Welcome to my weekly mixtape, a podcast that
takes the classic mixtape approach to building
a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn.
Tonight, I am excited to share with everybody
this throwback interview from back in the Toon
Styles days with Cary Colleton, who's the co
-founder of Record Store Day. We actually talked
deep about the history of the event. Kind of
all the inner workings around how it gets put
together, how those classic releases get made.
I mean, this is everything you want to know about
Record Store Day if you're someone who actually
celebrates. Now, don't worry. When I say an episode
is from the vaults, I actually go through and
listen. And, you know, a little kudos to Jay
and I here. There's nothing dated in this episode.
So bravo to us. And I hope you guys enjoy this
deep dive into this cultural phenomenon known.
as record store day and if you like what you're
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and so much more. Once again, that's patreon
.com forward slash myweeklymixtape. And with
that, I hope you enjoy this sit -down with Record
Store Day co -founder Cary Colleton. So for any
music fan, Record Store Day is a holiday that
probably eclipses Christmas, I would say. It
is the day for the record and music lovers to
go out to the stores and purchase ungodly amounts
of vinyl and CDs and any other exclusive releases.
Every music fan knows about Record Store Day.
So it's a pleasure to have you on to talk about
this. Well, thank you very much. I would dispute
that every music fan knows about Record Store
Day yet because we're still going. So we still
feel like we have a job to do in making sure
that eventually every music fan knows about record
stores and about this special day. Touche. All
right. Well, look, being the music nerds that
Jay and I are, we have been fans of Record Store
Day since the inception because we have been
consuming physical media since... I don't know,
since I did that instead of toys when I was a
kid. I went to the record store. I didn't go
to the toy store. So this is like the holiday
that I feel like was made for me. I think Jay
feels the same. It was made. It was made for
you. It was made exactly for you guys and all
the other yous out there in the world. I'm glad
you feel that way because that's exactly the
idea. So why don't you talk about how Record
Store Day began and how you cultivated this quote
unquote holiday? yearly for the music fan? Sure.
Well, to start off, I'll say there is no plan.
There is no guidebook. I don't believe that if
anybody had set out to say, okay, I'm going to
make this, that you could actually have had like
a step -by -step plan to do it. There's no checklist.
There's no none of that. We literally started
by saying, you know what? We're tired of hearing
in the press and hearing in popular culture that
record stores are dead. Wasn't it great when
we had record stores? It's so sad that we don't
have record stores anymore. And the reason we
started getting frustrated with that is because
the people who started Record Store Day, our
day -to -day job was working in or with record
stores. And we knew that, yes, Tower Records,
RIP, And we knew that there were issues with,
you know, FYE and other big chain record stores.
But we also knew that individual independent
record stores and even chains of record stores
that were independently owned were very flexible
and were very smart. And they were the people
we worked with. And we saw that that was still
viable and they were still there and they were
still kicking it. And why was every story? basically
written before any questions were asked, and
it was all about the death of record stores and
the death of physical media. And we just thought,
you know what, let's just have a party and have
a press release and send it out and invite as
many stores as want to be part of it to be part
of it and do whatever it is that you do at a
party and just feel like we had done something
to get the word out there. Now, do you have a
background in marketing and PR kind of work?
Because I know that a lot of... What goes into
Record Store Day involves contacting a wide across
the world, I'm assuming at this point. Oh, yeah.
It involves communication of all kinds to all
kinds of people. And I personally, I may be the
luckiest person in the world career wise. I started
working in a record store when I was in college.
And at the same time, I also worked at a radio
station. And I was in college at a school called
Virginia Tech. It's in the mountains of... Virginia,
and it was like a little bubble. It was this
wonderful community where we basically, as kids,
got to run around and do all this stuff with
music and book our own shows and run our own
record stores and run radio stations and both
college and commercial. And it was amazing, but
it also taught you, okay, this job is fun, but
it has to get done. And you have to learn how
to do this job. And that is what I've done all
the way through. to today with Record Store Day.
So I worked at a record store and then I helped
open more record stores in this little regional
chain. And then I worked under Michael Kurtz,
who I still work with on Record Store Day. He
was the marketing director for this little chain.
And I started working with him and I learned
how to do in -stores, how to work with labels,
how to work with artists, how to work with other
record stores. It's all things we've taught ourselves.
It's all just be a good person, have a good heart.
Treat people with compassion and respect. And
if you're going to ask them to do something,
be willing to do it yourself. Be willing to go
and do it with them. And seriously, I don't lie
when I say I am the luckiest person when it comes
to careers because that is what everything I've
taught myself to do. Record Store Day for me
is a lot about social media and outreach to people
and outreach to customers and sending out. requests
for artists to do things and sending out requests
for stores to do things and helping stores become
better retailers, become better businesses. Learning
on my end how to help them do that is what Record
Store Day has kind of become. We're all very
self -taught. in this world of record stores.
And Carrie, that's really refreshing because
that hustle, that drive and motivation, showing
off your passion for what you do, I think it's
lost on a lot of people. And that's kind of what
I think ties back into what you were originally
saying at the top of the show. It kind of fueled
that, oh, well, I guess just record stores are
dead because who buys records anymore? Yeah,
well, and I think it's telling too that obviously
the biggest names in record stores were Tower.
And again, Tower didn't close because people
stopped buying records or caring about records.
There are a lot of reasons why Tower closed.
And Colin Hanks' fantastic documentary goes into
that. It wasn't because people didn't love records,
didn't love Tower. And a lot of record stores
closed for a lot of reasons. It's one of the
reasons why we, on social media, kind of make
a decision. We don't talk about a lot of closings,
partially because... we're a made up holiday
and made up holiday should be fun. And we talk
about all the good stuff that happens, but we
don't talk about the clothing because they're
always so complicated. It's never just simply
people stop buying records. Nobody cares. Everybody's
downloading or everybody's streaming. It's never
just that there's always something else. And
that is not unique to record stores. That's any
business. It's restaurants, it's hardware stores,
whatever. Everything is so complicated when you're
running a small business, which is the other
side of what Record Store Day celebrates and
promotes. Music and physical media and the love
of records. I have three turntables in my house,
but one television. I am very into the vinyl
aspect of Record Store Day, but it's not the
only thing Record Store Day is about. And that
other side of it is... Those people have the
hustle. The stores that succeed are the ones
who are smart and quick and on the ground and
staying in touch with their stores, whether they
have 27 stores like Newberry Comics, and Lord
knows they may be 28 at this point, I don't know,
or a single store that has just opened within
the last year or two. Those people have a lot
in common, whether they know it or not. And one
of the things they have in common is us, is Record
Store Day. fighting for them and screaming about
them in the most pleasant way we can think of.
And then also taking on a role lately of trying
to help them be better at what they do. Well,
Carrie, you and I, and I think Jay are all on
the same wavelength here. Jay and I have been
in radio and television and media for 20 something
years here. And when I was in college, I worked
in a record store and I always thought that my
ending dream job would be able to just sit and
talk about music all day long because that's
just something I enjoy. If I'm not listening
to it, I'm talking about it. And like you have
three turntables and one TV. I have stereo equipment
scattered all throughout the house. So that way
I can listen wherever I want, whenever I want.
And I can always tell you when the new upcoming
albums are, but I couldn't tell you what happened
on any episode of Game of Thrones. So I can do
both. I can do both. I have so much. Useless
knowledge in my head. I could do both. Well,
let me say that you had mentioned something I
thought was very interesting. Talking about that
you don't talk about the negative. And sometimes
when stores close, I feel like there's an agenda
with trying to push the new formats, the new
mediums. And the new medium over the last decade
has been downloading and streaming. Now, Record
Store Day celebrates the physical medium, but
you can't deny that streaming and downloading
are a massive chunk of the music consumption
pie, so to speak. So I'd like to know what your
thoughts are on digital and if the two formats
could live, and I apologize in advance for the
terrible pun, in harmony. That was actually not
the worst pun. It could have been so much worse.
The really interesting thing about this is there
are so many opinions on this. This question internally
in the music industry, and let me just say real
quick, when I say we don't talk about the negative
at Record Store Day, I'm not going to do a post
about a store closing necessarily because it's
really sad, and it's sad for the people who work
there, the people who shop there, and for all,
like I said, it's so complicated, and social
media. is so complicated and can be so painful.
And it needs to be, you know, the discussion
of a store closing really needs to be much more
in depth than you can do on a Twitter or Instagram
or Facebook post. So we don't really do it there,
but we do talk to the store and we do discuss
these things internally. And, you know, within
the industry, within Record Store Day, all of
that is discussed and we are not Luddites in
any way. We all know about streaming. We all
know about digital. The people we work with at
the labels and distribution balance both things.
You know, they are a label. Their job is to sell
music, whether it's a stream, a download, a TV
sync, or a record, or a CD. That's all the same
company. So all of that exists, and we are involved
in those conversations. We know about those things.
The question of whether they can live in harmony
has kind of become the industry version of Bear
v. Shark or Stones, Beatles, you know, the question.
And I believe they can live together in harmony.
And I think they kind of have to. I think streaming
and a lot of record stores have Spotify playlists.
A lot of record stores dabble in that. A lot
of record stores who are also record labels have.
download cards in their records because they
understand people are complicated. People have
many ways they want to hear things. There are
a lot of situations where I love playing my,
you know, Coal Mine Records soul compilations
on vinyl is where I think they sound best. But
if I'm on a beach vacation or something where
that music's going to sound great, but I don't
have my turntable, then yeah, my download card
is fantastic to have. All of that, people...
Everybody listens to things differently in different
places in different situations. I think streaming
is a really great way to learn about new music,
to introduce yourself to new music, to test something
out almost as a listening station. And then once
you decide that you really like it, spend some
time with it. There's a lot of music out there.
It may take you two weeks or so to listen to
a record two or three times through and realize,
yeah, you know what? I need this in my life.
I need this in my collection. And I think there
are enough people who are doing that, who are
using streaming for certain things, certain discovery,
and then translating that to a physical purchase
for whatever reason that is. I have a great sound
system. I want to make sure the artist is getting
paid. I want to have the cover art. Whatever
your reason for physical is, and there are so
many different reasons that people have physical
music collections, I think. Streaming is, I do
it all the time. I'm reading an article, a press
release about something, and I'm just going to
click and listen to it because it's super convenient.
There's no denying that. That's amazing you say
that because when I first dabbled with streaming,
I never thought of streaming for me personally,
and everyone has their different means. But for
me, I always felt that streaming was the perfect
tool to test drive new bands. Yeah. What I love
about independent record stores is though, sometimes
they have a pulse based on knowledge that you
might not get from Spotify or from title or just
from digging around just because they have so
many different people coming in. Word of mouth
is massive for any band out there. And I think
that's a big part of this. And I feel like the
independent record stores are your hubs for the
word of mouth. If you're not at a live show,
I feel like. That's the next place you would
be to find out about these bands. Oh, absolutely.
And I feel strongly that a human is the best
algorithm for recommendation. And you're never
going to match a human saying, oh, dude, you
like that record. Maybe you should listen to
this one. Or, oh, I'm about to put this one on,
stick around for a couple songs and see what
you think. Or, yeah, somebody came in and bought
that last week and we listened to it. Because
the clerks get... that same feedback and inspiration
from the customers. And I don't think that Spotify,
yes, they're going to look at what you're playing
and they're going to recommend very similar things.
And I am not savvy in that way. I don't know
how algorithms work. They confuse me sometimes,
but I use them. I know they exist and they're
helpful, but it also seems to me like a lot of
times. Everything is very similar. I listen to
this, so it recommends this. It kind of sounds
just like what I was just listening to. And that's
not, in my mind, really discovery. That's a lovely
playlist and maybe perfect for whatever I'm doing
and I want a certain theme. But for discovery,
I still think the idea of humans talking to each
other and learning from each other and being
in a social place. Live shows are great for that
because you're with other people and you're talking
to other people. But how did you learn to go
to that live show? Did you hear about it from
someone? Did you discover it on Spotify? Yeah,
you may have, but then you're going to be with
other people and experiencing it. And that's
a big factor in a record store. That's a big
thing is the social element of it. And I, you
know, it's a cliche that everybody's kind of
snotty at a record store. You know, you're not
going to have a great time. They're going to
make fun of you or you're going to walk out and
make fun of them. We've all seen high fidelity.
Exactly. Exactly. And I, you know, I experienced
that, not thankfully in the stores I worked in,
but I experienced it. And to some small extent,
I do put it down to the fact that I'm female
and I would go in record stores. Not anymore,
because there are more and more. females working
in, owning, and shopping in record stores. It's
almost laughable when people bring that up now,
but it definitely did not used to be the case.
I just feel like the social element, and that's
something I talk about a lot when people say,
why are record stores still working? Why are
they still going? And part of it is that social
aspect. People really love being able to just
walk into a grocery store and be by themselves
and walk around and buy groceries because they
can figure out what they need and what they want.
People can buy gas without talking to another
human. Music is a different thing. And in a lot
of ways, books are the same way. And I don't
know, maybe food should be that way. Maybe you
should have to talk to people. I don't know.
But there are some things in the world that you
still consume. that have such a social element
to them that it's really great to have a place
where like -minded people who are like -minded
in that they want to go and consume this music
with other humans but don't necessarily have
the exact same taste, if you're open to that,
record stores are a fantastic place, especially
now. A lot of them have coffee and beer and you
can listen to things. But going back to how streaming
is a great discovery tool, things are set up
in the world now of record stores and distribution
that it would be very difficult for them to open
up every record and maybe even every CD and let
you listen to it before you buy it. Because for
a lot of reasons, vinyl is for the most part
not returnable. So once a store gets it, if it's
not that it's defective, they can't return it.
So they're very likely to not open it up and
let you play it before you buy it. Because that's
a risk and a not inexpensive one for them to
take. So the fact that they're streaming or some
other way to discover this music and then come
in and experience it in the world of the record
stores is good. We shouldn't kid ourselves. It's
not going away. The problem of dealing with streaming,
quote unquote, is not going to get easier or
go away. It's either embrace it. Exactly, exactly.
I want to tie this back in because there's a
couple of things that you mentioned that are
extremely interesting, bringing it back down
to that local level where you talked about how
your record stores are in your communities. How
much of a role do you think the record store
day and record stores in general play for new
local music getting discovered as well? Oh, my
God. Huge, huge. And only getting. Huger, which
isn't a word, but it's... It is now. It's early.
I should not be creating words. So one of the
things about Record Store Day that's so exciting
is when we have big performers come and celebrate
Record Store Day by doing an in -store event.
You know, Foo Fighters have played in two different
record stores. Little record stores on Record
Store Day. Iggy Pop shows up and serves ice cream
sandwiches. I mean, Pearl Jam shows up and donuts
and... We've had Wilco performances. Yeah, there
was some band, Metallica or something. Exactly.
They were, honest to God, the first to kind of
really embrace what we were doing. And they were
like, you know what? We're going to go to our
record store in a local and we're going to sign
records. And they did it for like four hours.
That's awesome. That's so insane. And I don't
care if you don't like Metallica. That's amazing
that they did that. They may be big. They might
go somewhere. Right. They might be. My voice
gets really high when I talk about how cool that
was. But the majority, so there are 1 ,200, give
or take, participating record stores in the U
.S. alone. And that's not worldwide because we
are worldwide, man. We are big. But in the U
.S. alone, that's 1 ,200 stores having a day
-long party. The majority of the people performing
at those parties and celebrating what the record
store means to them and to their communities.
are local bands, the majority of the music. I
mean, there are like 15 band bills at these stores.
And the videos from those are my favorite part
of the day because everyone is happy. Everyone
is thrilled. It's guys and girls and children
performing at their local record store and being
treated like rock stars because the record store
recognizes. that this is part of our community.
I mean, there are some record stores where they're
basically a band practice space, you know, book
a Tuesday in store before the store closes and
come on, let's watch you grow up. Waterloo and
Austin, there are three or four artists who basically
have been playing at Waterloo since they were
little kids, just kind of honing their craft
and getting better and better and better. And
the way that record stores embrace their local
musicians is, is just so indicative of what community
is. They will consign your records. They will
put up your show flyers. They will put up a flyer
to help you put your band together. And I guarantee
there's been store staff who have said like,
oh, you should come back and talk to this person
who plays guitar. who usually comes in on Tuesdays.
You guys might get along. I know there are bands
that have started over the racks. I know there
are. That's amazing. And record stores, more
and more of them are putting out, doing their
own thing in this land of DIY music where everybody
can put out a record if they really want to.
Record stores are starting labels and supporting
their local artists by putting them on the label.
And that's just great to see too. That's just
more, you know, that's just the cycle there.
So I want to piggyback off of the ambassadors
that you were talking about earlier. Yeah. That
seems like a hard get for the Foo Fighters, for
Metallica, for Pearl Jam. From a marketing perspective,
how do you create those partnerships with the
bands? Do you have to go through management,
the label? Talk about how that comes to fruition.
It's really different with every situation. And
that's the case with every release, with every...
The Ambassador is a really crazy thing that grew
out of Record Store Day. When I said that there's
no plan for this, there's no checklist, Ambassador
wasn't on our list. We wanted artists to be a
part of Record Store Day from the beginning because
there are three groups of people in a record
store. There's the people who own it and run
it, the people who shop in it, and the people
who make the music that's sold in it. So to have
a day that celebrates it, you need all three
groups of people to participate. That was the
basic strategy. You're in this group. What do
you want to do? So I think it was 2009, maybe
our second year. Jesse Hughes from Eagles of
Death Metal, they were doing a piece, Eagles
of Death Metal was, and he was talking to somebody,
I think at his label maybe or management. And
he was like, you know what? This is a great thing.
What a great made up holiday. You need an ambassador.
I'm going to be it. And just try and stop me,
basically. No, please don't do that. How dare
you tell anybody about this? It's a big secret.
So he went out and just basically, I think he
had a sash. I'm trying to, the days blur together
for me. They really do. I think he had a sash
and I think he just went out and was basically
like, I'm here to tell everybody about this great
thing called Record Store Day and these great
places called record stores. And it was fantastic.
And then kind of as a fluke, you know, it could
have ended just there. Like Jesse, he was crazy.
That was awesome. I somehow was doing an interview
with. His bandmate Joshua Homme of Queens of
Stone Age and Death Metal and Them Crooked Vultures.
I was just going to say Them Crooked Vultures.
Yep. I'm actually wearing a Them Crooked Vultures
t -shirt right now. Awesome. So I was doing an
interview with him for – I think we were going
to put it on our website on recordstoreday .com.
So I was doing an interview with him and I said,
you know, your buddy Jesse was our ambassador
last year. Are you going to just let him kind
of one -up you in that arena? And he was like,
no, I'm not. I'm not going to let him do that.
And I said, well, you realize I'm taping this,
right? You realize this is recorded and you have
just agreed. And he was like, yeah, yeah, this
is fantastic. So he was the next ambassador because
he agreed to it and I had a recording. And he
is the one who created this. You should go on
our page and find the Ambassador Archive history
page. The video he made. as his ambassadorial
statement was fantastic. And it's like all these,
like, it's kind of like shot like a sci -fi movie
and it's him swiveling around in a chair and
saying things like, you need a soundtrack and
just this crazy Joshua sort of thing, but it
was perfect. And that's how ambassador videos
were born for us. So we got Jesse to create the
ambassadorship. We got this fluke of me talking
to Joshua and him saying, okay, and creating
this video. And then from there, it was just
kind of, you know, we talked to labels and management
all the time about what can we do year round?
Cause that's, that's something I hope we get
into as well is that record store day is not
just one day. It's not just two days. It's year
round because records come out all year round.
So as we're talking to people, we kind of, get
a sense of which artists make sense, which artists
you can, you always want an ambassador when you
announce them to be somebody that a person can
say, yeah, I get it. I see them in a record store.
I buy that. Okay. That makes sense. So there
are some artists that would be great for us in
terms of their reach, but may not necessarily
be. You might have to explain a little bit about,
no, no, they really do shop at record stores.
And we may or may not have had a few artists
that were a little bit more along that line,
but for the most part, when we are talking with
people about ambassadorships, it's actually pretty
easy because you're only going to have those
conversations with people who are already genuinely
get what you do, have at this point, most of
them have already. done a release for Record
Store Day or have made an appearance or have
somehow participated and celebrated with us.
So they kind of get it. You know, we have some
requests we make from the very beginning, which
is, you know, on our end, we need you to help
us spread the word. We need you to agree. You
know, you'll do some press. You'll make a video.
You'll be our ambassador. And they've all done
it in different ways. And they've all done it.
really well and authentically. And we've had
a couple people come to us and say, I want to
do this for you. And I'm pretty sure Chuck D
came to us, which is still fairly mind -blowing
to me. By the way, Chuck D, top five hugger.
He's an amazing hugger. And I don't think he'd
be upset with me saying that. Alright, so we're
talking about the fun part of the process coming
together. Let's talk a little bit about the challenges,
the marketing challenges involved in creating
a nationwide event with hundreds of independent
record stores across the country. I know we kind
of touched on that a little bit earlier, working
with your background in marketing and PR, how
you reach out to those people. So talk about
the evolution of that process. Sure. Well, I
mean, I think I mentioned we have about 1 ,200...
quote unquote, pledge sign stores. And I can
explain what a pledge is in just a minute. But
when we started, I think we were about 200 stores
is where we were. And some of those were easy
to get because my record store day is not my
day job. It's not my full time job. Record store
day is a project that kind of comes out of my
full time job. And that's the same situation
for everybody who runs or is kind of on the advisory
board of record store day. My real job. is director
of marketing for a coalition of indie record
stores. So when I said that we all worked with
record stores day in, day out, that's how we
knew they existed and were doing well or still
thriving and opening, it's because we all had
day jobs. There are three coalitions in the United
States. They're all various sizes. The types
of stores that are in them are a little bit different,
but they all came together. for marketing purposes
and business purposes. Because when you're an
independent store, either a single store or like
a three -store chain or whatever, you don't have
the power to call up a label with the same sort
of buying power or marketing message power as,
say, a Target or Best Buy or Tower or FYE or
any of those places. So the coalitions brought
these indies together, like -minded indies across
the country. into these three different coalitions,
and they do amazing work for the stores in terms
of marketing, in terms of being a liaison, and
that sort of thing. And Record Store Day is a
project that has grown out of those coalitions.
So the first year, all those coalition stores
were in. They were part of Record Store Day.
And some of them are very famous stores. Rasputin
in San Francisco, which is where Metallica was,
Bull Moose. up in Portland, Maine, Zia Records
in Arizona and Las Vegas, Waterloo, Easy Street
and Silver Platters up in Seattle, all over the
map. So those coalition stores were in because
they knew us and they trusted us. But then there
were other stores who were smaller maybe and
who didn't know us and who had been kind of kicking
it around for a while and finding maybe that
it wasn't as easy to do. what they had been doing,
you know, the industry's changing, times are
changing, things are getting a little tougher.
And then we come in, these people they don't
know, and say, hey, we're going to have this
day called Record Store Day, and it's about you.
You want to be part of it? We're not asking for
anything. Just, do you want to be part of it?
They didn't really trust us. You know, they don't
know. We could be the man. How do they know?
I mean, record store folks are generally nice
now, as I've said. They're not the Jack Black
character that they might have used to been.
But they're also by nature cynical, I think.
Almost every one of them, myself included. I
might have been like, what? What are you talking
about? That sounds ridiculous. I think every
business has to have some pause and some caution
in order to be successful. Absolutely. So that
first year, we did get kickback from some stores
who now are like kind of our most devoted record
stores. But I totally respect that, as you say,
that pause. So it grew year over year. It was
easier to get stores as we could go back and
tell the story. Oh, look, this is what this became.
The problem the first year is, just like I said,
we didn't know what it was going to be. Hey,
we're literally just having a party. Do what
you'd like to do. We'll help promote it. you
know, that could have fizzled. That could have
been nothing. But I do think we felt in our hearts
that people like record stores and this would
be a fun thing. There's no way we ever would
have known what it would grow to be, what it
has become, the opportunities it's brought, the
challenges it's brought. All of that has been
a learning process and continues to be. But from
that first year, it got easier because we were
able to go back and say, this happened here.
This happened here. This was successful. These
stores. did really well financially, and also
felt the love on that day, would you like to
be a part of it? That also was the case on the
label side and management side, because again,
artists don't want to do things that are stupid
or aren't going to be successful, and some of
them waited a couple years. Some of them still
wait to see, does that work? Did that work? Paul
McCartney gave us a quote the very first year,
which was huge, because he had just played at
Amoeba in Los Angeles. And he loved his experience.
Nick Hornby gave us a quote and Metallica played,
you know, signed in a store. And that, that was
kind of like a, a good signpost for us that we
were on our way and that we were onto something
there. But again, it all had to grow and people
had to trust us. And that goes back to what I
said about, we all are teaching ourselves all
of this along the way. And the whole way through,
all we do is. You treat people with respect.
You're honest with them. You're as transparent
as you can be about what your goals are, what
your intentions are. And this is a fun thing.
If it's a struggle for you to be with us on Record
Store Day, then don't worry yourself. Wait until
it makes sense. And that was kind of our approach
to all of this. We'd love to have you with us.
Let's think of a way to make that happen where
everybody's comfortable and everybody... feels
good about what we're doing. And that applies
to artists. It applies to customers. It applies
to stores. I get emails from customers all the
time. That's part of what I do is respond to
the email that comes in and the communication
between us and customers and us and stores is
often me. And people who don't really get the
idea get very upset that they didn't get their
special piece or the store didn't get. something
and they don't understand how things work or
what our actual goal is. And I've been able to
change people's minds and kind of talk them off
a ledge because people get really angry really
quickly. But just being as honest and transparent
and saying, I'm really sorry you didn't get that
record. Our goal was to celebrate the store.
Hopefully you got something else that you're
going to love. And this may sound weird coming
from someone at Record Store Day, but you didn't
get that record, you're going to live. It's okay.
So now I have to ask about that. Every year there
are hundreds of exclusive titles to Record Store
Day, whether they be regional or national exclusive
titles. Can you talk about the process that's
involved in securing each one of those releases?
Not every single one since the beginning, but
the general process that you need to go through.
to actually secure that exclusive Record Store
Day release. Sure. And that is, once again, man,
this is going to sound like I'm repeating myself,
but again, that is a process that has changed
and adapted and grown since the first year. The
first year, I think there were less than 20 titles,
and they were pretty much all from Warner Brothers,
because they were like, yeah, well, let's just
try this and see if it works. That wasn't even
necessarily always going to be a part of Record
Store Day. It made sense for it to be a part
of Record Store Day special releases. But it
wasn't the thing that wasn't in our head that
this was going to be the thing that happens on
Record Store Day. It has grown into the thing
that happens on Record Store Day, at least in
the morning. In the afternoon is when the parties
happen. But so, again, that's different with
almost every title. It could possibly be something.
And Michael Kurtz, who is a co -founder and someone
I've worked with for years at Record Stores.
This is kind of his, he's the captain of this
side of things. He works year round and is in
fact working right now with people on Record
Store Day titles, as well as Black Friday titles.
So he talks to people all the time. And it could
be an idea that he has and takes to the label
management or distribution. It depends on the
artist who you speak to in their world and says,
is this possible? Can we run this up? Can we
see what happens? Titles could morph from that,
become something else, become something bigger,
become something smaller, kind of fall by the
wayside. That's not going to work. Profit and
loss, that's not going to work for them for this.
For this year, it doesn't fall in the cycle of
this new release. And then sometimes labels,
quite often, labels and distribution will bring
things to us and make suggestions. And we have
got it down. as close to a quote -unquote science
as you possibly can with musical releases because
they're all different, they're all special, they're
all fantastic. We take that information and there
are a group of record store owners and buyers
and staff members from across the country, different
regions, different markets, big stores, small
stores, who kind of weigh in. They're not the
final say necessarily, but they weigh in and
say, yeah, that works, or look. We don't want
that to get swallowed up in the day. Like that's
too small a piece or that artist isn't well known
enough. We never want somebody to be excited
about doing something on Record Store Day and
then just feel like they were one of something
on a list. So we say no to things because we
want the day to feel good for everybody. And
it may be that your artist is too not well known
enough yet. Emerging artists, baby bands have
a tough time on Record Store Day because there
are Bob Dylan's on the list and Flaming Lips
on the list and U2 on the list and big things.
So we say yes or no. We help guide what the numbers
are. All of that gets discussed and worked through
and then it gets whittled down to what the final
list is going to be. And that final list always
feels really large. 300 titles, 350 titles. But
you have to keep in mind, Record Store Day is
for all kinds of record stores, all kinds of
customers. You always want the list to represent
somebody's favorite or something that someone
is going to like. And it's crazy. I mean, I ask
you to watch it to some extent when we launch
the list of Black Friday titles. But when we
launch the list of Record Store Day titles, Follow
the social media comments like when Pitchfork
or Consequences Sound or somebody reposts it
or when we post it. The social media comments
will be, this list sucks, that title's awful.
And then almost right underneath it will be somebody
saying, I can't wait for that title. Music is
subjective. Yeah, it's crazy to me, but heartening
at the same time. Like people will say, oh, this
list is awful. I only want five things on the
list. Well, that's fantastic. There are five
things you want to go buy at a record store.
Hallelujah. And by the way, the neighbor in your
office, he's got three things and they're completely
different than yours. And everybody's three things
make up the list. And that's, to me, that's,
you know, perfect. That's the way it should be.
But, you know, and that way you get into a whole
nother. conversation about social media and the
things I've learned and seen. But it's crazy.
Oh, this sucks because of this title. That's
my title I'm looking forward to. Well, let's
dive down that rabbit hole then. Yeah, of course.
How has social media benefited or hindered the
Record Store Day process? There's no question
that it's benefited us. I mean, the benefits
far outweigh. the annoyances or the problems
or the issues. And the idea that we are able
to kind of be a central focus point for people
finding stores near them, that still happens.
I mean, we get so much more traffic. We get a
lot of traffic on our website and we can see
who's going where and what pages are clicking
on. And it's people going to the store search,
looking for stores near them. or stores near
where they're going to be. You're traveling for
the summer. You're finding out where are the
record stores. And we know that people are using
us as a hub to find those stores. And I feel
like they're using our social media in the same
way. I'm chuckling because every time we go on
vacation, my wife knows that I'm always the first
thing I'm looking for. Like, oh, sure, yeah,
there's some beautiful beaches and lakes and
things to do in the area. But are there any record
stores? I mean, geez. Exactly. make the best
souvenirs right yes they really do and for people
that are music nerds like me i actually in my
mind i will pull out a cd and be like i remember
when i bought this in myrtle beach on our 10
year anniversary and my wife will look at me
like what like that how did you remember i said
oh of course i i was looking for this cd but
i found this one instead and it was so great
And it's just something that the only music,
true music consumers and collectors understand
that plight right there. So bear with me for
a moment. Cause I've got a, I got a side story
on that. Okay. We were talking about tower records
and when I, you know, growing up upstate New
York. Did your schools do the field trips at
the end of the year? You get to go to different
cities or whatever? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we
were going to New York City, and we somehow got
ourselves, the bus got down in front of a Tower
Records, and I said, we need to stop so I can
run in there. And I had been looking for the
1986 Transformers the movie soundtrack. And the
bus driver said, all right, you know, we got
about five, 10 minutes extra. We can go. The
chaperone said, go. We went in and we were just
like kids in candy stores, but we were kids in
a record store and we were just pawing through
this. And I found the last copy of that soundtrack.
And that's I still have that disc. I should hope
so. Oh, yeah. I mean, what a fantastic memory.
And I really wish someone had videoed a bus full
of kids running into a record store. I bet you
those record store employees were terrified to
see a board of students coming in at 13, 14 years
old, waving scads of money saying, buy my record.
Oh my gosh, that's fantastic. Let's bring this
part up because I know, and again, not to dwell
on the negative, but I know that this is an issue
that music fans and store owners and of course
your team have had to deal with, which is the
online flipping of your record store titles.
So people will go in, it's kind of like scalpers
on Ticketmaster. They go in, they wait, they
get the list, they go in on record store, they
scrape up a bunch of them and walk out and sell
them for a premium. Yeah. So I'm happy to talk
about this because that's what I do for the three
or four weeks before Record Store Day and then
the weeks afterward. And I'll say a couple things
starting with, man, they suck and I hate those
people. And they are a product of the society
we live in. And, you know, I just want everyone
to know. The ones I hate worse are the ones who
pre -sell and they list things on Record Store
Day from the day we launch the list. They will
take all the pictures, even though we watermark
them now that says buy it from a record store
so that people know, oh, this isn't someone who
has that record. They are literally taking the
artwork from Record Store Day, listing it on
eBay for usually $100, no matter what it is,
because that's easier. They can just batch list
things. And then they almost every time will
say at the bottom, this is a presale, this will
ship, and it always ships like three or four
days after Record Store Day. Because they go
out and they try and buy them. And people are
like, well, that just seems silly. But think
about it. If we have 300 titles on our list and
you're listing everything for $100 and people
are buying them because they're either A, too
lazy, or B, just want this and don't care about
supporting record stores, they will pre -buy
it and give you the $100. If you've got 300 things
listed at $100 each, that's a lot of money. So
you can even hire people to go shop at other
stores and wait in line and you have your list
and you buy the things. And we spend weeks before
Record Store Day and we are – I'm going to pat
myself on the back here. We are really good at
finding out if those listings are actually tied
to a store. That was my next question. How would
you do that? Well, we do a lot of – the internet
helps us because, A, sometimes people are really
dumb. And they forget they forget that we are
on the Internet, too. And we can look at things.
And I can't really go into too much detail because
I don't want to make people. Oh, no, no. Let
me rephrase. We don't want to encourage this
in any way. But that was my general question,
because if a store B finds out that they're getting
10 copies of a Bob Dylan album, maybe they're
going to put two out on the shelves and then
eight of them up on eBay. How do you know? Well,
in a lot of cases, we do know. And it really
comes down to things like Google Maps and home
buying records. And what is that address? I mean,
we are really good and we have been. And I hesitate
to go into too much more detail. No, of course
not. But it's a shame that you even have to deal
with a situation like this. It is. And I will
say that there are some. People on eBay who we
know who they are. We know where they live. We
have not tied them to a store yet. But every
year we ship a few off. And we've had people
banned from stores. We've had stores completely
banned from the list because it was them or their
employees. We've had stores who will never be
part of Record Store Day again. And I think I
mentioned the pledge earlier. The pledge also
grew out of things that are, as we learned, We
learned that people will open their store at
midnight, which is insane to me because this
is the day of the year. You could open your store
at 6 p .m. and you'd still have a line. It doesn't
matter, but you're opening at midnight. But that
is a disservice to your customers who didn't
get there at midnight and a disservice to your
other stores in your area who feel like they
have to open earlier. So we ask stores to do
three or four things. Don't open at midnight.
You have to be 8 a .m. or the equivalent time.
on the East Coast. So if you're on the West Coast,
you can open at 5 a .m. because it's 8 a .m.
on the East Coast time. So you can't gouge. There
are kind of price limits. There's a range of
pricing, but you can't gouge because in a weird
way, this day is not about you making all that
money on that release. You're going to make money
on that release because we've made sure there
is a margin for everyone who plays a part. There's
a margin for the distributor. There's a margin
for the label. There's a margin for Record Store
Day, by the way. does not have a part in that.
We play no part in the buying and selling or
distributing of the releases. We have nothing
to do with what gets ordered, what gets shipped,
what gets priced, and what gets put out on a
store rack. Nothing. We make no money on the
releases unless we have created and released
the title ourselves, which we've done three or
four times. Wow. One follow -up on that, though,
with the price gouging, from a marketing perspective,
If you were a record store owner and you were
price gouging, let's say the release was MSRP
of $29 .99 and you're putting it up for $74 .99,
you're not going to be getting any repeat business
out of it. So you're kind of defeating the whole
purpose of bringing the people into the store
for this holiday. Absolutely. And you know what
else? People love to snitch. They just love it.
And I'm fine with it. Like somebody will buy
that. This happens every year. Somebody will
buy that $74 record and they'll take a picture
of the receipt and they'll send it to me and
they'll say, this store was gouging. Isn't that
against the pledge? And I'll say, yes, it is.
And then we have a conversation with the store.
Wow. That's great. Wow. I mean, we have to take
this seriously. At the end of the day, it's a
business. It is a business, but think about it
this way. And a lot of stores don't. Record Store
Day is the biggest, most effective marketing
campaign your business will ever be a part of.
And you don't have to pay for it. Right, right.
I luckily in our area of New Jersey, there are
several record stores within very local distance
to where Jay and I are from. And the vibe in
the community around it is such a celebration
that the titles are as important as they are.
It's more of. vibe of sitting down and talking
music with other like -minded people that are
all excited to be there and to talk music. And
I feel like some of these negative things really
kind of suck the fun out of what the whole day
is about. And I wish people can just kind of
gather around and enjoy the, I use this term
in a positive way, the nerdery surrounding being
a music fan. And when I say like I'm able to,
you know, when somebody emails me and they're
really upset that they didn't get a record and
record store day sucks because I didn't get this
record or record store day sucks because this
record that I wanted is now for sale on eBay.
Record store day sucks. You suck. I'm not coming
back. And they they use harsher words because
they don't actually sometimes think there is
a human on the other end of what they're sending.
But I. almost always respond after a little while,
after I take a walk, respond and say, look, I'm
really sorry. Here's what Record Store Day is.
Here's what we intend. Here's what it's meant
to do. Here's the larger picture. Please don't
take what this awful person on eBay is doing
and blame us or the record stores because you
could pay $25 for a bag of $3 Oreos with Game
of Thrones on them when that finale was out on
eBay. When Target does a collaboration with a
clothing designer, people scoop everything into
a basket, take it home, and sell it on eBay.
It is not just us. It's sneakers. Oh, my God.
Sneaker drops, which happen every other day.
Those things sell out immediately. ever going
to get them on the street. You're going to get
them on eBay for three times more than they would
have been had you actually been able to line
up and go to your local Foot Locker or whatever
the store is now. And that happens with everything.
Everything that is desirable and limited is going
to be on eBay. It's not just us. So I do want
to follow up on that with, let's say there is
a title that you know is going to be the hot
title for Record Store Day. And let's say it's
limited to a thousand pressings. If you know
it's going to be hot and it's going to be going
up on eBay within seconds, is there any reason
why you would not press two, five, ten, twenty
thousand copies of it to make it more available?
Does that detract from the special aspect of
the release? And this is coming from just a question
that I would have if I missed out. Right. No,
and I totally understand that question. Here's
a two pronged answer. One, again, it depends
on the artist and it depends on, well, actually
it's a three pronged answer. One, we don't always
know what that title is going to be. We don't
always know. Sometimes it's a surprise what that
title is going to be. Two, it's not our decision.
Ultimately, it's the decision of the artist and
management, what that number is. And there have
been times when we will go back to them and say,
look, Store pre -orders for this are ridiculous.
Or even before it gets solicited to stores, we
think based on sales history, it needs to be
this number. And the artist will say, look, we
really want this to be limited and special. We
want that to be a very, very rare piece. And
it's not our decision to make, ultimately. And
if you go too far in the other direction, if
you do this too often and say, I mean, it's never
going to be an exact science, although we think
we're getting better. If, say, you think you
should make $3 ,000, the demand for that title
was actually $4 ,000. So what if you had made
$5 ,000? And then everybody could have gotten
what they wanted. Then there would be 1 ,000
pieces sitting either in record store shelves,
and if it's vinyl, they can't return it, or in
a distributor's warehouse, and that's money on
their books. or at a label, and that's money
on their books. And when the label does an exclusive
record shorty piece, they can't then take it
and sell it to anybody else. So they're stuck
with it. And that, over 12 years, little pieces,
little amounts, can add up. And we do not want
that. We do not want that more than anything.
Because that means... A, you don't have, for
stores, it means you don't have space. You don't
have the financial ability to turn and bring
in some new releases. You don't have, you know,
that's bad. You also don't want the labels or
distribution to be stuck with anything. And ideally,
we work very hard to say, okay, there's like
500 pieces of this title still remaining that
you can sell. And stores will understand this
piece is just as cool a week later as it was
the day before Record Store Day. It's not a loser
because it didn't sell on record store day. Someone's
going to walk into your store in six weeks, and
they're going to see this piece by this artist
that they loved, and it's exclusive to an indie
record store. That's amazing. Of course. I hate
it so much when the stores use the word leftover.
It's a joke at this point. Stores will forward
me social media posts from other stores that
call them leftovers because that has, to me,
like a negative connotation, much as I love Thanksgiving
leftovers. It's not that. It is an exclusive
indie piece that you can only get at record stores.
It doesn't matter if it's three weeks after record
store day or, you know. But that's the basic
answer is it's always better to have too few
than too many in the grand scheme of things,
no matter how many people didn't maybe get that
record. Of course. And the other thing, the two
days after record store day, when the most things
are being flipped on eBay. If you count up the
number of releases that were actually put out,
and I don't mean the actual titles that were
on the list, I mean there were 5 ,000 pieces
of this title, and you count up the actual physical
number of pieces that went out, and then you
count up the number of eBay sales, it's minuscule
compared to the number that actually went out
into the marketplace. So the majority of titles
are going home with people who are going to keep
them and listen to them. And stores have gotten
much better. A lot of stores can recognize you're
flipping, you're flipping, you're out. Stores
get great joy in doing that, actually. Of course,
because at the end of the day, that's showing
they're protecting their customers and letting
the customers that are there to purchase those
albums get their hands on it. Because then the
people, let's say Jay is the eBay flipper right
in front of me online and he gets the last copy
of an album I wanted. That record store knows.
That Jay is the flipper. So now you have the
guy in front in line who's screwing over the
record store, followed by the person who goes
to that record store all the time and supports
that business missing out on a title and therefore
leaving with a sour taste in their mouth. based
on that record store. So it's definitely a connection
between everything there. And for the record,
Jay is not an eBay flipper. I was just using
that. Good man, good man. Well, like I said,
we've been able to identify who some of these
flippers are, especially the ones who do pre
-orders. And one year we identified one and we
called the stores in his area. And one guy said,
oh gosh, yeah, he's on our frequent buyer club,
which means he's gonna get into the special line
to get in early. He's in our frequent buyer club.
The owner of the store waited until the morning
of record store day and went out and addressed
the line and said, hey, is this person here?
Are you in line? And the guy was in line. And
he's like, yeah, we know your eBay handle. Get
out. I mean, he just called him out in front
of everybody. I wouldn't recommend that always,
the way to handle it. But he really had a good
time that day. Wow. I mean, that is showing your
solidarity with your customers. Yeah. But at
the flip side, it is very confrontational. So
that would have been a very awkward thing to
see. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But kudos. It wasn't me.
I didn't have to do it. Right. It sends a very
strong message. I'll give them that. It's true.
It's true. So let's talk about what gave you
the idea to expand Record Store Day to Record
Store Black Friday. That's a pretty easy answer.
In the United States, for better or worse, love
it or hate it, Black Friday is the kickoff to
the shopping season of Christmas. season of gift
giving. And for too many years, record stores
were not a part of that. Even though every single
thing that is sold in a record store makes a
perfect gift. Every single thing, a gift card,
a 45 adapter, tiny little things up to box sets,
up to musical instruments, whatever you could
give as a gift. And it's a great gift. And so
we just decided, you know what? Again, it goes
back to the press and the focus. If Black Friday
is the biggest retail story in the United States,
we want to help make record stores a paragraph
in that story. And this is the way we do it.
It's different. It's not Record Store Day Junior.
The list is much smaller. The list is probably
more large items, box sets, more windowed titles,
which means eventually they'll be available.
you know, at other retailers or online. But for
right now, for the time period when you're looking
at buying gifts and going out and spending a
bunch of money on gifts for other people or making
a wish list for yourself, record stores are part
of that. And we're trying to make it not about
cheap mass produced gift items, more about quality
things, special things that you would want to
get or you will want to give. And it's not necessarily
made to sell out on that day. It's literally
the kickoff of the shopping season so that it's
just getting the word out there that there are
cool things in a record store all season long.
And you should do your gift giving it from a
record store. And the fact that Small Business
Saturday is the day after it is just a one -two
gift. Yeah, a win -win. Yes. Have you, in your
research, in the years you've been doing Record
Store Day Black Friday, because I know that started
kind of a few years after the inception of the
full holiday. Have you noticed in your data that
you guys have been capturing a different audience
on that day? Maybe not the normal record store
regulars, so to speak, that you're capturing
kind of an outside focus group here? Yeah. Yeah,
it is different. And I mean, a lot of our stuff
is anecdotal because you hear from stores rather
than we don't have somebody sitting there interviewing
people as they come in and out. How often do
you shop at a record store? Although, you know,
somebody gives us a grant, we'll definitely do
that. It is. And the day is structured a little
differently for the stores. It's much more of
a sales all day through and then on into Saturday
and then fading into Sunday. It's definitely
different clientele. And a lot of that is we've
been promoting the idea of the wish list. Like,
OK, you shop at a record store all the time.
Here are things you might want to tell your mom
or your kids or whoever that you would want so
they can come and get them for you. It's brilliant.
Brian and I have always said on the show, too,
right back to the first episode. that music is
probably one of the most personal things that
you could give somebody, the gift of music, in
any form, whether it be, like you mentioned,
whether it be the record or whether it be a musical
instrument or even a piece of a component to
a turntable or something that you have that you're
going to gift to somebody else. It speaks to
that person. deeply because you're in tune with
what their likes are, what they have a strong
attachment to. And another pun there with the
in tune. In tune. Yeah, nice. God, man, you guys
are good. Come up with taglines, left and right.
It's totally true. I mean, and that's what makes,
as a complete side note, that's what makes the
mixtape so, the idea of a mixtape so romantic.
Exactly. So what are some of your favorite record
story memories since its inception? Oh man, I
knew you were going to say that. So my favorite
record store memories, the very first record
store day, I was in Baltimore at the Soundgarden.
And it was also the day, the Soundgarden in Baltimore
is in Fells Point, which is right on the water.
It's historic. It's on a cobblestone street.
It's fantastic. It's one of my favorite record
stores in the world. And it was also Pirate Invasion
Day. That had to be interesting. It was fantastic.
And my little marketing mind was running around
like putting records in the hands of these pirates
and taking pictures and crossing the two. And
that was extraordinary. That was just such a
great day because that was the first one. And
it was like, this is going to be fantastic. And
then for the last record store days, most of
the record store days, I stay home in Raleigh,
North Carolina. A lot of what I do is on the
internet. We stream a lot of in stores from stores
across the country. We do a lot of posts and
just basically we keep up with the world through
the computer, which is fantastic and the best
possible use of social media. And so I do a lot
of that perched at a record store in Raleigh.
I'm the person who brings the donuts. to the
people standing in line really early in the morning
at about three record stores here. I bring pizza
in the afternoon. They all love me. Of course.
And, you know, a couple times I've been fortunate
to, there was a band that played at one of the
record stores, and their fan base was very young.
It skewed very young and very female. So there
was a line of probably about 300 teenage girls
and guys waiting to meet this band. And I was
the last person they talked to before they moved
up to meet the band. And I had tissues. I had,
hey, it's going to be great. I helped people
decide what they were going to say to the band,
which was almost always, thank you so much. I
love your music. And it was just, it was their
first experience with getting that close to their
idols. And it was their first experience at a
record store. And you could see it fusing together
in their heads. This place is awesome. And that's...
exactly what we want to happen. And that was
a really, really great moment. All right, with
Record Store Day almost here, let me know what
you are looking to pick up this year. You can
hit me up on social media at My Weekly Mixtape,
or you can also email me, myweeklymixtape at
gmail .com. Would love to hear if you found those
holy grails that you were looking for, or sadly,
if that eBay guy got to the album before you
did. But regardless, remember, you can find My
Weekly Mixtape on almost all the social media
haunts at... My Weekly Mixtape. You can also
head to myweeklymixtape .com to check out the
full catalog of My Weekly Mixtape episodes. And
if you like what you're hearing on the show,
remember you can help me out by either telling
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There you can find ad -free episodes of the show,
gain early access to future My Weekly Mixtape
episodes, chime in on... future topics, become
a guest curator and so much more. That's all
for this week. Thanks again for listening. And
until next time, I wish you and yours a safe,
healthy and happy record store day. And most
importantly, enjoy the tunes.