WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080 Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine, I'm Diana. 00:00:02.339 --> 00:00:04.660 And I'm Anusha. We're the girls in the crease. 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:08.160 Anusha, so I realized this past week that I have 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:11.380 even less self -control than I thought I had, 00:00:11.500 --> 00:00:14.699 which is already very little. I swore to myself 00:00:14.699 --> 00:00:17.460 and to everyone else that I will not, I will 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:22.399 not read any of the books. I remember. Well, 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:24.140 I didn't want to spoil it for myself for season 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:28.079 two, but then what had happened was... I kept 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:32.240 seeing spoilers on threads and on Insta. And 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.759 at some point I was like, okay, well, it's either 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.579 going to get spoiled by other people or I can 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:42.140 read it myself. And they are very good books. 00:00:42.299 --> 00:00:44.780 Oh my God, they are so good. So I have already 00:00:44.780 --> 00:00:48.479 read Heated Rivalry, Game Changers, and Role 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.320 Models. Somebody said you have to read Role Models 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:53.859 first because they intersect a lot. So I finished 00:00:53.859 --> 00:00:56.960 all of those books, each book. per day because 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.880 I couldn't stop. But now that I am here with 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:01.840 The Long Game, my best friend and I are reading 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.640 it together and we have decided we will savor 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:07.739 every single word, every single period because 00:01:07.739 --> 00:01:10.159 we don't want it to ever, ever end. And so we 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:14.040 have set a limit to three chapters a day, which 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.079 is honestly killing me because I'll read the 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.620 three chapters and I'm addicted. I'm jonesing 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:22.859 for it all day long. And I'm also terrified to 00:01:22.859 --> 00:01:25.000 get heartbroken. So I'm taking it really slowly, 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:26.730 but I'm already... heartbroken. First of all, 00:01:26.730 --> 00:01:29.189 I'm so excited for you that you're reading the 00:01:29.189 --> 00:01:32.950 books. Second, I also am reading everything entirely 00:01:32.950 --> 00:01:36.569 out of order. So I understand the first way you're 00:01:36.569 --> 00:01:39.150 reading books, but my God, the way you're describing 00:01:39.150 --> 00:01:42.049 reading the long game is like completely impossible 00:01:42.049 --> 00:01:45.269 for me to understand because once I start a book, 00:01:45.430 --> 00:01:47.769 I can't stop until it's done. I have to tell 00:01:47.769 --> 00:01:50.329 you a little story. So one of my dear college 00:01:50.329 --> 00:01:53.750 friends would like read a few. chapters a day 00:01:53.750 --> 00:01:57.469 or write a few pages of her senior thesis a day. 00:01:57.569 --> 00:02:00.530 And I was so jealous because I would watch her 00:02:00.530 --> 00:02:02.370 work and it was like watching an alien because 00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:06.189 I was not able to have that degree of self -discipline 00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:09.689 at all. So that is not how I work. That is not 00:02:09.689 --> 00:02:12.610 how I read. That has a lot to do with my ADHD. 00:02:13.110 --> 00:02:15.509 Wow. That was a really good setup for our show, 00:02:15.590 --> 00:02:19.449 Anusha. I try. I do try. All right. You do. You 00:02:19.449 --> 00:02:21.409 really are great at this. Okay, everyone. This 00:02:21.409 --> 00:02:24.300 is episode... Girls in the Crease talk about 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:27.189 neurodivergence. Before we get started, I do 00:02:27.189 --> 00:02:29.710 want to make it really clear what we're doing 00:02:29.710 --> 00:02:33.090 here. We're not armchair diagnosing. The writers, 00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:36.069 the actors, the director all confirm that Shane 00:02:36.069 --> 00:02:38.590 is neurodivergent. What we're talking about today 00:02:38.590 --> 00:02:41.469 is the coding in the show and how neurodivergence 00:02:41.469 --> 00:02:44.150 shows up in behavior, pacing, communications, 00:02:44.469 --> 00:02:47.349 and relationships. For a lot of viewers with 00:02:47.349 --> 00:02:50.129 autism, this wasn't like a reveal. And I've seen 00:02:50.129 --> 00:02:52.740 a lot of commentary about it online. So we're 00:02:52.740 --> 00:02:55.219 not sitting here doing a diagnostic checklist. 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.699 Yes, not doing that. Right, we're not doing that. 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:01.360 And like Rachel Reed has talked about it pretty 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:03.800 openly. She said that when she wrote Heated Virally, 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:05.819 she wasn't really consciously thinking like, 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:07.860 oh, OK, I'm writing this like autistic character. 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:10.460 But then later, after going through the long 00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:12.639 and complicated process of getting her oldest 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.500 son diagnosis, she looked back and realized like, 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:17.560 oh, yeah, like Shane is probably autistic because 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:19.919 she was writing him as what she knew, right, 00:03:20.060 --> 00:03:23.139 in her own son. And Hudson Williams said his 00:03:23.139 --> 00:03:26.080 actual real life dad is on the spectrum. He talks 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:29.319 about his dad's sensitivities and how connected 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.719 he feels to him and how that has informed his 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.520 own performance as Shane. When Hudson Williams 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.659 was looking at the script, he immediately saw 00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:39.479 what he needed to do. And he empathized with 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.439 the characters because of his own dad. Yeah. 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:45.539 Yeah. I did read that about Hudson's father being 00:03:45.539 --> 00:03:49.159 on the spectrum. So Hudson has said he has ADHD. 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.439 And I think this sort of ADHD wiring, it comes 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.379 with, I call it pattern recognition on steroids. 00:03:56.419 --> 00:03:59.139 And a lot of it, at least in sort of my experience 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:02.379 of having ADHD, is this intuitive understanding 00:04:02.379 --> 00:04:05.780 of social and emotional patterns, reading people. 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:09.719 And I can see how combined with Hudson's experiences 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.020 being with his dad, how that would help Hudson 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:16.829 bring Shane. who has been described as sort of 00:04:16.829 --> 00:04:20.449 a very internal character to life. And I also 00:04:20.449 --> 00:04:23.990 want to add that I love that you said your caveat 00:04:23.990 --> 00:04:26.730 about not an armchair diagnosis in the beginning. 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:29.370 I wanted to add something else to that because... 00:04:29.790 --> 00:04:33.170 Shane's portrayal is one experience of autism. 00:04:33.350 --> 00:04:37.069 He's verbal. He's a high performer. He has support 00:04:37.069 --> 00:04:40.689 systems. He can mask when it's needed. But this 00:04:40.689 --> 00:04:43.889 is not the only autistic experience. There are 00:04:43.889 --> 00:04:46.670 autistic people who have higher support needs, 00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:49.490 whose experiences aren't shown in the show. And 00:04:49.490 --> 00:04:52.269 I don't want to erase that reality as a neurodivergent 00:04:52.269 --> 00:04:55.089 person. person myself and as a pediatrician, 00:04:55.089 --> 00:04:57.949 to me, saying that is really important. But I 00:04:57.949 --> 00:05:00.170 also think it's okay to discuss this flavor of 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:02.889 neurodivergence, what it does well, what it means 00:05:02.889 --> 00:05:06.410 to us, and still give space to that fact that 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:09.540 this isn't. encompassing of the entire autistic 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:12.920 spectrum. And that's OK. That's OK. I just wanted 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:14.600 to acknowledge that, though. You're right. And 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.459 like this portrayal is not meant to stand in 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.579 for all autism, obviously. Right. But it is meaningful 00:05:19.579 --> 00:05:22.199 that we're finally seeing an autistic character 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:24.699 who is competent, desired, emotionally deep. 00:05:24.980 --> 00:05:27.720 Right. And not like framed as a problem that 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:29.600 needs to be solved or a lesson to be learned. 00:05:29.819 --> 00:05:33.100 Tell me, Diana, when did it occur to you that 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:35.240 Shane was autistic? Was there like a moment, 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.399 you know? It's interesting because people we're 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.399 friends with, they know that we're doing this 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.100 episode on neurodivergence. So many of them were 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:46.000 like, but is he autistic? And so a lot of people 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.379 didn't actually notice that he was autistic because 00:05:49.379 --> 00:05:50.660 they're like, well, is he actually autistic? 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.100 Or are you guys like diagnosing him yourselves? 00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:57.279 You know, I have many, many, many neurodivergent 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:00.540 people in my life. As a teacher too, like I am 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:02.560 very quickly to pick up on these things. But 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:06.829 with Shane, I immediately... The very first moment 00:06:06.829 --> 00:06:10.449 where he and Ilya are going to have their very 00:06:10.449 --> 00:06:14.370 first sexual encounter. And Shane very neatly 00:06:14.370 --> 00:06:16.769 folds his clothes. Now, listen, when you're having 00:06:16.769 --> 00:06:19.689 like a hot sexual event happen. And you're first. 00:06:19.949 --> 00:06:22.670 Right. You're first. And it's like so hot. And 00:06:22.670 --> 00:06:24.410 it already had started, right? They already made 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:27.379 out. He already. Gave him a blowjob. Right. So 00:06:27.379 --> 00:06:30.459 so they're in the middle of it. And this boy 00:06:30.459 --> 00:06:33.860 like takes his pants and like neatly folds them 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:36.740 over the couch. And like you could see Ilya like 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:39.459 look at him and smile. To me, like that scene 00:06:39.459 --> 00:06:43.480 right there was like, oh, baby. I felt the same 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.939 way as Ilya. Like, look at this boy. Like, he's 00:06:45.939 --> 00:06:47.959 so sweet. Like, look at how he folds his clothes. 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.660 At that point, I was like, maybe like because 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:53.589 again, like we're not used to seeing it. like 00:06:53.589 --> 00:06:56.490 presented so gently right like and so and I'm 00:06:56.490 --> 00:06:58.470 like no it's just me being a teacher and then 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:00.740 I'm like Wait a second. When he can't sleep in 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:03.279 his hotel room in the very beginning and he goes 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:06.079 to the gym in the evening, he makes his bed too. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.339 I saw that and then I kept getting reinforcement 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:10.620 like, all right, I'm not nuts. I understand what's 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:13.000 happening here. It's very subtle. It's very lovely. 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.120 But it is there. It's definitely present. And 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:18.899 also now that I've, as everybody knows, I'm reading 00:07:18.899 --> 00:07:20.720 the books and I'm not giving anything away. But 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.379 in the books, it's even more obvious that he's 00:07:23.379 --> 00:07:27.740 definitely neurodivergent. So interesting that 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:30.180 you said that moment, because I think one of 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:33.660 the things about Jacob Tyranny and Hudson and 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:36.000 all the people involved and Rachel Reed was a 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.620 producer, too, on the show is that you realize 00:07:38.620 --> 00:07:42.699 how intentional each direction is. You know what 00:07:42.699 --> 00:07:45.199 I mean? Like you go back and you're like, they 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.839 didn't accidentally put in that folding of pants 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:54.660 scene. So I can see how that moment. clicked 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:58.040 something in your head for me because I watched 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:02.060 this in like the depth of night under my blankets 00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:05.439 and I watched so many episodes in a row and like 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.660 a complete vacuum I think um it was like the 00:08:08.660 --> 00:08:12.540 overall gestalt after seeing Shane on the screen 00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:17.060 for a while I feel like I was um I feel like 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:20.120 I was in the middle before I knew it began, which, 00:08:20.180 --> 00:08:22.560 by the way, is a quote from Pride and Prejudice. 00:08:22.579 --> 00:08:24.639 Of course, I would connect Mr. Darcy and Shane 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:28.139 Hollander. But but in retrospect, I will say 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:31.319 that the show actually actually like very much 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:34.259 sets the stage for this early in episode one. 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.080 So when that hockey announcer says he may not 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.899 be the most sociable, but this is the kid with 00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:43.879 the highest hockey IQ out there clocked. You're 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:47.159 like, boom, there it is. Set up, set up, right? 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.500 I feel like that line does so much work because 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:52.879 it establishes that Shane processed the world 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.080 differently. He strategizes the game differently. 00:08:56.179 --> 00:08:58.779 And that's meant to be brilliant. Like that's 00:08:58.779 --> 00:09:01.279 what gives him his competitive edge. In that 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.100 same line says the social stuff is harder. Yes. 00:09:04.139 --> 00:09:07.600 And I think that that thread of the hockey obsession 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.919 sort of goes the entire way through the series. 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:14.919 And the books. Because Shane reads only hockey 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:16.960 books. You know, it's the hockey books on his 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:19.519 nightstand. He reads nothing else. He has this 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:23.019 deep special interest that becomes an expertise. 00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:25.980 Yeah, that's a pretty classic autistic trait. 00:09:26.259 --> 00:09:28.840 Pretty classic. I know. When I went back for 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:32.129 my... Second rewatch. And I heard that line again. 00:09:32.210 --> 00:09:34.590 I'm like, oh, oh, you were right here the whole 00:09:34.590 --> 00:09:38.870 time. You were here, you know. And like, once 00:09:38.870 --> 00:09:40.730 you start noticing it, you see it everywhere. 00:09:40.830 --> 00:09:43.330 Their first, you know, encounter, Ilya comes 00:09:43.330 --> 00:09:44.669 in and he's like, I thought you were going to 00:09:44.669 --> 00:09:46.549 chicken out. And Shane is like, I'm not a chicken. 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:50.470 So literal, you know. When he's doing the interview 00:09:50.470 --> 00:09:53.769 in French, right? Mr. Perfect in French. Yeah. 00:09:53.929 --> 00:09:55.830 And then the reporter asks him, you're being 00:09:55.830 --> 00:09:58.110 compared to Serena Williams and Tiger Woods. 00:09:58.210 --> 00:09:59.720 Do you agree with that? that or whatever. And 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:01.639 he's like, I don't think about stuff like that. 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:04.179 And I remember he doesn't. And he's not being 00:10:04.179 --> 00:10:06.600 humble. It's just not how his brain works. Like 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:07.960 he doesn't think about stuff like that. Right. 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:11.019 His communication is explicit, literal and precise. 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.480 And this is where I really want to pause because 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.679 that seems to get misunderstood often. But literalism 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:19.519 is not lack of intelligence or lack of emotional 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.080 depth. It's just a different processing style. 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.659 He's actually just taking people at their word 00:10:24.659 --> 00:10:27.759 and very much face. Yeah. Yeah. What you see 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:31.379 is what you get. OK, can I add another hilarious 00:10:31.379 --> 00:10:34.159 moment to this list of moments we're collecting? 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.840 So in episode four, when Hayden tells Shane his 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.600 wife Jackie is pregnant with their fourth child 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.460 and Shane just in complete disbelief goes again. 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:49.179 And Hayden is like, holy shit, dude, you have 00:10:49.179 --> 00:10:52.179 to work on your lying. Shane does not have that 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:55.279 capacity to lie, especially when it comes to 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.919 these like off the cuff moments. Right. And it's 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.759 so hilarious because it's so honest. He's not 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:03.740 trying to be rude. There's no malice in it. I 00:11:03.740 --> 00:11:06.100 feel like in the hands of someone else, it could 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:08.600 be read as judgmental. But with Shane, it's just 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:11.259 the sort of the earnestness you describe, you 00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:13.019 know, just taking everyone at what they say, 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:17.009 face value. One of the things I also loved about 00:11:17.009 --> 00:11:20.490 that scene is it gives you a glimpse into Hayden 00:11:20.490 --> 00:11:23.710 and Shane's friendship because Hayden laughs. 00:11:23.929 --> 00:11:27.129 He's not offended at all. And he kind of loves 00:11:27.129 --> 00:11:30.389 him for it. He knows Shane at this point, even 00:11:30.389 --> 00:11:32.750 when it's awkward, maybe especially when it's 00:11:32.750 --> 00:11:35.350 awkward. It's endearing to him. And I loved that. 00:11:35.659 --> 00:11:38.139 friendship development between someone who is 00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:41.600 coded as being autistic and the relationships. 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:43.700 I think the show did that really well. But that 00:11:43.700 --> 00:11:45.759 moment really struck me. I think it's such a 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:48.240 beautiful moment between those two friends. And 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.139 there's so many other ways that the show depicts 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:53.840 Shane's neurodivergence without announcing it. 00:11:53.899 --> 00:11:56.759 He doesn't get flirting much, unless it's like 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.100 very explicit. He takes jokes literally. He does 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:03.860 ask clarifying questions often instead of trying 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:07.100 to infer. Because he realizes that he needs certain 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:11.480 structure and certain needs met for him to truly 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.639 understand. And listen, he follows instructions 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:17.899 exactly the way they are from from the get on 00:12:17.899 --> 00:12:22.820 your knees. And then he just drops, just drops, 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.299 totally drops to you make eight burgers. And 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:28.759 this is the recipe. So you're going to make exactly 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.120 eight burgers. Why don't you cut it in half? 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:33.950 And that like that follows instructions piece 00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:36.450 is like so important. It's safety. Like, you 00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:39.309 know, the precision is calming. Right. Ambiguity 00:12:39.309 --> 00:12:41.149 for him is like distressful. Like he doesn't 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:43.850 like it. It makes him feel uncomfortable. Yeah. 00:12:44.009 --> 00:12:47.289 And also the instructions are meant to be like 00:12:47.289 --> 00:12:49.970 they're meant to be their instructions. You're 00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:51.470 supposed to follow them. You know, it's like 00:12:51.470 --> 00:12:55.320 not just calming. It's also. kind of his baseline. 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.539 That's what you do. That's what you do. I mean, 00:12:57.580 --> 00:13:00.419 to be honest, I also make recipes like this. 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.080 I will follow the instructions to a T. I don't 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:04.740 know how to double it. I don't know how to half 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.220 it. But I think that's my math problem more than 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:10.279 anything. Same here. I'm not going to blame that 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.940 one on my neurodivergence. That's a math issue. 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:14.919 That's a math issue. But for Shane, it's not. 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:17.279 I have a feeling he's very good at math, you 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:18.940 know, because he's so smart. But anyway, what 00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:20.700 we're talking about is coding, right? The show 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:23.639 is depicting sensory overload, flat affect, processing. 00:13:23.789 --> 00:13:26.210 time, masking anxiety. And what makes Shane's 00:13:26.210 --> 00:13:28.370 neurodivergence feel so real is that none of 00:13:28.370 --> 00:13:30.769 it's announced. It's just embedded into everything 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:32.950 he does because that's how it is in real life. 00:13:33.210 --> 00:13:35.870 And so his on -screen presence handles with so 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:38.169 much care and so much love. We don't usually 00:13:38.169 --> 00:13:40.649 see neurodivergent characters like that. And 00:13:40.649 --> 00:13:43.129 he's just allowed to be Shane, not Shane with 00:13:43.129 --> 00:13:45.769 autism. Even Shane doesn't know that. Absolutely. 00:13:46.049 --> 00:13:49.570 And I agree with you 100 % that the show portrays 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:52.970 Shane with such nuance. I mean, I think the list 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:55.000 Listeners are going to be tired of hearing the 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.580 word nuance. But I mean, we use it all the time. 00:13:57.580 --> 00:13:59.820 Yeah, we say it all the time. It's a great word, 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:01.740 though. Like it's a very pretty word. It rolls 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:04.120 off your tongue quite nicely. It does. And it's 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.659 so perfect for the show because sometimes I feel 00:14:06.659 --> 00:14:09.840 like you get this trope of a weird genius or 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.139 sort of deficit based. Right. That's that's what 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:16.720 you get. And this one is not. pathologizing. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.360 I think what you're saying, it's just very humanizing, 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.220 you know, just a human experience. And like you 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:25.759 said in the beginning, this professional lens 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.600 that we have, it's really hard to take off, but 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.759 I'm trying to undo some of that for myself. So 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.659 let's talk about how this very clinical way facial 00:14:34.659 --> 00:14:37.240 expression is sometimes talked about in autistic 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.860 folks, right? Sometimes it's called like a blunted 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:42.679 affect or restricted affect. And it's really 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:46.820 a clinical phrase because divergence was a medical 00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:51.379 pathology not that long ago. Right. Right. And 00:14:51.379 --> 00:14:54.419 now we're talking about it as a variation on 00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:57.519 existence, really, at least in some ways and 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.240 not minimizing support needs, et cetera. But 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.620 again, it's like this like very clinical way 00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:07.379 of looking at someone. I feel like it frames 00:15:07.379 --> 00:15:11.019 it as though emotional expressiveness is missing. 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:14.799 But my husband is autistic and he gave me permission 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:17.259 to sort of share this aspect of him because it 00:15:17.259 --> 00:15:19.620 just informs so much of our mutual existence 00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:22.220 together. When people converse, their face is 00:15:22.220 --> 00:15:24.460 sort of like part of that social communication. 00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:26.899 It's almost like a billboard. You're nodding, 00:15:26.899 --> 00:15:29.399 you're smiling, you're moving your head, you're 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.519 talking with your hands, which I'm doing right 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.799 now. But my husband says that when he is talking 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.860 to someone else, it takes focus and energy and 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:44.309 processing. resources to understand the complexity 00:15:44.309 --> 00:15:47.450 of these social interactions. It takes him actual 00:15:47.450 --> 00:15:49.769 energy. And I don't notice that, you know, for 00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:52.649 myself. And so he has this sometimes socially 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:56.490 neutral face. And that's especially true when 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.809 I'm radiating emotion, like when I'm hopped up 00:16:00.809 --> 00:16:03.409 and hyped up. He like regulates himself because 00:16:03.409 --> 00:16:06.769 you're so up there. Yeah. And he's trying to 00:16:06.769 --> 00:16:09.509 actually. think about what I'm feeling during 00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.909 these moments, his face becomes neutral is what 00:16:12.909 --> 00:16:15.509 I was thinking of calling it. But it's not the 00:16:15.509 --> 00:16:18.809 reduced capacity of emotions because both my 00:16:18.809 --> 00:16:21.129 husband and Shane, you can see they're just such 00:16:21.129 --> 00:16:24.389 deeply feeling people. It's just that when you 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:27.049 add the social piece, there's all this background 00:16:27.049 --> 00:16:29.809 noise, the eye contact, the expectation, the 00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:33.289 subtext that we non -autistic people doesn't 00:16:33.289 --> 00:16:35.789 even occur to us that these things are happening. 00:16:35.870 --> 00:16:39.440 It's just part of sort of our baseline. So it's 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.120 just been really fascinating, complicated to 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:44.639 learn all this in real life. And I think seeing 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.200 it on the show, it meant a lot to me. Hudson 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.600 has this thing he said about Shane, about the 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.360 scene in the cottage on the couch where they're 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:57.460 talking about the future. When he wants to kill 00:16:57.460 --> 00:17:00.799 Ilya, when Ilya says, could marry Svetlana. And 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.960 Shane's like, I could murder you right now in 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.720 this cottage. No one knows you're here. Exactly. 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:08.039 Exactly. That scene. We've talked about this 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.380 sort of like how Shane almost wells up his eyes 00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:15.359 with tears, but the tears don't fall. Glorious 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.380 acting. Glorious. How does that happen? Hudson 00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:22.900 said that was a specific acting choice. He said 00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:25.180 Shane's tears aren't really falling. They're 00:17:25.180 --> 00:17:28.279 just welling up. It almost feels like Shane has 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.960 this notion that if you let the tears fall, now 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.400 you're crying. But if you don't let them fall. 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:36.259 My stomach hurts just thinking about that. Right? 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:39.079 Right? Oh, so beautiful. But if you let them 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.019 fall, Jacob Tyranny said something like, Shane 00:17:42.019 --> 00:17:46.400 does not know how expressive he is. He just doesn't. 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:49.400 It's like he thinks he's masking better than 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:53.579 he actually is. Right. You know? Because he can't 00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:56.660 see his own face. He can't. And he's just so 00:17:56.660 --> 00:18:00.400 deeply feeling. At the end of the day, Shane 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.420 is just beautifully varied in his expressiveness 00:18:03.420 --> 00:18:06.059 based on the context. In that context, it was 00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:09.259 just Ilya, the cottage. He was deeply safe. And 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:12.859 I feel like the fact that Jacob and Hudson really 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:16.460 got that is just unbelievable. It's like a chef's 00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:21.150 kiss. It's such sophisticated. an authentic and 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:24.170 gentle representation. I love that you used the 00:18:24.170 --> 00:18:25.910 word sophisticated because that's literally what 00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:28.529 it is. It is so sophisticated. It's so beautiful. 00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:32.250 It's so well done. Shane is, you can read all 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:34.690 the emotions in his face most of the time. You 00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:37.450 really can. And that's beautiful. And episode 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:39.369 five was such a good example of that because 00:18:39.369 --> 00:18:42.210 he feels so deeply without broadcasting it in 00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:44.210 the way that we're used to seeing on TV, right? 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:47.710 Also the part where he comes out to Rose and 00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:51.839 he's so... emotionally controlled right yet you 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.400 could see that he's feeling so much at that point 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:58.019 like and there's also this internal shift for 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:00.640 him he hits a tipping point and he acts right 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:03.660 and while he doesn't emote expansively he just 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:06.900 makes precise decisive moves with his facial 00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:09.940 expressions and his eyes and like tears same 00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:12.720 thing in that moment the tears don't quite fall 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.660 right and it's not coldness. You can never say 00:19:15.660 --> 00:19:17.839 he's cold. That moment, he kind of understands 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.539 he can't hide anymore. He's being explicitly 00:19:20.539 --> 00:19:23.759 asked, are you gay? And the funny thing is, like, 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.200 she tries to go about it in a different way, 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:28.140 right? In the very beginning. She's like, so 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:30.539 did you notice that Miles is gay? And then she 00:19:30.539 --> 00:19:32.940 goes, you know what? I think I'm going about 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:34.700 this the wrong way. And she immediately goes, 00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:36.779 OK, you know what? This is not working. This 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.680 is not working. I need to be a little bit more 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.160 explicit with this man. This show makes it very 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.259 easy for us to have like brilliant insights. 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.619 It's really great. Well, I mean, you know, it's 00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:49.099 just a brilliant show. So it's really easy to 00:19:49.099 --> 00:19:51.519 talk about it in the context of really anything. 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.740 The themes! The themes! I love reading other 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:57.579 people's thoughts, not just my own, obviously. 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.059 And it was this man, David Samuel Levinson. And 00:20:01.059 --> 00:20:04.460 he said, for a lot of us who grew up different, 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:06.920 that wasn't part of the norm. I think heated 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.839 rivalry hits us much more deeply because the 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.940 whole show is about being seen and not just being 00:20:12.940 --> 00:20:16.140 seen, but being accepted, not just being tolerated, 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.380 but being accepted for who you are. That's the 00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:22.900 power of the show. And so someone shared that. 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:25.680 within their own context and basically talked 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.579 about how autistic viewers feel about the show 00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:31.759 and why they react so strongly. Not because the 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.140 show told them something new, but because it 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.759 trusted them to recognize themselves in it, you 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.200 know? Shows and movies tend to reduce neurodivergent 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.259 characters to cliches, right? And make it the 00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:45.839 entire personality of that specific character. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.240 But Shane is just himself. He has anxiety. He's 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.180 a little socially awkward. People have to literally 00:20:50.180 --> 00:20:52.500 beg him to hang out with him. That is refreshing. 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:54.539 And I also think it's really refreshing to see 00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:57.059 this intersection between masculinity to this 00:20:57.059 --> 00:21:00.069 neurodivergent coding, right? OK, tell me what 00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:02.509 you mean. Right. So Shane's neurodivergent traits 00:21:02.509 --> 00:21:05.089 are not softened to make him more palatable. 00:21:05.369 --> 00:21:09.009 He's still desired. He's respected. Right. He's 00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:11.970 emotionally steady and he's pretty sexually confident 00:21:11.970 --> 00:21:14.390 in his own way. Maybe not the way others think 00:21:14.390 --> 00:21:17.410 is, but he is. Right. The fact that he literally. 00:21:18.089 --> 00:21:21.650 First time he meets Ilya for an encounter, gets 00:21:21.650 --> 00:21:24.609 down on his knees immediately. That's got to 00:21:24.609 --> 00:21:26.410 be some confidence right there because like, 00:21:26.490 --> 00:21:29.029 you know, he doesn't know. He doesn't. He's never 00:21:29.029 --> 00:21:33.349 done it. And he doesn't perform masculinity because 00:21:33.349 --> 00:21:36.190 he can't. He doesn't know how. He can't perform 00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:38.950 much, but he's still chosen. And I love that. 00:21:39.309 --> 00:21:41.809 I love everything. That's a really good point. 00:21:43.470 --> 00:21:45.710 You don't want to ever leave. You never, never 00:21:45.710 --> 00:21:48.170 want to leave. I don't. I don't. I'm very happy 00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:51.309 here. Yeah. I actually really, really, really 00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.809 love that you said that because I feel like sometimes 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:57.809 when you're coded in an autistic way or neurodivergent 00:21:57.809 --> 00:21:59.970 way, it's sort of like it becomes like you're 00:21:59.970 --> 00:22:04.069 not as masculine, you know, and this does not. 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:06.940 do that at all it just presents different ways 00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:10.440 i i totally totally agree with that and here's 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.539 an one other really interesting thing that the 00:22:13.539 --> 00:22:16.839 show does it never actually says shane is autistic 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:20.619 and i just really really feel like that works 00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:22.839 because there's this thread in the whole show 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.160 that sometimes you don't need that categorical 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:28.779 vocabulary to present your experience here's 00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:32.099 what i mean by that When Ilya says, I'm not gay, 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.599 not completely, he's not using sort of categorical 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.539 language. He's just kind of telling you what 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:41.359 he feels like his life experience is. And then 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.519 when Shane comes out to his parents and his dad's 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.420 like, well, Ilya, I thought you were a bit of 00:22:47.420 --> 00:22:51.859 a ladies' man. And Shane tells his parents that 00:22:51.859 --> 00:22:57.559 Ilya likes both, as in both men and women. Sort 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.319 of people are just who they are. I'm not saying 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.519 that explicit naming doesn't matter. It totally 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.059 does. Representation matters. Kids who are autistic, 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.000 seeing a character named as autistic as being 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.059 loved and successful and all the things Shane 00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:16.000 is, it matters. It matters. But for this particular 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.519 show, the coding doesn't feel like hiding. You 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:22.160 know what I mean? To me. It feels like trust. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.099 It feels like they're showing the viewers who 00:23:25.099 --> 00:23:28.380 exactly Shane is and trusting the audience to 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:30.839 meet them there. That's why we're all talking 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.380 about the neurodivergence in heated rivalry. 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.799 And that's because even though it's not explicitly 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.339 stated, Jacob Tierney and Hudson chose this one 00:23:40.339 --> 00:23:43.589 path and they. executed it just beautifully right 00:23:43.589 --> 00:23:46.490 beautifully yeah i agree you're saying how like 00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:49.390 you know the the show the creators are trusting 00:23:49.390 --> 00:23:51.390 the audience to like meet shane where he's at 00:23:51.390 --> 00:23:54.309 right and like i think that i often think about 00:23:54.910 --> 00:23:57.289 you know, in my career as a teacher, how when 00:23:57.289 --> 00:24:00.470 kids come into my classroom, I have to be able 00:24:00.470 --> 00:24:04.049 to also look for things to make sure that I am 00:24:04.049 --> 00:24:06.849 giving my kids the services that they need and 00:24:06.849 --> 00:24:10.130 deserve. But schools are basically a lab for 00:24:10.130 --> 00:24:12.710 masking, right? Sometimes kids are labeled rude, 00:24:12.849 --> 00:24:15.450 but they're actually overloaded. Kids sometimes 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:19.500 are labeled. that they don't care, but they actually 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:21.859 just have a processing lag or a flat affect, 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.079 right? Kids will get called control freaks, but 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.960 like they're just self -regulating. They thrive 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:31.119 in routine. And then the bright, compliant kids 00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.599 get missed because they're functional until they're 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.230 not. Until they're not. And that maps perfectly 00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:38.950 into Shane. He's elite. He knows what he's doing. 00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:41.890 Highest IQ, right? Like, that's his own reward 00:24:41.890 --> 00:24:44.569 system. But no one asks him what it costs him, 00:24:44.670 --> 00:24:47.730 you know? And so his functioning... Doesn't mean 00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:50.410 he's thriving. Early in my teaching career, I 00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:52.309 didn't get some of that. So I was probably someone 00:24:52.309 --> 00:24:53.809 who was like, oh, my God, this kid's being rude 00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:56.970 or doesn't care about what we're doing. But then, 00:24:56.970 --> 00:24:58.630 like, with experience, I started to realize, 00:24:58.690 --> 00:25:01.490 like, oh, like, no, like, I need to look at every 00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:04.410 kid in their own way to make sure that I give 00:25:04.410 --> 00:25:06.630 them, like, meet them where they are at. They 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:08.730 can't meet me. I'm the adult in the room. And 00:25:08.730 --> 00:25:11.559 Ilya does that. For Shane, actually. Ilya definitely 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.380 does that. He meets Shane where he is often. 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.859 You could see Ilya switch a lot of the times 00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:18.859 where he's joking around with Shane or asking 00:25:18.859 --> 00:25:20.680 him questions or saying things to him. And he 00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:23.640 realizes Shane isn't processing exactly how Ilya 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.779 means for it to be processed. So then Ilya will 00:25:26.779 --> 00:25:29.720 accommodate and modify his behavior and his language 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.700 to meet Shane where Shane is. That's so beautiful. 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.029 I definitely, definitely think that. relieves 00:25:37.029 --> 00:25:40.049 some of that masking and social anxiety because 00:25:40.049 --> 00:25:43.049 if you think about it kids like Shane or those 00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:46.529 kids in your class they're accommodating all 00:25:46.529 --> 00:25:49.029 the time whether or not you have needs like kids 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:52.190 are always accommodating to adults add on top 00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:55.230 of this neurodivergence those kids are accommodating 00:25:55.230 --> 00:25:59.009 every single moment you know I can see how tiring 00:25:59.009 --> 00:26:02.750 that can be how much social anxiety that would 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:05.710 give you. I definitely relate to this conversation 00:26:05.710 --> 00:26:09.329 about masking, especially as I was thinking back 00:26:09.329 --> 00:26:12.849 as like a young girl with ADHD. First of all, 00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:15.609 back then, saying back then makes me sound like 00:26:15.609 --> 00:26:18.569 so ancient. I mean, we're not that young anymore. 00:26:18.569 --> 00:26:22.990 So I think we can use back then. Neurodivergence 00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:26.190 was not. on people's radar the way it is now, 00:26:26.349 --> 00:26:28.690 especially if you didn't present in this classical 00:26:28.690 --> 00:26:32.329 way. Like for ADHD, you know, it's that boy who 00:26:32.329 --> 00:26:34.609 can't sit still, who's bouncing off the walls, 00:26:34.789 --> 00:26:38.049 who's interrupting, etc. And I was none of those 00:26:38.049 --> 00:26:40.890 things. I was very self -contained. I sat nicely 00:26:40.890 --> 00:26:43.509 at my desk. And from the outside, I looked like 00:26:43.509 --> 00:26:46.670 the perfect student. But inside, I was just... 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.299 complete mess. Even as a child, I just remember 00:26:49.299 --> 00:26:53.559 feeling the sense of being a total, total imposter. 00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:56.539 Even before I knew the phrase imposter syndrome, 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.460 I felt like I was one glitch away from collapse. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.599 Always, always. And I know I want to hug you 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:07.799 right now. It's true. It did. And it got worse 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.400 as I was getting older because then I didn't 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.970 have. parental scaffolding that kids have. And 00:27:13.970 --> 00:27:16.250 I was supposed to become more independent over 00:27:16.250 --> 00:27:19.329 my work. And on top of that, I actually had some 00:27:19.329 --> 00:27:22.549 real weaknesses in my learning profile. As you 00:27:22.549 --> 00:27:25.490 know, Diana, I'm a really bad speller. So like 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:28.450 my parents are Indian and Indians are obsessed 00:27:28.450 --> 00:27:31.170 with spelling bees. It's like a thing. And my 00:27:31.170 --> 00:27:33.490 parents would enter me in so many spelling bees 00:27:33.490 --> 00:27:36.529 outside of the school ones. And I would be out 00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:39.109 in the first round. But they kept going. It was 00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:42.569 so mortifying. I mean, I couldn't understand. 00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:46.750 I couldn't understand because I felt like I could 00:27:46.750 --> 00:27:49.289 write and I was articulate with my ideas, but 00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:52.849 spelling, it was such a disaster. But now I know 00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:55.990 it's part of like the sequencing aspect that 00:27:55.990 --> 00:27:58.309 I have trouble with, the working memory thing. 00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:00.869 Now I can't make fun of you for it. That's messed 00:28:00.869 --> 00:28:03.170 up. I'm still going to do it. I'm still going 00:28:03.170 --> 00:28:06.269 to do it. You're going to do it despite my neurodivergence. 00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:09.549 I can't even begin to tell you how much of a 00:28:09.549 --> 00:28:12.150 character flaw it felt like to have this ADHD 00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:15.789 style of procrastination. But it's actually not 00:28:15.789 --> 00:28:19.009 procrastination. It's like task paralysis. That's 00:28:19.009 --> 00:28:21.849 what it's called. It's wanting to do the thing, 00:28:21.950 --> 00:28:25.130 knowing I need to do the thing, still being completely 00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:28.579 unable to start it, ruminating. miserably about 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:32.240 not doing the thing for hours and I am in agony 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.440 I'm my brain just can't like get itself to release 00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.599 the dopamine it needs to start this process until 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:44.359 it gets to like the 11th hour and you have been 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.400 in the receiving end of this too at times and 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:50.440 now that I know that's classic executive dysfunction 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:55.079 and It's become even more difficult because as 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.839 a mom, executive functioning is like what moms 00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:01.680 are supposed to do. And when I talk to my fellow 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.559 moms about this and everyone, they're like, I'm 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.140 the brain of the house. And I nod my head and 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:10.799 I feel like a complete. It's like you move forward 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:13.539 in life with some combination of whatever your 00:29:13.539 --> 00:29:17.099 inherent intelligence is, your hyper focus. But 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.039 there's this like enormous compensatory effort 00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:22.799 that's completely invisible. That's the masking. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.839 You asked the question. Shane is surviving, but. 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:30.319 What's the cost? And that invisible struggle. 00:29:30.380 --> 00:29:34.400 And it hits me really hard because that constant 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.119 I'm a failure dialogue that runs through your 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.180 head as a child, it messes with your self -esteem 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:43.559 like no other. It's like that gap between how 00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.339 others perceive you and how you experience what 00:29:46.339 --> 00:29:49.980 you do inside. That struggle, that way in which 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.779 Shane is portrayed on screen, it really, it hit 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:57.240 me so hard. Like just seeing. that. I thought 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.700 I was going to cry during the immigrant episode, 00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.640 but here we are. I know you are. Why are you 00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.000 crying? It makes me think about some of my students. 00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.059 I used to teach 11th and 12th grade, so I would 00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:07.599 have an 11th grader and I would have them again 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.359 as seniors. And, you know, you could, gosh, you 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.000 could see how kids who especially are undiagnosed, 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.539 how much they struggle and how much internal. 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:20.880 shame they have over that. And all I think to 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:23.180 myself, even though I will accommodate and oftentimes 00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:26.140 I will fight for accommodations for them, I still 00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:29.160 feel so deeply sad about the fact that they've 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.779 gone through their entire educational career 00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:34.359 without having all these accommodations. And 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.680 they've come to believe that they are stupid 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:39.900 and they're not intelligent and they're not good 00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:42.160 enough. And then all they really, really needed 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.240 was some sort of an accommodation from the very 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:46.619 beginning. That has always broken my heart. But 00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:48.640 like, as you're talking about, it. You could 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.940 see that I have tears in my eyes because I just... 00:30:51.630 --> 00:30:54.150 We need to do such a better job with that. Okay, 00:30:54.430 --> 00:30:57.690 I'm done. I can't go on. Let's move on to the 00:30:57.690 --> 00:30:59.529 next thing. Let's talk about something else. 00:30:59.869 --> 00:31:04.150 No, I think it's true. It's not just the accommodation. 00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:07.109 It's that understanding and the acceptance. And 00:31:07.109 --> 00:31:11.150 here's the key part. It's like they need to learn 00:31:11.150 --> 00:31:14.769 about how to learn. They need to learn to work 00:31:14.769 --> 00:31:17.809 with their neurodivergence and not against it. 00:31:17.930 --> 00:31:21.500 And that's a years -long process. But the first 00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:26.119 step in that is really feeling that these elements 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.759 of your core self aren't some sort of character 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.819 flaw. Kudos for you for recognizing and, you 00:31:33.819 --> 00:31:36.160 know, fighting for your kids when they needed 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:39.720 something. I remember every teacher who leaned 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:43.319 into my way of thinking and working. So that 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:46.059 carries forward. So everyone who did see me, 00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:49.819 I always was really grateful for. I see you. 00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:53.319 So Diana, can I tell you a story? Anytime. Always. 00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:57.500 I say. Isn't that what we do here? That's what 00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:00.640 we do. That's the entire premise. So as you know, 00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:03.119 we live in a neurodivergent household and I just 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.740 want to. tell you this interpersonal relationship 00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:10.839 thing that me and my husband had. I was diagnosed 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:15.359 with ADHD formally not very long ago as an adult. 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.180 And as part of the diagnosis, you know, the psychiatrist 00:32:20.180 --> 00:32:23.980 gave me a questionnaire to give to someone who 00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:26.640 knows me well, and they would fill it out. And 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:29.339 of course, I gave it to my husband. And I told 00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:34.470 him... Should have given it to me. You'd get 00:32:34.470 --> 00:32:38.269 all sorts of diagnoses. I know, exactly. So I 00:32:38.269 --> 00:32:41.809 told him to fill it out with honesty. And also, 00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:44.210 don't worry, I'm not going to read it. And so 00:32:44.210 --> 00:32:47.430 he did. And he does honesty very well. He's very, 00:32:47.569 --> 00:32:50.569 very honest. And he filled it out. He left it 00:32:50.569 --> 00:32:53.690 in his office. And I came into his office when 00:32:53.690 --> 00:32:56.269 he wasn't there. I was clearly looking for this 00:32:56.269 --> 00:32:58.690 form. Even though you said you weren't going 00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:00.849 to read it. And it was sitting in plain sight 00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:03.819 on his desk. Completely unhidden. Of course I'm 00:33:03.819 --> 00:33:06.920 looking. Of course I'm going to look. And I looked 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:11.160 and oh my God, it was not flattering at all. 00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:13.700 It was like, God, I read this. I mean, you asked 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:17.019 someone with autism to be honest. I don't know 00:33:17.019 --> 00:33:22.079 what you expected. Yes. Yes. It was, it was unbridled 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:28.480 autistic honesty. I was so mad at him. And I 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.980 said, is this what you think of me holding this 00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:32.779 paper? And he's like, what are you doing with 00:33:32.779 --> 00:33:34.579 that? You said you weren't going to look. And 00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:37.400 part of me was like, I am definitely going to 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:41.779 get that ADHD diagnosis. Like definitely, definitely 00:33:41.779 --> 00:33:45.059 going to get it. So the intent has been accomplished. 00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:48.759 But my husband could not get past. You said you 00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:51.500 weren't going to look. And I mean, that's a fair 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:55.359 thing to not get past, to be honest. He has known 00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:01.359 me for this long. Has anything ever given you 00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:04.019 the impression that I would stick to this in 00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:07.559 our life? That's like such a... Neurodivergence. 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:09.440 But listen, you're still together. And we're 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.360 together and I got my diagnosis. So it's a win, 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:15.679 win, win. Well, I love that story. But this leads 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.099 very nicely into our next thing about interpersonal 00:34:18.099 --> 00:34:20.780 relationships. I want to talk about the relationship 00:34:20.780 --> 00:34:23.280 between Shane and Ilya, obviously, because what 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:25.559 else is this for? And I did bring this up earlier, 00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:27.500 but I want to kind of like do a little bit more 00:34:27.500 --> 00:34:29.679 of a deep dive. When you look at their relationship. 00:34:30.429 --> 00:34:32.769 Through the neurodivergent lens, like you could 00:34:32.769 --> 00:34:36.110 see that Ilya is genuinely like charmed by Shane's 00:34:36.110 --> 00:34:38.550 quote unquote quirks, right? The folded clothes, 00:34:38.769 --> 00:34:41.610 the earnest text, the logistics, the literalness. 00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:45.789 But more than that, he also clocks like Shane's 00:34:45.789 --> 00:34:48.309 needs and responds to those needs with care. 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:51.480 And I know that we've talked about Ilya being 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:53.440 an asshole. He like teases him and plays with 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.199 him. But like, I think, yes, but also that's 00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:58.280 his personality. That's his personality. Correct. 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.960 And then but he also adjusts. Right. When Shane 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.480 panics, Ilya doesn't escalate. He helps regulate 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.840 him at the cottage when Shane's dad discovers 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.360 him. Right. Ilya grounds him instead of also 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.139 being dramatic. Right. He literally grounds. 00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:16.980 He literally he hugs him really tight. Shane 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:18.949 is like, this is my literal. nightmare, Ilya. 00:35:18.989 --> 00:35:21.829 This is my nightmare. And Ilya delivers one of 00:35:21.829 --> 00:35:24.170 the best lines is, yeah, maybe it's time to wake 00:35:24.170 --> 00:35:27.289 up. Yes. Like, oh, I want that tattooed. And 00:35:27.289 --> 00:35:29.590 I've seen people getting tattoos of that. So 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:33.090 over time. Ilya learns how to read all of Shane's 00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:36.170 micro impressions to notice when there's shift 00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:39.030 in his expressions and to adjust in real time. 00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:42.309 You can see it when he jokes early on. But after 00:35:42.309 --> 00:35:44.630 their first sexual encounter together, they have 00:35:44.630 --> 00:35:46.730 this like awesome time and Shane is so excited. 00:35:46.809 --> 00:35:48.769 It's so good. And then you could see his face 00:35:48.769 --> 00:35:50.409 changes and he's like, you're not going to tell 00:35:50.409 --> 00:35:53.500 anyone. He gets really upset. And Ilya doesn't 00:35:53.500 --> 00:35:55.340 quite understand. Like, he can't joke around, 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:57.039 especially at a time like this. So he does make 00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.139 a joke at first. He's like, no shit. He says 00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:01.440 it in Russian, like, неужели. But what he means 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:03.119 to say is, like, no shit. Like, obviously, I'm 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.219 not going to tell anyone. But Shane does not. 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:09.550 He does not. He does not accept that. So he like 00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:12.710 shifts uncomfortably. He's completely serious. 00:36:12.750 --> 00:36:15.670 And he says, because no one can know. And Ilya 00:36:15.670 --> 00:36:18.510 immediately realizes, like, I can't be sarcastic 00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:20.489 right now. So he says, I'm not going to tell 00:36:20.489 --> 00:36:23.650 anyone. So he like learns that Shane does best 00:36:23.650 --> 00:36:27.409 with explicit, clear communication. And the second 00:36:27.409 --> 00:36:30.099 time they meet. When they're trying to decide 00:36:30.099 --> 00:36:32.400 where they're going to meet again next time to 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.780 actually have sex for the first time. And so 00:36:34.780 --> 00:36:36.420 Ilya's like, OK, well, we'll see each other next 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:37.920 time. Shane's like, next time. And he's like, 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:39.760 yeah, well, we're playing in Montreal in two 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.780 weeks. And Shane starts struggling. And Ilya's 00:36:41.780 --> 00:36:44.059 like, we'll meet at your house. And Shane's like, 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.840 again, very literally, it's an apartment. Ilya 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:50.380 sees that he starts to spiral. He immediately 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:52.920 de -escalates with clarity instead of subtext. 00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:56.139 He goes. It's just a plan to fuck. It definitely 00:36:56.139 --> 00:36:58.280 regulates and de -escalates Shane in that moment. 00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:00.460 In the moments people read as like super funny, 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:03.000 right? Like Shane earnestly answering how many 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.760 times he can come in an hour, right? Like noticing 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.400 that the bed is all dirty for the first time, 00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:11.500 you know? The teeny tiny like teary smile when 00:37:11.500 --> 00:37:14.760 Ilya wins the cup. Like the quote, being boring 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:18.920 is genetic jokes, right? Shane, like, followed 00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:20.920 by, like, the sincere, like, really? Like, none 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:23.739 of these are jokes. None of these are jokes at 00:37:23.739 --> 00:37:27.099 Shane's expense. Ilya does not joke at Shane's 00:37:27.099 --> 00:37:30.320 expense. When he calls Shane boring all the time, 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.889 like, that word. does a lot of work in their 00:37:32.889 --> 00:37:35.130 relationship. For Ilya, boring doesn't mean like 00:37:35.130 --> 00:37:37.769 dull or uninteresting. It means safe, predictable, 00:37:38.010 --> 00:37:40.550 like grounding, right? These moments aren't supposed 00:37:40.550 --> 00:37:42.489 to be punchlines. They're just windows in how 00:37:42.489 --> 00:37:45.170 Shane experiences the world. And what Ilya does 00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:48.030 so beautifully is meet him there, translate the 00:37:48.030 --> 00:37:50.329 world into something Shane can actually stand 00:37:50.329 --> 00:37:53.130 inside without flinching or feeling uncomfortable 00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:56.750 or feeling like he can't be himself. And I think 00:37:56.750 --> 00:37:59.389 that's genius. I really do. Yes to all of that. 00:38:00.329 --> 00:38:02.570 I think one of the things, words you used is 00:38:02.570 --> 00:38:06.530 like charmed. I think Shane really disarms Ilya. 00:38:06.570 --> 00:38:09.949 It flips the script because society often frames 00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:14.030 neurodivergence as the thing that is being accommodated. 00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:18.429 But the show and the books make it clear that 00:38:18.429 --> 00:38:22.800 Shane gives a lot. to Ilya too. Shane gives Ilya 00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.719 certainty because he doesn't do any games. He 00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.139 has no subtext. Right, right. And I can imagine 00:38:29.139 --> 00:38:32.559 for Ilya in a foreign land navigating all these 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:35.280 like customs that are new and unspoken that must 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.880 feel so refreshing. He approaches Ilya with curiosity 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.460 and not judgment. And I think sometimes that 00:38:42.460 --> 00:38:45.199 curiosity is waved away from Ilya because he 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:47.940 sees it for what it is, which is an interest. 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.469 You know, maybe I'm too into you as Shane says 00:38:51.469 --> 00:38:54.329 and sometimes as the audience you know we talked 00:38:54.329 --> 00:38:56.369 a little bit about that in the last episode we're 00:38:56.369 --> 00:38:58.889 like why are you asking this extremely obvious 00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:01.949 question Shane I'm thinking about where Shane 00:39:01.949 --> 00:39:05.030 asks about Ilya's feelings about Russia and his 00:39:05.030 --> 00:39:08.150 family in Russia at first glance you're like 00:39:08.150 --> 00:39:10.849 read the room but you know the thing is Shane 00:39:10.849 --> 00:39:13.849 can't actually read the room like that he's asking 00:39:13.849 --> 00:39:17.610 because he's genuinely curious and wants to know 00:39:17.610 --> 00:39:20.920 about Ilya from the beginning and he wants it 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:25.239 from ilia about ilia so i feel like when we talk 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:27.900 about accommodations in this relationship the 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.460 show and the books make it really clear it's 00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:33.280 not one directional it's not just shane receiving 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.320 understanding he's providing something equally 00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:40.920 he is he's providing safety clarity he's providing 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.739 the space for ilia to just be himself yeah absolutely 00:39:44.739 --> 00:39:47.019 and like shane also learns because toward the 00:39:47.019 --> 00:39:50.039 end in the cottage when he asks ilia have you 00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:53.340 talked to your family and ilia said no and instead 00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:56.280 of instead of just like letting it go shane asks 00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:59.260 a clarifying question and that question is is 00:39:59.260 --> 00:40:02.480 that a good thing shane needs to understand right 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.360 like how does ilia actually feel about the fact 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:07.840 that he's not talking to his family is he sad 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:11.199 is he not right like so shane adapts to everyone 00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:14.260 but because he has to but here he adapts because 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:17.739 he wants to he wants to be there for ilia in 00:40:17.739 --> 00:40:20.019 the way that ilia also needs just like ilia is 00:40:20.019 --> 00:40:23.079 there for shane that like how shane needs shane 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:25.940 sort of operates from this place of moral clarity 00:40:25.940 --> 00:40:29.400 almost he has this like really consistent ethical 00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.800 framework what is right what is wrong patterns 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.940 routines um And I felt like I used to say, oh, 00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:41.320 he's just like good and pure. While that might 00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:44.300 be true, I feel like it's sort of infantilizing. 00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.880 Shane is not naive. It's just that he doesn't 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:51.340 lead with suspicion. They don't spend that energy 00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:55.619 calculating, like, what's your deal? Yeah, that's 00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:58.320 good. Here's another thing the show does really 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.539 well, because Shane... I feel like forgives very 00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:04.460 readily when there's a genuine apology. Like 00:41:04.460 --> 00:41:07.159 I'm thinking about the scene when they're in 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.460 the bathroom after the award. Ilya has essentially 00:41:10.460 --> 00:41:13.699 ghosted Shane. And then Ilya comes close and 00:41:13.699 --> 00:41:17.460 Shane just goes. Like he folds into him. And 00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:20.320 I mean, it was pretty sexy, but it wasn't driven 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:23.880 entirely by lust. Shane just took his sort of, 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:28.260 I want to get back with you. at face value. And 00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:31.539 I see that too in my husband. I don't think it's 00:41:31.539 --> 00:41:34.260 because they're like more angelic than the average 00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:37.820 person. I think it's because when they hear the 00:41:37.820 --> 00:41:40.659 problem named and they feel like there's a genuine 00:41:40.659 --> 00:41:43.880 apology, it's done. It's done. Oh my God. I wish. 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:48.039 I wish that I had that inherently because then 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:51.519 there's less need for someone to linger in the 00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.960 herd and the transgression has been acknowledged. 00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:58.719 The closure is done. Let's move on. And it's 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.420 like super, super refreshing. And when they're 00:42:01.420 --> 00:42:03.300 texting back, Ilya does like still mad, still 00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:05.039 mad about Vegas. And Shane's like, I'm not mad 00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.960 about anything. Like, and he really isn't. He's 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:09.280 let it go. So it makes perfect sense. Yeah, that's 00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:10.980 a good. Oh, that's a good one. I didn't think 00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:14.889 of that one. Yeah, I would be mad forever. Girl, 00:42:14.929 --> 00:42:17.650 I know. Anusha, thank you so much for this discussion. 00:42:18.010 --> 00:42:21.460 I... I... I think it's an important one. I hope 00:42:21.460 --> 00:42:24.699 we did it justice. And I think it's time to move 00:42:24.699 --> 00:42:27.019 on to our favorite part of the show. Our moment 00:42:27.019 --> 00:42:31.579 of sunshine. So this is a very theme specific 00:42:31.579 --> 00:42:35.960 moment. So as part of my ADHD, I have this thing 00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.920 called a 3 a .m. alarm. Well, it's actually not 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:42.099 3 a .m. It's 310 a .m. And it's like when I wake 00:42:42.099 --> 00:42:45.840 up to work. So like in the throes of college, 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.440 medical school, residency, I'd wake up to work. 00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:52.420 Because at 310, it's the dead of night and literally 00:42:52.420 --> 00:42:55.360 everything is quiet. The world is quiet. My brain 00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.559 is quiet. There's no distractions. There's no 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.340 expectations. Everything is silent and my brain 00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:05.840 works relatively well. I was talking to my husband 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.699 about this show and he takes his phone out and 00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:12.469 he shows me his standard alarms and on it. is 00:43:12.469 --> 00:43:15.989 the 310 alarm. And not that he wakes up every 00:43:15.989 --> 00:43:18.869 night at 310. Sometimes if it's like a really 00:43:18.869 --> 00:43:21.929 big thing, I'll ask him to just like turn it 00:43:21.929 --> 00:43:26.150 on too in case I snooze mine. But yeah, he's 00:43:26.150 --> 00:43:28.949 had that. So your moment of sunshine is waking 00:43:28.949 --> 00:43:33.030 up at 310 and your husband having the same alarm 00:43:33.030 --> 00:43:36.489 to help you wake up at 310. My moment of sunshine 00:43:36.489 --> 00:43:41.230 is that since he's known me, he's had this. on 00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:43.489 his phone since he's had an iphone that's very 00:43:43.489 --> 00:43:46.610 sweet right okay so what's your moment of sunshine 00:43:46.610 --> 00:43:49.389 well as you know our friends get together for 00:43:49.389 --> 00:43:53.590 a very quick coffee most fridays it's usually 00:43:53.590 --> 00:43:57.019 like four or five of us and we are catching up 00:43:57.019 --> 00:44:00.320 for the week. It gives me the energy and life 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:03.380 to last me for the next Friday. It just brings 00:44:03.380 --> 00:44:06.320 me so, so much joy. It's so fun when I can come. 00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:09.360 As you also know, most of our friends that we 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:13.460 get together with have ADHD. They're all neurodivergent. 00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:16.260 They're all neurodivergent. And I am, according 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.039 to the rest of you, is the only neurotypical 00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.539 in the group. Well, less than. I wouldn't say 00:44:23.539 --> 00:44:27.260 I'm completely, right? spend my Friday mornings 00:44:27.260 --> 00:44:31.320 drinking coffee and trying my best to understand 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.900 all the conversations that are happening at the 00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:36.940 same time. Because during breakfast, there are 00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:39.239 about two or three conversations going on at 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.219 the same time between four or five people. And 00:44:42.219 --> 00:44:46.320 I could never. I mean, it's nonlinear. I can 00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:51.360 never finish a story. I sometimes wonder. I mean, 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:56.440 see, I'm literally you're literally. right now 00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:00.000 you're literally proving it right now I cannot 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.179 friends listeners I cannot get an entire story 00:45:04.179 --> 00:45:07.260 out in one breath I can't I'm not I actually 00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:09.659 wonder sometimes if my friends actually know 00:45:09.659 --> 00:45:13.079 who I am because they won't let me talk without 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:17.019 interruptions and I love them all so much that 00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:21.860 I have been accommodating To this version of 00:45:21.860 --> 00:45:25.659 storytelling for years, for years. Do you guys 00:45:25.659 --> 00:45:28.960 know me at all? So we do know you very well. 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.360 We know all the things about you. We just don't 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:34.519 need to hear it in a straight line. That's the 00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:36.679 difference. That's the difference. But we have 00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:40.139 digested everything about you deeply in our hearts. 00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:43.000 And we know you. We know you. But anyway, that's 00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.420 my moment of sunshine. You know, most Fridays, 00:45:45.500 --> 00:45:48.320 whenever we can get away, we just do our hour 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:51.650 brekkie, you know. get in there and it's awesome 00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:58.400 I love that and non -linear and non -linear Next 00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.360 week on Everyone Deserves Sunshine, we're talking 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:03.320 about music. I'm super excited to talk about 00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:06.800 this topic and also to hear about your rape situation. 00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.639 Yeah, we're going to talk about that. So subscribe 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:11.760 now wherever you get your podcasts. And if you 00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:13.539 want to say hi to the girls in the crease, find 00:46:13.539 --> 00:46:17.420 us on Instagram, Facebook, and threads at EveryoneDeservesSunshine. 00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:21.139 Or email us at EveryoneDeservesSunshine at gmail 00:46:21.139 --> 00:46:24.199 .com. New episodes drop on Mondays. See you then.