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Welcome to this curated educational transcript of the Joe Rogan Experience. In this session, we examine the critical perspectives and historical dialogues presented in Episode #[Número del Episodio]. Our goal is to provide a searchable, high-fidelity research resource for students of cultural history, technology, and global discourse. This transcript has been optimized for academic reference and archival preservation regarding
Two one boom and we're live first of all cheers

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gentlemen. Let's have a little toast relax Bob

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Thank you very much for doing this. I really

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appreciate it. I understand that you've told

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the story many many times You've been grilled

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many many times, and it's very stressful for

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you, so I really really appreciate your time

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for people who don't know the story There is

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a documentary Jeremy Corbell has a documentary

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out right now. It's called Bob Lazar Area 51

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in UFOs and flying saucers. I first heard your

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story decades ago. I told you last night we went

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out to dinner. I've seen pretty much every interview

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you've ever given. I've followed the story incredibly

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closely. But for people who don't know the story,

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let's give them the bullet points. Used to work

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at area 51 and area 51 you got you you went like

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Well, you know, we want to be accurate. Okay

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area s4 s4 about 15 miles south of area 51. Okay,

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but um you worked in What would you how would

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you describe it? I guess within the area 51 compound

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you can call that a subset of area 51 And you

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got that job. Before that, you were working...

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Before that, I had worked at Los Alamos National

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Labs in New Mexico. And you were involved in

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what kind of work? Nuclear weapon development,

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physics. I mean, they do everything there. So

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how do they approach you to say, hey, Bob, why

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don't you come on out to the Nevada desert? Well,

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the way this went down was... At that time, it

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was 1982, I had put a jet engine in my Honda,

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and Los Alamos put it on the front page of the

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paper. Said, you know, Los Alamos man, physicist

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at the lab, you know, built this 200 mile an

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hour, you know, Honda jet car. I drove to work

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every day. So I was known in Los Alamos, the

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guy with the weird car, and you could hear it

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from a mile away. Anyway, the day that came out

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on the front page of the paper was the day Edward

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Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, was

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giving a lecture down there at the lab. And we

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didn't have much going on that day in our group,

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and I asked if I could go down there. And I went

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down there early. And Ed Teller was outside,

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leaning on a brick wall there and reading the

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front page of the paper. Now this guy had a history,

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so I introduced myself, hey, I'm the guy you're

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reading about there, and we talked for a little

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while and it was cool. You know, fast forward

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to years later, I had moved out to Las Vegas

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and had, you know, left Los Alamos and, you know,

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went on to other things, and I wanted to get

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back into the scientific community. You know,

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I left to start other businesses and... And that

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sort of thing. So I sent resumes out and one

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of them went out to Ed Teller and referenced

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our meeting you know back at back in that the

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day and anyway, he remembered me and Gave me

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a reference somebody to contact the DG and G

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and that's pretty much how it started So you

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get a phone call or a letter like what do you

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get? Well, I got uh, what did I get? I got a

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letter initially and went down for an interview

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probably a couple times and it was down at EG

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&G Special Projects which was at McCarran Airport

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at that time out in Las Vegas. And did they give

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you any sort of job description of what you were

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applying for? They said it was for, I can't remember

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exactly what they did, this was a long time ago,

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but I think it was advanced propulsion or something

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like that something relatively generic and they

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said it's in a remote area you know it's going

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to be some days on some days off and you know

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it was kind of a it was kind of not exactly a

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full -time job but you might have to be out there

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for two weeks at a time and take two weeks off

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so it was kind of a the work schedule would be

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kind of broken up And did this seem attractive

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to you, or did it seem weird? No, it really wasn't

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weird, because people that work at the test site,

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anybody that's familiar with the area up there,

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you know, working at the nuclear test site, or

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at the Tonopah test range north of there, that's

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typically how things go. So you had known about

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it from the scientific community? Because Area

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51 at that time was still classified? No, they

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didn't say anything about Area 51. They just

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said it was in a remote location. and you just

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know it was up at the test site right so but

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there was no mention of area 51 at that time

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so they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in

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nevada nevada that that whole area was there's

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been just giant chunks of nevada the people yeah

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there's a big piece of Nevada and it's split

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up into different areas. There's a nuclear test

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site. There's area 51. There's the Tonopah test

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range north of that. There's little sub areas.

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There's areas where they test chemical weapons

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and things like that. So it's all broken up as

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a, you know, gigantic test area. So take me back

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to first day on the job. You accept the job.

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They take you out there. Yeah. It's, um, The

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first day really I didn't really get to see a

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whole lot the first day was essentially just

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paperwork that's when I flew into area 51 proper

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and I left McCarran Airport and flew what they

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call the Janet flights just You know a passenger

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plane from Las Vegas to area 51 and It was really

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just going through a mountain of paperwork that

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day from security clearances to God there was

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it was like two or three hours of just solid

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paperwork and that was that was really an uneventful

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first day When did things get weird? When did

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you realize they at what point in time did you

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say hey? This is not normal work like this doesn't

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even seem like it's from this planet That I can't

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tell you what day that occurred on because so

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much time has gone by the days have kind of fused

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into one and I can't separate the days. Was it

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a slow burn or was there a moment of recognition?

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Well, the first inkling I had was when I came

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in. There's this facility that is at S4. It's

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in the side of a mountain. And normally we had

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pulled in with the bus and gone around the front

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through a normal double door. This time that

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I went in, there were hanger doors open. I went

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into the hanger door, and in the hanger door

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was the disc, the flying saucer that I worked

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on. I saw it sitting there, and we walked by

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it, it had a little American flag stuck on the

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side, and I thought, oh my God, this finally

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explains all the flying saucer stories, this

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is just an advanced fighter, and this is fucking

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hilarious. So I went by, I slid my hand alongside

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it, I got reprimanded immediately for touching

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the thing. And there was a guy, an armed guard,

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that followed us in and just said, keep your

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eyes forward and your hands at your side and

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just walk in the door. So that was the first

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time I had seen anything that was weird. It was

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some time later that I was introduced to my lab

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partner, Barry. And we had some of the subcomponents

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of the craft in the lab. And Barry was very anxious

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to get a new lab partner. So he was very talkative

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and couldn't wait to show me different things.

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And it was in the demonstration of the reactor

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working where it caught my attention to where

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this is technology that doesn't even exist. So,

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I mean, that was the first time I knew that this

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is really something different. What was it? What

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was it about this reactor that made you think

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that it didn't exist? Technologically. Well,

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it was that I actually have to back up because

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there were some briefings that I read it before

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that that You know certainly gave me the impression

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that this was going to be a weird job But this

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was the first hands -on thing this was a small

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reactor about the size of a hemisphere about

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the size of a basketball on a metal plate and

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When it was running It produced a gravitational

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field, a gravitational field of its own. Now,

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this is something that we can't do. We can't

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produce any gravity. The only way we get gravity

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is from large quantities of mass. But there's

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no machine we can have that turns on that makes

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gravity, like, you know, you can turn on an electromagnet

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and it makes a magnetic field. We can't make

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a gravitational field. Anyway, this device was

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producing that. And Barry said, almost like he

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was bragging, go ahead, try and touch the sphere.

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I couldn't. It pushed my hands away, just like

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two light poles of a magnet. So that was... So

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like when you take two magnets and you're trying

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to press them together and they push against

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each other? Yeah, kind of a cushion feeling,

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but you can't get them together. The closer you

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put them, the more they push. And you felt that

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physically with your hand? With my hand. Yeah,

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now there's nothing that does that. And that

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immediately caught my attention going, wow, this

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is something else. What was your thought, like

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when you felt that and you knew that there was

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nothing that you were aware of that could produce

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this? Then that connected me to the briefings

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that I read on the first day at S4 was that,

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you know, everything that I had read was apparently

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accurate. What were you reading? It was kind

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of an overview. This project, was to back -engineer

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the alien craft, and specifically it was to try

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and back -engineer and see if we can duplicate

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the technology with available materials. Now

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to do this, they split the project into many

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different pieces for several reasons. They do

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this on all classified projects, so nobody has

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the complete story. but they compartmentalize

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everything. Now we had the power and propulsion

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system. So what briefings they gave me were like

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a one or two page overview of some of the other

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projects that were going on, you know, on the

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craft. The only reason they do that is just in

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case what you're working on is connected intimately

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in some way that we don't know of to one of the

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other projects, you have to know their, excuse

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me, their existence. So You know I bet again

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everything from metallurgy to You know weapon

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potential of the craft and these were all you

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know essentially very short briefings, but mine

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was just power and propulsion and It made it

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very clear that what I read was accurate. So

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when you're reading that before you actually

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saw the reactor What were your thoughts on what

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they were describing? If you knew that something

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like that didn't exist, and they're describing

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it in the briefings, what did you think you were

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going to see? I really, I didn't know at the

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time. I mean, I was reading, I thought, is this

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some kind of test? To see if you're crazy? Well,

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not to see if I'm crazy. You know, a lot of times

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they'll take real high -security jobs. I mean,

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they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them.

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Whether it's to confuse the fact or if for someone

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was to leak it out they would carry that information

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along and know where it came from. So I read

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through the documents but you know I didn't know

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if this was you know part of some kind of test

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or you know or what or was it potentially realistic.

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I mean I really didn't consider it being all

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that possible as far as being the actual thing

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that I was going to work on at the time. How

00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:32.779
did they turn it on? The reactor? Yeah. The reactor

00:12:32.779 --> 00:12:35.120
can be turned on or turned off in a lot of different

00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.120
ways. The way Barry showed me, the hemisphere

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.059
is removed. There's a small tower in the middle.

00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.840
When you put the hemisphere on, the reactor activates.

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The reactor shuts down. It's load sensing. So

00:12:49.899 --> 00:12:53.080
if there's no load on the reactor at all, it

00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.639
shuts down. When there's a load present on it,

00:12:55.820 --> 00:12:59.539
it starts up again. Load meaning? You can consider

00:12:59.539 --> 00:13:05.259
it an electrical load. Although it doesn't necessarily

00:13:05.259 --> 00:13:08.480
operate electrically, there's no wiring that

00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:11.080
connects any of the subcomponents together whatsoever.

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They just have to be in the immediate vicinity.

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The stuff is borderline magic. essentially where

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we left it, you know, when I left the project.

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So there was no progress made? There was some

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progress. I mean, we did identify, at least we

00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.700
think, some processes and had a rough idea. We

00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:36.000
think of what was going on. But I think this

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is a problem that they've had for a long time.

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And, you know, I was replacing somebody that

00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.059
Barry worked with prior to me. And I think there

00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:49.049
was some horrific accident. that I didn't have

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a whole lot of information on, but you know Barry

00:13:51.450 --> 00:13:54.730
alluded to that. A horrific accident like where

00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:57.590
someone died or? Yeah, where somebody died. Because

00:13:57.590 --> 00:13:59.730
they were trying to tamper with things or figure

00:13:59.730 --> 00:14:02.529
out how something worked? Yeah, the reactor in

00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:06.350
particular. But yet he let you touch it? Yeah,

00:14:06.350 --> 00:14:08.970
I think what they were trying to do was cut into

00:14:08.970 --> 00:14:11.769
one. Now they had they had more than one there

00:14:11.769 --> 00:14:14.289
and that was supposedly there was an unannounced

00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:18.220
nuclear test. And that's what it was. At the

00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:19.799
time, remember, they were still doing underground

00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:23.320
nuclear tests at the test site. But from what

00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.019
I understand, according to Barry, there was an

00:14:26.019 --> 00:14:27.759
attempt made. Now, this must have been a pretty

00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:30.860
desperate attempt because it's not a very scientific

00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:33.740
process to cut, you know, analyze something that

00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:35.940
way. But it looked like they used a plasma cutter

00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:38.720
or something like that to cut into an operating

00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.879
reactor. How many of these things did they have?

00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:44.759
They had nine craft altogether. I only got hands

00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:49.019
-on with one of them, so I can't really say how

00:14:49.019 --> 00:14:50.899
the others operated. Did you see the other ones?

00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:54.259
Yeah. At one time, and only one time, the bay

00:14:54.259 --> 00:14:57.120
doors between the hangars were all open, and

00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:01.220
I could see all the way through. And were they

00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:03.360
all exactly the same? No, they were all different.

00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:06.919
Different shapes? Yeah. But they were all from

00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:11.230
somewhere else? Yeah, absolutely. Now, Did anyone

00:15:11.230 --> 00:15:16.110
make any attempt to explain or to to tell you

00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:19.129
where they came from? No, no, no one is the least

00:15:19.129 --> 00:15:21.950
bit interested in letting everybody know all

00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:23.649
the facts. They want to give you the minimum

00:15:23.649 --> 00:15:25.990
information that's necessary to complete your

00:15:25.990 --> 00:15:28.570
task. So you're not getting the story of where

00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:30.970
they came from. You're not getting the story

00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:33.470
of what how much progress other people are making.

00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:37.190
You just focus on the small component. But they

00:15:37.190 --> 00:15:38.929
gave you some indication that they've been working

00:15:38.929 --> 00:15:41.990
on these for a while. Yeah. When do you think

00:15:41.990 --> 00:15:47.590
they acquired these? I really couldn't say. I

00:15:47.590 --> 00:15:52.009
think they've been around for a while. So they

00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:55.429
bring you into this room, you see this reactor

00:15:55.429 --> 00:15:58.850
working, you realize this is nothing that as

00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.470
far as like the scientific community at current

00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:06.029
time has the ability to create. We still don't.

00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.879
What is your life like from that moment on is

00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.700
that where everything changes because you do

00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:13.820
I mean I would imagine the moment you actually

00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:16.799
make contact With something that's extraterrestrial

00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.139
whether it's an object or a being something where

00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:22.220
you can actually absolutely be certain It's not

00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:26.100
from here your whole paradigm the whole world

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.700
you live in is now a different place Well, this

00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:31.789
is the only time it became exciting You know

00:16:31.789 --> 00:16:35.370
the rest of the time that it was really an ominous

00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:38.710
feeling being at work But it at that time it

00:16:38.710 --> 00:16:41.950
was exciting I mean this was now I knew we were

00:16:41.950 --> 00:16:44.730
on the absolute beyond actually beyond the cutting

00:16:44.730 --> 00:16:48.750
edge of science and I was I was so Absolutely

00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:53.049
excited to be there every single time I was you

00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:58.769
know, it was a fantastic opportunity and However

00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:04.900
In short order it began to concern me we really

00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:10.119
have no idea what we're talking about and The

00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:13.720
excitement kind of turned to dread at some point

00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:17.160
because the amount of power we're dealing with

00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.140
is Astronomical, I mean to affect gravity to

00:17:21.140 --> 00:17:24.079
produce the effects like this equipment does

00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:28.200
takes huge amounts of power and I've given the

00:17:29.289 --> 00:17:32.509
example before of you know taking a small portable

00:17:32.509 --> 00:17:35.089
nuclear reactor and you know putting it back

00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:37.470
into Victorian times, you know with the scientists

00:17:37.470 --> 00:17:41.049
of the time and Just dropping it in a room and

00:17:41.049 --> 00:17:42.970
they come and look at it and see that it's producing

00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:45.809
power and wonder how it works that they start

00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:49.430
taking it apart and As soon as they get some

00:17:49.430 --> 00:17:51.369
of the shielding off the people are gonna drop

00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:54.309
dead because of the radiation inside Now the

00:17:54.309 --> 00:17:57.430
people have no idea that even radiation even

00:17:57.430 --> 00:18:00.210
exists back then but anybody that comes in to

00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:04.230
check on him will also drop dead. And, you know,

00:18:04.849 --> 00:18:08.150
there's no reason that that exact scenario couldn't

00:18:08.150 --> 00:18:10.369
happen with what we're dealing with. We have

00:18:10.369 --> 00:18:13.950
no idea how the physics operate within this thing.

00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.369
The power levels are, like I said, astronomical.

00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:20.230
It's incredibly dangerous to tinker with something

00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:23.599
like that. And, you know, in some respects we

00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:25.720
were guinea pigs. Just try to find out how to

00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.960
make this thing. So they'd had a series, as far

00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.200
as you're surmised, they had a series of different

00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.160
scientists try to back -engineer this thing,

00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:36.140
try to figure out what this thing was, and they

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:37.819
would bring in new people and like, let's throw

00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:40.759
Bob at it. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd know... I don't

00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:42.819
know how many, but I knew there was certainly

00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:46.440
one before me, and I knew he died during the

00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.059
analysis of the, or the reactor itself. And...

00:18:51.029 --> 00:18:54.029
You don't know how many have worked on it and

00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:57.430
no one gave this could have been there for 50

00:18:57.430 --> 00:18:59.410
years It could have been there for five years

00:18:59.410 --> 00:19:01.150
when they're giving you instructions. What are

00:19:01.150 --> 00:19:03.190
they saying? Like when they're giving you direction

00:19:03.190 --> 00:19:04.869
They're showing you all this stuff. Like what

00:19:04.869 --> 00:19:06.710
what are they saying? What specifically what

00:19:06.710 --> 00:19:09.420
are they asking of you? Well, essentially what

00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:12.559
they ask is what I said. We are just to gather

00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:14.839
as much information as possible, find out how

00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:16.960
it operates, and see if we can duplicate it.

00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.680
But they never told you where it was from. They

00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.420
never let you ask questions about where it's

00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:26.559
from. Well, if the information I read in the

00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.019
briefings was accurate, now what I do have to

00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:32.119
say is the information that pertained directly

00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:39.180
to the reactor was accurate. What I read I mean,

00:19:39.500 --> 00:19:43.480
did jive with reality. In terms of how? In terms

00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.500
of how it was made, what we saw, how it operated,

00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:50.500
the materials, how it turned on, and what was

00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:55.519
discovered about it. I'm sorry, the migraine

00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.339
is really making it hard for me to think here.

00:19:57.380 --> 00:19:59.980
Sorry, no, we talked that before the podcast.

00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:01.599
You tell everybody Bob is getting a migraine.

00:20:01.660 --> 00:20:03.220
I know you're very stressed out by this, which

00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:04.740
is one of the reasons why I appreciate you doing

00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:09.130
this. Where was I already? We were talking about

00:20:09.130 --> 00:20:14.130
it when you explained it. So there was some paperwork

00:20:14.130 --> 00:20:18.049
that indicated that this was from the Zeta Reticuli

00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:24.589
star system. Now how they obtained that, I haven't

00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:27.329
the slightest idea, but it wasn't just from the

00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:30.490
Zeta Reticuli star system, it was what they called

00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:34.369
ZR3, so it was a third planet in that star system.

00:20:35.589 --> 00:20:38.089
There was no other information about it other

00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:40.569
than that's supposedly where the craft came from.

00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:42.569
Now, is that true? I don't know. I have no way

00:20:42.569 --> 00:20:44.470
of verifying that, but that was printed in the

00:20:44.470 --> 00:20:47.630
same materials that referenced the reactor. Now,

00:20:47.630 --> 00:20:51.609
I looked that stuff up when I went home, and

00:20:51.609 --> 00:20:55.670
Zeta Reticuli is a binary star, two stars that

00:20:55.670 --> 00:20:58.269
orbit one another, and it's only visible in the

00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:00.349
southern hemisphere, and it's about 30 some odd

00:21:00.349 --> 00:21:03.109
light years away. So that's literally all the

00:21:03.109 --> 00:21:05.029
information I have about that. I don't know how

00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:07.890
they found out it came from there. And you also

00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:10.250
probably have some suspicions that they give

00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:12.329
you some disinformation like you were talking

00:21:12.329 --> 00:21:16.950
about before. Yeah. I mean, if you ever decided

00:21:16.950 --> 00:21:18.970
to talk about this, they added a bunch of nonsense

00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:21.369
to make whatever is factual look ridiculous.

00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:24.470
Right. Or be able to trace it down. Like, hey,

00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:27.029
this fax came out and, you know, this Lazar guy

00:21:27.029 --> 00:21:29.410
said it. you know came from zeta reticuli so

00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:32.630
they knew it was when you read zeta reticuli

00:21:32.630 --> 00:21:36.069
we're like what in the fuck is this well reading

00:21:36.069 --> 00:21:38.769
all of the stuff it was what in the fuck is this

00:21:38.769 --> 00:21:40.869
you're like why did i sign up for this like no

00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:43.690
no it would to me this was cool this was interesting

00:21:43.690 --> 00:21:46.289
i said i was just excited to be out in a secure

00:21:46.289 --> 00:21:48.309
area you know in the middle of the desert as

00:21:48.309 --> 00:21:50.569
it this is awesome how old are you at the time

00:21:50.569 --> 00:21:55.250
i guess as in my 20s yes you probably Totally

00:21:55.250 --> 00:21:57.869
geeked out. Oh, yeah, it's that this was this

00:21:57.869 --> 00:22:00.609
was great. I mean, I was excited. So I didn't

00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:03.109
care I've reading through everything and so you

00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:04.509
read through all the zeta reticuli thing But

00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:06.670
then when you see the actual starship with the

00:22:06.670 --> 00:22:08.910
little American flag sticker on it. Well, that

00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:16.130
was Was that later or before? that That was before

00:22:16.130 --> 00:22:18.329
so before so you see the thing before and you

00:22:18.329 --> 00:22:21.089
say oh, wait, was that before it hard so many

00:22:21.089 --> 00:22:24.099
years? Yeah, I can't Either way, it doesn't matter.

00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:26.599
The days have fused together. It's so hard to

00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:29.160
separate what happened in each visit. Do you

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.960
remember the thought process when you read that

00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.680
it's from Zeta reticuli? Yeah, it didn't hit

00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.700
me like a ton of bricks or anything. It was just

00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:39.279
like, yeah, okay. You think it was bullshit?

00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.900
I don't know. Now I don't. I mean, because when

00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:45.619
I read it, I hadn't verified anything, and this

00:22:45.619 --> 00:22:47.900
was just a bunch of stuff I was reading, and

00:22:47.900 --> 00:22:49.500
I thought maybe after this they're just going

00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:51.799
to give me a test and see what I can remember

00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:56.960
in crazy information. But like I said, when I

00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.900
finally went in with Barry and had hands -on

00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:05.440
experience with what they were talking about,

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.680
it had gone a completely different meaning. So

00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:10.400
there's a plate there's this thing that looks

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.920
like a half of basketball and when it's on you

00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:14.819
can't come anywhere near it You can't touch it,

00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:18.859
right? How is it? What is? Gravity about that

00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:21.299
like the the concept of gravity to most people's

00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:22.940
gravity is bringing something towards it, right?

00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:25.039
Well, I guess you would say it's anti gravity.

00:23:25.059 --> 00:23:28.599
It's gravity shifted 180 degrees. It's a you

00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:34.059
know any gravity and Did they have any understanding

00:23:34.059 --> 00:23:37.339
about what could possibly create this effect?

00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.940
Did they have any areas where they'd like you

00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:48.400
to look into? No, they Well They knew there was

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.000
a fuel source in it and They were proficient

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.720
at making it work and again my analogy to something

00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.240
like this is you can drop a Motorcycle off in

00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.319
the wagon train days and just leave it with the

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.180
keys parked outside, you know somebody's place

00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:05.299
Everybody will come around it and they'll poke

00:24:05.299 --> 00:24:07.539
and prod and eventually They'll turn the key,

00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.240
get it to start and become proficient at writing

00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.319
it. Yeah. But they won't be able to understand

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:16.039
what the hell's going on. They won't be able

00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:18.480
to make the plastic fender, much less anything

00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.019
else. And I think that's exactly the state we

00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:23.240
were at. We played around with the parts long

00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.420
enough before I got there where they could make

00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:29.980
the reactor operate, take the fuel out and know

00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:34.440
that it makes it work. How exactly what was going

00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.690
on in the reactor We remained a mystery at the

00:24:38.690 --> 00:24:43.329
time. I think we made some progress on what was

00:24:43.329 --> 00:24:46.890
going on inside, but I don't think anybody really

00:24:46.890 --> 00:24:48.829
knew anything. They could just watch what was

00:24:48.829 --> 00:24:51.490
going on and make note of it. How long were you

00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:55.049
there? I'd say about six months or so. And what

00:24:55.049 --> 00:24:58.170
progress was made while you were there? Well,

00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:03.089
we came up with a bunch of reasonably good ideas

00:25:03.089 --> 00:25:06.700
about how the reactor worked. And one of them

00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:09.759
was the base, the square base of it was essentially

00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.599
like a cyclotron, which is a small particle accelerator,

00:25:13.099 --> 00:25:15.819
a circular one. Particle accelerators, linear

00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:19.079
particle accelerators are just a, you know, long

00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:21.119
tube essentially, and they accelerate particles

00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.680
with high voltage and, you know, radio frequencies

00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.099
till they reach high speeds. But a cyclotron

00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:30.220
does that in a small circular area. And there's

00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:34.569
this very heavy element fuel element 115 something

00:25:34.569 --> 00:25:37.609
that wasn't on our periodic charts at the time

00:25:37.609 --> 00:25:40.630
but it is now it is now yeah when did it become

00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:43.470
on the periodic table now the way the charts

00:25:43.470 --> 00:25:45.589
now you know I don't remember do you remember

00:25:45.589 --> 00:25:49.849
when they 2004 Dermstadt Germany I think is where

00:25:49.849 --> 00:25:51.930
they first fabricated four atoms that lasted

00:25:51.930 --> 00:25:54.670
220 milliseconds with the atoms it's nothing

00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:57.289
right and then it later was discovered a couple

00:25:57.289 --> 00:25:59.559
more times they could fabricate it Then they

00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.099
gave it, they gave it a place then on the periodic

00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:05.319
chart after that called it Muscovian. So they

00:26:05.319 --> 00:26:10.819
told you about this stuff in 1982? Yeah, well,

00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:13.779
we kind of... Not 1982. What year was this? It

00:26:13.779 --> 00:26:17.740
was 88 and 89 when I was there. 82 was when I

00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:21.160
was in Los Alamos. I'm sorry. Yeah. So 88, 89,

00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.039
they told you about this stuff. So this was not

00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.759
like... No, they didn't tell me about it. That's

00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:27.960
one of the things that this group came up with.

00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.420
The... God, I keep losing my train of thought

00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:38.559
with this thing. So this one area, this element

00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:51.339
115 was the fuel. Yeah, it was the fuel. The

00:26:51.339 --> 00:26:53.599
world will forgive you for having a migraine.

00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:55.940
It's really hard to think through this. Just

00:26:55.940 --> 00:26:57.380
give me a minute. We'll just give you more boost.

00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.259
I just want to say, yeah, definitely. As I say

00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:02.039
one thing, you know, Bob, for the last 30 years,

00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:04.900
people have just been on the attack on Bob, you

00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:07.119
know, getting to know him, the personal effects

00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.380
on his life. It's really hard to understand unless

00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:12.410
you meet his family and his wife. I mean this

00:27:12.410 --> 00:27:14.849
is the last thing he wanted to fucking do was

00:27:14.849 --> 00:27:17.250
have to talk Yeah, we should explain that Jeremy

00:27:17.250 --> 00:27:19.170
that you and I had this conversation. I watched

00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:22.390
your documentary We had this conversation and

00:27:22.390 --> 00:27:25.309
I said I have to talk to him. Yeah the document

00:27:25.309 --> 00:27:28.170
there was there's been detractors There's been

00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.390
a bunch of people that called bullshit on many

00:27:30.390 --> 00:27:32.990
of the things that you've said but over time

00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:36.170
Many of the things that you talked about even

00:27:36.170 --> 00:27:39.269
in the 80s have proven to be true things that

00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:41.730
people said were not true were proven to be true

00:27:41.730 --> 00:27:46.269
element 115 was one of them right right right

00:27:46.269 --> 00:27:50.450
element 115 the fuel they had was stable in other

00:27:50.450 --> 00:27:53.269
words it didn't decay it wasn't emitting radioactivity

00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:57.089
um when they synthesized the two or three atoms

00:27:57.089 --> 00:28:02.049
of the 115 uh it did decay and it was not a stable

00:28:02.049 --> 00:28:04.150
element so they're they're kind of two different

00:28:04.150 --> 00:28:07.910
things but this is kind of typical elements always

00:28:07.910 --> 00:28:11.309
have, or pretty much always have, stable isotopes

00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:15.029
and unstable isotopes. I think cesium has like

00:28:15.029 --> 00:28:18.910
30 unstable isotopes to it. Well, hydrogen, for

00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:22.809
example, you're familiar with hydrogen gas. It's

00:28:22.809 --> 00:28:25.230
stable, it's not radioactive, but there's also

00:28:25.230 --> 00:28:29.430
two other types of hydrogen, deuterium and tritium.

00:28:30.549 --> 00:28:32.650
Deuterium isn't radioactive, it's another...

00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:36.160
stable isotope of hydrogen, but tritium is radioactive.

00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:38.799
Now they're all hydrogen, but they just have

00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.680
a different amounts of neutrons. So it's the

00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.460
same thing with other elements and element 115.

00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:49.400
Depending on the amount of neutrons it has, designates

00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:53.339
the isotope, but it's 115. They will continue

00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:58.819
to take or experiment and try and make 115 at

00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:00.660
different isotopes, and I'm sure eventually they'll

00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:03.160
come up with a stable version, but it's the stable

00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:05.740
version that has the properties that we're talking

00:29:05.740 --> 00:29:09.160
about. So they somehow or another had acquired

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.240
a stable version. Did they say that the stable

00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.440
version had come with this craft? Yeah, it absolutely

00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:17.039
came with the craft, yeah. So at the time, you

00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.299
having a firm knowledge of the periodic chart

00:29:19.299 --> 00:29:21.740
and knowing what was real and what wasn't real,

00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:24.710
what was your... reaction to having this stable

00:29:24.710 --> 00:29:27.450
element 115 that wasn't even supposed to exist

00:29:27.450 --> 00:29:30.369
well everything was impossible right i mean down

00:29:30.369 --> 00:29:34.089
down to the metal i i did get a chance uh...

00:29:34.089 --> 00:29:37.069
to look inside the craft on only one occasion

00:29:37.069 --> 00:29:40.990
and this was important because uh... where the

00:29:40.990 --> 00:29:43.970
reactor sat might have been critical to how it

00:29:43.970 --> 00:29:47.059
operated since everything operates without any

00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:49.480
interconnections, so the placement of components

00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.599
might be critical. So they allowed me to go inside

00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:57.900
and look at it. Again, I forgot where the hell

00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:01.059
I am. So you're going into this craft, and what

00:30:01.059 --> 00:30:02.940
are you thinking when you're inside of it? Like,

00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:07.799
what are you seeing? It's a very ominous feeling,

00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:11.279
because it's... There are no... First of all,

00:30:11.299 --> 00:30:13.759
everything is one color. It's like a dark pewter

00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:17.509
color. And there are no right angles anywhere.

00:30:18.109 --> 00:30:21.190
It's as if somebody took, I've said this before,

00:30:21.589 --> 00:30:24.910
somebody took a model out of, and fashioned it

00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.410
out of wax, and then heated it just for a short

00:30:27.410 --> 00:30:29.690
time so everything melted. Everything looks like

00:30:29.690 --> 00:30:31.690
it's fused together. Everything has a radius

00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:36.910
of curvature where two items meet. It's a really

00:30:36.910 --> 00:30:44.200
weird looking thing. There was almost nothing

00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.339
other than a small foldable hatchway that looked

00:30:49.339 --> 00:30:54.519
recognizable. Everything was really unworldly

00:30:54.519 --> 00:30:58.160
to pick on it, a way to describe it. So you get

00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:00.779
inside this thing and it's designed for something

00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:02.640
that's much smaller than a human being? Yeah,

00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:04.420
you can't really stand up till you get to the

00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:06.779
very center of it. And how tall are you? I'm

00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.579
5 '10". And what do you think this was designed

00:31:09.579 --> 00:31:12.349
for? I'd say something close to half my height.

00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:16.569
Wow. So these little three foot tallish creatures.

00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:20.230
Yeah, and the seats were small too. I mean, obviously

00:31:20.230 --> 00:31:22.809
it was made, you know, for something, something

00:31:22.809 --> 00:31:27.130
small. But there is no, like, there's nothing

00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:29.869
else in there. There's just seats, the reactor,

00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.609
and some of the subcomponents. There's no control

00:31:32.609 --> 00:31:36.470
panels. There's no bathroom. There's no decorative

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.539
uh, components or artwork or anything that you

00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:42.380
would recognize or trim. I mean, it's just a

00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:44.799
very bare bones thing. You're not seeing any

00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:49.579
screens? Well, there are archways around it that

00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:53.559
are part of the superstructure and that one of

00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:57.279
the archways can become transparent. When I was

00:31:57.279 --> 00:31:59.759
in there, there was another group working on

00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.299
one of the archways and you could call that a

00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:07.009
screen, more or less. So through that archway,

00:32:07.089 --> 00:32:10.650
it would be it would maintain the solidity the

00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:14.130
the solid Whatever metal it was. Yeah, but you

00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:16.529
could yeah, it just became transparent Yeah,

00:32:16.769 --> 00:32:19.329
I saw that happen once or twice before I left.

00:32:19.329 --> 00:32:21.170
Did you ask any questions about what the fuck?

00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:24.470
No, there's no asking questions now But when

00:32:24.470 --> 00:32:27.180
you watch something become transparent And you

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:28.880
realize it's still there, but you can now see

00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.819
through it. Yeah, I mean, now that's not that

00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:34.319
impressive. We do have some liquid crystal materials

00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.299
that are like that. You know, they have smart

00:32:37.299 --> 00:32:39.579
glass. Yeah, they call it smart glass. So this

00:32:39.579 --> 00:32:42.059
is just and I don't know if the craft is made

00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:45.279
of, you know, an advanced metal or a ceramic.

00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:49.039
It was cold to the touch. So, you know, I would

00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.960
lean more towards a metal. You're not allowed

00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.660
to ask questions. No the only they work on the

00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:57.759
buddy system so i can only exchange ideas and

00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:01.539
talk to barry. Now this really interferes with

00:33:01.539 --> 00:33:04.299
science because science is based on free discussion.

00:33:05.019 --> 00:33:06.839
And ideally you get a bunch of guys together

00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:09.279
exchange ideas work on problems and that's how

00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:12.619
things move forward but they're so over the top

00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:15.759
concerned about security they split everything

00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.059
off and. Everybody becomes stagnant it it. It

00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:23.960
just destroys any of the progress you can make

00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.700
or at least makes it go so slow They I think

00:33:27.700 --> 00:33:29.440
they wind up shooting themselves in the foot,

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.339
which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck

00:33:33.339 --> 00:33:36.059
that they need to get this madman with a Jet

00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:38.059
-powered Honda come in and see what he could

00:33:38.059 --> 00:33:40.400
do. I think that was an act of desperation I

00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.140
think they wanted someone that thinks out of

00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:44.859
the box and let's just give this guy a try here

00:33:44.859 --> 00:33:47.259
because they weren't and They might have done

00:33:47.259 --> 00:33:50.910
this four more times since you know up to the

00:33:50.910 --> 00:33:52.849
point in time today assuming they're still working

00:33:52.849 --> 00:33:57.470
on this thing and when you see this craft and

00:33:57.470 --> 00:34:00.970
you're inside was there any indication that there

00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:03.809
was an area that they would use to control it

00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:07.329
to pilot was there a pilot seat was there there

00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:10.710
were three seats they sat around uh the reactor

00:34:10.710 --> 00:34:14.250
was in the dead center of it and then equidistant

00:34:14.250 --> 00:34:17.510
around there were three seats so and that's all

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:21.280
There was a large, you would, they're not consoles,

00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:24.880
they're large rectangular objects, also spaced

00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:28.320
equidistant around the center. There's nothing

00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.280
on them, there's no buttons, there's no lights,

00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:31.920
there's no controls. And they look the same color,

00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:33.260
the same thing. Everything is the same color.

00:34:33.260 --> 00:34:37.179
It's just a different shape. Right. And directly

00:34:37.179 --> 00:34:39.079
underneath them, there's three levels in the

00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:42.360
craft. The main level is what we're talking about.

00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.349
Directly under that, Those are the gravity amplifiers

00:34:46.349 --> 00:34:49.190
the big rectangular objects underneath them are

00:34:49.190 --> 00:34:51.829
the gravity emitters that look like for lack

00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:54.250
of a better word a trash can hanging on a pipe

00:34:54.250 --> 00:34:58.710
three of those and then the top layer I this

00:34:58.710 --> 00:35:00.929
is just my personal belief. I think that has

00:35:00.929 --> 00:35:04.550
to do with a Navigation or their version of a

00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:09.150
computer With some planer panels sensor panels

00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:11.269
around the craft that we would call portholes,

00:35:11.309 --> 00:35:13.719
but they're not portals. They're just black areas.

00:35:14.019 --> 00:35:17.239
And I think that just determines its, you know,

00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.380
position in space. But I was, I physically was

00:35:21.380 --> 00:35:24.699
in the center section and I stuck my torso in

00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:26.719
the bottom section and hung upside down so I

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:30.239
could see how the gravity amplifiers were positioned.

00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:33.360
What is roughly the size of this thing? It's,

00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:36.119
I think it, I don't remember from being there,

00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:40.659
but after all this stuff was over I had John

00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:43.099
Andrews, a guy from the testers model corporation.

00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:46.340
And, you know, we sat down and tried to figure

00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:51.260
out from what I saw and known sizes of things.

00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:55.039
And we came up with 52 feet in diameter. So I

00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.380
think that's a small. Yeah. So I think that's

00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:00.280
a fair, a reasonable guess. Now you said there's

00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:03.019
nine of them and you got a brief glimpse at the

00:36:03.019 --> 00:36:06.820
other ones. How are they different? Oh, they

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:08.539
looked completely different. One looked like

00:36:08.539 --> 00:36:12.219
I called a jello mold. and it looked like a classic

00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:14.659
jello mold with the rippled sides to it. One

00:36:14.659 --> 00:36:21.519
was a very flat disc, you know, like a straw

00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:23.699
hat or something like that. That was sitting

00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:27.360
up on its edge and the thin part of it had looked

00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.860
like a projectile had been fired through the

00:36:30.860 --> 00:36:33.139
edge of it. So I don't know if they were attempting

00:36:33.139 --> 00:36:36.780
to see if the metal could be penetrated or if

00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:39.630
something or if that's where the thing came from.

00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:42.889
Maybe it was shot down. But that was the only

00:36:42.889 --> 00:36:45.829
one where I saw there was actual physical damage

00:36:45.829 --> 00:36:49.190
to it. And that one was roughly the same size?

00:36:49.570 --> 00:36:54.489
They were kind of too far away to tell. And did

00:36:54.489 --> 00:36:56.989
there was several teams that were working on

00:36:56.989 --> 00:36:58.469
the propulsion system? So there was different

00:36:58.469 --> 00:37:01.309
teams that were working on these different aircrafts?

00:37:01.469 --> 00:37:06.210
I don't know. I could only assume. Now, when

00:37:06.210 --> 00:37:09.530
you're sitting in this thing, and you're looking

00:37:09.530 --> 00:37:14.210
at this otherworldly craft, your goal is to try

00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:16.889
to figure out how this thing functions. Your

00:37:16.889 --> 00:37:19.010
goal is to try to figure out how this reactor,

00:37:19.869 --> 00:37:22.530
I mean, imagine they would give you more time

00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:25.090
than just one day to check that out. Oh, it wasn't

00:37:25.090 --> 00:37:28.489
one day. Right. Yeah, I mean, this is, Barry

00:37:28.489 --> 00:37:31.550
was there, I think Barry was sleeping there.

00:37:31.809 --> 00:37:34.929
I'm sure they had, that isn't weird, I mean,

00:37:34.929 --> 00:37:36.610
up at the Tonopah Test Range where they work

00:37:36.610 --> 00:37:39.739
on stealth fighters. you know, you go, I think

00:37:39.739 --> 00:37:42.679
three weeks on one week off and you just stay

00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:44.659
up there too. So it's not weird to stay up at

00:37:44.659 --> 00:37:47.420
the test site. Right. So, um, yeah, I think he

00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.880
pretty much he acted like he's been up there

00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:54.659
for a long time. Yeah. Um, but, um, yeah, who

00:37:54.659 --> 00:37:56.420
knows? Do you, do you, do you have contact with

00:37:56.420 --> 00:37:59.559
this guy? No. Oh no. I wish I did. I kind of

00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.820
thought he was going to come out after I did.

00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:06.820
Right. And I think I took so much flack and it's

00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:10.059
so much shit for What went on? I think actually

00:38:10.059 --> 00:38:12.860
I wound up helping security there and everybody

00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:16.019
became afraid of you know doing or saying anything

00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:20.119
after that So what kind of reports did you have

00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:22.340
to give like so you're not making much progress,

00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:23.599
right? You're just trying to figure out what

00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.280
this thing is and it seems impossible So well,

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.960
we didn't personally make them. I mean we were

00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.760
always there was never a lot of information that

00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.250
we gained The guy, you would call him our supervisor,

00:38:37.449 --> 00:38:41.349
his name was Dennis Mariani, and kind of a military

00:38:41.349 --> 00:38:44.730
-looking guy, and he would routinely pop in,

00:38:44.730 --> 00:38:47.570
you know, during the day, and, you know, hey,

00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:50.289
what's going on, guys? And he would essentially

00:38:50.289 --> 00:38:53.110
relay any information, anything new we came up

00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:56.190
with. I mean, he was our go -between, where we

00:38:56.190 --> 00:38:58.070
presented him the information, and then he took

00:38:58.070 --> 00:39:01.130
it to wherever they were, you know. assembling

00:39:01.130 --> 00:39:03.550
all the data from everybody now assume you're

00:39:03.550 --> 00:39:06.750
working normal days like an eight -hour day no

00:39:06.750 --> 00:39:10.190
no no it was really weird that i would be only

00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:13.050
called in on certain times in certain days and

00:39:13.050 --> 00:39:15.949
they would be weird hours to uh... most of the

00:39:15.949 --> 00:39:18.030
time was later in the evening i mean i can get

00:39:18.030 --> 00:39:20.409
a call at eleven o 'clock at night and they'll

00:39:20.409 --> 00:39:24.230
say you know it's now eleven o 'clock uh... by

00:39:24.230 --> 00:39:26.650
eleven forty five you need to be at mccarran

00:39:26.650 --> 00:39:30.460
terminal and uh... You know, we'll let you know

00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:33.619
when we have more information. But what did you

00:39:33.619 --> 00:39:36.440
do while you were there? If you're looking at

00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.460
this object, this reactor, and you can't figure

00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:43.059
out what it is or how it works, other than the

00:39:43.059 --> 00:39:45.000
fact that it works on this element that we don't

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.079
even know about. Sure. I mean, the thing was

00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.900
that what you do, you know, with anything, if

00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:53.840
you're trying to analyze it, all you can do is

00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:57.360
perform tests. And all we did is try and come

00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.019
up with every kind of test we possibly could.

00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:05.619
I mean, we tested, you know, it violated a lot

00:40:05.619 --> 00:40:07.719
of what we thought was impossible to violate.

00:40:08.139 --> 00:40:10.659
I mean, one of the first laws of thermodynamics,

00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:13.539
I mean, essentially, any machine, any device

00:40:13.539 --> 00:40:16.800
that operates always makes extra heat. Nothing

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:20.219
works at 100 % efficient. Even the headphones

00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:23.019
you're wearing, anything that takes power, some

00:40:23.019 --> 00:40:25.340
of that power is going to be converted to heat,

00:40:25.420 --> 00:40:28.780
and it's just wasted. This didn't. I mean, we

00:40:28.780 --> 00:40:31.079
looked at, back then we had infrared cameras.

00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:33.039
They're different today, but back then you had

00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:36.199
to pour liquid nitrogen into the camera to cool

00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:40.059
the sensor down and get these infrared images

00:40:40.059 --> 00:40:43.420
you've seen. But it never got, no matter what

00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:46.980
the load was on the reactor, it never got above

00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.420
the ambient temperature, which is impossible.

00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:54.380
I mean, you're pulling out huge amounts of power

00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:58.699
and nothing ever gets warm. We tried measuring

00:40:58.699 --> 00:41:01.239
magnetic fields and there was nothing there,

00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:04.619
so we started playing around with the emission

00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:07.780
from the emitters, the gravity wave itself, and

00:41:07.780 --> 00:41:11.139
saw what we could do with it and how it was focused.

00:41:11.500 --> 00:41:15.320
So we really spent all our time just trying to

00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.139
see what the stuff can do and what we can control.

00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:21.380
So you were seeing what it could do, but you

00:41:21.380 --> 00:41:23.280
couldn't ever figure out how it was doing it?

00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:27.559
No, not really. I mean we really we really could

00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:31.880
only use a come up with a best guess and Now

00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.139
I can't say we really Right that I could absolutely

00:41:36.139 --> 00:41:39.119
state for certainly or certainty how anything

00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:44.440
actually worked now How did you know at all how

00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.579
they were piloting it because some? They were

00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:50.920
doing some tests where they're having these things

00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:55.579
fly around in the sky And this is what gets us

00:41:55.579 --> 00:42:01.880
deeper into your story. Right. I was out there

00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:08.059
for one test. Right. In fact, I was in with Barry

00:42:08.059 --> 00:42:11.860
in the lab and Dennis came in and said, we're

00:42:11.860 --> 00:42:13.579
about to run a test. Why don't you guys come

00:42:13.579 --> 00:42:16.699
out? Or I think he said, Barry, why don't you

00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:19.719
come out here and bring Bob with you? We went

00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.489
out there and the craft was already outside the

00:42:23.489 --> 00:42:27.230
hangar and was just preparing to lift off. Now,

00:42:27.469 --> 00:42:30.110
they were in communication with somebody in the

00:42:30.110 --> 00:42:32.769
craft. So there was a person in the craft? Yeah,

00:42:32.989 --> 00:42:35.829
there was certainly a person in there. Now, it's

00:42:35.829 --> 00:42:38.070
not a comfortable place to be in because it's

00:42:38.070 --> 00:42:40.489
small, so the guy has to be sitting on the floor

00:42:40.489 --> 00:42:43.429
in the middle, my best guess. And this is the

00:42:43.429 --> 00:42:45.570
same specific craft that you worked on because

00:42:45.570 --> 00:42:47.250
that was the only craft that you were in? The

00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:52.079
only one that I touched and worked on. And it

00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.679
quietly lifted off the ground, which was incredibly

00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:59.820
impressive to see. Quietly or silently? Well,

00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:06.820
quietly, because it produced a little corona

00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:08.920
discharge from the bottom. A corona discharge

00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:11.800
is kind of a high voltage brush, little bluish

00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.059
glow discharge. As it was lifting off the ground,

00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.599
you can hear a slight hiss sound. Now, as soon

00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.000
as it cleared the ground by about 5 or 10 feet,

00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:21.840
maybe even less than that, the hissing stopped

00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.539
and the blue goat disappeared. So it lifted off

00:43:25.539 --> 00:43:28.280
quietly and then it hovered silently, if you

00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.119
want to be specific. Wow. So then what kind of

00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.019
maneuvers was it doing? It took up, for that

00:43:35.019 --> 00:43:37.380
particular time, it took off, moved a little

00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:39.980
around to the left and right, and then sat back

00:43:39.980 --> 00:43:47.829
down. The craft itself They communicated with

00:43:47.829 --> 00:43:52.630
it with a reg because I saw the guy talking In

00:43:52.630 --> 00:43:56.550
a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft

00:43:56.550 --> 00:44:00.170
and I even saw the frequency that was on the

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:03.610
frequency counter of the communication the transceiver

00:44:03.610 --> 00:44:08.130
there But what's weird is he shouldn't be able

00:44:08.130 --> 00:44:11.670
to communicate with the craft with a radio the

00:44:11.670 --> 00:44:15.420
radio The radio wave should bend around the craft

00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:18.380
I mean it shouldn't be possible if every single

00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:21.260
thing about these the craft and the way they

00:44:21.260 --> 00:44:25.239
operated Didn't make any sense to us. I mean

00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:27.300
that's something we talked about for a while

00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:29.460
after Why should the frequency bend around the

00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:32.860
craft? Well? You really have to look at the way

00:44:32.860 --> 00:44:35.579
the gravity wave comes out of the craft There's

00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:38.219
the reactors in the center and there's a wave

00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:40.440
guide that goes up to the top There's actually

00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.500
a small appendage that sticks out of the top

00:44:42.500 --> 00:44:44.880
of the craft and it produces a heart -shaped

00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.599
Gravitational distortion around the craft now

00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.679
if the craft is sitting in the air and you walk

00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:54.920
underneath it and look up You actually cannot

00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:58.340
see the craft the light bends around it. You're

00:44:58.340 --> 00:45:01.599
bending gravity bends light It bends radio waves.

00:45:03.019 --> 00:45:07.059
It shouldn't be possible to communicate with

00:45:07.059 --> 00:45:09.820
a craft that has an envelope around it that's

00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:13.679
distorting all forms of energy, but they were

00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.099
apparently in contact with it. Somehow or another,

00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:19.219
through some unexplained way that they didn't

00:45:19.219 --> 00:45:22.000
bother explaining to you. So this thing gets

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.860
up, it just does some very simple maneuvers,

00:45:24.019 --> 00:45:28.099
left, right, left, right, goes down. Did they

00:45:28.099 --> 00:45:29.739
discuss this with you? I mean, they said they

00:45:29.739 --> 00:45:32.219
wanted you to see it. No, they just wanted. No,

00:45:32.619 --> 00:45:35.539
they didn't discuss anything with me. It sat

00:45:35.539 --> 00:45:37.860
down. We looked around for a bit and Barry said,

00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:39.880
let's go back. We went back in the lab. All we

00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:46.480
got to do was see it. Fast forward to some months

00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.039
later, I did have the test flight schedule of

00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.679
the craft. Now they had times they had designated

00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:55.860
high performance tests. This obviously wasn't

00:45:55.860 --> 00:45:59.679
one. that was a high -performance test. The high

00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.079
-performance test goes above the mountain range,

00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.500
and they do much more radical moves with the

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:09.079
thing. Look, this is a prized item, and they're

00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:10.699
not doing anything like taking it out of the

00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:12.639
atmosphere or flying around to other countries

00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.039
or anything like that. They just play with this

00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:17.900
thing right over the test site. But they were

00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:21.079
doing some radical moves with it. And since I

00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:22.980
had the test flight schedule, statistically,

00:46:26.059 --> 00:46:28.800
amount of traffic in the surrounding areas on

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.059
the highway was lowest on Wednesdays and that's

00:46:32.059 --> 00:46:35.619
why Dennis told us that all the test flights

00:46:35.619 --> 00:46:39.139
occurred only on Wednesdays because it'd be the

00:46:39.139 --> 00:46:41.019
least chance that anyone would see what's going

00:46:41.019 --> 00:46:44.619
on. And this was before the the government had

00:46:44.619 --> 00:46:48.300
expanded the forbidden territory around Area

00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:51.019
51 and Papoose Lake and all that stuff, right?

00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:55.320
Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came

00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:58.179
out, then people started going up on the mountaintops

00:46:58.179 --> 00:47:01.000
and trying to look down into there and they kind

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:03.539
of freaked out and then did the land grab and

00:47:03.539 --> 00:47:06.139
pushed everybody back. But yeah, I think all

00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:10.059
that occurred long after I was going that I came

00:47:10.059 --> 00:47:14.119
out. So you're working there and while you're

00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:15.980
working there, you're under this crazy schedule.

00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.139
Forgive me for explaining your story, but you

00:47:20.139 --> 00:47:22.840
would get these phone calls, you would have to

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:28.280
go to the airport at 11 p .m., and your wife

00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.119
started thinking that you were having an affair.

00:47:31.699 --> 00:47:35.820
Yeah, apparently so. Now I did give my permission

00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:38.940
to have, you know, as part of the, you know,

00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:43.219
security clearance process, I gave written permission

00:47:43.219 --> 00:47:45.500
to have... the phones monitored and things of

00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:47.719
that sort. So they weren't doing any covert stuff.

00:47:48.099 --> 00:47:51.659
They, um, you know, with any Q Q clearance or,

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.619
which is civilian top secret clearance or military

00:47:54.619 --> 00:47:57.019
top secret clearance, they go talk to friends

00:47:57.019 --> 00:48:00.019
and, you know, play places you've been, make

00:48:00.019 --> 00:48:01.699
sure you're not connected to foreign countries.

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:03.920
But, you know, monitoring your phone is nothing

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:09.360
unusual. However, they insisted that, you know,

00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:12.239
you don't even talk. Dear loved one to your partner

00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.340
dear wife whatever about what's going on so she

00:48:15.340 --> 00:48:18.099
was essentially in the dark and Didn't know the

00:48:18.099 --> 00:48:22.460
phone was being monitored. Well part of the security

00:48:22.460 --> 00:48:26.039
clearance is That not only do you not have any

00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:27.920
connections to foreign countries and aren't a

00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.400
maniac, but you have to have a stable home life,

00:48:31.099 --> 00:48:33.800
too Well, she started having an affair with a

00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:37.039
flight instructor now They were monitoring this

00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.730
on the phone and they knew it and I didn't So

00:48:39.730 --> 00:48:43.550
they stopped me coming in and their attitude

00:48:43.550 --> 00:48:46.949
at the time was, we need to see how this is going

00:48:46.949 --> 00:48:49.929
to play out and if Lazar is going to get a little

00:48:49.929 --> 00:48:53.889
weird or anything. So let's just, you know, hold

00:48:53.889 --> 00:48:57.510
them off from coming in and, you know, see what

00:48:57.510 --> 00:48:59.789
happens. And they explain this to you? What was

00:48:59.789 --> 00:49:02.690
happening? Well, after the fact, yeah, because

00:49:02.690 --> 00:49:06.289
time kind of went on and there were guys that

00:49:06.289 --> 00:49:08.860
were following me around. And I started getting

00:49:08.860 --> 00:49:13.000
a little concerned going, well, are they booting

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:16.699
me out of the project? And if so, they're not

00:49:16.699 --> 00:49:18.719
just going to let me hang out at home and go

00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:23.079
get a new job knowing what I know. So as time

00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:25.139
went on, I started getting a little concerned.

00:49:25.579 --> 00:49:28.559
And I took my closest friends and just kind of

00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.679
got together and said, hey, remember that job

00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:35.800
I told you about? This is what's going on. And

00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:39.380
Like you don't need to take my word for it. Wednesday

00:49:39.380 --> 00:49:41.679
night, we need to all go out here. I want to

00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:44.480
show you what's going on. So I took everybody

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.900
and we went out to remember since I had the test

00:49:47.900 --> 00:49:51.960
flight schedule and went outside the base out

00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.500
into the desert. And so everybody could see,

00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:56.239
you know, one of the high performance tests.

00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:59.880
And, you know, it left quite an imprint on everybody.

00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:02.019
So they knew I wasn't. And there's videos of

00:50:02.019 --> 00:50:04.300
these tests, right? Yeah. But remember, this

00:50:04.300 --> 00:50:07.420
isn't that. It's in in the dark in the 80s of

00:50:07.420 --> 00:50:09.480
the big monster -sized camcorder and you got

00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.980
you know a bright light jumping around but Yeah,

00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.880
I mean we did video of it, but there's no by

00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:18.900
today's standards. It's but is your video specifically

00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:21.480
available the video that you took Yeah, well

00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:24.380
George Knapp has it It's is it online. Do you

00:50:24.380 --> 00:50:27.019
I have no idea Jeremy? Yeah, I show clips of

00:50:27.019 --> 00:50:29.159
it in my film It's it's online and someone did

00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.619
a deep analysis of it. It was interesting Just

00:50:32.619 --> 00:50:34.599
take a look at how this microphone up to face

00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.400
about a fist from your face. All right You know

00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.679
to see how his video looks now, but as far as

00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:43.360
video evidence I mean we are talking 80s campers.

00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.860
The most important thing is the human story here

00:50:45.860 --> 00:50:48.579
Everybody that he took up there on three separate

00:50:48.579 --> 00:50:51.059
occasions. They don't all like each other. They

00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:54.179
don't all talk They all agree on one thing. They

00:50:54.179 --> 00:50:56.699
saw something that night at the exact point in

00:50:56.699 --> 00:50:58.559
time and space that Babazar said, and remember

00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.360
this is 1715, 17 miles south of Area 51. No one

00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:04.579
even knew really about Area 51. We're talking

00:51:04.579 --> 00:51:07.360
Papoose Lake and they all agree. They saw something

00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:09.639
that night they had never seen before and they've

00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:12.219
never seen since right when he said it. So that's

00:51:12.219 --> 00:51:14.539
one of like the six things where I'm like, how

00:51:14.539 --> 00:51:17.079
did he know? You can dismiss him. I tried to

00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:19.380
dismiss it, but some things we can't get around

00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.130
and there's about five or six of them. How did

00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:23.750
he know about those? If Jamie wants to find that

00:51:23.750 --> 00:51:26.150
video right now, what would he look under? Bob

00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:32.130
Lazar, UFO, S4 Area 51, just kind of like that.

00:51:32.469 --> 00:51:35.829
So it's like the S4 UFO video, Bob Lazar, and

00:51:35.829 --> 00:51:38.789
the guy does an analysis, but you're analyzing

00:51:38.789 --> 00:51:42.510
these 80s videos. Right. From the very beginning,

00:51:42.690 --> 00:51:45.570
Bob never said, I have proof of my story and

00:51:45.570 --> 00:51:47.510
I'm going to tell the world. He said at the very

00:51:47.510 --> 00:51:50.530
beginning, I cannot prove my story. That's not

00:51:50.530 --> 00:51:53.130
why I'm telling this. George Knapp convinced

00:51:53.130 --> 00:51:55.769
him to tell people and he lived through it. And

00:51:55.769 --> 00:51:58.170
I didn't believe it either until I talked with

00:51:58.170 --> 00:52:03.369
George. Okay. So you, you filmed these, this

00:52:03.369 --> 00:52:05.590
test flight, one test flight, and then you get

00:52:05.590 --> 00:52:09.329
caught. Actually, it was, I think the third time

00:52:09.329 --> 00:52:14.159
because we went out there the first time. everybody

00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:16.739
saw it everybody was amazed because it did some

00:52:16.739 --> 00:52:19.980
radical maneuvers and You know everybody had

00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:21.679
a lot to say about it maneuvers that I've seen

00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:24.280
I've seen the video It doesn't I don't think

00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:26.440
there's something we have now that does that

00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:30.059
no in terms of like a human piloted craft But

00:52:30.059 --> 00:52:32.099
I don't know obviously with the government. No,

00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:34.559
it's it's impossible Nothing can move like that

00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:36.760
and remember we didn't start filming from the

00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:39.539
very beginning You know it the curve we were

00:52:39.539 --> 00:52:41.480
waiting for something. You know to happen the

00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:44.440
craft took off and I came flying at a stop, you

00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:46.400
know, turned at a right angle, flew back and

00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.159
then, you know, after it did some, you know,

00:52:48.260 --> 00:52:50.980
amazing stuff to get the camera. And then we

00:52:50.980 --> 00:52:53.559
started filming. So it doesn't have all of it

00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:55.719
on there. It just has some. The way I describe

00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:57.079
it to my friends and they said, what does it

00:52:57.079 --> 00:52:59.719
look like? I said, take a laser pointer and then

00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:01.760
have a wall and then move it around the wall.

00:53:02.179 --> 00:53:03.519
Like, you know how it moves around the wall?

00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:05.340
It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with

00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:08.800
inertia or physics or it's not impeded in any

00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:11.019
way by the atmosphere. Yeah, that's what it looked

00:53:11.019 --> 00:53:13.909
like. You're essentially separated. from reality,

00:53:14.030 --> 00:53:18.010
as crazy as that sounds, with being in case it's

00:53:18.010 --> 00:53:21.590
own gravitational envelope, inertia is not going

00:53:21.590 --> 00:53:26.269
to affect it. And, you know, this is how some

00:53:26.269 --> 00:53:28.190
of those recent sightings with Commander David

00:53:28.190 --> 00:53:30.269
Fravor, I'm sure you've heard of the Tic Tac

00:53:30.269 --> 00:53:34.190
UFO, I mean, he describes exactly that the thing

00:53:34.190 --> 00:53:36.849
operates exactly the way I was describing. That's

00:53:36.849 --> 00:53:41.610
why he was interested to talk to me. But we saw

00:53:41.610 --> 00:53:45.199
this, And, you know, on the way home, it's like,

00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:47.280
hey, we got away with it. We should try it again

00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:50.599
the next test flight day. So this became a thing

00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:54.960
to do. And I think it was on the third time that

00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:58.179
we got caught. I mean, we started becoming a

00:53:58.179 --> 00:54:00.099
little careless. I think we took a motor home

00:54:00.099 --> 00:54:02.719
out there. You know, I mean, it was like the

00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:05.380
stupidest thing you could possibly imagine. Yeah,

00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.579
it was ridiculous. And again, you're in your

00:54:08.579 --> 00:54:12.239
20s. yeah and you know what was funny was um

00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:16.699
we went out there and my friend gene huff and

00:54:16.699 --> 00:54:20.699
i were leaning on the front of a vehicle and

00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:23.639
just for some reason we just started talking

00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:29.440
shit like uh well i hope they realize that uh

00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:31.900
i don't remember what we're saying but you know

00:54:31.900 --> 00:54:35.360
that something about attacking the base or something

00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:37.880
along those lines and stealing the the craft

00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:42.710
or something like that. And then about 20 feet

00:54:42.710 --> 00:54:45.849
in front of us we see a little green light fall

00:54:45.849 --> 00:54:48.889
on the ground and roll to us. And unbeknownst

00:54:48.889 --> 00:54:51.070
to us, now it's pitch black, you can't see your

00:54:51.070 --> 00:54:52.570
hand in front of your face, there were a bunch

00:54:52.570 --> 00:54:55.250
of guards standing right out there and they had

00:54:55.250 --> 00:54:57.510
a night vision scope where they were like from

00:54:57.510 --> 00:54:59.829
here to the wall looking at us, listening to

00:54:59.829 --> 00:55:01.670
us, and the guy dropped it and the scope rolled

00:55:01.670 --> 00:55:03.949
over to us and you could see the green screen.

00:55:04.849 --> 00:55:07.329
We turned the lights on and all these guys are

00:55:07.329 --> 00:55:11.630
there. So It was, uh, yeah. Yeah. So we did incredibly

00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:13.690
stupid stuff and got caught as we should have.

00:55:13.849 --> 00:55:15.550
Cause so when they catch you and they bring you

00:55:15.550 --> 00:55:18.869
in, then what happens? Well, I went in for debriefing

00:55:18.869 --> 00:55:21.909
the following day. I went to Indian Springs Air

00:55:21.909 --> 00:55:25.630
Force base, which is kind of a defunct base that

00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:28.869
they used to use at the nuclear test site. And

00:55:28.869 --> 00:55:33.349
this is when they brought out, um, the transcript

00:55:33.349 --> 00:55:38.159
of the phone call with my wife and you know they

00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:40.159
sat me down and we said you know when we meant

00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:43.159
to keep the secret we meant you can't tell your

00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:46.119
friends right you know and it just being sarcastic

00:55:46.119 --> 00:55:49.619
and trying to um and then they got real serious

00:55:49.619 --> 00:55:53.679
uh but this is where they you know took the transcript

00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:59.460
out and were reading me what uh my wife and you

00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:03.559
know our friend were talking about and uh i don't

00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:05.659
know it was a hard time so what happens from

00:56:05.659 --> 00:56:09.610
there What do they do with you? Why don't they

00:56:09.610 --> 00:56:12.269
arrest you? I don't I don't know. I don't know

00:56:12.269 --> 00:56:15.510
why I'm not sure they exactly they knew what

00:56:15.510 --> 00:56:19.250
to do, but they did let me go that night and

00:56:19.250 --> 00:56:22.909
I went home and This is kind of when the most

00:56:22.909 --> 00:56:25.170
stressful part started because you're realizing

00:56:25.170 --> 00:56:27.610
you're being monitor. Yeah now yeah now I know

00:56:27.610 --> 00:56:29.949
not only am I being monitored, but now I know

00:56:29.949 --> 00:56:33.809
I'm in trouble and It wasn't a short time after

00:56:33.809 --> 00:56:36.590
that that I contacted, you know at that time

00:56:36.590 --> 00:56:39.309
that only investigative reporter I had heard

00:56:39.309 --> 00:56:43.630
of in Las Vegas was George Knapp and told him

00:56:43.630 --> 00:56:45.570
some of the story because I had no idea what

00:56:45.570 --> 00:56:47.849
the hell was going to happen at that point. So

00:56:47.849 --> 00:56:52.349
George Knapp tries to dissect your story, tries

00:56:52.349 --> 00:56:55.869
to find holes in it, tells it. puts it online

00:56:55.869 --> 00:56:57.489
and makes everybody aware of it and that's how

00:56:57.489 --> 00:57:00.050
i found out about it yeah to make a long story

00:57:00.050 --> 00:57:03.010
short what what happens yeah to really make a

00:57:03.010 --> 00:57:05.289
long story short what happens from there on i

00:57:05.289 --> 00:57:07.889
mean do they contact you and say hey bob it's

00:57:07.889 --> 00:57:13.809
probably a good idea if you shut up how let me

00:57:13.809 --> 00:57:18.230
try to label you as crazy was there there were

00:57:18.230 --> 00:57:20.289
a boy there were a lot of things that happened

00:57:20.289 --> 00:57:24.409
at you know between that point I'm leaving out

00:57:24.409 --> 00:57:29.150
a lot of stuff to fill in the story. We'd have

00:57:29.150 --> 00:57:33.789
to go back to Los Alamos and and Well, I really

00:57:33.789 --> 00:57:38.170
don't want to talk about that the Top secret

00:57:38.170 --> 00:57:41.630
weapons stuff that you were working on. No, I'm

00:57:41.630 --> 00:57:47.250
talking about the 115 Well, I don't know I have

00:57:47.250 --> 00:57:54.150
to think about how I What is the problem? I don't

00:57:54.150 --> 00:57:56.349
want to get myself into more trouble by admitting

00:57:56.349 --> 00:57:59.889
something so I just have to dance around a couple.

00:57:59.889 --> 00:58:02.329
He was rated just during the filming of the movie.

00:58:03.110 --> 00:58:05.530
The movie is great by the way. Thanks Joe. It's

00:58:05.530 --> 00:58:07.710
on Netflix right now if anybody wants to check

00:58:07.710 --> 00:58:09.429
it out and if you're one of those people like

00:58:09.429 --> 00:58:13.849
me who you know I've always loved the idea of

00:58:13.849 --> 00:58:17.690
UFOs. Became extremely weary talking to people

00:58:17.690 --> 00:58:20.230
who are UFO believers and UFO fanatics because

00:58:20.230 --> 00:58:21.869
there's so many of them They're full of shit

00:58:21.869 --> 00:58:25.489
and not just full of shit. They're they're Childishly

00:58:25.489 --> 00:58:28.769
delirious like the way they talk about things

00:58:28.769 --> 00:58:30.769
that mean there's so many people that are that

00:58:30.769 --> 00:58:33.750
I'm in contact They they reach me in the night

00:58:33.750 --> 00:58:35.789
and they explain to me what we're doing to the

00:58:35.789 --> 00:58:38.980
ocean is wrong and like you like, okay This is

00:58:38.980 --> 00:58:40.900
one of the reasons I didn't want to do the show.

00:58:42.099 --> 00:58:47.519
Well, no, it's no joke. We've had people literally

00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:52.300
camp out on our front lawn and, you know, in

00:58:52.300 --> 00:58:54.420
some ways I can relate to some of these people.

00:58:54.619 --> 00:58:56.420
You know, maybe some of them did really have

00:58:56.420 --> 00:58:58.619
some kind of experience or saw something and

00:58:58.619 --> 00:59:00.639
all their friends think they're crazy. But hey,

00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:03.980
now there's this guy I heard on the radio and

00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:06.940
At least he knows I'm not full of shit, so I

00:59:06.940 --> 00:59:10.699
gotta talk to him. And so most of the correspondents

00:59:10.699 --> 00:59:12.760
I get are people trying to get a hold of me going,

00:59:13.019 --> 00:59:15.639
Bob, you gotta listen to me. I'm coming to talk

00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:18.760
to you. I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever.

00:59:20.019 --> 00:59:23.320
But some of them are just fucking batshit crazy,

00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:25.980
and they're frightening. There's a lot of schizophrenics

00:59:25.980 --> 00:59:29.349
that are involved in the conspiracy world. There's

00:59:29.349 --> 00:59:31.750
a lot of people that have real issues. Joe, it

00:59:31.750 --> 00:59:34.309
would be a disservice to your audience to not

00:59:34.309 --> 00:59:37.949
say that we have to look at what's going on now

00:59:37.949 --> 00:59:40.190
and understand. I've heard on your show a bunch

00:59:40.190 --> 00:59:42.909
of stuff about what's going on now. And to not

00:59:42.909 --> 00:59:46.130
really understand what's going on now, you can't

00:59:46.130 --> 00:59:49.090
see Bob's story in the correct light after 30

00:59:49.090 --> 00:59:51.550
years. And at some point, we should just touch

00:59:51.550 --> 00:59:55.519
upon that. The biggest being that things like

00:59:55.519 --> 00:59:58.480
the tic -tac UFO case that came out I've heard

00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:00.739
people even on the show say oh, there's a glitch

01:00:00.739 --> 01:00:03.900
in the radar That's a data poor perspective.

01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:06.280
You just don't know yet. What's really going

01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:08.639
on commander Fravor I was able to get the interview

01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:10.619
with him to talk with him way before it became

01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:14.900
public I got that from him. He saw it other pilots

01:00:14.900 --> 01:00:17.789
saw it This is a big thing that's going on right

01:00:17.789 --> 01:00:20.909
now. They had more sightings on the East Coast

01:00:20.909 --> 01:00:23.929
recently, cubes with spherical oars. These are

01:00:23.929 --> 01:00:25.710
not aerodynamic, and these are the people we

01:00:25.710 --> 01:00:28.170
trust to defend us on 9 -11. Commander Faber

01:00:28.170 --> 01:00:31.210
protected Los Angeles on 9 -11. So we trust them,

01:00:31.269 --> 01:00:35.070
but they're not trained observers. Radar, individuals

01:00:35.070 --> 01:00:37.269
see these things, and the big one, just to throw

01:00:37.269 --> 01:00:39.230
it down so we can consider a story a little differently,

01:00:39.489 --> 01:00:41.980
there's more depth to it, the big one is... The

01:00:41.980 --> 01:00:44.420
United States government has admitted that they

01:00:44.420 --> 01:00:47.139
have been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon.

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.940
That program was called ATIP, Advanced Aerospace,

01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:55.400
or sorry, was called OSAP. That's the mother

01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:58.199
program. George Knapp got that out. They announced

01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:01.320
through the New York Times about ATIP, but OSAP,

01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:03.940
these acronyms, OSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapon

01:01:03.940 --> 01:01:06.360
Systems Applications Program, who cares? That

01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:08.440
was the mother program. So they've admitted we

01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:11.139
didn't stop studying UFOs in 1969 with Project

01:01:11.139 --> 01:01:13.360
Blue Book. We don't think it's crazy. We actually

01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:15.440
want to reverse engineer the technology. That's

01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.420
why on your other show, you said, what's this

01:01:17.420 --> 01:01:19.500
AAV thing? It's like, they're making up another

01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:21.940
UFO name. Well, hold on. There's a reason. Because

01:01:21.940 --> 01:01:24.960
in the documents, the DIA documents that George

01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:26.900
Knapp released, that everybody said was fake

01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:30.659
till now they know is real, they call them AAVs,

01:01:30.739 --> 01:01:34.320
which is Advanced Aerospace Vehicles. People

01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.360
are getting the acronyms wrong. So the reason

01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:39.019
for the terminology change is so that we can

01:01:39.019 --> 01:01:41.059
mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents.

01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:43.659
People can look for that now. So they changed

01:01:43.659 --> 01:01:46.579
the names to get people away from UFO or UAP,

01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:49.219
even like Hillary Clinton said on air, right?

01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.159
So what are you talking about? Hillary Clinton

01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:56.079
informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel. Oh, Jimmy,

01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:58.860
we don't call them UFOs anymore. We call them

01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:02.380
UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomenon. Right?

01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:04.860
So she kind of was giving, the Clintons are very

01:02:04.860 --> 01:02:08.179
into the UFO topic. Senator Reid, you know, he's

01:02:08.179 --> 01:02:10.719
done a lot for the subject, the study of it,

01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:13.400
right? So she informed the public so they could

01:02:13.400 --> 01:02:16.000
look for the right term. So these terms are important

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.219
because the DIA in those documents, they've been

01:02:19.219 --> 01:02:22.039
calling them AAVs for quite some time now. And

01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:25.599
they changed the name to anomalous. No, that's

01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:29.440
kind of a misnomer. So they always mess around

01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:31.969
with things, but it's actually advanced. Right.

01:02:32.130 --> 01:02:33.750
But when they're describing it in the news, they

01:02:33.750 --> 01:02:35.809
were calling it anomalous aerospace vehicles.

01:02:36.309 --> 01:02:37.869
Totally. And that's cool. They were also saying

01:02:37.869 --> 01:02:41.369
anomalous aerospace threats, AAT, right? Because

01:02:41.369 --> 01:02:43.650
they want the sense of a threat. Right. So my

01:02:43.650 --> 01:02:47.150
point is If people don't know this now and they

01:02:47.150 --> 01:02:49.530
think this stuff is fantasy, this part of it,

01:02:49.630 --> 01:02:51.469
that we're studying it, that we take it seriously,

01:02:51.650 --> 01:02:53.750
we're spending money on it, and that we're getting

01:02:53.750 --> 01:02:57.110
great data from visual pilots to radar, that's

01:02:57.110 --> 01:02:58.989
why we know it's aerospace. They dropped from

01:02:58.989 --> 01:03:01.650
80 ,000 feet. But guess what? That's the top

01:03:01.650 --> 01:03:05.110
scope of the SPY -1 radar is 80 ,000 feet. So

01:03:05.110 --> 01:03:07.030
the radar system they were using, it was coming

01:03:07.030 --> 01:03:10.760
from above that. So my point is this. If you

01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:13.719
don't understand that this is happening, you're

01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:15.820
just behind the curve because you don't have

01:03:15.820 --> 01:03:18.460
the information because of the stigma that you're

01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:20.820
talking about. I saw you get totally upset with

01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:23.440
the UFO topic. I met you first when you got totally

01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:26.139
upset with the UFO topic. It's the people. When,

01:03:26.699 --> 01:03:29.179
when you're doing your, I'm sorry, man. When

01:03:29.179 --> 01:03:31.079
you're, when you're doing your show, you know,

01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:33.599
the Joe Oregon questions, everything I could

01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:37.139
see how how frustrating is, trust me, I have

01:03:37.139 --> 01:03:39.179
been frustrated to hell. Luckily, my mentors,

01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:41.179
George Knapp, and he's taught me the pitfall

01:03:41.179 --> 01:03:43.940
pitfalls as I went through it. My whole point

01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:46.940
in this rant right here is just that we have

01:03:46.940 --> 01:03:50.380
to now look at Bob's story, but knowing the facts,

01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:52.900
not someone saying it's a bird, it's a plane,

01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:55.980
it's a glitch. They're not. And so if you don't

01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:57.880
know that you just don't have the information

01:03:57.880 --> 01:03:59.760
yet. Not just that knowing the facts as we know

01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:04.159
them in 2019, not in 1988. Absolutely. And So

01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:07.260
what has he said that has come true? He's totally

01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:09.199
unimpressed with it, right? What has he said

01:04:09.199 --> 01:04:11.460
that's come true? So I was like, Bob, they've

01:04:11.460 --> 01:04:14.119
announced gravity as a wave. You were right,

01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:16.260
man. You're vindicated. And he looks at me and

01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:18.019
he's like, well, if you think about it, Jeremy,

01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.820
I had like a 50 -50 chance. He was not very impressed,

01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:24.860
right? When did they announce gravity as a wave?

01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:28.219
So they detected, in a sense, they detected gravity

01:04:28.219 --> 01:04:31.670
waves. Who is they? You might know more there's

01:04:31.670 --> 01:04:33.469
two black holes that were colliding and that's

01:04:33.469 --> 01:04:35.829
how they were able to detect Yeah, somebody Bill.

01:04:35.829 --> 01:04:37.929
I don't know which group it was or what part

01:04:37.929 --> 01:04:40.050
of the government. That's what Google's for.

01:04:40.610 --> 01:04:44.010
Yeah, what it but they You know built a gigantic

01:04:44.010 --> 01:04:48.190
gravity wave detector and pretty much Detected

01:04:48.190 --> 01:04:51.690
that there are such things as first observation

01:04:51.690 --> 01:04:56.010
of gravitational waves It says it was in 2016

01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:58.599
Okay, the first observation of gravitational

01:04:58.599 --> 01:05:02.500
waves was made on 14th of September 2015 as announced

01:05:02.500 --> 01:05:06.619
by the LIGO and Virgo collaborators on the 11th

01:05:06.619 --> 01:05:09.860
of February 2016. Previously, gravitational waves

01:05:09.860 --> 01:05:12.599
had only been inferred indirectly via their effect

01:05:12.599 --> 01:05:16.559
on the timing of pulsars in binary star systems.

01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:24.070
The waveform connected by both LIGO observatories

01:05:24.070 --> 01:05:27.510
match the predictions of general relativity for

01:05:27.510 --> 01:05:34.190
a gravitational wave emanating from the inward,

01:05:34.550 --> 01:05:37.190
I'm trying to get this, from the inward spiral

01:05:37.190 --> 01:05:40.570
and merger of a pair of black holes around 36

01:05:40.570 --> 01:05:44.570
and 29 solar masses and the subsequent ring down.

01:05:44.750 --> 01:05:48.929
of the single resulting black hole. Well, I mean,

01:05:50.090 --> 01:05:53.230
in the 80s, the predominant theory was gravity

01:05:53.230 --> 01:05:58.030
is produced by gravitons. Theoretical particles.

01:05:58.610 --> 01:06:01.570
But they're not. They're waves. They're not particles.

01:06:01.849 --> 01:06:04.630
So the thought is that the way we experience

01:06:04.630 --> 01:06:08.130
gravity, it's based on mass, which is why the

01:06:08.130 --> 01:06:11.400
moon, which is Roughly one -quarter the size

01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:13.619
of the earth has one -sixth of the earth's gravity

01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:15.219
So there's some sort of a computation you can

01:06:15.219 --> 01:06:18.960
make based on mass right and and remember We

01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:22.500
can observe the effects of gravity, but we have

01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:26.119
no idea what it is All we can do is observe it

01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:28.199
and we can't make it the only way you can make

01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:30.880
gravity is just put more mass together And it's

01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:33.579
just a product of gravity, but if you can make

01:06:33.579 --> 01:06:37.449
a if you have a machine that makes gravity You

01:06:37.449 --> 01:06:40.170
can pretty much do anything you can affect time

01:06:40.170 --> 01:06:43.289
you can have force fields all that stuff That's

01:06:43.289 --> 01:06:46.250
in science fiction becomes reality If you have

01:06:46.250 --> 01:06:49.550
a machine that can make gravity and what we worked

01:06:49.550 --> 01:06:52.889
on in the desert was a machine that makes gravity

01:06:52.889 --> 01:06:56.530
I love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear

01:06:56.530 --> 01:06:59.829
reactor to the Victorian era I love that that

01:06:59.829 --> 01:07:03.190
analogy because back then that was impossible.

01:07:03.190 --> 01:07:06.860
That was magic What you're talking about here

01:07:06.860 --> 01:07:09.440
the fact that they just discovered this four

01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:13.280
years ago that this is a wave But we're as much

01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:15.639
as we know and as impressed as we are as we should

01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:19.199
be with how much more Technologically advanced

01:07:19.199 --> 01:07:21.059
we are than every other creature on this planet

01:07:21.059 --> 01:07:24.260
We're still in many ways in the adolescence of

01:07:24.260 --> 01:07:27.239
technological innovation absolutely absolutely

01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:31.340
if even adolescence and when you're talking about

01:07:31.340 --> 01:07:35.619
this binary star system zeta reticuli and who

01:07:35.619 --> 01:07:38.039
knows how much longer these things have been

01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.760
around in us who knows what their evolutionary

01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.280
cycles been who knows what mean we might be talking

01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:45.900
about something that's a million years more advanced

01:07:45.900 --> 01:07:49.440
than us yeah yeah it could easily be now I'm

01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:52.960
not in believe it or not I'm not into UFOs I

01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:55.739
don't follow those stories or you know even after

01:07:55.739 --> 01:07:58.980
your experiences no I'm fascinated with the technology

01:07:58.980 --> 01:08:02.139
and I it really it irks me like every night I

01:08:02.139 --> 01:08:06.480
go to sleep that you know I don't that it was

01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.139
my own doing essentially that that prevented

01:08:10.139 --> 01:08:12.860
me from continuing on in the in the project I

01:08:12.860 --> 01:08:15.480
mean it's the that to be on that cutting edge

01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:19.579
of technology is so alluring to me right but

01:08:19.579 --> 01:08:23.579
you know by the same token I don't really care

01:08:23.579 --> 01:08:25.319
that there's aliens or where they come from.

01:08:25.420 --> 01:08:27.680
I mean, the prize is the technology. And that's

01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:29.920
what I'm fascinated by. But so I don't listen

01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:32.180
to UFO stories and that sort of thing. But George

01:08:32.180 --> 01:08:36.479
Knapp is, I mean, he's the guy that has the contacts

01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:39.279
and tries to thread everything together. And

01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:42.840
what he recently told me is he found, I don't

01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:44.899
know, is either documentation or people that

01:08:44.899 --> 01:08:47.279
he spoke to, it's that this, the existence of

01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:49.899
this project, the project that I was on, it's

01:08:49.899 --> 01:08:54.100
something that they Seem to take out every eight

01:08:54.100 --> 01:08:56.699
or ten years. So that's a very specific memo

01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:59.600
and this is actually This is the first time I'll

01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:01.420
be very clear with people about it. It's a big

01:09:01.420 --> 01:09:03.960
topic of conversation right now It's called the

01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:07.640
Wilson memo. You can look it up Admiral Wilson

01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:10.260
met with a scientist who's actually was featured

01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:13.340
in one of my films Everybody has been debating

01:09:13.340 --> 01:09:17.119
whether or not this document of a conversation

01:09:17.119 --> 01:09:19.899
With it with an sitting admiral at the time is

01:09:19.899 --> 01:09:23.039
a real Document it's an actual conversation that

01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:24.420
happened in this document is where everybody

01:09:24.420 --> 01:09:25.960
wants to know the world is going crazy right

01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:28.600
now in the UFO world I'll tell you straight up

01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:31.739
right now. I'm in the position to know and it

01:09:31.739 --> 01:09:36.079
is a real document That it is real. So the conversation

01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:39.340
you read in that That conversation was had I

01:09:39.340 --> 01:09:41.800
can't attest to every you're not being very clear.

01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:45.640
Please no problem So there was a document that

01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:47.699
is circulating right now that is really big.

01:09:47.699 --> 01:09:49.619
It's going around everywhere. People are asking

01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:52.100
and what is this document? It's called the Wilson

01:09:52.100 --> 01:09:55.800
Memo, is how you can find it online. Or the Wilson

01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:58.119
Leak. There it is. Jimmy's got it. The Wilson

01:09:58.119 --> 01:10:00.640
Memorandum. Use of human vulnerable... No, no,

01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:02.680
no, no, no. No, that's not it. Okay, okay, okay.

01:10:03.340 --> 01:10:07.600
So, Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist

01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:09.579
and they have this discussion, oddly enough,

01:10:09.699 --> 01:10:12.779
at special projects at EG &G. And if I remember

01:10:12.779 --> 01:10:14.819
the documents from 2001, I'm telling everybody

01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:17.750
right now, it's real. And we'll see, my history's

01:10:17.750 --> 01:10:19.529
pretty good with like saying if something's real

01:10:19.529 --> 01:10:21.869
or not, right? So here we go. The document comes

01:10:21.869 --> 01:10:25.069
out. They meet at EG &G Special Projects. In

01:10:25.069 --> 01:10:29.609
1989, they stumble into a problem. This happens.

01:10:29.869 --> 01:10:32.770
They put the technology away, and then they bring

01:10:32.770 --> 01:10:35.569
it back out and see if material science has caught

01:10:35.569 --> 01:10:38.189
up and if they can make any progress. So this

01:10:38.189 --> 01:10:40.710
document kind of talks about this process. The

01:10:40.710 --> 01:10:42.850
big thing I get from it, and a lot of it's vindicating

01:10:42.850 --> 01:10:45.100
to Bob. And one of the things that's vindicating,

01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:49.100
besides the EG &G thing, is that private industry,

01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:52.539
so this guy's an admiral. And he says, I found

01:10:52.539 --> 01:10:54.840
out about your SAP, your special access program.

01:10:55.220 --> 01:10:58.500
I need to know about it. And he's going to a

01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:02.439
private part of industry. And he has denied access.

01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:05.619
And he says, I should be running this program.

01:11:05.939 --> 01:11:09.659
And they were able to deny him access. So I think

01:11:09.659 --> 01:11:12.119
the takeaway here is, check it out, I'm telling

01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:14.659
you that that is an actual, correct, that is

01:11:14.659 --> 01:11:16.640
a leak. Now, everything said in that document,

01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:18.699
I don't know. What are you talking about? What

01:11:18.699 --> 01:11:21.119
is said in that document specifically? It's between

01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:23.840
a scientist and an admiral that are sitting and

01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:26.060
they're having a meeting and they're talking

01:11:26.060 --> 01:11:30.020
about the search for the UFO subject, the search

01:11:30.020 --> 01:11:33.659
to get special access program access to all of

01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:36.020
these different things like reverse engineering

01:11:36.020 --> 01:11:39.399
programs. So in this document, they talk about

01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.380
it. I believe that this document, that the person

01:11:43.380 --> 01:11:45.460
that went was employed by Robert Bigelow. You

01:11:45.460 --> 01:11:47.039
know, one of the guys has a couple of orbiting

01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:49.279
satellites and all that stuff. He's the guy who

01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:52.479
owns Skinwalker Ranch. No, he's not. He was the

01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:55.020
guy that owns Skinwalker. Okay. Yeah, he used

01:11:55.020 --> 01:11:57.420
to own it. There's a new owner and I interviewed

01:11:57.420 --> 01:12:00.140
him for my other film, but there's a new owner

01:12:00.140 --> 01:12:02.199
and you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon.

01:12:02.930 --> 01:12:05.430
But like it'll just there's there's stuff that

01:12:05.430 --> 01:12:07.109
you'll be hearing about skinwalker ranching because

01:12:07.109 --> 01:12:09.689
there's a new honor Anyway, the whole point of

01:12:09.689 --> 01:12:13.149
this, you know insertion here is just that that

01:12:13.149 --> 01:12:16.630
document kind of validates a lot of this idea

01:12:16.630 --> 01:12:19.109
Bob just said that they make a little progress

01:12:19.109 --> 01:12:21.369
then they can't go anywhere they tuck it away

01:12:21.369 --> 01:12:23.869
and Then they bring it back out, you know, ten

01:12:23.869 --> 01:12:26.510
years later and start working on it. What is

01:12:26.510 --> 01:12:28.310
the limiting factor? I think Bob should speak

01:12:28.310 --> 01:12:31.460
on this but it's the material science Yeah, it's

01:12:31.460 --> 01:12:34.760
really where physics is. So I can see them doing

01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:38.699
that. I mean, I didn't have any information on

01:12:38.699 --> 01:12:41.239
that, but I think what, you know, George uncovered

01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:44.140
is probably accurate that, you know, we try and

01:12:44.140 --> 01:12:46.680
do what we can. And once we reach a roadblock

01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:50.319
on, we really can't figure it out. It's just

01:12:50.319 --> 01:12:53.140
frigging wait, put the thing away, wait for science

01:12:53.140 --> 01:12:55.800
to catch up. And, you know, a decade later, let's

01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:57.699
take the project out again and see, all right,

01:12:57.739 --> 01:13:00.239
now where can we go? But there's got to be someone

01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:02.859
who remains informed, right? Oh, yeah. So you've

01:13:02.859 --> 01:13:05.840
got your scientists like you and Barry. You've

01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:07.600
got your people that you compartmentalize. You've

01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:08.460
got these people working on this project. Yeah,

01:13:08.539 --> 01:13:11.380
there has to be some people that know everything.

01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:14.079
You've got security. And then someone's going

01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:16.659
to be on the outside. Saying hey, we need people

01:13:16.659 --> 01:13:18.500
to guard this building. Don't let anybody in

01:13:18.500 --> 01:13:21.420
for 10 years I think a lot of that is private

01:13:21.420 --> 01:13:23.340
industry and I think that's how they keep it

01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:25.020
Yeah, I think that's how they litter because

01:13:25.020 --> 01:13:28.319
the government is just so leaky. I think that's

01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:30.100
kind of what they're doing That's what the document

01:13:30.100 --> 01:13:32.699
kind of proves. You just articulated that that

01:13:32.699 --> 01:13:35.119
it is in control of private industry. What private

01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:38.140
industry? Some aerospace company something. I

01:13:38.140 --> 01:13:39.380
don't know. Yeah, they wouldn't they would the

01:13:39.380 --> 01:13:41.239
guy with the Admiral wouldn't name it in the

01:13:41.239 --> 01:13:46.100
car in the conversation so they Still have these

01:13:46.100 --> 01:13:50.279
things supposedly I Would guess I mean, I don't

01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:53.539
have any information have you ever asked anyone

01:13:53.539 --> 01:13:58.060
that has any inkling of any idea of where they

01:13:58.060 --> 01:14:02.319
got them or how they got them now, but Something

01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:07.520
must have been said to me from Barry and but

01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:10.180
I it was just too long ago and I can't quite

01:14:10.180 --> 01:14:12.930
remember what was said but it It just left a

01:14:12.930 --> 01:14:15.069
seed in my mind. I think at least one of them

01:14:15.069 --> 01:14:20.390
was part of an archaeological dig. So it's old.

01:14:21.189 --> 01:14:23.510
At least one of them is old. I don't know if

01:14:23.510 --> 01:14:26.289
it was the one I worked on, but I remember something

01:14:26.289 --> 01:14:29.810
to do with an archaeological dig. Whoa. So that

01:14:29.810 --> 01:14:32.689
means it's not just old, it's ancient. That'd

01:14:32.689 --> 01:14:35.250
be a great Steven Spielberg movie. Yeah. Right?

01:14:37.149 --> 01:14:39.229
As all of it would. Yeah, that threw me out when

01:14:39.229 --> 01:14:42.029
he said that for the first time. That's a freakout

01:14:42.029 --> 01:14:44.090
right there. Just a couple of dudes with some

01:14:44.090 --> 01:14:46.590
brushes looking for a Tyrannosaurus Rex bone.

01:14:46.630 --> 01:14:48.890
They hit metal. And when did they find it? You

01:14:48.890 --> 01:14:51.270
know, that they have nine of them. Well, and

01:14:51.270 --> 01:14:53.649
how could we have not heard about that? What

01:14:53.649 --> 01:14:56.010
about the guys with the brushes? How could you

01:14:56.010 --> 01:14:58.810
uncover something like that? Well, Joe's newspaper

01:14:58.810 --> 01:15:01.069
at home does. I mean, they said it on that first

01:15:01.069 --> 01:15:02.789
day. Oh, you mean the Roswell Daily Record? Yeah,

01:15:02.789 --> 01:15:05.189
the one you told me. Yeah, I have a cover. What

01:15:05.189 --> 01:15:07.210
is this here, Jamie? This is the document, but

01:15:07.210 --> 01:15:09.550
I had to do some digging to find it. Yes, it's

01:15:09.550 --> 01:15:11.960
just kind of... Yeah, so this is where they meet

01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.060
at EG &G and this is Admiral Wilson and there's

01:15:14.060 --> 01:15:15.500
a lot more coming out now I want to be clear

01:15:15.500 --> 01:15:19.119
George didn't put this out. He didn't leak this

01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:21.479
out to anybody. This is I can tell you how I

01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:23.939
recorded this this conversation So this was an

01:15:23.939 --> 01:15:26.659
employee of at the time Robert Bigelow and this

01:15:26.659 --> 01:15:28.840
is in 2002, right? Do you remember when he had

01:15:28.840 --> 01:15:30.979
that government contract called? ASAP the world

01:15:30.979 --> 01:15:33.300
all knows about now and he had nids that studied

01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:35.600
the ranch that 22 million Everybody is saying

01:15:35.600 --> 01:15:39.340
it was for a tip advanced aerospace threat identification

01:15:39.340 --> 01:15:44.159
program The $22 million was for OSAP that was

01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:46.460
pushed through through Congress, three congressmen,

01:15:46.659 --> 01:15:50.000
right? An astronaut. It was pushed through. And

01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:52.359
that's what that $22 million, by the way, they

01:15:52.359 --> 01:15:54.100
spend more money on Viagra every year than they

01:15:54.100 --> 01:15:56.180
do studying UFOs, if it was just this program,

01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:57.859
which I think is funny. They probably make a

01:15:57.859 --> 01:15:59.859
lot more money from Viagra than they do from

01:15:59.859 --> 01:16:01.140
UFOs too. They probably do. Well, you never know

01:16:01.140 --> 01:16:03.520
how it seeds into a population. But anyway, this

01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:07.079
program, this is what was the mother program.

01:16:07.340 --> 01:16:09.640
So it got the $22 million. Two million and really

01:16:09.640 --> 01:16:12.180
it was to study skinwalker ranch oddly enough

01:16:12.180 --> 01:16:15.340
that 22 million all was inspired by the phenomenon

01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:17.460
They were seen at skinwalker ranch because the

01:16:17.460 --> 01:16:20.699
scientists they're seeing vehicles come through

01:16:20.699 --> 01:16:24.000
like a space in the sky Yeah, we went there.

01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.760
I went there. Yeah, we interviewed a Bunch of

01:16:27.760 --> 01:16:29.199
people that seemed full of shit, but a couple

01:16:29.199 --> 01:16:31.359
that didn't but there's very very interesting

01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:33.699
Totally and it there's but if you look I spent

01:16:33.699 --> 01:16:35.739
a lot of time in the area. I'm not talking about

01:16:35.739 --> 01:16:37.279
those stories, I'm saying there were scientists

01:16:37.279 --> 01:16:40.060
hired by the government, right, through Bigelow

01:16:40.060 --> 01:16:41.720
to study the ranch because they thought it was

01:16:41.720 --> 01:16:44.020
important. And, you know, whatever, whatever.

01:16:44.460 --> 01:16:46.800
The point is that 22 million was to study that.

01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:49.140
Then we have ATIP, which is like an auxiliary

01:16:49.140 --> 01:16:51.659
kind of program of military settings, like Commander

01:16:51.659 --> 01:16:54.300
Fravers and that sort of thing. This document

01:16:54.300 --> 01:16:57.260
is just one of those things that has now come

01:16:57.260 --> 01:16:59.739
forward that through the Bigelow studies, it

01:16:59.739 --> 01:17:02.199
was government funded and then it was personally

01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:04.850
funded and then government funded. It's just

01:17:04.850 --> 01:17:07.689
one of those things that kind of shakes you because

01:17:07.689 --> 01:17:10.989
you got this military guy who can't get access

01:17:10.989 --> 01:17:13.470
because of the private industry that's holding

01:17:13.470 --> 01:17:16.869
these non -terrestrial materials that they can't

01:17:16.869 --> 01:17:20.130
study it. So that's the claim right now. Give

01:17:20.130 --> 01:17:22.449
it some time. Let people dig more into this.

01:17:22.970 --> 01:17:28.970
It's fascinating, man. So you are essentially,

01:17:29.029 --> 01:17:33.500
you're kicked out. Right? You're out of this

01:17:33.500 --> 01:17:36.399
program. You can't work with these crafts anymore.

01:17:37.199 --> 01:17:40.739
And do they give you any threats? Do they tell

01:17:40.739 --> 01:17:44.180
you what you have to do from here on out? Yeah.

01:17:44.260 --> 01:17:48.800
Well, I mean, the way it ended was I told George

01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:52.199
Knapp all this stuff. And, you know, he said,

01:17:52.239 --> 01:17:54.340
well, let's just get it on tape. Should something

01:17:54.340 --> 01:17:57.359
happen, at least we have a record of it. And

01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:01.399
I don't remember what the impetus was, but At

01:18:01.399 --> 01:18:04.380
some point, George wanted to air it. And he said,

01:18:04.840 --> 01:18:08.060
you know, you make the call on it. And look,

01:18:08.119 --> 01:18:11.220
if at any point you change your mind, we won't

01:18:11.220 --> 01:18:14.439
air it. And it came down to the day where George

01:18:14.439 --> 01:18:16.239
wants to put it on the five o 'clock news. He

01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:18.079
said, this is important stuff. People have to

01:18:18.079 --> 01:18:21.199
know about it. And I thought it was too. I thought

01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:23.180
it's kind of a crime. I know you got to keep

01:18:23.180 --> 01:18:26.000
the technology secret, but you can't not tell

01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:28.989
everybody that this stuff is going on. that we

01:18:28.989 --> 01:18:31.970
have you know actual hardware from another civilization

01:18:31.970 --> 01:18:35.229
it's a big fucking deal you know probably the

01:18:35.229 --> 01:18:40.909
biggest one there ever was and um george said

01:18:40.909 --> 01:18:42.729
you know today's the day we got to put it on

01:18:42.729 --> 01:18:44.949
the news or something to that effect and when

01:18:44.949 --> 01:18:48.050
it came right down to the time to air it i changed

01:18:48.050 --> 01:18:52.449
my mind and i said we're not doing it and that's

01:18:52.449 --> 01:18:55.350
what turned into the famous wrestling match between

01:18:55.350 --> 01:18:58.039
me and george trying to get the tape but he won

01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:00.439
because he was a bigger guy. So you actually

01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:02.539
physically wrestled? Well, I think it was more

01:19:02.539 --> 01:19:04.260
of a pulling match. We were I don't think we

01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:07.500
ever hit the ground. But he got the tape, put

01:19:07.500 --> 01:19:09.699
it in the player and boom, five o 'clock news

01:19:09.699 --> 01:19:13.180
was on. And then I got a call after that. And

01:19:13.180 --> 01:19:15.300
they said it was from Dennis. He said, Do you

01:19:15.300 --> 01:19:17.720
have any idea what we're going to do to you now?

01:19:18.020 --> 01:19:20.319
And he hung up the phone. That was the last communication

01:19:20.319 --> 01:19:24.159
I had with him. And what has happened to you

01:19:24.159 --> 01:19:30.729
since then? After that, A lot of people I've

01:19:30.729 --> 01:19:36.189
known either were audited by the IRS, people

01:19:36.189 --> 01:19:39.010
had, anybody I know that had clearances that

01:19:39.010 --> 01:19:41.590
worked in secure programs had the clearances

01:19:41.590 --> 01:19:46.060
pulled. One of them, a friend that... One of

01:19:46.060 --> 01:19:48.100
mine that Jeremy knows. He's going on camera

01:19:48.100 --> 01:19:50.140
with me soon. He'll tell the story now that he's

01:19:50.140 --> 01:19:52.979
out of work up there. He was working up at the

01:19:52.979 --> 01:19:54.859
Tonopah test range waiting for his clearance

01:19:54.859 --> 01:19:57.560
to come through and you know they pulled that.

01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:01.000
It became, it's like if they can't get the person

01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:04.539
that's involved, they just create a problem for

01:20:04.539 --> 01:20:07.579
everybody that surrounds them. And so I mean

01:20:07.579 --> 01:20:09.979
the way it turns out, it hurt a lot of people's

01:20:09.979 --> 01:20:13.920
lives that I was connected to. And that's an

01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:16.479
effective way of shutting someone up. Did you

01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:18.920
feel that by coming forward and going public

01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:21.060
they couldn't just snuff you out? That was, I

01:20:21.060 --> 01:20:23.420
mean, that's what I was told in George and everybody,

01:20:23.420 --> 01:20:26.500
you know, said that, you know, it's public, there's,

01:20:26.500 --> 01:20:28.640
you know, no one will touch you. And I, you know,

01:20:29.180 --> 01:20:35.340
I fell for it. Do you wish you didn't? Yeah,

01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:37.960
sometimes. Sometimes when it's just overstressed

01:20:37.960 --> 01:20:40.170
and people are camping on your lawn. Yeah, but

01:20:40.170 --> 01:20:43.270
this is going to make things worse doing this.

01:20:43.550 --> 01:20:45.850
No, this is going to make things better. I was

01:20:45.850 --> 01:20:48.170
trying to tell him. How is this going to make

01:20:48.170 --> 01:20:49.649
things better? Well, because you're getting a

01:20:49.649 --> 01:20:52.029
real chance to explain yourself in a way that's

01:20:52.029 --> 01:20:56.350
going to make people who not only work in the

01:20:56.350 --> 01:21:00.029
government, people that are police officers and

01:21:00.029 --> 01:21:02.630
firefighters and first responders and doctors

01:21:02.630 --> 01:21:07.050
and scientists, they're going to empathize, empathize

01:21:07.050 --> 01:21:12.390
and Empathize with what it must be like to be

01:21:12.390 --> 01:21:15.810
a person like you in your 20s who gets thrust

01:21:15.810 --> 01:21:20.350
into this world unknowingly and confronted with

01:21:20.350 --> 01:21:24.689
one of the most, if not the most important discovery

01:21:24.689 --> 01:21:28.149
in the history of human beings. The big question,

01:21:28.470 --> 01:21:31.369
are we alone? It's the number one question. There's

01:21:31.369 --> 01:21:33.789
two questions, right? What happens when we die

01:21:33.789 --> 01:21:36.329
and are we alone? Those are the two big questions.

01:21:36.390 --> 01:21:40.979
Right. And if we're not alone, and someone knows

01:21:40.979 --> 01:21:44.220
we're not alone, and these some people who know

01:21:44.220 --> 01:21:48.359
we're not alone are these bungling sort of military

01:21:48.359 --> 01:21:50.979
folks. Even if they weren't, it's a crime that

01:21:50.979 --> 01:21:53.300
they're not telling the rest of us. But I mean,

01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:55.659
I don't mean bungling in terms they're incompetent.

01:21:55.699 --> 01:21:58.560
I mean they can't be competent. It seems to me,

01:21:58.659 --> 01:22:00.439
to what you're describing, that no one can be

01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:03.840
competent with this technology. Like the Victorian

01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:07.899
era scholars Analyzing some sort of a nuclear

01:22:07.899 --> 01:22:10.460
reactor. There's there's no way. Why do you think?

01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:12.260
Why do you think they're not telling us? Let's

01:22:12.260 --> 01:22:13.979
just make an assumption that this is true right

01:22:13.979 --> 01:22:17.460
now Why do you think that they're not telling

01:22:17.460 --> 01:22:19.319
us that our government doesn't tell us? What's

01:22:19.319 --> 01:22:21.560
your best? Well, let me put it into you What

01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:25.300
would you do if I'm the president? Okay, and

01:22:25.300 --> 01:22:27.140
I get this information. What do I do with this?

01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:28.779
What do I do this? There's something that we

01:22:28.779 --> 01:22:30.979
don't know There's something we don't understand.

01:22:31.380 --> 01:22:32.859
There's something that came from another world.

01:22:32.939 --> 01:22:35.500
We got it tucked away in the mountains. And I

01:22:35.500 --> 01:22:37.220
just wanted you guys to know about it. Hey, sleep

01:22:37.220 --> 01:22:39.500
tight. Hey, American Nato's on tonight. Who do

01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:41.109
you think is going to win? Yeah, who's gonna

01:22:41.109 --> 01:22:46.270
win America? So one is uncertainty and the other

01:22:46.270 --> 01:22:48.010
one is what Bob and I have talked about a lot

01:22:48.010 --> 01:22:50.649
Absolutely not knowing what to tell people because

01:22:50.649 --> 01:22:52.489
you don't really understand it yourself even

01:22:52.489 --> 01:22:54.449
right What do you say you if you want to run

01:22:54.449 --> 01:22:56.449
a government you want to get people to pay their

01:22:56.449 --> 01:22:58.569
taxes? There's something else. Yeah, what do

01:22:58.569 --> 01:23:00.829
you say you have these objects fine with impunity,

01:23:00.850 --> 01:23:03.010
right? And you but you have something else. Well,

01:23:03.090 --> 01:23:05.310
not like that. What can you say? like how much

01:23:05.310 --> 01:23:07.649
do you really know i think it's mainly the technology

01:23:07.649 --> 01:23:10.250
that they just want to keep the technology secret

01:23:10.250 --> 01:23:13.449
because of their yeah whoever gets this dude

01:23:13.449 --> 01:23:16.189
yeah they you you control the where you become

01:23:16.189 --> 01:23:19.029
you literally become invincible once you master

01:23:19.029 --> 01:23:22.050
the technology you can't you cannot penetrate

01:23:22.050 --> 01:23:24.850
a field like that so i imagine that's i know

01:23:24.850 --> 01:23:26.710
it's all science fiction but science fiction

01:23:26.710 --> 01:23:30.409
turns into science fact if you have real force

01:23:30.409 --> 01:23:34.340
fields around aircraft and battleships You win.

01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:37.279
You win. You can force your will upon anybody.

01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:40.600
And like I said, there's so much more to the

01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:44.619
story. When I was first there, there were Russian

01:23:44.619 --> 01:23:48.359
scientists at S4. This was early on in the project.

01:23:48.500 --> 01:23:50.619
So this was before Operation Paperclip became

01:23:50.619 --> 01:23:53.420
public as well, right? I would imagine. I don't

01:23:53.420 --> 01:23:57.020
know what the dates were. When was that? 98 I

01:23:57.020 --> 01:23:59.899
think 98 yeah, I don't know the dates on so it's

01:23:59.899 --> 01:24:02.140
been roughly ten years later operation paperclip

01:24:02.140 --> 01:24:04.640
becomes freedom of information Act We saw that

01:24:04.640 --> 01:24:07.100
Russia not Germany. He said Russian scientists

01:24:07.100 --> 01:24:09.439
Yeah, but I mean Russian scientists a lot of

01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:12.380
them came from Germany A lot of those those rocket

01:24:12.380 --> 01:24:14.460
scientists that work with NASA, they all came

01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:17.220
from Nazi scientists. Got it. So some Russians

01:24:17.220 --> 01:24:20.039
got some of them. I just know at some point there

01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:23.800
was intense cooperation with Russia, even exchanging

01:24:23.800 --> 01:24:26.180
some ideas on nuclear weapons and, you know,

01:24:26.380 --> 01:24:28.819
EMP tests and some things we would never have

01:24:28.819 --> 01:24:31.100
discussed with them. But at the same time, it

01:24:31.100 --> 01:24:34.220
was in the late 80s. They were involved and actually.

01:24:34.460 --> 01:24:38.560
in the area at S4 with us. So you got to communicate

01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:40.340
with these guys, or you saw them? No, I knew

01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:42.859
they were there. Barry would talk about the commies

01:24:42.859 --> 01:24:45.060
that were there. The commies? Yeah, the commies.

01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:48.119
That was back when they were the commies. Yeah,

01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:50.020
they were real commies. Isn't that interesting?

01:24:52.819 --> 01:24:55.579
At some point, it wasn't our group, but at some

01:24:55.579 --> 01:24:59.979
point, there was a big discovery made. And this

01:24:59.979 --> 01:25:01.560
did not happen when I was there. It happened

01:25:01.560 --> 01:25:04.770
in between my trips to there. And after that,

01:25:04.989 --> 01:25:07.270
apparently they decided it was just too cool

01:25:07.270 --> 01:25:09.029
to share with anybody, and the Russians were

01:25:09.029 --> 01:25:11.489
never allowed back on the base after that. But

01:25:11.489 --> 01:25:13.369
you don't know what that discovery was? No. No,

01:25:13.449 --> 01:25:15.130
like I said, it wasn't my group. So one of the

01:25:15.130 --> 01:25:18.949
other groups really found out something. But

01:25:18.949 --> 01:25:22.010
the, you know, in typical American fashion is,

01:25:22.029 --> 01:25:23.869
all right, this is ours. You guys get the hell

01:25:23.869 --> 01:25:27.210
out of here. Was there any inkling that any other

01:25:27.210 --> 01:25:30.770
government had something similar? No, not nothing

01:25:30.770 --> 01:25:32.770
that I had her see that was the thing that always

01:25:32.770 --> 01:25:36.270
freaked me out was why if if something was so

01:25:36.270 --> 01:25:38.770
Superior to human beings. It's almost like visiting

01:25:38.770 --> 01:25:41.350
an ant colony. Like why would you go to the Queen?

01:25:41.449 --> 01:25:43.270
I don't give a fuck who the Queen is. I'm a human

01:25:43.270 --> 01:25:45.869
I'm so superior to you ants. I don't care who

01:25:45.869 --> 01:25:47.949
you have running your hive. I'm just gonna study

01:25:47.949 --> 01:25:51.170
it I think it's who got it who got look at the

01:25:51.170 --> 01:25:54.069
you know rocket technology in Germany But they

01:25:54.069 --> 01:25:57.670
got nine of them Yeah, that doesn't make sense

01:25:57.670 --> 01:26:00.369
to me either. So they were either in the same

01:26:00.369 --> 01:26:03.869
area or, you know, one had clues to where others

01:26:03.869 --> 01:26:06.789
were. I mean, I don't know, you have to fill

01:26:06.789 --> 01:26:08.510
that in there, but you're right. I mean, nine

01:26:08.510 --> 01:26:12.670
of them, that's a big dig if it was archaeological.

01:26:12.770 --> 01:26:17.250
Well, one of the more recent sightings and these

01:26:17.250 --> 01:26:19.390
discussions that have been coming out recently

01:26:19.390 --> 01:26:21.689
from Air Force pilots and Navy pilots, they've

01:26:21.689 --> 01:26:23.470
been talking about things happening in the ocean.

01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:28.079
And that something literally goes into the water

01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.319
or something maybe below the surface of the water.

01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:31.899
You're thinking about the 2004 Tic Tac Nimitz

01:26:31.899 --> 01:26:33.899
case. So that's when George Knapp and I broke

01:26:33.899 --> 01:26:35.640
on the radio twice before the New York Times.

01:26:35.800 --> 01:26:37.819
So I know this one really well. Commander Fravor

01:26:37.819 --> 01:26:41.579
and those pilots. There was a disturbance on

01:26:41.579 --> 01:26:45.020
the surface of the water. Commander Fravor visually

01:26:45.020 --> 01:26:48.359
saw what looked like similar to a cross, some

01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:50.859
object. So it's like, as if you have some coral

01:26:50.859 --> 01:26:52.560
under the water and you've got, it's breaking

01:26:52.560 --> 01:26:55.100
over. Right. The Tic Tac is doing this crazy

01:26:55.100 --> 01:26:57.979
maneuver that defies. It's a gravity -propelled

01:26:57.979 --> 01:26:59.899
system. They saw it in the sky before they saw

01:26:59.899 --> 01:27:02.800
it in the water, right? Yeah, so there was radar

01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:04.680
that was picking these things coming down from

01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:07.079
80 ,000 feet and dropping to 50 feet in less

01:27:07.079 --> 01:27:09.380
than a second. This is it, Jamie? What is this?

01:27:09.420 --> 01:27:11.199
This is actually on the news today. There was

01:27:11.199 --> 01:27:13.460
a briefing. So a lot of people get this confused.

01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:16.479
Not this one, then, either? No, so that is called

01:27:16.479 --> 01:27:19.039
the gimbal. So there's three videos released

01:27:19.039 --> 01:27:21.220
by the Pentagon that are all actual. Just play

01:27:21.220 --> 01:27:24.939
and keep the volume up. I would really just pay

01:27:24.939 --> 01:27:26.699
attention to the source video. So you've got

01:27:26.699 --> 01:27:29.119
the tic -tac, which is this object that Commander

01:27:29.119 --> 01:27:32.060
Fravor saw. Another pilot filmed it with a FLIR

01:27:32.060 --> 01:27:35.279
pod, and it goes... But this one you see is really

01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:38.739
important to Bob's story. The gimbal craft. It's

01:27:38.739 --> 01:27:42.779
been recently analyzed. It's FLIR. Not only is

01:27:42.779 --> 01:27:46.199
it definitive that it's not a conventional anything

01:27:46.199 --> 01:27:49.140
by its movements, but there's a pocket of cold

01:27:49.140 --> 01:27:53.149
air around a propulsion source. So this object,

01:27:53.149 --> 01:27:56.890
by the way, sat stationary for days, if not weeks,

01:27:57.029 --> 01:27:59.810
it sat stationary. Yeah. They found it 11 hours

01:27:59.810 --> 01:28:01.989
later and they were saying there's no way this

01:28:01.989 --> 01:28:04.630
thing using that kind of energy to go that fast

01:28:04.630 --> 01:28:07.109
could just hover the amount of time. And by the

01:28:07.109 --> 01:28:09.109
way, you're seeing a very small part of what

01:28:09.109 --> 01:28:11.850
happened to that day. This object was not alone.

01:28:12.550 --> 01:28:15.430
And so hopefully that information comes out and

01:28:15.430 --> 01:28:17.710
we can, I mean, I wish we had video of it. I'm

01:28:17.710 --> 01:28:20.460
sure we'd all want to see it. But that's called

01:28:20.460 --> 01:28:24.239
the Gimbal. That was East Coast, right? 2015.

01:28:25.180 --> 01:28:28.439
West Coast, 2004, was the Tic -Tac. The disturbance

01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:30.640
on the water, Commander Fravor believes there

01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:33.079
was something under that water that was causing

01:28:33.079 --> 01:28:34.640
that disturbance when the Tic -Tac was coming

01:28:34.640 --> 01:28:37.739
around and doing it. With inside the people that

01:28:37.739 --> 01:28:39.899
are studying this, they're thinking maybe the

01:28:39.899 --> 01:28:42.220
Tic -Tac system was causing the disturbance,

01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:46.640
but the USO, unidentified submerged object, that

01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:49.819
he visually saw, The whole interesting thing

01:28:49.819 --> 01:28:52.439
about that is, I would love Bob to describe it,

01:28:52.640 --> 01:28:55.520
is why it doesn't matter if these craft are in

01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:58.819
space, air, or water. Why doesn't it matter?

01:28:58.819 --> 01:29:01.579
I love when he talks about this shit. Well, first

01:29:01.579 --> 01:29:04.279
of all, Commander Fravor was the F -18 pilot

01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:06.840
off the Nemets that was sent out to find out

01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:10.180
what this stuff is. And it wasn't just, I got

01:29:10.180 --> 01:29:12.960
a chance to talk to him recently, and it wasn't

01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:15.800
just a radar image. I mean, Commander Fravor

01:29:15.800 --> 01:29:19.319
had eyes on it. for over five minutes watching

01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:22.399
this thing as four other pilots did so it wasn't

01:29:22.399 --> 01:29:24.739
a radar blip or anything i mean these guys were

01:29:24.739 --> 01:29:28.659
watching this thing but um... you know one of

01:29:28.659 --> 01:29:32.460
the things i think in the gimbal video the way

01:29:32.460 --> 01:29:37.939
the craft that we worked on flies is it doesn't

01:29:37.939 --> 01:29:41.710
fly like a conventional aircraft does, and it

01:29:41.710 --> 01:29:45.149
doesn't fly like a flying saucer would in a 1950s

01:29:45.149 --> 01:29:48.890
movie. It flies belly first. I mean, it may set

01:29:48.890 --> 01:29:52.689
down conventionally, but it always rotates. It

01:29:52.689 --> 01:29:54.970
does a roll maneuver, puts its belly towards

01:29:54.970 --> 01:29:57.029
the target, and then moves away at high speed.

01:29:57.029 --> 01:29:59.510
So it would be like a car flying with the wheels

01:29:59.510 --> 01:30:02.810
forward. Right. Right. I mean, it may lift it,

01:30:02.850 --> 01:30:05.050
land on the wheels, but at some point when it

01:30:05.050 --> 01:30:07.840
wants to leave. flips up, points the wheels where

01:30:07.840 --> 01:30:09.819
it wants to go, and takes off. And the gimbal

01:30:09.819 --> 01:30:13.000
video, you can see the craft do the roll maneuver.

01:30:14.060 --> 01:30:16.619
And it's really interesting. It behaves exactly

01:30:16.619 --> 01:30:20.220
like the craft that I worked on. So much like

01:30:20.220 --> 01:30:22.739
we have different shaped aircrafts and fighter

01:30:22.739 --> 01:30:26.159
jets and cars, they probably have different shapes

01:30:26.159 --> 01:30:30.140
of these objects that operate under similar principles.

01:30:30.740 --> 01:30:33.579
Right, but they all have the same power source.

01:30:33.579 --> 01:30:35.180
They all have the same power source. And we're

01:30:35.180 --> 01:30:39.720
also dealing with, if you think about the laws

01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:42.600
of technological progression, you know, you think

01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:45.880
of Moore's law and you think of how things accelerate,

01:30:46.479 --> 01:30:48.720
you've got to think that if this civilization

01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:51.460
is who knows how many years more advanced than

01:30:51.460 --> 01:30:55.180
we are, if not even years, I mean, we're thinking

01:30:55.180 --> 01:30:56.920
about in terms of conventional terms, right,

01:30:56.979 --> 01:31:00.100
the way we look at the world. I mean, they might

01:31:00.100 --> 01:31:03.439
be just superior in terms of their intellect.

01:31:03.979 --> 01:31:06.319
They've got to be. Maybe. Maybe. We don't know,

01:31:06.340 --> 01:31:10.640
right? Well, the only reason I say that is because,

01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:14.300
look, everyone doesn't necessarily start at a

01:31:14.300 --> 01:31:16.760
steam engine and go to an internal combustion

01:31:16.760 --> 01:31:19.500
engine, and then, you know, electric power, nuclear

01:31:19.500 --> 01:31:21.920
power, and go up the ladder that we came in.

01:31:23.020 --> 01:31:25.359
you know the binary if the stuff is true about

01:31:25.359 --> 01:31:27.640
the origin and the binary star system and they

01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:30.420
have heavier elements that we don't have and

01:31:30.420 --> 01:31:33.119
this element stable element 115 is a naturally

01:31:33.119 --> 01:31:36.140
occurring material maybe that's the first thing

01:31:36.140 --> 01:31:38.579
they started experimenting with and the version

01:31:38.579 --> 01:31:41.460
of their steam engine their first product was

01:31:41.460 --> 01:31:44.060
something that operated like this and actually

01:31:44.060 --> 01:31:46.680
when they came to earth to look around or you

01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:48.899
know whatever they were amazed at the stuff we

01:31:48.899 --> 01:31:51.199
were doing these guys burn stuff and squirt it

01:31:51.199 --> 01:31:55.159
out the back to go forward. So who says they

01:31:55.159 --> 01:31:57.239
follow any kind of normal progression like that?

01:31:57.859 --> 01:32:01.560
My thought was if you went back to the 1400s

01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:04.399
and then you went from 1400 to 1500, you're not

01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:06.479
going to see that much of a difference technologically.

01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:11.119
If you go from 2000 to 3000, I assume there's

01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:14.119
going to be a radical change. Well, yeah, the

01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:18.439
Delta, the rate of change is magnificently higher.

01:32:18.619 --> 01:32:22.060
than it used to be. Right. So if you think about

01:32:22.060 --> 01:32:25.640
what they had in 1988, and you think about what

01:32:25.640 --> 01:32:31.579
they probably have in 2019, just logically seems

01:32:31.579 --> 01:32:34.739
like they would advance. I would think so. The

01:32:34.739 --> 01:32:39.159
only question is like, are they living? Is that

01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:41.659
a living thing in terms of like a biological

01:32:41.659 --> 01:32:45.680
thing? Or are they some sort of an artificially

01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:48.159
created creation like we are working on right

01:32:48.159 --> 01:32:50.300
now? I mean, we're in the middle of working on

01:32:50.300 --> 01:32:53.279
artificial reality, artificial beings, sentient

01:32:53.279 --> 01:32:55.920
beings, artificial intelligence. There's silicon

01:32:55.920 --> 01:32:57.739
-based life forms that they're essentially trying

01:32:57.739 --> 01:33:00.579
to create. Boston Dynamics, or was it Boston

01:33:00.579 --> 01:33:03.640
Dynamics at the time? Robots, yeah. You can make

01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:06.500
machines out of flesh, right? So a cyborg or

01:33:06.500 --> 01:33:08.260
a cybernetic organism is just that, you know,

01:33:08.260 --> 01:33:09.899
that's what a lot of people think those like

01:33:09.899 --> 01:33:11.880
gray things are, you know, that people call the

01:33:11.880 --> 01:33:14.420
grays. Yeah. Is like, they were like, they're

01:33:14.420 --> 01:33:17.140
machines printed from flesh. So what you're saying

01:33:17.140 --> 01:33:20.159
is, like, not so far off. No. Synthetic life.

01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:23.220
They don't even need to be, you know, machines.

01:33:23.220 --> 01:33:25.399
Well, they seem to have no sex organs, the way

01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:27.380
they're described by people that have had interactions

01:33:27.380 --> 01:33:29.079
with them, assuming these people aren't liars

01:33:29.079 --> 01:33:32.680
or crazy or whatever. Right. They have no sex

01:33:32.680 --> 01:33:36.060
organs and that they don't seem to have any muscle

01:33:36.060 --> 01:33:38.920
that is almost like a frame. Right. And they

01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:44.220
have enormous heads. I mean, if you look at Australopithecus

01:33:44.220 --> 01:33:46.920
or depictions of you know ancient hominids and

01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:48.760
then you go to human beings one of the things

01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:51.060
you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies well

01:33:51.060 --> 01:33:53.479
you see a clear progression of evolution yes

01:33:53.479 --> 01:33:57.060
where something like that I would lean towards

01:33:57.060 --> 01:33:59.619
synthetic organism because it looks like it was

01:33:59.619 --> 01:34:02.520
made for a specific task there's no reproductive

01:34:02.520 --> 01:34:05.380
organs so I mean that almost kind of leaves out

01:34:05.380 --> 01:34:08.130
any kind of you know, physical evolution. Right.

01:34:08.189 --> 01:34:10.029
Well, that's also our bottleneck, right? Our

01:34:10.029 --> 01:34:12.850
bottleneck is our biological imperative. The

01:34:12.850 --> 01:34:16.989
need to breed, emotions, fear, anxiety, all these

01:34:16.989 --> 01:34:19.970
different things that exist in order to force

01:34:19.970 --> 01:34:23.510
us into making sure we reproduce. I mean, that's

01:34:23.510 --> 01:34:25.729
essential. There's human reward systems that

01:34:25.729 --> 01:34:28.550
aren't necessary once they can figure out a way

01:34:28.550 --> 01:34:31.329
to make some sort of sentient, artificial life.

01:34:31.609 --> 01:34:34.050
some sort of thing that doesn't have these biological

01:34:34.050 --> 01:34:36.750
limitations that we have. By the way these craft

01:34:36.750 --> 01:34:38.310
all these different kinds have been reported

01:34:38.310 --> 01:34:39.689
because it was confusing I always thought of

01:34:39.689 --> 01:34:41.850
flying saucers what I heard Bob Lazar talk about

01:34:41.850 --> 01:34:44.449
flying saucer right but if you look back in history

01:34:44.449 --> 01:34:47.029
people have always reported the weirdest shapes

01:34:47.029 --> 01:34:49.649
like none of them are alike you know there are

01:34:49.649 --> 01:34:51.869
the saucers but you got cigar shaped you got

01:34:52.159 --> 01:34:55.119
you know, the top hat shape, you have orbs, why?

01:34:55.300 --> 01:34:57.640
Maybe they're serving different purposes, they're

01:34:57.640 --> 01:34:59.380
doing different things like we'd use different

01:34:59.380 --> 01:35:02.300
tools. And I want to be clear, the reason I know

01:35:02.300 --> 01:35:04.680
that memo is real is because I spent a lot of

01:35:04.680 --> 01:35:06.800
time with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, six man to walk

01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:09.460
on the moon, last guy to film him before he died,

01:35:09.539 --> 01:35:12.500
right? That's how I know I don't want any journalists

01:35:12.500 --> 01:35:14.239
thinking I got it from anywhere else. I know

01:35:14.239 --> 01:35:16.420
because of Dr. Mitchell, and he said the same

01:35:16.420 --> 01:35:19.619
thing, maybe these things are performing different

01:35:19.619 --> 01:35:22.430
tasks. You know, and that's what I've seen if

01:35:22.430 --> 01:35:24.649
you if you think about what an alien is in terms

01:35:24.649 --> 01:35:28.289
of our our The sort of iconic image of an alien

01:35:28.289 --> 01:35:30.729
like the Steven Spielberg closing cows are the

01:35:30.729 --> 01:35:35.609
third time the third kind alien they seem like

01:35:35.609 --> 01:35:38.390
What we'd assume a human being would eventually

01:35:38.390 --> 01:35:41.699
become right? And if these things are tiny, human

01:35:41.699 --> 01:35:43.279
beings are smaller than they've ever been before,

01:35:43.319 --> 01:35:44.760
they're weaker than they've ever been before,

01:35:44.760 --> 01:35:47.060
and there seems to be a trend in that direction.

01:35:47.380 --> 01:35:51.439
And this trend seems to be amplified by our technological

01:35:51.439 --> 01:35:55.659
progression, our lack of need for muscle strength

01:35:55.659 --> 01:35:58.000
and our lack of need for violence, and we're

01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:00.979
moving in a society to try to get away from all

01:36:00.979 --> 01:36:03.039
the things that we think are abhorrent about

01:36:03.039 --> 01:36:04.939
human beings and the terrible behaviors that

01:36:04.939 --> 01:36:09.930
we have. If we one day do give birth to some

01:36:09.930 --> 01:36:14.289
sort of an artificial being, like Marshall McLuhan's

01:36:14.289 --> 01:36:17.590
quote, we are the sex organs of the machine world.

01:36:17.960 --> 01:36:20.560
You know, that one day we... Okay, I'll buy this.

01:36:20.779 --> 01:36:23.680
Yeah, McLuhan was brilliant. And that quote has

01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:25.479
always been one of my favorites. Because, okay,

01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:28.539
what are we doing when we're constantly technologically

01:36:28.539 --> 01:36:31.140
innovating? We're constantly looking for faster

01:36:31.140 --> 01:36:33.739
cars, better computers, bigger screens, faster,

01:36:34.060 --> 01:36:36.260
more resolution, more pixels, more this, more

01:36:36.260 --> 01:36:39.159
that, higher bandwidth, 5G, 10G. What are we

01:36:39.159 --> 01:36:41.939
doing? We're moving into this... If you just

01:36:41.939 --> 01:36:44.840
follow it, objectively stand back, don't attach

01:36:44.840 --> 01:36:46.779
yourself or your civilization, your culture to

01:36:46.779 --> 01:36:50.470
it, and look at what... it is, we're moving 100

01:36:50.470 --> 01:36:53.789
% towards technological innovation. If you looked

01:36:53.789 --> 01:36:56.149
at this species from afar, and if you weren't

01:36:56.149 --> 01:36:57.310
a part of it, you would say, well, what does

01:36:57.310 --> 01:36:59.869
this species do? Oh, they make things. They make

01:36:59.869 --> 01:37:02.210
things better every year. Beehives are the same

01:37:02.210 --> 01:37:04.369
fucking thing that you see 10 years ago. You

01:37:04.369 --> 01:37:06.250
go by, you see a beehive. It's amazing. It's

01:37:06.250 --> 01:37:08.050
cool. But they're the same fucking thing. They

01:37:08.050 --> 01:37:09.710
figured out how to do it. They make a beehive.

01:37:10.010 --> 01:37:13.149
We don't do that. We make better things constantly.

01:37:13.539 --> 01:37:15.680
And at some point, I think that technology is

01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:17.720
going to fuse with us. Yes. And we're going to

01:37:17.720 --> 01:37:19.260
be coming. It's already happening. Yeah. And

01:37:19.260 --> 01:37:20.880
Elon Musk talked about it on my podcast, that

01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:22.859
we are cyborgs. You just carry it in your pocket.

01:37:22.899 --> 01:37:25.100
It's a phone. It answers any question you want.

01:37:25.279 --> 01:37:27.140
You can talk to it. It will give you the answers

01:37:27.140 --> 01:37:30.939
instantaneously. It navigates you. It has all

01:37:30.939 --> 01:37:32.779
your phone numbers in it. It has all your contacts.

01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:34.319
You can get a hold of people, people listening

01:37:34.319 --> 01:37:36.380
to you through it. It's connecting us in ways

01:37:36.380 --> 01:37:39.020
even involuntarily. Haptics, that kind of thing.

01:37:39.020 --> 01:37:40.960
Yeah. It's also getting on your wrist. How many

01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:43.420
people have eye watches, Apple watches? Well,

01:37:43.420 --> 01:37:45.600
right. Right. And that's only because we can't

01:37:45.600 --> 01:37:47.659
integrate them yet. But you know that point is

01:37:47.659 --> 01:37:50.020
common. 100%. Yeah. I didn't joke about it last

01:37:50.020 --> 01:37:52.380
night, but I have a bit about it that I do, about

01:37:52.380 --> 01:37:54.500
the integration between humans and technology.

01:37:54.989 --> 01:37:57.470
What would you do if you were a hyperintelligence,

01:37:57.649 --> 01:38:00.090
right? Would you do the work yourself or would

01:38:00.090 --> 01:38:02.369
you create some cool things called like humans

01:38:02.369 --> 01:38:04.449
to do it for you? Would you create things that

01:38:04.449 --> 01:38:07.109
are cybernetic organisms to come in with machines

01:38:07.109 --> 01:38:09.270
and do it for you? If you were a hyperintelligence

01:38:09.270 --> 01:38:11.569
that has kind of changed like you've described,

01:38:11.909 --> 01:38:14.329
you'd probably create workers, right? Well, that's

01:38:14.329 --> 01:38:16.750
a vast conspiracy theory. I'm not talking about

01:38:16.750 --> 01:38:18.449
conspiracy, but it is a kind of a conspiracy.

01:38:18.770 --> 01:38:21.130
I'm asking you. Well, I mean, I don't think it's

01:38:21.130 --> 01:38:23.609
necessarily that. I mean, you could look at it

01:38:23.609 --> 01:38:25.770
that way, but that is the way a conspiracy theorist

01:38:25.770 --> 01:38:27.149
would look at it. The way I would look at it

01:38:27.149 --> 01:38:29.250
is, like, there's obviously a progression going

01:38:29.250 --> 01:38:31.909
on, a biological progression. There's some sort

01:38:31.909 --> 01:38:34.130
of an integration with technology. There's some

01:38:34.130 --> 01:38:37.029
sort of imperative, this need for technological

01:38:37.029 --> 01:38:39.390
innovation. It's inescapable. Everyone has it.

01:38:39.630 --> 01:38:41.869
And I think it's attached to materialism in some

01:38:41.869 --> 01:38:44.409
sort of a strange way, because so many people

01:38:44.409 --> 01:38:47.149
work so hard to get new things. And like, God,

01:38:47.149 --> 01:38:48.930
that seems so illogical and preposterous, and

01:38:48.930 --> 01:38:50.529
it makes people unhappy, and depression's on

01:38:50.529 --> 01:38:52.550
the rise, but nobody seems to be able to Why

01:38:52.550 --> 01:38:57.130
is that? Well, maybe it's because we are the

01:38:57.130 --> 01:38:59.970
electronic caterpillars that give birth to the

01:38:59.970 --> 01:39:01.949
butterfly. Maybe that's what we're doing. That

01:39:01.949 --> 01:39:04.529
could very well be. What our job is to do is

01:39:04.529 --> 01:39:06.970
to make some sort of a cocoon. And we don't even

01:39:06.970 --> 01:39:09.390
know we're doing it while we're doing it. Do

01:39:09.390 --> 01:39:11.149
you think a caterpillar is, well, hey, caterpillar,

01:39:11.170 --> 01:39:13.689
what are you doing? Man, I'm doing my thing.

01:39:13.689 --> 01:39:15.590
It's my job. I have to make a cocoon. I'm going

01:39:15.590 --> 01:39:16.970
to become like a butterfly. This could be a natural

01:39:16.970 --> 01:39:19.090
part of evolution. It could be. That we're just

01:39:19.090 --> 01:39:21.449
supposed to do this. Exactly. And make the jump

01:39:21.449 --> 01:39:25.170
to some sort of mechanized. Right. Yeah, non

01:39:25.170 --> 01:39:26.750
-biological. Have you ever seen an orangutan

01:39:26.750 --> 01:39:31.859
that is fishing with a spear? No. They've figured

01:39:31.859 --> 01:39:36.180
out how to fish with spears. There's, there's

01:39:36.180 --> 01:39:38.800
primatologists. Wait, without somebody showing

01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:40.979
them how to fish? No, they've imitated human

01:39:40.979 --> 01:39:43.479
beings doing it. And now they do it, but they

01:39:43.479 --> 01:39:46.500
do it independently. They're not trained orangutans.

01:39:46.579 --> 01:39:49.439
They're wild orangutans. Look at that. There's

01:39:49.439 --> 01:39:51.979
a wild orangutan. That's impressive. That's impressive.

01:39:52.479 --> 01:39:55.039
Well, there's these primatologists, I guess you

01:39:55.039 --> 01:39:56.619
would call them primatologists. That's a term.

01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:59.260
That's a great term. Biologists that believe

01:39:59.260 --> 01:40:03.689
that monkeys and chimps and some of the great

01:40:03.689 --> 01:40:06.350
apes are moving into the Stone Age, that they've

01:40:06.350 --> 01:40:08.649
currently entered the Stone Age. Like they're

01:40:08.649 --> 01:40:12.250
not staying what they were 100 ,000 years ago

01:40:12.250 --> 01:40:14.949
or 500 ,000 years ago, but they're actively using

01:40:14.949 --> 01:40:17.789
tools and they're experimenting with different

01:40:17.789 --> 01:40:20.369
ways to use those tools and then they're making

01:40:20.369 --> 01:40:22.329
tools out of stone. They're making tools out

01:40:22.329 --> 01:40:25.789
of sticks and they're using them. Well, this

01:40:25.789 --> 01:40:28.949
might just be what happens. This might just be

01:40:28.949 --> 01:40:32.140
what happens. Thank you. Mean why else why would

01:40:32.140 --> 01:40:34.880
why the fuck we work so hard? I mean, I was I

01:40:34.880 --> 01:40:37.520
was driving to LA this morning I had a doctor's

01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:40.180
appointment So I was on the 405 at 8 in the morning,

01:40:40.220 --> 01:40:43.319
but Jesus Christ Like this is so crazy when you're

01:40:43.319 --> 01:40:45.060
in the 405 in LA at 8 o 'clock in the morning

01:40:45.060 --> 01:40:48.000
You see literally a million cars and it's just

01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:50.699
everywhere you go as people but and also I'm

01:40:50.699 --> 01:40:53.640
in a Tesla So I have it on autopilot. So I'm

01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:55.920
there sitting. I'm listening to a podcast. I

01:40:55.920 --> 01:40:57.859
barely have my hand on the wheel I'm not touching

01:40:57.859 --> 01:41:00.859
shit. This car is driving me along I'm not even

01:41:00.859 --> 01:41:03.739
doing anything. I'm just hanging out. It's so

01:41:03.739 --> 01:41:05.619
much less stressful, by the way, to do it that

01:41:05.619 --> 01:41:08.680
way. So it encourages you to innovate. It encourages

01:41:08.680 --> 01:41:11.600
you to embrace this new technology. I got this

01:41:11.600 --> 01:41:13.680
giant screen. It's showing me the navigation

01:41:13.680 --> 01:41:15.760
in front of me. Oh, I'll be there five minutes

01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:18.640
early. Excellent. And I'm listening to a podcast

01:41:18.640 --> 01:41:21.979
wirelessly. It's Bluetooth streaming from my

01:41:21.979 --> 01:41:24.119
phone. And I pulled that podcast, which came

01:41:24.119 --> 01:41:27.020
out today, out of the fucking sky. And I'm listening

01:41:27.020 --> 01:41:29.079
to it. And I'm all comfortable in my nice little

01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:31.359
car. driving on my way to the doctor's office.

01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:33.500
This is irresistible stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's

01:41:33.500 --> 01:41:35.600
different than your Walkman, you know, back in

01:41:35.600 --> 01:41:37.909
the day. It is irresistible. It is irresistible.

01:41:38.010 --> 01:41:40.449
It's frighteningly irresistible. But is it frightening?

01:41:40.489 --> 01:41:42.630
I mean, if you were a monkey, right, if you were

01:41:42.630 --> 01:41:45.409
an Australopithecus, would you go, man, I don't

01:41:45.409 --> 01:41:47.569
want to fucking be a person and live in a house?

01:41:47.569 --> 01:41:49.710
That's bullshit. I like just swinging around

01:41:49.710 --> 01:41:52.550
on trees. I like running from jaguars. This is

01:41:52.550 --> 01:41:55.210
life. Guys, life is running from crocodiles.

01:41:55.229 --> 01:41:56.710
It's not living in a fucking suburban community.

01:41:56.710 --> 01:41:58.350
No, there's probably some that are like that.

01:41:58.409 --> 01:42:01.590
Yeah, I don't think so. I think when it comes,

01:42:01.630 --> 01:42:03.369
we're going to embrace it. We're going to embrace

01:42:03.369 --> 01:42:05.609
it the same way you embrace cell phones, the

01:42:05.609 --> 01:42:07.420
same way you embrace Television there's gonna

01:42:07.420 --> 01:42:09.119
be a few holdouts. I don't even have an email

01:42:09.119 --> 01:42:11.260
address, man Those are those like there's a few

01:42:11.260 --> 01:42:13.039
and far between the good luck with that fucked

01:42:13.039 --> 01:42:15.520
face go move to the woods Ted Kaczynski. Yeah

01:42:15.520 --> 01:42:19.420
Ted Kaczynski was right This is something that

01:42:19.420 --> 01:42:21.380
I think about sometimes when I get really high

01:42:21.380 --> 01:42:24.779
that Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard

01:42:24.779 --> 01:42:27.560
LSD studies This has been proven Ted Kaczynski

01:42:27.560 --> 01:42:29.979
They cooked his fucking brain when he was at

01:42:29.979 --> 01:42:31.699
Harvard and then when he went over to Berkeley

01:42:31.699 --> 01:42:34.100
and became a professor His goal was to make enough

01:42:34.100 --> 01:42:36.560
money so that he could implement this program

01:42:36.560 --> 01:42:39.119
and live in the woods and then write his manifesto

01:42:39.119 --> 01:42:41.699
and start killing people that were involved in

01:42:41.699 --> 01:42:44.319
propagating technology. He was expunged from

01:42:44.319 --> 01:42:47.279
the Harvard logs, by the way. This is something

01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:49.699
my friend just called me about. So there's like

01:42:49.699 --> 01:42:53.340
this private library and they used to print people's

01:42:53.340 --> 01:42:55.079
names whenever they were part of a university

01:42:55.079 --> 01:42:57.699
and he was one of a handful of people that were

01:42:57.699 --> 01:43:00.140
expunged from it. I want to jump back to the

01:43:00.140 --> 01:43:02.800
one thing, Joe. I want to be very careful with

01:43:02.800 --> 01:43:05.399
that word conspiracy theorist. What I was what

01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:08.079
I was saying to you was we terraform our earth,

01:43:08.100 --> 01:43:10.800
right? We terraform we change the environment.

01:43:10.800 --> 01:43:13.800
We do all this innovation What is stopping us

01:43:13.800 --> 01:43:16.220
from thinking that that's not being done? I'm

01:43:16.220 --> 01:43:18.140
not saying it is I'm saying what's stopping us

01:43:18.140 --> 01:43:20.579
from thinking that that's being done on a much

01:43:20.579 --> 01:43:23.180
bigger level on a cosmic level You mean like

01:43:23.180 --> 01:43:25.140
aliens coming down doing that to humans? Well,

01:43:25.140 --> 01:43:27.079
I'm telling you that there is something here.

01:43:27.079 --> 01:43:29.479
That's there's a fact, you know, there's something

01:43:29.479 --> 01:43:31.720
there are craft. They're here They're not ours.

01:43:31.720 --> 01:43:34.949
They're here. So the question is What is that

01:43:34.949 --> 01:43:37.189
about? And I'm just looking at what we do with

01:43:37.189 --> 01:43:39.569
what you're describing with technology. I think

01:43:39.569 --> 01:43:42.710
it's much more likely that the same way we observe

01:43:42.710 --> 01:43:45.649
chimps. and we observe that they are now in the

01:43:45.649 --> 01:43:47.909
Stone Age, that they're observing us, and that

01:43:47.909 --> 01:43:49.529
they're recognizing that there is a pattern,

01:43:49.750 --> 01:43:52.529
that there is a, there's steps that happen. I

01:43:52.529 --> 01:43:54.750
mean, Carl Sagan talked about the different levels

01:43:54.750 --> 01:43:56.810
of civilization and that, you know, that if we

01:43:56.810 --> 01:43:59.210
don't get past certain levels, we're never going

01:43:59.210 --> 01:44:01.689
to reach this. I mean, we're in a type one civilization.

01:44:01.750 --> 01:44:03.229
We're going to stay at type zero. Well, we're

01:44:03.229 --> 01:44:08.510
in this warring. polluting, pillaging civilization.

01:44:09.149 --> 01:44:11.310
It's like, well, we're awesome in a lot of ways,

01:44:11.569 --> 01:44:13.369
you know, but in that way we're not, but yeah,

01:44:13.470 --> 01:44:15.449
we're, we're, we're children that have immense

01:44:15.449 --> 01:44:17.489
power that we didn't really. The other thing

01:44:17.489 --> 01:44:20.250
is you're using the immense power that other

01:44:20.250 --> 01:44:22.390
people have created, right? I mean, even when

01:44:22.390 --> 01:44:24.010
you're driving a car, you're stomping on the

01:44:24.010 --> 01:44:26.350
gas, like, woo, you didn't invent the fucking

01:44:26.350 --> 01:44:28.750
engine. You didn't invent tires. There's all

01:44:28.750 --> 01:44:31.409
these things that were involved in the creation

01:44:31.409 --> 01:44:35.909
of this thing that is really outside of your

01:44:35.909 --> 01:44:38.529
grasp of understanding, but yet you have the

01:44:38.529 --> 01:44:40.289
ability to use it. Like a person with a gun,

01:44:40.569 --> 01:44:42.909
I'm just gonna bang, bang, bang people. You didn't

01:44:42.909 --> 01:44:47.369
invent a gun. So without the intellect to craft

01:44:47.369 --> 01:44:52.170
and engineer and manifest these creations, you

01:44:52.170 --> 01:44:54.029
just have access to them because you have paper

01:44:54.029 --> 01:44:56.310
or you have Bitcoin or whatever the fuck you're

01:44:56.310 --> 01:44:59.430
using, using a credit card. Now you have almost

01:44:59.430 --> 01:45:02.399
no responsibility. You could just flippantly

01:45:02.399 --> 01:45:06.100
use these things, which is why we, you know,

01:45:06.159 --> 01:45:09.359
we were very childlike in our actions. We haven't

01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:11.960
had to earn the responsibility. We haven't had

01:45:11.960 --> 01:45:14.859
to earn these things that we've been able to

01:45:14.859 --> 01:45:16.800
have, and you've only been able to have them

01:45:16.800 --> 01:45:19.439
because other people have innovated and spent.

01:45:20.590 --> 01:45:22.710
ungodly amounts of time and effort and focus

01:45:22.710 --> 01:45:25.149
in the lab to create these things and then they've

01:45:25.149 --> 01:45:27.750
all put them together and then what is the what's

01:45:27.750 --> 01:45:29.670
the reason to put them together to profit? Well,

01:45:29.789 --> 01:45:31.289
what's the reason to profit? Well, why are you

01:45:31.289 --> 01:45:33.130
doing this so you can buy more things? What are

01:45:33.130 --> 01:45:35.630
we doing? What are we doing? We're making better

01:45:35.630 --> 01:45:38.010
things. That's what we do. That's all we do.

01:45:38.010 --> 01:45:39.470
That's all we do is make better things. Yeah.

01:45:39.529 --> 01:45:41.310
Why the fuck do we need oil? Why do we need oil?

01:45:41.409 --> 01:45:44.069
Why can't we just burn wood and stay home? Why

01:45:44.069 --> 01:45:46.510
can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard?

01:45:46.890 --> 01:45:48.750
Why can't we do it? Well, we fucking can. We

01:45:48.750 --> 01:45:50.890
certainly can. People do do it. But we decide

01:45:50.890 --> 01:45:53.649
to make that almost impossible. Our preferred

01:45:53.649 --> 01:45:56.390
way of living is to stuff everyone into a very

01:45:56.390 --> 01:45:58.090
small area where no one grows anything other

01:45:58.090 --> 01:46:02.159
than weed. This is what LA is. LA is 20 million

01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:05.060
people with hard surfaces, as many hard surfaces

01:46:05.060 --> 01:46:07.340
as you can. Boy, if you got an acre backyard

01:46:07.340 --> 01:46:09.739
in LA, holy shit, look at all that grain. This

01:46:09.739 --> 01:46:12.140
is amazing. Well, no, that's the fucking earth

01:46:12.140 --> 01:46:15.710
coming through this weird sort of... Creation

01:46:15.710 --> 01:46:17.510
that we've put on top of the earth, but the goal

01:46:17.510 --> 01:46:19.909
is that like New York City That's there's none

01:46:19.909 --> 01:46:21.850
of it, right? You just got you've got Central

01:46:21.850 --> 01:46:24.789
Park, and they just got human shit. He's stacked

01:46:24.789 --> 01:46:27.470
up No one's growing anything and then constant

01:46:27.470 --> 01:46:32.229
work. Everyone's up early go go go innovate progress

01:46:32.229 --> 01:46:34.970
make that money so you can buy more things and

01:46:34.970 --> 01:46:37.529
Every year hey Apple. Where's this fucking new

01:46:37.529 --> 01:46:40.949
phone as if your phone isn't good enough? Your

01:46:40.949 --> 01:46:43.569
phone's taking pictures and videos and people

01:46:43.569 --> 01:46:46.109
are calling And you got applications to tell

01:46:46.109 --> 01:46:48.229
you which way the winds blowing. That's not good

01:46:48.229 --> 01:46:50.289
enough a blink of an eye blink of an eye It's

01:46:50.289 --> 01:46:52.510
all gone though that you know like 10 ,000 years

01:46:52.510 --> 01:46:54.369
and the Hoover Dam goes or whatever you know

01:46:54.369 --> 01:46:57.149
Mount Rushmore Disintegrate so it's amazing because

01:46:57.149 --> 01:46:59.289
we have created that and and everything's trying

01:46:59.289 --> 01:47:01.090
to spring up through that we keep it maintenance

01:47:01.090 --> 01:47:04.050
down But we're we're a blink man something hits,

01:47:04.590 --> 01:47:06.329
but we don't think that way Well, you know you

01:47:06.329 --> 01:47:08.289
think in terms of your own life right you think

01:47:08.289 --> 01:47:10.569
in terms of what you want and what you need right

01:47:10.569 --> 01:47:14.500
now You know what it's? we are in many ways this

01:47:14.500 --> 01:47:17.659
combination of this weird primitive ape -like

01:47:17.659 --> 01:47:22.789
thing with The ability to calculate and manipulate

01:47:22.789 --> 01:47:25.050
our world and our environment that makes us wholly

01:47:25.050 --> 01:47:27.729
unique on top of that with existential angst.

01:47:28.210 --> 01:47:29.649
And and and fear so what do you do with that

01:47:29.649 --> 01:47:32.229
we fucking water it down with the antidepressants

01:47:32.229 --> 01:47:33.869
give these fucking people some shit that keeps

01:47:33.869 --> 01:47:36.029
them moving whether worried about the future

01:47:36.029 --> 01:47:38.069
the trying to figure out what reality is it this

01:47:38.069 --> 01:47:40.489
you're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spending

01:47:40.489 --> 01:47:43.109
a thousand miles an hour hurling through infinity

01:47:43.109 --> 01:47:45.550
there's no meaning to this thing just keep making

01:47:45.550 --> 01:47:49.100
shit. Keep making stuff. And then one day they're

01:47:49.100 --> 01:47:51.140
going to be able to hit that switch and this

01:47:51.140 --> 01:47:54.819
life will be born out of innovation and thinking

01:47:54.819 --> 01:47:58.859
and progress and technology. And more than likely,

01:47:58.899 --> 01:48:01.460
it's probably going to be what we're seeing that

01:48:01.460 --> 01:48:03.500
these things are that you're, you're, you're

01:48:03.500 --> 01:48:06.260
observing. I'm not observing them, but yeah.

01:48:06.300 --> 01:48:09.859
Are you implying that they're us? I don't think

01:48:09.859 --> 01:48:12.720
they are us, but I think they are what happens

01:48:12.720 --> 01:48:15.779
when things keep going. Mm -hmm. It's not us

01:48:15.779 --> 01:48:18.260
just like we're not monkeys, right? I'm not a

01:48:18.260 --> 01:48:21.890
champ That's cool. They're from here is your

01:48:21.890 --> 01:48:24.789
idea. No, no, no that this is what happens all

01:48:24.789 --> 01:48:27.210
over the universe, right? Yeah, this is what

01:48:27.210 --> 01:48:28.850
happened. Look, here's the thing. You know, I

01:48:28.850 --> 01:48:33.390
went to see Brian Cox's He has this amazing live

01:48:33.390 --> 01:48:36.550
show with Robin Ince where they they they have

01:48:36.550 --> 01:48:40.569
these LED screens these huge screens with high

01:48:40.569 --> 01:48:43.250
-resolution Depictions of the cosmos and one

01:48:43.250 --> 01:48:47.479
of the most mind -blowing things was he has this

01:48:47.479 --> 01:48:50.300
large -scale image of the universe and it shows

01:48:50.300 --> 01:48:52.760
all the Individual galaxies the universe and

01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:55.100
it just keeps moving through all these galaxies

01:48:55.100 --> 01:48:58.039
in three dimensions and it's fucking incredible

01:48:58.039 --> 01:49:01.159
But what's stunning is the relative uniformity

01:49:01.159 --> 01:49:03.939
of it even at you know, I mean you're obviously

01:49:03.939 --> 01:49:08.340
looking at incredibly small depiction of something

01:49:08.340 --> 01:49:11.000
that's immensely large like a galaxy of hundreds

01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:12.760
of billions of stars you're seeing it as this

01:49:12.760 --> 01:49:15.560
little dot but this little dot that's flying

01:49:15.560 --> 01:49:18.859
through space surrounded by other little darts

01:49:18.859 --> 01:49:23.439
with very similarly spaced distances yeah so

01:49:23.439 --> 01:49:27.579
Mike if we see uniformity in that form in terms

01:49:27.579 --> 01:49:29.880
of like the distance between gals like so many

01:49:29.880 --> 01:49:32.420
galaxies is so it's so similar they might vary

01:49:32.420 --> 01:49:34.479
slightly and that slightly might be hundreds

01:49:34.479 --> 01:49:36.859
of millions of light years right but but but

01:49:36.859 --> 01:49:39.979
there's so much uniformity why would we not assume

01:49:39.979 --> 01:49:42.500
that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere

01:49:42.500 --> 01:49:44.460
and that all these things that you're seeing

01:49:44.460 --> 01:49:47.789
that are so similar you do see Binary star systems

01:49:47.789 --> 01:49:49.869
you do see single star systems like star But

01:49:49.869 --> 01:49:52.109
there's also some some speculation that earth

01:49:52.109 --> 01:49:54.289
and that our solar system was one time was a

01:49:54.289 --> 01:49:56.329
binary star system, right? I mean, that's one

01:49:56.329 --> 01:49:59.090
of the speculations about that that object that

01:49:59.090 --> 01:50:01.130
they find outside the Kuiper belt that the thing

01:50:01.130 --> 01:50:03.029
is ten times larger than earth they think it

01:50:03.029 --> 01:50:04.590
might have been at one point in time a star,

01:50:04.970 --> 01:50:08.229
but this this uniformity that you see, why wouldn't

01:50:08.229 --> 01:50:11.829
we think that that has its same implications

01:50:11.829 --> 01:50:14.670
biologically? That there's some sort of a biological

01:50:14.670 --> 01:50:17.770
uniformity and that this happens given the right

01:50:17.770 --> 01:50:19.869
sets of circumstances. It could be. You should

01:50:19.869 --> 01:50:22.170
tell him some of the stuff that you've read that

01:50:22.170 --> 01:50:24.710
you don't know is true. I mean, if the stuff

01:50:24.710 --> 01:50:27.670
was true about the propulsion stuff, I mean,

01:50:27.729 --> 01:50:29.569
anyway, he... Well, what have you read? What

01:50:29.569 --> 01:50:31.449
have you read? What you saw, too. I mean, you

01:50:31.449 --> 01:50:34.689
know? What are you talking about? Spill the beans

01:50:34.689 --> 01:50:38.130
Bob. I got to poke the bear here. Get some more

01:50:38.130 --> 01:50:44.850
liquor in you the Well, I mean The again the

01:50:44.850 --> 01:50:48.090
the only thing I could verify was what I had

01:50:48.090 --> 01:50:52.069
my hands on They were you know, there was talk

01:50:52.069 --> 01:50:55.189
of weapon systems that there were different projects

01:50:55.189 --> 01:50:57.850
Project Galileo project sidekick was supposed

01:50:57.850 --> 01:51:01.460
to be weapon applications of the craft Project

01:51:01.460 --> 01:51:04.380
Looking Glass had to do with time, any effects

01:51:04.380 --> 01:51:06.779
of time in the craft. Now, I don't think, we're

01:51:06.779 --> 01:51:09.819
not talking about making a time machine like

01:51:09.819 --> 01:51:12.159
in science fiction, but we're talking about,

01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:14.739
you know, small distortions, intentional distortions

01:51:14.739 --> 01:51:18.460
of time, and how that can be used, you know,

01:51:18.840 --> 01:51:22.140
as a, not as a, well, it was part of a weapon

01:51:22.140 --> 01:51:24.260
program. How were you informed in this? These,

01:51:24.260 --> 01:51:26.819
again, were just the small briefings that I read,

01:51:27.119 --> 01:51:29.770
but Again, I don't really like to talk about

01:51:29.770 --> 01:51:31.810
those because I don't have any information on

01:51:31.810 --> 01:51:34.149
him and it was just, you know, small briefings.

01:51:34.369 --> 01:51:36.510
But you told Commander Fravor that what he saw

01:51:36.510 --> 01:51:40.029
might have been a time dilation. Well, it could

01:51:40.029 --> 01:51:43.069
be, because gravity affects time, you know, space

01:51:43.069 --> 01:51:46.689
-time. I'm sure you've heard of that. And, you

01:51:46.689 --> 01:51:50.090
know, what Commander Fravor saw as he was in

01:51:50.090 --> 01:51:53.689
the F -18 approaching it, he said he described

01:51:53.689 --> 01:51:56.659
it as a a ping -pong ball in a cup and shaking

01:51:56.659 --> 01:51:59.500
it back and forth. It was moving that fast. Now,

01:51:59.500 --> 01:52:01.300
obviously, if there's anything inside there,

01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:04.859
it's going to be battered to hell. But, you know,

01:52:04.859 --> 01:52:09.159
my point was that, well, one of two things. Either

01:52:09.159 --> 01:52:11.460
there's a gravitational envelope in there which

01:52:11.460 --> 01:52:16.560
negates any inertia effects, or you are seeing

01:52:16.560 --> 01:52:20.439
through a gravity distortion field. So, you know,

01:52:20.439 --> 01:52:23.720
just like you're looking at a hot highway and

01:52:23.720 --> 01:52:27.069
you see You know, an optical distortion going

01:52:27.069 --> 01:52:29.109
through there. Well, the same thing happens in

01:52:29.109 --> 01:52:31.250
gravity and the craft may not actually be moving

01:52:31.250 --> 01:52:33.970
like that. It may just look like it because you're

01:52:33.970 --> 01:52:36.609
seeing, you can only see it through the field.

01:52:36.930 --> 01:52:40.449
So it may be making much more gentle moves. I'm

01:52:40.449 --> 01:52:43.250
not saying that's it, but it has to be one of

01:52:43.250 --> 01:52:46.729
the two. And the thing shows up 60 miles away.

01:52:46.970 --> 01:52:50.539
They noticed it on radar. 60 seconds after it

01:52:50.539 --> 01:52:53.079
left Commander Fravor, but it was at his cap

01:52:53.079 --> 01:52:55.020
point, which is the next point he was destined

01:52:55.020 --> 01:52:59.579
to go to, 60 miles away, and in 60 seconds on

01:52:59.579 --> 01:53:03.960
radar, the same object ends up there. So it's

01:53:03.960 --> 01:53:07.560
going a mile second? No. I think the radar just

01:53:07.560 --> 01:53:10.420
picked it up in 60 seconds. Yeah, it could have

01:53:10.420 --> 01:53:12.539
been there instantly, but yeah. We don't know.

01:53:12.680 --> 01:53:15.039
Cycle time nobody knows that that's the whole

01:53:15.039 --> 01:53:18.199
thing. So it cycles like radar cycles. Yeah,

01:53:18.199 --> 01:53:21.100
it doesn't it doesn't sweep, but I mean it scans

01:53:21.100 --> 01:53:24.319
Yeah, it's a planar array. So it just you know,

01:53:24.319 --> 01:53:27.020
it scans around it random place The spy one does

01:53:27.020 --> 01:53:29.319
the really cool. Yeah doesn't do the whole loop

01:53:29.319 --> 01:53:32.199
anymore, right? The point the point is though

01:53:32.199 --> 01:53:35.979
that the craft moved to his next location before

01:53:35.979 --> 01:53:39.199
he knew where his next location was gonna be

01:53:39.199 --> 01:53:44.109
Jesus and that's Mean that's well documented.

01:53:44.449 --> 01:53:48.050
So that's a that's a pretty shocking piece of

01:53:48.050 --> 01:53:50.289
information What's fascinating to me too is that

01:53:50.289 --> 01:53:54.649
you were discussing this the the way this? Reactor

01:53:54.649 --> 01:53:56.729
worked and that these things were not really

01:53:56.729 --> 01:54:01.170
connected No, nothing is connected. There's no

01:54:01.170 --> 01:54:06.630
wiring at all That freaks me the fuck out charge

01:54:06.630 --> 01:54:10.149
your iPhone, you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:54:10.149 --> 01:54:12.880
I mean, that's the that's a Well, I mean Tesla.

01:54:13.590 --> 01:54:16.710
Yeah, I know again, but that's just simple electromagnetic

01:54:16.710 --> 01:54:19.250
induction. Right, but I mean, Tesla, the scientist,

01:54:19.449 --> 01:54:21.569
had this concept of... Right, that's what he

01:54:21.569 --> 01:54:22.710
said. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. I

01:54:22.710 --> 01:54:23.729
mean, for other people that don't know what I'm

01:54:23.729 --> 01:54:27.029
saying, he wanted to send wireless electricity

01:54:27.029 --> 01:54:28.850
through the sky, and Westinghouse was like, get

01:54:28.850 --> 01:54:30.949
the fuck out of here with that. Like, when anybody

01:54:30.949 --> 01:54:32.949
could just pull electricity out of the sky...

01:54:32.949 --> 01:54:34.329
Can't meter it. Yeah, they couldn't. They couldn't

01:54:34.329 --> 01:54:35.829
meter it. We had this talk in the car right over,

01:54:35.850 --> 01:54:37.289
trying to chill him out, you know, we're talking

01:54:37.289 --> 01:54:39.510
about Tesla, and how, you know, he couldn't be

01:54:39.510 --> 01:54:41.409
metered, and how it all went down. So it's funny

01:54:41.409 --> 01:54:45.470
you bring it up. Yeah, I mean, who knows what

01:54:45.470 --> 01:54:47.869
would have happened in terms of innovation had

01:54:47.869 --> 01:54:50.229
he been allowed to go forward with that. Well,

01:54:50.350 --> 01:54:52.810
we probably wouldn't have computers. You think?

01:54:53.630 --> 01:54:55.890
Yeah, I'm pretty positive. I mean, forget about

01:54:55.890 --> 01:54:58.750
microelectronics. Well, this is dumping huge

01:54:58.750 --> 01:55:01.010
amounts of electromagnetic energy in the air.

01:55:01.109 --> 01:55:03.789
And yeah, we'd be able to wirelessly turn on

01:55:03.789 --> 01:55:07.800
our lights, but... There'd be no radio communication

01:55:07.800 --> 01:55:09.680
the interference would be something we could

01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:12.520
would be overwhelming It would induce electric

01:55:12.520 --> 01:55:14.960
currents and anything with a small wire on it.

01:55:14.960 --> 01:55:17.960
So integrated circuits transistors would be Disintegrated

01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:21.260
before they were even you know tested for operation.

01:55:21.260 --> 01:55:25.460
So it would destroy us up. Yeah, it would have

01:55:25.460 --> 01:55:27.729
stopped us dead we have It'd be great, you can

01:55:27.729 --> 01:55:29.869
turn lighters on and heaters from all over the

01:55:29.869 --> 01:55:32.329
place with no wires, but it would stop modern

01:55:32.329 --> 01:55:34.569
electronics. And if we became dependent on it,

01:55:34.729 --> 01:55:37.229
it would almost be like our dependence on fossil

01:55:37.229 --> 01:55:39.609
fuels, although it's destructive, it's very difficult

01:55:39.609 --> 01:55:42.470
for us to get off the nipple. It would have changed

01:55:42.470 --> 01:55:44.649
the course of how we developed which is so interesting

01:55:44.649 --> 01:55:46.890
when you talk about it a Civilization of the

01:55:46.890 --> 01:55:49.050
star system didn't even start with fossil fuels.

01:55:49.090 --> 01:55:51.590
They had 115 naturally on their planet and they're

01:55:51.590 --> 01:55:53.770
like cool anti -gravity is pretty awesome Well

01:55:53.770 --> 01:55:55.909
the fact that I think it's important that that

01:55:55.909 --> 01:55:59.149
actually happened. Yeah It might have been stopped

01:55:59.149 --> 01:56:05.229
in its tracks for a reason. Whoa and It's just

01:56:05.229 --> 01:56:07.489
it's I think it's incredibly difficult for us

01:56:07.489 --> 01:56:10.369
to imagine Technological progression under another

01:56:10.369 --> 01:56:12.189
timeline other than the one that we've experienced.

01:56:12.329 --> 01:56:17.090
Yeah, that's difficult if we imagine what this

01:56:17.090 --> 01:56:20.310
Alien race must have been like and I mean God

01:56:20.310 --> 01:56:23.970
Just just to be able to see something take like

01:56:23.970 --> 01:56:25.930
I mean Obviously we've seen it in different life

01:56:25.930 --> 01:56:27.750
forms, right? Like we see the life of certain

01:56:27.750 --> 01:56:30.109
beetles in comparison to the life of certain

01:56:30.109 --> 01:56:33.310
fish very very different existence very different

01:56:33.310 --> 01:56:37.250
life cycles octopus yeah octopus I mean we see

01:56:37.250 --> 01:56:39.550
all these different variables in terms of biological

01:56:39.550 --> 01:56:42.069
entities on earth but we don't see it in terms

01:56:42.069 --> 01:56:44.510
of technological innovation as we're the only

01:56:44.510 --> 01:56:47.609
one that's intelligent that can innovate we have

01:56:47.609 --> 01:56:49.529
intelligent creatures but they're in the ocean

01:56:49.529 --> 01:56:51.550
the only other thing that are like us are dolphins

01:56:51.550 --> 01:56:53.890
and orcas and whales and they don't have the

01:56:53.890 --> 01:56:56.210
ability to manipulate their environment and subsequently

01:56:56.210 --> 01:56:58.630
because they don't have the ability to manipulate

01:56:58.630 --> 01:57:01.329
their environment we put them in fish tanks and

01:57:01.329 --> 01:57:03.149
we're like get in the tank do some tricks right

01:57:03.529 --> 01:57:06.430
You know, the only thing he saw in the craft,

01:57:06.590 --> 01:57:08.949
if we're considering Bob's story, the only thing

01:57:08.949 --> 01:57:11.510
that he saw in the craft that he related to,

01:57:11.630 --> 01:57:13.729
that looked like a human could make, was this

01:57:13.729 --> 01:57:15.729
honeycomb hatch, and I always love that because

01:57:15.729 --> 01:57:18.270
you're like, obsessed with this thing that you

01:57:18.270 --> 01:57:20.470
could recognize. You know, the rea-, yeah, I

01:57:20.470 --> 01:57:23.189
only focus on that because it was the one thing

01:57:23.189 --> 01:57:25.670
that I understood how it worked. What was it?

01:57:25.670 --> 01:57:28.289
And it was, it was the access to the level below,

01:57:28.770 --> 01:57:33.930
and it was, um, Well, you know if you take you

01:57:33.930 --> 01:57:36.289
have a six pack of beer and you take out the

01:57:36.289 --> 01:57:39.689
cardboard dividers Set it on the table. You can

01:57:39.689 --> 01:57:43.470
put a lot of pressure on the top But if you push

01:57:43.470 --> 01:57:46.170
it from the sides it collapses flat so it was

01:57:46.170 --> 01:57:48.770
something like that in a honeycomb shape that

01:57:48.770 --> 01:57:52.069
was essentially some sort of sheet metal and

01:57:52.069 --> 01:57:54.729
You could walk on that in the upper layer but

01:57:54.729 --> 01:57:56.890
if you took the corner stuck your finger finger

01:57:56.890 --> 01:58:00.810
in and pushed it collapsed and made a an entryway

01:58:00.890 --> 01:58:03.770
So I thought that was a really unique I'd never

01:58:03.770 --> 01:58:05.810
seen that before and it was the only thing in

01:58:05.810 --> 01:58:07.710
the craft that made absolute sense to me I said

01:58:07.710 --> 01:58:11.170
ah we can make that and all that is is a hatchway

01:58:11.170 --> 01:58:14.329
Was there any discussion about the materials

01:58:14.329 --> 01:58:16.930
that were used to make the craft? I'm sure there

01:58:16.930 --> 01:58:19.449
was but that was a metallurgy division had nothing

01:58:19.449 --> 01:58:22.909
to do with us. So you never got a Not even the

01:58:22.909 --> 01:58:24.489
slightest briefing. I don't even know if it was

01:58:24.489 --> 01:58:27.789
a metal or it was ceramic It's I think it there's

01:58:27.789 --> 01:58:31.760
a fine line between the two Now, one of the things

01:58:31.760 --> 01:58:34.279
that's happened to you that has allowed people

01:58:34.279 --> 01:58:38.100
to discredit you was there's obviously been some

01:58:38.100 --> 01:58:41.859
sort of an effort to erase your past. Some sort

01:58:41.859 --> 01:58:45.640
of an effort to erase your education history,

01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:48.819
your employment history at Los Alamos. In fact,

01:58:48.979 --> 01:58:50.960
the only way your employment history was proven

01:58:50.960 --> 01:58:53.439
at Los Alamos was someone got a list, a directory

01:58:53.439 --> 01:58:56.880
of the employees from the past. Read into it

01:58:56.880 --> 01:58:58.880
and you were on that list So it proved that you

01:58:58.880 --> 01:59:00.159
worked there even though people were trying to

01:59:00.159 --> 01:59:01.600
deny and they were trying to use that as a way

01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:03.539
to discredit You that you never did work at Los

01:59:03.539 --> 01:59:06.779
Alamos. You weren't really a scientist What was

01:59:06.779 --> 01:59:09.119
what was that like to experience? I mean, of

01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:12.060
course we're talking about the 1980s the 1990s

01:59:12.060 --> 01:59:14.840
when you could get away with something like that

01:59:14.840 --> 01:59:19.199
Yeah, I obviously there are a lot less a lot

01:59:19.199 --> 01:59:21.359
less records on computers at that time. It was

01:59:21.359 --> 01:59:25.050
still file cabinets and folders But, yeah, that

01:59:25.050 --> 01:59:26.989
was frightening. That was one of the first things

01:59:26.989 --> 01:59:30.909
I saw. What happened? I think George Knapp was

01:59:30.909 --> 01:59:33.090
the first one that uncovered that. I mean, he

01:59:33.090 --> 01:59:37.050
saw my birth certificate disappear. It disappeared.

01:59:37.569 --> 01:59:39.029
There was no record of you being there. Yeah,

01:59:39.130 --> 01:59:43.270
there was no record of that. His mom tells me

01:59:43.270 --> 01:59:46.550
about that. It was frightening for her. He's

01:59:46.550 --> 01:59:48.430
got a real family. He's a real person. It was

01:59:48.430 --> 01:59:51.489
frightening for her. But the Los Alamos thing

01:59:51.489 --> 01:59:54.890
really surprised me. and that they were so adamant

01:59:54.890 --> 01:59:57.369
that no this guy never worked here don't be ridiculous

01:59:57.369 --> 02:00:00.069
and George went back and forth you know for I

02:00:00.069 --> 02:00:02.109
got the letters on the wall yeah months I mean

02:00:02.109 --> 02:00:04.810
it was ridiculous but fortunately somebody came

02:00:04.810 --> 02:00:08.750
up with a 1982 phone book directory I mean and

02:00:08.750 --> 02:00:13.569
also uh originally I told you uh you know, when

02:00:13.569 --> 02:00:15.930
I worked there, I was on the front page of the

02:00:15.930 --> 02:00:18.649
paper, so they were still able to archive, you

02:00:18.649 --> 02:00:20.510
know, bring that back from the archives, and

02:00:20.510 --> 02:00:22.550
you know, Bob Lazar, a physicist working here

02:00:22.550 --> 02:00:25.229
at Los Alamos, so there was at least something

02:00:25.229 --> 02:00:28.970
there, but somehow George came up with the phone

02:00:28.970 --> 02:00:32.510
directory. And then Bob took George with cameras

02:00:32.510 --> 02:00:35.590
into Los Alamos. Oh yeah, yeah, so we flew out

02:00:35.590 --> 02:00:37.810
there and I said, look, come on in, I'll show

02:00:37.810 --> 02:00:40.250
you where I worked, we'll go in, we'll meet people,

02:00:40.289 --> 02:00:43.289
and George went with me, and And you knew how

02:00:43.289 --> 02:00:44.430
to navigate the place, so you'd obviously been

02:00:44.430 --> 02:00:46.689
there. Oh yeah, and you know, met people, and

02:00:46.689 --> 02:00:48.189
you know, so there's no problem. Los Alamos was

02:00:48.189 --> 02:00:51.590
also the place where they had the machine that

02:00:51.590 --> 02:00:55.109
was able to read the size of your digits. No,

02:00:55.170 --> 02:00:56.770
no, that wasn't Los Alamos. That was S4. That

02:00:56.770 --> 02:01:01.250
was S4. And explain that. So, now this was back

02:01:01.250 --> 02:01:03.630
in the 80s. And this was back in the 80s where,

02:01:03.829 --> 02:01:05.369
when you discussed this, people were like, this

02:01:05.369 --> 02:01:08.449
doesn't even exist. Yeah. Okay. What was it?

02:01:08.449 --> 02:01:11.310
It was a way... You know this is before fingerprint

02:01:11.310 --> 02:01:16.170
scanners and you know and anything of. Anything

02:01:16.170 --> 02:01:18.649
any high resolution scanner at that time so what

02:01:18.649 --> 02:01:21.810
it was was a device that had a little picture

02:01:21.810 --> 02:01:25.010
of a hand on a glass plate with pins in it so

02:01:25.010 --> 02:01:27.229
you could jam your hand in there and there was

02:01:27.229 --> 02:01:29.550
a bright light above it and a sensor underneath

02:01:29.550 --> 02:01:32.270
and when you put your hand in there the light

02:01:32.270 --> 02:01:34.810
would turn on and it would measure the bones

02:01:34.810 --> 02:01:37.550
in your finger because the light shown through

02:01:37.550 --> 02:01:42.600
your bones and. Apparently, the length of the

02:01:42.600 --> 02:01:44.979
bones in your fingers are extremely unique and

02:01:44.979 --> 02:01:48.140
easy to measure. And they use that. When you

02:01:48.140 --> 02:01:49.739
put your hands on there, the light would turn

02:01:49.739 --> 02:01:52.380
on and your badge would pop out. Oh, there it

02:01:52.380 --> 02:01:55.920
is. That's it. And I tried to describe this to

02:01:55.920 --> 02:01:58.300
people, and they said, that is the most ridiculous

02:01:58.300 --> 02:02:02.619
thing we've ever heard. And I said, hey, my badge

02:02:02.619 --> 02:02:04.600
came out of that thing. I put my hand on it.

02:02:04.680 --> 02:02:06.760
Badge popped out and that's how I could open

02:02:06.760 --> 02:02:10.210
the doors and get into as for and. You know,

02:02:10.390 --> 02:02:12.029
and everybody discredited that. They said it

02:02:12.029 --> 02:02:14.189
was bullshit. It was science fiction. And Jeremy,

02:02:14.189 --> 02:02:17.550
you found this. I found it through a good friend

02:02:17.550 --> 02:02:19.670
of mine named Tyler Rogoway. And he had some

02:02:19.670 --> 02:02:22.670
good sources inside of Area 52 where they also

02:02:22.670 --> 02:02:25.390
used these for the stealth program right around

02:02:25.390 --> 02:02:27.510
that time. So now I've got all these people that

02:02:27.510 --> 02:02:30.489
worked within who, you know, said only if you're

02:02:30.489 --> 02:02:32.850
in certain programs would we use this technology.

02:02:32.909 --> 02:02:34.229
It was kind of shit actually. They didn't keep

02:02:34.229 --> 02:02:36.329
it for very long. Beginning of biometrics. So

02:02:36.329 --> 02:02:38.590
I was able to reveal it in my film. I kept my

02:02:38.590 --> 02:02:41.439
mouth shut. Until I showed it to Bob, you know

02:02:41.439 --> 02:02:43.439
in the movie is the first time he saw it was

02:02:43.439 --> 02:02:45.260
how you see it in the documentary That's his

02:02:45.260 --> 02:02:46.920
genuine reaction getting goosebumps. That was

02:02:46.920 --> 02:02:48.880
a great idea that the way you did it Thank you,

02:02:48.899 --> 02:02:50.439
man, because you know what? Guess what? I'm actually

02:02:50.439 --> 02:02:52.479
trying to see if he's telling the truth. That's

02:02:52.479 --> 02:02:54.699
how I started You know that I started so it was

02:02:54.699 --> 02:02:56.460
really cool to see that and that you get to see

02:02:56.460 --> 02:02:59.939
it his actual reaction Has that been verified

02:02:59.939 --> 02:03:03.479
by other people? Yeah, so yeah, so to me it has

02:03:03.479 --> 02:03:06.250
personally I get emails every day and people

02:03:06.250 --> 02:03:08.430
are telling me where these are used and how they're

02:03:08.430 --> 02:03:10.149
used in the semi photos. I got a lot of photos

02:03:10.149 --> 02:03:12.170
of identity mats now. Well, how they were used,

02:03:12.170 --> 02:03:14.250
right? They're not how they were used. But yeah,

02:03:14.329 --> 02:03:17.569
but I don't the most recent one was way more

02:03:17.569 --> 02:03:19.029
recent than I thought in another country. But

02:03:19.029 --> 02:03:22.350
yeah, that technology was used. So what's so

02:03:22.350 --> 02:03:27.619
funny is that this technology Even in the area

02:03:27.619 --> 02:03:29.979
52 where they'd use them for Tonopah one of the

02:03:29.979 --> 02:03:32.699
guys who will go on camera when he will do an

02:03:32.699 --> 02:03:34.979
interview with me He was a technician for one

02:03:34.979 --> 02:03:37.300
of these and and he hated them because they were

02:03:37.300 --> 02:03:40.000
really bad They always broke down and never and

02:03:40.000 --> 02:03:42.079
he was a technician for him now He won't tell

02:03:42.079 --> 02:03:44.880
me where if he worked at area 52, so it's probably

02:03:44.880 --> 02:03:48.220
Tonopah It's very separated even on base. But

02:03:48.220 --> 02:03:53.260
yeah, so There was that yeah, there is your education

02:03:53.260 --> 02:03:55.960
record That was also like what happened with

02:03:55.960 --> 02:04:00.000
that? Well, that disappeared also. You know,

02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:05.420
that I've never gone anywhere for education.

02:04:06.859 --> 02:04:09.079
I've never attended any classes at Caltech. I

02:04:09.079 --> 02:04:12.779
never attended anything at MIT. You did attend

02:04:12.779 --> 02:04:14.979
classes in those places. I did attend classes

02:04:14.979 --> 02:04:16.880
in those places. Do you know anybody that you

02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:20.029
went to school with? Yes, I do. And have they

02:04:20.029 --> 02:04:21.729
verified that they went to school with you? Well,

02:04:21.750 --> 02:04:25.229
I gave Jeremy some names. But yeah, the reason

02:04:25.229 --> 02:04:28.930
I don't say these names publicly is because every

02:04:28.930 --> 02:04:32.170
single time I mention a name, somebody gets in

02:04:32.170 --> 02:04:34.090
trouble. They don't want to be. Of course. Yeah.

02:04:34.390 --> 02:04:38.250
Yeah, of course. But what is that experience

02:04:38.250 --> 02:04:41.630
like seeing your birth certificate erased, seeing

02:04:41.630 --> 02:04:43.609
your employment history? Well, it's frightening.

02:04:43.920 --> 02:04:46.520
It's absolutely frightening. It's also the fuel

02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:49.300
that the debunkers use, the so -called air -quote

02:04:49.300 --> 02:04:52.079
skeptics. I don't like the term skeptics. I'm

02:04:52.079 --> 02:04:53.560
going to say this publicly because I really have

02:04:53.560 --> 02:04:55.800
only said this privately. I think it's a sloppy,

02:04:56.039 --> 02:04:59.619
lazy way to look at things, to just be a skeptic.

02:04:59.720 --> 02:05:01.779
Look, at this point... I want people to be objective.

02:05:02.520 --> 02:05:05.079
And I think there's a lot of things you should

02:05:05.079 --> 02:05:08.880
be skeptical of. I think you should look at things

02:05:08.880 --> 02:05:13.170
and look at things... From a hardline science

02:05:13.170 --> 02:05:15.869
perspective you should be objective But the idea

02:05:15.869 --> 02:05:17.930
of skeptics the problem with that is you're always

02:05:17.930 --> 02:05:20.029
looking for things to be bullshit Yeah, and I

02:05:20.029 --> 02:05:22.149
think that's dangerous because I think some things

02:05:22.149 --> 02:05:24.270
aren't bullshit confirmation bias on the other

02:05:24.270 --> 02:05:25.989
end You're just deciding to take a square thing

02:05:25.989 --> 02:05:27.789
and put it in a round hole no matter what and

02:05:27.789 --> 02:05:30.810
I find a lot of them to be lazy A lot of them

02:05:30.810 --> 02:05:33.310
to be lazy thinkers sure because they're always

02:05:33.310 --> 02:05:36.149
putting it into that box instead of going hmm

02:05:36.359 --> 02:05:38.800
Instead of just separating their ego, they're

02:05:38.800 --> 02:05:41.220
trying they're playing a game and the game is

02:05:41.220 --> 02:05:43.399
calling bullshit I want to call bullshit and

02:05:43.399 --> 02:05:45.659
I'm gonna line up all these reasons why it's

02:05:45.659 --> 02:05:47.659
bullshit and I'm gonna ignore anything that might

02:05:47.659 --> 02:05:50.060
be Contrary to that definition. Yeah, that does

02:05:50.060 --> 02:05:52.260
every time I'm thinking I'm gonna catch him in

02:05:52.260 --> 02:05:54.539
something, you know all along this process I

02:05:54.539 --> 02:05:56.619
found dr. Crangle. He came forward and said I

02:05:56.619 --> 02:05:58.680
was in security briefings with Bob Lazar the

02:05:58.680 --> 02:06:00.779
physicist at Los Alamos He went on the record

02:06:00.779 --> 02:06:03.260
with me now the other people I talked with why

02:06:03.260 --> 02:06:05.140
won't they go on the record with me? Because

02:06:05.140 --> 02:06:08.069
they're still working there So that that's the

02:06:08.069 --> 02:06:09.470
difference right? What is that? What can the

02:06:09.470 --> 02:06:11.470
public have right? Even if they're not working

02:06:11.470 --> 02:06:13.149
there, you know, they want to live their lives

02:06:13.149 --> 02:06:15.289
What I mean, obviously people have seen what's

02:06:15.289 --> 02:06:18.949
happened to you Mike Thigpen After 30 years.

02:06:19.010 --> 02:06:21.869
Yeah, really if you look at all the information

02:06:21.869 --> 02:06:26.550
on You know concerning my accounts. That's that's

02:06:26.550 --> 02:06:30.300
verifiable. It can't Possibly be a bullshit story

02:06:30.300 --> 02:06:33.159
anymore. It's really way past that point Yeah,

02:06:33.380 --> 02:06:36.300
I mean that was my big pen is I mean how could

02:06:36.300 --> 02:06:41.640
I was possibly know? So Mike Thigpen was the

02:06:41.640 --> 02:06:44.460
guy that did the security clearances to go to

02:06:44.460 --> 02:06:46.340
the bit one of the guys that was a guy that you

02:06:46.340 --> 02:06:49.739
Worked with he said he did Right and and George

02:06:49.739 --> 02:06:51.840
Knapp, you know George didn't believe him George

02:06:51.840 --> 02:06:54.180
put him through four polygraph tests, right?

02:06:54.359 --> 02:06:57.560
He tried to see man. This is a big risk. It sounds

02:06:57.560 --> 02:06:59.359
interesting But let's see if he's telling the

02:06:59.359 --> 02:07:02.199
truth. One of the things was Bob said there's

02:07:02.199 --> 02:07:04.100
a guy named Mike Thigpen He did security clearances

02:07:04.100 --> 02:07:06.659
for the base and that's a weird name. It's a

02:07:06.659 --> 02:07:10.979
very specific For 30 years George found this

02:07:10.979 --> 02:07:12.779
guy in this weird department that he didn't even

02:07:12.779 --> 02:07:14.899
know it was Mike Thigpen The guy wouldn't talk

02:07:14.899 --> 02:07:16.520
to me, ghosted him. Totally ghosted him for 30

02:07:16.520 --> 02:07:19.500
years. Used Facebook and Google image match through

02:07:19.500 --> 02:07:22.220
his children. I was able to find him after 30

02:07:22.220 --> 02:07:24.359
years. And I talked to him three times on the

02:07:24.359 --> 02:07:26.880
phone. He lives on the East Coast. He almost

02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:29.279
went on camera with me. Confirmed that he did

02:07:29.279 --> 02:07:32.140
security clearances for the base in 1989. Confirmed

02:07:32.140 --> 02:07:35.140
he remembers Bob Lazar. And what you don't know

02:07:35.140 --> 02:07:37.460
is there's a handwritten note that a friend of

02:07:37.460 --> 02:07:40.529
yours has from Mike. I know, I'm like, give it

02:07:40.529 --> 02:07:42.789
to you later, but that is real, that is actual.

02:07:42.989 --> 02:07:45.250
A handwritten note that says what? This is new

02:07:45.250 --> 02:07:52.829
to me. When they do security clearances, they

02:07:52.829 --> 02:07:54.189
go through all your friends and family. And they

02:07:54.189 --> 02:07:55.689
go to your friends and family, yeah. So this

02:07:55.689 --> 02:07:59.250
is to Bob, and I had people come to me for a

02:07:59.250 --> 02:08:00.949
friend of mine that's serving, and they're doing

02:08:00.949 --> 02:08:02.449
a security clearance for him, and even though

02:08:02.449 --> 02:08:04.970
I'm like... the UFO guy, they did, you know,

02:08:05.029 --> 02:08:07.149
the f -bag, come and visit my house and make

02:08:07.149 --> 02:08:09.250
sure that they talk about my friend and they

02:08:09.250 --> 02:08:11.810
lift a little card. And when my wife told him

02:08:11.810 --> 02:08:13.130
to get away, because she didn't know who they

02:08:13.130 --> 02:08:15.170
were, they left a little card. It's super cute

02:08:15.170 --> 02:08:17.630
now. Back then it was a handwritten note and

02:08:17.630 --> 02:08:19.729
his friend has it for him that you haven't seen

02:08:19.729 --> 02:08:24.090
in two decades. So if you're listening... How

02:08:24.090 --> 02:08:25.609
come you're telling me this now? I don't know

02:08:25.609 --> 02:08:26.770
why I'm telling this to you. What is this card?

02:08:27.390 --> 02:08:29.430
It's just a little handwritten note with Mike

02:08:29.430 --> 02:08:32.590
Thigpen's signature. A card like a postcard.

02:08:32.760 --> 02:08:35.420
Like a piece of paper that he left on the door

02:08:35.420 --> 02:08:37.600
saying when Bob gets back or whatever it says

02:08:37.600 --> 02:08:39.960
on it So it's just another little funny thing.

02:08:39.960 --> 02:08:42.039
I found the guy. He does the security clearances

02:08:42.039 --> 02:08:44.060
He admitted to me he did it and he admitted to

02:08:44.060 --> 02:08:46.060
me He was dodging George Knapp because when George

02:08:46.060 --> 02:08:48.420
said his name on the rate on the on the news

02:08:48.420 --> 02:08:51.079
He dropped his fork into his steak earned his

02:08:51.079 --> 02:08:53.079
potatoes or whatever and he's looking at his

02:08:53.079 --> 02:08:55.199
wife He was in trouble his name is never supposed

02:08:55.199 --> 02:08:57.100
to be out there like it's just a security clearance

02:08:57.100 --> 02:08:59.960
guy But you don't want national attention associated

02:08:59.960 --> 02:09:02.600
with anything Bob has to say But anyway this

02:09:02.600 --> 02:09:05.720
unique name Bob said for 30 years and the guy

02:09:05.720 --> 02:09:07.920
ghosted George Knapp George could prove he existed

02:09:07.920 --> 02:09:10.159
He actually talked to me man. He talked to me

02:09:10.159 --> 02:09:12.659
three times. He almost went on camera with me

02:09:12.659 --> 02:09:14.859
It's just crazy. What what do you what happens

02:09:14.859 --> 02:09:17.000
after 30 years? You just get more info Well,

02:09:17.000 --> 02:09:21.220
that's one of the reasons why when you and me

02:09:21.220 --> 02:09:23.939
and Jeremy and George Knapp had that conversation

02:09:23.939 --> 02:09:27.720
on the phone Yeah, I said I think What we can

02:09:27.720 --> 02:09:32.579
do with this podcast is important I really do.

02:09:32.880 --> 02:09:35.720
I think it's important for people to hear this

02:09:35.720 --> 02:09:42.100
from you in a very clear, just very concise way.

02:09:43.260 --> 02:09:46.720
And if you examine all the information that you've

02:09:46.720 --> 02:09:49.460
said today, if you look at all the things that

02:09:49.460 --> 02:09:51.760
the detractors have said, if you look at all

02:09:51.760 --> 02:09:54.560
of the new recent evidence that's coming out

02:09:54.560 --> 02:09:58.220
and all these really high -level people in the

02:09:58.220 --> 02:10:00.039
military and the government that are discussing

02:10:00.039 --> 02:10:05.819
this, it gives you far more credibility. than

02:10:05.819 --> 02:10:09.399
you would have had in the 1980s when this came

02:10:09.399 --> 02:10:12.180
out. Fuck yes, you can't ignore his story just

02:10:12.180 --> 02:10:14.180
because you don't like it anymore. That's why

02:10:14.180 --> 02:10:15.659
I thought it was important that you come out

02:10:15.659 --> 02:10:18.699
and refresh the world's memory and let people

02:10:18.699 --> 02:10:20.819
know. And like I said, I've been, I mean, I don't

02:10:20.819 --> 02:10:22.500
wanna say I'm a fan of yours, but I guess I'm

02:10:22.500 --> 02:10:24.680
a fan of yours. As a human being, I'm a fan of

02:10:24.680 --> 02:10:27.100
yours. But I've been following you for decades.

02:10:27.199 --> 02:10:29.300
I've been following the story for decades. No

02:10:29.300 --> 02:10:31.899
kidding. I have VHS tapes at home. Bob, like

02:10:31.899 --> 02:10:35.170
a lot of the world has? Yeah. It's crazy. anybody

02:10:35.170 --> 02:10:39.869
that has any sort of vested interest or even

02:10:39.869 --> 02:10:44.689
just a fascination with UFOs has followed your

02:10:44.689 --> 02:10:48.270
story because there's no one else. There's no

02:10:48.270 --> 02:10:49.989
one else that comes forward. There's some guy

02:10:49.989 --> 02:10:51.590
who said I worked underground with the aliens

02:10:51.590 --> 02:10:53.210
They shot my hand off like there's a bunch of

02:10:53.210 --> 02:10:55.729
like wacky dudes They're underground. There's

02:10:55.729 --> 02:10:57.390
bases. They're shooting lasers through the earth's

02:10:57.390 --> 02:10:59.569
crust and they move them at light speed There's

02:10:59.569 --> 02:11:01.909
a lot of those guys. They seem schizophrenic.

02:11:01.930 --> 02:11:04.229
They seem crazy. They might even be disinformation

02:11:04.229 --> 02:11:06.789
agents They might be people that are designed

02:11:06.789 --> 02:11:09.670
to muddy the waters, which for sure has happened

02:11:09.670 --> 02:11:11.949
People are coming forward though. Now it's amazing

02:11:11.949 --> 02:11:13.869
by doing this what you're doing You're providing

02:11:13.869 --> 02:11:15.970
an opportunity just for Bob to tell a story,

02:11:16.010 --> 02:11:18.560
you know, believe it or not he can tell his story.

02:11:18.939 --> 02:11:21.600
It's amazing because more people will come forward

02:11:21.600 --> 02:11:25.079
now that are involved with these projects. They'll

02:11:25.079 --> 02:11:27.100
come forward to you, to me, they're coming forward.

02:11:27.399 --> 02:11:28.880
And so what you've done here is provide that

02:11:28.880 --> 02:11:31.279
opportunity if they need it. And it's amazing.

02:11:31.399 --> 02:11:33.520
I just want to say, Bob. Just don't come forward

02:11:33.520 --> 02:11:36.439
to me. No, don't come forward to Bob. Why were

02:11:36.439 --> 02:11:40.079
you freaking nauseous at the beginning of this?

02:11:40.500 --> 02:11:43.479
Like so. Upset why was your why'd you have a

02:11:43.479 --> 02:11:45.260
migraine cuz that started off so hard my god

02:11:45.260 --> 02:11:46.640
I was sitting here like did this why are you

02:11:46.640 --> 02:11:49.600
asking him why because obvious? Anxiety the guy's

02:11:49.600 --> 02:11:51.739
gone to 30 fucking years of being persecuted.

02:11:51.739 --> 02:11:53.840
They raised his birth certificate I just want

02:11:53.840 --> 02:11:55.939
to hear hear from I want to hear him say I want

02:11:55.939 --> 02:11:58.180
them why do I have to say that you don't just

02:11:58.180 --> 02:12:03.399
get it I step out. Okay, settle down Yeah, I

02:12:03.399 --> 02:12:05.340
well I get it you were you were it was hard for

02:12:05.340 --> 02:12:06.979
you to get him here You know and I appreciate

02:12:06.979 --> 02:12:09.680
us. Yeah you Well, you did a lot more than me.

02:12:09.680 --> 02:12:11.619
What really annoys me are the people that are

02:12:11.619 --> 02:12:13.779
saying, you know, you guys just came up with

02:12:13.779 --> 02:12:15.600
the story to make a bunch of money or get a bunch

02:12:15.600 --> 02:12:17.659
of, you know, attention. That's a good point,

02:12:17.920 --> 02:12:20.180
so please explain that. First of all, I don't

02:12:20.180 --> 02:12:22.560
get any money out of this at all, and I didn't

02:12:22.560 --> 02:12:25.199
even let you guys buy plane tickets for me to

02:12:25.199 --> 02:12:28.199
come out here or anything. I mean, any time,

02:12:28.199 --> 02:12:32.520
like when Jeremy, uh, pre - Previewed I guess

02:12:32.520 --> 02:12:35.819
the movie up in Michigan. I mean they it brought

02:12:35.819 --> 02:12:37.899
in like a couple thousand dollars I made sure

02:12:37.899 --> 02:12:40.880
that two thousand dollars went to science programs

02:12:40.880 --> 02:12:43.020
at the local high schools there. I don't dirty

02:12:43.020 --> 02:12:45.119
money I don't want to touch. I don't take any

02:12:45.119 --> 02:12:47.260
money from this stuff and as far as attention

02:12:47.260 --> 02:12:52.340
I hate fucking attention. I don't like being

02:12:52.340 --> 02:12:54.680
on shows. I just want to kind of hide in the

02:12:54.680 --> 02:12:57.119
corner and do my own thing. So that's I got enough

02:12:57.119 --> 02:13:00.119
hugs when I was a kid. Okay, I don't need any

02:13:00.119 --> 02:13:04.359
attention. So now that if you if you think somehow

02:13:04.359 --> 02:13:06.460
we came up with this thing, then you got to tell

02:13:06.460 --> 02:13:09.359
me why we did it. Well, you've done a great job

02:13:09.359 --> 02:13:12.039
of making sure you have your bases covered in

02:13:12.039 --> 02:13:13.819
that regard that you haven't profited off of

02:13:13.819 --> 02:13:15.319
this and like you said that you have donated

02:13:15.319 --> 02:13:17.699
whatever money that came your way to science

02:13:17.699 --> 02:13:21.359
programs. It's I mean, It doesn't make any sense

02:13:21.359 --> 02:13:25.819
any other way. I mean, what I've gotten out of

02:13:25.819 --> 02:13:27.920
here is what I thought I was going to get out

02:13:27.920 --> 02:13:29.579
of here when I watched the documentary, that

02:13:29.579 --> 02:13:32.680
what you're saying makes sense. It doesn't make

02:13:32.680 --> 02:13:35.079
sense that it's bullshit. That happened exactly

02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:39.439
like I said it did, Joe. I believe you. In closing,

02:13:39.859 --> 02:13:43.399
is there anything else you'd like to say? No,

02:13:43.399 --> 02:13:45.659
I can't think of anything other than really don't

02:13:45.659 --> 02:13:51.199
come and try to visit me. Well, I know that you

02:13:51.199 --> 02:13:54.739
have paid a huge personal cost to get this information

02:13:54.739 --> 02:13:57.140
out and I mean Maybe you didn't understand what

02:13:57.140 --> 02:13:59.100
that cost would have been when you first initially

02:13:59.100 --> 02:14:02.220
came forward with a story But over the past 30

02:14:02.220 --> 02:14:04.920
years, it's been immense. It's been great And

02:14:04.920 --> 02:14:07.319
I just want to thank you for that and thank you

02:14:07.319 --> 02:14:09.399
for all these people that would not have gotten

02:14:09.399 --> 02:14:11.600
this information It would not have really had

02:14:11.600 --> 02:14:14.659
this story any other way. No, thanks Joe. Thank

02:14:14.659 --> 02:14:17.390
you And thank you, Jeremy. And one more time,

02:14:17.449 --> 02:14:19.310
the documentary is available on Netflix right

02:14:19.310 --> 02:14:22.750
now. Yeah, it's called Bob Lazar, Area 51, and

02:14:22.750 --> 02:14:25.069
Flying Saucers. All right. That's it, folks.

02:14:25.409 --> 02:14:25.850
Good night.