Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine. I'm Diana.
And I'm Anusha. We're the Girls in the Crease.
And Diana, this is episode 19. 19. 19. I can't
believe we've been doing this for, well, 19 weeks.
I know we're a day late, but it is Memorial Day
weekend here in the United States. And so we
figured. we'll push a day so this is our second
to last episode which means we're about to go
on a very long summer break together i do want
to tell our listeners that if you have ideas
for our episodes please send them our way if
you perhaps want to appear on our podcast and
you have something interesting to contribute
please reach out to us because we would love
to have you as a guest on our show. Yeah, sometimes
we get tired of listening to ourselves. It doesn't
happen often. No, yeah, I love listening to us,
but you know. But on occasion. I think other
people want to hear more voices. Perspectives.
Different perspectives. So yeah, reach out to
us. We are available and open and excited to
hear from you. Yeah, open to DMs. Speaking of
sliding into your DMs and being open. Should
we talk about intimacy? and narrative and how
the sex scenes drive the narrative forward. We
should talk about exactly that. Let's do it.
OK, let's do it. Can you level set for me? We're
talking about sex. Let's talk about sex, baby.
But it's very intellectual discussion. Is that
what I'm hearing? Oh, we're supposed to be doing
the sex scenes and the intimacy scenes, right?
They're structured like an emotional plot beat.
Every major scene changes something in Ilya's
and Shane's relationship dynamic. It either reveals
information that the characters cannot say out
loud because they are, as we have said many times,
poor communicators. It raises the stakes sometimes,
especially if you're reading the book. It will
say something like, he knew there was no going
back from this moment. So it really does work
as narrative structure throughout the... show
and the book. I often heard the criticism is
that they always have sex. Why is it that every
time they get together, they're just having sex?
A, they only see each other once every either
six months or a couple years. And also, if you're
in the beginning of an intimate relationship
of some sort, you kind of are doing just that
in the beginning. You're just like, I want you.
in my pants. So I think that in itself is very
realistic. They're craving something that no
one else seems to be able to give them. So yes,
I thought that's interesting. To be fair, I have
never. complained of the sex scenes? No, neither
have I. As you know, I was on board for minute
one. Yes, you were very much. I didn't need any
sort of lead time. You also have to remember
that they're so young, right? They're these young
athletes at their prime of their physical performance
and always. How could they not be? constantly
horny so I mean literally all of this is very
realistic I agree absolutely the horniness is
like palpable through the through the book and
the television palpable horniness palpable horniness
exactly okay so I'm gonna take us all back to
room 1410 where it all began I think one of the
first things that is really cute and sweet is
the fact that Shane starts by putting on an sort
of ill -fitting suit. And we were all like, dude,
what are you doing? You could see the utter nervousness.
Is this a business interview? Is this prom? What
is this encounter? And of course, Ilya's wearing
his usual outfit of tight sports spandex stuff,
right? Like his little tank. His little black
tank. Yeah. It shows, I think, how casual it
is for Ilya. in the beginning and how significant
it is for shane i think and maybe maybe you know
maybe your analysis will be a little different
i think this moment serves as a little bit of
the narrative exposition like where they're coming
from in their life because shane's saying this
is my first time with a man and ilia's like not
me um he Seems to imply he's only had one other
male partner, but he's definitely had more experience.
He's approaching in this like super casual way.
I think Ilya's nerves come in later, but it's
very clear sort of the initial way this is starting
is a casual hookup where Ilya surely has the
upper hand. There is a subtle take that heated
rivalry is from... Shane's point of view. I think
you just see a lot more of his internal work
made explicit for the audience than Ilya's. And
that's the style that the book is written in.
So this is like not surprising at all. And Rachel
Reed has said that Heated Rivalry is Shane's
book. Yeah. And the other thing that I get from
Room 1410 is how mutual it is. First of all,
they start all encounters except for one with
kissing. right away right it's like a soft start
you know they don't have to kiss they don't have
to have this like sweetness to it they don't
have to have this humor to it but they do they
start that's their relationship underlying all
of this whatever it's just casual is sweetness
and I don't think being casual means you can't
have a sweet funny relationship that's not what
I'm saying at all but that's where they start
always I think so and then After that sweetness
is always this mutualness. Shane goes down on
Ilya and Ilya is clearly enjoying it. And then
he kind of goes like, let me show you how it's
done. And that sense of competition inherent
to their relationship because they're, you know,
rivals. It's even following them into the bedroom.
This sets up a lot of the dynamic where they're
discovering each other and there's a underlying
compatibility to them, even though this is Shane's
first time with a man, even though they're in
completely different cultural milieus, even though
they're approaching this maybe... There's that
word. You know, this idea of shared values. I
think they do have... a lot of shared values.
The problem is they don't talk about them until
like the end. If they had, they probably would
have understood each other way faster and quicker.
You guys are very compatible in all ways. But,
you know, the fact that they want the tenderness
and the humor and the sweetness, the fact that
they want it to be a mutual thing, the fact that
they're really... competitive, even in the bedroom,
is just so inherent to their relationship. The
other thing, though, is at the end of that scene,
it sort of sets the trap of the secrecy, right?
It's hidden in the hotel room and then it sets
up the stage for years of that same behavior
happening. over and over. Clandestine hotel room
hookups, text messages, and this compartmentalization
of emotion. So it's a very double edged sword,
which most of this book is, you know, because
right away you sense that more than just physical
compatibility, they have emotional compatibility
for all the reasons I've listed. But here they're
unconscious of it. And then. Later on, they're
completely like intentionally obtuse about it,
you know, and I think that's what Room 1410 is.
Intentionally obtuse. I really like that. Intentionally
obtuse. You like that? Yeah. I think that's just
men. Yeah. I know. Actually, this might be the
problem. This might be the problem. They need
an interpreter. They need like an emotional interpreter.
That's what they need. They need one of us in
there. Oh, my God. So they need a woman, as we
know. They need a woman to help them process
their emotions. They do. And they get the women.
They do. Eventually. Yeah. Eventually. Once they
tell them what's going on. Seriously, which takes
forever. You know what? I have to disagree with
you. Oh, OK. Tell me. I know. OK. So you said
that in the beginning, like it sets up this.
thing that like it's casual for Ilya and might
not be as casual for Shane because Shane like
puts on a suit and he's like this is my first
date that's what that's how people dress on first
dates you know but I don't think that's true
and mostly I'm saying that because of the book
right in the book Shane notices that Ilya had
also done his hair and gotten a little dressed
up and Ilya has his denim jacket in the show
right like he's he's he's made some effort so
it's not So I wouldn't say it's not. It's definitely
casual. Like that's they want it to be casual
because, you know, they're afraid of themselves
and everything they feel. But I think it's the
same for both of them. I think they're both kind
of performing for the other person in the very
beginning. So that's my only disagreement that
I do think that Ilya did put some effort into
it as well. And I bet they were both very nervous,
you know, for that, even though Ilya does have
more experience, obviously. But like your experience
with. your coach's son who's just you know kind
of like on the outskirts of this hockey culture
is definitely going to be different than your
experience with your rival who is set to become
the top of his game, just like you. So that's
that's my thing. That's what I have to say. I
think I'm going to digest this for a second because
you're right. Ilya's effortfully trying to be
effortlessly perilous. Yes. None of them are
emotionally prepared for what's about to happen,
especially not Shane, because you could see in
that scene, like right after they first of all,
he was so excited when Ilya took his jacket off.
He's like, holy shit, I'm going to go down on
this man. I don't think he like realized how
much. he needed this, right? Like he didn't realize
how much he yearned this male love because he
was in denial, especially in the beginning. And
then you could see how like after he gets what
he has needed that he didn't know that he needed,
the shame immediately like takes over his entire
body and soul because like you could see him
sitting up on the bed and immediately he's like,
fuck, you're not going to tell anyone. Nobody
can know. And that also sets up the narrative
that this is how Shane is going to behave. After
every encounter, even though he knows he wants
it, he needs it, he desires it, the shame always
plays that like secondary character in Shane's
identity. Have you ever watched the show Big
Mouth, the animated show? I've heard it, not
watched it. So it's really awesome. I mean, it's
raunchy and definitely for adults, even though
it's animated. But... In this show, emotions
are characters. Anytime a character is feeling
something, the emotion is literally in a physical
form next to them, telling them things, making
them behave a certain way. And there is shame
as an emotion. And certain characters carry that
shame visibly with them. And when I watch Heated
Rivalry, I'm reminded of this physical embodiment
of shame. Walking behind Shane. Shane, Shane.
Interesting. Walking behind Shane the whole time
because like it embodies him, like envelops him
into this like cocoon of shame. And he's able
to like get out for like a millisecond and then
he's right back. You know, it's really amazing
and he's euphoric. But you're right. There's
a kernel of shame that starts. starts there almost
immediately after they're done like almost immediately
and do you get the sense that it's like that
for ilia like i don't know no not at all is the
thing i think ilia's emotion is more complicated
i think for him part of that extra character
of emotion probably has to be just deep sadness
and like the knowledge that this can't be anything
outside of the hidden dark hotel room encounters.
I don't think Ilya feels shame at all. He's very
confident in who he is. Yeah, I agree. It's almost
resignation. Yes. He's just resigned to this
is how it is. But it's not because he's denying
himself. Whereas I think for Shane. This encounter
starts, like, the whole denial process. Yeah,
absolutely. You're totally right. That's a good
question. Speaking of, let's move to 1221, right?
1221. Shane runs into the room. Ilya's like,
is someone chasing you? Shane is like, dude,
like, I'm standing out here like an idiot. Scott
Hunter is right next door. I just love how much
Shane just cannot. handle himself around ilia
right runs across that fucking living room or
hallway or whatever to just like put his hands
on ilia he needed it he's like fuck it fuck it
i need you in my mouth right now you mean shane
doesn't do suave what yeah he's not sitting there
i'd be like so what do you want to do now yeah
he's like no casually knocking that's such a
interesting juxtaposition right because ilia
in in the last encounter in 1410 is so calm at
the door and she's breathing like he played another
game he's not at all hiding it at that moment
he's like i need it i want it i'm getting it
No show whatsoever. They're making out. Ilya,
for the first time, tests this dom -sub relationship
and says, get on your knees. And Shane does not
even have to be told, but he just drops immediately.
And you could see Ilya go, oh, my God, like that
fucking worked. Right. Like, which that is the
first narrative establishment of the soft dom
happening there. Right. And and then he lifts
him up. and carries him to the bed in the book.
Shane was so mad about that. He was like, how
dare you put me down? Right. That's like competition
again. Right. I'm really strong. I'm an amazing
hockey player. He lifts him up. He carries him
to the bed. They like literally rip each other's
clothes off, you know, like they just want to
get to it. And this is the moment that narratively
they're actively choosing each other at this
point. Right. Shane didn't have to show up. in
that room after he was given the number, right?
The connection at this point, they realize like
this is not a one -time thing. We're going to
potentially keep doing this. And so in this moment,
Ilya is ready to have intercourse with Shane.
And Shane is definitely not. The consent here
is amazing. And the respecting of the boundaries
that Ilya shows Shane is also out of this world,
right? Immediately clocks that Shane is not ready.
He immediately says, no, it's OK. Like like he
makes a little joke here and there because he
likes to lighten the mood, you know, when it's
uncomfortable. And they talk about Shane's dildo.
And by the way, I know the color has never been
mentioned, but the fandom has decided it's purple.
I'm just I'm just going to. Yeah. Like we all
kind of knew in my head. I don't. When did I
know it was purple? But nobody knows for sure.
But we know like it's purple. A hundred percent.
There's no other way to describe it. Right. So
it's purple. We have all decided. Rachel Reed,
please confirm. But it is purple. And so they
have this little banter and Ilya immediately
like respects the boundary and says, OK, next
time. So already this is not going to end. You
know, like this is not going to end. This scene
is driving the narrative forward because we now
know there will be a next time. Ilya explicitly
says that. And of course, Shane has his little
panic attack and Ilya, you know, regulates him.
And then another very important part of the scene
is the setup of the future. of texting. This
is when Lily and Jane are born. And that sets
up the entire cycle of secrecy. It becomes embedded
into this relationship structure itself, right?
And I think that is especially important in the
narrative structure that we follow through with
them. Each moment of intimacy is building on
the previous one in good and bad ways. They are
developing so many of these really really lovely
compatible patterns with each other and then
they're developing on the flip all the like toxicity
that comes with a deeply closeted relationship
now They're making plans, but they only make
plans one step ahead. Right? That's the problem.
Because there's no long term because they know
they can't have long term. So it's always these
encounters. But they do plan on them. They do.
Yeah, that's really funny. Yeah. Now we're going
into their first time. Oh, God, I love that.
So their first time, a .k .a. Shane, is topped
by Ilya. I can't believe I have to start because
usually when we do these scene analysis, it's
because we all we have favorites. You do this
one. Usually you start here and then I I do Vegas
because that's my favorite. And now we're flipping
it, though. We're flipping the script. So I feel
a little vulnerable in this moment. Just like
Shane in this moment. Exactly. Exactly. But you
know what? We did. analyze this part a little
bit. Because once again, the encounter starts
with this humorous beginning. The fact that they
were sexting and Shane was, as we called it in
another episode, an angry kitten, like bristling
at this like inappropriate sext that is occurring
in the locker room. And in the books, I think
my... One of my favorite things that Ilya says
to Shane, thinks, he doesn't say it to Shane,
is that he knows that it's like, it'll be a good
thing with Shane if they like. lose to each other
by ish like a little volume you know like not
like a full -on angry long enough to bring it
into the bedroom right right he's just like a
respectable win he doesn't want to trounce Shane
you know he doesn't want that but he wants to
win but he wants it to be like by a point you
know just enough to like keep the edge going
but not enough for you know Shane to feel like
deeply ashamed and upset and embarrassed which
actually is not where the book started right
but but this time Montreal wins they're racing
up the stairs again the competition part scene
my favorite one of my favorite scenes but all
of this to say that humor and and and feeling
comfortable is part of their foreplay they have
to have it for the like the intimacy to be, to
feel authentic and comfortable. Then, of course,
you start hearing It's You by Peter Peter playing
in the background, which I think is a really
smart choice to have it start playing like before
the encounter fully starts because it's such
a dreamy song and it's very immersive in that
you don't even notice that it's on. And then
it's like you notice that it's on. The soundtrack
starts when the... dialogue is still going yeah
and then the dialogue stops and then the soundtracks
just like blooms right like but it's been there
the whole time so I thought that was a really
beautiful way that soundtrack was incorporated
because during the scene I mean it just it swells
like the it's you swells despite the joke about
the million condoms that he has and you know
despite you know where do you want me oh you
know on the floor and the table despite the like
little dig about who did decorated your bedroom
it is such a deeply authentic connection between
the two of them. They're having sex with strings.
That's what I think this moment is. Wait, did
you just say strings? I've never heard you mention
strings before. Never. Sex with strings. And
you could tell that we talk about the consent
aspect, but here. The multiple times that he
checks in is so key because it's just such a
positive example of how consent's an ongoing
thing. That just because you consent to having,
you know, you still want, yes. Okay, but like,
how about now? Do you still want? You know, it's
really important. And do you like it this way
and that way? Yes, that way. And there's a lot
of movement happening in that scene. What is
making Shane comfortable since this is his first
time? you know, bottoming. And Illya is constantly
checking in. Consent doesn't just disappear after
the first yes. And I think that's so key. By
the way, the acting was stunning. I don't really
know how you can turn red and sweat on cue or
have like a bulging vein. I'm like, how does
one do this? I don't know how they do it. I really
don't know how they do it. Like, I understand
like the intimacy coordinator, like helping them
with the movement and then this and then that.
Like, and I remember reading somewhere that like,
Like Connor's story was like, when I squeeze
your thigh, that's when I'm a .k .a. like entering.
So like, you know, that's your cue to like, you
know, behave whichever way you would. Right.
But like to to look like you're bulging everywhere.
Like, yeah, I know the physical acting is pretty
amazing. You know, I really feel like they are
selling this sex scene. Yeah. And then it just
ends. Right. It stops. And yes, there is that
moment of tenderness like down the stairs. where
he kisses him. And that's a really sweet kiss.
That's the kiss you give someone, you know, when
when you've had like sex with them the first
time and you want to continue to do it and you
want to date them. That's a dating kiss. That's
a dating kiss. That's not a hookup kiss. Before
that, though, he's like, well, I'm done. I do
feel like that sets up this sort of. like intimacy
withdrawal thing that they keep doing. They're
intimate. And then they go further every time.
And then they like run back like little rabbits.
You know what I mean? But they keep getting further
even if they keep running back. Right. They keep
running back. And it's more intense. Each encounter
is subsequently, I think, more intense. in its
emotionality, even though they say nothing. And
I think it's all those other gestures outside
of the actual sex occurring that really lead
to that conclusion. Like, yeah, he's like, okay,
I'm leaving. Bye. We're done. But then on the
stairs, they can't stop kissing each other. They
can't stop, like, wanting to stay. They want
to stay. They want to stay. They want to stay.
The one part that I think I want to bring up
is the very the end when Ilya says, was it worth
the wait? And instead of answering him with words,
Shane does something so intimate, so relationship
coded. He just leans in and holds his chin and
gives him this like beautiful. kiss of saying,
not only was it worth it, it is something I've
been waiting for my entire life with you specifically.
While they still refuse to define any type of
relationship, it shows that they have crossed
this line that they cannot emotionally walk back
from. And like you said, at the very end, when
Ilya kisses him, he reinforces that cycle of
intimacy following that emotional. OK, I'm out.
Give me my jacket. I'm out. You know, like retreat,
like the emotional retreat. It being his first
time. And listen, we know that Ilya has been
with at least one other man. And clearly it wasn't
like this. You know, it probably was just a very
let's get each other off relationship because
no one else in Russia could do that for us, you
know. So for Ilya, it also is very emotionally
charged. And that's why he has that little moment
of when Shane kisses him right at the end. And
he goes, oh, I got to go. Like, I got to leave,
you know. And you could see it in his face because
Connor's stories act. I mean, both of their acting
is insane. But you could see it in his face like,
oh, this has crossed the line for me. This is
too tender. Bye. I need to leave. But he can't
help himself at the end when he kisses him again.
You know, he can't help himself. And Ilya often
cannot help himself with showing that emotional
depth that he so very hard tries to hide. Yeah.
Yeah, because he can't like he has the depth.
That's the problem. That's the problem. He feels
it. Exactly. Yeah. And so then he tries to completely
get rid of them. Right. He has realized that
after that and so she that life is too complicated
for this to add to it. Right. Like his life is
too complicated. He does not need. Shane fucking
Hollander adding an extra layer of complication
to his life. Right. Right. And so he tries very
hard to get rid of it completely. But if it has
to stay, at least it could just be just casual.
Right. And that's why we get Vegas. Right. Because
it's obvious that both of them want this to not
end, but also to end. And they're both resisting
and they're both wanting it so badly. To remove
that extra layer of emotion, Vegas happens. Yep.
And that scene is obviously an escalation. It's
a scene where Ilya thinks he has more control
than he has. It's a time where Shane thinks he
has less control than he has, but realizes he
has more control within the situation, whereas
Ilya realizes he has less control within the
situation as it's happening. Because Ilya comes
up and he's like, yeah, I'm the dom, you... perform
for me you know whatever and you know establishing
that relationship but also taking out like the
intimacy like the the sweetness of it all right
and then shane is like you know i'll do it whatever
like he's uncomfortable but he's gonna do it
he's willing to do it because he wants it so
fucking badly this sex scene is the biggest battle
for them. As sexy and as hot and the chair and
they both look gorgeous, right? They're both
in suits and their bodies are absolutely insane.
The lighting, like you've talked about this last
time, like it's visually gorgeous and sexy. And
the music, that like Inferno, we talked about
that too, like everything about that scene oozes
sex, right? And no intimate, like no emotional
intimacy. And that's done very on purpose because
the narrative here is they are trying to not
be with each other, but they are failing miserably,
you know? And that's why that scene is so pivotal
because it reverses their usual dynamic. It shows
Shane is taking rare control and reclaiming something
that like rejection he's felt throughout the
whole Sochi thing, right? So after they finish
having that raw, quote unquote, emotionless sex.
They're in bed and they're talking. And, you
know, from Shane's point of view, he says to
himself, like, I feel like I'm going to be like,
I'm going to feel shame after this, but not yet.
And I'm just going to enjoy it. Right. Right.
And then when Ilya says, OK, I should go to sleep.
You know, we do get the Ilya's point of view.
In the book, this line like always kills me.
It's from Shane's point of view. And it says
something like, ah, there is that shame. Right.
Because like it like creeps back. Right. And
like and Ilya wasn't he couldn't he couldn't
have that conversation. He doesn't want to he
doesn't want to talk about that. And he says
from Ilya's point of view, Ilya does say like
when when Shane asks about Russia, Ilya wants
to tell him everything, but he can't. So instead,
he just says, I should sleep. And Shane's point
of view after I should sleep is, ah, there's
that shame. Yep. You know, that character that
just follows Shane around. Right. Most of the
time, you know, that shame that creeps back in.
They both were trying something they couldn't
get past. And Shane leaves. And of course, we
get the, you know, we didn't even kiss. And Shane
realizes that he fucking cares. And he's horrified.
Yeah, he regretted it. And it was horrifying
that he regretted it, you know. And so while
they tried to have this time completely emotion
-free without loving each other or whatever,
it actually furthers the narrative of them wanting
each other more. And I thought that was... Yeah.
They tried so hard. Yeah. It's the most emotional,
emotional, emotionless sex ever. You're like,
I think that's why it struck a weird chord. Because
if you were having that with your hookup, you
should be like really excited that happened.
Right. Like it was like, yeah, it was hot. Yeah.
Like nobody's happy after that. And even and
it reminds me of, you know, this. I don't want
to reduce it to angry sex, but they're trying
to be emotionless about it because they are like,
we can't have emotional sex. So let's just try
to have sex without emotions. But at the same
time, all we're seething is emotions. You know,
that's what we get. Like the rawest emotion,
too. That scene. It's just like coming off of
them. But they're not explaining to each other
what the emotion is. And so it just comes off
as closed off. Yeah. And I'm not fooled as a
viewer or the reader. Not at all. And I'm like,
hello. I know. I know. And like so many people
feel so bad for Shane, which, listen, I get it.
I too feel bad. We didn't even kiss. Oh, heartbreaking.
Heartbreaking, you know? And again, if this was
one of your friends, like one of your girlfriends,
and she was having this type of relationship
with a man, you'd be like, run away. Like, he
is not worth your time. He's clearly damaged.
Like, you don't need that shit, right? But with
Shane, we're like, but... you know, he has all
these complicated feelings and emotions, Shane,
because we're rooting for them at the end of
the day. We are rooting for them because the
other thing is, is the umbrella of homophobia
that they have. No, of course. Yeah. And I think
that I think is the difference. It's like they're
processing this homophobia in two different ways
and they're not talking to each other about it
either. You know what I mean? You know, they're
not even just not talking about their relationship
to each other. They're not talking about the
way they need to approach. this homophobia and
how it impacts them, internalized, externalized,
all of it. And they're not talking about their
own relationship to their identity with each
other. So it's like three layers. It's like they're
not actually talking about how their relationship
is because before they reconcile their relationship,
they have to reconcile their identity and they
have to reconcile how the external world is going
to. approach it. You're right, because that's
why we root for them, because we realize that
a lot of their actions and words and silence
is rooted in this culture of homophobia. Well,
you're going to now talk about Tuna Meltdown.
Oh, Tuna Meltdown. Usually I talk about this.
This is my reversing the script. I want to hear
your thoughts. I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous.
This is firmly your territory. So, okay. I have
A word for this. It's so funny because, you know,
a bunch of stuff happens between Vegas and Tuna
Meltdown. And I know it happens, but when we're
doing the scene analysis, I'm like, did they
forget about Vegas? Like, it's just like, it's
not there. That's what I mean. Like, it's like
they're being deliberately obtuse. They're like,
I'm like, do you not remember what happened?
Baby, like. Hello. Can we can we actually. And
I think that's why for them distance like the
actual distance that they have to have and the
actual fact that they have to be apart from each
other in the offseason and whatever is like really
playing into their. Yeah. Avoidance behavior.
It's really helping. It's helping. Yeah. Because
it's easier when you don't see each other all
the time to to avoid one another. Obviously,
when you're. oceans apart. Yeah, exactly. In
all ways. And it's so, so then you go from that
incredibly intense Vegas scene to Tuna Meltdown
where it's like, it starts kind of casually.
I think the key difference here, at least lighting
wise and the way the style is, is I, okay, I
call it daytime intimacy. I think this is like
really the first time you start to see it. happen.
Daytime intimacy. You're right. Because before
that, it's always been at night. Yeah. Or it
starts at night or it's dark. Like the room is
dark, the hotel room, whatever. This is like
a new beast for them. They approach it, of course,
with like no sense of where they were before.
It's like, hey, OK, we're we're just I'm just
popping in here. There's there's like an element
of like I don't want to say sloppiness, but like
it's it's. It's unraveling. It's unraveling.
And I think that's why the tuna meltdown happens
at exactly this moment. This combination of things
like, are they ready for this daytime intimacy?
Are they ready to spend the whole day in bed
together, having sex, but also just cuddling?
Are they ready for that after Vegas? No, no.
They need to talk first, but they don't. They
always seem to take the leap before they actually
analyze where the leap is going to take them.
And I think that's why Tuna Meltdown occurs as
it is, because they have sex. It's really emotional
sex. And then they're cuddling. And one of my
favorite micro moments is when Ilya pretends
to be sleeping when he's like clearly awake.
And he's like, oh, wait, what? I just woke up.
You know, you're like, you've been staring at
this man in your bed for a little bit. For six
years. Yeah. And he's like literally staring
at him. He's clearly in love with him at this
point. So in love. Right? And he's watching him
sleep. And it's so miles away from Vegas. You
know what I mean? Yeah. My God, like you are
completely lost. If Vegas was his attempt to
shut it down, well, that failed. And so. Colossal
fail. A complete fail. And one of the things
that came up, and I don't even know why I didn't
think about this before, is when our guest last
episode, Jayanthi, said he takes. his little
macrobiotic diet thing everywhere he goes. He
goes over to Hayden's house and he's eating that
at their house. But on the spur of the moment,
Ilya's like, do you want a tuna melt? And he's
like, sure, I'll have a tuna melt. You know,
like it's that sense of losing control. He's
giving up control. He doesn't even realize it
because he just said yes to this tuna melt. It's
like the tuna melt of... Tuna melt of doom, tuna
melt of love, whatever you want to call it. It's
like all of it. The tuna melt itself. represents
the complete loss of control both of them have
in the relationship. Complete loss of control.
And they think they're in control. And I think
that's why it unfolds. And then you have the
added complication, drama, emotional, seething
vortex of Ilya's dad arriving into the conversation,
you know? And it's just such a charged moment.
And right after that, of course, Shane asks Ilya,
everything okay with your dad and unlike the
last time where shane attempts to ask and is
like completely shut down both physically and
verbally he embraces shane and to me that is
actually comfort like yeah you know sometimes
you don't want to talk about it with your partner
and your partner's like but i'm not gonna leave
you i'm still gonna stay by you yeah And then,
you know, Shane's on his chest. And then they
have the frauding scene. This is Shane's way
of comforting him through that because now sex
is saying everything emotionally that they can't.
Shane somehow recognized that Ilya is not pushing
me away after I'm trying to get into this territory
of Russia and father and family. And then he
reciprocates. by having this intense sex where
they're facing each other. And he takes control.
Shane starts the encounter, right? Shane starts
grabbing him and Shane starts the kissing. Ilya
looks to me like totally unraveled. There's no
pretense of like the suaveness. Like what you
saw in Vegas was suave and sexy and stylized.
I think that's the word we used last time. This
is like completely unraveled, completely. unexpected.
It's happening in broad daylight, like the sun
is streaming in. It's so spontaneous and it followed
a really emotional moment. One of the other things
that happens in that background is that there's
that partition right between the doors and it's
like this shaking his hand and his whole body
is shaking after he has that phone call. So you
could tell that he's already kind of really wound
up. And we don't see wound up emotionally. At
least Shane doesn't see him very often, right?
And of course, they say each other's names because
there's no pretense anymore. And they're facing
each other while they're having sex. And then
they completely panic. These boys, they jump
into this deep end. It's like they forgot they
can't swim. And they haven't talked about it.
They haven't planned for any of it. They're just
planning. the next encounter without planning
what does this mean ever. Because they can't
plan what it means because they are trying actively
to not have it be this. I know. More than anything,
I think what the show gives us is just the deep
pain that is created by these external structures.
for no reason, right? Like, isn't it hard enough
that maybe they can't figure their shit out because
there are two people who don't have the emotional
vocabulary yet. But on top of this, you layer
this homophobia and the fact that you can't be
gay. You can't be gay. You can't be bi. You can't
be queer. You can't be any of these things. And
you see how painful it is. They are trying not
to be in love. They cannot help it. And you're
like, why? What is the cause? The tuna mouth
broke our collective hearts. But more than anything,
I think that moment, even though it was so intimate
between two people, was the moment that really
was like, why? Why? Like, why are we doing this
to kids like this? You know, to me, that. Was
part of the heartbreak, too. As you're saying
it, like, my heart hurts. I feel like I have
a lump in my throat because, like, your why is
so us collective, right? Your heart breaks for
the two of them because you know how deeply they
care about each other. And that whole scene at
Ilya's apartment, it's like... So domestic, right?
And as you said, between Vegas and this scene,
what's happening? I mean, we do get the montage.
You know that there's been multiple hookups throughout
this time. And we know, based on the prologue,
right, that they're getting closer to one another
emotionally. And this moment is just so domestic.
And that's where the narrative goes. Domestic
intimacy. Being in Ilya's home makes the relationship
feel more real. Ilya asking Shane to stay makes
it more real. Shane asking about his dad makes
it more real. You and I have slightly different
interpretations of why Shane takes it from an
emotional, soft... hanging out, hugging on the
couch to sex. I thought that Shane was freaking
out the entire time, starting with the stay to
where Ilya says, do you like a tuna melt? You
could see it in his face. He's like, what the
fuck is going up? The entire time, his face,
his eyes are just like, what is happening? So
when Ilya takes him and pulls him in and starts
smelling his hair, Shane is like, I don't know.
This is not what we're used to. Let's have sex.
Like, this is where I'm most comfortable. And
because he was feeling it the entire time. Like,
this is not. what we have been doing for the
last six years we have been fucking and leaving
we have never stayed you have never made me food
you've never hugged me and smelled my hair and
then of course it ends with the names and shane's
like yeah that's it that i'm out like like that
is exactly what i was trying to avoid and it
has happened and my brain cannot handle it and
I need to leave as soon as fucking possible.
Everything you've said obviously rings true.
And it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. That
scene is more heartbreaking than the we didn't
even kiss, than Sochi, than... Because here you
know that they're done for. Like, they are so
in love. And now the denial is so much stronger
than it has ever been. Because it has to be.
Especially for Shane, because he has not come
to terms with the fact that he's gay yet. I actually
really like the contrast that we had in terms
of why he started to try to. Right. Like the
different point of view, because you can see
it so many different ways. Yeah, you could. And
that's really interesting. But at the end, it's
right. It's like pure panic. It's pure panic.
Remember, like Shane is already easily panicked
in the book, actually. When Shane realizes he
says his name, he says he looks down at Ilya
and Ilya looked as horrified. as Shane was feeling.
So, but in the show, it doesn't feel that way.
Yeah. Like in the show, it feels much more like
Ilya was like, okay with that. And he didn't
understand temporarily why Shane freaked out,
but then he obviously understood because he switched
from Shane to Hollander twice thinking maybe
that will deescalate him, but it didn't work.
Hollander was so plaintive. He was begging him.
Yeah. Like chill. Yeah. Like calm down. It's
fine. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean to say
your name. I didn't mean to say your name, but,
but. The way he said Hollander, you're like,
he could have said Shane again. It's like the
cat's out of the bag. He said Shane. Now he's
trying to say Hollander, but he can't get back
into it. You can't put that shit back into it.
He can't get back to pretending the wall is still
intact. The way he says Hollander in that moment,
it's like a bookend to when he says Hollander
at the end of episode one, when Shane walks away.
He's like, what the fuck are you doing? We're
both in tuxedos. Like, why are you kissing me
here? People can see us. And then Shane walks
away. And Ilya says, same idea, Hollander. And
like, it's like he's trying to bring him back.
back over because that kiss at the end of episode
one was hungry like we need this like so hungry
and Shane realizes that and Shane also freaks
out a little bit there and walks away, you know,
and Ilya also says Hollander. So that those two
scenes are very like mirroring to me. I always
think it's interesting that you talked about
control and Shane's always controlling the eventual
path of this relationship. I never get the sense
that Ilya would ever say no to Shane. Shane says
that all the time about Ilya. They say it about
each other, but actually. I think for Ilya, like,
he'll always come back. Oh, yeah, 100%. That's
what happens. But Shane is the one who puts the
kibosh, right? He stops it now. Yep, yep. He
stops it at Tuna Melt. He has had that control
the whole time. Yep, yep. He probably didn't
realize it, but yeah. He doesn't, he doesn't.
And when he restarts it, it's on his terms again.
Yep, yep. Which is why I think the... the subtlety
of it being Shane's point of view that is in
Heated Rivalry to me comes out in the show. And
even in the book, it's two points of view, right?
Like it's Shane and Ilya. Yeah. It always feels
more like it's Shane's point of view. Yeah. He's
driving the narrative often. We don't see sex.
in episode five right at all like after tuna
meltdown we don't see sex for a while until the
cottage uh there's implied sex obviously after
they finally have their conversation where they
confess to one another in in tampa bay the intimate
moment of hugging one another the obviously post
sex when shane is about to leave and ilia tests
him and said good night shane right and then
he's like i know what the fuck you're doing good
night ilia that sex that we don't get that obviously
pushes the narrative forward to them being more
emotionally open with one another. And then,
you know, then we get the Skype conversation,
which we also assume is going to be sex because
he's like, put on your glasses, take off your
shirt, make me feel better. It also drives the
narrative further in terms of having this emotional
intimacy because Shane, he's the one driving
the narrative. Now that he's comfortable with
himself, he reaches out to Ilya, asks for the
room number. He is now pushing that. forward
shane had to get there on his own because he
has to reconcile his identity as a gay yeah that's
the first thing the only way the first step yeah
absolutely and then You know, the last sex scene.
Taking us to the cottage. I'm taking us to the
cottage, right? I'm finishing us off. You're
finishing us off. I'm finishing us off. Your
orgasm better be as good as Shane's. But yeah,
like the only other actual intimate physical
scene we get in the cottage is. Post, I love
you. We have in the cottage an obviously completely
different shift and tone. They're in the daylight.
They are experiencing this intimacy without the
urgency of time limits, like the secrecy temporarily.
goes away, right? Because they're still protected
by the cottage. It moves the narrative almost
toward like a resolution, right? Because they're
finally fully both able to say what they wanted
to say for years. And they're able to be emotionally
honest. And they are seeing a life, the potential
of a life that feels sustainable and possible.
And that is it. That is the emotional finale,
the grand finale of the sex intimacy scenes throughout
the show and the novel. You know, I have a slightly
different interpretation of the life they're
envisioning. First of all, the fact that David
walks in on them was like a gift to them because
honestly, it really. pulls more people into this.
I understand why the secrecy is there, but now
it pulls people in. They have a support system.
They desperately need a support system. Desperately.
Desperately, right? Like, Ilya needs a family.
Shane needs his family to know they need this.
To me, it was more like, I don't know if they
saw a future yet, but I feel like they're seeing
themselves, at least, honestly. They're like,
I have feelings for you. You have feelings for
me. We love each other. And then David walking
in kind of makes it real. I don't know when Shane
would have come out to his parents. I don't know,
actually. Who knows? Who knows, right? Yeah.
Right? And that, I think, the combo of I love
you and then Shane just being like... OK, I have
to come out to my parents. There's no choice.
There's no choice. I think that combo actually
gives them a sense of future because we know
Yuna being who she is. She is planning. She's
more of a planner than Shane is because she also
has like that emotional wherewithal because she's,
you know, a mom. And a woman. Like we said, they
need a woman. They do. They all do. And Yuna's
going to fix it all up. No. I just don't know
when Shane would have come out to his parents,
honestly. Yeah. And he needed to. I think Shane,
it will take Shane a long time to do anything.
He needs to be pushed, possibly accidentally,
to get there because otherwise he will just be
scared forever. Yep. I agree. But I do agree
that Ilya is seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Well,
that's that. TBD. Let's see what happens. I mean,
I can talk about sex all day forever. Yeah, I
think you and I could probably do another hour
here. But unfortunately for us and our listeners,
we must end. The time has come. To close out
the episode with our moments of sunshine. So
Diana, what's your moment of sunshine for this
week? We planned this day in Philly yesterday
and we went to the Ministry of Awe in Old City.
And then we went to an amazing Thai restaurant,
which I'm dreaming about. The Ministry of Awe
is so much fun. It's like a police touch for
adults, like police touch museum for adults.
We like literally just played in this museum
for hours yesterday. A great time. So awesome.
It's right in Old City and it's perfect because
you could like walk around the city after. And
then we went to a Thai restaurant. It's called
Grandma's Philly. It is absolutely delicious.
We ordered everything on the menu. We ate everything
on the menu. It was a gloomy day, but we had
so much fun. We brought our own sunshine into
the city and had. The best day. Honestly, it
was the best day. So that's my sunshine. Time
in Philly, playing and eating delicious food
with our friends. Yeah, I have a little bit of
FOBO. You weren't there. I was not there for
this one. My moment of sunshine is my best friend
and our kids. Four of our five kids all have
birthdays that cluster around the last three
weeks. So we had a family party for. kind of
celebrating all of them at her place. And she
has identical twins who turned three. And my
favorite part about the whole thing was watching
my babies be with slightly smaller babies. And
it was just so adorable how sweet they were with
the little babies and the babies. They're now
aware that they can talk and they talk constantly.
There's now one period of silence, not one moment
of silence until they fall asleep. They're just
talking to each other and to us. And so they
sang this song that my daughter made me sing
to her. at bedtime yesterday, which is essentially,
this is the way we wash our hair, wash our hair,
wash our hair. This is the way we wash our hair.
You look great. And that's how the twins sing
it. They say it so emphatically. They go, you
look great. Absolutely. And they stop there.
And it's like, the end. So cute. The end. You're
like, okay. And they sang it so many times. My
daughter made me sing it to her at bedtime and
the babies were all laughing and it was really
the best. So if I had to miss. Amazing Thai food
and a lovely day in Philly with the girls. I
am so glad I did it for those. Yeah. I mean,
that's cute. Very cute. We did miss you, but
I'm glad you had a good time without us. So with
the three -year -old twins. Next week on Everyone
Deserves Sunshine, Anusha and I are closing out
the season. We're just going to talk about our
podcast, our thoughts for next time, and just
each other and our company. Reminisce. It's a
reminiscing podcast. Yeah, reminiscing. And so
subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.
And if you want to say hi to the girls in the
crease, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Threads
at EveryoneDeservesSunshine. Or you can email
us at EveryoneDeservesSunshine at gmail .com.
New episodes drop on Mondays. See you then.