WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.439 Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine. I'm Diana. 00:00:02.660 --> 00:00:04.879 And I'm Anusha. We're the Girls in the Crease 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.939 and you are on Episode 7. queer representation. 00:00:09.500 --> 00:00:12.619 So throughout this podcast, Anusha and I have 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.199 analyzed heated rivalry from many different angles 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:18.460 like intimacy, masculinity, neurodivergence, 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.739 we had a music episode, we talked about like 00:00:20.739 --> 00:00:23.539 private versus public life, and so on. We're 00:00:23.539 --> 00:00:26.239 also very aware that we're two women analyzing 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.839 a love story about two men falling for each other. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.520 And while we hope that we're approaching it with 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:36.079 care and intention, we know that's a layer of 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:38.820 experience that we don't have because we are 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:42.539 in fact not queer men. Yes. So because of that, 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:45.659 we invited someone whose perspective we genuinely 00:00:45.659 --> 00:00:48.399 respect and want to hear, not to speak for all 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.380 gay and queer men, but to share his experience 00:00:51.380 --> 00:00:53.840 of watching the show and like what resonated 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.759 and what maybe didn't. I'm so excited to talk 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:58.219 to Mason today. Me too. All right, let's get 00:00:58.219 --> 00:01:00.759 into it. Welcome, Mason. Welcome to the show. 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.700 And thank you so much for joining us today. We're 00:01:03.700 --> 00:01:07.760 so interested and curious, curious to hear your 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.140 thoughts about heated rivalry. you know, what 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:14.280 felt true to you, what maybe a straight audience 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.819 may not fully comprehend. First things first, 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.260 I just met you moments ago. I'm already completely 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:26.200 charmed by you. Oh, shucks. Tell us how you met 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:30.079 Diana. Yeah. So funny enough, what was her name? 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.739 I forget. Someone at work. Someone you work with, 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.900 I think. Yeah. Yeah. I told them that I was going 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:39.730 to this. Yeah, work colleague. I told them that 00:01:39.730 --> 00:01:42.230 I was going to the heated rivalry rave in Philly. 00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:46.349 And this was something really unique for me because 00:01:46.349 --> 00:01:48.730 I don't really go out that much anymore. So I 00:01:48.730 --> 00:01:50.569 was expressing how excited I was. And they were 00:01:50.569 --> 00:01:54.269 like, wait, my best friend is going to be there 00:01:54.269 --> 00:01:57.049 as well. And I went, all right, cool. We're going 00:01:57.049 --> 00:02:00.549 to be best friends then. And I show up in the 00:02:00.549 --> 00:02:03.409 cold in Philly. We check our coats and all of 00:02:03.409 --> 00:02:06.230 a sudden I hear, wait, Mason. And I turn around 00:02:06.230 --> 00:02:09.780 and I see her. And it was like the scene where 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:12.560 we see each other from across the bar. And I 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:14.060 was like, oh, my God. That's exactly what happened. 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:19.080 Which was. Less raging jealousy. Oh, 100%. 100 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:21.979 % joy. I was a little jealous. I was a little 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:25.039 jealous to see Mason with his friend. But that's 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.960 how we got to meet. And I'm very happy that my 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.560 friend got to introduce me to my best friend 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.280 now. Mason, when you first watched Heated Bible 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.599 Read, like. What was your immediate response, 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:37.699 reaction, anything? Tell us what you want to 00:02:37.699 --> 00:02:39.800 talk about. And also, we need your origin story 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:42.780 of how you got into it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:44.659 We ask everyone the origin story. That's true. 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.259 Yeah, okay. So my heated rivalry origin story. 00:02:48.500 --> 00:02:51.639 So my friend that I went to the rave with, we 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:54.699 were having a girls' night maybe like six, eight 00:02:54.699 --> 00:02:57.460 months ago. And our girls' night is going to 00:02:57.460 --> 00:03:01.120 Barnes & Noble. So our ritual is I will pick 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:05.379 her up. We will drive to McDonald's, get ourselves 00:03:05.379 --> 00:03:07.939 a fountain beverage. So I'm not a big book reader. 00:03:08.099 --> 00:03:10.900 I love manga. I love anime. So that's the section 00:03:10.900 --> 00:03:14.460 I will usually go to. But my friend Chelsea loves 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:20.759 romance books and loves hockey. And she was looking 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:25.180 at a hockey romance. And I didn't know what it 00:03:25.180 --> 00:03:27.379 was at the time. And I was like, oh, that looks 00:03:27.379 --> 00:03:30.020 kind of cool because like I I grew up watching 00:03:30.020 --> 00:03:33.520 hockey. My mom was a huge Ron Hextall fan from 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.620 the Flyers. I had an Eric Lindros jersey growing 00:03:36.620 --> 00:03:39.199 up like a little as a little baby. So I was like, 00:03:39.219 --> 00:03:41.719 oh, I like hockey and I'm kind of getting into 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:44.979 romance. And then fast forward, I'm like scrolling 00:03:44.979 --> 00:03:47.900 on TikTok and I see all these like fan edits 00:03:47.900 --> 00:03:52.120 of these hot men. And I'm like, what is this? 00:03:52.460 --> 00:03:55.460 I want to know what this is. And I text my friend 00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:57.020 about it. And she's like, it's heated rivalry. 00:03:57.620 --> 00:04:00.020 Have you watched it yet? And I was like, wait, 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.159 no. OK, hold up. What's it on? HBO. I was like, 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.759 oh, I got rid of HBO. I guess I'm going to download 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.939 it again and spend money. I love spending money. 00:04:09.819 --> 00:04:13.120 But so I binged it because at this point. every 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.900 it had aired completely once it finished i was 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:17.660 left with that void of when you finish something 00:04:17.660 --> 00:04:19.759 and you know it's complete and you don't know 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:21.339 what to do with yourself so you just immerse 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:23.779 yourself completely into it i bought all the 00:04:23.779 --> 00:04:26.959 books i found out i love smut and romance and 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.660 it's just beautiful welcome welcome to my world 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:34.160 i got immediately immersed into the story and 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:38.720 also like growing up in the 2010s like so i graduated 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.920 high school 2013 And part of my coming out story 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.699 revolved in 2013. Like a lot of this hit home 00:04:46.699 --> 00:04:50.779 to me. If I had this when I was growing up and 00:04:50.779 --> 00:04:54.560 my little closeted white gay boy in high school, 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:58.379 because the closest I had was Glee. And Glee 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:02.399 was very like comedic, but it was also like it 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.589 would not. It would not fly in today's day and 00:05:04.589 --> 00:05:07.430 age. I rewatch it as a comfort show for the comedy 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.750 of it. Sue Sylvester is one of my favorite characters 00:05:09.750 --> 00:05:12.009 of all time, even though she is incredibly problematic. 00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:18.129 But it was nice seeing romance, especially modern 00:05:18.129 --> 00:05:22.050 romance, like that wasn't so dire and dark. And 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:23.810 I know like probably a lot of people say that, 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:27.310 but like the queer characters that I would watch 00:05:27.310 --> 00:05:31.779 were always like. a plot point or killed off 00:05:31.779 --> 00:05:35.139 or like the butt of a joke so i've been happy 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:37.160 and one of the first characters i think i saw 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.660 it was in happy endings the comedy show and it 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:43.540 was this man played by a straight guy that was 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:46.139 the butt of the joke was the comedic relief then 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:47.740 there's like characters that you would fall in 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:51.470 love with uh do you any y 'all sci -fi people 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:54.029 bowser galactica is my hyper fixation show love 00:05:54.029 --> 00:05:57.550 it dearly um but like one of the characters in 00:05:57.550 --> 00:05:59.970 there is queer but the only reason you would 00:05:59.970 --> 00:06:04.850 know is if you watched a web series add -on that 00:06:04.850 --> 00:06:07.550 wasn't a part of the actual airing, those characters 00:06:07.550 --> 00:06:10.790 are usually so beloved and they use it to be 00:06:10.790 --> 00:06:13.370 that shock factor. And it also makes you wonder, 00:06:13.430 --> 00:06:16.529 like, what about them makes them so loved? People 00:06:16.529 --> 00:06:18.990 love these characters having these really nice 00:06:18.990 --> 00:06:21.550 moments and also so real moments because there 00:06:21.550 --> 00:06:23.970 is a bit of heartache and a little bit of turmoil 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:26.529 that happens in the series that resolves very 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:29.810 humanly, I would say. It's not just like shock 00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:32.899 for the sake of shock. And one of the big things 00:06:32.899 --> 00:06:35.920 like Scott Hunter and Kip's whole romance, like 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.000 Kip is going through a lot. He's giving up his 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.040 friends. He's giving up his family to be with 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:45.680 Scott and Scott's like, but my career. And it's 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.319 interesting seeing it as a fear of coming out 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.220 because of the career versus the fear of coming 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:53.139 out because like I might get hurt. I might get 00:06:53.139 --> 00:06:56.680 victimized in some way. And a lot of queer folks 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.850 do upon coming out. Um, I always thought that 00:07:00.850 --> 00:07:03.949 was so interesting because this story, like they're 00:07:03.949 --> 00:07:07.949 really rich hockey players that have a really 00:07:07.949 --> 00:07:10.750 nice cottage and a really nice condo. So there's 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:12.850 like that little bit of escapism that we get 00:07:12.850 --> 00:07:15.209 like being like, oh, what if I could afford like 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:16.990 a really nice condo and this really nice romance? 00:07:17.509 --> 00:07:19.829 There's like a lot of stuff that like I'm watching 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:21.949 it and I see myself and then I'm like, oh, this 00:07:21.949 --> 00:07:23.569 is still a little bit out of my reach because 00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:26.860 I'm not going to these galas that are. like suit 00:07:26.860 --> 00:07:30.819 and tie with really really important people in 00:07:30.819 --> 00:07:33.839 there um so it's like it was nice seeing the 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.319 escapism part of it where i'm like i'm walking 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.079 out of my life and like just like observing something 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.139 completely different but then seeing those moments 00:07:41.139 --> 00:07:44.079 where it's like i felt that before I've done 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:45.839 that before because I'm not a perfect human. 00:07:45.939 --> 00:07:48.079 I have done a lot of work on myself. There's 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.439 there's points where I was a Scott Hunter and 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:53.339 putting like a lot of hardship onto my partner. 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:57.180 And I'm lucky to have my partner who is a behavioral 00:07:57.180 --> 00:08:00.100 technician who also helps me unpack a lot of 00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:03.180 the things because growing up, I was very I almost 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:04.899 would classify myself as emotionless in a lot 00:08:04.899 --> 00:08:09.769 of ways. And he. feels emotions so deeply. He 00:08:09.769 --> 00:08:12.089 actually taught me how to experience emotions 00:08:12.089 --> 00:08:14.810 in a way. And one of the other things that shocked 00:08:14.810 --> 00:08:19.230 me about this show is how great support systems 00:08:19.230 --> 00:08:22.370 all the characters had. Like one of the big things 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:25.430 in my queer identity and that was a big thing 00:08:25.430 --> 00:08:28.569 for me is finding my found family and the people 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:34.139 that I can trust with anything. and like all 00:08:34.139 --> 00:08:37.399 the friends were so good about keeping secrets 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:42.279 and being like ride or dies kip's friend elena 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:46.919 ride or die amazing person looking out for kip 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:51.460 shane having rose rose could have like been like 00:08:51.460 --> 00:08:53.539 oh my gosh this is the last time i want to be 00:08:53.539 --> 00:08:56.779 a beard for somebody but instead allowed shane 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:01.720 to like speak to his life and allow him that 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.639 moment to say sometimes i like kind of like being 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.120 the hole for the peg and ilia did have that lana 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.559 and like the support systems that they had were 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:17.059 so strong where there was so many points where 00:09:17.059 --> 00:09:20.399 all of this story could have went wrong because 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.629 a secret gets out because a lot of folks love 00:09:24.629 --> 00:09:28.970 to gossip and their people didn't. And I thought 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:33.009 that was so refreshing, so important because 00:09:33.009 --> 00:09:35.909 in queer culture, finding your found family is 00:09:35.909 --> 00:09:38.289 so important. And the fact that all these characters 00:09:38.289 --> 00:09:41.909 had that in a regard, I thought was amazing to 00:09:41.909 --> 00:09:44.210 see. You know, actually, I have a question about 00:09:44.210 --> 00:09:47.409 that because you're right. They do have that, 00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:51.090 but what they don't have is like any sort of 00:09:51.090 --> 00:09:54.759 connection to. a queer community. So I was just 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:58.259 wondering how that hit you. Did you feel an ache 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.039 for them, like a sense of loneliness despite 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.120 the fact that they had all these ride or dies 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.080 that they haven't connected with that like more 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.200 extensive found family? All of those people that 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.100 you mentioned who taught you about queer culture 00:10:12.100 --> 00:10:14.279 and queer history. Yeah, they don't have that, 00:10:14.299 --> 00:10:15.879 right, is what you're saying. Yeah, they don't 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:17.500 have any of that. Yeah, they're like navigating 00:10:17.500 --> 00:10:20.679 that all on their own. Yeah. And there's also 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:22.539 like the thought of like, is it something that 00:10:22.539 --> 00:10:25.000 they'd be interested in? Because there's also 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.559 the idea that like, is my sexuality my whole 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.340 identity? Is it something that I want to learn 00:10:31.340 --> 00:10:34.379 the history about versus this is the person that 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:37.779 I love and I just want to figure out how to maintain 00:10:37.779 --> 00:10:40.200 this with the most amount of safety as possible? 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:43.539 Because it is so true. Scott Hunter did come 00:10:43.539 --> 00:10:46.460 out, paved the way for them, even though they're 00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:50.700 not out yet. They showed nothing about like in 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:53.740 the TV series, at least the aftermath of it of 00:10:53.740 --> 00:10:57.379 because we know and at least the United States, 00:10:57.500 --> 00:11:00.700 every action has an equal and opposite reaction, 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:03.980 especially in the news. And so there's also going 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:07.220 to be that negative kind of like and just how. 00:11:08.029 --> 00:11:11.210 how like horrific and taxing it is on an individual 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:15.029 and like how pointed the words get like the F 00:11:15.029 --> 00:11:18.750 slur and even with how common it is still to 00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:23.330 this day. But yeah, I'd be curious if they go 00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:26.169 into that in the next series or if they're even 00:11:26.169 --> 00:11:29.029 interested in that, because I think like the 00:11:29.029 --> 00:11:31.210 genesis of them finding this out on their own 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:34.129 is their love for each other. Like, I think it's 00:11:34.129 --> 00:11:37.860 less about. wanting to know about being and this 00:11:37.860 --> 00:11:40.000 me reading into them it's like it's less about 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.779 being gay but more about being just so enamored 00:11:44.779 --> 00:11:47.120 and in love with each other I sometimes wonder 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:50.639 because everything in the direction feels like 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.539 a choice to me when the world is in crisis or 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:57.779 I am feeling like all the existential dread sometimes 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:01.620 I like I call it making my world small and I 00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:05.049 like just try to like focus on this thing in 00:12:05.049 --> 00:12:08.409 front of me, usually my children. I'm wondering 00:12:08.409 --> 00:12:10.990 now that you're saying, is that a choice to make 00:12:10.990 --> 00:12:15.429 this thing that's so big come to like sort of 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:19.669 a micro level of like humanness? And you're instead 00:12:19.669 --> 00:12:22.830 of looking at the macrocosm of where these characters 00:12:22.830 --> 00:12:26.169 exist in, you know, this community or that or 00:12:26.169 --> 00:12:29.110 immigrant community or neurodivergence, they're 00:12:29.110 --> 00:12:32.519 just like bringing it to the like small. I don't 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:34.159 know. Maybe it is a choice. Like literally their 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.179 relationship. Like that's it. That's all that 00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:39.919 matters. Yeah. And everything else you extrapolate. 00:12:39.940 --> 00:12:44.340 Like you see Kip and, you know, Scott, like you 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.320 see the external forces that push them apart 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:50.200 without slammed over our head. Like you can be 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:52.139 have this very personal story and still really 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.059 understand that. Why did they split up? We know 00:12:55.059 --> 00:12:56.759 why they split up. It's not because they're not 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.809 in love with each other. Why is Shane so deeply 00:13:00.809 --> 00:13:03.830 in the closet? All of these giant existential 00:13:03.830 --> 00:13:06.490 questions are still like hanging around the air. 00:13:06.610 --> 00:13:09.129 So I wonder if it was a choice. I think it's 00:13:09.129 --> 00:13:11.649 a brilliant choice in the right hands because 00:13:11.649 --> 00:13:15.529 it still allows for nuance. Yeah, it's like the 00:13:15.529 --> 00:13:18.110 human moment. And that's what makes it so accessible 00:13:18.110 --> 00:13:20.409 to people because a lot of folks have that experience 00:13:20.409 --> 00:13:23.970 of falling in love for someone or with someone. 00:13:24.190 --> 00:13:26.779 I think like that human moment. allows you to 00:13:26.779 --> 00:13:31.639 connect to it versus the idea of gay people and 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.919 whatnot. It's like I'm connected to the characters, 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:37.460 not necessarily just the sexuality of it. That 00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:40.279 came, at least with me, later on because I felt, 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:43.919 I was like, maybe I just love awkwardness. That 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.100 awkward exchange in the very first scene, I was 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:49.879 like, I think I'm going to love this. This character 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.820 is so weird. There's so much layers to it because 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:55.759 the author came out and said, oh, yeah, I didn't 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.370 explicitly say it, but. Shane is neurodivergent. 00:13:59.629 --> 00:14:02.029 And so there's like little things that you pick 00:14:02.029 --> 00:14:04.629 up on of, oh, well, like what I said was weird, 00:14:04.690 --> 00:14:05.950 which probably shouldn't just be called weird. 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:08.629 It's just because it's not typical of a neurotypical 00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:11.950 person. I like people with character. Cookie 00:14:11.950 --> 00:14:14.549 cutter ain't for me. Yeah. Then they give them 00:14:14.549 --> 00:14:16.789 a lot of character, a lot of depth, a lot of 00:14:16.789 --> 00:14:18.950 complexity. And that's why I think we're partly 00:14:18.950 --> 00:14:21.529 why we're so obsessed with them as people and 00:14:21.529 --> 00:14:24.110 to like analyze every single thing that they 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:27.269 do. What was one of those scenes for you, like 00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:29.789 those pivotal scenes where you like felt like 00:14:29.789 --> 00:14:32.850 you saw yourself or saw elements of your life 00:14:32.850 --> 00:14:35.629 reflected back at you? One of the most touching 00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:40.149 ones that sits rent free in my head is when they're 00:14:40.149 --> 00:14:43.509 on the couch in the cottage and like their feet 00:14:43.509 --> 00:14:45.669 are touching, but they're on opposite sides. 00:14:46.470 --> 00:14:50.029 And like when you think about like modern romance 00:14:50.029 --> 00:14:52.549 and whatnot, it's like. We have these phones 00:14:52.549 --> 00:14:57.309 and we're tied to them like glue. And the idea 00:14:57.309 --> 00:14:59.690 that you could be doing something on the couch 00:14:59.690 --> 00:15:03.769 together, but you're still together and just 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:05.809 like touching feet. Like it's something small, 00:15:05.990 --> 00:15:09.169 something so tiny, but something that happens 00:15:09.169 --> 00:15:13.370 in this house every single day. And to see two 00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:18.129 men doing that was just like, wow, wait, like 00:15:18.129 --> 00:15:21.840 I'm so used to like. heteronormative romance 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.440 and seeing it on the screen so it was that's 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.220 just something that lives rent -free in my head 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:32.899 also like when uh when hollander and shane first 00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:37.299 the first time that he had sex with ilia and 00:15:37.299 --> 00:15:40.240 it wasn't perfect like there was a little bit 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.379 of awkwardness to it and one that being so real 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:47.399 um like sometimes the most fun sex is like the 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:49.840 awkward sex where you start laughing And like 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.620 things just happen. And it's just like that connection, 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.500 that romance, which this show does so well in 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:58.879 ways that also are about consent, because especially 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.240 not in the queer community at large, in a lot 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.379 of the followings that I've been a part of and 00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:07.980 grow up with, sex is like critical to even like 00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:11.919 friendships. And a lot of times consent people 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.440 think is implied when it is not. And so just 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.759 like some of those moments where you might ask 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.279 a question and it just like start starts a laughter. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.759 I just thought like, oh, my God, like things 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.480 don't happen perfectly. And the show showed that 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:28.000 super well. One of the things the show did not 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.000 show, which is I'm just like, oh, my gosh, I 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.320 hope people like people that aren't gay will. 00:16:34.809 --> 00:16:37.070 hopefully take away of hearing this is after 00:16:37.070 --> 00:16:40.929 a hockey game, like bottoming, not likely to 00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:44.970 happen. Like you got preparation. Oh, OK. You 00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:47.350 got preparation. You got it. You have to change 00:16:47.350 --> 00:16:50.690 your diet a day in advance. You got to clean 00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:53.509 yourself out. It's a whole ordeal. It's like 00:16:53.509 --> 00:16:56.309 it's like hours in preparation just for a moment. 00:16:56.350 --> 00:16:59.230 I was like, I hope people don't think that gay 00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:01.289 people just have sex willy nilly like that. Like 00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:03.159 sometimes it's planned. Like, and you got to 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.299 plan, like, days in advance for it. But there 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:09.240 are better bottoms than I that can do things 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.160 on a dime. Does it? Like, can it happen, like, 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.359 immediately after, I don't know, you get home 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.900 from, you know, dinner and you haven't been prepping? 00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:19.539 Like, I mean, I know there's prep involved in 00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:21.799 terms of, like, lube and all that. But, like, 00:17:21.859 --> 00:17:25.079 can it happen without the other prep or not usually? 00:17:25.299 --> 00:17:27.779 It can. It depends on the person because, like, 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:31.799 as a gay person participating in gay sex. meaning 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.880 anal, you know, there, there is occupational 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.259 hazard with that. And there are folks that are 00:17:38.259 --> 00:17:40.259 absolutely, you know, I know it's a hazard. I'm 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:43.279 not afraid of it. If stuff comes, it comes. There's 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.160 some folks that take certain fiber supplements 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.700 that will make sure that like they're, they are 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:50.400 fully clear. There's some folks that know their 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.279 body super well and can actually control all 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.130 of that. So it's a spectrum. And I was talking 00:17:56.130 --> 00:17:57.930 to my friend that I went to the heated rivalry 00:17:57.930 --> 00:17:59.890 rave with. And I was like, one of the things 00:17:59.890 --> 00:18:01.970 I was thinking, I was like, the sex is so hot. 00:18:02.029 --> 00:18:07.069 They have it so often. And I am so jealous. You're 00:18:07.069 --> 00:18:09.670 like, that's the most unrealistic part. Yeah. 00:18:10.369 --> 00:18:12.210 I'm like, if I could have it like that every 00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:14.150 day. Oh, my God. Well, not every day because 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.309 they were there were years in between. Yeah. 00:18:16.490 --> 00:18:19.920 But but it's like. I'm like, I'm always, I'm 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.380 more anxious about the prepping for sex than 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.700 the actual sex itself. Because I like have fun 00:18:24.700 --> 00:18:27.460 with it, you know? I'm like, live loose a little. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.660 That's great perspective. It's like the reality 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:33.880 of, you know, this is just part of how things 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.480 work, you know? Seeing them fall in love from 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.660 the very beginning when he awkwardly introduced 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:42.579 himself. Like, just like watching it grow from 00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:46.579 there into the... the scene in the workout room 00:18:46.579 --> 00:18:49.279 at the end of that episode of the first episode 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:54.359 to gosh let me ask you a lot of people say not 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:56.559 a lot but there are many people myself included 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.440 who didn't get into the show until episode three 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.079 were you into it like immediately and what do 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:05.119 you think about that you feel free to insult 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.480 me it's fine the internet already has oh my gosh 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.859 i can never insult my best friend or was it just 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.680 No, on threads, people are literally like, if 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.240 you didn't like the first two episodes, you don't 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.720 understand cinema. I actually tell most of the 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.240 people that I try to get in the show, I'm like, 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.920 make it to episode three. And I think that there 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.160 is beauty in episode one and two. And the folks 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:28.759 that like really like respond well to it are 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.119 probably more progressive in the sense that like 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.240 watching sexual things in front of other people 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.359 doesn't scare them. I think there's like those 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:40.680 first two episodes are going were. Interesting 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.720 for a lot of folks because you're seeing gay 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:47.440 sex on TV being the main focal point for two 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.140 episodes. And then Scott Hunter comes in, which 00:19:51.140 --> 00:19:54.359 we find out in episode five becomes the reason 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.779 that enables the first couple, Shane and Ilya, 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.680 to get together. And so I think like episode 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:05.339 three is kind of like and also book one starts 00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.839 with Scott Hunter, too. So it's interesting how 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.740 they merge the two. Yeah. So I think I think 00:20:11.740 --> 00:20:15.019 it is OK to say get to episode three for some 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:18.430 folks because. They might find discomfort in 00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:22.730 seeing a lot of sex. And also the pacing of the 00:20:22.730 --> 00:20:25.670 show is new for a lot of folks. It's six episodes 00:20:25.670 --> 00:20:28.769 over a decade. Like there's a lot going on in 00:20:28.769 --> 00:20:31.730 a short amount of time. So cinematic masterpiece, 00:20:31.950 --> 00:20:34.950 the whole thing. I completely agree. But I think 00:20:34.950 --> 00:20:36.849 there's reasons to say like it could be uncomfortable 00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:39.349 for someone at first. And episode three is a 00:20:39.349 --> 00:20:43.839 good jumping off point for people. Yeah. love 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:48.559 sex and watching it on tv like you know i watch 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.660 like outlander and only because of the sex not 00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.180 for historical accuracy of the show even though 00:20:53.180 --> 00:20:56.480 i have learned a lot of american history watching 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.519 outlander however my point is that like i've 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:03.279 never actually watched gay sex and to me i saw 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:05.579 it and i was like oh interesting and also like 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:09.460 do i like this but but but But I wasn't sure, 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.720 like, just to be honest, like I wasn't sure. 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.299 And then when I saw Scott and Kip, I'm like, 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:18.839 oh, I do like this because I like them as a couple. 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.000 And then when I went back, obviously, to watch 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.539 episode one and two, the second time around, 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.579 I was like, oh, I really like this. Because now 00:21:26.579 --> 00:21:29.140 I like knew them as characters. And I guess I 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:31.900 needed like a little bit more love. Maybe, you 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:33.559 know, perhaps maybe that's what I'm used to. 00:21:33.579 --> 00:21:35.710 That's what I've been. you know, that's what 00:21:35.710 --> 00:21:38.009 I grew up on, like romance in that respect. Like 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:40.569 I needed it to be a little bit more romance included 00:21:40.569 --> 00:21:43.130 with the sex. I'm glad that you I'm glad to hear 00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:46.289 you say that because I think not that, you know, 00:21:46.289 --> 00:21:48.230 I need any validation. I feel the way I feel. 00:21:48.269 --> 00:21:50.809 But I do like I have told people who I recommended 00:21:50.809 --> 00:21:52.809 the show to and they like text me. They're like, 00:21:52.869 --> 00:21:54.650 oh, I'm not into this. You know, and I'm like, 00:21:54.670 --> 00:21:56.390 please just make it to episode three. I promise 00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:59.210 it's worth your time. And every single time it's 00:21:59.210 --> 00:22:01.089 been that way. Like every single time they're 00:22:01.089 --> 00:22:02.910 like, oh, my God, episode three. And then they're 00:22:02.910 --> 00:22:05.210 just like. go through it the whole thing so that 00:22:05.210 --> 00:22:08.210 is so interesting I mean I love Scott and Kip 00:22:08.210 --> 00:22:11.920 but I mean, maybe it's because I read a lot of 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.900 romances and like you're it's very clear that 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:17.859 this is not this is like not the stringless relationship 00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:20.759 they think it is. You know, to me, it was like 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.539 really clear that they were so they were fond 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:26.880 of each other. Right. I love a good friends to 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.700 lovers. They were really rivals. Did you ever 00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.000 hear like people say like it's not rivals to 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:38.430 lovers, it's idiots to lovers. Babies, you're 00:22:38.430 --> 00:22:41.329 falling in love. We all see it. I mean, so to 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:45.089 me, that's very interesting because I, too, feel 00:22:45.089 --> 00:22:48.289 like I need to have some sort of emotional connection. 00:22:48.789 --> 00:22:53.029 I enjoy better watching sexy scenes with that 00:22:53.029 --> 00:22:55.529 rather than without, even though it's beautiful 00:22:55.529 --> 00:22:57.730 even without, you know, like a well -done sex 00:22:57.730 --> 00:23:00.630 scene. But for me, I think I just knew. I was 00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:05.950 like, oh, yeah, they're extraordinarily fond 00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:08.930 of each other. Right away. Episode one, where 00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:11.089 they're in the workout room and they're like 00:23:11.089 --> 00:23:13.650 trying to beat each other, like in the amount 00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:15.930 of reps that they're doing. And it's like that 00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:19.589 rivalry where it's like, it's tension. I just, 00:23:19.630 --> 00:23:24.210 the first two episodes growing the tension. I 00:23:24.210 --> 00:23:26.710 was like, oh my gosh, I can only be edged for 00:23:26.710 --> 00:23:29.490 so long. After episode two, there was no longer 00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:31.730 edging. You got to pay off for everything you 00:23:31.730 --> 00:23:35.339 got. I love that. So I had a question about that 00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:37.160 scene that you were talking about where they 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.960 were kind of feeling each other out in the workout 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.099 room. How realistic was that from the perspective 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.640 of someone who was closeted back then? Oh, gosh, 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:51.259 it's interesting because I think that in a way 00:23:51.259 --> 00:23:55.279 it was realistically portrayed. So in some queer 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.079 culture, and again, I'm not a monolith, but like 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.730 cruising culture. And so thinking about like 00:24:02.730 --> 00:24:06.170 bathhouses and saunas and whatnot, there's tells 00:24:06.170 --> 00:24:08.309 that you try to do, you try to get closer, you 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:10.569 try to get like some form of contact. There's 00:24:10.569 --> 00:24:14.109 a lot of reality in that situation, like how 00:24:14.109 --> 00:24:18.269 it relates to like, like how I would try to find 00:24:18.269 --> 00:24:22.470 like other folks like me. It's interesting because 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:26.589 I. was growing up in the age of social media 00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:28.430 becoming super popular we're thinking about like 00:24:28.430 --> 00:24:34.210 2010 2013 era grinder the lovely app what first 00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:38.089 came out and so my way of finding other folks 00:24:38.089 --> 00:24:41.109 was through these apps and i think to now today 00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:43.569 the apps in some way shape or form are where 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:46.829 most people find connections especially for right 00:24:46.829 --> 00:24:49.809 now like immediate sex watching the show may 00:24:49.809 --> 00:24:53.109 be long for like that type of like romance which 00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:55.589 is like running into someone random not knowing 00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:57.950 if they're gay or straight but like feeling it 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:01.990 out and it working out that way um because like 00:25:01.990 --> 00:25:05.440 my husband i've known since high school I'm one 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.079 of those weird moments where it's high school 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.900 sweethearts, but he didn't know if he was and 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:14.940 we worked it out over time type things. So I 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:17.460 lucked out in that regard. I married my best 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:20.759 friend. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a perfect 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:24.119 person. I've put him through a lot of shit and 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:27.220 he has kept up with me through it. And I'm so 00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:29.720 thankful that he's allowed me to grow with him. 00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:31.940 But it's one of those things where if I didn't 00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:34.609 have that. I probably would be finding some random 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:38.509 hookup. But the apps are truly like a way of 00:25:38.509 --> 00:25:41.369 finding folks. I think anymore like that cruising 00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:44.410 culture is beginning to fade of like running 00:25:44.410 --> 00:25:47.069 into each other at the bathhouse and like locking 00:25:47.069 --> 00:25:50.109 eyes and seeing like if one thing will lead to 00:25:50.109 --> 00:25:52.549 another. At least it doesn't happen as often 00:25:52.549 --> 00:25:55.230 in my friend groups that I hear about. Seems 00:25:55.230 --> 00:25:57.309 a lot more difficult, right? Like than getting 00:25:57.309 --> 00:25:59.299 on an app and knowing that. Pretty much everyone 00:25:59.299 --> 00:26:01.619 on the app is there for the one thing that you 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:04.539 guys all want. But, you know, what I always forget 00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:08.559 is that the show is set back in time. Like always 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:12.319 forget. Yeah. Like it is 2008. Right. Yeah. Right. 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:14.940 Exactly. Like you can see the progression of 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:17.119 the phones, et cetera. So they're they're not 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.779 in the same place as we are now. I totally agree. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.940 Even no matter what you're seeking, gay, straight, 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:28.190 queer. hetero, whatever it is that you're seeking, 00:26:28.309 --> 00:26:31.569 a lot more people now find connections online 00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:35.259 first, you know, but that like. thing that they 00:26:35.259 --> 00:26:38.259 did where they locked eyes in in the gym especially 00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:41.259 like ilia was like seeking he was feeling he 00:26:41.259 --> 00:26:42.960 was like feeling him out he definitely was like 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.259 if i touch his hand when he touches the water 00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:47.920 bottle like will he be like you know or like 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:51.299 he didn't run away right so i think he was and 00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:54.680 it felt that i mean i think that maybe made sense 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:59.039 for 2008 you know that kind of at least you know 00:26:59.369 --> 00:27:01.690 And I don't know. And something else, too, there 00:27:01.690 --> 00:27:05.170 is like with the bisexuality, if it didn't land, 00:27:05.390 --> 00:27:08.609 it's no skin off his back because dude bro culture, 00:27:08.710 --> 00:27:11.089 too, where it's like I'm going to smack like 00:27:11.089 --> 00:27:13.329 my teammates ass or something and whatnot. It's 00:27:13.329 --> 00:27:16.490 like it's the code switching that you can get 00:27:16.490 --> 00:27:19.650 away with a little bit versus like like if I'm 00:27:19.650 --> 00:27:22.890 a gay guy and I'm trying to advance on another 00:27:22.890 --> 00:27:24.430 person, I don't know if they're gay or straight. 00:27:24.509 --> 00:27:28.190 In 2008. This was before gay marriage was legalized. 00:27:28.329 --> 00:27:31.829 This is still at a time where like being gay 00:27:31.829 --> 00:27:35.990 wasn't as OK as it is today. And I think I think 00:27:35.990 --> 00:27:40.690 honestly, with the acceptance of gayness by especially 00:27:40.690 --> 00:27:44.390 women is has allowed that ability for us to be 00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.170 more open in the world. And I think like one 00:27:47.170 --> 00:27:49.089 of the great things about this show is it introduced 00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:53.140 a lot of this to. a large group of people, especially 00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:57.019 women, that allow maybe some misconceptions about 00:27:57.019 --> 00:27:59.779 the gay community to be unwrapped a little bit. 00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.039 It's like a safe way to get an experience into 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.970 the life and world of a gay person. In a safe 00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:09.890 space and maybe allow you to reflect and unpack 00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:12.769 some things. OK, you you bring up a good point. 00:28:12.829 --> 00:28:16.690 And so I've seen some criticism about the fact 00:28:16.690 --> 00:28:20.750 that these books are written by supposedly by 00:28:20.750 --> 00:28:23.390 a straight woman and consumed. I don't want to 00:28:23.390 --> 00:28:25.069 say primarily because I don't know if that's 00:28:25.069 --> 00:28:27.509 true, but a lot of straight women are watching 00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:30.309 this show. And there's some criticism from the 00:28:30.309 --> 00:28:32.950 queer community. Is this like a fetish for straight 00:28:32.950 --> 00:28:35.289 women? Like, does it actually like represent? 00:28:36.589 --> 00:28:39.869 the queer community well. It was also directed 00:28:39.869 --> 00:28:42.650 by a gay man. So I know that like adds another 00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:44.910 layer to it. What are your thoughts about that? 00:28:45.089 --> 00:28:47.990 Yeah, I also have heard and seen the criticism, 00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:53.490 but my stance on it is art is art is for everybody 00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:58.690 and how you analyze it is personal to you. So 00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:03.569 the books were made by a woman, presumably, we'll 00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:06.099 say presumably straight, could be queer. Because 00:29:06.099 --> 00:29:10.279 queer is a broad spectrum. And this media getting 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.220 out has touched the lives of many queer people, 00:29:12.299 --> 00:29:15.140 myself included. And I think that stories can 00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:18.640 be told just like how like in the very beginning 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.880 of this, I said I was there was a gay character 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:24.819 played by a straight man. I think that that can 00:29:24.819 --> 00:29:29.000 be OK. It's how you go about like presenting 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.599 it, doing your research on like what it is to 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:35.220 be like that, because like. Being gay and queer, 00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:37.660 there's so many different avenues. Like as a 00:29:37.660 --> 00:29:39.559 white gay man, I'm going to have a different 00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:44.039 experience than a black gay man or a trans person. 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.660 So there's so many different experiences that 00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:50.700 can happen in queerness. But I think that this 00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:54.559 show has done so much good for representation. 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.019 It did not follow the dark trope of killing off 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:03.559 characters. And so it's like these are stories. 00:30:04.089 --> 00:30:07.410 Stories are for everybody and how you process 00:30:07.410 --> 00:30:09.670 it and how you internalize it, how you reflect 00:30:09.670 --> 00:30:12.630 on it is uniquely personal. So as a straight 00:30:12.630 --> 00:30:15.930 woman watching the show, I think that there's 00:30:15.930 --> 00:30:18.069 a lot that you can take from it that would be 00:30:18.069 --> 00:30:20.390 different than what a gay person might or a queer 00:30:20.390 --> 00:30:22.420 person might take from it. And I think that is 00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:25.420 OK. But what you do with that information or 00:30:25.420 --> 00:30:27.619 try to perpetuate onto others, that's where it 00:30:27.619 --> 00:30:29.420 becomes problematic. I think it's important, 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:32.099 if you don't mind, that we do talk about Ilya 00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:35.559 being bi. Because, you know, from what I understand 00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:38.980 in the queer community, there's a lot of people 00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:41.640 that complain about like bi erasure. Right. Like 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.460 we don't really hear a lot from about bi characters. 00:30:45.619 --> 00:30:47.819 Do you want to talk about that? There's a lot 00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:50.849 of icky. I feel surrounding bisexuality. And 00:30:50.849 --> 00:30:54.390 when I say icky, I mean like stereotypes, perceptions 00:30:54.390 --> 00:30:59.470 and whatnot. So my husband is bisexual and like 00:30:59.470 --> 00:31:03.549 I worked a lot through some of like my insecurities 00:31:03.549 --> 00:31:06.150 by talking to him about it. One of the great 00:31:06.150 --> 00:31:08.190 things that we do is communicate and over communicate 00:31:08.190 --> 00:31:10.710 to points, but it helps us with our relationship. 00:31:10.769 --> 00:31:15.029 But I really appreciated. the way that they handled 00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:18.130 ilia's bisexuality especially when he mentioned 00:31:18.130 --> 00:31:21.410 like well not i'm not gay not fully there's always 00:31:21.410 --> 00:31:24.289 like this perception of like okay so if a bisexual 00:31:24.289 --> 00:31:27.690 person marries a certain gender they're no longer 00:31:27.690 --> 00:31:30.950 really about the other and like no that is definitely 00:31:30.950 --> 00:31:34.029 not the case like my husband like because like 00:31:34.029 --> 00:31:36.029 like whenever we're like falling over people 00:31:36.029 --> 00:31:37.910 i'll be like oh my gosh like this one guy oh 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:39.430 my god so hot and he'll be like oh yeah no this 00:31:39.430 --> 00:31:42.779 is one woman absolutely stunning goddess i'm 00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.920 like slay like that's great and i try to pull 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.579 him up a little bit because there's like this 00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:51.980 unfair expectation on him that it's like i want 00:31:51.980 --> 00:31:53.759 him to be more expressive about his sexuality 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:57.619 and it's allowed me to like process like my queerness 00:31:57.619 --> 00:32:02.660 my gayness and even masculinity to point bisexuality 00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:07.200 is like bi erasure is something that happens 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.220 often without even thinking about it and I was 00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:13.759 always so scared, like, oh, will he leave me 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.420 for a woman? Like, will I not be good enough 00:32:16.420 --> 00:32:18.900 or whatnot? Because I was the first man he's 00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:21.839 ever been with and the only man he has ever been 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.000 with. I'm like the miracle one. And so like in 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.000 the very early phases of like my marriage or 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.720 not marriage, but my relationship with him, I 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:34.400 was like, oh my gosh, do I have to do extra? 00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:36.279 Like, will I lose him? And then like, I unpacked 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:39.519 those misconceptions. Like he'll always. validate 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:42.599 me and be like no I'm with you for a reason and 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:46.200 that reason is because I love you like sex aside 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:51.359 and it also allowed me an opportunity to ask 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.819 him about straight sex that's really interesting 00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:58.579 when Shane and Ilya are at the cottage and Ilya 00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:01.440 brings up I could marry Svetlana right Shane 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:03.779 is obviously head over heels in love with Ilya 00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:05.859 at this point and the moment Ilya says like I 00:33:05.859 --> 00:33:08.259 could marry Svetlana and Shane is like But you 00:33:08.259 --> 00:33:11.920 like women, right? I think that Shane has insecurities 00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.779 about dating or being with a bi man because at 00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:17.619 any point he's like, well, he could just leave 00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:19.900 me for Svetlana or any of the other gorgeous 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:23.559 women that surround him. I guarantee you Shane 00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:27.559 was also thinking he could also be with a woman 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:30.319 and have a much easier life because Shane obviously 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:33.220 loves Ilya at that point, too, where it's like 00:33:33.220 --> 00:33:37.170 he could. be able to not worry about all the 00:33:37.170 --> 00:33:40.309 things in Russia. He could live a very easy life, 00:33:40.329 --> 00:33:43.190 happy life with a woman and not have to worry 00:33:43.190 --> 00:33:45.109 about anything. I guarantee you he was thinking 00:33:45.109 --> 00:33:47.509 about that. Yeah. Like even in that club scene, 00:33:47.609 --> 00:33:50.269 the chemistry with Rose is like, it's just like 00:33:50.269 --> 00:33:53.190 bopping. And then you see Ilya's chemistry with 00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:55.829 the random woman. And he's like, you want to 00:33:55.829 --> 00:33:59.529 play this game? Look at me. I win. I win. But 00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:02.309 he was pulling it off, right? Like, and Shane 00:34:02.309 --> 00:34:05.359 can't. What was your favorite part? Like, what 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.940 was your favorite scene? My favorite scene is 00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:10.860 the bar scene. All the things she said. I love 00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.280 a dramatic moment. The music and everything was 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.000 great. The cinematography was great. Everything 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.159 about it was great. When I'm at the bar and I'm 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.599 very drunk, I want that moment where I see someone 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.380 from across the room. and lock eyes and have 00:34:24.380 --> 00:34:27.059 that dramatic moment. And I've had that moment 00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:30.219 a lot of times in bars that end up usually leading 00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:33.059 though to me making out with that said person 00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:36.980 versus like this, we're grinding on different 00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:38.920 people to try to make each other more jealous 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.599 to just like build the tension where I'm like, 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.159 oh, now maybe I want to try that. The interesting 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.579 thing about that being my favorite scene, it 00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:51.329 is a scene that my husband can't watch. There's 00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:53.269 a lot of things about it that are triggering. 00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:58.510 The jealousy aspect of it. We didn't talk about 00:34:58.510 --> 00:35:02.289 this, but also there's the idea of the beard 00:35:02.289 --> 00:35:06.150 and being with a woman when you're with a man 00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:09.190 on the side because you can't tell anybody. And 00:35:09.190 --> 00:35:13.590 so there's a lot of things that bring back bad 00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:17.820 memories about it. My favorite scene is something 00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:21.059 that I can only share every so often. But he 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:23.900 said that to me the other day and I sat with 00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:26.659 that and I was like, I can see why. I totally 00:35:26.659 --> 00:35:30.019 understand. My stomach swoops every time I watch 00:35:30.019 --> 00:35:33.219 that scene. I love the swoop. But you know what? 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.420 That flip that you just did about what it could 00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.400 mean to someone where that doesn't feel good. 00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:43.980 I never thought of it and I can see that actually. 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:49.320 trauma like as you said like if rose was not 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:51.480 as supportive who knows what would have been 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.920 what that would have been like you know for shane 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:57.280 too i always feel like every time we talk there's 00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.440 something new like something i'm like oh i thought 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.699 of this you know and that's what makes it art 00:36:01.699 --> 00:36:04.780 right mason Thank you so much for joining us 00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:07.639 today. Thank you for having me. I had a blast. 00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:10.719 I feel like I needed a second to just sit with 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.679 that because what always shifts me after a conversation 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:18.219 like this is that it's a reminder that representation 00:36:18.219 --> 00:36:21.719 just doesn't land the same way for... everyone, 00:36:21.820 --> 00:36:25.420 right? For us, we look at the show, we see it 00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:28.059 as art, we see it as craft, structure, you know, 00:36:28.059 --> 00:36:29.820 we see the cinematography, the needle drops, 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:31.739 the narrative pacing, all these other things. 00:36:31.900 --> 00:36:34.539 But for someone else watching it, like they're 00:36:34.539 --> 00:36:37.059 recognizing pieces of themselves and their own 00:36:37.059 --> 00:36:39.420 lives. And that's like different, you know, and 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:42.239 I'm so happy we had this interview together. 00:36:42.460 --> 00:36:45.199 You know, there are elements of the show. that 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.659 resonate like that for all of us, right? Like, 00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:50.960 I think I said this in the immigrant episode 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.739 or even the neurodivergence episode. Beauty of 00:36:53.739 --> 00:36:57.820 the show is that not every topic becomes, oh, 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.300 that's such a very special episode of Peter rivalry. 00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.300 I mean, it sounds strange, but you know what 00:37:04.300 --> 00:37:07.980 I mean? It's like just kind of in the show. It 00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:10.840 permeates the show. It just exists in the show. 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.440 I think that's what lends itself to sort of. 00:37:13.949 --> 00:37:16.210 some of what Mason was saying at the end taps 00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:19.989 into that human experience. But there are going 00:37:19.989 --> 00:37:22.929 to be elements of the show that will always... 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:26.559 more resonate with someone's actual lived experience. 00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:28.840 And I just loved hearing how it resonated for 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.739 Mason. I like the fact that the characters on 00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:34.139 the show are not like, you know, flattened into 00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:37.739 symbols. They're not like cautionary tales, as 00:37:37.739 --> 00:37:40.159 we discussed, right? Like they're not here to 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:42.460 represent the entire community. I think that 00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:45.980 kind of like dimensionality is not often given 00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:48.059 in queer storytelling, but like we're getting 00:37:48.059 --> 00:37:50.199 it here. That is such a good point, you know, 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.960 because they're allowed to be assholes. or boring, 00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:55.840 or hockey players, or any of those things. And 00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:58.880 they're not representing anyone but themselves 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:03.000 because at the baseline, it is a very intimate 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.239 story about two people, right? Like these external 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.699 elements exist, but you're not watching it that 00:38:09.699 --> 00:38:14.699 way. It's trying not to be like this beacon of 00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:19.199 representation, but by not trying, it becomes 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.579 that. Do you know what I mean? It's like a... 00:38:21.869 --> 00:38:24.469 It's like a soft representation, you know, like 00:38:24.469 --> 00:38:27.590 in a way that like you can see like many, many 00:38:27.590 --> 00:38:30.650 can see themselves in it, you know? Yeah. Because 00:38:30.650 --> 00:38:33.630 at the end of the day, everyone deserves sunshine. 00:38:34.010 --> 00:38:36.989 So do you want to do you want to move into our 00:38:36.989 --> 00:38:41.110 moment of the sunshine of the week? Thanks for 00:38:41.110 --> 00:38:44.570 asking this remarkable question. So my moment 00:38:44.570 --> 00:38:49.070 of sunshine was actually we spent an overnight 00:38:49.070 --> 00:38:52.750 with my kids and my husband. in Philly. And that's 00:38:52.750 --> 00:38:56.070 the first time we've done that. And it was really 00:38:56.070 --> 00:38:59.929 fun. It was a short enough trip to feel like 00:38:59.929 --> 00:39:03.670 we didn't have to pack our house to travel with 00:39:03.670 --> 00:39:07.929 kids. But it was far enough away that it felt 00:39:07.929 --> 00:39:11.030 like an escape. We went to the Beauty and the 00:39:11.030 --> 00:39:15.090 Beast musical. I loved it. But my son said it 00:39:15.090 --> 00:39:17.230 was the worst part of the weekend. We stayed 00:39:17.230 --> 00:39:20.980 at the W on the 40th floor. My kids were fascinated 00:39:20.980 --> 00:39:25.539 by the floor -to -ceiling windows. And then we 00:39:25.539 --> 00:39:29.219 had breakfast in a place that had like 8 ,000 00:39:29.219 --> 00:39:31.539 different types of French toast. And then we 00:39:31.539 --> 00:39:33.320 went to the Franklin Museum, which is really 00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:35.960 fun. The Franklin Institute? Yes. The Franklin 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.199 Institute. Yes, yes. The Franklin Institute. 00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:39.800 You could tell you don't go to Philly often. 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:43.099 I know. We just don't. Someone told me Philly 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:46.019 is so fun. Someone. Just a random person. This 00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:49.989 boring person told me. Actually, she was right 00:39:49.989 --> 00:39:52.170 about this one. No, you're the boring one. I'm 00:39:52.170 --> 00:39:55.789 the asshole. Get it right. Get it right. So it 00:39:55.789 --> 00:39:59.849 was really fun. So my moment of sunshine is something 00:39:59.849 --> 00:40:03.230 very nice and sweet about our mutual friends. 00:40:04.230 --> 00:40:07.010 The woman who introduced me to Mason, our guest 00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:10.309 today, is a very dear friend. I'm super grateful 00:40:10.309 --> 00:40:13.610 to her. And she's super supportive of this podcast. 00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:16.329 And Anusha, she's always texting us, right? In 00:40:16.329 --> 00:40:19.130 like a group text as if she's like having a conversation 00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:21.610 with us while we're doing this podcast. Also, 00:40:21.650 --> 00:40:25.449 she's my friend also. Just by eye, just letting 00:40:25.449 --> 00:40:29.170 everybody know. And she is a wonderful human 00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:32.369 being. And I cannot wait to hear what she has 00:40:32.369 --> 00:40:34.980 to say about this episode. Next week on Everyone 00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.139 Deserves Sunshine, we're talking about how art 00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:40.500 inspires art. So subscribe now wherever you get 00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.519 your podcasts. And if you want to say hi to the 00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.139 girls in the crease, find us on Instagram, Facebook, 00:40:45.340 --> 00:40:47.820 and threads at EveryoneDeservesSunshine. And 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:51.099 email us at EveryoneDeservesSunshine at gmail 00:40:51.099 --> 00:40:54.139 .com. Because we love your emails, new episodes 00:40:54.139 --> 00:40:56.179 drop on Mondays. See you then.