WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.319 Hi, my name is Steve Bowman, and I was lucky 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:06.139 enough to be the drummer on August and Everything 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:09.179 After by Counting Crows. We are going to talk 00:00:09.179 --> 00:00:12.960 about that record and more on my weekly mixtape 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:27.780 with Brian Colburn. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, 00:00:27.820 --> 00:00:30.679 a podcast that takes the classic mixtape approach 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:33.859 to building a modern playlist. I'm your host, 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.159 Brian Colburn. Over the last 100 episodes and 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:39.740 change, I've had the chance to talk to some incredible 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:42.600 musicians that are responsible for some of my 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.979 favorite songs and albums. And tonight is no 00:00:45.979 --> 00:00:48.810 exception to the rule. as I'm truly honored to 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.530 welcome Steve Bowman, the original drummer and 00:00:51.530 --> 00:00:54.009 one of the founding members of the Counting Crows, 00:00:54.009 --> 00:00:57.229 to dive into one of my favorite albums of all 00:00:57.229 --> 00:01:00.229 time, August and Everything After. Steve, welcome 00:01:00.229 --> 00:01:02.729 to the program, my friend. Well, thank you so 00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:05.250 much for having me. Pleasure to be here. Well, 00:01:05.269 --> 00:01:07.409 I always like to start by asking my first -time 00:01:07.409 --> 00:01:11.150 guests, what does the word mixtape mean to you? 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:14.989 Yeah, mixtapes are probably, the original meaning 00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:18.540 is probably forgotten, but... I would say a mixtape 00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:22.700 is the original Spotify playlist, right? Only 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:25.540 it took a lot more effort. You had to create 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:27.739 a bunch, record a bunch of songs and put them 00:01:27.739 --> 00:01:31.640 on a tape. And the beauty of it was the originality 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:35.540 of it. It could be exactly the songs in the order 00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:38.359 you wanted. And that way, that's what I do now 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:41.239 with Spotify. So I don't know. It's definitely 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.420 evolved over the years, for sure. Mixtape seems 00:01:44.420 --> 00:01:48.560 to me to be an 80s term. As a child of the 80s, 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:50.640 I'd say that's a pretty accurate description. 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.560 So I'll go with it. Maybe at least originated 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.879 in the 80s. There you go. Now, before we dive 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.159 into the album, can you talk about how the August 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:03.280 and everything after lineup of the Counting Crows 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.000 came together and maybe something about the writing 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.080 sessions that led us into the album recording? 00:02:09.620 --> 00:02:14.879 Well, sure. Adam and Dave. Bryson had written 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.719 a lot of the songs before I got there. And they 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:22.740 were performing as a duo and decided for a variety 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:24.939 of reasons that they wanted to put a band together. 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:27.699 Well, the reason was that they got some label 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:32.020 interest in a fluke performing as a duo. And 00:02:32.020 --> 00:02:34.759 they gave a guy their demo tape and he sent it 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:36.800 to a friend who called. And so they had this 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:41.400 little spark come up, which faded. But it inspired 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:43.340 them to put a band together at that point. So 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:48.699 I had been doing sessions in Dave's studio. Dave 00:02:48.699 --> 00:02:52.960 Bryson had Dancing Dog Studios, which was a great 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:57.800 16 -track, 2 -inch, and sounded really pro. And 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:01.580 so my band did a record there, and I could work 00:03:01.580 --> 00:03:04.560 with a click track, and not many drummers could. 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:07.960 So Dave kept calling me back in. He said, hey, 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.020 man, we got four songs to do with this band and 00:03:10.020 --> 00:03:12.400 their drummer can't do it. And so can you do 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.840 it? And so Dave and I had a relationship that 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:19.099 way. Matt Malley, who would be the bassist, was 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:23.039 in Dave's old band called Mr. Dog. And so he 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:25.860 was a local guy. And then Charlie Gillingham 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:28.340 was a keyboardist that played. I can't remember 00:03:28.340 --> 00:03:30.759 the name of his band, but like. charlie was kind 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.240 of known for playing a b3 live and like carrying 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.960 it into a club you know and he was cool so so 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:39.960 when they put the band together that was the 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:44.340 original idea was to get us five together and 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:47.460 we got together and and we re uh we rehearsed 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:50.379 well we played we jammed we we played the songs 00:03:50.379 --> 00:03:54.180 that they had recorded on the demo tape and it 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:56.340 just went really well we all liked each other 00:03:56.340 --> 00:03:59.740 and musically was a great fit and so After two 00:03:59.740 --> 00:04:03.060 weeks, we went and recorded some songs. And I 00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:05.120 can't remember all of them, but one of them was 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:08.180 Einstein on the Beach for an Eggman, I guess. 00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:11.520 I can't remember the exact title. And that song 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.699 was on a compilation that did real well. I think 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:17.920 it got a lot of radio spins. But the thing was, 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.800 it was recorded two weeks after we got together 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:24.459 in Dave's studio. And so... It felt like the 00:04:24.459 --> 00:04:27.480 band kind of hit on all cylinders. We'd all played 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.160 in a bunch of bands, and we all liked the same 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.300 styles. And the songs were amazing. The original 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:38.519 demo tape I got from Dave to learn the songs 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.660 and audition kind of originally was, you know, 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:44.579 they were amazing songs. And I would sit there 00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:46.199 listening to them and think, man, I really want 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.879 to do this. I love these songs. And so I think 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:53.639 we all did. And so that was a great start. It 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.560 kind of felt like, you know, we were all doing 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.100 a bunch of different things and it kind of felt 00:04:57.100 --> 00:04:59.920 like, wow, this is something I want to put everything 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.000 and do for a while. So that was The Five of Us 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.639 and that's how it began. Well, I want to touch 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:09.199 on Einstein on the Beach because you had mentioned 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.579 the DGC Rarities Volume 1 compilation. I had 00:05:12.579 --> 00:05:15.759 that CD growing up as well. That's what it was 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.439 on. Was there a reason Einstein was left off 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.279 of August? Even though it was an outtake per 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.620 se, it still ended up hitting number one on the 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:29.639 U .S. alternative airplay chart. And in Australia, 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:33.540 it ranked number 47 on the Triple J Hottest 100 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:38.120 for 1994, which was actually one spot higher 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.800 than Mr. Jones. Wow. I always was surprised that 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:45.600 Eggman wasn't on the actual album. Well, you 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.180 know, it was recorded at a different time. I 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:50.240 mean, obviously it was recorded two weeks in. 00:05:50.649 --> 00:05:53.689 And so I don't think sonically it would have 00:05:53.689 --> 00:05:57.990 matched as well. The other thing is that, well, 00:05:58.029 --> 00:06:00.610 I guess there's a few things. You know, the original 00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:04.949 songs that ended up becoming the demo that kind 00:06:04.949 --> 00:06:07.730 of got the band signed, it was the songs I heard 00:06:07.730 --> 00:06:10.910 and then some more we recorded. And then that 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:14.610 became the demos. There was a label that wanted 00:06:14.610 --> 00:06:16.910 to just release that. They were like, this is 00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:21.459 it, man. Let's do this. Adam, I remember saying, 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:23.879 well, you know, he thought we could probably 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.079 do better because we'd been playing together 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.120 at that point for a year and a half. We'd been 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.420 playing the songs. And of course we did. And 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:34.060 the demo was great, but we were able to take 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:36.040 our time and work with a producer and kind of 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:38.399 a big budget and really get exactly what we wanted 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.439 to hear. So that's what we did. Well, speaking 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.139 of that, the album was produced by T -Bone Burnett. 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:46.540 Can you talk about what he brought to the sessions 00:06:46.540 --> 00:06:49.389 and maybe what you learned from him? Oh, well, 00:06:49.449 --> 00:06:52.209 yeah. I mean, you always learn from producers, 00:06:52.209 --> 00:06:54.810 but T -Bone is amazing, especially with young 00:06:54.810 --> 00:06:57.709 bands. He does a lot of kind of first records 00:06:57.709 --> 00:07:01.509 or second records with bands. And he did so much 00:07:01.509 --> 00:07:05.189 for us. We especially as a drummer, I came in 00:07:05.189 --> 00:07:07.790 with way too many notes, as many young drummers 00:07:07.790 --> 00:07:12.189 do. And he was able to trim that. But the story 00:07:12.189 --> 00:07:14.050 I love telling about T -Bone that affected me 00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:18.029 personally was and kind of exemplifies. why he's 00:07:18.029 --> 00:07:20.389 so great or what's so great about him one of 00:07:20.389 --> 00:07:24.389 the things we were recording Omaha and since 00:07:24.389 --> 00:07:28.329 you know these titles I'll just go right in Omaha 00:07:28.329 --> 00:07:31.069 was a song we'd been playing for a long time 00:07:31.069 --> 00:07:35.649 and I had a drum part and I was set and ready 00:07:35.649 --> 00:07:38.189 to record it we were all getting ready to track 00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:41.829 it and T -Bone says into the microphone hey Steve 00:07:41.829 --> 00:07:43.550 take your cymbals off we're gonna do without 00:07:43.550 --> 00:07:46.240 cymbals I was like what he goes Put your cymbals 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.300 on the floor, and we're going to record it. And 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:50.480 I was like, okay. And then it's like, all right, 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.000 here we go. And I was like, wait a second. I 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.399 mean, I needed my cymbals for what I was going 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:58.139 to play because I had parts with cymbals in them. 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:00.819 And so I went into the kitchen and got a pan, 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.399 and I put the pan on one of the toms, and I thought, 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.000 all right, that'll be the ride. I had this ride 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.319 cymbal part I wanted to play. Anyway, stuff like 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:14.740 that happened. And, well, I grabbed a... Instead 00:08:14.740 --> 00:08:17.060 of drumsticks, I used something that sounded 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:20.579 better without what I was doing. The bottom line 00:08:20.579 --> 00:08:24.800 is T -Bone stopped me from recreating a part 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.120 I'd already known and played well and was proud 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:33.980 of and got me creating a new part with limitations 00:08:33.980 --> 00:08:38.919 I wasn't used to. I had to listen and make music 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:44.799 on the spot. With the sounds I had, it changed 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:48.720 the part. And the part was great. And, you know, 00:08:48.779 --> 00:08:51.000 it wasn't anything I could have created on the 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:53.860 fly unless I'd been under the pressure that he 00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:56.879 just so casually put me under without even realizing 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.200 it. You know, it's like that was an example for 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:04.200 me of a producer who's been around the block 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.759 kind of working with a young drummer and kind 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:10.299 of sneaking a great track out of him, you know? 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.350 Because... That track has sounds and parts that 00:09:15.350 --> 00:09:18.169 I wouldn't have done. Well, the first thing that 00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:20.490 I want to bring up being we're on Omaha, let's 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:25.429 just stay there. The four thunderous thumps that 00:09:25.429 --> 00:09:29.049 lead into the song. I've always wondered, is 00:09:29.049 --> 00:09:32.490 that like a mallet on a floor tom or a kick drum? 00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:36.570 Because that is a big sound. It jumps out at 00:09:36.570 --> 00:09:38.990 you when you listen to that coming out of round 00:09:38.990 --> 00:09:41.830 here. Yeah, I'll tell you exactly what it is. 00:09:41.889 --> 00:09:46.950 It's a 18 -inch bass drum, and I mean, they wanted 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.169 to record, and I wanted it to sound like a TR 00:09:50.169 --> 00:09:54.889 -808. I wanted it to go, right? I wanted to create 00:09:54.889 --> 00:09:59.370 that long decay, and I had that mallet, and it 00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:01.750 was a bass drum, and I wanted to hit it like 00:10:01.750 --> 00:10:04.220 a tom, so I had to... jam something under it. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:06.019 So it was kind of precarious. I had to hit it 00:10:06.019 --> 00:10:09.139 in a way so it didn't fall over. And, and I hit 00:10:09.139 --> 00:10:12.120 it with a mallet and I hit it and it sounded 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:15.240 totally different than I wanted. And I wanted 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.440 it to go. And now it just sounds like this big, 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.059 oh, in hindsight, it's fine. It's great. But 00:10:22.059 --> 00:10:26.379 there again, T -bones dropping the cymbals forced 00:10:26.379 --> 00:10:28.980 me into doing things I wasn't used to. And, and 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:32.399 that's what it ended up being. So. Well, another 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.019 thing that always blew me away, and this probably 00:10:35.019 --> 00:10:37.919 speaks to the album as a whole, but I'm just 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.399 going to use Omaha as an example right now, is 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.759 the separation of the instruments in this recording. 00:10:44.899 --> 00:10:47.960 If you want to focus your ears when you're listening 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:51.019 to this song on the mandolin, the accordion, 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:54.600 the guitar, the vocals, your drums, everything 00:10:54.600 --> 00:11:00.100 has its own specific place in the mix. And there's 00:11:00.100 --> 00:11:03.000 so much separation between the instruments. The 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.220 band truly immerses you in the song. Were there 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:10.019 certain techniques that T -Bone used during the 00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:14.299 recording to make that separation happen? Yes. 00:11:14.539 --> 00:11:19.759 What he taught us was to play parts. When we 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:22.679 got there, we were all kind of playing the same 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:25.919 rhythms and melodies on our instruments, on our 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.649 perspective instruments. And a great example 00:11:28.649 --> 00:11:36.029 was Mr. Jones. We were all going, you know, we 00:11:36.029 --> 00:11:40.509 were all punching that and those ands. And he 00:11:40.509 --> 00:11:43.769 said, why don't you do that? You don't do that. 00:11:43.889 --> 00:11:45.950 And then you do something in the middle. And 00:11:45.950 --> 00:11:48.330 so so then we heard it back. We're like, oh, 00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:50.330 that sounds a lot better. And so then you go 00:11:50.330 --> 00:11:51.789 to record the next song and everybody's like, 00:11:51.909 --> 00:11:54.210 well, hey, guys, we're kind of doing the same 00:11:54.210 --> 00:11:57.559 thing. What if you do this? And so. He taught 00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:01.279 us to play parts instead of everyone playing 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.600 together. We all played different things within 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:08.360 the same rhythm and chord progression and the 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:13.740 same attitude and feel. And it just makes it 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:16.779 a lot more interesting. Another thing that he 00:12:16.779 --> 00:12:20.559 did was everything was recorded with minimal 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:25.500 effects. And so his thought was you'd get a great 00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:28.840 microphone. and you get a great guitar sound. 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:34.840 Done. Rather than just scoop up everything and 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:36.899 say, yeah, we'll get everything dialed in later, 00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:39.740 you're committing early to the sounds you get. 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:45.179 I always feel like a lot of records have certain 00:12:45.179 --> 00:12:50.059 styles or effects that pigeonhole them into the 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:52.379 era they came out. I always mentioned Don Henley. 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.360 I love Don Henley. his solo stuff it's like there's 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:58.299 the snare drum there's the you know it's like 00:12:58.299 --> 00:13:03.100 that's 86 that's 87 you know and by just recording 00:13:03.100 --> 00:13:08.059 a great sound without using the effects of the 00:13:08.059 --> 00:13:11.100 day or the the latest greatest it's a different 00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:15.200 way to do it it's not yes 90120 you know but 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.240 it's good in a different way it definitely gives 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.799 the album a timeless nature which i think is 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.159 what resonates with me so much Well, and I think 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:27.179 about a lot of the records I love now, and they're 00:13:27.179 --> 00:13:29.740 the ones that stick around. And it comes down 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:32.299 to people playing together, just playing simple 00:13:32.299 --> 00:13:34.960 parts, locking into something and making a beautiful 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:40.000 sound, you know? And so I don't necessarily need 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.779 the cool gizmos that I loved so much when they 00:13:43.779 --> 00:13:47.840 came out, in hindsight, you know? Well, you were 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.899 talking about a song earlier, so we might as 00:13:49.899 --> 00:13:52.080 well just move on to that next. And that is Mr. 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:55.899 Jones. This is the one song for the people that 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:58.919 sat and read the liner notes over and over again 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.899 in the 90s that you don't play drums on this 00:14:01.899 --> 00:14:03.899 song. It's actually Denny Fongheiser. Can you 00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:06.779 talk about how that came to be? Well, that was 00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:11.159 completely my fault. I was not very flexible. 00:14:11.779 --> 00:14:14.320 And I look back and kind of think that part of 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:18.940 the. what value of my drumming was maybe the 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.840 cockiness of it but the detriment of it was I 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:27.440 wasn't able to adjust as well to criticism or 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.860 maybe new ideas that maybe I was afraid I couldn't 00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:33.600 pull off and Mr. Jones was that and I'll tell 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.799 you I've thought about and kind of talked about 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.620 it before so I kind of have a an idea of what 00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:42.720 happened now but I was playing Mr. Jones now 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:48.129 I should say, I didn't like the song. And I didn't 00:14:48.129 --> 00:14:50.629 like it from the get -go. And for me, it was 00:14:50.629 --> 00:14:53.690 the tempo and the chord progression. I always 00:14:53.690 --> 00:14:56.250 felt it sounded just kind of silly corny. I didn't 00:14:56.250 --> 00:14:59.730 get it. Now, that's a weakness of mine. But obviously, 00:14:59.830 --> 00:15:02.669 the song is great. People loved it, right? But 00:15:02.669 --> 00:15:05.389 that was how I felt about the song. I was even 00:15:05.389 --> 00:15:08.509 stupid enough to tell Adam once. I said, man, 00:15:08.649 --> 00:15:11.419 because I love the other songs so much. And I 00:15:11.419 --> 00:15:13.960 once told Adam, I was like, man, I love these 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.940 songs so much. And then I hear Mr. Jones. I just 00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:19.460 can't figure out how that fits in this situation. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.139 And he's very offended, as he probably should 00:15:23.139 --> 00:15:27.100 have been. But yeah, I never got it. So when 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:31.179 we went to record Mr. Jones, I played it with 00:15:31.179 --> 00:15:33.360 a quarter note feel. I don't know if that makes 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.600 sense to anybody. But I was just basically smashing 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:43.120 my hands down and going. I didn't care. I wanted 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.000 to get it over with so we could record another 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.340 song. Live, I always thought, yeah, all right, 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.220 well, let's get this done, and then we can play 00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:56.340 the one I love. But it wasn't working. It wasn't 00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:59.080 grooving. It didn't fit the feel, and I didn't 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:03.600 understand how to change it. And a weakness of 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.519 mine was that I always tried to be a cocky music 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:10.440 school drummer. How could I not do it? Well, 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.779 the trick was Denny Fongheiser, who's a veteran, 00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.440 he's done all kinds of hit songs. He came in 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.860 and he played it with an eighth note feel. And 00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:26.220 what that did was change the groove in the way 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:30.039 it needed. And so he went, you know, he just 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:31.620 put more eighth note. I was playing it with a 00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:34.779 chord note. The feel changed and everything was 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:38.639 perfect. It was what they were. You know, in 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:43.700 hindsight, well, in my defense, Adam had a tough 00:16:43.700 --> 00:16:48.019 time explaining that. He didn't say, well, play 00:16:48.019 --> 00:16:49.799 with an 8 -note field. Maybe, I don't think he 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:53.200 did, because that didn't occur to me for some 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.879 reason. But that was the simple trick. And so 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.440 what happened was that they asked me to re -record 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.220 it. And I just said, man, I don't know what I'd 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:05.259 do differently, you know. And that was where 00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:07.440 I should have just... been gutsy enough to try 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.160 something. And it probably would have ended up 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.359 being an eighth note field. But Denny was coming 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.240 in to do percussion on the record. Again, I considered 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.299 myself a drummer more than a percussionist. In 00:17:20.299 --> 00:17:21.759 hindsight, I probably should have got into that 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.480 more. But that's all right, because Denny is 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.180 an amazing percussionist. And so he was coming 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.299 in to do percussion, and we decided, hey, man, 00:17:29.380 --> 00:17:31.980 let's have him give a pass on Mr. Jones. Well, 00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:34.880 of course. Whatever he does is going to be perfect. 00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.559 And that's what happened. So anyway. Well, being 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:40.740 that ended up being the debut single from the 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:42.819 album, I feel like I should follow up by asking 00:17:42.819 --> 00:17:46.079 how much was the label involved in choosing the 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.420 singles for this album? Because like you said 00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:51.059 before, it wasn't your most favorite song, at 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:54.400 least upon first listen. And as time has shown, 00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:58.640 a lot of these album cuts have just as strong 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.039 of an impact amongst Counting Crows fans. as 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.720 do the four singles. Yeah. Well, you know, I 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:11.019 have to admit, I wasn't in on that, and I didn't 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:15.440 have any say in that. But I know that Adam, Gary 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.599 Gersh was the executive producer, our management 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.299 company, maybe T -Bone. The idea, of course, 00:18:22.339 --> 00:18:25.519 when you're releasing an album, is to kind of 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:27.880 introduce it in a certain way, see what happens. 00:18:28.430 --> 00:18:30.190 And then depending on what happens in it, you 00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:34.529 know, the idea was to go Mr. Jones round here. 00:18:34.950 --> 00:18:38.950 And then that's when Einstein on the beach hit 00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:43.069 big. And I remember that that was not part of 00:18:43.069 --> 00:18:47.789 the game plan. And so that was the last single 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:51.369 that was allowed from August and everything after. 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.059 As I remember. Maybe they did Rain King. I can't 00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:55.960 remember. I thought Rain King and A Murder of 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.619 One were also released as singles, but I don't 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:01.819 think there were videos made for those. Yeah. 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.460 Einstein altered the trajectory in some way that 00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:08.019 caused the releases to maybe change. And maybe 00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:10.819 I'm wrong. Well, as someone who played on the 00:19:10.819 --> 00:19:13.299 album, then I guess I have to follow up by asking, 00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:16.200 are there any songs on this album that you feel 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.160 maybe should have gotten a push as a single that 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:21.880 you felt might have been stronger than the four 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:26.039 that were released? Well, I mean, obviously it 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:30.640 went just fine, but I always felt that Sullivan 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.740 Street would be a great, like from a business 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:38.940 standpoint, from like music history. A lot of 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:42.319 bands, you can get a song, a second song, maybe 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.380 a third song, and then you hit them with a ballad, 00:19:45.380 --> 00:19:48.359 right? I mean, business -wise, that's always 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.940 how it's gone. Open Arms comes out, you know, 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:55.599 Journey Escape, or Girl Like You, whatever that 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.339 foreign, you know, like this historic ballad. 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.420 Anyway, I thought Sullivan Street would have 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.119 been great for that. Well, you picked my favorite 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.279 song on the album, so I'm glad to hear that. 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:09.000 That's been a song that I did an episode with 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.559 another podcaster, Ben Montgomery from Records 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.299 Revisited, and it was on spellbinding songs. 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:17.160 And this is one that I chose as a song that always 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:19.980 left me spellbound. And I think that's probably 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:23.480 because of the way Maria McKee's voice blends 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.519 with Adam's in the chorus. There's this beautifully 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.500 haunting vibe going on in this song. I mean, 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:32.339 what else can I say? It leaves me speechless 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:36.779 every time I hear it. Well, I have to say I agree. 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.880 It's the songwriting. I wouldn't say thank you 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:42.960 because what I get is the same thing you get. 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:46.299 And it's that songwriting. The song is so good. 00:20:47.180 --> 00:20:50.900 Adam is an amazing songwriter. And for me, you 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:53.700 know, everybody has their different tastes. But 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:57.220 man, that type of tension and release, that type 00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:02.849 of beauty, passion. It's melancholy. I mean, 00:21:02.849 --> 00:21:06.170 that's all I want in a song. So yeah, I always 00:21:06.170 --> 00:21:09.049 loved that one. Well, I know I talked about the 00:21:09.049 --> 00:21:11.329 singles being released, but I want to talk about 00:21:11.329 --> 00:21:14.529 the way this album is sequenced as a front -to 00:21:14.529 --> 00:21:17.670 -back listen. Because to me, one of the album's 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:22.000 strongest points is... The song sequencing. I 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.119 honestly don't think there is any other order 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.200 of songs that you can move around that would 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.019 make this album feel better than the way they 00:21:31.019 --> 00:21:34.359 were sequenced. Was that T -Bone, the label, 00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:36.640 Adam? Did they know that round here was like 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.920 the album opener? Like, how did that all come 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.380 together? Well, I think, and again, above my 00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:48.019 pay grade, the sequencing of the album, but I 00:21:48.019 --> 00:21:51.359 know that. Round here is an obvious opener and 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.240 Murder of One is an obvious closer. That's what 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:58.240 we did live. So it made sense that that was how 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.059 the record went. And then everything else is, 00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:04.220 you know, the magic of someone else's hand. Although 00:22:04.220 --> 00:22:07.559 I will say that people always say, kind of point 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.119 out that, man, that's a record you can listen 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.980 to the whole way through. And so I think that's 00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:18.279 good sequencing. Well, you talked about Round 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.380 Here being the album opener. I do want to bring 00:22:20.380 --> 00:22:22.799 that one up because that song was originally 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.880 recorded by Adam's first band, the Himalayans. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.440 And if you AB those two songs back to back, the 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.240 Himalayans version and the version on August 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.180 and Everything After, they're two different songs. 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.680 And I would love to know how the band got together 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.799 and kind of reimagined it for the Counting Crows 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.480 version. Yeah, it happened. One day at a rehearsal, 00:22:47.779 --> 00:22:51.259 we were playing the Himalayans version and it 00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:56.759 wasn't great and wasn't working. And so we just 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:01.319 stopped it and kind of in a frustrated way, we 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:05.700 just let it go. And Charlie got it back going. 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.980 He said, hey, what if we just tried it and do 00:23:09.980 --> 00:23:12.180 the opposite of what you think you should do? 00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:15.990 And just, you know, and so. as a drummer it would 00:23:15.990 --> 00:23:18.890 have probably been me trying to emulate stuart 00:23:18.890 --> 00:23:22.329 copeland or manu cachet by having that bass drum 00:23:22.329 --> 00:23:24.569 on the two and four you know and then everybody 00:23:24.569 --> 00:23:28.829 else did what they did but it created a vibe 00:23:28.829 --> 00:23:33.049 that everybody sunk into and so i think what 00:23:33.049 --> 00:23:36.630 changed was just you know the approach was a 00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:39.869 change in the vibe and and a real like complete 00:23:39.869 --> 00:23:42.480 change in the vibe it's kind of like reinvent 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.279 it you know but since everybody already knew 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.240 the chord progression everybody knew that we 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.319 could just kind of sail through it in that way 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.019 and it i think the first time we played it was 00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:54.319 that way and it was just like oh man that's great 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:58.279 well great in that it saved it for us because 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.960 uh we weren't doing it well the other way so 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:05.000 well i want to bring up something on this version 00:24:05.769 --> 00:24:07.950 that always impressed me. And it's something 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.009 that I think you do throughout the entire album 00:24:11.009 --> 00:24:14.109 on the drums. And that is, I'm going to use the 00:24:14.109 --> 00:24:18.930 round here. We stay up very late crescendo. Normally 00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:22.670 you would picture a drummer doing a massive fast 00:24:22.670 --> 00:24:26.269 fill over that part, but you dialed it back where 00:24:26.269 --> 00:24:29.990 it was just a couple of nuanced snare hits. And 00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:33.769 it actually made the song more impactful and 00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:37.319 powerful. than had you played something bigger 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.400 in that moment. And I've always wondered, was 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.039 that your thought process in this? Was that part 00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:45.180 of what you were talking about earlier with what 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:47.559 T -Bone was telling you to do in these songs? 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.099 Well, in that case, it really would have been 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:56.279 me just being so into the song that I forgot 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.440 to be noodley. You know, that's how good those 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.099 songs were for me. And I always tell, if I work 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:04.869 with young drummers, I tell them, if you can 00:25:04.869 --> 00:25:08.170 do what you think the singer would do if the 00:25:08.170 --> 00:25:10.990 singer were playing drums you'll be fine you 00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:14.609 know and in that case i think i was so probably 00:25:14.609 --> 00:25:17.210 so there were a few times when i would be so 00:25:17.210 --> 00:25:22.950 dialed into adam's lyric and vocal uh rhythm 00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:26.490 and whatever that that i would be kind of playing 00:25:26.490 --> 00:25:30.410 it you know or i would be it you know um kind 00:25:30.410 --> 00:25:34.640 of fall into the spell of the song and then forget 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.779 your drumming and more just reacting to the emotions 00:25:37.779 --> 00:25:42.559 and feelings that the music inspires. That's 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.099 what I think great musicians do. I don't do that 00:25:45.099 --> 00:25:48.539 much, but great songs like that allowed me to 00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:52.299 forget I was a drummer playing drums. Well, you 00:25:52.299 --> 00:25:54.960 brought up Stuart Copeland, so I have to go to 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.539 this question next, because when I was growing 00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:01.319 up, I always felt like this song had just a hint 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:04.829 of Stuart Copeland influence in what you were 00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:07.990 doing. And I mean that in the most positive way 00:26:07.990 --> 00:26:10.809 possible. And that is what you do in Anna Begins 00:26:10.809 --> 00:26:13.869 because that beats one of my favorites on the 00:26:13.869 --> 00:26:17.490 record. It's as I like to call it, subtly complex. 00:26:18.049 --> 00:26:20.769 And when you listen through a good set of headphones, 00:26:21.069 --> 00:26:24.309 I get lost in all the nuances that you're doing. 00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:27.930 And it's so intricate. It really takes this track 00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:31.740 to new heights. So if you wouldn't mind. I have 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:34.799 a terrible pun here and I apologize, but I don't. 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.380 Could you break down that groove that you're 00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:42.200 playing in Anna Begins? Yeah, that was, well, 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:46.960 again, that song, I just love that song so much. 00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:50.980 And especially when it gets big at the end and 00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:53.700 there's things coming in and going out and building 00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:58.019 and a new plateau above a new, you know, all 00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:02.500 these. It gets so big in the end that as a drummer, 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.900 once again, you're really just dancing on that 00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:09.619 and not thinking about what you're playing. It 00:27:09.619 --> 00:27:13.900 creates a random style to the patterns of the 00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:17.900 symbols maybe because instead of thinking left, 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:19.180 right, left, right, left, left, right, right, 00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:24.160 you're just dancing, swinging your arms, just 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.559 like throwing your head back. That's what it 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.400 became. I don't know if that answers the question. 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.220 To be technical, I would say that that was me 00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:37.180 trying to sneak my music school stuff into a 00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:41.299 song, and it worked because of the song, the 00:27:41.299 --> 00:27:44.720 way it is. And that song had been recorded before 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.599 with another drummer named Toby Hawkins, a friend 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.500 of ours in Berkeley, and he did... Kind of a 00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:53.599 paradiddle thing, if you know what that is. You 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.779 probably don't, sorry. No, I know. I'm a musician 00:27:56.779 --> 00:27:59.859 as well, so I do know that one. So yeah, I kind 00:27:59.859 --> 00:28:02.759 of built off that and then tried to forget I 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.319 was playing it and just do it. Well, earlier 00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:08.660 in the night, you had mentioned that Adam wrote 00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:10.460 a lot of these songs and brought them to the 00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:13.680 band. However, you have a writer's credit on 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.619 Time and Time Again. So can you talk about your 00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:19.759 role in how that song came together? Well, that 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:22.799 was a funny one because we were meeting with 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:27.779 different producers and we met with Don Dixon 00:28:27.779 --> 00:28:32.059 and we went out and went out to breakfast with 00:28:32.059 --> 00:28:34.099 him and hung out. And then we went back to the 00:28:34.099 --> 00:28:38.319 studio and not everybody was back from breakfast. 00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:43.839 And Matt Malley and I were ready to go. And something. 00:28:44.329 --> 00:28:46.470 I think Charlie was playing somebody, but Don 00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:48.930 Dixon, I think was playing something. And we 00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:52.269 just started doing that. Boom, boom, you know, 00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:54.809 just kind of doing that as people showed up. 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:58.730 And so everybody showed up and we started working 00:28:58.730 --> 00:29:02.069 on it and it became time and time again. So I 00:29:02.069 --> 00:29:04.750 think that's why I got writing credit. Awesome. 00:29:05.230 --> 00:29:08.170 Well, one of the songs that I want to bring up 00:29:08.170 --> 00:29:11.930 next is one that over the years, the band has 00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:15.230 reinvented live. And it's different than the 00:29:15.230 --> 00:29:18.190 album version. And that's Rain King as the version 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:22.109 that is on Across a Wire, as well as the Amsterdam 00:29:22.109 --> 00:29:25.750 Live album is a stripped down, slow acoustic 00:29:25.750 --> 00:29:28.549 version. And then you've got the album version 00:29:28.549 --> 00:29:31.930 that's really upbeat and energetic. As far as 00:29:31.930 --> 00:29:34.269 I'm concerned, it's two different experiences, 00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:39.089 same lyrics, same notes, but they draw from different 00:29:39.089 --> 00:29:42.990 emotions. Was there a preferred version? Obviously. 00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:46.220 I understand that the fast version made the album, 00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:49.140 but given the amount of times the slow version's 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:51.619 been played live, I have to assume there's an 00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:55.519 affinity for that version as well. Well, in my 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:58.240 experience, there was only the fast version, 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:04.000 and then slowly live, I mean, you get to a venue, 00:30:04.059 --> 00:30:06.400 maybe it's a perfect moment, and that happens. 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.660 at that point we didn't i don't i don't think 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:11.880 we considered it like should we do the slow version 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.119 or the fast version which is like uh it was always 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.400 fast and then every once in a while slow which 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.359 was a neat change you know but it's a great song 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.880 and of course it goes either way i mean a lot 00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:27.819 of great songs can uh morph into different feelings 00:30:27.819 --> 00:30:32.509 if you change the tempo or the uh you know Were 00:30:32.509 --> 00:30:34.769 there any other songs on the album that you did 00:30:34.769 --> 00:30:37.089 that with, or was it basically relegated to a 00:30:37.089 --> 00:30:41.730 ranking? Well, I can't remember now. I'm trying, 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:44.430 I mean, trying to think if there were, there 00:30:44.430 --> 00:30:46.910 were no slow songs that we sped up. So it must. 00:30:47.230 --> 00:30:50.750 I can't picture the rocket version of Sullivan 00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:54.589 street. I don't know. Yeah. I can't remember. 00:30:54.970 --> 00:30:57.970 There were cover songs maybe that we played with 00:30:57.970 --> 00:31:01.259 different feels. Well, then I'm a huge cover 00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.640 song nerd, so I have to ask, which were your 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.920 favorite cover songs to play in the band? Well, 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.759 early on, we started doing Six Different Ways 00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:15.359 of The Cure, Head on the Door. I loved that song, 00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:19.660 and I thought it was a really cool version. With 00:31:19.660 --> 00:31:21.819 the instrumentation we added, it always kind 00:31:21.819 --> 00:31:24.980 of lent itself in a certain way, and I loved 00:31:24.980 --> 00:31:30.059 the way that sounded. We did Caravan early on, 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:33.240 which was fun. And I'm trying to think. I don't 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.480 know. They would come and go, you know? Well, 00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:39.640 I have to just ask, was there ever a studio version 00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:43.240 of the slowed down version of Rain King ever 00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.759 recorded? Not that I know of. Well, not with 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:51.299 me. We might have done a TV show and slowed it 00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:55.460 down or something, but not an album. Not that 00:31:55.460 --> 00:31:59.750 I was a part of. Okay. Well, there's also the 00:31:59.750 --> 00:32:03.490 album's title track, which didn't appear on August 00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:07.069 and everything after. But in 2019, the band did 00:32:07.069 --> 00:32:09.490 record a new version of it with a symphony orchestra. 00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:12.710 And at the time, Adam had said to Rolling Stone, 00:32:12.789 --> 00:32:15.450 I'm just going to read this quote here. The original 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:18.349 was just me on the piano, which was probably 00:32:18.349 --> 00:32:21.549 a bad arrangement for it. There were holes in 00:32:21.549 --> 00:32:24.309 the lyrics and that really weighed it down. The 00:32:24.309 --> 00:32:27.309 whole thing was just lumbering. We had to toss 00:32:27.309 --> 00:32:30.250 it. Can you talk about your experience with that 00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:32.789 song? Was that basically cut and drive what happened? 00:32:32.890 --> 00:32:35.210 Or did you guys really put a lot of effort into 00:32:35.210 --> 00:32:37.849 it? Because that's the name of the album. Yeah. 00:32:38.369 --> 00:32:41.589 My experience was that it wasn't something that 00:32:41.589 --> 00:32:45.769 we were working on as a band. And so it wasn't 00:32:45.769 --> 00:32:48.049 something that I was thinking about a lot. We 00:32:48.049 --> 00:32:50.700 had a lot of songs we were working on. And so, 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:55.559 yeah, I always assumed it was a piano song, Adam 00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.819 piano song. And yeah, we didn't work on it. I 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:02.680 don't think it was, if it wasn't lyrically ready, 00:33:02.779 --> 00:33:07.099 there was other stuff that was. And there was 00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:10.380 a song called Love and Addiction that I just 00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:14.900 loved. And Adam wasn't sold on the lyrics of 00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:17.259 something lyrically about it. And so it didn't 00:33:17.259 --> 00:33:20.680 make the record. We recorded. 22 songs for August 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:24.200 and everything after. And so a lot of them had 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:26.839 to go, but that was one that was cut. And it 00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.579 was a lyric thing. I'm just a dumb drummer. Ultimately, 00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:32.559 I love lyrics, but I don't write them. And so 00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.680 I have to just respect that. Well, I'm glad that 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.140 Love and Addiction made the 2007 deluxe edition 00:33:38.140 --> 00:33:40.460 of the album because that is a great song. So 00:33:40.460 --> 00:33:43.059 I'm glad that that finally saw the light. Now, 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.839 this next question might be a little off the 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.079 beaten path, but please hear me out. In 1994, 00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:52.700 in June, to be exact, you and the rest of the 00:33:52.700 --> 00:33:55.160 Counting Crows were on the cover of Rolling Stone 00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:59.140 magazine. So was it everything that Dr. Hook 00:33:59.140 --> 00:34:01.519 said being on the cover of the Rolling Stone 00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:05.480 would be? Yeah. Well, we were in Europe when 00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.059 that came out and then we came home. And so the 00:34:09.059 --> 00:34:11.860 first time I saw it was at the airport. And I 00:34:11.860 --> 00:34:13.480 mean, I'm sure they had it in Europe. We didn't 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.719 see it there, but it was exciting, you know, 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.329 and. maybe more importantly they gave us a great 00:34:20.329 --> 00:34:24.210 review and so it really you know that that had 00:34:24.210 --> 00:34:27.610 a lot of weight back then and uh helped push 00:34:27.610 --> 00:34:30.309 things along but yeah it was amazing i mean uh 00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.250 i was gonna say between that and the letterman 00:34:33.250 --> 00:34:35.829 performance i feel like those were two big moments 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.909 for the band that really kept bringing up a level 00:34:38.909 --> 00:34:41.929 up a level because that version around here just 00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:44.690 it sticks out in my brain every time I think 00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:47.550 of that performance that had kind of a mix of 00:34:47.550 --> 00:34:49.550 the energy of the Himalayans version and the 00:34:49.550 --> 00:34:51.670 album version. Cause you guys looked like you 00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:54.469 were so frigging stoked to be there. That was 00:34:54.469 --> 00:34:56.610 a lot of adrenaline coming out in that performance. 00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:00.769 Yeah, that was a, I'm really grateful that that 00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:03.789 happened the way it did because you know, that 00:35:03.789 --> 00:35:06.760 was the episode that Madonna was on. I don't 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:08.719 know if you remember that she was on and she 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:10.900 swore a bunch of times and it was really weird. 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.860 Like they couldn't get her off. And so we didn't 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:16.239 think we were going to be on the show. We thought 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:17.659 she was going to stay on. We're going to get 00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:20.559 bumped. And TV is so funny because, you know, 00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:23.500 we'd been playing a lot and we were, we felt 00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.480 pretty tight as a band and we were used to playing 00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.679 shows. And now TV, you sit around and you do 00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:33.699 one song and you're off. And so I remember that 00:35:33.699 --> 00:35:37.070 night. sitting back there thinking uh guys i 00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:39.489 don't know if madonna's gonna get off i don't 00:35:39.489 --> 00:35:41.389 think we're gonna you know there was a guy in 00:35:41.389 --> 00:35:44.449 the room the fastest grocery bagger in america 00:35:44.449 --> 00:35:46.389 it was and he'd been bumped the night before 00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:49.690 and he would be from that night too but uh he 00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:51.869 was sitting there in the backstage with us and 00:35:51.869 --> 00:35:57.010 so then it's on and you go on and you got five 00:35:57.010 --> 00:36:00.440 minutes at it and so That performance was kind 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.940 of like I always felt like it was like us putting 00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:06.079 a whole show into five minutes, you know, because 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.239 we're so psyched to be there. And that's it. 00:36:09.420 --> 00:36:12.219 You know, you you got one shot on TV and then 00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:14.880 it's so bizarre. I think you record at five thirty 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:18.519 in the afternoon. And so you do one song and 00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:20.579 then you get off stage and you're like, now you 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:22.760 want to play and it's you go out and eat dinner. 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:26.800 And so bizarre. But yeah, that was a really great 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:30.039 boost for the band. Well, I have talked about 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.940 August and Everything After so many times on 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:36.739 this show, and I've talked about it being a timeless 00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:39.119 album. We talked about it earlier in this episode. 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.079 Why would you say that so many people feel this 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.840 way about this album? Well, one of the things 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:49.460 I like to say is you have all your life to write 00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:52.769 the first record. The second record you have 00:36:52.769 --> 00:36:56.309 to write in hotel rooms living on subway sandwiches. 00:36:56.570 --> 00:36:59.670 And it's just, it's tough to do. So I always 00:36:59.670 --> 00:37:03.210 say how lucky I feel to have been on the first 00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:06.809 record. I mean, Dave and Adam came up with a 00:37:06.809 --> 00:37:10.969 great batch of songs and then surrounded themselves 00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:13.710 with people that got it and tried to further 00:37:13.710 --> 00:37:16.429 it. And we came up with more stuff. And they, 00:37:16.550 --> 00:37:18.849 you know, I guess I don't know why that would 00:37:18.849 --> 00:37:21.840 make it timeless, except that it's... honest 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:27.340 and authentic. I think the performances serve 00:37:27.340 --> 00:37:33.699 the songs because they were that good. I feel 00:37:33.699 --> 00:37:35.780 like I'm bragging all night, but I'm just trying 00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:39.360 to - Not at all. I would say the exact same thing. 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.079 Don't worry about it. Yeah. I'm proud of that 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.289 record. I was lucky to have been there. Because 00:37:47.289 --> 00:37:50.530 as I say, it would have done fine with any drummer, 00:37:50.630 --> 00:37:55.230 you know, it was ready to go. Well, I will ask, 00:37:55.250 --> 00:37:58.070 I know you left the band after this album was 00:37:58.070 --> 00:38:00.789 released. Have you kept in touch with the group 00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:03.530 since then? Are things copacetic, you know, over 00:38:03.530 --> 00:38:06.329 the years? Has kind of time healed all those 00:38:06.329 --> 00:38:09.269 wounds? Because let's be honest, being in a band 00:38:09.269 --> 00:38:12.110 is the closest thing to a marriage that's actually 00:38:12.110 --> 00:38:17.320 not a marriage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't keep 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:20.880 in great contact, but I love those guys. And 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:24.360 I hope that, you know, I hope they think fondly 00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:27.500 of me. It was a long time ago. And honestly, 00:38:27.699 --> 00:38:32.960 I needed to mature some. I was young and cocky 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:37.059 and wild. And it was great in some aspects. But 00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:41.539 in hindsight, I would have fired me too. And 00:38:41.539 --> 00:38:45.909 I was upset about it for a couple. years and 00:38:45.909 --> 00:38:49.190 and finally uh started looking at how what i 00:38:49.190 --> 00:38:51.949 added to things and how i could try to you know 00:38:51.949 --> 00:38:55.110 in hindsight it was exactly what needed to happen 00:38:55.110 --> 00:38:59.309 and how lucky am i all these years later i mean 00:38:59.309 --> 00:39:01.449 it's still doing well here we are talking about 00:39:01.449 --> 00:39:05.469 it and and it puts some wind in my financial 00:39:05.469 --> 00:39:09.389 sails every year and uh you know i'm i'm thrilled 00:39:10.250 --> 00:39:12.210 Well, before we wrap things up for the night, 00:39:12.289 --> 00:39:14.230 Steve, can you talk a little bit about Murfreesboro 00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:16.230 Music Lab and how people can learn more about 00:39:16.230 --> 00:39:21.809 it? Yes. You know, I moved to Nashville in 2006 00:39:21.809 --> 00:39:26.750 and love it here. It's Music City and it's been 00:39:26.750 --> 00:39:30.929 a wonderful place. Raised a family here. In 2020, 00:39:31.130 --> 00:39:34.869 I moved to Murfreesboro, Tennessee, which is 00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:38.710 a small town about 35 miles south. of nashville 00:39:38.710 --> 00:39:42.469 and i love being in a small town in a little 00:39:42.469 --> 00:39:46.030 community and i ride my bike around and it's 00:39:46.030 --> 00:39:49.469 just wonderful but i need to do something and 00:39:49.469 --> 00:39:52.949 so i started murphy's borough music lab out of 00:39:52.949 --> 00:39:56.809 my house here and i work with aspiring i work 00:39:56.809 --> 00:39:59.750 with drummers a lot but i also work with aspiring 00:39:59.750 --> 00:40:04.329 musicians singer songwriters and i just try to 00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:06.579 Take folks through and see if I can save them 00:40:06.579 --> 00:40:09.739 any time, effort, or headache from their careers, 00:40:09.860 --> 00:40:13.679 you know. Mumulab .org is the website. It's M 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.300 -U -M -U -L -A -B .org. And then the other thing 00:40:17.300 --> 00:40:20.519 I always like to talk about is I did a 10 -part 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:24.219 podcast called Letters to an Aspiring Musician. 00:40:24.219 --> 00:40:27.820 And it was just me trying to think of everything 00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:32.039 after a 30 -year career. What do... I wish I'd 00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.559 known when I was 20. And so I tried to pass that 00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:39.440 info on in 10 different episodes. And so Letters 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.739 to an Aspiring Musician is available at a podcast 00:40:42.739 --> 00:40:46.400 near you. And I'll be sure to embed that podcast 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.239 on the episode page at myweeklymixtape .com so 00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:53.019 people could check that out. Well, Steve, this 00:40:53.019 --> 00:40:55.980 has been such a pleasure talking music with you 00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:59.039 tonight. Thank you for your contributions to 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.940 one of my favorite albums of all time. And more 00:41:01.940 --> 00:41:03.940 importantly, I'd like to thank you for your time 00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:07.139 today to join me to wax poetic about this incredible 00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:10.440 album. Wow. It was a real pleasure. And I appreciate 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.320 you being such a fan that, you know, songs and 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.539 questions. I mean, that's very flattering for 00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:19.530 me and I'm grateful. Thanks for calling. And 00:41:19.530 --> 00:41:21.510 for those listening, remember, you can find my 00:41:21.510 --> 00:41:23.849 weekly mixtape on almost all the social media 00:41:23.849 --> 00:41:27.090 haunts at my weekly mixtape. You can also head 00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:29.349 to my weekly mixtape dot com to check out the 00:41:29.349 --> 00:41:32.630 full catalog of my weekly mixtape episodes. And 00:41:32.630 --> 00:41:34.309 finally, if you like what you're hearing on the 00:41:34.309 --> 00:41:36.489 show, you can help me out by either telling a 00:41:36.489 --> 00:41:39.010 friend, leaving the show a five star review wherever 00:41:39.010 --> 00:41:42.590 you're tuning in. or becoming a Patreon mixtaper 00:41:42.590 --> 00:41:46.570 at patreon .com forward slash myweeklymixtape. 00:41:46.630 --> 00:41:48.989 There you can enjoy ad -free episodes of the 00:41:48.989 --> 00:41:52.010 show, chime in on upcoming topics, become a future 00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:54.929 guest, and so much more. That's all for this 00:41:54.929 --> 00:41:56.969 week. Thanks again for listening. And until next 00:41:56.969 --> 00:41:58.690 time, enjoy the tunes.