Hey, what's going on? This is Barry from the
band Shinedown, and you're listening to my weekly
mixtape with Brian Colburn. And I say you should
listen to it because he's my new best friend,
and we listened to a lot of the same music growing
up, and you're going to have a lot of really
cool, eclectic things on the show from all genres
of music. But importantly, just listen. Have
fun. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape, a podcast
that takes the classic mixtape approach to building
a modern playlist. I'm your host, Brian Colburn.
Tonight, I am thrilled to be joined by Barry
Kirch, drummer for the band Shinedown. Barry,
welcome to the show, my friend. Good to be here.
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Well, I'd like
to start by asking all of my first -time guests,
what does the word mixtape mean to you? I guess
I'm a product of the 70s and child of the 80s.
For me, mixtape was the thing. And to me, it's
two things. Either you're making the mixtape
for your girlfriend, the love of your life, and
you're getting all the songs you can to prove
to her your love. But for me, more importantly,
it was getting those songs that you heard on
the radio and sitting there in a bedroom with
your little cassette player going. Record. OK,
got it. Got that song. Oh, that's a new song
for this. Because back in those days, you couldn't
you know, you had to listen to the radio to hear
that song. And once you had it on that tape,
you had that song. So it's the it's the nostalgia
and joy of really having to dig deep to search
out music, which you don't have to do anymore.
That's part of the reason I do this show each
week is to try to bring back some of that joy
of finding that song, because when you look for
things on Spotify, everything's so instantaneous
that. the joy of discovering that new song, it's
almost watered down compared to the way it was
when we were growing up. I agree. And I guess
I'm a curmudgeon in that way because I don't
like the instant gratification of the internet
these days and social media and all that kind
of stuff, though it's a wonderful tool. I get
frustrated sometimes because I do miss those
times of being introduced to a new band, and
it's like, oh, my friend had this CD that he
passed me, and I finally heard it, and it was
like, oh, wow, what is this? That's how I got
introduced to Nine Inch Nails was I'm an 80s
metalhead. I'm playing tennis in high school.
I'm on a tennis trip, and my friend Bao Nguyen,
he has a pretty hate machine CD. And I didn't
give it back to him. I kept listening to it,
listening to it. And that's why I'm a diehard
Nine Inch Nails fan, because that was a pivotal
moment in my life that changed my taste in music.
And it's those happy accidents or those neat
surprises that make music so much fun and personal
for yourselves. And that it is. So let's now
dive into the reason we're here tonight. And
that is to talk all things Shinedown. And I'd
like to kind of start. from the beginning, maybe
a top -level approach here. Sure. Could you talk
about the evolution of the band's music that's
taken place over the last 24 years and counting?
Oh, wow. How much time do we have? You know,
it's grown. I look back on it now, and when Shinedown
started, I was 25 years old. And I played like
a 25 -year -old person, a 25 -year -old musician.
I only had that much experience getting in there.
And the rest of us as well, we were all around
the same age. Brent was a little younger. Jason
at the time and Brad at the time were a couple
years older. So we were right within a year or
two of each other. And we were playing what we
felt at the time and what we grew up with. And
the early sound of Shinedown, I think, had...
Quite a bit more Southern influence that came
from Jason and Brad growing up in the Jacksonville
area, in the Northeast Florida area. I grew up
in the panhandle of Florida, but I'm a military
brat, so my exposure was different. They grew
up deep in that scene of Southern rock and Skinner
and stuff and all those things. And Brent being
a Tennessee boy who grew up primarily listening.
Not to Southern Rock, though he's a Southern
Rock fan, but he also listened to a lot of Motown
and things like that. He learned to sing by singing
Otis Redding because his parents were very religious.
And when they found his poison cassette in his
house, they threw it out and said, you need to
listen to this, you know? So it wasn't allowed.
So what was cool about Shinedown, especially
in those early days, was the mix of those things
and the excitement of being new to professional
studios and new to that side of the craft that.
I think has been honed over the years. And then
it grew, you know, the second record was a total
different journey. It was more trippy and things
of that nature. And it was kind of more raw because
we were doing it almost home studio based because
we didn't have a lot of time to do it because
the label's like, okay, first record's done.
We need another one in six months. And, you know,
we were having to write and get it done. And
there was a lot of pressure because though the
first record did really well, it didn't do well
enough to where they weren't worried about us
having a second record. You know, it was like,
we got to get through this hump or we might not
be here. And the band at the time was pretty
tumultuous. There was a lot of infighting. There
was a lot of things going on that made it difficult
to be, even though we were a band of brothers,
it was just a hard time. And then growing into
Sound of Madness is when I kind of everything
changed. And there was, you know, Dave Bassett
was brought in with Brent to write some stuff.
And, you know, the writing, I think, became more
sophisticated. Brent really focused more. on
his lyrics in there he had something to prove
all of a sudden this thing went off in his brain
and there was more of something to prove like
you listen to sound of madness the song compared
to like 45 45 was like uh the world's looking
in at me sound of madison's like i'm gonna be
that person and that's what really changed the
trajectory of our career and then you know also
we had new members coming in so when we got to
like amaryllis and threat and attention up through
planet it was really having the you know eric
is a juggernaut of a songwriter and player and
engineer and producer you know he's produced
the last two and a half records and he's produced
this one that we're working on now so that changed
our sound but i think for the better we became
more open to well if we want to put a keyboard
on the song or we want to put a drum machine
on the song why not you know we don't it's always
going to come down to vocals bass drums guitar
But we were willing to just throw caution to
the wind and go, this is what the song needs.
I don't care if it needs a mandolin and me clapping
in the background. And that's the drum track.
That's the drum track. And I think we got better
as songwriters and better as players. I would
hope anybody who's in this industry continues
to grow as a player. I still take lessons. I
still work on my craft. There's still a lifetime's
worth of things to learn on my drums and to learn
in the studio and how to make these things happen.
Every time I get with Eric, I'm like, dude, you're
taking me to college every time. I learn a new
technique and I learn a new thing. And we learned
so much early, God rest his soul. But Doug, the
engineer on Sound of Madness, Amaryllis, and
Attention to Tension, and I think a song or two
on Threat, unfortunately passed away. And his
knowledge was scary because he's an LA guy. He
grew up in those studios. He just knew how to
engineer. And he'd be like, what do you mean
you haven't tried this mic technique where I
take this? crappy radio shack mic and i put it
against this wall and i you know blow it up with
a compressor but check out what it does to the
drums when you turn it up and you're like god
how did you think of that you know so you learn
over the years and you hone your craft and you
know in a very long i can be long -winded but
a very long story short i think we've just become
better at our personal instruments better song
crafters and a little bit less cautious, a little
bit more of, I don't give a shit. This is the
song we're going to do. This is the songs that
you're going to get from Shinedown. And we never,
you can never change Brent's voice, right? And
never leave Shinedown. It still sounds like Shinedown,
but I don't want to make leave a whisper again.
I love that time period. And I have nothing but
fond memories and I have no regrets over our
whole lexicon of music, but I don't want to make
that again. I got to make what we're feeling
right now. And that's, that's the most important
thing. You brought up something about working
with Eric and what he's brought to you. And I
talked to him about his album that's being released
this week as well. But I'd like to talk about
your writing and approach to recording drums,
because one thing that I mentioned to Eric that
has always impressed me about what you bring
to the album is you're always willing to play
to the strength of the song, no matter what that
is, be it the timing changes in unity. to where
you kind of sit back in a song like A Symptom
of Being Human from Planet Zero. How do you decide,
is it during the writing or the recording session
where you should be laying into a song and bringing
that metal background into play or sitting back
and letting kind of the song breathe and speak
for itself? It definitely becomes song dependent
and it happens in the studio when it's time to
track the drums. Because a lot of times... Within
Shinedown, I get presented a demo form and it's
going to have, you know, a finger drummed programmed
kind of placeholder that goes, OK, I see where
this is going. And then it's up to me to form
what's going to happen in the fills and things
of that nature, because I am unabashedly not
apologetic to say that I am not a songwriter.
I do not have that ability. I think in rhythms.
I don't think in melody. I just I am a proud
drummer. And that being said, you know, early
in your career as a drummer. if you are a drummer
and they're taking this, you want to play all
those cool things you learned. And it's look
at me, look at me, look at me, look at this cool
thing I did. Look at these stick twirls, all
these things. And there is a place for someone
and maybe certain bands that you're in. You know,
if you listen to like a rush mastodon, whatever
you name it, those drummers have a little bit
more freedom to go look at me, look at me. And
they play a little bit more wild stuff. That's
not what Shinedown is. And for me, probably when
it goes back to even the last question you asked
about the evolution of Shinedown and their songwriting.
I've learned humility in my music and in my playing.
And I think that's the most important thing a
drummer can learn is humility in your playing
to play the song. You are not the star. You are
the drummer. You are the support. And you should
wear that as a badge of courage and a badge of
honor. That's something to be proud of, to sit
back and go, I'm going to hold this band down
and make that song feel as good as that song
should feel. every single time so when i'm there
live and i'm locked in and everything's vibing
i can look at my guys who could be a little bit
crazier maybe get off a little bit on the guitar
or you know something falls apart i'm not gonna
f up because i'm holding it down for my band
i'm the support and when it comes to recording
that's when that really happens like what does
this song need and we'll talk about it sometimes
especially with eric and i we have such a good
working relationship at this point that, you
know, he's not afraid to go, oh, Barry's going
to get pissed because I want to change this.
It's like, no, what's your idea? What do you
hear? What are you hearing that I'm not hearing?
Or vice versa. I go to him and go, hey, man,
it'd be really cool if we did a little clap in
this area or a tambourine here. What do you think
about a shaker tambourine mix? And he'll go,
that's too much because it's going to step on
the vocals here. Oh, you're right, because you
already hear the vocals and I haven't heard them
yet. We're doing the drum track. So it's those
kind of conversations, especially when you're
starting from the ether to go. Yeah, I think
that's a good idea. But that fill, as cool as
it was, can you shorten it a bar? Why? It was
a cool fill. He's like, yeah, it was. But the
vocal is still going right there and you're stepping
all over it. Cool. Let's do a shorter fill or
a longer fill. Hey, man, we need this to build
into this chorus where everything's just going
to come in and hammer you in the face. That's
what I'm going to do. And that's my job is to
service the song. And that's I pride myself on
that. And my favorite drummers are our groove
drummers, more so than the show off drummers,
as much as I appreciate their talents. I'd much
rather listen to Charlie Watts from the stones.
God rest his soul. Just lay it down or Steve
Jordan, just laying it down. That makes you feel
something. Drums are supposed to make you feel
something and just nod your head. And that's
what I want to do. Oh, Steve Jordan, man. I saw
him this past summer with the Rolling Stones.
And as sad as I am that Charlie wasn't back there,
he holds down a groove like no other. And he
brought this swagger to the Rolling Stones that
I don't want to say that. is better because it's
not better. It's just different. And there's
something about his playing that it's distinctly
Steve Jordan. So I love that. Yeah, I agree.
And I think it brought his, he brought. Not that
he's a super young man, but he brought youth
back to the stones. You know, I think there was
an article. It was either Jordan was talking
or it was Mick Jagger. But he was like, yeah,
also we're playing the tempos that we used to
play back in the 60s. And we hadn't done that
in a while because, you know, we're all getting
older. And Steve Jordan's like, no, this is the
tempo you used to do it at. And so it's pushing
them, which is entertaining, too. It's neat to
see how those things happen, you know? Oh, 100
percent. Yeah. You said something before that
I actually want to challenge you on because you
said that you're not a writer. But I'm going
to challenge that a little bit because I have
dents in my steering wheel from the sound of
madness and adrenaline that say otherwise, because
the drums really are a piece of what makes those
songs so massive and so emotional. The opening
drums in the sound of madness are so thunderous
that when that kicks. you feel it in your bones.
And I want to applaud that contribution that
you bring to the band. Thank you. Because, you
know, the drummer's got to get some love every
now and then. And as a bass player, I look out
for my rhythm section, man. That's right. I'll
take that love and I appreciate it. I guess in
the industry side of the things, drums is not
part of songwriting. How that happened over the
years, I have no idea. But in the industry, the
business side of things, doesn't matter what
I play, it's not part of the songwriting. It's
about the melody. And so maybe that's a small
point of contention with me because I think it
takes, all sums to make the song great. You know,
if a different drummer played on second chance,
it might've been a different fill there. And
that's one of my most recognized fills. It's
simple, super simple, but it sticks out. And
that's a part in the song that really makes that
song what it is. So poignant, absolutely poignant.
Now on the flip of the heavier side of things,
when you have a song, like a symptom of being
human, the first time I heard that song, the
hair on my arm stood up, not just from. the lyric
perspective, because it's a song that hits home
for a lot of people and it's made a lot of important
conversations happen. But musically, the fact
that you just sat back and kind of did this shuffle
beat made the song a hundred times more powerful
than had you brought the whole kid into the fold.
And I'd love to know the mindset behind that
because the song is perfect in its simplicity
almost. And I don't mean to make that sound as
a negative. No, no, no. I think some of the best
songs out there are perfect in their simplicity
because it's a tendency for all of us, especially
when producing and recording to throw the kitchen
sink at it. And then sometimes you just have
too much. I think for that song, I remember vividly
being in the studio with Eric and talking about
it because the demo was quite a bit different,
even maybe a little more sparse. We just had
it wasn't wasn't an afterthought. The vocals
were there and the melody was there. But the
music, the backing music really was just very
basic and rudimentary in a demo format. And in
talking about it, it's like we need the song
to grow because tempo wise, if it didn't grow,
it could fall flat easily, even though the lyrics
are so good. It needs to just constantly grow
as the song is going on to keep the interest
of the listener. And we looked at it as I remember
he and I talking and I don't know which one of
us said it first, but we're like, we need to
treat this like an orchestra. And so I turned
on my high school and college brain when I played
in the orchestras and stuff and went, we're going
to treat this like this. So I didn't even set
up a drum kit. All those ports were recorded.
as if it were a concert setting. Upright bass
drum, concert snare drum, cymbals were done afterwards.
It was absolutely done as if I were in a orchestra.
And that's, I think, what gave the lift to the
song. You listen to certain orchestra pieces
where when the drums finally come in, it's like,
oh, oh, it just hits you. That was the whole
premise behind Symptom. I know that you did not
have any part of the lyric writing in this one.
I know that that was between Eric and Brent,
Heavier subject, mental health, anxiety. It's
something a lot of people struggle with. I personally
struggle with it. And there's such a humble connection
in these lyrics to these songs. And I'm curious
to know if these songs are as meaningful to the
band as the fans that have really found hope
and purpose from these words. Yes and no. I think
it hits differently. For the fans, it's something
they can relate to and take as their own as,
hey, they're writing this about me and it's an
outlet. For us, it's the therapy of getting those
feelings out because it's a true story about
us. You know, that's the one thing I love about
my band. The one thing I cherish about Shinedown
and always have is the lyrics are true stories.
Every last one of them. And it's not about, you
know, just making something up. So that song
is about mental health because it's about Eric's
head. And Brent looking at him and them looking
at each other. And it's about dealing with that
and realizing that all of us have our issues
and the things we go through on any day. You
know, I'm kind of the rock of the band. I'm the
one that takes care of my boys. And I'm the one
that all the problems for my band and crew come
to me. They always come through me because I
get to talk to or something. But everybody, I'm
that person that I'm the vampire. They just dump
it all on me. And I'm there to support my guys
because, yes, I have my good days and bad days.
and the human as well, but I'm a little more
solid than they are. I don't deal with the same
things they do. You know, Brent with his past
addiction issues, Eric with his depression, that's
just ungodly. And even Zach, he's a very emotional
guy. And I think all artists really truly are
led by emotion more so than most. I think we
have to be to be creative. And I think, you know,
that's why Eric and Brent are so good at lyrics.
Because I think they're so emotionally damaged.
They can just get it out there and that's their
therapy. So I think, are these songs equally
as important to us? Yes, in that it is our therapy
and we're able to get it out there. But when
people outside of us, when the fans take ownership,
we have a different love with that song because
now we get to see it affect other people and
like, holy shit, we put that together and they
get to feel that. And when I look at the audience
and I see people crying or laughing or jumping
and that emotion. It's like a drug for me in
that we created this for you and you're able
to feel something and have an escape from your
everyday life for just a moment. Best thing ever.
What was the first Shinedown song for you personally
that made you realize that the band had something
special? 45. All the way back? Yeah. Because
I was given that in a demo form for my audition
for the band. I was given that and lacerated
off the first record because I was the, I think,
seventh drummer to try out. And so we go into
a practice space here in Jacksonville, Florida,
and they give me those two songs and learn these,
learned them, played them. I go, good, cool.
You know the songs. Tomorrow we want you to go
in a studio here locally and just record a demo
with real drums on it, because at that point
it was just a demo without drums or whatever.
Great. So we're going to do 45. No problem. Go
in there with my busted up kit, old heads because
I wasn't prepared, some crack cymbals, but it
had a vibe. And I went in there and I recorded
45. And it just felt good. And it was great.
Fast forward, we end up in L .A. We finally get
the green light from Atlantic Records. We finally
found a name for ourselves. We're in L .A. recording
the first record. And we record this massive
version of 45 and put an orchestra on it, did
all these things. And it was great. Getting ready
to release the record, our A &R guy goes, man,
there's something special about the demo version
of 45. And we all agreed. And that's the one
you hear on the record. That's my audition. Wow.
That's how I got into this band was that recording
that song and that busted up kit. That's the
original demo version of 45 that changed everything.
But we all knew there was something in that song.
And that was the first time I knew this band
has something. Wow. That reminds me of. When
I read the story about Dimebag using the four
track demo for the opening riff to Cowboys from
Hell on the actual album, because they couldn't
replicate the sound that they got from that cassette
in the studio. Sometimes you just get handed
a gift and you just got to take it. Well, as
the band is building up to Shinedown 8, there
are a ton of songs from the catalog that have
become staples. So much so that you have. More
songs than you can play in any given night at
a concert, unless you did the three, four hours
for a night. I don't think Brent's voice would
last three, four hours. But there are some tracks
that I think are important to the band's legacy
personally, maybe, but Adrenaline, the opening
track from Amaryllis, or I Dare You from Us and
Them that haven't been broken out over the last
few tour cycles. How does the band make the difficult
decision over which songs get kind of shuffled
in and out when crafting that tour set list as
the catalog continues to grow? It's very difficult.
We fight like cats and dogs about it sometimes.
Zach is really good at putting a set list together.
And a lot of times he'll come up with like three
or four. And then we kind of talk about those
because Eric and I just. you guys just tell us
what you want to play because at this point i'm
tired of arguing with you and the songs i want
to hear maybe not the ones and then we really
have to look at our fans and and you can you
know it's one of the great things about the internet
now is you can look at the plays of songs you
can look at the views of videos you can go that
you know who would have thought that you know
the monsters video is one of our biggest watched
songs of all time well we have to play that song
But we want to play some of the new stuff. And,
you know, I'd love to play Adrenaline again.
That's a fun one for me to play live. Oh, it's
a badass. I'd love to play Black Cadillac. You
know, Black Cadillac was a blast. And that actually
was a single in the UK. So when we go there,
we can play that song over here. People don't
really know it. It's a deep cut. Cyanide Sweet
Tooth off of Sound of Madness. Another fun one
that I love. It's just getting harder and harder,
you know, and you can only fit so much in 90
minutes and there's curfews. So we can only go
up to the curfew. You know, I'd love to play
three more songs. All right, so I have to follow
up then. You're giving full carte blanche. The
band just says, you know what, Barry? It's on
you. Come up with a set list tonight. Would the
set list be similar to what people see on any
given night, or would you be throwing out some
personal curveballs? It would definitely not
be the norm. There would be curveballs. I can
tell you there's certain songs I wouldn't play.
I don't want to hear Simple Man again. It's not
even our song. I don't want to hear it anymore.
I know the fans love it. I'm over it. I'm over
not playing during that five minute escapade
of a Skinner song. That one's gone. So it's easier
to tell you what I guess I would get rid of for
a minute. 45, as much as my heart loves that
song, kind of overplaying it. Let me put something
else in. I would probably play. I dare you again.
I would play cyanide. I get some deep cuts in
there. One of Brent's least favorite songs that
we've ever recorded. Better version of the first
record. I actually really enjoy playing because
the drum parts on there a lot of fun. So I'd
make him sing that again. And then. You know
what I do is I do a, I would probably do a poll
on our socials and go, what do you guys really
want to hear that are the deep cuts? I know you
want to hear Second Chance. I know you want to
hear Symptom. I know you want to hear Sound of
Madness. And I get it. We should play those songs.
What are the other ones? And I'd build a set
list completely off of that. And then I'd end
on a big song. I was going to say, I told Eric
that one of the songs that I have for the last
four years wondered how it didn't make attention
attention was A New Way to Die, the song that
ended up on the Walmart exclusive download edition.
And Japan got that track on the CD, but us in
the US didn't. That song is a, pardon the pun,
an absolute monster. That would be my vote. That
would be fun because we've never played that
together as a band live ever. Really? That was
recorded, and then we never looked at it again.
I've never played that song with my band members
all in one room, ever. So that would actually
be a lot of fun. Well, on the flip side to the
deeper cuts, are there any Shinedown songs that
you guys could never skip for fear of the chaos
that might ensue? Second Chance, for sure. Symptom,
I think at this point, Monsters. Unfortunately,
Simple Man. Because we tried that one. We dropped
it once and we got a lot of backlash. Enemies,
especially live. People love that song live.
And it's a fun one to play. I don't mind playing
it. Unity. And I don't enjoy playing Unity. I
don't. Really? I'm not going to lie. That surprises
me because there's something that's going on
in the song. I don't want to say it's necessarily
the timing. Yeah, I know what you're talking
about. It kind of does that shift, which sometimes
I find. distracting for my own self when I'm
playing, because that's one of those where I
played for what the song needed, but it wasn't
exactly a natural motion for me. What I wanted
to play in my head was more like coming to that
compromise when we were creating that song in
the studio, like we needed to do this. Can you
play this? Yeah, but I wouldn't play it that
way. Yeah, but we need you to play that. Cool.
Let me play that. So when you take it to a live,
I'm always going, this doesn't feel natural to
me. It's not what I would have necessarily done.
Not that it'd be very different, but it's like
writing with your opposite hand for a second.
I wouldn't have done that, but that's what the
song needs. So I'm going to have to do that.
So that's why unity kind of gets under my skin,
but it's a crowd favorite that, and it's a great
song and it should be played and it's got a great
message. Well, are there any plans on this tour
this year to maybe shuffle around some songs,
some surprises? Cause you've done that in the
past where the band will disperse throughout
the audience and you'll do a kind of a random
pick of the night. Are there plans to do that
this time around too? We've had a lot of talks
about that. Just recently, we were in New York
together filming the videos and stuff for the
latest releases. Dance Could Dance and 365. Yes.
Will there be something? There will be. Have
we pinpointed what that's going to be yet? We
haven't. Is the show going to be bigger, better,
different than what we did last time? It has
to be. You know, we have to always change it
up. It's, you know, still going to be those songs,
but we definitely have to put on, you know, we
pride ourselves on putting on a show and we appreciate
the fans that spend the. Shit tons of money it
takes to go to shows these days because of service
fees. So we better give them the show and the
release that they deserve. And we're going to.
Well, while you were in New York, you also shot
some footage that went out on social media of
the band in front of this venue. It's off the
top of my head here. Let me think about it. Madison
Square Garden. Correct me if I'm wrong. This
is the first time Shinedown's ever played the
garden. This will be the first time I've ever
stepped in that venue. How is that possible?
I feel like that's just impossible over 25 years
that no bill ever made its way through those
hallowed doors up from New Jersey. I'm allowed
to say hallowed doors. Well, they are. I mean,
it's a bucket list. It's a bucket list place
to play, especially if you're from the States,
Red Rocks and their MSG. You know, those are
the two that everybody says they want to get
to and maybe the form out in L .A. I don't know
how because we've been on big tours before. I
know that Madison Square Garden is notoriously
hard to play because of the union rules and it
just being in the heart of the city. It's very
notoriously hard for bands to play. And, you
know, it's cost prohibitive to put on shows there.
That's why a lot of times when you see artists
play Madison Square Garden, they do two nights.
First night's to pay for Madison Square. The
second night's to pay the crew. So it is notoriously
difficult to play. Well, I guess that explains
Fish's Bakers doesn't run there then. Yeah, right.
We just said to our booking agent on this when
we were, this was probably October, November
of last year, maybe even before that, we said,
I don't care what you do, get us in Madison Square
and get us there on the weekend. We have to play
it. It's just ridiculous that we haven't. And
I am pinching myself that I get to do it. And
actually, it's funny you ask. I was sitting at
the dinner table with my wife and daughter an
hour ago because we had to eat old person's dinner.
We eat early because my daughter has swim and
my daughter has swim in the evening. So we eat
at like four o 'clock. basketball i know the
feeling man yeah you get it i'm like what do
you mean i'm eating at four o 'clock fine because
she swims from five until eight but um we were
just talking about you know i'd really like them
to be at that show but the next weekend is summer
champs for her swim and she's like dad i don't
know that i want to miss and i'm like i can't
be selfish for me just because i want you to
be there you have to live your life and she takes
someone very seriously so we'll see what happens
well I think it's safe to say this is a pretty
historic show for the band. Is there any chance
that you guys might consider, I don't know, capturing
the show for a future live Blu -ray or something
along those lines? You never know. We haven't
talked about that. I'll tell you that we did
record one on the last, the end of the Planet
Zero tour. And we still haven't released it.
I'm not sure why. I know the footage is done.
So I would love to. And I know the fans would
love something live. And I actually... Personally,
just as a fan of music, I like to watch the live
stuff. When I'm watching my favorite bands on
YouTube or whatever, or even in the early days
when they'd release a VHS or a DVD, that's the
way I wanted to see the band. Like the Peter
Gabriel secret live world tour videos. There
you go. Oh my God, this is the best show I've
ever seen in my life. So never say never. Don't
know yet. All right. Well, I want to turn the
conversation to philanthropy for a moment here.
Last year, the band released hot sauces that
were in conjunction with the Torchbearer Company,
and that included Attention Attention Mango Habanero
Sauce, Symptom Chipotle Garlic, and Devour Pineapple
Jerk, with a portion of the proceeds of these
going to Musicians on Call, which is a nonprofit
that brings live music to the bedsides of patients,
families, and caregivers in hospitals. Can you
talk about the band's mindset? about giving back
over the years and why you guys do ventures such
as this one. I think when you are lucky enough
to put yourself in a position to where you can
give back, you should. And the four of us being
from the backgrounds we come from, from being,
you know, I guess, you know, we grew up with
good parents that taught us values, you know,
and taught us to give instead of take as much
as you possibly can, you know, and. Now that
we have the ability to, why wouldn't we? I think
you should. And I think it warms your heart probably
more than anything else. It's just what you should
do if you have the opportunity. If you can drop
a nickel in a bucket for somebody that really
needs it, then just do it. And don't tell everybody
that you do. I don't go out there and say, hey,
I've done this and this and this and this for
charity. We've done a lot for different places.
We have. It's not about the attention you get
from us. It's just about doing it. I've got the
ability now. And I want to bring that up because
back in 2019, I caught the band's tour in Guilford,
New Hampshire, when it was Shine Down, Bad Flower,
Dinosaur Pile Up and Broken Hands. And on that
tour, I'll never forget this. Dinosaur Pile Up
had the band's stage banner draped over their
amplifiers because it had broken. And my wife
and I talked about that. I said, oh, my God,
this. poor band on the ride home they have this
opportunity to come from the uk share this tour
of the states they're introducing their music
to people all over the country what a shit thing
to happen to them that it broke and not even
a couple of days later i see the article that
you guys went out and got them a new backdrop
for the rest of the tour that's unheard of usually
the vibe is that It's kind of a dog eat dog world
on the rock scene, but you guys are going against
that grain and showing that it's a community.
And I know you won't applaud the band for doing
it, but I wanted to applaud the band for doing
something like that because I'm a huge fan of
Dinosaur Pile Up because of Shinedown introducing
me to them. Right. And I can tell you why we,
one of the reasons we do things like that. And
all I can do is give thanks to Three Doors Down.
when we were a young band first record had just
come out three doors down took us out and they
ended up taking us out for i think nine months
total on that uh was the beyond the sun tour
um when they were at the top of their game and
they were the biggest thing in rock at the time
and we were the dumbest band in rock at the time
we were young punk kids making all the mistakes
didn't know how to load in properly didn't know
how to do it and instead of them you know berating
us as some bands do or some bands crews do it's
typically not the band it's the other band's
crew that you know treats the opening band like
shit they went hey let me show you how you can
do that better let me show you how how to wrap
a cable properly you know all these things that
you don't learn as a baby band that you have
to learn later in life or hey you know i see
you running audio this way let me help your audio
guy because you guys are taking way too much
time getting on off the stage let's help you
out and they helped us for nine months and taught
us so much and didn't ask for a thing aside from,
hey, hope you guys had a good time. And we took
that to heart, all of us, and especially Brent
and myself, now that the lineup has changed.
But I'll never forget the grace of that band.
And I'll tell you this, too. Out of all the bands
we've toured with, I can barely count on three
fingers bands I would never want to tour with
again. The vast majority of the bands out there,
including the huge ones like Kiss and Iron Maiden,
even Van Halen, there's a reason they stuck around
for a long time. And it's because of what they
do. They might not like each other, but their
band and their crew takes very good care of the
opening bands. And that's, I think, shows why
they stand the test of time. And I want to stand
the test of time as well. And it's about helping
those around you. It is a community. We're all
working just as hard, and especially a band like
Dinosaur Pileup. I know how expensive it is to
cross the pond, especially as a baby band. What's
it going to take out of us to throw a little
bit of money together and go, hey, man, get your
name out there? You know, that's simple. That's
non -starter, non -question, really. Well, when
I bring my family to see a Shinedown show, I
know they're going to get some diversity in the
music. Sure. Just for the last few years, for
example, Papa Roach, Jelly Roll, Spirit Box,
The Pretty Reckless. And now this year, you're
touring with Bush, as well as Morgan Wade, who
was also a guest on this show in the past. Knowing
her music, similar to Jelly Roll, is like a country
slash rock. You had mentioned earlier in our
conversation that you guys kind of have those
roots in the Southern rock backgrounds. Is that
why you kind of diversify the lineup of the night,
get a little bit of that Southern rock with a
little bit of the heavier side of things? I think
we just want to make it interesting for the audience
and for ourselves. You know, we could do the
same tour and, you know, aside from always. Somehow
tune with Papa Roach because we love those guys.
You know, you want to mix it up. Yes. Papa Roach
is on the chart. Breaking Benjamin's on the chart.
You know, we could go with all those bands that
are our peers and on the same charts as us and
everything else. But why not stir it up? You
know, we were so lucky enough to get Jelly Roll
to open for us. And the next thing you know,
he's the biggest thing in the world. I'm happy
for him. That's great. I'm glad we could even
be a part of your ascension to the top. And I
hope the best for, you know, for Morgan Way,
too. And, you know, we also have Beartooth on
the spring run. Yes. I'm just a fan of the band.
That's going to be fun. I like to see something
different. I like to see a female crushing it
in this industry, especially in the alt rock
countryside, because it still is pretty hard
for a female in this industry, especially if
you're going to lean that rock side. Spirit Box
is a great example of that. Why not support our
fellow friends and females and people that are
working this business? Yeah, we want it to be
different. We don't want it to be the same thing.
We don't want it to be the greatest playlist
of active rock radio. We want it to be everywhere.
If you're a music fan, you listen to everything.
You know, you look through what I've played in
the past month. It's all over the place. It doesn't
make sense. But that's how I was feeling that
day. You know, I was listening to P -Funk the
other day just because I love P -Funk and I was
in that mood. You know, tomorrow I could be listening
to Maiden again and whatever. Who cares? I like
the way you think, man, because this show every
week, it's a different topic or a different genre.
And some people have actually reached out to
me saying, man, you're all over the place with
music. And in my brain, my response is. Is there
any other way? Like, I feel like if you love
music, it's just I want to consume all of it.
I always tell people and I tell my daughter this
a lot because she listens to music and she's
got her own music that she listens to. And I
go, I don't care what you listen to as long as
it makes you feel something and you feel good.
Obviously, I'm going to monitor it because she's
just 14. So, you know, I don't want to listen
to certain things, but. you know she's gotten
she gets into the the spotify's itunes those
things and she finds her own lane and she's more
of a pop girl than i thought she'd be because
initially when we when she was coming up we listened
to deftones together and slipknot and she enjoyed
that now she's listening to imagine dragons and
benson boone and that's her thing and i'm like
does it make you feel good yeah okay great because
that's what i did as a kid Amen. As a father
of two girls, I applaud that because my daughters
both listen to as much Taylor Swift as they do
The Interrupters. And because of me, I've taken
them to see bands like Lamb of God and Metallica
and John Fogerty and ZZ Top. I want them to go
off into the world, if nothing else, having a
musical education that comes from a little bit
of everything and let them kind of form their
own path. Absolutely. You have to, because eventually
they will, they're not going to listen to your
music, but I listened to some of my parents'
music, you know, certain things that my parents
listened to. I love Beach Boys, Allman Brothers,
Bill Collins and Genesis. Absolutely. My parents
introduced me to that. They wouldn't have introduced
me to Nine Inch Nails, you know, it's just the
way it goes. And nor would they listen to it.
They'd say it's a bunch of shit, but it's a,
and that's the fun journey of music. And I, you
know, things hit everybody differently. There's
bands out there right now that people love. Then
I'm like, why? I don't get it. But somebody does
because they're huge. That's the love of music.
Subjective. Absolutely subjective. Absolutely.
Now, when I spoke to Eric a couple of weeks back
about his solo album, I Had a Name, he explained
that Shinedown 8 would, spoiler alert, not be
a concept album. So after back -to -back concept
albums in Attention, Attention and Planet Zero,
for you as the drummer, do you find it a disappointment
or a relief not going the concept album route?
Thank God it's not a concept record. You know,
I had a great time with Attention and Planet
Zero. Attention was purposely a concept record.
Planet Zero just happened to become one because
of the time period recording it during COVID.
It just we were talking about what's going on
in the world. And shit, we wrote another, you
know, another concept record. We purposely said,
can we just get a collection of songs together
that are fun and put out a record like an old
school rock and roll record? And that's what
this this one will be. Well, the band just released
a new double A -side single, 365, along with
Dance Kid Dance, which I'll play a clip of now.
Now, Eric brought this track up briefly when
he and I spoke, but we didn't get into the story
behind the song. So can you talk about how Dance
Kid Dance came together during the writing and
recording sessions for that one? That one came
together really with those guys. I didn't hear
it until it was completely done. Vocals are there.
And even then I had to go, I'm not sure what
they're writing about initially. And for me,
I think it was kind of the tongue in cheek Dance
Kid Dance. But then if you really listen to the
lyrics. You know, the pills will make you dance.
It's a lot darker. It's very tongue in cheek
and makes you want to rock out. But if you listen
to it, you're like, oh, wait a minute. This is
a little darker than what you think. And I think
it stems from the experience that Brent had during
his addiction days and really knowing way too
much about those things and overcoming that and
really kind of not making a statement like watch
out, but more of a this is a statement. I know
what you're going through. I've seen this. maybe
you want to watch out, you know? It's definitely
a powerful message, which is similar to the song
365, which I'll play a clip of now. Now, the
band chose to drop two songs simultaneously.
Dance Kid Dance went to rock radio and 365 went
to pop radio. Can you talk about the thought
process behind that move? Because releasing simultaneous
singles to different formats is something you
don't hear a lot of in modern music. No, and
we've been fighting to do it for years. literally
probably since the amaryllis record we've been
fighting like why can't we service a song over
here and we can't and then service a song over
here and typically you get shot down by management
or the label typically the label at the time
would just be like well we don't have the funding
to push both of these up the charts and we don't
want to you know take away from this one if we're
pushing this and it becomes a political quagmire
and nightmare and you're like yeah but why not
and you can never get a really straight answer
and we were finally able to with well i say we
Nobody says no to Brent Smith. And he is a bulldog
negotiator. And he's really grown a lot in the
past eight, nine years as far as his shrewdness
in business. And he basically doesn't take no
for an answer. And you can see that in the climb
of symptom being human. We were told no a million
times. It'll never do anything at Odyssey. It'll
never make it to top 40. No, it's a great rock
song, but they don't play that on Hot AC. They
don't play rock. And he's like, well, why not?
Let's just try it. And he was right. And it climbed
the charts and it did really well. It was a marathon,
not a sprint. It took a minute, but they got
it. Riding on the coattails of that, he could
look at them all and go, hey, I proved it last
time. Let's shoot for them all right out the
gate. And that's what we're doing. And it's exciting.
It's exciting for us after, you know, a 24 year
career so far of going, not only are we still
relevant, but we're still growing. And, you know,
the debut of these two songs, at least in the
radio world, are our best debuts we've had to
date. The most added, the most this, the most
that, the most. And we're like, all right, we're
doing something right. And that's important to
us. So it was really a fight for many years.
And finally, we got our way. We screamed, begged,
pleaded, rolled over on our back through temper
tantrums and finally got our way. And I think
it's proof in the pudding, you know, and it's
also for us. It's kind of like putting our flag
in the ground and going, look, rock isn't dead.
And we're not the only rock band out there that
deserves to be on these other places. And hopefully
they start paying attention. Well, I want to.
follow up on that because when you think about
the last run of singles which would be the poppier
side of shine down in get up a symptom of being
human and 365 yeah is there ever a pressure that
the label or anybody is putting on the band to
maybe steer it more towards the pop direction
if they came to us and said that it would be
the biggest middle finger we could ever give
to them good because that's not who we are That's
not who we are. We write the song. And if it
happens to be a pop song, it's a pop song. It
happens to be a rock song. It's rock. It's a
punk song. It's a punk song. We write for ourselves
first. And I will give credit to both management
and the label that we've been with the whole
time, Atlantic Records. They've never once tried.
Never once have they said, hey, we want you to
try to write a song like this or why can't you
or any of those things. Even in the early days,
they've been supportive. maybe frustratingly
so for themselves, because it is a business,
it is a music business, but they've let us be
ourselves. But if you listen back to the albums
that we've put out there, just about every single
record, if not all the records, if I think about
it, have a little bit of everything on them.
They really do. That's just what we do. Well,
when Eric and I talked, 365 and Dance Kid Dance
were not out in the universe as of yet. Yeah.
So I did my part as a podcaster in my years in
radio, and I asked what dirt he had on Shinedown
8. And he alluded to a few songs like Searchlight,
The Killing Fields, and The Pilot. Are 365 and
Dance Kid Dance a strong representation of the
sound and style that fans can expect from Shinedown
8? No. Not at all. It's as eclectic as we always
do. There's going to be things that you're going
to be like, oh, I didn't expect that. And there's
going to be some that are like, oh, that took
my head off. You mentioned Killing Fields. I'm
like, wait till you guys get to hear that one.
It's exciting. No. Is it a reflection of where
we're at right now? Sure. But every song is its
own little animal. And I think that's kind of...
the excitement of it. Yeah. There's, I think
there's going to be some fun stuff that comes
out that people are, fans are going to really
glom onto. And there's, there's certain ones
I'm thinking of in the back, back of my head.
They're like, it's different. That one's different,
but I love it. And then there's some that, Oh
yeah, that's just a straight ahead. It hits you
over the face, shine down rock song, you know,
and that, which I think dance kid is in a lot
of ways, get ready for a ride. Just like we always
do. I'm not going to lie. Both you and Eric,
when the Killing Fields came up, you both made
this same like, ooh, you guys can't. Is there
any timeline for when fans can expect to, you
know, I know I'm being greedy amongst Shinedown
fans right now because you just released two
new songs, but when will the next taste of Shinedown
8 be released? I honestly don't know. This year?
But honestly, there's no we haven't even put
a date on it right now. We're really focused
on tour prep and building the stage show. Honestly,
you know, we spent time in New York. We filmed
the videos for the two songs. We did some social
media stuff. We did some press things. We did
photos. And then we said, oh, crap. Come the
end of April, we're on tour. We've got to get
the show together. You know, there's been concepts
and ideas, but now we've got to work on trucking,
busing, what we're putting in those trucks, renting
those things, building the kits, building the
lighting rig. What is this going to be visually?
And, you know, that takes months of time. That
takes a lot of work. So that's really where we
are right now. We're just knee deep in that.
And also because Eric is the producer of Shinedown
and pretty much the engineer along with his engineer,
Eric Rickert, we also want to give Eric the time
to work on his solo thing right now. So we got
these songs out there. Now he can focus on the
rest of his because he deserves that. And it's
so awesome. And we're so proud of him. And I'm
glad we finally twisted his crazy little mind
to put it out there. I want him to be able to
focus on that right now in the lead up to when
we're just going to be really too busy for him
to do that anymore once we really start getting
in the meat of touring. And I wanted to ask,
because the album is coming out this week, have
you heard it all the way through? And if so,
what your thoughts were? I have heard it all
the way through. I have it on this computer.
I'm looking at you right now and I've had it
here for a couple of years now. He explained
that he sat on it for a while. I love it. What
I enjoy about it is it's all him, you know, cause
he played every instrument on there and I know
he goes through and tells everybody he didn't
play a drum kit, which he didn't, but he played
all the drums on there. You know, he would sit.
bass drum up and snare and he'd play those parts.
Then he'd play the cymbals. This is his brainchild.
But I love more about it knowing him and knowing
the background of the music he grew up on and
the music that really excites him. I can point
out in every single song, oh, that's a little
bit of, oh, that's Outkast. Oh, that's theater.
That's like Broadway theater theatrical things
because his mom taught voice and he grew up kind
of with a theater mom and piano in that way.
And oh, that's the piano that would be like,
and I love it because it's just a, Absolute reflection
of him and how he grew up. It's funny, your explanation
there, I immediately thought of the song Azalea.
Yeah, absolutely. And the rest of the record,
you hear that, and if you go, oh, that's reminiscent
of so -and -so, there's probably maybe a little
bit of honesty in that. Not that he's, the record
is definitely all over the place. It's like his
brain. It is all over the place in the story
and the way it goes. It's almost schizophrenic
in a great way. You're just like, where is this
going? And it's a journey. But you do have these
little things like, oh, that reminds me of so
and so. Probably because it somehow deep in his
brain came from that because he had the freedom
to just it's all him. It's all him. Nobody else
had anything to do with this. And that's the
cool part about it. When the focus does shift
back to Shinedown, I am going to press one more
time on Shinedown 8 because, you know, it's going
to come at some point this year. Is the working
title just 8 or do you guys have something in
mind? That's literally the working title is 8.
We have no idea what we're going to name it yet.
Initially, there was talks of Dance Kid Dance
being the title of it because it kind of had
that vibe in some respects. With Planet Zero
and even with Attention to Tension, they just
quickly raised their hands. It was like, oh,
yeah, that's got to be the album title. That
just fits. This one also not being a concept
and just being a collection of songs, that one
thing hasn't raised its hand yet. And each one
of us, because Shinedown is a democracy, we're
all 25 percenters, but we're all very opinionated
25 percenters. So sometimes we'll see what happens.
And, you know, I'll give Brent the 26 because
it's definitely you have to have a leader. And
he is the leader of Shinedown proudly and should
be. He's got the vision more so than anybody.
So what you're saying is the enemies video is
true to form. That's not, that wasn't acting.
No, that's our personalities. Except there's
no way in hell Zach could kick my ass. So that
whole scene. The singles 365 and Dance Kid Dance
are available now wherever you stream music.
And I'll also have a playlist embedded on the
episode page at myweeklymixtape .com where you
can check out all the songs we've talked about
this evening, including a mix of some of my personal
favorites from the band. Barry, this has been
an absolute honor. Thank you so much for joining
me on My Weekly Mixtape. It's my pleasure. Thanks
for having me. It was a great conversation. And
to all the My Weekly Mixtape listeners, if you
want to continue your Shinedown fix, don't forget
to check out the other Shinedown -related episode
that dropped just a few days ago as Eric Bass
joined me on the program to talk about his brand
new solo album, I Had a Name, as well. as all
things shine down. And remember, you can find
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until next time, enjoy the tunes.