And welcome back to the PD Football Podcast.
My name is Presh. My name is Darren. And how
are you doing today? I'm okay, I'm okay. I'm
feeling a bit fatigued as usual. Every week.
It's becoming like a catchphrase now. Go print
some t -shirts that says fatigued as usual. Fatigued
as usual, yeah. That should be my catchphrase.
But yeah, how is everything on your end? I'm
great. I've caught up with Invincible. great
show very sci -fi you know i don't know how else
to say it like um so when i went to watch avatar
the way of what and not the way of water uh fire
nash um there was this idiotic person like two
or three rows behind me who couldn't stop saying
who couldn't stop speaking during the movie but
the one of the which time was this the second
time i went to watch uh with my cousin So this
lady just spoke and spoke and spoke. But one
thing that stuck with me is she said, I love
how sci -fi this is. That was the one good thing
that came of it. No, she said a lot of interesting
things, but you're not supposed to speak in a
theater. I went and complained. Who did you complain
to? The theater manager. The office is just outside
the place. Now again, because this was the second
time I watched it, I didn't mind. taking like
one or two minutes out of my time to go and complain
go complain how did you complain during the movie
yes of course what the did they tell her to keep
quiet yes they sent an employee to come in the
employee just stood there they spoke and then
the guy told them hey stop speaking and then
yeah i'll go complain i don't care like you you're
ruining the experience for like a lot of people
like uh if that wasn't my second time i would
i'd be very very pissed so yeah i can imagine
it's annoying anyway similarly invincible is
just so sci -fi i love the concepts the ideas
the you know the places they go to it's very
It's very interesting. I'll probably try to check
it out if I get the time. But my girlfriend has
also been recommending it to me. So I should
try to check it out at some point. No, well,
it's not like at the top of the list. I would
recommend other things before Invincible. But
like, yeah, let's just... I just want to remind
you that this is a football podcast. And... There's
no football this week. Well, there's international
games, but... So due to the international break,
we're going to be doing an evergreen episode.
That means you can listen to it at any time and
it will still largely be how we feel. as opposed
to our regular episodes where opinions can change
week on week. The only rule I imposed on myself,
because we didn't really discuss any rules for
this, but the thing is I need to have watched
this player in their prime. So this rules out
a player such as Andy Cole, who I think is underrated
based on reputation, but I only saw him for a
few seasons at the end of his career, so I think
it would be unfair to comment on it. if i haven't
seen him play yeah i think i went with the same
thing i have to at least watch like one full
season by them andy cole just before we get into
it i wanted to say he is like you wouldn't think
of him as a prolific goal scorer like people
just don't bring him up in those conversations
but if you look at the the statistics he is the
number five gold scorer of all time in the premier
league he was only very recently overtaken by
salah and if you Take away penalties, he's the
number two goalscorer of all time in the Premier
League, just behind Alan Shearer. That's crazy,
yeah. I didn't know that, but I guess... That's
why he's underrated. But again, that's just by
reputation. We didn't. I've never seen him play,
so I cannot... Yeah, I mean, I was probably not
even born when he started playing. That's an
insane record, though, so he's definitely underrated
because I haven't heard him brought up. in any
conversations or at least not to like the same
degree as Alan Shearer you know yeah and he was
a peer of Alan Shearer so and a lot of people
didn't watch Shearer as well so and they'll bring
Shearer up in conversations so why not Andy Cole
I mean people could say Andy Cole won more I
don't know what the dynamics were like at the
time you know Andy Cole won five league titles
and one champions league Alan Shearer won one
league title Oh, with Blackburn, yeah. Yes. Okay,
would you like to hear the argument against?
And I guess this is like a trial run for when
we actually get into the list. Yeah. The argument
against was that, first of all, he was quite
a lazy player. But that's not really a bad thing,
is it? Yeah, I mean, I guess in this list, you're
going to have a lot of things where we're just
overlooking things that people think, oh, this
is a drawback of this player or something, you
know? That's normal, I guess. But, I mean, I
didn't watch either Andy Cole or Alan Shearer.
I mean, statistically, like you said, maybe it
appears that Andy Cole probably is more prolific
or had a period where I think generally at some
point he was the most prolific in Premier League
history in terms of... I think Jamie Vardy beat
him, right? The most consecutive game scored
or something. Or Ruud van Nistelrooy as well.
But there's some record he held that was pretty
impressive of... goals per game i think i don't
know if it was over a course of one season or
something i think it was most goals and assists
combined in the season and that was just overtaken
by salah oh okay yeah in the previous last year
oh yeah that's what i'm saying i didn't even
know he was in i just thought of him as like
an out and out number nine so i didn't know he
got a lot of assists in any season so then well
it's mainly his goals and then you know like
how harlan gets assists yeah just because he's
like in the vicinity of like the danger zone
he'll just pass it to somebody like one meter
away and they'll finish it off yeah so similarly
now again i didn't watch him week to week but
that's the impression i got while i was doing
my research of andy cole but kudos to andy cole
i guess if we had watched him he could have made
the list so another i don't want to say a rule
but just something i kind of live by in my life
is there's no rage bait on this list right these
are genuine opinions even if you think they're
unbelievably wrong no one on my list will put
there to seek attention or cause people to get
angry or you know like it's a shame that i have
to say that out loud but there are a lot of people
who do it you know to cause controversy or to
court controversy so that yeah i think it's all
about the context like i mean people would think
Maybe, oh, okay, you're age -baiting by saying
this player, but then that's just what I believe
in the context of how that player is generally
spoken of. I'm not necessarily, if someone's
on the overrated list, I'm not necessarily saying
they're not a top -class player. And if someone's
on the underrated list, I'm not necessarily saying
they're better than anyone who's on the overrated
list. It's just in the context of how their game
is appreciated. All right. So, if you don't mind,
can we start with the underrated list? My underrated
list. Well, this is what I thought we'd do, right?
We'd throw back to each other. So, I start with
five, you're five. My four, you're four. My three,
you're three. But let's say, for example, my
five is your two. Yeah. I bring it up first.
You will, you know, give your points. Bring it
up at a different point. No, no, no. You bring
it up at the same time as me. oh okay you get
what i'm saying yeah then we'll have one clear
discussion about that player we don't split it
up into so who's your number five uh so just
before we start i just want to give a bonus because
as i was doing my research for this episode the
name i kept seeing pop up was dennis irwin I've
literally never, not never heard that name, I've
heard that name. I've heard of him, but I can't
even recall watching one game of his. Yes, so
like Andy Cole, he played before my time, so
I can't comment on him, but I very rarely hear
him discussed by older football fans. He was
a fullback and he's not in the fullback conversations
that you hear all the time. So yeah, just a quick
bonus. If you did watch Dennis Owen. We didn't
leave him off because we hate him, you know.
Yeah. Number five, Santi Cazorla. So unfortunately,
injuries robbed Arsenal of an incredible player.
But in the short time that I saw him, I was amazed
by his quality. And very unfortunately, he was
in the same era as David Silva, who himself is
underrated, but doesn't make this list because,
you know, he's quite well known. Yeah, I mean,
for my number five, I went... Wait, wait, wait.
Just let's discuss Cazorla. I didn't put him
on the... No, no, just your thoughts. I would
say he's an underrated player, generally speaking,
but he didn't make my list, mostly because I
think amongst Arsenal fans, the circles that
I'm consuming information in, he's very highly
regarded. Sure, but I think when I made my list,
I was more thinking about the casual fan, what
the casual fan thinks, and I just don't think
the casual fan looks back at that era and thinks,
oh, Cazorla was, you know, Yeah, I'd say he probably...
He came before the era which I'd say was the
best Premier League era, slightly before it.
At least he had his prime then. So I would say...
Perhaps if he was in Chelsea or Man City at that
time, he might have gotten better appreciation.
But he definitely was one of the best midfielders
in the league at the time. I think while he was
playing, people acknowledged that quite readily.
Like, oh, okay, he's Arsenal's best player. Most
of the time, people acknowledge that. So I think
it's more, like you said, in retrospect, he's
underappreciated. Maybe a little bit underrated.
But definitely one of my favorite players, I
think. I would love him in the modern Arsenal
team, I think. Especially, I think, him instead
of Odegaard would be a big upgrade for me. Not
that I'm throwing Odegaard under the bus, but
I think he was also... It's just to speak to
Cazorla's quality. Quality, and how good he was
out of possession as well, because I think that's
the best part of Odegaard's game. I recall a
game against Man City when, in the season, they
won the league. I don't remember if it was under
Pellegrini or Mancini, but... I think Kozola
had an incredible game defensively. And we beat
them 2 -0. But it was the first time we beat
a big team in a long, long time under Wenger.
Maybe like three or four seasons. And that was
still one of the best individual displays I've
seen from an Arsenal player. Okay, you're number
five. My number five I went with purely because
I think obviously in terms of his output. I think
he had one of the best output. My number five
is Heung -Min Son. from Tottenham. I think statistically
and in terms of his output, he should be spoken
of as one of the best wingers in the history
of the league. But I don't think he ever gets
mentioned in that regard. Could be because Tottenham
hasn't won anything. Does that fall on him? Does
that fall on Harry Kane? But I think in that
team, people usually speak of Harry Kane, Moussa
Dembele, Christian Eriksen. Of all the players
there, even Dele Alli gets more mention than
him. So I would put Son as my number five. I
don't know how much I agree with that. I think
the casual fan recognizes how good Son is. I
don't think so. I don't think even when people
reflect back on it now, I think I see mostly
Dembele or Kane propaganda 85 % of the time.
I don't really see people talking about Son.
Even though he was there in the Europa League.
he didn't do much i mean he did a lot in the
group stages but i know i agree that in the circles
you run in similarly son is like quite rated
highly right yeah but outside of excuse me the
other way around you said he's underrated yeah
no i mean i think he's generally underrated because
i think he should be spoken of as one of the
best premier league wingers of his generation
i think it's just that he probably came around
in the generation where It was the best, the
hardest. I think you had Salah, you had Mane,
you had the City wingers, Sani. Bernardo was
on the wing at the time as well. Sterling, Mahrez.
Sterling played for both clubs. You had Eden
Hazard. It was a tough time for him, but I think
overall he's on the same level as some of those
players for me. He doesn't get spoken of in the
same regard. Are we done with that? Okay. My
number four is Chris Wood. Burnley were holding
on for dear life to Premier League status. They
were like finishing 17th every year, just slightly
surviving the drop. And for four consecutive
seasons, he scored 10 goals, which is a phenomenal
return for a player at that level. just you know
avoiding relegation and his goals contributed
to saving that that team from relegation quite
a lot and then when he went to a bigger team
in nottingham forest he put up 14 and 20 goal
seasons which showed that he could make the step
up given better players around him so yeah i
just think uh chris wood supremely underrated
for yeah i mean the players i mean for like the
last I guess as long as he's been in the Premier
League almost as long as he's fit he's usually
in the top five or six scores in the league which
is crazy sometimes you feel he keeps teams up
on his own you know like with his goal contributions
especially so I think even in some of the games
against the against whoever he's played for When
Arsenal have played him, he's been one of the
most tricky forwards for any of our centre -halves
to mark. Whether they were the ones who weren't
so good, Mustafi and Socrates, or whether it's
Gabriel and Saliba, I think we've generally had
a tough time against Chris Wood. I would agree
with that. I didn't think of him, but coming
to think of it, I would actually also probably
include him at number four. so who is your number
four my number four was purely based off i don't
think he's necessarily underrated but i just
think uh his peak is not spoken about as it should
be because i went for mostly like players at
their peak as well that was my judgment and i
think his Last season at Tottenham and his first
season at Man United were two of the best seasons
I've seen from a striker in the Premier League.
So I'll put Dimitar Berbatov at number four.
But again, I think he's generally appreciated.
I just don't think the way he's spoken about,
like I think he should be, those two seasons,
in terms of the individual quality, I still don't
think we've seen a player with that much poise
as an attacker in the Premier League, you know.
He could do it all at walking pace. In 07 or
08, he did a lot of work as well that went under
the radar for Ronaldo and Rooney. I think Ronaldo
and Rooney got all the plaudits. But a lot of
people reflect back on him being the best player
in that period, the most important player. A
bit like Firmino, you know? My number three is
Jared Bowen. I knew it was coming. A player I
absolutely adore. And I've said multiple times
we should replace Mohamed Salah with Jared Bowen.
I usually get laughed at, but... I know what's
true in my heart. He regularly puts up double
-digit goal and assist numbers in an extremely
average West Ham team. He's a big game player.
He scored in the Conference League final, as
well as regularly against the big six teams.
So I just don't see, not a weakness, but I just
don't see why people don't rate him as, you know,
let's say, in this generation, behind Salah.
In terms of a Premier League winger? Yes. between
let's say the year 2020 and 2026 as an Arsenal
fan I assume you would bring up Saka yeah obviously
I would say Saka's better I mean I wouldn't necessarily
say Palmer's better because of consistency but
I think Palmer's first season at Chelsea was
better than I think even if Bowen potentially
hits a peak and stays there i don't think he
can reach that level either but i don't i agree
with you that he's underrated based on everything
you've mentioned i don't think necessarily that
he's one of the the best wingers of his generation
like you said so i say you for me you personally
overrate him but i think generally he's an underrated
player all right The thing I forgot to mention
with Santi Cazorla as well is that Bowen doesn't
get recognition for the national team. And I
genuinely believe this, not rage bait or whatever,
I think he should be starting right wing for
England at the next World Cup, just based on
form. Based on form, currently, I would agree.
I think he's the most in form right winger England
have right now. Frankly, the three behind Kane
would be Anthony Gordon, Morgan Rogers, Jared
Bowen, which is... A crazy thing to say because
none of them play for the big six teams, but
that's just my opinion on it. I mean, Morgan
Rodgers has fallen off quite a lot, like in the
second half of the season. I would agree that
his goal scoring has fallen off, but his, you
know, carries into the box, his general play
has stayed the same level. It's only the goals
that have dropped off. Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I mean, but who goes out then? Oh. Palmer,
Saka, Foden, Bellingham, they can all fuck off.
No, I don't think Morgan Rodgers is anywhere
close to Bellingham. Alright, two each their
own. But yes, Jared Bowen, what is your number
three? My number three was... I mean, I only
watched him for like two full seasons, but purely
this is a personal decision because he's one
of the players that made me fall in love with
football. So I'm not sure about the context of
his whole career. But when I used to pick up
a ball and kick it in the backyard, I used to
want to be like him. So number three for me was
Dre Dre Okotra. Oh, wow. I didn't know that.
I mean, you've never brought him up before. So
this is very interesting. And I do not recall
watching him play. So this is, again, very interesting.
So continue, yes? Yeah, I mean, he was my dad's
favorite player. So I think my dad propagandized
me. But it was like his favorite player until
Ronaldinho came along. So that's the type of
football that my dad likes, if you're wondering.
Then his next favorite player after that was
Messi and Neymar. He has a type. Yeah, I think
he just, I don't know what his decisions were
behind the career choices he made. I think he
wanted to be a Bolton legend, but he rejected
Arsenal, he rejected Chelsea. I think he rejected
Man United, if I'm not mistaken. So I don't exactly
know why he wanted to stay at Bolton, but a lot
of, I think even there was a coach reflecting
back on it. I don't remember who it was. Maybe
a former player, maybe they were a player at
the time, but they said he was comfortably one
of the best midfielders that they'd played against.
I think a lot of people have said that he was
the trickiest player to play against. So I think
also Gilberto Silva said when he played against
him for Arsenal, it was the most difficult game
he'd had. I think there was a game he scored
a brace against Arsenal. One of the goals is
still... Like a famous meme because he lobbed
it over the defender's head and then he lobbed
it back again. I don't remember who the defender
was. I think that's the second time an Arsenal
player got memed like that. I'm glad Trossard
did it to Foden so we got our revenge. I'm not
exactly sure. I think a lot of people who've
reflected back on that time, a lot of players
of that time speak of him as one of the best
players of that generation in England. I wish
he went to a bigger club. It's like one of those
players who's underrated purely because I think
if he had gone, if he had taken a bigger move,
he might have platformed his talent better. But
at the same time, I think his relationship with
Bolton off the pitch, he's done a lot of business
with them. It's served him well in his life.
He seems to be a player off the football that's
managed his money well, which is rare for some
players coming from. From Africa, especially
when they get to Europe, it's been like a trend
of, especially South African footballers, we
see them here. When they come back, I mean, they
struggle to keep the money. I don't know what
the reasons are behind it, but I'm sure it's
like a lifestyle thing. So I think I would call
him underrated purely because he's one of my
favorite players. You forgot to say the phrase,
he was so nice they named him twice. Which is
the number one thing people used to say about
him when I was younger. My number two is Kieran
Trippier. So it's really unfortunate once again
that he came up in the era with Kyle Walker,
Rhys James and Trent Alexander -Arnold. Because
I genuinely think he's the best and most balanced
of the four. So for example, Walker was a pace
merchant. James is a hospital patient. And Trent
is a bad defender. but because he never challenged
for big titles and he played for the smaller
clubs, he was never in the conversations I think
he ought to be in. I think he's in the running
for best right back in the history of the league.
I don't know. I feel like two ways of Trippier.
I would have agreed, maybe, but I watched him
at Atletico a lot. That's where I watched him
the most, and he was really bad there. I don't
know. We're basing it on the Premier League,
right? So I'm only basing it on what I've seen.
I mean, he was also, I'd say, a bit like Son.
He was probably the underrated player from Tottenham's,
I guess, spell, the Pochettino era, if we call
it that, when they were competing for things.
So, I mean, I could agree with that statement.
Like, I would say he's the most balanced of the
four. I'd agree. I'd say he also is... the most
traditional I think that was the other thing
that affected him probably that it was a time
where traditional fullbacks and traditional wingers
were probably like a bit out of fashion I feel
like now they're coming back into fashion maybe
Trippier being younger now would have been like
a right back like you said who would be the perfect
right back I think for like a system like Mikel
Arteta I think he would like a probably a prime
Trippier you know that's very much similar to
what Ben White is when he can stay fit you know
So, yeah, I would agree that he's underrated.
He didn't make my list either. But I would agree
with you that definitely Kieran Trippier probably,
I wouldn't say he's the greatest right back in
Premier League history. Who would you say is?
Just a quick one. For me, I would probably say
Trent. All right. Your number two? My number
two was actually from the Chelsea team, was Michael
Essien. I think those two seasons when they went
back -to -back, I think until we saw probably
Kante. at Chelsea and Leicester maybe like a
decade later or maybe a decade and a half later
I don't think we'd seen or yeah probably a decade
later I don't think we'd seen a player play the
defensive midfield role in a way where you actually
wondered like how do you break how do you play
through them you know like every time I think
Arsenal were known for being at the time the
best team at playing through teams you know playing
through the center of the pitch. And I think
the one team we always struggled, probably in
the era of where I think we were just coming
out of our invincible spell as well. Most people
at that time thought Arsenal had the best team
in the world, you know. And I think there were
games, almost every game we played against them,
where he overran our midfield completely by himself,
you know. I think he made Balak and Lampard look
a lot better than they were. That's my opinion.
I think in those two seasons. Yeah, it was incredible.
I think he was one of the best defensive midfielders
in Premier League history in my mind. I'd say
Trespiha Nkante for me and Rodri now. Yeah, anything
else you want to say about Michael Essien? Because
I don't really... Like, I do remember him playing,
but I don't recall watching Chelsea that often
at that time. I think they were the team that
I really expected us to, as a kid even, everyone
was talking the reason i started supporting arsenal
was honestly like because i wanted to be the
person who got to brag every week and i think
i started supporting football in 04 and arsenal
haven't won the league since wow so i chose to
support the winners we haven't won since that's
very unfortunate all right uh my number one Similarly
to your number two is a guy named Michael, and
he played the CDM role. But it's Michael Carrick.
Oh, he's my number one. Yes. So it's both our
number one. Yeah. All right. So I think the position
of defensive midfield as a whole is underrated.
Because until very recently, the casual fan didn't
realize how important it actually is. And not
just the casual fan. Quite infamously, when Florentino
Perez sold Makalele to Chelsea, Zidane said,
Quote, why put another layer of gold on the Bentley
when you're losing the entire engine? End quote.
Alright, so Carrick is on my list on his own
terms because he never got a look in for the
England squad, similarly to the other people
on my list. When, in my opinion, he should have
been the first name on the team sheet. Not in
terms of quality, in terms of profile. I think,
yeah, in terms of consistency as well, I think.
Especially, I recall his last season at Tottenham
as well, I think. he was probably the most consistent
midfielder in in the premier league at the time
by a long way in terms of i guess you could guarantee
like you were speaking earlier of david silver
obviously different positions but i think with
michael carrick you guarantee him to do a certain
thing every game and be able to sustain a certain
amount of control for your team, which I think
was also very underrated, you know. So I think
it's difficult to quantify a defensive midfielder's
contributions. But if you actually watch Carrick,
he was the closest thing to Busquets that England
ever produced. Yeah, I'd agree. So, yeah, Carrick,
my number one. Your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I
think one of the best passes in Premier League
history as well. I think definitely underrated.
Like, he had any pass in his locker, I think.
diagonals, two passes, short, long. I think that's
something a lot of Alex Ferguson's players, maybe
even Paul Scholes, I wouldn't obviously, I'm
not talking about him as underrated, but I'll
say that he doesn't really platform passes in
a way where you get the most out of their talent.
I guess we see that now, like maybe with a coach
like Guardiola, where, oh, okay, you can imagine
what Carrick would have been like under Guardiola
if you're watching someone like Rodri, you know,
because... the scope of his talent is utilized
better than when the team is constantly playing
on the transition you know so I think it's like
it's hard to see it's like another one of those
players that made my list because yes he did
peak and he won everything but at the same time
like you said Would have been nice to see him
play around better players. Not that Man United
weren't one of the best teams in the world, but
around players, like you said, similar to maybe
Xavi and Nesta. Maybe Modric Cruz, if he had
gone there. You never know. I don't think, obviously,
whether he would have been better than Casemiro
or not is a different debate, but I feel like...
Well, he would have been too old by then, I think.
No, no, no. I'm saying hypothetically, like putting
him in a scenario where he's in an elite midfield,
not necessarily of his time, but where... where
his talent can shine better. So I guess he's
also one of those players where, maybe even in
Arsenal, as an individual, because purely...
But I don't think Wenger would have utilised
him as well as Ferguson out of possession. My
thing is that I think his passing, specifically
at Man United, just like Paul Scholes, was underutilised.
I would think maybe like Andre Pirlo, maybe like
a deep -lying playmaker. Yeah, exactly. He could
spray the ball. uh so you just put like two eights
who could run in front of him and then yeah let
him like spread the ball yeah use his talent
better you know let him do it like uh the same
like you said like busquets let him build up
more let him join let him beat the press more
just stop using him as the same way you would
uh i guess like makalele you know they're different
type of players so well it just you know coincidence
we had the same number one But that just goes
to show he's, like, kind of undisputed as the
most underrated. That, like, you know, people,
quote -unquote, in the know, the people who know,
know. And the casuals, they forgot about him.
Or if they even recognized him as one of the
best. I mean, it's strange because obviously
now we don't, neither of us really rate him as
a coach. Well, those are two different jobs,
you know. Two completely different things. No,
but I'm saying now he's back under the microscope.
People mustn't necessarily confuse his coaching
ability with his playing ability. He was a world
-class player, I think, definitely. In my mind,
CDM is the most important position. So having
a good player there, that's where your whole
team starts. That's how I would build a team.
Yeah, I mean, it's easy. I mean, we've seen with
Man City recently, when Rodri's out for large
spells, their form is like night and day sometimes.
I can imagine also if Arsenal were to lose Rice,
I mean obviously Rice is playing as an 8 but
I think out of possession he still functions
as our 6 so it's like... I agree with you. It's
probably the most important position to build
a team around or to have a team function. But
it's also the hardest position to find quality
in my eyes. Absolutely. You want to move on now
to the top five most overrated players in Premier
League history. My number two was Alexis Sanchez.
Oh, shit. I didn't realize. You didn't do your
number two. Yeah. If we need to mention that.
Because we skipped straight past it. My bad.
Your number two, Alexis Sanchez? Yeah, purely
because I think obviously he's very highly rated
amongst Arsenal fans. But I think for three seasons
he had ridiculous numbers of goals and assists
playing in probably one of, if not the most dysfunctional
team of the pitch in the league at the time.
I think... Coaches, staff chopping and changing,
players just... I think at one point we had 42
players on the roster before Arteta came in.
Just couldn't sell anyone, couldn't ship anyone
on. Playing in an attack with players that, you
know... It's either youth players or players
being chopped around, I think, at times. The
only reason we made the Champions League or even
didn't sink into becoming a mid -table team was
probably Alexis Sanchez. I know a lot of people
talk about Mesut Ozil, but I think Mesut Ozil
had one really good season at Arsenal. I think
that's all I can recall. I just imagine if you
had put an Alexis Sanchez in his prime years
in a top team. Obviously, he went to Man United.
It didn't work out. I don't think they were a
top team at the time anyway. I think they were
fading away. If he had chosen to sign with Pep
instead of us at the time when Pep wanted to
sign him, I feel like his contribution in Man
City gets appreciated way more. That was a spite
signing. And I love a spite signing. Because
it never goes right. For example, Harry Maguire,
Man City wanted to buy him. Man United came in
and did a spite signing. Alexis Sanchez, Man
City wanted him. Man United came in and did a
spite signing. Cristiano Ronaldo I don't believe
that this is true but apparently Man City wanted
him Man United came in and did a spite signing
so that's how it is United love to be like oh
City want them alright let's get them and it
very rarely works out if ever yeah I mean that's
like I think generally being spiteful doesn't
work out so that's just a bit of life advice
I guess but yeah I mean I think with Alexis Sanchez
in terms of A winger, the amount of goals and
assists he used to get. I mean, Salah's now blown
him out the water, so it doesn't seem normal,
or it seems more normal. But until that stage,
I think he was very much putting up numbers that
I think he was just playing in a completely terrible
Arsenal team. As a football fan, you'd wish he'd
gone somewhere else. As an Arsenal fan, I'm glad
he carried us through those years. So that's
why I don't hate him to this day, even though
he went to Man United. Alright, top five most
overrated players in Premier League history.
Do you want to start with this one and then we'll
do that? Yeah, this will get people's blood boiling.
But obviously, we don't mean anything personal,
as we said. Oh, I do. Yeah, I mean, obviously,
you can mean something personal, but I mean,
we don't mean anything personal to you, the listener.
Oh, the listener. Okay, yes, no. We're not invalidating
your opinion if you believe something different,
you know. as we say all the time, comment, let
us know if you disagree. But yeah, I mean, my
number five, as an Arsenal fan, probably going
to annoy some people, but I think retrospectively,
people talking of him as one of the best wingers
in Premier League history, people talking about
him as one of the Premier League greats, as one
of the greatest players in Premier League history,
that's what makes him overrated for me personally
in that I think there's a lot of better wingers
we've seen. in recent times that don't get the
same recognition as him purely maybe because
they didn't play in the invincibles but it's
robert perez you know i would say a top winger
potentially world -class in his time but i would
definitely say overrated in terms of the way
he's regarded in the premier league as one of
the best wingers or one of the best left -wingers
to play in the league you know i'm gonna be honest
with you i very rarely hear his name pop up in
those conversations so I'm going to have to disagree
about the general feeling towards him. Because
when people bring up that Invincibles team, they
bring up Henri Bergkamp. No, Bergkamp hardly
played the Invincibles season. Okay, maybe not
the Invincibles. I'm just talking about Arsenal.
The Invincibles team, it's generally him, Vieira
and Henri. Alright, my mistake then. I've seen
him in quite a few top 20 lists of Premier League
players as well. Alright, carry on making your
case. No, but again, I still love him as an Arsenal
player. I just think he's slightly overrated.
I don't think, for example, I'd say Leroy Sané
was a better winger, had a higher peak than him.
I think Leroy Sané in the Centurion season was
unplayable when he was good. I don't think Robert
Pires was ever unplayable. Who's better, Heung
-Min Son or Robert Pires? Son. I think if you
put Son in that Arsenal team, maybe we win the
Champions League. Who knows? Alright. My number
five is Jordan Henderson. So, I'm saying this
purely because he won the Football Rights Association
Footballer of the Year, which is an award with
some prestige, you know? It's just not some...
Some bullshit, you know. The narrative of the
time was that the whole Liverpool team was so
good that nobody could choose who to give it
to. So they gave it to the captain of the team.
And that's one of the worst decisions and worst
things that I've ever heard in my life. Let's
give it to somebody who doesn't deserve it because
they're the captain of a team of people who do
deserve it. Even though, what is it, Van Dijk
and the front three had sensational seasons.
Most of the team, the fullbacks, Alisson. Yeah,
I'm just talking about like from a casual fan
perspective, like you said, I'm sure the casual
fans watching it thinking, how does Henderson
win it over Mane, Salah, Firmino? I think the
football writers were trying to be kind of too
clever. Or pro -British. That could be another
thing as well. They just wanted to be like, oh,
you, the casual fan, what you're not seeing is
actually, Brian, Not Brian. His middle name is
Brian. Jordan Henderson. Brian Henderson. That's
where Jordan Henderson comes and hits us up.
Yeah. Hi, guys. It's Brian. Like, who's this?
All right, let's invite him over. We invite him
over. He comes in and he starts beating us up.
Fucks us up. But yes, I just never rated him.
One of the most overrated players I've ever seen
in my life, especially within the Liverpool fan
base. They'll make any excuse for him to prop
him up. I was going to say that probably a large
percentage of Liverpool fans would be in complete
conjecture to you. Of course, yes. They believe
he's one of the most underrated. And a bunch
of fucking idiots, of course. Of course they
would say that. I mean, that was kind of what
I brought up Robert Pires for. I don't have any
animosity to Pires, though. I have animosity
because, honestly, now it's a very difficult
profile to get. But I've always maintained that.
The whole thing was that Jordan Henderson will
run the hard yards. And my point was, we can
get a guy who runs the hard yards but also has
technique. And that guy, his name is Sabotslai.
If we had Sabotslai during the years of Henderson,
we would have won. many, many more trophies.
I'll say that. At least three. Yeah, definitely.
I agree. I think Sabozla and Declan Rice are
the best midfielders in the Premier League currently.
The same thing I was saying with Alexis Sanchez.
I guess if you put him in place of Robert Pires,
perhaps the Invincibles can go to the next level.
I agree with what you're saying. I do agree that
Jordan Henderson is overrated by the British
press. when they talk about him being one of
the most efficient or important players of his
generation i disagree as well completely i do
see the value of what he did in terms of i see
the value of the position yeah exactly but why
does he have to be the yeah no i mean i see the
value of like in terms of uh his functionality
as a runner you know like i think that's what
club mostly used him for like his ability to
press and close down space so i think in a way
it did sometimes especially in like the champions
league moments free the bigger players up sometimes
obviously sometimes it had the opposite effect
but i could see that the athleticism is what
probably people can confuse for someone being
a good player sometimes you know yes the last
point i want to make with him is his overrated
leadership qualities because we won the league
as soon as he left This idea that he's some unparalleled
leader of men that... And then he got traced
out of Ajax for having a shit attitude. You ran
away from Saudi. He ran away from Ajax. Yeah.
That's all I have to say about Jordan Henderson.
Jordan Brian Henderson. Your number four? My
number four pick? I don't know if he would be
on your list as well. But for me, I think also,
you know, a lot of... I don't harbor any jealousy
towards Man United for their achievements in
terms of jealousy as a fan. Like, okay, you wish
you'd won as much as them. But no jealousy in
terms of their football project. So this is not
coming from that perspective. But I think Kerry
Neville is the most overrated defender in the
history of the league. And I think he's number
four on my list. The league was weak at the time.
Like I said, the best left winger most people
regarded was Robert Pires. I don't think he was
particularly an elite footballer. Again, similar
to Jordan Henderson. Whenever I watched him,
it's more his running power, his athleticism
that got praised. Won two Champions Leagues,
some people would say that matters. But again,
I don't think he was an important part of either.
That's just my opinion. Man United could have
been better off without him. Gary Neville is
my number four. I just think he's an overrated
fullback. Maybe part of it is because of how
he is outside as a pundit or as a person, but
I don't think that really affects it. I find
him funny. I actually like his character, even
though he's rage -baity. We said we're not about
the rage -bait. I think he's probably one of
the most overrated defenders, generally speaking,
that I've ever seen. i've ever seen because generally
when people talk about the greatest premier league
right back they almost always put him at the
top of the list and i'm like no i'm not sure
how much i agree with you because and to be fair
i didn't watch him a lot so i'm you know i don't
have a good basis to speak about him but i think
he did what he did in the era that he played
in you know what i'm saying he Now, in hindsight,
we look at guys like Alexander Arnold who do
much more for the team. But in his time, he was
perfectly rated as where he should be, in my
mind. But I take your point. Anything else you
want to say about Gary Neville? No, nothing really.
I mean, that's it. Who's your number four? Similarly
to you, I have a right back that I believe is
the actual most overrated right back. Yeah, I
knew he was coming at some point anyway. No,
I don't think... I think you think it's somebody
else, but it's not. I think... Not I think. My
pick is Kyle Walker. Oh, okay. I thought it was
somebody else. You thought it was Trent, I know.
Yes. But, no. Good pick, though. Kyle Walker
is... He's truly one of the worst defenders I've
ever seen in my life. But I'd say, okay... Kyle
Walker is like the 2020s version of Gary Neville.
Sure, that could be the case. Like I said, I
didn't watch enough of Gary Neville, so I can't
comment, but that may be a spot on comparison
that I'm just, you know, have a recency bias.
That's why I'm saying Kyle Walker. But he's genuinely
one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Worse
than Trent Alexander -Arnold, if you can believe
it. But his recovery pace bailed him out every
single time. And now that he's lost a lot of
his pace playing for Burnley, we can see just
how open and just how, what's the word, like
naive he actually is. I mean, I think a lot of
the reason Pep moved to four centre -backs was
probably the trauma Kyle Walker gave him. The
amount of space he... Like, I think, you know...
His recovery pace can help you in the Premier
League and his pace over... Well, it worked out
for several years, so I could have to... I had
to hold my mouth shut until now. I think in the
biggest games, though, it affected them. That's
why they struggled to win the Champions League,
even though they were the best team in the world
for the better part of the last 10 years, you
know. I think he... Generally, if you go back
probably the games they lost against Real Madrid,
the space was probably... always being left there
like okay like you said Trent leaves a lot of
space but Trent gives you something you know
and you guys had probably the greatest centre
-back of all time alongside him so the greatest
centre -back I've seen let me not say of all
time because I know people are going to bring
up people I didn't watch but it's like yeah when
you had Van Dijk playing like that I think that
entire back four and Alisson was elevated defensively
it's a bit like Saliba now you know I think and
Gabriel so I think He doesn't give you anything.
Trent's creative bag was out of this world in
some games. So I think just like Danny Alves,
that's my excuse for Trent. But I don't think
you can make that for Kyle Walker because he
loses the ball as much as... I think more than
he wins it back, maybe. So just continuing the
conversation we had with the underrated, with
Trippier. I truly believe Trippier was a much
better player than Walker, but... you know, if
you had to ask a casual fan, they would say the
opposite. So that's why. And the last point I
want to make with Kyle Walker is kind of a bigger
point. It's not, if we look at Kyle Walker, the
archetype, right? There's other players like
him that weren't good defensively, but their
recovery pace bailed them out so much and they
won trophies. So in hindsight, it looks like
we can't. You know, so the other name that came
to mind, but I chose Kyle Walker instead, was
Rio Ferdinand. He's another guy that, once his
body gave up on him, you could see how, like,
badly he read the game. Yeah, he was, I mean,
again, probably carried by Vidic a bit, you know,
Vidic's ability to read the game. And Van der
Sar, I think Van der Sar was also one of those
keepers who peaked very late, but when he peaked,
he was like... as complete as you could expect
for the time. Obviously, now people expect keepers
to play out and stuff, but I think van der Sar
was like the closest thing to Petr Cech at the
time, you know. Alright, so that's all I have
to say about Kyle Walker. Your number three?
My number three? My number three is, well, it's
a player who, I don't know if they're overrated
or underrated, but generally, I see a lot of
pundits and a lot of... People on Twitter bring
them up as they most appreciated and most underrated
player, which is what Consequentially made me
regard him as overrated number three for me is
Musa Dembele from Tottenham When I was doing
my research, his name popped up a lot from other
people. Quote -unquote, one of the best midfielders
in Premier League history. That's what I've seen.
There's absolutely no way. It was very difficult
to get the ball off him, I'll give you that.
Yeah, he was good at keeping the ball. He was
good at progressing it to a degree. But aside
from that, he didn't have any elite traits outside
of just keeping the ball very well. Yeah, in
a lot of ways. When Tottenham used to get to
the final third, you could see Eriksen was overburdened.
Like, who else was the creator there? I mean,
Dele Alli wasn't much of a creator. Son wasn't
much of a creator. Kane had to develop the ability
to create because I think they weren't getting
it from anyone except Eriksen, you know? So it's
like, I'm just saying if Dembele's like... one
of the best number eights as people spoke about.
Shouldn't he be close to like Steven Gerrard
if you're saying he's underrated? I think most
people would agree that Steven Gerrard is probably
the most complete eight the Premier League has
seen. Obviously, you can't put everything down
to winning things, as I've said before. I think
Steven Gerrard in a better team, if Steven Gerrard
moves to Chelsea, probably wins everything. So
it's like, that's the thing. So I would say that...
Maybe I could have put Gerrard on my most underrated
list, but again, I don't think he's necessarily
underrated. I think there's more that people
say, oh, Lampard is better or Scholes is better
because they've won things, when I don't think
neither of them are close, you know. But, yeah,
it's like, I think Dembele, he just didn't have,
like, he's not like an eight. Like, you spoke
of Carzola earlier. Was he anywhere close to
Carzola? I don't think so. And I think Carzola
played eight later in his career because... That
was the most functional position for him to play
because I think Arsenal had two number 10s in
Ramsey and Mesut Ozil who couldn't play well
as an 8, you know. So it's not like he started
as a 10. I think probably Santa Corzola is everything
people say Moussa Dembele is, you know, in retrospect.
He just played in a Tottenham team that was a
lot better at the time and I think had the best
centre -back partnership in the world which helped
platform his ability to drive the ball up a lot,
you know. All right. My number three, also an
eight. His name is Frank Lampard. Now you could
just put this is maybe the one you could put
down to me having an agenda because of Gerard.
But I truly don't believe Lampard should have
been in the same conversations in the same. Yeah.
If we had honorable mentions, Lampard would have
been an honorable mention for me here. So Lampard
has better stats than Gerrard. But it totally
leaves out the fact that one, Gerrard didn't
take penalties until very late in his career.
And two, Lampard played over 100 games more than
Gerrard. So I don't want to make them verse each
other, but I'm just talking about Lampard as
a player. Inflated stats because he took all
the penalties. And let's not forget Mourinho
at the time, who was the best coach in the world,
wanted to sign Gerrard when he already had Lampard.
Yes, so the thing I wanted to mention is, when
you said Gerrard went to Chelsea and he'd win
it all, do you think that would happen or do
you think what happened at England would happen
where they try to cram in too many attackers
and it becomes dysfunctional? Well, I mean, I
think... At the time, Jose Mourinho was ahead
of everyone. Until Pep Guardiola came along,
I think he would have had the ruthlessness to
push Lampard on and he would have got the money.
We'd seen him do it with other players before.
We saw him just, I think, sign Klitschenko and
sell him the next season or a couple of seasons
or just drop him. I don't think he was the one
who sold him, but he played him for like two
months and then never played him again. I think
Mourinho would have definitely, I think if he,
at the time, His idea was that, OK, the midfield
he ended up forming, or I guess he put the foundations
in place for Real Madrid's all -conquering midfield.
I think his idea at Chelsea was the same. I don't
think Lampard platformed it the best. I think
that's why they fell short in the Champions League
as well. I think maybe if they had Gerrard, particularly
in that semi -final, where they created enough
to win the game, Barcelona just overran them
in midfield. a player like Gerrard might have
tilted the margins in Chelsea's favour because
they were definitely better coached at the time,
you know. Like I said, I don't want to make this
Lampard versus Gerrard. I mean, I would be the
neutral because, I mean, I'm not saying, like,
I like both players, you know. Like, I just think
Lampard is slightly overrated because people
are basing it purely on output. He was playing
in a team that was... Oh, yes, that's the thing
I forgot to mention. He was in a far better team
than... Yeah, he was playing in a team that was
arguably probably the best in terms of squad
depth that England had ever seen, you know. Like,
I don't think that a team had been assembled
with that much depth. And that's why they hardly
conceded any goals. I think they came one game
away from going invincible, which was a game
they had to rotate players against Sunderland.
And, yeah, I think it's just... In that team,
I feel like those two games where they could
have become treble winners, perhaps with Gerrard
they would have become treble winners, you know.
Alright. Your number two? My number two most
overrated player? Let me just confirm. My number
two most overrated player? Obviously it's a current
player. I think we both speak about him. I mean,
he's a goalkeeper. It's Jordan Pickford. I think...
Just the way he's spoken about as being one of
the best goalkeepers in the world. I think he
makes as many mistakes as shots as he stops.
He jeopardizes the team as much as he saves them.
So for me, it's more a thing of how much he's
being played, how he's being currently spoken
of. I don't think he's one of the best goalkeepers
in the world. I don't think he's anywhere close
to it. But every time you see a Premier League...
pundits speak about him. They talk about him
as having kept Everton in the game. He's keeping
them up single -handedly. I don't know if that's
the case, but I don't believe it to be so. I
think he's one of the most overrated players
I've seen in my life. I'm going to have to slightly
disagree with you. I think the casual fan recognizes
that he's a bit of a clown. Yeah, I would say
that, but then what is it with the pundits? Why
does he get all this recognition and praise?
There's British bias. they find it very difficult
to criticize an Englishman. Whereas, like, foreign
players is fair game. They can just say whatever
they want. But, yeah, you were saying... I disagree
about the over... Like, I don't think he's rated.
But if you're talking about this season, people
have been propping him up as, like, he's the
clear England number one. Yeah, I mean, I don't
know whether he is or not. I don't think... England
have many people who are nailed on as a world
-class goalkeeper right now. I think probably
the cup final, what I saw from Trafford, was
potentially better for England than anything
I've seen from Pigford. I would even just play
him now off the basis of that one performance
because I think it gives more to the team to
have a goalkeeper who can do everything. I just
feel like... like he has done in the last couple
tournaments he might pull out a stop and save
a chance but he's also going to create like a
one -on -one chance for the opposition with his
like distribution and i wouldn't mind like like
you could look at someone like courtois right
they don't have the best distribution but they
manage it well you could look at someone like
david raya who Added to like made his distribution
better piece by piece. It still doesn't necessarily
have like Edison or Allison level But he manages
it very well. He knows which passes to use My
problem with Pickford is that he tries the passes
that Allison and Edison try on a regular basis
and he keeps fucking them up. I think if he played
in the top team, you would also realize how bad
he is, just like Ramsdale. I think when Ramsdale
got Arsenal to the Champions League, everyone
was like, wow, he's such a good shot stopper.
And then when Arteta got rid of him... i kind
of understood because i'm like this guy keeps
trying to pass the ball on the ground through
the center of the pitch as if he's allison and
allison does it regularly but he executes it
almost every time ramsdale tries it seven times
and executes it once and then he keeps trying
it and trying it and trying it and pickford has
that same thing i guess when you're playing in
a lower club it can always be covered up between
because you're facing a lot of shots all the
time, so you're stopping them. And if you're
a good shot stopper, that can get people to think
you're better than you are. It's for the cameras.
A nice stop, it'll be on the front page of the
newspaper the next day. Yeah, exactly. Where
distribution and other traits are not seen. That's
why the casual fan... prefers the shot stopper
over the distributor yeah again he'll look good
in the world cup but perhaps one of the reasons
england haven't been able to make the same jump
as like france or spain despite having a quarter
squad of similar quality is probably that they
don't really have a goalkeeper that's elite they've
never had a goalkeeper that's elite you know
okay so my number two is muhammad salah so he
regularly used to get like seven eight chances
a game and score one and i'm supposed to you
know stand up and praise this when i think a
better player would get two or three uh a more
clinical player i should say and i just don't
think he was very clinical except for two seasons
or let me say one and a half incredible seasons
where everything he touched turned to gold but
the rest of his time at liverpool uh was just
so it wouldn't be two and a half No, why do you
say that? The season you guys made the Champions
League final. I mean, you didn't win anything,
but he was crazy good. Nah. For me, his first
season, that's an incredible, incredible season.
We just finished top four and we lost the Champions
League final. Yeah, that's the season I'm talking
about. That's his first season. That's a stone
cold, amazing season. The half season was last
year. Because about after Christmas, he just
stopped scoring. like he was on course to do
a 30 20 and he did like 29 18 yeah i mean but
it was like three quarters of the season i'd
still give him the bag of the whole season you
know so This episode, I know I said this is an
evergreen episode, but this episode happens to
coincide with the week that he announced that
he'll be leaving Liverpool and we're going to
be seeing him held up as the best player in the
history of the league, right? And I just don't
think that's the case. What I wanted to do for
the underrated section was to ask you a question.
Who's the best player in the history of the league?
And there is a correct answer and that... And
that correct answer is undisputed in my mind.
For me, it's KDB. So, me too. But the thing is,
I think we're in the minority when we say KDB
is the undisputed best ever player. Yeah, I mean,
it just depends on the metric of what, like,
what, like, like, I think someone can use a very
defined, like, criterion for, like, saying that,
oh, okay, this, or a very specific criterion
for saying this is what I want to be the best
player ever. Like I was saying before, if someone
wants it to be about poise or finesse, then it's
like you're looking at probably, in a Premier
League context, probably only, like, Berbatov,
Bergkamp, and maybe Thierry Henry, you know,
so. It's like, I think De Bruyne has a bit of
that. He's consistent. I mean, for most of his
career, he was hardly injured at Man City. Maybe
towards the age... I disagree with that totally.
No, I mean, I think there was... Like, he had
lots of injuries nearly every season and... It
would be like in the beginning, like the early
parts of the season, he'd have injuries, then
the back half of the season. But I think there
was like a run where he played in the Centurion
season and the next season where he played...
No, I'm not saying he was injured all the time.
I'm just saying... He had several small injuries
that would keep him out for, like, weeks. Yeah,
but I think, like, he mostly was available, you
know, which is, I think, the most important thing.
Because you could have someone potentially like
Karzola, who you were speaking about before,
but he wasn't actually available half the time.
So that's another thing that you'd have to consider
as to why he didn't get... probably maybe signed
by Man City because they were stealing all our
players at the time. Alright, we're focusing
too much on KDB. We're talking about Salah. What
did you want to say about Salah being overrated?
Do you agree? Disagree? No, I obviously disagree.
But I would put Salah in my top 10 Premier League
players of all time. I'm just saying if everyone
is holding him up as number one and I believe
his say number five, that would be overrated
to me. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't
think he's number five. I think he's in the top
ten, but I'd have to think about it. Yeah, I
mean, if you're saying, is he the greatest Premier
League player of all time? Yes. No, then I'd
say... But the thing is, a lot of people have
an argument. Yeah, I think a lot of people will
have that argument, but it would mostly come
from Liverpool fans. I know I just said he announced
his... Not retirement, him leaving the club.
And I just saw... outpouring of respect from
every fan base. Yeah, but I think that also speaks
to how good he's been. At the end of the day,
it's not like he can control how people rate
him. Sure, but my disagreement comes with the
fact that when you watch him, you watch how wasteful
he is. He could be like you watch Lewandowski,
who's not like Messi or Ronaldo, but Lewandowski
would have been far more clinical than Salah.
Yeah, but I mean, there's certain types of players
who are like that. I think the most important
thing is that he generates enough chances to
score 25 goals a season, which is crazy for a
winger. And that's another thing. It's the system
that generated those chances. It's not him being...
particularly particularly amazing or like no
but i'm saying it's like if the system says you
stand here we'll pass in this direction and you
run onto it you know but in a lot of ways he's
like a similar to the premier league version
of cristiano ronaldo you know i think he needs
to generate a lot of chances to score but it's
like and that's what i'm talking about he's just
not clinical Yeah, I don't think he's not clinical
because I think at the end of the day the numbers
speak for themselves. It's like let's put it
in a context of how many players can do that,
you know. Like I was speaking about Alexis Antlers
earlier. He's someone who's very clinical. He
got very few chances and took most of them. So
perhaps is Alexis Antlers a better footballer
than Salah though? I don't think so. Like, overall,
I still... Because you have to think of longevity
as well and, like, those kinds of things. But
in the people in the same brackets as Salah,
there's much more... Yeah, I mean, like, if you're
saying, okay, the bracket he goes into. But then
that's a very, like... I'm just comparing him
to his peers. Yeah, I wouldn't say he's overrated
or underrated. I'd say he's, like, adequately
rated for me. But that's just my opinion. Because,
like I said... I've literally heard it because
of this announcement, best ever player, Liverpool's
best ever player, which is also not true. You
know, just accolades that I totally disagree
with. But yeah, your number one? My number one,
Eden Hazard. One of the best wingers in Premier
League history, but also the way he's spoken
of. I would say is heavily, heavily inflated.
I wouldn't put him down as one of the best players
of his generation. I'd say he came in the greatest
footballing generation that I've seen. I didn't
watch every generation, but what most people,
pundits or people who've even been giving opinions
since those days, have said is the greatest generation
of footballers. And a lot of people like to include
him in the top ten. I don't think he's anywhere
near the top 10 of footballers in the same generation.
I think in Belgium, KDB outperformed him nearly
every time. I think in the Premier League, KDB
outperformed him. I think a lot of players outperformed
him in the same era. The way Chelsea fans and
the way a lot of Premier League pundits talk
of him is purely because, a bit like Bergkamp,
you know. I watched a lot of Bergkamp. I think
the thing about Bergkamp, though, and I think
Eden Hazard, is that it's hard to deny their
talents because people will say they're big game
players. I would say Bergkamp more so than Hazard
because Hazard didn't really do it in knockout
competitions. I think Bergkamp was very good
for the Netherlands, got them to two finals,
you know. alongside, I think one was alongside
Van Basten when he was the main player. Well,
another similar player is Sadio Mane. I would
put in that same kind of, what's the word, profile
as Eden Hazard. Dribbler with less output. Yeah,
but I would say even in that context, I would
have taken Mane over Hazard if you offered me
both players. I think Mane was the better player.
so another thing that i read is that eden hazard
would not take care of himself in the off season
he would just have like burgers and like fast
food and stuff so that's why he would start seasons
very slowly and then like as he built up his
fitness uh throughout the season by like halfway
through the season that's when he started to
you know like hit peak performance because he
he you know finally like worked off the extra
weight yeah and i mean Again, another thing,
you can't be one of the greatest players of your
generation, in my opinion, if you can't handle
your dream move. He went to Real Madrid and then
he says it fell apart for him or it wasn't what
he thought it was. It doesn't make sense. I think
he was already a bit like... He played in a Chelsea
team. If you look at when he won two league titles
at Chelsea, the first season, I think Nemanja
Matic and Diego Costa were as influential as
him. Could be argued either way that one of the
three of them were the most influential player
in the team. But he won player of the season.
In the second season, he won the league. I think...
Wait, when did he... What two years did he win
the league? The first Mourinho one. Yeah, and
then second? Conte. Oh, okay, okay. My mistake.
In the Conte era, I think that... Sorry, just
to interrupt you. You were saying Matic and Diego
Costa. I would also think Fabregas in that Mourinho.
Oh, yes, there's Fabregas. Sorry, I forgot. Fabregas
was a huge part of that Mourinho team, I remember.
But, yes, sorry, carry on. There's Fabregas as
well. I forgot about that. Even Andre Schürrle
had a lot of big moments off the bench that I
don't think, like... People reflect back on it
and say, act like he was a one -man team that
carried Chelsea to countless successes. If you
look at De Bruyne, even though he played in a
team that had similar talent, look at how much
he elevated them. I think Chelsea unquestionably
had a better squad than you guys. They should
have been challenging at the same level. They
should have been Manchester City's competition.
when you look at the Conte season, I think he
won playoff the season again. But for me, unquestionably,
Conte was the best. Like, if you take him out
of that team, they won the league comfortably,
but I don't think they would have won it without
Conte. I think he was the best player comfortably
in that team by a long, long way, you know. Okay,
my number one, and I just want to go back to
Salah quickly just to make a point. Salah is
a stat padder, meaning... He usually gets his
goals against the smaller teams. I'm not saying
he doesn't score against the big teams, but he'll
prioritize his goals. Okay, but while you're
making that argument, right, people will say
Eden Hazard is not a stat pattern. He shows up
in the big games. But is that the truth? You
need to do both. No, no, I'm saying is that the
truth because... For Hazard. Yeah, because...
Hazard never won the Champions League, so...
He never did. He showed up in the big games in
the league, which... Salah did technically as
well and to a greater extent so my thing is not
against not I'm not disagreeing with what you're
saying about Salah my thing is this whole idea
that Eden Hazard is a big game player like people
say oh he should be like how many I've seen so
many Chelsea fans say he's the third best talent
of that generation which is fucking ridiculous
you know he's nowhere near Neymar He's nowhere
near Luka Modric. He's nowhere near Toni Kroos.
He wouldn't be anywhere in the top 10. I mean,
we could go on enlisting the players from that
generation. We could even go to the PSG current
players, and I think they'd be better than Hazard
as well. So my thing is just that, oh, okay,
he showed up against Arsenal who were out of
form. He used to bully us. Fine. We were a terrible
team at the time. He showed up against you guys
in the Carabao Cup. A couple of games which people...
A lot of the criticism that whenever somebody
posts a comp of Hazard on Twitter, they'll say,
wow, all these highlights are from the Carabao
Cup. Yeah. Because, like, if you're thinking
about it, right, he didn't have that good a record
against Man City. He didn't have that good a
record against Manchester United. So where is
all this, like... This idea that he was better
than De Bruyne in the big games or that he was
better than Neymar, even Salah in the big games.
I just don't get where it comes from. Absolutely.
So similarly to Salah, continuing my point, we
have stat padders. And the king of the stat padders
in our league is Harry Kane. And he's the player...
I not dislike the most, who I just think is so,
so overrated. He would all the time prioritize
his goals over the team's well -being. In fact,
there was a time where he said he swore on his
daughter's life that the ball touched his head.
And they showed him a replay where it clearly
didn't touch him at all. And he said, no, I still
swear on my daughter's life. Which Erickson scored
a free kick. And Kane is claiming the goal. just
to kind of fuck over erickson and they're interviewing
erickson and erickson is like has an awkward
smile on and he's like uh yeah i think carrie
touched it you know because what else is he going
to say like no it's my goal yeah that's good
i mean So he's being forced to be professional
because Kane is being so childish. I think Ronaldo
did something similar in the last World Cup.
I would bring Ronaldo up, but most of that happened
at Real Madrid. No, no, no, I'm saying just the
incident you spoke of at the last World Cup.
I remember Bruno Fernandes got the last touch
on the header and Ronaldo was right behind him.
And then Ronaldo ran off to celebrate as if he
scored. And then the team followed him and Bruno
was like celebrating on his own. I was like,
damn, okay. All right, so that's kind of the
reason why I suspect Spurs never won a trophy
until he ran away to Bayern for a short thing
and he still lost the Bundesliga to Bayer Leverkusen.
But it's this hunger for goals. is a detriment
to the team and another guy I would point out
like that is Zlatan Ibrahimovic it would be like
pass to me I'll score pass to me I'll score but
when he left the Swedish national team they became
better and they actually qualified for the the
world cup when he they never qualified when he
was part of the team yeah and then they qualified
as soon as he left because once you have to actually
rely on the team and team play instead of passing
it to one player you become a more functional
team. And Kane kept that Spurs team dysfunctional
by saying, pass to me, pass to me. Having a function
around him. He's also that type of player. I
mean, you were saying the same thing about, I
guess you were speaking of Salah earlier. The
benefit of a player like Salah versus someone
like Kane, I guess, is that Salah's... He doesn't
always want the ball to his feet. He doesn't
always want to join the play. He does make runs
behind. He does open up space. Whether it's intentional
or not is another question. But naturally, his
inclination is towards being direct, getting
towards the goal. Whereas Harry Kane, I think,
follows the ball, follows the play. If you can
do the things Messi does or Neymar does, that's
fine. Like, OK, look, Barcelona doing it with
Lamine, it's paying off because he's a sensational
footballer who can play at all angles, play at
every area on the pitch to the same degree. But
it doesn't make sense. I think, like you were
saying in our earlier episodes, I think Bayern,
they haven't really been tested. So I think it's
kind of they've allowed the team to be built
around Harry Kane and at the time it's kind of
paying off. We'll see. Real Madrid are picking
up form against Real Madrid if maybe those things
of like centering the team around Harry Kane
if those demons come back up you know absolutely
any other people you want to bring up or talk
about before we close up this episode I mean
no one in particular I think maybe Haaland could
be another one, but I think he's just a bit young
down the path of like, obviously he is one of
the best number nines in the world. Another stat
padder. But people talking of him as the generational
talent, as the best talent of his generation.
Nah. Okay. Well, thank you for listening. Please
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