WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Kay Hanley from Letters to Cleo,

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and you are listening to My Weekly Mixtape with

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Brian Colburn. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape,

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a podcast that takes the classic mixtape approach

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to building a modern playlist. I'm your host,

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Brian Colburn. Tonight, I'm honored to welcome

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the incredible Kay Hanley, lead singer of Letters

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to Cleo to the show. Kay, thank you so much for

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taking the time to talk music with me today.

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I'm happy to be here, Brian. Well, I'd like to

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start by asking you the same question I ask all

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of my first time guests, and that is, what does

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the word mixtape mean to you? Oh, it means romance

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and excitement and puppy love and friendship

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and yeah, all good things. But it reminds me

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of my youth. 100%. Now, my wife is from New Hampshire,

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and she assisted me with this next pronunciation

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so that my New Jersey accent didn't shine through.

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Letters to Cleo hails from, and I'll pause for

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a minute, Dorchester, Massachusetts. That one's

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pretty good. Thank you very much. And because

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of such, the band will always be connected to

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the Boston music scene. Can you talk about what

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that scene was like in the early 90s when the

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band was up and coming and how it's changed and

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evolved over the years since? That's a great

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question. Yes. I mean, my entire ethos as a creative

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person, as a songwriter, is informed by my...

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you know, being raised in the Boston music scene

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in my teens and 20s. Back then, we had two major

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radio stations, two major market radio stations,

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WBCN and WFNX, that played local music. And not

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like, I mean, that we had like local music shows

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on Sunday nights, but like bands weren't relegated

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to just that. It's like you would hear. local

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bands at drive time or at lunch, like during

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regular hours. And DJs had carte blanche to play

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whatever they wanted. And so you could be like

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a famous rock band within the 128 belt loop without

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ever leaving Massachusetts, you know? And that

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was really cool. We also had, aside from that,

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maybe even more popular. were all of the college

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radio stations, you know, MIT and BU, WERS from

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Emerson. These radio stations were hugely influential.

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Everybody listened to them. And even when bands

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like big, major international bands would fly

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through the college radio stations while they

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were doing their press tours and stuff like that.

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And then we had this incredible zine scene. which

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were the independent zines that were like mimeographed

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and stapled together. And like you would be able

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to get them on these stands at like the Middle

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East or TT the Bears. It was basically what I'm

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trying to say is that the ecosystem for like

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being creative and being a local band was it

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was so supportive and just intoxicating to be

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a part of. And I was a massive fan of local bands.

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before I was in one myself. Well, I can't believe

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the next sentence is actually coming out of my

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mouth, but this year marks the 30th anniversary

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of the band's debut album, Aurora Goriales, which

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was originally released on Cherry Disc Records

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in 1993 and re -released in 1994 on Giant Records,

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a major label. A few months back, I talked with

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Will Turpin of Collective Soul, whose band had

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a very similar experience as Letters to Cleo

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as their debut album, hints, allegations, and

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things like that. Left Unsaid was first released

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on Atlanta, Georgia record label Rising Storm

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Records in 1993, the band hail from Atlanta.

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And then Atlantic Records picked it up and re

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-released it in 1994. Now, this is similar to

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Letters to Cleo as Cherry Disc Records was based

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out of Boston and you guys followed the same

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93 -94 path. So can you talk about how Giant

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Records discovered Aurora and what the transition

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was like? for the band to go from a local Boston

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indie label to a major label all within the same

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album cycle. Yeah, that's a great question. I

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did not know that Collective Soul had shared

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the same 93 -94 trajectory with us. That's very

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interesting. That's my music nerd. I'm coming

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out here. I apologize. I love it. That's great.

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It's good to have the context. And I feel like

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a lot of bands at that time, You know, it was

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just a very vital time for alternative rock music

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and indie pop. And the major labels were, you

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know, circling. And like bands like mine were

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like getting signed at that time. So for Letters

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to Cleo, I mean, we weren't really, at least

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I'll speak for myself, I was not very careerist.

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I didn't even know that being in a band could

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be a career. That wasn't really part of my plan.

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I loved being in my band, but we toured a lot,

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you know, like we would, you know, I would work

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a double shift at the restaurant on Thursday

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and then Thursday night we'd get in the van and

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drive overnight to New York. And then on Friday,

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Saturday, Sunday, we'd play like New York, Philly.

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And so we were like touring a lot in our van

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and we made it down to South by Southwest in

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93. after aurora came out and south by southwest

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back then was well you remember yeah it was the

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destination yeah i mean it was it was very different

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than what it is now and so the first two times

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we got to south by southwest in 91 and 92 our

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shows had been canceled and so I know. Like,

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and we were like out on the road and it would

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take a lot for us to go out on the road. Like

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we did not have money. You know, we were paying

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for it ourselves. We were giving ourselves, you

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know, $10 a day per diems and we're racing our

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entire tours around like Cracker Barrel maps.

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Because we knew exactly how much we could eat

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at Cracker Barrel for exactly how much money.

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And we would eat, you know, it's just. It was

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just different times. No cell phones, no internet.

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And so we got to our 93 showcase at South by

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Southwest. And Steve White from Billboard had

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decided to review the Cherry Disc version of

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Aurora Goriales on the cover of Billboard the

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week of our showcase at South by Southwest that

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year. And we were like, what the f***? And Michael

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Creamer, our manager, and Larry Webman, our booking

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agent, like took the billboard, ran down to Kinko's,

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mimeographed a bunch of copies and like ran back

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to the Four Seasons, which is where all the,

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you know, executive A &R people would have their

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expense, you know, would be drinking all day

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on their expense accounts and like hand it out.

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covers of our, now Veruca Salt was like the big

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band that year. They were like the ones that

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were on fire that year. So we were not, we were

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just like kind of nobodies and Veruca Salt was

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getting all the fire. So it was like really cool

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that we were able to just like generate some

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kind of interest. And as it turned out, we had

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some fans by then because we'd toured a lot.

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So like we had some fans and also the nascent

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internet. we had a lot of like, the internet

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was very new. And so we did have the internet.

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And we had, there were like these college boards

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that people had started talking about our band

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on. You know, there were just, it was very, very,

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very nerdy at the time. And not many people were

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like in these chat rooms, but like some of them

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were talking about Letters to Cleo. So we actually

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had some people at our show. And the A &R people

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came to the show. And we ended up getting taken

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out to our first meal from a major label. Oh

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my gosh, why am I spacing on his name? I'm going

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to have to get back to you on this. But he's

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from RCA and took us out to breakfast. And then

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kind of like the label started calling. And we

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ended up going with Giant Records. Jeff Aldrich

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flew out to Boston. to take us out. Now, like

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my favorite thing in the world still to this

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day is like when some big shot pays for my lunch.

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Like I just love there's nothing I love more

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or like free snacks. Like I just like I'm still

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in like poverty mode. I'm a grown ass person.

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Like I still just like love when people pay for

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my food. And so we got a lot of free meals and

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we ended up signing with Giant after they told

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us about their Melrose Place soundtrack. that

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Amy Mann was going to be on the replacements

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and like all these bands that we loved. And we

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were like, we want to be on that. And little

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did we know what was going to happen from that

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decision. Well, obviously that was here and now

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track six on Aurora Goriales. For those of us

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who own the CD. Dude, I didn't know what track

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it was. Went on to become the band's highest

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charting hit. As far as I'm concerned, this song

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is an absolute musical snapshot of 93 and 94

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between the radio play and then the placement

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on Melrose Place. Getting featured on TV and

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movie soundtracks in the 90s. was kind of a different

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animal than it is today. However, there's no

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denying the impact that a TV or movie feature

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can have on the song. Having had experiences

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across the decades in both television and film,

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would you be able to talk about how that part

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of the business has kind of evolved? Well, I

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can only say how it has impacted me. I have no

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sense of how these things impact bands now. To

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me, it seems more about people will actually,

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and this is not a criticism, I would not have

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done it this way, but I understand why artists

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do it. People will write songs with the expressed

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motivation of getting a Target commercial. or

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an Apple ad, you know, like people will write

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songs with that in mind. That was absolutely

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anathema back in the 90s. And I don't, in retrospect,

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you know, we passed up a lot of money and clout

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that we could have had by saying no to commercials

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and things like that. But it seemed like we could

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do, you know, movie soundtracks and still retain

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our, you know, our dignity. And by the way, I'm

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kind of I'm using air quotes now because, you

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know, this is sort of like the insolence of you.

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Yes. You know, now that I have like kids and

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responsibilities, it's like, wow, I really wish

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I had that $10 ,000 from fucking Kool -Aid. I'm

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sorry, am I allowed to swear? Sure, help yourself.

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Like it was really silly the way I, you know,

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how proprietary I felt about the band's credibility.

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But that said. You know, being on movie soundtracks

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was something that Letters to Cleo ended up doing

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quite a bit. You know, we ended up arguably more

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well -known for covering Cheap Trick on the roof

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in the final scene of 10 Things I Hate About

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You than for Here and Now. You know, there were

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a lot of people that when the band kind of reformed

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in 2015, we were shocked at how many fans we

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had. from movies that came out after the band

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broke up that never thought that they would see

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us. And we were just like, where did all these,

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these new people come from? And it was from soundtrack

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stuff, from the craft, from Josie and the Pussycats

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for sure. Yeah. We're definitely going to touch

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on those, but right now I want to stick with

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Aurora Goriales because this past weekend I listened

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to the album front to back to kind of put me

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in the right mindset for tonight's conversation.

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The first thing that came to my mind as somebody

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who heard the album in 1993 and I'm listening

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to it again in 2023 was how Letters to Cleo had

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such a unique and unmistakable energy about their

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music. It's that energy that lives and breathes

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throughout all the songs on the album. such as

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Big Star, Rimshack, Wasted, Get On With It. I

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could pretty much pick out any song here as an

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example. But when you listen to the album with

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three decades of hindsight, coupled with the

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unique perspective of being someone who, as the

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liner notes read, sings and plays a little guitar

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on the album, I'd love to know what the first

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thing that comes to mind for you is. Well, you're

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assuming that I'm listening to this record at

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all, which I am not. Here's part one of the answer.

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I have never really listened to any Letters to

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Cleo albums. Wow. I can't stand. It's changed

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now. Now that I write music for other people,

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for other stuff for a living, I don't mind it

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now. But back in those days, the sound of my

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own voice absolutely horrified me. I could not

00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.740
listen to our records at all. Be that as it may,

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this is part two, going, you know, rehearsing

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this, you know, we're getting ready to rehearse

00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:21.500
the song. So obviously, like, I have to go through

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and look at the lyrics and stuff like that. And

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it's interesting, you know, with so much time

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in the rear view, thinking about what it was

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like to be able to write songs at 20, 21, 22,

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and just having these incredible snapshots of

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who I was at that time and how much I've changed,

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how much I haven't changed. I'm so grateful for

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that. You know, people who are that age now are

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going to look back at their Instagrams and their,

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you know, the photos in their phones or on their

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computers. And I don't have any of that. Like,

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I don't have a lot of photographs of myself doing

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all the dumb shit that I did. Thank God for that.

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I don't either. I cannot imagine. I acted such

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a fool back in those. I can't imagine that stuff

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being preserved for forever. But I do have these

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songs that I wrote with my band. And the five

00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:32.710
of us in a rehearsal space, fleshing out these

00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:36.490
ideas and putting my lyrics to music or putting

00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:39.830
lyrics to their music, whatever the case may

00:15:39.830 --> 00:15:42.470
be. It's just like such an unbelievable gift

00:15:42.470 --> 00:15:47.029
to myself later on. Now, when you guys are practicing

00:15:47.029 --> 00:15:50.049
these songs for your upcoming handful of East

00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:52.470
Coast tour dates to celebrate the 30th anniversary

00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:55.610
of the album, do you find yourself going back

00:15:55.610 --> 00:15:59.360
and kind of. Feeling that energy from the lyrics

00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.740
and from the songs as you originally wrote them.

00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.179
Like, is it a time capsule for you when you start

00:16:04.179 --> 00:16:06.840
singing one of the songs? You're instantly 22

00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:11.120
again back on stage in Boston. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

00:16:11.419 --> 00:16:16.100
Absolutely. And the byproduct is also being able

00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:19.279
to like sing these songs with with that, like

00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.200
they have new meaning as well as the old meaning.

00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.549
Like I said, like I haven't changed. A whole

00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:29.769
lot, at least the way I think, the way I process

00:16:29.769 --> 00:16:33.289
things. So it's interesting to be able to sing

00:16:33.289 --> 00:16:37.090
these songs with new perspective. Hindsight is

00:16:37.090 --> 00:16:41.889
always 20 -20. It sure is. Well, in 1995, the

00:16:41.889 --> 00:16:44.330
band released Wholesale Meats and Fish, which

00:16:44.330 --> 00:16:46.389
was the first time the band recorded an album

00:16:46.389 --> 00:16:49.690
specifically for Giant. That record features

00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:52.690
amazing tunes and letters to Cleo, Live Staples,

00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.049
Demon Rock, Pizza Cutter, Awake, and Fastway,

00:16:56.070 --> 00:16:58.750
again, just to name a few. Was there a different

00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:02.429
atmosphere and experience recording this album

00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:06.390
versus Aurora with a major label being involved

00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:11.990
from the start of the project? I never thought

00:17:11.990 --> 00:17:16.809
of it that way. Most of the songs for Wholesale,

00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.119
had been written by the time we because we started

00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:25.819
making that record in 94 sort of at the end of

00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:28.920
94 and like I said earlier we were road dogs

00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.619
we were on the road like any new song that we

00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:34.599
had like instantly went into the set and we didn't

00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:36.500
have that pressure of like oh you have to have

00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:38.240
the record before you play it's like you would

00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.839
introduce your new songs because that's the only

00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.480
way that people would get to know the new Right.

00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:47.700
Yeah. And so the songs had already been well

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:51.819
road tested. We were making that album again

00:17:51.819 --> 00:17:54.640
with Mike Dineen, who had been, you know, producing

00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.480
our records and our songs for years by then.

00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:01.279
And so it didn't really feel that different,

00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:05.299
except for we got to fly to like L .A. and do

00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:09.640
pre -production with Dineen at like Ocean Way

00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:14.529
in Hollywood. So we had a budget. And of course,

00:18:14.529 --> 00:18:16.990
we didn't realize that that was all our money.

00:18:17.970 --> 00:18:21.869
And we didn't understand how the math really

00:18:21.869 --> 00:18:24.390
worked. We were just like, we get to fly on an

00:18:24.390 --> 00:18:29.210
airplane and record music somewhere else. And

00:18:29.210 --> 00:18:32.769
that seemed very novel. It was very novel to

00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:35.930
us. I mean, it felt really like, this is cool.

00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.450
It was exactly what we thought being on a major

00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:42.579
label would be like. And most of our friends

00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:45.240
labels were in New York, but ours was in L .A.

00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:50.599
So we would like anyway. So if the question is,

00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:54.660
did we feel the pressure of that major label

00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:57.359
pressure? We didn't, because like I said, most

00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.180
of the songs had been written and road tested

00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:02.819
already and they didn't really get in the way.

00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.720
There were some, you know, flags that were thrown

00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.130
up that I. You know, our A &R guy, Jeff Aldrich,

00:19:12.309 --> 00:19:14.890
kind of like took me aside and asked me if I

00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:17.470
wanted to write, if I would be willing to write

00:19:17.470 --> 00:19:20.690
songs with like songwriters that were not in

00:19:20.690 --> 00:19:24.190
the band. And I was like, no. And so I refused

00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:27.029
that. But he didn't push either. He wasn't he

00:19:27.029 --> 00:19:29.970
wasn't like he was like, all right. And they

00:19:29.970 --> 00:19:32.809
released the record early because we wanted them

00:19:32.809 --> 00:19:35.869
to, you know, the label and our attorney wanted

00:19:35.869 --> 00:19:39.559
to go with. Icy as the second single from Aurora

00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:43.339
Goriales. But I was really sick of Icy and pushed

00:19:43.339 --> 00:19:45.339
them to put out Wholesale Meats and Fish early.

00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:48.640
And they did, even though that was a huge mistake.

00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:54.660
What did I know? Nothing. I knew nothing. That's

00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.680
okay, though. It's all art. There's no right

00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.759
or wrong answers at the end of the day. No, I

00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.019
have no complaints. All these years later, I

00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:04.859
have no complaints about the way we conducted

00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:08.339
our careers. Well, here's an interesting spin

00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:12.099
in your career. In 1996, you performed alongside

00:20:12.099 --> 00:20:16.240
Gary Cherone of Extreme in the Boston Rock Opera's

00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:19.559
performance of Jesus Christ Superstar as Mary

00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:23.160
Magdalene. Yes. I would love to know what the

00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.519
transition was like for you as a singer to jump

00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.319
from the live band stage to a theater production

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.079
stage and what you personally took away from

00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.660
that experience. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That's

00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:40.500
such a great question. You know, this was a Boston

00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:43.819
rock opera production. So, again, it was very

00:20:43.819 --> 00:20:47.279
local, but it was with like a lot of people from

00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.380
the Boston music, like another part of the Boston

00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:52.160
music scene with people that I like didn't know.

00:20:52.700 --> 00:20:57.460
So they asked our manager, Creamer, if I would

00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:00.519
be interested in doing this role. And I had heard

00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.630
about. the production. They had been already

00:21:03.630 --> 00:21:05.950
been doing it for a couple of years at the Middle

00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:10.170
East downstairs. And so I knew about the company.

00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:11.890
I knew about the production. And I was like,

00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:14.849
I think we'd like to do that. We had some time

00:21:14.849 --> 00:21:17.849
off and it was scary. It was really intimidating

00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:21.970
to like go in and like all of these people were

00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:25.329
even though it was Boston rock opera. So it wasn't

00:21:25.329 --> 00:21:28.609
sort of like this theater group, you know, it

00:21:28.609 --> 00:21:31.180
wasn't musical theater nerds, but like. the punk

00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:35.119
rock ones, you know? So it was really, it was

00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.680
really intimidating. And then we ended up, I

00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:43.859
had the best, best time. And I, you know, I understand

00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:47.599
why people get really into like addicted to theater

00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.539
because you become a family in those productions,

00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.339
you know, through rehearsals and, and then the,

00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.900
the camaraderie that you develop like backstage

00:21:57.900 --> 00:22:01.490
while you're doing this. It's like, oh, it's

00:22:01.490 --> 00:22:06.009
absolutely intoxicating. And I loved every minute

00:22:06.009 --> 00:22:09.509
of it. Gary and I had the best time. You know,

00:22:09.529 --> 00:22:12.869
we became very good friends. And, you know, and

00:22:12.869 --> 00:22:15.569
I still to this day have friends from that production

00:22:15.569 --> 00:22:18.809
that I will have for the rest of my life. That's

00:22:18.809 --> 00:22:23.390
amazing. In 1997, the band released Go. And this

00:22:23.390 --> 00:22:25.569
is the first Letters to Cleo album to feature

00:22:25.569 --> 00:22:29.029
Tom Pulce on drums. And this album features another

00:22:29.029 --> 00:22:32.190
batch of amazing tunes, including Copilot, the

00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:35.410
title track, Disappear, and Anchor, which is

00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:37.910
the track I'd like to touch on. Because this

00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:41.029
track features a Boston musical legend, if I

00:22:41.029 --> 00:22:44.630
may call him that, Greg Hawks of the Cars, who

00:22:44.630 --> 00:22:47.670
plays keyboards on this song. I'd love to know

00:22:47.670 --> 00:22:50.589
the story behind Greg's appearance on the track

00:22:50.589 --> 00:22:53.009
and what it meant for you on a musical and personal

00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:57.359
level coming from Boston as well. Yeah. Oh, my

00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.339
gosh. I love Greg. He's such a wonderful, beautiful

00:23:00.339 --> 00:23:04.759
weirdo. The reason that, well, we became friends

00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:08.740
with him because we recorded going, this is a

00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:12.619
callback to our talk about soundtracks. We recorded

00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:15.599
Dangerous Type for the Kraft soundtrack. And

00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.460
back then, those movie studio budgets were like,

00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:25.829
meh. And so we called Greg. You know, we didn't

00:23:25.829 --> 00:23:28.630
call him because we didn't know him. But we were

00:23:28.630 --> 00:23:30.930
like, you know, I wonder if Greg Hawks would

00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:33.589
come out here and play keys on Dangerous Type.

00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:36.769
And so we got in touch with him somehow. And

00:23:36.769 --> 00:23:39.630
he said yes. And he flew out to L .A. and recorded.

00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:43.089
So we became friends with him then at that point.

00:23:43.130 --> 00:23:44.910
And we were just like, we want to be friends

00:23:44.910 --> 00:23:47.960
with you all the time. So when we were. When

00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:51.940
we were making Go, it was such an obvious choice

00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:55.180
to get him to. And since then, he's he's like

00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:57.960
played live with us and he's just such a great

00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.099
guy. Well, The Cars Self -Titled is my personal

00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:03.299
favorite album of all time. I've talked about

00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:06.019
it a ton on this show. It's a genre defining

00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:10.039
album mixing new wave punk rock and all this

00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:13.279
stuff together, as well as this. Between Rick

00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.740
and Ben, this lyrical style that is this very

00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:19.880
happy, poppy music with some darker tones, which

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.559
I see kind of ingrained throughout the Letters

00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.339
to Cleo career and in your songwriting as well.

00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:29.700
So back in 1994, I took my then girlfriend to

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:33.640
see The Craft in the theater. And when the movie's

00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.000
playing and Dangerous Type comes on, having grown

00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:39.859
up with the cars, I'm sitting in the seat. singing

00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:42.319
along kind of under my breath with the lyrics

00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.259
of the song and my girlfriend at the time actually

00:24:45.259 --> 00:24:47.180
thought that i had seen the movie without her

00:24:47.180 --> 00:24:54.019
already did not realize that i was just the song

00:24:54.019 --> 00:24:56.660
caught me and as soon as the movie was over we

00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:58.539
went right to the mall and i grabbed the soundtrack

00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:01.299
and i've owned it ever since i'd love to hear

00:25:01.299 --> 00:25:05.430
the story behind how Dangerous Type, a Cars cover

00:25:05.430 --> 00:25:07.509
song, which that wasn't a major hit for the band.

00:25:07.549 --> 00:25:09.990
That was on Candio, and it was never released

00:25:09.990 --> 00:25:12.930
as a single, but it is a fan favorite. And now

00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:15.490
I finally get to ask, after decades of kind of

00:25:15.490 --> 00:25:18.130
just wondering about this, how did Letters to

00:25:18.130 --> 00:25:22.109
Cleo choose Dangerous Type for the craft? The

00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:26.369
story behind that song begins and ends with this

00:25:26.369 --> 00:25:30.609
guy named Ralph Saul, who in the 90s, he'd been

00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:34.799
a TV executive at Fox. but also like a massive

00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:39.579
music fan, like real, real deal music fan. And

00:25:39.579 --> 00:25:44.099
he sort of like identified this need in the movie

00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.880
space. There was a, as you remember, there were

00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:49.700
a lot of sort of like young adult film. Like

00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:51.940
that was like the big thing in the 90s. And he

00:25:51.940 --> 00:25:56.579
sort of like, he became the go -to person for

00:25:56.579 --> 00:26:00.759
movie soundtracks. He basically. I think one

00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.880
of the first things he did was actually getting

00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:07.619
all of his favorite bands to do covers of schoolhouse

00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:10.000
rock songs. Oh, yeah. I remember that comp. Yeah.

00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:12.400
With Blind Melon and everything. Of course. So

00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:15.140
Ralph did that. He got all of it. And so the

00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:17.660
way that he would get to meet his favorite bands

00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:21.299
was to hire them to get these like big, you know,

00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.940
movie budget and hire all of his favorite bands

00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:28.009
to do covers. for these movie soundtracks. And

00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:31.450
if you go back, you will see that thread throughout

00:26:31.450 --> 00:26:34.390
the 90s of like all these cover songs being performed

00:26:34.390 --> 00:26:38.250
by all the bands in the 90s. And so he was the

00:26:38.250 --> 00:26:40.950
one who hired us for 10 Things I Hate About You

00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:45.710
as well. I'm not sure if Dangerous Type was his

00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:49.690
idea or our idea. You know, when we would do

00:26:49.690 --> 00:26:52.289
these things for Ralph, we'd just like a lot

00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:56.359
of, we'd record a lot of songs. And some of them

00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.259
would be our idea. Some of them would be his

00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:01.920
idea. So I'm not sure whose idea that was. But

00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.900
obviously, no matter whose it was, we were on

00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:08.180
board 100 percent. 100 percent here as well,

00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:11.640
because when we had an episode on 90s movie soundtracks,

00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:15.720
spoiler alert, one of my choices was Dangerous

00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.039
Type from The Craft because of how much the cars

00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:20.640
and your version means to me. It's just such

00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.700
an incredible cover. I talk about cover songs

00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.519
all the time because I'm a big fan of an artist

00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.779
taking a song that's already kind of ingrained

00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:34.299
in somebody's musical DNA and putting their own

00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:36.779
spin on it and making it a unique piece of art

00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.180
that pays homage to the original. And I love

00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:43.200
what you bring to the cover songs that. Letters

00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:44.779
to Cleo has done over the years. So that's a

00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:47.640
perfect transition into my next question. Because

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.559
on the Spirit of 73 Rock for Choice compilation,

00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:56.599
the band covered a song that is literally ingrained

00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.200
in my musical DNA. Because before I was born,

00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.740
my mother has told me many a times throughout

00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:04.400
the years that when she was pregnant with me,

00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.259
every night before bed, she would put her headphones

00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:10.339
on and listen to Fleetwood Mac's Rumors before

00:28:10.339 --> 00:28:14.690
going to bed. So that is another one of my favorite

00:28:14.690 --> 00:28:17.250
albums of all time because I had already pretty

00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:20.470
much known it before I knew how to talk. I was

00:28:20.470 --> 00:28:22.750
always impressed with Letters to Cleo's ability

00:28:22.750 --> 00:28:25.869
to bring a level of heft. to the songs that you

00:28:25.869 --> 00:28:27.990
were covering while still maintaining the integrity

00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:30.750
of the original. And to do that on a track like

00:28:30.750 --> 00:28:35.009
Dreams is quite a balance because you're adding

00:28:35.009 --> 00:28:38.089
this intensity to a song that's very dreamy,

00:28:38.089 --> 00:28:40.869
but somehow you made all the pieces of the puzzle

00:28:40.869 --> 00:28:44.809
fit perfectly. And I absolutely love this cover

00:28:44.809 --> 00:28:47.470
and would love to hear what it means for you

00:28:47.470 --> 00:28:50.529
singing this because listening to your vocals,

00:28:50.710 --> 00:28:54.359
I hear. that this song meant something to you

00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:58.079
in that performance? Oh, man, I forgot all about

00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.299
that. Thank you for asking about this particular

00:29:01.299 --> 00:29:05.859
song. First of all, it's kind of heavy to think

00:29:05.859 --> 00:29:09.720
about the spirit of 73 was for abortion rights.

00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:13.940
And at that time, women, it never even occurred

00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:19.359
to my generation that that right was under the

00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:23.910
kind of threat. that it actually was facing down

00:29:23.910 --> 00:29:27.109
in the next couple of decades. And the idea that

00:29:27.109 --> 00:29:30.549
we're living in a time where that has been struck

00:29:30.549 --> 00:29:35.250
down and many women are not able to access a

00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:38.069
basic human right, which is to health care, is

00:29:38.069 --> 00:29:42.170
shocking. So we didn't even, it's kind of quaint.

00:29:42.950 --> 00:29:46.589
You know, we were fighting for a right that we

00:29:46.589 --> 00:29:50.029
did not understand was under such threat. So

00:29:50.029 --> 00:29:52.890
that aside, you know, that being the context,

00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:57.910
we chose that song because we loved it. And we

00:29:57.910 --> 00:30:02.269
had started at the time our tour schedule was

00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:07.670
insane. And I did not have any respect for this

00:30:07.670 --> 00:30:10.430
instrument, my voice. And so, you know, I was

00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:14.549
drinking and smoking and screaming and like talking

00:30:14.549 --> 00:30:16.809
to fans after the show and before the show and

00:30:16.809 --> 00:30:21.069
staying out all night. And I. lost my voice at

00:30:21.069 --> 00:30:24.609
the beginning of the tour and I tried to record

00:30:24.609 --> 00:30:29.349
the vocal several times for that song and finally

00:30:29.349 --> 00:30:32.609
we got to LA and it was like it was the deadline

00:30:32.609 --> 00:30:35.190
was passed and we had to turn the song in and

00:30:35.190 --> 00:30:37.789
at the time you couldn't you know it's like you

00:30:37.789 --> 00:30:40.670
had to go to a studio that you had to like we

00:30:40.670 --> 00:30:43.789
had to carry the tapes with us and like you know

00:30:43.789 --> 00:30:46.470
put the two inch tapes on the studer and like

00:30:46.779 --> 00:30:50.420
So it was an ordeal to like book a studio and

00:30:50.420 --> 00:30:53.079
like get in. So we got to L .A. I forget which

00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:58.720
one. And my voice is trashed. I could not sing

00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:04.019
at all, at all. Wow. And it's interesting to

00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:06.839
hear that because actually I can listen to that

00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.319
performance because it's like you can hear just

00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.190
like the pain of me trying to like. Like I never

00:31:14.190 --> 00:31:18.509
sang that softly or like I've never had a performance

00:31:18.509 --> 00:31:23.670
on before or since that sounds like that. And

00:31:23.670 --> 00:31:26.430
it's horrible, but it's also kind of awesome.

00:31:26.849 --> 00:31:30.589
See, I never it's amazing how that context changes

00:31:30.589 --> 00:31:32.569
because as somebody who didn't know that story,

00:31:32.869 --> 00:31:37.349
I just always listen to that as a kind of heartfelt,

00:31:37.609 --> 00:31:41.400
emotive delivery of the song. It was heartfelt.

00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.839
It was like I was singing it with every fiber.

00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:51.299
To get every note out took everything I had.

00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:55.180
And so it was both physical, like me struggling

00:31:55.180 --> 00:32:01.160
to get the song out, but also the words took

00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:04.039
on a different meaning. Because I couldn't rely

00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.579
on my instrument the way I normally would, so

00:32:07.579 --> 00:32:12.400
I chose every note. Very carefully because with

00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.880
intention, because I had to, because I couldn't

00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.519
talk at all. Like if I were to talk, it would

00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.339
sound like this. Oh, wow. So like the fact that

00:32:21.339 --> 00:32:24.920
I got any notes to resonate at all was like,

00:32:24.980 --> 00:32:28.799
it's. Yeah. Wow. Well, as soon as we're done

00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.160
with this interview, the first thing I'm doing

00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.000
is listening to that with all this in hindsight

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.440
now. I can't wait to go back and listen now.

00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:38.059
Well, we've talked about it before. The next

00:32:38.059 --> 00:32:40.240
two covers are from the hit comedy 10 Things

00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.640
I Hate About You, which starred Julia Stiles,

00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.599
Heath Ledger and Joseph Gordon -Levitt. The band

00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:48.680
had two covers on the soundtrack. You mentioned

00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.420
one of them, Cheap Tricks, I Want You to Want

00:32:50.420 --> 00:32:52.640
Me and the other being Nick Lowe's Cruel to Be

00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.180
Kind in the 90s. To some extent, even the early

00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:00.940
part of the aughts, soundtracks were a big, big

00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:04.180
deal. Bands were competing for just a single

00:33:04.180 --> 00:33:07.839
slot on a soundtrack release. Not only did Letters

00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:11.180
to Cleo have two songs appear on the 10 Things

00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:14.819
soundtrack, you also had two other songs appear

00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:17.700
in the movie, Come On, which the band had released

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:21.640
early 2000s time capsule moment here as a free

00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:26.079
MP3 download. as well as co -pilot, which was

00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:29.640
on the album Go, how did the band become such

00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:33.259
a huge musical connection? Because that's four

00:33:33.259 --> 00:33:37.660
slots in one soundtrack. That's unheard of. What?

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:42.279
You really do your homework. This is an unbelievable

00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.019
question. I will tell you how that happened.

00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:47.980
I mean, Ralph Saul, of course, called us into

00:33:47.980 --> 00:33:53.140
a little funny backstory to this. I had decided...

00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.200
around that time that I was going to quit the

00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.559
biz. I was going to study to become a sommelier.

00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:03.859
And I was really, really into wine. And so this

00:34:03.859 --> 00:34:07.059
was the career path that I was going to be on.

00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:09.340
I was going to quit the music business. I had

00:34:09.340 --> 00:34:12.739
started working for this very, very important

00:34:12.739 --> 00:34:16.659
wine store in Boston on Newberry Street. And

00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:20.019
I was learning the wine business. And we got

00:34:20.019 --> 00:34:23.539
a call from Ralph Stahl. asking us to come out

00:34:23.539 --> 00:34:26.579
to L .A. and do a couple of songs for this movie

00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:29.380
that was being made. And we were like, so I had

00:34:29.380 --> 00:34:31.320
to tell the wine store that I needed the weekend

00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:33.860
off because we were going to, you know, go and

00:34:33.860 --> 00:34:36.739
do a couple of songs for this. I needed to fly

00:34:36.739 --> 00:34:38.719
out to L .A. to do a couple of songs for this

00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.139
thing. And the wine store was like, sure, go

00:34:41.139 --> 00:34:45.340
ahead. And so off we went. So we get to L .A.

00:34:45.340 --> 00:34:49.000
to Ocean Way, which was just such a legendary

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.079
studio. It's not Ocean Way anymore. It's United,

00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:55.920
I think. But we get out there and we just start

00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.420
recording songs. And we recorded a bunch of songs.

00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.980
And I don't remember what some of them were.

00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:07.340
But then while we were there, the director of

00:35:07.340 --> 00:35:10.480
10 Things I Hate About You called Ralph and was

00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.460
like, hey, I need a band for these scenes and

00:35:13.460 --> 00:35:16.880
blah, blah, blah. And Ralph was like, well, Letters

00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.039
to Cleo's here in L .A. They were up in Seattle

00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.639
making the movie. Letters to Cleo's here recording

00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:24.519
songs. Do you want them? And he's like, send

00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:27.739
me a picture. And so Ralph sent him a picture.

00:35:28.820 --> 00:35:32.659
And he's like, they look great. Send them up.

00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:36.000
So the next thing you know, we're like on a plane

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.619
to Seattle to like shoot scenes in the movie.

00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:42.719
And all of these actors at the time were unknown

00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:44.960
except for Joseph Gordon -Levitt, who had been

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.739
on Third Rock and The Sun. But the rest of them

00:35:47.739 --> 00:35:50.400
were, like Heath was complete. This was his first

00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:54.300
American movie. Julia, Larissa, my favorite,

00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:57.340
who actually was, I think she had a hand in getting

00:35:57.340 --> 00:36:00.480
Letters to Cleo on the soundtrack in the first

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.119
place. She vouched for us when Ralph was like,

00:36:03.139 --> 00:36:05.940
because she was a fan of the band. And anyway,

00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:07.840
so I called the wine store and I was like, I

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:11.610
think I'm not coming back. So, so I never went

00:36:11.610 --> 00:36:13.429
back to the wine store. I went out to Seattle,

00:36:13.530 --> 00:36:16.969
shot scenes for the movie, went back to LA, did

00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:19.469
the, so we basically like lived in LA between

00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:22.570
LA and Seattle for like a month. It was great.

00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:25.070
It was a pretty bunch thing. Like we fit the

00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:29.110
suit. That's unbelievable. And then right after

00:36:29.110 --> 00:36:31.949
that, in 2001, you personally, you mentioned

00:36:31.949 --> 00:36:34.530
this earlier, sang all the vocals for the part

00:36:34.530 --> 00:36:37.849
of Josie in Josie and the Pussycats movie. And

00:36:37.849 --> 00:36:40.210
you also had a hand in writing some of the songs

00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:44.389
such as Shapeshifter and Come On with songs like

00:36:44.389 --> 00:36:47.730
Three Small Words and Pretend to Be Nice, even

00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:50.070
going as far as to making it into Letters to

00:36:50.070 --> 00:36:53.989
Cleo live shows. Can you talk about? This experience

00:36:53.989 --> 00:36:56.670
and how it had differed from what you had done

00:36:56.670 --> 00:37:00.610
with Letters to Cleo up to this point. All right.

00:37:00.630 --> 00:37:02.650
Well, you win the gold medal for all my favorite

00:37:02.650 --> 00:37:09.110
questions. I'm not done yet either. Yeah. So

00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:12.449
that Josie and the Pussycats, I mean, the top

00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:15.530
line is that that experience literally changed

00:37:15.530 --> 00:37:20.099
my life in every conceivable way. My friend Dave

00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.579
Gibbs from the Jiggle Ons, who actually the Jiggle

00:37:22.579 --> 00:37:24.920
Ons are reforming to support Letters to Cleo

00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.500
on our tour in November. Love it. So, yeah, it's

00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:30.500
so awesome. So they're like our brother band.

00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.739
And Dave Gibbs was out in L .A. writing songs

00:37:34.739 --> 00:37:37.840
with Deb and Harry, the directors of Josie and

00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.980
the Pussycats. And they had already hired a Josie

00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:44.260
and Babyface, who was producing the movies for

00:37:44.260 --> 00:37:48.639
the film. He had hired a Josie. And Dave was,

00:37:48.699 --> 00:37:51.159
oh, my God, you need to get my friend Kate saying

00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:53.519
the voices of the pussycats. She'd be perfect.

00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:55.800
And they were like, sure, bring her out. And

00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:57.780
then, you know, Deb and Harry knew letters to

00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:00.699
Cleo. So that that was helpful. You know, just

00:38:00.699 --> 00:38:04.219
even having one hit in your life is very helpful

00:38:04.219 --> 00:38:07.960
in getting people to like return phone calls

00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.639
or, you know, you can parlay it into many different

00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:14.239
things. It turns out I learned later. So I had

00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:18.849
my. Ex -husband, Cleo bandmate, Michael Eisenstein.

00:38:18.849 --> 00:38:22.429
We had had our first child. Zoe Mabel was 11

00:38:22.429 --> 00:38:28.190
months old when we flew out to L .A. I was planning

00:38:28.190 --> 00:38:30.570
to live in Boston for the rest of my life, and

00:38:30.570 --> 00:38:33.110
that didn't happen. But we flew out to L .A.,

00:38:33.110 --> 00:38:36.369
and I started showing up at the studio to be

00:38:36.369 --> 00:38:38.750
the voices of the Pussycats. In the meantime,

00:38:39.190 --> 00:38:42.170
they had started testing the singer that they

00:38:42.170 --> 00:38:45.349
had hired to be Josie with. with Rachel Lee Cook's,

00:38:45.349 --> 00:38:47.889
you know, performance. And it just didn't make

00:38:47.889 --> 00:38:51.570
any, her voice was so good. The woman that they

00:38:51.570 --> 00:38:54.250
had hired, like so good and so big. And so, and

00:38:54.250 --> 00:38:57.469
it just didn't make any sense coming out of Rachel's

00:38:57.469 --> 00:39:00.550
mouth. So it kind of left me in position, like

00:39:00.550 --> 00:39:04.389
I was there. So I'm a very lucky person. Like

00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:06.530
I just end up in the right place in the right

00:39:06.530 --> 00:39:11.909
time a lot. It's really weird. And so I was able

00:39:11.909 --> 00:39:15.019
to kind of. It's a longer story, but I was able

00:39:15.019 --> 00:39:18.440
to swoop in and get the job of Josie, which was

00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:22.079
amazing. And then working with Babyface, it was

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.519
the first time I'd ever been hired to do something

00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:28.239
for my voice. I did not consider myself a singer

00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:33.380
at all. I thought of myself as the singer of

00:39:33.380 --> 00:39:35.780
Letters to Cleo because I wrote the lyrics and

00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:38.460
melody. Who else was going to do it? So I just

00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.139
thought that I yelled really loud and kind of

00:39:41.139 --> 00:39:44.650
hit the notes. And I was hired to like be a singer

00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:49.610
on this project. And then I saw the way Babyface

00:39:49.610 --> 00:39:53.070
conducted his creative life. And it was so inspiring

00:39:53.070 --> 00:39:55.590
to me. And it wasn't so much about the money.

00:39:55.670 --> 00:39:59.090
It was about the fact that people paid him for

00:39:59.090 --> 00:40:02.210
his work, for his creative work. And he was very

00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:05.809
smart about like, he was a consummate business

00:40:05.809 --> 00:40:08.550
person, but he was also a consummate artist.

00:40:08.889 --> 00:40:13.199
And I was like, I... want to do that. I want

00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:17.460
to go behind the scenes and be creative and be

00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:20.199
a business person. That finally was the first

00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.179
time that it clicked for me that this is what

00:40:23.179 --> 00:40:26.780
I'm supposed to be doing. Well, I can't picture

00:40:26.780 --> 00:40:28.880
that soundtrack without your voice on it. I just

00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.960
have to say that. Me either. Thank you. I wanted

00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:35.219
to touch on someone who you worked with on this

00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:37.800
film and on the soundtrack who's sadly no longer

00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:41.739
with us. The amazing Adam Schlesinger of Fountains

00:40:41.739 --> 00:40:44.480
of Wayne, who wrote the song Pretend to be Nice

00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.699
for the film and was also one of your co -writers

00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:50.880
on Come On. I would love to ask what it was like

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:53.239
working with him on this project, as I always

00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:55.860
felt he was an extremely talented and gifted

00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:59.239
songwriter and performer. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:03.179
Well, I did not work with Adam on Pretend to

00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:07.159
be Nice. I recorded that with Babyface. I knew,

00:41:07.219 --> 00:41:10.739
of course, that Adam wrote it, but I had no idea

00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:16.199
how talented he was until after I did all the

00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.539
songs for the movie itself with Babyface. A few

00:41:20.539 --> 00:41:24.380
months later, when I got back to Boston, a few

00:41:24.380 --> 00:41:27.659
months later, Babyface, or I don't know who it

00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:31.019
was, but maybe Devin Harry's people said that

00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:32.940
they wanted to make a soundtrack for the movie.

00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:36.800
And then... Adam was chosen to produce the rest

00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.159
of the songs. And he worked at Q Division with

00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:44.139
Mike Dineen, who was Cleo's producer and was

00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:47.719
Fountains of Wayne's producer. So the three of

00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:51.840
us hold up in a studio at Q Division Studios,

00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:56.139
which was Dineen's studio. And I had the most

00:41:56.139 --> 00:42:00.500
amazing honor. And like, I've never laughed so

00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:03.900
hard in my life. as I did in the month that we

00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:07.019
were recording the song that Adam, Mike and I

00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:09.420
were doing the songs for Josie for the rest of

00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:13.059
the Josie soundtrack. It was unbelievable. And

00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:17.000
then fast forward when we were doing there was

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:22.500
Mondo Records did a 20 year anniversary of the

00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:25.119
release of the soundtrack. And there was like

00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.559
in L .A., there was a screening of the film.

00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.000
There was a Q &A with the actors and with me

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:33.980
and Deb and Harry. And then we performed five

00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:37.519
songs from the soundtrack. And, you know, I was

00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.880
like, you know what? We need to call Adam to

00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:42.780
play on Pretend to Be Nice because, like, we

00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:44.900
just have to. But then I was like, he's so like,

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.900
Adam is a really shy guy and he's kind of elusive.

00:42:47.980 --> 00:42:50.860
He's kind of mysterious. It's like, you know,

00:42:50.860 --> 00:42:53.199
I was kind of like, oh, but he's going to he's

00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:54.800
going to say no. He's not going to want to do

00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.900
it. And I was like, fuck it. I'm going to ask

00:42:56.900 --> 00:42:59.219
him. And so I texted him and I was like, hey,

00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.420
we're doing this thing. You got to, you know,

00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:04.860
you want to play on it with us. And he was like,

00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:10.280
instantly was like, fuck, yes. And so like, and

00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:12.659
he came down to rehearse with us and he played

00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:15.280
the show with us and he was so psyched. And I'm

00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:24.659
so glad that I did that because, because he died

00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.920
the following year. And I'm so glad I didn't

00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.199
miss the chance to spend that time with him.

00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.519
And I'm so glad that I ignored that voice that

00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.159
was like insecure about whether he would want

00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.760
to do that or not, because he didn't want to.

00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:43.719
And we got to spend that time. That was the last

00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:46.219
time that I got to spend with him. And I'm so

00:43:46.219 --> 00:43:50.019
fucking grateful for that. I can't even begin

00:43:50.019 --> 00:43:52.960
to imagine how that impacted someone who knew

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.300
him personally, because even though I didn't

00:43:55.300 --> 00:43:57.659
know him personally, I knew him through his music

00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:01.079
and it hit me extremely hard. I don't want to

00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:03.199
continue to stay on this topic for too long,

00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.179
but I feel like this is important to bring up.

00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:09.480
In 2020, you covered one of Adam's songs. one

00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:11.559
of my favorite Fountains of Wayne songs ever

00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:14.559
for the 2020 compilation, Saving for a Custom

00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.980
Van, which was released exclusively on Bandcamp

00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:20.579
with 100 % of the proceeds going towards the

00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:24.199
Musicare's COVID -19 relief fund. And you brought

00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:28.659
such a unique, almost new wave spin to Radiation

00:44:28.659 --> 00:44:31.960
Vibe. And there's such a joy that shines through

00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:35.480
in your rendition. I'd love to hear why you decided

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:39.389
upon that song for this benefit. Well, that song

00:44:39.389 --> 00:44:41.949
was just, I mean, that was the first song of

00:44:41.949 --> 00:44:44.730
Fountains of Wayne I ever heard on WFNX. And

00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:49.250
I was just, what is this? And I was instantly

00:44:49.250 --> 00:44:51.070
a Fountains of Wayne fan when I heard that song.

00:44:51.190 --> 00:44:54.070
So we were holed up during COVID, my husband

00:44:54.070 --> 00:44:59.469
and I. So he's, my husband, Clayton James, is

00:44:59.469 --> 00:45:08.010
a big synth nerd. There was no getting out to

00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:11.230
studios at the time, and he and I had been recording

00:45:11.230 --> 00:45:15.530
stuff for other COVID -related projects. So it

00:45:15.530 --> 00:45:20.769
was a natural choice for me to record this song

00:45:20.769 --> 00:45:24.050
with him. And this was the first song that we

00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:30.469
ever built from scratch together. And so his,

00:45:30.809 --> 00:45:34.829
all of those dark synthy choices, all of that

00:45:34.829 --> 00:45:40.070
was like... Totally Clay's production. And so

00:45:40.070 --> 00:45:44.429
I give him all the credit for the creative direction

00:45:44.429 --> 00:45:47.989
that we took for that song. Because I never would

00:45:47.989 --> 00:45:51.250
have, you know, I'm not a synth person at all.

00:45:51.489 --> 00:45:55.250
And I've only really come to appreciate the art

00:45:55.250 --> 00:45:57.909
form because of, you know, marrying this guy

00:45:57.909 --> 00:46:02.949
who was somewhere in the house. So, yeah, so

00:46:02.949 --> 00:46:06.550
that was how that happened. Well, it's an amazing

00:46:06.550 --> 00:46:08.809
version, and I'm going to post a link to that

00:46:08.809 --> 00:46:11.670
Bandcamp page over at MyWeeklyMixtape .com for

00:46:11.670 --> 00:46:14.110
anyone to go listen and support that compilation

00:46:14.110 --> 00:46:17.630
as well. So I have two young ladies. One is 14

00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:20.170
and one is 10. And growing up, both of them were

00:46:20.170 --> 00:46:23.230
obsessed with Doc McStuffins, with my older one

00:46:23.230 --> 00:46:25.670
even dressing up as her for Halloween. And I

00:46:25.670 --> 00:46:28.230
could probably still sing you the I Feel Better

00:46:28.230 --> 00:46:30.050
song to this day if you were to challenge me

00:46:30.050 --> 00:46:32.639
to that. I would love to know how this opportunity

00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.880
came about for you and your songwriting partner

00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.519
for this, Michelle Lewis, as well as what the

00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.780
challenges are in writing songs that are aimed

00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:42.900
at kids, but balancing the fact that adults like

00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:46.900
myself are watching these shows as well. Yeah,

00:46:46.900 --> 00:46:50.139
well, I mean, my career, this is where I have

00:46:50.139 --> 00:46:53.900
landed, is in animation. This is my day job.

00:46:54.019 --> 00:46:57.019
This is what I will hopefully do for the rest

00:46:57.019 --> 00:47:00.079
of my career. is writing songs for TV animation.

00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:04.599
I absolutely love it. Michelle and I met out

00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.960
here in LA and we became writing partners because

00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:11.340
we just like, as soon as we met, like we were

00:47:11.340 --> 00:47:14.280
just creative magnets and we had a million ideas

00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.139
and we were like, let's do this, let's do that,

00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:18.780
let's do that. And one of the things that we

00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:22.900
did in those early years as writing partners

00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:25.400
was we created and sold a couple of TV shows

00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.980
to Disney, a couple of kids shows. None of them

00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:32.159
went anywhere, but we became known at Disney

00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:35.000
as people who could write music for this space.

00:47:35.300 --> 00:47:39.079
And one of our sort of like our mantra is we

00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.340
do not write children's songs because we don't.

00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:44.159
I've never written a children's song in my life.

00:47:44.380 --> 00:47:48.019
I write songs that I would record for myself.

00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:52.159
The opportunity to write for Doc McStuffins came

00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:55.360
as an offer to actually consult on the music

00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:58.360
for that show. And again, like the people that

00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.599
they originally wanted to do it, it just wasn't

00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.719
working out, which placed me and Michelle in

00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:06.099
this amazing position to be able to take the

00:48:06.099 --> 00:48:08.719
job. So that was our first series that we had,

00:48:08.980 --> 00:48:12.000
even though a few years before that, I had done

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.139
music for Care Bears and then Letters to Cleo

00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:20.079
had done Generation O in 1999. And so like I'd

00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:22.880
have like a little experience doing a series,

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:25.940
but this was Michelle's and my first series.

00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:29.320
And we've been doing it ever since. You know,

00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:32.539
Chris Need, the creator of the show, had a very

00:48:32.539 --> 00:48:36.559
specific point of view that really informed our,

00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:40.199
that was really, you know, like our music adapted

00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:43.840
very well to her storytelling. And so I think

00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.619
the combination was what was very chewy and like

00:48:47.619 --> 00:48:50.199
we could really sink our teeth into her stories

00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:53.760
and write music that felt authentic to us. Well,

00:48:53.780 --> 00:48:55.800
now I want to talk about a project that was released

00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:58.840
earlier this year that's extremely unique. You

00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:02.300
and Tom Pulci co -wrote the music to an episode

00:49:02.300 --> 00:49:05.280
of Star Trek Strange New Worlds in season two.

00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:08.719
The episode is called Subspace Rhapsody and is

00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:12.619
a Star Trek musical. Now, I'm not a Trekkie by

00:49:12.619 --> 00:49:15.460
any means, but I'm very familiar with the movies

00:49:15.460 --> 00:49:18.960
and some of the series. Apologies to Star Trek

00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.730
fans listening. Please don't turn off. the episode

00:49:21.730 --> 00:49:24.989
now. But considering how passionate the Star

00:49:24.989 --> 00:49:28.670
Trek fan base is, what was your mindset when

00:49:28.670 --> 00:49:30.949
you and Tom sat down to write songs for this

00:49:30.949 --> 00:49:33.570
episode? Did you have a script or at least some

00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:36.329
working knowledge of the story? Or did they just

00:49:36.329 --> 00:49:39.070
say, hey, we're doing a Star Trek episode. Go.

00:49:39.409 --> 00:49:43.630
Right. Kind of. Well, Tom is a staff composer

00:49:43.630 --> 00:49:47.429
for Paramount. So he actually worked with Schlesinger

00:49:47.429 --> 00:49:51.110
on Crazy Ex -Girlfriend. So he like he's kind

00:49:51.110 --> 00:49:54.889
of involved in all of the TV music for Paramount

00:49:54.889 --> 00:49:58.710
or formerly CBS television. So when Tom when

00:49:58.710 --> 00:50:02.570
they were conceiving this now Strange New Worlds

00:50:02.570 --> 00:50:06.269
is a prequel to the Star Trek cinematic universe.

00:50:06.409 --> 00:50:09.829
And it's also kind of known for its humor. And

00:50:09.829 --> 00:50:12.329
it's you know, it really is a throwback to the

00:50:12.329 --> 00:50:15.469
storytelling wise to the the one off stories

00:50:15.469 --> 00:50:18.179
of the original Star Trek. I did not know this

00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:20.219
at the time. I know all of this now. I was not

00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:23.320
a Trekkie, although I have very warm memories

00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:26.380
of watching Star Trek with my dad on Channel

00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:31.019
38, WSBK in Boston in the 70s when I was a child.

00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:34.320
So like you, like we all, it's in the ether.

00:50:34.420 --> 00:50:36.340
Like, you know, the main characters, you know,

00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:40.420
the world in a general way. We all do. Tom was

00:50:40.420 --> 00:50:44.039
called in as a kind of like to give his thoughts

00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:48.659
on. how they could make this work. And so Tom

00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:52.179
gave his recommendations. He actually recommended

00:50:52.179 --> 00:50:56.019
me and Michelle and Dan. He was recommending

00:50:56.019 --> 00:50:59.619
teams that could do songs for it. Originally,

00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:01.579
they were just going to go out to a bunch of

00:51:01.579 --> 00:51:04.380
different teams for specific songs. And then

00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:06.860
at some point, they said to Tom, like, hey, would

00:51:06.860 --> 00:51:11.179
you want to do this? And Tom was like, great.

00:51:11.900 --> 00:51:16.099
do you want to do this? So he kind of like scrapped,

00:51:16.099 --> 00:51:18.320
they scrapped all the conversations that they

00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.460
had been having. And Tom called me and asked

00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:22.579
me if I would be interested in being his lyricist

00:51:22.579 --> 00:51:26.099
on this thing, which I was very interested in

00:51:26.099 --> 00:51:29.159
that. And then we ended up just writing all the

00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:32.760
songs together and collaborating on music and

00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:36.400
lyrics. And that's how it happened. It was very,

00:51:36.460 --> 00:51:40.059
very intense. Five weeks of just like... getting

00:51:40.059 --> 00:51:44.800
in the trenches a lot of i've never done i mean

00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:48.639
i've never really done research for a songwriting

00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:51.679
project at least not to this level but this was

00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.820
like it was we took it very you know where new

00:51:54.820 --> 00:51:57.239
england is we took it very seriously we wanted

00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.719
to get an a on the assignment you know and uh

00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:06.500
and but with also knowing how important canon

00:52:06.500 --> 00:52:11.389
was to fans of the show we could not dial any

00:52:11.389 --> 00:52:14.809
of it in we took it all very seriously and we

00:52:14.809 --> 00:52:17.610
had pages we knew what we were writing for as

00:52:17.610 --> 00:52:20.869
we were writing and the script was fleshed out

00:52:20.869 --> 00:52:24.610
more and more and more as we went and it certainly

00:52:24.610 --> 00:52:26.789
pays off at the end when all is said and done

00:52:26.789 --> 00:52:30.869
thank you this october letters to cleo released

00:52:30.869 --> 00:52:33.449
two brand new songs and i want to touch on those

00:52:33.449 --> 00:52:36.920
and play a clip of each First up is Badman, which

00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:40.159
musically has a very upbeat and ethereal vibe,

00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:42.920
but lyrically tells a completely different story.

00:53:14.380 --> 00:53:18.460
And It's Sunny Outside, which is musically soaring

00:53:18.460 --> 00:54:08.039
yet playful and contrasted lyrically. That's

00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:09.960
something we mentioned earlier in our discussion,

00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:11.780
and it's something I've always admired about

00:54:11.780 --> 00:54:13.900
Letters to Cleo because the music and lyrics

00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:16.800
often paint a different picture depending on

00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.760
how one chooses to listen to the song via the

00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:23.159
music or via the lyrics. You can enjoy Letters

00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:25.900
to Cleo's music on multiple levels. When you're

00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:28.579
writing these new songs, does the music or lyrical

00:54:28.579 --> 00:54:31.500
content come first? And how do you decide to

00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:34.579
create that, for lack of a better word, tension?

00:54:35.420 --> 00:54:39.099
between the music and the lyrics? I don't try.

00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:43.179
That's just how it comes out. My upbringing as

00:54:43.179 --> 00:54:46.300
like, just like listening to pop music on AM

00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:50.239
radio made me just like this relentlessly like

00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:54.860
melodic writer. So like my melodies are very

00:54:54.860 --> 00:54:57.940
sing -alongable. It's like in very sort of like,

00:54:58.059 --> 00:55:00.519
I just can't help it. Like my melodies are just

00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:06.409
very happy. And I never... I very rarely write

00:55:06.409 --> 00:55:10.889
about happy stuff. And if I do, it's like from

00:55:10.889 --> 00:55:13.429
the point of view of a character. But if I'm

00:55:13.429 --> 00:55:15.349
writing from the point of view of myself, it's

00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:19.170
always going to be miserable. That's just the

00:55:19.170 --> 00:55:23.889
way my subconscious mind and my conscious mind

00:55:23.889 --> 00:55:27.969
work together. Well, the end product is fantastic.

00:55:28.070 --> 00:55:31.019
So keep that up. And putting my news reporter

00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:33.659
cap on for one second, I'd be remiss if I didn't

00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:36.900
ask you if these singles were part of some larger

00:55:36.900 --> 00:55:40.179
forthcoming Letters to Cleo album, or is the

00:55:40.179 --> 00:55:43.340
band just focusing right now on releasing singles

00:55:43.340 --> 00:55:47.559
as inspiration strikes? You are very perceptive.

00:55:49.139 --> 00:55:53.940
This is Michael and I had been getting together

00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:57.340
before the pandemic for like. These 90 minute

00:55:57.340 --> 00:56:00.019
writing sessions. And then we would like Greg

00:56:00.019 --> 00:56:03.059
would send musical ideas to us from where he

00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:05.699
was. And we were sort of like working remotely

00:56:05.699 --> 00:56:08.980
before we had to work remotely. And so Michael

00:56:08.980 --> 00:56:11.480
and I would write for 90 minutes. And then a

00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:13.599
week later, we'd record for 90 minutes. And we

00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:15.900
kind of got in this flow of like once a week,

00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.599
just getting together with the idea that we were

00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:22.590
making a Clio record. And we were talking to

00:56:22.590 --> 00:56:25.610
Adam Schlesinger about producing it because he

00:56:25.610 --> 00:56:28.190
was the only person that we could imagine after

00:56:28.190 --> 00:56:32.070
Mike Deneen died of cancer six years ago, five

00:56:32.070 --> 00:56:35.849
years ago. And so Adam was going to produce the

00:56:35.849 --> 00:56:40.929
new record because who else would? And the pandemic

00:56:40.929 --> 00:56:43.389
hit while we were kind of like really hitting

00:56:43.389 --> 00:56:46.550
our stride with everything. And as you remember,

00:56:46.630 --> 00:56:50.119
where Adam died was one of the... He died on

00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:53.219
April 1st, I think, of 2020. It was very soon

00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:58.019
after the pandemic hit. And it just took the

00:56:58.019 --> 00:57:01.559
wind right out of our... And then the pandemic

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:06.659
itself was very disorienting. And so we kind

00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:10.059
of just put it on the back burner. And then this

00:57:10.059 --> 00:57:12.380
year, we're like, all right, let's pick these

00:57:12.380 --> 00:57:15.309
songs back up. Let's just try this again. And

00:57:15.309 --> 00:57:18.289
so these were the first songs that we had kind

00:57:18.289 --> 00:57:21.829
of written from that batch back that Adam was

00:57:21.829 --> 00:57:24.829
going to produce. And so, yes, there's stuff

00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:27.650
in the it's just it's more a matter of we've

00:57:27.650 --> 00:57:30.150
got an album's worth of material written. It's

00:57:30.150 --> 00:57:33.630
more about finding the time to really give it

00:57:33.630 --> 00:57:36.469
the attention that it deserves. And having Bill

00:57:36.469 --> 00:57:39.460
Leffler. produced this stuff was really a revelation.

00:57:39.699 --> 00:57:43.360
I love the sound of these songs. I've never heard

00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:45.599
a sound like this. I mean, it still sounds like

00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:50.820
Leo, but kind of different. And I love it. So

00:57:50.820 --> 00:57:53.340
I'm really looking forward now to working with

00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:56.699
Bill on more stuff. Well, I've been gushing over

00:57:56.699 --> 00:57:59.300
the last hour about my favorite songs from throughout

00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:01.199
your career. So now I want to turn the table

00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.719
for this last question just a little bit. If

00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:06.920
someone asked you to tell the story of Letters

00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:10.639
to Cleo using three songs from across the band's

00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:13.320
history, covers, originals, any of the music

00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.840
that you guys have performed, what three would

00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.599
you choose? My three favorite Cleo songs. Number

00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:22.360
one, Veda Very Shining, for sure. That's from

00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:28.460
Go. The What song? I love from Wholesale and

00:58:28.460 --> 00:58:31.940
then Here and Now. Well, Kay, this has been an

00:58:31.940 --> 00:58:34.800
absolute pleasure talking with you. Thank you

00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:37.039
so much for joining me on My Weekly Mixtape.

00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:39.559
Brian, thank you for all the great questions.

00:58:39.619 --> 00:58:41.599
It was a pleasure to speak with you as well.

00:58:42.139 --> 00:58:44.900
Remember, Mixtapers, head over to MyWeeklyMixtape

00:58:44.900 --> 00:58:47.539
.com to hear all the songs we've discussed in

00:58:47.539 --> 00:58:50.489
the episode. through the playlist embedded on

00:58:50.489 --> 00:58:53.809
the episode page. You can also head to myweeklymixtape

00:58:53.809 --> 00:58:57.010
.com to hear the full catalog of My Weekly Mixtape

00:58:57.010 --> 00:58:59.110
episodes. And if you like what you're hearing

00:58:59.110 --> 00:59:01.389
on the show, you can help me out by either telling

00:59:01.389 --> 00:59:03.869
a friend, leaving the show a five -star review

00:59:03.869 --> 00:59:06.789
wherever you're tuning in, or becoming a Patreon

00:59:06.789 --> 00:59:11.150
mixtaper at patreon .com forward slash myweeklymixtape.

00:59:11.429 --> 00:59:13.630
That's all for this week. Thanks again for listening.

00:59:13.710 --> 00:59:15.869
And until next time, enjoy the tunes.