WEBVTT - Generated by artificial intelligence - any errors are unintentional. 00:00:03.320 --> 00:00:05.700 The Steady State Sentinel is produced by the 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:07.679 Steady State, a community of former national 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.960 security professionals who spent their careers 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.800 safeguarding the United States at home and abroad. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:20.199 Today, we continue that mission by staying true 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.640 to our oaths to defend the Constitution, uphold 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:26.500 our democracy, and protect our nation's security. 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.260 Join our expert hosts as they interview field 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:33.380 -tested guests whose unique experiences shed 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:36.719 light on the crises and challenges facing our 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:54.219 nation. Welcome to the Steady State Sentinel. 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.359 I'm Lauren Anderson. joined by Jim Lawler, Peter 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:01.960 Mina, and John Seifer. We're launching this podcast 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.799 at a time when our democracy faces real threats. 00:01:05.260 --> 00:01:08.540 The guardrails we trusted are eroding, respect 00:01:08.540 --> 00:01:11.739 for the rule of law is slipping, and too many 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:14.040 of our leaders are no longer accountable to the 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.560 people they serve. We've spent our careers defending 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:19.980 those guardrails, both at home and around the 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:23.299 world. We've seen what healthy democracies look 00:01:23.299 --> 00:01:25.930 like. and we've seen the warning signs when they 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:28.930 begin to decline. That's why we're beginning 00:01:28.930 --> 00:01:32.769 with January 6th, where we were, what we thought, 00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:36.390 and why that day still matters. We also know 00:01:36.390 --> 00:01:38.590 people experienced that day in different ways. 00:01:39.069 --> 00:01:43.049 Some were horrified. Others were confused. Some 00:01:43.049 --> 00:01:45.390 supported the protest but rejected the violence. 00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:49.430 And some remain unsure what to believe. This 00:01:49.430 --> 00:01:52.989 space is for all of you. Our goal is to speak 00:01:52.989 --> 00:01:56.230 objectively and factually about the trends that 00:01:56.230 --> 00:01:59.950 accelerate democratic decline. We see it in executive 00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:02.969 overreach, the manipulation of national security, 00:02:03.489 --> 00:02:06.329 attacks on our institutions, and the erosion 00:02:06.329 --> 00:02:10.229 of public trust. We'll talk about what all this 00:02:10.229 --> 00:02:12.789 means, not just for the Constitution and the 00:02:12.789 --> 00:02:15.689 rule of law, but for your life and your community. 00:02:16.629 --> 00:02:19.969 We want this to be a conversation. Your questions, 00:02:20.150 --> 00:02:23.330 concerns, and ideas will shape future episodes. 00:02:24.090 --> 00:02:26.889 Whether you agree with us or not, your voice 00:02:26.889 --> 00:02:31.069 has a place here. Democracy thrives when people 00:02:31.069 --> 00:02:34.409 stay informed, engaged, and willing to talk with 00:02:34.409 --> 00:02:38.229 one another, even when it's hard. Today, we'll 00:02:38.229 --> 00:02:41.490 start by introducing ourselves, who we are, why 00:02:41.490 --> 00:02:44.349 we're here, and why January 6th was a turning 00:02:44.349 --> 00:02:47.270 point for each of us. We're glad you're with 00:02:47.270 --> 00:02:51.669 us. And Jim, would you like to lead off? Thank 00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:55.409 you, Lauren. I'm Jim Lawler. For 25 years, I 00:02:55.409 --> 00:02:58.370 was an operations officer with the Central Intelligence 00:02:58.370 --> 00:03:03.629 Agency. And on January the 19th, 1980, I swore 00:03:03.629 --> 00:03:06.150 an oath to the Constitution. And I've upheld 00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:10.189 that oath for the last 45 years. And I was very, 00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:13.659 very proud of the fact that... My fellow CIA 00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:16.800 officers and FBI special agents have done the 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.860 same, and I'm very troubled today as to what 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:22.340 I'm seeing, as Lauren put it, the erosion of 00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:26.219 our democratic institutions. On January the 6th, 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:31.099 the thing that struck me was I had been in a 00:03:31.099 --> 00:03:33.840 bad accident a few days earlier, and I was bedridden, 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:39.270 and I was watching with horror unfold. the storming 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.629 of the Capitol, something that had not happened, 00:03:41.669 --> 00:03:45.969 at least not in my lifetime. And I watched this 00:03:45.969 --> 00:03:48.250 and I felt kind of like the actor Jimmy Stewart 00:03:48.250 --> 00:03:50.969 in Rear Window watching horror unfold and he 00:03:50.969 --> 00:03:55.069 could do nothing about it. And I was motivated 00:03:55.069 --> 00:04:00.090 to participate in this program, this Steady State 00:04:00.090 --> 00:04:05.180 Sentinel program, because of... A few lines that 00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:07.979 I remembered from the famous German pastor, Martin 00:04:07.979 --> 00:04:10.560 Niemöller, who said, first they came for the 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.379 socialists and I did not speak out because I 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.019 was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:18.920 unionists and I did not speak out because I was 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.779 not a trade unionist. And then they came for 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:24.660 the Jews and I did not speak out because I'm 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.399 not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:29.939 no one left to speak for me. And I'm very, very 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:31.959 concerned about that. And so when I was asked 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:35.259 to. help host these programs, I thought we need 00:04:35.259 --> 00:04:39.800 to take a steady stand with a steady state and 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:43.420 speak out. Well, Jim, a lot of this, a lot of 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:46.060 what you said just resonates so much with me. 00:04:46.420 --> 00:04:49.920 And for everyone, my name is Peter Mina. I spent 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.300 14 years at the Department of Homeland Security, 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.759 including six running the labor and employment 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.930 law program at ICE. And then another six years 00:05:00.930 --> 00:05:03.750 at DHS's Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, 00:05:03.829 --> 00:05:08.069 including running the office for about a six 00:05:08.069 --> 00:05:11.589 -month period through inauguration and the transition. 00:05:12.769 --> 00:05:17.769 And January 6th was a very strange time for me. 00:05:17.850 --> 00:05:20.589 I was at the Office for Civil Rights and Civil 00:05:20.589 --> 00:05:22.970 Liberties. We were in the throes of the pandemic. 00:05:23.990 --> 00:05:28.730 I was sitting at home on my computer. watching, 00:05:28.850 --> 00:05:32.790 almost feeling somewhat helpless, watching the 00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:35.550 news and hearing what was going on and being 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:38.569 at the department, you were getting sort of these 00:05:38.569 --> 00:05:41.029 updates about what was happening in real time. 00:05:41.370 --> 00:05:45.709 And it was horrifying. And particularly at a 00:05:45.709 --> 00:05:49.350 civil rights office, there was real concern about 00:05:49.350 --> 00:05:54.529 what this meant, not just for... the people, 00:05:54.629 --> 00:05:56.750 unfortunately, at the Capitol and that we're 00:05:56.750 --> 00:05:59.670 facing real harm, but what it meant for the country 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:03.470 and what it meant for us as an office that was 00:06:03.470 --> 00:06:05.750 trying to make sure that civil rights and civil 00:06:05.750 --> 00:06:09.810 liberties were protected at a department that's 00:06:09.810 --> 00:06:12.589 now, you know, squarely front and center as to 00:06:12.589 --> 00:06:15.769 what the government is doing. And so for me, 00:06:15.850 --> 00:06:19.589 the other kind of inflection point and why I'm 00:06:19.589 --> 00:06:21.529 here and why I'm a member of the steady state. 00:06:22.990 --> 00:06:27.009 was March 21st of this year, which is when the 00:06:27.009 --> 00:06:29.569 department and the administration announced that 00:06:29.569 --> 00:06:31.610 my office, the Office for Civil Rights and Solidarities, 00:06:31.730 --> 00:06:34.829 was going to be eliminated. And at that point, 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:38.829 and it's something that I had been thinking about 00:06:38.829 --> 00:06:43.310 for some time, I just decided that, look, this 00:06:43.310 --> 00:06:47.129 isn't consistent with my values. It's not consistent 00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:51.750 with why I chose to serve. as I'm sure it wouldn't 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:53.910 be for all of you. And for many of the folks 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:56.610 that are listening that have gone through similar 00:06:56.610 --> 00:07:01.009 horrors at their federal workplaces or even elsewhere. 00:07:01.689 --> 00:07:07.129 And so I think it also, in a real hurry, makes 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:09.649 you really clear on what your values are and 00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:12.490 what matters most. And honestly, what doesn't 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:16.930 matter much at all. And so with that, I felt 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:21.000 I couldn't be a spectator anymore. I had to go 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.779 out and do something. I had to stand up for people 00:07:23.779 --> 00:07:28.079 that were too afraid to do it themselves. And 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.019 so I just decided it was time to find another 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:33.620 way to serve. And so this is the way I've chosen 00:07:33.620 --> 00:07:39.139 to serve. Thanks, Peter. Thanks, Jim. My name 00:07:39.139 --> 00:07:43.319 is John Seifer. I spent 28 years in the clandestine 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.079 service of the Central Intelligence Agency, serving 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.149 at lots of places around the world. And I loved 00:07:49.149 --> 00:07:52.449 and I'm proud of my service. And I believe that 00:07:52.449 --> 00:07:54.709 our institutions are gems that the public would 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:56.990 be really proud of if they knew the work that 00:07:56.990 --> 00:08:01.149 those people did every day. And frankly, January 00:08:01.149 --> 00:08:03.689 6th, but also even more than that, I'm upset 00:08:03.689 --> 00:08:07.110 about how those public institutions are being 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:10.769 undermined for petty and partisan reasons. And 00:08:10.769 --> 00:08:13.009 frankly, I've seen what happens in other countries 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:16.089 when authoritarian governments take over or that 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:19.050 when they're... public servants are denigrated. 00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:22.569 And I also believe that those of us who served 00:08:22.569 --> 00:08:24.930 have an obligation to help educate the public 00:08:24.930 --> 00:08:27.250 to what we do. And so as such, I'm proud to be 00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:31.290 part of the steady state as well. Thanks. And 00:08:31.290 --> 00:08:35.029 I'm Lauren Anderson again. Like Jim, like Peter 00:08:35.029 --> 00:08:39.990 and John, I took an oath 41 years ago, and it 00:08:39.990 --> 00:08:43.429 still resonates with me today. I spent 29 years 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:47.149 with the FBI. Working both in the United States 00:08:47.149 --> 00:08:49.730 as well as abroad in Europe, Africa and the Middle 00:08:49.730 --> 00:08:53.649 East. Very strong background in counterintelligence 00:08:53.649 --> 00:08:56.789 and counterterrorism, running the Joint Terrorism 00:08:56.789 --> 00:08:59.710 Task Force in New York. And I loved it. I loved 00:08:59.710 --> 00:09:03.450 every minute of that career. And after leaving 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:06.110 the FBI, I focused on trying to find a way to 00:09:06.110 --> 00:09:08.370 continue giving. And one of the ways I've done 00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:11.169 that and continued serving. is as an advisor 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:14.210 to our U .S. Comptroller General at the Government 00:09:14.210 --> 00:09:17.210 Accountability Office, which is the real doge. 00:09:17.289 --> 00:09:19.730 It is the real institution that's been around 00:09:19.730 --> 00:09:23.929 for more than 100 years to focus on fraud, waste 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:26.490 and abuse and mismanagement within the government. 00:09:26.629 --> 00:09:30.250 And they do an extraordinary job. And I can remember 00:09:30.250 --> 00:09:33.210 January 6th so clearly because I was literally 00:09:33.210 --> 00:09:37.820 on a Zoom call. with two colleagues who are in 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:41.279 an international organization with me, and they 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.840 were seeking my guidance on how we might balance 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.559 the competing views in the organization post 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:50.740 the election, because I was lucky enough to be 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:53.539 somebody who could move readily among all the 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:56.139 different constituent groups. And at the same 00:09:56.139 --> 00:09:59.820 time, I was literally preparing for a presentation 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:03.120 as a guest lecturer at NYU in their master's 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.720 program in international affairs. on domestic 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.700 terrorism. And so literally to know I would be 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:13.100 walking into a virtual classroom with students 00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:16.139 from all over the globe, just two weeks later, 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:21.100 struck me in an extraordinary way. And it drove 00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:24.320 it home for me. And I felt so strongly that I 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.039 wanted to keep continuing giving, which I have. 00:10:27.259 --> 00:10:30.120 But I have to agree with Peter that earlier this 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.179 year, Things also changed in a more significant 00:10:33.179 --> 00:10:37.299 way for me personally as I watched enormous changes 00:10:37.299 --> 00:10:40.460 going on within the FBI, an institution I love, 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.820 and people that I care deeply about who were 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:47.039 being removed for doing their jobs and no other 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:51.440 reason. I've watched leader after leader dismissed 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.120 because they wouldn't play along with a political 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.899 game. In one instance, a friend of mine who was 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:01.649 heading the Salt Lake City office, was dismissed 00:11:01.649 --> 00:11:03.970 two weeks before Charlie Kirk was assassinated. 00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:09.129 And absolutely zero reason. And so for me, I 00:11:09.129 --> 00:11:12.110 can't, like everyone else in this group, I can't 00:11:12.110 --> 00:11:15.250 sit by and watch this. I am compelled to do what 00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:18.330 I can. And if it's my voice that I can use in 00:11:18.330 --> 00:11:21.529 helping to share experiences and encourage everybody 00:11:21.529 --> 00:11:24.830 to talk, not only... the four of us, but all 00:11:24.830 --> 00:11:26.429 of the people that we'll be speaking with on 00:11:26.429 --> 00:11:28.950 the podcast, then that's a great thing because 00:11:28.950 --> 00:11:32.409 I'm a big believer in bringing everyone in. And 00:11:32.409 --> 00:11:35.590 the more we can get from people who have disparate 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:37.470 viewpoints, the better, because hopefully that 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:41.129 starts a dialogue for all of us. Lauren, I feel 00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:44.250 like I could just say ditto. I think that for 00:11:44.250 --> 00:11:46.610 me, you know, it makes me really think about 00:11:46.610 --> 00:11:49.830 why I want to be part of this podcast. And I 00:11:49.830 --> 00:11:53.419 think that. I am fortunate enough to have an 00:11:53.419 --> 00:11:56.580 opportunity to really talk about the intersection 00:11:56.580 --> 00:11:59.500 of national security with civil rights and civil 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.259 liberties, which couldn't be more important than 00:12:02.259 --> 00:12:05.500 right now. And I see it every single day. And 00:12:05.500 --> 00:12:07.860 to your point about working, you know, with the 00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:10.539 GAO or the government accountability office, 00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:15.779 you know, I, as part of oversight, that also 00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:19.440 is, I feel like part of my responsibility now 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.210 as a private citizen. um to try and really illustrate 00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:27.909 what the guard rails should be and that these 00:12:27.909 --> 00:12:31.330 two concepts of protecting people's rights and 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:34.629 liberties and securing our nation are not mutually 00:12:34.629 --> 00:12:38.889 exclusive they are they rely on each other and 00:12:38.889 --> 00:12:43.090 i also think that we have a very profound responsibility 00:12:43.090 --> 00:12:46.759 as people that have been in the government in 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:49.659 the national security enterprise to use this 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:54.340 platform to really make what's happening in washington 00:12:54.340 --> 00:13:00.059 real for the person in nebraska or in el paso 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:04.720 texas or in chicago and you know more and more 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.799 of this is this effort by the administration 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:12.539 is coming to people's doorsteps and you know 00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:16.029 i think that it is up to us to really show folks 00:13:16.029 --> 00:13:19.169 that this isn't some abstract idea in Washington. 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:22.750 It affects each one of us every single day in 00:13:22.750 --> 00:13:25.830 profound ways. And if we don't use our voices, 00:13:25.950 --> 00:13:29.570 the outcome is not going to be good, not just 00:13:29.570 --> 00:13:34.590 for you and I, but for us as a nation. Thanks 00:13:34.590 --> 00:13:39.279 for that. Like Jim, I worked in the clandestine 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.860 service, in the secret side of the CIA, running 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:43.820 and recruiting spies overseas. And I remember 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:46.960 one time when we had one new director, General 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.240 Hayden, he spoke about the obligation. If you 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.980 work in a secret organization for the U .S. government, 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:56.200 the U .S. government is often uncomfortable. 00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.559 American citizens are often uncomfortable with 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.460 secrecy and what that means. His point was that 00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:05.899 the leadership of the organization and as you 00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:08.700 retire and go out, we have an obligation to the 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:11.240 public to try to explain what it is we do, how 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.799 we do it and why we do it. Certainly, we need 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.879 to protect serious secrets, but we also have 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.600 an obligation to the public. And since I retired, 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:21.940 I've taken that seriously. I write, I've written 00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:24.039 for a lot of op -ed pieces for The New York Times, 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.899 Washington Post, Atlantic and other places. I 00:14:26.899 --> 00:14:29.460 speak on podcasts and television when it makes 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:32.299 sense. oftentimes about Russia and what I learned 00:14:32.299 --> 00:14:36.200 from working there. But I also agree with Jim, 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.519 Lauren, and Peter that, you know, what we're 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.179 seeing now is an attack on some of those First 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:45.820 Amendment rights, an attack on what public servants 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:50.539 are doing, and an attack on giving the public 00:14:50.539 --> 00:14:53.019 real information. So we're trying to put out 00:14:53.019 --> 00:14:56.139 what we learned in our experience. either throughout 00:14:56.139 --> 00:14:58.460 the government or around the world to try to 00:14:58.460 --> 00:15:01.600 let people know what's important to us so that 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.299 people can sift that and make their own decisions 00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:06.779 on things. So I think the Steady State podcast 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.500 is going to be a place where we bring in a lot 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:10.539 of different voices to talk about their experiences. 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:13.620 And I think the common denominator is going to 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:18.320 be what we believe is country over party. We're 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.159 all patriots. We all care about this country 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:22.159 very strongly. And there's different ways to 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:23.639 do that. And I think that's the kind of thing 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.299 we're going to talk about on the podcast. Building 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:29.899 on John's comments just now, I have a feeling 00:15:29.899 --> 00:15:32.879 he shares with me the fact that prior to the 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:36.639 election in 2016, the first Trump election, I 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:39.620 never knew, nor did I care what the political 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:42.519 affiliation of any of my colleagues was. I never 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:46.509 knew. I didn't care. And I'll be totally candid. 00:15:46.789 --> 00:15:51.450 I am or was, past tense, a moderate Republican. 00:15:52.090 --> 00:15:55.750 I'm not sure that those exist anymore. I hate 00:15:55.750 --> 00:15:58.990 to say that. But back then, back, you know, prior 00:15:58.990 --> 00:16:01.820 to the 2016 election. I didn't know. We didn't 00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:04.519 wear political buttons. We weren't working for 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:06.980 one political party or another. We were working 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:09.419 for the United States and our national security. 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.899 And that's what we want to convey on this podcast 00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:17.059 of the Steady State Sentinel, that what we do 00:16:17.059 --> 00:16:19.840 matters for our national security. And we hate 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.840 to see the corrosion, the destruction of what 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.139 we defended, what we went out and did for so 00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:29.279 many years. One thing I'd like to ask John, quite 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.039 frankly, I know I've known John for over 25 years, 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.500 maybe 30 years. It goes back a ways. We're both 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:40.179 old. Right. John is one of the best operations 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:42.840 officers I've ever known in the Central Intelligence 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.840 Agency. John served overseas under extremely 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.600 difficult conditions, and he did it for the United 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.919 States. And yet, I believe I'm right in this. 00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:56.500 I think he had his clearances stripped. That 00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:59.419 is disgraceful. He had his clearances stripped 00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:02.100 because people think he's part of a deep state, 00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:06.980 something that doesn't exist. And I just was 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:10.279 horrified when I saw John's name on this list 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:12.700 of people. I mean, I thought, what's next, a 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:16.140 list of people being sent to Guantanamo? Anyways, 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:19.799 actually, to be quite honest with you, when I 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:21.720 saw John's name on the list, I thought, well, 00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:23.880 damn, maybe they should put my name on the list. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.579 Soon enough, Jim. Soon enough. Right. Just a 00:17:28.579 --> 00:17:30.420 quick follow -up on that. Yeah, there was a group 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:34.440 of CIA officers who signed a letter before the 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.380 2020 election warning that the Russians are likely 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:39.039 to try to interfere in our elections like they 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:44.660 did in 2016. And that became pushed for partisan 00:17:44.660 --> 00:17:47.160 reasons by the other side. And when Trump was 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.599 elected this time, he put all of us in a presidential 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.410 order on the day he came into power. that stripped 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:55.849 our clearances. Now, frankly, one of the things 00:17:55.849 --> 00:17:57.430 I think we're going to find as we talk about 00:17:57.430 --> 00:18:00.529 what's happening now is issues related to corruption 00:18:00.529 --> 00:18:02.930 and incompetence. Those of us who worked in the 00:18:02.930 --> 00:18:05.250 government, you know, we took our job very seriously. 00:18:05.349 --> 00:18:07.450 We tried to be competent. We tried to work on 00:18:07.450 --> 00:18:09.710 behalf of the American people. Whereas I see 00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:13.009 from this administration, there's incompetence. 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:14.630 And one of the incompetent thing is I had my 00:18:14.630 --> 00:18:17.559 security clearances stripped. But I didn't have 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.079 any security clearances. I hadn't been working 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.339 in the secret sector for a number of years. So 00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:25.019 I think they think they did something quite nasty 00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:27.859 to me, but it didn't matter. But that goes to 00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:29.740 incompetence. But the corruption part of it is 00:18:29.740 --> 00:18:33.140 to attack people for exercising their First Amendment 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:37.200 rights and to get wrong what they claimed that 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.920 we had done. I'd like to jump in and echo that, 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.200 too, because one of the things that I always 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.420 heard overseas is that. Our counterparts, whether 00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:50.400 it was in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, always 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.180 marveled at the fact that our institutions were 00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:57.940 largely not confronted with dealing with politicizing 00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:00.019 the work. We were able to do our work. And that 00:19:00.019 --> 00:19:01.880 was something that people said over and over 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.980 to me is how great is it to work in a country 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.500 and for an organization where the politics don't 00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:11.819 matter? And one point where I saw that really 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:15.130 clearly in the FBI is that. Whatever people say 00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:18.950 on the campaign trail, what I found during the 00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:21.049 decades I was in the Bureau is that when we put 00:19:21.049 --> 00:19:23.569 together the national security briefings for 00:19:23.569 --> 00:19:26.670 the incoming president, whoever he was, whichever 00:19:26.670 --> 00:19:29.589 party he was from, we prepared those briefing 00:19:29.589 --> 00:19:33.430 materials that the incoming president and his 00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:36.720 team were briefed. And remarkably, no matter 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.960 what they said on that campaign trail, once they 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.539 understood the state of things in national security, 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:45.220 they were remarkably down a centrist line. The 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.319 politics that might have been present during 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.519 the campaign were no longer there because the 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.119 reality was national security was something that 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:55.359 everyone got behind. There could be differences 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.519 in domestic policy. But when it came to this. 00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:02.250 there was remarkable commonality. And just to 00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:04.890 speak a little bit, John, on your thread on corruption, 00:20:05.170 --> 00:20:08.230 I agree with what you said. And in a real sense, 00:20:08.470 --> 00:20:11.269 it's happening too, because this administration 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.069 has made the decision to not enforce, to stop 00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:17.069 enforcement of laws that are currently on the 00:20:17.069 --> 00:20:19.849 books that have to do with bribery, with foreign 00:20:19.849 --> 00:20:23.390 officials. They have dismantled many of the FBI's 00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:25.589 white -collar crime squads, in particular, the 00:20:25.589 --> 00:20:28.450 corruption squads. They've diverted resources 00:20:28.450 --> 00:20:33.289 to working with ICE rather than working on national 00:20:33.289 --> 00:20:36.849 security matters. And that's a politicization 00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:40.549 of the FBI that has not been there in 50 years 00:20:40.549 --> 00:20:43.130 and doesn't belong there. And that is making 00:20:43.130 --> 00:20:46.789 all of us less safe. And it goes further to the 00:20:46.789 --> 00:20:49.789 corruption piece that is there and I think going 00:20:49.789 --> 00:20:53.509 to continue on with us. Yeah, to add to that, 00:20:53.569 --> 00:20:57.829 Lauren, with the FBI, they're also... diminishing 00:20:57.829 --> 00:20:59.690 the counterintelligence and counterespionage 00:20:59.690 --> 00:21:03.349 part of the FBI. So defending us against those 00:21:03.349 --> 00:21:05.750 countries, those enemies abroad who want to do 00:21:05.750 --> 00:21:08.230 damage to the United States, whether they be 00:21:08.230 --> 00:21:10.250 Iranians, Russians, Chinese, or what have you, 00:21:10.309 --> 00:21:13.750 the FBI's counterintelligence mission is front 00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:15.990 and center in trying to stop that kind of either 00:21:15.990 --> 00:21:18.549 espionage, disinformation, subversion, what have 00:21:18.549 --> 00:21:22.529 you. And so they're breaking down barriers inside 00:21:22.529 --> 00:21:25.759 against corruption and fraud, but also... in 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.720 terms of what external actors are up to. I'm 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.039 not quite the counterintelligence expert that 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:35.220 Lauren is, but for those 25 years that I was 00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:38.819 at the CIA, my job was to recruit spies, foreign 00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:41.980 spies. And I can tell you right now that not 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.880 once in my 25 years did I ever recruit a happy 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.160 person. I only recruited stressed out people. 00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:52.500 And by firing a lot of national security officials 00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:56.740 with secrets. that protect us, protect our Constitution, 00:21:57.019 --> 00:22:01.160 protect our country. We have created a horrible 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.640 nightmare on the counterintelligence side. I'm 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.420 sure that the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.460 and all of our adversaries are gleeful watching 00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:13.480 this, that it's a target -rich environment. And 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.160 I don't want to cast suspicions on any of my 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.619 colleagues that got let off, but I'm telling 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:22.900 you, this is not the way to run a country. And 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:25.140 I know, Peter, if I just jump in for one second, 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:28.519 I know you have thoughts, too. But to echo that, 00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:30.579 Jim, what's really important for people to understand 00:22:30.579 --> 00:22:33.059 is, yes, we've created essentially a hunting 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.380 ground. But what's more insidious is that some 00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:39.279 of our adversaries, in particular China and Russia, 00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:43.079 have been very adept at using LinkedIn and other 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:45.599 platforms that people think are largely safe 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.099 as a means of recruiting people. And it's not 00:22:48.099 --> 00:22:50.799 immediately evident. to any of these people who 00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.039 might be looking for jobs, that they could be 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.559 dealing with an actor representing the Chinese 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.779 government or the Russian government. So I think 00:22:58.779 --> 00:23:01.839 part of what we can each do, not necessarily, 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:03.940 but possibly through the podcast and outside, 00:23:04.099 --> 00:23:06.539 is to share with our colleagues who have lost 00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:09.240 their jobs and make them super aware of the fact 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:13.200 that that risk is out there in a very subtle 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.259 way as well as a very overt way. And I think 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.230 for me, you know obviously i did not have the 00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:22.970 the honor of serving in the same way the three 00:23:22.970 --> 00:23:26.950 of you did as operators um in the national security 00:23:26.950 --> 00:23:31.029 space however you know i stood side by side with 00:23:31.029 --> 00:23:34.170 those operators and i considered myself as well 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:36.869 as my colleagues you know national security professionals 00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:40.910 and i you know i think about intelligence gathering 00:23:40.910 --> 00:23:44.710 and the idea of you know looking at intelligence 00:23:44.710 --> 00:23:47.769 products and considering you know foreign malign 00:23:47.769 --> 00:23:50.750 influence and how that intersects with first 00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:53.569 amendment protected activity and i think about 00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:57.970 what's happening right now and i i see not only 00:23:57.970 --> 00:24:01.210 the near -term effects of what's happening but 00:24:01.210 --> 00:24:04.650 also a weakening of our national security enterprise 00:24:04.650 --> 00:24:07.509 because we are now discouraging people that would 00:24:07.509 --> 00:24:10.619 otherwise raise their hand to serve Because they 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.400 don't want to be part of this. And I also feel 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.660 very strongly, and I've chosen in addition to 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:21.279 doing this podcast and trying to speak out where 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.940 I can, I've chosen to go back into private practice 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:27.740 and advocate for federal employees and take on 00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:34.400 civil rights litigation. And it stuns me that 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.079 it seems like the only law that matters. in this 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:40.339 current moment is the Immigration and Nationality 00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:45.339 Act. And unfortunately, all of the wonderful, 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.180 proud, dedicated law enforcement officers in 00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:54.019 the federal government and national security 00:24:54.019 --> 00:24:58.180 professionals in the IC and other places are 00:24:58.180 --> 00:25:01.940 sworn to uphold the Constitution and the laws 00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:06.400 of the United States, not just a law. And as 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.680 someone who has seen people's rights and liberties 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.660 get trampled on in the employment context as 00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:17.400 well as in the public sphere, it just goes against 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.059 everything I stand for. And it is really hard 00:25:20.059 --> 00:25:23.759 to watch. Thanks for that. Peter, just to mention, 00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:25.759 I want to stress what you guys have all mentioned, 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:29.460 especially Jim, is from my experience in professional 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:31.660 service in the government is it was apolitical 00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:35.309 work. We were hired for professional. We were 00:25:35.309 --> 00:25:37.829 trained for those skills. We operated on behalf 00:25:37.829 --> 00:25:40.210 of the American people. But same thing. I worked 00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:42.130 for almost 30 years with people around the world, 00:25:42.170 --> 00:25:45.230 in and out, long days and all kinds of crazy 00:25:45.230 --> 00:25:48.029 situations. We never discussed partisan politics. 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:51.089 We never discussed who supports who, you know, 00:25:51.089 --> 00:25:54.109 which party, which candidate, any of that type 00:25:54.109 --> 00:25:55.410 of thing, because we worked for the American 00:25:55.410 --> 00:25:57.910 people. And as different administrations come 00:25:57.910 --> 00:26:00.670 and go, they would change policies. They might 00:26:00.670 --> 00:26:04.680 change some things, but they didn't. ask us to 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.140 operate on behalf of a single person or a single 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:10.640 partisan policy. It was more you're working for 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.720 the American people. And I think what's happened 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.880 is leadership now, for their own partisan reasons, 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.000 have spread this. frankly, lie that people who 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.000 work inside the government of some kind of deep 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.380 state who are working on behalf of one party 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.619 or another. So in their views, if they're not 00:26:26.619 --> 00:26:29.039 part of one party, they're an enemy to the other 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.119 party. And that's simply not our experience. 00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:32.880 And I think that's the thing we're going to want 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:35.259 to talk about on this podcast. So some of the 00:26:35.259 --> 00:26:37.799 people that I've started to interview are people 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.200 who are in that vein that talk about country 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.930 over party. For example, I'm interviewing Adam 00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:45.450 Kinzinger. So Adam Kinzinger was a Republican 00:26:45.450 --> 00:26:49.970 politician in the Congress. He then served loyally 00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:53.769 on the January 6th commission. He and Liz Cheney 00:26:53.769 --> 00:26:56.170 were the only two Republicans on the committee. 00:26:57.009 --> 00:26:59.630 He did Yeoman's work. And so I think we're going 00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.130 to talk to him about his experience and why he, 00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:07.170 you know, why as a Republican, he was been pushed 00:27:07.170 --> 00:27:08.970 out of the party and pushed out of Congress. 00:27:09.349 --> 00:27:12.380 I'm going to talk to some. former military generals 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:15.440 and others. I've talked to Terry Vertz, who's 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.000 a former fighter pilot and astronaut who's running 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.299 for Congress in Texas. And I think we're all 00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:23.299 going to be talking to people. And I think you're 00:27:23.299 --> 00:27:25.960 going to find a common thread here that people 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:29.619 believe that working on behalf of the country 00:27:29.619 --> 00:27:33.259 in an apolitical way is something that's probably 00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:36.380 better for us than this version that we're all 00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:39.960 enemies of each other here in America. And John, 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:44.279 I... I feel that very personally. In October, 00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.160 right before the election, not just at the Department 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.359 of Homeland Security or involving the Department 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:51.900 of Homeland Security, but as I understand it 00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:54.640 at other federal agencies, watch list websites 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.440 started to pop up, you know, identifying career 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.359 civil servants as people that might be opposed 00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.859 to the incoming administration. And, you know, 00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:08.839 I have the honor or privilege, however you want 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:11.809 to look at it. of being on the DHS watch list, 00:28:11.950 --> 00:28:15.910 basically for doing my job. And, you know, fine. 00:28:16.130 --> 00:28:18.750 I was a senior executive. You know, I was out 00:28:18.750 --> 00:28:21.730 there in the public domain. Still not fair, but 00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:25.230 I get it. What I don't get, though, is your, 00:28:25.289 --> 00:28:31.390 you know, GS -12, GS -13 staff person who doesn't 00:28:31.390 --> 00:28:37.170 ask for any of this. And instead, they're being 00:28:37.170 --> 00:28:39.960 targeted. And you can imagine the things that 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.240 are being said on social media and elsewhere. 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.359 And what has now become, you know, very real 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:49.279 physical threats. I had to contact my police 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:53.359 department about anti -swatting. I had to talk 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.460 to my kids' school. Hey, heads up, this is happening, 00:28:56.539 --> 00:29:00.680 just in case. And no one should ever fear for 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:03.000 their safety, for doing their job and serving 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:08.220 the American people. And I think what... Again, 00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:11.519 what this also drives home for me every time 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:16.079 I think about it is this is not a time to be 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:21.700 a spectator. We all have a responsibility to 00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:24.640 do something. That could be as simple as having 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.539 a conversation with your neighbor about what's 00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:31.420 going on and trying to explain, you know, what 00:29:31.420 --> 00:29:34.799 might be a kind of a obscure or obtuse concept. 00:29:35.789 --> 00:29:38.529 you know hey why does this affect me you know 00:29:38.529 --> 00:29:41.630 why does what's happening you know either somewhere 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:44.109 around the world or somewhere in dc why does 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:48.430 that matter um and i and doing it in a way that 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.269 people can understand and appreciate rather than 00:29:52.269 --> 00:29:54.730 you know we've all heard it our whole careers 00:29:54.730 --> 00:29:58.109 you know rather than using dc speak um and i 00:29:58.109 --> 00:30:00.170 say it as a lawyer like or sounding like a lawyer 00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:04.220 um so I think that, you know, again, we have 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:06.759 a real responsibility, but it's not just the 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.299 four of us. It's every single person out there. 00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:13.220 I agree. I'd like to jump in. We haven't really 00:30:13.220 --> 00:30:15.559 touched on it, but when we think of our future 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.059 guests, things that we want to talk about, something 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:20.619 that is important to all of us and the entire 00:30:20.619 --> 00:30:22.619 government are the relationships that we have 00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:26.119 with our partners, whether it's what is referred 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:28.220 to as the Five Eye Alliances, which is Canada, 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:30.859 New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdom, and 00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:34.539 the U .S. And our allies well beyond that. And 00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:36.599 they also have an important perspective because 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.619 they are a part of this national security game 00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:42.980 with us. And their view is important. One of 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:45.039 the most important things I learned when I was 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.960 first overseas is when the U .S. invaded Iraq, 00:30:48.259 --> 00:30:51.420 both Canada and France, and I was living in France, 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:54.839 were really opposed to the decision by the United 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:57.660 States. And I was particularly concerned that 00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:00.099 it was going to impact. The liaison relationship 00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:03.299 in the French, my French counterpart said, that's 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.480 politics. Don't worry about it. We have a mission 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.420 to do. We stay focused on that. Let the politicians 00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:11.900 do what they want. So I think that we also it's 00:31:11.900 --> 00:31:14.000 important for us to share with our audience that 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.759 our allies in countries around the world. also 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.779 are a part of our national security apparatus. 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.480 And we will, from time to time, be bringing them 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.920 in as well to share their perspective from as 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.500 they sit looking outside the United States into 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:31.599 it. Yeah, I think that's true. I think... Our 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:33.640 partners, our allies around the world are something 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.259 special that the United States has because those 00:31:36.259 --> 00:31:37.720 people have learned that the United States plays 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:40.599 a special role in the world. And I think we here 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:42.900 all take that very seriously, and we're worried 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:45.539 about that being shredded. So I'm proud to be 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:48.619 part of this team, one of the hosts, and I think 00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:49.940 we're going to interview some very interesting 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:52.220 people, and we're going to talk to them about 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:55.079 their experiences, and hopefully we can educate 00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.299 the public a little bit and turn down the angriness 00:31:58.299 --> 00:32:00.359 that we see on social media and other places. 00:32:01.390 --> 00:32:04.410 Yeah, John, just piggybacking on that, you know, 00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:06.829 in addition to looking externally around the 00:32:06.829 --> 00:32:10.329 world, I want to look right in my neighborhood. 00:32:10.410 --> 00:32:13.329 You know, I feel like one of my important responsibilities 00:32:13.329 --> 00:32:18.170 when I was in government was really being a receiver 00:32:18.170 --> 00:32:25.250 of public concern and public objection and impact 00:32:25.250 --> 00:32:27.950 to the Department of Homeland Security's policies, 00:32:28.210 --> 00:32:31.180 procedures, you know, activities. And I feel 00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:33.579 like my role on this podcast is going to be in 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:36.519 part to tap into that voice of the people, to 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:41.500 tap into communities who may be targeted by what 00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:44.160 the administration is doing. And again, showing 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:48.099 why that's not somebody over there, but it's 00:32:48.099 --> 00:32:51.960 us. It is part of that impact on the social compact 00:32:51.960 --> 00:33:00.910 that we all subscribe to as citizens. national 00:33:00.910 --> 00:33:02.630 security, civil rights, and civil liberties. 00:33:02.869 --> 00:33:05.869 And it's just an honor to do this with all of 00:33:05.869 --> 00:33:10.289 you. And I want to echo that. We are so looking 00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:13.390 forward to collaborating together. Some of us 00:33:13.390 --> 00:33:15.509 knew each other before others didn't. And we're 00:33:15.509 --> 00:33:18.329 really looking forward to having robust conversations 00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:21.630 with our guests and with you. We do want to hear 00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:24.410 from you. You are important to this conversation. 00:33:24.670 --> 00:33:27.309 This is not about the four of us. sitting in 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:29.549 a room somewhere and talking to people that share 00:33:29.549 --> 00:33:32.730 our experiences. We want everyone to be a part 00:33:32.730 --> 00:33:35.190 of this. And I am honored to be sitting here 00:33:35.190 --> 00:33:38.950 with three amazing guys. And I think we've got 00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:42.289 a great number of podcasts coming up and we're 00:33:42.289 --> 00:33:44.809 looking forward to the future with all of you. 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:49.240 One of those podcasts that Lauren just mentioned 00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.119 will be my interview with our director of the 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.859 steady state, Steve Cash. I've known Steve for 00:33:54.859 --> 00:33:57.619 more than 25 years, a distinguished attorney, 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.259 a distinguished civil servant. He actually worked 00:34:00.259 --> 00:34:03.079 with me at the Central Intelligence Agency as 00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:06.819 an operations officer and is going to explain 00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:12.900 why more than 360 senior members. of the national 00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:15.619 security organizations in the United States are 00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:18.460 so concerned that they've joined the steady state. 00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:24.280 So please join us in our future podcasts. Again, 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:27.719 this is John Seifer, Peter Mina, and Lauren Anderson, 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.880 and I'm Jim Lawler, the Steady State Sentinel, 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:37.099 still standing watch. Thank you for listening 00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:40.800 to the Steady State Sentinel podcast. Don't miss 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.880 out on more insights and exposés from America's 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.400 premier global security experts. Also, subscribe 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.440 to our Substack at substack .com slash at SteadyState1 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.599 and follow our social media and join us right 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:57.320 here next week for another exciting edition. 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.960 The Steady State is a nonprofit organization 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.960 working to sustain our democracy and national 00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.750 security. Join us and support our mission by 00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:10.909 visiting www .the steady state .org.