WEBVTT 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:16.120 watch much TV, but I've been taken prisoner by 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:21.239 heated rivalry. I'd heard that I might feel some 00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:25.000 type of way, but I didn't think I'd be this fucked 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:29.480 up every single day. I'm having wicked dreams, 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:34.119 a man on hockey teams, fated to fall in love, 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:38.619 drowning in secrecy. I don't claim to be proud. 00:00:41.359 --> 00:01:22.099 I'm Shane and Ilya, I always wanna scream Welcome 00:01:22.099 --> 00:01:24.400 to Everyone Deserves Sunshine. I'm Diana. And 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:27.079 I'm Anusha. We're the girls in the crease. And 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.040 our intro sounds a little different today, Diana. 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.159 Yeah, you just heard the amazing cover of Pink 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.219 Pony Club by Alisa. Thank you, Alisa, for giving 00:01:37.219 --> 00:01:39.920 us permission to use this stellar homage. I mean, 00:01:39.939 --> 00:01:42.000 I don't even want to call it a parody because 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.140 let's be honest, the words are really speaking 00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:49.099 to me in a very personal way. Very personal way. 00:01:51.549 --> 00:01:53.950 It's lightly unhinged, but it's like so truthful 00:01:53.950 --> 00:01:57.189 and honestly like oddly moving. I think I've 00:01:57.189 --> 00:01:59.430 listened to it, I don't know, like definitely 00:01:59.430 --> 00:02:01.569 a dozen times probably by now. I want it like 00:02:01.569 --> 00:02:04.769 on my Spotify playlist. I mean, it is truly a 00:02:04.769 --> 00:02:08.289 professional job. I'm always blown away by the... 00:02:08.849 --> 00:02:11.849 creativity and the sheer talent shown by this 00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:14.750 fandom it's like absolutely insane it's I know 00:02:14.750 --> 00:02:17.229 bonkers I know like every day I see something 00:02:17.229 --> 00:02:19.009 new and exciting and like I'm always sharing 00:02:19.009 --> 00:02:22.759 things and she wrote the song about her feelings 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.500 for the show, aka like all of our feelings for 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:27.280 the show. And we're all listening to it because 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.360 like we get those feelings because it's all our 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:31.520 feelings, all of them, you know? All our feelings, 00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:35.500 all of them. Wait, Diana, did you know the title 00:02:35.500 --> 00:02:39.180 of our episode today is Women in Our Feelings? 00:02:39.689 --> 00:02:42.650 And our feelings? I'm shocked, girl. Like, shocked. 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:49.389 What? And also, also, also, this is episode 10, 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:54.729 Double Digits Baby. Oh, my God. Whoa. The big 00:02:54.729 --> 00:02:57.669 10. I can't believe we've been doing this for 00:02:57.669 --> 00:03:02.349 10 weeks. I was about to say like 10 years, but 00:03:02.349 --> 00:03:05.189 it kind of feels like 10 years, right? Because 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:08.620 outside of this, there's a lot. going on. Yeah, 00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:11.939 exactly. All right. So let's go. This is episode 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:15.840 10, Women and Our Feelings. So Women and Our 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.580 Feelings, that's kind of a timely topic for Women's 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:23.419 History Month. And I want to just say most of 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:26.879 the time, I just feel like this. raw, exposed 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.520 nerve walking around this world. Like, do you 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.719 feel that way? Of course, yeah. I feel like we 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.340 all do. I read this post, actually, by Kristen 00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:37.379 Chirico, I believe. That's her handle on threads. 00:03:37.780 --> 00:03:40.360 And it's an older post, probably like from December, 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.819 I want to say. But it keeps circulating around 00:03:42.819 --> 00:03:45.479 the fandom, and she wrote, if I have learned 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:48.699 nothing else from heated rivalry discourse, it's 00:03:48.699 --> 00:03:52.979 that women are fucking sad. Like, sad in a bone 00:03:52.979 --> 00:03:55.909 -deep trench foot off the... heart kind of way. 00:03:56.210 --> 00:03:58.629 There's a hopelessness that has sort of been 00:03:58.629 --> 00:04:02.389 buried in the backyard of our minds for years. 00:04:02.669 --> 00:04:05.229 And it feels like a dog or it feels like the 00:04:05.229 --> 00:04:08.210 dog just dug it up, so to speak. And when I read 00:04:08.210 --> 00:04:11.449 that, I thought literally, yes, like exactly 00:04:11.449 --> 00:04:14.430 the feeling. Women are sad and we need to make 00:04:14.430 --> 00:04:16.689 an episode about that because it has a lot to 00:04:16.689 --> 00:04:19.509 do with us and heated rivalry and so on. And 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:23.959 do you remember what I said? I do. And I'm sure 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.379 you're about to tell everyone. I said I love 00:04:26.379 --> 00:04:29.819 trench foot. I did say that. I said that. It's 00:04:29.819 --> 00:04:32.720 like you said it repeatedly, too. Like I tried 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.420 to ignore it. I'm like, OK, no one loves trench 00:04:35.420 --> 00:04:37.120 foot. First of all, I didn't even exactly know 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.139 like what it was. But right now I'm a captive 00:04:40.139 --> 00:04:43.939 audience. So why don't you? talk about it. Yeah, 00:04:44.060 --> 00:04:46.439 because I have been trying to tell you what Trenchfoot 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:48.980 is and you like never took the bait. So here 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.360 you are. This entire moment, this podcast has 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.740 been for this moment. Oh wait, are we doing this 00:04:56.740 --> 00:04:58.600 just so you could talk about Trenchfoot? Yes. 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.839 Okay, awesome. This is no longer a heated rivalry 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:05.600 podcast. This is about a World War I injury. 00:05:05.819 --> 00:05:10.920 Okay, so first of all, Kristen's framing of the 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:13.490 post appeals. to me in every way. And by the 00:05:13.490 --> 00:05:16.269 way, Kristen, if you're listening, thank you 00:05:16.269 --> 00:05:19.230 for inspiring this episode. I mean, this fandom 00:05:19.230 --> 00:05:23.329 is just completely amazing. So we did a whole 00:05:23.329 --> 00:05:26.269 episode based on this thread that you made in 00:05:26.269 --> 00:05:30.410 December. But OK, so I'm an infectious disease 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.180 doctor. Wait, you're a doctor? I am. I had no 00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:35.339 idea. You had no idea. Have I mentioned it? You 00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:37.899 have never mentioned this ever before. Go ahead. 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.660 Sorry. Including on this podcast, right? So I'm 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:44.339 specifically an infectious disease doctor. I 00:05:44.339 --> 00:05:48.259 love British period dramas. And I really love 00:05:48.259 --> 00:05:51.480 this very vivid metaphor. So Trench Foot of the 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:56.379 Heart really, really speaks to me. Like, OK, 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.480 like, OK, like, tell me how it speaks to you. 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.740 And exactly for the listeners who may not know 00:06:02.740 --> 00:06:06.000 what trench foot is, please explain it to us. 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:07.879 And I could see it in your face that you really 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:12.360 badly cannot wait. Go ahead. So, OK, so it's 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.000 like frostbite, but without the frost. And it's 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.019 this like throwback to World War One. things 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:21.459 that affected British and American soldiers because 00:06:21.459 --> 00:06:24.939 apparently their trenches were at a lower elevation 00:06:24.939 --> 00:06:27.579 and allowed water to accumulate. I'm going to 00:06:27.579 --> 00:06:29.759 stop here. I could talk a lot more about the 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.779 actual nuances. I think I'm good. I think I'm 00:06:32.779 --> 00:06:35.959 good. I think, yeah. But why does this metaphor 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:39.360 speak to me? And you're going to like this, Diana. 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:43.610 We'll see. TBD. TB determined. I don't, like 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:46.170 is a weird word to use for this metaphor, but 00:06:46.170 --> 00:06:48.009 you're going to, it's going to speak to you. 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:52.939 I promise. Trench foot is this injury that happens 00:06:52.939 --> 00:06:56.300 with prolonged exposure to a bad environment, 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.620 right? You don't get trench foot from one bad 00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:02.660 day. You get it from being stuck, wet, cold, 00:07:02.779 --> 00:07:07.220 without reprieve for way too long. And the tissue 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:10.300 doesn't get slashed. It just stops getting enough 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:14.259 blood. It's painful. Then it becomes numb. And 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:17.639 then it rots and dies from neglect. And that's 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.620 like a really specific kind of suffering. It's 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:24.819 not this like catastrophic blow, but it's a sustained 00:07:24.819 --> 00:07:29.540 circulatory fatigue and collapse. Wait, were 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:32.259 you still talking about trench foot at that moment 00:07:32.259 --> 00:07:34.560 or were you trying to move to something else? 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.600 Well, I see that that's the metaphor, right? 00:07:37.699 --> 00:07:41.560 Like she's describing this feeling. this trench 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.620 foot of the heart where you're just been exposed 00:07:44.620 --> 00:07:49.060 to this bad environment for so long that something 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:53.379 in it just like turns numb and it's like rotting, 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.959 right? And I'm sort of jealous at how great this 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.279 metaphor is because I think it strikes at the 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:04.160 core of how women's grief, whether it's a personal 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.800 one or a collective one, manifests. And it inspired 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.689 you to write something, right? It did. Like that 00:08:11.689 --> 00:08:15.430 whole, that whole thread inspired an essay that 00:08:15.430 --> 00:08:19.209 I wrote and it's called I Died in 2020 and Six 00:08:19.209 --> 00:08:21.949 Episodes Revived Me. And can I read something 00:08:21.949 --> 00:08:24.629 like a little bit from it? Oh my gosh, of course. 00:08:24.709 --> 00:08:29.079 Go for it. And obviously it has to do with trench 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:34.100 foot. So I said, I said, I died in March 2020, 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.659 but very possibly I had been slowly dying for 00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:39.919 a long time. It wasn't the kind of death that 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.919 stops your heart. It was quieter, much more unseen, 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.299 but perhaps even more tragic. It was the kind 00:08:46.299 --> 00:08:48.980 where you keep waking up, answering emails, making 00:08:48.980 --> 00:08:51.500 dinner, smiling when appropriate and expected. 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.720 The kind where your body keeps moving, but the 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.919 person inside of you almost intends entirely 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.399 disappears my death wasn't sudden it was a death 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.299 by accumulation a death by a million paper cuts 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:05.899 and a few deep slashes you even said the word 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:10.059 slash but oof that is french foot right like 00:09:10.059 --> 00:09:13.120 that's the i'm sorry i just every time you say 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.159 it i have to laugh i know it's not funny but 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.850 listen Audience, this is a listeners is a very 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:21.190 serious topic about women and their feelings 00:09:21.190 --> 00:09:25.309 and also trench foot. So we can help ourselves 00:09:25.309 --> 00:09:27.669 to make serious things kind of silly and funny. 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.110 Yeah, because that's what we do with our trench 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:33.769 foot. But like it's that that's what I mean. 00:09:33.789 --> 00:09:37.850 It's this like crushing, chronic, low grade grief 00:09:37.850 --> 00:09:42.629 that. I think women just really, we feel that. 00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:45.049 We feel that in our bones. And listen, we talk 00:09:45.049 --> 00:09:47.549 so much about joy and finding sunshine and all 00:09:47.549 --> 00:09:51.090 these feelings that heated rivalry evokes. But 00:09:51.090 --> 00:09:53.490 on the flip, it's interesting to me that so many 00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:55.649 women within the fandom specifically, because 00:09:55.649 --> 00:09:57.730 I've been reading and paying attention, are also 00:09:57.730 --> 00:10:01.049 expressing this deep sadness when talking about 00:10:01.049 --> 00:10:04.929 heated rivalry. This emotional response that 00:10:04.929 --> 00:10:07.190 seems to be occurring in women watching the show. 00:10:07.909 --> 00:10:10.529 Like it's sadness and joy intertwined kind of. 00:10:10.529 --> 00:10:13.269 And like, why is it happening? What is your theory? 00:10:13.429 --> 00:10:16.629 So when I think about it, Shane and Ilya's story 00:10:16.629 --> 00:10:21.169 is not just this like romantic, hot love affair. 00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:23.889 I mean, it's definitely that, but it's not just 00:10:23.889 --> 00:10:27.529 that. And I think at the core of it, it's also 00:10:27.529 --> 00:10:31.970 a story about loss because Shane and Ilya have. 00:10:32.379 --> 00:10:36.279 a decade of carrying something real and precious 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:40.259 in complete secrecy. They have a decade of a 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:43.360 relationship that exists but could never be expressed. 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.120 And because for Shane, that could have lost his 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.159 career, cost him that career. And that career 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:55.279 is, you know, the love of his life too. And for 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.580 Ilya, in addition to that, I mean, he could have 00:10:57.580 --> 00:11:01.509 lost his life. He could have... gotten hurt because 00:11:01.509 --> 00:11:05.750 he was a closeted hockey player from Russia. 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:09.490 I mean, those are the stakes for the show, which 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:13.470 sometimes we don't always, I don't know, it's 00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:17.750 there, but it's not always there. I mean, that's 00:11:17.750 --> 00:11:21.149 the beauty of the show, I think. But this is 00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:24.750 the thing. Women fundamentally understand. these 00:11:24.750 --> 00:11:27.750 high stakes. Maybe not the exact circumstances. 00:11:27.970 --> 00:11:30.330 And, you know, certainly queer women, of course, 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:32.690 have like a front row seat to all of this. But 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:36.230 women in general just understand being asked 00:11:36.230 --> 00:11:39.929 to hide ourselves, right? We understand navigating 00:11:39.929 --> 00:11:43.730 this tightrope of be enough, but not too much. 00:11:44.549 --> 00:11:48.960 We know this is the daily persistent. condition 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.279 of our existence um shane and ilia didn't have 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:55.480 the luxury of being themselves fully and neither 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:59.740 in ways that are big and small to many of the 00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:03.240 women watching this show and i think we understand 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:08.059 this loss in our bones yeah you're right and 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:11.639 like Women are incredibly good at continuing 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.200 to function, right, while carrying like all the 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.220 sadness that never fully resolves. We just like 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:20.679 keep moving and keep managing and keep caring 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:23.139 for other people, you know, while kind of ignoring 00:12:23.139 --> 00:12:26.980 ourselves. And the sadness that we feel often 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:29.759 slowly becomes part of this like emotional climate 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.159 that we live in. Like you said, it becomes, you 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.759 know, part of our bones, part of our makeup. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:37.120 I wrote that in my essay, like I wrote before 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.490 2020. mostly alive, like mostly is doing the 00:12:40.490 --> 00:12:43.110 heavy lifting here, you know, like I was a strong 00:12:43.110 --> 00:12:45.909 teacher, you know, I love my job with every fiber 00:12:45.909 --> 00:12:48.879 of my being. I enjoyed nothing more than coming 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:50.820 to work and talking to my juniors and seniors 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:53.080 about literature and writing and culture and 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:55.460 history and everything and anything that English 00:12:55.460 --> 00:12:57.200 high school English teachers talk about, you 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.879 know. And, you know, at the same time, I love 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.860 spending lunches with other teachers and administrators 00:13:02.860 --> 00:13:05.360 and all the other staff members in the building. 00:13:05.379 --> 00:13:07.519 Right. Like we discussed current events and politics 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:09.639 and best practices of education and just like 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:13.129 our personal lives. I loved being a teacher and 00:13:13.129 --> 00:13:15.789 a thinker and an innovator and like someone who 00:13:15.789 --> 00:13:19.230 others can count on. And I gave most of me to 00:13:19.230 --> 00:13:23.210 like my students and that job and the teacher 00:13:23.210 --> 00:13:25.289 I was becoming and the rest of it to like my 00:13:25.289 --> 00:13:27.110 family and my friends, you know, but I still 00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.590 felt even though I was giving so much, I felt 00:13:29.590 --> 00:13:32.210 alive. Like that made me feel alive. But you 00:13:32.210 --> 00:13:36.009 love teaching, right? Can you tell us why? I 00:13:36.009 --> 00:13:40.629 did. I left teaching. It was, again, trench foot. 00:13:40.990 --> 00:13:47.389 A lot of little cuts and deep cuts. I loved it. 00:13:47.409 --> 00:13:52.529 I gave it my all. But then 2020 hit and things 00:13:52.529 --> 00:13:56.230 changed in education. There were a lot more animosity 00:13:56.230 --> 00:14:00.950 towards educators, a lot more. Politics became 00:14:00.950 --> 00:14:03.710 a huge part of it, a part of teaching. You had 00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:07.440 to constantly kind of like walk on eggshells. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.360 You had to constantly watch what you say. Not 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.279 that I wouldn't, like I'm an educator. People 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.100 stop trusting educators, right? Like a lot of 00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:15.860 people. I mean, not everybody, obviously, but 00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:18.779 that like distrust, you know, I have several 00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.299 degrees. I, you know, won awards for teaching 00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:24.600 and it just became kind of like, why do I have 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:29.919 to prove my expertise, my professionalism? to 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.159 people who don't know what they're doing, but 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:33.799 they heard something, they read something, and 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.039 now they have to come into my classroom and tell 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:38.539 me how to do my job. So that was part of it. 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.679 You know, there was a lot of pressure put on 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:44.240 teachers post -pandemic or like, you know, in 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.340 the midst of it to like do certain things. Just 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.919 responsibilities kept piling on. I was already 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.200 very extra as a teacher. Like I already did so, 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:58.340 so, so much. Yeah, believe it or not, you know, 00:14:58.340 --> 00:15:01.419 I was not just a teacher like I was a mentor 00:15:01.419 --> 00:15:03.639 for new teachers. I was the department chair 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:06.340 for the English department. I was an instructional 00:15:06.340 --> 00:15:10.179 leader in my building. I wore a lot of hats. 00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:13.259 And then when you also put, you know, outside 00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:17.679 pressure and politics and, you know, extra responsibilities 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.759 that you never had pre -pandemic, you know, when 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.370 you have to teach. to the kids in front of you 00:15:23.370 --> 00:15:26.610 and to the kids on a computer screen at the same 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:29.850 time, it really started like to, I started to 00:15:29.850 --> 00:15:31.970 crumble little by little, little by little. I 00:15:31.970 --> 00:15:35.710 think I just burned out. Like, I think it no 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:38.470 longer became my passion because of all of these 00:15:38.470 --> 00:15:42.360 outside influences. And I, listen, like. I always 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.940 say if I can go back to teaching and be just 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.899 with the kids and just do that job and like just 00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:50.919 analyze literature like I would do it. It's heartbreaking 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:55.779 to leave something that you love so deeply and 00:15:55.779 --> 00:15:58.179 you care about so deeply and you're so good at, 00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:01.840 too, you know. And and, you know, and at the 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:05.679 same time, like I also left because my own kids 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.360 needed me, you know, and I felt like I was missing 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.129 a lot of there. growing up because I devoted 00:16:11.129 --> 00:16:14.429 so much to my students. And at some point, it 00:16:14.429 --> 00:16:18.070 just like the benefits did not outweigh the costs 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:21.269 of being a teacher. So I quit teaching. I started 00:16:21.269 --> 00:16:24.370 working from home. The life that had once been 00:16:24.370 --> 00:16:26.629 very animated for me completely disappeared. 00:16:26.730 --> 00:16:29.710 And like I became, I think the best way to describe 00:16:29.710 --> 00:16:32.629 it, like a functional zombie, essentially. Like 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:34.789 I just it was like my life became almost like 00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:38.860 robotic at that point. God. You know, women are 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.460 just rewarded for being dependable and holding 00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:46.019 themselves together, even at this great cost 00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:48.460 that you're describing, right? This moral injury, 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.700 actually. That's the actual word for it. Wait, 00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:55.320 moral injury? That is the word for it. I've never 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.720 heard that. That's a beautifully sad term. Beautifully 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.759 sad. It's when you are forced to do the wrong 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.940 thing that you know. in your heart of hearts 00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:12.299 is the wrong thing because an external force 00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:18.160 is compelling you. And I think people who are 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.160 professionals and are good at their jobs, the 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.720 people that we need desperately to be the teachers 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:31.109 and like that, it's hard to stand. for that. 00:17:31.509 --> 00:17:33.890 That's like the trench foot, right? Like in your 00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:36.609 career, like you're just like marinating in this 00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:42.109 bad environment and it dehumanizes you because 00:17:42.109 --> 00:17:44.690 you're doing something you know is not in the 00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:48.890 benefit of your kids. Diana, I have to say, like, 00:17:48.950 --> 00:17:52.390 I knew this, but when you say it like this, it's 00:17:52.390 --> 00:17:55.950 just... stunningly similar. Like I, I don't think 00:17:55.950 --> 00:17:57.869 you may have ever said it to me in this way. 00:17:57.930 --> 00:18:01.170 I mean, I read your piece, but when you said 00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:04.369 it like in this way, it was just like, oh my 00:18:04.369 --> 00:18:07.950 God, it's like parallel paths because I wanted 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:10.450 to be a pediatrician since the moment I knew 00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:13.950 I wanted to be a doctor. And I love, love taking 00:18:13.950 --> 00:18:16.190 care of kids. You know, they're so resilient. 00:18:16.289 --> 00:18:18.609 They're graceful. They're hilarious. They're 00:18:18.609 --> 00:18:22.750 so adaptive and they're just such a positive 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:27.170 force as, as, as like a pediatrician. That was 00:18:27.170 --> 00:18:29.890 like the thing that held me to the profession. 00:18:30.230 --> 00:18:33.849 Right. And when you're training to be a doctor 00:18:33.849 --> 00:18:37.230 and you trained for a much longer than maybe 00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:39.289 you needed to, to be the teacher you want it 00:18:39.289 --> 00:18:42.430 to be. Right. Like you're devoting like a decade 00:18:42.430 --> 00:18:46.029 or so of your life. And these are like. your 00:18:46.029 --> 00:18:49.690 hallmark years, your 20s, some of your 30s. I 00:18:49.690 --> 00:18:52.890 mean, these are key years that you're essentially 00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:55.529 saying, I'm going to do something that's going 00:18:55.529 --> 00:18:59.630 to take me away from all the other sort of like 00:18:59.630 --> 00:19:03.529 fun things you could be doing in your 20s, right? 00:19:03.730 --> 00:19:07.630 Of course. And I think when you have that, it's 00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:10.730 deeply wrapped in your identity. And I hear that 00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:13.470 from you too, like the way teaching was for you. 00:19:14.329 --> 00:19:16.470 I had like you don't and sorry to interrupt, 00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:19.089 but like when I was planning on leaving, when 00:19:19.089 --> 00:19:21.170 I finally was like, OK, I'm going to leave, I 00:19:21.170 --> 00:19:23.890 thought to myself, but who will I be? Like, I 00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:26.250 am a teacher. Like, who am I? What is going to 00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:28.009 be right? Like, what is going to become of me? 00:19:28.029 --> 00:19:29.650 Like when people ask me, like, oh, what do you 00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:31.190 do for a living? What am I going to say? And 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:33.069 like, it's such a weird thing to think about. 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:36.390 But like, it's it was such a huge part of who 00:19:36.390 --> 00:19:40.269 I am. And then it just no longer, you know, and 00:19:40.269 --> 00:19:44.279 it's just gone. And you. But you will always 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.059 be a teacher. I stumble a lot when I say pediatrician 00:19:47.059 --> 00:19:49.359 still because I don't know if I can say that 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.519 anymore. But one of the people that I worked 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:54.559 with said, Anusha, you're a pediatrician. Like, 00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:56.839 that's, like, literally where every part of me 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:58.279 comes from. That's your training. But, like, 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:00.779 it might no longer be your identity, though. 00:20:00.859 --> 00:20:03.339 You know? Like, that's what it is. So, yeah. 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:07.279 Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. So, I had some really 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.619 complicated pregnancy. And after my son, it became 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:14.109 completely unsustainable. I would give and give 00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:17.569 to my work. I thought of this as a calling. And 00:20:17.569 --> 00:20:20.750 it just wasn't enough. I couldn't meet a good 00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:23.869 mom, a good wife, a good doctor all at the same 00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:27.509 time. And the thing is, like, it never crossed 00:20:27.509 --> 00:20:31.029 my mind to ask, like, amongst these other things 00:20:31.029 --> 00:20:34.390 that I was, like, was I being good to me? Of 00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:37.220 course not. We don't ask ourselves that. Yeah. 00:20:37.339 --> 00:20:41.000 And I don't mean it in like this like, oh, poor 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.599 little me kind of way. And I just feel like I 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.109 always have to caveat. that sadness you know 00:20:47.109 --> 00:20:51.069 like that's oh oh look at that because I actually 00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:53.630 wrote about that I said every time a woman wants 00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:56.809 to talk about sadness right like or how she's 00:20:56.809 --> 00:20:58.849 feeling or whatever else like there's always 00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:01.230 got to be a disclaimer like I know that you do 00:21:01.230 --> 00:21:03.410 this you know that I do this we all do this like 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:06.089 of course I love my kids of course I'm grateful 00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:08.569 for the life right and then only then after you 00:21:08.569 --> 00:21:12.089 say like the quote -unquote societal like socially 00:21:12.089 --> 00:21:15.309 acceptable things you're supposed to say as a 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:18.029 mom, right? Like, I love my kids. I love this. 00:21:18.069 --> 00:21:20.529 I love that. Then you could only whisper the 00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:23.569 truth, which is, but I'm still sad, you know? 00:21:23.609 --> 00:21:26.750 Right, right. You just, you're always issuing 00:21:26.750 --> 00:21:30.309 an apology for feeling your feelings. Always, 00:21:30.390 --> 00:21:34.150 right? And I think, you know, anyway, it was 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.970 impossible to sustain that life. And the key 00:21:36.970 --> 00:21:40.849 and the moral injury description that you described 00:21:40.849 --> 00:21:44.230 really fell for me because honestly, I felt like 00:21:44.230 --> 00:21:47.779 this cog in a machine. I was completely disposable. 00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:51.119 I too was very, I'm very good. And I was like, 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:55.259 why am I feeling this way? So then I left clinical 00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.579 medicine. I was completely adrift. Like you said, 00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:02.059 I was relieved. How long ago was this? How long 00:22:02.059 --> 00:22:06.019 ago did you leave? Like eight years ago. Oh, 00:22:06.019 --> 00:22:09.619 wow. Okay. Right before the pandemic. Right before 00:22:09.619 --> 00:22:14.640 the pandemic. Okay. Yeah. So Yeah. Like I was 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.799 so relieved, but I was so sad. And at the same 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:21.279 time, I was like starting to be a mom. I was 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.440 supposed to be happy and I was sometimes. And 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:27.960 it was just a really complicated moment. Yeah, 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:32.400 of course. Yeah. It's you're you're leaving something 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.200 you love so deeply for your children. Like, I 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.319 mean, how is that not complicated? I feel like 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.859 I. I died, quote unquote, before I left teaching. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:43.440 And that was probably part of the, you know, 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:47.759 another reason that I left. The light, you know, 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.259 went out, essentially. In an attempt to, like, 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:54.359 revive myself, I threw myself, as you know this, 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:57.700 because that is how we met. I threw myself headfirst 00:22:57.700 --> 00:23:01.900 into local politics, right? Headfirst is probably 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:05.319 a very apt. description. You never do things 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:10.759 halfway. No, no, I do not. I just dive deeply, 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:14.079 deeply in because I figured, hey, you know, what's 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:15.599 the worst that could happen? And by the way, 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.980 a lot of never, never, never say that. But you 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:23.240 know what's funny? I do think that I say, what 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.279 is the worst that could happen? And then I go 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.210 through. the possibilities of the worst things 00:23:28.210 --> 00:23:30.730 that could happen. And if I am okay with those 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.640 things happening, then I will go full. in kind 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.579 of like with this podcast, to be honest, like 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:37.420 what is the worst thing that could happen with 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:40.220 this podcast if I'm OK with the consequences 00:23:40.220 --> 00:23:42.799 that I'm jumping full in? Look at us. We're doing 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.359 it. So I guess we're OK with whatever comes with 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.299 it, you know. But anyway, like I throw myself 00:23:47.299 --> 00:23:50.480 in local politics where I'm organizing campaigns 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.740 and I'm running for school board and we're fighting 00:23:53.740 --> 00:23:55.799 for the kids. Right. We're fighting a lot for 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.359 LGBTQ kids and brown kids and black kids. Right. 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:02.230 Like we are there and I'm suffering. relentless 00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:05.589 attacks on my character, on my very soul. But 00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:09.130 listen, as a woman, you know, I'm smiling. I'm 00:24:09.130 --> 00:24:11.410 taking pictures because I did what you're supposed 00:24:11.410 --> 00:24:13.869 to do when I'm campaigning, right? I brush it 00:24:13.869 --> 00:24:16.730 off. I move on. Especially during campaigning, 00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:19.569 right? You can't even, you can't even say. Especially 00:24:19.569 --> 00:24:22.849 during campaigning. Especially a woman campaigning. 00:24:22.869 --> 00:24:25.490 She can never be without a smile, right? Like 00:24:25.490 --> 00:24:27.789 that's what you have to do. It's not true for 00:24:27.789 --> 00:24:30.930 men, I think, in political office, clearly. Not 00:24:30.930 --> 00:24:33.670 yeah, not as much, not as much as it is for women, 00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:35.450 you know. So, yeah. So like because, you know, 00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:38.170 women are expected to be better. Like you're 00:24:38.170 --> 00:24:40.890 like a man could just be very mediocre in politics, 00:24:40.950 --> 00:24:42.670 but women is supposed to be like perfection, 00:24:42.849 --> 00:24:46.730 you know. And so, you know, I I am being attacked 00:24:46.730 --> 00:24:49.150 all the time. God forbid I decided to run for 00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:51.210 school board as a teacher, as a professional, 00:24:51.369 --> 00:24:54.769 you know, whatever. And I just kept smiling through 00:24:54.769 --> 00:24:57.029 all the attacks and said, don't let it get to 00:24:57.029 --> 00:24:59.849 you. And spoiler alert, it gets to you. It really, 00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:02.750 really fucking gets to you, you know. And listen, 00:25:02.849 --> 00:25:05.730 also spoiler alert, it didn't work. It did not 00:25:05.730 --> 00:25:11.130 revive me. I was not at all revived. And in fact, 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:13.950 I was now dead, but also bruised all over. So 00:25:13.950 --> 00:25:18.140 that was just, I mean. You know, I dealt with 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:20.099 the consequences. I knew what the worst that 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:22.339 could happen. And I wouldn't say the worst happened, 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.559 but a lot of bad things happened during that. 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:28.339 That is an understatement. I mean, like you said, 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:32.410 that's... When we met and like truly an insane 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:35.750 time, it was smack in the middle of the pandemic. 00:25:35.869 --> 00:25:39.849 And I feel like that moment totally, totally 00:25:39.849 --> 00:25:43.069 divested us of that little white lie of, you 00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:46.269 know, women can have it all. Right. Talk about 00:25:46.269 --> 00:25:48.509 that. And, you know, in my piece, like March 00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:50.769 2020, something happened, something inside of 00:25:50.769 --> 00:25:53.559 me collapsed loudly. and quietly all the same 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.079 time. I can't explain it now any more than I 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.779 could then, but it was really crushing. Like 00:25:58.779 --> 00:26:00.859 I said earlier, right? The light went out, fire 00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:04.420 extinguished. I gave my all and then there was 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:08.579 just truly nothing left to give. And, you know, 00:26:08.619 --> 00:26:12.759 being dead inside is kind of, you know, in that 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:16.680 way is... is strange because you still have to 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.660 live like i said earlier right you still have 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:21.420 to do living people things you have to go to 00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:24.099 work you have to raise your kids you show up 00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:25.819 where you're supposed to show up you're still 00:26:25.819 --> 00:26:29.579 a mom you know a friend a daughter like you wear 00:26:29.579 --> 00:26:32.420 all these other hats you know but the person 00:26:32.420 --> 00:26:35.880 who wants more me right the the curious one the 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.019 one that chases ideas and the one that feels 00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:41.839 wonder like that person is just just gone like 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.869 that person has been replaced by numbness and 00:26:45.869 --> 00:26:49.750 nothingness, just like a dredge foot. And a zombie. 00:26:49.809 --> 00:26:52.029 You said a zombie, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.869 Making the motions. You know, during the pandemic, 00:26:56.970 --> 00:27:01.450 women, I think, disproportionately had to keep 00:27:01.450 --> 00:27:05.069 life and family all together. Like this was what 00:27:05.069 --> 00:27:09.849 was passed to us. And I had, I have. had then 00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:13.349 a very supportive partner, but like that mental 00:27:13.349 --> 00:27:17.589 load just like fell on my head. I don't know 00:27:17.589 --> 00:27:21.069 what else to say other than that. You know, my 00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:23.849 kid needed speech and occupational therapy when 00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:25.829 the shutdown was happening. And I had to do that, 00:27:25.829 --> 00:27:28.849 too. I mean, I'm not not an educator. I think. 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.019 The pandemic was really, as you said, like it 00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:35.599 took it took that like veneer off. But for me, 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.819 actually, I like very clearly remember the moment 00:27:39.819 --> 00:27:44.980 the Dobbs decision happened, like from like a 00:27:44.980 --> 00:27:48.480 very deeply personal and life defining tragedy. 00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:52.220 that I can't really do justice in this conversation, 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.700 but I felt the regression of that moment. It 00:27:56.700 --> 00:28:00.140 like hit me. I really felt like I was underwater. 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.400 It is slightly in pain. It feels that felt then 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:09.259 not so much now, but felt then bizarre to try 00:28:09.259 --> 00:28:11.960 to explain to people that a Supreme court decision 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.779 has like, has like wrecked me. You know what 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:19.079 I mean? Like I can't. come to school you know 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:21.500 i can't do work today because i'm wrecked by 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:24.140 a supreme court decision that sounds yeah that 00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:27.619 sounds strange um but now now it doesn't now 00:28:27.619 --> 00:28:30.400 it doesn't feel it's not yeah it's not and i 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.359 think uh a lot of people probably feel that and 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:37.119 the thing is at that moment it it felt like that 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.079 collective weight of all those decisions are 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.250 going to be thrown on who women right? Like women 00:28:45.250 --> 00:28:48.410 are dying of sepsis during pregnancy, literally, 00:28:48.509 --> 00:28:52.529 literally dying. And this medical regression, 00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:57.109 it just, it haunts me because I think about all 00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.309 those aspects of my professional identity and, 00:29:00.309 --> 00:29:02.990 you know, looking at researching diseases that 00:29:02.990 --> 00:29:05.789 we could absolutely prevent in this day and age. 00:29:06.910 --> 00:29:12.259 It's on my mind. constantly, you know, as a doctor 00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:15.000 and as a woman. And maybe it's because peds and 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.980 obstetrics are just so heavily women dominated. 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:21.799 It just felt like a professional and personal 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.079 slap in the face. That's what that moment felt 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:27.039 like for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, we are 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:31.609 regressing. medically, politically. We're regressing 00:29:31.609 --> 00:29:34.789 in education. We're regressing culturally. Productive 00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:37.130 autonomy is being stripped away. Healthcare is 00:29:37.130 --> 00:29:39.990 politicized. Public health systems collapse. 00:29:40.089 --> 00:29:43.109 And what happens when that happens? Women, once 00:29:43.109 --> 00:29:45.650 again, carry the burden of caregiving, right? 00:29:45.809 --> 00:29:50.549 So the sadness we have already isn't just like 00:29:50.549 --> 00:29:52.670 personal sadness a lot of the times. It's the 00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:55.089 grief of realizing that the future you thought 00:29:55.089 --> 00:29:57.819 you were moving toward actually might not be 00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:02.000 coming. Like I really did think back before 2017 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:05.119 that we were like slowly making progress, you 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:09.259 know, and then the sadness of 2017 at all. And 00:30:09.259 --> 00:30:12.920 you're like, oh, shit, like progress is not happening. 00:30:13.579 --> 00:30:16.759 Yeah. And that's hard, right? Like you have this 00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:21.079 personal sadness and then it's like, boom, something 00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:25.309 collective happens that you really. understand. 00:30:25.470 --> 00:30:29.049 And I think that's the ugly underbelly of it 00:30:29.049 --> 00:30:31.869 all, right? Like you're supposed to be the selfless 00:30:31.869 --> 00:30:35.670 mom, the selfless woman in a society that really 00:30:35.670 --> 00:30:39.150 doesn't protect or care about women. And that 00:30:39.150 --> 00:30:44.230 is just a profoundly vulnerable place to be. 00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:47.410 Right. And then, you know, I'm constantly reminding 00:30:47.410 --> 00:30:50.789 myself, like, I am lucky. I am privileged, right? 00:30:50.890 --> 00:30:53.970 Other people have real problems. I should be 00:30:53.970 --> 00:30:56.329 grateful we should be grateful but at the same 00:30:56.329 --> 00:30:59.990 time like I wrote like being grateful or grateful 00:30:59.990 --> 00:31:03.089 and sad coexist there are no rules to feelings 00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:05.690 unless we create them which we often do we create 00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:07.549 rules for our feelings so we push the sadness 00:31:07.549 --> 00:31:10.670 down we shove it deep deep deep inside we cover 00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:13.250 it with band -aids right Band -Aids, girls nights, 00:31:13.529 --> 00:31:17.569 vacations, new clothes, good food, margarita 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:19.829 and taco nights, you know, like and we don't 00:31:19.829 --> 00:31:22.170 like it's all like, you know, Band -Aids. And 00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:24.970 we don't realize until it's too late that when 00:31:24.970 --> 00:31:27.569 we push enough sadness down for long enough, 00:31:27.769 --> 00:31:30.869 something inside of us eventually dies. And, 00:31:30.970 --> 00:31:33.430 you know, we are women. Women are professional 00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:36.190 maskers. And sometimes we mask our sadness so 00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:38.869 well that we even fool ourselves into believing 00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:41.660 that it is gone. But it doesn't disappear. It's 00:31:41.660 --> 00:31:44.619 not gone. It just sits there, you know, dormant, 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:48.779 gnawing at you. Yeah. Right. Like, I don't mean 00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:52.559 to say like it's like that. Well, yes, it is. 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.579 Yeah. You know, it's gnawing in like that. Oh, 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:01.099 that just like so that. thread post, it said, 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.819 there's a hopelessness that sort of has been 00:32:03.819 --> 00:32:06.599 buried in our backyard of our minds for years. 00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:09.779 And it feels like the dog just dug it up, so 00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:13.099 to speak. Like the women mourn constantly, you 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:15.160 know, like we're always in mourning of some sort. 00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.980 Like we're mourning our youth. We mourn our independence. 00:32:19.180 --> 00:32:22.019 The dreams we quietly let go for the sake of 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:24.579 whatever, whether it's career or family or both, 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:28.500 you know, we mourn the loss of the world around 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:31.960 us. And now, like, it feels like we're all mourning 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.119 in a way that also connects us, you know. Right, 00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.940 right. And because the world has just stopped, 00:32:39.019 --> 00:32:42.079 has stopped just asking for women to conceal 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.259 themselves. And it's now actively starting to 00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:49.289 take. things away. And I think what you're speaking 00:32:49.289 --> 00:32:53.630 to is this private sadness transforming into 00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:57.829 a collective grief because it really does feel 00:32:57.829 --> 00:33:00.750 like we're all screaming into the same void, 00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:05.269 right? And like, holy fuck, that void, it just 00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:09.789 feels so close. Like, just like, it's like right 00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:12.900 here. You know, it's just like breathing down 00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:16.039 your neck. Do you by any chance remember or did 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.859 you ever watch the movie Garden State? Yes. Yeah, 00:33:18.940 --> 00:33:20.799 yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have. Do you remember that 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.039 they would like, they stood, I just, when you 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.680 were saying this, I just remembered like they 00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:29.259 stood at the edge of this like abyss and just 00:33:29.259 --> 00:33:32.039 like screamed into it. Do you remember that? 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:35.039 I love that movie so much. It came out when I 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.599 was in college and I was like, wow, like, or 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.880 maybe like right after college, it felt so like. 00:33:39.309 --> 00:33:42.349 deeply personal yeah um but yeah like remember 00:33:42.349 --> 00:33:44.589 that right like they stood there and they screamed 00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:46.369 and like i literally want to do that sometimes 00:33:46.369 --> 00:33:49.589 i want to go find a big abyss you know and just 00:33:49.589 --> 00:33:52.509 scream into it because that feels that would 00:33:52.509 --> 00:33:54.269 feel good maybe we should do that this weekend 00:33:54.269 --> 00:33:58.470 do you want to go somewhere anyway so sorry to 00:33:58.470 --> 00:34:00.809 derail but You know, we're talking about all 00:34:00.809 --> 00:34:02.769 these feelings, right? You know, we're all in 00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:05.349 our feelings. But like, so what does all of this 00:34:05.349 --> 00:34:09.710 have to do with this queer hockey show about 00:34:09.710 --> 00:34:15.170 men? This queer hockey show about men. Wow. Yeah. 00:34:15.309 --> 00:34:18.409 Tell me, what does this have to do with a queer 00:34:18.409 --> 00:34:22.230 hockey show about men? Anusha, I'm glad you asked. 00:34:22.670 --> 00:34:26.989 I call it a resurrection. Okay. Apparently. All 00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:30.070 it took for me personally to resurrect me is 00:34:30.070 --> 00:34:35.369 a queer romance hockey show and only six episodes 00:34:35.369 --> 00:34:38.949 of it. Listen, it still makes me laugh because 00:34:38.949 --> 00:34:42.010 when I say this out loud. It sounds slightly 00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:45.869 unhinged. Yes. It sounds slightly unhinged. It 00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:48.409 sounds like. But I get you. Like, right. Like 00:34:48.409 --> 00:34:50.429 you get me and a lot of other women get me. I 00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:52.650 know that because I've talked about this on threads 00:34:52.650 --> 00:34:55.090 and in other mediums. But like, it does sound 00:34:55.090 --> 00:34:58.239 funny. But, you know, it really isn't just about 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.920 hockey, obviously, and nor is it just about the 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.619 romance. It's about recognition, right? It is 00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:07.199 about watching characters feel things with a 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.980 kind of urgency and honesty that many of us spent 00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:14.960 years training ourselves out of, right? Desire, 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:18.619 uneasiness, tenderness, longing, the whole messy 00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:21.949 spectrum of being human. Somewhere along the 00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:25.510 way, many of us, especially women, have learned 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:28.590 to dull those edges in order to survive our lives. 00:35:28.730 --> 00:35:32.010 We build walls and surround them with unapproachable 00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:35.320 exteriors. And because we've recognized we must 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.099 become efficient, we must be responsible, capable, 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:41.460 and the deep feelings that we have just interfere 00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:43.260 with all that. Like we're not allowed to like 00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:44.800 have all these deep feelings, right? Like we 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:48.119 need to be numb in order to function in the everyday. 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.719 Yet what heated rivalry did, as great art often 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:55.380 does, is bypass the part of my brain that has 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:58.300 been carefully managing and dismissing my feelings 00:35:58.300 --> 00:36:01.860 for years. It slipped past the armor. past the 00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:04.840 cold walls I've built. And it reminded me what 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.340 intensity feels like, what curiosity feels like. 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.079 It reminded me what it feels like to care about 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.940 something enough to pull it apart, to analyze 00:36:12.940 --> 00:36:15.300 it, to talk about it for hours with other people 00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:18.050 who felt it too, right? And like... That's what 00:36:18.050 --> 00:36:20.670 I used to do. Right. Like for me, that that's 00:36:20.670 --> 00:36:22.809 what came back first. Right. Like curiosity would 00:36:22.809 --> 00:36:25.989 define me as a teacher, a thinker, a person who 00:36:25.989 --> 00:36:28.750 chase ideas for the sheer joy of chasing them. 00:36:28.789 --> 00:36:30.510 Like that's part of the reason I love teaching 00:36:30.510 --> 00:36:32.469 is because I got to come to the classroom and 00:36:32.469 --> 00:36:34.630 take a book and like analyze it with the students 00:36:34.630 --> 00:36:37.650 and hear their perspective. And just it was so 00:36:37.650 --> 00:36:41.349 joyful back then. But it wasn't. like just curiosity, 00:36:41.690 --> 00:36:44.050 right? It was joy. Like I said, the kind of joy 00:36:44.050 --> 00:36:47.909 that I had forgotten existed or could exist in 00:36:47.909 --> 00:36:51.769 adulthood, right? The simple joy of watching 00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.710 two people fall in love. And when you have been 00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:58.469 numb for years, joy, especially this kind of 00:36:58.469 --> 00:37:01.789 radical joy, feels like a shock to the system, 00:37:01.929 --> 00:37:04.210 right? It's a defibrillator, heated rivalry. 00:37:05.019 --> 00:37:08.119 unlocked emotions I had buried somewhere along 00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:11.239 the way to protect myself in order to keep things 00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:14.360 manageable, as I said. So that's how it relates, 00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.760 Anusha. That's how it relates. This is like number 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.159 two or three medical analogies on this one episode. 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:24.559 I'm loving all of it. But I mean, seriously. 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:29.059 I did it for you. That's just a really powerful. 00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:32.659 I mean, that is really moving. I'm just like. 00:37:32.969 --> 00:37:35.769 Processing what you said, because for me, I think 00:37:35.769 --> 00:37:38.329 it does the thing that it does for Shane and 00:37:38.329 --> 00:37:42.869 Ilya. It bears witness to the loss they've been 00:37:42.869 --> 00:37:46.849 carrying, the loss we've been carrying. It doesn't 00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:50.389 fix it. It doesn't remove the stakes. They're 00:37:50.389 --> 00:37:54.730 all there. External factors in heated rivalry 00:37:54.730 --> 00:37:58.829 are still there at the end of episode six. Nothing, 00:37:58.829 --> 00:38:02.460 I shouldn't say nothing has changed. one thing 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:05.420 has changed. And that one thing is still a personal 00:38:05.420 --> 00:38:08.579 story. It's Scott. The systems haven't changed. 00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.260 Someone is confronting the system. I'm getting 00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:13.780 goosebumps thinking of that. But, you know, but 00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:18.360 it still exists. The stakes exist. The loss exists. 00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:22.760 At the same time, this beautiful love story is 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:24.900 like unfolding in front of us, right? And it, 00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:31.190 for me, struck this really deep chord. I call 00:38:31.190 --> 00:38:34.050 it like a fundamental ache because your words 00:38:34.050 --> 00:38:36.389 were so beautiful. You talked about radical joy 00:38:36.389 --> 00:38:39.789 and resuscitation. And I'm like, what is the 00:38:39.789 --> 00:38:42.989 word for it? And maybe there's a Russian word 00:38:42.989 --> 00:38:45.449 for it. I look for a Tamil word for it. I couldn't 00:38:45.449 --> 00:38:47.309 find it. You know, like there's some words that 00:38:47.309 --> 00:38:50.710 just don't translate. Right. Yes. A lot of those. 00:38:50.909 --> 00:38:54.329 Yeah. Yeah. I bet you there's a German word for 00:38:54.329 --> 00:38:56.329 it because there's a German word for any of these 00:38:56.329 --> 00:39:01.059 things. That's my husband. I call it a fundamental 00:39:01.059 --> 00:39:06.619 ache because I don't think the sadness or joy 00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:10.119 can be separated from each other. I was thinking 00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:14.079 of things that evoked it for me. I'm thinking 00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.119 of my little girl, you know, telling me how she 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.719 wants to be an astronaut. And I'm wondering, 00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.780 you know, like what her future is going to look 00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:28.380 like. And I'm encouraging her to go for her dreams 00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:31.039 because, of course, that's what moms do. Of course. 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:36.820 Yeah. And then I thought of another. another 00:39:36.820 --> 00:39:39.780 kind of like memory, because there's a song that 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:44.079 I listened to in Tamil, my other language. And 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:47.559 it's like, it's the idea of it is it's, you're 00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.380 remembering your mom sing you a lullaby when 00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:53.579 you were a baby and you were sleeping on her 00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:56.869 lap, but you're remembering it as an adult. Like, 00:39:56.869 --> 00:40:01.010 that's the feeling, right? That's the feeling. 00:40:01.110 --> 00:40:04.690 It's that the joy is right next to the sadness. 00:40:04.710 --> 00:40:07.869 And it's just so layered and complicated. And 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:11.829 the feeling wouldn't be the same if those didn't 00:40:11.829 --> 00:40:15.309 exist so close to each other. And when I read 00:40:15.309 --> 00:40:20.130 that post, I read all of the comments on that. 00:40:20.210 --> 00:40:26.400 And so many of them. also gave examples about 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:32.579 it. And it's really the same feeling from different 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:36.579 places. So one person said the show wants her 00:40:36.579 --> 00:40:42.320 to feel hopeful, but wanting that feels unbearable 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:46.420 because feeling hopeful seems unreasonable. I 00:40:46.420 --> 00:40:50.059 was like, wow. That's so true, especially right 00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:54.650 now. Right, right. That's the ache. Another person 00:40:54.650 --> 00:40:58.130 said she experienced a deep depression after 00:40:58.130 --> 00:41:01.690 the initial high, and it felt like all the loneliness 00:41:01.690 --> 00:41:04.809 and expectations of the world were flooding in. 00:41:05.309 --> 00:41:09.489 Another said that she holds her, this is beautiful 00:41:09.489 --> 00:41:14.789 too, nuclear winter rage alongside the small 00:41:14.789 --> 00:41:17.949 uncertain happiness. I mean, these are just beautiful 00:41:17.949 --> 00:41:21.150 words, right? so beautiful. And we could feel 00:41:21.150 --> 00:41:23.809 them all. Yes, we can feel them all. And they're 00:41:23.809 --> 00:41:28.489 not exactly the same feeling. There's their versions, 00:41:28.550 --> 00:41:32.809 I think, of the same thing that has been buried 00:41:32.809 --> 00:41:37.110 and suppressed for so long. The show dug it up 00:41:37.110 --> 00:41:40.409 like a dog. dug up a bone in the backyard and 00:41:40.409 --> 00:41:44.230 it's out and now it's complicated and it hurts 00:41:44.230 --> 00:41:49.170 in that way. Rewarming like something dead inside 00:41:49.170 --> 00:41:52.710 of you. It hurts because all of it, the blood 00:41:52.710 --> 00:41:55.469 flow is just like all coming back. I know what 00:41:55.469 --> 00:41:57.929 you want to say right now. I know the word on 00:41:57.929 --> 00:42:00.809 the tip of your tongue. Just say it. Just say, 00:42:00.809 --> 00:42:04.650 say it. Like. Like trench foot. I saw it in your 00:42:04.650 --> 00:42:07.409 eyes. It cracks something open for many, many, 00:42:07.469 --> 00:42:09.989 many of us. And that is what's so strange and 00:42:09.989 --> 00:42:13.110 beautiful about art. You don't know. You don't 00:42:13.110 --> 00:42:15.349 always know how it will reach you, what will 00:42:15.349 --> 00:42:18.170 reach you or when. Sometimes it's a novel. Sometimes 00:42:18.170 --> 00:42:20.530 it's a song, a line of dialogue that lands in 00:42:20.530 --> 00:42:22.730 exactly the place you forgot you existed. And 00:42:22.730 --> 00:42:25.449 sometimes, apparently, again, a queer hockey 00:42:25.449 --> 00:42:28.599 romance that moves you so, so deeply. pulls you 00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:30.659 out of the hole that you've been in, that you've 00:42:30.659 --> 00:42:32.400 dug yourself in, that you've buried yourself 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:35.460 in and reminds you that curiosity and joy and 00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:38.639 wonder weren't gone forever, that they were still 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:41.260 there. It's just they were like all waiting to 00:42:41.260 --> 00:42:44.079 come alive with something, something, you know, 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:46.579 that that revived all of that. And, you know, 00:42:46.579 --> 00:42:49.659 it was for me personally. Right. It was heated 00:42:49.659 --> 00:42:53.619 rivalry. I am getting. oddly teary right now 00:42:53.619 --> 00:42:56.059 i don't know why i could see it i could see your 00:42:56.059 --> 00:43:02.279 face because it's it's it's you know ate me It's 00:43:02.279 --> 00:43:05.159 achy and it's and it's and it's hard to explain. 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:07.559 Like people have tried many, many times. You 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:09.320 know, women have tried to write about this and 00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.880 everyone has, you know, and it's just it's really 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:14.280 difficult to explain exactly which part of us. 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.179 And because probably because it's a little bit 00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:17.800 different for everyone, like you said, you know, 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:19.559 like a little bit different for you. It's different 00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:21.699 for me. Right. Like we both love the show so 00:43:21.699 --> 00:43:24.599 much, but we do get like different feelings from 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.179 it, you know, different, but the same. And I 00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:30.039 think for women. you know, this idea that we're 00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:34.159 in our feelings is usually a very dismissive 00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.679 comment, right? Like our emotional responses 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:41.480 are excessive, irrational, hysterical, all of 00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:43.699 those things. Well, they're treated as such. 00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:45.860 They're treated that way. They're treated as 00:43:45.860 --> 00:43:50.440 such, yes. But you know what? Yeah, we're all, 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.500 women as a collective and these two women, we're 00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:56.159 in our feelings right now because our feelings 00:43:56.159 --> 00:44:00.750 are actually... They are the appropriate response 00:44:00.750 --> 00:44:05.329 when you're carrying a world that seeks to crush 00:44:05.329 --> 00:44:10.769 you for years in concealment at high stakes. 00:44:10.929 --> 00:44:14.409 We can feel the pain and joy of Shane and Ilya 00:44:14.409 --> 00:44:18.889 choosing each other. Because we understand what 00:44:18.889 --> 00:44:22.230 that costs them. And we understand that in a 00:44:22.230 --> 00:44:26.989 fundamental way. So for me, heated rivalry isn't 00:44:26.989 --> 00:44:31.090 just joy as an antidote to grief. It's gave us 00:44:31.090 --> 00:44:34.510 a place where the grief and the joy could finally 00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:40.590 be in the same room. And I think after years 00:44:40.590 --> 00:44:44.670 of keeping those things impossibly separated. 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:48.699 in our minds, my mind, I think that's actually 00:44:48.699 --> 00:44:51.019 what I needed. I think that's what a lot of us 00:44:51.019 --> 00:44:54.579 needed because it's very clear the response to 00:44:54.579 --> 00:44:57.599 the show has been that we all needed something 00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.239 like this. And now it's finally been given to 00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:05.699 us. Yeah. Okay, Anusha. We are definitely in 00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:08.539 our feelings. And I think women need to talk 00:45:08.539 --> 00:45:10.300 more about their feelings and being in their 00:45:10.300 --> 00:45:12.739 feelings and normalize everything that we feel 00:45:12.739 --> 00:45:15.269 all the time. I know it's time for our moment 00:45:15.269 --> 00:45:17.969 of sunshine. And I actually want to dedicate 00:45:17.969 --> 00:45:22.329 my moment of sunshine to a listener who sent 00:45:22.329 --> 00:45:25.969 me her story. And I want to read it, if you don't 00:45:25.969 --> 00:45:28.010 mind. This woman sent me a private message and 00:45:28.010 --> 00:45:30.610 she did give me permission, obviously, to share 00:45:30.610 --> 00:45:32.489 this. And she said it's been really interesting 00:45:32.489 --> 00:45:34.550 for her and her wife because this was a similar 00:45:34.550 --> 00:45:37.170 start to our relationship around the same time. 00:45:37.289 --> 00:45:39.630 She says we weren't rivals or anything, but until 00:45:39.630 --> 00:45:43.590 2010, 2015 -ish. being out was just a whole different 00:45:43.590 --> 00:45:46.110 experience. The term situationships didn't really 00:45:46.110 --> 00:45:48.090 even exist at the time when we got together in 00:45:48.090 --> 00:45:50.670 2007, but that's exactly what it was. Neither 00:45:50.670 --> 00:45:53.449 of us were totally honest about our sexualities, 00:45:53.489 --> 00:45:58.889 much less out. We secretly dated under the guise 00:45:58.889 --> 00:46:01.050 of being best friends for five years before we 00:46:01.050 --> 00:46:03.289 started slowly letting people know. And even 00:46:03.289 --> 00:46:06.349 then, we didn't even admit how long we've been 00:46:06.349 --> 00:46:08.630 together for another few years after that. We 00:46:08.630 --> 00:46:12.260 pretended like our feelings were new. She says, 00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.840 I identified with Shane's complicated plan for 00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:17.199 charity to lead to a friendship, to lead to a 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.260 relationship so much because after five years 00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:21.820 or so, I laid out the groundwork with my close 00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:24.139 friends and family of like, I think I might be 00:46:24.139 --> 00:46:26.579 in love with her or I think this might be more 00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:29.559 than a friendship or I can see a future here. 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.960 Literally years later, when we got married, I 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.099 think we started being honest about just how 00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:37.940 long we've been together. And it's still hard 00:46:37.940 --> 00:46:40.840 to explain to people why we were so secretive. 00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:43.800 for so long. This is one of the first times, 00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:46.880 she says, I've seen myself and my relationship 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:50.199 represented in media in such a loving and caring 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:54.119 way that focus on the ultimate joy to be found 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.780 rather than all the bad that could and frequently 00:46:56.780 --> 00:47:00.019 does happen. That's amazing. That's a beautiful 00:47:00.019 --> 00:47:03.199 share. I know. What about you? What is your moment? 00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:06.099 Did you go read to a thousand cats again? No, 00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.400 I didn't double the cats. I actually want to 00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:13.559 dedicate. my moment of sunshine to the fandom. 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:19.519 In general, we opened with this song by Elisa, 00:47:19.579 --> 00:47:23.719 and the entire premise of our episode was on 00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:29.260 someone's really beautifully worded, metaphoric 00:47:29.260 --> 00:47:33.159 thread with the most beautiful responses, all 00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:36.750 of which was trying to capture this feeling we 00:47:36.750 --> 00:47:39.909 were collectively having. I mean, so this is 00:47:39.909 --> 00:47:44.329 to the creators and the creatives and all the 00:47:44.329 --> 00:47:50.170 people in the fandom who are sharing what their 00:47:50.170 --> 00:47:53.170 feelings are. And I love that. Yeah, it's so 00:47:53.170 --> 00:47:56.869 much joy to have listeners and just people on 00:47:56.869 --> 00:47:59.170 threads, like constantly engaging and constantly 00:47:59.170 --> 00:48:02.090 creating and just like keeping us entertained, 00:48:02.429 --> 00:48:07.489 you know? It's like, I would say, like medicine, 00:48:07.650 --> 00:48:13.809 perhaps. Like medicine. Like medicine. So Anusha 00:48:13.809 --> 00:48:18.090 and I have a really busy time coming up, especially 00:48:18.090 --> 00:48:21.190 for Anusha. So we are going to take a break for 00:48:21.190 --> 00:48:24.510 a week. We will not have a new episode. Just 00:48:24.510 --> 00:48:26.610 one week. We're not going to have a new episode 00:48:26.610 --> 00:48:29.889 next week on the 23rd. And instead, we will see 00:48:29.889 --> 00:48:34.059 you all on the 30th. So subscribe now. you get 00:48:34.059 --> 00:48:35.820 your podcasts and if you want to say hi to the 00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:38.400 girls in the crease find us on instagram facebook 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.420 and threads at everyone deserves sunshine or 00:48:41.420 --> 00:48:44.420 email us at everyone deserves sunshine at gmail 00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:47.980 .com new episodes drop mondays but not next monday 00:48:47.980 --> 00:48:49.619 the 30th see you then