And welcome to PD Football on our maiden voyage.
My name is Presh. My name is Darren. And how
are you feeling today, man? I'm good, man. I'm
good. Arsenal won. So, I guess in footballing
terms, I wouldn't say they're as good as they
can be. I would have liked to have kept a clean
sheet, but thankfully it's not the league. So,
what about you? How's everything on your end?
kind of all over the place but we don't need
to get to that well more like you attuned to
my football club my football club is all over
the place so certainly i'm all over the place
uh but uh yeah so the agenda i've set for today
is the first of all the caribou cup games uh
and i want to start with newcastle versus manchester
city newcastle man city what did you what did
you make of it or Alright, well, before the match,
I just thought that Newcastle could get a lot
of joy out of the wings. Because Man City have
been playing this incredibly narrow Christmas
tree formation. They play three in the middle,
two inside forwards and a striker. Yeah. Right,
so they leave a lot of space. I mean, I guess
the fullbacks then have a long distance to cover.
Yes, that's true. Because they have to press
the other fullback as opposed to the winger.
And at least in the first half, this is where
Newcastle found their space. I counted three
times when Newcastle got in behind Nathan Ake
and put in early crosses. But unfortunately,
none of them produced a goal. Yeah, I do remember
as well. I mean, Newcastle started really well,
or at least it seemed like. I think the pressing
structure, I think Nunes had too much ground
to cover. And he looked lost for a lot of the
maybe first 10 or 15 minutes. I think they kind
of exploited Nunes. They looked to play, to build
up on the left a lot. At least... Who are you
saying? Man City. Oh, no. I'm sorry. Newcastle.
Exploited Nunes. Sorry, my bad. Okay, yes. And
I noticed that they did build up on the left
a lot. And they looked to kind of release the
ball quickly to the right as well. Once the space
was created. But I think... Well, I disagree.
I think the space came in from their right. uh
cities left from cities left so nathan ak he
was like a little bit forward and jacob murphy
got in on behind on him three times in the first
half yeah but uh i mean the the first phase of
the build -up was usually on the left to create
space for murphy i think because it was it was
a lot of long balls going yeah yes but but i'm
saying what i was looking at was that he ak got
caught out three times he's the experienced player
he shouldn't be because o'reilly was their left
back right O 'Reilly played in midfield, yes,
two nights ago when it was, right? He played
at CDM. So I was like, okay, Nathan Ackie is
going to give them a little bit more defensive
stability. And he just didn't. And what saved
them, I think, is two things. First is Johan
Wisser just didn't have his shooting boots on.
Yeah, that's true. He just wasn't at it, at least
for the first half. Clems Trafford played decently,
though, as well. And secondly, the defensive
work of Max Allain. I've never heard of this
chap before. Me neither. But he apparently is
from the Youth Academy. He was on loan at Watford.
I've read about him, yeah. They recalled him
on his loan from Watford. So, again, I've never
heard of him before, but he put in a good shift.
He was very good at that, at getting back to
defend. But more impressive is he's like going
forward. He looked like John Stones. oh yeah
he's one of your favourites yes I love John Stones
bro and like they've just got a John Stones region
just coming through just casually bro it's very
it's not nice I mean it's nice for football I
guess to have another John Stones but it's not
nice if you're a City rival another thing I noticed
is that City were playing out of Newcastle's
press A possible reason for this is that three
days earlier, Newcastle played 120 minutes in
the FA Cup against Bournemouth. So they looked
a little bit tired. They looked a bit... Like,
their press didn't catch City out once, I don't
think. Yeah, I think Newcastle went man -to -man.
They generally always go man -to -man as well.
I don't think they were very zonal at all. That
usually plays into Man City's hands. I think
Man City struggled against Arsenal a bit, at
least recently. I think because we hardly go
man -to -man. We're very zone -wide, except goal
kicks. I think we go man -to -man on goal kicks.
But I think once they turned it into a man -to
-man battle, it also made the long ball an easier
option for Man City. Because Haaland and Semenyo
could dominate, I think, physically. It was like
they were winning every duel, almost every second
ball, from what I noticed. Especially once they
kind of stopped, like you said, playing so narrow.
And I guess they allowed Semenyo to press Newcastle's
left back, Hall. Like, Lewis Hall. And I think
once that happened, Lewis Hall's passing also
became a lot more erratic. And Man City were
able to force more errors. Well, it is something
I noticed. We, okay, Slot has been trying to
transition. Okay, I'm a local fan, I should say.
Slot has been trying to transition us into a
possession -based team, but we still press quite
a bit. And I was, the only team that really turned
us over this year was Man City. And they're very
good at breaking a press on their own. But I
just thought Newcastle's press wasn't at it either.
So both those things in mind, City were just
kind of just doing whatever the fuck they...
well, excuse me, City were just doing whatever
they wanted in midfield. So I was, you know,
that's just not good enough from City, from Newcastle,
excuse me. But again, like I said, they played
in the FA Cup, so how much blame can we portion
onto them? Or could we say that Eddie Howe should
be more practical and realize that you can't
press high every game? for 120 minutes. You've
got to, you know, be more tactical and, like,
be more possession -based in certain games so
you can conserve that energy. Yeah, that would
make sense for a team like Newcastle because
with Man City, I guess, in a weird way, they're
playing more like Liverpool in the past right
now. Liverpool and City are just trying to copy
each other. They're switching styles now. Almost
like they're... We're both, like, midway through
a transition into the other and we're both...
like two ugly ducklings. We're just not looking
at it. City look better than us, but yeah, I
digress. I think they're still very flawed defensively.
I think Man City really will rely this season
a lot on outscoring their opponents by having
to score three or four goals. I don't think they're
going to keep many clean sheets in terms of over
the whole season. I think this also was kind
of evident in the way they kind of trained style,
I guess. Because I think Pep did it mid -season.
If you remember the game against Arsenal, he
kind of sat back. And he parked the bus. He's
never done that before. And I think he hated
it. Although I would say in like the 90 -something
minute, they all pushed up. And I'm like, that's
a team that's never parked the bus in their lives
before. They looked confused. So naive. But they
did it well for most of the game. And I mean,
the one time they pressed up, we caught them
out. Yes. All right. Sorry. Back to the game.
In terms of City's threat, at least in the first
half. Doku was beating Lewis Smiley, who was
playing as a makeshift right back, because they
don't have Levermento. I'm not exactly sure what
happened to him, if he suspended or injured or
whatever, but he wasn't playing. Yeah. So, yeah.
And even though he was just beating him, he wasn't
delivering any good service from these situations,
which is very frustrating. If I'm a City fan,
I'll look at Doku and I'm like, what the fuck
is going on here? I mean, I guess that's always
been the... The question to his game is the technical
security when it comes to the final third. He's
probably one of the, if not the best dribbler
in the Premier League right now, but often his
output is still way below other players who would
have that ability. I actually went in to do some
research and I found out that he has one goal
and four assists in 18 games a season. goal involvements
in 18 games so once every three and a half games
he you know contributes this is only for the
premier league there's not overall competitions
i should mention right so basically that's not
good enough for a team of cities ambition one
goal or one involvement every cup every three
and a half games right but then i checked his
expected stats and which is the underlying stats
that are punning his performances uh i just want
to go through them quickly if that's uh all right
before we go back to doku so do you know what
expected goals is yeah i'm aware of x3 okay so
i just want to educate our listeners uh just
to make sure everyone's on the same page right
expected goals i often see it being used incorrectly
if say doku has generated two expected goals
that doesn't mean he should have scored two goals
that means an average player given that situation
or given those situations would score two goals
if doku scores zero goals that means he's underperforming
uh or he's a uh what would the the word be he's
a below average finisher but say he scores four
goals from two expected goals he's an above average
finisher right but and i should say and xg should
not be used over one game xg should be judged
over a number of games preferably even seasons
yeah to see like is this player a chronic underperformer
are they do they sometimes underperform sometimes
overperform is the you know what is the the long
-term data saying about this player right so
when i first came into uh contact with the stat
expected goals or expected uh you know there's
assists there's goal involvements whatever whatever
right the advanced stats the person i the example
that stuck with me was lionel messi he was outscoring
his goals these are only goals right i was talking
about goal involvements for doku this is only
goals for messi right messi outscored his goals
by five to ten every season right which indicates
he's an elite player because he outscores by
a huge margin what the average player would do.
Lewandowski, another one. He always finishes
much higher than what his expected goals are
because he's an elite finisher. Yeah, I mean,
in the Premier League, someone who was in a similar
situation was Son. I remember during his time
at Tottenham, he outperformed his expected goals.
Yes, because he's an elite finisher. Yeah. Right?
So, okay, bringing this back to Doku. This season,
he has generated nine expected goal involvements.
This is goals plus assists, expected goals plus
assists. And he's actually returned four. So
he's underperforming goal involvements by five,
which tells me that's a poor player. But again,
we should judge this over many seasons. And in
his first season, he underperformed by one goal
involvement. His second season, he overperformed
by one goal involvement. This season, he's underperforming
by five. So that tells me he's just below average.
The rest of the season, things will equal out,
and he'll probably end up like one or two within
his expected goals. So why did I mention this?
I just don't rate Doku. And I wanted to use some
stats just to justify why I don't like him. And
following on from him not putting in quality
service into the box, I just think Haaland looked
frustrated for a lot of the game, right? And
when he dropped deep to link up play, to, you
know, actually get on the ball and, you know,
do some stuff, he was poor. And after the game,
Pep said, quote, hopefully Mahmoud returns soon
to give Haaland a rest because Haaland is exhausted.
So, you know, clearly Pep is saying that his...
Poor form is due to exhaustion. Or do you think
his fundamentals aren't that great? Well, I don't
know with Haaland. Because I previously thought
maybe his fundamentals aren't good. But not to
drift off the Premier League. But he kind of
single -handedly got Norway to the World Cup.
And that I think... All the stats I've seen and
the metrics, the games I've watched and the highlights,
it is a crazy achievement. And I think you can't
do that off of just being a player that relies
on your teammates. Yeah, but, okay, you mentioned
goals and contribution. I'm saying link -up play.
Yeah, specifically, too, is link -up play. I
think he keeps getting better at everything.
Like, I would say he is now one of the best strikers
in the Premier League at link -up play as well.
I wouldn't say you could necessarily drop him
in that regard. The amount of chances he creates
and the amount of assists he gets is still above
most number nines, probably in Europe generally.
I agree with his output, but I'm just saying
I haven't been convinced with his interplay,
especially in the big games when he's required
more time in the ball. I don't think it matches
his output, but I think it's still above average
where... it doesn't make sense to drop him or
play him in a different position. That would
just be what I would think, personally. Because
I think he's still probably the best player in
the league in terms of, if you have him in your
team, you have the highest chance of winning.
For me, personally. Alright. So anyway, those
are my thoughts in the first half. Because at
halftime, I left my cousin's house to go home.
But I stopped to get some food as well, and I
missed a large portion of the second half. Oh,
that's why you asked me, did I watch the second
half? I thought you were working, bro. My remaining
thoughts are purely based on highlights now.
I can't tell you about the patterns of play that
happened in the second half or anything like
that. All I can say is that early on in the second
half, Doku beats Miley and puts in a cross. The
cross is deflected, and Semenu has a tap. But
based off of what you're saying about Doku, I
know you don't rate Salah as well, but in terms
of... Salah's probably had two of the greatest
Premier League seasons of all time now. Do you
think Doku could potentially have seasons that
still win Man City things? Is it worth it to
keep him? Like, we've had players that have underperformed
these metrics before but have gone on to overperform
them at a later stage in their careers. Because
I still see him... You could use him either way.
if he's willing to be an impact player i wouldn't
i wouldn't get rid of him necessarily so i wouldn't
say i don't rate him but i don't rate him necessarily
as one of the best players in the league but
i think as an impact player he could be one of
the best impact players because he has the ability
to shift the momentum of games like just through
what he does with the ball I think it's an unfair
comparison with Salah because Salah is more of
a finisher. Doku is more of a creator. Yeah,
but he could even peak in creativity. I'm just
saying he could be a late bloomer in essence
more than I'm saying it's necessarily specific
to possession. But he has a lot of the fundamentals
to be a good creative player in my mind or one
of the top players. If his final pass, like you
said, was good, if just like... Salah was always
getting in positions to score. It was clear that
if he became an elite finisher, he would score
and assist a high number of goals. So I'm saying
you don't see that Doku could get a high number
of assists if he eventually gets the final pass
right? No. Because I don't think he will get
the final pass right. The reason being, the one
thing I don't think you can coach is good decision
making. It just boils down to the player themselves.
And that also comes with experience. But you
could put them in a system that limits their
decision -making. You could. I agree with that.
But if he's a creative player, you want him to
kind of just do what you want him to do. That's
not always what Pep wants. That's true. I understand
that. But I'm saying, Doku, his decision -making
is so poor, I don't know what could make him...
You would think an elite coach like Pep would...
fine -tuned you know his uh good points and you
know iron out the bad points you would turn him
into like a sterling or uh even a sani i understand
they physically they're different but uh you
know i'm talking about output right i just doku
he's had his chance it's been three years now
and i just don't think uh now what we talk about
with salah i think Okay, I don't want to slam
Salah in the first episode too badly because
Liverpool fans love him. I love him. His output
justifies a lot of the nonsense that he does.
For example, not tracking back enough. people
online will pick like one moment out where he
tracked back once and be like, oh, there you
have it. Oh, look at you. You thought he doesn't
track back, do you? Look at this. And I'm like,
oh, wow, you caught me. Don't I look like a fool?
But the fact of the matter is he doesn't do enough
defensive work. He doesn't beat his men regularly.
But none of that comes down to decision making.
That's just his... I don't think his body can...
beat a man anymore I don't think he has the pace
for it that's one thing so Salah and Doku are
very different players I just don't think that's
a fair comparison and it comes down to decision
making which is not something I can't quantify
or say oh Salah is a 9 out of 10 decision making
Doku has a 5 out of 10 you know it's like you
see it when you see it you know it you know what
I'm saying yeah I mean I'm just I think he could
be like It could be a fair comparison in the
sense of I think he could become a very effective
player if Pep Guardiola plays the way he wants
to play or the way he has played historically.
And I think he probably signed Doku in that context.
And I think since he's working with Pep Llanders,
his philosophy has evolved. So, well, whether
it's evolved or devolved, that's up to your personal
interpretation of it. But I do think he should
be, like, I think he can be, me personally, a
top player if his decision -making is limited.
Everyone feels that, bro. That's the popular
consensus around Doku. I just don't think that's
ever going to happen. But we're getting too bogged
down in this. The next thing is that there was
a goal disallowed by VAR, a goal by Sabeno. Yeah,
that was a ridiculous decision. How so? I mean,
was Haaland interfering with play? Does it have
to delay for five minutes? I don't think so.
So the commentator on the highlights that I was
watching said VAR is ruining the game or something
like that. I don't think it's ruining the game.
No, I mean, not the game as in football, the
game as in that particular game. Because it took
so long to come to a decision. It was such a
marginal call. It was very subjective. But the
rules are the rules, right? He was standing in
an offside position, or at least his leg was
offside. But did he affect play, though? He stopped
the person from diving to, you know, the person,
the defender was in a position to perhaps dive
and stop the ball. Maybe. But he was in the way.
We're going to say maybe, but... Okay, yeah.
Corey, carry on. No, I just... I think it was
like... Like, it's a weird decision to scrutinize.
That's just my thing, because it's not like...
Well, every decision should be scrutinized. You
know, this is top -level football. Yeah, but
then they should, like, do, like, how many times
has that probably not been noticed and won't
be noticed? Let's put a pin in that. I'll come
back to that. Because I think, like, it's hard
to say whether he was affecting play or not,
but if it was... But it's subjective, right?
And if the referee feels that way, then... Yeah,
that's the referee's opinion, but I don't...
But the referee is following guidelines to get
to that decision. So I just don't get it. The
Premier League referees follow their own guidelines.
Okay, but I'm just saying, I just don't get it.
It's the rules. The referee is well and within
his rights to give that decision. You may dislike
it, but it is what it is. Yeah, it is what it
is, but I think that if it was a more important
game... If, like, if... The referee came out
and apologized the next game, you know, in the
media and said, you know, I got it massively
wrong or something. That's the only time I'll
ever be like, oh. I don't always agree with the
referees or trust what they're saying. So, you
know, I'm an Arsenal fan, so you know Wenger's
history with referees and I share Guardiola's
fury if I was a Man City fan. What is Guardiola's
theory? No, he's Fury. So he was angry. He was
very angry at the referee. Sorry, sorry. I'm
assert. Okay, the last thing I want to say is
Cherki had some excellent interplay with Ait
Nouri for their second goal. Once again, the
space was on Newcastle's right -hand side. Lewis
Miley got done and City exploited it. So what
do you think of Cherki? Fucking ex... Excuse
me. Excellent player. But then... Okay, wouldn't
he be like a technically creative version of
Salah? Because how long will you take his defensive
output? Because I did watch a lot of him at Lyon.
And even if he works a little bit defensively
now, he's not going to do it for very long. And
I don't think he's going to be a player. I think
he's going to be a player that just wants to
do his own thing and attack. I don't know, do
you want me to be a hypocrite right now? Because
sometimes if a player is just at the peak of
their power doing a madness, they shouldn't be
burdened with so much defensive responsibilities.
But playing at 10, or like an inside 10 where
Chucky is and a winger where Salah is, is also,
you know, the places on the pitch are different
and require different responsibility. The midfield
is already kind of packed, so... you know a 10
a creative 10 doesn't have to do that much work
in midfield whereas a winger has to there has
a much bigger space to cover you know what i'm
saying so turkey by nature of the players has
less defensive responsibilities so he can focus
more on creating where salah has the type of
player he that love will need him to be he isn't
doing and his output is not justifying not doing
those fundamentals but this i mean a lot a lot
of i guess his future would be dependent on how
pep wants to play if he's at man city and if
it still is pep wait who are we talking about
uh shirky oh yes okay sorry excuse me i thought
we were talking about no with shirky i think
a lot of his future would depend because if My
assumption is, and we'll speak about the managerial
merry -go -round later, but my assumption is
that if Pep Guardiola stays at Manchester City,
he's going to want to go back to playing the
way he always plays. And I don't think he would
accept that out of any player. Even if you look
at Arsenal now, who are very influenced by Guardiola,
at least in terms of how we press. Odegaard leads
the press a lot of the time, which is why I told
you in our personal discussions, it would be
hard for me to replace him with a player with
great output because I've seen Ozil and Aubameyang
in that system and it drops off quite a lot when
the work rate drops off. And I think that's the
way Pep wants to play. That's the way a lot of
Spanish coaches generally want to play. I think
most people with a brain... would take the player,
all things being equal, the player that works
harder, right? Nobody's ever going to choose
the lazier player. Even though the lazier player
might be more talented, it's always about work.
Like, that's why Conor Gallagher has a career.
That's why Mason Mount has a career. A lot of
these guys, Jordan Henderson, fraud. Absolute
fraud. Frauded for 12 years in our team. And,
yeah. That's how you get a career, by working
hard, bro. I don't know why we were talking about
that. Oh, no, we were just talking about you
being a hypocrite with Cherki and Salah. Yes.
Cherki, by virtue of his position, requires less
defensive work, and I think the output that he's
doing right now is not close to the output Salah
was doing last year. Are you being serious right
now? No. Cherki has eight assists. Yeah, and
how many... That's fucked. I mean, that's crazy.
But it's halfway through the season. How many
did Salah have last year? But he's been injured
for most of it. He missed like 8 games. But I
mean, we've seen... 8 assists in like 10 games
is... I mean, no, in like 12 games. That's pretty
crazy. It is pretty crazy, but it's not like...
It's not like ridiculous numbers. Didn't Salah
get more assists last season? In less games?
Again, it's such an unfair comparison. The expectation
of Salah as our quote -unquote franchise player,
to borrow a term from NBA, and Turkey was just
a new signing, and the output that each of them
are doing... No, I'm saying you're saying Turkey's
quality equates to him being able to be carried
by the team. But I think you can only have...
Okay, let's take Turkey out of it, right? Let's
look at Liverpool. Wurz has less defensive responsibilities
than Salah, right? Yeah. And I think that should
be the case because he should be focused on chance
creation, breaking the line, you know, creating.
Yeah. So use Wurz as an example, not Chucky,
because that's a... In terms of historically,
though, I'm talking about, I think, Salah's output
and just his ability to score goals. is worth
the team carrying him if you can have one player.
His output is not justifying it at the moment.
So I'm sick of this. Anyway, we'll get back to
it. You've always thought he was a fraud. What
are the predictions for the second leg of this
tie? Newcastle versus Man City. I think Arsenal
and Man City get through. No, just this particular
tie. I think it depends. If Man City play a full
team, I think they get another comfortable victory.
Yes. Newcastle's record at the Etihad is awful.
And they look tired. A second leg doesn't suit
either team. I think of any of the four remaining
Caribou contestants. I hate the second leg. I
mean, if they cancelled extra time, why couldn't
they cancel the second legs? I don't know. I'm
not the person in charge. But yes, it doesn't
look good for Newcastle. They did have some good
situations in the game if, you know, Wisser had
his shooting boots on. And I have to say, Wisser
has only been six games, but he hasn't, you know,
lit the world on fire. The point of buying Wisser
was that he's a Premier League proven player.
He can just plug and play. He'll come in and
do the job to a slighter less extent than what
Isaac did. He would just come in and do the exact
same job. And he has not done that at all. I
mean, Isaac was very good at Newcastle, so a
slightly less extent would still be... Like,
say Isaac was like a 9 out of 10 player at Newcastle.
Are you saying that you would have expected what
Voldemort is doing out of Weser as well? I would
have... No, I would have expected Weser to be
like a 7 or 8 out of 10. But he hasn't... I haven't
watched much of Newcastle this season. Because,
like I said, he's been injured, so he only started
six games now. Yeah. And... Yeah, so Wissa, if
you can get it together, I hope you nail Sati
to the fucking window. All right, let's go on
to our next segment, Chelsea versus Arsenal.
So in terms of Chelsea, I had no idea what to
expect. I'd never heard of their new coach, Liam
Rossignol, and how he likes to set up a team.
The first thing I learned is that he likes to
play out from the back. because Arsenal's press
nearly caught them out a few times, yet he persisted
with playing out from the back. The other thing
is that they were missing Rhys James, Caicedo
and Palmer, which you could comfortably say are
three of their best players. Probably their three
best players, but I mean, if you spent £2 billion...
No, I'm not making excuses. I'm just, you know,
giving context for the game. Yeah, no, I'm not
making excuses either. I'm just saying it's...
It requires a level of empathy, but they should
have a lot of options at that value of squad
assembly. Andre Santos was a capable replacement
for Coseiro. I'm not going to say he's as good
or better, but he's capable. Who else played?
Jao Pedro played in the 10. Who played in the
10? Because De Lappe started up front, right?
Let me double check. Yeah, De Lappe and Raul
Pedro. Yeah, so Pedro was in the 10. Yeah. So
I'm looking at it now. Gueye. Gueye started up
front. Pedro in the 10. So... Pedro is a reasonable
replacement for Palmer. And Action Pong is the
restrained replacement. I've never seen Action
Pong play. And I love... Esteval is one of my
favourite players. Well, I watched him a lot
in Brazil. I watched the Brazilian league more.
Not more than the Premier League, but enough
to say that he was probably my favourite player
there. He was good yesterday. He was the player
who scared me the most as an Arsenal fan. I think
he gave Timba a hard time, but Timba also exploited
his inexperience a lot going the other way. So,
from Arsenal's side, they more or less had a
full -strength team. You'd obviously say Raya
instead of Kepa, and you'd maybe say Calafiori
instead of Ben White, and then swap. And Havertz
instead of Jokiris. That's your opinion. I think
that would be full -strength, though. Okay, okay.
But I think the general opinion is that Jokiris
starts ahead of Havertz. Is that the general
opinion? I think so, but... You know, you more
tapped into the Arsenal fanbase, I would think,
right? Yeah, I would think most people were waiting
for Havertz. They've never been available at
the same time. Okay. So, yeah, I initially thought
for the first goal, I thought Sanchez was at
fault for it. He, like, just totally messed up
his lines. But I've re -watched it a few times
now, you know, in highlights. And Trossard is
stopping him from going for it. Trossard is right
up on him. And it stops him from jumping to...
To clever tactic. Clever tactic. It is. All right.
All right. But I would... He didn't move, did
he? He held his position. Sanchez should have
done something to get out of the way. To get
to the ball sooner. We were speaking about something
in the other match. You said... I'm also a hypocrite.
I don't know what it is. I was saying about VAR.
VAR should have intervened for the first goal,
I feel. I really felt that way. But yeah, it
was a good delivery from Rice. And then the rest
of the first half just pretty much goes out without
any fuss. It was very quiet. Just no good interplay
between the players, you know, to get forward.
No, like, real precision in attack. It was just
kind of the ball getting lost in midfield with
both teams. There weren't any final product.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I thought
Saka created a lot of space. He created a lot
of chances. In the first half. And Ben White
as well. Not necessarily in the first half. I'm
only speaking about the first half. But I thought
Tucker created a lot of opportunities where players
didn't read him. They weren't on his wavelength.
He made a lot of spaces. A lot of passes as well
that didn't kind of get to anyone. I felt he
was threatening. Yeah, so at halftime... Okay,
spoiler alert. Not spoiler alert. twist I was
at your house this whole time to watch this game
and I left at half time of the Chelsea Arsenal
game and when I got home I was just so tired
I went to bed so you're going to have to leave
the discussion on the rest of this Chelsea vs
Arsenal game I think in the like well Arsenal
did kind of dominate the first half as chaotic
as it was I don't think Chelsea created really
anything In the second half, I think they started
to dominate possession a bit. They started to
pass the ball around quite well. I think Enzo
Fernandes was really good in some phases of play,
like some of his passing, his diagonals, his
line -breaking passes were also really good.
And I think Estevao was really, really good for
10 or 15 minutes where we couldn't control him.
But I think overall, Saliba was so good. that
uh like unless it was like moments of individual
brilliance our own errors they didn't really
create anything i think both of their goals came
off of errors by us giving the ball directly
to them i think uh the first goal i can't remember
who it was i think it was uh zuba mendy i'm not
100 sure he makes like a shitty clearance that
lands at uh Sorry about that. Sorry about that.
It makes a bad clearance that ends at the feet
of Enzo Fernandes and I think the attack starts.
Someone passes it to Enzo Fernandes but yeah,
then after that the ball kind of ends up at Garnaccio
and it was a good finish but it came off our
error. And the second goal also, I think it was
Timber. Headed the ball, a bad -headed clearance
over corner, and a good finish again. But I think
our central defensive partnership and Rice are
so good defensively. It's like your guys' front
three in a defensive context seasons ago. I struggle
to see many teams breaking us down, unless maybe
they have a De Bruyne in the past. What do you
mean, break you down? Like, in terms of create
more chances than us in a game. I don't think
a team has had better XG than us this season,
except Man United in the first game, which was,
I think we were just terrible that game. But
I think there was one other game, maybe Brighton,
the 2 -2 draw, where they created more XG than
us. But we just had this discussion about XG,
that it's not about should, right? Say, if Arsenal
out... perform in xg the other team in it that
doesn't necessarily mean they should have won
it just means they had better quality chances
yeah and we do win most of the games since the
last two seasons i think or three seasons yeah
but i'm saying winning on xg quote unquote winning
on xg is not uh should does not indicate that
you should have won the match because an elite
team only needs one shot one go one opportunity
yeah but in terms of The XG we give away sometimes
is next to nothing, even against Europe's top
teams. Yeah, Bayern had one shot. And there hasn't
been a game yet except Aston Villa where our
opponents have really outperformed us, I would
say. I don't even think Aston Villa outperformed
us, really. It was a terrible game where they
had the better of it. I wouldn't say that they
created anything. One was like a Morgan Rodgers,
another one of his crazy goals, I think. I don't
remember the other goal too clearly. I see. Any
other patterns or things you noticed in this
game? I noticed that a lot of Chelsea's patterns,
I think the way they got themselves back into
the game was kind of reverting back to like Mariska's
football. Like they kind of went with the 5 -3
-2, I mean the 3 -2 -5, 2 -3 -5, sorry. I'm getting
my numbers wrong. But yeah, they went with the
2 -3 -5 in possession. And I think that helped
Enzo Fernandes a lot. So I think Chelsea passed
the ball around more, but we still looked more
dangerous. I think we were comfortable kind of
like... picking the gaps in the field i would
say that we like still gave the ball away sloppy
at times but if there's a problem i have with
arsenals that we we tend to to protect the lead
more than try double or triple it but it's not
necessarily a problem because i can't say it
hasn't worked yet like I'm not someone who thinks
it would have made a difference. I think Man
City were honestly better than us the two seasons
we lost the league. We were so far behind you
guys last season. I don't think those small marginal
gains would have made a difference. I think in
this season we've been the best team so far.
From a coaching perspective, I don't fully agree
with it. I think that's more maybe... Arteta's
maybe Moy's side coming out. But I don't mind
it as long as I enjoy the football. And it's
given me a different understanding of defending.
But in terms of the game, I wouldn't say any
of Arsenal's patterns were new. In fact, I think
Zubamendi, a lot of Arsenal's good play in the
second half was individual brilliance from Zubamendi
in terms of his passing, his dribbling, his interceptions.
He's carrying the ball as well. He was probably
my man of the match, honestly. Zubamendi? Zubamendi,
yeah. Any thoughts or predictions for the second
leg? I think Arsenal will win more comfortably
in the second leg. Probably like a 2 -0, 3 -0
as well. Why is that? Because we're really good
at home. I think we don't look as nervous. When
we went 3 -1 up... I knew we were going to sit
back and I knew that Chelsea would create some
stuff. I didn't expect Garnaccio to be the scorer
because it looked like Esteval was going to be
the one to drag them back into the game. Even
when it went 3 -2, he really scared me. So I
would say that maybe Cole Palmer being back worries
me a bit. Rhys James. Caicedo? Caicedo was suspended,
so he's definitely back. The other two were injured,
so I'm not sure. Oh, so they won't be back. I
mean, they might be, but I'm saying I'm not sure.
Caicedo, I mean, if Enzo Fernandes plays the
way he does, he obviously makes a difference.
I think Caicedo is one of the best midfielders
in the world, but I don't think it'll be enough
for Chelsea to overcome Arsenal, especially with
the defensive problems right now. I think we
had like 17. 18 shots in the game, something
like that. 10 on target or something. Even though
we didn't play well, we consistently created
chances. You seem very bullish on Arsenal going
through the Arsenal vs City caribou final. Yeah.
I would venture to say so. What about you? I've
been reading online that Arsenal were lucky.
that Chelsea were really on them. Given, you
know, like, if Chelsea come out playing like
they did in the second half, in the second leg,
they'll easily turn over Arsenal. That's the
sentiment I've been seeing online. And this is
across fan bases. This is, like, United fans.
This is... I was looking at the post -match thread
in the Reddit on the soccer Reddit, so... It's
not like I'm picking from a bunch of biased people.
I mean, I don't know. I didn't feel threatened
watching the game. I read different dissertations
from different people as well. Of course. I'm
picking a small sample, you're picking a small
sample. I'm just trying to add to the conversation.
So what I've been seeing is that once Chelsea
really got at Arsenal, they couldn't deal with
the pressure. I mean, both their goals came from
our individual errors. It wasn't really moments
of the game where I'd say they just dominated
possession. Once again, I didn't watch the game,
so I'm just basing this off what other people
are saying. I guess people's interpretation could
be at a visual level, but we've seen that before.
I felt that Arsenal dominated before games against
Mourinho's Chelsea. And when you watch the games
back... you know that Mourinho's Chelsea had
a game plan that they executed. And I think people
constantly think of Oteta as being the student
of Pep, think that Arsenal are going to go blow
teams away, whereas I think Oteta is more like
Simeone and Mourinho. I think he locks the game
out. I see. I wouldn't share those sentiments
that Chelsea dominated the game. We had twice
as many shots. I wouldn't say they dominated
the game. Once they got at you, there were opportunities
for them. You weren't as, let's say, as imperious
as you would think Arsenal were. Yeah, I mean,
I would say the goals came off individual errors.
Maybe a Cole Palmer is going to... So do you
think that perhaps those individual errors came
around because Chelsea were pushing up so aggressively?
To a degree I think the momentum of the game
shifted and I think like Arsenal players became
a bit sloppy because like prior to that we were
also dominating and all the momentum was our
way. Also when it went 3 -1 I think the confidence
was like out of the stadium. The atmosphere went
dead for a couple of minutes until they scored
again. I don't know how many minutes it was.
In that moment, I knew Arsenal's game plan was
to sit back. Chelsea have highly technical players.
It's not like if you give them that space, they're
not going to come at you. But I've seen that.
I've seen that against Bayern Munich. I've seen
that against Man City. I've seen that against
you guys. We only lost one game to you guys,
I think. At first I would have thought that,
but I think Oteta's plan is to block out leads,
to block team spaces, to make it difficult for
them to play through, and then when we get the
ball, keep it for as long as we can. So I don't
think it's necessarily... I think in possession
it might be quite similar to Guardiola, but I
don't think out of possession the main aim is
to press the team high. If people are watching
a team pass the ball around... They're thinking,
oh, okay, this team's dominating the game. They're
pinning Arsenal back. But they're not really
making any passes that penetrate the defensive
line, unless it's like a moment of brilliance.
And I think a moment of brilliance is nothing
you can really legislate for from a coaching
perspective. I think it's just like, yeah, sometimes
a play is too good to stop. You'll just accept
that. All right. So, Jonah. Go on to our next
topic. Yeah. I think, no, I think this is called
the managerial merry -go -round. And I'm not
exactly sure what I want to do here. I just kind
of want to chat about managers. Because in the
last week or so, Enzo Maresca, Ruben Amaram,
and Xabi Alonso have all been sacked from their
respective jobs. And the majority of the current
Liverpool fan base want slot out. What do you
make of it? Do you think managers get the respect
they deserve? In terms of what? In terms of,
I guess, with the Alonzo one in particular, what's
your opinion on player power as affects the managerial?
I guess like a manager's security, job security.
I guess there's two conversations I would have
about Alonzo. First of all, he's just not good
enough. That's what you think. That's my opinion.
I didn't say any otherwise. That's my opinion.
I just don't think at the elite level he's ever
bested an elite coach. My evidence for this,
the Europa League final against the Ashlancha
guy, I forget his name, Gasparini, and against
Slott in the Champions League, we popped them
at Leverkusen's home turf, I believe. Or was
it at Anfield? Doesn't matter where it was. Wherever
it was, we popped them. Who was Bayern? Didn't
he beat Tuchel? No, Tuchel wasn't there when
he was at Bayern. Who was Bayern manager? Was
it not Kompany? No. Not yet. Nagelsmann? Yeah.
He's an elite tactician, isn't he? Sure, man.
But I'm just saying, in big games that I've watched,
I've always seen him get outlasted. And maybe
it's a small sample size, but... I disagree.
Like... I think Bayer Leverkusen were a somewhat
small team. So every game would have been him
punching up. And he won almost every game for
a season. Yeah, but then once you have your reputation,
you're not a small team anymore. Yeah, and he
didn't get a transfer. He left his choice. Maybe
it was the wrong decision. But I think people
should be allowed to make mistakes. Okay, but
whatever. I'm saying... He shouldn't be at Real
Madrid. That's the first conversation I'm going
to have. I don't think his talent level would
take Madrid to where they want to go. Second
of all, he's very inexperienced. Part of the
same conversation as being at Madrid. I don't
think they should have hired somebody so inexperienced.
The other conversation is player power. And that
is ridiculous. The player should not be dictating
who is the manager and who is not. To me, that
is ridiculous. I cannot fathom that. So, yes,
Alonso should have been sacked, but because he's
not good enough, not because the players wanted
it. Well, I disagree, obviously. Why is that
obvious? No, I mean, because we were discussing
it now. Yes. So, I think it made my stance obvious.
I have Raiden as a manager. I watched maybe like
seven or eight games of his Leverkusen team.
Most of them were like recaps. I mean, I watched
the whole games, but I didn't watch them live.
But I was really impressed with them. And I think,
like, look at Arsene Wenger, for example. It's
like, is he an elite tactician? Or is he an elite
coach if he didn't win everything every season?
I think there was a time where he was... where
he was elite, even if... That's not a fair judgment.
Yeah, I'm saying... If you win everything every
season, nobody's ever made that claim that you
have to win everything every season to be an
elite tactician. Yeah, and I don't necessarily
think Leverkusen's football dropped off that
drastically. Just the first season was so euphoric
that people weren't expecting... Like, they still
finished second. They still made the Champions
League. So it wasn't like... I didn't say he
was bad in the league. All I said was against
the really top elite tacticians. Yeah, but I'm
saying how can you dread someone off the first
two years of their coaching, three years of their
coaching? He also beat Hansi Flick. Look, I understand.
Go to, I don't know, just a Spurs. Get experience
there. Then go to, you know, maybe Inter Milan.
Then go to Real Madrid. Going to Real Madrid
straight out of Valle de Vicuzen, that was Madrid's
fault. But they've taken novice managers in the
past, or managers that had a small reputation.
I feel we're spending too much time on Alonso.
Like I said, I feel they were right to sack him
because he's not good enough. They should not
have consulted players about it. So, I've been
thinking about how to replace slot. And I think
that conversation... Are you assuming he's getting
sacked? I believe that he signed a two -year
contract. And we never re -upped the contract.
So at the end of the season, he's done. So we're
just going to kind of let it play out and then,
I assume, get a new manager in the summer. I
mean... Because we're not in danger of... Why
do you want to get rid of him, though? He's just
not good enough. That's where you and I differ.
I'm always like... With Unai Imre, that was the
only time I was impatient with the coach. And
maybe I was wrong, but I think... I just... I
didn't... Yeah, but listen, I don't understand
this mentality of like, let's give a coach work
experience. We're here to win trophies. We're
not here to... be this person's internship. Yeah,
so what's the guarantee that, like... Well, this
is what I'm going to get into now, right? So
we have to assume that Pep and Chilotti and Klopp
are out of the picture, right? Pep... The rumours
are that Pep is going to leave Man City at the
end of this season. Part of that is he part -owned
a restaurant in Manchester and that closed down.
That's one thing. He sold off a place he was
renting in the city. Something like that. Just
like outside of football things that people are
tying to him possibly leaving. CSI investigative
work. Yes, real life shit. Stuff I can't be involved
in. So yes, Pep is potentially leaving City and
we have to assume that he's out of the local
reach. I mean, I don't think he's a snake. So...
How is he a snake? No, I'm saying like... Sachi
and I... Sachi and us are not rivals. But you
guys were direct... Like they were your... No.
Everton are our rivals and United. No one else
are our rivals. But in that period... Competing
for a title is not a... It's like if Arsene Wenger
went to Manchester United after the Invincibles.
No, it's as if Ferguson went to Arsenal after
the treble. Either way, it would have been bad.
Yeah, but I'm saying we have to assume Pep is
out of the picture. Because if Pep were available...
Okay, would you be okay with Klopp going to City?
Yeah. I have no beef with City. Okay. Like I
said, I have beef with Everton and United. That's
it. Madrid. But yeah. Ancelotti, also out of
the picture. Because Everton. Everton ties. I
don't think he's a snake like that. You'd think
he would join Liverpool. He coached Juventus
as an AC Milan legend. Juventus and Milan are
not like... They were heavy enemies at the time.
Enemies, like... They were very big enemies at
the time. I don't know. And then he came back
to Milan as a coach. Okay, whatever the case
is, Pep and Slotty and Klopp have to be out of
the picture. I assume the majority of our fanbase
would take Klopp back in an instant. And that
cannot happen. Klopp had far too much power at
the club and that's what led to, you know, our
director of football leaving. Right, so... That
same director of football has come back and become
our CEO. His name is Michael Edwards. He's the
guy who masterminded our team under Klopp. Klopp
cannot come back in. He needs to be out of the
picture. Ancelotti needs to be out of the picture.
Pep needs to be out of the picture. Those are
three people that cannot be in the conversation.
Because all three of them would easily be first
choice, I would say, if they were on the table.
But what is the state of the... Okay, that's
irrelevant also. But I was going to say, I think
Ancelotti, can he develop a squad in the image
Liverpool require? I just think we have the squad
right now. Somebody needs to make use of that
squad. And what about defence? With Van Dijk
and Konate probably going to leave. We can buy
a better... We can buy players, bro. I just don't
understand this mentality of this person being
irreplaceable. So what if Slot goes deep in the
Champions League and finishes top three and wins
a cup? I don't think that's enough to save him.
It's not about you looking at the output and
basing. I'm looking at the process. The games
we're playing against smaller teams, he's not
tried anything and we're already out of ideas.
You know what I'm saying? I mean, I disagree,
but I understand where you're coming from. It's
very frustrating to watch Liverpool play. I'm
not slot out. I believe he can turn around. The
issue is the rest of the fan base is not as patient
as I am. That's why I believe his contract is
not going to be renewed. And we're going to be
looking for somebody else. And I'm worried that
we're going to go for Alonso. Like I just mentioned,
his negatives, why I don't want him. We need
to be competing for those big trophies. Him being
outfoxed by Gasparini and Slot is not a good
sign. But he outfoxed Hansi Flick. In what sense?
The classical. Like the last one. I mean, Barcelona
won yesterday, but the one before that. Did they
pump them? Like what? What was the scoreline?
It was 2 -1, but it was mostly the coaching that
won them the game. I don't know. I don't have
any information on that. I'll have to research
more and get back to you. But the three names
that have been coming to me that I'm... Because
I've been thinking about this for like three
weeks, three, four weeks now. So the first name
that has come to me is Enrique. This week, or
not this week, last week, he said in the press
that he hinted that he would like a new challenge
and that challenge would be in the Premier League.
And I think the most obvious thing would be for
City to go for him. But we're trying to gazump
City here. We don't want City to come in and
get the, you know, the best, not the best, but
the most attractive manager on the market for
what we're trying to do, right? Enrique would
be my number one because he's won the Champions
League multiple times. He knows how to work at
a big club. His style of football is very attractive
and, you know, the fan base would love it. The
only concern I have over him is that he's never
done it with a non -elite team. So his Barca
team that, you know, won the treble and then
the next season won the double, they had elite
players in every position. The PSG team that
just won the treble, elite players in every position.
He took a few risks there, though. Okay, but
at the end of the day, elite players in every
position. He's not going to have that luxury
at Liverpool all the time. We're obviously trying
to compete on that level now, move into a different
stratosphere of buying players, like buying Isaac,
buying Wurz, buying best -in -class players,
not buying potential that could explode. We're
buying the finished product now. I think Enrique
would be the guy to get the best out of that
crop of players. And if he's available, like
he hinted at, I think he should be our number
one target going into it. Do you have any thoughts
about Enrique? Yeah, I think I would say he's
one of the best coaches in the world. I'd say
Pep Guardiola is number one and Hansi Flick is
number two. I'd say he's number three just behind
them. My opinion. And, yeah, I mean, if any club
could get him, I wouldn't trade Arteta. I still
believe in him. Arsenal are the only of the big
six that aren't looking for a new manager. Even
Chelsea, having just gotten a new manager, might
be looking for a new one at the end of the...
Before Arsenal. So, yes. Any other thoughts about
Enrique? No, he's an elite coach. I hope he doesn't
go to you guys or Manchester United. We're here
to win, right? Slot, he won us the league. Thank
you. But you've shown that in the future, it's
unlikely that you will win us more leagues. We
need to be thinking forward. We can't be thinking
about past successes. We'll have to wait and
see about that. I think you guys are still in
the Champions League. Anything can happen. Alright,
fair enough. Second name I have is Thomas Tuchel.
He, for obvious reasons, he's probably going
to wait until after the World Cup to potentially
get a new job. So, and, you know, like, it's
kind of like an unwritten kind of thing that
you don't want to fuck up England's preparations
for the World Cup right now. Right? Especially
if you're an English team. So, he would also
be available in the summer, in the break. The
English summer? Yes, the English summer. So,
the pros of Tuchel, he took an underperforming
Chelsea squad where there wasn't a star in every
position, but he made it work. Turned them into
the best team in the world for six months. An
incredible defensive unit that could not be penetrated.
They were incredible. It was weird. They trained
overnight. They honestly became the best team
in the world for six months. So he has experience
with working with non -optimal players and turning
them into winners. At least in a cup sense. The
concern I have with him is that He played with
the back three and he was ugly sometimes. A lot
of parking the bus. Hitting them on the counter.
And not like fun countering. It was like pragmatic
countering. That's okay. I don't mind. He is
still my number two because he's such a winner.
He doesn't take shit from big names. He was at
PSG. His mentality. He took PSG to the Champions
League final. with a very inco... What's the
word? Non -cohesive team. Incohesive team. And
he made it work on many levels. I mean, they
were just... It was Hansi Flick in the end of
the day. What do you mean? They beat him. Oh,
yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, sorry. I forgot
about that. So yeah, Tuchel, he did eventually
win it with Chelsea. He's a winner. He knows
how to work with non -optimal squads. And he
knocked PSG out. Yes. My only concern is that
the football is ugly sometimes. But is that,
I guess, what he was working with at Chelsea?
I'd say his Dortmund had the opposite problem.
They were too entertaining but not good enough
defensively. I didn't watch enough of his document,
so I can't comment on that. But I can only comment
on what I saw at Chelsea. People thought Aubameyang
was one of the best strikers in the world. He
was one of the best strikers in the world, bro.
He did so well because, if I recall correctly,
I didn't watch these games in particular. I just
know the story of it, that Klopp's team kind
of fell apart. Tuchel is the one who came in,
rebuilt that squad, won the poker, their version
of the FA Cup. Kind of got Dortmund back on track.
Yeah, no, he did rebuild him. So, for squad building,
Tuchel, you know, he's also high on my list.
So, yes, that's my number two. Any thoughts about
Tuchel? I would... I rate him highly as well.
Like, again, I have the same... Some of the same
problems. Like, I don't like... Like, he falls
into the same bracket as Nzaghi. Like, I don't
like... Back three managers. But. I have been.
I have liked his teams. I like him for some reason.
Thomas Tuchel. And I like. I like the way he
speaks. As far as like. Would I want him. At
my club. Over Arteta. No. But if we didn't have.
Like if. If we had a managerial opening. I wouldn't
be. Upset with Tuchel. My third choice. Is Antonio
Conte. Again. Like. Tukul. When I say. Horror
football. Conte will play some. Dog shit football.
Sometimes. But. At the end of the day. He's a
winner. And. You know. Who's going to complain.
With a trophy in the end. Very few people. So.
Conte. He's like. Tukul light. But he hasn't.
Translated it to. Knockout football yet. That's
the thing. Tuchel hasn't won a league outside
of France, I believe. Conte hasn't won a continental
cup competition. So there's definite issues with
either one of them. But those are just the cream
of the crop that I see. He went to Napoli and
won the league with them. Yeah, he's one of the
best, I'd say. He can just organize the defense.
After Pep Guardiola, he's probably the best league
manager in the world. So, yeah, those are my
top three options. I just want to mention Oliver
Glasner. Why would I not pick him? Because he
hasn't been tested at the top level. Do you rate
him? I rate him. I rate him as a mid -table manager.
So you put him in what sort of bracket? Like
an Unai Emery bracket? Yeah, he can't do it at
a top job, but he can take a mid -table team
and do very well. Turn them into a European -level
team. Yes, that's my feelings about Glasner.
You also have to consider, at the moment, Palace
have a very thin squad. That's not his fault.
They're extremely tired. They're not performing
the way he wants them to because that's poor
squad building. That's not his tactics or management
that's doing that. But he won the Europa League
with Frankfurt, I believe. Yes. And he won the
FA Cup with Crystal Palace. So he's a proven
winner, right? My concern is that he does it
when there's no pressure on him. At a big club,
there's infinitely more pressure on, like, every
small detail gets scrutinized, right? Whereas
Palace, he can make mistakes and he... Let me
just pull up there. Their form at the moment.
Let's see. So, Palace lost to Macclesfield, which
is a team that was created after the year 2010.
Oh, okay. I played in Macclesfield town with
the FIFA pro. They drew with Aston Villa. Okay,
decent result. They lost to Newcastle. They drew
with Fulham. They lost to Arsenal in the EFL,
but on penalties, so, you know, that's pretty
good, though. If you take them to penalties and
lose on penalties, that's not a... What about
Unai Emery? Well, you can speak about him after
that. All right, but I'm just saying the pressure
of a big club, Glaston hasn't faced that, and
I don't think he would survive under scrutiny.
Yeah. Emery, same thing. I just don't believe
he would... You know, we've seen him at Arsenal.
He didn't... You know, you make this point all
the time. I understand this is our first episode,
but I just want to say all that Darren does is
talk about how Emery can't take a top club, you
know, like a top four club and turn them into
champions. He can only turn a mid -table club
into a Europa -level team or a Europe -level
team. He can turn any team into a European -level
team. I think in that context, he's one of the
best coaches in the world. Like, there's very
few coaches who could have Aston Villa in a Champions
League position. Even elite coaches. Like, I
don't think Ancelotti could, for example, get
Aston Villa to the Champions League with that
squad. We saw at Everton he almost got relegated.
He did well at Everton, I'm pretty sure. He almost
got relegated when he left. They were, like,
in the relegation zone by his second season.
I just remember them really loving Ancelotti.
When he first arrived, yeah, I think they played
some good football and then things went pear
-shaped. Alright, yeah. But again, at Bayern
Munich, he struggled. They didn't have an elite
squad at the time. Well, I just remember that
the Bayern... players were upset that they went
from pep who was like highly regimented and like
you know very focused on fitness and like you
know the highest food quality etc and then you
have like ancelotti and his team that were chain
smoking they were chain smoking every practice
him and the team that's how i would coach uh
so yeah uh do you have anything else I love him.
He's probably one of my favourite people in football
ever. But in terms of... He's a ceiling raiser.
I don't think he can raise the floor. I think
Unai Emery can raise a floor, not the ceiling.
What would you make about Chelsea, though? 25
years, they've been changing coach every six
months and been one of the best clubs in the
world. How long can that continue, though? The
thing is, when Roman did it, he was going after
best -in -class talents. Liam Roseno is not a
best -in -class talent. Liam Roseno, as far as
I can tell, is just a yes -man. I mean, he comes
from Strasbourg, who they are. I'm 100 % willing
to be proven wrong. Liam Roseno, if you want
to make a big fuss at Chelsea and you don't really
put your stamp on it, you know, fair enough.
But from the outside looking in... Liam Rosenio
looks like a race man just brought in to do the
bidding of Blueco. I would agree with that, I
think. So, although on paper it looks the same
as what Roman used to do, it's very far from
what's happening, in my mind. But, I mean, do
you think it was a sustainable approach either
way to, like, at some point, elite coaches are
going to want to stop taking the job, right?
Well, it's hypothetical because they'll keep
getting sacked from other clubs. But the thing
is, elite coaches always pop up. Exactly. The
next best thing always comes around and you use
them for a couple of years, get rid. Next one
comes around. I guess every club is different.
Culturally, Arsenal have probably followed more
like the Ajax or Barcelona model where you give
coaches time to implement their own philosophy
and their own style. And you win whatever comes
in that time, you know. But, Chelsea have won
two Champions Leagues. I don't care. You don't
care. Bro, at the end of the day, football is
about winning. I know. Maybe it is, but I'm saying
if my team got relegated, I'd still have to support
them. If I was supporting Exeter, or whoever
said he played there, got popped 10 -0, I would
want them... to move up the divisions and win
the Champions League. Win the Premier League,
then win the Champions League, right? Because
that's just, I believe, yes, there's the journey,
but at the end of the journey, you need to be
progressing every year. But I wouldn't, like,
part of the reason I supported Arsenal was because,
well, stayed supporting them, like, consciously.
Because when I was a kid, my favourite players
were, like, Henry. And then Brazilian Ronaldo.
So I used to support Real Madrid and Arsenal.
And once they signed Cristiano Ronaldo... It
was over. It was over. Love affair ended. No,
I'm kidding. That wasn't the reason. But the
reason I chose Arsenal on a personal level was
because I liked the way Wenger spoke. Like, I
read a lot. When he did interviews, it seemed
like something out of literature. I liked the
way that he was very patient with players. He
would take players that didn't work out here
and there, didn't work out at other clubs, give
them a chance. He turned Dennis Bergkamp and
Henry into some of the best players in the world.
In a lot of ways, Arteta's more defensive -minded,
but he's doing the same thing. He's taking players
that need a second chance and trying to put them
in his system. I would rather win that way than
win the Chelsea way. I'm jealous of you guys,
the way you guys have won and won the Champions
League. I'm not jealous of Chelsea or Man City.
Fair enough. Do you have any other thoughts about
the managerial merry -go -round? Is there any
other managers that I perhaps forgot you want
to mention? Well, I just feel bad for Maresca,
I think. He hasn't done much wrong. You get sacked
six months after winning the first iteration
of a competition that will probably go on to
be one of the big football competitions in the
future. I do wonder why he got sacked. They cited
poor form. They had won like one in eight. But
that's not poor enough form to sack a manager,
I don't think. And I think he... By every metric
since he's been in Chelsea, he's been one of
the best coaches in the world. So it doesn't
make sense to sack him. I thought there might
be some sort of behind -the -scenes issues he
may have had with the board. And he questioned
them publicly, which maybe Todd Bowley didn't
like or Iqbali didn't like. I don't know. Yeah,
I have no idea. So those are my thoughts about
the managers at the moment. And, I mean, obviously
with Man United. We both don't like them, but
what do you think would be the way forward for
them? I did like Carrick at Middlesbrough. I
don't think he's going to get the job long term.
Again, a back three coach, but he seemed like
a decent proponent of the back three. I don't
know much about him. With regards to Emer, I
am astounded. Sad that he's left. I am astounded.
At the stupidity of United fans. They finished
15th. And people still wanted him as the manager.
15th. In our banter era. We finished 8th. And
it was like. All the Liverpool forums were like.
Oh my god. How will we ever recover from finishing
8th. It's so embarrassing. We'll never come back.
I mean we finished 5th. When I stopped watching
games. The standards at United. Are just. Below
the floor. It's like quicksand. Everything is
just going inside there. It's hilarious. But
where do you think it comes from? Because they
have a new board now, but it seems like the same
old United since Ferguson left. I don't want
to be a dick, but I will be. United fans are
glory hunters. Not everyone. Majority of them.
And I would say City fans in, say, 10 years from
now. The thing is... When you're young, you just,
well, most people just support whoever's winning,
right? So I think there's a bunch of clueless
United fans that just like United because they
were winning. And they have a very loud voice
within the... Entitlement. No, no, no, within
the fan base. They don't have entitlement. That's
my problem. They're willing to accept mediocrity
when, objectively, Man United is the second biggest
team in England. right? One of the biggest teams
in the world. They have 18 league titles, three
Champions Leagues. They are a massive club. Financially,
the biggest, I think, in the world. The minimum
should be competing for the title every year.
Minimum. They should be, you know... competing
for Champions League, competing for titles every
year. The fact that they're satisfied with keeping
a manager who finished 15th. The fact that they
were satisfied with keeping a manager who lost
7 -0. The fact that they were satisfied with
Oli Solskjaer until Ronaldo came and ruined the
project. It's bizarre to me. And where do they
go from here? I guess to some degree you could
say they were patient with Amorim if they had
a top coach and they were that patient with him.
But how much does the... You judge on fundamentals,
right? Amorim, he didn't understand why, you
know, like against Burnley, they were playing
a back three. And when you need a... a goal you
put men forward, right? Didn't he say something
like he was brought here to be the manager and
not the coach, which is ridiculous for someone
who is constantly talking about his defense.
He was sacked due to comments he made in the
media, not because of his performance. And that
tells me how stupid Inyos is as well, that they
would accept that. Because the thing is, how
bad is their squad? They have a good squad. So
then if the squad building isn't that bad...
They have a top eight squad, let's say that.
So the squad building falls off at the level
of the coach, I guess. What are they also looking
for? Yes, man. For example, Mbwemo. I think that's
a good signing, regardless of what system you're
playing, because he can fit in in many types
of systems. Right? Konya as well. Good signing.
Mbwemo's a bit like Salah, though. He is. He
is a little bit like Salah, but a lot more defensively
active. Yes, that. I'd like a Mbwemo better.
I'm not going to lie, bro. I mean, I wish we
had Salah, so it's hard for me to say. You wish
you had Salah from five years ago, not watch
Salah. No, I mean, I wish we had a player with...
That sort of career. I watched him a lot, so
I liked him. I don't know. I didn't get frustrated.
I thought the... My greatest... Okay, we can
actually... Are we done with managers? What were
we just saying? Oh, no. I mean, I think we have
to finish the... Oh, Man United. In isolation,
the signings that they've made are not bad. Cesco
is an up -and -coming good striker. He has good
positional sense. He has some pace on him. You
know... You shouldn't be buying that type of
player. You should be buying... Actually, they
should be buying that type of player, right?
And they have one of the best hands in the world.
In Bruno. Yeah. Right? But they not make... MRM's
system was not making use of Bruno. You know?
So... MRM was just a wrong foot all the way around.
And I believe it was Ineos' pride that they didn't
want to admit that they made a wrong decision.
Yeah. So... yeah united are just a mess and i
kind of love it but not kind of i do love it
the squad is good or decent like uh i guess if
they make the right managerial appointment can
it can it like paper over the cracks which would
be good for everyone else because let's just
say everyone like kind of rated Ten Hag highly
before he took that job. Not a lot of people
watched Ajax. I watched Ajax that season in the
Champions League and I saw that they were very
easy to play against. They just had... Frankie
de Jong was exceptional that season and Donny
van de Beek. So they kind of always created more
chances than their opponents and that benefited
them. You could see it was kind of a one -season
thing. If you took De Jong out of their team,
they were going to lose a lot of games. I think
if Thomas Tuchel comes and takes over United,
not a single player change, they will finish
top four. Yeah, and what do you think... So then
that's, I guess, the difference. I think they
have a top four squad. I don't think they have
a top four squad. I just think Tuchel will get
so much value out of the players that they will
end up top four. But then it's like the same
thing could be said of Chelsea if they had made
the right... There's no saying that Liam Rossignol
won't be the right choice, but... Like I said,
I have no idea about him. I don't want to speak
about him because I have no... I don't want to
talk from a place of ignorance, but let's say
if he is the right choice, if he turns out to
be an elite coach, then Chelsea could also...
They have a squad that... I'm not talking...
Whether he works out or not, I'm saying it's
a risk. Right? We have no evidence for Liam Rossignol
at the top club. Tuchel, it's less of a risk
because he's been a success at a top club. Would
you say it's a guarantee, though? It's not a
guarantee. I'm just playing the numbers. If it's
a 10 % this person's going to fail, and there's
50 % that this person's going to fail, you're
obviously going to take the 10%, because it's
a lower... If you're just playing numbers. It's
been a weird kind of banter era, I guess, for
Man United, because... They've won a lot of things
during that era. They've won a couple of FA Cups,
I think the Europa League, more than the average
club that goes through a banter era. When we
went through it, we won absolutely nothing. They're
still a huge club. Like you said, they can naturally
attract players of their name. If Jose Mourinho
went there... And the best he could do is second.
I think he got like 87 points or something. I
mean, Pep Guardiola is obviously going to finish
second. But I think it eventually got unworkable
for him. Whether that happens at every club or
not, it's another question. But I think he's
really the only elite coach they've had recently.
So I understand what you're saying about Thomas
Tuchel. But then is the job going to... like,
mess him up the same way it did Mourinho, I guess.
Is that not, like... At United? Yeah. Like, I'm
saying, like, is he not going to be, like, I
can get this team to second? What messed up Mourinho?
Like, I think whatever happened, I'm not sure.
Like, the team fell out of form, but there's...
It's very odd that, like, the team went from
finishing second to, like, being so out of form.
And... He was questioning the board and all of
that went hand in hand. I don't know what happened
behind the scenes, but I think the board can
make things unworkable for a coach to where the
squad can be divided, players can turn against
each other, turn against the coach, and then
all of a sudden you have an environment where
even an elite coach is looking beneath their
best. Well, we've got to wrap up soon, but I
just want to throw out one rogue name. into the
managerial merry -go -round, would you take them
at any club? His name is Jose Mourinho. It depends.
I read an article today that said Florentino
Perez is looking at getting Mourinho back. I
think he could do well in that. Well, it depends
what the expectation is because in that specific
instance, I don't think he would be a good replacement
because I think Barcelona are going to be...
one of the best teams in the world under Hansi
Flick and I think that that being the direct
competition just like he did with Guardiola the
last time he couldn't compete even though he
probably put together at that time the second
best team in the world and I guess the other
one we can talk about before we close is because
I don't think he's going to last very long is
Thomas Frank I'm very I completely misjudged
that one. I thought he would do well. Same, bro.
His throwing coach is currently above him in
the table. That's the crazy thing. It's not looking
good, bro. I also got it very wrong. Watching
Thomas Frank on TV where he breaks down tactics
and he seems so knowledgeable and so like with
it and then he gets to Spurs and he just seems
so out of his depth. And that's why I... Frank
at Spurs is what made me less bullish on Glasner.
So if you were Tottenham, where do you go from
here? Because he's definitely going to get sacked,
let's be honest, probably even maybe by the time
this episode comes out. What are Spurs' aims?
I think this season, last season they got lucky.
They're definitely not a Champions League level
team and there's no way they qualify for it again.
Just thinking in terms of a Spurs fan, in the
next two years, I want to get back in the Champions
League. Qualifying through finishing top five,
right? Who is going to take the squad and get
the most out of it? Conte is out of the... For
me, someone I would go for out of left field.
I know he'd re -sign for Juventus, but I would
go for Spalletti. If Tottenham could prize him
out of any club, I would want him at Arsenal.
He's probably one of my favourite coaches in
the world. Spalletti is a... Let's put up with
that. Right. Last thing I wanted to say... Oh,
Alonso. That spurs. That could work as well.
I think that would be his level. Or the stepping
stone to... where he wants to go. But I think
his reputation is higher than Spurs. Than Spurs,
yeah. I think maybe even Man City might be looking
at Alonso. What if... I mean, it could also be
that Man City try to get Kompany and he goes
to Bayern. Kompany is another fraud. I don't
like him. Constantly outlasted in big games.
I'm thinking about the inter -game last season
over two legs. Yeah, but Inter were very good
at the time. Whatever the case is, every time
I see Kofi against a big club, I just think this
guy's getting cooked. Well, I mean, he beat Chelsea
this year and they do well against the big teams.
He lost to us. Is Enzo Maresca like a super elite
manager? He's young in the game. Yeah, he's young
in the game, but I would say he's always company.
You can't judge either of them. But I understand
what Bayern are doing, if they're going to give
him time. I don't like him at Burnley. I don't
like him at Bayern. I don't like him as a man
manager. I think that seems to be a big problem
of his. But he has an idea. My thing is, I think
Man City might go for him out of loyalty. Or
affinity, I think that's the word. So we're done
here. managers speaking about managers yeah the
last maybe like two minutes I just want to chat
about Afghan Salah got knocked out I've been
told that Salah he didn't get knocked out there's
still a third and fourth place playoff okay I
don't give a fuck right fuck Salah fuck Egypt
I kept getting told that actually it's Salah
that's carrying this whole Liverpool team. If
Salah falls apart, Salah cannot be benched. Because
if Salah is benched, that means we're benching
our best player. And how is the season going
compared to last season? Let me tell you this.
We had an unbeaten run since he left to AFCON.
Take that into consideration. You won't mention
that, will you? I'm just saying I like him. And
if we win the Champions League, let's say...
I knew this was going to become a debate about
Salah, but who is the best Premier League winger
of all time? At the moment. Of all time. Maybe
Henry? No. Why no? He doesn't... He didn't do
much as a winger. Didn't he join as a winger?
Yeah, but he didn't do much as a winger. His
first season was quiet. I mean, if you're going
to take two seasons, yeah. As a peak, yeah. As
a peak Ronaldo. He's won more at United than
Salah won at Liverpool. Yeah, he wasn't the key
player though. Wayne Rooney was arguably the
key player. Doesn't matter. Yeah, no, I'm saying
Salah was the fundamental player. It devalues
Milner's titles because he wasn't the main player.
It doesn't devalue it, but I think it's like
Ronaldo wasn't playing with the same level of
expectation as Salah. In my opinion. At Man United.
I just think you make all these excuses for Salah.
He's just, he's a good player. Legend is a strong
word. They're telling me he's better than Gerrard.
These people who've never supported this club,
that are here just because Salah is at the club.
are telling me he's better than Gerrard. I cannot
abide that. That's a biased personal debate.
That's not biased. Gerrard's a better player
than Salah. It doesn't matter position. Overall
player. And the same way you were saying it's
unfair to compare this and that player. No, fuck
the comparison. Gerrard's better than Salah.
And Salah is much better than Shurkey as of right
now. As a footballer, Shurkey has a lot to do
to prove himself to be anything close to Salah.
Whatever. I really didn't give a fuck about AFCON
since Bafana were knocked out. The one thing
I can say is that the standard of football has
come on a long way. In AFCON? In AFCON. Yeah,
in AFCON. It's the best AFCON I've watched so
far. I haven't watched all the games, but...
The games I've watched, the Morocco -Nigeria
game was really good, I think. Morocco look like
a competent team with an idea, like a philosophy
and an idea. I think they can be a team that
pushes the envelope a bit for Africa in the World
Cup, like they did at the last World Cup. Things
are looking good on that end, I would say. Okay,
just to wrap everything up that we are talking
about. The name I was going to mention with Doku
is Spalletti. Because it was Spalletti who was
the one who turned Salah into an elite winger
at Roma. Spalletti is the one who turned Ferret
Scalia into an elite winger at Napoli. Spalletti
with wingers is cash money, right? And I was
thinking, Doku with Spalletti, if he went on
loan to Juventus, maybe that would straighten
him out. I don't know. Spalletti is probably
my favorite coach in the world, outside of Pep
Guardiola. I love him as a person, and that affects
my idea of his football. In a way, it's weird
because I'm probably one of Arteta's biggest
defenders, but he's the anti -Arteta in a lot
of ways. He's not practical. He's not practical.
You play 10 -1 formation. 10 -1. Oh, 10 -0, sorry.
Everything is chaotic. The players are bunched
up close together half the time and relies a
lot on individual brilliance. But I think the
thing I liked about Arteta... I have an affinity
for revolutionary thinking. When Arteta came
into Arsenal, to come in and play defensive football
is revolutionary, given Arsenal's history of
attacking football. People can say that, OK,
you don't go back, you don't play defensive football.
But I think Simeone, for example, let's take
Simeone. Atletico Madrid were probably about
to get relegated when they employed him. I disagree
with that. When Simeone came in? I'm pretty sure
they won the Europa League before they signed
him. No, they won the Europa League after they
signed him. Okay, Karen speaking. I'm going to
Google that. Yeah, you were saying? Yeah, I mean,
I think in terms of the... Yeah, when did they
win it? In 06, right? What? The Europa League,
the UEFA Cup. No, no, 2011. Oh yeah, he was there
in 2011, right? Definitely. Wow, I'm fact -checking
you now. We'll see. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
In terms of... What's up? Just loading. Was I
wrong? It's loading! I might have been wrong,
but in terms of... I think they had to change
their brand of football to... I think even before
he came in, maybe they were defensive, but Chelsea,
for example, I think they had played expensive
football under Ranieri, from what I understand,
and it wasn't working out. Mourinho came in.
Porto. Mourinho's work at Porto can be considered
revolutionary. So, Capello. Going back to those
days, I didn't watch much, but Capello was the...
Probably one of the biggest proponents of catenatrial
football. Yeah. So... Yeah. So they won the Europa
League in 2010. And Simeone joined in 2011. Oh,
okay. Who was the coach in 2010? Kike Sanchez
Flores. Former Watford. Yeah, I remember him.
But either way, I think... that it's the first
time that they've been consistently, I would
say, like a club that's performed, been amongst
Europe's elite, as long as I can remember. I
don't remember Atletico Madrid being there. I
remember Valencia being there, and Rafa Benitez,
who was also a defensive coach, and that was
revolutionary. I mean, Rafa Benitez won the Champions
League with you guys playing. defensiveness is
not revolutionary i'm sick of what this what
you're saying right defensiveness is a coward's
tactic i disagree but i think there's different
traits it's like you can't make everything technical
some players are defensive i just think attack
attack attack and that's uh that doesn't make
sense to think that and then say that guardiola
is better than clock Correale has been a good
club. The trophy is tell the story, bro. Because
he cared about defending. Oh, whatever. I'm done
here. Do you want to end the episode? I'm good.
Alright, thank you for listening. Please remember
to like, subscribe, share, all the things. what
else repost thank you for listening yes we so
this is obviously our first episode we may not
have all the socials up at the moment but the
moment they are please do go ahead give us a
follow share maybe tell your friends about it
yeah and thank you for listening thank you for
listening cheers bye bye