Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine. I'm Diana.
And I'm Anusha. We're the Girls in the Crease
and you are on Episode 7. queer representation.
So throughout this podcast, Anusha and I have
analyzed heated rivalry from many different angles
like intimacy, masculinity, neurodivergence,
we had a music episode, we talked about like
private versus public life, and so on. We're
also very aware that we're two women analyzing
a love story about two men falling for each other.
And while we hope that we're approaching it with
care and intention, we know that's a layer of
experience that we don't have because we are
in fact not queer men. Yes. So because of that,
we invited someone whose perspective we genuinely
respect and want to hear, not to speak for all
gay and queer men, but to share his experience
of watching the show and like what resonated
and what maybe didn't. I'm so excited to talk
to Mason today. Me too. All right, let's get
into it. Welcome, Mason. Welcome to the show.
And thank you so much for joining us today. We're
so interested and curious, curious to hear your
thoughts about heated rivalry. you know, what
felt true to you, what maybe a straight audience
may not fully comprehend. First things first,
I just met you moments ago. I'm already completely
charmed by you. Oh, shucks. Tell us how you met
Diana. Yeah. So funny enough, what was her name?
I forget. Someone at work. Someone you work with,
I think. Yeah. Yeah. I told them that I was going
to this. Yeah, work colleague. I told them that
I was going to the heated rivalry rave in Philly.
And this was something really unique for me because
I don't really go out that much anymore. So I
was expressing how excited I was. And they were
like, wait, my best friend is going to be there
as well. And I went, all right, cool. We're going
to be best friends then. And I show up in the
cold in Philly. We check our coats and all of
a sudden I hear, wait, Mason. And I turn around
and I see her. And it was like the scene where
we see each other from across the bar. And I
was like, oh, my God. That's exactly what happened.
Which was. Less raging jealousy. Oh, 100%. 100
% joy. I was a little jealous. I was a little
jealous to see Mason with his friend. But that's
how we got to meet. And I'm very happy that my
friend got to introduce me to my best friend
now. Mason, when you first watched Heated Bible
Read, like. What was your immediate response,
reaction, anything? Tell us what you want to
talk about. And also, we need your origin story
of how you got into it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We ask everyone the origin story. That's true.
Yeah, okay. So my heated rivalry origin story.
So my friend that I went to the rave with, we
were having a girls' night maybe like six, eight
months ago. And our girls' night is going to
Barnes & Noble. So our ritual is I will pick
her up. We will drive to McDonald's, get ourselves
a fountain beverage. So I'm not a big book reader.
I love manga. I love anime. So that's the section
I will usually go to. But my friend Chelsea loves
romance books and loves hockey. And she was looking
at a hockey romance. And I didn't know what it
was at the time. And I was like, oh, that looks
kind of cool because like I I grew up watching
hockey. My mom was a huge Ron Hextall fan from
the Flyers. I had an Eric Lindros jersey growing
up like a little as a little baby. So I was like,
oh, I like hockey and I'm kind of getting into
romance. And then fast forward, I'm like scrolling
on TikTok and I see all these like fan edits
of these hot men. And I'm like, what is this?
I want to know what this is. And I text my friend
about it. And she's like, it's heated rivalry.
Have you watched it yet? And I was like, wait,
no. OK, hold up. What's it on? HBO. I was like,
oh, I got rid of HBO. I guess I'm going to download
it again and spend money. I love spending money.
But so I binged it because at this point. every
it had aired completely once it finished i was
left with that void of when you finish something
and you know it's complete and you don't know
what to do with yourself so you just immerse
yourself completely into it i bought all the
books i found out i love smut and romance and
it's just beautiful welcome welcome to my world
i got immediately immersed into the story and
also like growing up in the 2010s like so i graduated
high school 2013 And part of my coming out story
revolved in 2013. Like a lot of this hit home
to me. If I had this when I was growing up and
my little closeted white gay boy in high school,
because the closest I had was Glee. And Glee
was very like comedic, but it was also like it
would not. It would not fly in today's day and
age. I rewatch it as a comfort show for the comedy
of it. Sue Sylvester is one of my favorite characters
of all time, even though she is incredibly problematic.
But it was nice seeing romance, especially modern
romance, like that wasn't so dire and dark. And
I know like probably a lot of people say that,
but like the queer characters that I would watch
were always like. a plot point or killed off
or like the butt of a joke so i've been happy
and one of the first characters i think i saw
it was in happy endings the comedy show and it
was this man played by a straight guy that was
the butt of the joke was the comedic relief then
there's like characters that you would fall in
love with uh do you any y 'all sci -fi people
bowser galactica is my hyper fixation show love
it dearly um but like one of the characters in
there is queer but the only reason you would
know is if you watched a web series add -on that
wasn't a part of the actual airing, those characters
are usually so beloved and they use it to be
that shock factor. And it also makes you wonder,
like, what about them makes them so loved? People
love these characters having these really nice
moments and also so real moments because there
is a bit of heartache and a little bit of turmoil
that happens in the series that resolves very
humanly, I would say. It's not just like shock
for the sake of shock. And one of the big things
like Scott Hunter and Kip's whole romance, like
Kip is going through a lot. He's giving up his
friends. He's giving up his family to be with
Scott and Scott's like, but my career. And it's
interesting seeing it as a fear of coming out
because of the career versus the fear of coming
out because like I might get hurt. I might get
victimized in some way. And a lot of queer folks
do upon coming out. Um, I always thought that
was so interesting because this story, like they're
really rich hockey players that have a really
nice cottage and a really nice condo. So there's
like that little bit of escapism that we get
like being like, oh, what if I could afford like
a really nice condo and this really nice romance?
There's like a lot of stuff that like I'm watching
it and I see myself and then I'm like, oh, this
is still a little bit out of my reach because
I'm not going to these galas that are. like suit
and tie with really really important people in
there um so it's like it was nice seeing the
escapism part of it where i'm like i'm walking
out of my life and like just like observing something
completely different but then seeing those moments
where it's like i felt that before I've done
that before because I'm not a perfect human.
I have done a lot of work on myself. There's
there's points where I was a Scott Hunter and
putting like a lot of hardship onto my partner.
And I'm lucky to have my partner who is a behavioral
technician who also helps me unpack a lot of
the things because growing up, I was very I almost
would classify myself as emotionless in a lot
of ways. And he. feels emotions so deeply. He
actually taught me how to experience emotions
in a way. And one of the other things that shocked
me about this show is how great support systems
all the characters had. Like one of the big things
in my queer identity and that was a big thing
for me is finding my found family and the people
that I can trust with anything. and like all
the friends were so good about keeping secrets
and being like ride or dies kip's friend elena
ride or die amazing person looking out for kip
shane having rose rose could have like been like
oh my gosh this is the last time i want to be
a beard for somebody but instead allowed shane
to like speak to his life and allow him that
moment to say sometimes i like kind of like being
the hole for the peg and ilia did have that lana
and like the support systems that they had were
so strong where there was so many points where
all of this story could have went wrong because
a secret gets out because a lot of folks love
to gossip and their people didn't. And I thought
that was so refreshing, so important because
in queer culture, finding your found family is
so important. And the fact that all these characters
had that in a regard, I thought was amazing to
see. You know, actually, I have a question about
that because you're right. They do have that,
but what they don't have is like any sort of
connection to. a queer community. So I was just
wondering how that hit you. Did you feel an ache
for them, like a sense of loneliness despite
the fact that they had all these ride or dies
that they haven't connected with that like more
extensive found family? All of those people that
you mentioned who taught you about queer culture
and queer history. Yeah, they don't have that,
right, is what you're saying. Yeah, they don't
have any of that. Yeah, they're like navigating
that all on their own. Yeah. And there's also
like the thought of like, is it something that
they'd be interested in? Because there's also
the idea that like, is my sexuality my whole
identity? Is it something that I want to learn
the history about versus this is the person that
I love and I just want to figure out how to maintain
this with the most amount of safety as possible?
Because it is so true. Scott Hunter did come
out, paved the way for them, even though they're
not out yet. They showed nothing about like in
the TV series, at least the aftermath of it of
because we know and at least the United States,
every action has an equal and opposite reaction,
especially in the news. And so there's also going
to be that negative kind of like and just how.
how like horrific and taxing it is on an individual
and like how pointed the words get like the F
slur and even with how common it is still to
this day. But yeah, I'd be curious if they go
into that in the next series or if they're even
interested in that, because I think like the
genesis of them finding this out on their own
is their love for each other. Like, I think it's
less about. wanting to know about being and this
me reading into them it's like it's less about
being gay but more about being just so enamored
and in love with each other I sometimes wonder
because everything in the direction feels like
a choice to me when the world is in crisis or
I am feeling like all the existential dread sometimes
I like I call it making my world small and I
like just try to like focus on this thing in
front of me, usually my children. I'm wondering
now that you're saying, is that a choice to make
this thing that's so big come to like sort of
a micro level of like humanness? And you're instead
of looking at the macrocosm of where these characters
exist in, you know, this community or that or
immigrant community or neurodivergence, they're
just like bringing it to the like small. I don't
know. Maybe it is a choice. Like literally their
relationship. Like that's it. That's all that
matters. Yeah. And everything else you extrapolate.
Like you see Kip and, you know, Scott, like you
see the external forces that push them apart
without slammed over our head. Like you can be
have this very personal story and still really
understand that. Why did they split up? We know
why they split up. It's not because they're not
in love with each other. Why is Shane so deeply
in the closet? All of these giant existential
questions are still like hanging around the air.
So I wonder if it was a choice. I think it's
a brilliant choice in the right hands because
it still allows for nuance. Yeah, it's like the
human moment. And that's what makes it so accessible
to people because a lot of folks have that experience
of falling in love for someone or with someone.
I think like that human moment. allows you to
connect to it versus the idea of gay people and
whatnot. It's like I'm connected to the characters,
not necessarily just the sexuality of it. That
came, at least with me, later on because I felt,
I was like, maybe I just love awkwardness. That
awkward exchange in the very first scene, I was
like, I think I'm going to love this. This character
is so weird. There's so much layers to it because
the author came out and said, oh, yeah, I didn't
explicitly say it, but. Shane is neurodivergent.
And so there's like little things that you pick
up on of, oh, well, like what I said was weird,
which probably shouldn't just be called weird.
It's just because it's not typical of a neurotypical
person. I like people with character. Cookie
cutter ain't for me. Yeah. Then they give them
a lot of character, a lot of depth, a lot of
complexity. And that's why I think we're partly
why we're so obsessed with them as people and
to like analyze every single thing that they
do. What was one of those scenes for you, like
those pivotal scenes where you like felt like
you saw yourself or saw elements of your life
reflected back at you? One of the most touching
ones that sits rent free in my head is when they're
on the couch in the cottage and like their feet
are touching, but they're on opposite sides.
And like when you think about like modern romance
and whatnot, it's like. We have these phones
and we're tied to them like glue. And the idea
that you could be doing something on the couch
together, but you're still together and just
like touching feet. Like it's something small,
something so tiny, but something that happens
in this house every single day. And to see two
men doing that was just like, wow, wait, like
I'm so used to like. heteronormative romance
and seeing it on the screen so it was that's
just something that lives rent -free in my head
also like when uh when hollander and shane first
the first time that he had sex with ilia and
it wasn't perfect like there was a little bit
of awkwardness to it and one that being so real
um like sometimes the most fun sex is like the
awkward sex where you start laughing And like
things just happen. And it's just like that connection,
that romance, which this show does so well in
ways that also are about consent, because especially
not in the queer community at large, in a lot
of the followings that I've been a part of and
grow up with, sex is like critical to even like
friendships. And a lot of times consent people
think is implied when it is not. And so just
like some of those moments where you might ask
a question and it just like start starts a laughter.
I just thought like, oh, my God, like things
don't happen perfectly. And the show showed that
super well. One of the things the show did not
show, which is I'm just like, oh, my gosh, I
hope people like people that aren't gay will.
hopefully take away of hearing this is after
a hockey game, like bottoming, not likely to
happen. Like you got preparation. Oh, OK. You
got preparation. You got it. You have to change
your diet a day in advance. You got to clean
yourself out. It's a whole ordeal. It's like
it's like hours in preparation just for a moment.
I was like, I hope people don't think that gay
people just have sex willy nilly like that. Like
sometimes it's planned. Like, and you got to
plan, like, days in advance for it. But there
are better bottoms than I that can do things
on a dime. Does it? Like, can it happen, like,
immediately after, I don't know, you get home
from, you know, dinner and you haven't been prepping?
Like, I mean, I know there's prep involved in
terms of, like, lube and all that. But, like,
can it happen without the other prep or not usually?
It can. It depends on the person because, like,
as a gay person participating in gay sex. meaning
anal, you know, there, there is occupational
hazard with that. And there are folks that are
absolutely, you know, I know it's a hazard. I'm
not afraid of it. If stuff comes, it comes. There's
some folks that take certain fiber supplements
that will make sure that like they're, they are
fully clear. There's some folks that know their
body super well and can actually control all
of that. So it's a spectrum. And I was talking
to my friend that I went to the heated rivalry
rave with. And I was like, one of the things
I was thinking, I was like, the sex is so hot.
They have it so often. And I am so jealous. You're
like, that's the most unrealistic part. Yeah.
I'm like, if I could have it like that every
day. Oh, my God. Well, not every day because
they were there were years in between. Yeah.
But but it's like. I'm like, I'm always, I'm
more anxious about the prepping for sex than
the actual sex itself. Because I like have fun
with it, you know? I'm like, live loose a little.
That's great perspective. It's like the reality
of, you know, this is just part of how things
work, you know? Seeing them fall in love from
the very beginning when he awkwardly introduced
himself. Like, just like watching it grow from
there into the... the scene in the workout room
at the end of that episode of the first episode
to gosh let me ask you a lot of people say not
a lot but there are many people myself included
who didn't get into the show until episode three
were you into it like immediately and what do
you think about that you feel free to insult
me it's fine the internet already has oh my gosh
i can never insult my best friend or was it just
No, on threads, people are literally like, if
you didn't like the first two episodes, you don't
understand cinema. I actually tell most of the
people that I try to get in the show, I'm like,
make it to episode three. And I think that there
is beauty in episode one and two. And the folks
that like really like respond well to it are
probably more progressive in the sense that like
watching sexual things in front of other people
doesn't scare them. I think there's like those
first two episodes are going were. Interesting
for a lot of folks because you're seeing gay
sex on TV being the main focal point for two
episodes. And then Scott Hunter comes in, which
we find out in episode five becomes the reason
that enables the first couple, Shane and Ilya,
to get together. And so I think like episode
three is kind of like and also book one starts
with Scott Hunter, too. So it's interesting how
they merge the two. Yeah. So I think I think
it is OK to say get to episode three for some
folks because. They might find discomfort in
seeing a lot of sex. And also the pacing of the
show is new for a lot of folks. It's six episodes
over a decade. Like there's a lot going on in
a short amount of time. So cinematic masterpiece,
the whole thing. I completely agree. But I think
there's reasons to say like it could be uncomfortable
for someone at first. And episode three is a
good jumping off point for people. Yeah. love
sex and watching it on tv like you know i watch
like outlander and only because of the sex not
for historical accuracy of the show even though
i have learned a lot of american history watching
outlander however my point is that like i've
never actually watched gay sex and to me i saw
it and i was like oh interesting and also like
do i like this but but but But I wasn't sure,
like, just to be honest, like I wasn't sure.
And then when I saw Scott and Kip, I'm like,
oh, I do like this because I like them as a couple.
And then when I went back, obviously, to watch
episode one and two, the second time around,
I was like, oh, I really like this. Because now
I like knew them as characters. And I guess I
needed like a little bit more love. Maybe, you
know, perhaps maybe that's what I'm used to.
That's what I've been. you know, that's what
I grew up on, like romance in that respect. Like
I needed it to be a little bit more romance included
with the sex. I'm glad that you I'm glad to hear
you say that because I think not that, you know,
I need any validation. I feel the way I feel.
But I do like I have told people who I recommended
the show to and they like text me. They're like,
oh, I'm not into this. You know, and I'm like,
please just make it to episode three. I promise
it's worth your time. And every single time it's
been that way. Like every single time they're
like, oh, my God, episode three. And then they're
just like. go through it the whole thing so that
is so interesting I mean I love Scott and Kip
but I mean, maybe it's because I read a lot of
romances and like you're it's very clear that
this is not this is like not the stringless relationship
they think it is. You know, to me, it was like
really clear that they were so they were fond
of each other. Right. I love a good friends to
lovers. They were really rivals. Did you ever
hear like people say like it's not rivals to
lovers, it's idiots to lovers. Babies, you're
falling in love. We all see it. I mean, so to
me, that's very interesting because I, too, feel
like I need to have some sort of emotional connection.
I enjoy better watching sexy scenes with that
rather than without, even though it's beautiful
even without, you know, like a well -done sex
scene. But for me, I think I just knew. I was
like, oh, yeah, they're extraordinarily fond
of each other. Right away. Episode one, where
they're in the workout room and they're like
trying to beat each other, like in the amount
of reps that they're doing. And it's like that
rivalry where it's like, it's tension. I just,
the first two episodes growing the tension. I
was like, oh my gosh, I can only be edged for
so long. After episode two, there was no longer
edging. You got to pay off for everything you
got. I love that. So I had a question about that
scene that you were talking about where they
were kind of feeling each other out in the workout
room. How realistic was that from the perspective
of someone who was closeted back then? Oh, gosh,
it's interesting because I think that in a way
it was realistically portrayed. So in some queer
culture, and again, I'm not a monolith, but like
cruising culture. And so thinking about like
bathhouses and saunas and whatnot, there's tells
that you try to do, you try to get closer, you
try to get like some form of contact. There's
a lot of reality in that situation, like how
it relates to like, like how I would try to find
like other folks like me. It's interesting because
I. was growing up in the age of social media
becoming super popular we're thinking about like
2010 2013 era grinder the lovely app what first
came out and so my way of finding other folks
was through these apps and i think to now today
the apps in some way shape or form are where
most people find connections especially for right
now like immediate sex watching the show may
be long for like that type of like romance which
is like running into someone random not knowing
if they're gay or straight but like feeling it
out and it working out that way um because like
my husband i've known since high school I'm one
of those weird moments where it's high school
sweethearts, but he didn't know if he was and
we worked it out over time type things. So I
lucked out in that regard. I married my best
friend. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm not a perfect
person. I've put him through a lot of shit and
he has kept up with me through it. And I'm so
thankful that he's allowed me to grow with him.
But it's one of those things where if I didn't
have that. I probably would be finding some random
hookup. But the apps are truly like a way of
finding folks. I think anymore like that cruising
culture is beginning to fade of like running
into each other at the bathhouse and like locking
eyes and seeing like if one thing will lead to
another. At least it doesn't happen as often
in my friend groups that I hear about. Seems
a lot more difficult, right? Like than getting
on an app and knowing that. Pretty much everyone
on the app is there for the one thing that you
guys all want. But, you know, what I always forget
is that the show is set back in time. Like always
forget. Yeah. Like it is 2008. Right. Yeah. Right.
Exactly. Like you can see the progression of
the phones, et cetera. So they're they're not
in the same place as we are now. I totally agree.
Even no matter what you're seeking, gay, straight,
queer. hetero, whatever it is that you're seeking,
a lot more people now find connections online
first, you know, but that like. thing that they
did where they locked eyes in in the gym especially
like ilia was like seeking he was feeling he
was like feeling him out he definitely was like
if i touch his hand when he touches the water
bottle like will he be like you know or like
he didn't run away right so i think he was and
it felt that i mean i think that maybe made sense
for 2008 you know that kind of at least you know
And I don't know. And something else, too, there
is like with the bisexuality, if it didn't land,
it's no skin off his back because dude bro culture,
too, where it's like I'm going to smack like
my teammates ass or something and whatnot. It's
like it's the code switching that you can get
away with a little bit versus like like if I'm
a gay guy and I'm trying to advance on another
person, I don't know if they're gay or straight.
In 2008. This was before gay marriage was legalized.
This is still at a time where like being gay
wasn't as OK as it is today. And I think I think
honestly, with the acceptance of gayness by especially
women is has allowed that ability for us to be
more open in the world. And I think like one
of the great things about this show is it introduced
a lot of this to. a large group of people, especially
women, that allow maybe some misconceptions about
the gay community to be unwrapped a little bit.
It's like a safe way to get an experience into
the life and world of a gay person. In a safe
space and maybe allow you to reflect and unpack
some things. OK, you you bring up a good point.
And so I've seen some criticism about the fact
that these books are written by supposedly by
a straight woman and consumed. I don't want to
say primarily because I don't know if that's
true, but a lot of straight women are watching
this show. And there's some criticism from the
queer community. Is this like a fetish for straight
women? Like, does it actually like represent?
the queer community well. It was also directed
by a gay man. So I know that like adds another
layer to it. What are your thoughts about that?
Yeah, I also have heard and seen the criticism,
but my stance on it is art is art is for everybody
and how you analyze it is personal to you. So
the books were made by a woman, presumably, we'll
say presumably straight, could be queer. Because
queer is a broad spectrum. And this media getting
out has touched the lives of many queer people,
myself included. And I think that stories can
be told just like how like in the very beginning
of this, I said I was there was a gay character
played by a straight man. I think that that can
be OK. It's how you go about like presenting
it, doing your research on like what it is to
be like that, because like. Being gay and queer,
there's so many different avenues. Like as a
white gay man, I'm going to have a different
experience than a black gay man or a trans person.
So there's so many different experiences that
can happen in queerness. But I think that this
show has done so much good for representation.
It did not follow the dark trope of killing off
characters. And so it's like these are stories.
Stories are for everybody and how you process
it and how you internalize it, how you reflect
on it is uniquely personal. So as a straight
woman watching the show, I think that there's
a lot that you can take from it that would be
different than what a gay person might or a queer
person might take from it. And I think that is
OK. But what you do with that information or
try to perpetuate onto others, that's where it
becomes problematic. I think it's important,
if you don't mind, that we do talk about Ilya
being bi. Because, you know, from what I understand
in the queer community, there's a lot of people
that complain about like bi erasure. Right. Like
we don't really hear a lot from about bi characters.
Do you want to talk about that? There's a lot
of icky. I feel surrounding bisexuality. And
when I say icky, I mean like stereotypes, perceptions
and whatnot. So my husband is bisexual and like
I worked a lot through some of like my insecurities
by talking to him about it. One of the great
things that we do is communicate and over communicate
to points, but it helps us with our relationship.
But I really appreciated. the way that they handled
ilia's bisexuality especially when he mentioned
like well not i'm not gay not fully there's always
like this perception of like okay so if a bisexual
person marries a certain gender they're no longer
really about the other and like no that is definitely
not the case like my husband like because like
like whenever we're like falling over people
i'll be like oh my gosh like this one guy oh
my god so hot and he'll be like oh yeah no this
is one woman absolutely stunning goddess i'm
like slay like that's great and i try to pull
him up a little bit because there's like this
unfair expectation on him that it's like i want
him to be more expressive about his sexuality
and it's allowed me to like process like my queerness
my gayness and even masculinity to point bisexuality
is like bi erasure is something that happens
often without even thinking about it and I was
always so scared, like, oh, will he leave me
for a woman? Like, will I not be good enough
or whatnot? Because I was the first man he's
ever been with and the only man he has ever been
with. I'm like the miracle one. And so like in
the very early phases of like my marriage or
not marriage, but my relationship with him, I
was like, oh my gosh, do I have to do extra?
Like, will I lose him? And then like, I unpacked
those misconceptions. Like he'll always. validate
me and be like no I'm with you for a reason and
that reason is because I love you like sex aside
and it also allowed me an opportunity to ask
him about straight sex that's really interesting
when Shane and Ilya are at the cottage and Ilya
brings up I could marry Svetlana right Shane
is obviously head over heels in love with Ilya
at this point and the moment Ilya says like I
could marry Svetlana and Shane is like But you
like women, right? I think that Shane has insecurities
about dating or being with a bi man because at
any point he's like, well, he could just leave
me for Svetlana or any of the other gorgeous
women that surround him. I guarantee you Shane
was also thinking he could also be with a woman
and have a much easier life because Shane obviously
loves Ilya at that point, too, where it's like
he could. be able to not worry about all the
things in Russia. He could live a very easy life,
happy life with a woman and not have to worry
about anything. I guarantee you he was thinking
about that. Yeah. Like even in that club scene,
the chemistry with Rose is like, it's just like
bopping. And then you see Ilya's chemistry with
the random woman. And he's like, you want to
play this game? Look at me. I win. I win. But
he was pulling it off, right? Like, and Shane
can't. What was your favorite part? Like, what
was your favorite scene? My favorite scene is
the bar scene. All the things she said. I love
a dramatic moment. The music and everything was
great. The cinematography was great. Everything
about it was great. When I'm at the bar and I'm
very drunk, I want that moment where I see someone
from across the room. and lock eyes and have
that dramatic moment. And I've had that moment
a lot of times in bars that end up usually leading
though to me making out with that said person
versus like this, we're grinding on different
people to try to make each other more jealous
to just like build the tension where I'm like,
oh, now maybe I want to try that. The interesting
thing about that being my favorite scene, it
is a scene that my husband can't watch. There's
a lot of things about it that are triggering.
The jealousy aspect of it. We didn't talk about
this, but also there's the idea of the beard
and being with a woman when you're with a man
on the side because you can't tell anybody. And
so there's a lot of things that bring back bad
memories about it. My favorite scene is something
that I can only share every so often. But he
said that to me the other day and I sat with
that and I was like, I can see why. I totally
understand. My stomach swoops every time I watch
that scene. I love the swoop. But you know what?
That flip that you just did about what it could
mean to someone where that doesn't feel good.
I never thought of it and I can see that actually.
trauma like as you said like if rose was not
as supportive who knows what would have been
what that would have been like you know for shane
too i always feel like every time we talk there's
something new like something i'm like oh i thought
of this you know and that's what makes it art
right mason Thank you so much for joining us
today. Thank you for having me. I had a blast.
I feel like I needed a second to just sit with
that because what always shifts me after a conversation
like this is that it's a reminder that representation
just doesn't land the same way for... everyone,
right? For us, we look at the show, we see it
as art, we see it as craft, structure, you know,
we see the cinematography, the needle drops,
the narrative pacing, all these other things.
But for someone else watching it, like they're
recognizing pieces of themselves and their own
lives. And that's like different, you know, and
I'm so happy we had this interview together.
You know, there are elements of the show. that
resonate like that for all of us, right? Like,
I think I said this in the immigrant episode
or even the neurodivergence episode. Beauty of
the show is that not every topic becomes, oh,
that's such a very special episode of Peter rivalry.
I mean, it sounds strange, but you know what
I mean? It's like just kind of in the show. It
permeates the show. It just exists in the show.
I think that's what lends itself to sort of.
some of what Mason was saying at the end taps
into that human experience. But there are going
to be elements of the show that will always...
more resonate with someone's actual lived experience.
And I just loved hearing how it resonated for
Mason. I like the fact that the characters on
the show are not like, you know, flattened into
symbols. They're not like cautionary tales, as
we discussed, right? Like they're not here to
represent the entire community. I think that
kind of like dimensionality is not often given
in queer storytelling, but like we're getting
it here. That is such a good point, you know,
because they're allowed to be assholes. or boring,
or hockey players, or any of those things. And
they're not representing anyone but themselves
because at the baseline, it is a very intimate
story about two people, right? Like these external
elements exist, but you're not watching it that
way. It's trying not to be like this beacon of
representation, but by not trying, it becomes
that. Do you know what I mean? It's like a...
It's like a soft representation, you know, like
in a way that like you can see like many, many
can see themselves in it, you know? Yeah. Because
at the end of the day, everyone deserves sunshine.
So do you want to do you want to move into our
moment of the sunshine of the week? Thanks for
asking this remarkable question. So my moment
of sunshine was actually we spent an overnight
with my kids and my husband. in Philly. And that's
the first time we've done that. And it was really
fun. It was a short enough trip to feel like
we didn't have to pack our house to travel with
kids. But it was far enough away that it felt
like an escape. We went to the Beauty and the
Beast musical. I loved it. But my son said it
was the worst part of the weekend. We stayed
at the W on the 40th floor. My kids were fascinated
by the floor -to -ceiling windows. And then we
had breakfast in a place that had like 8 ,000
different types of French toast. And then we
went to the Franklin Museum, which is really
fun. The Franklin Institute? Yes. The Franklin
Institute. Yes, yes. The Franklin Institute.
You could tell you don't go to Philly often.
I know. We just don't. Someone told me Philly
is so fun. Someone. Just a random person. This
boring person told me. Actually, she was right
about this one. No, you're the boring one. I'm
the asshole. Get it right. Get it right. So it
was really fun. So my moment of sunshine is something
very nice and sweet about our mutual friends.
The woman who introduced me to Mason, our guest
today, is a very dear friend. I'm super grateful
to her. And she's super supportive of this podcast.
And Anusha, she's always texting us, right? In
like a group text as if she's like having a conversation
with us while we're doing this podcast. Also,
she's my friend also. Just by eye, just letting
everybody know. And she is a wonderful human
being. And I cannot wait to hear what she has
to say about this episode. Next week on Everyone
Deserves Sunshine, we're talking about how art
inspires art. So subscribe now wherever you get
your podcasts. And if you want to say hi to the
girls in the crease, find us on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at EveryoneDeservesSunshine. And
email us at EveryoneDeservesSunshine at gmail
.com. Because we love your emails, new episodes
drop on Mondays. See you then.