WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.359 Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine, I'm Diana. 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.879 And I'm Anusha, we're the girls in the crease. 00:00:05.059 --> 00:00:07.219 Okay, let me preface by saying I'm fighting a 00:00:07.219 --> 00:00:09.980 cold. My voice is gonna be a little hoarse, okay? 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:12.740 I apologize, I'm trying my best. Can I just tell 00:00:12.740 --> 00:00:16.379 you how absolutely blown away I am by the number 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:19.280 of listeners we have across the world? I am so 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.420 honored also that we have so many Canadian listeners. 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:25.980 I mean, this is a Canadian show about a Canadian 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:28.859 sport, so it just makes me so happy. And I check 00:00:28.859 --> 00:00:32.630 this. morning, and our Canadian listeners surpassed 00:00:32.630 --> 00:00:34.530 the listeners here in the U .S. They're listening 00:00:34.530 --> 00:00:38.590 to us talk about it. It warms my heart. And we 00:00:38.590 --> 00:00:42.869 have listeners from 33 different countries, which 00:00:42.869 --> 00:00:45.869 is kind of insane, right? That's insane. That's 00:00:45.869 --> 00:00:49.149 truly insane. 33 countries want to hear us talk. 00:00:49.210 --> 00:00:52.450 It's crazy. And I love it. Well, like maybe like 00:00:52.450 --> 00:00:55.210 one person per country. But yes. Yeah, let's 00:00:55.210 --> 00:00:58.689 just. Yeah, exactly. I'm so grateful that Canada 00:00:58.689 --> 00:01:00.810 produced the show for us and saved Christmas 00:01:00.810 --> 00:01:04.750 and Hanukkah and New Year's and all the holidays. 00:01:04.790 --> 00:01:06.930 All of them. All of them. And potentially saved 00:01:06.930 --> 00:01:10.150 us all from demise. Potentially that. Potentially 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.469 that. Saved us all. Saved us all. I know. You 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:15.340 know what? We received. so much feedback thank 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:17.420 you to all of the listeners who are not only 00:01:17.420 --> 00:01:19.620 taking the time to listen but to also send us 00:01:19.620 --> 00:01:22.200 feedback this is totally new for us we've never 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.060 done this before so we really appreciate we have 00:01:25.060 --> 00:01:27.379 never done this before so we really do appreciate 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:29.739 any feedback you have for us feel free to email 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:32.700 us as well and you can leave your comments on 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:35.900 anywhere you listen to the podcast i wanted to 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:40.980 read two comments anusha listening to this podcast 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:43.799 is like hanging out with good friends and talking 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.859 about a tv show you like i like that one that's 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:49.560 exactly what we're aiming for i love that that's 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.719 the hope right yeah the second one which i think 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:54.540 you're gonna have something to say about this 00:01:54.540 --> 00:02:00.219 okay is and i quote I was embarrassed by the 00:02:00.219 --> 00:02:04.379 Wawa tuna melt, but loved everything else. Your 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:07.840 tuna melt was an entire debacle. I just you like 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:12.610 broke the Internet. I know. I know. I am so sorry. 00:02:12.629 --> 00:02:15.750 My God, I just feel like I need to address this 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:19.310 whole Wawa Tuna Melt disaster. So I apologize, 00:02:19.490 --> 00:02:22.629 listeners. I apologize, friends. I'm going to 00:02:22.629 --> 00:02:24.830 try again. I'm going to do better. Please give 00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:26.669 me another chance. I am not going to embarrass 00:02:26.669 --> 00:02:29.289 you. I won't embarrass you too, Diana. I won't. 00:02:29.289 --> 00:02:31.289 Wow, it's a little too late for that. But don't 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:33.389 worry, listeners. As she said, I have taken it 00:02:33.389 --> 00:02:36.669 upon myself to make her a legitimate Tuna Melt. 00:02:36.870 --> 00:02:38.750 In fact, our friends are going to have an entire 00:02:38.750 --> 00:02:42.069 competition. Hopefully, one of our tuna mouths 00:02:42.069 --> 00:02:45.370 will melt your heart more than the Wawa one did. 00:02:45.770 --> 00:02:49.229 That's a tall order, but I'm so into it. And 00:02:49.229 --> 00:02:53.129 I'm also very into the theme for our discussion 00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:56.689 today. So take it away, Diana. All right. It's 00:02:56.689 --> 00:02:58.990 episode three and we're talking about the immigrant 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:01.530 experience. I really wanted to do this episode 00:03:01.530 --> 00:03:04.370 on the immigrant experience because it has a 00:03:04.370 --> 00:03:07.310 character from Russia and my background is Eastern 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:10.370 European. I'm Soviet born. My family is from 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:12.250 different parts of Eastern Europe. And, you know, 00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:15.090 when I watched the show and I saw this Russian 00:03:15.090 --> 00:03:17.509 character, I almost didn't want to watch it because 00:03:17.509 --> 00:03:21.009 of that. Yeah. And because I kind of expected 00:03:21.009 --> 00:03:24.330 it to be like your stereotypical Russian character. 00:03:24.969 --> 00:03:27.430 But obviously, when I watched more of it, I really 00:03:27.430 --> 00:03:29.849 felt like I was watching some of my like childhood 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.909 and some of my own experiences that I've had. 00:03:33.009 --> 00:03:36.090 So it's like a very deeply personal topic for 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:39.169 me. And I hope that I can get through this episode 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:42.250 without crying. So apologies. But that is what 00:03:42.250 --> 00:03:44.889 I've been doing a lot of these days. So yeah, 00:03:44.990 --> 00:03:49.020 we know you are now a crier. Yeah. Okay. This 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:52.159 hits so, so close to home for me, too. I feel 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.759 you on that as a fellow immigrant. And it's even 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:58.219 more haunting to me because, honestly, of where 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:01.400 we are in this moment in time in the United States. 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:04.219 And what I love about Hated Rivalry is that the 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:07.659 immigrant story is always present without it 00:04:07.659 --> 00:04:11.000 becoming sort of this, quote unquote, very special 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:13.979 episode. You know what I mean? It just permeates 00:04:13.979 --> 00:04:17.300 through the entire series. They don't just mention 00:04:17.300 --> 00:04:20.629 it once. for sort of lip service. So it feels 00:04:20.629 --> 00:04:25.310 so authentic and naturally unfolding. How old 00:04:25.310 --> 00:04:28.290 were you when you came to the U .S.? I was 11. 00:04:28.629 --> 00:04:30.810 I was born in, like I said, the Soviet Union, 00:04:30.870 --> 00:04:33.170 but actually Uzbekistan. It's part of Central 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:35.730 Asia, not actually Russia. I was born there, 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:37.709 as I said, when it was the Soviet Union. So I 00:04:37.709 --> 00:04:40.170 consider myself Soviet born. How old were you 00:04:40.170 --> 00:04:43.029 when you came here? I was eight when I came to 00:04:43.029 --> 00:04:46.290 the States. like a similar age as you. My dad 00:04:46.290 --> 00:04:48.769 was already in the U .S. and my mom and I were 00:04:48.769 --> 00:04:51.110 in Chennai, India. That's where I was living. 00:04:51.329 --> 00:04:54.569 And so we had this vague notion that we would 00:04:54.569 --> 00:04:58.149 be moving to the U .S. in the next year or so. 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:02.050 But then we got a call in March and found out 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:05.759 we had about two weeks. to pack up our whole 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.899 lives and move. And not only that, we were going 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:11.740 to be traveling with my uncle and staying with 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:13.819 him. And my uncle, by the way, was going to get 00:05:13.819 --> 00:05:16.240 married in those two weeks to a woman he met 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.620 maybe twice. In India? Yeah. He was going to 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.139 get married in India, getting married and then 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.740 bringing us all back. So then my uncle, his new 00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:28.000 wife, my mom, and I moved into his tiny apartment 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.180 in Colorado. He decided to take us camping in 00:05:31.180 --> 00:05:33.899 Yellowstone. In March. I mean, I didn't even 00:05:33.899 --> 00:05:36.680 have a winter coat at that time. I think I think 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:39.420 we got my winter coat as we were driving to the 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:42.160 campsite. Yeah. That's like a like a welcome 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:45.899 to America. Yeah, that was definitely, definitely. 00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:49.139 And I think my uncle wanted this to be his honeymoon 00:05:49.139 --> 00:05:53.620 surprise for his new wife. So picture this. We 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:55.339 went from sharing this one bedroom apartment 00:05:55.339 --> 00:05:57.939 to a single tent because, of course, we didn't 00:05:57.939 --> 00:06:00.560 splurge for two tents. And then we set that tent 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.029 up. on a hill because none of us had ever camped 00:06:04.029 --> 00:06:07.250 before. Like this was a new experience. And so 00:06:07.250 --> 00:06:10.329 every morning we'd wake up miserable and cold 00:06:10.329 --> 00:06:12.910 and like a pile at the bottom of the tent because 00:06:12.910 --> 00:06:17.790 again, hill, march, Yellowstone. And then my 00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:20.750 aunt just completely refused to do it. And we 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.490 checked in to an econo lodge. I still remember 00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:26.970 the hotel, like all of this in very vivid detail. 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:30.389 So that's my coming to America story. It's not. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.120 As glamorous as being the number one draft pick 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.939 for the NHL, like Ilya. So a little different. 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.579 No, a little different. Not as glamorous. But, 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:42.079 you know, your own story. We all have our own 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.819 stories, you know. And by the way, it took me 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.319 less than two months to have a full on American 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.379 accent. Less than two months. I learned most 00:06:49.379 --> 00:06:52.100 of my English the summer after we came here. 00:06:52.730 --> 00:06:55.870 By watching I Love Lucy and all these like other 00:06:55.870 --> 00:06:58.110 old shows. I know. I know. And like it's funny 00:06:58.110 --> 00:07:00.629 because like some people will say I have an accent, 00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:03.350 but they never think I'm an immigrant. They always 00:07:03.350 --> 00:07:05.029 like, oh, are you from like the Northeast? Like 00:07:05.029 --> 00:07:07.069 you have a Northeast accent. I honestly don't 00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:09.930 know. I definitely have a little bit of an accent. 00:07:10.379 --> 00:07:13.160 with some words more than others but you know 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:15.779 what it is what it is for sure so you know it's 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:17.680 interesting that you bring up belonging because 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.500 i think that leads in quite nicely into talking 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:23.699 about ilia and this like him never quite belonging 00:07:23.699 --> 00:07:26.379 anywhere you know when i look at ilia And I'm 00:07:26.379 --> 00:07:28.079 just going to tell the listeners like I have 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.920 I have such a soft spot for that man. I cannot 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.199 even express to you. I haven't noticed that at 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:35.319 all about you. No. Yeah. I don't know. I've been 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.379 very quiet about it, I think. But I just wanted 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:39.560 to be very transparent on this show and like 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.680 tell everyone that I just love him so much. He's 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.319 very lovable. He's an extremely lovable person. 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:46.420 I'm with you. I'm with you. He really is. Really. 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.319 But the funny thing is, he's not loved. too much 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.360 by western audiences especially not right away 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:54.939 not until later and i think that's because you 00:07:54.939 --> 00:07:58.720 know he's very at first like very quickly portrayed 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.680 as this like russian tough guy almost like a 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:04.620 dangerous you know person like a hot -headed 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:09.490 chaotic right And so this is very stereotypical 00:08:09.490 --> 00:08:13.709 about Russians in North America and especially, 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:15.550 you know, with hockey culture and everything. 00:08:15.629 --> 00:08:18.910 So I get it. He's living between these two worlds. 00:08:19.029 --> 00:08:22.110 He's recruited into a North American team. So 00:08:22.110 --> 00:08:24.829 it's a huge part of him. But like a bigger part 00:08:24.829 --> 00:08:27.389 of him is still very much Russian. And he's mentally 00:08:27.389 --> 00:08:30.490 in both places, like here in the U .S. and in 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:33.929 Moscow. But to me, like Ilya is the epitome of 00:08:33.929 --> 00:08:36.820 you never quite belong anywhere. And I felt like 00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:39.139 that on a very personal level for a very long 00:08:39.139 --> 00:08:41.340 time. When we first came here and, you know, 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:43.440 we moved to the Northeast and Philly, there's 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.179 a huge Russian community there to this day. And 00:08:46.179 --> 00:08:48.980 I was very much ingrained in all of it. And when 00:08:48.980 --> 00:08:51.519 I say Russian, I mean Russian speaking. All of 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:53.179 us are from different places, like the former 00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:55.419 Soviet Union, right? It's such a huge place. 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.139 But the Russian language is primary. It's just 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:01.120 easier to say Russian. So I'm just using that 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.110 like interchangeably in that respect. Growing 00:09:04.110 --> 00:09:06.070 up in that community, I definitely felt like 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.789 I belonged in so many ways, right? I speak Russian, 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:10.649 like we have the same culture and customs and 00:09:10.649 --> 00:09:15.470 everything. So it felt good. But I also had this 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:18.230 other part of me that was like so much more progressive 00:09:18.230 --> 00:09:22.590 than so many of the people around me. And that's 00:09:22.590 --> 00:09:25.649 where I like kind of felt like I didn't. belong 00:09:25.649 --> 00:09:28.809 fully right like fully and I and I you know I 00:09:28.809 --> 00:09:30.750 do wonder if anyone really belongs fully but 00:09:30.750 --> 00:09:33.049 like I I definitely had that like you like these 00:09:33.049 --> 00:09:35.350 are my people this is my community but like something 00:09:35.350 --> 00:09:37.789 in me is just not right like you just don't quite 00:09:37.789 --> 00:09:40.809 fit in right so I moved away from northeast Philly 00:09:40.809 --> 00:09:44.129 into the suburbs and then I became much more 00:09:44.129 --> 00:09:46.210 ingrained in like the American culture I got 00:09:46.210 --> 00:09:48.210 more American friends like there weren't really 00:09:48.210 --> 00:09:51.750 many Russians up here back in the late 90s and 00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:55.210 again I belong here in terms of some of my values 00:09:55.210 --> 00:09:58.990 right but i also miss this like whole eastern 00:09:58.990 --> 00:10:01.429 european culture that i love so so very much 00:10:01.429 --> 00:10:04.149 and so again i'm like straddling these two worlds 00:10:04.149 --> 00:10:07.169 as an immigrant and i could really see ilia feeling 00:10:07.169 --> 00:10:11.909 the same way so often i Completely get that. 00:10:12.009 --> 00:10:14.889 I do. Can I go back to one point you made earlier 00:10:14.889 --> 00:10:17.889 about how Ilya is perceived? Because you said 00:10:17.889 --> 00:10:20.769 a lot of people, they meet Ilya and they see 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:23.470 this like stereotypical Russian the way you characterize 00:10:23.470 --> 00:10:26.529 him, right? Right. But I don't know if it's the 00:10:26.529 --> 00:10:30.409 acting or the way it's directed, but as a viewer, 00:10:30.590 --> 00:10:34.350 that's not how I perceived Ilya at all. But I 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:37.990 clearly felt like in the show world, what you 00:10:37.990 --> 00:10:41.519 were saying. was absolutely the lens with which 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.860 people saw him. That stereotype, at least initially, 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:48.220 right? As a viewer, though, it felt like you 00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:50.879 were seeing from the beginning this complex character 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.399 who's just sort of navigating what you're describing, 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.899 being of two worlds, being this fish out of water 00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:01.820 in a country he came to without any family or 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:04.139 friends, right? Right, absolutely. And with a 00:11:04.139 --> 00:11:06.960 language barrier on top of that. On top of that, 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.480 on top of that. And I don't know if it was something 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.460 from our immigrant background that immediately 00:11:11.460 --> 00:11:15.039 connected us with him. But yeah, I just thought 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.279 what you said was so interesting because I can 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:21.320 see how that was shown in the show. But as the 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.899 viewer, it was clear that it was going to be 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:26.860 a lot more nuanced. I've definitely heard a lot 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:28.919 of criticism about him being, quote unquote, 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:31.320 you know, stereotypical cold Russian man who 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.039 doesn't open himself up, you know, just has all 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.389 these like walls. Like, when I look at him, all 00:11:36.389 --> 00:11:39.190 I see is just, like, this sadness in his eyes. 00:11:39.789 --> 00:11:42.210 And I think, like, if you look at episode one 00:11:42.210 --> 00:11:46.389 during the draft, like, the kid has been drafted 00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:48.629 as, like, number one pick, right? In the world. 00:11:48.710 --> 00:11:52.870 In the world. And all his dad can say is he's 00:11:52.870 --> 00:11:57.000 lazy. Like, he's lazy. What? Yeah, yeah. And 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.759 he says it to the owner, right? You could actually 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.700 hear the owner kind of like pause before he responds. 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:07.080 And then you can kind of see Ilya's like, he 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.759 has this sort of smile plastered on. But even 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.240 that like sort of fake smile, that falls. I remember 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:14.299 that scene. Yeah, well, he's masking, right? 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:16.500 We all do really great at masking. But the way 00:12:16.500 --> 00:12:19.179 that scene is shot is so great because we're 00:12:19.179 --> 00:12:21.899 always seeing just Ilya's face there. His dad 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:24.000 is off to the side. We only see the back of like 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.620 the owner, right? And so all you see is Ilya's 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:29.460 face and emotions. You're right. He has like 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:32.860 this fake smile and he's like completely disassociating 00:12:32.860 --> 00:12:35.960 from this moment. Again. world famous athlete 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.860 he's he's the best he's successful he has everything 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:42.059 and yet he's constantly doing this outsider math 00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:44.379 like when is he allowed to be himself clearly 00:12:44.379 --> 00:12:46.639 not in front of his dad right not in front of 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.200 this owner so he has everything but he's doing 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.919 this math and depending on who's around he needs 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.220 to act a certain way whether it's his American 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:56.860 friends or teammates or so yeah absolutely code 00:12:56.860 --> 00:12:59.039 switching right like how do I navigate this world 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:01.039 where I live when the pressure is so high and 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:04.230 like acceptance is so low okay I Love what you 00:13:04.230 --> 00:13:06.190 said. I feel like it should be a quote or something. 00:13:06.269 --> 00:13:09.909 Maybe like embroider it or something. I don't 00:13:09.909 --> 00:13:12.429 know how to embroider. If I did, I would. But 00:13:12.429 --> 00:13:15.929 pressure is high. Acceptance is low. It's like 00:13:15.929 --> 00:13:19.149 he can never fully take a deep breath in or out, 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:22.250 right? He's calculating the risk of how much 00:13:22.250 --> 00:13:25.149 to reveal about himself, how replaceable he is. 00:13:25.850 --> 00:13:28.549 But you know, despite all of that, he's just 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:31.990 so fearless, right? He could have had this easy 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:34.879 marriage. with Svetlana, as he mentioned in episode 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:38.340 six, to get a pathway to, you know, residency 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:42.080 and citizenship. But then Shane says, don't marry 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.799 Svetlana. And he agrees. He agrees to that without 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.639 any sort of guarantee. I mean, they had what? 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:51.269 They're like. two minutes into their established 00:13:51.269 --> 00:13:56.190 relationship at that point. And he agrees, even 00:13:56.190 --> 00:13:59.669 though his residency status is so tenuous, it's 00:13:59.669 --> 00:14:02.590 so risky. He says, I cannot be anything close 00:14:02.590 --> 00:14:06.029 to gay because Russia. Because Russia. Because 00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:09.570 Russia. I felt that in my bones, girl. Like I 00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:12.389 felt that in my bones. But despite all of that, 00:14:12.429 --> 00:14:15.289 he still wants to. come to the cottage eventually. 00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:18.389 He wants to hold Shane's hand. He wants to show 00:14:18.389 --> 00:14:21.649 love for his boyfriend. And it's just beautiful 00:14:21.649 --> 00:14:24.610 and heartbreaking and poignant because you think, 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:28.230 my God, this person, they just want to be themselves. 00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:31.330 You know, the show takes this unique experience. 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:33.350 In this case, we're talking about the immigrant 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:36.840 experience and it just manages to relate. to 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:40.559 the audience in such a universal way. Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:44.759 The realness of it, it really hits home for me. 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:47.779 And I actually read a piece in Vanity Fair by 00:14:47.779 --> 00:14:50.379 a Russian journalist, Michael Zagar. I hope I'm 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:53.460 saying that right. He said that Ilya feels true 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.279 to life for many queer Russians living under 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:59.120 oppression. And he said he knows people like 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:02.840 Ilya and even sees himself in Ilya. He also mentioned 00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:05.220 that watching the show in today's Russia is like 00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:07.960 a mix of rebellion and hope. Moscow Times mentioned 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.240 that the show's popular because of this like 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.639 cultural familiarity. A Russian protagonist, 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.940 abusive family dynamics, this forbidden thing 00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:18.460 that he has going on. Ilya's closeted struggle 00:15:18.460 --> 00:15:21.720 resonates with so many Russians because it mirrors 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.960 their lived experience. Russians are using all 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.799 sorts of VPNs, pirating software to watch the 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:29.759 show because it's not allowed in the country, 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.330 obviously. I did. I did see that. Yeah. And it's 00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:34.929 like one of the highest rated shows on their 00:15:34.929 --> 00:15:37.450 own version of Rotten Tomatoes. Listen, I'm not 00:15:37.450 --> 00:15:39.730 saying a TV show is going to change how Russia 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:43.350 approaches LGBTQ plus folks. But I do hope that 00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:45.690 at the very least, it's giving Russian people 00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:47.830 the hope that they need. Right. Even if it's 00:15:47.830 --> 00:15:50.570 fleeting. I like to believe that, you know, people 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:53.309 who are seeing it are finding it healing. Maybe 00:15:53.309 --> 00:15:55.590 a TV show has the ability to change our lives. 00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:57.389 I mean, we're doing this podcast, right? It's 00:15:57.389 --> 00:16:01.159 it's. changed by hope. They're watching the show, 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:04.980 the show where they're not allowed to be what 00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:08.399 the show is portraying. The portrayal of Ilya 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.059 in this nuanced way, I hope it makes someone 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:15.679 see themselves in that way, in a place where 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.309 they really need it. There's also this thing 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:20.809 with Shane. This cute little Canadian boy has 00:16:20.809 --> 00:16:23.549 no idea what Ilya is working with. Shane is growing 00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:26.129 up in Canada. Very supportive, loving parents, 00:16:26.409 --> 00:16:28.990 a ton of friends, ton of opportunity. Whereas 00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:31.529 Ilya is growing up in Moscow. Pressure's insane. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.019 We know his mom passed away. His dad is emotionally 00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:37.820 abusive, never good enough. His brother is an 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:40.559 asshole. And so he tries to keep all that hidden. 00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:43.600 And on top of that, he's hiding this huge secret, 00:16:43.700 --> 00:16:45.460 being in love with Shane and the fact that he's 00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:48.860 bi. Actually, in episode one, at the very end, 00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:50.659 when they're on the rooftop and Shane's a little 00:16:50.659 --> 00:16:53.690 drunk, he's upset. with Ilya because he's like, 00:16:53.750 --> 00:16:56.629 why can't you be down there and be supportive 00:16:56.629 --> 00:17:00.090 for my win? In that moment, Ilya tells him, I 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:02.509 go back to Russia in a couple of days. And Shane 00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:05.329 is like, oh, that must be nice. And the look 00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:08.210 that Ilya has, I think it clicks for him that 00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:11.769 Shane is just too immature to understand exactly 00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:14.809 what Ilya has to deal with. And Ilya just stares 00:17:14.809 --> 00:17:17.630 into space. You could see his, like, jaw clenches. 00:17:17.690 --> 00:17:20.309 I mean, dude, Connor's story's acting is insane, 00:17:20.390 --> 00:17:24.789 but whatever. Like, you could feel every single 00:17:24.789 --> 00:17:27.970 emotion without having said a single word. He's 00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:30.650 very clearly thinking, like, dude, this asshole 00:17:30.650 --> 00:17:33.589 has no idea what I have to deal with. To say, 00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:35.900 like, must be nice that you're going back to 00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:38.859 Russia Shane seems really oblivious in that moment 00:17:38.859 --> 00:17:41.440 really he has like no idea what it's like for 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.900 Ilya and the fact that this kid like hates his 00:17:43.900 --> 00:17:47.819 life in so many ways and he's forced to go back. 00:17:47.859 --> 00:17:49.819 There's no other reality where he does not go 00:17:49.819 --> 00:17:51.359 back to Russia. Right, he doesn't have a choice 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.539 because he loves Russia, but Russia doesn't love 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.900 him back, you know? Right. Yeah, that's an interesting 00:17:56.900 --> 00:17:59.619 sentiment, right? You can love any country you 00:17:59.619 --> 00:18:02.319 are from, even if it's super problematic, but 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.519 still feel completely out of place. And that 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.140 goes back to what we said about never quite belonging 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:10.500 and like being between these two worlds. Yeah, 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:12.910 yeah. Okay, can I take a moment? This is perfect, 00:18:12.970 --> 00:18:14.990 actually, because we've been talking about Ilya 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:17.089 this whole time, and I just want to take a second. 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:20.450 or more than a second probably, to talk about 00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:23.170 Shane here, because I just want to talk about 00:18:23.170 --> 00:18:25.970 the contrast between Shane and Ilya in this particular 00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:29.190 lens, from the immigrant lens. I'll preface by 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:31.730 saying Shane is mixed race. His mom is Japanese 00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:35.750 -Canadian. So there's still an immigrant element 00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:38.549 to his family story. Of course, of course. So 00:18:38.549 --> 00:18:41.750 Shane has this Asian heritage, but he's also 00:18:41.750 --> 00:18:45.509 generationally Canadian, right? And in our last 00:18:45.509 --> 00:18:48.630 episode about masculinity, We talked a lot about 00:18:48.630 --> 00:18:53.250 how we both felt their relationship was so equal, 00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:56.549 external to their personal and private relationship. 00:18:56.730 --> 00:19:00.250 But in this particular layer, in the immigrant 00:19:00.250 --> 00:19:03.710 layer, it's not the case. Absolutely not the 00:19:03.710 --> 00:19:07.180 case, right? Shane moves through this. his Canadian 00:19:07.180 --> 00:19:10.980 world with total ease. Again, in this specific 00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:13.940 facet, right? But he has other things that, you 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:17.140 know, make him uneasy, like being gay in professional 00:19:17.140 --> 00:19:19.400 hockey. I'm not saying he has nothing, but in 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.960 this particular way, he has all the ease. But 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.779 he's so unaware of how his fluency and the culture 00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:29.799 and the language and his citizenship and the 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:32.539 kind of institutional protection he actually 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:37.970 gets from the hockey world. From being on a Canadian 00:19:37.970 --> 00:19:41.029 team as a Canadian and the golden boy on top 00:19:41.029 --> 00:19:43.630 of everything else of hockey, right? He has all 00:19:43.630 --> 00:19:46.670 of the advantage and yeah, he earned it through 00:19:46.670 --> 00:19:50.000 his skill. Partly it's because he's at home. 00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:52.460 He's in his home. I think it's a significant 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:56.900 way where this power dynamic is really slanted 00:19:56.900 --> 00:20:00.180 towards Shane. So you remember that scene where 00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:02.980 Ilya is watching Shane do his interview in French? 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:05.079 He says, how does it feel to be perfect? But 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:07.259 you do a bunch better than me, right? Mr. Perfect. 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:08.940 And he's saying that because Shane's speaking 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:12.319 French. And I'm like, hello, Ilya. You're bilingual 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.119 too. I mean, he doesn't recognize the value. 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.680 Of that. And he's bilingual. Shane's bilingualness, 00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:23.440 I guess, makes him Mr. Perfect. But Ilya's isn't 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:27.440 valued in the same way because it's not the preferred 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:30.839 language in the Western lens. And Ilya swallows 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.259 that messaging whole. He doesn't recognize that. 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:37.009 You're so right. It's not the preferred language, 00:20:37.109 --> 00:20:39.490 even though you are bilingual and you also had 00:20:39.490 --> 00:20:41.509 to learn English. You would think that's impressive 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:45.009 to people that he also knows two languages, but 00:20:45.009 --> 00:20:47.950 it's not. What I love about the show is how Connor's 00:20:47.950 --> 00:20:50.529 story and Jacob Tierney just take this language 00:20:50.529 --> 00:20:53.890 element so seriously and so respectfully. I mean, 00:20:53.890 --> 00:20:56.529 they hired a Russian dialect coach, right? So 00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:59.250 clearly Connor took it very seriously. Yeah, 00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:02.259 it was impressive. Because it's not just like 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:04.359 his accent is hot. They're talking about language 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.119 and how it informs power, specifically what it 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.460 means to be an immigrant. So we know that Ilya 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:12.380 is not fluent in English. Yeah, well, Ilya may 00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:14.859 be reading The New Yorker by the end of episode 00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:18.359 six. I read The New Yorker now. See, I'm objectifying 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.339 your hot Russian accent. But anyway, I digress. 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:24.799 What else is new? What else is new? I know, I'm 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.019 such a distraction. So go on, go on. You're saying 00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:29.079 he's not fluent. Right. So if you think about 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.380 it, language is power, right? So when you are 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:34.019 fluent in a language that someone else is not, 00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:36.519 you have the power, you have the upper hand. 00:21:36.740 --> 00:21:39.160 You also get to be complex in that language. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.019 You get nuance, right? So you get to be smart. 00:21:42.410 --> 00:21:45.390 out loud. In your second language, you can feel 00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:47.849 reduced to the simple version of yourself, right? 00:21:47.970 --> 00:21:50.029 If you remember in episode one at that press 00:21:50.029 --> 00:21:53.150 conference where their journalist asks both Shane 00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.509 and Ilya that long, nuanced question, and you 00:21:56.509 --> 00:21:58.930 could just like tell Ilya's like, what are you 00:21:58.930 --> 00:22:01.589 talking about? Shane in that moment realizes 00:22:01.589 --> 00:22:04.029 for the first time how hard this must be for 00:22:04.029 --> 00:22:06.589 Ilya. Ilya in that moment doing that internal 00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:09.690 math, listen to the words, translate the words, 00:22:09.829 --> 00:22:13.730 understand the words, respond. and most importantly, 00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:17.869 don't look stupid. Don't confirm any stereotypes 00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:21.450 in a public setting. And Shane is like, I'm going 00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:23.849 to help him out. He taps a little foot. He's 00:22:23.849 --> 00:22:25.730 like, I got you. He does. I love that. It was 00:22:25.730 --> 00:22:28.269 such a brilliant scene. I think it just goes 00:22:28.269 --> 00:22:30.769 to show, even though we're kind of saying Shane 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:34.150 isn't getting it, but he's so inherently empathetic 00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:37.230 and sweet, you know, Shane. He gets part of it. 00:22:37.269 --> 00:22:40.009 He gets part of it. He gets the language barrier 00:22:40.009 --> 00:22:42.950 part. And hey, points for Shane for that. So 00:22:42.950 --> 00:22:46.450 as soon as Shane's done speaking, Ilya, he's 00:22:46.450 --> 00:22:48.430 trying to be funny to everyone around. And so 00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:50.470 he basically is like, you know, what he said. 00:22:50.589 --> 00:22:53.049 And everyone laughs and it's all funny for everyone. 00:22:53.109 --> 00:22:55.509 But I know why he did that. It makes perfect 00:22:55.509 --> 00:22:57.990 sense. That's what immigrants do, right? They'll 00:22:57.990 --> 00:22:59.990 use their charm. They'll deflect. They'll like 00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:03.069 use body language to regain some semblance, some 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:05.549 control of the situation because it doesn't. 00:23:05.609 --> 00:23:08.509 feel good to not understand what someone is saying 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:10.829 to you especially in public when you're this 00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:13.589 elite athlete too right side note i saw this 00:23:13.589 --> 00:23:15.109 video of a woman she was having a conversation 00:23:15.109 --> 00:23:17.759 with her friend And her friend made fun of a 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.279 word she said in a thick accent, right? Basically, 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.000 like you sound really funny when you say it that 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.279 way. And the woman who said it, the non -native 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.119 speaker, she says, in my language, in my native 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.960 language, I am so smart. Everyone understands 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.579 me. I have multiple degrees. I can speak in beautiful 00:23:34.579 --> 00:23:37.039 prose. I could write like everyone I know thinks 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:39.180 I'm so intelligent. But when I speak English. 00:23:39.819 --> 00:23:41.960 Everyone thinks I'm an idiot. And that's the 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.539 thing that people don't understand about accents. 00:23:44.740 --> 00:23:47.559 Like accents do not mean less intelligent. They 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:50.019 don't mean like I don't know enough. Accents 00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:53.880 mean I know more than one world. And I felt when 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:56.680 she said that, I felt it just like I felt it 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.460 when like Ilya was very clearly uncomfortable, 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:01.480 didn't know how to handle that question. And 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:03.700 when Shane rescued him, this might be the time 00:24:03.700 --> 00:24:05.500 I might start crying. I don't know. I'll right 00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:07.240 there with you because. You know, when I said 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.359 I lost my accent in two months, and some of it 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.119 is because, yeah, I was a kid when I came here, 00:24:12.220 --> 00:24:16.220 but obviously I got the message. You must lose 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:19.900 your accent. Lose this accent. Otherwise, you're 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:22.940 just, you're dumb, actually. You're less intelligent, 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.240 like you said. Yeah, you know, listen, I often 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.460 think about my mom, you know, and, you know, 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.799 we've been in this country for over 30 years, 00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:34.559 right? My mom speaks English really well, but 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.299 obviously she carries an accent. And I know that 00:24:37.299 --> 00:24:40.220 to her, it's her deepest shame, which is like 00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:43.240 so freaking hard, right? Listen, she's the smartest 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:45.279 person I know. She holds multiple degrees. She's 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.880 a computer programmer. She's a history buff. 00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.599 But when she speaks in English, she feels like... 00:24:50.829 --> 00:24:53.210 people think she's dumb. And that just gives 00:24:53.210 --> 00:24:56.029 her a huge complex. Yeah, because of the accent, 00:24:56.150 --> 00:24:58.809 because it might take her an extra 30 seconds 00:24:58.809 --> 00:25:01.809 to get a sentence out. Right. And so I feel it 00:25:01.809 --> 00:25:05.710 so deeply in my soul. And so when I watch Ilya 00:25:05.710 --> 00:25:08.269 struggle and when he says things like English 00:25:08.269 --> 00:25:10.150 is too hard right now, I'm like, let me hug you. 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.240 Let me make you feel better. And it explains 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.420 why he sometimes feels like a little like extra 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:16.279 because when you can't control language perfectly, 00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:18.859 you control your tone, you control your charisma, 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.019 right? You control the room. Yeah, you're using 00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:23.720 snark, you know, to cover up a vulnerability, 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.759 right? We all do that. Right, exactly. I remember 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.740 when I first came to the U .S. and I went to 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:32.910 school in India. in an English medium school, 00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:35.069 which basically means that everything was taught 00:25:35.069 --> 00:25:37.130 in English and not Tamil, which is the other 00:25:37.130 --> 00:25:40.269 language I speak. I just finished third grade 00:25:40.269 --> 00:25:43.130 in India when I came to the U .S. And when we 00:25:43.130 --> 00:25:47.170 enrolled in school for me, they wanted to hold 00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:49.759 me back because I was a little younger. And they 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:52.460 also wanted me to be in ESL, you know, English 00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:55.480 as a second language. And I remember at eight 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:58.319 years old, I just felt so much shame about that. 00:25:58.539 --> 00:26:00.380 And you're going to be shocked, Diana, because 00:26:00.380 --> 00:26:03.980 I'm very competitive. Very competitive. Are you? 00:26:04.019 --> 00:26:06.200 Oh, my God. I would never say that about you, 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:11.640 like ever. Your entire wall of degrees. So I 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:13.759 was saying I'm very competitive, right, when 00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:15.960 it comes to grades and stuff, being on top of 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.460 the class. And I just remember feeling so, so 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:21.339 upset as this eight -year -old, like insulted 00:26:21.339 --> 00:26:24.920 to my core. And there's nothing wrong with learning 00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:27.259 English as a second language, right? Like you 00:26:27.259 --> 00:26:30.200 did at all. You know, I just sort of, I think, 00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:33.180 bristled at the assumption that I had to be held 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.400 back. I mean, and the principal, to her credit, 00:26:36.460 --> 00:26:38.880 she wasn't being mean or rude. She thought like 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.440 genuinely that this would help. And I just remember 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.980 my mom having this conversation talking about 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.140 our moms. Oh, my gosh. Moms, immigrant stories, 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.039 Ilya, Shane. I mean, we can have an entire mom 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.700 episode. Like being a sobbing, sobbing mess. 00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:57.480 But OK, so I remember my mom having this conversation 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:01.170 with the principal and how I just felt. was sort 00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:04.329 of the powerlessness of our position there as 00:27:04.329 --> 00:27:07.210 new immigrants. Because, you know, as a child, 00:27:07.349 --> 00:27:09.829 you think of your parents as sort of infallible, 00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:12.670 right? They can fix it. They'll fix it. They'll 00:27:12.670 --> 00:27:15.589 fix everything. And I think at that moment, I 00:27:15.589 --> 00:27:20.930 saw firsthand as this child, how being this new 00:27:20.930 --> 00:27:24.829 immigrant in this position, how fragile your 00:27:24.829 --> 00:27:29.799 parents are. Kind of as they try to assimilate 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.980 into this new world, it's like you can see all 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:37.019 of those vulnerabilities laid bare. I think that 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:39.400 developed, at least for me, I mean, I hope it 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:42.000 developed for me a sense of empathy. Definitely 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.680 made me more mature before my age. But God, it's... 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:50.039 It's so hard to watch your parents struggle, 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:52.799 like you said, after 30 years for you and your 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.019 mom about how she speaks and that self -consciousness. 00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:58.819 And me as an eight -year -old at that moment, 00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:01.480 seeing my mom figure out how to explain to the 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:03.859 principal, she didn't need to, you know, hold 00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:07.779 me back. And in India, this would have never 00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:09.759 stood. You know, she would never take that. She 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:13.640 also is very competitive about my academics. 00:28:15.819 --> 00:28:19.339 Right. But she was just so frozen in that moment. 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:21.940 So anyway, I didn't get help back. I went back 00:28:21.940 --> 00:28:24.339 to the principal and I like brought her all these 00:28:24.339 --> 00:28:27.539 little certificates and awards and like prizes 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:31.059 that I got up to third grade. And I like made 00:28:31.059 --> 00:28:33.539 my case to her. I like presented this. It was 00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.920 a PowerPoint. Years old. Yeah. Before you asserted 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:41.500 your power. I did. It's funny that you talk about 00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:45.619 being held or almost held back because I did 00:28:45.619 --> 00:28:48.279 get held back. I was in sixth grade back in the 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:50.279 Soviet Union. But when we came here, because 00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.819 the school that I was going to did not have ESL 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:56.140 services, they figured out the best way to bridge 00:28:56.140 --> 00:28:59.000 the gap is to just put me a grade lower. And 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.140 they did that to both me and my brother, which 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:04.420 was like not great. Not a good feeling. I had 00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:06.660 really good grades just because I didn't have 00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:08.900 the language. I wasn't like smart enough to be 00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:10.819 in the grade that I'm supposed to be in. Felt 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:13.940 like shit. You know, I get you. Yeah, exactly. 00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:15.880 Except I wasn't able to plead my case. I was 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:17.960 just like, OK, I guess this is what I do. You 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:20.519 know, you actually had a language barrier. OK, 00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:23.589 it's so interesting that. Both of these moments 00:29:23.589 --> 00:29:26.190 were just core memories for us. Because also 00:29:26.190 --> 00:29:28.069 you're a kid, so like everything is so much more 00:29:28.069 --> 00:29:30.289 intense. No one likes to not fit in when they're 00:29:30.289 --> 00:29:31.890 a kid. And especially when you're an immigrant. 00:29:31.950 --> 00:29:33.630 You said something about code switching earlier 00:29:33.630 --> 00:29:35.309 in this episode when we were talking about like 00:29:35.309 --> 00:29:38.509 accents, which again, relevant here. And I think 00:29:38.509 --> 00:29:41.609 Ilya code switches a lot around language too. 00:29:41.690 --> 00:29:43.930 Not just like actually speaking part, but the 00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:46.250 way like he uses his charm and sarcasm with his 00:29:46.250 --> 00:29:49.069 teammates. So like you can't be fluent enough 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.329 to be authentic. So when you wear... this armor 00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:54.490 when you're funny and sarcastic and playful. 00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:57.789 And Ilya does this really, really well. He uses 00:29:57.789 --> 00:30:00.650 his charm for interviews, banter there, right? 00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:03.190 But when it comes to his emotions, his true, 00:30:03.309 --> 00:30:06.829 deep, deep emotions, his grief, his love, his 00:30:06.829 --> 00:30:09.109 anger with his family, he switches to Russian, 00:30:09.190 --> 00:30:11.670 which makes sense, right? Because he feels in 00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:14.569 Russian. That's like the most common thing for 00:30:14.569 --> 00:30:17.950 him, right? He feels in Russian. And we can see 00:30:17.950 --> 00:30:19.849 that in episode five, when he fights with his 00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:22.680 brother after his death. dad dies in the famous, 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.079 gorgeous tunnel scene. My God, the monologue. 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.339 Right, right, right. Right. But even before, 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:30.119 right, like the monologue, but even before the 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:31.480 monologue, right? Like when he's on the phone 00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:33.480 with Shane at the beginning, Shane asked him 00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:35.779 how he is. And you could see Ilya already struggling 00:30:35.779 --> 00:30:37.640 with words. I mean, yes, he's upset. Obviously, 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:39.220 that thing just happened with his brother. They 00:30:39.220 --> 00:30:41.480 had a fight. His dad died. When Shane asks him, 00:30:41.500 --> 00:30:43.740 he's struggling. He goes, not good, probably 00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:46.640 bad. Like, that's not like the way you would 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:48.859 typically answer if you were fluent, you know, 00:30:48.859 --> 00:30:53.079 right? It was not typical for even Ilya. It was 00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:56.400 so broken. I felt like he was having a really 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.880 hard time. Yeah, you know, he is. He's trying 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.960 to figure out exactly what to say. He feels it 00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:03.539 in Russian. So it's like hard for him to do that 00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:05.680 translation, to do that, you know, mental load 00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:08.420 to translate right now. It's such a common thing 00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:09.859 when you have all these feelings in your native 00:31:09.859 --> 00:31:11.859 tongue, but you just can't get them out. Even 00:31:11.859 --> 00:31:13.740 now, when I want to say something that I know 00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.200 in Russian, but I want to like translate it into 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.299 English, you'll hear me say a lot like it just 00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:21.509 doesn't translate. Some feelings don't quite 00:31:21.509 --> 00:31:25.250 translate. I could translate it literally, but 00:31:25.250 --> 00:31:26.930 it doesn't quite work in English. Right. And 00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:29.329 so I love that moment in the tunnel because, 00:31:29.390 --> 00:31:31.589 again, like Shane finally understands that Ilya 00:31:31.589 --> 00:31:33.990 needs something else from him. And he gives him 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:37.650 the space to speak in Russian because Ilya literally 00:31:37.650 --> 00:31:40.009 says English is too hard right now. Shane tells 00:31:40.009 --> 00:31:42.130 him to speak in Russian. He won't understand 00:31:42.130 --> 00:31:45.069 it, but maybe it will help. OK. As you say that, 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:49.380 I am completely struck by that. feel like I just 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:51.319 thought of it right now, like a lightning bolt. 00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:55.779 Because I said before that this is the one space 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:58.460 where it feels like the power dynamic between 00:31:58.460 --> 00:32:02.700 Shane and Ilya is really unequal. And then Shane 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:05.220 is actually flipping the script here. He's giving 00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:08.240 up some of that power. He's actually kind of 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:11.329 putting himself in a position. where he's the 00:32:11.329 --> 00:32:13.569 one who doesn't understand the content of the 00:32:13.569 --> 00:32:16.410 words, but he understands what it means. He doesn't 00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:19.910 know exactly what he's saying, but he understands 00:32:19.910 --> 00:32:23.269 what it means because he closes his eyes. I mean, 00:32:23.269 --> 00:32:26.690 he's clearly, clearly moved by it. It's almost 00:32:26.690 --> 00:32:30.250 as if the emotion is enough to understand. Sorry, 00:32:30.349 --> 00:32:33.549 totally interrupted, but I just thought of it. 00:32:33.819 --> 00:32:36.119 As you said it. No, you know what? And it's totally 00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:38.240 cool. I love that. Perhaps this is how we get 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:39.759 our light bulbs. You know, like no matter how 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:41.799 many times you and I discuss it, I'm always like, 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.500 oh yeah, like that's such a great point. I didn't 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:45.500 even think of that. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like Shane 00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:49.380 gives up his power, right? Shane offers Ilya 00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:53.400 a safe space where the immigrant is finally not 00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:56.940 forced to compress himself for someone else's 00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:59.440 comfort, right? And we do that often because 00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.339 even though we're immigrants and we have less 00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:05.119 power in... whatever given situation especially 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.279 when we're new immigrants we're still trying 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.579 to make the other person comfortable with our 00:33:10.579 --> 00:33:13.440 lack of language just to make sure they can understand 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.539 us it's like such a messed up dichotomy i'm uncomfortable 00:33:16.539 --> 00:33:18.619 because i don't speak the language but i don't 00:33:18.619 --> 00:33:20.599 want you to be uncomfortable and think of me 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.039 in some other like way Yeah, it's a total, total 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:26.279 mindfuck. It's a total mindfuck. It really is. 00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:28.259 And finally, Shane gives him this opportunity 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:31.880 for emotional truth. Ilya lays it all out, unloads 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.220 in one of the most gorgeous scenes ever, the 00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:38.619 Russian monologue. I cannot tell you. I cannot 00:33:38.619 --> 00:33:41.079 tell you how many times I have listened to that 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.140 monologue. At least 20 times. Probably more. 00:33:44.259 --> 00:33:46.480 I believe it. Probably more. I have it saved 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.900 on my phone. I have fallen asleep to it. This 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.180 is maybe too much. I'm sharing too much. Diana, 00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:53.880 calm down. Is there such a thing in this podcast? 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:58.680 No. But listen, here's a flex. I don't need the 00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.640 subtitles. I do not need the subtitles. I can 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:05.880 listen to it. I can hear it with my whole chest 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.699 because I don't need the subtitles. And because 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.039 I could like listen to it multiple times, I just 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:14.260 like close my eyes and listen to it. Just kind 00:34:14.260 --> 00:34:17.539 of let the words wash over you. Like Shane, like 00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:20.059 Shane, like Shane. But I actually understand 00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:23.000 it. And it's so gorgeous. The way he speaks in 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.420 Russian, the way he expresses his emotions, his 00:34:25.420 --> 00:34:28.469 grief, his pain, his love for Shane. Shane. He's 00:34:28.469 --> 00:34:31.070 never able to do that in English. Not at first. 00:34:31.130 --> 00:34:32.909 Right. Even when he does tell Shane he loves 00:34:32.909 --> 00:34:36.289 him in English later, he still hasn't been able 00:34:36.289 --> 00:34:38.650 to have a conversation with Shane about all the 00:34:38.650 --> 00:34:41.949 hurts. And so it's much easier for him to be 00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:44.349 emotional in the language in his mother tongue. 00:34:44.510 --> 00:34:47.110 Right. Right. Right. Right. I mean, it's called 00:34:47.110 --> 00:34:49.010 mother tongue for a reason. Right. It's supposed 00:34:49.010 --> 00:34:53.070 to be this place of comfort and ease. But alternatively, 00:34:53.070 --> 00:34:56.389 he's. in Moscow right then. And he's not getting 00:34:56.389 --> 00:34:58.949 a lot of ease or comfort. He's right because 00:34:58.949 --> 00:35:01.829 he's because he's from Moscow, but he's no longer 00:35:01.829 --> 00:35:04.690 of Moscow anymore. You know what I mean? He loves 00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:08.389 Russia, but does Russia love him back? That Russian 00:35:08.389 --> 00:35:11.210 monologue absolutely, absolutely destroyed me, 00:35:11.230 --> 00:35:14.570 too, even though destroyed, destroyed. I did 00:35:14.570 --> 00:35:17.469 not have the benefit of understanding what was 00:35:17.469 --> 00:35:21.030 directly said. And I wish I wish I could. But 00:35:21.030 --> 00:35:23.349 even before that in episode five, do you remember 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:25.750 that scene with Svetlana where they're talking 00:35:25.750 --> 00:35:28.730 about the all -star game? And she's like, I would 00:35:28.730 --> 00:35:31.630 love to see you on a line with Shane. And she 00:35:31.630 --> 00:35:33.789 also is like, all right, you know he's talented 00:35:33.789 --> 00:35:36.050 and hot, okay? And the entire conversation is 00:35:36.050 --> 00:35:38.369 in Russian. And the entire conversation is in 00:35:38.369 --> 00:35:40.449 Russian. And she says something like, I'd love 00:35:40.449 --> 00:35:42.590 to see you on a line with him. And Ilya's like, 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:45.210 well, we play the same position. How could that 00:35:45.210 --> 00:35:47.610 even happen? And she's like, well, you could 00:35:47.610 --> 00:35:50.230 play another position. And he's like, you would 00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:53.170 have you would have him center me. What does 00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:57.889 he say? Mia? Minya? Minya? Minya? Right. Right. 00:35:57.969 --> 00:36:00.789 And he kind of jumps on top of her. Looks like 00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:03.230 like two kids like tussling, you know, it's so 00:36:03.230 --> 00:36:05.630 playful. I don't think we'd ever seen him like 00:36:05.630 --> 00:36:07.449 that, really. Right. Because he's comfortable 00:36:07.449 --> 00:36:11.150 in his native tongue. Right. Right. And so. With 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:13.210 the monologue, even though I didn't understand 00:36:13.210 --> 00:36:16.969 it, I get so teary. I still do. Because like 00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:19.190 you said, he's feeling in Russian and you can 00:36:19.190 --> 00:36:22.570 see it. You could feel his entire emotional range 00:36:22.570 --> 00:36:25.550 change. And all of a sudden, he's like tapping 00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:29.210 into this vault of depth and feeling. There's 00:36:29.210 --> 00:36:32.630 something to be said about the ability to communicate 00:36:32.630 --> 00:36:35.909 authentically in the language you were raised 00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:39.639 in, in your mother tongue. His face changes. 00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:43.000 The way he speaks changes. The cadence changes. 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.719 You know, I've always thought that maybe some 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:51.380 of the emotional distance I felt growing up in 00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:54.500 my parents, especially my mom, was just kind 00:36:54.500 --> 00:36:57.780 of a combination of growing up differently, growing 00:36:57.780 --> 00:37:01.280 up in the U .S. versus in India, you know, generational 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.880 gap, whatever. I was definitely much more comfortable 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.099 being expressive in English, even though, again, 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:09.880 like I said, I know my mother tongue, native 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:12.940 language Tamil pretty well. But with this adult 00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:15.880 lens, finally growing up and just watching my 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.300 mom interact these days with her friends and 00:37:20.300 --> 00:37:24.679 just seeing how free and jokey and open and... 00:37:24.889 --> 00:37:28.510 And young, you know, young. She seems like talking 00:37:28.510 --> 00:37:31.429 in her language. I've just always felt like she 00:37:31.429 --> 00:37:35.389 was so reserved. That's the mom I knew. That 00:37:35.389 --> 00:37:39.550 hit me really hard in the monologue. Okay, there's 00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:42.869 a gap in how we were raised and our cultural 00:37:42.869 --> 00:37:47.469 milieu, etc. But my God, I just think, just like 00:37:47.469 --> 00:37:51.760 with Ilya, not knowing how to communicate. The 00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:54.860 breadth of your feeling, it just must make you 00:37:54.860 --> 00:37:58.619 feel so constricted, like so small. Yeah. Yeah, 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.519 absolutely. I could have told you the same story 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.539 about my mom. I could definitely see that she's 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:06.639 so open and sweet and kind and funny when she's 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:08.780 speaking Russian. And she's so much more reserved 00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:11.809 when she's speaking English. Just one last thing 00:38:11.809 --> 00:38:13.670 about language, and I'll stop, I promise, because 00:38:13.670 --> 00:38:15.309 I feel like we've been talking about this so 00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:18.789 long. So in episode six, there's a part that's 00:38:18.789 --> 00:38:21.210 supposed to be funny to the audience. It's framed 00:38:21.210 --> 00:38:23.530 as comedy, right? When they come back to the 00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:26.090 parents' house, Jane says, I don't want you to 00:38:26.090 --> 00:38:28.619 find out this way. And Ilya puts his hand on 00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:30.760 Shane's shoulder and he goes, we're lovers. And 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.659 we're supposed to laugh, right? Yeah, I have 00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.780 the same reaction as Shane. Like, don't do that. 00:38:35.780 --> 00:38:37.440 Right, because he's like, Shane is immediately 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.320 like, no, Ilya, no, stop. And we're meant to 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.760 laugh because it's funny on the surface, right? 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.639 In Russian, the word is actually so soft and 00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:48.380 so intimate and like vulnerable and affectionate. 00:38:48.460 --> 00:38:50.500 There's no terms for boyfriend and girlfriend. 00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:54.500 So there's no direct equivalent. So he's trying 00:38:54.500 --> 00:38:56.599 to say something like he's my boy. boyfriend, 00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.380 like my beloved. And the closest translation 00:38:59.380 --> 00:39:03.079 he has is lovers. But in English, lovers has 00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:05.860 this icky connotation, sexual, cringy, right? 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:08.559 Especially in front of your parents. And he's 00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:10.099 like, Ilya, my parents are right here. Like, 00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.699 please stop telling him we're fucking, right? 00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:13.639 That like definitely gives a different lens to 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.460 that conversation. Yeah. And so every time Shane 00:39:15.460 --> 00:39:17.179 says, can we please stop saying lovers when his 00:39:17.179 --> 00:39:19.659 dad even says it, you know? Ilya, if you look 00:39:19.659 --> 00:39:23.019 at his face, he's genuinely confused. And later 00:39:23.019 --> 00:39:26.010 he finally finds the word boyfriend. his mind. 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:28.449 He was probably looking for it forever. You know, 00:39:28.449 --> 00:39:29.969 and Shayna's like, my boyfriend? And he goes, 00:39:30.050 --> 00:39:31.969 really? A boyfriend? And Ilya's like, yeah, I 00:39:31.969 --> 00:39:34.449 think so, probably. I thought when Ilya first 00:39:34.449 --> 00:39:36.969 says it, I honestly thought Ilya was kind of 00:39:36.969 --> 00:39:39.690 being like a little cheeky. You know what I mean? 00:39:39.809 --> 00:39:43.190 Yeah. Kind of snarky. He's kind of a snarky guy. 00:39:44.030 --> 00:39:47.489 Right, right. That Raider shirt, to me. Well, 00:39:47.530 --> 00:39:49.349 he does do a little bit of rage, basically. Right, 00:39:49.349 --> 00:39:52.590 right. No, but he's literally no word. No word 00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:54.190 for boyfriend, girlfriend. Nothing like that. 00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.000 So that's that's why you think he was puzzled 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.900 because there was no translation. Right. Lover 00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:03.519 is the closest thing he has. So bring that up 00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:05.539 because I think that is supposed to be funny. 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:07.440 But like to me, I'm like, yes, it's funny. But 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.440 like, I also understand why he's using the word. 00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:12.119 OK, we've talked a lot in this episode about 00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:14.760 Ilya, some about Shane, a lot about ourselves. 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:18.079 But I feel like a discussion about heated rivalry 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.619 and the immigrant experience would be incomplete 00:40:21.619 --> 00:40:25.159 without talking about Eunice. So Eunice, first 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:27.900 -gen Canadian, right? Remind me again. Yeah, 00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:30.920 yeah, yeah. She was born there. Yeah. I think 00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:34.320 she's the version of the immigrant story that 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.780 gets the social approval. You know what I mean? 00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:40.639 She's educated. She's professional. She's fluent. 00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:44.860 In English, she's assimilated at least externally, 00:40:45.219 --> 00:40:48.199 right? The word I think for that is the model 00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:52.699 minority. And I also find it interesting because 00:40:52.699 --> 00:40:55.920 she's at this intersection of both gender and 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.599 immigration because she's both a good immigrant 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.539 and a good woman, right? Like that's her role. 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:06.179 I think for me, that stereotype is very resonating 00:41:06.179 --> 00:41:09.840 because I see... Actually, a lot of myself and 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.260 Yuna. It's like looking in a mirror for me, you 00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:15.809 know? Do everything right. Be perfect. So in 00:41:15.809 --> 00:41:18.349 episode one, do you remember right after Shane 00:41:18.349 --> 00:41:20.630 films that commercial with Ilya? You know, the 00:41:20.630 --> 00:41:21.929 commercial I'm talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:41:22.269 --> 00:41:25.769 Right after the commercials filmed, it cuts away 00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:28.349 to Shane and Yuna. And then they're talking about 00:41:28.349 --> 00:41:32.769 his endorsement. And Yuna says, remember what 00:41:32.769 --> 00:41:36.269 else this means. For me, I like I really remember 00:41:36.269 --> 00:41:38.730 that line. And Shane goes, I remember the way 00:41:38.730 --> 00:41:41.989 he said it. You know. He's heard this conversation. 00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:44.730 He's had this conversation before with his mom. 00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:47.889 And Yuna says a whole lot of kids will be looking 00:41:47.889 --> 00:41:50.590 up to you. Kids who don't usually see themselves 00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:53.110 here, meaning here being professional hockey. 00:41:53.530 --> 00:41:58.099 Right. I just. That scene, often in my mind, 00:41:58.179 --> 00:42:01.179 juxtaposed with that coming out scene at David 00:42:01.179 --> 00:42:03.599 and Yuna's cottage. Shane has this moment with 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:07.440 his mom alone and he apologizes to her for being 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.739 gay. He says, I tried not to be. And you can 00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:14.039 see Yuna is completely gutted by that, right? 00:42:14.139 --> 00:42:16.599 She says, oh, look at me, look at me. And she's 00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:19.340 like searching for his eyes and says, you have 00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:23.420 nothing to apologize for. I'm sorry I made you 00:42:23.420 --> 00:42:25.800 feel like that. you couldn't tell me. I really 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:27.760 don't have words for that scene. I mean, you 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.719 have the monologue, but from an emotional perspective, 00:42:30.980 --> 00:42:33.079 this is the scene I think I watch over and over. 00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:36.960 Because I think she realizes, at least this is 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.519 my interpretation of what happened, that despite 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:43.719 all of the love and support she poured into this 00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:47.019 boy, her baby, something in their relationship 00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:50.679 kept him from really being honest with her or 00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:53.800 himself, honestly. She's maybe thinking about 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.260 all the sort of implied messages he's been getting 00:42:57.260 --> 00:43:00.219 even from her. And that's why my mind connects 00:43:00.219 --> 00:43:02.960 that conversation with the, you know, remember 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.139 who else is watching, who else is looking at 00:43:05.139 --> 00:43:07.460 you from the beginning. Maybe she's thinking, 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.500 you know, hey, did I do the right thing even 00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:13.719 though I did everything out of love? And as a 00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:17.000 parent, as a mom, You know, maybe trying to create 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.780 something that resembles the love and the support 00:43:19.780 --> 00:43:23.659 Yuna gives. Right. But also a hard work attitude 00:43:23.659 --> 00:43:28.139 that she expects. Yeah. And that just hits so 00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:31.739 hard for me. I mean, it just makes you evaluate 00:43:31.739 --> 00:43:35.119 all of. your parenting messaging that you're 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.400 doing with your kids? What kind of model minority 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:41.639 expectations am I putting on them? What am I 00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:46.320 carrying forward, even unconsciously? And what 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.300 am I passing on, you know? And that just hits 00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:52.579 so hard to me. And I love, love that in that 00:43:52.579 --> 00:43:56.500 scene, she seems to recognize that by saying, 00:43:56.599 --> 00:44:00.349 I'm sorry. I made you feel like you couldn't 00:44:00.349 --> 00:44:03.849 tell me. She takes that. And so that's see, I'm 00:44:03.849 --> 00:44:05.610 getting actually getting goosebumps. It's just 00:44:05.610 --> 00:44:08.250 such a you're going to cry. I cried a single 00:44:08.250 --> 00:44:11.590 time and I thought I would. But now I got I am 00:44:11.590 --> 00:44:13.809 seeing tears in her eyes. This is happening, 00:44:13.909 --> 00:44:17.820 y 'all. Oh, Anusha. I know. You know what? Like 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:20.900 as children of immigrants, you know, immigrants 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:22.599 ourselves, but also obviously we were young. 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:24.400 So we really are like children of immigrants 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:28.059 as well. You know, like there is this idea that 00:44:28.059 --> 00:44:31.079 like you do not disappoint your parents. They 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:33.579 have made all of these sacrifices. Most people 00:44:33.579 --> 00:44:35.219 don't even understand unless you're an immigrant 00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:38.159 yourself. Just how many sacrifices immigrant 00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:40.420 parents make for their children. So when the 00:44:40.420 --> 00:44:43.280 children are growing up, there is. Added pressure 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:47.019 of you cannot disappoint your parents because 00:44:47.019 --> 00:44:50.219 they have made the ultimate sacrifice. And whether 00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:52.840 we realize it or not, we probably are putting 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:57.639 some of that immigrant parent pressure on our 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.300 kids. It's a good point, Anisha. I like that 00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:02.019 you brought that up. I think we definitely, you 00:45:02.019 --> 00:45:05.039 know, the idea of this model minority here definitely 00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.500 plays a part. Yeah, 100 percent. We're approaching 00:45:08.500 --> 00:45:11.300 the end of our show. So you know what that means, 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.500 Diana. It's our moment of sunshine. I hope you're 00:45:14.500 --> 00:45:17.460 ready with yours. I'm so excited. Let's go. So 00:45:17.460 --> 00:45:20.059 my moment of sunshine is actually something that 00:45:20.059 --> 00:45:22.840 happened a few weeks ago. So am I allowed? I'm 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.099 allowed. I'm going to change the rules a little 00:45:25.099 --> 00:45:28.039 bit. We're lawless people here. So this actually 00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:31.159 happened as we were editing episode one. In the 00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.739 middle of editing episode one, I went to a protest 00:45:33.739 --> 00:45:36.769 in our little town. that is actually very relevant 00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:39.949 to the title of this episode. I came home and 00:45:39.949 --> 00:45:42.730 my babies were just sort of like milling around 00:45:42.730 --> 00:45:46.250 me, setting up their own podcast. My husband 00:45:46.250 --> 00:45:49.630 was helping me edit episode one and it just made 00:45:49.630 --> 00:45:53.690 me so happy. And I remember sharing that in our 00:45:53.690 --> 00:45:57.150 text with some other friends and... One of our 00:45:57.150 --> 00:45:59.989 friends said, even in turbulent times, there 00:45:59.989 --> 00:46:02.809 is music and art and love. And I mean, I'm not 00:46:02.809 --> 00:46:05.849 elevating this podcast to art, but it's certainly 00:46:05.849 --> 00:46:08.710 done with a lot of love. It's a labor of love 00:46:08.710 --> 00:46:12.090 in so many ways. So, yeah, I felt all of that 00:46:12.090 --> 00:46:14.829 at that moment. So that was my sunshine. How 00:46:14.829 --> 00:46:17.289 about you? My moment of sunshine is anticipatory. 00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:21.280 Oh, so you're changing the rules, too. All right. 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.900 Well, like we said, we have no rules. No rules. 00:46:23.980 --> 00:46:29.400 And so this Saturday, I am going to a heated 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:35.739 rivalry rave? What? A dance party? I don't know. 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:40.000 I should be sleeping at 9 p .m.? because I'm 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.059 a grown woman. Yeah, I'm a grown woman with kids 00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:45.420 and family and, you know, all this stuff. But 00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:48.639 it doesn't matter because I am going to the Heated 00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.300 Rivalry dance party with one of my girlfriends 00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:54.400 and I'm spending the night in the city and I'm 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:55.719 just going to have the best time. I just know 00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:57.900 it. I'm so excited. It's going to be fun. It's 00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:00.159 going to be like all the things you said, both 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.639 versions playing over and over and you get to 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.179 have like a moment. So that sounds like the dream. 00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.670 I love it. Yeah, I love it. Next week on Everyone 00:47:08.670 --> 00:47:11.769 Deserves Sunshine, we're talking about neurodivergence. 00:47:11.969 --> 00:47:14.969 Okay. We're just talking about all the big topics 00:47:14.969 --> 00:47:17.849 head on, I guess. And perhaps a little more Shane 00:47:17.849 --> 00:47:20.130 -centric that episode will be. Right. I don't 00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:22.269 know why I said it like Yoda, but. Because this 00:47:22.269 --> 00:47:24.789 is the immigrant episode and our English has 00:47:24.789 --> 00:47:28.309 left the building. Anyway, I can't wait to hash 00:47:28.309 --> 00:47:31.250 it all out with you, Diana, and with our listeners. 00:47:31.610 --> 00:47:33.789 Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. 00:47:34.050 --> 00:47:35.789 And if you want to say hi to the girls in the 00:47:35.789 --> 00:47:38.000 crease, find us on Instagram. on Instagram, Facebook, 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:41.519 and threads at everyone deserves sunshine. You 00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:44.219 could email us at everyone deserves sunshine 00:47:44.219 --> 00:47:48.219 at gmail .com. New episodes drop on Mondays. 00:47:48.219 --> 00:47:48.780 See you then.