WEBVTT

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What is going on, friends? Welcome to My Weekly

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Mixtape, a show that takes the classic mixtape

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approach to building a modern playlist. I'm your

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host, Brian Colburn, and we are wrapping up 2025

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by celebrating two of the biggest interviews

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in My Weekly Mixtape history, both of which happened

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earlier this year. However, because of the way

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I approach interviews, They're still just as

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relevant today as when they first aired. And

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I am excited to revisit them because both guests

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are from one of my favorite hard rock bands on

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the planet, that being Shinedown. And I was blessed

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enough to have both Barry Kirch and Eric Bass

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on the program to talk all things Shinedown,

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including the history of the band, what's going

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on in their camp right now. Eric's first ever

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solo album, I Had a Name, the graphic novel that

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accompanies it, the songs they released in 2025,

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including, just to name a few, Dance Kid Dance,

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365 and The Killing Fields, and drop a lot of

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hints, a lot of breadcrumbs for Shinedown 8,

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which is coming your way sometime in 2026. And

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we got the dirt on several brand new tracks.

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during these sit -downs. So what better way to

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get excited for 2026 than to run this as we lead

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into 2026. Now, before we get to the main event,

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if you like what you're hearing on My Weekly

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Mixtape, please send me an email, myweeklymixtape

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at gmail .com. Send me suggestions for episode

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topics you'd like to hear in the new year. Connect

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with me on social media at my weekly mixtape

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on all the social media haunts. If you'd like

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to go the next step further, join the mixtaper

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community at patrion .com. forward slash myweeklymixtape.

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It's free to join, and there's other tiers if

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you'd like to get some extra special goodies.

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And then finally, connect with me over on the

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main hub for My Weekly Mixtape, which is myweeklymixtape

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.com. And no matter where you're listening, Apple

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Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, YouTube, if

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you can leave a five -star review, thumbs up,

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send good vibes my way, drop a comment about

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what you liked about the episode. All those things

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help other music fans find the show. And that

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is the way an independent creator like myself

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can build this program and take it to the next

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level. I appreciate every bit of support that

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you guys have shown this show throughout the

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years. And I promise you guys in 2026, I'm going

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to do my best to continue to up the ante each

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and every week. Now, without further ado, let's

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dive into the sound of Shinedown kicking off.

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with my sit -down with the one and only Barry

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Kirch, where I started off by asking him my favorite

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first -time guest question. What does the word

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mixtape mean to you? I guess, you know, I'm a

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prodigy of the 70s and child of the 80s. For

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me, mixtape was the thing. And to me, it's two

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things. Either you're making the mixtape for

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your girlfriend, the love of your life, and you're

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getting all the songs you can to... prove to

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her your love but for me more importantly it

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was uh getting those songs that you heard on

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the radio and sitting there in a bedroom with

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your little cassette player going record okay

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got it got that song oh that's a new song from

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this because back in those days you couldn't

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you know you had to listen to the radio to hear

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that song and once you had it on that tape you

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had that song so it's the it's the nostalgia

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and joy of really having to dig deep to search

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out music which you don't have to do anymore

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That's part of the reason I do this show each

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week is to try to bring back some of that joy

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of finding that song. Because when you look for

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things on Spotify, everything's so instantaneous

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that the joy of discovering that new song, it's

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almost watered down compared to the way it was

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when we were growing up. I agree. And I guess

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I'm a curmudgeon in that way because I don't

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like the instant gratification of the Internet

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these days and social media and all that kind

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of stuff, though it's a wonderful tool. i get

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frustrated sometimes because i do miss those

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times of being introduced to a new band and it's

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like oh my friend had this cd that he passed

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me and i finally heard it and was like oh wow

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what is this you know that's how i got introduced

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to nine inch nails was i was a i'm an 80s metalhead

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i'm playing tennis in high school i'm on a tennis

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trip and my friend bow win he's pretty hate machine

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cd And I didn't give it back to him. I kept listening

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to it, listening to it. And that's, you know,

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that's why I'm a diehard Nine Inch Nails fan,

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because that was a pivotal moment in my life

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that changed my taste in music. And it's those

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happy accidents or those neat surprises that

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make music so much fun and personal for yourselves.

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And that it is. So let's now dive into the reason

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we're here tonight. And that is to talk all things

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Shinedown. And I'd like to kind of start from

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the beginning, maybe a top level approach here.

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Sure. Could you talk about the evolution of the

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band's music that's taken place over the last

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24 years and counting? Oh, wow. How much time

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do we have? You know, it's grown. I look back

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on it now. And when Shinedown started, I was

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25 years old. And I played like a 25 year old

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person, a 25 year old musician. I only had that

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much experience getting in there. And the rest

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of us as well. We were all around the same age.

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Brent was a little younger. Jason at the time

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and Brad at the time were a couple of years older.

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So we were right within a year or two of each

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other. And we were playing what we felt at the

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time and what we grew up with. And the early

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sound of Shinedown, I think, had. Quite a bit

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more Southern influence that came from Jason

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and Brad growing up in the Jacksonville area,

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in the Northeast Florida area. I grew up in the

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panhandle of Florida, but I'm a military brat,

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so my exposure was different. They grew up deep

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in that scene of Southern rock and Skinner and

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stuff and all those things. And Brent being a

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Tennessee boy who grew up primarily listening

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not to Southern rock, though he's a Southern

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rock fan, but he also listened to a lot of Motown

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and things like that. He learned to sing by singing

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Otis Redding. because his parents were very religious

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and he would you know when they found his poison

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cassette in the in his house they threw it out

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and said you need to listen to this you know

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so it wasn't allowed so what was cool about shine

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down especially in those early days was the mix

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of those things and the excitement of being new

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to professional studios and and new to that side

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of the craft that i think has been honed over

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the years and then it grew you know the second

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record was a total different journey it was more

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trippy and things of that nature and it was kind

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of more raw because we were doing it almost home

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studio based because we didn't have a lot of

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time to do it because the label's like okay first

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record's done we need another one in six months

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and you know we were having to write and get

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it done and there was a lot of pressure because

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though the first record did really well it didn't

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do well enough to where they weren't worried

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about us having a second record you know it was

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like we got to get through this hump or we might

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not be here And the band at the time was pretty

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tumultuous. There was a lot of infighting. There

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was a lot of things going on that made it difficult

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to be, even though we were a band of brothers,

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it was just a hard time. And then growing into

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Sound of Madness is when I kind of everything

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changed. And there was, you know, Dave Bassett

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was brought in with Brent to write some stuff.

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And, you know, the writing, I think, became more

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sophisticated. Brent really focused more on his

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lyrics in there. He had something to prove. All

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of a sudden, this thing went off in his brain.

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and there was more of something to prove like

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you listen to sound of madness the song compared

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to like 45 45 was like uh the world's looking

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in at me santa madison's like i'm gonna be that

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person and that's what really changed the trajectory

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of our career and then you know also we had new

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members coming in so when we got to like amaryllis

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and threat and attention up through planet it

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was really having the you know eric is a juggernaut

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of a songwriter and player and engineer and producer

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you know he's produced the last two and a half

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records and he's produced this one that we're

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working on now so that changed our sound but

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i think for the better we became more open to

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well if we want to put a keyboard on the song

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or we want to put a drum machine on the song

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why not you know we don't it's always going to

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come down to vocals bass drums guitar but we

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were willing to just throw caution to the wind

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and go this is what the song needs i don't care

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if it needs a mandolin and me clapping in the

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background and that's the drum track that's the

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drum track and i think we got better as songwriters

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and better as players you i would hope anybody

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who's in this industry continues to grow as a

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player you know i still take lessons i still

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work on my craft there's still a lifetime's worth

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of things to learn on my drums and to learn in

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the studio and how to make these things happen

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you know every time i get with eric like dude

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you're taking me to college every time i learn

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a new technique and i learned this thing and

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we learned so much early you know god rest his

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soul but but doug the uh engineer on sound of

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madness amaryllis and attention attention and

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i think a song or two on a threat unfortunately

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passed away and his knowledge was scary because

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he's an la guy he grew up in those studios he

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just knew how to engineer he'd be like what do

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you mean you haven't tried this mic technique

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where i take this crappy radio shack mic and

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i put it against this wall and i'd you know blow

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it up with a compressor but check out what it

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does to the drums when you turn it up and you're

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like god how did you think of that you know so

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you learn over the years and you hone your craft

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and you know in a very long i can be long -winded

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but a very long story short i think we've just

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become better at our personal instruments better

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song crafters and a little bit less cautious

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a little bit more of I don't give a shit this

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is the song we're going to do this is the songs

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that you're going to get from Shinedown and we

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never you can never change Brent's voice right

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and never leave Shinedown it still sounds like

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Shinedown but I don't want to make leave a whisper

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again I love that time period and I have nothing

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but fond memories and I have no regrets over

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our whole lexicon of music but I don't want to

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make that again I got to make what we're feeling

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right now and that's that's the most important

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thing You brought up something about working

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with Eric and what he's brought to you. And I

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talked to him about his album that's being released

00:10:17.580 --> 00:10:20.340
this week as well. But I'd like to talk about

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your writing and approach to recording drums,

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because one thing that I mentioned to Eric that

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has always impressed me about what you bring

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to the album is you're always willing to play

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to the strength of the song, no matter what that

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is, be it the timing changes in unity. to where

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you kind of sit back in a song like A Symptom

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of Being Human from Planet Zero. How do you decide?

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Is it during the writing or the recording session

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where you should be laying into a song and bringing

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that metal background into play or sitting back

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and letting kind of the song breathe and speak

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for itself? It definitely becomes song dependent.

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and it happens in the studio when it's time to

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track the drums because a lot of times within

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shine down i get presented a demo form and it's

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going to have you know a finger drummed programmed

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kind of placeholder that goes okay i see where

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this is going and then it's up to me to form

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what's going to happen in the fills and things

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of that nature because i am unabashedly not apologetic

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to say that i am not a songwriter i do not have

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that ability i think in rhythms i don't think

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in melody i just i am a proud drummer and that

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being said you know early in your career as a

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drummer if you are a drummer and they're taking

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this you want to play all those cool things you

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learned and look at me look at me look at me

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look at this cool thing i did look at these stick

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twirls all these things and there is a place

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for someone and maybe certain bands that you're

00:11:41.269 --> 00:11:44.950
in you know if you listen to like a rush mastodon

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whatever you name it those drummers have a little

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bit more freedom to go look at me look at me

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and they play a little bit more wild stuff uh

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that's not what shine down is and for me probably

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when it goes back to even the last question you

00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:57.820
asked about the evolution of Shinedown and their

00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:01.299
songwriting, I've learned humility in my music

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and in my playing. And I think that's the most

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important thing a drummer can learn is humility

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in your playing to play the song. You are not

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the star. You are the drummer. You are the support.

00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:13.620
And you should wear that as a badge of courage

00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:14.980
and a badge of honor. That's something to be

00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:17.399
proud of, to sit back and go, I'm going to hold

00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.320
this band down and make that song feel as good

00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.340
as that song should feel. Every single time.

00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.299
So when I'm there live and I'm locked in and

00:12:25.299 --> 00:12:27.899
everything's vibing, I can look at my guys who

00:12:27.899 --> 00:12:29.460
could be a little bit crazier, maybe get off

00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:31.220
a little bit on the guitar or, you know, something

00:12:31.220 --> 00:12:34.639
falls apart. I'm not going to F up because I'm

00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.000
holding it down for my band. I'm the support.

00:12:37.419 --> 00:12:39.120
And when it comes to recording, that's when that

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:40.639
really happens. Like, what does this song need?

00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:42.480
And we'll talk about it sometimes, especially

00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:44.039
with Eric and I, we have such a good working

00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:46.740
relationship at this point. that, you know, he's

00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.240
not afraid to go, oh, Barry's going to get pissed

00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.500
because I want to change this. It's like, no,

00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:51.139
what's your idea? What do you hear? What are

00:12:51.139 --> 00:12:53.580
you hearing that I'm not hearing? Or vice versa.

00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.000
I go to him and go, hey, man, it'd be really

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.279
cool if we did a little clap in this area or

00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:00.259
a tambourine here. What do you think about a

00:13:00.259 --> 00:13:02.120
shaker tambourine mix? And he'll go, that's too

00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:03.620
much because it's going to step on the vocals

00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:05.720
here. Oh, you're right, because you already hear

00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:07.539
the vocals and I haven't heard them yet. We're

00:13:07.539 --> 00:13:10.179
doing the drum track. So it's those kind of conversations,

00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:12.980
especially when you're starting from the ether

00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:15.330
to go. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. But

00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:17.610
that fill, as cool as it was, can you shorten

00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:20.250
it a bar? Why? It was a cool fill. He's like,

00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:22.190
yeah, it was. But the vocal is still going right

00:13:22.190 --> 00:13:23.950
there and you're stepping all over it. Cool.

00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:25.990
Let's do a shorter fill or a longer fill. Hey,

00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:28.570
man, we need this to build into this chorus where

00:13:28.570 --> 00:13:29.990
everything's just going to come in and hammer

00:13:29.990 --> 00:13:32.409
you in the face. That's what I'm going to do.

00:13:32.529 --> 00:13:34.409
And that's my job is to service the song. And

00:13:34.409 --> 00:13:36.950
that's I pride myself on that. And my favorite

00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:39.029
drummers are our groove drummers more so than

00:13:39.029 --> 00:13:41.029
the show off drummers as much as I appreciate

00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:43.559
their talents. I'd much rather listen to Charlie

00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.440
Watts from the stones. God rest his soul. Just

00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.080
lay it down or Steve Jordan, just laying it down.

00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:50.899
That makes you feel something. Drums are supposed

00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:52.580
to make you feel something and just nod your

00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:55.080
head. And that's what I want to do. Oh, Steve

00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.519
Jordan, man. I saw him this past summer with

00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:00.659
the Rolling Stones. And as sad as I am that Charlie

00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:04.159
wasn't back there, he holds down a groove like

00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:07.559
no other. And he brought this swagger to the

00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:09.340
Rolling Stones that I don't want to say that.

00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:11.750
is better because it's not better. It's just

00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:13.690
different. And there's something about his playing

00:14:13.690 --> 00:14:15.850
that it's distinctly Steve Jordan. So I love

00:14:15.850 --> 00:14:17.789
that. Yeah, I agree. And I think it brought his,

00:14:17.850 --> 00:14:20.669
he brought. Not that he's a super young man,

00:14:20.730 --> 00:14:22.730
but he brought youth back to the stones. You

00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:24.269
know, I think there was an article. It was either

00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:27.070
Jordan was talking or it was Mick Jagger. But

00:14:27.070 --> 00:14:28.950
he was like, yeah, also we're playing the tempos

00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:30.669
that we used to play back in the 60s. And we

00:14:30.669 --> 00:14:32.250
hadn't done that in a while because, you know,

00:14:32.269 --> 00:14:34.070
we're all getting older. And Steve Jordan's like,

00:14:34.149 --> 00:14:36.009
no, this is the tempo you used to do it at. And

00:14:36.009 --> 00:14:37.690
so it's pushing them, which is entertaining,

00:14:37.870 --> 00:14:39.509
too. It's neat to see how those things happen,

00:14:39.590 --> 00:14:42.850
you know? Oh, 100 percent. Yeah. You said something

00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:44.470
before that I actually want to challenge you

00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:46.409
on because you said that you're not a writer.

00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:48.899
But I'm going to challenge that a little bit

00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:52.559
because I have dents in my steering wheel from

00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:56.360
the sound of madness and adrenaline that say

00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.139
otherwise, because the drums really are a piece

00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:05.759
of what makes those songs so massive and so emotional.

00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.659
The opening drums in the sound of madness are

00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:12.690
so thunderous that when that kicks. you feel

00:15:12.690 --> 00:15:15.570
it in your bones. And I want to applaud that

00:15:15.570 --> 00:15:17.750
contribution that you bring to the band. Thank

00:15:17.750 --> 00:15:18.909
you. Because, you know, the drummer's got to

00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:20.830
get some love every now and then. And as a bass

00:15:20.830 --> 00:15:23.529
player, I look out for my rhythm section, man.

00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:25.830
That's right. I'll take that love and I appreciate

00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:28.230
it. I guess in the industry side of the things,

00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:30.450
drums is not part of songwriting. How that happened

00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:32.370
over the years, I have no idea. But in the industry,

00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:34.970
the business side of things, doesn't matter what

00:15:34.970 --> 00:15:36.429
I play, it's not part of the songwriting. It's

00:15:36.429 --> 00:15:39.190
about the melody. And so maybe that's a small

00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:41.250
point of contention with me because I think it

00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:44.360
takes, all sums to make the song great. You know,

00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.440
if a different drummer played on second chance,

00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:48.059
it might've been a different fill there. And

00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:50.419
that's one of my most recognized fills. It's

00:15:50.419 --> 00:15:52.940
simple, super simple, but it sticks out. And

00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:54.419
that's a part in the song that really makes that

00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:57.139
song what it is. So poignant, absolutely poignant.

00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:59.720
Now on the flip of the heavier side of things,

00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:01.679
when you have a song, like a symptom of being

00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.840
human, the first time I heard that song, the

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:08.570
hair on my arm stood up, not just from. the lyric

00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:10.490
perspective, because it's a song that hits home

00:16:10.490 --> 00:16:13.309
for a lot of people and it's made a lot of important

00:16:13.309 --> 00:16:17.830
conversations happen. But musically, the fact

00:16:17.830 --> 00:16:20.190
that you just sat back and kind of did this shuffle

00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:24.629
beat made the song a hundred times more powerful

00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:28.090
than had you brought the whole kid into the fold.

00:16:28.169 --> 00:16:29.970
And I'd love to know the mindset behind that

00:16:29.970 --> 00:16:33.830
because the song is perfect in its simplicity

00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:36.009
almost. And I don't mean to make that sound as

00:16:36.009 --> 00:16:37.899
a negative. No, no, no. I think some of the best

00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:39.679
songs out there are perfect in their simplicity

00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:42.120
because it's a tendency for all of us, especially

00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:44.299
when producing and recording to throw the kitchen

00:16:44.299 --> 00:16:45.919
sink at it. And then sometimes you just have

00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.980
too much. I think for that song, I remember vividly

00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:51.759
being in the studio with Eric and talking about

00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:53.639
it because the demo was quite a bit different,

00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:55.440
even maybe a little more sparse. We just had

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.519
it wasn't wasn't an afterthought. The vocals

00:16:57.519 --> 00:16:59.220
were there and the melody was there. But the

00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:01.580
music, the backing music really was just very

00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:05.180
basic and rudimentary in a demo format. And in

00:17:05.180 --> 00:17:06.779
talking about it, it's like we need the song

00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:09.460
to grow because tempo wise, if it didn't grow,

00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:11.940
it could fall flat easily, even though the lyrics

00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:14.059
are so good. It needs to just constantly grow

00:17:14.059 --> 00:17:16.079
as the song is going on to keep the interest

00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.240
of the listener. And we looked at it as I remember

00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.180
he and I talking and I don't know which one of

00:17:22.180 --> 00:17:23.660
us said it first, but we're like, we need to

00:17:23.660 --> 00:17:26.160
treat this like an orchestra. And so I turned

00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.400
on my high school and college brain when I played

00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.240
in the orchestras and stuff and went, we're going

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.799
to treat this like this. So I didn't even set

00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.200
up a drum kit. All those ports were recorded.

00:17:34.829 --> 00:17:38.269
as if it were a concert setting. Upright bass

00:17:38.269 --> 00:17:41.190
drum, concert snare drum, cymbals were done afterwards.

00:17:41.369 --> 00:17:44.369
It was absolutely done as if I were in a orchestra.

00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:46.630
And that's, I think, what gave the lift to the

00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:49.630
song. You listen to certain orchestra pieces

00:17:49.630 --> 00:17:51.769
where when the drums finally come in, it's like,

00:17:51.849 --> 00:17:54.890
oh, oh, it just hits you. That was the whole

00:17:54.890 --> 00:17:58.289
premise behind Symptom. I know that you did not

00:17:58.289 --> 00:18:00.529
have any part of the lyric writing in this one.

00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:03.029
I know that that was between Eric and Brent,

00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.440
Heavier subject, mental health, anxiety. It's

00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.119
something a lot of people struggle with. I personally

00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:14.640
struggle with it. And there's such a humble connection

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.319
in these lyrics to these songs. And I'm curious

00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.140
to know if these songs are as meaningful to the

00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:24.920
band as the fans that have really found hope

00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:30.859
and purpose from these words. Yes and no. I think

00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.819
it hits differently. For the fans, it's something

00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:35.640
they can relate to and take as their own as a

00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.420
hey, they're writing this about me and it's an

00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:40.819
outlet for us. It's the therapy of getting those

00:18:40.819 --> 00:18:42.380
feelings out because it's a true story about

00:18:42.380 --> 00:18:45.160
us. You know, that's the one thing I love about

00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.380
my band. The one thing I cherish about Shinedown

00:18:48.380 --> 00:18:50.619
and always have is the lyrics are true stories,

00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:54.240
every last one of them. And it's not about, you

00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.400
know, just making something up. So that song

00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.480
is about mental health because it's about Eric's

00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.240
head. And Brent looking at him and them looking

00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.220
at each other. And it's about dealing with that

00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:06.920
and realizing that all of us have our issues

00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:08.660
and the things we go through on any day. You

00:19:08.660 --> 00:19:10.200
know, I'm kind of the rock of the band. I'm the

00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.440
one that takes care of my boys. And I'm the one

00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.559
that all the problems for my band and crew come

00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:16.380
to me. They always come through me because I

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.059
get to talk to or something. But everybody, I'm

00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:21.480
that person that I'm the vampire. They just dump

00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.720
it all on me. And I'm there to support my guys

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.940
because, yes, I have my good days and bad days.

00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:30.109
And the human as well. But I'm a little more

00:19:30.109 --> 00:19:32.049
solid than they are. I don't deal with the same

00:19:32.049 --> 00:19:34.109
things they do. You know, Brent with his past

00:19:34.109 --> 00:19:37.069
addiction issues, Eric with his depression, that's

00:19:37.069 --> 00:19:40.390
just ungodly. And even Zach, he's a very emotional

00:19:40.390 --> 00:19:42.609
guy. And I think all artists really truly are

00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:45.329
led by emotion more so than most. I think we

00:19:45.329 --> 00:19:48.329
have to be to be creative. And I think, you know,

00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:51.970
that's why Eric and Brent are so good at lyrics.

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.960
Because I think they're so emotionally damaged

00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.079
that they can just get it out there and that's

00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.519
their therapy. So I think, are these songs equally

00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.099
as important to us? Yes, in that it is our therapy

00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:03.920
and we're able to get it out there. But when

00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.119
people outside of us, when the fans take ownership,

00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:08.839
we have a different love with that song because

00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.039
now we get to see it affect other people and

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.740
like, holy shit, we put that together and they

00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:16.440
get to feel that. And when I look at the audience

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.940
and I see people crying or laughing or jumping

00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:23.079
and that emotion. It's like a drug for me in

00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.680
that we created this for you and you're able

00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.680
to feel something and have an escape from your

00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:31.700
everyday life for just a moment. Best thing ever.

00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.759
What was the first Shinedown song for you personally

00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.240
that made you realize that the band had something

00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:46.840
special? 45. All the way back. Yeah. Because

00:20:46.840 --> 00:20:49.539
I was given that in a demo form for my audition

00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:51.440
for the band. I was given that and lacerated

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.380
off the first record because I was the, I think,

00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.779
seventh drummer to try out. And so we go into

00:20:55.779 --> 00:20:57.460
a practice space here in Jacksonville, Florida,

00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.480
and they give me those two songs and learn these,

00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.380
learned them, played them. I go, good, cool.

00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.500
You know the songs. Tomorrow, we want you to

00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:06.839
go in a studio here locally and just record a

00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:08.619
demo with real drums on it. Because at that point,

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.779
it was just a demo without drums or whatever.

00:21:11.299 --> 00:21:14.960
Great. So we're going to do 45. No problem. go

00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.619
in there with my busted up kit old heads because

00:21:17.619 --> 00:21:20.859
i wasn't prepared uh some crack cymbals but it

00:21:20.859 --> 00:21:22.480
had a vibe and i went in there and i recorded

00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:28.279
45. and it just felt good and it was great fast

00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:30.599
forward we end up in la we you know finally get

00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:32.980
the green light from atlantic records we're finally

00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:35.920
found a name for ourselves we're in la recording

00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.500
the first record and we record this massive version

00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:41.619
of 45 and put an orchestra on it did all these

00:21:41.619 --> 00:21:44.000
things and it was great Getting ready to release

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.519
the record, our A &R guy goes, man, there's something

00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.740
special about the demo version of 45. And we

00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:52.759
all agreed. And that's the one you hear on the

00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.500
record. That's my audition. Wow. That's how I

00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:58.720
got into this band was that recording that song

00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:01.440
and that busted up kit. That's the original demo

00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.660
version of 45 that changed everything. But we

00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:06.599
all knew there was something in that song. And

00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.619
that was the first time I knew this band has

00:22:08.619 --> 00:22:13.470
something. Wow. That reminds me of. When I read

00:22:13.470 --> 00:22:16.250
the story about Dimebag using the four track

00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:19.009
demo for the opening riff to Cowboys from Hell

00:22:19.009 --> 00:22:22.049
on the actual album, because they couldn't replicate

00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:25.109
the sound that they got from that cassette in

00:22:25.109 --> 00:22:28.029
the studio. Sometimes you just get handed a gift

00:22:28.029 --> 00:22:31.049
and you just got to take it. Well, as the band

00:22:31.049 --> 00:22:33.849
is building up to Shinedown 8, there are a ton

00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:38.509
of songs from the catalog that have become staples.

00:22:38.569 --> 00:22:41.960
So much so that you have. More songs than you

00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.819
can play in any given night at a concert, unless

00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:48.180
you did the three, four hours for a night. I

00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:49.640
don't think Brent's voice would last three, four

00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:54.059
hours. But there are some tracks that I think

00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:56.500
are important to the band's legacy personally,

00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.500
maybe, but Adrenaline, the opening track from

00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:03.119
Amaryllis, or I Dare You from Us and Them that

00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.559
haven't been broken out over the last few tour

00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.380
cycles. How does the band make the difficult

00:23:08.380 --> 00:23:11.299
decision over which songs get kind of shuffled

00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:15.140
in and out when crafting that tour set list as

00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:20.319
the catalog continues to grow? It's very difficult.

00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.220
We fight like cats and dogs about it sometimes.

00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:25.660
Zach is really good at putting a set list together.

00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:27.180
And a lot of times he'll come up with like three

00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:28.799
or four. And then we kind of talk about those

00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.819
because Eric and I just you guys just tell us

00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:34.759
what you want to play. Cause I'm tired of arguing

00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:36.559
with you and the songs I want to hear, maybe

00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.140
not the ones. And then we really have to look

00:23:38.140 --> 00:23:40.299
at our fans and, and you can, you know, it's

00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:42.460
one of the great things about the internet now

00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:45.059
is you can look at the plays of songs. You can

00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.440
look at the views of videos and you can go that,

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:49.500
you know, who would have thought that, you know,

00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:52.519
the monsters video is one of our biggest watched

00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:54.740
songs of all time. Well, we have to play that

00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:57.029
song. But we want to play some of the new stuff.

00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:58.910
And I'd love to play Adrenaline again. That's

00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:00.990
a fun one for me to play live. Oh, it's a badass

00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:03.650
trumpet. I'd love to play Black Cadillac. Black

00:24:03.650 --> 00:24:05.849
Cadillac was a blast. And that actually was a

00:24:05.849 --> 00:24:08.009
single in the UK. So when we go there, we can

00:24:08.009 --> 00:24:09.490
play that song over here. People don't really

00:24:09.490 --> 00:24:11.930
know it. It's a deep cut. Cyanide Sweet Tooth

00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:13.670
off of Sound of Madness. Another fun one that

00:24:13.670 --> 00:24:16.029
I love. It's just getting harder and harder.

00:24:16.450 --> 00:24:18.430
And you can only fit so much in 90 minutes. And

00:24:18.430 --> 00:24:20.450
there's curfews. So we can only go up to the

00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:24.309
curfew. I'd love to play three more songs. All

00:24:24.309 --> 00:24:26.509
right, so I have to follow up then. You're giving

00:24:26.509 --> 00:24:28.430
full carte blanche. The band just says, you know

00:24:28.430 --> 00:24:30.869
what, Barry? It's on you. Come up with a set

00:24:30.869 --> 00:24:33.930
list tonight. Would the set list be similar to

00:24:33.930 --> 00:24:36.549
what people see on any given night, or would

00:24:36.549 --> 00:24:38.690
you be throwing out some personal curveballs?

00:24:39.589 --> 00:24:42.630
It would definitely not be the norm. There would

00:24:42.630 --> 00:24:45.869
be curveballs. I can tell you there's certain

00:24:45.869 --> 00:24:47.490
songs I wouldn't play. I don't want to hear Simple

00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:49.450
Man again. It's not even our song. I don't want

00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:51.029
to hear it anymore. I know the fans love it.

00:24:51.049 --> 00:24:53.250
I'm over it. I'm over not playing during that

00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:56.509
five minute escapade of a Skinner song. That

00:24:56.509 --> 00:24:58.450
one's gone. So it's easier to tell you what I

00:24:58.450 --> 00:25:01.130
guess I would get rid of for a minute. 45, as

00:25:01.130 --> 00:25:04.089
much as my heart loves that song, kind of overplaying

00:25:04.089 --> 00:25:06.890
it. Let me put something else in. I would probably

00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:09.289
play I Dare You Again. I would play Cyanide.

00:25:09.450 --> 00:25:12.230
I get some deep cuts in there. One of Brent's

00:25:12.230 --> 00:25:13.970
least favorite songs that we've ever recorded.

00:25:14.049 --> 00:25:16.430
Better version off the first record. I actually

00:25:16.430 --> 00:25:17.970
really enjoy playing because the drum parts on

00:25:17.970 --> 00:25:19.549
there a lot of fun. So I'd make him sing that

00:25:19.549 --> 00:25:22.500
again. And then. You know what I do is I do a,

00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:26.180
I would probably do a poll on our socials and

00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:28.400
go, what do you guys really want to hear that

00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.640
are the deep cuts? I know you want to hear Second

00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.240
Chance. I know you want to hear Symptom. I know

00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.279
you want to hear Sound of Madness. And I get

00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:36.900
it. We should play those songs. What are the

00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.019
other ones? And I'd build a set list completely

00:25:39.019 --> 00:25:40.980
off of that. And then I'd end on a big song.

00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:44.660
I was going to say, I told Eric that one of the

00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:47.859
songs that I have for the last four years wondered.

00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:50.630
how it didn't make attention attention was a

00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:53.369
new way to die. The song that ended up on the

00:25:53.369 --> 00:25:57.109
Walmart exclusive download edition and Japan

00:25:57.109 --> 00:26:00.329
got that track on the CD, but us in the US didn't.

00:26:00.529 --> 00:26:04.250
That song is a, pardon the pun, an absolute monster.

00:26:04.369 --> 00:26:07.190
That would be my vote. That would be fun because

00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:09.069
we've never played that together as a band live

00:26:09.069 --> 00:26:12.990
ever. Really? That was recorded. And then we

00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.089
never looked at it again. I've never played that

00:26:15.089 --> 00:26:17.109
song with my band members all in one room ever.

00:26:17.710 --> 00:26:20.130
So that would actually be a lot of fun. Well,

00:26:20.190 --> 00:26:22.650
on the flip side to the deeper cuts, are there

00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:26.690
any Shinedown songs that you guys could never

00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:29.650
skip for fear of the chaos that might ensue?

00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.890
Second Chance, for sure. Symptom, I think at

00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:37.210
this point, Monsters. Unfortunately, Simple Man,

00:26:37.329 --> 00:26:40.089
because we tried that one. We dropped it once

00:26:40.089 --> 00:26:44.850
and we got a lot of backlash. Enemies. especially

00:26:44.850 --> 00:26:47.490
live. People love that song live. And it's a

00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:50.230
fun one to play. I don't mind playing it. Unity.

00:26:50.349 --> 00:26:52.990
And I don't enjoy playing Unity. I don't. Really?

00:26:53.250 --> 00:26:55.390
I'm not going to lie. That surprises me because

00:26:55.390 --> 00:26:57.170
there's something that's going on in the song.

00:26:57.230 --> 00:26:59.549
I don't want to say it's necessarily the timing.

00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:01.250
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. It kind

00:27:01.250 --> 00:27:04.349
of does that shift, which sometimes I find distracting

00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:07.069
for my own self when I'm playing because that's

00:27:07.069 --> 00:27:08.470
one of those where I played for what the song

00:27:08.470 --> 00:27:11.069
needed, but it wasn't exactly a natural motion

00:27:11.069 --> 00:27:13.799
for me. What I wanted to play in my head was

00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:15.900
more like coming to that compromise when we were

00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:18.079
creating that song in the studio. Like we needed

00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:20.420
to do this. Can you play this? Yeah, but I wouldn't

00:27:20.420 --> 00:27:22.559
play it that way. Yeah, but we need you to play

00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.200
that. Cool. Let me play that. So when you take

00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.559
it to a live, I'm always going, this doesn't

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.579
feel natural to me. It's not what I would have

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:30.279
necessarily done. Not that it'd be very different,

00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.460
but it's like writing with your opposite hand

00:27:33.460 --> 00:27:36.200
for a second. I wouldn't have done that, but

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:37.859
that's what the song needs. So I'm going to have

00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.119
to do that. So that's why Unity kind of gets

00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:42.170
under my skin. But it's a crowd favorite that

00:27:42.170 --> 00:27:43.910
and it's a great song and it should be played

00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:46.549
and it's got a great message. All right. Well,

00:27:46.630 --> 00:27:48.410
I want to turn the conversation to philanthropy

00:27:48.410 --> 00:27:51.490
for a moment here. Last year, the band released

00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:54.529
hot sauces that were in conjunction with the

00:27:54.529 --> 00:27:57.089
Torchbearer company, and that included attention,

00:27:57.329 --> 00:28:01.180
attention, mango habanero sauce. symptom chipotle

00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:04.640
garlic and devour pineapple jerk with a portion

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.819
of the proceeds of these going to musicians on

00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:10.779
call which is a non -profit that brings live

00:28:10.779 --> 00:28:14.039
music to the bedsides of patients families and

00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.539
caregivers and hospitals can you talk about the

00:28:17.539 --> 00:28:21.279
band's mindset about giving back over the years

00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.119
and why you guys do ventures such as this one

00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:28.359
I think when you are lucky enough to put yourself

00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:29.960
in a position to where you can give back, you

00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:34.519
should. And the four of us being from the backgrounds

00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:36.440
we come from, from being, you know, I guess,

00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:41.059
you know, we grew up with good parents that taught

00:28:41.059 --> 00:28:44.339
us values, you know, and taught us to give instead

00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:47.200
of take as much as you possibly can, you know.

00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.440
And now that we have the ability to, why wouldn't

00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:55.400
we? You know, it's I think you should. And I

00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.319
think it. warms your heart probably more than

00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.460
anything else you know it's it's just what you

00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.200
should do if you have the opportunity you know

00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:04.799
if you can drop a nickel in a bucket for somebody

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.279
that really needs it then just do it and don't

00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.940
tell everybody that you do you know i don't go

00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:10.559
out there and say hey i've done this and this

00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.119
and this and this for charity we've done a lot

00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.460
for different places we have it's not about the

00:29:15.460 --> 00:29:16.900
attention you get from us just about doing it

00:29:16.900 --> 00:29:20.150
and i've got the ability now And I want to bring

00:29:20.150 --> 00:29:23.309
that up because back in 2019, I caught the band's

00:29:23.309 --> 00:29:25.430
tour in Guilford, New Hampshire, when it was

00:29:25.430 --> 00:29:28.750
Shine Down, Bad Flower, Dinosaur Pile Up and

00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:32.089
Broken Hands. And on that tour, I'll never forget

00:29:32.089 --> 00:29:35.450
this. Dinosaur Pile Up had the band's stage banner

00:29:35.450 --> 00:29:38.410
draped over their amplifiers because it had broken.

00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:41.069
And my wife and I talked about that. I said,

00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:43.450
oh, my God, this poor band on the ride home.

00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:46.799
They have this opportunity to. come from the

00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:50.220
UK, share this tour of the States. They're introducing

00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:53.180
their music to people all over the country. What

00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:55.180
a shit thing to happen to them that it broke.

00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:58.440
And not even a couple of days later, I see the

00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:01.240
article that you guys went out and got them a

00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:03.240
new backdrop for the rest of the tour. That's

00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:08.440
unheard of. Usually the vibe is that it's kind

00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:10.559
of a dog eat dog world on the rock scene, but

00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:12.779
you guys are going against that grain and showing

00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:16.410
that it's a community. And I know you won't applaud

00:30:16.410 --> 00:30:18.769
the band for doing it, but I wanted to applaud

00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:20.769
the band for doing something like that because

00:30:20.769 --> 00:30:24.130
I'm a huge fan of Dinosaur Pile Up because of

00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:27.329
Shinedown introducing me to them. Right. And

00:30:27.329 --> 00:30:29.930
I can tell you why. One of the reasons we do

00:30:29.930 --> 00:30:32.329
things like that. And all I can do is give thanks

00:30:32.329 --> 00:30:35.329
to Three Doors Down. When we were a young band,

00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:37.490
first record had just come out, Three Doors Down

00:30:37.490 --> 00:30:39.349
took us out. And they ended up taking us out

00:30:39.349 --> 00:30:41.789
for, I think, nine months total. on that was

00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:43.950
the Beyond the Sun tour when they were at the

00:30:43.950 --> 00:30:45.869
top of their game and they were the biggest thing

00:30:45.869 --> 00:30:48.970
in rock at the time. And we were the dumbest

00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:51.069
band in rock at the time. We were young kids

00:30:51.069 --> 00:30:53.829
making all the mistakes, didn't know how to load

00:30:53.829 --> 00:30:55.450
in properly, didn't know how to do it. And instead

00:30:55.450 --> 00:30:58.630
of them, you know, berating us as some bands

00:30:58.630 --> 00:31:01.009
do or some bands crews do, it's typically not

00:31:01.009 --> 00:31:02.970
the band. It's the other band's crew that, you

00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:05.190
know, treats the opening band like shit. They

00:31:05.190 --> 00:31:06.569
went, hey, let me show you how you can do that

00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:09.700
better. Let me show you how. how to wrap a cable

00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:11.599
properly. All these things that you don't learn

00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:13.220
as a baby band that you have to learn later in

00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:15.380
life. Or, hey, I see you're running audio this

00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:17.519
way. Let me help your audio guy because you guys

00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:18.839
are taking way too much time getting on and off

00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:20.779
the stage. Let's help you out. And they helped

00:31:20.779 --> 00:31:24.140
us for nine months and taught us so much and

00:31:24.140 --> 00:31:27.339
didn't ask for a thing aside from, hey, hope

00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:30.359
you guys had a good time. And we took that to

00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.779
heart, all of us, and especially Brent and myself

00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:35.299
now that the lineup has changed. But I'll never

00:31:35.299 --> 00:31:37.619
forget the grace of that band. And I'll tell

00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:40.299
you this too. Out of all the bands we've toured

00:31:40.299 --> 00:31:42.940
with, I can barely count on Three Fingers bands

00:31:42.940 --> 00:31:45.140
I would never want to tour with again. The vast

00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:47.740
majority of the bands out there, including the

00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:50.519
huge ones like Kiss and Iron Maiden, even Van

00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.740
Halen, there's a reason they stuck around for

00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:55.640
a long time. And it's because of what they do.

00:31:55.819 --> 00:31:58.519
They might not like each other, but their band

00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.140
and their crew takes very good care of the opening

00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.119
bands. And that, I think, shows why they stand

00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.420
the test of time. And I want to stand the test

00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:07.720
of time as well. And it's about helping those

00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:10.579
around you. It is a community. We're all working

00:32:10.579 --> 00:32:12.500
just as hard, especially a band like Dinosaur

00:32:12.500 --> 00:32:14.599
Pileup. I know how expensive it is to cross the

00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:18.119
pond, especially as a baby band. What's it going

00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:19.759
to take out of us to throw a little bit of money

00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:21.599
together and go, hey, man, get your name out

00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.539
there? You know, that's simple. That's a non

00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.220
-starter, non -question, really. Well, when I

00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:30.680
bring my family to see a Shinedown show, I know

00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:32.940
they're going to get some diversity in the music.

00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:35.779
Sure. Just for the last few years, for example,

00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:39.220
Papa Roach. Jelly Roll, Spirit Box, The Pretty

00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:43.480
Reckless. And now this year, Bush, as well as

00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.839
Morgan Wade, who was also a guest on this show

00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:49.960
in the past, knowing her music, similar to Jelly

00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.819
Roll, is like a country slash rock. You had mentioned

00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:55.359
earlier in our conversation that you guys kind

00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:58.059
of have those roots in the Southern rock backgrounds.

00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:01.119
Is that why you kind of diversify the lineup

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:02.539
of the night, get a little bit of that Southern

00:33:02.539 --> 00:33:04.359
rock with a little bit of the heavier side of

00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:06.549
things? I think we just want to make it interesting

00:33:06.549 --> 00:33:08.869
for the audience and for ourselves. You know,

00:33:08.869 --> 00:33:11.809
we could do the same tour. And, you know, aside

00:33:11.809 --> 00:33:13.809
from always somehow touring with Papa Roach because

00:33:13.809 --> 00:33:15.630
we love those guys, you know, you want to mix

00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:17.390
it up. Yes, Papa Roach is on the chart. Breaking

00:33:17.390 --> 00:33:18.890
Benjamin's on the chart. You know, we could go

00:33:18.890 --> 00:33:21.670
with all those bands that are our peers and on

00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:23.170
the same charts as us and everything else. But

00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:25.509
why not stir it up? You know, we were so lucky

00:33:25.509 --> 00:33:26.950
enough to get Jelly Roll to open for us. And

00:33:26.950 --> 00:33:28.109
the next thing you know, he's the biggest thing

00:33:28.109 --> 00:33:30.349
in the world. I'm happy for him. That's great.

00:33:30.710 --> 00:33:32.970
I'm glad we could even be a part of your ascension

00:33:32.970 --> 00:33:35.880
to the top. And I hope the best for Morgan Way

00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.440
too. And I like to see something different. And

00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:41.000
I like to see a female crushing it in this industry,

00:33:41.140 --> 00:33:44.299
especially in the alt rock countryside, because

00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:47.099
it still is pretty hard for a female in this

00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:48.380
industry, especially if you're going to lean

00:33:48.380 --> 00:33:50.519
that rock side. Spiritbox is a great example

00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:54.720
of that. Why not support our fellow friends and

00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.059
females and people that are working this business?

00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:59.680
So yeah, we want it to be different. We don't

00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.259
want it to be the same thing. We don't want it

00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:03.660
to be the greatest playlist of active rock radio.

00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:07.079
We want it to be everywhere. Because if you're

00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.480
a music fan, you listen to everything. You look

00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.420
through what I've played in the past month. It's

00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:14.579
all over the place. It doesn't make sense. But

00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:16.659
that's how I was feeling that day. I was listening

00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:18.400
to P -Funk the other day just because I love

00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:20.960
P -Funk and I was in that mood. Tomorrow I could

00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.000
be listening to Maiden again and whatever. Who

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.559
cares? I like the way you think, man, because

00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:28.139
this show every week, it's a different topic

00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:30.179
or a different genre. And some people have actually

00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:32.460
reached out to me saying, man, you're all over

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.619
the place with music. And I, and I, in my brain,

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:37.820
my response is, is there any other way? Like,

00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:40.260
I feel like if you love music, it's, it's just,

00:34:40.340 --> 00:34:42.960
I want to consume all of it. I always tell people,

00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:44.480
and I tell my daughter this a lot because she's,

00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.119
she listens to music and she's got her own music

00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.619
that she listens to. And I go, I don't care what

00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:50.730
you listen to as long as it's. Makes you feel

00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:52.670
something and you feel good. Obviously, I'm going

00:34:52.670 --> 00:34:55.630
to monitor it because she's just 14. So, you

00:34:55.630 --> 00:34:57.050
know, I don't want to listen to certain things.

00:34:57.610 --> 00:35:00.409
But, you know, she's gotten she gets into the

00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:02.750
Spotify's iTunes, those things, and she finds

00:35:02.750 --> 00:35:04.989
her own lane. And she's more of a pop girl than

00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:06.690
I thought she'd be, because initially when we

00:35:06.690 --> 00:35:08.449
when she was coming up, we listened to Deftones

00:35:08.449 --> 00:35:10.170
together and Slipknot. And she enjoyed that.

00:35:10.409 --> 00:35:12.969
Now she's listening to Imagine Dragons and Benson

00:35:12.969 --> 00:35:15.070
Boone. And that's her thing. And I'm like, to

00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:17.989
make you feel good. Yeah. OK, great. Because

00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:20.900
that's what I did as a kid. Amen. As a father

00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:23.239
of two girls, I applaud that because my daughters

00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:26.739
both listen to as much Taylor Swift as they do

00:35:26.739 --> 00:35:29.739
The Interrupters. And because of me, I've taken

00:35:29.739 --> 00:35:33.519
them to see bands like Lamb of God and Metallica

00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:38.940
and John Fogerty and ZZ Top. I want them to go

00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:42.639
off into the world, if nothing else, having a

00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:44.800
musical education that comes from a little bit

00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.519
of everything and let them kind of form their

00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:49.369
own path. Absolutely. You have to. Because eventually

00:35:49.369 --> 00:35:50.889
they will. They're not going to listen to your

00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:53.190
music. But I listen to some of my parents' music.

00:35:53.449 --> 00:35:54.829
You know, certain things that my parents listen

00:35:54.829 --> 00:35:58.429
to, I love. Beach Boys, Allman Brothers, Bill

00:35:58.429 --> 00:36:01.030
Collins and Genesis. Absolutely. My parents introduced

00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:03.489
me to that. They wouldn't have introduced me

00:36:03.489 --> 00:36:06.329
to Nine Inch Nails. You know, it's just the way

00:36:06.329 --> 00:36:08.449
it goes. And nor would they listen to it. They'd

00:36:08.449 --> 00:36:12.989
say it's a bunch of shit. But that's the fun

00:36:12.989 --> 00:36:15.570
journey of music. And, you know, things hit everybody

00:36:15.570 --> 00:36:17.940
differently. You know, there's bands out there

00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:20.920
right now that people love. Then I'm like, why?

00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:24.280
I don't get it. But somebody does because they're

00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:27.519
huge. That's the love of music. Subjective. Absolutely

00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:29.880
subjective. Absolutely. Now, when I spoke to

00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:34.380
Eric, he explained that Shinedown 8 would, spoiler

00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:39.159
alert, not be a concept album. So after back

00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:41.559
-to -back concept albums, Inattention, Attention,

00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:45.630
and Planet Zero, for you as the drummer. Do you

00:36:45.630 --> 00:36:50.210
find it a disappointment or a relief not going

00:36:50.210 --> 00:36:52.889
the concept album route? Thank God it's not a

00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:57.090
concept record. You know, I had a great time

00:36:57.090 --> 00:36:59.610
with Attention and Planet Zero. Attention was

00:36:59.610 --> 00:37:02.710
purposely a concept record. Planet Zero just

00:37:02.710 --> 00:37:04.750
happened to become one because of the time period

00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:06.989
recording it during COVID. It just we were talking

00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:09.449
about what's going on in the world. And shit,

00:37:09.570 --> 00:37:11.610
we wrote another, you know, another concept record.

00:37:12.110 --> 00:37:14.030
We purposely said, can we just get a collection

00:37:14.030 --> 00:37:16.369
of songs together that are fun and put out a

00:37:16.369 --> 00:37:18.369
record, like an old school rock and roll record?

00:37:18.989 --> 00:37:22.570
And that's what this one will be. So can you

00:37:22.570 --> 00:37:24.909
talk about how Dance Kid Dance came together

00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:26.690
during the writing and recording sessions for

00:37:26.690 --> 00:37:29.869
that one? That one came together really with

00:37:29.869 --> 00:37:32.150
those guys. I didn't hear it until it was completely

00:37:32.150 --> 00:37:34.230
done. Vocals are there. And even then I had to

00:37:34.230 --> 00:37:37.429
go, I'm not sure what they're writing about initially.

00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:40.920
And for me, I think it was kind of the tongue

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:42.920
in cheek dance kid dance. But then if you really

00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:45.139
listen to the lyrics, you know, the pills will

00:37:45.139 --> 00:37:48.119
make you dance. It's a lot darker. It's very

00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:50.260
tongue in cheek and makes you want to rock out.

00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:52.179
But if you listen to it, you're like, oh, wait

00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:54.780
a minute. This is a little darker than what you

00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:56.900
think. And I think it stems from the experience

00:37:56.900 --> 00:38:00.059
that Brent had during his addiction days and

00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:02.960
really knowing way too much about those things

00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.059
and overcoming that and really kind of not making

00:38:07.059 --> 00:38:10.010
a. Statement like watch out, but more of a this

00:38:10.010 --> 00:38:11.590
is a statement. I know what you're going through.

00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:14.809
I've seen this. Maybe you want to watch out.

00:38:15.469 --> 00:38:19.230
Now, the band chose to drop two songs simultaneously.

00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:24.630
Dance Kid Dance went to rock radio and 365 went

00:38:24.630 --> 00:38:27.690
to pop radio. Can you talk about the thought

00:38:27.690 --> 00:38:31.210
process behind that move? Because releasing simultaneous

00:38:31.210 --> 00:38:33.610
singles to different formats is something you

00:38:33.610 --> 00:38:37.110
don't hear a lot of in modern music. No, and

00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:39.869
we've been fighting to do it for years, literally,

00:38:39.909 --> 00:38:42.130
probably since the Amaryllis record. We've been

00:38:42.130 --> 00:38:44.170
fighting like, why can't we service a song over

00:38:44.170 --> 00:38:47.130
here and then service a song over here? And typically

00:38:47.130 --> 00:38:50.050
you get shot down by management or the label.

00:38:50.230 --> 00:38:51.869
Typically the label at the time would just be

00:38:51.869 --> 00:38:54.550
like, well, we don't have the funding to push

00:38:54.550 --> 00:38:56.190
both of these up the charts and we don't want

00:38:56.190 --> 00:38:58.329
to, you know, take away from this one if we're

00:38:58.329 --> 00:39:00.329
pushing this and it becomes a political quagmire

00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:02.409
and nightmare. And you're like, yeah, but why

00:39:02.409 --> 00:39:04.550
not? And you can never get a really straight

00:39:04.550 --> 00:39:07.389
answer. And we were finally able to with, well,

00:39:07.510 --> 00:39:10.710
I say we. Nobody says no to Brent Smith. And

00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:17.389
he is a bulldog negotiator. And he's really grown

00:39:17.389 --> 00:39:20.070
a lot in the past eight, nine years as far as

00:39:20.070 --> 00:39:23.050
his shrewdness in business. And he basically

00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:24.670
doesn't take no for an answer. And you can see

00:39:24.670 --> 00:39:27.469
that in the climb of symptom being human. We

00:39:27.469 --> 00:39:30.070
were told no a million times. It'll never do

00:39:30.070 --> 00:39:31.869
anything at Odyssey. It'll never make it to top

00:39:31.869 --> 00:39:35.199
40. No, it's a great rock song, but they don't

00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:37.599
play that on Hot AC. They don't play rock. And

00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:40.039
he's like, well, why not? Let's just try it.

00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.500
And he was right. And it climbed the charts and

00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.340
it did really well. It was a marathon, not a

00:39:46.340 --> 00:39:49.619
sprint. It took a minute, but they got it. Riding

00:39:49.619 --> 00:39:52.019
on the coattails of that, he could look at them

00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:56.099
all and go, hey, I proved it last time. Let's

00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:58.809
shoot for them all right out the gate. And that's

00:39:58.809 --> 00:40:00.670
what we're doing. And it's exciting. It's exciting

00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:03.150
for us after, you know, a 24 year career so far

00:40:03.150 --> 00:40:06.429
of going, not only are we still relevant, but

00:40:06.429 --> 00:40:09.949
we're still growing. And, you know, the debut

00:40:09.949 --> 00:40:12.170
of these two songs, at least in the radio world,

00:40:12.210 --> 00:40:14.550
are our best debuts we've had to date. The most

00:40:14.550 --> 00:40:16.230
added, the most this, the most that, the most.

00:40:16.250 --> 00:40:19.170
And we're like, all right, we're doing something

00:40:19.170 --> 00:40:21.900
right. And that's important to us. So it was

00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:24.019
really a fight for many years. And finally, we

00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:27.739
got our way. We screamed, begged, pleaded, rolled

00:40:27.739 --> 00:40:29.760
over on our back through temper tantrums and

00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.639
finally got our way. And I think it's proof in

00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:34.920
the pudding, you know, and it's also for us.

00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:37.219
It's kind of like putting our flag in the ground

00:40:37.219 --> 00:40:39.420
and going, look, rock isn't dead. And we're not

00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:41.500
the only rock band out there that deserves to

00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:43.739
be on these other places. And hopefully they

00:40:43.739 --> 00:40:46.619
start paying attention. Well, I want to. follow

00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:48.880
up on that because when you think about the last

00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:51.519
run of singles which would be the poppier side

00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:54.599
of shine down in get up a symptom of being human

00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:59.380
and 365 yeah is there ever a pressure that the

00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:02.380
label or anybody is putting on the band to maybe

00:41:02.380 --> 00:41:06.539
steer it more towards the pop direction if they

00:41:06.539 --> 00:41:09.719
came to us and said that it would be the biggest

00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:12.039
middle finger we could ever give to them good

00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:13.750
because that's not who we are That's not who

00:41:13.750 --> 00:41:15.730
we are. We write the song. And if it happens

00:41:15.730 --> 00:41:17.349
to be a pop song, it's a pop song. It happens

00:41:17.349 --> 00:41:19.090
to be a rock song. It's rock. It's a punk song.

00:41:19.190 --> 00:41:22.269
It's a punk song. We write for ourselves first.

00:41:22.750 --> 00:41:24.929
And I will give credit to both management and

00:41:24.929 --> 00:41:26.389
the label that we've been with the whole time,

00:41:26.429 --> 00:41:29.530
Atlantic Records. They've never once tried. Never

00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:31.210
once have they said, hey, we want you to try

00:41:31.210 --> 00:41:33.489
to write a song like this or why can't you or

00:41:33.489 --> 00:41:36.230
any of those things. Even in the early days,

00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:39.639
they've been supportive. Maybe frustratingly

00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.019
so for themselves, because it is a business,

00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.480
it is a music business, but they've let us be

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.320
ourselves. But if you listen back to the albums

00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.460
that we've put out there, just about every single

00:41:49.460 --> 00:41:51.280
record, if not all the records, if I think about

00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.139
it, have a little bit of everything on them.

00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.860
They really do. That's just what we do. Well,

00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.400
when Eric and I talked, I did my part as a podcaster

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.380
in my years in radio, and I asked what dirt he

00:42:03.380 --> 00:42:07.559
had on Shinedown 8. And he alluded to a few songs

00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.659
like Searchlight, The Killing Fields, and The

00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:15.659
Pilot. Are 365 and Dance Kid Dance a strong representation

00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:19.820
of the sound and style that fans can expect from

00:42:19.820 --> 00:42:25.260
Shinedown 8? No, not at all. It's as eclectic

00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:27.099
as we always do. There's going to be things that

00:42:27.099 --> 00:42:28.940
you're going to be like, oh, I didn't expect

00:42:28.940 --> 00:42:30.239
that. And there's going to be some that are like,

00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:33.239
oh, that took my head off. You know, you mentioned

00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.030
Killing Fields. I'm like, haha. you know no is

00:42:36.030 --> 00:42:37.730
it a reflection of where we're at right now sure

00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:41.190
but every song is its own little animal and that's

00:42:41.190 --> 00:42:44.090
i think that's kind of the excitement of it yeah

00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:45.530
there's i think there's going to be some fun

00:42:45.530 --> 00:42:47.570
stuff that comes out that people are fans are

00:42:47.570 --> 00:42:49.929
going to really glom on to and there's there's

00:42:49.929 --> 00:42:51.929
certain ones i'm thinking of in the back of my

00:42:51.929 --> 00:42:54.349
head they're like it's different that one's different

00:42:54.349 --> 00:42:56.710
but i love it um and then there's some that oh

00:42:56.710 --> 00:42:58.989
yeah that's just a straight ahead hit you over

00:42:58.989 --> 00:43:00.949
the face shine down rock song you know and that

00:43:00.949 --> 00:43:03.920
which i think dance kid is in a lot of ways Get

00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.159
ready for a ride, just like we always do. Is

00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:08.639
the working title just Eight, or do you guys

00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:11.300
have something in mind? That's literally the

00:43:11.300 --> 00:43:15.440
working title is Eight. We have no idea what

00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.840
we're going to name it yet. Initially, there

00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:20.139
was talks of Dance Kid Dance being the title

00:43:20.139 --> 00:43:21.940
of it, because it kind of had that vibe in some

00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:24.860
respects. With Planet Zero, and even with Attention

00:43:24.860 --> 00:43:26.940
to Tension, they just quickly raised their hands.

00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:28.320
It was like, oh, yeah, that's got to be the album

00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.139
title. That just fits. um this one also not being

00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:32.860
a concept and just being a collection of songs

00:43:32.860 --> 00:43:35.920
that one thing hasn't raised his hand yet and

00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.579
each one of us because the shine down is a democracy

00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:41.519
we're all 25 percenters but we're all very opinionated

00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:45.639
25 percenters so sometimes we'll see what happens

00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:48.400
um and you know i'll give brent the 26 because

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.320
it's definitely you have to have a leader and

00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.900
he is the leader of shine down proudly and should

00:43:52.900 --> 00:43:55.519
be um he's got the vision more so than anybody

00:43:56.010 --> 00:43:58.250
So what you're saying is the enemies video is

00:43:58.250 --> 00:44:00.190
true to form. That's not, that wasn't acting.

00:44:00.349 --> 00:44:03.489
No, that's our personalities. Except there's

00:44:03.489 --> 00:44:05.130
no way in hell Zach could kick my ass. So that

00:44:05.130 --> 00:44:10.110
whole scene. Now, normally this is where I would

00:44:10.110 --> 00:44:12.389
start wrapping things up for the evening, but

00:44:12.389 --> 00:44:15.289
tonight folks, we're just getting warmed up.

00:44:15.550 --> 00:44:17.610
If you like what you're hearing on tonight's

00:44:17.610 --> 00:44:19.349
episode and you want to dive a little deeper,

00:44:19.449 --> 00:44:22.230
I've embedded a full shine down playlist featuring

00:44:22.230 --> 00:44:25.139
all the songs we've discussed this evening. as

00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:28.199
well as some video clips and photos from their

00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.539
debut performance this past summer at Madison

00:44:31.539 --> 00:44:34.420
Square Garden. You can find all of those on the

00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:39.619
episode page at myweeklymixtape .com. All right,

00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.219
let's keep this sound of Shinedown's celebration

00:44:42.219 --> 00:44:45.559
moving right along and roll into my interview

00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.139
featuring the one and only Eric Bass as he answers

00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:53.880
my first -timer guest question. What does the

00:44:53.880 --> 00:45:00.260
word mixtape mean to you? Freedom. Freedom, man.

00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:03.159
I think about just a different time, a different

00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:07.719
time in my life. I think about discovery. I think

00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.940
about sitting in front of a radio listening to

00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:13.920
Rick Dees or Casey Kasem or somebody like that

00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:15.920
trying to record songs as they went by on the

00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.960
radio. Just a whole other time, man, of sharing

00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.860
music with people. Like there was something magical

00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:27.380
about your friend handing you a tape and just

00:45:27.380 --> 00:45:29.960
saying, listen to this. And you would because

00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:31.880
you didn't have anything else going on. It was

00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:34.679
like there wasn't music flying at you from 10

00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.559
,000 different places. It was like that mixtape

00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.400
got your whole attention. I'm sitting here right

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:42.539
now because a buddy of mine handed me a long

00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:45.739
play tape with Back in Black on one side and

00:45:45.739 --> 00:45:48.579
Van Halen 5150 on the other side. And that was

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:50.900
like... one of my, I mean, I'd heard other rock

00:45:50.900 --> 00:45:52.559
music before that, but I'd had, you know, I'd

00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:54.460
had other mixtapes and stuff, but like that tape

00:45:54.460 --> 00:45:55.940
for some reason, man, I know it's not really

00:45:55.940 --> 00:45:58.500
a mixtape, but it's sort of a mixtape. Oh, mixtapes

00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:01.179
came in all shapes and sizes and colors. Long

00:46:01.179 --> 00:46:03.840
play mixtape, you know, but, but I mean, but

00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.500
I did, I digested those things because I didn't

00:46:06.500 --> 00:46:08.260
have any other choice. You know, you, you hung

00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:11.320
onto those tapes like they were a diamond ring

00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:14.119
and they were. You know, it's like, where's my

00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:15.940
tape with this on it? And that I'm, I can, I

00:46:15.940 --> 00:46:18.019
remember distinctly running into my sister's

00:46:18.019 --> 00:46:19.780
rooms and asking them about certain tapes. Like,

00:46:19.780 --> 00:46:22.519
where's my, where's my pink tape with this thing

00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:24.519
on it? You know, my Memorex with, it says this

00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:26.159
on it, you know, and they would have it or they

00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:28.159
wouldn't know where it was. And I'd be in a panic

00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:30.199
because you couldn't find your music. That is

00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.659
awesome. Well, tonight we are here to talk about

00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:36.219
your debut solo album. I had a name, but before

00:46:36.219 --> 00:46:38.420
we get into the album, I'd like to talk a little

00:46:38.420 --> 00:46:42.920
bit about. How we got here as you joined Shinedown

00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:46.440
in 2008 around the Sound of Madness cycle. And

00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.880
from there, you started taking on a role of writing

00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:51.860
and then producing with the band, starting on

00:46:51.860 --> 00:46:54.780
2010's Diamond Eyes and then continuing through

00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:57.559
several of my personal favorite Shinedown songs,

00:46:57.739 --> 00:47:00.780
such as Unity, I'll Follow You and Cut the Chord.

00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:04.280
Can you talk about the transition from joining

00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.039
Shinedown to becoming a songwriter within the

00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.139
group and how they. embraced your contributions

00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:14.239
from the jump. Actually, well, interesting. I'll

00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.800
give you a little backstory on that. I was a

00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:21.300
record producer studio rat around the time that

00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:24.119
I joined Shinedown. I'd come into that role of

00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.199
loving the recording studio. It was something

00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:28.239
that was always ingrained in me, but I'd been

00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:30.599
producing and engineering my own stuff, very

00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.739
self -taught, probably for five, six, seven years

00:47:33.739 --> 00:47:36.699
prior to joining Shinedown. through that process

00:47:36.699 --> 00:47:39.880
of writing and producing other artists, a lot

00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:43.019
of upstart artists, a lot of young bands. I didn't

00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:44.320
really like working with established bands. I

00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.780
still don't like working with established bands.

00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:48.500
I'd much rather work with a band who's hungry,

00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:51.380
who's trying to break out than a band who's already

00:47:51.380 --> 00:47:54.699
doing it. But through that process, I met a gentleman

00:47:54.699 --> 00:47:57.179
named Steve O. Robertson, and he was VP of A

00:47:57.179 --> 00:48:00.079
&R at Atlantic Records, and he had signed Shinedown.

00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:02.800
And he called me one day and he said, hey, have

00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:04.139
you ever heard of this band Shinedown? And I

00:48:04.139 --> 00:48:06.250
said, no. I have not heard of this band, Shinedown.

00:48:07.030 --> 00:48:08.650
Not because I hadn't heard of the band, because

00:48:08.650 --> 00:48:11.130
a lot of people had. I was buried in a recording

00:48:11.130 --> 00:48:14.849
studio. I actually didn't hear a lot of new music

00:48:14.849 --> 00:48:18.110
at the time, whether on purpose or just as a

00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:22.070
result of doing what I do. But he said, oh, well,

00:48:22.090 --> 00:48:23.849
they did that cover of Simple Man. I was like,

00:48:23.869 --> 00:48:25.429
oh, yeah, I've heard that. And then he mentioned

00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:27.030
Save Me. And I was like, oh, I've heard that

00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:28.969
song too. So I knew who the band was. And he

00:48:28.969 --> 00:48:31.449
said, well, hey, Brent, the singer, is writing

00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:34.329
for their next record. you know, would love to

00:48:34.329 --> 00:48:36.690
send him to write with you and record some demos

00:48:36.690 --> 00:48:39.369
and whatnot. So Brent came to Charleston at some

00:48:39.369 --> 00:48:42.489
point in 2007. That's when I first met him, early

00:48:42.489 --> 00:48:46.449
2007. And I rolled up to get him at his hotel.

00:48:46.809 --> 00:48:48.809
This dude comes rolling out of the hotel, pink

00:48:48.809 --> 00:48:52.309
hair, the whole nine. we got in my car we went

00:48:52.309 --> 00:48:54.010
to a show i forget what the show was went to

00:48:54.010 --> 00:48:56.050
the music farm here in charleston south carolina

00:48:56.050 --> 00:48:59.030
and we went to a show and we proceeded to get

00:48:59.030 --> 00:49:02.909
annihilated on the egermeister like i mean done

00:49:02.909 --> 00:49:04.570
i had to call my wife i had to call my wife to

00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:07.289
come get us i was like i can't like you have

00:49:07.289 --> 00:49:09.510
to come get us so that was my first introduction

00:49:09.510 --> 00:49:12.309
to brent we partied pretty hard that night and

00:49:12.309 --> 00:49:14.210
then we wrote uh we wrote the next day we worked

00:49:14.210 --> 00:49:16.800
the next day We wrote for two or three days,

00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:19.699
and then I had this idea. I'm like, hey, I really

00:49:19.699 --> 00:49:21.960
love producing bands. These songs are starting

00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:24.159
to come together. What do you think about bringing

00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:27.099
the band in? Let's record these songs properly.

00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:31.599
I didn't do finger drums, in -the -box drums

00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:34.860
and stuff back then. I worked with bands. What

00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:36.900
do you think about bringing the band in? He's

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:38.820
like, well, I can have the drummer here probably

00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:41.400
tomorrow or the next day, and the guitar player

00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:42.960
after that. We don't have a bass player right

00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.170
now. Our bass player has left the band. I was

00:49:45.170 --> 00:49:46.849
like, that'll work. So Barry came to town. I

00:49:46.849 --> 00:49:48.869
met Barry. He and I hit it off instantaneously.

00:49:49.090 --> 00:49:52.690
So Brent and Barry and I were very, not close,

00:49:52.849 --> 00:49:56.190
but we really gelled together very quickly. I

00:49:56.190 --> 00:49:58.769
think, and, you know, fast forward this many

00:49:58.769 --> 00:50:01.110
years, I know exactly why. We all kind of similar

00:50:01.110 --> 00:50:03.829
moral backgrounds and whatever else, you know.

00:50:04.250 --> 00:50:06.250
But Jason Todd, who was the guitar player in

00:50:06.250 --> 00:50:07.389
the band at the time, the original guitar player

00:50:07.389 --> 00:50:09.750
in the band, showed up two days after Barry.

00:50:10.110 --> 00:50:12.090
Barry'd recorded some drums, I think, already

00:50:12.090 --> 00:50:14.809
at that point. And as soon as Jason showed up,

00:50:14.849 --> 00:50:17.070
man, everything went out the window, went to

00:50:17.070 --> 00:50:19.730
shit. He and Brent had a pretty codependent,

00:50:19.730 --> 00:50:22.789
toxic drug habit relationship with each other.

00:50:23.010 --> 00:50:25.510
And so as soon as Jason showed up, the drug started

00:50:25.510 --> 00:50:29.090
and then just nothing happened after that. Oh,

00:50:29.170 --> 00:50:31.150
wow. Like the whole thing shut down. The whole

00:50:31.150 --> 00:50:32.869
thing went out the window, the whole writing

00:50:32.869 --> 00:50:36.429
session. And so we left, they left without, we

00:50:36.429 --> 00:50:38.309
didn't complete anything. We didn't really complete

00:50:38.309 --> 00:50:40.610
songs. We had the songs were like working, but

00:50:40.610 --> 00:50:42.730
like we never completed them. And interestingly,

00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:45.980
enough, Brent left right from me. He went and

00:50:45.980 --> 00:50:48.000
worked with Rick Beato, and Rick had produced

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.659
some songs on Leave a Whisper, the first Shinedown

00:50:50.659 --> 00:50:53.519
record. Interestingly enough, before Brent came

00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.300
to work with me, actually, I called Rick. Rick

00:50:55.300 --> 00:50:56.800
and I were managed by the same person, and we

00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:59.460
were friends. I wouldn't say colleagues or anything,

00:50:59.619 --> 00:51:02.400
but we were definitely friends. I called Rick

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:05.840
and was like, this is pre -YouTube Rick Beato.

00:51:07.499 --> 00:51:09.400
Great producer, man. Great producer. Obviously

00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:11.579
a super talented guy. I mean, everybody sees

00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:13.380
him. I was going to say, I love his videos, man.

00:51:13.699 --> 00:51:15.500
Genius individual. Genius gets thrown around

00:51:15.500 --> 00:51:18.340
a lot in our business, but he absolutely is.

00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:19.800
I don't know if he would accept that or not,

00:51:19.900 --> 00:51:22.500
but he's just highly intelligent on many different

00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.500
levels, but extremely intelligent musically.

00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:26.239
Anyway, I called him. I was like, hey man, tell

00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:27.639
me about this Brent Smith character. And he kind

00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:29.360
of told me, he's like, he's super intense, you

00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.000
know, and he kind of gave me some kind of a heads

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.300
up about Brent. Just nothing bad, just that he

00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:36.730
was intense and kind of what his work. how he

00:51:36.730 --> 00:51:40.030
worked best but anyway uh yeah so that whole

00:51:40.030 --> 00:51:42.409
thing fell apart and they left but but steve

00:51:42.409 --> 00:51:45.269
-o robertson hit me up after that he was like

00:51:45.269 --> 00:51:46.590
well man we didn't get anything and i kind of

00:51:46.590 --> 00:51:48.469
told him why he goes well hey you know they're

00:51:48.469 --> 00:51:50.130
looking for a bass player you know i know you

00:51:50.130 --> 00:51:52.230
play i was like well i play studio bass i really

00:51:52.230 --> 00:51:53.670
was traditionally a guitar player but i play

00:51:53.670 --> 00:51:55.590
bass a lot in the studio he's like he's like

00:51:55.590 --> 00:51:57.050
you know what do you think about maybe coming

00:51:57.050 --> 00:51:59.289
and they like you a lot you know maybe joining

00:51:59.289 --> 00:52:02.389
the band and i'm like man after that after seeing

00:52:02.389 --> 00:52:04.500
that dysfunction i was like i you know built

00:52:04.500 --> 00:52:06.059
this recording studio. My wife and I have a lot

00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:07.420
invested in this. I've got this whole career.

00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:09.579
I can't see leaving it for that. And it was,

00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:10.820
you know, it sucked. I mean, it was kind of like

00:52:10.820 --> 00:52:12.980
this, like I had to make an adult decision about

00:52:12.980 --> 00:52:14.800
it at that point, you know? Hate it when that

00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:19.780
happens. Well, fast forward to early 2008. Or

00:52:19.780 --> 00:52:22.780
was it late? No, it was late 2007. I get another

00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:25.000
call from Steve and he's like, hey man, look,

00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:27.460
that guitar player that was there, Jason, and

00:52:27.460 --> 00:52:29.619
Jason's a fine person. This is not me casting

00:52:29.619 --> 00:52:32.210
any sort of... i i have no opinions one way or

00:52:32.210 --> 00:52:33.809
the other but jason's not in the band anymore

00:52:33.809 --> 00:52:36.969
and brent's really trying to clean up we've got

00:52:36.969 --> 00:52:39.789
a new guitar player named zach and they would

00:52:39.789 --> 00:52:42.110
love it if you would come you know audition for

00:52:42.110 --> 00:52:45.730
the for the band and i i don't know man i don't

00:52:45.730 --> 00:52:47.030
know what it was in that moment is the fact that

00:52:47.030 --> 00:52:48.989
i was being asked twice by someone i respect

00:52:48.989 --> 00:52:51.250
a lot i respect steve robertson an awful lot

00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:55.210
and i still do even after all these years uh

00:52:55.210 --> 00:52:58.269
he's no longer with atlantic but he's just such

00:52:58.269 --> 00:53:01.079
just one of my close favorite people in the business

00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:03.159
but maybe it's the fact he's asking me twice

00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:05.400
and i said okay you know send me the song so

00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:07.519
he said we'll learn this song in this song and

00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.880
they sent me i think second chance and sound

00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:12.219
of madness and devour i think were the three

00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:15.500
new songs they sent then i went down to orlando

00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:19.280
and played my audition and then that night you

00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:21.139
know got offered the job and again man we were

00:53:21.139 --> 00:53:23.019
all just getting along so well you know it's

00:53:23.019 --> 00:53:24.719
like it's one thing to play music with people

00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:25.880
it's another thing to just feel like you just

00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:28.539
i know these people already And interestingly

00:53:28.539 --> 00:53:31.260
enough, there's a picture of that very afternoon.

00:53:31.400 --> 00:53:33.739
Somebody, the guy next door in the warehouse

00:53:33.739 --> 00:53:36.940
space next door wanted a picture with the band

00:53:36.940 --> 00:53:38.780
for some reason. And I hadn't even been offered

00:53:38.780 --> 00:53:41.860
the position or whatever, you know, at the time.

00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:43.519
And they're like, you want a picture with the

00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.079
band? I kind of stood over the side and Brent's

00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:47.239
like, come on in, man. You know, so like I'm

00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:48.539
already taking pictures with the band at that

00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.400
point. But there's a picture from that day, which

00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:53.400
is of the four of us, which is interesting. So

00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.679
again, I guess that's just my way of saying our

00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.900
relationship started in the studio. Our relationship

00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:00.960
started in producing and writing. Now, as far

00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:02.500
as getting the trust of everybody, I mean, look,

00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:06.460
I got dropped into one of the most insane records

00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:09.659
in rock history, first of all, that I would love

00:54:09.659 --> 00:54:11.760
to take credit for, but I had nothing to do with.

00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.900
Chris Chaney played bass on the record. Not a

00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:19.230
slouch. No, not at all. So Diamond Eyes happened

00:54:19.230 --> 00:54:22.110
because Sylvester Stallone called the band and

00:54:22.110 --> 00:54:24.829
he said, hey, I'm looking for a band to write

00:54:24.829 --> 00:54:27.949
a song for this movie that I'm making called

00:54:27.949 --> 00:54:31.289
The Expendables. And here's a little bit about

00:54:31.289 --> 00:54:32.550
it. Here's what I want it to be. And he sent

00:54:32.550 --> 00:54:33.989
over this poem, and I forget the name of the

00:54:33.989 --> 00:54:36.250
poem, but the beats at the end of every verse

00:54:36.250 --> 00:54:38.269
would say, boom, lay, boom, lay, boom. And he's

00:54:38.269 --> 00:54:39.889
like, the only thing I want in the song is boom,

00:54:39.909 --> 00:54:41.650
lay, boom, lay, boom. That's how the boom, lay,

00:54:41.670 --> 00:54:43.889
boom, lay, boom thing happened in Diamond Eyes.

00:54:43.929 --> 00:54:46.230
It wasn't us. It was Sylvester Stallone. His

00:54:46.230 --> 00:54:49.070
idea. He wanted that from that poem. That poem

00:54:49.070 --> 00:54:52.809
ties into the movie. So I just took it. I was

00:54:52.809 --> 00:54:55.130
like, challenge accepted. I didn't even ask any

00:54:55.130 --> 00:54:56.389
questions. I was like, we're going to write this

00:54:56.389 --> 00:54:58.630
song. This is going to happen. And so we're on

00:54:58.630 --> 00:55:02.269
tour. And I recorded this music, demo music on

00:55:02.269 --> 00:55:07.090
tour. And then Brent took the demo music to his

00:55:07.090 --> 00:55:08.989
hotel room, wrote a couple things. He and I got

00:55:08.989 --> 00:55:11.179
up together. We wrote. Well, Zach came up with

00:55:11.179 --> 00:55:13.039
a guitar lick, by the way. Let me specify that.

00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:14.619
Zach came up with a guitar lick on stage at a

00:55:14.619 --> 00:55:20.840
soundcheck. Zach came up with that. I took all

00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:23.039
that stuff, put it into a demo form. Brent took

00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:24.900
the music, wrote the lyrics. We had them figured

00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:27.300
out. I took the band back to Charleston on a

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:30.860
break. We recorded all the music at my studio.

00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:33.840
And then Brent couldn't make it for that session.

00:55:34.809 --> 00:55:36.650
we were back out on tour we actually went to

00:55:36.650 --> 00:55:39.289
uh johnny k the producer johnny k who's produced

00:55:39.289 --> 00:55:42.250
you know disturbed and seven dust and i think

00:55:42.250 --> 00:55:44.909
chevelle and a bunch of other people uh we were

00:55:44.909 --> 00:55:46.829
in chicago we went to his studio and he he produced

00:55:46.829 --> 00:55:48.690
the vocal he he recorded the vocals for that

00:55:48.690 --> 00:55:50.809
so uh we got the studio with him and did the

00:55:50.809 --> 00:55:54.289
vocals and sent it to uh chris lord algae to

00:55:54.289 --> 00:55:58.489
mix and diamond eyes was born and i think from

00:55:58.489 --> 00:56:01.599
there man it was just like Look, man, this is

00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:04.179
what I was born to do. I was born to create in

00:56:04.179 --> 00:56:07.440
a studio. If I was born to do one thing, for

00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:09.900
better or worse, for painful or not painful,

00:56:10.179 --> 00:56:13.119
this is what I was made to do. And then it was

00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.039
just, you talk about the trust thing. There's

00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.519
a lot of trust in a writing relationship, in

00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:22.099
a songwriting relationship. And it takes a while

00:56:22.099 --> 00:56:23.980
to develop. You have to get in a room with somebody

00:56:23.980 --> 00:56:26.699
and really see what makes each other tick and

00:56:26.699 --> 00:56:29.420
see how the process works. for the two of you

00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:31.320
together or the three of you together or the

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:34.119
four of you together in some insane cases. That's

00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:35.739
insanity to me, four people in a room writing

00:56:35.739 --> 00:56:38.960
a song, but three at the most usually, but two

00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:41.920
preferably. But Brent and I had to get in a room

00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:43.699
and sort of figure that stuff out. And so when

00:56:43.699 --> 00:56:46.219
it came time to start writing for Amaryllis,

00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:50.480
I had a lot to learn about songwriting. I was

00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:53.920
used to being a big fish, small pond kind of

00:56:53.920 --> 00:56:56.000
thing, I guess. I was used to making decisions

00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:59.659
that I thought were great. songwriting decisions,

00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:02.860
production decisions. And by the way, by this

00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:05.780
time, I mean, the band, we toured so much on

00:57:05.780 --> 00:57:08.659
Sound of Madness record. I believe it's not actually

00:57:08.659 --> 00:57:10.980
in the Guinness Book of World Records, but it

00:57:10.980 --> 00:57:14.440
is a record for the most shows played on one

00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:17.460
record cycle, I believe. It's like 400 and something

00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:19.760
shows we played on that record cycle, I believe.

00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:24.440
High 300s, low 400s, but it's a lot. And so by

00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:26.119
this time we were all super close. I mean, there

00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:28.230
was no, you know. There's no way we didn't know

00:57:28.230 --> 00:57:30.730
each other by this point. But knowing each other

00:57:30.730 --> 00:57:32.269
in that way, even though we'd done Diamond Eyes,

00:57:32.409 --> 00:57:34.769
it was like, okay, was that a fluke? This number

00:57:34.769 --> 00:57:36.929
one song that had this slow burn at radio, and

00:57:36.929 --> 00:57:41.389
it went on the extended edition, re -released

00:57:41.389 --> 00:57:43.590
edition of the Sound of Madness record is what

00:57:43.590 --> 00:57:47.110
that's on. So I got in a room with Brent and

00:57:47.110 --> 00:57:49.170
Dave Bassett first, and we wrote some together,

00:57:49.489 --> 00:57:52.969
and that went well. And then Brent and I wrote

00:57:52.969 --> 00:57:55.920
two or three songs with just the two of us. one

00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:57.739
of those songs was i'll follow you although dave

00:57:57.739 --> 00:58:00.800
ended up adding some some we added a bridge to

00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:02.519
that song when we got in the studio the whole

00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:04.900
lyrical bridge wasn't in the original demo so

00:58:04.900 --> 00:58:07.000
dave got dave's a writer on that song that dave

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.579
dave wrote the bridge but the song was pretty

00:58:10.579 --> 00:58:12.199
much in its other than that was in its finished

00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:14.539
form but i had a lot to learn because it was

00:58:14.539 --> 00:58:16.280
like i'm getting all this pushback on things

00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:17.619
i'm getting pushed back on lyrics i'm getting

00:58:17.619 --> 00:58:20.099
pushed back on music and all this stuff and i'm

00:58:20.099 --> 00:58:22.480
just not used to that and it became very difficult

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:27.289
for me i'm i'm uh um I don't talk too often about

00:58:27.289 --> 00:58:31.750
my neurodivergence, but I've got ADHD, executive

00:58:31.750 --> 00:58:35.030
dysfunction, and autism, and just different aspects

00:58:35.030 --> 00:58:37.769
of those things. But I'm extremely rejection

00:58:37.769 --> 00:58:41.510
sensitive, right? And so it feels painful to

00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:43.409
me. Rejection is painful. It's like it's this

00:58:43.409 --> 00:58:45.409
physical thing. It's been that way my whole life.

00:58:45.429 --> 00:58:48.010
I just never knew what to call it until I was,

00:58:48.010 --> 00:58:50.570
you know, sort of diagnosed more recently with

00:58:50.570 --> 00:58:53.449
this stuff. man, that was just really super painful

00:58:53.449 --> 00:58:56.630
for me. So that began the beginnings of me really

00:58:56.630 --> 00:58:59.469
getting thick skin. I realized very quickly with

00:58:59.469 --> 00:59:02.570
songwriting, because I wasn't... Here's another

00:59:02.570 --> 00:59:03.989
thing I was very used to. I was very used to

00:59:03.989 --> 00:59:06.170
every single thing that I worked on, every single

00:59:06.170 --> 00:59:08.130
thing that I wrote was precious and mattered

00:59:08.130 --> 00:59:10.090
and all of this stuff. And then you get into

00:59:10.090 --> 00:59:12.230
a writing session and you realize maybe this

00:59:12.230 --> 00:59:14.610
song isn't happening and people want to abandon

00:59:14.610 --> 00:59:16.250
it, that it's not like you're throwing your child

00:59:16.250 --> 00:59:18.050
away. It's like, no, we just need to move on.

00:59:18.130 --> 00:59:21.389
But it had this visceral effect on me. But that

00:59:21.389 --> 00:59:24.349
record writing process was a good process for

00:59:24.349 --> 00:59:26.949
Brent and my relationship as well as creators

00:59:26.949 --> 00:59:30.210
and learning how to create together. And then

00:59:30.210 --> 00:59:32.429
the band got really healthy. You know, Brent

00:59:32.429 --> 00:59:37.070
was able to get clean and we all got super healthy.

00:59:37.369 --> 00:59:39.590
Seemed healthy anyway on that touring cycle for

00:59:39.590 --> 00:59:42.829
Amaryllis. And then when we came off of that

00:59:42.829 --> 00:59:46.510
tour, Brent just hit a wall and crashed back

00:59:46.510 --> 00:59:49.230
into addiction. And my depression kicked in and

00:59:49.230 --> 00:59:52.480
I got a pill habit. out of that i started taking

00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.699
a lot of hydrocodone and just to feel better

00:59:54.699 --> 00:59:58.420
you know it made me feel invincible and and so

00:59:58.420 --> 01:00:01.139
we fell into this really bad place all of us

01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:04.119
in that writing cycle for threat to survival

01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:06.699
and i didn't do a lot of writing on that record

01:00:06.699 --> 01:00:08.719
i wrote two songs on that record one of them

01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:11.940
was cut the cord which i produced as well and

01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:14.760
uh the other one was black cadillac yep the other

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:17.000
song but then starting into that touring cycle

01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:21.130
we all had a very very big wake -up call and

01:00:21.130 --> 01:00:24.389
actually got healthy. Right in the beginning

01:00:24.389 --> 01:00:29.369
of that touring cycle. The spirit of this band

01:00:29.369 --> 01:00:33.630
really emerged during that time, I would say.

01:00:33.710 --> 01:00:35.590
The current spirit of this band anyway. What

01:00:35.590 --> 01:00:38.869
I would pin is our identity. That really enabled

01:00:38.869 --> 01:00:41.630
me to be way more creative in the band and to

01:00:41.630 --> 01:00:45.309
ultimately co -write most of Attention, Attention.

01:00:45.530 --> 01:00:47.530
There's some songs that I didn't write on that

01:00:47.530 --> 01:00:50.360
album. I love every song on that album, and I

01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:53.280
produced and mixed that album as well, and then

01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.659
into Planet Zero, the last record, and now into

01:00:56.659 --> 01:00:58.219
this new Shinedown record that we're currently

01:00:58.219 --> 01:01:01.119
working on, the same thing. Interestingly enough,

01:01:01.219 --> 01:01:03.019
this new Shinedown record, the eighth Shinedown

01:01:03.019 --> 01:01:04.739
record, I'm actually more hands -off than I've

01:01:04.739 --> 01:01:08.039
been since over the last two, namely because

01:01:08.039 --> 01:01:11.099
of this record of my own. So, you know, Zach

01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:13.179
and Brent have been writing an awful lot on this

01:01:13.179 --> 01:01:15.840
record. I've written... quite a few songs i mean

01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:17.840
it's not like a not not not existent or something

01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:20.199
but by way of comparison if i think about the

01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:22.519
the 24 songs that were written for planet zero

01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:24.699
that i wrote every single uh there's a writer

01:01:24.699 --> 01:01:26.719
on every single one of those songs i think on

01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:29.000
you know so far on this record i'm i'm on like

01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:32.860
nine ten songs something like that you know so

01:01:32.860 --> 01:01:35.300
far uh we have some more writing to do but i've

01:01:35.300 --> 01:01:38.340
just been it's been it actually pretty painful

01:01:38.340 --> 01:01:41.019
to kind of not be able to do two things at once

01:01:41.019 --> 01:01:42.699
i wish i wish my brain worked like that but i

01:01:42.699 --> 01:01:44.880
have to be creatively i have to be doing one

01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.000
thing at a time for that thing to be great whatever

01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:48.500
that is if i'm doing a shiny record that's all

01:01:48.500 --> 01:01:50.699
i'm doing if i'm doing an eric bass record and

01:01:50.699 --> 01:01:53.199
videos that's all i'm doing because something's

01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:55.280
going to suffer and so i've had to be in this

01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:57.980
like video making promo land of rolling this

01:01:57.980 --> 01:02:01.360
record out of i had a name record but again no

01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:03.599
back seat's been taken the the interesting thing

01:02:03.599 --> 01:02:05.280
is man is those relationships that have been

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.940
forged in our band in in chaos and in love and

01:02:09.940 --> 01:02:12.840
in everything else like that stuff is never going

01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:15.019
to go away shine down would make the most boring

01:02:15.019 --> 01:02:17.320
reality show of all time we all love each other

01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:20.099
we all get along uh we all support each other

01:02:20.099 --> 01:02:23.420
i mean the i had a name record is out because

01:02:23.420 --> 01:02:26.639
my band encouraged me to put it out because i

01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:28.340
i've been sitting on it for a while and i just

01:02:28.340 --> 01:02:30.599
wasn't sure i was going to release it and and

01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:33.239
just out of, out of, uh, insecurities and everything

01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.039
else, you know? And, and, um, and I made it for

01:02:36.039 --> 01:02:38.579
myself. It reckoned it purely for myself and

01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:40.139
I didn't, you know, I just love the fact that

01:02:40.139 --> 01:02:42.300
it existed. So, but they were like, man, you

01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:44.639
gotta, you have to put this thing out. So yeah,

01:02:44.699 --> 01:02:46.340
I know maybe that's more than what you were asking

01:02:46.340 --> 01:02:48.199
about in the initial question. I kind of went

01:02:48.199 --> 01:02:51.380
through the timeline there, but yeah, I, I, my,

01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:54.440
my relationship with Shinedown was founded in

01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:57.699
the studio. Not really on stage. And it continues

01:02:57.699 --> 01:02:59.980
to be where I'm more comfortable. My role in

01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:01.760
the studio with this band, I'm way more comfortable

01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:04.719
with than my role on stage, for sure. And that's

01:03:04.719 --> 01:03:07.139
something that you hear when you listen to the

01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:09.440
albums, Attention, Attention and Planet Zero,

01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:12.659
as you took on the full producer role on both

01:03:12.659 --> 01:03:16.659
of those albums. However, I Have a Name was actually

01:03:16.659 --> 01:03:19.239
written during the Attention, Attention tour

01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:22.989
as a graphic novel. Care to explain a little

01:03:22.989 --> 01:03:26.010
bit about how the graphic novel became a solo

01:03:26.010 --> 01:03:28.789
album? Yeah, because I'm sadistic, that's how.

01:03:29.789 --> 01:03:32.349
Because I don't know how to just do one hard

01:03:32.349 --> 01:03:34.869
thing. I got to do 12 hard things. Yeah, I was

01:03:34.869 --> 01:03:37.250
the first European tour for Attention, Attention,

01:03:37.570 --> 01:03:41.349
hotel room in Milan, Italy. I just got done with

01:03:41.349 --> 01:03:45.269
a workout. I had listened to Biohazard's State

01:03:45.269 --> 01:03:48.690
of the World Address. Nice. A record that I...

01:03:48.940 --> 01:03:50.960
love from back in the day that i hadn't listened

01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.559
to a hell yeah love that record man such i just

01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:55.980
loved love love love that record talk about a

01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:58.159
record that like puts me in a place the state

01:03:58.159 --> 01:03:59.800
of the world address puts me instantly in like

01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:03.400
1996 playing in hardcore bands and touring in

01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:05.460
vans like that's where my that's where my brain

01:04:05.460 --> 01:04:09.280
goes i still have the orange cd jewel case embedded

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:11.699
in my brain yeah dude that was the thing man

01:04:11.699 --> 01:04:14.099
like that record you know looked and sounded

01:04:14.099 --> 01:04:16.519
chaotic i love it still love it but i hadn't

01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:18.289
listened to it in a while when I did that workout.

01:04:18.429 --> 01:04:19.889
And I don't know if that has anything to do with

01:04:19.889 --> 01:04:21.489
this story, but I always preface it with that

01:04:21.489 --> 01:04:23.829
because maybe there's some, you know, maybe there

01:04:23.829 --> 01:04:26.489
was something to that. But I just got done listening

01:04:26.489 --> 01:04:29.190
to that, did a workout in the room, and I had

01:04:29.190 --> 01:04:31.449
a voice. And I think a lot of people experience

01:04:31.449 --> 01:04:33.269
this, a voice in your head that maybe isn't yours

01:04:33.269 --> 01:04:36.710
that guides you occasionally. And that voice

01:04:36.710 --> 01:04:38.570
said, you might want to write this down. And

01:04:38.570 --> 01:04:40.309
so I picked up my journal that I write all my

01:04:40.309 --> 01:04:42.949
lyrics in and stories in and started writing

01:04:42.949 --> 01:04:45.429
this story idea down for a comic book. And I've

01:04:45.429 --> 01:04:48.409
never been a comic book guy. That's the other

01:04:48.409 --> 01:04:50.329
interesting thing about it. In fact, the next

01:04:50.329 --> 01:04:53.389
day I called Eric Rickert, who is my, one of

01:04:53.389 --> 01:04:54.909
my best friends in the world. And it's always

01:04:54.909 --> 01:04:57.309
been my help here at the studio, my assistant

01:04:57.309 --> 01:04:59.989
engineer here at the studio or main engineer,

01:05:00.050 --> 01:05:02.929
depending on the day. But he's a comic book fanatic,

01:05:02.929 --> 01:05:05.190
like still gets, you know, every month gets deliveries

01:05:05.190 --> 01:05:07.210
to the house and reads, reads them, knows all

01:05:07.210 --> 01:05:09.289
the storylines and everything. And I was like,

01:05:09.329 --> 01:05:11.570
I just started grilling him about comics because

01:05:11.570 --> 01:05:13.010
I like graphic novels. I was like, what do I

01:05:13.010 --> 01:05:14.949
need to read graphic novel wise? Because like

01:05:14.949 --> 01:05:17.579
I, for some reason. I was told to write this

01:05:17.579 --> 01:05:19.380
idea down that I'm supposed to make this graphic

01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:21.000
novel. I know that sounds woo -woo to people

01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:22.739
who don't understand it, but anybody who's ever

01:05:22.739 --> 01:05:26.139
had, you know, something from beyond tell them

01:05:26.139 --> 01:05:28.300
something, you know, that's just what it was.

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:30.199
It was like, okay, I'm supposed to do this thing.

01:05:30.860 --> 01:05:33.000
And so I called him like, you know, what should

01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:34.900
I read? What should I get into? And he gave me

01:05:34.900 --> 01:05:36.280
some, cause I was obsessed with, I'm obsessed

01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:38.239
with story. I wanted the story to be good. I

01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:39.739
wanted to see what, what do you think are some

01:05:39.739 --> 01:05:41.559
of the best graphic novel stories out there?

01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:43.360
And he mentioned Saga. Saga was one of them.

01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:45.690
And I read Saga and it's excellent. But I just

01:05:45.690 --> 01:05:47.510
like to know what world am I getting ready to

01:05:47.510 --> 01:05:50.409
play in? What is this about? Not the story. What

01:05:50.409 --> 01:05:52.190
is this whole thing about? What's going on right

01:05:52.190 --> 01:05:55.969
now? Why a graphic novel? Why is that what it's

01:05:55.969 --> 01:05:58.630
supposed to be? But instantaneously, man, I saw

01:05:58.630 --> 01:06:01.510
visuals. Instantly. I just saw characters and

01:06:01.510 --> 01:06:04.510
visuals and scenes. And interestingly enough,

01:06:04.610 --> 01:06:06.329
what I wrote down ended up being sort of the

01:06:06.329 --> 01:06:08.659
prequel story to the story I'm telling. in this

01:06:08.659 --> 01:06:10.920
i will be telling in the graphic novel and i

01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:12.940
tell them on the record because as i started

01:06:12.940 --> 01:06:14.599
developing characters i started seeing these

01:06:14.599 --> 01:06:17.099
side characters that were like they're more interesting

01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:19.719
to me and i picked those characters up that's

01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:21.340
why it took a long time because i started working

01:06:21.340 --> 01:06:23.699
on this kind of first part of the story and then

01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:26.659
these other two characters in particular just

01:06:26.659 --> 01:06:28.780
raised their hand and and were like we're super

01:06:28.780 --> 01:06:31.780
interesting and so then i kind of started from

01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:34.639
scratch with them and started writing this graphic

01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:37.780
novel and and it's well on its way i mean act

01:06:37.780 --> 01:06:40.519
one is completely written act two and three are

01:06:40.519 --> 01:06:44.179
there just not finished and then somewhere along

01:06:44.179 --> 01:06:46.340
the way with that i had these pieces of music

01:06:46.340 --> 01:06:48.699
that i was toying around with just on tour on

01:06:48.699 --> 01:06:50.059
that attention attention cycle and i remember

01:06:50.059 --> 01:06:52.500
going to brent and i said hey man are you in

01:06:52.500 --> 01:06:54.920
any headspace to start working on a new shinedown

01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:57.239
record and he said absolutely not because he

01:06:57.239 --> 01:06:58.960
does not like to write on tour but i had to ask

01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:00.480
him i said i said i said well i've got these

01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:02.440
pieces of music that they're pretty different

01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:04.039
they would either make the most different shinedown

01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:06.639
record of all time or I need to use them for

01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:08.800
this thing. I've got an idea for them. And he's

01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:11.679
like, go do your thing. He's like, I won't be

01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:15.119
ready to write for another year. So that's kind

01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:16.559
of where the genesis of the record started. And

01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:18.960
I started writing these lyrics about these characters

01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:20.920
and these stories about these characters in song

01:07:20.920 --> 01:07:23.500
form. And what the record is, what I had a name

01:07:23.500 --> 01:07:26.679
is, it's chronological in nature. I mean, it's

01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:28.139
going from the beginning of the story to the

01:07:28.139 --> 01:07:30.960
end of the story. But it's just scenes from.

01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:33.780
It's not really telling. you exactly what's happening

01:07:33.780 --> 01:07:35.780
is i was pulling out the same thing i do when

01:07:35.780 --> 01:07:38.420
i'm writing other songs like you know if i have

01:07:38.420 --> 01:07:39.920
something in my head a scene that i feel like

01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:41.320
is interesting something i saw or experienced

01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:43.800
that i want to write about that's what i do and

01:07:43.800 --> 01:07:45.400
so i just did the same thing with these fictitious

01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:50.519
stories and characters and i found it very very

01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:54.559
easy to write lyrically very easy to write All

01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:56.199
of these songs were very easy to write. I mean,

01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:57.559
I'm not saying there weren't moments of like

01:07:57.559 --> 01:07:59.300
you have with every song or, you know, where

01:07:59.300 --> 01:08:01.119
you have to sit and kind of figure out, like,

01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:03.139
I need an I rhyme and I can't figure out what

01:08:03.139 --> 01:08:05.519
it is. And maybe the I rhyme isn't there. So

01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:06.960
you have to change the word before it to an E

01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:09.340
rhyme so you can say the E word here, you know,

01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:11.139
that kind of stuff. I'm not talking about the,

01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:14.599
you know, that sort of logistical part of songwriting.

01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:16.260
I'm talking about just the sub, just everything

01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:19.819
pouring out was happening very naturally. at

01:08:19.819 --> 01:08:21.960
some point i was listening back to one of the

01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:24.079
songs uh a song called good night good night

01:08:24.079 --> 01:08:26.640
it's the fifth track on the record and it's very

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:28.420
personal to me it's a very pro probably one of

01:08:28.420 --> 01:08:32.340
the more personal songs on the record and i realized

01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:34.319
you ever have one of those moments where you

01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:37.100
you have a shocking thought or shocking revelation

01:08:37.100 --> 01:08:39.380
about something and you get ice through your

01:08:39.380 --> 01:08:42.680
veins that shocking thing and i had that happen

01:08:42.680 --> 01:08:45.899
i was like oh my god you know i've written the

01:08:45.899 --> 01:08:49.689
most autobiographical record of my career or

01:08:49.689 --> 01:08:51.750
I am writing the most autobiographical record

01:08:51.750 --> 01:08:53.770
of my career through these characters. You're

01:08:53.770 --> 01:08:55.390
not just talking about these characters, you're

01:08:55.390 --> 01:08:57.569
talking about yourself. Every single one of these

01:08:57.569 --> 01:09:00.649
songs is from you, from your childhood, from

01:09:00.649 --> 01:09:03.050
your current life, from your depression, from

01:09:03.050 --> 01:09:05.949
whatever. What that really did for me is that

01:09:05.949 --> 01:09:09.430
enriched the record because it made... Now I

01:09:09.430 --> 01:09:12.289
just didn't have characters anymore. I had characters

01:09:12.289 --> 01:09:15.359
that were representative of... pieces of me and

01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:17.859
pieces of and and i realized that in a lot of

01:09:17.859 --> 01:09:20.079
cases when writers are writing they are they're

01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:22.260
doing that everything that you make is a piece

01:09:22.260 --> 01:09:25.659
of you but this was a lot more literal like where

01:09:25.659 --> 01:09:28.199
um i could look at a character like davarin who

01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:30.939
is the dictator who has taken over this world

01:09:30.939 --> 01:09:34.079
he's the uh the main character in mind the mind

01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:37.779
controlled song and video first single and you

01:09:37.779 --> 01:09:39.560
know he represents all the chaos and depression

01:09:39.560 --> 01:09:41.979
and everything that crept in and took over my

01:09:41.979 --> 01:09:44.550
brain If you take this world that we're living

01:09:44.550 --> 01:09:47.590
in as my brain, then he's the thing that came

01:09:47.590 --> 01:09:49.189
in and took over. There's another character named

01:09:49.189 --> 01:09:52.829
Jeff, and Jeff is this ancient Titan protector.

01:09:53.050 --> 01:09:54.710
He's one of the former protectors of this world.

01:09:54.770 --> 01:09:56.449
He's actually the main character in the prequel

01:09:56.449 --> 01:09:58.449
stories. He was my first character, my first

01:09:58.449 --> 01:10:01.630
Genesis character that I had for this. And he

01:10:01.630 --> 01:10:03.630
was what's called a dark eater, and the dark

01:10:03.630 --> 01:10:05.810
eaters ate all of the darkness in this world.

01:10:05.989 --> 01:10:07.689
And here you go. I'm writing this story not even

01:10:07.689 --> 01:10:09.770
thinking about depression at all, but here I

01:10:09.770 --> 01:10:12.050
am writing this whole thing about it. You know,

01:10:12.069 --> 01:10:14.810
even that far back, these Titans called dark

01:10:14.810 --> 01:10:17.590
eaters, and they would consume all of the darkness

01:10:17.590 --> 01:10:20.989
of this world and filter it out. And Devarin

01:10:20.989 --> 01:10:22.710
came along and killed all of the dark eaters.

01:10:22.710 --> 01:10:25.310
At least he thought that Jeff is the one that's

01:10:25.310 --> 01:10:28.430
left. And he, Jeff represents that former protection

01:10:28.430 --> 01:10:30.489
that you used to have, like in childhood. Like

01:10:30.489 --> 01:10:34.029
it's at some point I was a blissfully ignorant,

01:10:34.109 --> 01:10:37.430
happy child. you know and didn't had didn't deal

01:10:37.430 --> 01:10:39.609
with these thoughts and you know room i didn't

01:10:39.609 --> 01:10:42.090
ruminate on my my mental state so much you know

01:10:42.090 --> 01:10:44.449
and and at some point that thing came in and

01:10:44.449 --> 01:10:46.970
took it over and and so i have a character named

01:10:46.970 --> 01:10:49.609
azalea and azalea she basically fights against

01:10:49.609 --> 01:10:51.970
the fact that she was she's supposed to be this

01:10:51.970 --> 01:10:55.109
religious figure and she's supposed to be this

01:10:55.109 --> 01:10:56.750
spiritual religious figure but she's taken on

01:10:56.750 --> 01:11:00.729
the role of this assassin and so you know if

01:11:00.729 --> 01:11:02.170
i look at her and what i'm writing about with

01:11:02.170 --> 01:11:05.000
her it's this journey of faith and and you know

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.819
my journey back to faith from not having it to

01:11:07.819 --> 01:11:10.300
rediscovering it and so there's all this depth

01:11:10.300 --> 01:11:12.199
to this record that i that again it was kind

01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:14.020
of shocking for me to realize what i was writing

01:11:14.020 --> 01:11:17.600
about uh when i'm writing in in the song azalea

01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:19.539
and i'm singing in the bridge of this song it

01:11:19.539 --> 01:11:22.939
gets quiet and i'm i'm supposed to be her maybe

01:11:22.939 --> 01:11:25.159
her conscience or something talking to her or

01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:27.359
singing to her and i'm just telling her not to

01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.579
give up you know you can't give up you got you

01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:32.500
gotta like even when you know not till there's

01:11:32.500 --> 01:11:35.699
no more breath in your lungs when all is lost

01:11:35.699 --> 01:11:38.420
even past all is lost until until there's no

01:11:38.420 --> 01:11:41.659
other option left you don't give up and you know

01:11:41.659 --> 01:11:43.619
you realize that like that's that thing in my

01:11:43.619 --> 01:11:46.460
brain that keeps me going too and so it's just

01:11:46.460 --> 01:11:48.100
been you know starting with this graphic novel

01:11:48.100 --> 01:11:50.619
idea into this record then having that realization

01:11:50.619 --> 01:11:53.840
made the writing of the rest of the graphic novel

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:56.399
not that and again nowhere in this graphic novel

01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:58.180
or in this record does it talk about depression

01:11:58.180 --> 01:12:00.699
or does it talk about darkness or rather rather

01:12:00.699 --> 01:12:04.239
internal darkness or neurodivergence or any of

01:12:04.239 --> 01:12:07.119
these things, they're representative of those

01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:09.500
things, unintentionally representative of those

01:12:09.500 --> 01:12:11.180
things. But what it did was when I went back

01:12:11.180 --> 01:12:13.119
into the book writing and into the graphic novel

01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:15.520
writing, it just gave me so much more insight

01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:18.920
into the characters and it made the writing of

01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:22.979
the story so much more rich and enriching for

01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:28.119
me as well. Well, you've always been open about

01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:30.420
your struggles with depression and it's come

01:12:30.420 --> 01:12:32.539
out through the band's music. And it's something

01:12:32.539 --> 01:12:37.020
that I personally admire of you as well as the

01:12:37.020 --> 01:12:40.760
band, because there are songs like Get Up or

01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:44.279
A Symptom of Being Human. These are songs that

01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:47.000
speak to me. I'm someone who myself has been

01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.899
dealing with anxiety and battling that monster

01:12:49.899 --> 01:12:56.619
for years and maybe decades. I use for strength

01:12:56.619 --> 01:12:58.800
and comfort. When I get in my head, they bring

01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.680
me balance and they keep me grounded because

01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.720
sometimes with my struggles, I feel like I'm

01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:06.859
alone on an Island. And these are songs that

01:13:06.859 --> 01:13:09.920
when I hear lyrics like that, they speak to me

01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:12.479
as a fan. And I know that, you know what? We

01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:14.300
don't know each other personally, but through

01:13:14.300 --> 01:13:18.659
this song, I know I'm not alone. And from the

01:13:18.659 --> 01:13:23.520
first lyrics in, in a world unseen. You announce

01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:26.840
in here, we're all a little bent. We're all a

01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:29.140
little twisted and we're all a little broken

01:13:29.140 --> 01:13:32.779
right from the jump in this situation. I feel

01:13:32.779 --> 01:13:35.079
like even though you're saying that the album's

01:13:35.079 --> 01:13:37.920
not about mental health, it spoke to me that

01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.279
way. And when I listened to the album, I actually

01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:44.180
felt that presence in these songs. Was that something

01:13:44.180 --> 01:13:46.460
that you were looking to achieve with that? no

01:13:46.460 --> 01:13:48.119
that that's why i'm so astonished when i said

01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:50.020
i had that moment of like realization where it

01:13:50.020 --> 01:13:52.239
shocked me was that when i wrote those lyrics

01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:54.279
in here we're all a little bit we're all twisted

01:13:54.279 --> 01:13:55.939
we're all a little broken or when i'm inviting

01:13:55.939 --> 01:13:58.039
people in a world unseen welcome to a world unseen

01:13:58.039 --> 01:14:00.760
where i'm told the sky moves under me like it's

01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:02.659
upside down you know a place where reason has

01:14:02.659 --> 01:14:04.840
no sound and i swear that god's gone underground

01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:08.920
i was writing about this world right all those

01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:10.640
lyrics were written prior to that realization

01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:13.840
and then I'm listening to Good Night, Good Night.

01:14:13.939 --> 01:14:15.739
And what Good Night, Good Night is about is about

01:14:15.739 --> 01:14:19.020
leaving that child that you were. Because I do.

01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:22.100
I don't long to be a child again. But I'm enamored

01:14:22.100 --> 01:14:26.319
that I had this moment in my life when depression

01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:29.140
wasn't a part of it. Like, what happened? What

01:14:29.140 --> 01:14:31.699
took place that brought this in? Because if I

01:14:31.699 --> 01:14:34.539
could pick that piece of my brain out and throw

01:14:34.539 --> 01:14:38.710
it away forever... I always said I would. Creatively,

01:14:38.810 --> 01:14:40.670
it's something that makes me tick, so I don't

01:14:40.670 --> 01:14:43.130
know if I would throw it away. Look, when I'm

01:14:43.130 --> 01:14:44.949
down in it, I want to pull that piece of my brain

01:14:44.949 --> 01:14:47.210
out and just eject it and get rid of it because

01:14:47.210 --> 01:14:49.970
it is beating me about the head. It will not

01:14:49.970 --> 01:14:54.029
leave me alone. So I think back to what happened

01:14:54.029 --> 01:14:56.529
to that child, what happened to that young guy

01:14:56.529 --> 01:14:59.909
that didn't have to deal with this. And so Good

01:14:59.909 --> 01:15:03.930
Night, Good Night, in essence, again, This was,

01:15:03.930 --> 01:15:05.510
this was the realization as I'm writing about

01:15:05.510 --> 01:15:07.649
this characters, the hook at the end of the chorus

01:15:07.649 --> 01:15:09.470
says, I hope you're standing arm and arm with

01:15:09.470 --> 01:15:11.069
the things that did you harm. And I hope that

01:15:11.069 --> 01:15:13.090
you have a good night, meaning just, you know,

01:15:13.090 --> 01:15:15.789
I hope that you're still happy, you know, and,

01:15:15.829 --> 01:15:17.350
and even, even the things that harmed you, you're

01:15:17.350 --> 01:15:20.630
still okay with, but then realizing that like,

01:15:20.750 --> 01:15:23.789
no, I'm talking about myself. So having that

01:15:23.789 --> 01:15:26.149
realization after the fact of like, no, I didn't

01:15:26.149 --> 01:15:29.310
intend to write that down as, as meaning in here,

01:15:29.449 --> 01:15:31.649
we're all a little bent, we're all twisted, we're

01:15:31.649 --> 01:15:34.289
all a little broken, but. Now I can't hear it

01:15:34.289 --> 01:15:36.789
any other way. I still see the characters. It's

01:15:36.789 --> 01:15:38.350
still about the characters. It's still about

01:15:38.350 --> 01:15:42.090
the story. But realizing that this world that

01:15:42.090 --> 01:15:44.050
I've created, that these characters live on,

01:15:44.109 --> 01:15:47.229
this world called PAR, P -A -R, is, and look,

01:15:47.329 --> 01:15:48.569
I wish I could come up with better names, but

01:15:48.569 --> 01:15:50.430
sometimes when the universe speaks to you and

01:15:50.430 --> 01:15:52.930
says, your world is called PAR, you just go with

01:15:52.930 --> 01:15:56.529
it, you know? But that is my brain at the end

01:15:56.529 --> 01:15:58.489
of the day. Like I'm writing about this world

01:15:58.489 --> 01:16:01.569
that is my brain. and my soul and my heart and

01:16:01.569 --> 01:16:04.810
and uh it's not just brain it's it's way more

01:16:04.810 --> 01:16:07.550
than that but it was all completely unintentional

01:16:07.550 --> 01:16:10.949
and it's why when i'm doing and again i'm the

01:16:10.949 --> 01:16:13.289
world's worst business person i'm i'm a creative

01:16:13.289 --> 01:16:14.890
through and through and when it comes to the

01:16:14.890 --> 01:16:17.890
business side of things how to market i'm horrible

01:16:17.890 --> 01:16:19.729
i'm just terrible at i can make the donuts but

01:16:19.729 --> 01:16:21.909
i don't really know how to sell the donuts so

01:16:21.909 --> 01:16:24.550
i'm terrible at selling the donuts so when we

01:16:24.550 --> 01:16:26.210
were talking about when I was filling in the

01:16:26.210 --> 01:16:29.390
team, my management team and the people at 1RPM

01:16:29.390 --> 01:16:31.930
who are the distribution company and I'm publicist

01:16:31.930 --> 01:16:35.029
about the record, they all latched onto the depression,

01:16:35.189 --> 01:16:37.369
neurodivergent, you know, this record was written

01:16:37.369 --> 01:16:39.409
about, and I had to stop and say, no, it was

01:16:39.409 --> 01:16:41.130
not written about that. Like, that's why I don't

01:16:41.130 --> 01:16:43.069
lead with that normally because it's like, I

01:16:43.069 --> 01:16:44.369
don't want people to think that, oh, I set out

01:16:44.369 --> 01:16:46.029
to write this record and I just put it, made

01:16:46.029 --> 01:16:48.029
them characters. No, that's not what happened.

01:16:48.529 --> 01:16:50.109
I'm writing about these characters. These characters

01:16:50.109 --> 01:16:52.329
are genuine. They're real. The story exists.

01:16:52.689 --> 01:16:56.069
It is what it is. It's just that, I was writing

01:16:56.069 --> 01:16:59.770
so honestly about the subject matter and I didn't

01:16:59.770 --> 01:17:01.609
realize how much of myself I was pouring into

01:17:01.609 --> 01:17:04.000
this thing. And then when it was finished, it's

01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:06.079
like, oh, wow, man, you've just bared it all

01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:08.479
out here through these characters. And here's

01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:10.960
the interesting thing about that is some people

01:17:10.960 --> 01:17:12.859
will listen to it and maybe not get that wholly.

01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:14.439
They won't understand, well, in this song, what

01:17:14.439 --> 01:17:16.579
is this about? What does this mean? That's good.

01:17:16.760 --> 01:17:18.560
I don't want it to be a distraction when people

01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:20.020
are listening to the record. I don't want them

01:17:20.020 --> 01:17:23.739
thinking, oh, this is Eric having a sad dad moment.

01:17:23.779 --> 01:17:25.220
He just wrote this record about being depressed.

01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:28.340
No, man, it's not at all. Ultimately, the story...

01:17:28.619 --> 01:17:30.800
this record and this book are just the first

01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:33.039
of four books that are going to be written and

01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:34.479
told i don't know if i'll do a record for every

01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:36.880
single one but ultimately at the end of that

01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.659
story there's triumph down the road but you got

01:17:39.659 --> 01:17:41.579
to start somewhere you know and right now we're

01:17:41.579 --> 01:17:43.220
in the you know you got to start in the darkness

01:17:43.220 --> 01:17:46.119
to get to the light but yeah man i and i i hope

01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:48.220
that people listen to it and can pull something

01:17:48.220 --> 01:17:50.720
from it that will be helpful to them because

01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:53.979
at the end of the day i realize as i've gotten

01:17:53.979 --> 01:17:57.319
older that you know my job on earth isn't to

01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:00.659
be a musician my job is to help people and it's

01:18:00.659 --> 01:18:03.640
really something i'm passionate about and i only

01:18:03.640 --> 01:18:05.899
really know one way to do that to help people

01:18:05.899 --> 01:18:08.039
and that's just through the silly little things

01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:10.140
that i make you know whatever that is whether

01:18:10.140 --> 01:18:13.239
it's a song or a video or a album or and and

01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:14.680
some people won't say it's silly but i like calling

01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:17.640
them my silly little things you know because

01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:19.960
it is it's playtime man it's it's frivolous you

01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:22.399
know it's it's insane that a 50 year old man

01:18:22.399 --> 01:18:25.069
can make a living making songs but that's You

01:18:25.069 --> 01:18:28.930
know, that's what we do. So I would be dishonest

01:18:28.930 --> 01:18:30.510
if I didn't talk about those things. Because

01:18:30.510 --> 01:18:33.550
part of me, look, at one point I was like, maybe

01:18:33.550 --> 01:18:35.810
I shouldn't even bring this up about, because

01:18:35.810 --> 01:18:37.630
I don't want it to distract from the story or

01:18:37.630 --> 01:18:40.130
from the record. But I realized how important

01:18:40.130 --> 01:18:42.229
these things are. And there's not enough hope

01:18:42.229 --> 01:18:44.270
in the world. There's a lot of hope, but there's

01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:47.649
not enough of it. And so if someone can listen

01:18:47.649 --> 01:18:50.270
to a song like A World Unseen or All Good Children

01:18:50.270 --> 01:18:53.809
or Good Night, Good Night or Can't Go Home. If

01:18:53.809 --> 01:18:55.750
they can listen to those things and pull something,

01:18:55.810 --> 01:18:57.250
mind control, if they can pull something out

01:18:57.250 --> 01:18:59.449
of it that helps them with what they're going

01:18:59.449 --> 01:19:00.970
through, then that's what matters. And so that's

01:19:00.970 --> 01:19:03.210
why I thought that it was probably pretty important

01:19:03.210 --> 01:19:05.250
to talk about, maybe not to lead with it, but

01:19:05.250 --> 01:19:08.050
to talk about it for sure. Now, I've always wondered

01:19:08.050 --> 01:19:11.489
about the mindset of a single from within a concept

01:19:11.489 --> 01:19:14.409
album, because while I love hearing individual

01:19:14.409 --> 01:19:18.270
songs, let's use Planet Zero or Dead Don't Die

01:19:18.270 --> 01:19:21.590
from Planet Zero or... devil or the human radio

01:19:21.590 --> 01:19:24.270
from attention to tension. As much as I love

01:19:24.270 --> 01:19:25.989
listening to them when they come on shuffle,

01:19:26.310 --> 01:19:30.069
I feel like they hit harder when you listen to

01:19:30.069 --> 01:19:32.810
the album as a whole. Maybe I'm, that's just

01:19:32.810 --> 01:19:35.229
me getting the quote unquote full experience

01:19:35.229 --> 01:19:38.229
of the song from the artist's vision. But with

01:19:38.229 --> 01:19:41.289
that said, was it a challenge for you to decide

01:19:41.289 --> 01:19:44.050
which of these songs would be the best representation

01:19:44.050 --> 01:19:47.750
of the album in the months leading up to this

01:19:47.750 --> 01:19:52.630
release? Months, try days. There was no single

01:19:52.630 --> 01:19:54.930
written for this record. So this has been its

01:19:54.930 --> 01:19:59.590
own dark comedy in and of itself, this single

01:19:59.590 --> 01:20:03.449
picking business for this record. Because unlike

01:20:03.449 --> 01:20:05.810
a Shinedown record, I can listen to the songs

01:20:05.810 --> 01:20:07.649
that we have written before we've ever recorded

01:20:07.649 --> 01:20:10.069
them for a Shinedown record and go, that's a

01:20:10.069 --> 01:20:11.609
single, that's a single, that's a single, that's

01:20:11.609 --> 01:20:14.470
a single, that's a single, for sure. Sometimes

01:20:14.470 --> 01:20:16.689
all of them have potential to be singles if we've

01:20:16.689 --> 01:20:20.010
been blessed, right? But... With this record,

01:20:20.130 --> 01:20:22.229
I intentionally just said, I'm not worried about

01:20:22.229 --> 01:20:25.010
time. I'm not worried about don't Boris get to

01:20:25.010 --> 01:20:27.069
the chorus. I'm not worried about any of that

01:20:27.069 --> 01:20:29.310
stuff. I'm just going to write these pieces of

01:20:29.310 --> 01:20:32.109
music that maybe take a left turn here and come

01:20:32.109 --> 01:20:33.829
back. Maybe they take a right turn and never

01:20:33.829 --> 01:20:36.430
come back. I'm just going to write these songs

01:20:36.430 --> 01:20:38.189
and they're just going to be what they are. I

01:20:38.189 --> 01:20:39.750
want to make pieces of art. I just want to make

01:20:39.750 --> 01:20:42.109
music. That's all I want to do. And so that's

01:20:42.109 --> 01:20:44.210
how I went about this whole record. Then when

01:20:44.210 --> 01:20:46.529
I finally decided to release the record, which

01:20:46.529 --> 01:20:48.710
actually wasn't that long ago, I said days, not

01:20:48.710 --> 01:20:52.310
months. It was only a few months ago that I decided

01:20:52.310 --> 01:20:54.390
that I was really going to go at this in earnest.

01:20:55.109 --> 01:20:58.109
I'd say probably, honestly, probably July. But

01:20:58.109 --> 01:21:00.029
the record was finished, so that's a big part

01:21:00.029 --> 01:21:02.010
of it now. But then the question of single came

01:21:02.010 --> 01:21:03.470
up, and I was like, you know, I've never thought

01:21:03.470 --> 01:21:04.890
about it. I never thought about this going to

01:21:04.890 --> 01:21:06.050
radio. I never thought about this having to be

01:21:06.050 --> 01:21:07.909
on playlists. Yeah, I just thought about people

01:21:07.909 --> 01:21:09.510
listening to the record beginning to end. That's

01:21:09.510 --> 01:21:13.079
what it's about. I couldn't pick it. I thought

01:21:13.079 --> 01:21:15.000
maybe a song called Azalea would be the single,

01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:19.319
but it's a little long for a single for certain

01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:22.260
people that you have to placate. But I'm not

01:21:22.260 --> 01:21:24.079
going to edit it. I don't want to edit any of

01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:25.460
these songs. I don't want to pull anything out

01:21:25.460 --> 01:21:27.579
of it. If I were to pull the middle of Azalea

01:21:27.579 --> 01:21:30.060
out, it's just another rock song. I love the

01:21:30.060 --> 01:21:32.020
fact that it has this piano interlude thing in

01:21:32.020 --> 01:21:33.899
the middle, and it's what makes the song itself.

01:21:34.460 --> 01:21:36.640
So I sent the record around to a bunch of friends

01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:39.220
and other business, I say business people, that's

01:21:39.220 --> 01:21:40.619
a terrible way to put them, people in our camp.

01:21:40.859 --> 01:21:43.260
who I'm very close to, and just said, hey, let

01:21:43.260 --> 01:21:44.640
me know what you think the single is. And everybody

01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:46.659
came back with a different answer. I mean, Brent

01:21:46.659 --> 01:21:48.479
thought a song called New Graves was the single.

01:21:48.939 --> 01:21:51.380
I thought Azalea was the single. Some other people

01:21:51.380 --> 01:21:53.899
thought Goodnight Goodnight was a single. All

01:21:53.899 --> 01:21:56.340
Good Children got thrown out there and Mind Control.

01:21:56.560 --> 01:21:58.859
And like, it's just like it ultimately everyone's

01:21:58.859 --> 01:22:00.439
saying there were a couple of songs that were

01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:02.800
outliers that no one talked about. But so then

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:04.260
we had to have a call. And it's like, what are

01:22:04.260 --> 01:22:06.060
we what are we doing? Like, this is I don't I

01:22:06.060 --> 01:22:08.260
don't know. I. I was almost like, take this out

01:22:08.260 --> 01:22:10.260
of my hands because I don't know what the single

01:22:10.260 --> 01:22:11.840
is. Like, I've told you that from the beginning.

01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:14.180
Like, I love all of these songs. Let's just find

01:22:14.180 --> 01:22:16.920
one. And everyone thought that it came down to

01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.420
a failure of mind control. And everyone thought

01:22:19.420 --> 01:22:20.539
mind control was a lot more straightforward.

01:22:21.100 --> 01:22:22.659
You know, the song starts immediately with the

01:22:22.659 --> 01:22:26.420
lyric and it's high energy. And so that's how

01:22:26.420 --> 01:22:28.000
it happened, man. I mean, I wish there was some

01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:31.260
sexy way to put it, but it's like I've had just

01:22:31.260 --> 01:22:33.460
as much trouble figuring this out as anybody

01:22:33.460 --> 01:22:36.770
else. i was in the midst of making the videos

01:22:36.770 --> 01:22:39.770
too and i had to stop and and uh yeah i'm directing

01:22:39.770 --> 01:22:41.649
the videos and editing the videos and everything

01:22:41.649 --> 01:22:45.710
so i had to make the mind control video and i

01:22:45.710 --> 01:22:48.329
think it confused people because again one thing

01:22:48.329 --> 01:22:50.210
you learn in the record business is like there

01:22:50.210 --> 01:22:52.989
is no perfect plan there is no you just do it

01:22:52.989 --> 01:22:55.270
just put something out like don't think about

01:22:55.270 --> 01:22:57.670
it too much don't try to be too calculated if

01:22:57.670 --> 01:22:59.949
you're too calculated it'll all fall apart so

01:22:59.949 --> 01:23:01.890
this whole rolling out mind control while not

01:23:01.890 --> 01:23:04.239
perfect in my mind it's like okay That's what

01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:05.380
we're doing. We're rolling out mind control.

01:23:05.479 --> 01:23:08.880
Well, the WAL and Legion, which is like the two

01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:10.720
entities that make up the government in my world,

01:23:10.779 --> 01:23:13.720
their logo is that purple diamond looking thing.

01:23:13.880 --> 01:23:17.600
And so that DeVarn's video is purple. Like that's

01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:20.439
every character's video has a color. And so I

01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:22.720
was like, man, we're rolling right back out with

01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:24.760
the. Planet Zero colors. You know, it's like

01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:26.720
people are going to think like, A, they're going

01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:28.439
to be confused, or B, they're going to think

01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:30.039
that we're not that creative or I'm not that

01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.600
creative. But that's why purple again. So again,

01:23:32.979 --> 01:23:34.920
not in a perfect world, not what I would have

01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:37.159
done. But through this record making process

01:23:37.159 --> 01:23:38.579
and just trying to make the right decisions,

01:23:38.619 --> 01:23:40.840
I talked earlier about coming back into my faith.

01:23:41.119 --> 01:23:45.029
And this is my father passed away. picked back

01:23:45.029 --> 01:23:47.310
up the bible and and got back into my faith and

01:23:47.310 --> 01:23:49.329
one thing i did with with this record was i just

01:23:49.329 --> 01:23:51.130
said ask for god's help with it i was like because

01:23:51.130 --> 01:23:52.369
i didn't know what to do i didn't know how to

01:23:52.369 --> 01:23:53.970
how to do it i was like hey i'll do the work

01:23:53.970 --> 01:23:55.750
please you know of course i'm gonna do the work

01:23:55.750 --> 01:23:57.829
but i'm putting this in your hands you just leave

01:23:57.829 --> 01:24:01.310
me leave me around and so when mind control is

01:24:01.310 --> 01:24:02.630
just supposed to be the first single that's what

01:24:02.630 --> 01:24:04.750
it is i'm not questioning anything at all there's

01:24:04.750 --> 01:24:06.130
a lot of peace in that man there's a lot of peace

01:24:06.130 --> 01:24:08.810
and not questioning and just doing and so uh

01:24:08.810 --> 01:24:10.890
because believe me man this especially the video

01:24:10.890 --> 01:24:14.020
making process has tried to fall apart a couple

01:24:14.020 --> 01:24:15.739
of times, you know, like pretty hard. And it's

01:24:15.739 --> 01:24:17.199
just like, I just pivot to something else and

01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:19.260
pivot back to something else. And there's a lot

01:24:19.260 --> 01:24:22.279
of peace in that of just knowing that I put this

01:24:22.279 --> 01:24:24.420
in a higher power's hands and that there's no

01:24:24.420 --> 01:24:26.960
wrong answers. It's just doing the thing. I'll

01:24:26.960 --> 01:24:28.840
give you a perfect example. The mind control

01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:31.979
video, I didn't realize until three days ago

01:24:31.979 --> 01:24:35.840
when I put headphones on, was in mono. How about

01:24:35.840 --> 01:24:37.220
that? Everybody's been listening to the video

01:24:37.220 --> 01:24:40.539
in mono and I didn't know it. And... That would

01:24:40.539 --> 01:24:43.560
have spun me out before. Like a couple of years

01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:46.119
ago, I would be like, ah, you know, this is in

01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:48.840
mono. Oh my God, we got to fix this. I just very

01:24:48.840 --> 01:24:50.819
calmly went in and found, it was my mistake,

01:24:50.960 --> 01:24:53.020
found out what had happened. It wasn't my mistake.

01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:54.819
It was something that had happened in an import

01:24:54.819 --> 01:24:57.579
that I didn't catch. I hate it when that happens.

01:24:58.180 --> 01:25:00.600
Somehow it had imported, instead of importing

01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:02.180
a left channel and a right channel, it imported

01:25:02.180 --> 01:25:04.760
two left channels. Oh, wow. Yeah, very, very

01:25:04.760 --> 01:25:07.460
strange. So left and left, which is better than

01:25:07.460 --> 01:25:09.140
left and right down the middle. But, you know,

01:25:09.159 --> 01:25:11.899
left and left. So probably why it still sounded

01:25:11.899 --> 01:25:13.180
pretty good. It's probably why I didn't notice

01:25:13.180 --> 01:25:14.640
it. There's nothing phasey about it coming through

01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:16.199
my speakers. I didn't, you know, think about

01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:19.500
it. But I just very calmly went in, rebounced

01:25:19.500 --> 01:25:21.439
another audio file and called the team like,

01:25:21.539 --> 01:25:23.760
hey, can we can we get YouTube to let us upload,

01:25:23.920 --> 01:25:26.239
you know, another. But just something like that,

01:25:26.359 --> 01:25:28.720
man, just being more at peace with with things

01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:30.279
maybe not going the way that I think they should

01:25:30.279 --> 01:25:34.199
go, because you realize that that. again i feel

01:25:34.199 --> 01:25:37.819
like i'm here to help people and so whatever

01:25:37.819 --> 01:25:39.699
i have to do to make that happen there is no

01:25:39.699 --> 01:25:41.640
fire to get to there's no reason to get angry

01:25:41.640 --> 01:25:43.579
about things like that i mean i get frustrated

01:25:43.579 --> 01:25:46.239
of course i'm a human but i'm not a monk you

01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:49.340
know but uh it's been very calming to kind of

01:25:49.340 --> 01:25:52.140
release a record this way and just sort of not

01:25:52.140 --> 01:25:54.060
have it have to have all of this gravity around

01:25:54.060 --> 01:25:56.020
it like that's what tends to happen when you're

01:25:56.020 --> 01:25:58.380
releasing records and big projects is it's all

01:25:58.380 --> 01:26:00.869
this gravity and seriousness to it and It's like,

01:26:00.909 --> 01:26:02.890
I'm very serious about this. I spent a lot of

01:26:02.890 --> 01:26:05.050
time and a lot of, a lot of effort on it. I spent

01:26:05.050 --> 01:26:07.069
a lot of money, you know, to put this thing out,

01:26:07.130 --> 01:26:09.829
but it doesn't feel like that. It feels like

01:26:09.829 --> 01:26:12.569
it's just, this is what it's supposed to be.

01:26:12.590 --> 01:26:14.609
It feels, it's very calming. It's almost off

01:26:14.609 --> 01:26:16.909
-putting for me in a way, like personally to

01:26:16.909 --> 01:26:18.329
feel this way. Cause it's like, this isn't how

01:26:18.329 --> 01:26:19.710
it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be chaotic.

01:26:19.750 --> 01:26:22.050
And you know, it's just, it just hasn't been

01:26:22.050 --> 01:26:24.989
that, but that sort of calming stuff started

01:26:24.989 --> 01:26:27.310
with the single. It was like, yeah, man, there

01:26:27.310 --> 01:26:30.470
is no wrong answer. Like, cool. Mind Control

01:26:30.470 --> 01:26:32.909
is the single. I wish I had a sexy answer. I

01:26:32.909 --> 01:26:33.989
was like, I knew from the beginning that was

01:26:33.989 --> 01:26:35.989
a single. No, man, I didn't know from the beginning.

01:26:36.010 --> 01:26:37.930
I'm still not sure. I don't even know if it's

01:26:37.930 --> 01:26:39.869
the best song on the record, but it's there.

01:26:40.310 --> 01:26:42.149
All right. You've talked about it before, so

01:26:42.149 --> 01:26:45.170
I have to bring it up again. Azalea. Yep. To

01:26:45.170 --> 01:26:48.609
me, what stands out about this song is the dynamics

01:26:48.609 --> 01:26:51.369
in it. There are several different musical tones

01:26:51.369 --> 01:26:53.949
throughout this four minutes and 20 second runtime.

01:26:54.489 --> 01:26:58.369
The open almost feels like this whimsical, swirling

01:26:58.369 --> 01:27:02.180
dream sequence. The chorus is fucking pummeling.

01:27:02.180 --> 01:27:04.579
Pardon my language there, but it is. And then

01:27:04.579 --> 01:27:06.600
you have the melodic bridge you talked about

01:27:06.600 --> 01:27:10.460
earlier. But it all feels perfectly at home together.

01:27:10.539 --> 01:27:12.319
And I think the reason for that, and this is

01:27:12.319 --> 01:27:14.600
something I would love to ask you as you're a

01:27:14.600 --> 01:27:18.199
producer as well as a musician, there's actual

01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:22.279
dynamics in this song. The loudness wars aren't

01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:25.140
happening here. When you're quiet with just your

01:27:25.140 --> 01:27:28.729
voice and a piano, the song is quieter. It's

01:27:28.729 --> 01:27:32.210
not as loud as when the entire band is playing

01:27:32.210 --> 01:27:34.829
and it's a heavy, mountainous, thunderous part

01:27:34.829 --> 01:27:38.390
of the song. There's actual dynamics in the music.

01:27:38.689 --> 01:27:41.390
As a producer, I'd love to know your thoughts

01:27:41.390 --> 01:27:43.970
on is that something that you were looking to

01:27:43.970 --> 01:27:47.810
do? Because I know in modern rock music, everybody's

01:27:47.810 --> 01:27:50.369
trying to push towards louder is better because

01:27:50.369 --> 01:27:53.340
of earbuds. But there are people out there that

01:27:53.340 --> 01:27:56.520
genuinely care about dynamics and sound. And

01:27:56.520 --> 01:27:58.159
as a producer, I'd love to know your thoughts

01:27:58.159 --> 01:28:03.420
on that. Yeah. I mean, for me, emotion has always

01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:06.399
been in the dynamics. Even in a loud song, I

01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:07.800
want the chorus to be a little louder than the

01:28:07.800 --> 01:28:14.380
verses. And I've developed a sense for that stuff

01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:16.000
over the years. And I've developed a technical

01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:20.039
way of making it happen in a mix that if anyone

01:28:20.039 --> 01:28:22.170
is curious about it, if they... ever want to

01:28:22.170 --> 01:28:24.770
ask me i'm happy to divulge i don't have any

01:28:24.770 --> 01:28:29.130
secrets um but uh it just involves and i'm sure

01:28:29.130 --> 01:28:30.569
that i'm sure i'm not i know i'm not the only

01:28:30.569 --> 01:28:32.510
person that does this but it involves working

01:28:32.510 --> 01:28:35.289
the master fader on the output of a song you

01:28:35.289 --> 01:28:37.229
know when it's like i want that chorus to move

01:28:37.229 --> 01:28:40.270
a great example of that is is black soul on attention

01:28:40.270 --> 01:28:42.890
attention like the way that chorus hits you know

01:28:42.890 --> 01:28:44.829
that course rips your head off when it kicks

01:28:44.829 --> 01:28:48.010
in i love that man it's just you know and azalea

01:28:48.010 --> 01:28:49.869
does that too and i'm glad you i'm glad you could

01:28:49.869 --> 01:28:51.960
feel that and i appreciate that Thank you to

01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:54.319
Ted Jensen, the legendary Ted Jensen, mastering

01:28:54.319 --> 01:28:56.560
engineer at Sterling Sound, because he masters

01:28:56.560 --> 01:29:00.520
all of Shinedown's records and all of my records

01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:04.600
and anything I work on, I have him master, because

01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:08.000
he appreciates that stuff too. And believe me,

01:29:08.039 --> 01:29:10.079
man, it's something I have to come to terms with

01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:12.359
when I listen back to a mastered record that

01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:14.800
I've made, which is, this is not going to be

01:29:14.800 --> 01:29:16.779
as loud as everybody else's record, probably,

01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:21.479
like comparatively. It's just not. there's a

01:29:21.479 --> 01:29:23.819
volume knob there. And if you turn it up three

01:29:23.819 --> 01:29:27.920
clicks, three dB, whatever that is, then it will

01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:30.039
be as loud as everybody else's record and it'll

01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:33.060
have dynamics. And so that is a conscious thing

01:29:33.060 --> 01:29:35.920
I do. I realized that I have to give up some

01:29:35.920 --> 01:29:39.920
loudness shock value in that. Everybody wants

01:29:39.920 --> 01:29:41.939
a loud record, man. I want a loud record. I want

01:29:41.939 --> 01:29:43.579
a really loud record. I want the loudest record

01:29:43.579 --> 01:29:47.619
out there. Everybody does. But you can't have

01:29:47.619 --> 01:29:51.369
it both ways. And so... Yeah, man, it's a conscious

01:29:51.369 --> 01:29:53.229
thing. I definitely make those decisions. I'd

01:29:53.229 --> 01:29:55.569
much rather, I want something to breathe. I want

01:29:55.569 --> 01:29:58.189
it to move. I want it to, you know, for me, it

01:29:58.189 --> 01:30:00.010
just makes the exciting parts more exciting,

01:30:00.090 --> 01:30:02.470
you know? And that's what I'm after. I'm after

01:30:02.470 --> 01:30:04.609
that, you know, I want the hair on my arm to

01:30:04.609 --> 01:30:07.210
stand up. And I know when I'm working on a mix

01:30:07.210 --> 01:30:08.850
when that happens. Like, I'm like, that's it.

01:30:08.930 --> 01:30:13.050
That's the one. And there's something to learning

01:30:13.050 --> 01:30:15.289
how to play a mixing board like an instrument.

01:30:15.810 --> 01:30:18.550
I mean, even in my mixes. So even aside from

01:30:18.550 --> 01:30:21.659
working the master fader in the mix, itself you

01:30:21.659 --> 01:30:23.779
know where their drum fills i'm turning the whole

01:30:23.779 --> 01:30:25.699
drum kit up and down on drum fills and then when

01:30:25.699 --> 01:30:27.939
the chorus hits the drums are coming up a db

01:30:27.939 --> 01:30:30.539
maybe a db and a half on the chorus and then

01:30:30.539 --> 01:30:32.899
back down and then maybe some of that guitar

01:30:32.899 --> 01:30:34.739
is coming in a little bit louder on the chorus

01:30:34.739 --> 01:30:37.260
and you know you just sort of i want this thing

01:30:37.260 --> 01:30:40.020
to breathe and be open like like there's a tendency

01:30:40.020 --> 01:30:43.920
not everybody i'm it's not a broad stroke i'm

01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:45.920
painting here i'm not saying every mixer does

01:30:45.920 --> 01:30:48.020
this or every and i'm also not saying that i

01:30:48.020 --> 01:30:51.239
know what i'm doing You know, I just end up with

01:30:51.239 --> 01:30:54.039
a result that I like. But there's a tendency

01:30:54.039 --> 01:30:56.380
to just compress, compress, compress, compress,

01:30:56.520 --> 01:30:59.640
compress until you don't have to move any faders,

01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:02.739
especially with vocals. Like just compress the

01:31:02.739 --> 01:31:04.340
vocal till it just sits on top of everything

01:31:04.340 --> 01:31:06.539
all the time. You don't have to move anything.

01:31:07.100 --> 01:31:10.199
I've always been a fan of compress less and automate

01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:13.239
more. So automating, like I'll listen through

01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:16.260
the vocal and I'll mouth the vocal with my eyes

01:31:16.260 --> 01:31:18.720
closed. And if there's any lyric in there that

01:31:18.720 --> 01:31:20.399
I feel, or any syllable that I feel like gets

01:31:20.399 --> 01:31:22.279
lost, there's a T in there that gets lost or

01:31:22.279 --> 01:31:24.800
an S or a, the end of this word gets lost. I'm

01:31:24.800 --> 01:31:26.439
going to automate that up. And if you look at

01:31:26.439 --> 01:31:29.720
my, if you look at my automation on my, uh, my

01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:34.279
sessions, my drums, my vocals mainly are just

01:31:34.279 --> 01:31:35.500
up and down and up and down and up and down and

01:31:35.500 --> 01:31:36.819
up. And there's just dots everywhere all over

01:31:36.819 --> 01:31:38.760
the screen where that vocal is getting automated.

01:31:39.279 --> 01:31:41.500
Uh, and then my master bus is, is kind of, is

01:31:41.500 --> 01:31:43.600
the same way. My master bus, my master fader

01:31:43.600 --> 01:31:46.239
is going to be the same way. what's interesting

01:31:46.239 --> 01:31:49.840
is when i sometimes i mix out to my master fader

01:31:49.840 --> 01:31:52.260
on the analog console and so then i'm actually

01:31:52.260 --> 01:31:53.960
doing it in real time too you know so it just

01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:56.199
depends on what the it's a lot easier if you

01:31:56.199 --> 01:31:57.939
keep the master fader in the box to do it but

01:31:57.939 --> 01:32:01.659
in the computer but yeah man that's just uh why

01:32:01.659 --> 01:32:04.279
record anything quiet if you don't want it quiet

01:32:04.279 --> 01:32:06.119
yeah i don't want it to disappear completely

01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:09.659
but you get the idea Oh, 100%. When I listen

01:32:09.659 --> 01:32:12.920
to A Symptom of Being Human in the album listen

01:32:12.920 --> 01:32:16.260
of Planet Zero, that's taking down in a moment

01:32:16.260 --> 01:32:19.079
on the album. And I think because of how you

01:32:19.079 --> 01:32:22.539
thought about dynamics is why that song really

01:32:22.539 --> 01:32:25.319
took off the way it did. I truly feel the music

01:32:25.319 --> 01:32:28.239
in that song. Obviously, the message is what

01:32:28.239 --> 01:32:30.600
resonated with so many people, but the music

01:32:30.600 --> 01:32:34.619
that sits underneath this message. is so calming,

01:32:34.720 --> 01:32:37.199
but then it builds. And the way the drums come

01:32:37.199 --> 01:32:42.380
in, Barry's not doing some like progressive rock

01:32:42.380 --> 01:32:47.560
opus. He's playing to the song, but it's so big

01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:51.060
because of the way the song has such dynamics.

01:32:51.500 --> 01:32:54.760
Where in other songs, if it was just a loud overall

01:32:54.760 --> 01:32:58.819
mix, you'd have to almost play more to try to

01:32:58.819 --> 01:33:03.060
fight the loudness wars. Yep. Yeah, and it's

01:33:03.060 --> 01:33:04.460
not just dynamics with that either. You talk

01:33:04.460 --> 01:33:06.460
about the last chorus of Symptom of Being Human.

01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:08.279
Something interesting happens there too with

01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:10.800
the drums. And musicians are going to get this.

01:33:11.340 --> 01:33:14.279
I'm not getting too inside baseball. But all

01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:16.819
of the chord changes at that last chorus, once

01:33:16.819 --> 01:33:18.539
it builds in, they all take place on the and

01:33:18.539 --> 01:33:21.600
and not on the beat. So it causes the last chorus

01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:23.880
to hop and kind of move differently. If we had

01:33:23.880 --> 01:33:26.260
just left, shout out to Barry Kirsch, if we had

01:33:26.260 --> 01:33:29.020
left... the kick drums just right on the beat.

01:33:29.479 --> 01:33:33.399
Sometimes I'm in a club where I boom, clack,

01:33:33.420 --> 01:33:40.380
boom, and it's just boom, boom, clack like that.

01:33:40.680 --> 01:33:44.239
That'll end move right there at the end, lifts

01:33:44.239 --> 01:33:47.319
that song a ton. It's unbelievable how much that

01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:50.100
changed everything when that happened. Things

01:33:50.100 --> 01:33:53.420
like that are the flourish on the end of the

01:33:53.420 --> 01:33:56.909
painting, like we're painting on air. If you've

01:33:56.909 --> 01:33:59.229
ever watched someone paint, I get to watch my

01:33:59.229 --> 01:34:02.069
buddy Rob Pryor paint. Rob is doing all of the

01:34:02.069 --> 01:34:04.210
artwork for my graphic novel. He did all the

01:34:04.210 --> 01:34:06.710
artwork in the album cover. He's a phenomenal

01:34:06.710 --> 01:34:11.210
artist. P -R -I -O -R, Rob Pryor. Pryor2art is

01:34:11.210 --> 01:34:14.289
his Instagram. You should check it out. But I

01:34:14.289 --> 01:34:16.649
get to watch him paint. And there's always some

01:34:16.649 --> 01:34:18.090
flourish at the end of the painting. You'll think

01:34:18.090 --> 01:34:19.210
the painting's done and you're sitting there

01:34:19.210 --> 01:34:21.409
looking at it and then he'll do like one more

01:34:21.409 --> 01:34:24.579
thing to it. and that's it and you realize that

01:34:24.579 --> 01:34:27.260
one last thing is the thing that's like it's

01:34:27.260 --> 01:34:29.039
like the sign off the signature you know it's

01:34:29.039 --> 01:34:32.319
not the signature and it makes the painting that

01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:34.260
one little thing is what gives it its flavor

01:34:34.260 --> 01:34:36.619
that you didn't know it needed and so there are

01:34:36.619 --> 01:34:38.319
little things like that like the last chorus

01:34:38.319 --> 01:34:40.579
on symptom where where you just change the kind

01:34:40.579 --> 01:34:42.579
of causal hop where the bass notes are changing

01:34:42.579 --> 01:34:45.560
on the ands instead of on the uh on the ones

01:34:45.560 --> 01:34:47.979
or there's a pickup on the end i guess is a better

01:34:47.979 --> 01:34:49.180
way of putting the chords aren't changing on

01:34:49.180 --> 01:34:51.189
that but That's that little flourish, man, that

01:34:51.189 --> 01:34:52.850
you didn't know you needed, that makes the song

01:34:52.850 --> 01:34:55.130
live and makes it breathe. And that along with

01:34:55.130 --> 01:34:57.550
the dynamics, you know, it just, I don't know,

01:34:57.590 --> 01:34:59.930
man. It's funny you say that we're talking about

01:34:59.930 --> 01:35:01.149
this because I think about some of the music

01:35:01.149 --> 01:35:05.079
that I love. There's other stuff, man, that has

01:35:05.079 --> 01:35:07.439
no dynamics in it whatsoever that I just absolutely

01:35:07.439 --> 01:35:10.760
love. Sometimes I love being pummeled. Oh, of

01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:13.380
course. If I'm listening to a metal album, dynamics

01:35:13.380 --> 01:35:15.319
be damned at that point. I don't want any dynamics

01:35:15.319 --> 01:35:18.460
in that at all. If I'm listening to System of

01:35:18.460 --> 01:35:20.340
a Down or something like that, man, I want to

01:35:20.340 --> 01:35:24.039
be annihilated. Slipknot or something. Yeah.

01:35:24.039 --> 01:35:26.300
Lamb of God for me, but you know, Totally. Same

01:35:26.300 --> 01:35:27.899
thing, man. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't want

01:35:27.899 --> 01:35:31.439
dynamics. What are you talking about? So I have

01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:33.779
to, if you don't mind, this has been such an

01:35:33.779 --> 01:35:36.100
amazing conversation, but I have a couple of,

01:35:36.100 --> 01:35:39.600
I will kick myself if I don't ask short shine

01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:42.000
down questions for you that are going to come

01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:45.239
from a fan perspective, my personal shine down

01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:48.340
fandom. Sure. And the first one is I'm a huge

01:35:48.340 --> 01:35:51.100
fan of cover songs and no, I'm not talking about

01:35:51.100 --> 01:35:55.130
simple man. The Warner sound live room EP that

01:35:55.130 --> 01:35:58.109
you guys put out, you covered. I feel the earth

01:35:58.109 --> 01:36:00.770
move from Carol King. Yeah. I'd love to know

01:36:00.770 --> 01:36:03.329
whose idea that was and how that came into the

01:36:03.329 --> 01:36:06.670
band because you guys frigging slayed that cover.

01:36:06.770 --> 01:36:08.930
I love the gender flip on it. I love everything

01:36:08.930 --> 01:36:10.750
about it. Cool. Thanks, man. Glad you noticed

01:36:10.750 --> 01:36:16.149
that too. Yeah. So the gist of that was we recorded

01:36:16.149 --> 01:36:18.770
in Henson studios in Los Angeles. And so it was.

01:36:19.530 --> 01:36:21.369
they wanted each artist that came in and did

01:36:21.369 --> 01:36:22.930
that. So there were multiple artists that went

01:36:22.930 --> 01:36:24.829
in and did the end live room. And it was a live

01:36:24.829 --> 01:36:27.310
recording. Like there's no, there's no overdubs.

01:36:27.310 --> 01:36:30.310
Well, on I Feel the Earth Moving on, on I'll

01:36:30.310 --> 01:36:31.890
Follow You, I did overdub the bass because I

01:36:31.890 --> 01:36:34.329
couldn't play the piano and the bass. Wait, wait,

01:36:34.369 --> 01:36:37.649
wait, you can't? No, come on. But technically

01:36:37.649 --> 01:36:40.430
it's all live in the room. So the piano and the

01:36:40.430 --> 01:36:42.750
guitar and the drums and the vocals were all

01:36:42.750 --> 01:36:45.069
done live. and no punch -ins either like it's

01:36:45.069 --> 01:36:46.470
like you're just going to do this song this is

01:36:46.470 --> 01:36:48.609
what you're going to do uh do these songs you

01:36:48.609 --> 01:36:50.590
i think there were four of your own songs that

01:36:50.590 --> 01:36:53.369
you wanted to do and then one song that had been

01:36:53.369 --> 01:36:57.770
recorded in henson studios and so the list was

01:36:57.770 --> 01:36:59.670
long of stuff that we could do i mean the black

01:36:59.670 --> 01:37:02.489
album was done in henson studios appetite for

01:37:02.489 --> 01:37:05.569
destruction was done at henson studios and this

01:37:05.569 --> 01:37:09.050
list goes on and on but you know we wanted i

01:37:09.050 --> 01:37:11.029
just always want to do something unique you know

01:37:11.029 --> 01:37:12.310
it's like what are people not going to expect

01:37:13.140 --> 01:37:16.159
And Brent and I had thrown around multiple ideas

01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:19.079
and he called me and he's like, hey man, what

01:37:19.079 --> 01:37:22.079
about Carole King? And I'm like, I had not thought

01:37:22.079 --> 01:37:24.819
of that. Like that's not even one that came up

01:37:24.819 --> 01:37:26.960
in conversation at all. And he's like, yeah,

01:37:26.979 --> 01:37:29.819
I feel the earth move and you make me feel like

01:37:29.819 --> 01:37:32.420
a woman. All those songs were done in Henson.

01:37:32.579 --> 01:37:36.000
And I'm like, oh man, awesome. So I got to work

01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:37.239
on it, man. I was like, let me throw something

01:37:37.239 --> 01:37:38.319
together. Let me throw an arrangement together.

01:37:38.800 --> 01:37:41.819
and so uh this we put you make me feel as the

01:37:41.819 --> 01:37:44.659
bridge to the song basically so to speak i had

01:37:44.659 --> 01:37:46.560
to find a way to get down there but we we threw

01:37:46.560 --> 01:37:48.119
that hook in there at the end of the guitar solo

01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:50.800
but i uh i threw together an arrangement sent

01:37:50.800 --> 01:37:53.699
it out to the guys everybody loved it and that

01:37:53.699 --> 01:37:55.340
was the first time we played it together was

01:37:55.340 --> 01:37:58.279
in that session i think wow yeah we'd all rehearsed

01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:01.479
it on our own but we hadn't we hadn't rehearsed

01:38:01.479 --> 01:38:03.220
it as a band we literally i think we all showed

01:38:03.220 --> 01:38:05.159
up at los angeles the day before that and just

01:38:05.159 --> 01:38:07.779
went in and did it The interesting thing about

01:38:07.779 --> 01:38:10.460
that version, man, is that's the same piano that

01:38:10.460 --> 01:38:13.159
she recorded that song on. So if you listen to

01:38:13.159 --> 01:38:15.960
my intro and her intro, it's obviously the same

01:38:15.960 --> 01:38:18.600
instrument. That gives me chills to this day.

01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:21.220
Because when I hear her version of it, it's like,

01:38:21.300 --> 01:38:24.800
I know that piano, man. But yeah, man, we just

01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:26.699
wanted to just do something people didn't expect,

01:38:26.840 --> 01:38:29.319
I guess. If there's one thing that makes us tick

01:38:29.319 --> 01:38:32.500
as a band, that's what it is. Because a lot of

01:38:32.500 --> 01:38:35.340
people second guess us a lot. And it's caused

01:38:35.340 --> 01:38:37.680
us to walk around with a little chip on our shoulder.

01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:40.020
So just to kind of make the chip bigger, sometimes

01:38:40.020 --> 01:38:41.560
we want to do things that people don't expect

01:38:41.560 --> 01:38:46.220
as well. All right. Second question. Attention,

01:38:46.359 --> 01:38:49.640
Attention album. A New Way to Die was a bonus

01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:51.880
track that you can only get if you purchase the

01:38:51.880 --> 01:38:54.520
album at Walmart and you had to download it and

01:38:54.520 --> 01:38:57.899
it was only an MP3. So being such a huge fan

01:38:57.899 --> 01:39:00.119
of this one, I have to ask, and it's a small

01:39:00.119 --> 01:39:02.819
minor gripe of all the years I've been a Shinedown

01:39:02.819 --> 01:39:06.329
fan. How did A New Way to Die not make the original

01:39:06.329 --> 01:39:08.550
Attention, Attention album? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:08.590 --> 01:39:12.789
I don't remember why that's not on the record.

01:39:13.170 --> 01:39:14.869
And honestly, you just brought up a song that

01:39:14.869 --> 01:39:17.130
I had not thought about in a lot of years. I

01:39:17.130 --> 01:39:19.090
hadn't thought about that song in a minute. Wow,

01:39:19.250 --> 01:39:21.989
man. I remember recording that song for sure.

01:39:22.789 --> 01:39:25.210
Zach played bass on that. Oh, really? Yeah, on

01:39:25.210 --> 01:39:27.350
that song. I played guitar on that song. He played

01:39:27.350 --> 01:39:30.270
bass on that song. We do that a lot. We switch.

01:39:30.829 --> 01:39:33.210
If you write the riff in Shine Down, you... generally

01:39:33.210 --> 01:39:34.850
going to play the song on the record. Like there's

01:39:34.850 --> 01:39:38.029
no, or a song like dead, don't die. The intro

01:39:38.029 --> 01:39:40.989
is Zach. The intro and verses is Zach. Cause

01:39:40.989 --> 01:39:42.729
he wrote the, he wrote that. And then it gets

01:39:42.729 --> 01:39:44.250
to the chorus and I wrote the chorus riff. So

01:39:44.250 --> 01:39:46.270
I played the choruses on that song. So there's,

01:39:46.270 --> 01:39:48.170
there's, there's a lot of like flip -flops switching

01:39:48.170 --> 01:39:50.050
around, you know, kind of stuff that happens

01:39:50.050 --> 01:39:52.289
on our records like that. Zach played bass on

01:39:52.289 --> 01:39:55.930
a new way to die. I don't, I don't know. I don't

01:39:55.930 --> 01:39:57.649
have an answer for you. I don't know why that's

01:39:57.649 --> 01:39:59.770
not on the record. Here's the thing. Obviously

01:39:59.770 --> 01:40:03.689
at the end of the day, we decided. The word committee

01:40:03.689 --> 01:40:05.069
sounds awful. Everything happens by committee,

01:40:05.170 --> 01:40:07.649
meaning the four band members decide what do

01:40:07.649 --> 01:40:10.909
we think the record is. And at some point, that

01:40:10.909 --> 01:40:12.390
was decided that didn't belong on the record

01:40:12.390 --> 01:40:14.250
for whatever reason. So that's the best answer

01:40:14.250 --> 01:40:17.729
I have for you. I wish I had something more woo

01:40:17.729 --> 01:40:20.170
-woo than that, but that's it. Okay, so then

01:40:20.170 --> 01:40:22.250
for this third question, I wouldn't be doing

01:40:22.250 --> 01:40:25.729
my part as a podcaster if I didn't ask if there

01:40:25.729 --> 01:40:28.170
was any dirt that you'd be willing to share on

01:40:28.170 --> 01:40:31.270
Shinedown 8 with the My Weekly Mixtape listeners.

01:40:32.450 --> 01:40:37.510
Oh, dirt about it. Trying to think of dirt at

01:40:37.510 --> 01:40:39.949
this point. Man, I don't know why this is the

01:40:39.949 --> 01:40:41.210
first thing that popped in my head, and I apologize

01:40:41.210 --> 01:40:43.289
if this is not what you're looking for. The first

01:40:43.289 --> 01:40:46.109
set of songs that we wrote for the record, it

01:40:46.109 --> 01:40:48.729
was me, Brent, and Dave Bassett wrote. I was

01:40:48.729 --> 01:40:51.310
not well. I was not mentally well the whole time.

01:40:51.770 --> 01:40:54.550
And there's a song called The Killing Fields,

01:40:54.710 --> 01:40:57.930
which is a song that I love very much. Dance

01:40:57.930 --> 01:41:01.340
Kids Dance is another one that we wrote. Searchlight

01:41:01.340 --> 01:41:03.659
is another song we wrote. But there's one in

01:41:03.659 --> 01:41:08.300
particular called The Pilot that is... It's one

01:41:08.300 --> 01:41:11.800
of the sweetest things. I don't know if anyone's

01:41:11.800 --> 01:41:15.300
ever given me a sweeter gift than this. And I

01:41:15.300 --> 01:41:17.079
wish I could take credit for the writing of the

01:41:17.079 --> 01:41:19.359
song, but it wasn't me. There's a song called

01:41:19.359 --> 01:41:21.979
The Pilot that's going to be on the record that...

01:41:22.399 --> 01:41:23.979
i had a moment man where i just like kind of

01:41:23.979 --> 01:41:25.939
unloaded and vented to dave and to brent because

01:41:25.939 --> 01:41:27.420
we're all great friends it was just one of those

01:41:27.420 --> 01:41:29.039
things about how like man i'm not in a good place

01:41:29.039 --> 01:41:30.279
and not you know i don't know what's happening

01:41:30.279 --> 01:41:34.460
with my brain and and you know not sure i want

01:41:34.460 --> 01:41:36.560
to be here and all of that stuff you know it

01:41:36.560 --> 01:41:38.159
helps to talk about those things with people

01:41:38.159 --> 01:41:40.119
i encourage everyone to talk about those things

01:41:40.119 --> 01:41:41.420
like even the stuff you don't want to say like

01:41:41.420 --> 01:41:42.920
when i say i don't want to be here like that's

01:41:42.920 --> 01:41:45.260
a heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy thing to

01:41:45.260 --> 01:41:48.180
say but sometimes man you have to make your friends

01:41:48.180 --> 01:41:49.800
your therapist and sometimes you have to just

01:41:50.109 --> 01:41:51.449
they don't have to have the answers but it just

01:41:51.449 --> 01:41:53.189
helps for you to articulate those things to somebody

01:41:53.189 --> 01:41:55.409
but i got done articulating these things to him

01:41:55.409 --> 01:41:59.210
and the next day we got back to writing and it

01:41:59.210 --> 01:42:01.689
wasn't going well and brent looked at dave and

01:42:01.689 --> 01:42:03.350
said do you want to play it for me i said what

01:42:03.350 --> 01:42:06.649
are you talking about and uh evidently brent

01:42:06.649 --> 01:42:09.069
had gone by dave's hotel room that night after

01:42:09.069 --> 01:42:10.630
we got finished and dave was working on this

01:42:10.630 --> 01:42:12.310
song and he played it for brent and brent's like

01:42:12.310 --> 01:42:14.869
i mean you got to play that for eric and dave's

01:42:14.869 --> 01:42:16.390
like i don't know man he's like that's super

01:42:16.390 --> 01:42:19.270
personal like i don't know And I think Dave thought

01:42:19.270 --> 01:42:21.109
maybe I'd be mad or something. I was like, that

01:42:21.109 --> 01:42:22.569
was nothing of the sort. And he played me this

01:42:22.569 --> 01:42:24.930
song called the pilot that he wrote about me

01:42:24.930 --> 01:42:27.729
and about what I was going through from my perspective.

01:42:27.949 --> 01:42:31.529
And dude, it's like, I can't wait for everybody

01:42:31.529 --> 01:42:34.609
to hear it. It's again, I wish I could claim

01:42:34.609 --> 01:42:36.710
songwriting on it. I don't have any songwriting

01:42:36.710 --> 01:42:38.729
on it whatsoever. I played the acoustic guitar

01:42:38.729 --> 01:42:41.409
on it and recorded it, but it's a very different

01:42:41.409 --> 01:42:43.210
place for Brent's voice too, because it's soft.

01:42:43.550 --> 01:42:45.350
You know, there's no trying to overpower the

01:42:45.350 --> 01:42:48.109
song at all ever once in the song. He's basically

01:42:48.109 --> 01:42:50.130
singing in a speaking voice the whole song and

01:42:50.130 --> 01:42:54.609
it's, I don't know, just probably the, I don't

01:42:54.609 --> 01:42:56.550
know, when I think about gifts that people have

01:42:56.550 --> 01:42:59.390
given me over the years, that's just one that,

01:42:59.470 --> 01:43:02.890
you know, and I probably don't tell him enough,

01:43:02.970 --> 01:43:04.449
I probably don't tell Dave enough about it either.

01:43:04.590 --> 01:43:06.850
But yeah, there you go. There's some, sorry,

01:43:06.989 --> 01:43:10.050
this kind of solemn dirt, but it's dirt nonetheless.

01:43:10.350 --> 01:43:11.710
Either it's dirt or not, but it's just something

01:43:11.710 --> 01:43:13.789
that, that's the first inside scoop on the record

01:43:13.789 --> 01:43:16.159
anybody's had. How about that? All right. Well,

01:43:16.260 --> 01:43:18.180
the one thing I will follow it up with then,

01:43:18.300 --> 01:43:21.399
attention, attention, concept album. I have a

01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:24.920
name, concept album. Planet Zero, concept album.

01:43:25.819 --> 01:43:29.060
Shinedown 8? Not a concept album. All right.

01:43:29.140 --> 01:43:32.159
Not a concept album. Back to more of what Threat

01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:34.420
to Survival was, what Sound of Madness was, which

01:43:34.420 --> 01:43:36.600
is just a collection of songs. And definitely

01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:39.239
all from a real place. Nothing's changed in that

01:43:39.239 --> 01:43:41.800
department. It's just, that was sort of something

01:43:41.800 --> 01:43:43.640
agreed upon before we even started writing. It's

01:43:43.640 --> 01:43:47.380
like, let's just, you know. And again, it's like,

01:43:47.399 --> 01:43:49.819
I think everyone's gaze kind of shoots at me

01:43:49.819 --> 01:43:51.460
when they say concept record, because it's like,

01:43:51.500 --> 01:43:53.340
I've been responsible for those three records

01:43:53.340 --> 01:43:55.699
and they're all three concept records. But all

01:43:55.699 --> 01:43:57.579
of those were unintentional, other than my record.

01:43:57.619 --> 01:43:59.340
My record was not an unintentional concept record,

01:43:59.460 --> 01:44:01.159
but the rest of them were pretty unintentional.

01:44:01.180 --> 01:44:04.239
They ended up just being what they are. So this

01:44:04.239 --> 01:44:05.800
time we're like, let's just try to spread the

01:44:05.800 --> 01:44:07.500
subject matter around a little more this time

01:44:07.500 --> 01:44:09.420
and see if we can't come up with some interesting

01:44:09.420 --> 01:44:14.159
things. But wait. There's more. However, if you

01:44:14.159 --> 01:44:16.460
like what you're hearing, be sure to visit the

01:44:16.460 --> 01:44:19.840
episode page at myweeklymixtape .com, where you

01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:22.479
can check out a full playlist featuring all the

01:44:22.479 --> 01:44:25.380
songs we've discussed in this episode, as well

01:44:25.380 --> 01:44:28.479
as some video and photos from the band's 2025

01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:31.960
debut at Madison Square Garden. You can find

01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:36.180
that over on the episode page at myweeklymixtape

01:44:36.180 --> 01:44:39.989
.com. Now, normally, this is the point I would

01:44:39.989 --> 01:44:42.550
start wrapping things up. However, Eric and I

01:44:42.550 --> 01:44:45.649
continue talking long after the episode recording

01:44:45.649 --> 01:44:48.189
was done, and he was kind enough to allow me

01:44:48.189 --> 01:44:49.989
to run some of this. So I'm going to play some

01:44:49.989 --> 01:44:52.909
bonus content for you guys right now here where

01:44:52.909 --> 01:44:55.729
he's talking about some of his experiences being

01:44:55.729 --> 01:44:59.010
on the road with Iron Maiden and the first time

01:44:59.010 --> 01:45:04.069
that he met Wolfgang Van Halen of Mammoth. Well,

01:45:04.090 --> 01:45:07.069
dude, like two interesting stories is Nico's

01:45:07.069 --> 01:45:09.270
like the most awesome dude. And he would have

01:45:09.270 --> 01:45:10.970
his dressing room was next to our room every

01:45:10.970 --> 01:45:13.250
day. And he'd just get to listen to him warm

01:45:13.250 --> 01:45:15.350
up every day. It was like, we'd be coming off

01:45:15.350 --> 01:45:17.189
stage and he'd be warming up. And it's just like,

01:45:17.189 --> 01:45:19.270
oh, but he'd pop in every day. It's just the

01:45:19.270 --> 01:45:21.989
most affable, genuine person. Their whole crew

01:45:21.989 --> 01:45:24.090
is, man. Everybody out there is like that. Same

01:45:24.090 --> 01:45:26.229
thing happened with Kiss too, man. Kiss was like,

01:45:26.250 --> 01:45:29.210
they were just so, one of the great lessons our

01:45:29.210 --> 01:45:31.250
band learned from those two tours, not that we

01:45:31.250 --> 01:45:34.079
didn't already know this, is. how to treat other

01:45:34.079 --> 01:45:38.239
bands, how to treat the opening acts. A lot of

01:45:38.239 --> 01:45:40.300
bands treat the opening acts like shit. It's

01:45:40.300 --> 01:45:43.060
like this power move or something. And both of

01:45:43.060 --> 01:45:44.779
those bands just treated us with so much respect.

01:45:45.020 --> 01:45:49.460
And there was no fart sniffing or anything like

01:45:49.460 --> 01:45:51.899
that. These guys and girls were just so amazing.

01:45:52.079 --> 01:45:55.020
But the other thing is that Bruce, when we finally

01:45:55.020 --> 01:45:58.399
got into the UK on that tour, that he'd be rolling

01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:01.000
in late to every show, every single show, because...

01:46:01.780 --> 01:46:04.399
He just took the trains everywhere. He's like,

01:46:04.420 --> 01:46:06.899
ah, I'm good. Like when we were in London, he

01:46:06.899 --> 01:46:08.920
was taking the tube. He was taking the underground,

01:46:09.140 --> 01:46:11.779
then got on a surface train out to O2 Arena or

01:46:11.779 --> 01:46:13.779
whatever, just traveling like that. Like just,

01:46:13.840 --> 01:46:15.239
he's like, hey, I need somebody to come pick

01:46:15.239 --> 01:46:16.619
me up from the train station. You know, it's

01:46:16.619 --> 01:46:19.100
not like, and again, it's like, it's a reminder

01:46:19.100 --> 01:46:21.880
of like. And I think it's just something that's

01:46:21.880 --> 01:46:23.800
ingrained in us too as a band. It's like, I get

01:46:23.800 --> 01:46:25.500
paid to be a rock star for two hours a night.

01:46:25.560 --> 01:46:27.340
And then once I get off stage, man, drop the

01:46:27.340 --> 01:46:30.340
rock star thing. You have to do that on stage

01:46:30.340 --> 01:46:32.739
to a point, to do the thing, to put on the show,

01:46:32.819 --> 01:46:34.140
to do the moves, to do all this stuff. You have

01:46:34.140 --> 01:46:36.739
to feel somewhat larger than life to do that.

01:46:37.060 --> 01:46:39.140
But when that show's over with, man, just go

01:46:39.140 --> 01:46:42.319
back to... Just be yourself. And I love that

01:46:42.319 --> 01:46:44.380
about Bruce Dickinson, man. He's like, yeah,

01:46:44.460 --> 01:46:46.739
I'm just taking the train around. And another

01:46:46.739 --> 01:46:50.140
great thing about him too, dude, his son Austin,

01:46:50.500 --> 01:46:54.500
his band, they opened for us on a tour. And Austin

01:46:54.500 --> 01:46:57.899
is such a good kid. He's not a kid, he's a man,

01:46:58.119 --> 01:47:02.560
but I'm old. And I can say the same thing about

01:47:02.560 --> 01:47:04.159
Wolfgang Van Halen too, because I met Wolfgang

01:47:04.159 --> 01:47:05.819
Van Halen when he was young. I met Wolfgang at

01:47:05.819 --> 01:47:09.520
17. And my first thought was like, your parents

01:47:09.520 --> 01:47:11.680
are really good parents. Like, that's the first

01:47:11.680 --> 01:47:13.739
thing I thought about with Wolfgang. And it's

01:47:13.739 --> 01:47:14.859
the first thing I thought about with Austin.

01:47:15.340 --> 01:47:17.779
Because I know so many shithead kids who have

01:47:17.779 --> 01:47:20.859
famous parents. And the parents just allow the

01:47:20.859 --> 01:47:22.079
kids to do whatever the fuck they want to do

01:47:22.079 --> 01:47:24.460
and don't give them any guidance in life. And

01:47:24.460 --> 01:47:26.479
you can tell with Austin Dickinson that, and

01:47:26.479 --> 01:47:28.539
again with Wolfgang as well, but with Austin

01:47:28.539 --> 01:47:32.600
that he had, his parents are awesome. Because

01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:36.039
he's just way too... sweet and normal and caring

01:47:36.039 --> 01:47:38.840
and loves his dad. Like, dude, his dad came to

01:47:38.840 --> 01:47:42.819
the shows to watch his son play and would just

01:47:42.819 --> 01:47:45.020
deflect every bit of attention away from himself

01:47:45.020 --> 01:47:48.479
onto his son. And it's just, you can tell, man,

01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:50.659
that he has a loving family. Bruce Dickinson

01:47:50.659 --> 01:47:53.380
is a loving father, which is a really good thing

01:47:53.380 --> 01:47:55.619
to know. The interesting thing is I have not

01:47:55.619 --> 01:47:58.899
spoken to Wolfgang Van Halen since then. Really?

01:47:59.159 --> 01:48:02.279
I just haven't had like a, we've done one festival

01:48:02.279 --> 01:48:05.789
with him one time. and i wasn't able to to say

01:48:05.789 --> 01:48:07.670
anything or get around i just you know again

01:48:07.670 --> 01:48:09.850
we have never been in each other's sphere it

01:48:09.850 --> 01:48:11.930
was at a uh it was a nickelback show we were

01:48:11.930 --> 01:48:15.109
opening for nickelback in 2008 i think or nine

01:48:15.109 --> 01:48:19.270
and wolfgang he he was uh i was standing up on

01:48:19.270 --> 01:48:21.670
this up on the front of house on the riser at

01:48:21.670 --> 01:48:23.270
front of house behind the soundboard watching

01:48:23.270 --> 01:48:25.670
the nickelback show and i happened to notice

01:48:25.670 --> 01:48:28.329
in between one of the songs this kid was trying

01:48:28.329 --> 01:48:31.729
to get up on the riser and he had his girlfriend

01:48:31.729 --> 01:48:34.710
with him obviously and The security guard was

01:48:34.710 --> 01:48:35.970
like, he's looking at his pass and the security

01:48:35.970 --> 01:48:37.630
guard was like, no, I'm sorry. And the kid's

01:48:37.630 --> 01:48:39.930
like, and so I just went down and I was like,

01:48:40.029 --> 01:48:42.409
hey, he can come up here, you know? So the kid

01:48:42.409 --> 01:48:44.829
gets up on the thing. And by the way, Van Halen

01:48:44.829 --> 01:48:48.810
was my seminal band when I was a kid. Van Hagar

01:48:48.810 --> 01:48:51.270
first, because that's just what I fell into.

01:48:51.369 --> 01:48:52.829
We're going to talk about the 5150 tape that

01:48:52.829 --> 01:48:54.869
I got. Yes. And then I worked backward into the

01:48:54.869 --> 01:48:59.670
rest of it. So I was in the throes of Van Halen

01:48:59.670 --> 01:49:02.170
obsession when Born Lawful Carnal Knowledge came

01:49:02.170 --> 01:49:05.600
out. Anyone who's a Van Halen fan understands

01:49:05.600 --> 01:49:09.020
that that record, Wolfgang being born, Eddie

01:49:09.020 --> 01:49:12.079
Van Halen talked about his son incessantly as

01:49:12.079 --> 01:49:14.420
he should when he was doing press for that record,

01:49:14.500 --> 01:49:18.000
so all the fans knew about Wolfgang. But I hadn't

01:49:18.000 --> 01:49:19.479
seen a picture of the kid since he was super

01:49:19.479 --> 01:49:21.340
young, whatever, I didn't know. But anyway, this

01:49:21.340 --> 01:49:24.359
17 -year -old teenager kid comes up on the drum

01:49:24.359 --> 01:49:26.770
riser. or no, the drummer, the riser in front

01:49:26.770 --> 01:49:29.649
of the house. And I said, hey, man, I said, what's

01:49:29.649 --> 01:49:31.270
going on? He said, oh, they were, you know, they

01:49:31.270 --> 01:49:33.010
said I had the wrong pass. And he's like, I was

01:49:33.010 --> 01:49:35.010
just going to go back and get another one and

01:49:35.010 --> 01:49:37.149
blah, blah, blah. And he was so sweet. I was

01:49:37.149 --> 01:49:39.170
like, oh, dude, you know, I got you, man. No

01:49:39.170 --> 01:49:40.729
problem. I said, what's up? My man's Eric. He

01:49:40.729 --> 01:49:42.689
goes, hi, I'm Wolfgang. And I just instantly,

01:49:42.710 --> 01:49:44.390
it clicked. I'm like, oh, this kid's got backstage

01:49:44.390 --> 01:49:46.930
passes. Who else is named Wolfgang? And then

01:49:46.930 --> 01:49:49.470
the kid looked just like Valerie Bertinelli.

01:49:49.569 --> 01:49:51.930
I was like, oh. dude like hey what's up man nice

01:49:51.930 --> 01:49:53.550
to meet you you know and like so for me it was

01:49:53.550 --> 01:49:55.510
like almost like a fanboy thing in a weird way

01:49:55.510 --> 01:49:57.710
because it was like like dude i've been following

01:49:57.710 --> 01:50:00.010
you since you were an infant you know but the

01:50:00.010 --> 01:50:02.229
thing that stuck with me about him in that moment

01:50:02.229 --> 01:50:06.329
was like any other kid whose dad's in a famous

01:50:06.329 --> 01:50:09.710
band much less eddie van halen's and bertinelli's

01:50:09.710 --> 01:50:12.859
son would have given the security guard shit.

01:50:13.020 --> 01:50:14.460
Would have been like, what do you mean? This

01:50:14.460 --> 01:50:17.060
is my line. Started raising hell, you know? And

01:50:17.060 --> 01:50:19.000
I was just watching this kid be super respectful.

01:50:19.220 --> 01:50:21.119
That's why I brought him up. He was like, oh.

01:50:21.420 --> 01:50:23.760
I could hear him say, oh, okay. Well, let me

01:50:23.760 --> 01:50:25.939
go back and see if I can get this. And he told

01:50:25.939 --> 01:50:27.079
his girlfriend, he's like, you wait here. Who's

01:50:27.079 --> 01:50:29.300
his now wife, I believe. Like, you wait here

01:50:29.300 --> 01:50:31.859
and I'll go, you know. And I was like, that's

01:50:31.859 --> 01:50:33.260
what I'm talking about. You have to have good

01:50:33.260 --> 01:50:35.800
parents at that point. Like, you're like, you

01:50:35.800 --> 01:50:38.500
know, you were not raised by. Parents who weren't

01:50:38.500 --> 01:50:40.340
teaching you respect, you know, and how to respect

01:50:40.340 --> 01:50:42.800
people. So anyway, there you go. Those are two

01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:46.380
inside stories. I think it's safe to say there's

01:50:46.380 --> 01:50:49.460
no shortage of amazing things going on in the

01:50:49.460 --> 01:50:52.479
Shinedown camp. As you're listening to this episode

01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:56.859
right now, 2026 is going to be a massive year

01:50:56.859 --> 01:51:00.460
for the band. Shinedown 8 is on the way, and

01:51:00.460 --> 01:51:03.699
I can't wait to hear what the band has in store

01:51:03.699 --> 01:51:07.460
for us in the new year. I hope you guys have

01:51:07.460 --> 01:51:10.000
enjoyed this Sound of Shinedown celebration.

01:51:10.279 --> 01:51:13.680
If you have, please subscribe at Apple Podcasts,

01:51:13.680 --> 01:51:16.279
Spotify, YouTube, wherever you listen to podcasts.

01:51:16.720 --> 01:51:20.239
Drop a five -star review. Follow me on social

01:51:20.239 --> 01:51:23.859
media at My Weekly Mixtape. Send me an email,

01:51:24.119 --> 01:51:27.500
myweeklymixtape at gmail .com. Join the Patreon

01:51:27.500 --> 01:51:31.359
mixtaper community at patreon .com forward slash

01:51:31.359 --> 01:51:35.090
myweeklymixtape. or browse the back catalog of

01:51:35.090 --> 01:51:39.149
My Weekly Mixtape episodes over at myweeklymixtape

01:51:39.149 --> 01:51:43.090
.com. Once again, my name is Brian Colburn. This

01:51:43.090 --> 01:51:45.350
has been My Weekly Mixtape, and I appreciate

01:51:45.350 --> 01:51:48.409
you all tuning in, especially if you've made

01:51:48.409 --> 01:51:51.270
it this deep into the episode. Thank you. Thank

01:51:51.270 --> 01:51:54.170
you. Thank you. And we will see you next week.

01:51:54.210 --> 01:51:57.109
Actually, we'll see you next year. Happy New

01:51:57.109 --> 01:51:57.710
Year, everybody.