Hey, this is Uncle Cracker, and you're listening
to My Weekly Mixtape with Brian Colburn. Make
sure you keep it out. I had a blast talking to
you. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast
that takes the classic mixtape approach to building
a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn.
Tonight, I'm thankful to be joined by Matthew
Schaefer, otherwise known the world over as Uncle
Cracker. Thank you so much for joining me on
My Weekly Mixtape. Thanks for having me, man.
I appreciate it. Well, considering your tenure
as a DJ in Kid Rock's Twisted Brown Trucker,
I'm extremely interested to hear how you answer
my first -time guest question, which is, what
does the word mixtape mean to you? Oh, man. Mixtape,
what does it mean to me? Probably different than
what it means to other people, I guess, maybe.
Well, when I was a kid, mixtapes were everything.
That was what I was listening to. It was a mix
of everything. It was what I put in my car. That's
what a mixtape was for me. Well, as I mentioned,
you started your career off as a DJ for Kid Rock's
Twisted Brown Trucker. Can you talk about how
that experience helped, for lack of a better
word, prepare you for what you would eventually
do as a solo artist? Well, yeah, I can talk on
it. I just should have paid more attention to
what was going on around me while I was DJing
for Kid Rock. I guess I should have paid more
attention to what he was doing so that I would
have been better prepared for my solo record.
But man, there was so much going on during that
time. The early Kid Rock days were just complete
mayhem. It was non -stop. It was cheap, and it
was a lot of everything. There was a lot of nights
I didn't know what the fuck we were doing out
there, but there were a lot of nights where it
finally made sense. You know, there was a lot
of aha moments, but still a lot of WTS moments,
you know? But I guess the one thing it did do,
it did prepare me. It thickens your skin, you
know? A lot of the business stuff, I watched
a lot of things get thrown at him. It was nice
to be able to, when you smelled it coming your
way, you could duck a little quicker than if
you hadn't seen it happen before, you know? But
that, and then just on a nightly basis, you know,
we were playing six and seven nights a week for
a really, really long time. I don't know how
Kid Rock kept his voice up, to be honest. Six
and seven nights, I mean, we were all shit bars
for no dough. That was a learning thing in itself,
you know. I wouldn't trade it for the world,
to be honest, but I learned a ton in a really
short time. You know, we had basically just been
touring like the Midwest, you know. We were a
Detroit act and we would play, you know, we would
hit Chicago. We would hit Cleveland. We would
hit whatever we could get to cheaply because
it still had to be cost effective. Nobody was
trying to incur any expense at all back then.
But, you know, while we would hit our pockets,
our Midwest pockets, it wasn't until that Devil
Without a Cause album draft that we went on tour
and didn't come home for three years. It was
a big step into a really unknown territory. And
we were all so young. Now you co -wrote a majority
of the songs on Devil Without a Cause, including
the hit Only God Knows Why, which I want to focus
on for a second because that song came out in
1998, which was the same year as Cher's Believe.
Now, obviously, we're talking two different genres
here, but both of these songs were some of the
first hit songs that I personally remember. using
auto -tune as a vocal tool in the studio. Now,
fast forward to 2023, I get surprised when I
hear a song that doesn't adopt auto -tune in
it. Were you in the studio sessions for the recording
of that song? And if so, can you shed some light
as to how that effect got introduced into the
song? Because that was breaking new ground at
the time. Yeah, I mean, the auto -tune thing
was very new at the time. In fact, Bumpy was
in the studio. He was the only cat we knew how
to use that auto -tune thing. Like, shoot, I
remember absolutely loving that song. And I remember
Bob wasn't really that comfortable with the song.
It just wasn't his key. And he was like, ah,
we can't really mess with that one. Because it
wasn't his key, it was just like he wasn't going
to turn that song in either. The song wouldn't
have been on the record. But I remember we were
in a studio. We were mixing the album at the
time. And I remember it was... Stephen Jenkins
from Third Eye Blind was in the other room, and
he had mentioned something about the autotune
thing, and then Blumping was like, yeah, man,
let's just try this thing. I just remember once
Bob heard that you could make it sound like a
vocoder, he was like, let's do that. Because
it wasn't anything different than records we
listened to, it was glorious. I just remember
it was used, and he just slammed it even harder,
and he was like, just do it. It'll sound like
zap. It was fun sounding at that point to him
at that point. It was about trying to make his
voice in tune or in key, right? He knew he wasn't
in tune or in key. But once you figure out what
you could do with that, you just slam it. Like,
let's make it sound cool. That's kind of how
that thing happened. So now I want to fast forward
to July 24th, 1999. 1 .15 in the afternoon. Kid
Rock and Twisted Brown Trucker take to the stage
at a still functioning Woodstock 99. And what
I feel is one of the most memorable performances
from that weekend, because that was a show for
what I felt like was a defining moment for Kid
Rock and Twisted Brown Trucker. 1 .15 in the
afternoon, the day was just getting started.
And to me. Between the opening with the bar with
you hyping the crowd up and the pits are going
insane and he's coming out wearing a full fur
coat in 110 degree weather with no clouds and
sunshine just battering down on the band. And
then he had the water bottles being thrown up
on stage. To me, this really helped propel the
entire group into kind of the mainstream. And
I would love to know what that experience was
like for you and the rest of the band that day.
That experience was, it was nuts. It was absolutely
nuts. It was another one of those WTF moments.
We had just come back from Europe before we got
to that Woodstock show. And it was just nuts.
I mean, we're just seeing people back, like Wyclef
Johns in the back, P. Diddy's in the back. And
like you said, it was 1 .15 in the afternoon.
It was absolutely bonkers. It was just something
in the air that afternoon too. It was very, it
was nuts. And the water bottle thing you're talking
about, I don't know when he told everybody to
do that. I just remember in my head thinking,
let's do that, man. It just seemed so dangerous
at the time. People were throwing shit all over
the place. It was bananas, though. It was bananas.
And you're right. There was something about that
show that was just monstrous. It was huge. I
don't think we've ever played one bigger or felt
that big. Yeah, that, I mean, just the video
alone was just insanity to watch. It was. Now,
coming out of that, you transitioned from DJing
and writing songs on Devil Without a Cause to
being front and center on your own original music
on 2000's Double Wide, which included the hit
singles Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, which was the first
solo song of yours that I ever heard, followed
up by the massive hit Follow Me. Can you talk
about what that transition was like for you,
going from being in the DJ role to being front
and center? It was bizarre because I was so comfortable
DJing. I was so comfortable in the back. I loved
the back. There was no pressure. There's no pressure
in the back. You don't have to address anybody.
You don't have to greet anybody. You don't have
to talk. You don't have to do nothing back there.
It's all on his shoulders. That's why I was saying
earlier, I should have paid more attention. Just
because the transition into a frontman, it didn't
happen for me. I'm not a big talker. We've probably
guessed that in about a minute now. It's not
a big talker. So it wasn't an easy transition
for me to go from the back to the front, but
I didn't have any choice either. Yeah. I mean,
look, the songs were hitting and in 2002, it
got even bigger for you with your album. No stranger
to shame. Your cover of Dobie Gray's drift away
was a huge radio staple that year. Can you talk
about whose idea was to cover that song and then
how you got. the man himself, to come on the
track with you. That's pretty incredible. So
when I was promoting that album, I would go by
these radio stations and do the morning drives,
and you'd go in there and do acoustic songs.
Well, the only song we were promoting, Follow
Me, at the time, was an acoustic song, and there
was nothing else really on the album that sounded
like it. But we had to do three songs when we
got to these radio stations. Kid Rock was the
one who was like, why don't you drift away, man?
And I would sit right in there. It's right in
your vocal range. And we did that. And then I
came to New York and did Scott Shannon's show.
A New York radio legend. When I grew up, he was
the Z Morning Zoo on Z100. But by that point,
he was WPLJ all the way. Yep. When I got done
with that, it was Scott Shannon that called the
president of my label and was like, if you guys
don't have Cracker to drift away for the next
album, you're screwing up. So, uh, you know,
and of course, you know, everybody regularly,
well, Scott Shannon says, you got to do it. You
got to do it. You know, and I did it. And, uh,
thank God Scott Shannon is Scott Shannon. He
was, uh, he was very instrumental in that song,
making it to the record. And I just, you know,
that was one of them things were about us. And
I've been like, ah, you're done. You're not going
to cover that song. But Scott Shannon said, you
know, it was, uh, the Bible. Of course. Of course.
Yeah. Legend, right? Always was the nicest cat
coming through the vegetation. Always made sure,
like, he was always very attentive. You know,
he didn't just phone it in on you. He was always
the cool one. Well, coming out of that, I want
to talk about my favorite track from No Stranger
to Shame. And it's something that you wrote with
Michael Bradford and Martin Tino Gross, a song
called Memphis Soul Song. It's a song that I've
personally covered in my acoustic shows throughout
the years. And it's one that my wife and I truly
bonded on when we first started dating. So I'd
love to hear the story about that tune from like
a lyrical perspective. So a lot of that was Tino.
Tino is the guy from Detroit. and uh known him
forever he's in a band called the hollow diablos
he's always had like crazy cool songs and he
had this memphis soul song idea and uh he gave
it to me one day and me and rapper went in the
studio and just kind of riffed on it and it was
kind of made to be like an ode to memphis and
uh more the old stack stuff but it took a big
turn in the studio it got prettier studio obviously
he does you know but without tino mike rapper
the song wouldn't even happen but it was uh Paying
homage to stacks and though even the video and
went by the stacks. Mm -hmm Great song. I love
there's one of my favorite didn't work And I'd
love to send you this version. We have a natural
Jordan airs to my hominid We had a version of
it because we had no I wanted to do a remix of
it a different thing just cuz and Then we got
the actual Jordan airs doing harmonies on a remix.
It's so dope Man, I'm just sitting here picturing
what it must sound like, and it's now officially
a mission of mine to hear that version. Oh, they
just pop so nice. And I tried getting the Jordan
Air in that video, but it was hard. You know,
one guy had a haircut appointment that he couldn't
get rid of, and we were filming some of it in
a bar, and it was secular. One guy, he couldn't
do it. I learned a lot from them not being able
to do the video. I learned a lot. Wow. Everybody's
got a lot of shit at 100%. Well, the last song
from no stranger that I want to touch on is one
that I enjoyed when I first heard the album,
but became much more profound for me over the
years because my wife and I are parents to two
lovely young ladies. And that would be letter
to my daughters. You co -wrote this song with
outlaw country icon David Allen Co. And I've
spent many years trying to find out kind of the
story behind how this came together. And now
I finally get to ask you in person, what was
David's role in that song? And how did you guys
come up with that? Because that one really hits.
You feel that one. You know what? One of my favorite
songs years ago in the earlier Kid Rock days,
somehow. Kid Rock was in an interview. I don't
know if it was Rolling Stone or something like
that. It might have been Rolling Stone, but he
was in an interview and he was talking about
David Allen Coe. But he had dropped David Allen
Coe's name. Well, when we were somewhere down
in Texas on tour and David Allen Coe's people
had reached out. And at the time, I think David's
son and him were having problems. He had a teenage
son, but I guess his son had came to him with
this article. Like, look, Kid Rock is talking
about his article. So it really was an excuse
for them to talk and get along. It was a good
spot for him to be in. So he reached out to the
Kid Rock thing. And then we met him down in Texas.
And David and I really, really hit it off and
became good buddies. And I just happened to be
finishing my album when I met him. So I didn't
have any room to do anything with. But we decided
we would try and figure something out. And I'd
love to have something. The guy is one of the
greatest writers. My time, I guess, you know,
would be my time. I mean, this stuff was older
and, you know, legendary. But of this time, I
think he's just a great writer. Regardless of
the songs, you know, he's got them so well. And
he and I became good boys. He kind of mentored
me a little bit, you know, when my first record
came out. You know, I'd be like, man, motherfuckers,
they just never write nothing good. And he's
like, man, you can't read better than that shit.
He's like, this is what's going to happen. You're
going to read something that's good. But if you're
going to believe the good, you got to believe
the bad. But don't fuck with none of that shit.
Long time ago, about three beings and that type
of stuff. Profound. Yeah. Don't believe none
of that shit. Fast forward to 2004 from one country
artist to another. You recorded a pair of songs
with Kenny Chesney last night again from your
72 Degrees and Sunny album and the hit When the
Sun Goes Down, which appears on. kenny's album
of the same name can you talk about the significance
of those two collaborations for you as an artist
because i feel like it really helped introduce
you to a whole new audience in the country world
that may not have heard your earlier albums because
there wasn't at the time so much of a country
rock pop crossover appeal as there is now totally
the kenny collaboration came out of nowhere to
be honest i think i was just coming off the road
up there's no stranger record and uh kid rock
called me he goes hey man kenny chesney called
me and asked me if i thought uh you would go
do uh he kenny was playing his first stadium
show and it was in his hometown of oxford tennessee
he was playing neyland stadium and it was you
know obviously big for any artist and he he was
trying to uh he was putting together just some
special guests you know to add to the show or
whatnot So Kid Lagos was like, I don't know,
call him when I ask him. So he's like, I gave
him your number. He's going to be calling about
it. And I was like, I didn't know who it was,
you know, at the time. I just wasn't listening
to any radio, let alone, you know, country radio
or anything like that. You know, we'd been on
the road so long. I mean, what DRL was gospel,
you know, at the time. I just wasn't in any other
loop but our own bubble, right? But he called
and he was really cool on the phone. And he sent
a jet. So I was, of course, like, yeah, man.
Why not? I do believe I can hang out with y 'all
for a minute, right? I felt like Eddie Murphy
in Trading Places. He sent the jet, right? Yeah.
But very cool. And he and I hit it off, too.
But I went and did a couple songs at New England
Stadium. And then he was like, man, I got this
track I think you'd be great on. And that was
When the Sun Goes Down. He had to have that song.
And it was funny. I was like, man, well, I'd
be dope. I'm like, I'm in, you know? And then
like, I remember some time went by and I hadn't
heard nothing about it. Nothing from him. He
had come through Detroit on tour and called me.
That's when I come out and do it. But ended up
doing when the sun goes down after I pestered
him a little while, like, Hey man, we can do
that. In my mind, I didn't have much time left
before I was back on, on the road again. So I
was like trying to knock out any piece I could,
you know? Back then you could only do an album
once every couple of years or so, you know, not
like you can do today. So if any chance to get
in the studio and do something new, I was all
over it. Cause it didn't happen a lot. Right.
Didn't have a lot. You didn't have to do a record
label album cycles. So yeah, that was that. And
then, uh, last night again, I was doing my third
album and I was in Nashville cutting a couple
of these tracks and it was funny because I didn't
have that song written. And then, uh, Kenny was
like, Hey man, I'm going to come by the studio.
Let's do a song or whatever. And I was like,
Oh, he's coming by the studio. I don't even have
a song like for him to kind of, but I know he's
coming by. So me and Bradford wrote that song
in like 20 minutes before he got there. Wow.
Yeah. I love it. It's definitely not one that
people hear or have heard, you know, it's definitely
not one I play at the shows or live or like that,
but it's one of my favorites ever. It's a great
tune. Thank you. The next album I want to focus
on is, 2009's Happy Hour, which was produced
by Rob Cavallo. I'd like to talk about one of
my personal favorites from the album, which is
a mashup song you did called Live in the Dream,
which I was always shocked that it wasn't chosen
as a single because a few years earlier in 2007,
Kid Rock's All Summer Long became this massive
summer anthem for the year with mashing up Werewolves
of London, All Summer Long, and Night Moves.
Can you talk about how your original song and
Whitesnake's Here I Go Again came together because
when I first listened to the album, I had to
stop it. I'm like, oh man, this has a Here I
Go Again vibe. And then in the middle of the
song, when you broke out into it, I was like,
whoa, this is what I'm talking about. This is
amazing. And it blew my mind. It's always been
one of my favorites. Well, somebody sent me that
mashup. I think it was through my manager, Josh
Abraham. He had written it with a couple of cats.
And then it got to me and I changed some things.
Oh, I remember a caballo cut in the studio. He
had a ball with it. It was just a, that was up
his alley. And you know what? We did think that
should have been a single. We wanted it to probably
be the third single. But the only problem with
that was, is we needed the second single to work
to get to the third thing. Right. And the second
single didn't work. It was, well, I had had kid
rock. I'm not single. It was a song called Good
to Be Me. Yeah, we have a second thing. Well,
that's a smile. Well, it was too twangy for adult
contemporary stations. So they asked us to give
them a mix without all the, some of the twanginess.
Well, he just went in there and we kind of did
like a, you know, let's get rid of some of the
twangy guitars. Let's kind of dig in a little
bit. Let's make it more sound like the squeeze,
you know, something like that. Who I love by
the way, the squeeze. I thought it was fresh,
but then the kid back didn't like the remix of
it. So he didn't want them. But then at radio,
you know, we're having them stop playing in three
minutes. And then we just looked like the two
-stone top. So it just kind of fell apart on
the second single. And then we didn't even talk
about a third single. It was just, it was all
kinds of drama. I was going to say, that's a
shame because the first single, we obviously
can't talk about Happy Hour without bringing
up Smile, which was a crossover pop and country
hit that you wrote alongside of J .T. Harding,
Blair Daly, and Jeremy Bowes. Can you talk about
the longevity of this track? Because, I mean,
to this day, it's still used in pop culture,
TV shows, commercials. I've been to weddings
where I've seen mothers and sons dance to this
song. It's just all -encompassing, which is nearly
impossible to do in three minutes, and you accomplished
it. So that song, you know, it was big at adult
contemporary, and it took 10 months to run that
thing off the chart, that adult contemporary.
which is almost a year, obviously, but that's
a long time. And then the program director at
WYCD in Detroit, Tim, great guy. I had never
met him prior to this, but he took it upon himself
to take the adult contemporary version of the
song and play it on his country station, which
is the eighth largest country station in the
country at the time. Well, it ran so good for
him, I think it started researching, and he called
the president of my label and was like, listen,
I just played this, you know, on my country station
at work. This thing's a monster. You guys are
dumb if you don't take this to country radio.
And at the time, they had signed a thing with
Zac Brown at the time, and there was this whole
country team, bigger picture, out of Nashville
that was working the Zac Brown radio. So there
was an Atlantic Records thing and a bigger picture
thing. So they didn't have the resources like
they did then, so they utilized it. Otherwise,
everybody would have just been sitting around
not doing anything. Zach, I mean, was back in
the studio at the time. So yeah, they took Smile,
the Red Country video, and then we got lucky
with that. And like you said, just twice, you
know, one at pop, one at country. Kind of sweet.
And that transitioned you into your first full
-length country album, which was 2012's Midnight
Special, released on Sugar Hill Records. You
wrote the lion's share of the music along with
Smile co -writer J .T. Harding, including songs
like Nobody Sad on a Saturday Night and I'll
Be There. Those are two of my favorites from
the album. Can you talk about what the transition
was like for you to release a full -length country
album versus... the multi -genre mix that you
had incorporated into all of your prior releases,
even going as far back as to your time with Kid
Rock. It was different, but, you know, I talked
a little bit about the Smile thing and then the
bigger picture radio team taking it to Country
Radio Nashville. Well, this is a whole different
ballgame. And when Atlantic decided they were
going to let me go in and cut the Country album,
you know, all these... pieces to this puzzle
were in place. But by the time, you know, I had
finished this record, all those pieces had fallen
apart. And there was no more, Atlantic didn't
have any, they didn't have the resources to take
me to country radio again, you know, with this
country album I had just made. So I think everybody
was kind of just sitting there like, ah, now
what do we do? And I was like, well, I know what
we do. You guys let me go. You know, I've been
here 14 years. I don't even know anybody at the
label anymore. They just let me go and buy this
record back and take it to Sugar Hill and let
them put it out. Nice guy over there. Everything's
nice and hot. It was different going from a major
to an indie. It was not something I had done
before, but there still wasn't any real pressure.
I wasn't looking at it like I was trying to dip
into the country game. I mean, we still pulled
everybody on a muscle shoals to cut that record.
I wasn't, you know, you know. it was uh one of
my best sounding albums for sure my favorite
record to date you know as a whole i loved it
i couldn't be more proud of that record still
but it was cool it was just it was the time in
my life though when i had spent like i said 14
years at atlantic lava records and this i was
out of that deal and and i was into this sugar
hill thing you know which really was a great
time for me about wow i was going through the
water it was great I'd say that like that, but
it was a whole different time. It was all kinds
of different, very liberating in all kinds of
fronts. You know, I was released from a marriage,
released from a record label, released. It was
just one of the good times. I wish the album
would have been better, you know, I guess commercially,
but it was a great album. I completely agree.
There's a lot of fantastic songs on it. And obviously,
a lot has changed in the music industry since
Midnight Special dropped in 2012, especially
in terms of how fans consume music. Since then,
you've released a number of singles over the
years, but there hasn't been a full length album.
However, in 2023, so far, you've released three
new singles, Reason to Drink, Sweet 16, and most
recently, Cruisin' Altitude. Has the tactical
shift in the music industry changed your approach
to releasing new music? I guess, yes. Just being
able to release whatever, whenever. It took me
a long time to decide, I guess, what we wanted
to do or if we were going to do that way. But
at the same time, I'm watching these kids peel
off records like they're nothing. Songs. You
know, they go, oh, got a new one. Let's just
drop it next week. Which I used to beg my label
to do years ago. Like, can I go in and do a new
record now? When you wanted more content. Nope,
nope, gotta wait. Album Cycle's gonna take two
years. We need to plan seven months in advance
for this and that. We gotta find a release date,
and I don't know if we got one yet for next year.
Just everything was different. But just to be
able to drop one every 40 days, just goes with
the release. Well, I have to put my news reporter
cap on for just one question. Since you have
released three singles in 2023 thus far, are
those songs maybe part of an, I don't know, larger,
forthcoming, full -length album that you maybe
could shed some light on? Or are you going to
continue to do the singles route moving forward?
We're going to do a full album. 2024, I want
to say it's going to be like April, maybe March,
April or something like that. I forget what we'll
talk about date -wise, but there's a full album
we're going to drop then. I just kind of finished
because I just reviewed 15, so I'll make sure
there's a few more behind it, but that'll be
fine. Well, out of all the songs we've discussed
today, I'm embedding a playlist over at myweeklymixtape
.com so that way listeners can check out all
the songs we've been talking about. But in the
true spirit of mixtape collaborations, I'd love
for you to close out this playlist with three
songs that you feel truly encapsulate Uncle Cracker
as an artist. They don't have to be the hits.
You can go as deep into your catalog as you like,
but three songs to kind of close out our discussion
today that you feel are important to your musical
legacy. Saturdays, I would say. The first song
off Double Wise. Who We Are off of Midnight Special.
I hope it's the last track off there. And, man,
further down the road off of W2 and Funny. Nice.
Well, Matt, this has been an absolute pleasure
talking music with you. Thank you so much for
joining me on my weekly mixtape. Oh, man, thanks
for having me. I appreciate it. Anything I can
sit around and talk about myself. I do appreciate
it, man. Thank you so much. And remember, mixtapers,
you can head to myweeklymixtape .com to hear
all the songs we've discussed in this mix through
the playlist embedded on the episode page, as
well as to check out the full catalog of my weekly
mixtape episodes. And if you like what you're
hearing on the show, you can help me out by either
telling a friend. leaving the show a five -star
review wherever you're tuning in, or becoming
a Patreon mixtape or at patreon .com forward
slash myweeklymixtape. That's all for this week.
Thanks again for listening, and until next time,
enjoy the tunes.