WEBVTT

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Hello, in the Crown of Aragon 639 years ago,

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it was March 29th, 1387. My name is Jonathan

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Seyfried. I'm a PhD candidate in history at the

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University of New Mexico, and this is the Historian's

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Notebook, a podcast about how history gets made.

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Season one is titled Molt Cara Companyona. We're

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looking at a document from each day of the first

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year of the reign of King Joan I of Aragon and

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Queen Violant de Bar. Let's begin today's

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document. Today we have another document from

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Violant. It's from her more businessy register,

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the Commune et Curie. And before we get into

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it, it's got a lot of interesting aspects. I

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do want to touch base about the AI usage that

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I'm experimenting with. using OpenClaw and having

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an AI agent do some of the uploading and transferring

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of transcriptions from Gemini to Claude. So it's

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proceeding along. It's got its downsides, that's

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for sure. So let me explain. Well, it's got its

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tremendous upsides. So I tested it out. for one

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register and had it run overnight and it went

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really well in the sense that I was able to get

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some output that I can search and I did a couple

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full text searches and I was able to find some

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interesting things. So the problem is that the

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Gemini part of the process just didn't happen.

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So there's some kinds of restrictions on usage

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that this sort of thing really runs up against

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because what I'm asking to have done here is

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a pretty intensive task, a lot of tokens as they

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say, because the AI Well, the large language

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model has to analyze the image file, find the

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letters, do the paleography, produce a transcription.

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That is asking a lot. It's not the same as having

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an AI agent just manage your calendar for you

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or send some emails. Which, by the way, I would

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not advise doing at this point. um because i

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don't know i just think you should sort of know

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what's going on i don't know maybe i'm just not

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thinking of that in the right way and someone

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can help me understand why that would be a good

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thing to do anyway so i'm really hitting usage

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limits a whole lot and in the second register

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that i'm trying this out with i have to essentially

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have the AI agent the open claw on this machine

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that I'm using delay its requests to Gemini,

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so Basically it has to and I'm not the one that

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thought of that so the open claw agent checked

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what was going on with Gemini and found that

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even though I have signed up for the level of

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service that you pay for, that there's just these

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universal usage limits that this kind of task

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makes it so that you can't do it at the speed

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that it can be done from the agent's point of

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view. So the agent is changing its workflow so

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that instead of sending things to Gemini at the

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speed that it can, it's basically adding in a

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30 second pause between every single document.

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And then that will hopefully comply with the

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usage requirements that Gemini has. I feel like

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in five years time, people will look back at

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this and just kind of chuckle. Well, if there's

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not an AI apocalypse between now and then. But

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if we're still around in five years time, people

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will look back at this and chuckle because these

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usage limits are of course... going to disappear

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as capabilities increase over the next couple

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years. I would be quite shocked if this sort

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of problem would occur after five years of further

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development. Alright, so that's one issue where

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I have not yet successfully replicated my exact

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workflow with open -claw running things because

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of that Gemini usage limit. But Claude is able

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to move at that speed. It is just costly. So

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basically the price that I paid for the first

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register that I did this with from start to end,

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it was about $50. so like that's not going to

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be happening for all of the registers that contain

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content from 1387. I think I'm just going to

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be picking five registers, and still that's a

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chunk of change right there. So the cost barrier

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is significant right now, and I have to make

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some choices because I don't have institutional

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funding for this, and I guess that's something

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I should look into, but that takes a lot of time

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to figure out. All right, well anyway. So those

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are the limitations, the usage limits, and the

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time. So we're going to see what happens with

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this next round when we have OpenClaw building

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in a 30 second pause in the way that it interacts

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with Gemini, it'll probably help to manage things

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with Claude also. But let me talk about the quality

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of the output for a moment, because, well, for

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today's document, I did what I have been doing

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for the last couple weeks, which is I've uploaded

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it to Gemini, had Gemini do a transcription,

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then I upload the image of the document to Claude,

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and I have Claude do a transcription, and then

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I take what Gemini did and I feed that into the

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Claude chat and say reconcile these. Now today's

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document is in Latin. and it's a little bit more

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challenging because, well, I don't know, sometimes

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I get a feeling like the language difference

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doesn't really matter to them too much, but maybe

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the paleography in this one is a little bit more

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difficult. It doesn't, as I'm looking at it,

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it doesn't strike me. I guess there's more abbreviations

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when they're writing in Latin, actually. More

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of a diversity of abbreviation in the Latin documents,

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I think I'm noticing. So I think that's part

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of the issue. and possibly this particular scribe

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is challenging. He's not good old Bartolomeo

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Sirvent. Oh, Bartolomeo Sirvent is my favorite

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scribe, I think. No, this is Andres Granelli,

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who we've had a couple times before. So both

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Gemini and Claude struggled mightily with this

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one, and I actually thought that the product

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that I got after Claude reconciled what Gemini

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had done was so problematic and the document

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was short enough that I just went in and I typed

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in my own transcription. And I mean, I'm not

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good enough to have found everything perfectly,

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but I did enough to be able to make some breakthroughs

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on certain words that had been stumping everybody.

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Like in the fourth line, there's the second word

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it's got a pro abbreviation and then a little

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like looks at first you look at it and you think

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it might be a v and then you realize oh that's

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an x but i didn't quite get to the x i really

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i feel now that i'm looking at i'm like come

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on i really should have understood that that

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was an x and for some reason i was just not wanting

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To go that route when I was looking at it before

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I can't quite figure out what I was thinking

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because it is Pro and then X with a macron and

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above which would make sense to expand is Proxima

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so that line Doesn't seem to have anything about

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time but if you go back to the end of line three

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you've got the word dia day so something like

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the sixth day after and then some kind of form

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of domina or dominica proxima or it could actually

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be the sunday the sunday because what we have

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that would be interesting if that if that first

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word of line four is actually the word for sunday

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like domingue so uh that's super interesting

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i think it is now that i'm working it out because

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the fourth word of line four is quasimodo and

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when i hear quasimodo i immediately think of

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the hunchback of notredame and like the disney

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version that I saw when I was younger, but of

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course it's based on a novel by Victor Hugo.

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And there's a character named Quasimodo in there.

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I think in both of those I have not read the

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novel. Anyway, that is very misleading because

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this is not about the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

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Actually, what I learned today because of Well,

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I think also Gemini picked up on this. I can't

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quite remember, but at least one of the chatbots

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understood that Quasimodo was potentially actually

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the name for a holiday. The Sunday following

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Easter Sunday, one of its names is Quasimodo.

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And that's because the word Quasimodo means something

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like that's like newly changed. And there's something

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about like the baby Jesus newly changed. I don't

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know. I didn't get into it too much. I'll put

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in the Wikipedia page. I'm being super lazy about

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that. All right. So that is just one example

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of how I was able with my intervention to get

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past something that Well, and the chatbots helped.

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We worked together. We worked together. It was

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a real, you know, Ethan Mollick has his book about

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AI, which I highly recommend. I'll put in the

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bibliography for this page. The title is Co -Intelligence,

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and this is absolutely an instance of a co -intelligence.

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So that's the update with AI. And if you haven't

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noticed already, this podcast is almost like

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has like a shadow podcast in it and You know

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the the you know the shadow podcast is a journal

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of how AI has developed in the months that I'm

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looking at these documents and we're adding to

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that as We try our AI agent and we'll see what

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happens but all of that is to say that even when

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the AI agent is able to run an entire register

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of images through Gemini and Claude and to replicate

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what I do, it's still missing that step that

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I used today, which is to notice that the transcription,

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for whatever reason, was particularly low quality

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and to intervene before... the final thing. I

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can still intervene as I'm looking at these things

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later, but just think about the implications

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for what I'm trying to do, something like a full

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text search for letters about certain things.

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So it's just a reminder that if I'm going to

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be searching the big data that comes out of what

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the AI agent, what the AI agent generates, I

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need to be searching for different things in

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different ways and not just one little search

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and saying, oh, nothing came up, that must be,

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and it's not there. Nope, nope, nope. It's gotta

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be treated as like a rudimentary data set and

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not anything like a critical edition. All right,

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let's talk about this document. This document

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is an example of interfaith context. So Violant

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is telling the addressee, who appears right in

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that first line, Cresques Bonafos. Crescques is

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a pretty common Jewish name, and in fact, that

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name came up. I don't know if it's a family relation

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or just a coincidence, but in the letter from

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Joan about the map, the Catalan Atlas, the Majorcan

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school of cartographers had the Cresques family,

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the father, son, and probably others who were

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cartographers there. But I don't see that there's

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any connection to this particular Cresques in

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today's document, because this person lives in

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Figueres. Now I'm pretty sure we're talking about

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Figueres. The third from the last word of line

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one has the two Fs, which clues you in that it's

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a proper name, and it's got F -I -G -I -I -S

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as the spelling, and that diagonal stroke above

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the word I think is like the dot on the I. I

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don't think that there's an abbreviation. I think

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that the Latin name for Figueres just doesn't

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have the R. but I'm not entirely sure. The chatbots,

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that's what they came up with too, that it's

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Figueres. We're going to go with that for now,

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but I still want to say that's provisional. And

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the word before de Figueres or de Figuis is Iudei,

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actually. So he's being identified as a Jew of

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the town of Figueres. And then what's really

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interesting is that really quick into it on the

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second line we see that there's been a supplication,

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some kind of petition, and the fourth word is

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regino. I think that means that it was a supplication

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to the queen. And then we have UX and then t

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-u -e. And the macron over the u -x is very faint,

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but it is there. So this is uxore tuae, your

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wife. And then we've got some adjectives afterwards,

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paupis et miserabilis. So she's poor and miserable.

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So something has gone wrong with this marriage

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because the wife of Cresques Bonifos has made

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some kind of supplication to the Queen. And the

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chatbots were thinking that the name of the wife

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is Regina. I do not think so. I don't think so.

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I think that's dative, the Regino, and that it

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means that the supplication was for or to the

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Queen. And so basically the letter is mandating

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that Crescas Boniface on the sixth day after

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Quasimodo shows up to Barcelona and answers this.

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And they're gonna work it out. And they're gonna

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get some justice. And I think that's... pretty

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much what it amounts to. There's some other intriguing

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words in this letter that I'm quite, I'm not

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quite sure how it all fits together. And I think

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the paleography prevented the chat bots from

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getting like a really great translation of this

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into English. But I think that this is absolutely

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fascinating that we have the queen getting involved

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in a complaint. about a husband being in that

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complaint has been submitted by the wife and

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that this is a Jewish couple. And so I think

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this is super interesting. There's another instance

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that has come up in the historiography that this

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reminds me of, and it's in the latest book by

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Marie Kelleher, The Hungry City. and Marie Kelleher

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tells the story of Bonadona, who was also a Jewish

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woman who used the legal system to get justice

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against a husband. And so I think this is a super

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interesting echo of that because the episode

00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:54.710
that Marie Kelleher talks about occurred earlier

00:19:54.710 --> 00:19:58.289
in the century in a different a different monarch.

00:19:59.269 --> 00:20:00.809
And well, I don't even know if that one went

00:20:00.809 --> 00:20:05.630
to as high as the king or queen, actually. So

00:20:05.630 --> 00:20:08.569
here, I mean, they're going all the way to the

00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:14.349
chief legal authority, since this is in Violant's

00:20:14.349 --> 00:20:17.470
portfolio. So it's super interesting, and I really

00:20:17.470 --> 00:20:22.009
want to know what happened here. And this is

00:20:22.009 --> 00:20:26.670
where, you know, my progress using the AI agent

00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.859
can come in, because once this is improved, and

00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:36.000
once the cost comes down, there's so many records

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.700
in the Archive of the Crown of Aragon, not just

00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:42.259
the letters from the royal family, but all kinds

00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:45.759
of civic records, and then there's other in the

00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.150
same kind of paleography, there's the same kind

00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:52.049
of script, there's other records from other archives,

00:20:52.049 --> 00:20:55.549
and to make them full -text searchable, one day,

00:20:55.890 --> 00:20:58.789
maybe not too far in the future, I would be able

00:20:58.789 --> 00:21:02.990
to go in and do a search for Cresques Boniface

00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:08.329
and find out more about what was happening here,

00:21:08.329 --> 00:21:11.690
because in its usual form we have a letter that

00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:13.789
doesn't really state specific things. It's all

00:21:13.789 --> 00:21:19.099
just, you know, the case. or the complaint, right,

00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:24.079
or the supplication. All right, thanks for listening

00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.059
to this episode of the Historian's Notebook,

00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:31.480
season one. Molt cara companyona. If you are

00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:33.519
leaving with more questions than you arrived

00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.119
with, I've done my job. Remember, the motto of

00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.660
the Historian's Notebook is dissatisfaction guaranteed.

00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.259
Visit the website. to see an image of today's

00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:51.759
document and additional show notes. The AI chat

00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.220
transcripts for today's episode I think are going

00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:56.380
to be really interesting to look at, the one

00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:59.839
from Claude in particular. There will be two

00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:02.640
that you can look at. And listen again tomorrow

00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.680
to hear about the next day in the first year

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.940
of the reign of King Joan I of Aragon and Queen

00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:13.799
Violant de Bar. In the meantime, take care.
