WEBVTT 00:00:01.610 --> 00:00:04.730 Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we provide a deep-dive examination of the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #2440. Our mission is to offer a high-fidelity, searchable research resource for students of cultural history, emerging technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been specifically optimized for academic reference, linguistic study, and archival preservation regarding Cinema Industry Evolution, Storytelling Ethics, and Global Media Trends in 2026 Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan 00:00:04.730 --> 00:00:08.150 Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast by 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:13.830 night. All day. That's wild. I went in because 00:00:13.830 --> 00:00:16.449 I came in from Miami. I think I was leaving at 00:00:16.449 --> 00:00:21.000 the time. And I went in and... And I'm sitting 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:22.620 in the waiting room and it was like on a Sunday 00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:24.460 because it was, I was like, I'm only in town 00:00:24.460 --> 00:00:26.100 for you. And Stan was like, I'll come into the 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:27.519 office. I'm like, thank you so much. I had to 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:29.940 have some, a filling or whatever I needed. It's 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:31.780 a kind of an emergency. So I'm sitting in the 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:36.560 thing and, and I'm not getting called in, but 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.359 the ladies just, no, no, there's not even a receptionist. 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:41.829 And Stan comes out with his mask on. No, the 00:00:41.829 --> 00:00:44.509 first thing I hear is, pig fucker, fucking cock 00:00:44.509 --> 00:00:46.710 sucker, fucking pig fucker. And I'm like, what 00:00:46.710 --> 00:00:48.409 is happening in there? It's in the other room. 00:00:48.469 --> 00:00:51.030 And Stan comes in with his max on. He goes, sorry. 00:00:51.530 --> 00:00:52.810 He goes, I'll be with you soon. He goes, I got 00:00:52.810 --> 00:00:55.490 Hunter in the chair. And he goes back. And I 00:00:55.490 --> 00:00:58.210 hear, listen to Hunter Thompson swear for like 00:00:58.210 --> 00:01:00.530 15 minutes. I'm like, this is amazing. And then 00:01:00.530 --> 00:01:02.270 Stan goes, okay, come on back. And Hunter's kind 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:04.930 of getting out. And he goes, oh, you're sitting 00:01:04.930 --> 00:01:07.120 down with this guy? He's a fucking assassin. 00:01:09.140 --> 00:01:12.500 And then he goes, and he's got this jug of clear 00:01:12.500 --> 00:01:16.890 fluid. And he's like, you're going to need a 00:01:16.890 --> 00:01:18.870 sip of this. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:21.549 fucking Hunter S. Thompson's moonshine. I'm like, 00:01:21.549 --> 00:01:26.530 this is fucking amazing. I'm talking to this 00:01:26.530 --> 00:01:28.810 dude for 30 seconds and I'm getting a sip. And 00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:31.629 it was like 10 in the morning on a Sunday. Yeah. 00:01:32.370 --> 00:01:36.629 He was halfway through the jug. Where was this? 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:40.659 In Beverly Hills. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Brentwood. 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:42.920 Yeah, Brentwood was Stan's office. Oh, my God. 00:01:42.980 --> 00:01:46.200 That's amazing. It really was amazing. So I had 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:48.799 probably a total of seven minutes, you know, 00:01:48.819 --> 00:01:51.620 with him. And it was like I could not have been 00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:54.180 a better seven minutes. That's incredible. I 00:01:54.180 --> 00:01:56.400 went to the Woody Creek Tavern just to go there 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.239 because I know he used to go there. And, like, 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:00.459 you could, like, feel him in the building. You 00:02:00.459 --> 00:02:01.859 know, there's all the pictures on the walls. 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:03.879 It's a cool little place. I mean, those books, 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.620 fucking Hell's Angels and, you know, Fear and 00:02:06.620 --> 00:02:09.449 Loathing, it's some of the best writing. I just 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:12.250 fucking, like, he really had his own voice. Rum 00:02:12.250 --> 00:02:15.009 Diary, spectacular. You know, it was, like, really 00:02:15.009 --> 00:02:16.849 descriptive and punchy and fucking interesting 00:02:16.849 --> 00:02:19.050 and fucked up. And he also just lived that life. 00:02:19.210 --> 00:02:21.789 Fear and Loathing changed my life. Like, reading 00:02:21.789 --> 00:02:24.590 that book was like. What the fuck? Like, what 00:02:24.590 --> 00:02:27.729 is this guy doing? There's grown men out there. 00:02:28.270 --> 00:02:31.169 Balding, grown men with spectacles running around 00:02:31.169 --> 00:02:33.449 with them. There's lizards in the fucking lounge. 00:02:34.069 --> 00:02:39.270 He's got a day trip bag filled with acid. Like, 00:02:39.310 --> 00:02:42.490 what the fuck are you doing, man? And it's great 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:44.610 shit. It's like you fucking feel like you're 00:02:44.610 --> 00:02:47.409 on the adventure with him, you know? Yeah. No, 00:02:47.449 --> 00:02:50.710 it's interesting to watch the evolution of his 00:02:50.710 --> 00:02:53.449 writing, too. You know, like, I read Hell's Angels, 00:02:53.509 --> 00:02:55.830 and it's, like, very different. Yeah, it's early, 00:02:55.930 --> 00:02:58.050 he's kind of restrained, and he was quite, like, 00:02:58.110 --> 00:03:00.270 for that, I think it was edgy, sort of, for the 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:02.229 time. Yeah. Like, oh, you're going to get beaten, 00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:04.129 chain -whipped, and stomped by the angels, and 00:03:04.129 --> 00:03:06.430 that was really edgy. And by the time they got 00:03:06.430 --> 00:03:07.969 into, what, A Sphere of Loneliness, 72, or something 00:03:07.969 --> 00:03:10.789 like that, he was just out there. Yeah, he was 00:03:10.789 --> 00:03:13.430 gone. He found his voice. He did find his voice. 00:03:13.430 --> 00:03:16.629 He was supposed to be covering a race for, like, 00:03:16.629 --> 00:03:19.590 Sports Illustrated. That's a fear and loathing 00:03:19.590 --> 00:03:22.229 when I read a book about how I fucking lost my 00:03:22.229 --> 00:03:26.550 mind. Great. It's great, Hunter. We'll take it. 00:03:26.930 --> 00:03:29.210 Well, hey, it's very nice to meet you guys. I've 00:03:29.210 --> 00:03:30.629 met you before, but it's very nice to meet you. 00:03:30.770 --> 00:03:31.770 It's a pleasure, man. Thank you very much. I 00:03:31.770 --> 00:03:34.810 love the fucking movie. The rip is great. It's 00:03:34.810 --> 00:03:38.270 really good. It's so original, and it's so different, 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:40.810 and it's, you know, it's like I love those kinds. 00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:43.810 but it's not like any one that I've ever seen 00:03:43.810 --> 00:03:46.490 before. Really solid movie. Thanks, dude. Thank 00:03:46.490 --> 00:03:48.710 you. It was awesome. So much better than you 00:03:48.710 --> 00:03:51.530 hating it. The interviews where they're like, 00:03:51.569 --> 00:03:52.949 so I saw the movie. Anyway, how you guys been? 00:03:53.250 --> 00:03:55.810 We've had a lot of those. The press junkets where 00:03:55.810 --> 00:03:57.389 they come in and the first thing that you know 00:03:57.389 --> 00:03:59.949 the movie sucks. If they don't ask you anything 00:03:59.949 --> 00:04:01.169 about the movie, they come in and they go, so 00:04:01.169 --> 00:04:03.689 how you been? And you're like, oh, shit. This 00:04:03.689 --> 00:04:07.330 is going to be bad. Is it weird? The transformation 00:04:07.330 --> 00:04:10.569 of the film industry seems like a lot of it is 00:04:10.569 --> 00:04:13.030 moving towards these big streaming movies now. 00:04:13.979 --> 00:04:17.000 absolutely i mean look it's because where most 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.519 people have gone to watch them yeah like used 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:21.680 to be the only place you'd go see movies in the 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:23.699 40s like every american with the movie every 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:25.699 week basically but it was because it was that 00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:28.399 or watch the cows walk by you know that was the 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:31.079 only and then tv comes around it's little and 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.720 you see these little cereals But, you know, what 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.519 happened was now this is why it's totally changed 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.980 the whole thing because you have 300 million 00:04:38.980 --> 00:04:41.459 people, 330, whatever it is, watching, you know, 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.379 Netflix. And it's a lot harder to get people 00:04:44.379 --> 00:04:45.899 to go into the movies. There's also YouTube. 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:47.839 There's also TikTok. There's also my kids. Like, 00:04:47.899 --> 00:04:50.079 it's hard to get them excited about a movie. 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.620 Yeah. That's what we had. I mean. Yeah, that 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:55.779 was our. I mean, our teen years were just every 00:04:55.779 --> 00:04:58.209 weekend we're at the movies. Yeah. There's just 00:04:58.209 --> 00:04:59.810 no question about it. You were going to go and 00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:01.310 usually not get into one because there were too 00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:02.649 many people. And then you just see what else 00:05:02.649 --> 00:05:04.610 is playing and go to that. Well, it seems like 00:05:04.610 --> 00:05:06.550 it was kind of slipping away because so many 00:05:06.550 --> 00:05:08.629 people were watching streaming already. And then 00:05:08.629 --> 00:05:10.870 COVID came around and everyone was locked down 00:05:10.870 --> 00:05:14.009 and no one was going to the movie theater. I 00:05:14.009 --> 00:05:16.230 had this drama that was coming out right when 00:05:16.230 --> 00:05:19.149 COVID hit. I really liked the movie, performance 00:05:19.149 --> 00:05:20.970 movie. It's about an alcoholic guy whose kid 00:05:20.970 --> 00:05:24.170 dies and becomes an alcoholic. It's a dark movie, 00:05:24.269 --> 00:05:26.629 but I loved it. And I could tell, like, we're 00:05:26.629 --> 00:05:28.610 fucked. No one's going to go to the theater to 00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:30.250 see this movie. And it wasn't even that streaming 00:05:30.250 --> 00:05:33.310 really blew up, of course, during COVID. So, 00:05:33.350 --> 00:05:35.110 you know, look, they rushed it onto streaming. 00:05:35.149 --> 00:05:37.269 People actually saw it. I was like, look, all 00:05:37.269 --> 00:05:38.889 things being equal, I'd like people to see it, 00:05:38.930 --> 00:05:41.019 you know? And it's not like... My dad had an 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:42.839 11 -inch black -and -white TV, and that's what 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.759 was TV viewing. Now it's like $200. You've got 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.079 a fucking 65 -inch flat screen and good sound. 00:05:48.339 --> 00:05:50.100 So, of course, people are willing to. And then 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:53.160 streamers also started making great shows. You 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.779 have Adolescence. I think that's one of the best 00:05:55.779 --> 00:05:57.800 things ever done. I haven't seen Adolescence. 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.839 It's unbelievable. What is it? Oh, my God. I 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:03.439 don't want to spoil too much of it. It's only 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:05.660 four episodes. They're all one shot. They're 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:07.779 all one shot. Each episode is one entire shot. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.750 Whoa. So the cast, they took a. I talked to the 00:06:10.750 --> 00:06:12.449 director about it. The cast took, I think, a 00:06:12.449 --> 00:06:15.550 week to rehearse each one and then a week to 00:06:15.550 --> 00:06:18.870 shoot it. And so they do it twice a day. It's 00:06:18.870 --> 00:06:21.290 the full hour they would choreograph the entire 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:22.910 thing. It's a feat on itself. Yeah, it's really. 00:06:22.949 --> 00:06:25.829 And then the acting is great. But that's, I mean, 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:29.230 just dismiss that. You could even call it a gimmick. 00:06:29.230 --> 00:06:32.860 It's not in this case. The performances and the 00:06:32.860 --> 00:06:36.360 writing and what it's about, it's as good as 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.139 anything you'll see. It's phenomenal. What is 00:06:39.139 --> 00:06:43.800 it on? Netflix. It's not even an anomaly. There's 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.740 Baby Rangers, there's fucking Succession, there's 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:49.870 Game of Thrones, Ozarks. It's just like, okay, 00:06:49.949 --> 00:06:52.290 well, they're doing great shit out there. It's 00:06:52.290 --> 00:06:55.230 not like the sort of implied thing before was 00:06:55.230 --> 00:06:57.730 like, yeah, well, TV's not as good, not as interesting. 00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.610 When we started, there was a different... Like 00:07:00.610 --> 00:07:02.870 George Clooney, for instance, there was a big 00:07:02.870 --> 00:07:06.149 thing. He very famously became this superstar 00:07:06.149 --> 00:07:09.689 on ER. That show, 40 million people a week were 00:07:09.689 --> 00:07:11.250 watching that show. It was the biggest thing, 00:07:11.350 --> 00:07:13.660 right? because there were only a few channels 00:07:13.660 --> 00:07:15.319 to tune into, and that show was the biggest one. 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:18.500 And George never renegotiated his contract. He 00:07:18.500 --> 00:07:20.279 wanted to work in movies, and it was like, you 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.339 can't go from TV to movies. It's very hard. Very 00:07:22.339 --> 00:07:26.829 few people can do it. And he really... strategically 00:07:26.829 --> 00:07:30.009 and kind of patiently like he joked that on the 00:07:30.009 --> 00:07:32.889 last episode he was on Anthony Edwards you know 00:07:32.889 --> 00:07:35.050 his co -star was making a million bucks for the 00:07:35.050 --> 00:07:37.649 episode and he was making you know 20 grand or 00:07:37.649 --> 00:07:40.310 whatever his deal was like he could have renegotiated 00:07:40.310 --> 00:07:41.910 but he would have had to give more years that's 00:07:41.910 --> 00:07:44.870 how bad he wanted to get off TV right that's 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:46.730 how bad he wanted to get off the biggest TV show 00:07:46.730 --> 00:07:50.290 in the world because there was such a big kind 00:07:50.290 --> 00:07:53.269 of level change between features and TV. Well, 00:07:53.290 --> 00:07:55.269 it was a giant difference in quality. It was 00:07:55.269 --> 00:07:58.230 also the breaking it up for commercials. It was 00:07:58.230 --> 00:08:00.250 just a different experience. There's all these 00:08:00.250 --> 00:08:02.269 rules. You can't say this, you can't do that, 00:08:02.269 --> 00:08:04.569 you can't swear, you can't have violence and 00:08:04.569 --> 00:08:05.810 nudity, all the things people want to see in 00:08:05.810 --> 00:08:09.500 movies. and also it wasn't it wasn't as interesting 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:12.300 and then now that's a tethered to these schedules 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:14.560 and all the stuff whereas you get this like you 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.879 don't have a schedule and and you can take a 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.660 bunch of risks so and that started happening 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.040 And then it was kind of like, well, this all 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:23.399 is just as good, if not better, than what's in 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:25.279 the movies. Well, then movies started to move 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:27.920 towards more IP. Because it was hard to get people 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:29.420 to come to the movies, everyone got scared and 00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:31.579 thought, well, it has to be a sequel or a superhero 00:08:31.579 --> 00:08:35.059 movie. And so an interesting little movie, kind 00:08:35.059 --> 00:08:37.639 of in the 90s when we kind of came onto the scene, 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:40.179 there were a lot of really good independent movies 00:08:40.179 --> 00:08:43.980 that were being made. It was a really great time 00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:46.899 to be making movies. People were making daring 00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:50.960 movies. And then everyone just got way more conservative 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.240 because it's huge. Like the business is so different 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.919 theatrically and streaming because to put out 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.100 a movie theatrically, you have to put so much 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:01.779 more money behind it to publicize. Like you're 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:03.159 trying to get everybody. You're basically spending 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.220 about what the budget was to make it to advertise 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:07.740 it. And you get 50 % of the theatrical. Yeah, 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:09.700 because you split it with the movie house, right? 00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:11.919 So a $25 million movie to break in, you've got 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:15.230 to make $100 million. And you've got to get everybody 00:09:15.230 --> 00:09:17.429 to not only know about the movie, but to show 00:09:17.429 --> 00:09:21.269 up that Friday night, that specific time for 00:09:21.269 --> 00:09:23.669 that specific movie, and to cut through all the 00:09:23.669 --> 00:09:27.129 noise that people are contending with. It just 00:09:27.129 --> 00:09:28.629 becomes about risk. Nobody wants to take the 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:29.809 risk, so they don't want to make something new 00:09:29.809 --> 00:09:31.529 because it's such an investment and we're going 00:09:31.529 --> 00:09:34.169 to lose all our fucking money. And the streamers 00:09:34.169 --> 00:09:36.690 have stepped into that. You don't have to necessarily 00:09:36.690 --> 00:09:38.509 have a star. You could try something more interesting 00:09:38.509 --> 00:09:40.570 or it didn't have to be a superhero movie, whatever 00:09:40.570 --> 00:09:44.399 it was. and also i think it's like you know frankly 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.740 like people my age like it's first of all it's 00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:49.259 expensive right you take your whole family it's 00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:51.440 100 you're on a streaming service 20 a month 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.759 you can watch all you want so you can't be cavalier 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:55.779 about like you're just gonna price it however 00:09:55.779 --> 00:09:58.379 the you want and expect everyone to like be indifferent 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:02.519 to that and then you know also you know, the 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:04.519 idea of, like, for me, you know, there's a lot 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.320 of stuff. I make that decision. Like, do I want 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.120 to see The Odyssey on a big screen? Fucking def. 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:10.980 I went to a theater to just watch the trailer 00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:13.100 for that movie. And, you know, at one battle 00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:14.620 after another, I wanted to go see in the theater. 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:16.259 But there's movies with people that I really 00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:18.519 like and respect where, yeah, and I got a good 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:20.600 system and shit, but I'm like, look, I'll watch 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:22.179 it and I might get tired or I won't pause it 00:10:22.179 --> 00:10:23.559 and take a piss or the kids, you know, whatever 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:27.019 it is. that's conducive to my lifestyle, you 00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:29.639 know? And so I even see a few. I think most people 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:31.860 are, yeah. But there is the experience of seeing 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:33.480 it with a bunch of other people and seeing an 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.179 awesome movie with a bunch of other people. It's 00:10:35.179 --> 00:10:36.740 like a shared experience. A hundred percent. 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.860 I always like an attention. Way more attention. 00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:42.860 Like when I went to see one battle on IMAX, like, 00:10:42.860 --> 00:10:44.960 you know, that feeling, there's nothing like 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.779 that feeling. I took, you know, two of my kids 00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:49.100 and two of my nephews and my wife and we all 00:10:49.100 --> 00:10:51.340 went and it was just, it was like, and you're 00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:54.539 in with. You know, a bunch of strangers, people 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:56.639 in your community, and you're having this experience 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:58.820 together. I always say it's more like going to 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:01.860 church. Like you show up at an appointed time. 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.799 You know what I mean? It doesn't wait for you. 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.399 Versus the experience of watching at home, I 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.820 think. You know, you're watching in a room. The 00:11:10.820 --> 00:11:12.960 lights are on. Other shit's going on. The kids 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.279 are running around. The dogs are running around. 00:11:14.379 --> 00:11:15.600 Whatever it is. You know what I mean? It's just 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.759 a very different level of attention that you're 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:20.809 willing to get. or that you're able to give to 00:11:20.809 --> 00:11:23.210 it. And that has a big effect. And it also ends 00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:24.929 up having an effect or is starting to have an 00:11:24.929 --> 00:11:28.350 effect on how you make movies. Like for instance, 00:11:28.509 --> 00:11:32.710 Netflix, you know, standard way to make an action 00:11:32.710 --> 00:11:35.289 movie that we learned was, you know, you usually 00:11:35.289 --> 00:11:37.409 have like three set pieces, one in the first 00:11:37.409 --> 00:11:39.210 act, one in the second, one in the third. And, 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:41.149 you know, you kind of, they kind of ramp up and 00:11:41.149 --> 00:11:42.929 the big one with all the explosions and you spend 00:11:42.929 --> 00:11:44.690 most of your money on that one in the third act. 00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:48.240 That's your kind of finale. And now they're like, 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.820 can we get a big one in the first five minutes 00:11:50.820 --> 00:11:53.519 to get somebody? We want people to stay tuned 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:58.519 in. And it wouldn't be terrible if you reiterated 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:00.539 the plot three or four times in the dialogue 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:02.820 because people are on their phones while they're 00:12:02.820 --> 00:12:05.279 watching. You know what I mean? And so then it's 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.659 going to really start to infringe on. Creatively. 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:09.860 Yeah, how we're telling the story. But then you 00:12:09.860 --> 00:12:11.460 look at adolescence, it didn't do any of that 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:12.659 shit. It didn't do any of that. And it was fucking 00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:14.220 great. You know what I mean? So I think it's 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:17.840 dark, too. It's tragic and intense. It's like 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.679 a guy who finds out these kids accused of murder, 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.639 and it's like, you know, and there's long shots 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.419 in the back of their head. They get in the car. 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.620 Nobody says anything. I think there are those, 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.340 look, these ideas. I wish that were there. It 00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:34.769 feels more like the exception. It's so. masterfully 00:12:34.769 --> 00:12:36.909 made that it feels a little more like the except 00:12:36.909 --> 00:12:39.350 I hope it's not my feeling is just that it demonstrates 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:41.210 that you don't need to do any of that shit to 00:12:41.210 --> 00:12:43.370 get people you know what I mean like and I think 00:12:43.370 --> 00:12:45.710 you know yes you know like look at the town at 00:12:45.710 --> 00:12:47.370 the action scene in the beginning the first five 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:49.409 minutes because you know what I mean like it's 00:12:49.409 --> 00:12:51.070 a it's a common trick that you would go like 00:12:51.070 --> 00:12:53.649 let me grab them and get them invested in it's 00:12:53.649 --> 00:12:55.450 like the movies that start with the hero hanging 00:12:55.450 --> 00:12:57.549 from the cliff and now we're gonna flash back 00:12:57.549 --> 00:12:59.370 to the beginning and tell you how they got there 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.299 It's, you know, I always feel like, you know, 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:04.899 complaining about it makes me feel like one of 00:13:04.899 --> 00:13:06.500 these guys was like, when I was a boy, like, 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:08.320 you always want to freeze the culture at the 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.820 time when you, I don't know, felt more like, 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:12.240 you know, we didn't used to have these phones. 00:13:12.379 --> 00:13:14.100 The fuck are all these phones? And everybody's 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.120 looking at their phone. I get it. Yes, it's true. 00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:18.940 Also, it's like supplying demand. People want 00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:20.220 to look at their phone. They can look at TikTok. 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:21.700 They want, you know, they're going to do that. 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.620 I think what you can do is make shit the best 00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:27.740 you can. Make it really good. And, you know. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:29.500 People can still go to the movies. It's not like, 00:13:29.539 --> 00:13:31.440 I think we have this idea that it's like an existential 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.200 threat. Everything that comes along is going 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.179 to destroy everything. Instead of like, what 00:13:36.179 --> 00:13:38.159 history suggests is that there's like marginal 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.559 encroachments, things shift. Yep, as television 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.960 came along, there was less theater going. That's 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:44.220 still going to happen. And people are still going 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:45.519 to go to the movies because of what you said. 00:13:45.620 --> 00:13:47.740 Like, it feels like a cool thing to do. I'm going 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.320 to go see The Odyssey. I guarantee you, in a 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.029 theater, you know, no matter what. Fewer of them. 00:13:53.250 --> 00:13:55.450 You could argue that's because I have more choice 00:13:55.450 --> 00:13:57.730 or whatever it is. It's hard to fight supply 00:13:57.730 --> 00:13:59.950 and demand. That's the trick. Right. If people 00:13:59.950 --> 00:14:01.889 want to watch a bunch of stuff at home because 00:14:01.889 --> 00:14:04.809 they invested in TVs and cost us money, they 00:14:04.809 --> 00:14:08.669 will. So, OK. But the upside of that is like 00:14:08.669 --> 00:14:11.169 I can try to do something. Hopefully that's like 00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:13.870 that actually doesn't need to, you know, have 00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:16.710 the most urgency to get you to come to the theater 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:18.730 with your family. That's a little more experimental 00:14:18.730 --> 00:14:21.000 or risk taking or whatever in that way. Well, 00:14:21.019 --> 00:14:22.840 you got to adapt. I mean, there's no way you're 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.580 going to change people's viewing habits now. 00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:27.080 I mean, what percentage of Netflix is actually 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:29.799 watched on phones? It's got to be pretty high, 00:14:29.899 --> 00:14:33.399 which is insane. Even watching on a laptop for 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.179 me is kind of like, kind of sucks. Yeah, it sucks. 00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:39.399 joke that i like to make with every director 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:41.320 i work with like when they're really puzzling 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.299 over a shot or really grinding out something 00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:45.120 i go you know it's not gonna look as good on 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:52.100 the phone just everyone gets angry no that's 00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:54.379 gonna look great this fucking bigs but keep fucking 00:14:54.379 --> 00:14:57.080 around and lighting that wall it is weird though 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.220 the the concern for the algorithm like making 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:01.460 sure that people watch like look we've got data 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:03.220 that shows within the first five minutes when 00:15:03.220 --> 00:15:05.620 this happens they tune out so let's like my buddy 00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:07.750 tony henchcliffe yeah he's got kill Tony and 00:15:07.750 --> 00:15:09.429 now it's on Netflix. And so they're giving them 00:15:09.429 --> 00:15:12.730 notes now and they can give him like, but they're 00:15:12.730 --> 00:15:13.789 not telling him what to do, but they're saying 00:15:13.789 --> 00:15:15.690 like, this is when people are tuning out. And 00:15:15.690 --> 00:15:18.090 so let's, you know, just so you have that data 00:15:18.090 --> 00:15:20.330 now decide how you want to edit things. That's 00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:26.730 like, Oh yeah. It is because, because the, it's 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:31.840 like the, the bar for, for walking out of a movie 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.120 theater is a lot higher than from just changing 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.860 the channel. Right. And oftentimes, you know, 00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:40.419 directors will want to make a movie that is challenging 00:15:40.419 --> 00:15:43.539 and upsetting. And I remember Terry Kinney, my 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.179 friend, great actor, and he told me about the 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.399 experience of seeing Taxi Driver in New York 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.500 for the first time, right, in 76 or whenever 00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:54.750 it came out. And he said... What I remember is 00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.190 not only the movie, but I remember standing at 00:15:57.190 --> 00:15:59.950 the back because I had got up. I got up out of 00:15:59.950 --> 00:16:01.950 my seat and I went, but I couldn't bring myself 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:04.629 to leave because I was so invested. He goes, 00:16:04.669 --> 00:16:06.690 I was standing at the back by the door watching 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:08.350 the movie. And he goes, and there were two other 00:16:08.350 --> 00:16:10.629 people standing next to me who were doing the 00:16:10.629 --> 00:16:12.470 same thing. Just because they were disturbed? 00:16:12.789 --> 00:16:14.690 Because the movie was disturbing them so much. 00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:17.009 Wow. Which is not a bad thing, right? Right. 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:20.129 So had that been on Netflix or Amazon, if somebody 00:16:20.129 --> 00:16:22.230 goes, oh, I'm disturbed, and they change the 00:16:22.230 --> 00:16:24.590 channel. Yeah. Like, that doesn't mean you shouldn't 00:16:24.590 --> 00:16:26.909 make Taxi Driver. Right, that's true. Like, the 00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:29.129 investment of going to a place is much greater. 00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:31.429 Yeah, and one of the values of that is that you 00:16:31.429 --> 00:16:33.610 could look at movies from the 70s and 80s, the 00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:35.809 first act was 25, 30 minutes. Right. You know, 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:37.450 The Verdict, for instance, is a great movie. 00:16:37.570 --> 00:16:39.230 It takes a long time to get going. Look at The 00:16:39.230 --> 00:16:41.210 Deer Hunter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's... 00:16:41.370 --> 00:16:43.009 And you're right. Like what you're saying, the 00:16:43.009 --> 00:16:45.549 threshold for walkout is real. Like any scene, 00:16:45.570 --> 00:16:47.429 like, ah, I want to watch Naked and Alone. You 00:16:47.429 --> 00:16:51.029 know, you flip the fucking. So you are battling 00:16:51.029 --> 00:16:55.019 that. I watched Le Mans the other night. steve 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:57.500 mcqueen and there's no one talks for like five 00:16:57.500 --> 00:16:59.620 minutes there's no talking it's just a bunch 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:01.519 of stuff getting done yeah just a bunch of people 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.119 doing things and it's like wow you could make 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:06.380 a difference you could let it air out back then 00:17:06.380 --> 00:17:09.200 yeah it was they had a different respect for 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:12.079 what it was like you were telling a story and 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:13.970 you're gonna let it air out Well, they also knew 00:17:13.970 --> 00:17:16.210 where their audience was. They were in a theater. 00:17:16.630 --> 00:17:18.269 Part of it was they wanted to come there. I mean, 00:17:18.289 --> 00:17:20.170 the great story I like is the first time they 00:17:20.170 --> 00:17:24.670 debuted a movie, guys with a projector in a room 00:17:24.670 --> 00:17:28.430 full of people. It was a movie of a train pulling 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:30.609 into the station. So they put the reel up, and 00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:32.150 they did the demonstration, and they showed the 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:33.970 people, and everybody missed it because they 00:17:33.970 --> 00:17:35.210 were turned around staring at the projector. 00:17:35.740 --> 00:17:37.700 They've never fucking seen anything like that. 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:40.440 You know, it's like the technology's upstaging. 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:42.680 But, like, you come for an event. Come for a 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:43.980 thing. We're all going to be here. That's part 00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:47.700 of it. It's, I don't know. There's competing 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.920 arguments. You can think, well, what do you get 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.220 to do? And some people just go ahead and fuck 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.359 it. Like, Jim Cameron's Avatar. I'm going to 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.259 make my three -hour movie, and people are going 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.960 to come. And great. You know what I mean? And 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.000 people say, oh, well, you can't have a three 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.319 -hour movie. He's like, well, I'm Jim Cameron, 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:02.059 and I've actually got the number one and two 00:18:02.059 --> 00:18:04.980 in movies. I think I got this. He goes ahead 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:08.019 and does it. History is full of people who got 00:18:08.019 --> 00:18:09.400 told a bunch of conventional wisdom and were 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.160 like, yeah, but we're going to do something different. 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:14.660 And as it turns out, that's actually what people 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:16.480 want, too, is not for you to just repeat the 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.339 other shit that's been done before or worked 00:18:18.339 --> 00:18:21.059 before. This episode is brought to you by Visible. 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.400 Have you heard of Visible? It's the one -line 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.619 wireless with unlimited data and hotspot for 00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:33.720 $25 a month. Taxes and fees included all on Verizon's 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.400 5G network. It's the ultimate wireless hack to 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:39.039 save money and still get great coverage and a 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.900 reliable connection. Got a resolution to save? 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.680 Kick 2026 off right now for a limited time. New 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.500 members can get the Visible plan for just $19 00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:52.220 a month for the first 26 months. Ring in the 00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:55.960 new year with code SWITCH26. Share the savings 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.839 with a deal that's too good to keep quiet. Switch 00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:03.599 now at visible .com. Terms apply. Limited time 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.420 offer. Subject to change. See visible .com for 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.819 plan features and network management details. 00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:12.150 One of the things I read that I thought was really 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:14.890 fucking cool is you guys set it up so that if 00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:19.130 this film performs well, the entire crew gets 00:19:19.130 --> 00:19:23.349 bonuses. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Hopefully 00:19:23.349 --> 00:19:26.289 it's successful. I think it's going to shit. 00:19:26.829 --> 00:19:29.109 It's a fucking great movie, man. It's a fun movie. 00:19:29.329 --> 00:19:32.609 But it's good, but it's not like, you know, fucking 00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:34.490 we're saints or philanthropists. Like, it's completely 00:19:34.490 --> 00:19:37.049 self -serving, in my opinion, because in order 00:19:37.049 --> 00:19:40.009 to do the job well. Everybody who's working on 00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:42.029 it has to be really invested and give a shit 00:19:42.029 --> 00:19:44.690 about the result, not their paycheck only. And 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:46.250 sometimes you're with a crew that just happen 00:19:46.250 --> 00:19:48.769 to be great anyway, even though they don't really 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:51.009 have to care about it, and they do. And what 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:53.430 we saw was, like, that makes your movie better. 00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:55.369 And then there's just the thing of, like, the 00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:57.509 business is changing. You see these strikes and 00:19:57.509 --> 00:19:59.769 work stops and all these fucking questions. In 00:19:59.769 --> 00:20:03.269 order for this, I think, to survive and to be, 00:20:03.269 --> 00:20:06.390 you know, a good middle -class fucking artist. 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.200 you know, artisanal craftsman job. We've got 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.759 1 ,200 people that, you know, need to have reliable 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:16.039 jobs. And part of the negotiations is always 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:18.059 like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we're all going to 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:19.819 get fucked. Like, we have no participation. Like, 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:21.539 we used to work on movies, and it happens to 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:24.200 actors too, where you go, oh, we all invested, 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.900 it was really hard, and we fucking put in the 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:28.539 extra effort. Somebody else walked away. with 00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:31.880 all the success. And, you know, my theory was 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.839 with Matt was we were like, how about where let's 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:36.619 say, okay, it's just fairness, right? If this 00:20:36.619 --> 00:20:38.599 thing actually blows up and does really well. 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.640 You should benefit from that. People have been 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.480 kind of given sort of promises of participation 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.420 back and haven't come true. This is like everyone 00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:49.559 got their rates. Everyone got their hourly. No 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.039 one cut anything. This is just an exercise in 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.500 actually proving that it's not bullshit, that 00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:56.980 if there's success, you'll get some extra. A 00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:58.640 little success, a little extra. A little more, 00:20:58.779 --> 00:21:00.539 a little more. But also, like you said, because 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:04.279 it's fair. It's fair. And in success, the people 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.250 who made the movie should. you know, should participate 00:21:07.250 --> 00:21:10.410 in that. And also with this one, which was important 00:21:10.410 --> 00:21:12.789 to us, you know, they delineate above the line 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:14.509 and below the line, right? Like above the line 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:16.829 being like us, the director and the producers. 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:20.329 And below the line being kind of the more blue 00:21:20.329 --> 00:21:23.450 -collar side of our industry. Like painters, 00:21:23.630 --> 00:21:25.789 grainsmen, camera people, everybody else, the 00:21:25.789 --> 00:21:29.190 drivers. And so we just wanted, and believed, 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:31.150 like when we started this company, we were like, 00:21:31.250 --> 00:21:33.769 look, you know, we know who makes our movie better. 00:21:34.349 --> 00:21:36.809 Right. It's not it's it's like they've this has 00:21:36.809 --> 00:21:38.829 kind of been mispriced the whole time. Like the 00:21:38.829 --> 00:21:40.990 economics have been wrong. Like when there's 00:21:40.990 --> 00:21:43.109 a when there's a big success, everybody who had 00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:45.289 a hand on it. Because you see a great director 00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:47.269 that people rely on or an actor that's considered 00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:49.349 bankable. They're all going, OK, I need all my 00:21:49.349 --> 00:21:51.470 people. Yeah. Every great director I've worked 00:21:51.470 --> 00:21:52.769 with and I've worked with a lot of them. They 00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:55.509 have their regular crew members. Right. They 00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:58.289 that ride or die with these. Right. Because I 00:21:58.289 --> 00:21:59.849 mean, and you said it to me when we were starting 00:21:59.849 --> 00:22:02.140 the company, you were like. You know, those department 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:04.700 heads, you know, who are each handling like, 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.319 you know, cinematography, you know, your camera 00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:07.980 department, you know, your grip department, your 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.180 electric, like all these this those people are. 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:14.319 ultimately the people who make the movie good. 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:16.700 Like, they make a demonstrable difference in 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:18.319 how good your movie is. And imagine once you 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.900 get a good flow with a great crew, like, you 00:22:20.900 --> 00:22:22.900 got the band. Like, there's no need to bring 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:25.200 in new band members. Let's do this again. And 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.000 then, like, you have the situation where they 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.400 all are filmmakers, too. Everybody knows what 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:32.819 we're trying to do. So, like, then what makes 00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:34.500 it, you know, you're trying to get something 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:36.279 special, something interesting, something fucking 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.000 magical in some moment. You have to, like, if 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.619 people are tight or if they've been out of shape 00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:42.980 or, you know, it fucks up the environment. People 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:44.779 aren't relaxed. Actors can't do their best work. 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.240 And that does make a difference between something 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:50.700 that's good, average, great, whatever. And I 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:53.680 think that if you say, like, you know, it makes 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:55.559 cognitive sense to people. But if you look around, 00:22:55.660 --> 00:22:57.779 like, what's an example? Colin Anderson, camera 00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:00.039 operator, right? Not the cinematographer. But 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:01.900 I would tell you, I think he's the greatest camera 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:03.700 operator there is in Hollywood. And if you want 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:05.859 evidence of that, he shot Marty Supreme. He was 00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:07.640 a camera operator in one battle after another. 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.539 You look at his resume, and you're like, oh, 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:12.859 that's interesting. These are all fucking great 00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:15.079 movies. Now, is he personally responsible for 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:16.799 all of it? No, because it's a collaborative medium. 00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:19.140 There is no, like, you can be a painter and paint 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:20.759 by yourself. You can be a novelist and do that, 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:24.430 sing, write music. You can't do this job alone. 00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:26.569 Like, there are a lot of people that go into 00:23:26.569 --> 00:23:28.730 it. You know, even when I realized, like, Matt 00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:30.910 was the lead in the last movie I did air that 00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:34.950 I directed. Having somebody so fucking good in 00:23:34.950 --> 00:23:38.549 your movie who also shows up, does his job, is 00:23:38.549 --> 00:23:40.849 friendly, isn't fucking around or playing games 00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:43.849 or being weird, like, that sets this tone. Everybody 00:23:43.849 --> 00:23:47.029 else kind of goes, okay, but what's Damon like? 00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:50.119 Oh. We're taking this seriously, but nobody's 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:51.539 going to be a dick. We're all going to do our 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.819 job. We're not going to take ourselves too seriously, 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:55.220 but we're going to take the job really seriously. 00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.279 And immediately, everybody kind of snaps into 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.039 that. That trickle -down effect goes across the 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:03.880 whole thing. And I think the best thing that 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:05.720 I know how to do as a director is just create 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.539 an environment where people feel like they show 00:24:08.539 --> 00:24:10.940 up. People like me. They're rooting for me. I 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:13.279 can fucking embarrass myself and be bad, and 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:14.640 it's not going to be in the movie, and it's going 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.880 to make me feel self -conscious. I'm listened 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.359 to. My ideas are listened to. Yeah, and if I 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:19.859 have something to offer, they're going to go, 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:21.359 oh, that's a good idea. You know what I mean? 00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:25.039 And that's kind of the trick, in my view. And 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:26.720 then you're depending on the gifts of all these 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.240 people, every single one of them. You know, some 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.930 woman's assistant. A prop master is coming up 00:24:32.930 --> 00:24:35.029 with like the stuff that, you know, Phil Knight 00:24:35.029 --> 00:24:37.190 found, you know, his waffle from the shoe. They 00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:39.210 found it on eBay. Like that's an extra mile. 00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:41.109 You know what I mean? Yeah. If you make people 00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:43.109 feel like it matters and you give a shit and 00:24:43.109 --> 00:24:45.109 that they're contributing and, oh, cool, let's 00:24:45.109 --> 00:24:46.690 do a close up of that. That's really fucking 00:24:46.690 --> 00:24:49.470 cool. They'll die for you. They'll go all the 00:24:49.470 --> 00:24:52.829 way. And it changes the whole. And if you bonus 00:24:52.829 --> 00:24:56.329 them, you know, it's not just all, you know, 00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:00.000 it's just there's an actual like codified. bonus 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.769 structure to say like This is the way of recognizing 00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:05.170 that shit, right? It's like in your paycheck, 00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:06.329 too. It's not just bullshit. That's very real. 00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:08.910 And you guys developed this? So this is something 00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:11.029 that you – kudos to you guys for addressing this, 00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:13.529 first of all, and recognizing it and having that 00:25:13.529 --> 00:25:15.650 attitude because it's so important and so easy 00:25:15.650 --> 00:25:18.349 for big movie stars to just think about themselves 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:19.410 and their own careers. Well, we're communists, 00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:25.630 Joe. We're from Cambridge. Keep the car running. 00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:31.390 No, but each deal has had this kind of – Each 00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:33.109 deal that we've done so far has been different 00:25:33.109 --> 00:25:36.109 because we've made deals with different studios 00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:38.069 and platforms and stuff like that. And it just 00:25:38.069 --> 00:25:40.529 involved us basically retroactively going, hey, 00:25:40.569 --> 00:25:43.089 we came in under, we did a great job, there's 00:25:43.089 --> 00:25:45.869 extra money, here you go. This is the first time 00:25:45.869 --> 00:25:48.930 that we were able to actually create a schedule 00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:51.309 where it's like, because, and by the way, we 00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:52.569 wouldn't have been able to do that without Netflix 00:25:52.569 --> 00:25:54.430 going, okay, cool. You think you can make this 00:25:54.430 --> 00:25:56.970 work? We'll give you a shot. Otherwise, we wouldn't 00:25:56.970 --> 00:25:58.549 have been able to do it. So we had to say, look, 00:25:58.690 --> 00:26:01.990 we're not asking you to take a cut. And we can 00:26:01.990 --> 00:26:04.609 tell you, if the movie is watched as many hours 00:26:04.609 --> 00:26:07.089 in the first 90 days as, like, this movie A, 00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:10.109 that you all know what it is, then that's, you 00:26:10.109 --> 00:26:12.150 know, 20 % of your salary, let's say, right? 00:26:12.250 --> 00:26:14.109 You should take a hit. So it's like, yeah, you 00:26:14.109 --> 00:26:15.869 make more money, your bonus is more. It's all 00:26:15.869 --> 00:26:17.970 just pegged to where you're at, just because 00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:19.809 that was the most fair idea we'd come up with. 00:26:19.910 --> 00:26:21.730 So they gave us, like, five different levels, 00:26:21.950 --> 00:26:25.390 right? first couple we hopefully we can hit and 00:26:25.390 --> 00:26:27.049 maybe the third maybe we get and then it got 00:26:27.049 --> 00:26:28.589 to like the fifth level it's kind of like single 00:26:28.589 --> 00:26:30.569 double triple home run home run fucking grand 00:26:30.569 --> 00:26:34.710 slam the fifth one was 110 % of all Netflix viewers 00:26:34.710 --> 00:26:36.609 or something like that so it's everybody who 00:26:36.609 --> 00:26:38.410 has a Netflix account watches it and then like 00:26:38.410 --> 00:26:40.630 10 % of them watch it again and we were like 00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:42.450 it's like K -pop demon this is the biggest K 00:26:42.450 --> 00:26:43.769 -pop demon but that's what happened we were laughing 00:26:43.769 --> 00:26:45.710 and then K -pop demon hunters came along and 00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:47.670 actually did that that's the first movie that's 00:26:47.670 --> 00:26:50.609 ever Jesus yeah well I think a lot of autistic 00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:52.880 kids watch that over and over I haven't seen 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:55.720 it, but I mean, somebody's watching it over and 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.319 over. Oh, yeah. Dude, people love it. I mean, 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.589 it's, you know. the value of it is that because 00:27:02.589 --> 00:27:04.230 before this, one of the big things and everybody's 00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:06.130 fighting over in the strike is like, well, share 00:27:06.130 --> 00:27:08.450 your, there used to be residuals, right? And 00:27:08.450 --> 00:27:10.529 residuals, and it was only for SAG and a few 00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:12.150 other things, but it was like, and you knew if 00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:14.069 you had a line in the movie and there'll be a 00:27:14.069 --> 00:27:16.049 certain number, like at the box office, well, 00:27:16.089 --> 00:27:19.029 you're going to get another 2000 bucks. And that 00:27:19.029 --> 00:27:20.930 was a big deal. You get that check in the mail 00:27:20.930 --> 00:27:22.190 and like, okay, I can pay the rent for another 00:27:22.190 --> 00:27:24.369 month and I can do that shit. But then it, then 00:27:24.369 --> 00:27:26.589 there was this like sort of ill, what constitutes 00:27:26.589 --> 00:27:29.130 success? Because streamer doesn't actually sell 00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:31.269 another ticket. if you watch that movie, right? 00:27:31.450 --> 00:27:33.230 And it's hard to tell, well, why did you sign 00:27:33.230 --> 00:27:35.910 up for this service, right? So for a while, everyone 00:27:35.910 --> 00:27:37.769 was looking at the first thing that you looked 00:27:37.769 --> 00:27:40.369 at when you subscribed to somebody. Okay, you're 00:27:40.369 --> 00:27:42.349 going to go buy Hulu? What did you watch first? 00:27:42.410 --> 00:27:45.150 The bear. Well, the bear must be creating value 00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:48.130 for us. But you can't assign a strict numerical 00:27:48.130 --> 00:27:50.950 value to it because it's like a box office where 00:27:50.950 --> 00:27:53.450 you can go, well, you know, Oppenheimer is a 00:27:53.450 --> 00:27:55.450 billion dollars or whatever, and, you know, that's 00:27:55.450 --> 00:27:57.529 another billion dollars on our balance sheet 00:27:57.529 --> 00:27:59.970 because streamers... doing a subscription model. 00:28:01.049 --> 00:28:03.730 Whether it's like a gym membership where in the 00:28:03.730 --> 00:28:05.329 fucking first of the year you're like, I'm going 00:28:05.329 --> 00:28:06.869 to work out again. I'm going to buy that annual 00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:09.549 membership and you go twice or you go to the 00:28:09.549 --> 00:28:10.849 gym every single day, you're paying the same 00:28:10.849 --> 00:28:13.190 amount. Also the weird thing is with streaming, 00:28:13.230 --> 00:28:15.549 when you're opening up Netflix, it's not like 00:28:15.549 --> 00:28:16.910 you're going to the movie theater and there's 00:28:16.910 --> 00:28:19.529 seven movies playing. You're opening up Netflix 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:23.829 and you have an unlimited option list. It's insane 00:28:23.829 --> 00:28:26.289 how much content. You could waste the rest of 00:28:26.289 --> 00:28:28.509 your life sitting in front of Netflix and then 00:28:28.509 --> 00:28:32.190 die and have millions of hours more to listen 00:28:32.190 --> 00:28:35.309 to or watch. You're right. When we started researching 00:28:35.309 --> 00:28:38.269 that and built our own data to pull people and 00:28:38.269 --> 00:28:41.660 examine all this stuff. It's actually all the 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:43.200 library stuff that people are watching all the 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.779 time. If you said, like, the new stuff is theoretically 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:48.720 what keeps people with the subscription or whatever, 00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:51.380 but in terms of, like, volume of time, I think, 00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:53.839 and it doesn't come from them, but it looks a 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.359 lot like, you know, we're going to watch, like, 00:28:56.420 --> 00:28:58.440 Orange is the New Black and the episode of Suits 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.019 and the old Seinfeld and Friends and, you know, 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.759 Cupcake Wars. You know, that's because Americans 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.900 watch six hours of TV a day, right? That's crazy. 00:29:09.050 --> 00:29:10.509 And then the other six hours they're on their 00:29:10.509 --> 00:29:12.890 phone. How does anything get done? How does anything 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:15.890 get done? When you started to make this film, 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:18.490 what is the process? How did you guys agree on 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:23.069 it? Did you guys have it written first? Joe Garneau 00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:25.410 wrote it. Before you knew you were going to Netflix 00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:27.769 with it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He came to us with 00:29:27.769 --> 00:29:29.490 the script, and we've known Joe for a really 00:29:29.490 --> 00:29:30.990 – he did a movie. His first movie was called 00:29:30.990 --> 00:29:32.869 Narc. I don't know if you ever saw it. It's terrific. 00:29:33.150 --> 00:29:34.670 Yeah, it's a great movie, yeah. So we met him 00:29:34.670 --> 00:29:37.869 way back this, 25 years ago. something like that. 00:29:37.950 --> 00:29:41.289 So we met him back then. And Ben did a movie 00:29:41.289 --> 00:29:44.529 of his in 2004, I think. So we've known Joe for 00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:46.369 a really long time and kind of been in touch 00:29:46.369 --> 00:29:48.289 with him over the years. And he just sent this 00:29:48.289 --> 00:29:50.769 to us. And we read it and we thought it was great 00:29:50.769 --> 00:29:55.470 and bought it for the company. And then we started 00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.890 talking to Joe about how he wanted to do it. 00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:01.670 And he suggested that we actually do the movie. 00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:04.690 And we were like, yeah, why don't we do it? It 00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:07.440 seems... Basically because we liked it. We liked 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.799 it, yeah. We're not trying to just do our movies. 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:12.700 We want to be, you know, doing movies with all 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:15.339 the people that we like and respect. And then, 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:17.180 you know, the way we sort of set it up is such 00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:21.500 that to try to get, like, historically the way 00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:23.500 it's worked is, like, you know, a studio will 00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:27.160 own an IP or a script or whatever, and they'll 00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.039 say, okay, we want you to do it. Okay, well, 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:30.700 how much did you get for the last one, right? 00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:32.519 And you go, well, what's the budget? And then 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.500 that's how they assign a value to it, right? 00:30:35.210 --> 00:30:37.970 But my belief was, well, especially when these 00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:40.069 streams are coming into the market and chasing 00:30:40.069 --> 00:30:42.970 stuff, this movie may be worth more. It may be 00:30:42.970 --> 00:30:46.329 worth less. And we're all just subject to that. 00:30:46.430 --> 00:30:48.670 So we'll try to get the best price for it. And 00:30:48.670 --> 00:30:51.789 we'll all share it pro rata. And essentially, 00:30:51.890 --> 00:30:53.569 that was the same process. We've done eight, 00:30:53.630 --> 00:30:57.329 I guess, movies or so now. We took it out and, 00:30:57.369 --> 00:30:59.349 you know, people wanted it. And then one of the 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:00.750 things that was really appealing about Netflix 00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:03.289 was that they were open to this idea that we've 00:31:03.289 --> 00:31:05.990 been trying to institutionalize. It was like, 00:31:06.029 --> 00:31:08.509 okay, great. That's really meaningful because 00:31:08.509 --> 00:31:10.769 ideally it becomes a template that other people 00:31:10.769 --> 00:31:12.369 go, hey, we want to do that thing, you know. 00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:13.970 And then go, oh, here's the paperwork. Yeah, 00:31:14.029 --> 00:31:15.650 that's the thing. Like a lot of people say that 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:19.470 they would want to do it, but now the template 00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:23.269 exists. So it's like plug and play. not full 00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:25.049 of shit and you really do mean that, then guess 00:31:25.049 --> 00:31:26.869 what? Just take this and don't do it. And it 00:31:26.869 --> 00:31:29.809 also is going to let you, you know, I hope, like, 00:31:29.869 --> 00:31:31.569 manage the risk. In other words, the argument 00:31:31.569 --> 00:31:32.849 you always have is like, well, shit, we've got 00:31:32.849 --> 00:31:34.950 to invest all this money in the movie so you 00:31:34.950 --> 00:31:37.890 can't have your protagonist be too objectionable, 00:31:37.930 --> 00:31:40.730 that's too edgy, or can't be R -rated because 00:31:40.730 --> 00:31:42.799 it costs this much. I get it, right? You're going 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:44.519 to put all your money into it. You don't want 00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.299 money to fucking disappear. You want to make 00:31:46.299 --> 00:31:49.279 money? Okay. So when we wrote the first movie, 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:51.519 Good Will Hunting, it was like we knew that had 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.279 to be a cheap movie. People talking in rooms 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.759 to each other because no one's going to put a 00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:56.380 bunch of money into a movie. Into a movie with 00:31:56.380 --> 00:31:58.539 us. Two assholes that no one heard of. So it 00:31:58.539 --> 00:32:00.440 was like, okay, what can we do that's interesting 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:03.720 and try to keep it as inexpensive as possible 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.319 so that we can make the argument that someone 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.710 should make the movie? That same logic carries 00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:09.549 through every time you're asking somebody to 00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:12.230 invest in something. So what I'd like to have 00:32:12.230 --> 00:32:15.190 happen is to say, okay, now that we know there's 00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:18.269 a reliable system where we understand that in 00:32:18.269 --> 00:32:21.390 success we'll actually benefit, we can lower. 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:24.180 you know, the price up front for you so that 00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:26.079 you can have a low fucking barrier to entry so 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:27.339 that you can take the risk so that we can do 00:32:27.339 --> 00:32:29.200 something really interesting. That's, that's 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.559 an original idea. That's a, you know, that's 00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:33.380 an ABN or a sinners or a fucking Marty Supreme 00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:36.900 or whatever it is. And, and then if it's successful, 00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.680 we're not all sitting here like assholes where, 00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:40.619 you know, you guys walk off with all the money, 00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:42.960 but, and you can have that happen in an ongoing 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.359 way so that you can make more interesting stuff. 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.559 A lot of the stuff that was going on with Strikes 00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:52.079 was centered around AI and what AI is going to 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.740 do to the business. Like where do you feel is 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:58.160 going to be like the biggest problem with AI? 00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:00.339 Is it going to be with people's likenesses? Because 00:33:00.339 --> 00:33:02.559 there's a lot of that where they want to use 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.859 extras and own their digital rights forever, 00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:07.460 essentially be able to recreate them in any kind 00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:09.900 of film. But then there's also you're going to 00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:13.190 have films that are written. by artificial intelligence. 00:33:13.509 --> 00:33:16.029 You're going to have scenes that don't involve 00:33:16.029 --> 00:33:20.309 people. And it gets weird, right? It gets really 00:33:20.309 --> 00:33:22.230 weird, but it's actually an area of expertise 00:33:22.230 --> 00:33:24.269 for him. Yeah, we've been spending time looking 00:33:24.269 --> 00:33:26.170 at this. My belief is sort of like, what's going 00:33:26.170 --> 00:33:28.609 to happen with electricity? Well, a lot of shit's 00:33:28.609 --> 00:33:29.990 going to happen with electricity. Some of it's 00:33:29.990 --> 00:33:31.309 going to be good. Some of it's going to change 00:33:31.309 --> 00:33:33.910 stuff. Some of it's going to be like, this is 00:33:33.910 --> 00:33:36.049 going to be shit that kills a bunch of people. 00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:39.960 It's opening a door that you can't... um you 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:42.059 know say well talk about in a kind of a blanket 00:33:42.059 --> 00:33:45.559 way but i think with what i see is that for example 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:49.000 if you try to get chat gbt or claude or gemini 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.119 to write you something it's really shitty And 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.859 it's shitty because by its nature, it goes to 00:33:54.859 --> 00:33:58.759 the mean, to the average. And it's not reliable. 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.039 And it's, I mean, I just can't even stand to 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:03.279 see what he writes. Now, it's a useful tool if 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.599 you're a writer and you're going, ah, what's 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:07.240 the thing? I'm trying to set something up where 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.320 somebody sends someone a letter, but it's delayed 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:11.400 two days and gets, and it can give you some examples 00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.460 of that. I actually don't think it's very likely. 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.159 that it's going to be able to write anything 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:20.340 meaningful, and in particular, that it's going 00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:22.800 to be making movies from whole cloth, like Tilly 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.380 Norwood. That's bullshit. I don't think that's 00:34:24.380 --> 00:34:27.360 going to happen. I think it actually turns out 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.280 the technology is not progressing in exactly 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.699 the same way they sort of presented it, and really 00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:34.880 what it is is going to be a tool. Just like sort 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.440 of visual facts. And yeah, it needs to have language 00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:38.980 around it. You need to protect your name and 00:34:38.980 --> 00:34:40.860 likeness. You can do that. You can watermark 00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:44.099 it. Those laws already exist. I can't sell your 00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:46.039 fucking picture for money. I can't. You can sue 00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:48.860 me, period. I might have the ability to draw 00:34:48.860 --> 00:34:51.480 you, to make you in a very realistic way. But 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.800 that's already against the law. And the unions 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:56.800 are going to, the guilds are going to manage 00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.670 this where it's like. Okay, look, if this is 00:34:59.670 --> 00:35:01.289 a tool that actually helps us, for example, we 00:35:01.289 --> 00:35:02.929 don't have to go to the North Pole, right? We 00:35:02.929 --> 00:35:05.989 can shoot the scene here in our parkas and whatever 00:35:05.989 --> 00:35:09.769 it is, but then make it appear very realistically 00:35:09.769 --> 00:35:11.769 as if we're in the North Pole. It'll save us 00:35:11.769 --> 00:35:13.250 a lot of money, a lot of time. We're going to 00:35:13.250 --> 00:35:15.389 focus on the performances and not be freezing 00:35:15.389 --> 00:35:17.489 our ass off out there and running back inside. 00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.280 That's useful, just like Spencer Tracy and Catherine 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.239 Hepburn used to be, like, driving their car and 00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:25.019 there's a wind blowing a painting behind them. 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.519 It looked goofy. Now, you know, people use a 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.659 lot of computer -generated stuff. And some of 00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:32.619 it is going to replace just that. Like, instead 00:35:32.619 --> 00:35:35.480 of 500 guys in Singapore, you know, making $2 00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:39.559 an hour to render all the graphics for a superhero 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:41.679 movie, there's going to be able to do that a 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:44.239 lot easier. There's already laws around and guild 00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:45.860 guidelines around, like, how many union extras 00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:49.050 you have to use. But also, we've been tiling 00:35:49.050 --> 00:35:51.610 extras. Like, there weren't a million orcs in 00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:53.329 Middle Earth. You know what I mean? There weren't 00:35:53.329 --> 00:35:55.050 Invictus. There weren't all those people in the 00:35:55.050 --> 00:35:56.989 stadium. Like, that's something we've been doing. 00:35:57.329 --> 00:35:59.570 It kind of feels to me like the thing we were 00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:01.070 talking about earlier, where there's a lot more 00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:03.610 fear because we have the sense that's existential 00:36:03.610 --> 00:36:05.849 dread. It's going to wipe everything out. But 00:36:05.849 --> 00:36:08.769 that actually runs counter, in my view, to what... 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.360 history seems to show, which is, A, adoption 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:15.599 is slow. It's incremental. I think a lot of that 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.019 rhetoric comes from people who are trying to 00:36:18.019 --> 00:36:21.199 justify valuations around companies where they 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.659 go, we're going to change everything. In two 00:36:22.659 --> 00:36:24.260 years, there's going to be no more work. Well, 00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:25.820 the reason they're saying that is because they 00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:29.280 need to ascribe a valuation for investment that 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.079 can warrant the capex spend they're going to 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:32.699 make on these data centers with the argument 00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:35.579 that, like, oh, you know, as soon as we do the 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.360 next model, it's going to scale up and be three 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.389 times as good. except that actually ChatGPT -5, 00:36:40.510 --> 00:36:45.030 about 25 % better than ChatGPT -4, and costs 00:36:45.030 --> 00:36:47.469 about four times as much in the way of electricity 00:36:47.469 --> 00:36:50.630 and data. So those nice things, it's like plateauing. 00:36:50.769 --> 00:36:54.630 The early AI, the line went up very steeply, 00:36:54.630 --> 00:36:56.949 and it's now sort of leveling off. I think it's 00:36:56.949 --> 00:36:59.449 because, and yes, it'll get better, but it's 00:36:59.449 --> 00:37:01.829 going to be really expensive to get better. And 00:37:01.829 --> 00:37:03.429 a lot of people were like, fuck this, we want 00:37:03.429 --> 00:37:05.969 ChatGPT -4, because it turned out like the vast 00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:08.980 majority of people. who use AI are using it as 00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:12.860 companion bots to chat with at night. And so 00:37:12.860 --> 00:37:14.780 there's no work, there's no productivity, there's 00:37:14.780 --> 00:37:17.579 no value to it. I would argue there's also not 00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:21.280 a lot of social value to getting people to focus 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.539 on an AI friend who's telling you that you're 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:26.139 great and listening to everything you say and 00:37:26.139 --> 00:37:29.579 being sycophantic. That's sort of a side issue. 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.360 I think for this particular purpose, the way 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:34.340 I see the technology and what it's good at and 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:36.559 what it's not, it's going to be good at... filling 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.800 in all the places that are expensive and burdensome 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.260 and they make it harder to do it. And it's always 00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:43.840 going to rely fundamentally on the human artistic. 00:37:44.449 --> 00:37:47.309 Aspects of it. Well, I think the more it becomes 00:37:47.309 --> 00:37:49.730 ubiquitous the more people are gonna appreciate 00:37:49.730 --> 00:37:52.750 real things that are made by real people You 00:37:52.750 --> 00:37:55.010 know like you're you still appreciate a handmade 00:37:55.010 --> 00:37:57.829 table, you know, you're gonna appreciate like 00:37:57.829 --> 00:38:01.329 did you see? The Beast in Me Claire Danes. Yeah. 00:38:01.429 --> 00:38:03.769 No, I thought yeah, I heard it was great that 00:38:03.769 --> 00:38:07.409 lady. Whoo. That's terrific Whoo when she's in 00:38:07.409 --> 00:38:10.090 a scene you're just like Jesus Christ great great 00:38:10.090 --> 00:38:12.050 like you like her fucking lips are quivering 00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:14.030 like you believe everything that she saying. 00:38:14.130 --> 00:38:16.070 But you're right. People want that. You can't 00:38:16.070 --> 00:38:22.070 fake that. I did this interview with Dwayne Johnson 00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:24.889 because when people are in these awards things, 00:38:25.070 --> 00:38:26.989 they sometimes have other actors interview them. 00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:30.530 I did this interview with Dwayne and I asked 00:38:30.530 --> 00:38:32.170 him, there's this scene in The Smashing Machine 00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:35.630 where he's overdosed on drugs and his buddy comes 00:38:35.630 --> 00:38:39.329 to see him in the hospital. And it really... 00:38:40.149 --> 00:38:41.969 walloped me this scene. I thought it was so great. 00:38:42.130 --> 00:38:44.190 And I asked him, and I was just like, can you 00:38:44.190 --> 00:38:46.909 just tell me about this scene? Did Benny Safdie 00:38:46.909 --> 00:38:49.530 direct it? Did Benny write that? Did you work 00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:51.889 on that scene with him? He goes, no, we actually 00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:53.690 worked on it together. And I go, well, how did 00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:56.250 that scene come to be? And Dwayne goes, well, 00:38:56.289 --> 00:38:58.530 my father was an alcoholic. And I don't remember 00:38:58.530 --> 00:39:00.329 if he said substance abuser or alcoholic, but 00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:02.489 I didn't know the man. I don't want to impugn 00:39:02.489 --> 00:39:04.610 him. But he had a substance issue, whatever it 00:39:04.610 --> 00:39:08.980 was. He goes, and when he would talk to me, You 00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:12.420 know, that's how he would defend himself. It 00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:13.980 was almost a bargaining thing, because there's 00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:16.480 this thing when this guy comes to him, he's overdosed, 00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:19.179 and Dwayne's amazing in this scene. He's going 00:39:19.179 --> 00:39:21.539 like, yeah, isn't it crazy? And then I woke up 00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:22.579 and thought, I mean, I could hear him, but I 00:39:22.579 --> 00:39:24.260 couldn't really hear him. And you see him, and 00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:26.579 he's kind of tap dancing, and his friend finally 00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:29.619 kind of holds his feet to the fire. And at that 00:39:29.619 --> 00:39:33.880 moment, Dwayne literally starts to burst into 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:36.639 tears and just pulls the hospital sheet up over 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.860 his head. And it's like and it's and it's I mean, 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.780 it's just it was I'm not doing it justice if 00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:46.179 you haven't. I mean, I know you've seen it. But 00:39:46.179 --> 00:39:50.599 he said, yeah. So he explains that about his 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.800 father. And then he goes. And and when my mom 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.900 was diagnosed with stage three lung cancer, I 00:39:55.900 --> 00:39:57.659 was with her when the oncologist came in and 00:39:57.659 --> 00:40:00.159 she was lying in the hospital bed. And when he 00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:02.559 gave her the news, she pulled the sheet up over 00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.099 her head. And I looked at her and she just looked 00:40:06.099 --> 00:40:09.239 like a little like a little kid. And I was like, 00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:15.460 all right. So that is two traumatic events from 00:40:15.460 --> 00:40:19.719 this guy's life, from his life experience. And 00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:24.940 the actor in him sees this scene, goes into his 00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.559 memory, pulls these two things out, understands 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.559 that they're appropriate for this scene and he 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.659 can marry them together in the scene. And then 00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:37.349 he goes and performs it that way. A dude walking 00:40:37.349 --> 00:40:41.110 in off the road, goes to the movies, sees this, 00:40:41.250 --> 00:40:45.929 understands somehow that it's fucking real. I 00:40:45.929 --> 00:40:48.510 didn't know why. That's why I wanted to ask him, 00:40:48.550 --> 00:40:50.570 how did that scene come to be? I genuinely didn't 00:40:50.570 --> 00:40:57.309 know. And made me tear up, you know. Like, that 00:40:57.309 --> 00:41:00.500 is... There's no fucking AI that can do that. 00:41:00.579 --> 00:41:03.179 No. It's a whole lot more than photorealistic 00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:07.639 images. Yeah. You could have an AI understand 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:09.840 Dwayne's face and move his face into different. 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.420 No fucking thing could ever do that. The complications 00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:15.679 of real life experiences relayed. That is a completely 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:18.579 human. That is an artist. That's a piece of art. 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.079 Yes. That comes out of a lived human experience. 00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:23.480 That movie gave me so much anxiety. There's moments 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.699 where Emily Blunt is arguing with him. She's 00:41:25.699 --> 00:41:29.900 so good. I really said, I was like, I think that's 00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:31.739 the best she's ever been. You know, we live in 00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:33.239 the same building in New York. She's like a very 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:36.519 dear friend of mine. And I was like, I really 00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:38.019 think that's the best she's ever been. And then 00:41:38.019 --> 00:41:41.280 I blurted that out to Chris Nolan, and he kind 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:43.630 of stopped and looked at me like. He didn't say 00:41:43.630 --> 00:41:44.929 it, but he was kind of like, she's pretty fucking 00:41:44.929 --> 00:41:48.489 good in my movie, too. Well, she's great, period. 00:41:48.690 --> 00:41:50.210 She's great, period. She's great, period. But 00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.849 there's something about that. Well, I knew Mark. 00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:56.210 I knew Mark from I met Mark in 97 when he was 00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:59.010 fighting in the UFC. So I knew the whole journey 00:41:59.010 --> 00:42:02.050 of him. And I was so happy for Dwayne because 00:42:02.050 --> 00:42:04.929 it was a film where instead of being this fucking 00:42:04.929 --> 00:42:08.889 superhero blockbuster Hulk of a man, he gets 00:42:08.889 --> 00:42:13.519 to be that but be. A great actor. And, you know, 00:42:13.539 --> 00:42:17.659 you can't really get a person to look like that, 00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:24.420 to express emotions. And he was Mark Kerr. I 00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:26.860 know. If you know Mark, I mean, it was fucking 00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:29.199 great acting. I completely forgot it was him. 00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:31.079 And somebody who had seen it before told me that 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:33.079 was going to happen. And I was like, all right, 00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:36.480 we'll see. And it was like from the second it 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:38.079 started. It didn't get the credit it deserved 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:39.760 in terms of like the amount of people that went 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.199 to see it. But I think overall in time, people 00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:44.260 appreciate it. That's what people go back to 00:42:44.260 --> 00:42:47.280 and talk about. Because it's a movie about MMA. 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:49.219 So a lot of people are like, I don't want to 00:42:49.219 --> 00:42:51.019 see a movie about a bunch of fucking meatheads. 00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:53.940 But it's not. It's just a movie that happens 00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:58.300 to be around MMA. But it's a great movie. The 00:42:58.300 --> 00:43:02.420 scenes are fucking fantastic. The acting is so 00:43:02.420 --> 00:43:06.710 good. And even the fight scenes, they're so realistic, 00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:10.489 man. It's really like they, I saw all those fights. 00:43:10.670 --> 00:43:13.250 They've recreated those fights about as good 00:43:13.250 --> 00:43:16.469 as you can get. And just his crazy struggle. 00:43:16.809 --> 00:43:18.969 And you know the story behind the documentary, 00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:22.119 The Smashing Machine? No. So the smashing machine 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:24.559 was made when Mark was at the height of his powers 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.019 and pride. And he was the most terrifying guy 00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:30.440 in the world. He was 265 pounds of solid muscle 00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.539 just blowing through people. Didn't even look 00:43:32.539 --> 00:43:34.360 like a human being. Everyone was terrified of 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.420 him. No one knew he was a drug addict. No one 00:43:37.420 --> 00:43:40.480 knew. And he spiraled out as they were filming, 00:43:40.579 --> 00:43:43.860 and he let them film him. Let them film him shooting 00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:46.840 up. Let them film him, like, bringing this giant 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.159 bag of pills with him and all this shit everywhere 00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:52.579 and just completely falling apart while they 00:43:52.579 --> 00:43:55.340 were supposed to be capturing this hero movie 00:43:55.340 --> 00:43:58.260 of the greatest fighter in the world. He's falling 00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.599 apart, like, live in front of the documentary. 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:04.159 It was a fucking amazing documentary. I got to 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.300 see it. It's really good. But I was so happy 00:44:07.300 --> 00:44:09.619 that they put it in a film. And I was so happy 00:44:09.619 --> 00:44:12.320 that it gave Dwayne a vehicle to show what he's 00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:14.659 really capable of. Because he's so limited by 00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:17.360 a lot of just the parameters of the roles that 00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:21.219 he was in. Yeah. And by like galactic success. 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:27.739 Yes. Right. He had to and will continue to have 00:44:27.739 --> 00:44:32.099 to push. For that, right? Because it's what he 00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:36.039 wants. Yeah. And not because what they're going 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.900 to continue to want him to do is, you know, the 00:44:38.900 --> 00:44:42.460 thing that mints them money. Yeah. But I suspect 00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:45.699 that his experience and feeling about this movie. 00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:47.820 From the conversations I've had with him, yeah, 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:53.179 this has changed him. Well, I mean, it's like 00:44:53.179 --> 00:44:55.639 this thing that these superhero guys have to 00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:59.000 do where it's like something has to change because 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:02.210 otherwise you're going to be. And with a guy 00:45:02.210 --> 00:45:04.630 that looks like that, it's so easy to put him 00:45:04.630 --> 00:45:07.409 in that box. And so you see him now, he's thinner, 00:45:07.530 --> 00:45:09.329 he's lost a lot of weight. Dave Bautista went 00:45:09.329 --> 00:45:11.429 through a very similar thing too, right? He wanted 00:45:11.429 --> 00:45:15.030 to have more range, wanted to have more opportunities 00:45:15.030 --> 00:45:17.269 to do exciting and different challenging things. 00:45:17.590 --> 00:45:19.750 Well, I think also coming from where he came 00:45:19.750 --> 00:45:22.070 from, right? It's like you talk about going from 00:45:22.070 --> 00:45:24.469 TV to movies in the old days. Try coming from 00:45:24.469 --> 00:45:28.289 wrestling to the biggest movie star in the world, 00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:32.699 right? It's incredible that he did that and now 00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:35.340 he's in this place where he's got this leverage 00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:38.440 as because he's so beloved and you know that 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:40.679 that he can kind of tailor the tailor what he 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:42.820 wants from from here on out it's hard to bring 00:45:42.820 --> 00:45:44.880 the audience with you right no no i know you 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:47.420 like this thing but let me let me show you something 00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:49.380 else you know it's sort of like you go to the 00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:51.400 concert the band wants to play the new songs 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.599 No, I love the song, too. You know my acoustic 00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:06.679 thing that I did? Yeah, I went to see the Stones 00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:08.860 when they were here in town, and there was a 00:46:08.860 --> 00:46:10.579 few songs they played that were, like, new songs. 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:12.059 Oh, really? You could see the audience was like, 00:46:12.139 --> 00:46:15.059 okay, okay. Go get a beer. Get the other one. 00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:18.440 Yeah, that's what, I mean, but, you know, every 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:20.699 artist, I guess, has to make that choice, and 00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:23.840 he's made it. And it was an amazing vehicle, 00:46:24.019 --> 00:46:27.619 too, because he still kept that superhuman, hulkish 00:46:27.619 --> 00:46:31.449 frame, but also. show like god there's like amazing 00:46:31.449 --> 00:46:34.369 depth there yeah yeah yeah and that's the thing 00:46:34.369 --> 00:46:37.309 that's i think especially because it's a it's 00:46:37.309 --> 00:46:39.989 collaborative it happens to other people that's 00:46:39.989 --> 00:46:42.409 what movies do that other shit doesn't do it's 00:46:42.409 --> 00:46:44.869 just just create like you feel for people it's 00:46:44.869 --> 00:46:47.070 empathy it's all made up right that's not him 00:46:47.070 --> 00:46:49.889 it's all it's all an illusion all bullshit but 00:46:49.889 --> 00:46:52.309 if you do it really well it's like you know somebody 00:46:52.309 --> 00:46:54.369 that seems to really be feeling something like 00:46:54.369 --> 00:46:56.940 all of a sudden i think what it does it touches 00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:59.320 like these things in ourselves you know it has 00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:01.219 that same effect that dwayne went through of 00:47:01.219 --> 00:47:04.619 articulate to you about like these moments that 00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:08.539 were kind of burned into his memory then really 00:47:08.539 --> 00:47:10.739 the best movies are kind of almost blank screens 00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:14.659 that we project our own like oh yeah i my father 00:47:14.659 --> 00:47:17.099 died or i went through this with my kid or i'm 00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:21.960 i feel alone and and and miserable and and here's 00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:23.840 this like hopeful moment that someone has to 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:26.460 go maybe i can and maybe i can do something you 00:47:26.460 --> 00:47:27.960 know they inspire you they touch you they move 00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:30.519 you and like the thing to go for the other thing 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:34.519 is you know It's to tell the lighter story, to 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:36.420 go through the more typical sort of tropes of 00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.019 it all. Either way, you're in somebody else's 00:47:39.019 --> 00:47:41.179 perspective for a few hours. Yeah. And hopefully 00:47:41.179 --> 00:47:43.599 it breeds compassion. Well, when it's done right, 00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.119 there's a magic to it where you forget that it's 00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:48.460 happening and you're there. And the most amazing 00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:51.420 trick is when it's done by famous people. You 00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:52.840 know, I was talking to Ethan Hawke about this. 00:47:53.059 --> 00:47:56.059 There's a scene with him and Kevin Bacon in that 00:47:56.059 --> 00:47:57.940 movie with Julia Roberts about the end of the 00:47:57.940 --> 00:47:59.119 world. I forget the name of it. Right, right, 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:03.079 right. Tomorrow. Yeah. Tomorrow something. People 00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:05.019 will find it. But it's a great fucking movie. 00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:07.900 But there's this scene where he's trying to get, 00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:10.380 he's talking to Kevin Bacon. Kevin Bacon's got 00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:13.719 a gun to him. And it's so, fuck, I know that's 00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.280 Kevin Bacon. I know that's Ethan Hawke. It doesn't 00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.199 matter. Like, you're fucking locked in. You're 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.739 locked in. You're like, oh, shit. Like, that's 00:48:21.739 --> 00:48:25.599 the magic. And he was like, but I'm locked in 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.880 too. Like, that's. It's like a hypnosis. It's 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:33.320 like everybody is in the scene in a very bizarre 00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:36.840 way. Like you have the lines, but you're living 00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:40.159 it. And that's either done or it's not done. 00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:42.800 And when it's not done. You could tell someone's 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:44.760 kind of just performative. You feel it when you're 00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.719 watching. Yes. If it does that thing and it pulls 00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:49.739 you in, then it's happening. That's the magic 00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:51.880 of film. And sometimes you trick people, I guess, 00:48:51.940 --> 00:48:53.579 but for the most part... For the most part, you 00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:56.360 don't. If you're feeling it and it's really happening, 00:48:56.599 --> 00:48:59.539 it's much more like... Other human beings recognize 00:48:59.539 --> 00:49:03.159 human beings experiencing real shit. Yes. They 00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:04.880 really do. It's like these mirror neurons. Like, 00:49:04.940 --> 00:49:08.340 I know what sorrow looks like without having 00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:10.139 to fucking... I can't break it down for you or 00:49:10.139 --> 00:49:11.909 I even... You know, you... We all know kind of 00:49:11.909 --> 00:49:14.769 what, like, oh, he's a little anxious right now. 00:49:14.809 --> 00:49:17.150 Or did I maybe offend him? Or, you know, all 00:49:17.150 --> 00:49:19.369 these little things. And when some, like, in 00:49:19.369 --> 00:49:22.769 the rare moments when these big feelings or things 00:49:22.769 --> 00:49:27.079 happen. You feel it, too, you know, and you usually 00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:29.480 like an example is this old saying about like, 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:31.960 you know, actors try to cry. People try not to 00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:33.900 cry. Like because when you're really experiencing 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:35.320 that shit, you don't want people to see it. You 00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:37.340 want to hide it. You want to know. I'm OK. I'm 00:49:37.340 --> 00:49:38.739 fine. You know, it's like I want to pull the 00:49:38.739 --> 00:49:41.780 sheet up. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing that's 00:49:41.780 --> 00:49:44.019 really interesting from from our side of doing 00:49:44.019 --> 00:49:45.920 it, because he and I have talked about this a 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:49.380 lot is and I've always said publicly, like great 00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:51.940 actors are good enough for both of you. Like 00:49:51.940 --> 00:49:55.000 when you're in a scene with a great actor, that 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.059 thing that Ethan's talking about, that hypnosis 00:49:57.059 --> 00:49:58.800 or whatever you want to call it, that energy, 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:01.360 that place where you go, right? They're bringing 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:03.239 you right with it. It's like a fucking tractor 00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:05.539 beam. They will suck you right in with them. 00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:07.980 And like as quickly as you look into their eyes 00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:10.340 and you're like, you're like just there. And 00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:14.340 it's like riding the easiest wave you've ever 00:50:14.340 --> 00:50:16.980 ridden in your life. You know, it can be the 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:18.780 hardest thing in the world and it can be the 00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.559 easiest thing in the world. When you're with 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:23.659 a great actor, it's just, if the scene's a good 00:50:23.659 --> 00:50:25.440 scene. Yeah, this is a real paradox. All the 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:27.760 stuff that I'm the most proud of, the weird thing 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:29.980 about it is it felt very easy at the time. And 00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:31.239 the shit where you're banging your head against 00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:32.380 the wall and trying to get blood from a stone 00:50:32.380 --> 00:50:33.780 and killing yourself and the whole thing, and 00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:36.780 it just ends up fucking feeling empty. And the 00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:38.440 thing about the stuff that I'm proud of is my 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:41.110 insecurity is like, shh. It should be harder 00:50:41.110 --> 00:50:43.429 than this, right? Are we like, we work hard enough? 00:50:43.610 --> 00:50:46.630 And learn to kind of just trust that. It feels 00:50:46.630 --> 00:50:48.610 good. Let's just keep going. Well, there's some 00:50:48.610 --> 00:50:50.469 scenes in this movie without giving too much 00:50:50.469 --> 00:50:52.630 away where there's conflict between you two guys 00:50:52.630 --> 00:50:55.150 that seems so real. And that's even harder to 00:50:55.150 --> 00:50:57.489 recreate because you guys are good friends. And 00:50:57.489 --> 00:51:00.190 you're making the movie together. And you've 00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:02.150 got this scene where you're acting in this and 00:51:02.150 --> 00:51:04.429 with the conflict with the two of you guys in 00:51:04.429 --> 00:51:06.710 the movie. But it's very fucking real. The reason 00:51:06.710 --> 00:51:08.889 that it was real is that I like that scene. The 00:51:08.889 --> 00:51:12.739 reason it's... works i think is because he's 00:51:12.739 --> 00:51:16.400 coming at me and he's he really needs to know 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:20.280 something and i'm completely blanking him like 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.260 i'm just he's going you gotta tell me what's 00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:24.159 going on man he's like it's awesome like what 00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:26.159 what is going what is the thing and i'm just 00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.260 like literally kind of blanking him in this bizarre 00:51:30.260 --> 00:51:34.139 way which which like was really frustrating him 00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:37.480 in real life because he Because that feeling 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.340 of, like, it's fucking tell me, dude. It's you. 00:51:40.460 --> 00:51:43.360 And he finally goes, he screams out, I don't 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.380 trust you right now. That's a fucking problem, 00:51:45.539 --> 00:51:47.460 right? Which is, like, what you would say to 00:51:47.460 --> 00:51:49.159 an old friend. Like, what are you doing, man? 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:54.519 Like, what are you doing? Like, tell me the fucking 00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:57.380 betrayal. Lie to me or tell me the truth. Don't 00:51:57.380 --> 00:51:59.260 fuck with me and, like, step outside our whole 00:51:59.260 --> 00:52:01.980 relationship and all of a sudden act like, you 00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:03.699 know. Give me this weird look of just, like, 00:52:03.739 --> 00:52:08.019 I don't know. you know like and so we were doing 00:52:08.019 --> 00:52:11.940 the scene it was really fucking pissing him off 00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:13.699 I could see him like getting like the one line 00:52:13.699 --> 00:52:14.940 that wasn't written that I saw that I didn't 00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:16.360 remember doing was I would have never fucked 00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:18.139 you like this I would have never fucked you like 00:52:18.139 --> 00:52:19.900 this yeah which I didn't even remember saying 00:52:19.900 --> 00:52:22.159 I like that keep that thing I wouldn't have fucked 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:24.079 you and I was I thought I was like what is he 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:26.900 I thought what did I and I so watched the playback 00:52:26.900 --> 00:52:28.960 it was one of those rare moments again it was 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.920 like where It was that thing of you doing all 00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:34.639 the work by not doing anything, which I didn't 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.500 expect that to be the choice that you made. And 00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:40.179 it just was confusing and felt like just, you 00:52:40.179 --> 00:52:42.719 know, leaving you out in the fucking cold. I 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.219 think the only thing I could rely on is like, 00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:48.239 you know, I wouldn't do this to you. In those 00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:51.300 moments where you're ad -libbing a line, where 00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:53.980 a line comes, is it just that feels like that's 00:52:53.980 --> 00:52:56.570 what you say? It's just kind of like he couldn't 00:52:56.570 --> 00:52:58.989 stop from saying it. Right. But you have to be 00:52:58.989 --> 00:53:02.150 working with somebody that makes that okay. You 00:53:02.150 --> 00:53:04.030 know what I mean? Because the part of your brain 00:53:04.030 --> 00:53:06.530 that will, like, govern you or tell you something's 00:53:06.530 --> 00:53:09.289 not okay, we'll step in if it's sort of like, 00:53:09.429 --> 00:53:11.670 you know, listen, I expect you to fucking do 00:53:11.670 --> 00:53:14.130 this box. And there's directors and writers who 00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:17.550 really do really care about. every word precisely. 00:53:17.789 --> 00:53:19.269 And that, you know, and that's, that's how they 00:53:19.269 --> 00:53:20.510 do it. And that's fine. And that can be great 00:53:20.510 --> 00:53:24.250 too. For me, like it, I find it's, it becomes 00:53:24.250 --> 00:53:26.090 more interesting and sometimes better stuff happens. 00:53:26.469 --> 00:53:28.170 If you actually feel like you don't have to say 00:53:28.170 --> 00:53:30.210 any of the lines, I don't see any of the lines 00:53:30.210 --> 00:53:32.949 in the scene. then I'll tend to say the ones 00:53:32.949 --> 00:53:37.610 that feel right. But it's that fake thing that 00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:39.449 never happens in life, which is I'm never sitting 00:53:39.449 --> 00:53:41.550 here talking to you and think, what's my next 00:53:41.550 --> 00:53:43.710 line? What am I supposed to say and how should 00:53:43.710 --> 00:53:45.789 I say that? And it's not about the lines ever. 00:53:45.949 --> 00:53:47.570 It's not about the words. It's about what's the 00:53:47.570 --> 00:53:49.769 scene about? What's happening in the scene? It's 00:53:49.769 --> 00:53:51.789 one of the reasons why Curb Your Enthusiasm is 00:53:51.789 --> 00:53:55.190 so great. Larry David just gives you a place 00:53:55.190 --> 00:53:57.809 to get to. Yeah. He gives them kind of a loose 00:53:57.809 --> 00:54:00.050 agenda of what's going to happen. And then films 00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:02.409 a bunch of stuff and everybody figures it out. 00:54:02.630 --> 00:54:04.570 Yeah. And a lot of times that shows about... 00:54:04.969 --> 00:54:07.250 The awkward shit when people are missing each 00:54:07.250 --> 00:54:09.829 other and not sure of themselves and a little 00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:12.329 embarrassed. Fucking genius show. It really is. 00:54:12.409 --> 00:54:15.389 And people talk like we're talking. Like you 00:54:15.389 --> 00:54:17.250 occasionally talk over each other. There's a 00:54:17.250 --> 00:54:19.769 stumble. There's no one. Like what? What the 00:54:19.769 --> 00:54:22.389 fuck are you talking? There's weirdness. Because 00:54:22.389 --> 00:54:24.909 what's also happening is that forces you to really 00:54:24.909 --> 00:54:28.429 listen. Right. And that is that is the hardest 00:54:28.429 --> 00:54:31.269 thing to kind of learn for young actors, I think, 00:54:31.289 --> 00:54:34.050 is is it's really all about listening. And like 00:54:34.050 --> 00:54:36.090 I did a bunch of movies with Paul Greengrass 00:54:36.090 --> 00:54:39.130 and that's how he works, where he where you just 00:54:39.130 --> 00:54:41.750 know the agenda going in. You know, some basic 00:54:41.750 --> 00:54:44.250 things that you know what your guy needs going 00:54:44.250 --> 00:54:47.230 in. Like I was playing a chief warrant officer 00:54:47.230 --> 00:54:49.010 and I had to go through a door and there was 00:54:49.010 --> 00:54:51.760 a guy and I needed to interrogate him. And this 00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:53.960 is what I needed to know from him. I needed to 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:56.300 secure the house with my guys, and I needed to 00:54:56.300 --> 00:54:58.400 get to this guy. We needed to make sure everybody 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.760 here was secure. And he put me with a bunch of 00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:06.139 real combat veterans. And we fucking went in 00:55:06.139 --> 00:55:07.659 and, you know, they're the extras. Which is another 00:55:07.659 --> 00:55:09.880 thing that does your job for you. It's just being 00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.300 around the real people. Joe putting the cops 00:55:12.300 --> 00:55:14.559 from Miami, you know, on these parts. And it 00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:18.360 just, like, by osmosis, you feel more legitimate. 00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:20.760 The thing feels more authentic to the audience. 00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:22.420 You don't know why because you don't know what 00:55:22.420 --> 00:55:25.440 the fucking culture is of the tactical narcotics 00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:27.909 team in Miami. But when you see the real guys, 00:55:28.010 --> 00:55:31.110 you're like, yeah, that seems right. Miami was 00:55:31.110 --> 00:55:33.449 a perfect place to have it, too. Well, it's also 00:55:33.449 --> 00:55:36.369 specific to this because it's based on this real 00:55:36.369 --> 00:55:41.110 tactical narcotics team in Miami. And the guy 00:55:41.110 --> 00:55:44.289 who ran that, this guy, Chris Casiano, is Joe's 00:55:44.289 --> 00:55:46.170 friend, and he's the guy that my character's 00:55:46.170 --> 00:55:49.929 based on. So Chris was Chris. We went, you know, 00:55:49.929 --> 00:55:51.570 we rode along with Chris down there. We went 00:55:51.570 --> 00:55:53.769 with that team and watched them operate and then 00:55:53.769 --> 00:55:55.530 hung out with them. And then they came up and 00:55:55.530 --> 00:55:57.670 they were, you know, all in the movie. And Chris 00:55:57.670 --> 00:55:59.710 was around as a technical advisor the whole time. 00:55:59.789 --> 00:56:02.889 So any question like little details. All right. 00:56:02.909 --> 00:56:04.590 How do I go through this door? What do I do? 00:56:04.630 --> 00:56:06.550 What do you do here? What's the what's the protocol 00:56:06.550 --> 00:56:09.150 here? What you know, all of that stuff was kind 00:56:09.150 --> 00:56:11.969 of overseen by him so that it. so that it was 00:56:11.969 --> 00:56:14.610 how they really do it. That whole fucking town 00:56:14.610 --> 00:56:16.690 is so... Did you ever see Cocaine Cowboys? Yes. 00:56:18.050 --> 00:56:21.590 Shit. The entire fucking graduating class of 00:56:21.590 --> 00:56:23.690 the police academy one year either wound up murdered 00:56:23.690 --> 00:56:27.570 or in jail. That's what happens when all of a 00:56:27.570 --> 00:56:31.030 sudden you push so much fucking money into something, 00:56:31.110 --> 00:56:33.590 right? And it's like, before they even kind of 00:56:33.590 --> 00:56:36.050 figured out, like, you know, and there wasn't 00:56:36.050 --> 00:56:37.809 even a lot of stigma. It was like, ah, cocaine, 00:56:38.070 --> 00:56:41.519 whatever. It's kind of rich guy's fun drug. But, 00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:43.260 you know, is there some statistic about like, 00:56:43.300 --> 00:56:45.820 you know, the amount of money in the banks in 00:56:45.820 --> 00:56:48.159 Miami was like the same as the rest of the country? 00:56:48.219 --> 00:56:51.539 More banks per capita in Miami than anywhere 00:56:51.539 --> 00:56:53.559 else in the country. Right. Because they were 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:55.639 just laundering money. Right. And they got away 00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:57.639 with it. They literally got away with it. Have 00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:02.139 you ever flown over Bimini? No. So if you ever 00:57:02.139 --> 00:57:05.239 fly over Bimini, there are all these like Cessnas 00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:08.820 underwater, all these planes like around the 00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:10.739 island. Because what they used to do, Bimini 00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:13.179 is like the closest, it's 50 miles off the coast 00:57:13.179 --> 00:57:16.539 of Florida. They would come in with a plane full 00:57:16.539 --> 00:57:19.579 of drugs and just crash the plane into the water. 00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:22.469 They would land it. On purpose? On purpose. Because 00:57:22.469 --> 00:57:25.090 there's no runway on Bimini. It's like, fuck 00:57:25.090 --> 00:57:26.269 it, we're going to dump the plane. They would 00:57:26.269 --> 00:57:29.550 have 10 cigarette boats, like a flotilla of boats 00:57:29.550 --> 00:57:32.869 waiting. They would crash the plane. They'd offload 00:57:32.869 --> 00:57:36.269 the drugs as the plane was sinking, right? And 00:57:36.269 --> 00:57:40.670 then they'd put it, the Coast Guard figures they're 00:57:40.670 --> 00:57:42.510 always coming for them. That's why they have 00:57:42.510 --> 00:57:45.110 10 boats. They throw the drugs into one of the 00:57:45.110 --> 00:57:47.849 boats, and they got a 1 out of 10 chance of making 00:57:47.849 --> 00:57:51.110 it. They just scatter. And the Coast Guard goes 00:57:51.110 --> 00:57:53.409 after one of them and hopes they get the right 00:57:53.409 --> 00:57:55.489 one. And it's just like, no, it's just taking 00:57:55.489 --> 00:57:57.369 a cruise tonight. What's the problem, officer? 00:57:58.349 --> 00:58:02.309 But the planes are still all submerged. The water's 00:58:02.309 --> 00:58:03.989 so clear, you can see it. How many fucking planes? 00:58:04.010 --> 00:58:07.469 Oh, wow. Oh, there you go. That's crazy. How 00:58:07.469 --> 00:58:09.769 many fucking planes are out there? I flew over 00:58:09.769 --> 00:58:12.789 it probably 20 years ago, but, I mean, there's... 00:58:12.789 --> 00:58:17.199 That wasn't a... I don't know how long. I mean, 00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:18.699 but if you think of probably the cost of one 00:58:18.699 --> 00:58:20.900 of those little Cessnas probably wasn't, I mean, 00:58:20.900 --> 00:58:22.340 with the amount of drugs they were moving on. 00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:26.699 Yeah. There you go. Fucking wild. They're kind 00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:29.059 of landing where it's sort of shallow. Yeah, 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.000 they land and it's like five to 10 feet of water. 00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:34.500 And what do they, they land at whatever, 55 knots. 00:58:34.659 --> 00:58:36.840 So you just try to. It looks nice too. Like, 00:58:36.860 --> 00:58:39.900 yeah, sure. Wow. It won't be comfortable, but 00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:43.119 I mean, Sully landed at 737 or whatever it was. 00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:48.000 Right. Yeah. Fucking wild. What a crazy part 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:51.059 of our culture that that happened. Yeah. That 00:58:51.059 --> 00:58:54.360 the whole cocaine run during the 80s in particular, 00:58:54.460 --> 00:58:57.360 like Miami Vice, all that shit. It's like it 00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.179 shaped the entire country. For sure. Oh, yeah. 00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:02.719 I just remember that one guy in that documentary 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:04.559 who was like, I think he was from Boston and 00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:06.260 he was like the pilot and he had figured out 00:59:06.260 --> 00:59:08.449 the route and he was like, man. Like, we could 00:59:08.449 --> 00:59:11.969 have gotten away with this forever. It was somebody 00:59:11.969 --> 00:59:14.250 talked, and he knew that's the only way we would 00:59:14.250 --> 00:59:16.130 have been caught. He was like, I had it all. 00:59:16.210 --> 00:59:18.429 He was clearly really smart. A ton of guys did, 00:59:18.510 --> 00:59:20.389 too. You know what I mean? There's a whole lot 00:59:20.389 --> 00:59:21.949 of people out there that were like, yeah, we 00:59:21.949 --> 00:59:25.090 had a nice run. That's why I got eight houses. 00:59:25.530 --> 00:59:29.300 Oh, yeah. That's one of the. real crimes that 00:59:29.300 --> 00:59:31.199 people got away with was bringing cocaine into 00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:32.800 this country. There's a lot of people that got 00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:35.239 very wealthy, including banks, which is just 00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:37.840 really crazy. Banks with the jewelry companies. 00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:40.860 Oh, yeah. There was, like, more Jaguar dealerships 00:59:40.860 --> 00:59:42.679 in Miami than everywhere else in the country. 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:45.019 It was like, doesn't pay to ask questions. So, 00:59:45.019 --> 00:59:47.079 yep, I guess a lot of people like our cars here. 00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:50.559 You don't say. All cash. Sure. Yeah, we can make 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.760 you a deal. Sure. How many backyards in Miami 00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:55.800 still to this day have bags just buried somewhere 00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:57.400 that nobody knows about? It's probably where 00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.920 Just checking. When you buy a house in Miami, 00:59:59.980 --> 01:00:01.820 just dig the yard up. Well, at least find out 01:00:01.820 --> 01:00:04.539 who owned it before you. Oh, he's a pilot. Get 01:00:04.539 --> 01:00:08.360 a truck. Get a tractor. It's time to dig up the 01:00:08.360 --> 01:00:10.820 backyard. I mean, one of those guys in the films 01:00:10.820 --> 01:00:13.159 had millions of dollars just buried in his backyard. 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:14.880 They had nowhere to put it. They were making 01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:16.719 so much money. They just had to bury it places. 01:00:17.260 --> 01:00:19.099 That's fucking crazy. Well, that's why it's a 01:00:19.099 --> 01:00:23.179 perfect backdrop for the film. Because that... 01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:26.139 The situation that the cops, without giving away 01:00:26.139 --> 01:00:27.760 too much of the plot, but the situation that 01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:29.539 the cops are dealing with is a very real situation. 01:00:29.900 --> 01:00:33.199 I mean, so many DEA agents turn dirty. So many 01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:35.500 cops turn dirty. It's because they just get confronted. 01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:37.239 There's so much temptation. Yes. Like, you take 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:39.940 these people. You know, you got, like, six, seven 01:00:39.940 --> 01:00:41.840 people. They fucking work for a living. They 01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:43.400 have the same bullshit they have to deal with. 01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.920 And there's $20 million. And it makes for great 01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:51.079 drama, too, even with the performances. Because 01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:53.659 all of a sudden, somebody's thinking, OK, how 01:00:53.659 --> 01:00:55.519 are they going to react? Who's going to be the 01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:57.880 first person to say, I'm going to have to turn 01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:01.559 this all in? And getting to play that shit. And 01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:05.599 for me, also, without being sanctimonious or 01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:08.219 preachy, because I really think movies... We're 01:01:08.219 --> 01:01:09.559 talking about what they do well. What they do 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:12.420 very poorly is deliver messages or lecture. As 01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:15.360 soon as you get into that thing, the audience 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:17.539 is like, I'm going to go to church for that or 01:01:17.539 --> 01:01:19.719 fucking school. I don't need that shit here. 01:01:20.659 --> 01:01:23.019 But I like that what was underneath it is like, 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:26.260 this is a fucking hard job. And that there's 01:01:26.260 --> 01:01:30.380 a lot of value. These characters, the ones that 01:01:30.380 --> 01:01:31.940 are trying to do their job, are trying to get 01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:34.320 through the day. And just at the end of the day, 01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:36.000 have done their job like they said they were 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:39.079 going to do. Adhere to the fucking ethics that 01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:40.559 they're supposed to. And at the end of the day, 01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:42.039 be able to sleep at night and believe there's 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:45.260 some value in not fucking stealing the money 01:01:45.260 --> 01:01:46.699 or flipping somebody over. You know what I mean? 01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:48.579 And doing all that shit. And that's the win. 01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:50.920 The win doesn't have to be get away with the 01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:53.960 bag of money or fucking save the world from... 01:01:54.409 --> 01:01:56.909 the evil scientist laser beam or whatever. It's 01:01:56.909 --> 01:01:59.150 like, at the end of the day, if you can fucking 01:01:59.150 --> 01:02:01.250 live with yourself and say, look, you know, I 01:02:01.250 --> 01:02:02.650 acquitted myself according to what the fucking 01:02:02.650 --> 01:02:04.929 expectations were and what am I, true to my word. 01:02:05.530 --> 01:02:08.010 And I think there's, like, that's a, I don't 01:02:08.010 --> 01:02:10.070 know, that affected me. I found that kind of 01:02:10.070 --> 01:02:12.630 moving. And you can't do it if you create, like, 01:02:12.690 --> 01:02:15.309 to credit to Joe's script, like, just two -dimensional 01:02:15.309 --> 01:02:17.250 characters. Oh, I'm the hero, I'm the villain, 01:02:17.329 --> 01:02:19.090 or this person would never do that. They all 01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:21.110 have to be real people. Like, you would be subject 01:02:21.110 --> 01:02:23.800 to, like... temptation money just represents 01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:26.159 whatever that thing is you think you want or 01:02:26.159 --> 01:02:27.699 that's going to make your life better you're 01:02:27.699 --> 01:02:29.639 you know it's something different to everybody 01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:33.199 but you know especially when you're like you're 01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:35.659 facing like real you know the custody thing or 01:02:35.659 --> 01:02:37.860 the you know the sick relative or or whatever 01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:40.760 it is that's It's a real thing. Nobody's immune 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:43.880 to that kind of temptation. Sometimes I think 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.260 it's cavalier to be like, oh, well, you're dirty. 01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.659 Putting people in a very tough situation a lot 01:02:49.659 --> 01:02:52.159 of times, particularly if they're feeling undervalued. 01:02:52.340 --> 01:02:54.679 Like the woman seen with Catalina is like, I 01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:57.480 get fucking pissed. I get yelled at. I get shit 01:02:57.480 --> 01:02:59.579 on. You know what I mean? I'm out here grinding 01:02:59.579 --> 01:03:04.860 every fucking day. It's a lot to ask. I think 01:03:04.860 --> 01:03:09.380 it's worth kind of making that heroic without 01:03:09.380 --> 01:03:12.219 sort of indicating too much. No, it's really 01:03:12.219 --> 01:03:14.820 well written because there's no suspension of 01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:17.400 disbelief moments. And that's hard to do in a 01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.679 big blockbuster action movie. There's always 01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.119 one moment in a movie where you're like, what? 01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:25.599 How do you do that? You guys don't have any of 01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:27.900 those. There's none of that. I loved it. I loved 01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:30.820 it. I loved that aspect of it, too, where it 01:03:30.820 --> 01:03:33.340 felt like all of it was. Like, I believed it. 01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:36.019 I believed it. And that's really a credit to 01:03:36.019 --> 01:03:38.980 Joe and his, like, taste. And that's why we really 01:03:38.980 --> 01:03:40.679 thought, like, this guy knew how to make narc. 01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.480 He kind of obviously understood this world and 01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:45.940 understood that it has to, above all, it has 01:03:45.940 --> 01:03:48.760 to feel real. And that's why he was open to, 01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:50.420 like, okay, whatever happens, you throw in a 01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:52.059 line, maybe it's good. Can't get your feeling 01:03:52.059 --> 01:03:54.400 hurt if it's not, you know? But, like, you got 01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:56.440 to be able to take that shot, and we're all down. 01:03:57.070 --> 01:03:59.090 trying to spend time with people. I mean, I kind 01:03:59.090 --> 01:04:00.789 of feel for these cops, a bunch of actors descend 01:04:00.789 --> 01:04:02.670 on you and they're like, what kind of sweatshirt 01:04:02.670 --> 01:04:05.630 is that? It was like that Michael J. Fox, James 01:04:05.630 --> 01:04:08.730 Woods movie. Remember that movie? I forget what 01:04:08.730 --> 01:04:11.010 it was called, but Michael J. Fox is an actor 01:04:11.010 --> 01:04:13.630 following around James Woods. He's studying him 01:04:13.630 --> 01:04:15.570 for a character and James Woods is a real detective 01:04:15.570 --> 01:04:18.289 and he's just like, get this guy away from me. 01:04:18.349 --> 01:04:20.030 I kept thinking of that. Kind of hair gel you. 01:04:20.130 --> 01:04:23.840 Yeah, exactly. All these questions. But they 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:26.380 were very tolerant of us, which was nice and 01:04:26.380 --> 01:04:32.139 really, really helpful. Because it's always details. 01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:35.139 It's always details. It's like how fastidiously 01:04:35.139 --> 01:04:38.699 do you kind of mine for those details? Because 01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:40.920 I've always been convinced that like an audience, 01:04:41.139 --> 01:04:43.559 it's like you were saying, they don't analyze 01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.940 why they don't believe something. They feel it. 01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:48.980 They just don't believe it. And it's usually 01:04:48.980 --> 01:04:52.420 because. Those details are, you don't get those. 01:04:52.619 --> 01:04:54.519 And that's the only thing, like, I'm not great 01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.519 at imagining something. Let's invent this. I 01:04:57.519 --> 01:04:58.900 was just saying, everything that I've done that 01:04:58.900 --> 01:05:01.840 I like has been a result of something I found 01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:04.260 in research. Like for the town, I went down and 01:05:04.260 --> 01:05:07.880 just went through all the prisons out there in 01:05:07.880 --> 01:05:09.340 Massachusetts, federal prisons, state prisons, 01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:12.340 and sat down and talked to guys who robbed trucks 01:05:12.340 --> 01:05:15.679 and banks. And kind of sometimes you want to 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.460 know, and then sat down with the FBI guys and 01:05:17.460 --> 01:05:19.980 was like, what are they like? And the great shit 01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:24.130 for me is that, and I'm in like... I'm in, like, 01:05:24.130 --> 01:05:26.630 wet Walpole or I'm in the prison of Dedham or 01:05:26.630 --> 01:05:29.610 whatever. And some guy said, like, after talking 01:05:29.610 --> 01:05:31.710 for two hours, you know, I was like, is anything 01:05:31.710 --> 01:05:33.869 just fucking weird ever happened or fucked up? 01:05:33.909 --> 01:05:36.349 Anything you remember? The guy was like, yeah, 01:05:36.349 --> 01:05:39.170 one time, you know, we were coming out of this 01:05:39.170 --> 01:05:41.309 thing. We robbed this truck and, you know, we 01:05:41.309 --> 01:05:42.989 had the mask. We got in the switch car. We drove 01:05:42.989 --> 01:05:44.730 around the corner and whatever. We pull up. We 01:05:44.730 --> 01:05:46.510 get out with fucking guns, the mask, the whole 01:05:46.510 --> 01:05:49.969 thing. And we look over and it's just cops sitting 01:05:49.969 --> 01:05:52.630 there doing construction duty. And I was like, 01:05:52.670 --> 01:05:54.030 right then, he didn't tell me the story. I was 01:05:54.030 --> 01:05:56.929 like, oh, shit. I was like, what happened? He 01:05:56.929 --> 01:06:00.190 goes, you know, he looked at us. We looked at 01:06:00.190 --> 01:06:03.269 him. He looked the other way. Whoa. And I was 01:06:03.269 --> 01:06:04.670 like, really? He goes, yeah. He didn't want to 01:06:04.670 --> 01:06:08.389 end up on the wall at the VFW. These guys with 01:06:08.389 --> 01:06:12.110 full automatic weapons, masks on, switching cars. 01:06:12.530 --> 01:06:13.510 I was like, all right, I'm putting that in the 01:06:13.510 --> 01:06:16.550 movie. And it's a great moment in the town, like 01:06:16.550 --> 01:06:18.909 in the movie. Because, you know, they all jump 01:06:18.909 --> 01:06:20.030 out of the things. Yeah, I remember that scene. 01:06:20.289 --> 01:06:24.530 And then, oh, yeah, here it is. It's great. And 01:06:24.530 --> 01:06:28.090 it's this awkward. They just stop. And this dude, 01:06:28.329 --> 01:06:33.829 he sees them. They see him. He's like, fuck, 01:06:33.909 --> 01:06:39.650 we have to kill this guy. Nope. He turns away. 01:06:40.230 --> 01:06:45.690 Okay. Wow. It's such a great, but that's straight 01:06:45.690 --> 01:06:49.530 from research. I always loved that story. And 01:06:49.530 --> 01:06:52.489 then the line is here. He put it here. It was 01:06:52.489 --> 01:06:57.670 a great line. It was such a simple explanation 01:06:57.670 --> 01:07:02.030 for what do you think he did and why. And that's 01:07:02.030 --> 01:07:04.829 exactly what it would have been. That guy, next 01:07:04.829 --> 01:07:06.250 day's picture would have been up in the wall 01:07:06.250 --> 01:07:09.150 at the VFW. And he knew it and everybody knew 01:07:09.150 --> 01:07:11.329 it. He said he didn't want to do it like that. 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:15.320 And that kind of stuff is, I don't know, it's 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:19.539 very human calculations and it's a very extreme 01:07:19.539 --> 01:07:22.340 version of it. But it also doesn't have, sometimes 01:07:22.340 --> 01:07:24.400 it's not dramatic at all. You know, it's like, 01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:26.260 yeah, that was an easy decision. And the guy 01:07:26.260 --> 01:07:27.880 never says anything, I didn't say anything, you 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:30.460 know, and kind of can't really blame him, you 01:07:30.460 --> 01:07:33.579 know. Yeah. The Town was a great fucking movie 01:07:33.579 --> 01:07:36.239 too, man. And I knew a lot of people like that, 01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:39.719 you know, from boxing gyms and stuff. I knew 01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:42.199 a guy who was a hit man for Whitey Bulger. I 01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:44.780 knew a guy who was a friend of a brother of mine 01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:47.780 who went to jail for that, for murder, for killing 01:07:47.780 --> 01:07:50.539 people. What town did you grow up in? I lived 01:07:50.539 --> 01:07:53.980 in Newton. You did? Yeah. I lived in Jamaica 01:07:53.980 --> 01:07:55.880 Plain for a little while. I lived in Newton. 01:07:55.960 --> 01:07:58.199 But I spent a lot of time in Boston because I 01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.420 was fighting. I was mostly training. And so I 01:08:00.420 --> 01:08:02.900 was around a lot of these very shady characters 01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:06.139 who were in the fighting world. And a lot of 01:08:06.139 --> 01:08:08.820 them had backgrounds in crime. One of the guys 01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:11.019 that I went to – that I trained with, he went 01:08:11.019 --> 01:08:13.760 to jail for a little while and then he got arrested 01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:18.199 because a guy got killed and they broke every 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:21.479 bone in his body with a hammer and kept injecting 01:08:21.479 --> 01:08:24.319 it with cocaine to keep him awake while they 01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:26.539 were doing it. And then they cut his hands off 01:08:26.539 --> 01:08:29.100 and cut his head off. And this guy that I used 01:08:29.100 --> 01:08:31.619 to train with got arrested for that. Jesus. Yeah. 01:08:31.699 --> 01:08:34.479 He didn't wind up going to jail for that. He's 01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:37.810 dead now. But he – Was it somehow or another 01:08:37.810 --> 01:08:40.930 at least peripherally involved? Yeah, well, I 01:08:40.930 --> 01:08:43.489 didn't do any fighting, but I went around and 01:08:43.489 --> 01:08:46.390 found a lot. One of the things about being an 01:08:46.390 --> 01:08:49.229 actor is people will talk to you, which is a 01:08:49.229 --> 01:08:51.390 fucking amazing gift. Even if somebody's like, 01:08:51.449 --> 01:08:53.850 oh, yeah, I killed guys. They'll just come out 01:08:53.850 --> 01:08:56.310 and it's kind of the rules all of a sudden don't 01:08:56.310 --> 01:08:57.949 apply. Like these guys in the prison, what the 01:08:57.949 --> 01:08:58.890 fuck are they going to talk? You know what I 01:08:58.890 --> 01:09:00.909 mean? But they're interested in it for whatever. 01:09:01.829 --> 01:09:04.890 So you avail yourself of that. And then I had 01:09:04.890 --> 01:09:07.649 like, you know, we had. people around that movie 01:09:07.649 --> 01:09:09.670 who everybody knew, yeah, he did that job. He 01:09:09.670 --> 01:09:12.470 never got arrested. And so like, yeah, people, 01:09:12.689 --> 01:09:15.430 you know, meet, you know, and, and, and talk 01:09:15.430 --> 01:09:17.869 to him. And it's interesting because the, such 01:09:17.869 --> 01:09:20.329 a good lesson for, for doing this job, which 01:09:20.329 --> 01:09:22.930 is that they're never how you think they're supposed 01:09:22.930 --> 01:09:25.430 to be like the murderer person. Right. Right. 01:09:25.489 --> 01:09:26.710 You know, there's always something a little, 01:09:26.750 --> 01:09:28.630 I remember one guy was supposed to be like this 01:09:28.630 --> 01:09:31.590 really violent kind of loose cannon fucking guy 01:09:31.590 --> 01:09:34.579 who was supposedly had done all this shit. stabbed 01:09:34.579 --> 01:09:36.600 and killed two people, Faneuil Hall, and shot 01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:40.199 these guys in a robbery. And he, like, shows 01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:42.460 up with his polo shirt kind of tucked in, you 01:09:42.460 --> 01:09:44.119 know. He's like, how's it going? You know, just 01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:45.859 like, I never would have fucking put this guy 01:09:45.859 --> 01:09:47.840 on, fucking killing four people. You know what 01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:50.100 I mean? Yeah, have a good time. So I love that 01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:51.960 one movie, and you're just thinking, fuck, man, 01:09:52.039 --> 01:09:55.460 like. This is why, and it's a really good lesson 01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:58.119 for like, you know, we tend to read a script 01:09:58.119 --> 01:09:59.760 and okay, this guy's the tough guy and he's going 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:02.159 to be the, it's like you work with like, I had 01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:03.739 the fucking, like the opportunity to train with 01:10:03.739 --> 01:10:06.199 these Delta guys. Like, you know, it's the most 01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:09.979 elite special forces combat fucking operators 01:10:09.979 --> 01:10:12.020 in the world. I mean, I suppose the SEALs will 01:10:12.020 --> 01:10:14.260 take exception to that, but just numerically, 01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:15.939 right? I think there's been less than 900 guys 01:10:15.939 --> 01:10:18.420 ever in the history of Delta. You meet them. 01:10:19.240 --> 01:10:21.359 And they're not the biggest guys. They're not 01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:23.039 the toughest guys. They're not trying to fucking 01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:25.600 be hard. And, you know, they're the most relaxed, 01:10:25.619 --> 01:10:29.319 at ease. And, you know, I found myself just being 01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:31.319 like, finally, I was like, what? Can I just ask 01:10:31.319 --> 01:10:33.159 you, what do you think makes somebody, like, 01:10:33.220 --> 01:10:36.279 qualify for the Delta Force? Like, what's a good 01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:39.680 Delta operator? It's like, you know, problem 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:42.880 solving. Problem solving? The guy goes, yeah, 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:44.119 it's probably like your job. I was like, no, 01:10:44.199 --> 01:10:46.720 let me tell you something. It's really not like 01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:50.319 my job. I appreciate it. Very big fucking difference. 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:52.140 He's like, yeah, you solve problems. No one's 01:10:52.140 --> 01:10:54.659 trying to kill me. That's the thing. But that 01:10:54.659 --> 01:10:58.359 was the closest insight I got to, which was I've 01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:00.840 always kind of thought this about guys like Brady 01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:04.000 or something. There's guys that just don't get 01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:07.510 tight. And that they are kind of able to problem 01:11:07.510 --> 01:11:10.210 solve when the problem is like, well, that helicopter's 01:11:10.210 --> 01:11:12.409 crashed and we're 200 miles inside Afghanistan 01:11:12.409 --> 01:11:14.649 and we're outnumbered fucking six to one. How 01:11:14.649 --> 01:11:17.029 do you think we should get home? Like, just having 01:11:17.029 --> 01:11:18.789 your wits about you to make that calculation 01:11:18.789 --> 01:11:21.670 while, by the way, you're in a fucking gunfight 01:11:21.670 --> 01:11:24.010 and things, you know, I'm sure that does make, 01:11:24.069 --> 01:11:25.649 because those are the people where I'd be in 01:11:25.649 --> 01:11:28.210 a fucking panic and have no idea what to do. 01:11:28.529 --> 01:11:31.149 And you get. like attracted to the person who, 01:11:31.149 --> 01:11:33.409 who's like, seems to have a, like, Hey, I'm, 01:11:33.449 --> 01:11:35.069 it's good. We're going to be okay. Everybody 01:11:35.069 --> 01:11:37.090 get your shit. We're going over here. You'll 01:11:37.090 --> 01:11:39.310 just follow that guy. You know what I mean? Yeah. 01:11:39.510 --> 01:11:41.649 Yeah. And, uh, but it's a good, it's not always 01:11:41.649 --> 01:11:44.430 the most, maybe it's just cause they're so confident. 01:11:44.529 --> 01:11:46.149 They're not like, I don't like, I don't need 01:11:46.149 --> 01:11:48.310 to prove that I can kick anybody's ass. I don't 01:11:48.310 --> 01:11:50.729 even get in fights like of a weapon. You know 01:11:50.729 --> 01:11:55.130 what I mean? It's just, uh, it always, it surprises 01:11:55.130 --> 01:11:58.199 me what it, how those kinds of. like extraordinary 01:11:58.199 --> 01:12:00.340 experiences and people or extraordinary people 01:12:00.340 --> 01:12:03.539 don't always manifest themselves in how they 01:12:03.539 --> 01:12:05.840 show up. But we have caricatures in our head 01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:09.140 of what like these tough people are like. Well, 01:12:09.180 --> 01:12:11.079 you see that about MMA fighters. Like there's 01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:12.920 a lot of MMA fighters. You meet them. They're 01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:14.880 like the sweetest, nicest, friendliest people 01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:17.199 in the world. I remember going to one of the 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:20.000 events in LA. I think it was at Staples. And 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:25.300 I was backstage and was talking to... one of 01:12:25.300 --> 01:12:28.020 the lawyers for the UFC. We were talking about 01:12:28.020 --> 01:12:29.600 Conor McGregor, and he was telling me a great 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:34.159 story about him. And this guy walks up, and he's 01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:37.819 in chinos, khaki pants, and a blue button -up 01:12:37.819 --> 01:12:42.300 kind of business shirt with spectacles. And he's 01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:45.539 very small, and I kind of don't really regard 01:12:45.539 --> 01:12:48.479 him, and I'm still hearing this story. And then 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:50.560 Padgett goes, Matt, do you know Henry? And I 01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:53.239 turn, and it's Henry Cejudo. And I'm like, this 01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:59.020 fucking guy. Could wreck me. Absolutely fucking 01:12:59.020 --> 01:13:03.319 destroy me. And he is the guy that some dummy 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:05.000 would try to pick on. Yeah, right. You know what 01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:09.140 I mean? He's not carrying himself. He just is 01:13:09.140 --> 01:13:12.760 the thing, you know? Find out a little bit too 01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:16.260 late. Yeah, don't find that one out late. A lot 01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:20.739 of guys do, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, they don't 01:13:20.739 --> 01:13:22.380 have to prove themselves, right? They do it all 01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:24.819 the time. The same with Delta Force guys. This 01:13:24.819 --> 01:13:28.279 idea that this outwardly brash, tough guy, usually 01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:32.399 that kind of machismo, that's bullshit. You're 01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:34.880 using that because you're insecure. The secure 01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:38.279 people are very calm and genuinely very friendly. 01:13:38.420 --> 01:13:40.699 Really nice. Yeah. That's been my experience. 01:13:40.699 --> 01:13:42.460 Yeah, it's crazy, right? It's kind of beautiful, 01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:45.800 too. What a great guy. And you feel like, that's 01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:48.319 nice of you to be so sweet to me because obviously 01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:51.060 you don't have to be. I'll just give you my watch 01:13:51.060 --> 01:13:56.279 if you want that. Yeah. No, it is a fascinating 01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:58.380 thing. It's like we have these ideas in our head, 01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:01.520 these caricatures, you know, of what a tough 01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:03.800 man is, what a good woman is, what this is, what 01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:06.399 that is. And I think one of the beautiful things 01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:09.180 about film, when a film is really good, is you 01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:11.460 see these complex characters and it sort of like 01:14:11.460 --> 01:14:14.600 reformulates in your mind. what a person actually 01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:16.760 is. Yeah, it's seeing all kinds of different 01:14:16.760 --> 01:14:20.720 people. Yeah. And, yeah, yeah, I completely agree. 01:14:20.739 --> 01:14:23.039 Look, the fundamental, like, challenge, I think, 01:14:23.079 --> 01:14:29.029 in life is, like, to find some humility. which 01:14:29.029 --> 01:14:31.430 means actually thinking you might be wrong about 01:14:31.430 --> 01:14:33.750 the shit that you're pretty sure about. And it 01:14:33.750 --> 01:14:35.750 means that you kind of have to assume somebody 01:14:35.750 --> 01:14:39.090 else might have a point. It's not like just writing 01:14:39.090 --> 01:14:41.069 everybody else off who disagrees with you because, 01:14:41.130 --> 01:14:43.430 oh, fuck him, he's stupid, he's an asshole. Those 01:14:43.430 --> 01:14:46.529 are things that actually take work to get to 01:14:46.529 --> 01:14:49.489 because the first instinct, because you just 01:14:49.489 --> 01:14:52.029 defend your idea or whatever, it's easier is 01:14:52.029 --> 01:14:53.810 to just... That it's a zero -sum game somehow. 01:14:54.069 --> 01:14:55.770 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that two competing ideas 01:14:55.770 --> 01:14:58.779 can't exist. Somebody can't be a good person. 01:14:58.880 --> 01:15:02.420 And believe it. Right, right. Like, you can disagree. 01:15:02.699 --> 01:15:04.500 We don't believe this. I don't know. What about 01:15:04.500 --> 01:15:06.899 this? What about that? But once you find yourself 01:15:06.899 --> 01:15:08.819 relying on, like, well, I need to, like, zero 01:15:08.819 --> 01:15:11.500 out this person's humanity in order to defend 01:15:11.500 --> 01:15:13.949 my idea. I think that's a pretty good indicator 01:15:13.949 --> 01:15:15.710 that, like, there's something wrong with the 01:15:15.710 --> 01:15:17.810 way you're thinking. Like, because it can't be 01:15:17.810 --> 01:15:19.649 that you're right about everything and everyone 01:15:19.649 --> 01:15:21.710 else is bad who disagrees with you. I think that 01:15:21.710 --> 01:15:23.930 was one of the most interesting things about 01:15:23.930 --> 01:15:27.430 The Sopranos is that the main character, the 01:15:27.430 --> 01:15:30.029 guy that you loved, was a fucking murderer. Yeah. 01:15:30.189 --> 01:15:34.930 Who would murder his friends. He was a complete 01:15:34.930 --> 01:15:37.789 mobster and a thug, but you really loved him. 01:15:37.789 --> 01:15:40.149 You loved the shit out of that guy. It was so 01:15:40.149 --> 01:15:44.170 complicated. Jim was so good at doing the part 01:15:44.170 --> 01:15:46.149 that you found yourself being like, I don't know, 01:15:46.170 --> 01:15:49.369 he probably has to kill him now. That's also 01:15:49.369 --> 01:15:53.350 a great actor. There's a very famous story about 01:15:53.350 --> 01:15:56.170 Marlon Brando when he did Streetcar Named Desire. 01:15:56.630 --> 01:15:59.909 And Tennessee Williams, who wrote it, like... 01:16:00.700 --> 01:16:03.760 Freaked out because he was making Stanley Kowalski. 01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:06.960 He was making people empathize with Stanley Kowalski. 01:16:07.220 --> 01:16:09.039 And Tennessee Williams was like, but I wrote 01:16:09.039 --> 01:16:11.579 him as a brute. He was like a two -dimensional 01:16:11.579 --> 01:16:14.600 brute who just came and beat up his wife and 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:17.399 was supposed to be this kind of dark, looming 01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:20.159 force over the play. But Brando was like, no, 01:16:20.260 --> 01:16:21.579 he's a human being, and I'm going to play him 01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:24.659 like a fucking human being. And it changed the 01:16:24.659 --> 01:16:28.560 play. But Williams, in all of his writings. He 01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:29.720 has so much more reflex life in the real world. 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:31.460 Yeah, exactly. Everybody's the hero of their 01:16:31.460 --> 01:16:33.340 story. Everyone has their reasons for why they're 01:16:33.340 --> 01:16:35.300 doing it. And people don't set out to be like, 01:16:35.380 --> 01:16:37.500 I'm just going to hurt someone or dominate the 01:16:37.500 --> 01:16:39.479 world. You think, well, I've got to protect what 01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:41.779 I have. It's like, not to bring it back to this 01:16:41.779 --> 01:16:43.680 movie, but it's like what I liked about Rip was 01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:46.279 it was kind of the slippery slope. The first 01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:48.500 time you take a little money, and then, well, 01:16:48.720 --> 01:16:49.859 I've got to cover that. I don't want to go to 01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:52.180 jail. My reason why I did that. But now I've 01:16:52.180 --> 01:16:54.460 told a lie. Now I've got to cover that thing. 01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:56.819 And now you have to. guys who both live by this 01:16:56.819 --> 01:16:59.079 code. That's very, Hey, you protect the people 01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:00.960 who are with you and you got to have this fucking. 01:17:01.100 --> 01:17:04.600 And so now it's to be very similar, like by that 01:17:04.600 --> 01:17:06.840 kind of slippery slope of ultimately find themselves, 01:17:06.939 --> 01:17:10.520 you know, well, I killed one another, uh, because 01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:12.520 it's really not, I don't, I don't believe in 01:17:12.520 --> 01:17:15.039 that one choice turn. It's like more, how do 01:17:15.039 --> 01:17:16.819 you find yourself? You dig yourself in a fucking 01:17:16.819 --> 01:17:18.899 hole. Cause you're just covering up the light, 01:17:18.960 --> 01:17:21.340 trying to fix the last problem that's arisen, 01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:24.430 you know? And everybody thinks. is, of course, 01:17:24.430 --> 01:17:26.189 the roots for themselves. It's like empathize 01:17:26.189 --> 01:17:28.329 with themselves. That's what we have to be concerned 01:17:28.329 --> 01:17:30.050 with ourselves, our needs, our families, our 01:17:30.050 --> 01:17:33.670 basic shit. It's hard to expect people to go 01:17:33.670 --> 01:17:37.270 like, all right, and what about, you know, like 01:17:37.270 --> 01:17:40.890 what they think. And I think that's, I think 01:17:40.890 --> 01:17:43.409 it's a much more honest evaluation of people 01:17:43.409 --> 01:17:45.949 and it allows for like complexity and forgiveness 01:17:45.949 --> 01:17:49.229 and fucking all the shit that's. sort of beautiful 01:17:49.229 --> 01:17:51.770 about people like rather than this notion of 01:17:51.770 --> 01:17:53.930 like well we're going to be binary good or bad 01:17:53.930 --> 01:17:56.949 perfect or not whatever and any infraction then 01:17:56.949 --> 01:18:00.210 it's like permanently stains you right right 01:18:00.210 --> 01:18:01.609 that's like what we were talking about earlier 01:18:01.609 --> 01:18:03.909 about people that have been canceled you know 01:18:03.909 --> 01:18:07.810 that this idea that one thing you said or one 01:18:07.810 --> 01:18:10.390 thing you did and now we're going to exaggerate 01:18:10.390 --> 01:18:12.869 that to the fullest extent and cast you out of 01:18:12.869 --> 01:18:15.289 civilization in perpetuity yeah it's fucking 01:18:15.289 --> 01:18:20.069 crazy and yeah Because I bet some of those people 01:18:20.069 --> 01:18:24.090 would have preferred to go to jail for 18 months 01:18:24.090 --> 01:18:26.390 or whatever and then come out and say, no, but 01:18:26.390 --> 01:18:31.149 I paid my debt. Like, we're done. Like, can we 01:18:31.149 --> 01:18:35.090 be done? Like, the thing about that, you know, 01:18:35.090 --> 01:18:39.050 getting kind of excoriated publicly like that, 01:18:39.130 --> 01:18:42.350 it just never ends. And it's the first thing 01:18:42.350 --> 01:18:45.739 that, you know, it just... will follow you to 01:18:45.739 --> 01:18:47.420 the grave, I think. It's also this problem that 01:18:47.420 --> 01:18:49.000 people have with people that are in the public 01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:51.739 eye. They have this desire to chop them down, 01:18:51.880 --> 01:18:54.840 always. And anybody that stumbles in the public 01:18:54.840 --> 01:18:56.960 eye, they want to destroy their life. And they 01:18:56.960 --> 01:18:59.199 want to just pile on. And you're not there with 01:18:59.199 --> 01:19:01.140 them. You don't feel the empathy. You're not 01:19:01.140 --> 01:19:03.239 talking to them. They're not a human being. It's 01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:06.560 just text on a screen. It's just kind of, like 01:19:06.560 --> 01:19:08.479 I was saying, that kind of sixth grade instinct 01:19:08.479 --> 01:19:11.699 to be like, oh, he's in trouble. There's this 01:19:11.699 --> 01:19:15.180 human, like, we have dark. fucked up instincts 01:19:15.180 --> 01:19:18.800 too sometimes to like isolate people or get joy 01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:20.899 out of someone else they're in trouble because 01:19:20.899 --> 01:19:22.520 maybe because part of it's saying hey it's not 01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:25.000 me you know so if you can point the finger everyone's 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:27.520 looking over there we feel safer you know right 01:19:28.140 --> 01:19:31.319 But it's like, yeah, and to take any forgiveness 01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:34.399 out of it, you know, is a really fucked up thing 01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:36.640 because then it makes it impossible, A, to actually 01:19:36.640 --> 01:19:39.140 go, all right, yeah, I did that. Fuck shit. That 01:19:39.140 --> 01:19:41.979 was wrong. I get it. You know, because it doesn't 01:19:41.979 --> 01:19:43.680 matter. Once you've said you've done it, you 01:19:43.680 --> 01:19:46.939 become like an outcast. And I don't think anybody 01:19:46.939 --> 01:19:49.300 wants to think, you know, like the sum total 01:19:49.300 --> 01:19:51.340 of who you are is your worst moment. Right. You 01:19:51.340 --> 01:19:54.850 know, it's sort of like. I think you want to 01:19:54.850 --> 01:19:56.409 be judged just as well. Are you capable of doing 01:19:56.409 --> 01:19:57.909 something good or something beautiful? It's not 01:19:57.909 --> 01:19:59.810 to say to forget. There's people that just over 01:19:59.810 --> 01:20:01.409 and over and over again are doing horrible shit, 01:20:01.449 --> 01:20:04.789 don't care. I get it. No one's trying to absolve 01:20:04.789 --> 01:20:08.170 that. But you remove the ability to forgive people 01:20:08.170 --> 01:20:09.890 or look at them in a complicated way. Or else 01:20:09.890 --> 01:20:12.409 it's kind of one of those things. It's like get 01:20:12.409 --> 01:20:14.930 one of ours or one of them. The instinct to get 01:20:14.930 --> 01:20:18.829 team, tribal oriented. It just becomes a sport. 01:20:20.590 --> 01:20:22.489 It's also like, who wants to live in a world 01:20:22.489 --> 01:20:24.829 with no forgiveness and redemption? That's crazy. 01:20:25.590 --> 01:20:28.390 That's just denying the very nature of human 01:20:28.390 --> 01:20:31.210 beings. And that people do things that they regret. 01:20:31.470 --> 01:20:33.770 And then they become better people because of 01:20:33.770 --> 01:20:37.329 it. Some of the people I would rely on the most, 01:20:37.390 --> 01:20:39.949 like trust my kids with the most, have done shit 01:20:39.949 --> 01:20:42.949 that they really regret. And, you know, it was, 01:20:43.010 --> 01:20:45.210 yeah, objectively wrong. And other people have 01:20:45.210 --> 01:20:47.170 been like, ah, shit, I did that. I fucking, whether 01:20:47.170 --> 01:20:49.130 it's like addiction, I got myself down this fucking 01:20:49.130 --> 01:20:51.250 road. I did this, I did this. They're able to 01:20:51.250 --> 01:20:53.869 go, I did it. I'm sorry. It's real. I shouldn't 01:20:53.869 --> 01:20:56.920 have done it. It was wrong. Actually, those people 01:20:56.920 --> 01:20:59.420 can become someone that's very trustworthy. Because 01:20:59.420 --> 01:21:02.060 you're like, this motherfucker will say if they've 01:21:02.060 --> 01:21:03.619 done something. They'll actually look at their 01:21:03.619 --> 01:21:06.159 own behavior. They'll acknowledge it. And then 01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:09.500 you feel good. Versus someone who tells you, 01:21:09.539 --> 01:21:14.060 I always get it right. It's about evolution, 01:21:14.319 --> 01:21:18.119 right? And our own personal evolution. And we're 01:21:18.119 --> 01:21:22.560 all on our own path towards that. The idea of 01:21:22.560 --> 01:21:25.779 attacking someone is like... Oh, so you... You 01:21:25.779 --> 01:21:27.960 ace the test? Like put your pencil down? Like 01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:31.760 you nailed being human? You're done. If you did 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:34.199 nail being human, that's not possible because 01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:36.380 you forgot about the part about forgiveness. 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.720 You haven't nailed it by definition if you're 01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:41.800 out there throwing stones. It's most of the people 01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:43.340 that I find, especially when there's someone 01:21:43.340 --> 01:21:45.560 that's publicly in trouble for something, most 01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:47.220 of the people that I know that have attacked 01:21:47.220 --> 01:21:49.500 people have a lot of questionable shit in their 01:21:49.500 --> 01:21:51.460 past. And it's almost like they're trying to 01:21:51.460 --> 01:21:53.300 hide that by going on the attack. That's the 01:21:53.300 --> 01:21:55.239 thing. Like if I can point my finger. It's like, 01:21:55.239 --> 01:21:57.640 who's going to be? Oh, he's a good guy. Ben's 01:21:57.640 --> 01:21:59.720 a good guy. He's calling them out. Yeah, exactly. 01:22:00.180 --> 01:22:05.119 Meanwhile, you know. It's like you were telling 01:22:05.119 --> 01:22:08.140 me to see Wake Up Dead Man, the third Knives 01:22:08.140 --> 01:22:09.720 Out movie. Oh, it's great. I watched it. I really 01:22:09.720 --> 01:22:11.619 liked it. I thought it was a really interesting, 01:22:11.819 --> 01:22:14.380 like, you know, I'm not a religious guy. And, 01:22:14.380 --> 01:22:18.119 yeah, I'm aware of all the, like, okay, you know. 01:22:18.750 --> 01:22:20.250 There's the religion, then there's people who 01:22:20.250 --> 01:22:21.510 are supposed to be rational. I thought it was 01:22:21.510 --> 01:22:24.630 a really beautiful movie about, like, what's 01:22:24.630 --> 01:22:27.609 the role of grace? in life you know yeah and 01:22:27.609 --> 01:22:29.989 and a really honest examination of that like 01:22:29.989 --> 01:22:33.069 sitting doesn't side by side with yeah okay you 01:22:33.069 --> 01:22:35.850 don't believe that but like you and you know 01:22:35.850 --> 01:22:37.890 saying it's not about like whether you're gonna 01:22:37.890 --> 01:22:40.489 argue over fucking evolution it's about like 01:22:40.489 --> 01:22:43.289 how graceful are you in your life you know how 01:22:43.289 --> 01:22:45.529 much fucking dignity can you afford other people 01:22:45.529 --> 01:22:47.810 i know you want to recognize and see that there's 01:22:47.810 --> 01:22:49.750 maybe something bigger than yourself and that 01:22:49.750 --> 01:22:52.670 there's a reason to to like uh to try to sort 01:22:52.670 --> 01:22:55.640 of be to find that grace, to get better. I thought 01:22:55.640 --> 01:22:57.539 it was really beautiful and kind of rare and 01:22:57.539 --> 01:23:00.479 really surprised. I was really surprised, too. 01:23:00.539 --> 01:23:03.699 I kind of put it on and not, you know, not thinking 01:23:03.699 --> 01:23:08.079 I'd like it. I loved it. Yeah, I loved it, too. 01:23:08.180 --> 01:23:10.619 I think it's one of the best of the three. It 01:23:10.619 --> 01:23:13.220 was my favorite of the three. Those are great. 01:23:13.460 --> 01:23:15.579 Daniel Craig is great in that role. He's fantastic. 01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:17.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy goes from James Bond 01:23:17.539 --> 01:23:20.159 to that and so many other things as well. Josh 01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:24.239 O 'Connor, who played the priest, because I first 01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:27.079 saw him on The Crown. The Crown, yeah. I liked 01:23:27.079 --> 01:23:30.600 him a lot. Man, what an actor he is. Really, 01:23:30.640 --> 01:23:33.100 really good. How much film do you guys consume? 01:23:33.279 --> 01:23:36.340 Do you spend a lot of time watching films? Well, 01:23:36.380 --> 01:23:38.539 with the company, it depends. There's a lot. 01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:40.300 Like, if we're working, we're watching cuts after 01:23:40.300 --> 01:23:41.939 cuts and going to the editing room. Like, there's 01:23:41.939 --> 01:23:45.819 a lot of kind of work around all the stuff that 01:23:45.819 --> 01:23:48.800 we have going that eats into a lot of time. I'm 01:23:48.800 --> 01:23:51.159 mostly just trying to keep up with what people 01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:54.279 are doing. My issue is really that... like we've 01:23:54.279 --> 01:23:56.119 kind of developed this pattern where all these 01:23:56.119 --> 01:23:58.279 sort of movies that come out and are more interesting 01:23:58.279 --> 01:23:59.880 and very, like they're all jammed out at the 01:23:59.880 --> 01:24:01.479 last fucking month of the year. And so all of 01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:03.239 a sudden you're trying to race. You got homework. 01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:07.159 Yeah. Right. I got really lucky. Like, uh, recently 01:24:07.159 --> 01:24:10.739 my son, you know, 13 society, he wants to like. 01:24:11.039 --> 01:24:12.920 watch movies, you know? And I'd give him shit. 01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:13.979 I'm like, what are you fucking doing? We're always 01:24:13.979 --> 01:24:16.060 looking at TikTok and shit. Like, let's watch 01:24:16.060 --> 01:24:18.060 a movie. And, you know, he's kind of blowing 01:24:18.060 --> 01:24:19.979 me off and rolling his eyes. And he's like, you 01:24:19.979 --> 01:24:21.939 know, I mean, if you're a dad, you're kind of 01:24:21.939 --> 01:24:23.359 an asshole fundamentally. Like, come on, you 01:24:23.359 --> 01:24:24.739 don't know what's going on. You know what I mean? 01:24:25.119 --> 01:24:27.039 Like, he told me one time, he was like, dad, 01:24:27.140 --> 01:24:29.520 I said, let's watch this movie. I played in the 01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:32.800 trailer. It was, I can't remember what the movie 01:24:32.800 --> 01:24:34.560 was. It was a good movie. And the trailer was 01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:36.760 good. He just looks at it and goes, you know 01:24:36.760 --> 01:24:38.670 what you guys ought to do? you guys ought to 01:24:38.670 --> 01:24:41.470 work with some of the TikTok editors. I was just 01:24:41.470 --> 01:24:45.670 like, wow. I went and told the editors, I told 01:24:45.670 --> 01:24:47.510 Billy and Chris, I was like, guys, I got news 01:24:47.510 --> 01:24:50.850 for you. But now he's like, all right, let's 01:24:50.850 --> 01:24:52.670 watch, like, what are some movies I should watch? 01:24:52.770 --> 01:24:54.409 He got Ladderbox, he got into that thing, you 01:24:54.409 --> 01:24:57.130 know, it's like, so I said, okay, what are the 01:24:57.130 --> 01:24:58.390 great movies? I'll give you a list. I started 01:24:58.390 --> 01:25:00.449 giving him a list. They started watching them. 01:25:00.949 --> 01:25:03.319 And so, I mean, this is like. happen for me so 01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:04.760 it's like okay what are you watching king of 01:25:04.760 --> 01:25:06.939 comedy like last week i watched backseat driver 01:25:06.939 --> 01:25:10.380 king of all these scorsese movies and it really 01:25:10.380 --> 01:25:12.319 was like oh man i because in my mind i'm like 01:25:12.319 --> 01:25:14.520 sure i've seen that movie i know i watched them 01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:17.909 again it was like I realized how much better 01:25:17.909 --> 01:25:19.930 they were than I even could appreciate when I 01:25:19.930 --> 01:25:23.210 watched it when I was younger. And it was just 01:25:23.210 --> 01:25:25.930 the most beautiful fucking experience for me 01:25:25.930 --> 01:25:27.909 to watch with my son. He's taking an interest. 01:25:28.430 --> 01:25:30.670 The older two have always been a little bit like, 01:25:30.810 --> 01:25:32.689 yeah, Dad, no, great. Hey, you guys want to come 01:25:32.689 --> 01:25:35.590 to the premiere? No, not really. You guys want 01:25:35.590 --> 01:25:38.090 to come to the set? No, I'm good. Well, it's 01:25:38.090 --> 01:25:40.649 just too much familiarity. You grow up with a 01:25:40.649 --> 01:25:42.829 dad who's a movie star, just like, eh. The kid's 01:25:42.829 --> 01:25:44.350 got to, and I get it. You've got to be your own 01:25:44.350 --> 01:25:46.399 person, do your thing. have all their own shit 01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:48.600 and i get you know i i never even so i never 01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:50.640 expected it from my son and i don't know that 01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:52.939 he's gonna you know and i wouldn't want to lean 01:25:52.939 --> 01:25:54.600 on him like hey get into the family business 01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:57.260 um most of the time it's just like you know we 01:25:57.260 --> 01:25:59.659 go to like basketball games baseball all that 01:25:59.659 --> 01:26:02.579 type of stuff and um but it but this was a really 01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:06.819 that was like i was like so joyful you know what 01:26:06.819 --> 01:26:08.340 i mean i sit there and watch the movies with 01:26:08.340 --> 01:26:12.210 my my kid I was like, this doesn't get better. 01:26:12.310 --> 01:26:14.689 This is the happiest I may ever be in my whole 01:26:14.689 --> 01:26:17.409 life. Right here, watch this movie. And he's 01:26:17.409 --> 01:26:20.189 like, well, he's telling me what he thinks. Honestly, 01:26:21.489 --> 01:26:23.649 the rest of it, you can fucking keep it. That's 01:26:23.649 --> 01:26:25.850 awesome. That's the best. Well, it's great that 01:26:25.850 --> 01:26:29.949 you guys still love film. It hasn't become just 01:26:29.949 --> 01:26:32.390 a job. It hasn't become a thing that you do. 01:26:32.510 --> 01:26:35.260 You really enjoy it and love it. Yeah, it was 01:26:35.260 --> 01:26:37.500 never a job. I mean, it really, like, it was, 01:26:37.500 --> 01:26:40.279 like, an absolute dream from the time we were 01:26:40.279 --> 01:26:43.199 kids. We did fucking high school theater together, 01:26:43.340 --> 01:26:46.939 you know? That's crazy. It was, like, we were 01:26:46.939 --> 01:26:49.659 lucky to get it and lucky to, the whole idea 01:26:49.659 --> 01:26:51.300 that you could even, the goal was, like, to make 01:26:51.300 --> 01:26:53.119 a living and not have to be, like, well, I'm 01:26:53.119 --> 01:26:55.819 an actor, you know, slash waiter, contractor, 01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:57.819 dental assistant, whatever the fuck it is, you 01:26:57.819 --> 01:27:00.039 know? Like, actually, I can earn money. I can, 01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:02.229 and we always figured, like, I don't need that 01:27:02.229 --> 01:27:04.329 much, especially if we have kids. Yeah. You know, 01:27:04.329 --> 01:27:06.289 OK, we can make a living or it's, you know, maybe 01:27:06.289 --> 01:27:08.069 it's fucking going to be dinner theater or maybe 01:27:08.069 --> 01:27:09.869 it's going to be right. It's going to be there'll 01:27:09.869 --> 01:27:11.890 be a job somewhere that we can find where we 01:27:11.890 --> 01:27:14.319 can do this and keep doing it. Yeah. Well, there's 01:27:14.319 --> 01:27:16.699 something – I mean I love when people love things. 01:27:16.859 --> 01:27:20.100 I spend time on YouTube watching people like 01:27:20.100 --> 01:27:24.960 fix watches. I don't know why, but I love when 01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:27.439 people make furniture. I love watching people 01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:29.380 do things that they really love, that they're 01:27:29.380 --> 01:27:32.060 invested in. I think we all have that thing in 01:27:32.060 --> 01:27:34.920 us where we see someone who's got a passion for 01:27:34.920 --> 01:27:37.199 something, someone who really loves it. And that's 01:27:37.199 --> 01:27:39.420 what everybody really wants in life, to be lost 01:27:39.420 --> 01:27:42.319 in a thing you love, to have a purpose. And it's 01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:45.189 beautiful. Watching someone else with true purpose. 01:27:45.409 --> 01:27:48.069 Yeah. It's hypnotic. It reminds me of Joe versus 01:27:48.069 --> 01:27:50.470 the volcano. He goes in to buy luggage. Do you 01:27:50.470 --> 01:27:53.149 like luggage, sir? He's like, uh, he goes, luggage 01:27:53.149 --> 01:27:57.109 is the central preoccupation of my life. Guy's 01:27:57.109 --> 01:27:58.869 a luggage salesman and he fucking loves bags. 01:27:58.869 --> 01:28:01.930 He loves nothing more than luggage. And it's 01:28:01.930 --> 01:28:04.489 the greatest scene. I asked Tom Hanks about that 01:28:04.489 --> 01:28:06.189 when I did Saving Private Ryan. I was like, can 01:28:06.189 --> 01:28:07.970 you tell me about that scene? Because we love 01:28:07.970 --> 01:28:10.050 this scene so much. And he named the actor. He's 01:28:10.050 --> 01:28:12.029 a Broadway actor, I guess, the guy. He came in. 01:28:12.270 --> 01:28:14.229 He worked for like one day in this scene. And 01:28:14.229 --> 01:28:16.630 he's so good in that movie. And then at the very 01:28:16.630 --> 01:28:19.029 end, he's showing them all the luggage. And Tom 01:28:19.029 --> 01:28:20.909 Hanks has unlimited money to spend. He thinks 01:28:20.909 --> 01:28:23.050 he's dying. And so he basically goes like, well, 01:28:23.069 --> 01:28:24.670 what's the best luggage? And he goes, well, if 01:28:24.670 --> 01:28:28.670 I had the means, sir. And he opens up this thing 01:28:28.670 --> 01:28:30.630 and there's this trunk and it's like this music 01:28:30.630 --> 01:28:32.850 plays and he opens it. And Tom Hanks is like. 01:28:33.579 --> 01:28:35.899 I'll take two of them. And he goes, may you live 01:28:35.899 --> 01:28:40.100 to be a thousand years old. This is the greatest 01:28:40.100 --> 01:28:45.060 day of his life. Oh, God. That's amazing. You 01:28:45.060 --> 01:28:46.920 guys have been in some fucking bangers, man. 01:28:47.789 --> 01:28:50.890 Save a Private Ryan, that opening film, the storming 01:28:50.890 --> 01:28:53.329 of the beach. Unbelievable. That might be the 01:28:53.329 --> 01:28:56.210 most realistic depiction of war that's ever been 01:28:56.210 --> 01:28:58.670 made. So I remember reading the script and there 01:28:58.670 --> 01:29:00.529 was all this dialogue, all this stuff that was 01:29:00.529 --> 01:29:02.050 written. And I came late because I'm only in 01:29:02.050 --> 01:29:04.130 the, he shot it chronologically and I'm only 01:29:04.130 --> 01:29:06.609 in the last, you know, the last act of the movie 01:29:06.609 --> 01:29:11.869 basically. And he told me on set. I was saying, 01:29:11.890 --> 01:29:14.229 I go, how did it go at the beginning? There's 01:29:14.229 --> 01:29:17.130 all that dialogue with them on the boat coming 01:29:17.130 --> 01:29:21.590 in. And Stephen goes, he just goes, I cut all 01:29:21.590 --> 01:29:24.689 of that out. He goes, no talking for the first 01:29:24.689 --> 01:29:27.930 27 minutes of this movie. Whoa. And that was 01:29:27.930 --> 01:29:29.930 when I was like, oh, my God, this movie is going 01:29:29.930 --> 01:29:32.460 to be fucking unbelievable. I think Tom says, 01:29:32.600 --> 01:29:34.100 like, I'll see you on the beach or something. 01:29:34.260 --> 01:29:36.100 You know, guys are puking. Look at the man next 01:29:36.100 --> 01:29:38.300 to you. He's not going to live through it. That 01:29:38.300 --> 01:29:40.739 was the script, right? Remember that? It was 01:29:40.739 --> 01:29:43.199 look at the man next to you. He won't live. He's 01:29:43.199 --> 01:29:44.640 going to die. Two out of three of you are going 01:29:44.640 --> 01:29:47.359 to die. So look to your left. Look to your right. 01:29:47.520 --> 01:29:49.579 And feel bad for those two sons of bitches because 01:29:49.579 --> 01:29:50.819 they're not going to make it. You know, it was 01:29:50.819 --> 01:29:53.300 stuff like that. And Steve was just like, nope. 01:29:54.369 --> 01:29:57.489 Wow. No, these guys are puking. It's like the 01:29:57.489 --> 01:29:59.289 thing's up. You just hear, tick, tick, tick, 01:29:59.409 --> 01:30:00.850 tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. You know, 01:30:00.890 --> 01:30:02.569 and it's just like, and then just boom, and you're 01:30:02.569 --> 01:30:06.619 into it. Also, they did this incredible cinema 01:30:06.619 --> 01:30:09.880 -changing. Open the shutter. Open the shutter 01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:11.840 all the way. It took all the motion blur. They 01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.039 skipped the bleach process in developing the 01:30:14.039 --> 01:30:17.739 film. And I don't know if they're going to 22 01:30:17.739 --> 01:30:20.579 or 23 frames anywhere in there maybe, but I just 01:30:20.579 --> 01:30:22.039 remember. Maybe it's just the open shutters. 01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:25.600 It just means that instead of like the motion 01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:27.859 blur is what makes something that moves across 01:30:27.859 --> 01:30:29.539 the frame quickly. If you look at each frame, 01:30:29.739 --> 01:30:31.939 it's like a blurred thing. And when you roll 01:30:31.939 --> 01:30:33.699 those at 24 frames, it gives you. you this the 01:30:33.699 --> 01:30:36.779 illusion that it moves across fluidly and if 01:30:36.779 --> 01:30:38.920 you basically open the shut up so you get much 01:30:38.920 --> 01:30:41.579 more light each frame takes a super sharp picture 01:30:41.579 --> 01:30:43.819 and when you run those together like the piece 01:30:43.819 --> 01:30:46.890 of dust And so the mortar explosions are going, 01:30:47.010 --> 01:30:49.989 and you get that feeling that you're adrenalized 01:30:49.989 --> 01:30:51.170 and you're seeing, you know what I mean? And 01:30:51.170 --> 01:30:54.470 it's just, and nobody had ever done it. It's 01:30:54.470 --> 01:30:56.310 just the master of the thing. Yeah. He understood 01:30:56.310 --> 01:30:58.510 how to use the tools and combined with a great 01:30:58.510 --> 01:31:00.949 idea. And it's, that's just masterful. Like, 01:31:00.970 --> 01:31:02.770 that's just how you do it. There's nobody who 01:31:02.770 --> 01:31:04.569 directs movies who doesn't go, ah, it's billboard. 01:31:04.750 --> 01:31:08.869 Yeah. That's how you do it. It's, it's just like 01:31:08.869 --> 01:31:10.430 you say, one of those things, a guy that's passionate 01:31:10.430 --> 01:31:14.590 and also. you know, caring about something, you 01:31:14.590 --> 01:31:17.430 know, it's that with that much passion is kind 01:31:17.430 --> 01:31:19.550 of connected to greatness. Yeah. And it's, I 01:31:19.550 --> 01:31:22.369 think, why we love to see that, whether, you 01:31:22.369 --> 01:31:25.649 know, sports, fucking, you know, fighting or 01:31:25.649 --> 01:31:27.550 whatever it is, there's something that makes 01:31:27.550 --> 01:31:30.880 you kind of. love being alive, and also love 01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:33.439 that person where you go, fuck, when you see 01:31:33.439 --> 01:31:35.479 Michael Jordan, there was that whole movie that 01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:37.560 we did air, it was really all about what does 01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:40.119 it mean to be great? And how does it touch everybody 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:43.140 and change everybody and make people want to 01:31:43.140 --> 01:31:45.399 fucking improve their own lives because somebody's 01:31:45.399 --> 01:31:49.699 just better at that thing than anybody else in 01:31:49.699 --> 01:31:54.199 the world. It's transfixing. I mean, I find that 01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:58.060 really... Like, you know, people who are great 01:31:58.060 --> 01:32:00.460 at something and the mystery of like, well, what 01:32:00.460 --> 01:32:02.119 is that like? And what does that do to your life? 01:32:02.260 --> 01:32:03.800 And how did you get that way? And what does it 01:32:03.800 --> 01:32:06.479 take, you know? And what's the cost? Because 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:08.659 to truly be great at something, you have to kind 01:32:08.659 --> 01:32:11.979 of almost abandon everything. I've seen that 01:32:11.979 --> 01:32:15.720 in various ways, like in that kind of just empirical 01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:18.939 personal study. I haven't seen anybody who I 01:32:18.939 --> 01:32:21.020 think like qualifies for that who didn't also 01:32:21.020 --> 01:32:23.609 seem to be really suffering. 100%. And you're 01:32:23.609 --> 01:32:25.449 like, damn, you should be so happy. You're the 01:32:25.449 --> 01:32:27.430 greatest. And the interviewers are always like, 01:32:27.489 --> 01:32:29.729 how do you feel right now? And there's that sense 01:32:29.729 --> 01:32:31.710 that either it's never finished or it's never 01:32:31.710 --> 01:32:35.229 enough or they can't enjoy it. It's that line 01:32:35.229 --> 01:32:37.350 we put in air where it's like, you have to be 01:32:37.350 --> 01:32:39.869 that thing. You have to be that thing. It's kind 01:32:39.869 --> 01:32:43.569 of a burden, too, in a way. 100%. And I just 01:32:43.569 --> 01:32:45.949 see that. And that's why we want these heroes 01:32:45.949 --> 01:32:48.329 and people who are great to, I don't know, you 01:32:48.329 --> 01:32:50.720 know. have their life and have it all in hand. 01:32:50.819 --> 01:32:53.420 There's all this tragedy and all this stuff that 01:32:53.420 --> 01:32:57.560 happens too. Yeah. Like you said, there seems 01:32:57.560 --> 01:32:59.659 to be a real cost. Well, there's always a massive 01:32:59.659 --> 01:33:01.819 cost in personal relationships because there's 01:33:01.819 --> 01:33:03.800 no way you have the time for other things. And 01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:06.659 the obsession that you have to be the best at 01:33:06.659 --> 01:33:09.460 something, you have to abandon almost all your 01:33:09.460 --> 01:33:11.520 concern for everything else. You have to have 01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:14.279 this single -minded focus. And that comes with 01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:16.460 a cost for the rest of your life because you 01:33:16.460 --> 01:33:18.880 damage relationships. You feel like a piece of 01:33:18.880 --> 01:33:20.920 shit. And you see that up close and, like, that's 01:33:20.920 --> 01:33:23.140 not admirable. Right. You don't give a fuck about 01:33:23.140 --> 01:33:25.840 anybody else. no i do i just care about this 01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:28.760 more you know it's like so imagine that you're 01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:30.840 making the sacrifices and it's causing injury 01:33:30.840 --> 01:33:32.619 to people and you know it and you don't want 01:33:32.619 --> 01:33:34.640 to hurt them but you can't help it and you're 01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:37.420 getting rewarded for it you know it's It's complicated, 01:33:37.619 --> 01:33:39.859 yeah. It's crazy because you inspire all these 01:33:39.859 --> 01:33:41.960 people that don't know you, and you ruin all 01:33:41.960 --> 01:33:44.380 your relationships. Right, right, right. Maybe 01:33:44.380 --> 01:33:47.920 that's why I said don't meet your heroes. There's 01:33:47.920 --> 01:33:50.560 something to it, man. There really is. But it's 01:33:50.560 --> 01:33:54.720 just we all grow from it. There's a fuel to watching 01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:58.039 greatness. There's a thing that hits you and 01:33:58.039 --> 01:34:00.739 lights you up where you want to do more. You 01:34:00.739 --> 01:34:03.300 want to be better. Whatever it is that you can 01:34:03.300 --> 01:34:05.600 do, whatever it is you do do, you become more. 01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:08.159 Whether it's a great game, a winning touchdown, 01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:10.960 whether it's a great film, a great song. Yeah, 01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:12.760 it inspires you. Yeah, it lights you up. And 01:34:12.760 --> 01:34:15.939 it's the fuel that we all live off of that we 01:34:15.939 --> 01:34:19.520 consume to make our culture move forward. Yeah. 01:34:20.109 --> 01:34:22.109 You know, there's like a sacrificial element 01:34:22.109 --> 01:34:24.170 to it. The people that do it and we all feed 01:34:24.170 --> 01:34:26.069 off of it, you know, and it feels like, well, 01:34:26.109 --> 01:34:27.810 that's the person that doesn't get enough out 01:34:27.810 --> 01:34:31.250 of it. Right. Right. But in great filming, how 01:34:31.250 --> 01:34:34.109 many lives have been changed by decisions made 01:34:34.109 --> 01:34:37.090 after great films? Like when I was a kid, I think 01:34:37.090 --> 01:34:38.689 I was like seven or eight or something when Rocky 01:34:38.689 --> 01:34:42.500 came out. I saw it and immediately ran around 01:34:42.500 --> 01:34:45.619 the block. I've never won in my life. I was eating 01:34:45.619 --> 01:34:48.619 raw eggs. I was like, this is going to change 01:34:48.619 --> 01:34:52.159 my life. There's things that happen when you 01:34:52.159 --> 01:34:54.800 see something truly great that it makes you want 01:34:54.800 --> 01:34:57.859 to be better as a human being. I remember where 01:34:57.859 --> 01:35:00.319 I was when I saw Denzel Washington play Malcolm 01:35:00.319 --> 01:35:02.699 X. Went to the movies. Watched that movie. I 01:35:02.699 --> 01:35:05.439 remember leaving. I was 19. I'm thinking, I want 01:35:05.439 --> 01:35:08.340 to be a better man. I thought that in my mind, 01:35:08.399 --> 01:35:11.739 you know, because of what I had seen this actor 01:35:11.739 --> 01:35:14.479 do and the way, you know, that was the only real 01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:16.439 conscious thought I had. But I remember having 01:35:16.439 --> 01:35:19.720 it and kind of being surprised by it, you know. 01:35:19.939 --> 01:35:23.159 And it does. That shit can, you know, it's really 01:35:23.159 --> 01:35:26.199 touched me, you know, a lot of fucking people's 01:35:26.199 --> 01:35:29.520 work. And that's why you get that, like. You 01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:31.560 know, you see people and you want to let them 01:35:31.560 --> 01:35:34.520 know, you know what I mean, and tell them. I 01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:36.520 always think people come to me, oh, I love that 01:35:36.520 --> 01:35:37.520 movie. I always feel like, ah, you don't have 01:35:37.520 --> 01:35:38.800 to say that. You know what I mean? Right, right, 01:35:38.800 --> 01:35:42.060 right. It makes me kind of uncomfortable, and 01:35:42.060 --> 01:35:44.979 I don't ever put myself in with those figures 01:35:44.979 --> 01:35:48.439 who I think are like, oh, but there's these towering 01:35:48.439 --> 01:35:51.260 giants who have done this, you know. I don't 01:35:51.260 --> 01:35:56.479 know. I finally kind of arrived to a place where 01:35:56.479 --> 01:35:58.460 I was like, those uncomfortable, oh, I saw a 01:35:58.460 --> 01:36:00.399 good one thing. It made me want to. go out to 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:01.800 Hollywood and write a script, and I think, oh, 01:36:01.819 --> 01:36:03.760 shit, I don't know how to go. You know what I 01:36:03.760 --> 01:36:07.880 mean? Like, you all right, man? At a certain 01:36:07.880 --> 01:36:09.819 point, I figure, okay, you know what, whatever 01:36:09.819 --> 01:36:12.800 it is, like, great. Well, it's the cost of your 01:36:12.800 --> 01:36:15.079 fame, you know, that you have to, there's going 01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:16.340 to be a bunch of people that are going to come 01:36:16.340 --> 01:36:17.920 up to you and want to say those things to you. 01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:21.119 And, like, wanting them to say those things to 01:36:21.119 --> 01:36:25.239 you is the opposite of the mindset that you need 01:36:25.239 --> 01:36:27.380 to make those things. Right, exactly. Which is, 01:36:27.460 --> 01:36:30.340 it's so counterintuitive. Like once you become 01:36:30.340 --> 01:36:31.840 really successful and you make a bunch of great 01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:33.479 things, it's going to be awesome having all these 01:36:33.479 --> 01:36:35.359 people come up to you like, no, no, no. I'm doing 01:36:35.359 --> 01:36:37.600 something else right now. And I can't be all 01:36:37.600 --> 01:36:39.560 wrapped up in the fact that I'm changing your 01:36:39.560 --> 01:36:42.500 fucking life. And also I can't be satisfied or 01:36:42.500 --> 01:36:44.460 take any fucking joy in that because I don't 01:36:44.460 --> 01:36:46.300 think I'm good enough yet. I need to fucking, 01:36:46.460 --> 01:36:47.800 you know what I mean? Right. Never satisfied. 01:36:48.100 --> 01:36:51.579 Yeah. You can't. And that's the darkness of trying 01:36:51.579 --> 01:36:53.239 to do something great. You'll never be satisfied. 01:36:53.420 --> 01:36:55.479 You see it in a lot of the fighters, the same 01:36:55.479 --> 01:36:57.500 kind of thing, the great, great fighters. Well, 01:36:57.560 --> 01:36:59.840 also fighters have. a very small window of greatness. 01:37:00.479 --> 01:37:02.859 There's only like a certain amount of years where 01:37:02.859 --> 01:37:05.779 you can burn the RPMs at the red line. And then 01:37:05.779 --> 01:37:08.319 eventually the knees go, the back goes. Is it 01:37:08.319 --> 01:37:10.720 earlier than other sports? It must be. Yes. I 01:37:10.720 --> 01:37:13.579 think so. Because like Tom Brady is still elite. 01:37:13.699 --> 01:37:15.479 I bet he could probably play football right now. 01:37:15.699 --> 01:37:17.819 I bet he, you know, how old is Tom now? He's 01:37:17.819 --> 01:37:21.039 probably 47 or 8 now probably. I bet he could 01:37:21.039 --> 01:37:23.439 still play. Yeah, I mean, but that's a, yeah, 01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:25.340 I mean, that's a very specific skill position 01:37:25.340 --> 01:37:27.989 and the way he played it. Right. Running back, 01:37:28.130 --> 01:37:31.770 no. Right, right. Cornerback. The elite levels 01:37:31.770 --> 01:37:35.090 of MMA, especially with USADA testing and now 01:37:35.090 --> 01:37:39.970 drug -free sport testing, when they are... Making 01:37:39.970 --> 01:37:42.289 sure that people aren't on testosterone and growth 01:37:42.289 --> 01:37:43.710 hormone and all these different things. Like, 01:37:43.729 --> 01:37:46.369 you have nine years. You have nine years at peak 01:37:46.369 --> 01:37:49.189 performance. That's legitimate. How long has 01:37:49.189 --> 01:37:51.369 Jon Jones been going? Jon Jones is a freak of 01:37:51.369 --> 01:37:54.229 all freaks. Because Jon Jones beat Daniel Cormier 01:37:54.229 --> 01:37:56.170 when he was on Coke. That was one of the funniest 01:37:56.170 --> 01:37:58.949 things he said in the press conference for the 01:37:58.949 --> 01:38:00.930 rematch. Daniel was talking shit. He goes, I 01:38:00.930 --> 01:38:09.029 beat you when I was on Coke. I mean, he was getting 01:38:09.029 --> 01:38:13.229 arrested. He was partying. When he fought Gustafsson, 01:38:13.350 --> 01:38:16.829 he beat Gustafsson, and he didn't train at all. 01:38:17.189 --> 01:38:19.270 I talked to his trainer. He's like, he didn't 01:38:19.270 --> 01:38:20.989 even show up at the gym. He was fucking never 01:38:20.989 --> 01:38:23.029 there. He was never training. He could just show 01:38:23.029 --> 01:38:25.069 up and beat everybody's ass. I saw a thing on 01:38:25.069 --> 01:38:27.649 my Instagram feed of a fighter, and I don't know 01:38:27.649 --> 01:38:30.649 who it was, but he was a heavyweight. He goes, 01:38:30.750 --> 01:38:33.909 I had the chance to spar with Jon Jones, to work 01:38:33.909 --> 01:38:38.010 with Jon Jones. And he goes, I knew about it 01:38:38.010 --> 01:38:40.289 months ahead of time. He goes, I got my nutrition. 01:38:40.569 --> 01:38:43.510 Everything was absolutely flawless. I got my 01:38:43.510 --> 01:38:45.869 sleep. Everything was on. He goes, I show up 01:38:45.869 --> 01:38:48.069 at the gym that morning. He goes, it's me and 01:38:48.069 --> 01:38:51.159 five other guys. He goes, he comes in. I think 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:52.979 he went to sleep at 4 in the morning or something. 01:38:53.060 --> 01:38:55.399 He was out all night. And he goes, he ran through 01:38:55.399 --> 01:38:57.300 all six of us. That's my buddy Brennan Schaub. 01:38:57.319 --> 01:38:59.640 Is that who it was? Okay, yeah. It was the funniest 01:38:59.640 --> 01:39:03.260 story. And he goes, and then I just knew. There's 01:39:03.260 --> 01:39:06.520 levels. That's a level. But imagine being that 01:39:06.520 --> 01:39:10.680 elite and realizing there's another level. Yeah. 01:39:10.779 --> 01:39:13.039 Oh yeah. Brendan was a top 10 heavyweight and 01:39:13.039 --> 01:39:15.140 John wasn't even a heavyweight. John was a light 01:39:15.140 --> 01:39:17.920 heavyweight. It was a lower weight class and 01:39:17.920 --> 01:39:20.359 he just beat everybody's ass. And he said, this 01:39:20.359 --> 01:39:27.819 is his warmup. I mean, he has a unique aptitude 01:39:27.819 --> 01:39:31.079 for MMA, but also he had two brothers that were 01:39:31.079 --> 01:39:33.000 super athletes. Yeah, played for the Patriots. 01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:35.600 And Arthur. And so these guys are super athletes. 01:39:35.819 --> 01:39:37.199 And so they're beating the shit out of each other 01:39:37.199 --> 01:39:40.100 all the time. So they're like constantly in competition 01:39:40.100 --> 01:39:43.420 with elite athletes from the time he was a child. 01:39:43.600 --> 01:39:47.479 So he was just so tuned into competition and 01:39:47.479 --> 01:39:51.060 he was so intelligent. Like his fight IQ was. 01:39:51.180 --> 01:39:53.300 above and beyond everyone's. And he would study 01:39:53.300 --> 01:39:57.520 tape meticulously. Well, that spinning kick that 01:39:57.520 --> 01:40:01.020 he did. Stipe Miocic. Stipe, where he said he, 01:40:01.140 --> 01:40:04.039 and I think he thanked his taekwondo coach, and 01:40:04.039 --> 01:40:06.579 he said he had been working on this one specific 01:40:06.579 --> 01:40:09.600 kick from both sides because of something he 01:40:09.600 --> 01:40:13.739 saw on the tape. And he got it off and hit this 01:40:13.739 --> 01:40:18.020 guy so. Hard. Not even on his liver side. He 01:40:18.020 --> 01:40:20.399 hit him on the other side, and you see it shudder 01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:22.859 through his entire, like, organ structure. Yeah, 01:40:22.960 --> 01:40:26.220 his heel was deep into his body cavity. It was 01:40:26.220 --> 01:40:33.640 so gnarly. But he just practiced this one specific... 01:40:34.199 --> 01:40:36.300 And he was like, and he even said, he goes, it 01:40:36.300 --> 01:40:39.279 is a devastating shot. Like, there's not a human 01:40:39.279 --> 01:40:41.199 being who could take that. No, it's like getting 01:40:41.199 --> 01:40:44.199 hit by a car. Yeah. But getting hit by a car 01:40:44.199 --> 01:40:46.180 in one spot on your body, you know what I mean? 01:40:46.180 --> 01:40:48.760 The size of a foot, the size of a 13 foot. Oh, 01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:50.720 yeah, here it is. Watch this. He sets him up. 01:40:51.039 --> 01:40:54.899 Boom. It's just. It's like, yeah, no, it's over, 01:40:55.100 --> 01:40:57.199 it's over, it's over. And this is John moving 01:40:57.199 --> 01:40:59.399 up to heavyweight because light heavyweight wasn't 01:40:59.399 --> 01:41:01.539 a challenge anymore. He decided to become a two 01:41:01.539 --> 01:41:03.779 -division champion. I mean, John was a freak. 01:41:03.939 --> 01:41:06.140 You see it running through. And by the way, that 01:41:06.140 --> 01:41:08.699 was almost a little bit glancing because he caught 01:41:08.699 --> 01:41:11.000 him with a bent leg. Right, right. It wasn't 01:41:11.000 --> 01:41:13.800 even fully extended, which, you know. was even 01:41:13.800 --> 01:41:16.479 more devastating. But John realized that as a 01:41:16.479 --> 01:41:18.520 heavyweight, he didn't have the power that he 01:41:18.520 --> 01:41:20.140 had at light heavyweight. And so he said, the 01:41:20.140 --> 01:41:22.520 most powerful kick is a spinning back kick. So 01:41:22.520 --> 01:41:24.300 I'm just gonna work on that kick over and over 01:41:24.300 --> 01:41:26.380 again, because that's the one tool that I have 01:41:26.380 --> 01:41:27.960 that can knock a heavyweight out with one shot. 01:41:28.039 --> 01:41:30.279 Wow, okay. That's just intelligence. It's not 01:41:30.279 --> 01:41:32.039 just the physicals, but he's also like a genius. 01:41:32.260 --> 01:41:35.399 Oh, he's a genius. Well, he's also like... He's 01:41:35.399 --> 01:41:37.960 the most meticulous when it comes to game planning 01:41:37.960 --> 01:41:39.979 and study. He will not take a short notice fight. 01:41:40.140 --> 01:41:42.859 Even a guy that he can fucking beat any day of 01:41:42.859 --> 01:41:44.199 the week. You can wake him up at 3 o 'clock in 01:41:44.199 --> 01:41:45.840 the morning. He can fuck that guy up. He will 01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:48.380 not take that fight unless he gets a full training 01:41:48.380 --> 01:41:51.520 camp to prepare for that fight. Well, it's just 01:41:51.520 --> 01:41:55.039 greatness. But John's troubled. John's been arrested 01:41:55.039 --> 01:41:57.939 a bunch of times and DUIs and all kinds of crazy 01:41:57.939 --> 01:42:03.420 shit. He's a wild fella. And that pursuit of 01:42:03.420 --> 01:42:05.840 greatness, I'm sure, has cost him a lot of shit 01:42:05.840 --> 01:42:10.020 in his personal life. But when he knocks D -Pay 01:42:10.020 --> 01:42:11.640 out and then did the Trump dance in front of 01:42:11.640 --> 01:42:14.720 the whole world, for that moment, he's on top 01:42:14.720 --> 01:42:18.699 of the world. Again, it's like the same thing. 01:42:18.920 --> 01:42:22.119 As soon as you get back, like, what's next? You 01:42:22.119 --> 01:42:24.420 know? There's another challenge. It doesn't matter 01:42:24.420 --> 01:42:26.720 how many people love you now. Like, it's not 01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:29.020 good enough. There's someone else looming. You 01:42:29.020 --> 01:42:31.140 got to beat this guy. That seems like a kind 01:42:31.140 --> 01:42:33.640 of an agonizing thing to both have the, like, 01:42:33.640 --> 01:42:36.479 complete compulsion to have to get to the next 01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:39.500 level. And the next level keeps fucking moving 01:42:39.500 --> 01:42:42.750 the goalposts. I'll never forget. I interviewed 01:42:42.750 --> 01:42:45.609 Matt Hughes after he lost to BJ Penn. He lost 01:42:45.609 --> 01:42:48.390 the welterweight title to BJ Penn. And I'm interviewing 01:42:48.390 --> 01:42:50.350 him inside the Octagon. He said, I'm going to 01:42:50.350 --> 01:42:52.029 be honest with you. It was actually a relief. 01:42:52.430 --> 01:42:54.949 And he goes, the pressure of being the champion 01:42:54.949 --> 01:42:58.270 and having someone chasing you for so ever in 01:42:58.270 --> 01:43:00.310 the whole world chasing you. He goes, I'm going 01:43:00.310 --> 01:43:01.710 to be honest. I thought it was an incredibly 01:43:01.710 --> 01:43:06.090 brave moment for a guy to say that who is, you 01:43:06.090 --> 01:43:08.579 know, just this fucking. amazing human being 01:43:08.579 --> 01:43:11.579 this warrior to say i just got to be honest it's 01:43:11.579 --> 01:43:13.960 a relief losing my title feels like a relief 01:43:13.960 --> 01:43:19.199 and i was like wow like that that is so so brave 01:43:19.199 --> 01:43:21.939 to be that honest in front of the because everybody's 01:43:21.939 --> 01:43:23.579 like you just got your ass kicked it's like i'm 01:43:23.579 --> 01:43:26.680 this is a relief you know i took a burden off 01:43:26.680 --> 01:43:28.880 my back i'll be back i'm gonna regroup but i 01:43:28.880 --> 01:43:32.140 needed that i needed to just to step off the 01:43:32.140 --> 01:43:33.760 fucking top of the hill for a little while. You 01:43:33.760 --> 01:43:35.279 get a breath. Jesus Christ. You've got to be 01:43:35.279 --> 01:43:37.680 like a great, actually relieved to be able to 01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:39.319 say something like that. It's kind of a gift. 01:43:39.420 --> 01:43:41.220 Instead of feeling like you've got to hide or 01:43:41.220 --> 01:43:43.500 pretend it and go, yeah, I'm relieved. It was 01:43:43.500 --> 01:43:46.140 a lot to carry. Well, the thing about fighting 01:43:46.140 --> 01:43:48.739 is everything you try to hide gets exposed. You're 01:43:48.739 --> 01:43:51.279 exposed completely during camp because they're 01:43:51.279 --> 01:43:54.420 doing these round, well, they take like. Sorry, 01:43:54.420 --> 01:43:57.680 I was here. Yeah, yeah, smoke up. They're taking 01:43:57.680 --> 01:44:02.260 like, you know, five guys. and they're rotating 01:44:02.260 --> 01:44:04.659 them in with you. So you're doing five rounds 01:44:04.659 --> 01:44:07.859 with fresh guys. So you've got one guy who is 01:44:07.859 --> 01:44:10.899 fucking warmed up, getting ready for you, and 01:44:10.899 --> 01:44:12.659 then you're fucking out of breath. They'll give 01:44:12.659 --> 01:44:14.939 you a 30 -second break instead of a minute, and 01:44:14.939 --> 01:44:16.859 then they're throwing in these monsters, and 01:44:16.859 --> 01:44:19.579 you're exposed. You're getting beat in training. 01:44:19.659 --> 01:44:21.300 You're getting smothered in training. You're 01:44:21.300 --> 01:44:25.319 exhausted. You're always reaching your limits 01:44:25.319 --> 01:44:27.020 because the only way to surpass those limits 01:44:27.020 --> 01:44:29.300 is to hit them. You've got to hit them, and then 01:44:29.300 --> 01:44:30.689 they've got to— figure out where that limit is 01:44:30.689 --> 01:44:32.569 and okay next week we're going to do one extra 01:44:32.569 --> 01:44:34.149 round we're going to do this we're going to do 01:44:34.149 --> 01:44:35.449 that we're going to do more strength and conditioning 01:44:35.449 --> 01:44:37.770 we're going to push you past wherever your capacity 01:44:37.770 --> 01:44:40.569 is right now so you're always breaking you're 01:44:40.569 --> 01:44:42.949 always you're always at the point where you can 01:44:42.949 --> 01:44:45.609 do no more because it's the only way to and you 01:44:45.609 --> 01:44:47.890 can only maintain that like the condition that 01:44:47.890 --> 01:44:49.909 they get in when they step into the octagon it's 01:44:49.909 --> 01:44:52.289 not possible to maintain that no right right 01:44:52.289 --> 01:44:54.329 you can only get you have to aim at that one 01:44:54.329 --> 01:44:57.069 moment and yeah yeah yeah you have to peak and 01:44:57.069 --> 01:44:59.390 then if you fuck up and oh overtrained which 01:44:59.390 --> 01:45:00.850 a lot of those guys do just because they're such 01:45:00.850 --> 01:45:03.430 savages they never want to leave the gym then 01:45:03.430 --> 01:45:05.310 they don't peak right and then they come in and 01:45:05.310 --> 01:45:07.029 they're exhausted they didn't recover properly 01:45:07.029 --> 01:45:08.850 and then in between rounds they're too tired 01:45:08.850 --> 01:45:10.810 and they can't go out for the next round they're 01:45:10.810 --> 01:45:14.180 too beat up that happens too I imagine that level 01:45:14.180 --> 01:45:16.539 of exhaustion has to be just insane when you 01:45:16.539 --> 01:45:20.039 overtrain in an actual championship. And you 01:45:20.039 --> 01:45:24.140 realize you can't bounce back, and this guy is 01:45:24.140 --> 01:45:26.699 fucking blasting your legs with kicks and hitting 01:45:26.699 --> 01:45:28.439 you with punches, and you can't get out of the 01:45:28.439 --> 01:45:32.039 way anymore. Who was it? Was it Khabib who said 01:45:32.039 --> 01:45:35.859 that they should just do 25 minutes? Oh, a lot 01:45:35.859 --> 01:45:41.220 of people said that. I mean, that's a— Songs 01:45:41.220 --> 01:45:43.220 are playing? What's going on? I must have just 01:45:43.220 --> 01:45:45.579 hit my fucking technology. The Teske brothers 01:45:45.579 --> 01:45:47.899 playing in my pocket. That's hilarious. Sorry 01:45:47.899 --> 01:45:50.619 about that. Well, Hoist Gracie always said that. 01:45:50.739 --> 01:45:52.659 Like, that was how he fought in the early days. 01:45:52.819 --> 01:45:54.979 They just straight 25 minutes. Because he was 01:45:54.979 --> 01:45:57.079 like, look, he goes, if we're on the ground, 01:45:57.199 --> 01:45:59.100 he goes, I don't want them to stand back up again 01:45:59.100 --> 01:46:01.300 and go in between rounds. And he goes, I need 01:46:01.300 --> 01:46:03.359 time to cook them. That's what he would say. 01:46:03.479 --> 01:46:06.359 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what jujitsu is all 01:46:06.359 --> 01:46:09.060 about. Jujitsu is all about staying one step 01:46:09.060 --> 01:46:11.720 ahead of you until you become exhausted and, 01:46:11.760 --> 01:46:13.680 you know, and then they eventually finish you. 01:46:13.960 --> 01:46:16.500 Like a, like a, you're just fucking constricted. 01:46:16.500 --> 01:46:20.159 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the real, that's, but 01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:22.380 you know, there's this balance of like making 01:46:22.380 --> 01:46:27.260 it. for people to watch. I've been a proponent 01:46:27.260 --> 01:46:29.920 of no stand -ups. Don't ever stand anybody up. 01:46:29.939 --> 01:46:31.920 When a guy takes you down, you get an advantage 01:46:31.920 --> 01:46:33.460 at the beginning of the round anyway because 01:46:33.460 --> 01:46:35.739 a striker gets to be standing up when you didn't 01:46:35.739 --> 01:46:38.000 earn it. So you should never get stood up in 01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:39.460 a fight. I don't care if the guy's doing nothing. 01:46:39.619 --> 01:46:41.399 If he's holding you down and you can't get up, 01:46:41.520 --> 01:46:43.159 that's how it should be. It's more realistic, 01:46:43.319 --> 01:46:46.119 but it's the balance of it being a sport. People 01:46:46.119 --> 01:46:48.979 want to watch. Yeah, because when people grab 01:46:48.979 --> 01:46:50.119 someone and take them to the ground and nothing 01:46:50.119 --> 01:46:52.460 happens, people go, boo. You hear it in the audience. 01:46:52.489 --> 01:46:54.470 and then the referee gets a little motivated 01:46:54.470 --> 01:46:56.470 and he stands people up, and I'm always like, 01:46:56.550 --> 01:46:59.189 ah, don't stand them up. I never thought of it 01:46:59.189 --> 01:47:00.729 that way, that the beginning of the round starts 01:47:00.729 --> 01:47:03.369 to the advantage of the striker. Always, always, 01:47:03.369 --> 01:47:05.590 always. You're in a position you didn't earn. 01:47:05.810 --> 01:47:08.189 You never got back up. I think they should put 01:47:08.189 --> 01:47:09.590 them right back to where they were at the end 01:47:09.590 --> 01:47:11.310 of the round because it's one fight. It's not 01:47:11.310 --> 01:47:13.989 five fights. So if you start it standing up at 01:47:13.989 --> 01:47:15.609 the beginning of each round, that's a new fight. 01:47:16.140 --> 01:47:18.979 Yeah, right. In a way. What you're pitching, 01:47:19.199 --> 01:47:21.800 like, how quickly would the UFC go out of business? 01:47:21.899 --> 01:47:24.420 Real quick. 30 seconds, they're on the ground, 01:47:24.460 --> 01:47:27.279 and then it's 24 and a half minutes. Dude, I'm 01:47:27.279 --> 01:47:30.479 a terrible businessman. I would give the fighters 01:47:30.479 --> 01:47:33.619 more money. I would fuck up the whole business 01:47:33.619 --> 01:47:36.750 model. I would get rid of the cage. I would have 01:47:36.750 --> 01:47:38.449 them all fight in a basketball court and just 01:47:38.449 --> 01:47:40.729 put mats on the ground in the basketball court. 01:47:40.930 --> 01:47:42.810 I don't think you should have a cage. I think 01:47:42.810 --> 01:47:45.069 the cage gets in the way. It becomes a way to 01:47:45.069 --> 01:47:47.210 get back up because you press your back up against 01:47:47.210 --> 01:47:49.409 the cage. You can use it to stand back up again. 01:47:49.529 --> 01:47:51.649 And you're in the middle of the center of a mat. 01:47:51.829 --> 01:47:54.029 It's very difficult to get back up, and that's 01:47:54.029 --> 01:47:57.470 realistic. You're using a foreign object to help 01:47:57.470 --> 01:48:01.489 you perform. But there's the whole macho thing 01:48:01.489 --> 01:48:03.770 about people fighting in a cage, and it's like 01:48:03.770 --> 01:48:08.810 they lock you in there. Yeah. It's just, but 01:48:08.810 --> 01:48:12.539 I mean, in terms of. like inspirational performances 01:48:12.539 --> 01:48:15.319 and things that you would you see like the human 01:48:15.319 --> 01:48:18.720 spirit elevated to the the highest possible place 01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:22.680 when two very skilled men or women are Fighting 01:48:22.680 --> 01:48:25.279 in a cage where they prepared for this for three 01:48:25.279 --> 01:48:27.600 fucking months and then you know the referees 01:48:27.600 --> 01:48:30.500 like are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go and 01:48:30.500 --> 01:48:34.739 it's like that moment like is it's not not like 01:48:34.739 --> 01:48:36.859 anything else in all sports I think that's the 01:48:36.859 --> 01:48:39.079 moment that like people show up for Yeah. Because 01:48:39.079 --> 01:48:40.659 they build the intensity. It's the same with, 01:48:40.720 --> 01:48:42.380 like, the old Tyson fights or whatever. Oh, yeah. 01:48:42.579 --> 01:48:45.100 Like, now it's going to happen. Yeah. And you 01:48:45.100 --> 01:48:48.100 can't help but have that feeling once it, you 01:48:48.100 --> 01:48:50.000 know. And, yeah, some fights end up being disappointing, 01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:53.100 whatever, but that moment is always there. Well, 01:48:53.100 --> 01:48:55.300 Tyson was a crazy example of what we were talking 01:48:55.300 --> 01:48:57.340 about with greatness because, like, you could 01:48:57.340 --> 01:48:59.680 dedicate your whole life. You could fucking get 01:48:59.680 --> 01:49:01.579 up in the morning at the right time. You could 01:49:01.579 --> 01:49:03.340 eat all the right foods. You could do all the 01:49:03.340 --> 01:49:05.460 right training. But then you see that fucking 01:49:05.460 --> 01:49:09.340 guy. You're like, oh, no. There's nothing I can 01:49:09.340 --> 01:49:12.520 do. I have no chance. You know, by looking at 01:49:12.520 --> 01:49:14.699 him, so he had just a look in his eye. It was 01:49:14.699 --> 01:49:16.220 one of the only fighters where you just see the 01:49:16.220 --> 01:49:18.939 other guy was scared. Usually they at least hold 01:49:18.939 --> 01:49:20.340 themselves together where they come off like, 01:49:20.479 --> 01:49:22.300 oh, I don't know, this guy looks pretty tough. 01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:24.920 Guys would fight Tyson and just – it would start 01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:27.239 and they'd feel that moment too. Oh, shit. They're 01:49:27.239 --> 01:49:29.720 letting this tiger out and here he comes. And 01:49:29.720 --> 01:49:31.460 it was like – Well, we're old enough to remember 01:49:31.460 --> 01:49:33.460 when he was in his prime and those fights were 01:49:33.460 --> 01:49:35.840 like executions. You didn't want to pay for the 01:49:35.840 --> 01:49:38.140 pay -per -view because they were so fast. I swear. 01:49:38.319 --> 01:49:41.039 I mean, Jamie might be able to prove me wrong, 01:49:41.100 --> 01:49:43.760 but I'm pretty sure that they cut to Alex Stewart 01:49:43.760 --> 01:49:45.779 and they cut to his wife and she was crying. 01:49:47.020 --> 01:49:48.979 And this is when they're coming to the center 01:49:48.979 --> 01:49:50.800 of the ring. Oh, my God. But by the way, for 01:49:50.800 --> 01:49:53.260 good reason. This man might kill my husband. 01:49:53.359 --> 01:49:55.100 Right. You know what I mean? We're certainly 01:49:55.100 --> 01:49:57.180 going to beat the fuck out of him. And she knows 01:49:57.180 --> 01:49:59.199 it. And the world knows it. And the guys were 01:49:59.199 --> 01:50:00.560 ready to quit. Remember that dude, Hurricane 01:50:00.560 --> 01:50:03.479 or whatever? White kid who fought him? He's McKinley 01:50:03.479 --> 01:50:05.119 when he came in. His guy couldn't wait to throw 01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:07.659 the towel in. He had it ready. You know, he was 01:50:07.659 --> 01:50:09.220 ready to go. All right, that's it. The bell rings. 01:50:09.279 --> 01:50:11.140 He picks up the towel. You got one job. Save 01:50:11.140 --> 01:50:13.460 your guy's life. You know what I mean? McKinley's 01:50:13.460 --> 01:50:15.460 fucked up now, too. When you hear him talk, it's 01:50:15.460 --> 01:50:17.500 rough. It's rough to hear. Oh, really? Yeah, 01:50:17.520 --> 01:50:19.359 I saw him get interviewed recently. That's the 01:50:19.359 --> 01:50:22.260 dark side of the sport. MMA and of fighting. 01:50:22.479 --> 01:50:25.340 It was a CTE. I had Johnny Knoxville on here 01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:27.939 yesterday, and Johnny Knoxville was knocked unconscious 01:50:27.939 --> 01:50:30.859 16 times. Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's what I said. 01:50:31.039 --> 01:50:33.960 And I'm like, holy shit, man. And he seems normal. 01:50:34.239 --> 01:50:36.979 He doesn't seem like he's got brain damage. Now, 01:50:36.979 --> 01:50:39.079 when you're talking to guys and you know they 01:50:39.079 --> 01:50:41.260 have brain damage, they're slurring their words 01:50:41.260 --> 01:50:44.439 and they're still fighting. Their words all mumble 01:50:44.439 --> 01:50:47.539 together. You have no idea how much they're struggling. 01:50:47.819 --> 01:50:50.850 And they're going to be struggling in a... downhill 01:50:50.850 --> 01:50:52.430 slope for the rest of their life. It's not going 01:50:52.430 --> 01:50:54.569 to get better. It's going to get way worse. Because 01:50:54.569 --> 01:50:57.170 the real brain damage occurs like 10 years after 01:50:57.170 --> 01:50:59.550 the injuries. That's when it really sets in. 01:50:59.590 --> 01:51:02.470 It just keeps getting worse. I mean, there's 01:51:02.470 --> 01:51:06.289 some therapies that they can do now. They do, 01:51:06.590 --> 01:51:09.609 and Knoxville did some of it, like this magnetic 01:51:09.609 --> 01:51:12.390 therapy that they do that re -stimulates neuron 01:51:12.390 --> 01:51:17.050 growth. And oddly enough, mushrooms, like psilocybin 01:51:17.050 --> 01:51:18.510 has been shown to regenerate. Mushrooms all of 01:51:18.510 --> 01:51:20.310 a sudden cure a whole bunch of shit. I know. 01:51:20.350 --> 01:51:23.930 Well, probably always has. All of a sudden they're 01:51:23.930 --> 01:51:26.649 acknowledging it. Well, one of the things that's 01:51:26.649 --> 01:51:28.189 opening the doors for them to acknowledge it 01:51:28.189 --> 01:51:30.710 is soldiers because it's always been kind of 01:51:30.710 --> 01:51:34.050 like a left -wing thing to be into psychedelics. 01:51:34.109 --> 01:51:36.829 But all these soldiers are coming back with PTSD 01:51:36.829 --> 01:51:41.460 and drug addiction and a lot of CTE from – Bombs 01:51:41.460 --> 01:51:44.340 blowing up and IEDs and concussions. And the 01:51:44.340 --> 01:51:46.140 only thing that's helping them is psychedelics. 01:51:46.199 --> 01:51:49.020 So it's kind of like in Texas, former Governor 01:51:49.020 --> 01:51:51.359 Rick Perry has started the Ibogaine Initiative. 01:51:51.579 --> 01:51:54.039 So they're using Ibogaine to help all of these 01:51:54.039 --> 01:51:57.039 different soldiers, which is ironically the drug 01:51:57.039 --> 01:51:59.619 that Hunter S. Thompson claimed Ed Muskie was 01:51:59.619 --> 01:52:01.279 on when he was running for president. Oh, really? 01:52:01.399 --> 01:52:04.659 Yeah. Remember when he sank Ed Muskie? What is 01:52:04.659 --> 01:52:07.579 Ibogaine? It's from the aboga tree. And it is 01:52:07.579 --> 01:52:09.819 a psychedelic that is in no way recreational. 01:52:10.350 --> 01:52:13.170 It is a very difficult experience. It's not fun 01:52:13.170 --> 01:52:16.310 for anybody. It's like a 24 -hour trip. I haven't 01:52:16.310 --> 01:52:17.970 done it, but my friends that have done it say 01:52:17.970 --> 01:52:20.569 that it's basically like you see your entire 01:52:20.569 --> 01:52:24.109 life play out before you. You see where all your 01:52:24.109 --> 01:52:26.949 problems come from. You see where all of your 01:52:26.949 --> 01:52:30.229 emotional hitches are. Jesus. Yeah, and with 01:52:30.229 --> 01:52:33.949 addictions, it has an 80%, I think it's 84%, 01:52:33.949 --> 01:52:37.050 with one treatment, they quit whatever they're 01:52:37.050 --> 01:52:39.470 hooked on. What? Not only that, it rewires the... 01:52:39.560 --> 01:52:42.560 brain. So the physical pathways to addiction, 01:52:42.779 --> 01:52:44.779 like someone who's addicted to opiates, gone, 01:52:45.039 --> 01:52:47.539 completely severed. So you literally don't have 01:52:47.539 --> 01:52:50.159 a physical addiction to opiates anymore. So with 01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:52.640 one treatment, 80 plus percent of people. That's 01:52:52.640 --> 01:52:54.359 incredible. With two treatments, it's in the 01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:57.439 90s. That's amazing. It's amazing. And it's been 01:52:57.439 --> 01:53:00.170 illegal. you know, since like 1970 in this country, 01:53:00.310 --> 01:53:01.729 the sweeping psychedelics. You say Rick Perry 01:53:01.729 --> 01:53:03.869 has like a clinic or whatever? Well, Rick Perry, 01:53:04.050 --> 01:53:06.909 because he's worked with soldiers and because 01:53:06.909 --> 01:53:08.890 he's worked with a lot of veterans that, you 01:53:08.890 --> 01:53:10.989 know, and he's a very compassionate and intelligent 01:53:10.989 --> 01:53:13.430 man. He realized like, okay, maybe I'm wrong 01:53:13.430 --> 01:53:16.569 about all this psychedelic stuff. And so he started 01:53:16.569 --> 01:53:18.470 getting behind this Ibogaine initiative. They 01:53:18.470 --> 01:53:20.850 passed it in Texas and now they're doing it with 01:53:20.850 --> 01:53:22.369 soldiers and they're going to do it with police 01:53:22.369 --> 01:53:24.909 officers. And I mean, police officers experience 01:53:24.909 --> 01:53:27.449 more PTSD. Like I have a good friend who, was 01:53:27.449 --> 01:53:29.890 a cop in austin and he said and he was also in 01:53:29.890 --> 01:53:32.189 the military and he said what i saw in the military 01:53:32.189 --> 01:53:34.529 was nothing compared to what i saw as a police 01:53:34.529 --> 01:53:37.069 officer really he goes i was seeing death and 01:53:37.069 --> 01:53:40.090 violence on a daily basis he goes when you're 01:53:40.090 --> 01:53:42.130 deployed he goes yeah you're good you're gonna 01:53:42.130 --> 01:53:43.689 see some horrible shit but you're gonna see some 01:53:43.689 --> 01:53:46.329 horrible shit mixed in you know over a course 01:53:46.329 --> 01:53:49.310 of time where you know you go out and things 01:53:49.310 --> 01:53:52.550 go live it goes like Every day. Every day you're 01:53:52.550 --> 01:53:54.590 going directly to somebody who's having the worst 01:53:54.590 --> 01:53:56.130 moment of their life. And every day you're pulling 01:53:56.130 --> 01:53:57.850 someone over and they might shoot you. Like you 01:53:57.850 --> 01:54:01.109 have no idea. You're pulling up to tinted windows. 01:54:01.390 --> 01:54:03.449 You don't know what the fuck is going on. You're 01:54:03.449 --> 01:54:06.270 running the plate. The license is expired. You 01:54:06.270 --> 01:54:08.890 have no idea who's in the car. You don't know 01:54:08.890 --> 01:54:11.590 anything. And you've seen all the videos. We've 01:54:11.590 --> 01:54:13.670 all seen videos of cops getting shot down like 01:54:13.670 --> 01:54:15.369 when they're pulling over a car. We've all seen 01:54:15.369 --> 01:54:17.569 it. And so these guys are living with this fucking 01:54:17.569 --> 01:54:20.619 PTSD all the time. And then they have to. live 01:54:20.619 --> 01:54:22.960 in real life. They're supposed to go home and 01:54:22.960 --> 01:54:24.819 they're supposed to just be a normal dad and 01:54:24.819 --> 01:54:27.560 a normal neighbor. And their fucking head is 01:54:27.560 --> 01:54:31.279 just a hurricane of chaos. And Ibogaine has been 01:54:31.279 --> 01:54:33.760 very beneficial for those people to just sort 01:54:33.760 --> 01:54:37.880 of come down and try to find the root of all 01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:41.119 this stuff and get them off pills and get them 01:54:41.119 --> 01:54:43.659 on the straight. That's great. It's amazing. 01:54:43.939 --> 01:54:45.800 I don't know why we got on the mushrooms. Well, 01:54:45.920 --> 01:54:50.659 Ibogaine, because... During the presidential 01:54:50.659 --> 01:54:54.020 elections, he started spreading these rumors. 01:54:54.279 --> 01:54:58.020 And it's in the documentary. What is that documentary? 01:54:58.279 --> 01:55:02.039 Is it Fear and Loathing? Gonzo. Gonzo. That's 01:55:02.039 --> 01:55:03.819 right. In that documentary, Gonzo, he talks about 01:55:03.819 --> 01:55:05.439 it. So he's getting interviewed by Dick Cavett. 01:55:05.539 --> 01:55:08.920 And he goes, yeah, there was a rumor running 01:55:08.920 --> 01:55:11.399 around that Ed Muskie was on Ibogaine. And I 01:55:11.399 --> 01:55:17.980 knew about it because I started that rumor. I 01:55:17.980 --> 01:55:20.600 sold it to him. So the guy completely cracked. 01:55:20.979 --> 01:55:23.600 So this guy was like a frontrunner for the president, 01:55:23.680 --> 01:55:26.939 and he fucking completely cracked because everybody 01:55:26.939 --> 01:55:28.880 thought that he was on drugs. Because Hunter 01:55:28.880 --> 01:55:30.899 S. Thompson was just running around saying there's 01:55:30.899 --> 01:55:33.020 these Brazilian witch doctors who are coming 01:55:33.020 --> 01:55:35.760 in to treat this guy. It's crazy shit. That's 01:55:35.760 --> 01:55:38.680 great. They were like, and Hunter would know. 01:55:39.619 --> 01:55:42.539 But it's crazy that he chose Ibogaine, too, because 01:55:42.539 --> 01:55:45.720 Ibogaine is like, it's not a recreational drug. 01:55:46.189 --> 01:55:48.270 a drug of addiction. It's literally a drug that 01:55:48.270 --> 01:55:50.630 stops addiction. He was the guy that would have 01:55:50.630 --> 01:55:54.210 the whole book full of these esoteric drugs you've 01:55:54.210 --> 01:55:56.310 never heard of. The image is really casual way. 01:55:56.550 --> 01:55:58.310 Of course, four of us stopped to get Ibogaine 01:55:58.310 --> 01:56:01.109 at the one gas station that sold needles and 01:56:01.109 --> 01:56:04.170 nothing. Yeah, sure. No, of course you did. But 01:56:04.170 --> 01:56:06.670 it does help people that have brain damage as 01:56:06.670 --> 01:56:10.550 well. It's supposed to cause some sort of neuro 01:56:10.550 --> 01:56:13.930 regeneration. There's stuff out there that can 01:56:13.930 --> 01:56:17.800 help people. A large percentage of these fighters 01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:20.420 are silently suffering, and we don't ever hear 01:56:20.420 --> 01:56:22.779 about it. They say it's supposed to be that the 01:56:22.779 --> 01:56:26.739 argument is because they're not using a glove, 01:56:26.819 --> 01:56:28.600 like that football is supposed to be. Wasn't 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:31.279 that the sort of rationale that you were going 01:56:31.279 --> 01:56:34.220 to have less impact in boxing because the boxing 01:56:34.220 --> 01:56:37.079 gloves? No, but remember, it's all like the subconcussive 01:56:37.079 --> 01:56:41.119 blows. It's not necessarily the one shot knocking 01:56:41.119 --> 01:56:44.340 you out as much as the repeated kind of like 01:56:44.340 --> 01:56:46.729 small. Like a little bit of brain bleed. I'm 01:56:46.729 --> 01:56:48.909 sure that's like, they're all bad for you. You 01:56:48.909 --> 01:56:50.829 know what I mean? Like aversion. Knocks to the 01:56:50.829 --> 01:56:54.560 head are not a good thing to be avoided. Well, 01:56:54.619 --> 01:56:56.220 it's also what you take in training, too. We're 01:56:56.220 --> 01:56:57.859 only considering what happens during a fight. 01:56:57.979 --> 01:57:01.159 If a guy has 40, 50 MMA fights, that's 40. How 01:57:01.159 --> 01:57:03.539 many rounds does he have right in the gym? Oh, 01:57:03.680 --> 01:57:06.720 training camp is fucking brutal. And depending 01:57:06.720 --> 01:57:09.359 upon how intelligent your camp is, like, some 01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:11.779 people are really smart, and they'll spar where 01:57:11.779 --> 01:57:13.479 they're not hitting each other hard, and then 01:57:13.479 --> 01:57:15.779 maybe one day of the week they go live, but you 01:57:15.779 --> 01:57:18.579 do it with trusted, you know, they're very close 01:57:18.579 --> 01:57:20.100 to you. These are people that you care about 01:57:20.100 --> 01:57:21.439 and love, so they're not going to try to hurt 01:57:21.439 --> 01:57:23.939 you on purpose. But sometimes not. Sometimes 01:57:23.939 --> 01:57:26.399 you're in a hostile gym and, you know, you've 01:57:26.399 --> 01:57:27.800 got to spar with people you don't even know. 01:57:27.859 --> 01:57:29.539 They're from other countries. You have a big 01:57:29.539 --> 01:57:32.020 name. They're trying to take you out, you know. 01:57:32.159 --> 01:57:35.479 But the amount of damage these guys take. I mean, 01:57:35.539 --> 01:57:37.600 I don't know if football is better or worse. 01:57:38.300 --> 01:57:41.710 The thing about football is. the big impacts 01:57:41.710 --> 01:57:44.689 are way worse. Because when you've got a 300 01:57:44.689 --> 01:57:48.630 -pound super athlete that's fucking full tilt. 01:57:48.630 --> 01:57:52.390 All the way from across the field. Boom! Running 01:57:52.390 --> 01:57:55.569 start. Yeah, you're getting hit by a truck. And 01:57:55.569 --> 01:58:00.250 that, but that doesn't... It's not targeted necessarily 01:58:00.250 --> 01:58:03.630 at your head. So it's like what is better and 01:58:03.630 --> 01:58:06.909 what is worse. Boxing is bad. It's like you have 01:58:06.909 --> 01:58:09.229 less options. MMA is slightly better because 01:58:09.229 --> 01:58:11.470 especially if you're a grappler, you can take 01:58:11.470 --> 01:58:13.770 guys down and you can beat them up on the ground. 01:58:14.210 --> 01:58:18.069 But it's ultimately you're paying a price. Make 01:58:18.069 --> 01:58:20.800 a fucking living. Yeah. Sure. But for that glory, 01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:23.399 for that one moment when they win and the fucking 01:58:23.399 --> 01:58:26.779 16 ,000 people are on their feet screaming, there's 01:58:26.779 --> 01:58:28.880 probably no drug like that that could ever reproduce 01:58:28.880 --> 01:58:31.300 it. And those guys chased that high their entire 01:58:31.300 --> 01:58:34.689 life. And then after it's over, they feel oddly 01:58:34.689 --> 01:58:38.229 detached. Right. Nothing ever rises to that level 01:58:38.229 --> 01:58:40.289 again. Right. You can make films until you're 01:58:40.289 --> 01:58:43.149 100 years old. You can make great films forever. 01:58:43.390 --> 01:58:45.270 You can do the thing that you love forever. They 01:58:45.270 --> 01:58:47.869 have a little window, a little window of greatness. 01:58:47.909 --> 01:58:49.449 That's the really tough thing about being an 01:58:49.449 --> 01:58:51.390 athlete. We were talking to Pete Sampras that 01:58:51.390 --> 01:58:53.989 time. We met Sampras years ago. And he was like, 01:58:54.430 --> 01:58:56.270 we were probably, I don't know how, we were 30. 01:58:56.310 --> 01:58:58.670 He was 32 or something like that. And he was 01:58:58.670 --> 01:59:00.350 kind of, we were like, oh, my God. He had all 01:59:00.350 --> 01:59:02.789 these fucking, you know. wins and grand slams, 01:59:02.850 --> 01:59:04.989 and he had a kind of vaguely, like, yeah, he 01:59:04.989 --> 01:59:06.710 was like, yeah, you guys look, I'm about to retire. 01:59:07.090 --> 01:59:10.710 I'm finished. And we were, you know, young guys. 01:59:11.289 --> 01:59:14.029 Just getting started, you know what I mean? Also, 01:59:14.229 --> 01:59:16.869 the thing is, you get better at your job the 01:59:16.869 --> 01:59:19.229 more you do it. And so it's that thing with the 01:59:19.229 --> 01:59:21.449 athlete. I was having this conversation the other 01:59:21.449 --> 01:59:23.789 day. It's like, you have all the physical skills 01:59:23.789 --> 01:59:27.689 at the beginning, but you become better at your 01:59:27.689 --> 01:59:31.680 sport as your skills are declining. The body 01:59:31.680 --> 01:59:34.100 just doesn't want to do it anymore. You've got 01:59:34.100 --> 01:59:36.939 to just come. Come Greg Maddux, you know, and 01:59:36.939 --> 01:59:39.260 compensate with all the tricks and location. 01:59:39.880 --> 01:59:42.760 And that's why that drama of, like, the aging 01:59:42.760 --> 01:59:47.079 athlete is so powerful. It's like, do we still 01:59:47.079 --> 01:59:49.739 have it in me? Can I still do it? How long, you 01:59:49.739 --> 01:59:53.659 know, is what I've learned enough to compensate 01:59:53.659 --> 01:59:55.680 for what I've lost, you know? Well, there's an 01:59:55.680 --> 01:59:58.460 interesting story about Vitor Belfort. So Vitor 01:59:58.460 --> 02:00:01.760 Belfort was, he won the UFC heavyweight tournament 02:00:01.760 --> 02:00:04.130 when he was 19 years old. That was like the first 02:00:04.130 --> 02:00:06.630 event I ever worked at in 1997. I mean, he was 02:00:06.630 --> 02:00:09.369 like one of the all -time greats for sure. But 02:00:09.369 --> 02:00:11.710 as he was getting into his 30s, he was starting 02:00:11.710 --> 02:00:15.090 to decline. Then the UFC allowed fighters to 02:00:15.090 --> 02:00:18.760 use testosterone replacement therapy. And boy, 02:00:18.840 --> 02:00:21.840 did he fucking use it. I don't know what his 02:00:21.840 --> 02:00:24.399 levels were, but they were like superhuman levels. 02:00:24.539 --> 02:00:28.000 And there was a moment in time for a few years 02:00:28.000 --> 02:00:30.100 where they allowed him to use testosterone therapy. 02:00:30.159 --> 02:00:32.560 And people refer to it as the TRT Vitor years 02:00:32.560 --> 02:00:36.279 because he was fucking terrifying because he 02:00:36.279 --> 02:00:38.920 has the mind of a veteran. Incredible amount 02:00:38.920 --> 02:00:42.199 of experience. But now his body is moving like 02:00:42.199 --> 02:00:45.739 a 25 year old. And so he was just. annihilating 02:00:45.739 --> 02:00:48.300 people, just lighting people on fire. So they're 02:00:48.300 --> 02:00:50.600 not allowed to use testosterone? No, they can't 02:00:50.600 --> 02:00:53.760 use anything. No. How about peptides? Can they 02:00:53.760 --> 02:00:55.659 use peptides? Nope. Nope, not even peptides. 02:00:55.659 --> 02:00:58.899 They're trying to take that and reform that. 02:00:59.900 --> 02:01:01.859 There's a lot of ignorance about peptides, what 02:01:01.859 --> 02:01:03.899 they actually do. I mean, all it's allowing you 02:01:03.899 --> 02:01:05.579 to do is soft tissue injuries, heal quicker, 02:01:05.720 --> 02:01:08.300 and optimize your body's ability to produce hormones. 02:01:08.399 --> 02:01:10.880 So instead of adding exogenous hormones, you're 02:01:10.880 --> 02:01:13.680 allowing your body to produce them more naturally, 02:01:13.760 --> 02:01:17.229 and it just makes you more healthy. For a very 02:01:17.229 --> 02:01:20.569 unhealthy job where you're getting hurt all the 02:01:20.569 --> 02:01:22.510 time, it's going to be better for the sport, 02:01:22.649 --> 02:01:24.750 better for the athletes to allow them to all 02:01:24.750 --> 02:01:27.010 use it. And it's also – there's no long -term 02:01:27.010 --> 02:01:28.810 damage it's going to do like steroids where it 02:01:28.810 --> 02:01:31.989 shuts down your endocrine system. So I hope they 02:01:31.989 --> 02:01:34.789 reform it. But the idea was that there's so many 02:01:34.789 --> 02:01:37.630 fucking loopholes and so many people cheat. Big 02:01:37.630 --> 02:01:41.029 camps used to hire scientists. So they had a 02:01:41.029 --> 02:01:45.050 scientist on staff that was not only – What did 02:01:45.050 --> 02:01:48.409 he do? Yeah, exactly. Not only procuring stuff 02:01:48.409 --> 02:01:51.229 that would slip by the test because there's like 02:01:51.229 --> 02:01:55.029 the Balco stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's stuff 02:01:55.029 --> 02:01:57.489 probably right now. That people are using that's 02:01:57.489 --> 02:01:59.470 slipping through. And there's a lot of experts 02:01:59.470 --> 02:02:02.090 that have, like, one of the things is animal 02:02:02.090 --> 02:02:05.289 -derived testosterone. So testosterone, they 02:02:05.289 --> 02:02:08.109 use a carbon isotope test, I think. I believe 02:02:08.109 --> 02:02:10.489 that's what they use to figure out where the 02:02:10.489 --> 02:02:13.609 testosterone came from. So if your testosterone 02:02:13.609 --> 02:02:16.289 is, like, at a very high level, they test all 02:02:16.289 --> 02:02:17.989 your other ratios. They go, well, no, it all 02:02:17.989 --> 02:02:21.829 seems likely. He's an outlier. He just has naturally 02:02:21.829 --> 02:02:27.159 high testosterone. like synthetic testosterone 02:02:27.159 --> 02:02:30.819 is derived from a wild yam, believe it or not. 02:02:30.899 --> 02:02:33.579 Really? Yeah, it's not animal -derived testosterone. 02:02:33.939 --> 02:02:36.720 So the composite of it varies when they run the 02:02:36.720 --> 02:02:38.399 tests on it and they can determine. They can 02:02:38.399 --> 02:02:40.020 determine that it's a yam -based testosterone. 02:02:40.159 --> 02:02:42.060 It's exogenous, not endogenous. It's a yam and 02:02:42.060 --> 02:02:44.439 they're fighting. It's not him. But if they can 02:02:44.439 --> 02:02:47.000 figure out a way to, and there's a lot of. proof 02:02:47.000 --> 02:02:48.460 of concept of this can they figure out a way 02:02:48.460 --> 02:02:50.739 to extract testosterone from animal sources bull 02:02:50.739 --> 02:02:52.840 testosterone something like that well the taurine 02:02:52.840 --> 02:02:56.300 they used to inject Hitler with taurine you know 02:02:56.300 --> 02:02:58.659 Hitler was like a fucking guinea pig for this 02:02:58.659 --> 02:03:01.020 one doctor who tried a bunch of shit on him and 02:03:01.020 --> 02:03:02.760 one of the things they did was like inject him 02:03:02.760 --> 02:03:04.640 with bull testicles and stuff to try to keep 02:03:04.640 --> 02:03:09.340 him virile yeah but but there probably are athletes 02:03:09.340 --> 02:03:11.720 right now that are using some shit that they 02:03:11.720 --> 02:03:15.090 haven't figured out yet so Give them any loopholes 02:03:15.090 --> 02:03:16.430 at all. They're like, no, no, no. Fucking no 02:03:16.430 --> 02:03:20.310 loopholes. No IVs. No nothing. No IVs. No IVs. 02:03:20.449 --> 02:03:22.449 Vitamins and. Right. But the problem with IVs 02:03:22.449 --> 02:03:27.420 is you can mask testosterone and mask. by over 02:03:27.420 --> 02:03:30.279 flooding the body with liquids. So if you overflow. 02:03:30.579 --> 02:03:32.600 Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the ratio is 02:03:32.600 --> 02:03:35.899 high because you add more water. Yes. You would 02:03:35.899 --> 02:03:39.359 just fill them up with saline and then when they 02:03:39.359 --> 02:03:41.960 go to piss, like, nope, clean. Look at the ratio. 02:03:42.520 --> 02:03:45.000 Because it's like so much water is being processed 02:03:45.000 --> 02:03:47.020 through the body that it doesn't have time to 02:03:47.020 --> 02:03:48.659 show the testosterone. So there's a way to mask 02:03:48.659 --> 02:03:50.619 it, especially with like things that you would 02:03:50.619 --> 02:03:54.739 add to the IV. So there's no, you can, it's only, 02:03:55.239 --> 02:03:57.600 Food and approved supplements through, like, 02:03:57.680 --> 02:04:00.560 really high -level labs like Thorne, like Thorne 02:04:00.560 --> 02:04:03.180 supplements where it's third -party tested. So 02:04:03.180 --> 02:04:05.880 they can't do anything. But for a while, they 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:08.920 let them do it. And those TRT VTOR days were 02:04:08.920 --> 02:04:11.899 my favorite fights to watch. Did they stop doing 02:04:11.899 --> 02:04:14.479 fighting because they thought it was, like, advantaging 02:04:14.479 --> 02:04:16.420 certain people or shit happened that they're 02:04:16.420 --> 02:04:18.800 like, this is fucked up? Well, look at the difference. 02:04:18.840 --> 02:04:21.000 That's TRT VTOR on the left, and that's him on 02:04:21.000 --> 02:04:23.100 the right when they made him get off of it. Look 02:04:23.100 --> 02:04:25.199 at the difference. I mean, that's fucking stunning. 02:04:25.399 --> 02:04:27.920 On the left, though, dude, that motherfucker 02:04:27.920 --> 02:04:30.960 was terrifying. When Luke Rockhold fought him, 02:04:31.000 --> 02:04:33.119 he told me, he goes, dude, when I stood next 02:04:33.119 --> 02:04:34.760 to him at the fucking weigh -ins, he had muscles 02:04:34.760 --> 02:04:37.500 on his teeth. He goes, this fucking dude was 02:04:37.500 --> 02:04:39.399 so jacked, he was so scared. I was like, what 02:04:39.399 --> 02:04:42.479 the fuck is he on? Because he knew he was on 02:04:42.479 --> 02:04:45.739 something. It's just, it's cheating. It really 02:04:45.739 --> 02:04:49.079 is because you can jack your levels way above 02:04:49.079 --> 02:04:51.899 a normal human beings. Cause that's what a lot 02:04:51.899 --> 02:04:53.840 of guys, there was a few fighters that were pulled 02:04:53.840 --> 02:04:56.819 from cards because like, say if a really high 02:04:56.819 --> 02:04:59.640 levels, like 1100, they were testing like 18, 02:04:59.699 --> 02:05:02.359 1900. They were like. People that have never 02:05:02.359 --> 02:05:04.939 lived before. They were like a science project. 02:05:05.100 --> 02:05:07.920 A different species. And they were insane confidence. 02:05:08.960 --> 02:05:10.720 Insane confidence. Because they were essentially 02:05:10.720 --> 02:05:13.420 like a raging gorilla. They were just insanely 02:05:13.420 --> 02:05:17.020 confident. And just so fired up. They couldn't 02:05:17.020 --> 02:05:18.979 wait to smash somebody. Because they were just 02:05:18.979 --> 02:05:22.659 fucking maniacal. They were a berserker. So it's 02:05:22.659 --> 02:05:25.420 not a person anymore. Now you're a science project. 02:05:25.779 --> 02:05:29.380 There are rare outliers. Like Tyson when he was 02:05:29.380 --> 02:05:31.300 in his prime. This rare physical special. And 02:05:31.300 --> 02:05:33.619 like that's part of the game, but that's God, 02:05:33.859 --> 02:05:36.439 you know, that's nature This is not you know, 02:05:36.439 --> 02:05:39.220 Balco labs and so they won't allow them to do 02:05:39.220 --> 02:05:40.859 anything anymore And that's why it's because 02:05:40.859 --> 02:05:43.060 too many and Vitor was one of the guys that tested 02:05:43.060 --> 02:05:47.760 like way over the line and then they But that's 02:05:47.760 --> 02:05:49.699 what they're gonna do if you say if you say it's 02:05:49.699 --> 02:05:53.239 legal they're gonna take it better and you know 02:05:53.239 --> 02:05:55.560 Yeah, if you say oh you did one CC a week. They're 02:05:55.560 --> 02:05:58.539 like I heard five And these guys are just training 02:05:58.539 --> 02:06:01.060 five times a day and then never get tired, and 02:06:01.060 --> 02:06:03.840 they recover like that. And they never have to 02:06:03.840 --> 02:06:05.439 worry about soft tissue injuries because they 02:06:05.439 --> 02:06:07.579 heal like you're a fucking six -year -old. Right. 02:06:07.819 --> 02:06:09.800 You know, you just... Your body just like... 02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:12.859 You're like fucking Wolverine. Yeah. Oh, yeah, 02:06:12.880 --> 02:06:14.619 man. Well, that's the thing about peptides, too, 02:06:14.680 --> 02:06:17.960 the Wolverine stack. BP -157 and TB -500. I don't 02:06:17.960 --> 02:06:19.439 know if you ever get injured. If you ever get 02:06:19.439 --> 02:06:23.020 injured, get immediately on BP -157 and TB -500. 02:06:23.140 --> 02:06:25.460 I didn't hear about TB -500. What's that one? 02:06:25.539 --> 02:06:28.079 Thymus and Beta -500. Oh, yes. In conjunction 02:06:28.079 --> 02:06:31.890 with BPC - It is a fucking phenomenal stack, 02:06:32.130 --> 02:06:33.890 and it just really helps injuries. I didn't know 02:06:33.890 --> 02:06:35.069 they called it the Wolverine stack. That's what 02:06:35.069 --> 02:06:36.289 they call it, the Wolverine stack. For healing? 02:06:36.390 --> 02:06:38.449 Yeah, because you fucking heal incredibly well. 02:06:38.590 --> 02:06:41.170 I was talking to a pro football player who pulled 02:06:41.170 --> 02:06:43.310 his hamstring. He's like, dude, I shot that shit 02:06:43.310 --> 02:06:44.829 right into my hamstring for two weeks, and I 02:06:44.829 --> 02:06:46.470 was right back on the field. Wow. I was like, 02:06:46.489 --> 02:06:49.569 that's nuts. I go, what is a normal rehab? He 02:06:49.569 --> 02:06:51.770 goes, three months. He goes, in two weeks, I 02:06:51.770 --> 02:06:53.550 was back on the field. I go, what the fuck? He 02:06:53.550 --> 02:06:55.649 goes, I don't know how bad the injury was. He 02:06:55.649 --> 02:06:57.970 goes, but to me, it's like, fuck. I pulled my 02:06:57.970 --> 02:07:00.430 hamstring. I'm fucked now for X amount of days. 02:07:00.489 --> 02:07:01.949 He goes, in two weeks later, I was playing full 02:07:01.949 --> 02:07:04.680 tilt. I'm like, that's nuts. And going right 02:07:04.680 --> 02:07:07.239 into the area of the injury. Right into it. Some 02:07:07.239 --> 02:07:08.840 people think you don't have to do that. They 02:07:08.840 --> 02:07:11.260 think it's systemic, so you just stick it in 02:07:11.260 --> 02:07:14.000 your fat on your side. But he's like, no. And 02:07:14.000 --> 02:07:16.140 most athletes will tell you the best benefit 02:07:16.140 --> 02:07:20.060 is local. Shoot it locally into the area. Like 02:07:20.060 --> 02:07:24.920 cortisone or whatever. Yeah, cortisone. But cortisone 02:07:24.920 --> 02:07:28.500 just masks it. Not only that, it has a tendency, 02:07:28.659 --> 02:07:31.260 if you do it too many times, to weaken tendons. 02:07:32.270 --> 02:07:34.210 And so it could actually exacerbate the problem 02:07:34.210 --> 02:07:36.470 because it takes away the pain. Right. Yeah. 02:07:36.569 --> 02:07:39.470 It takes away the pain. But, I mean, you know, 02:07:39.489 --> 02:07:41.729 then there's the enhanced games that are coming 02:07:41.729 --> 02:07:44.050 out in Vegas this year. I know. My friend had 02:07:44.050 --> 02:07:45.970 that idea a long time ago. He was like, you should 02:07:45.970 --> 02:07:48.970 just do the drug Olympics for cash. He goes, 02:07:49.029 --> 02:07:51.609 do it in Vegas for cash. And then the enhanced 02:07:51.609 --> 02:07:53.689 games came. They're doing it. I sent him a tag. 02:07:53.729 --> 02:07:57.180 I was like, they're doing it. Yeah. I'm down. 02:07:57.800 --> 02:08:00.680 Let's see what a human being can do. That's what 02:08:00.680 --> 02:08:04.000 I think. I mean, look, when Barry Bonds and Sammy 02:08:04.000 --> 02:08:05.979 Sosa and those guys were cracking out home runs, 02:08:06.140 --> 02:08:08.199 it was one of the most exciting times in baseball. 02:08:08.520 --> 02:08:10.180 It was pretty exciting. That's why they didn't 02:08:10.180 --> 02:08:12.060 do anything. They knew it wasn't a fucking mystery 02:08:12.060 --> 02:08:14.680 to anybody. But everybody's tuning in. The Bash 02:08:14.680 --> 02:08:17.920 brothers played baseball on a strike. They almost 02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:19.840 fucking destroyed that league and then people 02:08:19.840 --> 02:08:23.699 started watching. And then Bonds is like, well, 02:08:23.840 --> 02:08:26.310 these two fucking guys are hitting this many 02:08:26.310 --> 02:08:28.630 home runs. I'm the best player in baseball, which 02:08:28.630 --> 02:08:31.670 he was, and when he did it, it lights out. He 02:08:31.670 --> 02:08:34.430 had a year where he only swung and missed 26 02:08:34.430 --> 02:08:38.170 times. 162 games. Three and a half at -bats a 02:08:38.170 --> 02:08:42.149 game. Only swung and missed. I mean, that's just... 02:08:42.789 --> 02:08:46.270 And, yeah, McGuire would just move his wrist 02:08:46.270 --> 02:08:48.310 to get the ball out of the park. And it was fun 02:08:48.310 --> 02:08:50.430 to watch. And when people say steroids don't 02:08:50.430 --> 02:08:52.590 make you a better athlete, well, they maybe don't 02:08:52.590 --> 02:08:54.609 make you a better athlete. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:08:54.609 --> 02:08:56.670 But if you're fucking Barry Bonds. If you're 02:08:56.670 --> 02:08:59.489 already an elite athlete, yeah. If you let Jon 02:08:59.489 --> 02:09:02.470 Jones do all the juice he wants, he'd be fighting 02:09:02.470 --> 02:09:05.029 until he's 50 and fucking people up. If you say, 02:09:05.109 --> 02:09:07.930 Jon, we've really come to our senses. This sport's 02:09:07.930 --> 02:09:09.489 all about excitement. I want to give the people 02:09:09.489 --> 02:09:12.859 what they want. Let people make it. choices based 02:09:12.859 --> 02:09:15.199 on their own discretion. Oh, it's like that. 02:09:15.199 --> 02:09:17.899 Welcome back. Welcome back. Then all of a sudden 02:09:17.899 --> 02:09:19.880 John looks like Vitor in that picture. He'd be 02:09:19.880 --> 02:09:22.180 undefeated. By the way, John beat Vitor when 02:09:22.180 --> 02:09:24.579 Vitor was in his prime and Vitor caught John 02:09:24.579 --> 02:09:27.920 in a full arm bar, totally locked his arm out, 02:09:27.979 --> 02:09:30.840 hyperextended, popped it, went backwards. You 02:09:30.840 --> 02:09:33.500 can see the video of it. His elbow is going that 02:09:33.500 --> 02:09:36.000 way. He wouldn't tap and then beat him in the 02:09:36.000 --> 02:09:39.180 next round. With one arm. Yep. One arm. His arm 02:09:39.180 --> 02:09:42.329 was fucked for like a year after that. Yeah. 02:09:43.400 --> 02:09:45.420 Yeah. Give that man some steroids. Let's see 02:09:45.420 --> 02:09:47.739 what he can do. Steroids. Let him be the king 02:09:47.739 --> 02:09:50.699 of the world. Yeah. The dream team. It's like, 02:09:50.699 --> 02:09:52.960 you know, the first time the pros went to the 02:09:52.960 --> 02:09:54.300 Olympics or whatever, the year's 90s. Oh, yeah. 02:09:54.439 --> 02:09:56.539 It was so fun. Won every game by 70 points. Yeah. 02:09:56.640 --> 02:09:58.260 It wasn't close, but it was a hell of a lot of 02:09:58.260 --> 02:09:59.560 fun. It was fun to watch. Well, the argument 02:09:59.560 --> 02:10:01.199 for that made sense, though, because, like, these 02:10:01.199 --> 02:10:03.119 other people are being compensated in their countries. 02:10:03.479 --> 02:10:04.960 Oh, yeah. I had no problem with them. By the 02:10:04.960 --> 02:10:07.340 way, now it's got more. That last Olympic championship, 02:10:07.380 --> 02:10:09.880 that was a great game against France. That was 02:10:09.880 --> 02:10:12.220 fabulous, you know? I mean, yeah, they're going 02:10:12.220 --> 02:10:14.909 to. wreck some smaller countries and stuff, but 02:10:14.909 --> 02:10:17.069 okay, you're playing pros, they're playing pros. 02:10:17.409 --> 02:10:19.289 The whole definition of amateurism has gotten 02:10:19.289 --> 02:10:23.270 a little bit, like, you know. Yes. People find, 02:10:23.430 --> 02:10:25.170 like, a convenient definition of it according 02:10:25.170 --> 02:10:27.029 to what's there. You see in college sports, it's 02:10:27.029 --> 02:10:28.829 changing and stuff. Like, look, I got no problem 02:10:28.829 --> 02:10:30.810 if you're going to apply the rules evenly, but 02:10:30.810 --> 02:10:32.189 sometimes when it feels like it's just an excuse 02:10:32.189 --> 02:10:34.850 for the NCAA to make a billion dollars off the 02:10:34.850 --> 02:10:36.789 TV deal, I'm like, no, no, no, you guys, you're 02:10:36.789 --> 02:10:38.970 getting an education. Right. It's like a little 02:10:38.970 --> 02:10:40.109 bit like, yeah, you're getting an education, 02:10:40.189 --> 02:10:42.090 you guys are making a lot of money because. people 02:10:42.090 --> 02:10:45.079 want to see Nebraska play. It's exploitation. 02:10:45.300 --> 02:10:47.300 Yeah. And I'm glad they've changed that with 02:10:47.300 --> 02:10:49.520 college sports because these guys are the reason 02:10:49.520 --> 02:10:51.380 why you're filling up the seats. And they deserve 02:10:51.380 --> 02:10:52.899 that money. And not even one of them is going 02:10:52.899 --> 02:10:54.800 to be in the NFL. Right. You know what I mean? 02:10:54.840 --> 02:10:56.359 Some of them, that's their window to make that 02:10:56.359 --> 02:10:58.420 fucking money. You know what I mean? Like, it's 02:10:58.420 --> 02:11:00.840 hard. It's hard. And the risk of catastrophic 02:11:00.840 --> 02:11:03.960 injury is always there. It's constant. Constant. 02:11:04.000 --> 02:11:07.359 Yeah. And the metrics for it's like, what is 02:11:07.359 --> 02:11:09.840 it, a two and a half year career or something? 02:11:09.939 --> 02:11:12.939 Yeah. Depending on your position. But, I mean, 02:11:12.979 --> 02:11:15.899 it's. That seems just fair and obvious. You can 02:11:15.899 --> 02:11:17.619 pay a kid to flip a cheeseburger out of college, 02:11:17.699 --> 02:11:20.199 but not to like, you know, come on. Well, that's 02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:22.479 the great thing about doing something where you're 02:11:22.479 --> 02:11:25.399 not relying on your body, like acting. You can 02:11:25.399 --> 02:11:28.359 kind of do it forever. Yeah, keep going until 02:11:28.359 --> 02:11:29.880 you lose it. You know what I mean? It's really, 02:11:30.060 --> 02:11:32.500 yeah, it's great. And it's got its own competitive 02:11:32.500 --> 02:11:36.510 aspect. Of course. Like okay great if it's if 02:11:36.510 --> 02:11:38.310 you get a really better yourself, and then the 02:11:38.310 --> 02:11:40.789 expectation is well I got to do something that's 02:11:40.789 --> 02:11:42.449 interesting enough that people want to watch 02:11:42.449 --> 02:11:44.149 it though. That's the proposition How do you 02:11:44.149 --> 02:11:47.189 guys decide like on projects that you choose 02:11:47.189 --> 02:11:49.789 like I'm sure you have so many options now like 02:11:49.789 --> 02:11:53.050 what what? makes you say this is what i'm going 02:11:53.050 --> 02:11:54.930 to spend the next six months doing it's really 02:11:54.930 --> 02:11:56.810 i mean there are a bunch of different factors 02:11:56.810 --> 02:11:59.930 like like the director is being the most important 02:11:59.930 --> 02:12:03.270 one but but if you read a script and and like 02:12:03.270 --> 02:12:05.130 we've read so many thousands and thousands of 02:12:05.130 --> 02:12:08.109 scripts and written so many scripts and worked 02:12:08.109 --> 02:12:11.930 on so many movies that that if if we read something 02:12:11.930 --> 02:12:14.069 and it and it it's that thing we were talking 02:12:14.069 --> 02:12:16.939 about earlier you know you get that get that 02:12:16.939 --> 02:12:19.340 kind of emotional something happens when you 02:12:19.340 --> 02:12:22.079 read it you go okay well then you then you pay 02:12:22.079 --> 02:12:24.100 attention to it maybe read it again go wait a 02:12:24.100 --> 02:12:26.600 minute you know if it if it moves you in that 02:12:26.600 --> 02:12:29.079 in that way then you know ultimately the big 02:12:29.079 --> 02:12:31.979 decision is saying yes because because you're 02:12:31.979 --> 02:12:34.539 going to spend yeah it's the last point of which 02:12:34.539 --> 02:12:37.239 you have total control right you know and then 02:12:37.239 --> 02:12:40.420 you're in then you're in and and you're and you're 02:12:40.420 --> 02:12:42.239 in whether it's good or bad i mean i've been 02:12:42.239 --> 02:12:45.739 on those movies where i knew A month into a six 02:12:45.739 --> 02:12:47.779 -month shoot that, like, this is not going to 02:12:47.779 --> 02:12:51.939 work. And that is the fucking worst. What is 02:12:51.939 --> 02:12:55.100 that like? That's the worst. I came to think 02:12:55.100 --> 02:12:57.539 of that. They're going to shoot us all when it 02:12:57.539 --> 02:13:02.779 comes out. It's all bad. It's going to be 80 02:13:02.779 --> 02:13:08.140 16 -hour days in a row. post -production period 02:13:08.140 --> 02:13:09.859 that's going to be pretty fraught and then it's 02:13:09.859 --> 02:13:11.079 going to come out and we're going to get fucking 02:13:11.079 --> 02:13:12.720 crushed. And then you're going to have to sell 02:13:12.720 --> 02:13:14.840 it. You're going to have to walk the fucking 02:13:14.840 --> 02:13:17.779 plank and sit down with access. You know what 02:13:17.779 --> 02:13:21.220 I mean? Like, so, saw the movie. How important 02:13:21.220 --> 02:13:25.340 is that stuff still today? The press stuff. Is 02:13:25.340 --> 02:13:27.880 that still important? It is. I don't know to 02:13:27.880 --> 02:13:30.840 what degree each specific thing is. It's kind 02:13:30.840 --> 02:13:32.079 of ironic because we were talking about coming 02:13:32.079 --> 02:13:35.220 on this show today. I was like, doing this show 02:13:35.220 --> 02:13:37.739 will be more meaningful than the rest of the 02:13:37.739 --> 02:13:39.779 shit we do in aggregate to promote this movie. 02:13:39.840 --> 02:13:42.779 We spent this whole week in New York doing, I 02:13:42.779 --> 02:13:44.859 don't know how many interviews, the quick ones 02:13:44.859 --> 02:13:46.460 with all the outlets. 105 -minute interviews, 02:13:46.699 --> 02:13:50.220 all the evening shows, the day shows. All that 02:13:50.220 --> 02:13:54.380 stuff. This just given how many people listen 02:13:54.380 --> 02:13:57.800 to the show. will be more meaningful. We think, 02:13:57.880 --> 02:14:00.819 I mean, that's our, we were speculating. Historically, 02:14:00.920 --> 02:14:03.020 right? If you look at it, that's because they've 02:14:03.020 --> 02:14:06.220 changed to like, all of it feels kind of produced 02:14:06.220 --> 02:14:09.039 and forced and advertised and people have become 02:14:09.039 --> 02:14:10.739 resistant to anything that feels kind of like 02:14:10.739 --> 02:14:12.199 a gimmick and a shtick and you go on and you 02:14:12.199 --> 02:14:13.600 do your song and dance and they say a thing and 02:14:13.600 --> 02:14:15.939 it looks great and nobody cares. Like they're 02:14:15.939 --> 02:14:17.960 looking to go either because somebody they know 02:14:17.960 --> 02:14:20.520 says it's interesting or somebody that they trusted 02:14:20.520 --> 02:14:23.239 and a trusted person is in like your, like you 02:14:23.239 --> 02:14:24.960 said, your feed, right? And it's your friend 02:14:24.960 --> 02:14:28.090 or. your cousin or it's or they affix that to 02:14:28.090 --> 02:14:30.829 somebody which has become a more rare thing like 02:14:30.829 --> 02:14:34.470 who's a like a legitimate neutral arbiter right 02:14:34.470 --> 02:14:36.829 who i can't predict what they're going to say 02:14:36.829 --> 02:14:39.569 before i go there there are a few of those fewer 02:14:39.569 --> 02:14:42.369 and fewer of those people in the world even those 02:14:42.369 --> 02:14:45.630 are proliferation of more and more voices and 02:14:45.630 --> 02:14:49.210 i it's kind of paradoxical like The form of entertainment 02:14:49.210 --> 02:14:51.289 is getting shorter and shorter and shorter. So 02:14:51.289 --> 02:14:53.229 you're like a seven second, you know, we're an 02:14:53.229 --> 02:14:55.489 advertising company. We do most of the spots 02:14:55.489 --> 02:14:57.630 that we release, like 15 second spots, six second 02:14:57.630 --> 02:15:00.430 spots for social, the ones most people see. And 02:15:00.430 --> 02:15:04.050 then there's this one form, which is like long 02:15:04.050 --> 02:15:06.989 form discussions that are whatever, two hours 02:15:06.989 --> 02:15:10.470 long. And the amazing to me is, you know, in 02:15:10.470 --> 02:15:12.069 a world where it seems like you can't get people 02:15:12.069 --> 02:15:13.970 to pay attention more than, you know, a few seconds, 02:15:14.069 --> 02:15:16.710 there's a kind of a hunger for that. So there's 02:15:16.710 --> 02:15:19.279 like. This form, and that's why these are getting 02:15:19.279 --> 02:15:20.720 more popular. Obviously, you have this massive 02:15:20.720 --> 02:15:24.020 audience. And it's kind of flying in the face 02:15:24.020 --> 02:15:27.300 of the whole other trend. And I think, and I 02:15:27.300 --> 02:15:29.840 don't know, that it probably has something to 02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:32.840 do with, like, who do I think is authentic? And 02:15:32.840 --> 02:15:36.579 am I actually willing to extend? My two hours 02:15:36.579 --> 02:15:38.680 of my time to sit there and listen through and 02:15:38.680 --> 02:15:41.939 that an argument that people probably do appreciate 02:15:41.939 --> 02:15:44.659 and understand conversations that have context 02:15:44.659 --> 02:15:47.000 and nuance and where there's like a back and 02:15:47.000 --> 02:15:49.699 forth. They're just much more selective about 02:15:49.699 --> 02:15:53.619 who they're willing to kind of give that sort 02:15:53.619 --> 02:15:56.260 of. voice to in their life it's also the voice 02:15:56.260 --> 02:15:58.439 of the public too because when people start talking 02:15:58.439 --> 02:16:00.840 about things online and things go viral online 02:16:00.840 --> 02:16:03.539 and people just start like saying how great they 02:16:03.539 --> 02:16:05.920 love the film or how great this album is or something 02:16:05.920 --> 02:16:09.279 like that it just takes off organically now yeah 02:16:09.279 --> 02:16:11.460 and that has more more weight than anything right 02:16:11.460 --> 02:16:13.619 you feel like somebody else who obviously has 02:16:13.619 --> 02:16:16.220 no dog in the fight is go hey this is great you 02:16:16.220 --> 02:16:18.060 should see it i'm the same thing if i hear somebody 02:16:18.060 --> 02:16:20.640 tell me like you know who i respect yeah you 02:16:20.640 --> 02:16:22.840 got to see that thing that means more to me than 02:16:22.840 --> 02:16:25.060 anything right because i believe that and so 02:16:25.060 --> 02:16:27.260 if the closer you can get to that which is why 02:16:27.260 --> 02:16:31.159 i think the act of a like telling the same you 02:16:31.159 --> 02:16:33.680 know like telling the same like story about you 02:16:33.680 --> 02:16:35.840 should go see the movie to a bunch of people 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:38.860 with a certain like limited reach it's just it's 02:16:38.860 --> 02:16:41.219 just not that efficient, but you have to, because 02:16:41.219 --> 02:16:43.500 it's like, well, we sat down with our own, and 02:16:43.500 --> 02:16:46.920 talked about the, you know, and you kind of do 02:16:46.920 --> 02:16:49.340 that ostensibly because it means a little bit 02:16:49.340 --> 02:16:52.579 more in that, in that market. But I think ultimately 02:16:52.579 --> 02:16:55.180 it's, it's like more and more people see, realize 02:16:55.180 --> 02:16:57.680 they're being sold to see through the. fucking 02:16:57.680 --> 02:16:59.840 act in this sort of bullshit. They recognize 02:16:59.840 --> 02:17:02.260 that, you know, you go out and sell every movie, 02:17:02.340 --> 02:17:04.079 you know what I mean? The good and the bad. And 02:17:04.079 --> 02:17:06.079 then we got to decide, well, which one and who 02:17:06.079 --> 02:17:08.020 can you count on? Well, it's mostly going to 02:17:08.020 --> 02:17:09.739 be that like the word of mouth, your friend. 02:17:09.799 --> 02:17:12.440 And now you can see that person in your media 02:17:12.440 --> 02:17:15.180 experience, you know? Yeah. And I think it's 02:17:15.180 --> 02:17:18.360 also. We know that when you're sitting down with 02:17:18.360 --> 02:17:21.579 extra, that's just their job to sit down with 02:17:21.579 --> 02:17:22.899 people. They're not doing it because they want 02:17:22.899 --> 02:17:27.360 to. They got told, go talk to that person. And 02:17:27.360 --> 02:17:30.659 we got told, go talk to them. So they go do the 02:17:30.659 --> 02:17:32.780 ritual, and they say the thing they say, and 02:17:32.780 --> 02:17:35.420 we say the thing we say. And everyone goes home 02:17:35.420 --> 02:17:37.280 and says we did our job. That's the benefit of 02:17:37.280 --> 02:17:39.700 an independent podcast is that like with me, 02:17:39.799 --> 02:17:41.979 I don't talk to anybody I don't want to talk 02:17:41.979 --> 02:17:44.780 to. It's just like I literally do the whole thing 02:17:44.780 --> 02:17:46.659 on my phone. I go, oh, yeah, that sounds cool. 02:17:46.940 --> 02:17:49.540 And that's it. But like that, I think, means 02:17:49.540 --> 02:17:52.059 a lot. This person is making this choice. And 02:17:52.059 --> 02:17:53.959 I've listened to it a bunch. And I actually find 02:17:53.959 --> 02:17:55.840 myself agreeing with it a lot of the time. So, 02:17:55.899 --> 02:17:59.260 all right, I'll give it a shot. I think also 02:17:59.260 --> 02:18:03.129 like this format, like at least I know why. Why 02:18:03.129 --> 02:18:06.649 I started listening to podcasts was because in 02:18:06.649 --> 02:18:10.069 the world, like, the divisive kind, the way everybody 02:18:10.069 --> 02:18:11.950 was talking, these sound bites and all this shit, 02:18:12.010 --> 02:18:15.309 and it was just, like, the ability to just listen 02:18:15.309 --> 02:18:19.690 to human beings talk, often who had different 02:18:19.690 --> 02:18:22.809 points of view but, like, had a civil conversation. 02:18:23.069 --> 02:18:26.090 Yeah. It was, like, it was such a welcome thing, 02:18:26.209 --> 02:18:29.989 you know, given the kind of the hysterical kind 02:18:29.989 --> 02:18:35.250 of, you know. frenzy of divisiveness that's kind 02:18:35.250 --> 02:18:37.790 of, it just feels, it's just like, you know, 02:18:37.790 --> 02:18:40.610 it's like if I open my phone and look at the 02:18:40.610 --> 02:18:43.049 news, I'm just like, fuck. It's like, put it 02:18:43.049 --> 02:18:46.209 down. It's just, it's like, I feel my cortisol 02:18:46.209 --> 02:18:49.049 level go up. And to actually hear people, listen 02:18:49.049 --> 02:18:51.629 to people I know I don't agree with, but listen 02:18:51.629 --> 02:18:54.790 to them and just think about it. You know what 02:18:54.790 --> 02:18:57.049 I mean? Approach life with a little bit of humility. 02:18:58.229 --> 02:19:02.010 Hold on to what you believe, obviously, but Keep 02:19:02.010 --> 02:19:04.540 listening. It's also there's not a lot of opportunities 02:19:04.540 --> 02:19:07.299 in the real world to have long conversations 02:19:07.299 --> 02:19:09.719 with people. So people are kind of starving for 02:19:09.719 --> 02:19:11.780 that. I know. Isn't it funny that this has become 02:19:11.780 --> 02:19:14.680 the shared cultural, like we listen to that podcast 02:19:14.680 --> 02:19:17.559 and then actually experience that. And also, 02:19:17.639 --> 02:19:19.959 why don't people trust the media? Well, because 02:19:19.959 --> 02:19:21.840 the media doesn't do that because they compress 02:19:21.840 --> 02:19:24.180 it. And because the truth, it's money. Because 02:19:24.180 --> 02:19:26.040 actually doing that is not with money. It's just 02:19:26.040 --> 02:19:29.120 ratings and the perceived idea that like, well, 02:19:29.280 --> 02:19:31.920 if you simplify it or you position it one way 02:19:31.920 --> 02:19:34.739 or the other, You engender outrage. That's simple 02:19:34.739 --> 02:19:37.840 or just, you know, pure one sided ideas that 02:19:37.840 --> 02:19:41.520 are that are simple. You know, but the news used 02:19:41.520 --> 02:19:44.180 to be the idea was, look, here's the FCC. We're 02:19:44.180 --> 02:19:46.459 going to let these networks broadcast their shows 02:19:46.459 --> 02:19:48.159 and make money on it. But here's the deal. You 02:19:48.159 --> 02:19:50.700 got to give an hour of that and lose money on 02:19:50.700 --> 02:19:52.579 that hour to tell the news and try to tell it 02:19:52.579 --> 02:19:54.920 objectively. Then it started to be, no, you got 02:19:54.920 --> 02:19:56.440 to make money for that hour, too. And if you're 02:19:56.440 --> 02:19:58.680 going to make money, that's a different incentive 02:19:58.680 --> 02:20:01.629 than. tell the truth or report things or any 02:20:01.629 --> 02:20:04.629 of those things. And people try to hybridize 02:20:04.629 --> 02:20:06.290 them. But at the end of the day, you're a more 02:20:06.290 --> 02:20:09.250 successful reporter if more people watch you 02:20:09.250 --> 02:20:11.729 because advertisers pay more. And then they're 02:20:11.729 --> 02:20:13.489 doing the same thing, looking at their data. 02:20:13.750 --> 02:20:15.870 What are people watching? What kinds of stories? 02:20:16.469 --> 02:20:19.069 And I think this is simple answers because you're 02:20:19.069 --> 02:20:21.950 just making it into a profit game. Those incentives 02:20:21.950 --> 02:20:24.690 are not aligned with just trying to get down 02:20:24.690 --> 02:20:28.399 to like even reporting basic. Facts. Yeah, it 02:20:28.399 --> 02:20:30.420 was a weird time. It's like we have more access 02:20:30.420 --> 02:20:32.440 to information than ever before, but so much 02:20:32.440 --> 02:20:34.899 of it is just horseshit. Yeah. You know, it's 02:20:34.899 --> 02:20:38.899 hard to... Stay balanced. And I think that's 02:20:38.899 --> 02:20:41.299 why it's good to listen to the people. Just talk. 02:20:41.579 --> 02:20:44.600 And then you recognize the flaws in their thinking. 02:20:45.000 --> 02:20:50.239 You feel ego. You feel deception, bullshit. It's 02:20:50.239 --> 02:20:52.379 true. People will reveal themselves. We actually 02:20:52.379 --> 02:20:55.100 don't need that many editorialists to be constantly 02:20:55.100 --> 02:20:57.620 telling us what to think and how to think. People 02:20:57.620 --> 02:21:00.260 actually have pretty good instincts. If someone's 02:21:00.260 --> 02:21:01.979 bullshitting, you'll eventually kind of hang 02:21:01.979 --> 02:21:03.799 themselves. Like you said, you'll get that vibe. 02:21:04.340 --> 02:21:06.639 After a while, he kind of starts. repeating his 02:21:06.639 --> 02:21:09.319 shtick. And I kind of didn't really talk about 02:21:09.319 --> 02:21:11.879 what I was wondering about. And you form your 02:21:11.879 --> 02:21:13.659 own, that's like forming your own judgment. Pete 02:21:13.659 --> 02:21:16.139 Buttigieg actually talked about that being dangerous 02:21:16.139 --> 02:21:19.520 on podcasts. He's like, cause you, you go on 02:21:19.520 --> 02:21:21.840 there and you have your points, but you'll get 02:21:21.840 --> 02:21:24.819 revealed over the course of a few hours. Like 02:21:24.819 --> 02:21:27.260 you can only stick to these lines. Yeah. You 02:21:27.260 --> 02:21:29.200 can only be talking points and bullshit for then. 02:21:30.030 --> 02:21:31.870 And then what happens is people just, like, there 02:21:31.870 --> 02:21:33.690 was an art to, like, look at how great they're 02:21:33.690 --> 02:21:35.430 communicating. They stick to the message and 02:21:35.430 --> 02:21:38.770 they do their points. Okay, 30 seconds, 60 seconds. 02:21:38.909 --> 02:21:40.870 But any longer than that, it just starts to look 02:21:40.870 --> 02:21:43.389 like a fucking robot on, you know. And like I 02:21:43.389 --> 02:21:46.209 said, what we need to follow through with, you 02:21:46.209 --> 02:21:47.729 know, like, yeah, no, I saw you do the same hand 02:21:47.729 --> 02:21:49.649 gesture and the same bit with that. But, you 02:21:49.649 --> 02:21:51.489 know. Sometimes you find out they're full of 02:21:51.489 --> 02:21:53.209 shit just by having them talk about other things. 02:21:53.739 --> 02:21:55.840 You know, like, tell me, do you like cooking? 02:21:55.959 --> 02:21:58.260 You know, like, just like, and then you just 02:21:58.260 --> 02:22:00.659 see, like, some concocted. They're thinking, 02:22:00.700 --> 02:22:03.180 what makes me look good about cooking? Exactly. 02:22:03.639 --> 02:22:05.340 Well, I'll tell you what, because what would 02:22:05.340 --> 02:22:08.819 the focus group say? That's exactly it. Do I 02:22:08.819 --> 02:22:11.840 cook or do I not? Does that make me feminine 02:22:11.840 --> 02:22:15.479 or does it make me open to cultural? Yeah. What 02:22:15.479 --> 02:22:18.059 do you like to cook, man? I don't cook. Well, 02:22:18.399 --> 02:22:20.079 that's the other thing about people that are 02:22:20.079 --> 02:22:23.120 online too much is they're so concerned. with 02:22:23.120 --> 02:22:25.379 other people's opinions, that they don't have 02:22:25.379 --> 02:22:28.420 enough time to formulate their own. They're just 02:22:28.420 --> 02:22:30.500 so concerned with how people are going to perceive 02:22:30.500 --> 02:22:32.479 everything you say that you're like handcuffed. 02:22:32.700 --> 02:22:36.180 You're like terrified to misspeak. Right, right. 02:22:36.559 --> 02:22:38.959 I think that in general is a real fucking danger. 02:22:39.059 --> 02:22:40.420 I mean, we were talking the other day, we were 02:22:40.420 --> 02:22:43.260 saying about like one of the benefits of getting 02:22:43.260 --> 02:22:46.940 older and doing this for a long time is... you 02:22:46.940 --> 02:22:49.100 realize, like, nobody really gives a shit as 02:22:49.100 --> 02:22:52.860 much about you as you thought. You spend your 02:22:52.860 --> 02:22:55.420 20s and 30s thinking, like, this is really important, 02:22:55.559 --> 02:22:57.520 and then you realize no one fucking cares. No 02:22:57.520 --> 02:23:00.299 one actually cares. It's not that big a deal. 02:23:00.700 --> 02:23:02.819 Most people are mostly worried about themselves 02:23:02.819 --> 02:23:05.379 and their life. Yeah, there's this illusion that 02:23:05.379 --> 02:23:07.700 they pay a passing moment of attention or it's 02:23:07.700 --> 02:23:10.340 in some story. It's like, you're fucking staring 02:23:10.340 --> 02:23:13.680 at it because it's about you. You said that about 02:23:13.680 --> 02:23:16.930 me. Nobody else really fucking cares. And if 02:23:16.930 --> 02:23:19.309 they do, they're usually fucked up, like something's 02:23:19.309 --> 02:23:20.649 wrong. Why are you concentrating on this other 02:23:20.649 --> 02:23:23.049 person's life? You're probably trying to ignore 02:23:23.049 --> 02:23:26.750 your own bullshit. Well, listen, man, your movie's 02:23:26.750 --> 02:23:29.930 fucking awesome. I've loved so much of you. your 02:23:29.930 --> 02:23:31.750 films over the years so it's been really cool 02:23:31.750 --> 02:23:33.309 to be able to have you guys in here and talk 02:23:33.309 --> 02:23:35.170 about this it's been great thanks for having 02:23:35.170 --> 02:23:39.969 me two very normal nice movie stars you guys 02:23:39.969 --> 02:23:41.569 are cool as fuck give us a couple more hours 02:23:41.569 --> 02:23:44.569 yeah exactly I enjoyed it and I really enjoyed 02:23:44.569 --> 02:23:47.329 the rip it's fucking great and everybody go see 02:23:47.329 --> 02:23:49.870 it it's great I loved it thank you thanks for 02:23:49.870 --> 02:23:51.489 being here alright it's a pleasure bye everybody