The Steady State Sentinel is produced by the
Steady State, a community of former national
security professionals who spent their careers
safeguarding the United States at home and abroad.
Today, we continue that mission by staying true
to our oaths to defend the Constitution, uphold
our democracy and protect our nation's security.
Join our expert hosts as they interview field
-tested guests whose unique experiences shed
light on the crises and challenges facing our
nation. All right, you're listening to the Steady
State Sentinel. I'm John Seifer, along with my
former CIA colleague, Jim Lawler, both former
officers in CIA's clandestine service. Today's
guest is someone who's been at the center of
the biggest political storms of the last few
years and decided to stand his ground anyway.
Adam Kinzinger is a former U .S. congressman
from Illinois, a longtime member of the Air National
Guard, and one of the most prominent Republican
critics of Donald Trump. He served on the House
Elect Committee investigating the January 6th
attack on the Capitol. a decision to put him
at odds with much of his own party and ultimately
cost him his seat in Congress. And he's the subject
of a recent Amazon documentary called The Last
Republican. Since leaving office, Adams has become
a leading voice on courage in politics, the future
of American democracy, and what it means to put
country over party. He's also been unusually
honest about the personal cost of all that, the
threats, the isolation, and the backlash, even
from people he once considered friends and allies.
So whether you agree with his politics or not,
Adam's story raises big questions about integrity,
fear, and what we're willing to risk for what
we believe. So with that, let's just jump in.
Adam Kinzinger, welcome to the podcast. Hey,
listen, but if you don't agree with my policies,
you're wrong. You should have added that. No,
it's good to be with you guys. Look, and I want
to apologize. I'm not sure if you guys use the
video or just audio, but regardless, I'm going
to sound okay. I will sound to everybody sick
because I am. So I want to just... On the front
end, apologize, but we'll be good. We're going
to make it through this. So thanks for having
me. Well, I know you want to sound muscular and
masculine. So yeah, maybe we can fix that. But
just to start real quick, obviously you served
in the Air Force and in Congress. And I'm really
interested in how your sense of duty developed.
Like basically, I'm asking, how does one cultivate
the quote unquote character muscle that's needed
to say country first when the party says otherwise?
Is there anything from your experience building
blocks? It's a great question, and it's probably
something that, you know, most of your folks
that worked with you can share and understand,
right? It's like, it's a couple things. Like,
I've never understood people that, you know,
do a job, whether it's military, whether it's
intelligence, whether it's politics, you know,
that is so impactful on so many people's lives,
and they don't care about what their role in
history is or the bigger cause. This just becomes
like, it's about my career or whatever. So for
me, it was a combination a little bit of how
I was raised. You know, obviously, you got to
have parents that instill something like that
in you. But really, so I had come back from Iraq
in 2010, I guess 2009, and basically announced
I was running for Congress right then. And I
remember thinking, you know, look, if... I am
going to run for a job that is going to, you
know, I'm going to pass budgets. I'm going to
probably vote for people to go to war. You know,
these different things. Like, if I'm going to
put people's lives on the line, I have to be
willing to give my career for the country, right?
Like, okay, a 19 -year -old who goes and dies
on behalf of the United States of America, as
terrible as it is, we need people willing to
do that. And if I'm going to ask people to do
that, but not be willing to give up $174 ,000
a year job, I don't have a right to it. And so
the interesting thing is like throughout my whole
time running, and then even when I was elected,
I would talk about that. And then that moment
happened. I thought it would be like, you know,
voting to fix social security or something that
would kill me. I didn't think it would be, you
know, January 6th, but that's what happened.
And I really honestly, when... You know, the
president claimed that night of the election,
he's like, they're stealing the election, the
whole intervening time. I just, I saw no other
option. I didn't see any other possibility but
to just do what I ended up doing. And frankly,
99 % of my colleagues should have said the same
thing. Adam, I've got a question. Do you think
there's still room in the Republican Party for
moderates or centrists? Prior to the 2016 election,
I was a moderate Republican. And now, like a
reformed smoker who hates smoking, I've become
a relatively strident anti -Trump activist. I
feel like the Republican Party personally has
lost its soul and betrayed me. But I'd love to
hear your views on this. Look, I fully agree
with you. I don't think there is room. I think,
in fact, if you're a conservative, so if you're
listening and you consider yourself a conservative,
like an actual conservative governing philosophy,
you shouldn't be a Republican because there's
nothing conservative about the Republican Party.
It's illiberal, right? Conservatism used to believe
in, you know, a small government, but an important
role for government, you know, strong national
defense. This guy is the opposite of that, and
he's convinced. an entire party that basically
their biggest allegiance is not to the Constitution.
It's to him. And so, no, Jim, I don't think that
there's any space for anybody like you or I in
the party right now. And I think this goes to
my Democratic friends, and it's kind of the message
I'm out there preaching, which is like, look,
I would love in a perfect world to be able to
have like a centrist third party. It's not going
to happen. So where does that leave people that
feel politically homeless, which now is a significant
amount of the country? It's the Democratic Party.
And so the Democrats have got to be willing to
have disagreements in the tent. But at least
you're in power, because when you're not in power,
you lose everything. When you're in power, you
can have those battles. Now, I hope in 10 years,
when Donald Trump is out and this kind of cancer
goes through the GOP, that there will be a space
again. But I'm not going to sit and hold my breath
till that happens. They have, in my mind, the
Republican Party has lost their right to govern.
Your documentary, which I watched recently and
thought was excellent, The Last Republican. Thank
you. It offers a lot of the behind the scenes
view of your final year in Congress and your
role with the January 6th committee and the personal
cost of your taking a different path than a lot
of your Republican colleagues. So what motivated
you to open your life and do that documentary,
that kind of scrutiny? That's a great question
because I didn't want to do it. But it's funny
because I actually didn't even want to be on
the committee. So, you know, I voted to impeach
Trump and then I voted to form the committee.
There were 10 of us that voted to impeach. And
then just Liz and I were the ones that voted
for the committee, which was disappointing. But,
you know, we did. And, you know, they ended up
putting Liz on the committee. And I remember
thinking, good, like, because, you know, Pelosi
is going to put a Republican on there. Thank
God it's Liz. Now I can live my life. And and,
you know, I end up getting put on it, obviously.
And so. And we had all these different documentaries
that would come and kind of talk to me, documentarians
that would come and talk to me and be like, hey,
we want to follow you. We want to, you know,
we want to dial, we want to figure out what's
going on here. But a lot of it was focused on,
we're interested in the horse race. Can a guy
who's anti -Trump win in a primary against Trump?
You know, and it was all that kind of stuff.
And I knew at the time that I probably wasn't
going to run again. I mean, I had been in Congress
12 years, which I think is long enough anyway.
I finally talked to Steve Pink, who was the director
of Hot Tub Time Machine, one of my favorite movies.
He also did Gross Point Blank, High Fidelity,
like a lot of ones you've heard of. And then
Kevin Morris was the financier. They basically
talked to me, and I knew Kevin from a prior life.
And he's like, look, we're actually interested
in the human element, not the horse race. And
so I talked with my wife, and we finally agreed
to do it because we're like, two things. Number
one. I think it's important for people to see
the human toll, the human impact that I knew
was coming. I mean, obviously, I hadn't even
lived it yet. But second is, you know, we're
in the middle of having a child. And it's like,
how are we ever going to explain this time to
him? And we figured this is the best way to do
it. And so he's four now, and he's old enough
and cognizant. Someday he'll watch this movie
and kind of get an idea of what he went through
as a baby. And so that's kind of what I think,
you know, what motivated us to do it. It was
a tough decision. And Steve's a big liberal,
right? So how is that working with him? Oh, yeah,
he is. So it's funny because the movie ends up
being basically. It tells the story of January
6th a little bit. It's the human element. And
then it's also this like tug and pull between
him and I, like I'm kind of the conservative,
he's the liberal. And we end up, you know, we're
friends, right? And so that's kind of an important
lesson. But yeah, he actually, they filmed this
and they were editing it and they realized that
we had this like banter back and forth between
us. And they're like, this is a great. Perfect
way to kind of lay out the film. And so it's
funny. I actually would say he learned a ton
through doing this because he's like, I learned
that a conservative or at least a centrist, I
can get along with them. So I've changed his
life for the better, I'm proud to say. Adam,
I'm interested in whether you can identify any
current Republican political candidates or office
holders who share your moral courage and values,
your conservative values. I mean, do you see
any on the horizon or in place now? No. No, if
you'd ask me, you know, I'd say between, you
know, 17 and maybe 21 or 22, I probably could
have found a few Republicans that are standing
tall, right? You think of like Brad Raffensperger.
I guess I'll say Brad Raffensperger is actually
an example. You know, the Secretary of State
of Georgia stood up against Trump, still got
reelected, running for governor now. He's actually
running against another friend of mine who I'm
very supportive of, Jeff Duncan, who was the
lieutenant governor Republican now running as
a Democrat for the same reason we discussed.
He just recognized there's no home in the GOP.
But no, I wish I could say here's a huge litany
of people that represent the kind of values we
need, but they've all been drummed out. I mean,
they've either decided not to run again. They've
lost their primary. You know, Donald Trump has
been in our life for 10 years, 10 years. And
you cannot survive, you know, this cult that
demands 100 % loyalty for 10 years with your
morals intact. And you guys know this as intel
people, which is like, you understand better
than I do, or maybe as good as politicians do,
because we have an innate understanding of people.
You understand that people can convince themselves
that anything they do is right. right i mean
why is it in 1936 you wouldn't have recruited
anybody in nazi germany to guard a tower at auschwitz
but by the 40s you could do it because you make
little and i'm again i'm not comparing them to
nazis here but it's like you make little like
compromises in your soul. And you, the human
condition, can convince yourself that whatever
you're doing is right. I mean, Al Qaeda believes
they're the holy warriors, right? They believe
what they're doing is right. And so, yeah, after
10 years, these folks have convinced themselves,
even against all evidence, that, yeah, Donald
Trump may be a little uncouth, but he's a good
dude. And he's fighting the evil people in Hollywood
or whatever, you know, and that's where we're
at. It's sort of like an organized crime boss,
too, that makes you complicit, makes you say
something that's illegal or wrong, and then you're
bought and they own you, right? Yep, 100%. I
have a question. So you were on the committee
and you uncovered volumes of documents, interviews,
debates. I thought it was really, obviously,
well done. So here's my question. What juicy
stuff did you leave out? What other stuff do
you have on Trump and January 6th that you didn't
bring up in the committee? I wish there was a
bunch of cool stuff. A lot of it is in the report,
so it may not have come up in the hearings. You
know, one of the things that I think is interesting
is like the financing side of this. So we didn't
unfortunately get enough attention to it because
we kind of had to limit what we could do. But
one of the things you see is how. You guys, again,
understanding radicalization, how the fundraising
emails between the night of the election and
January 6th radicalized about 30 percent of the
GOP. So you imagine it like every day if you're
on the donor list where you get the emails, you
get 10 emails every day that say something along
the lines of they're stealing the election. Nancy
Pelosi is this. So and so is that. And eventually
that radicalized so many people. So that was
like stuff that I wish we'd have been able to
talk more about is just like how the fundraising
stuff, how the money situation is so corrosive
and radicalizing. But I also think this, which
is we did a lot of work. We uncovered a lot of
stuff. But quite honestly, where we ended could
have been where the DOJ was. when we started.
Instead, what we saw, and I have a lot of bitterness
about this, what we saw is we did our first hearing
a year after, that first in the series. So a
year after the committee was formed, we have
our first major hearing. And only then did the
GOJ go, oh my goodness, there's a lot of information
here. We better go after Donald Trump. And then
they appointed Jack Smith. To his credit, he
did the best he could, but he was up against
the clock. So I have a lot of anger against Merrick
Garland because he should have, on the day he
became attorney general, should have put a special
counsel in charge. And instead he waited for
us, who, by the way, we didn't have near the
tools that DOJ has to get confessions or to get
testimony. And yet we were able to uncover enough
that I think it would have been prosecutable
in court. And they started a year behind. So
that bothers me. And also Congress should have.
with the impeachment should have convicted, right?
So there's a number, there's a political and
a legal problem to this. Of course, of course.
And Mitch McConnell, who is now trying to write
his view in history or whatever, he owns this
and Kevin McCarthy more than Donald Trump owns
his resurrection. Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell.
And so I guess there's three people I'm pretty
angry at. Those are them. Well, it's no surprise
that suddenly people who are out of office grow
a backbone and start to show some courage. But
other than the Civil War, Adam, do you see any
parallels in our history to what the country
is currently going through? You know, I would
say maybe the 30s, the 20s and 30s, because you
came off of a pandemic. You came out of a war,
World War I, and obviously the war on terror
was not near as violent or bloody as World War
I. But you could argue that since that was in
our face every day because of new media, maybe
it had the same psychological impact. The Ku
Klux Klan, for God's sakes, the state over from
mine in Illinois, the Ku Klux Klan had a million
members. They were marching all over Washington,
D .C. It's interesting. I had in my district
in Princeton, Illinois. There's this old theater,
and they were revitalizing it, and they showed
me this ticket they found somewhere, wherever
they were revitalizing it, that was at Admit
One to the Ku Klux Klan rally in Princeton, Illinois.
And so you think of that, you know, look, there
were Madison Square Garden, the Nazi movement.
So it feels like maybe that a little bit. Obviously,
there are not perfect parallels. But where I
get, you know, both hopeful and concerned, the
hopeful side is, Look, they always say history
doesn't repeat, but it rhymes, right? So nothing,
you know, we come out of every difficult period
and win. But I look at that period and say the
thing that really pulled us out of that was a
world war. And I don't see, you know, right or
wrong, I don't see a world war on the horizon.
Are we going to get out of this self -dividing
moment? And I hope that we get to a point where
maybe people are just sick of the division enough.
I mean, I saw earlier, you know. Donald Trump's
post about the murder of Rob Reiner, where he's
like, this guy had TDS, you know, Trump derangement
syndrome, Rob, right? Like, what kind of horrible
human being are you to think of that? And I've
got to imagine that at some point, kind of our
psyche says that's wrong, but I don't know. Well,
you could also cite the way he treated John McCain.
I mean, just. And that was just the beginning
of his career. That's when it rocketed. Incredible.
It is. It is incredible. And you wonder if it
swings too far and will swing back. We can only
hope. So just to go back to your film, like,
have you received much feedback from people either
inside the government, military, politicians,
national security about how the film resonates
with the values of professionalism and service?
Because we still need professionals and serious
people in government. If not in politics. I've
heard nothing but good stuff. Now, I will say,
and it has very good Rotten Tomatoes scores,
so I'll say that objectively. But I'll also say
that nobody's going to call me and say, your
movie sucked, right? The documentary about you
was boring, and I hated it. I would have said
it. Yeah, you would have, because you're a Hollywood
guy, right? No, everybody's been very positive.
And, you know, again, what I think is good about
it, and I just say this, you know, obviously
recognizing I'm the guy in it, is like, I try
to be very real and show people the human toll.
You know, look, we think back, and I'm not comparing
myself to him, but I've had in my mind lately,
particularly with the Vladimir Putin situation.
Winston Churchill. And, you know, Churchill,
you realize like we we read books about him and
he's this amazing hero, right? Guy that drank
and smoked cigars and he was awesome and he knew.
But like a good portion of his life, he was the
dude on the outside. He was called a warmonger.
I've been called a warmonger a lot, you know,
but it was a moment when he came in. But I say
all that to say like. History is not made by
people that do the popular thing. They're made
by the people that feel isolated and alone. And
I'm not, again, in no way am I comparing myself
to him. But what I'm seeing, though, is that
when you have to make a tough decision and stand
alone, I think the vast majority of people get
some version of a chance to do that in their
life. Not necessarily in Congress, but wherever,
whatever their job is. Very few people do it
because it's hard. And that's what I think where
we've fallen short of. of showing people and
i hope that maybe this film does that is like
especially to young people you will have an opportunity
in your life to do the right thing but it's not
going to be the obvious decision because if it
was the obvious decision you'd never stand out
because everybody would do it and so yeah i've
gotten some good pushback good feedback and uh
all my military guys like it although as you
know if you're in a military squadron they give
you crap about everything so i have gotten that
well speaking of vladimir putin and You're being
a military veteran. I'd just be very interested
in what your views are on the current situation
vis -a -vis Russia and its invasion of Ukraine.
Traditionally, the Republican Party has been
very much concerned about the Russian threat,
and that seems to be evaporating like steam.
Yeah, it really does. And, you know, the weird
thing is I still see polls that show 70 % of
Americans or of Republicans, for instance, support
Ukraine over Russia. That's good. I mean, good,
I guess, you know, but it's like I think we're
a Republican that will pretend like, you know,
they're sort of still with Ukraine. We'll say
like, oh, well, we just shouldn't give all this
money to Ukraine. Like, I want Ukraine to win,
but we've got to take care of the boys here at
home. You know, that kind of stuff. And let me
just say where I think the Biden administration
fell short is in messaging. I mean, when I tell
people that. The vast majority of aid to Ukraine
is spent on American products, or simply it's
just a value put to old equipment that was going
to time out anyway. I mean, half of the ATACMs
we sent Ukraine probably would have been destroyed
by now and controlled detonations. Instead, we
gave it to them and put a value on it. But they
didn't do a good job of explaining that. So it
seemed like we're writing a $100 billion check,
then it's going to this black hole of nothingness.
Look, I think I think we cannot forget the fact
that I mean, I got briefed by your agency because
I was still in Congress when the when this thing
kicked off. And and it was three days, three
days. This will be over maybe two weeks. And
then we're going to implement an insurgency thing.
And we'll you know, we'll get weapons in there.
Maybe in 10 years, we'll bleed the Russians dry.
Instead, the Ukrainians have fought amazingly
heroically, incredibly heroically against all
odds. And I look at that and I'm like, the fact
that we would even be doing anything but fully
supporting Ukraine until they made the decision
that it's time to stop the war is beyond me.
Why we would do that. But I just, I'm so proud
of them. I am so unproud of our country. And
as John and I have talked about a number of times
offline, Europe really has to pick up the slack
here and step up and recognize that the future
of their continent is based on this. So yeah,
I would say generally, I find myself very embarrassed
of America's foreign policy at this moment and
very embarrassed of having been a Republican
that used to believe that actually Russia was
bad and that we used to believe that. Because
now I recognize it was all based on, I don't
know, some way to own the libs, I guess. Having
lived in Russia and worked on Russia for years,
those of us have been surprised not just by this
administration or even the Biden administration,
but... subsequent administrations, every time
they seem to come in and they think, if we're
just nicer to Russia, if we just try to bring
them into the fold, you know, it'll be better.
The Russians aren't looking for friends. You
need to punch them in the nose. And it isn't
like a new thing we've learned. This is like
consistent. They've screwed us consistently.
They're at war with us, political war with us,
and they move on. So just to add some other things.
What other national security issues are you paying
attention to? There's Venezuela. There's this
new national security strategy. What are the
things that concern you on the national security
front? Yeah, it's a couple of things. So the
Venezuela thing, look, I personally. And I may
be wrong here, but I don't think Donald Trump's
going to attack Venezuela because honestly, and
this may be a good thing in the long run, he's
kind of a coward. Like, he really is. Even when
he struck Iran, which I thought was the right
thing to do, you know, at the time, given all
the circumstances, he bombed. And then immediately
was like, timeout, timeout, it's over, it's over,
right? Instead of doing what every military person
knows, which is, okay, now take a look at how
much damage you did and make a decision if you
need to strike again or not, okay? Now, regardless,
Venezuela, I don't know. I don't think he's going
to, they may try to take out Maduro or something.
It's not going to be a massive invasion. I am
very bothered by the killing of drug boats in
the Caribbean. Because to me, look, I flew, you
know, for the National Guard. So overseas, I
did special ops stuff. So, you know, we did,
we were signals intelligence in the plane. State
side, we do counter drug. We also did border.
And we did interdiction on the seas. You know,
we weren't great at interdiction on the seas
because we just had the camera. We didn't have
the signals. But we did some of that. And what
was so effective on the seas was you find something,
you know, the guys would shoot the engine out
of it. And then you interdict it and you get
intelligence. I worked with a lot of your targets
in Iraq. And I just put this out the other day.
I was thinking of it. It's like 8 out of 10 of
the targets that I would go after as part of
Task Force 16 or 17, 8 out of 10 were the goal
was to capture them. Right now, if they were
too dangerous, they'd be a kill. Or if they were
they were unwilling to go, they'd be a kill.
But the goal was to capture because you capture
you get their cell phone. You see everybody.
They've called a bunch. Right. And you exploit
that information. Same thing with drugs. If we're
serious about this. And by the way, Venezuela
is not the narco state that we should be concerned
about. Right. It's other states. But. you would
capture them. And the other thing is, I'm going
too long, but this damages our moral authority.
This isn't about the two guys hanging off the
boat, whether they were good guys or bad guys,
right? I don't know. Let's assume they were the
worst two guys to ever live in human history,
okay? But they were in a mode where they were
trying to survive. Do not tell me they were trying
to flip a boat. I mean, what, were they in a
canoe? If they were in a canoe, how are there
11 people in a canoe? And how can a Hellfire
missile, how would you need three more Hellfire
missiles, okay? Don't tell me they're trying
to flip it. But regardless of whether they were
good or bad, we have a law of armed conflict
that dictates that they are not legitimate targets
at that moment. We have maritime law. We have
rescued pirates from the sea, for God's sakes.
We rescued Nazis from the sea. We executed Nazis
that didn't rescue Americans from the sea. This
is not about these two drug guys. This is about
our soul. This is about America's soul, the damage
we're doing to ourselves. And the people pulling
the trigger, I mean, probably the people that
pulled the trigger is some 25 -year -old kid
that is gung -ho about serving his country that
in 20 years is going to be sitting around going
through his head and at 100 % PTSD with the VA
because he realizes he pulled the trigger on
two people that were struggling in the water
to survive. And for our own people, we have our
own soldiers that, you know, if we say it's okay
to kill people who are surrendering. Yes! What
message are you sending? What about the young
kids, by the way? The 18 -year -olds right now
that are thinking about joining the military
that have seen no leader, really, to both parties'
shame, no leader stand up and really inspire
people about America and how we are a country
that strives for goodness and better. And we're
not just competing for power in the world with
Russia and China. Like, yes, we have to do it
if it's in America's interest, but we bring with
us some moral focus. I'll say all that to say,
lastly, my big concern is China. And it's not
so much that China's going to invade Taiwan.
I do have worry about that. But it's that this
administration is selling everything to China
right now, including the advanced chips, because
China knows smartly that if they can give Donald
Trump and his family money, he'll give them anything
he wants. That's a long answer. I'm sorry. Yeah,
that reminds me of Lenin's famous quote that
the capitalists will sell us the rope with which
we hang them. Totally, totally, totally. And
that's what you see. And that's what you see.
And Russia, I mean, I guess I skipped over Russia
generally, I assumed with Ukraine, but I will
say Russia is an existential threat as well.
They're not a superpower. They are a great power.
But the question is, you know, whatever this
war ends in. Does Vladimir Putin make the decision
to rearm and attack? Look, if I'm him and I truly
believe the United States won't defend Europe,
I may see how far I can get. One of our colleagues
characterized Russia as Upper Volta with missiles.
Yeah, perfect. That's perfect. I don't think
Upper Volta still exists, does it? No, I don't
think so either. I'm glad I'm not Russian. I
know that much. Let me get you out of here with
this. And I feel bad. I really appreciate you
coming on, even though you have a bit of a cold.
No, it's great. I enjoyed it. So just one quick,
if you were advising someone who is running,
a new member of Congress or a new national security
official who's coming in, either now or in the
next few years, what would you advise them based
on your experience to prepare for the pressure
to prioritize the country over party? Any practical
things? Yeah, I think the first thing is like.
in assuming my job is not to convince you to
do it, you've already decided, it is that you
will, whether it's in the agency, whether it's
in Congress, whether it's in DOD, whatever, you
will likely in your life have to face a, you
will face a moral dilemma. And you don't know
what that's going to look like, right? I never
would have, I never would have imagined January
6th, right? It was so unthinkable. But I also
knew that I would reach a moral dilemma. And
I think there is some real importance, just like,
you know, a police officer sitting watching TV,
you know, dry firing his gun, pulling it right
to to practice that muscle memory. And then you
see a cop like having a police shooting and you
see in a quarter of a second they have their
gun out. Right. And they save themselves. But
that is muscle memory. It is the same thing in
courage, which is you don't know what that decision
is, but there will come a day when you have to
make a decision that will be. Everything in you
will be screaming against you making that decision
because your body, your biology wants to defend
itself. And standing alone is the outside of
a tribe, by the way, which is like our most basic
instinct. That is a survival instinct. But the
more you in your head just say, like, if there's
a point in which I have to make. you know, a
defining decision, I will do it. Now, that doesn't
mean run around and look for ways to be a contrarian,
right? You know, it's like the military, you
don't have to look around and find everything
you disagree with. But if there's that moment,
be willing to make it. And that's what I would
say is like that dry fire in your mind about,
you know, if there's that point. Well, Adam,
thank you so much for spending time with us.
And if there's anything, are there any anything
you're plugging now shows other than your Amazon
show or books or anything that we can aim people
towards? I've actually got a children's book
coming out. That'll be out, though, in the spring.
I'll tell you what it's called, although it's
not been. It's called That's What Heroes Do.
It's really good. And I say that because it's
my book. So and then I know I'm on Substack.
So, you know, there. And other than that, John,
I think I get to see you in a month or two in
the cold area. So we'll catch you. We'll get
some warm drinks in us. That's right. That's
right. I'd like to add my thanks, Adam. I mean,
really, you've got the moral courage that I so
greatly respect. And I have at least some optimism
that hopefully the Republican Party will regain
its soul at some point. Me too. And can I just
say, and I appreciate you saying that about the
courage, but, and I mean this, this isn't like
self -deprecating, like falsely. It's not really
courage. It's just, and I've said this before,
but like I was surrounded by cowards because
you all took an oath. You understand when that
defining thing comes up, what your oath requires.
They all knew it, but they were all scared. All
I did was what my oath said. That's it. We had
a senior CIA officer who ran the clandestine
service who said, why is it that I have officers
who will risk their lives, but not their careers?
Amen. So true. Best thing to say. Best thing.
So true. So true. Well, I think you did more
than that, but I also do think that all of us
have to do more than we're doing. So again, thank
you very much. And let me just close out by saying
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