WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.480 Hello. In the Crown of Aragon, 639 years ago, 00:00:06.940 --> 00:00:13.699 it was March 11th, 1387. My name is Jonathan 00:00:13.699 --> 00:00:17.460 Seyfried. I'm a PhD candidate in history at the 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:21.280 University of New Mexico, and this is the Historian's 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:25.519 Notebook, a podcast about how history gets made. 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:30.140 Season 1 is titled Molt Cara Companyona. We're 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:33.020 looking at a document from each day of the first 00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:37.460 year of the reign of King Joan I of Aragon and 00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:41.640 Queen Violant de Bar. Let's begin today's 00:00:41.640 --> 00:01:10.359 document. Here we go, now Violant has her turn 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:16.519 to castigate governor Sancho Martinez, the governor 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:22.659 of Aragon. And in Violant's letter, which she 00:01:22.659 --> 00:01:24.760 writes the next day, I don't know why they don't 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:26.579 write them the same day, maybe there was like 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:30.040 a little bit of a delay where it's like... She 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:32.640 doesn't get to see what Joan wrote? I don't 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:34.439 know. Why is it? Why don't they write them on 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:37.120 the same day? It's really interesting. This has 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:39.200 come up again and again, where they're one day 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.579 apart, where Violant writes. I mean, it makes 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:44.359 it great for the purposes of my podcast, because 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.480 then I don't have to, like, pick one. But it 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.239 is just kind of mysterious to me why they're 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:54.879 not writing on the same day, when obviously they 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.299 are talking about this topic with each other. 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:05.099 on that day. Oh my gosh. Okay, so this is from 00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:09.259 March 11th, and it starts off kind of the same 00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:12.840 way. So it's pretty clear to me that Violant 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:17.340 saw how Joan decided to open up the topic. 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:21.439 And so Violant is going to use the same few 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:27.599 words at the opening. Governador, molt som marvellade. 00:02:39.509 --> 00:02:44.550 Okay, so anyway, it starts out by again saying, 00:02:45.129 --> 00:02:48.750 we are astonished. We have marvels about this. 00:02:49.349 --> 00:02:56.919 And then we get into the juice. So here's a translation 00:02:56.919 --> 00:03:01.099 that is really largely done as a result of my 00:03:01.099 --> 00:03:05.479 AI process. So just as a quick refresh on that, 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:10.219 I first have Gemini do a transcription, and then 00:03:10.219 --> 00:03:12.879 I have Claude independently do a transcription, 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.620 and then I paste Gemini's transcription into 00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:19.900 Claude's, and then have Claude do a reconciliation. 00:03:20.060 --> 00:03:24.719 I do a couple of little corrections, and depending 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.750 on where Claude is getting stuck, and then I 00:03:27.750 --> 00:03:32.810 have Claude do a translation after a final reconciliation 00:03:32.810 --> 00:03:37.210 of the transcription seems to be generating actually 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:41.030 really, really good results. Not the kind that 00:03:41.030 --> 00:03:44.090 I can just say, oh, let's go publish it now as 00:03:44.090 --> 00:03:47.490 a transcription. No, I would want to make adjustments, 00:03:47.550 --> 00:03:51.229 control for things like word choice, tone, some 00:03:51.229 --> 00:03:54.349 of the syntax doesn't come out quite right, but 00:03:54.590 --> 00:03:57.009 for the purposes of the initial run -through 00:03:57.009 --> 00:03:59.569 of the documents, this is great. This is amazing. 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:02.289 This is cutting down the amount of time that 00:04:02.289 --> 00:04:05.169 it takes me to get a sense of what the document 00:04:05.169 --> 00:04:08.210 is saying. It's not the kind of thing that I 00:04:08.210 --> 00:04:12.550 can run with in terms of just taking what Claude 00:04:12.550 --> 00:04:18.949 outputs and putting it into some kind of argument, 00:04:18.949 --> 00:04:24.579 but it's pretty good. And, okay, there's... guess 00:04:24.579 --> 00:04:28.420 a critique, which is that it it prejudices my 00:04:28.420 --> 00:04:31.220 reading so that when I'm trying to decide how 00:04:31.220 --> 00:04:34.879 to translate these things I've already got this 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:39.120 version in my head that can influence How I'm 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:44.899 gonna think of it, but folks, you know for for 00:04:44.899 --> 00:04:49.430 my purposes It's not an issue in my mind. That 00:04:49.430 --> 00:04:53.470 is, you know, if I was really gonna put forward 00:04:53.470 --> 00:04:56.970 my own expertise as a translator of medieval 00:04:56.970 --> 00:05:00.610 Catalan or, goodness gracious, medieval Latin, 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:06.110 then yeah, that is a valid critique. But my purpose 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:10.209 here is to share with you how far I've gotten 00:05:10.209 --> 00:05:14.250 in my journey working on this for a couple years. 00:05:14.649 --> 00:05:18.810 so that you can have the sense of what the real 00:05:18.810 --> 00:05:23.310 experts are capable of doing, right? So my whole 00:05:23.310 --> 00:05:27.269 purpose with the Historian's Notebook is to open 00:05:27.269 --> 00:05:33.189 up this middle stage between beginner and expert, 00:05:33.889 --> 00:05:38.500 and to try to help explain what that journey 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:41.740 is, what is the difference between the beginning 00:05:41.740 --> 00:05:45.879 level and the expert level. And the introduction 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:50.180 of the large language model technology is allowing 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:55.740 me to explain that more effectively and in less 00:05:55.740 --> 00:06:00.120 time so that I have more time to do other things 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:04.439 like maybe spend a bit more of my time learning 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:09.389 about the music of the late middle ages so that 00:06:09.389 --> 00:06:11.470 when I get to more documents about the troubadours 00:06:11.470 --> 00:06:15.269 I can have a more informed perspective. That 00:06:15.269 --> 00:06:18.230 kind of thing. Goodness, I was about to just 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:22.050 read the translation, but I actually think that 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:24.720 it was good for me to digress a little bit. Here 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:29.360 we are. It's episode number 77 and I haven't 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:33.160 really talked about my process for a few episodes 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.139 and I like to always come back and repeat that 00:06:36.139 --> 00:06:41.379 and put the tag introductory on the webpage so 00:06:41.379 --> 00:06:46.019 that people can check in about what it is this 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:50.160 project is all about and for a moment take take 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.759 a step back and look at the bigger picture of 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:58.339 what the tagline of the podcast is all about, 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:02.399 how history gets made. Well, I'm using these 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:04.939 large language models as a crutch, as kind of 00:07:04.939 --> 00:07:08.740 a scaffold, as I get better at translating and 00:07:08.740 --> 00:07:11.819 understanding medieval Catalan, but just think 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:15.279 about all of the experts out there, and there 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:18.720 are Well, I don't know if we're really talking 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:20.959 about a number in the hundreds here, but there 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:25.120 are dozens of people that have really practiced 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:30.519 this for over a decade and are really good at 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.360 these translations and understanding the paleography. 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:39.329 So go read their books. Go seek out what they 00:07:39.329 --> 00:07:42.269 have generated in their scholarship, because 00:07:42.269 --> 00:07:47.810 that really is the authority. And I hope that 00:07:47.810 --> 00:07:50.350 someday someone will listen to this podcast, 00:07:50.589 --> 00:07:54.110 get inspired, and feel really passionate about 00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:57.370 really taking advantage of the opportunity of 00:07:57.370 --> 00:08:00.509 the abundance of the Archive of the Crown of 00:08:00.509 --> 00:08:04.949 Aragon. and looking at these documents, really 00:08:04.949 --> 00:08:09.389 developing the expert level understanding of 00:08:09.389 --> 00:08:13.069 the language and the paleography, and maybe run 00:08:13.069 --> 00:08:17.110 with this further than I have. That would be 00:08:17.110 --> 00:08:21.009 just a beautiful outcome. And if this is sounding 00:08:21.009 --> 00:08:23.389 exciting to you and you're like, yeah, that's 00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:26.470 me, goodness, let me know. I would love to hear 00:08:26.470 --> 00:08:29.139 that. You know, I've got a little contact me 00:08:29.139 --> 00:08:33.240 section on the website. So go there and let me 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.799 know that you're having that interest. And this 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:42.100 is a moment where I think it's easy to get interested 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:44.820 because we've got this governor getting back 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:47.659 to the document today. We've got this governor 00:08:47.659 --> 00:08:54.220 who is just like not following instructions from 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:59.610 the king. and the Queen. And so yesterday, we 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:02.750 heard Joan just lay into him and be like, we 00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:05.909 are going to make an example out of you that 00:09:05.909 --> 00:09:11.529 will serve as a terror to other people. Violant 00:09:11.529 --> 00:09:15.370 does not quite let out the threats all that much, 00:09:15.690 --> 00:09:20.330 but we get a little bit more of the legal case 00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:24.129 that they have against this governor. All right. 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:27.299 Listen to this. I'm gonna read out the translation. 00:09:27.700 --> 00:09:31.460 This is mostly supplied by Claude and I'll just 00:09:31.460 --> 00:09:34.379 kind of give it a little a little polishing here 00:09:34.379 --> 00:09:38.919 and there Okay, here we go Governor we are greatly 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.860 astonished and not without reason moved that 00:09:42.860 --> 00:09:46.279 in such great disservice prejudice and damage 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:51.980 to ourselves. You have delayed and continue to 00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:58.399 delay delivering to our possession the castle 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:05.700 and towns of Borja and Magallón to Sir Francesc 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.679 Ca Gerriga. That's one of the officials. high 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:14.100 up in Joan and Violant's administration in the 00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:18.519 treasury, whom we have sent to receive them in 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.700 our name, and to whom they pertain by certain 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:27.259 reasons and titles, and also you have withheld 00:10:27.259 --> 00:10:32.100 from the said Sir de Canales certain quantities 00:10:32.100 --> 00:10:37.649 of money that you have received. And likewise, 00:10:38.129 --> 00:10:42.289 by the said means of those revenues, emoluments, 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:46.970 and rights of the castle and towns, all this 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:53.769 you retain from our hands. You're withholding 00:10:53.769 --> 00:10:58.639 it from our hands by, listen to this, by diverse 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:04.240 contrived and specious reasons and you have no 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:08.100 foundation whatsoever in justice nor in reason 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:12.240 and therefore following what you owe and the 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.320 property of your oh propriety of your office 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:21.820 this amounts to contempt of the commands of the 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:27.259 lord king and ourself which we made to you regarding 00:11:27.259 --> 00:11:30.980 this matter and which you have should have promptly 00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:37.259 should have promptly obeyed and if you wisely 00:11:37.259 --> 00:11:40.559 consider that since we are your queen and lady 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:45.940 you ought not in your affairs or in mine to engage 00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:49.700 in such acts but rather to go by the straight 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:53.100 path and show yourself therein a good official 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:55.759 and an affectionate servant of the Lord King 00:11:55.759 --> 00:12:00.059 and ourself. Therefore, we reprehend you strongly. 00:12:00.860 --> 00:12:08.860 You are not worthy of reprehension, but also 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:14.720 of harsh and severe correction. We pray, wish, 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.500 and command you that all delays set aside, you 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:24.360 deliver immediately in reality and indeed to 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.159 the said Sir Francesc Ca Garriga in our name, 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:34.000 the said castle, and the towns above mentioned, 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:46.190 and to the said de Canales, all the goods that 00:12:46.190 --> 00:12:49.669 you shall have received and that is owed to us 00:12:49.669 --> 00:12:53.110 from the revenues and rights of the same, and 00:12:53.110 --> 00:12:56.490 this do not alter nor delay for any reason, for 00:12:56.490 --> 00:13:00.649 we certify to you that you would incur too great 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:04.889 a burden toward us, and you would Learn this 00:13:04.889 --> 00:13:07.549 when you experience it. So that's kind of the 00:13:07.549 --> 00:13:11.110 threat and and the translation there's a little 00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:17.570 wonky but But the it's a little idiomatic gran 00:13:17.570 --> 00:13:22.590 carrech. It's so hard to translate. So anyway Then 00:13:22.590 --> 00:13:25.549 it's the the dating, you know given in Barcelona. 00:13:25.549 --> 00:13:32.330 Oh my gosh This is just so out of control so 00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:37.129 basically Here's the thing, it's not like some 00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:41.409 loyalty to Bernat de Fortia or Sibilla de Fortia 00:13:41.409 --> 00:13:44.350 that seems to be at play here. It seems like 00:13:44.350 --> 00:13:47.509 this governor, Sanxo Martinez, is just like 00:13:47.509 --> 00:13:50.129 enriching himself. Like maybe he, well according 00:13:50.129 --> 00:13:53.009 to Violant of course, he just went in there 00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:55.289 and like grabbed a bunch of stuff and like took 00:13:55.289 --> 00:13:58.350 over or something like that. I don't even know 00:13:58.350 --> 00:14:01.429 because like if you're delaying in the confiscation... 00:14:01.629 --> 00:14:04.289 Is that the same as, like, taking it for yourself? 00:14:04.509 --> 00:14:07.830 I don't really think so. It's kind of hard to 00:14:07.830 --> 00:14:12.090 make out exactly what's happening, like what 00:14:12.090 --> 00:14:15.470 Sancho Martinez is doing, and how he's enriching 00:14:15.470 --> 00:14:20.409 himself. But he is up to some mischief, that's 00:14:20.409 --> 00:14:24.269 for sure. And you know what? This is Violant's 00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:28.210 point of view, right? Like, maybe from Sanxo 00:14:28.210 --> 00:14:30.970 Martinez's point of view, he's like, wait a second. 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.879 just because you are the new king and queen doesn't 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.200 mean you can just take all the property from 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.440 Bernat de Fortia and Sibilla de Fortia. Maybe 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.539 Sanxo Martinez actually is on the right side 00:14:46.539 --> 00:14:53.240 of the law on this one. Hey, you know, it really 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:59.360 could be, because it's very clear that Joan 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:04.070 and Violant are vindictive. Like the tone in 00:15:04.070 --> 00:15:06.649 Joan's letter from yesterday and then also like 00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:10.750 the day, like I think it's the day before Père 00:15:10.750 --> 00:15:13.950 dies, like it's like really early on. One of 00:15:13.950 --> 00:15:16.809 the first things that Joan does is takes all 00:15:16.809 --> 00:15:19.710 of Sibilla de Fortia's property and turns it 00:15:19.710 --> 00:15:22.110 over to Violant. Like it's one of the first 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:29.019 things. So these two, they have it in for Sibilla 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:33.059 de Fortia and Bernat de Fortia. So I could definitely 00:15:33.059 --> 00:15:38.879 see a possibility that Sanxo Martinez is actually 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:43.799 on the right side of the law, but he is not on 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.279 the right side of the chain of command, that's 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.600 for sure. Being on the right side of the chain. 00:15:50.259 --> 00:15:53.240 He's not following the chain of command with 00:15:53.240 --> 00:16:00.210 his new monarchs. Well, I hope for Sanxo Martinez's 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:06.730 sake that he goes and does what Joan and Violant 00:16:06.730 --> 00:16:10.009 want him to do, because the De Fortias, they do 00:16:10.009 --> 00:16:14.389 not have any power at all anymore. Oh, and what 00:16:14.389 --> 00:16:16.529 I wanted to say is that when they did have power, 00:16:16.750 --> 00:16:20.129 they really stuck it to Joan and Violant. 00:16:20.570 --> 00:16:23.470 Like, Sibilla De Fortia was always stirring it 00:16:23.470 --> 00:16:26.590 up, getting at Violant with all these like weird 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:29.990 accusations of her ladies -in -waiting being 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:33.049 like improper and having weird affairs and stuff. 00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:36.250 So, you know, I'm just saying that this was like 00:16:36.250 --> 00:16:38.330 a two -way street, so if you're starting to feel 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:42.490 some sympathy for Sibilla de Fortia and Bernat 00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:47.230 de Fortia, just know that they had... they were 00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:50.690 stirring things up and they were trying to... 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:56.899 push down and disrupt and undermine Joan and 00:16:56.899 --> 00:17:01.559 Violant for that whole duration of the time 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:07.819 since Pere started his relationship with Sibilla. 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:10.900 Well, and you can, oh gosh, you can be sympathetic 00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:13.059 to that and say, well yeah, she didn't have a 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:16.619 lot of power, she was of such lower status socially, 00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:22.880 but still, like, it was... I think really excessive 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.380 the way that I read the history, and it seems 00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:29.900 like others, such as Nuria Silleras -Fernandez, 00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:31.619 who wrote a really good article about Sibilla 00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:34.819 de Fortia, seems to kind of come down on the 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:38.420 side of like, yeah, this was like Sibilla starting 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:43.500 this stuff, and that if Sibilla hadn't been so 00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:50.559 mean to Violant, then this whole kind of feud 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:55.940 between them would not have developed. But again, 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.180 you know, this is open to interpretation, and 00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:03.859 I can totally see someone who wants to revisit 00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:07.839 this coming to a different conclusion, maybe 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.579 putting the blame for it more on Violant. Just 00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:13.299 not sure, though, because Violant... when she 00:18:13.299 --> 00:18:16.279 was up against Sibilla de Fortia before Pere 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.640 died, like, Violant didn't have as much power 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:25.279 as Sibilla de Fortia did. So, alright, I could 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.420 go back and forth on that for a little while, 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:32.380 but let's just leave it there for today. Gosh, 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:34.559 I want to know what happened to Sanxo Martinez. 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.119 Gosh, I hope I find out. Thanks for listening 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.140 to this episode of the Historian's Notebook, 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.660 Season 1, Molt Cara Companyona. If you are leaving 00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:48.720 with more questions than you arrived with, I've 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.039 done my job. Remember, the motto of the Historian's 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:58.200 Notebook is dissatisfaction guaranteed. Visit 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.880 the website to see an image of today's document 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.180 and additional show notes. That's where I'll 00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:07.500 put Sancho Martinez's fate, if I find out about 00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:11.059 it, and listen again tomorrow to hear about the 00:19:11.059 --> 00:19:14.619 next day in the first year of the reign of King 00:19:14.619 --> 00:19:19.619 Joan I of Aragon and Queen Violant de Bar. In 00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:21.380 the meantime, take care!