WEBVTT 00:00:10.890 --> 00:00:14.029 What is going on, friends? Welcome to my weekly 00:00:14.029 --> 00:00:16.789 mixtape, a show that takes the classic mixtape 00:00:16.789 --> 00:00:19.969 approach to building a modern playlist. I'm your 00:00:19.969 --> 00:00:22.789 host, Brian Colburn. And over the holidays, I 00:00:22.789 --> 00:00:25.690 was going back and forth with Patreon mixtaper 00:00:25.690 --> 00:00:29.170 Philip Bergman about HBO's incredible documentary 00:00:29.170 --> 00:00:32.350 series Music Box. And one of the episodes that 00:00:32.350 --> 00:00:35.149 came up was Happy and You Know It, which was 00:00:35.149 --> 00:00:38.359 all about children's music. And he mentioned 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:41.600 that a former TuneStyles guest, Lori Berkner, 00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:44.740 was featured in the documentary. And he brought 00:00:44.740 --> 00:00:47.380 up the TuneStyles episode we did with Lori about 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:51.740 her music and her rise to fame in the kindy scene 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:53.880 or children's music scene, for those of you that 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:57.060 are not familiar with that term. And I actually 00:00:57.060 --> 00:00:59.259 thought about that episode because it had been 00:00:59.259 --> 00:01:01.659 a while since I'd heard it. So I went back and 00:01:01.659 --> 00:01:04.609 gave the episode a listen. Now, this is. Actually, 00:01:04.609 --> 00:01:07.969 a very important episode in my podcasting career 00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:12.209 because it is the first guest interview that 00:01:12.209 --> 00:01:15.129 Jay and I did on TuneStyles. This is the first 00:01:15.129 --> 00:01:18.790 time we brought in a guest for just a pure interview. 00:01:19.310 --> 00:01:21.709 So there's kind of a piece of history with this 00:01:21.709 --> 00:01:24.409 episode. And when I clicked play, I actually 00:01:24.409 --> 00:01:27.829 was preparing myself to cringe because it had 00:01:27.829 --> 00:01:30.189 been a long time. And I feel like over the years, 00:01:30.209 --> 00:01:32.530 I've honed my interview style a little bit. But 00:01:32.530 --> 00:01:35.540 believe it or not. A lot of the topics we talked 00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:39.280 about are just as relevant today as when we first 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.680 recorded it. Something I've always tried to do 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.359 when it comes to sitting down with an artist 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.579 or a band for an interview, because I want this 00:01:46.579 --> 00:01:49.780 to be something that people can listen to years 00:01:49.780 --> 00:01:52.739 down the road and still get a lot of great information 00:01:52.739 --> 00:01:56.120 out of. And while I do sometimes talk about an 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:58.620 upcoming tour or an upcoming album, I try to 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:01.599 do it in the context of the career as a whole, 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.799 because I feel like the This Is Your Life style 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.540 interview with a musician is fascinating and 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:10.180 something that I love diving into with all the 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:12.699 guests that I've been lucky and fortunate enough 00:02:12.699 --> 00:02:15.139 to have through any of the podcasts that I've 00:02:15.139 --> 00:02:17.460 been a part of. Now, I'm sure there's some of 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:19.219 you out there that are wondering, well, my kids 00:02:19.219 --> 00:02:22.840 are out of the children's music phase, so why 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.060 should I listen to this episode? This is a fascinating 00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:29.039 story about how someone made a name for themselves 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:32.370 in a genre of music. And a lot of the topics 00:02:32.370 --> 00:02:34.729 we talk about in this episode can be featured 00:02:34.729 --> 00:02:37.610 under any genre of music for any style artist. 00:02:37.930 --> 00:02:40.629 So even if you're a listener without young children, 00:02:40.689 --> 00:02:42.689 I feel like there's a lot to take away from this 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:45.110 discussion. And it's something that I am so glad 00:02:45.110 --> 00:02:47.129 to be able to bring back and share with everybody 00:02:47.129 --> 00:02:50.509 once again on the heels of this HBO Max Music 00:02:50.509 --> 00:02:53.550 Box documentary, Happy and You Know It. And the 00:02:53.550 --> 00:02:56.389 series as a whole is fantastic, as over the holidays, 00:02:56.449 --> 00:02:58.370 I was able to check out the Counting Crows edition, 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:00.889 which is called Have You Seen Me Lately? And 00:03:00.889 --> 00:03:02.889 if you're a Counting Crows fan, I highly recommend 00:03:02.889 --> 00:03:05.930 that one. I recommend this series hands down 00:03:05.930 --> 00:03:08.389 hard stop. Even if you're not a fan of the artist, 00:03:08.590 --> 00:03:11.310 these episodes really dive into some amazing 00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:14.150 stories that are all music centric and music 00:03:14.150 --> 00:03:16.949 related. And I've gotten a lot of great entertainment 00:03:16.949 --> 00:03:19.150 and I've learned a lot of stuff out of it. So 00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:21.810 be sure to check the series out. But without 00:03:21.810 --> 00:03:24.229 further ado, if you like what you're hearing 00:03:24.229 --> 00:03:26.629 on my weekly mixtape and you have a suggestion 00:03:26.629 --> 00:03:30.810 for a future episode, please. Hit me up, myweeklymixtape 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:34.090 at gmail .com. You can hit me up on all the social 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:37.750 media sites at myweeklymixtape. You can use the 00:03:37.750 --> 00:03:41.169 contact page at myweeklymixtape .com. Or last 00:03:41.169 --> 00:03:43.490 but not least, you can join the Mixtaper community 00:03:43.490 --> 00:03:47.729 at patreon .com forward slash myweeklymixtape. 00:03:48.169 --> 00:03:50.550 If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify 00:03:50.550 --> 00:03:53.449 or YouTube and you'd like to help the show out, 00:03:53.509 --> 00:03:56.789 please leave a five star review or a comment 00:03:56.789 --> 00:03:59.669 saying what you enjoy about the show. That helps 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:02.849 other music fans discover My Weekly Mixtape and 00:04:02.849 --> 00:04:04.990 spread the word about what I'm trying to do here. 00:04:05.169 --> 00:04:07.969 And last but not least, if you'd like to check 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:11.849 out the back catalog featuring over 160 plus 00:04:11.849 --> 00:04:14.710 episodes of My Weekly Mixtape, you can do so 00:04:14.710 --> 00:04:19.709 over at My Weekly Mixtape. All right. So to the 00:04:19.709 --> 00:04:21.649 parents out there that have probably heard these 00:04:21.649 --> 00:04:24.329 songs one million times over the last week, actually, 00:04:24.430 --> 00:04:26.850 who am I kidding? One million times over the 00:04:26.850 --> 00:04:29.949 last day or to the older listeners out there 00:04:29.949 --> 00:04:32.310 whose kids have grown up and maybe remember these 00:04:32.310 --> 00:04:36.209 songs from their childhood or just remember listening 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:38.930 to children's music with their kids in general. 00:04:39.189 --> 00:04:42.170 This episode's for you. Enjoy this sit down with 00:04:42.170 --> 00:04:46.579 the one and only Lori Berkner. Lori, thank you 00:04:46.579 --> 00:04:48.660 so, so much for joining us. We're so excited 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:51.259 to have you on. Thanks. It's great to be here. 00:04:51.459 --> 00:04:54.300 We were talking a little bit offline before we 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:57.220 started the show. I have five kids. My oldest 00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:01.000 just graduated college this weekend. And my middle 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.300 two kids, 13 and 12, and they grew up on you. 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:06.680 And my five -year -old and my three -year -old 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.660 know who you are. My son, Edik, is a huge fan 00:05:09.660 --> 00:05:11.779 of dinosaurs, and he loves We Are the Dinosaurs. 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:14.379 It's his favorite song. And so we're, you know, 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.160 we're just really, really excited to bring this 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.579 aspect of things to kind of the parents out there. 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:21.800 Right. Because one thing that a lot of us as 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:26.139 parents deal with is trying to find music that 00:05:26.139 --> 00:05:29.019 our kids can enjoy that doesn't torture us on 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:32.600 very long car rides. Right. And one thing from 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:34.920 the first time my wife introduced my wife as 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.759 a 20 year preschool teacher, and she's the one 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.100 who introduced our children to your music. And 00:05:40.100 --> 00:05:43.389 I said, wow, this I could dig this. The music 00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:46.529 is catchy and I know it's aimed for kids, but 00:05:46.529 --> 00:05:48.910 I don't feel that way. Is that the kind of thing 00:05:48.910 --> 00:05:51.910 that you get from a lot of parents? I feel lucky 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:56.189 to say yes, that I do. And I think a lot of what 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:58.810 I'm thinking about also when I'm writing music 00:05:58.810 --> 00:06:01.629 is what would I be happy listening to? You know, 00:06:01.670 --> 00:06:03.610 I mean, I know a lot of people who do kids music 00:06:03.610 --> 00:06:06.649 feel that way as well, but it is, I think there's 00:06:06.649 --> 00:06:08.970 a real balancing act to figuring out how to do 00:06:08.970 --> 00:06:12.000 that. and still make music that the kids actually 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.959 also want to listen to, right? So it's finding 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:17.560 that intersection. In some ways, it's a very 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:20.160 thin intersection. But in other ways, I think 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:24.500 because a lot of the things that kids find interesting 00:06:24.500 --> 00:06:27.720 and relevant can be so universal, it can also 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.199 be a really wide range, at least in terms of 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.079 topics and stuff. And then you just kind of have 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.779 to figure out how the music will connect to both 00:06:35.779 --> 00:06:39.529 age groups, really. Now, in learning about your 00:06:39.529 --> 00:06:43.829 bio and in your upbringing in music, I learned 00:06:43.829 --> 00:06:47.550 that you lived in Princeton, New Jersey. There 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.230 must be something in the water for music between 00:06:50.230 --> 00:06:53.029 Trey Anastasio from Phish, John Popper from Blues 00:06:53.029 --> 00:06:55.509 Traveler, Chris Barron from the Spin Doctors, 00:06:55.649 --> 00:06:58.649 and yourself. There must be something going on 00:06:58.649 --> 00:07:02.449 in Princeton. I think it was, I mean, Trey was 00:07:02.449 --> 00:07:05.779 not our year, but Chris and Popper were. same 00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:09.300 like we spent well popper actually came to princeton 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:11.759 high school i think i can't remember if he was 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.439 a sophomore but anyway we all graduated oh my 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.300 gosh what a musical class that like i wonder 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:19.980 which one of you guys in the yearbook had most 00:07:19.980 --> 00:07:21.959 likely to musically succeed because that would 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.899 be i think mine was something about like laughing 00:07:25.899 --> 00:07:29.139 too much i forget you can never laugh no such 00:07:29.139 --> 00:07:32.600 thing So can you talk about how you started performing 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.060 in children music and how it evolved from playing 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:37.939 music that was aimed for adults and kind of how 00:07:37.939 --> 00:07:40.379 you transitioned into that and how that kind 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:44.480 of all came to fruition? Sure. So, I mean, for 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.959 a while when I graduated from college, I was 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.110 writing. music and kind of playing around Manhattan 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:53.670 in cafes and stuff doing a singer -songwriter 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:58.269 thing and I also and I played in had a band eventually 00:07:58.269 --> 00:07:59.990 and I played in some friends bands and then I 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:02.670 joined a couple different like answered an ad 00:08:02.670 --> 00:08:05.149 in the back of the paper kind of bands where 00:08:05.149 --> 00:08:08.329 I joined a um an all -female cover band for a 00:08:08.329 --> 00:08:11.930 while Lois Lane Lois Lane yeah because she don't 00:08:11.930 --> 00:08:20.019 need no superman no So it was that was very like 00:08:20.019 --> 00:08:22.480 that was a real learning experience for me about 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.279 going and playing a lot of shows on Long Island. 00:08:26.379 --> 00:08:29.420 It started at 11 at night and ended at three 00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:33.460 or four in the morning. Wow. I would drive home 00:08:33.460 --> 00:08:37.460 like reeking of cigarettes and carry my amp up 00:08:37.460 --> 00:08:40.299 three or four flights of stairs. fall on a bed 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:43.340 and at that point i had already been when my 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:46.059 first year out of college i was i got a job as 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:48.919 a preschool music teacher for just like a part 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:52.679 -time thing and i was had sort of transformed 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:54.919 that into playing birthday parties on the weekends 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:59.299 too. So I would be asleep around 6 a .m. and 00:08:59.299 --> 00:09:03.500 then I would have to be somewhere by 10 to do 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:06.519 a kid's birthday party and hopefully have showered. 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:12.919 Wow. So I did that for a while and I learned 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:17.600 a lot being in Lois Lane. I played electric mostly 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:21.259 in that band and there was a lot of Just figuring 00:09:21.259 --> 00:09:24.259 out how to be a lead player and how to sing for 00:09:24.259 --> 00:09:27.240 long periods of time in front of lots of people 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.720 or not very many people who weren't very interested. 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.799 Like that actually wasn't a bad way to get into 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:38.600 kids music. So then what I realized after a while, 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:41.620 though, was in my day job, I had been writing 00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:44.460 songs for the kids in the classroom. And that 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:46.600 was mostly because it was very hard to find. 00:09:47.059 --> 00:09:50.559 It was really hard to find music that. not only 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:52.980 did the kids like and that I didn't get sick 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:56.159 of singing, but that also directed them, that 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.419 like was also classroom management, because that 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:01.980 was my biggest problem. I got this job because 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:06.039 I liked kids and I liked playing music, but I 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:08.279 didn't have any background as a teacher. So I 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.740 didn't really understand how to manage a classroom. 00:10:11.179 --> 00:10:14.820 And one of the things that I realized after talking 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:17.620 to my predecessor there was the more that I put 00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:21.070 into the music. to direct them, the easier just 00:10:21.070 --> 00:10:23.490 everything would be. They would have more fun. 00:10:23.610 --> 00:10:25.710 They would know what to do. I wouldn't spend 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:27.830 my time kind of chasing kids around the room 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:31.610 or yelling or being a disciplinarian or just 00:10:31.610 --> 00:10:33.889 feeling helpless and hopeless, which I did a 00:10:33.889 --> 00:10:36.429 lot. So once I had started writing the songs, 00:10:36.490 --> 00:10:38.330 when I was doing these birthday parties on the 00:10:38.330 --> 00:10:41.470 weekends, people started asking me for the songs 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:44.149 I had written to play those songs. And it was... 00:10:44.409 --> 00:10:47.409 I mean, honestly, just like really felt so good 00:10:47.409 --> 00:10:49.529 to be able to write music that people wanted 00:10:49.529 --> 00:10:51.789 to hear. I'd always wanted to do that. I had 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:53.750 my own bands doing that, but I would, you know, 00:10:53.750 --> 00:10:56.169 maybe get 30 people at some dive bar downtown. 00:10:56.669 --> 00:11:00.570 But this was like people were actually like coming 00:11:00.570 --> 00:11:03.450 and saying, hey, play Victor Vito, you know, 00:11:03.450 --> 00:11:07.929 and I thought, OK, so I wrote it for kids. But 00:11:07.929 --> 00:11:10.409 it seems like the parents kind of like it, too. 00:11:10.490 --> 00:11:12.509 And I like the songs. Otherwise, I wouldn't have 00:11:12.509 --> 00:11:16.029 written them. And it felt like it was the thing 00:11:16.029 --> 00:11:19.230 to follow. Like I was noticing this is working. 00:11:19.269 --> 00:11:22.590 And my other stuff, like I have to play in a 00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:25.769 cover band to make any money as a musician unless 00:11:25.769 --> 00:11:29.029 I'm doing kids music. So maybe I should just 00:11:29.029 --> 00:11:30.950 be doing more kids music. Maybe that's what I'm 00:11:30.950 --> 00:11:34.730 better at. And so I finally I just I left the 00:11:34.730 --> 00:11:36.990 cover band, left Lois Lane. I still did a little 00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:38.990 bit of my own stuff. That was I had a band called 00:11:38.990 --> 00:11:42.149 Red Onion for a while. But eventually I just 00:11:42.149 --> 00:11:44.919 ended up. The parties kind of morphed into concerts 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.080 for the kids. And I was recording the music I 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:50.279 had written and selling it at a few stores that 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:53.320 had kind of took a chance on me. And eventually, 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.899 like, I mean, it's sort of a longer story, but 00:11:55.899 --> 00:11:57.940 there were many things beyond that, like where 00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:00.740 someone heard my music who was starting the Noggin 00:12:00.740 --> 00:12:02.580 channel that became, you know, was a Nick Jr. 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.659 owned channel. I ended up getting a, you know, 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.580 being part of a show, Jack's Big Music Show, 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:12.039 because... It was crazy things like I there was 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:13.899 I did a bunch of birthday parties. Someone who 00:12:13.899 --> 00:12:16.399 had a birthday party. Should I be talking about 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.019 all this? You want to hear all this? Absolutely. 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:21.159 Yeah, this is fascinating. Someone who went to 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.360 a birthday party, got one of my CDs, took it 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.519 home, loved it, happened to be a line producer 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:31.360 at the Today Show, went to the I guess the executive 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.000 producer and said or not. I don't know who it 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.860 was, but whomever she was supposed to ask about 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:37.779 getting someone on. Yeah, that sounds about right. 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.759 Hey. Check out this kid's music artist. This 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.379 would be really cool. Why don't you do like you 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:45.860 could do a thing in the plaza and they could 00:12:45.860 --> 00:12:48.200 perform and people would come and it would be 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.419 a really cool segment. And that person said no. 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:54.000 And then that person lost their job. And a new 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.500 one came in, new like head of whatever came in. 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:58.539 And she went and she pitched again. I didn't 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.000 even know her. And she pitched me again. And 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.059 this person said, oh, I've been to those Upper 00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:05.019 West Side birthday parties where Lori Berkner 00:13:05.019 --> 00:13:08.120 plays. Sure, we can have her on this. I had also 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.159 done a couple like famous people, birthday parties, 00:13:11.299 --> 00:13:14.600 Madonna's kid and Sting's kid. Also, I know. 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.559 And I mean, now, well, is she in college? And 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.919 those parties, same thing. Like I was teaching 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.039 music on the Upper West Side. Those kids went 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.559 to classes there. They heard my cassette tape 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.340 being played like in the art room of the West 00:13:31.340 --> 00:13:33.519 Side Y where I was also the music teacher, even 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:35.299 though I didn't have them in my classes. It was 00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:39.139 all just sort of people. sharing the music. And 00:13:39.139 --> 00:13:42.100 when I ended up being on the Today Show, I told 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:44.279 that to the person who was starting the Noggin 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:47.039 channel when she said, so talk to me about like 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:48.779 things that have worked out really well for you. 00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:50.659 What's been happening in your life? And I said, 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:52.799 well, this was maybe a year later that I was 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.320 talking to her. I said, like a year ago, I got 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.279 on the Today Show and I started selling all these 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.000 CDs. Like apparently people went into Barnes 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.440 and Noble and like asked for me all over the 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.539 country. So Barnes and Noble's distributor called 00:14:05.539 --> 00:14:08.309 me at home and said, hi is this two tomatoes 00:14:08.309 --> 00:14:12.830 records for someone named laurie burkner and 00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:16.070 i'm like in my bathrobe in my one bedroom apartment 00:14:16.070 --> 00:14:19.190 going uh yeah you've reached two tomatoes records 00:14:19.190 --> 00:14:22.149 what how can i help you let me let me put you 00:14:22.149 --> 00:14:25.230 through i'm her assistant yeah well we need to 00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:27.090 order you know we want to start carrying her 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:30.070 albums in our stores but i mean i couldn't get 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:32.490 anybody on the phone before that i was like this 00:14:32.490 --> 00:14:34.950 alliance was the name of the distributor at the 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:38.200 time and They had a phone tree that led you to 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:40.299 another phone tree. I could never talk to a human 00:14:40.299 --> 00:14:43.139 being when I tried to. But then when people went 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:45.200 and started asking for my music in the stores 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.299 after the Today Show, right, so then they actually 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:50.600 called me at home. So things sort of built up. 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:52.620 And when I told the Noggin woman about that, 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:57.000 she said, her name was Amy Friedman. She said, 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.460 huh, you were on TV for 15 minutes playing like 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:03.309 a couple of your songs. And you started like 00:15:03.309 --> 00:15:05.549 people went into stores all over the country 00:15:05.549 --> 00:15:08.370 looking for them. Why don't we make a few videos 00:15:08.370 --> 00:15:13.029 with you? And so we did the one that was for 00:15:13.029 --> 00:15:14.909 Jack's Big Music Show when it was still a pilot. 00:15:14.970 --> 00:15:17.409 But then I made four other ones with her and 00:15:17.409 --> 00:15:19.350 she just started. They started playing them on 00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:22.169 Noggin. And kind of the same thing happened only 00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:25.549 like 10 times bigger when they started showing 00:15:25.549 --> 00:15:28.820 those videos of my songs on their channel. which 00:15:28.820 --> 00:15:32.879 doesn't even exist anymore. But so anyway, there's, 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.299 there's a lot to the story. I'm sorry. I keep 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:37.899 going on. That's believe me. I'm in awe. This 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.539 is just an, it's an amazing, like sheer determination. 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:45.200 Just do you do what you do? And eventually it 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.399 just, the right person gets ahold of the message 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.159 and runs with it. It's the dream that every musician 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:52.879 out there that's writing music thinks of. And, 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:54.779 and you were able to live it in so many different 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:57.259 ways. The thing that I find interesting about 00:15:57.259 --> 00:15:59.990 this. was the first time in reading your bio, 00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:03.049 I saw a word that I didn't actually know existed, 00:16:03.289 --> 00:16:07.389 and that was kindy rock. There has to be a philosophy 00:16:07.389 --> 00:16:12.350 behind that name. I actually think it came more 00:16:12.350 --> 00:16:15.649 out of people writing about kids' music than 00:16:15.649 --> 00:16:18.809 actually from the musicians themselves. I know 00:16:18.809 --> 00:16:21.870 that when I started, that word didn't, or that 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:27.149 phrase didn't exist yet. I think it really coincided 00:16:27.149 --> 00:16:30.870 with the rise of the internet, that people who 00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:34.309 wrote music for kids were suddenly able to reach 00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:37.250 a much broader audience. I mean, for me, like 00:16:37.250 --> 00:16:39.669 that day that I was, I'm going on a tangent, 00:16:39.750 --> 00:16:41.789 but I'll tell you why in a minute. So the day 00:16:41.789 --> 00:16:45.149 that I did the Today Show, like on Amazon, which 00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:48.370 was one of the places that you could buy CDs 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:52.370 at the time, right, online, all three of my albums 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.860 were in the top. five best -selling albums on 00:16:56.860 --> 00:17:01.779 Amazon not kids on Amazon like next to Van Morrison 00:17:01.779 --> 00:17:03.840 and I forget who else was like someone was very 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.480 popular at the moment and that was just for a 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.880 few hours that day but people were suddenly realizing 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.240 they could purchase music this way they could 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.880 distribute music that way I didn't have to get 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.299 signed to a record label I could start my own 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.259 because I could actually sell music directly 00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:23.559 to people. I could sell it out of my living room, 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:27.259 which is what I did for a long time. And when 00:17:27.259 --> 00:17:30.500 people who were trying to make it doing or make 00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:33.160 music for kids and get people to know about it, 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.299 instead of just like playing at a library and 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:39.339 selling 10 cassettes or 10 CDs at the end of 00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:42.769 their show, they were actually able. to share 00:17:42.769 --> 00:17:45.109 their music online, have people hear it, play 00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:46.769 it for their kids, their kids get hooked, people 00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:49.009 can buy it from them. And so suddenly there was 00:17:49.009 --> 00:17:54.150 this huge surge of really good musicians making 00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:57.569 music for kids. A lot of them already were making 00:17:57.569 --> 00:18:00.309 other music, but then they ended up having children 00:18:00.309 --> 00:18:02.529 and realized like, hey, there's not a lot out 00:18:02.529 --> 00:18:04.650 there that I want to listen to. So they started 00:18:04.650 --> 00:18:07.029 making it themselves and people found out about 00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:09.130 it because they didn't have to rely on a record 00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:11.539 label. to actually get that music out there or 00:18:11.539 --> 00:18:13.960 a radio station to play the music so that somebody 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.259 would hear it. Right. So that growth happened 00:18:17.259 --> 00:18:19.099 at the same time. And suddenly there was this 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:21.980 like independent group of independent musicians 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.279 making good music for kids. And that phrase can 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.900 be music came out of that. And I think you can 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:30.740 include artists like Lisa Loeb in that as well. 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:35.410 Yeah. And she had. A couple of records that she 00:18:35.410 --> 00:18:38.150 did here in New York. Right. They might be giants. 00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:40.130 They might have several children's albums. Bare 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:43.049 Naked Ladies had Snack Time. Right. So I definitely 00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:45.910 see where that is coming. Now, the part you were 00:18:45.910 --> 00:18:48.730 focusing on there that I found fascinating was 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:51.430 a lot about the indie label. I'm curious what 00:18:51.430 --> 00:18:55.279 the challenges versus the benefits. of owning 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.480 your own label are because there's obviously 00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.759 there has to be some challenges in there but 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.480 then there's there's benefits as well so i'd 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.380 like to hear both sides of the scale here yeah 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:11.099 i mean so originally i really did it for a couple 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:14.700 of reasons i guess one was just that getting 00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:17.180 signed there were two things one is getting signed 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:21.160 was hard when i did try to actually reach out 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:24.500 to labels. I remember, um, rounder records at 00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:26.400 the time was one of the only ones they had rounder 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.859 kids. Okay. Yep. And it was also something called 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:32.180 new sounds. There were only a couple of distributors 00:19:32.180 --> 00:19:35.279 slash labels that were really focused on kids 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.500 music. And I talked with them. before anything 00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:41.779 happened, before I had any kind of recognition. 00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:45.099 And they basically said, we think you're only 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:46.519 local. Like, we don't think you're actually going 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:48.559 to do any better than this. So we're not, you 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.359 kind of have a local following, but that's not 00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.640 going to grow. So we're not interested. The smaller 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:55.799 one, New Sounds never even called me back. And 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.000 then when things started happening, like I don't 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:59.720 remember if it was the Today Show or Noggin or 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:01.900 whatever, of course they were all calling me. 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.920 But at that point I realized, hey, I got this 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.380 far by myself. I was trying to get them to help 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:11.480 me in the beginning when I really had nothing 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.619 and I didn't need them. And all that's happening 00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:17.799 now is that they're saying they're going to take 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.720 a huge part of the money that I make off of each 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.299 CD. And I'm just selling them myself. Why do 00:20:23.299 --> 00:20:25.140 I need them? I don't even need them for marketing. 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:28.220 Like I'm finding my own. I did hire a publicist 00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:32.140 early on. That was actually. I think that was 00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:34.480 probably the smartest thing that I did. Like, 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.960 I mean, running my label was really like me and 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:40.579 a friend of mine who I knew, I had known since 00:20:40.579 --> 00:20:43.140 fourth grade, who was my other tomato of two 00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:46.920 tomatoes, Sarah Milstein. And she would come 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.680 over once a week on a Friday afternoon. She was 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.579 working freelance. I was like, look, I'll pay 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:54.240 you 50 bucks every week if you come over and 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.480 you made me accountable for my to -do list. And 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.180 maybe help me figure out what I need to do next. 00:21:01.299 --> 00:21:04.079 And because she was a good writer and selling 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.819 myself was like the thing I was really the least 00:21:06.819 --> 00:21:09.579 good at. I was terrified. I would like my stomach 00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:11.240 would get in knots when I'd think about having 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.980 to send a CD to someone to listen to. I just 00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:17.920 I didn't want to be reviewed mostly because I 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.779 was like, well, I'm writing this for the kids. 00:21:19.819 --> 00:21:21.599 So I have to send this to some like grown up 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.700 who's going to sit there and pick apart my music 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:26.000 that doesn't I don't want to do that. And she 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.220 would say, OK, you give me that. I'll mail them 00:21:28.220 --> 00:21:31.200 out and you do these other things, you know? 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:35.019 So, so that was mostly my business until she 00:21:35.019 --> 00:21:36.940 said like, Hey, you need to actually have a record 00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:38.420 label. You're starting, you're making albums. 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.000 You're starting to sell them. You have to keep 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.700 track of it. You have to like pay taxes. Laurie, 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:45.920 you did, you did the recording in your, in your 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.220 house, in your apartment, right? No, the recording. 00:21:48.339 --> 00:21:52.609 No. The first one. I did it at a friend's apartment, 00:21:52.809 --> 00:21:57.190 and he was a jazz musician who also kind of dabbled 00:21:57.190 --> 00:21:59.809 in recording. And this was before Pro Tools came 00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:03.730 out, the first four. My fourth album, we finished 00:22:03.730 --> 00:22:06.029 it on Pro Tools when it was just starting to 00:22:06.029 --> 00:22:09.470 come out. We Are the Dinosaurs was on one inch. 00:22:09.569 --> 00:22:11.869 All right. I was going to say, you went old school. 00:22:11.990 --> 00:22:13.710 You went with the reel -to -reels. So that means 00:22:13.710 --> 00:22:16.470 we should be expecting a vinyl release soon using 00:22:16.470 --> 00:22:22.359 the analog sound? No joke. wait oh that's amazing 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:27.200 i love it psyched i love it i mean and it's funny 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.680 to say i went old school like it wasn't old school 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.180 that's all that there was that was school i was 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:37.559 like chromium dioxide um when it was like he 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.900 this he lived in weehawken and had a part of 00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:44.839 the bottom floor of his apartment he had turned 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.319 into a little studio and I would go there and 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:50.539 like sing and play at the same time. I mean, 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:56.660 like it was so guerrilla and grassroots. But 00:22:56.660 --> 00:22:58.740 that's kind of the entrepreneurial part of all 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:01.359 this, which I find absolutely fascinating is 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.900 because you didn't just go up and play and have 00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:06.240 this whole team behind you. You were the team 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.319 besides your partner with the label. So the entrepreneurial 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:14.119 aspect of that is absolutely fascinating. Well, 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.279 so there was a little bit more of this story 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.420 to that. I, yeah, because I was teaching one 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:22.319 of my, I was teaching at a bunch, a few different 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.299 schools, but at the Westside Y, the person who 00:23:26.299 --> 00:23:29.799 was in charge of the programming there said, 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.400 you know, you keep saying that parents are coming 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:35.000 to you and saying, what are these songs that 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.240 my kids are singing? We don't know them because 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.559 I was writing them. And she was like, you should 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.170 record your music. And I would help you do that 00:23:44.170 --> 00:23:45.890 if you want to do that. And you could like sell 00:23:45.890 --> 00:23:48.769 it to the parents. And I said, okay. And I went 00:23:48.769 --> 00:23:52.170 away and I thought, how cheaply can I do this? 00:23:52.329 --> 00:23:54.549 And I, you know, this was a friend of a friend 00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:56.470 who had this recording studio. And I thought, 00:23:56.509 --> 00:24:03.130 if I can get them to give me $2 ,500 to record 00:24:03.130 --> 00:24:08.289 it, I'll, I'll make 500. What was it? Yeah. I'm 00:24:08.289 --> 00:24:11.529 doing the math, right? $2 ,500. Right. I'll make 00:24:11.529 --> 00:24:15.609 500 cassettes. And if I sell them all for $5 00:24:15.609 --> 00:24:18.809 a piece, that's $2 ,500. If they give me the 00:24:18.809 --> 00:24:21.529 2 ,500 and it only cost me 2 ,000 to make it 00:24:21.529 --> 00:24:23.569 and I sell all the cassettes, then I'll walk 00:24:23.569 --> 00:24:27.670 away with 500 bucks. And I'm like, I just brought 00:24:27.670 --> 00:24:29.450 that. I was like, this is my proposal. And she 00:24:29.450 --> 00:24:31.549 said, great, I'll give you the money. And as 00:24:31.549 --> 00:24:34.150 you pay me back, you know, the whatever it was, 00:24:34.190 --> 00:24:36.230 whatever I just said it, I ended up paying her 00:24:36.230 --> 00:24:39.720 back. And I, that doesn't work out though, does 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:43.759 it? Somehow I made $500 and I gave her money, 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.539 I guess. And I ended up selling them so fast 00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:50.259 that then I could make more of them, right? Like 00:24:50.259 --> 00:24:53.420 I had 500 and added another 500 to it. And I 00:24:53.420 --> 00:24:55.940 made 500 more cassettes and I sold all of those. 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.700 Like within a year, I had already sold a whole 00:24:57.700 --> 00:24:59.759 bunch of them because I was not only selling 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.200 them to the parents, but then people who are 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:05.200 hiring me to do birthday parties, they were saying, 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.440 Come and do my kid's birthday party. And do you 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.279 have something that we can use in like a goodie 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.519 bag or something? Oh, brilliant. So I didn't 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:14.700 have to bring a card or anything. I just brought 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:17.480 the cassette. Every kid at the party who wasn't 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:20.279 necessarily in my class would go home with my 00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.859 music. And then those parents would call me to 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:25.099 do their kids parties because their kids loved 00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:28.460 the song so much. So that was a lot of how the 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:31.190 early like. I mean, not well thought out, but 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:34.049 that was my entrepreneurial. Ladies and gentlemen, 00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:36.430 we are in the presence. If you are just joining 00:25:36.430 --> 00:25:38.470 us, we are in the presence of Lori Berkner, who 00:25:38.470 --> 00:25:43.230 can only be described as a genius. Yeah. Non 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:46.250 -thinking genius. So we talked a little bit about 00:25:46.250 --> 00:25:48.650 the vinyl resurgence. We kind of hinted at that. 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:52.349 We talked about CDs. How has streaming services 00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:55.750 and downloads and digital media kind of affected 00:25:55.750 --> 00:25:58.990 and impacted what? children's music songwriting 00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:03.750 has done and how that path impacted the kindy 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:06.289 rock yeah that's such a great question because 00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:09.670 it's been an amazingly roller coaster kind of 00:26:09.670 --> 00:26:13.539 an experience so i've been doing this well my 00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:15.640 first album that what do you think about i made 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.380 that in 1997 and i was you know writing music 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:20.539 a little before that it took me a few years before 00:26:20.539 --> 00:26:22.839 i made that first album so more than 20 years 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.740 and in that time obviously we went from cassette 00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:28.880 to cd to streaming and or digital download and 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:31.339 then streaming and people are still buying cds 00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:35.480 but there was a period where selling cds was 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.920 really what fueled my business because especially 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.329 because i was doing it myself, I had very little 00:26:41.329 --> 00:26:44.369 overhead. CDs didn't cost that much. I was promoting 00:26:44.369 --> 00:26:47.710 myself through being on television and it was 00:26:47.710 --> 00:26:50.289 very easy to sell a lot of products that way. 00:26:50.549 --> 00:26:54.269 And then even when I stopped being, Jack's Big 00:26:54.269 --> 00:26:56.289 Music Show only went for two seasons. I did a 00:26:56.289 --> 00:26:58.230 few more videos and I've done other things since 00:26:58.230 --> 00:27:01.490 then. But that like big time where there were 00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:04.630 really not that many places for kids to see a 00:27:04.630 --> 00:27:08.410 lot of. kids content on a screen, like it was 00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:12.349 really concentrated in Nick Jr., Disney Jr. and 00:27:12.349 --> 00:27:16.269 PBS. What was PBS Sprout at the time? That all 00:27:16.269 --> 00:27:18.289 coincided with a lot of people buying a lot of 00:27:18.289 --> 00:27:21.950 CDs. And then suddenly we had not only the recession, 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:25.269 but all the streaming and digital change. Right. 00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:28.539 So when that happened, I feel like. People stopped 00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:31.940 buying CDs and then they also realized I don't 00:27:31.940 --> 00:27:34.539 have to buy a CD because I can get it in a different 00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:37.720 way. It wasn't even just monetarily what was 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.000 going on in our economy. So it all happened at 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.779 the same time. And suddenly the bottom dropped 00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:45.920 out of selling CDs and people who are doing that. 00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:49.099 And we're all making CDs. We all still make them. 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.720 I mean, I think most people do. Some people do 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.299 on demand. Right. So that still exists. People 00:27:55.299 --> 00:27:58.170 are still buying them, but. I'm selling like 00:27:58.170 --> 00:28:03.309 a tenth or a fifth. I mean, like a half of a 00:28:03.309 --> 00:28:06.630 tenth, a twentieth. I mean, so many fewer than 00:28:06.630 --> 00:28:09.630 I ever was before. And when that first happened 00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:11.829 and the bottom dropped out of the market and 00:28:11.829 --> 00:28:15.890 the CDs stopped selling, streaming was not really 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:19.869 regulated. People didn't think to stream kids' 00:28:19.990 --> 00:28:21.950 music. I think they were just kind of like, well, 00:28:22.069 --> 00:28:25.900 I don't have a CD player in my car anymore. So 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:28.380 I'm not I don't want to buy new CDs, but they 00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:32.200 weren't necessarily like hooked into Amazon Music 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.420 or Apple Music or Spotify or however they listen 00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:39.140 now. So it was like some years and my business 00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:42.599 really suffered a lot around that time. I both 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:46.339 wasn't really on TV that much and trying to make 00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:49.200 a living as a musician had become really difficult. 00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:53.579 And at least for someone my size. Slowly, though, 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.380 we've been starting to see that trend is changing. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.480 People are actually streaming a lot. You know, 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.319 I mean, last week, is it weekly? I get reports 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:07.619 weekly only on Amazon. Last week, I had one point 00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:10.640 seven million streams of my songs. Wow. Right. 00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:13.700 So there's deservedly so. Yes. Yeah. It's I mean, 00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.619 people are really listening and they're really 00:29:15.619 --> 00:29:18.079 and kids listen to music over and over again. 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.279 So in a way, like kids music had. a lot of the 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.359 best of both worlds of everything, like with 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.059 CDs, those were the last people. They're the 00:29:26.059 --> 00:29:28.680 last people who are still buying CDs are people 00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.039 who have kids because they want to give a thing, 00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:34.119 right? I had to raise my hand when she said that 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.940 because my daughter knows what CDs are. I have 00:29:36.940 --> 00:29:42.220 almost 2 ,500 of them. And it's very much a story 00:29:42.220 --> 00:29:45.180 that we've told on this podcast many a times 00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:47.630 where we say. For the musicians out there, if 00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:49.609 you want to support a band or you want to support 00:29:49.609 --> 00:29:52.769 an artist that you care about their music, we've 00:29:52.769 --> 00:29:55.349 said to buy directly from the artist, buy the 00:29:55.349 --> 00:29:58.809 CDs. But hearing that story is kind of a different 00:29:58.809 --> 00:30:02.009 take on that. So I'm blown away because. Yeah, 00:30:02.089 --> 00:30:06.730 I will say that I think the equation that they 00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:10.170 use is 1500 streams equals one album. So the 00:30:10.170 --> 00:30:13.089 difference is with the albums, you get the money 00:30:13.089 --> 00:30:16.359 up front, right? Someone pays. 10 bucks buys 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:18.940 your album. You've sold it. You have that money. 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:20.759 You have, if they're streaming, you have to wait 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.740 for them to listen to it over and over and over 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:24.339 and over again. So you hope you have songs that 00:30:24.339 --> 00:30:26.000 they want to listen to over and over and over 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.059 again. So I think that's one aspect that, you 00:30:29.059 --> 00:30:31.200 know, if you end up making something that isn't 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.039 as popular as you want it to be, that could be 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.019 difficult. But on the other hand, they can still 00:30:36.019 --> 00:30:38.940 keep listening and they keep paying you a tiny, 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.240 tiny bit, but those tiny bits, they really do 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.950 add up. And you can also they can go back and 00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:49.450 have Spotify pay me or Amazon pay me for someone 00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:51.849 to listen to something that I put out 20 years 00:30:51.849 --> 00:30:54.250 ago. Right. And I don't have to house all of 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:57.269 that plastic. I don't have to wear it. I don't 00:30:57.269 --> 00:30:59.230 have to pay to ship it to them. I don't have 00:30:59.230 --> 00:31:02.589 to pay to make it like all of those things. There's 00:31:02.589 --> 00:31:04.869 a give and take. I mean, certainly, again, you 00:31:04.869 --> 00:31:07.509 have to be able to get people to listen. And 00:31:07.509 --> 00:31:11.130 that is, you know, in our attention. paying for 00:31:11.130 --> 00:31:16.309 attention in our economy, it's hard. And honestly, 00:31:16.569 --> 00:31:18.650 it also turned, I think it comes back to like 00:31:18.650 --> 00:31:20.509 getting yourself on playlists, which is sort 00:31:20.509 --> 00:31:22.589 of the same thing as what used to be getting 00:31:22.589 --> 00:31:24.829 your CD on an end cap at the end of an aisle 00:31:24.829 --> 00:31:27.930 at Target or something. You know, it's like all 00:31:27.930 --> 00:31:29.750 of those same things where now we're sort of 00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:33.710 vying for spots for people to hear things. But 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.509 I do think it's very, it's a viable way to make 00:31:37.509 --> 00:31:40.920 a living. If you're, you know, if you can get 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.980 people to listen. I want to change gears a little 00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:46.619 bit here. As we were doing show prep for this 00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:49.640 interview, I was talking with my wife who was, 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:51.420 like I said earlier, is the one who introduced 00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:54.819 me to your music. And she is a 20 year preschool 00:31:54.819 --> 00:31:58.579 teacher. And as a parent and as a teacher, she 00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:02.059 hears a song like the story of my feelings as 00:32:02.059 --> 00:32:05.440 a very honest song for children. And it touches 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.380 on things that not a lot of children's songs, 00:32:07.460 --> 00:32:09.579 at least that she is. heard in the classroom 00:32:09.579 --> 00:32:12.680 over the years touches on like sadness and anger. 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.420 What drives you to write about emotions other 00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:17.599 than happy go lucky all the time? Because that 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.819 is a very real thing to sing for kids. And it's 00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:24.700 something very different. I think that's a lot 00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:28.480 of things. I mean, so you mentioned before I 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.720 graduated from college and then I started blah, 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.680 blah, blah. Well, I graduated as a psych major 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.660 and I thought I was going to maybe go into psychology. 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:39.880 I wasn't sure I ended up. doing a lot of therapy 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.160 myself instead of being the therapist. I left 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.940 that to my husband. And I think that in like 00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:54.240 that process of self -discovery, being conscious 00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:58.339 of like having feelings being a positive thing 00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:02.160 and not always having been given that message 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.039 or maybe not always having gotten that message, 00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:08.539 I will say, when I was a kid. took me many years 00:33:08.539 --> 00:33:13.420 to undo. And a lot of what I write about, I try 00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:17.400 to write thinking about what I wished I had been 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.579 able to hear, sing about, dance to, enjoy, learn, 00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:26.319 feel when I was a kid. And so that's one of those 00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:29.400 things. And that song, actually, I wrote that 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:34.640 I was having a fight with my other tomato. And 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.339 I just came home and I was like crying about 00:33:37.339 --> 00:33:39.539 it and I didn't know what to do. And I just sat 00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:42.180 down on my coffee table and I picked up the guitar 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:44.960 and I just started to like, this is the story 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.940 of what I cried. I was just like crying and crying 00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:50.740 and crying. And then, but I was also in this 00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:54.400 very intense body -based therapy where the whole 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.960 thing was like, have your feelings, express your 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.660 feelings. If you hold them back, all you're doing 00:33:59.660 --> 00:34:03.400 is. it's like toxic basically. And not, not to 00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:07.279 dump them on people, but to be honest about having 00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:10.519 them be expressed. Right. So I was like, I'm 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.739 crying and it feels good. And I'm, and it, there's 00:34:13.739 --> 00:34:16.019 that feeling, you know, when you're a kid and 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:18.420 I think this goes into adulthood when we don't 00:34:18.420 --> 00:34:20.119 allow ourselves to cry enough, when you start 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.780 crying, what's so scary about it is that it feels 00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:25.440 like it will never end. Right. It's like it's 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:28.199 never going to transform. I will be sad the rest 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.260 of my life. And it's scary to go deep into those 00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:34.019 feelings. But if you let yourself go into them 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:37.480 and you actually let yourself cry, that's when 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.219 you can transform them. And so then it's like, 00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:42.880 OK, I'm crying now. I'm like, I don't want to 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.579 be I feel kind of angry, too. You know, like 00:34:45.579 --> 00:34:47.659 I have other feelings under there. You start 00:34:47.659 --> 00:34:49.900 to peel away the layers. And then when you when 00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:51.800 you feel angry and you let yourself feel angry 00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.510 and express it, then. that can transform as well. 00:34:54.610 --> 00:34:56.789 And you can actually start to feel kind of like 00:34:56.789 --> 00:34:59.829 joyous about like, hey, I got some good feelings, 00:34:59.949 --> 00:35:03.010 you know, and then maybe even like take a breath 00:35:03.010 --> 00:35:05.630 and just kind of be with like, oh, okay, now 00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:08.349 I feel sort of peaceful. I felt like I kind of 00:35:08.349 --> 00:35:11.670 went through all of those feelings and it felt 00:35:11.670 --> 00:35:14.269 really good to do it musically because that's 00:35:14.269 --> 00:35:17.239 a way that I express myself. So I just thought, 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.119 why wouldn't a kid want to feel this too? I wish 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:22.380 I had been able to do this when I was a kid and 00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:25.679 someone didn't say to me, don't cry, stop yelling. 00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.079 Even when I was happy, don't be so loud, inside 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.079 voice, that kind of thing. Or even like, how 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:36.099 is it okay to be sort of almost meditative as 00:35:36.099 --> 00:35:37.920 a kid? Oh, you're supposed to be active, get 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.639 up, move around, jump around. I mean, all those 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:41.639 things are important, but you also want to leave 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:45.619 space for the other side. To piggyback off that, 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:49.500 a lot of your songs involve and encourage movement 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:52.639 and activity. And is that something you plan 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:56.019 in advance or does it just happen that way in 00:35:56.019 --> 00:35:59.300 the songwriting process for kids? It's both. 00:35:59.380 --> 00:36:02.559 I mean, sometimes it happens like some of the 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:05.739 old songs, it would happen in the classroom because 00:36:05.739 --> 00:36:09.170 I would be kind of working with the kids. I would 00:36:09.170 --> 00:36:12.230 see that they needed to move or I would notice 00:36:12.230 --> 00:36:14.449 that they were starting to do those things and 00:36:14.449 --> 00:36:17.449 I would kind of follow it. But also, I think 00:36:17.449 --> 00:36:20.329 about it very much because, you know, if you 00:36:20.329 --> 00:36:23.610 think about the age of the kids I'm writing for, 00:36:23.750 --> 00:36:26.489 I know people start playing my music for infants. 00:36:26.650 --> 00:36:30.809 I was certainly thinking a lot about early toddlers. 00:36:31.230 --> 00:36:33.230 through maybe six years old when I was teaching. 00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:35.710 I was working at the Infant and Toddler Center 00:36:35.710 --> 00:36:37.750 at Rockefeller University and at their Child 00:36:37.750 --> 00:36:40.730 and Family Center. So that was my age breadth. 00:36:41.550 --> 00:36:47.250 And think about like an 18 -month -old kid, barely 00:36:47.250 --> 00:36:50.250 talking, right? Like just starting to form words 00:36:50.250 --> 00:36:52.750 and stuff, but their whole life they've been 00:36:52.750 --> 00:36:55.409 moving. Even if it was just learning to roll 00:36:55.409 --> 00:36:57.369 over or something like they've been physical 00:36:57.369 --> 00:37:00.329 longer than they've been verbal at the like for 00:37:00.329 --> 00:37:05.929 a lot of my age group. And so that just seems 00:37:05.929 --> 00:37:09.389 like a natural way to me for kids to connect 00:37:09.389 --> 00:37:12.250 to music. I also was really interested when I 00:37:12.250 --> 00:37:15.329 first started out in a pedagogy called Delcro's 00:37:15.329 --> 00:37:18.170 Eurythmics, which was the only actually teaching 00:37:18.170 --> 00:37:20.550 class, teaching music class that I took. It was 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:23.340 sort of like a night. school class once a week 00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:26.940 and it's the main thing that a takeaway from 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:30.599 me for me from it was that when you play music 00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.699 it encourages a certain kind of music movement 00:37:33.699 --> 00:37:36.519 I mean to to that music so if you're playing 00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.300 quickly kids might you might show that to them 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:41.300 by running or you might encourage them to run 00:37:41.300 --> 00:37:43.940 when you're playing quickly or if you are playing 00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:46.179 sort of a ska beat or a reggae beat that might 00:37:46.179 --> 00:37:48.719 encourage them to jump. And I incorporated that 00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.880 a lot into what I was doing because it really 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:54.000 followed that idea of put it in the music. Don't 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.920 talk to them so much. Just put it in the music 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.360 and they will respond. And I would see like seven 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:02.280 month old babies who were just had just learned 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:06.159 to sit up when I would go, they would start like 00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.840 bouncing in their seats. And it was just so natural. 00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:14.219 It made. the music so much more fun, too, that 00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:17.480 I realized, OK, this is how I can connect to 00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.159 them. So I need to think a lot about what kinds 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.480 of movements can I incorporate into my music 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.400 whenever I can. And it ties a little bit back 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.519 to what you said earlier when your predecessor 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.820 at the school had told you, manage them. You 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:32.619 know, you give them you give them something to 00:38:32.619 --> 00:38:34.719 do and they'll do it and they'll enjoy it more 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.929 as much as you will. I wanted to capitalize on 00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:39.929 that a little bit, too, because you get a lot 00:38:39.929 --> 00:38:42.289 of times you get where kids music, they they 00:38:42.289 --> 00:38:45.170 kind of dumb it down. It's kind of I don't want 00:38:45.170 --> 00:38:47.829 to insult anybody by using that term, but you 00:38:47.829 --> 00:38:51.849 use a lot of sound effects and a lot of freneticness, 00:38:51.889 --> 00:38:55.409 if that's a word in these songs. Why is it important, 00:38:55.510 --> 00:38:57.909 you think, not to dumb down these songs for kids? 00:38:58.710 --> 00:39:01.610 One reason is because then it's much harder for 00:39:01.610 --> 00:39:03.630 adults to listen to and it's harder for me to 00:39:03.630 --> 00:39:06.539 actually play them. But I felt really honestly, 00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:09.599 like when I would go into the classroom and talk 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.599 to the kids, when I just talked to them, I just 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:17.320 talked to them. They're so smart and tuned into 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:21.159 themselves and interested and curious. And I 00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.719 felt like I kind of had to learn a new language 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.960 when I first started working with preschoolers. 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.880 Like they were talking in a way that I had learned 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:35.449 that I had. It's like I had learned to unlearn 00:39:35.449 --> 00:39:37.349 it. Like, you know, it was sort of the way that 00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:41.510 I think we all start in their sincerity and sort 00:39:41.510 --> 00:39:45.190 of raw desire for pleasure and just being in 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:48.090 the moment and all of those things and the way 00:39:48.090 --> 00:39:50.670 that they interact with each other. There was 00:39:50.670 --> 00:39:52.929 so much vocabulary that I just remember thinking, 00:39:53.010 --> 00:39:55.010 like, I have I don't even understand what they're 00:39:55.010 --> 00:39:57.349 saying to each other. Like, I was so far away 00:39:57.349 --> 00:40:00.570 from that as a 20 something that I had to kind 00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:05.170 of like relearn it. And now I totally forgot 00:40:05.170 --> 00:40:08.750 what your question was. Well, why do you think 00:40:08.750 --> 00:40:12.030 it's important not to dumb it down? Yeah, because 00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:15.610 they're not dumb, right? It's like you don't 00:40:15.610 --> 00:40:17.650 have to dumb it down. They're not dumb. They 00:40:17.650 --> 00:40:21.170 have less life experience. But that's the difference. 00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.829 It's about growth and learning and developing 00:40:24.829 --> 00:40:28.389 and changing in that way. We don't start out 00:40:28.389 --> 00:40:31.389 dumb. And so I just feel like sometimes things 00:40:31.389 --> 00:40:35.489 being simpler are easier to it's easier for them 00:40:35.489 --> 00:40:39.369 to take in individual things and less complex 00:40:39.369 --> 00:40:43.690 things sometimes, but not always. And and also 00:40:43.690 --> 00:40:48.170 simple things can be beautiful and so powerful, 00:40:48.309 --> 00:40:51.449 you know, so there's always a crossover. So I 00:40:51.449 --> 00:40:54.190 think like dumbing something down is just, you 00:40:54.190 --> 00:40:56.389 know, not giving it the respect it deserves and 00:40:56.389 --> 00:40:59.130 not respecting them either. So piggybacking off 00:40:59.130 --> 00:41:01.570 of that even more is what do you think goes into 00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:04.150 the perfect children's song? We're taking notes, 00:41:04.210 --> 00:41:10.110 by the way. Well, I will say that one of the 00:41:10.110 --> 00:41:13.750 reasons it was much harder for me to write music 00:41:13.750 --> 00:41:16.829 that was supposed to be for adults, I think, 00:41:16.829 --> 00:41:21.650 was because there were fewer parameters. So I 00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:26.300 have an editing problem. I talk a lot. When I 00:41:26.300 --> 00:41:28.059 start to write something, I just write and write 00:41:28.059 --> 00:41:29.820 and write and write and write. And it's not necessarily 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:32.820 something that you want to read. It's not particularly, 00:41:33.099 --> 00:41:36.960 it doesn't mean it's interesting or good or unrambling. 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:39.679 It's just that I have a lot of thoughts and I 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:43.119 need to sort of put them all out there and then 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.000 I edit back. And writing kids' music forced me 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:50.059 to edit in a way that... I couldn't, I think 00:41:50.059 --> 00:41:51.679 it's that I'm really bad at making decisions, 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.880 honestly. Like every time I had to decide, like, 00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:56.599 well, I kind of want to write about this. Maybe 00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:57.760 I want to write about that. And then suddenly 00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.619 the song's about 20 different things. And then 00:41:59.619 --> 00:42:03.239 it doesn't mean anything to anybody. So when 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:05.539 I would write songs for kids, I noticed I got 00:42:05.539 --> 00:42:08.820 to stick to one idea or some, if it's more than 00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:11.420 one idea, it has, they have to be totally integrated 00:42:11.420 --> 00:42:14.679 and make sense. And if I don't do that, I lose 00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.949 them. You know, I can't do abstract. I have to 00:42:17.949 --> 00:42:21.329 focus in on what the song is about. Like write 00:42:21.329 --> 00:42:25.409 little nuggets. Do and not every kid. I mean, 00:42:25.409 --> 00:42:27.869 when you say what's the perfect kid song, that's 00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:29.730 like what's the perfect pop song? What's the 00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:32.329 perfect jazz song? Like there's so many great 00:42:32.329 --> 00:42:35.329 ways for a song to be right. There's so many 00:42:35.329 --> 00:42:38.230 options to make something brilliant and beautiful 00:42:38.230 --> 00:42:42.110 and catchy and that moves you. And, you know, 00:42:42.110 --> 00:42:44.289 in emotionally and physically, like all those 00:42:44.289 --> 00:42:48.519 ways. But you have to choose along the way in 00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:50.800 order to make something like that. The subjectness 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.599 of it. Right? Yeah. So I would have a very hard 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:55.519 time choosing when I did the adult stuff. I was 00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.179 much more sort of Joni Mitchell, diary -like, 00:42:58.380 --> 00:43:02.900 you know, long things. And some people really 00:43:02.900 --> 00:43:05.260 liked those songs, but they weren't the same 00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:10.260 kind of... Well, I think of my songs more honed 00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:12.099 now. When I first started writing them, I mean, 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.760 we had the diaries. I just walked around and 00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.650 I was like... What do you think of that? They 00:43:15.650 --> 00:43:17.949 make the earth flat. I mean, I remember thinking 00:43:17.949 --> 00:43:20.690 this is the dumbest song. Why would anybody listen 00:43:20.690 --> 00:43:23.070 to this song? Why does anybody think this is 00:43:23.070 --> 00:43:26.250 a good song? And then I noticed like, OK, maybe 00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:28.050 it's not so dumb. I just feel that way about 00:43:28.050 --> 00:43:31.610 every song that I write. Like I often feel like 00:43:31.610 --> 00:43:34.269 I'm writing them and I get really excited by 00:43:34.269 --> 00:43:37.170 it. And then once it's done, I'm like, oh, it 00:43:37.170 --> 00:43:40.590 seemed so good when I was writing it. And now. 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.780 But then I have to put it out in the world and 00:43:44.780 --> 00:43:48.099 actually get some response from people and make 00:43:48.099 --> 00:43:50.539 it real that way because I always go through 00:43:50.539 --> 00:43:53.539 that process. I like it when I write it, especially 00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:56.500 if it's with kids around because there's so much 00:43:56.500 --> 00:43:58.900 excitement and happiness and they loved it. They 00:43:58.900 --> 00:44:01.659 begged me for that song over and over again. 00:44:01.699 --> 00:44:03.579 But then when I sat down and actually looked 00:44:03.579 --> 00:44:06.159 at the lyrics written out, I was like... Who 00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:10.460 wrote this? Well, now I have to switch roles 00:44:10.460 --> 00:44:14.460 from podcast host to parent here. And I will 00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:16.719 say that We Are the Dinosaurs probably had more 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:20.579 collective plays in my car over a 10 -year period 00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:23.239 than probably all of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath 00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:26.760 and everything else combined. No, I totally take 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:29.480 it back. It's a great song. I'm sorry. No, but 00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:31.739 I have a few questions about some of your other 00:44:31.739 --> 00:44:34.159 songs. Now, this is coming just from a parent. 00:44:34.730 --> 00:44:38.210 I need to know. It'll help me sleep better at 00:44:38.210 --> 00:44:42.010 night. Who is Victor Vito and Freddie Vasco? 00:44:42.530 --> 00:44:44.889 Because I know what they eat, but I want to know 00:44:44.889 --> 00:44:47.409 who these people are. What's the story behind 00:44:47.409 --> 00:44:53.190 them? So when I first started, I guess maybe 00:44:53.190 --> 00:44:55.909 when I first started my business, I got an accountant 00:44:55.909 --> 00:45:01.769 and his name was Fred Fishkin. Freddie. And then. 00:45:02.730 --> 00:45:05.349 I stayed with him for a while and doing my taxes 00:45:05.349 --> 00:45:08.750 was probably the most stressful thing in my world 00:45:08.750 --> 00:45:13.070 at all times. I didn't understand sales tax and 00:45:13.070 --> 00:45:15.989 all this stuff about starting a business. I honestly 00:45:15.989 --> 00:45:21.570 was like, what am I doing? And so Fred was not 00:45:21.570 --> 00:45:25.429 helping me enough. So I moved on to Vito Sclafani 00:45:25.429 --> 00:45:29.750 of Vasco Accounting. And I thought his name was 00:45:29.750 --> 00:45:34.039 Vito Vasco for like a year. And I was like, Fred 00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:39.380 Fishkin and Vito Vasco. How do I get only alliterative 00:45:39.380 --> 00:45:42.079 accountants? Alliterative accountants? Like even 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:44.519 that's alliteration. And I just thought it was 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.440 so funny. Then I found out his name was actually 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.039 Vito Scofani. But I remembered thinking, God, 00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:53.179 those names are really fun to say. And that's 00:45:53.179 --> 00:45:55.360 part of, that's one thing that I love writing 00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:57.980 songs. I love writing songs when there's like 00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:00.079 fun things to say. And I loved that when I was 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.099 a kid. So literally like three years after I, 00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:06.960 I think I had even left Vito at that point, I 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:09.579 still remembered their names and I was walking 00:46:09.579 --> 00:46:12.980 to work and I didn't have a new song that day. 00:46:13.059 --> 00:46:16.260 And I was like, I should, what about that Vito, 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:22.360 Vito Vasco, Freddie Fishkin, Victor, Victor Vito, 00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.159 Freddie, like I just started blah, blah, blah, 00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:26.800 blah, blah, blah. And by the time I'd walked 00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:30.829 from the subway to the school. I had come up 00:46:30.829 --> 00:46:33.289 with Victor Vito and I was like, OK, that's kind 00:46:33.289 --> 00:46:35.329 of fun to say. Let's see what happens. So I played 00:46:35.329 --> 00:46:37.489 it for the kids there. And while I was there, 00:46:37.630 --> 00:46:40.269 if you know the song by the third verse, it gets 00:46:40.269 --> 00:46:43.250 slower and then it gets faster at the end. And 00:46:43.250 --> 00:46:45.349 I was playing the song and I had them do the 00:46:45.349 --> 00:46:47.690 call and response. But then I felt like, oh, 00:46:47.789 --> 00:46:49.989 maybe they're getting bored. I got to do something 00:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.230 different. So I slowed it down. And then I was 00:46:52.230 --> 00:46:53.650 like, oh, once you slow it down, you got to speed 00:46:53.650 --> 00:46:55.510 it up. And then everybody got up and started 00:46:55.510 --> 00:46:57.809 dancing. And I thought, oh, this is working. 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.639 But there was one kid who said, I can't say all 00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.179 the words are too hard for me. And I thought, 00:47:05.260 --> 00:47:08.199 oh, I'm it's maybe it is too hard. Maybe I shouldn't 00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:10.340 leave this song as it is. And I sort of set it 00:47:10.340 --> 00:47:12.960 aside. And then the next week when I saw her, 00:47:13.019 --> 00:47:15.800 she had been trying to learn it. And I thought, 00:47:15.860 --> 00:47:18.300 oh, no, that's good. You don't want to just like 00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.840 get it and then be done like you have to work 00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:22.940 for some of this stuff. But if she cared enough 00:47:22.940 --> 00:47:25.179 to actually want to learn it and she was only. 00:47:25.550 --> 00:47:28.929 three, like that would, that was good. So, so 00:47:28.929 --> 00:47:32.469 anyway, that was the story of Victor Vito and 00:47:32.469 --> 00:47:34.670 Freddie Vasco. That's awesome. All right. I've 00:47:34.670 --> 00:47:36.510 been waiting 10 years for that answer. That's 00:47:36.510 --> 00:47:40.590 fantastic. A couple of times you've dropped Jack's 00:47:40.590 --> 00:47:42.570 big music show, which by the way, was my favorite. 00:47:42.789 --> 00:47:46.929 That show introduced my two older children into 00:47:46.929 --> 00:47:49.949 the world of music with little sock puppet. If 00:47:49.949 --> 00:47:51.550 you haven't seen this show is the cutest little 00:47:51.550 --> 00:47:53.590 dog sock puppet and his friends. And they had 00:47:53.590 --> 00:47:56.119 this tree house. And his mom would always, the 00:47:56.119 --> 00:47:58.539 funny thing, Laurie, about Jack's Big Music Show 00:47:58.539 --> 00:48:01.519 is what she would always tell him she was going 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:05.000 out to do that particular day. Right. And it 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:06.820 was always something random and different and 00:48:06.820 --> 00:48:09.360 funny that the kids wouldn't get it, but the 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:11.699 adults would totally get it. Yep, yep. And that's 00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:14.440 when Laurie Berkner popped onto my TV and I was 00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:18.500 just, I'm like, this is amazing. This is fun. 00:48:18.699 --> 00:48:22.039 This is, it's poppy, it's catchy, and it's informative. 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.460 Like, it's educational. I want to know for you, 00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:27.739 because before that you were doing, you know, 00:48:27.739 --> 00:48:31.460 live live concerts and parties. What was that 00:48:31.460 --> 00:48:34.360 transition like for you to go to the TV, jumping 00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:38.179 in media for all intents and purposes? Yeah, 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:40.579 that's a good question. I mean, when we like 00:48:40.579 --> 00:48:43.500 I said, we started just by doing those four or 00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:47.099 five videos for Noggin. It was interesting because 00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:51.880 we shot them all in one day and the first. round 00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.420 of them were terrible. Like, I don't know what 00:48:55.420 --> 00:48:57.639 happened, but they actually fired that production 00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.260 company and said, we're going to redo all of 00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:03.320 them. And I remember feeling like I was going 00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:05.320 to die at the end of that day. Like I was so 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:08.940 tired and exhausted and so unhappy. And I thought, 00:49:08.940 --> 00:49:11.519 is this what is this going to be like, you know, 00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:16.079 like this is awful. And then we rescheduled and 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:20.349 shot them again. And it was great. It was actually 00:49:20.349 --> 00:49:24.250 was awesome. And and I will say those first noggin 00:49:24.250 --> 00:49:28.710 videos, if I have the timing right. I was two 00:49:28.710 --> 00:49:33.150 months pregnant and I was lying down on the set 00:49:33.150 --> 00:49:36.989 in the shots trying not to throw up. Oh, man, 00:49:37.409 --> 00:49:40.449 that's a behind the scenes moment there. But 00:49:40.449 --> 00:49:43.190 I will say now, if you haven't seen any of these 00:49:43.190 --> 00:49:46.230 videos or Laurie's brilliant turns on Jack's 00:49:46.230 --> 00:49:48.880 Big Music Show or any of the noggin stuff. For 00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:51.699 a minute, I had no idea that you didn't have 00:49:51.699 --> 00:49:54.920 a TV background. Yeah, well, I did have an acting. 00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:57.579 I mean, when I was in high school, I really wanted 00:49:57.579 --> 00:50:00.159 to be on Broadway. That was like my fantasy. 00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:03.719 So I had the lead in junior and senior year in 00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:08.039 the musical in high school, or one of the leads. 00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:13.360 And I loved acting, but I didn't really like... 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:16.219 having to be a character that wasn't me is what 00:50:16.219 --> 00:50:19.239 I realized. Like I like being on stage and playing 00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:21.719 music and talking to people and just like blah, 00:50:21.739 --> 00:50:24.260 blah, blah, you know, but when I had to memorize 00:50:24.260 --> 00:50:26.940 lines and try to do something else, I actually, 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:29.940 there were some things about that I really liked, 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:32.400 but eventually I realized I didn't like it as 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:35.699 much as just getting up and making music. But 00:50:35.699 --> 00:50:38.219 I think the acting background really helped because 00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:41.610 that's where you learn to take direction. Right. 00:50:41.710 --> 00:50:44.469 And learn what kinds of things like watch other 00:50:44.469 --> 00:50:46.389 people who do it. And I would think about like, 00:50:46.510 --> 00:50:49.849 oh, you know, what do I do that that's good for 00:50:49.849 --> 00:50:52.369 me? Like how and how can I how what feels good 00:50:52.369 --> 00:50:55.489 when I'm in the audience? What is that person 00:50:55.489 --> 00:50:57.590 doing that makes me feel like they're really 00:50:57.590 --> 00:50:59.949 talking to me? And so that when I'm up there, 00:51:00.090 --> 00:51:02.230 I can do the same thing because I want to be 00:51:02.230 --> 00:51:05.050 talking to everybody. But it doesn't always like 00:51:05.050 --> 00:51:08.230 how a person feels on stage is certainly very 00:51:08.230 --> 00:51:10.690 different than being the person watching. Right. 00:51:11.179 --> 00:51:13.760 And so I just tried to do that into a camera 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.420 and it worked. I mean, people did, I feel like 00:51:17.420 --> 00:51:20.559 that has made a very, it's been a very big part 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:24.000 of the reason why people got to hear my music 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.780 was that I was somehow able to translate, not 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:30.039 just being a musician, but also someone that 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:32.360 you'd want to like, think you would want to talk 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.539 to. Or like, I think the kids feel that way when 00:51:35.539 --> 00:51:37.820 they see the music, if they feel comfortable 00:51:37.820 --> 00:51:40.179 seeing me, even now when I make my videos, I'm 00:51:40.179 --> 00:51:42.960 really. I think really a lot about like, I'm 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.159 looking at kids right now. Like I am imagining 00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:48.380 them interacting with them, you know, but even 00:51:48.380 --> 00:51:50.440 though it's just a camera in front of me, I really 00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:53.760 try to be in that space. And luckily it seems 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:56.280 to translate. I know it doesn't always for everybody. 00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:58.840 So that's just been something that, you know. 00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:01.719 You don't see the questions we have over here, 00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:04.519 do you? You had mentioned something in your last 00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:06.860 question that was literally the next question 00:52:06.860 --> 00:52:09.000 I had queued up. So thank you so much for the 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:13.340 perfect segue. No problem. Besides the albums 00:52:13.340 --> 00:52:16.119 that you've written, you've also done music for 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:18.460 off -Broadway plays. And you talked about this 00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:21.019 background in acting and off -Broadway. Do you 00:52:21.019 --> 00:52:22.619 ever feel that there was a difference in writing 00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:25.659 for off -Broadway music as to the children's 00:52:25.659 --> 00:52:27.219 songs that you put on your albums? Is there a 00:52:27.219 --> 00:52:29.800 different mindset and a different path that you 00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:33.099 need to take with that style of music? Yes and 00:52:33.099 --> 00:52:36.659 no. I mean, yes, in that when I'm writing a song 00:52:36.659 --> 00:52:38.659 that's part of a musical, it has to move the 00:52:38.659 --> 00:52:40.420 story along. It has to give a certain amount 00:52:40.420 --> 00:52:43.000 of information. When I'm writing a kid's song 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.940 that doesn't have to do with anything else, I 00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:47.400 just decide like what kind of information I want 00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:50.420 to put into the song. Right. So in a way, though, 00:52:50.539 --> 00:52:52.360 that's really good for me because, again, it 00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:55.880 gives me limitations. I really work better when 00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:58.559 someone says, I want a song like this. I need 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.460 you to get this information into the song. I 00:53:01.460 --> 00:53:04.119 want you, I want, you know, this to happen by 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:06.480 the end of it. Like I write a lot of songs without 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.880 people telling me what to write, but I've noticed 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.059 when people give me parameters like that, I'm 00:53:11.059 --> 00:53:12.820 like, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to 00:53:12.820 --> 00:53:14.940 figure out how to make that a good song. It's 00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:17.579 like a puzzle. Like I love, I love crossword 00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:21.539 puzzles. And so I get really excited and I feel 00:53:21.539 --> 00:53:25.820 like, so writing the music for those, those three, 00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:29.039 we did Wanda's Monster, which was based on the 00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:32.039 book called Wanda's Monster. And that was hard 00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:33.940 because I had to write a lot of songs with the 00:53:33.940 --> 00:53:37.699 word monster in it. Although he did use my song 00:53:37.699 --> 00:53:39.320 Monster Boogie, which was helpful because that 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.539 was already written. And then then I had to write 00:53:42.539 --> 00:53:47.179 songs for a book that was about mimes. Mimes 00:53:47.179 --> 00:53:52.699 don't speak. Instrumental album, was it? We decided 00:53:52.699 --> 00:53:57.579 to do scatting. Like the parents, when they didn't 00:53:57.579 --> 00:53:58.840 speak, they were like, hoo -bah -ba -doo -bah, 00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:00.800 scooby -dooby -doo. You know, like that was sort 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:03.179 of how, but they only did that when they were 00:54:03.179 --> 00:54:05.320 singing and then they didn't speak for other 00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:07.900 parts of the show. So clever. And then, yeah, 00:54:07.940 --> 00:54:12.119 that might not have been my idea. And the last 00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.659 one was a futuristic feminist take on Cinderella, 00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:18.420 which was Interstellar Cinderella. So that was 00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:21.480 all like songs about a thousand years in the 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:24.369 future, which. was sort of somehow became kind 00:54:24.369 --> 00:54:26.670 of retro and futuristic at the same time, which 00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:29.849 was fun. But so those were like, I wouldn't, 00:54:29.849 --> 00:54:32.670 it's not things that I would like sit around 00:54:32.670 --> 00:54:35.530 thinking I should write about or like a song 00:54:35.530 --> 00:54:38.070 for the stepmother or something, which was super 00:54:38.070 --> 00:54:42.250 fun to write. That song was called little miss 00:54:42.250 --> 00:54:45.730 fix it. And, and it was where she was like complaining 00:54:45.730 --> 00:54:47.989 about Cinderella being and a little, you know, 00:54:47.989 --> 00:54:51.130 a goody two shoes and her kids being so much 00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:54.039 better. So anyway, it was really it's fun and 00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:58.639 it's different in that way. But I had to write 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:02.699 like a song that did a certain thing and fit 00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:07.199 in the musical and hopefully was easy enough 00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:10.780 on the ears for kids to want to immediately get 00:55:10.780 --> 00:55:12.280 connected to it and want to go home and sing 00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:15.480 it. But also sophisticated enough that adults 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.880 wouldn't be like, oh, I'm listening to a musical 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.530 filled with songs like. Old McDonald's, right? 00:55:20.630 --> 00:55:23.230 So it's sort of had the same, I had some of the 00:55:23.230 --> 00:55:27.349 same challenges. Aside from those off -Broadway 00:55:27.349 --> 00:55:30.449 shows, you have some Audible original series, 00:55:30.610 --> 00:55:33.010 Laurie Berkner's Song and Story Kitchen. And 00:55:33.010 --> 00:55:37.929 in that, also into SiriusXM's Kids Place Live, 00:55:38.010 --> 00:55:39.949 you did a show with your daughter. And I know 00:55:39.949 --> 00:55:42.420 you've mentioned your husband. was the bass player 00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:45.239 in the original Laurie Berkner band. Tell me 00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.159 a little bit about how, what that's like for 00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:49.659 you doing shows with your family members and 00:55:49.659 --> 00:55:52.780 how it's like to work with your own family. Well, 00:55:53.039 --> 00:56:00.780 Brian left the band. I mean, it was great. We 00:56:00.780 --> 00:56:03.320 were playing together before Lucy was born and 00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:06.739 she is 14 now. So we did that mostly because 00:56:06.739 --> 00:56:10.230 he had taken a job. He also was a psychology 00:56:10.230 --> 00:56:14.349 major, ended up going into computers and was 00:56:14.349 --> 00:56:17.769 kind of making some money while I was teaching 00:56:17.769 --> 00:56:21.989 and trying to start my business. And that helped 00:56:21.989 --> 00:56:24.309 us for a while. And then luckily we got to flip 00:56:24.309 --> 00:56:27.050 it when then I started suddenly doing really 00:56:27.050 --> 00:56:28.929 well. And he was like, I can quit my computer 00:56:28.929 --> 00:56:31.269 job and come play music with you and we can support 00:56:31.269 --> 00:56:34.289 ourselves on your music. So we did that for a 00:56:34.289 --> 00:56:38.239 while until Lucy was born and then was. About 00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:41.820 a year and a half, which was when he said, you 00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:43.920 know what? I love playing music, but I never 00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:47.500 planned on being a musician. And I I know that 00:56:47.500 --> 00:56:50.159 writing kids music is really your passion and 00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:52.599 it's not really mine, even though I really love 00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:55.739 playing with you. I need to go do what I want 00:56:55.739 --> 00:56:59.059 to do. So he then took the next eight years and 00:56:59.059 --> 00:57:02.900 got a Ph .D. in psychology. And yeah, so he's 00:57:02.900 --> 00:57:05.880 and a master. So he's he's doing that now, which 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:08.780 is awesome. And it was really hard. I actually 00:57:08.780 --> 00:57:11.280 thought what was hard was him leaving. I actually 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:13.139 thought that I would quit. I was like, who else 00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:14.699 am I going to play with? Like, who's going to 00:57:14.699 --> 00:57:16.900 want to play with me? And who else would I get? 00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:19.519 And then some other people convinced me, like, 00:57:19.539 --> 00:57:22.699 you could probably get somebody else. And then 00:57:22.699 --> 00:57:26.159 the show on XM with Lucy, who you said was 14. 00:57:26.219 --> 00:57:30.000 So that's about the same age as Sydney. And Sydney 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:31.800 started watching you, apparently, when you were 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:35.239 two months pregnant with Lucy. So that's terrific. 00:57:36.030 --> 00:57:39.789 Yeah, well, we haven't done that in some years 00:57:39.789 --> 00:57:42.550 now, but she did that with me for many years. 00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:45.150 I'm trying to remember how old she was. She might 00:57:45.150 --> 00:57:48.329 have been five or six when we started and then 00:57:48.329 --> 00:57:51.230 did it until she was like eight or nine or ten 00:57:51.230 --> 00:57:53.210 maybe even. We did it for a lot of years. And 00:57:53.210 --> 00:57:56.150 we would go in once a month and we would record 00:57:56.150 --> 00:57:58.869 the whole month in one sitting. And all we would 00:57:58.869 --> 00:58:02.590 do was talk about how each day, it morphed a 00:58:02.590 --> 00:58:04.250 little bit over time, but each day was special. 00:58:05.500 --> 00:58:08.659 It's National Cupcake Day or it's like, you know, 00:58:08.659 --> 00:58:10.559 and or it would be like a birthday shout out 00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:12.760 or something. We would like do shout outs. People 00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:14.320 would send in their birthdays for that day and 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.699 be like, it's National Cupcake Day and it's Brian 00:58:16.699 --> 00:58:22.059 and Jay's birthday. I'm all excited. Lucy was 00:58:22.059 --> 00:58:25.920 like the most cool improv partner. It was so 00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:29.619 awesome. And she would just be like, Mom, do 00:58:29.619 --> 00:58:32.409 you have a favorite cupcake? Because mine is 00:58:32.409 --> 00:58:34.329 blah, blah, or whatever. She's like, I think 00:58:34.329 --> 00:58:36.130 we should ask people who are listening about 00:58:36.130 --> 00:58:37.829 their favorite cupcakes. And, in fact, if we 00:58:37.829 --> 00:58:39.750 were making cupcakes, I would make mine blue 00:58:39.750 --> 00:58:41.989 and green. Like, she would just, like, say stuff. 00:58:42.170 --> 00:58:44.449 And then we'd be like, okay, happy National Cupcake 00:58:44.449 --> 00:58:47.269 Day. We just made it up, every single one of 00:58:47.269 --> 00:58:51.010 them. And she was such a good sport about it. 00:58:51.030 --> 00:58:52.570 Because sometimes we'd go there, and it was, 00:58:52.570 --> 00:58:54.909 like, 7 o 'clock at night. And she was 6 years 00:58:54.909 --> 00:58:57.789 old and, like, exhausted and hungry. And it was 00:58:57.789 --> 00:58:59.590 raining outside. And she'd be like, do I have 00:58:59.590 --> 00:59:02.260 to do this with you? And other times I'd say, 00:59:02.340 --> 00:59:04.500 you don't, you don't have to do this at all. 00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:07.079 And then she'd be like, no, I want to, you know, 00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:09.400 I mean, she got really into it. And then after 00:59:09.400 --> 00:59:11.900 a few years, she finally said, I think I'm, I'm 00:59:11.900 --> 00:59:14.480 done. And she started sounding older, which wasn't 00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:18.199 as fun, I think, you know. So, but she's always 00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:21.260 been, she's been really great about being part 00:59:21.260 --> 00:59:24.280 of what I do. When she was super little, she 00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:26.719 was backstage and I was breastfeeding her, you 00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:28.960 know, in between shows. And when she got older, 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.719 she was, she would come. down front and watch 00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:34.340 the show and then that was not her favorite time 00:59:34.340 --> 00:59:37.320 because i didn't respond to her like calling 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:41.920 out hey mom i have a question you know and then 00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:44.179 she started like coming and throwing beach balls 00:59:44.179 --> 00:59:46.239 out of the audience from the shows or singing 00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:48.780 sometimes on stage or now she likes to sell merch 00:59:48.780 --> 00:59:51.280 you know at the shows and helps that way and 00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.820 i'll say she's actually good at performing but 00:59:54.820 --> 00:59:57.329 i don't think it's her she doesn't love it But 00:59:57.329 --> 00:59:59.329 she loves being around the theater. So she's 00:59:59.329 --> 01:00:01.710 been really interested in technical theater and 01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:04.050 set design and costumes and stuff. And she said, 01:00:04.130 --> 01:00:07.710 it's your fault, mom. I feel like I grew up going 01:00:07.710 --> 01:00:09.949 to theaters all the time, being backstage all 01:00:09.949 --> 01:00:12.489 the time. I feel so comfortable there. But I 01:00:12.489 --> 01:00:14.170 don't really want to get up in front of people 01:00:14.170 --> 01:00:17.269 all the time. That's amazing, though. Now, there 01:00:17.269 --> 01:00:21.269 may be some future musicians listening to this 01:00:21.269 --> 01:00:24.070 podcast. So I would like to know if you have 01:00:24.070 --> 01:00:27.090 any advice that you'd like to give. to younger 01:00:27.090 --> 01:00:29.510 up -and -coming artists that have an interest 01:00:29.510 --> 01:00:32.650 in the kindy scene so to speak what advice would 01:00:32.650 --> 01:00:35.349 you give for someone who dare i would say is 01:00:35.349 --> 01:00:38.110 is a veteran and at the top of the game of of 01:00:38.110 --> 01:00:42.650 this genre i think the thing that i felt like 01:00:42.650 --> 01:00:46.369 really helped me get to a place where i was happy 01:00:46.369 --> 01:00:49.250 and what i was doing was doing what made me happy 01:00:49.250 --> 01:00:54.480 so if you're listening and making music for kids 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:59.239 makes you feel good and you enjoy it, then just 01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:02.539 keep doing it and keep paying attention to what 01:01:02.539 --> 01:01:05.699 it is that's working. I do. I think I said it 01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:07.880 once in the interview already, like just I was 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:10.679 following kind of what was working for me. And 01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:13.280 to me, that's pretty much the same thing as what 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:15.800 makes me happy. Like if it's working, then usually 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:18.300 I'm feeling pretty good about it. It's not always 01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:20.739 true for everybody, but I do think that if you 01:01:20.739 --> 01:01:22.809 have both of those things, like. you notice, 01:01:22.909 --> 01:01:26.789 oh, this really like helps me connect to kids. 01:01:27.610 --> 01:01:30.650 And I really like doing it. Okay, let's do some 01:01:30.650 --> 01:01:32.670 more of that. Let's just keep following what 01:01:32.670 --> 01:01:35.650 works for you. Because I think the path is so 01:01:35.650 --> 01:01:39.349 changing so quickly, like the way like we were 01:01:39.349 --> 01:01:42.769 talking about how people consume music, all of 01:01:42.769 --> 01:01:45.969 that changes so fast. If you have that core of 01:01:45.969 --> 01:01:48.460 like, this is what something that I love. And 01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:50.420 that I feel like I'm good at. If you can put 01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:53.199 those two things together and follow them, then 01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:55.880 you can kind of weather whatever changes around 01:01:55.880 --> 01:01:59.420 you, right? So I think that's really a good place 01:01:59.420 --> 01:02:02.739 to start from anyway. Brilliant. Awesome. Lori 01:02:02.739 --> 01:02:05.840 Berkner, this has been an absolute pleasure from 01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:08.780 a parent, from a radio perspective. Thank you 01:02:08.780 --> 01:02:11.519 for all the music you've provided to us and our 01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:13.780 families over the years. And thank you so much 01:02:13.780 --> 01:02:16.380 for being a part of our episode this evening. 01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:19.579 Oh, thank you. It really was totally my pleasure. 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:49.559 my weekly mixtape. You can use the contact page 01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:53.400 over at my weekly mixtape .com, or you can join 01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.659 the mixtaper community at patrion .com forward 01:02:56.659 --> 01:03:00.159 slash my weekly mixtape. It's free to join. And 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:02.119 there's several tiers there. If you'd like to 01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:04.300 support the show a little extra, but none of 01:03:04.300 --> 01:03:07.659 that is expected. I just appreciate any support 01:03:07.659 --> 01:03:10.780 you can show for the show, which includes if 01:03:10.780 --> 01:03:13.400 you're listening on Apple podcasts, Spotify, 01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:16.889 or YouTube. Please leave a five -star review 01:03:16.889 --> 01:03:20.050 or a comment so that way other music fans can 01:03:20.050 --> 01:03:22.849 discover the show because, you know, algorithms. 01:03:23.050 --> 01:03:25.889 And if you'd like to explore the entire back 01:03:25.889 --> 01:03:29.489 catalog of My Weekly Mixtape, you can do so over 01:03:29.489 --> 01:03:33.869 at myweeklymixtape .com. My name is Brian Colburn. 01:03:33.989 --> 01:03:36.469 This has been My Weekly Mixtape. And until next 01:03:36.469 --> 01:03:38.349 time, enjoy the tunes.