WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.120 Hello, in the Crown of Aragon 639 years ago, 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:12.619 it was February 22nd 1387. My name is Jonathan 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:16.679 Seyfried. I'm a PhD candidate in history at the 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.519 University of New Mexico. And this is the Historian's 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:24.980 Notebook, a podcast about how history gets made. 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:29.750 Season one is titled Molt Cara Companyona. We're 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:32.469 looking at a document from each day of the first 00:00:32.469 --> 00:00:36.909 year of the reign of King Joan I of Aragon and 00:00:36.909 --> 00:00:40.969 Queen Violant de Bar. Let's begin today's 00:00:40.969 --> 00:01:09.420 document. So yesterday I talked about using Google's 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:15.000 Gemini AI Chatbot and how I came back to it after 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.780 a while and discovered it had this really improved 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:25.019 quality when it came to understanding the Latin 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:30.280 in a document, but also with transcribing from 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.840 an uploaded image. So I really feel like I have 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:40.140 Got this sort of new amazing tool in my toolbox 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:44.870 now, and I'm just going to be using it. pretty 00:01:44.870 --> 00:01:48.390 much for every Latin document. But let me be 00:01:48.390 --> 00:01:52.430 clear, if I was intending to move forward with 00:01:52.430 --> 00:01:56.469 a career as a medievalist, if I was going to 00:01:56.469 --> 00:02:01.549 be focusing on medieval studies for the next 00:02:01.549 --> 00:02:06.030 25 years, then there's absolutely no way that 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:11.849 I would continue to use an AI chatbot as my go 00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:16.120 -to. I would really buckle down and get better 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:18.960 at Latin and get a lot more practice with it. 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:24.000 So the whole purpose of this podcast is to delve 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.719 into different areas of very far apart times 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:33.280 and places in order to demonstrate how experts 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:37.860 in those fields have accumulated a knowledge 00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.860 base of the history in these different times 00:02:41.860 --> 00:02:46.900 and places and then how I can use some of the 00:02:46.900 --> 00:02:51.719 tools that are now available such as the large 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:56.379 language models and other kinds of technology 00:02:56.379 --> 00:03:01.789 in order to really understand their expertise 00:03:01.789 --> 00:03:06.490 better and to try to come up with something that 00:03:06.490 --> 00:03:10.949 makes some kind of new insight all the while 00:03:10.949 --> 00:03:15.509 really appreciating that the true expertise comes 00:03:15.509 --> 00:03:20.210 from spending many, many years in each of these 00:03:20.210 --> 00:03:25.930 areas. So this season is Medieval Crown of Aragon. 00:03:26.409 --> 00:03:29.879 There will be other seasons where I will be very 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:33.199 upfront about how I am relying on the expertise 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:37.680 of others and if I were to stay in those particular 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:41.259 areas of history for about 20 years how things 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:44.539 would be different. So the historian's notebook 00:03:44.539 --> 00:03:48.319 is about getting started. It's about orienting 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:53.740 yourself as somebody who wants to make a contribution 00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:58.509 to our understanding of the past it's not about 00:03:58.509 --> 00:04:04.250 trying to assert expertise it's about recognizing 00:04:04.250 --> 00:04:11.389 expertise all right all that said i got a transcription 00:04:11.389 --> 00:04:16.180 from Gemini, that was pretty good. I did need 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:19.399 to make some really important corrections. And 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:23.740 if you look at the transcript from Gemini that 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:27.160 I've put on the webpage for today's episode, 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.620 you'll see that there were probably about 10 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:35.800 words total interspersed around this document, 00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:40.379 which is about, I would say, about 10 lines long. 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.560 and it could really change the meaning. There 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:50.740 were times when Gemini got the wrong ending for 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:54.600 a word, and it would dramatically change the 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.240 meaning of the sentence. But what I will say 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.500 is that the overall topic of the document, Gemini 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:05.920 was able to understand that pretty much from 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.949 the start. That even after I made my corrections 00:05:09.949 --> 00:05:13.410 to its transcription, it didn't really alter 00:05:13.410 --> 00:05:18.589 the overall intent. That kind of worries me because 00:05:18.589 --> 00:05:22.069 like how can you have so much difference in the 00:05:22.069 --> 00:05:26.129 document but then still come out with the same 00:05:26.129 --> 00:05:29.589 overall understanding? I think one of the answers 00:05:29.589 --> 00:05:33.370 to that is that these are very formulaic. So 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:35.449 the register we're working with today is one 00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:40.420 of Joan's registers it's the curiae register 00:05:40.420 --> 00:05:44.019 meaning it's the register of of the court or 00:05:44.019 --> 00:05:49.040 the the small section of people like committee 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.300 you could say who is in charge of processing 00:05:52.300 --> 00:05:56.139 a lot of the governance along with joan that's 00:05:56.139 --> 00:06:00.120 my current understanding of what would be indicated 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:05.230 by the placement in the the curiae register, 00:06:05.389 --> 00:06:10.870 and at the top of the document we have pro curia, 00:06:11.449 --> 00:06:15.889 for the curiae, for the court. So these are matters 00:06:15.889 --> 00:06:24.290 that are very routine in the sense that the bureaucrats 00:06:24.290 --> 00:06:28.470 who are operating along with Joan here, they've 00:06:28.470 --> 00:06:32.550 seen situations crop up like the ones that are 00:06:32.550 --> 00:06:36.129 covered in this register just hundreds and hundreds 00:06:36.129 --> 00:06:40.569 of times. And so they're really used to using 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:45.790 some stock phrases in order to handle the typical 00:06:45.790 --> 00:06:50.069 cases that come in. Now, how would I try to recognize 00:06:50.069 --> 00:06:54.350 something that's not typical? Well, I would definitely 00:06:54.350 --> 00:06:59.180 need more Latin expertise, I would need more 00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:03.540 expertise in all of the legal matters and kinds 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:06.540 of cases that would come up at this time and 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:12.220 get the king's attention. So I do not have the 00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:15.660 expertise required to understand if there's anything 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:19.800 strange or unusual in this particular document. 00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:24.699 What I do have, though, along with the help from 00:07:24.889 --> 00:07:31.170 Gemini is a very secure knowledge of the general 00:07:31.170 --> 00:07:37.290 topic and a certain knowledge of the place, and 00:07:37.290 --> 00:07:42.610 from there further research has revealed a bit 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:50.449 more of the context. So let me explain. The first 00:07:50.449 --> 00:07:56.319 two lines contain the names of Well, actually, 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:01.620 yeah, I think two names. And I did get tripped 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:05.899 up, and Gemini did too, with the word that follows 00:08:05.899 --> 00:08:10.180 Fidelibus. Because to me, it looks like it could 00:08:10.180 --> 00:08:15.480 be something like Nostris, but I feel like it's 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:19.060 actually the name of an office. But I'm really 00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:22.829 having a hard time. untangling the minims there 00:08:22.829 --> 00:08:28.589 like is that the letter m is there a v in the 00:08:28.589 --> 00:08:34.610 middle is the letter that's the third well i 00:08:34.610 --> 00:08:36.669 don't even know how many letters the one that's 00:08:36.669 --> 00:08:39.250 right before the the final letter the final letter 00:08:39.250 --> 00:08:43.629 is an s and it looks like it could be an i but 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:47.279 sometimes if you have an are right before the 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:52.240 s it can look like that so both gemini and i 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:57.460 are struggling with whatever that word is but 00:08:57.460 --> 00:09:02.080 then following the mystery word is a pretty clear 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:12.620 uh something like a petro or a petuo or a peruo 00:09:12.620 --> 00:09:17.879 and then a and what looks like a perera and so 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:22.460 then we've got et and then a very recognizable 00:09:22.460 --> 00:09:27.279 Raymundo and it looks like Raymundo has a bit of 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:32.259 a longer last name or there's like a little slash 00:09:32.259 --> 00:09:35.639 after what looks like vinos and then we've got 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.879 day and that could be more of Raymundo's last 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:42.879 name or it could actually be the start of some 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.899 kind of phrase um i think it's parochia of the 00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:53.039 of the parish of and i'm pretty sure about that 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:55.899 and i think gemini agrees so we've got two people 00:09:55.899 --> 00:09:59.799 in the first line but then we've got this parochia 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:04.179 and then it got really tough because i definitely 00:10:04.179 --> 00:10:07.019 could see sancti at the end of the first line 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:10.970 And then the next line, I had no idea what was 00:10:10.970 --> 00:10:16.230 going on. It was a very difficult paleographical 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:20.570 mystery because that, it turned out to be a letter 00:10:20.570 --> 00:10:25.549 A and then the letter X. And I just, I hardly 00:10:25.549 --> 00:10:30.409 ever see A followed by X. It's almost always 00:10:30.409 --> 00:10:35.590 an E followed by the X. I was just really thrown 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:39.769 off by this. And then we have a clear day after 00:10:39.769 --> 00:10:43.529 that AX word, and followed by that we've got 00:10:43.529 --> 00:10:47.970 a word that looked to me like Sardinia. It kind 00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:51.389 of started in the same way that you would spell 00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:55.669 Sardinia, the island. So I at first glance when 00:10:55.669 --> 00:10:58.370 I encountered this document, I was like, oh, 00:10:58.409 --> 00:11:00.789 it's something about Sardinia. but then look 00:11:00.789 --> 00:11:04.110 at the end of that word. It ends with a very 00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:13.350 clear e -o -l -a. Or is that a y -o -l -a? I 00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:16.649 think it's more like an e, but sometimes the 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:19.830 y's can come out like that. Either way, though, 00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:25.529 if you sound it out, it's yola. So sardiniola. 00:11:26.509 --> 00:11:29.909 And guess what? If I had grown up around Barcelona, 00:11:30.169 --> 00:11:35.529 I probably would have immediately connected that 00:11:35.529 --> 00:11:40.289 toponym to, well, it's not too far away, like 00:11:40.289 --> 00:11:45.990 the actual Catalan Cerdanyola. There is a town 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:48.990 that is kind of on the other side of the mountains 00:11:48.990 --> 00:11:52.159 of Barcelona, but like... pretty close like those 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.259 of you who are listening in albuquerque it's 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:56.440 kind of like talking about the east mountains 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:58.340 like you can you can get there you go through 00:11:58.340 --> 00:12:00.379 a pass and then you get there and people commute 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:05.259 from like you know edgewood into albuquerque 00:12:05.259 --> 00:12:10.019 all the time a little bit of albuquerque geography, 00:12:10.259 --> 00:12:12.179 and those of you who are listening in other places 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:14.100 probably don't really have a clue what I'm talking 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:18.559 about, but that's okay. So yeah, so basically 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:23.320 there's this this town called Cerdanyola, and 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.279 I was unaware of it because I did not grow up 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.740 around Barcelona and haven't really spent all 00:12:29.740 --> 00:12:32.379 that much time there, just visited a couple times. 00:12:32.860 --> 00:12:36.460 And so it was Gemini that made the connection, 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:42.470 and then was able to provide me with some starting 00:12:42.470 --> 00:12:46.470 points to look at some of the history around 00:12:46.470 --> 00:12:51.509 Cerdanyola around this time. And I did ask 00:12:51.509 --> 00:12:55.289 Gemini to connect its information to academic 00:12:55.289 --> 00:13:00.230 sources, but it does a poor job of that, in my 00:13:00.230 --> 00:13:04.549 opinion, like it just... If chat GPT is way better 00:13:04.549 --> 00:13:08.570 at telling you exactly where it got the information 00:13:08.570 --> 00:13:13.830 and I just think Gemini is a little bit like 00:13:13.830 --> 00:13:17.129 paltry on this like it'll give you an article. 00:13:17.779 --> 00:13:21.340 That doesn't exactly seem connected or it'll 00:13:21.340 --> 00:13:23.419 give you two articles and one of them is clearly 00:13:23.419 --> 00:13:26.360 about it The other one you're like what so I 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.340 open up these Articles and just do a keyword 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:33.600 search to try to figure out. All right Can I 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:38.639 find where in this article Gemini got the information? 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:43.600 And if I can find that then I will move forward 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.620 with it. And if I can't, then I just treat it 00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:52.549 as a provisional possibility. And Gemini was 00:13:52.549 --> 00:13:56.149 the one that really disturbed me with Hallucination 00:13:56.149 --> 00:13:59.490 just three months ago when I was working on a 00:13:59.490 --> 00:14:04.690 different project. So I am a little bit wary 00:14:04.690 --> 00:14:10.990 of some of Gemini's analysis, but I do know that 00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:15.450 the recent version of Gemini has gotten a lot 00:14:15.450 --> 00:14:21.220 of positive reviews. So, alright. Let's see, 00:14:21.379 --> 00:14:24.500 what did I find? What did Gemini find, to be 00:14:24.500 --> 00:14:27.100 more exact? What did I find when I checked Gemini's 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:30.559 work? That's probably the best way. That there 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:35.740 was some kind of dispute over jurisdiction of 00:14:35.740 --> 00:14:41.460 this place called Cerdanyola. And what was happening 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:47.950 was that there was a lord who had authority over 00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:52.169 this region as well as others by the name of 00:14:52.169 --> 00:14:57.490 Simó de Marimón. Simó, which is like Simon, Simó 00:14:57.490 --> 00:15:03.149 de Marimón had been fighting with Barcelona. 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:08.120 the municipality of Barcelona over a certain 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:12.600 kind of jurisdictional claim that the city of 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.840 Barcelona would make over nearby towns. That 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:23.720 kind of claim was called the Carreratge. The Carreratge 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:29.509 was derived from the word Carrer, which is like 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:33.110 the street. So if you had a street that connected 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:36.549 a town to Barcelona, a nearby town, Barcelona 00:15:36.549 --> 00:15:40.470 would say, look, this street, it connects, this 00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:44.370 pathway connects, and so you're now part of the 00:15:44.370 --> 00:15:48.950 city. And they would try to impose all the various 00:15:48.950 --> 00:15:55.870 taxation and jurisdictional things like the courts 00:15:55.870 --> 00:15:58.690 and who rules and who decides and stuff like 00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:03.350 that on these these areas. And so it seems to 00:16:03.350 --> 00:16:07.250 me like what has happened here is that Joan 00:16:07.250 --> 00:16:12.110 has now been called upon to make a ruling in 00:16:12.110 --> 00:16:16.610 the case of whether Cerdanyola should be handed 00:16:16.610 --> 00:16:23.350 over essentially from Simon de Marimón. to the 00:16:23.350 --> 00:16:26.690 city of Barcelona and of course Simon de Marimot 00:16:26.690 --> 00:16:30.570 is not wanting this and would would maybe be 00:16:30.570 --> 00:16:34.950 the complainant in this and and the purpose of 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:39.190 this document this is where I'm leaning on Gemini's 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:42.509 interpretation but I I can see where it got it 00:16:42.509 --> 00:16:48.330 because there is this mention of Duos Dias in 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.440 the fifth line. What has to be done in two days? 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:59.600 Well, it looks like Raymundo and Petro have to 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:05.180 show up and give testimony about certain facts 00:17:05.180 --> 00:17:09.940 regarding what's happening in Cerdanyola. and 00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:14.420 if they don't then they get fined a hundred florins, 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.839 which is a lot of money. So my guess is that 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:23.619 Petro and Raymundo are going to show up to the 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:27.920 Curia and give their testimony about what has 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:33.380 been going on. That is as much as I can say with 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:37.619 a degree of certainty about this. If this was 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:42.089 a little bit more connected, or maybe way more 00:17:42.089 --> 00:17:46.829 connected, to my primary research questions about 00:17:46.829 --> 00:17:52.349 Joan and Violant and how they established 00:17:52.349 --> 00:17:55.890 their reign as a cooperative project. To what 00:17:55.890 --> 00:17:58.049 extent was it a cooperative project? If I could 00:17:58.049 --> 00:18:01.309 kind of see some entry point for that I would 00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:05.410 go deeper with this, but at this point I don't 00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:08.000 see the connection, so I'm just going to note 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.960 it down, have all the information on the web 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.319 page that I'm creating for this episode, and 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.640 maybe something will come up later in one of 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.619 Violant's letters, and then I can connect it 00:18:21.619 --> 00:18:24.119 back. That has happened on this podcast, and 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.160 that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for, but 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:33.559 for now I feel complete with my process. for 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.059 this document, even though I do not feel complete 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:44.160 with my understanding. So that is, I think, a 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.299 really good demonstration of the approach of 00:18:47.299 --> 00:18:51.259 the Historian's Notebook overall, and it's one 00:18:51.259 --> 00:18:55.700 that, of course, will leave many questions open 00:18:55.700 --> 00:18:59.980 as we go through. But I think this episode is 00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:04.950 a really good one for taking a step back and 00:19:04.950 --> 00:19:08.529 looking at overall what is the purpose of the 00:19:08.529 --> 00:19:15.089 project and how do the new AI tools fit in to 00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:19.250 that project. Thanks for listening to this episode 00:19:19.250 --> 00:19:23.089 of the Historian's Notebook, Season 1 Molt Cara 00:19:23.089 --> 00:19:26.450 Companyona. If you are leaving with more questions 00:19:26.450 --> 00:19:30.410 than you arrived with, Well, I've done my job, 00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:33.930 because remember the motto of the Historian's 00:19:33.930 --> 00:19:38.970 Notebook is dissatisfaction guaranteed. Visit 00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:41.750 the website to see an image of today's document 00:19:41.750 --> 00:19:45.509 and additional show notes, including some very 00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:49.869 long transcripts of AI chatbot conversations 00:19:49.869 --> 00:19:54.559 with Gemini. and listen again tomorrow to hear 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.019 about the next day in the first year of the reign 00:19:58.019 --> 00:20:02.579 of King Joan of Aragon and Queen Violant de 00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:05.460 Bar. In the meantime, take care.