Hi, this is John O'Manson, and you're listening
to my weekly mixtape with Brian Colburn. And
this show is great because Brian does his homework,
he knows what he's talking about, and he asks
the deep and probing questions that you want
to hear the answers to. Welcome to My Weekly
Mixtape, a podcast that takes the classic mixtape
approach to building a modern playlist. I'm your
host, Brian Colburn. One of my favorite music
scenes growing up was the New York City rock
scene in the early 90s. As you may remember,
I discussed this scene with Aaron Comis of the
Spin Doctors a few weeks back. Well, tonight,
I'm excited to continue exploring that scene
with my guest, Jono Manson, who has a new duo
album entitled Bootlegger Days that he recorded
with yet another member of that New York City
scene, Jon Popper of Blues Traveler. Jono, thank
you so much for joining me on my weekly mixtape.
Thank you for having me. I'm pleased to be here.
Well, Jono, to kick things off, I always like
to ask first -time guests, what does the word
mixtape mean to you? Ah, well, you know, I'm
62 years old, so I grew up in the golden age
of the mixtape, you know, at least as far as
I'm concerned, where cassettes were king. And
mixtape means quite a number of things to me.
On one hand, I used to make them for myself,
putting together, like recording things. either
off the radio because I had a radio like a cassette
player that could record off the radio like when
of course a lot of those things like the first
couple seconds of the song weren't there because
you heard the song you wanted to record you and
you didn't have time to press record in time
you know and then later making them mixtapes
off of LPs you know when I was really young doing
that and then of course finding early crushes,
you know, with girls and trying to woo them with
my fantastic and eclectic taste in music and
giving mixtapes to some girl who you really,
you know, who I was also I'm a pretty extroverted
person now. But when I was a teenager, I was
painfully shy. So it was easier for me to like
some girl who was going away for the summer.
And I was hoping would think about me in some
way while while she was gone, you know, while
we were. physically apart it was easier for me
to like hand her a cassette tape and run away
than to say anything to her you know so and then
during times in my life bandmates of mine would
make mixtapes for me like for example i was in
this band called joey miserable and the worms
later just the worms for almost 10 years in new
york and um That band, the other sort of co -front
man of that band was Simon Chartier, who's also
still very active in New York. And he was like
and still is a walking encyclopedia of. early
rock and roll and so he would make mixtapes for
me of stuff that he thought i should know about
because he's he was born in 1958 so he's like
three four years older than me and at that age
when you're in your early 20s that age difference
makes a difference he was older than me he knew
more you know and so he would make these mixtapes
for me and educate me about like 50s like rockabilly
and early r &b like from the late 40s and early
50s so mixtape means a lot to me i mean mixtapes
played a big role in my life awesome well for
tonight's conversation i'd first like to explore
the musical relationship between you and john
that leads us up to bootlegger days and then
we'll dive into some of the highlights from this
amazing album awesome So to start, I want to
go back to the late 80s, early 90s, as Blues
Traveler cut their teeth in the New York City
music scene by opening for the band that you
just spoke about, Joey Miserable and the Worms.
Could you start by giving the listeners an idea
of what New York City's music scene was like
in general during that time period, and then
how the musical relationship with the guys from
Blues Traveler came to fruition? Sure. At that
time, at the time when I started playing in clubs
in New York, the late 70s and early 1980s, there
was sort of an explosion of live music. I think
on the heels of the whole, after the disco era,
then came punk rock and new wave and a renewed
interest in what we now call Americana. But back
then there was a whole rockabilly revival and
sort of roots music was once again. people were
interested in hearing it and there was an explosion
of live music and live music venues in new york
every like hole in the wall you know and some
of them became very famous holes in the wall
like places like cbgbs and the nightingale where
we used to play quite regularly became sort of
hubs of these various scenes. And I think that
the whole punk rock thing was sort of the catalyst
for that because all of a sudden, the DIY music
spaces, little bars that didn't, any place where
you could stick a band in the corner wanted people
to play. And people were thirsty for live music
and not cover bands. Everyone wanted to hear
something new and different and original. And
I think that was sort of the spawning ground.
for the sort of rebirth of the sort of what became
the jam band scene that grew out of that in the
mid 80s into the 90s. And my band, The Worms,
we used to sort of hold court at Nightingale
very regularly. And this, for those of you out
there who never went there, it was a small...
funky dive bar that probably legally was able
to have like maybe a hundred people in there,
but they would shoehorn maybe 300 a night in
there. I mean, it was so jam packed and it would
be so hot and sweaty that I remember like the
ceiling used to sweat. Like people sweat would
like go up to the ceiling, condense and drip
back down. I mean, it was funky, but in the best
sense of that word, you know, and John Popper,
you know, is. a year older than the other founding
members of Blues Traveler. So he graduated high
school before them. And so they were still in
high school, but he was free to roam before the
other three guys were before, you know, Bobby
Chan and Brendan were able to run. So John started
kind of poking around before blues traveler really
started coming across from they were all still
living in New Jersey and Princeton. And so I
remember meeting John earlier on and he would
come and ask to sit in. And of course, he was
phenomenal back then as a harmonica player. And
then. The following year, Blues Traveler as a
band sort of made the move to New York. You know,
they moved to New York and it's kind of the fairy
tale story for them. They moved to New York and
all moved into one apartment together in Brooklyn
and, you know, to make it as a band. And you're
correct when you say that some of their earliest
gigs were opening for us at places like the Nightingale
because we had a large following and they were
great. Already, they were really good. They were
still, you know, in their formative stage, but
they already had some of the songs that later
became famous tunes for them. But anyway, and
songs like that from their earlier repertoire.
And John was always such a phenomenal instrumentalist,
soloist and frontman that. people were immediately
attracted to him. So that's my earliest memories
of seeing them play and hearing them play and
interacting with them. And we all kind of became
friends and collaborators very early on. Well,
over the years, you guys played a lot of gigs
together. And then you actually started a side
project with members of the band called High
Plains Drifter, which featured both Chan Kinchela
and Bobby Sheehan from Blues Traveler, as well
as at one point, Eric Shankman from the Spin
Doctors, who is filling in for Chan. Can you
talk about what brought this group together and
the legacy that they formed amongst fans who
were lucky to see this New York City? scene super
group in action the band actually started in
1992 i moved out away from new york to new mexico
where i still live today in santa fe and i'm
the new york outpost at the i'm like you know
so like they sent me out like kevin costner dances
with wolves they sent me to the outpost and so
bobby and chan used bobby in particular used
to come out here and visit with me and we would
jam and do musical projects and sometimes play
gigs here and both of those guys bobby and chan
really liked to in the off times go and like
hang out and play gigs in the colorado ski towns
because of course colorado has always been a
hotbed also for the jam band world you know red
rocks is there and just the whole culture there
and the vibe is very conducive to that kind of
music and so they've The initial seed for putting
that band together, they approached me and said,
how about we put this band together? Me, you
know, Bobby and Chan and me and Mark Clark, who's
a drummer from New Mexico, who I started working
with when I moved out here, who I'm still working
with all the time to this day, 30 plus years
later. And the initial impetus for putting it
together was so we could get these gigs up in
like Vail and Aspen and Breckenridge and Steamboat
Springs, all the ski towns in the winter when
Blues Traveler had breaks in their schedule.
And we'd go up there and play these. There were
great gigs and super cool venues. And then the
guys could go skiing and party and do all the
fun stuff that you can do up in Colorado. So
it was kind of like. Blues Traveler was already
extremely busy and had already become a very
popular and big touring act. But they wanted
to have something. on the side that would feel
less pressureful for them. That would be like,
okay, we're doing this for fun. And that doesn't
mean we didn't from the get -go take the music
very seriously, which we did. So I was sort of
the front guy for that band. And as you mentioned,
Shankman was also a revolving member of the band.
And John Popper used to come and be on gigs too.
And as well as like Warren Haynes would sometimes
come and sit in with us and a bunch of other
people from that scene. And then it started to
build momentum and we started to do gigs. elsewhere,
not just for these like wintertime sort of fun
break vacation. And that's where the name High
Plains Drifter came from, because New Mexico
is in the high plains. And so that's why we chose
that name. And then, you know, after a while,
this is right around the time that Blues Traveler
4 was just coming out and their relationship,
the band's relationship with A &M Records was.
Such that they came, they, Bobby and Chan, or
I think Bobby in particular, went to the suits
at A &M and said, you know, we have this side
project that we'd like to make a record with,
if that's possible. And A &M checked out what
we were doing and gave us a budget to make a
record, but they didn't. For legal reasons, they
didn't want the record to be called High Plains
Drifter because there was too many. Anytime the
lawyers at the label say, oh, we've got this
too much red tape to do to get permission to
use that name, then we could get sued, blah,
blah, blah. Call it the Jono Manson Band. You
know, Jono owns his name. There's going to be
no problem with that, which, of course, we were
fine with. And so that's how that record got
made for A &M back in 1996. That album, Almost
Home, kicks off with the song that actually introduced
me to your music, The First One's Free, and also
included amazing tracks such as Talk to You,
which features Warren Haynes, like you mentioned,
Sad State of Affairs, and Miss Fabulous, which
was featured on both the Almost Home album, as
well as on the soundtrack to a little movie called
Kingpin. I've always wondered, the songs on Almost
Home, those were... High Plains Drifter tracks?
Or was that stuff that you guys wrote after the
deal with A &M came together? Many of those songs
were songs that we had in our repertoire. And
then a handful of them were tunes that I had
laying around that we decided to record for one
reason or another. And we made that record pretty
quickly. I mean, we had a limited, and it's not
like it wasn't a rush job, but because those
guys were busy, we all had our other commitments,
especially them. So we chose material that we
felt like fit the band. But yeah, but some of
those things, like Miss Fabulous was certainly
a song that we were already playing with High
Plains Drifter. One Horse Town, which is a ballad
on that record, is another one that we were first
ones free. We were already playing with High
Plains Drifter. And then the rest of them were
songs that I had written or other guys. There's
a couple songs written by Joe Flood, who was
another member of our scene, you know. And so
we just picked material that we felt fit our
vibe, you know, and that we could record well.
And that's how the choice of material for that
record came about. And also Mike Barbiero, who
produced the album, weighed in and we gave him
a bunch of tunes to listen to. And he weighed
in on which he thought were the 10 strongest
to record. I think he was on to something because
it's definitely a fantastic album. Thank you.
You're welcome. And for someone who's never had
the privilege to have any of my songs on a major
motion picture soundtrack, from the business
side of things, I'd love to know, considering
how popular Kingpin was amongst my age group
at that time, did you as an artist see a tangible
impact from having Miss Fabulous featured in
the movie and on the soundtrack? Yeah. I mean,
Miss Fabulous is one of the songs on the album
that I didn't write. Joe Flood wrote that song.
So when you're the recording artist, you also
get some dough from it. But the publishing money,
the writer's money goes to the writer of the
song. But I've also had songs of mine that I've
written in other major motion pictures, too.
And so I can attest to the fact that the initial
impact in terms of getting a little chunk of
change from the movie is great. And then the
residual effect of the exposure that you get
from having your song in a movie like that. can
be very far -reaching in ways that you don't
expect. I'll give you, for example, this is from
a different thing. I had the song Almost Home,
which is a title track of the album Almost Home.
A different recording of that song was used in
a Kevin Costner movie called The Postman. Oh!
And I'm actually in the film singing it, you
know. And The Postman was a very long sort of
post -apocalyptic thriller that didn't do that
well in the box office. It was not it wasn't
it wasn't a critical success. But Tom Petty's
in the movie, too. It's pretty fun. I got to
hang with him when we were making the movie.
But the point is that that song and also Miss
Fabulous in Kingpin turned a lot of people on
to my music. I still to this day get emails from
people say I discovered you because of. kingpin
you know and this song almost home in the costner
movie like at one point i got an email from these
musicians in pakistan right and they're young
these guys weren't even alive when that movie
came out saying you know we love your music and
we're fans of you because of your appearance
in this film and we want you to collaborate with
us and i won't go into the all the details but
it wound up being it's a collaboration that continues
to this day that started like 10 years ago and
i wound up going to pakistan and recording with
these guys and having all kinds of crazy adventures
things that wouldn't have happened if i hadn't
had that song in a movie so and especially now
in today's landscape of the music business where
You know, in the digital world, of course, it's
getting harder and harder to get paid for your
music once it's been released. You know, the
whole Spotify and streaming conundrum is. Getting
synchronization, you know, namely having your
songs coupled with moving images of some sort
or another, either on films or on television,
is one of the last frontiers for us who make
and who write and record music to get it out
there in a really meaningful way that sometimes
just self -releasing or putting out our songs
just as audio doesn't have the same impact. So
it's great anytime that happens. Well, I want
to jump on something you had just mentioned,
because one of the reasons I haven't become an
all in guy on streaming is because some albums
just don't exist on Apple Music or Spotify. And
personally, I think it's a crime that Almost
Home is not on there. Thankfully, I still have
my original CD to spin whenever I want. Yeah,
it's something that I need to explore because
in theory, the masters for that album are owned
by Universal, who bought A &M. And I don't know
what I legally need to do to get permission to
just release it on my own. And I need to explore
that. I need to talk to my attorney and get her
to investigate on my behalf. When you're in this
kind of conundrum. The two things to do are either
talk to your attorney and to get them to go contact
people and go through channels or just put it
out and see if you get to see if someone contacts
you with a cease and desist, you know, because
even though I am the artist on that and wrote
the lion's share of those songs, et cetera, et
cetera. When a record company pays to have an
artist record something, they own the master
recordings. They don't necessarily own the songs.
I could re -record those songs if I wanted to
at this point, but those particular recordings
are not my property. So it's a good point you
make, Brian. I need to find out about that, and
I'll keep you posted, because I think a lot of
people would be happy if that record were streamable.
Yeah, and you also talked about other songs that...
Didn't make the final cut. If they're still available,
maybe a deluxe anniversary edition. I'm just
throwing that out there. I do have some outtakes
lurking. So, yes. All right. Well, I do want
to go back prior to Almost Home. You appeared
as a guest on Blues Traveler's Smash Album 4
as a guest vocalist on the album's closing track,
Brother John. Can you talk about how that all
came together? Yeah, I was in New York. This
was in 1990. you know, whatever, 1994, 95, when
they were recording that record. And I was in
New York working on an album of my own. I'd already
moved to Santa Fe, but I was back in New York
working on a record. And Popper came out and
played on my record that I was working on. I
can't remember which happened first. Either he
came to the studio I was working in, but the
guys called me up and said, you know, we're working
on this album at Electric Lady. And there's this
one song where we need somebody else to sing
at the end. And we thought it'd be great if you
would do it. So, of course, I went to the studio.
There's Electric Lady Studios on A Street in
Manhattan, Jimi Hendrix's studio. And who wouldn't
go? Who wouldn't do that? And I think I got there
like they were working late hours. I got there
like 11 o 'clock at night or something. And I
don't think we recorded that track until like
three in the morning or something. And I remember
they had already recorded Run Around, and I heard
that, and they had also just recorded Hook. And
John was like, check this out. Check out this
song, Hook. It's Pachelbel's Canon. And I sing
all the horn parts and everything. I made these
lyrics, and it's really cool, and I think it's
going to be great. And so I'm like one of the
first people who heard either of those tunes,
which of course became, and of course, one of
my favorite blues travel songs of all time, Mountains
Win Again. is on that record and i don't think
i heard mountains when i was in the studio with
them doing my vocals on brother john but i heard
did hear run around and hook and got the sense
right away that this was going to be a breakthrough
for them because they were already popular they
had already developed a very rabid following
just because of their relentless touring but
they hadn't really broken through big time commercially
and i could tell that the way this record was
sounding that this was their chance and sure
enough it was and um over here behind the camera
over there on the wall i've got my platinum album
award for having for having been a part of that
record you know and uh i didn't get paid to sing
so that platinum album award and like 375 will
get me a latte at starbucks but uh but you know
it was one of those things it goes back to our
I'm just joking. You know, we all used to do
everything to help one another. And like I said,
during that same week, John came out and played
on my record and I didn't pay him either. So,
you know, it was all about collaboration. And
that's one of the earmarks of the scene that
we came from. There was no sense of competition
whatsoever. You know, there was no sense of territorial.
being guarded about, you know, oh, if these guys
come, they're going to steal my gig or this or
that. There was some there was enough to go around
and nobody cared. And it was really I'm very
fortunate. And so are those guys. We all are
the people that came out of that scene to have
learned that way and to have to go forth into
the world with that sense of giving, which I
do every day here in my studio in Santa Fe. You
know, when I'm working with other artists. be
the established bands or emergent young artists
or emergent old artists you know that sense of
like investing of yourself in other people's
interests is i think was instilled in me back
in those days well i want to jump off you mentioned
one of your favorite songs from blues traveler
it happens to be one of mine as well the mountains
win again and i want to time jump here because
in 2008 you sang on a version of the mountains
win again for the band's cover yourself album,
which was a very interesting release for me as
a blues traveler fan, because they took some
big chances and liberties in rearranging their
most popular songs for you as the singer. What
was it like stepping into the studio to try to
put your stamp on a song that was so widely known
and beloved? Well, you know, the advantage of
that particular version was that they had already
sort of reinvented the arrangement to a point
where I didn't feel like I had to replicate,
you know, John's original vocal performance on
that song. You know, that song is also very dear
to me because, you know, Bobby Sheehan wrote
it. And I remember the night and I also performed
that song at Bobby's funeral. because John was
too, wasn't able, he was too broken up to sing.
And so at Bobby Sheen's funeral at St. Anne's
Church in Brooklyn, John and Chan and I performed
the song and I sang it, you know? So that song
has a deep significance for me personally. And
I also remember the night on a High Plains Drifter
tour, we were in Boulder and we played the Fox
Theater in Boulder and Bobby came to my room.
after the gig and he had he had written the lyric
for Mountains Win Again and he wanted to show
it to me to get my opinion because he he wasn't
a songwriter in the band. He didn't write the
lyrics. You know, he participated in writing
the music, but he up until then wasn't lyricist
in the band. And he was very self -conscious
about. presenting the song you know and he read
at that point there was no music to it but he
had written the lyric i can remember like looking
at the piece of paper with his handwriting on
it and i read the lyric and he you know i told
him that yes this is a very good lyric you know
it was deeply personal and also very poetic you
know i pick up my smile and put it in my pocket
hold it for a while and try not to have to drop
it. And the way, also the poetry of it is very
simple in the sense that it's not, you can tell
that he's not trying to be clever or have a clever
turn of a phrase. It's just naturally coming
out of him. So that was a very meaningful thing
for me to be asked to sing on that new recording
of that song. Awesome story. I have goosebumps
just hearing those lyrics. They mean so much
to me just as a fan. I can't even imagine. That
was such a wonderful story. It's all true too.
I didn't even make up any of it. Now I want to
jump ahead to 2011 where you were the producer,
recording engineer, mixing engineer, guitarist.
vocalist and primary songwriter for john popper
and the dusk ray troubadours album god i just
i get tired just hearing you say that as soon
as you hear the opening track on the album love
has made it so you immediately grasp that this
album is bringing together the sounds that you've
brought to your solo material throughout the
years and then adding in john's distinctive vocal
and harmonica delivery It's a perfect musical
marriage, if you ask me. Songs like Something
Sweet and Sham Pipple, Ooze with R &B and Americana,
and then you add in that Southern rock groove
of Don't Tread on Me. It's such a wonderful album.
Can you talk about how this project came together?
Because the songs feel so natural listening to
the album. It was almost as if these songs were
honed on the stage for years prior to the recording.
Yeah, which is not the case at all. Some of the
songs were actually written in the studio, you
know, when we were recording. And we recorded
that not in the studio that I'm in now, but in
my former studio here in New Mexico, which is
up this, I built a studio in this rambling old
funky Adobe house up in the hills north of Santa
Fe in a place called Chupadero, New Mexico. And
yeah, John approached me about. doing this side
project and part of his interest in doing it,
besides the fact that we had talked about doing
something like this for many years, was that
he was very interested in doing more collaborative
songwriting outside of the context of Blues Traveler.
and sure enough in subsequent blues traveler
albums like uh blow up the moon and stuff that
he brought in other writers and this i think
this doing the dust gray project was sort of
a launching pad for him in terms of getting into
that world because for many, many, many years
since the beginning of the band, he was sort
of saddled with being the primary songwriter.
So I think it was liberating for him to be able
to come to me and trust me enough to say, OK,
I've got these songs, I've got these ideas. And
we got together. We had two primary writing sessions,
one down in Austin, where he and I and Aaron
Beavers from the band Sherman, who is also in
the Dusk Retributor band, got together and start.
We each came with our bits and pieces, our scrap
bin, if you will, of song ideas, half -baked
ideas. I've got a verse idea. I've got a lyric.
I've got a song title. That's cool. We should
write this, you know, and started bouncing things
around for maybe three or four days. And then
we had a second writing session in New York where
John and I spent a few days together working
on tunes. And also Chris Barron from the Spin
Doctors joined us. And we wrote one afternoon
in John's hotel room where he was staying. And
we wrote Champiple that day, the three of us,
which is probably the most popular song from
that record, the most requested, at least, which
is, you know, it's a really fun song. And it's
about, you know, Fred Sanford's favorite beverage,
which was ginger ale and ripple champiple. And
so the songs came about like that. And then we
assembled the band. We decided who would be in
the band. Mark Clark from the High Plains Drifter
group, a bass player named Steve Lindsey, Aaron
Beavers, and then Kevin Trainor, who also plays
on the new record, Bootlegger Days, who was also
from our scene in New York. He was the front
man for a band called the Surreal McCoys, which
was an amazing, amazing band during the 80s and
early 90s in New York. And so it brought kind
of a lot of threads together. New people that
I was working with out here in New Mexico. John
had met Aaron Beavers down in Austin and Sherman
had his band. Sherman had toured with Blues Traveler.
So I didn't know Aaron. But John was like, you
know, you should get we should get this guy Aaron
to be in the band because he'll bring like the
Texas thing into the group. And, you know, so
we so he balanced the sort of the New Mexico,
New York, Texas thing. And that's how it happened.
It was very organic process. We recorded the
album in about two weeks and set everything up
in this studio that I had. And yeah, I love that
record and I loved working on it. And, you know,
you're right. It has a very kind of rootsy Americana
sound. And that's what we were going for. We
had decided that that was going to be the vibe
of the record and we succeeded. Yeah. I mean,
it's been a while since I've listened to it.
I should revisit it. Every time I happen to hear
one of the songs from that record, I really enjoy
it. But I haven't listened to it front to back
in a long time. Well, if you don't mind, I have
one small quip about. the dust gray troubadours
album. And this is going to be where my music
nerddom comes into full effect. So I apologize
in advance. Go ahead. I am a huge fan of frog
wings, croaking at toads album that John recorded
alongside of Kofi and Oteel Burbridge, butch
and Derek trucks, Jimmy Herring and Mark can
Jonas. Now for the dust gray troubadours album,
the band recorded a studio version of my favorite
frog wing song. hurdy -gurdy fandango but it
was only released as a bonus track on the itunes
edition of the album so i had to settle for buying
it in its lossy mp3 format and i've been forever
since praying for a deluxe version of this album
so i could finally get that version on lossless
or cd so i'm curious why that song was saved
for an itunes bonus track because you guys really
knocked it out of the park I like that track
too, a lot. I don't know why. At least I knew
at the time. I don't remember what the reasoning
was. I think the label wanted a certain number
of tunes and they wanted to hold back something
for a bonus track on the digital release. Don't
forget this is going back to 2011 where the transition
into the streaming world was just happening.
I think everyone was trying to navigate how to...
best take advantage of that and attract people
to the various versions of the album. So I think
some of that went into the thinking with the
people at the label. 429 was the name of the
label that put it out in terms of keeping a strong
song off the record and having it be available
just if you were going to buy the record on iTunes.
Because back then, people were actually paying
to download records. It wasn't all just streaming.
I think that's probably what the reasoning was,
although I don't know how directly involved I
was in that part of the process. You know, that
very often happens where the band and or the
producer, the creative producers of the record
aren't necessarily. directly involved with some
of the decisions that of those sorts that get
made after the fact so that's all i can tell
you but you're right it's a very strong uh it's
a very strong um and it's funny because my daughter
who when we recorded that album was only two
years old awesome now plays the hurdy -gurdy
she has one and she she's taught herself to play
it and so i i thought i all of a sudden went
you know it dawned on me about six months ago
i was like you know what we she knows john you
know and i said john and i once recorded a song
about a hurdy -gurdy player she's like no and
i played it because how come you never so she's
so she like you shares shares the uh dissatisfaction
at the fact that she had to wait so long to hear
that song amen amen Well, as I was getting ready
for tonight's episode, I realized something on
your site that I didn't know for the last 11
years. You were a songwriter for something on
Blues Traveler's 2012 album, Suzy Cracks the
Whip. And I have the two CD deluxe version that
Best Buy sold. Disc two doesn't come with any
liner notes. So I have no clue what song you
wrote. with the band that i'd love to learn more
about your involvement with that album it's washed
away with tears really song yeah and the the
single from that that's that um what's what was
the lead off track what's the name of it on on
the main disc oh you don't have to love me you
don't have to love me yeah aaron who was you
know also in the dust grade wrote that song And
so at that, when they were doing Susie Cracks
the Whip, again, John was, and I also had, I'm
involved in yet another song on that record.
But yeah, I had written, so John was like, yeah,
we're, you know, I'm open to co -writing and
or considering material from people in my circle
to be included on this record. Because like I
said, You Don't Have to Love Me was written,
you know, John had no hand in writing it. It
was written by Aaron Beavers. I had this song
that I had started writing called washed away
with tears. And it was a ballad. Like I could,
if I dug up the original demo of that, I've got
it somewhere working. It was a ballad. It was
the same melody. that's on thing and uh some
of the same lyrics because i hadn't finished
writing it you know i sent him this song idea
i had written the chorus and had a couple verse
ideas and i sent it to john i was like what do
you think about this and he wrote me back or
called me i can't remember what and said oh i
love that song if you mind if you don't mind
i'll run with it you know i was like dude go
ahead it's gonna be it's gonna be on a blues
traveler record you can you know do what you
like you know and uh so i wound up with the co
-write and the the when i finally heard Blues
Traveler. I don't know if I even heard Blues
Traveler's version until the album came out.
I think I might even have to go to Best Buy to
get it. But yeah, you can find it. It's on YouTube
and stuff. You can hear the version. And I'll
be sure to embed it on the episode page over
at myweeklymixtape .com for anyone who's listening
and want to go directly to the song. And the
other thing that I did was I recorded Crystal
Bowersox's vocal for I don't want to go. Is that
the name of the song that she sings on? Yes.
I don't want to go. Anyway, which I think John
co -wrote with Carrie Rodriguez. And it's funny
because Crystal, I've done a lot of work with
her, both as a co -writer and produced some of
her music. And John called Crystal and said,
hey, we're working on this album. And we want
you to sing this duet with me because we think
your voice would be perfect for this. And can
you get into a studio sometime soon? And at that
time, she was living in Portland, Oregon. And
at that moment, she was in her car on her way
to New Mexico to work with me in my studio. So
she said, yeah, I think I can find a studio with
someone who you know. So they sent me the track
and I cut Crystal's vocal. on that so i'm i've
got my hand in that record in a couple of spots
very cool very awesome i love her vocal track
on that album by the way it's such a wonderful
duet between the two their voices marry perfectly
together she is an awesome singer on my current
uh solo album which came out in march it's called
stars enough to guide me we have a duet crystal
and i it's called before we get stupid is an
is the name of the song and it's like you know
it's kind of just a dumbass good time rock and
roll song about you know what happens sometimes
between consenting adults yeah dumbass i think
it's one of the best songs on the album i love
it i don't mean dumbass as a negative thing you
know yes that I don't mean to say that dumbasses,
you know, some of the greatest songs ever written
are pretty stupid, you know, so it's like stupid.
I mean, you know, it's not trying to say anything
deep and poignant. It's not social commentary
or anything. It's just about having fun and partying
in the human condition, you know, so. There you
go. Stars Enough to Guide Me, like you said,
came out in March. It's an amazing listen. And
three songs into the album, there's a duet with
some guy, John Popper, who we've talked about
in this hour called New Kind of Blue, which is
a refreshing folk Americana jam song. Where does
this song sit in the timeline for recording bootlegger
days? Was this something that helped lead to
this duo album? Or was this a song that maybe
was recorded for that album, but then you moved
it to stars enough to guide me kind of what's
the story behind this? It wasn't so much recorded
for that album, but it was recorded during the
same sessions as bootlegger days. You are right.
Your detective work is paying off. It's very
sonically similar. Yeah. And it's the same band.
Same band that's on Bootlegger Days. But this
one, unlike the songs on Bootlegger Days, which
are all sung by John. And as a matter of fact,
at the beginning, the idea when we made Bootlegger
Days was that it was going to be a John Popper
album that I was co -writing and producing. But
then because of my extensive involvement in this
particular record, it was John who kind of stepped
up and said, you know, this should be your name
should be on the cover, too. you know and uh
to which i did not object and you know i'll take
half the blame for this one but that song as
you point out is a duet between the two of us
and and i sing plenty on bootlegger days but
my role there is more as a backing and harmony
vocal i don't sing any lead vocals on the album
because initially it was supposed to just be
a john popper solo project and because of the
fact that my involvement in the project is so
multi -pronged that we decided mutually, at John's
suggestion, to put my name on the cover. With
you. John, Mark, and Kevin together. Was there
ever a sense that this could be the follow -up
or sequel to Dusk Ray Troubadours, or was this
a different mindset altogether? Well, it's not
a different mindset altogether. I mean, we're
writing songs and figuring out how to arrange
and record them, which is our usual mindset,
but thematically and... energetically we wanted
this record to be more sort of steeped in blues
and r &b as opposed to americana you know and
we didn't want to write like a straight blues
album where every song was like a 12 bar blues
although there is there is a little bit of that
on the record there's a song called uh same old
blues which is just like a straight sort of texas
shuffle and then there's a another tune called
new cocaine blues which is pretty much a blues
tune and uh it's funny because We decided to
call the song New Cocaine Blues because there
is a song called Cocaine Blues. The cocaine running
around my brain. But John was like, wow, people
are going to think, wow, there's a new cocaine?
It's like new coke. Yeah, exactly. There's a
new coke. All of the pitfalls with a brand new
flavor. You'll still lose your house anyway.
So we wanted it to be musically a little bit
more on the blues and R &B side of the spectrum,
which it is. And also in bootlegger days, it's
not really a concept album per se, but as we
were starting to write the songs, we started
to see like some, you know, all sort of unbeknownst
to us, there were some underlying themes or like,
you know, storylines that were sort of coming
out during the... writing of some of the songs
and so as we started to see some of the connections
between the songs we then as we were working
on subsequent material for the album made a conscious
effort to include so if you listen carefully
to the album you can hear uh it's a bonus for
people who pay close attention there are cross
references in quite a number of the songs um
there's sort of a character that is introduced
in the first song of the album who's sort of
this hard luck character. The first song of the
album is about this hard luck character who has
gotten in too deep with these bookies that he
now owes 10 grand to. And this is back in the
prohibition days with $10 ,000, a lot of money.
And it's about how he has to like escape them.
And it's like almost the first song I wrote it.
And it's kind of like a gangster movie in four
minutes. You're talking about before the heat
rolls in, correct? That's correct. Yeah. And
so this character who appears in Before the Heat
Rolls In is actually the protagonist to some
extent in some of the other tunes. And some of
the references in that first song come up in
small ways in other places in the album. And
I don't want to give too much of it away because
that would spoil all the fun. But we had fun
with that. And then there are a handful of tunes
that are unrelated to that storyline that we
just thought were good songs. So we put them
in. But there is sort of a theme of hard luck
and perhaps redemption. Maybe not. You know,
that runs throughout. I love that Texas blues
swagger of the three songs you mentioned. New
Cocaine Blues, The Same Old Blues, and Before
the Heat Rolls In. Now, the next song I want
to highlight is a country stomper, which is the
second track on the album following up before
the heat rolls in. And that's who's taking care
of the road, which features beautiful harmony
vocals from Mirny Fowler. To me, this is a very
interesting choice of track to follow up before
the heat rolls in because it kind of sets the
tone for the album, which I feel is this cornucopia
of musical influences coming together in. Apologies
for the bad pun, but perfect harmony, so to speak.
When you guys were working on these songs, was
that always the intention or were you guys just
saying, here's something I came up with, let's
write it and see where it goes? It was more the
latter, but we wrote more songs than wound up
being on the album. And we actually recorded
more songs than wound up being on the album.
We have some outtakes that are completely mixed
at some time before too long. We'll definitely
see the light of day. Nice. in one form or another.
But that's actually one of my very favorite tracks
on the album, because that was one that like
John had sent me. We wrote the album. First off,
we wrote the album in we started writing it in
December of 2020. like at the height of the pandemic
lockdown. So we did the initial writing long
distance, you know? So I said to John, just go
through your, because John, like when he has
ideas, he writes them in his notes on his iPhone
or whatever. And I said, go through your scrap
bin and just send me anything you want, you know,
anything you've got. And who's taking care of
the road when I'm gone was just a line that he
sent me. That was the only thing. And then I
started working on the tune. And to me, it sounded
like the song is reminiscent of somebody robbed
the Danville train or one of those kind of tunes.
It's got a classic form where it's like the first
line repeats several times and then there's a
payoff line, like a classic sort of country blues
tune. It reminds me of something Chris LeDoux
would have done in the 70s and 80s. yeah that's
certainly also a valid reference it's that kind
of stuff and it also to an extent could relate
to this same character you know because he's
in the first song he's trying to split town you
know so who's taking care and the whole idea
of like it's sort of a play on words like who's
taking care of the road when i'm gone so like
who's taking care of the road that I'm traveling
on or who's taking care of the road that I'm
leaving behind, you know, when I go, you know,
again, I don't want to give away too much about
the song. Y 'all can listen for yourselves right
now. And Mirny is a great singer, Mirny Fowler.
She's a great, great singer who lives here in
Santa Fe. She's a local musician here who I call
into the studio quite often when I need female.
background vocals on stuff, harmony vocals. And
she's a great lead singer in her own right. But
she's one of those great studio singer in the
sense that she knows how to like really lock
in with the lead singer and sing in not just
perfect harmony, but also sort of assume that
person's personality and really lock in. So she
sings with the exception of one line at the very
end of the song. She sings every note of the
song along with John. Right. And it really adds
just also having a female vocal on this. That's
the only female voice on the album, you know,
and to have her. along with him on that lyric
adds a whole nother layer to it to me. And I
thought that that would be really cool. Because
first I think, well, maybe I'll harmonize with
John on this one. But like, no, it should be
a woman. It should be a female vocal because
that adds, again, I don't want to give away too
much, but there's some things in the lyric that
may give it more significance if it's sung by
a man and a woman together. The next song I want
to highlight from the album is what I consider
a jazz R &B fusion with Old School Country. And
that is You're Crazy. John, who's known to hit
some high stratospheric upper register notes
vocally, goes to the complete other side of the
spectrum here, delivering some really deep and
ethereal vocal runs, showing off a side of his
voice that I don't think people normally associate
with him. So to me, this song really stuck out
from the whole album. really exudes this modern
Americana feel, but simultaneously takes you
back to a completely different era of music.
Was that the intention you were looking for in
this song? Yes, absolutely. John's vocal performance
on that song is also one of my favorites. And
he was sort of channeling, if you listen to like
early R &B, like, you know, precursors of like
the pop r &b tunes like by groups like the ink
spots or people like that the way those guys
used to sing going up i can't even do it but
these high runs that they would do you know it's
kind of where john was going with his with his
vocal performance on that tune the song itself
the whole vibe of it with the sort of like this
it's got a sounds like to me i wanted the production
of that song to sound like it's after hours in
a speakeasy. The place is closed. I guess it's
always after hours in a speakeasy. But the place
is closed. It's full of like blue with cigarette
smoke. The piano player is sitting there. Jason
played some amazing piano on that too. His piano
playing on that tune is great. You know, and
the way the band, if you ever saw the film To
Have and Have Not with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren
Bacall in the... There are several scenes where
Hoagy Carmichael and his band play in that film.
And Lauren Bacall sings with them the song How
Little We Know, which was written by Hoagy Carmichael.
And I kind of that's obviously predates the early
50s era that I was talking about. This goes back
to like, you know, this is the early days. That
movie takes place in the late 1930s, the very
beginning of World War Two. But that vibe of
the how the band, if you ever watch that film,
how the band in that film interacts. And again,
they're playing in like this smoky bar in the
lobby of this funky hotel in Martinique, you
know, and that was kind of what I was going for.
That feeling of just sort of like the old timey
and the musicians are sort of feeling each other
and interacting in that sort of. organic way.
And I think we got it. And the song itself sounds
like a breakup song between a guy and his partner.
But if you listen to the lyric carefully, it's
actually a breakup song between the singer and
a certain former president of the United States.
Hopefully not soon to be. the next president
of the united states but if you listen to the
lyric with that in mind that's what the song
was initially written about but it can be taken
completely at face value but if you should listen
to it again and think about you know i don't
want to bring politics into the discussion but
uh but but i did but um if you listen to it with
that in mind you'll see what i mean well the
next song up you also released a video visualizer
for, which is Cabin Fever. And this one, I want
to focus on something that you're doing in the
track because John's vocals are layered against
a banjo that you're playing throughout the song.
And I feel like it really adds a signature sound
and tension to this track. And it makes it a
standout for me. What gave you the idea to kind
of follow the vocal melody with the banjo? Or
was that the other way around? Yeah, you know,
I think that they're sort of interconnected.
You know, it's one of those songs. I wanted it
to have that, you know, and again, in the first
song in before the heat rolls in the line, the
song goes twelve hundred miles to Baton Rouge.
I know a cabin up in the woods. We make it there.
We're gone for good. Right. And then at the end
of the song. Before the heat rolls in, there's
blood on the money, blood on the ground. It could
be yours or maybe mine. Run out of luck, run
out of time. So at the end of the song, before
the heat rolls in, our hero and his gun mall
sidekick are in deep trouble. And we don't know
who's been shot or what's happened. But then
several songs later in the album, this guy, the
singer of the song, is alone in a cabin. Right
now, it could be the same cabin that the guy
in the first song is talking about. Maybe yes,
maybe no. And he talks about, you know, cabin
fever setting and he's hallucinating, you know,
and I can see you through the window, but I cannot
touch your skin. Is it a ghost who stands before
me or cabin fever setting in? So maybe just maybe
it's the same guy from the first song who did
make it there, but maybe she didn't, you know,
so. I don't know. Could be. And so I wanted the
song to have that sort of high and lonesome feeling,
like almost like, you know, well, in the first
song, he's trying to make it to Louisiana somewhere
in the remote swamps or up in the woods of Louisiana
to this cabin to hide out. So I wanted the song
to have sort of a high, lonesome feel to it.
So I decided to play and banjo is not my instrument.
So, you know, it's it's a very simple banjo part,
but it fits. the song. And so the idea of that
kind of melody, that kind of song, very often,
like those Appalachian folk songs, the vocal
melody, like a fiddle or a banjo will be mirroring
the vocal melody. Yes. And the two sort of dance
together. So that's what I was going for, you
know, and whether it was one leading the other,
I don't know. They just sort of go together.
Love it. Well, the last track I want to discuss
is my current favorite song on the album. The
infectious head bobbing jam rocker cover my hands.
This song has a blistering harmonica solo, a
tasty guitar solo. And musically, it brings me
full circle to the almost home in four albums.
You and I were talking about earlier in the night.
If you guys were touring this album to me, this
is the. show opening track and speaking of touring
you have some shows coming up this fall with
blues traveler yes are there any plans to break
out some of these songs during those shows yes
i think the plan as of now i can't confirm 100
is that i'll be doing my opening set and then
during blues traveler set i will join the band
and we will perform one of the songs from bootlegger
days that's part of the plan and i agree with
you that cover my hands as a matter of fact at
one point that was going to be the album opener
and i know what you're saying it's like the kickoff
the show kind of song because of the way the
introduction happens it's got that guitar intro
you know and it's uh it's kind of draws you in
And you're right. It groove wise, it's the one
that connects most with sort of like the earlier
blues traveler and the roots rock kind of sounds
that we used to all do. It's definitely the most
connected to that. And that was also kind of
conscious. And again, if you listen to the lyric
of that song, in my mind, the guy who's singing
that song is like. is now like lost and it's
like he's speaking to somebody right because
he keeps saying boys he's like talking to these
guys who he's with like you know so pass me down
the bottle instead you know i can't drink her
out of my head boys i can't drink her out of
my head right he's talking about this woman that
he was unable to to she loved him but he couldn't
love her back and he's now he's he's lost and
maybe he's like maybe the guys he's like he's
in some mining camp somewhere you know and he's
made his way up to Alaska or someplace where
he's hiding out with these guys and it's at night
and they're all drinking and telling their tales
of woe to one. I don't know. Maybe that's what
it is. But I agree with you that groove wise,
it's pretty funky. And in that kind of sort of
like it's not super fast, but it's super swampy.
you know, in that way. And yeah, and John's solo
on that is pretty incredible. He's a pretty good
harmonica player, you know? Yeah, I've been figuring
that out over the years. Yeah. Now, Jono, for
my last question, first off, I've been having
such a great time talking with you tonight, but
if you had to choose three songs that you've
recorded across your entire career that you feel
best defines your musical legacy, what three
songs would you pick and why? Oh, God. Save the
best for last. That's an awful question to ask
somebody. Which three of my 700 children do I
like the best? I know it's a tough one. Well,
is that songs of my own or songs by? that i've
recorded for other artists or i was mainly speaking
songs from your catalog but if there's a song
you wrote that somebody else recorded and you
want to include that by i mean there's no rules
here yeah well let's say Well, going back to
like my very early days, like the very first
song that I recorded in like a bonafide studio
where I was the singer on the song was with the
Worms back in like 1980. And that was a song
called One Night Only. And it was the first time
that I was like the lead singer. And we released
that only on cassette. that was like, you know,
a pretty important recording for me. Cause it
was like the first, I mean, I'd got, I'd made
recordings with kid bands that I was in and stuff,
but this is like the first time we went into
like a real studio, you know, and this is whatever
43 years ago. And we did that. And I was 18 or
19 years old when we recorded that. So that was
pretty important to me. It's not necessarily
the greatest recording that I've ever made, but
it was big milestone for me. And then. moving
forward um let me think about it for a minute
well let's see this is a really difficult question
brian um you know because there's so many songs
that like have significance for me of course
for different reasons you know because of what
they mean to me in terms of marking my life at
that time just like Just like listeners do, you
know, listeners listen to a song that brings
them back. Oh, the first time I heard Honky Tonk
Women that summer that that that record came
out, I was, you know, on the dock at summer vacation
and heard that song. And wow, you know, I remember
that the smell of the salt air at that time,
whatever, you know. But let's see. I'm trying
to think of stuff that's more recent, more recent
than 45 years ago. But I mean, certainly some
of the tracks on. almost home, like the first
one's free was also first one's free in a way
does connect with cover my hands, you know, because
of the way the groove goes, you know, if they're
also both in, in, in the key of E and have a
very kind of similar swampy groove, they're not
the same tune by any means, but, but I'd say
that one was also a big one for me just because,
and that, that is the lead off track on that
album. And then more recently, The lead off track
on my most recent album, Lights Go Out, is the
name of the song. Currently means a lot to me,
although I really like a lot of the songs on
my newest album, Stars Enough to Guide Me. And
the title of the album comes from that song,
Lights Go Out. And basically the song uses a
boxing metaphor. And I wrote that song. I was
having a particularly difficult. couple of days
for reasons that i won't go into just you know
life shit happening and i said to myself out
loud i just said i'm broken this you know everyone's
wise i just i give up you know i am broken and
then the first line of the chorus goes i am broken
i am reeling i am knocked down for the count
i am staring at the ceiling but i won't let the
lights go out in other words like even at that
last moment you know and the first lines of the
song say you know Always want to come out swinging.
Never saw the use in holding back. Even when
the final bell was ringing, I came on like a
heart attack. And that's kind of the story of
my life in a lot of ways. You know, I've had
a lot of successes, but I've also like been musically
and professionally been in the trenches for a
long time. I'm still, you know, I'm very lucky
to collaborate with the people I do and to have
the what notoriety I have. But I'm still just
I'm a working musician. You know, I've always
been and probably always will be. And I don't
mind that, you know, but to my story, there's
an element of continued like triumph over adversity
and not just me. Most the vast majority of working
musicians can relate to this. And even guys who
are famous, you know, I mean, look, we were talking
about John before we came on and how he's like
had at the end of the last tour, struggling with
problems with his voice. And so there's always
something that you have to overcome. And so in
this business, no matter what level you're at.
And so that song resonates with me at this point
in my life. And the idea for that song, I heard
an interview on the radio. I can't remember who
the guy was, but I was driving in the car was
an NPR with some boxer who had held a title like
a light or middleweight title, but also held
a record for being the title holder who had been
knocked down in the ring the most times. But
his thing was like, well, as long as you get
up one more time than you've been knocked down,
you still stand a chance of winning. You know,
and that really stuck with me. It's like doesn't
matter in life or in your professional career
or whatever. You get knocked down. And that's
the bridge of that song says, you know, knocked
down two times, stood up three. Ain't nobody
get the better of me. Knocked down nine. But
I stood up 10 and I'm ready to go all over again.
So it's like, doesn't matter if you've been knocked
down nine times, as long as you stand up 10 times,
you're in their game. And so that's life, not
just for me, but for all of us in a nutshell,
you know, it doesn't matter if you get battered
around, as long as you get back on your feet,
you got a chance. Absolutely inspiring. Jono
Manson, this has truly been a pleasure. Thank
you so much for joining me tonight on My Weekly
Mixtape. Thanks for having me, man. It's fun
to talk to you and your questions were excellent
and insightful. So I really appreciate it. Thank
you, sir. And remember, you can head to myweeklymixtape
.com to hear all the songs we've talked about
tonight via the playlist embedded on the episode
page, along with checking out the full catalog
of My Weekly Mixtape episodes. And if you like
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forward slash myweeklymixtape. That's all for
this week. Thanks again for listening. And until
next time. enjoy the tunes.