WEBVTT 00:00:02.599 --> 00:00:05.480 Most people think personal growth comes from 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:10.140 success. But the truth is, the deepest transformation 00:00:10.140 --> 00:00:13.740 often happens when everything familiar is stripped 00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:17.199 away. Your home, your relationship, your identity, 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:19.640 even the life you thought you were building. 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:23.000 I'm your host, Edna White, and this is Keeping 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.960 It Real On Purpose, where we talk about the real 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:30.039 moments that shape who we become. Today, I'm 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:33.840 joined by Helen Glanville. CEO of Second Chance 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:37.640 SA, whose life changed through loss, judgment, 00:00:38.259 --> 00:00:41.600 and rebuilding from the ground up. Welcome to 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:46.140 the show. Thank you. Greetings from Australia. 00:00:47.140 --> 00:00:49.960 All right. So Helen, before we get into the deeper 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.460 part of your story, give us a short picture of 00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:56.539 who you are today and the work you do with Second 00:00:56.539 --> 00:01:01.619 Chance SA. Well, 10 years ago, my husband and 00:01:01.619 --> 00:01:05.180 I founded Second Chances SA. Essentially, it's 00:01:05.180 --> 00:01:07.719 a charity for people impacted by the criminal 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:10.920 justice system, people who are often rejected, 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:15.620 unwanted, and in particular the children, the 00:01:15.620 --> 00:01:18.939 children who are, in fact, the hidden or invisible 00:01:18.939 --> 00:01:22.200 victims of crime, because the domino impact on 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.019 the family is huge when a parent is incarcerated. 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:30.099 That was our calling for most of our married 00:01:30.099 --> 00:01:33.120 life. In fact, prior to the 10 years of Second 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.799 Chances, we were with another organisation for 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:41.079 20 years. It really grew as a result of my husband's 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:45.500 own compassion and empathy. However, I have, 00:01:45.739 --> 00:01:49.719 yeah, he experienced imprisonment himself and 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.780 it impacted, he saw the impact on his own children. 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:59.939 have in fact since um founding that organization 00:01:59.939 --> 00:02:05.359 I have retired and my husband passed four years 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:11.360 ago. So I am now a widow and I am talking about 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:17.699 my life. Um how it went through many uh opportunities 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:22.340 for self development and I actually have a phrase 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:26.689 that says that life is a character development 00:02:26.689 --> 00:02:32.389 program. I like that. That I like. Okay, you 00:02:32.389 --> 00:02:36.110 said loving someone with a complicated past forced 00:02:36.110 --> 00:02:38.849 you to face your own fear of judgment. Why do 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:42.169 people judge those relationships so harshly and 00:02:42.169 --> 00:02:47.629 what does that reveal about our own fears? Well, 00:02:47.629 --> 00:02:51.250 it's like anything. It's the unknown. I had the 00:02:51.250 --> 00:02:55.449 opportunity of getting to know husband against 00:02:55.449 --> 00:02:59.270 all the odds against all the opposition. Um I 00:02:59.270 --> 00:03:03.210 think that when you fall deeply in love it covers 00:03:03.210 --> 00:03:08.569 a multitude of opposition and so um we just carried 00:03:08.569 --> 00:03:12.370 on. We were two strong independent thinkers. 00:03:12.650 --> 00:03:15.789 I think that that uh made a difference. I was 00:03:15.789 --> 00:03:20.330 never really a people pleaser. I was never really 00:03:20.330 --> 00:03:27.250 someone who went with the crowd. I had my own 00:03:27.250 --> 00:03:31.449 thoughts and I fell in love with a man who was 00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:35.030 trained in independent thinking. He was a lawyer. 00:03:36.189 --> 00:03:38.909 And I think that when you have a strong mind 00:03:38.909 --> 00:03:42.669 and you can do critical thinking and weigh up 00:03:42.669 --> 00:03:45.129 the pros and the cons and then allow your heart 00:03:45.129 --> 00:03:49.150 to lead you, I think that's where and how you 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:54.469 make life's big decisions. That's good. That's 00:03:54.469 --> 00:03:58.509 great. Many people walk away when life gets complicated. 00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:01.569 What made you stay and what did that decision 00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:07.069 cost you emotionally and socially? I stayed because 00:04:07.069 --> 00:04:09.729 of the power of love. I also have a sense of 00:04:09.729 --> 00:04:14.189 loyalty. I knew there was a hope for our future. 00:04:14.509 --> 00:04:18.490 I knew that together we could make a difference 00:04:18.490 --> 00:04:23.449 and I think we should in many cases, take the 00:04:23.449 --> 00:04:26.670 long view and not the short view. I think this 00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:31.850 world has trained us to want to have immediate 00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:35.449 gratification. Everything has to happen now. 00:04:35.529 --> 00:04:40.029 I want it now. And quite frankly, one of the 00:04:40.029 --> 00:04:47.189 drivers for crime is being impetuous. a lot of 00:04:47.189 --> 00:04:50.589 people especially guys they don't think they 00:04:50.589 --> 00:04:56.009 don't have extended education and they make impulsive 00:04:56.009 --> 00:04:59.069 impetuous decisions because they're with the 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:02.389 wrong crowd and they suddenly decide yes I'll 00:05:02.389 --> 00:05:05.149 drive the getaway car but they haven't thought 00:05:05.149 --> 00:05:08.389 through the long -term implications of that decision. 00:05:09.050 --> 00:05:13.610 So if we're impetuous with our daily decision 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:17.660 making we have a problem. because we haven't 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:22.899 probably counted the cost. Yeah. And what did 00:05:22.899 --> 00:05:30.980 it cost you emotionally to do that? Well, we 00:05:30.980 --> 00:05:35.740 eloped while my husband was in prison. Emotionally, 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:40.160 that was the best day of my life. I didn't want 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.500 my family there because they opposed us. They 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:45.639 were hostile. My husband was 20 years older. 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.860 He had a criminal record. He was penniless. He 00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:52.220 had been a womanizer. So many. He ticked all 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:58.300 the wrong boxes. But emotionally, I was strong. 00:05:58.899 --> 00:06:02.939 I really wanted to proceed with this relationship. 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:07.180 And in the long run, it was the best thing that 00:06:07.180 --> 00:06:12.610 we did. There was a hiccup along the way where 00:06:12.610 --> 00:06:15.509 I was weary. I think that when you're in your 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:22.649 early 20s You can be weary of Sure pressure and 00:06:22.649 --> 00:06:25.529 holding on and waiting and waiting and waiting 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:30.850 But when he was out we got together and we made 00:06:30.850 --> 00:06:33.550 a difference and that's what I wanted to achieve 00:06:33.550 --> 00:06:37.810 and that's what we did achieve I think, too, 00:06:38.129 --> 00:06:40.430 a lot of times in this world and probably other 00:06:40.430 --> 00:06:44.990 worlds, we misconstrue the word love as like 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:47.709 an emotion instead of a dedication or a commitment. 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:50.170 And that's something that you build on all the 00:06:50.170 --> 00:06:53.290 time. And I think that's where we get the instant 00:06:53.290 --> 00:06:55.329 gratification. Well, if I'm with somebody who 00:06:55.329 --> 00:06:57.949 doesn't satisfy me or doesn't tick those boxes 00:06:57.949 --> 00:07:03.129 that everybody else says, then we get objectionable 00:07:03.129 --> 00:07:08.000 about a lot of those things. Not knowing and 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.600 not having loyalty to and that's a great important 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:16.600 Attribute of yours is having that loyalty loyalty 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.620 to understand this person loyalty to you know 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:24.220 Go through and see the end of it You know a lot 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:27.339 of us when we get in we fall in love We we see 00:07:27.339 --> 00:07:30.079 that the right now and then we don't really see 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:35.000 the end goal You don't see that part Well, when 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.120 you're in very unnatural conditions, such as 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.379 separation by imprisonment, you have to give 00:07:42.379 --> 00:07:45.959 him a fair go. You have to wait for him to get 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.920 out to make a difference. But unfortunately, 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.879 a lot of guys, they're in prison. They may not 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.839 have as long a sentence as my husband did, but 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:02.459 invariably women do give up. And the guys inside 00:08:02.459 --> 00:08:05.680 get that Dear John letter. And the Dear John 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.560 letter being, you know, I found someone else. 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.139 I was so committed, I didn't want to find anyone 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:17.259 else. But yeah, I made a commitment. But you've 00:08:17.259 --> 00:08:19.920 got to understand too, not everyone gets married 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.279 while someone's in prison. You know, he had one 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:26.740 month day leave and we got all the right permissions 00:08:26.740 --> 00:08:34.470 to have that ceremony go ahead and it was important 00:08:34.470 --> 00:08:37.470 not to marry before he went to prison because 00:08:37.470 --> 00:08:41.129 the media, he was such a hot topic for the media. 00:08:41.529 --> 00:08:46.029 He didn't want me to be subjected to media scrutiny 00:08:46.029 --> 00:08:50.929 and so by waiting three years that actually avoided, 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:55.269 you know, no longer was he as hot as it had been. 00:08:56.009 --> 00:09:02.629 Okay, okay. You have shared that you lost your 00:09:02.629 --> 00:09:06.309 home in the bushfires and then later your husband. 00:09:07.210 --> 00:09:10.870 When life strips away everything familiar, what 00:09:10.870 --> 00:09:16.850 happens to your identity? Well, I think in this 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:19.029 life, it's very important that we don't attach 00:09:19.029 --> 00:09:23.190 our identity to things. We are living in a material 00:09:23.190 --> 00:09:27.440 world. Yes, we had a lifestyle that was beautiful. 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:30.779 It was 32 years in the Adelaide Hills. It was 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:34.980 a lifestyle. It wasn't just a home. We had 25 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:39.220 acres. We raised cattle on weekends. We looked 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:42.980 after those cattle. We built our own home. We 00:09:42.980 --> 00:09:47.279 raised two sons in that home. We were commuters. 00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:51.480 It was about a 45 minute trip from our home down 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:57.330 to the city. for education and for work. I think, 00:09:57.509 --> 00:10:03.169 however, as much as it pained us to lose it all, 00:10:04.450 --> 00:10:08.309 our age and my husband's health was probably 00:10:08.309 --> 00:10:11.029 a blessing in disguise, even though we didn't 00:10:11.029 --> 00:10:17.350 realise it at the time. My youngest son was in 00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:20.789 India at the time. five days before Christmas, 00:10:21.210 --> 00:10:23.370 and he phoned me and he said, Mom, you may not 00:10:23.370 --> 00:10:26.070 want to hear this, but I have a feeling that 00:10:26.070 --> 00:10:29.590 this is going to be a turning point for good. 00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:35.970 And I have to say, looking back, it was. You 00:10:35.970 --> 00:10:39.710 can start again, as much as my husband's family 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:46.740 history was all destroyed. family ornaments and 00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:49.620 things that were handed down like a French marble 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:53.600 clock. All those little things that we think 00:10:53.600 --> 00:11:00.419 are important. But we started again. We had each 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:02.500 other. That's what was important. We weren't 00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:06.100 damaged in the fires. We weren't there at work. 00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:10.320 So we had an opportunity to start again and we 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.820 did. That's beautiful. Who were you when you 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:17.519 were in those roles like when you lost everything? 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:20.379 Did you think you were someone different or did 00:11:20.379 --> 00:11:23.340 you just say, okay, I got to settle in this and 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:29.480 figure things out? I suppose we were people that 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:33.620 always looked to the future. We weren't melancholics 00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:40.330 that liked to have naval pity parties. there 00:11:40.330 --> 00:11:45.210 are people that study their navels and you know 00:11:45.210 --> 00:11:50.149 get swept up by the emotion of sadness and what 00:11:50.149 --> 00:11:55.110 if and um they're melancholic type personalities 00:11:55.110 --> 00:11:58.590 if you will whereas we were more personalities 00:11:58.590 --> 00:12:03.549 that said okay so what's next how can we go to 00:12:03.549 --> 00:12:06.070 the next step what is the next step and for us 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:11.700 at the time uh we liked the water and my husband 00:12:11.700 --> 00:12:16.159 said let's let's get a boat and as it happened 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.980 we got a houseboat and we were on that houseboat 00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:25.379 for for several years from 21 to when my husband 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:29.700 died Yes, so and and the houseboat was more of 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:33.279 a floating accommodation if you will a floating 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.259 apartment And I stayed there while I was waiting 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:41.600 for my apartment to be finished. And it was an 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.980 interesting lifestyle. It was a great lifestyle. 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.519 It was my husband's happy place. So the oncologist 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:54.179 said, go to your happy place. And for him, that 00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:59.320 was a lovely place for him. So as much as we 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:05.970 don't often like change, change can be good. 00:13:07.169 --> 00:13:12.289 And I have coined a blueprint for trauma. I mean 00:13:12.289 --> 00:13:15.789 it was traumatic to lose absolutely everything 00:13:15.789 --> 00:13:24.370 we'd worked so hard for. But my little phraseology 00:13:24.370 --> 00:13:29.990 is called MAWP, M standing for maintain, like 00:13:29.990 --> 00:13:33.789 before a trauma. event, maintain the things that 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:40.090 brought you fun. So no matter what the traumatic 00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:43.590 event be, whether it's a fire or a car accident 00:13:43.590 --> 00:13:48.549 or whatever, if you were swimming every week 00:13:48.549 --> 00:13:50.909 or if you were playing bridge every week and 00:13:50.909 --> 00:13:55.129 you enjoyed that, maintain it. Don't just wipe 00:13:55.129 --> 00:13:58.029 everything out of your life. Don't give up on 00:13:58.029 --> 00:14:02.049 everything. no matter how little those little 00:14:02.049 --> 00:14:06.250 things might be, you might have coffee with your 00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:09.850 girlfriends once a week. Well, maintain that. 00:14:09.850 --> 00:14:13.629 Keep it going because they are the emotional 00:14:13.629 --> 00:14:17.269 connections that we still need in our life. The 00:14:17.269 --> 00:14:20.350 other one is acceptance. I think some people 00:14:20.350 --> 00:14:24.769 take a long, long time to accept a traumatic 00:14:24.769 --> 00:14:29.309 event and it happened. You can't deny it. it 00:14:29.309 --> 00:14:33.129 happened and one has to accept it. In the case 00:14:33.129 --> 00:14:39.590 of a bushfire what we know is that six to eight 00:14:39.590 --> 00:14:45.129 weeks after a bushfire fresh green shoots of 00:14:45.129 --> 00:14:50.289 growth come through. Yes they do. Yeah it's just 00:14:50.289 --> 00:14:55.110 perpetual, it's never -ending and the seeds in 00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:59.200 the trees they self -propagate. we forget that 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.539 and that can happen in our lives too. We can 00:15:02.539 --> 00:15:07.120 have fresh new green opportunities. That's beautiful. 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.940 Fresh new green things to explore. So that's 00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:15.039 very important. And the other two letters are 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:21.460 P and P. The first P being for priority. Prioritise. 00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:26.230 Prioritise well what really it forced us although 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:29.769 we knew theoretically that priorities in our 00:15:29.769 --> 00:15:34.529 life in practice we we grounded ourselves and 00:15:34.529 --> 00:15:39.350 knew that our priorities were our faith our family 00:15:39.350 --> 00:15:44.830 and our friends and that was important the three 00:15:44.830 --> 00:15:47.970 F's they were our priorities and and sometimes 00:15:47.970 --> 00:15:50.870 we have those priorities not necessarily in that 00:15:50.870 --> 00:15:55.399 order but we don't actually spell it out. And 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:59.179 so we knew that our priorities were our faith, 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.919 our family, and our friends. Then the other P 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:08.779 is plan. I think the best way to have hope for 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:10.980 any future, no matter what you've been through, 00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:15.759 is to plan. Plan that holiday, plan that coffee 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:22.090 with your girlfriend. trip plan something that's 00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:25.110 in in next week or in a fortnight or in a month 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:27.549 because then you always have something to reel 00:16:27.549 --> 00:16:31.570 in to come and it's like putting a hook into 00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:35.450 your future and then reeling it in and when you 00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:39.269 plan something you're putting hope into your 00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:42.769 future and we can plan today what we're doing 00:16:42.769 --> 00:16:46.669 next week you know it's very important to plan 00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:49.350 if we stop planning What have we got to look 00:16:49.350 --> 00:16:53.350 forward to? Even if it's business, even if it's 00:16:53.350 --> 00:16:56.889 as simple as having a walk to the park, you know, 00:16:56.990 --> 00:16:59.629 it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Even 00:16:59.629 --> 00:17:03.669 if it's swim in the sea, you plan it, you make 00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:08.789 it happen. And those plans give you something 00:17:08.789 --> 00:17:11.009 to look forward to. And I always found that the 00:17:11.009 --> 00:17:14.130 more I planned, the more I had to look forward 00:17:14.130 --> 00:17:19.369 to. And we did that together. And I think that 00:17:19.369 --> 00:17:22.430 now that it's been four years since my husband 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:27.289 passed, but I apply that to my own life now. 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:32.710 My priorities, my planning. And I think that's 00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:35.450 where we all need to be. But nobody really teaches 00:17:35.450 --> 00:17:38.250 us this stuff. You know, if we go through a trip, 00:17:38.950 --> 00:17:41.450 you know, no matter what, it could be an earthquake, 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:44.650 right? There's so many places in the world. where 00:17:44.650 --> 00:17:48.269 there are bushfires, there are volcanic spewing, 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:51.950 there are earthquakes, there's tsunamis, there's 00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:55.009 flooding, all sorts of things that are happening 00:17:55.009 --> 00:17:59.569 on this earth. But nobody really teaches us how 00:17:59.569 --> 00:18:05.529 do we overcome a traumatic event? How do we plan 00:18:05.529 --> 00:18:09.289 for overcoming? You know, is there light at the 00:18:09.289 --> 00:18:13.509 end of the tunnel? Is it just that happened therefore 00:18:13.509 --> 00:18:17.589 life stops that happened therefore i am stuck 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:22.450 no no we have a mind that has the capacity to 00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:26.369 plan again and again and again yes absolutely 00:18:26.369 --> 00:18:31.109 that's being real right that's really good that's 00:18:31.109 --> 00:18:36.890 good that mapp people mapp i love it now you 00:18:36.890 --> 00:18:40.069 said you stop trying to live a life that made 00:18:40.069 --> 00:18:44.690 sense to others Why do you think there's a need 00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:48.410 of approval for one is the biggest trap people 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:50.490 live in? Why do you think it's one of the biggest 00:18:50.490 --> 00:19:00.650 traps? Nobody gets to walk in our shoes. And 00:19:00.650 --> 00:19:05.630 nobody is responsible for my life except me. 00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:09.630 That's good. Even if there are people who are 00:19:09.630 --> 00:19:13.549 well -meaning, who think I'm going astray or 00:19:13.549 --> 00:19:18.490 think I'm on the wrong path. The end of the day, 00:19:19.130 --> 00:19:24.069 it's my choices. Life is about choices. As I 00:19:24.069 --> 00:19:27.190 said before, life is one big character development 00:19:27.190 --> 00:19:31.230 program. And at each junction, we have a choice. 00:19:31.690 --> 00:19:34.089 We have a choice to go to the left. We have a 00:19:34.089 --> 00:19:36.809 choice to go to the right. We have a choice to 00:19:36.809 --> 00:19:41.730 create another path. We have choice. As I said 00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:45.230 before, I've never been accountable to anyone 00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:49.109 else but myself. I might have sought advice from 00:19:49.109 --> 00:19:53.109 someone. Of course, we should. We should seek 00:19:53.109 --> 00:19:58.230 advice of the wise. But I've always been someone 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:03.450 who's followed my heart. And I'm a Christian, 00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:09.789 and my heart wants to resonate with my creator. 00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:14.990 and I want my heart to be in alignment with him. 00:20:15.910 --> 00:20:19.609 And when you have that mindset and that heart 00:20:19.609 --> 00:20:24.890 set, so to speak, you have a different guidance 00:20:24.890 --> 00:20:28.369 system. You know, we're all looking for true 00:20:28.369 --> 00:20:31.750 north. We're all looking for a purpose to be 00:20:31.750 --> 00:20:35.910 on the planet. And it's very important to find 00:20:35.910 --> 00:20:40.720 that purpose. Do we have breath in our bodies? 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.779 Who put it there? What's it for? Are we here 00:20:44.779 --> 00:20:47.259 to make a difference? Well, I believe we are. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:51.720 I believe that a dentist is put in place to fix 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.400 your teeth. A mechanic is put in place to fix 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:02.380 your car. Doctors are there to fix things. Through 00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:06.519 our experiences, we can help others by giving 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:10.039 them advice that we've learned. And in a way, 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.660 by having this chat with you, Edna, I'm passing 00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:16.059 on some of the things that I've learned. That's 00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:18.960 right. That's right. So much legacy is going 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.940 on right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's in the book. 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:28.079 It's in the book. And the book has a strong emphasis 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:34.220 on forgiveness. each chapter commences with a 00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:38.160 quotation about forgiveness and it could be Mahatma 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.279 Gandhi or Nelson Mandela or Mother Teresa or 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:46.640 even Jesus himself who said we must forgive seventy 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.500 times seven. Well that's very very very difficult 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.900 to comprehend but when you're placed in a position 00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:57.279 where you need to make a choice we have a choice 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.859 to forgive. or not to forgive. The choice is 00:22:00.859 --> 00:22:05.099 always ours. And it's very important. That's 00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:07.539 probably one of the most important decisions 00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:12.099 of our lives is not to hold onto a grudge, not 00:22:12.099 --> 00:22:14.839 to hold onto unforgiveness, not to hold onto 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:20.519 resentment because it contaminates us. And medically 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:23.220 it's been proven that unforgiveness, resentment, 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:29.390 they backfire and it's like, Us taking poison 00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:31.750 and hoping it fixes the other person or gets 00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:34.849 rid of them or whatever when really we're in 00:22:34.849 --> 00:22:40.230 our own cell if you like and and the capacity 00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:44.670 and the door Lock is on the inside. All we have 00:22:44.670 --> 00:22:49.049 to do is turn it and walk out You see so we don't 00:22:49.049 --> 00:22:51.730 have to condone someone else's actions. We don't 00:22:51.730 --> 00:22:56.190 have to Trust them ever again, but we need to 00:22:56.190 --> 00:23:02.859 forgive There is no anger. Anger is a very eroding 00:23:02.859 --> 00:23:07.500 emotion. And we have to learn and understand 00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:10.839 that the choice is definitely ours. Yeah, it 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.980 is. And we also have to remember to add on to 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:16.200 what you're saying, forgiving others, forgive 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.599 ourselves 70 times 7. And that's important, too, 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.240 because we do a lot for other people. But then 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.180 when it comes down to us, we forget that we have 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:29.299 to have compassion for ourselves. And that's 00:23:29.299 --> 00:23:33.279 a big emphasis that I see with all of my clients 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.880 is that they don't forgive themselves. They forgive 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.019 everybody else, but they don't forgive themselves 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:43.019 for not knowing, for not having the tools. Just 00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:45.460 simple like, yeah, I made a mistake. OK, that's 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.859 a mistake. give yourself go on don't beat yourself 00:23:47.859 --> 00:23:51.279 up about it you know because life is about learning 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.140 it's about learning yes you don't get instructions 00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:57.779 you know i i think married into that forgiving 00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:02.359 ourselves is not to do it again so yeah we really 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:05.799 have turned around from that behavior which is 00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:09.579 negative so maybe we have a tendency to gamble 00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:14.119 yes we can forgive ourselves but part of the 00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:17.690 repenting if you like is to turn around and not 00:24:17.690 --> 00:24:22.930 do it again. Right. And so it's easier to forgive 00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:26.049 yourself when you've stopped the issue. Right. 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:28.150 You've stopped the behavior. That's when you 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:30.609 stop the pattern though. That's pattern forgiving 00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:33.410 I think is separate from the pattern itself because 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:36.730 once you do it a couple of times it's a pattern 00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:39.529 now. So now. Yeah. you're not going to ask yourself 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:41.109 to forgive yourself for doing something that's 00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:43.049 a pattern, like that you're going to keep doing. 00:24:43.529 --> 00:24:45.549 I'm talking simply like, you know, just like 00:24:45.549 --> 00:24:48.089 I made a mistake, not those type of mistakes 00:24:48.089 --> 00:24:50.250 until we're like, yeah, I didn't know any better 00:24:50.250 --> 00:24:53.809 about such and such. And that's when you're talking 00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:55.089 to yourself. When you're talking to yourself, 00:24:55.089 --> 00:24:57.289 I didn't know anything about that. Or if I hurt 00:24:57.289 --> 00:25:02.009 somebody's feeling and I may think that I'm talking 00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:03.769 about something, maybe I'm saying something to 00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:06.269 them, I hurt their feelings. Well, I didn't know. 00:25:06.549 --> 00:25:07.990 I shouldn't have said that. I mean, why did I 00:25:07.990 --> 00:25:10.609 get like that? And then, you know, you kind of 00:25:10.609 --> 00:25:12.970 say, OK, I got to forgive myself for that. I 00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:15.349 know better now that that hurts that person, 00:25:15.509 --> 00:25:18.390 you know. But yeah, I get what you're saying 00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:20.690 about the gambling and things like that. Yeah, 00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:24.329 I get that. So let's move on to what you told 00:25:24.329 --> 00:25:27.849 us about people talk about finding purpose. So 00:25:27.849 --> 00:25:31.190 it's like it's a big dramatic movement. You describe 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:35.039 it differently that. purpose emerged, merged 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.220 quietly. What does that actually look like in 00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:49.240 real life? I think purpose evolves in, in it's 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:53.019 interlinked with our gifts. Okay. It's interlinked. 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:57.839 It isn't as simple as a one -liner. I think it 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.059 evolves as we grow and we discover, wow, I'm 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.400 I can help these people because of all that I've 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:10.940 learned from a string of experiences. Not necessarily 00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:14.759 a degree, you know, just because you're a psychologist 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:16.960 doesn't mean to say you can actually help someone, 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.599 especially if you don't have empathy and you 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:23.259 don't have compassion. You really haven't got 00:26:23.259 --> 00:26:29.980 to, you haven't left base, you know. So purpose 00:26:29.980 --> 00:26:34.119 is a knowing in your Noah. Now what I'm doing 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:38.859 is making a difference. And there are very few 00:26:38.859 --> 00:26:42.920 people that can do what I do. Not everyone can 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.279 do what you do. Not everyone can do what I do. 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:52.900 We are all unique individuals. And sometimes 00:26:52.900 --> 00:27:00.740 we have to realign our life so that we sense 00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:11.940 purpose. So I think that purpose will be clearly 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:20.240 announced at our funeral. They talk about someone's 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:23.980 character at the end of life service, the celebration 00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:28.160 of life service. They talk about character, not 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.630 necessarily you know all the achievements but 00:27:31.630 --> 00:27:36.809 more so how they impacted me how they made me 00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:43.109 feel how I loved um they are the things at last 00:27:43.109 --> 00:27:47.809 you know how you you made me feel like I was 00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:50.950 the only person on the planet and you were listening 00:27:50.950 --> 00:27:56.210 to me that's very important far more important 00:27:56.210 --> 00:28:01.440 than any degree or skill or award. Right, yeah. 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.759 I think all of that is linked to purpose. You 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:08.380 know, what impact did we have on somebody's life? 00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:13.180 That's beautiful. That's really, really beautiful. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.880 I like that. I like how you kind of changed that, 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:20.039 all right, and about the reflection on the funeral. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.099 I was like, oh, they did do that. No resume needed. 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:28.279 No resume. It didn't even dawn on me until you 00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.359 said it. I was like, That's right, no resume 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.440 needed. They talk about all the character and 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.900 what you bestowed upon other people. So powerful, 00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:41.380 that is. And it's really powerful. So let's go 00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:43.420 to - They say all the nice things. I wish they 00:28:43.420 --> 00:28:45.759 said all the nice things to my face before I 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:49.140 die. Hey, yes. No, come on. All the nice things. 00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:56.650 Lipsy game. Yeah. Yes, yes. You shared with us 00:28:56.650 --> 00:29:00.329 before we spoke that you said something powerful, 00:29:00.430 --> 00:29:03.309 and I wanted to bring it out. You said, real 00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:07.089 relationships are built on truth, not comfort. 00:29:08.269 --> 00:29:13.410 Can you expound on that? Could you repeat that 00:29:13.410 --> 00:29:17.329 again, please? You said something powerful. Real 00:29:17.329 --> 00:29:20.390 relationships are built on truth, not comfort. 00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:25.839 Can you explain that? Can you share that? Relationships? 00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:32.359 Yeah. Yeah. Well, relationships are really everything 00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:38.720 in this world and for eternity. Truth is something 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:45.140 that will last for eternity. So there are a lot 00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:47.160 of things that make people feel comfortable, 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.299 but many times they're just passing by. they're 00:29:51.299 --> 00:30:00.740 fleeting. So truth will always outshine anything 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:06.980 that's wrong or eventually truth will win. Temporarily 00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:13.460 sometimes truth looks like it's hidden and the 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:19.420 bad guy wins. realize that truth will always 00:30:19.420 --> 00:30:24.440 be revealed eventually yes yeah if not immediately 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.000 if not immediately that's right that's all right 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:31.160 it'll come out so could you tell us like where 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.720 can we find you where can the audience find you 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.599 and a little bit about the book yes okay so my 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:42.839 website is helen glandville .com that's my name 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:48.279 .com and in there there is a landing page forward 00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.960 slash by book forward slash the book is called 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.119 a second chance and essentially it's a description 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.160 of how we met Jeff's life before he met me my 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.720 life before I met him so it's true romance and 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:09.099 true crime it's redemption because he died at 00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:15.009 86 but the first half of his life He was a prodigal 00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:17.849 he wasted his life Whereas the second half of 00:31:17.849 --> 00:31:21.450 his life he turned it around in from from being 00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:27.470 selfish to service From being in a way a disgrace 00:31:27.470 --> 00:31:31.630 to serving others and I think that we need to 00:31:31.630 --> 00:31:36.150 understand serving others is really what it's 00:31:36.150 --> 00:31:39.619 all about and he could have as a lawyer he could 00:31:39.619 --> 00:31:41.599 have easily gone back into the world and made 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.640 money but he chose not to he chose to help people 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:50.660 who he knew needed his help because of his experience 00:31:50.660 --> 00:31:55.599 you see he was in a Brazilian prison for 15 months 00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:58.000 where they were trying to get an extradition 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.640 treaty between Australia and Brazil back in the 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:05.769 mid 70s It was an excruciating ordeal for him. 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:09.009 He was a millionaire in Sydney. He lost everything. 00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:14.869 He was a high flying lawyer, well trusted, but 00:32:14.869 --> 00:32:18.289 there was a financial credit squeeze and unfortunately 00:32:18.289 --> 00:32:21.910 he was tempted to touch his trust account and 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:27.089 that's a no no for lawyers. But he fled instead 00:32:27.089 --> 00:32:30.630 of staying and facing the music. He fled and 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.000 he went to Rio. He was there for a few months 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:38.359 without being found. But then his mistress at 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:42.359 the time flew to Rio. He met her at the airport. 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:48.140 And that's how Interpol caught up with him. So 00:32:48.140 --> 00:32:55.019 he paid heavily for what he did. There were quite 00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:58.000 a few lawyers in that decade that lost, that 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.299 were struck off the role. He was made bankrupt. 00:33:01.130 --> 00:33:04.329 he was a very very wealthy man in his own right 00:33:04.329 --> 00:33:08.089 he had inherited quite a huge amount of money 00:33:08.089 --> 00:33:13.970 from his father but he overextended himself he 00:33:13.970 --> 00:33:17.470 over invested and he couldn't keep up with the 00:33:17.470 --> 00:33:21.450 commitments so all of the headlines of the mid 00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:28.130 70s are in the book so lawyer please Sydney or 00:33:28.130 --> 00:33:31.769 returns, all of that. So he was a family lawyer 00:33:31.769 --> 00:33:34.730 and that's the interesting story. He was our 00:33:34.730 --> 00:33:37.410 family lawyer and my father had a dream to help 00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:42.710 him. We thought my dad was an idiot but he said 00:33:42.710 --> 00:33:45.970 no. He said if I had lost everything, lost my 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.650 station in life, lost my wealth, was struck off 00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:51.150 the list of lawyers, my wife divorced me while 00:33:51.150 --> 00:33:54.170 I was overseas, I'd like to think somebody somewhere 00:33:54.170 --> 00:33:58.450 would give me a second chance. So that's the 00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:02.450 name of the book. Okay, awesome. So what I take 00:34:02.450 --> 00:34:05.750 from this conversation is that people are not 00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:08.889 defined by their worst moments, their losses, 00:34:09.349 --> 00:34:12.150 or their judgments placed on them. They're defined 00:34:12.150 --> 00:34:15.349 by the choices that they make after everything 00:34:15.349 --> 00:34:18.409 falls apart. And sometimes the most powerful 00:34:18.409 --> 00:34:22.349 and transformative decisions don't just come 00:34:22.349 --> 00:34:27.289 from winning, it comes from rebuilding. If today's 00:34:27.289 --> 00:34:30.050 conversation resonated with you, share it with 00:34:30.050 --> 00:34:32.789 someone who might be quietly rebuilding their 00:34:32.789 --> 00:34:36.389 life right now. And if you're navigating a season 00:34:36.389 --> 00:34:38.389 where you're trying to figure out what comes 00:34:38.389 --> 00:34:41.510 next, remember, purpose doesn't always arrive 00:34:41.510 --> 00:34:45.110 with fireworks. Sometimes it shows up quietly 00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:48.690 when you decide to live honestly. This is Keeping 00:34:48.690 --> 00:34:51.130 It Real on Purpose, where real stories remind 00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:54.400 you that starting over is not a failure. and 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:57.639 its clarity. And now my name is Edna White and 00:34:57.639 --> 00:35:01.420 my esteemed guest Helen Granville saying goodbye 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:02.500 for now.