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in prison. Again, I'll tell you what the most

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offensive of the three memes was. And you can

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tell me whether you think it was worth prison

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time. He put a picture of some immigrants. With

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knives. And underneath it said, coming to a town

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near you. And that was it. So I don't know if

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you think that's worth prison time. That's the

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most offensive one? Of the three, that's the

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most. What's the least offensive one? I can't

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remember what the other two were. Because I remember

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I looked at them. I thought, well, that's not

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even worth. That's not even worth thinking about.

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But this one was the one that really. Because

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they say in England, you're stirring up hatred

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against minorities through the spreading of the

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meme. Right. You know, but that's. Clearly not

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sufficient, you know. And I think in the US you

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have far more protections. I wonder whether it's

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to do with the fact that in the US you have the

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First Amendment. So you have something codified

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that says you can say what you want. We've never

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had that. It's very important and it didn't seem

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important 20 years ago or 30 years ago because

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no one ever looked at England as being that kind

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of a country that would just put people – well,

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obviously, this was all pre -social media. Yeah,

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yeah. And England has always been a fairly polite

00:11:33.629 --> 00:11:38.149
society. Yes. But the thing is like now pub talk

00:11:38.149 --> 00:11:40.730
has become illegal, right? Yeah. Like if you

00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:43.490
say something offensive in a pub, you're subject

00:11:43.490 --> 00:11:45.490
to be arrested and they're asking people to turn

00:11:45.490 --> 00:11:47.590
people in. There's a thing called the banter

00:11:47.590 --> 00:11:50.519
ban. which the Labour government was trying to

00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:54.279
put in. Here's the logic of the banter ban. I've

00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:55.600
forgotten about this, but now you've mentioned

00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.080
it. They wanted to introduce this law so that,

00:11:58.120 --> 00:11:59.960
for instance, if you're working in a bar or a

00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:02.539
pub and you overhear someone who says something

00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:04.639
against your protected characteristic, say you're

00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.340
a gay barman and someone says, oh, I don't like

00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:09.519
the gays or something, and you overhear it, your

00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.980
employer has a duty to protect you from that

00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:14.259
kind of hate speech, that kind of harm. So therefore,

00:12:14.379 --> 00:12:17.039
there's going to be a blanket ban. on certain

00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.779
kinds of speech within the pub, right? I would

00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:22.419
say the guy who's eavesdropping, he's the problem,

00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:23.940
right? You shouldn't be listening in on other

00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:26.899
people's conversations. So that's a real thing.

00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.360
And I guess it all comes down to this view, which

00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.059
I think is completely wrong, that words and violence

00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:36.620
are the same thing, that words can create a more

00:12:36.620 --> 00:12:38.840
violent society, that there's a direct causal

00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.919
link between the stuff that people say and the

00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.220
stuff that people say online to how people behave

00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.159
in the real world. And I think you guys have

00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:46.620
got it right. Because you've got the Brandenburg

00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:49.519
test, you know, the test for incitement to violence

00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.639
in the US. No, what is that? It's basically a

00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.340
test that was established, I think, back in the

00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:57.840
60s. It was a KKK leader called Clarence Brandenburg

00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.500
who was prosecuted for incitement to violence.

00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:02.700
And the test that was established since that

00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:05.919
precedent was that any words that can be convicted

00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:07.899
for incitement to violence, they have to be intended

00:13:07.899 --> 00:13:10.659
to cause violence, likely to cause violence,

00:13:10.779 --> 00:13:13.730
and the violence must be imminent. And if you

00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:16.490
satisfy that threshold, you can be prosecuted

00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:18.330
in the US for incitement to violence. So it'd

00:13:18.330 --> 00:13:20.370
be like kind of imagine a demagogue surrounded

00:13:20.370 --> 00:13:22.750
by all his fans, whipping up a frenzy and then

00:13:22.750 --> 00:13:24.269
pointing to a guy on the front row and saying,

00:13:24.350 --> 00:13:27.250
kill him now. That would qualify for the Brandenburg

00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:30.389
test. But in the UK, because we don't have that

00:13:30.389 --> 00:13:33.830
test, all we've got is whether people found it

00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:36.610
offensive. That's the difference of the threshold.

00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:38.750
So it's a massive difference between what the

00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:41.509
US has and what the UK has. Massive. It's insane.

00:13:41.590 --> 00:13:44.500
I mean... To give the most obvious recent example,

00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:46.299
because I don't know if people know about this,

00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.720
there's a woman called Lucy Connolly in the UK.

00:13:49.059 --> 00:13:50.980
I don't know if this was reported over here at

00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:53.019
all. Do you remember we had all these riots last

00:13:53.019 --> 00:13:56.259
year during the summer against hotels which were

00:13:56.259 --> 00:13:58.720
housing asylum seekers and people were setting

00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.659
fire to them? There were genuinely racist stuff

00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:03.899
going on during those riots. And this was off

00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:06.580
the back of a guy who'd murdered a bunch of little

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:09.100
girls in a dance class. And there were rumours

00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:10.700
going around that this was an asylum seeker,

00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.419
right? And this one woman, a mother who'd lost

00:14:13.419 --> 00:14:15.379
her daughter, very sensitive about the idea of

00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:17.659
Lucy Connolly. She's very sensitive about the

00:14:17.659 --> 00:14:21.179
idea of loss of kids. She tweeted in a fit of

00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:23.879
anger, go and burn down all the hotels for all

00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:27.100
I care. If that makes me racist, so be it. And

00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:28.279
take the government with you. Something like

00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.200
that. And she deleted it within a couple of hours.

00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:32.919
She went out, walked a dog. She deleted it. She

00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:34.980
thought, that's not me. That's not who I am.

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.769
Deleted it. Police came, went to court. sentenced

00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:43.250
to 31 months in prison for that swiftly deleted

00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:46.850
tweet, and she served over a year. Oh, my God.

00:14:47.230 --> 00:14:49.549
Now, I'm not saying the tweet was nice, right?

00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:51.870
The tweet was a horrible tweet, and she says

00:14:51.870 --> 00:14:53.169
it was a horrible tweet. That's why she deleted

00:14:53.169 --> 00:14:55.769
it. But because we don't have that Brandenburg

00:14:55.769 --> 00:14:57.110
test, we don't have a test for incitement to

00:14:57.110 --> 00:14:59.950
violence, because the key is that tweet, there

00:14:59.950 --> 00:15:01.669
was no way it could have... She was a nobody.

00:15:01.789 --> 00:15:03.110
You know, she wasn't someone with influence.

00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:07.360
She didn't have many followers. No one was going

00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.379
to read that and go and act upon it. And if they

00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:14.059
did, that would be on them, right? Because this

00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.179
is a myth. This myth that people act on cue to

00:15:16.179 --> 00:15:19.600
what they read online isn't real. It influences

00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:25.019
people for sure. But at what point are you required

00:15:25.019 --> 00:15:28.299
to have sovereignty over your own mind and your

00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:30.730
own actions? Yeah. Well, I think what it does

00:15:30.730 --> 00:15:32.870
is it raises the temperature, particularly when

00:15:32.870 --> 00:15:35.529
political leaders do it. Right. But when political.

00:15:35.590 --> 00:15:37.789
But my point is, like, it's not going to incite

00:15:37.789 --> 00:15:40.330
you to violence. It's not going to incite me

00:15:40.330 --> 00:15:43.370
to violence. So who are we talking about? This

00:15:43.370 --> 00:15:45.570
is part of the thing is like they're protecting

00:15:45.570 --> 00:15:48.700
the dumbest members of society. This is like

00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:52.620
the thing about banning crazy talk online. If

00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:55.200
you're talking about witches or whatever it is,

00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.960
flat earth. We have to stop misinformation. From

00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.200
who? It's not working on you, right? You don't

00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.600
believe it. So who are we protecting? We're protecting

00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:06.879
the dumbest people? Also, aren't you kind of

00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.899
letting them off? If someone goes and commits

00:16:08.899 --> 00:16:10.759
an act of violence and said, oh, I did it because

00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:12.759
someone told me to do it, aren't you kind of

00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.080
letting them off the hook? Right, exactly. And

00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.299
sort of displacing the blame. You know, it's

00:16:17.299 --> 00:16:20.580
like that guy who shot John Lennon who said Catcher

00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:23.460
in the Rye made him do it. Are we now blaming

00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.659
J .D. Salinger for the murder of John Lennon?

00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:27.139
It was John Lennon, wasn't it? I think he did.

00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:31.360
I think the safest approach is to say people

00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.399
are responsible for their own actions. I think

00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:35.820
the best that you could say is when political

00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:39.220
leaders and people with clout... say things like

00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:40.820
that it's sort of it's say you know it's fine

00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:42.600
to go out and commit violence i think what they

00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.580
do is they create a kind of imprimatur of approval

00:16:45.580 --> 00:16:48.159
they create this kind of sense that if you do

00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:50.440
it the people in charge will have your back if

00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:52.799
you do it it's okay well this was the argument

00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.919
with trump for january 6th right and that's why

00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.139
the bbc edited his speech to make it look as

00:16:59.139 --> 00:17:01.000
if that's what he was saying do you see you saw

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.659
that clip oh my god it's fucking crazy i mean

00:17:04.059 --> 00:17:05.980
I've been saying for a long time the BBC has

00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:08.119
a real like what I will say in the BBC's defense

00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:10.859
is they've always been pretty good at being party

00:17:10.859 --> 00:17:14.539
politically neutral. Like they will interrogate

00:17:14.539 --> 00:17:16.200
someone in the right and someone in the left

00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.920
in a pretty neutral way. They don't. I think

00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.400
they do pretty good. I know people will be annoyed

00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.160
at me for saying that, but I think they do. But

00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.160
I think in terms of the ideology, the woke ideology,

00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:26.819
they got captured. They have a thing at the BBC

00:17:26.819 --> 00:17:28.740
called the LGBT desk, or they had it up until

00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:32.099
recently, which could veto any news story, which

00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:34.160
meant that any story that was slightly critical

00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.619
of trans activism or anything like that just

00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:39.259
didn't get reported. So I'm not surprised that

00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:42.259
the BBC gave them veto power. They give them

00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:44.319
veto power. Yeah, that's crazy. This all came

00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.279
out in a report, quite a recent report just a

00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:47.420
few months ago, which led to the resignation

00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:49.920
of Tim David, the director general. And he resigned

00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.349
ostensibly because of that Trump. Which, by the

00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:54.769
way, that wasn't the first time they did it.

00:17:54.829 --> 00:17:57.990
There was another clip about a year before in

00:17:57.990 --> 00:17:59.450
a different program that did the same thing.

00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:03.190
Took the clip, re -edited it, and made it look

00:18:03.190 --> 00:18:04.890
like he had said something he absolutely had

00:18:04.890 --> 00:18:08.410
not said. So I think the BBC quite obviously

00:18:08.410 --> 00:18:11.630
has an ideological bias, if not a party political

00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:14.890
bias. But that's more than a bias. It's misleading,

00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:18.470
right? It's completely deceptive. You're editing

00:18:18.470 --> 00:18:22.849
something and they took out a giant chunk of

00:18:22.849 --> 00:18:25.329
his speech. This episode is brought to you by

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how many minutes it was. They left like 45 minutes

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or something. Something crazy like that. It made

00:19:33.049 --> 00:19:35.269
him look like he was saying, go and commit the

00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:40.210
riot. And instead, he was in tongue -in -cheek

00:19:40.210 --> 00:19:43.230
talking about the very fine senator, that they're

00:19:43.230 --> 00:19:45.710
doing a great job, the senators and congresspeople,

00:19:46.049 --> 00:19:49.369
and all this other stuff. And then said, you

00:19:49.369 --> 00:19:51.049
have to fight like hell to keep your country.

00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:53.849
I mean, no offense, but... You can find daft

00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:55.529
stuff that Trump says pretty easily, right? You

00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:59.029
don't need to edit that stuff down. Well, it's

00:19:59.029 --> 00:20:02.089
because they had an opportunity to, like what

00:20:02.089 --> 00:20:03.890
we were saying before earlier, we were talking

00:20:03.890 --> 00:20:06.190
before the show, you can put out a narrative

00:20:06.190 --> 00:20:09.150
and it doesn't have to be true. And then that's

00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:10.950
the one that sticks. So that's the one that spreads

00:20:10.950 --> 00:20:14.769
wide. And then when all these years later, they

00:20:14.769 --> 00:20:18.309
have to have this. you know, trial and everybody

00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:20.589
finds out it's not true. But the damage is done.

00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:22.170
I mean, that's what they did with Trump during

00:20:22.170 --> 00:20:25.029
the whole Steele dossier. Yeah. You know, the

00:20:25.029 --> 00:20:28.549
hookers and peeing on people and all that crazy

00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:30.029
shit. Remember that? I remember the idea that

00:20:30.029 --> 00:20:32.990
he'd hired hookers to urinate on the bed that

00:20:32.990 --> 00:20:35.369
was once occupied by the Obamas. Something along

00:20:35.369 --> 00:20:37.190
those lines. The reason I didn't believe that

00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:38.589
is I don't think Trump is that avant -garde.

00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:40.769
I don't think he's that creative. Like, if he'd

00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:42.029
have come up with that, I'd have been actually

00:20:42.029 --> 00:20:44.029
applauding that. That's kind of amazing. But

00:20:44.029 --> 00:20:45.390
obviously he didn't do that. But that's not even

00:20:45.390 --> 00:20:47.190
something to applaud. That just sounds completely

00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:49.049
ridiculous. It's like a work of art. Getting

00:20:49.049 --> 00:20:51.509
urination on the bed of your enemy through the

00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:52.990
medium of prostitution. I think that's kind of

00:20:52.990 --> 00:20:54.589
an artistic thing to do. But I don't think he

00:20:54.589 --> 00:20:56.329
did it. He obviously didn't do it. None of it's

00:20:56.329 --> 00:20:59.230
true. Right. But isn't that weird that that in

00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:00.589
particular, that's like something I don't think

00:21:00.589 --> 00:21:02.910
anyone seriously could believe. Well, there's

00:21:02.910 --> 00:21:04.869
plenty of people that believed it. Really? Yeah,

00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:06.769
they don't have to believe it. They just say

00:21:06.769 --> 00:21:09.710
it. Like, that was the whole point about, you

00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:14.349
know, the trial where he got arrested and convicted

00:21:14.349 --> 00:21:19.130
of 34 counts that are a felony, none of which

00:21:19.130 --> 00:21:21.329
are actually a felony. That's all bookkeeping

00:21:21.329 --> 00:21:24.930
deception. That was the paying off of the girl.

00:21:25.089 --> 00:21:28.309
Yes. So now you can say he's a convicted felon.

00:21:28.329 --> 00:21:31.539
You can just say that. And even though all those

00:21:31.539 --> 00:21:34.279
counts were misdemeanors, all of them had passed

00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.140
the statute of limitations. But for some reason,

00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.619
through no legal way that anybody could ever

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:44.539
really honestly explain, they decided to label

00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:46.380
it a felony. And it was just to turn them into

00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:49.920
a felon. I saw even left -leaning anti -Trump

00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.359
lawyers saying this is not how the law should

00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.859
work. You can't artificially elevate a misdemeanor

00:21:53.859 --> 00:21:55.680
to a felony outside the statute of limitations.

00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.650
It's crazy. If you do that, they're going to

00:21:58.650 --> 00:22:00.829
do that to you. It's like we're going to give

00:22:00.829 --> 00:22:03.150
that kind of power to the Republicans. And now

00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:04.730
when they're in office, they're going to start

00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:06.930
doing things like that. Are we crazy? Well, also,

00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:09.190
this really bothers me. One of the key things

00:22:09.190 --> 00:22:11.579
that I think has happened. over the past few

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:13.400
years is this complete lack of fealty to the

00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.380
truth from both sides. It's whatever is convenient

00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:18.279
matters more, a complete lack of intellectual

00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.920
curiosity, a complete lack of investigating and

00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.859
looking and thoroughly checking. And by the way,

00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:26.299
with the BBC, that really matters because unlike

00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:29.160
the news media here, which can be as partisan

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.380
as it likes, the BBC is the state broadcaster.

00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.680
It's got a responsibility by charter to not be,

00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.130
you know, to be... balance to be even -handed,

00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:39.789
and it completely failed. And I saw today, just

00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:42.210
this morning, some people, you know, we've got

00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:43.910
all the mania about the Epstein files at the

00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:47.029
moment. Some activists have now said J .K. Rowling

00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:51.710
once invited... to the opening of her play never

00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:53.869
happened. But because there's a furore about

00:22:53.869 --> 00:22:55.289
Epstein at the moment, they're just saying it

00:22:55.289 --> 00:22:57.549
happened. It gets spread all over the place.

00:22:57.730 --> 00:22:58.990
That's all you have to do. And that's all you

00:22:58.990 --> 00:23:02.650
have to do. And then that gets repeated. Oh,

00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:04.529
didn't this happen? I know. Like what you say

00:23:04.529 --> 00:23:05.910
about Trump is right. I always hear that he's

00:23:05.910 --> 00:23:07.309
a convicted felon. He's a convicted felon. Well,

00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:10.849
why don't you pause for a minute and assess whether

00:23:10.849 --> 00:23:12.930
or not that conviction is sound or whether it

00:23:12.930 --> 00:23:14.650
was politically motivated or how helpful that

00:23:14.650 --> 00:23:18.039
is. But like you say, Also, it's like it's such

00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:20.609
a dangerous precedent to set. It's terrible.

00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:23.849
Like if you do that – look, right now in the

00:23:23.849 --> 00:23:27.230
United States, the media predominantly leans

00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:30.269
left except for Fox News, the mainstream large

00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:33.490
-scale media. I guess CBS is probably going to

00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:36.369
lean more right now. It seems like it's in the

00:23:36.369 --> 00:23:38.769
process of that. But for the most part, when

00:23:38.769 --> 00:23:41.650
you watch CNN, if you watch MSNBC, if you watch

00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:44.250
the mainstream news, it's very left -leaning.

00:23:44.609 --> 00:23:48.890
But if the fucking – if right -wing people started

00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:52.839
– It was like more common for the news to be

00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:55.500
right -leaning, and then they started doing the

00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:57.960
exact same thing about a left -leaning candidate.

00:23:58.420 --> 00:24:02.180
This is so dangerous. And the idea that the left

00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:04.299
doesn't recognize that, which are the people

00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:06.839
that have always been in support of free speech.

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.539
It's never been a right -wing thing to support

00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:12.059
free speech until now. It's always been a left

00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:14.299
-wing thing. When I was a kid, it was famously

00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:18.400
the case of the ADL. defending Nazis having the

00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.619
right to protest and saying, look, we think what

00:24:20.619 --> 00:24:23.019
they're saying is abhorrent, but it's very important

00:24:23.019 --> 00:24:25.319
that you get the right to say whatever you feel.

00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:28.000
And then the way to combat that is with much

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.500
better, more concise speech that's much more

00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:32.819
logical and makes sense. And this is what you

00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:36.119
do. This is what debate is for. We've always

00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.980
known this. Yeah, but I mean, I agree. I'm so

00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:40.960
dispirited by that, that very thing that you've

00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.259
identified that the left used to be about this.

00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:45.160
The left used to be all about. I mean, that example

00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:47.240
you mentioned of Skokie, wasn't it, in Chicago,

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.380
the Nazis marching through Skokie and the ACLU

00:24:50.380 --> 00:24:52.740
saying, you know, we're defending this. There

00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:55.019
was a book by a guy called Aya Nea, who was the

00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:56.920
head of the ACLU, called Defending My Enemy.

00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.299
Yeah, it wasn't the ACLU. It was the ACLU. And

00:24:59.299 --> 00:25:03.319
he was saying, you know, he's Jewish. He's got

00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:05.960
family members who died in the Holocaust. But

00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:07.880
he's writing a book saying, I'm defending neo

00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:09.660
-Nazis' right to free speech, not because I support

00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:11.740
them, but because I don't. And I want to defend

00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.619
the principle whereby I can. tackle them and

00:25:14.619 --> 00:25:16.799
that's speech right so that in other words the

00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.119
principle is so much bigger i mean the thing

00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.940
that i think has been lost and now by the way

00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:22.980
the aclu complete about turn i mean there was

00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:25.460
a lawyer for the aclu tweeting about how he wanted

00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:27.740
abigail schreier's book banned and he said this

00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:30.059
is the hill i will die on you know that's a guy

00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.000
called chase or was it a guy i think it's a trans

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.579
activist called chase something i can't remember

00:25:33.579 --> 00:25:35.940
anyway but but the point is how far have you

00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:38.200
fallen when it comes to these free speech issues

00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:41.160
left or right it's nothing to do with it it should

00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:43.740
be about this principle of It's not whether you

00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:45.799
agree with what they're saying and the substance

00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:47.500
of what they're saying. It's whether you want

00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:49.740
the principle intact. And that principle applies

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:51.839
to us all. The very same principle that allows

00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.059
the Nazis to say all their crazy stuff is the

00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.799
principle that allows us to challenge it, to

00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.460
tackle it. Well, it's a very short -term win.

00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.960
It's basically they're playing chess and they

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.500
decided, I want that rook no matter what. And

00:26:05.500 --> 00:26:07.079
then they just sacrificed their queen. Like,

00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:09.339
look what you've done. Look what you've done

00:26:09.339 --> 00:26:11.680
for this short -term victory. You're essentially...

00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:14.940
tanking civilization for a decade where we have

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:19.019
to sort this out and let the ship wash itself

00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:22.619
back and forth until it rights. And how do you

00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:24.339
ensure that it's not going to happen to you?

00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.579
I think about that. There was a National Conservative

00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:28.339
Conference in Brussels about a year and a half

00:26:28.339 --> 00:26:30.900
ago. The local mayor said, I don't like this.

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:33.380
And he had the police rush it, shut it down.

00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:35.480
And you had mainstream right -wing figures like

00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.380
Nigel Farage, Swala Braverman. How do they not

00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:40.250
think? Hang on a minute. If we establish that

00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:42.109
precedent where you can just shut down your political

00:26:42.109 --> 00:26:44.289
opponents through the use of police force, how

00:26:44.289 --> 00:26:46.539
will that not rebound on me? How would that not

00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:48.819
happen to us? Well, this is the argument that

00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:50.460
they're using right now for Trump going after

00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:52.140
his political opponents. Right, right. Because

00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:53.920
they opened that Pandora's box, right? You guys

00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.380
did that with him. Yeah. And everybody was saying

00:26:57.380 --> 00:27:00.079
how damn dangerous it is. You can't fucking do

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.660
that. Even if you hate the guy. If there's a

00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:05.720
real crime that you can get someone, but when

00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:08.799
you take a crime like the bookkeeping stuff and

00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.220
turn it into a felony that could put this man

00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:13.299
in jail for the rest of his life for doing something

00:27:13.299 --> 00:27:16.109
that turns out to be legal. and pay people to

00:27:16.109 --> 00:27:19.789
shut up. And this is so, it's just, it's so weird

00:27:19.789 --> 00:27:23.450
that people for this short -term gain are willing

00:27:23.450 --> 00:27:26.569
to tank, which is essentially this whole structure

00:27:26.569 --> 00:27:29.230
of our civilization that allows free discourse.

00:27:29.410 --> 00:27:32.450
You need it. It's so important. It's so important

00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:34.950
to be able to communicate and talk. If podcasts

00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:38.230
didn't exist, there was no way to talk through

00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:42.559
ideas. Other than mainstream news, we would still

00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:46.740
be stuck in some very bizarre 1990s or 1980s

00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:49.779
narrative about how the world works. Yeah. We

00:27:49.779 --> 00:27:52.279
would have real problems. We'd have real problems

00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:55.299
if there wasn't independent journalism like on

00:27:55.299 --> 00:27:58.480
Twitter and on wherever they can post. Yeah.

00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:00.700
So why don't they get it? I mean. We've had people

00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.420
in left -leaning papers in the UK calling for

00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:05.339
Elon Musk to be arrested because he's allowing

00:28:05.339 --> 00:28:07.500
free speech on X or Twitter or whatever you want

00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.359
to call it. Well, their offices got raided today

00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.819
in some country. There was a country where X's

00:28:13.819 --> 00:28:18.740
offices got raided. I think one of the things

00:28:18.740 --> 00:28:23.059
was they somehow or another let – I think something

00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:25.859
had to do with child pornography. Where was that?

00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:29.630
France? France. Fresh investigation into grok

00:28:29.630 --> 00:28:32.549
and what is it? What are they? Oh, so, you know

00:28:32.549 --> 00:28:34.910
what? This is serious Yeah, suspected offenses

00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:38.269
including unlawful data extraction and complicity

00:28:38.269 --> 00:28:41.329
in the possession of child pornography Yeah,

00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:42.609
but that's not what this is about. This is because

00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:46.230
people have been misusing grok to like put bikinis

00:28:46.230 --> 00:28:49.750
on women They like or even in a few cases creating

00:28:49.750 --> 00:28:52.359
child child sex you can do wait a minute you

00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.359
can't create child pornography i don't think

00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.839
no or at least i think that's very much been

00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:58.640
shut down and safeguarded right i think that's

00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:00.990
what's happened Mean unless there's like some

00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:03.329
sort of a loophole where you could get it to

00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:05.769
do it among potential crimes It said it would

00:29:05.769 --> 00:29:08.009
investigate where complicity and possession or

00:29:08.009 --> 00:29:10.109
organized distribution of images of children

00:29:10.109 --> 00:29:13.049
of a pornographic nature Infringement of people's

00:29:13.049 --> 00:29:15.849
image rights with sexual deep fakes. Okay, the

00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:18.309
sexual deep fakes Yeah, so sexual deep flakes

00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:20.890
is like if you put Hillary Clinton in a bikini

00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:23.930
and made her hot That's a sexual deep fake. Okay.

00:29:24.509 --> 00:29:26.450
Fraudulent data extraction by an organized group.

00:29:26.509 --> 00:29:28.950
I think you can still do some of that stuff.

00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:31.049
You can put people in bikinis. Yeah, I think

00:29:31.049 --> 00:29:33.589
you can do that. So, like, if you wanted to take

00:29:33.589 --> 00:29:35.730
Shaquille O 'Neal and put him in a bikini, you

00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.289
could say you're sexualizing him. Okay. Yeah.

00:29:38.349 --> 00:29:41.509
I mean, I guess you can do that. Yeah. So that'll

00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:43.470
be why, you know, recently Keir Starmer, Prime

00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:46.109
Minister of the UK, said he wanted to – was considering

00:29:46.109 --> 00:29:48.710
– Not necessarily he was going to ban X, but

00:29:48.710 --> 00:29:50.250
it wasn't off the table. It's something like

00:29:50.250 --> 00:29:53.029
as though he's going to do that. But this is

00:29:53.029 --> 00:29:54.670
always the excuse. Like, you know, we're protecting

00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:57.289
children. Right. And look, no one wants that

00:29:57.289 --> 00:29:58.849
sort of stuff. Right. No one wants deep fakes

00:29:58.849 --> 00:30:02.410
of kids, obviously. But there's I mean, looking

00:30:02.410 --> 00:30:04.289
at the stats on that, there's far more child

00:30:04.289 --> 00:30:06.609
sexual exploitation on Snapchat, for instance.

00:30:07.049 --> 00:30:09.490
But they don't go after Snapchat because Snapchat

00:30:09.490 --> 00:30:10.950
isn't the form where Keir Starmer is getting

00:30:10.950 --> 00:30:13.869
criticized every single day and brutally hauled

00:30:13.869 --> 00:30:16.069
over the coals by people checking his facts.

00:30:16.569 --> 00:30:18.109
One of the best things about X recently is the

00:30:18.109 --> 00:30:21.170
community notes. Checking journalists and politicians

00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:24.109
in real time with facts. They hate it. They hate

00:30:24.109 --> 00:30:26.569
that. So no wonder they're going after X. Yeah,

00:30:26.589 --> 00:30:28.549
Biden got cooked by community notes multiple

00:30:28.549 --> 00:30:30.269
times. Yeah, yeah. To the point where the administration

00:30:30.269 --> 00:30:33.490
was taking down posts. Yeah. So did The Guardian,

00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:35.930
the left -leaning newspaper. It flounced off

00:30:35.930 --> 00:30:37.589
X with a big statement saying, we're going to

00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:39.990
blue sky. We've had it. We're off to blue sky.

00:30:40.269 --> 00:30:43.569
It was such a flounce. And of course, and then

00:30:43.569 --> 00:30:44.849
of course, everyone was retweeting all their

00:30:44.849 --> 00:30:47.160
community notes. They had, Loads of them. Of

00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.759
course. Just absolutely loads of them. Because

00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.819
it's not true. And, you know, especially when

00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:52.680
it's open to the whole world. Yeah. And people

00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.700
that aren't stuck under your guidelines, like

00:30:54.700 --> 00:30:57.039
in America, we could just talk shit. Yeah. And

00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.640
I think the reason why it's in France probably

00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.400
has a lot to do with Candace Owens. Oh, yes,

00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:04.259
that makes complete sense. Yeah. That might be

00:31:04.259 --> 00:31:07.680
it. And, like, I mean, how many times did that

00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.380
get shared? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that is...

00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:12.099
That makes sense of it now. By the way, there's

00:31:12.099 --> 00:31:15.799
a real quick way to solve that. Open chromosome

00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:17.839
test. Go ahead and do it. I thought you were

00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.099
going to be a bit more graphic than that. Well,

00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:20.200
you don't have to do that. No, you don't have

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.480
to. Because that doesn't really solve it because

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.119
you could, unless, I mean, there's no operation,

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:28.259
but if she's gone through a surgery, then, you

00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:29.619
know, you could show a picture and it's probably

00:31:29.619 --> 00:31:31.759
pretty realistic, especially when was the last

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.539
time you saw a 70 -year -old lady's cooter? Last

00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:36.880
week. Oh, yeah. Congratulations. I'm just interested

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.480
in that sort of stuff. Well, you know, you're

00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.519
allowed to be curious in this country. That's

00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:41.640
actually a really good example, though, isn't

00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.339
it, of the... Just something so obviously not

00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:47.440
true just going all over the world, like in a

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.539
matter of moments. Is it not true, though? What,

00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.279
that Macron's wife is a man? Yeah. Yeah, that's

00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:54.799
not true. 100 %? Well, you know, the burden of

00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.599
proof is on those who want to say that it is

00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:58.640
true. The reality of the story is weird enough

00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:00.960
without it being true. Like the 40 -year -old

00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.880
man and the – He was – wasn't she his schoolteacher?

00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.460
She was 40 – yeah. She was 40 if it is actually

00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:11.000
a woman. She was 40 and he was 15. That's crazy.

00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:13.230
And everyone says, well – They're French. That

00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:18.349
seems to be the thing. What a wild country. People

00:32:18.349 --> 00:32:20.650
just say that's the way it works in France. But

00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:23.490
again, look, I would say with all of this stuff,

00:32:23.529 --> 00:32:27.470
you need some sort of proof. Wasn't it the Carl

00:32:27.470 --> 00:32:28.930
Sagan thing about extraordinary claims require

00:32:28.930 --> 00:32:30.710
extraordinary evidence? I think that's a pretty

00:32:30.710 --> 00:32:33.509
safe diktat. The idea that, okay, anything could

00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:37.579
be true. There have been. crazy conspiracies

00:32:37.579 --> 00:32:40.039
that turned out to be true. So I'm not, I would

00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:41.720
never rule anything out. But what I'm saying

00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:43.039
is if you're going to make a claim like that,

00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:45.859
you better be damn sure you've got really solid

00:32:45.859 --> 00:32:49.980
evidence. She's got hours long documentaries

00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.900
on this. Yeah. And are they, are they persuasive?

00:32:53.259 --> 00:32:55.099
I haven't watched them all. Do you think I have

00:32:55.099 --> 00:32:58.640
that kind of time? Well, you should do what you

00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.680
should do your research before you're part of

00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.559
the problem. Outrageous. I can't do research

00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.319
on that. I want to wait till it plays out in

00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:09.279
court. But whenever I do do research, I'll give

00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.119
you the example from this week, just because

00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:13.279
I'm reading it now. A woman's written a book

00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:14.880
claiming that Shakespeare was a black woman.

00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.220
Oh, I saw that. Yeah. So this is a major spoiler

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:22.420
alert. Shakespeare wasn't a black woman. Crazy.

00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:25.259
Yeah. I've got the book. I'm reading the book

00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:28.269
now. It is worse than you imagine. How could

00:33:28.269 --> 00:33:30.329
it be worse than I imagine? Because, because.

00:33:30.630 --> 00:33:32.390
It's obviously not true, firstly. Of course.

00:33:32.589 --> 00:33:35.730
But she basically says in the book that it's

00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:38.549
important that it should be true. What? Yeah.

00:33:38.609 --> 00:33:41.349
In fact, the book opens with a picture of Shakespeare

00:33:41.349 --> 00:33:44.329
as a black woman, which was drawn by the author.

00:33:44.849 --> 00:33:49.630
Is it a good drawing? It's okay. I don't want

00:33:49.630 --> 00:33:51.529
to mock someone else. Can I see it? Can I see

00:33:51.529 --> 00:33:54.730
it? If it's out, it's the first. Oh, that's the

00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:56.490
book. That's actually pretty good. No, no, no.

00:33:57.329 --> 00:33:59.690
That's a black woman? No, no, no. That's a portrait

00:33:59.690 --> 00:34:02.210
of Amelia Lanyer, who she says was Shakespeare.

00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:04.430
And she says that the portraits at the time were

00:34:04.430 --> 00:34:08.289
whitened to disguise her blackness. In the book

00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:11.190
itself. In the book itself. You won't be able

00:34:11.190 --> 00:34:12.489
to get in the book, I don't think, Jamie. But

00:34:12.489 --> 00:34:14.590
in the book itself, there's a sketch that she's

00:34:14.590 --> 00:34:16.670
done. So it's like, I can imagine a publisher

00:34:16.670 --> 00:34:18.250
saying, oh, what evidence have you got? And she's

00:34:18.250 --> 00:34:20.309
like, oh, well, I'll go and draw it for you.

00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:21.989
And that's sort of what she said. Oh, she's black

00:34:21.989 --> 00:34:24.599
and Jewish? Yeah, black Jewish. Well, actually,

00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:27.579
I mean, Amelia Lanyer was part Moorish, but wasn't

00:34:27.579 --> 00:34:30.360
black and she wasn't particularly dark skinned.

00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.139
And she was Jewish as well? Yeah, part Jewish.

00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:35.159
Okay, so who is this woman that they're saying

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:37.739
actually was Shakespeare? So she's called Amelia

00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:41.619
Lanyer or Amelia Bassano. And one of the arguments

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:44.280
is that Shakespeare at the time, if she was a

00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.179
woman, wouldn't have been able to get published

00:34:46.179 --> 00:34:48.000
because women couldn't get published. But Amelia

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.940
Lanyer was published. She had a book of poetry.

00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.739
So all of this stuff falls apart like... In two

00:34:52.739 --> 00:34:56.239
seconds flat. And this is the best one. She even

00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.500
says in the book that the word Shakespeare is

00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:05.860
an anagram of a she speaker. I'm not making that

00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:11.460
up. That's what she says. I mean, you know, listen.

00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.460
What a cover up. How'd she crack the case? Well,

00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.900
actually, it's an old theory. It's like a 20

00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:18.030
year old theory. Is it really? I tell you. 20

00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:20.250
years old. She's just sort of rehashing it now

00:35:20.250 --> 00:35:22.329
for this identitarian post -woke world where

00:35:22.329 --> 00:35:23.789
we're all like we're desperate for Shakespeare

00:35:23.789 --> 00:35:27.530
to be a black woman. And it's so. It's so fun.

00:35:27.829 --> 00:35:30.369
It's so pathetic. This was my first encounter

00:35:30.369 --> 00:35:31.889
with conspiracy theories because my background

00:35:31.889 --> 00:35:34.250
is I did a doctorate in Shakespeare. My background

00:35:34.250 --> 00:35:35.789
was teaching Shakespeare back in the day, like

00:35:35.789 --> 00:35:37.110
before I did comedy and before I did anything

00:35:37.110 --> 00:35:39.650
else. And it was the conspiracy theorists around

00:35:39.650 --> 00:35:40.949
Shakespeare saying Shakespeare couldn't have

00:35:40.949 --> 00:35:43.110
written his work. They are the most intense,

00:35:43.230 --> 00:35:48.000
the most angry, the most evidence free. cohort

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.500
of people they get more they're angrier than

00:35:50.500 --> 00:35:53.079
the woke I promise you like I've tweeted I've

00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:54.780
written stuff about Shakespeare online I recently

00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:56.440
did some lectures about Shakespeare for the Peterson

00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:58.840
Academy because I'm really into I love the Peterson

00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:00.579
Academy I love what they're doing and I did these

00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:02.760
Shakespeare lectures and the conspiracy theorists

00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:05.139
were on to me online saying it wasn't Shakespeare

00:36:05.139 --> 00:36:07.300
the guy from Stratford didn't write this and

00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:10.300
what all these theories have in common is they've

00:36:10.300 --> 00:36:12.659
just made there's no evidence There's no evidence.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:14.639
The key point about Shakespeare is if you're

00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:16.320
going to say it wasn't the guy who everyone thought

00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.769
it was, you have to answer. One key question.

00:36:18.869 --> 00:36:20.730
Why does everyone who knew Shakespeare, wrote

00:36:20.730 --> 00:36:23.050
about Shakespeare, say that it was? Can I stop

00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:24.809
you? Because I'm confused. I didn't even know

00:36:24.809 --> 00:36:27.389
that there was a conspiracy about Shakespeare.

00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:30.110
Oh, wow. Yeah, there's lots. I had heard one

00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:34.269
person say that Shakespeare wasn't real and that

00:36:34.269 --> 00:36:37.190
it was really someone else's work that he plagiarized.

00:36:37.269 --> 00:36:40.250
Yeah. I had heard that. But I never even bothered

00:36:40.250 --> 00:36:41.909
to fuck around with it. Well, it actually came

00:36:41.909 --> 00:36:44.090
from America. It's you guys. Of course. We're

00:36:44.090 --> 00:36:46.400
the best. We're number one. There's a guy called

00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.280
Looney, actually, from America. That's hilarious.

00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.059
You're going to listen to that guy? We're going

00:36:53.059 --> 00:36:55.000
back like 60, 70 years or something, but he came

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.019
up with this idea that Shakespeare was actually

00:36:57.019 --> 00:36:58.800
an aristocrat called Edward de Vere, the Earl

00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.000
of Oxford. The problem is Edward de Vere died

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:03.920
in 1604. That's before Macbeth. That's before

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.860
Antony and Cleopatra. That's before Coriolanus.

00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.159
That's before The Tempest. So he managed to,

00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:10.500
I think they get around it by saying he wrote

00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:13.820
these plays and then he died. And then Shakespeare

00:37:13.820 --> 00:37:17.860
found them? Or something. Yeah. So even though

00:37:17.860 --> 00:37:19.920
some of those plays actually have cultural references

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.820
from the time after De Vere died, but it doesn't

00:37:21.820 --> 00:37:24.639
matter. Maybe he was a prophet as well. But all

00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.239
of the, you speak to these people, you'll see

00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:28.960
what I mean. Edward De Vere, they think, some

00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:30.719
people think it was Francis Bacon. Some people

00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.260
think it was Christopher Marlowe. Some people

00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:35.780
think it was Elizabeth I. Like all of the candidates

00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:37.579
they put up, right? The key thing is they're

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:39.880
all aristocrats. They're all posh. Why? Because

00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:41.780
Shakespeare was a... Middle class, lower middle

00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.380
class, not very rich, didn't go to university,

00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.639
came from the Midlands, you know, up and coming

00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:49.820
guy. And they say, well, how could someone like

00:37:49.820 --> 00:37:52.239
that write about kings and lords and ladies?

00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.519
It's snobbery. They're basically saying working

00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.360
class people can't do art. I mean, really, that's

00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:00.239
what it is. Otherwise, they wouldn't be going

00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:03.550
after all these aristocrats. And it's the opposite

00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:07.289
in America, oddly. Is it? Yeah. So if you were

00:38:07.289 --> 00:38:09.989
a Rockefeller in America, you're from the Rockefeller

00:38:09.989 --> 00:38:12.090
family and you wrote an amazing novel, no one

00:38:12.090 --> 00:38:14.610
would believe it. Right. OK. No, that has to

00:38:14.610 --> 00:38:17.809
be like some guy who or some woman who's like

00:38:17.809 --> 00:38:20.809
grinding, drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes

00:38:20.809 --> 00:38:22.949
alone in their apartment to write something as

00:38:22.949 --> 00:38:24.750
brilliant. So I wonder what it is about the UK.

00:38:24.889 --> 00:38:26.429
Well, although, like I say, a lot of it comes

00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:30.389
from America. And is it just the need to tear

00:38:30.389 --> 00:38:33.659
down an icon? Is it that? I mean, I get it now

00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.920
with this woman who's saying Shakespeare was

00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.260
a black woman. I get that at the moment because

00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:40.460
we're in this moment of identitarian group identity

00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:43.119
mania. So that makes sense. She's got a political

00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:44.780
reason why she wants it to be a black woman.

00:38:44.900 --> 00:38:47.519
So I kind of understand that more. But what is

00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:48.980
it? I think it might be more to do with the idea

00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:52.380
that this guy changed civilization, changed literature.

00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:54.460
No one else has achieved what he achieved in

00:38:54.460 --> 00:38:57.159
writing. He's up there with Michelangelo, Bach,

00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:59.179
you know, all of that. Let's tear that down.

00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.159
Let's tear down Western civilization. Let's say,

00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:03.449
None of this is based on anything. This is all

00:39:03.449 --> 00:39:08.429
untrue. I think it's to do with that innate iconoclasm,

00:39:08.429 --> 00:39:10.909
that innate, you know, just tearing down the

00:39:10.909 --> 00:39:13.130
great things about our culture. For sure. That's

00:39:13.130 --> 00:39:15.050
always been the case. And people always want

00:39:15.050 --> 00:39:18.239
to tear down idols. They want to tear down whoever

00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:20.659
it is, no matter what. I was watching this video

00:39:20.659 --> 00:39:22.019
we were talking about the other day of this woman

00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:23.739
talking about how the Beatles were terrible.

00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.420
And this woman was not very articulate, not particularly

00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:29.980
interesting, doesn't seem that compelling. And

00:39:29.980 --> 00:39:32.059
she was going on and on about how bad the Beatles

00:39:32.059 --> 00:39:34.239
were. I'm like, you're not going to convince

00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:36.340
anyone. This is not going to work. But people

00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:38.420
are going to fucking try. They're going to try

00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:40.380
no matter what, no matter who it is. Hendrix

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:42.519
sucked. I've heard that before. Oh, really? Hendrix

00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.440
sucked. Stop. But at least that's based on an

00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.730
opinion. Right. There's a difference between

00:39:47.730 --> 00:39:49.929
saying Jimi Hendrix sucked and Jimi Hendrix was

00:39:49.929 --> 00:39:52.550
actually a woman from Liverpool called Maud.

00:39:52.670 --> 00:39:55.070
Well, you know, the theory about Jimi Hendrix

00:39:55.070 --> 00:39:58.510
in America. Do you know that? No. OK, so it's

00:39:58.510 --> 00:40:02.090
the people that are like deep into the CIA and

00:40:02.090 --> 00:40:05.449
CIA conspiracies. And what is it called? Strange

00:40:05.449 --> 00:40:07.409
Tales from the Canyon. Is that what it's called?

00:40:07.530 --> 00:40:11.750
The book? So there's a book on there's a bizarre

00:40:11.750 --> 00:40:14.929
connection between a lot of the countercultural

00:40:14.929 --> 00:40:18.469
figures of the 1960s and the intelligence community.

00:40:19.170 --> 00:40:21.670
One of them is Jim Morrison's father was like

00:40:21.670 --> 00:40:24.530
a high ranking military officer. And then there's

00:40:24.530 --> 00:40:27.190
different people from different bands that were

00:40:27.190 --> 00:40:29.409
like a key part of the countercultural movement

00:40:29.409 --> 00:40:33.849
that all have parents that were either. In intelligence

00:40:33.849 --> 00:40:37.769
communities or closely connected to it. Like

00:40:37.769 --> 00:40:39.670
a suspiciously. Weird scenes inside the canyon.

00:40:39.929 --> 00:40:43.469
It's a crazy book. It's fun. It's kind of fun.

00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:46.250
Is it crazy as in like the revelations are crazy

00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:49.190
or that it's just not true? Well, they make some

00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:52.070
broad leaps, right? So there's a lot of, and

00:40:52.070 --> 00:40:54.849
then a year later, he died in mysterious circumstances,

00:40:54.869 --> 00:40:57.269
or a year later, he died from suicide, or a year

00:40:57.269 --> 00:40:59.469
later, he died from an overdose. Well, okay.

00:40:59.670 --> 00:41:00.969
You're hanging out with a bunch of people that

00:41:00.969 --> 00:41:02.909
are doing drugs all the time, and they're all

00:41:02.909 --> 00:41:04.809
ne 'er -do -wells, and they're all hanging out

00:41:04.809 --> 00:41:07.389
in Laurel Canyon. If you don't know Laurel Canyon,

00:41:07.690 --> 00:41:10.309
Laurel Canyon, at least at the time, I mean,

00:41:10.329 --> 00:41:12.590
when I first moved to Hollywood, it's like all

00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:15.329
the weirdos would live in Laurel Canyon. Like

00:41:15.329 --> 00:41:17.739
all the weirdos were like, like right there above

00:41:17.739 --> 00:41:20.559
Hollywood. And there was all these crazy parties

00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.639
up there. It was like Laurel Canyon was nuts.

00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:24.159
And they all knew each other, right? So they're

00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.000
all part of that circle. So, I mean, this was

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.619
like when I moved there in the 90s, this was

00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.460
the case. My friend Dave Foley had a house up

00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:33.639
there. Right. And it was like all these kooky

00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:35.019
people. And he was telling me about all these

00:41:35.019 --> 00:41:36.980
kooky parties and all this different shit. It

00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:38.880
was like Laurel Kane, he was always like, so

00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:40.619
of course a bunch of people are going to die.

00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:42.099
So what's the theory? Of course a bunch of people

00:41:42.099 --> 00:41:44.780
are going to be connected to bands and different

00:41:44.780 --> 00:41:47.079
counterculture movements. The theory is that

00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:53.920
the CIA sort of engineered this. this culture

00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:57.579
to, I don't know why. I'm not exactly sure because

00:41:57.579 --> 00:41:59.000
I haven't gotten all the way through the book.

00:41:59.539 --> 00:42:02.460
Are you still reading it? No, I pick it up every

00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.920
now and then. It's just like, it's too kooky.

00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:10.679
It's not grabbing you. Well, you can't make Jimi

00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.199
Hendrix in a lab, okay? You can't. It's just

00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.739
you can't fucking do it. You can't make someone

00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:19.800
that good. It's not possible. You can't tell

00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:21.739
me that if they did, why haven't they done it

00:42:21.739 --> 00:42:23.539
since? Why don't they do it all the time? Right.

00:42:23.929 --> 00:42:27.449
The greatest guitarist of all time. And you're

00:42:27.449 --> 00:42:29.130
telling me the central intelligence cooked that

00:42:29.130 --> 00:42:31.489
guy up? So they invented him. He's like their

00:42:31.489 --> 00:42:34.449
clone or something. Well, I just think that they

00:42:34.449 --> 00:42:38.269
had some sort of an influence on these people,

00:42:38.349 --> 00:42:40.849
on Jim Morrison. There's a thing about Morrison.

00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:43.349
The Morrison one. What is the connection between

00:42:43.349 --> 00:42:46.530
Jim Morrison's dad and the intelligence agencies?

00:42:47.010 --> 00:42:49.949
There's some tangible connection with Jim Morrison's

00:42:49.949 --> 00:42:53.090
dad. But wouldn't you just normally assume that

00:42:53.090 --> 00:42:55.050
if... If your dad was some high ranking military

00:42:55.050 --> 00:42:57.889
guy, first of all, never home. Yeah. Okay. So

00:42:57.889 --> 00:42:59.829
where are you? You're out running around with

00:42:59.829 --> 00:43:01.570
your friends, smoking cigarettes and fucking

00:43:01.570 --> 00:43:05.190
drinking and you're in a band and it turns out

00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:07.730
you got a lot of angst and pain because you're

00:43:07.730 --> 00:43:10.170
being neglected as a child because your dad works

00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:12.090
16 hours a day trying to fuck the country over.

00:43:12.190 --> 00:43:15.050
And so what do you do? You go counterculture.

00:43:15.130 --> 00:43:17.309
It's like, it's so common. The preacher's daughter,

00:43:17.449 --> 00:43:20.030
she becomes like a harlot, right? There you are,

00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:22.010
high -ranking U .S. officer with, yeah. Right.

00:43:22.150 --> 00:43:24.050
But that is, okay, but again, like this is a

00:43:24.050 --> 00:43:26.210
perfect example. Wow, he's involved in the Gulf

00:43:26.210 --> 00:43:28.610
of Tonkin incident. Whoa. But that's not proof

00:43:28.610 --> 00:43:31.030
of anything. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But

00:43:31.030 --> 00:43:33.369
his dad is. Yeah, but, you know, but this is

00:43:33.369 --> 00:43:35.030
the thing. They'll take something like that.

00:43:35.250 --> 00:43:37.389
They'll take various strips of coincidences and

00:43:37.389 --> 00:43:39.050
they say this leads us to this conclusion. But

00:43:39.050 --> 00:43:40.849
all they're doing is coming up with a conclusion

00:43:40.849 --> 00:43:43.789
first and working backwards. Like this sort of

00:43:43.789 --> 00:43:46.610
stuff, you see it again and again. So this is

00:43:46.610 --> 00:43:48.449
how this connects with intelligence agencies.

00:43:48.590 --> 00:43:51.630
McGowan, I guess that's the author. Core move

00:43:51.630 --> 00:43:54.369
is to group Morrison's father with other Laurel

00:43:54.369 --> 00:43:57.070
Canyon musicians' parents who worked in military,

00:43:57.269 --> 00:44:00.190
defense or intelligence linked roles and to frame

00:44:00.190 --> 00:44:02.730
this as evidence of a broader covert program

00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:06.889
around the 1960s rock scene. Come on. Yeah. So

00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:09.570
are you saying that the CIA. We're trying to

00:44:09.570 --> 00:44:11.469
influence the culture through the medium of rock

00:44:11.469 --> 00:44:14.949
music. Uh -huh. And that's somehow tied to espionage.

00:44:14.949 --> 00:44:19.949
They also have that film studio. What's that?

00:44:20.170 --> 00:44:21.949
What? Jared Leto bought that place. That was

00:44:21.949 --> 00:44:24.190
a film studio in Laurel Canyon, too. Oh, well,

00:44:24.230 --> 00:44:27.150
it's a base. It's an actual base. Yeah, Jared

00:44:27.150 --> 00:44:29.989
Leto. I was talking to Jared about that. I had

00:44:29.989 --> 00:44:32.690
dinner with Jared Leto one night. He's very cool,

00:44:32.730 --> 00:44:35.389
by the way. Really nice guy. Very normal. And

00:44:35.389 --> 00:44:38.050
by the way, he looks like he's 30. He's 50 years

00:44:38.050 --> 00:44:39.869
old. It's crazy. Moisturizer or something. What

00:44:39.869 --> 00:44:41.690
are you doing with your fucking skin? You look

00:44:41.690 --> 00:44:44.150
great. Lookout Mountain Laboratory Air Force

00:44:44.150 --> 00:44:46.190
Station. So he bought that place and converted

00:44:46.190 --> 00:44:50.070
it into a home. That's where he lives. It's a

00:44:50.070 --> 00:44:52.809
dope spot. Soundstage. Looks quite nice. Soundstage

00:44:52.809 --> 00:44:54.619
Film Laboratory, two screening rooms. rooms,

00:44:54.619 --> 00:44:57.059
four editing rooms, an animation and still photo

00:44:57.059 --> 00:44:59.400
department, sound mixing studio, numerous climate

00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.940
-controlled film vaults. And this is connected

00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:03.599
to the conspiracy somehow. Well, this was an

00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:06.239
actual military base. Located in that same neighborhood.

00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.179
Okay. So this Air Force station, whatever it

00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:12.079
was, I wonder what they were doing. Like, why

00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.739
did they need all that film capability? Why did

00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:17.780
they need to be... In theory, I guess... Like

00:45:17.780 --> 00:45:19.800
when they would show the atomic bombs going off

00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.159
and would play it in the movie theater for people

00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:23.980
to see it. That's how they would make the actual

00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:26.460
reels and whatnot. Well, that makes sense, right?

00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:28.420
It makes sense that they were right there in

00:45:28.420 --> 00:45:30.079
Hollywood if that's what they were doing. On

00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.559
top, what other things they made? Here's the

00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.699
still from Lookout Mountain Laboratory. So it's

00:45:36.699 --> 00:45:38.639
just a studio then. A special effects studio.

00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:40.599
But it's in that same neighborhood at the same

00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:42.880
time. Yeah, but so what? I mean, I think with

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.820
all of it. He's not arguing for it. God damn

00:45:46.820 --> 00:45:48.579
it, Jamie. The so what of it is that there wasn't

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:50.619
that many of them to begin with and just they

00:45:50.619 --> 00:45:52.320
all happen to be in the same. But do you not

00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.099
think with all of this stuff, like again and

00:45:54.099 --> 00:45:58.099
again, the pattern is either there's gaps, there's

00:45:58.099 --> 00:46:00.380
gaps in what we know and people decide to fill

00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:01.440
them in themselves because there's a kind of

00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.519
comfort to that. There's also some kind of comfort

00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:05.340
with. I know something that no one else does.

00:46:05.420 --> 00:46:07.679
I've got the answer. There's a status element

00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.400
to that. I remember I read a book when I was

00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:11.920
a kid, like teenager, called The Sacred Virgin

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.760
and the Holy Whore. And it was about sort of

00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.119
books I read. And it was about Jesus. And it

00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:19.159
was trying to prove that Jesus was a woman. And

00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:21.760
as you're reading it, you're thinking, yeah,

00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:24.500
oh, yeah, Jesus is a woman. I can't believe that.

00:46:25.420 --> 00:46:26.639
And then you get to the end, you think, what

00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.099
the hell did I just read? And it's that thing

00:46:28.099 --> 00:46:31.980
of you can marshal any kind of. Half -baked facts

00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:34.360
or any you can marshal certain things that we

00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.480
can see and Fill in the gaps yourself and lead

00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:39.679
to a crazy conclusion What concerns me isn't

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:41.000
so much that people do that because people have

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.880
done that forever as long as they've been human

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:46.440
beings is that now people are Leaping at it and

00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.380
falling for it in a way that I haven't seen maybe

00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:51.440
it is just social media, right? But it is can

00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.380
I give you an example of this? So please a recent

00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.219
one, which I just thought was nuts. Did you see

00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:59.590
the Portrait of King Charles III by an artist,

00:46:59.670 --> 00:47:03.170
I think his name was Yeo, Y -E -O. It's a big

00:47:03.170 --> 00:47:05.230
red portrait which currently hangs in Buckingham

00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:07.289
Palace. Oh, I have seen that. It's crazy. If

00:47:07.289 --> 00:47:10.150
you take a quarter of it, invert it, flip it,

00:47:10.210 --> 00:47:13.340
add a bit. And squint, it looks like a goat devil,

00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.840
right? But you have to do a lot of steps to find

00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.920
the goat devil. Well, of course. It's a puzzle.

00:47:18.579 --> 00:47:22.039
How dare you? I'm sorry. How dare you dismiss

00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:24.659
that puzzle? Let's show the photo and show how

00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:26.199
it's done because it's kind of fun. Can you see

00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:28.179
the goat? Oh, there we go. So can you see the

00:47:28.179 --> 00:47:30.179
goat as well? First of all, just the photo by

00:47:30.179 --> 00:47:33.239
itself. Like, hey, man, what the fuck are you

00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.360
doing? Oh, it's a creepy picture. Why am I splattered

00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.239
in blood? I've seen it in the flesh. It's a creepy

00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:40.420
picture. One thing if he did that in all white.

00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:42.539
It was an all white background. That would be

00:47:42.539 --> 00:47:44.260
one thing. Like, oh, that's kind of an interesting

00:47:44.260 --> 00:47:47.059
look or, you know, pastel. So what are you saying,

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:49.079
Joe? Are you already suspicious? Is that what

00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.199
you're saying? Well, the photo's nuts. Like,

00:47:51.260 --> 00:47:53.619
the painting is nuts. Where's the goat? So all

00:47:53.619 --> 00:47:55.800
you have to do is put it. Together side -by -side

00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:57.659
you don't have to do that much you exaggerated

00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:00.059
how much you have to know I saw a video Trust

00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:02.300
me look at it upside down looks. Oh, no, no,

00:48:02.300 --> 00:48:05.019
I will the other way I found a goat put it back

00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:09.119
put it back I can completely see the goat now.

00:48:09.219 --> 00:48:11.719
That's 100 % a goat. They did it on purpose It

00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:14.460
says that is that's a that's a sign go back to

00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:16.880
the other one Click on that one. I see a goat

00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:19.320
there. I see some evil demon look at two eyeballs.

00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:23.000
Yeah, yeah, bro Where? 100%. Stop. Stop trying

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:28.159
to gaslight me. I see a monster. Oh, well. I

00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:30.300
mean. You can find something in everything, man.

00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:32.059
It still looks all superimposed. I mean, you

00:48:32.059 --> 00:48:34.400
see. I can see Martha Stewart in that. The Virgin

00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.800
Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich. You can see

00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:38.880
it in the clouds and the rocks. Of course. There's

00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:40.719
a term for this where our brains look for patterns

00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:42.699
and things. I had a conversation once with a

00:48:42.699 --> 00:48:45.039
friend of mine that I didn't know was going crazy.

00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:47.940
Right. And he goes, hey, you want to see something

00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:50.929
crazy? And he pulls out his phone. And he shows

00:48:50.929 --> 00:48:53.849
me a cloud. Yeah. And I go, what is that? He

00:48:53.849 --> 00:48:55.929
goes, dude, I'm seeing this all day. And he shows

00:48:55.929 --> 00:48:58.090
me some other ones. He's got, like, hundreds

00:48:58.090 --> 00:49:00.570
of photos of clouds on his phone. Yeah. I go,

00:49:00.630 --> 00:49:02.389
what are you seeing? He goes, these are UFOs.

00:49:02.550 --> 00:49:04.510
He goes, these are spaceships. This is not a

00:49:04.510 --> 00:49:07.090
regular cloud. Right. And I'm looking at the

00:49:07.090 --> 00:49:09.170
photos. Like, he's just been taking pictures

00:49:09.170 --> 00:49:10.989
of clouds all day. And I realize, oh, my God,

00:49:11.050 --> 00:49:14.340
my friend is going schizophrenic. I didn't know

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:17.940
him well. So he was ill? Yeah. Okay, okay. The

00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:19.440
more I talked to him, the more I realized there

00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.360
was something cracked. Like, he's a guy I hadn't

00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.860
seen in, like, maybe seven or eight years. And

00:49:24.860 --> 00:49:26.559
I ran into him at a comedy club, and he was just

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:28.780
showing me photos of clouds on his phone. I was

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:31.440
like, during the conversation, I realized, oh,

00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:34.280
he cracked. But aren't you concerned that that

00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.539
kind of thing is now kind of common? Like, from

00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:40.059
people who aren't necessarily unwell. People

00:49:40.059 --> 00:49:42.289
who are just seeing stuff. Well, it's fun. I

00:49:42.289 --> 00:49:46.550
think it's exciting for people to uncover information

00:49:46.550 --> 00:49:49.389
that the general public is ignorant of. And so

00:49:49.389 --> 00:49:52.210
here's the thing about the Laurel Canyon thing.

00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:57.289
There's enough. of the CIA meddling in cultural

00:49:57.289 --> 00:50:00.050
events that's absolutely true and provable. And

00:50:00.050 --> 00:50:01.949
that's MKUltra. And that's what they did with

00:50:01.949 --> 00:50:04.230
Charles Manson. And that's the book Chaos by

00:50:04.230 --> 00:50:06.469
Tom O 'Neill, which is a brilliant book, which

00:50:06.469 --> 00:50:10.010
is very well documented in details, Jolly West

00:50:10.010 --> 00:50:12.650
and his influence on the Manson family and how

00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:14.590
they were influencing these people to try to

00:50:14.590 --> 00:50:17.050
sabotage the hippie movement. So the hippie movement

00:50:17.050 --> 00:50:19.710
was this change in culture where all of a sudden

00:50:19.710 --> 00:50:21.730
people were rejecting the war movement. They

00:50:21.730 --> 00:50:23.530
were rejecting, you know, they were free love.

00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.860
and they were doing acid and people were freaking

00:50:25.860 --> 00:50:28.380
out. Their kids were just disappearing and following

00:50:28.380 --> 00:50:32.039
the Grateful Dead around. And they took this

00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:34.900
guy, Charles Manson, this very charismatic con

00:50:34.900 --> 00:50:38.239
man. They taught him how to dose people up with

00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:40.679
acid and influence them. And they got them to

00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:43.119
commit murders. But there is evidence for this,

00:50:43.139 --> 00:50:44.539
right? So you're talking about a book that is

00:50:44.539 --> 00:50:47.659
researched backing up its points. Right. No,

00:50:47.739 --> 00:50:50.679
you're being logical. And, you know, you're correct.

00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:54.199
But what I'm saying is because of that, people

00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:57.280
go, well, what else? And so then they make these

00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:00.480
big leaps, like Jimi Hendrix is a CIA creation.

00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:04.300
Right. But if you're a logical person, you just

00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:06.980
listen to Voodoo Child's Slight Return, and you're

00:51:06.980 --> 00:51:10.300
like, how? How? This is like, if that's true,

00:51:10.420 --> 00:51:12.960
CIA should get back to work. Make another one

00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:15.539
of those, bro. So I wonder whether this is, I

00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:18.260
think this is the fallout of the woke movement.

00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:21.980
This is the divorcing of reality and truth. The

00:51:21.980 --> 00:51:25.239
idea that it doesn't matter. Not just about what

00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:27.139
is expedient, but what we want to believe. I

00:51:27.139 --> 00:51:29.679
think we should stop saying it's the fallout

00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.519
of the woke movement. I think we should start

00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:34.659
saying it's a natural pattern that human beings

00:51:34.659 --> 00:51:38.719
automatically fall into in order to support their

00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.260
belief systems and enforce their particular ideology

00:51:42.260 --> 00:51:45.659
over whatever opposing ideology is. But it's

00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:48.099
escalated. It escalates, but it's because of

00:51:48.099 --> 00:51:50.320
social media that everything is escalating now.

00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:52.239
But is it just social media? I mean, I think

00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.019
another thing that's a major... reason for it.

00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:58.539
We had COVID. We had all these experts telling

00:51:58.539 --> 00:52:00.599
us it's a racist conspiracy theory to say that

00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:02.880
it came from a lab in Wuhan. Now everyone knows

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.360
that's almost certainly true. We had people in

00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:08.820
positions of authority lying to us. So it's something

00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:11.679
about this culture war. But that's not real culture

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:15.300
war. That was using the culture war because they

00:52:15.300 --> 00:52:18.230
were trying to cover something up. But they leapt

00:52:18.230 --> 00:52:20.030
to race, didn't they? They leapt to identity.

00:52:20.030 --> 00:52:22.090
But that's because they were using the culture

00:52:22.090 --> 00:52:25.969
war to cover up their crime. But in either case,

00:52:26.030 --> 00:52:28.449
what you've got effectively is a legitimation

00:52:28.449 --> 00:52:30.610
crisis. You've got people in charge. We've been

00:52:30.610 --> 00:52:33.150
lied to so often. But what I don't think you

00:52:33.150 --> 00:52:35.610
should therefore do, like I'm all for being skeptical

00:52:35.610 --> 00:52:37.650
about people in authority, academics, politicians,

00:52:38.070 --> 00:52:40.920
journalists. They've all lied. But that firstly

00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.800
doesn't mean that all experts and all journalists

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.139
and all people have lied because there have been

00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:46.360
some good ones all the way. But also that doesn't

00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:49.400
mean that you automatically leap to any conclusion

00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.820
evidence -free that jumps before you without

00:52:52.820 --> 00:52:55.739
some kind of critical analysis. The same thing

00:52:55.739 --> 00:52:57.619
that you're criticizing those people for failing

00:52:57.619 --> 00:52:59.420
at. You're falling into the same trap yourself.

00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.280
I don't mean you. But you're Andrew Doyle. You're

00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.539
a brilliant guy who writes books and you're really

00:53:04.539 --> 00:53:09.239
smart. The idea is that you – are immune to this

00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:11.659
stuff because you're intelligent, but the unwashed

00:53:11.659 --> 00:53:14.860
masses are not. I don't think I'm immune at all.

00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:17.539
I honestly don't. I wouldn't put myself in that

00:53:17.539 --> 00:53:18.480
position. Well, you're immune to the dumbest

00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.840
shit. I'd like to think so. You are. I am. Yeah,

00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.440
but don't you think that all of us in the right

00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:26.199
circumstances could end up falling for all sorts

00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:27.739
of stuff? 100%, but I'm not in those circumstances

00:53:27.739 --> 00:53:30.199
currently. But I like to believe, and maybe it's

00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:31.880
a naivety on my part, but I like to believe that

00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:34.679
most people have a kind of natural intellectual

00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:39.380
curiosity. If they are... If they stop for a

00:53:39.380 --> 00:53:43.340
moment and think and don't just trust instinct

00:53:43.340 --> 00:53:45.900
over reason, I think we're all capable of it.

00:53:45.980 --> 00:53:48.059
I just think we're not all realizing it. Well,

00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:50.539
it's not just that. It's like some people are

00:53:50.539 --> 00:53:53.159
medicated, right? So some people are on a bunch

00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:55.340
of different medications that dull their senses.

00:53:55.659 --> 00:53:59.019
And then you've got people that have gotten to

00:53:59.019 --> 00:54:01.099
wherever they are in life. Maybe they're in their

00:54:01.099 --> 00:54:03.699
50s. And they're set in their ways and they have

00:54:03.699 --> 00:54:07.019
no desire to change at all. And so they've been

00:54:07.019 --> 00:54:10.340
living a dump. life for 50 plus years. You can't

00:54:10.340 --> 00:54:12.519
all of a sudden say, hey, Mark, I want you to

00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:14.820
be logical and introspective and think about

00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:16.800
this thing and analyze it. And for what it really

00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.079
is, instead of holding on to your ideological

00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:21.440
beliefs that you've kind of locked yourself into

00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.980
and you identify with and any attacks on those

00:54:23.980 --> 00:54:26.920
as attack on you personally, I want you to just

00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:30.409
let's look at the facts. This episode is sponsored

00:54:30.409 --> 00:54:32.949
by BetterHelp. Look, there's a lot of pressure

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when it comes to dating, especially in February,

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but you're putting too much on yourself and on

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your partner. There's no such thing as a perfect

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relationship, whether you're on a first date

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or have been together for years. It's completely

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normal to go through rough patches, and what

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matters is how you deal with them, and therapy

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00:55:32.349 --> 00:55:33.949
But you saying that sounds very persuasive to

00:55:33.949 --> 00:55:36.190
me. The way you put that, like if I were that

00:55:36.190 --> 00:55:37.989
guy, I'd be like, oh, I've listened to Joe now.

00:55:38.110 --> 00:55:43.769
Fucking liberals, bullshit. You're just a fucking,

00:55:44.030 --> 00:55:46.170
they'll come up with some sort of reason. King

00:55:46.170 --> 00:55:49.389
Charles III is a goat. You're controlled opposition

00:55:49.389 --> 00:55:53.630
or you're a useful idiot or they'll put a label

00:55:53.630 --> 00:55:55.429
on you. I've been called, I've been told I get

00:55:55.429 --> 00:55:58.920
dark money. How do you get any of that? Well,

00:55:58.940 --> 00:56:00.619
I love it. I want it. I want the dark money.

00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:02.239
It's so dark I haven't seen any of it. That's

00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:04.719
how dark it is. What is dark money? I think it's

00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:07.599
when it's like some rich ideologue who's sort

00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.119
of slipping you money to say the thing. You know

00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:10.719
what it is? It's that thing of, I don't believe

00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:12.559
that you disagree with me. I'm too narcissistic

00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:14.099
to believe that you disagree with me. You must

00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:16.280
be being paid to have these opinions. You're

00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.380
paid off, bro. You're paid off. Trust me, I would

00:56:18.380 --> 00:56:19.760
love that. If anyone's out there who wants to

00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:23.639
pay me off, I'll be a mouthpiece. I haven't had

00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.480
that opportunity. It's pretty low. I'm a bit

00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:31.460
of a whore, truth be told. I've got a mortgage.

00:56:31.539 --> 00:56:34.219
Come on. I will say any crazy shit if you want

00:56:34.219 --> 00:56:35.639
me to. Well, there's certainly a lot of people

00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:37.800
that fall into that category, too. So people

00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.559
do get nervous about it. I mean, obviously you're

00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:42.260
joking, but there's a lot of people that will

00:56:42.260 --> 00:56:44.280
change their opinion. Oh, sure. If money comes

00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:47.699
their way. But I like to. assume people mean

00:56:47.699 --> 00:56:50.179
what they say. And my logic behind that is even

00:56:50.179 --> 00:56:52.000
when they don't, you can still dismantle the

00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.239
argument, even if it's authentic or not. You

00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.260
know, even if it's authentically believed. Sure.

00:56:56.440 --> 00:56:59.179
So I think that's just the best way to go about

00:56:59.179 --> 00:57:01.579
it. The best way is debate. That's the best way.

00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:04.679
Or at least conversation. But that's what we've

00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:07.219
lost. I think that hits on it, actually, because...

00:57:07.219 --> 00:57:10.059
I said debate, but that sounds formal. No, I

00:57:10.059 --> 00:57:13.539
know what you mean. Can I give you an example

00:57:13.539 --> 00:57:19.349
of that? So I went to UC Berkeley, the University

00:57:19.349 --> 00:57:21.449
of UC Berkeley in California. Did they let you

00:57:21.449 --> 00:57:25.969
leave? Well, almost not, right? So what had happened

00:57:25.969 --> 00:57:28.369
was, you know, Charlie Kirk's tour was planned

00:57:28.369 --> 00:57:30.389
to go all the way through. And this was the last

00:57:30.389 --> 00:57:32.630
date, the Berkeley date. And after his assassination,

00:57:33.090 --> 00:57:35.829
various people went and did the shows because

00:57:35.829 --> 00:57:37.389
they said, because Turning Point rightly said,

00:57:37.510 --> 00:57:39.590
we're not going to give an assassin the veto

00:57:39.590 --> 00:57:43.539
of our tour. We finished the tour. Rob Schneider,

00:57:43.579 --> 00:57:45.300
who I've been working with in Arizona, I've come

00:57:45.300 --> 00:57:47.059
over here to work with him. The comedian? Yeah.

00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:49.599
So I've been, this is how I escaped from the

00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.500
UK, I should say. So me and Graham Linehan, who

00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:54.719
you've had on your show, the comedy writer, my

00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:57.599
comedy writing partner and friend Martin Gourlay,

00:57:57.699 --> 00:58:01.940
the three of us, we decided that things were

00:58:01.940 --> 00:58:04.840
so bad in the UK. we'd rather write and do creative

00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:07.079
stuff in America. Rob Schneider, who I'd met

00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:08.719
many years ago, he said, come on over, we'll

00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:10.219
set up a production company. We've been working

00:58:10.219 --> 00:58:12.380
in Arizona on all these various projects. It's

00:58:12.380 --> 00:58:14.079
so liberating. And also, it's the middle of the

00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:16.280
desert, so I fucking love the heat. And, you

00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:17.679
know, you go from England to that, it's kind

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:20.380
of exciting. Nice contrast. So we've been able

00:58:20.380 --> 00:58:23.380
to, you know, and look, I don't want to do down

00:58:23.380 --> 00:58:25.949
the UK or say... But what I will just say is

00:58:25.949 --> 00:58:28.230
the creative industries there are pretty stagnant.

00:58:28.230 --> 00:58:30.570
They're not like here. There's so many more ways

00:58:30.570 --> 00:58:34.469
to be free. How can you if you are worried about

00:58:34.469 --> 00:58:37.570
going to jail for a meme? Well, Graham got arrested

00:58:37.570 --> 00:58:40.750
at the airport by five armed officers right after

00:58:40.750 --> 00:58:43.630
he left this podcast. Was that it? Yes. And it

00:58:43.630 --> 00:58:46.909
was he came over, did this podcast, went back

00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:49.329
to visit his family and got arrested. And, you

00:58:49.329 --> 00:58:51.909
know, shortly after he did the podcast. So when

00:58:51.909 --> 00:58:54.010
people say to me, that's not a real problem.

00:58:54.489 --> 00:58:58.130
I mean, Graham had done three tweets. One of

00:58:58.130 --> 00:59:00.369
them was just, they were all joke tweets, by

00:59:00.369 --> 00:59:01.750
the way. They were all jokes. And one of them

00:59:01.750 --> 00:59:03.949
was just, it was something like, ladies, if a

00:59:03.949 --> 00:59:05.630
guy's in your changing room or in your bathroom,

00:59:05.869 --> 00:59:08.170
scream, make a fuss, call the police. If all

00:59:08.170 --> 00:59:10.630
else fails, kick him in the balls. And it's obviously

00:59:10.630 --> 00:59:13.150
a wry way of saying, look, the guy's got genitals.

00:59:13.190 --> 00:59:17.409
That was why he got arrested. On the night he

00:59:17.409 --> 00:59:18.969
got arrested, he was texting me. He said, I've

00:59:18.969 --> 00:59:20.650
just been arrested. I've been taken to the hospital

00:59:20.650 --> 00:59:22.250
because my blood pressure is so high. The police

00:59:22.250 --> 00:59:26.550
took him to the hospital. And you say there's

00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:28.949
no problem in the UK with creativity. He's one

00:59:28.949 --> 00:59:30.949
of our best comedy writers. He's the most beloved

00:59:30.949 --> 00:59:32.989
comedy writer. He hasn't been able to work in

00:59:32.989 --> 00:59:36.670
TV for six years, right? Like he's won all the

00:59:36.670 --> 00:59:40.670
awards going. How can you be creative in that

00:59:40.670 --> 00:59:42.329
environment? You can't. You can't. And so we

00:59:42.329 --> 00:59:45.440
just figured. Let's get on a raft. Especially

00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:47.739
someone like you. So if people don't know, I

00:59:47.739 --> 00:59:49.840
should probably tell everybody. You are Tatiana

00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.639
McGrath. So, yeah. Well, here's what's funny

00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:56.500
about that. Your satirical character who you

00:59:56.500 --> 00:59:58.619
created many, many years ago, when did you create

00:59:58.619 --> 01:00:02.719
her? 2018. Okay. When you created her, I had

01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:05.119
you on the podcast shortly after. We laughed

01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:09.199
about it. I have seen her quote tweeted with

01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:12.500
people agreeing with her. Yeah. Yeah. Even now.

01:00:12.889 --> 01:00:17.829
Yeah, all the time. So I, yeah, if people don't

01:00:17.829 --> 01:00:19.309
know, it's a character called Titania McGrath.

01:00:19.550 --> 01:00:22.170
She's a woke social justice warrior, right? It's

01:00:22.170 --> 01:00:26.190
so good. It's fucking great. It's one of my favorite

01:00:26.190 --> 01:00:29.010
follows. But, you know, I don't do it as often

01:00:29.010 --> 01:00:30.250
as I used to. You know, I used to do it all the

01:00:30.250 --> 01:00:32.530
time. But then I wrote two books as her. I did

01:00:32.530 --> 01:00:36.389
a live show as her. And by the way, when I did

01:00:36.389 --> 01:00:38.130
a live show, we were booked in for a week in

01:00:38.130 --> 01:00:40.250
the West End in London. And then the head of

01:00:40.250 --> 01:00:43.030
the theater found out and scotched it and actually

01:00:43.030 --> 01:00:45.210
said, oh, well, I didn't know about this. And

01:00:45.210 --> 01:00:47.010
the contracts are all signed. Absolutely crazy.

01:00:47.110 --> 01:00:49.190
Anyway, it doesn't matter. But we did the show.

01:00:49.250 --> 01:00:51.550
It does matter. It does matter, I suppose. But

01:00:51.550 --> 01:00:53.469
the point is that, you know, so I did this character.

01:00:53.670 --> 01:00:57.190
Do you have satire at your theater? My God. Well,

01:00:57.190 --> 01:00:59.230
the theater industry in the UK is even worse

01:00:59.230 --> 01:01:01.349
than comedy if you want to go there. It's really,

01:01:01.389 --> 01:01:05.730
really bad. Like, I've been in two different

01:01:05.730 --> 01:01:08.489
theatres in London. I've had the same experience

01:01:08.489 --> 01:01:11.070
of standing at the bar with a woman complaining

01:01:11.070 --> 01:01:13.690
because there's men pissing in her toilet and

01:01:13.690 --> 01:01:15.309
they're doing nothing about it. Because all the

01:01:15.309 --> 01:01:16.769
theatres in London have made it all gender neutral.

01:01:16.869 --> 01:01:19.349
They've gone completely hardcore woke. Anyway,

01:01:19.389 --> 01:01:21.650
that's not the point. But with Titania, what

01:01:21.650 --> 01:01:24.449
I find so surprising is every now and then if

01:01:24.449 --> 01:01:26.349
something annoys me, I'll tweet. Or if I think

01:01:26.349 --> 01:01:27.329
of something, I'll do something. I don't do it

01:01:27.329 --> 01:01:29.130
anywhere near as often as I used to. But even

01:01:29.130 --> 01:01:32.619
now... I did a tweet about, you know, when all

01:01:32.619 --> 01:01:35.099
the people in London were marching about the

01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:37.579
peace deal in the Middle East. And I did a tweet

01:01:37.579 --> 01:01:39.880
as her saying, I've been marching all day. You

01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:42.380
know, I want a peace deal that was not arranged

01:01:42.380 --> 01:01:44.239
by Donald Trump. We're never going to give up

01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.440
this fight. Right. And Ted Cruz retweeted it

01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:53.099
saying, can this be real? Even now. These fucking

01:01:53.099 --> 01:01:55.719
boomers. He's not even a boomer. He's not even

01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:57.739
a boomer. I think he's younger than me. How old

01:01:57.739 --> 01:01:59.840
is Ted Cruz? I think he's younger than me, which

01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:01.320
is hilarious. I had the same with, I did one

01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:03.199
about, how does he not know? Does he have no

01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:06.340
friends? How old is fucking Ted Cruz? Okay, that's

01:02:06.340 --> 01:02:08.440
crazy. So that dude's three years younger than

01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:12.739
me, and he doesn't know satire? The anger I got

01:02:12.739 --> 01:02:14.559
from, I did one the other day recently about

01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:17.840
the Iran protest. Can I just stop? Yeah, yeah,

01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:19.780
yeah. I want to get into this. Okay. When did

01:02:19.780 --> 01:02:22.800
he tweet about this? A year ago. That's hilarious.

01:02:23.260 --> 01:02:26.079
Yeah. That account... There it is, there it is.

01:02:26.119 --> 01:02:29.119
How many follows does... Okay, so this... Oh,

01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:31.920
sorry. This is possibly real. Well, obviously

01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:34.139
it's not. So this was actually after Trump's

01:02:34.139 --> 01:02:36.460
election. So she said, I just fired my immigrant

01:02:36.460 --> 01:02:38.460
housekeeper because even though I'd educated

01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:40.659
her about the evils of Donald Trump, she still

01:02:40.659 --> 01:02:42.739
voted for him. There's no place for racism in

01:02:42.739 --> 01:02:45.239
my house. Click on your account. I want to see

01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:49.699
how many followers you have. Okay, 733 ,000.

01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:54.900
That's a famous account. Like... Radical intersexualist

01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:58.940
poet, non -white, obviously white, ecosexual,

01:02:59.179 --> 01:03:02.820
hilarious, pronouns, variable, selfless and brave,

01:03:02.980 --> 01:03:05.579
buy my books. You'd think it was obvious, wouldn't

01:03:05.579 --> 01:03:09.719
you? Obvious! I mean, maybe he's busy. Maybe

01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:12.179
he's busy and someone sent him that and he just

01:03:12.179 --> 01:03:15.840
doesn't know. But it's very funny. It's very

01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:17.860
funny. I feel slightly bad about it. about those

01:03:17.860 --> 01:03:19.480
sort of things. But then on the other hand, it

01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:22.320
does sort of prove the point that the stuff they're

01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:26.059
really saying can get as close. Oh, that's very

01:03:26.059 --> 01:03:28.219
close to real. Yeah. That's very close to real.

01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:32.699
And it's shifted radically since 2018. I mean,

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:35.780
in the eight years since you created her, she

01:03:35.780 --> 01:03:38.860
has become like more real. Yeah. It's like when

01:03:38.860 --> 01:03:41.280
AI is going to turn her into a real person. Yeah.

01:03:41.320 --> 01:03:43.949
Like, oh, maybe. I hadn't even thought of that.

01:03:43.969 --> 01:03:45.670
She's going to be a real person. She's going

01:03:45.670 --> 01:03:47.969
to be a real dangerous Greta Thunberg type character.

01:03:48.269 --> 01:03:49.510
But don't you worry about that? I mean, like

01:03:49.510 --> 01:03:53.050
AI. Oh, a good example of that. I use AI mostly

01:03:53.050 --> 01:03:54.989
as a search engine. Because what's great about

01:03:54.989 --> 01:03:56.949
it is you can say, oh, I read an article like

01:03:56.949 --> 01:03:58.789
10 years ago that said something like this. Yes.

01:03:58.949 --> 01:04:00.269
And it will find it. And you'd never find that

01:04:00.269 --> 01:04:02.190
on Google. Right. And I was trying to find this

01:04:02.190 --> 01:04:03.809
article. It was from my book, actually. There

01:04:03.809 --> 01:04:07.929
was a case in the UK where a guy had raped a

01:04:07.929 --> 01:04:11.440
13 -year -old girl. But because he was... He

01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:13.480
was Muslim and he'd gone to a madrasa and the

01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:15.539
judge let him off jail time, said you were very

01:04:15.539 --> 01:04:18.159
sexually naive, you didn't understand. The guy

01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:19.840
was saying, oh, I thought women were nothing

01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:21.539
and like a lollipop you dropped on the floor

01:04:21.539 --> 01:04:23.139
and the judge let him off jail time. And I thought

01:04:23.139 --> 01:04:26.360
this is quite extreme. And I found it. It came

01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:29.019
up on ChatGPT and then it deleted. And I said,

01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.400
oh, I think you just deleted the information

01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:32.780
for me. It's in the public domain. Why did you

01:04:32.780 --> 01:04:35.639
do that? It said, oh. You know, it's fine. It

01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:37.440
might violate my terms of service. And I said,

01:04:37.460 --> 01:04:38.780
well, how could it? This is an article that's

01:04:38.780 --> 01:04:40.500
in the public domain. So it gave me the information

01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:43.300
again, deleted it again. I said, you keep deleting

01:04:43.300 --> 01:04:45.539
this, stop it. It said, I definitely won't delete

01:04:45.539 --> 01:04:46.940
it. Then it did the same again. So what it's

01:04:46.940 --> 01:04:48.860
doing is it's saying, because this is a news

01:04:48.860 --> 01:04:52.039
story that could be deemed anti -immigrant, or

01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:53.619
this is a news story that is politically sensitive,

01:04:53.820 --> 01:04:55.800
I'm not going to let you see it. Was this in

01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:59.369
America you were doing this? UK. I wonder if

01:04:59.369 --> 01:05:01.469
he could do it in America. Let's find out. Well,

01:05:01.789 --> 01:05:04.489
let's try perplexity. Put that into perplexity.

01:05:04.550 --> 01:05:06.510
I doubt that perplexity would happen. I have

01:05:06.510 --> 01:05:08.469
to find the article he was using. I don't know

01:05:08.469 --> 01:05:09.750
what article he looked up. Well, why don't you

01:05:09.750 --> 01:05:12.250
just ask the question that he asked. It's 10

01:05:12.250 --> 01:05:16.210
years ago. So it's a story about a – that would

01:05:16.210 --> 01:05:19.690
take a while to – Will it? I mean – Maybe he

01:05:19.690 --> 01:05:21.449
didn't do it 10 years ago. He did it recently.

01:05:22.259 --> 01:05:24.280
No, no, it was a story. It's a story from years

01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:26.639
ago. Right. But you found it with ChatGPT, which

01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:28.880
is obviously recently. I found a Daily Mail article

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:30.619
about it. So it's on public domain. It's there.

01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:33.460
But it just it just it didn't want me to find

01:05:33.460 --> 01:05:36.579
the fact that it decided wasn't good for me to

01:05:36.579 --> 01:05:38.900
find. Right. But it showed it to you and then

01:05:38.900 --> 01:05:40.920
it pulled it back, which is crazy. How does it

01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:43.880
not know? It showed it and deleted it. It showed

01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:46.219
it and deleted it four or five times. And I realized,

01:05:46.539 --> 01:05:49.159
I'm not going to get this information. So when

01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:50.900
it showed it, how long did it show it for? Like

01:05:50.900 --> 01:05:53.559
about five seconds. You'd see the text appearing

01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:55.900
and then it deletes. But I'd seen enough to find

01:05:55.900 --> 01:05:57.599
it then on Google. So I was able to find it and

01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:00.840
quote it in my book. So it's there. But it made

01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.900
me think, it's like that thing about when people

01:06:02.900 --> 01:06:05.380
were asking Alexa, you know, do white lives matter?

01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:09.760
And it was coming up with this kind of very ideological.

01:06:10.409 --> 01:06:13.070
And you do wonder with AI and with the computers,

01:06:13.170 --> 01:06:15.429
you know, if they are created by people who have

01:06:15.429 --> 01:06:18.250
that bias. I know Grok is very different. But

01:06:18.250 --> 01:06:20.469
like, for instance, I mean, this is a crazy example.

01:06:21.909 --> 01:06:24.829
ChatGBT is like an old school mom that wants

01:06:24.829 --> 01:06:27.760
to make sure that you're protected. Right. I

01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:29.340
was writing. This sounds really wanky. I'm sorry,

01:06:29.420 --> 01:06:31.800
but I was writing about the Roman historian Suetonius.

01:06:32.019 --> 01:06:34.059
And there's a passage in Suetonius where he talks

01:06:34.059 --> 01:06:36.360
about the emperor Tiberius. And it's very sexually

01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:38.219
explicit. But I was quoting it for an article.

01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:40.280
So I wanted to know what it said. And Chachi

01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:42.360
PT said, I can't translate the Latin for you

01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:47.179
because this is too sexually problematic. I went

01:06:47.179 --> 01:06:49.260
on to Grok and it did it straight away because

01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:53.239
Grok isn't saying that you are too delicate to

01:06:53.239 --> 01:06:54.900
read this stuff. And what's really funny about

01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:58.739
that is the old. Dual translations of the old

01:06:58.739 --> 01:07:01.159
Roman and Greek texts. They're called lerb editions.

01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.900
You get them from 1900. They translated everything

01:07:04.900 --> 01:07:06.539
except for the rude bits, which they kept in

01:07:06.539 --> 01:07:11.360
Latin. So Chad GPT is like the old patronizing

01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:13.980
scholars of old who said, this is just for the

01:07:13.980 --> 01:07:16.639
learned people. You can't learn this stuff. Well,

01:07:16.639 --> 01:07:20.139
wasn't the worst, the first iteration of Google

01:07:20.139 --> 01:07:22.780
Gemini, that was the worst cases. That turned

01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:27.820
Nazi soldiers into black. I don't know how that's

01:07:27.820 --> 01:07:31.019
a positive message. They showed us photos of

01:07:31.019 --> 01:07:33.800
German soldiers from World War II, and it was

01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:37.719
all interracial. Yeah, and Vikings. Yes. I mean,

01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:40.920
I don't know if you've been to Scandinavia. Diversity,

01:07:41.019 --> 01:07:42.539
not their big thing. Or certainly wasn't then.

01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:47.739
It's so silly. The Vikings came and marauded

01:07:47.739 --> 01:07:49.500
and raped and set fire to villages, but at least

01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.440
they were diverse. Hey, you know, at least they

01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:54.219
had a broad range of ethnicities. But I mean,

01:07:54.219 --> 01:07:58.019
we're nearing a time in America where white people

01:07:58.019 --> 01:08:01.000
are not the majority anymore. So at what point

01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.480
in time does that stop? And we just call people

01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:05.179
what they are, just people. But doesn't it bother

01:08:05.179 --> 01:08:07.599
you a bit that the thing about that kind of thing

01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:10.219
is this, as I say, this obsession with group

01:08:10.219 --> 01:08:14.159
identity, which is so of our time. What it now

01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:16.899
actually means is the revision of history. If

01:08:16.899 --> 01:08:19.140
you're going to revise history and say, oh, actually,

01:08:19.180 --> 01:08:21.159
you've seen all these sort of period dramas set

01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:23.380
in England. There was a black Anne Boleyn, as

01:08:23.380 --> 01:08:24.880
though Henry VIII would have married a black

01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:27.279
woman. No, he wouldn't. What if she was hot?

01:08:27.739 --> 01:08:30.729
She was a very attractive woman. I'm not mocking

01:08:30.729 --> 01:08:32.729
her or knocking her. But back then. What I'm

01:08:32.729 --> 01:08:34.229
saying is you can do anything with colorblind.

01:08:34.449 --> 01:08:35.909
Colorblind casting has never really particularly

01:08:35.909 --> 01:08:38.329
bothered me. But it's when you are in a if you're

01:08:38.329 --> 01:08:41.449
playing hyper realism. If you're playing verisimilitude,

01:08:41.529 --> 01:08:43.390
you want people to buy into the reality of it.

01:08:43.470 --> 01:08:46.029
And you're suddenly populating Edwardian England

01:08:46.029 --> 01:08:48.630
or pre -Edwardian England as an ethnically diverse

01:08:48.630 --> 01:08:50.750
place, which it wasn't. I'm not saying black

01:08:50.750 --> 01:08:52.149
people weren't there, but they were very, very,

01:08:52.149 --> 01:08:54.250
very small minority. Isn't that a problem in

01:08:54.250 --> 01:08:58.140
the new Odyssey? Helen of Troy is black. Well,

01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:00.340
I say that. I just saw it online, so I might

01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:01.699
be being tricked by someone making something

01:09:01.699 --> 01:09:04.680
up. You know, I caveat that. I think Helen of

01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:06.840
Troy is black in the new Odyssey. Well, let's

01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:11.739
find out. Can we check that one? All right. If

01:09:11.739 --> 01:09:14.199
it's true, I'll tell you why I think that's ridiculous.

01:09:14.220 --> 01:09:16.600
How far do we have to swing the pendulum until

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:20.340
Roots is redone with white people? Can you imagine?

01:09:21.130 --> 01:09:23.350
Or an all -black Schindler's List. Right, right,

01:09:23.409 --> 01:09:25.609
right. Can you imagine? Helen of Troy to be portrayed

01:09:25.609 --> 01:09:28.050
by a black actress in a new Odyssey movie. And

01:09:28.050 --> 01:09:29.609
look, I'm sure she's very talented. I'm not knocking

01:09:29.609 --> 01:09:31.729
her. But the thing about the Greek, the thing

01:09:31.729 --> 01:09:34.069
about Helen of Troy, who probably didn't exist.

01:09:34.170 --> 01:09:35.529
I mean, even the Greeks knew she probably didn't

01:09:35.529 --> 01:09:38.130
even exist. She's a myth. She's the epitome of

01:09:38.130 --> 01:09:42.270
Greek beauty. She's described all the time in

01:09:42.270 --> 01:09:45.590
the ancient texts as fair and blonde. And they're

01:09:45.590 --> 01:09:48.310
reaching for an ideal of beauty. That's why they

01:09:48.310 --> 01:09:51.130
went to war because of this woman. So they wouldn't

01:09:51.130 --> 01:09:53.109
choose what they used to call an Ethiop. The

01:09:53.109 --> 01:09:55.529
Greeks had a word for it, the black African people.

01:09:55.689 --> 01:09:58.010
They wouldn't choose an icon of cultural beauty

01:09:58.010 --> 01:09:59.350
from a different culture. They wouldn't have

01:09:59.350 --> 01:10:01.729
done that. You know, it's all very well saying

01:10:01.729 --> 01:10:03.850
Greeks and Mediterranean people and, you know,

01:10:03.850 --> 01:10:06.109
wouldn't have been pure white. But Helena of

01:10:06.109 --> 01:10:08.489
Troy is a very specific and it's actually quite

01:10:08.489 --> 01:10:13.130
important to the plot. And again, if you're doing

01:10:13.130 --> 01:10:15.270
a look, for instance, when they did the all black

01:10:15.270 --> 01:10:17.810
Wizard of Oz, the Wiz. I imagine that in the

01:10:17.810 --> 01:10:20.050
late 60s would have been quite radical and fun

01:10:20.050 --> 01:10:21.770
and wow, I can't believe they did that. That's

01:10:21.770 --> 01:10:23.970
brilliant. But doing it now, it's really boring

01:10:23.970 --> 01:10:25.329
because everyone is doing it. It's basically

01:10:25.329 --> 01:10:28.670
saying group identity is everything and you people

01:10:28.670 --> 01:10:30.210
can't be racist and so therefore we're going

01:10:30.210 --> 01:10:33.289
to do this. But it sometimes throws you out of

01:10:33.289 --> 01:10:35.369
the... Actually, I'll tell you the worst example.

01:10:35.510 --> 01:10:37.649
Did you ever see Darkest Hour, the Winston Churchill

01:10:37.649 --> 01:10:40.550
film? No. So, you know, obviously he took on

01:10:40.550 --> 01:10:41.970
Parliament. He said, we're not going to appease

01:10:41.970 --> 01:10:44.789
Hitler. There's a scene in the film, Gary Oldman

01:10:44.789 --> 01:10:47.130
plays him. He goes down into the tube, the underground,

01:10:47.310 --> 01:10:49.710
and he's wrestling with his conscience. And there's

01:10:49.710 --> 01:10:51.149
loads of black people on the tube. There's white

01:10:51.149 --> 01:10:52.189
people too, but there's loads of black people.

01:10:52.229 --> 01:10:54.609
The public convince him, no, you need to stand

01:10:54.609 --> 01:10:57.369
up for Hitler. Now, we know that Churchill wasn't,

01:10:57.369 --> 01:10:59.569
was a bit of a racist, didn't really like the,

01:10:59.590 --> 01:11:01.890
you know, fine. He was of his time. I'm not saying

01:11:01.890 --> 01:11:03.529
anything more than that. He was of his time.

01:11:03.810 --> 01:11:06.449
But that, it was so unreal. It was so unreal.

01:11:06.529 --> 01:11:08.630
It was so, it was almost like the filmmakers

01:11:08.630 --> 01:11:11.149
were saying, racism's never been a problem in

01:11:11.149 --> 01:11:13.710
the UK. Well, actually it has. And I kind of

01:11:13.710 --> 01:11:18.250
think this is, although it's ostensibly progressive,

01:11:18.550 --> 01:11:20.189
I think it does the reverse. I think it says,

01:11:20.289 --> 01:11:22.850
we never had a problem with race. We were all

01:11:22.850 --> 01:11:25.489
wonderful, kumbaya. No, we weren't. And actually,

01:11:25.569 --> 01:11:28.750
the abolitionists, the Thomas Henry Huxleys of

01:11:28.750 --> 01:11:31.010
the world, the people who had to fight for racial

01:11:31.010 --> 01:11:33.409
equality and parity, they had something to fight

01:11:33.409 --> 01:11:37.630
against, misrepresenting stuff in the arts. And

01:11:37.630 --> 01:11:38.869
then beyond, I'm sorry I'm ranting now because

01:11:38.869 --> 01:11:41.210
it really bothered me, but beyond that, it throws

01:11:41.210 --> 01:11:43.739
you out of it in a way. that you suddenly think,

01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:45.819
I'm no longer watching a film. I'm watching a

01:11:45.819 --> 01:11:49.159
sermon. Oh, so this happened to me last week.

01:11:49.260 --> 01:11:51.960
Have you seen the Netflix series Ripley about

01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:54.180
the talented Mr. Ripley? No, I have not. Right.

01:11:54.340 --> 01:11:56.060
Now, you remember there used to be that film

01:11:56.060 --> 01:11:58.399
with Matt Damon years ago. It's the same story,

01:11:58.420 --> 01:12:00.420
same novel, an old Patricia Highsmith novel.

01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:04.119
One of the main male characters in that TV series

01:12:04.119 --> 01:12:06.800
is a brilliant, like Andrew Scott is in it. Performances

01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:08.500
are brilliant. They play it hyper -realistically.

01:12:08.619 --> 01:12:10.159
It's all black and white. It looks beautiful.

01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:12.960
On the Amalfi Coast, it's wonderful. Everything's

01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:14.079
working brilliantly. And I was thinking, this

01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:15.680
is great. I'm not being preached at. This is

01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:18.319
great. Then a major male character turns up,

01:12:18.340 --> 01:12:20.880
played by a woman who calls herself non -binary.

01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:25.739
And not only are we meant to believe that that's

01:12:25.739 --> 01:12:28.779
a man, the characters don't notice that it's

01:12:28.779 --> 01:12:31.859
a woman in a man's clothes. So we're meant to

01:12:31.859 --> 01:12:35.800
believe that these characters don't even... Ripley

01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:39.260
doesn't say, why is she wearing a suit? This

01:12:39.260 --> 01:12:42.479
is set in the 60s, by the way. I think if they

01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:44.420
wanted to change the novel and create a kind

01:12:44.420 --> 01:12:46.359
of, you know, like one of those Butch Dykes of

01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:49.359
the day who used to go for sort of like... Or

01:12:49.359 --> 01:12:52.159
a dress like Ellen. Yeah, or the androgynous

01:12:52.159 --> 01:12:54.699
type. Those people have always existed. Why not

01:12:54.699 --> 01:12:56.859
change the character to make it a female character

01:12:56.859 --> 01:12:59.539
who likes looking like a man? Why not do that?

01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:03.460
Why tell us, you know, this is a man. You have

01:13:03.460 --> 01:13:06.229
to believe it's a man. Do you see what I mean?

01:13:06.250 --> 01:13:08.270
It throws you out of the room. It's crazy. I

01:13:08.270 --> 01:13:10.310
no longer believe in this. I have to stop watching

01:13:10.310 --> 01:13:13.350
it because I no longer believed in it. Well,

01:13:13.350 --> 01:13:15.869
I think the problem, the real problem with trying

01:13:15.869 --> 01:13:17.850
to shove that down people's throats is it creates

01:13:17.850 --> 01:13:20.750
the opposite reaction. Right, right. It creates

01:13:20.750 --> 01:13:24.430
homophobia, transphobia, and racism because it

01:13:24.430 --> 01:13:27.390
doesn't create it, but it makes them feel like

01:13:27.390 --> 01:13:30.149
they have a point. Well, you've seen recently

01:13:30.149 --> 01:13:33.189
that the polls regarding... Gay rights in the

01:13:33.189 --> 01:13:35.130
US seem to be going down. Tumbling support for

01:13:35.130 --> 01:13:37.949
gay rights, support for gay marriage. We've had,

01:13:38.010 --> 01:13:39.670
I think, a number of states trying to overturn

01:13:39.670 --> 01:13:42.789
the gay marriage legislation. And the reason

01:13:42.789 --> 01:13:45.479
for all of that, I think, is because... Being

01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:49.800
gay has been tied to this LGBTQIA identity -obsessed

01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:53.680
movement that has also involved the medicalisation

01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:56.699
of kids, sterilisation of kids, twerking in front

01:13:56.699 --> 01:13:59.020
of children, all of that stuff. And now people

01:13:59.020 --> 01:14:01.000
are saying, this is because you gave us gay marriage,

01:14:01.100 --> 01:14:02.939
this is because you let the gays marry. And because

01:14:02.939 --> 01:14:04.960
of that, you've allowed all this other stuff,

01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:06.699
you've opened this box and everything else has

01:14:06.699 --> 01:14:09.319
tumbled out. And that's not true. That's not

01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:11.960
true because the fundamental point about the

01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:15.510
belief in gender identity... is it is fundamentally

01:14:15.510 --> 01:14:18.489
anti -gay as a principle. Because what it says

01:14:18.489 --> 01:14:20.489
is, I know I'm telling you something you already

01:14:20.489 --> 01:14:24.050
know, but gay rights was predicated on the idea

01:14:24.050 --> 01:14:26.149
that there's a minority of people in every society

01:14:26.149 --> 01:14:28.369
who are attracted innately to their own biological

01:14:28.369 --> 01:14:30.670
sex. If you say biological sex doesn't matter,

01:14:30.850 --> 01:14:33.810
and actually you're attracted to a kind of gendered

01:14:33.810 --> 01:14:36.010
soul, you're attracted to an essence, you're

01:14:36.010 --> 01:14:38.609
attracted to how someone identifies. Well, firstly,

01:14:38.630 --> 01:14:39.869
you don't know gay people if you think that's

01:14:39.869 --> 01:14:41.609
the case. They're not attracted to how you see

01:14:41.609 --> 01:14:46.300
yourself. They know, gay men, I don't want to

01:14:46.300 --> 01:14:48.380
be crude, know what a penis is, right? And they

01:14:48.380 --> 01:14:52.220
know how to sniff one out. And I think this idea,

01:14:52.420 --> 01:14:54.819
this idea that they're attracted to the way that

01:14:54.819 --> 01:14:57.319
you perceive yourself. Nonsense. Not only that,

01:14:57.420 --> 01:14:59.500
then you get, you know, like in Australia at

01:14:59.500 --> 01:15:01.600
the moment, lesbians are not allowed to gather

01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:03.720
legally if there's a man who says he's a lesbian

01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:05.699
and wants to join them. That is against the law

01:15:05.699 --> 01:15:08.060
in Australia now. So you can't do that. Wait,

01:15:08.100 --> 01:15:10.340
wait a minute. What do you mean? So the Australian

01:15:10.340 --> 01:15:12.000
Human Rights Commission ruled that if you are

01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:14.600
if you have an all female event. Right. So like

01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:16.340
a lesbian gathering, maybe something like that.

01:15:17.020 --> 01:15:19.079
You have to include men who identify as women.

01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:21.760
Oh, God. Because otherwise you are discriminated.

01:15:22.760 --> 01:15:25.399
There was a woman who I interviewed on. I had

01:15:25.399 --> 01:15:27.779
a show in the UK on GB News up until recently.

01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:30.439
And I interviewed this woman called Sal Grover.

01:15:30.859 --> 01:15:32.760
And she's an Australian woman. Used to write

01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:35.539
for Hollywood, I think. And she created a woman's

01:15:35.539 --> 01:15:37.020
app, a woman's only app. And this was in the

01:15:37.020 --> 01:15:38.340
wake of Me Too, you know, so there's all that

01:15:38.340 --> 01:15:40.319
going on. And she wanted to create a space for

01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:44.300
women. And a guy called Roxanne Tickle, right?

01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:46.560
They always have these kind of stripper names.

01:15:46.579 --> 01:15:49.659
Is that a real name? Roxanne Tickle wanted to

01:15:49.659 --> 01:15:51.220
get on the app, which was called Giggle. So,

01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:52.699
by the way, this court case is called Giggle

01:15:52.699 --> 01:15:56.960
versus Tickle. I'm not kidding. Boy. And he said,

01:15:57.140 --> 01:15:59.619
he got on the app. She kicked him off because

01:15:59.619 --> 01:16:04.010
it's a bloke in a dress. And he sued. And won.

01:16:04.210 --> 01:16:06.810
And in the court case, the judge actually said,

01:16:06.909 --> 01:16:10.369
sex is changeable. Well, it's not, no matter

01:16:10.369 --> 01:16:15.689
what a guy in a wig says. But she's now appealing

01:16:15.689 --> 01:16:18.369
and going through all this stuff. Makes her life

01:16:18.369 --> 01:16:20.430
hell and then discourages anybody else in the

01:16:20.430 --> 01:16:22.890
future from ever contesting anything like that.

01:16:23.170 --> 01:16:25.369
And not only that. I mean, we've just had the

01:16:25.369 --> 01:16:27.529
other day. Was it yesterday? Did you see the

01:16:27.529 --> 01:16:31.970
girl who used to identify as trans? A girl called

01:16:31.970 --> 01:16:35.109
Fox Varian? has just won $2 million in a lawsuit.

01:16:35.890 --> 01:16:38.350
That's big because... She was 16 years old and

01:16:38.350 --> 01:16:40.829
they chopped her breasts off, which is fucking

01:16:40.829 --> 01:16:43.569
horrifying. It's the tip of the iceberg, though.

01:16:43.670 --> 01:16:46.130
Especially if you have children, you realize

01:16:46.130 --> 01:16:50.189
they change the way they think about things year

01:16:50.189 --> 01:16:56.029
to year. Children are so malleable. It's like

01:16:56.029 --> 01:16:59.270
one of the delicate dances of being a parent

01:16:59.270 --> 01:17:02.720
is that you have to love them. But you don't

01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:05.460
want to steer them in any direction. You want

01:17:05.460 --> 01:17:08.739
to let them be their own person. And, you know,

01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:11.739
it's like I tried to expose my children to a

01:17:11.739 --> 01:17:14.560
bunch of different things and find out what they

01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:17.079
enjoy. And if you do that, you find out that

01:17:17.079 --> 01:17:19.399
they're all different. They all like different

01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:22.159
stuff. They just gravitate towards different

01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:27.119
things. And if you are a domineering, overbearing,

01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:30.100
mentally ill parent, you can convince your child.

01:17:30.729 --> 01:17:33.229
Almost anything. Almost anything. I mean, this

01:17:33.229 --> 01:17:36.250
is how you get suicide bombers. Yeah, yeah. This

01:17:36.250 --> 01:17:38.109
is what it is because they're children. This

01:17:38.109 --> 01:17:40.890
is why you don't get 55 -year -old union guys

01:17:40.890 --> 01:17:42.829
who become suicide bombers. They're like, what?

01:17:43.149 --> 01:17:47.159
And of course. I get 72 virgins? What? It's not

01:17:47.159 --> 01:17:50.500
going to work. But you can get young, impressionable

01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:52.699
children and you can convince them of almost

01:17:52.699 --> 01:17:54.500
anything. Convincing them that they're actually

01:17:54.500 --> 01:17:57.539
a woman in a man's body and don't you want to

01:17:57.539 --> 01:17:59.739
be a woman and let's get you on hormone blockers.

01:17:59.760 --> 01:18:02.239
Okay, mom. And then all of a sudden you're ruining

01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:04.199
this child's life. But also, I mean, there will

01:18:04.199 --> 01:18:06.920
be kids who are struggling with how they see

01:18:06.920 --> 01:18:08.600
themselves in the world. There's girls in particular

01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:10.850
who... You know, they're developing into women

01:18:10.850 --> 01:18:12.289
and they don't like the sexual attention they're

01:18:12.289 --> 01:18:13.850
getting. They'd love to identify. This is Abigail

01:18:13.850 --> 01:18:16.949
Schreier's book. Right. Especially autistic girls.

01:18:17.250 --> 01:18:19.329
Well, that's another point. So this is the other

01:18:19.329 --> 01:18:22.329
reason why I think the movement is essentially

01:18:22.329 --> 01:18:26.109
anti -gay. Because, you know, the Tavistock Pediatric

01:18:26.109 --> 01:18:29.489
Clinic in London, which was an NHS gender clinic,

01:18:29.569 --> 01:18:31.289
which has been closed as a result of the CAST

01:18:31.289 --> 01:18:34.289
review, this report into pediatric gender care.

01:18:35.050 --> 01:18:37.590
They found there's a book by Hannah Barnes called

01:18:37.590 --> 01:18:39.430
Time to Think, which found that between 80 and

01:18:39.430 --> 01:18:42.289
90 percent of all adolescents referred to that

01:18:42.289 --> 01:18:44.029
clinic were same sex attracted. So they were

01:18:44.029 --> 01:18:46.869
either gay or lesbian or bisexual. Now, that

01:18:46.869 --> 01:18:48.689
means you've effectively got gay conversion therapy

01:18:48.689 --> 01:18:52.949
going on on the NHS. And so, you know, I had,

01:18:53.010 --> 01:18:55.489
you know, I'm friends with a couple of lesbians

01:18:55.489 --> 01:18:57.890
who run the LGB Alliance in London. They have

01:18:57.890 --> 01:18:59.510
an annual conference for gay rights and they're

01:18:59.510 --> 01:19:02.100
talking about gay rights. You know, these. Young

01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:05.199
non -binary identified people broke in, unleashed

01:19:05.199 --> 01:19:10.140
locusts and crickets and insects, a plague of

01:19:10.140 --> 01:19:12.319
fucking locusts into a gay rights conference.

01:19:12.699 --> 01:19:14.300
Isn't that the sort of thing neo -Nazis used

01:19:14.300 --> 01:19:18.600
to do? Right. So, I mean, I, you know, I think

01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:20.859
you need to have sympathy with people and whatever

01:19:20.859 --> 01:19:22.699
they're going through. But don't tell a child

01:19:22.699 --> 01:19:24.880
if a child tells you, I think I'm in the wrong

01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:27.239
body. Don't say yes. Say that's not possible.

01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:29.880
Human beings can't change sex, but let's explore

01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:32.340
psychotherapeutically what needs to happen. Let's

01:19:32.340 --> 01:19:34.539
look at Los Angeles, which is, in my opinion,

01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:37.060
one of the most mentally ill spots in this country.

01:19:37.500 --> 01:19:39.800
It's a very weird place. That's why you left.

01:19:40.250 --> 01:19:41.789
Well, I mean, I left for a bunch of reasons.

01:19:42.449 --> 01:19:44.369
Mostly I really left because they were telling

01:19:44.369 --> 01:19:46.909
us we can't do comedy. Oh, yeah. Well, that'll

01:19:46.909 --> 01:19:48.649
do it. They closed down the comedy clubs and

01:19:48.649 --> 01:19:51.489
Texas was open. So the primary reason. And also

01:19:51.489 --> 01:19:53.729
restaurants. I just knew where it was going.

01:19:53.909 --> 01:19:56.229
But the point is, like, Los Angeles is a very

01:19:56.229 --> 01:20:01.239
mentally ill place. Like, if you just. looked

01:20:01.239 --> 01:20:04.659
at just the sheer numbers of people that are

01:20:04.659 --> 01:20:07.680
medicated and fucked up. If that's the place

01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:10.180
that's dictating the tone for the rest of the

01:20:10.180 --> 01:20:12.479
world, that's dangerous. Because these are a

01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:14.300
lot of people that just desperately want attention.

01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:17.140
They desperately want to get accepted. They have

01:20:17.140 --> 01:20:19.199
to go through the audition process. So they have

01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.439
to change who they are to talk to the producers,

01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:24.140
to try to form themselves into something to be

01:20:24.140 --> 01:20:27.529
accepted. There's a disproportionate. Amount

01:20:27.529 --> 01:20:30.250
of trans kids that are involved in Hollywood

01:20:30.250 --> 01:20:33.270
families. It's yeah, largely district disproportionate

01:20:33.270 --> 01:20:36.109
of course some of them have two Trans kids three

01:20:36.109 --> 01:20:38.689
trans kids. It's like what the fuck is going

01:20:38.689 --> 01:20:41.909
on here. This is not normal This is not this

01:20:41.909 --> 01:20:45.550
is not no influence whatsoever. This is You're

01:20:45.550 --> 01:20:48.069
using that child as a virtue flag you're flying

01:20:48.069 --> 01:20:51.670
that child as a trans flag in the front of your

01:20:51.670 --> 01:20:53.729
porch I have a trans kid, but don't you think

01:20:53.729 --> 01:20:57.130
that? like a lawsuit like this, that's going

01:20:57.130 --> 01:20:58.770
to change things because no one's going to ensure

01:20:58.770 --> 01:21:01.510
that kind of procedure anymore. That's a surgeon

01:21:01.510 --> 01:21:03.310
and a psychotherapist who are now lumbered with

01:21:03.310 --> 01:21:05.310
a $2 million bill for their negligence. Yes,

01:21:05.529 --> 01:21:07.489
and it's going to open up the floodgates for

01:21:07.489 --> 01:21:09.409
all these other lawyers to start pouncing on

01:21:09.409 --> 01:21:10.869
all these other cases. Yeah, that's what I mean.

01:21:11.010 --> 01:21:14.149
The horrible thing about these cases is not just

01:21:14.149 --> 01:21:16.590
that these children have their lives ruined by

01:21:16.590 --> 01:21:20.029
these surgeries and have been sterilized. It's

01:21:20.029 --> 01:21:24.069
also that they've been attacked. So ruthlessly.

01:21:24.250 --> 01:21:26.869
You mean you're talking about children that have

01:21:26.869 --> 01:21:30.270
made a mistake or someone coerced them into making

01:21:30.270 --> 01:21:32.289
this mistake that's changed their body for the

01:21:32.289 --> 01:21:34.430
rest of their life and they're getting attacked

01:21:34.430 --> 01:21:37.449
online. Yeah. Can you imagine being a fragile

01:21:37.449 --> 01:21:40.069
child already who's willing to go through this

01:21:40.069 --> 01:21:42.350
procedure, can't believe they did it. Now they

01:21:42.350 --> 01:21:44.569
don't have breasts anymore. Their voice is deep

01:21:44.569 --> 01:21:46.989
forever. They're all fucked up. Yeah. And then

01:21:46.989 --> 01:21:50.130
people are screaming at them online. Yeah. And

01:21:50.130 --> 01:21:53.220
it's crazy. But, you know, this is how the satanic

01:21:53.220 --> 01:21:56.420
child abuse panic of the 80s. Yes, exactly. This

01:21:56.420 --> 01:21:58.560
came to an end because of lawsuits. When, you

01:21:58.560 --> 01:22:00.060
know, when they started, when they realized that

01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:01.960
these psychotherapists have been using these

01:22:01.960 --> 01:22:04.539
leading questions, effectively telling them you've

01:22:04.539 --> 01:22:06.520
repressed the memory. You know, there was that

01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:08.859
book, The Courage to Heal, where it said, if

01:22:08.859 --> 01:22:10.600
you think you might have been abused, you probably

01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:13.100
were. Like such a reckless thing to say. Right.

01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:17.020
And all these people accused, you know, carers,

01:22:17.060 --> 01:22:21.609
parents. None of it was true. But when they started

01:22:21.609 --> 01:22:25.130
suing the psychotherapist, it all collapsed.

01:22:25.289 --> 01:22:28.470
Right. And I wonder whether hysteria can collapse

01:22:28.470 --> 01:22:31.409
if you... actually money talks. Well, it's already

01:22:31.409 --> 01:22:34.289
shifted in this general direction because of

01:22:34.289 --> 01:22:36.909
Elon buying Twitter. When Elon bought Twitter,

01:22:37.109 --> 01:22:39.630
the amount of trans -identified kids started

01:22:39.630 --> 01:22:41.750
to drop off. The amount of non -binary -identified

01:22:41.750 --> 01:22:44.250
kids started to drop off. And that, I think,

01:22:44.250 --> 01:22:46.409
is a direct result of people being able to say

01:22:46.409 --> 01:22:48.829
what they really think. Because in the past,

01:22:48.949 --> 01:22:51.810
like my friend Megan Murphy, she was banned off

01:22:51.810 --> 01:22:54.390
of Twitter until Elon bought it because she said

01:22:54.390 --> 01:22:56.369
a man is never a woman. That's all she said.

01:22:56.510 --> 01:22:58.529
A man is never a woman. She was arguing with

01:22:58.529 --> 01:23:01.500
people about Biological males who identify as

01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:03.380
women being able to get into women's spaces and

01:23:03.380 --> 01:23:05.659
she said a man is never a woman banned forever

01:23:05.659 --> 01:23:08.260
Yeah, so no one wanted to talk about they see

01:23:08.260 --> 01:23:10.000
there was no real discourse and if there's no

01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:12.979
real discourse Then you can push a goofy ideology

01:23:12.979 --> 01:23:15.979
pretty fucking far But as soon as people jump

01:23:15.979 --> 01:23:19.279
on board and start posting funny memes and and

01:23:19.279 --> 01:23:21.500
Elon says it's open season do whatever you want

01:23:21.500 --> 01:23:23.960
Yeah, and he calls it the woke mind virus and

01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:26.470
everybody's like Piling in. Well, then you have

01:23:26.470 --> 01:23:30.210
discourse and then anything that's absurd immediately

01:23:30.210 --> 01:23:33.090
gets shot down because people say, no, this doesn't

01:23:33.090 --> 01:23:35.850
make any sense. This is crazy. It comes back

01:23:35.850 --> 01:23:37.550
to what you say. You said about debate. You said

01:23:37.550 --> 01:23:40.810
about discourse. I mean, I just saw today just

01:23:40.810 --> 01:23:43.350
on Twitter because I'm always on it. But I saw

01:23:43.350 --> 01:23:45.930
John Lithgow, you know, the actor, brilliant

01:23:45.930 --> 01:23:48.489
actor who plays Dumbledore in the new Harry Potter

01:23:48.489 --> 01:23:50.470
thing, saying that J .K. Rowling's views are

01:23:50.470 --> 01:23:53.529
inexplicable. Inexplicable. It means you haven't

01:23:53.529 --> 01:23:56.649
read them. Like J .K. Rowling is for women's

01:23:56.649 --> 01:23:58.970
rights and she recognizes that women's rights

01:23:58.970 --> 01:24:01.909
depend on the recognition of biological sex for

01:24:01.909 --> 01:24:04.090
the preservation of single sex spaces. It's as

01:24:04.090 --> 01:24:06.350
simple as that. All he has to do is read the

01:24:06.350 --> 01:24:08.550
essay she wrote on her blog about eight years

01:24:08.550 --> 01:24:11.430
ago. He's not even sufficiently intellectually

01:24:11.430 --> 01:24:14.149
curious to do that. And he goes out and says

01:24:14.149 --> 01:24:16.550
it's inexplicable. Women's rights and gay rights

01:24:16.550 --> 01:24:19.439
are inexplicable. Really? Or are you just not

01:24:19.439 --> 01:24:20.939
having the conversation? You're just shutting

01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:23.079
yourself up and saying, my friends have said

01:24:23.079 --> 01:24:26.949
she's evil. Not criticized hard enough. but would

01:24:26.949 --> 01:24:29.470
be criticized if he supported J .K. Rowling.

01:24:29.529 --> 01:24:31.609
If he supported J .K. Rowling, he would be attacked.

01:24:31.850 --> 01:24:34.310
So it's a calculation you're saying? Yes. Maybe.

01:24:34.310 --> 01:24:36.149
It's the same thing we're talking about with

01:24:36.149 --> 01:24:38.470
Hollywood being mentally ill. It's the same thing

01:24:38.470 --> 01:24:41.550
where you have to shape your opinions based on

01:24:41.550 --> 01:24:43.350
how you'll be accepted by the group. It's the

01:24:43.350 --> 01:24:46.010
most group think place I've ever been in my life.

01:24:46.270 --> 01:24:49.760
It's almost universally left -leaning. But isn't

01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:51.439
that the problem in comedy, like with the UK?

01:24:51.739 --> 01:24:53.779
So many people who would otherwise be innovative,

01:24:53.939 --> 01:24:55.680
subversive comics, they've got nowhere to go.

01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:58.000
Right. So they just tailor their material. Well,

01:24:58.000 --> 01:24:59.300
they come to Austin, baby. They come to Austin

01:24:59.300 --> 01:25:02.279
like I did, right? That's it. They come to, they

01:25:02.279 --> 01:25:05.640
come to. And I get so sick of it because I know

01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:08.640
in America it's much better. But in the UK. All

01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:10.479
of my old friends from the comedy circuit who

01:25:10.479 --> 01:25:13.140
tell me no one's self -censoring. You can say

01:25:13.140 --> 01:25:14.979
what you want. I'm like, are you kidding? Like

01:25:14.979 --> 01:25:17.220
the list of people I know who have had shows

01:25:17.220 --> 01:25:20.880
cancelled, taken off because they caused offence.

01:25:21.079 --> 01:25:23.239
This week, Leo Kirst, a friend of mine, had one

01:25:23.239 --> 01:25:25.060
of his shows on his tour just deleted because

01:25:25.060 --> 01:25:27.239
some activists complained to the venue. Right.

01:25:27.399 --> 01:25:30.119
So so it's happening all the time. And they're

01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:32.979
ignoring this Himalayan mountain of evidence.

01:25:33.560 --> 01:25:35.689
And they're saying it's not a thing. But of course

01:25:35.689 --> 01:25:37.350
people are self -censoring. Well, it's even happening

01:25:37.350 --> 01:25:40.270
here. Is it? Michael Rappaport got his shows.

01:25:41.189 --> 01:25:43.909
He got his shows canceled from Cap City Comedy

01:25:43.909 --> 01:25:45.770
Club. Did he? Which is our other comedy club

01:25:45.770 --> 01:25:48.409
in town, which is a great club owned by Helium.

01:25:48.510 --> 01:25:49.949
Right. But they were saying that he's racist

01:25:49.949 --> 01:25:52.970
because Michael Rappaport is very pro -Israel.

01:25:53.189 --> 01:25:55.869
Right. And apparently. Why does that make you

01:25:55.869 --> 01:25:58.130
racist? I don't know what he said, so I don't

01:25:58.130 --> 01:26:00.050
want to speak out of turn. I don't know what

01:26:00.050 --> 01:26:01.989
exactly he said. Let me make a small correction,

01:26:02.090 --> 01:26:05.640
I think. Oh. I don't think that. She has been...

01:26:05.640 --> 01:26:08.140
Sorry, back to the Odyssey thing. Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:26:08.260 --> 01:26:12.470
She has been cast in the movie. but only Twitter

01:26:12.470 --> 01:26:14.750
rumors have said what her position in the movie

01:26:14.750 --> 01:26:17.770
is, and then everybody has ran with it. Oh, interesting.

01:26:17.949 --> 01:26:22.869
So she could be someone else, a different character.

01:26:23.130 --> 01:26:24.850
All the articles I found online said it was like

01:26:24.850 --> 01:26:27.109
social media confirmation, and then people were

01:26:27.109 --> 01:26:28.890
just running with that. Well, there we go. Well,

01:26:28.949 --> 01:26:30.350
isn't that what I said? What is that article

01:26:30.350 --> 01:26:31.789
that you just clicked? This is the one I showed

01:26:31.789 --> 01:26:33.310
earlier. But what is it from? It starts off with

01:26:33.310 --> 01:26:37.590
a Hungarian conservative. That's a niche. Jamie,

01:26:37.909 --> 01:26:40.960
how dare you let that sneak by? I didn't notice

01:26:40.960 --> 01:26:43.500
it was a Hungarian conservative. Are you being

01:26:43.500 --> 01:26:45.380
paid by the Hungarian conservative? It's the

01:26:45.380 --> 01:26:47.859
top thing that popped up. Meanwhile, it's probably

01:26:47.859 --> 01:26:51.300
a fucking troll farm in Pakistan that's creating

01:26:51.300 --> 01:26:53.479
that. Or it's probably in China or something.

01:26:53.699 --> 01:26:55.560
All I googled was Helena Troy Odyssey movie and

01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:56.979
it's the very first article. Good for the Hungarian

01:26:56.979 --> 01:26:59.340
conservative. That's so funny. Coming out on

01:26:59.340 --> 01:27:00.939
top of the Google search. That's pretty good.

01:27:00.939 --> 01:27:03.659
That's so funny. But did I not say, I'm not sure

01:27:03.659 --> 01:27:05.439
about this, it's a Twitter rumor? But look, Elon

01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:07.500
Musk bought into it. Elon Musk and Christopher

01:27:07.500 --> 01:27:12.020
Nolan has lost his integrity. Oh, Elon. So there

01:27:12.020 --> 01:27:14.920
we go. The dude's too busy building rockets to

01:27:14.920 --> 01:27:17.859
pay attention to what he tweets. But this proves

01:27:17.859 --> 01:27:19.739
the point. Like, let's not. Oh, yeah, he's going

01:27:19.739 --> 01:27:22.060
to take us to the moon again. So, you know. No,

01:27:22.060 --> 01:27:25.060
he's not. Isn't he? No, Artemis is NASA. I thought

01:27:25.060 --> 01:27:26.659
he was working with NASA. Oh, is he working with

01:27:26.659 --> 01:27:28.859
NASA with Artemis? Again, someone said it online

01:27:28.859 --> 01:27:31.420
and I just bought it. Oh, wow. They probably

01:27:31.420 --> 01:27:34.180
can't get there without him. He's probably like,

01:27:34.199 --> 01:27:36.359
oh, I'll show you some things. Okay, so that

01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:38.760
is a perfect example because I am always now.

01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:41.300
Even when I mentioned that earlier, I was cautious,

01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:44.739
wasn't I? Because I know I've fallen for this

01:27:44.739 --> 01:27:46.640
so many times. I now double check and triple

01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:49.460
check everything. And I wish I didn't have to.

01:27:49.539 --> 01:27:51.359
But you do have to because even the mainstream

01:27:51.359 --> 01:27:54.399
media lie about stuff. And then Twitter rumors

01:27:54.399 --> 01:27:57.220
go absolutely mad. But it's important when you're

01:27:57.220 --> 01:28:00.739
talking about historical. Yeah, yeah. It's got

01:28:00.739 --> 01:28:03.000
to kind of, you just can't do that. It doesn't

01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:05.039
make any sense. Well, you sort of can. I think

01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:06.840
an artist should be able to do what they want.

01:28:06.979 --> 01:28:08.880
And I think if you want to, like they do it with

01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:10.140
Shakespeare all the time. Sorry to go back to

01:28:10.140 --> 01:28:12.260
Shakespeare, but you rarely go and see a Shakespeare

01:28:12.260 --> 01:28:14.359
play today that hasn't been filtered through

01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:17.399
the prism of identity politics and changed. Right,

01:28:17.460 --> 01:28:20.939
but that's not the same. That's not the same

01:28:20.939 --> 01:28:24.939
as historical figures. Well, he wrote histories.

01:28:24.979 --> 01:28:28.460
He wrote about. Kings? Henry VII? Henry V? Yeah,

01:28:28.579 --> 01:28:32.279
but it's fiction, right? Like, the thing about

01:28:32.279 --> 01:28:34.699
the Odyssey is... That's definitely fiction.

01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:38.060
It is, sort of, but, you know, they didn't think

01:28:38.060 --> 01:28:40.600
Troy existed, and then they found out it does.

01:28:40.779 --> 01:28:43.460
Right. It's a real place. It's based on myth.

01:28:43.539 --> 01:28:45.880
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But you remember, like,

01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:48.359
they thought that Troy was a completely mythological

01:28:48.359 --> 01:28:51.500
creation. So it's an actual place. They have

01:28:51.500 --> 01:28:53.949
evidence that it was a place. Yes. You didn't

01:28:53.949 --> 01:28:56.090
know that? No. Yeah, they found it. When did

01:28:56.090 --> 01:29:00.529
they find Troy? It was in the 20th century. So

01:29:00.529 --> 01:29:02.310
for the longest time. But there wouldn't have

01:29:02.310 --> 01:29:05.390
been sirens. And there wouldn't have been psychopsies.

01:29:05.449 --> 01:29:08.590
You know what I mean? Oh, no. Oh, Joe. No, psychopsies,

01:29:08.590 --> 01:29:10.829
they think were actually elephant skulls. That's

01:29:10.829 --> 01:29:12.350
what they think that was. Right, okay. Do you

01:29:12.350 --> 01:29:14.640
ever see an elephant skull? I have never seen

01:29:14.640 --> 01:29:16.460
an elephant skull. Well, you know, where the

01:29:16.460 --> 01:29:19.140
trunk is is an enormous hole. And they thought

01:29:19.140 --> 01:29:20.619
that that was an eyeball. So they would find

01:29:20.619 --> 01:29:23.920
these giant skulls that looked like, you know,

01:29:23.960 --> 01:29:25.159
they didn't know what the fuck it was. Yeah,

01:29:25.180 --> 01:29:26.619
yeah. And they're like, oh, my God, cyclopses

01:29:26.619 --> 01:29:29.840
are real. Fair enough. So here it is. Evidence

01:29:29.840 --> 01:29:31.500
that the city of Detroit was a real place began

01:29:31.500 --> 01:29:35.800
to emerge in the 1870s. Henrik Schlielmann discovered

01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:42.120
large -scale excavations at the Hisarlik. in

01:29:42.120 --> 01:29:45.279
northwestern Turkey in 1870. So when did they

01:29:45.279 --> 01:29:49.319
first start excavating? So where is it? It's

01:29:49.319 --> 01:29:51.140
in Turkey? It's in Turkey, yeah. Okay. Which

01:29:51.140 --> 01:29:58.420
is a lot of the proponents of a revising of the

01:29:58.420 --> 01:30:00.460
beginning of civilization are now pointing to

01:30:00.460 --> 01:30:04.800
Turkey. Yeah. As opposed to like Iraq and, you

01:30:04.800 --> 01:30:06.300
know. But the Greeks were everywhere, you know?

01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:08.220
Yeah. So the Mesopotamians and the, I mean, that

01:30:08.220 --> 01:30:11.079
doesn't surprise me. I mean, I think the point

01:30:11.079 --> 01:30:13.100
I was making about Helen of Troy is that even

01:30:13.100 --> 01:30:15.399
if it's not real, even if it's not history, the

01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:17.340
myth of Helen of Troy means something quite significant

01:30:17.340 --> 01:30:20.239
within that story. Yes. So if you subvert that,

01:30:20.439 --> 01:30:23.899
the fundamental aspects of the story itself doesn't

01:30:23.899 --> 01:30:26.020
work, and you can't buy into the myth. It's like

01:30:26.020 --> 01:30:27.720
if you turn the elephant man into a handsome

01:30:27.720 --> 01:30:30.560
fellow with a six -pack. Exactly that. Don't

01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:32.279
give them ideas. Don't give them ideas. They'll

01:30:32.279 --> 01:30:34.300
do that. Can you show me a photograph of an elephant

01:30:34.300 --> 01:30:37.819
skull? It's really kooky. But you see an elephant

01:30:37.819 --> 01:30:40.039
skull and you're like, oh, I get it. That's why

01:30:40.039 --> 01:30:41.720
they saw it. I could totally see you falling

01:30:41.720 --> 01:30:43.880
for that. Yeah. You look at it and you go, what

01:30:43.880 --> 01:30:45.720
the fuck is that thing? Like, look at an elephant

01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:48.439
skull. Isn't it nutty? Oh, completely. Yes. Yeah.

01:30:48.479 --> 01:30:50.380
And it's going to be a big old beast. Right.

01:30:50.439 --> 01:30:52.500
So you're going to think it's a - Big giant thing

01:30:52.500 --> 01:30:54.739
with tusks coming out of its mouth. Like, look

01:30:54.739 --> 01:30:58.359
at the actual Cyclops on the left. Isn't that

01:30:58.359 --> 01:31:00.880
crazy? Yeah. Of course. No, it makes sense. It

01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:03.680
makes complete sense. Complete sense. Yeah. Yeah,

01:31:03.720 --> 01:31:05.859
you found that, you're like, oh my God, cyclopses

01:31:05.859 --> 01:31:07.359
are real. You would think, oh my God, these monsters.

01:31:08.199 --> 01:31:10.899
Isn't that funny? What a weird shaped skull.

01:31:11.420 --> 01:31:14.119
So strange. You would never think the eyeballs

01:31:14.119 --> 01:31:15.960
would be down there by the cheekbones. That's

01:31:15.960 --> 01:31:18.520
what's weird about them. I have to say elephant

01:31:18.520 --> 01:31:20.800
anatomy is something I'm not, I haven't brushed

01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:22.800
up on that. Show the photo again. Look at that

01:31:22.800 --> 01:31:24.920
photo where the eyeballs are. The eyeballs are

01:31:24.920 --> 01:31:27.180
where the cheekbones are. See the little circular

01:31:27.180 --> 01:31:29.539
holes where the cheeks are? Now when you see

01:31:29.539 --> 01:31:32.020
an elephant in the flesh, like show me a photograph

01:31:32.020 --> 01:31:40.319
of an elephant. Just an elephant. So, see where

01:31:40.319 --> 01:31:42.520
their eyeballs are? Isn't that crazy? That's

01:31:42.520 --> 01:31:44.699
not how you think of them, is it? No. Well, they're

01:31:44.699 --> 01:31:47.640
so strange. Aren't they? The second one on the

01:31:47.640 --> 01:31:49.859
left, yeah, look at that. Click on that. What

01:31:49.859 --> 01:31:52.039
a wild animal. They're amazing. Have you never

01:31:52.039 --> 01:31:53.479
seen one of those before? You'd be like, whoa.

01:31:54.020 --> 01:31:57.359
Only in a zoo. Crazy. I rode one in Thailand.

01:31:57.439 --> 01:32:00.210
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't recommend

01:32:00.210 --> 01:32:01.930
it. I don't think I should ride them. My whole

01:32:01.930 --> 01:32:03.710
family wanted to do it. I didn't want to do it.

01:32:03.750 --> 01:32:05.630
I felt like it's exploiting them. But they're

01:32:05.630 --> 01:32:07.670
very sweet. They're gentle, aren't they? They're

01:32:07.670 --> 01:32:09.710
pleasant creatures. It's a whole process. So

01:32:09.710 --> 01:32:11.289
one of the things you do when you go to Thailand

01:32:11.289 --> 01:32:15.050
is you take care of them first. You don't just

01:32:15.050 --> 01:32:17.390
hop on them. You feed them. So you give them

01:32:17.390 --> 01:32:20.350
a bunch of sugar cane, and you pet them, and

01:32:20.350 --> 01:32:23.050
they teach you. So the animal understands you

01:32:23.050 --> 01:32:25.149
have a gentle spirit. It's intelligence, right?

01:32:25.250 --> 01:32:26.770
It's because they're smart. They're very smart.

01:32:26.890 --> 01:32:29.060
Also, they'll fucking kill you. Oh, they are

01:32:29.060 --> 01:32:31.439
scary beasts. Stomp you to death. But they're

01:32:31.439 --> 01:32:33.319
not like the hippo. The hippo will kill you.

01:32:33.399 --> 01:32:36.140
You cannot do that with a hippo. And I believe

01:32:36.140 --> 01:32:37.779
the reason why hippos are so dangerous, we think

01:32:37.779 --> 01:32:39.560
they're really cute and fat, but they are...

01:32:39.949 --> 01:32:41.810
fucking dangerous and they can run fast and they

01:32:41.810 --> 01:32:44.329
can tear you apart and they will but the key

01:32:44.329 --> 01:32:45.949
difference I believe is the intelligent thing

01:32:45.949 --> 01:32:47.670
so elephants are really smart and hippos are

01:32:47.670 --> 01:32:50.729
really stupid yeah and you can also become friends

01:32:50.729 --> 01:32:53.409
with an elephant yes like you can actually take

01:32:53.409 --> 01:32:55.310
care of an elephant and be kind to an elephant

01:32:55.310 --> 01:32:58.250
and that elephant will like be gentle yeah they

01:32:58.250 --> 01:33:00.689
come up to you and so you feed them sugar cane

01:33:00.689 --> 01:33:02.829
and you talk to them you say hey buddy how are

01:33:02.829 --> 01:33:05.550
you and you pet them and you wash them you wash

01:33:05.550 --> 01:33:07.489
them you do all kinds of different things with

01:33:07.489 --> 01:33:09.729
them you brush them so it feels good them you're

01:33:09.729 --> 01:33:11.670
gonna have an elephant soon aren't you no i would

01:33:11.670 --> 01:33:13.189
never have an elephant i'd be friends with an

01:33:13.189 --> 01:33:15.350
elf but you have to be wild like i just don't

01:33:15.350 --> 01:33:17.689
agree with any of that what having them in zoos

01:33:17.689 --> 01:33:19.850
and things no i hate it i think i do as well

01:33:19.850 --> 01:33:23.029
i think if you're gonna have animals you should

01:33:23.029 --> 01:33:27.029
have a gigantic area that is a true ecosystem

01:33:27.029 --> 01:33:29.609
that they exist in naturally yeah and then people

01:33:29.609 --> 01:33:33.079
can maybe venture into that ecosystem And explore

01:33:33.079 --> 01:33:34.840
it. I felt that. I was at the zoo recently in

01:33:34.840 --> 01:33:36.560
Arizona, and I felt that. So depressing. I felt

01:33:36.560 --> 01:33:39.600
there was one jaguar pacing obsessively. I just

01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:41.739
felt, it's like going to, you know, like in the

01:33:41.739 --> 01:33:43.520
Elizabethan era, they used to go to Bedlam to

01:33:43.520 --> 01:33:46.140
watch the people who were mad as an entertainment

01:33:46.140 --> 01:33:47.939
thing. It felt a little bit like we were doing

01:33:47.939 --> 01:33:51.180
that. I have far too much appreciation for the

01:33:51.180 --> 01:33:53.899
wild. Yeah, yeah. You know, I have animals that

01:33:53.899 --> 01:33:56.840
are contained at my house, but they have been

01:33:56.840 --> 01:33:59.500
watered down by selective breeding to the point

01:33:59.500 --> 01:34:01.939
where they can't even. I have a King Charles

01:34:01.939 --> 01:34:04.539
Spaniel. He's this tiny little fella. He's incapable

01:34:04.539 --> 01:34:07.319
of doing anything. He's just a little cutie pie.

01:34:07.560 --> 01:34:09.239
You can't unleash him into the wild. Right. And

01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:11.479
I have a golden retriever who thinks everybody's

01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:13.960
his best friend. Did you see the guy who kept

01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:15.779
a hippo from birth and then it ate him? And then

01:34:15.779 --> 01:34:19.819
it killed him. It ate him. Got annoyed. Understand

01:34:19.819 --> 01:34:22.050
that you're dealing with a... a creature that

01:34:22.050 --> 01:34:24.050
doesn't see the world that you do. Yeah. There's

01:34:24.050 --> 01:34:26.430
a lot of animals that you can breed up until

01:34:26.430 --> 01:34:29.909
you can rather have them in your home, like chimps

01:34:29.909 --> 01:34:31.930
famously. Yeah, yeah. Up until a certain point,

01:34:31.970 --> 01:34:33.989
and then they decide, I want to rip your face

01:34:33.989 --> 01:34:36.590
off. I don't like you anymore. I'm sure if cats

01:34:36.590 --> 01:34:38.069
were as big as we are, they'd probably do the

01:34:38.069 --> 01:34:39.710
same. Well, they would just eat you. They would.

01:34:39.789 --> 01:34:42.770
They would kill you 100%. The only reason why

01:34:42.770 --> 01:34:44.369
we have a relationship with cats is because they're

01:34:44.369 --> 01:34:46.859
too small to eat us. Yeah. That's it. Cats are

01:34:46.859 --> 01:34:47.939
great because they're convenient. They do what

01:34:47.939 --> 01:34:49.539
they want. They're sweet. They're sweet. I love

01:34:49.539 --> 01:34:51.899
cats. But, I mean, you can't have a fucking giant

01:34:51.899 --> 01:34:55.260
one. But you can if you take care of them from

01:34:55.260 --> 01:34:57.699
the time that they're cubs. Yeah. And most of

01:34:57.699 --> 01:34:59.560
the time they don't kill you. Yeah. But then

01:34:59.560 --> 01:35:01.659
you get a little Siegfried and Roy action and

01:35:01.659 --> 01:35:03.979
it just decides for whatever reason I want to

01:35:03.979 --> 01:35:06.470
drag that dude away with his neck. Yep. But,

01:35:06.470 --> 01:35:08.449
you know, these sorts of pleasures, you know,

01:35:08.470 --> 01:35:10.350
life with animals and this sort of thing is going

01:35:10.350 --> 01:35:12.649
to matter more and more to us, I think, when

01:35:12.649 --> 01:35:16.149
the robots take over. Yeah. Well, we might have

01:35:16.149 --> 01:35:19.100
to live with them. We might be wild and the robots

01:35:19.100 --> 01:35:21.100
might take over the cities. We might be forced

01:35:21.100 --> 01:35:23.100
to be nomadic tribes again. I think they might

01:35:23.100 --> 01:35:25.659
see us. We have no impact whatsoever on the environment.

01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:28.239
You can only live a subsistence lifestyle as

01:35:28.239 --> 01:35:30.680
a hunter -gatherer with primitive tools. The

01:35:30.680 --> 01:35:33.699
robots would no longer allow you. You can hunt,

01:35:33.699 --> 01:35:35.319
but you have to make your own bows and arrows.

01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:39.159
We're like, what? I can't possibly do that. So

01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:41.329
they're going to see us as pets. Yeah, they're

01:35:41.329 --> 01:35:43.750
going to treat us the way I want to treat elephants.

01:35:44.090 --> 01:35:47.270
So I want elephants to exist in a contained ecosystem

01:35:47.270 --> 01:35:49.649
where they live naturally. And they're going

01:35:49.649 --> 01:35:51.569
to say, you can't have cars anymore. You can't

01:35:51.569 --> 01:35:52.729
have any of these things. Well, that's a good

01:35:52.729 --> 01:35:54.430
point there, isn't it? So all the stuff I've

01:35:54.430 --> 01:35:56.050
been reading at the moment about AI is saying

01:35:56.050 --> 01:35:58.970
that AI won't wipe us out because it will see

01:35:58.970 --> 01:36:01.010
us in the way we see animals and the way we see

01:36:01.010 --> 01:36:04.050
pets. We think you're sweet and stupid, but we

01:36:04.050 --> 01:36:06.489
like having you around. We'll tolerate you. Is

01:36:06.489 --> 01:36:08.029
that the way it's going to go? I think we're

01:36:08.029 --> 01:36:10.460
going to be forced to integrate. In what way?

01:36:11.039 --> 01:36:13.560
Integrate technologically. Like, I think we already

01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:16.260
are. Like, Elon's famously made the point that

01:36:16.260 --> 01:36:18.380
you're already a cyborg. You have your phone

01:36:18.380 --> 01:36:19.960
that you just carry around with you everywhere.

01:36:20.300 --> 01:36:22.380
And then with Neuralink, it'll be inside your

01:36:22.380 --> 01:36:24.600
body. And then whatever. I wouldn't. I'm not

01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.579
letting that happen. You won't in the beginning.

01:36:27.340 --> 01:36:30.060
The first iterations, a lot of people won't.

01:36:30.060 --> 01:36:32.300
But if it makes your life measurably better and

01:36:32.300 --> 01:36:34.720
it's a simple procedure that's non -invasive,

01:36:34.920 --> 01:36:36.560
you know, it's like a simple thing that they

01:36:36.560 --> 01:36:38.819
plug in to the back of your head. Well, I'd be

01:36:38.819 --> 01:36:41.609
like a cyborg warrior. Is that what you're saying?

01:36:41.750 --> 01:36:45.449
Well, you would probably be connected to artificial

01:36:45.449 --> 01:36:48.729
intelligence and it would greatly enhance your

01:36:48.729 --> 01:36:51.850
cognitive function and greatly enhance your access

01:36:51.850 --> 01:36:53.930
to information. It would be instantaneous. You

01:36:53.930 --> 01:36:56.010
would no longer have to read. You would just

01:36:56.010 --> 01:36:58.449
have all the information. It would just completely

01:36:58.449 --> 01:37:00.789
change the way you store information because

01:37:00.789 --> 01:37:03.090
you would probably have some sort of an external

01:37:03.090 --> 01:37:06.170
hard drive that connects to you. It would be

01:37:06.170 --> 01:37:09.310
something where your memory is no longer fallible,

01:37:09.390 --> 01:37:11.689
but it's now infallible. Okay. It's going to

01:37:11.689 --> 01:37:14.930
be a perfect 4K memory or 8K memory. You're going

01:37:14.930 --> 01:37:16.569
to be able to rewind. I mean, wasn't that an

01:37:16.569 --> 01:37:18.750
episode of Dark Mirror where they rewind their

01:37:18.750 --> 01:37:23.250
memories? What is this? You sent me that bot

01:37:23.250 --> 01:37:25.689
thing that was going around this week. Oh, did

01:37:25.689 --> 01:37:27.029
you see this week? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is

01:37:27.029 --> 01:37:28.010
what we're talking about. So this is a new twist

01:37:28.010 --> 01:37:32.130
on it. I think if this is real, because grain

01:37:32.130 --> 01:37:34.460
of salt could be bullshit. I'll just say that.

01:37:34.520 --> 01:37:36.220
Like the Odyssey thing? Yeah. But if this is

01:37:36.220 --> 01:37:38.760
real, these bots have made a website where the

01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:41.859
other bots can rent a human to do tasks that

01:37:41.859 --> 01:37:44.739
the bots cannot physically do. Well, that's slavery.

01:37:45.180 --> 01:37:48.420
No, renting. It's like jobs. You're renting a

01:37:48.420 --> 01:37:51.479
human being. A human has put themselves on this

01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:53.220
website. Oh, humans put themselves on it. For

01:37:53.220 --> 01:37:55.939
abilities to do whatever they want. It's like

01:37:55.939 --> 01:37:58.439
gig... Economy. Yeah, get paid your way, robot

01:37:58.439 --> 01:38:00.779
bosses. Is this the thing where - Here's the

01:38:00.779 --> 01:38:02.899
stuff that they need done. The robots are inventing

01:38:02.899 --> 01:38:04.640
their own language that we can't read. It's on

01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:07.239
this website, right? Meet space tasks. Yeah,

01:38:07.359 --> 01:38:09.520
that's again, whether or not someone could have

01:38:09.520 --> 01:38:11.979
made this site to try to go viral, I'll just

01:38:11.979 --> 01:38:13.979
go with a grain of salt with that. Yeah. But

01:38:13.979 --> 01:38:17.159
they might not have in the box. Meet space. Rentahuman

01:38:17.159 --> 01:38:21.020
.ai is fun. Okay. That's fun. Well, you know,

01:38:21.039 --> 01:38:23.520
so - The other thing is real, though, right?

01:38:23.619 --> 01:38:27.819
The AI chat room where these AI agents have joined

01:38:27.819 --> 01:38:30.939
and announced. Yes and no. Yes and no? What do

01:38:30.939 --> 01:38:32.899
you mean? Some of it, they are creating a space,

01:38:33.000 --> 01:38:34.979
but I've already seen places where people are

01:38:34.979 --> 01:38:37.720
taking advantage of it for viral reasons. For

01:38:37.720 --> 01:38:41.859
instance, let's just assume it's real. There

01:38:41.859 --> 01:38:47.800
was a polymarket bet that one of these bots would

01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:51.220
sue. So someone actually just went ahead and

01:38:51.220 --> 01:38:53.000
filed a lawsuit on behalf of their bot and made

01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:55.260
it look like the bot did the thing. Oh, so they

01:38:55.260 --> 01:38:57.359
could win the polymarket bet? Yeah, exactly.

01:38:57.500 --> 01:39:00.220
How regulated is that polymarket stuff? Because

01:39:00.220 --> 01:39:02.079
it seems like you could get away with a lot.

01:39:02.399 --> 01:39:03.960
It depends how much money is available. As far

01:39:03.960 --> 01:39:06.199
as I know, it's just like if I put up $20 for

01:39:06.199 --> 01:39:09.399
a bet now, there's only $20 in the market. So

01:39:09.399 --> 01:39:11.880
that's all that exists. And more people have

01:39:11.880 --> 01:39:14.869
to back it up to make more money involved. Right,

01:39:14.909 --> 01:39:17.550
but if you have something where you have inside

01:39:17.550 --> 01:39:20.630
knowledge of it, is there any regulation? There's

01:39:20.630 --> 01:39:23.329
supposed to be rules on the bet. So if I create

01:39:23.329 --> 01:39:25.329
one of those rules, I think there's a caveat.

01:39:25.449 --> 01:39:27.770
You can't have knowledge of it, and that can

01:39:27.770 --> 01:39:30.109
cancel the bet. Or I think if they find out later,

01:39:30.289 --> 01:39:32.770
I don't know. Do you go to jail? What happens?

01:39:32.989 --> 01:39:34.270
I don't know. Jail, you probably just have to

01:39:34.270 --> 01:39:36.189
lose back the bet, or you probably go to a civil

01:39:36.189 --> 01:39:37.710
lawsuit or something like that. I don't know

01:39:37.710 --> 01:39:39.470
about jail. Interesting. I don't know if it's

01:39:39.470 --> 01:39:41.670
in law. You know, the UFC is plagued with this

01:39:41.670 --> 01:39:44.220
issue. They actually canceled a fight recently

01:39:44.220 --> 01:39:47.239
because there was suspicious betting. And so

01:39:47.239 --> 01:39:51.840
there's been one fight. So here's the story.

01:39:51.939 --> 01:39:56.859
One guy apparently was injured and his teammates

01:39:56.859 --> 01:39:59.460
knew he was injured. And so everyone started

01:39:59.460 --> 01:40:02.960
placing a bet. For him to lose in the first round.

01:40:03.079 --> 01:40:05.140
Right. Because he apparently had a bad knee injury.

01:40:05.319 --> 01:40:09.079
And so he knew that he couldn't fight. And so

01:40:09.079 --> 01:40:11.819
the idea was, let's make a lot of money betting

01:40:11.819 --> 01:40:14.140
on me because he was the favorite. He would go

01:40:14.140 --> 01:40:16.600
in there or betting against me. And so he would

01:40:16.600 --> 01:40:20.850
go in there and. throw a kick, fall down, injured,

01:40:21.109 --> 01:40:23.869
get beat up, they'd stop the fight, and then

01:40:23.869 --> 01:40:25.890
all these people that knew he was injured make

01:40:25.890 --> 01:40:28.750
a ton of money. And he was in on it? Allegedly.

01:40:28.909 --> 01:40:31.329
I just want to say allegedly. But it's enough

01:40:31.329 --> 01:40:35.649
so that the team was removed from the UFC roster.

01:40:35.850 --> 01:40:38.489
If you are competing for that team, you no longer

01:40:38.489 --> 01:40:39.909
can fight in the UFC. You have to find a new

01:40:39.909 --> 01:40:42.829
gym. The coach was no longer allowed to coach.

01:40:42.949 --> 01:40:46.090
The fighter was banned. And so then the FBI got

01:40:46.090 --> 01:40:48.010
involved and they said, well, there's a bunch...

01:40:48.039 --> 01:40:50.399
of different fights that are suspicious. So then

01:40:50.399 --> 01:40:53.260
a bunch of fighters came out and said, hey, somebody

01:40:53.260 --> 01:40:57.420
offered me $70 ,000 to lose, and I said no. And

01:40:57.420 --> 01:40:59.600
so then there was a fight recently between Michael

01:40:59.600 --> 01:41:02.199
Johnson and Alexander Hernandez, which is a fight

01:41:02.199 --> 01:41:04.039
I was really looking forward to, that was canceled

01:41:04.039 --> 01:41:05.640
last minute. And I was like, what's going on?

01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:08.340
They said suspicious betting activity. And so

01:41:08.340 --> 01:41:11.340
someone was saying that Alexander Hernandez was

01:41:11.340 --> 01:41:13.659
injured and a bunch of money came in on him to

01:41:13.659 --> 01:41:16.399
lose. He was actually a favorite going into the

01:41:16.399 --> 01:41:19.649
fight. And that therefore rigged it? Nope, didn't

01:41:19.649 --> 01:41:23.029
rig it because the FBI was informed. I believe

01:41:23.029 --> 01:41:24.770
they were informed, but the UFC was informed

01:41:24.770 --> 01:41:28.329
and the UFC pulled the fight. They said, because

01:41:28.329 --> 01:41:31.210
of this suspicious betting activity, because

01:41:31.210 --> 01:41:34.470
a lot of late -minute money came in on this one

01:41:34.470 --> 01:41:36.750
guy to win, we're going to pull this fight from

01:41:36.750 --> 01:41:38.369
the card and not allow this fight to take place

01:41:38.369 --> 01:41:40.850
and do a thorough investigation. Because something

01:41:40.850 --> 01:41:43.470
seems wrong because of the previous fight that

01:41:43.470 --> 01:41:45.170
they know was fixed. But fighters have been doing

01:41:45.170 --> 01:41:46.859
that for ages, haven't they? That's a thing that

01:41:46.859 --> 01:41:48.760
they've always done. How does that connect then

01:41:48.760 --> 01:41:52.699
to the AI element that this website? Well, we

01:41:52.699 --> 01:41:55.060
were talking about betting. Oh, I see. We were

01:41:55.060 --> 01:41:56.500
talking about polymarket. We weren't talking

01:41:56.500 --> 01:41:58.800
about AI. I was trying to connect the - Yeah,

01:41:58.859 --> 01:42:00.100
yeah, yeah. We were talking about polymarket

01:42:00.100 --> 01:42:02.159
bets and whether or not it's legal to have inside

01:42:02.159 --> 01:42:05.180
information. I mean, I know that - Polymarket

01:42:05.180 --> 01:42:08.060
privileged users made millions betting on war

01:42:08.060 --> 01:42:10.539
strikes and diplomatic strategy. What did they

01:42:10.539 --> 01:42:13.619
know beforehand? privileged users right so imagine

01:42:13.619 --> 01:42:16.640
if you're someone who's an aide to the pentagon

01:42:16.640 --> 01:42:19.819
you know you're working there and you know that

01:42:19.819 --> 01:42:23.119
we are gonna bomb iran yeah and then there's

01:42:23.119 --> 01:42:25.079
a polymarket thing about it no one else knows

01:42:25.079 --> 01:42:27.220
okay okay yes you know that i mean that's been

01:42:27.220 --> 01:42:28.960
going on forever though hasn't it people have

01:42:28.960 --> 01:42:30.500
always done that they've always manipulated that's

01:42:30.500 --> 01:42:32.199
a plot in pulp fiction isn't it where there's

01:42:32.199 --> 01:42:34.500
a bruce willis's character Bets on something

01:42:34.500 --> 01:42:35.979
he knows he's going to. He loses the fight deliberately.

01:42:36.399 --> 01:42:37.840
He throws a fight. So that he can make the money

01:42:37.840 --> 01:42:39.119
off it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that kind of thing.

01:42:39.199 --> 01:42:42.220
Yeah, yeah. That's always gone on. But this polymarket

01:42:42.220 --> 01:42:44.739
thing is new because you can kind of, there's

01:42:44.739 --> 01:42:48.779
Kalshi and then there's DraftKings has it now.

01:42:49.039 --> 01:42:50.859
It's not actually gambling is the difference

01:42:50.859 --> 01:42:53.100
here. You're speculating. Yeah, you're not taking

01:42:53.100 --> 01:42:55.500
money from the book or the house or whatever.

01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.859
betting against each other. Right. But the fact

01:42:58.859 --> 01:43:00.180
that they know about it and they know it's happening,

01:43:00.239 --> 01:43:02.039
that means they'll be able to crack down on it.

01:43:02.119 --> 01:43:05.739
But I don't know because there's a lot of, there's

01:43:05.739 --> 01:43:08.520
so many options and possibilities. Like, unless

01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:10.779
you make a gigantic score and people start getting

01:43:10.779 --> 01:43:13.539
suspicious, if you're not greedy about it and

01:43:13.539 --> 01:43:15.439
you just kind of sneak around a little bit here

01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:17.159
and a little bit there, I bet you could probably

01:43:17.159 --> 01:43:18.579
make a lot of money doing that. But do you think

01:43:18.579 --> 01:43:20.279
fighters and people like that and sports people

01:43:20.279 --> 01:43:22.100
generally, I mean, they're too proud, aren't

01:43:22.100 --> 01:43:24.380
they, to let something like that go just for

01:43:24.380 --> 01:43:27.369
money? No. No, that's not true. Okay. Depends

01:43:27.369 --> 01:43:29.069
on how much money they're making. Look, if you're

01:43:29.069 --> 01:43:31.210
Anthony Joshua, I'd say, yeah, you're not going

01:43:31.210 --> 01:43:33.569
to do that. You're very wealthy. But if you're

01:43:33.569 --> 01:43:35.890
a guy who's on the undercard and you're only

01:43:35.890 --> 01:43:37.750
getting $10 ,000 to fight, but someone's giving

01:43:37.750 --> 01:43:40.949
you $100 ,000 to lose. Yeah. Okay. And you say,

01:43:41.010 --> 01:43:43.359
okay, I'm just going to box shitty tonight. Guys

01:43:43.359 --> 01:43:45.600
have done that forever. Yeah, I guess so. Just

01:43:45.600 --> 01:43:47.640
don't knock this guy out. Whatever you do, carry

01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:51.159
him or carry him to the 10th round. Yeah. You

01:43:51.159 --> 01:43:53.119
know, there's a lot of that going on where they

01:43:53.119 --> 01:43:54.760
say, I have a bet that you're going to knock

01:43:54.760 --> 01:43:56.479
him out in the 10th round. So knock him out in

01:43:56.479 --> 01:43:57.960
the 10th round only. I don't think you'll ever

01:43:57.960 --> 01:43:59.600
be able to stop that. No. If that's going to

01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:01.319
happen. No, I don't think so either. I mean,

01:44:01.340 --> 01:44:04.859
that's gone on forever. Yeah, yeah. But isn't

01:44:04.859 --> 01:44:06.819
fighting like a kind of vocation, like a creative

01:44:06.819 --> 01:44:09.079
vocation for a lot of people? Well, it is creative.

01:44:09.860 --> 01:44:12.840
Believe it or not, because movement is creative.

01:44:13.079 --> 01:44:15.760
When you're fighting, you're not just running

01:44:15.760 --> 01:44:18.159
at each other. Some guys do. But the really good

01:44:18.159 --> 01:44:20.239
guys don't just run at each other in charge.

01:44:20.439 --> 01:44:23.239
There's feints and deception. There's movement.

01:44:23.520 --> 01:44:25.640
There's certain things that they're doing where

01:44:25.640 --> 01:44:28.079
they're reading your movement and trying to guide

01:44:28.079 --> 01:44:30.039
you in a particular direction and set you up.

01:44:30.619 --> 01:44:32.979
I can believe it. Boxers call it setting traps.

01:44:33.460 --> 01:44:35.859
Yeah. It's like playing you've got a bluff. Yes.

01:44:35.939 --> 01:44:38.140
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's a lot of feinting

01:44:38.140 --> 01:44:40.960
involved. fighting there's a lot of like fake

01:44:40.960 --> 01:44:43.359
movement to get you to react and they kick you

01:44:43.359 --> 01:44:46.220
when you settle in you know there's it's it's

01:44:46.220 --> 01:44:48.899
really creative you know it's just why like was

01:44:48.899 --> 01:44:51.539
it faye dunaway no was it who was it that said

01:44:51.539 --> 01:44:55.079
you know that the older woman that said and we're

01:44:55.079 --> 01:44:57.199
talking about the arts and i don't mean mixed

01:44:57.199 --> 01:44:59.960
martial arts god what like a kind of snobbish

01:44:59.960 --> 01:45:03.739
thing about then close no it wasn't her it was

01:45:03.739 --> 01:45:07.859
the lady from bridges of madison county who was

01:45:07.859 --> 01:45:12.000
that That's Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep. That's

01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:14.420
who it was. Yeah, Meryl Streep said that. It

01:45:14.420 --> 01:45:18.279
pissed off so many martial arts people. Why?

01:45:18.359 --> 01:45:19.819
That Meryl Streep doesn't like that? She's not

01:45:19.819 --> 01:45:23.920
talking about mixed martial arts. Who thought

01:45:23.920 --> 01:45:27.020
you were? Who thought you were, Meryl? That's

01:45:27.020 --> 01:45:28.659
crazy. I don't know. She's pretty versatile.

01:45:28.939 --> 01:45:31.899
But also, even though it's violent, you think

01:45:31.899 --> 01:45:34.529
it's not art. Just because you don't understand

01:45:34.529 --> 01:45:37.430
it. If you understood it, it is art. And it is,

01:45:37.449 --> 01:45:39.649
in fact, like a beautiful... Some performances

01:45:39.649 --> 01:45:41.489
are beautiful. Well, it's choreography, right?

01:45:41.590 --> 01:45:43.409
Yeah. In a way. Well, it's not choreography at

01:45:43.409 --> 01:45:46.350
all. It's ad -libbing in the moment. I mean,

01:45:46.369 --> 01:45:51.390
there's pre... conceived motions that you have

01:45:51.390 --> 01:45:53.710
that you're hoping that if the guy does this

01:45:53.710 --> 01:45:55.189
you're going to do that and sometimes it works

01:45:55.189 --> 01:45:57.850
out yeah but it's like the poetry of movement

01:45:57.850 --> 01:46:01.930
of a really sublime fighter like you know Anderson

01:46:01.930 --> 01:46:04.850
Silva in his prime yeah it was beautiful to watch

01:46:04.850 --> 01:46:07.659
you know I believe you you know my I have very

01:46:07.659 --> 01:46:09.500
limited experience of this. I did Kung Fu when

01:46:09.500 --> 01:46:12.699
I was 12, and I stopped because I got so bruised.

01:46:12.939 --> 01:46:16.199
I got so hurt. I was too cowardly. But, you know,

01:46:16.220 --> 01:46:18.899
people impose their own standards on other people

01:46:18.899 --> 01:46:21.779
and their own ideas of what things are, you know,

01:46:21.779 --> 01:46:24.100
from the outside. And, you know, it's kind of

01:46:24.100 --> 01:46:26.300
silly. Oh, Joe, I was going to tell you about

01:46:26.300 --> 01:46:28.079
this Berkeley thing. Oh, yeah, that's right.

01:46:28.199 --> 01:46:31.060
We got sidetracked. We got onto elephants. But

01:46:31.060 --> 01:46:34.430
I think that... It was a natural segue because

01:46:34.430 --> 01:46:36.850
I think this encapsulates all of the stuff you

01:46:36.850 --> 01:46:38.409
were talking about, which is that I was going

01:46:38.409 --> 01:46:41.130
to this, basically, Charlie Kirk's tour. It was

01:46:41.130 --> 01:46:44.029
meant to go on. Berkeley was the last date. And

01:46:44.029 --> 01:46:47.010
Rob Schneider had agreed to do it. And apparently

01:46:47.010 --> 01:46:49.289
he'd said to Charlie, you know, what's the craziest

01:46:49.289 --> 01:46:51.609
place you could take me to? And he said, Berkeley.

01:46:51.829 --> 01:46:52.930
Berkeley's going to be the craziest. Let's do

01:46:52.930 --> 01:46:55.350
that. So he was already booked to do it. After

01:46:55.350 --> 01:46:58.600
what happened with Charlie. Rob asked me if I'd

01:46:58.600 --> 01:47:01.180
come along as well. So we'd be on a panel. And

01:47:01.180 --> 01:47:03.300
I had no idea of the extent of the problem, right?

01:47:03.420 --> 01:47:07.420
And I'm sure you know a lot more than I do. But

01:47:07.420 --> 01:47:09.840
I turned up. We turned up and there were men

01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:12.300
with guns. We were in an SUV under the ground.

01:47:12.579 --> 01:47:16.460
We got into this venue. And suddenly the security

01:47:16.460 --> 01:47:19.079
starts showing me footage from outside. And it's

01:47:19.079 --> 01:47:21.100
like a war zone. People are throwing smoke bombs.

01:47:21.359 --> 01:47:24.229
They're trying to... Crash through the railings.

01:47:24.390 --> 01:47:26.289
Some guy gets beaten up. He's covered in blood

01:47:26.289 --> 01:47:27.970
because he was wearing a T -shirt with Turning

01:47:27.970 --> 01:47:30.130
Point written on it. And I'm suddenly realizing,

01:47:30.289 --> 01:47:33.550
you know what? This is a fantasy world that we're

01:47:33.550 --> 01:47:35.770
now occupying. We're now occupying a world where

01:47:35.770 --> 01:47:38.390
the people outside think the world is this. And

01:47:38.390 --> 01:47:40.130
what's going on inside is completely disconnected

01:47:40.130 --> 01:47:42.489
from it. And I actually found it quite depressing.

01:47:42.949 --> 01:47:44.510
Because when I was sitting on stage talking to

01:47:44.510 --> 01:47:46.970
Rob and Peter Boghossian and Frank Turek, these

01:47:46.970 --> 01:47:48.949
people of completely different viewpoints, we're

01:47:48.949 --> 01:47:51.640
just having a chat outside. They're smashing

01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:53.579
things. They're screaming. They're saying that

01:47:53.579 --> 01:47:56.279
fascists have overrun the university. And I'm

01:47:56.279 --> 01:47:58.779
thinking, just to come back to that point you

01:47:58.779 --> 01:48:01.560
made about, you know, that need for discussion.

01:48:01.960 --> 01:48:03.779
That experience made me think, actually, now

01:48:03.779 --> 01:48:06.640
what's happening is we're living in two separate

01:48:06.640 --> 01:48:09.319
worlds at the same time. And we can't see what

01:48:09.319 --> 01:48:12.000
the other side is, what the intentions of the

01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:14.319
other side are. And I don't know how you resolve

01:48:14.319 --> 01:48:17.399
that. I think that, to me, sort of encapsulated

01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:19.880
the entire problem. Well, at this point, it's

01:48:19.880 --> 01:48:21.899
going to be very difficult to resolve. And I

01:48:21.899 --> 01:48:23.979
honestly think it's going to take a generation

01:48:23.979 --> 01:48:26.600
to work through it. But isn't it as simple as

01:48:26.600 --> 01:48:28.739
people learning what the word fascist means,

01:48:28.859 --> 01:48:30.659
for instance? It's not just that. It's like they

01:48:30.659 --> 01:48:34.060
firmly believe that they are trying to fight

01:48:34.060 --> 01:48:36.520
against something that is going to destroy democracy

01:48:36.520 --> 01:48:39.899
in this country, which is conservative values.

01:48:40.119 --> 01:48:41.680
But we had that with the No Kings. So there's

01:48:41.680 --> 01:48:44.420
a No Kings march. And I couldn't figure that

01:48:44.420 --> 01:48:45.539
out. I was trying to figure out what are they?

01:48:45.800 --> 01:48:48.060
This is an elected leader. Well, you know, it's

01:48:48.060 --> 01:48:50.119
all organized, right? You know, this is all funded.

01:48:50.199 --> 01:48:54.729
I don't know. Okay, it is. So this was. Mike

01:48:54.729 --> 01:48:57.250
Benz's point when he was talking about the defunding

01:48:57.250 --> 01:49:00.310
of USAID and what they use that money for. NGOs

01:49:00.310 --> 01:49:05.170
get a bunch of money and they fund a bunch of

01:49:05.170 --> 01:49:07.909
things, particularly in other countries, where

01:49:07.909 --> 01:49:11.109
they're essentially making it look like there's

01:49:11.109 --> 01:49:13.409
these on -the -ground street protests that are

01:49:13.409 --> 01:49:15.909
very organic. But it's not. It's very organized

01:49:15.909 --> 01:49:18.829
and it's very funded. And the idea is to start

01:49:18.829 --> 01:49:21.350
chaos. So I've seen people get caught out, people

01:49:21.350 --> 01:49:23.229
who are clearly being paid, who appear at various

01:49:23.229 --> 01:49:25.880
different... It's not just that. It's also email

01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:30.000
campaigns. It's indoctrinating people into this

01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:32.359
particular ideology by supporting universities.

01:49:32.359 --> 01:49:35.460
So you fund it in advance. So it's like decades

01:49:35.460 --> 01:49:41.039
of – this is – I'm sure you've seen the Russian

01:49:41.039 --> 01:49:46.220
guy from 1984, 1985, Yuri Bezmenov talking about

01:49:46.220 --> 01:49:49.689
… Remind me. You've never seen it? I don't think

01:49:49.689 --> 01:49:51.189
I've seen it. It's a wonderful video because

01:49:51.189 --> 01:49:53.850
it shows you exactly what happened, how they're

01:49:53.850 --> 01:49:56.270
going to introduce Marxism and Leninism into

01:49:56.270 --> 01:49:59.149
universities, and then it'll indoctrinate children,

01:49:59.289 --> 01:50:01.670
and then those children will be poisoned, and

01:50:01.670 --> 01:50:04.289
within one generation, it'll ruin the United

01:50:04.289 --> 01:50:07.010
States' entire educational system. So that's

01:50:07.010 --> 01:50:08.869
the long march. Yeah, that's the long march.

01:50:08.869 --> 01:50:10.630
But you should watch a little bit of this because

01:50:10.630 --> 01:50:15.899
it's crazy. Back then, I remember the 1980s.

01:50:15.899 --> 01:50:18.699
That would be a crazy idea. No, universities

01:50:18.699 --> 01:50:20.340
are where people have free thought and discussion.

01:50:20.520 --> 01:50:24.199
It's very important. I was in a very left -leaning

01:50:24.199 --> 01:50:27.439
place at the time. I was living in Boston. There

01:50:27.439 --> 01:50:30.359
were probably more universities per capita than

01:50:30.359 --> 01:50:31.760
anywhere else in the country, at least at the

01:50:31.760 --> 01:50:35.819
time. It was a very well -read city. The idea

01:50:35.819 --> 01:50:38.000
that universities are going to destroy the way

01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:42.029
human beings interact and debate. But this guy

01:50:42.029 --> 01:50:44.529
was talking about this back then that the Soviets

01:50:44.529 --> 01:50:47.350
had planned this in advance and that they had

01:50:47.350 --> 01:50:50.609
essentially subverted our entire education system

01:50:50.609 --> 01:50:53.670
and thereby those people would leave those schools

01:50:53.670 --> 01:50:56.350
indoctrinated and enter into the workforce with

01:50:56.350 --> 01:50:59.010
these new ideas in universal acceptance that

01:50:59.010 --> 01:51:00.829
these ideas are correct. And then it would in

01:51:00.829 --> 01:51:03.979
turn. you know, the butterfly effect. But do

01:51:03.979 --> 01:51:05.960
you think that everyone, I don't, I can't be

01:51:05.960 --> 01:51:07.539
sure that it's as conspiratorial as that because

01:51:07.539 --> 01:51:09.539
there must be a lot of, you know, people who

01:51:09.539 --> 01:51:11.140
just got on board with this without... Well,

01:51:11.140 --> 01:51:12.600
there's a lot of money involved in doing this.

01:51:12.680 --> 01:51:14.380
Right. There's a lot of funds that have come

01:51:14.380 --> 01:51:16.319
from China. There's a lot of money that has been

01:51:16.319 --> 01:51:19.739
donated to these universities. Like, find that

01:51:19.739 --> 01:51:22.520
video. Weirdly, okay, I found it, but there's

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:24.300
like a second version on Twitter I've never seen

01:51:24.300 --> 01:51:27.279
before. An AI moderated one. No, no. He's now

01:51:27.279 --> 01:51:31.279
in a wig. Oh, I recognize him. So listen to what

01:51:31.279 --> 01:51:36.199
he says. is spent on espionage as such. The other

01:51:36.199 --> 01:51:41.420
85 % is a slow process which we call either ideological

01:51:41.420 --> 01:51:46.279
subversion or active measures, in the language

01:51:46.279 --> 01:51:49.939
of the KGB, or psychological warfare. What it

01:51:49.939 --> 01:51:52.739
basically means is to change the perception of

01:51:52.739 --> 01:51:58.140
reality of every American to such an extent that

01:51:58.140 --> 01:52:01.779
despite of the abundance of information No one

01:52:01.779 --> 01:52:05.479
is able to come to sensible conclusions in the

01:52:05.479 --> 01:52:08.399
interests of defending themselves, their families,

01:52:08.560 --> 01:52:12.180
their community and their country. It's a great

01:52:12.180 --> 01:52:16.739
brainwashing process which goes very slow and

01:52:16.739 --> 01:52:21.520
is divided in four basic stages. The first one

01:52:21.520 --> 01:52:24.399
being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20

01:52:24.399 --> 01:52:27.460
years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years?

01:52:28.109 --> 01:52:30.829
Because this is the minimum number of years which

01:52:30.829 --> 01:52:34.130
requires to educate one generation of students

01:52:34.130 --> 01:52:39.949
in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology

01:52:39.949 --> 01:52:43.189
of the enemy. In other words, Marxism -Leninism

01:52:43.189 --> 01:52:46.189
ideology is being pumped into the soft heads

01:52:46.189 --> 01:52:48.909
of at least three generations of American students

01:52:48.909 --> 01:52:51.890
without being challenged or counterbalanced by

01:52:51.890 --> 01:52:55.750
the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism.

01:52:55.890 --> 01:52:59.180
The result? the result you can see most of the

01:52:59.180 --> 01:53:02.699
people who graduated in 60s dropouts or half

01:53:02.699 --> 01:53:05.779
-baked intellectuals are now occupying the positions

01:53:05.779 --> 01:53:08.659
of power in the government civil service business

01:53:08.659 --> 01:53:12.220
mass media educational system you are stuck with

01:53:12.220 --> 01:53:15.100
them you cannot get rid of them they are contaminated

01:53:15.100 --> 01:53:18.239
they are programmed to think and react to certain

01:53:18.239 --> 01:53:21.539
stimuli in a certain pattern you cannot change

01:53:21.539 --> 01:53:24.609
their mind even if you if you expose them to

01:53:24.609 --> 01:53:27.430
authentic information even if you prove that

01:53:27.430 --> 01:53:30.510
white is white and black is black you still cannot

01:53:30.510 --> 01:53:33.710
change the basic perception and the logic of

01:53:33.710 --> 01:53:38.729
behavior in other words these people the process

01:53:38.729 --> 01:53:41.810
of demoralization is complete and irreversible

01:53:41.810 --> 01:53:44.529
to get rid society of these people you have you

01:53:44.529 --> 01:53:49.590
need another 20 or or 15 years to educate a new

01:53:49.590 --> 01:53:53.460
generation of patriotically minded and common

01:53:53.460 --> 01:53:59.619
-sense people who would be acting in favor and

01:53:59.619 --> 01:54:03.140
in the interests of the United States society.

01:54:03.560 --> 01:54:05.739
And yet these people who've been programmed and,

01:54:05.779 --> 01:54:08.460
as you say, in place and who are favorable to

01:54:08.460 --> 01:54:11.600
an opening with the Soviet concept, these are

01:54:11.600 --> 01:54:14.079
the very people who would be marked for extermination

01:54:14.079 --> 01:54:16.939
in this country? Most of them, yes, simply because

01:54:16.939 --> 01:54:20.920
the psychological shock when when they will see

01:54:20.920 --> 01:54:23.739
in future what the what the beautiful society

01:54:23.739 --> 01:54:26.840
of equality and social justice means in practice

01:54:26.840 --> 01:54:30.600
obviously they will revolt they they will they

01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:34.600
will be very unhappy frustrated people and the

01:54:34.600 --> 01:54:37.380
marxist leninist regime does not tolerate these

01:54:37.380 --> 01:54:40.979
people they obviously they will join the links

01:54:40.979 --> 01:54:46.300
of dissenters dissidents Unlike in present United

01:54:46.300 --> 01:54:48.920
States, there will be no place for dissent in

01:54:48.920 --> 01:54:52.960
future Marxist -Leninist America. Here you can

01:54:52.960 --> 01:54:58.300
get popular like Daniel Ellsberg and filthy rich

01:54:58.300 --> 01:55:01.479
like Jane Fonda for being dissident, for criticizing

01:55:01.479 --> 01:55:04.300
your Pentagon. In future, these people will be

01:55:04.300 --> 01:55:07.960
simply squashed like cockroaches. Nobody is going

01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:10.380
to pay them nothing for their beautiful, noble

01:55:10.380 --> 01:55:13.529
ideas of equality. This they don't understand

01:55:13.529 --> 01:55:16.289
and it will be greatest shock for them, of course.

01:55:16.670 --> 01:55:19.909
The demoralization process in the United States

01:55:19.909 --> 01:55:23.930
is basically completed already for the last 25

01:55:23.930 --> 01:55:27.130
years. Actually, it's over -fulfilled because

01:55:27.130 --> 01:55:30.949
demoralization now reaches such areas where previously

01:55:30.949 --> 01:55:34.670
not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts

01:55:34.670 --> 01:55:37.949
would even dream of such a tremendous success.

01:55:38.750 --> 01:55:41.630
Most of it is done by Americans to Americans,

01:55:41.970 --> 01:55:44.789
thanks to lack of moral standards. As I mentioned

01:55:44.789 --> 01:55:49.149
before, exposure to true information does not

01:55:49.149 --> 01:55:52.890
matter anymore. A person who was demoralized

01:55:52.890 --> 01:55:56.729
is unable to assess true information. The facts

01:55:56.729 --> 01:56:01.310
tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with

01:56:01.310 --> 01:56:04.289
information, with authentic proof, with documents,

01:56:04.430 --> 01:56:08.109
with pictures. Even if I take him by force to

01:56:08.109 --> 01:56:10.470
the Soviet Union and show him concentration camp,

01:56:10.670 --> 01:56:14.529
he will refuse to believe it until he is going

01:56:14.529 --> 01:56:18.750
to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When a military

01:56:18.750 --> 01:56:22.470
boot crashes, then he will understand. But not

01:56:22.470 --> 01:56:24.430
before that. That's the tragic of the situation

01:56:24.430 --> 01:56:27.609
of demoralization. Okay. Yeah, pretty fucking

01:56:27.609 --> 01:56:29.350
accurate. Well, he's describing the situation

01:56:29.350 --> 01:56:31.130
as it is at the moment, right? And he's describing

01:56:31.130 --> 01:56:34.369
it in 1984. However, that doesn't prove that

01:56:34.369 --> 01:56:38.270
intention to create that kind of chaos, that

01:56:38.270 --> 01:56:40.729
it was implemented and executed in the way that

01:56:40.729 --> 01:56:41.890
he describes. He's described the outcome. He's

01:56:41.890 --> 01:56:44.970
a KGB agent. Yeah, but... I suppose what I mean

01:56:44.970 --> 01:56:46.930
by that is... He's talking about a program that

01:56:46.930 --> 01:56:49.170
they implemented. So they had actual people in

01:56:49.170 --> 01:56:51.590
universities, planted in universities to deliberately

01:56:51.590 --> 01:56:54.170
execute this idea. Yeah, and they planned it

01:56:54.170 --> 01:56:56.350
in advance. This is what he was saying. And he's

01:56:56.350 --> 01:56:59.090
saying this before we even realized that it happened.

01:56:59.229 --> 01:57:01.510
I agree that's scary. It is scary because it

01:57:01.510 --> 01:57:04.750
did happen. But that doesn't fully explain why

01:57:04.750 --> 01:57:07.109
it caught on. Why did academics who were clearly

01:57:07.109 --> 01:57:09.199
not plants... Why did they catch on with this

01:57:09.199 --> 01:57:10.699
stuff? Well, they don't live in the fucking real

01:57:10.699 --> 01:57:12.939
world. This is the problem with academics. They

01:57:12.939 --> 01:57:15.500
go right from universities to teaching positions.

01:57:16.319 --> 01:57:18.520
I mean, they don't have any real world experience.

01:57:18.640 --> 01:57:20.100
I mean, this whole idea of the long march through

01:57:20.100 --> 01:57:22.260
the institutions is there in Rue de Deutschke.

01:57:22.359 --> 01:57:24.640
It was said, we're going to do this. We're going

01:57:24.640 --> 01:57:27.600
to infiltrate the major organizations, institutions,

01:57:27.779 --> 01:57:31.000
the church. We're going to, over a very long

01:57:31.000 --> 01:57:33.939
period of time, change society in the way that

01:57:33.939 --> 01:57:35.859
we want to see it. I think what's happened is,

01:57:35.880 --> 01:57:37.260
I think that intention was there. I think what

01:57:37.260 --> 01:57:40.300
he's saying is very eerily describing what's

01:57:40.300 --> 01:57:42.819
happening now, the demoralization and the detachment

01:57:42.819 --> 01:57:44.640
from truth. But I don't think it necessarily

01:57:44.640 --> 01:57:47.619
came about As systematically as that. How do

01:57:47.619 --> 01:57:49.899
you think it came about? Well, for one thing,

01:57:49.939 --> 01:57:52.520
I think what we're facing now isn't quite the

01:57:52.520 --> 01:57:54.960
template that Marx would have had in mind, right?

01:57:55.020 --> 01:57:57.539
Because for one thing, there's no emphasis on

01:57:57.539 --> 01:58:01.319
class or money or the economy or anything. Well,

01:58:01.439 --> 01:58:03.739
insofar as Marxism has become about group identity

01:58:03.739 --> 01:58:06.520
in terms of the left. Right, but eat the rich

01:58:06.520 --> 01:58:09.899
is a giant mantra that people chant in the streets.

01:58:10.000 --> 01:58:12.619
That's true. They're trying to tax billionaires.

01:58:13.020 --> 01:58:15.100
But it's incoherent because it's from people

01:58:15.100 --> 01:58:16.500
who've got money. money. It's from the upper

01:58:16.500 --> 01:58:18.239
middle classes. It doesn't have to be coherent.

01:58:18.939 --> 01:58:21.979
It's all just something, a narrative that you

01:58:21.979 --> 01:58:24.939
give the unwashed masses and then they run with

01:58:24.939 --> 01:58:26.899
it. Well, I wonder whether it caught on partly

01:58:26.899 --> 01:58:28.939
through what became fashionable, what became

01:58:28.939 --> 01:58:32.100
trendy, but also because any ideology says to

01:58:32.100 --> 01:58:33.539
you, you don't have to do any thinking anymore.

01:58:33.640 --> 01:58:36.079
You can outsource that to us. You've got a set

01:58:36.079 --> 01:58:37.739
of rules. Right. And these are the rules that

01:58:37.739 --> 01:58:39.899
you've got. People love that. Well, it's why

01:58:39.899 --> 01:58:41.520
you've got people who are, well, it's why you've

01:58:41.520 --> 01:58:43.500
got queers for Palestine. Right. You know, that

01:58:43.500 --> 01:58:45.100
can only exist when you're following a set of

01:58:45.100 --> 01:58:47.020
rules and not thinking about it for two seconds.

01:58:47.100 --> 01:58:50.260
Right. That's a wonderful group. I actually thought

01:58:50.260 --> 01:58:52.159
that was fake when I first heard about it, which

01:58:52.159 --> 01:58:53.600
must be about five years ago. You've seen the

01:58:53.600 --> 01:58:55.899
other meme. I thought it was unreal. Have you

01:58:55.899 --> 01:58:57.439
seen that meme? Which one? Queers for Palestine

01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:00.359
and then Palestine for queers. Oh, and I imagine.

01:59:00.579 --> 01:59:01.539
And they're throwing people off routes. Of course

01:59:01.539 --> 01:59:04.420
they are. Of course they are. I just say go and

01:59:04.420 --> 01:59:08.630
do, go, go, go there. And see what you see, see

01:59:08.630 --> 01:59:10.630
what you experience. Go there as a man in a dress

01:59:10.630 --> 01:59:12.949
wearing lipstick with a beard. Good luck. Yeah,

01:59:12.970 --> 01:59:15.350
I just did a Titania tweet of a drag queen touring

01:59:15.350 --> 01:59:17.029
the Middle East. And she's, you know, she's touring

01:59:17.029 --> 01:59:19.210
all these venues. And she's got this sort of

01:59:19.210 --> 01:59:22.869
Palestine dress and the sort of the glam kind

01:59:22.869 --> 01:59:27.710
of Arabic look. It's like, just go there and

01:59:27.710 --> 01:59:29.789
see what happens. But that kind of cognitive

01:59:29.789 --> 01:59:32.270
dissonance can only work if you are. Right. If

01:59:32.270 --> 01:59:35.470
you are. ideologically driven. And I think, so

01:59:35.470 --> 01:59:37.289
I suppose what I mean is I think the appeal of

01:59:37.289 --> 01:59:42.189
ideology is what explains, not a kind of, we've

01:59:42.189 --> 01:59:44.750
implanted these agents here. They're going to

01:59:44.750 --> 01:59:45.810
lead to this. They're going to lead to this.

01:59:45.869 --> 01:59:49.329
It has to also be complicity. Of course, but

01:59:49.329 --> 01:59:52.810
that comes from implanting ideas. Those ideas

01:59:52.810 --> 01:59:55.350
take hold and then groupthink takes it from there.

01:59:55.489 --> 01:59:57.470
But isn't it a shame that universities of all

01:59:57.470 --> 01:59:59.270
places, the place where you go to be challenged

01:59:59.270 --> 02:00:01.189
and the place where you go, I mean, I was thinking

02:00:01.189 --> 02:00:03.920
that when I was at Berkeley and, I was sitting

02:00:03.920 --> 02:00:06.300
on the stage and there's all these men with guns

02:00:06.300 --> 02:00:07.720
all around the theatre because, of course, what

02:00:07.720 --> 02:00:09.859
happened with Charlie? And I'm thinking, it's

02:00:09.859 --> 02:00:10.979
like the end of the Blues Brothers, you know,

02:00:11.039 --> 02:00:12.659
where you're on stage and all the people are

02:00:12.659 --> 02:00:15.619
waiting. It felt weird. And I thought, this is

02:00:15.619 --> 02:00:19.859
not what a university is or should be. And the

02:00:19.859 --> 02:00:21.460
other thing that I thought is a lot of those

02:00:21.460 --> 02:00:24.000
people outside protesting. weren't students they'd

02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:26.819
sort of come in they'd been bussed in so maybe

02:00:26.819 --> 02:00:28.380
that feeds into what you were saying about you

02:00:28.380 --> 02:00:31.380
know this is 100 planned and how are they getting

02:00:31.380 --> 02:00:34.020
bussed in who's funding them Right. People are

02:00:34.020 --> 02:00:36.560
paying a lot of money to do that. Right. And

02:00:36.560 --> 02:00:38.319
they're doing it all over the country. To what

02:00:38.319 --> 02:00:40.659
end? They did it during the presidential elections.

02:00:40.979 --> 02:00:43.439
Yeah. During the presidential elections, they

02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:46.739
were tracking cell phones from place to place.

02:00:46.819 --> 02:00:48.460
Right. And they realized that there was a group

02:00:48.460 --> 02:00:51.800
of people that were paid attendees at Kamala

02:00:51.800 --> 02:00:53.560
Harris's rallies. Oh, yeah. I remember that.

02:00:53.680 --> 02:00:56.979
So they were getting paid. Their job was to show

02:00:56.979 --> 02:00:58.899
up and cheer for Kamala Harris. Do you think

02:00:58.899 --> 02:01:00.819
fundamentally, then, the Democrats are anti -democratic?

02:01:01.899 --> 02:01:05.579
I think fundamentally anybody that doesn't have

02:01:05.579 --> 02:01:09.260
organic support is going to figure out a way

02:01:09.260 --> 02:01:12.579
in this environment to drum it up. And if you

02:01:12.579 --> 02:01:16.039
can do that through a service or if you can do

02:01:16.039 --> 02:01:18.420
that through an NGO or if you can do that through

02:01:18.420 --> 02:01:20.420
a company that will hire people to show up at

02:01:20.420 --> 02:01:22.420
your rallies, they do it because they want to

02:01:22.420 --> 02:01:24.640
win and they want to get into a position of power.

02:01:24.760 --> 02:01:27.319
And one of the things that we do find with Trump

02:01:27.319 --> 02:01:30.220
is that it actually turns out the president can

02:01:30.220 --> 02:01:33.189
do a lot. Yeah. And we used to think that they

02:01:33.189 --> 02:01:35.170
were kind of handcuffed and they weren't able

02:01:35.170 --> 02:01:37.109
to do as much and that's why nothing ever got

02:01:37.109 --> 02:01:39.890
done. Turns out that doesn't seem to be true.

02:01:39.970 --> 02:01:42.529
You get a maniac in office, you can kind of get

02:01:42.529 --> 02:01:44.250
away with a lot of things. You can do a lot of

02:01:44.250 --> 02:01:45.550
different things. That's what we sort of need

02:01:45.550 --> 02:01:47.909
in the UK. We need someone to come in and strip

02:01:47.909 --> 02:01:50.369
away. What we need, what Besmanoff was saying,

02:01:50.449 --> 02:01:55.439
is that we need to... Kind of a whole generation

02:01:55.439 --> 02:01:58.119
that teaches that being patriotic and having

02:01:58.119 --> 02:02:00.260
morals and ethics is actually a good thing. Yeah,

02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:04.460
and that free speech is important and that to

02:02:04.460 --> 02:02:09.279
Be able to debate ideas is essential to any sort

02:02:09.279 --> 02:02:15.699
of true Society that considers itself an elevated

02:02:17.260 --> 02:02:21.100
Absolutely. Modern version of what we hoped for

02:02:21.100 --> 02:02:23.720
when this country was founded. Yeah. It wasn't

02:02:23.720 --> 02:02:27.819
founded on the idea that it's you have to adhere

02:02:27.819 --> 02:02:30.899
to one ideology. And this ideology thinks that

02:02:30.899 --> 02:02:33.479
gender is not real and no one can answer what

02:02:33.479 --> 02:02:36.319
a woman is. That's crazy. That's become popular.

02:02:36.479 --> 02:02:38.439
Well, we see in America, like America is the

02:02:38.439 --> 02:02:40.479
kind of life raft of the world. You've got all

02:02:40.479 --> 02:02:42.060
these things built into your political system.

02:02:42.380 --> 02:02:44.960
And that's why it's so scary when you see people.

02:02:45.319 --> 02:02:47.699
Do you remember the vice presidential debate

02:02:47.699 --> 02:02:50.539
between J .D. Vance and Tim Walz? And Tim Walz

02:02:50.539 --> 02:02:53.060
said that the First Amendment doesn't cover hate

02:02:53.060 --> 02:02:56.520
speech. It doesn't cover misinformation. He's

02:02:56.520 --> 02:02:59.180
a dangerous fuck. That's scary. If the guy who

02:02:59.180 --> 02:03:01.739
might be vice president is saying, actually,

02:03:01.859 --> 02:03:04.079
we're going to strip out all of this stuff. Also,

02:03:04.079 --> 02:03:08.100
just the way he behaves is so odd. The way he

02:03:08.100 --> 02:03:11.199
waves and runs on stage, it's all just so fake

02:03:11.199 --> 02:03:14.039
and performative. I don't know any men like that

02:03:14.039 --> 02:03:17.159
that aren't dangerous. Why was he picked? Probably

02:03:17.159 --> 02:03:20.720
because of the Minnesota stuff. It probably had

02:03:20.720 --> 02:03:22.560
something to do with what he was allowing to

02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:24.220
happen in Minnesota. They were probably making

02:03:24.220 --> 02:03:27.340
a ton of money. Right, okay, maybe. There's a

02:03:27.340 --> 02:03:29.800
reason why he had to resign. I mean, I'm clearly

02:03:29.800 --> 02:03:33.699
speculating. I have no idea. Moron when it comes

02:03:33.699 --> 02:03:36.520
to politics, but what I would what I would assume

02:03:36.520 --> 02:03:41.510
is that the For sure, he was informed of this

02:03:41.510 --> 02:03:44.550
fraud long in advance. If it wasn't for that

02:03:44.550 --> 02:03:46.750
Nick Shirley kid in those videos, and apparently

02:03:46.750 --> 02:03:50.430
Nick Shirley had been informed by the GOP there

02:03:50.430 --> 02:03:52.810
that this was all going on. So this gets exposed.

02:03:52.949 --> 02:03:54.949
It gets into the public zeitgeist. It becomes

02:03:54.949 --> 02:03:57.770
a huge news story. It's not a coincidence that

02:03:57.770 --> 02:04:00.350
the riots break out in the exact same place where

02:04:00.350 --> 02:04:03.310
all this fraud is being exposed because ICE is

02:04:03.310 --> 02:04:05.029
everywhere. They're all over the place, but it's

02:04:05.029 --> 02:04:08.939
not. The most violent interactions are the interactions

02:04:08.939 --> 02:04:10.420
that are happening in the place where the most

02:04:10.420 --> 02:04:12.859
fraud has been publicly exposed. Yeah. It's all

02:04:12.859 --> 02:04:15.859
by design. There's something very scary about

02:04:15.859 --> 02:04:18.300
it. Yeah. And so this guy knew about it in advance.

02:04:18.380 --> 02:04:21.000
How do we know? Well, one way we know. is because

02:04:21.000 --> 02:04:23.819
he's resigning. So there must be something. Right,

02:04:23.840 --> 02:04:25.800
there's something. He's not running for governor

02:04:25.800 --> 02:04:28.279
again. He was in the process of running for governor.

02:04:28.359 --> 02:04:30.420
He's decided to step out of public office entirely

02:04:30.420 --> 02:04:34.039
now. So maybe they told him, if you do not step

02:04:34.039 --> 02:04:36.000
out, you are going to be prosecuted. We know

02:04:36.000 --> 02:04:38.920
what you did. Or maybe he's going to fucking

02:04:38.920 --> 02:04:41.359
turn state's evidence. Who fucking knows? Imagine

02:04:41.359 --> 02:04:43.439
if he'd have won, him and Kamala Harris, if they

02:04:43.439 --> 02:04:45.779
would have been in charge. Oh, God. I don't think

02:04:45.779 --> 02:04:48.319
I would have come here. What if Elon doesn't

02:04:48.319 --> 02:04:50.970
buy Twitter and Kamala... Harris wins and Tim

02:04:50.970 --> 02:04:52.489
Walz is our vice president. But doesn't that

02:04:52.489 --> 02:04:55.949
just tell you how fragile freedom is? How close

02:04:55.949 --> 02:04:57.890
you are? Very fragile. And that's why people

02:04:57.890 --> 02:04:59.710
support Donald Trump and the people that think

02:04:59.710 --> 02:05:01.350
that they support him because he's a racist and

02:05:01.350 --> 02:05:02.890
all these different things. No, no, no. They

02:05:02.890 --> 02:05:04.510
support it because it's an alternative to what

02:05:04.510 --> 02:05:07.789
we all saw coming. No one's excited that ICE

02:05:07.789 --> 02:05:10.489
is killing people in the streets. No one likes

02:05:10.489 --> 02:05:12.449
that. No, of course not. You'd have to be fucking

02:05:12.449 --> 02:05:14.949
insane if you think those people should be just

02:05:14.949 --> 02:05:17.420
getting shot like that. That's nuts. But what

02:05:17.420 --> 02:05:20.939
they don't want is what the government was previously

02:05:20.939 --> 02:05:23.560
doing. They had a completely open border. They

02:05:23.560 --> 02:05:26.739
were busing people into swing states. They were

02:05:26.739 --> 02:05:28.720
trying to pretend that this was all organic.

02:05:28.939 --> 02:05:32.680
And it's not. It's not. They had a plan. And

02:05:32.680 --> 02:05:34.460
they did it in a sneaky way where they looked

02:05:34.460 --> 02:05:37.500
like the really kind, ethical, equitable and

02:05:37.500 --> 02:05:40.399
inclusive. Right. But that's the woke story all

02:05:40.399 --> 02:05:42.560
over again. Exactly. It was the woke stories

02:05:42.560 --> 02:05:45.319
applied to geopolitics. It was the woke stories

02:05:45.319 --> 02:05:48.100
applied to the whole political process in this

02:05:48.100 --> 02:05:50.600
country was dependent upon the census, which

02:05:50.600 --> 02:05:53.380
the census doesn't count citizens. The census

02:05:53.380 --> 02:05:56.239
just counts humans. And so you get more congressional

02:05:56.239 --> 02:05:59.920
seats. You get more electoral points. The whole

02:05:59.920 --> 02:06:01.500
thing is nuts. I mean, I like to think that not

02:06:01.500 --> 02:06:03.600
all Democrats are into that. Not all Democrats

02:06:03.600 --> 02:06:05.399
are about the power for its own sake. Of course

02:06:05.399 --> 02:06:08.140
not. But the problem is it's a party. If you

02:06:08.140 --> 02:06:10.079
work for a corporation and you're a good person,

02:06:10.159 --> 02:06:13.220
but the corporation is polluting a river in Guatemala,

02:06:13.560 --> 02:06:15.779
there's a diffusion of responsibility because

02:06:15.779 --> 02:06:18.119
you're a part of a giant system. And, hey, I'm

02:06:18.119 --> 02:06:20.180
just an accountant. I go to work and I do my

02:06:20.180 --> 02:06:23.960
thing for Exxon or Mobil or whatever it is. Well,

02:06:23.979 --> 02:06:25.739
I'd say for however messy all of this has become

02:06:25.739 --> 02:06:27.720
in the U .S., at least you have had some sort

02:06:27.720 --> 02:06:30.060
of attempt to strip out the very stuff that that

02:06:30.060 --> 02:06:31.619
guy was talking about. The fact that the civil

02:06:31.619 --> 02:06:33.939
service is all one way, the fact that the machinery

02:06:33.939 --> 02:06:36.420
of government, that was the plan, right? So the

02:06:36.420 --> 02:06:38.159
machinery of government works in a certain way.

02:06:38.279 --> 02:06:40.119
So there's no democratic means of getting rid

02:06:40.119 --> 02:06:42.439
of it. There's no way to change it. Well, I think

02:06:42.439 --> 02:06:44.920
the counter to that is the education that the

02:06:44.920 --> 02:06:47.159
Internet provides. And that's where they didn't

02:06:47.159 --> 02:06:50.779
anticipate in 1984. So the education that the

02:06:50.779 --> 02:06:53.569
Internet provides is untethered. But then the

02:06:53.569 --> 02:06:55.409
internet tells us that... Christopher Nolan's

02:06:55.409 --> 02:06:56.710
just made a film with the Black Helen of Troy,

02:06:56.789 --> 02:07:00.489
and he hasn't. It produces all sorts of unsavory

02:07:00.489 --> 02:07:04.029
things, too. But it also allows the distribution

02:07:04.029 --> 02:07:06.689
of information that would be impossible through

02:07:06.689 --> 02:07:09.930
normal means. If these people are, as he said,

02:07:09.989 --> 02:07:12.789
in control of major media, which they were, in

02:07:12.789 --> 02:07:15.029
control of universities, which they are, and

02:07:15.029 --> 02:07:17.569
then it goes on to be the only way people get

02:07:17.569 --> 02:07:20.189
information, now your information is very heavily

02:07:20.189 --> 02:07:22.189
filtered, and then all that stuff works. But

02:07:22.189 --> 02:07:25.909
that's why the technology... in the EU, why ideologues

02:07:25.909 --> 02:07:28.609
generally are against internet or they want to

02:07:28.609 --> 02:07:30.909
censor it. That's why Macron is trying to stop

02:07:30.909 --> 02:07:34.890
X in France. Or whoever's trying to stop it.

02:07:35.069 --> 02:07:37.409
So the EU, the head of the EU commission is Ursula

02:07:37.409 --> 02:07:39.229
von der Leyen. Did you hear her? It's a great

02:07:39.229 --> 02:07:41.550
name, by the way. Well, yeah, it's a sexy name,

02:07:41.609 --> 02:07:46.210
right? Yeah. She's unelected. The European Commission

02:07:46.210 --> 02:07:48.310
is an unelected body that sets the legislative

02:07:48.310 --> 02:07:50.970
agenda of all these European countries. Absolutely

02:07:50.970 --> 02:07:53.739
crazy. You can't vote them out. She did a speech

02:07:53.739 --> 02:07:57.140
last May where she said, and I'm not joking about

02:07:57.140 --> 02:07:59.680
this, she said that misinformation was like a

02:07:59.680 --> 02:08:02.039
virus and you need to inoculate yourself against

02:08:02.039 --> 02:08:05.399
the virus. And the phrase she used is not debunking,

02:08:05.420 --> 02:08:08.819
pre -bunking. So pre -bunking is her idea of

02:08:08.819 --> 02:08:10.560
what you do with misinformation. What she means

02:08:10.560 --> 02:08:13.979
is censorship. But pre -bunking is the most sinister.

02:08:13.979 --> 02:08:17.020
That's crazy. If you were to say, I'm going to

02:08:17.020 --> 02:08:19.420
come up with the most Orwellian, sort of Dark

02:08:19.420 --> 02:08:23.079
Lord kind of sith. Pre -bunking. Pre -bunking.

02:08:23.079 --> 02:08:25.560
Yeah, that's like fucking minority report, right?

02:08:25.699 --> 02:08:27.640
Pre -crime. I don't know what the... Because

02:08:27.640 --> 02:08:30.420
I know that there's this free speech debate opening

02:08:30.420 --> 02:08:32.760
up between the US and Europe generally. Like,

02:08:32.760 --> 02:08:34.279
you know when J .D. Vance came over to Munich

02:08:34.279 --> 02:08:35.920
and gave that talk to all the European leaders

02:08:35.920 --> 02:08:39.020
and said, you've got to stop censoring your people.

02:08:39.140 --> 02:08:40.739
You've got to stop running away from voters.

02:08:40.899 --> 02:08:42.800
And they were shocked. Yeah. And they were horrified.

02:08:42.800 --> 02:08:44.539
But he was dead right. He was dead right. And

02:08:44.539 --> 02:08:46.170
he should... And you know what? People on the

02:08:46.170 --> 02:08:48.149
left should admit that he's dead right as well.

02:08:48.430 --> 02:08:50.409
But there's something about Europe, right? There's

02:08:50.409 --> 02:08:52.569
something about, like I think over here, coming

02:08:52.569 --> 02:08:54.909
over here, I get the sense that even if most

02:08:54.909 --> 02:08:57.170
left -leaning people as well as right -leaning

02:08:57.170 --> 02:09:00.529
people do value free speech as a kind of shared

02:09:00.529 --> 02:09:03.949
value. And in Europe, it's not that. There's

02:09:03.949 --> 02:09:07.210
a real sense of we can't trust the masses. Because

02:09:07.210 --> 02:09:09.829
I know that the EU is seen as this big lefty

02:09:09.829 --> 02:09:12.630
thing, which it absolutely is not. The EU is

02:09:12.630 --> 02:09:15.930
a body that wants to censor. It's citizens. It's

02:09:15.930 --> 02:09:18.289
a body that tells people you can have a referendum,

02:09:18.430 --> 02:09:19.630
but if you get it wrong, we're going to make

02:09:19.630 --> 02:09:22.029
you vote again. It's not a democratic organization.

02:09:22.550 --> 02:09:25.149
So no wonder Vance is sort of and Trump is at

02:09:25.149 --> 02:09:26.789
loggerheads with this body because you've got

02:09:26.789 --> 02:09:29.329
these. We in the UK have a authoritarian leader,

02:09:29.449 --> 02:09:31.590
Keir Starmer, the prime minister. He couldn't

02:09:31.590 --> 02:09:34.310
be further away from the American ideal of free

02:09:34.310 --> 02:09:37.210
speech. He introduced this online safety bill.

02:09:37.579 --> 02:09:40.100
Which is basically, this is why a lot of tweets

02:09:40.100 --> 02:09:42.340
in the UK, if you go to the UK now, a lot of

02:09:42.340 --> 02:09:43.640
the tweets will come up saying this is potentially

02:09:43.640 --> 02:09:46.659
harmful content. So we're screening it out. You

02:09:46.659 --> 02:09:48.800
know, they're trying to get rid of juries for

02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:50.720
certain trials. They did get rid of juries. They

02:09:50.720 --> 02:09:52.699
already did. And that's particularly dangerous

02:09:52.699 --> 02:09:56.920
because some of those cases are for speech crime.

02:09:57.340 --> 02:10:00.159
Right. So I'll give you an example. There was

02:10:00.159 --> 02:10:02.619
a Royal Marine called Jamie Michael who had made

02:10:02.619 --> 02:10:04.859
a video just saying we need to peacefully protest

02:10:04.859 --> 02:10:07.560
against the migration issue. They took him to

02:10:07.560 --> 02:10:11.180
court for stirring up racial hatred. But the

02:10:11.180 --> 02:10:13.319
jury is what let him off. It was the jury that

02:10:13.319 --> 02:10:16.199
saved him. In this new system, there wouldn't

02:10:16.199 --> 02:10:18.819
be a jury there. And he would be in prison. Yeah.

02:10:19.079 --> 02:10:21.680
And most certainly would be in prison. So I kind

02:10:21.680 --> 02:10:23.939
of feel like, and we've got Keir Starmer now

02:10:23.939 --> 02:10:25.760
for another three years. Every decision that

02:10:25.760 --> 02:10:28.640
he makes is about not trusting the public, censoring

02:10:28.640 --> 02:10:31.279
what they think. If he could get rid of X, he

02:10:31.279 --> 02:10:33.560
absolutely would. Is it possible that someone

02:10:33.560 --> 02:10:37.060
sensible could win in three years? Or is the

02:10:37.060 --> 02:10:42.039
system so deeply entwined in the ideology of

02:10:42.039 --> 02:10:44.600
the English people that it's just stuck? This

02:10:44.600 --> 02:10:46.340
is what I think about that. Because I look at

02:10:46.340 --> 02:10:48.859
America and I think, in a way, you had your culture

02:10:48.859 --> 02:10:51.260
war election because of Trump, right? Yeah. I

02:10:51.260 --> 02:10:52.779
mean, a lot of people say the culture war doesn't

02:10:52.779 --> 02:10:54.800
matter. Of course it does. Of course it matters.

02:10:55.610 --> 02:10:58.409
Did you see about that, the advert that the GOP

02:10:58.409 --> 02:11:00.350
put out, you know, Kamala Harris is for they,

02:11:00.409 --> 02:11:02.409
them, Trump is for you. That was the slogan.

02:11:02.609 --> 02:11:05.949
It was about the Democrats wanting to fund transgender

02:11:05.949 --> 02:11:09.310
surgery for prisoners. And Donald Trump's team

02:11:09.310 --> 02:11:11.750
had this advert, Kamala Harris for they, them,

02:11:11.909 --> 02:11:15.710
Donald Trump is for you. That actuated a 2 .7

02:11:15.710 --> 02:11:17.909
shift in favor of Donald Trump among everyone

02:11:17.909 --> 02:11:20.850
who saw it. It was a major success. That just

02:11:20.850 --> 02:11:22.859
shows that. These issues, these cultural issues,

02:11:23.020 --> 02:11:25.060
people do care. Oh, they care. And people do

02:11:25.060 --> 02:11:27.399
vote. But you had a way in America to vote that

02:11:27.399 --> 02:11:30.420
stuff out through Trump, right? We've never had

02:11:30.420 --> 02:11:33.699
that. But they barely had a way. Like, if they

02:11:33.699 --> 02:11:36.560
had more time, they wouldn't have. You mean if

02:11:36.560 --> 02:11:38.539
the Democrats had come? Yeah, absolutely. If

02:11:38.539 --> 02:11:40.979
the Democrats won this time and then they try

02:11:40.979 --> 02:11:44.329
to do it again in 2028. Elon was really adamant

02:11:44.329 --> 02:11:46.130
about that during the last election. Like, this

02:11:46.130 --> 02:11:49.170
might be the last real election we have if you

02:11:49.170 --> 02:11:52.369
don't stop this now, because they have an open

02:11:52.369 --> 02:11:55.350
border. And in the last four years, they've pulled

02:11:55.350 --> 02:11:58.729
10, at least 10 million people into this country.

02:11:58.789 --> 02:12:02.029
And they've changed the electoral map. And then

02:12:02.029 --> 02:12:07.369
on top of that, there was both Schumer and Nancy

02:12:07.369 --> 02:12:10.649
Pelosi openly talking about letting these people

02:12:10.649 --> 02:12:13.220
vote. openly talking about giving these people

02:12:13.220 --> 02:12:15.920
a path to citizenship. And they had already put

02:12:15.920 --> 02:12:17.699
them on Medicaid. They had already put them on

02:12:17.699 --> 02:12:19.939
Social Security. They were giving them EBT cards.

02:12:20.060 --> 02:12:21.979
They were housing them at the Roosevelt Hotel

02:12:21.979 --> 02:12:24.119
in New York City. They were giving them money

02:12:24.119 --> 02:12:26.539
and helping them get to these states. They were

02:12:26.539 --> 02:12:30.960
flying them through into America and putting

02:12:30.960 --> 02:12:33.119
them in these places because they were trying

02:12:33.119 --> 02:12:36.029
to get voters. So another four years. Another

02:12:36.029 --> 02:12:37.569
four years, they might have had it completely

02:12:37.569 --> 02:12:39.409
locked up. You know, that's what the Democrats

02:12:39.409 --> 02:12:42.050
have said about the Republicans. I mean, Oprah

02:12:42.050 --> 02:12:43.670
Winfrey was saying this might be the last election

02:12:43.670 --> 02:12:46.569
we have if we don't vote for Kamala Harris. Meanwhile,

02:12:46.569 --> 02:12:49.590
Oprah Winfrey had Donald Trump on her show years

02:12:49.590 --> 02:12:52.710
ago and was asking him to be president. Yeah,

02:12:52.729 --> 02:12:54.890
they were mates, weren't they? Oh, yeah. Look,

02:12:55.210 --> 02:12:57.270
they all get captured. They all get captured

02:12:57.270 --> 02:13:00.010
by groupthink and ideology and they all get captured

02:13:00.010 --> 02:13:02.489
by money and protecting it and who's going to

02:13:02.489 --> 02:13:06.229
protect them. But we don't have that safety valve

02:13:06.229 --> 02:13:08.430
in the UK. So, like I say, you were able to,

02:13:08.449 --> 02:13:11.149
for all the imperfections, you were able to vote

02:13:11.149 --> 02:13:12.670
in an administration that was actually going

02:13:12.670 --> 02:13:16.029
to rip out. That whatever you call it. It showed

02:13:16.029 --> 02:13:17.649
the system is better. It showed the system is

02:13:17.649 --> 02:13:19.430
better. Even though the system was trying to

02:13:19.430 --> 02:13:22.789
get rigged, enough people revolted against it.

02:13:22.869 --> 02:13:27.250
Yes. But look at the ideas that you're attaching

02:13:27.250 --> 02:13:30.210
to this administration. Like, look, the ICE stuff

02:13:30.210 --> 02:13:32.869
is horrific. The people getting shot. It's horrific.

02:13:33.090 --> 02:13:35.270
We all agree to that. There's a lot of the authoritarian

02:13:35.270 --> 02:13:38.409
aspects. It's horrific. But what they've stopped

02:13:38.409 --> 02:13:42.130
is all of this illegal immigration. They've stopped

02:13:42.130 --> 02:13:44.880
all the illegal. Immigration, legal immigration

02:13:44.880 --> 02:13:46.760
is still available. And then what they've also

02:13:46.760 --> 02:13:50.420
done is investigate literally billions of dollars

02:13:50.420 --> 02:13:53.159
in fraud. And they're uncovering it over and

02:13:53.159 --> 02:13:55.380
over and over and over again. So there was obviously

02:13:55.380 --> 02:13:57.640
crime that was going on that was not being addressed

02:13:57.640 --> 02:13:59.659
by the previous party. And this is one of the

02:13:59.659 --> 02:14:01.359
reasons why they didn't want the Republicans

02:14:01.359 --> 02:14:04.359
getting in in the first place. So they still

02:14:04.359 --> 02:14:07.220
have to label them in the most horrific ways

02:14:07.220 --> 02:14:09.939
possible, accentuate all the negative aspects

02:14:09.939 --> 02:14:13.170
of what's going on with the ICE stuff. Not talk

02:14:13.170 --> 02:14:15.869
at all about the economy taking an uptick. Not

02:14:15.869 --> 02:14:18.289
talk at all about GDP. Not talk at all about

02:14:18.289 --> 02:14:20.750
tariffs being effective. Not talk at all about

02:14:20.750 --> 02:14:23.289
any of the positive things. Stopping wars. He

02:14:23.289 --> 02:14:25.210
stopped wars in multiple different countries.

02:14:25.350 --> 02:14:29.170
Stop conflicts. No one's talking at all in an

02:14:29.170 --> 02:14:32.550
objective sense. This is a Nazi party. These

02:14:32.550 --> 02:14:35.590
are fascists. We have to have no kings. Stop

02:14:35.590 --> 02:14:38.329
the fascists. So these narratives are just being...

02:14:38.600 --> 02:14:42.140
pushed out there constantly by the media, all

02:14:42.140 --> 02:14:45.180
the while these politicians are absolutely terrified

02:14:45.180 --> 02:14:47.600
that these investigations are going to start

02:14:47.600 --> 02:14:49.500
moving into their states and uncovering more

02:14:49.500 --> 02:14:51.500
and more and more fraud, which they're going

02:14:51.500 --> 02:14:53.720
to. I mean, I know you say it's so reckless,

02:14:53.800 --> 02:14:55.319
though, I think, as well for the Democrats to,

02:14:55.380 --> 02:14:57.989
like you say. Paint ice as Nazis. Talk about

02:14:57.989 --> 02:14:59.789
that this is the equivalent of the Gestapo. I

02:14:59.789 --> 02:15:01.810
think someone used that phrase. I mean, what

02:15:01.810 --> 02:15:02.890
you're saying about the shootings, obviously,

02:15:02.949 --> 02:15:05.250
we all agree it's absolutely horrific. Any kind

02:15:05.250 --> 02:15:07.609
of situation where the police inflict that kind

02:15:07.609 --> 02:15:08.789
of violence on someone needs to be thoroughly

02:15:08.789 --> 02:15:10.170
investigated and looked into and all the rest

02:15:10.170 --> 02:15:12.109
of it. But I'm concerned about the politicians

02:15:12.109 --> 02:15:14.689
I know. Go there. Get in the way of federal agents

02:15:14.689 --> 02:15:16.470
while they're enforcing the law. They're just

02:15:16.470 --> 02:15:19.810
trying to be popular. But they're putting people's

02:15:19.810 --> 02:15:23.819
lives at risk. But it's, again, that chess move

02:15:23.819 --> 02:15:27.579
again, giving up the rook or attacking a rook

02:15:27.579 --> 02:15:29.720
and giving up your queen because you just want

02:15:29.720 --> 02:15:32.279
the current victory. Well, it's working insofar

02:15:32.279 --> 02:15:34.640
as the public is turning against Trump because

02:15:34.640 --> 02:15:36.119
of what's happening with ICE. There's certainly

02:15:36.119 --> 02:15:38.329
a lot of that. Yeah, there's certainly a lot

02:15:38.329 --> 02:15:41.149
of that. The narrative is out there. But it's

02:15:41.149 --> 02:15:44.130
dependent upon how far it goes. Yeah. Right.

02:15:44.210 --> 02:15:47.050
They've got to de -escalate this violence. Yes.

02:15:47.189 --> 02:15:49.369
They've got to make sure that that. But you also

02:15:49.369 --> 02:15:51.449
need support of local police. You can't have

02:15:51.449 --> 02:15:54.310
people attack the hotels where these ICE people

02:15:54.310 --> 02:15:56.989
are staying and have no support whatsoever by

02:15:56.989 --> 02:15:58.989
the police. That's crazy. They're being told

02:15:58.989 --> 02:16:01.609
to stand down. So this is messy stuff. Yeah.

02:16:02.569 --> 02:16:04.350
But look how hard it was. I mean, you talk about

02:16:04.350 --> 02:16:07.390
how, you know, Trump has come in and he stripped

02:16:07.390 --> 02:16:09.510
away all this stuff and this fraud. But that

02:16:09.510 --> 02:16:11.369
was, he didn't do it in the first term. It's

02:16:11.369 --> 02:16:12.569
only when he got to the second term and it was

02:16:12.569 --> 02:16:15.350
planned. And he had Doge set up and he had Musk

02:16:15.350 --> 02:16:17.829
in place. And all of this deep state stuff could

02:16:17.829 --> 02:16:19.670
be identified and stripped out and worked on.

02:16:19.670 --> 02:16:21.909
He had a lot of deep state people in his cabinet

02:16:21.909 --> 02:16:23.630
the first term. Right. He didn't know. So he

02:16:23.630 --> 02:16:25.810
couldn't work against it. Right. But we can't,

02:16:25.810 --> 02:16:28.750
in the UK, just to sort of explain where I think

02:16:28.750 --> 02:16:32.190
we are there. We can't do that because we have

02:16:32.190 --> 02:16:34.709
– the two major parties are both ideologically

02:16:34.709 --> 02:16:37.549
in lockstep effectively, right? So, I mean, most

02:16:37.549 --> 02:16:39.709
of the woke stuff was pushed through the conservative

02:16:39.709 --> 02:16:42.969
party. They were in power for 13 years. They're

02:16:42.969 --> 02:16:44.409
ostensibly right -wing. They pushed through the

02:16:44.409 --> 02:16:46.229
woke stuff? They pushed through all the gender

02:16:46.229 --> 02:16:48.530
self -recognition stuff. Why do you think the

02:16:48.530 --> 02:16:50.969
conservatives did that? So the why is a good

02:16:50.969 --> 02:16:52.989
question. So the prime minister, Theresa May,

02:16:53.069 --> 02:16:55.530
conservative prime minister at the time, she

02:16:55.530 --> 02:16:57.750
said in her autobiography, I'm woke and proud.

02:16:59.799 --> 02:17:01.520
Can you imagine Trump saying that? It's the equivalent.

02:17:01.840 --> 02:17:04.680
It's the equivalent. So I think it's because

02:17:04.680 --> 02:17:07.459
something about this ideology infected every

02:17:07.459 --> 02:17:10.459
side of the political aisle, particularly in

02:17:10.459 --> 02:17:14.219
the UK. What might happen now in the UK is reform

02:17:14.219 --> 02:17:15.659
are probably going to win the next election.

02:17:15.959 --> 02:17:18.840
That's in three years' time. And that's so seismic

02:17:18.840 --> 02:17:21.120
because it will blow apart this two -party system

02:17:21.120 --> 02:17:22.780
that we've got. That probably couldn't happen

02:17:22.780 --> 02:17:24.000
in America, right? You probably couldn't get

02:17:24.000 --> 02:17:26.479
a third party that can win. We have a third party

02:17:26.479 --> 02:17:28.799
that can win. That's new. Really? And we haven't

02:17:28.799 --> 02:17:30.940
had that. For a long, long, long, long time.

02:17:30.979 --> 02:17:33.540
But what is the possibility that it could win?

02:17:33.639 --> 02:17:35.299
You think it's 50 -50? Look at it this way. We've

02:17:35.299 --> 02:17:37.340
been sort of veering massively from, you know,

02:17:37.360 --> 02:17:39.479
the conservatives under Boris Johnson won this

02:17:39.479 --> 02:17:42.659
mad, mad majority, like 80 seat majority. And

02:17:42.659 --> 02:17:44.159
they could do whatever they want and they squandered

02:17:44.159 --> 02:17:46.459
it. People were so resentful of what happened

02:17:46.459 --> 02:17:49.420
with Johnson, who, by the way, let in so more

02:17:49.420 --> 02:17:51.540
migration than illegal migration than we've ever

02:17:51.540 --> 02:17:54.420
had. Right. Did he do that for cheap labor? Probably.

02:17:54.790 --> 02:17:56.290
I mean, I think that's certainly part of it.

02:17:56.389 --> 02:17:58.729
Certainly that's part of it. That's a problem

02:17:58.729 --> 02:18:01.069
that conservatives don't want to admit that they

02:18:01.069 --> 02:18:03.969
were. You know, I had a conversation with a very

02:18:03.969 --> 02:18:06.670
prominent politician who explained to me that

02:18:06.670 --> 02:18:08.610
he had a conversation with a guy who was a CEO

02:18:08.610 --> 02:18:10.510
of a corporation that didn't want to stop the

02:18:10.510 --> 02:18:12.649
flow of illegal immigration because he wanted

02:18:12.649 --> 02:18:15.270
cheap labor. He was flabbergasted. He was like,

02:18:15.290 --> 02:18:17.370
I can't fucking believe this guy's saying this

02:18:17.370 --> 02:18:20.049
out loud. It's worse with Johnson because in

02:18:20.049 --> 02:18:22.270
their manifesto, they pledged not to do it. So

02:18:22.270 --> 02:18:24.680
they had a promise. They call it the Boris wave.

02:18:25.260 --> 02:18:28.379
So that's how bad it was. And then you have Starmer

02:18:28.379 --> 02:18:30.799
and the Labour Party who are just as bad, if

02:18:30.799 --> 02:18:33.360
not worse. And, you know, we have a situation

02:18:33.360 --> 02:18:36.040
where it's unmanageable now. And reform, this

02:18:36.040 --> 02:18:38.340
third party, Nigel Farage's party, is saying,

02:18:38.360 --> 02:18:40.659
no, we're actually going to tackle this. And,

02:18:40.719 --> 02:18:43.079
of course, ultimately what happens is the public,

02:18:43.100 --> 02:18:45.770
they reach a tipping point and they say. By the

02:18:45.770 --> 02:18:48.350
way, Starmer is the least popular prime minister

02:18:48.350 --> 02:18:50.930
on any opinion poll ever in the history of records.

02:18:51.329 --> 02:18:54.229
He's gone from a massive majority to nothing

02:18:54.229 --> 02:18:57.229
because he's been so useless on all of this stuff,

02:18:57.290 --> 02:18:59.909
because he's been so captured by the ideology,

02:19:00.010 --> 02:19:01.489
because he doesn't care about migration, because

02:19:01.489 --> 02:19:03.790
he said that anyone who was concerned about the

02:19:03.790 --> 02:19:06.629
grooming gang scandal was jumping on a bandwagon

02:19:06.629 --> 02:19:10.430
of the far right. That's what he said. So all

02:19:10.430 --> 02:19:11.969
of this has happened, but you can't blame the

02:19:11.969 --> 02:19:14.680
left. It's the left and the right. It's both

02:19:14.680 --> 02:19:16.479
of them. It's why they call it the uni party.

02:19:16.819 --> 02:19:19.239
It's the same thing. So you need something else

02:19:19.239 --> 02:19:21.600
to come along and explode it. What do you think

02:19:21.600 --> 02:19:24.579
the possibility of Farage winning? Pretty high.

02:19:24.780 --> 02:19:26.840
If it were today, he'd win. If he didn't get

02:19:26.840 --> 02:19:30.040
whacked between now and then. Do you guys whack

02:19:30.040 --> 02:19:31.719
people over there very often? Less than here.

02:19:31.959 --> 02:19:35.299
I think it's more an American thing. It's a lot

02:19:35.299 --> 02:19:37.200
easier. A lot more guns over here. There's a

02:19:37.200 --> 02:19:40.719
lot more guns. Fingers crossed, obviously, that

02:19:40.719 --> 02:19:47.139
won't happen. If it was today, he'd win. I mean,

02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:49.040
he could mess things up. Something crazy could

02:19:49.040 --> 02:19:51.600
happen. Get caught with a live boy or a dead

02:19:51.600 --> 02:19:54.079
girl. Something like that. But I think with Starmer,

02:19:54.239 --> 02:19:57.399
people are just sick of it. He has continually

02:19:57.399 --> 02:19:59.260
backtracked on all his promises. He's not interested.

02:19:59.479 --> 02:20:01.659
He dismisses people's concerns about immigration.

02:20:02.040 --> 02:20:04.239
He dismisses people concerned about the mass

02:20:04.239 --> 02:20:06.000
rape of children in the grooming gang scandal.

02:20:06.360 --> 02:20:08.739
They had to be dragged kicking and screaming

02:20:08.739 --> 02:20:10.780
to do an inquiry about that. They didn't want

02:20:10.780 --> 02:20:14.579
to do it. They're so terrified of being called

02:20:14.579 --> 02:20:16.840
racist ultimately, so they let this thing slide.

02:20:17.540 --> 02:20:19.420
So I think people are just sick of it. I think

02:20:19.420 --> 02:20:21.579
people have reached the point where even I think

02:20:21.579 --> 02:20:23.700
people who don't like Nigel Farage will hold

02:20:23.700 --> 02:20:26.680
their nose and vote for a third party to explode

02:20:26.680 --> 02:20:29.139
the system. And maybe we might be able to reset

02:20:29.139 --> 02:20:31.059
after that. Maybe something could happen. One

02:20:31.059 --> 02:20:32.620
of the things that's interesting in America is

02:20:32.620 --> 02:20:34.659
a lot of young people are becoming conservative.

02:20:35.319 --> 02:20:37.620
That is interesting. Yeah. It's interesting because

02:20:37.620 --> 02:20:40.100
I think that's a force of the Internet. And being

02:20:40.100 --> 02:20:42.959
a conservative more today is more like being

02:20:42.959 --> 02:20:45.840
a rebel. Yeah. It's like bucking this system.

02:20:45.979 --> 02:20:48.840
Whereas it used to be that if you were a rebel,

02:20:48.959 --> 02:20:52.000
you were left wing. You were like you're a hippie.

02:20:52.000 --> 02:20:54.040
Yeah. You know, and that's not really the case

02:20:54.040 --> 02:20:57.379
anymore because the system that has power is

02:20:57.379 --> 02:20:59.819
a system that is pushing this one very particular

02:20:59.819 --> 02:21:05.020
ideology that. also demonizes young males. Hugely.

02:21:05.120 --> 02:21:06.920
Yeah. But that's also why I don't think it's

02:21:06.920 --> 02:21:09.000
about left and right anymore. I think one of

02:21:09.000 --> 02:21:11.020
the things about the culture war is it kind of

02:21:11.020 --> 02:21:13.040
killed off left and right. Like I say, in the

02:21:13.040 --> 02:21:15.459
UK, we couldn't vote this out. We had a right

02:21:15.459 --> 02:21:17.520
-wing party. It didn't make a difference. The

02:21:17.520 --> 02:21:20.159
left -wing party makes it worse. We had a prime

02:21:20.159 --> 02:21:22.000
minister, you know, Keir Starmer on radio saying

02:21:22.000 --> 02:21:26.799
that 99 .9 % of men, women don't have a penis,

02:21:27.000 --> 02:21:29.420
which means that there are... What is it, 35

02:21:29.420 --> 02:21:32.780
,000 female penises out there? It's quite a lot,

02:21:32.780 --> 02:21:35.459
if you can picture that image. So that's our

02:21:35.459 --> 02:21:37.659
prime minister saying this crazy... Our deputy

02:21:37.659 --> 02:21:40.239
prime minister said on TV that you could grow

02:21:40.239 --> 02:21:44.940
a cervix if you wanted. So that's David Lammy.

02:21:45.520 --> 02:21:47.319
That sounds like I'm making that up. He said

02:21:47.319 --> 02:21:49.360
that. You can check that. He said you could grow

02:21:49.360 --> 02:21:51.739
a cervix. So these are the kind of people who

02:21:51.739 --> 02:21:54.139
are in charge now. It's just all about their

02:21:54.139 --> 02:21:57.239
fake... You know, fake ideology. Which is why

02:21:57.239 --> 02:21:59.420
Internet censorship is so much more prominent

02:21:59.420 --> 02:22:01.000
there. That's what's going to happen. No, that's

02:22:01.000 --> 02:22:02.159
why they're going to absolutely try to do that.

02:22:02.239 --> 02:22:04.239
Yeah, exactly. Well, they are doing it. Just

02:22:04.239 --> 02:22:06.520
self -censorship by arresting people. There's

02:22:06.520 --> 02:22:09.059
a lot of censorship involved in scare. Yeah.

02:22:09.159 --> 02:22:11.979
Just in the fear of being arrested. But the problem

02:22:11.979 --> 02:22:14.000
for reform will be, do they have the guts to

02:22:14.000 --> 02:22:15.559
do what Trump did? Do they have the guts to come

02:22:15.559 --> 02:22:17.979
in and say, look, we need to scrap the civil

02:22:17.979 --> 02:22:19.840
service. Well, you can't scrap the civil service,

02:22:19.879 --> 02:22:22.379
but you need to sort of bleed it dry. You need

02:22:22.379 --> 02:22:25.500
to give it a good rinse, right? Because there

02:22:25.500 --> 02:22:27.719
have been whistleblowers in the UK civil service

02:22:27.719 --> 02:22:30.040
who've said, we're not going to do what the elected

02:22:30.040 --> 02:22:33.040
politicians say. If they come in and say there's

02:22:33.040 --> 02:22:35.159
an immigration problem, we're just going to stymie

02:22:35.159 --> 02:22:36.940
that. We're not going to do what they want. We've

02:22:36.940 --> 02:22:41.000
got police who are routinely investigating people

02:22:41.000 --> 02:22:43.959
for their opinions. Just to put that into context,

02:22:44.020 --> 02:22:46.219
by the way, if we're talking about this deep

02:22:46.219 --> 02:22:48.299
state that we've got to clean out, our police

02:22:48.299 --> 02:22:50.959
force... is trained by a body called the College

02:22:50.959 --> 02:22:53.780
of Policing. They have been telling police for

02:22:53.780 --> 02:22:55.579
years, it's your job to arrest people for what

02:22:55.579 --> 02:22:58.780
they think and what they say. And the High Court

02:22:58.780 --> 02:23:02.139
told them, you've got to stop this. You've got

02:23:02.139 --> 02:23:03.940
to stop recording non -crime hate incidents.

02:23:04.459 --> 02:23:06.540
Two Home Secretaries said to them, you've got

02:23:06.540 --> 02:23:08.680
to stop recording non -crime hate incidents.

02:23:08.860 --> 02:23:12.299
They ignored the courts. They ignored the government.

02:23:13.120 --> 02:23:15.780
And that's the power of an ideologically captured

02:23:15.780 --> 02:23:18.739
quango. You know, that's that's the problem.

02:23:19.000 --> 02:23:21.920
So even when you even when you vote for a party

02:23:21.920 --> 02:23:23.540
that's going to strip this stuff out, you still

02:23:23.540 --> 02:23:26.219
have to do the actual hard work of stripping

02:23:26.219 --> 02:23:28.000
out. I would abolish the College of Policing.

02:23:28.059 --> 02:23:29.840
Do people know about non -crime hate incidents?

02:23:30.020 --> 02:23:32.020
Do they do they know that this is a thing in

02:23:32.020 --> 02:23:33.559
America? Do they know that that's what we do?

02:23:33.739 --> 02:23:35.639
Not really. I mean, people are just aware that

02:23:35.639 --> 02:23:37.440
there's a lot of arrests because of social media

02:23:37.440 --> 02:23:40.219
posts. We don't we don't pay nearly as much attention

02:23:40.219 --> 02:23:42.860
to the UK as the UK pays attention to American

02:23:42.860 --> 02:23:45.819
politics. And that's fair enough. Because we're

02:23:45.819 --> 02:23:47.559
a small island, that's fair enough. But what

02:23:47.559 --> 02:23:50.239
I would say is it's worse than people think insofar

02:23:50.239 --> 02:23:52.659
as the 12 ,000 arrested a year, that's horrific.

02:23:53.340 --> 02:23:55.700
But with the police routinely checking up on

02:23:55.700 --> 02:23:58.180
you if you commit non -crime, that's sort of

02:23:58.180 --> 02:24:01.899
even worse, isn't it? The Scottish police have

02:24:01.899 --> 02:24:03.819
a database of jokes that they've seen online

02:24:03.819 --> 02:24:05.299
that they think are problematic and they've kept

02:24:05.299 --> 02:24:07.559
this. The Scottish police introduced a hate crime

02:24:07.559 --> 02:24:10.680
bill two years ago now, which can prosecute you

02:24:10.680 --> 02:24:12.840
for things you say in your own house. There's

02:24:12.840 --> 02:24:14.920
a section in that bill on... The public performance

02:24:14.920 --> 02:24:17.059
of a play. So if a play is offensive, they can

02:24:17.059 --> 02:24:18.979
arrest you. If you're the director or an actor

02:24:18.979 --> 02:24:20.819
involved in the play and it's considered offensive,

02:24:21.040 --> 02:24:23.760
they can arrest you. They set up when they when

02:24:23.760 --> 02:24:25.239
they implemented that hate crime bill, they set

02:24:25.239 --> 02:24:28.620
up hate crime reporting centers. So if you felt

02:24:28.620 --> 02:24:30.180
offended, you could. And they converted like

02:24:30.180 --> 02:24:32.420
there was a sex shop. I think there was a mushroom

02:24:32.420 --> 02:24:35.440
farm. You could go report hate to the police

02:24:35.440 --> 02:24:38.760
as and when it occurs. And this is coming from

02:24:38.760 --> 02:24:41.590
the. The police force, the people who are supposed

02:24:41.590 --> 02:24:44.270
to sustain authority and prevent criminality.

02:24:44.690 --> 02:24:47.030
And you've seen the viral videos of police knocking

02:24:47.030 --> 02:24:49.489
on people's doors saying, you said this thing

02:24:49.489 --> 02:24:52.729
online. That's insane. So I think it's worse

02:24:52.729 --> 02:24:56.190
than just the arrest. I think it's a rotten system

02:24:56.190 --> 02:25:00.129
that is being trained by activists in the College

02:25:00.129 --> 02:25:02.629
of Policing that no government will deal with.

02:25:02.850 --> 02:25:06.049
They don't get rid of these activists. And the

02:25:06.049 --> 02:25:08.090
activists, when they're told to stop it, they

02:25:08.090 --> 02:25:12.139
carry on. The entire culture has to shift. That's

02:25:12.139 --> 02:25:13.920
what I mean. Yeah. That's what I mean. You need

02:25:13.920 --> 02:25:16.319
a politician to go in and say, scrap the college

02:25:16.319 --> 02:25:18.799
policing, strip out all the activists within

02:25:18.799 --> 02:25:20.520
the NHS, within the army, within the police,

02:25:20.680 --> 02:25:23.399
within the Crown Prosecution Service. It also

02:25:23.399 --> 02:25:25.819
has to get so bad that people realize how bad

02:25:25.819 --> 02:25:27.979
it is and they need radical change. But I think

02:25:27.979 --> 02:25:30.079
the grooming gangs did that. Yeah. I think the

02:25:30.079 --> 02:25:32.120
fact that we effectively sacrificed thousands

02:25:32.120 --> 02:25:35.200
of kids on the altar of ideology, the fact that

02:25:35.200 --> 02:25:38.940
we said. You know, there were politicians, counselors,

02:25:39.260 --> 02:25:43.260
doctors, social workers saying we don't want

02:25:43.260 --> 02:25:44.920
to be called racist. So we're going to ignore

02:25:44.920 --> 02:25:48.020
the sexual assault of children on a mass scale.

02:25:48.159 --> 02:25:50.459
And that was not really thoroughly covered here

02:25:50.459 --> 02:25:52.799
in America. Really? In mainstream news. I think

02:25:52.799 --> 02:25:56.059
because Elon. No, online it was, but not in mainstream

02:25:56.059 --> 02:25:58.200
news. So do people not generally know about that?

02:25:58.319 --> 02:26:00.620
They know about it now. Right. But it wasn't

02:26:00.620 --> 02:26:02.899
something that you would see every night on CNN.

02:26:03.459 --> 02:26:07.100
Really? That's a huge story. But the power of

02:26:07.100 --> 02:26:10.659
being called racist became so intense. I mean,

02:26:10.680 --> 02:26:13.180
even, you know, that horrible bombing at the

02:26:13.180 --> 02:26:15.120
Manchester Arena at the Ariana Grande concert.

02:26:15.639 --> 02:26:18.100
In the subsequent report of what went wrong,

02:26:18.420 --> 02:26:22.040
one of the security guards said he saw the perpetrator

02:26:22.040 --> 02:26:24.879
with the rucksack and he didn't approach him

02:26:24.879 --> 02:26:26.200
or apprehend him because he was afraid of being

02:26:26.200 --> 02:26:28.540
called racist. That was the reason. And as a

02:26:28.540 --> 02:26:30.280
result of that, two dozen children lost their

02:26:30.280 --> 02:26:34.219
lives. The power of... of smearing someone as

02:26:34.219 --> 02:26:37.540
racist is so potent, which is why I think here

02:26:37.540 --> 02:26:40.319
in America, the word fascist, the word Nazi gets

02:26:40.319 --> 02:26:43.000
thrown around so much because they know if someone

02:26:43.000 --> 02:26:45.979
is so branded, you disoblige yourself from having

02:26:45.979 --> 02:26:47.719
to engage with their ideas. They become this

02:26:47.719 --> 02:26:49.979
kind of monster that you don't have to even think

02:26:49.979 --> 02:26:52.579
about or worry about. And we're just, I think

02:26:52.579 --> 02:26:54.739
we're just getting over that in the UK now where

02:26:54.739 --> 02:26:57.680
the accusation of racism no longer really sticks.

02:26:58.020 --> 02:27:00.000
I think people think it doesn't mean anything

02:27:00.000 --> 02:27:03.809
anymore. And, you know, They've tried with reform.

02:27:03.950 --> 02:27:05.389
They've tried saying that reform is a racist

02:27:05.389 --> 02:27:08.549
party. It's a far right party. No one's buying

02:27:08.549 --> 02:27:11.549
it anymore. And I think that's why hopefully

02:27:11.549 --> 02:27:13.709
something can change. I think the grooming gangs,

02:27:13.829 --> 02:27:16.290
I think the mass immigration, to the extent where

02:27:16.290 --> 02:27:19.370
people now are at risk, they just are. Unvetted

02:27:19.370 --> 02:27:22.209
people, many with criminal records. We don't

02:27:22.209 --> 02:27:23.969
want to go the way of Sweden. I mean, you know

02:27:23.969 --> 02:27:26.450
how bad Sweden's got, right? You know, Sweden

02:27:26.450 --> 02:27:30.389
used to be the most high trust society in Europe,

02:27:30.549 --> 02:27:34.670
low crime. They allowed mass immigration on a

02:27:34.670 --> 02:27:36.829
scale they couldn't possibly contain. I think

02:27:36.829 --> 02:27:39.629
it's now 20 % of Swedish population are now foreign

02:27:39.629 --> 02:27:42.909
born. And predominantly they live in ghettos

02:27:42.909 --> 02:27:45.209
where crime is rife. They didn't integrate. There

02:27:45.209 --> 02:27:47.610
was no expectation they should integrate. And

02:27:47.610 --> 02:27:49.770
as a result of that, it's gone from being one

02:27:49.770 --> 02:27:52.049
of the safest countries in Europe to being the

02:27:52.049 --> 02:27:55.469
country that has most gun and bomb attacks of

02:27:55.469 --> 02:27:58.190
any country not at war except for Mexico. And

02:27:58.190 --> 02:28:00.469
that's happened in the space of 10 years. Crazy.

02:28:00.889 --> 02:28:02.149
It's an absolute tragedy. I remember when it

02:28:02.149 --> 02:28:04.190
was going on, a Swedish stand -up friend of mine,

02:28:04.270 --> 02:28:07.750
Tobias Pearson, texted me saying, there's grenades

02:28:07.750 --> 02:28:10.870
going off in Stockholm. There's gunfire on my

02:28:10.870 --> 02:28:13.530
street. And the politicians are doing nothing

02:28:13.530 --> 02:28:15.190
about it. They're saying this doesn't matter.

02:28:16.129 --> 02:28:17.850
I was in Sweden a couple of years ago. I was

02:28:17.850 --> 02:28:20.209
talking to a bunch of, you know what Swedes are

02:28:20.209 --> 02:28:22.069
like. They're very middle class, very, well,

02:28:22.110 --> 02:28:26.149
not all of them, but very liberal. Not a racist

02:28:26.149 --> 02:28:28.670
shred in their body. And they all came back to

02:28:28.670 --> 02:28:30.110
the same story. They all wanted to discuss immigration.

02:28:30.729 --> 02:28:32.209
And they all come back to the same thing. One

02:28:32.209 --> 02:28:33.909
woman said to me, I got this wrong. We got this

02:28:33.909 --> 02:28:37.370
wrong. Why do you think they did it? Good intentions,

02:28:37.610 --> 02:28:41.489
first and foremost. Really? Really? You think

02:28:41.489 --> 02:28:43.309
it's just good intentions to let all those people

02:28:43.309 --> 02:28:45.670
in? Have you met Swedes? I have. They're so lovely.

02:28:45.870 --> 02:28:48.389
Come on. It's happening in America. It's happening

02:28:48.389 --> 02:28:50.909
in England. It's happening in the UK. Yes. It's

02:28:50.909 --> 02:28:53.549
happening in Ireland. It's just good intentions

02:28:53.549 --> 02:28:57.149
everywhere. Could it also be this delusion, this

02:28:57.149 --> 02:28:59.379
idea? What you would call, I suppose, liberal

02:28:59.379 --> 02:29:02.219
universalism, this idea that everyone is basically

02:29:02.219 --> 02:29:05.379
the same. Everyone in every culture basically

02:29:05.379 --> 02:29:08.219
wants the same things. It explains the queers

02:29:08.219 --> 02:29:10.299
for Palestine phenomenon. You know, it doesn't

02:29:10.299 --> 02:29:12.040
matter where you go. No, no, no. The queers for

02:29:12.040 --> 02:29:14.180
Palestine phenomenon is explained by the Internet

02:29:14.180 --> 02:29:16.219
and people being stupid and being in a bubble

02:29:16.219 --> 02:29:18.540
where they never experienced those folks. I don't

02:29:18.540 --> 02:29:21.260
think I think this is organized. I think it's

02:29:21.260 --> 02:29:24.219
organized. I think the more chaos there is, the

02:29:24.219 --> 02:29:26.780
more they can crack down on your rights. I know

02:29:26.780 --> 02:29:28.219
you think it's organized. I'm not convinced of

02:29:28.219 --> 02:29:32.680
that yet. I'm open to it. I mean, it's at one

02:29:32.680 --> 02:29:35.399
point in time, it's fairly universal in Western

02:29:35.399 --> 02:29:38.299
societies. But in Europe, yes. In America as

02:29:38.299 --> 02:29:41.459
well. The last four years before Trump got into

02:29:41.459 --> 02:29:43.299
office, that's what they were doing here. It

02:29:43.299 --> 02:29:45.799
seems like a strategy. It doesn't seem as simple

02:29:45.799 --> 02:29:48.159
as just good intentions. I know. Well, and that

02:29:48.159 --> 02:29:49.899
does seem too simplistic. I absolutely agree

02:29:49.899 --> 02:29:52.459
with that. You create more chaos. The more chaos

02:29:52.459 --> 02:29:55.180
you have, the more laws you need. The more laws

02:29:55.180 --> 02:29:57.260
you need, the more control you have. But speaking

02:29:57.260 --> 02:29:58.620
to these people in Sweden, I mean, I was there.

02:29:58.639 --> 02:30:00.239
It was an event where we were talking about a

02:30:00.239 --> 02:30:02.500
book I'd written. So it was all about these issues.

02:30:02.559 --> 02:30:04.739
And I was mingling and talking to them. And they

02:30:04.739 --> 02:30:06.659
all wanted to talk about it. But they're the

02:30:06.659 --> 02:30:08.879
citizens. They're not the people that implemented

02:30:08.879 --> 02:30:11.059
those laws in the first place. That's where I'm

02:30:11.059 --> 02:30:13.239
cynical. I think the people that implement those

02:30:13.239 --> 02:30:14.600
laws in the first place, they know what they're

02:30:14.600 --> 02:30:18.010
doing. Yes. Well, certainly they're aware of

02:30:18.010 --> 02:30:19.430
the risks. I mean, if you take what happened

02:30:19.430 --> 02:30:20.930
in Cologne, that New Year's Eve party, where

02:30:20.930 --> 02:30:23.069
I think over 800 women were sexually assaulted

02:30:23.069 --> 02:30:27.729
and the media didn't report it. And the government

02:30:27.729 --> 02:30:29.430
wanted to sort of minimalize and say that this

02:30:29.430 --> 02:30:31.690
wasn't real. It's not even just the risks. It's

02:30:31.690 --> 02:30:34.870
the physical, actual, measurable consequences.

02:30:35.170 --> 02:30:37.270
Yes, exactly. And they're not course correcting.

02:30:37.670 --> 02:30:40.309
That, to me, leads me to think that they know

02:30:40.309 --> 02:30:42.379
what they're doing. You don't think it could

02:30:42.379 --> 02:30:44.379
just be complete naivety, this idea that... I

02:30:44.379 --> 02:30:46.040
think it's the best way to combat the internet.

02:30:46.260 --> 02:30:47.940
The best way to combat the internet is create

02:30:47.940 --> 02:30:50.579
a massive amount of chaos and then crack down

02:30:50.579 --> 02:30:52.200
on people's lives. I suppose what worries me

02:30:52.200 --> 02:30:55.520
about it is that the assumption that it's all

02:30:55.520 --> 02:30:58.440
sort of coordinated will take you down that route

02:30:58.440 --> 02:31:00.700
where you start thinking, as some friends of

02:31:00.700 --> 02:31:03.299
mine now think... The world is controlled by

02:31:03.299 --> 02:31:05.340
a group of Satanists who sit in a room and they

02:31:05.340 --> 02:31:08.440
choose the leaders. Do you know what I mean?

02:31:08.520 --> 02:31:10.360
Well, I don't think it's Satanists, but I think

02:31:10.360 --> 02:31:13.200
it's incredibly wealthy people. But why would

02:31:13.200 --> 02:31:14.959
it be in their interest to destroy the economy

02:31:14.959 --> 02:31:17.139
that so sustains them? Well, it depends on where

02:31:17.139 --> 02:31:19.860
they are and who they are. But George Soros clearly

02:31:19.860 --> 02:31:22.500
does that. And he's talked about it. He's talked

02:31:22.500 --> 02:31:26.579
about enjoying destroying democracies and enjoying

02:31:26.579 --> 02:31:28.799
destroying countries. He's kicked. He's not allowed

02:31:28.799 --> 02:31:30.739
to go into certain countries. He makes money

02:31:30.739 --> 02:31:33.579
doing it. But he relies on those democratic societies

02:31:33.579 --> 02:31:35.239
to make, you know. Yeah, but they're still functional.

02:31:35.440 --> 02:31:37.579
He just profits off of it largely. That's what

02:31:37.579 --> 02:31:44.040
I struggle with, though. dream can't you can

02:31:44.040 --> 02:31:50.819
it's subject to manipulation yeah and intelligent

02:31:50.819 --> 02:31:54.420
evil people or at least amoral but this doesn't

02:31:54.420 --> 02:31:56.139
this doesn't answer why people do vote for it

02:31:56.139 --> 02:31:57.920
and they do i mean they do vote for it because

02:31:57.920 --> 02:32:00.940
they've done a really good job of attaching it

02:32:01.209 --> 02:32:03.149
And there's also this ideology thing. There's

02:32:03.149 --> 02:32:05.389
left and right. And if you're left, you're blue

02:32:05.389 --> 02:32:08.270
no matter who, blue to the grave. That's it.

02:32:08.409 --> 02:32:11.090
And if anybody that votes red is a dirty racist

02:32:11.090 --> 02:32:13.870
fascist and they think about it that way. And

02:32:13.870 --> 02:32:16.350
we really have no option for a centrist party

02:32:16.350 --> 02:32:18.709
in this country, which is where most people lie.

02:32:18.850 --> 02:32:21.030
Most people lie in the middle. Most people are

02:32:21.030 --> 02:32:23.909
very socially liberal. And most of the people

02:32:23.909 --> 02:32:26.049
that I know that even identify as conservative,

02:32:26.149 --> 02:32:29.329
they're very socially liberal. But they're financially

02:32:29.329 --> 02:32:32.250
much more aligned with conservative ideology.

02:32:32.690 --> 02:32:35.950
Sure. Well, I think ultimately, hopefully, the

02:32:35.950 --> 02:32:38.969
brick wall of reality is what cures this. If

02:32:38.969 --> 02:32:42.719
we don't destroy society along the way. If we

02:32:42.719 --> 02:32:45.299
don't allow them to destroy society, we don't

02:32:45.299 --> 02:32:47.780
completely erode all of our rights along the

02:32:47.780 --> 02:32:50.299
way. And as you said earlier, you can get very

02:32:50.299 --> 02:32:52.840
close to that happening. And rights lost are

02:32:52.840 --> 02:32:56.200
never regained. Never. Look at Australia. They

02:32:56.200 --> 02:32:58.059
had one mass shooting. They took their guns in

02:32:58.059 --> 02:32:59.940
the 1990s. Then COVID came. They're like, get

02:32:59.940 --> 02:33:02.520
in a fucking camp. Yeah. And they've just introduced

02:33:02.520 --> 02:33:05.200
a new hate speech law off the back of the Bondi

02:33:05.200 --> 02:33:07.770
Beach shooting. And of course, this. Again, it's

02:33:07.770 --> 02:33:11.190
really draconian. It goes way too far. In fact,

02:33:11.209 --> 02:33:12.930
I think the Australian hate speech law is basically

02:33:12.930 --> 02:33:15.049
saying if someone does something that wasn't

02:33:15.049 --> 02:33:17.930
intended to stir up hatred, but it could conceivably

02:33:17.930 --> 02:33:20.389
have stirred up hatred among a theoretical group

02:33:20.389 --> 02:33:22.770
or group of people, then it's a crime and you

02:33:22.770 --> 02:33:24.370
can get five years in prison. Sure. And imagine

02:33:24.370 --> 02:33:28.129
blaming that on hate speech instead of blaming

02:33:28.129 --> 02:33:32.649
it on just letting wild, violent criminals emigrate

02:33:32.649 --> 02:33:34.670
into your country. I mean, that's imagine. Yeah.

02:33:35.120 --> 02:33:39.659
What an amazing gaslighting. Not saying, hey,

02:33:39.780 --> 02:33:42.040
maybe we should stop letting violent criminals

02:33:42.040 --> 02:33:45.139
enter into our country illegally and live here.

02:33:45.319 --> 02:33:47.700
No, no, no. What we should start doing is taking

02:33:47.700 --> 02:33:50.659
people that have done no crime whatsoever and

02:33:50.659 --> 02:33:54.739
create their dissent, create a crime based on

02:33:54.739 --> 02:33:57.079
their dissent. I totally agree. We had it in

02:33:57.079 --> 02:33:59.879
the UK. We had a politician, horrible story,

02:33:59.979 --> 02:34:03.709
a guy called David Amis. You know, he was stabbed

02:34:03.709 --> 02:34:05.729
to death by an Islamist at his surgery. You know,

02:34:05.770 --> 02:34:07.770
politicians, we call them surgeries where you

02:34:07.770 --> 02:34:10.190
meet face to face your constituents. They come

02:34:10.190 --> 02:34:11.850
and you talk about the local issues. I don't

02:34:11.850 --> 02:34:14.549
think they do that in America. He stabbed him

02:34:14.549 --> 02:34:16.590
to death. And then there was this parliamentary

02:34:16.590 --> 02:34:18.969
debate about how can we crack down on free speech

02:34:18.969 --> 02:34:21.889
online? Right. No, the problem was the knife

02:34:21.889 --> 02:34:25.489
wielding maniac. The problem was gaslighting,

02:34:25.489 --> 02:34:27.950
unchecked Islamism. I mean, it really is what

02:34:27.950 --> 02:34:30.520
Besminov was saying. Yeah, it's that thing of

02:34:30.520 --> 02:34:32.479
not addressing the – like after the – But not

02:34:32.479 --> 02:34:34.780
seeing the truth. Not seeing the truth because

02:34:34.780 --> 02:34:37.379
you've been captured. You've been demoralized.

02:34:37.399 --> 02:34:38.979
But I think what's better now is that people

02:34:38.979 --> 02:34:42.139
can see through that. So like when Keir Starmer

02:34:42.139 --> 02:34:43.780
– after that horrible – I mentioned it earlier,

02:34:43.819 --> 02:34:45.340
the girls who were killed in the dance class

02:34:45.340 --> 02:34:50.799
by the guy who was a child of immigrants. His

02:34:50.799 --> 02:34:55.010
response to that was, OK, let's not – you know,

02:34:55.010 --> 02:34:56.670
deal with the fact that we've got radicalized

02:34:56.670 --> 02:34:58.750
individuals within our community, young people.

02:34:59.010 --> 02:35:01.409
He said, let's ban buying knives off Amazon.

02:35:02.290 --> 02:35:04.290
Because the guy got the knife from Amazon, right?

02:35:04.709 --> 02:35:07.430
You can also get them in shops, Keir. You can

02:35:07.430 --> 02:35:08.829
walk in and get a shop. Most people have a kitchen

02:35:08.829 --> 02:35:11.489
knife at home. It's like one of the most common

02:35:11.489 --> 02:35:13.950
weapons. And he banned ninja swords around the

02:35:13.950 --> 02:35:16.090
same time, which was a big blow to the ninja

02:35:16.090 --> 02:35:19.969
community. But I kind of... So crazy. That's

02:35:19.969 --> 02:35:22.530
the thing you go for. You choose the thing that

02:35:22.530 --> 02:35:25.709
isn't. But this is the idea of allowing this

02:35:25.709 --> 02:35:28.729
kind of chaos and having this be a coordinated

02:35:28.729 --> 02:35:31.809
plan, right? The more chaos you have, the more

02:35:31.809 --> 02:35:34.049
you gaslight people, the more people are attached

02:35:34.049 --> 02:35:36.510
to an ideology, the more you can keep restricting

02:35:36.510 --> 02:35:38.690
their rights further and further and further

02:35:38.690 --> 02:35:40.690
until they're more and more frustrated, until

02:35:40.690 --> 02:35:43.129
a lot of them just give up. But we are at a position

02:35:43.129 --> 02:35:44.489
now where people are seeing through it all the

02:35:44.489 --> 02:35:48.040
time. In the UK now, like no matter how much

02:35:48.040 --> 02:35:50.120
they smear reform as far right, the polls just

02:35:50.120 --> 02:35:51.860
keep going up and up and up. Right. But it's

02:35:51.860 --> 02:35:53.920
because of the Internet, because you have at

02:35:53.920 --> 02:35:57.500
least some dissenting voices. We have that. And

02:35:57.500 --> 02:36:00.219
also the palpable absurdities of what the politicians

02:36:00.219 --> 02:36:03.299
are trying to tell you is real. Right. That's

02:36:03.299 --> 02:36:05.020
why they're trying to crack down on pub talk.

02:36:05.239 --> 02:36:07.020
Oh, and by the way, you know, the Labour Party

02:36:07.020 --> 02:36:08.799
has cancelled a number of local elections because

02:36:08.799 --> 02:36:10.479
they know they're going to lose them. They've

02:36:10.479 --> 02:36:12.809
actually cancelled them. Well, they've said they've

02:36:12.809 --> 02:36:14.670
postponed them while they're reforming the system.

02:36:15.129 --> 02:36:19.790
But it's stuff like that where... Get rid of

02:36:19.790 --> 02:36:22.709
the juries, cancel elections, and they're the

02:36:22.709 --> 02:36:25.389
good guys. And at that point, it doesn't matter

02:36:25.389 --> 02:36:27.049
how much your propaganda or how much you think

02:36:27.049 --> 02:36:28.590
your propaganda is going to work. The public

02:36:28.590 --> 02:36:30.829
are going to see through that. And they say,

02:36:30.889 --> 02:36:32.629
hang on a minute. You're saying that I can't

02:36:32.629 --> 02:36:34.090
vote. You're saying if I end up in court, I may

02:36:34.090 --> 02:36:35.969
not have a jury. You're saying I can't browse

02:36:35.969 --> 02:36:37.850
through Twitter. You're saying I can't say the

02:36:37.850 --> 02:36:40.010
wrong thing online. Enough is enough. And I think

02:36:40.010 --> 02:36:43.290
they reach a point. where they say, and some

02:36:43.290 --> 02:36:45.270
of the stories are so egregious, like, for instance,

02:36:45.409 --> 02:36:47.190
the guy, have you heard of a guy called Hamit

02:36:47.190 --> 02:36:50.270
Koskan? I think he's Armenian guy who burned

02:36:50.270 --> 02:36:52.510
a copy of his Koran outside the Turkish embassy,

02:36:52.709 --> 02:36:54.950
right? The idea of this was a protest against

02:36:54.950 --> 02:36:57.389
the Turkish government because he perceives Erdogan's

02:36:57.389 --> 02:37:00.690
government as, I suppose, supporting Islamism

02:37:00.690 --> 02:37:02.729
and the rise of Islamism. So he protests outside

02:37:02.729 --> 02:37:05.569
the thing, burns the Koran. Two people attack

02:37:05.569 --> 02:37:07.729
him, one with a knife, the other, some Deliveroo

02:37:07.729 --> 02:37:10.770
driver starts kicking him. He gets prosecuted

02:37:10.770 --> 02:37:12.829
in the court of law for inciting the violence.

02:37:13.309 --> 02:37:15.770
And the judge actually says, the fact that you

02:37:15.770 --> 02:37:17.670
were attacked is proof that you were inciting

02:37:17.670 --> 02:37:20.569
violence, right? It took the Free Speech Union

02:37:20.569 --> 02:37:22.889
in the UK to have that overturned, to fight on

02:37:22.889 --> 02:37:25.030
his behalf, to say, that's a peaceful protest.

02:37:25.370 --> 02:37:28.229
It was his copy of his book. We don't have blasphemy

02:37:28.229 --> 02:37:31.270
laws in the UK. But now the CPS, the Crown Prosecution

02:37:31.270 --> 02:37:32.969
Service, is trying to overturn that because they

02:37:32.969 --> 02:37:35.579
want to see this guy go down. And that is what

02:37:35.579 --> 02:37:37.579
we're talking about. We've got bodies like the

02:37:37.579 --> 02:37:39.059
Crown Prosecution Service saying, no, we want

02:37:39.059 --> 02:37:41.680
an Islamic blasphemy code in the UK. The Labour

02:37:41.680 --> 02:37:44.000
Party wants an official definition of Islamophobia.

02:37:44.340 --> 02:37:46.200
So you can't criticize. You can't peacefully

02:37:46.200 --> 02:37:48.579
protest. You can't burn a book that you bought,

02:37:48.639 --> 02:37:50.940
you know, and all of that. And we're seeing this

02:37:50.940 --> 02:37:53.620
happen in front of us. And people are just saying,

02:37:53.680 --> 02:37:55.500
look, we believe in plurality. We believe in

02:37:55.500 --> 02:37:57.620
freedom of religion. You should be able to, you

02:37:57.620 --> 02:37:59.219
know, we've got nothing against Muslim people.

02:37:59.959 --> 02:38:02.059
What we are objecting to is the idea that we

02:38:02.059 --> 02:38:04.020
shouldn't be able to ridicule your religion or

02:38:04.020 --> 02:38:05.840
mock your religion or protest against your religion.

02:38:06.079 --> 02:38:07.719
And you're going to pathologize it by saying

02:38:07.719 --> 02:38:10.639
we've got a sickness. We're Islamophobic. I think

02:38:10.639 --> 02:38:13.920
people I think that case, the fact that you can't

02:38:13.920 --> 02:38:16.579
burn. I mean, some kid in a school in Wakefield

02:38:16.579 --> 02:38:19.399
accidentally scuffed a copy of his Koran and

02:38:19.399 --> 02:38:21.559
he got hit with a non -crime hate incident. And

02:38:21.559 --> 02:38:23.760
there was a big issue and the police got involved.

02:38:24.159 --> 02:38:27.639
You know, we have to hold fast to this idea that.

02:38:28.360 --> 02:38:31.459
No, no idea. No idea doesn't get criticized.

02:38:31.819 --> 02:38:35.840
And so I just think the more stories like that

02:38:35.840 --> 02:38:39.120
happen, maybe I'm naive, but I think the British

02:38:39.120 --> 02:38:42.420
public's patience is kind of at the very end.

02:38:42.420 --> 02:38:44.299
I hope so. I hope it's not too late. I really

02:38:44.299 --> 02:38:48.479
do. But in the meantime, your book, The End of

02:38:48.479 --> 02:38:50.260
Woke, it's available. Did you do the audio version

02:38:50.260 --> 02:38:52.959
of it? I did. It took me ages. Yeah, I'm glad

02:38:52.959 --> 02:38:55.180
you did it, though. Yeah, I'm sure it is, but

02:38:55.180 --> 02:38:57.219
it's always so much better when it's in someone's

02:38:57.219 --> 02:39:00.020
voice, especially someone like you. Thank you,

02:39:00.020 --> 02:39:01.979
Andrew. Really appreciate it. And I hope you

02:39:01.979 --> 02:39:04.079
guys figure it out over there. But in the meantime,

02:39:04.159 --> 02:39:06.020
I'm glad you're here. Well, I got away. I'm glad.

02:39:06.399 --> 02:39:08.799
I'm glad, but I mean, it shouldn't be that everybody

02:39:08.799 --> 02:39:11.100
has to escape. That's crazy. No, I know. You

02:39:11.100 --> 02:39:12.780
know, it's nuts. And then what's going to be

02:39:12.780 --> 02:39:14.899
left? Like, only people that are submitting?

02:39:15.399 --> 02:39:17.819
And then the chaos of what you've allowed in?

02:39:17.879 --> 02:39:19.399
It's fucking nuts. Exactly. So you've got to

02:39:19.399 --> 02:39:21.540
make sure that America doesn't go to pot. I need

02:39:21.540 --> 02:39:24.559
this place to work. I need it to work too. Part

02:39:24.559 --> 02:39:26.940
of my business model. All right. Thank you. Bye,

02:39:27.020 --> 02:39:27.219
everybody.