WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 Hey, this is Jim Laughlin from Moe. I'm back 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:05.120 on My Weekly Mixtape with Brian Coburn, and we're 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.419 talking about Moe's 35th anniversary and the 00:00:08.419 --> 00:00:10.439 release of our new record, Circle of Giants. 00:00:22.179 --> 00:00:25.120 Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.149 takes the classic mixtape approach to building 00:00:28.149 --> 00:00:30.649 a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn. 00:00:30.789 --> 00:00:33.229 Tonight, I'm excited to welcome back Jim Laughlin 00:00:33.229 --> 00:00:35.450 of Moe to the show. Jim, thanks for joining me 00:00:35.450 --> 00:00:37.869 once again. Oh, absolutely. Thanks for having 00:00:37.869 --> 00:00:40.869 me, man. Well, tonight, our focus is an album 00:00:40.869 --> 00:00:44.890 dive into Moe's 14th studio album, Circle of 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:47.549 Giants, which drops this week. But along with 00:00:47.549 --> 00:00:51.350 the new album, 2025 is a monumental year for 00:00:51.350 --> 00:00:55.450 the band, as it also marks Moe's 35th anniversary. 00:00:56.590 --> 00:00:59.789 So let's start by diving into what you consider 00:00:59.789 --> 00:01:03.429 to be some of the key factors to Moe's longevity 00:01:03.429 --> 00:01:07.109 over the years. First of all, we have an amazing 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:10.310 fan base. Our fans have supported us through, 00:01:10.430 --> 00:01:13.230 well, thick and thin, you know, everything that's 00:01:13.230 --> 00:01:16.689 happened to us over the years. They've been incredibly 00:01:16.689 --> 00:01:19.909 supportive and they show up, they come out, they 00:01:19.909 --> 00:01:24.140 love the band and they keep us going. the other 00:01:24.140 --> 00:01:26.459 thing i would be saying we just we we get along 00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:32.140 that we don't have um there's no infighting there 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:35.200 really never has been if there are disagreements 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:40.159 they get settled graciously and we just get along 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:44.219 we're well six now really good friends and that's 00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:46.819 that's been really the most important thing because 00:01:46.819 --> 00:01:49.599 everything that you go through as a touring band 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.540 especially in the beginning when You're touring 00:01:53.540 --> 00:01:56.680 in cars and you have five guys to a hotel room 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:00.079 and all that ridiculous stuff. If you don't get 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.939 along, it's not going to go very far. I know. 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.379 And similar to an experience at a Mo concert, 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.560 at least for me. The music is continually evolving. 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.379 And I think the same could be said about the 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:18.620 band's music in general over the last 35 years. 00:02:18.819 --> 00:02:22.500 How would you describe the evolution of the band's 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:25.020 sound over the last three and a half decades? 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.539 Well, in the beginning, the evolution came from 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:33.879 us honestly learning how to play, learning our 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:38.240 instruments, learning where they fit in, what 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.030 works. instrumentally for each person and just 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:46.030 how to play our own instruments. Then the next 00:02:46.030 --> 00:02:50.750 part of it, like in the 2000s and stuff, was 00:02:50.750 --> 00:02:54.469 probably really just listening. Listening to 00:02:54.469 --> 00:02:57.009 what each other have to say, both on the stage 00:02:57.009 --> 00:03:03.449 and off the stage. Mo never really said that 00:03:03.449 --> 00:03:07.509 we have a specific sound. Um, there was never 00:03:07.509 --> 00:03:11.090 any kind of rules as to, you know, well, that 00:03:11.090 --> 00:03:13.370 doesn't sound like a most, that's not, you know, 00:03:13.370 --> 00:03:17.930 anything was kind of open and it led to some 00:03:17.930 --> 00:03:21.469 weird things that we don't necessarily do anymore, 00:03:21.650 --> 00:03:26.069 but it also enabled us to grow and, and, you 00:03:26.069 --> 00:03:28.250 know, to constantly sort of push our music in, 00:03:28.289 --> 00:03:32.129 in, and take it where we wanted it to be and 00:03:32.129 --> 00:03:35.569 try not to listen to all the outside noises to. 00:03:36.189 --> 00:03:39.550 what kind of band we were supposed to be or despite 00:03:39.550 --> 00:03:43.009 Genre and and all that stuff. We kind of always 00:03:43.009 --> 00:03:46.629 just did What we enjoyed what we felt comfortable 00:03:46.629 --> 00:03:49.169 playing what we like to play and how we like 00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:52.590 to play it Well, now, before we pivot into Circle 00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:54.750 of Giants, if you'd like to hear some stories 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:59.069 about songs from the last 13 Mo albums, be sure 00:03:59.069 --> 00:04:02.770 to check out episode 35, the Ultimate Mo playlist, 00:04:02.889 --> 00:04:06.110 where Jim and I talked about a ton of classic 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:08.810 Mo jams. I'll post a link to that show in the 00:04:08.810 --> 00:04:12.150 show notes, as well as on the episode page at 00:04:12.150 --> 00:04:16.290 myweeklymixtape .com. So now let's dive into 00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:20.399 the brand new Mo album, Circle of Giants. It's 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.879 no secret to any of the super morons, the fans 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:26.560 listening that this band's been through a lot 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.199 of trials, tribulations and changes over the 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.899 last couple of years, including Chuck's recovery 00:04:31.899 --> 00:04:35.079 from a stroke, Rob's personal family matters, 00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:37.199 and then the addition of Nate Wilson on keys. 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:40.300 So with all of those things happening around 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:43.379 the band's camp, when did the wheels get set 00:04:43.379 --> 00:04:49.120 in motion for this album? Probably really once. 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.300 chuck settled in you know after chuck settled 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:58.839 back in and and you know his recovery was unbelievable 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.199 first of all um the fact that he can even play 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.819 at all is still amazes me but once he he really 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:09.939 got settled in and proved to not you know mostly 00:05:09.939 --> 00:05:14.060 to himself really than to any of us that he could 00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:16.800 still continue on and still do this and still 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:21.240 play to a level that that he wanted to. For us, 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.800 I don't know that we were all too concerned. 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:28.279 Regardless of anything, Chuck would always be 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.079 our guitar player or one of our guitar players. 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:34.639 We'd accept what he could do and what he couldn't, 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:38.540 but his own personal drive would not accept him 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:43.879 taking backward steps. Once that and we started 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.730 playing, Nate started falling into the fold a 00:05:47.730 --> 00:05:52.470 lot better, and we knew how that was going to 00:05:52.470 --> 00:05:55.209 work. Because when we first played with Nate, 00:05:55.310 --> 00:05:57.269 we had Souk on guitar, and then bringing Chuck 00:05:57.269 --> 00:05:59.269 back makes everything a little bit different. 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:04.829 At that point, Rob had a bunch of songs previously 00:06:04.829 --> 00:06:08.389 written. Nate started to bring his own original 00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:12.029 stuff to the band. Some of them were older songs 00:06:12.029 --> 00:06:14.949 that he had written, and then some were... songs 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:17.910 that he wrote either with rob or with al or you 00:06:17.910 --> 00:06:21.410 know however it went and that's when it was like 00:06:21.410 --> 00:06:24.470 all right well we it's been a long time since 00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:27.769 we've recorded a record we needed to start to 00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:33.290 focus on on getting this new iteration of the 00:06:33.290 --> 00:06:36.629 band recorded you know that was definitely very 00:06:36.629 --> 00:06:40.230 important to have something with nate on it something 00:06:40.230 --> 00:06:44.759 that was you know mostly newer songs And to get 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:47.600 that done and get it out. And when was the timeframe 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:49.399 of the recording? When did you guys actually, 00:06:49.500 --> 00:06:52.360 when were you in the studio for this? It was 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:57.860 last summer. I'm trying to think of exactly when 00:06:57.860 --> 00:07:03.139 it, when it was. I want to say June. It was sometime 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:05.319 in June. I think that we went in and actually 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.540 got all the recording and stuff done because 00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:12.360 it had to have been before the long July run. 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:15.459 our summer run with Daniel and all that stuff. 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:17.879 It was either before it or right after it. Now 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.699 I can't last year was, I mean, it's hard to last 00:07:21.699 --> 00:07:24.540 year. It was very difficult for me to index it. 00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:29.079 It is just way too much. It happens from a personal 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:31.420 level. I could say, I completely understand that 00:07:31.420 --> 00:07:34.980 sentiment. I had the chance to catch your summer 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:37.920 shows last year when you played at the music 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:41.490 fest cafe in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And that 00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:44.389 night you guys debuted, at least for me personally, 00:07:44.509 --> 00:07:47.089 a song that I hadn't heard before. And that ended 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:49.870 up being the lead single from Circle of Giants 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:52.610 entitled Ups and Downs, which I'll play a clip 00:07:52.610 --> 00:09:10.399 of now. It smells like gin. Now Jim, Moe's been 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:13.139 known to road test songs before committing them 00:09:13.139 --> 00:09:16.610 to a studio album. But you've also done the opposite, 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.370 like on 2008's Sticks and Stones, where the majority 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:23.269 was written kind of for the record. Overall, 00:09:23.590 --> 00:09:26.450 how much of Circle of Giants did you guys road 00:09:26.450 --> 00:09:30.009 test before hitting the studio? A good chunk 00:09:30.009 --> 00:09:32.210 of it. I mean, Yellow Tigers was played a lot. 00:09:32.610 --> 00:09:39.909 In Stride was played a lot. Backcountry and Ups 00:09:39.909 --> 00:09:43.059 and Downs were played. Ups and Downs probably 00:09:43.059 --> 00:09:45.500 was the newest one that probably got played the 00:09:45.500 --> 00:09:49.379 least out of the songs on the record. But most 00:09:49.379 --> 00:09:52.759 of it, I don't know that there's... Band in the 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:57.500 Sky might be the only song that we only played 00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:01.320 live like twice maybe. And I think that was actually 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:12.230 after we recorded it. Spinning, floating by. 00:10:13.649 --> 00:10:20.789 You can see the silver lines if you try. Learning 00:10:20.789 --> 00:10:28.669 how far, how to fly. Learning how far, how to 00:10:28.669 --> 00:10:59.149 fly. I was still just spinning, floating. The 00:10:59.149 --> 00:11:07.629 second part, the missing, the hardest part. The 00:11:07.629 --> 00:11:18.570 second part, the missing, the hardest part. Obviously, 00:11:18.710 --> 00:11:21.210 Living Again was an old song that we brought 00:11:21.210 --> 00:11:24.470 back, but a lot of times it doesn't matter how 00:11:24.470 --> 00:11:26.330 many times you play these songs live when you 00:11:26.330 --> 00:11:28.629 get into the studio and start to work on them. 00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:32.350 they're gonna change you know throughout the 00:11:32.350 --> 00:11:35.409 times of us playing in stride and even ups and 00:11:35.409 --> 00:11:38.529 downs there was always these big drum parts that 00:11:38.529 --> 00:11:43.629 i heard in my head that i didn't have the gear 00:11:43.629 --> 00:11:48.070 to play live so those got flown in you know when 00:11:48.070 --> 00:11:51.169 we did the recordings and stuff just sort of 00:11:51.169 --> 00:11:59.250 gets added uh we had played um I was so bad at 00:11:59.250 --> 00:12:03.350 song titles. Don't you know? Don't you know? 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:50.730 Okay. Yeah, that song completely changed. The 00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:53.889 song is 100 % different than anything that we 00:12:53.889 --> 00:12:58.090 played live on it. At Giants as well, which we, 00:12:58.149 --> 00:13:01.509 Giants, we had only played, again, maybe twice 00:13:01.509 --> 00:13:04.889 live. And it was because we were working on it 00:13:04.889 --> 00:13:09.269 in soundchecks and we got this kind of skeletal 00:13:09.269 --> 00:13:13.889 outline of it. And we didn't, Giants, we didn't 00:13:13.889 --> 00:13:17.110 even actually record in the original session. 00:13:17.789 --> 00:13:20.049 When we got done with the original session, we 00:13:20.049 --> 00:13:23.789 had now come to a point where we played Giants 00:13:23.789 --> 00:13:27.070 a couple times in July and really working on 00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:30.570 it in July. And then there was that and a couple 00:13:30.570 --> 00:13:34.370 songs that we still had to finish because we 00:13:34.370 --> 00:13:37.370 didn't actually finish all the recording we wanted 00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:42.190 to before we went on tour and everything. So 00:13:42.190 --> 00:13:44.330 those guys actually went up, since they're all 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:46.230 in the Northeast, they went up to Rob's house 00:13:46.230 --> 00:13:49.769 and he's got a barn now. They recorded Giants 00:13:49.769 --> 00:13:53.789 in the barn. And I was going to do all the overdub 00:13:53.789 --> 00:13:57.570 stuff in my basement here. When they sent me 00:13:57.570 --> 00:14:00.649 the track, I was like, this is not even the same 00:14:00.649 --> 00:14:04.870 song. It starts out the same and the verse sections 00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:07.669 are the same, but then there was this whole other 00:14:07.669 --> 00:14:09.730 part of it that was added to it. And I was like, 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:13.139 oh my God. what do y 'all want me to do okay 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:16.679 i thought i had the song you know like i thought 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:18.480 i was like i have the song down i could do it 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.059 no problem then i listened to it i'm like all 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:23.240 right this is this whole other half of the song 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:27.460 is i what's going on so i had to kind of just 00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:31.220 record a bunch of stuff and send it to them and 00:14:31.220 --> 00:14:35.139 be like just use what you want and don't use 00:14:35.139 --> 00:14:37.519 what you don't want like here's a bunch of crap 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:42.139 do it what you will Well, giants is, dare I use 00:14:42.139 --> 00:14:44.700 the words, kind of a psychedelic trip of a song. 00:14:44.759 --> 00:15:46.830 And I'll play a clip of that now. Giants clocks 00:15:46.830 --> 00:15:49.590 in at eight minutes and 21 seconds, and it's 00:15:49.590 --> 00:15:52.330 not even the longest song on the album, which 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:54.690 speaks to my jam band heart when I say that. 00:15:54.809 --> 00:15:57.629 That award goes to Band in the Sky, which clocks 00:15:57.629 --> 00:16:01.389 in at 12 minutes long. When Mo plays live, you 00:16:01.389 --> 00:16:04.690 guys obviously open up the songs for jamming 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:07.370 and improvisation. However, when you're in the 00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:10.690 studio, it's a different animal in a sense. So 00:16:10.690 --> 00:16:14.470 how do you guys decide, okay, this is the sweet 00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:20.460 spot. in terms of a studio length song? We don't 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:24.320 have any hard and fast rules. Generally speaking, 00:16:25.340 --> 00:16:29.379 if a song is really long live and the only reason 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:32.679 it's long live is because of a solo, guitar solo, 00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:35.039 vibraphone solo, keyboard solo, whatever it is, 00:16:35.179 --> 00:16:39.379 we will cut that down in the studio because it 00:16:39.379 --> 00:16:42.899 just becomes unnecessary. There's reasons to 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:47.419 do it live. necessarily reasons to do it in a 00:16:47.419 --> 00:16:51.000 studio because those parts don't they don't evolve 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.440 the same way if you're in this kind of enclosed 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.639 no fan no energy environment or low energy environment 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:02.080 i should say but if like the ending of band in 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.000 the sky or the whole last four minutes of giants 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.839 there was you know a roadmap for how that was 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.200 going to evolve the same thing with the end of 00:17:13.200 --> 00:18:04.619 living again You know, it was discussed and like, 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.539 this is what, you know, the author, the writer 00:18:07.539 --> 00:18:09.660 of the song wanted to happen with this part. 00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:13.539 You know, so some of those needed to be kind 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:17.039 of that length to have it evolve, to go from 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.200 where it started in that instrumental section 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.819 to where it ends. And that's the only thing we 00:18:22.819 --> 00:18:25.220 can do in the studio is, like I said, taking 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:28.299 a solo and trying to make it, it's just not the 00:18:28.299 --> 00:18:31.140 same as if you have this sort of roadmapped. 00:18:31.549 --> 00:18:35.710 semi -improv feely section that you just kind 00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:40.450 of want to build so there's a level of when we're 00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:42.109 playing it in the studio because we play all 00:18:42.109 --> 00:18:46.150 together you can get it to that peak and feel 00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:48.569 it you know and know that this is where the out 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:52.410 is but you're sort of directed as to how to get 00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:55.329 there the amount of time is whatever happens 00:18:55.329 --> 00:18:58.029 you know if we had stopped playing and band in 00:18:58.029 --> 00:18:59.829 the sky ended up being 20 minutes because the 00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:01.950 end was Like we would have been like, yeah, they 00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:07.009 might want to kind of reduce that. Well, as we 00:19:07.009 --> 00:19:09.269 talked about on episode 35, the band has always 00:19:09.269 --> 00:19:11.730 taken kind of unique approaches to recording 00:19:11.730 --> 00:19:15.049 albums. As you mentioned, kind of that live energy 00:19:15.049 --> 00:19:18.829 like that you captured on 2003's Wormwood and 00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:22.609 2007's The Conk. Those are studio albums that 00:19:22.609 --> 00:19:24.730 were tracked live in front of an audience and 00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:27.670 then finalized in the studio. And then you also 00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:32.589 recorded albums live in the studio like 2010's 00:19:32.589 --> 00:19:35.930 Smash Hits Volume 1, the re -recordings album. 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:39.210 I haven't listened to Circle of Giants several 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:42.759 times in a row now. I have to assume that a lot 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:45.259 of this album was tracked live because there's 00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:48.680 an energy and spirit in these songs that I think 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:51.740 might get lost if they were tracked each instrument 00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:54.259 separately. Either that or you guys are just 00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:56.259 so damn good in the studio that you fooled the 00:19:56.259 --> 00:19:58.920 hell out of me. Can you talk about the recording 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.660 sessions for this album? Yeah, it was all tracked 00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:06.460 live. I mean, there's overdubs on it. There's 00:20:06.460 --> 00:20:10.200 minor fixes and punches and stuff that exists. 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:13.329 any studio album, really. Of course, yeah. But 00:20:13.329 --> 00:20:15.809 it was all completely tracked live. Pretty much 00:20:15.809 --> 00:20:19.569 any record we've ever done starts off with us 00:20:19.569 --> 00:20:24.390 all playing the song live in the studio. And 00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:29.430 then we take what's good and use it. It used 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:33.930 to be our mentality was we're tracking live just 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:37.410 to make sure that we get the drum part. Through 00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:40.529 playing together for decades, it's come to a 00:20:40.529 --> 00:20:44.849 point where most of the stuff that we track live 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:48.769 is usable on the record. Chuck and Al get their 00:20:48.769 --> 00:20:52.369 sounds before we start. Rob gets his sound before 00:20:52.369 --> 00:20:55.950 we start. So that's never an issue. We're usually 00:20:55.950 --> 00:20:58.910 very solid on the songs and we play well together. 00:20:59.369 --> 00:21:03.369 So for Circle of Giants, I couldn't even see 00:21:03.369 --> 00:21:08.230 them. a floor below them in an isolation room. 00:21:08.769 --> 00:21:12.789 I couldn't see him at all and just playing along, 00:21:13.009 --> 00:21:16.930 you know, but most of the percussion stuff that 00:21:16.930 --> 00:21:18.970 like a lot of the conga parts and all that are 00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:22.089 from the original take. And then if there was, 00:21:22.190 --> 00:21:24.470 you know, cause I can't obviously play everything 00:21:24.470 --> 00:21:26.970 at the same time. If I wanted some Bali part 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:29.750 and stuff that would overdub that, but almost 00:21:29.750 --> 00:21:33.529 everything is, is as it was. All the vibraphone 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:36.279 are living again is just, the right off the original 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.819 take like i said 90 of the conga parts are right 00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:43.180 off the original take and that again that's just 00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:46.539 purely because we have played together for so 00:21:46.539 --> 00:21:51.279 long and we know what what we want to hear um 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.880 those guys know how they want their instruments 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.359 to sound everything you know as long as everything's 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.119 sounding good going to tape usually the playing 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.740 is is not the problem you know and Sometimes 00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:05.519 solos, most of the solos end up getting overdubbed. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.519 You'll hear on a couple songs, there's Nate's 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.619 playing organ, Rhodes, and like Mellotron or 00:22:12.619 --> 00:22:16.440 whatever. So those other parts have to be overdubbed. 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:21.420 But these days, this is not, we are not normal. 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.420 Most of that is live in the studio. This was 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.400 live in the studio. I mean, even going back as 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.680 far as Sticks and Stones, most of that is live 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.279 in the studio. over the years have just tried 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:38.279 to eliminate overdubs entirely you know if they 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:41.339 need to fix like this bridge section i kind of 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:45.319 screwed up let's punch in you know 12 bars of 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.119 that that's one thing but as far as going back 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:50.640 and being like i want you to do the whole guitar 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.700 track again that just doesn't happen anymore 00:22:53.390 --> 00:22:56.369 Now, is this a situation like the Beatles where 00:22:56.369 --> 00:22:58.289 10 years from now, when you're going to do the 00:22:58.289 --> 00:23:01.369 10th anniversary of Circle of Giants, you're 00:23:01.369 --> 00:23:04.690 going to have like take seven of Yellow Tigers 00:23:04.690 --> 00:23:08.130 and take four of. Did you guys record multiple 00:23:08.130 --> 00:23:11.589 versions of every song? Yeah. Oh, yeah. All that's 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:14.230 I mean, for pretty much all our albums, there 00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:19.490 are tons of studio takes. We've had some problems 00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:22.490 with. storage spaces like katrina storage space 00:23:22.490 --> 00:23:25.869 got flooded so we're not really sure how much 00:23:25.869 --> 00:23:29.190 stuff we as far as master tapes and tracks we've 00:23:29.190 --> 00:23:33.029 lost in there when we were recording to tape 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:35.809 that's we just couldn't afford to you know you 00:23:35.809 --> 00:23:38.910 go back and just go over yes what you just did 00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:42.529 um unless someone was adamant like i can use 00:23:42.529 --> 00:23:47.509 this part save this take but the tape used to 00:23:47.509 --> 00:23:51.829 be so expensive um But with digital, yeah, we 00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:56.930 have, I mean, we'll do a take. Everyone will 00:23:56.930 --> 00:23:59.470 talk about, you know, let's do it again. Let's 00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:02.009 do it again. Let's do it again. So each song 00:24:02.009 --> 00:24:04.789 is probably, I'd say, minimum played four times, 00:24:04.970 --> 00:24:08.130 four or five times. And most of that stuff was 00:24:08.130 --> 00:24:12.089 kept. Ben just lets the, since it's digital, 00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:14.990 just let it run. So back to back to back to back 00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:19.509 takes of the song. Ben Collette was the engineer 00:24:19.509 --> 00:24:21.809 and, you know, helped us produce the record. 00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:25.009 And the guy is just gifted inside a studio. So 00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:28.490 he pulls from everywhere. Like he just constantly 00:24:28.490 --> 00:24:31.349 is aware of what's happening and he can do some 00:24:31.349 --> 00:24:34.410 things, edits and stuff at a speed that I've 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:38.490 just never seen before and just slot things in. 00:24:38.589 --> 00:24:40.569 And you're like, oh my God. All right. That actually 00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:44.349 sounds amazing. And we're not really sure where 00:24:44.349 --> 00:24:47.420 he pulled that. you know, four bars of the bass 00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:51.220 from which take. And he, the guys, yeah, he's 00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:56.559 an unbelievable engineer and, and he mixer, uh, 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.019 all that. He's just a pleasure to work with. 00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:03.380 So there are definitely outtakes of everything. 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.180 So is there ever a universe where we'll see a 00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:10.259 Moe outtakes, maybe a vault that people could 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:13.200 hear some of these versions? I mean, I would 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.019 love to do it. there's some of them are hilarious 00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:20.839 um some of them are you know just kind of just 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:24.500 weird stuff would happen in a song some of them 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:27.359 are just different interpretations of you know 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:31.339 of that song it is faster slower the solo changed 00:25:31.339 --> 00:25:33.339 in this part someone tried something different 00:25:33.339 --> 00:25:36.140 for this part so it would be really cool that 00:25:36.140 --> 00:25:39.200 it the problem is the the only problem is logistics 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.980 and having someone because there's so much of 00:25:41.980 --> 00:25:45.630 it at this point So either for us to go through 00:25:45.630 --> 00:25:48.430 it all or for someone else to go through all 00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:50.569 of it and be like, you know, you guys should 00:25:50.569 --> 00:25:55.710 hear this. That is, it was a lot. It would be 00:25:55.710 --> 00:25:58.950 a lot, a lot of work. Just send them my way. 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:02.789 I'll take the bullet. Because, I mean, we also 00:26:02.789 --> 00:26:05.130 have like tons of just jams when we're first 00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:07.569 starting out in the studio and they're just rolling 00:26:07.569 --> 00:26:10.160 tape and we're just playing. and it's not a song 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.740 it's not anything it's just us warming up and 00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:16.480 the engineer getting sounds you know making sure 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.119 the drums sound good making sure everything sounds 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:21.680 good in the booth and we have just played for 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.880 15 or 20 minutes straight just rolling and so 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.380 we have a bunch of that stuff yeah that it's 00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:32.400 mountains and mountains of music to sort through 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.000 there's a lot of opportunities there i'm just 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.750 saying from a fan perspective Now, back on episode 00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:41.990 35, you and I talked about the songwriting process 00:26:41.990 --> 00:26:44.130 for the band and how each member contributes 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:47.589 their songs to the mix. How did this album balance 00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:51.309 out in terms of the writing contributions? This 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.990 particular album is mostly just Rob, Al, and 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:57.910 Nate as far as the starts of the songs. And a 00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:01.609 lot on this record, those guys knew already what 00:27:01.609 --> 00:27:05.549 they really wanted to hear. And a lot of those 00:27:05.549 --> 00:27:08.640 songs, since we had been playing, There was a 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.359 very, I don't want to say strict, but there was 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.039 a strong idea of what they wanted. So it was 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.559 kind of easy in that respect as far as no one 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:24.220 was really trying to come up with how are we 00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:26.799 going to arrange this? What am I going to play? 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.000 And that kind of thing. That was already kind 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.839 of solidified for the most part. The only song 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.259 I can think of was in Don't You Know, there was 00:27:36.259 --> 00:27:39.660 some... a bunch of stuff since it changed so 00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:43.759 much and rob wanted a completely kind of different 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:47.559 look on the song or sound from the song and we 00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:51.380 had been doing there was a couple arrangement 00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:53.740 things that we had to do there was a lot of listening 00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:55.839 back to that song and saying well actually in 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:59.759 this part you know you can do this or like the 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:02.079 vocals actually need to do this there needs to 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.799 be a stop like stuff like that But for the most 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.400 part, everything was fairly solidified before 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.579 we went in to actually record. Now, earlier, 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.720 you and I talked about Nate Wilson joining the 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.000 band. And as you mentioned, he wasted no time 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:19.380 bringing his songwriting into the fold as he 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:21.599 contributed two tracks on this album, including 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.940 the album opener Yellow Tigers, which I'll play 00:28:23.940 --> 00:29:46.460 a clip of now. How would you describe Nate's 00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.180 songwriting style in comparison to the other 00:29:49.180 --> 00:29:57.180 members of the band? It's funny. He's a monster 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.799 player. He studied the instrument. He majored 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.220 in music in college. He's studied with amazing 00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:06.920 teachers in the Massachusetts area where he's 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:12.390 from. But when he writes songs, they're... way 00:30:12.390 --> 00:30:14.950 more accessible and simpler than you would think. 00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:20.190 If you were just to listen to him solo, you would 00:30:20.190 --> 00:30:22.950 think that this guy is just over the head of 00:30:22.950 --> 00:30:28.049 many people. Like his knowledge and interpretation 00:30:28.049 --> 00:30:32.130 of harmonies and melodies and chord changes and 00:30:32.130 --> 00:30:35.069 substitutions, he can play modally, he can play 00:30:35.069 --> 00:30:39.130 in keys, he's just... so well versed in it and 00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:40.890 if you were just to hear him solo you'd think 00:30:40.890 --> 00:30:43.210 that like a song that he would write would have 00:30:43.210 --> 00:30:46.470 you know 15 different chords in it and all these 00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:49.009 different inversions and key changes and all 00:30:49.009 --> 00:30:52.269 this stuff but it's not it's very straightforward 00:30:52.269 --> 00:30:56.609 like he's a he's a big fan of well he's a fan 00:30:56.609 --> 00:31:00.619 of a lot of music but Honestly, if you look at 00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:02.880 him and look at how he dresses and all that stuff, 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.180 you can kind of see what kind of song he's going 00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:12.099 to write. He hits that 70s kind of psychedelica. 00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:16.779 He likes a lot of sort of the heavier aspects 00:31:16.779 --> 00:31:20.440 of it. When he plays organ, it's very dirty. 00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:23.920 And even the roads, he's not always clean on 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:26.759 the roads. He likes a lot of that kind of dirt 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.539 and thick. thick sounds and he likes a lot of 00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:33.339 journey stuff like not the band but stuff that 00:31:33.339 --> 00:31:37.339 sort of takes you from point a to point b but 00:31:37.339 --> 00:31:39.920 most of it is really like yellow tiger is this 00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:43.660 incredibly straightforward rock song even in 00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:48.140 stride which is borderline ballady but once it 00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:50.700 gets into the verse then it just has that that 00:31:50.700 --> 00:33:32.039 feel At first, I thought these things were, you 00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:33.859 know, he was going to introduce a lot of complexity 00:33:33.859 --> 00:33:36.200 to the band, but he really did. He really just 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:40.220 kind of found his sweet spot and writes kind 00:33:40.220 --> 00:33:44.920 of simple, straightforward songs. And, you know, 00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:48.619 the only contrast is to some of the kind of like 00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:51.200 epic anthemic songs that we've written, like 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.220 Rebubula and Billy Goat and that have all these 00:33:54.220 --> 00:33:56.940 changes in it and like section, section, section. 00:33:57.639 --> 00:33:59.859 And, you know, he's like, no, verse, chorus, 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:03.559 bridge, you know, and that's how we're going 00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:06.500 to roll. Like, all right. Like, it was interesting 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:08.920 to see the stuff that he churned out as opposed 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:11.239 to what, you know, I might have been thinking 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:16.800 in the beginning. Well, you mentioned 70s rock. 00:34:17.380 --> 00:34:20.500 So I'm going to play a clip of Bat Country now, 00:34:20.599 --> 00:35:00.309 and then we're going to talk about this. The 00:35:00.309 --> 00:35:02.929 first thing that caught my attention about this 00:35:02.929 --> 00:35:07.510 song was Nate's use of a flute in the song, which 00:35:07.510 --> 00:35:10.630 certainly sets the song apart from the other 00:35:10.630 --> 00:35:13.949 nine songs on this album. And let's be honest, 00:35:14.070 --> 00:35:17.610 it also sets itself apart from a lot of Moe's 00:35:17.610 --> 00:35:21.650 catalog. Because when you hear flute, you automatically 00:35:21.650 --> 00:35:25.449 get drawn to band names like Jethro Tull, Genesis, 00:35:25.809 --> 00:35:30.199 Heart, Moody Blues, Marshall Tucker Band. How 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:34.039 did that get introduced into this track? Well, 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.559 from when he first started playing with us, he 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:42.739 had been playing flute in certain songs. I played 00:35:42.739 --> 00:35:45.900 it for a while live and it's really difficult, 00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:49.360 especially if it's not your main instrument. 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:52.099 Basically, what happens is you have a handful 00:35:52.099 --> 00:35:56.679 of keys that you're well -versed in and everything 00:35:56.679 --> 00:35:58.300 else you're just not even going to touch with 00:35:58.300 --> 00:36:02.639 a 10 -foot pole because trying to play the full 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.780 range of the instrument and be in tune and everything 00:36:05.780 --> 00:36:09.539 in a weird off -key is just really difficult, 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.420 like I said, unless it's your main instrument. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:17.199 So in a lot of the E minor songs, D, G, those 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:20.679 are fairly accessible to play in and to play 00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:24.920 in tune, more importantly. He had been taking 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:27.719 some solos, been doubling the lines in the pit, 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:33.079 stuff like that. It just fit because the intro 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:37.340 is just me playing Aguero, Rob playing the bass 00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:41.599 line, and Vin playing a super simple drum line. 00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:46.260 There needed to be something over that to kick 00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:50.099 the song off. So it just made sense, instead 00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:52.679 of having him play like an organ part of something 00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.480 that was like really big over the top of this, 00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:58.260 to have just the flute float right over the top. 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:01.639 It works perfectly. And the song always reminds 00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:06.840 me of a war song, just that it has enough of 00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.199 a Latin feel. Almost like spill the wine. Yeah, 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.340 exactly. Like that kind of feel at the top. And 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:16.320 the flute just always works well if you're in 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.500 sort of that Latin -y. And then up until the 00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:24.500 chorus, that's kind of the feel that it is. And 00:37:24.500 --> 00:37:27.300 then the chorus kicks in and then you have this 00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:31.280 straight cowbell bonking through the chorus and 00:37:31.280 --> 00:38:09.869 everything sort of locks together. But then you 00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:11.469 get back into the solo section and we're back 00:38:11.469 --> 00:38:14.789 into kind of that Latin -y kind of feel, which 00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:17.690 is, the solo section more takes me into like 00:38:17.690 --> 00:38:21.210 a Santana vibe than, because war stuff is all 00:38:21.210 --> 00:38:24.050 slower and laid back and, you know, easy rider 00:38:24.050 --> 00:38:27.789 kind of thing. And the solo section just jumps 00:38:27.789 --> 00:38:47.219 at, you know, it's a whole different part. As 00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:50.199 far as that and then the re -intro of the song, 00:38:50.500 --> 00:38:54.239 the flute just works, man. And it leaves a lot 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.039 of space. It's an instrument that doesn't congest 00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.719 everything. It sort of floats over the top, you 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.940 know? So it's really nice to go back and forth 00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:05.599 between that feel, the intro, then the verse, 00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:07.400 and the re -intro, then another verse. It just 00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:10.719 worked out really well. And something I noticed 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:13.179 across the entire album to kind of jump off what 00:39:13.179 --> 00:39:16.079 you're saying there, there's a lot of space in 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.679 these songs. And I don't mean space as in the 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.940 sound of the recording. I mean, separation between 00:39:22.940 --> 00:39:25.159 the instruments. Everybody's giving each other 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:27.699 breathing room and you could really kind of hone 00:39:27.699 --> 00:39:31.159 in on each of the different instruments. When 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.139 you're playing that live, is that something? 00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:35.340 Because you said you were tucked away, not even 00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:38.719 looking at. people in the room. How do you guys 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.159 judge? Okay. I got to back off here to kind of 00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.800 let Rob float through this part of the song or 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.159 let Al's part kind of shine through. It's, I 00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:50.699 mean, you get used to in the writing of the songs 00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:53.059 and the development of the songs and then playing 00:39:53.059 --> 00:39:56.599 the songs live, you get used to what sort of 00:39:56.599 --> 00:40:00.199 needs to be heard. Like what is the main instrument 00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:03.420 that's driving this part? You know, what really 00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:07.239 needs to pop. And if it's not you, take a step 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:11.739 back like almost stop i mean there there's you 00:40:11.739 --> 00:40:13.980 know doing a lot of these songs live like i am 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:18.440 like i said in in the intro to in the verse parts 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:21.840 of back country i'm just playing the guiro in 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.440 a lot of the choruses and sections of in stride 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.179 i'm just playing a tambourine like then just 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:34.780 doesn't need to be anything else everything else 00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:38.530 is covered You know, so you kind of, and for 00:40:38.530 --> 00:40:42.510 us, having started as a four piece, then advanced 00:40:42.510 --> 00:40:46.570 to five and now six, it's a huge learning curve. 00:40:46.650 --> 00:40:48.610 You know, when we were a four piece, everybody 00:40:48.610 --> 00:40:51.730 play all the time as fast as you can, as much 00:40:51.730 --> 00:40:54.449 as you can. You know, like you listen to the 00:40:54.449 --> 00:40:58.170 old songs off of Fatboy and Headseed and that's 00:40:58.170 --> 00:41:01.230 just all it is. It's just us going, you know, 00:41:01.230 --> 00:41:04.630 as hard as we can at it. and throwing out as 00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:08.309 much as we knew. And just over the years, after 00:41:08.309 --> 00:41:11.309 playing, and then when I came back in, and there 00:41:11.309 --> 00:41:13.809 was a whole other thing. Now Vin has to pay attention 00:41:13.809 --> 00:41:16.530 to what I'm doing. People have to pay attention 00:41:16.530 --> 00:41:20.550 to a new element that's introduced into the band. 00:41:20.909 --> 00:41:23.210 Then the vibraphone came in, and that was another 00:41:23.210 --> 00:41:26.130 melodic thing now that Chuck and Al and Rob had 00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:29.150 to listen to. And then now we have Nate. And 00:41:29.150 --> 00:41:33.590 with the keys, I mean... He can either dominate 00:41:33.590 --> 00:41:38.210 a song or he can just sort of not really do much. 00:41:38.530 --> 00:41:41.469 And if you watch him throughout a night, you 00:41:41.469 --> 00:41:42.949 know, you'll see him just take his hands off 00:41:42.949 --> 00:41:44.690 the keyboard. He'll get a drink. He'll sit there 00:41:44.690 --> 00:41:48.949 and literally do nothing. And between him and 00:41:48.949 --> 00:41:53.530 I, that's the biggest part. Like, I feel like 00:41:53.530 --> 00:41:58.489 me and Nate have to know when to just stop, like 00:41:58.489 --> 00:42:01.840 not even. like do something soft like literally 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:05.980 just stop and get out we started playing no quarter 00:42:05.980 --> 00:42:09.559 which granted is a cover song and stuff but the 00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:11.840 first like three or four times playing it i'm 00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:14.019 i'm like trying to figure out what the hell to 00:42:14.019 --> 00:42:17.500 do as a percussionist in a zeppelin song and 00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:21.539 now and now i just sit down i don't play in the 00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:25.119 song at all like i just i sit down and listen 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.139 to a really good version of a led zeppelin song 00:42:29.070 --> 00:42:32.449 You know, so you just kind of got to eventually, 00:42:32.550 --> 00:42:34.929 you know, when when that is, you know, Miles 00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:37.690 Davis always used to talk about you just take 00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:40.469 the instrument away from your mouth. Like there 00:42:40.469 --> 00:42:42.190 are times where you don't have to do anything. 00:42:42.369 --> 00:42:47.730 And we're learning that and learning how much 00:42:47.730 --> 00:42:50.050 more important it is now than when we were a 00:42:50.050 --> 00:42:52.570 four piece or even a five piece. Like it's completely 00:42:52.570 --> 00:42:55.929 different. Well, Circle of Giants clocks in at 00:42:55.929 --> 00:42:59.550 just over 68 minutes long. So it leads me to 00:42:59.550 --> 00:43:02.050 wonder, were there any songs that you guys tracked 00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:04.550 for this album that didn't make the final cut? 00:43:05.309 --> 00:43:09.510 Actually, no, because like I said, we didn't 00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:14.110 finish what we wanted to in the actual studio. 00:43:14.329 --> 00:43:18.289 So we came out of Tank when we left Tank's recording 00:43:18.289 --> 00:43:22.909 studios and went back and looked at how the... 00:43:23.099 --> 00:43:25.000 album was going to lay out, how the tracks were 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.280 going to be and stuff. We actually realized we 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:32.099 needed more. We didn't get enough done. So there 00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:36.820 was two or three songs that they went up and 00:43:36.820 --> 00:43:40.219 did in Rob's barn and I did all my stuff at home. 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:42.780 And which ones were those? I know you had said 00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:45.760 Giants was one of them. Yes. Giants was one of 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:48.820 them. Beautiful Mess and Bear Song were three 00:43:48.820 --> 00:43:52.090 songs that we went and recorded afterwards. Bear 00:43:52.090 --> 00:43:55.789 song seemed kind of like an odd man out. So I 00:43:55.789 --> 00:43:58.809 don't think it got included on the final album. 00:43:58.969 --> 00:44:01.710 And I'm not sure if Beautiful Mess did, although 00:44:01.710 --> 00:44:04.630 I think it did. Beautiful Mess is on there. Yeah. 00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:08.170 That was another song that it's funny when Rob 00:44:08.170 --> 00:44:12.849 did his solo record over COVID at home, that 00:44:12.849 --> 00:44:15.670 was one of the songs that I loved off that album. 00:44:16.449 --> 00:44:19.429 And I had no idea that they were going to record 00:44:19.429 --> 00:44:23.400 it. The goal was, i'm pretty sure was just to 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:27.480 get giants and bear song and rob just showed 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:31.840 them all the song there and so again when i got 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.860 emailed the tracks i was like what what is that 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:37.559 what and then i'm like oh my god that's i realized 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:39.840 everything clicked like what it what song it 00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:42.519 was and i'm like okay so that was another one 00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.199 though that i had never played never you know 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:48.199 I mean, obviously I heard the song enough to 00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:50.239 be semi -familiar with it, but the version that 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.860 we did is slightly different than what Rob recorded. 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:56.000 And again, I was just like, I am just going to 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.719 record a bunch of stuff and y 'all just pick 00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:01.739 what is going to work and what isn't. Because 00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:04.619 I don't know what to do and I'm here in my basement 00:45:04.619 --> 00:45:07.619 by myself with no direction, like nobody in the 00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:10.099 booth being like, hey, can you actually try this? 00:45:10.139 --> 00:45:13.940 It was just do everything and let them sort it 00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:17.719 out. Well, you guys recorded a version of bear 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:20.860 song. You recorded living again, which is a 20 00:45:20.860 --> 00:45:22.579 year old song. You guys have been playing it 00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:25.159 since the early two thousands. I know I asked 00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:27.679 this on episode 35, but I'm going to hound you. 00:45:27.739 --> 00:45:30.659 And I'm going to ask again, there are songs from 00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:34.900 the Mo catalog, like George Johnny lineup that 00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:37.800 have only kind of lived in the live universe. 00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:40.880 Is there ever going to be a, maybe an album that 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:44.019 you do that is strictly. the songs that were 00:45:44.019 --> 00:45:46.539 usually on the stage kind of done in the studio 00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:51.239 form? It's always a possibility. A lot of the 00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:56.199 songs for us that only live on the stage, like 00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:58.559 Meat, and I know there's a recording of Meat, 00:45:58.619 --> 00:46:04.119 but it's like Johnny Line Up. Those songs, we 00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:08.420 would never do them justice in the studio. It 00:46:08.420 --> 00:46:11.809 would almost be like castrating the song. because 00:46:11.809 --> 00:46:15.010 everybody is so familiar with these songs, with 00:46:15.010 --> 00:46:18.030 the energy that these songs have live, with how 00:46:18.030 --> 00:46:19.909 they're performed live. Like Johnny Lineup, we 00:46:19.909 --> 00:46:22.429 never know how long it's going to be. We don't 00:46:22.429 --> 00:46:24.429 know who's going to solo in it. We don't know 00:46:24.429 --> 00:46:27.349 how long that solo is going to be. We don't know. 00:46:27.530 --> 00:46:30.670 It's just we start playing, someone starts soloing. 00:46:30.809 --> 00:46:34.090 That person plays for however long they're comfortable 00:46:34.090 --> 00:46:37.780 playing, stops. everybody says johnny line up 00:46:37.780 --> 00:46:41.119 sings that one part then the next solo starts 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.940 and whatever happens happens the song doesn't 00:46:43.940 --> 00:46:47.480 end until vin decides it's done and which sometimes 00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:49.820 is like a surprise like all of a sudden he'll 00:46:49.820 --> 00:46:53.219 just cue the end and we'll stop and be like if 00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:55.519 you listen to versions of it live versions of 00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:58.159 it you'll hear someone else start soloing and 00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:02.239 then like oh okay we're done like we don't really 00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:06.980 exactly know so Like a song like George can definitely 00:47:06.980 --> 00:47:10.300 be done in the studio and justice can be brought 00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:14.519 to that song in the studio. It's hard as a band 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:16.440 that's continually trying to move forward to 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.880 look backwards. I understand that. Yeah. So it's 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.539 not even a matter of desire or want to do these 00:47:23.539 --> 00:47:26.179 things. Usually it's just a matter of, oh, fuck, 00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.440 we forgot again. You know, we have this stuff 00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.920 that we're just kind of like, ah, all right, 00:47:31.940 --> 00:47:35.380 well, maybe we'll do it next record. but then 00:47:35.380 --> 00:47:37.460 by that point we have this many more songs that 00:47:37.460 --> 00:47:39.579 we really want to record and that we're psyched 00:47:39.579 --> 00:47:42.739 about and you know then you go on stage and and 00:47:42.739 --> 00:47:44.659 play a song like judging like oh yeah we've never 00:47:44.659 --> 00:47:48.239 recorded this did we and which is kind of what 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.519 happened with with bear song and why it even 00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:54.920 got brought up because that bear song is a 30 00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:58.420 year old song when we've been playing it consistently 00:47:58.420 --> 00:48:01.059 for that i mean we played that song when i was 00:48:01.059 --> 00:48:04.519 drumming in the band It took this long to record 00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.260 it, you know? And it's gone through these different 00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:09.980 evolutions, too. And it's weird because, like 00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:12.699 I said, it started as a four -piece song. Then 00:48:12.699 --> 00:48:15.039 we continued to play it when I came back. And 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.980 then the marimba got added. And then now there's 00:48:17.980 --> 00:48:21.719 an organ and Rhodes part in it. Oh, my God. I 00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:25.420 got a few. Is there any chance this will be released 00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:28.119 as a single at some point? Yeah. We're planning 00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.639 on releasing it. I'm not sure how. when it's 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.280 going to be done or whatever. We had thought 00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.639 about doing a 12 -inch record with that and something 00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:41.639 else on the other side. Again, it was a lot of 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:45.559 time constraints. We thought it was going to 00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:47.900 be on the record and then listening to it against 00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:51.139 the rest of the songs, the decision was like, 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:55.940 it doesn't really fit, so we'll save it for later. 00:48:57.069 --> 00:48:59.730 I'm picturing a bear shaped vinyl. That's going 00:48:59.730 --> 00:49:01.690 to get put out for record store day. I don't 00:49:01.690 --> 00:49:03.730 know why I'm just, that's something that comes 00:49:03.730 --> 00:49:05.909 to mind, right? How cool would that be? Yeah. 00:49:06.010 --> 00:49:08.630 I can't think of the, I mean, we've never done 00:49:08.630 --> 00:49:11.050 a shape vinyl and I can't think of the last one 00:49:11.050 --> 00:49:14.250 that I've seen. I mean, I have a dozen of them, 00:49:14.289 --> 00:49:17.230 but yeah, ZZ war did an incredible guitar picked 00:49:17.230 --> 00:49:20.510 one this past year for record store day. That 00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:23.369 was really wild. It would be something of that 00:49:23.369 --> 00:49:27.380 nature. Awesome. Awesome. Well, we also talked 00:49:27.380 --> 00:49:30.739 about album titles on episode 35. I know I keep 00:49:30.739 --> 00:49:32.639 plugging that, but if you're a Mo fan listening 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.380 to this one, you want to go back and check out 00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:38.059 episode 35, but we talked about the album name, 00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.360 what happened to the Lala's and this album is 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:43.519 called circle of giants, but there's a track 00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:45.599 on the album called giants. Is there a story 00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:49.679 behind the name of the album? Yeah. I mean, it, 00:49:49.699 --> 00:49:54.570 it came out of kind of really everything. we 00:49:54.570 --> 00:49:58.369 experienced during the year a lot of the album 00:49:58.369 --> 00:50:01.849 title is is very personal to rob and everything 00:50:01.849 --> 00:50:05.190 that he went through and that's mostly what it 00:50:05.190 --> 00:50:09.469 is i don't think and this i'm not positive of 00:50:09.469 --> 00:50:12.230 i don't think nate had an absolute name for the 00:50:12.230 --> 00:50:15.570 song like i can't remember if it was always called 00:50:15.570 --> 00:50:19.530 giants or not but the album title is not specifically 00:50:19.530 --> 00:50:22.880 connected to that song in in any way It was a 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:25.659 title that Rob wanted to use for specific reasons 00:50:25.659 --> 00:50:31.239 and it was very personal to him. He's the one 00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:34.699 who really titled the album. There was a couple 00:50:34.699 --> 00:50:38.000 other different things that he had thrown around 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:42.340 in his own head and that's what he came up with. 00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:46.550 Well, the band is going to have a very busy 2025, 00:50:46.730 --> 00:50:50.309 both in celebration of the 35th anniversary of 00:50:50.309 --> 00:50:53.269 the band, as well as the circle of giants. Can 00:50:53.269 --> 00:50:56.210 you talk about what the morons have to look forward 00:50:56.210 --> 00:50:59.730 to for the rest of this year? I mean, yeah, it's 00:50:59.730 --> 00:51:06.210 a big year because in kind of what we wanted 00:51:06.210 --> 00:51:11.460 to do in 2020, I mean, you know, we had. We had 00:51:11.460 --> 00:51:13.179 the plans to record the record. We had stuff 00:51:13.179 --> 00:51:18.019 to do. It was our 30th anniversary then, which, 00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:21.039 you know, should have been a big deal. And then, 00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:25.000 you know, the wheels fell off of the world. And 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.320 then, you know, of course, we kept getting kicked 00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:32.559 while we were down. So this year, I mean, it's 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:35.300 just going to be exciting to actually get to 00:51:35.300 --> 00:51:38.199 celebrate one of our anniversaries with a new 00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:43.829 record. and everything is finally looking up 00:51:43.829 --> 00:51:49.630 for us. I hope we look forward to a lot of smiles 00:51:49.630 --> 00:51:54.489 on the stage for once and just a really solid 00:51:54.489 --> 00:51:57.570 year of touring, of trying to bring the fans 00:51:57.570 --> 00:52:01.329 back into the fold and just get as much work 00:52:01.329 --> 00:52:05.030 done as we can. We'd like to do something like 00:52:05.030 --> 00:52:09.280 we did with Daniel, a package tour. at some point 00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:13.679 in the summer because the shows we did with Daniel 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.760 was just awesome. There was just a lot of fun. 00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:19.320 They were. We'd like to get back to do something 00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.659 like that with another band that we don't just 00:52:22.659 --> 00:52:24.400 get along with musically, that we actually get 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:29.539 along with personally. We hung out with those 00:52:29.539 --> 00:52:33.460 guys a lot. I went golfing with Bronco. We just 00:52:33.460 --> 00:52:37.219 spent time together. Not necessarily on the stage, 00:52:37.340 --> 00:52:39.679 like off the stage and got to know each other 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:42.760 pretty well. So something like that, where you 00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.039 see like a really good level of energy between 00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:48.760 two or three bands that just get along and can 00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:52.539 just have a lot of fun. So that's, that's really 00:52:52.539 --> 00:52:55.659 our goal is to just play as much as we can and 00:52:55.659 --> 00:52:59.300 enjoy it and just not have something hanging 00:52:59.300 --> 00:53:03.210 over our heads again. Well, Jim, it is always 00:53:03.210 --> 00:53:05.610 a pleasure talking music with you. Congratulations 00:53:05.610 --> 00:53:10.510 on 35 years of amazing Mojams. And I look forward 00:53:10.510 --> 00:53:13.110 to personally seeing you guys at some of your 00:53:13.110 --> 00:53:15.190 New Jersey, New York shows this year so we can 00:53:15.190 --> 00:53:18.710 celebrate properly. Absolutely. And this time, 00:53:18.769 --> 00:53:20.710 get in touch with me and we'll be able to hang 00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:23.530 out, actually. Oh, dude, I'd love that. Thank 00:53:23.530 --> 00:53:27.340 you. January 31st, you can find Circle of Giants 00:53:27.340 --> 00:53:29.320 on all of your favorite streaming providers, 00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:32.699 but more importantly, it's available on vinyl 00:53:32.699 --> 00:53:35.619 and CD at your favorite indie record stores, 00:53:35.780 --> 00:53:39.599 as well as all of the upcoming Mo shows. So be 00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:41.780 sure to pick up a copy. I promise you won't be 00:53:41.780 --> 00:53:44.079 disappointed. And to all the mixtapers listening, 00:53:44.260 --> 00:53:46.880 you can connect with my weekly mixtape on almost 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:50.300 all the social media haunts at... My Weekly Mixtape. 00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:53.199 You can also head to myweeklymixtape .com to 00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:55.900 check out the full catalog of My Weekly Mixtape 00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:58.340 episodes. And finally, if you like what you're 00:53:58.340 --> 00:54:00.679 hearing on the show, you can help me out by either 00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:03.320 telling a friend, leaving the show a five -star 00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:06.059 review wherever you're tuning in, or by joining 00:54:06.059 --> 00:54:09.639 the Patreon Mixtaper community at patreon .com 00:54:09.639 --> 00:54:13.289 forward slash My Weekly Mixtape. There you can 00:54:13.289 --> 00:54:16.030 find ad -free episodes of the show, gain early 00:54:16.030 --> 00:54:19.050 access to upcoming episodes, chime in on future 00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:22.250 show topics, become a guest curator, and so much 00:54:22.250 --> 00:54:24.530 more. That's all for this week. Thanks again 00:54:24.530 --> 00:54:27.449 for listening. And until next time, enjoy the 00:54:27.449 --> 00:54:27.670 tunes.