Hey, it's Matt Scannell from Vertical Horizon,
and you're listening to My Weekly Mixtape with
Brian Colburn, and it's awesome. Welcome to My
Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that takes the classic
mixtape approach to building a modern playlist.
I'm your host, Brian Colburn. On tonight's special
album dive edition of the show, I'm joined by
singer -songwriter Matt Scannell of Vertical
Horizon. And we're about to dive into the band's
breakthrough album, Everything You Want, which
is celebrating its 25th anniversary this summer
with a brand new translucent orange vinyl LP
pressing. Matt, thank you so much for joining
me on my weekly mixtape. Hey, Brian. Thanks for
having me. Well, before we dive into the album,
I always like to ask my first time guests, what
does the word mixtape mean to you? Oh, man. Yeah.
TDK, Maxell, handwritten notes. You know, I took
it very seriously. I would write when like I've
tried to make it look like a font. You know what
I mean? When I'm like writing them out. And I
remember my childhood best friend, he thought
I should be listening to Yes. He was like, you
should get into Yes. And I remember him making
me some Yes mixtapes. And he even drew like the
Yes logo, like the Roger Dean Yes logo on it.
Yeah, no, I have lots of affection and memories
of mixtapes. I mean, that was my generation,
Brian. I mean, that, there you go. I was there,
literally cassettes. That is the same here. And
by the time this album came out, the subject
of today's episode, Vertical Horizons, Everything
You Want, I would say we were more on the mixed
CD phase of life. But the album was released
on June 15th, 1999, and is actually the band's
third album, but first on a major label following
1992's There and Back Again and 1995's Running
on Ice. Could you talk about the evolution of
Vertical Horizon from those independent and self
-produced releases to working with a major label,
RCA Records, for everything you want? Yeah, no,
it was a huge, huge transition. It was quite
a journey to get there from here, as it were.
You know, we started the band as an acoustic
duo, just myself and Keith Cain. And if you listen
to There and Back Again, it's very much, that
kind of an ethos, just two acoustic guitars,
two vocals and sort of incidental percussion
and keyboards and stuff. And then we, you know,
I had always played in bands growing up. So the
kind of acoustic thing was a little bit more
of a sidebar for me rather than the main, you
know, the main journey, you know, a side street,
I guess, rather than the main journey. So I kind
of encouraged us to bring more guys onto the
stage, drums and bass. You know, you could only
move so many people in a room. This is, of course,
Ed Sheeran has blown that completely out of the
water. But at the time, we believed that you
could only move people so much in a room with
two acoustic guitars. And so then, you know,
yeah, we brought in drums and bass, and then
we recorded Running on Ice. And Carter Beauford
from Dave Matthews Band. I have to always give
him love and appreciation because he, when we
were looking to have a drummer on the record,
he came down and, or came up rather to DC from
Charlottesville and played on about half the
record. And you could just hear the joy that
he brings to music in all of his tracks. It's
really inspiring and incredible. And that was
our first. Time sort of recording as more of
a band in terms of the instrumentation. And then,
yeah, we toured incessantly for, I guess we started
in 91 and this is probably around 97, 98. We
started meeting with major labels. And in the
meanwhile, we actually released a live record
called Live Stages that we kind of recorded almost
as... Out of frustration, let's say, because
we weren't getting to the next step, which was
at the time to sign with a major label. And so
the beginning of that record starts with like
40 seconds of just the audience going crazy.
And we then sent that record to every A &R person
we could think of. And we knew that at the very
least, if they listened to it at all, they were
going to have to listen to 40 seconds of, people
who really got us even if they didn't and we
also at that time we sold our 70 ,000th record
on sound scan so as an independent artist we
had sold 70 ,000 units And I think those two
things, hearing the audience like that, and then
the numbers to sort of back it up, that was what
kind of brought the major labels sort of, you
know, around to our band. And we ultimately signed,
we wound up signing with RCA. And it was a great,
great place to be. And then we really experienced
what it's like to have a world -class team kind
of. pulling for you and raising you up, you know,
many, many, many levels. And that's what the
Everything You Want experience was. Well, let's
dive into that experience. I'm a sucker for album
opening tracks. So let's start there with the
album's opening track, We Are. Now, in hindsight,
the band had no idea what was about to happen
with the album's second single, as that wouldn't
be released for another six months. But that
being said, we are reached number 21 on the U
.S. Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart. And this
was the song that introduced me to the band's
music through my college radio station, 90 .3
WMSC. Looking back on that six -month gap between
We Are and the band dropping the single Everything
You Want, because We Are was chosen as the lead
single, what was the initial reception for the
album during that time period? You know, it's
a really good question. I think it was, so first
of all, the label wanted to lead with a more
sort of rock -heavy song. Because they knew that
in an ideal world, we would get to songs like
Everything You Want and You're a God and Best
I Ever Had. I think that was, I think they even
probably knew back then that maybe that was the
order that it would go in. And so at the time,
and I'm not sure exactly why this is, but they
sort of, let's lead with something that's a little
bit more hard hitting to sort of establish you
as a band that has an edge to it. And we are
certainly as an edge. I mean, it's an intense
song and I think a great way to open the record
and probably subsequently a great way to introduce
our music to people at a bigger, wider level.
But I don't think it, you know, clearly it didn't.
It didn't burn up the charts. It didn't become
a hugely successful song. I do remember hearing
it on WBCN in Boston. I grew up in Worcester,
Massachusetts in the middle of the state. And
I remember hearing it on BCN and thinking, well,
this is it. I mean, if it stops now, I'm done.
I'm good. Honestly, I was like, okay, yeah, I'll
need to find another job now. But if this is
it, I heard my song on WBCN. Radio was hugely
important to the story of this band. It was sort
of that sweet spot of time where we were sort
of just pre -Napster and the scene at radio was
still really, really vibrant. And so people were
buying records and radio was still really flourishing
and kind of each market was kind of... to a certain
degree, unique. But yeah, I wouldn't say that
we did all the work that we were hoping it would
do. But at the same time, it paved the way for
at least for us to get on to the next single,
which did a bit better. I was going to say October
19th, 1999, the album's title track, Everything
You Want, is released to Alternative Radio. Somewhere
there's speaking, it's already coming in. Oh,
and it's rising at the back of your mind. You
never could get in unless you were fitted. Now
you're here and you don't know why. But under
skinned knees and the skid marks, past the places
where you used to run. Now, everything you want
didn't reach number one on the U .S. Billboard
Hot 100 until July 15th, 2000, following its
commercial release in June of 2000. Looking back
on this in hindsight, October of 1999 to July
of 2000. is a long time for a song to be given
to make that ascent. Can you talk about the initial
alternative radio reception and how that decision
was made to push it commercially at that point?
Because in 2024 terms, that time period is just,
it's almost staggering. So I think, and I'm not
sure if it still does, but I think at the time
it had a record of the single that took the longest
to get to number one. And really, so I think
that's a couple of things. I think I remember
that people reacted very favorably to it. People
who were hearing it on the radio would call the
radio station and say, Hey, I really liked that
song. Could you play it again? So there was a
lot of people, there were a lot of people calling
the stations that were playing the song, which
sort of bode well for other radio stations, maybe
having a similar experience. Also, RCA, you know,
again, we were at a label that was rooting for
us. They really wanted us to succeed. And you
can see it, I mean, just in the time that they
gave us with that song alone, right? Clearly,
they believed in it. They believed in us. And
they wanted us to have that, you know, have that
shot of having a song that would do, you know,
well, let's say top 10. And yeah, then the thing
just started to gather momentum. And it almost
became this, you had this sense that it was something
that was going to become an evergreen song, even
while it was a new song. There was something
about it. I don't know what it is, but there's
something about Everything You Want that just,
it just felt like, oh, this is going to stick
around for a while. As opposed to something that
just climbs up the charts and then disappears.
You know, people seemed to want to hear it again
and again and again. And I don't know what that
is particularly. I have thoughts, but I'm not
exactly sure what that is. But it was incredible.
I mean, yeah, I remember thinking, wouldn't it
be great if this song continued to climb up the
charts? Like we had been slogging it out in beer
soaked. bars for seven years and then you finally
are at a place where your life really could change
you know this could make a difference for the
rest of your life and hope you know i just remember
hoping doing everything we could which was a
lot we worked very very hard but also just hoping
that this maybe would be something that could
Stick around. And the beautiful thing now too
is 25 years later, this record has a deeply important
place in a lot of people's lives. And it's also
the other thing, it's one of the many things
that's beautiful about this is we're seeing it
from the perspective of multiple generations.
So we've got, you know, the original, our friends
and fans who were with us originally back in
2000, but now you've got, you know. their kids
and now their kids are having kids. So we've
got, you know, here's what happens. You're in
a line, like a meet and greet line. And at first
it's, you know, in 2000 is I love your band.
I love your music. Okay, cool. Hey, thank you
so much. Then 10, 15 years later, it's my mom
loves your music. My mom really loves your music.
Okay, that's cool. It's weird, but it's cool.
And now 2024, it's, oh yeah, my grandfather played
me your record. He loves your record. And it's
strange on the one hand to be like acknowledging
that time stands still for no one and you're
just moving on along with the rest of us. And
there are a lot of younger people who are coming
up, but that's the best case scenario, man. Like
for families. to have an affinity for our music,
it's a miracle. It's a total miracle. So 25 years,
on the one hand, it's strange. On the other hand,
it is the greatest, you know? Well, in past interviews,
you've stated that Everything You Want is a personal
story of unrequited love. As the track skyrocketed
to being Billboard's most played single of 2000,
How did that impact you as a songwriter? Because
for well over a year, the public continued to
respond and resonate with something that stemmed
from a, let's be honest here, probably not an
easy experience. And that's something that you
kind of poured your heart and soul out into the
lyrics, into this song. Does that feel almost
like a closure? Does that bring you a sense of
peace? Yeah, there's no peace, Brian. There's
never any peace. We don't have any peace. So
it's a really great question. When I was younger,
I wrote from a place of pain most of the time.
I was trying to help myself feel better, trying
to fix the pieces inside of myself that are broken.
And as a consequence, I would cause trauma. in
my life so that I would have that energy to draw
from to write songs with. So I hurt some very
good people in order to stay sad and edgy and
depressed so that I could write songs. I mean,
this is, I hate saying this out loud, right?
It's awful. to say this out loud, but it's also
the truth. And one of the greatest things about
getting a bit older and hopefully a bit wiser
is you realize like, hey, I know what pain feels
like. I can remember that. I don't need to be
living in it to write a sad song. Because sometimes
you feel like writing a sad song, you know? But
it's a really good question. I'm not sure that
it ever helped me feel any closure, but I do
know that it felt authentic and real. And every
time I sing it, I'm in a real place inside my
heart. It's not something that I fabricated.
So let me sidestep this for a second and give
another example. There are a lot of bands out
there. who resent their hit song or hit songs.
They maybe felt pressured by the label to do
something in a certain way, or they were sort
of, a song was given to them and they were sort
of forced to sing it. But you know, another person's
song. And so I don't have any of those feelings.
This is something that came from me. This is
something that I was experiencing. So what I
actually feel rather than closure, per se, is
I feel gratitude. Every time I'm singing it,
I feel this sense of joyous gratitude to the
song, to this song that has changed everything
for me and provided for me in ways that I could
never have even imagined back in the day when
we were thinking about giving up. You know, I
think as a songwriter, as a lyricist, you have
to progress. You have a different relationship
with your craft over time. Back in my 20s, it
was almost like I was just clawing at the wall
to try to climb up to a place of peace. And now
I have moments of peace and moments of pain,
but it's a little bit more balanced. And I wouldn't
change that for the world. It's much better.
here in this place than it was in that place.
So I feel gratitude for it. And maybe on some
level then there is a bit of closure from being
that person and feeling those feelings and now
sort of moving on to a slightly better place,
let's call it. Well, obviously that's talking
lyrically about the track, but I also want to
touch on the music because that hypnotic opening
guitar whiff with the swells and all is instantly
recognizable and a signature component of the
song so let's rewind 25 26 27 years ago when
you're writing this song then you have two incredibly
strong components here the lyrical aspect of
this track and then this hypnotic guitar chicken
in the egg question here which came first the
music of the lyrics The music. The music. I call
it the mantra. That thing, I think of it as a
mantra. The mantra came to me in a dream at about
four o 'clock in the morning in my apartment
in Chelsea, in Manhattan. And I heard it in my
head and I thought, well, I'll remember that
in the morning. I should remember that. That
sounds good. Of course, you never remember anything
in the morning. But I did, I rolled over, I went
back to sleep. And about 15 minutes later, I
heard the chords that the acoustic guitar chords
that go underneath the mantra part. And then
I thought to myself, well, that's interesting.
Those two parts would probably go really well
together. And, you know, but I rolled over and
I went back to sleep. And then 20 minutes later,
I heard the whole chorus lyrically in my head.
And that's when I jumped out of bed and... hit
the cassette recorder, got the paper out and
writing as frenetically fast, as fast as I possibly
could. And the other thing too, is when you hear
something in the middle of the night and you
record it, there's a, there's a level of awakeness
that, uh, that you need to be at for it to be
intelligible the next day. So there, I have,
I have, I have many little cassette musings or
whatever that I record in the middle of the night
that just sound like. And it's like, dude, what
are you doing? Like, come on. But I got myself
out of bed and I caught that one. I think of
it also as like these songs come through the
ether and you're either going to sort of catch
them or they're just going to disappear and either
go somewhere else or just never exist. So I view
it more as I'm a receiver of inspiring moments
and thoughts rather than a creator of them. So
I have to ask, do you still have that original
cassette? recording of your everything you want
idea yeah yeah and it's the the original cassette
is you can hear it you can you can understand
it and so that helped me get to the next step
which was the demo that i did which is which
is also on a cassette multi -track and you can
hear the mantra guitar you can hear the drum
pattern the the the you know everything is kind
of pretty mapped out you know it it was you know
it was it was That song was a force of nature,
even in the early days. It's pretty great. I'm
grateful for it. Well, the follow -up to Everything
You Want was the hit single, You're a God. This
reached number 23 on the Billboard US Hot 100.
And again, I'm going to reach into the lyrics
first, if you don't mind. But yeah, I've got
to be honest. We're covered in lies and that's
OK. This song for me is taking back the hold
or the power that. You've given someone over
you, which is a very powerful moment for somebody
when they experience. Luckily, I could say I
have experienced this feeling. So this song has
always resonated with me because of I know the
moment you're singing about in that song. Can
you talk about the message of this song with
25 years of hindsight and how it still resonates
with you as the key songwriter, as well as. fans
of this song? Yeah. You know, it's really interesting
because it's not like Your God performed at radio
as well as Everything You Want did at the time.
It didn't. But it's really interesting now, playing
that song so many years later, people really
have taken that song into their hearts. And I
think there's an element of... I think we've
all done that before, given people the power
to make our decisions for us. And then at some
point, if you're lucky, you become aware of it
and you realize that they don't deserve that
power. So you take it back for yourself. And
it can be just that easy. Like, no, I'm not going
to let you make decisions for me anymore. You're
done. And that was the thing for me. And I just
let you go. But yeah, it's really interesting.
we, it's almost like you kind of expect it from
everything you want because it was sort of this
behemoth of a song, but you're a God, you know,
we, we play, we, we just played last week in,
uh, in North Carolina and, you know, it comes
to the pre -chorus is the never again part and
people sing louder than we do. I mean, you, you
just, you, you gotta stop and let them go, you
know? Um, it's like, Hey, you guys sing, you
guys take over. So it's this beautiful, pure,
song, I think it's an example of trying to learn
how to make, I'll just speak first person for
you, of me learning, trying to learn how to make
myself feel better through songwriting. I was
never particularly good with words in conversation.
I wasn't particularly good at relationships and
the pain or the heartache or the... sort of questioning
feelings, the uncertainty that I would have,
I would try to funnel all that into a song. And
then the song would, you know, Tom Waits had
a funny, funny way of saying it, you know, where
he would write a song and for him, his songs
were little boats that he'd put, you know, little
paper boats or whatever he'd put in a river.
And he'd say, okay, now go fly away and make
daddy some money, which is funny. And I don't
really think about... And for me, it's not like,
go make me some money. But it is like, I feel
like I'm putting the songs, I mean, not to be
disingenuous. It's like, okay, yes, this is my
vocation. This is how I earn a living. So yeah,
you have to earn a living and make money. So
I don't want to sound like I'm not like, you
know, somebody who needs to work for a living.
I absolutely do. But the songs, the songs themselves.
It's like they are these little boats that you
put all your feelings in and then you just let
them go fly away. Go either impact someone else
or more importantly, I've put the pain into a
vessel and now I can let it go. Wow. Well, the
last single from the album that I'd like to bring
up is the hit song, Best I've Ever Had, Gray
Sky Morning. Love can be so boring. Nothing's
quite the same now. I just say your name now.
But it's not so. You don't want me back. You're
just the best I ever had. Released January 8th,
2001, 20 months after We Are was first released
to radio. In the year 2024, that... Distance
in time between singles is absolutely staggering
to even consider a label doing that now. Can
you talk about the impact that RCA did with the
single schedule and maybe what that had on the
album's longevity? I think there are a couple
of things at play. Number one, they were arguably
the best label to be on at the time under Bob
Jameson's leadership. So they had a great team
of people who were very, very good at their jobs.
And if you were lucky enough to sort of have
their focus, which it's just the luck of the
draw. There's only so much bandwidth for any
group of people. And we were fortunate to receive
the focus of their bandwidth for much of the
Everything You Want record cycle. So it's that,
but it's also... I think we have to take some
credit in that they were rooting for us. They
believed in us. They wanted good things for us.
And if you are someone who shows appreciation,
who shows up on time and does the work and says,
please and thank you, like, I think it has to
count for something. And I do believe that they
invested in us. But one of the reasons, all that
time, but one of the reasons that they invested
in us was us and was the group of guys that we
were. And we were working hard. We were present.
We were grateful. And I think just that stat
alone, right, that they were still pushing the
button after after all that time. Right. It just
it just shows a couple, you know, a couple I
think a couple of things. One, they they were
incredibly passionate and and they fought hard
for us. And two, I think maybe maybe, you know,
maybe we were worth fighting for at the time.
And and and that's a beautiful thing. Like how
how. How, you know, again, another miracle, like
the fact that we wound up with them and there
were challenging times after this record, right?
With RCA, they went through enormous changes,
basically 80 % of the workforce got fired. And
so they had a whole bunch of new people come
in. And when we released our next record, Go,
we found out what it felt like to not be the
focus of some, you know, of someone's bandwidth.
And that's fine. But yeah, we... We were still
going for it. And Best I Ever Had, you know,
the amazing thing about Best I Ever Had too is
it had this second life as a single at country
radio. Yes, Gary Allen. Gary Allen recorded it.
And the circumstances were incredibly tragic
in that he lost his wife. Yes. And so it was
even in the moment, it was very bittersweet for
me. But I also knew that the song resonated with
him. And what a privilege for me as a songwriter
to have written something that in that time could
be maybe some positive, something positive in
his world at a time when he desperately probably
needed that. So, again, just the power of a song,
right? I remember writing Best I Ever Had and
thinking... is this a Radiohead song that like
I, you know, is this melody a Radiohead melody?
Like I felt like it was better than I was as
a writer. I felt like the melodies were better
than me. And so I was suspicious of it. And fortunately,
you know, I went through all my CDs waiting with
like chewing my nails, like, oh, here it is here.
Oh yeah, it's a James Taylor song, you dummy.
But no, it's mine. Again, that's the thing, right?
Being receptive to the moment of inspiration.
I heard this beautiful melody. And I don't say
that thinking like I wrote a beautiful melody.
I'm just saying I heard a beautiful melody. It
was beautiful. Let's write a song about it or
around it. Now, you mentioned Radiohead and you're
thinking all this stuff in your head. When you're
writing this song, did it ever occur to you that,
wow, one day this is going to translate to a
top 10 country hit? Yeah, no, of course. Yeah,
of course not. That was a surreal, surreal moment.
And of course, growing up in Worcester, Massachusetts,
country music wasn't something we were exposed
to. So I didn't have any country music in my
upbringing. But I will say, so the song craft
in country is, you know, certain aspects of country
music, the song craft is incredibly... stringent
and well -constructed. And I mean, if you're
starting to feel a little big for your britches,
go to Nashville, sit down with a Nashville writer
and they'll put you in your place because these
people are the best in the game and you can...
I'll never forget I was writing with a country
writer, amazing writer named Chuck Cannon, who
I just love dearly. And we were working on this
song and there was something in songwriting,
lyric writing called a soft rhyme. I'm going
to try to think of like an example. Instead of
saying like face and grace, which are sort of
strong rhymes, I'm not sure what the actual term
is, but like you have these rhymes that there's
a sound in there, but they're not as sort of
like cut and paste perfect. There's a classic
Eminem interview where he talks about you can't
rhyme the word orange. He says, why not porridge?
To me, that's where I kind of feel the soft rhyme
coming in. Perfect. So that's perfect. So it's
absolutely perfect. So in certain circles, porridge
and orange are great. But I remember in my writing
session with Chuck, we had a porridge and orange
moment. And he was like, what are you doing with
that porridge, dude? No, it's not going to happen.
Not on my watch. So if you don't have, if there's
not a word that's like soaring, we're not writing
that line. Yeah. So the craft in Nashville and
with a lot of those writers is really high. So
I, and I will say that I was aspiring to that
level of. aspiring to that level of excellence,
right? I had a strong diet of James Taylor and
David Wilcox and Sean Colvin, Mark Cohn, you
know, these people who maybe were country adjacent,
you know, folk writers. And they share, I think,
a similar passion for a well -built song. And
so, Best I Ever Had. comes from sort of that
side, I think, of my influences. So it's not,
ultimately, maybe not quite as surprising that
it would have found a home at country. So we've
covered the big hits and the radio anthems, but
everything you want is so much more than that.
The next song I want to chat about is Send It
Up. This is a tune that, while it wasn't released
as a single, has been a mainstay in the band's
live sets throughout the years and still remains
a fan favorite. Looking back in hindsight, are
there songs from Everything You Want that maybe
you or the band hoped would have continued to
be singles? Because Send It Up is one of those
ones that comes to mind for me as a fan thinking,
how wasn't this a single? Oh, thank you, man.
I think the truth of the matter is we got way
more than we could have ever dreamt of with We
Are, Everything You Want, You're a God, and Best
I Ever Had. I mean, we never – the train could
have stopped at We Are, right? I mean, really.
And for a lot of people, it does. It's like one
shot and you're out. So, I don't think any of
us were feeling that the thing should have kept
going. We were also, to be fair, we were exhausted.
We were toast at the end of, you know, at the
end of the record cycle. So I think we all like
more than anything needed a rest. We needed a
little lie down. But yes, send it up. Look, I
mean, I was trying at the time and continue to,
I was trying to write and sing things that felt
singable, right? Like, let's have fun here. And
even if it's a sad song, let's have a melody
that we can all join in on. And not in a disingenuous
way or a premeditated way. Like, let's just,
I'd rather write a song that maybe someone else
would want to join me in. That's it. There you
go. If the spirit is, hey, let's join in this
together. Let's have this be some sort of a communal
experience. You can write melodies that are inviting.
to people or you can write melodies that are
very sort of exclusionary like you're not going
to be if you're not a professional musician you're
not going to be able to nail this crazy melody
so just sit back and there's a beauty to that
as well right um but send it up is a perfect
example i think of uh of just something that's
um that's singable and it's also a phrase you
know it's interesting there were many iterations
of that song i knew there was something there
but i The chorus was something I was struggling
to crack the code on. And finally, you know,
I came or got found, send it up. And to me, that
it just meant, let it go. Let this, you know,
you've got all these feelings, all this, as Peter
Gabriel says, you're digging in the dirt, right?
You've got all this stuff and just let it go.
Just let it fly away. And send it up to the sky
and just, you know, maybe you'll feel a little
bit better. So, but it doesn't, you know, music
doesn't come with a sort of decoder ring. And
I think it's for the best, right? Because, you
know, what I maybe intend is not necessarily
what resonates for someone else. And so, I don't
even necessarily think I need to say what...
any of these songs are really about but at the
same time i think enough time has passed that
like it's the that spoilers are not um you know
it's like we're in a spoiler free zone um but
yeah send it up is just a sweet little pop song
well the last song i'd like to bring up from
the album is one that i think is the most criminally
underrated track on the album that being you
say oh thanks man Once again, lyrically, this
song hits me with a line like, here in the light,
it burns you out sometimes. Here in the shell
of a sun, we echo on. Given the anniversary of
the album, the band is out playing live and you're
revisiting some of the songs that maybe haven't
been played on the regular over the last 25 years.
Are there any songs that have been kind of brought
back from the dead, so to speak, that maybe you're
seeing a new resurgence from the audience and
from the band on that you're going, wow, how
did this fall out of the set list just because
of time passing? Well, that's a really good question.
And it's funny you would mention You Say because
we've been opening shows recently with You Say.
And it's a really powerful song to... you know,
begin the show with. I don't really know why
we didn't play it for a long time. But, you know,
it is interesting. You see people sing along
with it. You know, people are glad to hear it
again, you know, relatively speaking here, right?
You know. We're not playing stadiums. It's not
like that, you know, that like hundreds of thousands
of people with bated breath wanting to hear you
say. But yeah, when we play it, it's like, oh
yeah, I like that one. And I also have to say,
I kind of like the urgency of the mid -tempo
opener. There's something really confident for
me about that. We tend to open with We Are or
songs like that, Broken Over You from Echoes
from the Underground. But Usai, I think the tempo
shows a little bit more confidence to kind of
go like, no, we'll get you there. But we're not,
you know, we're not starting there, you know.
But it is a nice song. I particularly love the
drum performance. I think Ed's drum performance
on Usai is amazing. And incidentally, when we
tracked it originally up at Bearsville Studios
with Ben Gross. It was much more of a straight
ahead rock song. Just the drum performance was
very, very straight ahead rock. Almost... Almost
more of like an ACDC kind of just like really
kind of meat and potatoes. And when we were finishing
the record, we realized that we kind of overshot
the mark, I think, a little bit on that song.
And that was one of the songs that Mark Endert's
presence, I think, can be most felt on. He brought
in those keyboard, those beautiful keyboard atmospheres
in the verses and encouraged Ed to completely
reevaluate the way he... Performed the drum track.
So in the verses, the snare drum, the snares
go off the snare and they become much more of
a hollow kind of sound, less traditional backbeat.
And actually I'm there, if I recall correctly,
I'm in the studio in the room with Ed, like lying
down on the floor with my hand on the strainer
of the snare to like when he gets to the part
in the verse. I take the snares off for him.
So all he had to do is just keep playing and
not think about the mechanics of getting the
drum to do what we needed it to do. And that
was a fun moment. But I think his performance
really sets the tone for that song of what makes
it, in my opinion, special now. It's sort of,
it's like... sort of rock adjacent with a little
bit of like peter gabriel thrown in there and
the verses now we've been here celebrating everything
you want 25th anniversary however i think i'd
forever regret interviewing you and not bringing
up a vertical horizon song that helped me personally
through one of the toughest times in my life
and you brought up the album earlier and it's
from 2003's go and the song is forever Take these
roses off of me Let me live, let me be For a
little while Let my eyes see everything and nothing
in their time I do not mind But I can tell you
your face is clear. I will see you. And I know
we've had such an upbeat discussion about all
the songs, and I don't mean to turn this to a
little bit of a downer, but a little over a dozen
years ago, I lost one of my closest friends.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I loved the song when I first
heard it. But in 2011, this song took on a whole
new meaning for me. And sing me songs that echo
in my head and my heart. That's where you are.
I could almost... I'm almost not getting it out,
but I would love to hear the story behind this
track because I'm guessing that I'm not the first
person to tell you how Forever has resonated
with them after losing someone. Yeah. Well, first
of all, I'm really sorry for your loss. And it's
an honor to me that that song would maybe give
you some solace that would help you in some way.
You're right. It's one of those songs I think
that has done a good job for a lot of people.
And I'm really thankful for that because I have
obviously approached it from a place there were
a few. It wasn't one person that I lost when
I was writing. I was actually writing it about
three different people who I was missing, people
who are gone. And it sort of became this one
song. And for me, it's about more than one person.
But I have to mention, The first time I think
that I really realized that maybe that song was
helping people was when we were over in Iraq.
We play as many shows for the servicemen and
women of our armed forces as we possibly can.
When I was growing up, I didn't serve in the
military, but some of my best friends did. always
felt like there was something that I should have
done that I didn't do. And so, we've been given
these opportunities now over time to bring our
music to far -flung places around the world.
And after one of the shows out there in the desert
in one of these forward operating bases, there
was a tank driver came up to me and was saying...
talking to me and he said, when you play forever,
it reminds me of my best friend who was in our
unit and we lost him six months ago or three
months ago or something. It was very, very recent.
And so, just so you know, like that song makes
me feel better. And I realized that like I can
carry him with me as I move forward in my life.
And he had said to, this kills me. As the show
was going on, he asked one of his teammates,
he said, is there something wrong with my face?
Because I feel like something's going on with
my face. Maybe we went through some like toxic
gas or something. Is there a reaction on my skin?
Are you seeing a reaction on my skin? Should
I go to the doctor or something? And his teammate
said, yeah, buddy, you're smiling. Wow. And he
hadn't been smiling in so long that his muscles
in his face felt weird doing so. And right. So,
you know, these songs continue to resonate with
different people for different reasons at different
levels. And when I hear something like what you
said, Brian, and also what this guy said to me,
it's incredibly humbling because... I tend to
write in a very insular way. It's very selfish.
This pursuit is very much like I said earlier,
why am I feeling the way I feel? What is this
thing? Why do I feel like just... this darkness
or this pain or whatever it is. Why do I feel
this joy? Why do I feel elated? Whatever, whatever
the feeling might be. Although over time, it's
probably been more of the dark stuff that I've
sort of dived into. And so forever is one, every
single time we play it live, every time I see
people out front getting emotional and, uh, and.
I couldn't have ever said that that would be
a reaction to this little song that I wrote for
these people that I miss. But that's what happens
with music, right? Again, Tom Waits, they sail
away and they become part of people's stories.
They become part of generations of families'
stories. And I'm terribly sorry. that you went
through that. But I'm also so grateful that you
told me that that song was helpful to you. And
it's a real, real privilege to be in that position.
So thank you very, very much. Well, Matt, it's
been a real privilege to be able to talk Vertical
Horizon music with you today. This summer, the
band is on the road with Toad the Wet Sprocket
and recent My Weekly Mixtape guest, Robin Wilson.
the rest of Jim Blossoms, of course. I have to
say, this is a perfect musical lineup for the
summer. Will the Vertical Horizon sets on this
run be dedicated to everything you want, or are
you going to spread it out across the discography?
Yeah. So we, unfortunately we have a shorter
set on those shows. There's only, you know, with
three bands like that and Toad and Jins are co
-headlining. So we're not going to be able to
play the whole record the way we've been doing
it at some of our headlining shows this year,
but we will try to, you know, bring in a deeper
cut or two. And, you know, we've also been having
fun playing some covers, some songs from other
bands that we, you know, deeply love. And so
that's been fun as well. You know, it's just
to get out there with those guys. They've got
so many great songs. It's going to be a really
fun tour. And I just, I'm not exactly sure what
our set's going to look like. But I do know that
we'll be there and we'll be singing. You're just
going to have to go and find out. Order your
copy now of the 25th anniversary vinyl edition
of Vertical Horizons' Everything You Want. Catch
the band this summer when they're out on the
road with Toad the Wet Sprocket and recent My
Weekly Mixtape guest, Gin Blossoms, for their
summer tour. Matt, this has been such an honor
talking music with you tonight. Thank you so
much for joining me on My Weekly Mixtape. My
pleasure to be here. Thanks for taking the time
to talk to me. And remember, you can find my
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And until next time, enjoy the tunes.