WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.919 This is Desmond Child, and I'm back again on 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:06.719 My Weekly Mixtape with Brian Colburn to talk 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:09.980 about more songs from throughout my career. Enjoy 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:24.320 the show. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:27.809 that takes the classic mixtape approach to building 00:00:27.809 --> 00:00:30.670 a modern playlist i'm your host brian culburn 00:00:30.670 --> 00:00:34.049 tonight i'm beyond excited to welcome back to 00:00:34.049 --> 00:00:36.570 the show one of my favorite songwriters on the 00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:39.649 planet the one and only desmond child desmond 00:00:39.649 --> 00:00:41.609 it's a pleasure to have you back on the program 00:00:41.609 --> 00:00:46.189 sir oh it's great to be here now Back on episode 00:00:46.189 --> 00:00:49.649 54, you and I dove into a lot of songs from your 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:52.929 arsenal of chart -topping hits, and we also talked 00:00:52.929 --> 00:00:54.929 a lot about your memoir, Living on a Prayer, 00:00:55.149 --> 00:00:57.810 Big Songs, Big Life. Tonight, we're going to 00:00:57.810 --> 00:01:00.289 continue that dive into more songs from your 00:01:00.289 --> 00:01:03.570 incredible songwriting career, as well as discuss 00:01:03.570 --> 00:01:07.170 the new audiobook of Big Songs, Big Life, which 00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:10.230 is out now. The first thing I want to do is congratulate 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.849 you as four of the songs you've written and co 00:01:13.849 --> 00:01:16.650 -written, that being Bon Jovi's You Give Love 00:01:16.650 --> 00:01:19.629 a Bad Name and Living on a Prayer, as well as 00:01:19.629 --> 00:01:22.730 Kisses I Was Made for Loving You and Ava Max's 00:01:22.730 --> 00:01:26.129 Kings and Queens have all reached over a billion 00:01:26.129 --> 00:01:29.969 streams on Spotify. So congratulations on those 00:01:29.969 --> 00:01:33.230 four milestones. Thank you. I love being a billionaire. 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:38.790 Well, starting with Bon Jovi's You Give Love 00:01:38.790 --> 00:01:41.069 a Bad Name, since we didn't get a chance to talk 00:01:41.069 --> 00:01:44.269 about that song on volume one, can you maybe 00:01:44.269 --> 00:01:47.230 dive into the songwriting origins for that song 00:01:47.230 --> 00:01:49.510 and its connection to another song you wrote, 00:01:49.590 --> 00:01:52.349 which was Bonnie Tyler's If You Were a Woman 00:01:52.349 --> 00:01:56.310 and I Was a Man? Yes. I had gotten a call from 00:01:56.310 --> 00:02:00.670 Bonnie Tyler's producer, Jim Steinman, and he 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:05.719 was a friend of my manager, Winston Simone. Just 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:09.539 had a huge hit with Bonnie Tyler, Total Eclipse 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:12.539 of the Heart. And he was looking for material 00:02:12.539 --> 00:02:16.500 for her next record. And so I had sent over a 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:19.240 song called Lovers Again, which he loved, and 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.139 recorded with her. And then said, you know, I'd 00:02:22.139 --> 00:02:25.080 like you to write me a specially written song. 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:29.740 First of all, the theme has to be about androgyny. 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:34.659 Okay. he came to the right place. The thing is, 00:02:34.659 --> 00:02:36.840 he says, I want the verses to sound like Tina 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:40.219 Turner. I want the B section to sound like Colin 00:02:40.219 --> 00:02:43.039 Oates or the police. And then I want the chorus 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.599 to sound like Bruce Springsteen. And I said, 00:02:46.659 --> 00:02:51.939 okay. And so I went right to work. And within 00:02:51.939 --> 00:02:55.379 24 hours, I had come up with If You Were a Woman 00:02:55.379 --> 00:02:58.180 and I Was a Man, which he recorded with her. 00:02:58.419 --> 00:03:02.280 The thing is that Right at that time, there was 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:05.439 this kind of change at her record company at 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.900 Sony. There was a new regime and kind of all 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:13.139 the British stars were kind of getting short 00:03:13.139 --> 00:03:17.259 shrifted. And so they didn't get the same promotion 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:21.199 that they were getting before. I mean, I'm talking 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.840 about huge stars, you know, like Neil Diamond, 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.560 Barbra Streisand, Bruce Priestley. Eurythmics, 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:32.560 Culture Club, Cyndi Lauper. It was a change that 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.199 happened. And they weren't using those kind of 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.800 promotional dollars on someone like Bonnie Tyler. 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:42.719 And it's a shame because, I mean, she's one of 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.159 the greatest rock singers of all time. And so 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:49.620 what was happening then, you know, so that song 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:54.240 was released and it was popular in France only. 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:58.520 And so I really... thought I had like a number 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:02.979 one song there for her. And so, you know, a year 00:04:02.979 --> 00:04:06.240 went by and I was kind of mad. It's almost like 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.400 I wasted a song, you know, that could have been 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:11.939 a global smash. And so I went to write with, 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.879 I had solely written that song. So I went to 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.220 co -write with Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora. 00:04:18.300 --> 00:04:22.600 And the very first day that I went to meet with 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.850 them, I had a title in my pocket. called You 00:04:25.850 --> 00:04:28.949 Give Love a Bad Name. And as soon as I said the 00:04:28.949 --> 00:04:32.490 title, John finally looked up and looked at me 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:35.529 and gave me that billion -dollar smile. And so 00:04:35.529 --> 00:04:39.649 I said, you know, I also have a hook that I used 00:04:39.649 --> 00:04:42.050 in another song that didn't make it. It was like 00:04:42.050 --> 00:04:45.009 a stillborn. And so I kind of started playing 00:04:45.009 --> 00:04:48.350 that melody with those chords. And, you know, 00:04:48.370 --> 00:04:51.439 very quickly, you know... If you were a woman 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:56.300 and I was a man, would it be so hard to understand? 00:04:56.779 --> 00:05:00.079 And then it became shot through the heart and 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.779 you're to blame, darling. You give love a bad 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:07.480 name. It was cut from really the same bolt that 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:10.800 Because the Night was with, you know, because 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:12.779 they had the similar chord structure. It's like, 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.279 but our melody went up and Because the Night 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.600 went down. Because the night belonged to lover. 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:23.139 Because the night, you know, I mean, like, it 00:05:23.139 --> 00:05:27.360 was the Jersey sound, right? And so they really 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.019 took to that. And also, I had been obsessed with 00:05:31.019 --> 00:05:35.100 two songs around that time. One was Billie Jean 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:38.560 by Michael Jackson. And the other one was These 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:42.360 Dreams Are Made of This by the Eurythmics. And 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.339 they both had the very similar undulating bass 00:05:46.339 --> 00:05:50.139 line that I also used on Bonnie Tyler's song, 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:57.639 you know, it was the same thing. And I was playing 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.879 it for Richie and he said, that sounds like Michael 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.220 Jackson. We can't do that. And I said, you know, 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:06.339 we're a rock band. I said, no, listen, man, just 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:12.379 play it on, chug it on guitar. Like, you know, 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:19.649 right? So then we went. And the song just came 00:06:19.649 --> 00:06:23.790 to life. But it was the kind of sister -brother 00:06:23.790 --> 00:06:28.569 of If You Were A Woman I Was A Man. So that opened 00:06:28.569 --> 00:06:32.230 the door because they went beyond the Call of 00:06:32.230 --> 00:06:34.970 Duty, producing that with Bruce Fairburn, the 00:06:34.970 --> 00:06:39.290 incredible producer in Vancouver, and Bob Brock 00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:43.250 was the engineer. And they also did Living on 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:46.790 a Prayer, all for this album called Slippery 00:06:46.790 --> 00:06:50.189 When Wet. which is now, I think we're coming 00:06:50.189 --> 00:06:53.850 to the, is it already the 40th anniversary? I 00:06:53.850 --> 00:06:55.790 don't know. It will be in a few short years. 00:06:56.009 --> 00:07:00.290 But the album just made Bon Jovi the biggest 00:07:00.290 --> 00:07:04.069 stars in all the world. So then after that, in 00:07:04.069 --> 00:07:07.250 more recent times, the original song, If You 00:07:07.250 --> 00:07:10.269 Were a Woman and I Was a Man, was interpolated 00:07:10.269 --> 00:07:14.230 by Ava Max. If all of the kings put their queens 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:18.069 on the throne. We would pop champagne and make 00:07:18.069 --> 00:07:21.689 a toast. It's the same chords, the same melody, 00:07:21.810 --> 00:07:24.430 same everything. So, of course, they came to 00:07:24.430 --> 00:07:29.089 me and I became a co -writer on that song. Awesome. 00:07:29.689 --> 00:07:32.170 Between my years of radio as well as playing 00:07:32.170 --> 00:07:34.769 in cover bands myself, I can't count the number 00:07:34.769 --> 00:07:37.350 of times someone's come up to me and saying, 00:07:37.589 --> 00:07:40.430 hey, could you play Shot Through the Heart by 00:07:40.430 --> 00:07:43.610 Bon Jovi? And I know they clearly meant You Give 00:07:43.610 --> 00:07:46.649 Love a Bad Name, since a lot of people had no 00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:49.529 idea at the time that Shot Through the Heart 00:07:49.529 --> 00:07:52.189 was a completely different song from the band's 00:07:52.189 --> 00:07:56.949 1984 self -titled album. Growing up, I had heard 00:07:56.949 --> 00:07:59.399 the first two Bon Jovi albums. because of my 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.779 older cousins who were into the band being from 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:05.939 New Jersey, I simply assumed that the shot through 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:09.279 the heart lyrics in bad name were a wink, wink, 00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:12.259 nudge, nudge. If you know, you know, call back 00:08:12.259 --> 00:08:15.959 to that first album. Was that the case? Well, 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:19.019 no, I think for him, it was more like he threw 00:08:19.019 --> 00:08:22.160 it in saying, I know this is a great hook shot 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.959 through the heart. And so he has said, you know, 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:26.740 that I wrote a song with that title, but I want 00:08:26.740 --> 00:08:29.089 to use it in this song. So, you know, it's like 00:08:29.089 --> 00:08:32.289 we were finding, you know, bits and pieces from 00:08:32.289 --> 00:08:35.470 different songs, you know, that we had written 00:08:35.470 --> 00:08:39.110 and just made, you know, kind of Bride of Frankenstein. 00:08:39.909 --> 00:08:43.289 Another example of that was the double callback 00:08:43.289 --> 00:08:47.730 in Aerosmith's classic What It Takes from 1989's 00:08:47.730 --> 00:08:50.870 Pump, the line. Girl, before I met you, I was 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:54.429 F -I -N -E fine, but your love made me a prisoner. 00:08:54.529 --> 00:08:57.629 Yeah, my heart's been doing time. Right, which 00:08:57.629 --> 00:09:00.909 I co -wrote both, fine and heart's doing time. 00:09:01.250 --> 00:09:04.629 Yes. Now, since What It Takes was the closing 00:09:04.629 --> 00:09:08.789 song on Pump, was that lyrical section meant 00:09:08.789 --> 00:09:12.110 to be kind of the stamp at the end of like the 00:09:12.110 --> 00:09:16.049 permanent vacation slash Pump era? I think you're 00:09:16.049 --> 00:09:20.220 thinking too deeply into it. I have a tendency 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:23.820 to do that. That would be so cool. Like, you 00:09:23.820 --> 00:09:26.820 know, a Paul is dead kind of like theory, you 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:30.259 know, with it. But no, I think it was just one 00:09:30.259 --> 00:09:32.620 of those things, you know, it was just another 00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:36.879 song. And Stephen likes to. you know, repeat 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:39.419 certain things. Like he'd love, you know, he 00:09:39.419 --> 00:09:41.519 always is going, when he can't think of lyrics, 00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:44.379 he always goes, yabba dabba dabba dabba dabba, 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:47.200 you know, like that. And so I always, my nickname 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.120 for him is yabba dabba, you know, yabba dabba 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.759 doo, you know, like Fred Flintstone, right? And 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.360 so I remember he was once trying to, like we 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:59.620 wrote a couple of songs and he was trying to 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:03.220 throw in the line, my paycheck swallowed a trout. 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.500 And it was like, what? My paycheck swallowed 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:11.720 a trout. What does that mean? And he said, I 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.080 just think it sounds cool. And then ultimately 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.220 he put that in a song that he co -wrote with 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.960 somebody else. And I said, there it is. There 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:23.960 it goes. My paycheck swallowed a trout. What 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:29.039 is that? Well, having written dozens of songs 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.500 with both Bon Jovi and Aerosmith, are there any 00:10:32.500 --> 00:10:35.120 songs that maybe weren't released as singles, 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.299 album tracks, if you will, that you look back 00:10:37.299 --> 00:10:40.460 and wonder why the song wasn't released as a 00:10:40.460 --> 00:10:43.240 single? Because for me personally, when I hear 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.179 tracks like Bon Jovi's Blood on Blood from New 00:10:46.179 --> 00:10:49.519 Jersey or Aerosmith's Ain't That a Bitch from 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:53.220 Nine Lives, I immediately think, how were these 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:58.190 not hit singles on the radio? I don't know. You 00:10:58.190 --> 00:11:00.169 know, it's like one of those things, you know, 00:11:00.169 --> 00:11:06.009 certain songs take priority and then the promotional 00:11:06.009 --> 00:11:10.690 dollars run out or their wick of promotion runs 00:11:10.690 --> 00:11:14.230 out. I mean, I got so lucky with Waking Up in 00:11:14.230 --> 00:11:16.970 Vegas because I co -wrote that with Katy Perry 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:21.750 and Andreas Carlson. She was between record deals. 00:11:22.090 --> 00:11:25.500 She had been in The Matrix. as the lead singer 00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:28.179 there. And then right before she got a deal at 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:31.860 Columbia Records with Steve Greenberg, one of 00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:35.220 our great friends. So we wrote Waking Up in Vegas. 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.000 And so she went on to Columbia and that was the 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.480 lead song that would have been her first single. 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:45.779 But then Steve Greenberg got fired from Columbia 00:11:45.779 --> 00:11:48.940 and they let go of his three acts. Want to hear 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:51.779 who they were? Yeah, of course. Fountains of 00:11:51.779 --> 00:11:56.000 Wayne. Huh. Katy Perry and the Jonas Brothers. 00:11:56.379 --> 00:12:00.580 Wow. They just cut those three bands loose. And 00:12:00.580 --> 00:12:03.440 so, of course, she went on to, I think, RCA. 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:09.679 And has had a magnificent career there. And so 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:14.740 that's when she got in there. She started working 00:12:14.740 --> 00:12:18.860 with Max Martin and his team. And they came up 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:23.149 with unbelievable songs. Oh my God, what was 00:12:23.149 --> 00:12:25.190 the first one? I Kissed a Girl? I Kissed a Girl, 00:12:25.269 --> 00:12:28.250 yes. And then Hot and Cold. It was like three 00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:31.169 number ones in a row. And Waking Up in Vegas 00:12:31.169 --> 00:12:33.149 was like down, you know, of course, you know, 00:12:33.169 --> 00:12:36.389 down, down, down. And I said, oh my God, that's 00:12:36.389 --> 00:12:39.470 like a number one song too. And finally, finally, 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:42.090 finally, they released it as the fourth single 00:12:42.090 --> 00:12:45.490 and it goes all the way to number one. But the 00:12:45.490 --> 00:12:49.149 dumbest thing that happened was there was a movie 00:12:49.149 --> 00:12:53.470 called The Hangover. And I was trying to submit 00:12:53.470 --> 00:12:56.769 songs for it. And then I felt like, okay, Waking 00:12:56.769 --> 00:12:59.850 Up in Vegas is the best song for this. And some 00:12:59.850 --> 00:13:04.330 dumb music supervisor said, no, man, it's got 00:13:04.330 --> 00:13:07.149 to be all male songs because it's all guys and 00:13:07.149 --> 00:13:09.950 things. I said, but don't they have girlfriends? 00:13:10.710 --> 00:13:14.210 No, man, you know, it can't be any women on this 00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:17.330 soundtrack. And I said, but this is going to 00:13:17.330 --> 00:13:19.740 be a number one song with Katy Perry. Put it 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:22.120 in your movie. They came out at the same time. 00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:25.240 They were both, the movie and the song were hit 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.000 shows. You know, The Hangover, my God. But Waking 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.960 Up in Vegas was made for that movie. And it was 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:35.159 like, how dumb is that? Because then the cross 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:38.720 promotion would have been fantastic on a global 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.899 scale. But you know, what can I do? You know, 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.720 I can't control everything. But I can't complain 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.529 that I also... Didn't lose because it became 00:13:49.529 --> 00:13:53.309 number one anyway. There you go. And while we 00:13:53.309 --> 00:13:56.409 were talking about Aerosmith on episode 54, you 00:13:56.409 --> 00:13:58.649 and I talked about Dude Looks Like a Lady and 00:13:58.649 --> 00:14:01.610 Angel from Permanent Vacation. But I'd like to 00:14:01.610 --> 00:14:03.909 talk about another song you wrote during those 00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:07.309 sessions, which was their future smash hit Crazy. 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:10.500 Even though it was written during the permanent 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:14.080 vacation cycle, it was held through the pump 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.320 cycle and then finally released on Get a Grip. 00:14:17.460 --> 00:14:20.360 And I've read that the band did that so they 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:23.840 could, quote unquote, spread out their ballads. 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.460 From your knowledge, was that actually the case 00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:31.200 there? Maybe. I mean, Stephen always had this 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.580 kind of slight resentment that people like me 00:14:34.580 --> 00:14:37.019 and Diane Warren were like pop writers, kind 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:42.830 of like. entering the sacred circle of rock that 00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:47.490 they feel they lived in and we did not. And the 00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:50.610 biggest song they ever did was I Don't Want to 00:14:50.610 --> 00:14:52.450 Miss a Thing. They weren't able to do a show 00:14:52.450 --> 00:14:55.009 without that song and it came from a movie. And 00:14:55.009 --> 00:14:57.110 that's how they justified in their head. They 00:14:57.110 --> 00:14:59.250 were not co -writers on it. It was all Diane 00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:02.070 Warren. That song should have won the Oscar, 00:15:02.169 --> 00:15:06.750 but some Disney diddy, they outspent whatever. 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.080 And she didn't get it. You know, she still hasn't. 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:14.340 She's on her like 16th Oscar nomination. And 00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:17.799 even Steven was like kind of slagging her a little 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:20.120 bit in People magazine. You know, just like, 00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:22.799 well, you know, she's a pop writer, you know, 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.700 whatever. You know, we just did it for the movie. 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:28.500 I mean, you know, it's not our kind of music. 00:15:28.940 --> 00:15:32.720 I mean, and so, you know, when I came into the 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.500 picture, they had done. an album called Done 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:38.980 With Mirrors. Yes. And it was, you know, received 00:15:38.980 --> 00:15:43.100 kind of disappointingly. And so John Klodner, 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:47.840 their epic A &R guy, forced me into their circle. 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.820 They didn't want it. And, you know, the very 00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:54.480 first day that I met them, we wrote Dude Looks 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.559 Like a Lady. But even then, you know, Stephen, 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.379 in his autobiography, was slagging me, saying, 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.899 well, he didn't really write anything on it, 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.100 maybe just a few little words. I don't even know 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:09.700 why his name's on it. And he described me, well, 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.080 I actually looked more like what he described 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.679 me. He said he looked like, he walked in there 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.460 with a mustache that looked like Juan Valdez, 00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:21.019 which was kind of like an insult to Latinos, 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:25.169 because I am Cuban. But I never had, okay, I 00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:28.570 have a goatee right now, but I never sported 00:16:28.570 --> 00:16:33.350 a 70s porn mustache, okay? On its own, you know? 00:16:33.769 --> 00:16:39.009 And so, then Joe, in his autobiography that was 00:16:39.009 --> 00:16:42.070 co -written by my co -author, David Ritz, before 00:16:42.070 --> 00:16:45.190 I'd started my book, said, oh, well, you know, 00:16:45.250 --> 00:16:47.470 Desmond came up with the title, Dude Looks Like 00:16:47.470 --> 00:16:51.210 a Lady. And it was like, I didn't. That was Stephen's 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:54.690 title. Like they both had it wrong. And so I 00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:58.110 was like, ah. So in my book, I set the record 00:16:58.110 --> 00:17:01.590 straight. And then Stephen came over to my office 00:17:01.590 --> 00:17:04.170 a couple of years ago and I sat him down and 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:07.730 said, okay, look, this is how it went down, right? 00:17:08.170 --> 00:17:11.569 And he looked off into space and he said, yeah, 00:17:11.789 --> 00:17:21.279 I like your story better than mine. As far as 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.480 delaying, I mean, I thought that Cryin' and Crazy 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:26.740 were too similar. They shouldn't have been on 00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:29.359 the same record. But they were. And they both 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.019 were hits. What can I tell you? Cryin' Crazy. 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:38.380 I mean, exactly. What could I do? Yeah. I was 00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:40.960 happy it got on the record. And I was happy it 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.539 was also a hit. By all means. Well, I want to 00:17:44.539 --> 00:17:47.440 dive into some of these rock songs that you have 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.039 worked on. And the first one I want to touch 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.680 on is Alice Cooper's Poison, the hit track written 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.500 by you, Alice, and John McCurry. Now, from my 00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:00.700 knowledge of the song, the opening guitar riff 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:04.269 was originally written and used by John. for 00:18:04.269 --> 00:18:07.670 the John Waite track, Encircled. And I'd love 00:18:07.670 --> 00:18:11.349 to know how it was transformed into Poison during 00:18:11.349 --> 00:18:15.369 the songwriting process. Well, Alice and I had 00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:18.410 already written the song Poison. And then in 00:18:18.410 --> 00:18:20.509 the studio while we were building the track, 00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:24.529 I said, oh, it'd be so cool if we had some kind 00:18:24.529 --> 00:18:28.789 of freaky, angular intro. And he said, oh, well, 00:18:28.849 --> 00:18:31.420 I got this. I didn't know it was, this is the 00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:33.460 first time I'm hearing has anything to do with 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:36.119 John Waite. The first time. I never heard that 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.240 before. He didn't say it and no one's ever brought 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.960 it up before. And it's cool in a way, but he 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.460 came up with that riff and the riff was so strong. 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.880 We gave him co -writing credit on the song because 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.420 it's so signature. We couldn't not just say, 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.279 oh, well, you're just a musician. Thank you very 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.539 much. We couldn't do that. That was a class act 00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.140 on both your parts then. Yes. I mean, you know, 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.200 I'm not greedy like that and I'm always a collaborator. 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.220 So what's the difference? Two collaborators, 00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:09.740 three collaborators, or like on Kings and Queens, 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.240 for some reason, I have like 12 collaborators. 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:17.019 Yes. Yes. Well, let's shrink the collaborators 00:19:17.019 --> 00:19:20.019 down to a band and one other person, that band 00:19:20.019 --> 00:19:24.440 being Rat and Arthur Payson, where you worked 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.819 in 1990 on the band's Detonator album. Can you 00:19:27.819 --> 00:19:30.460 talk about... That experience working with Rat 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:33.180 on hits like Love and Use a Dirty Job and Shame, 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:37.599 Shame, Shame? Now, was I a co -producer on that 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.579 or was I the executive producer on that album? 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.859 You were the executive producer. Apologies. I 00:19:43.859 --> 00:19:45.819 don't know what happened because I was working 00:19:45.819 --> 00:19:50.480 on my own album, Discipline, and then they kind 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.759 of asked me to come and produce that record. 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.640 And I said, well, I have to promote my own record. 00:19:57.109 --> 00:20:00.470 which was like a two -year operation. I wasn't 00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:03.710 successful, but I was going to give it my last 00:20:03.710 --> 00:20:07.369 shot. I was already like 41 years old. So I wrote 00:20:07.369 --> 00:20:11.529 all the songs except for one of them. But I did 00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:15.509 kind of tweak that song with them for the record. 00:20:16.190 --> 00:20:19.230 And it was a kind of difficult time for them 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:23.109 because King was going through a lot and then 00:20:23.109 --> 00:20:27.700 he finally died. And so... Arthur was my engineer 00:20:27.700 --> 00:20:32.000 and Arthur had a family, you know, and they had 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.559 moved to California when I did to continue working 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.599 with me. So they were living in New York and 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:39.319 they locked stock and barrel, moved to California. 00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:43.400 And then I was like, well, why doesn't Arthur 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.180 be the producer and I'll be the executive producer? 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:49.539 And so that's how we worked because I wanted 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:52.720 to make sure that Arthur was still being employed. 00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:55.880 Because I felt, you know, very responsible for 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.160 his family moving there. And I was going to be 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.779 out of commission for two years. So we did that 00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:04.940 with Kane Roberts. We did that with this New 00:21:04.940 --> 00:21:08.180 Jersey band that played a song of mine, Timeless 00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:11.579 Love, on the Shocker soundtrack. Soraya, yes. 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:17.099 Kane Roberts, Rat, and there was like another 00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:22.019 record. Oh, Mitch Malloy also. So that kept... 00:21:22.109 --> 00:21:25.750 arthur busy for the next two years engineering 00:21:25.750 --> 00:21:29.210 and producing those records and i was co -writing 00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:32.390 when i could and contributing songs and then 00:21:32.390 --> 00:21:34.849 you know kind of sometimes serving as an executive 00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:38.349 producer well we talked about your work with 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:40.650 Joan Jett on volume one at a little bit of a 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:42.710 higher level, but I'd like to dive a little bit 00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:45.970 deeper into your work with her as I Hate Myself 00:21:45.970 --> 00:21:48.630 for Loving You and Little Liar are two of my 00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:51.490 absolute favorite songs from across her discography. 00:21:51.970 --> 00:21:55.069 Having produced I Hate Myself, I've always wondered 00:21:55.069 --> 00:21:58.130 how Mick Taylor from the Rolling Stones came 00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:01.329 on board to play guitar solo on that track. And 00:22:01.329 --> 00:22:03.769 I'd love to hear what you felt he brought to 00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:07.740 the song. Well, he brought his name. And it's 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:11.619 credibility. And, you know, that was important 00:22:11.619 --> 00:22:14.039 for her at that moment, you know, for the press 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.140 and to say, yeah, you know. And so I think we 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:21.119 had a solo on there by Ricky Burt. And then we'd 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.920 switched it. And, you know, it came out great. 00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:26.740 I mean, I think it sounds really wonderful. But, 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:28.859 you know, everybody would know he goes there. 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.099 Everybody was just willing to do whatever it 00:22:31.099 --> 00:22:35.480 took to make Joan like explode because it was 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.140 her time. And I want to dive into that a little 00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:41.859 bit because Little Liar was a song where Joan 00:22:41.859 --> 00:22:45.500 was being very open and raw and vulnerable in 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:48.339 the track, which is a bit of a pivot from her 00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:51.700 bad reputation days. Was that something that 00:22:51.700 --> 00:22:54.160 you and her were looking to achieve with that 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:58.160 song? You know, with Joan, she's an instinctual 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:01.660 person. There was a lot of intellectual talking 00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:05.539 about ideas. It was just like... the song just 00:23:05.539 --> 00:23:09.920 kind of wrote itself in a way. And I'm sure that 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.400 she had had experiences in her life that she 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.000 related to the lyric, you know, but of course 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.559 I knew nothing about her personal life. And so, 00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:23.240 you know, usually I can get all the artists I 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.599 work with to be little chatty Cathy's and tell 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.019 me everything because I usually like I'm writing, 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.140 sort of traditionally writing down what they're 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:33.490 saying. And then when we finally get around to 00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:35.369 the songwriting, I said, well, you know, when 00:23:35.369 --> 00:23:38.569 you were talking, you said this line. It's like, 00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:43.490 okay, did I? Okay. And so that always can open 00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:48.630 a door into a kind of like more authentic lyric. 00:23:49.049 --> 00:23:53.049 But Joan is like very mysterious person. I saw 00:23:53.049 --> 00:23:55.990 her recently at the Ryman, got to see her again 00:23:55.990 --> 00:23:59.509 after, since 2000, I hadn't seen her in person 00:23:59.509 --> 00:24:02.980 since 2008. when I was inducted into the Songwriters 00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:06.240 Hall of Fame, and she inducted me. And so she 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.559 was so gracious, and she wrote the most beautiful 00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.619 introductory speech. So I hadn't seen her since 00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:16.200 then. And it was just so wonderful to see her 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.720 on stage. And, you know, she looked like she 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.640 was 16 years old. I mean, she just looked fantastic. 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:25.539 Her body is incredible, her movements, and just 00:24:25.539 --> 00:24:28.539 the way she spoke to the audience was very giving 00:24:28.539 --> 00:24:33.789 and funny. And it was a spectacular show. So 00:24:33.789 --> 00:24:37.089 I just adore her. And we were so kind of lucky 00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:39.829 too that it was originally Monday Night Football, 00:24:40.029 --> 00:24:42.410 and then they became Sunday Night Football. And 00:24:42.410 --> 00:24:46.690 so I worked on interpolating those lyrics into, 00:24:46.869 --> 00:24:49.250 you know, can't wait for Sunday night or whatever 00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:52.690 it turned out to be, right? Waiting all day for 00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:54.430 Sunday night. For Sunday night. Yeah, waiting 00:24:54.430 --> 00:24:58.069 all day for Sunday night. And so that song was 00:24:58.069 --> 00:25:03.539 sung by Faith Hill. Pink, Carrie Underwood. And 00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:06.539 then Carrie decided to write her own theme and 00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:09.339 it lasted a couple of years. And then by popular 00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:12.119 demand, it went back to the other theme. And 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:16.119 so then just last year, Dolly Parton recorded 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:20.900 the song featuring JoJet. And so I got a call 00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:24.059 from Dolly's office that she's got a gold plaque 00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:27.000 waiting for me over there for me to pick up. 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.309 So I'm hoping. It worked out that I could, you 00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:32.269 know, I can have a picture of her handing it 00:25:32.269 --> 00:25:37.390 to me. But we talked a little bit about Dolly, 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:40.789 me and Joan backstage. And, you know, how wonderful 00:25:40.789 --> 00:25:46.369 she felt working with her. I mean, that's a real 00:25:46.369 --> 00:25:50.170 star, you know, like Dolly Parton. And the good 00:25:50.170 --> 00:25:54.869 kind, you know, so generous, so humble and self 00:25:54.869 --> 00:25:57.930 -effacing. And she doesn't take herself so seriously. 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:01.839 which she always makes people feel good and comfortable. 00:26:02.140 --> 00:26:06.099 And she's also been a tremendous supporter of 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:11.839 LGBTQ rights and in kind of a Southern world 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:14.859 where it's been going in the opposite direction. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.420 So it's wonderful that somebody of her stature 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:22.039 is handing out hope, you know, putting out hope 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.289 out there for a young LGBTQ. Kids that look up 00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:29.470 to her, they're in their small communities and 00:26:29.470 --> 00:26:32.890 afraid to come out or, you know, just feel like 00:26:32.890 --> 00:26:36.309 outcasts. And she just brings them all in. And 00:26:36.309 --> 00:26:39.630 I just love that about her. And that's why Dolly's 00:26:39.630 --> 00:26:42.799 a national treasure. Well, with all of the news 00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.279 of Mike Portnoy being back in the Dream Theater 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.059 fold and their upcoming album and tour, I'd like 00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:50.400 to touch on the song you co -wrote with the band 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:54.700 in 1997, You Not Me, for their Falling Into Infinity 00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:58.720 album. Was that your first foray into writing 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.819 progressive rock? And what did you take away 00:27:01.819 --> 00:27:05.400 from that experience? Well, it was kind of weird 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:09.500 because I just wrote with him and it was just 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:13.059 me and him. So then he goes away and then the 00:27:13.059 --> 00:27:15.359 manager comes back and says, OK, well, Dedman's 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.640 a co -writer with the whole band. It's like, 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:21.420 no, I'm not. I co -wrote it with him 50 -50. 00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.599 And so we struggle for that for a long time. 00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.900 I don't know what the credits say, but, you know, 00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:30.700 I got half the song because I did my work, you 00:27:30.700 --> 00:27:34.099 know. And so sometimes bands are weird like that, 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.160 where, you know, the other members who aren't 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.339 writers want credit. Because that's their income. 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.960 See? So, I mean, I think that, you know, Aerosmith 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.859 worked it out the best because it's like Stephen 00:27:47.859 --> 00:27:51.400 and Joe are the main writers. Sometimes they're 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.980 collaborating with other people separately, like 00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:56.819 Joe wrote Hearts on Time with me and Stephen 00:27:56.819 --> 00:28:01.859 wrote Angel with me without Joe. But the other 00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:04.220 members of the band had an equal piece of the 00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.319 publishing because of their musical contributions. 00:28:08.630 --> 00:28:11.089 But, you know, fighting, you know, over, you 00:28:11.089 --> 00:28:14.829 know, well, you know, pieces of songs, you know, 00:28:14.829 --> 00:28:19.329 is terrible because it's business. Maybe you 00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:21.490 could say, okay, the publishing is business, 00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:25.390 but the songwriting, that's different because 00:28:25.390 --> 00:28:28.230 why take credit for something that you didn't 00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:31.430 do just to get a piece of something so that you 00:28:31.430 --> 00:28:34.670 get more money? And it's always because the lead 00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:37.109 singer usually is writing the songs and then 00:28:37.109 --> 00:28:39.569 usually with the other star, which is the lead 00:28:39.569 --> 00:28:43.150 guitarist. So that's what happened with Dream 00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:46.589 Theater. And so he never came back to write more, 00:28:46.710 --> 00:28:49.529 maybe because it was kind of I didn't do what 00:28:49.529 --> 00:28:53.670 they said or what they wanted. And, you know, 00:28:53.690 --> 00:28:56.130 it was like one of those things where, I mean, 00:28:56.170 --> 00:28:59.990 it wasn't even in my world and they sought me 00:28:59.990 --> 00:29:03.619 out. Maybe he did just because he thought, well, 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:06.420 why not? But we did come up with a good song. 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.640 That's a great song, yeah. That's that. And it's 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:13.039 a shame that we didn't continue our writing relationship 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.859 over a business matter. But if you're going to 00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:18.460 do something like that, you have to say it up 00:29:18.460 --> 00:29:21.720 front. And I would have said, okay, well, look, 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.519 if you want to split the credit, fine. But guess 00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:27.299 what? I sell at 50 and you split your 50 with 00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:30.400 them. Like I said, Aerosmith did it the best 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.299 because they all shared on the publishing side. 00:29:34.410 --> 00:29:37.029 Well, I would certainly catch flack from the 00:29:37.029 --> 00:29:39.410 My Weekly Mixtape Kiss fans if we didn't touch 00:29:39.410 --> 00:29:41.890 on a few more songs that you co -wrote with them. 00:29:41.970 --> 00:29:44.009 And I'd like to take a look at the pair of singles 00:29:44.009 --> 00:29:47.589 you worked with the band on their 1988 compilation, 00:29:48.170 --> 00:29:51.750 Smashes, Thrashes and Hits. The songs Let's Put 00:29:51.750 --> 00:29:55.470 the X in Sex and You Make Me Rock Hard, the latter 00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.069 of which was co -written with Diane Warren, someone 00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.269 we talked about earlier. Now, Paul Stanley recorded. 00:30:01.849 --> 00:30:05.809 both of those tracks on his own in 1988. Were 00:30:05.809 --> 00:30:09.910 those songs written with the smashes, thrashes, 00:30:09.950 --> 00:30:12.490 and hits track listing in mind? Because a lot 00:30:12.490 --> 00:30:15.509 of the songs on that compilation kind of pull 00:30:15.509 --> 00:30:18.690 from that same vein and that same mindset. Even 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:21.390 some of the songs they remixed from the earlier 00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:24.930 albums. Wow, you know more than me. I have no 00:30:24.930 --> 00:30:27.829 idea what you're talking about. I'm a big music 00:30:27.829 --> 00:30:33.240 nerd, sorry. Well, somebody's gotta be. Um, I 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.880 never thought that deeply into it. And, um, let's 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.799 put the X in sex. You know, I just love that 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.160 song and you make me rock hard. It was funny 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.859 because I dragged Diane Warren into it and she 00:30:47.859 --> 00:30:51.380 didn't even want to do the session. You know, 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.700 I say, come on, Diane, you can do this. Kiss. 00:30:53.900 --> 00:30:55.980 I don't know anything about rock music. What 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.269 are you talking about? Come on. And so we had 00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:00.769 coffee before we went into the session. I said, 00:31:00.829 --> 00:31:04.549 well, let's walk in with a title. And we came 00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:08.309 up with, you make me rock hard, which is a double 00:31:08.309 --> 00:31:12.730 entendre. You make me rock hard or rock hard. 00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:17.089 But we said it like, let's just throw out there 00:31:17.089 --> 00:31:20.910 as a joke, as an icebreaker. And Paul looked 00:31:20.910 --> 00:31:23.809 at us and said, I like that. And we looked at 00:31:23.809 --> 00:31:25.789 each other like, you're kidding me. That's like 00:31:25.789 --> 00:31:29.240 one of the worst titles. ever written. And so, 00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:31.920 you know, it was kind of a novelty song. It's 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.599 like a joke because it's like so overtly sexual. 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:39.740 But, you know, it worked. And, you know, there 00:31:39.740 --> 00:31:41.980 was another song like that that Paul and I had 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:44.640 written, I think with, I'm not quite sure it 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:49.779 was either Jean Beauvoir or the guitarist. It's 00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:52.920 called All Night. Jean Beauvoir, yes. I mean, 00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:56.200 you work all day and then you got all night. 00:31:56.670 --> 00:31:59.930 I mean, that's like very, very sexual. And then 00:31:59.930 --> 00:32:03.049 who did we write Reason to Live With? Because 00:32:03.049 --> 00:32:05.670 that's really my favorite Kiss song. Was that 00:32:05.670 --> 00:32:09.170 just me and Paul? As far as I know, yes. Because 00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:12.150 that's like my favorite Kiss song. It's a great 00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:15.430 tune. Now... I do want to pivot to something 00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:18.069 a little bit outside of rock here. And this is 00:32:18.069 --> 00:32:22.470 because earlier this year, you had some co -writing 00:32:22.470 --> 00:32:25.309 sessions with the man responsible for writing 00:32:25.309 --> 00:32:28.829 the first song that I, as a child, ever fell 00:32:28.829 --> 00:32:31.130 in love with. And it's my favorite song of all 00:32:31.130 --> 00:32:33.980 time, that being Rainbow Connection. with the 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:37.579 writer being Paul Williams. Seeing you two combine 00:32:37.579 --> 00:32:41.680 forces on a song or maybe songs, it immediately 00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:43.980 piqued my interest. And I'd love to know, is 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:46.920 there anything you'd maybe willing to share about 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.900 those writing sessions? Well, that came up because 00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:54.440 we auctioned, you know, writing a song for the 00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:59.019 ASCAP Foundation. And so I had had a fundraiser 00:32:59.019 --> 00:33:02.869 at our New York apartment. And, you know, we 00:33:02.869 --> 00:33:06.589 auctioned off this songwriting session and we 00:33:06.589 --> 00:33:09.950 wrote a song called Freedom is the Dance. And 00:33:09.950 --> 00:33:12.569 it's such a beautiful song. And the person who 00:33:12.569 --> 00:33:15.529 bought the session, I mean, they're not co -writers 00:33:15.529 --> 00:33:17.890 or own the song or anything, but they donated 00:33:17.890 --> 00:33:21.630 big money so that we would write this song. And 00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:24.670 he wanted it to have a theme about being an immigrant 00:33:24.670 --> 00:33:27.109 coming to this country because he came here from 00:33:27.109 --> 00:33:29.490 the Philippines. There's two versions of the 00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:32.930 song. The one that's... more kind of about that 00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:35.849 story. And then we wrote a second version that 00:33:35.849 --> 00:33:38.410 was just more like the rest of the song. And 00:33:38.410 --> 00:33:41.390 so we said, okay, well, we're going to have to 00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:44.930 do it again for the next Ask Up Foundation auction. 00:33:45.549 --> 00:33:48.190 And I said, okay, great. But I want to write 00:33:48.190 --> 00:33:52.269 a song for Barbra Streisand with you. So we'll 00:33:52.269 --> 00:33:55.509 see what happens with that. Well, I'm not sure 00:33:55.509 --> 00:33:57.410 many people know this. And if you thought I was 00:33:57.410 --> 00:33:59.509 a nerd before, this certainly isn't going to 00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:03.039 help. my cause in any way, shape or form. But 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.200 you, like Paul Williams, have also written a 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.579 song for the one and only Kermit the Frog as 00:34:09.579 --> 00:34:12.480 you co -wrote the track Everyone Matters with 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.559 David Sigerson for It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.599 Movie in 2002, with that song receiving an Emmy 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.440 nomination for Outstanding Music and Lyrics. 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:26.320 Is there a different mindset involved when you 00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:30.320 write a song for a quote unquote character such 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.440 as Kermit the Frog versus when you write with 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:40.599 or for a band or artist? Well, no. I mean, we 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.400 had the storyline and there was a moment in the 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:50.519 show where he sings this song and It just came 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.099 to us to write a song called Everyone Matters. 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:58.420 And it was a very profound song because if you 00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:00.619 just think about what those words are saying, 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:07.300 so many people don't matter to the world and 00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:10.900 we're saying everyone matters. Everyone has a 00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:16.539 soul and everyone deserves respect. And so I 00:35:16.539 --> 00:35:19.929 was so pleased that we got it. I got my first 00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:23.690 Emmy nomination for writing that song. And it 00:35:23.690 --> 00:35:26.389 was very cute because Jim Henson had already 00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:28.949 passed away. So the guy that took over his voice 00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:32.949 came to the studio in Miami, long, straight, 00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:36.909 long hair, like real hippie type. And he got 00:35:36.909 --> 00:35:40.130 behind the mic. And that was the only time ever 00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:44.079 that our studio, which was very small. got packed 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.139 like 50 people came to see that session like 00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:49.880 some the word went out and everybody from down 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.420 the street the other studios they all came running 00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:55.599 to hear him sing it and it was like amazing how 00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:57.699 he just like got in front of the mic okay everything 00:35:57.699 --> 00:36:00.099 okay okay and then he kind of did a little cough 00:36:00.099 --> 00:36:02.860 and then he went into the Kermit voice and it 00:36:02.860 --> 00:36:07.619 was like wow it was like goosebumps how it came 00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:10.699 to life But he told this sweet story. He said 00:36:10.699 --> 00:36:15.960 that he had gone to Royal Albert Hall for a command 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.440 performance of the Queen of England and lined 00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.840 up on the stage were all the people that performed 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.860 that night. You know, Sir Paul McCartney, Sir 00:36:26.860 --> 00:36:30.039 Rod Stewart, all these people were all lined 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.239 up, the biggest stars of all time. And Kermit 00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.199 was there and he was on somebody's shoulder, 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.630 right? And so she's walking by kind of, you know, 00:36:38.630 --> 00:36:41.389 kind of coldly, kind of like nodding her head. 00:36:41.489 --> 00:36:44.550 And then she stops, looks at Kermit and says, 00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:48.769 and you're here too. Like she became like a little 00:36:48.769 --> 00:36:52.750 girl. How cute is that? That's amazing. Totally 00:36:52.750 --> 00:36:55.889 broke her spell of being the monarch. And she 00:36:55.889 --> 00:36:58.210 became a little girl. I just love that story 00:36:58.210 --> 00:37:02.010 so much. Well, tonight we've been talking about 00:37:02.010 --> 00:37:04.969 songs you've written for and with other artists 00:37:04.969 --> 00:37:07.070 and characters, but I'd like to take a moment 00:37:07.070 --> 00:37:10.590 to talk about a song you wrote for yourself because 00:37:10.590 --> 00:37:14.769 Desmond Child and Rouge's new single, Unpredictable, 00:37:14.809 --> 00:37:17.989 dropped earlier this year. Was there ever a, 00:37:18.030 --> 00:37:21.050 should I pass this on to another artist or keep 00:37:21.050 --> 00:37:23.530 it for myself moment for you when you were writing 00:37:23.530 --> 00:37:27.510 this track? Well, Desmond Child and Rouge, we 00:37:27.510 --> 00:37:30.340 started performing again. you know a different 00:37:30.340 --> 00:37:34.940 uh tributes to laura nero who was my you know 00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:38.880 our biggest influence and an idol and everyone 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:40.960 said oh you guys are so great and you know why 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.340 did you do more stuff so i did a solo show at 00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:49.340 lincoln center and they came on and we sang a 00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:53.440 couple of laura nero songs and we just said well 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.960 let's start making records again no pressure 00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:59.780 no nothing and We did Unpredictable. We have 00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:02.619 two more already in the can. And we're also working 00:38:02.619 --> 00:38:05.280 on a Laura Nero tribute album. We have four songs 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:08.619 recorded. And it's hard because everybody lives 00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:11.780 somewhere different. Miriam lives in upstate 00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:15.559 New York. I live in Nashville. Maria Vidal lives 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.300 in California. And Diana Griselli lives in the 00:38:19.300 --> 00:38:21.739 western part of Virginia, the state of Virginia. 00:38:27.980 --> 00:38:31.960 borders of the country. And we had my musical 00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:35.139 director, Clay Perry, learn all of Laura Nero's 00:38:35.139 --> 00:38:37.139 piano parts, which are very, you know, kind of 00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:40.940 complex, cool chords. And they sang in the middle 00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:43.820 of the room with baffled. I sang in a separate 00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.340 ISO booth and the piano was in its own booth. 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:50.320 And so we sang live. We sang, you know, we had 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:54.320 learned all the parts and we sang like maybe 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.619 four or five takes of each one of the songs. 00:38:57.159 --> 00:38:59.440 And so I've been putting that together. It just 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.119 sounds fantastic hearing our voices. And of course, 00:39:03.139 --> 00:39:06.440 you know, loving so much the music of Laura Nero. 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:11.539 So much so that I named my son Nero. There you 00:39:11.539 --> 00:39:15.559 have it. There you go. Love it. N -Y -R -O. That 00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.900 is amazing. Well, before I let you go, are you 00:39:18.900 --> 00:39:22.480 currently writing or co -writing any songs? I 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.880 know you mentioned The project you're working 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:27.619 on now, but stuff that maybe fans can expect 00:39:27.619 --> 00:39:30.599 to hear from you or from other artists in the 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.780 very near future? Well, you know, I've been working 00:39:34.780 --> 00:39:39.119 on my Broadway musical with David Sigerson called 00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:42.619 Cuba Libre. And it's the true story of my family 00:39:42.619 --> 00:39:45.739 before and after the Cuban Revolution. Wow. My 00:39:45.739 --> 00:39:48.260 mother had two younger sisters who were very 00:39:48.260 --> 00:39:50.800 beautiful. They became the It Girls of Havana. 00:39:51.389 --> 00:39:53.869 in the late 50s, and then into the revolution. 00:39:54.269 --> 00:39:58.510 And one of them became the mistress of the dictator, 00:39:58.670 --> 00:40:01.789 Fulgencio Batista. And the other one ended up 00:40:01.789 --> 00:40:05.730 being one of the lovers of Fidel Castro. So it's 00:40:05.730 --> 00:40:09.829 two sisters, two dictators, one Aileen. Wow, 00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:14.130 that sounds exciting. Yeah, yeah. And it's very, 00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:17.349 very exciting. I've been working on songs for 00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:21.070 Barbra Streisand for her next record. It's a 00:40:21.070 --> 00:40:24.710 duet record. So I can't actually even say a title. 00:40:24.869 --> 00:40:27.789 I signed that NDA. I'm not allowed to say anything 00:40:27.789 --> 00:40:31.429 about anything. But, you know, if people check 00:40:31.429 --> 00:40:36.110 in on my Instagram, Desmond .Child, there's always, 00:40:36.150 --> 00:40:39.210 you know, news and stuff I'm doing and snippets. 00:40:39.210 --> 00:40:41.769 And, you know, a lot of it right now is for the 00:40:41.769 --> 00:40:45.570 release of my audio book, which is so great because, 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:49.030 you know, you see here all these. writing tapes 00:40:49.030 --> 00:40:52.530 that I've mixed in there where I'm creating Live 00:40:52.530 --> 00:40:55.630 en la vida loca, you know, with Draco Rosa. You 00:40:55.630 --> 00:40:59.090 hear the start of the song, co -writing the very 00:40:59.090 --> 00:41:01.789 first day I met Joan Jett, I hate myself for 00:41:01.789 --> 00:41:05.210 loving you. You hear us coming up with the ideas 00:41:05.210 --> 00:41:08.030 and talking back and forth. It's so exciting. 00:41:08.130 --> 00:41:11.110 And waking up in Vegas with Katy Perry and Andreas 00:41:11.110 --> 00:41:13.610 Carlson. We're playing that, you know, hit me 00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:19.579 with your best shot, guitar, rhythm, done. Shut 00:41:19.579 --> 00:41:23.599 up and put your money. So Eddie Schwartz had 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:26.420 written, solely written, hit me with your best 00:41:26.420 --> 00:41:29.739 shot. And so I got to meet him many, many years 00:41:29.739 --> 00:41:31.860 later. And I said, oh, thank you for writing 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:37.440 my hit. He laughed. I love using that line. I 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:42.260 said it to Bruce Springsteen at the Music Cares. 00:41:42.420 --> 00:41:46.179 It was a tribute to Jon Bon Jovi. So on one side 00:41:46.179 --> 00:41:48.880 of him was. Bruce Springsteen, on the other side 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.579 of him was Paul McCartney. So I said to Bruce, 00:41:52.659 --> 00:41:55.079 I said, oh, thank you for writing all of my hits. 00:41:55.420 --> 00:41:58.179 And he got a big laugh out of that. Because, 00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:00.559 you know, basically, you know, you give love 00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:02.739 a bad name, that chorus is because the night, 00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:06.420 you know, kind of turned upside down. And then 00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:10.440 I went up to Paul McCartney. And I said, I wanted 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.780 to meet you because I wanted to let you know 00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:16.019 that your song Ob -La -Di Ob -La -Da is what 00:42:16.250 --> 00:42:18.889 gave me my name Desmond. You know, Desmond has 00:42:18.889 --> 00:42:21.989 a barrel in the marketplace. And the last line 00:42:21.989 --> 00:42:25.070 of the song is, Desmond stays at home and paints 00:42:25.070 --> 00:42:29.550 his pretty face. And at night, she's the singer 00:42:29.550 --> 00:42:32.849 in the band. Remember, because he was the singer 00:42:32.849 --> 00:42:36.710 in the band and Molly would stay at home. But 00:42:36.710 --> 00:42:39.829 the she is talking about, is it Molly? The she 00:42:39.829 --> 00:42:43.349 is talking about is Desmond. Yes. After he paints 00:42:43.349 --> 00:42:46.260 his pretty face. And he looked at me and said, 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.539 the cutest thing. He said, I always wondered 00:42:50.539 --> 00:42:55.039 if people understood that Desmond was gay. And 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:58.119 I said, I understood. That's why I named myself 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:02.219 Desmond. You know, it was so, so cute. And so 00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:05.400 I gave him my phone and he shot the selfie of 00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.800 me and him together. How cool is that? That is 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:12.119 legendary. Yeah. Like, how cool is that to be 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:17.360 able to say, photo. By Paul McCartney. Well, 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.900 I for one look forward to hearing what's next 00:43:19.900 --> 00:43:23.440 for you. Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big Life 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.760 is available now in audio book form, or if you 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:29.860 prefer to read the words yourself in print as 00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:33.000 well. Desmond, once again, this has truly been 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.739 an honor. Thank you so much for joining me again 00:43:35.739 --> 00:43:39.019 on my weekly mixtape. Oh, thank you so much. 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:41.940 It's an honor and call me anytime. And to those 00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:44.699 listening, remember, you can find My Weekly Mixtape 00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:48.000 on almost all the social media haunts at My Weekly 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.820 Mixtape. You can also head to MyWeeklyMixtape 00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:53.679 .com to check out the full catalog of My Weekly 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.099 Mixtape episodes. And if you like what you're 00:43:56.099 --> 00:43:57.940 hearing on the show, you can help me out by either 00:43:57.940 --> 00:44:00.539 telling a friend, leaving the show a five -star 00:44:00.539 --> 00:44:03.199 review wherever you're tuning in. or becoming 00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:06.820 a Patreon mixtaper at patreon .com forward slash 00:44:06.820 --> 00:44:10.400 myweeklymixtape. There you can enjoy ad -free 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:12.840 episodes of the show, become a future guest, 00:44:13.099 --> 00:44:16.199 chime in on future episode topics, and so much 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.619 more. That's all for this week. Thanks again 00:44:18.619 --> 00:44:21.420 for listening. And until next time, enjoy the 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:21.679 tunes.