0:00 This is Tom Phillips, and this surveillance footage is one of the few rare glimpses of him breaking into a 0:06 store with one of his missing children right beside him. Now, what began as a seemingly harmless family getaway would 0:13 spiral into something far more mysterious, including four years of lies, secrecy, survival, and ultimately 0:22 death. All of which was sparked by basically nothing at all. So, what 0:28 really happened across this long and grueling timeline? How did friends and family cope with the sudden 0:34 disappearance of three innocent children? And how did Tom manage to keep them hidden for so many years? 0:42 Welcome, or welcome back to Coffee House Crime, folks. My name is Adrian, and today we're traveling to New Zealand to 0:48 look at the infamous case of the Maropa children. Now, this one is a rather unique story about a man who vanished 0:54 into the wilderness not once but twice, taking all three of his children with him. What followed was one of the 1:01 country's longest and most expensive manhunts in modern-day history, and involved strange sightings, breakins, 1:07 bush talk, and even a violent shootout. All right, you're going to need a strong coffee for this one today, folks. So, 1:14 please get comfortable, subscribe if you haven't yet, and let's caffeinate while we investigate. This is the case of the 1:21 Marakopa children. 1:32 Kia order folks and welcome to New Zealand. Today we're traveling to the western coast of its northern island and 1:39 to a place called Maro Copa. By the way, I have to say that I absolutely love the 1:44 names and words of the Maui. For example, you've got Mangoaki to the south, Taharoa to the north, and on the 1:52 other side of the island, you've got Tao Fakatangi Hango Tamatia Turipu, Kakapiki 1:58 Moanga, Horonopai, Fenoakatan Tahu. Anyway, back to Marakopa. It's a tiny 2:05 windswept settlement which is tucked away on New Zealand's rugged west coast. And with its wild black sand beaches, 2:12 rolling farmlands, and the Maropa Falls nearby, it's a place where nature rules, 2:17 and people are very few and far between. In fact, the sheep outnumber the people 2:22 here by such a margin that the local council is considering letting the sheep vote. Of course, on the condition that 2:29 they stop eating all of the ballot papers in the meantime. Life here moves slowly with farming, fishing, and the 2:36 occasional tourist making up most of the activity. In a way, its isolation kind 2:41 of gives it an almost timeless quality. However, as sweet as that remoteness sounds, it does indeed work both ways. 2:49 And it's here that we meet the Phillips family. Now, Tom Phillips was a farm-raised father from Mocopar. Fewer 2:57 than a hundred people live here. And so the Philips family had farmed that rugged land for several generations. At 3:03 the time, Tom was living with his parents on their farm alongside his three children. That being Jada, 8, 3:10 Maverick, 7, and Ember, five. Unfortunately, his marriage with his wife, Catherine, also known as Cat, had 3:17 long since broken down, meaning that the children had to split their time between their mother and their father's 3:23 properties. It wasn't too bad though because Cat lived in the nearby town of Ottohunga, meaning that the kids could 3:30 go back and forth quite regularly, but often would stay with their father on the farm. They were homeschooled, too, 3:36 which meant that they were in relatively heavy isolation. Now, Tom was not your typical modern man. You see, he didn't 3:43 have social media, rarely used his bank cards or bank accounts at all for that matter, and would spend most of his free 3:50 time hunting, camping, or homeschooling his children. Now, to be honest, that doesn't sound like a bad life at all. To 3:56 many people, he seemed to be independent, self-sufficient, and liked to live life on his own terms. But on 4:02 the other side, some people saw him as quite reclusive and stuck in his own ways. From what I was able to find out 4:08 about him online, he was a little bit paranoid towards the police and other people in society, but otherwise was 4:14 just your average bloke. He didn't seem to be like infatuated with any sort of mad conspiracy theories or anything 4:21 either. He just basically liked to live independently. However, behind that quiet country lifestyle lay a very 4:27 bitter dispute between Tom and his ex-wife Cat. You see, technically Tom 4:33 was losing custody over the children. And despite still having them at the time, he was becoming increasingly 4:38 resentful towards his ex-wife. Approaching 2021, the arguments between the two became quite explosive, and they 4:46 never saw eye to eye. And apparently, according to Cat, Tom wanted to teach 4:51 her a lesson. In fact, she would even go to court and tell them that apparently Tom didn't actually care about his 4:57 children at all and merely saw them as pawns in his game against her. Tom and Cat continued to argue throughout the 5:03 next few weeks. And as things slowly escalated, so did the insults and threats towards one another. Things 5:09 really were becoming uncomfortable for everyone involved. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Tom and the kids 5:16 suddenly vanished. It started innocently enough. On 5:22 September the 11th of 2021, Tom Phillips and his kids all decided to go camping. 5:27 Now, they were all last seen at the family farm in Marakopa. However, by nightfall, they were gone. At first, 5:34 nobody panicked because they all said they were going camping after all. However, two days later, Tom's Toyota 5:41 Hilux was found abandoned a few miles away on Kiri Beach. When officers 5:46 arrived, they found the car's keys tucked under the mat and all of the children's car seats still attached in 5:53 the back. To the police, this looked extremely concerning. Not only was a man 5:58 and his three children missing, but their car was now abandoned near busy tides. Full of worry, a massive search 6:05 operation followed. And the authorities did not hold back. They used helicopters, jet skis, drones, and 6:12 boats. And the locals would even enforce a rahoui in the area, which basically means a ban on all fishing just in case 6:20 the ocean held any clues or answers. For 18 gruelling long days, absolutely 6:26 nothing showed up. Not a shoe, not a campfire, and not a single trace of the 6:31 family. Of course, Catherine, being the mother of the family, was beyond distressed, and most people assumed the 6:38 absolute worst that Tom and the kids had been swallowed by the ocean. But then on 6:44 September the 30th, something miraculous happened. Tom and the kids just simply 6:49 walked back into his parents' home. And apparently, they acted completely oblivious to all that was going on, too. 6:55 Just a, "Hey, how do you do? What's for dinner?" Now, thankfully, all four of them were happy and healthy. And 7:01 according to their grandmother, the kids were as bouncy as ever. And when asked what the bloody hell happened, Tom 7:07 replied with, "We went camping just as I told you." Apparently, he just needed to clear his head and didn't understand 7:13 what all the fuss was about. The police, however, were not happy at all because this search operation had cost them 7:19 literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. And Tom, well, he was charged 7:24 with wasting police time. His family were absolutely furious, too, especially Cat. The thing is, most of them forgave 7:32 him over time, simply seeing him as this stressed out father who had made a reckless decision. Despite the leniency 7:38 found in some people, Cat herself wasn't fooled. Because to her, this wasn't just a camping trip. It was a test run. Quite 7:46 literally a rehearsal. And as things would turn out, she was right, too. 7:54 Not even 3 months later, Tom and the kids would vanish yet again. On December the 9th of 2021, just before Christmas, 8:01 he disappeared from the family farm, taking Jada, Maverick, and Ember with him. However, this time there was no 8:08 truck abandoned on a beach, and no frantic search teams combing the area either. In fact, the police didn't even 8:15 launch a search party. Actually, old grudges aside, it turns out that Tom had told his mother and father that he was 8:22 going bush for a few days. And at least at that moment in time, he still 8:27 technically had shared access to the children. Now, it is true that he was soon going to lose custody after a long 8:34 and arduous battle with Cat. And although this did seem as very suspicious, the authorities assumed that 8:41 he would be back in a few days. But, uh, spoiler alert, he wasn't. When Tom 8:47 skipped his court date over the wasted search party costs on January the 12th, the authorities patience finally ran 8:54 out. They immediately issued a warrant. And when that was ignored, they knew that something was up, launching their 9:01 second search operation for Tom. The authorities started small and soon enough they found his youth abandoned on 9:08 Mangatoa Road. Searching the vehicle provided no clues, and a wider search of 9:14 the area around it would unfortunately turn up nothing either. It appeared that Tom and his children had vanished into 9:20 the wilderness yet again. And this time, there was no telling on how long this would be for. The wilderness around 9:28 Madakulpa isn't only remote, but it quite literally swallows people whole. 9:33 The dense bushland stretches for miles, thick with ferns, tangled undergrowth, and gullies so deep that they seem to 9:40 pull the light out of the air. Simply stepping off of the narrow gravel roads, and you're basically in a world where 9:47 sound doesn't carry and footprints can vanish within hours. If that isn't 9:52 enough already, stepping along the coastline, you will find black sand beaches that are battered by relentless 9:58 surf and caves that cut deep into the cliff line. Put quite bluntly, it is a 10:03 brutal place to survive. However, for someone like Tom, who is experienced in 10:08 both hunting and camping, survival here isn't that far-fetched. The land 10:13 provides food, water, and endless cover. And being in rural King Country, where 10:19 communities are both tight-knit and waryries of outsiders and law enforcement, it is no surprise that he 10:25 very likely had backup. So, for the next year and a bit, sightings were basically 10:31 non-existent, except for one time, and no surprise, that was with his very own 10:36 family. It was in February of 2022, and while under the cover of darkness, that 10:41 Tom actually crept back to his family home for an hour. He had basically gone to the property to tell them that he and 10:47 the children were doing fine. But, of course, they would only report this to the police once he disappeared yet 10:53 again. But where they were staying or how or why or how long for, he never actually said. You see, he trusted his 11:00 parents, but of course wanted to be discreet just in case. And yet again, 11:05 this would be the last confirmed sighting for the next 12 months. As time dragged on, speculation swelled because 11:13 quite obviously, many people began to wonder, how could a man and three children survive in the wilderness for 11:19 so long? Quite naturally, some people began to fear the worst while others heard down the grapevine that apparently 11:26 Tom was receiving support from locals. Which unfortunately isn't a surprise either because in a rural community like 11:33 King Country, people do often close ranks. And as it turns out, Tom had a 11:38 whole league of sympathizers. While all of this was going on, Kat and 11:45 her own family grew frantic. By mid 2022, that being a few months after 11:50 their disappearance, Cat made the decision to launch petitions and even TV appeals in an attempt to revive 11:56 interest. In the background, and probably due to their failure to find him, police began to float their own 12:03 theories, too. Hypothesizing that perhaps Tom had maybe changed identities or even left the region with his 12:10 children. And with no official reward offered, very likely because Tom had already cost the police enough money, it 12:17 was basically up to Cat and her family to raise that money instead. However, as the months passed by, Tom and his 12:23 children became more and more of a distant memory. For more than a year after February 2022, they basically 12:31 remained as phantoms without any trace whatsoever. However, by the year 2023, 12:36 the pressures of raising three children through storms and winters was becoming more and more challenging. And it turns 12:42 out that the only way for Tom and his children to survive was for them to lean into crime instead. And I have to say, 12:49 it was in the most comical of ways. The first major incident happened in May of 12:54 2023 and in the quiet town of Teuiti. On May the 16th, two masked individuals 13:00 stormed into an A&Z bank with one of them being armed with a shotgun. No surprise, but they were there for the 13:07 money, and they meant business, too, because after firing a warning shot, it unfortunately injured an innocent 13:13 bystander nearby. Moments later, the pair then escaped on a stolen motorbike with a large bag of cash. And apparently 13:21 they were having a few issues too because some of the citizens who were watching noticed them fumble with the 13:26 bag before then accidentally dropping a whole bunch of that cash on the street. Basically, it seemed like an almost 13:33 cinematic heist for such a small town. And I think it was probably in that moment that Tom realized he was more of 13:40 a bear grills kind of person and not so much Bonnie and Clyde. During the police investigation, they realized that one of 13:47 the robbers was indeed Tom Phillips, and the other, well, it turns out that it actually was one of his own children, 13:54 likely being 9-year-old Maverick. It would also reveal something far more disturbing, that Tom was no longer just 14:00 a desperate father hiding from the authorities, but he was also armed and willing to involve his own children in 14:07 violent crime. Now, although the authorities didn't publicly link Tom to the Tuiti heist for quite a while, they 14:14 did in fact know it was him. And then only a few months later in August of 2023, a flurry of sightings were 14:21 reported to the police. Not of Tom Skullking in the bushes, but in Bunnings 14:26 of all places. Now, for all of you not familiar with Australia's and New Zealand's hardware stores, Bunnings is 14:33 basically our one dominant store here. From dog toys right the way through to power drills. They sell everything. And 14:40 that even includes selling sausage sizzles every single Sunday, which by the way are absolutely delicious. 14:47 Anyway, police received multiple phone calls of a bearded man with three children in a Bunning store in Hamilton, 14:53 which can be found more than 60 mi away from Maricopa. Security cameras caught 14:58 him in disguise wearing a beanie, glasses, and a surgical mask. And although sure it was cover attire at the 15:05 time, keen eyes would still recognize the man beneath. They realized that Tom was driving a stolen Hilux suit. And 15:12 receipts showed his shopping list, including headlamps, gum boots, buckets, and even vegetable seedlings. Though, it 15:20 looks like he probably gave that Bunning sausage sizzle a miss. Tragically, through this list, it became quite 15:26 obvious that Tom was actually building an off-grid camp with a garden included. It was around 2 days later that police 15:33 recovered the abandoned ute near Tianga. The message was clear, however. Tom and 15:38 the children were still close, still moving, and still stealing to survive. It was only after the Bunning sightings 15:45 that officers decided to go public with all of the information they had. They released the surveillance images of a 15:51 tall man pushing a cart around the warehouse and urged anyone who spotted him to call 111. What followed was 15:59 dozens of tips. In fact, in September alone, there were more than 14 reported 16:04 sightings of him. But unfortunately, none of these tips could be verified, and the group always managed to slip 16:11 away. The Wire Catau was Tom's backyard, and it looked like he knew every single 16:16 escape route possible. By early September, the authorities formally charged him with aggravated robbery, 16:22 aggravated wounding, and unlawful possession of a firearm. Tom was now officially a wanted armed criminal. And 16:29 with a rifle slung across his shoulder over most sightings, it was clear that the danger was obvious. A couple of 16:36 months later, in November of 2023, a surveillance camera caught two individuals breaking their way in to a 16:43 supretet in Po. Detectives would later confirm that Tom had stolen the bike from a farm earlier that night before 16:50 then trying to steal money and food from the store at 10 minutes 2 in the morning. The situation would slow down 16:57 for a while after that until June of 2024 when police announced an $80,000 17:02 reward for any information that would lead to the return of Cat's children. And notably, they said nothing about 17:09 Tom's arrest there, just the return of her children. The other thing to note here that I find quite interesting is 17:14 that this reward came with immunity, too. In other words, the police were trying to say, "If you're helping Tom, 17:21 just switch sides and not only will we reward you, but we won't charge you either." So, it was no surprise that Tom 17:27 likely had a few locals helping him out. And the police, well, they wanted that support to stop. In fact, by now, some 17:35 people even saw him as a local hero who was standing up against the law. And without any deaths under his belt, many 17:42 people were actually quite happy to turn a blind eye. On the other side of the fence, Cat also 17:49 stepped forward. And on June the 18th, 2024, that being Jada's 11th birthday, 17:55 she stood before cameras and begged for her children to be returned. So, let's play the video here. 18:07 Hello world. My name is Cat. I am from Alteora, the land of the long white 18:12 cloud. I am standing here before you today 18:17 begging you for your help to bring my babies home. They are just innocent children. They do 18:25 not deserve to be treated this way. They do not deserve the life that that that is being provided to them right now. 18:33 Today is Jada's birthday. She is 11. She will be a young woman now and she needs 18:40 her mother. Ember is asthmatic as am I and she needs 18:46 medical care that cannot be provided from the land. And I can only imagine 18:51 how Maverick is coping with the hand that life has dealt him. 18:56 Many of you say that the children are fine, that they're being well looked after. How do you know? Have you seen 19:02 them or is it just bush talk? What Thomas is doing is not okay. 19:09 It is not okay to divide and conquer. It is not okay to isolate and control. 19:16 It is child neglect. It is child endangerment. It is child abandonment. It is child abuse. None of this is okay. 19:25 My babies deserve better. I'm just a mother standing here in front of the 19:30 world begging you all to help me bring my babies home. Please, if anybody has 19:36 any information at all, ring the police. Despite the reward and the public 19:41 appeals, all tips would lead nowhere and the trail once again eventually went cold. However, that would all change in 19:48 October of 2024 when all of a sudden, a group of pig hunters out on their usual 19:54 routine spotted Tom and his children only 2 mi south of Maricopa. This grainy 20:00 footage showed Tom at the front with Jada, Maverick, and Ember trudging behind in single file. At one point, a 20:07 child even called out, "Who knows we're here?" The hunters wisely kept their distance, but as soon as they were gone, 20:15 they rushed this footage to the police. As soon as they became aware of this, officers launched a fullscale search 20:21 operation with ground teams and helicopters. But unfortunately, Tom's knowledge of the bush would win yet 20:27 again. And within days, both he and the children had vanished once more. Now, 20:33 obviously this footage was bittersweet for Cat, who felt both gratitude and grief. I mean, at least she could tell 20:40 that they were alive and well enough to walk, but she also called it exactly what it was, child abuse. As 2025 began, 20:48 tension only grew. By the middle of the year, the children were now 12, 10, and 20:54 9, and it seems that the legend surrounding Tom was wearing thin. Even his own family begged him to give up and 21:00 come home. In late August of 2025, Tom had yet again targeted the same supret 21:06 and pop. At dawn, a surveillance camera captured a man and his child breaking in 21:11 with an angle grinder before then fleeing on a quad bike with groceries in hand. It was the same store that he had 21:18 targeted back in 2023. And this time, the police were ready. The burglary was 21:24 the last straw for officers. Surveillance tightened, patrols ramped up, and although the military was ruled 21:31 out, the message was becoming quite clear towards Tom, the net was closing, and in September of 2025, a final 21:39 robbery would initiate a chain of events that would finally bring this entire saga crashing down. In the early hours 21:46 of September the 8th, an alarm was triggered at PGG Writson, a rural farm 21:51 supply store in Po. The call came through at around 2:30 a.m. and while 21:57 the break-in was still underway, given the recent events, police already had an idea of who it might be. Officers raced 22:04 to the scene, and sure enough, it was Tom Phillips and one of his children. Loading supplies onto a quad bike, they 22:11 all of a sudden realized that their cover was blown and immediately sped into the darkness. However, this time, 22:18 police units had already ringed the area. Officers deployed road spikes across all rural roads leading out of 22:25 the town. This including the junction along Tianga Road. Minutes later, the quad bike appeared before then hitting 22:32 the spikes and then grinding to a halt. Of course, Tom realized that he was now cornered. And sadly, he wasn't prepared 22:40 to go down easily. Both desperate and armed, Tom opened fire at one of the officers he saw. The officer was struck 22:47 multiple times with a high-powered rifle with one shot hitting him in the head and the other his eye. Now, 22:54 miraculously, although he was critically wounded, the officer managed to crawl for cover and then radio for help. Only 23:01 a few moments later, a second unit arrived. However, this time, police officers were ready to give Tom 23:08 everything they had back. The night erupted into a shootout until eventually 23:13 in the chaos, Tom was shot dead. And after nearly four years on the run, New 23:19 Zealand's most wanted man was now finally seized. The scene was chaotic, 23:24 and when the shooting stopped, police discovered multiple firearms near the quad bike and his body. It was clear 23:31 that Tom had been preparing to fight, but thankfully his child was unharmed. 23:36 However, as for the other two children, well, they were still missing. And so, 23:41 as soon as Sunrise appeared, a massive search followed. The police believed that Tom had very likely left them at a 23:48 nearby hideout while trying to steal food. And thankfully, the child that was now in custody was happy to help them 23:54 out. And so, with this information at hand, they got to work in finding them. 24:00 Later that afternoon, teams located Jada and her other brother at a makeshift campsite only two miles away from the 24:08 shooting. And although both were alive, one was reportedly armed with a rifle standing guard. Negotiators who were 24:15 dispatched to the scene eventually persuaded the child to put the weapon down and then finally at long last all 24:22 three children were pronounced safe. Investigators combed through the campsite and they realized that actually 24:29 they had been here for multiple months. They found crude shelters, charred fires, and scattered belongings. And 24:35 amongst all the scraps were signs of their former childhood, too, which by now only seemed to be reminders of what 24:42 had been stolen from them. As the news spread, the shootout stunned the community. And the mayor of Wattomo 24:49 called it the worst possible ending. And now Tom's family, who had pleaded for his return, were now left to mourn for a 24:56 son who had lost his way. As for Cat, well, the emotions were mixed. She 25:01 expressed relief that her children had all been found alive, but also she didn't want to see Tom dead. As for the 25:09 officer who took two bullets to the face, he was airlifted to Wakato Hospital and miraculously survived after 25:16 multiple surgeries. Now, unfortunately, he did have multiple life-changing injuries, which included the loss of one 25:23 of his eyes. But hey, I'm glad to hear that he made it. And so, after almost 4 25:29 years on the run, the mysterious case of the Maropa children was now finally 25:34 over. Not with surrender, but unfortunately with gunfire, and not with 25:39 answers, but with grief instead. Now, you might be thinking, "This surely is 25:44 the end of the story." But in a way, it's only the beginning for Jada, Maverick, and Ember. Because what 25:50 happens to them now? For the last 4 years, these kids have lived in near total isolation. Cut off from friends 25:57 and family alike. And who knows what their father told them. And not only did they witness their father commit crimes, 26:04 but they were made complicit at times, too. And one of them even saw their father die. And now all of a sudden, not 26:10 only are they back in civilization with all of these rules and processes that they didn't have to follow for the last 26:16 few years, but without a father, they have lost that compass that they've been following, too. There is no doubt that 26:22 this is going to be a very challenging process for all three children. 26:28 Of course, Cat will do everything that she can to help them heal. For now, the children are in the care of child 26:35 specialists who will be assessing their physical, mental, and emotional health. The oldest, at 12, may remember what 26:42 life was like before all of this, but the youngest at nine will barely recall anything. The priority will be giving 26:49 all three of them a childhood again, free of fear. Now, one of the big questions around this case is how Tom 26:55 managed to evade capture for so long. Part of the answer is obvious. He knew the land intimately. But of course, the 27:02 other concerning truth is that he probably had help, too. Although the police never laid any charges, it is 27:08 widely believed that locals quietly supplied food, gear, or even just silence towards Tom. Some people 27:15 sympathized with him as a father who was merely just fighting for his kids. In fact, a couple even framed it as 27:22 defiance against the courts. However, the thing is that loyalty towards Tom, 27:27 however well-intentioned, absolutely prolonged the suffering that these three children endured. And here's another 27:34 question. But what precisely was Tom's endgame? Now, some investigators believe 27:40 that his first disappearance in 2021 was merely just a trial run. And then, when 27:45 he realized that he was going to lose custody over his children, he basically felt forced into kidnapping them. of 27:52 course, gaslighting all three of them for the next four years in the process. Maybe he dreamed of eventually blending 27:59 back into society with all three of his children under new identities. However, in a country as close-knit as New 28:05 Zealand, that was absolutely fantasy. At its core, this all seemed to be around 28:11 custody. And I don't think that Tom had a plan really either. I mean, firing at an officer as soon as you're caught is 28:17 basically writing your own death sentence. I think Tom couldn't face losing his children to Cat. And so he 28:24 took them away entirely instead. And although he never sought to hurt them physically, he did in fact deny them of 28:30 school, friendships, safety, and even just a normal childhood. As the dust 28:35 settles, questions surrounding accountability still remain strong. It is true that the police once offered 28:41 amnesty to anyone helping Tom, but whether anyone will face any consequences in the future is still 28:47 unclear. Now, obviously, the wilderness itself was probably Tom's greatest ally. 28:53 He avoided phones, used cash, disguised himself in public, and moved camp frequently. It was the perfect storm of 29:00 terrain, preparation, and silence. But in the end, modern society caught up 29:06 with him. Whether you like it or not, Tom has already entered local folklore, who at least for the next few decades 29:13 will be known as the outlaw bushman who outwitted police for nearly four entire years. However, unlike legend, this was 29:20 not adventure. It was real life with real consequences. And sadly, most of 29:26 that will now land on his children. This has been a deeply traumatic incident this morning for those 29:32 involved. It has been confronting and challenging in a small, rural, isolated location. 29:40 And obviously, this is devastating news for Tom Phillips's family as well and is the outcome that nobody wanted. 29:48 And I think on that note, folks, we've come to the end of this story. A pretty bad outcome for Tom, but I'm just glad 29:54 that his children are safe. However, how they reintegrate into society is still yet to be seen. Before I go, what are 30:01 your thoughts on this case? Do you think that what Tom did was right? What do you think about his personality and 30:06 behavior? And what do you think will happen with the kids now? And did you like this story today? Let me know in 30:13 the comments down below. By the way, this is just a very quick heads up, but I'll be announcing something next week, 30:18 so keep your eyes peeled. And on that note, I'm going to stop the video here and probably make myself a coffee. 30:24 Anyway, thank you again so much for watching, and I'll see you very, very shortly for another one. Until that 30:30 moment arrives, though, remember to look after yourselves, stay safe, and of course, stay curious. Thank you and 30:36 goodbye.