WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600 Hi, this is Desmond Child and you're listening 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:18.859 to My Weekly Mixtape with Brian Colburn. Welcome 00:00:18.859 --> 00:00:21.440 to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast that takes the 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:24.559 classic mixtape approach to building a modern 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.429 playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn. Tonight, 00:00:27.550 --> 00:00:30.710 I'm beyond excited to welcome one of my favorite 00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:34.250 songwriters on the planet to the program, a man 00:00:34.250 --> 00:00:37.549 responsible for so many of the great tunes that 00:00:37.549 --> 00:00:40.530 have lived on my personal mixtapes over the years. 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:43.909 It's almost staggering. And that is the one and 00:00:43.909 --> 00:00:46.649 only Desmond Child. Desmond, thank you so much 00:00:46.649 --> 00:00:49.369 for joining me on my weekly mixtape. Thank you 00:00:49.369 --> 00:00:52.189 for inviting me. This is great. Well, I'd like 00:00:52.189 --> 00:00:54.549 to start by asking you the question I ask all 00:00:54.549 --> 00:00:57.619 of my first time guests. And that is, what does 00:00:57.619 --> 00:01:02.479 the word mixtape mean to you? Well, mixtape is 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:07.319 sort of a modern idea that comes from DJs, kind 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:09.599 of going from one song to the other. Sometimes 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:13.019 they have the same tempo, so they mix them together 00:01:13.019 --> 00:01:15.780 as they transition from one to the other. So 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:18.799 then it became this thing of the collection of 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.939 your favorite songs. That's how that came about. 00:01:22.569 --> 00:01:25.750 Well, you recently released a new memoir entitled 00:01:25.750 --> 00:01:28.730 Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big Life, which 00:01:28.730 --> 00:01:30.609 I'm sure is going to be coming up a lot through 00:01:30.609 --> 00:01:33.069 our conversation tonight. So without further 00:01:33.069 --> 00:01:35.310 ado, let's just start diving into some of those 00:01:35.310 --> 00:01:38.829 big songs. The first song I'd like to talk about 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:41.750 is House of Fire, a song you wrote with Alice 00:01:41.750 --> 00:01:46.469 Cooper and Joan Jett for Alice's 1989 album Trash. 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:51.549 However, in 2014, it surfaced as a bonus track 00:01:51.549 --> 00:01:56.090 on Bon Jovi's deluxe edition of New Jersey. When 00:01:56.090 --> 00:01:59.409 you're writing songs, do you write with an artist 00:01:59.409 --> 00:02:03.099 in mind, or is this an example of... House of 00:02:03.099 --> 00:02:06.000 Fire is a Desmond Childs song first and foremost, 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.099 but let's see where it fits with a few artists 00:02:09.099 --> 00:02:11.819 before the decision is made. Because to me, both 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:14.520 versions of this song are amazing, and I think 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:16.500 that speaks volume to the strength of the song 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:19.300 in the first place. Are they identical lyric 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:22.039 -wise and everything? The main verses and choruses 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.439 are identical, yes, but there are some different 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:26.819 nuances throughout the song and a little bridge 00:02:26.819 --> 00:02:29.180 in the middle that is different in the Bon Jovi 00:02:29.180 --> 00:02:32.719 version. I need to check that out. This is how 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:35.759 the song began. I was co -writing with Joan Jett 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:39.300 and I had the title House of Fire, you know, 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:42.580 and it just seemed like so Joan Jett to me. And 00:02:42.580 --> 00:02:45.520 then we started working on it. But in the end, 00:02:45.539 --> 00:02:48.520 she says, I don't think this is for me. And so, 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:52.539 you know, it was like House of Fire, House of 00:02:52.539 --> 00:02:56.259 Fire, you know, like it seems like right in the 00:02:56.259 --> 00:03:00.419 same wheelhouse of I love rock and roll. Yeah. 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.680 I hate myself for loving you. Right. It's just 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.000 that kind of droney kind of girl gang kind of 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.319 vocal. Right. And so she wasn't taken to it. 00:03:12.379 --> 00:03:15.860 And so then I think I played it for John and 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:18.900 Richie and they were like, no, I mean, you know, 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:22.000 it's like Joan Jett. I mean, it already has like, 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:24.919 you know, another writer on it and she's a girl 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:28.000 and kind of thing. And it's like. No, but you're 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.840 not understanding. Joe Jed is not just a girl, 00:03:30.900 --> 00:03:35.219 you know, like she's like an amazing like boy 00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:39.599 girl, right? And so then, you know, I just dropped 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.280 it and then I brought it to Alice Cooper. He 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.699 loved it because, you know, it has that hell 00:03:44.699 --> 00:03:47.960 and brimstone kind of thing, house of fire. It's 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.139 like a world Alice Cooper would live in. So because 00:03:51.139 --> 00:03:54.939 I had started with Joan, I brought in Alice and 00:03:54.939 --> 00:03:58.120 we finished the song. I had no idea that John 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:01.539 and Richie kind of didn't let it go. It is a 00:04:01.539 --> 00:04:05.139 demo version on the deluxe two CD edition of 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:09.439 New Jersey. Yeah. I don't know how it is. And 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:12.300 they worked on Trash, but they didn't hear the 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:14.599 other songs. So they didn't know that I was still 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:18.519 developing House of Fire. So it's one of those 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:22.579 kind of faux pas. And really, they should have 00:04:22.579 --> 00:04:27.160 grabbed it from the beginning. I hate myself 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.939 for loving you. He just listened to the song 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:33.199 and he just said, fuck you. And he walked away 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.199 from me. And I think he liked it. Yeah, I'd say 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:40.560 so. He said, why'd you write that with her? And 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:45.180 I said, well, I co -wrote it with her. It's like 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:49.839 the day one that I met her. It's like, ah, you 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.300 just walked away. Because it would have been 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:58.680 so perfect for him, right? For Bon Jovi, it has 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:02.720 that kind of bratty thing, right? Definitely, 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.660 yeah. And so somehow, you know, I'm sort of the 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:09.579 virus that keeps infecting everybody with these 00:05:09.579 --> 00:05:14.040 hooks. Well, while we're on the topic of Alice 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:17.319 Cooper, Trash was kind of a comeback album for 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:20.319 Alice, even though at the time I was young enough, 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:23.259 as were a lot of people my age. To have that 00:05:23.259 --> 00:05:26.459 album be my introduction to Alice Cooper, which 00:05:26.459 --> 00:05:28.939 I have to add, my father took full advantage 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:31.500 of because as soon as I told my dad that I was 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:34.230 a fan of this. quote unquote, new artist, Alice 00:05:34.230 --> 00:05:37.449 Cooper. He took me on a journey back through 00:05:37.449 --> 00:05:40.829 his older albums. But this echoes a similar situation 00:05:40.829 --> 00:05:44.170 for you with Aerosmith and their 1987 album, 00:05:44.290 --> 00:05:47.449 Permanent Vacation, which for them was a comeback 00:05:47.449 --> 00:05:50.629 album. Was this a common situation you found 00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:53.529 yourself in through the 80s? Or is this comeback 00:05:53.529 --> 00:05:56.750 album, Desmond Child Connection, more happenstance? 00:05:57.350 --> 00:06:00.069 Well, I think what happened was, you know, I 00:06:00.069 --> 00:06:04.029 had My first big hit with a rock band was Kiss, 00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:08.470 which I collaborated with Paul Stanley. And we 00:06:08.470 --> 00:06:11.850 wrote, I Was Made For Loving You. And so that 00:06:11.850 --> 00:06:15.490 was such a huge global success that then bands 00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:19.670 were like, well, the A &R guys, like John Klodner, 00:06:19.810 --> 00:06:23.550 were kind of saying, oh, you know. And oh, then 00:06:23.550 --> 00:06:28.029 Bon Jovi met me through Paul Stanley. So that's 00:06:28.029 --> 00:06:30.620 the connection there. And then we had instant 00:06:30.620 --> 00:06:33.259 success with You Give Love a Bad Name and Living 00:06:33.259 --> 00:06:36.519 on a Prayer. And so then John Klonner called 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:40.160 me because he wanted me to co -write with Steven 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.120 Tyler and Joe Perry for their next record. They 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.819 had done a record called Dunwick Mirrors. And 00:06:45.819 --> 00:06:49.319 it wasn't a commercial success. And so it seemed 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.939 like I was the golden boy of the hour. So they 00:06:52.939 --> 00:06:55.779 thought, well, this is a great guy that you can 00:06:55.779 --> 00:06:58.199 put in a room and he'll collaborate with the 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:00.060 artist. And they come up with something good. 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:04.740 So that's how that started. And with Aerosmith, 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:08.279 it was very reluctantly agreed for me to come 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.519 and try to work with them. And the first day 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.120 we got together, we wrote Dude Looks Like a Lady. 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:19.040 So I'm sort of good on a first date. Then it 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.050 gets complicated. I was going to say, how do 00:07:22.050 --> 00:07:25.089 you establish that rapport with an artist? Because 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:28.029 songwriting is something that is, at least for 00:07:28.029 --> 00:07:30.370 me, something that you have to be very open and 00:07:30.370 --> 00:07:33.410 very vulnerable in to kind of dive into where 00:07:33.410 --> 00:07:36.329 the song is going to take you lyrically. How 00:07:36.329 --> 00:07:39.269 do you instantly establish this rapport with 00:07:39.269 --> 00:07:42.649 these artists? Well, you said two different things. 00:07:42.990 --> 00:07:45.610 One is how do I establish the rapport? But you 00:07:45.610 --> 00:07:48.689 also said you have to be vulnerable. Not with 00:07:48.689 --> 00:07:52.139 these people. There's no vulnerable. There's 00:07:52.139 --> 00:07:55.300 no vulnerable with stadium, like, hetero rock 00:07:55.300 --> 00:07:58.980 bands. That's the opposite of what they want 00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:03.420 to be. Vulnerable. I mean, the Kiss way is, you 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:06.259 know, the protagonist, who, you know, is either 00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:09.540 Gene or Paul, they always have to be the winners. 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:14.420 The victors. They can never be the victim of 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:18.220 whatever they're singing about. So, that kind 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:20.930 of... We're going to make it. You know, we are 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:23.990 the champions. That kind of feeling is all through 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:26.569 their music. And that's why, you know, young 00:08:26.569 --> 00:08:31.149 adolescent boys love them because it gave them 00:08:31.149 --> 00:08:34.149 a kind of a superpower. You know, this kind of 00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:37.149 rock music, you know, and the sound of the guitar 00:08:37.149 --> 00:08:39.710 is being so electric and all that kind of stuff. 00:08:40.029 --> 00:08:44.110 And so the vulnerable parts, you know, that's 00:08:44.110 --> 00:08:47.129 more like, you know, when you're writing ballads, 00:08:47.149 --> 00:08:49.500 I guess. I mean, I guess that applied to the 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:52.879 song Angel, you know, which was the second song 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.080 I wrote with Steven Tyler. Joe didn't come to 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.860 the session. It was the next day after we wrote 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:02.019 Doodle It Looks Like a Lady. And, you know, we 00:09:02.019 --> 00:09:05.720 sat by ourselves in this big warehouse where 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:08.379 they were rehearsing. And I said, well, tell 00:09:08.379 --> 00:09:10.740 me what's going on with you. What have you been 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:12.679 going through and all this kind of stuff? And 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:16.549 he's a kind of oversharer. And so he started 00:09:16.549 --> 00:09:18.950 telling me about his struggles with substance 00:09:18.950 --> 00:09:22.210 abuse and how he had gotten himself clean and 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:25.090 sober and that he had met this wonderful woman, 00:09:25.250 --> 00:09:28.570 Teresa, who he married, and that she was his 00:09:28.570 --> 00:09:34.169 angel. And so he sings, I'm alone, and I don't 00:09:34.169 --> 00:09:36.909 know if I can face the night. That's kind of 00:09:36.909 --> 00:09:39.029 vulnerability. Yeah, that's where I was going. 00:09:39.370 --> 00:09:44.870 And so we wrote the song. And it was a hit as 00:09:44.870 --> 00:09:48.149 well. But it was never one of Stephen's favorite 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:51.470 songs. And they were very reluctant to perform 00:09:51.470 --> 00:09:55.629 it because they felt it was too pop for their 00:09:55.629 --> 00:09:59.570 audience, for their brand. Even though later 00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:02.929 on, we wrote Crazy and we wrote What It Takes. 00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:07.090 Those songs were tougher sounding. And so there's 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:10.690 always that. I had gotten together with John. 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.080 by Jovi and Richie Sambora for the New Jersey 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.980 album after we had all that success with Slippery 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:22.039 When Wet. And we wrote a bunch of songs as one 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.639 does, and then they pick the ones that fit the 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:27.220 best. There was a song we wrote called We All 00:10:27.220 --> 00:10:31.179 Sleep Alone that was for that record. And John 00:10:31.179 --> 00:10:34.879 said, you know what? This is too moody, too sensitive, 00:10:35.139 --> 00:10:39.779 too slow. This is like a chick song. And I was 00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:41.820 working with Cher and I said, well, do you mind 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:44.580 if I play this for Cher? And she loved it and 00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:47.720 it fit her persona perfectly because she was 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.779 like tabloid queen. So you saw her jumping in 00:10:50.779 --> 00:10:54.460 and out of relationships. So the song has this 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:57.480 ominous feeling and it says, sooner or later, 00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:01.940 we all sleep alone, meaning in the ground. So 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:05.720 it's like a song about loneliness and about you 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.600 have to... You've got to be strong when you're 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:16.000 out on your own. Sooner or later, we all sleep 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.480 alone. Right? That wasn't my best Cher imitation. 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:24.779 But the sound of the words fit her tone perfectly. 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:30.879 And she made a gorgeous video of that song. And 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:35.970 John and Richie. co -produced that with me, I 00:11:35.970 --> 00:11:39.710 think, for Cher. I think they played on it. The 00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:41.789 band by Jovi played on it and John and Richie 00:11:41.789 --> 00:11:45.149 were the co -producers. And we also cut a second 00:11:45.149 --> 00:11:47.809 song, which was my obsession with a song called 00:11:47.809 --> 00:11:52.210 Bang Bang. Bang, bang, he shot me down. Bang, 00:11:52.210 --> 00:12:00.149 bang, my baby shot me down. And so, we reimagined 00:12:00.149 --> 00:12:09.419 it as this heavy rock song like... I was five 00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:13.879 and he was six, laid on horses made of sticks. 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:16.539 But the original song was only like two minutes 00:12:16.539 --> 00:12:20.080 long. So I realized the song only had one verse. 00:12:20.539 --> 00:12:23.820 So I drove down to Palm Springs and met with 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.200 Sadi Bado, who had written the song originally 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.250 and solely wrote it. And I asked him to write 00:12:30.250 --> 00:12:32.429 a second verse and he agreed to do it. And I 00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:34.470 just sat in the room while he came up with it, 00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:37.049 you know, and then I took the lyrics with me 00:12:37.049 --> 00:12:39.549 and we went and we cut it. How cool is that? 00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:43.350 That's amazing. And so, you know, last night, 00:12:43.509 --> 00:12:46.669 I'm in Palm Springs right now on vacation and 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:49.470 I was walking down the street and I saw like 00:12:49.470 --> 00:12:52.210 the Walk of Fame and there was a star, you know, 00:12:52.210 --> 00:12:55.039 they have stars on the Walk of Fame. And I like 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.620 stumbled upon Sonny Bono's star. It was like, 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:01.059 wow. You know, and then there was like a space 00:13:01.059 --> 00:13:03.679 and then came another star. So there's like enough 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:08.120 space for me to have my star. And so I'm going 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.000 to find out about it, you know, because I want 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.679 to be next to Sonny Bono. You know, it reminds 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.500 me about when Hugh Hefner, when Marilyn Monroe 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:20.139 died, they put her in this mausoleum, right? 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.960 At the edge of Brentwood, you know, over there. 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.059 in Santa Monica. I forget the name of it, Fourslot 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:30.720 or something. And he bought the niche on top 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.980 of hers because he said, that's where I want 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:37.279 to be buried because people throughout time will 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.460 always go and pay their respects at the tomb 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:42.460 of Marilyn Monroe. They're not going to do that 00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:45.980 for me, but they'll see that I'm buried on top 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:50.120 of her. I want to say that I'm on top of Marilyn 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.899 Monroe. I think that's where they buried him. 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:58.940 He might have changed his scheme, but I know 00:13:58.940 --> 00:14:01.919 that story. So I want my star to be next to Sonny 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.940 Bono's. How's that? All right. Well, while we 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.740 were just talking about John and Richie, obviously 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:11.159 you talked about the songs you wrote with them 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.940 for Slippery When Wet and New Jersey. I want 00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:16.000 to actually talk about two songs that are two 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.159 of my favorites that are on later albums that 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.299 I've always told people I feel don't get. as 00:14:22.299 --> 00:14:25.480 much love as the songs from Slippery in New Jersey. 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:28.899 And the first one being the title track to 1992's 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:32.759 Keep the Faith, which introduced almost a new 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.159 musical dynamic with the band in this almost 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:38.360 gospel -esque type sound. And I would love to 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.480 know how that flavor came through in that track 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.620 and how it was decided to kind of bring that 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:47.100 to Bon Jovi, because that was kind of a new sound 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:51.860 for them. Well, I had moved to Miami and sort 00:14:51.860 --> 00:14:54.740 of got involved with Latin music because I'm 00:14:54.740 --> 00:14:57.620 Cuban. So I came home to Miami Beach where I 00:14:57.620 --> 00:14:59.740 had gone to high school and everything. And I 00:14:59.740 --> 00:15:02.899 was going to these salsa clubs and learning how 00:15:02.899 --> 00:15:05.179 to dance salsa and everything. It was a lot of 00:15:05.179 --> 00:15:09.639 fun. And it was around the time that I met Ricky 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.700 Martin and had like huge hit Live in La Vida 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:16.610 Loca and The Cup of Life. And so for that album, 00:15:16.730 --> 00:15:19.269 you know, I met with John and Richie and Richie 00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:20.990 was still with Heather Locklear and they lived 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.250 in Thousand Oaks or something. And this gorgeous 00:15:24.250 --> 00:15:26.529 house up on this hilltop. I mean, it was like 00:15:26.529 --> 00:15:29.470 a movie set. Everything was beige, you know, 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:32.629 like very chic. And John said, you know, I love 00:15:32.629 --> 00:15:35.629 that Vita Loca, like let's write something that 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:40.190 has a beat like that. And so I think that's how 00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:44.120 it kind of developed. Not so much gospel. But 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.759 it ended up being that way because I think they 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:49.980 did add a kind of gospel feeling to it. And also, 00:15:50.059 --> 00:15:54.340 Tico's Cuban as well. I'm half Cuban. So there's 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:57.779 that Cuban connection, that Latin beat is kind 00:15:57.779 --> 00:16:00.740 of going through it. So that's how that song 00:16:00.740 --> 00:16:04.559 came about. But remember, 1992, bands like Bon 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:09.259 Jovi and Aerosmith and Kiss and everybody else 00:16:09.259 --> 00:16:14.110 I worked with could not get through. to get their 00:16:14.110 --> 00:16:19.389 songs played on MTV or their videos and VH1. 00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:24.909 So it was harder to promote a single. Then you 00:16:24.909 --> 00:16:27.909 had to just do it just based on the fans that 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:31.490 you had and, you know, a terrestrial radio. But 00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:35.009 then at that time, radio was already, you know, 00:16:35.049 --> 00:16:38.690 splitting off rock stations, heavy rock stations, 00:16:39.250 --> 00:16:44.440 Americana, Heartland, you know. alternative, 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.759 goth, heavy metal. I mean, there was a station 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:51.240 for every kind of sound. When I was growing up 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:55.360 in the ghettos of Miami and Liberty City, and 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.299 it was a mixed race neighborhood, people with 00:16:57.299 --> 00:17:03.460 white, Latino, African -American, we all played 00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:05.680 together in the swing sets and somebody always 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.980 had a transistor radio. There was one station 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:11.440 to listen to. So you'd hear Aretha Franklin come 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.019 on. and then you'd hear the Beatles, and then 00:17:14.019 --> 00:17:16.859 you'd hear Dionne Warwick, and then you'd hear 00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:20.160 the Monkees. Every song was a different style. 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.680 So you learn to appreciate every song in different 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:28.140 styles. But when they figured out they can have 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:31.839 thousands of stations and really target markets 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.559 and all of that, it was part of the dumbing of 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.119 America, I think. It was this whole idea of if 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.599 somebody likes something, then they should just 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:44.940 Like that and nothing else. I like every flavor 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:48.059 imaginable when it comes to music. Well, I'm 00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:52.220 glad you said music. Well, the other track I 00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:55.880 want to bring up is from 1995's These Days album. 00:17:56.099 --> 00:17:59.160 And it's my favorite song on that album that. 00:17:59.500 --> 00:18:02.319 incorporated an electric sitar for the lead. 00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:04.900 And that's something for the pain, which I thought 00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:08.700 was a very unique thing to bring to Bon Jovi. 00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:10.960 And I was curious if that was a Richie decision 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.740 or what to have the sitar kind of be the lead 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:17.660 instrument, because it really gave the song a 00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:20.700 unique flair and it really stood out because 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:23.660 of that. Well, I've never been a producer on 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:27.019 Bon Jovi tracks. I'm just. the co -writer, and 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:29.640 then they do whatever they're going to do. And 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.960 we were very, very, very lucky that for Slippery 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.740 and for New Jersey, they had the brilliant Bruce 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:40.619 Fairbourn with his engineer, Bob Rock. And so 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:43.640 then he passed away and Aerosmith was using the 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.359 same carbonation. So the bands were one band 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:48.680 coming in one door and the other band going out 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:51.900 the other door. It was kind of like that. And 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:56.069 so we were very lucky. And then All these different 00:18:56.069 --> 00:18:58.569 things happen and, you know, these different 00:18:58.569 --> 00:19:01.990 producers were brought in to work with both bands. 00:19:02.470 --> 00:19:05.869 And those producers might have had an influence 00:19:05.869 --> 00:19:09.109 in how that particular song came out. You know, 00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:11.730 John and Richie were always big fans of the Beatles. 00:19:11.970 --> 00:19:14.529 And so, you know, they had gone through their 00:19:14.529 --> 00:19:18.009 Indian phase, you know, the Beatles hat, you 00:19:18.009 --> 00:19:20.410 know, they went to India. And so that kind of 00:19:20.410 --> 00:19:24.170 wove its way into their music. So maybe it was 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:27.349 a kind of a tribute kind of element to the Beatles. 00:19:27.789 --> 00:19:30.069 I want to touch on that when you're talking about 00:19:30.069 --> 00:19:32.549 the Beatles, because there's something that when 00:19:32.549 --> 00:19:35.470 I was 10 years old, listening to these songs 00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:39.609 on my cassette tapes growing up, I noticed something 00:19:39.609 --> 00:19:41.769 through three of the songs that you happen to 00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:45.529 write that as I got older, started looking back 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:47.710 and saying that might be a nod to the Beatles. 00:19:47.809 --> 00:19:49.690 And this is something now I've wondered for 35 00:19:49.690 --> 00:19:53.670 years. Bon Jovi's Living on a Prayer, Alice Cooper's 00:19:53.670 --> 00:19:55.390 House of Fire, which we talked about earlier, 00:19:55.609 --> 00:19:58.930 and Joan Jett's Little Liar. All three songs 00:19:58.930 --> 00:20:03.410 towards the end use a key change in the chorus 00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:06.829 to kind of reintroduce the song and bring you 00:20:06.829 --> 00:20:08.390 back in at the end. And that's something the 00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:10.869 Beatles did in the early days. How do you decide 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:14.829 when a key change is important to bring to a 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:21.930 song versus not necessary? It all is different. 00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:26.089 I never had Beatles in mind when I suggest key 00:20:26.089 --> 00:20:29.390 changes, especially the most effective one was 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:32.230 Living Out of Prayer. Yeah. Because when they 00:20:32.230 --> 00:20:34.609 did the first demo, you know, they did the key 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.930 change, but there was a drum fill for like a 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:40.630 full measure before the key change came in. And 00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:43.589 I suggest that they drop a beat. Live for the 00:20:43.589 --> 00:20:47.690 fight when that's all that we got, oh. Then the 00:20:47.690 --> 00:20:52.299 oh is on one after a bar of three. Yes. So, all 00:20:52.299 --> 00:20:57.339 that you got, oh, as opposed to, all that you 00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:01.359 got, one, two, three, four, oh. See what I'm 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:04.299 saying? I thought that sounded corny, but the 00:21:04.299 --> 00:21:07.279 sudden surprise of the key change is what makes 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.400 that song. But also, John has cursed me, you 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.720 know, like mercilessly for suggesting the key 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.680 change, you know, because it put the song in 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.309 the stratosphere. Key wise, you know, and, you 00:21:22.309 --> 00:21:25.369 know, in those days, then no problem. But, you 00:21:25.369 --> 00:21:29.289 know, as when maturism becomes more badly, your 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:33.789 voice starts to drop a little bit. So, you know, 00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:37.349 that's the thing. I think that because of how 00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:40.349 I grew up and because I always loved pop music 00:21:40.349 --> 00:21:43.750 and, you know, the Four Seasons and the Beach 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:48.059 Boys and things like that, to me. Key changes 00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:50.819 always added like a new... After you've heard 00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:53.500 the chorus twice, to bring the key change in 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:58.579 on the last chorus brought a new color to it. 00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.779 I never liked half -step key changes. I like 00:22:02.779 --> 00:22:06.099 full, whole -step key changes. Now, I think with 00:22:06.099 --> 00:22:08.000 Living Out Prayer was even more so. I think it 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.880 was a minor third up and it was like, wow, the 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.640 song just exploded. So, I believe in key changes. 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.920 But you can't do it, you know, gratuitously. 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.720 Right. It has to earn its keep. It has to be 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.240 worth it. Or it can be like, you know, oh, this 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.500 song really isn't strong enough to stand on its 00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:32.019 own, then throw the key change in there. So at 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:35.200 least you get another shot at somebody like ear 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.799 picking up and listening to that chorus. Because, 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:40.599 you know, to have a hit, it's repeated listening. 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:45.690 That's why I prefer the bad old days. of payola 00:22:45.690 --> 00:22:49.750 because they could buy you know the record labels 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:52.990 could buy into you know a program director and 00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:56.049 wine and dine them and you know give them coke 00:22:56.049 --> 00:22:59.809 and hookers and you know every you know private 00:22:59.809 --> 00:23:03.569 planes and all this kind of stuff to get repeated 00:23:03.569 --> 00:23:08.109 listening but then the suits and the bean counters 00:23:08.109 --> 00:23:11.509 took control and they wanted what they call like 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.880 polling or whatever, they started to play a song 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.079 in Iowa at three o 'clock in the morning. And 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.359 if one phone lit up, then the band wouldn't be 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:24.099 dropped. You know, it's like a song has to be 00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:25.960 listened to several times. Sometimes you go, 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:28.119 you know, I really don't like that song. And 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.319 then all of a sudden, after you hear it a few 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.420 times, then it sinks in and then you like it. 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:35.920 You know, I was like that with Tearless Whisper. 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.859 You know, when I heard that song, maybe I was 00:23:39.859 --> 00:23:43.799 just... pure jealous, right? And there's this 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:47.619 gorgeous George Michael, you know, and there 00:23:47.619 --> 00:23:50.279 was that like guilty feet, they got no rhythm. 00:23:51.579 --> 00:23:54.900 And I just thought that was the stupidest thing 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:58.380 I'd ever heard. Guilty feet, stinky feet. I don't 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:02.019 know. It just rubbed me the wrong way. And now 00:24:02.019 --> 00:24:04.279 it's like my favorite song in the world. I mean, 00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:08.220 I just love it so much. And I totally... I don't 00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:10.680 even think about it. It's just part of the fabric 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:13.519 of my being because, you know, I've heard it 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:17.799 so many times. You make up your own kind of narrative 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.940 to the songs you listen to. I once had a guy 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:23.779 come up to me, you know, and he said, you wrote 00:24:23.779 --> 00:24:28.680 that song with Aerosmith called Do a Naked Lady. 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:35.019 That's how he heard it. Instead of dude looks 00:24:35.019 --> 00:24:37.200 like a lady, he heard it as do a naked lady. 00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:41.220 And I said, yup. That's it. That's exactly what 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:47.980 I wrote. Why destroy his world? But the song 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:50.480 was originally, if I'm not mistaken, I've seen 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.420 you talk about the fact that the song was originally 00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:56.619 called cruising for the ladies. I don't know 00:24:56.619 --> 00:24:59.240 if that would have had the same impact. Well, 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.099 I mean, I hadn't even said hello to them. I was, 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:04.579 I was led into the big warehouse where they were 00:25:04.579 --> 00:25:07.849 rehearsing and Steven said, you know, come with 00:25:07.849 --> 00:25:11.089 me, come with me. And I didn't say, hi, I'm Desmond, 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:12.789 no, nothing. I said, come with me, come with 00:25:12.789 --> 00:25:16.349 me. And on the side of the stage, the monitor 00:25:16.349 --> 00:25:19.130 guy was there and they had recorded a guitar 00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:21.869 lick backwards. I mean, they were playing it 00:25:21.869 --> 00:25:26.390 backwards and you know, which kind of reminded 00:25:26.390 --> 00:25:29.930 me of ZZ Top kind of thing. And so, you started 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:34.069 singing, cruising for the ladies, like, you know, 00:25:34.089 --> 00:25:36.910 and Then they stopped and they said, well, what 00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:39.390 do you think of that? I said, that's really bad. 00:25:41.349 --> 00:25:44.289 And they were like in shock and Joe was like 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:46.849 crossing his arms, you know, like looking at 00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:49.450 me sideways, you know, like this, you know. And 00:25:49.450 --> 00:25:52.369 then Steven, who's, you know, like I said, people 00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:56.150 pleaser, he said, well, originally I was singing 00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:58.250 Dude Looks Like a Lady. I said, stop right there. 00:25:58.490 --> 00:26:01.230 That's a hit title. And Joe said, but we don't 00:26:01.230 --> 00:26:04.619 know what that means. And I said, well. I know 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:07.000 what that means. He said, well, we don't want 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.759 to insult the gay community. I said, I'm gay. 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:13.960 You're not insulting nobody. That's fun. And 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:18.099 that song has endured the test of time and has 00:26:18.099 --> 00:26:21.039 a great lesson to tell, which is never judge 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.539 a book by its cover of who you're going to love 00:26:23.539 --> 00:26:27.880 by your lover. Because, hey, if it looks good 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.599 to you, go for it. Or if you have a feeling, 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:33.940 go for it. Well, that's a top three Aerosmith 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:36.480 song for me. I've always loved that one. Well, 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.920 you know, I loved it because, you know, it sort 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.440 of brought them back big time and they made the 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.579 funnest video. And when Steven was singing, dude 00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:49.279 looks like a lady, you thought he was singing 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:52.420 about himself because of the big lips and, you 00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:55.460 know, eyeliner and the painted nails and all 00:26:55.460 --> 00:26:57.720 this kind of stuff. So it's like, dude looks 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.900 like a lady. It's like he was like, say, almost 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:05.000 like. I'm a dude and I look like a lady. And 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.940 he looks like a lady now. He always has this 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:13.960 androgynous look. He's never lost that. That's 00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:16.180 what was cool about the 70s when I was coming 00:27:16.180 --> 00:27:19.480 up and listening to David Bowie and Mick Jagger 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.839 and hearing all kinds of stories about all these 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.420 kind of... non -binary relationships and things 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.059 that were going I said that's what it means to 00:27:31.059 --> 00:27:33.920 be a rock star well I want to be that you know 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.740 so that's why I mean I mean I got I had gone 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:40.940 to so many drag shows you know growing up you 00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:43.380 know because that's where you went to a bar and 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:46.299 there always would be a drag show so that's how 00:27:46.299 --> 00:27:50.460 you know we came up with this idea but actually 00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:53.720 it stemmed from a true story because I asked 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:55.400 him how'd you come up with do looks like a lady 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.900 and he said Well, we went to this bar on the 00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:01.700 shore and me and my guys, you know, the roadies 00:28:01.700 --> 00:28:05.140 and stuff. And it was like almost empty and set 00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:08.339 their long, lonely bar. And at the end was this 00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:12.160 kind of vision of loveliness, this like bouffant 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:16.440 platinum mullet with like porcelain skin, black 00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:21.460 nails and jewelry and curvy figure, you know, 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:25.779 voluptuous. And they were like drawing straws 00:28:25.779 --> 00:28:28.460 who was going to go and say hello, right? Hit 00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:31.000 on her, right? So all of a sudden she turns around 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.759 and it's Vince Neil of Motley Crue. And so that's 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.900 when Steven said, oh, that dude looks like a 00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:40.140 lady. Dude looks like a lady. Dude looks like 00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:44.539 a lady. And so he loves alliteration. Dude looks 00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:46.799 like a lady. I mean, you know, the D and all 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.940 that. But when he went to go and write the song. 00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:53.650 You know, I'm sure that it would, you know, that 00:28:53.650 --> 00:28:56.990 idea was like not even brought out on the table. 00:28:57.230 --> 00:28:59.210 You know, he just changed it to Cruisin' for 00:28:59.210 --> 00:29:01.529 the Ladies because that's what would be expected 00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:06.250 of a hetero rock band. But I, you know, as a 00:29:06.250 --> 00:29:08.329 joke, I said, I don't think Van Halen would put 00:29:08.329 --> 00:29:11.730 that on the B -side of their worst record to 00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:15.369 see if I could get them to laugh. And there was, 00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:19.009 no, that fell on deaf ears. No, no, they didn't 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:21.549 think that was funny. That was like another insult. 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:26.630 Well, look, at the time in the 1980s, glam metal 00:29:26.630 --> 00:29:29.230 was massive. I mean, you think about bands like 00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:31.630 Poison and Warrant. They all had the Aquanet 00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:36.240 hair. That song was very. timely for the state 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.740 of the hairband scene. I mean, if you watched 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:42.500 Headbangers Ball in the 1980s on MTV, there was 00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:45.079 more Aquanet throughout that show where even 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.200 artists who didn't do the hairband thing changed 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.880 their look. Like Hart started teasing their hair 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:54.480 up when they did their version of I -10s alone. 00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:58.440 It was very much the mid to late 80s. That was 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:01.960 the look. Right. Exactly. Just like when Ricky 00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:05.220 Martin came out. And he had that frosted blip 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:08.700 up the front. I mean, which was a very gay look, 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:12.660 right? Every straight dude in America got their 00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:14.680 hair cut like that and frosted the front and 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.720 flipped up. So you couldn't tell who was gay 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.140 and who wasn't anymore. Because that was sort 00:30:20.140 --> 00:30:24.299 of like a signature look. So it's the same thing. 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:28.680 When stars create a fashion, look at when Cyndi 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:33.119 Lauper came out and she had this look. you know, 00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:36.859 with the teased up hair and it was like also 00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:39.700 teased up, but it was more like a rooster and 00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:42.440 there was like different colors, purple and green 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.420 and all pink and all this kind of colors like 00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:49.960 that. And then Madonna was making a movie called 00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:54.160 Desperately Seeking Susan and she like verbatim 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:57.839 copied Cyndi Lauper's look for the character. 00:30:58.859 --> 00:31:02.900 And suddenly, Everybody had that look. Every 00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.420 girl had that look. Thrift shop clothes, lots 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:10.579 of bangles and kind of like flea market look 00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:14.240 and like raggedy ends and all this kind of stuff. 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:20.819 And I heard that Cyndi Lauper went crazy that 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:27.319 her look was stolen. That was her look. But Madonna 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:31.019 became massive. Everybody wanted to look like 00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:35.740 her. So that's what happened. So teased up mullets. 00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:38.099 I mean, they've been in fashion since, you know, 00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:42.359 the days of Louis XVI. Right. And they're coming 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.559 back. I mean, there are a lot of rock bands now 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.460 that are incorporating that look again. I've 00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:49.319 seen it in both rock and in some country artists 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.099 still. The mullet is definitely back in country 00:31:52.099 --> 00:31:55.759 music for sure. Well, everything old is new again. 00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:59.289 Amen. Because, you know, it's fun, you know. 00:31:59.930 --> 00:32:02.369 Well, now I want to dive into a couple of songs 00:32:02.369 --> 00:32:04.069 and projects that you've done in some of the 00:32:04.069 --> 00:32:06.609 later years that I've gravitated towards. And 00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:10.650 one of them was back around 2010, I bought Weezer's 00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:13.809 Hurley album. Not reading the liner notes, I 00:32:13.809 --> 00:32:15.710 put the album in. I started listening. And when 00:32:15.710 --> 00:32:18.829 I got to track three, when it was done, I had 00:32:18.829 --> 00:32:21.650 to play it a second time and a third time and 00:32:21.650 --> 00:32:24.609 a fourth time. And I instantly fell in love with 00:32:24.609 --> 00:32:26.890 the track. But then I finished the album. got 00:32:26.890 --> 00:32:29.309 home, put it in my CD player, opened up the book 00:32:29.309 --> 00:32:33.529 and saw that the song was co -written by Desmond 00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:35.750 Child. And I went, well, that explains why this 00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:38.849 song resonated with me. That was the one time 00:32:38.849 --> 00:32:41.089 you worked with Rivers Cuomo and Weezer. And 00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:43.769 to me, that song is definitely the strongest 00:32:43.769 --> 00:32:47.440 on Hurley. I'd love to know. Because that song 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.299 to me sounds like a takedown of reality TV shows 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:54.619 like Jersey Shore, which was massive at the time. 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.920 And being from New Jersey, listening to those 00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:59.160 lyrics, I'm like, I think they're talking about 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.579 us. I would love to know more about this tune. 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:06.099 Well, I don't know. I just love the title Trainwreck. 00:33:06.660 --> 00:33:09.160 And, you know, I started, you know, writing the 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.420 song with Rivers and he was like egging me on 00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:13.859 like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, keep 00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:16.150 going, keep going, keep going. And, you know, 00:33:16.170 --> 00:33:20.410 the idea is like the couple in the song, they're 00:33:20.410 --> 00:33:24.390 so dumb, like they think that they're cool, you 00:33:24.390 --> 00:33:27.309 know, and so even though everybody thinks that 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:30.990 they're trash. And so it has really, really clever 00:33:30.990 --> 00:33:33.690 lyrics like digging in the couch for some cash. 00:33:34.029 --> 00:33:37.069 And, you know, their car is wrecked. They can't 00:33:37.069 --> 00:33:39.609 get in their car. They have no gas for it. Like 00:33:39.609 --> 00:33:42.269 they're just flat broke, but they can still party. 00:33:42.470 --> 00:33:46.130 So they're like party crashers. So they're just 00:33:46.130 --> 00:33:47.990 like heard there was a party and they show up 00:33:47.990 --> 00:33:50.730 and, you know, get free drugs. And it was kind 00:33:50.730 --> 00:33:54.970 of like a Bonnie and Clyde of, you know, trashy 00:33:54.970 --> 00:33:57.869 people. Yeah. And so that's why I love the song 00:33:57.869 --> 00:34:02.009 so much because it's like, if you really listen 00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:03.970 to the song and you know, it's like, you can 00:34:03.970 --> 00:34:08.130 really imagine those two, like a trashy, trashy 00:34:08.130 --> 00:34:11.650 version of Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee. That's 00:34:11.650 --> 00:34:14.369 what I had in my mind. Like, they're like, you 00:34:14.369 --> 00:34:16.619 know, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor compared 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:20.239 to the characters in that song. Yes, yes. Basically 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:27.340 speaking, I kind of, I was thinking about the 00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:30.840 Rolling Stones a little bit. You know? Yeah, 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.780 a little bit. I was thinking like Stones, like, 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.420 you know, kind of, I don't know, kind of like 00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:39.800 that kind of jangly, kind of bouncy rock that 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.659 has a little soul, a little bit of soul music. 00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:45.889 And I hadn't once. read this article that this 00:34:45.889 --> 00:34:50.409 professor of music history had determined that 00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:55.489 the most successful songs in pop had an element 00:34:55.489 --> 00:35:00.349 in them that was R &B. Like when the music didn't 00:35:00.349 --> 00:35:03.750 have an element of soul, they didn't last as 00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:06.329 long, they didn't stay number one as long, they 00:35:06.329 --> 00:35:09.030 didn't, you know, and so there was like a quotient 00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:12.050 of how much soul in a song. And I look at, you 00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:14.230 know, the success of I Was Made For Loving You, 00:35:14.329 --> 00:35:16.750 you know, the dance beat with the rock guitars. 00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:20.030 Then later on with You Give Love a Bad Name and 00:35:20.030 --> 00:35:23.130 Living on Prayer, the Motown bass, you know, 00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:30.230 it's very like Jackson 5 in a way. Yes. So I 00:35:30.230 --> 00:35:32.170 kind of always had that in the back of my mind. 00:35:32.210 --> 00:35:35.130 You know, if there's a soul element, the song 00:35:35.130 --> 00:35:38.469 is much more listenable and stands the test of 00:35:38.469 --> 00:35:41.460 time so much better. When I hear the song, I 00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:43.519 hear that now that you're saying that, especially 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:47.059 in the bridge where it's, that's just cause they're 00:35:47.059 --> 00:35:52.760 jealous of me. And yeah, like that, the hair 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.420 on my arm stands up cause it's just, it's so 00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.119 musical and it pulls you into the song so much. 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.739 And that's, that's what really I fell in love 00:36:00.739 --> 00:36:03.079 with that song for. I love those characters. 00:36:03.179 --> 00:36:05.860 It's like, people love to tell us what to do. 00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:07.889 You know, it's like. You really should get a 00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:10.489 job or you really should do this. But that's 00:36:10.489 --> 00:36:12.610 just because they're jealous. You know, it's 00:36:12.610 --> 00:36:14.829 like, how about because you're a train wreck? 00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:21.190 But I love that kind of dual reality. Yes. You 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:24.289 know, like the listener is in on the joke. So 00:36:24.289 --> 00:36:28.750 I love that. Multi -layered for sure. Now, in 00:36:28.750 --> 00:36:32.670 2006, you stepped in to write and produce songs 00:36:32.670 --> 00:36:35.489 for Meatloaf's Bad Outta Hell 3, The Monster 00:36:35.489 --> 00:36:38.670 Is Loose. And for those that don't know, Bad 00:36:38.670 --> 00:36:41.070 Outta Hell 1 and 2 were a product of Meatloaf 00:36:41.070 --> 00:36:43.829 and singer -songwriter Jim Steinman. So when 00:36:43.829 --> 00:36:46.349 you're walking into a project that has a decades 00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:49.710 -long legacy because of 77's Bad Outta Hell 1 00:36:49.710 --> 00:36:55.389 and 93's Bad Outta Hell 2, what was it like stepping 00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:59.329 in to create the third chapter of that album's 00:36:59.329 --> 00:37:02.750 story, if you will, but bring your own unique... 00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:06.659 songwriting perspective to what Meatloaf was 00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:10.099 bringing to the first two albums? Well, I think 00:37:10.099 --> 00:37:14.179 that I was very naive and I was so blown away 00:37:14.179 --> 00:37:17.639 that I could do it. At that time, Meatloaf and 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.239 Jim Steinman were in a terrible lawsuit over 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.960 the brand name Bad Out of Hell because Jim Steinman 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:28.820 wrote a Broadway musical, Bad Out of Hell, and 00:37:28.820 --> 00:37:31.099 Meatloaf didn't want him to use that as the title. 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:33.400 He says, no, those are the names of my albums. 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.079 It said, yeah, but I actually wrote those words. 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.239 I wrote those songs. You're not the author of 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:45.059 those songs. I am. That's my title. So it turned 00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:49.360 into this $30 million lawsuit, something. And 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.260 in the middle of that, he needed to tour and 00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:55.679 he needed to jumpstart his career. So they brought 00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:58.460 me in because I was the closest thing to Jim 00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:01.119 Steinman. that they could find because I had 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:04.920 similar roots, East Coast, Brill Building, Phil 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.940 Spector -y kind of background. And also, you 00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:12.239 know, the Bon Jovi, you know, kind of Springsteen 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.159 -esque Jersey sound was, you know, I had been 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.099 successful with that. And, you know, I was, you 00:38:19.099 --> 00:38:21.980 know, big fan of Jim Steinman, just Total Eclipse 00:38:21.980 --> 00:38:25.099 of the Heart is a masterpiece. Yes. And so I 00:38:25.099 --> 00:38:27.539 jumped at the chance to do it, but I was really 00:38:27.539 --> 00:38:32.519 kind of... used as a kind of pawn, I think Meat 00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:35.539 Loaf thought like, well, I'll make Jim jealous 00:38:35.539 --> 00:38:38.460 and then he'll want to like settle the lawsuit 00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:40.599 and then come back and actually produce the real 00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:44.400 Fat Outta Hell 3. So, which, you know, but the 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.300 album became one of the most expensive albums 00:38:47.300 --> 00:38:50.099 I've ever made or of all time. It was like $2 00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:54.490 million budget. Wow. It took nine months. And 00:38:54.490 --> 00:38:57.849 they loaded up the album with seven Jim Steinman 00:38:57.849 --> 00:39:00.650 songs that came from different sources. Like 00:39:00.650 --> 00:39:03.329 Jim Steinman had a vampire musical. So they grabbed 00:39:03.329 --> 00:39:06.030 Land of the Pigs and stuff like that from that. 00:39:06.449 --> 00:39:10.369 And Jim Steinman had a solo record. So they took 00:39:10.369 --> 00:39:12.630 songs from that. And Jim Steinman had written 00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:15.869 songs for other artists like Celine Dion. It's 00:39:15.869 --> 00:39:18.730 all coming back to me now. And they wanted to 00:39:18.730 --> 00:39:22.170 do that as a duet. And so they're like stabbing 00:39:22.170 --> 00:39:26.130 Jim Steinman songs on it. And then I wrote some 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:29.590 great, amazing songs with John Five and James 00:39:29.590 --> 00:39:33.090 Michael, Blindness of Bat. I mean, it's like 00:39:33.090 --> 00:39:36.289 masterpiece unto itself. The Monster is Loose. 00:39:36.329 --> 00:39:39.889 No, I think Monster is Loose. I'm confusing the 00:39:39.889 --> 00:39:43.210 co -writers, but Marty Fredrickson, Diane Warren 00:39:43.210 --> 00:39:47.349 contributed a wonderful ballad. And I worked 00:39:47.349 --> 00:39:50.000 with Holly Knight. And I think we were coming 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.900 up with a new direction, a fresh new direction, 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.380 if you listen to those songs. The other songs 00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:59.719 were just overblown recreations of Steinman's 00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:04.460 style. But in the end, they settled. And then 00:40:04.460 --> 00:40:08.019 I think Milov had a case of feeling very guilty 00:40:08.019 --> 00:40:11.980 that he had proceeded to move forward a bit out 00:40:11.980 --> 00:40:17.159 of Hall 3 without Jim. So he has, before he passed 00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:20.920 away, He actually had the album pulled off of 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:24.840 Spotify in the US only because he doesn't control 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.840 the global, the worldwide version of that album. 00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:32.039 So it's everywhere in the world except for the 00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.760 US, which is the only part of it that he controlled. 00:40:35.659 --> 00:40:40.099 And he ended up making his last record with Jim 00:40:40.099 --> 00:40:43.900 Steinman, which maybe those were the songs that 00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:47.929 Jim wanted to save for Bad Outta Hell 3. And 00:40:47.929 --> 00:40:51.050 so I don't remember the title of it. I mean, 00:40:51.070 --> 00:40:53.010 it was like larger than both of us or something 00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:55.630 like that. And the, both of them are on the cover, 00:40:55.730 --> 00:40:58.650 like the backs of them. And they're like facing 00:40:58.650 --> 00:41:01.670 hell and damnation, like this big, like whirlpool 00:41:01.670 --> 00:41:04.690 of fire and brimstone and all this kind of stuff. 00:41:05.250 --> 00:41:07.610 Cause you know, those bad out of hell covers 00:41:07.610 --> 00:41:11.449 always had that kind of imagery. Yep. And you 00:41:11.449 --> 00:41:14.329 know, you know, I'm very sorry that he passed 00:41:14.329 --> 00:41:19.119 away and You know, I had hoped that I could, 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:24.039 you know, get him to understand that while I 00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:26.619 was making Bad Out of Hell 3 on the Jim Steinman 00:41:26.619 --> 00:41:30.840 songs, I was consulting with Jim behind the scenes. 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.260 You know, I was sending him the rough mixes, 00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.239 getting his opinion. He never, like, said I was 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:38.059 doing anything wrong. He just always said, oh, 00:41:38.059 --> 00:41:41.280 sounds fantastic. You're doing a great job. So 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.940 it was blessed by Jim Steinman, you know, because 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:48.780 he cared. And so I never got to tell me about 00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:52.699 that aspect. And then I was very shocked to hear 00:41:52.699 --> 00:41:56.199 that he, in an interview with Rollies or something, 00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:59.119 he said, well, bad out of hell three doesn't 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.219 exist. There's only bad out of hell one and bad 00:42:01.219 --> 00:42:03.880 out of hell two. It doesn't exist. Wow. You know, 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:06.760 so it was very mean to say because I had put 00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:11.059 nine months of my life on hold with high overhead 00:42:11.059 --> 00:42:13.699 of my own. And then in the end, you didn't pay 00:42:13.699 --> 00:42:18.360 me my back end, which is $65 ,000. And, you know, 00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.619 it's like, that was like a month's worth of my 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:26.139 expenses. And I had little toddlers that I never 00:42:26.139 --> 00:42:29.820 saw, you know, it was my husband and I had twin 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:32.179 sons and they were like three and four and five 00:42:32.179 --> 00:42:36.000 years old around that time. And I never got to 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.480 see them for those nine months because I'd work 00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.099 really late. They'd be asleep. I'd wake up late. 00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:44.739 They'd be gone to school. And I worked through 00:42:44.739 --> 00:42:47.739 weekends to bring the album in on time for his 00:42:47.739 --> 00:42:51.840 tour. And I wasn't appreciated for it. So it 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.340 really hurt my feelings. And it's like one of 00:42:54.340 --> 00:42:57.139 those things that's like, you wish that everything 00:42:57.139 --> 00:43:01.920 was like tied up in a neat little bow. But that 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.860 piece is like raggedy shreds that never got fixed. 00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:08.800 It's all in my book. Live it out of prayer. Big 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.940 songs, big life. Big problems too. I was going 00:43:12.940 --> 00:43:15.539 to say from a fan perspective, I just want you 00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:17.380 to know that there are three bad out of hell 00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:19.559 albums. I love the work that you did on volume 00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:24.400 three. And I also read a tidbit that you played 00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:29.079 Slipknot for the band in order to put the mindset 00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:31.440 of what you were looking to do musically in some 00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:33.639 of the songs. Yeah. Can you talk about that? 00:43:34.059 --> 00:43:37.139 Well, I think in the monster is loose. I mean, 00:43:37.139 --> 00:43:39.159 what I loved about Slipknot was this like, kind 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:41.699 of like, short little things. And I think like, 00:43:41.780 --> 00:43:45.880 you know, kind of like there was space between 00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:48.280 the notes. And I think they would almost be like 00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:54.219 dead space. It wasn't like you heard amps and 00:43:54.219 --> 00:43:56.659 reverbs and things spilling over. It was like 00:43:56.659 --> 00:44:00.059 very tight. And I just loved Slipknot. And I 00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:03.300 thought, well, that would be a great direction 00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:07.179 to put him into because it would get radio play 00:44:07.179 --> 00:44:11.139 on rock radio. on active rock and all of that. 00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:13.980 And so that's why I was kind of guiding it away 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:17.940 from that pompous, braggadocious Broadway style. 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:22.199 So I was hoping to bring him into the here and 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:25.460 now instead of just throwback in the past. But 00:44:25.460 --> 00:44:27.920 then I had like seven songs and then they made 00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:29.760 me cut another seven songs. It was like making 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:33.340 a double album. And of those songs, you could 00:44:33.340 --> 00:44:38.079 hardly ever copy and paste. You had to every... 00:44:38.539 --> 00:44:42.079 piece of it had to be recorded separate you know 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.599 like of its own yes and some of these songs were 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.840 six seven minutes long so a 14 song album with 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:52.800 songs that were seven minutes long that's almost 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:55.079 like a triple album so that's why it costs so 00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:58.980 much because every demon choir orchestras you 00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:03.179 know 60 piece orchestras i mean it was so much 00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:05.780 went into it i mean i think it's a fantastic 00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:08.710 journey and i And, you know, maybe your listeners 00:45:08.710 --> 00:45:12.070 could find some way to hear it. It really is 00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:16.050 very fulfilling to hear it. And I got a chance 00:45:16.050 --> 00:45:19.730 to speak with Pearl Adeg, Meatloaf's daughter, 00:45:19.909 --> 00:45:24.150 this year. I reached out to her and she was so 00:45:24.150 --> 00:45:27.750 nice. And, you know, I gave my condolences and 00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:31.449 it was like, wow, you know, it's such a shame 00:45:31.449 --> 00:45:35.750 because he was really a national monument unto 00:45:35.750 --> 00:45:40.230 himself. You know, he was like bigger than life. 00:45:40.670 --> 00:45:44.969 And it's a big, huge loss to the world that he 00:45:44.969 --> 00:45:49.340 has gone. I agree. Now, while we've been talking 00:45:49.340 --> 00:45:51.539 about so many bands tonight, we've brought them 00:45:51.539 --> 00:45:54.119 up a couple of times, but I know that my weekly 00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.480 mixtape listeners would be pissed if we don't 00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:59.159 talk a little bit about Kiss tonight. And you 00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.280 mentioned earlier the song I Was Made For Loving 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.239 You, which at the time was a departure for the 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:08.400 band, bringing disco into the band sound. No, 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.619 you said the wrong word. It wasn't disco. Really? 00:46:11.739 --> 00:46:14.920 It was Motown. Motown. It was Motown. Okay. It 00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:18.010 was dance beat. Dance feet with heavy rock guitars. 00:46:18.550 --> 00:46:23.269 No disco. It was not disco. You know, that's 00:46:23.269 --> 00:46:26.690 how we were pegged by, you know, the haters of 00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:29.530 Kiss. And so, you know, it didn't help that Gene 00:46:29.530 --> 00:46:32.329 was negative about the song. He thought it was 00:46:32.329 --> 00:46:35.670 off -brand, you know, for Kiss to come up with 00:46:35.670 --> 00:46:38.230 something like that. But the fact is that it's 00:46:38.230 --> 00:46:40.590 their biggest international hit of all time. 00:46:40.690 --> 00:46:43.889 And it gets licensed over and over time and time 00:46:43.889 --> 00:46:48.500 again. One of my biggest moneymakers ever. And, 00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:51.659 you know, that song brought me together with 00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:54.539 Paul. That was the second song we wrote. First 00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:57.059 song we wrote was called The Fight. We co -wrote 00:46:57.059 --> 00:46:59.900 that with David Landau, our guitarist from Desmond 00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:03.000 Child and Rouge. And I said, okay, well, let's 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.239 write a song, you know, for your project. And 00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.519 he was like looking at me like, you don't know 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:13.039 G. You know, he already was imagining whatever 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.800 we came up with Gene would reject. And so we 00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:18.880 wrote the song and it was magic in the studio 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.699 with the producer Vinny Poncia, who's also credited 00:47:21.699 --> 00:47:24.320 as a co -writer. I'm not quite sure what he brought 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:27.880 to it, but he brought something and made it a 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.900 hit. And so for that, I'm forever grateful. And 00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:34.000 then Paul, it was like one of those things, like 00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.079 he was not encouraged to keep writing with me, 00:47:36.139 --> 00:47:39.449 but then he did. And we wrote Heavens on Fire, 00:47:39.610 --> 00:47:42.650 which was another hit for them. Now with the 00:47:42.650 --> 00:47:45.809 makeup off. And then we wrote, you know, Who 00:47:45.809 --> 00:47:48.969 Wants to Be Lonely? I mean, I love that song. 00:47:49.210 --> 00:47:51.889 And being a big fan of the Crazy Nights album, 00:47:51.949 --> 00:47:54.230 you have to talk about reason to live. Reason 00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:57.070 to live. You know, everybody's got a reason to 00:47:57.070 --> 00:47:59.590 live. Because I was trying to bring into it the 00:47:59.590 --> 00:48:05.269 kind of more like soulful storyline. that i was 00:48:05.269 --> 00:48:07.789 kind of working on with other bands you know 00:48:07.789 --> 00:48:10.349 kind of everybody's got a reason to live you 00:48:10.349 --> 00:48:13.610 know just like just like that idea that concept 00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:18.409 and i think that that song showed you know how 00:48:18.409 --> 00:48:23.269 varied kiss can be yeah i mean they had a huge 00:48:23.269 --> 00:48:26.110 hit with beth i mean where did that come from 00:48:26.110 --> 00:48:28.889 i know it was you know the other guy's song but 00:48:28.889 --> 00:48:33.949 they went with it and it was like huge Huge hit. 00:48:34.510 --> 00:48:37.869 I mean, to this day, whenever anybody plays a 00:48:37.869 --> 00:48:41.429 song, you want to listen to it. It pulls on the 00:48:41.429 --> 00:48:46.050 heartstrings. And I went to see Kiss's last performance 00:48:46.050 --> 00:48:49.829 at Madison Square Garden last month. It was December 00:48:49.829 --> 00:48:55.429 2nd. And I went with my husband and our son Nero, 00:48:55.510 --> 00:49:00.449 because our son Roman was in Europe. He had spent 00:49:00.449 --> 00:49:02.110 a semester in Europe, so he didn't get to go. 00:49:02.510 --> 00:49:06.389 and with our, you know, production manager, Brian 00:49:06.389 --> 00:49:10.150 Coleman. And it was just so emotional to see 00:49:10.150 --> 00:49:14.250 them perform their last show. I mean, the way 00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:17.269 that Paul looked up, you know, where we were 00:49:17.269 --> 00:49:20.909 like sitting just like, it was like, I mean, 00:49:20.949 --> 00:49:23.989 my heart was breaking. And they also in that 00:49:23.989 --> 00:49:28.210 show, they showed how versatile they are. They 00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:31.349 had so many musical moments and all that, like. 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:35.519 in harmony guitar work, you know, I mean, virtuoso. 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:42.139 And the way that Paul's character is like in 00:49:42.139 --> 00:49:44.500 a way like Alice Cooper's, you know, it's like, 00:49:44.500 --> 00:49:48.380 that's not Paul, that's his character, that's 00:49:48.380 --> 00:49:52.300 Starchild, right? And, you know, he was like 00:49:52.300 --> 00:49:54.639 slagging it up, you know, like never before. 00:49:55.500 --> 00:50:00.110 And, you know, it was just so, so sweet. And 00:50:00.110 --> 00:50:02.550 they'll be forever because I'm sure that they'll 00:50:02.550 --> 00:50:06.650 be morphed into holograms and into, you know, 00:50:06.730 --> 00:50:09.369 you'll go to a KISS show and you'll feel like 00:50:09.369 --> 00:50:11.489 they're there. Yeah, through the avatars, uh 00:50:11.489 --> 00:50:14.670 -huh. I saw the ABBA show in London twice. The 00:50:14.670 --> 00:50:17.409 second time I went, I actually had tears because 00:50:17.409 --> 00:50:19.449 when they sing that song, The Winter Takes It 00:50:19.449 --> 00:50:22.230 All, and you know that that's about them breaking 00:50:22.230 --> 00:50:25.349 up, you know, and what they went through. I mean, 00:50:25.429 --> 00:50:27.909 emotionally, The Winter Takes It All was a very 00:50:27.909 --> 00:50:32.530 bitter divorce. And it was just so emotional 00:50:32.530 --> 00:50:35.230 how they like rendered it on the stage with these 00:50:35.230 --> 00:50:38.269 avatars. Like, you know, the avatars were like, 00:50:38.369 --> 00:50:40.670 you could see every pore in their skin. You could 00:50:40.670 --> 00:50:42.710 see crooked little teeth. You could see a little 00:50:42.710 --> 00:50:46.170 scar. You could see, you know, stray hairs. They 00:50:46.170 --> 00:50:49.150 were so realistic. And you could see their eyes 00:50:49.150 --> 00:50:52.730 well up with tears. And, you know, it was just, 00:50:52.929 --> 00:50:55.809 I think it's great. You know, some people think 00:50:55.809 --> 00:50:58.130 it's a bad thing. I don't. It's like going to 00:50:58.130 --> 00:51:01.449 see a movie. You know, Pirates of the Caribbean. 00:51:01.550 --> 00:51:05.969 You expect that to be real? No. It's entertainment. 00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:09.309 You know, and, you know, Kiss has always been 00:51:09.309 --> 00:51:13.130 very theatrical anyway. And those avatars they 00:51:13.130 --> 00:51:15.570 created, they created avatars before there were 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:19.510 avatars. You know, large, you know, platform 00:51:19.510 --> 00:51:23.250 shoes, bigger than life, big hair. I mean, between 00:51:23.250 --> 00:51:25.670 the hair, the platform shoes, they were like 00:51:25.670 --> 00:51:28.750 over seven feet tall. You know, these creatures. 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:32.639 And, you know, I don't see any reason. I mean, 00:51:32.659 --> 00:51:36.119 there's so much creativity that now they can 00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:40.780 get into that they can do in person. You know, 00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:43.880 they could make somebody like do a spin and then 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:46.860 disappear in a puff of smoke and then show up 00:51:46.860 --> 00:51:52.039 in a new costume like in seconds later. And I 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:54.179 think it's like a great thing because they'll 00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:59.179 be able to preserve their legacy forever. The 00:51:59.179 --> 00:52:03.280 people from the future will want to see it the 00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:07.079 way we love to hear Mozart. Hundreds of years 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.420 into the future. Why not? Well, I think it would 00:52:10.420 --> 00:52:12.840 be safe to say, looking at the list of songs 00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:16.119 we've touched on in this past hour, that hundreds 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:18.619 of years from now, people will still be talking 00:52:18.619 --> 00:52:21.539 about the songs that Desmond Child has written. 00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:24.840 With that in mind, are there any songs that you 00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:28.119 wrote? Or a single song that you wrote that has 00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.199 a deep personal meaning to you. Not talking about 00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:33.860 if the song is a hit or what other people think 00:52:33.860 --> 00:52:36.079 of the song. I'm talking about a song that has 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:40.380 a deep personal connection to you. Well, one 00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:44.039 of my favorite songs of all time is a song called 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:48.000 Weird that I wrote with those three kids from 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.280 Hanson. Yeah. Yeah. Isaac was 16. Taylor was 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:56.940 14. And Zach was nine years old. When I told 00:52:56.940 --> 00:52:59.059 Diane Warren that I was going to write with a 00:52:59.059 --> 00:53:01.579 nine -year -old, she said, Desmond, you've reached 00:53:01.579 --> 00:53:05.079 your lowest low. But this is before Umbop came 00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:07.019 out, right? Ah, okay, yeah. So this song, we 00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.820 had made it out to that record. And after they 00:53:09.820 --> 00:53:11.920 sold six million records, she called me for their 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:15.360 number. I guess she hit her lowest low, right? 00:53:15.860 --> 00:53:19.420 I mean, it's like, that song is magic. And to 00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:23.289 me, it's about growing up, you know, poor. growing 00:53:23.289 --> 00:53:26.829 up Latino, growing up gay, you know, being an 00:53:26.829 --> 00:53:29.449 outcast, feeling like I didn't fit in, I didn't 00:53:29.449 --> 00:53:33.690 get invited to the cool parties and all of that. 00:53:33.769 --> 00:53:38.010 Now I do by my classmates. You know, we had our 00:53:38.010 --> 00:53:43.230 50th anniversary of the class of 72. And now 00:53:43.230 --> 00:53:45.389 they're inviting me and they say, oh, well, you 00:53:45.389 --> 00:53:47.829 were so cool then. It's like, then why didn't 00:53:47.829 --> 00:53:50.489 you invite me to? to the cool parties that you 00:53:50.489 --> 00:53:54.809 guys were having. And so that song, Being Weird, 00:53:55.030 --> 00:53:58.750 it's one of my favorite songs of all time. And 00:53:58.750 --> 00:54:01.489 I sing it sometimes when I do these acoustic 00:54:01.489 --> 00:54:05.670 sets and all that. And it has a beautiful bridge. 00:54:06.190 --> 00:54:10.090 It really reminds me of my idols, Burt Bacharach 00:54:10.090 --> 00:54:13.869 and Hal David. Sitting on the side, waiting for 00:54:13.869 --> 00:54:18.110 a sign, hoping that my luck will change. Reaching 00:54:18.110 --> 00:54:21.989 for a hand that'll understand someone who feels 00:54:21.989 --> 00:54:26.130 the same. When you live in a cookie cutter world, 00:54:26.230 --> 00:54:30.889 being different is a sin. So you don't stand 00:54:30.889 --> 00:54:38.230 out and you don't fit in. Weird. I mean, that's 00:54:38.230 --> 00:54:42.400 so profound. Awesome. Well, Desmond, this has 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.679 been an absolute honor. I hope we could chat 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.260 again sometime down the road because I haven't 00:54:48.260 --> 00:54:50.739 even scratched the surface of Desmond Child songs 00:54:50.739 --> 00:54:53.320 that I would love to know more about. But I thank 00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:55.960 you so much for joining me on my weekly mixtape. 00:54:56.099 --> 00:54:59.119 Well, invite me again. You know, when my audio 00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.840 book comes out, I'll be promoting my audio book 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:05.940 in a few months. You know, so yes, please invite 00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:10.400 your fans and your tribe. to follow me at desmond 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:13.980 .child on Instagram. And then all the news that's 00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:16.920 fit to print is in there. And I tell a lot of 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:21.159 stories and I'm on there like every day. My husband's 00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:25.679 like, get off the phone. I'm there like answering 00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.079 questions and everything. I just love it. It's 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:31.260 like I have a million point two best friends. 00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:34.420 That's how I look at it because I had a lowly 00:55:34.420 --> 00:55:36.750 childhood. So now I have a million point two 00:55:36.750 --> 00:55:42.190 friends. That's not enough. Well, I am certainly 00:55:42.190 --> 00:55:44.429 one of them. And this has been an absolute pleasure, 00:55:44.590 --> 00:55:47.070 sir. Thank you for the time tonight. Thank you. 00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:50.690 Thank you. And remember, you can head to myweeklymixtape 00:55:50.690 --> 00:55:53.889 .com to hear a playlist of all the songs we've 00:55:53.889 --> 00:55:56.750 discussed in tonight's episode, as well as check 00:55:56.750 --> 00:55:59.670 out the full catalog of My Weekly Mixtape episodes. 00:56:00.030 --> 00:56:01.789 And if you like what you're hearing on the show, 00:56:01.949 --> 00:56:03.969 you can help me out by either telling a friend, 00:56:04.130 --> 00:56:06.230 leaving the show a five -star review wherever 00:56:06.230 --> 00:56:09.489 you're tuning in, or becoming a Patreon mixtaper 00:56:09.489 --> 00:56:13.110 at patreon .com forward slash myweeklymixtape. 00:56:13.369 --> 00:56:15.570 That's all for this week. Thanks again for listening. 00:56:15.630 --> 00:56:17.889 And until next time. Enjoy the tunes.