WEBVTT - Generated by artificial intelligence - any errors are unintentional. 00:00:03.320 --> 00:00:05.700 The Steady State Sentinel is produced by the 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:07.679 Steady State, a community of former national 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.960 security professionals who spent their careers 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.800 safeguarding the United States at home and abroad. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:20.199 Today, we continue that mission by staying true 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.640 to our oaths to defend the Constitution, uphold 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:26.500 our democracy, and protect our nation's security. 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.260 Join our expert hosts as they interview field 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:33.380 -tested guests whose unique experiences shed 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:36.719 light on the crises and challenges facing our 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:53.280 nation. So you're listening to the Steady State 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.049 Sentinel. I'm John Seifer, a former CIA officer 00:00:56.049 --> 00:00:58.850 and the founder of Spycraft Entertainment. I'm 00:00:58.850 --> 00:01:01.009 joined today by co -host, author, and legendary 00:01:01.009 --> 00:01:04.430 CIA officer Jim Lawler. And today we are joined 00:01:04.430 --> 00:01:07.030 by Denver Riggleman. Denver is a former Republican 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:09.609 congressman from Virginia, a former Air Force 00:01:09.609 --> 00:01:11.890 intelligence officer, and one of the most interesting 00:01:11.890 --> 00:01:14.209 political voices of the last few years. He's 00:01:14.209 --> 00:01:16.670 a guy who's been inside the modern GOP, inside 00:01:16.670 --> 00:01:19.769 Congress, and inside one of the most consequential 00:01:19.769 --> 00:01:22.819 investigations in American history. Denver served 00:01:22.819 --> 00:01:24.939 as a senior technical advisor to the House January 00:01:24.939 --> 00:01:27.480 6th Committee, where he helped run data -driven 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.299 investigations into digital breadcrumbs, phone 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:33.239 records, metadata networks, and patterns, trying 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:35.280 to map what happened before, during, and after 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.299 January 6th. And then he did something that still 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:40.900 makes people mad. He spoke publicly about what 00:01:40.900 --> 00:01:43.239 he found. And he's also worked on one of the 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:45.359 most radioactive controversies in U .S. politics, 00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:48.599 the Hunter Biden laptop story, specifically doing 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.129 data and forensic analysis. to evaluate claims, 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:55.069 distortions, and possible manipulation around 00:01:55.069 --> 00:01:57.790 the material. Right now, with the political temperature 00:01:57.790 --> 00:02:00.689 somehow getting hotter and crazier, Denver's 00:02:00.689 --> 00:02:02.730 perspective sits at the intersection of power, 00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:05.069 tech, disinformation, and accountability. So, 00:02:05.090 --> 00:02:08.009 Denver, it's great to have you. Welcome. Oh, 00:02:08.050 --> 00:02:09.909 my gosh. It's an honor to be here. Good to see 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:13.590 you. Good to see Jim. It's fantastic. Well, Denver, 00:02:13.629 --> 00:02:14.909 we're going to speak about all these kind of 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:16.789 crazy things, but let me start with your time 00:02:16.789 --> 00:02:19.780 in Congress, with how the sausage is made. What's 00:02:19.780 --> 00:02:21.780 the most important thing the public gets wrong 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:25.919 about how Congress actually works? I would say 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.039 they get wrong that there's a lot of policy debates 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.800 and they don't understand how specifically transactional 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.860 it is. And I think, you know, and I think, you 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:36.099 know, when I first went in there, you know, there's 00:02:36.099 --> 00:02:38.680 that saying the first six weeks you wonder how 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.840 you got there. And then the next six weeks you 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:43.539 wonder how everybody else got there. And I think, 00:02:43.539 --> 00:02:46.669 you know, I was. You know, I was never in politics. 00:02:47.069 --> 00:02:48.969 John, you know me. You know, you remember I came 00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:51.310 out of the military, started tech companies, 00:02:51.550 --> 00:02:55.289 sold two of those, have distilleries, make whiskey 00:02:55.289 --> 00:02:57.870 in Virginia and Pennsylvania. My wife is CEO 00:02:57.870 --> 00:02:59.849 of that. I staked her, you know, to get started 00:02:59.849 --> 00:03:03.580 there. Now she's a very successful. CEO of a 00:03:03.580 --> 00:03:06.740 whiskey -making dynasty. And then, you know, 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:09.539 I also have a brand new tech automation company. 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.639 I just finished my Series A funding line on how 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.080 to automate massive data sets for aggregation, 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.680 analysis, and simply predictive capabilities 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.979 of data. And, you know, I'm being sort of successful 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:24.780 on that too. I've run tech companies before. 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:28.099 So when I went into Congress, I'll tell you, 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.280 John and Jim, I'm like, wow. looking around, 00:03:32.500 --> 00:03:36.759 it's beautiful here in Congress. And about 12 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.419 weeks later, I told my wife, what am I doing 00:03:38.419 --> 00:03:40.780 here? Get me the hell out of here. This is awful. 00:03:41.060 --> 00:03:43.060 You know, and you just want to serve the people, 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:44.840 but really you find out it's transactional. You 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:46.680 got to be in the stream, what fundraising is 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.500 like. And if you're not specifically on the team, 00:03:49.539 --> 00:03:52.599 most of the time, 80 or 90 % of the time, they 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:54.919 start to cut you off at the Achilles. And I think 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:56.580 that's the thing people need to realize about 00:03:56.580 --> 00:03:59.319 Congress. Again, it's how transactional it is. 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.500 Denver, like you, I was a moderate Republican 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:06.719 for many years, and sadly, that creature no longer 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.580 exists. When did you first detect that the Republican 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:12.759 Party was basically sinking below the waterline? 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:19.360 My first meeting. I was in, I got invited to 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.470 the first Freedom Caucus meeting. And I'm sitting 00:04:22.470 --> 00:04:25.050 with another newly elected member to my left. 00:04:25.089 --> 00:04:26.350 And we're sitting in the back because we're new, 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:28.189 right? So now you guys imagine this, you know, 00:04:28.189 --> 00:04:29.949 at that time, I'm what? So you're talking about 00:04:29.949 --> 00:04:33.490 January, second week of January 2019. I'm almost 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:36.050 49, right? I've had multiple companies. I feel 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:37.870 like I've been fairly successful. You know, I'm 00:04:37.870 --> 00:04:40.990 above Moron and IQ, I think, right? So, you know, 00:04:41.029 --> 00:04:43.310 I got some of that going for me. So, but I worked 00:04:43.310 --> 00:04:48.379 in NSA for 16 years back and forth. with NSA, 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:51.759 Air Force Special Projects, Joint Special Projects, 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:53.980 but also, and you guys know, I mean, you work 00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:55.800 with Big Safari and Air Force Special Operations, 00:04:56.139 --> 00:04:58.100 you know, building things and things of that 00:04:58.100 --> 00:05:01.160 nature. So I thought I was pretty good with algorithmic 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.759 warfare, non -kinetic warfare, cyber, computer 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.300 network operations, and how that combined with 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:08.379 sort of warheads on foreheads, right? And how 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:11.000 we did that. So I go into my first meeting and 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.959 there's Louie Gohmert. You guys probably know 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:14.899 about the Sterling Intelligence of Louie Gohmert. 00:05:15.129 --> 00:05:18.949 from Texas. Anyway, so they're debating a bill 00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:21.310 that they want to actually put on the floor. 00:05:21.449 --> 00:05:23.430 And they were talking about, and get this, the 00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:25.550 one world algorithm that's suppressing conservative 00:05:25.550 --> 00:05:31.220 voices. Now, I automatically saw the very conspiratorial 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:34.959 nature of what the GOP was or had become because 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:36.759 I had some of those questions on the trail. Like, 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:38.600 for instance, I had one person ask me why the 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.899 white vans were using lasers to change votes 00:05:41.899 --> 00:05:44.800 from Republicans to Democrats in Northern Virginia. 00:05:45.310 --> 00:05:47.209 which was, they asked me if I would please address 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:50.089 that and legislation while I was running for 00:05:50.089 --> 00:05:53.050 Congress. And then I see Louie Gohmert talking 00:05:53.050 --> 00:05:55.269 about one world algorithms. And if anybody understands 00:05:55.269 --> 00:05:58.230 math and things like that, that's not just impossible, 00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:01.189 it's ludicrous. It's mind -blowingly delusional. 00:06:01.730 --> 00:06:04.649 And my first meeting, I actually stood up and 00:06:04.649 --> 00:06:06.149 said, I don't think you should do that. I was 00:06:06.149 --> 00:06:08.310 trying to be very kind, but I remember getting 00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:10.569 the daggers poked at me or looked at me, right, 00:06:10.649 --> 00:06:13.639 as I was saying. To the point I was trying to 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.519 explain math and algorithms and different database 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:17.899 structures and how it works. And I said, it's 00:06:17.899 --> 00:06:21.439 just not a thing. Don't put that on the floor. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.740 That doesn't make sense. And so now when you're 00:06:23.740 --> 00:06:25.660 seeing like chemtrail bills come up and stuff 00:06:25.660 --> 00:06:28.420 like that and things of that nature, I saw the 00:06:28.420 --> 00:06:32.879 genesis of that in 2019. And so you came in in 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.319 the Freedom Caucus, as we remember, but then 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.259 you became sort of persona non grata to them. 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:41.000 So what's the price of saying no in that ecosystem? 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.379 Nowadays, you know, we see these Republican congressmen 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:48.040 openly saying things that we know and they know 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.740 is not true. So is that because they can't say 00:06:51.740 --> 00:06:53.600 no? Because if you're not on the team, you're 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:56.240 kicked off. What's the price of saying no in 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.759 that sort of world? The price of saying no is 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:02.540 somebody told me this. It was one of the neatest 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:04.339 statements, but also completely right. They're 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:08.360 like, Denver, don't get out of the current. So, 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.300 and, you know, I'm like, well, my whole life 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:11.779 has been out of the current. You know, if you're 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:13.660 always striving, you're trying to be an outlier, 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:15.360 you're trying to, you know, you're coming from 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.040 somewhere that people never thought you'd be 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.379 to try to do something. And I really thought 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.040 this was a service job. And, you know, you don't 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:24.600 want to admit that at 48, 49 years old, you go 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:28.240 in naive, but I did. And because I thought, well, 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.040 I could be a new Republican. Maybe the Freedom 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:32.680 Caucus could be really a place where there's 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:34.639 debate. Maybe it's really, we could make it into 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:37.839 the Freedom Caucus. Nah, Freedom Caucus was should 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.019 have been called TPS, the Trump Protection Society, 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:43.420 because that's all the Freedom Caucus was. But 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:45.699 once I officiated the same sex wedding in July 00:07:45.699 --> 00:07:49.319 of 2019, some of my other votes like legalizing 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.660 marijuana, other votes like keeping preexisting 00:07:52.660 --> 00:07:55.300 conditions for health care, even though I was 00:07:55.300 --> 00:07:56.959 like, well, you voted with Trump 90 percent of 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:58.779 the time. Well, you're sort of voting. That's 00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:01.019 that's a lot of weird, small bills and amendments, 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.759 too. Right. You're talking, you know, sort of 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.300 some stuff that really. Doesn't matter that much. 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:09.959 But as I was voting no on the big bills, I started 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:11.920 to see that I was getting, you know, the hairy 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.420 eyeball. And then once I started saying, hey, 00:08:15.500 --> 00:08:17.839 maybe people shouldn't be spouting QAnon stuff, 00:08:18.139 --> 00:08:20.899 which started in about January, February of 2020. 00:08:21.579 --> 00:08:23.699 And everybody's like, well, Denver, what is this 00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:25.540 QAnon thing? Well, you guys remember after the 00:08:25.540 --> 00:08:28.639 wedding, when I officiated the wedding, the first 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.500 meeting after that in Pennsylvania County. I 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:33.440 got completely eviscerated. It was one of the 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:35.240 biggest showings of a committee meeting with 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:37.259 people saying that I had betrayed Christianity 00:08:37.259 --> 00:08:40.340 and betrayed the Republican Party. You know, 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:42.019 I'm not particularly religious, so it was an 00:08:42.019 --> 00:08:45.580 awkward meeting. But I also had people wearing 00:08:45.580 --> 00:08:47.480 Q -pens. I didn't know what they were. So this, 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:51.039 you're talking, guys, August of 2019, I first 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.559 started seeing QAnon lapel pins and QAnon t -shirts. 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:56.039 And then I started looking into what it was. 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.659 And so I was one of the first congressional members 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:00.659 to even know what QAnon was as a Republican. 00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:02.860 And I said, this was incredibly dangerous. As 00:09:02.860 --> 00:09:05.000 you know, John and Jim, that led to the resolution 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.539 with Tom Malinowski condemning QAnon. And by 00:09:08.539 --> 00:09:10.720 that point, you know, I'd already had the drive 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.919 -through convention. I was already called the 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.519 tool of the Antichrist. Um, you know, and after 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:18.399 the same sex wedding, I was accused of changing 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:21.379 the sexual orientation of children. And we were 00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:23.899 even accused of laundering money for George Soros 00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:28.840 through our distillery. So, um, it, it was literally, 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:32.299 it seemed like me against the world, you know, 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.100 Democrats weren't going to help as they thought 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:38.500 it was great, you know, um, you know, so Republicans 00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:40.100 aren't going to help because they think that 00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:42.620 I've gone against Trump. Right. So it really 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:45.440 was my wife and I looking around like, holy hell, 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.039 you know, literally we're alone. But I think 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:50.519 it was the best thing I've ever done. And now 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:52.139 I think people trust me. You know, even people 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:54.340 who might not like me, they're like, well, at 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:55.919 least that dumbass is going to tell the truth, 00:09:56.059 --> 00:09:59.340 you know, and he's a facts based guy. So that 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:01.299 that is helpful, I think, you know, in writing 00:10:01.299 --> 00:10:02.840 some of the books I did and things like that. 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:06.960 Denver, a few weeks ago, John and I interviewed 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:10.889 Adam Kinzinger, one of your. former congressman 00:10:10.889 --> 00:10:15.070 colleagues. And I asked him if he saw any Republican 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:18.789 candidates or Republicans in office now that 00:10:18.789 --> 00:10:20.850 he could truly support. And I'm going to ask 00:10:20.850 --> 00:10:25.110 you the same question. Right now? Right now. 00:10:25.169 --> 00:10:28.909 Do you see either running or is in office that 00:10:28.909 --> 00:10:31.110 you would say, yes, I would support that Republican? 00:10:32.370 --> 00:10:35.799 Any at all? Scrape the bottom of the barrel. 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:38.000 Thanks for the question, Jim. I appreciate you. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.460 I think one person I do respect is Don Bacon, 00:10:41.620 --> 00:10:44.139 former Air Force General out of Nebraska. Very 00:10:44.139 --> 00:10:47.139 good friend of mine. Call sign bits, by the way. 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:51.120 So just so you guys know. Also, you know, people 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.200 shouldn't sleep on Michael McCall. The issue 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:54.980 is Mike and Don aren't running again. That's 00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:57.129 why I was asking, you know, Jim. You know what? 00:10:57.470 --> 00:10:59.450 You know how far you want me to go on this? They're 00:10:59.450 --> 00:11:03.049 out. There's no way Don and Mike continue down 00:11:03.049 --> 00:11:05.090 this line. Right. And then you see people like 00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:07.509 Brian Fitzpatrick, who I thought, you know, he's 00:11:07.509 --> 00:11:11.029 going to stand up. You know, he's sort of wet 00:11:11.029 --> 00:11:13.549 noodle -ish. Right. You know, you have to be 00:11:13.549 --> 00:11:15.529 really careful what you say if you want to continue 00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:17.509 your political career in this MAGA environment. 00:11:23.169 --> 00:11:24.909 Well, I don't know what Adam said. Adam said 00:11:24.909 --> 00:11:27.610 none, just to be clear. Well, that's where we're 00:11:27.610 --> 00:11:29.850 at. People that are running right now at zero. 00:11:30.610 --> 00:11:32.129 And I don't know if you guys know this. Adam 00:11:32.129 --> 00:11:35.210 is part of my company. Adam and I are very close. 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:39.230 And, you know, good man. And, you know, he's 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:43.049 obviously media. He likes being out there, a 00:11:43.049 --> 00:11:44.190 lot of media, you know, I'm sort of the data 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:46.750 guy. But things are, you know, crazy right now 00:11:46.750 --> 00:11:48.730 with that. But I think that Adam's correct. There's 00:11:48.730 --> 00:11:51.190 really nobody. If you are aligned with Trump, 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:53.830 you're aligned with somebody who's been adjudicated 00:11:53.830 --> 00:11:57.830 for sexual assault, who's a felon, who has companies 00:11:57.830 --> 00:12:01.250 that have been indicted for fraud, and somebody 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:03.809 who simply liked to party with Epstein on a level 00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:06.750 that's very hard to get over, right, as all of 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:08.549 us as intelligence officers and looking at the 00:12:08.549 --> 00:12:11.240 actual proof in redactions. I think it's very 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.299 hard to support anybody who supports that guy 00:12:13.299 --> 00:12:16.200 or is part of that team. I think that's a fair 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.299 answer. You were on the January 6th committee, 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:22.139 and I want to ask you, when you joined the committee, 00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:25.379 what did you think you were walking into? What 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:27.960 interested you or shocked you once you saw the 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.220 data? And if you had like 10 minutes alone with 00:12:30.220 --> 00:12:32.580 someone who still says January 6th was no big 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:35.340 deal, what's the fact pattern that you'd put 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:39.600 in front of them? You know, oh, gosh. Hey, this 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:42.039 is a hell of a question here. No, this is wonderful. 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:44.080 No. So first, when I walked in there, I thought 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.299 after the first meetings that I would actually 00:12:46.299 --> 00:12:48.379 be able to build a proper fusion center. I think 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:50.860 I walked in there expecting that I was actually 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:52.960 running a counterterrorism investigation. But 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:55.539 and not to say that the committee didn't do incredible 00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:58.980 things, but I think Congress is ill suited for 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:02.320 a data driven or metadata specific investigation 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.019 of this complexity. You have to have the funding. 00:13:06.750 --> 00:13:09.409 the experts, but you have to have the tool sets. 00:13:09.570 --> 00:13:11.210 And when I say tool sets, I'm not talking about 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:13.070 just mental tool sets. I'm talking like actual 00:13:13.070 --> 00:13:16.070 tools and capabilities to parse that amount of 00:13:16.070 --> 00:13:18.470 data. And you also have to have the authorities. 00:13:18.570 --> 00:13:20.830 And I don't think people realize in Congress, 00:13:20.889 --> 00:13:22.909 they don't have law enforcement authorities. 00:13:23.049 --> 00:13:24.889 They only have authorities in the public trust. 00:13:25.370 --> 00:13:26.889 And it's something I wrote about in my book, 00:13:26.950 --> 00:13:28.429 The Breach, as you guys know, I wrote, and I 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:30.389 don't like to talk about it too much because, 00:13:30.429 --> 00:13:31.769 you know, it was just a New York Times bestseller, 00:13:31.889 --> 00:13:33.830 but, you know, so, but I, you know, I think. 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:38.200 I think when we're talking about when I walked 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.580 in there, I think it was I was still fighting 00:13:40.580 --> 00:13:42.659 these political headwinds from left and right 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:46.340 that I thought I could overcome and didn't. As 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:49.340 you know, boy, did I piss some people off. And 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:52.220 it ended up I was correct because data is, you 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:53.960 know, ones and zeros make the best witnesses, 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.580 I believe, you know, as we're going forward in 00:13:56.580 --> 00:14:00.240 this direction, in this world of data. I think 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:04.960 when you're talking about. the aftermath and 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.740 what I would do with somebody or what I would 00:14:06.740 --> 00:14:09.399 say to somebody who still thinks it's really 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.960 still a day of peace or it was a fedsurrection 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:16.419 or Ray Epps had something to do with it, which 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:18.279 I saw Ray Epps' phone records. We can go into 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:21.600 all these conspiracy theories. If I were to sit 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.899 down with somebody, I would say the first question 00:14:23.899 --> 00:14:25.620 I would ask anybody is, first of all, what you're 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:29.639 sourcing for what you know, right? And a lot 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:31.000 is like, okay, you're telling me this, what's 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.039 your source? Where did you get the information 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:35.899 and your source? And why did you come to the 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:38.620 conclusion on that information? And that's when 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:40.299 you sort of trip somebody up immediately on those 00:14:40.299 --> 00:14:43.019 specific questions. The second one after or the 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:47.200 second sort of strategy is I want you to simply 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.960 explain to me how every state's election system 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:53.519 works and where they would have penetrated. Go. 00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.039 Right. Here's the third one. OK, the election 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.259 was stolen. Why did the Republicans still take 00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:06.259 Congress? Go. So once I do that to people, I 00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:09.519 can almost see them start to dissemble. The other 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.519 thing, too, is I'm like, can I read the Meadows 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.759 text messages to you? May I read the text messages 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.059 from Jenny Thomas? By the way, I saw all the 00:15:19.059 --> 00:15:22.240 text messages from Ali Alexander. Also, I also 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.100 saw all the phone calls that were going from 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.039 rally planners and those associated with the 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:27.519 Proud Boys to the White House. Would you like 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.080 to talk about those? And why were the Oath Keepers 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.740 texting Andrew Giuliani? So these are the kind 00:15:33.740 --> 00:15:35.240 of things when you start really getting into 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.600 it, people start to dissemble. The issue is, 00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:39.919 though, is that the people who believe the Oath 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:41.919 Keepers and Proud Boys were right. There is no 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.500 way to bridge that gap because now you're talking 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:47.480 about somebody who's either ignorant, immoral, 00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:50.000 right, or so credulous as not to be worth your 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.200 time. So that's usually, John and Jim, how I 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:56.879 approach it. Like tomorrow on my little show, 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:58.700 which is, I don't know why people like it now. 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:00.860 It's exploded a bit. I'm going to be reading 00:16:00.860 --> 00:16:03.159 selected passages of the text messages tomorrow 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:05.539 for the people on the anniversary of January 00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:07.759 6th. Can you tell what your show is so people 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.090 can find it? Absolutely. It's going to be between 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:11.450 one and two. I'm going to announce it. We're 00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:12.970 trying to put it all together because I want, 00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:15.690 like, Tara Settmeyer to read Marjorie Taylor 00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:18.230 Greene. Like, I want some people to read some 00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:20.269 of these. But it was something spontaneous. It 00:16:20.269 --> 00:16:21.889 was like, Denver, you know more about the text 00:16:21.889 --> 00:16:23.710 messages than anybody on the planet. It is true. 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:28.009 I do. I know more about the context and how it's 00:16:28.009 --> 00:16:30.769 structured or how it actually outlined the entire 00:16:30.769 --> 00:16:32.990 plan of disinformation going forward. You can 00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:35.179 see it from November 1st. all the way through 00:16:35.179 --> 00:16:37.419 January 6th, the whole text message thread with 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:39.519 everyone. So I'm going to read that. So it's 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.220 going to be, it's like breach media. We're starting, 00:16:42.620 --> 00:16:44.899 but it's Denver After Dark, which is my, you 00:16:44.899 --> 00:16:47.519 know, my very smooth jazz podcast, John and Jim. 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:49.820 So, you know, so we're going to be doing that. 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:51.820 But I am reading that tomorrow. It's probably 00:16:51.820 --> 00:16:53.519 going to start in the afternoon between 1 and 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:55.899 2 p .m. It's going to be all over social media. 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:58.940 I'd love for you guys, I would, you know, if 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:00.580 somebody wants to read Don Jr., let me know. 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.679 But no, so it's just, it's going to be, it's 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:05.740 not, fun. It's, it's, you know, people are like, 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.039 oh God, this is great. No, it's actually sort 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:13.420 of a horror story. And it's, it's hard to, it's 00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:15.220 hard to encapsulate when you read a Jenny Thomas 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:18.799 text where she has information or she has communication 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.960 with Jared Kushner and she is working hand in 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.579 hand with Louie Gohmert's congressional office, 00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:25.859 you know, all three branches of government. you 00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.599 know, embodied in one individual, which I think 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:30.559 is the biggest mistake of the committee was not 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.299 subpoenaing, subpoenaed to Jenny Thomas. It was 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:36.099 her non -oath testimony or interview, which was 00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:39.539 worthless. So those are the kind of things that 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:43.759 I'm going to be doing. But yeah, buddy, I just 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.660 want people to understand that there's no way 00:17:46.660 --> 00:17:49.099 that this wasn't a coup attempt. Just for our 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:51.019 listeners, quickly, we're recording this on January 00:17:51.019 --> 00:17:52.960 5th, the day before January 6th when Denver is 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:54.599 going to be doing this. So they'll be hearing 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:56.180 it afterwards, but I'm sure they can find it 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:57.799 because it'll be, hopefully they'll get a lot 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.480 of attention. Well, if you guys want to put it 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:03.440 out on your social media channels, feel free, 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:05.299 but you know, have fun. Yeah, that's a great 00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:07.339 idea. Denver, you know, when John and I were 00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:09.960 in the agency, John was in for what, close to 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.359 30 years, weren't you, John? And I was there 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.799 for 25 years. And prior to the election in 2016, 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:19.240 I neither knew nor cared what any of my colleagues' 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.900 political affiliations or beliefs were. We were 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.140 supposed to be nonpartisan. And it never even 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:26.420 occurred to me to ask somebody. I assume it was 00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:27.980 like that when you were in the Air Force and 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:30.980 when you were working at NSA. What has happened 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:34.619 to America? Why have we become so entrenched, 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:39.839 so partisan? So, I mean, what is going on? I 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:43.279 had somebody. tell me that history always repeats. 00:18:43.420 --> 00:18:46.160 And we're in this situation, Jim, that this is 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.460 no different from the know -nothings. This is 00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:51.819 no different from any period in U .S. history 00:18:51.819 --> 00:18:55.400 where you have a propaganda or a tribal machine 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:58.579 that can take over in some way. And I push back 00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:01.160 pretty hard. You know, when you're talking about 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:04.519 the metastasization of radicalization or you're 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.680 talking about these type of things, social media 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.029 has had such a big impact. on the poisoning of 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:14.329 the well of sort of what America is. I think, 00:19:14.329 --> 00:19:16.650 you know, when you give everybody a voice and 00:19:16.650 --> 00:19:19.970 those voices can be magnified through specific 00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:23.069 motivations that aren't pure at all, or just 00:19:23.069 --> 00:19:26.150 grifting, or maybe even the ability to tap into 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:28.089 credulity in a way that we've never seen before. 00:19:28.190 --> 00:19:29.769 I mean, look at Marjorie Taylor Greene, millions 00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:33.390 of followers. trying to, you know, sort of rebuild 00:19:33.390 --> 00:19:35.650 her image, which is impossible, especially after 00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:40.009 I read the text. But, you know, almost impossible. 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:43.089 But I think it's really that ability to self 00:19:43.089 --> 00:19:45.990 -select. I had an incredible individual. We were 00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:47.630 talking about disinformation. I was in an essay. 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:52.549 And I don't know, this was right before I ran. 00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:56.450 So you're talking 2017, 2018, guys. He said something 00:19:56.450 --> 00:19:59.849 that blew my mind. And he goes, you know, Den. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.279 the world has gone from multicast to unicast. 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.180 I'm like, well, that's an interesting statement. 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:08.440 What do you mean? He goes, well, you know, back 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.140 in the day, you had all your channels, three 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.500 channels, right? You had ABC, NBC, CBS. You had 00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:15.660 the big three, multicast, and you just go between 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:18.299 those three. He goes, and now people are only 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.859 on one channel. I said, well, I want to push 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:22.539 back a little bit. I said, we're well above unicast. 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.900 You got a million channels. He goes, yeah, Dan. 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.720 He goes, but people are self -selecting one channel 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.549 or one information flow. And he goes, we've gone 00:20:30.549 --> 00:20:35.049 from less choices to less data. The more choices 00:20:35.049 --> 00:20:37.230 I have, the more you self -select into one barrel 00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:39.759 or one bin. Now, I don't know if that's 100 % 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:41.299 true, but it was a fascinating conversation. 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.819 And I'm wondering, you know, as I'm looking at 00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:46.259 these radicalization paths, when I look at Proud 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:48.920 Boys and Oath Keepers, I look at all the individuals, 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.220 right, that were out there. If you look at the 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.779 Donald .win or you go to Gab or you go to Parler 00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:56.539 or X Today, right, which is like Parler on steroids 00:20:56.539 --> 00:20:58.980 or Gab on steroids, right, the old right wing, 00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:02.200 you know, social media channels. When you look 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.980 at it, people self -select into that environment 00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:07.519 or into that ecosystem and they can't get out. 00:21:08.109 --> 00:21:09.910 And I think that's why you see more hate, more 00:21:09.910 --> 00:21:13.710 tribalism, more violence. But you also have demagogic 00:21:13.710 --> 00:21:16.410 leaders, people like Donald Trump with no moral 00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:19.410 compass whatsoever that can take advantage of 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:21.690 these new unicast self -selected ecosystems. 00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:24.910 And boy, I sounded like I used a lot of big polysyllabic 00:21:24.910 --> 00:21:26.930 words there. I apologize. But, you know, but 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:28.990 I think that's where we're at right now, right, 00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:31.549 is that people can self -select into crazy. And 00:21:31.549 --> 00:21:36.690 I think they like it. Yeah, it's self, it's entertainment. 00:21:37.529 --> 00:21:41.170 mixed with political news, right? You can pick 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:43.130 your own adventure, man. I mean, I could be a 00:21:43.130 --> 00:21:46.130 hero in my own movie, you know? Yeah, exactly. 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:48.670 And then also some people can make money off 00:21:48.670 --> 00:21:51.049 this. You get your own channel and you spin the 00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:53.930 stuff. So it's a tough time. So I want to move 00:21:53.930 --> 00:21:56.109 on to, you worked on the Hunter Biden legal team 00:21:56.109 --> 00:21:59.549 doing forensic and data analysis across the whole 00:21:59.549 --> 00:22:02.750 controversy. For those who remember, for a while, 00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:05.269 you know, the answer to anything was Hunter Biden's 00:22:05.269 --> 00:22:07.960 laptop. So you evaluated the claims about the 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.180 laptop material and whether the data was distorted 00:22:10.180 --> 00:22:13.759 or fabricated. So what's the single biggest misconception 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:18.519 the public has about the laptop as an evidence 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.799 object? The biggest misconception, and it's so 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.160 simple, but I think it makes me excited, right? 00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:28.700 The biggest misconception is that all data in 00:22:28.700 --> 00:22:33.759 the public sphere cannot be validated. There 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.309 is no data. that was used by Congress, that was 00:22:37.309 --> 00:22:39.809 used by anybody that had any forensic chain of 00:22:39.809 --> 00:22:42.609 custody. It is absolutely astounding. If you 00:22:42.609 --> 00:22:44.470 look at John Paul, you know, by the way, John 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:46.289 Paul MacIsaac wrote a book. People should read 00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:48.809 it. It's insane. He actually thought the Bidens 00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:51.549 were planting flower, giving him flowers full 00:22:51.549 --> 00:22:54.490 of poison. I mean, the guys, right? And this 00:22:54.490 --> 00:22:55.730 is the guy that, you know, that they're actually, 00:22:55.829 --> 00:22:58.049 so people should go find John Paul MacIsaac's 00:22:58.049 --> 00:22:59.650 book. And yeah, he might make a little bit of 00:22:59.650 --> 00:23:02.299 money, but you know what? Have pity on the man 00:23:02.299 --> 00:23:05.640 and read it and actually look at what he did. 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:08.079 He didn't even make a forensic copy of the laptop 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:10.000 anyway. He only made copies and gave them to 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.900 two separate sources that went to the Giuliani 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:13.700 and the Bannon teams. Now, think about that, 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.460 right? There are multiple. We had actually built 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.839 out, I think, 30 or 40 different people who had 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.559 their hands on the data at one time or the other 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:25.539 with an unsubstantiated copy. So when you're 00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:27.519 looking at Marco Polo, you're looking at 4chan 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:29.559 released by Yakov Applebaum, and I'll go into 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.720 that. There is nothing out there that was used 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.180 that could hold up in a court of law. Nothing. 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:38.480 It does not exist. And I think that's what's 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:43.880 so amazing. So, John, Jim, the people that wrote 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:47.140 the 51 that said that this looked like a Russian 00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:50.539 op, yeah. You know why? Because even if it wasn't 00:23:50.539 --> 00:23:52.460 state -sponsored, most of the people, even when 00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.440 you're talking about the 2020 report by Ron Johnson, 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:59.710 right, our boy, right, in the Senate. Telizhenko, 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.349 Durkash. You're looking at massive numbers of 00:24:02.349 --> 00:24:04.329 Russians and foreign assets that Giuliani was 00:24:04.329 --> 00:24:07.190 utilizing for data or for information that didn't 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:09.210 come from any validated source whatsoever. It 00:24:09.210 --> 00:24:11.609 just couldn't. Even the whistleblowers at the 00:24:11.609 --> 00:24:15.130 IRS, nobody misspells what they misspell, right? 00:24:15.910 --> 00:24:18.210 So there was just so many things that were so 00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.450 ludicrous about this. But really, to me, the 00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:21.829 American public, when somebody goes, well, the 00:24:21.829 --> 00:24:24.789 laptop. First of all, data and the laptop are 00:24:24.789 --> 00:24:28.589 mutually exclusive, number one. Right. Number 00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:30.230 two, if you're going to use data, it has to be 00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:32.269 forensically sound. It's not. And number three, 00:24:32.309 --> 00:24:35.170 maybe don't use foreign assets for information 00:24:35.170 --> 00:24:38.390 when you're doing a Senate investigation. So 00:24:38.390 --> 00:24:42.029 those are that's that's how I see it, guys, going 00:24:42.029 --> 00:24:44.210 forward and what I learned in that investigation. 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.420 Denver, if I recall correctly, you, I believe, 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.039 more or less identified yourself as a libertarian. 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.380 Maybe I may not be recalling correctly, but I 00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:57.299 used to be also a libertarian. Is there any room 00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:00.119 now for a libertarian today in today's political 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:05.400 atmosphere? I really wonder. No, no. I mean, 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.680 you know, I'm a civil libertarian. You know, 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:09.839 it was interesting because people. You know, 00:25:09.859 --> 00:25:11.279 Jim, people are like, Denver, you're a libertarian. 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:13.339 I'm like, because I don't care what people do 00:25:13.339 --> 00:25:15.240 in their bedroom, I'm also pretty strong on foreign 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.079 policy, right? So maybe I'm a neo -libertarian. 00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:20.440 Well, you know, the old joke is if you have 100 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:22.759 libertarians, you have 150 different political 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:26.480 directions. Exactly, exactly, right? But I think 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:28.380 libertarian today, I think there's just nowhere, 00:25:28.579 --> 00:25:30.599 ain't nowhere you can be if you're pure libertarian 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:32.839 all the way down the line, right? And there's 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:34.740 just no way with the way that we're funneled 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:36.240 with data and things like that. And I apologize 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.000 if there's some construction going on over here. 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.500 There's just no way that you can actually, I 00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:42.460 think, funnel anywhere and get anything done 00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:44.720 if you're libertarian, because then you start 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.799 to you start to spin off into things that don't 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.960 make sense to somebody who's just trying to live 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.779 day to day. So, you know, I think libertarianism 00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:55.000 is dead. I think you can have libertarians sort 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.180 of lean like civil libertarian like I am, which 00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:59.640 I mean, I don't care if you worship a head of 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.660 lettuce. Right. Or, you know, I just I don't 00:26:02.660 --> 00:26:05.599 give a rat's, you know, but but I certainly do 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:10.480 care. If you have a country that's, I don't know, 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.900 pushing out foreign disinformation through social 00:26:13.900 --> 00:26:15.720 media channels through Russia, North Korea, Iran, 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.400 you know. So, you know, so there's that. Right. 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.240 So that's I think that's where I'm at right now, 00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:25.299 Jim. Let me ask you, you know, we've talked a 00:26:25.299 --> 00:26:26.960 little bit about your diagnosis, the Republican 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.619 Party. We can talk a little more about that. 00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:31.740 But what's the biggest weakness or the biggest 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.660 self -delusion of the Democrats that you see? 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.339 Oh, my gosh. Great question. And that's why, 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.559 you know, I do self -identify as unaffiliated. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.500 I just want you guys to know. I think the biggest 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:46.039 delusion of the Democrats, again, is they keep 00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:48.660 redoing the same mistakes. First of all, I think 00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:50.420 they always want to play with Marcus of Queensberry 00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:53.660 rules when it's a goddang, you know, it's a bar 00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:56.180 brawl. I've never seen anything like it. You 00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:58.000 know, they're like, you know what? We need to 00:26:58.000 --> 00:26:59.980 put on six -ounce gloves before we step into 00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:01.680 the ring, right? And they're shooting somebody 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.670 with a crossbow. before they walk in there, you 00:27:03.670 --> 00:27:05.650 know? So, you know, and it just feels like they 00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:07.990 don't understand what the temperature is of America 00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:10.630 right now. And I also think that they go into 00:27:10.630 --> 00:27:12.849 certain types of social issues that nobody gives 00:27:12.849 --> 00:27:16.849 a rat's ass about. Or they think it's ludicrous, 00:27:16.869 --> 00:27:19.210 you know? And, you know, and I've had these debates 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:20.650 with Democrats, like, well, Denver, I guess you 00:27:20.650 --> 00:27:23.190 still are a Republican, you know? And I'm like, 00:27:23.269 --> 00:27:25.950 wait a minute. As a civil libertarian, I don't 00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:28.680 care. what anybody does or what they do. But 00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.819 there are certain types of factual things that 00:27:30.819 --> 00:27:33.119 have to happen when it comes to, say, sports 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:35.339 and things of that nature that you sort of just 00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:37.619 got to say, yeah, it's probably probably the 00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:41.059 right way to go. And I also think as far as the 00:27:41.059 --> 00:27:42.940 economy is concerned, I think they always try 00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:45.700 to regulate themselves into prosperity or it 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:48.160 looks like the Republicans are trying to fascism 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.740 their way into prosperity, you know. And I think 00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:53.039 that's the other thing, too, is that it's much 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.720 easier. I think, to identify those that are regulate, 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:58.660 regulate, regulate, or they just or they still 00:27:58.660 --> 00:28:01.319 are on the tax side and things like that, then 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:03.960 it is in the much more, I think, dangerous way 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.799 of giving out favors to social media billionaires 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.279 in order to get monies back for ballrooms or 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.500 to make sure you enrich yourself in the White 00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:15.920 House. So I just don't think the Democrats have 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.650 cracked the nut yet on being tough enough. on 00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:21.170 identifying the proper, I would say the proper 00:28:21.170 --> 00:28:24.109 policies, but also looking where America actually 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:27.930 is. Stop being idealistic. It's time to be, I 00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:30.130 think, realistic on what you need to be. And 00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:31.450 if you want to be for the working people, be 00:28:31.450 --> 00:28:33.170 for the working people. If you want to be for 00:28:33.170 --> 00:28:36.009 folks to make sure they're taken care of, be 00:28:36.009 --> 00:28:40.369 that. But don't look at specific identity politics 00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:43.200 as the only politics there are. I think that's 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.279 rough. And you're seeing MAGA do that with evangelicalism, 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:48.220 right, and religious fundamentalism also. So, 00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:50.559 listen, it's two sides of the same coin sometimes, 00:28:50.779 --> 00:28:52.400 but I would say that the Republicans are in a 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.720 hold my beer moment. I think they're much nuttier 00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:57.880 than the Democrats right now, to be honest. You 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.599 know, I think George will summarize that, Denver, 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.940 when he said that Dems' problem is they're weak, 00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:07.630 whiny, and woke. I thought that was pretty good. 00:29:07.690 --> 00:29:09.910 We're like America's HR department. Yeah, exactly. 00:29:09.950 --> 00:29:11.930 We are like America's HR department. And we, 00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:14.529 you know, and that's a great way to say it. I 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:16.710 mean, to be honest, and, you know, and gosh, 00:29:16.910 --> 00:29:18.690 you know, I supported Abigail Spanberger here 00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:19.849 in Virginia. You know, I'm on her transition 00:29:19.849 --> 00:29:23.029 committee and a great person. And everybody's 00:29:23.029 --> 00:29:24.430 like, oh my God, so you're a Democrat. I'm like, 00:29:24.490 --> 00:29:26.869 no, I'm sort of to that pick the person type 00:29:26.869 --> 00:29:28.089 of thing, because there's no way I was picking 00:29:28.089 --> 00:29:30.920 Winsome Sears, right? You've got to choose the 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:33.099 best person for the job. But I'm hoping, you 00:29:33.099 --> 00:29:35.140 know, from what Abby said and what I can see, 00:29:35.180 --> 00:29:37.220 maybe she's going to go down that line of doing 00:29:37.220 --> 00:29:40.059 the best regardless of party. Yeah, she's a friend 00:29:40.059 --> 00:29:42.859 of ours, obviously a great person. And I think 00:29:42.859 --> 00:29:44.619 a number of these women who have national security 00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:48.720 experience like you and Jim, you know, take the 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.119 job seriously. When you come into Congress, when 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.359 you come into government, you see yourself as 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.220 a professional who's trying to work for the American 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:57.990 people. And I think what's happened is. Because 00:29:57.990 --> 00:30:00.349 people realize that, you know, stoking fear and 00:30:00.349 --> 00:30:02.910 creating false narratives, you know, gets them 00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:05.410 play on certain on Fox News and other things. 00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:07.990 They've sort of moved towards that entertainment, 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:10.670 angertainment type of thing. And there's still 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:12.849 a few people who want to actually do work. And 00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:15.509 I think that's the danger here is the Republicans 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:17.890 are into the angertainment thing is at some point 00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:20.130 the American people are like, aren't you going 00:30:20.130 --> 00:30:21.829 to actually do any work? Like you've moved so 00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:25.230 far to the fringe that there's no way to compromise 00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:27.960 and actually. have laws or do anything. And it's 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.900 crazy. I think anger and fear make you a lot 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:33.759 more money in fundraising too than policy. Well, 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.240 that's true, isn't it? You know, you hire consultants. 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:39.700 I remember I made a lot more money when my flyer, 00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:41.519 when my digital fundraising said, Nancy Pelosi 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:46.320 is a socialist who wants to eat your dogs. Right. 00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:48.539 Rather than saying, hey, I'm ready to bring rural 00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:51.259 broadband to Virginia. Yeah, we need to make 00:30:51.259 --> 00:30:53.900 a lot more money on the more hyperbolic, crazy, 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.460 insane type of fundraising, you know, outreach. 00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.839 I think that that's now that's just politics. 00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:01.319 And it's a shame because the country's suffering, 00:31:01.420 --> 00:31:04.420 guys. I mean, you know, national debt, when you 00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:05.720 look at the deficit and the debt, when you're 00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:07.019 looking at unemployment, when you're looking 00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:09.039 at housing starts, when you're looking at bankruptcies, 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:11.460 I mean, things just aren't good. And but but, 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.349 you know. At least we're going into Venezuela, 00:31:13.529 --> 00:31:16.430 you know, and at least, you know, we're building 00:31:16.430 --> 00:31:19.089 ballrooms. I mean, there you go. America first. 00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:24.009 How about it? Do you have any short comments 00:31:24.009 --> 00:31:27.089 about our latest venture into Venezuela? Anything 00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:31.210 that you'd care to share with us? No, I think 00:31:31.210 --> 00:31:33.789 there's I think there's a distinct I think you 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:35.369 can have two things happen. I think you can have 00:31:35.369 --> 00:31:38.609 a successful military operation with very faulty 00:31:38.609 --> 00:31:41.180 foreign policy. And, you know, I think that's 00:31:41.180 --> 00:31:43.059 the thing that I was looking at is, you know, 00:31:43.059 --> 00:31:44.799 a reminder of Saddam Hussein a little bit, you 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:46.720 know, and I know we could have this discussion 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.400 on a whole nother podcast, but man, it was great 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.920 to take Saddam Hussein out. But if you do it 00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.220 for the wrong reasons, sometimes that cascading 00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:56.660 effect can be absolutely brutal. And if you don't 00:31:56.660 --> 00:31:58.140 have an exit plan, when you look at Venezuela, 00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.759 you're like, oh my God, have they looked at the 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.759 actual size and the geography of Venezuela? And 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.440 by the way, You know, are you looking at Guyana 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.220 and Suriname? Are you looking at Colombia? Are 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:10.440 you looking at Brazil? You know, it's just insane 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:13.220 to me that the incompetence of this administration 00:32:13.220 --> 00:32:15.900 has led to this. And everybody's like, well, 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.299 Denver, Maduro's a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah, Maduro's 00:32:19.299 --> 00:32:22.900 a bad guy. But it doesn't mean that as the United 00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:24.839 States of America, where we're supposed to be 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:27.440 and the standard we're supposed to set, that 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:29.200 we just go into place because of a guy's a bad 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.349 guy or because... As Trump said specifically, 00:32:32.549 --> 00:32:34.450 he told the oil companies he was going in before 00:32:34.450 --> 00:32:37.829 Congress, or that this is about oil, which he 00:32:37.829 --> 00:32:40.509 said unequivocally. So it's pretty amazing to 00:32:40.509 --> 00:32:42.809 me that that's where we're at. It's not about 00:32:42.809 --> 00:32:44.910 democracy. It's not about helping the people 00:32:44.910 --> 00:32:48.490 of Venezuela. It's about ensuring that the donor 00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:51.490 class or the people that are around him are somehow 00:32:52.089 --> 00:32:54.150 you know, part of the exit plan because he's 00:32:54.150 --> 00:32:56.890 a lame duck. This is an exit plan foreign policy. 00:32:56.990 --> 00:32:58.470 This isn't a foreign policy about the future 00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:00.990 of the United States. So there's my short statement, 00:33:01.029 --> 00:33:03.490 sir. I think it's fair. I mean, we've learned, 00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:05.190 we should have learned from Iraq, Afghanistan. 00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:08.730 Going in is fairly easy, but how you end up on 00:33:08.730 --> 00:33:12.089 the other side, and Donald Trump is the laziest 00:33:12.089 --> 00:33:13.609 politician I've ever seen. He doesn't want to 00:33:13.609 --> 00:33:16.220 do the hard work necessary. for the back end 00:33:16.220 --> 00:33:18.359 of this. So like he wants to, you know, just 00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:20.079 do some quick bombing in Iran and say, I've solved 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:22.019 the problem. I should get a peace prize. People 00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.819 should, you know, fawn over me. He wants self 00:33:24.819 --> 00:33:26.740 -validation and he wants it quickly. He doesn't 00:33:26.740 --> 00:33:29.859 actually want to work for it. So same thing here. 00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:32.519 Oh, yeah, we've succeeded. You know, everybody 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.319 should laud me. Like, you know, if we said that 00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:37.960 in the beginning of Iraq or Afghanistan, it would 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.460 have been laughable by the time we walked out 00:33:40.460 --> 00:33:43.029 with our tail between our legs. Like the Iranian 00:33:43.029 --> 00:33:46.470 nuclear facilities. It brings to mind Colin Powell's 00:33:46.470 --> 00:33:49.109 pottery barn thing about if you break it, it's 00:33:49.109 --> 00:33:51.509 yours. You break it. That's right. You break 00:33:51.509 --> 00:33:54.670 it. It's yours. It's all yours. But yeah, absolutely. 00:33:55.430 --> 00:33:57.410 Well, let me ask you, you know, we don't want 00:33:57.410 --> 00:33:58.890 to keep you too long here. We really appreciate 00:33:58.890 --> 00:34:02.930 your time. You have some companies now that are 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:04.269 working on data and stuff. I want to hear a little 00:34:04.269 --> 00:34:06.009 bit about that. But I'm actually excited, obviously, 00:34:06.009 --> 00:34:07.710 about the whiskey business. Tell me a little 00:34:07.710 --> 00:34:11.300 bit about that. Well, yeah, so we've been in 00:34:11.300 --> 00:34:14.000 business about 11 years. My wife's a famous, 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.519 nationally renowned bourbon and whiskey maker. 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.119 Also gin and vodka locations. Is that why you 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.539 married her? No, I wish. No, that's awful. I 00:34:23.539 --> 00:34:26.159 shouldn't say that. No, honestly, I don't know 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.860 why she married me, John. I mean, we've been 00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:30.099 married since we were 19. So what, 36 years, 00:34:30.260 --> 00:34:32.940 you know? So yeah, but she, you know, she was 00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:34.519 with me in thick and thin when I deployed. You 00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.929 guys know, I mean. spouses that stay behind three 00:34:37.929 --> 00:34:40.050 kids, pretty much a single mom, you know, and 00:34:40.050 --> 00:34:42.210 then when I finally sold my first company, I 00:34:42.210 --> 00:34:43.730 said, it's my turn to follow you. What do you 00:34:43.730 --> 00:34:45.210 want to do? And she goes, I want to make liquor. 00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:47.829 And I knew I'd hit the jackpot. So, so anyway, 00:34:48.050 --> 00:34:49.710 so I said, okay, that's what you want to do. 00:34:49.889 --> 00:34:51.630 We can make that happen. So we have two locations. 00:34:53.419 --> 00:34:55.780 I was forced to sell my second company when I 00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:56.940 won the election. I didn't think I was going 00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:58.599 to win. As you know, John, I am the accidental 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.380 congressman. And then so with this company, AI 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:03.639 Automation, it is insurance and health technologies, 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.920 but the actual automation layers we're building 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.000 is actually helping with law enforcement and 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.090 security. based on automating video management 00:35:11.090 --> 00:35:15.570 and intelligence by linking persona data to biometrics. 00:35:15.650 --> 00:35:18.090 And our automation layers work for that too. 00:35:18.230 --> 00:35:20.730 So we have this huge technology transfer thing 00:35:20.730 --> 00:35:22.690 going where we're doing incredible stuff in insurance 00:35:22.690 --> 00:35:24.650 technologies and health technologies for doctors 00:35:24.650 --> 00:35:27.059 and patients. And we're also doing automation 00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:29.199 layers on video management and identification 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.019 technologies using artificial intelligence and 00:35:32.019 --> 00:35:36.760 graph neural networks. So pretty insane. And 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:38.460 then we just went through a really big funding 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:42.519 phase. Just incredible what we build. We got 00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.900 patentable technologies now. And our service 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:47.800 side company is called RIG, Riggleman Information 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.500 Intelligence Group. And our health and insurance 00:35:50.500 --> 00:35:52.760 technology is Hoodle. Humans out of the loop. 00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:55.059 I was able to trademark that. We need like a 00:35:55.059 --> 00:35:57.199 Google or Twitter name. I came up with Hoodle. 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:01.360 So there you go. So it's RIG, Hoodle, depending 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.360 on what the vertical is. And we are doing automation 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.920 technologies that transfer not only to commercial. 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:12.320 but to security -based applications. And I sounded 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:19.360 crazy. And can you tell people about what you're 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.099 doing in the media sphere and about your books? 00:36:21.139 --> 00:36:22.000 So if they're looking for more information. Oh, 00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:23.420 they just learned about me. God help them, John. 00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:25.619 They just learned about you. God help them. How 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.780 can they find out more? Yeah, so in media, I 00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:30.659 have my Denver After Dark podcast, which we're 00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:32.579 about to turn into The Breach. I'm on the news 00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:34.940 all the time. I have a book called The Breach. 00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:37.760 It was about January 6th. It was a... You know, 00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:39.800 it's a very in a humble way, you know, to be 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.760 a bestseller is really cool. It seems like it's 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.480 selling again for some reason, too. I was like, 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.400 that's pretty interesting. But, yeah, it's called 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.559 The Breach. I also had a book before that that 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.260 was, as you know, is famous called Bigfoot. It's 00:36:53.260 --> 00:36:55.980 Complicated, which is about cult believers. But 00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:58.219 the Democrats, when they ran against me, thought 00:36:58.219 --> 00:37:00.119 it was about pornography. And I was hit with 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.280 that, as you know, on Saturday Night Live as 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.500 a devotee of Bigfoot erotica when the book was 00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:08.320 actually about disinformation. But the one time 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:10.539 the Democrats take their gloves off, they accuse 00:37:10.539 --> 00:37:17.559 me of Bigfoot porn. And then. So if anyone's 00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:19.900 interested in that, my other podcast that I do 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.480 with another CIA former colleague called Mission 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.000 Implausible about conspiracy theories, we interviewed 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.719 Dundee. I'm also, not only do I go after conspiracy 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.400 theories, as you know, I'm also the victim of 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:32.980 conspiracy theories. So I'm in an incredible 00:37:32.980 --> 00:37:35.840 position. So many conspiracy theories. It's not 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.059 just that, guys. Trust me. I did not know I worship 00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:41.900 Satan. Like, there's a lot out there about me. 00:37:42.789 --> 00:37:45.489 that I'm like, wow, I didn't know I did that. 00:37:46.750 --> 00:37:49.530 And I have a third book that we're working on 00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:52.590 right now about three girls in Ukraine who helped 00:37:52.590 --> 00:37:55.909 spy on Russians during the Kherson invasion and 00:37:55.909 --> 00:37:57.730 liberation, which I've been to Ukraine multiple 00:37:57.730 --> 00:38:01.090 times, and I'm working with UTA on that, which 00:38:01.090 --> 00:38:03.590 is pretty incredible. I'm also writing a fiction 00:38:03.590 --> 00:38:09.639 book about a former... intelligence cat who likes 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:11.780 to bury bodies. That is not me. It's not based 00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:15.000 on me. I'm just going to let you guys know. So 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.199 there's that. And, you know, dabble a little 00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:22.760 bit in music and help my wife test whiskey. So 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:26.480 there you go. That's my life. I'm on X. I'm on 00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:28.440 Blue Sky. I'm on Substack. Sounds like a good 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:35.440 life. Yeah. There you go. Sounds great. All right. 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:38.250 Well, Denver, thank you for your time. Fantastic. 00:38:38.510 --> 00:38:40.849 I hope if people weren't aware of you, they will 00:38:40.849 --> 00:38:42.429 be and they'll follow you and read your books. 00:38:42.809 --> 00:38:44.989 And we'd like to hopefully have you on again 00:38:44.989 --> 00:38:48.369 as events transpire over this next year. It's 00:38:48.369 --> 00:38:51.010 going to be crazier than 25, guys. Going up into 00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:54.510 the midterms, I think it might be the most potential 00:38:54.510 --> 00:38:58.289 of violence, I would say, in certain polling 00:38:58.289 --> 00:39:02.199 places around the country. And people who really 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:04.059 lose their minds. I think past performance is 00:39:04.059 --> 00:39:05.719 indicative of future performance. So I think 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:07.480 the conspiracy theories about stolen elections 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:10.920 will cascade between 26 and 28 on a level we've 00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:17.000 never seen. I worry about that as well, especially 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.780 since to serve in the president administration, 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.139 you have to believe that 2020 was stolen. And 00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:24.079 therefore, the notion that you'll try to steal 00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:28.519 2028 is not actually too far fetched. So sad, 00:39:28.659 --> 00:39:33.280 really sad. It is too sad. Well, on that high 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:35.679 note, let me say, listen, if you like what you're 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.880 hearing, please subscribe to The Sentinel and 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.860 follow Steady State content and give us a five 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:42.980 -star review on Google. The reviews help us get 00:39:42.980 --> 00:39:44.780 this important content to the widest audience 00:39:44.780 --> 00:39:47.300 possible. Thank you for that. So stay informed, 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.699 stay engaged, and join us next Tuesday for another 00:39:49.699 --> 00:39:52.480 episode of The Steady State Sentinel. This is 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.539 John Seifer, Denver Riegelman, and Jim Lawler, 00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:00.690 still standing watch. Thank you. Thank you for 00:40:00.690 --> 00:40:03.110 listening to the Steady State Sentinel podcast. 00:40:03.869 --> 00:40:07.170 Don't miss out on more insights and exposés from 00:40:07.170 --> 00:40:10.769 America's premier global security experts. Also, 00:40:10.829 --> 00:40:14.630 subscribe to our Substack at substack .com slash 00:40:14.630 --> 00:40:18.869 at SteadyState1 and follow our social media and 00:40:18.869 --> 00:40:20.889 join us right here next week for another exciting 00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:24.849 edition. The Steady State is a nonprofit organization 00:40:24.849 --> 00:40:27.849 working to sustain our democracy and national 00:40:27.849 --> 00:40:31.630 security. Join us and support our mission by 00:40:31.630 --> 00:40:34.809 visiting www .the steady state .org.