Some people spend their entire lives trying to
become successful. And then one day, they realize
success didn't answer the question they were
actually asking. Because achievement answers
how far you can go, but purpose answers why you're
going at all. Today's conversation is all about
what happens after success, when comfort is no
longer enough. I'm your host, Edna White, and
this is Keeping It Real On Purpose, honest conversations
with authors and everyday people about moments
that forced them to rebuild intentionally. So
today's guest is Dr. Abraham George, author of
Mountains to Cross, Finding Life's Purpose in
Service. After achieving global success in an
international business and finance, Dr. George
made a life -altering decision. walking away
from comfort to dedicate his life to children
born into extreme poverty through the creation
of Shanti Bhavan, a residential school transforming
generations. Dr. George, welcome to Keeping It
Real On Purpose. Oh, thank you, Etna. Thank you
for inviting me. Great. So, Dr. George, let's
get back to your success before the school, before
the mission. You had a near fatal accident at
age 18 in the Himalayas. Can you talk about that
a little bit? Sure, sure. Can I go back a little
bit before that accident so people have a context?
At 14, I joined a military academy like the West
Point in America, you know, and went through
four years of training to become an officer in
the artillery. And the first posting was to the
Himalayas. to a mountain pass called Sela Pass.
That is 14 ,000 feet above sea level, pretty
high and minus degree temperatures, snow covered
and shortage of oxygen, you know, a lot of problems.
But when you're 18, when you're 18, those things
don't... You don't think about those things,
no. Yeah, but I was... One of the first people
to be stationed there, it was soon after the
Chinese war, war with China. And India was trying
to defend itself, moved up its troops to the
mountain pass, which nobody used to go there.
And I was given the responsibility of establishing
gun positions, a platform for the guns, underground
bunkers, and so on. So I had a number of troops
with me, soldiers with me, and we were digging
and blowing up the mountain, you know? And I
used to joke that we are moving the Himalayas,
you know? That's a good one, yeah. Yeah, all
day, you know, the sound of the blast. But anyway,
at the end of 11 months, I made a mistake. That
is because the the fuse wire they supply for
burning, igniting the dynamite, and finally gets
to the gun cotton. And that wire was not in supply.
So I started cutting it shorter and shorter,
and finally it came down to three inches. five
seconds or so, you know, and I didn't want the
soldiers to use it. I said I will do it. They
didn't want me to, but I decided that I should
do it. First couple of days, it went well. I
light it, I see it, I turn around and quickly
get behind a nearby large rock, you know, and
it blasts and it flies over my head. But this
time, I don't know whether I was careless or
not. It lighted and I didn't know that it had
lighted. And suddenly I noticed that it was almost
there in that two, three seconds. I turned and
jumped, but it was a little too late. And I was
showered with piercing rocks. And they carried
me into a Jeep and took me to the field hospital,
which is several thousand feet below. That is
where that was a turning point in my life. And
I said, must be some reason why I escaped. And
I thought of the idea that I should devote my
life to service. And I thought of that as my
purpose in life. and I read a couple of books
which also had an impact on me. One was by the
Nobel laureate, what's his name? Albert Schweitzer,
he's a German doctor, traveled in a canoe all
the way to the Central Africa and established
a hospital. clinic actually turned into an hospital
later on. He was living among the tribals and
in the jungle. And he, after many years of service,
he won the Nobel Prize. And then the other is
a veteran, Russell, who wrote the book, The Philosophy
of, I mean, sorry, What is it? Western philosophy
or Western philosophy. And in that he wrote a
line, there is nothing, nothing right about a
war. It's about who is left. And I said, left,
you know, very, very nice use of those words.
And then I asked myself, why am I? training myself
to kill people. That's not something I want to
do for the rest of my life. I'm saying military
profession is not a noble profession. You have
to because somebody has to defend the country.
But I felt that was not my calling. And I decided
that I'd leave. And when I got injured, I recovered.
And a couple of years after, I got a discharge
and came to America. That's the beginning. Yeah.
Yeah. Good. Good. Yeah. That sounds so, um, I
always call it like that, that aha moment for
all of us. Like, you know how, like we're like
this egg and then all of a sudden, you know,
we're bored to death, like be just being a regular
egg. Then all of a sudden we, we get a little
crack, right? In the shell and everything is
different. Everything is different from that
moment. You know, everything is different. And
that's so amazing that you thought about service.
Now, what came to mind when you were talking,
and I talk to so many people, I think this is
almost 250 people already on my podcast, and
they always have got service. But one thing we
don't talk about is I believe in true provision.
So if you're doing something that you love and
that's your purpose to do, true provision happens.
Most don't believe that, you know, they're always
saying I'm struggling to stay alive, you know,
financially. What happened in your epiphany or
weakness in service, were you provided for? Well,
you know, I came to America, you know, they took
some time. I worked a couple of years at JP Morgan.
I went to school at a graduate studies at New
York University Graduate School of Business for
six or seven years. I got a job at JP Morgan.
And then I got some ideas about what I could
do to make good money. My goal was to make money.
Please don't think I went into service right
away. I did. Right, okay, okay. I had to make
money first. Okay, all right. So there was a
plan. There was a plan in place. Okay, okay,
gotcha. When young people come to me and ask
me, you know, tell me that they would like to
do what I'm doing. I said, no, no, no, you must
go and make money and then talk about it. Okay,
nobody's going to listen to you. And it took
me 25 years of struggle with my own company,
with my own company. And it's the field of international
finance and computer technology and application
computers. And at the end of 25 years, I thought
I'd made enough money to get going. And I can't
wait any longer. And that's when I sold my business.
I left everything behind and went to a remote
village in India, South India. That's the meaning.
Right. So you're telling me you did not hesitate,
you worked a little bit first, you know, you
did to make money and then sold your business,
which was very lucrative, a thriving global business,
right? Right. I have to make money. Otherwise,
what do I do? Right. Right. Right. Right. So
that makes sense. You're able to give back if
you have, right? You can give to service. If
you don't have anything, you can't give to service.
Right. Yeah. Yeah, if you want to do something
that you want to do if you want to work somewhere
that's you know assisting something Maybe you
know you can earn a small salary in the NGO world
the salaries are very low That's a different
path. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to join
someone already doing but in my case I had some
ideas during my graduate years graduate studies
that You know directed me to creating a non -governmental
organization, NGO, which was to deal with poverty
and social discrimination. In India, you have
discrimination based on color, race, and so on.
I mean, in America. But in India, it's based
on caste. you're born into a segment of the society
that's considered so untouchable and so on. And
this has been going on for the 1 ,500 years.
It's nothing new. And how do you get people out
of it? It has not changed. And I came to the
conclusion that the best way that you can hand
out money or feed people, but that's not going
to change. You have to empower the deprived.
You have to empower them. to succeed and then
they break out rather than waiting from the top
down to hand out something. I couldn't think
of anything better than an excellent education.
Education is the key, the path to prosperity
and breaking the disadvantage to cost by caste.
That's it. I believe the same thing. I think
education the mindset, you know, where you are,
you know, where you are educating the mindset
and your emotional wellness is so important to
move you forward. Because if you're still thinking
the same way, right, still in the same way, you're
still going to stay in the same, same way. Don't
wait for somebody to treat you nicely. Yeah,
don't wait. Nobody's going to do that. Yes, yes.
And you got to do it first to yourself, so that's
the best thing. You know, human beings, as I
see it, human beings sort of oppress other people
with whom they can. Whom they can. Unless you're
powerful enough. You have a good job. Then they
can't. They have to respect you. Right. Yes.
So You didn't hesitate, right, when you made
this, when you walked away from the security
of here and your fulfilling career to India.
And what emotional cost came with that decision?
Did you have any kind of emotional things going
on? Very junior question. I've been planning
to do this for 25 or 30 years. So this was nothing
new for me. I was waiting for the best opportunity.
So the general aspect was only that I was leaving
my wife and my two young sons behind. I'll be
gone for months at a time. And how will they
manage those type of worries. But other than
that, I was prepared. I was prepared to do what
I had. Just that I didn't know exactly what lay
ahead. because I've not been to that part of
the world. I was in a remote village. I didn't
speak their language. I was in the midst of very,
very poor people who didn't trust anyone coming,
especially from America. People talking about
how to take their body parts or kidnap their
kids and all kinds of rumors. Yes, I got it.
Yeah, and that's a feeling. That's a real concern
and a feeling that you have to process, you know?
Right, right. You know, it's not like they're
all falling for you. They don't trust you. You
have to earn the trust and it takes years. And
then if you mean what you're saying, you have
no other agenda, you want to improve their lives.
Then they ask questions, why does this guy come
all the way from America to do this? What is
going on? Yeah, right. Yeah. What is he doing
there? What is he doing back? Like, what is he
up to? Did they push him out of America? What
is the reason? Yes. All these questions, right?
All these questions. Yeah, many people want purpose
and they want, you know, they want change. But
like you said, they have to trust you. Like,
and I know in my same position in coaching, people
have to trust you. But they don't want to be
uncomfortable, you know? But that comes with
choosing a change. When you teach what you teach,
that comes with the change. Did success ever
become a distraction from meaning for you? Well,
I had during those 25 years, the last 10 years
of those 25 years, I was living in sort of luxury.
I had succeeded. I was making good money. I had
built a beautiful home and everything that, you
know, American dream, you know, American dream
was what I was chasing. And I was, I was, I was
doing well and But then came a point at the end
of those 10 years What do I do next, you know,
right making money more money was not my purpose
anymore, right I had to find satisfaction and
the satisfaction was going to come from a purposeful
And that is you you have the love of people you
serve and you do something good for them, you
see it in their eyes, you feel that you are making
a difference to their lives. Those are the kind
of things that are going to bring you joy. I
can eat only so much. I can lie on the beachside.
What else does money do? That's right. You're
so right. That's what it was. sort of prepared
mentally to embark on that. And you were ready.
You were ready. You were like, it's enough of
that. Enough of that. Right. Yeah, because we
see that so many celebrities, and mainly some
rich people, they get to a point even like, OK,
now what do I do? Instead of saying, what do
I do like you? And transition to something different.
They get out of here. They die. drugs or medication
or they kill themselves, but you transition that,
hey, I need to change. I can only make so much
money, right? Right, right. Change is sometimes
a little scary. Yeah, it is. Leave your comfort
of your home, your surroundings and go to some
strange place. You don't know what's going to
happen to you. Right, right. You don't know those
people. It can be a little nerve -racking but
you have to be brave about it and you have to
say to yourself I am going to do something for
them and they're going to realize that at some
point that you're there to serve them you're
not there for fame or glory or reward and you're
going to be with them treat them equal as equals
when they see that that you're jovial, you're
with them, have fun with them, and you understand
them, then you'll win them over. That's where
the trust happens. Yeah, that's good. Do you
believe people hide inside their careers to avoid
deeper questions about their life? I hear from
my friends who have been in Wall Street, hedge
fund managers and so on. They tell me that they
have made lots of money. They don't know what
to do now. They can keep making more money. Making
more money is their purpose. What do you do with
it? Previously it was millions, a million dollars
was good enough and then few billion. Now everybody's
talking about a billion dollars. absurd. And
what do you do with that? So they are asking
me, how did you do it? How do I go about doing
it? And then they're scared. Then they're scared.
They're very comfortable with financial instruments
and things like that, which are all computers.
They don't like to see any human beings. That
they're very comfortable. But going to a remote
place in or India or somewhere, and living with
these poor people and serving them and winning
them over, that's a different cup of tea. And
you have to have the courage. And the fact is,
anyone can do it. You just have to be honest.
You have to treat people with dignity. You have
to love them. If they're children especially,
you have to love them. then you win their hearts.
Yeah, that's good. That's good. What mindset
do you see repeatedly in successful people who
still feel empty? They are not at ease. Most
of them are worried all the time. Because they
want more success, more money, their business
deals. They're worried about the next business
deal coming through or falling apart. Invested
this money, invested that money. It goes on forever.
Every day they wake up and next strategy, financial
strategy, you know. Right. You can spend your
whole life doing that. Yes. Maybe there's some
excitement in it. But I wasn't there for a while.
I don't think it's going to get you the satisfaction
I have. I'm one of the happiest people on this
planet today. Mm -hmm. That's it. Well, I'm second.
OK, I'm second. I am second. I am second. Oh,
yeah. I love that, you know, happiness is that
is, I mean, inside of you, just being happy within
yourself. And I see that with you. Right. I have
been small children. small children from the
age of four. That's where I take the children
at the age of four and they're with me all the
way until they're 18, 14 years, 15 years they're
with me. Actually 17 years they're with me until
they have a job and I see them through. Everything
is free. They live with me for 10 months in a
year, two months they go home. So they suddenly
become my children. They themselves see me as
their dad. I differentiate between dad and father.
I'm not a biological father. Someone who has
taken on the responsibility of bringing them
up. So I call, you know, they call me dad sometimes
and that's fine. And I love being there with
them. You know, yeah, they are so affectionate.
the joy that that's a privilege yeah it's such
a privilege that's beautiful so why education
instead of charity relief yeah you can you there's
nothing wrong in uh offering medical services
for example or you care of hiv uh patients in
hiv patients or people who are mentally uh you
know happy in some way disadvantaged. All those
things are noble things to do, but I didn't have
knowledge about any of those things. Though I
started a hospital there for poor people, I started
a farm to give employment to women in the villages.
I did a number of things. I even got into cleaning
up the air, lead poisoning in India. India became
under a gasoline was introduced with following
up four years of testing and everything else
we did. We don't have time to talk about all
those things. But back to bringing up children,
I found great joy in being with the children
and guiding them and motivating them and seeing
their success. And I don't know whether you're
aware that that the graduates after 18 years,
they are working in companies like Microsoft
and ExxonMobil and others. And 20 of them are
in America. Many of them in Ivy League, like
Stanford. Stanford is not Ivy, but it's among
the top. Harvard, MIT, Dartmouth, all these places.
It's given a mission on merit. from a single
room hut, which doesn't even have a toilet or
a kitchen. From that environment, they are in
these great colleges in America. Something happened
in between, and that is what I try to do. Right,
that's beautiful. You are the in between. I like
that. What makes Shanti Biven, I'm gonna stay
on your philanthropy right now, different from
traditional philanthropy? That's a good question.
See, most schools, most schools are day schools.
In other words, you come early morning, eight
o 'clock, nine o 'clock, by three o 'clock, four
o 'clock, right? And the responsibility is back
on parents to motivate the children and do things.
The schools are mostly for education in the sense
of their intellectual development and all the
subjects they have to learn. But here, the children
are with me. I'm my responsibility. So I have
several aspects of their personality. One is,
of course, the quality of the education and how
well they do so they get admission to good colleges
and good companies. That is given. Without which,
nothing is going to happen. leadership, interpersonal
communication, and ability to socialize in any
environment, self -confidence, self -esteem.
That's another component which I have to work
on. And the third one is a little more difficult,
which there's no formula. That is, how do you
turn them into people with good values? good
human beings, as they say. I'm not talking about
humane values. I'm not talking about being a
good public speaker or something. That's in the
second aspect. Third, how do you turn someone
into a generous or a humble or an honest or caring?
Those are qualities that make a person human.
That's a little tricky business and that is only
possible if you and all the staff you have, I
have 175 staff working with me and they all have
to behave the same way. If they don't behave
correctly, they treat the children poorly, they
lie, they're arrogant, they're not humble that
the children are not going to change. So my real
challenge is not the children, it's the staff.
How do you turn them into good people themselves?
Yeah, that's good. I'm going to say the same
thing about my team. I will say the same thing
about how do you, you know, I also, I work with
children, but not all children. I work with children
and families. So I'm like, how do I turn my team
into that? Because they're coming to help me.
into what I want the people that I'm speaking
to or teaching to that. I didn't think about
that. That's a good one. They have to be loyal
to you. They have to be caring. They have to
be devoted. There's so many aspects to that human
element. Yes, that's good. How did the children
reshape your understanding of a family now? We
want the children to be connected to their family,
no matter how poor they are. And what we try
to do, we send them for two months so they know
how their families are in that hut, so they never
forget it. And they have to treat their parents
with respect, though these children are now very
sophisticated. you know read everything and you
know they're very different there is there are
two words they live in but we emphasize to them
when you go home clean up things you know broom
the floor help your mom with cooking wash clothes
do everything that you should do don't act like
a big shot and you should have inside you that
drive to transform the family and they do. Every
one of those kids got a job who's got a job.
The first thing they do is to fix up the house
or build a new house for their parents, make
sure that the family gets enough food, put them
on medical insurance, buy clothing, get their
sisters married. They have to pay a dowry in
India, you know, that system, dowry system still
exists. Girls can't get married without paying
money. What to do? So all these things become
their responsibility for the whole family. They
become the family. And so they are very connected.
And I tell them, you do all these things and
set it all right in the first three years and
then reach out to your community and then reach
out to the rest of the world. Wherever there
is a need, wherever you feel people need your
help, you help them. Hopefully, they would make
good money. If they go to Harvard and a few other
places, I'm pretty sure they'll make good money.
And they can afford to do that. If they live
a luxurious life and waste their money, I'll
be a very disappointed man. Because their beneficiaries
or other people's kindness, they got to where
they are by the help of other people. And if
they forget it, and try to just simply care for
themselves only, then it's no good. Yeah, yeah,
you're right. So let's go over to your personal
journey now with this philanthropy and how you
changed. Your mother was a very strong influence
on your mission. What values from her still guide
your decisions today? Very major part. Mine is
more of a matriarchal family. My father was really
not the dominant figure. My mother was, you know,
she studied physics. She was the second woman
in India. to get a PhD in physics, second two
months in India. And she worked for NASA, National
Bureau of Standards in Washington DC, taught
at NYU and so many things. She came at an early
age of 40 to America and alone and made it. She
was a dynamic figure. She let us be ourselves.
She let us... Go and play, make friends, do our
things. But we have to do the right thing. We
cannot do anything that is not correct. So freedom
was given to us. And my mother's role was being
a friend more than a mother. And she always encouraged
everything I did. She didn't agree with it. She
would tell me. But otherwise, whenever I was
down, she said, no, no, no. You will succeed.
Work harder. Do this or do that. So she had a
very profound impact on me. And after the very
last day, until her deathbed, in the deathbed,
I was talking to her in the middle of the night.
And after everything you've accomplished, how
do you define success now? My definition of success
is how I'm able to fulfill my mission of serving
people. How many people are impacted by me in
a correct way, not enough just feeding something
or anything like that. They have to transform
their lives, their family. They come out of poverty.
They're able to take care of their homes, their
parents, their siblings. And then they are able
to do good to other people. Ultimate is if they
are really successful, they have the heart to
reach out to other people, strangers in need,
not their own blood, strangers in need. And if
they do that, then I call myself successful.
And for that, I talk to them constantly, constantly.
Nobody is testing your blood to see your blood,
you know. That's all nonsense. Well, we hope
not. If you're married to some guy or a girl,
it is different. So why are you talking about
blood? That makes sense. That makes a whole lot
of sense. So we're at the part where it's the
rapid finish. So you're going to finish the sentence.
that I'm gonna give you and you fill in the blank,
okay? Dr. George, you're ready? Oh, boy. All
right. Purpose begins when? Purpose begins when
you decide and plan on an action to help someone
else. Good. And contribute to their well -being.
Not yours. Oh, that's good. That's good. That's
really good. People delay helping because...
Most of the people delay helping because they
want to make a little more money and money chasing
never ends. All because they're afraid to do
something they're not familiar with. And they
are quite comfortable in their comfort zone.
Yeah. That's good. Real compassion requires action.
Being empathetic, they don't do anything to the
other person. You can feel good about the fact
that you are a compassionate guy, but what has
it done for the other person unless you act on
it? That's good. That's really good. Last one.
A meaningful life includes Meaningful life includes
taking care of your family and helping those
who need your help, those who are suffering.
And believe me, there's so many people who are
suffering. I just want to give you a statistic.
Top 10 % of the world population own approximately
75 % of the world's wealth. The bottom 50 % of
the world's population own less than 3 % of the
world's wealth. Look at the disparity, others
all in between. And so that 50 % is going on
with a very hard life. And you can make it better.
So the top 10 % would give 10 % of their wealth,
10 % of their income. Keep 90 for yourself. The
border 50 will not be where they are. They will
be quite comfortable. Yes, okay. So how can the
audience either donate or read about or know
about what you do and be a part of it? Right.
You know, people like me or those who are in
the service industry, you know, I made money
and then I lost money sometime during the 19,
2007, 2009, you know, recession time, I mean,
meltdown, financial meltdown. And since then,
I've been relying on donations. The first 15
years or so, I was able to do it myself. So now
donations will make a difference. People can
find our organization, Shanti Baban. Just Google
my name, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington,
and you will find my name. So it's not very difficult.
And you can find my website. You can find them.
Yes, you could find them. That's right. My parents
planned this, you know, to give me this name.
easy way of finding me I don't want to give anybody
a website because you can find by googling my
name and I wrote a book called mountains to cross
which was published last month and it has already
become a bestseller Amazon bestseller USA today
bestseller and also readers weekly digest bestseller
so Matt Seller, and I think if you are looking
for inspiration, wanting to do some service for
others, how you can do it, what obstacles you
are likely to confront, how do you overcome them,
how do you have the inner courage, I urge you
to take a look at it. Whatever royalty that comes
to me will be going to the welfare of the children,
nothing for myself I am looking for. the readers
make small contribution, big contribution doesn't
matter as long as you reach out and give a little
bit of your heart. Okay, so last thing for the
persons listening who feels they've achieved
stability but not fulfillment, where should they
start Dr. George? They should start reasonably
early now. Small things, very small things. Maybe
once a year, supply some books or some clothing.
Just give enough money or buy the clothes or
something. Those who are at the bottom, I mean
bottom means those who don't have a lot of needs.
But then later on, you sponsor one child, one
child, and this couple of thousand dollars a
year will take care of that. then maybe 10, then
finally you have lots of money, you help build
a building or something. So it all depends where
you are in that process of being financially
successful, but it doesn't matter, small or big,
help according to your needs. That's beautiful.
Conversation stirs your audience. If it got you
excited about doing something or being part of
something bigger than yourself, don't ignore
it. That's usually the signal that your next
chapter is asking you to participate. You can
learn more about Dr. Abraham George and his mission
at DrAbrahamGeorge .com. This is keeping you
real on purpose. DRAbrahamGeorge .com. Yes, DR.
Okay, I forgot to say that. That's right. DR
Abraham. George .com, okay? I messed that up.
Okay, this is Keeping It Real On Purpose. I'm
your host, Edna White. We have real stories,
real reflection, and real direction. I'll see
you next episode. If you want this episode and
your healing, go on EdnaWhite .com. See you next
time around. Bye for now. Thank you, Edna.