WEBVTT 00:00:00.500 --> 00:00:21.379 Chapter 8. As far as I can remember, we had two 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:25.160 outstanding questions. They were outstanding 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:28.480 in every sense of the word. And they are outstanding. 00:00:29.649 --> 00:00:36.049 We have yet to answer whether or not the Deuteronomy 00:00:36.049 --> 00:00:43.070 chapter 17 was simply a prophecy that there would 00:00:43.070 --> 00:00:46.509 be a king or if it was God's endorsement or part 00:00:46.509 --> 00:00:49.929 of his plan that there would be a king in Israel. 00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:53.170 And then the second question I think that we 00:00:53.170 --> 00:00:57.090 still have yet to answer was whether or not it 00:00:57.090 --> 00:01:02.820 was... or how it was wrong or sinful for Israel 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:06.700 to ask Samuel for a king in 2 Samuel chapter 00:01:06.700 --> 00:01:10.859 8. Am I right? Is that what we had left to answer, 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:17.379 I think? Okay. So I'd like to answer those, but 00:01:17.379 --> 00:01:20.180 I would like to answer them as we move through 00:01:20.180 --> 00:01:24.560 the chapter. So last week I threw it open to 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:27.099 anybody that wanted to have anything that they 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:29.920 had. thought about while they were preparing, 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:32.640 and so that invitation remains the same today, 00:01:32.819 --> 00:01:36.280 but we'll just bring it out after each section. 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:43.700 So let's read the first five verses. Yeah, let's 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:45.540 read the first five verses of chapter 8. And 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:48.739 it came to pass when Samuel was old that he made 00:01:48.739 --> 00:01:51.959 his sons judges over Israel. Now the name of 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:56.680 his firstborn was Joel, and the name of his second, 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.829 Abiah. They were judges in Beersheba. And his 00:02:00.829 --> 00:02:03.349 sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside 00:02:03.349 --> 00:02:07.069 after lucre and took bribes and perverted judgment. 00:02:07.890 --> 00:02:10.750 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves 00:02:10.750 --> 00:02:14.090 together and came to Samuel unto Ramah and said 00:02:14.090 --> 00:02:17.389 unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons 00:02:17.389 --> 00:02:21.330 walk not in thy ways. Now make us a king to judge 00:02:21.330 --> 00:02:29.659 us like all the nations. And I think I said this 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:32.460 two weeks ago, that this is one of the hardest 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:35.900 chapters in Samuel to really understand what 00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:41.699 is being taught, what the problem was, exactly 00:02:41.699 --> 00:02:46.680 where the people's thought was, and to tie it 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.759 all together with all the rest of the predictions 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.740 of prophecies of kings, and we look at David. 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:59.129 So I think there is some... I think if we leave 00:02:59.129 --> 00:03:02.250 with some tension in our thinking as to what 00:03:02.250 --> 00:03:04.930 exactly was going on here, that's okay. It's 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:08.009 okay with me. I don't think we have to tie everything 00:03:08.009 --> 00:03:13.490 into perfect little knots and tie up every single 00:03:13.490 --> 00:03:19.689 loose end. So what was the problem with Samuel, 00:03:19.889 --> 00:03:22.830 and why did the elders of Israel go to Samuel? 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:28.939 Why did, was it wrong, we said this I think last 00:03:28.939 --> 00:03:31.000 week, was it wrong that Samuel appointed his 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.659 sons to be judges? And the answer we said was 00:03:34.659 --> 00:03:41.219 yes. We said it was wrong. So why did the elders 00:03:41.219 --> 00:03:45.000 then of Israel go to Samuel and demand a king 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:58.340 of Samuel? Yeah, but there was no other judge 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:03.500 that functioned in a way that would appoint or 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:12.800 establish a government. Well, somebody answer. 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:20.000 Who else would do it? God would do it. So, rather 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:28.500 than... No. When God appointed the judge, he 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:31.019 just appointed the judge. There was no succession 00:04:31.019 --> 00:04:37.899 in judges. God established what? He established 00:04:37.899 --> 00:04:43.180 the priesthood, which included the Levites. He 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:46.759 established the prophets. He established the 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.680 judges. So he didn't have any problem instituting 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:57.980 new... or forms of government in Israel. So why 00:04:57.980 --> 00:04:59.920 didn't the people go to the Lord then? That's 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:01.620 the question. Why didn't they go to the Lord 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:04.000 to establish a king rather than going to Samuel? 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:10.720 Why did they go to Samuel? Well, he established 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.740 a dynastic judgeship. That's why they went to 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.480 him. Apparently, they assumed that he had the 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.959 authority to establish a government in Israel. 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:23.779 And that's exactly what he did, right? When he 00:05:23.779 --> 00:05:27.000 appointed his sons to be judges, it was either 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:29.279 going to be their sons after them that were going 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.579 to continue to be judges, or his sons were going 00:05:32.579 --> 00:05:35.139 to appoint someone else in some other family 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:40.339 or some other person to be a judge. So the entirety 00:05:40.339 --> 00:05:43.980 of this first part of the chapter points to the 00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:48.100 fact that Samuel was just totally out of line 00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:51.540 with where God had intended for the, For the 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:54.839 nation to be. And how he intended to establish. 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:59.180 A dynasty in Israel. If that was his intention. 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:03.899 He eventually did that with David. It was David's 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:07.300 family. That was going to. Only David's family. 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:11.600 That was supposed to be kings. In Israel. So 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:18.399 what's the lesson for us there? Well it's really 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:22.019 important. That we. Especially when it comes 00:06:22.019 --> 00:06:29.160 to any kind of an exercise of authority that 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.660 we do so under the authority that God has given. 00:06:33.819 --> 00:06:36.399 So if God had said to Samuel, appoint your sons, 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:38.000 it would have been fine. He should have made 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.100 that public. God has told me to appoint my sons 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:43.399 to be judges. It's not my authority that I'm 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.560 doing this. I'm doing what God has instructed 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:52.949 me to do. The lesson there also in understanding 00:06:52.949 --> 00:06:57.430 this whole chapter and really this whole time 00:06:57.430 --> 00:07:07.769 in Judges is that who was judging Israel? Was 00:07:07.769 --> 00:07:14.829 it Samuel that was judging? Was it Barak who 00:07:14.829 --> 00:07:25.069 was judging? Okay, so behind the judge, the judge 00:07:25.069 --> 00:07:27.509 or the prophet, the priest, all that they were 00:07:27.509 --> 00:07:32.750 doing was voicing, was vocalizing the voice of 00:07:32.750 --> 00:07:36.009 God. Whether they had gotten that in their scripture 00:07:36.009 --> 00:07:38.769 or they had received a revelation directly from 00:07:38.769 --> 00:07:41.389 God, it was always God that was speaking to the 00:07:41.389 --> 00:07:44.670 people. Samuel went around that, and so the people 00:07:44.670 --> 00:07:47.290 came to Samuel to go around God to establish 00:07:47.290 --> 00:07:51.899 a king in Israel. That's my take on this first 00:07:51.899 --> 00:07:55.819 part, these first five verses. Anybody want to 00:07:55.819 --> 00:08:00.259 comment on that, disagree? Bring something else 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:36.700 up. Right. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:38.700 that they would have or wouldn't have. I'm saying 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:42.299 he gave the opportunity in doing what he did. 00:08:50.779 --> 00:08:54.559 And then it's like that Samuel not remember or 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.419 learn anything from that. And then he kind of 00:08:57.419 --> 00:09:00.379 does the same thing, like just appoints his son 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:02.379 to ride just because they're his son. Surely 00:09:02.379 --> 00:09:07.120 he knew they weren't walking in his ways. It's 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:22.840 just interesting. Yes, it is. All right, then 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.419 let's read this next section, starting in verse 00:09:25.419 --> 00:09:28.279 6. But the thing displeased Samuel, the people 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:31.340 asking for a king displeased Samuel when they 00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:34.820 said, give us a king to judge us. I think that's 00:09:34.820 --> 00:09:36.960 really interesting, too. They don't say give 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:39.539 us a king to rule us. They say give us a king 00:09:39.539 --> 00:09:44.019 to judge us. And we saw that a lot of the judges, 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:46.059 they kind of looked like kings in what they did. 00:09:46.379 --> 00:09:48.799 But it's interesting that they would phrase it 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:53.820 in that way. And that's why I think Samuel took 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:55.899 it as a rejection of him, and that's why it was 00:09:55.899 --> 00:09:58.399 a rejection of him, but it was a rejection of 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.419 the Lord more than that. And Samuel prayed unto 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:04.840 the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:07.139 unto the voice of the people, and all that they 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:09.860 say unto thee. For they have not rejected thee, 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.480 but they have rejected me, that I should not 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.850 reign over them. According to all the works which 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.769 they have done since the day that I brought them 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.129 up out of Egypt, even unto this day, wherewith 00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:24.730 they have forsaken me and served other gods, 00:10:25.009 --> 00:10:29.370 so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken 00:10:29.370 --> 00:10:33.309 unto their voice, howbeit yet protest solemnly 00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:35.610 unto them, and show them the manner of the king 00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:45.230 that shall reign over them. What was wrong with 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:47.950 the request? Have we come to a conclusion there? 00:10:59.590 --> 00:11:15.419 Say that again. It's been God appointing the 00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:20.039 judges, God appointing Abraham, Moses, all the 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.080 people before, but now it's reversed because 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:29.559 Samuel appointed his sons without confirming 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.919 or asking God what he should do, even though 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:36.559 he was established by God himself, not following 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.720 even the way he had been established, but now 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:41.580 the people are like, oh, Samuel appointed himself 00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:44.019 for his sons. I guess that's what we need to 00:11:44.019 --> 00:11:47.600 do. Okay, so that is, and that's right. That's 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.279 one reason. They didn't go to God. They didn't 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.279 even ask Samuel to go to God and see if this 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.460 was the time to establish a king in Israel. They 00:11:57.460 --> 00:12:01.740 just went and demanded of Samuel that he appoint 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:22.820 a king. What else? So what does that tell us 00:12:22.820 --> 00:12:30.299 about them? He said their hearts were far from 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:42.460 the Lord. That's true. God calls us to be set 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:46.059 apart and holy, right? We're to be a set -apart 00:12:46.059 --> 00:12:48.700 people, set -apart for the work of the Lord. 00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:57.919 And that puts us at odds with what? 90%, 95 % 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.240 of the people that we come in contact with every 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.559 day. We are the weirdos in the eyes of the world. 00:13:05.539 --> 00:13:10.500 And that is uncomfortable a lot of times. Everybody 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.960 at your place of work. They want to celebrate 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.000 whatever. This is how we're going to celebrate 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:20.779 it. And you have to say, I'm not interested in 00:13:20.779 --> 00:13:24.039 that at all. That's not fun. I won't be there. 00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:26.600 And then what? They all look at you like you've 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.500 got two heads. What's wrong with you? There's 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:38.679 this underlying need or feeling that we all have 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:42.559 from time to time to just be normal. To just 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.039 not stand out. I used to hate it when we would 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.940 go to these family camps and you had to sit around 00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:51.679 in a circle and introduce yourself to a bunch 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:55.240 of strangers. One thing I couldn't remember anybody 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.580 else's name. It didn't really matter to me that 00:13:57.580 --> 00:14:01.299 this person was however old or whatever. You 00:14:01.299 --> 00:14:04.820 just kind of want to go along and do your thing. 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.940 Maybe that's necessary. Whatever. I'm just saying. 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:15.679 When you're in a crowd, what? Unless you're dying 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:17.379 to be the center of attention, you just kind 00:14:17.379 --> 00:14:19.080 of want to get along with everybody and just 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:21.360 kind of meld into the crowd and not stick out 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:26.379 like a sore thumb. But that's not possible for 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:29.860 Christians. You're going to stick out like a 00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:32.240 sore thumb if you're going to faithfully follow 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:37.039 the Lord. There's no question about that. Israel 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:39.200 was very uncomfortable with that, apparently. 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:41.759 We want to be like everybody else. Here we are 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.879 in the middle of Canaan and we've got all these 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.840 kings around us and all these different kinds 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:51.360 of governments. Can we just be like them? Can 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.860 we just not stick out like a sore thumb amongst 00:14:53.860 --> 00:15:00.980 all the rest of the people in the world? So that's 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:02.899 why we know that their heart was far from the 00:15:02.899 --> 00:15:06.889 Lord. They weren't willing to... Stand there 00:15:06.889 --> 00:15:10.610 and bear the ire of everybody around them. They 00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:13.269 were tired of it. They were tired of God. We 00:15:13.269 --> 00:15:15.210 want to be done with that. We just want to be 00:15:15.210 --> 00:15:26.669 like everybody else. What else? Well, is there 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:29.009 any kind of a... Did anybody get any sense of 00:15:29.009 --> 00:15:36.509 a request here? Did they ask Samuel, would you 00:15:36.509 --> 00:15:43.230 make us a king? They just demanded it. It's like 00:15:43.230 --> 00:15:46.909 this spoiled little kid. Give us a king. We want 00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:49.850 a king. And that's just what, I mean, that's 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:52.549 what my Bible says. Does anybody's Bible give 00:15:52.549 --> 00:15:54.929 them any indication that this was, they were 00:15:54.929 --> 00:16:06.399 making a request of Samuel? No. So nowhere in 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:10.320 all of scripture is there anyone that makes any 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.840 kind of a demand upon God or upon his prophet 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.679 on the scene. You don't get to demand of God. 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.379 We don't, he doesn't, and nobody in history or 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:25.200 in the future ever will make demands of God. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.039 But they didn't seem to have, I mean, the audacity 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:32.860 of the whole thing. And God, what does he say? 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:34.679 This is just in line with everything that you've 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.279 done since I brought you out of Egypt. Just like 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.700 every other time. You're leaving me for another 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:48.740 God. And then in their demand was that they wanted 00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:52.620 it now. Not only are we demanding this king, 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.649 but we're demanding him now. Again, I mean, it's 00:16:57.649 --> 00:17:02.149 really, whether or not God intended to bring 00:17:02.149 --> 00:17:06.630 kingship to Israel is beside the point entirely 00:17:06.630 --> 00:17:11.890 here because the way that they went about making 00:17:11.890 --> 00:17:15.809 their demands and what they wanted made any kind 00:17:15.809 --> 00:17:20.890 of, made it really impossible for God to bring 00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:23.589 kingship the way that he intended at this time. 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:26.569 Now what happens, if you've read the rest of 00:17:26.569 --> 00:17:32.750 Samuel, is God does recapture or take over the 00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:35.589 whole timeline of kingship in Israel. And he 00:17:35.589 --> 00:17:42.009 begins working then to bring David into the palace 00:17:42.009 --> 00:17:45.049 in Jerusalem, if you want to use that kind of 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.230 language. God does take it back over. He says, 00:17:48.329 --> 00:17:50.750 I'm giving you what you want, but now I'm going 00:17:50.750 --> 00:17:53.569 to go about and I'm going to work out. kingship 00:17:53.569 --> 00:17:56.569 in Israel the way that I want and with the king 00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:00.410 that I've selected. But he does give them what 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:04.349 they wanted. What do you guys make of that? If 00:18:04.349 --> 00:18:09.490 this wasn't God's timing, then why did God give 00:18:09.490 --> 00:18:19.990 them the king that they demanded? Well, he granted 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:29.769 them their desire, but why? So they could bear 00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:34.069 the consequences of it. That seems to be later 00:18:34.069 --> 00:18:37.589 on he says in verse 18 you'll cry out in that 00:18:37.589 --> 00:18:40.269 day because of your king which you have chosen 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:44.769 and the Lord will not hear you on that day. So 00:18:44.769 --> 00:19:00.380 what's the lesson there for us? Okay. So we can 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:04.440 ask the Lord for whatever's on our heart, as 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.140 long as our heart and our motive is right in 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:10.980 the thing. That's fine. But we accept the Lord's 00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.900 answer of no, maybe no, not at this time, maybe 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:20.220 no, not ever, because it's better for us to be 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:24.799 there than to get what we want and then have 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:29.109 to bear the consequences of that. We ought to 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:32.430 remember that in our prayers and just in the 00:19:32.430 --> 00:19:37.549 way that we check our desires. All right, then. 00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:39.309 Anybody else want to say anything there before 00:19:39.309 --> 00:19:48.069 we move on? All right, then. In verse 9, Now 00:19:48.069 --> 00:19:50.430 therefore hearken unto their voice, howbeit yet 00:19:50.430 --> 00:19:54.049 protest solemnly unto them, and show them the 00:19:54.049 --> 00:19:56.230 manner of the king that shall reign over them. 00:19:56.859 --> 00:19:59.539 And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto 00:19:59.539 --> 00:20:02.880 the people that asked of him a king. And he said, 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.519 This will be the manner of the king that shall 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.859 reign over you. He will take your sons and appoint 00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:13.980 them for himself. I'm not going to read that 00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:16.400 all. What did you guys think about all that? 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:20.099 What do you think about what's Samuel saying? 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:31.420 Are these the signs of a bad king? Okay, so it's 00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:33.480 not that this king is going to be particularly 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.579 wicked because he's going to take your sons and 00:20:36.579 --> 00:20:38.440 your daughters and your land and your riches 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.240 and you're going to have to pay him taxes. That's 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.460 just the way, that's what a king is. Samuel's 00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:46.759 just giving a definition of a king. Now, undoubtedly, 00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:50.700 those things can be and were, even by Saul, abused. 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:56.660 And he went beyond what was normal or needed. 00:20:57.549 --> 00:21:00.549 But the way of the king is that everything in 00:21:00.549 --> 00:21:02.609 the kingdom belongs to the king. That includes 00:21:02.609 --> 00:21:06.730 people, servants, cattle, land, everything. There's 00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:09.190 a certain maintenance that goes along with having 00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:12.950 any kind of a government. So Samuel's not saying 00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:20.029 taxes are necessarily evil. Taxes, you have to 00:21:20.029 --> 00:21:22.470 pay to maintain whatever the government that 00:21:22.470 --> 00:21:25.240 you have. Expect that. Now they didn't have to 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.099 pay to maintain a government except for the sacrifices 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:34.359 that the priests and the Levites took. So they 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:39.319 had it pretty good as far as their money went. 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:45.900 And the people, the elders that came to them, 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.759 undoubtedly those were probably the wealthiest 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.720 people, had the best lands, had the most servants. 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.299 They were the ones that stood to lose the most 00:21:56.299 --> 00:22:00.039 by appointing this king, or by having a king 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.480 to rule over them. What does that tell us? Samuel 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.799 goes through all this. He teaches them. He teaches 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.279 them what it's going to mean to be a king, and 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:19.059 they say what? Okay, that's what we want. So 00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:24.420 what does that tell us? What does that tell us 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:31.339 about education? It's not the answer. Okay. That's 00:22:31.339 --> 00:22:35.160 pretty obvious, isn't it? If you're still waffling 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.619 between an educated or an uneducated populace, 00:22:38.619 --> 00:22:42.279 which one is more able to honor the Lord? You're 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.059 barking up the wrong tree. If you're wondering 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:48.279 if it's an educated or an uneducated person that's 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.779 able to make good decisions. The answer is it 00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:54.019 doesn't have any bearing on the subject at all. 00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:57.599 You can teach a stupid person everything that 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.519 they need to know. They're not going to apply 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:04.779 then that knowledge so that they can make good 00:23:04.779 --> 00:23:10.160 decisions. Now, I'm not dismissing. I'm not saying 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.359 that education is a bad thing. I'm saying that 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.880 education is not the answer to bad decisions. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.980 You can educate someone as much as you want. 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:21.960 But it's not going to make them make good decisions. 00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:24.460 It's not going to make them make decisions that 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:27.480 honor the Lord. The solution in Israel was not 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.480 that these people just needed to be educated. 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:39.480 So then why did God educate them? So they'd be 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:49.740 without excuse. There's something... That ought 00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:55.480 to be horrifying to us in that. Here we have 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:59.519 the only revelation of God that is ever going 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.279 to be had. And living in our time, we have it 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:05.180 in more abundance than any other generation has 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:11.539 ever had. We are the privileged generation. If 00:24:11.539 --> 00:24:13.940 we want to know what God thinks about any given 00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:17.019 subject, we have his Bible. And we have countless 00:24:17.019 --> 00:24:21.279 books by countless godly men. Now we can go beyond 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.660 that. We can find all kinds of ungodly men that 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:25.160 have written all kinds of things. But we can 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:29.299 fill our bookshelves with books written by men 00:24:29.299 --> 00:24:33.380 who were submitted to the Lord. I don't understand 00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:36.680 this passage. I can find five or six different 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.859 godly men who have lived godly lives. And they 00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:45.619 can teach me what I need to know. So what ought 00:24:45.619 --> 00:24:48.180 to be the most godly people that have ever lived? 00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:00.660 Liz? Us. I mean, would somebody want to take 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:09.940 the other side and argue against that? So then 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:12.960 as we go about our days evaluating ourselves, 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.059 Let's not give ourselves a pass. I guess that's 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:21.859 what I'm saying. Let's not chalk it up to technology. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:27.660 Well, no other generation had Facebook. So we're 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:35.279 definitely at a disadvantage. Let's just reckon 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.160 with the truth of the matter that we have more 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.839 opportunity to know God and to understand His 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.660 Word. Than any group of people that have ever 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:52.599 lived on the face of the earth. It didn't do 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:59.440 Israel any good. It ought to do us good. Alright. 00:25:59.539 --> 00:26:01.200 What does that tell us about government? Anybody 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:08.720 want to make an application there? It's all bad 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:21.650 all the time. Well, is the form of government 00:26:21.650 --> 00:26:29.009 the problem? Okay, and what's going to differentiate 00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:31.650 between a good government and a bad government? 00:26:35.349 --> 00:26:44.900 In what way? Well, let's be specific. Let's say 00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:48.279 I've got two democracies. How am I going to know 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:55.160 which one is a good government? Okay. Maybe they 00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:59.900 both do. What about, now we could say communism 00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:04.440 in some sense. What if you had a communist leader 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.240 who was, or a dictator, who was a Christian? 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.900 Would that be impossible to live under that form 00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:19.660 of government? I don't know. Does he kill you 00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:28.240 if you're not a Christian? I mean, it's not impossible. 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:31.900 Okay. Because you're saying he's a real Christian. 00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:46.319 Yeah. Is there any other kind? So it's not the 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:48.700 form of government, it's who's running the government 00:27:48.700 --> 00:27:53.119 that's the problem. They had judges, and as long 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:59.460 as they followed the judge, they did fine. They 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:03.059 had a king, and as long as the king was following 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.299 the Lord, everything was fine. They had Moses, 00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:08.160 and they lived under Moses, and as long as they 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.180 did what Moses told them to do, everything was 00:28:10.180 --> 00:28:17.269 great. whatever the form of government, as long 00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:20.529 as it's the Lord who is ruling and the government 00:28:20.529 --> 00:28:23.349 is voicing the word of the Lord to the people, 00:28:23.490 --> 00:28:32.250 then everything is great. Alright, anybody want 00:28:32.250 --> 00:28:50.559 to say anything there? Is there anything different 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:52.799 between a monarchy and the government that we 00:28:52.799 --> 00:29:08.400 have? Is that the question? I just hate when 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.619 people say that. It's the government that's our 00:29:11.619 --> 00:29:15.079 problem. It's like, no, you're the problem. You're 00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:17.019 in a democracy. You can vote for different people. 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.819 Like, it's a relatively free country. You know, 00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:22.940 people just complain about, it's like, you're 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:25.500 not living in Soviet Russia or, like, some, you 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:32.019 know, completely bad place. Anyway. Well, I'm 00:29:32.019 --> 00:29:33.420 just saying, like, you know, we get to participate 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:35.740 in our government. We do get to participate. 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.140 Yeah, it's not like an authoritarian king. So 00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:43.160 anyway, maybe having godly people running our 00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.700 government would be good, but also maybe having 00:29:45.700 --> 00:29:51.019 a godly voting base would also be, I guess, you 00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:54.059 know, particularly good in a place that gets 00:29:54.059 --> 00:30:00.960 to vote. In a democracy, the rulers reflect the 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:09.660 people. Maybe in a monarchy, the people reflect 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:15.819 the ruler. That's what we see in Israel. But 00:30:15.819 --> 00:30:20.119 they are one and the same as far as their godliness 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:39.759 or their ungodliness as a general rule. Okay, 00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:43.400 now we just need to come to a decision on whether 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:48.339 or not the... I guess we don't have to. We're 00:30:48.339 --> 00:30:50.140 given the opportunity to come to a decision on 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:53.740 whether or not the Deuteronomy 17 passage was 00:30:53.740 --> 00:31:01.339 predictive or indicative of that kingship was 00:31:01.339 --> 00:31:06.839 eventually in God's plan for Israel. My answer 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.680 is that it was always in God's plan for Israel, 00:31:10.700 --> 00:31:13.839 but it was going to be in his time and in his 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:18.670 way and his king. And I think this passage in 00:31:18.670 --> 00:31:23.410 Samuel violates all of that. Does anybody want 00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:26.349 to disagree with that and voice your opinion 00:31:26.349 --> 00:31:43.849 as to why? Well, that was God's anointed king, 00:31:44.029 --> 00:32:02.609 yeah. Is there a question about that? This wasn't 00:32:02.609 --> 00:32:07.690 God's time. Well, that's what I'm saying is that 00:32:07.690 --> 00:32:11.049 this wasn't God's time. This was Israel's time. 00:32:11.109 --> 00:32:13.150 They demanded a king and they demanded it now 00:32:13.150 --> 00:32:16.599 and they demanded the man that they wanted. A 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:18.740 man that would lead him out into battle and rule 00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:22.519 over him in place of God and replacing Samuel. 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.880 I have a question for you. David didn't let him 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.180 kill Saul because he was God's anointed. And 00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:34.160 then he killed the guy who killed Saul because 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.559 he was God's anointed. So it must have been one 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.099 of the... He was God's anointed. He was. Yeah. 00:32:49.450 --> 00:32:53.029 Saul wasn't God's choice. He was anointed by 00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:55.849 God. He was the people's choice. God told Samuel, 00:32:55.930 --> 00:33:09.069 give them what they want. Well, we said why God 00:33:09.069 --> 00:33:14.430 allowed it. We said why God gave it to him. So 00:33:14.430 --> 00:33:16.789 they could bear the consequences and so he could 00:33:16.789 --> 00:33:21.970 bring his king then in stark contrast to Israel's 00:33:21.970 --> 00:33:25.029 choice for a king. And David was a stark contrast 00:33:25.029 --> 00:33:30.250 most of the time from Saul. And he was always 00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:32.529 contrasted in the sense that he was a man after 00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:39.430 God's own heart. But that didn't make Saul something 00:33:39.430 --> 00:33:43.390 to be scoffed at. God, I mean, it was a... When 00:33:43.390 --> 00:33:46.650 they installed Saul as king, it was under, it 00:33:46.650 --> 00:33:50.190 was by Samuel, who was God's prophet, according 00:33:50.190 --> 00:33:55.250 to God's instruction. So he was there under the 00:33:55.250 --> 00:33:59.890 authority of God. So you couldn't dismiss him 00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:05.950 as less than that ever. And David didn't. That's 00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:09.090 it. I mean, if you see the contrast between David, 00:34:09.289 --> 00:34:13.809 here he... Here's Saul as king. David's been 00:34:13.809 --> 00:34:16.889 anointed as king, right? And then what does David 00:34:16.889 --> 00:34:21.369 do? He just waits for God's time. He waited, 00:34:21.449 --> 00:34:27.090 how many years was it? Years he waited. Hiding 00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:30.130 in caves, running here and running there, always 00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:33.130 in fear of his life, having the opportunity to 00:34:33.130 --> 00:34:36.429 help Israel. He did, having the opportunity to 00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:40.840 kill Saul. He didn't. He just waited until God's 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:46.400 timing. That's totally in contrast to what Israel 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.599 did. Israel said, we want a king, and we want 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:58.420 him now, and we want to get to choose him. All 00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:02.800 right, then. And this may be the biggest and 00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:07.980 hardest lesson for us to learn. If God eventually 00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:13.860 wanted to have kingship in Israel, Israel asked 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:21.539 or demanded for a king. So they were asking or 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:24.179 demanding what God was intending to give them 00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:29.400 eventually. But their motive was totally wrong 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:37.329 in the whole thing. It's very subtle. Hopefully 00:35:37.329 --> 00:35:41.789 we can see that in our own lives. I want this 00:35:41.789 --> 00:35:47.889 good thing. I want this thing that God says he 00:35:47.889 --> 00:35:54.409 wants for me. But why do I want it? And am I 00:35:54.409 --> 00:35:59.230 willing to wait God's time for it? Now that's 00:35:59.230 --> 00:36:02.610 hard. And I think that's one of the reasons that 00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:12.659 this is such a hard chapter. another opportunity 00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:15.099 then to check ourselves. Even in the things that 00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:18.880 God says, these are good things. Even in the 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:22.599 promises of God, we await his timing in the thing. 00:36:23.059 --> 00:36:25.340 He said he's going to give me food, but I'm hungry 00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:28.559 right now. None of us is hungry, I don't think. 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:34.019 If you are, get with me after the meeting. But 00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:37.539 it's an easy demonstration. God promises, and 00:36:37.539 --> 00:36:39.940 there's Christians that have starved to death. 00:36:44.539 --> 00:36:49.659 God's timing. God fulfills His promises in His 00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:52.920 time. And we don't have the right to demand of 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.519 God that God meet our timeline in anything. And 00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.500 if our heart is anywhere other than just submitted 00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:03.300 to the Lord and patiently waiting for His time 00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:05.539 for this thing to come into my life, then we 00:37:05.539 --> 00:37:15.139 are on the wrong track. And that is hard. All 00:37:15.139 --> 00:37:16.900 right, anybody else want to say anything else, 00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.800 make an application for us? Or bring something 00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.539 else out? Or else next week we're going to go 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:52.519 on to Chapter 9. and you shall be his slaves. 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:55.039 And in that day you will pray out because of 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.880 your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, 00:37:58.179 --> 00:38:00.079 but the Lord will not answer you in that day. 00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:04.559 So, I guess it sounded like we were saying these 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.420 things aren't inherently bad, but then you could 00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:20.750 abuse them, like if Saul was your king. So, I 00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:22.650 guess it doesn't say, I don't know, it doesn't 00:38:22.650 --> 00:38:27.010 make it sound like this king is abusing these 00:38:27.010 --> 00:38:29.050 powers or anything. It just sounds like, you 00:38:29.050 --> 00:38:31.809 know, these are just sort of facts, right? Like, 00:38:31.829 --> 00:38:36.369 he takes your lands. You know, that's just part 00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:39.449 of, you know, if you want a monarchy, then this 00:38:39.449 --> 00:38:46.590 is what's going to have to happen. So, are you 00:38:46.590 --> 00:38:47.849 saying that's a bad thing, or are you saying 00:38:47.849 --> 00:38:51.639 that... Abusing. Like, are you saying that system 00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:54.139 is a bad thing, or abusing that system is a bad 00:38:54.139 --> 00:38:58.199 thing? The abuse is a bad thing. Well, I guess 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:04.179 I just don't see that. What? Well, it just, it 00:39:04.179 --> 00:39:08.900 doesn't, it just... I'm not saying they're crying 00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:11.199 out because of the abuse. They're going to suffer 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:14.239 abuse. They're going to suffer all kinds of stuff 00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:15.739 that they wouldn't have suffered if they waited 00:39:15.739 --> 00:39:18.139 God's time. And when they cry out and whatever 00:39:18.139 --> 00:39:21.239 distress that is, it's going to be because they 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:25.360 demanded their king. And God's not going to hear 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:38.659 it. You understand what I'm saying? You're disagreeing 00:39:38.659 --> 00:39:46.409 with what I'm saying. There's going to come a 00:39:46.409 --> 00:39:50.150 time when Israel is going to regret making this 00:39:50.150 --> 00:39:53.269 demand of God. And when they cry out to God in 00:39:53.269 --> 00:39:57.269 that day, God's not going to hear them. That's 00:39:57.269 --> 00:40:02.849 what the text says. Well, I guess we'll have 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:04.409 to read the rest of our Bible and we'll find 00:40:04.409 --> 00:40:14.570 it, won't we? I mean, if you've ever read Kings, 00:40:18.109 --> 00:40:22.449 no doubt you'll find wicked kings and suffering 00:40:22.449 --> 00:40:40.269 people. So Saul was the first king. Did we say 00:40:40.269 --> 00:40:42.030 Saul was the first king or David was the first 00:40:42.030 --> 00:40:48.440 king? Saul was the first king. Okay. Description 00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:51.380 of the monarchy. Is that true? Throughout the 00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:54.159 whole. Whether it's Saul or David. Or anybody 00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:56.900 after them. It's true. No matter who the king 00:40:56.900 --> 00:41:03.400 is. So it was kind of the same system then? In 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:06.860 a king. The system that Israel demanded. Not 00:41:06.860 --> 00:41:16.420 the way that God wanted to set it up. Samuel 00:41:16.420 --> 00:41:23.900 is. Describing what a king is. In Israel. In 00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:31.519 Egypt. In England. This is what a king is. In 00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:40.199 Saudi Arabia. In our day. He's just describing 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:58.420 what a king is. And what he owns. Well, get with 00:41:58.420 --> 00:42:06.619 me afterwards. Okay? Okay. Anybody else?