WEBVTT - Generated by AI 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.299 Something is changing in our country, and most 00:00:03.299 --> 00:00:12.039 people feel it before they can explain it. Welcome 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.400 to the Steady State Sentinel. I'm Lauren Anderson, 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:17.719 and I've spent more than four decades working 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:20.260 in the fields of national security, intelligence, 00:00:20.579 --> 00:00:23.859 and geopolitics, including nearly 30 years with 00:00:23.859 --> 00:00:27.219 the FBI. I've often joked that I tend to run 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:29.579 toward the things that most people run away from. 00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:34.700 Our guest today, Nina Hachigian, recently wrote 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:37.579 an article for Foreign Affairs magazine entitled 00:00:37.579 --> 00:00:41.880 The Autocrat's Worst Enemy, Why Despots Hate 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.619 Cities and the Mayors Who Run Them. Although 00:00:45.619 --> 00:00:48.719 we don't often think about it, local communities, 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:51.200 both in the United States and around the world, 00:00:51.950 --> 00:00:54.350 are where much of the real governance and day 00:00:54.350 --> 00:00:57.590 -to -day work takes place. Using Nina's foreign 00:00:57.590 --> 00:01:00.530 affairs article as our jumping off point, we'll 00:01:00.530 --> 00:01:03.189 explore why local leadership matters in parts 00:01:03.189 --> 00:01:06.469 of the world that are experiencing growing authoritarianism 00:01:06.469 --> 00:01:10.670 and democratic erosion, how communities can strengthen 00:01:10.670 --> 00:01:13.310 democratic resilience, and frankly, why we should 00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:17.310 care. We'll talk about why people continue to 00:01:17.310 --> 00:01:19.769 place so much trust in those closest to their 00:01:19.769 --> 00:01:22.989 communities. and what role each of us can play, 00:01:22.989 --> 00:01:26.450 if we choose, in strengthening democratic resilience 00:01:26.450 --> 00:01:30.469 where we live. I'm delighted to welcome Ambassador 00:01:30.469 --> 00:01:34.590 Nina Hachigian. Nina is the founder and CEO of 00:01:34.590 --> 00:01:36.890 the Alliance for Local Leaders International, 00:01:37.349 --> 00:01:41.829 a nonpartisan nonprofit dedicated to supporting 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:44.329 and connecting mayors and governors globally 00:01:44.329 --> 00:01:48.569 to solve shared challenges. She's had an extraordinary 00:01:48.569 --> 00:01:52.250 career. spanning diplomacy, local government, 00:01:52.370 --> 00:01:55.129 and international affairs, serving as the U .S. 00:01:55.150 --> 00:01:58.209 Ambassador to the Association of Southeast Asian 00:01:58.209 --> 00:02:01.590 Nations, Deputy Mayor for International Affairs 00:02:01.590 --> 00:02:05.030 for Los Angeles, and the first U .S. Special 00:02:05.030 --> 00:02:07.930 Representative for City and State Diplomacy at 00:02:07.930 --> 00:02:10.810 the U .S. State Department. Nina also served 00:02:10.810 --> 00:02:12.870 on the staff of the National Security Council 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:16.009 during the Clinton administration. She's the 00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:19.629 editor of Debating China, the U .S.-China Relationship 00:02:19.629 --> 00:02:23.569 in 10 Conversations, and co -author of The Next 00:02:23.569 --> 00:02:27.389 American Century, How the U .S. Can Thrive as 00:02:27.389 --> 00:02:31.710 Other Powers Rise. Nina, welcome. It's an absolute 00:02:31.710 --> 00:02:34.490 pleasure to have you with us. And I'd love to 00:02:34.490 --> 00:02:36.849 ask our guests to start off a little bit about 00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:39.610 themselves and their origin story, because we're 00:02:39.610 --> 00:02:41.969 all so much more than our titles and our resumes. 00:02:42.939 --> 00:02:44.740 So if you would share a little bit about how 00:02:44.740 --> 00:02:48.139 Nina became Nina, that would be terrific. Well, 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:50.419 thank you. And thank you so much for having me 00:02:50.419 --> 00:02:55.000 and having this conversation. So I grew up as 00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:00.020 the daughter of an immigrant on my mom's side 00:03:00.020 --> 00:03:05.099 and then a second generation on my dad's side. 00:03:06.099 --> 00:03:09.400 So I think my interest in foreign affairs and 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.469 foreign policy started at a very early age. When 00:03:12.469 --> 00:03:15.330 I went to visit my Armenian grandmother, who 00:03:15.330 --> 00:03:24.030 had as many Armenians fled the genocide, it was 00:03:24.030 --> 00:03:25.969 like visiting another country. Everything smelled 00:03:25.969 --> 00:03:28.310 different, looked different, different language. 00:03:29.509 --> 00:03:34.830 And I just loved her so much and relished those 00:03:34.830 --> 00:03:37.569 times. And then on my mom's side, we went to 00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:42.439 Germany every year, every other year. to visit 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:45.900 with my grandparents. She had left Germany because 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:50.180 of the class constraints, the gender constraints. 00:03:50.659 --> 00:03:56.159 And at the time when she grew up, just a lack 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.659 of acknowledgement about what had happened in 00:03:58.659 --> 00:04:04.479 World War II. So I think, anyway, my interest 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.300 in foreign affairs started very young. I grew 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:12.229 up in New York City, so I already had pretty 00:04:12.229 --> 00:04:16.990 close association with cities until I was 12 00:04:16.990 --> 00:04:21.189 or so and then suburbs after that. Yeah. And 00:04:21.189 --> 00:04:28.129 so, you know, long circuitous route, including 00:04:28.129 --> 00:04:33.629 like a one -year stint as a lawyer, which I realized 00:04:33.629 --> 00:04:39.910 quickly was not my thing. Well, that's great. 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:42.850 And so what was your what was your first role 00:04:42.850 --> 00:04:47.750 then in government? Well, I was actually first. 00:04:48.290 --> 00:04:50.990 It depends on how far back you want to go. I 00:04:50.990 --> 00:04:55.250 was a I was an intern at the State Department 00:04:55.250 --> 00:05:01.329 in law school. Then I worked for a judge for 00:05:01.329 --> 00:05:06.490 a year. Oh, actually, no. Yeah, no. Actually, 00:05:06.529 --> 00:05:09.430 my first role in government was as a legislative 00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:13.269 correspondent to Congressman Bruce Morrison right 00:05:13.269 --> 00:05:19.029 after college. And then I did a stint in law 00:05:19.029 --> 00:05:22.370 school as an intern at the legal advisor's office 00:05:22.370 --> 00:05:26.189 in the State Department. And then I worked for 00:05:26.189 --> 00:05:29.189 a judge. And then I worked for the Federal Trade 00:05:29.189 --> 00:05:35.509 Commission. And then I worked for the NSC when 00:05:35.509 --> 00:05:40.509 I was, I guess, it was 1999 -ish under the Clinton 00:05:40.509 --> 00:05:43.290 administration. And then you said everything 00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:47.649 else. Well, that's actually something we share 00:05:47.649 --> 00:05:49.550 because I'm also born in New York City, which 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:51.990 we didn't talk about before, and started school 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:54.290 there and then out to the suburbs in New Jersey. 00:05:54.329 --> 00:05:56.730 So like you, I had the urban experience and then 00:05:56.730 --> 00:06:00.879 the... suburban experience. And I love that public 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.199 service was something that was a part of who 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.540 you were from a very early part of your life. 00:06:06.699 --> 00:06:09.759 And I think it's so important. And I know we're 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:11.439 going to get into this, but thank you for your 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:13.420 service starting at such a young age because 00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:15.740 it matters. And I think it's a great thing to 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:19.759 be modeling for everyone out there since I think 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:22.920 we both agree. There's not enough attention focused 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.480 on the importance of public service or community 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:28.439 service and how, whether that's in a local town 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.800 or at the federal government level, it makes 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:32.920 such a difference in terms of your participation 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.459 and how you understand the importance of participation. 00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:40.439 And that's something. We've both experienced. 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:42.579 So thank you for that. Thanks for the origin 00:06:42.579 --> 00:06:46.240 story. So let's move into our first substantive 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.139 question. So I'm curious about what inspired 00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:51.759 you to write this article for Foreign Affairs. 00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:56.000 And why do you think that local leadership matters 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.139 in parts of the world that are experiencing growing 00:06:58.139 --> 00:07:01.399 authoritarianism and erosion at the same time, 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:06.720 democratic erosion? When I was the deputy mayor 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:11.360 in Los Angeles for international affairs, that 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:15.579 really exposed me to the power that cities have 00:07:15.579 --> 00:07:20.899 to improve the lives of their residents. And 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:24.740 at that time, we were connected to lots of cities 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:28.540 around the world for various reasons. you know 00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:30.339 whether we're trying to learn something from 00:07:30.339 --> 00:07:33.040 them or solve a shared challenge together or 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.120 it's a trade opportunity or or whatnot and i 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.360 had heard about the city of budapest and how 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:44.240 um the mayor there was really trying to preserve 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:48.480 democratic space and you know while being attacked 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:55.319 constantly by by victor orban so Mayors and governors 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.860 are really on the front lines of protecting freedoms 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:02.420 and renewing democracy. The work of building 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:05.519 it, the work of protecting it really happens 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.220 at the local level or can happen at the local 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:11.899 level when it's not going well at the national 00:08:11.899 --> 00:08:15.300 level. And cities, after all, invented democracy 00:08:15.300 --> 00:08:19.800 way back when. So it's, you know, they are now 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.620 the ones who are also holding it and protecting 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.680 it. And you mentioned a couple of other great 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.120 examples in your article from other cities and 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.040 countries that I've been to. I wonder if you 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.759 might just, in addition to Hungary, touch on 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:34.700 a couple of the others, whether it's Venezuela, 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.980 Turkey, your choice. But I think that they're 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:40.840 really informative because they show the extremes 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.019 of just trying to stop somebody from being your 00:08:44.019 --> 00:08:46.059 competitor to going to throwing them in jail 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:55.090 or worse. Yeah, it's not it's not it's it can 00:08:55.090 --> 00:08:57.929 be very unsafe to be a mayor in an autocratic 00:08:57.929 --> 00:09:02.629 system if you are, you know, not towing the line. 00:09:03.149 --> 00:09:08.110 So in I'll give you a few examples. In Poland, 00:09:08.190 --> 00:09:11.350 the mayor of Gdansk was assassinated, actually, 00:09:11.509 --> 00:09:16.649 by someone who was thought was very spun up by 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.230 the campaign of hate that the national government 00:09:20.230 --> 00:09:24.629 was. conducting against him because of his support 00:09:24.629 --> 00:09:32.029 of LGBTQ rights. Mayor Lopez of Caracas was prevented 00:09:32.029 --> 00:09:34.429 from running for higher office and also thrown 00:09:34.429 --> 00:09:39.769 in jail because of his role in leading protests 00:09:39.769 --> 00:09:45.669 against the Maduro regime. The prosecutor said 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:48.950 that he had subliminal ways of inciting people 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:56.179 to protest. In Istanbul, the very popular mayor 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:59.820 there, Imamoglu, who's an opposition party figure, 00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:05.899 and the day of, I think, or the day or right 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:12.200 after, he said that he would run as a candidate 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.659 for president. His university degree was revoked, 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.899 which made him then ineligible to run. And then 00:10:19.899 --> 00:10:23.639 he was thrown in jail. And recently he has had 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:29.740 a, you know, a really sham -looking trial. And 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:32.559 there's, you know, he has charges filed against 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.159 him that would keep him in jail for 2 ,000 years. 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:40.519 Like all kinds of just... nonsense stuff of sedition 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.259 and corruption and spying and, you know, everything 00:10:43.259 --> 00:10:47.879 they could think of. Wow. There's a few examples, 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.960 but in all those cases, what the mayors were 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:57.000 trying to do was to give people their rights, 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.500 their rights to protest, their rights to love 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:06.320 who they loved. their rights to, you know, to, 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:09.039 in the cases of Imamoglu, he was very focused 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:12.779 on poor women and children's nutrition, for example. 00:11:13.580 --> 00:11:17.200 So, yeah. Yeah, and I think one of the things, 00:11:17.259 --> 00:11:20.919 too, and I'm curious if you agree here, is because 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:22.759 they're mayors, and we see this in the U .S., 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.080 there's a personal relationship between community 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.200 members and their elected or appointed officials 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:33.379 that we don't get on a national level. You know, 00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:35.940 and I'm sure that you saw that in Los Angeles. 00:11:35.980 --> 00:11:37.779 And I wonder if you could comment a little bit 00:11:37.779 --> 00:11:41.000 on that dynamic and why you think that might 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.100 be create more effectiveness and better communication 00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:47.000 and be able to move away from polarization, for 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.440 example, because of that personal relationship. 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.639 Yeah, sure. I mean, I think I think it does a 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:55.379 few things. First of all, I think you're right. 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:58.019 You know, we can run into your mayor. grocery 00:11:58.019 --> 00:12:01.360 store or at, you know, when your kids are playing 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.580 soccer or whatever, they cannot, they're not 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:07.840 insulated from their residents and their neighbors. 00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:11.919 I think that brings, it brings familiarity that 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.259 this is like a real human. It brings accountability, 00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:19.399 importantly. So if, you know, the mayor says 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.279 they're going to do something and then they don't 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.120 do it, you can usually see that it's not done 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:28.340 or it is done. And so that, That accountability 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:34.159 is a key feature of democracy. Transparency is 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.779 another one. And I think, you know, cities generally 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:39.080 try to be pretty transparent about how they are 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.659 spending their budget dollars, for example. Some 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:46.120 cities are measuring all kinds of things, like 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:50.019 how many minutes it takes to, you know, to answer 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.259 a 911 call. Right. And every, you know, measuring 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:56.580 all kinds of things, how many trees, like, you 00:12:56.580 --> 00:13:00.509 know. How many, you know, miles of street have 00:13:00.509 --> 00:13:05.149 been paved recently, you know, et cetera. So 00:13:05.149 --> 00:13:07.730 that's another really important feature of democracy 00:13:07.730 --> 00:13:12.830 is that transparency that they have. I think, 00:13:12.870 --> 00:13:16.570 too, that something that some of us, some people 00:13:16.570 --> 00:13:19.450 don't talk often enough about is that what goes 00:13:19.450 --> 00:13:22.710 on in cities and towns and at the state level. 00:13:23.409 --> 00:13:26.009 there tends to be a greater degree of trust. 00:13:26.110 --> 00:13:29.950 We both know there's been a very, very disheartening 00:13:29.950 --> 00:13:33.250 erosion in trust in our institutions in the United 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:36.029 States at all levels, you know, including where 00:13:36.029 --> 00:13:38.509 I came from, where the FBI largely was a respected 00:13:38.509 --> 00:13:42.970 organization. And regrettably, in the past few 00:13:42.970 --> 00:13:46.029 years, that's not been the case. And I think 00:13:46.029 --> 00:13:48.889 what a lot of people don't realize is that. Having 00:13:48.889 --> 00:13:51.570 that public trust, that absolutely feeds into 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:53.889 national security. And a lot of people may think, 00:13:53.970 --> 00:13:56.509 well, I'm in this small town over here or I'm 00:13:56.509 --> 00:13:58.750 in Des Moines or I'm in Bridgewater, New Jersey. 00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:01.850 It doesn't matter to me, but it really it really 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:03.990 does. And I wonder if you could talk a little 00:14:03.990 --> 00:14:05.970 bit about that, especially from your role in 00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:09.389 L .A., about how you know what is going on outside 00:14:09.389 --> 00:14:12.129 the community absolutely impacts the security 00:14:12.129 --> 00:14:17.980 in the community. Yeah, I mean, cities and towns, 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.000 you know, mayors and other public servants at 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.019 the local level are really on the front lines 00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:28.559 of a lot of international, you know, challenges. 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:33.259 So it could be extreme weather events from climate 00:14:33.259 --> 00:14:37.740 change. It could be COVID or another, God forbid, 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:41.149 another pandemic. It could be a terrorist attack. 00:14:41.269 --> 00:14:45.289 Recently, a bunch of cities' utilities were shut 00:14:45.289 --> 00:14:50.610 down by cyber attacks. So it absolutely matters. 00:14:50.929 --> 00:14:55.110 And when you talk about trust, mayors are the 00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:58.269 most trusted level of government. Seventy percent 00:14:58.269 --> 00:15:01.570 of residents trust their mayors, which is really 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:04.929 extraordinary. Figure that is held that is, you 00:15:04.929 --> 00:15:07.429 know, and it's been the case for decades, whereas 00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:10.990 national or trust in national government has 00:15:10.990 --> 00:15:16.490 plummeted, as you as you say, in, you know, in 00:15:16.490 --> 00:15:20.970 the last decade or so. It's I think the other 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:24.750 thing that impacts communities more is to some 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:27.289 degree, it feels at times that there's weaponization 00:15:27.289 --> 00:15:30.629 going on. And when you and I talked before this. 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:34.110 We talked about the fact that it came out kind 00:15:34.110 --> 00:15:37.370 of very quietly in court filings that, in fact, 00:15:37.370 --> 00:15:40.549 the administration had withheld already appropriated 00:15:40.549 --> 00:15:44.809 funds that impacted infrastructure in states 00:15:44.809 --> 00:15:47.490 that didn't vote for the president. So I wonder 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:49.289 if you could comment on that a little bit and 00:15:49.289 --> 00:15:53.549 how you see that expanding even beyond that potentially. 00:15:55.429 --> 00:16:01.730 Yeah, it's troubling. It's very typical. of a, 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:08.850 you know, tending toward or admiring of authoritarianism 00:16:08.850 --> 00:16:13.230 governments. This is like one of their key tools 00:16:13.230 --> 00:16:18.269 that they have is to defund state and local government. 00:16:18.970 --> 00:16:25.850 It's absolutely horrible, though, because, you 00:16:25.850 --> 00:16:28.549 know, this is affecting regular everyday people. 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:34.480 And, you know, fixing infrastructure or also 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.399 SNAP benefits, like not feeding children. I mean, 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:40.120 it's really at the end of the day, it's local 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.379 government that has the responsibility to do 00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:45.940 those things. And they do it typically with federal 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:49.360 dollars. But, you know, you gave one example, 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:55.080 another one. There's a proposal from the administration 00:16:55.080 --> 00:17:01.009 to change. the rule and allow political appointees 00:17:01.009 --> 00:17:05.630 to veto any funding that's going from the federal 00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:08.329 government to state and local governments. So 00:17:08.329 --> 00:17:13.190 that is really a recipe for political meddling. 00:17:13.289 --> 00:17:16.470 And I'll say that in general, though, at the 00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:24.250 local level, mayors are not like partisan political 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:26.410 figures for the most part. They're just trying 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:30.609 to get, you know, solutions and trying to make 00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:33.769 lives better for their residents. So you will 00:17:33.769 --> 00:17:35.549 see with the U .S. Conference of Mayors that 00:17:35.549 --> 00:17:39.930 when they're issuing statements about, you know, 00:17:39.950 --> 00:17:44.890 SNAP benefits or about the tariffs or whatnot, 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:47.190 they're doing it on a very bipartisan basis. 00:17:47.309 --> 00:17:50.089 It's Republicans and Democrats and independents. 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:55.099 who are all signing on to those statements. And 00:17:55.099 --> 00:17:56.660 that's an important thing. I wonder if you could 00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:58.880 expand on, because although we know, I would 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.240 guess that a lot of our listeners are not aware 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:04.640 that there is a national organization for mayors 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.559 and a national organization for governors and 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.559 the degree to which they collaborate. And I'd 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.359 love for you to talk a little bit more about 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.480 that, because I think that the average person. 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:17.230 thinks that they're in a silo and that their 00:18:17.230 --> 00:18:19.250 mayor is dealing with what's going on in their 00:18:19.250 --> 00:18:22.730 town. And she or he is just kind of operating 00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:25.289 in that little universe. And because I know when 00:18:25.289 --> 00:18:26.950 just talking to people, they say, well, it's 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:29.170 just here. It's like, well, no. So I would love 00:18:29.170 --> 00:18:30.769 for you to talk a little bit more about those 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:35.710 those two organizations. Sure. So the U .S. Conference 00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:41.809 of Mayors is there's two actual city and town. 00:18:43.669 --> 00:18:45.609 organizations that are national. One is called 00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:48.289 the U .S. Conference of Mayors, and the other 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:50.349 one is called the National League of Cities. 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:55.130 They do slightly different things, but essentially 00:18:55.130 --> 00:18:59.349 they are bringing mayors together to learn from 00:18:59.349 --> 00:19:01.829 each other about, you know, all kinds of things 00:19:01.829 --> 00:19:04.309 they all care about. And that could be, you know, 00:19:04.309 --> 00:19:07.970 using drones in your police force, or it could 00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:11.630 be, you know, what about AI and how can we use 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:13.150 that to make government more efficient? Or is 00:19:13.150 --> 00:19:17.569 that too, you know, is it too dangerous? We know 00:19:17.569 --> 00:19:20.210 we can't put on the proper safeguards. Or it 00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:23.099 could be. you know, water infrastructure. It 00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:25.039 could be, you know, all kinds of things. And 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:26.839 so they're constantly coming from each other. 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:30.559 And I will say that that happens across borders 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:35.500 also. So there are, you know, various international 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:41.859 networks of mayors and regional heads that, you 00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:44.740 know, work on all kinds of issues. The most... 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:50.359 well -built -out area is around clean energy 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:54.200 and climate solutions. There's several networks. 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.619 There's a network of big cities. There's a network 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:00.380 of smaller cities. There's a network of, you 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:02.420 know, within the United States of cities. There's 00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:05.759 a network that is cities and states and businesses. 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:11.210 But what we're all doing is sharing solutions, 00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:15.369 working with technical experts, because we don't, 00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:20.769 you know, mayors like to learn from other cities 00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:23.089 that have figured out a solution to something. 00:20:24.069 --> 00:20:27.609 As my mayor used to say, good mayors borrow, 00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:35.289 great mayors steal. In the context of ideas from 00:20:35.289 --> 00:20:37.630 other places. No, that's a great way of putting 00:20:37.630 --> 00:20:40.170 it. And actually, you know, your work, I'd love 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:43.430 for you to talk now building on that. You know, 00:20:43.450 --> 00:20:48.650 you chose to found this organization and, you 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:51.910 know, you're neither of us is in our 20s. So 00:20:51.910 --> 00:20:54.349 I love the fact that you've made a decision after 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:56.950 all that you've accomplished, which is extraordinary. 00:20:57.009 --> 00:20:58.789 Instead of like sitting back and saying, OK, 00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:01.170 I'll be a fellow here and write, which is also 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.890 great and also a fun part of this point in life. 00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:08.549 But what kind of what drove you to do this and 00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:10.789 where do you hope to fill? Because clearly you're 00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:13.750 filling gaps that exist. And I'd love for you 00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.309 to talk a little bit more about how Alliances 00:21:16.309 --> 00:21:18.509 International is doing that and what your vision 00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:21.799 is, because you're still new. Yeah. Thank you. 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.259 I'm worried about our democracy and about our 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:33.579 country. And I am psychologically in the best 00:21:33.579 --> 00:21:36.799 place when I feel like I'm making a difference 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.970 and I'm part of the solution. And if I were sitting 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:42.470 back and writing, I think I would be like pulling 00:21:42.470 --> 00:21:45.569 my hair out. So at this point in my life, I mean, 00:21:45.589 --> 00:21:48.450 I did write that article and I do write sometimes, 00:21:48.529 --> 00:21:53.390 but I'm most interested in action and in change. 00:21:54.890 --> 00:21:59.299 So, and I believe deeply that. Mayors are this 00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:02.680 critical element of democracy that is really 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.539 overlooked for the most part, you know, but they're 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:08.799 the ones who, you know, get people to participate 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.079 in civic life and issue permits for protests 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:16.019 and help to administer free and fair elections 00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:19.460 and protect vulnerable groups to make sure they 00:22:19.460 --> 00:22:21.619 have their rights. Like that's all democracy 00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:26.579 and they're the ones doing it. So we at allies 00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:29.670 want to. Alliance for Local Leaders International, 00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:35.430 allies for short, want to support local elected 00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:38.690 leaders in their building and in their defense 00:22:38.690 --> 00:22:42.210 of democracy. And one of the ways that we do 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:45.170 that is by making sure that they are talking 00:22:45.170 --> 00:22:49.029 to each other so that our mayors here in the 00:22:49.029 --> 00:22:50.730 United States can learn from the experiences 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:55.309 that others have had. And we're also collecting 00:22:56.220 --> 00:23:00.279 collecting their knowledge um uh and we'll be 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.059 releasing that in a in a few months that is about 00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:06.680 you know how what are all the innovations in 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:09.700 the way that cities are building democracy so 00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:12.160 there's all kinds of innovation that happens 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:16.200 at the local level um there's this one kind of 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:21.099 popular um but relatively new phenomenon is participatory 00:23:21.099 --> 00:23:25.160 budgeting, which is when a city will give a chunk 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:30.539 of money to the community and they have to decide 00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:32.720 how to spend it. And there's a whole process 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.119 around how they do that. Can you give us an example? 00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:40.000 Like, would that be a park or would that be a 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.940 town square or anything? Anything, really. I 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:48.579 mean, it could be whatever, you know, that group 00:23:48.579 --> 00:23:51.779 of residents and civic leaders decide is most 00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.799 necessary and fits in the budget and all that 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.779 stuff. So I'm just giving you an example, though, 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.819 of this is a way to bring people in and feel 00:24:01.819 --> 00:24:06.940 like they are part of the process for real and 00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:12.400 that they have agency. That all happens at the 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.779 local level, all that kind of, you know, innovation. 00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:19.660 And so this volume that we will be releasing 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:22.640 is half of that. It's half all the ways you can 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:28.059 renew and make better our democracy, which obviously 00:24:28.059 --> 00:24:30.700 we need, right? It has not been set well for 00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:34.640 a lot of people. And second, how you protect 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.420 it. What are the different strategies that... 00:24:38.809 --> 00:24:42.970 mayors and their civil society partners have 00:24:42.970 --> 00:24:47.049 used to protect rights and norms and systems. 00:24:48.470 --> 00:24:50.849 Well, and that's why I think I really love, I 00:24:50.849 --> 00:24:52.950 think one of your subheadings within the article 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:57.190 was laboratories of democracy, which is really 00:24:57.190 --> 00:24:58.509 what you're talking about, right? When you're 00:24:58.509 --> 00:25:02.170 talking about towns or counties. And I love this 00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:03.869 idea because part of what you and I talked about, 00:25:03.910 --> 00:25:06.690 and I want to move to next is, as I shared, as 00:25:06.690 --> 00:25:09.309 we do this podcast, We want to make it clear 00:25:09.309 --> 00:25:11.470 to people about why they should care. We're not 00:25:11.470 --> 00:25:13.609 just here. We're having a good conversation for 00:25:13.609 --> 00:25:17.809 sure. But it's also to share ideas and to encourage 00:25:17.809 --> 00:25:21.190 people. And I love this idea of participatory 00:25:21.190 --> 00:25:25.069 budgeting and other things like that. And those 00:25:25.069 --> 00:25:27.390 are great examples. And I wonder what you would 00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:29.789 say to people who are listening who think, well, 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.670 I'm one person. I can't make a difference because 00:25:32.670 --> 00:25:35.140 we both know a lot of people think that. And 00:25:35.140 --> 00:25:37.779 so what sorts of things would you advise and 00:25:37.779 --> 00:25:40.359 say, hey, here's some great ideas that you can 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.259 try wherever you are, whether you're in Los Angeles, 00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:47.319 whether you're in Madison, Wisconsin or Jackson, 00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:53.259 Mississippi? Yeah, this is actually this is something 00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:58.079 interesting that I found when I was working at 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.079 the State Department doing this role of special 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.859 representative for city and state diplomacy. 00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:12.119 The real interest across the United States in 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.720 small towns and in big cities, in international 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.700 affairs. And at that time, we were really focusing 00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:26.960 on democracy. And so we brought groups of mayors 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.880 and state representatives to Armenia, for example, 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:33.519 which is a new democracy, talking about the role. 00:26:34.009 --> 00:26:38.589 in democracy. But in terms of citizens, residents 00:26:38.589 --> 00:26:42.390 of cities, you know, mayors really want your 00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:47.529 engagement. They really do. And the more people 00:26:47.529 --> 00:26:51.490 that are engaged with the city, the stronger 00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:55.769 the civic fabric is, the more resilient democracy 00:26:55.769 --> 00:27:02.890 can be in that city or in that town. And when 00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:07.069 we, you know, have an opportunity to rebuild 00:27:07.069 --> 00:27:10.309 our democracy and make it better than it has 00:27:10.309 --> 00:27:14.509 ever been before. It can start in those places 00:27:14.509 --> 00:27:19.009 where people still feel like they have the right 00:27:19.009 --> 00:27:24.769 to participate and to have an opinion and to 00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:27.690 expect responsiveness and to expect transparency 00:27:27.690 --> 00:27:30.750 and to expect that their rights will be respected. 00:27:31.130 --> 00:27:34.420 All those. Citizen expectations are critical. 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.579 So I would check out the events, the volunteer 00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:44.440 opportunities on your city hall website. That 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:51.180 will fortify these democratic spaces that we 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:56.019 have now. So whether you're, you know, cleaning 00:27:56.019 --> 00:27:59.500 a river or tutoring a kid or doing whatever it 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:02.960 is that your city or town really needs. That 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.839 engagement, that's the basis for democracy. And 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.980 the more people pitch in, the stronger the community 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:12.559 becomes and the stronger the democratic space 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:16.960 is. And I think that also then makes it stronger 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:20.460 to withstand any outside forces, whatever they 00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:23.119 might look like, that would attempt to chip away 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:26.119 at that cohesion within the community and allow 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:29.319 people to unite and come together, regardless 00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:31.670 of. how they're voting when they're going in 00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:34.289 to the booth or turning in their digital page. 00:28:34.769 --> 00:28:39.710 And I think that's so, so important to give that 00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:41.890 agency. And the other thing that I've noticed 00:28:41.890 --> 00:28:44.690 if I've lived around the world, and I'm sure 00:28:44.690 --> 00:28:48.490 you've had the same experience, when things start 00:28:48.490 --> 00:28:52.049 happening, good or bad, you usually first see 00:28:52.049 --> 00:28:55.140 it. At those local levels, like school boards 00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:57.059 became the place, you know, a few years ago, 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:01.579 as I'm sure you know, where a lot of the discontent 00:29:01.579 --> 00:29:06.259 and concerns about certain policies, procedures, 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.740 how we were going, it started coming out in school 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.220 boards first. And generally on a federal level, 00:29:11.259 --> 00:29:13.640 nobody's thinking about school boards, but they 00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.319 were the first place that. We started seeing 00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:19.319 a lot of change, a lot of discontentment. And, 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:21.259 you know, how do we address what we're unhappy 00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:25.759 with at that level? Exactly right. Exactly right. 00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:31.220 I think they are sort of the canaries in the 00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:35.680 coal mine. Oh, that's a great phrase. That's 00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:42.319 a great phrase. So what gives you hope? You've 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:44.380 talked about a lot of things that I think are 00:29:44.380 --> 00:29:46.380 great. I love what you're doing with alliances. 00:29:46.579 --> 00:29:50.119 I can't wait to see it continue to grow and see 00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.980 if I can connect you with, like, have you done 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:57.000 anything with Portland, Maine yet? No, but I'd 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.319 be happy to talk to Portland, Maine. Well, see, 00:29:59.579 --> 00:30:01.380 I actually lived there for a while outside of 00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:04.720 Portland, but next week I'm going to be having. 00:30:05.390 --> 00:30:07.970 Sheriff of Cumberland County, Kevin Joyce, is 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:10.269 going to be on the podcast on an immigration 00:30:10.269 --> 00:30:15.049 episode. And so I am I love the idea of connecting 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.730 and interconnecting. So I'll say right now, if 00:30:17.730 --> 00:30:19.730 I can make introductions for you at any other 00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:22.730 places that may be good partners for you going 00:30:22.730 --> 00:30:27.730 forward, I would love to do that. And and so 00:30:27.730 --> 00:30:31.119 let's. Get to this point. And so what gives you 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.359 the most hope right now? We both know there's 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:35.740 a lot of discouraging things, but what gives 00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:38.119 you hope? And what would you say to everybody 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:40.900 out there or besides some of the things you've 00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:43.980 talked about, some really concrete ways to be 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:46.640 positive and move forward and make their own 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.599 difference wherever they are? Yeah, I mean, really, 00:30:50.740 --> 00:30:54.500 these local leaders give me a lot of hope. They 00:30:54.500 --> 00:31:00.069 are optimistic. They're brave. They're innovative. 00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:05.970 They're smart. Mayors are just great. And they 00:31:05.970 --> 00:31:12.829 are fun, actually, a lot of them. They have to 00:31:12.829 --> 00:31:15.710 have a good sense of humor because of the assault 00:31:15.710 --> 00:31:20.960 that they get on a daily basis. So they do. And 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.619 then, of course, like the young generation, like 00:31:23.619 --> 00:31:27.160 my kids give me a ton of hope as well. But I 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.119 would say, you know, make it a point to to try 00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:34.680 to go see your mayor and try to help. You know, 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:39.880 you can really it's very healing to make a concrete 00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:42.339 difference in your own community, even if it's 00:31:42.339 --> 00:31:46.880 tiny. So I would say, you know, like host your 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:52.289 neighbors. for brunch or whatever, for lunch 00:31:52.289 --> 00:31:55.309 or breakfast or what have you, to get to know 00:31:55.309 --> 00:31:58.130 each other, to get to talk about what's going 00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:00.690 on in your block. Does anything need to change 00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:04.170 on your block? And then you can go from there. 00:32:05.849 --> 00:32:08.130 Well, thanks for that. I can't think of a better 00:32:08.130 --> 00:32:12.109 way to end. So thank you for sharing those thoughts, 00:32:12.210 --> 00:32:15.799 those hopes, the optimism. Thank you for all 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:18.279 that you've done your whole career and what you 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:20.539 continue to do with allies. I'm going to be watching 00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:23.660 to see what happens. And I'm excited for you 00:32:23.660 --> 00:32:27.119 as you continue to build this, build both within 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.240 the U .S. and outward globally, because I think 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:33.420 you're filling a really important, it's not a 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.059 whole, but a niche, something that could be expanded 00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:39.900 that would make things better for everyone. Thank 00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:42.930 you. And thank you for your. Thank you so much 00:32:42.930 --> 00:32:45.470 for being here, Nina. I appreciate it. It's a 00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:48.690 great conversation. And for everyone else, thanks 00:32:48.690 --> 00:32:51.769 for listening to the Steady State Sentinel. This 00:32:51.769 --> 00:32:54.829 is Lauren Anderson. Please keep listening. Please 00:32:54.829 --> 00:32:57.930 give us reviews where you can. We welcome input 00:32:57.930 --> 00:32:59.970 and we welcome two -way conversation. It's just 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:02.710 not one way. We want to hear what you think and 00:33:02.710 --> 00:33:04.890 we'll engage in a dialogue with you and hear 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:07.329 about any ideas you might have for future podcasts. 00:33:08.299 --> 00:33:10.799 So again, thanks again for the SteadyState Sentinel. 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:12.980 This is Lauren Anderson, still standing watch. 00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.960 Thank you for listening to the SteadyState Sentinel 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.420 podcast. Don't miss out on more insights and 00:33:22.420 --> 00:33:25.200 exposes from America's premier global security 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.819 experts. 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