WEBVTT

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Hey everybody, it's Eric Bass from the band Shinedown,

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and you are listening to My Weekly Mixtape with

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Brian Colburn. And let me tell you something,

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this guy knows his stuff, he does his homework,

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so buckle up, it's gonna be good. Check it out.

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Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that

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takes the classic mixtape approach to building

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a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn.

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Tonight, I am so grateful to welcome Eric Bass

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of Shinedown to the program. Eric, thank you

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so much for taking the time to join me tonight.

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Hey, Brian. How are you, man? I am doing great.

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How are you? I'm busy. I can only imagine. But

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busy is good, though. Busy is a great thing.

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Now, before we get into why you've been busy,

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I always like to start by asking my first -time

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guests, what does the word mixtape mean to you?

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Ah, freedom, freedom, man. I think about just

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a different time, you know, a different time

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in my life. I think about discovery. I think

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about, you know, sitting in front of a radio,

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listening to Rick D's or Casey Kasem or somebody

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like that trying to record songs as they went

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by on the radio, you know, like just a whole

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other, a whole other thing, a whole other time,

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man, of sharing music with people, you know,

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like there was something magical about your,

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your friend handing you a tape and just saying,

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listen to this. And you would because you didn't

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have anything else going on. It was like there

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wasn't music flying at you from 10 ,000 different

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places. It was like that mixtape got your whole

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attention. I'm sitting here right now because

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a buddy of mine handed me a long play tape with

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Back in Black on one side and Van Halen 5150

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on the other side. And that was like one of my,

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I mean, I'd heard other rock music before that,

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but I'd had, you know, I'd had other mixtapes

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and stuff, but like that tape for some reason,

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man, I know it's not really a mixtape, but it's

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sort of a mixtape. Oh, mixtapes came in all shapes

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and sizes and colors. Long play mixtape, you

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know, but, but I mean, but I did, I digested

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those things because I didn't have any other

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choice. You know, you, you hung onto those tapes

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like they were a diamond ring and they were.

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You know, it's like, where's my tape with this

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on it? And that I'm, I can, I remember distinctly

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running into my sister's rooms and asking them

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about certain tapes. Like, where's my, where's

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my pink tape with this thing on it? You know,

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my Memorex with, it says this on it, you know,

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and they would have it or they wouldn't know

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where it was. And I'd be in a panic because you

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couldn't find your music. That is awesome. Well,

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tonight we are here to talk about your debut

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solo album. I had a name for an album dive episode

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of my weekly mixtape, but before we get into

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the album, I'd like to talk a little bit about.

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How we got here as you joined Shinedown in 2008

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around the Sound of Madness cycle. And from there,

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you started taking on a role of writing and then

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producing with the band, starting on 2010's Diamond

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Eyes and then continuing through several of my

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personal favorite Shinedown songs, such as Unity,

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I'll Follow You and Cut the Chord. Can you talk

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about the transition from joining Shinedown to

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becoming a songwriter within the group and how

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they. embraced your contributions from the jump?

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Actually, well, interesting. I'll give you a

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little backstory on that. I was a record producer,

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studio rat around the time that I joined Shinedown.

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I'd come into that role of loving the recording

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studio. It was something that was always ingrained

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in me, but I'd been producing and engineering

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my own stuff, very self -taught, probably for

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five, six, seven years prior to joining Shinedown.

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But through that process of writing and producing

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other artists, a lot of upstart artists, a lot

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of young bands. I didn't really like working

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with established bands. I still don't like working

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with established bands. I'd much rather work

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with a band who's hungry, who's trying to break

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out than a band who's already doing it. But through

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that process, I met a gentleman named Steve O.

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Robertson, and he was VP of A &R at Atlantic

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Records, and he had signed Shinedown. And he

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called me one day and he said, hey, have you

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ever heard of this band Shinedown? And I said,

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no. I have not heard of this band, Shinedown.

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Not because I hadn't heard of the band, because

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a lot of people had. I was buried in a recording

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studio. I actually didn't hear a lot of new music

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at the time, whether on purpose or just as a

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result of doing what I do. But he said, oh, well,

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they did that cover of Simple Man. I was like,

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oh, yeah, I've heard that. And then he mentioned

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Save Me. And I was like, oh, I've heard that

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song, too. So I knew who the band was. And he

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said, well, hey, Brent, the singer, is writing

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for their next record. you know would love to

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send him to write with you and and record some

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demos and whatnot so brent came to charleston

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at some point in 2007 that's when i first met

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him early 2007 and i rolled up to get him at

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his hotel this dude comes rolling out of the

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hotel pink hair the whole nine We got in my car.

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We went to a show. I forget what the show was.

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We went to the music farm here in Charleston,

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South Carolina. And we went to a show and we

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proceeded to get annihilated on the Eggermeister.

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Like, I mean, done. I had to call my wife. I

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had to call my wife to come get us. I was like,

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I can't, like, you're gonna have to come get

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us. So that was my first introduction to Brent.

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We partied pretty hard that night. And then we

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wrote the next day. We worked the next day. We

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wrote for two or three days. And then I had this

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idea. I'm like, hey, I really love producing

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bands. These songs are starting to come together.

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What do you think about bringing the band in?

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And let's record these songs properly. I didn't

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do finger drums, in -the -box drums and stuff

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back then. I worked with bands. So what do you

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think about bringing the band in? He's like,

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well, I can have the drummer here probably tomorrow

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or the next day. And the guitar player after

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that. We don't have a bass player right now.

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Our bass player has left the band. I was like,

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that'll work. So Barry came to town. I met Barry.

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He and I hit it off instantaneously. So Brent

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and Barry and I were very, not close, but we

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really gelled together very quickly. I think,

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and, you know, fast forward this many years,

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I know exactly why. We all kind of similar moral

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backgrounds and whatever else, you know. But

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Jason Todd, who was the guitar player in the

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band at the time, the original guitar player

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in the band, showed up two days after Barry.

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Barry'd recorded some drums, I think, already

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at that point. And as soon as Jason showed up,

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man, everything went out the window, went to

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shit. He and Brent had a pretty codependent,

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toxic drug habit relationship with each other.

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And so as soon as Jason showed up, the drug started

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and then just nothing happened after that. Oh,

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wow. Like the whole thing shut down. The whole

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thing went out the window, the whole writing

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session. And so we left, they left without, we

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didn't complete anything. We didn't really complete.

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We had the songs were like working, but like

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we never completed them. And interestingly enough,

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Brent left right from me. He went and worked

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with Rick Beato. And Rick had produced some songs

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on Leave a Whisper, the first Shinedown record.

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And interestingly enough, before Brent came to

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work with me, actually, I called Rick. Rick and

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I were managed by the same person. And we were

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friends. And I wouldn't say colleagues or anything,

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but we were definitely friends. And so I called

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Rick and was like, this is pre -YouTube Rick

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Beato. Great producer, man. Great producer. Obviously

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a super talented guy. I mean, everybody sees

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him. I was going to say, I love his videos, man.

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Genius individual. Genius gets thrown around

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a lot in our business, but he absolutely is.

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I don't know if he would accept that or not,

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but he's just highly intelligent on many different

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levels, but extremely intelligent musically.

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Anyway, I called him. I was like, hey man, tell

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me about this Brent Smith character. And he kind

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of told me, he's like, he's super intense, you

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know, and he kind of gave me some kind of a heads

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up about Brent. Just nothing bad, just that he

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was intense and kind of what his work. how he

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worked best but anyway uh yeah so that whole

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thing fell apart and they left but but steve

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-o robertson hit me up after that he was like

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well man we didn't get anything and i kind of

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told him why he goes well hey you know they're

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looking for a bass player you know i know you

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play i was like well i play studio bass i really

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was traditionally a guitar player but i play

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bass a lot in the studio he's like he's like

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you know what do you think about maybe coming

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and they like you a lot you know maybe joining

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the band and i'm like man after that after seeing

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that dysfunction i was like i you know built

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this recording studio. My wife and I have a lot

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invested in this. I've got this whole career.

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I can't see leaving it for that. And it was,

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you know, it sucked. I mean, it was kind of like

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this, like I had to make an adult decision about

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it at that point, you know? Hate it when that

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happens. Well, fast forward to early 2008. Or

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was it late? No, it was late 2007. I get another

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call from Steve and he's like, hey man, look,

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that guitar player that was there, Jason, and

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Jason's a fine person. This is not me casting

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any sort of... I have no opinions one way or

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the other. But Jason's not in the band anymore.

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And Brent's really trying to clean up. We've

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got a new guitar player named Zach. And they

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would love it if you would come audition for

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the band. And I don't know, man. I don't know

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what it was in that moment. It's the fact that

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I was being asked twice by someone I respect

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a lot. I respect Steve O. Robertson an awful

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lot. And I still do, even after all these years.

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He's no longer with Atlantic. But he's just one

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of my... close favorite people in the business.

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But maybe it's the fact he was asking me twice

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and I said, okay, you know, send me the song.

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So he said, well, learn this song and this song.

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And they sent me, I think, Second Chance and

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Sound of Madness and Devour, I think were the

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three new songs they sent. And then I went down

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to Orlando and played my audition. And then that

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night, you know, got offered the job. And again,

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man, we were all just getting along so well.

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You know, it's like, it's one thing to play music

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with people. It's another thing to just feel

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like you just, I know these people already. And

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interestingly enough, there's a picture of that

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very afternoon. Somebody, the guy next door in

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the warehouse space next door wanted a picture

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with the band for some reason. And I hadn't even

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been offered the position or whatever, you know,

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at the time. And they're like, you want a picture

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with the band? I kind of stood over the side

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and Brent's like, come on in, man. You know,

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so like I'm already taking pictures with the

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band at that point. But there's a picture from

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that day, which is of the four of us, which is

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interesting. So again, I guess that's just my

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way of saying our relationship started in the

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studio. Our relationship started in producing

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and writing. Now, as far as getting the trust

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of everybody, I mean, look, I got dropped into

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one of the most insane records in rock history,

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first of all, that I would love to take credit

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for, but I had nothing to do with. Chris Chaney

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played bass on the record. Not a slouch. No,

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not at all. So Diamond Eyes happened because

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Sylvester Stallone called the band and he said,

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hey, I'm looking for a band to write a song for

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this movie that I'm making called The Expendables.

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And here's a little bit about it. Here's what

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I want it to be. And he sent over this poem,

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and I forget the name of the poem, but the beats

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at the end of every verse would say, boom, lay,

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boom, lay, boom. And he's like, the only thing

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I want in the song is boom, lay, boom, lay, boom.

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That's how the boom, lay, boom, lay, boom thing

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happened in Diamond Eyes. It wasn't us. It was

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Sylvester Stallone. His idea. He wanted that

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from that poem. That poem ties into the movie.

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i just took it i was like challenge accepted

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like i didn't even ask any questions i was like

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we're gonna write this song this is gonna happen

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you know and so we're on tour and i recorded

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this music uh demo music on tour and then brent

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took the demo music to his hotel room wrote a

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couple things he and i got up together we wrote

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well zach came up with a guitar like by the way

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let me specify that that came up with a guitar

00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:22.730
like on stage at a sound check that boom wow

00:11:22.730 --> 00:11:28.019
that zach came up with that I took all that stuff,

00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.279
put it into a demo form. Brent took the music,

00:11:30.379 --> 00:11:32.639
wrote the lyrics. We had them figured out. I

00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:34.440
took the band back to Charleston on a break.

00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:38.940
We recorded all the music at my studio. And then

00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:41.919
Brent couldn't make it for that session. So we

00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.059
were back out on tour. We actually went to Johnny

00:11:44.059 --> 00:11:47.360
K, the producer Johnny K, who's produced Disturbed

00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.019
and Seven Dust and I think Chevelle. bunch of

00:11:51.019 --> 00:11:53.059
other people uh we were in chicago we went to

00:11:53.059 --> 00:11:54.940
his studio and he he produced the vocal he he

00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:57.360
recorded the vocals for that so uh we got in

00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:00.000
the studio with him and did the vocals and sent

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.179
it to uh chris lord algae to mix and diamond

00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:06.659
eyes was born and i think from there man it was

00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:09.200
just like you know look man this is what i was

00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.200
born to do you know i was born i was born to

00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.080
create in a studio that's what i mean if i was

00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.679
born to do one thing for better or worse for

00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:18.679
painful or not painful this is what i was made

00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:21.559
to do and and you know then it was just you talk

00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:22.960
about the trust thing there's a lot of trust

00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.019
in a writing relationship in a songwriting relationship

00:12:26.019 --> 00:12:29.440
you know and and you know you it takes a while

00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:30.960
to develop you know you have to get in a room

00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.460
with somebody and and really see what makes each

00:12:33.460 --> 00:12:36.179
other tick and see how the process works for

00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:38.139
the two of you together or the three of you together

00:12:38.139 --> 00:12:41.159
or the four of you together in some insane cases.

00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:42.879
That's insanity to me, four people in a room

00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.200
writing a song, but three at the most usually,

00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.980
but two preferably. But Brent and I had to get

00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:50.419
in a room and sort of figure that stuff out.

00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:52.860
And so when it came time to start writing for

00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.779
Amaryllis, I had a lot to learn about songwriting.

00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:01.100
I was used to being a big fish, small pond kind

00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:03.320
of thing, I guess. I was used to making decisions

00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.000
that I thought were great. and songwriting decisions,

00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:10.200
production decisions. And by the way, by this

00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.120
time, I mean, the band, we toured so much on

00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.000
Sound of Madness record. I believe it's not actually

00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.320
in the Guinness Book of World Records, but it

00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.779
is a record for the most shows played on one

00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:24.799
record cycle, I believe. It's like 400 and something

00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.080
shows we played on that record cycle, I believe.

00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.779
High 300s, low 400s, but it's a lot. And so by

00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:33.480
this time, we were all super close. I mean, there

00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:35.570
was no, you know. There's no way we didn't know

00:13:35.570 --> 00:13:38.070
each other by this point. But knowing each other

00:13:38.070 --> 00:13:39.629
in that way, even though we'd done Diamond Eyes,

00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:42.110
it was like, okay, was that a fluke? This number

00:13:42.110 --> 00:13:44.309
one song that had this slow burn at radio and

00:13:44.309 --> 00:13:48.730
it went on the extended edition, re -released

00:13:48.730 --> 00:13:50.929
edition of the Sound of Madness record is what

00:13:50.929 --> 00:13:54.450
that's on. So I got in a room with Brent and

00:13:54.450 --> 00:13:56.490
Dave Bassett first and we wrote some together

00:13:56.490 --> 00:14:00.309
and that went well. And then Brent and I wrote

00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:03.240
two or three songs with just the two of us. one

00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.080
of those songs was i'll follow you although dave

00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:08.159
ended up adding some some we added a bridge to

00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.860
that song when we got in the studio the whole

00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:12.240
lyrical bridge wasn't in the original demo so

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.360
dave got dave's a writer on that song but dave

00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.919
dave wrote the bridge but the song was pretty

00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:19.539
much in its other than that was in its finished

00:14:19.539 --> 00:14:21.879
form but i had a lot to learn because it was

00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:23.639
like i'm getting all this pushback on things

00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:24.960
i'm getting pushed back on lyrics i'm getting

00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.440
pushed back on music and all this stuff and i'm

00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.820
just not used to that and it became very difficult

00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:34.620
for me i'm i'm uh um I don't talk too often about

00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:39.080
my neurodivergence, but I've got ADHD, executive

00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.379
dysfunction, and autism, and just different aspects

00:14:42.379 --> 00:14:45.059
of those things. But I'm extremely rejection

00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:47.940
sensitive, right? And so that, that's, and it

00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.240
feels painful to me. Rejection is painful. It's

00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.000
like, it's like, it's this physical thing. It's

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.559
been like my whole life. I just never knew what

00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:56.419
to call it until I was, you know, sort of diagnosed

00:14:56.419 --> 00:14:59.500
more recently with this stuff, but man, that

00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:01.399
was just really super painful for me. So I had

00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.980
to, that, that began the beginnings of me really

00:15:03.980 --> 00:15:05.919
getting thick skin. Like I had to, I realized

00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:09.899
very quickly with songwriting. Here's another

00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:11.320
thing I was very used to. I was very used to

00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.519
every single thing that I worked on, every single

00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.460
thing that I wrote was precious and mattered

00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:17.419
and all of this stuff. And then you get into

00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:19.580
a writing session and you realize maybe this

00:15:19.580 --> 00:15:21.960
song isn't happening and people want to abandon

00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.580
it, that it's not like you're throwing your child

00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:25.399
away. It's like, no, we just need to move on.

00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:28.720
But it had this visceral effect on me. But that

00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.679
record writing process was a good process for

00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.279
Brent and my relationship as well as creators

00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:37.559
and learning how to create together. And then

00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:39.759
the band got really healthy. You know, Brent

00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:44.399
was able to get clean and we all got super healthy.

00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:46.919
Seemed healthy anyway on that touring cycle for

00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.179
Amaryllis. And then when we came off of that

00:15:50.179 --> 00:15:53.840
tour, Brent just hit a wall and crashed back

00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.559
into addiction. And my depression kicked in and

00:15:56.559 --> 00:15:59.820
I got a pill habit. out of that i started taking

00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:02.059
a lot of hydrocodone and just to feel better

00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:05.759
you know it made me feel invincible and and so

00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.480
we fell into this really bad place all of us

00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.460
in that writing cycle for threat to survival

00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:14.039
and i didn't do a lot of writing on that record

00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.259
i wrote two songs on that record one of was cut

00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:20.220
the cord which i produced as well and uh the

00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:22.360
other one was black cadillac yep the other song

00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:25.220
but then starting into that touring cycle we

00:16:25.220 --> 00:16:28.909
all had a very very big wake -up call and actually

00:16:28.909 --> 00:16:32.070
got healthy. Right in the beginning of that touring

00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:38.590
cycle. The spirit of this band really emerged

00:16:38.590 --> 00:16:41.970
during that time, I would say. The current spirit

00:16:41.970 --> 00:16:43.809
of this band anyway. What I would pin is our

00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:47.889
identity. That really enabled me to be way more

00:16:47.889 --> 00:16:50.710
creative in the band and to ultimately co -write

00:16:50.710 --> 00:16:53.389
most of Attention, Attention. There's some songs

00:16:53.389 --> 00:16:56.860
that I didn't write on that album. I love every

00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:58.500
song on that album, and I produced and mixed

00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:02.240
that album as well, and then into Planet Zero,

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.799
the last record, and now into this new Shinedown

00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:06.940
record that we're currently working on, the same

00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:09.220
thing. Interestingly enough, this new Shinedown

00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:10.839
record, the eighth Shinedown record, I'm actually

00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.279
more hands -off than I've been since over the

00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.720
last two, namely because of this record of my

00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.640
own that I'm rolling out right now. So, you know,

00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:21.299
Zach and Brent have been writing an awful lot

00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:24.319
on this record. I've written... quite a few songs

00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.539
i mean it's not like a not not existent or something

00:17:26.539 --> 00:17:28.920
but by way of comparison if i think about the

00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.240
the 24 songs that were written for planet zero

00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.440
that i wrote every single uh there's a writer

00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.440
on every single one of those songs i think on

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.720
you know so far on this record i'm i'm on like

00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.579
nine ten songs something like that you know so

00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:44.019
far uh we have some more writing to do but i've

00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:47.059
just been it's been it actually pretty painful

00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:49.740
to kind of not be able to do two things at once

00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:51.420
i wish i wish my brain worked like that but i

00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.599
have to be creatively i have to be doing one

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.720
thing at a time for that thing to be great whatever

00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:57.220
that is if i'm doing a shiny record that's all

00:17:57.220 --> 00:17:59.420
i'm doing if i'm doing an eric bass record and

00:17:59.420 --> 00:18:01.940
videos that's all i'm doing because something's

00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.000
going to suffer and so i've had to be in this

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.700
like video making promo land of rolling this

00:18:06.700 --> 00:18:10.099
record out. I had a name record. But again, no

00:18:10.099 --> 00:18:12.299
backseat's been taken. The interesting thing

00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.000
is, man, is those relationships that have been

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:18.660
forged in our band, in chaos and in love and

00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.559
in everything else, that stuff is never going

00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:23.759
to go away. Shinedown would make the most boring

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.059
reality show of all time. We all love each other.

00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.819
We all get along. We all support each other.

00:18:29.180 --> 00:18:32.150
I mean, the I had a name record is... out because

00:18:32.150 --> 00:18:35.130
my band encouraged me to put it out. Because

00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.069
I've been sitting on it for a while and I just

00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:39.890
wasn't sure I was going to release it. Just out

00:18:39.890 --> 00:18:44.670
of insecurities and everything else. I made it

00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:47.029
for myself. I recorded it purely for myself.

00:18:47.309 --> 00:18:50.390
I just love the fact that it existed. But they

00:18:50.390 --> 00:18:52.670
were like, man, you have to put this thing out.

00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:54.710
So yeah, I know maybe that's more than what you

00:18:54.710 --> 00:18:56.509
were asking about in your initial question. I

00:18:56.509 --> 00:18:58.930
kind of went through the timeline there. But

00:18:58.930 --> 00:19:02.750
yeah, my relationship with Shinedown was founded

00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:06.410
in the studio, not really on stage. And it continues

00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:08.710
to be where I'm more comfortable. My role in

00:19:08.710 --> 00:19:10.490
the studio with this band, I'm way more comfortable

00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:13.529
with than my role on stage, for sure. And that's

00:19:13.529 --> 00:19:15.869
something that you hear when you listen to the

00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:18.549
albums Attention, Attention and Planet Zero as

00:19:18.549 --> 00:19:21.549
you took on the full producer role on both of

00:19:21.549 --> 00:19:24.650
those albums. However, I have a name. The album

00:19:24.650 --> 00:19:27.329
that we're here to talk about today was actually

00:19:27.329 --> 00:19:29.910
written during the Attention, Attention tour

00:19:29.910 --> 00:19:33.630
as a graphic novel. Care to explain a little

00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:36.680
bit about how the graphic novel became? A solo

00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:39.440
album? Yeah, because I'm sadistic, that's how.

00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.000
Because I don't know how to just do one hard

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:45.500
thing. I got to do 12 hard things. Yeah, I was

00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:48.160
the first European tour for Attention to Tension,

00:19:48.259 --> 00:19:52.000
hotel room in Milan, Italy. I just got done with

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.900
a workout. I had listened to Biohazard's State

00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:59.339
of the World Address. Nice. A record that I...

00:19:59.579 --> 00:20:01.579
Love from back in the day that I hadn't listened

00:20:01.579 --> 00:20:04.359
to in a long time. Love that record, man. Love,

00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:07.000
love, love that record. Talk about a record that

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.380
puts me in a place. The State of the World Address

00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:13.099
puts me instantly in 1996, playing in hardcore

00:20:13.099 --> 00:20:16.000
bands and touring in bands. That's where my brain

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.740
goes. I still have the orange CD jewel case embedded

00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.019
in my brain. Yeah, dude. That was the thing,

00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.920
man. That record looked and sounded chaotic.

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:27.119
I love it. Still love it. But I hadn't listened

00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.019
to it in a while. when I did that workout. And

00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:30.359
I don't know if that has anything to do with

00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:31.960
this story, but I always preface it with that

00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.299
because maybe there's some, you know, maybe there

00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:36.960
was something to that. But I just got done listening

00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.680
to that, did a workout in the room and I had

00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.940
a voice. And I think a lot of people experience

00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:43.740
this, a voice in your head that maybe isn't yours,

00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:47.160
that guides you occasionally. And that voice

00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.039
said, you might want to write this down. And

00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.799
so I picked up my journal that I write all my

00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.420
lyrics in and stories in and started writing

00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:55.900
this story idea down for a comic book. And I've

00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:58.859
never been a comic book guy. That's the other

00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:00.779
interesting thing about it. In fact, the next

00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:03.859
day I called Eric Rickert, who is my, one of

00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:05.380
my best friends in the world. And it's always

00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:07.779
been my help here at the studio, my assistant

00:21:07.779 --> 00:21:10.440
engineer here at the studio or main engineer,

00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.400
depending on the day. But he's a comic book fanatic.

00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.640
Like still gets, you know, every month gets deliveries

00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.680
to the house and reads, reads them, knows all

00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.759
the storylines and everything. And I was like,

00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.039
I just started grilling him about comics because

00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.480
I like graphic novels. I was like, what do I

00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:25.400
need to read graphic novel wise? Because like

00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.039
I, for some reason. I was told to write this

00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:29.839
idea down that I'm supposed to make this graphic

00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.460
novel. I know that sounds woo -woo to people

00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:33.200
who don't understand it, but anybody who's ever

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.980
had something from beyond tell them something,

00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.759
that's just what it was. It was like, okay, I'm

00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.759
supposed to do this thing. And so I called him

00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:44.599
like, what should I read? What should I get into?

00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:46.960
And he gave me some, because I'm obsessed with

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.799
story. I wanted the story to be good. I wanted

00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.579
to see what do you think are some of the best

00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:52.339
graphic novel stories out there? And he mentioned

00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:54.500
Saga. Saga was one of them. And I read Saga and

00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:56.849
it's excellent. But I just like to know, what

00:21:56.849 --> 00:21:59.049
world am I getting ready to play in? What is

00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:01.269
this about? Not the story. What is this whole

00:22:01.269 --> 00:22:04.410
thing about? What's going on right now? Why a

00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:06.549
graphic novel? Why is that what it's supposed

00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:09.430
to be? But instantaneously, man, I saw visuals.

00:22:10.130 --> 00:22:12.289
Instantly. I just saw characters and visuals

00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:15.609
and scenes. And interestingly enough, what I

00:22:15.609 --> 00:22:17.150
wrote down ended up being sort of the prequel

00:22:17.150 --> 00:22:20.220
story to the story I'm telling. I will be telling

00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:22.240
in the graphic novel and I tell on the record.

00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:24.480
Because as I started developing characters, I

00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.079
started seeing these side characters that were

00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:29.160
like, they're more interesting to me. And I picked

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.799
those characters up. That's why it took a long

00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.420
time because I started working on this kind of

00:22:32.420 --> 00:22:34.980
first part of the story. And then these other

00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:37.559
two characters in particular just raised their

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.680
hand and were like, we're super interesting.

00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.839
And so then I kind of started from scratch with

00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.460
them and started writing this graphic novel.

00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.970
And it's well on its way. Act one is completely

00:22:48.970 --> 00:22:52.690
written. Act two and three are there, just not

00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:55.089
finished. And then somewhere along the way with

00:22:55.089 --> 00:22:57.250
that, I had these pieces of music that I was

00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:59.529
toying around with just on tour on that attention

00:22:59.529 --> 00:23:01.089
to attention cycle. And I remember going to Brent

00:23:01.089 --> 00:23:04.069
and I said, hey man, are you in any headspace

00:23:04.069 --> 00:23:06.630
to start working on a new Shinedown record? And

00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:08.170
he said, absolutely not. He does not like to

00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:09.829
write on tour. But I had to ask him. I said,

00:23:09.829 --> 00:23:12.369
well, I've got these pieces of music that they're

00:23:12.369 --> 00:23:13.690
pretty different. They would either make the

00:23:13.690 --> 00:23:16.009
most different Shinedown record of all time or...

00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.119
I need to use them for this thing. I've got an

00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.299
idea for them. And he's like, go do your thing.

00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:22.900
He's like, I won't be ready to write for another

00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:26.299
year. So that's kind of where the genesis of

00:23:26.299 --> 00:23:27.900
the record started. And I started writing these

00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:30.000
lyrics about these characters and these stories

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.460
about these characters in song form. And what

00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:36.039
the record is, what I had a name is, it's chronological

00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:37.859
in nature. I mean, it's going from the beginning

00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:40.680
of the story to the end of the story. But it's

00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.269
just scenes from. It's not really telling. you

00:23:43.269 --> 00:23:45.130
exactly what's happening is i was pulling out

00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:47.410
the same thing i do when i'm writing other songs

00:23:47.410 --> 00:23:49.470
like you know if i have something in my head

00:23:49.470 --> 00:23:50.910
a scene that i feel like is interesting something

00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:52.609
i saw or experienced that i want to write about

00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:55.210
that's what i do and so i just did the same thing

00:23:55.210 --> 00:23:58.089
with these fictitious stories and characters

00:23:58.089 --> 00:24:03.450
and i found it very very easy to write lyrically

00:24:03.450 --> 00:24:05.880
very easy to write All of these songs were very

00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.240
easy to write. I mean, I'm not saying there weren't

00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:10.039
moments like you have with every song where you

00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:11.819
have to sit and kind of figure out, like, I need

00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:14.019
an I rhyme and I can't figure out what it is.

00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.099
And maybe the I rhyme isn't there, so you have

00:24:16.099 --> 00:24:17.960
to change the word before it to an E rhyme so

00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.759
you can say the E word here. That kind of stuff.

00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.680
I'm not talking about that sort of logistical

00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.019
part of songwriting. I'm talking about just the

00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:27.759
subject, everything pouring out was happening

00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:31.259
very naturally. At some point I was listening

00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:34.059
back to one of the songs, a song called Good

00:24:34.059 --> 00:24:35.779
Night, Good Night. It's the fifth track on the

00:24:35.779 --> 00:24:38.099
record. And it's very personal to me. It's probably

00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.240
one of the more personal songs on the record.

00:24:40.779 --> 00:24:44.380
And I realized, you ever have one of those moments

00:24:44.380 --> 00:24:47.240
where you have a shocking thought or a shocking

00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.680
revelation about something and you get ice through

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.799
your veins? That shocking thing. And I had that

00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.359
happen. I was like, oh my God. I've written the

00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:00.150
most autobiographical record of my career. or

00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:02.210
I am writing the most autobiographical record

00:25:02.210 --> 00:25:04.230
of my career through these characters. You're

00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:05.849
not just talking about these characters, you're

00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:08.049
talking about yourself. Every single one of these

00:25:08.049 --> 00:25:11.109
songs is from you, from your childhood, from

00:25:11.109 --> 00:25:13.509
your current life, from your depression, from

00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:16.329
whatever. And what that really did for me is

00:25:16.329 --> 00:25:19.710
that enriched the record because it made... Now

00:25:19.710 --> 00:25:22.390
I just didn't have characters anymore. I had

00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:25.140
characters that were representative of... pieces

00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.980
of me and pieces of... And I realized that in

00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:29.799
a lot of cases when writers are writing, they're

00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:33.160
doing that. Everything that you make is a piece

00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.220
of you. But this was a lot more literal, like

00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.940
where I could look at a character like Devarin,

00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.819
who is the dictator who has taken over this world.

00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.539
He's the main character in the Mind Control song

00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:49.400
and video, first single. And he represents all

00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.579
of the chaos and depression and everything that

00:25:51.579 --> 00:25:54.609
crept in and took over my brain. If you take

00:25:54.609 --> 00:25:56.150
this world that we're living in as my brain,

00:25:56.309 --> 00:25:59.109
then he's the thing that came in and took over.

00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:01.630
There's another character named Jeff, and Jeff

00:26:01.630 --> 00:26:04.250
is this ancient Titan protector. He's one of

00:26:04.250 --> 00:26:06.089
the former protectors of this world. He's actually

00:26:06.089 --> 00:26:07.809
the main character in the prequel stories. He

00:26:07.809 --> 00:26:09.990
was my first character, my first Genesis character

00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:13.470
that I had for this. And he was what's called

00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:15.670
a dark eater, and the dark eaters ate all of

00:26:15.670 --> 00:26:17.539
the darkness in this world. And here you go.

00:26:17.619 --> 00:26:19.119
I'm writing this story not even thinking about

00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.220
depression at all, but here I am writing this

00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:24.640
whole thing about it. Even that far back, these

00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.480
titans called Dark Eaters, and they would consume

00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.740
all of the darkness of this world and filter

00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:32.920
it out. And Dvarin came along and killed all

00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:35.440
of the Dark Eaters, at least he thought. Jeff

00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.579
is the one that's left. And Jeff represents that

00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:41.039
former protection that you used to have in childhood.

00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.259
At some point, I was a blissfully ignorant, happy

00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:49.480
child. and didn't deal with these thoughts. And

00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.720
I didn't ruminate on my mental state so much.

00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:55.460
And at some point, that thing came in and took

00:26:55.460 --> 00:26:58.440
it over. And so I have a character named Azalea.

00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.680
And Azalea, she basically fights against the

00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.140
fact that she's supposed to be this religious

00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:06.319
figure. And she's supposed to be this spiritual

00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.839
religious figure, but she's taken on the role

00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:12.240
of this assassin. And so if I look at her and

00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:13.900
what I'm writing about with her, it's this journey

00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:18.359
of faith. my journey back to faith from not having

00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:20.880
it to rediscovering it. And so there's all this

00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.079
depth to this record that, again, it was kind

00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:24.920
of shocking for me to realize what I was writing

00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.599
about. When I'm writing in the song Azalea and

00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:30.599
I'm singing in the bridge of this song, it gets

00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.980
quiet. And I'm supposed to be her, maybe her

00:27:33.980 --> 00:27:36.259
conscience or something, talking to her or singing

00:27:36.259 --> 00:27:38.380
to her. And I'm just telling her not to give

00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:43.400
up. You can't give up. Even when not till there's

00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.599
no more breath in your lungs. when all is lost

00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:49.319
even past all is lost until until there's no

00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.559
other option left you don't give up and you know

00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.519
you realize that like that's that thing in my

00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:57.359
brain that keeps me going too and so it's just

00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:58.980
been you know starting with this graphic novel

00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:01.539
idea into this record then having that realization

00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:04.720
made the writing of the rest of the graphic novel

00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.299
not that and again nowhere in this graphic novel

00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:09.079
or in this record does it talk about depression

00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.599
or does it talk about darkness or rather rather

00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.140
internal darkness or neurodivergence or any of

00:28:15.140 --> 00:28:18.000
these things, they're representative of those

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.380
things, unintentionally representative of those

00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:22.059
things. But what it did was when I went back

00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:24.019
into the book writing and into the graphic novel

00:28:24.019 --> 00:28:26.400
writing, it just gave me so much more insight

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.819
into the characters and it made the writing of

00:28:29.819 --> 00:28:33.900
the story so much more rich and enriching for

00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:39.000
me as well. Well, you've always been open about

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.319
your struggles with depression and it's come

00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:43.420
out through the band's music. And it's something

00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:47.920
that I personally admire of you as well as the

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.700
band, because there are songs like get up or

00:28:51.700 --> 00:28:55.160
a symptom of being human. These are songs that

00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:57.900
speak to me. I'm someone who myself has been

00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:00.839
dealing with anxiety and battling that monster

00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:05.759
for years and maybe decades and songs like that.

00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:08.789
I use for strength and comfort. When I get in

00:29:08.789 --> 00:29:11.609
my head, they bring me balance and they keep

00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.609
me grounded because sometimes with my struggles,

00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:17.049
I feel like I'm alone on an Island. And these

00:29:17.049 --> 00:29:19.269
are songs that when I hear lyrics like that,

00:29:19.369 --> 00:29:22.890
they speak to me as a fan. And I know that, you

00:29:22.890 --> 00:29:24.630
know what, we don't know each other personally,

00:29:24.630 --> 00:29:27.690
but through this song, I know I'm not alone.

00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:32.529
And from the first lyrics in, in a world unseen,

00:29:33.529 --> 00:29:36.869
You announce in here, we're all a little bent.

00:29:36.890 --> 00:29:39.569
We're all a little twisted and we're all a little

00:29:39.569 --> 00:29:42.970
broken right from the jump in this situation.

00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:45.450
I feel like even though you're saying that the

00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:48.450
album's not about mental health, it spoke to

00:29:48.450 --> 00:29:50.509
me that way. And when I listened to the album,

00:29:50.569 --> 00:29:54.049
I actually felt that presence in these songs.

00:29:54.109 --> 00:29:56.430
Was that something that you were looking to achieve

00:29:56.430 --> 00:29:58.660
with that? no that that's why i'm so astonished

00:29:58.660 --> 00:30:00.380
when i said i had that moment of like realization

00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:02.740
where it shocked me was that when i wrote those

00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:04.940
lyrics in here we're all a little bit we're all

00:30:04.940 --> 00:30:06.579
twisted we're all a little broken or when i'm

00:30:06.579 --> 00:30:08.339
inviting people in a world unseen welcome to

00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:11.039
a world unseen where i'm told the sky moves under

00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.099
me like it's upside down you know a place where

00:30:13.099 --> 00:30:15.440
reason has no sound and i swear that god's gone

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.859
underground i was writing about this world right

00:30:18.859 --> 00:30:21.539
all those lyrics were written prior to that realization

00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:24.720
and then I'm listening to Good Night, Good Night.

00:30:24.819 --> 00:30:26.640
And what Good Night, Good Night is about is about

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.559
leaving that child that you were. Because I don't

00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.160
long to be a child again, but I'm enamored that

00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:37.220
I had this moment in my life when depression

00:30:37.220 --> 00:30:40.559
wasn't a part of it. What happened? What took

00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:42.740
place that brought this in? Because if I could

00:30:42.740 --> 00:30:45.960
pick that piece of my brain out and throw it

00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:50.000
away forever... I always said I would. Creatively,

00:30:50.099 --> 00:30:51.960
it's something that makes me tick. So I don't

00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.240
know if I would throw it away. But look, when

00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.880
I'm down in it, I want to pull that piece of

00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:58.140
my brain out and just eject it and get rid of

00:30:58.140 --> 00:31:00.900
it because it is beating me about the head. It

00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.279
will not leave me alone. So I think back to what

00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:06.759
happened to that child, what happened to that

00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:10.039
young guy that didn't have to deal with this.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.240
And so Good Night, Good Night, in essence, again,

00:31:14.910 --> 00:31:16.789
This was the realization as I'm writing about

00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:18.930
this character. The hook at the end of the chorus

00:31:18.930 --> 00:31:20.769
says, I hope you're standing arm in arm with

00:31:20.769 --> 00:31:22.369
the things that did you harm. And I hope that

00:31:22.369 --> 00:31:24.410
you have a good night. Meaning just, you know,

00:31:24.410 --> 00:31:27.049
I hope that you're still happy, you know, and

00:31:27.049 --> 00:31:28.849
even the things that harmed you, you're still

00:31:28.849 --> 00:31:32.410
okay with. But then realizing that like, no,

00:31:32.509 --> 00:31:35.390
I'm talking about myself. So having that realization

00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:38.470
after the fact of like, no, I didn't intend to

00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:41.390
write that down as meaning in here, we're all

00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:43.109
a little bent, we're all twisted, we're all a

00:31:43.109 --> 00:31:45.880
little broken. Now I can't hear it any other

00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.460
way. I still see the characters. It's still about

00:31:48.460 --> 00:31:50.920
the characters. It's still about the story. But

00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:54.299
realizing that this world that I've created,

00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.359
that these characters live on, this world called

00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.660
PAR, P -A -R. Look, I wish I could come up with

00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:01.480
better names, but sometimes when the universe

00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:03.420
speaks to you and says, your world is called

00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:07.559
PAR, you just go with it. But that is my brain

00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.859
at the end of the day. I'm writing about this

00:32:09.859 --> 00:32:13.000
world that is my brain. and my soul and my heart

00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.200
and and uh it's not just brain it's it's way

00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.259
more than that but it was all completely unintentional

00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:21.680
and it's why when i'm when i'm when i'm doing

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.180
uh and again i'm the world's worst business person

00:32:25.180 --> 00:32:27.619
i'm i'm a creative through and through and when

00:32:27.619 --> 00:32:29.779
it comes to the business side of things how to

00:32:29.779 --> 00:32:32.160
market i'm horrible i'm just terrible at i can

00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:33.460
make the donuts but i don't really know how to

00:32:33.460 --> 00:32:36.380
sell the donuts so i'm terrible at selling the

00:32:36.380 --> 00:32:39.039
donuts so when we were talking about I was filling

00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:41.740
in the team, my management team and the people

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:44.299
at 1RPM who are the distribution company and

00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:47.220
I'm publicist about the record, they all latched

00:32:47.220 --> 00:32:50.099
onto the depression neurodivergent. This record

00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.160
was written about... And I had to stop and say,

00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:54.099
no, it was not written about that. That's why

00:32:54.099 --> 00:32:56.000
I don't lead with that normally, because it's

00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:57.140
like, I don't want people to think that, oh,

00:32:57.180 --> 00:32:58.819
I set out to write this record and I just made

00:32:58.819 --> 00:33:01.200
them characters. No, that's not what happened.

00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.279
I'm writing about these characters. These characters

00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:05.519
are genuine. They're real. The story exists.

00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:09.230
It is what it is. It's just that I was writing

00:33:09.230 --> 00:33:12.369
so honestly about the subject matter that, and

00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:14.509
I didn't realize how much of myself I was pouring

00:33:14.509 --> 00:33:16.720
into this thing. And then when it was finished,

00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:19.099
it's like, oh, wow, man, you've just bared it

00:33:19.099 --> 00:33:21.640
all out here through these characters. And here's

00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.119
the interesting thing about that is some people

00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:26.019
will listen to it and maybe not get that wholly.

00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:27.599
They won't understand, well, in this song, what

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.740
is this about? What does this mean? That's good.

00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:31.720
I don't want it to be a distraction when people

00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:33.180
are listening to the record. I don't want them

00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:36.880
thinking, oh, this is Eric having a sad dad moment.

00:33:36.940 --> 00:33:38.359
He just wrote this record about being depressed.

00:33:38.619 --> 00:33:41.480
No, man, it's not at all. Ultimately, the story...

00:33:41.769 --> 00:33:43.950
This record and this book are just the first

00:33:43.950 --> 00:33:46.190
of four books that are going to be written and

00:33:46.190 --> 00:33:47.630
told. I don't know if I'll do a record for every

00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:50.009
single one, but ultimately at the end of that

00:33:50.009 --> 00:33:52.710
story, there's triumph down the road, but you

00:33:52.710 --> 00:33:54.529
got to start somewhere, you know, and right now

00:33:54.529 --> 00:33:56.069
we're in the, you know, you got to start in the

00:33:56.069 --> 00:33:58.029
darkness to get to the light. But yeah, man,

00:33:58.069 --> 00:34:01.069
I hope that people listen to it and can pull

00:34:01.069 --> 00:34:03.650
something from it that will be helpful to them.

00:34:03.690 --> 00:34:06.809
Because at the end of the day, I realized as

00:34:06.809 --> 00:34:09.980
I've gotten older that... you know my job on

00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:11.840
earth isn't to be a musician my job is to help

00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.639
people and it's really something i'm passionate

00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.960
about and i only really know one way to do that

00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.699
to help people and that's just through the silly

00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:22.780
little things that i make you know whatever that

00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:25.260
is whether it's a song or a video or a album

00:34:25.260 --> 00:34:27.420
or and and somebody won't say it's silly but

00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:29.460
i like calling them myself my silly little things

00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:32.079
you know because it is it's playtime man it's

00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.340
it's frivolous you know it's it's insane that

00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:36.780
a 50 year old man can make a living making songs

00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:40.639
but that's you know that's what we do so i would

00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.360
be dishonest if i didn't talk about those things

00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:46.500
because part of me look at one point i was like

00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:49.000
maybe i shouldn't even bring this up about Because

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.800
I don't want it to distract from the story or

00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.280
from the record. But I realized how important

00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:55.400
these things are. And there's not enough hope

00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:57.440
in the world. There's a lot of hope, but there's

00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.760
not enough of it. And so if someone can listen

00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.840
to a song like A World Unseen or All Good Children

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.840
or Goodnight Goodnight or Can't Go Home, if they

00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.360
can listen to those things and pull something,

00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:10.880
mind control, if they can pull something out

00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.059
of it that helps them with what they're going

00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:14.599
through, then that's what matters. And so that's

00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.800
why I thought that it was probably pretty important

00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:18.869
to talk about. Maybe not to lead with it, but

00:35:18.869 --> 00:35:21.409
to talk about it for sure. Well, you had talked

00:35:21.409 --> 00:35:23.769
about mind control earlier. I want to play a

00:35:23.769 --> 00:35:26.050
clip of that as that was the song that was chosen

00:35:26.050 --> 00:35:28.550
as the first single and video for the album.

00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:50.340
I was just a lad I knew what I'd become I knew

00:35:50.340 --> 00:36:57.719
what I'd become Now, I've always wondered about

00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:00.900
the mindset of a single from within a concept

00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:03.820
album, because while I love hearing individual

00:37:03.820 --> 00:37:07.659
songs, let's use Planet Zero or Dead Don't Die

00:37:07.659 --> 00:37:10.960
from Planet Zero or Devil or the Human Radio

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:14.079
from Attention Attention. As much as I love listening

00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.039
to them when they come on shuffle, I feel like

00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.909
they hit harder. When you listen to the album

00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:23.070
as a whole, maybe that's just me getting the

00:37:23.070 --> 00:37:25.690
quote unquote full experience of the song from

00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:28.929
the artist's vision. But with that said, was

00:37:28.929 --> 00:37:31.469
it a challenge for you to decide which of these

00:37:31.469 --> 00:37:34.309
songs would be the best representation of the

00:37:34.309 --> 00:37:37.550
album in the months leading up to this release?

00:37:39.530 --> 00:37:42.289
Months, try days. There was no single written

00:37:42.289 --> 00:37:46.650
for this record. So this has been its own dark

00:37:46.650 --> 00:37:50.059
comedy. in and of itself this single picking

00:37:50.059 --> 00:37:54.199
business for this record because unlike a shinedown

00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:56.340
record i can listen to the songs that we have

00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:58.300
written before we've ever recorded them for a

00:37:58.300 --> 00:38:00.679
shine down record and go that's a single that's

00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:02.559
a single that's a single that's a single that's

00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:05.280
a single for sure sometimes all of them have

00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:07.360
potential to be singles if we've been blessed

00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:11.500
right but with this record i intentionally just

00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:13.380
said i'm not worried about time i'm not worried

00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:15.880
about Don't bore us, get to the chorus. I'm not

00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.300
worried about any of that stuff. I'm just going

00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:21.179
to write these pieces of music that maybe take

00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:23.139
a left turn here and come back. Maybe they take

00:38:23.139 --> 00:38:26.039
a right turn and never come back. I'm just going

00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:27.599
to write these songs and they're just going to

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.280
be what they are. I want to make pieces of art.

00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:31.000
I just want to make music. That's all I want

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:32.960
to do. And so that's how I went about this whole

00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.880
record. Then when I finally decided to release

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:37.760
the record, which actually wasn't that long ago,

00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:41.639
I said days, not months. It was only a few months

00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:43.420
ago that I decided that I was really going to...

00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.760
go at this in earnest. I'd say probably, honestly,

00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:49.300
probably July, but the record was finished. So

00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:51.019
that was, that's a big part of it now. But, but

00:38:51.019 --> 00:38:52.699
then the question of single came up and I was

00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:54.039
like, you know, I've never thought about it.

00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:55.460
I never thought about this going to radio. I

00:38:55.460 --> 00:38:56.719
never thought about this having to be on playlists

00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.300
or yeah, I just thought about people listening

00:38:58.300 --> 00:38:59.820
to the record beginning to end. That's what it's

00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:03.579
about. And so I couldn't pick it. I thought maybe

00:39:03.579 --> 00:39:05.500
a song called Azalea would be the single, but

00:39:05.500 --> 00:39:08.980
it's a little long, you know, for a single for

00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:12.309
certain people that you have to placate. But

00:39:12.309 --> 00:39:14.070
I'm not going to edit it. I don't want to edit

00:39:14.070 --> 00:39:15.449
any of these songs. I don't want to pull anything

00:39:15.449 --> 00:39:17.889
out of it. If I were to pull the middle of Azalea

00:39:17.889 --> 00:39:20.369
out, it's just another rock song. I love the

00:39:20.369 --> 00:39:22.309
fact that it has this piano interlude thing in

00:39:22.309 --> 00:39:24.170
the middle, and it's what makes the song itself.

00:39:24.829 --> 00:39:26.929
So I sent the record around to a bunch of friends

00:39:26.929 --> 00:39:29.510
and other business, I say business people, that's

00:39:29.510 --> 00:39:30.929
a terrible way to put them, people in our camp

00:39:30.929 --> 00:39:33.570
who I'm very close to, and just said, hey, let

00:39:33.570 --> 00:39:34.949
me know what you think the single is. And everybody

00:39:34.949 --> 00:39:37.110
came back with a different answer. Brent thought

00:39:37.110 --> 00:39:39.750
a song called New Graves was the single. I thought

00:39:39.750 --> 00:39:42.030
Azalea was the single. Some other people thought

00:39:42.030 --> 00:39:44.750
Goodnight Goodnight was a single. All Good Children

00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:47.730
got thrown out there and Mind Control. Ultimately,

00:39:48.809 --> 00:39:50.510
everyone's saying, there were a couple of songs

00:39:50.510 --> 00:39:51.849
that were outliers that no one talked about.

00:39:52.750 --> 00:39:54.469
so then we had to have a call and it's like what

00:39:54.469 --> 00:39:56.269
are we what are we doing like this is i don't

00:39:56.269 --> 00:39:58.570
i don't know i i was almost like take this out

00:39:58.570 --> 00:40:00.570
of my hands because i don't know what the single

00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:02.110
is like i've told you that from the beginning

00:40:02.110 --> 00:40:04.489
like i love all of these songs let's just find

00:40:04.489 --> 00:40:07.110
one and everyone thought that that it came down

00:40:07.110 --> 00:40:09.710
to azalea or mind control and Everyone thought

00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:10.869
mind control was a lot more straightforward.

00:40:11.489 --> 00:40:13.550
The song starts immediately with the lyric and

00:40:13.550 --> 00:40:17.150
it's high energy. And so that's how it happened,

00:40:17.250 --> 00:40:19.570
man. I mean, I wish there was some sexy way to

00:40:19.570 --> 00:40:22.170
put it, but it's like I've had just as much trouble

00:40:22.170 --> 00:40:25.849
figuring this out as anybody else. And I was

00:40:25.849 --> 00:40:28.050
in the midst of making the videos too, and I

00:40:28.050 --> 00:40:31.250
had to stop and I'm directing the videos and

00:40:31.250 --> 00:40:33.789
editing the videos and everything. So I had to

00:40:33.789 --> 00:40:37.030
make the mind control video. And I think it confused

00:40:37.030 --> 00:40:39.519
people because again, One thing you learn in

00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:42.059
the record business is there is no perfect plan.

00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:45.420
You just do it. Just put something out. Don't

00:40:45.420 --> 00:40:47.599
think about it too much. Don't try to be too

00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.579
calculated. If you're too calculated, it'll all

00:40:49.579 --> 00:40:51.860
fall apart. So this whole rolling out mind control,

00:40:51.940 --> 00:40:54.460
while not perfect in my mind, it's like, okay,

00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:55.920
that's what we're doing. We're rolling out mind

00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.300
control. Well, the WAL and Legion, which is like

00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:00.920
the two entities that make up the government

00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:03.519
in my world, their logo is that purple diamond

00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:07.280
looking thing. And so that... Devarn's video

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.480
is purple. Like that's every, every character's

00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.219
video has a color. And so I was like, man, we're,

00:41:12.219 --> 00:41:14.199
we're rolling right back out with the planet

00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:16.000
zero colors. You know, it's like, people are

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.059
going to think like, A, they're going to be confused

00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:19.800
or B, they're going to think that we're not that

00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.159
creative or I'm not that creative, but that's

00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.340
why purple again. So again, not in a perfect

00:41:24.340 --> 00:41:27.019
world, not, not what I would have done, but through

00:41:27.019 --> 00:41:28.679
this record making process and just trying to

00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.539
make the right decisions. I talked earlier about

00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:33.960
coming back into my faith and, and this is my

00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.579
father passed away. you know picked back up the

00:41:36.579 --> 00:41:38.960
bible and and got back into my faith and one

00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:40.639
thing i did with with this record was i just

00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:42.440
said ask for god's help with it i was like because

00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:43.679
i didn't know what to do i didn't know how to

00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.260
how to do it i was like hey i'll do the work

00:41:45.260 --> 00:41:47.039
please you know of course i'm gonna do the work

00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.139
but i'm putting this in your hands you just leave

00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:52.619
me leave me around and so when mind control is

00:41:52.619 --> 00:41:53.940
just supposed to be the first single that's what

00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:56.059
it is i'm not questioning anything at all there's

00:41:56.059 --> 00:41:57.559
a lot of peace in that man a lot of peace and

00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:00.599
not questioning and just doing and so uh because

00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:02.380
believe me man this especially the video making

00:42:02.380 --> 00:42:05.699
process has tried to fall apart a couple of times,

00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:07.320
you know, like pretty hard. And it's just like,

00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.239
I just pivot something up and pivot back to something

00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.280
else. And there's a lot of peace in that of just

00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:14.719
knowing that I put this in a higher power's hands

00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.260
and that there's no wrong answers. It's just

00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:18.940
doing the thing. I'll give you a perfect example.

00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:21.659
The mind control video, I didn't realize until

00:42:21.659 --> 00:42:25.760
three days ago when I put headphones on, was

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.159
in mono. How about that? Everybody's been listening

00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:31.019
to the video in mono and I didn't know it. And...

00:42:31.289 --> 00:42:34.710
That would have spun me out before. Like a couple

00:42:34.710 --> 00:42:36.929
of years ago, I would be like, ah, you know,

00:42:36.989 --> 00:42:38.730
this is in mono. Oh my God, we got to fix this.

00:42:39.389 --> 00:42:41.710
I just very calmly went in and found, it was

00:42:41.710 --> 00:42:43.869
my mistake, found out what had happened. It wasn't

00:42:43.869 --> 00:42:45.469
my mistake. It was something that had happened

00:42:45.469 --> 00:42:48.349
in an import that I didn't catch. I hate it when

00:42:48.349 --> 00:42:51.590
that happens. Somehow it had imported, instead

00:42:51.590 --> 00:42:53.210
of importing a left channel and a right channel,

00:42:53.250 --> 00:42:55.570
it imported two left channels. Oh, wow. Yeah,

00:42:55.630 --> 00:42:58.409
very, very strange. So left and left, which is

00:42:58.409 --> 00:42:59.989
better than left and right down the middle, but

00:42:59.989 --> 00:43:03.190
left and left. So probably why it still sounded

00:43:03.190 --> 00:43:04.469
pretty good. It's probably why I didn't notice

00:43:04.469 --> 00:43:05.929
it. There's nothing phasey about it coming through

00:43:05.929 --> 00:43:08.989
my speakers. I didn't think about it. But I just

00:43:08.989 --> 00:43:11.389
very calmly went in, rebounced another audio

00:43:11.389 --> 00:43:14.070
file and called the team like, hey, can we get

00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:16.510
YouTube to let us upload another? I don't know

00:43:16.510 --> 00:43:17.530
if they fixed it yet or not, but it's in the

00:43:17.530 --> 00:43:20.050
process. But just something like that, man, just

00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:22.769
being more at peace with things maybe not going

00:43:22.769 --> 00:43:24.969
the way that I think they should go. because

00:43:24.969 --> 00:43:27.889
you realize that, again, I feel like I'm here

00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:31.909
to help people. And so whatever I have to do

00:43:31.909 --> 00:43:33.809
to make that happen, there is no fire to get

00:43:33.809 --> 00:43:35.570
to. There's no reason to get angry about things

00:43:35.570 --> 00:43:37.469
like that. I mean, I get frustrated, of course,

00:43:37.510 --> 00:43:40.050
I'm a human, but I'm not a monk, you know, but

00:43:40.050 --> 00:43:44.539
it's been very calming to kind of release. a

00:43:44.539 --> 00:43:46.280
record this way and just sort of not have it

00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:48.840
have to have all of this gravity around it. That's

00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:50.659
what tends to happen when you're releasing records

00:43:50.659 --> 00:43:53.260
and big projects is all this gravity and seriousness

00:43:53.260 --> 00:43:55.860
to it. And it's like, I'm very serious about

00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.760
this. I've spent a lot of time and a lot of effort

00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:00.480
on it. I've spent a lot of money to put this

00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.139
thing out, but it doesn't feel like that. It

00:44:03.139 --> 00:44:05.980
feels like it's just, this is... what it's supposed

00:44:05.980 --> 00:44:08.079
to be it feels it's very calming it's almost

00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:10.139
off -putting for me in a way like personally

00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:12.079
to feel this way because it's like this isn't

00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:13.500
how it's supposed to be it's supposed to be chaotic

00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:16.119
and you know it just it just hasn't been that

00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:19.139
but that sort of calming stuff started with the

00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:21.559
single it was like yeah man there is no wrong

00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:25.500
answer like cool mind control is the single i

00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:26.960
wish i wish i had a sexy answer i was like i

00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:28.739
knew from the beginning that was the single no

00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:30.179
man i didn't know from the beginning i'm still

00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:32.199
not sure i don't even know if it's the best song

00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:35.489
on the record but it's there I happen to love

00:44:35.489 --> 00:44:37.789
the album. I have a favorite on the album. If

00:44:37.789 --> 00:44:39.610
I could throw it out there and play a clip from

00:44:39.610 --> 00:44:42.630
that one, it's actually, I'll say one of my favorites

00:44:42.630 --> 00:44:45.309
on the album because there's a couple that are

00:44:45.309 --> 00:44:47.969
kind of vying for that top spot, but you talked

00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:50.730
about it before. Let's play a clip from Azalea.

00:45:59.980 --> 00:46:03.260
To me, what stands out about this song is the

00:46:03.260 --> 00:46:05.960
dynamics in it. There are several different musical

00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:08.579
tones throughout this 4 minutes and 20 second

00:46:08.579 --> 00:46:12.460
runtime. The open almost feels like this whimsical,

00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:16.480
swirling dream sequence. The chorus is fucking

00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.940
pummeling. Pardon my language there, but it is.

00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:21.400
And then you have the melodic bridge you talked

00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.820
about earlier. But it all feels... perfectly

00:46:24.820 --> 00:46:27.039
at home together and i think the reason for that

00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:28.719
and this is something i would love to ask you

00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:32.760
as you're a producer as well as a musician there's

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.550
actual dynamics in this song The loudness wars

00:46:36.550 --> 00:46:39.769
aren't happening here. When you're quiet with

00:46:39.769 --> 00:46:43.070
just your voice and a piano, the song is quieter.

00:46:43.250 --> 00:46:47.289
It's not as loud as when the entire band is playing

00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:49.909
and it's a heavy, mountainous, thunderous part

00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:53.469
of the song. There's actual dynamics in the music.

00:46:53.710 --> 00:46:56.449
As a producer, I'd love to know your thoughts

00:46:56.449 --> 00:46:59.050
on is that something that you were looking to

00:46:59.050 --> 00:47:02.889
do? Because I know in modern rock music, everybody's

00:47:02.889 --> 00:47:05.460
trying to push towards louder is better. because

00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:08.420
of earbuds. But there are people out there that

00:47:08.420 --> 00:47:11.579
genuinely care about dynamics and sound. And

00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:13.219
as a producer, I'd love to know your thoughts

00:47:13.219 --> 00:47:18.480
on that. Yeah. I mean, for me, emotion has always

00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.480
been in the dynamics. Even in a loud song, I

00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:22.880
want the chorus to be a little louder than the

00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:27.659
verses. And I've, I wish I said, I haven't, you

00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:29.679
know, I've developed a sense for that stuff over

00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:31.420
the years and I've developed a technical way

00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:35.119
of making it happen in a mix. that if anyone

00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.500
is curious about it, if they ever want to ask

00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:40.159
me, I'm happy to divulge. I don't have any secrets.

00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:45.159
But it just involves, and I'm sure I'm not, I

00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:46.320
know I'm not the only person that does this,

00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.960
but it involves working the master fader on the

00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.159
output of a song. You know, when it's like, I

00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.420
want that chorus to move. A great example of

00:47:53.420 --> 00:47:56.139
that is Black Soul on Attention, Attention. Like

00:47:56.139 --> 00:47:58.300
the way that chorus hits, you know, that chorus

00:47:58.300 --> 00:48:00.760
rips your head off when it kicks in. I love that,

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.659
man. It's just. And Azalea does that too. And

00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.840
I'm glad you could feel that. And I appreciate

00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.420
that. Thank you to Ted Jensen, the legendary

00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:10.460
Ted Jensen, mastering engineer at Sterling Sound.

00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.119
Because he masters all of Shinedown's records

00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:17.480
and all of my records and anything I work on,

00:48:17.500 --> 00:48:20.559
I have him master. Because he appreciates that

00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:24.059
stuff too. And believe me, man, it's something

00:48:24.059 --> 00:48:26.280
I have to come to terms with when I listen back

00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:28.420
to a mastered record that I've made, which is...

00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.659
This is not going to be as loud as everybody

00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:33.840
else's record probably, like comparatively. It's

00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:37.519
just not. But there's a volume knob there. And

00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:41.699
if you turn it up three clicks, three dB, whatever

00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:43.699
that is, then it will be as loud as everybody

00:48:43.699 --> 00:48:46.860
else's record and it'll have dynamics. And so

00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:50.000
that is a conscious thing I do. I realized that

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:52.880
I have to give up some loudness shock value in

00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:56.050
that. Everybody wants a loud record, man. I want

00:48:56.050 --> 00:48:57.989
a loud record. I want a really loud record. I

00:48:57.989 --> 00:48:59.670
want the loudest record out there. Everybody

00:48:59.670 --> 00:49:05.050
does. But you can't have it both ways. And so,

00:49:05.170 --> 00:49:07.289
yeah, man, it's a conscious thing. I definitely

00:49:07.289 --> 00:49:09.570
make those decisions. I'd much rather... I want

00:49:09.570 --> 00:49:11.610
something to breathe. I want it to move. I want

00:49:11.610 --> 00:49:14.510
it to... For me, it just makes the exciting parts

00:49:14.510 --> 00:49:17.309
more exciting. And that's what I'm after. I'm

00:49:17.309 --> 00:49:19.889
after that... I want the hair on my arm to stand

00:49:19.889 --> 00:49:22.389
up. And I know when I'm working on a mix when

00:49:22.389 --> 00:49:24.309
that happens. I'm like, that's it. That's the

00:49:24.309 --> 00:49:28.469
one. And there's something to learning how to

00:49:28.469 --> 00:49:31.349
play a mixing board like an instrument. I mean,

00:49:31.369 --> 00:49:33.849
even in my mixes. So even aside from working

00:49:33.849 --> 00:49:37.750
the master fader in the mix itself, where there

00:49:37.750 --> 00:49:39.210
are drum fills, I'm turning the whole drum kit

00:49:39.210 --> 00:49:40.869
up and down on drum fills. And then when the

00:49:40.869 --> 00:49:43.300
chorus hits, the drums are coming up. a db maybe

00:49:43.300 --> 00:49:46.059
a db and a half on the chorus and then back down

00:49:46.059 --> 00:49:48.380
and then maybe some of that guitar is coming

00:49:48.380 --> 00:49:50.619
in a little bit louder on the chorus and you

00:49:50.619 --> 00:49:52.739
know you just sort of i want this thing to breathe

00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:56.250
and be open like like there's a tendency Not

00:49:56.250 --> 00:49:59.190
everybody, it's not a broad stroke I'm painting

00:49:59.190 --> 00:50:01.429
here. I'm not saying every mixer does this or

00:50:01.429 --> 00:50:03.289
every, and I'm also not saying that I know what

00:50:03.289 --> 00:50:06.309
I'm doing. You know, I just, I just end up in

00:50:06.309 --> 00:50:08.670
a, I end up with a result that I like, but there's

00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:11.130
a tendency to just compress, compress, compress,

00:50:11.250 --> 00:50:14.170
compress, compress until you don't have to move

00:50:14.170 --> 00:50:17.329
any faders, especially with vocals. Like just

00:50:17.329 --> 00:50:19.210
compress the vocal till it just sits on top of

00:50:19.210 --> 00:50:21.349
everything all the time. You don't have to move

00:50:21.349 --> 00:50:23.829
anything. I've always been a fan of compress

00:50:23.829 --> 00:50:27.849
less and automate more. So automating, like I'll

00:50:27.849 --> 00:50:30.349
listen through the vocal and I'll mouth the vocal

00:50:30.349 --> 00:50:33.309
with my eyes closed. And if there's any lyric

00:50:33.309 --> 00:50:35.090
in there that I feel, or any syllable that I

00:50:35.090 --> 00:50:36.789
feel like gets lost, there's a T in there that

00:50:36.789 --> 00:50:39.269
gets lost or an S or the end of this word gets

00:50:39.269 --> 00:50:41.210
lost. I'm going to automate that up. And if you

00:50:41.210 --> 00:50:46.550
look at my automation on my sessions, my drums,

00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:49.920
my vocals, mainly. or just up and down and up

00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:51.559
and down and up and down there's just dots everywhere

00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.400
all over the screen where that vocal is getting

00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.480
automated uh and then my master bus is kind of

00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:58.599
is the same way my master bus my master fader

00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.300
is going to be the same way what's interesting

00:51:01.300 --> 00:51:04.900
is when i sometimes i mix out to my master fader

00:51:04.900 --> 00:51:07.340
on the analog console and so then i'm actually

00:51:07.340 --> 00:51:09.039
doing it in real time too you know so it just

00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:11.280
depends on what the it's a lot easier if you

00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:13.000
keep the master fader in the box to do it but

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:16.739
in the computer but yeah man that's just uh why

00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:19.320
record anything quiet if you don't want it quiet

00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.179
yeah i don't want it to disappear completely

00:51:21.179 --> 00:51:25.059
but you get the idea oh 100 when i listen to

00:51:25.059 --> 00:51:28.000
a symptom of being human in the album listen

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.320
to planet zero that's taking down in a moment

00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:34.360
on the album and i think Because of how you thought

00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:38.139
about dynamics is why that song really took off

00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:40.780
the way it did. I truly feel the music in that

00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:43.860
song. Obviously the message is what resonated

00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:46.579
with so many people, but the music that sits

00:51:46.579 --> 00:51:50.119
underneath this message is so calming, but then

00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:53.920
it builds. And the way the drums come in, Barry's

00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:59.699
not doing some like progressive rock opus. He's

00:51:59.699 --> 00:52:03.510
playing to the song. But it's so big because

00:52:03.510 --> 00:52:07.170
of the way the song has such dynamics. Where

00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:09.809
in other songs, if it was just a loud overall

00:52:09.809 --> 00:52:13.889
mix, you'd have to almost play more to try to

00:52:13.889 --> 00:52:18.110
fight the loudness wars. Yep. Yeah. And it's

00:52:18.110 --> 00:52:19.530
not just dynamics with that either. You talk

00:52:19.530 --> 00:52:21.550
about the last chorus of Symptom of Being Human.

00:52:21.610 --> 00:52:23.349
Something interesting happens there too with

00:52:23.349 --> 00:52:25.869
the drums. And musicians are going to get this.

00:52:26.230 --> 00:52:29.329
I'm not getting too inside baseball. But all

00:52:29.329 --> 00:52:31.900
of the chord changes. at that last chorus, once

00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:33.699
it builds in, they all take place on the and,

00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:36.639
and not on the beat. So it causes the last chorus

00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:38.960
to hop and kind of move differently. If we had

00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:41.360
just left, shout out to Barry Kirsch, if we had

00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:44.920
left the kick drums just right on the beat, sometimes

00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:49.420
I'm in a clue where I boom, clack, boom, and

00:52:49.420 --> 00:52:53.940
instead it's doom, when I don't doom, boom, boom,

00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:58.039
clack, like that, that'll and move right there

00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:01.239
at the end, lifts that song a ton. Like, it's

00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:03.119
unbelievable how much that changed everything

00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:07.639
when that happened. You know, things like that

00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:10.719
are the flourish on the end of the painting.

00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:13.780
You know, like we're painting on air. And if

00:53:13.780 --> 00:53:16.059
you've ever watched someone paint, I get to watch

00:53:16.059 --> 00:53:18.940
my buddy Rob Pryor paint. Rob is doing all of

00:53:18.940 --> 00:53:21.119
the artwork for my graphic novel. He did all

00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:23.719
the artwork in the album cover. He's a phenomenal

00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:28.239
artist. P -R -I -O -R, Rob Pryor. Pryor2art is

00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:31.300
his Instagram. You should check it out. but I

00:53:31.300 --> 00:53:33.659
get to watch him paint. And there's always some

00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:35.099
flourish at the end of the painting. You'll think

00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:36.219
the painting's done and you're sitting there

00:53:36.219 --> 00:53:38.420
looking at it and then he'll do like one more

00:53:38.420 --> 00:53:41.579
thing to it. And that's it. And you realize that

00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:44.280
one last thing is the thing that's like, it's

00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.059
like the sign off, the signature, you know, it's

00:53:46.059 --> 00:53:48.519
not the signature, and it makes the painting.

00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.280
That one little thing is what gives it its flavor

00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:53.500
that you didn't know it needed. And so there

00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:55.320
are little things like that, like the last chorus

00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:57.719
on Symptom where you just change the kind of

00:53:57.719 --> 00:53:59.579
causal hop where the bass notes are changing

00:53:59.579 --> 00:54:03.579
on the ands instead of on the ones. Or there's

00:54:03.579 --> 00:54:05.079
a pickup on the and, I guess is a better way

00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:06.179
of putting it. The chords aren't changing on

00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:08.179
that. But that's that little flourish, man, that

00:54:08.179 --> 00:54:09.860
you didn't know you needed that makes the song

00:54:09.860 --> 00:54:12.119
live and makes it breathe. And that along with

00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:14.539
the dynamics, you know, it just, I don't know,

00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:16.940
man. It's funny you say that we're talking about

00:54:16.940 --> 00:54:18.159
this because I think about some of the music

00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:21.940
that I love and there's other stuff, man, that

00:54:21.940 --> 00:54:24.139
has no dynamics in it whatsoever that I just

00:54:24.139 --> 00:54:26.440
absolutely love. Sometimes I love being pummeled.

00:54:27.219 --> 00:54:29.699
Oh, of course. If I'm listening to a metal album,

00:54:29.780 --> 00:54:31.719
dynamics be damned at that point. I don't want

00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:34.960
any dynamics in that at all. If I'm listening

00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:37.039
to System of a Down or something like that, man,

00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:40.079
I want to be annihilated, slipknot or something.

00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.960
Yeah. Lamb of God for me, but you know. Totally.

00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:44.820
Same thing, man. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't

00:54:44.820 --> 00:54:47.659
want dynamics. What are you talking about? So

00:54:47.659 --> 00:54:50.599
I have to, if you don't mind, this has been such

00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:52.760
an amazing conversation, but I have a couple

00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:56.599
of, I will kick myself if I don't ask short shine

00:54:56.599 --> 00:54:59.019
down questions for you that are going to come

00:54:59.019 --> 00:55:02.239
from a fan perspective, my personal shine down

00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:05.340
fandom. Sure. And the first one is I'm a huge

00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:08.099
fan of cover songs and no, I'm not talking about

00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:12.159
simple man. The Warner Sound Live Room EP that

00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:15.119
you guys put out, you covered I Feel the Earth

00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.780
Move from Carole King. Yeah. I'd love to know

00:55:17.780 --> 00:55:20.340
whose idea that was and how that came into the

00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:23.679
band because you guys frigging slayed that cover.

00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:25.940
I love the gender flip on it. I love everything

00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:27.780
about it. Cool. Thanks, man. Glad you noticed

00:55:27.780 --> 00:55:33.159
that too. Yeah. So the gist of that was we recorded

00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.800
in Henson Studios in Los Angeles. And so it was.

00:55:36.489 --> 00:55:38.369
they wanted each artist that came in and did

00:55:38.369 --> 00:55:39.949
that so there were multiple artists that went

00:55:39.949 --> 00:55:41.590
in and did the in in the live room and it was

00:55:41.590 --> 00:55:44.309
a live recording like there's no there's no overdubs

00:55:44.309 --> 00:55:47.309
well on i feel the earth moving on uh on i'll

00:55:47.309 --> 00:55:49.210
follow you i did overdub the bass because i couldn't

00:55:49.210 --> 00:55:51.989
play the piano and the bass wait wait you can't

00:55:51.989 --> 00:55:55.570
come on but uh but technically it's all live

00:55:55.570 --> 00:55:58.190
in the room so the piano and the and the guitar

00:55:58.190 --> 00:56:00.110
and the drums and the vocals were all done live

00:56:00.730 --> 00:56:02.389
And no punch -ins either. Like, it's like, you're

00:56:02.389 --> 00:56:03.690
just going to do this song. This is what you're

00:56:03.690 --> 00:56:06.369
going to do. Do these songs. I think there were

00:56:06.369 --> 00:56:08.210
four of your own songs that you wanted to do.

00:56:08.289 --> 00:56:11.289
And then one song that had been recorded in Henson

00:56:11.289 --> 00:56:15.949
Studios. And so the list was long of stuff that

00:56:15.949 --> 00:56:17.369
we could do. I mean, the Black Album was done

00:56:17.369 --> 00:56:20.090
in Henson Studios. Appetite for Destruction was

00:56:20.090 --> 00:56:23.010
done at Henson Studios. I mean, the list goes

00:56:23.010 --> 00:56:26.269
on and on. But, you know, we wanted... I just

00:56:26.269 --> 00:56:28.030
always wanted to do something unique. You know,

00:56:28.070 --> 00:56:29.309
it's like, what are people not going to expect?

00:56:30.149 --> 00:56:33.190
And Brent and I had thrown around multiple ideas

00:56:33.190 --> 00:56:36.090
and he called me and he's like, hey man, what

00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:39.090
about Carole King? And I'm like, I had not thought

00:56:39.090 --> 00:56:41.829
of that. Like that's not even one that came up

00:56:41.829 --> 00:56:43.969
in conversation at all. And he's like, yeah,

00:56:44.070 --> 00:56:46.829
I feel the earth move and you make me feel like

00:56:46.829 --> 00:56:49.429
a woman. All those songs were done in Henson.

00:56:49.570 --> 00:56:53.010
And I'm like, oh man, awesome. So I got to work

00:56:53.010 --> 00:56:54.250
on it, man. I was like, let me throw something

00:56:54.250 --> 00:56:55.349
together. Let me throw an arrangement together.

00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:58.820
and so uh this we put you make me feel is the

00:56:58.820 --> 00:57:01.659
bridge to the song basically so to speak i had

00:57:01.659 --> 00:57:03.559
to find a way to get down there but we we threw

00:57:03.559 --> 00:57:05.119
that hook in there at the end of the guitar solo

00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:07.800
but i uh i threw together an arrangement sent

00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:10.699
it out to the guys everybody loved it and that

00:57:10.699 --> 00:57:12.340
was the first time we played it together was

00:57:12.340 --> 00:57:15.300
in that session i think wow yeah we'd all rehearsed

00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:18.710
it on our own But we hadn't rehearsed it as a

00:57:18.710 --> 00:57:20.849
band. I think we all showed up at Los Angeles

00:57:20.849 --> 00:57:23.070
the day before that and just went in and did

00:57:23.070 --> 00:57:25.349
it. The interesting thing about that version,

00:57:25.449 --> 00:57:27.849
man, is that's the same piano that she recorded

00:57:27.849 --> 00:57:30.929
that song on. So if you listen to my intro and

00:57:30.929 --> 00:57:33.309
her intro, it's obviously the same instrument.

00:57:33.510 --> 00:57:36.670
That gives me chills to this day. Because when

00:57:36.670 --> 00:57:39.289
I hear her version of it, it's like, I know that

00:57:39.289 --> 00:57:42.190
piano, man. But yeah, man, we just wanted to

00:57:42.190 --> 00:57:45.090
do something people didn't expect, I guess. If

00:57:45.090 --> 00:57:47.110
there's one thing that makes us tick as a band,

00:57:47.309 --> 00:57:49.449
that's what it is, is trying to, because a lot

00:57:49.449 --> 00:57:52.349
of people second guess us a lot. And it's caused

00:57:52.349 --> 00:57:54.690
us to walk around with a little chip on our shoulder.

00:57:54.769 --> 00:57:57.030
So just to kind of make the chip bigger, sometimes

00:57:57.030 --> 00:57:58.590
we want to do things that people don't expect

00:57:58.590 --> 00:58:03.130
as well. All right. Second question. Attention,

00:58:03.369 --> 00:58:06.659
attention, album. A New Way to Die was a bonus

00:58:06.659 --> 00:58:08.900
track that you can only get if you purchase the

00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:11.519
album at Walmart and you had to download it and

00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.900
it was only an MP3. So being such a huge fan

00:58:14.900 --> 00:58:17.159
of this one, I have to ask, and it's a small

00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:19.840
minor gripe of all the years I've been a Shinedown

00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:23.320
fan. How did A New Way to Die not make the original

00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:28.420
Attention to Tension album? I don't remember

00:58:28.420 --> 00:58:31.079
why that's not on the record. And honestly, you

00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:32.440
just brought up a song that I had not thought

00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.639
about in a lot of years. I hadn't thought about

00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:38.059
that song in a minute. Wow, man. I remember recording

00:58:38.059 --> 00:58:40.980
that song for sure. Zach played bass on that.

00:58:41.139 --> 00:58:43.539
Oh, really? Yeah, on that song. I played guitar

00:58:43.539 --> 00:58:45.900
on that song. He played bass on that song. We

00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:48.880
do that a lot. We switch. If you write the riff

00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:50.579
in Shinedown, you generally are going to play

00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:53.440
the song on the record. Like there's no... A

00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:55.440
song like Dead Don't Die, the intro is Zach.

00:58:56.289 --> 00:58:58.250
The intro and verses is Zach, because he wrote

00:58:58.250 --> 00:59:00.670
that. And then it gets to the chorus. And I wrote

00:59:00.670 --> 00:59:02.070
the chorus riff, so I played the choruses on

00:59:02.070 --> 00:59:05.369
that song. And so there's a lot of flip -flop

00:59:05.369 --> 00:59:07.670
switching around kind of stuff that happens on

00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:09.849
our records like that. Zach played bass on A

00:59:09.849 --> 00:59:13.530
New Way to Die. I don't know. I don't have an

00:59:13.530 --> 00:59:15.309
answer for you. I don't know why that's not on

00:59:15.309 --> 00:59:17.570
the record. Here's the thing. Obviously, at the

00:59:17.570 --> 00:59:21.130
end of the day, we decided. The word committee

00:59:21.130 --> 00:59:22.530
sounds awful. Everything happens by committee,

00:59:22.630 --> 00:59:25.039
meaning the four band members decide. Like, what

00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:27.719
do we think the record is? And at some point

00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:29.840
that was decided that didn't belong on the record

00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:31.699
for whatever reason. So that's the best answer

00:59:31.699 --> 00:59:33.139
I have for you. I wish I had something more,

00:59:33.139 --> 00:59:36.239
more, more woo -woo than that, but that's it.

00:59:36.860 --> 00:59:39.340
Okay. So then for this third question, I wouldn't

00:59:39.340 --> 00:59:42.780
be doing my part as a podcaster if I didn't ask

00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:45.000
if there was any dirt that you'd be willing to

00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:48.400
share on Shinedown 8 with the My Weekly Mixtape

00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:54.340
listeners. Ooh, dirt about it. I'm trying to

00:59:54.340 --> 00:59:57.099
see the dirt at this point. Man, I don't know

00:59:57.099 --> 00:59:58.059
why this is the first thing that popped in my

00:59:58.059 --> 00:59:59.460
head, and I apologize if this is not what you're

00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:02.199
looking for. The first set of songs that we wrote

01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:04.940
for the record, it was me, Brent, and Dave Bassett

01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:08.059
wrote. I was not well. I was not mentally well

01:00:08.059 --> 01:00:11.340
the whole time. And there's a song called The

01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:13.940
Killing Fields, which is a song that I love very

01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:17.179
much. Dance Kids Dance is another one that we

01:00:17.179 --> 01:00:20.000
wrote. Searchlight is another song that we wrote.

01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.599
But there's one in particular called The Pilot.

01:00:23.779 --> 01:00:28.739
that is, it's one of the sweetest things. I don't

01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:30.920
know if anyone's ever given me a sweeter gift

01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:33.880
than this. And I wish I could take credit for

01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:36.480
the writing of the song, but it wasn't me. There's

01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:38.340
a song called The Pilot that's going to be on

01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:40.840
the record that I had a moment, man, where I

01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:42.820
just like kind of unloaded and vented to Dave

01:00:42.820 --> 01:00:44.119
and to Brent, because we're all great friends.

01:00:44.260 --> 01:00:45.340
And it was just one of those things about how

01:00:45.340 --> 01:00:46.980
like, man, I'm not in a good place and not, you

01:00:46.980 --> 01:00:48.360
know, I don't know what's happening with my brain.

01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:52.340
And, you know. I'm not sure I want to be here

01:00:52.340 --> 01:00:54.880
and all of that stuff. It helps to talk about

01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.599
those things with people. I encourage everyone

01:00:56.599 --> 01:00:58.320
to talk about those things. Even the stuff you

01:00:58.320 --> 01:00:59.480
don't want to say. When I say I don't want to

01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:01.559
be here, that's a heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy,

01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:04.820
heavy, heavy thing to say. But sometimes, man,

01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:06.119
you have to make your friends your therapist.

01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:07.900
And sometimes you have to just, they don't have

01:01:07.900 --> 01:01:09.280
to have the answers, but it just helps for you

01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:11.460
to articulate those things to somebody. But I

01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:13.039
got done articulating these things to him. And

01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.900
the next day we got back to writing and it wasn't

01:01:16.900 --> 01:01:19.309
going well. Brent looked at Dave and he said,

01:01:19.349 --> 01:01:20.829
do you want to play it for me? I was like, what

01:01:20.829 --> 01:01:24.190
are you talking about? And evidently Brent had

01:01:24.190 --> 01:01:26.630
gone by Dave's hotel room that night after we

01:01:26.630 --> 01:01:28.369
got finished and Dave was working on this song

01:01:28.369 --> 01:01:29.750
and he played it for Brent. And Brent was like,

01:01:29.809 --> 01:01:32.349
man, you got to play that for Eric. And Dave's

01:01:32.349 --> 01:01:33.829
like, I don't know, man. He's like, that's super

01:01:33.829 --> 01:01:36.590
personal. Like, I don't know. And I think Dave

01:01:36.590 --> 01:01:38.070
thought maybe I'd be mad or something. I was

01:01:38.070 --> 01:01:39.750
like, that was nothing of the sort. And he played

01:01:39.750 --> 01:01:42.010
me this song called The Pilot that he wrote about

01:01:42.010 --> 01:01:44.630
me and about what I was going through from my

01:01:44.630 --> 01:01:48.679
perspective. And dude, it's like. i i can't wait

01:01:48.679 --> 01:01:51.500
for everybody to hear it it's um again i wish

01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:53.619
i could claim songwriting on it i don't have

01:01:53.619 --> 01:01:55.940
any songwriting whatsoever i played the acoustic

01:01:55.940 --> 01:01:58.619
guitar on it and recorded it but it's a very

01:01:58.619 --> 01:02:00.219
different place for brent's voice too because

01:02:00.219 --> 01:02:02.659
it's soft you know there's no trying to overpower

01:02:02.659 --> 01:02:05.280
the song at all ever once in the song he's singing

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:07.019
he's basically singing in a speaking voice the

01:02:07.019 --> 01:02:09.639
whole song and it's uh i don't know just just

01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.579
probably the the i don't know when i think about

01:02:12.579 --> 01:02:14.619
gifts that that people have given me over the

01:02:14.619 --> 01:02:18.650
years like i that's just one that you know, and

01:02:18.650 --> 01:02:20.750
I probably don't tell him and I probably don't

01:02:20.750 --> 01:02:22.929
tell Dave enough about it either, but yeah, there

01:02:22.929 --> 01:02:24.530
you go. There's some, there's some, sorry, this

01:02:24.530 --> 01:02:27.210
kind of solemn dirt or, but it's, but it's dirt

01:02:27.210 --> 01:02:28.909
in nonetheless others dirt or not, but it's just

01:02:28.909 --> 01:02:30.750
something that that's the first inside scoop

01:02:30.750 --> 01:02:32.329
on the record. Anybody's had, how about that?

01:02:32.610 --> 01:02:34.869
All right. Well, the one thing I will follow

01:02:34.869 --> 01:02:37.389
it up with then attention, attention, concept

01:02:37.389 --> 01:02:41.309
album. I have a name concept album, planet zero

01:02:41.309 --> 01:02:45.269
concept album, shine down eight, not a concept

01:02:45.269 --> 01:02:48.590
album. All right. Not a concept album. Back to

01:02:48.590 --> 01:02:51.030
more of what Threat to Survival was, what Sound

01:02:51.030 --> 01:02:52.650
of Madness was, which is just a collection of

01:02:52.650 --> 01:02:55.530
songs. And definitely all from a real place.

01:02:55.769 --> 01:02:57.630
Nothing's changed in that department. It's just

01:02:57.630 --> 01:03:00.170
that was sort of something agreed upon before

01:03:00.170 --> 01:03:01.750
we even started writing. It's like, let's just,

01:03:02.130 --> 01:03:05.929
you know. And again, it's like, I think everyone's

01:03:05.929 --> 01:03:07.969
gaze kind of shoots at me when they say concept

01:03:07.969 --> 01:03:09.789
record, because it's like, I've been responsible

01:03:09.789 --> 01:03:11.349
for those three records and they're all three

01:03:11.349 --> 01:03:14.170
concept records. But all of those were unintentional,

01:03:14.170 --> 01:03:16.269
other than my record. My record was not an unintentional

01:03:16.269 --> 01:03:17.909
concept record, but the rest of them were pretty

01:03:17.909 --> 01:03:19.989
unintentional. They ended up just being what

01:03:19.989 --> 01:03:22.550
they are. So this time we're like, let's just

01:03:22.550 --> 01:03:24.309
try to spread the subject matter around a little

01:03:24.309 --> 01:03:26.090
more this time and see if we can't come up with

01:03:26.090 --> 01:03:28.949
some interesting things. So with the new album

01:03:28.949 --> 01:03:31.170
dropping this Friday, are there any plans to

01:03:31.170 --> 01:03:33.190
tour on the album this year? Or is the touring

01:03:33.190 --> 01:03:35.329
going to be dedicated to more Shinedown throughout

01:03:35.329 --> 01:03:39.630
2025? Yeah, the beautiful thing about all of

01:03:39.630 --> 01:03:42.130
this is that I'm in a band that's really successful,

01:03:42.329 --> 01:03:45.849
man. And I'm so blessed. And our entire universe

01:03:45.849 --> 01:03:49.550
as individuals revolves around that. And so I

01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:51.429
have to get the Shinedown record made. And then

01:03:51.429 --> 01:03:52.769
once the Shinedown record's made, I probably

01:03:52.769 --> 01:03:55.280
need to take... Probably need to take a quick

01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:59.099
breath before the touring starts. But look, so

01:03:59.099 --> 01:04:02.340
no immediate plans for touring. But if I had

01:04:02.340 --> 01:04:05.179
a crystal ball, I had to look forward. When the

01:04:05.179 --> 01:04:07.280
graphic novel comes out next year, that will

01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:09.320
probably be around November, December, if I have

01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:11.940
my way. If nothing's on the books for Shinedown

01:04:11.940 --> 01:04:14.039
at that point, possibly. It might be a possible

01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:18.159
time to do something. And I've sort of talked

01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:20.099
to a couple of friends and other bands that people

01:04:20.099 --> 01:04:21.940
would know. and said, hey, man, you want to do

01:04:21.940 --> 01:04:24.280
like an all -star band sort of thing? And I've

01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:25.880
had a couple of people say yes. I've also got

01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.400
a couple of people that don't know that I have

01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:31.260
them in mind, you know, kind of thing. But if

01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:33.320
it were to happen, that's how and when it would

01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:35.880
probably happen. But I actually don't know at

01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:37.980
this point. It would be interesting to try out

01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:41.340
some frontman genes on stage for sure. Well,

01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:44.260
I Had a Name drops February 25th. You can hear

01:04:44.260 --> 01:04:47.260
this unique and complex concept album in its

01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:49.900
entirety. Finally, I'm also going to have the

01:04:49.900 --> 01:04:52.920
album embedded on the episode page at myweeklymixtape

01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:55.400
.com so you can check it out there as well. Eric,

01:04:55.500 --> 01:04:58.679
this has been an absolute honor talking music

01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:01.400
with you tonight. Thank you first for all of

01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:03.920
the music that you've created since joining the

01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:06.780
band and what you've done with them. Shine Down

01:05:06.780 --> 01:05:09.059
is a band that's extremely important to me. I

01:05:09.059 --> 01:05:11.880
love what you're doing with the solo album. And

01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:14.320
I just love the message. And I love the stories

01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:17.500
that you're telling and the art that you continue

01:05:17.500 --> 01:05:19.940
to create. So thank you for that. But more importantly,

01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:22.900
thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule

01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:25.420
to join me on my weekly mixtape. Brian, that

01:05:25.420 --> 01:05:27.239
is so kind, man. Thank you for the words. And

01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:29.280
thank you for taking the time to listen to the

01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:31.480
record and to be a fan of the band and of what

01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:32.800
I do, man. That means a lot to me. Thank you.

01:05:33.210 --> 01:05:35.309
And to those listening, you can find My Weekly

01:05:35.309 --> 01:05:37.489
Mixtape on almost all the social media haunts

01:05:37.489 --> 01:05:41.469
at My Weekly Mixtape. You can also head to MyWeeklyMixtape

01:05:41.469 --> 01:05:44.230
.com to check out the full catalog of My Weekly

01:05:44.230 --> 01:05:46.510
Mixtape episodes. And if you like what you're

01:05:46.510 --> 01:05:48.250
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01:05:48.250 --> 01:05:50.710
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01:05:50.710 --> 01:05:53.010
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01:05:53.010 --> 01:05:56.610
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01:05:56.610 --> 01:05:59.969
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01:05:59.969 --> 01:06:02.789
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01:06:05.949 --> 01:06:08.909
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01:06:08.909 --> 01:06:10.730
this week. Thanks again for listening. And until

01:06:10.730 --> 01:06:12.710
next time, enjoy the tunes.