WEBVTT 00:00:03.299 --> 00:00:05.700 The Steady State Sentinel is produced by the 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:07.679 Steady State, a community of former national 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.960 security professionals who spent their careers 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.779 safeguarding the United States at home and abroad. 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.199 Today, we continue that mission by staying true 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.640 to our oaths to defend the Constitution, uphold 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:26.500 our democracy and protect our nation's security. 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.260 Join our expert hosts as they interview field 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:33.380 -tested guests whose unique experiences shed 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:36.719 light on the crises and challenges facing our 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:52.159 nation. All right, you're listening to the Steady 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:54.770 State Sentinel. I'm John Seifer, along with my 00:00:54.770 --> 00:00:57.570 former CIA colleague, Jim Lawler, both former 00:00:57.570 --> 00:01:00.729 officers in CIA's clandestine service. Today's 00:01:00.729 --> 00:01:02.289 guest is someone who's been at the center of 00:01:02.289 --> 00:01:03.929 the biggest political storms of the last few 00:01:03.929 --> 00:01:06.390 years and decided to stand his ground anyway. 00:01:07.129 --> 00:01:09.250 Adam Kinzinger is a former U .S. congressman 00:01:09.250 --> 00:01:11.909 from Illinois, a longtime member of the Air National 00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:13.930 Guard, and one of the most prominent Republican 00:01:13.930 --> 00:01:16.730 critics of Donald Trump. He served on the House 00:01:16.730 --> 00:01:19.709 Elect Committee investigating the January 6th 00:01:19.709 --> 00:01:22.230 attack on the Capitol. a decision to put him 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:24.489 at odds with much of his own party and ultimately 00:01:24.489 --> 00:01:27.310 cost him his seat in Congress. And he's the subject 00:01:27.310 --> 00:01:29.670 of a recent Amazon documentary called The Last 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:33.030 Republican. Since leaving office, Adams has become 00:01:33.030 --> 00:01:35.810 a leading voice on courage in politics, the future 00:01:35.810 --> 00:01:37.769 of American democracy, and what it means to put 00:01:37.769 --> 00:01:40.629 country over party. He's also been unusually 00:01:40.629 --> 00:01:42.670 honest about the personal cost of all that, the 00:01:42.670 --> 00:01:45.290 threats, the isolation, and the backlash, even 00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:47.109 from people he once considered friends and allies. 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:49.879 So whether you agree with his politics or not, 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.340 Adam's story raises big questions about integrity, 00:01:52.579 --> 00:01:54.700 fear, and what we're willing to risk for what 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:56.719 we believe. So with that, let's just jump in. 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:58.640 Adam Kinzinger, welcome to the podcast. Hey, 00:01:58.659 --> 00:02:00.719 listen, but if you don't agree with my policies, 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:02.599 you're wrong. You should have added that. No, 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:04.840 it's good to be with you guys. Look, and I want 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:06.700 to apologize. I'm not sure if you guys use the 00:02:06.700 --> 00:02:08.740 video or just audio, but regardless, I'm going 00:02:08.740 --> 00:02:12.199 to sound okay. I will sound to everybody sick 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:14.699 because I am. So I want to just... On the front 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:16.680 end, apologize, but we'll be good. We're going 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:18.080 to make it through this. So thanks for having 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:19.699 me. Well, I know you want to sound muscular and 00:02:19.699 --> 00:02:22.400 masculine. So yeah, maybe we can fix that. But 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.020 just to start real quick, obviously you served 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:27.520 in the Air Force and in Congress. And I'm really 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:29.580 interested in how your sense of duty developed. 00:02:29.900 --> 00:02:32.400 Like basically, I'm asking, how does one cultivate 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.719 the quote unquote character muscle that's needed 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:37.939 to say country first when the party says otherwise? 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.419 Is there anything from your experience building 00:02:40.419 --> 00:02:42.520 blocks? It's a great question, and it's probably 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.580 something that, you know, most of your folks 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:46.300 that worked with you can share and understand, 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:48.699 right? It's like, it's a couple things. Like, 00:02:48.699 --> 00:02:52.080 I've never understood people that, you know, 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.060 do a job, whether it's military, whether it's 00:02:55.060 --> 00:02:57.659 intelligence, whether it's politics, you know, 00:02:57.659 --> 00:03:00.840 that is so impactful on so many people's lives, 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:02.819 and they don't care about what their role in 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:04.699 history is or the bigger cause. This just becomes 00:03:04.699 --> 00:03:08.150 like, it's about my career or whatever. So for 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:10.530 me, it was a combination a little bit of how 00:03:10.530 --> 00:03:12.889 I was raised. You know, obviously, you got to 00:03:12.889 --> 00:03:15.250 have parents that instill something like that 00:03:15.250 --> 00:03:19.110 in you. But really, so I had come back from Iraq 00:03:19.110 --> 00:03:23.270 in 2010, I guess 2009, and basically announced 00:03:23.270 --> 00:03:25.770 I was running for Congress right then. And I 00:03:25.770 --> 00:03:28.830 remember thinking, you know, look, if... I am 00:03:28.830 --> 00:03:32.050 going to run for a job that is going to, you 00:03:32.050 --> 00:03:34.009 know, I'm going to pass budgets. I'm going to 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:36.430 probably vote for people to go to war. You know, 00:03:36.430 --> 00:03:38.189 these different things. Like, if I'm going to 00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:40.990 put people's lives on the line, I have to be 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:44.370 willing to give my career for the country, right? 00:03:44.469 --> 00:03:49.710 Like, okay, a 19 -year -old who goes and dies 00:03:49.710 --> 00:03:52.330 on behalf of the United States of America, as 00:03:52.330 --> 00:03:54.629 terrible as it is, we need people willing to 00:03:54.629 --> 00:03:58.139 do that. And if I'm going to ask people to do 00:03:58.139 --> 00:04:00.900 that, but not be willing to give up $174 ,000 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:02.960 a year job, I don't have a right to it. And so 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.439 the interesting thing is like throughout my whole 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:07.639 time running, and then even when I was elected, 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:11.280 I would talk about that. And then that moment 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:12.639 happened. I thought it would be like, you know, 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:14.560 voting to fix social security or something that 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.199 would kill me. I didn't think it would be, you 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.660 know, January 6th, but that's what happened. 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:21.120 And I really honestly, when... You know, the 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.100 president claimed that night of the election, 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:25.199 he's like, they're stealing the election, the 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.439 whole intervening time. I just, I saw no other 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:30.720 option. I didn't see any other possibility but 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:32.720 to just do what I ended up doing. And frankly, 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.959 99 % of my colleagues should have said the same 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.839 thing. Adam, I've got a question. Do you think 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:39.879 there's still room in the Republican Party for 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.579 moderates or centrists? Prior to the 2016 election, 00:04:43.899 --> 00:04:46.779 I was a moderate Republican. And now, like a 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.139 reformed smoker who hates smoking, I've become 00:04:49.139 --> 00:04:51.860 a relatively strident anti -Trump activist. I 00:04:51.860 --> 00:04:54.279 feel like the Republican Party personally has 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:56.699 lost its soul and betrayed me. But I'd love to 00:04:56.699 --> 00:04:59.680 hear your views on this. Look, I fully agree 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:02.259 with you. I don't think there is room. I think, 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:04.519 in fact, if you're a conservative, so if you're 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.740 listening and you consider yourself a conservative, 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:09.839 like an actual conservative governing philosophy, 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:12.560 you shouldn't be a Republican because there's 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:14.660 nothing conservative about the Republican Party. 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:18.660 It's illiberal, right? Conservatism used to believe 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:21.279 in, you know, a small government, but an important 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:23.160 role for government, you know, strong national 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.819 defense. This guy is the opposite of that, and 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:29.790 he's convinced. an entire party that basically 00:05:29.790 --> 00:05:32.970 their biggest allegiance is not to the Constitution. 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:36.870 It's to him. And so, no, Jim, I don't think that 00:05:36.870 --> 00:05:39.829 there's any space for anybody like you or I in 00:05:39.829 --> 00:05:42.170 the party right now. And I think this goes to 00:05:42.170 --> 00:05:44.129 my Democratic friends, and it's kind of the message 00:05:44.129 --> 00:05:45.689 I'm out there preaching, which is like, look, 00:05:45.829 --> 00:05:48.209 I would love in a perfect world to be able to 00:05:48.209 --> 00:05:50.689 have like a centrist third party. It's not going 00:05:50.689 --> 00:05:53.370 to happen. So where does that leave people that 00:05:53.370 --> 00:05:55.529 feel politically homeless, which now is a significant 00:05:55.529 --> 00:05:58.500 amount of the country? It's the Democratic Party. 00:05:58.699 --> 00:06:01.839 And so the Democrats have got to be willing to 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:04.639 have disagreements in the tent. But at least 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:06.459 you're in power, because when you're not in power, 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:08.379 you lose everything. When you're in power, you 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:11.839 can have those battles. Now, I hope in 10 years, 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.459 when Donald Trump is out and this kind of cancer 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:17.220 goes through the GOP, that there will be a space 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:20.439 again. But I'm not going to sit and hold my breath 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.639 till that happens. They have, in my mind, the 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:24.920 Republican Party has lost their right to govern. 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:28.399 Your documentary, which I watched recently and 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.220 thought was excellent, The Last Republican. Thank 00:06:30.220 --> 00:06:31.879 you. It offers a lot of the behind the scenes 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.120 view of your final year in Congress and your 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.259 role with the January 6th committee and the personal 00:06:37.259 --> 00:06:39.500 cost of your taking a different path than a lot 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:41.339 of your Republican colleagues. So what motivated 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:43.180 you to open your life and do that documentary, 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.639 that kind of scrutiny? That's a great question 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:47.660 because I didn't want to do it. But it's funny 00:06:47.660 --> 00:06:49.000 because I actually didn't even want to be on 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.259 the committee. So, you know, I voted to impeach 00:06:52.259 --> 00:06:54.220 Trump and then I voted to form the committee. 00:06:54.889 --> 00:06:56.509 There were 10 of us that voted to impeach. And 00:06:56.509 --> 00:06:58.129 then just Liz and I were the ones that voted 00:06:58.129 --> 00:06:59.769 for the committee, which was disappointing. But, 00:06:59.850 --> 00:07:02.730 you know, we did. And, you know, they ended up 00:07:02.730 --> 00:07:04.509 putting Liz on the committee. And I remember 00:07:04.509 --> 00:07:07.709 thinking, good, like, because, you know, Pelosi 00:07:07.709 --> 00:07:09.430 is going to put a Republican on there. Thank 00:07:09.430 --> 00:07:12.310 God it's Liz. Now I can live my life. And and, 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:15.629 you know, I end up getting put on it, obviously. 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:19.000 And so. And we had all these different documentaries 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.680 that would come and kind of talk to me, documentarians 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:23.279 that would come and talk to me and be like, hey, 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.740 we want to follow you. We want to, you know, 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:27.620 we want to dial, we want to figure out what's 00:07:27.620 --> 00:07:29.759 going on here. But a lot of it was focused on, 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:33.139 we're interested in the horse race. Can a guy 00:07:33.139 --> 00:07:35.800 who's anti -Trump win in a primary against Trump? 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:37.339 You know, and it was all that kind of stuff. 00:07:37.420 --> 00:07:39.399 And I knew at the time that I probably wasn't 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:41.259 going to run again. I mean, I had been in Congress 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:43.220 12 years, which I think is long enough anyway. 00:07:44.670 --> 00:07:47.610 I finally talked to Steve Pink, who was the director 00:07:47.610 --> 00:07:50.290 of Hot Tub Time Machine, one of my favorite movies. 00:07:50.329 --> 00:07:52.829 He also did Gross Point Blank, High Fidelity, 00:07:53.009 --> 00:07:55.189 like a lot of ones you've heard of. And then 00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:58.610 Kevin Morris was the financier. They basically 00:07:58.610 --> 00:08:00.870 talked to me, and I knew Kevin from a prior life. 00:08:01.009 --> 00:08:02.750 And he's like, look, we're actually interested 00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:05.990 in the human element, not the horse race. And 00:08:05.990 --> 00:08:08.470 so I talked with my wife, and we finally agreed 00:08:08.470 --> 00:08:10.670 to do it because we're like, two things. Number 00:08:10.670 --> 00:08:13.259 one. I think it's important for people to see 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:16.000 the human toll, the human impact that I knew 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:17.579 was coming. I mean, obviously, I hadn't even 00:08:17.579 --> 00:08:20.000 lived it yet. But second is, you know, we're 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.279 in the middle of having a child. And it's like, 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.220 how are we ever going to explain this time to 00:08:24.220 --> 00:08:27.399 him? And we figured this is the best way to do 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.939 it. And so he's four now, and he's old enough 00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:33.100 and cognizant. Someday he'll watch this movie 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:34.960 and kind of get an idea of what he went through 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.940 as a baby. And so that's kind of what I think, 00:08:37.940 --> 00:08:40.360 you know, what motivated us to do it. It was 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.259 a tough decision. And Steve's a big liberal, 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:44.899 right? So how is that working with him? Oh, yeah, 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.360 he is. So it's funny because the movie ends up 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:51.120 being basically. It tells the story of January 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.220 6th a little bit. It's the human element. And 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:55.480 then it's also this like tug and pull between 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.259 him and I, like I'm kind of the conservative, 00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:00.100 he's the liberal. And we end up, you know, we're 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:01.980 friends, right? And so that's kind of an important 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:04.720 lesson. But yeah, he actually, they filmed this 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:07.279 and they were editing it and they realized that 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.200 we had this like banter back and forth between 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.409 us. And they're like, this is a great. Perfect 00:09:12.409 --> 00:09:14.690 way to kind of lay out the film. And so it's 00:09:14.690 --> 00:09:17.210 funny. I actually would say he learned a ton 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:19.309 through doing this because he's like, I learned 00:09:19.309 --> 00:09:21.710 that a conservative or at least a centrist, I 00:09:21.710 --> 00:09:23.929 can get along with them. So I've changed his 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:26.370 life for the better, I'm proud to say. Adam, 00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:30.129 I'm interested in whether you can identify any 00:09:30.129 --> 00:09:32.970 current Republican political candidates or office 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:36.330 holders who share your moral courage and values, 00:09:36.409 --> 00:09:38.570 your conservative values. I mean, do you see 00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:42.610 any on the horizon or in place now? No. No, if 00:09:42.610 --> 00:09:47.269 you'd ask me, you know, I'd say between, you 00:09:47.269 --> 00:09:52.190 know, 17 and maybe 21 or 22, I probably could 00:09:52.190 --> 00:09:53.970 have found a few Republicans that are standing 00:09:53.970 --> 00:09:56.669 tall, right? You think of like Brad Raffensperger. 00:09:56.789 --> 00:09:59.250 I guess I'll say Brad Raffensperger is actually 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:01.870 an example. You know, the Secretary of State 00:10:01.870 --> 00:10:04.450 of Georgia stood up against Trump, still got 00:10:04.450 --> 00:10:07.740 reelected, running for governor now. He's actually 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.120 running against another friend of mine who I'm 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.679 very supportive of, Jeff Duncan, who was the 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:14.899 lieutenant governor Republican now running as 00:10:14.899 --> 00:10:17.539 a Democrat for the same reason we discussed. 00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:19.620 He just recognized there's no home in the GOP. 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:22.960 But no, I wish I could say here's a huge litany 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:25.279 of people that represent the kind of values we 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.259 need, but they've all been drummed out. I mean, 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:30.500 they've either decided not to run again. They've 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:33.019 lost their primary. You know, Donald Trump has 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:36.720 been in our life for 10 years, 10 years. And 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.480 you cannot survive, you know, this cult that 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:43.679 demands 100 % loyalty for 10 years with your 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.120 morals intact. And you guys know this as intel 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.500 people, which is like, you understand better 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.320 than I do, or maybe as good as politicians do, 00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:53.559 because we have an innate understanding of people. 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:56.860 You understand that people can convince themselves 00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:59.710 that anything they do is right. right i mean 00:10:59.710 --> 00:11:02.669 why is it in 1936 you wouldn't have recruited 00:11:02.669 --> 00:11:05.690 anybody in nazi germany to guard a tower at auschwitz 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:08.090 but by the 40s you could do it because you make 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:10.529 little and i'm again i'm not comparing them to 00:11:10.529 --> 00:11:13.730 nazis here but it's like you make little like 00:11:13.730 --> 00:11:17.149 compromises in your soul. And you, the human 00:11:17.149 --> 00:11:18.990 condition, can convince yourself that whatever 00:11:18.990 --> 00:11:21.309 you're doing is right. I mean, Al Qaeda believes 00:11:21.309 --> 00:11:22.889 they're the holy warriors, right? They believe 00:11:22.889 --> 00:11:25.549 what they're doing is right. And so, yeah, after 00:11:25.549 --> 00:11:29.190 10 years, these folks have convinced themselves, 00:11:29.289 --> 00:11:33.129 even against all evidence, that, yeah, Donald 00:11:33.129 --> 00:11:37.250 Trump may be a little uncouth, but he's a good 00:11:37.250 --> 00:11:40.330 dude. And he's fighting the evil people in Hollywood 00:11:40.330 --> 00:11:42.330 or whatever, you know, and that's where we're 00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:45.000 at. It's sort of like an organized crime boss, 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.279 too, that makes you complicit, makes you say 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.580 something that's illegal or wrong, and then you're 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:53.700 bought and they own you, right? Yep, 100%. I 00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:55.100 have a question. So you were on the committee 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:57.200 and you uncovered volumes of documents, interviews, 00:11:57.379 --> 00:11:59.059 debates. I thought it was really, obviously, 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.960 well done. So here's my question. What juicy 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:04.100 stuff did you leave out? What other stuff do 00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:07.259 you have on Trump and January 6th that you didn't 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:09.669 bring up in the committee? I wish there was a 00:12:09.669 --> 00:12:11.889 bunch of cool stuff. A lot of it is in the report, 00:12:12.049 --> 00:12:14.149 so it may not have come up in the hearings. You 00:12:14.149 --> 00:12:15.750 know, one of the things that I think is interesting 00:12:15.750 --> 00:12:19.710 is like the financing side of this. So we didn't 00:12:19.710 --> 00:12:22.230 unfortunately get enough attention to it because 00:12:22.230 --> 00:12:24.309 we kind of had to limit what we could do. But 00:12:24.309 --> 00:12:27.960 one of the things you see is how. You guys, again, 00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:31.360 understanding radicalization, how the fundraising 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.480 emails between the night of the election and 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.960 January 6th radicalized about 30 percent of the 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:42.879 GOP. So you imagine it like every day if you're 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.779 on the donor list where you get the emails, you 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.899 get 10 emails every day that say something along 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:51.960 the lines of they're stealing the election. Nancy 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.100 Pelosi is this. So and so is that. And eventually 00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:57.559 that radicalized so many people. So that was 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:59.860 like stuff that I wish we'd have been able to 00:12:59.860 --> 00:13:02.940 talk more about is just like how the fundraising 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:06.639 stuff, how the money situation is so corrosive 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.639 and radicalizing. But I also think this, which 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:15.200 is we did a lot of work. We uncovered a lot of 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.879 stuff. But quite honestly, where we ended could 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:24.240 have been where the DOJ was. when we started. 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.600 Instead, what we saw, and I have a lot of bitterness 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.340 about this, what we saw is we did our first hearing 00:13:31.340 --> 00:13:34.679 a year after, that first in the series. So a 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:36.799 year after the committee was formed, we have 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:41.019 our first major hearing. And only then did the 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:44.259 GOJ go, oh my goodness, there's a lot of information 00:13:44.259 --> 00:13:47.480 here. We better go after Donald Trump. And then 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.440 they appointed Jack Smith. To his credit, he 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:51.320 did the best he could, but he was up against 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:54.320 the clock. So I have a lot of anger against Merrick 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.820 Garland because he should have, on the day he 00:13:56.820 --> 00:14:00.460 became attorney general, should have put a special 00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:03.019 counsel in charge. And instead he waited for 00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.759 us, who, by the way, we didn't have near the 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.679 tools that DOJ has to get confessions or to get 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.940 testimony. And yet we were able to uncover enough 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:13.600 that I think it would have been prosecutable 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.559 in court. And they started a year behind. So 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.419 that bothers me. And also Congress should have. 00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:21.419 with the impeachment should have convicted, right? 00:14:21.500 --> 00:14:24.019 So there's a number, there's a political and 00:14:24.019 --> 00:14:26.940 a legal problem to this. Of course, of course. 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:29.919 And Mitch McConnell, who is now trying to write 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.919 his view in history or whatever, he owns this 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.659 and Kevin McCarthy more than Donald Trump owns 00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:39.639 his resurrection. Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.059 And so I guess there's three people I'm pretty 00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:45.000 angry at. Those are them. Well, it's no surprise 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.440 that suddenly people who are out of office grow 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.259 a backbone and start to show some courage. But 00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:54.399 other than the Civil War, Adam, do you see any 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.639 parallels in our history to what the country 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.419 is currently going through? You know, I would 00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:07.159 say maybe the 30s, the 20s and 30s, because you 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.580 came off of a pandemic. You came out of a war, 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.700 World War I, and obviously the war on terror 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:15.460 was not near as violent or bloody as World War 00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:18.299 I. But you could argue that since that was in 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:21.220 our face every day because of new media, maybe 00:15:21.220 --> 00:15:25.299 it had the same psychological impact. The Ku 00:15:25.299 --> 00:15:28.179 Klux Klan, for God's sakes, the state over from 00:15:28.179 --> 00:15:31.220 mine in Illinois, the Ku Klux Klan had a million 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:33.299 members. They were marching all over Washington, 00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:36.259 D .C. It's interesting. I had in my district 00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:38.980 in Princeton, Illinois. There's this old theater, 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:42.080 and they were revitalizing it, and they showed 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.379 me this ticket they found somewhere, wherever 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:47.659 they were revitalizing it, that was at Admit 00:15:47.659 --> 00:15:49.960 One to the Ku Klux Klan rally in Princeton, Illinois. 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.919 And so you think of that, you know, look, there 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.320 were Madison Square Garden, the Nazi movement. 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.879 So it feels like maybe that a little bit. Obviously, 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:03.120 there are not perfect parallels. But where I 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.259 get, you know, both hopeful and concerned, the 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:10.039 hopeful side is, Look, they always say history 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.460 doesn't repeat, but it rhymes, right? So nothing, 00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:14.879 you know, we come out of every difficult period 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.519 and win. But I look at that period and say the 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:19.980 thing that really pulled us out of that was a 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:23.179 world war. And I don't see, you know, right or 00:16:23.179 --> 00:16:24.779 wrong, I don't see a world war on the horizon. 00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:26.539 Are we going to get out of this self -dividing 00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:28.960 moment? And I hope that we get to a point where 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.820 maybe people are just sick of the division enough. 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.409 I mean, I saw earlier, you know. Donald Trump's 00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:38.230 post about the murder of Rob Reiner, where he's 00:16:38.230 --> 00:16:41.350 like, this guy had TDS, you know, Trump derangement 00:16:41.350 --> 00:16:43.809 syndrome, Rob, right? Like, what kind of horrible 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:46.149 human being are you to think of that? And I've 00:16:46.149 --> 00:16:48.789 got to imagine that at some point, kind of our 00:16:48.789 --> 00:16:51.299 psyche says that's wrong, but I don't know. Well, 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.580 you could also cite the way he treated John McCain. 00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:56.919 I mean, just. And that was just the beginning 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.399 of his career. That's when it rocketed. Incredible. 00:16:59.899 --> 00:17:03.259 It is. It is incredible. And you wonder if it 00:17:03.259 --> 00:17:05.900 swings too far and will swing back. We can only 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:08.059 hope. So just to go back to your film, like, 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.000 have you received much feedback from people either 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.299 inside the government, military, politicians, 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.279 national security about how the film resonates 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.359 with the values of professionalism and service? 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.980 Because we still need professionals and serious 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:22.240 people in government. If not in politics. I've 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.240 heard nothing but good stuff. Now, I will say, 00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:26.160 and it has very good Rotten Tomatoes scores, 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.079 so I'll say that objectively. But I'll also say 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.259 that nobody's going to call me and say, your 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:36.000 movie sucked, right? The documentary about you 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.440 was boring, and I hated it. I would have said 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.180 it. Yeah, you would have, because you're a Hollywood 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:44.079 guy, right? No, everybody's been very positive. 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:47.240 And, you know, again, what I think is good about 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.140 it, and I just say this, you know, obviously 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:52.240 recognizing I'm the guy in it, is like, I try 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.440 to be very real and show people the human toll. 00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:57.759 You know, look, we think back, and I'm not comparing 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.819 myself to him, but I've had in my mind lately, 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:02.759 particularly with the Vladimir Putin situation. 00:18:03.989 --> 00:18:06.589 Winston Churchill. And, you know, Churchill, 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:09.549 you realize like we we read books about him and 00:18:09.549 --> 00:18:12.109 he's this amazing hero, right? Guy that drank 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:14.369 and smoked cigars and he was awesome and he knew. 00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:17.869 But like a good portion of his life, he was the 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:21.029 dude on the outside. He was called a warmonger. 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:23.890 I've been called a warmonger a lot, you know, 00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:26.509 but it was a moment when he came in. But I say 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:29.240 all that to say like. History is not made by 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.240 people that do the popular thing. They're made 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.039 by the people that feel isolated and alone. And 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.579 I'm not, again, in no way am I comparing myself 00:18:36.579 --> 00:18:39.440 to him. But what I'm seeing, though, is that 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:42.259 when you have to make a tough decision and stand 00:18:42.259 --> 00:18:44.819 alone, I think the vast majority of people get 00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:46.779 some version of a chance to do that in their 00:18:46.779 --> 00:18:49.000 life. Not necessarily in Congress, but wherever, 00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:51.579 whatever their job is. Very few people do it 00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:54.000 because it's hard. And that's what I think where 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.619 we've fallen short of. of showing people and 00:18:56.619 --> 00:18:58.859 i hope that maybe this film does that is like 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:02.359 especially to young people you will have an opportunity 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.480 in your life to do the right thing but it's not 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.599 going to be the obvious decision because if it 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.880 was the obvious decision you'd never stand out 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.740 because everybody would do it and so yeah i've 00:19:12.740 --> 00:19:14.960 gotten some good pushback good feedback and uh 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.619 all my military guys like it although as you 00:19:17.619 --> 00:19:19.799 know if you're in a military squadron they give 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.059 you crap about everything so i have gotten that 00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:26.259 well speaking of vladimir putin and You're being 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.200 a military veteran. I'd just be very interested 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.720 in what your views are on the current situation 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:34.480 vis -a -vis Russia and its invasion of Ukraine. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.099 Traditionally, the Republican Party has been 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:39.319 very much concerned about the Russian threat, 00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:41.619 and that seems to be evaporating like steam. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.819 Yeah, it really does. And, you know, the weird 00:19:45.819 --> 00:19:48.819 thing is I still see polls that show 70 % of 00:19:48.819 --> 00:19:51.420 Americans or of Republicans, for instance, support 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:55.339 Ukraine over Russia. That's good. I mean, good, 00:19:55.579 --> 00:19:59.519 I guess, you know, but it's like I think we're 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.900 a Republican that will pretend like, you know, 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:05.180 they're sort of still with Ukraine. We'll say 00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:06.720 like, oh, well, we just shouldn't give all this 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.420 money to Ukraine. Like, I want Ukraine to win, 00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:11.539 but we've got to take care of the boys here at 00:20:11.539 --> 00:20:13.880 home. You know, that kind of stuff. And let me 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:15.500 just say where I think the Biden administration 00:20:15.500 --> 00:20:19.180 fell short is in messaging. I mean, when I tell 00:20:19.180 --> 00:20:23.369 people that. The vast majority of aid to Ukraine 00:20:23.369 --> 00:20:27.549 is spent on American products, or simply it's 00:20:27.549 --> 00:20:31.250 just a value put to old equipment that was going 00:20:31.250 --> 00:20:33.970 to time out anyway. I mean, half of the ATACMs 00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:35.869 we sent Ukraine probably would have been destroyed 00:20:35.869 --> 00:20:39.309 by now and controlled detonations. Instead, we 00:20:39.309 --> 00:20:42.049 gave it to them and put a value on it. But they 00:20:42.049 --> 00:20:43.650 didn't do a good job of explaining that. So it 00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:45.930 seemed like we're writing a $100 billion check, 00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:48.650 then it's going to this black hole of nothingness. 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:53.099 Look, I think I think we cannot forget the fact 00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:56.200 that I mean, I got briefed by your agency because 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.220 I was still in Congress when the when this thing 00:20:58.220 --> 00:21:00.960 kicked off. And and it was three days, three 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.019 days. This will be over maybe two weeks. And 00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:04.920 then we're going to implement an insurgency thing. 00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:06.660 And we'll you know, we'll get weapons in there. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.079 Maybe in 10 years, we'll bleed the Russians dry. 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:12.099 Instead, the Ukrainians have fought amazingly 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:15.740 heroically, incredibly heroically against all 00:21:15.740 --> 00:21:19.220 odds. And I look at that and I'm like, the fact 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:22.579 that we would even be doing anything but fully 00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:25.819 supporting Ukraine until they made the decision 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:28.480 that it's time to stop the war is beyond me. 00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.680 Why we would do that. But I just, I'm so proud 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.059 of them. I am so unproud of our country. And 00:21:35.059 --> 00:21:37.099 as John and I have talked about a number of times 00:21:37.099 --> 00:21:40.180 offline, Europe really has to pick up the slack 00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:42.680 here and step up and recognize that the future 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.779 of their continent is based on this. So yeah, 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.099 I would say generally, I find myself very embarrassed 00:21:49.099 --> 00:21:52.039 of America's foreign policy at this moment and 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.160 very embarrassed of having been a Republican 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:58.039 that used to believe that actually Russia was 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.960 bad and that we used to believe that. Because 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.460 now I recognize it was all based on, I don't 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:08.559 know, some way to own the libs, I guess. Having 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.720 lived in Russia and worked on Russia for years, 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.559 those of us have been surprised not just by this 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.000 administration or even the Biden administration, 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.650 but... subsequent administrations, every time 00:22:17.650 --> 00:22:19.410 they seem to come in and they think, if we're 00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:21.230 just nicer to Russia, if we just try to bring 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:23.769 them into the fold, you know, it'll be better. 00:22:23.930 --> 00:22:25.250 The Russians aren't looking for friends. You 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:28.250 need to punch them in the nose. And it isn't 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:29.910 like a new thing we've learned. This is like 00:22:29.910 --> 00:22:32.369 consistent. They've screwed us consistently. 00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:34.589 They're at war with us, political war with us, 00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:37.289 and they move on. So just to add some other things. 00:22:38.379 --> 00:22:40.519 What other national security issues are you paying 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.079 attention to? There's Venezuela. There's this 00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.299 new national security strategy. What are the 00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:47.099 things that concern you on the national security 00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:49.539 front? Yeah, it's a couple of things. So the 00:22:49.539 --> 00:22:52.869 Venezuela thing, look, I personally. And I may 00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:55.509 be wrong here, but I don't think Donald Trump's 00:22:55.509 --> 00:22:57.829 going to attack Venezuela because honestly, and 00:22:57.829 --> 00:22:59.509 this may be a good thing in the long run, he's 00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:02.809 kind of a coward. Like, he really is. Even when 00:23:02.809 --> 00:23:05.029 he struck Iran, which I thought was the right 00:23:05.029 --> 00:23:07.490 thing to do, you know, at the time, given all 00:23:07.490 --> 00:23:11.019 the circumstances, he bombed. And then immediately 00:23:11.019 --> 00:23:13.500 was like, timeout, timeout, it's over, it's over, 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.380 right? Instead of doing what every military person 00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.980 knows, which is, okay, now take a look at how 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.500 much damage you did and make a decision if you 00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:24.440 need to strike again or not, okay? Now, regardless, 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.680 Venezuela, I don't know. I don't think he's going 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.259 to, they may try to take out Maduro or something. 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.119 It's not going to be a massive invasion. I am 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:37.500 very bothered by the killing of drug boats in 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.640 the Caribbean. Because to me, look, I flew, you 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:42.920 know, for the National Guard. So overseas, I 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:45.519 did special ops stuff. So, you know, we did, 00:23:45.579 --> 00:23:48.759 we were signals intelligence in the plane. State 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.420 side, we do counter drug. We also did border. 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.420 And we did interdiction on the seas. You know, 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.000 we weren't great at interdiction on the seas 00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:58.279 because we just had the camera. We didn't have 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.359 the signals. But we did some of that. And what 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.960 was so effective on the seas was you find something, 00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:08.079 you know, the guys would shoot the engine out 00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:10.220 of it. And then you interdict it and you get 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:12.900 intelligence. I worked with a lot of your targets 00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:15.359 in Iraq. And I just put this out the other day. 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:17.880 I was thinking of it. It's like 8 out of 10 of 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.240 the targets that I would go after as part of 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:24.240 Task Force 16 or 17, 8 out of 10 were the goal 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.039 was to capture them. Right now, if they were 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.619 too dangerous, they'd be a kill. Or if they were 00:24:30.619 --> 00:24:32.500 they were unwilling to go, they'd be a kill. 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:35.160 But the goal was to capture because you capture 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:36.819 you get their cell phone. You see everybody. 00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:39.140 They've called a bunch. Right. And you exploit 00:24:39.140 --> 00:24:41.720 that information. Same thing with drugs. If we're 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.220 serious about this. And by the way, Venezuela 00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:48.059 is not the narco state that we should be concerned 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:51.630 about. Right. It's other states. But. you would 00:24:51.630 --> 00:24:54.289 capture them. And the other thing is, I'm going 00:24:54.289 --> 00:24:57.470 too long, but this damages our moral authority. 00:24:58.329 --> 00:25:01.049 This isn't about the two guys hanging off the 00:25:01.049 --> 00:25:02.869 boat, whether they were good guys or bad guys, 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:05.589 right? I don't know. Let's assume they were the 00:25:05.589 --> 00:25:08.049 worst two guys to ever live in human history, 00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:11.130 okay? But they were in a mode where they were 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:14.130 trying to survive. Do not tell me they were trying 00:25:14.130 --> 00:25:16.529 to flip a boat. I mean, what, were they in a 00:25:16.529 --> 00:25:18.910 canoe? If they were in a canoe, how are there 00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:20.990 11 people in a canoe? And how can a Hellfire 00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:23.009 missile, how would you need three more Hellfire 00:25:23.009 --> 00:25:25.029 missiles, okay? Don't tell me they're trying 00:25:25.029 --> 00:25:27.490 to flip it. But regardless of whether they were 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:29.950 good or bad, we have a law of armed conflict 00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:33.349 that dictates that they are not legitimate targets 00:25:33.349 --> 00:25:36.789 at that moment. We have maritime law. We have 00:25:36.789 --> 00:25:39.029 rescued pirates from the sea, for God's sakes. 00:25:39.109 --> 00:25:42.589 We rescued Nazis from the sea. We executed Nazis 00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:45.490 that didn't rescue Americans from the sea. This 00:25:45.490 --> 00:25:48.910 is not about these two drug guys. This is about 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:52.930 our soul. This is about America's soul, the damage 00:25:52.930 --> 00:25:55.799 we're doing to ourselves. And the people pulling 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.259 the trigger, I mean, probably the people that 00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:00.299 pulled the trigger is some 25 -year -old kid 00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:03.339 that is gung -ho about serving his country that 00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:06.099 in 20 years is going to be sitting around going 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:09.279 through his head and at 100 % PTSD with the VA 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.119 because he realizes he pulled the trigger on 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.359 two people that were struggling in the water 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.519 to survive. And for our own people, we have our 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:21.240 own soldiers that, you know, if we say it's okay 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.630 to kill people who are surrendering. Yes! What 00:26:24.630 --> 00:26:27.650 message are you sending? What about the young 00:26:27.650 --> 00:26:30.670 kids, by the way? The 18 -year -olds right now 00:26:30.670 --> 00:26:32.250 that are thinking about joining the military 00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:35.670 that have seen no leader, really, to both parties' 00:26:35.730 --> 00:26:38.769 shame, no leader stand up and really inspire 00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:41.670 people about America and how we are a country 00:26:41.670 --> 00:26:44.710 that strives for goodness and better. And we're 00:26:44.710 --> 00:26:47.109 not just competing for power in the world with 00:26:47.109 --> 00:26:49.710 Russia and China. Like, yes, we have to do it 00:26:49.710 --> 00:26:51.609 if it's in America's interest, but we bring with 00:26:51.609 --> 00:26:55.009 us some moral focus. I'll say all that to say, 00:26:55.069 --> 00:26:57.789 lastly, my big concern is China. And it's not 00:26:57.789 --> 00:26:59.670 so much that China's going to invade Taiwan. 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:01.809 I do have worry about that. But it's that this 00:27:01.809 --> 00:27:05.369 administration is selling everything to China 00:27:05.369 --> 00:27:07.910 right now, including the advanced chips, because 00:27:07.910 --> 00:27:12.269 China knows smartly that if they can give Donald 00:27:12.269 --> 00:27:14.589 Trump and his family money, he'll give them anything 00:27:14.589 --> 00:27:17.250 he wants. That's a long answer. I'm sorry. Yeah, 00:27:17.329 --> 00:27:19.750 that reminds me of Lenin's famous quote that 00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:22.569 the capitalists will sell us the rope with which 00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:26.460 we hang them. Totally, totally, totally. And 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:28.279 that's what you see. And that's what you see. 00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:31.680 And Russia, I mean, I guess I skipped over Russia 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:34.319 generally, I assumed with Ukraine, but I will 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:38.680 say Russia is an existential threat as well. 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.140 They're not a superpower. They are a great power. 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:44.640 But the question is, you know, whatever this 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.930 war ends in. Does Vladimir Putin make the decision 00:27:47.930 --> 00:27:51.549 to rearm and attack? Look, if I'm him and I truly 00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.250 believe the United States won't defend Europe, 00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:56.710 I may see how far I can get. One of our colleagues 00:27:56.710 --> 00:27:59.670 characterized Russia as Upper Volta with missiles. 00:28:00.349 --> 00:28:03.450 Yeah, perfect. That's perfect. I don't think 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:05.549 Upper Volta still exists, does it? No, I don't 00:28:05.549 --> 00:28:08.319 think so either. I'm glad I'm not Russian. I 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.339 know that much. Let me get you out of here with 00:28:10.339 --> 00:28:12.539 this. And I feel bad. I really appreciate you 00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:14.140 coming on, even though you have a bit of a cold. 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.240 No, it's great. I enjoyed it. So just one quick, 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:18.259 if you were advising someone who is running, 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.099 a new member of Congress or a new national security 00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:23.019 official who's coming in, either now or in the 00:28:23.019 --> 00:28:25.259 next few years, what would you advise them based 00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:27.160 on your experience to prepare for the pressure 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:31.440 to prioritize the country over party? Any practical 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.480 things? Yeah, I think the first thing is like. 00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:37.150 in assuming my job is not to convince you to 00:28:37.150 --> 00:28:40.569 do it, you've already decided, it is that you 00:28:40.569 --> 00:28:44.150 will, whether it's in the agency, whether it's 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:48.170 in Congress, whether it's in DOD, whatever, you 00:28:48.170 --> 00:28:51.890 will likely in your life have to face a, you 00:28:51.890 --> 00:28:53.950 will face a moral dilemma. And you don't know 00:28:53.950 --> 00:28:55.670 what that's going to look like, right? I never 00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:57.950 would have, I never would have imagined January 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:01.109 6th, right? It was so unthinkable. But I also 00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:04.069 knew that I would reach a moral dilemma. And 00:29:04.069 --> 00:29:06.410 I think there is some real importance, just like, 00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:09.710 you know, a police officer sitting watching TV, 00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:12.789 you know, dry firing his gun, pulling it right 00:29:12.789 --> 00:29:16.089 to to practice that muscle memory. And then you 00:29:16.089 --> 00:29:19.190 see a cop like having a police shooting and you 00:29:19.190 --> 00:29:20.890 see in a quarter of a second they have their 00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:22.970 gun out. Right. And they save themselves. But 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.589 that is muscle memory. It is the same thing in 00:29:25.589 --> 00:29:27.990 courage, which is you don't know what that decision 00:29:27.990 --> 00:29:31.150 is, but there will come a day when you have to 00:29:31.150 --> 00:29:34.859 make a decision that will be. Everything in you 00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:38.400 will be screaming against you making that decision 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:42.299 because your body, your biology wants to defend 00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:46.119 itself. And standing alone is the outside of 00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.119 a tribe, by the way, which is like our most basic 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.740 instinct. That is a survival instinct. But the 00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:54.880 more you in your head just say, like, if there's 00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.789 a point in which I have to make. you know, a 00:29:57.789 --> 00:30:00.809 defining decision, I will do it. Now, that doesn't 00:30:00.809 --> 00:30:04.609 mean run around and look for ways to be a contrarian, 00:30:04.609 --> 00:30:08.109 right? You know, it's like the military, you 00:30:08.109 --> 00:30:10.390 don't have to look around and find everything 00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:13.150 you disagree with. But if there's that moment, 00:30:13.230 --> 00:30:14.809 be willing to make it. And that's what I would 00:30:14.809 --> 00:30:17.849 say is like that dry fire in your mind about, 00:30:17.990 --> 00:30:22.069 you know, if there's that point. Well, Adam, 00:30:22.170 --> 00:30:23.829 thank you so much for spending time with us. 00:30:23.910 --> 00:30:25.750 And if there's anything, are there any anything 00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:28.269 you're plugging now shows other than your Amazon 00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.269 show or books or anything that we can aim people 00:30:30.269 --> 00:30:32.500 towards? I've actually got a children's book 00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:35.279 coming out. That'll be out, though, in the spring. 00:30:35.779 --> 00:30:37.140 I'll tell you what it's called, although it's 00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:39.240 not been. It's called That's What Heroes Do. 00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:42.259 It's really good. And I say that because it's 00:30:42.259 --> 00:30:46.319 my book. So and then I know I'm on Substack. 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.019 So, you know, there. And other than that, John, 00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:51.000 I think I get to see you in a month or two in 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.079 the cold area. So we'll catch you. We'll get 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:56.460 some warm drinks in us. That's right. That's 00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:59.579 right. I'd like to add my thanks, Adam. I mean, 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.099 really, you've got the moral courage that I so 00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:06.900 greatly respect. And I have at least some optimism 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:09.420 that hopefully the Republican Party will regain 00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:12.740 its soul at some point. Me too. And can I just 00:31:12.740 --> 00:31:14.839 say, and I appreciate you saying that about the 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:17.339 courage, but, and I mean this, this isn't like 00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:20.720 self -deprecating, like falsely. It's not really 00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:23.579 courage. It's just, and I've said this before, 00:31:23.660 --> 00:31:26.980 but like I was surrounded by cowards because 00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:31.099 you all took an oath. You understand when that 00:31:31.099 --> 00:31:33.599 defining thing comes up, what your oath requires. 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:37.140 They all knew it, but they were all scared. All 00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:39.619 I did was what my oath said. That's it. We had 00:31:39.619 --> 00:31:42.180 a senior CIA officer who ran the clandestine 00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:44.880 service who said, why is it that I have officers 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.480 who will risk their lives, but not their careers? 00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:51.859 Amen. So true. Best thing to say. Best thing. 00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:54.740 So true. So true. Well, I think you did more 00:31:54.740 --> 00:31:57.160 than that, but I also do think that all of us 00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.519 have to do more than we're doing. So again, thank 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.799 you very much. And let me just close out by saying 00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:03.660 to people, if you like what you're hearing, please 00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:05.960 subscribe to The Sentinel and follow Steady State 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.759 content and give us a five -star review on Google 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.160 if you can. The reviews really help us get important 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.819 content to the widest audience possible. So stay 00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:16.559 informed, stay engaged. And join us next Tuesday 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:18.359 for another episode of Steady State Sentinel. 00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:20.859 This is John Seifer and Jim Lawler, still standing 00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:26.720 watch. Thank you for listening to the Steady 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.299 State Sentinel podcast. Don't miss out on more 00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:33.480 insights and exposés from America's premier global 00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:37.220 security experts. Also, subscribe to our Substack 00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:42.359 at substack .com slash at SteadyState1. And follow 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:44.819 our social media. And join us right here next 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:48.299 week for another exciting edition. The Steady 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.079 State is a nonprofit organization working to 00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:53.140 sustain our democracy and national security. 00:32:54.099 --> 00:32:57.559 Join us and support our mission by visiting www 00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:59.799 .thesteadysate .org.