WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 Hi this is Frank Turner and you are lucky enough 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:04.900 to be listening to my weekly mixtape with Brian 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:07.419 Colberlin and good lord you've made the right 00:00:07.419 --> 00:00:10.720 choice today it's a killer show and for my part 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:12.300 we're going to get into the weeds but you should 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:14.000 listen to my episode and all the others as well. 00:00:25.589 --> 00:00:28.129 Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that 00:00:28.129 --> 00:00:30.670 takes the classic mixtape approach to building 00:00:30.670 --> 00:00:33.590 a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Culber. 00:00:33.869 --> 00:00:36.170 One of the things I'm excited to do each week 00:00:36.170 --> 00:00:38.530 on My Weekly Mixtape is speak with some of the 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:40.869 incredible artists whose music has been featured 00:00:40.869 --> 00:00:43.770 on countless mixtapes and playlists of mine. 00:00:43.929 --> 00:00:46.390 And one of those artists just so happens to be 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:49.100 my guest this evening. From his beginnings with 00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:52.219 the post -hardcore band Million Dead to his prolific 00:00:52.219 --> 00:00:55.140 solo career, I can't think of many playlists 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:57.500 of mine that don't feature my guest this evening, 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.740 and that is the amazing Frank Turner. Frank, 00:01:00.820 --> 00:01:03.079 thank you so much for joining me on My Weekly 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.700 Mixtape. Thank you for having me. I'm very flattered 00:01:05.700 --> 00:01:07.680 to be here, and that was a very lovely introduction. 00:01:07.859 --> 00:01:10.140 Thank you. Well, let's begin with the question 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:12.480 I like to ask every guest on the show. Frank, 00:01:12.659 --> 00:01:15.799 what does the word mixtape mean to you personally? 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:20.739 Uh, well, I mean, I am, uh, ancient enough to 00:01:20.739 --> 00:01:23.040 have been very much a child of the mixtape era 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.680 and very much mixed tapes, not mixed CDs. I mean, 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.019 that came later to a degree, but, um, uh, I made 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:32.340 a lot of mixtapes when I was a kid for friends, 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.700 for myself, got given them. I did a fair amount 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:38.900 of tape trading when I first got into punk rock. 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:41.959 When I was about 15, I went to my first hardcore 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:46.920 show and a guy called Lil, who runs a label after 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.140 the show because i didn't really know what hardcore 00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:51.739 was and i just went and had my mind blown by 00:01:51.739 --> 00:01:54.939 agnostic front funnily enough um and uh lil sent 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:57.200 me a mixtape of uk hardcore bands and that was 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.700 a very pivotal moment for me i made mixtapes 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:02.239 for people i fancied when i was a kid i do i 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:03.799 don't know if you are familiar with the song 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.060 there's a band called as friends rust that had 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:08.259 a song called the first song on the tape that 00:02:08.259 --> 00:02:11.219 you make her um which is a song about making 00:02:11.219 --> 00:02:12.800 a mixtape with somebody and putting a really 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:15.360 obvious kind of romantic gesture song as the 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.939 first song on it Which was, I remember hearing 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:20.139 that song, it is now getting very meta, but just 00:02:20.139 --> 00:02:23.740 being kind of like, oh, yeah, rumbled kind of 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.280 thing. It was very on the nose. So, yeah, you 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.960 know, they mean a lot to me. You know, they're 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.759 a big part of my musical upbringing. I see, funnily 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:35.800 enough, when we made, I remember years ago, 10 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.699 years ago, having conversation with Rich Costi, 00:02:37.699 --> 00:02:39.580 the producer who I made Take Deck Heart with, 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:42.900 which obviously is at least in part a reference 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:46.090 to mixtapes. and um we both agreed that a classic 00:02:46.090 --> 00:02:49.150 record should be no longer than 45 minutes so 00:02:49.150 --> 00:02:52.430 that it fits on one side of a c90 cassette all 00:02:52.430 --> 00:02:55.990 right yeah well since this show is centered around 00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:58.689 the art of curating mixtapes i've spent the last 00:02:58.689 --> 00:03:01.909 week putting together a songs of frank turner 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:04.310 mixtape to tie into our discussion this evening 00:03:04.310 --> 00:03:07.500 so These are songs that I feel both resonate 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:11.340 with me personally as a fan, as well as songs 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:13.879 that I feel are important in telling the story 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.800 of your music to someone who may not have heard 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.960 it before. So the first song that I've chosen 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.840 is Recovery from the album you just mentioned, 00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:27.000 2013's Tape Deck Heart. When I introduce anyone 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.659 to your music, this is my immediate go -to song. 00:03:30.430 --> 00:03:33.409 did you as the writer have any idea 10 years 00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:36.449 ago when you released tape deckhart just how 00:03:36.449 --> 00:03:38.689 much this song would resonate with your fans 00:03:38.689 --> 00:03:43.289 uh no is the short answer to your question and 00:03:43.289 --> 00:03:45.590 if i had even had an inkling of that i probably 00:03:45.590 --> 00:03:47.150 would have done my best to put that out of my 00:03:47.150 --> 00:03:50.449 mind i i over the years have learned that i think 00:03:50.449 --> 00:03:52.210 it's really important to just let someone be 00:03:52.210 --> 00:03:53.610 what it's going to be while you're writing and 00:03:53.610 --> 00:03:56.330 recording it and if you spend too much time sort 00:03:56.330 --> 00:03:59.050 of thinking or even like aiming for some sort 00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:02.939 of like grander design then it tends to become 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:05.840 sort of like noticeably assets quite quickly 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.199 in my experience you know it's like it starts 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:10.840 getting tacky somehow so i mean the recovery 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.360 is a funny one for me like having said what i 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:15.580 just said i remember kind of like finishing i 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:18.439 still believe for example which was before recovery 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:20.899 was my most sort of well popular song should 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:23.459 we say and i kind of like you know the first 00:04:23.459 --> 00:04:25.000 few times very live it was like oh yeah this 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.360 one's this one's gonna last and do well you know 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:30.819 this will do Recovery wasn't really like that. 00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:32.639 It felt like a very honest piece of writing. 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.000 I was pleased with it when I wrote it. The arrangement 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.879 for it came together pretty naturally with Sleeping 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.939 Souls. Almost, I don't have vast memories of 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:44.420 writing it because it just sort of came together 00:04:44.420 --> 00:04:47.379 pretty well and pretty easily. And I was pleased 00:04:47.379 --> 00:04:50.660 with it, you know what I mean? But it was a pleasant 00:04:50.660 --> 00:04:52.939 surprise when it sort of became, and it remains 00:04:52.939 --> 00:04:56.110 probably my best known song. It very briefly 00:04:56.110 --> 00:04:58.269 got to number one on the AAA rate slot on American 00:04:58.269 --> 00:05:01.129 radio, which back in 2013, 10 years ago, which 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:04.889 was crazy thing at the time. I always remember 00:05:04.889 --> 00:05:07.829 when the album, when the single, and then the 00:05:07.829 --> 00:05:09.490 later the album first came out for the first 00:05:09.490 --> 00:05:11.290 stretch of that period of time, I was on tour 00:05:11.290 --> 00:05:14.610 in America, really doing the grunt work, you 00:05:14.610 --> 00:05:17.329 know, but it had also been successful on radio 00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:20.709 in the UK. I sort of like knew this in a hypothetical 00:05:20.709 --> 00:05:23.569 way. You know what I mean? And then we came, 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:25.149 we flew back from the States and went straight 00:05:25.149 --> 00:05:28.610 into a UK tour. And I remember we were playing 00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:29.889 Master of Cannabis with about two and a half 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:33.129 thousand people, which is a solid number of people 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:36.089 to play to. And it was like, oh, well, it's the 00:05:36.089 --> 00:05:38.449 new single and it's probably not bedded in. We've 00:05:38.449 --> 00:05:40.050 got to play it, but I'm not going to make it 00:05:40.050 --> 00:05:42.069 like the last song of the night or whatever. 00:05:42.629 --> 00:05:44.470 Let's bed it in probably about a third of the 00:05:44.470 --> 00:05:46.689 way into the set just to sort of ease people 00:05:46.689 --> 00:05:49.300 into the new material. We'll bookend it with 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:51.699 two kind of popular songs from the previous records 00:05:51.699 --> 00:05:54.319 just to kind of make it easy for the crowd to 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:55.879 get into it. And we dropped that song and the 00:05:55.879 --> 00:06:00.439 entire room blew up. Everybody knew every single 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.240 word to that song, to the new song. And I remember 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.560 the five of us standing on stage each other being 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:09.699 like, what the fuck is going on? Like, not in 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:12.839 a bad way, but it was like, oh, okay, I see. 00:06:12.980 --> 00:06:15.420 That was a new experience for me at the time. 00:06:16.490 --> 00:06:18.889 so i'm very grateful to that song you know um 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:21.930 that song uh you know paid for about half of 00:06:21.930 --> 00:06:26.209 my house well one of my favorite lyrics from 00:06:26.209 --> 00:06:29.449 the song is because i know you are a cynic but 00:06:29.449 --> 00:06:31.629 i think i can convince you yeah because broken 00:06:31.629 --> 00:06:34.129 people can get better if they really want to 00:06:34.129 --> 00:06:36.490 or at least that's what i have to tell myself 00:06:36.490 --> 00:06:40.569 if i'm hoping to survive lyrically this is a 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:44.620 very inward facing reflective song which is almost 00:06:44.620 --> 00:06:48.560 a complete 180 from the more bombastic outward 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:52.160 facing tracks on england keep my bones was that 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.839 something you were setting out to do with this 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:58.339 album yeah and i mean to the to the extent that 00:06:58.339 --> 00:07:01.939 i uh direct pre -direct my writing which again 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:03.879 is something i sort of try not to do too much 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:06.339 of but the short answer question is yes like 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:08.480 at that moment in my career like in chemo bones 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:10.240 have been my most successful record yet it got 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.100 me to like headlining my first arena show it 00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:14.339 went gold we've done all this big stuff on a 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:16.579 big record that was about big themes like national 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:19.420 identity and death and mortality and all this 00:07:19.420 --> 00:07:22.120 sort of thing i like i'm i'm a reasonably kind 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:26.100 of like um contrarian stubborn pig -headed person 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:28.939 and it was kind of like well you know if everything's 00:07:28.939 --> 00:07:30.939 kind of doing that with my career it would be 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:33.339 interesting to write a record that did the opposite 00:07:33.339 --> 00:07:36.689 of what is expected now you know like the sort 00:07:36.689 --> 00:07:38.550 of obvious thing to me seemed to be to like write 00:07:38.550 --> 00:07:42.610 a muse album or whatever grand yet grander themes 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:44.269 and like all love and respect for me but it was 00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:46.889 like let's not do that it was helped of course 00:07:46.889 --> 00:07:49.930 by the fact that i was going through a particularly 00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:51.790 unpleasant breakup at the time that was entirely 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:56.209 of my own making and my own fault and the kind 00:07:56.209 --> 00:07:58.329 of the one of the themes of that album take back 00:07:58.329 --> 00:07:59.610 heart was i thought it would be interesting to 00:07:59.610 --> 00:08:00.970 write a breakup record from the point of view 00:08:00.970 --> 00:08:03.519 of the perpetrator rather than the victim I mean, 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:05.879 it helped that that's what was happening at the 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:07.959 time. But, you know, it was like I was making 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:10.500 a mess of my life and it was kind of a series 00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:15.779 of unforced errors. And I had many thoughts about 00:08:15.779 --> 00:08:19.019 that, you know. So, yeah. But the idea of kind 00:08:19.019 --> 00:08:20.839 of making something small and inward facing at 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.139 that moment in my career was kind of an interesting 00:08:23.139 --> 00:08:25.240 one to me. The other thing, incidentally, that 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:28.189 you quote in that made me think I was like. I'm 00:08:28.189 --> 00:08:30.209 really proud of, technically speaking, of the 00:08:30.209 --> 00:08:32.450 way that the song is so tightly structured lyrically. 00:08:32.570 --> 00:08:35.549 There's not a syllable out of place. And I do 00:08:35.549 --> 00:08:39.070 remember label people and producers sort of suggesting 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:42.289 maybe that it could have one or two fewer syllables 00:08:42.289 --> 00:08:44.090 in. And I remember being in the studio and being 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:46.769 like, no, I have written this song and it goes 00:08:46.769 --> 00:08:49.950 like this and every single one is in the right 00:08:49.950 --> 00:08:52.289 place. And like there's bits of the song which 00:08:52.289 --> 00:08:54.470 in first listen might sound rhythmically loose. 00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:56.570 And let me tell you, they really aren't. It's 00:08:56.570 --> 00:08:58.970 a very, very precise piece of writing from a 00:08:58.970 --> 00:09:02.009 rhythmic structural point of view. Awesome. Awesome. 00:09:02.309 --> 00:09:04.669 Well, moving on, the next song I'd like to bring 00:09:04.669 --> 00:09:08.649 up is The Next Storm from 2015's Positive Songs 00:09:08.649 --> 00:09:11.929 for Negative People. To me, this track truly 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:15.669 defines the album's title. Was that your intent? 00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:18.730 And what's the story behind this song lyrically? 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.179 Uh, this, okay, the story behind, there's a good 00:09:22.179 --> 00:09:23.940 story behind the lyrics of this song. The first 00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:25.940 thing to say is that like the first draft of 00:09:25.940 --> 00:09:28.000 this song, very, very quiet vocals and guitar 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.179 only, like almost like Elliot Smithy type kind 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:34.159 of vibe, really, really like recorded into a 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:37.700 hotel answer phone at 3am, sort of just a tinny 00:09:37.700 --> 00:09:39.600 little acoustic guitar and a whispered voice. 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.519 And, uh, my bass player Tarrant was like, this 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:44.379 is a good song and we should try playing it with 00:09:44.379 --> 00:09:47.100 the full band. And I was like, no. Then I was 00:09:47.100 --> 00:09:48.679 like, okay, maybe we'll give it a try. And then 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.100 pretty much the first run through, I just sort 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:52.580 of showed everyone the chords and was like, let's 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:54.220 play it like Thin Lizzy was what I said. And 00:09:54.220 --> 00:09:55.639 then we ran it through and it was like, bang. 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:59.399 And it was pretty much as it is now. But lyrically, 00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:01.460 I had this image in my head when I was writing 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:03.580 the words to this song. Some songs I write come 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:05.580 quickly, some come slowly. This one came slowly. 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.720 I remember kind of dragging this song out of 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.379 myself line by line. But I had this image in 00:10:10.379 --> 00:10:14.309 my mind of the Wizard of Oz. And I was absolutely 00:10:14.309 --> 00:10:16.370 convinced there was a scene at the end of The 00:10:16.370 --> 00:10:19.950 Wizard of Oz when Dorothy wakes up in Kansas 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:23.830 and then tidies up with her family after the 00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:26.230 tornado. And that was kind of what was on my 00:10:26.230 --> 00:10:28.750 mind. And I wrote the song and recorded the song 00:10:28.750 --> 00:10:31.330 and recorded a video for it and released it as 00:10:31.330 --> 00:10:33.870 a single and started doing press for it, which 00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:38.259 is a long process. mentioned this and pretty 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:39.779 much the first interview i said this to is like 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:44.179 that scene totally isn't it and i was like what 00:10:44.179 --> 00:10:46.879 and and i hadn't thought at any point to check 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.960 and uh and there is no scene like that and that's 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.320 all i've completely fabricated it somebody later 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.100 pointed out that the film i'm reasonably sure 00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:56.559 i hadn't seen which i think is called whiz which 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:59.159 starred michael jackson which is sort of a sequel 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:02.639 to to whiz was does have that scene in it kind 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.120 of at the beginning and i don't know i'm pretty 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.750 sure i haven't seen that film And I'm slightly 00:11:07.750 --> 00:11:09.690 kind of not going to touch the Michael Jackson 00:11:09.690 --> 00:11:13.029 thing with a barge pole these days. But it was 00:11:13.029 --> 00:11:14.950 a strange thing. I've sort of fabricated this 00:11:14.950 --> 00:11:16.409 idea in my head. I mean, it's still, you know, 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:18.990 it's not like integral to the song that that 00:11:18.990 --> 00:11:22.029 scene exists. And so maybe it's more of a piece 00:11:22.029 --> 00:11:24.330 of fiction than I'd imagined it to be. But yeah, 00:11:24.389 --> 00:11:26.809 it is that idea. I mean, I do remember sometimes 00:11:26.809 --> 00:11:29.429 album titles come at the beginning of writing 00:11:29.429 --> 00:11:30.889 a process, sometimes right at the end, sometimes 00:11:30.889 --> 00:11:32.830 halfway through. In this instance, I had the 00:11:32.830 --> 00:11:35.490 album title before I had any songs. It was a 00:11:35.490 --> 00:11:37.820 thing. I said to a friend of mine over dinner 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:39.899 one night, I was like, that's what I'm trying 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:42.720 to do with my life is write positive songs for 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.220 negative people. Then I went, holy shit. You 00:11:46.220 --> 00:11:48.940 know, write that down. But I mean, I'm not so 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:51.080 much that it was necessarily a case of like, 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:53.860 once again, calculatively writing towards that 00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:56.200 idea. It's more just that there was a good description 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:59.279 of where my head was at. And a lot of that record 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:02.340 and this song was about kind of dealing with 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:05.169 the kind of. aftermath i mean tape deck heart 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:07.730 was a big record you know we we toured we did 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:09.929 an insane tour schedule on it we sold a lot of 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:12.230 records we had big radio heads and stuff and 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:14.409 you know my personal life kind of fell apart 00:12:14.409 --> 00:12:17.049 during the writing of it and uh i was kind of 00:12:17.049 --> 00:12:20.350 like going crazy and having fun but also kind 00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:22.590 of like running myself ragged and it was like 00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:25.350 oh let's try and kind of like reassemble something 00:12:25.350 --> 00:12:28.149 approaching a private life i guess was sort of 00:12:28.149 --> 00:12:30.860 the vibe Well, something you mentioned at the 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:32.460 beginning of your answer there, I do want to 00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:34.299 touch on because you talked about just playing 00:12:34.299 --> 00:12:36.580 a guitar and just being you and a guitar and 00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:38.679 something you've done on a lot of the deluxe 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:42.139 editions of your albums is release solo acoustic 00:12:42.139 --> 00:12:44.919 versions or acoustical arrangements of the songs 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:48.240 because you play in both a full band as well 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.700 as solo acoustic shows. Is that kind of the mindset 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:53.840 for including these alternate renditions? Yeah, 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.740 I mean, that's part of it. You know, like it's 00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:57.840 good. I could, generally speaking, try and have 00:12:57.840 --> 00:12:59.679 an acoustic version of any song that I've done. 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:01.659 There's one or two in the repertoire that doesn't 00:13:01.659 --> 00:13:04.980 quite work for non -Servian being an obvious 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:07.720 choice. But like, you know, it's practical to 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.759 have that. I also then do, generally speaking, 00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:13.059 subscribe to the idea that it's good. A song, 00:13:13.179 --> 00:13:16.860 it's a good song if it has a spine to it that 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:18.759 you can strip everything else away and just have 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.179 one person play it. I think that's a sign of 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.559 a solid piece of writing. That's not to belittle 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:26.519 arrangement as a concept and as a art form, but 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.639 nevertheless, it's good to have that. But also, 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:30.559 I mean, I don't know. I just, as a fan, I like 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.399 it, you know, like Billy Bragg quite often has 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.860 records, you know, acoustic versions of his records. 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:38.419 I know some people sort of prefer that version 00:13:38.419 --> 00:13:42.809 of me and I like to make people happy. You're 00:13:42.809 --> 00:13:45.950 certainly doing that. And this next song is actually 00:13:45.950 --> 00:13:48.450 one that has helped me during a tough time. So 00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:50.710 I'd like to bring it up now. And that is from 00:13:50.710 --> 00:13:54.330 2022's FTHC. I'm going to go with Haven't Been 00:13:54.330 --> 00:13:57.370 Doing So Well. As someone who's dealt with anxiety 00:13:57.370 --> 00:14:00.289 since childhood, this song really hit the nail 00:14:00.289 --> 00:14:02.629 on the head for me. And when you take lyrics 00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:05.529 like, and I keep it all in with my idiot grin 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:07.610 and I'm doing my best, but there's very little 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:10.090 left. So cut me some slack if I crawl back into 00:14:10.090 --> 00:14:13.120 my shell. i haven't been doing so well and you 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.220 layer them with this uplifting musical backdrop 00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:18.559 like you said positive songs for negative people 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.740 to me this song feels like an empowering hey 00:14:21.740 --> 00:14:25.759 man you're not alone with this and that's that's 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.059 powerful to me was that what you were going for 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:31.460 with this track uh well first of all thank you 00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:34.360 very much that's very kind words um kind of i 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:35.740 mean i think that one of the things i've learned 00:14:35.740 --> 00:14:37.799 over the years is like if you try and write a 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.649 song that's kind of like gonna do x for y group 00:14:41.649 --> 00:14:45.250 of people or whatever it just doesn't quite happen 00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:47.509 it again it sort of ends up being kind of fake 00:14:47.509 --> 00:14:50.450 to me and like almost in some ways like successful 00:14:50.450 --> 00:14:52.149 songwriting is a little bit like a magic eye 00:14:52.149 --> 00:14:54.129 picture you have to see it by not quite seeing 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:56.750 it you know so like um one of the things i sort 00:14:56.750 --> 00:15:00.370 of do is like um you you have to kind of write 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:02.129 for yourself and then just sort of cross your 00:15:02.129 --> 00:15:04.149 fingers and hope against hope that somebody else 00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:06.710 is going to care or it will resonate with them 00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:10.340 whatever if you sit down to resonate with people 00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:13.179 you don't know that's gonna just sound creepy 00:15:13.179 --> 00:15:16.100 to my mind or at least it's gonna sound like 00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:18.639 a marketing department you know and like which 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.679 is not what people want to hear um so you know 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:23.759 i guess like the with some of the things of that 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.519 song first of all like you know i i have been 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.179 engaging with therapy for my mental health more 00:15:29.179 --> 00:15:31.820 in the last few years than i well i mean i hadn't 00:15:31.820 --> 00:15:35.519 at all until i got some help for a substance 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.720 abuse issue and it you know which i'm pleased 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.659 to say is currently in my rearview mirror which 00:15:40.659 --> 00:15:43.940 is excellent news uh you'll be staggered to discover 00:15:43.940 --> 00:15:45.840 that we sort of came across the idea that maybe 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:47.840 all of that was more of a symptom than anything 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.820 else and that there was some other shit to deal 00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:52.720 with underneath so yeah so on we on we go but 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:54.980 like i had this kind of breakthrough moment in 00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:59.919 probably 2020 or 2021 when i was talking to my 00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:01.980 therapist and describing these kind of situations 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:05.080 that i have And that I had for a long time, but 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:06.600 they were sort of like slightly overshadowed 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.559 by the kind of chemical after effects of kind 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:10.960 of taking a lot of drugs. And I was sort of explaining 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.039 this. And my therapist was like, well, I mean, 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:17.779 that's an anxiety attack. And I was like, huh? 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:20.320 And she was like, I mean, that's almost like 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.740 the most textbook, tediously average description 00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:24.919 of an anxiety attack I've ever heard anyone give 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:28.639 me. And it was just like. is it and she said 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:30.899 yeah that's what that is and obviously i've heard 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:33.100 people use that expression and i have friends 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:34.940 who have dealt with that at great length and 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:37.539 all the rest and i had just never ever it never 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.539 crossed my mind to point that word that phrase 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:45.759 in my own direction before and it was so empowering 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.440 liberating whatever word you want to use to kind 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:52.019 of go ha is that what that is okay that doesn't 00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:54.179 solve the problem fucking hell like it's still 00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:57.580 a part of my life but it's you know you can begin 00:16:57.580 --> 00:17:01.620 to engage with with tool sets to deal with that 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:03.320 kind of thing the the other and then the other 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:04.640 thing with that song that that was a song that 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.940 came quickly um because i sort of i had okay 00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.519 so brief aside there's this thing every like 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:13.119 record level dude in the world is haunted by 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:14.759 the story of the song dancing in the dark by 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:16.579 bruce springsteen the story goes he'd finished 00:17:16.579 --> 00:17:18.980 the album the label said can you write one more 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:21.500 single and he was just like god damn it and sat 00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:23.640 down and wrote that song in like 45 minutes and 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.410 it was the hit for the record um you know they 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:28.410 said they said apparently john lando said john 00:17:28.410 --> 00:17:31.849 we need a spark to light a fire dancing in the 00:17:31.849 --> 00:17:34.269 dark so there you go um and like the problem 00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:36.089 with that is that every label guy you put you 00:17:36.089 --> 00:17:38.289 you turn in an album and they go hey you could 00:17:38.289 --> 00:17:40.289 just write one more song because it might be 00:17:40.289 --> 00:17:42.289 dancing in the dark and it's fucking annoying 00:17:42.289 --> 00:17:44.230 because you spent two years working on the record 00:17:44.230 --> 00:17:46.150 you're like you're just saying that because the 00:17:46.150 --> 00:17:49.049 fucking springsteen story anyway i had pretty 00:17:49.049 --> 00:17:50.390 much had that with the record they were like 00:17:50.390 --> 00:17:52.130 i could do with like another song to just sort 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:55.009 of and i was like fucking knew you were going 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:57.410 to say that you assholes so i sat down and and 00:17:57.410 --> 00:18:00.670 kind of i had some musically some bits and bobs 00:18:00.670 --> 00:18:04.609 lying around but i also had this line in my notebook 00:18:04.609 --> 00:18:06.589 that had been around for ages and this is often 00:18:06.589 --> 00:18:08.829 how songwriting works for me i keep a notepad 00:18:08.829 --> 00:18:10.650 i keep notes on my phone whatever i remember 00:18:10.650 --> 00:18:14.210 being on the underground in london once years 00:18:14.210 --> 00:18:17.589 ago and just sort of like feeling really kind 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:21.279 of run down and worn out because of I think I'd 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.880 like done a bunch of shows, but also there had 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.859 been sort of music industry socializing, which 00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:26.759 is quite often quite powder fueled, should we 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.500 say, and all the rest. And just feeling like 00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:30.299 I couldn't really hack it and just saying to 00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:32.099 myself, like, I wonder, you know, I've got the 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:34.119 sneaking suspicion that I might not be cut out 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.299 to be the kind of person that I'm expected to 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:40.160 be physically, mentally, however you want to 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.660 put it. And I remember just going, hmm, there's 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.779 something there. I'm writing that down. So now 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:47.519 fast forward to 2021 or whenever it was and the 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:49.099 label going, write another song. And I was like, 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.579 ah. fuck you guys and so you flicked through 00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:53.180 the notepad and that one jumped out and then 00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:54.660 it kind of basically sat down and wrote that 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:57.700 song kind of angrily but you know often good 00:18:57.700 --> 00:18:59.859 songwriting is just it's nakedly honest and it's 00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:02.859 just kind of like this is how i'm feeling and 00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:05.259 that's where that song kind of came from and 00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:07.420 it kind of worked which is so annoying because 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:08.960 it means that the guys on record label were right 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.759 and it's just like Bastards. I'm sorry to give 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.759 them the plus one on that because I absolutely 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.299 love the track. Well, you know what? So do I. 00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:20.319 So, you know, I'm going to take my oil in it. 00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:23.259 But still, God damn it. Well, following that 00:19:23.259 --> 00:19:26.140 one up is a song that follows kind of lyrically 00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:28.359 in the same vibe, but is a completely on the 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:30.319 other end of the spectrum. And that is Don't 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.079 Worry, the opening track from 2018's Be More 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.039 Kind. This song peels back the heft and dials 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.670 in almost. an acoustic Americana vibe, for lack 00:19:40.670 --> 00:19:42.930 of a better word, and really shows the breadth 00:19:42.930 --> 00:19:46.349 of the music in your catalog. For your albums, 00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:49.769 does the track -by -track sequencing and album 00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:52.950 dynamics come into play while you're writing 00:19:52.950 --> 00:19:55.809 and recording, or do you look at that final batch 00:19:55.809 --> 00:19:59.690 of songs and then arrange them to tell the album's 00:19:59.690 --> 00:20:03.930 overall story? I would prefer it if the answer 00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:07.730 was option B. but there's a little bit of auctioneer 00:20:07.730 --> 00:20:11.329 in there you know like for example i'm working 00:20:11.329 --> 00:20:15.049 on a new record right now and i've got a pile 00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:17.990 of songs going on but there is this one song 00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:19.910 and i'm like that is so the first track on the 00:20:19.910 --> 00:20:22.750 next record like and the thing is i'm not gonna 00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:26.970 like commit to that like irrevocably because 00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:29.170 you just don't until the whole thing's finished 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:31.569 and there is a wonderful moment the sequencing 00:20:31.569 --> 00:20:33.349 of a record which is a little bit like making 00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:35.839 a mixtape and quite often what i'll do to sequence 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:37.460 the record you do it with post -it notes on each 00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:39.759 post -it note you write the title but you kind 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.019 of write other details on it like what key it's 00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:44.200 in and like whether it's kind of up tempo or 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:46.940 down tempo or thematically what it's about whatever 00:20:46.940 --> 00:20:49.779 you want and then you do two lists because you've 00:20:49.779 --> 00:20:51.960 got a and b side of a vinyl which i still very 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.279 much believe in you know and you start swapping 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:56.000 them around and it's kind of almost like it's 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:57.859 like whack -a -mole or like magnets whatever 00:20:57.859 --> 00:20:59.519 you like if you well if i put that one there 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.160 then that one can't go there which has to go 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.059 there that one's there and that one has to go 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:05.380 somewhere else and it's kind of fun you know 00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:07.440 you sort of and then you make like four different 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:09.140 versions and you drive around your car listening 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:11.900 to them or whatever and then you set the whole 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:13.099 thing on fire and go back to where you started 00:21:13.099 --> 00:21:16.119 or whatever it is um so there's a degree of that 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.059 i mean don't worry it was kind of a interesting 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:19.960 song we've actually weirdly enough revived that 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:21.900 song on this tour that we're on right now for 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.559 the first time in well it is five years six years 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:29.160 even and um uh i was really when we were making 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.859 that record be more kind i was I had some slightly 00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:34.380 kind of left field musical obsessions going on, 00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:35.920 and one of which was kind of working with more 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.640 kind of like programmed sequencing kind of instruments, 00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:40.799 which we did on that record. Not so much on this 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.619 song. I was also terminally obsessed with Bill 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.599 Withers at the time, of whom I'm a huge fan. 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.819 And then I guess in a way to the more broadly 00:21:49.819 --> 00:21:51.779 kind of Motown, but I was on this trip of like 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:54.339 simplicity. And like Don't Worry is both kind 00:21:54.339 --> 00:21:56.640 of musically and lyrically and in terms of its 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.910 vocabulary and all the rest. is about as simple 00:22:00.910 --> 00:22:04.589 as i can personally make a song and i and i think 00:22:04.589 --> 00:22:07.289 that in many ways writing simple songs is a lot 00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:10.230 harder than writing complicated songs um stripping 00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:13.490 it all the way and i've always loved weezer particularly 00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:15.529 early weezer i find hugely inspirational because 00:22:15.529 --> 00:22:18.410 it's just there's nothing there the drummer just 00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:20.549 kicks there kicks there fuck you dylan driscoll 00:22:20.549 --> 00:22:24.230 plans you know what i mean it's like um and there's 00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:27.339 and it's like once you're that kind of naked 00:22:27.339 --> 00:22:30.420 it's either a good song or a bad song you know 00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.920 i i should add that i love dillinger escape plan 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.339 but like at a certain point if a song qualifies 00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:37.740 as a gender escape plan it just sort of is do 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.839 you know what i mean it's quite hard to sort 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:40.799 of pass whether or not it's like a good dillinger 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:42.579 escape plan or a bad dillinger escape plan it's 00:22:42.579 --> 00:22:46.160 4 000 miles an hour it's in 13 8 like okay um 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.039 whereas you know if you play just a vocal and 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.700 a guitar or just with simple drums or whatever 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.019 it is there's time for everybody including the 00:22:54.019 --> 00:22:56.859 audience to sort of pause Is this good or bad? 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.640 And there's something that's scary about that 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.440 to me. Again, no disrespect to Thunder Escape. 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.920 I do love that band. Of course, of course. But 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:06.480 yeah, so Don't Worry, it was just kind of like, 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:10.619 it's just like, blah, blah. And with claps instead 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:12.619 of snares and stuff, you know, and it was like, 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.759 don't worry if you don't know what to do. It's 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.529 pretty naked. And that's what I love about your 00:23:19.529 --> 00:23:22.049 music as a whole. I'd like to go back a long 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:26.029 time now and go back to 2008's Love, Iron Song 00:23:26.029 --> 00:23:30.349 and the song Photosynthesis, as well as you re 00:23:30.349 --> 00:23:34.569 -recorded it for 2017's Songbook. Yeah. Lyrically. 00:23:34.809 --> 00:23:38.690 And I won't sit down and I won't shut up. And 00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:43.349 most of all, I will never grow up. 15 years later, 00:23:43.569 --> 00:23:46.089 have those lyrics taken on a new meaning for 00:23:46.089 --> 00:23:50.740 you? yeah i mean yes is the short answer and 00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.539 like i'm super proud of the iron song and you 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:55.720 know it was the first record so i kind of did 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.700 that really like i felt like wow i'm a writer 00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:02.000 but uh i it is interesting to me in retrospect 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.660 that i at age 25 i wrote quite a lot of songs 00:24:04.660 --> 00:24:08.200 about getting old it's just 41 year old means 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:13.500 like shut the fuck up man like um i think that 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:17.640 um i'm i'm always kind of a relieved and b at 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.220 pains to point out that in the official lyric 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:24.460 sheet for the album the words grow up are in 00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:27.119 quote marks and the reason for that is like it's 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.740 not actually and was never intended to be like 00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.759 a peter pan thing it's a more it was a song about 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:35.759 kind of what societal expectations of growing 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.160 up might constitute even having said that i mean 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.180 like you know you kind of understand One becomes 00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:45.160 a bit more forgiving as you get older of the 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:47.599 choices that older people have made before you. 00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:49.440 You know what I mean? Because you stand in their 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.420 shoes. And it's quite easy to be a teenager or 00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:54.200 someone in your early 20s being like, I'm never 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.180 going to get a mortgage. And you're kind of like, 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.680 well, there might be reasons to do that, actually, 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:02.279 as you get a little older. You know, it might 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.079 be, you know, I don't know. Like, I hope that, 00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:09.420 I suppose that like looking back, I'm not going 00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:11.460 to change the song because. it is what it is 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.039 and i'm proud of it and we play it every night 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:18.519 and i enjoy that but like i suppose there's the 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.180 words give up possibly stand in a little better 00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:25.380 than grow up but uh at this point but i'm not 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:28.660 gonna actually actively edit that and i'll stand 00:25:28.660 --> 00:25:33.259 by it Well, now let's head up to 2011 with your 00:25:33.259 --> 00:25:36.259 first gold record, which was England Keep My 00:25:36.259 --> 00:25:38.119 Bones. And I'm going to go with the track I Still 00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:40.460 Believe, which includes one of my favorite all 00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:43.359 time lyrics from you. And that is now who would 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:45.619 have thought that after all, something as simple 00:25:45.619 --> 00:25:48.579 as rock and roll would save us all. Those are 00:25:48.579 --> 00:25:51.640 words that I live by as a person because rock 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.519 and roll and music as a whole can be so powerful. 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:58.119 and so positive and it can bring together people 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.740 who normally don't see eye to eye on anything 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:05.859 and here they are singing the same lyrics together 00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:07.859 and they're on the same plane without getting 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:11.259 too punny here with my question with the ever 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:15.039 -changing landscape of rock and roll do you still 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:20.220 believe yeah i do um i mean first of all i would 00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.480 say that like i there have been people over the 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.009 years who've not And I'm not saying they're not 00:26:25.009 --> 00:26:26.910 famous about you at all, but like, are you sort 00:26:26.910 --> 00:26:29.710 of like, um, the British music press in particular 00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:31.769 are quite keen on kind of irony and sarcasm and 00:26:31.769 --> 00:26:33.789 they've sort of taken that lyric to be a little 00:26:33.789 --> 00:26:35.609 more po -faced than it's intended. There is a 00:26:35.609 --> 00:26:38.069 degree of playfulness to that lyric and playing 00:26:38.069 --> 00:26:40.769 with the kind of the sort of mashing up the imagery 00:26:40.769 --> 00:26:44.029 of like rock and roll and kind of religion, you 00:26:44.029 --> 00:26:46.089 know? Yes. There's, there's a degree of a nod 00:26:46.089 --> 00:26:48.490 and a wink in there. That's not to in any way 00:26:48.490 --> 00:26:50.289 step away from the meaning of the song because 00:26:50.289 --> 00:26:53.299 I do mean it, but like, you know. It's a song 00:26:53.299 --> 00:26:55.779 that's smiling rather than pointing your finger. 00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.980 Of course, yes. But I wrote the song, and this 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.299 is going to answer your question. I wrote that 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:03.660 song kind of during a very, very strange tour 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.740 I did in 2010 when I did an underground, arguably 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:10.440 illegal tour of China. When I say illegal, I 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.700 didn't have a visa. I didn't have a musician's 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:14.680 visa. And it's partly because of my passport. 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:16.619 My name is Francis. And when it's transliterates 00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.200 in Chinese characters, there's sort of enough 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.819 of a difference there that hopefully no one was 00:27:19.819 --> 00:27:21.920 going to notice. And the posters say Frank Turner. 00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:24.970 And indeed, the shows were in like squats and 00:27:24.970 --> 00:27:27.789 bunkers and like all these kind of super weird 00:27:27.789 --> 00:27:29.390 places. And none of them were really officially 00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:32.849 sanctioned. And as much as it has liberated in 00:27:32.849 --> 00:27:34.490 recent years, China is still an authoritarian 00:27:34.490 --> 00:27:37.690 communist country. But I sort of got to know 00:27:37.690 --> 00:27:40.990 these two guys who were over there who book DIY 00:27:40.990 --> 00:27:43.309 squat tours of China. And they were like, do 00:27:43.309 --> 00:27:46.910 you want to do it? I was like, sure. So I played 00:27:46.910 --> 00:27:48.569 a show in Hong Kong and then walked, which was 00:27:48.569 --> 00:27:52.140 still an independent territory at the time. walked 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:54.640 over the border with a guitar case and then got 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.319 picked up in a car and did this tour and it was 00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:59.880 crazy but the thing about and some of the shows 00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:02.640 were like dry as fuck like people had no idea 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:04.539 what was going on there was a huge language barrier 00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:07.079 and it was just like hello but some of them were 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:10.220 amazing and particularly the last few shows wuhan 00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:13.099 beijing and shanghai or shanghai and beijing 00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:15.500 wuhan shanghai beijing those shows were kind 00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:20.069 of like pretty unforgettable let's say because 00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:22.549 you know they were all in these kind of bomb 00:28:22.549 --> 00:28:24.750 i think not sure if all three of them were but 00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:26.289 certainly two of them were in former nuclear 00:28:26.289 --> 00:28:28.430 bunkers that had been taken over by punks and 00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:31.309 were covered in graffiti and like these other 00:28:31.309 --> 00:28:33.069 kind of local bands played before and the shows 00:28:33.069 --> 00:28:35.369 were jammed and like people were going crazy 00:28:35.369 --> 00:28:38.470 and like what i distinctly remember was watching 00:28:38.470 --> 00:28:40.890 people from a very different culture who had 00:28:40.890 --> 00:28:44.660 a very different experience of culture broadly 00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:46.680 growing up and like this idea that you know I 00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.180 grew up in a culture in which rock and roll is 00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:49.920 on TV adverts do you know what I mean and it's 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:54.140 in it's on the stereo in grocery stores and it's 00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:57.279 just it's kind of humdrum it's day to day it's 00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:59.319 not especially in and of itself a remarkable 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:02.660 thing which wasn't always true you know and like 00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:04.880 it's difficult to imagine yourself back to 1956 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.079 or whatever and rock around the clock or alternatively 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.460 the 70s and New York and punk rock or whichever 00:29:10.460 --> 00:29:13.660 version of that or hip hop or whichever place 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:15.180 you want to put yourself in but there was something 00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:17.700 kind of like telescoped and concentrated about 00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:19.559 watching these kids and like they were playing 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.619 these bands who like if they were from london 00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:24.460 they would have been boring bands they would 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:27.240 like they had literally only just last week figured 00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.759 out if you played this chord followed by this 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.859 chord followed by this chord and then hammer 00:29:33.859 --> 00:29:35.420 the crap out of your guitar and get the drummer 00:29:35.420 --> 00:29:37.480 to play everything way too fast and then yell 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:39.630 over the top of it That it feels like you're 00:29:39.630 --> 00:29:41.410 on drugs and you're on a rocket ship taking off 00:29:41.410 --> 00:29:43.829 and crashing into a mountain and the people are 00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:45.450 going to want to sleep with you. And it's just 00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:48.130 fantastic. And it was just like this utterly 00:29:48.130 --> 00:29:51.730 pure experience of what rock and roll is supposed 00:29:51.730 --> 00:29:55.309 to be. And it made me feel chastened to a degree 00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:58.670 because it was just like, they were so cool and 00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:01.430 they were so pure in their appreciation for the 00:30:01.430 --> 00:30:04.170 art form that it made me feel kind of like a 00:30:04.170 --> 00:30:06.799 jaded old dickhead. Do you know what I mean? 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.960 Like that guy in the Dead Kennedys patch jacket 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.539 at the back of the show complaining that it's 00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:14.400 not as good as it was in the 80s or whatever. 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.240 And it's just like, ah, whatever, man. And it 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.240 kind of rekindled something in me. And I remember 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:22.019 kind of coming home and thinking, I have to kind 00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.759 of, I have to pay that tribute in some way. I 00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.940 have to capture that in some way. And hence the 00:30:27.940 --> 00:30:31.839 song, I Still Believe. And, you know, in telling 00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:33.440 that story, there's probably some of the vocabulary 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.740 from the song is in there, you know. but yeah 00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:37.920 and i do think you know like there's something 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.339 particularly like in this sort of increasingly 00:30:40.339 --> 00:30:42.299 digitized blah blah blah we're talking to each 00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:46.859 other on zoom world and also like after the lockdowns 00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:48.539 when we all got very digital and the rest of 00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:51.680 it and like there was something noticeable in 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.539 its absence in that period of time i did a lot 00:30:53.539 --> 00:30:55.940 of live streams probably more than most probably 00:30:55.940 --> 00:30:59.680 more than was required but uh and and they were 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.740 well all well and good but they they very quickly 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.480 pointed out what was missing which is that there's 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.630 nothing in my experience that beats a room full 00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:09.150 of people getting off on music that's being created 00:31:09.150 --> 00:31:13.210 there and then you know um and i think that that 00:31:13.210 --> 00:31:15.750 remains true and particularly as it gets harder 00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:17.569 and harder to navigate how on earth you're supposed 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:19.609 to be an artist how you're supposed to navigate 00:31:19.609 --> 00:31:22.910 promotion and marketing and press and reviews 00:31:22.910 --> 00:31:27.190 and like you know what you can do talking to 00:31:27.190 --> 00:31:28.410 younger bands all the time it's like you know 00:31:28.410 --> 00:31:29.990 what you can do you can pick up a guitar and 00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:33.269 you can go and play a show and and it's there's 00:31:33.269 --> 00:31:35.089 something old -fashioned but pure about it and 00:31:35.089 --> 00:31:38.829 i like that amen well for the last of my seven 00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:41.990 songs i'd like to dip back into 2013's tape deckhart 00:31:41.990 --> 00:31:44.809 because we are in its 10 -year anniversary with 00:31:44.809 --> 00:31:48.690 the amazing track four simple words did you have 00:31:48.690 --> 00:31:51.670 any idea you were writing your future set closing 00:31:51.670 --> 00:31:55.150 track and the reaction you would get every single 00:31:55.150 --> 00:31:59.869 time you play it i mean again kind of i'd love 00:31:59.869 --> 00:32:02.410 to pretend i didn't but kind of That was a song 00:32:02.410 --> 00:32:06.789 that was born of a conversation with Brent, who's 00:32:06.789 --> 00:32:08.829 the bass player from Social Distortion. And we 00:32:08.829 --> 00:32:10.750 were on tour with Social D. We toured with them 00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:13.170 in Europe and the States. States twice, actually. 00:32:13.269 --> 00:32:15.750 And the beautiful people, Mike Ness, wonderful 00:32:15.750 --> 00:32:18.769 guy, did great things for my career. But I remember, 00:32:18.829 --> 00:32:21.109 and Brent's a great dude, bass player, fantastic 00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:24.349 bass player. And I remember we were talking about, 00:32:24.670 --> 00:32:28.359 in fact, we'll go deep into this. The conversation 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.019 started talking about the fact that nobody writes 00:32:30.019 --> 00:32:31.779 Talking Blues songs anymore. You know what I 00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:34.059 mean by Talking Blues? Like Bob Dylan has a few 00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:36.740 and Phil Ox and people like that. And then we 00:32:36.740 --> 00:32:38.140 had this idea that we were going to write a Talking 00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:39.460 Blues Talking Blues, which was going to be a 00:32:39.460 --> 00:32:40.680 Talking Blues about the fact that nobody writes 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:43.500 Talking Blues anymore. And it was going to be 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:46.319 called the Talking Blues Talking Blues. I haven't 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.859 got around to that yet. It's still on the to 00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:51.599 -do list. But then we were talking about vaudeville, 00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.920 which is, and like in the UK, the version of 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:56.799 vaudeville we had was known as musical and it's 00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.109 this. century plus long tradition of of music 00:33:00.109 --> 00:33:02.690 which is mostly forgotten now because it predates 00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:04.809 recording but you know and it's kind of it's 00:33:04.809 --> 00:33:07.089 slightly more sort of theatrical and fun in the 00:33:07.089 --> 00:33:09.369 way that they really love and um there are a 00:33:09.369 --> 00:33:11.690 handful of songs in in the uk that people know 00:33:11.690 --> 00:33:13.670 and most people don't know their musical songs 00:33:13.670 --> 00:33:17.410 my old band's a dust man any old iron um the 00:33:17.410 --> 00:33:19.509 hippopotamus song and they're kind of fun songs 00:33:19.509 --> 00:33:22.029 it was like what if there was a punk rock vaudeville 00:33:22.029 --> 00:33:24.829 song and in the same way that the talking blue 00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:28.940 song was kind of meta a song about itself i was 00:33:28.940 --> 00:33:30.400 like what if there was a vaudeville song about 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.380 going listening to a song out of punk rock and 00:33:33.380 --> 00:33:36.920 so the the intro to that song kind of big it 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.200 was came together in my head it's just like because 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.700 we're also really first and it's got this slightly 00:33:42.700 --> 00:33:47.539 kind of like um cabaret chord changes yeah yeah 00:33:47.539 --> 00:33:50.359 and i kind of got to the end you know i want 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.099 to dance and i still have this almost like rocky 00:33:52.099 --> 00:33:55.230 horror kind of picture in my head And then I 00:33:55.230 --> 00:33:56.450 sort of got to the end of that intro and was 00:33:56.450 --> 00:33:58.349 like, well, that was, that would be a cool way 00:33:58.349 --> 00:34:00.470 to start a show. And then you play something 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:03.269 else. And it was like, well, no, I mean, maybe, 00:34:03.369 --> 00:34:06.509 you know, because like I had written, I wrote 00:34:06.509 --> 00:34:09.409 the song eulogy on, on, uh, in curve of bones, 00:34:09.489 --> 00:34:11.010 which is a very short introductory song. And 00:34:11.010 --> 00:34:12.409 I think of initially it might've been another 00:34:12.409 --> 00:34:14.050 one of them. And it was like, maybe I don't need 00:34:14.050 --> 00:34:16.409 two of those in my repertoire. And also this, 00:34:16.530 --> 00:34:18.530 there's some more to this idea. Let's see where 00:34:18.530 --> 00:34:21.130 this goes. And you know, let's make it a punk 00:34:21.130 --> 00:34:23.489 rock song. And I remember. i remember talking 00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:25.469 the band through like the chord changes and the 00:34:25.469 --> 00:34:27.130 arrangements and stuff and sometimes when we 00:34:27.130 --> 00:34:29.630 work on a song i have the chord changes and the 00:34:29.630 --> 00:34:31.909 lyrics and the melody and the arrangements kind 00:34:31.909 --> 00:34:34.050 of all to play for it's like let's experiment 00:34:34.050 --> 00:34:35.989 and see where this goes let's try a few different 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:38.210 things in the case of awesome words it was like 00:34:38.210 --> 00:34:40.789 this is how this song goes like it's like everybody 00:34:40.789 --> 00:34:43.070 play power chords and do all down strokes and 00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:46.369 just go ah through the middle of it um and uh 00:34:49.550 --> 00:34:52.309 And I remember we played it for the first time 00:34:52.309 --> 00:34:57.469 in its finished form at a show in Graz in Austria 00:34:57.469 --> 00:35:01.969 in probably 2012. And we, again, sort of played 00:35:01.969 --> 00:35:03.369 it in the middle of a set, but in this instance, 00:35:03.409 --> 00:35:04.989 like nobody could possibly have heard it in any 00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:06.550 way, shape or form. I remember kind of saying 00:35:06.550 --> 00:35:08.070 to everyone, right, this is a punk rock song 00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:09.869 and it's a song about being at a show and having 00:35:09.869 --> 00:35:12.389 a good time. So have a good time, you know, or 00:35:12.389 --> 00:35:15.889 dancing or whatever. And like, yeah, people went 00:35:15.889 --> 00:35:18.849 nuts and it was like, oh, okay, well that works. 00:35:19.710 --> 00:35:22.829 I like more so than most of my songs it's it's 00:35:22.829 --> 00:35:25.110 instrumental not in the sense of not having vocals 00:35:25.110 --> 00:35:27.369 but as in it is kind of like it is it's functional 00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:29.809 might be the word it's like this is a song in 00:35:29.809 --> 00:35:31.829 order to make a room full of people like throw 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:36.070 that pram in the air or whatever and it works 00:35:36.070 --> 00:35:39.250 now it turns out tense so um yeah but it's it's 00:35:39.250 --> 00:35:41.449 a fun song I mean like it's moved around the 00:35:41.449 --> 00:35:43.269 set a few times but essentially it's either the 00:35:43.269 --> 00:35:45.929 opening or the closer it doesn't really fit anywhere 00:35:45.929 --> 00:35:50.780 else Well, here we are. My Songs of Frank Turner 00:35:50.780 --> 00:35:53.079 mixtape is sitting at seven tracks, but they've 00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.260 all been chosen by me. And why would I waste 00:35:56.260 --> 00:35:58.840 this amazing opportunity to have the man himself 00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:03.199 put his stamp on this mixtape? So, Frank, outside 00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.559 of the songs we've discussed tonight so far, 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.320 if you had to choose three songs that you've 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.599 recorded over the course of your career that 00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:13.820 you feel best tell the story of your musical 00:36:13.820 --> 00:36:16.940 legacy, what three songs would you choose and 00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:19.360 why? Well, what I'm going to do, I'm going to 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.639 preface this by saying that I am ultimately, 00:36:21.699 --> 00:36:23.820 I'm fantastically the wrong person to ask this 00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:26.860 question. The answer is either all of them or 00:36:26.860 --> 00:36:28.840 like, give me like two years to think about this. 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:33.460 Point one. Also, like, I'm going to treat this 00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:35.260 as adding these to the list that you've already 00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:38.420 made, if that's okay, because otherwise I'll 00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:40.119 never, we'll never finish this conversation. 00:36:41.300 --> 00:36:44.079 And I'm also like, it's going to be, it's going 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:49.260 to be. Oh, God, let's think about this. I mean, 00:36:49.300 --> 00:36:52.780 I might pick I might pick this on the ballot 00:36:52.780 --> 00:36:54.559 of me and my friends because that song has done 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:56.820 me well over the years. And it's kind of funny 00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:58.699 to me that song now because I wasn't kidding 00:36:58.699 --> 00:37:01.179 when I wrote it that I was like, hey, what I'm 00:37:01.179 --> 00:37:03.219 doing isn't fucking going anywhere. And it doesn't 00:37:03.219 --> 00:37:04.860 matter because we are having a good time. And 00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:06.400 this is a period of my time when playing of 50 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.480 people was like a bumper night. That would be 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.039 like a stadium headline night. And like, yeah, 00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:14.679 there wasn't kind of arch and it wasn't sarcastic 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:16.320 that I wrote that said that. And I have played 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:19.099 that song at like stadiums and read the headline 00:37:19.099 --> 00:37:21.159 shows and all the rest of it. And that's fucking 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:24.440 hilarious to me. And like, and the people who 00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:27.139 that song was kind of written for and about and 00:37:27.139 --> 00:37:29.420 with, for example, my friend Jay, beans on toast, 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:31.480 who is going to be here in about an hour. Like, 00:37:31.539 --> 00:37:33.880 it's got a place in all of our hearts. It's ours. 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:36.539 Do you know what I mean? And like, that's pretty 00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:41.909 special. I like that. So that's one. Oh, Lord 00:37:41.909 --> 00:37:48.690 above. I'm going to pick the song Journey of 00:37:48.690 --> 00:37:52.670 the Magi from Poetry of the Deeds. The song took 00:37:52.670 --> 00:37:54.670 a long time to write and it was one of the first 00:37:54.670 --> 00:37:57.010 songs I wrote that wasn't straight autobiography. 00:37:57.449 --> 00:37:59.289 And that was kind of a breakthrough for me as 00:37:59.289 --> 00:38:01.610 a writer. And whilst I do still tend to write 00:38:01.610 --> 00:38:03.230 straight autobiography, there was something kind 00:38:03.230 --> 00:38:06.630 of like... And it was also kind of a moment in 00:38:06.630 --> 00:38:08.530 time where I kind of like, you know, I am a total 00:38:08.530 --> 00:38:11.429 book nerd and I got a pretty kind of... classical 00:38:11.429 --> 00:38:13.550 education and all the rest and I brought some 00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:15.889 of that to bear and it wasn't embarrassing or 00:38:15.889 --> 00:38:18.670 bad and it was like oh cool I can I can also 00:38:18.670 --> 00:38:21.630 talk about this I can say Ithaca in a song and 00:38:21.630 --> 00:38:25.349 no one's gonna tell me um uh yeah and I've got 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:27.809 I just it sort of a song does what it I said 00:38:27.809 --> 00:38:30.570 it set out to do in a way that I'm pretty pleased 00:38:30.570 --> 00:38:32.969 with and then I'm largely picking my third one 00:38:32.969 --> 00:38:34.750 because I had a quite a meaningful conversation 00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:36.670 with an old friend of mine last night about it 00:38:36.670 --> 00:38:39.599 um I saw an old friend A lot of my career started 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.099 at this bar called Nambuka, which is mentioned 00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:42.639 in Ballad of Me and My Friends, in which the 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:44.920 lyrics to I Need Proof Rock Before We Got Famous 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:48.119 is basically about the bar staff there in 2007. 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:50.860 And indeed, the Resurrectionists picked it up 00:38:50.860 --> 00:38:53.000 again on FTAC and all the rest. And, you know, 00:38:53.019 --> 00:38:54.719 it was a very, very formative time for me and 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:56.659 a formative group of people. And without ever 00:38:56.659 --> 00:38:59.960 wanting to sound elitist or exclusionary, it 00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:01.539 is very much a case of like, if you were there, 00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:03.900 you were there kind of thing. You know, and it 00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:06.760 was those of us who were meet up around the world. 00:39:07.210 --> 00:39:09.230 Cause we've all scattered to the four winds and 00:39:09.230 --> 00:39:11.369 we have a drink and we reminisce and we think 00:39:11.369 --> 00:39:14.329 to ourselves, man, we were lucky, you know, um, 00:39:14.530 --> 00:39:16.730 an awful lot of crazy music came out of the place. 00:39:17.469 --> 00:39:19.710 But, uh, there's a song on FTSE called untainted 00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:22.750 love, which is a song about addiction and cocaine 00:39:22.750 --> 00:39:27.710 addiction. Um, and, uh, it was kind of a, I was 00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:29.530 one of those songs. So I get these occasionally 00:39:29.530 --> 00:39:31.150 where I'm like, I'm halfway right. And I'm like, 00:39:31.210 --> 00:39:33.190 am I actually going to fucking do this? Am I 00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:35.250 going to say this out loud where other people 00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:38.050 can hear? um you know what i mean like is this 00:39:38.050 --> 00:39:40.090 a good idea but it was sort of slightly born 00:39:40.090 --> 00:39:41.829 of a conversation with my wife because she's 00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:44.750 not had that issue with that substance and it 00:39:44.750 --> 00:39:47.250 was like i remember saying to her like i think 00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:50.130 about coke and i've been clean for a number of 00:39:50.130 --> 00:39:51.929 years now but like i still think about it probably 00:39:51.929 --> 00:39:55.190 seven or eight times a day i would say um you 00:39:55.190 --> 00:39:57.690 know and if you every single bathroom i ever 00:39:57.690 --> 00:39:59.869 walk into i slightly scan to see whether there's 00:39:59.869 --> 00:40:02.170 flat clean surfaces and like if you give me a 00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:04.449 hotel room key i will go clack clack clack on 00:40:04.449 --> 00:40:07.170 a flat dry surface and it will make me it's a 00:40:07.170 --> 00:40:12.110 little bit a little bit buzzy um and like people 00:40:12.110 --> 00:40:13.409 who know what i'm talking about know what i'm 00:40:13.409 --> 00:40:14.670 talking about do you know what i mean and um 00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:17.349 an old friend of mine was a show last night who 00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:19.530 was part of the network scene and we did a fair 00:40:19.530 --> 00:40:22.170 amount of that together and um he hadn't actually 00:40:22.170 --> 00:40:24.349 heard that song before and we played it last 00:40:24.349 --> 00:40:26.630 night and he said i really need to talk to you 00:40:26.630 --> 00:40:28.369 about that song man because it said it you know 00:40:28.369 --> 00:40:31.570 and um i miss the independence of being high 00:40:31.570 --> 00:40:33.849 as fucking friendless on days that were numb 00:40:33.849 --> 00:40:36.869 and endless and i feel pretty good about those 00:40:36.869 --> 00:40:40.409 words because it again it says what i meant to 00:40:40.409 --> 00:40:44.510 say like and arguably in quite a pure way there's 00:40:44.510 --> 00:40:45.889 a writer called clive james he's one of my favorite 00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:49.610 writers and sadly passed a few years ago um the 00:40:49.610 --> 00:40:51.269 expression be more kind is borrowed from one 00:40:51.269 --> 00:40:53.809 of his poems and and he talked he writes at length 00:40:53.809 --> 00:40:55.809 about writing he was a great essayist as well 00:40:55.809 --> 00:40:58.369 as a poet and cultural critic and he writes about 00:40:58.369 --> 00:41:01.349 how writing is the lifelong attempt to do something 00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:03.590 which sounds simple which is to say exactly what 00:41:03.590 --> 00:41:05.730 you mean and it's actually the hardest thing 00:41:05.730 --> 00:41:09.429 to do in the whole world and there i would not 00:41:09.429 --> 00:41:12.530 for a second say that all of my songs achieve 00:41:12.530 --> 00:41:16.250 that benchmark but that is one where i'm like 00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:18.889 that is what i meant to say precisely and exactly 00:41:18.889 --> 00:41:22.630 and i'm quite happy about that absolutely amazing 00:41:22.630 --> 00:41:25.230 well frank i'd like to quickly pivot away from 00:41:25.230 --> 00:41:28.699 the studio and back onto the stage this summer 00:41:28.699 --> 00:41:30.940 you'll be hitting the road across the u .s with 00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:34.159 one of my absolute favorite ska punk acts the 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.980 interrupters can you talk about what fans can 00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:40.199 expect on this trek and if you have any surprises 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.639 up your sleeves for the tour uh you know i mean 00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:45.639 to some degree i'm going to be finding out same 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:47.400 time as everybody else i mean i love the interrupters 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.039 they're great i sort of passingly know a couple 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:53.420 of them but some of them i don't um uh they suggested 00:41:53.420 --> 00:41:56.019 the tour and i was really really flattered by 00:41:56.019 --> 00:41:59.510 that i was like little old me kind of thing like 00:41:59.510 --> 00:42:01.670 um but i mean seriously it was like wow really 00:42:01.670 --> 00:42:03.630 cool awesome amazing and they've been wonderful 00:42:03.630 --> 00:42:06.570 to work with planning the tour and i think everybody 00:42:06.570 --> 00:42:08.989 i mean it's been lovely how people are excited 00:42:08.989 --> 00:42:11.690 about that tour and and so am i good lord uh 00:42:11.690 --> 00:42:13.489 and we're hitting some cool spots and we're going 00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:17.150 to play some cool shows i suspect that as we 00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:20.909 go some kind of like some bleeding over of sets 00:42:20.909 --> 00:42:23.230 will take place that's that's certainly a thing 00:42:23.230 --> 00:42:26.599 that often happens with me and i like that that's 00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.219 good let's do that but i mean i think what the 00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:32.199 other thing as well is that like music isn't 00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:34.079 a competition it's bullshit to suggest that music 00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.260 is competition it never was and it just isn't 00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:39.659 um you know there's space enough for everybody 00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:43.219 like i wish every band to do well um it's hard 00:42:43.219 --> 00:42:45.679 to do well you know i fucking hate the music 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:47.079 of the red hot jelly peppers but i want them 00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:49.079 to succeed i want them to play more shows and 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:50.940 sell more records good for them you know what 00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.579 i mean and The only way in which competition 00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:56.039 comes in is a bit of friendly competition. Sorry, 00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:57.800 I'm going around the house with this, but there 00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:00.400 are some bands who don't take out support acts 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:02.300 they think are going to be good, which I think 00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:04.800 is the lamest thing ever, but it definitely happens 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.800 in the industry. And there's nothing that fills 00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.380 me with more joy. Right now, we have a band called 00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:11.119 The Lottery Winners out with us, and they're 00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:12.719 fucking incredible, and you should check them 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:14.380 out, and everybody should check them out. And 00:43:14.380 --> 00:43:17.059 they are giving me a run for my money every night 00:43:17.059 --> 00:43:19.059 of this tour, and I love it because it makes 00:43:19.059 --> 00:43:21.949 me go, right, come on, man. we've got to bring 00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:23.389 our A game. Do you know what I mean? We've got 00:43:23.389 --> 00:43:26.550 to push ourselves further. And I feel like there's 00:43:26.550 --> 00:43:28.289 going to be a degree of that on the Interrupters 00:43:28.289 --> 00:43:30.510 tour because they are a great live band as well 00:43:30.510 --> 00:43:32.489 as being a great band full stop. And it's going 00:43:32.489 --> 00:43:35.389 to be like, okay, let's do this. Come on. Who's 00:43:35.389 --> 00:43:37.369 going to come on? And not in a kind of like, 00:43:37.389 --> 00:43:38.929 there's going to be a winner kind of way, but 00:43:38.929 --> 00:43:40.989 it's just, it's cool. You know, it's like, everybody's 00:43:40.989 --> 00:43:43.510 like, okay, top that motherfucker. Let's see 00:43:43.510 --> 00:43:46.250 how we do. well the winners are the audience 00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:48.730 because every band is bringing their a -game 00:43:48.730 --> 00:43:51.610 and that exactly means the world and i love that 00:43:51.610 --> 00:43:54.449 you said that music's not a competition i preach 00:43:54.449 --> 00:43:57.949 to the other indie podcasters and when i'm on 00:43:57.949 --> 00:44:00.130 social media that podcasting is not a competition 00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:03.190 we're all here because of our love and our support 00:44:03.190 --> 00:44:06.449 for whatever we're podcasting about and that 00:44:06.449 --> 00:44:11.619 for me is music And in 2018 and 2019, you released 00:44:11.619 --> 00:44:13.639 two albums in back to back years. That would 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.539 be Be More Kind and No Man's Land. You mentioned 00:44:16.539 --> 00:44:20.260 it earlier. And I would not be a good podcaster 00:44:20.260 --> 00:44:22.800 if I didn't try to dig a little bit deeper into 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.119 that. You said you're working on your follow 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:29.179 up to FTHC. Can we expect a new Frank Turner 00:44:29.179 --> 00:44:32.780 album in 2023? And if so, are there any details 00:44:32.780 --> 00:44:35.519 you'd be willing to share with me now? um there 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:37.079 are details it's not going to be this year it's 00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:38.400 going to be next year we're going to be recording 00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.059 this year i'm in an interesting place in my career 00:44:41.059 --> 00:44:43.360 i just finished a record deal which no one ever 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.179 does um you know bands tend to break up and get 00:44:46.179 --> 00:44:48.059 dropped before they do apparently five percent 00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:50.699 of bands finish a major label record deal i finished 00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:54.239 my deal um and that puts me in a different kind 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:56.800 of like business situation which isn't very interesting 00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.420 i know but it means that it does sort of affect 00:44:59.420 --> 00:45:02.219 the kind of creative logistics of how I'm going 00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:03.539 to make this record in a way that I'm kind of 00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:05.400 excited about. I'm going to self -produce and 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.760 record at my house, which I'm stoked about, which 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.079 will be a first for me. But I feel like I've 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:11.599 consciously shied away from doing that in the 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.420 past, but I feel like I'm ready to do it now. 00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.519 And I'm excited about that. We're going to be 00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:18.699 recording over the summer. I have a new drummer 00:45:18.699 --> 00:45:20.559 in my band in the last three years, and this 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:22.119 will be our first time recording with him. He 00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:25.139 didn't play on FTHC for various reasons. He wasn't 00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:26.480 fully in the band by that point when we were 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.000 making it. you know working with calum on the 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.099 record is going to be incredible yeah i'm just 00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:34.500 i'm i'm i'm stoked we're going to be working 00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:36.800 on it this summer i think it'll be out early 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:41.280 2024. well frank turner it's been an absolute 00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:43.699 honor to speak with you today and i'm really 00:45:43.699 --> 00:45:45.780 looking forward to seeing you and the interrupters 00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:48.619 at the stone pony in new jersey this may oh yeah 00:45:48.619 --> 00:45:51.860 thank you for the music and thank you for taking 00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:54.519 the time to be on my weekly mixtape with me today 00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:56.659 thank you so much for having me it's been a lot 00:45:56.659 --> 00:45:59.239 of fun And there you have it, Mixtapers, the 00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.320 songs of Frank Turner. We kick things off with 00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:05.780 Recovery, The Next Storm, Haven't Been Doing 00:46:05.780 --> 00:46:10.300 So Well, Don't Worry, Photosynthesis, I Still 00:46:10.300 --> 00:46:13.840 Believe, Four Simple Words, The Ballad of Me 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:17.340 and My Friends, Journey of the Magi, and Untainted 00:46:17.340 --> 00:46:20.639 Love. Remember, Mixtapers, if you'd like to listen 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.480 to all of the songs we talked about tonight, 00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:25.920 head over to MyWeeklyMixtape .com. Visit the 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:28.440 Songs of Frank Turner page and give these tracks 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.500 a listen via the embedded playlist. You can find 00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:34.300 My Weekly Mixtape on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, 00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:38.059 and TikTok at myweeklymixtape. You can also head 00:46:38.059 --> 00:46:40.840 to myweeklymixtape .com to check out the full 00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:44.280 catalog of My Weekly Mixtape episodes. If you 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.440 want to support the show, please consider becoming 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.900 a Patreon mixtaper at patreon .com forward slash 00:46:49.900 --> 00:46:53.280 myweeklymixtape. That's all for this week. Thanks 00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.730 for listening and until next time. Enjoy the 00:46:55.730 --> 00:46:55.969 tunes.