Something is changing in our country, and most
people feel it before they can explain it. Welcome
to the Steady State Sentinel. I'm Lauren Anderson.
I spent nearly 30 years in the FBI, working national
security issues in the U .S. and overseas. Over
time, I've developed a habit of running toward
crises that most people run away from. Today,
we're going to talk about an interesting national
poll that was conducted in late March of this
year by Lincoln Park Strategies, focused on the
strength of our democracy. Concerns about whether
the U .S. is moving towards a more authoritarian
form of government and the extent to which people
feel comfortable expressing their views, their
political views, in public. One of the findings
was that 54 % of our fellow Americans say that
they hesitate. to express their political views
at work, online, and in their communities because
they're worried about the consequences. And 76
% of respondents expressed some level of concern,
ranging from slightly concerned to extremely
concerned about the U .S. moving towards a more
authoritarian form of government. So what's behind
this? Does it look the same for everyone across
gender, race? political identity generations?
We have two guests to talk about this with us
today who each bring different perspectives.
We have Stephan Hankin, who is the CEO of Linkin
Park Strategies, the firm that designed and conducted
this polling, and Joel Anderson, an award -winning
multimedia journalist and podcaster with The
Ringer and Slate. And they are here to talk about
their perception of what these numbers mean.
So before we start, I want to share a little
bit more of their backgrounds. As I mentioned,
Stephan is the founder of Lincoln Park Strategies.
He has over two decades of experience in market
research, data analytics, communication strategy,
and public opinion polling and analysis for Fortune
500 companies, local governments, and political
candidates. Notably, he was a part of the polling
team that helped Barack Obama become the 44th
President of the United States, and he has led
research in 25 countries and all 50 U .S. states.
He's also the co -founder of Trendancy Research,
a dynamic audience research platform, and his
work has appeared in the New York Times, the
Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and
the Christian Science Monitor, among other outlets.
He's also appeared on numerous radio and television
platforms, both in the United States and Canada.
He's a native of the Boston area and a graduate
of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst.
And the fun part of this, he describes himself
as a recovering rugby player, an old man hockey
player, and an aspiring ski bum. So we know he's
got a great sense of humor. And Joel is a senior
staff writer at The Ringer and co -host of the
Press Box podcast. He most recently worked at
Slate, where he was the host of seasons three,
six, and eight of the award -winning Slow Burn
Narrative History podcast series, and was a co
-host of the weekly sports podcast, Hang Up and
Listen. Prior to that, Joel was a National College
football writer at ESPN, where he wrote news
and narrative stories about race. the role of
race, justice, and sports in American life. He's
also worked at BuzzFeed, the Atlanta Journal
Constitution, and the Associated Press, among
other publications. His piece, The Two Michael
Sams, which I read and found really compelling,
was featured in the Best American Sports Writing
of 2015. Joel is a native of Houston and a graduate
of TCU. Joel and Stephan, thanks so much for
being here. I really appreciate it. And Stephan,
let's start with you. What prompted you to conduct
this poll? And will you please share some of
the overarching findings that you have? And then
Joel, I'm going to come to you for some reaction.
Sure. So I think the and first of all, great
to be here. Thanks for thanks for having me.
And, you know, when we originally had been speaking
with some some of the folks over at Steady State
and just getting an understanding of what the
organization was and then, you know, had just
thrown out the idea of like, you know. It could
be interesting to see what the American people
are thinking compared to what these professionals
who are working in the space or had worked in
the space are feeling is going on. And just sort
of seeing how, you know, do those ideals, do
those feelings jibe? Are they the same? Are they
different? You know, where's the disconnect?
And then that just turned into also just like...
I think it'd be interesting to just sort of see
where the American people are when it comes to
our democracy, authoritarianism, as you mentioned,
and then sort of just how is that affecting people's,
I'll call it, day -to -day lives in terms of
how comfortable they are in speaking out about
or just sharing their political ideas. And did
you see differences across gender, race, and
generation? Yeah, so, I mean, depending on the
question, so short answer, yes. And, you know,
that's pretty typical these days. I mean, you
know, it's more news if the one demographic where
it's news if there isn't a difference when it
comes to partisanship, right? And we certainly
saw that here. And yes, we saw, you know, differences
in gender, but, you know, and especially on the
question of concern over the United States moving.
towards the state of democracy, generationally,
we see a big difference there, right? So the
older you are, the more likely you are to be
concerned about that. And if we're going down
to Gen Z, 54 % feel that the state of our democracy
is strong. That's only 28 % among boomers. Now,
I have theories on why this is, but we definitely
saw that. And it just moves incrementally when
you move up the generation scale or move down,
depending on how you want to look at it. Younger
you are, less concerned you are. Older you are,
more concerns you have. Okay, thanks. Thanks
for that. And Joel, do you think from your perspective
that this is just a reflection of politics or
a broader cultural or social anxiety that we're
experiencing in the country? I think it's all
of those things. I don't know how partisan we're
allowed to get on this thing, but I do think
that... you know, reflected in the partisan numbers
you see in Stefan's work, or just the way people
are responding to the Trump administration. Like,
Trump voters know that they're winning, right?
And so you see with Republicans, they're like,
they feel a lot more comfortable saying things
that they want to see. There's been a lot more
mainstreaming of things that they've long wanted
to talk about. Even if you follow these conversations
on social media, you know, and the way that Twitter,
for instance, I don't know how many people are
on Twitter, but Twitter is like, used to be sort
of like a town square, like a true place where
a lot of people came together and shared their
ideas and sometimes argued, sometimes made jokes
or whatever. But you can see like the change
over the last four or five years. It's like,
all right, they're mainstreaming slurs. Slurs
are a lot more likely to go past. Racist jokes,
things like that. Sexist jokes. So there are
a lot of people that feel comfortable now that
maybe they didn't feel as comfortable a decade
ago before the advent of Trump. And for people
like me, for instance, we have always sort of
lived in a world in which it was uncomfortable
to talk about sports. And I mean that by like
black people of a particular age, like you were
sort of, you knew that like. you know if you
felt something about politics that you might
not want to share that at work because um you
know the status quo is always sort of prevails
in those circumstances that there's no need to
to challenge or to have a debate with anybody
about that because that would make people uncomfortable
you're already sort of climbing your way into
the room why would you risk it by like having
a political discussion with people but the thing
about social media again is that it opened it
up for everybody people can see the things that
you're saying whether it was on facebook Instagram
or whatever, and people can follow those conversations.
And over the last four or five years, people
have paid the price. Like a lot of people have
lost their jobs or been excluded from organizations
that they used to be in. And so that's what I
think, you know, it's just like the Trump movement
to loosen the standards of language has really
won out. But as a result, a lot of other people
have paid the price and they feel a lot less
comfortable talking about it. And you raise an
interesting point that when you talk about the
timeframe where we've seen the difference. One
of the things I'm curious about and you addressed
it as as a black man and I will tell you coming
from my background. I self censored because I
had to because of my profession so I'm curious
if we can talk a little bit about that because
and I'm older than you two guys but we've grown
up to varying degrees in in generations that
expected that you didn't talk about certain things
outside the home, that you respected certain
boundaries. So I'm curious, you've talked about
social media, but can we say or do we know that
this is self -censoring simply because of a changed
environment in the country or a combination of
self -censoring because of how we each grew up?
So I'd be curious to hear what you each think
about that. Well, I think it's both because,
I mean, look. So you talked about the time that
I worked at ESPN, for instance. When I was at
ESPN, the conversation that roiled the nation
was Colin Kaepernick, right? And Colin Kaepernick's
right to protest, right? And what happened to
Colin Kaepernick after he protested? Now, a lot
of people would say, oh, he was near the end
of his career. He wasn't a viable starting NFL
quarterback again. But the year after that protest,
he never played in the NFL again. When I was
at ESPN, I covered a story about a kid who was
a Division III quarterback in Pennsylvania. He
kneeled during the protest and got kicked off
of his team. So there are people like that. Eric
Reid, who also joined Colin Kaepernick in these
protests. He lost his job. My colleague, Jamel
Hill, who worked at ESPN at the same time as
me, sent out a tweet that the Trump administration...
fought back, you know, furiously when they called
him a white supremacist and he demanded that
she be fired. Now she got to stick around in
her job for long, but she was basically silenced.
And then once her contract was up, they moved
her out. So people, I mean, it's hard for people
to look at those examples and say, oh yeah, like
I've always felt good about my ability to have
freedom of speech because we knew that people
were clocking that and that there would be a
price to pay sometimes if it was political speech
that was considered unpopular in the moment.
Right. And that's, and that's, Stephan, I'm going
to come to you in just a second. And that's another
interesting thing that I was thinking about is
because with the swing, as we always do with
the pendulum going so far away from what is commonly
referred to as DEI, you know, I wonder myself,
is that causing more people to be silent and
more people to be emboldened as well? And is
that separate? Is that a part of the whole phenomenon
of this administration? So Stephan, please jump
in. Yeah, no, and, you know, right, there used
to be the three third rails, right? Like, you
don't talk about religion, you don't talk about
politics. And, you know, at least growing up
in the Boston area, you don't talk about any
kind of affinity for the Yankees, or else you're
getting like, you know, kicked out of the room.
But, you know, that is all shifted now, right?
So now people are walking into the room where
you're not walking in, you know, as... an american
first or like you know like what you're walking
in as i'm a trump fan or i'm not a trump fan
right like we've we've gone full You know, we've
gone full tribal on on politics. And, you know,
so now it's just it changed the dynamic of how
people are thinking about this, how people are
reacting to it. You know, and we see it in the
numbers in the survey where, you know, you have
a third of Republicans or a third of Trump voters
saying that they're concerned about the democracy.
But it's sort of even that view doesn't overcome.
the sort of the support for the tribe right and
then you know and now you see like going back
to the Kaepernick thing right like the tribe
you know it's like white people first right it's
it's like we're not even if you're sitting there
and not to say like everyone was silent right
but Most people were, right? And certainly the
teams were, right? Where it wasn't, even if you
were like, well, okay, I kind of agree what he's
saying or, you know, what he's protesting, like
we should be having a conversation about this.
It's like, I'm going with my tribe first and
therefore I am not going to say anything. And
then therefore me as the owner of these teams,
it's more comfortable for me to not piss off
the tribe. So we're just going to bench him slash
make sure he doesn't get hired again, right?
So now, and now we're seeing it with our democracy
where it's like, hey. It is easier for me to
be just quiet and keep the tribe happy. And I'm
not even going to bring up the fact that, you
know, our norms and our laws are just crumbling
in front of us. And that's a really important
point is because that's my background is what's
been particularly concerning for me. And it was
interesting to see in some of your poll results
is that the respect for the rule of law by at
least some people. has gone away. I mean, we've
even got public figures saying, okay, we're not
enforcing those laws anymore. We're only going
to enforce these laws. And, you know, going back
to your world, Joel, in sports, everybody knows
in the game what the rules are. They know what's
going to happen. They've got a referee. If you
do this, this is going to happen. And so, you
know, one of the concerns I have, and I wonder
if it was showing up, Stefan, in the polling,
is that when The rules change and nobody knows
the rules have changed. How can you play the
game fairly? And I have really deep concerns
about the diminishing of respect for the rule
of law. And I think that's part of the question
you had, Stefan, on democracy and the erosion
of democracy. So I'd love you both to weigh in
on that. Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's. pretty
clear that we're sort of beyond the protection
of the law in these instances. I mean, look,
the Trump administration doesn't have a lot of
respect for the First Amendment, it seems, right?
I could just go through a list of things. Remember,
they banned the Associated Press from the Oval
Office and Air Force One for refusing to call.
The Gulf of Mexico, the Gulf of America, trying
to shut down PBS and NPR. The Trump administration
has sued The Wall Street Journal, The New York
Times, BBC. Just recently, the FBI director,
Kash Patel, filed a $250 million defamation lawsuit
against The Atlantic. The war over Jimmy Kimmel.
OK, like, you know, in Jimmy Kimmel's ability
to do a night a night show and make jokes about
the administration or whatever, like that is
being contested. And even more like I'm a journalist
now. Right. So it was I guess it was a couple
of months ago that the FBI searched the home
of a Washington Post reporter and seized their
phone and computers. Unheard of. Like, yeah,
that's just something that just did not. I mean,
again, there it. I'm not going to say that that's
unprecedented, but the way in which it was enacted
and the way it was executed is something that
I've not noticed in the time that I've been a
professional journalist, where I've felt like,
oh, if I report something or if I have a source
that will do this, that the administration may
come after me and try to make me a target. So
I think people are rationally responding to the
threats that they see out there, right? There's
all this evidence that... you theoretically have
your First Amendment rights, right? Which doesn't
mean, like, the way that the war has been fought
in the past is, like, people thought that the
First Amendment protected people from being mad
at you or wanting to associate with you outside
of work. That's not what it is. It was whether
or not the government could attack you or punish
you for availing yourself of your First Amendment
rights. And that is exactly what is going on
right now. So people are looking at that and
they're saying, hell yeah, I'm afraid. hell yeah
this just seems like an authoritarian country
hell yeah uh i'm worried about the slide away
from democracy it only makes sense because that's
what this administration has shown jeffin do
you have thoughts yeah no i mean agree completely
right and i mean then the other piece of this
is also right that i think a lot of folks think
about authoritarianism as it just happens overnight
right like hitler hitler gets put in charge brown
shirts are marching through the you know goose
stepping through the streets the next day and
it's it is 100 not how it works right like this
it is a multi -year slow progression into the
the full system right and i mean this is a playbook
and we see each of the stages being hit and you
know certainly silencing critics like silencing
the media is you know chapter two or chapter
three right like this is early stage stuff so
that you can get away with more and more if no
one is actually looking at this and reporting
at it on it so you know this is we've seen this
happen before right but but there as long as
a majority of people think it doesn't affect
them or it's not that big a deal I'm not going
to stand up and say anything, you know, the longer
this runway can go. And you, Stephan, you mentioned
to me in an earlier conversation in this context,
too, something that your mom shared with you.
And would you be comfortable sharing that here
again? Sure. I mean, you know, so my mom was
born in 1938 in Germany, in Berlin. You know,
obviously was young during the war, but. you
know has has vivid memories of what what that
was like and i mean i would say she's probably
one of the more uh depressed people when it comes
to what's going on in this country right now
just because it's like you know i lived through
this i lived through the aftermath of it you
know the fact that we're even Here again is just
you know shocking unless you know, it's less
than a hundred years ago That you know, we're
we're yet again, you know dealing with this and
it's it's not just in you know The United States
that you see this sort of far -right Whatever
you want to call this movement, right? Like we're
seeing it happening in Europe and you know to
different degrees But you know, but here we are
again Refusing to learn the lessons of the past
and just going along with it because you know
a few, you know, a handful of reasons of why
people are on board with this. But a lot of it
is just, you know, the economic anxiety that
a lot of folks have. And now you have leaders
who are willing to step in and instead of trying
to solve problems, let's just point the finger
and blame people and then come along. And by
the way, you know, we're just going to turn this
into my, you know, my, at least in the U S right.
Like, it's like, Hey, how can I, how can I make
myself and my family richer on the way down?
That's all I care about. And, you know, Here
we are. But just the fact that, again, we we
know what the playbook is. We've seen it happening
and we're just letting it happen. Well, and I
don't know if you guys know this, but I actually
lived and worked in authoritarian countries in
different parts of the world during my FBI career.
So I've seen it up close. I know what it looks
like to be muzzled. I know what it looks like
to be. As I was literally like ambushed in a
situation where I was anticipating a one -on
-one meeting with the minister of justice in
a particular country that was incredibly corrupt.
And it was in the context of an American woman
who was murdered. And we were there to conduct
an investigation. And the ambassador and I fully
expected to have the meeting with her and the
heads of the military and the police. And as
we opened the door, it was like. stepping onto
the red carpet for the Oscars. There was flashbulbs.
There was everything going off. And this minister
of justice then insisted that we conduct this
meeting and I answer what she wanted to ask me
in front of media. And to have stopped that thing
would have created a far bigger issue than not.
So I've lived it. I mean, I had to be concerned
for the safety of the team that I had there,
pay for extra security, realizing that another
$10 their way and they'd sell us to somebody.
So I've lived there. I know what that looks like.
And it's disturbing to me. And I won't go too
far into it. But on the positive side, I also
lived in a country that was reversing itself.
from a very authoritarian state to a less authoritarian
one. And people would still complain. And I would
say to my colleagues, look, you're allowed to
say it out loud. And the media is actually reporting
what happened. That's good. That's a positive
development. So it's troubling for me having
lived through that. Joel, you wanted to jump
in? Yeah, no, I mean, I guess the thing is that
that sounds horrible. And I guess the issue is
like, is it? too far gone right like like how
far down the line are we like how and stuff i
mean you have the data that shows this right
about like the the actual concern but i guess
lauren in your experience and you've seen these
countries or whatever i'm i'm more curious about
okay like we know that the rule of law is still
being steadily eroded. We know that people's
First Amendment rights are being trampled on.
We know that the government is feeling itself,
right? Like, they feel like we can start a war
with Iran. We can kill people off the coast in
boats just because we said they're drug dealers,
right? Like, we can kill them without any recrimination.
But I guess they're just like, is it possible
to turn it around at this point? Because my big
fear is that, oh, you know what? Like, maybe...
We're already too far gone. I mean, I think it's.
I don't think we're too far gone, but I think
there has to be. I mean, A, we need an opposition.
Right. And I'm going to say we don't have an
overly unified slash organized opposition to
what's going on. Right. In a real meaningful
way. I mean, sure, you get people to. chime in
on social media and stuff like that but actually
like doing the sort of the foundation work of
of what needs to happen but then i think there
also needs to be an understanding and you know
now some of this takes or a lot of this takes
leadership like an understanding of look we're
gonna have to rebuild and rebuilding doesn't
happen in a week or two right so it's like there
there is so much that's gonna have to get fixed
once You know, once we have the current administration,
hopefully they will actually leave office. But,
you know, it is going to take years to undo a
lot of the things that have been done and then
also put in place guardrails to make sure it
doesn't happen again. But in the meantime, you
know, the public wants problems fixed that direct
their more direct day to day life. You know,
we just saw this in the elections in the UK where,
you know. brexit complete disaster then conservatives
you know run their austerity programs like you
know everything's just going to complete crap
can i say crap i can say crap right um you know
okay and then um you know so and then they get
they get sent out of office landslide victory
for uh for labor and two years later voters are
like what have you done for me right so it's
like it's like look and i'm not saying oh labor
has been perfect or anything like that but the
the patience level of the average citizen needs
to there needs to be sort of an understanding
of what needs to happen and why um and what that
what that looks like in terms of you know and
we want to bring it back to a sports analogy
right like you know you've you want a few championships
your your payroll is like through the roof you
you like go like a bunch of star players and
it's like look you're not going to win the championship
two years later like you there there's a five
-year rebuilding plan if the fans understand
what the plan is and see the plan in place they're
usually more uh patient with with what's happening
and you know i think that that needs to start
happening like we need we need to start the rebuilding
process now and get the leadership in place in
order to be able to make it happen One thing
that I found really interesting, and Joel, I
really would be interested in your take on this,
and that is there were really interesting differences
with Gen Z. Now, we all lived at another time.
We know when there's a functional Congress. We
know when there's an executive branch that's
not overreaching. We know that there is respect
for the rule of law. This has all happened. But
when we look at Gen Z. You know, their lives
began after 9 -11, so they have no frame of reference.
And I was really fascinated by the fact that
of their numbers, Stefan, which was they have
a high degree of self -censoring, but they also
have a high degree of confidence in the strength
of our democracy. And that to me was was startling.
So I'm curious about what's going on there and
wonder what each of you think about that. Well,
I mean, go ahead, Stefan, I'm sorry. No, no,
go ahead. Go, go. No, because I think boomers
have lived in a different America. They've lived
in different Americas, for instance, right? Like
my parents, they grew up in the Jim Crow South.
So their parents could not vote, right? Or if
they were voting, their right to do so was very
much contested. My parents went to segregated
schools. I learned about that through them. And
I was born 10 years later, like right after the,
you know, most of the civil rights legislation
in this country was passed. So you could argue
that America wasn't not fully a democracy then.
So people with living memory of that can see
what is happening, particularly even around voting
rights, like just in the past couple of weeks,
right? Like the ability for people to have politically
represent themselves in the South is being stripped
away from a bunch of them. And so people can
look at that and say, oh man. I know that seems
very familiar. Whereas Gen Z, they don't know
anything else. They've never lived in another
country, right? They don't know their memory,
like even their memory of being able to drop
people off at the airport gate. Like they don't
have that, right? The same is true with women.
I mean, the women of Gen Z have no idea, much
as you talk about from a race perspective and
a voting rights perspective, women have no idea.
They're getting an idea now that Roe v. Wade
was overturned, but they have zero idea of what
it was like of a woman of my generation, for
example, to have to fight her way into every
room, which is fine. Those are my choices. But
without that frame of reference, and I have a
friend who says, know your history, whoever you
are, know where you came from and know your history,
and be sure that you incorporate that as to who
you are as a person and how you move in the world.
Yeah, that's right. I mean, who would have thought
that we would just, I mean, maybe Republicans
and various conservatives knew, but we live in
a world right now in this country where it's
not a given that you can get. an abortion. Like,
I mean, in Texas, my home state, a place that
I would have moved if not for the changes to
Roe v. Wade and abortion laws there, there's
like the maternal mortality rate has skyrocketed
in the last few years, right? And I was like,
my wife, we're old. We're old parents of young
children, okay? And so when we were thinking
of where to move, I was like, well, I could not
stand for my wife to live in a state where if
the pregnancy went wrong, which sometimes happens
with women who have children over the age of
40, and not be able to have access to the medical
care that people have in California, where I
moved from. So, yeah, I mean, it's... Again,
Gen Z, they don't they're witnessing this. They're
getting to see what the consequences are of thinking
that democracy is something that you don't always
have to protect, that your rights are something
that you always have to fight for because people
are working to undermine them. But, yeah, they
don't know. But I mean, obviously, they're going
to find out. Yeah, no, 100 percent. Right. And
now, you know, the. boomers and you see the much
higher concern among boomers, but not every single
boomer, right? But they were around or certainly
aware or it wasn't far back history of the civil
rights era and Montgomery bus boycott and Martin
Luther King and everything that was happening
in the late 60s. And again, whether they were
sort of cognizant of everything that was going
on, but it was a very recent history for... Most,
if not all boomers, if they didn't experience
themselves. Right. So now you're getting into
a generation under no fault of their own. Obviously,
it's the one you were born of. Like, this is
this is something for the history books. Right.
And, you know, depending on where you grew up,
you know, depends on how much you learned about
it and things like that. But I mean, to Joel's
point, I mean, God, in two weeks, we've we've
rolled back to. i mean we're going past the 1960s
and back to like the late 1800s of like how do
we make sure like black people don't vote in
the south or that their their vote doesn't matter
and it's just i mean mind -boggling that you
know this is where we are but then back to the
authoritarian piece of it right i mean you know
the other thing that we have and Part of this
is what happened in 2016 with not allowing Obama
to put a Supreme Court justice that he absolutely
should have, and then Republicans switching the
rules again in 2020. We now have a Supreme Court
that is laying the groundwork for... the authoritarian
behavior. And they already gave him a get out
of jail free card where they said that, you know,
the president of the United States can't be held
responsible for anything that he does as president.
So it's like all the cards are coming together
in a insane way of, you know, of why this landscape
now exists. But yeah, but like, you know, Gen
Z just, they don't. Again, it's not their fault,
right? They just don't know better because they
just haven't lived through anything. And just,
you know, like 50 years ago, not even, yeah,
you know, we kicked out a president because of,
you know, him paying burglars to break into the
headquarters of the DNC. And this was a bridge
too far for Republicans, right? Republicans were
going to vote him out. And that is like barely
a blip on. what is happening in the current administration.
And, you know, I mean, even January 6th, right?
Like, you had, what, only five or six Republicans
saying, no, this is not okay. And the rest were
like, no, this is fine. This is not an impeachable
offense. We're not going to kick you out of office.
And, you know, that's where we are as a country
now. Just in the last 24 hours, Trump got out
of a $100 million IRS fine, got... secured future
immunity from all future tax investigations,
not just for himself, but for his family and
friends. He created a $1 .8 billion slush fund
for people that, a law break, like the January
6th supporters or whatever, right? Like, which
is, I mean, it's crazy. And then he was reported
for - insider trading, likely insider trading,
worth nearly a billion dollars. Any of this stuff
at any other point in our lives would have been
impeachable. And people would have been like,
oh, we can't stand for that. Even the mere suggestion
of it is serious enough that we should have an
investigation into it. And it just doesn't appear
to be the bandwidth or the interest or maybe
the political might. It really just seems like
there's not enough political will to do something
about it. So, yeah, I mean, we're... I do think
it's political will. And I want to bring this
to something as well, because obviously the FBI,
an institution that I spent three decades of
my life in, has been torn apart, disrupted. They
fired people without cause, without following
an internal process. They've stripped away the
expertise that we need in particularly complex
times like going to war in Iran. And that matters.
And yet we have a very. diverse audience that
listens to this podcast. And so I'd like to touch
on that a little bit, because as I shared in
an email with both of you, I grew up a Republican.
Yeah. President Ways and Means Chairman of Teenage
Republicans for the state of New Jersey. That
was my life for a long time. But I am deeply
distressed with what's going on now, which is
why I'm doing this podcast, why I'm writing.
But I always like us to be able to do in these
podcasts is speak to the American people. And
why this matters for them. We're having a great,
robust discussion among us. But why does it matter
to them? What steps can they take? And, you know,
how can we do a more effective job? We that,
well, I'm going to be careful here about how
I say we, but how can all of us do a better job
at encouraging open conversation and dialogue
without judgment with one another? And what sorts
of things might each of you? choose to share
to bring more people into the conversation including
those who are mega supporters and who may be
listening to some of these episodes i mean i
think you know one place i would start and i
would recommend everyone read is george washington's
farewell speech um and i am not going to try
to quote it because i will fail miserably but
like one of the big parts of that is just talking
about basically what happens if you put party
first right if you put party in front of country
if you put party in front of your own if if you
make your you know, your self -interest, only
what is good for the party, what happens to this
country. And he talked about it just, it opens
the door for tyranny. It moves us back to what
we just fought, you know, an entire war against
to gain our freedom, right? And that's where
we are right now. So I think, you know, one of
the big pieces also is like this, this can't
be Democrat versus Republican. This has to be
like America versus not. right you know and and
like in you know or democracy versus authoritarianism
or you know pick your sort of your your framing
here but it we got to get out of the party framing
and we and we need to start moving forward like
we're talking about before about like look we
need to end it we need to fix it and we need
to rebuild better on on the back end um but we
but job one is to stop this now and that's not
just going against republicans or supporting
democrats it's it's going against authoritarian
movement and the trajectory that we are on and
how just about everything just is really not
about American ideals or what America stands
for. It's for what Trump stands for. And, you
know, if you are if you're supporting that, you
are you are. You are revering for false idols.
So, you know, whether, you know, you have a religious
background, a you know, you're you're law enforcement.
What what have you right there? Everything is
wrong here. And, you know, we need to come together
to fight against what is happening. Yeah, I mean,
I think to some point it can't be Democratic
versus Republican, even though that is an important
element, like Democrats are going to have to
win some elections for this to change. But you.
He's right in that like this, the idea that a
political party can't lose, otherwise they will
no longer be in power. That has to change because
inevitably the pendulum is going to swing back
again, right? People move on, they get disinterested
and other people find a cause to get energized
about and they vote for it. And so I think it's
probably not a surprise to people that I'm, you
know, more on the left, but we do need like the
right to be. to feel like they can lose power
and that like, it's going to be okay. They're
like, we're living in a country where everybody
wants the best for each other. And, you know,
we're going to move forward, but, but right now
it doesn't feel that way, but you were asking
about like what you can do. And it's really interesting.
A few weeks ago, Easter, I took my kid. I'm not,
I'm not a. regular church -going person anymore.
My parents made me go a little bit, and I went
to Catholic school, but things have changed.
I'm older, whatever. But I've got two small kids,
a four -year -old and an almost two -year -old,
and we went to an Easter egg hunt at a local
church. And we had a great time. We were there
for like an hour and a half, and I was thinking,
I was like, we might need to join church. And
it wasn't just because I thought that I need
more God. I probably do, right? But I was also
thinking, I was like, oh, these people are really
great. These are people that... I think I could
build community with, right? Like we can take
on our problems together. And like my kids just
getting ready to start school. And I was like,
you know what? A good way to reach people, get
involved in the school, the PTA, volunteer organizations,
helping kids, dealing with the kids and their
parents, right? And so like, that's another way
I think of like meeting people where they're
at. It's an opportunity to meet people that are
not necessarily within your... social media stream
or they're already in your phone and like reaching
out to people and working with them and, you
know, figuring out the ways that you could come
together to make the world better where you live.
Like I'm, I'm a real big local elections guy.
I covered city hall in Shreveport, Louisiana
about 20 years ago and it changed my life. Like
I just got so much, so interested in like zoning
issues and things like that. So even like voting
in local elections, which aren't always partisan,
but finding people, that want to help the place
that you live and make it better, and then supporting
those people if they have ambitions that go beyond
that, right? So that, again, I just think there's
all sorts of ways, but I think it's going to
have to start in smaller units of gathering,
right? In smaller units of organization, I think.
I agree. That's perfectly said. And that commencement
speech at Muhlenberg College, my alma mater Sunday,
our honorary degree recipient asked and said
to all of the graduates, participate, don't spectate.
And Joel, you hit right on that, which I think
is absolutely perfect. And it's a great example.
And I think we'll end it on that. And I am so
appreciative of both of you joining, sharing
your thoughts, Steph and the poll work, Joel,
your really important perspective as well. And
I'm delighted you were here. And thanks also
to our audience. We're always glad you're here
and we hope that you will share your thoughts
with us. Make comments on YouTube, Spotify, Apple
on our Substack page. But we do want to hear
from you because it matters because we're trying
to create content that's interesting to you that
helps all of us find a way to talk together.
So this is Lauren Anderson for the Steady State
Sentinel Still Standing Watch. Thank you for
listening to the Steady State Sentinel podcast.
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