Welcome to Everyone Deserves Sunshine. I'm Diana.
And I'm Anusha. We're the Girls in the Crease.
Diana, we have listener questions. Oh, that's
exciting. Okay, let's go. I know, very, very
exciting. Okay, so this one's about why exactly
are we calling ourselves Girls in the Crease?
I would like to know this as well. Oh, it is
in fact a hockey reference. As a hockey expert,
maybe, maybe of two weeks, of two weeks. So anyway,
the crease in hockey refers to the goal crease,
which is sort of a semicircle in front of the
goalie. It's a very protective space. It's a
safe space. It's a safe space. Just like this
podcast. And just like us. We're a safe space.
There you go. So there we are, listeners, for
your curiosity. Well, thanks for the hockey trivia.
I know. Should we fucking go on with the show?
Love it. Okay, so this is episode two. The girls
in the crease take on masculinity. I feel like
a little social lubrication is needed before
we take on this pretty heavy topic. A new show.
Should we get the lube going? We absolutely should,
yes. Okay, so what have you been doing with yourself
this week? Well, I've been doing a lot. In addition
to living in the cottage, as I do, as you know
from last time. You'll never believe this, but...
I went to a hockey game on Monday night. First
ever. Flyers. Flyers. So Flyers had their Pride
night on Monday night. I love that. I know. I'm
really excited. I said to one of my friends,
or our friend, I guess. I really want to go to
this hockey game. I feel like that would be the
best way for me to like start, you know, to dip
my toes into the world of hockey, which I am
now very interested in. You're very interested
in hockey. Correct. So our friend, I keep saying
mine, but he is our friend, took me to the hockey
game. He's lovely. And he gave me the entire
experience. We got hot dogs. We got beer. He
even took me to the customer service desk to
get me one of those certificates. Certificates
that says like first game ever. So like a like
a small child minus the beer. Correct. Pretty
much. So me and all the small children, so I
had, so I and all the small children had this
certificate. I will frame it as my favorite ever.
Are you going to color it with crayons? Yes,
as probably all the other children did. As the
other children would. So it was really, it was
actually a lot of fun. Like I had the best time.
At one point I turned around to him, is this
how like every hockey game is? And he's like,
kind of, pretty much. It's a lot of excitement,
a lot of energy, lots of great music. And guess
what they played? What? All the things she said.
Stop. Yep. That tattoo version or the Harrison
version? The tattoo version. And it was awesome
because then they, as they were playing the song,
they showed the kiss cam and two beautiful women
kissed. And it was the best part. Did everyone
go crazy? Everyone went crazy. It was so awesome.
Did everyone seemingly recognize the reference?
Oh, well, so I wore a I'm coming to the cottage
shirt. So not a Flyers shirt. Well, I don't own
Flyers gear because again, first game. Next to
me, or next to us, two women sat who wore the
Rosanoff shirts, the one that Ilya wears in episode
six to go talk to the parents. And so I walked
by at one of the intermissions. I think that's
what they're called, intermissions. Are they?
I want to say yes. Is it like an opera house?
Listeners, please let us know. I think it's called
intermission. I walked by them and like I opened
my hoodie so they could see my shirt. And then
I looked at their shirt and I was like, I like
your shirt. So we had a moment. We had a moment.
We were all so excited. There was a lot of people
there from Heated Rivalry. I am not shocked at
all about this. I mean, you really did go for
this reason. I mean, it was inspiring. Heated
Rivalry inspired you to go to your first hockey
game. Correct. Exactly. You know, my entire Insta
feed is just actually has transitioned from Heated
Rivalry. to just real life hockey. Do you like
that? Honestly, I'm having trouble differentiating.
So I saw this fight scene. I mean, is it called
a scene? I don't know. Intermission scene. You
know, we're doing our thing. It's like kind of
very cinematic. But okay, so there's this fight
and this guy, he just licks the stripe up the
other player's neck. I was like, I mean, that
was like a very sexy lick. But they were fighting.
But they were fighting. I was just, Stunned.
Stunned. And then, you know, the groin stretch?
Yeah, yeah. I saw those. That is not a real move,
but it is a real move. It is a real move. I'm
like, come on. I mean, what the heck? What are
you doing to us? Yeah. What are you doing to
us? Seriously. So, you went to your first Flyers
game. That's probably... A good segue. You like
it? Yeah, let's do it. Nice work. Enough lube.
We're prepped. We're prepped. Let's go. We're
ready to do this. We're ready. Okay. So, you
know, this is a, I had a really hard time. Not
a hard time. I really wanted to do this topic
justice because, I mean. Who better to talk about
masculinity than two women, I guess? You know,
but right, exactly. But I mean, men make decisions
for us all the time. So we're impacted by masculinity
on a daily basis, right? So if you think about
hockey, there's just a lot of these stereotypes
or archetypes of, you know, traditional masculinity,
right? Like what I mean by that is. Ilya and
Shane and Scott and all the other players, they're
functioning in this hyper -masculine professional
sports environment. You're talking about a lot
of toughness, aggression, being very stoic, being
physically dominant, right? I mean, hockey's
known for fighting. And another hockey fact I've
learned, there's actually a position called the
enforcer, right? And it's exactly what it is.
They intimidate. The opposition. This is the
game. I feel like I would be an enforcer. You
would 100%. That's the only position you would
play. You would just body check everyone at all
times. I would love that. That is my dream job.
That's you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I love it. Sign
me up. But you know what? I think that sort of
environment translates off the ice too. So you
have this kind of bro culture. And I don't want
to mix the masculinity. layer theme with the
kind of queer experience layer but I think in
heated rivalry they're kind of related right
because you have all this locker room talk you
could say that's just like shit talking or chirping
or whatever but it feels like The sort of subtle
homophobia is just totally just baked it, even
in Canada. And you can talk a little bit more
about sort of the Russian background. I'm going
to leave that to you because I think you'll do
it justice. For example, like one of the players
calls Ilya a cocksucker. Even Yuna in that scene
in the restaurant, you know, there are many scenes
in the restaurant with David and Yuna. Yeah.
But the one. After their first time they had
sex. And she says something like, you know, and
Shane's explaining YouTube. And you've realized
this is happening years in the past. And like
nobody knows quite what YouTube is yet. And the
video is about. Ilya scoring, what, 50 goals?
What does he say? Nice. No, because they asked
him about 40 goals. Yeah, and he's like, it's
a lie. Liar told you that. I love that line.
It's amazing. And she says, Yuna says something
like, fuck him up the ass. And Shane's just kind
of like, he's like choking. But it's also kind
of like, okay, you're just using these terms
and these phrases freely, right? Freely, yeah.
But the thing is, the people who participate
in this, they're not. bad people they're just
kind of a product of the environment and I think
the show does a really good job of setting the
stage of why Shane and Ilya are the way they
are and why it took them so long to come to terms
with their relationship and their ability to
be authentic right but Even that being said,
when they're in their own world, in their hotel
room, in the condo, in the cottage, they learn
to transcend these boundaries of what it means
to be a man. You can be this sporty, aggressive
hockey player and still be this vulnerable person
who loves another man. You can have confidence,
but not this toxic bravado that we associate
with toxic masculinity. And I just think that
the show does such a good job showing. how we
have to slowly break these rigid rules of what
it means to be a man. Right. That was a lot.
I had a lot of opinions. You did. Wait until
I get going. Oh, I'm ready for you, girl. So
I asked our listeners on threads, I asked them,
what do you think about masculinity and the way
it's portrayed in the show? And one of our listeners,
also our friend, also said, and I quote, masculinity
isn't physical strength. It's strength of character.
Both Ilya and Shane are very competitive still.
They are the captains of their teams. They are
high performers. One and two all the time. Right?
And so you think about it, like how are they
portraying what it means to display good and
healthy masculinity? There's the softness, the
caretaking, the tenderness. There's the emotional
courage, the honesty. And then there's something
like called emotional responsibility to one another,
which we don't see often in traditional. masculinity,
whether we want to call it toxic or not, right?
Like, just even when it's not toxic, we don't
see a lot of this thing, a lot of this type of
masculinity in our culture and society and all
of the media that we consume. Ilya and Shane
display that, granted, in the beginning, it's
not as much. Like, you don't see it as much,
even though you do. Like, in the very beginning,
like, Ilya very quickly clocks that Shane is
sensitive and that he has you know the he could
have a panic attack and so there's a lot of care
with like Ilya does care about Shane in some
ways and he shows him affection with his words
and his you know gestures and and his physicality
even right but if you remember that The episode
for the Tuna Melt episode. Tuna Melt. The Tuna
Melt episode. Heartbreak. The heartbreakiest,
breakiest episode ever. I just, I cry every single
time I see that episode. But that episode is
truly one of the pivotal moments where A, their
relationship shifts. And B, they start showing
a lot of this like emotional responsibility to
one another. Really? Which we don't see displayed.
The Tuna Melt episode. The Tuna Melt episode.
Even though like. They broke each other's, like,
heart a little bit. They did. They broke each
other's heart a lot. But prior to that, when
Shane is at his house, first of all, when Ilya
says stay for the first time, he says stay. And
Shane's like, I can't. I told, you know, Hayden
I'll be home. Hayden's your mother? Yeah, Hayden's
your mother. Like, who cares what you told Hayden?
So that's the first time they really are very
close to each other. And they show emotional
vulnerability, right? Like, for Ilya to have
asked them to stay, that's Ilya final. like opening
up a little bit, right? And then when Shane,
when Ilya gets the phone call from his dad and
then, you know, he calls his brother, that really
distressing phone call, Ilya does not want to
share that part of him with Shane. It's, you
know, Ilya is a very closed off person. He was
raised in a very toxic environment, in a place
with not much love and not much care and not
much emotional intelligence and availability.
He wasn't allowed to show his emotions. I can
say that that's very true for a lot of Russian
men and how they grow up, not to mention he's
a star player, right? So there's a lot of that.
But so Ilya does try to hide that part of himself
because I think he has shame in how he feels.
But finally, when Shane looks at him and says,
how's your dad? And Ilya's like, what, you speak
Russian now, you know? And he tries to make a
joke, as Ilya does, because that's self -protection,
right? And deflection, and he protects himself
with the way he talks to Shane a lot. And then
in that moment, you could see Ilya. kind of churn
and he realized that that Shane is a safe person
for him and he's been testing that out the whole
time because he's never really had many safe
people in his life except for like Svetlana right
and she's the only one he's had after his mom
died yeah and so when Shane asks him like is
your dad okay and then instead of just kind of
like answering him Ilya takes him and like hugs
him and like puts him on his chest that is Shane's
emotional responsibility to Ilya and then Ilya
responds to that by like showing this like emotional
courage and tenderness towards Shane you know
what's so interesting that you say because you
say they show a lot of emotional responsibility
and I think they're very poor communicators I
mean like verbally they're very poor communicators
what I feel is really interesting about what
you said about sort of how they take care of
each other especially the gesture that you mentioned
where he puts him on his chest after he talks
about his dad, is that this sport, as we said,
is just this like physically dominant, aggressive
sport. And while they have. a very difficult
time communicating until, you know, they kind
of get to the cottage and, you know, that line,
which I love, for the next two weeks, can we
just try to be honest with what we think and
what we feel? And that's like vulnerability,
right? But they had to be so explicit. Like,
you're like, after 10 years, you're saying this
to yourself. Guys, like, let's get to it. I mean,
they're still boys at the end of the day. Right,
they're still boys. But they use the, like, physicality.
in the rink, their physicality there, which is
used for aggression. And then how they use their
own physical bodies to provide comfort in their
private sphere is just so, that juxtaposition
is really stunning. It just shows that you can
use different aspects of what it means to be
masculine. And it doesn't have to be this like
strict little box, you know? I agree. I think
some of Ilya's initial conversations and how
he talks to Shane and how he treats Shane can
be seen as red flags, especially in Western culture.
I think it's important for us to kind of look
at Ilya from not a Western point of view and
like give him a little bit of the benefit of
the doubt. Because like Ilya, despite the fact
that he is like, you know, a star athlete propped
up by Putin's Kremlin, he still shows so much
positive. masculinity in so many different ways.
You know, he consistently asks for consent. He
consistently checks in. He respects Shane's boundaries
so often and he de -escalates Shane. Like he
knows that Shane needs that from him and he gives
that to him. You know, like I said, yes, there
could be some like red flag banter, but it's
important also to know that Ilya, as I said earlier,
has never been around safe people. So he's really
kind of like testing the ground. Is this person
safe for me? Is this person safe for me to be
my true self, right? It's really self -protection,
right? The little like, you know, picking at
him a little here and there. Like I said. You
know, early, he was never allowed to have really
any feelings and emotions. And so he's learning
how to be a good man, how to model positive masculinity,
good masculinity, despite the fact not having
anyone to model that for him before. Right. Yes,
he has Svetlana who loves him, but he has no,
you know, people who are modeling like positive
behavior for a man. And so that's something that
was really interesting. I said they use their
physicality. to show tenderness. And you said,
what did you say? Ilya kind of de -escalates
him. Yeah. So the first time they meet, they
have this encounter. They have a great time together,
right? It's Shane's first time. So Ilya is definitely
very gentle with him. Ilya can see that Shane
changes, right? And he starts to get a little
freaked out. And he... And he says to Ilya, like,
you're not going to tell anyone. Right. And Ilya
tries. Right. And Ilya tries to have this like
little banter, like, what do you think I'm going
to tell? You know, as he does. And then he really
quickly clocks that Shane cannot handle that
at that moment. And so he backtracks and he's
like, I'm not I'm not going to tell anyone. Right.
And he calms him down. Yeah. And then in the
second time, the second sexual encounter, when
Ilya wants to have sex and Shane is. you know,
worried and afraid and probably, you know, is
not ready yet. When Ilya asks what color his
dildo is. Yeah, in that part. When Ilya says,
like, we need to, you know, we're going to make,
you know, we're going to do it next time. And
Shane. Ilya again clocks that Shane is not well.
And he puts his hand on his chest and he's like,
Hollander, you're having a panic attack. Because
Shane can't figure out where they're going to
meet. He's in his mind. He's like, what hotel?
Right. He's in his mind. And so like this is
Ilya being incredibly. And remember, they're
also very young at that point. Right. And so
Ilya is very perceptive in that moment. Ilya
literally says. Shane, chill. It's just a plan
to fuck. It's a plan to fuck. It's a plan to
fuck. Hollander, it's a plan to fuck. You're
having panic attacks. Right, exactly. You're
having panic attacks. I really always enjoy when
you talk about sort of the Russian experience
because I think it just, again, I think that's
part of the reason you're always weeping maybe.
I cry all the time. I know. She cries all the
time. But I think there is something, you know,
there's this idea that, you know, you're connecting.
with the show in so many ways. And the language
is probably one. But one of the things that you
said was, you know, Russian men growing up in
that culture who were sort of, I don't want to
say victims, but just a product of that sort
of inability to really express themselves. It's
like baked in, right? You know, but. I just think
for Ilya, the only person who seemed to ever
cultivate that in him was his mom. Right. And
she died. And I really and he says it, too, in
the sixth episode. Not the sixth. Not the sixth.
The fifth episode. He says it like my my brother
hates me. And he knows that his brother in the
monologue. Yes. During that monologue. And he
says, I know my brother hates me and I know why.
My interpretation was that his brother and father
hate him because. He got the talent, right? Like,
he got the talent. But he's the sensitive one.
He's the soft one, right? And he's not like them,
even though he, you know, is drinking and partying
and spends money and sleeping with all sorts
of people. Yeah, the Russian folk boy. Right.
He's playing the part. He's playing the part.
But underneath, they can see that he's not one
of them. Right. There's a lot to that sort of
internalized hatred. I mean, his brother calls
him the hard F multiple times through the show.
And that, I mean, that was so, like, that was
so hard to take. But, you know, you're like,
oh, that's such homophobic language. And it is.
It is. But then you see, like. It's so common
in Russia, though. You see also the Canadian
side, what we talked about before. It's just
baked in the culture, whether it's overt or covert.
It's just, it's in there, right? Ilya, like,
not just the part of him that's bi or queer,
that part, but the part of him that's soft. He's
never that. He has had to internalize all this,
like, hatred. Right. You know? Because being
soft to men. a lot of the times is like shameful
like they're ashamed of that part they think
it's weakness right because again they're like
trapped in this in this cage in this prison of
what masculinity should look like and you know
Ilya does like real strength right is letting
someone you love seeing you scared and seeing
you grieve you're not like you know, not like
performing invulnerability. Right. So, you know,
for example, like when, you know, the Russian
monologue. Right. He's he's literally allowing
Shane, even though it's in Russian. So there
is some protection. Right. For Ilya, like Shane
won't know exactly what I'm saying or anything,
what I'm saying, but I get to be vulnerable.
nonetheless right the the all -star game in in
episode five when when shane comes over and they
go back to ilia's hotel and and shane has that
serious conversation with him and he's he comes
out to him he comes out to him right exactly
and ilia And again, he's he's closed off a little
bit. Right. Like, he's just worried. And then
Ilya, I think he finally sees that, like, Shane
is not kidding. Like, this is a serious conversation
that they absolutely have to have. And he sits
down next to him. And, you know, Shane starts
telling him, like, this is not we're not just
fucking like we are. You feel it, too. You feel
it, too. Right. And Ilya tries to be like, no,
no, no. And then I can't. And then and then.
Right. And then Shane is like, well. It felt
like we were something. And I was like, we can't.
We can't be something. And Shane, like, well,
like, what if we could? And he's like, it doesn't
fucking matter. And you could see the hurt, right?
It's not just he's trying to hurt Shane. He's
not. He is himself hurting. And he's trying,
again, he's trying not to show those emotions.
And finally, when Shane just, like, really softly,
like, I like you. I like you too much, right?
And, you know, why can't we? And finally, he's
like, because Russia, like almost like, what
don't you fucking understand here? This is very
obvious. Right. Like, it's very obvious. Shane,
it's been eight years. Like, have you not learned
about Russia? Right. And he's like, my dad is
police. My brother is police. Like, you know,
I don't want to find out what will happen to
me in Russia. It's the first time he tells Shane
that his mother actually died. Right. And he.
He cries. Ilya cries for the first time in front
of Shane. And like, dude, for a man to do that
in any media format, we haven't seen too much
of that, right? Like he cries. Shane comes and
hugs him and holds him. That physical love. And
it's kind of a little reversed, right? Because
he's usually, Ilya, like doing that and giving
that support. It's a little reversed. That scene.
It's this, I got you. They're constantly like,
I got you, you know? I just remember watching
that scene and thinking all of a sudden how young
Ilya looked, like when he turned his head away
and started to cry. I was like, oh, my gosh,
he's been this sort of semi -orphaned boy just
trying his best to live in a foreign land. And,
you know, such a good scene. I love that scene.
So I just think that as an audience. And women,
I really think we're like longing for that, right?
That emotional connection. And our friends, you'd
said like, oh, some people, what did you say?
Some of our friends and other people watching
with us think Ilya is an asshole, right? I'm
just saying a lot of people in my life have called
me an asshole. And you're one of the best people.
Thanks. No, there's no snark there. No, I know
sounded like it. But no, you are one of the best
people. Right. And so when people call Ilya an
asshole, I get a little offended. Right. You
know. So, OK, what's so funny is that after I
first watched this show for the first time, early
days, I was almost high. Right. Yes. And people
said that to me and I was so annoyed. hilariously.
But I told my husband, I felt disrespected. And
my husband could not understand what I meant.
You felt disrespected when people said Ilya was
an asshole? Yeah, in the beginning. And then
our mutual friend, you know, she said something
like that. And in our group text, I like eviscerated
one of her favorite books, Wuthering Heights.
I don't even know why. Because they are our personal
friends, Ilya and Shane. And then I texted her
separately apologizing for all the things I said
about Wuthering Heights. I admit it's absolutely
insane. But now that we're doing this podcast,
I feel more balanced, like more circumspect,
you know, because I actually love all these interpretations
of the show. I feel like the best part is that
these characters at the... at the heart of them.
You know, they grow and they learn and they change
and they get better. And there's hope for that.
I feel like that's what the joy of the show is,
is that it shows the capacity for an environment
to change, people to change, the way rigid norms
of masculinity can be changed and challenged.
And you just don't need to be perfect. You just
need to reflect. and be introspective. You can
be imperfect, but you're not a bad person. It
doesn't have to be this dichotomy of good, bad,
toxic, or good masculinity. I just feel like
it lets us sit in nuance in the best way. Right.
And we're missing nuance. We have no nuance.
Nothing has nuance. Everything is like horrible
or the best. Like there's nothing in between,
right? And I agree with you. I think the fact
that the show allows these characters the time
to grow and become who they are. And it allows
us to see men who can come off as perhaps like
closed off or even cold. And it allows us to
see them actually growing into good, kind, respectful,
emotionally available and emotionally intelligent
men. That, again, is something we don't see that
often. I just I love it. I love the way the show
takes on this mass positive masculinity. And
the one other thing I want to say or I want to
say so I really want to talk about consent. I
really want to talk about how. You love the consent.
I love it. You're all about it. I really, truly
love it. Because in this show, consent is such,
like, a masculinity flex here. Right? Like, whereas
in real life and in other forms of media or TV
that we have seen, consent is, like, almost portrayed
as, like, a mood killer. You know, asking for
consent during the time you're having sex or
whatever else. Right? And here, it's like a...
it's like almost like a turn on, right? Because
like their first time when they first have sex,
first of all, even before they have sex, you
know, Ilya asks Shane, like, have you ever done
this before? Whatever. And as soon as Shane says
no, and he feels uncomfortable, he tells them
like, okay, next time, right? He respects that
boundary. When they actually do meet to have
sex for the first time, Ilya keeps checking in.
Is this okay? Are you OK? Is this OK? Four times
at least during their time that night together.
And even when it's not. like that, Ilya, even
before he says to him, don't worry, it will fit
as a joke. Right. But also as a I know you're
nervous. Right. I know you're nervous, but like
this will work. I promise. Right. And so I think
that calms Shane, you know. So it's this like,
you know. Oh, and have you listened to the Empty
Netters podcast? No, I'm doing the other one.
What? Chaos. Oh, I haven't listened to that one
yet. There's a lot. Of content to be consumed.
It's like way too much. The empty netters are
amazing. They're like these three hockey guys.
They have just a regular hockey podcast. And
they got into the show and they review every
single episode. And it is. Truly amazing. They
are the honestly like in real life, the epitome
of good masculinity. They are in love with the
show. They analyze the characters. Right. Exactly.
They analyze the characters. They're invested
in this love story. Like so all three of them,
straight men, all invested in this love story.
Yeah. guys are also like they're so earnest in
their analysis it's not like a joke or any you
know like they're invested in both the romance
and the sort of hockey part and the relationship
right exactly yes it's earnest and you want you
want that we're craving that as women like we
want to see more of that like i'm watching these
random hockey guys talk about the show and i'm
like you're the kind of man that women love right
like and you're so rare or at least we don't
It's not displayed in many places, but they call
Ilya the consent king. I love it because I 100
percent agree. Consent king every single time,
even in the first shower scene. Right. When they're
showering together, they're showering together
and they're both standing there and Ilya starts
masturbating. After Shane checks him out, I mean,
he's like very clearly checking each other out.
Ilya starts masturbating, but also with his eyes,
he's like. Like kind of like, hey, like this
is cool, right? Like this is cool, you know?
And so that's a check -in, right? And when Shane's
like not here, he stops. He stops, right? Not
here, he stops. He doesn't push. He doesn't do
anything. And like, listen, not for nothing,
but like guys in real life, like sometimes they
don't stop, right? And they push. And we as women
know that to be true, you know? So consent, I
think that's why I love consent in this show
so much because we don't see that. We don't see
that in real life. Hardly. Right. We don't see
that in like society. We don't see that in movies
or TV. And seeing that on screen, the way it
was done was like breathtaking to me. Truly breathtaking.
I love that. The show also makes like this masculinity
like accessible to women, you know, and it's
right. But like, you know, as a woman, obviously,
you know, I watch the show and like, you know,
that part where the part in like. the hotel room
in the second i always say which hotel room which
hotel room um i in the second episode after they
had their little like you know you haven't texted
me for six months and it's after ilia wins mvp
you mean chair i mean the chair i mean chair
right uncredited like side note chair feral right
like it makes everyone crazy right that chair
scene but anyway In that moment, we see Ilya
is kind of like taking the dom role in the relationship.
And Shane is a little nervous. Obviously, he's
never done this before. No shit. Right. And so
he said it right. Like in the end, he's like,
yeah, no shit. Yeah. So so they're definitely
there's definitely. If this was a scene between
a man and a woman, you, I, I don't know about
anybody else, but I have and I've watched, you
know, movies like there was a movie called Secretary
a while back where like it was a boss and her
and it was very consensual, but it was definitely
like a dom sub relationship. Right. And I, even
though the woman wanted this in the movie, right,
like the way she was treated and whatever. I
still felt like uncomfortable for her, like uneasy,
right? Watching that scene. Whereas with the
two men, right? Like, yes, like Shane is, I mean,
sorry, Ilya is definitely the dominant one in
this moment, but there's no... inequality there
right like there's no shame for either one of
them they both consent to this very obviously
shane wants that shane clearly wants it as bad
as ilia wants this and it makes scenes like that
accessible to women and they're actually external
equals right correct yeah like like there's nothing
unequal about them completely egalitarian right
yeah And that's also like a really cool way to
display both types of masculinity with them right
now. Yeah, I love that analysis. And I also want
to say, you know, yeah, they're growing, etc.
They're showing their, you know, consent king
vibe, all of it. And I just feel like their story
still, you know, season one ended, but it's also
not. a happy ending. It's an unfinished one,
right? Like that's how real life works. In six
episodes, you don't wrap up your life and decide
after, you know, years of being in the closet
and not, you know, not coming to terms with your
own sexuality. You all like all of a sudden you
decide you're like good to go and you're going
to come out to everyone. That's just not how
real life works. But there's this opportunity
to change, right? You know, so I just feel like
it's so realistic. And like I said, I think it's
that hope of change, the hope of a better way
to be projecting honesty and masculinity. So
I love that. I just I love this show. Even outside
of the show, both Connor Story and Hudson Williams
like portray positive masculinity. And I I love
it. There was an interview with Connor where
he basically said, like, you know, Hudson is
my best friend. And it's really interesting to
watch people like sexualize us, even though we're
just friends. We love being affectionate with
one another. We've been through the craziest
experience and this crazy roller coaster. And
if I have my hand on his leg or we're sitting
down somewhere. And like at some press thing,
he's my friend and I love him. And we just have
that level of comfort. And like that is also
such good masculinity. Right. Because people
just don't understand. Like they don't. Like
they don't want to see men be affectionate toward
one another, as friends even, right? Like, I'm
sorry, but even like in Russia, when men see
each other after like, you know, at some sort
of social event, whatever, they hug, they kiss
each other on the cheek. Like there's still like
some affection, right? Whereas here in America,
like it's not as much. It's more like, you know,
oh, then you must be gay. Right. And that's why
everyone's like questioning their real sexuality.
Which we have no right to like. This masculinity
that's built here in the West is like, I mean,
honestly, around the world, truly. It's like
the public masculinity rules are a cage for men.
It hurts everyone. These rules for masculinity,
they hurt everyone. It literally hurts our society.
I really would love it if this show would open
doors for a lot more content with this. positive
display of masculinity because that is what we
want. We don't want the culturally trained version
of masculinity that's like emotionally unavailable
and shut down. That's defensive. That's hostile.
Like we do not want this. Please listen to what
women want from men. Please listen to us. Arman,
whose name maybe I'm butchering. Scott Hunter.
Scott Hunter. I'm just going to call him Scott
Hunter. You know, the actor who plays him, he
said something really similar too. He said that
You know, in the last few years, we've talked
a lot about toxic masculinity, but we forget
that men are the first victims of it. He goes
on to not just say that men are the only victims
of it, but he's expressing that concept that
you're expressing. Like, if you start off that
way and that's the environment you're raising,
you're kind of perpetuating this cycle. So I
think people, not just women, people are ready.
People are ready. for this kind of show. And
that's, I think, what a lot of the positive reaction
is. Right. And I also want to say, here's one
thing. OK, so we've said all this gloriously
positive stuff and, you know, analysis. But I
will say one thing. Yes, it subverts these tropes
of masculinity, et cetera. But Shane and Ilya,
they're pretty. They're typically masculine,
right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, you'd
say they're really attractive in that way. They're
strong. They're built. They're abs. They're athletes.
They're going out for a date. And you could say
that. You could say, okay, they're athletes.
They're intended to be like that. I totally get
it. But that was a choice, right? And we are
also responding to that choice because no matter
how much I want to like clap for this flip of
masculinity, I'm still like. marinating in the
culture. And I think, okay, so I know you don't
want any book spoilers and I'm not giving it
to you. I 100 % feel like the book does such
a good job sort of being like supporting the
way the show and you get so much more, you get
detail about. the entire sort of universe. But
in the book, there's this scene in the long game.
So season two, I think, Ileana Shane season two.
There's a scene where this other player, they
refer to him in the Tuna Mouth episode. Ryan.
Ryan. Oh, wait, that guy, the guy when he, they
were like talking about him being traded all
the time. And Ileana was like, he's not like
who you think he is or something like that. Yes,
I love that. I love that like throw in. So Ryan
in the long game has this. boyfriend Fabian and
Shane meets them and Ilya meet them for their
first time but they don't they're not out as
a couple Shane and Ilya and at that point and
Fabian's maybe more femme presenting and then
Shane says thanks something like even as a gay
man who's in love with another man and I wrote
this down he couldn't help the knee -jerk reaction
of uneasiness I thought that was so meta to me
I felt like Like Rachel Reed was holding this
mirror up and saying, hey, you're reading this
book, but like think about how you can grow from
where you are. Like think about your inherent
biases. Right. Right. Right. Because many of
us are like very open and progressive and all
these things. But then like, yeah, there are
times where certain people or certain things
or certain events will like challenge us. And
we have to reconcile that. Like we have to figure
out why and hopefully come to a time. So hopefully
there's growth. And there's room for growth.
And then growth can be really joyful. And that's
my favorite part of the whole show. I know. That
it's like all of this can be a really joyful
experience. Right. Speaking of joy, this is my
favorite part of the show already. And it's only
episode two. And I think about all week what
we're going to say here for our moment of sunshine.
You tell me yours first because I went first
last week. OK, awesome. All right. So my moment
of sunshine this week is watching Heated Rivalry
with my husband. It took me a little while to
convince him because he's not like a TV person.
He's not like a romance person. He likes like
sci -fi type stuff more. But anyway, we're finally
watching it together. I'm having a we're having
a great time. I'm having the best time of my
life because I'm so excited to see him react
to the show. Are you like watching him watch
it? Actually, no, but I I'm not. But we're together,
you know, obviously, after the kids go to bed,
and we're really enjoying it. And last night,
we watched episode five. Episode five? Yeah,
episode five. And episode five, and I will fight
anyone if they challenge me on this, because
episode five is the greatest episode on television
ever made. Cinematic masterpiece. Cinematic masterpiece.
Didn't get like a perfect score. Perfect score.
It took Breaking Bad off its like 13 -year run
of being number one, right? Episode five, we
watched it last night. I was so nervous for his
reaction because like, you know, I've been building
this up in my head forever. And I think it's
perfect. I think it's a perfect episode. And
he loved it. He loved it. He loved it. He loved
it so much. We talked about it for like an hour
after. agrees that it is, if not the best, one
of the best episodes ever made for TV. Now, this,
this, you know, I was about to say, like, we
don't, you know, from everything we have seen
as a couple and as individuals, this was one
of the best things we've ever seen. To me, the
best, period. I will fight you if you disagree
with me. I love it. And I'm the enforcer. You
are the enforcer. You will be intimidated. All
right, Anusha, how about yours? Thank you. I
love it, too. So my moment of sunshine is related
to episode four. I tried a tuna melt for the
first time. I felt like I had to do it for authenticity
because I was like, I can't talk about tuna melts.
Oh, my God. No, and I've never had one. Never
had one. So my husband got me one from Wawa.
So for our Canadian listeners, and we have. Canadian
listeners or one Canadian listener who downloads
it multiple times. I don't know. Anyway, for
our Canadian listeners, Wawa is like Tim Hortons,
just for reference. Good, good. So what else?
That's it? That's your moment of sunshine? Are
you going to ask me like what it evoked in me?
That's what I was about to say. I thought you
were just going to keep going. I was waiting
for you. I'm sorry. Yes. So you had the tuna
melt from Wawa. And what did that do for you?
The concept of warm canned. tuna is just like
a little off -putting, but I did eat it. It was
weird at first, but I got into it the more I
ate. So I had to explain to my husband why I
asked for this tuna melt. And they explained
all about episode four, the tuna melt of heartbreak.
And then he pointed out something very important
that the sandwich was actually between sex episodes.
So like a sex melt. And I felt like nothing can
really compare to that kind of tuna melt. But
anyway, that's my moment of sunshine. I don't
know if you know this about me, but I'm a tuna
melt pro. You make them? No. I don't make them.
But my friends and I, when we would party all
night in the clubs, we would go to a diner and
always order tuna melts. That was not my adolescence.
Maybe this is where I went wrong. I did not.
I had a bunch of tuna. I love a tuna melt. I
haven't had it in years, but I think tomorrow
I might have one. You're going to have to go
to Wawa and get a tuna melt. It matters what
bread it is, though. So it has to be like really
good, solid bread. What's good, solid bread?
Like rye, maybe. Oh, mine was just on like a
roll. Like an American bread. No, no, like a
roll. No, no, no, no. You need like solid, like
hearty bread for a good tuna melt because it
has to hold it all together. Yes, it can get
soggy. It can get soggy, correct. I love your
moment of sunshine. I love that you finally had
a tuna melt. Finally. So heated rivalry is changing
lives by making us go see hockey games and eat
tuna melts. Correct. Next week on Everyone Deserves
Sunshine, we're talking about the immigrant experience.
Yes. Join us when we discuss Ilya, his family.
We'll talk about language. We'll talk about language
barriers. Just about what it feels like to be
an immigrant, you know, in this world. Wow. I
wonder if that's like a relevant topic. Well,
as an immigrant. As an immigrant, I have a lot
to say about this. And Yuna, too. Yuna, too.
I think that shapes a lot of how she interacts.
That's also true. Yeah, absolutely. So this topic
is so close to my heart for so, so many reasons,
like you stated. I can't wait to get into it.
Thank you to all the listeners of this little
podcast for sending time with us, the girls in
the crease. Subscribe now, wherever you get your
podcasts. And if you want to say hi to the girls
in the crease, find us on Instagram, Facebook,
and threads at Everyone Deserves Sunshine. New
episodes drop on Mondays. See you then.