Hey, it's Chris Ballew from the Presidents of
the United States of America, a professional
rock band from Seattle, Washington, and you are
listening to My Leaky Mixtape? No, My Weekly
Mixtape with Brian Coburn. I mean, come on, you
know where you are. Welcome to My Weekly Mixtape,
a podcast that takes the classic mixtape approach
to building a modern playlist. I'm your host,
Brian Colburn. Tonight, I'm excited to welcome
Chris Ballew of the Presidents of the United
States of America onto the show to celebrate
the 30th anniversary of the band's classic debut
album. Chris, welcome to the program, my friend.
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
It's nice to be asked to be anywhere these days.
Well, I'm excited to have you, but I like to
always start by asking all of my first -time
guests, what does the word mixtape mean to you?
Oh, wow. I mean, it means putting a pencil in
a cassette to rewind it. It means the clickety
-clack of cassettes going into recorders. It
means when I first got my first double cassette.
stereo component i felt like i was you know had
more power than the most major of major labels
to make the greatest sequence of songs i loved
making mixtapes i had good friends who were very
good at making mixtapes there's this guy named
billy ruane who was a eccentric very eccentric
show booker and music fan in boston and his mixtapes
were like scientifically engineered to just make
your brain happy So yeah, all that comes to mind
when you say mixtape. Fantastic. Well, before
we dive into the President's self -titled album,
I'd like to take us back even further than that,
if you don't mind. As your career in music included
a stint with Beck before the President's took
off, could you talk about how that connection
came together and what the moment was that drove
you to leave Beck's camp for the President's
full time? Yeah, the presidents had already played
some shows. We really formed as a three -piece
in December of 93. That's when we first played
with Jason. So sometime early in 94, like in
January 94, I got a call from an old friend from
Boston from the busking day. You know, we used
to busk together. This girl named Mary Lou Lord
called me up and she said, I share a publisher
with this new artist named Beck. He needs to
put a band together to go on tour. He's just
a solo guy, but he made a record and he needs
a band. And she's like, I thought of you and
put your name in the hat. So, you know, let's
make this happen. And I kind of ignored it because
imagine if your phone rang and somebody said,
oh, I want you to be in the band for this, you
know, Daniel and the Blueberries. They're going
to be amazing. And you're like, I don't know
who Daniel is. So it's kind of like that. And
I also, in one hand, I had the Beck thing. And
in the other hand, I had the option to become
the bass player in a band called Flop that I
loved in Seattle. But either way, the precedents
had already started rolling. But eventually,
I met Beck. Mary Lou accompanied him on a West
Coast residency tour. And he came to Seattle.
And I met him and saw him do two shows, just
him and an acoustic guitar. Blew my mind. And
I went down to Olympia to... audition i guess
i mean i didn't know how to play slide guitar
and that's what he needed was a slide guitar
player to do the thing live and so i said i could
play slide guitar but i really did not so i uh
i went to a music store before i got on the bus
and bought this guitar wow And took it down to
Olympia and walked into Calvin Johnson's house
and walked down into the basement and into the
little recording room. And they said, play slide
on this song. And I'd never heard the song before.
And I was kind of hunting and pecking. And I
guess I was good enough or hunty and pecky enough
that he liked what I was doing. Because a couple
of days later, he called me up and said, hey,
do you want to go on tour? And it was one of
those moments like my life is beginning, you
know, like a big graduation. sense the feeling
of graduating to another level so i did go out
on tour with him i went to la i was the only
band member that didn't live in la so he very
graciously let me live with him in his house
we drove around kind of we kind of did stuff
as a duo for a little while like we did kcrw
morning becomes eclectic uh as a duo and we did
you know some little recording projects together
on his four track And once we got on the road,
it kind of became obvious. Well, it was apparent
during rehearsals and also manifested on the
road. He didn't know how to be in charge of a
band. And I think he signed with Geffen partly
because Sonic Youth was on Geffen and he was
a huge Sonic Youth fan. And he kind of wasn't
a big fan of the Loser song. He wasn't as proud
of that achievement as you might. hope so he
kind of wanted to dismantle the happy -go -lucky
slacker image that the press was trying to make
so his live show was kind of messy and noisy
and kind of anti um just anti uh and i was of
course used to putting on like a show hey everybody
come on and let's uh let's get together and have
a bunch of good good old fun so my style and
his style started to kind of create some friction
uh meanwhile this demo tape that we'd made as
the presidents was selling like hotcakes over
the bar at the comet where jason worked in seattle
as a bartender so during the second beck tour
i uh got a call from jason or i called him from
the road and he said you got to come home this
is you know this has momentum even though we're
not doing any shows so let's do shows and get
back on it So, yeah, a combination of like the
aesthetics not matching with me and Beck as far
as our performance style. And then the president's
kind of, you know, bubbling up, had me in a place
where I was like, well, I got to go back. And
when I told Beck that he was like, everybody
said you would quit because I guess to everybody
else, it was pretty clear that I had my own thing.
But the beautiful thing about the whole experience
was, you know, driving around L .A. with Beck,
talking about his transition from. bedroom four
tracker to major label signee and all the pressure
that comes with that and the opportunities that
come with that was really and then what kind
of being on tour and watching him receive all
this attention and it's like he had a fame tornado
and i got to stand next to his fame tornado and
then i got my own fame tornado uh later so it
was like i went to fame school with beck and
uh another graduation i guess Yeah, I got accepted
into fame school and then I graduated and did
my own thing. Well, I have to ask when you were
playing with Beck, because I unfortunately didn't
catch any of the shows. Were you using the bass
guitar or get bass with him or were you playing
a full six string? No, I was playing six string
and occasionally I would double up the bass player.
I'd also play bass and I also ran the sampler
with all the little like samples and bits and
bobs that needed triggering. But yeah, it was
a six string. situation. This two string behind
me is the one that I bought in Boston in 93.
And that's the one that's on the debut record.
I got it for 75 bucks and I sold 5 million records
with it. So. Wow. Now I have to ask what made
you guys decide to do that two string approach?
Wasn't a decision as much as a discovery. I was
playing, I was in Boston for quite a few years
after college in New York from like 88 to 90.
two three something like that and i had been
playing an acoustic little like three -quarter
scale acoustic guitar uh as my main thing with
a contact mic taped to it and i started breaking
strings and i didn't have money to buy new strings
so i got down to four strings and i wrote a whole
bunch of songs in a four string tuning And then
I met Mark Sandman of the band Morphine. And
I don't remember how I met him, but we ended
up becoming friends. And he had this red guitar
in his studio set up as a two string. And I picked
it up and just went clang, clang, bling. And
I went, whoa, this is where I belong. This is
it. This is what I've been on my way to with
the six and down to four and now down to two.
And it just felt like home. Just felt like every
influence I wanted to... honor by writing my
own version of a song like i you know lump for
me was always a buzzcocks song uh mach 5 was
a kiss song dune buggy was a uh steve miller
ripoff it's like but i could wear my influences
on my sleeve and filter through the two string
they felt new and fresh so and it was just like
fit my minimalist attitude which is like fewer
strings to buy fewer strings to tune you know
it's just kind of felt right so that's kind of
where we did it and then then i created a three
string version figuring if you got the two and
the three together well that's five strings you
know you could really sound like you could sound
like one amazing keith richards style you know
open g tuning human with five strings with two
instruments so and john spencer blues explosion
was a big inspiration for that too because they
had two guitars and drums and they did just fine
yeah by all means now Thematically, the president's
was a bit of a different animal versus what was
happening in music in the early to mid 90s. The
sound was a little tongue in cheek, a little
self -deprecating, almost the yang to the yin
of what alternative rock was at the time. How
did you guys hone that sound that pretty much
I always deemed as the alternative to the alternative?
yeah we were the alternative to the alternative
that's i never thought of that actually well
i have a distinct you know so my whole life i
wrote songs that were fun and bouncy and even
when the themes weren't yet animals and food
even when i was writing about ideas and girls
i there was energy and like entertainment was
the order of the day with my songwriting so it
was less like looking at my shoes and more like
come on you know um serving the crowd i always
thought about the crowd as i wrote like well
what's in this song for them to latch on to and
enjoy and so anyway it was it was just a thing
that was always ingrained in me uh having grown
up listening to sergeant pepper's lonely hearts
club band exclusively from when i was four to
ten um i was like music can be entertaining and
transformative and multifaceted and tell all
kinds of stories so anyway foundation of that
but then when the grunge thing exploded i loved
it and first of all musically i mean i had been
in boston trying to record songs that sounded
like nirvana and failing because i just didn't
have the angst necessary but then when i heard
never mind i was like oh this is great i'll just
listen to this record instead of trying to make
my own this is way better and easier so um i
had had great admiration especially for that
record i mean that record just had the amazing
combination of grit and shine that tickled my
brain to no end but i do remember the 1992 video
music awards i was living with my parents because
i had no money And I was watching the show, and
all the grungies were getting awards, and it
was all about that style. And I remember distinctly
feeling, there's a space in that world for me.
There's a place for someone to stand up and be
like, wait a minute, life's a party. Life also
can be a party like that. I wasn't down on any
of that music, but I was just like, ooh, there's
room for something else. So, you know, a lot
of people say, you know, we just did what we
did and we didn't have a plan. But I somehow
I did have the seed of a plan or a notion that
there was space there for my style. So, yeah.
So in that space, we just grew our own particular
little Petri dish of happy mold. Now that you
put it that way, let's dive into the actual album
and start with the album opener, because I love
me. a solid album opener, and Kitty is an absolute
classic. All right, so I guess my first question
is twofold here. How did this become the album's
opening track and single? And then on top of
that, this is a true story? Well, first of all,
yeah, Kitty is a true story. It was about a cat
named Chima, who was Mark Sandman's roommate's
cat. Amy had this cat named Chima. So it was
a session where it was just a hangout session
with me and Mark and a couple other people. And
we're sitting around jamming, just making stuff
up on the spot. And Shima was famous for kind
of like circulating around among the people and
kind of purring as she rubbed up against your
leg. And then you'd reach down to pet her and
she'd be like, you know, just take your face
off. So we're jamming and there's Shima at my
foot. and i just started to sing kitty at my
foot and i wanna touch it kitty at my foot and
so it existed as just that chorus for a long
time i made a little demo like a weird little
four track recording with a banjo and some stuff
but it had it had a verse space but there was
no lyrics in it so the band uh helped you know
playing live with the band i remembered oh i've
got this kitty fragment let's work on that So
we expanded it into a song. I don't really remember
how it ended up being the opening track of the
album. It just felt like I was always a fan of
the way the Buzzcocks kind of some of their songs
started as if they'd already been going for five
minutes. You're just like dropped into this like
fully full steam ahead locomotive of punk rock.
And maybe that was part of it. Like, let's just
have the song start with... You know, just go.
Yeah. Don't bore us. Get to the chorus, I guess.
But it wasn't a first. I think you were implying
that it was the first single, but it wasn't ever
considered for a single. No, no, no. I'm so sorry.
I meant that it was the album opening track and
also a single because I thought that was a single
at one point. Well, it was later and we made
a video for it and the video failed miserably.
I don't think we even ever officially at the
time we never released it. It's on YouTube now,
so you can marvel at it. boring brownness uh
no lump was the first single and then lump was
really picked by the record company not i think
as much as by us because when we first played
that song live it was kind of a dud because everybody
liked you know we had boll weevil and back porch
and dune buggy and all these a body and all these
like bouncy kind of groovy little twangers and
then we played four on the floor and the crowd
was kind of like what do we do to this song you
know like i don't know what to do here so anyway
it was interesting when the label influenced
us toward that choice as a first single and it
was a great choice and that song ended up being
like the most fun song to play ever of any song
i've ever written every time i played that song
it was like i was playing it for the first time
it was phenomenal Well, while we're talking about
lump, I've always wondered, there are two different
videos, version a and version B. It appears like
the swamp, which most people remember from the
MTV days. I call it the swamp version of the
video. And then version B features some of the.
elements of the video that people saw on MTV,
but it dispersed with live footage. Which one
came first? And did the label have any push to
say, let's try this or let's try that? Yeah,
that was all born out of the fact that so we
had Roman Coppola was our guy. He made our videos
for us in the early days. And some of them were
very successful. And some of them, like Kitty,
were total failures. Peaches and Lump, great.
Kitty and Dune Buggy. kind of dark and boring
although with the doom buggy one it was kind
of cool because we played the song live in the
video because uh we just thought we'd challenge
ourselves to do that so that was fun but yeah
roman just shot so much footage the day we we
shot everything in one day all the stuff oh maybe
it was two days i'm not sure but anyway we ended
up with so much footage that i think it was roman's
idea to put together two versions because you
know we just couldn't fit it all into a two minute
and 11 second song And so we were all for it.
I don't think the B version really, I don't know
if the A and B got play on MTV. The Swamp one,
the Starts Out in the Swamp, that one definitely
got the airtime. That's the one I remember the
most. Yeah, I think the other one was just sort
of to satisfy the fact that we had all this footage
and maybe confuse people a little bit. So they
would be like, hey, wait, have you seen that
one? That's not the one. That's the other one.
So, yeah, but I like that there's two. And I
love things about the one with the live footage.
I had a camera clamped to my instrument, and
when I put it up and pointed it at the crowd,
that was so serendipitous. Right down the neck,
the crowd going crazy. Great shot. Yeah, it was
really cool. It was my idea. I'm a little bit
of a film buff, so that was my camera operator
moment. There you go. Well, I've only been able
to ask this question twice. In all of my years
podcasting, you're going to be number three.
And the other two people I got to ask this question
to were Bill Gibson of Huey Lewis in the News
and Guy Fletcher of Dire Straits. And that question
is, can you talk about the feeling you had when
you were approached by Weird Al to parody one
of your songs? And how would you describe the
Gump experience from the president's side of
the story? Wow. That's a, it's a big story. It's
like, it's a big story in, in my life. I don't
know if it's a, you know, a big story objectively,
but so Al as a habit reaches out to the artist
ahead of probably ahead of even starting to,
you know, finalize his parodies to get permission.
from the artist now he doesn't have to do that
technically when you do a parody you don't need
permission to change the words you just have
to treat it as a parody when you go to pay royalties
and all that stuff but he does do that and we
were thumbs right through the roof like yes please
uh so he did it and I'll skip ahead a bit. Years
later, I was on a podcast maybe four or three
years ago or something with Dave Perner from
Soul Asylum, Mike Miltz from REM, and me. And
we were all talking about our experiences with
Al. And the question came to me, like, where
were you when you first saw the video? And I
thought, hotel room? Backstage? I couldn't picture
it. I was like, you know what, guys? I don't
know. I have no idea. About a month later, I
was talking to Al on the phone and I said that
I couldn't remember. And he's like, you don't
remember? And I said, no. And he said, we watched
that video together on a tour bus. I think it
was the president's tour bus. Just you and me,
just Al and me on a bus. And he screamed the
video for me. And it was the only time in his
whole career. that he'd ever debuted the video
in the room with the artist. Wow. And he was
super nervous. And what's shocking is if I don't
remember that, what else don't I remember? Did
I have pancakes with Dave Grohl on the top of
the Space Needle and I just don't know? So, yeah,
it was really great. I mean, when I first saw
it and then subsequently on MTV here and there,
just, you know, seeing Al playing me. I mean,
I remember watching MTV in my friend's basement
when it came on. We were like sitting there.
It's just static. And then Video Kill the Radio
Star comes on, which we ended up making sort
of later on. But we're going to get to that.
Don't worry. Yeah. So to have sort of. you know
on on our own to have gotten into the world of
mtv was crazy enough but then to be parodied
by al was just like mind -boggling you know like
pinch pinch pinch is this a dream and then al
we i ended up being really good friends and we've
uh stayed in touch and every time i go to la
just to kind of chill out uh we get together
he and his wife suzanne and i get together and
and my wife kate and we just have a good old
time so yeah and and you know we've collaborated
with him he produced a video for us for this
song called mixed up son of a from our later
album and we've hijacked each other's sets live
shows and hopped on stage with each other countless
times And one time in L .A. was so great, we
did a cover of More Than a Feeling by Boston.
So, yeah, it's a delightful experience all around.
It's very impressed with his he's so technically
good at what he does. And he's a great songwriter
and a really just amazingly kind and present
human. Like you have a conversation with him
and he's just like, you're the only person in
the whole world. And it's really nice. Really
nice. Although one time I complimented him on
that fact. And he said, actually, it's because
my hearing loss from playing is so profound.
I have to focus on your face. Wow. I did not
know that. Yeah, yeah. Well, the next song I
want to talk about actually has a little bit
of a change that happens over the original Pop
Llama Records version of the album versus the
Columbia Records version, which is Feather Pluckin'.
Talking in cold to clams in the clouds. They
send a secret message and send it by worm. So
vibrating spiders will receive the word. Well,
that's totally feather plucking. Now, if you
were one of the lucky few original people to
purchase the Pop Llama edition of the album,
you got treated to the band's rendition of the
Beatles' I've Got a Feeling interspersed into
the track. But the version that most people purchased,
which was the Columbia re -release, doesn't.
Yeah. Is there a lawsuit story behind this one?
Well, there's the proactive prevention of a lawsuit.
Like two things happened on the Columbia debut.
One is that Beatles tribute, which we used to
do live all the time. And eventually later live,
we would put Baby, You're a Rich Man in there,
too. So we had our it was our little spot to
pay homage to the Beatles. And then we beeped
the fucks in Kitty. ourselves on the pablama
version i remember it took forever for us to
at that time in the 90s we're trying to generate
a beat but when we signed with columbia they're
like get rid of the beep and you can't have that
beatles thing in there because it's too complicated
with royalties and it's couched in your song
so it's going to get messy so we were mastering
the record in the basement studio space at capital
records in la you know the big round building
the iconic And the guy doing the mastering cut
some of the lacquers for the American releases
of the Beatles albums, Wally Truggett. And we
were his last gig doing a mastering job before
he retired. Wow. In this space. And he took us
into the other room and showed us the lathe that
made the masters for the Beatles. You know, I
touched it. And so it was incredible. And so
ironically, one of his last moves with the razor
blade, because this is a quarter inch master.
We don't have digital files or anything. So his
last move with the razor blade was to cut the
Beatles out of our song. It's just so poetic,
right? The guy that mastered some of those records
ended up cutting that band out of our tune. Absolutely
poetic. It was just cosmic. He told us a really
amazing side story, too. Leading up to writing
the songs I wrote, and during that time when
I was writing the songs I wrote for the debut
album for the Presidents, I woke up every morning
and put on More Than a Feeling by Boston. Because
to me, it was like this candy -coated, beautiful
rock sweep. thing you know like i just wanted
to eat rock candy first thing this morning i
kind of remind myself like what is important
with music harmony entertainment you know like
melody and so the lyrics of course uh woke up
this morning and the sun was gone put on some
music to start my day lost myself in a familiar
song i i was doing what the song was saying so
i noticed on wally's wall a gold record or a
platinum record for that record And he's like,
oh, yeah, that thing was a bitch. Because what
happened was they mixed it, got everything ready,
Wally mastered it, and then it went out to radio.
And the radio compressors crushed the vocal down
for some reason too far. And it was bad enough
that they recalled 500 ,000 records and trashed
them and remixed and remastered the song so that
it would be the right dynamic. Wow. I never knew
that. Yeah. So he had a big story to tell about
that song, which was the song I used to like
my compass rose for what music should be. Oh,
wow. That's incredible. The whole experience
was cosmic and trippy and just, you know, I have
a, I have a permanent bruise from pinching myself.
My career. Well, I'm going to put my nerd hat
on for this next question, if you don't mind.
That's OK. I'm doing it all day. All right. Along
with the feather plucking that we talked about
in Spain, the original vinyl pressing of the
album was the band with Bill Clinton on the cover.
But that got recalled and replaced with the face
paintings that you see on the inside of the Columbia
CD version. Was that another instance of Columbia
Records going, you guys, I don't know if you
could get permission. Was there an issue with
the Bill Clinton photo? No, I think we just had
a bunch of different versions of the vinyl. The
vinyl wasn't a big deal back then. So it was
kind of a sloppy like, you know, they're doing
this in Spain. They're doing this in Italy. They're
doing this in France. They're misspelling back
porch as black porch. So, yeah, no, I don't think
that wasn't a legal thing. It was just sort of
a limited run by a small label in Spain called
Munster. Yes. Yeah. And I think that picture
on the front was in color, which was so our manager,
Stacy, set up this situation where we were opening
up for Bill Clinton and then we would meet him
and get a photo op afterwards. And the idea was
to get that photo op because it would make an
amazing promo picture for the band. Right. So
when it came to. take the picture with clinton
stacy got in the shot in between dave and bill
clinton and we're like stacy what are you doing
this you know we can't this is before photoshop
was ubiquitous so we did have it for her photoshopped
out now the original shot with her in it we all
look amazing i mean the light is incredible we
look like we all just came off the beach we look
healthy and wonderful Whoever did the Photoshop
edit did not understand. It just fucked with
the colors. We all look like we had the flu.
Dick's hair is kind of greenish. Everybody's
got red noses. Later, when we used it as a poster,
we made it black and white, and then you couldn't
tell how terrible the photo had been butchered
by the Photoshop person. Forever after that,
we're like, Stacy, what the hell were you thinking?
Well, in 1996, on President's Day, which is very
fitting, MTV aired a concert from your performance
in front of Mount Rushmore. I was sitting in
my dorm room in college. I recorded it on VHS
tape and wore that tape out. Given that MTV was
still at its prime at that moment as a music
influencer. Did that airing propel the album's
popularity more than it already had been growing
at the time? Boy, I don't know. You know, at
the time, anytime you were on TV, there was a
bump. You know, like when you did The Tonight
Show, bump. When you did The Letterman, bump.
So I assume there was a, you know, as similar
kind of sales surge after that. special i mean
that was unique you know unlike say on a late
night show where you play one song you've got
three minutes of airtime that was 30 minutes
i think or something close to it of airtime with
all kennedy yammering and doing her thing i think
it was a total of 30 minutes yeah so i assume
it was just another bump that was quite an amazing
thing because we were stuck we said yes to that
and you know the record label totally engineered
that whole thing which is great And we were on
our way to do it. And we got to San Francisco
and the airport shut down because of fog. And
we're literally like on in, you know, an hour
and a half. We got to get to North Dakota and
from San Francisco. And so we rented a jet, like
a tiny plane that apparently could navigate the
fog. And, you know, being aware of the whole
Buddy Holly thing. Yeah. Get to the next. got
to get to the next gig you just got to get in
this little plane and then everything and i was
freaked out i gotta say man i was like we're
gonna die this is how this is how stories go
you know this is how you end up smashed into
the side of a mountain but we made it and everything
worked out fine and you know we got to get in
our own little tiny jet that was our one time
where we were like you know custom jet people
and that gig was memorable too because it was
cold out And there were hot air vents in the
stage blowing up at us, but only in the spots
where our microphone stands were. So if we went
away from the mic to kind of rock out with Jason
or whatever, our guitars would go out of tune.
We actually re -performed four songs because
of tuning issues. Really? Yeah, it was kind of
a long day. I mean, at least for the audience,
it was like bonus concert time, so I couldn't
be that bad. oh no it was great we had a great
time you know and actually we were i'm sure if
yeah we were uh happy to play the songs again
because we were just so into the scene and it
was fantastic so yeah but it was just one of
those side notes like we've done a few shows
over the years where we're playing in like freezing
temperatures and it's it's it wreaks havoc on
your uh tuning it's real tough Well, still staying
on that special, I'm going to pivot into cover
songs because on that special, you opened with
a cover song, which also made the self -titled
album, your cover of MC5's Kick Out the Jams.
And then later in the special, you guys performed
the band's cover of Video Killed the Radio Star.
Thinking about cover songs for this band, was
there a thought process that went into, hey,
let's do MC5 here, let's do the Buggles here?
The covers definitely pay homage to the original,
but they're uniquely President songs. Yeah, that's
the two -string thing, two - and three -string
thing, and tiny drum set at work. It sounds like
us, because that's our sound, but we're... paying
homage to our influences i mean the kick out
the jams thing i kind of discovered this in like
90 90 91 i discovered the mc5 and the stooges
at the same time and they just you know we used
to cover tvi by the stooges at the drop of a
hat it was one of those things we just had in
our back pocket if things were going really well
and the room is crackling one of us would launch
into tvi and just like here we go and unplanned
so kick out the jams was a similar sensation
it just felt so fun to play there's a little
story with that we changed the words we weird
alified that song actually we uh changed all
the verse lyrics kept the chorus lyrics so it
wasn't technically a parody because we kept the
tagline was the same title was the same all that
when we sent it off to the mc5 camp to get approved
as a you know it's a cover but it's changed so
that we had to get their approval they said no
really yeah patty smith was in charge of fred
sonic smith's uh legacy the guitar player who'd
passed away And Wayne Kramer, they both said,
you can't change it. Wayne, you know, I don't
know exactly what their logic was, but they just
said no. So our lawyer was partners with Patti
Smith's lawyer, David Kotico and Rosemary Carroll.
So David worked on Rosemary, who worked on Patti,
I guess. And then Wayne fell in line and eventually
they said yes. like a year later maybe a couple
years later i kind of was realizing hey we never
sent anyone from the mc5 like a platinum award
you know with the re the platinum record so i
called the major label and said hey send wayne
kramer a platinum album they did and then about
a month later wayne called me at home i don't
know how he got my number but pick up the phone
it's wayne kramer and he's like i am so grateful
for this award thank you so much nobody's ever
done anything like that for me and i'm so touched
and blah blah blah and then he's like let me
tell you why i said no i was like he said um
i said no because i felt like if i allowed the
words to be changed to our signature song it
would be like tampering with history it would
be disrespectful to the legacy of the band and
all this stuff and then through time i guess
and through some convincing from rosemary carroll
and patty smith he said yes and uh he felt like
when he said yes his whole relationship to their
catalog and their legacy changed he felt way
less attached to it and like sort of uh bound
by it and he loosened up and was like you know
what if i say no to the presidents it's like
i'm the man and i'm crushing creative progress,
right? So he had this epiphany and we really
bonded over that and became friends and everything.
And then smash cut to like 2015, I think it was,
MC5 comes to Seattle. Most of the original members,
you know, except the ones that have died. And
I did kick out the jams with them live. Amazing.
I'm in the MC5 for a song, you know. And then
we're backstage afterwards, like laughing and
high fiving and drinking beers and stuff. And
I tell the whole story about how Wayne said no.
And then he said yes. And it changed his attitude.
And then there's a beat of silence. And then
Wayne pipes up and he says, actually, I needed
a new garage. And I heard you guys were going
to be huge. And so the whole room like loses
it like. And so apparently that's all it was,
was he needed some cash. Well, thank God for
that then. I know. The other one I mentioned
was Video Killed the Radio Star. You talked earlier
in our conversation about sitting and watching
MTV for the first time and seeing that. I'm guessing
that had part to do with it, but I'm wondering
how it became a part of the Wedding Singer soundtrack,
why they didn't go with the Buggles and why they
chose your version. I think Adam Sandler's a
fan. During that time when that was happening,
he would call my house and I never talked to
him, but he left a couple messages that were
hilarious. He was talking about how I had a newborn
son at the time and he was giving me instructions
on how to go water skiing with a newborn. I don't
know why. But anyway, I didn't save those messages,
unfortunately. But I got the sense that he was
just into, he was a fan. And I'm not sure exactly
how that whole thing came about. yeah that no
that song when it even you know when it came
on the radio when i'd be driving around in seattle
in the early 80s i would have to pull over the
car because it was so again like more than a
feeling video killed the radio star these are
like just song sugar you know you just they're
so uh satisfying they just like quench your thirst
for harmony and melody and everything and atmosphere
you know So, yeah, it was fun. The reason we
covered it is like, well, that's a great song,
but maybe it would be even greater or a different
kind of great if it were hard charging and not
as many frilly lines, but let's just nail it
to the floor and see what happens. In that way,
we kind of felt like we made it our own. Certainly
did. And then, yeah, we made a video. for this
it was a single from the soundtrack album for
that movie so we made a video and i had already
we had already broken up when we shot the video
so in the video i called up a sign that says
i quit and it's kind of poetic it's like video
killed the radio star we're disintegrating as
a band and getting killed metaphorically i guess
so it all kind of dovetailed together quite nicely
Well, we already talked about Lump, so I think
it's only fitting that we throw in some conversation
about peaches as well. Right. Now, from what
I've read over the years, and if I'm wrong, please
correct me here, this song stems from everything
from LSD to John Prine. Well, both, actually.
And Mary Lou, the girl that introduced me to
Beck. She's involved. Okay. So, where does it
begin? It begins with me taking acid. And then
walking. I was living with Mark Sandman. And
then I went out of the house and I walked to
where Mary Lou's house was in the same kind of
neighborhood. Cause I had, I had developed feelings
for Mary Lou and I was going to tell her that
I had a crush on her and, you know, see what
would happen. And of course taking LSD is the
first step in any young, in any young romantic
quest for connection. You want to start with
drugs? Kids don't try this at home. So I get
to her house and she's not home. And her house
was this like canary yellow Victorian house in
this very, different kind of neighborhood like
you know machine shops and garages and then here's
this like tweety bird house even not on lsd it
was remarkable and a peach tree in the yard by
the white picket fence so i go in i knock on
the door she's not home so i go sit under her
peach tree and i'm just like that pushing peaches
and literally doing what the song says she never
did come home so you know it's sort of uh never
i never made that connection um We were in a
band later called Strumpet and hung out and stuff
like that. And we're still good friends. In fact,
I just had a big phone catch up with her about
a couple of weeks ago, which was great. And then
I showed it to the band and Dave Dieterer came
up with that whole end part. Millions of peaches,
peaches for me. That was all Dave. So it's very
much me and then Dave. And I love that about
the song. I love that it's like a real collaboration
with... Dave, which a lot of the songs we did
were just kind of like I wrote the whole song.
They interpret it. But this was like a co -write,
which was really cool. So, yeah, that's kind
of the origin story of Peaches. Well, we've talked
about the hits from the album, the covers, some
classic cuts. But I would wonder, as one of the
members of the band, what, in your opinion, are
some of the most underrated songs on the self
-titled album? Maybe songs that you wished would
have been a single. I think Bo Weevil. That song
just slayed live. Super fun to play. Another
one where I really, every time we played it,
I was excited to play it, actually. I think we
should have made a video for that instead of
Dune Buggy and Kitty. We should have made like
a throwbacks, you know, 70s disco themed extravaganza
video. That would have been a smart move. Really
fun and bright and explosive. So, yeah, that's
my pick. Bull Weevil. Well, earlier we talked
about your stint with Beck. But I'm a huge 90s
hip -hop fan, so I can't talk to you and not
bring up Subset, which is your collaboration
with Sir Mix -a -Lot. You guys had songs like
Addicted to Fame, which is on YouTube, Beach
Rats, and We Can't Stop Us. Considering where
Nu Metal was at the time of Subset, why was there
never an album for this? Yeah, that's a good
question. In fact, about two years ago, we all
got together and revisited that question and
thought we would put it out, believe it or not,
as an NFT. There was a moment where we were taking
meetings with NFT people, but everyone we met
with felt like they were also in charge of the
Fyre Festival. Uh -oh. Yeah. We'd get on a Zoom
call with them and they'd be somewhere like,
oh, where are you? Oh, we're in Barcelona. And
then the next time, where are you? Oh, we're
in, you know, Pongo Pongo. They were always somewhere
exotic with their shirt unbuttoned on most of
the way. kind of just gave us the creeps so we
uh backed off that idea but you know every five
or six years i run into mix and he's like we
gotta put out the record i'm like go ahead and
do it you know if he would take charge of it
that'd be great so that project was really fun
mix was contacted by some record label that wanted
to do a compilation album of songs by pacific
northwest artists covered by unlikely pairings
of Pacific Northwest artists. So it'd be like
Queensryche and Hart or Sir Mix -a -Lot and the
Presidents, you know. And it would be us doing
a Hendrix tune. But we got together to talk about
that and had dinner out at a restaurant. And
immediately we got along so well and we had so
many interesting ideas just among ourselves that
we're like, forget the cover. Let's just make
some new music. And we did. We made Beach Rats
and Addicted to the Fame and just was like, well,
that was great. Let's do more and more and more.
So we just kept going and going. And we do have
a record pretty much done, but we just can't
agree on how to put it out. I think we should
just put it out for free, put it up on a streamer
or all the streamers and no money involved. Some
of it doesn't age exactly right. Some of the
lyrics the mix was spouting were kind of not.
would not be i don't know it's a different time
you know it's like there's red flags in there
that we kind of are like i don't think we want
to charge money for this but mix i think he wants
to do it in a way that would generate some cash
so we're just we just we had so many expectations
for that collaboration and then we had kind of
a weird disastrous show here at the show box
where dave's amp broke and and we didn't quite
have the confidence as a unit to kind of fill
a gap where we have technical difficulties and
we kind of floundered and people kind of were
like i don't know but we did a west coast tour
that was amazing like all the other shows we
did were just like off the hook crazy funny mix
being you know letting him be the front man was
really fun for me you know just backing up and
doing bass and i played keyboards and and saying
some of the stuff but anyway it was a fun experience
and it was really great to get to know mix he
turned me on to recording in pro tools and digital
formats and i would not be as kind of uh in touch
with my true creative self if it weren't for
me hanging out with him for all those years watching
him work and learning how to do all that stuff
so yeah he's a big deal as a friend and as a
collaborator he's a great guy too really nice
dude i'm just gonna throw out there there has
never been a 25th anniversary edition of an album
that's never been released you guys could be
the first That's great. I love it. I love it.
That's a really good idea. That, that might be
a good pitch for those guys to kind of rekindle
that project. Hey, if that happens, if you could
just throw a shout out to Brian Colburn at my
weekly mixtape and the liner notes, that'll be
awesome. Maybe, maybe I'll get to come out to
a show. I'll introduce these on stage. Maybe
I'll, I'll jam out with you too. What the hell?
Why not? I'll have some fun. You'd be the fifth
beetle or whatever. There you go. I'll be the
Yoko Ono. The sub subset. Yes. Yes. Well, We've
been talking about the self -titled album throughout
this discussion, but the presidents, to me, are
a lot more than just the self -titled album.
Just off the top of my head, you've got Mach
5 from 2. You've got Slow Slow Fly from Kudos
to You. You had mentioned Mixed Up Son of a Bitch
from These Are All Good Times People. What are
some of your personal favorite songs from across
the president's discography that are not on the
self -titled release? Wow. That's a good one.
Some Postman. I really loved playing that song
live. That was super fun. And that came about
so beautifully. A friend of mine, Ramona in New
York sent me a CD of some songs I think she was
working on and it never arrived. And she called
me like, did you get the CD? And I said, no,
I didn't ever, never got it. And she's like,
ah, darn it. And I said, well, some Postman is
grooving to it and went, whoa, song title. And
she's a songwriter too. So I was like, Ramona.
Call me back in 20 minutes and let's both write
songs called Some Postman and we'll put out a
single. So I hang up the phone. I wrote it, recorded
a demo of it. She calls back. I'm like, here,
listen to it. And she listens to it. And then
I play yours. And she's like, I couldn't do it.
I didn't write one. And she still hasn't written
one. And I'm still giving her a hard time. She
came in like. i don't know 2014 or something
she came to a show in new york and i from the
stage i pointed her out to everybody like there's
ramona and she still owes me that song so anyway
that song for some reason that pops right off
the top of my head um yeah the song mixed up
son of a that al recorded that that was really
um fun to hear that one come to fruition i started
that song way back in like 80 1989. I had a four
-track, and at the time, four -tracks were kind
of expensive, and not all songwriters had access
to it. So I made a little poster like, are you
a singer -songwriter that wants to do a demo?
I tried to start a tiny little studio with one
mic and my four -track. I only ever got one phone
call from the ad, and it was this woman who was
just completely deluded. had delusions of grandeur
and and wasn't making any sense and i was like
whoa whoa whoa i don't think i really want to
do this as a job and you are a mixed up son of
a bitch i wrote this song about her the only
respondent to my ad to go to my apartment and
record songs so um i don't know those two kind
of pop out uh oh crown victoria that one was
really yeah That had John Roderick from the Long
Winters on backup vocals. And that was fun to
believe it or not. We played that live several
times and it was really fun to just kind of get
into that slow groove of that song. So those
those three kind of pop out for some weird reason.
Well, the band's last two releases both came
out in 2014. That's kudos to you and the live
album. Thanks for the feedback. But then sadly,
in 2015, the president's ended their run. Correct.
With the 30th anniversary of the self -titled
album being this year, is there any chance of
that maybe being a catalyst for a reunion of
sorts or maybe some deluxe edition of the album,
maybe bringing the presidents back in 2025? Yeah,
we're doing some stuff around the anniversary.
We took over Lithium XM Radio a month ago and
DJed. We found the guy, Craig, who used to do
our live sound. Multitrack recorded our last
show in January of 98. The last show of the first
chapter. Yeah. And it sounded great. And we had
our friend Johnny Sangster mix it. And so we
have this fully mixed live show that is amazing.
And we're not sure what we're going to do with
it yet. during this year where it's the 30th
anniversary we're either going to release it
in like song chunks as lyric videos maybe online
or just do the whole thing or do just the debut
album tracks as a little mini concert you know
put them in order and all that nice but it came
out great so we have that intellectual property
that we're just kind of sitting on right at the
moment we're kind of we we're overdue for a a
meeting to figure out what we're doing with that
and then now playing live no we're not going
to do that because i look back and i where i
listen to that show and i look back at videos
and stuff even of how we performed in the 2010
to 15 range but you really if you look back into
the 90s so much jumping so much energy so much
like focus and i just can't do it i'm 60 years
old and my feet are kind of hurting me and elbows
i've got like some sort of weird arthritis in
my elbows i can only play guitar for like five
minutes before my elbows start to explode so
yeah i'm just you know and and you know i watched
an interview with rem recently too and they're
the same way they're like the way i see it is
like It's an arc and it was a beautiful arc,
but it has arced. And as a creative person, letting
that arc finish and be done and then starting
new ones, you have room to start new ones. And,
you know, I've done Casper baby pants for, you
know, zero to five year olds and their parents,
kids. And then I'm doing this solo record arc
now. I'm on I'm finishing up album number nine
on that. So part of evolving as a creative person
is making space for new. stuff to come in and
part of that is not saying yes to reuniting the
band the nice thing is the three of like rem
we're all on the same page all three of us are
like although dave you know dave quit the band
in 2004 and uh we went on for another 11 years
and so i think dave's got a little itch like
i think if we if jason and i had it in us in
us he might be the first to say yes But Jason,
Jason and I are just two. We played a lot more
shows than Dave. And I played on top of all those
president shows. I played 1300 Casper baby pants
shows in 10 years. Wow. Yeah. So I just wore
out my parts. Well, it's perfect timing because
I was going to bring up Casper baby pants, your
children's music project, as well as the music
you've released as a solo artist, which you've
described as I quote. Fuzzy, psychedelic, groovy,
nappy, suited, distorted jam albums. There you
go. I like it. Although I've sort of consolidated
down to a genre that I call pop cosmic. There
you go. Because it's pop music, but then it's
got cosmic elements to it. So it's pop cosmic.
So there's something about these albums that
I find very refreshing, very exciting. And also,
once again, I'm going to use the term the alternative
to the alternative because all of these albums
are available on every streaming site. However,
on your webpage, chrisbaloo .org, all of the
albums are available to download for free. Totally.
To me, that is a unique approach. to promoting
and marketing an album. And I'd love to hear
the mindset behind that approach. Well, it's
an experiment that I've always, sometimes out
of necessity, like in the early days out of necessity,
I didn't have any infrastructure. Like when I
was making four track cassettes and playing in
the subway and selling my tapes and busking and
all that. That felt like a perfect circle of
like, write a song, record the song, sell the
song, perform the song, you know, like it's and
the scale was all that was kind of could be perceived
as, you know, a bummer. I didn't see it as a
bummer. I saw it as like a full circle that was,
you know, attainable and reachable, a goal that's
reachable. So I guess that kind of trickled into
this idea where. when the presidents got signed
i remember sitting down with the label and saying
we'd like to promote this record without really
appearing to promote it at all because i always
kind of feel like i want honest like any sort
of um success that my songs achieve i want them
to achieve it without a promotional machine pushing
them because then i will trust the level of a
claim they achieve right like if we like with
casper i didn't do any promotion at all except
write the songs record the songs play shows sell
the cds and let families ingest it and then let
the families tell other families about it so
that's just kind of stuck as my sort of preferred
way to gauge the music's honest place in the
landscape right like So if I have my latest solo
record has something, the songs all have something
like 4 ,000 listens. And to me, that's like amazing.
Like 4 ,000 people have listened to this song.
It's just incredibly fulfilling and exciting.
And it's not about money. I'm fortunately in
a position where the presidents and Casper kind
of pay the bills. And now I can just be a hobbyist
who. makes music because i want to hear it and
then i put it out with no expectations and then
any you know any listener count is a victory
if you uh i guess it's like that what is it uh
under promise and over deliver kind of attitude
you know like so i just feel really comfortable
with that and i don't think i'm not in a position
where i need to charge money for it so i'm not
gonna tax the listener just because that's the
normal thing to do i just think Making it free
takes economics out of my creative process, too.
I don't think about that. I think more about
the person listening to the album. I'm forever
trying to remake Sgt. Pepper's. I'm trying to
make that headphone journey through all sorts
of styles and textures and stuff that I experienced
as a kid when I listened to that record. So I
don't want money to get in the way of people
having a good time with the music. Well, I have
had a good time with the last eight solo albums.
I'm looking forward to nine and beyond. Great.
The Presidents of the United States of America
turns 30 this year, and you can hear it anywhere
and everywhere you listen to music. Chris's solo
music can be found at chrisbaloo .org, as well
as all the streaming sites. Chris, this has been
an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining
me on My Weekly Mixtape. Thanks for having me,
man. I really appreciate it. And it's great to
talk and tell all these stories. Yeah. Sometimes
I tell all these stories. I'm like, really? Did
that really all happen to me? So it's fun to
revisit them. So thanks for having me. And to
those listening, there is a full Presidents of
the United States of America playlist embedded
on the episode page over at myweeklymixtape .com.
And remember, you can find My Weekly Mixtape
on almost all the social media haunts at My Weekly
Mixtape. You can also head to myweeklymixtape
.com to check out the full catalog of My Weekly
Mixtape episodes. And finally, if you like what
you're hearing on the show, you can help me out
by either telling a friend, leaving the show
a five -star review wherever you're tuning in,
or becoming a Patreon mixtaper at patreon .com
forward slash myweeklymixtape. There you can
find ad -free episodes of the show, gain early
access to upcoming episodes, chime in on future
topics, become a guest curator, and so much more.
That's all for this week. Thanks again for listening.
And until next time, enjoy the tunes.