WEBVTT 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.759 What is going on, friends? Welcome to My Weekly 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.579 Mixtape, the show that takes the classic mixtape 00:00:16.579 --> 00:00:20.100 approach to building a modern playlist. I'm your 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:22.920 host, Brian Colburn. I hope each and every one 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:25.780 of you had a fantastic Thanksgiving weekend. 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.780 And if you're listening outside of the United 00:00:27.780 --> 00:00:30.660 States, I hope each and every one of you had 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:34.560 a fantastic weekend. But now that Thanksgiving 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.520 is out of the way, Black Friday is out of the 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:41.350 way, today is December 1st. Cyber Monday, you 00:00:41.350 --> 00:00:44.630 are all probably going crazy on all of the sites, 00:00:44.829 --> 00:00:48.689 trying to swap up all the deals you can, and 00:00:48.689 --> 00:00:52.210 I'm here to provide the perfect soundtrack for 00:00:52.210 --> 00:00:55.850 doing so. I have been blessed over the years 00:00:55.850 --> 00:00:58.189 here at My Weekly Mixtape to talk to some of 00:00:58.189 --> 00:01:02.070 my favorite artists and songwriters, and one 00:01:02.070 --> 00:01:05.890 of them was on my list since the first ever podcast 00:01:05.890 --> 00:01:08.969 that I recorded for TuneStyles back in 2017. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.480 And that person is none other than Paul Williams. 00:01:13.819 --> 00:01:17.840 Last year, I had the honor and privilege to sit 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:21.299 down with Paul the week before Christmas, which 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:24.319 for me was truly a Christmas present in and of 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:28.219 itself, because I got to talk all things Muppets 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:31.599 with somebody that couldn't be any closer to 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:35.519 the Muppets musical universe than Mr. Williams. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.299 of my favorite Muppety things, including one, 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:47.739 my favorite holiday special of all time, Emmett 00:01:47.739 --> 00:01:51.780 Otter's Jug Band Christmas, and two, my favorite 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:54.959 song of all time, The Rainbow Connection, written 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:58.920 by none other than, you guessed it, Paul Williams, 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:04.019 as sung by Jim Henson or Kermit the Frog, depending 00:02:04.019 --> 00:02:07.280 on who you ask. Now, Paul has been intertwined 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.550 in the Muppet universe. since the days of The 00:02:10.550 --> 00:02:13.610 Muppet Show, and this is a conversation that 00:02:13.610 --> 00:02:18.469 I feel last year did not get its just due. There 00:02:18.469 --> 00:02:21.830 was only one week prior to Christmas that this 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:24.969 was out in the universe, and that's the week 00:02:24.969 --> 00:02:28.189 leading up to Christmas, the week where everybody's 00:02:28.189 --> 00:02:32.110 going crazy, buying last -minute gifts, finalizing 00:02:32.110 --> 00:02:35.789 plans, running all over the place, but now we 00:02:35.789 --> 00:02:38.569 are at the beginning. of the holiday season. 00:02:38.689 --> 00:02:42.050 So last year, I made a promise to myself that 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:46.289 this episode would run not only in December of 00:02:46.289 --> 00:02:51.830 2024, but also December 1st of 2025 to give it 00:02:51.830 --> 00:02:55.550 the full spectrum of holiday joy that it deserves. 00:02:55.969 --> 00:02:58.810 So I think the best way to lead into this episode 00:02:58.810 --> 00:03:01.949 is to get the frown off your face. We're going 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:04.710 to replace it with a grin and a dream come true 00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:08.199 because This episode of My Weekly Mixtape is 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.860 truly a dream come true for me. So sit back with 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:15.780 your cider nut wine, maybe grab a mess of mama's 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:19.800 barbecue, and enjoy this celebration of Emmett 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.080 Otter's Jug Band Christmas and the Muppet movie 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.539 with the one and only Paul Williams. There are 00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:32.000 simply no words to express how grateful I am 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:34.550 to welcome tonight's guest. He's written hits 00:03:34.550 --> 00:03:38.210 for Three Dog Night, The Carpenters, Barbra Streisand, 00:03:38.469 --> 00:03:40.889 The Monkees, and Daft Punk, just to name a few. 00:03:41.169 --> 00:03:43.969 He's appeared on screen in Smokey and the Bandit, 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.930 The Muppet Movie, Oliver Stone's The Doors, and 00:03:46.930 --> 00:03:50.349 many others. And along with that, he's the president 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:53.009 of the ASCAP Board of Directors, an essential 00:03:53.009 --> 00:03:56.930 resource for songwriters, composers, and music 00:03:56.930 --> 00:04:00.449 publishers. But most importantly, for me at least, 00:04:00.889 --> 00:04:04.030 He is the songwriter responsible for my favorite 00:04:04.030 --> 00:04:07.810 song of all time, The Rainbow Connection. It's 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:11.069 my absolute honor to welcome the one and only 00:04:11.069 --> 00:04:13.949 Paul Williams to my weekly mixtape. Thank you 00:04:13.949 --> 00:04:16.509 for joining me, Paul. Thank you, Brian. I really 00:04:16.509 --> 00:04:18.730 appreciate it. You know, the one great thing 00:04:18.730 --> 00:04:20.910 about what we do for a living, we don't have 00:04:20.910 --> 00:04:22.889 to give up our fan card. I mean, you don't give 00:04:22.889 --> 00:04:25.629 up yours. I don't give up mine. So when you talk 00:04:25.629 --> 00:04:29.649 about the Muppets. You're talking about Jim Henson 00:04:29.649 --> 00:04:34.829 and Brian Henson and the Henson family and some 00:04:34.829 --> 00:04:39.889 of my dearest friends, Gonzo and Kermit and the 00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:43.829 gang. So this is something I love talking about 00:04:43.829 --> 00:04:48.449 people that I love and whatever Gonzo is. Well, 00:04:48.550 --> 00:04:50.610 before we get to the good stuff, I always like 00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:53.750 to start by asking my first time guests, what 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:59.040 does the word mixtape mean to you? Ah, I remember 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.879 my daughter when she was in high school, had 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:07.180 just been accepted at Tulane. And she said, Dad, 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.319 I asked her about something, what she was listening 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:14.100 to. And she said, well, my mixtape is, and she 00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:16.939 had everything from, you know, from reggae to 00:05:16.939 --> 00:05:19.939 Sarah Vaughan to, you know, and it's like, and. 00:05:20.540 --> 00:05:23.540 There was an immediate reassurance that I had 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:28.120 a culturally diverse and a daughter, but beyond 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.360 culturally diverse, it's, I would say, genre 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.980 diverse and time frame as far as point of creation, 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:40.939 curiosity, which was wonderful to hear. You know, 00:05:40.939 --> 00:05:45.339 so it's like the idea that she could have a Hank 00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:50.069 Williams record. And then after listening to 00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:53.449 that, listening to Edith Piaf or something, you 00:05:53.449 --> 00:05:55.850 kind of go, wow, and then jump into Daft Punk 00:05:55.850 --> 00:05:58.170 because you got to pay attention to dad once 00:05:58.170 --> 00:06:02.750 in a while. Well, there are so many areas of 00:06:02.750 --> 00:06:04.730 your career that we could dive into, but tonight 00:06:04.730 --> 00:06:07.709 we're going to hone in on two specific soundtracks 00:06:07.709 --> 00:06:10.670 that you played a major role in. Now, given the 00:06:10.670 --> 00:06:12.790 time of year it is, I think it's only fitting 00:06:12.790 --> 00:06:16.430 that we start with what is, in my humble opinion, 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:21.160 the greatest Christmas special ever, that being 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:24.839 Emmett Otter's Jug Band Christmas. This was the 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.800 special that I grew up watching year in and year 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.360 out, and my wife and I have been lucky enough 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.420 to be able to continue that tradition with our 00:06:32.420 --> 00:06:35.800 children each and every Christmas Eve. Paul, 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.480 when Emmett Otter was in its earliest stages 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.879 of development, what were you working with when 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:44.379 you were composing these songs? Was it just the 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:47.089 script? Or did you have an idea of what these 00:06:47.089 --> 00:06:49.629 characters would already look and sound like? 00:06:50.170 --> 00:06:55.110 Well, first of all, where the title appeared 00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:57.689 before me for the first time was on a book that 00:06:57.689 --> 00:07:00.889 Jim Henson handed me in England. I went over 00:07:00.889 --> 00:07:04.089 to do The Muppet Show. I was on the first season. 00:07:04.129 --> 00:07:07.089 I think it was like the fifth episode or something, 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:09.490 fifth or eighth, I don't know. But it was the 00:07:09.490 --> 00:07:13.300 first season of The Muppet Show. And I was already 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:16.600 a huge fan of the Muppets. I mean, all the way 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.839 back to Jim with his slinkies on the Ed Sullivan 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.540 show. I loved them. On the road, my band and 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:25.699 I watched Sesame Street probably more than the 00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:30.620 evening news in those days. I always joke that 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:32.519 there were members of my band that learned how 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.860 to use a fork watching Sesame Street. So I was 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:39.240 a big, big fan. And when I went over to do the 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.839 Muppet show, It was like stepping under, you 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.480 know, I felt, you know, in Emmett Otter's Jugman 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.759 Christmas, the guys have a treehouse. And I felt 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.420 like when I walk on the set of The Muppet Show, 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.120 I felt like I was in a treehouse with a gang 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.800 that I belonged to. I had never felt a more immediate 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:01.579 connection to a group of performers. The Muppet 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:05.379 performers were like instant family. You know, 00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:07.259 we treated each other with the same respect. 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:11.610 and disrespect humorously. It was great. And 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:15.410 so I had the best time I think the gym did and 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.649 the whole gang did. It's just an amazing environment 00:08:18.649 --> 00:08:22.410 to work in. But he handed me a book and he said, 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:25.329 you know what? This is an amazing little story 00:08:25.329 --> 00:08:28.829 by the Hobans. We're going to do a one -hour 00:08:28.829 --> 00:08:32.269 special based on this. It's called Emmett Otter's 00:08:32.269 --> 00:08:35.360 Jug Band Christmas. And I would really like for 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:40.840 you to write the songs for it. And, I mean, I 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.220 was thrilled, of course, first of all, to have 00:08:43.220 --> 00:08:45.940 him want to do something specifically with me. 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.440 Okay. When you work with Muppets, you act like 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.259 a Muppet every now and then. But, you know, so 00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:56.799 what existed was, first of all, the book, and 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.360 then Jerry Jewell's script was the next thing 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.840 I was handed. There are actually some of the 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:07.200 titles of the songs are in the book. There's 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:10.399 a song about the bathing suit. I mean, there's 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:12.600 no lyrics, there's no song, but there's just, 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.899 you know, Amon and Amal were rowing down the 00:09:16.899 --> 00:09:19.500 river, whatever, singing the bathing suit that 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:23.820 Grandma Otter wore, or a title that was close. 00:09:24.539 --> 00:09:27.539 But, you know, I went off and wrote the songs. 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.019 I approach writing anything where there's a story 00:09:31.019 --> 00:09:33.980 and characters. as an actor i mean i started 00:09:33.980 --> 00:09:36.080 out as an actor i couldn't make a living at it 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:40.799 and i i evolved in you know one door slams down 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.720 sometimes on your fingers so you open another 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.559 one and the one that i opened it was open for 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:49.279 me was to write songs so all of a sudden i'm 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.340 sitting looking at these characters there are 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:55.460 two goals in writing songs for a a show like 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:58.980 eminata or or the muppet christmas carol or any 00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:03.399 story with characters First of all, you don't 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.799 want to bog things down for a song. You want 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.259 to keep the story rolling. So it's like advance 00:10:09.259 --> 00:10:12.980 the story and let's learn something about the 00:10:12.980 --> 00:10:15.620 inner life of the characters. So those are my 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:19.539 two goals. So I can write a song like Hole in 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:23.840 the Bathtub. or in the wash tub rather, that 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.899 advances the story, you know, like everything 00:10:26.899 --> 00:10:29.320 is super in life, you know, head full of good 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.639 thoughts, belly full of grub, you know, money 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.620 in your pocket when there ain't no hole in the 00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:37.320 wash tub. And at the same token, write a song, 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:40.039 you know, like When the River Meets the Sea, 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:43.139 which speaks to kind of maybe an interfaith, 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:47.039 you know, where Ma and Emmett are about the fact 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:50.950 that they've lost the potter. He's on the other 00:10:50.950 --> 00:10:53.490 side of the veil. So there's a little inner life 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:57.289 there and all. But basically, the stylings of 00:10:57.289 --> 00:11:01.389 the songs is pretty much Americana. And I mean, 00:11:01.429 --> 00:11:03.889 beyond my knowledge of Stephen Foster or whatever, 00:11:04.289 --> 00:11:07.110 I mean, that was not the genre that I had ever 00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:10.669 really, really written for. And I didn't really 00:11:10.669 --> 00:11:13.970 research it. What I wrote came out of the characters. 00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:16.649 And I was told after the fact, you've been writing 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:19.580 basically Americana music. with your words and 00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:23.039 music to songs like When the River Meets the 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:25.539 Sea and the like. So it's a long, long answer 00:11:25.539 --> 00:11:29.440 to a really good question. Well, how much was 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.460 Jim Henson involved during the songwriting process? 00:11:32.620 --> 00:11:35.299 Because I'm sure he had a vision for what would 00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:37.960 be shown in the film during the performances 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.259 of these songs. Well, he had a script about what 00:11:41.259 --> 00:11:45.299 was going on, the songs I wrote, and he, thank 00:11:45.299 --> 00:11:48.519 God, loved them. One of the things that was most 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:51.200 unique about Jim was that he was not somebody 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.919 who micromanaged the people that he worked with. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.360 I think that applies to all of the Muppet performers. 00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:04.879 It was a classic moment when I was brought in 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.230 to do the songs for the Muppet movie. And I think 00:12:08.230 --> 00:12:10.669 in a lot of ways, Emma Daughter's Jug Band Christmas 00:12:10.669 --> 00:12:13.730 was kind of an audition for me to see if I'd 00:12:13.730 --> 00:12:16.269 be the right guy for the Muppet movie. I said 00:12:16.269 --> 00:12:19.009 yes, but I also decided to bring Kenny Asher 00:12:19.009 --> 00:12:21.769 in because his music is more sophisticated than 00:12:21.769 --> 00:12:24.730 mine. So beautiful. We write words and music 00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:27.789 at the same time, so we do both. I'm basically 00:12:27.789 --> 00:12:31.330 lyrics, he's basically music and all. But one 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:33.309 of the first things we did is we met at my house 00:12:33.309 --> 00:12:35.710 in the Hollywood Hills with Jim and Jerry Jewell, 00:12:35.809 --> 00:12:38.620 the script writer. I think Frank Oz was there 00:12:38.620 --> 00:12:42.220 and talked about what the Muppet movie would 00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:45.379 be about, a road picture of frogs discovered 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:48.500 in the blah, blah, blah, blah. And walking Jim 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:51.340 to his car, and I've told this story a lot, walking 00:12:51.340 --> 00:12:54.159 him to his car, I said, you know, Jim, this is 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.240 a big deal for you guys. I know that, and for 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.120 me too. And we're not going to surprise you when 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:02.720 we're working on the songs. I want you to see 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.730 what we're doing. Make sure we're headed in the 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:08.990 right direction. And he said, oh, Paul, I'm sure 00:13:08.990 --> 00:13:11.950 you didn't say Paulie then, but oh, Paul, I don't 00:13:11.950 --> 00:13:14.230 need that. Yeah, I'll hear him in the studio 00:13:14.230 --> 00:13:18.049 when you're recording. And I was like, did I 00:13:18.049 --> 00:13:22.669 hear that right? He was, in fact, I think so 00:13:22.669 --> 00:13:26.129 secure with the choices that he made. And I think 00:13:26.129 --> 00:13:28.250 he was smart enough to realize there's a certain 00:13:28.250 --> 00:13:31.740 point where you don't try to guide. somebody, 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:34.679 you know, towards a very specific goal beyond. 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:38.820 That's the point in the horizon that we're sailing 00:13:38.820 --> 00:13:42.139 to. I trust you to find your way to it in your 00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:45.100 own way, and it's going to be appropriate to 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:48.759 the story and the characters and all. But I think 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.840 the other thing that he was capable of was being 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:55.820 totally surprised by what he heard and not just 00:13:55.820 --> 00:14:00.320 rejecting it based. on the fact that it was not 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.360 in his original vision. I think part of the joy 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:09.460 of being a creative artist for Jim, and it's 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:12.919 a supposition on my part, but I think I saw the 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.820 way he laughed at stuff that Dave Goldsch would 00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:19.019 do with Gonzo or some of the other characters 00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:24.259 or Jerry Nelson. And he was the first observer 00:14:24.259 --> 00:14:27.710 of... of some great performances. And I think, 00:14:27.710 --> 00:14:30.950 I think that kept him solidly in that place where 00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:35.190 he allowed the world of, of his creators to surprise 00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:38.870 him. Well, then I want to kind of hone in on 00:14:38.870 --> 00:14:41.830 that for a second, because in Emmett Otter, there 00:14:41.830 --> 00:14:45.029 are instrumental moments throughout the show 00:14:45.029 --> 00:14:48.950 that are kind of driven by the songs talking 00:14:48.950 --> 00:14:52.529 about carrots, the dancing horse or the acrobatic 00:14:52.529 --> 00:14:55.600 squirrels. Was there anything written in the 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.700 script that would say, we're looking for whimsical, 00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:01.940 we're looking for circus? Or did you just kind 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:04.440 of read the script and those sounds just popped 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.679 up in your head? I don't remember the specifics. 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.000 I mean, it might have said, you know, like a 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:13.039 somber mood, you know, like the, you know, the 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.159 candle lights are blown out, you know, it's the 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:21.759 end of the day and there might be like a ballad 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.659 to come, whatever. But, you know, he was not. 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.460 I mean, if I could read that script and not know 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.220 what that should feel like, I was the wrong guy 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:36.279 for the job, you know. But the other thing is 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:39.240 that there are several things that I recorded 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:43.200 and wrote and recorded and produced through the 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.080 years where I was on the road with my band. I 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:51.909 had a fantastic road band. And they knew me so 00:15:51.909 --> 00:15:54.629 well. I mean, that's like literally with, you 00:15:54.629 --> 00:15:56.750 know, I don't know if you're a fan of Phantom 00:15:56.750 --> 00:15:58.850 of the Paradise, but there's all these different 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:01.090 kinds of music in there. And I would go in with 00:16:01.090 --> 00:16:04.090 a chord sheet and a lyric sheet that I had on 00:16:04.090 --> 00:16:06.610 the road. We'd do like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 00:16:06.669 --> 00:16:08.870 Sunday gigs. Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, 00:16:08.950 --> 00:16:11.269 we'd sneak into a studio. A lot of times it was 00:16:11.269 --> 00:16:15.730 Sigma Sound in Philadelphia. I'd pass out the 00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:18.409 chord sheets, and this is something I just wrote. 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:29.080 And I'm like, okay, so it's... And they start 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.340 playing, you know. On Phantom of the Paradise, 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:34.419 it was a matter of sitting down and going, okay, 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:43.960 Beach Books. I was not myself last night. I lost 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.879 the fight. My woody barely run. They delivered 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.580 amazing performances immediately. And it was 00:16:52.580 --> 00:16:56.019 a creative relationship that was just, I mean, 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.639 I don't know that I could have done any of the 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:02.720 scores. And also on Emmett Otter, all that background 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.319 music was, we just, there was no click track. 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.680 There was no, it was, we would screen, you know, 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:15.559 like that first scene with the, I'm trying to 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.319 remember what the opening cue was. But I would 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.579 look at it, and I'd sing or play what I wanted 00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:33.200 for the guys. Guitar. Maybe, you know, and the 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.480 guys would play it. So we're, you know, with, 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:39.099 all right, roll tape, and we would play a cue, 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:42.599 go on to the next cue. And that's the way I worked 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:47.049 on that. Then you find me later on with things 00:17:47.049 --> 00:17:48.990 like, you know, the Anne from Burt Reynolds, 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:56.910 or even the Muppet movie, where it's... I'm sitting 00:17:56.910 --> 00:17:59.170 there with a great orchestrator next to me, you 00:17:59.170 --> 00:18:02.150 know, and with that orchestrator, I'm going, 00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:05.450 I'm hearing... I'm hearing arco basses there, 00:18:05.569 --> 00:18:08.509 and I'm hearing a flute at the top, maybe with 00:18:08.509 --> 00:18:11.369 high strings. Every now and then he'd turn to 00:18:11.369 --> 00:18:14.359 me and he'd say, congratulations. you just killed 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:16.819 a horn player because the horn player can't get 00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:20.200 into that register you know because i have no 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.980 training so i don't know what i'm doing but it's 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:25.400 like you know it's like the bumblebee cannot 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:29.039 fly it's been scientifically proven that the 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.140 wings aren't big enough but the bumblebee doesn't 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:36.019 know that he can't fly so he does the end of 00:18:36.019 --> 00:18:39.400 the movie being there Chauncey Gardner does not 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.960 sink in the pond because he's so naive that he 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.220 thinks he can walk on water. So he does. I thought 00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:49.599 I could do music when I was asked to. So I did. 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:53.400 Well, now you were talking about your band playing 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.559 these songs. There's no denying, even though 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.119 they're the antagonists in Emmett Otter, the 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.640 impact that the Riverbottom Nightmare Band had 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.619 on both the special itself and then the hearts 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:08.200 of us who grew up watching it. That song was 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.400 obviously either inspired or influenced by the 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:13.940 psychedelic rock scene of the decade, like Iron 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.579 Butterfly, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors. Was that 00:19:16.579 --> 00:19:20.160 how you presented it to the band? You know, the 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.980 fact that I write certain kinds of music, for 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:25.700 example, you know, when I first started out, 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.700 I was a very middle -of -the -road writer. I 00:19:27.700 --> 00:19:30.460 loved, you know, the Laurel Canyon crowd and 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:32.279 wished I was a part of it, but I was writing 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.500 for, you know... Thank God, the Carpenters and 00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:38.559 Three Dog Night and amazing bands and amazing 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:42.839 musicians, but not really the Metallica crowd. 00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:47.319 Incidentally, I saw Metallica live at the Library 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.880 of Congress when Elton and Bernie were given 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.119 the Gershwin Prize. And I had never seen Metallica, 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.720 and I somehow missed that the opening band was 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.470 Metallica that I did not recognize. But I went 00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:04.890 nuts. I was, oh, my God, the guitar work. I like 00:20:04.890 --> 00:20:08.490 that. That's Metallica. I went, oh, that's Metallica? 00:20:08.809 --> 00:20:11.849 You know, it's like Michael Keaton in Starman 00:20:11.849 --> 00:20:14.410 when he tastes apple pie the first time and he 00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:19.809 goes, that's apple pie? So there's, I mean, when 00:20:19.809 --> 00:20:22.950 I was writing for, you know, before I had any 00:20:22.950 --> 00:20:25.569 hits going, I was writing album cuts for Steve 00:20:25.569 --> 00:20:28.589 Lawrence or, you know, the Peppermint Trolley 00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:31.630 or whatever. or when I was writing for the Carpenters 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:36.049 and the like, or Helen Reddy, or Stryson. The 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:39.529 music I was listening to was the original Delaney 00:20:39.529 --> 00:20:44.450 and Bonnie and Friends. I was a huge fan of Poco, 00:20:44.609 --> 00:20:49.930 and my taste was much more rock and roll than 00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:52.759 what I was creating. So when I sit down and I 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:56.339 have a chance to write for Dr. Teeth, you know, 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:58.579 you know, or the Riverbottom Nightmare Band, 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:02.299 I was like, I dive in. I love it. Well, the one 00:21:02.299 --> 00:21:04.220 question I want to ask you from a songwriting 00:21:04.220 --> 00:21:07.680 perspective for Emmett Otter, when you were writing 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.859 Our World and Brothers, the theme of those songs, 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.019 and I hope I'm not spoiling the ending to Emmett 00:21:14.019 --> 00:21:16.319 Otter here. If you haven't seen it, skip over 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.690 this part. the theme of those songs are the fact 00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:22.369 that they work better together than separate. 00:21:22.750 --> 00:21:25.569 So when you were writing it, did you write the 00:21:25.569 --> 00:21:28.430 combined version first and then break out the 00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:31.329 two other songs? Or did you write each song and 00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:33.490 say, how the heck am I supposed to put these 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:36.990 together now? You just kind of described it perfectly. 00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:41.789 It had to be a... The way that it came together 00:21:41.789 --> 00:21:45.910 was realizing that they had to fit at each piece. 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:48.349 So to write two separate songs and try to do 00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:50.049 that would have been crazy. So I went, we're 00:21:50.049 --> 00:21:54.230 close. We're closer now than ever before. How 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:57.670 much alike we are. Perhaps we're long lost brothers. 00:21:58.230 --> 00:22:01.710 You know, there's love in our world and we're 00:22:01.710 --> 00:22:04.230 showing it more. We even think we're the same. 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:07.519 You know, there may be others. I wrote the second 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.980 song as kind of an answer to each line of the 00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:14.000 first song. And then I got out musical scissors 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.400 and cut them in two and went, we're closer now 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.980 than ever before. There's love in our world and 00:22:20.980 --> 00:22:25.619 we're showing it more. So they each existed separately 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:29.559 and enough to be an actual song. I think that 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:34.220 they're both equally sentimental. And it worked. 00:22:34.299 --> 00:22:36.740 I mean, it was wonderful. It's one of those things 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.680 where you go, you know, you can write it and 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.339 try to put them together and hope it fits, or 00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:44.440 you can write it as a two -piece thing and hope 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.380 that it works as two separate songs. And it did. 00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:50.660 And, of course, you go back to the way it was 00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:54.539 played. If you haven't heard it, My Morning Jacket, 00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:58.200 there's an album called The Green Album. Yes. 00:22:58.299 --> 00:23:03.480 And My Morning Jacket doing... Brothers in our 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.119 world, it's stunning. To me, it sounds like a 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.740 Beatles recording. It sounds like something that 00:23:09.740 --> 00:23:15.380 could have been on a revolver. And I'm talking 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:17.900 about the performance, not necessarily the songs, 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:22.359 although it's a great surprise when you hear 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:25.839 somebody perform in a way that just makes it 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:30.180 brand new and really exciting for the creator. 00:23:31.929 --> 00:23:35.049 And Jim James really did that for me. I mean, 00:23:35.049 --> 00:23:38.849 with with Morning Jacket. And one last holiday 00:23:38.849 --> 00:23:40.349 related question here, because you did bring 00:23:40.349 --> 00:23:42.250 it up in one of your other answers, as you also 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:44.230 wrote the music for The Muppet Christmas Carol. 00:23:44.549 --> 00:23:47.230 However, in this instance, you worked with Brian 00:23:47.230 --> 00:23:50.009 Henson, who made his directorial debut on that 00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:52.950 film. Given your work with Jim in the past and 00:23:52.950 --> 00:23:54.990 your connection to the family and all the other 00:23:54.990 --> 00:23:57.440 Muppet performers through the years. What were 00:23:57.440 --> 00:23:59.640 the similarities and differences between working 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.119 with Jim and Brian? Well, you know, Brian had 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.940 always been a part of the Henson experience for 00:24:05.940 --> 00:24:10.039 me. I mean, he worked on the early projects in 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:14.180 various capacities. I mean, he just, it's in 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:18.640 his DNA. And the fact is, and there are differences. 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:23.000 I mean, it's like there was a focus and an intensity. 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:27.319 to Brian, you know, and Jim was very kind of 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.960 laid back and, you know, play a song for Jim. 00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:34.099 And I remember, for example, played, I'm going 00:24:34.099 --> 00:24:36.819 to go back there someday for him, a song that 00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:38.839 was not called for in the script. And Jim was 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:46.259 like, oh, oh, my, oh, it's pretty. He wandered 00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:48.619 off. It was like, that's the way Jim said no. 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.000 You know, I think Brian would have gone. It doesn't 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:56.160 work. But what Brian did with the Muppet Christmas 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.599 Carol is still stunning to me. And what Jim did 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.680 is, of course, equally stunning. But it felt 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:09.759 like in some ways Brian just, God, I mean, what 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:14.400 a debut. Jim developed his career through the 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.660 years and never lost that playfulness or that. 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:23.140 that sweetness and the edgy humor that went with 00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:27.319 it. And Brian has those same elements, and it 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:31.339 seems like he did it off the starting line. A 00:25:31.339 --> 00:25:34.200 lot of people have said through the years that 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.220 the Muppet Christmas Carol is the best of the 00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:43.369 film Christmas carols. I mean, just to be included 00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:48.829 with the original, the earlier films is amazing, 00:25:48.990 --> 00:25:51.309 but I also see what they're talking about because 00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:55.630 I think there's a heart to the Muppet Christmas 00:25:55.630 --> 00:25:59.910 Carol that is rare and really touching, and it's 00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:03.569 pure Henson. It's the Henson family, the Henson 00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:06.180 performers, you know. And you know what? I'm 00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:09.799 just a good fit with those guys. I feel my heart 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:14.380 is tugged at the same places theirs are. Well, 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.240 for the mixtapers listening tonight, if you'd 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:18.339 like to hear the songs we're talking about in 00:26:18.339 --> 00:26:20.400 this discussion, be sure to visit the episode 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.700 page at myweeklymixtape .com, where I'll have 00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:26.480 all the songs embedded in a playlist for your 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.720 listening pleasure. Now, Paul, let's pivot now 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.140 to 1979's The Muppet Movie and the soundtrack 00:26:33.140 --> 00:26:35.680 that, once again, you played such a pivotal role 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:38.799 in. You had mentioned earlier that your working 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.519 relationship with Jim Henson on Emmett Otter 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.519 was kind of like the tryout for The Muppet Movie. 00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:49.299 How did that pave the way for you both to essentially 00:26:49.299 --> 00:26:53.460 up the ante in every aspect for the first Muppets 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:57.130 theatrical film? Well, I don't think, I'm not 00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:59.869 sure we did any of that and paving the way or 00:26:59.869 --> 00:27:01.930 whatever. Like what we did is the next sweet 00:27:01.930 --> 00:27:04.609 thing we got to do together. You know, there 00:27:04.609 --> 00:27:10.190 is, you know, I mean, I'm hesitant just, you 00:27:10.190 --> 00:27:13.390 know, it's called the present because it's a 00:27:13.390 --> 00:27:17.630 gift. Something about being in the moment and 00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:27.140 involved in something that is so much fun. so 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:31.319 impactful on just your basic psyche. Because 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.380 when you sit down to work with the market performers 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:38.579 and under the leadership of Jim, you're stepping 00:27:38.579 --> 00:27:41.380 into a world that it's impossible not to just 00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:44.960 take big breaths and go, how did I get here? 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.519 Oh my God, how did I get here? And then you are, 00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:55.029 in my case, I was awash with gratitude and, To 00:27:55.029 --> 00:27:57.250 be working with Kenny, and it's interesting, 00:27:57.470 --> 00:28:02.369 you know, the classic case of two guys that are 00:28:02.369 --> 00:28:05.190 really right for something, writing something 00:28:05.190 --> 00:28:09.250 is easy to sell. What a lot of people don't know 00:28:09.250 --> 00:28:11.430 about is those two guys sitting down and writing, 00:28:11.569 --> 00:28:15.509 for example, the first verse of a song like Rainbow 00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:18.460 Connection. where you just write something where 00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:21.819 at the end of those first couple lines, you look 00:28:21.819 --> 00:28:24.279 at each other and you go, eek, what have we done? 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:27.380 Think about it. Why are there so many songs about 00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:31.519 rainbows? And what's on the other side? Rainbows 00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:34.700 are visions, but only illusions. Rainbows have 00:28:34.700 --> 00:28:36.880 nothing to hide. And we looked at each other 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.779 and went, oh, crap, wait a minute. Well, now 00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:44.400 we've done it. Look what we did. We just denied. 00:28:45.099 --> 00:28:48.380 the existence of any magic, any mystical anything 00:28:48.380 --> 00:28:52.819 other than just an illusion, you know, to rainbows. 00:28:53.420 --> 00:28:57.740 But what happened then is a pure gift from the 00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:01.079 muse or the big amigo or the universe or what, 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:06.279 but what happens next is Kermit sits in the next 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.359 line, walks away from the podium in a sense, 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:13.549 stops being the teacher or the mentor. And he 00:29:13.549 --> 00:29:16.410 sings, so we've been told and some choose to 00:29:16.410 --> 00:29:19.549 believe it. I know the wrong way to see. Someday 00:29:19.549 --> 00:29:22.329 we'll find it. The rainbow connection, the lovers, 00:29:22.490 --> 00:29:25.430 the dreamers, and me. What happens in that moment 00:29:25.430 --> 00:29:27.769 is he truly becomes a member of the audience. 00:29:28.190 --> 00:29:29.970 And we're sitting there and now they're telling 00:29:29.970 --> 00:29:34.829 us it's just illusions. And later on in the song, 00:29:34.990 --> 00:29:37.750 who said that every wish would be heard and answered 00:29:37.750 --> 00:29:40.430 when wished on the morning star? Somebody thought 00:29:40.430 --> 00:29:43.980 of that. And someone believed it. Look what it's 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:48.720 done so far. There is elements of a faith in 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.839 there that is very personal to me. I believe 00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.420 that what we dwell on, we create. If I keep thinking, 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:56.160 I'm not going to get that job, I'm not going 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.980 to get that job. Why should I bother? I'm not 00:29:57.980 --> 00:30:00.480 going to get that job. It's like I'm absolutely 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:04.079 giving the universe my plans for this immediate 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.880 future as opposed to, wow, what's coming next? 00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.289 Oh, that would be a great job. But if I don't 00:30:11.289 --> 00:30:13.170 get that, whatever I do get is probably going 00:30:13.170 --> 00:30:17.089 to be better. That mindset, I think, has a solid 00:30:17.089 --> 00:30:20.650 influence on maybe in a co -creator in my future. 00:30:20.950 --> 00:30:26.069 It's almost like delivering your list. You pull 00:30:26.069 --> 00:30:28.990 up to the window at a fast food place and let 00:30:28.990 --> 00:30:30.650 them know what you want, and they give it to 00:30:30.650 --> 00:30:33.990 you. I'm not suggesting that I am turning the 00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:37.670 universe into a fast food window. What I'm saying 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:41.440 is that our intention. Our intention speaks louder 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:46.119 than we do sometimes. And so that amazing moment 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:51.700 in writing Rainbow Connection with Kenny is something 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:54.180 that I look back on and I go, you know what? 00:30:54.339 --> 00:30:57.059 I don't know who else's names to put on the sheet 00:30:57.059 --> 00:31:00.259 music, but it feels like there's a lot of energy 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:03.579 and a lot of brilliance hovering overhead sometimes 00:31:03.579 --> 00:31:06.339 when you're sitting there and you're like, what 00:31:06.339 --> 00:31:09.569 am I going to write? So you postpone it, but 00:31:09.569 --> 00:31:13.990 you don't get to it right away. And then when 00:31:13.990 --> 00:31:15.970 you finally, it's like trying to remember a name, 00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:18.029 it pops into your head, it pours out of you. 00:31:18.589 --> 00:31:21.509 It's a really long answer. I hope that it was 00:31:21.509 --> 00:31:24.529 somewhere close to the question you asked. Are 00:31:24.529 --> 00:31:27.569 you kidding me? I mean, look, I have to kind 00:31:27.569 --> 00:31:31.309 of do an aside here because I started podcasting 00:31:31.309 --> 00:31:35.650 in 2017. And my co -host, Jay Sweet, and I had 00:31:35.650 --> 00:31:37.410 a show for several years called Tune Styles. 00:31:37.650 --> 00:31:39.230 And the whole time when we were building that 00:31:39.230 --> 00:31:41.250 show and getting our feet under us and getting 00:31:41.250 --> 00:31:43.890 this podcast thing going, I kept saying, I want 00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:46.829 to talk to the people whose music meant something 00:31:46.829 --> 00:31:49.930 to me. And I created a list of people that I 00:31:49.930 --> 00:31:52.470 wanted to talk to at some point in life. And 00:31:52.470 --> 00:31:55.390 at the top of that list was Paul Williams because 00:31:55.390 --> 00:31:59.089 of Rainbow Connection. This is the song that 00:31:59.089 --> 00:32:02.329 I danced with my mom to when I was still in preschool. 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.240 She would put the record on because it was my 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.240 album. The Muppet movie was one of the first 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:11.059 albums my parents bought me. And I remember vividly 00:32:11.059 --> 00:32:14.140 walking over and dancing with her to that song, 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.759 to the whole soundtrack. But Rainbow Connection 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.420 was the one that always resonated most with us. 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.579 So fast forward many years down the road. And 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:26.920 in 2005, my wife and I got married. And my mom 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:29.759 said, whatever you do, if you play Kermit the 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.819 Frog. For our mother -son dance, I'll never be 00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:34.500 able to make it through. And I said, don't worry, 00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.960 Ma. I promise you Kermit the Frog will not start 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.259 our mother -son dance. And I was very honest 00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:44.339 about that. Because what I did was, being an 00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:46.740 audio engineer, is I took Kenny Loggins' version 00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.680 of the Rainbow Connection. And I played the first 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.839 few lines of the song. And she whispered in my 00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:54.980 ear and she says, okay, very good, Brian. She 00:32:54.980 --> 00:32:57.500 goes, because if I heard Kermit, I would have 00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:00.950 lost it. Right at the end of the half of the 00:33:00.950 --> 00:33:02.730 verse that you talked about where it went into 00:33:02.730 --> 00:33:05.769 Kermit walking away from the podium, I actually 00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:08.230 crossfaded the two songs and had Kermit finish 00:33:08.230 --> 00:33:12.470 the song. And I'm literally, I'm welling up right 00:33:12.470 --> 00:33:16.950 now talking about it because this song just means 00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:21.150 so much to me and so much to my mom. And she's 00:33:21.150 --> 00:33:23.549 still here. She's going to listen to this episode. 00:33:27.069 --> 00:33:29.150 I really don't have an end to that, but this 00:33:29.150 --> 00:33:32.430 interview means so much to me. Let me tell you 00:33:32.430 --> 00:33:35.190 that that's what I call a heart payment, you 00:33:35.190 --> 00:33:38.470 know, because it's like when I hear a story like 00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:40.730 that about you and your mom and then the fact 00:33:40.730 --> 00:33:42.470 that it was a part of your wedding and all that 00:33:42.470 --> 00:33:47.549 means I was there in some way. I mean, what a 00:33:47.549 --> 00:33:53.470 gift to return to me to share that. So on behalf 00:33:53.470 --> 00:33:56.309 of Kenny Asher and I and on behalf of Kermit, 00:33:56.829 --> 00:33:59.250 Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for taking 00:33:59.250 --> 00:34:02.809 us to the party. And thanks for letting me see 00:34:02.809 --> 00:34:05.569 your heart, you know, because that's all about 00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:09.829 heart. You know, my minister gets very, very 00:34:09.829 --> 00:34:12.769 passionate and touched by things when he's speaking. 00:34:13.570 --> 00:34:16.590 His name is Jim Terrell. And every now and then 00:34:16.590 --> 00:34:18.550 he gets that thing in his throat where he just 00:34:18.550 --> 00:34:24.000 can't make a sound. You know, it's like... And 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.980 he'll wait till he can actually get it out. And 00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:32.800 he always says, God's punctuation. So that little 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.599 thing in your throat, when you're touched and 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.360 all of a sudden your throat tightens up and you 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:40.579 can't speak, that's evidence of a big, big open 00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:45.699 heart. And maybe it's God's punctuation. Like 00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:48.519 I refer to the big amigo as the big amigo because 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:52.789 it's a very friendly. presence. I'm 34 years 00:34:52.789 --> 00:34:56.130 sober. So part of us getting sober is finding 00:34:56.130 --> 00:34:59.469 a higher power of our own understanding. And 00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:01.829 I always said, I don't understand my higher power, 00:35:01.929 --> 00:35:04.849 but I don't understand electricity either, but 00:35:04.849 --> 00:35:09.909 I use it. It lights up my life and the same thing 00:35:09.909 --> 00:35:13.949 with my faith. So thanks for sharing that. That's 00:35:13.949 --> 00:35:18.159 a big deal to me. Well, because I've said all 00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:20.300 of that, I have a lot of questions about this 00:35:20.300 --> 00:35:24.199 song. I've waited 45 years to ask. So the first 00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:28.199 one is, when you were in the studio and Jim Henson 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.820 recorded this vocal track using Kermit's voice, 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.159 what was your initial reaction to hearing this 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.579 song, hearing your lyrics, your and Kenny's creation 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:41.199 come out through Kermit? Well, I produced the 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.659 album, so I was in the studio with Jim, and Jim 00:35:43.659 --> 00:35:45.880 walked up and he sang it beautifully, but something 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.460 was missing. It fell away. And I can't even tell 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:54.059 you what it was or why, but it was a guy named 00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:57.480 Gary Elmer had a great little studio where we 00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:01.679 recorded, and Jim was just at the microphone 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.820 singing. And somewhere along the line, I don't 00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:07.539 know if I suggested it. I don't know that he 00:36:07.539 --> 00:36:12.030 suggested it. I think it was me, but I'm not 00:36:12.030 --> 00:36:15.789 sure that he got Kermit. And he brought Kermit 00:36:15.789 --> 00:36:20.170 in and sat down with a mic in front of him, but 00:36:20.170 --> 00:36:24.130 he had Kermit, and he sang basically one take. 00:36:24.210 --> 00:36:28.190 It just went, lay me down, please, Lord, that's 00:36:28.190 --> 00:36:35.389 magic. And here's what I think about today instead 00:36:35.389 --> 00:36:40.659 of then. I think that it's very possible that 00:36:40.659 --> 00:36:43.860 the vocal to the first one was exactly the same 00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.900 as the vocal to the second one. But what happened 00:36:46.900 --> 00:36:51.019 is when you cast it as Kermit and you see Kermit, 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:55.079 your heart responds, or better yet, my heart 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:58.159 responded at that moment to everything Kermit 00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:02.079 meant to me and means to all of us. And to hear 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:05.400 Kermit delivering that exact same performance. 00:37:06.420 --> 00:37:08.820 Might have just been the difference. In other 00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:14.420 words, I think that Jim needed to sing it better. 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.719 Perhaps I needed to listen more lovingly. Well, 00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:21.699 the follow up on that question, you did appear 00:37:21.699 --> 00:37:25.039 in the Muppet movie in the bar scene as the piano 00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.280 player. I'm curious, were you on set the day 00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:31.340 that Jim performed Rainbow Connection as Kermit 00:37:31.340 --> 00:37:33.239 for the movie? Were you on set the whole time 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:37.800 or? On set was that big tank with all that water 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:40.139 and everything. And Jim was underneath that in 00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:46.340 like a little bubble, you know, a tank with his 00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:49.380 arm up through, you know, what the Muppet performers 00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:53.400 go through to deliver the amazingly textured 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.119 and layered performances that they do is just, 00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:00.280 I mean, God, it's amazing. They have serious 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.480 back issues, many of them, shoulders and whatever. 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:09.340 But no, I was not there for that. And I think 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:13.559 I was probably on set for probably a couple of 00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.860 days is all. I mean, I don't remember being around 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:21.099 for most of it. And that's not uncommon for me. 00:38:21.219 --> 00:38:24.460 I think it's, you know, you... You know, you're 00:38:24.460 --> 00:38:26.559 off doing the next thing. You know, I'm booked 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:28.900 to go back and play the piano player and steal 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:34.500 the movie. And so it was great and all, but I 00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:37.000 remember seeing it the first time with the camera 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.039 coming in from, you know, the great overhead 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:42.219 shot down into the swamp and all, and Kenny's 00:38:42.219 --> 00:38:45.320 beautiful strings and the like, and just going, 00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:48.619 wow, you know. But also, you know, I scored, 00:38:48.980 --> 00:38:51.699 I mean, Kenny and I wrote the songs together, 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.210 and as soon as... We'd done the songs and the 00:38:54.210 --> 00:38:56.610 movie was shot. It was time to cut. It was time 00:38:56.610 --> 00:38:59.349 to score the movie. Kenny was going to score 00:38:59.349 --> 00:39:02.070 the movie and do all that beautiful music underneath. 00:39:02.969 --> 00:39:06.789 And Kenny's wife had a baby. And he sat in front 00:39:06.789 --> 00:39:11.210 of the moviola for a couple of days. And he went, 00:39:11.309 --> 00:39:14.170 you know what? I've got a brand new baby at home. 00:39:14.190 --> 00:39:16.570 It's where I'm supposed to be. I cannot stop 00:39:16.570 --> 00:39:19.650 thinking about that. And it was like Jim and 00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:24.489 I both went, go, go. He slid over and I sat down 00:39:24.489 --> 00:39:28.510 and started out with the very first cue. And 00:39:28.510 --> 00:39:34.329 I just, I wrote the, you know, all the background 00:39:34.329 --> 00:39:38.730 music and all based on mostly what we did. And 00:39:38.730 --> 00:39:42.110 I think all along the way, you know, you kind 00:39:42.110 --> 00:39:44.530 of get into like what's doing, doing what's right 00:39:44.530 --> 00:39:48.019 for the piece and then you go away. And then 00:39:48.019 --> 00:39:50.099 you come back and it's changed a little more 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.139 and the sound effects are put in there and all. 00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.940 And it's just, it seemed the first time I saw 00:39:54.940 --> 00:39:57.639 it with an audience and it was absolutely finished. 00:39:57.739 --> 00:40:02.980 I was like, wow, Jim Anson, wow. So I have to 00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:05.960 ask, the song ended up hitting number 25 on the 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:10.199 US Billboard Hot 100 and number 14 on Australia's 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:14.219 Kent Music Report. How did you... Kenneth and 00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:17.039 Jim react to that news that Rainbow Connection 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:20.860 was a top 40 hit? Well, we loved it. We loved 00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:25.860 it and was, you know, obviously very, very excited. 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.280 But I think that was absolutely gravy, you know, 00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:33.420 to know that away from the film, the song had 00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:35.639 a life. We didn't know how much of a life it 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.000 was going to have. And, you know, I recorded 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.320 it with Willie Nelson, a duet with Willie that 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.469 was like, God, like a childhood dream come true 00:40:45.469 --> 00:40:48.710 for me, just like, oh, my God. One of my favorite 00:40:48.710 --> 00:40:51.570 voices in the history of voices has got to be 00:40:51.570 --> 00:40:54.610 Willie Nelson, you know. But all the fabulous 00:40:54.610 --> 00:40:57.849 people that assigned me to do it with Jason Mraz. 00:40:59.289 --> 00:41:02.289 But, you know, it was, again, there's something 00:41:02.289 --> 00:41:05.289 about the now. You work on it, you're, you know, 00:41:05.289 --> 00:41:09.360 and. A lot of that emotion that you're talking 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.559 about, of just the gratitude for how exciting 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.320 it is to see the success, a lot of that I'm getting 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:19.300 right now. I mean, it's like I've still got to, 00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:23.940 you know, you talk about ASCAP. The American 00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.440 Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:31.000 is a million members. We license and collect 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:34.920 the royalties for our membership. We're 110 years 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.380 old. It's a full -time job. But I'm also still 00:41:38.380 --> 00:41:43.280 writing. And I'm doing Pan's Labyrinth right 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.960 now with Guillermo del Toro. I just wrote all 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.480 the lyrics for that. Gustavo Santaolalla's music 00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:53.260 is amazing. And it's Jeremy Hunger writing the 00:41:53.260 --> 00:41:56.840 book based on Guillermo's script. And it's just, 00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:01.099 I mean, it's headed with, for uh for london first 00:42:01.099 --> 00:42:04.300 and then back into new york and it's you know 00:42:04.300 --> 00:42:09.000 jj abrams producing so it's real you know and 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:10.760 i love the work i'm writing with a group called 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:14.039 portugal the man a lot you know and and i love 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.940 portugal the man john gorely and all the guys 00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:20.739 are like family so i stay busy and i've got you 00:42:20.739 --> 00:42:24.300 know a great family two great kids two great 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:29.199 uh step kids as well and four grandchildren And 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:35.260 I live on airplanes. I get to see them all. Well, 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.519 I feel bad going back to Rainbow Connection. 00:42:38.539 --> 00:42:40.699 I have one other question for this one, if you 00:42:40.699 --> 00:42:44.780 don't mind. But song was also used in Disney's 00:42:44.780 --> 00:42:48.920 2011 movie, The Muppets, as both the Muppets 00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:52.099 lounge act version, as well as the grand finale 00:42:52.099 --> 00:42:55.159 to the movie. Were you involved in any capacity 00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:59.990 with that or just the initial songwriter? My 00:42:59.990 --> 00:43:03.610 involvement in that is, I mean, I had no involvement 00:43:03.610 --> 00:43:06.829 in choosing it. I was grateful that they did. 00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:11.289 I had no involvement in using it the ways they 00:43:11.289 --> 00:43:14.989 did twice in the film, and I'm grateful for the 00:43:14.989 --> 00:43:17.989 way they did. And I have a continuing relationship 00:43:17.989 --> 00:43:22.389 around the Muppets with Disney that is a really 00:43:22.389 --> 00:43:27.170 good relationship. And talk about not giving 00:43:27.170 --> 00:43:32.510 up your fan card. I sobbed at Bambi. I mean, 00:43:32.590 --> 00:43:37.369 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was like, talk 00:43:37.369 --> 00:43:42.869 about a cinematic history that is royalty, absolute 00:43:42.869 --> 00:43:45.929 royalty. And to have a relationship with Disney 00:43:45.929 --> 00:43:49.360 is pretty wonderful. Now, talking about the Muppet 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.159 movie soundtrack as a whole, because we did spend 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:52.840 a lot of time on the Rainbow Connection, but 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.199 there's so many amazing songs on this soundtrack 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.619 that are such a huge part of my childhood. It 00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:01.059 seems like every song in the movie kind of shined 00:44:01.059 --> 00:44:03.079 a spotlight on a different character in some 00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:06.320 facet. Moving Right Along was for Fozzie. Never 00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.199 Before, Never Again was for Miss Piggy. I Hope 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.420 That Something Better Comes Along was for Rolf. 00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:14.340 I'm Gonna Go Back There Someday for Gonzo. And 00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:16.559 Can You Picture That for The Electric Mayhem. 00:44:17.179 --> 00:44:20.900 Now, unlike Emmett Otter, you already knew the 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:22.699 Muppet characters because of your involvement 00:44:22.699 --> 00:44:26.320 with the Muppet show. So did it make it easier 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.940 or more challenging to write these songs, having 00:44:28.940 --> 00:44:32.340 already known the characters through the Muppet 00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:37.440 show? You know, the fact is, before I did the 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.320 Muppet show, I had a relationship with those 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.429 characters. I loved them and I loved. I loved 00:44:42.429 --> 00:44:45.610 the depth of the characters because Kermit and 00:44:45.610 --> 00:44:49.730 Gonzo, for example, Kermit is like the Jimmy 00:44:49.730 --> 00:44:55.989 Stewart of... He's every man. He's every frog. 00:44:56.530 --> 00:45:01.869 And then Gonzo is this innocent that also has 00:45:01.869 --> 00:45:05.170 just the wisdom of a Yoda. I mean, there is... 00:45:05.170 --> 00:45:10.170 And Gonzo is a landlocked bird. And there's something 00:45:10.170 --> 00:45:15.960 about... Gonzo, as a landlocked bird, I'm an 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:18.380 old skydiver. I made 100 jumps before I quit, 00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:20.460 and I used to love free fall. I used to love 00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:23.519 relative work. I jumped with the Golden Knights. 00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:26.400 I made a seven -man diamond that I fired out 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:29.719 of for the Circus of the Stars. So I love the 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:33.199 freedom of being in the air like that. There's 00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.539 a limit to it. I mean, we got 80 seconds of free 00:45:35.539 --> 00:45:38.800 fall with the Knights or 60 seconds and civilian 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:42.179 jumps. But so I've got this connection. And there's 00:45:42.179 --> 00:45:45.199 that wonderful scene in the desert when they 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.679 break down on their way to Hollywood and Kermit's 00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:50.360 kind of beating himself up about it. But Kenny 00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.480 and I are going, look at this. Gonzo's sitting 00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.079 out there looking at that sky. You look at each 00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:00.710 other and it's like. what's he thinking? And 00:46:00.710 --> 00:46:04.949 it's like, if he's truly a landlocked bird, does 00:46:04.949 --> 00:46:06.929 that look familiar to him? And so we wrote the 00:46:06.929 --> 00:46:10.170 song and we played it for Jim. And you remember 00:46:10.170 --> 00:46:14.590 the imitation I did of him rejecting a song earlier? 00:46:14.949 --> 00:46:18.469 That's exactly where that happened. Because we 00:46:18.469 --> 00:46:21.210 showed it to him and I sang it and he was like, 00:46:21.329 --> 00:46:29.550 oh, so pretty. And then kind of just left. That's 00:46:29.550 --> 00:46:32.750 it. You know, it was not listed as a place for 00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:34.650 a song. I guess there's not going to go a song 00:46:34.650 --> 00:46:38.130 there. But a couple of days later, Jim shows 00:46:38.130 --> 00:46:42.650 up. And he goes, listen, what do you think of 00:46:42.650 --> 00:46:47.369 this? What if Gonzo buys a bunch of helium balloons 00:46:47.369 --> 00:46:52.070 for Camilla, his also landlocked bird girlfriend? 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.380 And he experiences, it takes him up into the 00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:59.199 air, and he experiences flight. But instead of 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.860 being scared, he's, well, the term I would use 00:47:02.860 --> 00:47:07.860 now is awakened. His spirit is awakened to who 00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:12.139 he really is, where he really belongs. And that 00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:16.139 gives a meaning to the song later on that is 00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:19.019 already there, but to somebody watching the movie, 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.599 you see the trigger to it. That's what created 00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:27.039 that opportunity for that emotion to be expressed 00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:32.480 by Gonzo. That, in a story, in about three sentences 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:37.400 or four, says volumes about who Jim Henson was, 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:42.260 I think. Life is a movie. Write your own ending. 00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:45.880 Keep believing. Keep pretending. We've done just 00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:48.980 what we've set out to do. Thanks to the lovers, 00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:52.480 the dreamers, and you. Was the Magic Store the 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:54.639 last song you guys wrote for the film? Because 00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:57.000 the callback to the Rainbow Connection, as well 00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:59.480 as the way it plays out at the end of that movie, 00:47:59.659 --> 00:48:02.260 I mean, the hair on my arms just stood up reading 00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:04.760 the lyrics alone. It couldn't have been the more 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:08.219 perfect choice. We felt really good about it. 00:48:08.260 --> 00:48:11.920 We knew that we wanted it. There was a listing 00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:14.239 for it. First of all, there's the whole beautiful 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:16.739 ending. where they build a rainbow and it all 00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:19.119 falls apart and there's an explosion, and then 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:23.500 the universe provides a real rainbow. Wow, I 00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:29.260 just got you. I feel like Jim just put his arm 00:48:29.260 --> 00:48:34.500 around me. And so it was a reprise of Rainbow, 00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:38.659 but we wanted to do something more. And we wanted 00:48:38.659 --> 00:48:41.099 to, you know, the thing is, sometimes you need 00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:45.039 to button the lesson. You need to remind people 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:47.199 of what they've just seen, because with all that 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:49.880 travel and all this stuff that's gone on and 00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.480 everything, and this movie, what has happened? 00:48:53.539 --> 00:48:56.420 The line is, life's like a movie. Write your 00:48:56.420 --> 00:49:00.320 own ending. But also the whole message is keep 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:03.099 believing, keep pretending. We've done just for 00:49:03.099 --> 00:49:05.139 you. Well, the keep believing and keep pretending 00:49:05.139 --> 00:49:07.980 is a call back to who said that every wish would 00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:10.119 be heard. And if somebody thought of that and 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.630 someone believed it, and it's... This is a footnote, 00:49:14.630 --> 00:49:19.969 in a sense, that reminds us of the truth of that 00:49:19.969 --> 00:49:24.010 probability that that can happen again, that 00:49:24.010 --> 00:49:26.789 somebody thought of it and someone believed it. 00:49:26.929 --> 00:49:28.789 Life's like a movie, right? You know what I mean? 00:49:29.010 --> 00:49:32.750 Keep believing, keep pretending. We've done just 00:49:32.750 --> 00:49:36.030 what we set out to do. Thanks to the lovers, 00:49:36.309 --> 00:49:43.550 the dreamers, you, and that and you. totally 00:49:43.550 --> 00:49:48.929 now puts Jim, or Kermit rather, back in front 00:49:48.929 --> 00:49:52.389 of the audience and reminds them that they have 00:49:52.389 --> 00:49:56.769 all been a party to the success you're witnessing. 00:49:57.289 --> 00:49:59.909 My entire career, incidentally, has been like 00:49:59.909 --> 00:50:05.409 that. When I get calls from the guys at Daft 00:50:05.409 --> 00:50:09.239 Punk, who saw Phantom of the Paradise 20 times 00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:11.260 and then decide that they're going to start a 00:50:11.260 --> 00:50:14.179 career as a rock band called Daft Punk. And then 00:50:14.179 --> 00:50:16.559 they wind up, you know, coming to me and I write 00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:18.340 a couple of songs and they ask me to sing one 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:21.159 of them. And we win the Grammy for album of the 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:25.400 year. That entire thing is almost, it's almost 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:30.179 a sidecar to what the Muppet movie promises, 00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.539 what Jim promised that Kenny and I think we're 00:50:33.539 --> 00:50:39.460 able to say. fairly clearly, hopefully. And if 00:50:39.460 --> 00:50:43.900 not, it's just a great movie. A great bunch of 00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:46.420 people to work with. A great bunch of furries. 00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:50.260 My favorite furries in the world. Well, Paul, 00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:52.420 to say that I'm grateful for your time today 00:50:52.420 --> 00:50:54.739 would be the understatement of a lifetime. So 00:50:54.739 --> 00:50:56.860 instead, I'm simply going to thank you for the 00:50:56.860 --> 00:51:00.380 decades of sing -alongs. dance parties, and loving 00:51:00.380 --> 00:51:02.559 memories that your music has brought my family 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:05.300 over the years. This has truly been an honor 00:51:05.300 --> 00:51:07.820 of a lifetime for me, and I thank you for joining 00:51:07.820 --> 00:51:11.340 me on my weekly mixtape. You've got a big heart 00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:14.300 and an open heart, Brian. I said it before, and 00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:17.920 I said, and don't let anything, I mean, like, 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.639 we're living through some really interesting, 00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:24.219 scary times and all, so we need that big open 00:51:24.219 --> 00:51:26.619 heart from you. and the people that love your 00:51:26.619 --> 00:51:29.960 podcast. And I'm really grateful and honored 00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:33.460 to have been a part of it, my friend. If I'm 00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:37.119 being perfectly honest with myself, if that ended 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.400 up being the last episode of my weekly mixtape 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:42.920 ever, I feel like the show would have went out 00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:46.340 on a high note. But if nothing else, Paul's words 00:51:46.340 --> 00:51:49.760 inspired me to keep this thing going and work 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:52.219 as hard as I can and to continue to put out. 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:55.519 the positive musical discussions that I try to 00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:59.239 put out each and every week. And 2025 has been 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:02.880 no doubt an extremely tough year for myself as 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.679 well as my family. But being able to sit back 00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.400 down on this microphone and talk music with everybody 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.679 once again brings more joy and gratefulness to 00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:15.079 my heart than words can ever explain. And I've 00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:20.039 got so much in store for 2026. you better sit 00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.440 down and buckle up because I don't know if you're 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:25.159 ready. Because hell, I might not be ready for 00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:29.260 it. If there are topics that you'd like to hear 00:52:29.260 --> 00:52:32.579 me discuss on My Weekly Mixtape, be sure to reach 00:52:32.579 --> 00:52:36.820 out to me at myweeklymixtape at gmail .com. You 00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:39.579 can also hit me up on all the social media haunts 00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:43.940 at myweeklymixtape. You can join the Mixtaper 00:52:43.940 --> 00:52:47.480 community over at patreon .com forward slash. 00:52:48.059 --> 00:52:50.900 My Weekly Mixtape. It's free to join and there 00:52:50.900 --> 00:52:53.059 are other tiers as well if you'd like to support 00:52:53.059 --> 00:52:56.780 the show a little extra. Then to hear a playlist 00:52:56.780 --> 00:52:59.639 of all the songs we discussed in this episode, 00:52:59.739 --> 00:53:03.400 as well as check out the full catalog of My Weekly 00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:08.159 Mixtape episodes, you can do so over at myweeklymixtape 00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:12.039 .com. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:15.699 Spotify or YouTube, please leave a thumbs up 00:53:15.699 --> 00:53:18.739 or a five -star review. Say some kind words about 00:53:18.739 --> 00:53:21.420 the show. It really helps me spread the word 00:53:21.420 --> 00:53:23.860 about what I'm trying to do here at My Weekly 00:53:23.860 --> 00:53:27.619 Mixtape. And I appreciate all of the wonderful 00:53:27.619 --> 00:53:30.619 feedback that you guys continue to provide me 00:53:30.619 --> 00:53:34.260 week in and week out. My name is Brian Colburn. 00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:36.739 This has been my weekly mixtape, and we'll see 00:53:36.739 --> 00:53:39.920 you next week with another fun musical topic. 00:53:40.059 --> 00:53:42.539 But before that, be sure to wash your hands, 00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:44.920 because remember, the sauce mama makes will stay 00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:46.980 there forever if you dare to get it under your 00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:49.940 nails. Have a great week. We'll see you next 00:53:49.940 --> 00:53:50.260 time.