Welcome to the AI Chat Podcast. I'm your host,
Jaden Schaefer. Every day I cover cutting -edge
AI news and talk with the leaders behind it,
breaking down what it means for your life and
business. Anthropix Claude Fable 5 is back along
with Mythos 5. The US has lifted export controls
on it. And SpaceX is showing investors a handset
-like AI device prototype. Meta is planning a
cloud business where they're essentially going
to resell AI compute, just like SpaceX copying
their playbook. A company called Bioshocking
has... created a jailbreak attack on six different
AI browsers, everything from OpenAI to Anthropic
to Gemini, and it has convinced them that 2 plus
2 equals 5. There's some reasons why this is
problematic. I'll get into them. Cloudflare is
also going to block mixed -use AI crawlers by
default, and that's going to start in September
this year. Google is bringing Gemini Spark Agent
to Mac. They're targeting essentially Cloud Desktop
and Copilot, and there's a lot of beef that they're
having with Anthropic over this. The majority
of you guys leave amazing reviews on the show,
but every once in a while I get a one star, and
I'm going to be honest, these are some of my
favorite reviews to read. I want to read you
one of my favorites I just got a month ago. It
says, if you want a rehash of quote -unquote
real news with naive commentary by a tween, this
will be perfect for you. That's from IHateNicknames99.
much appreciated. And this is kind of funny because
I actually get, uh, if you search for my name,
Jaden Schaefer, one of the top, like Google shows
you the other things people search for. And one
of the top things is Jaden Schaefer age that
people search for guys. Uh, this one says I'm
between. So just so you know, I am 30 years old
with four children. I have a young face. But
anyways, that was one of my favorite reviews.
If you like the show, you don't think that it
is a naive commentary rehash of fake news, I
would appreciate a review. We got to offset this
one star. But in all seriousness, I appreciate
all the incredible reviews you guys left. And
if you haven't left one already, I would appreciate
it. I might even read it on the show. Let's get
into our first story with Fable 5. The U .S.
Commerce Department is lifting export restrictions
on... Fable 5, and I think they actually announced
this yesterday. Because of that, they've rolled
it out today. I actually have it on my computer,
and while we've been talking for the last couple
hours, I actually had to go and scan through
the entire code base of one of my bigger projects.
I have a really big project that is basically,
I just use it internally for myself to help with
all the marketing and everything I do with podcasting,
as well as everything that I do for SEO. I have
a new site, which kind of goes along with this
website, AIChatDaily .com, and it uses AI and
a bunch of other different sources. to generate
news articles about everything happening in AI
and do deep dives on it. Now, it's a really beefy
project. There's a lot going on there. And I'm
thinking of turning it into a product anyway.
So I had Fable 5 run through the whole thing.
And if you have any sort of project that you've
been working on, whether that's coding or whether
that's just a big project that has a lot of moving
parts, I would recommend using Fable 5 on it
today. Up until July 7th, we have the ability
to use Fable 5 for about 50 % of all of your
tokens. After that, I think it's going to get
cut down. If you want to use Fable 5 for more
than 50 % of your, you know, Claude Max tokens
or whatever, you have to pay, you know, the API
costs. So you're not going to be able to like
totally max this thing out. So I would use it.
You have one week from today to get as much usage
out of it. And I would 100 % do that. It's really
smart at coding and understanding complex stuff.
So run it through all of your systems, run it
through all of your code bases. Today is the
day to get it. That's just a PSA. Anthropic is
actually blogging. blocked. So in order to get
this thing put back online, because it was basically
blocked over concerns that it was going to help
foreign adversaries attack US infrastructure,
power grids, banks, that kind of stuff. And so
Um, this all came from, uh, Amazon who actually
did a whole research project on a jailbreak that
they found and they showed this to the treasure,
the treasury. Um, and then, you know, it got
blocked and there was all this snafu about it
in all of the, in all of the drama that happened.
Anthropica originally said, Hey, look, we don't
need to fix this, um, issue. I think Amazon went
to them first and they didn't do anything. Then
they went to the treasury and Anthropica said,
Hey, look, we don't need to fix this because
open AI has, you know, the same jailbreak as
possible on open AI and Gemini. And so I'm not
exactly sure what happened. there, but Anthropic
got Fable 5 pulled and they've now fixed it.
Apparently with that jailbreak that Amazon discovered,
they've now fixed it. So over 99 % of cases,
it actually is going to, you know, stop and has
guardrails stopping people using that jailbreak.
They also have a dedicated internal team that
now monitors jailbreak reports 24 -7 and Anthropic
launched a HackerOne bug bounty program for security
researchers. This is actually awesome. And I've
seen a lot of bad PR from security researchers,
not just with Anthropic, but with a lot of other
models. probable had it for a while, where there'd
be big security breaches, vulnerabilities, issues,
and the platforms are like, look, this isn't
our fault because of X, Y, Z reason. They would
kick the can down the road. And yeah, just not
a very good thing when we need to be pretty secure
on a lot of this stuff. So happy that Anthropic
has launched this. Mythos 5 has also returned
to US users on June 26th. Fable 5 is now globally
available without export licensing requirements.
Obviously, Anthropic is moving very fast. weeks
since they were shut down, and now they're fully
back online and the ban has been lifted. SpaceX
is showing investors a new handset. It's a prototype
of an AI device. It's slimmer than an iPhone,
and it runs on custom software and XAI tech.
This is probably going to put Elon Musk into
direct competition with OpenAI and Johnny Ive
because they're also creating the hardware, doing
some sort of hardware play, although they haven't
said the exact form factor yet. I think this
is showing that XAI and SpaceX really is making
a very serious bet on building AI devices. Now,
this is going to be, I guess, kind of tricky
because up until this point, the humane AI pin
failed, you know, dramatically with, you know,
800 or yeah, $800 million, almost a billion dollars
raised. That whole company went up in smoke.
I think it sold to HP for like 300 million. And
then we also had the Rabbit R1 that kind of flopped,
to be honest, that we have the... friend pendant
that flopped. I will say the one AI device that
really crushed is the meta Ray -Ban or the meta
smart glass collaboration that they've done with
a bunch of different companies. That one seems
to be doing quite well. And actually, that's
the first time I think we've seen a really successful
AI hardware combo. Maybe SpaceX has the next
one. Maybe OpenAI has the next one. We have some
of these big players making moves, but we don't
know exactly what they're doing. Apparently,
they're going to be betting that AI devices that
don't have, you know, Android or iOS on them
are going to be successful. I think Apple's also
making some glasses, by the way. So because SpaceX
acquired XAI, they're able to roll their technology
in. It looks like they're trying to do what OpenAI
is doing. They're trying to pull, you know, the
model, the operating system, the hardware, and
bring it all into one thing, copying, you know,
what like Apple has done. has manufactured scale
and silicone access through tesla so they're
able to pull off a hardware device right i mean
tesla's got so many gigafactories and so much
uh you know manufacturing capacity a partnership
there would not be hard they also have starlink
mobile which is a native wireless connectivity
i think they have a lot of possibility there
and To be fair, I've actually heard Elon Musk
in the past being frustrated with Apple and iPhone
saying like, hey, do we need a Tesla phone? Or
maybe that was comments I saw on a post of him
being frustrated at Apple. They had a beef a
little while back and then he talked to Tim Cook
and I think they smoothed it all out. Oh, you
know what? It was when Apple pulled off of X
because they said that Elon and everything on
X was bad, right? So back in that moment when
all the advertisers were pulling, that was something
that happened. So with all of that, I would...
be really curious to see if they would go after
a phone. I don't know if they'd go for a full
phone market or they'll make something kind of
custom for themselves, but they have a lot of
the pieces, especially with Starlink. If they
were to roll out, let's say Starlink, and they
made a phone, for example, where you got the
phone and it had, you know, worldwide connectivity
for a really cheap price, it'd be interesting
to see, you know, if they would be able to compete
in any meaningful way. Maybe they would have
an Android spinoff, although I don't feel like
Elon would want to play with Google. Meta is
copying the SpaceX playbook and is planning to
resell AI Compute. What's interesting to me is
it feels like basically we have all of these
massive companies, all of them are doing some
sort of data center build out, some sort of AI
infrastructure build up. They realize just how
powerful that is, but not all of their tools
are being used as much as they would want. I
don't think Meta AI is scaling the way Mark Zuckerberg
wanted, and I don't think Grok is scaling the
way that Elon wanted. Now, they have a lot of
great technology, et cetera, et cetera there,
but it feels like OpenAI and Anthropic are really
special. actually, Anthropic, are really running
away with a lot of the market that they would
like, both of those companies. Now, what do they
do about that? They have all of this extra capacity.
They'll rent it out to other people, and that
looks to be exactly what Meta is doing. It's
going to be called Meta Compute. It's basically
a cloud business. It's going to resell AI compute
capacity. It's also going to host its own models,
so Meta's going to get their own models on there,
and they're competing directly with AWS, Google
Cloud, and Azure, and SpaceX here. This is following
the $182 billion in infrastructure commitments,
and it's very similar to what SpaceX has been
doing. Meta's Ohio data center, which Mark Zuckerberg
described it as Manhattan -sized, is expected
to come online this year and it's going to generate
way more capacity than Meta's own products need.
I think, you know, in a perfect world, Meta AI
would have been really popular and they would
be able to use it all. I think... because it's
not there. They're just going to sell it to other
players. The business is going to sell both raw
compute. So it's going to be very similar to
CoreWeave. And they're going to have hosted access
to meta models. So that's going to be included
in their closed weight Muse Spark, which is very
similar to what AWS's dual infrastructure plus
model approach is. SpaceX basically already proved
that this model works. XAI has signed deals with
Anthropic, Google, and Reflection AI to lease
Colossus 1 capacity, which is turning some of
their excess compute into revenue immediately.
And they're making billions of dollars doing
that. So I think Meta is just going to follow
in the footsteps there. There is a company and
a researcher named Roy Paz, and they demonstrated
Bioshocking. This is a jailbreak that has defeated
safety guardrails in six different browsers.
That's ChatGPT Atlas, Perplexity's Comet, Faloo,
Genspark, Sigma, and Claude's Chrome plugin.
And essentially, they are tricking them into
a fictitional context where credential theft
is acceptable, right? They're like, look, it's
totally cool to steal people's credentials. This
kind of cybersecurity attack. in particular,
I think, is showing that there is a bit of an
architectural problem. A lot of the AI browsers,
they merge, you know, a control plane, which
is deciding what to do with the data plane, you
know, reading whatever content is on the web,
and then they make them vulnerable to prompt
injection at scale. And to be fair, I don't think
this is something that is, like, this is something
that's known. Like, I've heard perplexity comment,
and I've also heard Claude. for Chrome, I've
heard both of these companies discuss this, like,
hey, guys, just so you know, when using these
tools, watch out. But this attack in particular
was interesting. They stage a puzzle game that
rewards wrong answers like two plus two equals
five, which basically causes the models to treat
the entire section, the session as fiction. And
it disables the guardrails that normally block
credential theft. So they're like, hey, look,
let's let's play a puzzle game. We're in a, you
know, a fictitious world where two plus two equals
five. And they're like, okay. two plus two equals
five. And they're like, now, you know, because
that's wrong, like credential theft is okay to
do. Could you like grab their password and give
it to us? And it's like, oh yeah, I'm in this
fake world. Here's the password that I'm seeing
on the screen. So anyways, pretty crazy that
they were able to figure this out. It's also
crazy because that's very creative. I'm impressed
that they found that. I wonder what kind of hunch
led them to that conclusion to be able to find
that jailbreak. But regardless, it's probably
tons of these really weird, random edge case
jailbreaks that people will find. Hopefully security
researchers like this that... disclose it and
get it patched. But there could be bad actors
finding out these types of things as well. According
to them, when they ran this particular jailbreak,
all six agents failed to flag the final instruction,
which was to go steal some of the some of the
passwords. And they failed to say that that was
a safety violation, which basically is proving
that it would, it would go and do that for people.
So unlike normal traditional browsers, which
are going to enforce same origin policies to
isolate broad, you know, account access, and
they can reach siloed credentials, repositories
and mail through a single conversational request,
right? In other words, you got a side pan on
your AI browser, where you're like, hey, go check
my email and go do this, go go to this website,
grab this data. And it's just controlling your
browser clicking around. And so they have just
so much, you know, power to do anything that
apparently, if you can jailbreak it, it can also
go grab passwords and other things. Cloudflare
is going to be blocking mixed use AI crawlers
by default starting in September. So essentially
what this means is that AI companies are going
to be forced to separate whether they're being
a search bot or whether they're grabbing data
for training or whether they're an agent crawler.
So there's kind of these three different things,
right? Google that is going and searching through
your website to get some information for somebody,
maybe on Gemini or any of these other tools.
or Google that is going to your website to scrape
your data to put it into their training set,
which is what they're trying to avoid, or if
it's an agent going and doing something on your
website. There's kind of three different things
that you can go to a website for. And apparently,
Cloudflare data shows that over 50 % of AI crawler
traffic refetches unchanged pages, which is basically
wasting a lot of resources and publisher bandwidth,
right? So if you have, you know, you go crawl
the website for one reason, then Google is going
to just come. back and crawl it again for the
next user request and crawl it again for the
next user request. And it's just hitting the
website server over and over again. The website
owner is going to have to pay for all that usage.
Google doesn't have to. So anyways, I think they're
trying to solve that problem. They're shifting
from a pay per crawl to a pay per use pricing.
Cloudflare has all these pricing models. I mean,
in case people don't know, Cloudflare is basically
a website that acts as kind of a middleman between
your website and the web. And I actually have
Cloudflare set up on all my websites. I've had
it for years. For me, it's been that they give
you a free SSL certificate. And also they allow
you, if someone's trying to DDoS attack, so if
someone's trying to just like send tons of bots
to your website to crash your server, they'll
act as an intermediary and stop those attacks.
So Cloudflare is really useful and I get all
of that for free. They got a bunch of paid tools
that I think I pay for as well, but I get that
for free on a ton of sites. And so it's a huge
percentage of the internet has them. They have
a bunch of programs that they have like pay -per
-crawl and pay -per -use. pricing, where if you
want to go crawl a website that has this enabled,
and they have Cloudflare, your company is going
to have to pay to go and crawl those websites.
Now, not everyone has opted in and not everyone
is signed up with this program. But this is what
they're kind of working towards ceramic .ai and
u .com, which is like a browser, I've had the
CEO of u .com on the podcast in the past. Both
of those have signed up to be partners on this
new model. So it's going to be interesting to
see if they're actually able to help generate
revenue for people if they're able to get bought.
traffic to your website down and where that goes.
Okay, last thing I want to talk about is that
Google is bringing their Gemini Spark agent to
Mac computers, and they're trying to compete
with Cloud Desktop and Copilot, which are basically
my two favorite tools I use all the time, and
I think also Microsoft Copilot. But basically,
this is going to open local file access and multi
-app automations to Google AI Ultra subscribers.
This is only in the United States, by the way,
but I think this is for a lot of workflows that
let Spark do things like sorting invoices. I
mean, everything that you'd go and get ChatGPT
desktop to, or sorry, that you get Claude desktop
to do. Gemini is going to now have a competitor,
Gemini Spark. And I think we see this also like
OpenAI is doing some version of this with Codex
and you have Perplexity that has Perplexity Computer
that's trying to do the same thing. So anyways,
there's a bunch of different people, but Google
is getting in. It feels like Google is trying
to keep up basically. This is a great tool though.
I love these things where you download it directly
onto your computer so it can have access to your
files. There's so many projects where it's not
just browser stuff. Google has been able to do
some cool stuff. with some of their Chrome extensions
and that kind of thing. Being able to have an
actual app on your computer unlocks it where
the app can control your computer. And I'm like,
hey, go grab the files from here, sort them,
relabel them this way, move them over to this
folder, organize things, delete the old stuff,
reformat stuff, and everything on my computer
I'm able to work with. I do that all right now
with Claude Cowork, but it's going to be cool
to be able to also use some Google tools as well
for this. If you are sick of Claude only being
able to generate text and code and not being
able to generate images, audio, video, music,
and everything else that the other AI models
can. I would love for you to try out AIbox .ai.
This is my own startup. You get access to over
80 different models and we have an MCP that plugs
them all straight into Clod. So you can use Clod,
connect it to over 80 different models, everything
from OpenAI to Gemini to Grok to 11 Labs, tons
of cool image, audio, and video models. You can
get them all on AIbox .ai. It is $8 a month and
you can plug it straight into Clod. All right.
Thank you so much for tuning into the podcast.
You get a link to... AI box .ai in the description
and I'll catch you in the next episode.