WEBVTT

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And welcome back to the PD Football Podcast.

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My name is Presh. My name is Darren. And how

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are you doing today? I'm okay, I'm okay. I'm

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feeling a bit fatigued as usual. Every week.

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It's becoming like a catchphrase now. Go print

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some t -shirts that says fatigued as usual. Fatigued

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as usual, yeah. That should be my catchphrase.

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But yeah, how is everything on your end? I'm

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great. I've caught up with Invincible. great

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show very sci -fi you know i don't know how else

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to say it like um so when i went to watch avatar

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the way of what and not the way of water uh fire

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nash um there was this idiotic person like two

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or three rows behind me who couldn't stop saying

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who couldn't stop speaking during the movie but

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the one of the which time was this the second

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time i went to watch uh with my cousin So this

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lady just spoke and spoke and spoke. But one

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thing that stuck with me is she said, I love

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how sci -fi this is. That was the one good thing

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that came of it. No, she said a lot of interesting

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things, but you're not supposed to speak in a

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theater. I went and complained. Who did you complain

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to? The theater manager. The office is just outside

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the place. Now again, because this was the second

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time I watched it, I didn't mind. taking like

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one or two minutes out of my time to go and complain

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go complain how did you complain during the movie

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yes of course what the did they tell her to keep

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quiet yes they sent an employee to come in the

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employee just stood there they spoke and then

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the guy told them hey stop speaking and then

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yeah i'll go complain i don't care like you you're

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ruining the experience for like a lot of people

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like uh if that wasn't my second time i would

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i'd be very very pissed so yeah i can imagine

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it's annoying anyway similarly invincible is

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just so sci -fi i love the concepts the ideas

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the you know the places they go to it's very

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It's very interesting. I'll probably try to check

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it out if I get the time. But my girlfriend has

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also been recommending it to me. So I should

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try to check it out at some point. No, well,

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it's not like at the top of the list. I would

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recommend other things before Invincible. But

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like, yeah, let's just... I just want to remind

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you that this is a football podcast. And... There's

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no football this week. Well, there's international

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games, but... So due to the international break,

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we're going to be doing an evergreen episode.

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That means you can listen to it at any time and

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it will still largely be how we feel. as opposed

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to our regular episodes where opinions can change

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week on week. The only rule I imposed on myself,

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because we didn't really discuss any rules for

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this, but the thing is I need to have watched

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this player in their prime. So this rules out

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a player such as Andy Cole, who I think is underrated

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based on reputation, but I only saw him for a

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few seasons at the end of his career, so I think

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it would be unfair to comment on it. if i haven't

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seen him play yeah i think i went with the same

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thing i have to at least watch like one full

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season by them andy cole just before we get into

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it i wanted to say he is like you wouldn't think

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of him as a prolific goal scorer like people

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just don't bring him up in those conversations

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but if you look at the the statistics he is the

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number five gold scorer of all time in the premier

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league he was only very recently overtaken by

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salah and if you Take away penalties, he's the

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number two goalscorer of all time in the Premier

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League, just behind Alan Shearer. That's crazy,

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yeah. I didn't know that, but I guess... That's

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why he's underrated. But again, that's just by

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reputation. We didn't. I've never seen him play,

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so I cannot... Yeah, I mean, I was probably not

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even born when he started playing. That's an

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insane record, though, so he's definitely underrated

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because I haven't heard him brought up. in any

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conversations or at least not to like the same

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degree as Alan Shearer you know yeah and he was

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a peer of Alan Shearer so and a lot of people

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didn't watch Shearer as well so and they'll bring

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Shearer up in conversations so why not Andy Cole

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I mean people could say Andy Cole won more I

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don't know what the dynamics were like at the

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time you know Andy Cole won five league titles

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and one champions league Alan Shearer won one

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league title Oh, with Blackburn, yeah. Yes. Okay,

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would you like to hear the argument against?

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And I guess this is like a trial run for when

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we actually get into the list. Yeah. The argument

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against was that, first of all, he was quite

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a lazy player. But that's not really a bad thing,

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is it? Yeah, I mean, I guess in this list, you're

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going to have a lot of things where we're just

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overlooking things that people think, oh, this

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is a drawback of this player or something, you

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know? That's normal, I guess. But, I mean, I

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didn't watch either Andy Cole or Alan Shearer.

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I mean, statistically, like you said, maybe it

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appears that Andy Cole probably is more prolific

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or had a period where I think generally at some

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point he was the most prolific in Premier League

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history in terms of... I think Jamie Vardy beat

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him, right? The most consecutive game scored

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or something. Or Ruud van Nistelrooy as well.

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But there's some record he held that was pretty

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impressive of... goals per game i think i don't

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know if it was over a course of one season or

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something i think it was most goals and assists

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combined in the season and that was just overtaken

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by salah oh okay yeah in the previous last year

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oh yeah that's what i'm saying i didn't even

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know he was in i just thought of him as like

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an out and out number nine so i didn't know he

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got a lot of assists in any season so then well

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it's mainly his goals and then you know like

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how harlan gets assists yeah just because he's

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like in the vicinity of like the danger zone

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he'll just pass it to somebody like one meter

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away and they'll finish it off yeah so similarly

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now again i didn't watch him week to week but

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that's the impression i got while i was doing

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my research of andy cole but kudos to andy cole

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i guess if we had watched him he could have made

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the list so another i don't want to say a rule

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but just something i kind of live by in my life

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is there's no rage bait on this list right these

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are genuine opinions even if you think they're

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unbelievably wrong no one on my list will put

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there to seek attention or cause people to get

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angry or you know like it's a shame that i have

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to say that out loud but there are a lot of people

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who do it you know to cause controversy or to

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court controversy so that yeah i think it's all

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about the context like i mean people would think

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Maybe, oh, okay, you're age -baiting by saying

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this player, but then that's just what I believe

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in the context of how that player is generally

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spoken of. I'm not necessarily, if someone's

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on the overrated list, I'm not necessarily saying

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they're not a top -class player. And if someone's

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on the underrated list, I'm not necessarily saying

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they're better than anyone who's on the overrated

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list. It's just in the context of how their game

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is appreciated. All right. So, if you don't mind,

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can we start with the underrated list? My underrated

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list. Well, this is what I thought we'd do, right?

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We'd throw back to each other. So, I start with

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five, you're five. My four, you're four. My three,

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you're three. But let's say, for example, my

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five is your two. Yeah. I bring it up first.

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You will, you know, give your points. Bring it

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up at a different point. No, no, no. You bring

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it up at the same time as me. oh okay you get

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what i'm saying yeah then we'll have one clear

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discussion about that player we don't split it

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up into so who's your number five uh so just

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before we start i just want to give a bonus because

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as i was doing my research for this episode the

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name i kept seeing pop up was dennis irwin I've

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literally never, not never heard that name, I've

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heard that name. I've heard of him, but I can't

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even recall watching one game of his. Yes, so

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like Andy Cole, he played before my time, so

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I can't comment on him, but I very rarely hear

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him discussed by older football fans. He was

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a fullback and he's not in the fullback conversations

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that you hear all the time. So yeah, just a quick

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bonus. If you did watch Dennis Owen. We didn't

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leave him off because we hate him, you know.

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Yeah. Number five, Santi Cazorla. So unfortunately,

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injuries robbed Arsenal of an incredible player.

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But in the short time that I saw him, I was amazed

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by his quality. And very unfortunately, he was

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in the same era as David Silva, who himself is

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underrated, but doesn't make this list because,

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you know, he's quite well known. Yeah, I mean,

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for my number five, I went... Wait, wait, wait.

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Just let's discuss Cazorla. I didn't put him

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on the... No, no, just your thoughts. I would

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say he's an underrated player, generally speaking,

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but he didn't make my list, mostly because I

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think amongst Arsenal fans, the circles that

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I'm consuming information in, he's very highly

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regarded. Sure, but I think when I made my list,

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I was more thinking about the casual fan, what

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the casual fan thinks, and I just don't think

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the casual fan looks back at that era and thinks,

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oh, Cazorla was, you know, Yeah, I'd say he probably...

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He came before the era which I'd say was the

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best Premier League era, slightly before it.

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At least he had his prime then. So I would say...

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Perhaps if he was in Chelsea or Man City at that

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time, he might have gotten better appreciation.

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But he definitely was one of the best midfielders

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in the league at the time. I think while he was

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playing, people acknowledged that quite readily.

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Like, oh, okay, he's Arsenal's best player. Most

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of the time, people acknowledge that. So I think

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it's more, like you said, in retrospect, he's

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underappreciated. Maybe a little bit underrated.

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But definitely one of my favorite players, I

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think. I would love him in the modern Arsenal

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team, I think. Especially, I think, him instead

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of Odegaard would be a big upgrade for me. Not

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that I'm throwing Odegaard under the bus, but

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I think he was also... It's just to speak to

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Cazorla's quality. Quality, and how good he was

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out of possession as well, because I think that's

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the best part of Odegaard's game. I recall a

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game against Man City when, in the season, they

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won the league. I don't remember if it was under

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Pellegrini or Mancini, but... I think Kozola

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had an incredible game defensively. And we beat

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them 2 -0. But it was the first time we beat

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a big team in a long, long time under Wenger.

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Maybe like three or four seasons. And that was

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still one of the best individual displays I've

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seen from an Arsenal player. Okay, you're number

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five. My number five I went with purely because

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I think obviously in terms of his output. I think

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he had one of the best output. My number five

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is Heung -Min Son. from Tottenham. I think statistically

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and in terms of his output, he should be spoken

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of as one of the best wingers in the history

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of the league. But I don't think he ever gets

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mentioned in that regard. Could be because Tottenham

00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:27.759
hasn't won anything. Does that fall on him? Does

00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:30.559
that fall on Harry Kane? But I think in that

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team, people usually speak of Harry Kane, Moussa

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Dembele, Christian Eriksen. Of all the players

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there, even Dele Alli gets more mention than

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him. So I would put Son as my number five. I

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don't know how much I agree with that. I think

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the casual fan recognizes how good Son is. I

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don't think so. I don't think even when people

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reflect back on it now, I think I see mostly

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Dembele or Kane propaganda 85 % of the time.

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I don't really see people talking about Son.

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Even though he was there in the Europa League.

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he didn't do much i mean he did a lot in the

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group stages but i know i agree that in the circles

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you run in similarly son is like quite rated

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highly right yeah but outside of excuse me the

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other way around you said he's underrated yeah

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no i mean i think he's generally underrated because

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i think he should be spoken of as one of the

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best premier league wingers of his generation

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i think it's just that he probably came around

00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:31.080
in the generation where It was the best, the

00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:32.980
hardest. I think you had Salah, you had Mane,

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you had the City wingers, Sani. Bernardo was

00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.620
on the wing at the time as well. Sterling, Mahrez.

00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.879
Sterling played for both clubs. You had Eden

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Hazard. It was a tough time for him, but I think

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overall he's on the same level as some of those

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players for me. He doesn't get spoken of in the

00:12:51.820 --> 00:12:55.879
same regard. Are we done with that? Okay. My

00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:59.870
number four is Chris Wood. Burnley were holding

00:12:59.870 --> 00:13:02.669
on for dear life to Premier League status. They

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were like finishing 17th every year, just slightly

00:13:05.830 --> 00:13:09.029
surviving the drop. And for four consecutive

00:13:09.029 --> 00:13:12.190
seasons, he scored 10 goals, which is a phenomenal

00:13:12.190 --> 00:13:17.220
return for a player at that level. just you know

00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:19.740
avoiding relegation and his goals contributed

00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:23.159
to saving that that team from relegation quite

00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.500
a lot and then when he went to a bigger team

00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:28.519
in nottingham forest he put up 14 and 20 goal

00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:31.500
seasons which showed that he could make the step

00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:35.740
up given better players around him so yeah i

00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:38.179
just think uh chris wood supremely underrated

00:13:38.179 --> 00:13:41.889
for yeah i mean the players i mean for like the

00:13:41.889 --> 00:13:44.230
last I guess as long as he's been in the Premier

00:13:44.230 --> 00:13:47.529
League almost as long as he's fit he's usually

00:13:47.529 --> 00:13:49.750
in the top five or six scores in the league which

00:13:49.750 --> 00:13:52.750
is crazy sometimes you feel he keeps teams up

00:13:52.750 --> 00:13:55.590
on his own you know like with his goal contributions

00:13:55.590 --> 00:13:58.610
especially so I think even in some of the games

00:13:58.610 --> 00:14:02.590
against the against whoever he's played for When

00:14:02.590 --> 00:14:04.429
Arsenal have played him, he's been one of the

00:14:04.429 --> 00:14:07.149
most tricky forwards for any of our centre -halves

00:14:07.149 --> 00:14:09.169
to mark. Whether they were the ones who weren't

00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:11.950
so good, Mustafi and Socrates, or whether it's

00:14:11.950 --> 00:14:14.029
Gabriel and Saliba, I think we've generally had

00:14:14.029 --> 00:14:16.929
a tough time against Chris Wood. I would agree

00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:21.350
with that. I didn't think of him, but coming

00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:23.289
to think of it, I would actually also probably

00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:26.710
include him at number four. so who is your number

00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:29.789
four my number four was purely based off i don't

00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:32.289
think he's necessarily underrated but i just

00:14:32.289 --> 00:14:36.029
think uh his peak is not spoken about as it should

00:14:36.029 --> 00:14:38.970
be because i went for mostly like players at

00:14:38.970 --> 00:14:41.350
their peak as well that was my judgment and i

00:14:41.350 --> 00:14:44.450
think his Last season at Tottenham and his first

00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.610
season at Man United were two of the best seasons

00:14:47.610 --> 00:14:49.409
I've seen from a striker in the Premier League.

00:14:49.490 --> 00:14:51.409
So I'll put Dimitar Berbatov at number four.

00:14:51.850 --> 00:14:53.990
But again, I think he's generally appreciated.

00:14:54.389 --> 00:14:57.870
I just don't think the way he's spoken about,

00:14:58.090 --> 00:14:59.970
like I think he should be, those two seasons,

00:15:00.009 --> 00:15:03.029
in terms of the individual quality, I still don't

00:15:03.029 --> 00:15:05.710
think we've seen a player with that much poise

00:15:05.710 --> 00:15:07.950
as an attacker in the Premier League, you know.

00:15:08.549 --> 00:15:12.519
He could do it all at walking pace. In 07 or

00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.759
08, he did a lot of work as well that went under

00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.299
the radar for Ronaldo and Rooney. I think Ronaldo

00:15:17.299 --> 00:15:19.179
and Rooney got all the plaudits. But a lot of

00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:21.960
people reflect back on him being the best player

00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.840
in that period, the most important player. A

00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.240
bit like Firmino, you know? My number three is

00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.220
Jared Bowen. I knew it was coming. A player I

00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:33.779
absolutely adore. And I've said multiple times

00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:36.519
we should replace Mohamed Salah with Jared Bowen.

00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.850
I usually get laughed at, but... I know what's

00:15:39.850 --> 00:15:42.289
true in my heart. He regularly puts up double

00:15:42.289 --> 00:15:44.649
-digit goal and assist numbers in an extremely

00:15:44.649 --> 00:15:47.470
average West Ham team. He's a big game player.

00:15:47.690 --> 00:15:50.289
He scored in the Conference League final, as

00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:52.389
well as regularly against the big six teams.

00:15:52.669 --> 00:15:56.070
So I just don't see, not a weakness, but I just

00:15:56.070 --> 00:15:59.049
don't see why people don't rate him as, you know,

00:15:59.049 --> 00:16:03.250
let's say, in this generation, behind Salah.

00:16:03.990 --> 00:16:08.399
In terms of a Premier League winger? Yes. between

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.840
let's say the year 2020 and 2026 as an Arsenal

00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.779
fan I assume you would bring up Saka yeah obviously

00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:18.779
I would say Saka's better I mean I wouldn't necessarily

00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:23.080
say Palmer's better because of consistency but

00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.080
I think Palmer's first season at Chelsea was

00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.289
better than I think even if Bowen potentially

00:16:29.289 --> 00:16:31.389
hits a peak and stays there i don't think he

00:16:31.389 --> 00:16:33.970
can reach that level either but i don't i agree

00:16:33.970 --> 00:16:35.889
with you that he's underrated based on everything

00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:39.830
you've mentioned i don't think necessarily that

00:16:39.830 --> 00:16:43.429
he's one of the the best wingers of his generation

00:16:43.429 --> 00:16:47.250
like you said so i say you for me you personally

00:16:47.250 --> 00:16:50.429
overrate him but i think generally he's an underrated

00:16:50.429 --> 00:16:54.200
player all right The thing I forgot to mention

00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.539
with Santi Cazorla as well is that Bowen doesn't

00:16:57.539 --> 00:17:00.240
get recognition for the national team. And I

00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.399
genuinely believe this, not rage bait or whatever,

00:17:02.620 --> 00:17:05.079
I think he should be starting right wing for

00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.180
England at the next World Cup, just based on

00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:09.140
form. Based on form, currently, I would agree.

00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.500
I think he's the most in form right winger England

00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:15.140
have right now. Frankly, the three behind Kane

00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:18.500
would be Anthony Gordon, Morgan Rogers, Jared

00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:21.660
Bowen, which is... A crazy thing to say because

00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:24.720
none of them play for the big six teams, but

00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.299
that's just my opinion on it. I mean, Morgan

00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:30.460
Rodgers has fallen off quite a lot, like in the

00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:32.720
second half of the season. I would agree that

00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.599
his goal scoring has fallen off, but his, you

00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:38.140
know, carries into the box, his general play

00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:41.000
has stayed the same level. It's only the goals

00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:44.180
that have dropped off. Do you get what I'm saying?

00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:48.250
Yeah, I mean, but who goes out then? Oh. Palmer,

00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:51.730
Saka, Foden, Bellingham, they can all fuck off.

00:17:52.390 --> 00:17:55.910
No, I don't think Morgan Rodgers is anywhere

00:17:55.910 --> 00:17:58.390
close to Bellingham. Alright, two each their

00:17:58.390 --> 00:18:01.789
own. But yes, Jared Bowen, what is your number

00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:05.309
three? My number three was... I mean, I only

00:18:05.309 --> 00:18:07.509
watched him for like two full seasons, but purely

00:18:07.509 --> 00:18:10.069
this is a personal decision because he's one

00:18:10.069 --> 00:18:11.789
of the players that made me fall in love with

00:18:11.789 --> 00:18:15.450
football. So I'm not sure about the context of

00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:19.579
his whole career. But when I used to pick up

00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:22.539
a ball and kick it in the backyard, I used to

00:18:22.539 --> 00:18:24.900
want to be like him. So number three for me was

00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.279
Dre Dre Okotra. Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:32.230
I mean, you've never brought him up before. So

00:18:32.230 --> 00:18:35.730
this is very interesting. And I do not recall

00:18:35.730 --> 00:18:39.049
watching him play. So this is, again, very interesting.

00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:42.150
So continue, yes? Yeah, I mean, he was my dad's

00:18:42.150 --> 00:18:46.190
favorite player. So I think my dad propagandized

00:18:46.190 --> 00:18:47.910
me. But it was like his favorite player until

00:18:47.910 --> 00:18:50.450
Ronaldinho came along. So that's the type of

00:18:50.450 --> 00:18:52.170
football that my dad likes, if you're wondering.

00:18:52.809 --> 00:18:55.150
Then his next favorite player after that was

00:18:55.150 --> 00:19:00.269
Messi and Neymar. He has a type. Yeah, I think

00:19:00.269 --> 00:19:03.130
he just, I don't know what his decisions were

00:19:03.130 --> 00:19:05.950
behind the career choices he made. I think he

00:19:05.950 --> 00:19:08.829
wanted to be a Bolton legend, but he rejected

00:19:08.829 --> 00:19:11.549
Arsenal, he rejected Chelsea. I think he rejected

00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:14.569
Man United, if I'm not mistaken. So I don't exactly

00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:17.890
know why he wanted to stay at Bolton, but a lot

00:19:17.890 --> 00:19:21.650
of, I think even there was a coach reflecting

00:19:21.650 --> 00:19:24.640
back on it. I don't remember who it was. Maybe

00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.740
a former player, maybe they were a player at

00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:29.920
the time, but they said he was comfortably one

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.880
of the best midfielders that they'd played against.

00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:33.680
I think a lot of people have said that he was

00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.519
the trickiest player to play against. So I think

00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.059
also Gilberto Silva said when he played against

00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:41.980
him for Arsenal, it was the most difficult game

00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:43.799
he'd had. I think there was a game he scored

00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.680
a brace against Arsenal. One of the goals is

00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.779
still... Like a famous meme because he lobbed

00:19:49.779 --> 00:19:51.559
it over the defender's head and then he lobbed

00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:53.299
it back again. I don't remember who the defender

00:19:53.299 --> 00:19:55.619
was. I think that's the second time an Arsenal

00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.779
player got memed like that. I'm glad Trossard

00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:03.759
did it to Foden so we got our revenge. I'm not

00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.559
exactly sure. I think a lot of people who've

00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:09.559
reflected back on that time, a lot of players

00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.000
of that time speak of him as one of the best

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.230
players of that generation in England. I wish

00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.109
he went to a bigger club. It's like one of those

00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:19.230
players who's underrated purely because I think

00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:22.369
if he had gone, if he had taken a bigger move,

00:20:22.549 --> 00:20:24.789
he might have platformed his talent better. But

00:20:24.789 --> 00:20:28.769
at the same time, I think his relationship with

00:20:28.769 --> 00:20:31.069
Bolton off the pitch, he's done a lot of business

00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:33.150
with them. It's served him well in his life.

00:20:33.210 --> 00:20:36.130
He seems to be a player off the football that's

00:20:36.130 --> 00:20:38.250
managed his money well, which is rare for some

00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:41.180
players coming from. From Africa, especially

00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:45.420
when they get to Europe, it's been like a trend

00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:47.559
of, especially South African footballers, we

00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.900
see them here. When they come back, I mean, they

00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:52.880
struggle to keep the money. I don't know what

00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.119
the reasons are behind it, but I'm sure it's

00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.180
like a lifestyle thing. So I think I would call

00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.079
him underrated purely because he's one of my

00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:04.900
favorite players. You forgot to say the phrase,

00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:10.609
he was so nice they named him twice. Which is

00:21:10.609 --> 00:21:12.490
the number one thing people used to say about

00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:16.329
him when I was younger. My number two is Kieran

00:21:16.329 --> 00:21:19.450
Trippier. So it's really unfortunate once again

00:21:19.450 --> 00:21:21.690
that he came up in the era with Kyle Walker,

00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:24.589
Rhys James and Trent Alexander -Arnold. Because

00:21:24.589 --> 00:21:27.930
I genuinely think he's the best and most balanced

00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:31.009
of the four. So for example, Walker was a pace

00:21:31.009 --> 00:21:34.470
merchant. James is a hospital patient. And Trent

00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:37.819
is a bad defender. but because he never challenged

00:21:37.819 --> 00:21:41.039
for big titles and he played for the smaller

00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.559
clubs, he was never in the conversations I think

00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:46.359
he ought to be in. I think he's in the running

00:21:46.359 --> 00:21:48.359
for best right back in the history of the league.

00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:51.700
I don't know. I feel like two ways of Trippier.

00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:54.619
I would have agreed, maybe, but I watched him

00:21:54.619 --> 00:21:56.500
at Atletico a lot. That's where I watched him

00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:00.220
the most, and he was really bad there. I don't

00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:03.230
know. We're basing it on the Premier League,

00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:05.650
right? So I'm only basing it on what I've seen.

00:22:06.829 --> 00:22:10.230
I mean, he was also, I'd say, a bit like Son.

00:22:10.369 --> 00:22:13.069
He was probably the underrated player from Tottenham's,

00:22:13.069 --> 00:22:16.890
I guess, spell, the Pochettino era, if we call

00:22:16.890 --> 00:22:20.170
it that, when they were competing for things.

00:22:20.289 --> 00:22:21.990
So, I mean, I could agree with that statement.

00:22:22.809 --> 00:22:25.710
Like, I would say he's the most balanced of the

00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:29.259
four. I'd agree. I'd say he also is... the most

00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.319
traditional I think that was the other thing

00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.180
that affected him probably that it was a time

00:22:34.180 --> 00:22:36.480
where traditional fullbacks and traditional wingers

00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.079
were probably like a bit out of fashion I feel

00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:41.059
like now they're coming back into fashion maybe

00:22:41.059 --> 00:22:43.920
Trippier being younger now would have been like

00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.880
a right back like you said who would be the perfect

00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:48.980
right back I think for like a system like Mikel

00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:50.940
Arteta I think he would like a probably a prime

00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:54.079
Trippier you know that's very much similar to

00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.160
what Ben White is when he can stay fit you know

00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:58.079
So, yeah, I would agree that he's underrated.

00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:01.240
He didn't make my list either. But I would agree

00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.500
with you that definitely Kieran Trippier probably,

00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:05.960
I wouldn't say he's the greatest right back in

00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:07.519
Premier League history. Who would you say is?

00:23:07.779 --> 00:23:10.519
Just a quick one. For me, I would probably say

00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.339
Trent. All right. Your number two? My number

00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:17.779
two was actually from the Chelsea team, was Michael

00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:21.039
Essien. I think those two seasons when they went

00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.799
back -to -back, I think until we saw probably

00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.220
Kante. at Chelsea and Leicester maybe like a

00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:31.599
decade later or maybe a decade and a half later

00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.019
I don't think we'd seen or yeah probably a decade

00:23:35.019 --> 00:23:37.500
later I don't think we'd seen a player play the

00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.720
defensive midfield role in a way where you actually

00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.799
wondered like how do you break how do you play

00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.619
through them you know like every time I think

00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:46.880
Arsenal were known for being at the time the

00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.890
best team at playing through teams you know playing

00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:51.430
through the center of the pitch. And I think

00:23:51.430 --> 00:23:54.190
the one team we always struggled, probably in

00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:56.369
the era of where I think we were just coming

00:23:56.369 --> 00:23:58.930
out of our invincible spell as well. Most people

00:23:58.930 --> 00:24:00.710
at that time thought Arsenal had the best team

00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.250
in the world, you know. And I think there were

00:24:03.250 --> 00:24:05.589
games, almost every game we played against them,

00:24:05.650 --> 00:24:08.089
where he overran our midfield completely by himself,

00:24:08.329 --> 00:24:11.009
you know. I think he made Balak and Lampard look

00:24:11.009 --> 00:24:12.849
a lot better than they were. That's my opinion.

00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:17.720
I think in those two seasons. Yeah, it was incredible.

00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:20.460
I think he was one of the best defensive midfielders

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:22.319
in Premier League history in my mind. I'd say

00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:28.119
Trespiha Nkante for me and Rodri now. Yeah, anything

00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.180
else you want to say about Michael Essien? Because

00:24:31.180 --> 00:24:34.119
I don't really... Like, I do remember him playing,

00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:38.279
but I don't recall watching Chelsea that often

00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.140
at that time. I think they were the team that

00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:44.849
I really expected us to, as a kid even, everyone

00:24:44.849 --> 00:24:47.289
was talking the reason i started supporting arsenal

00:24:47.289 --> 00:24:50.829
was honestly like because i wanted to be the

00:24:50.829 --> 00:24:53.450
person who got to brag every week and i think

00:24:53.450 --> 00:24:56.390
i started supporting football in 04 and arsenal

00:24:56.390 --> 00:25:00.809
haven't won the league since wow so i chose to

00:25:00.809 --> 00:25:04.869
support the winners we haven't won since that's

00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:11.190
very unfortunate all right uh my number one Similarly

00:25:11.190 --> 00:25:13.769
to your number two is a guy named Michael, and

00:25:13.769 --> 00:25:17.470
he played the CDM role. But it's Michael Carrick.

00:25:17.809 --> 00:25:21.809
Oh, he's my number one. Yes. So it's both our

00:25:21.809 --> 00:25:24.710
number one. Yeah. All right. So I think the position

00:25:24.710 --> 00:25:27.289
of defensive midfield as a whole is underrated.

00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:30.789
Because until very recently, the casual fan didn't

00:25:30.789 --> 00:25:33.589
realize how important it actually is. And not

00:25:33.589 --> 00:25:36.869
just the casual fan. Quite infamously, when Florentino

00:25:36.869 --> 00:25:39.890
Perez sold Makalele to Chelsea, Zidane said,

00:25:40.299 --> 00:25:43.000
Quote, why put another layer of gold on the Bentley

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.579
when you're losing the entire engine? End quote.

00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:50.819
Alright, so Carrick is on my list on his own

00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:53.019
terms because he never got a look in for the

00:25:53.019 --> 00:25:54.859
England squad, similarly to the other people

00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.640
on my list. When, in my opinion, he should have

00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.759
been the first name on the team sheet. Not in

00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.380
terms of quality, in terms of profile. I think,

00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:04.720
yeah, in terms of consistency as well, I think.

00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:07.980
Especially, I recall his last season at Tottenham

00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.650
as well, I think. he was probably the most consistent

00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:13.130
midfielder in in the premier league at the time

00:26:13.130 --> 00:26:16.650
by a long way in terms of i guess you could guarantee

00:26:16.650 --> 00:26:18.650
like you were speaking earlier of david silver

00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:20.769
obviously different positions but i think with

00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:23.450
michael carrick you guarantee him to do a certain

00:26:23.450 --> 00:26:26.500
thing every game and be able to sustain a certain

00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.420
amount of control for your team, which I think

00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.440
was also very underrated, you know. So I think

00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.000
it's difficult to quantify a defensive midfielder's

00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:36.720
contributions. But if you actually watch Carrick,

00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:39.119
he was the closest thing to Busquets that England

00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:43.339
ever produced. Yeah, I'd agree. So, yeah, Carrick,

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.359
my number one. Your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I

00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:48.819
think one of the best passes in Premier League

00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:50.799
history as well. I think definitely underrated.

00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:52.839
Like, he had any pass in his locker, I think.

00:26:54.220 --> 00:26:56.420
diagonals, two passes, short, long. I think that's

00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:58.799
something a lot of Alex Ferguson's players, maybe

00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.779
even Paul Scholes, I wouldn't obviously, I'm

00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:03.799
not talking about him as underrated, but I'll

00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.839
say that he doesn't really platform passes in

00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:08.619
a way where you get the most out of their talent.

00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.819
I guess we see that now, like maybe with a coach

00:27:10.819 --> 00:27:13.680
like Guardiola, where, oh, okay, you can imagine

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.559
what Carrick would have been like under Guardiola

00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.480
if you're watching someone like Rodri, you know,

00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.859
because... the scope of his talent is utilized

00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:23.019
better than when the team is constantly playing

00:27:23.019 --> 00:27:27.220
on the transition you know so I think it's like

00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:29.599
it's hard to see it's like another one of those

00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.480
players that made my list because yes he did

00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.160
peak and he won everything but at the same time

00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.690
like you said Would have been nice to see him

00:27:37.690 --> 00:27:40.309
play around better players. Not that Man United

00:27:40.309 --> 00:27:42.450
weren't one of the best teams in the world, but

00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:44.869
around players, like you said, similar to maybe

00:27:44.869 --> 00:27:47.609
Xavi and Nesta. Maybe Modric Cruz, if he had

00:27:47.609 --> 00:27:50.190
gone there. You never know. I don't think, obviously,

00:27:50.329 --> 00:27:53.430
whether he would have been better than Casemiro

00:27:53.430 --> 00:27:55.650
or not is a different debate, but I feel like...

00:27:55.650 --> 00:27:57.710
Well, he would have been too old by then, I think.

00:27:57.750 --> 00:27:59.769
No, no, no. I'm saying hypothetically, like putting

00:27:59.769 --> 00:28:02.549
him in a scenario where he's in an elite midfield,

00:28:02.670 --> 00:28:05.900
not necessarily of his time, but where... where

00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:08.740
his talent can shine better. So I guess he's

00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:11.380
also one of those players where, maybe even in

00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:14.539
Arsenal, as an individual, because purely...

00:28:14.539 --> 00:28:16.720
But I don't think Wenger would have utilised

00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.940
him as well as Ferguson out of possession. My

00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:23.440
thing is that I think his passing, specifically

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.480
at Man United, just like Paul Scholes, was underutilised.

00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.859
I would think maybe like Andre Pirlo, maybe like

00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:32.759
a deep -lying playmaker. Yeah, exactly. He could

00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.519
spray the ball. uh so you just put like two eights

00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:39.359
who could run in front of him and then yeah let

00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.640
him like spread the ball yeah use his talent

00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.019
better you know let him do it like uh the same

00:28:45.019 --> 00:28:46.799
like you said like busquets let him build up

00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:48.920
more let him join let him beat the press more

00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.019
just stop using him as the same way you would

00:28:52.019 --> 00:28:54.180
uh i guess like makalele you know they're different

00:28:54.180 --> 00:28:59.339
type of players so well it just you know coincidence

00:28:59.339 --> 00:29:01.839
we had the same number one But that just goes

00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.380
to show he's, like, kind of undisputed as the

00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.900
most underrated. That, like, you know, people,

00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.019
quote -unquote, in the know, the people who know,

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.559
know. And the casuals, they forgot about him.

00:29:13.579 --> 00:29:16.119
Or if they even recognized him as one of the

00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:18.539
best. I mean, it's strange because obviously

00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:22.059
now we don't, neither of us really rate him as

00:29:22.059 --> 00:29:25.279
a coach. Well, those are two different jobs,

00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:26.740
you know. Two completely different things. No,

00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.900
but I'm saying now he's back under the microscope.

00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.160
People mustn't necessarily confuse his coaching

00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.779
ability with his playing ability. He was a world

00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:41.519
-class player, I think, definitely. In my mind,

00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.140
CDM is the most important position. So having

00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:47.099
a good player there, that's where your whole

00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:49.619
team starts. That's how I would build a team.

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.779
Yeah, I mean, it's easy. I mean, we've seen with

00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:55.119
Man City recently, when Rodri's out for large

00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:57.279
spells, their form is like night and day sometimes.

00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:02.220
I can imagine also if Arsenal were to lose Rice,

00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:04.099
I mean obviously Rice is playing as an 8 but

00:30:04.099 --> 00:30:05.900
I think out of possession he still functions

00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:09.660
as our 6 so it's like... I agree with you. It's

00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:11.859
probably the most important position to build

00:30:11.859 --> 00:30:14.240
a team around or to have a team function. But

00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.220
it's also the hardest position to find quality

00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:20.920
in my eyes. Absolutely. You want to move on now

00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:23.920
to the top five most overrated players in Premier

00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:27.299
League history. My number two was Alexis Sanchez.

00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:30.160
Oh, shit. I didn't realize. You didn't do your

00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.309
number two. Yeah. If we need to mention that.

00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:36.690
Because we skipped straight past it. My bad.

00:30:36.930 --> 00:30:39.269
Your number two, Alexis Sanchez? Yeah, purely

00:30:39.269 --> 00:30:41.730
because I think obviously he's very highly rated

00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:45.069
amongst Arsenal fans. But I think for three seasons

00:30:45.069 --> 00:30:47.630
he had ridiculous numbers of goals and assists

00:30:47.630 --> 00:30:50.950
playing in probably one of, if not the most dysfunctional

00:30:50.950 --> 00:30:53.970
team of the pitch in the league at the time.

00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:58.690
I think... Coaches, staff chopping and changing,

00:30:58.990 --> 00:31:01.730
players just... I think at one point we had 42

00:31:01.730 --> 00:31:04.190
players on the roster before Arteta came in.

00:31:04.230 --> 00:31:06.329
Just couldn't sell anyone, couldn't ship anyone

00:31:06.329 --> 00:31:11.069
on. Playing in an attack with players that, you

00:31:11.069 --> 00:31:13.329
know... It's either youth players or players

00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:15.980
being chopped around, I think, at times. The

00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:18.119
only reason we made the Champions League or even

00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:20.880
didn't sink into becoming a mid -table team was

00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.779
probably Alexis Sanchez. I know a lot of people

00:31:22.779 --> 00:31:25.539
talk about Mesut Ozil, but I think Mesut Ozil

00:31:25.539 --> 00:31:28.519
had one really good season at Arsenal. I think

00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:31.420
that's all I can recall. I just imagine if you

00:31:31.420 --> 00:31:33.680
had put an Alexis Sanchez in his prime years

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.720
in a top team. Obviously, he went to Man United.

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.519
It didn't work out. I don't think they were a

00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.420
top team at the time anyway. I think they were

00:31:40.420 --> 00:31:44.319
fading away. If he had chosen to sign with Pep

00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:46.420
instead of us at the time when Pep wanted to

00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:49.880
sign him, I feel like his contribution in Man

00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.740
City gets appreciated way more. That was a spite

00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.960
signing. And I love a spite signing. Because

00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.700
it never goes right. For example, Harry Maguire,

00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:03.680
Man City wanted to buy him. Man United came in

00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:06.660
and did a spite signing. Alexis Sanchez, Man

00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:09.160
City wanted him. Man United came in and did a

00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.720
spite signing. Cristiano Ronaldo I don't believe

00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.960
that this is true but apparently Man City wanted

00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.640
him Man United came in and did a spite signing

00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:23.000
so that's how it is United love to be like oh

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:26.140
City want them alright let's get them and it

00:32:26.140 --> 00:32:29.680
very rarely works out if ever yeah I mean that's

00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.660
like I think generally being spiteful doesn't

00:32:32.660 --> 00:32:35.700
work out so that's just a bit of life advice

00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:38.839
I guess but yeah I mean I think with Alexis Sanchez

00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:42.200
in terms of A winger, the amount of goals and

00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.519
assists he used to get. I mean, Salah's now blown

00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.339
him out the water, so it doesn't seem normal,

00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:49.480
or it seems more normal. But until that stage,

00:32:49.539 --> 00:32:53.319
I think he was very much putting up numbers that

00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.680
I think he was just playing in a completely terrible

00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:00.579
Arsenal team. As a football fan, you'd wish he'd

00:33:00.579 --> 00:33:02.500
gone somewhere else. As an Arsenal fan, I'm glad

00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:04.259
he carried us through those years. So that's

00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:06.000
why I don't hate him to this day, even though

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.049
he went to Man United. Alright, top five most

00:33:10.049 --> 00:33:12.430
overrated players in Premier League history.

00:33:12.549 --> 00:33:14.829
Do you want to start with this one and then we'll

00:33:14.829 --> 00:33:17.950
do that? Yeah, this will get people's blood boiling.

00:33:19.150 --> 00:33:21.390
But obviously, we don't mean anything personal,

00:33:21.430 --> 00:33:24.490
as we said. Oh, I do. Yeah, I mean, obviously,

00:33:24.490 --> 00:33:26.230
you can mean something personal, but I mean,

00:33:26.230 --> 00:33:28.789
we don't mean anything personal to you, the listener.

00:33:28.809 --> 00:33:31.210
Oh, the listener. Okay, yes, no. We're not invalidating

00:33:31.210 --> 00:33:32.990
your opinion if you believe something different,

00:33:33.130 --> 00:33:35.900
you know. as we say all the time, comment, let

00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:39.299
us know if you disagree. But yeah, I mean, my

00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.700
number five, as an Arsenal fan, probably going

00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:45.359
to annoy some people, but I think retrospectively,

00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:47.900
people talking of him as one of the best wingers

00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:49.940
in Premier League history, people talking about

00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:53.279
him as one of the Premier League greats, as one

00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.559
of the greatest players in Premier League history,

00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:57.920
that's what makes him overrated for me personally

00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.759
in that I think there's a lot of better wingers

00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.839
we've seen. in recent times that don't get the

00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:06.240
same recognition as him purely maybe because

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:08.380
they didn't play in the invincibles but it's

00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:11.980
robert perez you know i would say a top winger

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:14.519
potentially world -class in his time but i would

00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:18.199
definitely say overrated in terms of the way

00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:20.320
he's regarded in the premier league as one of

00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.280
the best wingers or one of the best left -wingers

00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:25.260
to play in the league you know i'm gonna be honest

00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:28.559
with you i very rarely hear his name pop up in

00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.250
those conversations so I'm going to have to disagree

00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:36.889
about the general feeling towards him. Because

00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:38.929
when people bring up that Invincibles team, they

00:34:38.929 --> 00:34:42.590
bring up Henri Bergkamp. No, Bergkamp hardly

00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:45.489
played the Invincibles season. Okay, maybe not

00:34:45.489 --> 00:34:47.110
the Invincibles. I'm just talking about Arsenal.

00:34:47.369 --> 00:34:49.610
The Invincibles team, it's generally him, Vieira

00:34:49.610 --> 00:34:55.349
and Henri. Alright, my mistake then. I've seen

00:34:55.349 --> 00:34:58.349
him in quite a few top 20 lists of Premier League

00:34:58.349 --> 00:35:02.349
players as well. Alright, carry on making your

00:35:02.349 --> 00:35:05.530
case. No, but again, I still love him as an Arsenal

00:35:05.530 --> 00:35:09.250
player. I just think he's slightly overrated.

00:35:09.769 --> 00:35:14.510
I don't think, for example, I'd say Leroy Sané

00:35:14.510 --> 00:35:16.510
was a better winger, had a higher peak than him.

00:35:16.650 --> 00:35:20.530
I think Leroy Sané in the Centurion season was

00:35:20.530 --> 00:35:22.889
unplayable when he was good. I don't think Robert

00:35:22.889 --> 00:35:25.889
Pires was ever unplayable. Who's better, Heung

00:35:25.889 --> 00:35:29.340
-Min Son or Robert Pires? Son. I think if you

00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:31.460
put Son in that Arsenal team, maybe we win the

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:35.840
Champions League. Who knows? Alright. My number

00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.559
five is Jordan Henderson. So, I'm saying this

00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:42.260
purely because he won the Football Rights Association

00:35:42.260 --> 00:35:47.820
Footballer of the Year, which is an award with

00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:50.039
some prestige, you know? It's just not some...

00:35:50.300 --> 00:35:53.119
Some bullshit, you know. The narrative of the

00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.739
time was that the whole Liverpool team was so

00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:58.079
good that nobody could choose who to give it

00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.679
to. So they gave it to the captain of the team.

00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.199
And that's one of the worst decisions and worst

00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:06.619
things that I've ever heard in my life. Let's

00:36:06.619 --> 00:36:08.920
give it to somebody who doesn't deserve it because

00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:12.039
they're the captain of a team of people who do

00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:16.059
deserve it. Even though, what is it, Van Dijk

00:36:16.059 --> 00:36:18.739
and the front three had sensational seasons.

00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.559
Most of the team, the fullbacks, Alisson. Yeah,

00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:26.820
I'm just talking about like from a casual fan

00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:29.480
perspective, like you said, I'm sure the casual

00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.139
fans watching it thinking, how does Henderson

00:36:32.139 --> 00:36:35.440
win it over Mane, Salah, Firmino? I think the

00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:37.960
football writers were trying to be kind of too

00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:41.059
clever. Or pro -British. That could be another

00:36:41.059 --> 00:36:44.420
thing as well. They just wanted to be like, oh,

00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.179
you, the casual fan, what you're not seeing is

00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:50.300
actually, Brian, Not Brian. His middle name is

00:36:50.300 --> 00:36:54.440
Brian. Jordan Henderson. Brian Henderson. That's

00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:57.159
where Jordan Henderson comes and hits us up.

00:36:57.260 --> 00:37:02.420
Yeah. Hi, guys. It's Brian. Like, who's this?

00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:04.760
All right, let's invite him over. We invite him

00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:06.519
over. He comes in and he starts beating us up.

00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:11.679
Fucks us up. But yes, I just never rated him.

00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:14.659
One of the most overrated players I've ever seen

00:37:14.659 --> 00:37:16.780
in my life, especially within the Liverpool fan

00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:20.280
base. They'll make any excuse for him to prop

00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.280
him up. I was going to say that probably a large

00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:26.460
percentage of Liverpool fans would be in complete

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:29.400
conjecture to you. Of course, yes. They believe

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.420
he's one of the most underrated. And a bunch

00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:34.050
of fucking idiots, of course. Of course they

00:37:34.050 --> 00:37:35.590
would say that. I mean, that was kind of what

00:37:35.590 --> 00:37:37.369
I brought up Robert Pires for. I don't have any

00:37:37.369 --> 00:37:39.889
animosity to Pires, though. I have animosity

00:37:39.889 --> 00:37:42.349
because, honestly, now it's a very difficult

00:37:42.349 --> 00:37:45.389
profile to get. But I've always maintained that.

00:37:45.769 --> 00:37:48.489
The whole thing was that Jordan Henderson will

00:37:48.489 --> 00:37:51.369
run the hard yards. And my point was, we can

00:37:51.369 --> 00:37:54.030
get a guy who runs the hard yards but also has

00:37:54.030 --> 00:37:56.969
technique. And that guy, his name is Sabotslai.

00:37:57.250 --> 00:38:00.369
If we had Sabotslai during the years of Henderson,

00:38:00.710 --> 00:38:04.610
we would have won. many, many more trophies.

00:38:04.610 --> 00:38:07.630
I'll say that. At least three. Yeah, definitely.

00:38:07.690 --> 00:38:10.070
I agree. I think Sabozla and Declan Rice are

00:38:10.070 --> 00:38:11.949
the best midfielders in the Premier League currently.

00:38:12.190 --> 00:38:14.889
The same thing I was saying with Alexis Sanchez.

00:38:15.050 --> 00:38:17.829
I guess if you put him in place of Robert Pires,

00:38:17.969 --> 00:38:21.230
perhaps the Invincibles can go to the next level.

00:38:21.409 --> 00:38:24.849
I agree with what you're saying. I do agree that

00:38:24.849 --> 00:38:28.030
Jordan Henderson is overrated by the British

00:38:28.030 --> 00:38:31.309
press. when they talk about him being one of

00:38:31.309 --> 00:38:34.329
the most efficient or important players of his

00:38:34.329 --> 00:38:37.429
generation i disagree as well completely i do

00:38:37.429 --> 00:38:40.409
see the value of what he did in terms of i see

00:38:40.409 --> 00:38:43.349
the value of the position yeah exactly but why

00:38:43.349 --> 00:38:46.389
does he have to be the yeah no i mean i see the

00:38:46.389 --> 00:38:50.349
value of like in terms of uh his functionality

00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:52.690
as a runner you know like i think that's what

00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:54.989
club mostly used him for like his ability to

00:38:54.989 --> 00:38:57.969
press and close down space so i think in a way

00:38:57.969 --> 00:39:01.579
it did sometimes especially in like the champions

00:39:01.579 --> 00:39:04.719
league moments free the bigger players up sometimes

00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.019
obviously sometimes it had the opposite effect

00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:10.460
but i could see that the athleticism is what

00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:13.159
probably people can confuse for someone being

00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.559
a good player sometimes you know yes the last

00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.480
point i want to make with him is his overrated

00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.920
leadership qualities because we won the league

00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.929
as soon as he left This idea that he's some unparalleled

00:39:24.929 --> 00:39:26.809
leader of men that... And then he got traced

00:39:26.809 --> 00:39:31.809
out of Ajax for having a shit attitude. You ran

00:39:31.809 --> 00:39:35.130
away from Saudi. He ran away from Ajax. Yeah.

00:39:35.530 --> 00:39:37.789
That's all I have to say about Jordan Henderson.

00:39:38.349 --> 00:39:41.469
Jordan Brian Henderson. Your number four? My

00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:45.050
number four pick? I don't know if he would be

00:39:45.050 --> 00:39:48.050
on your list as well. But for me, I think also,

00:39:48.210 --> 00:39:54.170
you know, a lot of... I don't harbor any jealousy

00:39:54.170 --> 00:39:57.050
towards Man United for their achievements in

00:39:57.050 --> 00:40:01.869
terms of jealousy as a fan. Like, okay, you wish

00:40:01.869 --> 00:40:03.849
you'd won as much as them. But no jealousy in

00:40:03.849 --> 00:40:05.949
terms of their football project. So this is not

00:40:05.949 --> 00:40:08.590
coming from that perspective. But I think Kerry

00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:11.190
Neville is the most overrated defender in the

00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:13.949
history of the league. And I think he's number

00:40:13.949 --> 00:40:18.300
four on my list. The league was weak at the time.

00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.739
Like I said, the best left winger most people

00:40:20.739 --> 00:40:23.800
regarded was Robert Pires. I don't think he was

00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:28.079
particularly an elite footballer. Again, similar

00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.380
to Jordan Henderson. Whenever I watched him,

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:32.500
it's more his running power, his athleticism

00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:37.300
that got praised. Won two Champions Leagues,

00:40:37.300 --> 00:40:39.059
some people would say that matters. But again,

00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:41.940
I don't think he was an important part of either.

00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.769
That's just my opinion. Man United could have

00:40:45.769 --> 00:40:48.909
been better off without him. Gary Neville is

00:40:48.909 --> 00:40:52.369
my number four. I just think he's an overrated

00:40:52.369 --> 00:40:56.130
fullback. Maybe part of it is because of how

00:40:56.130 --> 00:40:59.730
he is outside as a pundit or as a person, but

00:40:59.730 --> 00:41:01.650
I don't think that really affects it. I find

00:41:01.650 --> 00:41:04.050
him funny. I actually like his character, even

00:41:04.050 --> 00:41:05.989
though he's rage -baity. We said we're not about

00:41:05.989 --> 00:41:09.630
the rage -bait. I think he's probably one of

00:41:09.630 --> 00:41:12.210
the most overrated defenders, generally speaking,

00:41:12.489 --> 00:41:15.519
that I've ever seen. i've ever seen because generally

00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:17.739
when people talk about the greatest premier league

00:41:17.739 --> 00:41:19.820
right back they almost always put him at the

00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:23.659
top of the list and i'm like no i'm not sure

00:41:23.659 --> 00:41:27.840
how much i agree with you because and to be fair

00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.679
i didn't watch him a lot so i'm you know i don't

00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:35.239
have a good basis to speak about him but i think

00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:39.099
he did what he did in the era that he played

00:41:39.099 --> 00:41:42.639
in you know what i'm saying he Now, in hindsight,

00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:45.420
we look at guys like Alexander Arnold who do

00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:49.880
much more for the team. But in his time, he was

00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:53.300
perfectly rated as where he should be, in my

00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:57.840
mind. But I take your point. Anything else you

00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:00.179
want to say about Gary Neville? No, nothing really.

00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.960
I mean, that's it. Who's your number four? Similarly

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.739
to you, I have a right back that I believe is

00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:10.219
the actual most overrated right back. Yeah, I

00:42:10.219 --> 00:42:12.400
knew he was coming at some point anyway. No,

00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:14.199
I don't think... I think you think it's somebody

00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:18.280
else, but it's not. I think... Not I think. My

00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:21.219
pick is Kyle Walker. Oh, okay. I thought it was

00:42:21.219 --> 00:42:22.880
somebody else. You thought it was Trent, I know.

00:42:22.940 --> 00:42:26.300
Yes. But, no. Good pick, though. Kyle Walker

00:42:26.300 --> 00:42:29.179
is... He's truly one of the worst defenders I've

00:42:29.179 --> 00:42:32.170
ever seen in my life. But I'd say, okay... Kyle

00:42:32.170 --> 00:42:35.130
Walker is like the 2020s version of Gary Neville.

00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:38.710
Sure, that could be the case. Like I said, I

00:42:38.710 --> 00:42:41.570
didn't watch enough of Gary Neville, so I can't

00:42:41.570 --> 00:42:44.190
comment, but that may be a spot on comparison

00:42:44.190 --> 00:42:47.269
that I'm just, you know, have a recency bias.

00:42:47.389 --> 00:42:50.090
That's why I'm saying Kyle Walker. But he's genuinely

00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:52.789
one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Worse

00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:54.710
than Trent Alexander -Arnold, if you can believe

00:42:54.710 --> 00:42:57.809
it. But his recovery pace bailed him out every

00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:00.920
single time. And now that he's lost a lot of

00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.880
his pace playing for Burnley, we can see just

00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:08.559
how open and just how, what's the word, like

00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:11.280
naive he actually is. I mean, I think a lot of

00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:15.099
the reason Pep moved to four centre -backs was

00:43:15.099 --> 00:43:18.179
probably the trauma Kyle Walker gave him. The

00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:21.239
amount of space he... Like, I think, you know...

00:43:21.690 --> 00:43:23.449
His recovery pace can help you in the Premier

00:43:23.449 --> 00:43:26.010
League and his pace over... Well, it worked out

00:43:26.010 --> 00:43:29.349
for several years, so I could have to... I had

00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:33.510
to hold my mouth shut until now. I think in the

00:43:33.510 --> 00:43:36.150
biggest games, though, it affected them. That's

00:43:36.150 --> 00:43:37.849
why they struggled to win the Champions League,

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:39.989
even though they were the best team in the world

00:43:39.989 --> 00:43:42.090
for the better part of the last 10 years, you

00:43:42.090 --> 00:43:45.650
know. I think he... Generally, if you go back

00:43:45.650 --> 00:43:47.550
probably the games they lost against Real Madrid,

00:43:47.869 --> 00:43:50.679
the space was probably... always being left there

00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:52.679
like okay like you said Trent leaves a lot of

00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.179
space but Trent gives you something you know

00:43:55.179 --> 00:43:57.000
and you guys had probably the greatest centre

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.920
-back of all time alongside him so the greatest

00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:01.559
centre -back I've seen let me not say of all

00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:03.159
time because I know people are going to bring

00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:07.280
up people I didn't watch but it's like yeah when

00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.719
you had Van Dijk playing like that I think that

00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.940
entire back four and Alisson was elevated defensively

00:44:12.940 --> 00:44:15.639
it's a bit like Saliba now you know I think and

00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:20.059
Gabriel so I think He doesn't give you anything.

00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:22.400
Trent's creative bag was out of this world in

00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.320
some games. So I think just like Danny Alves,

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.380
that's my excuse for Trent. But I don't think

00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:30.880
you can make that for Kyle Walker because he

00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.059
loses the ball as much as... I think more than

00:44:34.059 --> 00:44:38.380
he wins it back, maybe. So just continuing the

00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:40.699
conversation we had with the underrated, with

00:44:40.699 --> 00:44:43.320
Trippier. I truly believe Trippier was a much

00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.900
better player than Walker, but... you know, if

00:44:46.900 --> 00:44:49.019
you had to ask a casual fan, they would say the

00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:53.280
opposite. So that's why. And the last point I

00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.900
want to make with Kyle Walker is kind of a bigger

00:44:55.900 --> 00:44:59.139
point. It's not, if we look at Kyle Walker, the

00:44:59.139 --> 00:45:03.179
archetype, right? There's other players like

00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:06.280
him that weren't good defensively, but their

00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:08.800
recovery pace bailed them out so much and they

00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.980
won trophies. So in hindsight, it looks like

00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:16.849
we can't. You know, so the other name that came

00:45:16.849 --> 00:45:19.510
to mind, but I chose Kyle Walker instead, was

00:45:19.510 --> 00:45:22.570
Rio Ferdinand. He's another guy that, once his

00:45:22.570 --> 00:45:25.269
body gave up on him, you could see how, like,

00:45:25.309 --> 00:45:28.289
badly he read the game. Yeah, he was, I mean,

00:45:28.389 --> 00:45:31.989
again, probably carried by Vidic a bit, you know,

00:45:32.010 --> 00:45:33.969
Vidic's ability to read the game. And Van der

00:45:33.969 --> 00:45:36.409
Sar, I think Van der Sar was also one of those

00:45:36.409 --> 00:45:39.289
keepers who peaked very late, but when he peaked,

00:45:39.289 --> 00:45:42.440
he was like... as complete as you could expect

00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.179
for the time. Obviously, now people expect keepers

00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:47.280
to play out and stuff, but I think van der Sar

00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.179
was like the closest thing to Petr Cech at the

00:45:50.179 --> 00:45:52.900
time, you know. Alright, so that's all I have

00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:54.760
to say about Kyle Walker. Your number three?

00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:59.440
My number three? My number three is, well, it's

00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.119
a player who, I don't know if they're overrated

00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:05.400
or underrated, but generally, I see a lot of

00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.440
pundits and a lot of... People on Twitter bring

00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:11.639
them up as they most appreciated and most underrated

00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:15.039
player, which is what Consequentially made me

00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:18.139
regard him as overrated number three for me is

00:46:18.139 --> 00:46:21.989
Musa Dembele from Tottenham When I was doing

00:46:21.989 --> 00:46:24.150
my research, his name popped up a lot from other

00:46:24.150 --> 00:46:27.050
people. Quote -unquote, one of the best midfielders

00:46:27.050 --> 00:46:28.949
in Premier League history. That's what I've seen.

00:46:29.510 --> 00:46:33.510
There's absolutely no way. It was very difficult

00:46:33.510 --> 00:46:35.250
to get the ball off him, I'll give you that.

00:46:35.409 --> 00:46:37.650
Yeah, he was good at keeping the ball. He was

00:46:37.650 --> 00:46:40.289
good at progressing it to a degree. But aside

00:46:40.289 --> 00:46:43.170
from that, he didn't have any elite traits outside

00:46:43.170 --> 00:46:45.670
of just keeping the ball very well. Yeah, in

00:46:45.670 --> 00:46:49.349
a lot of ways. When Tottenham used to get to

00:46:49.349 --> 00:46:53.530
the final third, you could see Eriksen was overburdened.

00:46:53.530 --> 00:46:55.449
Like, who else was the creator there? I mean,

00:46:55.489 --> 00:46:58.230
Dele Alli wasn't much of a creator. Son wasn't

00:46:58.230 --> 00:47:00.489
much of a creator. Kane had to develop the ability

00:47:00.489 --> 00:47:02.889
to create because I think they weren't getting

00:47:02.889 --> 00:47:05.530
it from anyone except Eriksen, you know? So it's

00:47:05.530 --> 00:47:08.469
like, I'm just saying if Dembele's like... one

00:47:08.469 --> 00:47:10.530
of the best number eights as people spoke about.

00:47:10.630 --> 00:47:12.670
Shouldn't he be close to like Steven Gerrard

00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:15.630
if you're saying he's underrated? I think most

00:47:15.630 --> 00:47:17.690
people would agree that Steven Gerrard is probably

00:47:17.690 --> 00:47:19.570
the most complete eight the Premier League has

00:47:19.570 --> 00:47:23.050
seen. Obviously, you can't put everything down

00:47:23.050 --> 00:47:25.030
to winning things, as I've said before. I think

00:47:25.030 --> 00:47:27.409
Steven Gerrard in a better team, if Steven Gerrard

00:47:27.409 --> 00:47:30.309
moves to Chelsea, probably wins everything. So

00:47:30.309 --> 00:47:33.829
it's like, that's the thing. So I would say that...

00:47:34.460 --> 00:47:36.940
Maybe I could have put Gerrard on my most underrated

00:47:36.940 --> 00:47:38.719
list, but again, I don't think he's necessarily

00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.139
underrated. I think there's more that people

00:47:42.139 --> 00:47:44.920
say, oh, Lampard is better or Scholes is better

00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:46.559
because they've won things, when I don't think

00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:49.480
neither of them are close, you know. But, yeah,

00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:51.659
it's like, I think Dembele, he just didn't have,

00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:53.980
like, he's not like an eight. Like, you spoke

00:47:53.980 --> 00:47:56.139
of Carzola earlier. Was he anywhere close to

00:47:56.139 --> 00:47:59.059
Carzola? I don't think so. And I think Carzola

00:47:59.059 --> 00:48:02.369
played eight later in his career because... That

00:48:02.369 --> 00:48:04.489
was the most functional position for him to play

00:48:04.489 --> 00:48:08.030
because I think Arsenal had two number 10s in

00:48:08.030 --> 00:48:10.269
Ramsey and Mesut Ozil who couldn't play well

00:48:10.269 --> 00:48:13.449
as an 8, you know. So it's not like he started

00:48:13.449 --> 00:48:16.889
as a 10. I think probably Santa Corzola is everything

00:48:16.889 --> 00:48:19.769
people say Moussa Dembele is, you know, in retrospect.

00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:23.130
He just played in a Tottenham team that was a

00:48:23.130 --> 00:48:24.989
lot better at the time and I think had the best

00:48:24.989 --> 00:48:27.289
centre -back partnership in the world which helped

00:48:27.289 --> 00:48:30.710
platform his ability to drive the ball up a lot,

00:48:30.730 --> 00:48:34.239
you know. All right. My number three, also an

00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:37.320
eight. His name is Frank Lampard. Now you could

00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.900
just put this is maybe the one you could put

00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:42.780
down to me having an agenda because of Gerard.

00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:45.940
But I truly don't believe Lampard should have

00:48:45.940 --> 00:48:49.340
been in the same conversations in the same. Yeah.

00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.980
If we had honorable mentions, Lampard would have

00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:56.380
been an honorable mention for me here. So Lampard

00:48:56.380 --> 00:48:59.619
has better stats than Gerrard. But it totally

00:48:59.619 --> 00:49:02.239
leaves out the fact that one, Gerrard didn't

00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:04.280
take penalties until very late in his career.

00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:07.880
And two, Lampard played over 100 games more than

00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.940
Gerrard. So I don't want to make them verse each

00:49:12.940 --> 00:49:16.079
other, but I'm just talking about Lampard as

00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:19.250
a player. Inflated stats because he took all

00:49:19.250 --> 00:49:22.590
the penalties. And let's not forget Mourinho

00:49:22.590 --> 00:49:24.690
at the time, who was the best coach in the world,

00:49:24.789 --> 00:49:27.670
wanted to sign Gerrard when he already had Lampard.

00:49:27.929 --> 00:49:30.730
Yes, so the thing I wanted to mention is, when

00:49:30.730 --> 00:49:34.090
you said Gerrard went to Chelsea and he'd win

00:49:34.090 --> 00:49:36.349
it all, do you think that would happen or do

00:49:36.349 --> 00:49:39.030
you think what happened at England would happen

00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:41.010
where they try to cram in too many attackers

00:49:41.010 --> 00:49:43.909
and it becomes dysfunctional? Well, I mean, I

00:49:43.909 --> 00:49:47.789
think... At the time, Jose Mourinho was ahead

00:49:47.789 --> 00:49:49.630
of everyone. Until Pep Guardiola came along,

00:49:49.769 --> 00:49:52.190
I think he would have had the ruthlessness to

00:49:52.190 --> 00:49:54.590
push Lampard on and he would have got the money.

00:49:54.650 --> 00:49:56.789
We'd seen him do it with other players before.

00:49:57.409 --> 00:50:00.730
We saw him just, I think, sign Klitschenko and

00:50:00.730 --> 00:50:02.690
sell him the next season or a couple of seasons

00:50:02.690 --> 00:50:05.110
or just drop him. I don't think he was the one

00:50:05.110 --> 00:50:06.889
who sold him, but he played him for like two

00:50:06.889 --> 00:50:10.130
months and then never played him again. I think

00:50:10.130 --> 00:50:12.889
Mourinho would have definitely, I think if he,

00:50:12.969 --> 00:50:17.349
at the time, His idea was that, OK, the midfield

00:50:17.349 --> 00:50:22.230
he ended up forming, or I guess he put the foundations

00:50:22.230 --> 00:50:26.050
in place for Real Madrid's all -conquering midfield.

00:50:26.289 --> 00:50:29.110
I think his idea at Chelsea was the same. I don't

00:50:29.110 --> 00:50:31.090
think Lampard platformed it the best. I think

00:50:31.090 --> 00:50:32.789
that's why they fell short in the Champions League

00:50:32.789 --> 00:50:36.110
as well. I think maybe if they had Gerrard, particularly

00:50:36.110 --> 00:50:38.150
in that semi -final, where they created enough

00:50:38.150 --> 00:50:40.389
to win the game, Barcelona just overran them

00:50:40.389 --> 00:50:43.039
in midfield. a player like Gerrard might have

00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.380
tilted the margins in Chelsea's favour because

00:50:45.380 --> 00:50:47.300
they were definitely better coached at the time,

00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:49.440
you know. Like I said, I don't want to make this

00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:51.739
Lampard versus Gerrard. I mean, I would be the

00:50:51.739 --> 00:50:53.800
neutral because, I mean, I'm not saying, like,

00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.079
I like both players, you know. Like, I just think

00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:00.139
Lampard is slightly overrated because people

00:51:00.139 --> 00:51:03.889
are basing it purely on output. He was playing

00:51:03.889 --> 00:51:06.090
in a team that was... Oh, yes, that's the thing

00:51:06.090 --> 00:51:08.429
I forgot to mention. He was in a far better team

00:51:08.429 --> 00:51:09.789
than... Yeah, he was playing in a team that was

00:51:09.789 --> 00:51:12.369
arguably probably the best in terms of squad

00:51:12.369 --> 00:51:15.030
depth that England had ever seen, you know. Like,

00:51:15.030 --> 00:51:16.889
I don't think that a team had been assembled

00:51:16.889 --> 00:51:19.309
with that much depth. And that's why they hardly

00:51:19.309 --> 00:51:22.090
conceded any goals. I think they came one game

00:51:22.090 --> 00:51:24.630
away from going invincible, which was a game

00:51:24.630 --> 00:51:26.630
they had to rotate players against Sunderland.

00:51:27.449 --> 00:51:31.769
And, yeah, I think it's just... In that team,

00:51:31.909 --> 00:51:35.769
I feel like those two games where they could

00:51:35.769 --> 00:51:38.889
have become treble winners, perhaps with Gerrard

00:51:38.889 --> 00:51:40.590
they would have become treble winners, you know.

00:51:40.929 --> 00:51:44.929
Alright. Your number two? My number two most

00:51:44.929 --> 00:51:48.889
overrated player? Let me just confirm. My number

00:51:48.889 --> 00:51:51.250
two most overrated player? Obviously it's a current

00:51:51.250 --> 00:51:55.090
player. I think we both speak about him. I mean,

00:51:55.150 --> 00:51:58.730
he's a goalkeeper. It's Jordan Pickford. I think...

00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:03.820
Just the way he's spoken about as being one of

00:52:03.820 --> 00:52:05.619
the best goalkeepers in the world. I think he

00:52:05.619 --> 00:52:08.039
makes as many mistakes as shots as he stops.

00:52:08.619 --> 00:52:11.460
He jeopardizes the team as much as he saves them.

00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:15.860
So for me, it's more a thing of how much he's

00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:17.760
being played, how he's being currently spoken

00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.960
of. I don't think he's one of the best goalkeepers

00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:22.519
in the world. I don't think he's anywhere close

00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:24.900
to it. But every time you see a Premier League...

00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:27.219
pundits speak about him. They talk about him

00:52:27.219 --> 00:52:30.059
as having kept Everton in the game. He's keeping

00:52:30.059 --> 00:52:32.099
them up single -handedly. I don't know if that's

00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:35.139
the case, but I don't believe it to be so. I

00:52:35.139 --> 00:52:36.880
think he's one of the most overrated players

00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:40.340
I've seen in my life. I'm going to have to slightly

00:52:40.340 --> 00:52:43.980
disagree with you. I think the casual fan recognizes

00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:47.199
that he's a bit of a clown. Yeah, I would say

00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:48.960
that, but then what is it with the pundits? Why

00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:50.980
does he get all this recognition and praise?

00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:57.389
There's British bias. they find it very difficult

00:52:57.389 --> 00:53:01.829
to criticize an Englishman. Whereas, like, foreign

00:53:01.829 --> 00:53:04.590
players is fair game. They can just say whatever

00:53:04.590 --> 00:53:07.710
they want. But, yeah, you were saying... I disagree

00:53:07.710 --> 00:53:11.110
about the over... Like, I don't think he's rated.

00:53:11.369 --> 00:53:15.050
But if you're talking about this season, people

00:53:15.050 --> 00:53:18.590
have been propping him up as, like, he's the

00:53:18.590 --> 00:53:21.909
clear England number one. Yeah, I mean, I don't

00:53:21.909 --> 00:53:25.059
know whether he is or not. I don't think... England

00:53:25.059 --> 00:53:28.940
have many people who are nailed on as a world

00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:33.980
-class goalkeeper right now. I think probably

00:53:33.980 --> 00:53:38.880
the cup final, what I saw from Trafford, was

00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.079
potentially better for England than anything

00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.420
I've seen from Pigford. I would even just play

00:53:43.420 --> 00:53:45.780
him now off the basis of that one performance

00:53:45.780 --> 00:53:48.320
because I think it gives more to the team to

00:53:48.320 --> 00:53:50.659
have a goalkeeper who can do everything. I just

00:53:50.659 --> 00:53:53.309
feel like... like he has done in the last couple

00:53:53.309 --> 00:53:55.949
tournaments he might pull out a stop and save

00:53:55.949 --> 00:53:58.469
a chance but he's also going to create like a

00:53:58.469 --> 00:54:00.409
one -on -one chance for the opposition with his

00:54:00.409 --> 00:54:03.150
like distribution and i wouldn't mind like like

00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:05.030
you could look at someone like courtois right

00:54:05.030 --> 00:54:07.590
they don't have the best distribution but they

00:54:07.590 --> 00:54:09.730
manage it well you could look at someone like

00:54:09.730 --> 00:54:13.679
david raya who Added to like made his distribution

00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.099
better piece by piece. It still doesn't necessarily

00:54:16.099 --> 00:54:19.340
have like Edison or Allison level But he manages

00:54:19.340 --> 00:54:22.559
it very well. He knows which passes to use My

00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.820
problem with Pickford is that he tries the passes

00:54:24.820 --> 00:54:27.599
that Allison and Edison try on a regular basis

00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:32.639
and he keeps fucking them up. I think if he played

00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:35.260
in the top team, you would also realize how bad

00:54:35.260 --> 00:54:37.780
he is, just like Ramsdale. I think when Ramsdale

00:54:37.780 --> 00:54:39.099
got Arsenal to the Champions League, everyone

00:54:39.099 --> 00:54:40.940
was like, wow, he's such a good shot stopper.

00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:43.630
And then when Arteta got rid of him... i kind

00:54:43.630 --> 00:54:45.769
of understood because i'm like this guy keeps

00:54:45.769 --> 00:54:47.829
trying to pass the ball on the ground through

00:54:47.829 --> 00:54:50.110
the center of the pitch as if he's allison and

00:54:50.110 --> 00:54:52.710
allison does it regularly but he executes it

00:54:52.710 --> 00:54:56.690
almost every time ramsdale tries it seven times

00:54:56.690 --> 00:54:59.090
and executes it once and then he keeps trying

00:54:59.090 --> 00:55:00.829
it and trying it and trying it and pickford has

00:55:00.829 --> 00:55:02.429
that same thing i guess when you're playing in

00:55:02.429 --> 00:55:05.550
a lower club it can always be covered up between

00:55:06.190 --> 00:55:08.769
because you're facing a lot of shots all the

00:55:08.769 --> 00:55:11.250
time, so you're stopping them. And if you're

00:55:11.250 --> 00:55:13.690
a good shot stopper, that can get people to think

00:55:13.690 --> 00:55:17.070
you're better than you are. It's for the cameras.

00:55:17.429 --> 00:55:21.449
A nice stop, it'll be on the front page of the

00:55:21.449 --> 00:55:24.030
newspaper the next day. Yeah, exactly. Where

00:55:24.030 --> 00:55:28.809
distribution and other traits are not seen. That's

00:55:28.809 --> 00:55:32.420
why the casual fan... prefers the shot stopper

00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:35.239
over the distributor yeah again he'll look good

00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.619
in the world cup but perhaps one of the reasons

00:55:38.619 --> 00:55:41.179
england haven't been able to make the same jump

00:55:41.179 --> 00:55:43.400
as like france or spain despite having a quarter

00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:46.280
squad of similar quality is probably that they

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:48.460
don't really have a goalkeeper that's elite they've

00:55:48.460 --> 00:55:50.400
never had a goalkeeper that's elite you know

00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:56.239
okay so my number two is muhammad salah so he

00:55:56.239 --> 00:56:00.369
regularly used to get like seven eight chances

00:56:00.369 --> 00:56:04.849
a game and score one and i'm supposed to you

00:56:04.849 --> 00:56:07.650
know stand up and praise this when i think a

00:56:07.650 --> 00:56:10.590
better player would get two or three uh a more

00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:13.949
clinical player i should say and i just don't

00:56:13.949 --> 00:56:16.489
think he was very clinical except for two seasons

00:56:16.489 --> 00:56:19.329
or let me say one and a half incredible seasons

00:56:19.329 --> 00:56:22.309
where everything he touched turned to gold but

00:56:22.309 --> 00:56:25.429
the rest of his time at liverpool uh was just

00:56:25.429 --> 00:56:28.710
so it wouldn't be two and a half No, why do you

00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:31.389
say that? The season you guys made the Champions

00:56:31.389 --> 00:56:33.690
League final. I mean, you didn't win anything,

00:56:33.869 --> 00:56:39.110
but he was crazy good. Nah. For me, his first

00:56:39.110 --> 00:56:41.630
season, that's an incredible, incredible season.

00:56:41.829 --> 00:56:44.869
We just finished top four and we lost the Champions

00:56:44.869 --> 00:56:46.809
League final. Yeah, that's the season I'm talking

00:56:46.809 --> 00:56:48.929
about. That's his first season. That's a stone

00:56:48.929 --> 00:56:51.949
cold, amazing season. The half season was last

00:56:51.949 --> 00:56:54.530
year. Because about after Christmas, he just

00:56:54.530 --> 00:56:58.150
stopped scoring. like he was on course to do

00:56:58.150 --> 00:57:04.090
a 30 20 and he did like 29 18 yeah i mean but

00:57:04.090 --> 00:57:06.389
it was like three quarters of the season i'd

00:57:06.389 --> 00:57:08.949
still give him the bag of the whole season you

00:57:08.949 --> 00:57:12.769
know so This episode, I know I said this is an

00:57:12.769 --> 00:57:16.090
evergreen episode, but this episode happens to

00:57:16.090 --> 00:57:18.449
coincide with the week that he announced that

00:57:18.449 --> 00:57:20.929
he'll be leaving Liverpool and we're going to

00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:24.150
be seeing him held up as the best player in the

00:57:24.150 --> 00:57:26.889
history of the league, right? And I just don't

00:57:26.889 --> 00:57:29.670
think that's the case. What I wanted to do for

00:57:29.670 --> 00:57:32.230
the underrated section was to ask you a question.

00:57:32.590 --> 00:57:34.610
Who's the best player in the history of the league?

00:57:35.050 --> 00:57:38.369
And there is a correct answer and that... And

00:57:38.369 --> 00:57:41.110
that correct answer is undisputed in my mind.

00:57:41.550 --> 00:57:47.070
For me, it's KDB. So, me too. But the thing is,

00:57:47.110 --> 00:57:49.250
I think we're in the minority when we say KDB

00:57:49.250 --> 00:57:52.619
is the undisputed best ever player. Yeah, I mean,

00:57:52.699 --> 00:57:55.099
it just depends on the metric of what, like,

00:57:55.179 --> 00:57:58.820
what, like, like, I think someone can use a very

00:57:58.820 --> 00:58:02.539
defined, like, criterion for, like, saying that,

00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:04.920
oh, okay, this, or a very specific criterion

00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:07.199
for saying this is what I want to be the best

00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:08.980
player ever. Like I was saying before, if someone

00:58:08.980 --> 00:58:12.699
wants it to be about poise or finesse, then it's

00:58:12.699 --> 00:58:15.360
like you're looking at probably, in a Premier

00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:17.940
League context, probably only, like, Berbatov,

00:58:17.960 --> 00:58:20.019
Bergkamp, and maybe Thierry Henry, you know,

00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:24.099
so. It's like, I think De Bruyne has a bit of

00:58:24.099 --> 00:58:28.039
that. He's consistent. I mean, for most of his

00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:31.139
career, he was hardly injured at Man City. Maybe

00:58:31.139 --> 00:58:33.099
towards the age... I disagree with that totally.

00:58:33.659 --> 00:58:35.960
No, I mean, I think there was... Like, he had

00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:39.039
lots of injuries nearly every season and... It

00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:40.840
would be like in the beginning, like the early

00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:42.599
parts of the season, he'd have injuries, then

00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:44.179
the back half of the season. But I think there

00:58:44.179 --> 00:58:47.619
was like a run where he played in the Centurion

00:58:47.619 --> 00:58:49.460
season and the next season where he played...

00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:50.980
No, I'm not saying he was injured all the time.

00:58:51.019 --> 00:58:53.610
I'm just saying... He had several small injuries

00:58:53.610 --> 00:58:56.010
that would keep him out for, like, weeks. Yeah,

00:58:56.050 --> 00:58:59.030
but I think, like, he mostly was available, you

00:58:59.030 --> 00:59:00.829
know, which is, I think, the most important thing.

00:59:00.869 --> 00:59:03.010
Because you could have someone potentially like

00:59:03.010 --> 00:59:05.010
Karzola, who you were speaking about before,

00:59:05.289 --> 00:59:08.010
but he wasn't actually available half the time.

00:59:08.090 --> 00:59:10.289
So that's another thing that you'd have to consider

00:59:10.289 --> 00:59:13.179
as to why he didn't get... probably maybe signed

00:59:13.179 --> 00:59:15.039
by Man City because they were stealing all our

00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:17.900
players at the time. Alright, we're focusing

00:59:17.900 --> 00:59:20.880
too much on KDB. We're talking about Salah. What

00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:23.340
did you want to say about Salah being overrated?

00:59:23.340 --> 00:59:25.719
Do you agree? Disagree? No, I obviously disagree.

00:59:25.900 --> 00:59:28.219
But I would put Salah in my top 10 Premier League

00:59:28.219 --> 00:59:33.000
players of all time. I'm just saying if everyone

00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.519
is holding him up as number one and I believe

00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.320
his say number five, that would be overrated

00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:42.079
to me. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't

00:59:42.079 --> 00:59:44.539
think he's number five. I think he's in the top

00:59:44.539 --> 00:59:48.159
ten, but I'd have to think about it. Yeah, I

00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:50.639
mean, if you're saying, is he the greatest Premier

00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:53.940
League player of all time? Yes. No, then I'd

00:59:53.940 --> 00:59:55.940
say... But the thing is, a lot of people have

00:59:55.940 --> 00:59:57.940
an argument. Yeah, I think a lot of people will

00:59:57.940 --> 00:59:59.519
have that argument, but it would mostly come

00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:04.500
from Liverpool fans. I know I just said he announced

01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:08.159
his... Not retirement, him leaving the club.

01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:12.230
And I just saw... outpouring of respect from

01:00:12.230 --> 01:00:16.469
every fan base. Yeah, but I think that also speaks

01:00:16.469 --> 01:00:19.690
to how good he's been. At the end of the day,

01:00:19.750 --> 01:00:23.050
it's not like he can control how people rate

01:00:23.050 --> 01:00:27.769
him. Sure, but my disagreement comes with the

01:00:27.769 --> 01:00:30.869
fact that when you watch him, you watch how wasteful

01:00:30.869 --> 01:00:35.590
he is. He could be like you watch Lewandowski,

01:00:35.750 --> 01:00:38.170
who's not like Messi or Ronaldo, but Lewandowski

01:00:38.170 --> 01:00:40.889
would have been far more clinical than Salah.

01:00:40.889 --> 01:00:43.309
Yeah, but I mean, there's certain types of players

01:00:43.309 --> 01:00:46.070
who are like that. I think the most important

01:00:46.070 --> 01:00:49.610
thing is that he generates enough chances to

01:00:49.610 --> 01:00:52.469
score 25 goals a season, which is crazy for a

01:00:52.469 --> 01:00:55.570
winger. And that's another thing. It's the system

01:00:55.570 --> 01:00:58.570
that generated those chances. It's not him being...

01:00:59.460 --> 01:01:02.539
particularly particularly amazing or like no

01:01:02.539 --> 01:01:04.820
but i'm saying it's like if the system says you

01:01:04.820 --> 01:01:06.960
stand here we'll pass in this direction and you

01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.000
run onto it you know but in a lot of ways he's

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:13.239
like a similar to the premier league version

01:01:13.239 --> 01:01:17.119
of cristiano ronaldo you know i think he needs

01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:19.400
to generate a lot of chances to score but it's

01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:21.960
like and that's what i'm talking about he's just

01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:25.659
not clinical Yeah, I don't think he's not clinical

01:01:25.659 --> 01:01:28.000
because I think at the end of the day the numbers

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:31.679
speak for themselves. It's like let's put it

01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:35.719
in a context of how many players can do that,

01:01:35.860 --> 01:01:38.019
you know. Like I was speaking about Alexis Antlers

01:01:38.019 --> 01:01:40.300
earlier. He's someone who's very clinical. He

01:01:40.300 --> 01:01:42.659
got very few chances and took most of them. So

01:01:42.659 --> 01:01:47.360
perhaps is Alexis Antlers a better footballer

01:01:47.360 --> 01:01:50.130
than Salah though? I don't think so. Like, overall,

01:01:50.289 --> 01:01:52.070
I still... Because you have to think of longevity

01:01:52.070 --> 01:01:55.070
as well and, like, those kinds of things. But

01:01:55.070 --> 01:01:57.590
in the people in the same brackets as Salah,

01:01:57.630 --> 01:02:00.929
there's much more... Yeah, I mean, like, if you're

01:02:00.929 --> 01:02:04.869
saying, okay, the bracket he goes into. But then

01:02:04.869 --> 01:02:07.150
that's a very, like... I'm just comparing him

01:02:07.150 --> 01:02:10.769
to his peers. Yeah, I wouldn't say he's overrated

01:02:10.769 --> 01:02:13.909
or underrated. I'd say he's, like, adequately

01:02:13.909 --> 01:02:17.329
rated for me. But that's just my opinion. Because,

01:02:17.489 --> 01:02:20.420
like I said... I've literally heard it because

01:02:20.420 --> 01:02:23.719
of this announcement, best ever player, Liverpool's

01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:26.639
best ever player, which is also not true. You

01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:29.539
know, just accolades that I totally disagree

01:02:29.539 --> 01:02:34.460
with. But yeah, your number one? My number one,

01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:38.199
Eden Hazard. One of the best wingers in Premier

01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:41.380
League history, but also the way he's spoken

01:02:41.380 --> 01:02:46.059
of. I would say is heavily, heavily inflated.

01:02:46.179 --> 01:02:48.579
I wouldn't put him down as one of the best players

01:02:48.579 --> 01:02:52.239
of his generation. I'd say he came in the greatest

01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:56.199
footballing generation that I've seen. I didn't

01:02:56.199 --> 01:02:58.500
watch every generation, but what most people,

01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:01.760
pundits or people who've even been giving opinions

01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:05.380
since those days, have said is the greatest generation

01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:07.980
of footballers. And a lot of people like to include

01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:10.329
him in the top ten. I don't think he's anywhere

01:03:10.329 --> 01:03:12.909
near the top 10 of footballers in the same generation.

01:03:12.969 --> 01:03:16.050
I think in Belgium, KDB outperformed him nearly

01:03:16.050 --> 01:03:18.809
every time. I think in the Premier League, KDB

01:03:18.809 --> 01:03:21.429
outperformed him. I think a lot of players outperformed

01:03:21.429 --> 01:03:26.349
him in the same era. The way Chelsea fans and

01:03:26.349 --> 01:03:28.090
the way a lot of Premier League pundits talk

01:03:28.090 --> 01:03:30.630
of him is purely because, a bit like Bergkamp,

01:03:30.730 --> 01:03:32.590
you know. I watched a lot of Bergkamp. I think

01:03:32.590 --> 01:03:36.449
the thing about Bergkamp, though, and I think

01:03:36.449 --> 01:03:38.550
Eden Hazard, is that it's hard to deny their

01:03:38.550 --> 01:03:40.610
talents because people will say they're big game

01:03:40.610 --> 01:03:43.090
players. I would say Bergkamp more so than Hazard

01:03:43.090 --> 01:03:45.190
because Hazard didn't really do it in knockout

01:03:45.190 --> 01:03:47.789
competitions. I think Bergkamp was very good

01:03:47.789 --> 01:03:49.670
for the Netherlands, got them to two finals,

01:03:49.789 --> 01:03:53.170
you know. alongside, I think one was alongside

01:03:53.170 --> 01:03:55.989
Van Basten when he was the main player. Well,

01:03:56.170 --> 01:03:59.230
another similar player is Sadio Mane. I would

01:03:59.230 --> 01:04:03.570
put in that same kind of, what's the word, profile

01:04:03.570 --> 01:04:07.889
as Eden Hazard. Dribbler with less output. Yeah,

01:04:07.909 --> 01:04:11.269
but I would say even in that context, I would

01:04:11.269 --> 01:04:13.989
have taken Mane over Hazard if you offered me

01:04:13.989 --> 01:04:16.030
both players. I think Mane was the better player.

01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:20.159
so another thing that i read is that eden hazard

01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:24.099
would not take care of himself in the off season

01:04:24.099 --> 01:04:27.219
he would just have like burgers and like fast

01:04:27.219 --> 01:04:30.179
food and stuff so that's why he would start seasons

01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:32.920
very slowly and then like as he built up his

01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:35.920
fitness uh throughout the season by like halfway

01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:37.659
through the season that's when he started to

01:04:37.659 --> 01:04:40.980
you know like hit peak performance because he

01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:44.179
he you know finally like worked off the extra

01:04:44.179 --> 01:04:47.670
weight yeah and i mean Again, another thing,

01:04:47.769 --> 01:04:50.369
you can't be one of the greatest players of your

01:04:50.369 --> 01:04:53.909
generation, in my opinion, if you can't handle

01:04:53.909 --> 01:04:58.969
your dream move. He went to Real Madrid and then

01:04:58.969 --> 01:05:02.989
he says it fell apart for him or it wasn't what

01:05:02.989 --> 01:05:06.409
he thought it was. It doesn't make sense. I think

01:05:06.409 --> 01:05:09.610
he was already a bit like... He played in a Chelsea

01:05:09.610 --> 01:05:13.809
team. If you look at when he won two league titles

01:05:13.809 --> 01:05:17.769
at Chelsea, the first season, I think Nemanja

01:05:17.769 --> 01:05:21.250
Matic and Diego Costa were as influential as

01:05:21.250 --> 01:05:24.090
him. Could be argued either way that one of the

01:05:24.090 --> 01:05:26.670
three of them were the most influential player

01:05:26.670 --> 01:05:28.409
in the team. But he won player of the season.

01:05:28.610 --> 01:05:31.329
In the second season, he won the league. I think...

01:05:31.329 --> 01:05:34.909
Wait, when did he... What two years did he win

01:05:34.909 --> 01:05:38.530
the league? The first Mourinho one. Yeah, and

01:05:38.530 --> 01:05:41.389
then second? Conte. Oh, okay, okay. My mistake.

01:05:41.530 --> 01:05:43.610
In the Conte era, I think that... Sorry, just

01:05:43.610 --> 01:05:48.570
to interrupt you. You were saying Matic and Diego

01:05:48.570 --> 01:05:51.389
Costa. I would also think Fabregas in that Mourinho.

01:05:51.389 --> 01:05:53.250
Oh, yes, there's Fabregas. Sorry, I forgot. Fabregas

01:05:53.250 --> 01:05:55.329
was a huge part of that Mourinho team, I remember.

01:05:55.570 --> 01:05:57.449
But, yes, sorry, carry on. There's Fabregas as

01:05:57.449 --> 01:05:59.829
well. I forgot about that. Even Andre Schürrle

01:05:59.829 --> 01:06:02.289
had a lot of big moments off the bench that I

01:06:02.289 --> 01:06:05.199
don't think, like... People reflect back on it

01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:07.639
and say, act like he was a one -man team that

01:06:07.639 --> 01:06:11.400
carried Chelsea to countless successes. If you

01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:14.019
look at De Bruyne, even though he played in a

01:06:14.019 --> 01:06:16.219
team that had similar talent, look at how much

01:06:16.219 --> 01:06:19.420
he elevated them. I think Chelsea unquestionably

01:06:19.420 --> 01:06:21.460
had a better squad than you guys. They should

01:06:21.460 --> 01:06:23.780
have been challenging at the same level. They

01:06:23.780 --> 01:06:25.460
should have been Manchester City's competition.

01:06:28.030 --> 01:06:31.449
when you look at the Conte season, I think he

01:06:31.449 --> 01:06:34.269
won playoff the season again. But for me, unquestionably,

01:06:34.349 --> 01:06:36.989
Conte was the best. Like, if you take him out

01:06:36.989 --> 01:06:39.110
of that team, they won the league comfortably,

01:06:39.369 --> 01:06:41.510
but I don't think they would have won it without

01:06:41.510 --> 01:06:43.429
Conte. I think he was the best player comfortably

01:06:43.429 --> 01:06:46.829
in that team by a long, long way, you know. Okay,

01:06:47.070 --> 01:06:49.849
my number one, and I just want to go back to

01:06:49.849 --> 01:06:52.690
Salah quickly just to make a point. Salah is

01:06:52.690 --> 01:06:56.090
a stat padder, meaning... He usually gets his

01:06:56.090 --> 01:06:58.210
goals against the smaller teams. I'm not saying

01:06:58.210 --> 01:07:00.829
he doesn't score against the big teams, but he'll

01:07:00.829 --> 01:07:03.530
prioritize his goals. Okay, but while you're

01:07:03.530 --> 01:07:05.769
making that argument, right, people will say

01:07:05.769 --> 01:07:09.110
Eden Hazard is not a stat pattern. He shows up

01:07:09.110 --> 01:07:11.989
in the big games. But is that the truth? You

01:07:11.989 --> 01:07:14.190
need to do both. No, no, I'm saying is that the

01:07:14.190 --> 01:07:16.710
truth because... For Hazard. Yeah, because...

01:07:16.710 --> 01:07:18.510
Hazard never won the Champions League, so...

01:07:18.510 --> 01:07:21.369
He never did. He showed up in the big games in

01:07:21.369 --> 01:07:24.190
the league, which... Salah did technically as

01:07:24.190 --> 01:07:27.949
well and to a greater extent so my thing is not

01:07:27.949 --> 01:07:30.050
against not I'm not disagreeing with what you're

01:07:30.050 --> 01:07:32.690
saying about Salah my thing is this whole idea

01:07:32.690 --> 01:07:35.170
that Eden Hazard is a big game player like people

01:07:35.170 --> 01:07:38.650
say oh he should be like how many I've seen so

01:07:38.650 --> 01:07:40.829
many Chelsea fans say he's the third best talent

01:07:40.829 --> 01:07:42.849
of that generation which is fucking ridiculous

01:07:42.849 --> 01:07:46.039
you know he's nowhere near Neymar He's nowhere

01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:48.300
near Luka Modric. He's nowhere near Toni Kroos.

01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:50.739
He wouldn't be anywhere in the top 10. I mean,

01:07:50.739 --> 01:07:52.619
we could go on enlisting the players from that

01:07:52.619 --> 01:07:56.099
generation. We could even go to the PSG current

01:07:56.099 --> 01:07:58.320
players, and I think they'd be better than Hazard

01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:01.840
as well. So my thing is just that, oh, okay,

01:08:01.940 --> 01:08:03.900
he showed up against Arsenal who were out of

01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:07.829
form. He used to bully us. Fine. We were a terrible

01:08:07.829 --> 01:08:10.190
team at the time. He showed up against you guys

01:08:10.190 --> 01:08:13.590
in the Carabao Cup. A couple of games which people...

01:08:13.590 --> 01:08:16.609
A lot of the criticism that whenever somebody

01:08:16.609 --> 01:08:19.270
posts a comp of Hazard on Twitter, they'll say,

01:08:19.350 --> 01:08:21.850
wow, all these highlights are from the Carabao

01:08:21.850 --> 01:08:24.869
Cup. Yeah. Because, like, if you're thinking

01:08:24.869 --> 01:08:26.869
about it, right, he didn't have that good a record

01:08:26.869 --> 01:08:29.970
against Man City. He didn't have that good a

01:08:29.970 --> 01:08:32.010
record against Manchester United. So where is

01:08:32.010 --> 01:08:34.750
all this, like... This idea that he was better

01:08:34.750 --> 01:08:36.770
than De Bruyne in the big games or that he was

01:08:36.770 --> 01:08:39.930
better than Neymar, even Salah in the big games.

01:08:39.989 --> 01:08:42.789
I just don't get where it comes from. Absolutely.

01:08:43.909 --> 01:08:49.270
So similarly to Salah, continuing my point, we

01:08:49.270 --> 01:08:52.489
have stat padders. And the king of the stat padders

01:08:52.489 --> 01:08:57.189
in our league is Harry Kane. And he's the player...

01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:00.739
I not dislike the most, who I just think is so,

01:09:00.859 --> 01:09:04.520
so overrated. He would all the time prioritize

01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:09.060
his goals over the team's well -being. In fact,

01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:12.600
there was a time where he said he swore on his

01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:14.539
daughter's life that the ball touched his head.

01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:18.579
And they showed him a replay where it clearly

01:09:18.579 --> 01:09:20.359
didn't touch him at all. And he said, no, I still

01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:23.359
swear on my daughter's life. Which Erickson scored

01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:28.199
a free kick. And Kane is claiming the goal. just

01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:30.699
to kind of fuck over erickson and they're interviewing

01:09:30.699 --> 01:09:33.199
erickson and erickson is like has an awkward

01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:36.000
smile on and he's like uh yeah i think carrie

01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:37.899
touched it you know because what else is he going

01:09:37.899 --> 01:09:41.020
to say like no it's my goal yeah that's good

01:09:41.020 --> 01:09:44.449
i mean So he's being forced to be professional

01:09:44.449 --> 01:09:47.729
because Kane is being so childish. I think Ronaldo

01:09:47.729 --> 01:09:51.590
did something similar in the last World Cup.

01:09:51.810 --> 01:09:54.289
I would bring Ronaldo up, but most of that happened

01:09:54.289 --> 01:09:56.909
at Real Madrid. No, no, no, I'm saying just the

01:09:56.909 --> 01:09:58.930
incident you spoke of at the last World Cup.

01:09:58.970 --> 01:10:02.510
I remember Bruno Fernandes got the last touch

01:10:02.510 --> 01:10:05.430
on the header and Ronaldo was right behind him.

01:10:05.850 --> 01:10:08.710
And then Ronaldo ran off to celebrate as if he

01:10:08.710 --> 01:10:11.470
scored. And then the team followed him and Bruno

01:10:11.470 --> 01:10:16.069
was like celebrating on his own. I was like,

01:10:16.149 --> 01:10:20.189
damn, okay. All right, so that's kind of the

01:10:20.189 --> 01:10:23.750
reason why I suspect Spurs never won a trophy

01:10:23.750 --> 01:10:27.470
until he ran away to Bayern for a short thing

01:10:27.470 --> 01:10:30.170
and he still lost the Bundesliga to Bayer Leverkusen.

01:10:30.369 --> 01:10:35.180
But it's this hunger for goals. is a detriment

01:10:35.180 --> 01:10:37.960
to the team and another guy I would point out

01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:41.380
like that is Zlatan Ibrahimovic it would be like

01:10:41.380 --> 01:10:43.939
pass to me I'll score pass to me I'll score but

01:10:43.939 --> 01:10:46.939
when he left the Swedish national team they became

01:10:46.939 --> 01:10:49.079
better and they actually qualified for the the

01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:52.279
world cup when he they never qualified when he

01:10:52.279 --> 01:10:54.800
was part of the team yeah and then they qualified

01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:57.479
as soon as he left because once you have to actually

01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:00.319
rely on the team and team play instead of passing

01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:03.250
it to one player you become a more functional

01:11:03.250 --> 01:11:07.390
team. And Kane kept that Spurs team dysfunctional

01:11:07.390 --> 01:11:09.989
by saying, pass to me, pass to me. Having a function

01:11:09.989 --> 01:11:13.109
around him. He's also that type of player. I

01:11:13.109 --> 01:11:15.529
mean, you were saying the same thing about, I

01:11:15.529 --> 01:11:18.250
guess you were speaking of Salah earlier. The

01:11:18.250 --> 01:11:20.590
benefit of a player like Salah versus someone

01:11:20.590 --> 01:11:24.560
like Kane, I guess, is that Salah's... He doesn't

01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.460
always want the ball to his feet. He doesn't

01:11:27.460 --> 01:11:29.300
always want to join the play. He does make runs

01:11:29.300 --> 01:11:31.960
behind. He does open up space. Whether it's intentional

01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:36.060
or not is another question. But naturally, his

01:11:36.060 --> 01:11:39.520
inclination is towards being direct, getting

01:11:39.520 --> 01:11:41.539
towards the goal. Whereas Harry Kane, I think,

01:11:41.560 --> 01:11:44.189
follows the ball, follows the play. If you can

01:11:44.189 --> 01:11:46.409
do the things Messi does or Neymar does, that's

01:11:46.409 --> 01:11:49.350
fine. Like, OK, look, Barcelona doing it with

01:11:49.350 --> 01:11:52.470
Lamine, it's paying off because he's a sensational

01:11:52.470 --> 01:11:54.810
footballer who can play at all angles, play at

01:11:54.810 --> 01:11:58.390
every area on the pitch to the same degree. But

01:11:58.390 --> 01:12:00.430
it doesn't make sense. I think, like you were

01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.949
saying in our earlier episodes, I think Bayern,

01:12:04.109 --> 01:12:07.529
they haven't really been tested. So I think it's

01:12:07.529 --> 01:12:09.369
kind of they've allowed the team to be built

01:12:09.369 --> 01:12:11.850
around Harry Kane and at the time it's kind of

01:12:11.850 --> 01:12:14.460
paying off. We'll see. Real Madrid are picking

01:12:14.460 --> 01:12:17.680
up form against Real Madrid if maybe those things

01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:19.680
of like centering the team around Harry Kane

01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:23.220
if those demons come back up you know absolutely

01:12:23.220 --> 01:12:27.720
any other people you want to bring up or talk

01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:30.739
about before we close up this episode I mean

01:12:30.739 --> 01:12:36.539
no one in particular I think maybe Haaland could

01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:38.899
be another one, but I think he's just a bit young

01:12:38.899 --> 01:12:42.300
down the path of like, obviously he is one of

01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:44.539
the best number nines in the world. Another stat

01:12:44.539 --> 01:12:47.460
padder. But people talking of him as the generational

01:12:47.460 --> 01:12:50.159
talent, as the best talent of his generation.

01:12:52.100 --> 01:12:56.359
Nah. Okay. Well, thank you for listening. Please

01:12:56.359 --> 01:12:59.600
remember to rate, review, subscribe, give a like,

01:12:59.739 --> 01:13:02.880
etc. Importantly, it needs to be a five -star

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01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:09.640
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