WEBVTT

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Hi, this is John O'Manson, and you're listening

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to my weekly mixtape with Brian Colburn. And

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this show is great because Brian does his homework,

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he knows what he's talking about, and he asks

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the deep and probing questions that you want

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to hear the answers to. Welcome to My Weekly

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Mixtape, a podcast that takes the classic mixtape

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approach to building a modern playlist. I'm your

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host, Brian Colburn. One of my favorite music

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scenes growing up was the New York City rock

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scene in the early 90s. As you may remember,

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I discussed this scene with Aaron Comis of the

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Spin Doctors a few weeks back. Well, tonight,

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I'm excited to continue exploring that scene

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with my guest, Jono Manson, who has a new duo

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album entitled Bootlegger Days that he recorded

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with yet another member of that New York City

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scene, Jon Popper of Blues Traveler. Jono, thank

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you so much for joining me on my weekly mixtape.

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Thank you for having me. I'm pleased to be here.

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Well, Jono, to kick things off, I always like

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to ask first -time guests, what does the word

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mixtape mean to you? Ah, well, you know, I'm

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62 years old, so I grew up in the golden age

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of the mixtape, you know, at least as far as

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I'm concerned, where cassettes were king. And

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mixtape means quite a number of things to me.

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On one hand, I used to make them for myself,

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putting together, like recording things. either

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off the radio because I had a radio like a cassette

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player that could record off the radio like when

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of course a lot of those things like the first

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couple seconds of the song weren't there because

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you heard the song you wanted to record you and

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you didn't have time to press record in time

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you know and then later making them mixtapes

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off of LPs you know when I was really young doing

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that and then of course finding early crushes,

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you know, with girls and trying to woo them with

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my fantastic and eclectic taste in music and

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giving mixtapes to some girl who you really,

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you know, who I was also I'm a pretty extroverted

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person now. But when I was a teenager, I was

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painfully shy. So it was easier for me to like

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some girl who was going away for the summer.

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And I was hoping would think about me in some

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way while while she was gone, you know, while

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we were. physically apart it was easier for me

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to like hand her a cassette tape and run away

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than to say anything to her you know so and then

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during times in my life bandmates of mine would

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make mixtapes for me like for example i was in

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this band called joey miserable and the worms

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later just the worms for almost 10 years in new

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york and um That band, the other sort of co -front

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man of that band was Simon Chartier, who's also

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still very active in New York. And he was like

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and still is a walking encyclopedia of. early

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rock and roll and so he would make mixtapes for

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me of stuff that he thought i should know about

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because he's he was born in 1958 so he's like

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three four years older than me and at that age

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when you're in your early 20s that age difference

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makes a difference he was older than me he knew

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more you know and so he would make these mixtapes

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for me and educate me about like 50s like rockabilly

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and early r &b like from the late 40s and early

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50s so mixtape means a lot to me i mean mixtapes

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played a big role in my life awesome well for

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tonight's conversation i'd first like to explore

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the musical relationship between you and john

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that leads us up to bootlegger days and then

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we'll dive into some of the highlights from this

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amazing album awesome So to start, I want to

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go back to the late 80s, early 90s, as Blues

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Traveler cut their teeth in the New York City

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music scene by opening for the band that you

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just spoke about, Joey Miserable and the Worms.

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Could you start by giving the listeners an idea

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of what New York City's music scene was like

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in general during that time period, and then

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how the musical relationship with the guys from

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Blues Traveler came to fruition? Sure. At that

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time, at the time when I started playing in clubs

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in New York, the late 70s and early 1980s, there

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was sort of an explosion of live music. I think

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on the heels of the whole, after the disco era,

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then came punk rock and new wave and a renewed

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interest in what we now call Americana. But back

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then there was a whole rockabilly revival and

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sort of roots music was once again. people were

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interested in hearing it and there was an explosion

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of live music and live music venues in new york

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every like hole in the wall you know and some

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of them became very famous holes in the wall

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like places like cbgbs and the nightingale where

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we used to play quite regularly became sort of

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hubs of these various scenes. And I think that

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the whole punk rock thing was sort of the catalyst

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for that because all of a sudden, the DIY music

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spaces, little bars that didn't, any place where

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you could stick a band in the corner wanted people

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to play. And people were thirsty for live music

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and not cover bands. Everyone wanted to hear

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something new and different and original. And

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I think that was sort of the spawning ground.

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for the sort of rebirth of the sort of what became

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the jam band scene that grew out of that in the

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mid 80s into the 90s. And my band, The Worms,

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we used to sort of hold court at Nightingale

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very regularly. And this, for those of you out

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there who never went there, it was a small...

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funky dive bar that probably legally was able

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to have like maybe a hundred people in there,

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but they would shoehorn maybe 300 a night in

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there. I mean, it was so jam packed and it would

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be so hot and sweaty that I remember like the

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ceiling used to sweat. Like people sweat would

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like go up to the ceiling, condense and drip

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back down. I mean, it was funky, but in the best

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sense of that word, you know, and John Popper,

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you know, is. a year older than the other founding

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members of Blues Traveler. So he graduated high

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school before them. And so they were still in

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high school, but he was free to roam before the

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other three guys were before, you know, Bobby

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Chan and Brendan were able to run. So John started

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kind of poking around before blues traveler really

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started coming across from they were all still

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living in New Jersey and Princeton. And so I

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remember meeting John earlier on and he would

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come and ask to sit in. And of course, he was

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phenomenal back then as a harmonica player. And

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then. The following year, Blues Traveler as a

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band sort of made the move to New York. You know,

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they moved to New York and it's kind of the fairy

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tale story for them. They moved to New York and

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all moved into one apartment together in Brooklyn

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and, you know, to make it as a band. And you're

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correct when you say that some of their earliest

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gigs were opening for us at places like the Nightingale

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because we had a large following and they were

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great. Already, they were really good. They were

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still, you know, in their formative stage, but

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they already had some of the songs that later

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became famous tunes for them. But anyway, and

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songs like that from their earlier repertoire.

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And John was always such a phenomenal instrumentalist,

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soloist and frontman that. people were immediately

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attracted to him. So that's my earliest memories

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of seeing them play and hearing them play and

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interacting with them. And we all kind of became

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friends and collaborators very early on. Well,

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over the years, you guys played a lot of gigs

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together. And then you actually started a side

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project with members of the band called High

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Plains Drifter, which featured both Chan Kinchela

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and Bobby Sheehan from Blues Traveler, as well

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as at one point, Eric Shankman from the Spin

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Doctors, who is filling in for Chan. Can you

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talk about what brought this group together and

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the legacy that they formed amongst fans who

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were lucky to see this New York City? scene super

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group in action the band actually started in

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1992 i moved out away from new york to new mexico

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where i still live today in santa fe and i'm

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the new york outpost at the i'm like you know

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so like they sent me out like kevin costner dances

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with wolves they sent me to the outpost and so

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bobby and chan used bobby in particular used

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to come out here and visit with me and we would

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jam and do musical projects and sometimes play

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gigs here and both of those guys bobby and chan

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really liked to in the off times go and like

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hang out and play gigs in the colorado ski towns

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because of course colorado has always been a

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hotbed also for the jam band world you know red

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rocks is there and just the whole culture there

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and the vibe is very conducive to that kind of

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music and so they've The initial seed for putting

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that band together, they approached me and said,

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how about we put this band together? Me, you

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know, Bobby and Chan and me and Mark Clark, who's

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a drummer from New Mexico, who I started working

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with when I moved out here, who I'm still working

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with all the time to this day, 30 plus years

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later. And the initial impetus for putting it

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together was so we could get these gigs up in

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like Vail and Aspen and Breckenridge and Steamboat

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Springs, all the ski towns in the winter when

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Blues Traveler had breaks in their schedule.

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And we'd go up there and play these. There were

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great gigs and super cool venues. And then the

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guys could go skiing and party and do all the

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fun stuff that you can do up in Colorado. So

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it was kind of like. Blues Traveler was already

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extremely busy and had already become a very

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popular and big touring act. But they wanted

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to have something. on the side that would feel

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less pressureful for them. That would be like,

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okay, we're doing this for fun. And that doesn't

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mean we didn't from the get -go take the music

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very seriously, which we did. So I was sort of

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the front guy for that band. And as you mentioned,

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Shankman was also a revolving member of the band.

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And John Popper used to come and be on gigs too.

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And as well as like Warren Haynes would sometimes

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come and sit in with us and a bunch of other

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people from that scene. And then it started to

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build momentum and we started to do gigs. elsewhere,

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not just for these like wintertime sort of fun

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break vacation. And that's where the name High

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Plains Drifter came from, because New Mexico

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is in the high plains. And so that's why we chose

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that name. And then, you know, after a while,

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this is right around the time that Blues Traveler

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4 was just coming out and their relationship,

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the band's relationship with A &M Records was.

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Such that they came, they, Bobby and Chan, or

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I think Bobby in particular, went to the suits

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at A &M and said, you know, we have this side

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project that we'd like to make a record with,

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if that's possible. And A &M checked out what

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we were doing and gave us a budget to make a

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record, but they didn't. For legal reasons, they

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didn't want the record to be called High Plains

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Drifter because there was too many. Anytime the

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lawyers at the label say, oh, we've got this

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too much red tape to do to get permission to

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use that name, then we could get sued, blah,

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blah, blah. Call it the Jono Manson Band. You

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know, Jono owns his name. There's going to be

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no problem with that, which, of course, we were

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fine with. And so that's how that record got

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made for A &M back in 1996. That album, Almost

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Home, kicks off with the song that actually introduced

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me to your music, The First One's Free, and also

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included amazing tracks such as Talk to You,

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which features Warren Haynes, like you mentioned,

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Sad State of Affairs, and Miss Fabulous, which

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was featured on both the Almost Home album, as

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well as on the soundtrack to a little movie called

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Kingpin. I've always wondered, the songs on Almost

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Home, those were... High Plains Drifter tracks?

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Or was that stuff that you guys wrote after the

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deal with A &M came together? Many of those songs

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were songs that we had in our repertoire. And

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then a handful of them were tunes that I had

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laying around that we decided to record for one

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reason or another. And we made that record pretty

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quickly. I mean, we had a limited, and it's not

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like it wasn't a rush job, but because those

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guys were busy, we all had our other commitments,

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especially them. So we chose material that we

00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:22.860
felt like fit the band. But yeah, but some of

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those things, like Miss Fabulous was certainly

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a song that we were already playing with High

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Plains Drifter. One Horse Town, which is a ballad

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on that record, is another one that we were first

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ones free. We were already playing with High

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Plains Drifter. And then the rest of them were

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songs that I had written or other guys. There's

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a couple songs written by Joe Flood, who was

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another member of our scene, you know. And so

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we just picked material that we felt fit our

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vibe, you know, and that we could record well.

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And that's how the choice of material for that

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record came about. And also Mike Barbiero, who

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produced the album, weighed in and we gave him

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a bunch of tunes to listen to. And he weighed

00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:02.309
in on which he thought were the 10 strongest

00:13:02.309 --> 00:13:05.379
to record. I think he was on to something because

00:13:05.379 --> 00:13:08.600
it's definitely a fantastic album. Thank you.

00:13:08.659 --> 00:13:10.879
You're welcome. And for someone who's never had

00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:13.440
the privilege to have any of my songs on a major

00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.899
motion picture soundtrack, from the business

00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:17.779
side of things, I'd love to know, considering

00:13:17.779 --> 00:13:21.659
how popular Kingpin was amongst my age group

00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:25.059
at that time, did you as an artist see a tangible

00:13:25.059 --> 00:13:27.899
impact from having Miss Fabulous featured in

00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:31.580
the movie and on the soundtrack? Yeah. I mean,

00:13:31.659 --> 00:13:33.820
Miss Fabulous is one of the songs on the album

00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:36.419
that I didn't write. Joe Flood wrote that song.

00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:39.259
So when you're the recording artist, you also

00:13:39.259 --> 00:13:42.360
get some dough from it. But the publishing money,

00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:44.980
the writer's money goes to the writer of the

00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:48.840
song. But I've also had songs of mine that I've

00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.419
written in other major motion pictures, too.

00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:53.799
And so I can attest to the fact that the initial

00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.120
impact in terms of getting a little chunk of

00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:59.059
change from the movie is great. And then the

00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:01.919
residual effect of the exposure that you get

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.850
from having your song in a movie like that. can

00:14:04.850 --> 00:14:06.789
be very far -reaching in ways that you don't

00:14:06.789 --> 00:14:09.909
expect. I'll give you, for example, this is from

00:14:09.909 --> 00:14:12.750
a different thing. I had the song Almost Home,

00:14:12.970 --> 00:14:15.889
which is a title track of the album Almost Home.

00:14:15.950 --> 00:14:18.850
A different recording of that song was used in

00:14:18.850 --> 00:14:21.529
a Kevin Costner movie called The Postman. Oh!

00:14:22.009 --> 00:14:24.970
And I'm actually in the film singing it, you

00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:28.070
know. And The Postman was a very long sort of

00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:30.350
post -apocalyptic thriller that didn't do that

00:14:30.350 --> 00:14:33.070
well in the box office. It was not it wasn't

00:14:33.070 --> 00:14:36.389
it wasn't a critical success. But Tom Petty's

00:14:36.389 --> 00:14:38.090
in the movie, too. It's pretty fun. I got to

00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:39.690
hang with him when we were making the movie.

00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:43.429
But the point is that that song and also Miss

00:14:43.429 --> 00:14:46.389
Fabulous in Kingpin turned a lot of people on

00:14:46.389 --> 00:14:49.289
to my music. I still to this day get emails from

00:14:49.289 --> 00:14:52.049
people say I discovered you because of. kingpin

00:14:52.049 --> 00:14:56.590
you know and this song almost home in the costner

00:14:56.590 --> 00:15:00.309
movie like at one point i got an email from these

00:15:00.309 --> 00:15:03.570
musicians in pakistan right and they're young

00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:05.830
these guys weren't even alive when that movie

00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:09.129
came out saying you know we love your music and

00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:11.870
we're fans of you because of your appearance

00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:15.620
in this film and we want you to collaborate with

00:15:15.620 --> 00:15:18.840
us and i won't go into the all the details but

00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.960
it wound up being it's a collaboration that continues

00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.399
to this day that started like 10 years ago and

00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.759
i wound up going to pakistan and recording with

00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.039
these guys and having all kinds of crazy adventures

00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:31.000
things that wouldn't have happened if i hadn't

00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.840
had that song in a movie so and especially now

00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.519
in today's landscape of the music business where

00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.360
You know, in the digital world, of course, it's

00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:44.019
getting harder and harder to get paid for your

00:15:44.019 --> 00:15:46.279
music once it's been released. You know, the

00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.500
whole Spotify and streaming conundrum is. Getting

00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:53.720
synchronization, you know, namely having your

00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.980
songs coupled with moving images of some sort

00:15:56.980 --> 00:15:59.139
or another, either on films or on television,

00:15:59.259 --> 00:16:02.820
is one of the last frontiers for us who make

00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.539
and who write and record music to get it out

00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:07.759
there in a really meaningful way that sometimes

00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.539
just self -releasing or putting out our songs

00:16:10.539 --> 00:16:13.580
just as audio doesn't have the same impact. So

00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:16.570
it's great anytime that happens. Well, I want

00:16:16.570 --> 00:16:18.450
to jump on something you had just mentioned,

00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:21.549
because one of the reasons I haven't become an

00:16:21.549 --> 00:16:25.169
all in guy on streaming is because some albums

00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:28.909
just don't exist on Apple Music or Spotify. And

00:16:28.909 --> 00:16:31.090
personally, I think it's a crime that Almost

00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:35.129
Home is not on there. Thankfully, I still have

00:16:35.129 --> 00:16:38.990
my original CD to spin whenever I want. Yeah,

00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.649
it's something that I need to explore because

00:16:41.649 --> 00:16:45.090
in theory, the masters for that album are owned

00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:49.509
by Universal, who bought A &M. And I don't know

00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:53.389
what I legally need to do to get permission to

00:16:53.389 --> 00:16:56.730
just release it on my own. And I need to explore

00:16:56.730 --> 00:16:59.330
that. I need to talk to my attorney and get her

00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:02.789
to investigate on my behalf. When you're in this

00:17:02.789 --> 00:17:05.460
kind of conundrum. The two things to do are either

00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:07.839
talk to your attorney and to get them to go contact

00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.960
people and go through channels or just put it

00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.359
out and see if you get to see if someone contacts

00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.799
you with a cease and desist, you know, because

00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.039
even though I am the artist on that and wrote

00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.980
the lion's share of those songs, et cetera, et

00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:24.859
cetera. When a record company pays to have an

00:17:24.859 --> 00:17:27.539
artist record something, they own the master

00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:31.460
recordings. They don't necessarily own the songs.

00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.799
I could re -record those songs if I wanted to

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.579
at this point, but those particular recordings

00:17:37.579 --> 00:17:41.400
are not my property. So it's a good point you

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.799
make, Brian. I need to find out about that, and

00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.700
I'll keep you posted, because I think a lot of

00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:48.160
people would be happy if that record were streamable.

00:17:48.339 --> 00:17:51.019
Yeah, and you also talked about other songs that...

00:17:51.349 --> 00:17:53.950
Didn't make the final cut. If they're still available,

00:17:54.009 --> 00:17:56.390
maybe a deluxe anniversary edition. I'm just

00:17:56.390 --> 00:17:58.750
throwing that out there. I do have some outtakes

00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:02.289
lurking. So, yes. All right. Well, I do want

00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:06.609
to go back prior to Almost Home. You appeared

00:18:06.609 --> 00:18:10.089
as a guest on Blues Traveler's Smash Album 4

00:18:10.089 --> 00:18:13.089
as a guest vocalist on the album's closing track,

00:18:13.329 --> 00:18:15.869
Brother John. Can you talk about how that all

00:18:15.869 --> 00:18:19.069
came together? Yeah, I was in New York. This

00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:23.069
was in 1990. you know, whatever, 1994, 95, when

00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.349
they were recording that record. And I was in

00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.809
New York working on an album of my own. I'd already

00:18:30.809 --> 00:18:32.990
moved to Santa Fe, but I was back in New York

00:18:32.990 --> 00:18:36.009
working on a record. And Popper came out and

00:18:36.009 --> 00:18:39.190
played on my record that I was working on. I

00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:41.529
can't remember which happened first. Either he

00:18:41.529 --> 00:18:44.210
came to the studio I was working in, but the

00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:47.410
guys called me up and said, you know, we're working

00:18:47.410 --> 00:18:50.430
on this album at Electric Lady. And there's this

00:18:50.430 --> 00:18:53.309
one song where we need somebody else to sing

00:18:53.309 --> 00:18:55.410
at the end. And we thought it'd be great if you

00:18:55.410 --> 00:18:58.289
would do it. So, of course, I went to the studio.

00:18:58.470 --> 00:19:01.349
There's Electric Lady Studios on A Street in

00:19:01.349 --> 00:19:05.269
Manhattan, Jimi Hendrix's studio. And who wouldn't

00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:09.630
go? Who wouldn't do that? And I think I got there

00:19:09.630 --> 00:19:12.269
like they were working late hours. I got there

00:19:12.269 --> 00:19:14.190
like 11 o 'clock at night or something. And I

00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:17.049
don't think we recorded that track until like

00:19:17.049 --> 00:19:19.779
three in the morning or something. And I remember

00:19:19.779 --> 00:19:22.799
they had already recorded Run Around, and I heard

00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.900
that, and they had also just recorded Hook. And

00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:28.819
John was like, check this out. Check out this

00:19:28.819 --> 00:19:31.640
song, Hook. It's Pachelbel's Canon. And I sing

00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.700
all the horn parts and everything. I made these

00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:35.700
lyrics, and it's really cool, and I think it's

00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:37.839
going to be great. And so I'm like one of the

00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.119
first people who heard either of those tunes,

00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:44.140
which of course became, and of course, one of

00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:47.000
my favorite blues travel songs of all time, Mountains

00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.410
Win Again. is on that record and i don't think

00:19:50.410 --> 00:19:52.609
i heard mountains when i was in the studio with

00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:55.200
them doing my vocals on brother john but i heard

00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.180
did hear run around and hook and got the sense

00:19:58.180 --> 00:20:00.380
right away that this was going to be a breakthrough

00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:02.480
for them because they were already popular they

00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.559
had already developed a very rabid following

00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.380
just because of their relentless touring but

00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.680
they hadn't really broken through big time commercially

00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:13.140
and i could tell that the way this record was

00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:15.279
sounding that this was their chance and sure

00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.640
enough it was and um over here behind the camera

00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.160
over there on the wall i've got my platinum album

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.700
award for having for having been a part of that

00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:29.759
record you know and uh i didn't get paid to sing

00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:35.619
so that platinum album award and like 375 will

00:20:35.619 --> 00:20:38.880
get me a latte at starbucks but uh but you know

00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:40.779
it was one of those things it goes back to our

00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:44.390
I'm just joking. You know, we all used to do

00:20:44.390 --> 00:20:46.509
everything to help one another. And like I said,

00:20:46.549 --> 00:20:48.509
during that same week, John came out and played

00:20:48.509 --> 00:20:52.490
on my record and I didn't pay him either. So,

00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:55.009
you know, it was all about collaboration. And

00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:57.329
that's one of the earmarks of the scene that

00:20:57.329 --> 00:21:00.390
we came from. There was no sense of competition

00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:04.109
whatsoever. You know, there was no sense of territorial.

00:21:05.309 --> 00:21:07.890
being guarded about, you know, oh, if these guys

00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:10.069
come, they're going to steal my gig or this or

00:21:10.069 --> 00:21:12.009
that. There was some there was enough to go around

00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:15.369
and nobody cared. And it was really I'm very

00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:17.490
fortunate. And so are those guys. We all are

00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:19.609
the people that came out of that scene to have

00:21:19.609 --> 00:21:21.829
learned that way and to have to go forth into

00:21:21.829 --> 00:21:24.690
the world with that sense of giving, which I

00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:27.910
do every day here in my studio in Santa Fe. You

00:21:27.910 --> 00:21:30.549
know, when I'm working with other artists. be

00:21:30.549 --> 00:21:34.150
the established bands or emergent young artists

00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:37.849
or emergent old artists you know that sense of

00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.230
like investing of yourself in other people's

00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:44.809
interests is i think was instilled in me back

00:21:44.809 --> 00:21:47.769
in those days well i want to jump off you mentioned

00:21:47.769 --> 00:21:50.609
one of your favorite songs from blues traveler

00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:53.130
it happens to be one of mine as well the mountains

00:21:53.130 --> 00:21:55.930
win again and i want to time jump here because

00:21:55.930 --> 00:22:00.470
in 2008 you sang on a version of the mountains

00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:03.049
win again for the band's cover yourself album,

00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:06.210
which was a very interesting release for me as

00:22:06.210 --> 00:22:08.589
a blues traveler fan, because they took some

00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:11.809
big chances and liberties in rearranging their

00:22:11.809 --> 00:22:15.769
most popular songs for you as the singer. What

00:22:15.769 --> 00:22:18.210
was it like stepping into the studio to try to

00:22:18.210 --> 00:22:21.410
put your stamp on a song that was so widely known

00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:24.359
and beloved? Well, you know, the advantage of

00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.160
that particular version was that they had already

00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.039
sort of reinvented the arrangement to a point

00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.799
where I didn't feel like I had to replicate,

00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:37.240
you know, John's original vocal performance on

00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.240
that song. You know, that song is also very dear

00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.259
to me because, you know, Bobby Sheehan wrote

00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:48.579
it. And I remember the night and I also performed

00:22:48.579 --> 00:22:52.000
that song at Bobby's funeral. because John was

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.779
too, wasn't able, he was too broken up to sing.

00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.940
And so at Bobby Sheen's funeral at St. Anne's

00:22:57.940 --> 00:23:02.460
Church in Brooklyn, John and Chan and I performed

00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:06.140
the song and I sang it, you know? So that song

00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:09.460
has a deep significance for me personally. And

00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:13.339
I also remember the night on a High Plains Drifter

00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:16.519
tour, we were in Boulder and we played the Fox

00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.420
Theater in Boulder and Bobby came to my room.

00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.759
after the gig and he had he had written the lyric

00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:28.420
for Mountains Win Again and he wanted to show

00:23:28.420 --> 00:23:31.220
it to me to get my opinion because he he wasn't

00:23:31.220 --> 00:23:33.319
a songwriter in the band. He didn't write the

00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:35.940
lyrics. You know, he participated in writing

00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:39.960
the music, but he up until then wasn't lyricist

00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.140
in the band. And he was very self -conscious

00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:45.039
about. presenting the song you know and he read

00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.180
at that point there was no music to it but he

00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:50.420
had written the lyric i can remember like looking

00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:52.440
at the piece of paper with his handwriting on

00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:55.539
it and i read the lyric and he you know i told

00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:58.980
him that yes this is a very good lyric you know

00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:03.299
it was deeply personal and also very poetic you

00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:05.539
know i pick up my smile and put it in my pocket

00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:08.930
hold it for a while and try not to have to drop

00:24:08.930 --> 00:24:13.069
it. And the way, also the poetry of it is very

00:24:13.069 --> 00:24:16.670
simple in the sense that it's not, you can tell

00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:21.009
that he's not trying to be clever or have a clever

00:24:21.009 --> 00:24:22.950
turn of a phrase. It's just naturally coming

00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:26.950
out of him. So that was a very meaningful thing

00:24:26.950 --> 00:24:30.690
for me to be asked to sing on that new recording

00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:33.710
of that song. Awesome story. I have goosebumps

00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:36.950
just hearing those lyrics. They mean so much

00:24:36.950 --> 00:24:39.930
to me just as a fan. I can't even imagine. That

00:24:39.930 --> 00:24:42.329
was such a wonderful story. It's all true too.

00:24:42.430 --> 00:24:46.750
I didn't even make up any of it. Now I want to

00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:49.470
jump ahead to 2011 where you were the producer,

00:24:49.690 --> 00:24:52.950
recording engineer, mixing engineer, guitarist.

00:24:53.390 --> 00:24:57.109
vocalist and primary songwriter for john popper

00:24:57.109 --> 00:25:00.269
and the dusk ray troubadours album god i just

00:25:00.269 --> 00:25:04.450
i get tired just hearing you say that as soon

00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:07.250
as you hear the opening track on the album love

00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:10.329
has made it so you immediately grasp that this

00:25:10.329 --> 00:25:12.869
album is bringing together the sounds that you've

00:25:12.869 --> 00:25:15.269
brought to your solo material throughout the

00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:18.809
years and then adding in john's distinctive vocal

00:25:18.809 --> 00:25:21.839
and harmonica delivery It's a perfect musical

00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.140
marriage, if you ask me. Songs like Something

00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:28.279
Sweet and Sham Pipple, Ooze with R &B and Americana,

00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.119
and then you add in that Southern rock groove

00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.700
of Don't Tread on Me. It's such a wonderful album.

00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.559
Can you talk about how this project came together?

00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:39.220
Because the songs feel so natural listening to

00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:42.440
the album. It was almost as if these songs were

00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:46.440
honed on the stage for years prior to the recording.

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.880
Yeah, which is not the case at all. Some of the

00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.299
songs were actually written in the studio, you

00:25:52.299 --> 00:25:54.000
know, when we were recording. And we recorded

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.400
that not in the studio that I'm in now, but in

00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:00.839
my former studio here in New Mexico, which is

00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.480
up this, I built a studio in this rambling old

00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.400
funky Adobe house up in the hills north of Santa

00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.839
Fe in a place called Chupadero, New Mexico. And

00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.420
yeah, John approached me about. doing this side

00:26:13.420 --> 00:26:17.000
project and part of his interest in doing it,

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.160
besides the fact that we had talked about doing

00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.279
something like this for many years, was that

00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:25.440
he was very interested in doing more collaborative

00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.799
songwriting outside of the context of Blues Traveler.

00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:31.339
and sure enough in subsequent blues traveler

00:26:31.339 --> 00:26:34.480
albums like uh blow up the moon and stuff that

00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:36.900
he brought in other writers and this i think

00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:40.500
this doing the dust gray project was sort of

00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:43.119
a launching pad for him in terms of getting into

00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.420
that world because for many, many, many years

00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.039
since the beginning of the band, he was sort

00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.440
of saddled with being the primary songwriter.

00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:53.579
So I think it was liberating for him to be able

00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:56.019
to come to me and trust me enough to say, OK,

00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:57.880
I've got these songs, I've got these ideas. And

00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.640
we got together. We had two primary writing sessions,

00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:04.019
one down in Austin, where he and I and Aaron

00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:06.799
Beavers from the band Sherman, who is also in

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.380
the Dusk Retributor band, got together and start.

00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.150
We each came with our bits and pieces, our scrap

00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:15.289
bin, if you will, of song ideas, half -baked

00:27:15.289 --> 00:27:17.289
ideas. I've got a verse idea. I've got a lyric.

00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:19.309
I've got a song title. That's cool. We should

00:27:19.309 --> 00:27:22.329
write this, you know, and started bouncing things

00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:24.309
around for maybe three or four days. And then

00:27:24.309 --> 00:27:27.589
we had a second writing session in New York where

00:27:27.589 --> 00:27:30.730
John and I spent a few days together working

00:27:30.730 --> 00:27:33.869
on tunes. And also Chris Barron from the Spin

00:27:33.869 --> 00:27:37.269
Doctors joined us. And we wrote one afternoon

00:27:37.269 --> 00:27:40.640
in John's hotel room where he was staying. And

00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.819
we wrote Champiple that day, the three of us,

00:27:43.859 --> 00:27:47.240
which is probably the most popular song from

00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:49.640
that record, the most requested, at least, which

00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.799
is, you know, it's a really fun song. And it's

00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:54.980
about, you know, Fred Sanford's favorite beverage,

00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.359
which was ginger ale and ripple champiple. And

00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:01.599
so the songs came about like that. And then we

00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.089
assembled the band. We decided who would be in

00:28:04.089 --> 00:28:07.509
the band. Mark Clark from the High Plains Drifter

00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:10.869
group, a bass player named Steve Lindsey, Aaron

00:28:10.869 --> 00:28:14.990
Beavers, and then Kevin Trainor, who also plays

00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:17.349
on the new record, Bootlegger Days, who was also

00:28:17.349 --> 00:28:20.450
from our scene in New York. He was the front

00:28:20.450 --> 00:28:23.509
man for a band called the Surreal McCoys, which

00:28:23.509 --> 00:28:28.309
was an amazing, amazing band during the 80s and

00:28:28.309 --> 00:28:32.480
early 90s in New York. And so it brought kind

00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.440
of a lot of threads together. New people that

00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:36.680
I was working with out here in New Mexico. John

00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.200
had met Aaron Beavers down in Austin and Sherman

00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.480
had his band. Sherman had toured with Blues Traveler.

00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.619
So I didn't know Aaron. But John was like, you

00:28:44.619 --> 00:28:46.460
know, you should get we should get this guy Aaron

00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:48.799
to be in the band because he'll bring like the

00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.799
Texas thing into the group. And, you know, so

00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:54.160
we so he balanced the sort of the New Mexico,

00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:57.180
New York, Texas thing. And that's how it happened.

00:28:57.259 --> 00:28:59.700
It was very organic process. We recorded the

00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.660
album in about two weeks and set everything up

00:29:02.660 --> 00:29:07.000
in this studio that I had. And yeah, I love that

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.119
record and I loved working on it. And, you know,

00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:12.980
you're right. It has a very kind of rootsy Americana

00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:14.799
sound. And that's what we were going for. We

00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.039
had decided that that was going to be the vibe

00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.619
of the record and we succeeded. Yeah. I mean,

00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:23.440
it's been a while since I've listened to it.

00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.279
I should revisit it. Every time I happen to hear

00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.319
one of the songs from that record, I really enjoy

00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.140
it. But I haven't listened to it front to back

00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.240
in a long time. Well, if you don't mind, I have

00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:36.619
one small quip about. the dust gray troubadours

00:29:36.619 --> 00:29:39.500
album. And this is going to be where my music

00:29:39.500 --> 00:29:42.339
nerddom comes into full effect. So I apologize

00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.779
in advance. Go ahead. I am a huge fan of frog

00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.940
wings, croaking at toads album that John recorded

00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:52.480
alongside of Kofi and Oteel Burbridge, butch

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:55.740
and Derek trucks, Jimmy Herring and Mark can

00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:58.720
Jonas. Now for the dust gray troubadours album,

00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:02.480
the band recorded a studio version of my favorite

00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:06.839
frog wing song. hurdy -gurdy fandango but it

00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.440
was only released as a bonus track on the itunes

00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:13.640
edition of the album so i had to settle for buying

00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:18.240
it in its lossy mp3 format and i've been forever

00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.420
since praying for a deluxe version of this album

00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.880
so i could finally get that version on lossless

00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.420
or cd so i'm curious why that song was saved

00:30:28.420 --> 00:30:30.980
for an itunes bonus track because you guys really

00:30:30.980 --> 00:30:33.809
knocked it out of the park I like that track

00:30:33.809 --> 00:30:40.650
too, a lot. I don't know why. At least I knew

00:30:40.650 --> 00:30:42.329
at the time. I don't remember what the reasoning

00:30:42.329 --> 00:30:46.250
was. I think the label wanted a certain number

00:30:46.250 --> 00:30:48.150
of tunes and they wanted to hold back something

00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:51.569
for a bonus track on the digital release. Don't

00:30:51.569 --> 00:30:54.950
forget this is going back to 2011 where the transition

00:30:54.950 --> 00:30:58.210
into the streaming world was just happening.

00:30:58.329 --> 00:31:01.329
I think everyone was trying to navigate how to...

00:31:01.549 --> 00:31:04.650
best take advantage of that and attract people

00:31:04.650 --> 00:31:08.049
to the various versions of the album. So I think

00:31:08.049 --> 00:31:10.190
some of that went into the thinking with the

00:31:10.190 --> 00:31:13.029
people at the label. 429 was the name of the

00:31:13.029 --> 00:31:16.470
label that put it out in terms of keeping a strong

00:31:16.470 --> 00:31:19.309
song off the record and having it be available

00:31:19.309 --> 00:31:22.410
just if you were going to buy the record on iTunes.

00:31:22.829 --> 00:31:24.910
Because back then, people were actually paying

00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:28.529
to download records. It wasn't all just streaming.

00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.799
I think that's probably what the reasoning was,

00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:35.579
although I don't know how directly involved I

00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:38.039
was in that part of the process. You know, that

00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.539
very often happens where the band and or the

00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:43.119
producer, the creative producers of the record

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:46.359
aren't necessarily. directly involved with some

00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:48.380
of the decisions that of those sorts that get

00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:51.000
made after the fact so that's all i can tell

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.019
you but you're right it's a very strong uh it's

00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:57.240
a very strong um and it's funny because my daughter

00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.579
who when we recorded that album was only two

00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:02.779
years old awesome now plays the hurdy -gurdy

00:32:02.779 --> 00:32:05.420
she has one and she she's taught herself to play

00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:08.519
it and so i i thought i all of a sudden went

00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:12.200
you know it dawned on me about six months ago

00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.940
i was like you know what we she knows john you

00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.319
know and i said john and i once recorded a song

00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:20.740
about a hurdy -gurdy player she's like no and

00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:22.940
i played it because how come you never so she's

00:32:22.940 --> 00:32:27.279
so she like you shares shares the uh dissatisfaction

00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:29.240
at the fact that she had to wait so long to hear

00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.990
that song amen amen Well, as I was getting ready

00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:35.809
for tonight's episode, I realized something on

00:32:35.809 --> 00:32:38.089
your site that I didn't know for the last 11

00:32:38.089 --> 00:32:41.849
years. You were a songwriter for something on

00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:44.950
Blues Traveler's 2012 album, Suzy Cracks the

00:32:44.950 --> 00:32:48.990
Whip. And I have the two CD deluxe version that

00:32:48.990 --> 00:32:52.289
Best Buy sold. Disc two doesn't come with any

00:32:52.289 --> 00:32:56.130
liner notes. So I have no clue what song you

00:32:56.130 --> 00:32:59.019
wrote. with the band that i'd love to learn more

00:32:59.019 --> 00:33:01.319
about your involvement with that album it's washed

00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:05.240
away with tears really song yeah and the the

00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.859
single from that that's that um what's what was

00:33:08.859 --> 00:33:10.599
the lead off track what's the name of it on on

00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.400
the main disc oh you don't have to love me you

00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.660
don't have to love me yeah aaron who was you

00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:18.359
know also in the dust grade wrote that song And

00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:20.539
so at that, when they were doing Susie Cracks

00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:24.180
the Whip, again, John was, and I also had, I'm

00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:26.779
involved in yet another song on that record.

00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:30.140
But yeah, I had written, so John was like, yeah,

00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:33.059
we're, you know, I'm open to co -writing and

00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:36.240
or considering material from people in my circle

00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:39.480
to be included on this record. Because like I

00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:41.180
said, You Don't Have to Love Me was written,

00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:44.539
you know, John had no hand in writing it. It

00:33:44.539 --> 00:33:48.730
was written by Aaron Beavers. I had this song

00:33:48.730 --> 00:33:50.890
that I had started writing called washed away

00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:53.809
with tears. And it was a ballad. Like I could,

00:33:53.849 --> 00:33:56.349
if I dug up the original demo of that, I've got

00:33:56.349 --> 00:33:59.529
it somewhere working. It was a ballad. It was

00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:03.349
the same melody. that's on thing and uh some

00:34:03.349 --> 00:34:05.210
of the same lyrics because i hadn't finished

00:34:05.210 --> 00:34:07.849
writing it you know i sent him this song idea

00:34:07.849 --> 00:34:10.250
i had written the chorus and had a couple verse

00:34:10.250 --> 00:34:12.809
ideas and i sent it to john i was like what do

00:34:12.809 --> 00:34:14.650
you think about this and he wrote me back or

00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:16.289
called me i can't remember what and said oh i

00:34:16.289 --> 00:34:18.489
love that song if you mind if you don't mind

00:34:18.489 --> 00:34:21.010
i'll run with it you know i was like dude go

00:34:21.010 --> 00:34:22.909
ahead it's gonna be it's gonna be on a blues

00:34:22.909 --> 00:34:24.949
traveler record you can you know do what you

00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:27.949
like you know and uh so i wound up with the co

00:34:27.949 --> 00:34:31.090
-write and the the when i finally heard Blues

00:34:31.090 --> 00:34:32.650
Traveler. I don't know if I even heard Blues

00:34:32.650 --> 00:34:35.769
Traveler's version until the album came out.

00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:38.130
I think I might even have to go to Best Buy to

00:34:38.130 --> 00:34:42.429
get it. But yeah, you can find it. It's on YouTube

00:34:42.429 --> 00:34:44.829
and stuff. You can hear the version. And I'll

00:34:44.829 --> 00:34:47.030
be sure to embed it on the episode page over

00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:49.710
at myweeklymixtape .com for anyone who's listening

00:34:49.710 --> 00:34:52.030
and want to go directly to the song. And the

00:34:52.030 --> 00:34:55.849
other thing that I did was I recorded Crystal

00:34:55.849 --> 00:34:59.610
Bowersox's vocal for I don't want to go. Is that

00:34:59.610 --> 00:35:01.429
the name of the song that she sings on? Yes.

00:35:01.550 --> 00:35:08.750
I don't want to go. Anyway, which I think John

00:35:08.750 --> 00:35:11.750
co -wrote with Carrie Rodriguez. And it's funny

00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:14.110
because Crystal, I've done a lot of work with

00:35:14.110 --> 00:35:17.210
her, both as a co -writer and produced some of

00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:21.349
her music. And John called Crystal and said,

00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:24.480
hey, we're working on this album. And we want

00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.059
you to sing this duet with me because we think

00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:29.400
your voice would be perfect for this. And can

00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.880
you get into a studio sometime soon? And at that

00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.599
time, she was living in Portland, Oregon. And

00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.000
at that moment, she was in her car on her way

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.159
to New Mexico to work with me in my studio. So

00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.500
she said, yeah, I think I can find a studio with

00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:47.360
someone who you know. So they sent me the track

00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:51.059
and I cut Crystal's vocal. on that so i'm i've

00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.320
got my hand in that record in a couple of spots

00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:56.900
very cool very awesome i love her vocal track

00:35:56.900 --> 00:35:58.880
on that album by the way it's such a wonderful

00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:02.280
duet between the two their voices marry perfectly

00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.179
together she is an awesome singer on my current

00:36:06.179 --> 00:36:08.739
uh solo album which came out in march it's called

00:36:08.739 --> 00:36:11.460
stars enough to guide me we have a duet crystal

00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:14.039
and i it's called before we get stupid is an

00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.760
is the name of the song and it's like you know

00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:19.869
it's kind of just a dumbass good time rock and

00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:23.530
roll song about you know what happens sometimes

00:36:23.530 --> 00:36:26.550
between consenting adults yeah dumbass i think

00:36:26.550 --> 00:36:28.650
it's one of the best songs on the album i love

00:36:28.650 --> 00:36:31.369
it i don't mean dumbass as a negative thing you

00:36:31.369 --> 00:36:34.940
know yes that I don't mean to say that dumbasses,

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.500
you know, some of the greatest songs ever written

00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:39.960
are pretty stupid, you know, so it's like stupid.

00:36:40.099 --> 00:36:43.760
I mean, you know, it's not trying to say anything

00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.579
deep and poignant. It's not social commentary

00:36:46.579 --> 00:36:48.940
or anything. It's just about having fun and partying

00:36:48.940 --> 00:36:51.340
in the human condition, you know, so. There you

00:36:51.340 --> 00:36:53.460
go. Stars Enough to Guide Me, like you said,

00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:56.300
came out in March. It's an amazing listen. And

00:36:56.300 --> 00:36:58.880
three songs into the album, there's a duet with

00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:01.239
some guy, John Popper, who we've talked about

00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.159
in this hour called New Kind of Blue, which is

00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:08.599
a refreshing folk Americana jam song. Where does

00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:12.980
this song sit in the timeline for recording bootlegger

00:37:12.980 --> 00:37:15.460
days? Was this something that helped lead to

00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:18.179
this duo album? Or was this a song that maybe

00:37:18.179 --> 00:37:20.980
was recorded for that album, but then you moved

00:37:20.980 --> 00:37:23.239
it to stars enough to guide me kind of what's

00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.280
the story behind this? It wasn't so much recorded

00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.500
for that album, but it was recorded during the

00:37:27.500 --> 00:37:30.760
same sessions as bootlegger days. You are right.

00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.659
Your detective work is paying off. It's very

00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:36.920
sonically similar. Yeah. And it's the same band.

00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.159
Same band that's on Bootlegger Days. But this

00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:42.820
one, unlike the songs on Bootlegger Days, which

00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:45.559
are all sung by John. And as a matter of fact,

00:37:45.699 --> 00:37:49.360
at the beginning, the idea when we made Bootlegger

00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.400
Days was that it was going to be a John Popper

00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.360
album that I was co -writing and producing. But

00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:58.440
then because of my extensive involvement in this

00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:02.079
particular record, it was John who kind of stepped

00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:04.000
up and said, you know, this should be your name

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.289
should be on the cover, too. you know and uh

00:38:06.289 --> 00:38:10.090
to which i did not object and you know i'll take

00:38:10.090 --> 00:38:14.730
half the blame for this one but that song as

00:38:14.730 --> 00:38:16.969
you point out is a duet between the two of us

00:38:16.969 --> 00:38:19.710
and and i sing plenty on bootlegger days but

00:38:19.710 --> 00:38:22.190
my role there is more as a backing and harmony

00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:24.789
vocal i don't sing any lead vocals on the album

00:38:24.789 --> 00:38:27.349
because initially it was supposed to just be

00:38:27.349 --> 00:38:30.650
a john popper solo project and because of the

00:38:30.650 --> 00:38:33.300
fact that my involvement in the project is so

00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:38.840
multi -pronged that we decided mutually, at John's

00:38:38.840 --> 00:39:07.319
suggestion, to put my name on the cover. With

00:39:07.319 --> 00:39:12.650
you. John, Mark, and Kevin together. Was there

00:39:12.650 --> 00:39:15.250
ever a sense that this could be the follow -up

00:39:15.250 --> 00:39:18.489
or sequel to Dusk Ray Troubadours, or was this

00:39:18.489 --> 00:39:21.329
a different mindset altogether? Well, it's not

00:39:21.329 --> 00:39:23.389
a different mindset altogether. I mean, we're

00:39:23.389 --> 00:39:26.789
writing songs and figuring out how to arrange

00:39:26.789 --> 00:39:29.449
and record them, which is our usual mindset,

00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:34.099
but thematically and... energetically we wanted

00:39:34.099 --> 00:39:36.800
this record to be more sort of steeped in blues

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:40.739
and r &b as opposed to americana you know and

00:39:40.739 --> 00:39:43.239
we didn't want to write like a straight blues

00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:45.780
album where every song was like a 12 bar blues

00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:47.940
although there is there is a little bit of that

00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:50.619
on the record there's a song called uh same old

00:39:50.619 --> 00:39:53.420
blues which is just like a straight sort of texas

00:39:53.420 --> 00:39:56.260
shuffle and then there's a another tune called

00:39:56.260 --> 00:39:58.780
new cocaine blues which is pretty much a blues

00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:02.869
tune and uh it's funny because We decided to

00:40:02.869 --> 00:40:05.389
call the song New Cocaine Blues because there

00:40:05.389 --> 00:40:08.929
is a song called Cocaine Blues. The cocaine running

00:40:08.929 --> 00:40:11.849
around my brain. But John was like, wow, people

00:40:11.849 --> 00:40:13.610
are going to think, wow, there's a new cocaine?

00:40:15.309 --> 00:40:19.389
It's like new coke. Yeah, exactly. There's a

00:40:19.389 --> 00:40:22.329
new coke. All of the pitfalls with a brand new

00:40:22.329 --> 00:40:25.590
flavor. You'll still lose your house anyway.

00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:30.820
So we wanted it to be musically a little bit

00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:33.059
more on the blues and R &B side of the spectrum,

00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.980
which it is. And also in bootlegger days, it's

00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:39.840
not really a concept album per se, but as we

00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.599
were starting to write the songs, we started

00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.880
to see like some, you know, all sort of unbeknownst

00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.019
to us, there were some underlying themes or like,

00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:51.860
you know, storylines that were sort of coming

00:40:51.860 --> 00:40:54.900
out during the... writing of some of the songs

00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:57.500
and so as we started to see some of the connections

00:40:57.500 --> 00:41:00.739
between the songs we then as we were working

00:41:00.739 --> 00:41:03.639
on subsequent material for the album made a conscious

00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:07.719
effort to include so if you listen carefully

00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:11.460
to the album you can hear uh it's a bonus for

00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:14.079
people who pay close attention there are cross

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.920
references in quite a number of the songs um

00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.800
there's sort of a character that is introduced

00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.090
in the first song of the album who's sort of

00:41:22.090 --> 00:41:23.929
this hard luck character. The first song of the

00:41:23.929 --> 00:41:26.250
album is about this hard luck character who has

00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:29.590
gotten in too deep with these bookies that he

00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:32.269
now owes 10 grand to. And this is back in the

00:41:32.269 --> 00:41:34.849
prohibition days with $10 ,000, a lot of money.

00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:37.650
And it's about how he has to like escape them.

00:41:37.789 --> 00:41:41.030
And it's like almost the first song I wrote it.

00:41:41.070 --> 00:41:43.969
And it's kind of like a gangster movie in four

00:41:43.969 --> 00:41:46.030
minutes. You're talking about before the heat

00:41:46.030 --> 00:41:48.659
rolls in, correct? That's correct. Yeah. And

00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:52.239
so this character who appears in Before the Heat

00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:56.920
Rolls In is actually the protagonist to some

00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.579
extent in some of the other tunes. And some of

00:41:59.579 --> 00:42:02.440
the references in that first song come up in

00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:05.980
small ways in other places in the album. And

00:42:05.980 --> 00:42:07.639
I don't want to give too much of it away because

00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.739
that would spoil all the fun. But we had fun

00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:13.130
with that. And then there are a handful of tunes

00:42:13.130 --> 00:42:15.889
that are unrelated to that storyline that we

00:42:15.889 --> 00:42:17.889
just thought were good songs. So we put them

00:42:17.889 --> 00:42:22.250
in. But there is sort of a theme of hard luck

00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:26.289
and perhaps redemption. Maybe not. You know,

00:42:26.309 --> 00:42:30.030
that runs throughout. I love that Texas blues

00:42:30.030 --> 00:42:32.130
swagger of the three songs you mentioned. New

00:42:32.130 --> 00:42:34.369
Cocaine Blues, The Same Old Blues, and Before

00:42:34.369 --> 00:42:37.130
the Heat Rolls In. Now, the next song I want

00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:40.690
to highlight is a country stomper, which is the

00:42:40.690 --> 00:42:43.110
second track on the album following up before

00:42:43.110 --> 00:42:45.630
the heat rolls in. And that's who's taking care

00:42:45.630 --> 00:42:48.050
of the road, which features beautiful harmony

00:42:48.050 --> 00:42:51.590
vocals from Mirny Fowler. To me, this is a very

00:42:51.590 --> 00:42:54.489
interesting choice of track to follow up before

00:42:54.489 --> 00:42:57.289
the heat rolls in because it kind of sets the

00:42:57.289 --> 00:43:00.630
tone for the album, which I feel is this cornucopia

00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:05.139
of musical influences coming together in. Apologies

00:43:05.139 --> 00:43:08.559
for the bad pun, but perfect harmony, so to speak.

00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:11.460
When you guys were working on these songs, was

00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.679
that always the intention or were you guys just

00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:15.559
saying, here's something I came up with, let's

00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:18.219
write it and see where it goes? It was more the

00:43:18.219 --> 00:43:21.199
latter, but we wrote more songs than wound up

00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.280
being on the album. And we actually recorded

00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.139
more songs than wound up being on the album.

00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.780
We have some outtakes that are completely mixed

00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:30.280
at some time before too long. We'll definitely

00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:33.789
see the light of day. Nice. in one form or another.

00:43:34.610 --> 00:43:37.610
But that's actually one of my very favorite tracks

00:43:37.610 --> 00:43:40.329
on the album, because that was one that like

00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:43.570
John had sent me. We wrote the album. First off,

00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:46.650
we wrote the album in we started writing it in

00:43:46.650 --> 00:43:50.320
December of 2020. like at the height of the pandemic

00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.219
lockdown. So we did the initial writing long

00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:57.000
distance, you know? So I said to John, just go

00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:58.940
through your, because John, like when he has

00:43:58.940 --> 00:44:01.699
ideas, he writes them in his notes on his iPhone

00:44:01.699 --> 00:44:04.579
or whatever. And I said, go through your scrap

00:44:04.579 --> 00:44:07.380
bin and just send me anything you want, you know,

00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:10.260
anything you've got. And who's taking care of

00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:14.320
the road when I'm gone was just a line that he

00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:17.309
sent me. That was the only thing. And then I

00:44:17.309 --> 00:44:20.250
started working on the tune. And to me, it sounded

00:44:20.250 --> 00:44:24.929
like the song is reminiscent of somebody robbed

00:44:24.929 --> 00:44:27.429
the Danville train or one of those kind of tunes.

00:44:27.590 --> 00:44:31.449
It's got a classic form where it's like the first

00:44:31.449 --> 00:44:33.369
line repeats several times and then there's a

00:44:33.369 --> 00:44:36.110
payoff line, like a classic sort of country blues

00:44:36.110 --> 00:44:38.429
tune. It reminds me of something Chris LeDoux

00:44:38.429 --> 00:44:41.300
would have done in the 70s and 80s. yeah that's

00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:44.199
certainly also a valid reference it's that kind

00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:48.460
of stuff and it also to an extent could relate

00:44:48.460 --> 00:44:50.920
to this same character you know because he's

00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:53.420
in the first song he's trying to split town you

00:44:53.420 --> 00:44:55.699
know so who's taking care and the whole idea

00:44:55.699 --> 00:44:57.719
of like it's sort of a play on words like who's

00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:59.820
taking care of the road when i'm gone so like

00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:02.380
who's taking care of the road that I'm traveling

00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:04.880
on or who's taking care of the road that I'm

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.199
leaving behind, you know, when I go, you know,

00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.539
again, I don't want to give away too much about

00:45:09.539 --> 00:45:11.539
the song. Y 'all can listen for yourselves right

00:45:11.539 --> 00:45:14.840
now. And Mirny is a great singer, Mirny Fowler.

00:45:14.900 --> 00:45:16.880
She's a great, great singer who lives here in

00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:19.980
Santa Fe. She's a local musician here who I call

00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:22.900
into the studio quite often when I need female.

00:45:23.530 --> 00:45:26.329
background vocals on stuff, harmony vocals. And

00:45:26.329 --> 00:45:29.030
she's a great lead singer in her own right. But

00:45:29.030 --> 00:45:31.190
she's one of those great studio singer in the

00:45:31.190 --> 00:45:33.489
sense that she knows how to like really lock

00:45:33.489 --> 00:45:37.510
in with the lead singer and sing in not just

00:45:37.510 --> 00:45:41.989
perfect harmony, but also sort of assume that

00:45:41.989 --> 00:45:46.190
person's personality and really lock in. So she

00:45:46.190 --> 00:45:49.309
sings with the exception of one line at the very

00:45:49.309 --> 00:45:51.409
end of the song. She sings every note of the

00:45:51.409 --> 00:45:54.710
song along with John. Right. And it really adds

00:45:54.710 --> 00:45:58.210
just also having a female vocal on this. That's

00:45:58.210 --> 00:46:00.969
the only female voice on the album, you know,

00:46:00.969 --> 00:46:04.849
and to have her. along with him on that lyric

00:46:04.849 --> 00:46:07.670
adds a whole nother layer to it to me. And I

00:46:07.670 --> 00:46:09.530
thought that that would be really cool. Because

00:46:09.530 --> 00:46:12.230
first I think, well, maybe I'll harmonize with

00:46:12.230 --> 00:46:13.750
John on this one. But like, no, it should be

00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:15.730
a woman. It should be a female vocal because

00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:17.889
that adds, again, I don't want to give away too

00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:20.949
much, but there's some things in the lyric that

00:46:20.949 --> 00:46:22.869
may give it more significance if it's sung by

00:46:22.869 --> 00:46:25.570
a man and a woman together. The next song I want

00:46:25.570 --> 00:46:27.869
to highlight from the album is what I consider

00:46:27.869 --> 00:46:32.610
a jazz R &B fusion with Old School Country. And

00:46:32.610 --> 00:46:36.150
that is You're Crazy. John, who's known to hit

00:46:36.150 --> 00:46:39.449
some high stratospheric upper register notes

00:46:39.449 --> 00:46:42.869
vocally, goes to the complete other side of the

00:46:42.869 --> 00:46:46.630
spectrum here, delivering some really deep and

00:46:46.630 --> 00:46:49.789
ethereal vocal runs, showing off a side of his

00:46:49.789 --> 00:46:52.190
voice that I don't think people normally associate

00:46:52.190 --> 00:46:55.969
with him. So to me, this song really stuck out

00:46:55.969 --> 00:47:01.139
from the whole album. really exudes this modern

00:47:01.139 --> 00:47:04.739
Americana feel, but simultaneously takes you

00:47:04.739 --> 00:47:07.320
back to a completely different era of music.

00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:09.659
Was that the intention you were looking for in

00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:12.840
this song? Yes, absolutely. John's vocal performance

00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.960
on that song is also one of my favorites. And

00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:19.239
he was sort of channeling, if you listen to like

00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:23.519
early R &B, like, you know, precursors of like

00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:26.639
the pop r &b tunes like by groups like the ink

00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:28.920
spots or people like that the way those guys

00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:32.800
used to sing going up i can't even do it but

00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:35.460
these high runs that they would do you know it's

00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:37.920
kind of where john was going with his with his

00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.960
vocal performance on that tune the song itself

00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:44.420
the whole vibe of it with the sort of like this

00:47:44.420 --> 00:47:47.960
it's got a sounds like to me i wanted the production

00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:52.050
of that song to sound like it's after hours in

00:47:52.050 --> 00:47:55.750
a speakeasy. The place is closed. I guess it's

00:47:55.750 --> 00:47:58.829
always after hours in a speakeasy. But the place

00:47:58.829 --> 00:48:01.489
is closed. It's full of like blue with cigarette

00:48:01.489 --> 00:48:04.329
smoke. The piano player is sitting there. Jason

00:48:04.329 --> 00:48:07.349
played some amazing piano on that too. His piano

00:48:07.349 --> 00:48:09.570
playing on that tune is great. You know, and

00:48:09.570 --> 00:48:13.030
the way the band, if you ever saw the film To

00:48:13.030 --> 00:48:16.070
Have and Have Not with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren

00:48:16.070 --> 00:48:19.510
Bacall in the... There are several scenes where

00:48:19.510 --> 00:48:23.489
Hoagy Carmichael and his band play in that film.

00:48:23.570 --> 00:48:27.530
And Lauren Bacall sings with them the song How

00:48:27.530 --> 00:48:29.969
Little We Know, which was written by Hoagy Carmichael.

00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:34.829
And I kind of that's obviously predates the early

00:48:34.829 --> 00:48:37.230
50s era that I was talking about. This goes back

00:48:37.230 --> 00:48:39.250
to like, you know, this is the early days. That

00:48:39.250 --> 00:48:42.650
movie takes place in the late 1930s, the very

00:48:42.650 --> 00:48:47.719
beginning of World War Two. But that vibe of

00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:50.659
the how the band, if you ever watch that film,

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.039
how the band in that film interacts. And again,

00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:57.000
they're playing in like this smoky bar in the

00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.539
lobby of this funky hotel in Martinique, you

00:49:00.539 --> 00:49:04.099
know, and that was kind of what I was going for.

00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.059
That feeling of just sort of like the old timey

00:49:07.059 --> 00:49:09.880
and the musicians are sort of feeling each other

00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:12.449
and interacting in that sort of. organic way.

00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:16.929
And I think we got it. And the song itself sounds

00:49:16.929 --> 00:49:22.130
like a breakup song between a guy and his partner.

00:49:22.329 --> 00:49:25.670
But if you listen to the lyric carefully, it's

00:49:25.670 --> 00:49:29.730
actually a breakup song between the singer and

00:49:29.730 --> 00:49:32.710
a certain former president of the United States.

00:49:33.309 --> 00:49:37.460
Hopefully not soon to be. the next president

00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:41.000
of the united states but if you listen to the

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:44.159
lyric with that in mind that's what the song

00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.880
was initially written about but it can be taken

00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:51.219
completely at face value but if you should listen

00:49:51.219 --> 00:49:54.699
to it again and think about you know i don't

00:49:54.699 --> 00:49:56.880
want to bring politics into the discussion but

00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.659
uh but but i did but um if you listen to it with

00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:03.599
that in mind you'll see what i mean well the

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:07.460
next song up you also released a video visualizer

00:50:07.460 --> 00:50:09.579
for, which is Cabin Fever. And this one, I want

00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:11.559
to focus on something that you're doing in the

00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:15.199
track because John's vocals are layered against

00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:17.800
a banjo that you're playing throughout the song.

00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:22.000
And I feel like it really adds a signature sound

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.960
and tension to this track. And it makes it a

00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:29.000
standout for me. What gave you the idea to kind

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:32.360
of follow the vocal melody with the banjo? Or

00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:36.170
was that the other way around? Yeah, you know,

00:50:36.170 --> 00:50:38.050
I think that they're sort of interconnected.

00:50:38.369 --> 00:50:40.909
You know, it's one of those songs. I wanted it

00:50:40.909 --> 00:50:44.510
to have that, you know, and again, in the first

00:50:44.510 --> 00:50:47.710
song in before the heat rolls in the line, the

00:50:47.710 --> 00:50:50.090
song goes twelve hundred miles to Baton Rouge.

00:50:50.269 --> 00:50:53.070
I know a cabin up in the woods. We make it there.

00:50:53.150 --> 00:50:55.909
We're gone for good. Right. And then at the end

00:50:55.909 --> 00:50:59.360
of the song. Before the heat rolls in, there's

00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.300
blood on the money, blood on the ground. It could

00:51:02.300 --> 00:51:04.500
be yours or maybe mine. Run out of luck, run

00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.679
out of time. So at the end of the song, before

00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:11.539
the heat rolls in, our hero and his gun mall

00:51:11.539 --> 00:51:14.480
sidekick are in deep trouble. And we don't know

00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:17.840
who's been shot or what's happened. But then

00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:21.360
several songs later in the album, this guy, the

00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.659
singer of the song, is alone in a cabin. Right

00:51:24.659 --> 00:51:26.940
now, it could be the same cabin that the guy

00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:29.019
in the first song is talking about. Maybe yes,

00:51:29.300 --> 00:51:33.340
maybe no. And he talks about, you know, cabin

00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:35.519
fever setting and he's hallucinating, you know,

00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:37.599
and I can see you through the window, but I cannot

00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:40.239
touch your skin. Is it a ghost who stands before

00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:44.440
me or cabin fever setting in? So maybe just maybe

00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:47.679
it's the same guy from the first song who did

00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.440
make it there, but maybe she didn't, you know,

00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:55.280
so. I don't know. Could be. And so I wanted the

00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:58.500
song to have that sort of high and lonesome feeling,

00:51:58.579 --> 00:52:01.360
like almost like, you know, well, in the first

00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:03.639
song, he's trying to make it to Louisiana somewhere

00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:07.139
in the remote swamps or up in the woods of Louisiana

00:52:07.139 --> 00:52:10.119
to this cabin to hide out. So I wanted the song

00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:12.599
to have sort of a high, lonesome feel to it.

00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:16.699
So I decided to play and banjo is not my instrument.

00:52:16.780 --> 00:52:20.000
So, you know, it's it's a very simple banjo part,

00:52:20.179 --> 00:52:25.110
but it fits. the song. And so the idea of that

00:52:25.110 --> 00:52:28.309
kind of melody, that kind of song, very often,

00:52:28.369 --> 00:52:31.630
like those Appalachian folk songs, the vocal

00:52:31.630 --> 00:52:35.570
melody, like a fiddle or a banjo will be mirroring

00:52:35.570 --> 00:52:39.269
the vocal melody. Yes. And the two sort of dance

00:52:39.269 --> 00:52:41.469
together. So that's what I was going for, you

00:52:41.469 --> 00:52:44.750
know, and whether it was one leading the other,

00:52:44.769 --> 00:52:46.369
I don't know. They just sort of go together.

00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.119
Love it. Well, the last track I want to discuss

00:52:50.119 --> 00:52:53.639
is my current favorite song on the album. The

00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:57.500
infectious head bobbing jam rocker cover my hands.

00:52:57.940 --> 00:53:01.260
This song has a blistering harmonica solo, a

00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:05.360
tasty guitar solo. And musically, it brings me

00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.440
full circle to the almost home in four albums.

00:53:08.500 --> 00:53:10.659
You and I were talking about earlier in the night.

00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:15.059
If you guys were touring this album to me, this

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:19.579
is the. show opening track and speaking of touring

00:53:19.579 --> 00:53:22.119
you have some shows coming up this fall with

00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.199
blues traveler yes are there any plans to break

00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:28.159
out some of these songs during those shows yes

00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:32.559
i think the plan as of now i can't confirm 100

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.659
is that i'll be doing my opening set and then

00:53:35.659 --> 00:53:38.300
during blues traveler set i will join the band

00:53:38.300 --> 00:53:42.380
and we will perform one of the songs from bootlegger

00:53:42.380 --> 00:53:45.719
days that's part of the plan and i agree with

00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:48.059
you that cover my hands as a matter of fact at

00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:50.599
one point that was going to be the album opener

00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:52.599
and i know what you're saying it's like the kickoff

00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:54.679
the show kind of song because of the way the

00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:57.139
introduction happens it's got that guitar intro

00:53:57.139 --> 00:54:02.539
you know and it's uh it's kind of draws you in

00:54:02.909 --> 00:54:05.809
And you're right. It groove wise, it's the one

00:54:05.809 --> 00:54:08.309
that connects most with sort of like the earlier

00:54:08.309 --> 00:54:11.449
blues traveler and the roots rock kind of sounds

00:54:11.449 --> 00:54:14.929
that we used to all do. It's definitely the most

00:54:14.929 --> 00:54:18.590
connected to that. And that was also kind of

00:54:18.590 --> 00:54:22.969
conscious. And again, if you listen to the lyric

00:54:22.969 --> 00:54:26.909
of that song, in my mind, the guy who's singing

00:54:26.909 --> 00:54:30.409
that song is like. is now like lost and it's

00:54:30.409 --> 00:54:32.829
like he's speaking to somebody right because

00:54:32.829 --> 00:54:35.230
he keeps saying boys he's like talking to these

00:54:35.230 --> 00:54:38.050
guys who he's with like you know so pass me down

00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:40.349
the bottle instead you know i can't drink her

00:54:40.349 --> 00:54:42.329
out of my head boys i can't drink her out of

00:54:42.329 --> 00:54:44.969
my head right he's talking about this woman that

00:54:44.969 --> 00:54:48.289
he was unable to to she loved him but he couldn't

00:54:48.289 --> 00:54:51.389
love her back and he's now he's he's lost and

00:54:51.389 --> 00:54:53.769
maybe he's like maybe the guys he's like he's

00:54:53.769 --> 00:54:57.349
in some mining camp somewhere you know and he's

00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.159
made his way up to Alaska or someplace where

00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:02.960
he's hiding out with these guys and it's at night

00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:05.179
and they're all drinking and telling their tales

00:55:05.179 --> 00:55:07.780
of woe to one. I don't know. Maybe that's what

00:55:07.780 --> 00:55:10.539
it is. But I agree with you that groove wise,

00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:13.920
it's pretty funky. And in that kind of sort of

00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:17.599
like it's not super fast, but it's super swampy.

00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.320
you know, in that way. And yeah, and John's solo

00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.300
on that is pretty incredible. He's a pretty good

00:55:22.300 --> 00:55:25.199
harmonica player, you know? Yeah, I've been figuring

00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:28.480
that out over the years. Yeah. Now, Jono, for

00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:30.500
my last question, first off, I've been having

00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:32.539
such a great time talking with you tonight, but

00:55:32.539 --> 00:55:36.420
if you had to choose three songs that you've

00:55:36.420 --> 00:55:40.659
recorded across your entire career that you feel

00:55:40.659 --> 00:55:44.559
best defines your musical legacy, what three

00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:49.559
songs would you pick and why? Oh, God. Save the

00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:52.300
best for last. That's an awful question to ask

00:55:52.300 --> 00:55:57.300
somebody. Which three of my 700 children do I

00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:00.260
like the best? I know it's a tough one. Well,

00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:04.050
is that songs of my own or songs by? that i've

00:56:04.050 --> 00:56:07.590
recorded for other artists or i was mainly speaking

00:56:07.590 --> 00:56:09.869
songs from your catalog but if there's a song

00:56:09.869 --> 00:56:12.550
you wrote that somebody else recorded and you

00:56:12.550 --> 00:56:14.670
want to include that by i mean there's no rules

00:56:14.670 --> 00:56:20.789
here yeah well let's say Well, going back to

00:56:20.789 --> 00:56:25.110
like my very early days, like the very first

00:56:25.110 --> 00:56:28.289
song that I recorded in like a bonafide studio

00:56:28.289 --> 00:56:31.349
where I was the singer on the song was with the

00:56:31.349 --> 00:56:35.690
Worms back in like 1980. And that was a song

00:56:35.690 --> 00:56:38.030
called One Night Only. And it was the first time

00:56:38.030 --> 00:56:40.710
that I was like the lead singer. And we released

00:56:40.710 --> 00:56:45.539
that only on cassette. that was like, you know,

00:56:45.539 --> 00:56:48.039
a pretty important recording for me. Cause it

00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:50.000
was like the first, I mean, I'd got, I'd made

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.559
recordings with kid bands that I was in and stuff,

00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:53.880
but this is like the first time we went into

00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.880
like a real studio, you know, and this is whatever

00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:01.699
43 years ago. And we did that. And I was 18 or

00:57:01.699 --> 00:57:04.460
19 years old when we recorded that. So that was

00:57:04.460 --> 00:57:06.000
pretty important to me. It's not necessarily

00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.019
the greatest recording that I've ever made, but

00:57:09.019 --> 00:57:12.559
it was big milestone for me. And then. moving

00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:16.480
forward um let me think about it for a minute

00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:22.440
well let's see this is a really difficult question

00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:26.179
brian um you know because there's so many songs

00:57:26.179 --> 00:57:28.440
that like have significance for me of course

00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:30.900
for different reasons you know because of what

00:57:30.900 --> 00:57:34.400
they mean to me in terms of marking my life at

00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:37.449
that time just like Just like listeners do, you

00:57:37.449 --> 00:57:39.590
know, listeners listen to a song that brings

00:57:39.590 --> 00:57:41.550
them back. Oh, the first time I heard Honky Tonk

00:57:41.550 --> 00:57:44.429
Women that summer that that that record came

00:57:44.429 --> 00:57:47.090
out, I was, you know, on the dock at summer vacation

00:57:47.090 --> 00:57:49.929
and heard that song. And wow, you know, I remember

00:57:49.929 --> 00:57:52.510
that the smell of the salt air at that time,

00:57:52.550 --> 00:57:55.929
whatever, you know. But let's see. I'm trying

00:57:55.929 --> 00:57:58.570
to think of stuff that's more recent, more recent

00:57:58.570 --> 00:58:03.809
than 45 years ago. But I mean, certainly some

00:58:03.809 --> 00:58:07.000
of the tracks on. almost home, like the first

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.380
one's free was also first one's free in a way

00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:14.099
does connect with cover my hands, you know, because

00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:17.239
of the way the groove goes, you know, if they're

00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:21.860
also both in, in, in the key of E and have a

00:58:21.860 --> 00:58:24.699
very kind of similar swampy groove, they're not

00:58:24.699 --> 00:58:26.940
the same tune by any means, but, but I'd say

00:58:26.940 --> 00:58:29.139
that one was also a big one for me just because,

00:58:29.219 --> 00:58:31.679
and that, that is the lead off track on that

00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.300
album. And then more recently, The lead off track

00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:40.260
on my most recent album, Lights Go Out, is the

00:58:40.260 --> 00:58:42.860
name of the song. Currently means a lot to me,

00:58:42.940 --> 00:58:45.940
although I really like a lot of the songs on

00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:50.079
my newest album, Stars Enough to Guide Me. And

00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:53.960
the title of the album comes from that song,

00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:57.119
Lights Go Out. And basically the song uses a

00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:02.059
boxing metaphor. And I wrote that song. I was

00:59:02.059 --> 00:59:05.380
having a particularly difficult. couple of days

00:59:05.380 --> 00:59:07.599
for reasons that i won't go into just you know

00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:11.420
life shit happening and i said to myself out

00:59:11.420 --> 00:59:14.820
loud i just said i'm broken this you know everyone's

00:59:14.820 --> 00:59:18.699
wise i just i give up you know i am broken and

00:59:18.699 --> 00:59:21.800
then the first line of the chorus goes i am broken

00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.559
i am reeling i am knocked down for the count

00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:27.880
i am staring at the ceiling but i won't let the

00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:30.139
lights go out in other words like even at that

00:59:30.139 --> 00:59:32.880
last moment you know and the first lines of the

00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:35.820
song say you know Always want to come out swinging.

00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:38.860
Never saw the use in holding back. Even when

00:59:38.860 --> 00:59:41.360
the final bell was ringing, I came on like a

00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:43.579
heart attack. And that's kind of the story of

00:59:43.579 --> 00:59:45.840
my life in a lot of ways. You know, I've had

00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:49.539
a lot of successes, but I've also like been musically

00:59:49.539 --> 00:59:51.460
and professionally been in the trenches for a

00:59:51.460 --> 00:59:54.699
long time. I'm still, you know, I'm very lucky

00:59:54.699 --> 00:59:57.179
to collaborate with the people I do and to have

00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:59.920
the what notoriety I have. But I'm still just

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:02.880
I'm a working musician. You know, I've always

01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.500
been and probably always will be. And I don't

01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:09.539
mind that, you know, but to my story, there's

01:00:09.539 --> 01:00:13.579
an element of continued like triumph over adversity

01:00:13.579 --> 01:00:16.880
and not just me. Most the vast majority of working

01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:19.780
musicians can relate to this. And even guys who

01:00:19.780 --> 01:00:21.760
are famous, you know, I mean, look, we were talking

01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:24.079
about John before we came on and how he's like

01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:27.219
had at the end of the last tour, struggling with

01:00:27.219 --> 01:00:28.840
problems with his voice. And so there's always

01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:32.389
something that you have to overcome. And so in

01:00:32.389 --> 01:00:34.730
this business, no matter what level you're at.

01:00:34.889 --> 01:00:37.730
And so that song resonates with me at this point

01:00:37.730 --> 01:00:40.750
in my life. And the idea for that song, I heard

01:00:40.750 --> 01:00:42.849
an interview on the radio. I can't remember who

01:00:42.849 --> 01:00:45.829
the guy was, but I was driving in the car was

01:00:45.829 --> 01:00:49.849
an NPR with some boxer who had held a title like

01:00:49.849 --> 01:00:52.670
a light or middleweight title, but also held

01:00:52.670 --> 01:00:55.530
a record for being the title holder who had been

01:00:55.530 --> 01:00:58.929
knocked down in the ring the most times. But

01:00:58.929 --> 01:01:01.309
his thing was like, well, as long as you get

01:01:01.309 --> 01:01:04.909
up one more time than you've been knocked down,

01:01:05.070 --> 01:01:07.650
you still stand a chance of winning. You know,

01:01:07.650 --> 01:01:09.929
and that really stuck with me. It's like doesn't

01:01:09.929 --> 01:01:12.449
matter in life or in your professional career

01:01:12.449 --> 01:01:15.369
or whatever. You get knocked down. And that's

01:01:15.369 --> 01:01:17.329
the bridge of that song says, you know, knocked

01:01:17.329 --> 01:01:19.869
down two times, stood up three. Ain't nobody

01:01:19.869 --> 01:01:22.289
get the better of me. Knocked down nine. But

01:01:22.289 --> 01:01:24.650
I stood up 10 and I'm ready to go all over again.

01:01:25.019 --> 01:01:27.280
So it's like, doesn't matter if you've been knocked

01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:29.559
down nine times, as long as you stand up 10 times,

01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:33.219
you're in their game. And so that's life, not

01:01:33.219 --> 01:01:35.400
just for me, but for all of us in a nutshell,

01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:37.460
you know, it doesn't matter if you get battered

01:01:37.460 --> 01:01:39.099
around, as long as you get back on your feet,

01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:42.800
you got a chance. Absolutely inspiring. Jono

01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.280
Manson, this has truly been a pleasure. Thank

01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.679
you so much for joining me tonight on My Weekly

01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:50.000
Mixtape. Thanks for having me, man. It's fun

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.559
to talk to you and your questions were excellent

01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.599
and insightful. So I really appreciate it. Thank

01:01:55.599 --> 01:01:58.860
you, sir. And remember, you can head to myweeklymixtape

01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:01.199
.com to hear all the songs we've talked about

01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:04.440
tonight via the playlist embedded on the episode

01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.139
page, along with checking out the full catalog

01:02:07.139 --> 01:02:10.400
of My Weekly Mixtape episodes. And if you like

01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:12.320
what you're hearing on the show, you can help

01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:14.820
me out by either telling a friend, leaving a

01:02:14.820 --> 01:02:16.840
five -star review wherever you're tuning in,

01:02:16.940 --> 01:02:20.320
or becoming a Patreon mixtaper at patreon .com

01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:23.579
forward slash myweeklymixtape. That's all for

01:02:23.579 --> 01:02:25.360
this week. Thanks again for listening. And until

01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:27.300
next time. enjoy the tunes.