Hey, this is Tad Kinchler from Blues Traveler.
You're listening to my weekly mixtape with Brian
Colburn. Catch the show. It's amazing. I just
had an unbelievable time. And Brian is probably
the best interview I've ever had in my life.
Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that
takes the classic mixtape approach to building
a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn.
When I started podcasting in 2018, one of my
goals was to talk to the musicians who have made
the music that is the soundtrack to my life.
And over the years, I've slowly but surely made
that goal a reality. And tonight, I get to check
off a bucket list band that, for anyone who knows
me personally, knows this group is part of my
personal Mount Rushmore of music. So without
further ado, I am honored to welcome Tad Kinchela,
bassist for Blues Traveler, to my weekly mixtape.
Tad, thank you so much for joining me tonight,
man. Absolutely. It's a pleasure. It's good to
hear your voice again. Obviously, we've crossed
paths in the past, but... Maybe not in a talking
environment. Yeah, we did the show back in 2009
at the Bergen Pack in Englewood, New Jersey.
It was an absolute blast, one of my highlights
of my musical career, and now this is one of
the highlights of my podcasting one. All right,
well, happy to be part of both. Well, I'd like
to start by asking the same question I ask all
of my first -time guests, and that is, what does
the word mixtape mean to you? Well, I feel like
I was born in an era where that was actually
a thing. you know back in the day when technology
wasn't quite as readily available you would you
know kind of have to curate your own you know
based all of us listen to music growing up all
my friends and based on what you're listening
to and your favorite songs and things that kind
of were important to you or things that you might
want to share with someone else you would have
to literally go And it usually involved two cassette
players, one playing and then the other had a
record feature. And you would actually, in real
time, mix a tape together of songs that, you
know, depending on how you wanted to convey the
tape, what it was for, because there's obviously
various levels of mixed tapes. You would kind
of, you know, record individual songs onto a
tape and then you would actually write in on
the label on the cassette. If you got fancy,
you'd have a Sharpie and you'd like do some doodling
and then give it to someone. And when I envision
mixtapes, that's kind of where I go with that,
you know, standard audio cassette tapes. Awesome.
Well, I'd like to start actually in the middle
of Blues Traveler's story because you joined
the band in 1999 after the sad passing of Bobby
Sheehan. And being that Chan Kinchler, the band's
lead guitarist, is your brother. Was there any
trepidation or pause within the rest of the group
when you joined? That's a good question. You
know, my way, you know, it was just to give a
little backstory to that. It was kind of an interesting
time. I shouldn't say interesting. It was kind
of an emotional time for everyone because I was
good friends with Bobby. And obviously the band
started and formed with Bobby and, you know,
plowed forward and had their successes with Bob
with four and all that. And then they tried out
five bass players and I was one of them. I happened
to still be playing. I kind of went a circuitous
route. I went to Brown and played lacrosse and
got hooked back into music because I had always
played music. And then I was in a three piece
that actually went and moved to New York after
graduating and started playing. And so my chops
were like, you know, still there because I was
playing at the time. And so I was one of the
five guys they asked to try out. And it was weird
because my tryout was the first gig in New York
after Bobby's passing. So it was kind of a cathartic
reunion of people right after Bobby had passed.
So it was the first time everyone had the chance
to kind of air things out. So it was, you know,
it was kind of, and it was a tough gig to play,
I should say, but went over well. The guys, I
think they waited two weeks to tell me, which
was really classy. I think Jan told them. He
was like, let them sweat it out. And then Dave,
for sure, the manager, another Princeton High
School graduate, called me up. Not even Jan.
It was like they had their manager call me. And
I got the gig. And I have to say, having known
the guys for a long time. you know, I was already
friends with them. So I, I, you know, we're all
real sarcastic bastards and, and, you know, we,
we all get along really well and have the same
sense of humor and, but I never really sensed
anything, but, you know, acceptance into the,
the band and really the fans as well, just made
it that transition. Cause it's a major transition.
I don't play like Bobby, you know, and, and it's,
you know, kind of, we moved in a different direction
because I, I told them straight up, like, if
you want to get. Bobby, hire a studio guy that
can cop Bobby, because I don't play like Bobby.
We're just different players. And with that being
said, the band decided and kind of gelled together
and said, let's move on. And the first thing
we did was write an album. So initially, I jump
in and I throw these tunes I have, and right
away, I'm in the fold. And I never sensed any
kind of resentment. I'm sure there were tough
times. As far as personally, you know, just moving
on, playing with a different player and things
that, you know, unsaid things that bands get
to have. So it was nothing but, you know, acceptance
from the guys. And I never felt it. If it was
there, I never felt it, you know. Well, the album
that you're talking about, the first album that
you and keyboardist Ben Wilson was on board for
was 2001's Bridge. And that album is filled with
classic tracks like Back in the Day, Just for
Me, All Hands, Sadly a Fiction, all songs that
have been in the band's live rotation since the
album's release. I've always considered the Bridge
album to be the beginning of the quote -unquote
2 .0 era of the band because you and Ben... in
the mix gave this band new avenues to explore
musically. And I think this album really capitalizes
on that. Now, you personally wrote two songs
for the album, the lead single Girl Inside My
Head and the live staple You Reach Me. Can you
talk about your first writing contributions for
the band and how you approached writing music
with Blues Traveler in mind? Yeah. Well, both
of those were ideas I had been kicking around,
one of which was in a different songwriter friend
of mine. We had just started Girl, and I had
gotten the lyrics down and kind of the melodies
and stuff. So it was one of those things where
I didn't know what my contribution was going
to be when we went down to write. I didn't know
any process that Blues Traveler had. I'd seen
him in a studio, but not a writing process. And
sure enough, we just get up and the first day
and make kind of a schedule. And it's like a
round robin where each day the next person contributes
something. And we do about three or four cycles
where each guy contributes, you know, three or
four songs. And then we go over the songs we
like best and then do like a rough of those and
then have producers listen to them, not knowing
anything about who wrote whatever. And then we
get like the 12 best out of them. So that was
I was like super psyched because they're like,
hey, tomorrow's your day. And I was like, what?
So I went home and kind of, you know, got the
acoustic guitar and kind of made a little form
out of girl inside my head and brought it in.
And John was like, oh, this is great. Let's do
this. And then, of course, he takes the lyrics
and adds about twice as many and then and like
kind of rewrites the thing. But that's just kind
of the process. You know, he's the singer. He's
entitled to his own interpretation of any of
that. And it's always kind of been that way.
But it was I was really struck by how democratic
the process was, how it's like, you know, we're
all for one, one for all. We each get a turn.
And and then, you know, reach me was a little
riff. I had just been I'd I had played, I guess,
a band in college. I think we made a song out
of it or something, but it was just a warm up
thing that I had always done. And I did it for
John. And he's like, oh, wait, keep doing that.
You know, and we kind of kept it was kind of
old bluegrass style where everyone. I just kept
playing the thing and then everyone kind of picked
up some parts and then I just shifted and kind
of changed some chords. We all kind of shifted
and it was a really organic, cool process. I
mean, I was just super stoked to be contributing,
but then to be actually like within the first
three days being, you know, kind of honing in
and doing writing and that experience with the
guys was really, really impressive. Not only
in that it was, you know, so organic, but how
kind of shared a process it was. It was really
a cool experience. Well, also in 2001 was one
of the most transcendent concert experiences
of my life. December 16th, just a few months
post 9 -11, the band took the stage at the Roseland
Ballroom along with Michael Franti and Spearhead
and led a four -hour celebration of all things
New York, including... John's spine -tingling
rendition of The Star -Spangled Banner, which
could be heard on your live album, What You and
I Have Been Through, as well as bringing first
responders up on stage for a rendition of The
Path along with Radioactive from Spearhead. That
show will forever be one of my favorite concert
moments, and I'd like to know what it was like
for the band to step up on stage a few months
post -9 -11 in the heart of New York City and
try to bring some levity to the hardest moment.
in that city's history yeah hey that's a good
good recollection i'm glad that you were part
of that yeah that was that was a pretty i think
we didn't really like realize i we had been on
tour i that we're in new mexico when when 9 11
happened and then we made our way back and i
remember we're all i was all sitting we were
all sitting up front in the bus because we'd
all lived in new york for years and i was still
living in brooklyn over in williamsburg And,
you know, just to see the skyline was just so,
you know, kind of profoundly humbling to come
up and just realize what happened firsthand.
And so we were all, you know, everyone is emotional
who lived in New York, who had friends. You know,
it was just such a kind of weird time. But to
be able to have a gig on the books there, especially
with Franti, it was such a great tour with them.
But to get up in Roseland and be surrounded by
Jersey and Connecticut and New York people was
really special. You know, it definitely, it was
something we really enjoyed doing. I think it
was a couple days later where we looked back
and I was like, wow, that was kind of like, you
know, an interesting, kind of a deep thing to
happen, you know, that we happened to have a
gig there and, you know, in that time. So it
was, you know, a great. place to be, especially
Roseland with such deep roots with the band.
It was kind of like coming home. Well, being
I mentioned that song, The Path, that song was
initially part of a concept album that the band
recorded called Decisions of the Sky, that in
2000, week by week, the band released as a, I'm
going to sound really old school here, but as
a free MP3 on the band's webpage. There were
talks at one point of there being an official
CD release of this album with a fifth unreleased
song, but it never came to fruition. And on the
band's 25 compilation, three of those songs,
12 Swords, The Sun in the Storm, and Traveler's
Suite, made the track listing, but the path was
omitted. The liner notes acknowledged it, but
I've always wondered why the path wasn't included.
And in this age of digital releases, more importantly,
Will the world ever see Decisions of the Sky
released as it was originally intended? Oh, you
know, that's a good question on why that was
never released. It was kind of above my pay grade.
You know, it was a concept album. John had been
kicking around and we actually, you know, we
went in and recording that was probably one of
the hardest things I did with the band as far
as like kicking back to my... old sight reading
and and you know kind of band times when you
know or orchestra as far as having like music
i had you know deep notes because the songs were
like 12 15 minutes with like a change you know
it wasn't a standard format it was just like
a section another section another section another
section so without writing down and noting it
because we don't we don't work that way no one
writes you know sheet music and say hey play
this you know it's rock bands don't really do
that so but there were a lot of parts and so
there was just like squirrely little notes about
how to you know that i recognize and how oh this
is coming up or that you know like open e open
g you know just little like flags that you know
kind of cued me on where things are going but
we sat down and cranked that out in like two
days um wow and it was a lot of music i mean
we had worked on parts but we we just kind of
nailed it getting in there like once it starts
we kind of you know if there weren't really many
fixes but yeah i digress sorry as far as why
that didn't get released i don't i do not know
specifically it might be a john question where
he didn't want to do it partially it wanted to
be one thing and if it couldn't be one thing
he just didn't he didn't want to do it all together
so i don't have a legitimate answer for you but
That's about all I can offer. Well, another thing
that happened that night in New York City was
the band played a version of Runaround in a minor
key. And this version was entitled Fucked Run.
And it was played live for several years and
then kind of just fell off the live map. And
I assumed in 2007 when the band released Cover
Yourself that I was finally going to get a studio
version of this amazingly dark and melodic take
on one of the band's biggest hits. But alas,
the band took the song in a different direction
from now both versions of Runaround. So my question
is, is there a studio version of Fucked Run out
there? And if so, will it ever see the light
of day? Yeah. Yeah, that's a fun one to play.
In fact, we tried to revisit it a couple times.
And we actually have randomly, like one, we will
come in and John will be like, hey, let's just
make that transition like Fucked Run and then
go to, you know, something else in G, you know,
play Prof or something. And I'm just trying to
think the last time we probably within the last
year or two, we've, we've hit it, but we've never
recorded it. Wow. Yeah. It's never been recorded
by us. Maybe next time we get in the studio,
we should just lay something down. So we have
it, but it's kind of like run is such an kind
of iconic pop song, you know, success. So it's
kind of like juicing, you know, a stone where
you're like, Hey, maybe they want to hear another
version that we just totally. changed the melody
and played in minor keys. You know, I think that's
the, the idea is like run has gotten a lot of
success for the band and it's maybe bad juju
to try to rerecord it for that purpose. You know?
Yeah. From another musician standpoint though,
hearing that being re -imagined in a dark light,
the minor key gives it that dark feel. And when
John holds the high note for the chorus, it just
kind of sends it into this different musical
place. And to me, it really, makes you focus
on the lyrics more than the pop version, which
you're kind of up and dancing and enjoying. And
I think that was the part of that song that was
so interesting to me. Yeah, no, no, you're, you're
absolutely right. I mean, in a way it's almost
too bad that we weren't able to throw different
lyrics to just the four chord, you know, minor
dirge because it's kind of cool. And John's melody
on it is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting,
you know, I don't know who came up with that.
I think it was already in place. Maybe by the
time I joined, they had like been tossing it
around as like kind of a, Hey, let's start at
normal and then go weird. Well, in 2003, the
band released what could very well be my favorite
blues traveler album, which depending on the
day it's neck and neck with travelers and thieves,
the incredible truth be told. And I'd love to
talk about this album for a couple of minutes,
if you don't mind. Sure. First song I'd like
to talk about is Can't See Why, because as a
bass player myself, I have to give love to my
favorite bass line on the album. That bass line
is absolute fire. Oh, thanks. When you're contributing
songs to the band, other examples from the album,
Let Her And Let Go, Partner In Crime, did you
write those songs with a specific bass line in
mind, or were you kind of writing the music and
chords first and then designing the bass line
after the song was kind of in the band's hands?
You know, Let Her and Let Go was more chordal,
but Partner in Crime and I Can't See Why, both
of those were written like riff style. Like I
wrote the riff and then showed Chan and I actually
paired back some of the bass parts to not be
playing the riff and have Chan carry it. So it
was all like old school, like, you know, kind
of Zeppelin, you know, where you got the riff
and then you built the song around it. Nice.
Yeah. Well. Letter and Let Go also has one of
my favorite lyrics of any blues traveler song
ever. And that line is, you never get the one
you dreamed of. You get to dream with the one
you get. According to the liner notes, both you
and John wrote the lyrics together for this one.
So I am just curious who came up with that line.
Oh, that's vintage John Popper. Yeah, that line,
the first time I heard it, I'll tell you right
now, my wife and I were driving through Disney
World. We were not engaged at the time. A few
weeks later, we would be. And that line came
on and I literally held my arm up to her and
said, holy shit, the hair on my arm stood up
from that lyric. Oh, wow. It's just one that
always resonated with me. Yeah, John, he's a
good songwriter. He writes good lyrics, man.
it'll surprise. Yeah. Sometimes I will play a
song. We'll even record it. We'll be playing
it live. Like, you know, the next year or two
years later. And I'll like choose that night
to like, listen to the lyrics fully. And I'll
be like, Oh shit. I didn't know he was saying
that, you know, cause you get, you know, I like
my, it's just like my wife and I, when she listens
to a song, she hears all the lyrics. So she sings
all these songs. And I'm like, how do you know
the lyrics? Cause when I'm listening to the songs,
I'm listening to totally different things. Like,
you know, the beats, bass parts a lot, like a
riff, like good, like melodic single line stuff.
And I'm totally like I could literally hear a
song and not know what the chorus was from the
lyrics. And so it's an interesting thing, you
know, the way, you know, songs are written like
that. Well, Thinnest of Air is another track
on that album that's maintained its spot in the
band's live sets over the years. And it's probably
one that my wife and I agree are one of the highlights
from this incredible album. With so many albums
to pull from in your discography and an obvious
bank of hit songs that really can no longer be
denied during your live shows. How does the band
decide on which songs make it past the quote
unquote album tour cycle into the quote unquote
this song's here for the long run mentality?
These are good questions, man. I didn't know
I'd have to think. It's an interesting process,
actually. I mean, you're, you're bang on in that
respect. Like we go through that process where,
I mean, we're, we're now we've played long enough
and together and recorded enough. We have good
sense about it, but some like when you're writing
the song in the beginning, first couple, two
or three albums, you didn't know what would stick.
You know, it's like throwing pasta against the
wall and just, you know, because sometimes if
it was too layered. a recording or produced us
the song was too produced and didn't have independently
strong parts you'd play it live and be like oh
wow that sucks you know like or like there were
real heavy harmonies that at the time we couldn't
hit you know because john's up in a different
register and you know ben and i couldn't like
try to get to them and then there's others that
aren't really prevalent on the album you know
they're just kind of but live just kick ass you
know it'll have a Just, you know, you play it
live and you're like, oh my God, that was really
fun. And people seem to like respond to it. So
we don't have the formula down and, you know,
kudos to anyone who does, but that is a process
that we go through. And I don't think at the
time, Finest of Air was, we were really thinking,
it happened so fast writing. It's not like we
sit, write the parts and then like experiment
with it on the road for a while. We're not really
that kind of band. We go in right and then. get
a producer and then record. So we're literally
still tweaking our part as we're recording. I've
definitely had it where like Bren or me or Ben,
I mean, Ben can overdub, but like the rhythm
section, you know, we'll go in and we'll have
a first takedown. And I'm like, oh, wait, wait,
let's do something. And I'll think, I'll listen
back to the first take and be like, I got to
change the part. So it's like more locked in.
So we're literally writing the parts. So Thinest
of Air, I think we were, you know, kind of, it
was a quick song and a lot of little intricacies.
we were still thinking about the song while we're
doing it. And it didn't really dawn on us that
that would actually end up being like a good
live song. And the formula for, you know, what
stays playable is really like how it performs
and the reaction from the crowd and also the
way we feel playing it. And there are several
songs that we've like, you know, indefinitely
thrown out as a live option, but most of them.
The first time you play it, you know whether
it's going to be an OK live one. And then if
you play it a whole cycle, a lot of times it's
new. We'll play it an entire tour. Then it'll
be in our bones and we'll be able to be like
reference it whenever we want. And if you can
like play it two years later and have the same
response, then that's kind of a keeper. Well,
one last song I want to talk about from Truth
Be Told, then I promise we'll move on. The powerful
ballad Sweet and Broken that was co -written
by John Popper and Chris Barron of the Spin Doctors.
A few episodes ago, Aaron Comis of the Spin Doctors
was a guest on the show, and we talked about
the early New York City days that included the
spinning traveler shows and such. But to this
day, the bands are still extremely close. Can
you talk about the relationships that the two
bands have continued to forge since you joined
in 1999? Yeah. Well, to give some reference,
Chris went to Princeton High School. So we're
all high school buddies. And when the band decided
to make the jump and go to New York. Chris actually
rolled into New York as well, and he was kind
of doing singer -songwriter stuff. But, you know,
we've all known each other from back in high
school. And, you know, that bond is, you know,
if you're a high school guy going to New York
and playing in the same scene, like, you're about
as close as you can get because you're going
to hold on to those friendships. And they clearly,
Spin Doctors, I mean, it was like lightning striking
twice in the same spot with Spin Doctors and
Blues Traveler coming from Princeton. Both getting
hits, you know, in the same, you know, two or
three year period. I mean, that's that was just
like no one expected that. And it was very lucky
and chance had to do with it and talent. But
Chris has been, you know, we've we've probably
haven't gone more than like two or three years
since 2000 without playing a gig with Chris or
the spin doctors. I mean, I think that we're
irrevocably tied together via the 90s and also
the fact that. If the name comes up, we're like,
yes, let's do a gig with them. Let's, you know,
let's try to make it happen. And we're still,
we just, I'm trying to think of the line. We
just played with him, you know, not all that
long ago. He came out in the, was it the fall?
Our last tour, our spring tour. He actually opened
a bunch of shows doing, playing guitar and singing
solo. And it was actually really cool because
he's gotten really good at guitar. And it was
really fun. I mean, there's something really.
cool about seeing john and chris on stage like
it brings back memories of when i saw them you
know when i was in like you know seventh grade
or whatever and they were at that you know the
church across from the high school playing Well,
while we're talking about co -writing, I want
to jump ahead to 2015's Blow Up the Moon, which
is a very unique album in the Blues Traveler
discography because every song on the album was
a collaboration, along with artists such as NSYNC's
J .C. Chassez, The Dirty Heads, Hanson, Plain
White Teas, and Bowling for Soup, just to name
a few. The title track, Blow Up the Moon, which
features both J .C. Chassez and 303, happens
to be my... kid's personal favorite blues traveler
song so i'm just pulling that one out as an example
but as a whole can you talk about how these collaborations
kind of came to fruition and maybe how those
sessions differed for you versus other albums
in the blues traveler catalog yeah that was that
was an interesting we had a management team that
was kind of they're out in vegas and they're
a little bit green and i mean if you look at
the list of like you know collaborations it's
like Someone took, you know, a wall full of band
names, you know, printed all over it and just
randomly threw darts. You know, there's there's
no like I mean, it's about as random. You couldn't
have bet on who we were going to do a collaboration
with and been right. You know, it was really
interesting. So our management at the time, I
think those were contacts they had made. So we
didn't know this at all, but they didn't have
a huge portfolio of people to call. So they just
called some people, I think. One of our manager's
assistant was somehow related to J .C. Chassez.
And, you know, the 303, I'm not sure. I think
there was a gig that one of their openers did
with them. But they just called up a bunch of
people and we took the yeses, you know. And we
found this out kind of after the fact, you know,
because we weren't putting in calls. And we just
kind of went with their concept, like it's going
to be random, but we feel like it's going to
be an interesting, you know, kind of collaboration.
And that writing process was really cool. We
traveled to each place and then we'd like rent
a studio and basically meet the people, sit down,
like have coffee and lunch maybe, and then start
like writing back, hey, any ideas? And it was
literally like whoever played the first thing,
we'd be like, okay, let's try that. And sometimes
it was us or John being like, here's an idea.
And he had some lyrics and they would do lyrics
first and then we'd fill in the music. And then
some others were like, here's a couple of chords
that I was thinking this could be really cool.
And then we'd get the chord structure down. And
then John and the other singer would like kind
of work on lyrics together. Well, while we're
on the subject of unique albums, I mentioned
this one earlier. Listeners of My Weekly Mixtape
will recall episode 36 because John O'Manson
was the guest on that show. And we talked about
his collaboration with the band on The Mountains
Win Again for the 2007 release Cover Yourself,
an album that. The band took their biggest hits
and re -recorded them with new arrangements.
Can you talk about the mindset behind taking
some of the band's most beloved songs and rearranging
them, and then how the fans reacted to hearing
these songs under a new lens? Yeah. We were in
Austin at the time, and Jim Eno produced that.
He's the drummer from Spoon and has a studio
in Austin. I think he still does. But anyway,
it was really a cool time. Our management, I
think here's the deal. It was like we had recorded
something and John was like, I'm not, I don't
have it in me to do a full writing session and,
and doing a whole album full of material. Like
right now I'm just, I'm like, you know, he was
just, they were taught, we were tired, we were
torn a lot. So the management came up with these
like, well, what about if we like just re -envisioned,
you know, your own stuff? And we were like, John
was like, sweet. Perfect. No lyrical work. And
so I think literally that was where that brainchild
came from. It was like, this is the least amount
of work I can do, but be creative at the same
time. So it turned into a really fun project.
But I think it was like that was kind of the
kernel of where that idea came from. And then
we would kind of just sit and throw out ideas
of what style to play the song in and then just
kind of reimagine it. I think most of the time
we stayed in the same key and didn't go major,
minor, like that run thing. But it was super
cool. Basically, you're writing a new song, but
just applying the old lyrics to it. So boiling
it down, that's about what we did. And it was
a really fun process. Fortunately and unfortunately,
those songs really didn't stick live. We did
them a couple times. It didn't resonate really.
I think there were some disappointed people when
we did it. So a lot of those, I don't think we
play any of those versions anymore live, but
it's a good point to bring up. Maybe coming up
this fall, we can maybe implement some of those.
Now, Blues Traveler has always been one of my
favorite live bands, and I don't think we can
discuss this band without a little bit of a focus
on the live shows. And at one point, When you
went to see blues traveler in the early two thousands,
there was never a guarantee that you'd hear run
around hook or, but anyway, in a set list, but
you could always expect something deeper like
business as usual from straight on till morning,
conquer me from save our soul or optimistic thought
mashed up with a sprinkling of Kenny Rogers,
the gambler. Yeah. And I remember a run in November
of 2002 where I caught the band several nights
in a row at Irving Plaza, New York city, where
the band did a no repeat run. And to me, that
really lends itself to the jam band community
mindset, something I've always felt that Blues
Traveler embraced in live shows. So how does
the decision come within the band to craft set
lists? And has that jam band mindset evolved
over the years in terms of what songs you guys
plan to play at a given show? Yeah, no, for sure.
I mean, the times have changed just like, you
know, the way music, you know. bands don't make
money selling albums anymore they make money
touring you know or you know you could be in
the middle of the outback in australia and have
five million views of a song you wrote in your
house like things have changed in the industry
you know let's say that so back in the day like
when i first joined we were doing those two sets
a night and there was a real hunger for that
and we were i think we were more positioned in
the jam band scene having come out of it and
kind of helped start it let's say with the horde
and all that and and like our friends and peers
were like you know dave matthews and fish and
mo and you know all these bands widespread so
we were i think more positioned with that then
and the two sets the people coming like i remember
where we were up in like upstate new york and
i remember like we started at 10 started but
we played like an hour and a half first set which
was the shorter one like a 30 minute break Second
set started at like 1215 and then played. It
was like 230 when we ended and like people were
still there. It didn't end. Like nowadays, if
we got out and played a two, four hours, it would
be like a quarter of the people still there.
And especially if it's past like 1030 at night,
because like most of the, you know, there's a
lot of parents and responsible people that come
see us. And they kind of, I have to say it's
shifted. We go in, clearly there are songs we
feel obligation to play because there are people
with that expectation. And we're very fortunate
to be still playing music. So obviously we're
going to cater to that kind of mindset. But as
of now, it's really shortened up. People want
to see one set and be out of there in time to
get a night's sleep. It's not quite the party
that it used to be. And we still have the jam
band mentality in that. Each of us takes a turn
writing a set on cycle since basically I joined
the band. It's been the same five, you know,
it's five of us in rotation. Actually, I can
swear, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's big cock,
tiny blowjob. And that's been it. It's hysterical
because we say it's almost like a business term
now. And we forget it's just such like ludicrous.
Like, what are you talking about? But that's
the order in which we've been going for the last
since I joined. So for 20 years and probably
before that, they were doing the same. And each
night, like there are requisite songs that we're
going to put in there if John's voice is up for
it. I mean, you know, the unfortunate thing is
John had such great he has great pipes, but his
early songs, he really went for it up high. So
a lot of those songs, he's like, oh, dude, I
cannot like there's no way I can hit that. So
we kind of have to retire some songs. Sometimes
we try switching keys, but we've retired songs
that are, you know, not, you know, he's not able
to hit with as much confidence as he wants. But
the jam band stuff, we still have a different
set with the kind of requisite songs, you know,
the framework. And then there's probably, I'd
say like three to four audibles at this point
where we're at. We're playing like 90 minutes
or so. 75 to 90. We were just out Big Ed Todd.
It was about 75 to 90. So there's three or four
songs that are audibles each night that will
shift up. And you tend to get comfortable sometimes
because it's a different venue. You're like,
hey, that worked last night. Let's do that again.
But in general, we try to keep cycling in old
songs and some surprises and maybe some weird
covers and do what we can. We're definitely not
in the jam band scene like where Phish is now.
They've kind of almost expanded upon their jamming
where we've kind of tightened up our show. And
it's not, you know, it's more of playing to the
audience. Our audience isn't the two set, leave
at two in the morning, you know, fan base anymore.
Well, talking about the band's biggest hits that
you say are, you know, staples of the show, Run
Around Hook, The Mountains Win Again, But Anyway,
Carolina Blues. Is there a song that the band
kind of universally considers to be the definitive
blues traveler hit? Because you can ask different
people and some people will say run around. Some
people will say hook. Some people will say the
mountains win again. So I'm curious what that
thought is in the band. I would personally, I
would say, but anyway, it's the most definitive
iconic blues traveler song. It was written a
long time ago in high school. It's kind of intelligent
lyrics. but still light and it's a two -chord
vamp and that's like what like the band used
to play like you know three hour sets at nightingales
and still with only you know not a whole lot
of songs to play and that like they would pick
songs where it was like two chord vamps and somehow
kept it interesting you know and that's like
a definitive characteristic of kind of the band
being able to play just very simple songs but
kind of make it interesting and Each player kind
of plays their instrument in that song, and it's
kind of an integral part. However, it's not like
a mind -blowing crazy. I mean, other than John,
maybe, just freaking out. But I think But Anyway,
to me, is like the kind of integral, the iconic
Blues Traveler song. Now, in a Blues Traveler
live show, the sets... do change in some ways
every night, as do the segues between the songs,
because the band kind of mashes songs together.
And as a musician, I've always wondered how the
musical conversation unfolds on stage between
the five of you to decide when the next change
is about to take place. Well, it's a musical
conversation. You know, we write our sets and
then we have a bunch of figures and symbols that
mean like. There's like a wave where we just
hold the note. There's a dot, dot, dot where
it's like a count in. And then there's the into,
which is like a greater than or, you know, greater
or less than symbol or whatever. Yes. And those
are completely open ended. So we don't really
discuss it. It's just like, oh, OK, we're jamming
in there. If there's a key change, we might say
like, oh, on Bren's cue. But that's about other
than that, it's just kind of. a conversation
with the music and we've just gotten kind of
good at, at being able to read each other. And
it's, you know, it changes. Some nights it's
horrendous, you know, we'll have two of us, we'll
be up in D and, you know, so I'll still be like,
Oh, we've gone, you know, like you'll look around
and get some weird looks. And, but then other
nights it's just like, we'll decide to break
it down and, and like, I'll stop playing or Ben
will stop playing. And then Chan and I will start
coming in and we'll rework a riff from the middle
of the song to the star. So it's a pretty cool
process. And it's one of the things I look forward
to the most kind of in each night is like where
we're going to end up when we go down that path.
Now, over the years, the band has incorporated
a ton of amazing covers into the set that almost
feel that there is much of the band's legacy
as the hits themselves. A few that come to mind
is the band's rendition of Charlie Daniels, The
Devil Went Down to Georgia, and in more recent
years, Sublime's What I Got and Radiohead's Creep.
How do you guys decide what songs are quote unquote
live show worthy? Usually I'd say most of all,
it's gotta be John's being comfortable singing
it and pulling it off. Like that's kind of the
main thing we try to stay, you know, that's it's
tough for any band, you know, you want to play
approachable songs that, you know, are inclusive
to the audience, but aren't like the give me's.
So. a cool song like something that isn't like
the single from the album maybe like the second
single or something but it's important that in
like some like supply it's you're reaching out
and saying hey you know this person might know
that song this is us doing it in our way and
i think that bridge is really helpful and it's
a useful tool in a lot of scenarios that like
festivals or you know when you're not playing
your own show you don't assume those people are
fans of you so You want to kind of reach out
and say, hey, you know this song, like check
out the way we do it, you know? Nice. Well, one
of the live staples of Blues Traveler is the
annual 4th of July show at Red Rocks, which has
happened every year since 1994, with the exception
of 1999 due to John's health and 2020 due to
COVID. The band takes up shop and offers really
unique. one -of -a -kind set lists, full album
playthroughs, and other momentous live moments.
Can you talk about what this tradition means
to the band? Yeah, Red Rocks is like the cornerstone
of our year. You know, it's really a keystone.
It's probably our most important gig and our
favorite gig to play. It's an amazing place.
It's always a great crowd. We have the longest
running tenure of any single event night at Red
Rocks. I mean, it's something like 30 years,
you know, with the exception of that one year
where John couldn't. And it's a real, you know,
big deal. We take that really seriously and try
to vary it as much as we can. We've done a lot
of different things. We've done some, if it's
the anniversary of an album, we've done like
doing the album. But I think we're over that
because it's like that ends up being like you
play maybe three or four of the songs on any
given album we play regularly, but the others
we don't. So we play it front to back live. but
having never rehearsed the other songs. So you
end up with a couple songs that are a little
bit flat in there that are just kind of like,
oh, crap. So I think now we're trying to just
make it as cool an experience as we can, unless
there's a big anniversary that John really wants
to try to celebrate. I think it's kind of our
most important show, and there's a legacy there
of kind of that was one of the big first shows
the band ever did. As far as like big places
that meant a lot to him. Well, selfishly, I'm
going to bring up my favorite blues traveler
gig of all time, because that was June 2nd, 2009,
when I had the honor and privilege of opening
for you guys at the Bergen Pack in Englewood.
And it was one of the most memorable musical
experiences for me because I got to share the
stage with a band that I admire. Now, my question
to you is, is there a band that you have ever
shared the bill with personally? where you left
the stage with that feeling of, man, I can't
believe we got to share the stage with blank.
Yeah. You know, for me, oddly enough, it was,
you know, I mean, there were several times, you
know, that we had played or opened that I was
just like, this is, this is awesome. But on like
some festivals, like we, we, we, Blues Rabbit
doesn't really go, I think Train and the maybe
Bare Naked Ladies were the only time we've ever
gone out as like a precursor, you know, an opener.
And so with Blues Traveler, it didn't happen
that much. I mean, we'd share a stage at a festival.
But oddly for me, like the most meaningful was,
well, there were two. Personally, I played with
John Popper Project and we did this thing where
Taj Mahal was on stage at Warren's Christmas
Jam. And I was just, I love Taj Mahal. And my
dad had passed away just before. So it was like,
I was in an emotional state. just meeting Taj
and having, I was just, that personally was like,
whoa. But the other one was Ziggy Marley. When
he sat in with us and we played with Ziggy on
tour, there was something just so amazing about
him singing the Bob Marley song, No Woman Will
Cry, that was just, it blew me away. And it just
gave me shivers while we were rehearsing it.
And then on stage, I was just like, oh my God,
this is just. That's something about that, you
know, the timbre of his voice and the song and
the place, it all came together. And that, that
really was like a, you know, an honor to be a
part of that, even though it wasn't an opening
gig necessarily, but you know, it was one of
those things where I was just like, duh. And
then on a personal note, when like Oteel sat
in and jams with us, you know, and he and I are
trading licks or, and Victor Wooten, those were
like, you know, I'm not worthy kind of moments.
I get it. Now, in 2021, the band released an
album entitled Travelers Blues. The title, awesome,
by the way. A collection of blues cover songs,
such as Sun Seal's Funky Bitch, which jam band
fans also know as a popular song in the Phish
universe, as well as a blues rock rendition of
Gnarls Barkley's massive hit, Crazy, featuring
Rita Wilson and John Schofield. And that album
also featured guests like Chris Stone, Kingfish
Ingram, Warren Haynes, Keb Moe. Can you talk
about that full circle moment for the band doing
an actual straight up blues album? Yeah, that
was pretty surreal to be. We were joking about
the whole time going in like we're actually playing
blues. So, you know, we all kind of, you know,
listen to a bunch of blues songs and obviously
the ones that we did. But we tried to mean it.
What was hard is not to go like super bluesy
with it and try to maintain just playing. kind
of our roles in our rendition of it obviously
we're not we don't profess to be you know blues
guys i mean obviously john i could easily see
as but we're not you know that's not our forte
and uh it was you know a little humbling to to
get in and when you get into the minutia of some
of the blue stuff it's like what they're not
playing is what's cool about it and we're more
of like throw everyone's playing and it's a cacophony
of you know a lot of people jamming in the mid
-range And it was really interesting, and that's
why I said it humbling, to kind of peel back
and be like, wow, it's when they're not playing,
it's the space that makes blues so cool. And
it's no choices as opposed to not a flurry of
notes. And in going through the recording, it
was really kind of fun to go through that process
and learn about the blues in that sense. Well,
now the band has just released Traveler's Soul,
the sequel. in part to travelers blues, which
features the band's take on soul classics, such
as the lead single fool for you, which was originally
written by Curtis Mayfield and performed by the
impressions. And you guys took some liberties
with the original recording, making it a unique
blues traveler song, as well as a rounded re
-imagining of that. classic track. Now, even
though Soul has always been a part of Blues Traveler's
mindset, because a song like Money Back Guarantee
from Bastardos immediately comes to my mind,
this is the first time it's the focus of an entire
Blues Traveler album. So can you talk about the
mindset behind that around what songs you guys
chose? Yeah, it was kind of a continuation. The
idea kind of from the get -go with the record
company who kind of presented it to us as if
we do like three different genres over three
albums and the blues one we just we just picked
blues randomly and then kind of went through
trying to curate which songs we want to do and
again you know it comes down to there's some
vocal kind of that's the the centerpiece is like
will john be able to and get into singing this
and so that that did pretty well in in our i
kind of came out well for us you know we felt
that it was cool And so we then picked soul as
a kind of the next genre. And it was kind of
the same process. Everyone kind of picked through
some of their favorites and threw it into a pool.
We had, you know, kind of a thread and with the
producer and the record company and the band
and just kind of built a list and then kind of
took away things that wouldn't work necessarily.
And then kind of looked into the keys and see,
you know, kind of how they all fit together.
And just I mean, it's as simple as that. It's,
you know, we kind of went with like the ones
we want to do. Well, the band offers their take
on Delight's classic Groove is in the Heart,
which features Liv Warfield from Prince's New
Power Generation. Now, the original is a funk
bass masterclass from the legendary Bootsy Collins.
And as a bass player to another one, not only
did you step. to the plate on this one, dude,
you hit a frigging home run because it feels
like you're tipping the hat to Bootsy, but you're
also adding your unique style of playing to this
song. I'd love to know what your mindset was
walking into approaching an iconic baseline without
changing it so much that you take away from the
heart of the song. Yeah, that was an interesting
one. That was John. John contributed that. He
just liked the song and we were like, well, yeah,
it's a badass song, but how are we going to do
it? You know? And me and Shan just sat down and
said, Hey, this is how we'll play the riff. Cause
it can be played kind of a couple of different
ways. And I didn't know if the producer was just
going to loop it or we'd actually play it. And
it ended up me and Shan played the riff just
straight through. Like, so that's all just live
playing the riff over and over and over. And
you know, After one take, you basically have
it. And, you know, it's, yeah, Bootsy's, you
know, it's phenomenal. And it kind of came together
pretty good and kind of, we shifted slightly
because there's some soul feels you just can't
get, you know, you just don't have it in you.
And I think that it was just slightly shifted,
but it was super fun to lay down and then afterward
be like, oh, nice. It started to build, you know,
that's one of the songs, you know, like DJs and,
and, and loop based. creators you have to have
a vision and know that where you start it's going
to get more dynamic as you go along well while
we're talking about quote -unquote groove let's
pivot over to the band's take of king floyd's
1970s top 10 hit groove me this one stuck out
to me because of the pocket that you guys slid
into along with how balanced the horn section
was underneath john's vocals then you add in
some very tasty from Chan and John. This to me
was a standout track on the album. Now, as a
live fan, I'm kind of curious. That horn section
brought something to the song that made me think,
hmm, I think about blues traveler tracks like
Go Outside and Drive. I mentioned Money Back
Guarantee. I think about The Wolf is Bumpin'
from 2018's Hurry Up and Hang Around. I could
hear a horn section in a blues traveler live
show. Is there any chance that's ever going to
happen? You know, we always enjoy the horn sit
-ins. Like on the road, we were out with Vanessa
Collier in the fall, I believe. Or no, I think
it was the spring. Yeah, whenever we play with
someone with a horn, it always just is a great
sit -in. We always enjoy it. Usually we'll have
one song and then be like, yeah, do another.
I mean, and it pairs really well with the harmonica
playing. And, you know, I would love to. We've
thought about it in the past, but... Then it's
a couple more people touring, and it just logistically
hasn't worked out. But we would love to have
a couple more. A three -piece would be fantastic,
but that's something I think we've talked about,
but we've never really committed to doing it.
Well, you mentioned something earlier, and it
would not be my radio personality to not touch
on this a little bit more. We have Traveler's
Blues. We have Traveler's Soul. What is the return
of the Jedi to this trilogy? What genre of music
will you be tackling next? You know, it is not
certain. I would tell you, actually, if we knew.
We don't. As of now, we haven't committed to
what the third installation will be. Hopefully
it's not jazz. I was going to say it could be
Traveler's Dubstep, maybe. Yeah, yeah. You know,
something. But it might be. We've talked about
some kind of dance stuff. Maybe that would be
a cool way to go, get some electronic producers
and see if that would be something that would
work. But we're open -minded, and we're having
a blast doing these things. So it's great to
be able to pull apart these iconic songs and
listen to things. The analytics of how these
songs fit together and stuff, it's really fun.
Well, I am looking forward to finding out what
that third album is. But for my last question,
Tad, if you had to sum up Blues Traveler's musical
legacy in three songs, which three would you
choose? Let me see. I think I'd go, But Anyway.
Just because I think it's an iconic song of the
beginning of Traveler and it really identifies
with what was the strengths of the band. I think
Pretty Angry is one in there because it tells
the story of what happened, you know? Yeah. And
it's such a moving song. You know, I think that
has a role there. You know, you're asking what,
three songs? And then for me, I would go back
to Reach Me because it's my favorite song to
play just because it's just fun to play. And
it's, you know, on a personal level, it's my
involvement and, you know, joining of the band.
So those three things kind of, you know, are
kind of important. If you're looking at a timeline
and kind of the history of the band, those three
would stand out to me. Well, Tad, this has been
an absolute honor to have you on the show. Thank
you so much for the many amazing live concerts.
And more importantly, thank you so much for joining
me tonight on my weekly mixtape. It's been an
absolute pleasure. Oh, dude, thank you so much.
It was great talking. If we play anything, if
we're through Jersey, please get in touch with
me. Come say hi backstage. Certainly will. Yeah,
please do. And to all the mixtapers out there,
thank you so much for listening. Remember to
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Until next time, enjoy the tunes.