Most people think personal growth comes from
success. But the truth is, the deepest transformation
often happens when everything familiar is stripped
away. Your home, your relationship, your identity,
even the life you thought you were building.
I'm your host, Edna White, and this is Keeping
It Real On Purpose, where we talk about the real
moments that shape who we become. Today, I'm
joined by Helen Glanville. CEO of Second Chance
SA, whose life changed through loss, judgment,
and rebuilding from the ground up. Welcome to
the show. Thank you. Greetings from Australia.
All right. So Helen, before we get into the deeper
part of your story, give us a short picture of
who you are today and the work you do with Second
Chance SA. Well, 10 years ago, my husband and
I founded Second Chances SA. Essentially, it's
a charity for people impacted by the criminal
justice system, people who are often rejected,
unwanted, and in particular the children, the
children who are, in fact, the hidden or invisible
victims of crime, because the domino impact on
the family is huge when a parent is incarcerated.
That was our calling for most of our married
life. In fact, prior to the 10 years of Second
Chances, we were with another organisation for
20 years. It really grew as a result of my husband's
own compassion and empathy. However, I have,
yeah, he experienced imprisonment himself and
it impacted, he saw the impact on his own children.
have in fact since um founding that organization
I have retired and my husband passed four years
ago. So I am now a widow and I am talking about
my life. Um how it went through many uh opportunities
for self development and I actually have a phrase
that says that life is a character development
program. I like that. That I like. Okay, you
said loving someone with a complicated past forced
you to face your own fear of judgment. Why do
people judge those relationships so harshly and
what does that reveal about our own fears? Well,
it's like anything. It's the unknown. I had the
opportunity of getting to know husband against
all the odds against all the opposition. Um I
think that when you fall deeply in love it covers
a multitude of opposition and so um we just carried
on. We were two strong independent thinkers.
I think that that uh made a difference. I was
never really a people pleaser. I was never really
someone who went with the crowd. I had my own
thoughts and I fell in love with a man who was
trained in independent thinking. He was a lawyer.
And I think that when you have a strong mind
and you can do critical thinking and weigh up
the pros and the cons and then allow your heart
to lead you, I think that's where and how you
make life's big decisions. That's good. That's
great. Many people walk away when life gets complicated.
What made you stay and what did that decision
cost you emotionally and socially? I stayed because
of the power of love. I also have a sense of
loyalty. I knew there was a hope for our future.
I knew that together we could make a difference
and I think we should in many cases, take the
long view and not the short view. I think this
world has trained us to want to have immediate
gratification. Everything has to happen now.
I want it now. And quite frankly, one of the
drivers for crime is being impetuous. a lot of
people especially guys they don't think they
don't have extended education and they make impulsive
impetuous decisions because they're with the
wrong crowd and they suddenly decide yes I'll
drive the getaway car but they haven't thought
through the long -term implications of that decision.
So if we're impetuous with our daily decision
making we have a problem. because we haven't
probably counted the cost. Yeah. And what did
it cost you emotionally to do that? Well, we
eloped while my husband was in prison. Emotionally,
that was the best day of my life. I didn't want
my family there because they opposed us. They
were hostile. My husband was 20 years older.
He had a criminal record. He was penniless. He
had been a womanizer. So many. He ticked all
the wrong boxes. But emotionally, I was strong.
I really wanted to proceed with this relationship.
And in the long run, it was the best thing that
we did. There was a hiccup along the way where
I was weary. I think that when you're in your
early 20s You can be weary of Sure pressure and
holding on and waiting and waiting and waiting
But when he was out we got together and we made
a difference and that's what I wanted to achieve
and that's what we did achieve I think, too,
a lot of times in this world and probably other
worlds, we misconstrue the word love as like
an emotion instead of a dedication or a commitment.
And that's something that you build on all the
time. And I think that's where we get the instant
gratification. Well, if I'm with somebody who
doesn't satisfy me or doesn't tick those boxes
that everybody else says, then we get objectionable
about a lot of those things. Not knowing and
not having loyalty to and that's a great important
Attribute of yours is having that loyalty loyalty
to understand this person loyalty to you know
Go through and see the end of it You know a lot
of us when we get in we fall in love We we see
that the right now and then we don't really see
the end goal You don't see that part Well, when
you're in very unnatural conditions, such as
separation by imprisonment, you have to give
him a fair go. You have to wait for him to get
out to make a difference. But unfortunately,
a lot of guys, they're in prison. They may not
have as long a sentence as my husband did, but
invariably women do give up. And the guys inside
get that Dear John letter. And the Dear John
letter being, you know, I found someone else.
I was so committed, I didn't want to find anyone
else. But yeah, I made a commitment. But you've
got to understand too, not everyone gets married
while someone's in prison. You know, he had one
month day leave and we got all the right permissions
to have that ceremony go ahead and it was important
not to marry before he went to prison because
the media, he was such a hot topic for the media.
He didn't want me to be subjected to media scrutiny
and so by waiting three years that actually avoided,
you know, no longer was he as hot as it had been.
Okay, okay. You have shared that you lost your
home in the bushfires and then later your husband.
When life strips away everything familiar, what
happens to your identity? Well, I think in this
life, it's very important that we don't attach
our identity to things. We are living in a material
world. Yes, we had a lifestyle that was beautiful.
It was 32 years in the Adelaide Hills. It was
a lifestyle. It wasn't just a home. We had 25
acres. We raised cattle on weekends. We looked
after those cattle. We built our own home. We
raised two sons in that home. We were commuters.
It was about a 45 minute trip from our home down
to the city. for education and for work. I think,
however, as much as it pained us to lose it all,
our age and my husband's health was probably
a blessing in disguise, even though we didn't
realise it at the time. My youngest son was in
India at the time. five days before Christmas,
and he phoned me and he said, Mom, you may not
want to hear this, but I have a feeling that
this is going to be a turning point for good.
And I have to say, looking back, it was. You
can start again, as much as my husband's family
history was all destroyed. family ornaments and
things that were handed down like a French marble
clock. All those little things that we think
are important. But we started again. We had each
other. That's what was important. We weren't
damaged in the fires. We weren't there at work.
So we had an opportunity to start again and we
did. That's beautiful. Who were you when you
were in those roles like when you lost everything?
Did you think you were someone different or did
you just say, okay, I got to settle in this and
figure things out? I suppose we were people that
always looked to the future. We weren't melancholics
that liked to have naval pity parties. there
are people that study their navels and you know
get swept up by the emotion of sadness and what
if and um they're melancholic type personalities
if you will whereas we were more personalities
that said okay so what's next how can we go to
the next step what is the next step and for us
at the time uh we liked the water and my husband
said let's let's get a boat and as it happened
we got a houseboat and we were on that houseboat
for for several years from 21 to when my husband
died Yes, so and and the houseboat was more of
a floating accommodation if you will a floating
apartment And I stayed there while I was waiting
for my apartment to be finished. And it was an
interesting lifestyle. It was a great lifestyle.
It was my husband's happy place. So the oncologist
said, go to your happy place. And for him, that
was a lovely place for him. So as much as we
don't often like change, change can be good.
And I have coined a blueprint for trauma. I mean
it was traumatic to lose absolutely everything
we'd worked so hard for. But my little phraseology
is called MAWP, M standing for maintain, like
before a trauma. event, maintain the things that
brought you fun. So no matter what the traumatic
event be, whether it's a fire or a car accident
or whatever, if you were swimming every week
or if you were playing bridge every week and
you enjoyed that, maintain it. Don't just wipe
everything out of your life. Don't give up on
everything. no matter how little those little
things might be, you might have coffee with your
girlfriends once a week. Well, maintain that.
Keep it going because they are the emotional
connections that we still need in our life. The
other one is acceptance. I think some people
take a long, long time to accept a traumatic
event and it happened. You can't deny it. it
happened and one has to accept it. In the case
of a bushfire what we know is that six to eight
weeks after a bushfire fresh green shoots of
growth come through. Yes they do. Yeah it's just
perpetual, it's never -ending and the seeds in
the trees they self -propagate. we forget that
and that can happen in our lives too. We can
have fresh new green opportunities. That's beautiful.
Fresh new green things to explore. So that's
very important. And the other two letters are
P and P. The first P being for priority. Prioritise.
Prioritise well what really it forced us although
we knew theoretically that priorities in our
life in practice we we grounded ourselves and
knew that our priorities were our faith our family
and our friends and that was important the three
F's they were our priorities and and sometimes
we have those priorities not necessarily in that
order but we don't actually spell it out. And
so we knew that our priorities were our faith,
our family, and our friends. Then the other P
is plan. I think the best way to have hope for
any future, no matter what you've been through,
is to plan. Plan that holiday, plan that coffee
with your girlfriend. trip plan something that's
in in next week or in a fortnight or in a month
because then you always have something to reel
in to come and it's like putting a hook into
your future and then reeling it in and when you
plan something you're putting hope into your
future and we can plan today what we're doing
next week you know it's very important to plan
if we stop planning What have we got to look
forward to? Even if it's business, even if it's
as simple as having a walk to the park, you know,
it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Even
if it's swim in the sea, you plan it, you make
it happen. And those plans give you something
to look forward to. And I always found that the
more I planned, the more I had to look forward
to. And we did that together. And I think that
now that it's been four years since my husband
passed, but I apply that to my own life now.
My priorities, my planning. And I think that's
where we all need to be. But nobody really teaches
us this stuff. You know, if we go through a trip,
you know, no matter what, it could be an earthquake,
right? There's so many places in the world. where
there are bushfires, there are volcanic spewing,
there are earthquakes, there's tsunamis, there's
flooding, all sorts of things that are happening
on this earth. But nobody really teaches us how
do we overcome a traumatic event? How do we plan
for overcoming? You know, is there light at the
end of the tunnel? Is it just that happened therefore
life stops that happened therefore i am stuck
no no we have a mind that has the capacity to
plan again and again and again yes absolutely
that's being real right that's really good that's
good that mapp people mapp i love it now you
said you stop trying to live a life that made
sense to others Why do you think there's a need
of approval for one is the biggest trap people
live in? Why do you think it's one of the biggest
traps? Nobody gets to walk in our shoes. And
nobody is responsible for my life except me.
That's good. Even if there are people who are
well -meaning, who think I'm going astray or
think I'm on the wrong path. The end of the day,
it's my choices. Life is about choices. As I
said before, life is one big character development
program. And at each junction, we have a choice.
We have a choice to go to the left. We have a
choice to go to the right. We have a choice to
create another path. We have choice. As I said
before, I've never been accountable to anyone
else but myself. I might have sought advice from
someone. Of course, we should. We should seek
advice of the wise. But I've always been someone
who's followed my heart. And I'm a Christian,
and my heart wants to resonate with my creator.
and I want my heart to be in alignment with him.
And when you have that mindset and that heart
set, so to speak, you have a different guidance
system. You know, we're all looking for true
north. We're all looking for a purpose to be
on the planet. And it's very important to find
that purpose. Do we have breath in our bodies?
Who put it there? What's it for? Are we here
to make a difference? Well, I believe we are.
I believe that a dentist is put in place to fix
your teeth. A mechanic is put in place to fix
your car. Doctors are there to fix things. Through
our experiences, we can help others by giving
them advice that we've learned. And in a way,
by having this chat with you, Edna, I'm passing
on some of the things that I've learned. That's
right. That's right. So much legacy is going
on right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's in the book.
It's in the book. And the book has a strong emphasis
on forgiveness. each chapter commences with a
quotation about forgiveness and it could be Mahatma
Gandhi or Nelson Mandela or Mother Teresa or
even Jesus himself who said we must forgive seventy
times seven. Well that's very very very difficult
to comprehend but when you're placed in a position
where you need to make a choice we have a choice
to forgive. or not to forgive. The choice is
always ours. And it's very important. That's
probably one of the most important decisions
of our lives is not to hold onto a grudge, not
to hold onto unforgiveness, not to hold onto
resentment because it contaminates us. And medically
it's been proven that unforgiveness, resentment,
they backfire and it's like, Us taking poison
and hoping it fixes the other person or gets
rid of them or whatever when really we're in
our own cell if you like and and the capacity
and the door Lock is on the inside. All we have
to do is turn it and walk out You see so we don't
have to condone someone else's actions. We don't
have to Trust them ever again, but we need to
forgive There is no anger. Anger is a very eroding
emotion. And we have to learn and understand
that the choice is definitely ours. Yeah, it
is. And we also have to remember to add on to
what you're saying, forgiving others, forgive
ourselves 70 times 7. And that's important, too,
because we do a lot for other people. But then
when it comes down to us, we forget that we have
to have compassion for ourselves. And that's
a big emphasis that I see with all of my clients
is that they don't forgive themselves. They forgive
everybody else, but they don't forgive themselves
for not knowing, for not having the tools. Just
simple like, yeah, I made a mistake. OK, that's
a mistake. give yourself go on don't beat yourself
up about it you know because life is about learning
it's about learning yes you don't get instructions
you know i i think married into that forgiving
ourselves is not to do it again so yeah we really
have turned around from that behavior which is
negative so maybe we have a tendency to gamble
yes we can forgive ourselves but part of the
repenting if you like is to turn around and not
do it again. Right. And so it's easier to forgive
yourself when you've stopped the issue. Right.
You've stopped the behavior. That's when you
stop the pattern though. That's pattern forgiving
I think is separate from the pattern itself because
once you do it a couple of times it's a pattern
now. So now. Yeah. you're not going to ask yourself
to forgive yourself for doing something that's
a pattern, like that you're going to keep doing.
I'm talking simply like, you know, just like
I made a mistake, not those type of mistakes
until we're like, yeah, I didn't know any better
about such and such. And that's when you're talking
to yourself. When you're talking to yourself,
I didn't know anything about that. Or if I hurt
somebody's feeling and I may think that I'm talking
about something, maybe I'm saying something to
them, I hurt their feelings. Well, I didn't know.
I shouldn't have said that. I mean, why did I
get like that? And then, you know, you kind of
say, OK, I got to forgive myself for that. I
know better now that that hurts that person,
you know. But yeah, I get what you're saying
about the gambling and things like that. Yeah,
I get that. So let's move on to what you told
us about people talk about finding purpose. So
it's like it's a big dramatic movement. You describe
it differently that. purpose emerged, merged
quietly. What does that actually look like in
real life? I think purpose evolves in, in it's
interlinked with our gifts. Okay. It's interlinked.
It isn't as simple as a one -liner. I think it
evolves as we grow and we discover, wow, I'm
I can help these people because of all that I've
learned from a string of experiences. Not necessarily
a degree, you know, just because you're a psychologist
doesn't mean to say you can actually help someone,
especially if you don't have empathy and you
don't have compassion. You really haven't got
to, you haven't left base, you know. So purpose
is a knowing in your Noah. Now what I'm doing
is making a difference. And there are very few
people that can do what I do. Not everyone can
do what you do. Not everyone can do what I do.
We are all unique individuals. And sometimes
we have to realign our life so that we sense
purpose. So I think that purpose will be clearly
announced at our funeral. They talk about someone's
character at the end of life service, the celebration
of life service. They talk about character, not
necessarily you know all the achievements but
more so how they impacted me how they made me
feel how I loved um they are the things at last
you know how you you made me feel like I was
the only person on the planet and you were listening
to me that's very important far more important
than any degree or skill or award. Right, yeah.
I think all of that is linked to purpose. You
know, what impact did we have on somebody's life?
That's beautiful. That's really, really beautiful.
I like that. I like how you kind of changed that,
all right, and about the reflection on the funeral.
I was like, oh, they did do that. No resume needed.
No resume. It didn't even dawn on me until you
said it. I was like, That's right, no resume
needed. They talk about all the character and
what you bestowed upon other people. So powerful,
that is. And it's really powerful. So let's go
to - They say all the nice things. I wish they
said all the nice things to my face before I
die. Hey, yes. No, come on. All the nice things.
Lipsy game. Yeah. Yes, yes. You shared with us
before we spoke that you said something powerful,
and I wanted to bring it out. You said, real
relationships are built on truth, not comfort.
Can you expound on that? Could you repeat that
again, please? You said something powerful. Real
relationships are built on truth, not comfort.
Can you explain that? Can you share that? Relationships?
Yeah. Yeah. Well, relationships are really everything
in this world and for eternity. Truth is something
that will last for eternity. So there are a lot
of things that make people feel comfortable,
but many times they're just passing by. they're
fleeting. So truth will always outshine anything
that's wrong or eventually truth will win. Temporarily
sometimes truth looks like it's hidden and the
bad guy wins. realize that truth will always
be revealed eventually yes yeah if not immediately
if not immediately that's right that's all right
it'll come out so could you tell us like where
can we find you where can the audience find you
and a little bit about the book yes okay so my
website is helen glandville .com that's my name
.com and in there there is a landing page forward
slash by book forward slash the book is called
a second chance and essentially it's a description
of how we met Jeff's life before he met me my
life before I met him so it's true romance and
true crime it's redemption because he died at
86 but the first half of his life He was a prodigal
he wasted his life Whereas the second half of
his life he turned it around in from from being
selfish to service From being in a way a disgrace
to serving others and I think that we need to
understand serving others is really what it's
all about and he could have as a lawyer he could
have easily gone back into the world and made
money but he chose not to he chose to help people
who he knew needed his help because of his experience
you see he was in a Brazilian prison for 15 months
where they were trying to get an extradition
treaty between Australia and Brazil back in the
mid 70s It was an excruciating ordeal for him.
He was a millionaire in Sydney. He lost everything.
He was a high flying lawyer, well trusted, but
there was a financial credit squeeze and unfortunately
he was tempted to touch his trust account and
that's a no no for lawyers. But he fled instead
of staying and facing the music. He fled and
he went to Rio. He was there for a few months
without being found. But then his mistress at
the time flew to Rio. He met her at the airport.
And that's how Interpol caught up with him. So
he paid heavily for what he did. There were quite
a few lawyers in that decade that lost, that
were struck off the role. He was made bankrupt.
he was a very very wealthy man in his own right
he had inherited quite a huge amount of money
from his father but he overextended himself he
over invested and he couldn't keep up with the
commitments so all of the headlines of the mid
70s are in the book so lawyer please Sydney or
returns, all of that. So he was a family lawyer
and that's the interesting story. He was our
family lawyer and my father had a dream to help
him. We thought my dad was an idiot but he said
no. He said if I had lost everything, lost my
station in life, lost my wealth, was struck off
the list of lawyers, my wife divorced me while
I was overseas, I'd like to think somebody somewhere
would give me a second chance. So that's the
name of the book. Okay, awesome. So what I take
from this conversation is that people are not
defined by their worst moments, their losses,
or their judgments placed on them. They're defined
by the choices that they make after everything
falls apart. And sometimes the most powerful
and transformative decisions don't just come
from winning, it comes from rebuilding. If today's
conversation resonated with you, share it with
someone who might be quietly rebuilding their
life right now. And if you're navigating a season
where you're trying to figure out what comes
next, remember, purpose doesn't always arrive
with fireworks. Sometimes it shows up quietly
when you decide to live honestly. This is Keeping
It Real on Purpose, where real stories remind
you that starting over is not a failure. and
its clarity. And now my name is Edna White and
my esteemed guest Helen Granville saying goodbye
for now.