WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600
If you're a podcast host, listen up, this one's

00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:04.540
for you. My name is Ali Jackson. I'm the host

00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:06.419
of Finding Mr. Height, a dating and relationship

00:00:06.419 --> 00:00:08.779
podcast that I've been doing for four years now,

00:00:08.859 --> 00:00:11.019
sharing my positive and practical approach to

00:00:11.019 --> 00:00:13.060
dating that's built on my own life experience.

00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.119
And I wanted to share another experience that

00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:17.719
I've had, my secret behind monetizing my show.

00:00:17.739 --> 00:00:19.640
It's called Red Circle. And I was just telling

00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:22.260
my colleague about how much I love their platform.

00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.579
With Red Circle, not only am I getting a seamless

00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:26.879
hosting experience, but I also love the support

00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:28.839
I receive in ad sales. It's not just typical

00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:31.140
ad sales either. It's targeted opportunities

00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:33.759
based on my show and my life. And the platform

00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:35.520
is super simple. You just set your preferences

00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:37.759
and Red Circle matches you with sponsors that

00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:40.159
align with your show. You can vet every opportunity

00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:41.880
and their platform gives you great analytics.

00:00:42.060 --> 00:00:44.119
More recently too, my Red Circle team has brought

00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:46.500
me opportunities outside of my podcast on social

00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:48.719
media to really augment the podcast partnerships,

00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.060
bring them full circle. I just can't recommend

00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:52.960
them enough. If you want to give it a try, go

00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:55.600
to redcircle .com to get your free trial. That's

00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.960
redcircle .com for a free trial. Hi, everybody.

00:01:01.020 --> 00:01:03.100
This is Matt from the School of Fiction Channel,

00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:06.859
and this is our second multi -author forum. Our

00:01:06.859 --> 00:01:10.620
topic for today is imposter syndrome for fiction

00:01:10.620 --> 00:01:14.120
writers. And with us today, we have our expert,

00:01:14.340 --> 00:01:17.340
Long Island's most ethical entrepreneur and a

00:01:17.340 --> 00:01:21.280
motivational coach, Edna J. White. And then we

00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:23.599
also have with us Jennifer Jackson Lewis, who's

00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.000
going to start us off, who has several books

00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:29.579
to her credit, several YA books to her credit.

00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:33.920
And then joining us as well is E. Waite, who

00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:37.579
has been a guest on this channel before, who

00:01:37.579 --> 00:01:39.640
has written a lot of novels and is a dialogue

00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:43.519
expert from Houston. Then we have my author bestie

00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.079
Misty Parker, currently living in Kentucky, who

00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:50.700
is a multi -genre romance author. And J .M. Chaley

00:01:50.700 --> 00:01:54.959
just released his third vampire novel about Lisa

00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:57.200
Cooper, one of the most fascinating vampire characters

00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:00.760
in quite a long time. And we are looking forward

00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:02.760
to getting into this very difficult and complex

00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:04.459
topic. So I'm going to throw it to Jennifer to

00:02:04.459 --> 00:02:07.840
get us started. Take it away. OK. Great. Thank

00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.680
you. Well, imposter syndrome is considered a

00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.939
psychological phenomenon. It is the persistent

00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.780
belief that you are a fraud and that your previous

00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:22.400
successes are just flukes or from luck and that

00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.259
others will discover you're not as talented or

00:02:25.259 --> 00:02:28.680
as accomplished as they thought. So in a nutshell,

00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.340
you will be discovered as an imposter. So it's

00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:36.300
kind of a form of paranoia and it is considered

00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.780
considered causally related to a performance

00:02:39.780 --> 00:02:43.979
anxiety like public speaking. And so those who

00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:47.960
suffer from, you know, from this syndrome, they

00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:52.139
tend to procrastinate. They can become perfectionists

00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:54.780
so they cannot finish because they're, you know,

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.360
obsessing about every detail or they get into

00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.080
avoidant behavior where they're avoiding their

00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:04.520
work or they even develop a block against it.

00:03:04.659 --> 00:03:09.120
And so this type of anxiety can become very pervasive

00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.740
and bleed into other parts of their life. their

00:03:11.740 --> 00:03:14.340
lives affecting their relationships with others

00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:18.219
and of course their work. Now as it relates to

00:03:18.219 --> 00:03:21.919
writing imposter syndrome can stem from really

00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.819
the subjective nature of an author's work because

00:03:25.819 --> 00:03:28.900
there is no objective standard against which

00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:32.699
to measure. And also many suffer something called

00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:36.569
a highlight. effect because they're viewing like

00:03:36.569 --> 00:03:40.189
other authors final polished words and then that

00:03:40.189 --> 00:03:42.949
gives them this false sense that others do not

00:03:42.949 --> 00:03:45.810
have to struggle and it just comes easy to everyone

00:03:45.810 --> 00:03:49.969
but that now I personally have not experienced

00:03:49.969 --> 00:03:52.909
this as an author perhaps because I'm just starting

00:03:52.909 --> 00:03:55.389
to put my work out and I haven't had great success

00:03:55.389 --> 00:03:59.069
so far but I have experienced this as a math

00:03:59.069 --> 00:04:01.870
professor and when I tell people I teach math

00:04:01.870 --> 00:04:04.389
they just assume I know everything there is to

00:04:04.389 --> 00:04:07.270
know about math, which is impossible. And so

00:04:07.270 --> 00:04:08.849
I'm always thinking that people are gonna be

00:04:08.849 --> 00:04:11.349
like, oh my God, you don't know that thing. And

00:04:11.349 --> 00:04:14.590
I have had people try to challenge and question

00:04:14.590 --> 00:04:17.350
me about certain things about math. So that is

00:04:17.350 --> 00:04:20.480
kind of, you know, a similar fear. But when I

00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:23.720
thought about this topic as it relates to our

00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:26.199
writing and fiction writing the first thing that

00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:28.560
came to mind I'm not sure if you all are familiar

00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:32.779
with the character Hank Moody on the show California

00:04:32.779 --> 00:04:36.139
Cation played by David Duchovny and he starts

00:04:36.139 --> 00:04:39.600
off the show living on the royalties from his

00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.220
great success and Throughout the show he can

00:04:43.220 --> 00:04:47.279
never he feels he can never match what he previously

00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:49.980
did and it just destroys his whole life. And

00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:52.220
that's like a lot of what the show is about.

00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:54.439
So when I heard about this topic, that was like

00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:56.819
the very first thing I thought about was that

00:04:56.819 --> 00:04:59.699
character and his struggle is a very good, you

00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:03.699
know, example of that in pop culture. So this

00:05:03.699 --> 00:05:07.139
evening, we are going to hear from an expert

00:05:07.139 --> 00:05:10.500
on imposter syndrome, as well as our esteemed

00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:15.000
panel. Our expert is Edna J. White. She is an

00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.170
author, a motivational speaker and life and business

00:05:19.170 --> 00:05:23.529
coach and she helps those 40 and up step into

00:05:23.529 --> 00:05:26.769
their next chapter with clarity confidence and

00:05:26.769 --> 00:05:29.370
purpose she guides them through something called

00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:32.470
the bishop stage where their life wisdom turns

00:05:32.470 --> 00:05:37.050
into impact income and inner liberation she cuts

00:05:37.050 --> 00:05:39.550
through cultural conditioning religious programming

00:05:39.550 --> 00:05:42.730
and old survival patterns so people stop shrinking

00:05:42.730 --> 00:05:46.129
and start leading their lives on purpose and

00:05:46.129 --> 00:05:49.050
so she has a lot to tell us on the subject, and

00:05:49.050 --> 00:05:51.449
so I'm going to hand it over to you, Edna, to

00:05:51.449 --> 00:05:54.709
get us started with our discussion. Oh goodness,

00:05:54.829 --> 00:05:57.389
let me just tell you, I think when you said that

00:05:57.389 --> 00:06:00.689
about, you know, your writing, I was like, oh

00:06:00.689 --> 00:06:03.370
my goodness. I know imposter syndrome hits me

00:06:03.370 --> 00:06:07.170
other ways, but writing was a trick, you know.

00:06:07.870 --> 00:06:11.029
I think there's so many things that with authors

00:06:11.029 --> 00:06:16.449
that we go through. One being that I'm not a

00:06:16.449 --> 00:06:18.850
real writer. Like, have you ever felt that? I'm

00:06:18.850 --> 00:06:20.470
not a real writer. You know, the first thing

00:06:20.470 --> 00:06:21.829
you ever wrote is like, oh, this doesn't look

00:06:21.829 --> 00:06:25.569
great. You know, you try to hide it. And that's

00:06:25.569 --> 00:06:28.649
one thing that you kind of like, you know, start

00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:32.649
to feel. And it's rough because when you first

00:06:32.649 --> 00:06:36.470
start writing, you're not doing it through as

00:06:36.470 --> 00:06:38.769
the way they want you to, like a publisher paying

00:06:38.769 --> 00:06:41.790
you, you're doing it through independently or,

00:06:41.990 --> 00:06:46.430
you know, publishing it print on demand. And

00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:48.769
that's like one of the hardest things, you know,

00:06:48.810 --> 00:06:51.290
like this is not good. It's not selling because

00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:54.829
it's not good. And, you know, I've gone through

00:06:54.829 --> 00:07:00.649
that. I think I've written about 150 ebooks and

00:07:00.649 --> 00:07:04.870
I never published them. And I was like, oh, these

00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:06.490
are not good enough. These are not good enough.

00:07:07.329 --> 00:07:09.810
And I've been through that, and just putting

00:07:09.810 --> 00:07:14.029
out the ones that I have put out, I went through

00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:17.250
the same thing. This is not real writing. But

00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:20.589
it's a lie. It's a lie. Like you said, it's subjective.

00:07:22.430 --> 00:07:25.750
And believe it or not, now that I'm trying to

00:07:25.750 --> 00:07:28.389
put out the 150, I have interns that kind of

00:07:28.389 --> 00:07:30.800
do the work. They do the work for me. And I said,

00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.459
oh, this is so good. This is so good. And I forgot

00:07:33.459 --> 00:07:37.720
about it. I wrote it. You can forget those things.

00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.040
You already forget. And I was like, oh, I wrote

00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:43.040
that? Yeah. Yeah, you wrote it. And I was like,

00:07:43.060 --> 00:07:46.279
oh, OK. But we go through those things. There's

00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.399
a lot. There's a gamut of things that we go through.

00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:52.639
Success. And you know how to see people say best

00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.639
seller. For years, I didn't want to say that

00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:58.139
about my book. My book was one of my books that

00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:03.220
called Women Right Now, a publisher paid me to

00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:06.399
write or put together, should I say curate. And

00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:08.779
it was a bestseller, and I want to tell you,

00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.019
for one week. And I didn't know if I was supposed

00:08:12.019 --> 00:08:16.680
to say bestseller forever or minimize and say

00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.980
bestseller for one week. I didn't want to be

00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:22.360
a liar, but I kind of, it was the imposter syndrome

00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.600
saying, That's not true. When you're a bestseller,

00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.759
you're a bestseller. And it was somebody in the

00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.439
book industry had told me, would you stop that?

00:08:31.699 --> 00:08:33.720
You know, it was a bestseller for two weeks.

00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.419
You know, on Amazon for the first two weeks,

00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:39.940
bestseller. And I was like, okay. You know, but

00:08:39.940 --> 00:08:43.360
it took a lot to kind of say that, you know.

00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.779
We go through those things, especially if you're

00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:50.230
writing about something personal, too. you know

00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:53.809
that that that's you know fiction and non -fiction

00:08:53.809 --> 00:08:56.490
probably get away because everybody i love vampires

00:08:56.490 --> 00:09:00.830
by the way um j .m i love it love them and i

00:09:00.830 --> 00:09:03.850
you know that's easy because that i think because

00:09:03.850 --> 00:09:06.529
it's adventurous it's but when you talk about

00:09:06.529 --> 00:09:08.990
yourself and you talk about something that's

00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:11.750
like personal or you know giving you your story

00:09:11.750 --> 00:09:13.929
and or sharing a part of your story it's like

00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:18.190
oh man They're not gonna read this. And when

00:09:18.190 --> 00:09:23.769
I put out my first book stuff, the stuff that

00:09:23.769 --> 00:09:26.710
no one told us about living as an adult after

00:09:26.710 --> 00:09:28.830
childhood sexual abuse, I didn't think anybody

00:09:28.830 --> 00:09:32.090
was gonna like it. Woke up one day and I sold

00:09:32.090 --> 00:09:38.570
10 ,000 e -books to Germany. So it can be done.

00:09:38.990 --> 00:09:40.929
You don't know, you've got to put it out there

00:09:40.929 --> 00:09:43.149
because you don't know, you know, and it showed

00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:45.210
me that every book doesn't go the same, have

00:09:45.210 --> 00:09:49.590
the same route, you know? So imposter syndrome

00:09:49.590 --> 00:09:53.509
stops us and keeps us stuck as writers from not

00:09:53.509 --> 00:09:57.190
sharing because even, I've heard even writers

00:09:57.190 --> 00:10:03.460
say a lot about You know how you first put your

00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:05.240
manuscript out, I got to give it to somebody,

00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:07.620
so you got to give it to close friends. They

00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:09.500
don't want to even do that because, oh God, they're

00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:10.919
going to probably give me some bad feedback.

00:10:11.899 --> 00:10:15.100
I know some writers that do not want to hear

00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:17.960
feedback about their book. But I was like, I

00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.159
need to hear what's wrong with it. So I would

00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.059
give it to everybody. What's wrong with it? Tell

00:10:23.059 --> 00:10:27.230
me what's wrong with it. Because the publisher

00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:29.070
is going to rip it to shreds. Let me just tell

00:10:29.070 --> 00:10:31.710
you, I've had that happen to me already. They'll

00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:33.870
rip it to shreds like, no, I wanted to say that.

00:10:34.049 --> 00:10:37.070
I really want to say that. And they have their

00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:41.450
own ideas. But imposter syndrome will stop us

00:10:41.450 --> 00:10:44.009
from doing just the simplest things. We're getting

00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:48.950
our manuscript out there. The comparison trap

00:10:48.950 --> 00:10:51.289
that you talked about in the beginning. Right?

00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:54.850
You see all the major, you know, the major players,

00:10:55.090 --> 00:10:57.649
the best sellers with the, you know, one million

00:10:57.649 --> 00:11:00.850
copies and all of that. You're like, my writing

00:11:00.850 --> 00:11:02.590
will never get up there. Never get up there.

00:11:03.009 --> 00:11:05.929
Let me just tell you, one person, and you know,

00:11:05.990 --> 00:11:08.769
like they say, Oprah has the golden touch. One

00:11:08.769 --> 00:11:12.230
person can read it and it spreads like wildfire.

00:11:12.629 --> 00:11:15.879
You know, you never know, but. imposter syndrome

00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.419
keeps us in that comparison trail that we constantly

00:11:19.419 --> 00:11:24.080
measure ourselves against another author. I'm

00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.139
glad that Matt's having this discussion because

00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:30.500
authors refuse to work with one another sometimes

00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:35.720
because of comparison, or productivity, or sales.

00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:39.019
And that's a whole nother avenue, sales. But

00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:43.340
even on platforms like this, comparison, you

00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:45.899
know, you feel funny sometimes, you know, like,

00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:48.059
I don't want to say anything to hurt the next

00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:52.179
person or, you know, maybe they're like, JM is

00:11:52.179 --> 00:11:55.139
writing nonfiction and I don't want to say anything

00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:59.580
that could hurt like him. But you know, we all

00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:02.360
have an experience and imposter syndrome kind

00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:06.279
of keeps us from having those those critical

00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.940
conversations, because everything I believe even

00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:12.789
nonfiction has a Just a little bit of fiction.

00:12:14.070 --> 00:12:21.190
Just a little bit, you know? Another thing I

00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:24.970
think, the myth of the perfect draft. Have you

00:12:24.970 --> 00:12:28.210
ever had that? It's like you're writing it. And

00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:31.250
you just keep, well, I know that when I first

00:12:31.250 --> 00:12:34.429
started writing, I never used a pencil, so I

00:12:34.429 --> 00:12:36.870
wouldn't, because I was always erasing. So I

00:12:36.870 --> 00:12:39.450
used to use a pen and I just kept going and going

00:12:39.450 --> 00:12:41.129
until, you know, until it was all written, then

00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:47.090
go back to it. But, you know, just to, it's got

00:12:47.090 --> 00:12:51.370
to be clean, kind of perfect. That manuscript

00:12:51.370 --> 00:12:54.629
can't be messy. You can't pass, I've passed plenty

00:12:54.629 --> 00:12:59.110
of messy. manuscripts to people to read, you

00:12:59.110 --> 00:13:03.110
know? Crumpled papers, maybe with some butter

00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:05.809
on it from a bagel or something. Really, seriously,

00:13:06.649 --> 00:13:09.049
it's like everything has got to be perfect. It's

00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:12.870
just a draft. It's not the final thing that goes

00:13:12.870 --> 00:13:19.370
out to the public. So we have those things, those

00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:23.080
things that we kind of... perfect copy. There's

00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.100
no, there's no perfect copy because I've even

00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:28.840
seen mistakes with great, with great writers,

00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:30.940
you know, and like, oh, that's spelled wrong

00:13:30.940 --> 00:13:33.759
there. You know, somebody missed it, but it's

00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:36.159
spelled wrong there, you know? So there's no

00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:41.679
perfect, perfect draft. I teached a great Gatsby

00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:46.419
and there's a scene at the beginning of chapter

00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:49.799
two where he says, he's talking about a billboard.

00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:53.799
with some glasses on it. And it says that the

00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:59.879
eyes, the retinas are one yard wide. And they

00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:01.919
didn't change it, even though the retinas are

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.720
inside the irises, because they thought he was

00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.559
so great that they didn't want to mess with his

00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.159
stuff. Actually, this is, you know, the top five

00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.220
authors in American history. And he made a ridiculous

00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:16.139
mistake. It's been reprinted for the last hundred

00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:22.000
years. See? That's perfect. That's a perfect

00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.600
example. Yeah. So yeah, everything is going to

00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.399
have to be that perfect. Should I keep going?

00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:38.220
Yeah. Okay. Let me see. Did I say fear and visibility?

00:14:39.470 --> 00:14:42.809
The deeper the story, the more personal the writing

00:14:42.809 --> 00:14:46.029
is. And then imposter central whispers, are you

00:14:46.029 --> 00:14:50.129
telling the story right? Is it the right way?

00:14:50.370 --> 00:14:52.870
Because I know when I was writing my story, I

00:14:52.870 --> 00:14:56.389
was like, I got to make sure that I remember

00:14:56.389 --> 00:14:58.909
it right. And if you know anything about survivors

00:14:58.909 --> 00:15:01.870
of childhood or childhood sexual abuse or any

00:15:01.870 --> 00:15:06.590
type of trauma, you remember it in bits and pieces.

00:15:07.470 --> 00:15:12.529
So I kind of, you know, think of it as someone

00:15:12.529 --> 00:15:14.389
hitting a mirror with their fist and the pieces

00:15:14.389 --> 00:15:16.929
are broken. You can see the face, but it's all

00:15:16.929 --> 00:15:20.029
distorted. So you see things different, you know,

00:15:20.029 --> 00:15:24.269
you see things in pieces, right? So it's like,

00:15:24.669 --> 00:15:28.169
is this really going to go somewhere? And I remember

00:15:28.169 --> 00:15:32.529
when I first put it, put my book out and I was

00:15:32.529 --> 00:15:37.059
on the, I think I was on, What's his name? Al

00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:40.220
Cole. And he was on either ABC or NBC, one of

00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:46.600
them two. And this girl heard it and she actually

00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.320
emailed me and said, I just bought your book.

00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.519
And I said, okay, I hope you enjoy it. If you

00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:55.320
have any questions, get back to me. And she called

00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:58.039
me back and she was in like a really, really

00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:01.539
bad situation where she was in a situation with

00:16:01.539 --> 00:16:03.580
her dad and she didn't know how to leave. or

00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:05.460
did not you know she didn't know how to even

00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:08.659
separate from it and she said your book helped

00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:12.299
me so much and when she called me back when she

00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.639
emailed me back she said I moved out with my

00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.700
aunt and she was able to move you know move away

00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:21.860
so you never know the fear of visibility I always

00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:24.500
like like whispered to my book wherever you need

00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:28.580
to go go you know and of course I have a plan

00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:32.580
for each book you know so you know um But, you

00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:35.159
know, the fear of visibility is always like our

00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.279
story. It might not be something that somebody

00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:43.100
wants, you know? Another one is research overload,

00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:48.960
I think. Research overload. I have a friend like

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.720
that. I have a friend that we were going to write

00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:55.139
this book together, right? All three of us. And

00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.759
she goes, okay, I got to get all my research

00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.820
right. I got to get my research right. And we

00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.440
have not written that book yet. Because she's

00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:06.640
still researching and life started getting in

00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:12.180
the way, right? Research, we go crazy sometimes

00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:17.440
to over search because we're afraid to be called

00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:23.119
out on something. We don't know enough. Let me

00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.240
just tell you, that's why they have like, what's

00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.519
the word when you update your book, when you

00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.880
have the first edition, you have a second edition,

00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:37.369
right? Right. So that's the thing. So, you know,

00:17:37.369 --> 00:17:39.430
we have to look at that and say, hey, that's

00:17:39.430 --> 00:17:44.210
great. If I'm limited in research on this, I

00:17:44.210 --> 00:17:46.650
can always update it later, because every book

00:17:46.650 --> 00:17:49.650
grows, really. I mean, if you have one book,

00:17:49.750 --> 00:17:54.049
you can actually expand it later on. So we forget

00:17:54.049 --> 00:17:56.569
those things, especially around nonfiction, you

00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:02.920
know, especially around nonfiction. Genre shame.

00:18:03.819 --> 00:18:05.779
You had that one? Have you ever had that one?

00:18:06.619 --> 00:18:09.579
Shame and genre? Like, you're not really a self

00:18:09.579 --> 00:18:14.779
-help writer. You're not really a fan of fiction,

00:18:14.779 --> 00:18:18.319
you know? So yeah, imposter syndrome kind of

00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.440
like fuels that literary, you know, part of you.

00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:24.740
Like, oh, I don't know if I fit in this genre

00:18:24.740 --> 00:18:28.880
or not, you know? And it tricks you, you know?

00:18:29.629 --> 00:18:31.849
When I was trying to place, especially when you're

00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:33.450
doing it independently, you're trying to place

00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:35.549
your book, you know, with Amazon, you're trying

00:18:35.549 --> 00:18:38.049
to like, is it, does it belong just this genre?

00:18:38.430 --> 00:18:40.049
Does it belong to that genre? And you're trying

00:18:40.049 --> 00:18:42.970
to place it. I say, hey, have fun with it and

00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:44.950
just place it where it needs to go and might

00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:47.950
just get somebody until you find your space,

00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:51.750
you know? But it changed you from like picking

00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:54.750
a genre. Like if you know this is going to help

00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:57.630
somebody. You know, maybe it's a little bit,

00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:00.569
maybe it's a little political, right? But it's

00:19:00.569 --> 00:19:04.490
really leaning towards helping somebody in a

00:19:04.490 --> 00:19:07.730
situation that's really personal and you're not

00:19:07.730 --> 00:19:09.829
sure where to go. So it probably will, I don't

00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:11.750
know enough about this. I don't know enough about

00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.309
that. Hey, nothing beats a failure, but a try.

00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:19.069
That's what I meant to me. So it's good to do,

00:19:19.250 --> 00:19:23.549
you know, try to do that. not be afraid because

00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:28.490
imposter syndrome will trick you, for real. Equivalent

00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:30.650
in fiction would be, no one's going to read it

00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:34.470
because I'm not writing to market. Oh yeah, that's

00:19:34.470 --> 00:19:37.410
a trick. It's a big trick. It's a big trick.

00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:43.230
Or I hear, I wrote this book for my mom. I wrote

00:19:43.230 --> 00:19:46.329
this book for my mom and I'm like, but you published

00:19:46.329 --> 00:19:48.799
it. So it's got to go bigger than that. There's

00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.980
a reason why it comes out of you is to be published

00:19:51.980 --> 00:19:55.039
and shared. Yes, maybe your mom was the light

00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.000
for it, but it's probably, you know, bigger than

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.640
that. I worked with somebody who was from Trinidad

00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.119
and he wrote this beautiful collection of poetry.

00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.480
we're working on it, and he says, oh, I just

00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.440
wrote it for my mom. I said, well, no, I think

00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.640
it's bigger than that because it's sparking something

00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:21.269
in me. And so he literally put it together. I

00:20:21.269 --> 00:20:25.170
think he set it to music and he got someone with

00:20:25.170 --> 00:20:28.549
this beautiful guitar music to it, and he won

00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:31.490
an amazing award. He keeps winning awards on

00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:34.529
this one book of poetry, which is amazing. But

00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:38.069
he didn't know what genre it was supposed to

00:20:38.069 --> 00:20:40.490
be in. He was like, I don't know, it's my mother.

00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:42.910
I was like, yeah, it's your mother, but I think

00:20:42.910 --> 00:20:45.470
it's bigger than that. When you write, when you're

00:20:45.470 --> 00:20:48.170
creative, it's bigger than that and that you

00:20:48.170 --> 00:20:51.109
know imposter syndrome comes to kind of take

00:20:51.109 --> 00:20:54.450
you away and out of that out of that place you

00:20:54.450 --> 00:20:57.569
know that it's bigger your writings are bigger

00:20:57.569 --> 00:21:00.470
than you you know that they're supposed to be

00:21:00.470 --> 00:21:03.009
in this world yes there's probably millions and

00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:05.990
gazillions i don't know how many but of books

00:21:05.990 --> 00:21:08.869
but all of them reach everyone think of it like

00:21:08.869 --> 00:21:12.490
blood going through the veins of your body you

00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:15.670
know each each one of us have a job to like a

00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:19.140
sell And that's what writing is. I think it is

00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.180
anyway, because I love writing. Right. So just

00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:26.779
fear of judgment that stops you. You know, I

00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:30.079
know someone who got 80 % through their manuscript,

00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:37.019
80 % and got afraid because they thought someone

00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:41.559
gave them a critique and they didn't like it.

00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.970
And they're like, I'm not finishing it. And they

00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:46.630
didn't finish it. And I was like, this could

00:21:46.630 --> 00:21:50.450
have been your best seller. But just being fear

00:21:50.450 --> 00:21:53.609
of being judged stops you from finishing things.

00:21:54.869 --> 00:21:59.329
And imposter syndrome does that. It'll stop you.

00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:06.109
Should I keep going? Let's throw it out to tell

00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:09.529
stories and asking some questions in any way.

00:22:09.549 --> 00:22:17.859
OK. Well, one thing I just you know mentioned

00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:19.920
when you were talking I was thinking about is

00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.059
like I have developed this strange aversion to

00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:27.740
the bookstore and the library because like I

00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:30.660
love reading but when I go and I'm like, alright,

00:22:30.819 --> 00:22:36.119
here's all my competition like Okay, you know

00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.880
and like I like to look and I like to see what's

00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.480
out there But at the same time then I'm like,

00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.440
all right, my idea is not as exciting My idea

00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.660
is not as this and then like also about genre

00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:51.539
like I write in several genres Like I do a lot

00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:54.839
of sci -fi. I have a lot of psychological thriller,

00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.380
but like I think you know I touch a lot of genres

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:00.180
So that's kind of like, you know, am I supposed

00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.339
to be doing something more or different than

00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:07.109
I? Right about or doing it and then just like

00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:08.829
your friend. I'm like, alright, maybe I should

00:23:08.829 --> 00:23:12.690
scrap all of my 80 % And just like start over

00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:15.730
with a new concept And so sometimes right I have

00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:18.210
that temptation to quit what I'm doing because

00:23:18.210 --> 00:23:22.069
I asked yeah It's not right. So I hear you on

00:23:22.069 --> 00:23:25.130
that And I'll go into the bookstore and I'll

00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:27.130
be like, I haven't kept up. I don't know who

00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:31.170
these people are. They don't know exactly what's

00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:33.430
going on. They're all writing to market. They're

00:23:33.430 --> 00:23:35.930
all, and I'm just like by myself and I'm not

00:23:35.930 --> 00:23:39.589
doing my homework. And, you know. You're never

00:23:39.589 --> 00:23:41.890
going to catch up to as many writers there are.

00:23:41.910 --> 00:23:44.430
Forget it. It just, I stopped doing it. I stopped

00:23:44.430 --> 00:23:46.789
looking. And if somebody mentions the book to

00:23:46.789 --> 00:23:48.190
me, I'll be like, oh, okay, I'll pick that up

00:23:48.190 --> 00:23:50.549
and check it out. And I'll go on Amazon and check

00:23:50.549 --> 00:23:52.970
it out. Yeah. but I'm you're never going to catch

00:23:52.970 --> 00:23:56.230
up yeah that's I feel the same way like you're

00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:58.990
supposed to be well read but then when I read

00:23:58.990 --> 00:24:01.970
other stuff I just want to go write my own like

00:24:01.970 --> 00:24:04.750
it inspires me too much so that's that's what

00:24:04.750 --> 00:24:06.430
it's supposed to do yeah that's what it's supposed

00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:10.069
to do It is, it's supposed to do that. For my

00:24:10.069 --> 00:24:13.210
podcast, I at least get about three or four books

00:24:13.210 --> 00:24:16.269
a week. And I have to read them before, you know,

00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:20.369
two weeks in before I meet my guests. So I'm

00:24:20.369 --> 00:24:24.170
always reading. And that doesn't, you know, it

00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:26.869
doesn't come to my thoughts. Oh, that's, I should

00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:29.049
be writing like that. The only thing that comes

00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:31.970
to my thoughts now is, oh, I love this font.

00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:38.029
I gotta use it. you know and that's the only

00:24:38.029 --> 00:24:40.470
thing that comes to my mind is that but all of

00:24:40.470 --> 00:24:43.549
it's good but you know you you gain more insight

00:24:43.549 --> 00:24:46.549
to different things you know um to expand even

00:24:46.549 --> 00:24:50.029
on your own your own stories your own you know

00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:53.809
you know um work i do appreciate a good font

00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:59.029
so yes yes girl yes for sure uh you were talking

00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:02.789
about um genre shame and you know i've been writing

00:25:02.789 --> 00:25:07.579
romance for many years now. And so yeah, just

00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:09.720
the number of times I've gotten, you know, poo

00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:15.240
-pooed for writing romances. I can't really count

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.359
the number of times, you know, when you go to

00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.980
different book fairs and stuff and, you know,

00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.720
you hear the little remarks and all this stuff.

00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:25.779
It's, and then it makes you like wonder if you're

00:25:25.779 --> 00:25:30.119
just not, you know, writing. good enough, your

00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.000
writing's not intelligent, your writing, it's

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.160
just whatever, but I mean, romance is the best

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.720
selling genre of all time, but. Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.839
You gotta talk to yourself differently because

00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.619
what it does, what you might not, you might be

00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:50.039
in the wrong place. Cause for me, I used to go

00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:52.180
to all these book fairs, right? You sit there

00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:55.740
and it's like, you know, Everybody's just sitting

00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:58.519
in. I would be walking around, hey, what's your

00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:00.700
book about? And I never manned my station because

00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:03.400
I'm so nosy. What's your book about? And I'm

00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.940
having these big old conversations, right? I

00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:09.299
just kind of figured, I'm not going to sell anything.

00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.839
Not that I thought that I wasn't. It was like,

00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.500
it's not the place to do it. Do you know what

00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:20.480
I mean? Some places are not. And like I said,

00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:22.720
you got to whisper to your book, where do you

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.960
need to go? And like, you know, and that's what

00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.160
I do with all my books have a different goal.

00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:29.980
It's like a business plan. Each one of them have

00:26:29.980 --> 00:26:32.220
different place to go. It's not like they all

00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:36.180
stay in one, like one genre. No, they all go

00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:40.920
different places. So, um, you know, just don't,

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.059
don't get discouraged. You might be in the wrong

00:26:43.059 --> 00:26:46.059
place. That's all. Um, you know, think, think

00:26:46.059 --> 00:26:49.019
outside the box. I'm gonna tell you, um, I did,

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:54.740
um, with one of my books, I did a, um, not a

00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:57.900
presentation, but I did a pitch, I'm sorry, to

00:26:57.900 --> 00:27:01.099
Sleepies. And I said, you know, talking to the

00:27:01.099 --> 00:27:02.960
manager, I said, hey, I like your, you know,

00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:04.759
I wasn't shopping for a bit. I was like, I wonder

00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.339
if I go in there. I talked to this guy and I

00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:09.180
get a book, you know, I wanted to do something

00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.220
out of the box, you know? And I went, and I said,

00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:15.599
hey, this is a great showroom, you know? And

00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.420
I was like, I wonder if you would, you know,

00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:21.480
partner with me and do a book signing. He was

00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.119
like. a book signing, what do you mean? I said,

00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.720
you never heard of go to bed with a good book.

00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:34.440
He was like, what? So I did a book signing and

00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.140
invited all my friends, invited everybody there.

00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:39.799
And they were like, this is the best thing ever.

00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.380
There were new people coming in. They show their

00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.720
showroom. And you just gotta think outside the

00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:50.990
box. Where would you want this book to be? I

00:27:50.990 --> 00:27:55.089
did something for the hotels. So I had one of

00:27:55.089 --> 00:27:57.569
my books that was called Move Higher in Your

00:27:57.569 --> 00:28:00.890
Purpose. And I did something with the Hilton

00:28:00.890 --> 00:28:03.349
hotels. And it was just by accident happened.

00:28:04.630 --> 00:28:07.490
And I had the book with me. And one of them said,

00:28:07.589 --> 00:28:10.250
oh, that's your book? I said, yeah, yeah. And

00:28:10.250 --> 00:28:12.569
so then the manager must have came out for something.

00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:14.690
And she goes, what are you doing? I said, oh,

00:28:14.769 --> 00:28:17.049
we have a conference in here, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:17.420 --> 00:28:21.680
How would you like to have one of these books

00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:27.460
in every room? Try me out for one month. Just

00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:32.660
give me one month. I'll give you 100 books. Just

00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:35.880
go to any hotel. I'll give you 100 books. I got

00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.440
rid of 100 books. So I could truly say that I

00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:45.930
got rid of 100 books. a reference or a recommendation

00:28:45.930 --> 00:28:48.730
from the hotel and I had a picture with them.

00:28:48.730 --> 00:28:50.769
That was the best promotion I ever could have

00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:53.710
done. And I was just with one hotel. I don't

00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:56.269
have to do like a couple. Just think outside

00:28:56.269 --> 00:28:58.410
the box for yourself. Wherever you, you know,

00:28:58.450 --> 00:29:01.529
your book has to have that goal, you know, and

00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:05.250
I look at every book as a goal. I have, I'm about

00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:08.809
to write my 32nd and I look at every book with

00:29:08.809 --> 00:29:11.029
a different goal. Every book, every book has

00:29:11.029 --> 00:29:17.190
a different goal. I like your name, by the way,

00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:21.829
Misty. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I still struggle

00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:24.410
with just like approaching people for those out

00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:27.630
of the box kind of things. So yeah. Am I good

00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:29.430
enough for that? They're going to say no. I just

00:29:29.430 --> 00:29:33.029
know they're going to say no. Oh, no, don't say

00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:37.450
that. They might just say yes. The worst thing

00:29:37.450 --> 00:29:40.069
they could do is say no, right? No, the best

00:29:40.069 --> 00:29:42.789
thing they could do is say no, because I got

00:29:42.789 --> 00:29:47.720
turned down by... I pitched Billy Graham's library.

00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:49.839
Everybody knows that library, right? Everybody

00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:51.900
knows that. They need to go to Charlotte all

00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:56.559
the time, yeah. Yes, okay. I pitched him, right?

00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:01.140
I always go for the gusto, and I get the gusto

00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:04.619
nos. But when I got the no from, it's in writing,

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:10.559
I actually laminated that no. I laminated it.

00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:14.839
Okay? From Billy Graham's library, I got a no.

00:30:15.339 --> 00:30:18.279
And you know what? That kept me going for years.

00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:21.599
This no is just another stepping stone for my

00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.059
next yes. And if I got a no from him, that, you

00:30:26.059 --> 00:30:28.880
know, okay, I'm not gonna mess with that anymore.

00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.849
He's gonna come to me now. So I laminated that

00:30:32.849 --> 00:30:35.890
and that's my motivation that, you know, your

00:30:35.890 --> 00:30:39.390
next, that no is just my stepping stone to my

00:30:39.390 --> 00:30:43.170
next yes. That's all it is. Yeah, that's good.

00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:48.410
I don't know if I was still on. No, I've done

00:30:48.410 --> 00:30:50.230
some things, Misty. I was saying, like, I was

00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:52.329
really afraid to, but I was actually surprised

00:30:52.329 --> 00:30:55.349
at, like, how receptive some people were. And

00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:58.529
I just, like, emailed random high schools. And

00:30:58.529 --> 00:31:00.990
I got this librarian of a high school to, like,

00:31:01.210 --> 00:31:03.589
invite me. And I gave away a bunch of my books,

00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:06.349
like, put my books into my readers' hands, which

00:31:06.349 --> 00:31:09.549
are teenagers. And, like, it was just very, you

00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:12.470
know, like, other high schools said no and they

00:31:12.470 --> 00:31:15.980
or didn't respond. And, like, you know, And now

00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:18.460
I'm trying to get my book into the bookstore

00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:21.440
at Michigan Tech, which is my book is about Michigan

00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:25.039
Tech. I would love for my book to be in their

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.819
bookstore as well as the Rock and Roll Hall of

00:31:27.819 --> 00:31:30.019
Fame. Cause I also, my book takes place there.

00:31:30.220 --> 00:31:33.279
So, but it's like really scary to like approach

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:38.880
these. Definitely the imposter syndrome, like

00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.380
who am I to like call the Rock and Roll Hall

00:31:41.380 --> 00:31:47.200
of Fame gift shop. I have one out here in Sifton,

00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.359
I think it is. That's easy. That's easy. You

00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:55.819
got that. You got that. I made one of my books

00:31:55.819 --> 00:32:00.460
to Jim Hillahiri. Oh, okay. She donated to the

00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.779
Brooklyn Library. That's great. That's great.

00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:12.140
At least I got to stand near her. Wow. That's

00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:16.690
pretty awesome. When I lived in China, I wrote

00:32:16.690 --> 00:32:21.190
a children's book in Mandarin and in English.

00:32:21.809 --> 00:32:27.769
And so all the pictures, I had a friend who was

00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:30.930
my roomie, and she took the professional photographs

00:32:30.930 --> 00:32:34.069
of everything around where we lived. We lived

00:32:34.069 --> 00:32:38.369
in Jinan. And so she took pictures. And so I

00:32:38.369 --> 00:32:42.109
knew somebody in my class who was an adult, and

00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:44.410
he was He was from the army. So I showed him

00:32:44.410 --> 00:32:48.049
the book and he says, Oh, I know the mayor. You

00:32:48.049 --> 00:32:49.589
know what? They called something else in China,

00:32:49.730 --> 00:32:53.750
but Oh, I know the mayor. And so that book stayed

00:32:53.750 --> 00:32:56.309
in China and it's in China right now in that

00:32:56.309 --> 00:32:58.569
particular town. Cause I wrote it wrote a book

00:32:58.569 --> 00:33:02.089
about it. So I can do it. Now was my first out.

00:33:02.150 --> 00:33:04.990
That was my first time doing something like that.

00:33:05.130 --> 00:33:08.329
My first time ever. And that was 2013. You can

00:33:08.329 --> 00:33:10.799
do that. Any, any of us can do that. you know

00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:13.859
any office can do that you just gotta you know

00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:16.519
put yourself out there and just trust that you're

00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:22.440
going the right way you know yeah i think imposter

00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:26.130
syndrome just feeds into writer's block a lot

00:33:26.130 --> 00:33:28.750
yeah we've all spent time on the writer's block

00:33:28.750 --> 00:33:32.029
um yeah yes i'm one for about five years now

00:33:32.029 --> 00:33:36.569
so that's just a break it's a break it's a break

00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:42.750
but i mean uh yeah life has gotten in the way

00:33:42.750 --> 00:33:46.670
and it tends to do that so yeah i mean i'm really

00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:51.579
lucky as far as i have a very great local community

00:33:51.579 --> 00:33:54.440
of writers that I belong to that I've gotten

00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:57.000
to know over years and we have events together

00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.740
and we kind of all circulate in the same events

00:33:59.740 --> 00:34:03.119
and stuff and that's that's cool yeah I'm really

00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.500
thankful for that and I feel very supported by

00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:08.860
them and stuff and encouraged so if I didn't

00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:10.460
have that I think I would have probably given

00:34:10.460 --> 00:34:15.059
up yeah that's a good good thing it's a really

00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:19.900
good thing when I started I um I rallied with

00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:22.780
a lot of writers, other writers that could support

00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:27.139
me. So we all became our own cheerleaders. And

00:34:27.139 --> 00:34:29.880
we, you know, we bought one another's books with

00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:32.619
us. When we went somewhere, we bought, you know,

00:34:32.619 --> 00:34:34.800
I had three other books with me that weren't

00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.739
mine. You know, they were theirs. So I kind of,

00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:39.739
you know, took the heat off. Then after that,

00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:42.539
it was easy. But having somebody to support you,

00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:45.039
man, that's powerful like that. It's powerful.

00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:51.619
It really is. It is. Have you ever, um, uh, someone

00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:53.480
ever said, Oh, this is really good. Or the cup

00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:55.739
is really nice. Did you ever feel uncomfortable

00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:58.539
when people say that to you? With a compliment?

00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:08.579
Yeah. No. No, I, that, that usually, if anything,

00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.280
it pulls me away from. feeling like if I'm doubting

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.639
myself and someone says this is good I'll be

00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.719
like oh really you don't hate it yeah Remember

00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.260
that I did an open mic like when I was first,

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:26.320
you know doing my in and that's the thing I've

00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:29.320
been trying to do is open mics and this lady

00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.960
come up and she was all crazy about my book and

00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:35.000
like I just I don't know why like I did not know

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.800
how to take a compliment and Like I didn't even

00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:41.059
tell her where to get it Like I just like still

00:35:41.059 --> 00:35:43.420
kicking myself over that conversation because

00:35:43.420 --> 00:35:46.119
she clearly wanted to know where to buy my book

00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.289
and I just I was like isn't the cover horrible

00:35:49.289 --> 00:35:51.429
like I don't know I just like put my book down

00:35:51.429 --> 00:35:54.670
for no good reason just nervousness or whatever

00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:58.150
yeah don't beat yourself up oh my goodness yeah

00:35:58.150 --> 00:36:01.070
we all have been here but we beat ourselves up

00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:04.489
but you know you're realizing it now and I guess

00:36:04.489 --> 00:36:08.610
talking about it it's not gonna be that bad now

00:36:08.610 --> 00:36:11.150
because you know we usually suffer in silence

00:36:12.509 --> 00:36:15.170
We suffer in silence, like, oh my God. But if

00:36:15.170 --> 00:36:18.050
you talk about it, it's like it kind of, OK,

00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:21.170
I should be afraid of this, you know? And there's

00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:24.610
people out there that's kind of rooting for us,

00:36:24.650 --> 00:36:28.570
you know? I had a guy at a convention I went

00:36:28.570 --> 00:36:33.469
to recently. And he, you know, I'm an indie author.

00:36:33.829 --> 00:36:35.730
I've done, you know, there's a few people around

00:36:35.730 --> 00:36:39.309
my local residents that might know, have heard

00:36:39.309 --> 00:36:42.170
of me, whatever. There's a few people out on

00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:45.769
the internet that know me. But this guy comes

00:36:45.769 --> 00:36:47.610
up, and he's all excited. He's like, oh my god,

00:36:47.789 --> 00:36:50.230
JM, you're here. And he's shaking my hand. He's

00:36:50.230 --> 00:36:53.750
like, oh my god. And I literally had no idea

00:36:53.750 --> 00:36:58.570
how to react to that, because he's like, my dad

00:36:58.570 --> 00:37:00.210
has your book. And he talks about it all the

00:37:00.210 --> 00:37:03.010
time. He's such a fan. And he's like, he wanted

00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:06.309
me to sign a bookmark and give it to him. I'm

00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:08.610
like, yeah, all right. You just want my, all

00:37:08.610 --> 00:37:12.469
right. He's like I'm gonna tell my dad that you

00:37:12.469 --> 00:37:16.110
were here and everything and I'm like Okay, yeah

00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:19.429
And then he's all excited. He shakes my hand

00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:22.489
again He leaves and I turn to the woman next

00:37:22.489 --> 00:37:23.989
to me who's at this other, you know the table

00:37:23.989 --> 00:37:27.380
next to me and I'm like I don't understand what

00:37:27.380 --> 00:37:30.000
just happened. And I didn't believe it. So I

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.000
started asking other authors. I'm like, was there

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.340
some like really enthusiastic guy? Oh my gosh,

00:37:35.420 --> 00:37:38.260
that was bad. Was I just conned? Was this part

00:37:38.260 --> 00:37:40.260
of like a thing? Is there like a hidden camera

00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:42.219
somewhere? And all the other authors were like,

00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.500
no, that didn't happen to me. And I'm like, oh,

00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:48.340
that was real. It's like, I didn't know how to

00:37:48.340 --> 00:37:53.300
process it. Yeah. That is imposter syndrome.

00:37:53.809 --> 00:37:56.429
Yeah, I guess it is because I've had people come

00:37:56.429 --> 00:37:58.349
up and say, oh, I love your book. I bought your

00:37:58.349 --> 00:38:00.449
first one. I'll buy your second one. And then

00:38:00.449 --> 00:38:03.389
they go and they buy it. And we chit chat. And

00:38:03.389 --> 00:38:06.329
I'm fine with that because I feel like I've had

00:38:06.329 --> 00:38:08.150
that happen. Like the first time it happened,

00:38:08.210 --> 00:38:10.769
I was like, oh, you know, but it's happening

00:38:10.769 --> 00:38:13.710
more. You know, the more shows I do, this guy

00:38:13.710 --> 00:38:16.469
was like, he was so psyched and I just didn't

00:38:16.469 --> 00:38:28.039
know how to handle it. I have a question for

00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.059
everyone also about imposter syndrome, but um

00:38:31.059 --> 00:38:34.099
like I was a part of this critique group of kind

00:38:34.099 --> 00:38:37.860
of a famous author and like Everyone in that

00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:40.900
group was such a better writer than me and now

00:38:40.900 --> 00:38:43.739
they're all like multiple published multiple

00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:48.099
award -winning authors I got such writer's block

00:38:48.099 --> 00:38:51.710
because I I was so intimidated. I was like five

00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:55.150
other writers. Have you all ever like felt really

00:38:55.150 --> 00:38:58.329
like, you know, compared yourself to others that

00:38:58.329 --> 00:39:00.590
you knew and, you know, lost your confidence

00:39:00.590 --> 00:39:03.829
or gotten writer's block from that? Oh, sure.

00:39:04.030 --> 00:39:08.829
Yeah, I've been writing since like 2010 and publishing.

00:39:10.250 --> 00:39:13.309
And, you know, I've seen people come up from

00:39:13.309 --> 00:39:16.789
that period and from more recent times and are

00:39:16.789 --> 00:39:22.510
there already you know multi -figure full -time

00:39:22.510 --> 00:39:24.829
authors and here I am still struggling along

00:39:24.829 --> 00:39:29.250
with my demanding day job and barely making anything

00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:32.570
on my writing so you know that's that's it's

00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:34.829
hard sometimes when you think about it like that

00:39:34.829 --> 00:39:37.619
but At the same time, I have to tell myself,

00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:40.119
you know what? I'm very proud of them because

00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:42.760
a lot of them I know and I've seen how much they've

00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.199
worked and how much they've worked for it and

00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:47.300
they deserve it very much. So I just really try

00:39:47.300 --> 00:39:50.539
to be happy for them and be encouraging and supportive

00:39:50.539 --> 00:39:54.320
of them. You know, there's always just that little

00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.599
feeling though. You're like, you know, I wish

00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.340
I could wish I could do that. Maybe I'm not good

00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:02.860
enough, you know. But would you want to hang

00:40:02.860 --> 00:40:05.000
around somebody that's not doing the numbers

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.599
or somebody who's doing the numbers? If you want

00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:11.139
to be a millionaire, would you hang around millionaires

00:40:11.139 --> 00:40:14.699
or people who aren't millionaires? That's different.

00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.699
That's how you look at it. I'd rather hang around

00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:20.460
those people because they got the gusto. I want

00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:23.699
to go where they're going. So I'm making my business

00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:25.500
to be around. I would love to be around those

00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:27.320
people. I wouldn't feel bad. My book is going

00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:29.500
to be right here because I'm following you. I'm

00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:32.780
watching you. I'm asking you. I'm picking your

00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:37.860
brain. So that's how I feel about it. That's

00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:40.539
kind of Anthony Robbins strategy in some ways,

00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.280
isn't it? See what people are doing that's successful

00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:50.670
and emulate that. Tony Robbins? Yes, Tony Robbins.

00:40:50.889 --> 00:40:57.349
Oh yeah, that guy. Isn't he the guy that like

00:40:57.349 --> 00:41:00.030
jumps into like ice water every morning or something?

00:41:00.909 --> 00:41:04.670
I do not know if he does that. I understand why

00:41:04.670 --> 00:41:10.510
he would, but I prefer a hot bath. Yeah, I don't

00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:12.210
know. I've heard that he has some weird ritual

00:41:12.210 --> 00:41:17.510
like that every morning. Really? Nope, I can

00:41:17.510 --> 00:41:22.420
skip that. As I say so often in various contexts,

00:41:24.019 --> 00:41:28.679
do the thing you want to do, right? That's right.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.840
Everybody's different. Very much so. I think

00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:36.699
one of the things that could contribute to posture

00:41:36.699 --> 00:41:41.280
syndrome too is if you have someone, especially

00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.980
if it's someone close to you, someone who matters

00:41:44.980 --> 00:41:47.880
to you, someone whose opinion matters to you,

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:51.820
and you show them your work and they dump all

00:41:51.820 --> 00:41:56.880
over it. I've had people say to me, I'm not into

00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:01.179
vampires or this wasn't my thing. But if somebody

00:42:01.179 --> 00:42:06.500
dear to me, and this has actually happened to

00:42:06.500 --> 00:42:10.079
me and it hurts, it stinks. Someone just kind

00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.400
of rips apart your work and it's almost the receiving

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.280
end. Well, in my case, it was almost the receiving

00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.880
end of what Jennifer was talking about in which

00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:24.619
this individual was trying to write a book. And

00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:27.579
then I was like, oh, that sounds like fun. I'm

00:42:27.579 --> 00:42:29.079
going to try to write a book. And then we both

00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:31.559
kind of like started researching. We were both

00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:33.559
reading Stephen King's on writing around the

00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:37.340
same time and coming up through the process of

00:42:37.340 --> 00:42:43.400
learning the craft together. And then I kind

00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.539
of got my foot out there and started making money,

00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.480
and he trashed everything that I was doing. So,

00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:58.840
you know. That's jealousy. Well, he was also,

00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:00.920
he was also trashing me on the way up too. So

00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:10.559
before I even started making it, I think it felt

00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.329
more like resentment. kind of like more, why

00:43:13.329 --> 00:43:17.230
are you here and not me? Exactly. So it was almost

00:43:17.230 --> 00:43:20.010
like he was trying to assign a posture syndrome

00:43:20.010 --> 00:43:23.510
to me by saying, you don't deserve this. You're

00:43:23.510 --> 00:43:25.789
not supposed to be here. And then I started doubting

00:43:25.789 --> 00:43:28.690
myself. I'm like, is he right? Is this, am I

00:43:28.690 --> 00:43:33.250
just a, is this a fluke? And it did a lot of

00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:37.989
damage to my - Psyche. Momentum, I think, you

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:40.570
know? And I had to kind of like take him and

00:43:40.570 --> 00:43:44.019
say, Okay. Is everyone else saying the same thing?

00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:50.119
No. Is this guy an outlier? Yes. Right. So as

00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:55.800
dear to me as this person is or was, I couldn't

00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.900
let that hold me down. And it took me a long

00:43:59.900 --> 00:44:01.900
time to get to that point. And I got to tell

00:44:01.900 --> 00:44:06.599
you years later, it's still, it's every now and

00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:12.739
then it still stings. I've had what you said

00:44:12.739 --> 00:44:14.780
about I'm sorry I've had what you said about

00:44:14.780 --> 00:44:17.260
people saying well I'm just not into what you're

00:44:17.260 --> 00:44:19.960
writing and it makes me doubt what I'm writing

00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:23.159
I was selling my book at this fair and this lady

00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:25.739
you know I said I think my books a little too

00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:27.619
old for your kids because they were like you

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:30.340
know young she said well I don't know Anyone

00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:33.119
who would want to read about a biker gang unless

00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.539
you walked away I'm like and then I was just

00:44:35.539 --> 00:44:38.139
thinking maybe no one wants to read about a biker

00:44:38.139 --> 00:44:40.239
gang and that's like in my book is like about

00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.460
a biker culture So it made me doubt what I'm

00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:47.000
writing based on what other people had to say.

00:44:47.139 --> 00:44:50.639
That's such a genre though Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:44:51.380 --> 00:44:54.500
You know, we I've read a lot of You know marketing

00:44:54.500 --> 00:44:56.599
books and stuff and books on like how to get

00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:58.519
an agent and all this and a lot of them say the

00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:02.199
same thing You know, don't try to write. And

00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:04.440
this kind of goes into the whole like genre bias

00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:08.440
that, you know, don't try to write this beautiful

00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:11.239
masterpiece that is intended for everyone to

00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:14.400
love, because you'll never get there. You know,

00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:18.179
find your people, like find the biker gang people.

00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:21.360
And that's right. And say, these are my people.

00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.659
This is my demographic. This is your book. And

00:45:23.659 --> 00:45:25.280
then when other people say, I don't like that,

00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:28.599
you go, yeah, I know. I don't care because it's

00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:31.099
not for you. It's for them. There's thousands

00:45:31.099 --> 00:45:33.119
of those people. There's thousands of I have

00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:38.699
a friend who's writing a biker romance is out

00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:42.579
there and you find your people and then like

00:45:42.579 --> 00:45:46.860
I was at a I was at a book show and I saw a bunch

00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:49.840
of young women walk by and they had like kind

00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.659
of what I would consider like new goth new goth,

00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.380
you know, not like goth from the 80s, but like

00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:58.760
goth from Today where they drive their pinks

00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:00.880
and they wear the whatever they're wearing and

00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:03.039
I thought oh I bet they like vampires because

00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:07.260
that's my people the gothic kind of you know,

00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:10.199
and So they walk by the table. I'm like you guys

00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:13.840
like vampires and then one of them One of the

00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.159
women goes I like Twilight and she just kept

00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:21.219
walking And I was like not my people because

00:46:21.219 --> 00:46:26.309
my fires, you know aren't that they don't sparkle

00:46:26.309 --> 00:46:30.130
they don't sparkle they burn in the sun making

00:46:30.130 --> 00:46:34.909
kind of ironic remarks back and forth yeah yeah

00:46:34.909 --> 00:46:40.170
that's you just need to you know you know what

00:46:40.170 --> 00:46:41.789
i think i feel like once you get to the point

00:46:41.789 --> 00:46:46.090
where you know who your people are so when you

00:46:46.090 --> 00:46:49.369
when outside of your your niche says i'm not

00:46:49.369 --> 00:46:52.800
interested you just kind of go yeah Yeah, okay.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:56.739
I didn't expect you to be. Yeah, okay. I was

00:46:56.739 --> 00:46:58.219
going to jump in and say that I've interviewed

00:46:58.219 --> 00:47:01.900
two other authors writing about bikers, so. Oh

00:47:01.900 --> 00:47:04.619
yeah, it's popular. You're not the only one.

00:47:04.780 --> 00:47:08.400
You're in good company. Listen, you got some

00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.860
celebrities who are bikers, you better attack

00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:14.760
those guys. I was thinking about, because I love,

00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:18.840
what's his name, the basketball player, and my

00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:22.519
son saw him in Florida. when he was in Miami,

00:47:24.340 --> 00:47:30.300
Rodman. And he's a biker. And my son saw him

00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:35.719
in Florida and Miami. And he was telling me about

00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.320
him. I said, yeah, he's been a biker since he's

00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.920
been playing basketball. He's been a biker. But

00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.639
he said his bike was huge. But those celebrities

00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:48.219
like that, I mean, just take a picture with I

00:47:48.219 --> 00:47:50.880
mean, just to have a picture with him, I would

00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.019
have like, I would have put that all over the

00:47:53.019 --> 00:48:01.380
place. I remember when my book came out, it was

00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:05.840
stuff, right? And so the trick I did, so I'm

00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.760
always trying to figure out how to get my book

00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.159
where it's not supposed to be, right? I'm always

00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:14.960
thinking that, right? I said, I wonder if I go

00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.860
into the library and ask my book, like, I'm not

00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:22.900
the writer, right? And will they buy it? So I

00:48:22.900 --> 00:48:25.699
go into the library and I say, do you have this

00:48:25.699 --> 00:48:29.440
book? And I'm like, I don't know. They're like,

00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:32.980
no. I said, yeah, somebody recommended it to

00:48:32.980 --> 00:48:36.039
me. And I wanted to see if you had it. Well,

00:48:36.340 --> 00:48:38.820
you're in luck. We're ordering books. And yes.

00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.579
So she got the book. That's smart. Right? So

00:48:43.579 --> 00:48:49.639
it was like two weeks later, I get a call. And

00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.440
your book's in. I said, my book's in. I had no

00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:58.380
way. So I go to the library. There was Curious

00:48:58.380 --> 00:49:00.599
George and the Ranger. I forgot the Ranger's

00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:03.699
name. They were there, the characters were there.

00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:07.079
The man in the yellow hat? Yeah, they were there.

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:13.119
I thought he had a name. Maybe they gave him

00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.760
a name later, I don't know. I thought he did,

00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:18.000
but they were there, like the characters was

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:20.300
there. So I was like, oh, this is great. So I

00:49:20.300 --> 00:49:22.199
get the book, take a picture of it, you know,

00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:25.400
some music, but then I said, hey, Let's use these

00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:28.059
guys, right? So I'm taking a picture with them.

00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:30.360
So I put it on Facebook. Yeah, I got my book

00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:33.159
came in today, a library. Your book's at the

00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:36.219
library? Well, guess what everybody went to do?

00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:39.639
They went to their library and asked, and they

00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:43.539
got the book at the library. Quick tip. Quick

00:49:43.539 --> 00:49:46.340
tip to get your book at the library. I called

00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:50.280
all my cousins in every state, hey, go down to

00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:53.699
the library and ask for this book. You know,

00:49:53.699 --> 00:49:55.480
that's a great idea, you know, you don't even

00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:57.960
need to go what I'm thinking of calling every

00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:00.460
library in the country now and asking for my

00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:06.800
book because like this time I think it's this

00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:09.039
time of year that they start getting their catalog

00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:11.780
ready for next year. So this time of year is

00:50:11.780 --> 00:50:17.039
a great time He has a name in the movies and

00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:22.219
TV, what is it Ted Shackle? What is it? Oh, okay.

00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:25.500
Not in the books, only in the... Okay, okay.

00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:30.059
Yeah, they did say in the children's book is

00:50:30.059 --> 00:50:31.980
always the man with the yellow hat. No, this

00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:34.860
is a practical tip that we're gonna need to make

00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:40.019
into a TikTok, I think. Yeah. Put that one on

00:50:40.019 --> 00:50:44.119
your TikTok right away and... Okay. And then

00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:46.300
everyone's gonna... doing it and then the librarians

00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:48.699
aren't even going to answer the phone anymore.

00:50:49.139 --> 00:50:53.880
No, they have to. They have to. They have to

00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:57.000
listen to the patrons. The patrons are important.

00:50:57.179 --> 00:51:00.239
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So you get it in the

00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:02.579
library, you get it at one and every library

00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:05.780
will have it. So it's that easy. I thought it

00:51:05.780 --> 00:51:07.880
was hard because when it first started, remember

00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:09.719
how that you had to get on this list and you

00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:12.449
had to pay to get on this list with the whatever,

00:51:13.030 --> 00:51:15.769
National Library Association or whatever it was.

00:51:16.070 --> 00:51:18.030
Yeah, no. It was that easy. That's why Houston

00:51:18.030 --> 00:51:22.570
was acting. Every time I brought a book to the

00:51:22.570 --> 00:51:24.769
library to try to get in, they was giving me

00:51:24.769 --> 00:51:27.429
such a hard time. You had to do this and do this

00:51:27.429 --> 00:51:30.929
and this and this. Me too. No, no. I'm telling

00:51:30.929 --> 00:51:33.269
you to ask for it. Ask them to purchase it. Oh

00:51:33.269 --> 00:51:36.010
yeah, I know. I'm just saying, they're still

00:51:36.010 --> 00:51:41.530
making you go through a hard time. You know me

00:51:41.530 --> 00:51:43.829
too. I had the same experience with the library.

00:51:43.829 --> 00:51:47.090
There was like 20 steps I'm like, I don't want

00:51:47.090 --> 00:51:54.920
to do those 20 steps. So I like Edna's idea Ask

00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:57.880
about, you know, and just have like, have people

00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:01.139
come in and ask about it. And they may not have

00:52:01.139 --> 00:52:03.260
it. Okay. We're going to order. Cause if four

00:52:03.260 --> 00:52:05.119
or five people come in and answer about that

00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.300
book, yeah, they're going to get it because that

00:52:08.300 --> 00:52:10.579
means the patrons are like, okay, who is this

00:52:10.579 --> 00:52:13.139
person? You know, they're going to do it. And

00:52:13.139 --> 00:52:16.380
then that kind of makes a way, such way to you

00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:21.699
being paid to be speaker at the library. Yeah,

00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.460
yeah, maybe I need to learn how to do voices

00:52:24.460 --> 00:52:34.199
so I can protect them I we can like generate

00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:51.610
some And you have dear life, Lisa Cooper. Okay,

00:52:51.610 --> 00:52:56.989
Matt, you are hired. You can call for me. She

00:52:56.989 --> 00:53:03.449
can be Swedish. We can all just take turns and

00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:07.409
like cycle through. Yeah, there you go. Everyone

00:53:07.409 --> 00:53:10.489
that I've interviewed. Okay, now you owe me a

00:53:10.489 --> 00:53:13.679
phone call. That's right. Call the library. Where

00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:16.199
are you from? Oh, can you call the library? I'll

00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.659
do the return over here. You know, that's simple.

00:53:18.679 --> 00:53:24.000
It's easy. Yeah. But I think also bookstores,

00:53:24.099 --> 00:53:27.039
you know, like when I was in Colorado Springs,

00:53:27.099 --> 00:53:29.360
that's where I just moved from, but like a couple

00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:31.960
local bookstores were happy to carry my book

00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:36.000
on consignment. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it was

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.219
much easier than I thought to get my book into

00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:41.050
some of the local bookstores. Yeah, but that

00:53:41.050 --> 00:53:43.989
would be great to do for others. I've had some

00:53:43.989 --> 00:53:49.130
that were great and some that were just not having

00:53:49.130 --> 00:53:51.809
it. Yeah, because I'm an indie author and they

00:53:51.809 --> 00:53:58.849
wouldn't carry it. I know Barnes and Nobles has

00:53:58.849 --> 00:54:03.929
now an indie list. Anybody works with Barnes

00:54:03.929 --> 00:54:09.349
and Nobles? I've had bad luck with that. I do

00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:12.110
a lot of things with them. Like I formed a relationship

00:54:12.110 --> 00:54:15.030
with the general manager. So like I go in there

00:54:15.030 --> 00:54:17.289
and I was like, okay, I'm gonna have this. Okay,

00:54:17.309 --> 00:54:21.130
let's do it. So I used to get like five or six

00:54:21.130 --> 00:54:23.610
other authors in there and we just like have

00:54:23.610 --> 00:54:26.070
it like this jamboree and sell our books. So

00:54:26.070 --> 00:54:30.929
a lot of us are indies. And so they have an indies

00:54:30.929 --> 00:54:36.010
list. They just ask for ISBN. Nice. So, you know,

00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:38.789
Barnes and Nobles is, you know, especially if

00:54:38.789 --> 00:54:41.489
you can bring them foot traffic, they'll love

00:54:41.489 --> 00:54:44.650
you. You know, I mean, their vampire book would

00:54:44.650 --> 00:54:47.889
have been good on Halloween, you know, like a

00:54:47.889 --> 00:54:50.070
theme of the vampire books. You would have been

00:54:50.070 --> 00:54:54.050
making money left to right. Oh, yeah. You know,

00:54:54.090 --> 00:54:55.949
I've gone to four Barnes and Nobles in my area.

00:54:55.989 --> 00:54:58.750
They all ghosted me. They never got back to me

00:54:58.750 --> 00:55:03.400
at all. So I don't, but I've heard of Barnes

00:55:03.400 --> 00:55:05.420
and Noble doing things for other indie authors.

00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:08.239
So I just, I guess, I guess up where I live is

00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:11.539
just bad. I got some lousy luck or, you know,

00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:13.539
they're just not interested. It's the managers.

00:55:15.860 --> 00:55:17.960
So far, now you're going to have everyone you

00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.440
know go in there and ask for your book. And then

00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:26.719
they're going to be begging for it. Look at my

00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:29.019
interview with Dan Kleffstad because he talks

00:55:29.019 --> 00:55:33.139
about some ways to make connections with independent

00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:35.019
bookstores around the country. There's a website,

00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:38.860
I'm trying to read this handwritten note here

00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:42.059
and track it down and unfortunately I wrote it

00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:44.280
so sloppy that I'm gonna have to go and rewatch

00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.699
the interview myself to get it. But there is

00:55:46.699 --> 00:55:50.139
a way to, you can start networking like that,

00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:52.699
just approach all of these independent bookstores.

00:55:53.380 --> 00:55:56.239
Yeah, I'm in five independent bookstores right

00:55:56.239 --> 00:56:00.460
now, and I've gotten several rejections, where

00:56:00.460 --> 00:56:03.139
people are just like, no, I don't have enough

00:56:03.139 --> 00:56:05.340
shelf space, or I don't care that you're an indie

00:56:05.340 --> 00:56:08.059
author, that sort of thing. I've had libraries

00:56:08.059 --> 00:56:10.760
tell me no. I've had libraries say yes. I've

00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:14.579
had libraries buy my books. It's a mixed bag.

00:56:14.980 --> 00:56:16.599
So I think you have to prepare. It just depends

00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:20.739
on who's over the section. That's right. Exactly.

00:56:21.050 --> 00:56:25.789
I had a librarian take my books and since they

00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:27.590
come back and check, when I went back and check,

00:56:27.730 --> 00:56:32.389
she had thrown them away. I was like, Oh my God.

00:56:32.889 --> 00:56:37.210
Oh no. Throw your book away. Geez. Yeah, it kind

00:56:37.210 --> 00:56:40.449
of took me off for a while and I was like, she

00:56:40.449 --> 00:56:42.389
just threw them away. Well, they can, if they

00:56:42.389 --> 00:56:44.289
pay for it, they can do, they can throw it away.

00:56:44.469 --> 00:56:46.190
But if they pay for it and I'm giving it to them,

00:56:46.289 --> 00:56:49.800
no, no. Nope, she didn't. she didn't pay for

00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:51.820
them, and she just looked at them, wouldn't have

00:56:51.820 --> 00:56:55.039
the ISBN number and all this. Wow. And then I

00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:01.099
went back to check in. That's terrible. Another

00:57:01.099 --> 00:57:03.760
thing to look at also, it depends on what you

00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:07.340
write, but it's high school libraries. You seem

00:57:07.340 --> 00:57:10.880
to be like, I got a really good response. I like

00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:13.119
emailed like five different high schools and

00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:14.980
four got back to me and said, yeah, bring us

00:57:14.980 --> 00:57:18.050
your book. So that was a good, I mean, I write

00:57:18.050 --> 00:57:20.809
young adult, but still, even if you don't. Yeah,

00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:23.429
it's really good. I only have one young adult

00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:26.949
book. I don't know why I wrote that book, but.

00:57:27.070 --> 00:57:29.010
I can't do it because I'm a first school teacher.

00:57:30.349 --> 00:57:33.190
Yeah. I did have one of my books in my high school

00:57:33.190 --> 00:57:36.730
library for a while, and then I was accused of

00:57:36.730 --> 00:57:45.090
conflict of interest, and it went away. That's

00:57:45.090 --> 00:57:47.550
too bad. I could try the high school in your

00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:52.469
town. It'd probably be different, yeah. And you

00:57:52.469 --> 00:57:54.650
were in the school, in that school, right, though,

00:57:54.769 --> 00:58:00.570
Matt? Yeah, I was in the school, and the New

00:58:00.570 --> 00:58:03.150
York City is particularly very uptight about

00:58:03.150 --> 00:58:05.869
that. I'm not even supposed to admit that I have

00:58:05.869 --> 00:58:08.110
books in my class, because I can't tell my students.

00:58:08.210 --> 00:58:09.630
So if they say, hey, I heard you're an author,

00:58:09.670 --> 00:58:11.750
I'm like, no, that's another guy who looks just

00:58:11.750 --> 00:58:17.880
like me. That's surprising since you teach English

00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:22.639
that they wouldn't show how successful you are

00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:26.199
in applying your knowledge. No they don't. That

00:58:26.199 --> 00:58:30.320
doesn't make sense. If I did something great

00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:32.739
with math I would think I would be able to mention

00:58:32.739 --> 00:58:35.579
it in a math classroom. Yeah they don't want

00:58:35.579 --> 00:58:41.260
you to make money off of the children. That's

00:58:41.260 --> 00:58:45.519
the priority is that we can't have a side hustle,

00:58:45.739 --> 00:58:50.920
our side hustles interfere with the teaching.

00:58:51.539 --> 00:59:01.599
That would toss my history book. There's so many

00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:05.099
different things that have given me imposter

00:59:05.099 --> 00:59:09.780
syndrome, just trying to I wrote this book called

00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:12.559
The Perfect Solution and it's about childcare

00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:18.659
and a child that was pretty much stalked and

00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:20.139
the teacher made a mistake giving the weight,

00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:24.420
but it's about the issues in daycare and negligence

00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:29.840
and all that. And this director even hired me

00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:32.099
to work in her daycare because I was a daycare

00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:35.179
worker at the time. And it took a lot of the

00:59:35.179 --> 00:59:40.449
points and solutions out of my book and implementing

00:59:40.449 --> 00:59:44.269
her system. And when I got ready to, she even

00:59:44.269 --> 00:59:46.929
gave me a good book review. And when I got ready

00:59:46.929 --> 00:59:49.809
to start a little home daycare, cause I got tired

00:59:49.809 --> 00:59:52.429
of working with somebody else, she wanted her

00:59:52.429 --> 00:59:59.690
review taken off my book. Wow. I was like, she

00:59:59.690 --> 01:00:02.750
said, I want you to take down my review. But

01:00:02.750 --> 01:00:04.690
you know, I didn't take down her review because

01:00:04.690 --> 01:00:06.750
girl, you gave that to me. It was a good book.

01:00:07.449 --> 01:00:12.769
My stepfather. Right. Did you get paid for like

01:00:12.769 --> 01:00:16.769
her using some of that in the taking some of

01:00:16.769 --> 01:00:20.230
that out and using it? No, no. She just used.

01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:25.820
No. And then I went around with different daycares

01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:29.119
and we even did workshops and they hint just

01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:32.159
to secure your daycares because working in daycare,

01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:35.880
there's so much negligence can go around. Right,

01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:41.800
sure. Well, that's a really good subject. I mean,

01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:45.400
I would say it's like, you know, primo. I would

01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:49.010
definitely... I don't push that like on, you

01:00:49.010 --> 01:00:52.369
know, get me created an online course for that.

01:00:52.849 --> 01:00:56.630
I pushed that. I had to really do everything.

01:00:57.110 --> 01:00:59.969
And I'm like, but then that was in my little

01:00:59.969 --> 01:01:02.110
hometown. Now I moved to Houston and Houston

01:01:02.110 --> 01:01:06.750
is kind of scared. You know, I want to say this,

01:01:06.929 --> 01:01:10.150
that imposter syndrome hits marginalized authors

01:01:10.150 --> 01:01:16.170
like black authors, women, LGBTQ harder. a lot

01:01:16.170 --> 01:01:20.570
and underrepresented groups because our message

01:01:20.570 --> 01:01:23.409
sometimes is not universal because they don't

01:01:23.409 --> 01:01:28.889
see it from our view. And so that's what the

01:01:28.889 --> 01:01:31.940
process syndrome can get us like that. Well,

01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:34.000
that's why I was thinking when misty said about

01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:36.780
being a romance author that it's you know more

01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:40.360
connected with women And so like i've heard like

01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:42.900
if I remember this author came into my english

01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:45.460
classroom And she said when she named her she

01:01:45.460 --> 01:01:49.079
changed her name from christine to chris Her

01:01:49.079 --> 01:01:51.500
sales went way up because people assumed she

01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:55.619
was a man So I think that misty like as a romance

01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:59.389
writer, you know people say romance women doesn't

01:01:59.389 --> 01:02:02.570
count doesn't matter and i feel like that is

01:02:02.570 --> 01:02:06.130
do you think that's true i think that's part

01:02:06.130 --> 01:02:08.630
of it yeah and they don't consider it to be a

01:02:08.630 --> 01:02:12.130
serious genre you know right it's those kissing

01:02:12.130 --> 01:02:16.530
books you know right right right and then if

01:02:16.530 --> 01:02:20.150
you don't write spicy which is the trend now

01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.699
That's what I say about my little robotic, not

01:02:24.699 --> 01:02:31.719
spicy, erotic. Yeah. Spicy romance. I don't know.

01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:34.800
But no, romance is hard. I put some romance in

01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:36.739
my book, and that's the first time I ever did.

01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:40.079
And it was challenging. I mean, you know what

01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:42.639
to say, what not to say, like, especially for

01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:45.539
writing for a teen audience. I don't know if

01:02:45.539 --> 01:02:47.920
you write for all different age levels, but I

01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:52.139
found it very challenging. Yeah. All right. Adults,

01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.360
I mean I've wrote in different various different

01:02:54.360 --> 01:03:01.199
heat levels. But yeah, that's Yeah, I like that

01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:07.119
spicy Yeah, yeah now do you in your vampire books

01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:11.139
are they romance also or no a Little bit. There's

01:03:11.139 --> 01:03:18.420
no spice Yeah Yeah, it's um, I think the book

01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:22.369
to in book one she kind of is Maybe interested

01:03:22.369 --> 01:03:26.090
in this guy and I kind of it's a very slow burn

01:03:26.090 --> 01:03:28.750
interest because it's not a romance It's not

01:03:28.750 --> 01:03:31.409
as part of the genre, but the second book they

01:03:31.409 --> 01:03:42.869
smooch so But that's all you get If something

01:03:42.869 --> 01:03:45.230
happens in in book three, it'll be a fade to

01:03:45.230 --> 01:03:47.969
black because it's it's not something I've written

01:03:47.969 --> 01:03:51.829
previously so I don't want to like throw a a

01:03:51.829 --> 01:03:55.389
genre of monkey wrench into this urban fantasy

01:03:55.389 --> 01:03:57.829
that's been no romance the whole time. And then

01:03:57.829 --> 01:04:02.809
suddenly it's like, like, has anyone seen the

01:04:02.809 --> 01:04:08.510
Matrix movies, Keanu Reeves? Right. Oh, yeah.

01:04:08.670 --> 01:04:11.730
The second movie, I think, opens up when they're

01:04:11.730 --> 01:04:15.829
in Zion, this underground city. And there's this

01:04:15.829 --> 01:04:20.230
like. of steamy scene with him and trinity and

01:04:20.230 --> 01:04:23.789
i remember thinking is that what this kind of

01:04:23.789 --> 01:04:25.969
movie is but like it was it was almost jarring

01:04:25.969 --> 01:04:27.829
like i didn't mind the spice of it but it was

01:04:27.829 --> 01:04:30.150
at the same time i'm like this was a sci -fi

01:04:30.150 --> 01:04:31.989
kind of action adventure and now they're throwing

01:04:31.989 --> 01:04:35.630
it in a sex scene it just felt out of place and

01:04:35.630 --> 01:04:38.289
i'm there to see that that's not what you know

01:04:38.289 --> 01:04:41.329
not that i you know felt like kind of self -indulgent

01:04:41.329 --> 01:04:46.400
yeah yeah it felt like it didn't belong And then

01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:50.159
we never saw anything like that again. Like it

01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:52.420
didn't get steam. It was no steamy stuff in the

01:04:52.420 --> 01:04:54.119
third one and there's no steamy stuff later in

01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:56.800
the second one. It was just this one off scene

01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:00.840
that just didn't feel like it belonged. Well,

01:05:00.940 --> 01:05:04.360
a question for you all. Do you write to what

01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:07.440
you think your readers want, even if it's something

01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:10.519
you don't particularly want to include or write

01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:13.760
about, because you think it will do better or

01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:17.719
resonate more with who your target audience is?

01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:23.300
No, I don't write. No, I write the same. A reader

01:05:23.300 --> 01:05:27.719
will come for it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was writing

01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:31.420
romance which Misty taught me how to do forever

01:05:31.420 --> 01:05:36.079
grateful for that You were writing in a genre

01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:38.880
which had a certain spice level so she had to

01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:44.780
coach me through writing spice. Yeah I put out

01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:47.480
two books on my own one of them long and the

01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:50.079
other one very short and I managed to put the

01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:52.760
spice in by myself, but it is very unnatural

01:05:52.760 --> 01:06:01.050
to me Yeah, I'd say for the most part, I just

01:06:01.050 --> 01:06:03.969
at this point, in order to break through the

01:06:03.969 --> 01:06:06.170
writer's block in the extended period of imposter

01:06:06.170 --> 01:06:08.289
syndrome that I went through, starting from COVID

01:06:08.289 --> 01:06:11.610
time, that I'm just writing whatever I'm interested

01:06:11.610 --> 01:06:14.329
in what I feel like I can write, I can, I can

01:06:14.329 --> 01:06:16.469
finish this and I'll have to figure it out later.

01:06:16.829 --> 01:06:21.780
You know, I said to myself, Recently, it was

01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:26.639
a non posted Facebook comment I posted. I have

01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:28.940
to accommodate myself to the idea that when I

01:06:28.940 --> 01:06:30.679
put out the next book that absolutely no one

01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:32.780
is going to buy it. I will not sell a single

01:06:32.780 --> 01:06:36.059
copy by just doing it because I have to do it

01:06:36.059 --> 01:06:38.500
and that's sort of where I am. I promised you

01:06:38.500 --> 01:06:41.139
all that I would be vulnerable. for this one

01:06:41.139 --> 01:06:43.039
and just kind of acknowledge that because usually

01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:44.900
when I'm doing school of fiction stuff I'm the

01:06:44.900 --> 01:06:46.739
expert and I'm the interviewer and stuff like

01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:51.739
that the reality is that I really do not know

01:06:51.739 --> 01:06:55.260
what that I have a professional place other than

01:06:55.260 --> 01:06:58.219
what than doing this right now I still want to

01:06:58.219 --> 01:07:00.219
write I'm still writing I still like what I'm

01:07:00.219 --> 01:07:04.980
writing but it's it's been the market has been

01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:08.420
very alienating You know, I'm not saying I'm

01:07:08.420 --> 01:07:10.460
not asking for coaching or because I heard a

01:07:10.460 --> 01:07:13.059
lot of good ideas. Interviewing is giving me

01:07:13.059 --> 01:07:16.079
good ideas. You know, it's just to be honest

01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.659
about this, this feeling that after more than

01:07:18.659 --> 01:07:20.860
four years as a writer, I have absolutely no

01:07:20.860 --> 01:07:25.539
place whatsoever in the industry except this

01:07:25.539 --> 01:07:27.940
kind of, you know, pose of being the grand old

01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:36.059
man. You know, it's tough. idea of this book

01:07:36.059 --> 01:07:40.039
I hadn't been pushing very well because some,

01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:42.659
I've just been getting the wrong people talking

01:07:42.659 --> 01:07:45.880
to me because this one book I wrote, this lady

01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:49.699
told me nobody would ever want to read that book.

01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:52.739
I mean, and it has gotten some really good reviews

01:07:52.739 --> 01:07:56.420
too. And it's called The Fishing Trip and basically

01:07:56.420 --> 01:07:58.699
what it's about. And as we was talking, I was

01:07:58.699 --> 01:08:00.760
like, oh my God, I could have been pushing that.

01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:04.139
with the Epstein files because what it's about

01:08:04.139 --> 01:08:10.000
is the the guy in there was abused as a child

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:12.760
in the whole little town it's a bunch of pedophiles

01:08:12.760 --> 01:08:16.180
are some abusing people and then these children

01:08:16.180 --> 01:08:20.039
started taking care of these pedophiles you know

01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:22.680
like getting rid of them and when they got older

01:08:22.680 --> 01:08:27.859
the guy gets rid of pedophiles and his main point

01:08:27.859 --> 01:08:32.869
is um life deserves action and um the latest

01:08:32.869 --> 01:08:35.050
thing i would ever want to read that book but

01:08:35.050 --> 01:08:37.789
i'm like i would i'd want to read that yeah are

01:08:37.789 --> 01:08:41.250
you going to call the fishing crew that book

01:08:41.250 --> 01:08:43.069
inside one of those groups that you know for

01:08:43.069 --> 01:08:45.130
like you know child abuse or whatever and that

01:08:45.130 --> 01:08:48.510
book was so hot i was like i was just sitting

01:08:48.510 --> 01:08:52.229
here and i've been trying to write the the little

01:08:52.229 --> 01:08:55.250
short stories for the everybody who's in there

01:08:55.250 --> 01:08:58.039
to just so you can see where they all came from.

01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:01.399
And I was stuck. But as y 'all were talking,

01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:03.859
I was like, man, I could have been pushing that

01:09:03.859 --> 01:09:07.899
book this time. Wait till tomorrow, I'm gonna

01:09:07.899 --> 01:09:13.159
write something about it. Because she said, oh

01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:17.739
my God, and she's a big promoter now. Because

01:09:17.739 --> 01:09:19.920
when I first met her, she was asking about books

01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:22.300
and what you write. And when I sent that in,

01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:24.140
nobody's ever going to read that book. But then

01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:26.819
I watch her now. She's promoting. That's her

01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:29.899
job. She promotes people. I've never brought

01:09:29.899 --> 01:09:35.560
it back up in her face, but. Well, that's that's

01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:37.600
just goes back to like finding your people. You

01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:40.520
know, she's not she's not one of yours. I went

01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:44.720
to years ago. No, not that many. Couple of years

01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:46.920
ago, I think it was. I went to Balticon. which

01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:51.079
is a science fiction. They bill it as a science

01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:54.220
fiction and fantasy book con, but it's really

01:09:54.220 --> 01:09:58.279
heavy on the science fiction. So it's in Maryland.

01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:02.119
So it was a road trip. I'm doing all these shows

01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:04.359
in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, where I live.

01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:07.380
This is going to extend my reach, and maybe I

01:10:07.380 --> 01:10:09.899
can find some people in a different state, and

01:10:09.899 --> 01:10:13.479
that would be great. So I get down there, and

01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:17.260
it's plenty of authors. plenty of indie authors,

01:10:17.739 --> 01:10:22.680
but the biggest genre is sci -fi. And I would

01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:25.380
say the median age of the people going to the

01:10:25.380 --> 01:10:30.100
con are about 60. So these aren't just like sci

01:10:30.100 --> 01:10:35.479
-fi fans. These are like Isaac Asimov, Elrond

01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:39.569
Hubbard, Robert A. Heinlein. Like, you know,

01:10:39.670 --> 01:10:42.409
H .G. Wells, like all, you know, old school stuff

01:10:42.409 --> 01:10:44.149
like that. So if I had, you know, maybe if I

01:10:44.149 --> 01:10:45.449
had spaceships or something, they would have

01:10:45.449 --> 01:10:48.329
been like, hmm. But I couldn't tell you how many

01:10:48.329 --> 01:10:50.949
people walk by my table and went vampires. No,

01:10:51.369 --> 01:10:56.210
no, no. And if if I didn't get myself in that

01:10:56.210 --> 01:10:58.510
kind of mindset where I was like, these aren't

01:10:58.510 --> 01:11:00.529
my people, I probably would have walked away

01:11:00.529 --> 01:11:03.869
from that event thinking, oh, my God, this is

01:11:03.869 --> 01:11:06.960
what am I doing? You know, but I. Thankfully,

01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:10.239
I was in that headspace where I was like, I'm

01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:15.220
in the wrong con. Yeah. Well, I just want to

01:11:15.220 --> 01:11:18.220
add that, you know, to answer my question also,

01:11:18.579 --> 01:11:22.920
I do actually look at what my audience wants.

01:11:23.439 --> 01:11:27.399
And one thing I do is I look at agents manuscript

01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:31.300
wishlist. It's a great way to see like what's

01:11:31.300 --> 01:11:34.479
trending and so I still write about what I want

01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:37.260
to write about but I'm incorporating a lot more

01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:42.680
like LGBTQ plus topics and characters, a lot

01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:45.659
more multicultural characters than I ever wrote

01:11:45.659 --> 01:11:49.239
before. And I got a lot of sensitivity readers

01:11:49.239 --> 01:11:52.140
because I've never written from, you know, certain

01:11:52.140 --> 01:11:55.100
viewpoints and things. But I feel like it made

01:11:55.100 --> 01:11:58.420
my writing richer to really like, look and see

01:11:58.420 --> 01:12:03.539
what do teenagers care about and somehow work

01:12:03.539 --> 01:12:09.350
that into my idea. So. Yeah. Well, in romance,

01:12:09.529 --> 01:12:12.289
there are a lot of expectations as far as your

01:12:12.289 --> 01:12:15.449
tropes and your sub -genres go. So you really

01:12:15.449 --> 01:12:17.930
have to keep those in mind. Cause if you throw

01:12:17.930 --> 01:12:19.430
something out there that people haven't seen

01:12:19.430 --> 01:12:22.170
before, it's, you know, that doesn't get received

01:12:22.170 --> 01:12:25.329
all that well usually. So, you know, you don't

01:12:25.329 --> 01:12:29.789
really want to invent. Yeah. And you have to

01:12:29.789 --> 01:12:32.170
have at least a happy ending or happy for now.

01:12:32.369 --> 01:12:35.750
So that's very important in romance. Otherwise,

01:12:35.909 --> 01:12:37.770
you have Nicholas Sparks, and that's not romance.

01:12:38.909 --> 01:12:41.250
Right, right, right. Yeah, you do have to feed

01:12:41.250 --> 01:12:44.170
into the, you know, especially for certain genres,

01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:47.430
especially like mysteries, sci -fi, you know,

01:12:47.609 --> 01:12:50.630
thrillers. Yes, it's a little bit formulaic,

01:12:50.630 --> 01:12:53.770
and that's where I kind of struggle, because

01:12:53.770 --> 01:12:58.270
I'm a thriller writer, but I'm also a sci -fi

01:12:58.270 --> 01:13:02.699
writer, but not typical sci -fi. care about spaceships

01:13:02.699 --> 01:13:07.680
and monsters. I write about the mind. So it is

01:13:07.680 --> 01:13:10.840
hard, you know, but I try to like, listen to

01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:14.260
and look at what you know, not just what's popular,

01:13:14.260 --> 01:13:18.399
but like what the agents are asking for. That's

01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:21.340
the way to do it. Take those expectations and

01:13:21.340 --> 01:13:26.399
make that story yours too, you know? Right. Exactly.

01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:29.579
You know, it's really awful when I do read current

01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:32.199
stuff and I'm like, all right, this is the last

01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:34.539
three books. It's like, you know, different characters,

01:13:34.979 --> 01:13:37.659
same book, you know, these books that are super

01:13:37.659 --> 01:13:40.819
popular. And I'm like, all right, it's the same.

01:13:42.029 --> 01:13:44.609
This girl's on a boat that girl's on a train,

01:13:44.609 --> 01:13:51.710
but it's like I'm querying right now and the

01:13:51.710 --> 01:13:54.750
first time the first time I queried was in 2022

01:13:54.750 --> 01:13:59.189
and Ultimately, I had to shelve the book because

01:13:59.189 --> 01:14:01.810
I got a full request and I got some feedback

01:14:01.810 --> 01:14:05.449
and on how to tweak it and stuff and by that

01:14:05.449 --> 01:14:08.210
time My vampire series had already kind of taken

01:14:08.210 --> 01:14:11.069
off on my self publishing track So I'm like,

01:14:11.250 --> 01:14:12.489
I don't really have time to focus on this right

01:14:12.489 --> 01:14:15.569
now, so I kind of shelved it. Fast forward now,

01:14:15.569 --> 01:14:18.409
I have a novella that I'm querying brand new.

01:14:18.970 --> 01:14:21.989
And the difference in those three years, we were

01:14:21.989 --> 01:14:28.029
talking about how imposter syndrome hits underrepresented

01:14:28.029 --> 01:14:31.829
demographics more than, say, white dudes, right?

01:14:34.050 --> 01:14:37.670
When I query right now, first of all, most of

01:14:37.670 --> 01:14:40.729
the agents that I see out there are are women

01:14:40.729 --> 01:14:47.930
and they are hungry for LGBTQ plus um own voices

01:14:47.930 --> 01:14:53.710
written by um you know people of color and they

01:14:53.710 --> 01:14:57.770
disabled it yes it in three years and i'm and

01:14:57.770 --> 01:15:01.689
i'm glad to see it because it's it's this it's

01:15:01.689 --> 01:15:03.689
this industry just walk through a barnes and

01:15:03.689 --> 01:15:07.729
noble or any bookstore yeah it's it's it's this

01:15:07.729 --> 01:15:12.060
dominated you know one -sided place, you know

01:15:12.060 --> 01:15:16.899
literature and People are like going we need

01:15:16.899 --> 01:15:20.779
other voices we need other stuff and Going through

01:15:20.779 --> 01:15:24.319
a manuscript wish wish list as you said is like

01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:26.600
arming yourself with all the information you

01:15:26.600 --> 01:15:29.479
need is this the right agent for me are they

01:15:29.479 --> 01:15:34.180
looking for what I have and Yeah, it's just a

01:15:34.180 --> 01:15:38.420
great way to do it and it's It's great to see

01:15:38.420 --> 01:15:46.979
the industry do it. It doesn't help me. It just

01:15:46.979 --> 01:15:50.039
means that I have to step it up a bit, which

01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:52.939
is good because it's been a long time coming.

01:15:55.420 --> 01:15:59.640
I wanted to say to Matt, what you're feeling

01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:03.319
is imposter syndrome. It's riding under pressure.

01:16:04.449 --> 01:16:07.329
um that you finally find find your place and

01:16:07.329 --> 01:16:11.670
then you feel the constant you know push to produce

01:16:11.670 --> 01:16:15.170
you don't have to um because there's sometimes

01:16:15.170 --> 01:16:17.989
at a time that you i mean i literally had a time

01:16:17.989 --> 01:16:20.930
i didn't write at all at all and then all of

01:16:20.930 --> 01:16:25.079
a sudden there it comes. It may be that you know

01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:27.380
how you open a jar and you have to you try it

01:16:27.380 --> 01:16:29.460
with your hands and it still don't open right

01:16:29.460 --> 01:16:32.060
and so you have to go find something like maybe

01:16:32.060 --> 01:16:34.460
one of those little flat things you put on top

01:16:34.460 --> 01:16:37.060
and it grips it and you have to find something

01:16:37.060 --> 01:16:40.039
to open it. This could be your time that you're

01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:42.560
finding something to open what you really are

01:16:42.560 --> 01:16:45.600
going to write about. So take this time and just

01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:49.039
like just chill like really. I would get so much

01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:51.619
imposter syndrome when I tried to write anything

01:16:51.619 --> 01:16:56.239
other than when COVID struck. I tried to write

01:16:56.239 --> 01:17:01.119
a book from the point of view of a mixed race

01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:05.359
female, high school girl, part Asian, part Black.

01:17:06.539 --> 01:17:09.520
And I thought this is kind of what even back

01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:11.020
then I thought the industry was looking for.

01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:13.100
And I liked her and I liked the character and

01:17:13.100 --> 01:17:16.579
I liked the writing. I said to myself, but I

01:17:16.579 --> 01:17:18.680
would be considered an imposter for this right

01:17:18.680 --> 01:17:22.159
because I even if I can't pull it off because

01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:26.199
I'm not those things and I stopped I never did

01:17:26.199 --> 01:17:29.640
finish it and because I would genuinely have

01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:32.560
been an imposter writing such a book even though

01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:35.060
I like the characters and I like the situation.

01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:38.819
Do you still believe that Matt? I don't think

01:17:38.819 --> 01:17:41.279
so. I don't think so. I don't think you would.

01:17:41.619 --> 01:17:44.880
I had a guy with Sean McMichaels and he wrote

01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:50.699
a book about an Indian reservation. It was a

01:17:50.699 --> 01:17:55.520
thriller. And the Indian young boy fell in love

01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:58.760
with a white girl. It was in Montana somewhere.

01:17:59.739 --> 01:18:03.979
And I said, so where do you get your thoughts

01:18:03.979 --> 01:18:06.760
because you're not Indian. I don't know, because

01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:08.039
we're cracking up laughing. I was like, you're

01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:10.739
not Indian. So he says, yeah. He said, what I

01:18:10.739 --> 01:18:15.579
had to do is what he calls shadow work is hang

01:18:15.579 --> 01:18:21.100
out with somebody of that color. Hang out with

01:18:21.100 --> 01:18:26.899
them. I had an author recently on, Alex Temblador,

01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:29.720
who has a book about writing identity, not your

01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:33.520
own, who said very much the same thing you have

01:18:33.520 --> 01:18:35.729
to. make friends within the community that you're

01:18:35.729 --> 01:18:39.689
writing about. I did not think that being the

01:18:39.689 --> 01:18:42.470
teacher of those teenage girls was sufficient.

01:18:43.850 --> 01:18:48.930
That's sufficient. You know, Jennifer brought

01:18:48.930 --> 01:18:51.590
up sensitivity readers, which I think is a great

01:18:51.590 --> 01:18:55.649
resource. Alex was recommending that too. Yeah,

01:18:55.710 --> 01:18:58.449
I've used sensitivity readers before. I wrote

01:18:58.449 --> 01:19:04.149
my first manuscript. The woman was lesbian. So

01:19:04.149 --> 01:19:07.189
I didn't, you know, I had to hire a sensitivity

01:19:07.189 --> 01:19:10.130
reader for that. And then I have another character

01:19:10.130 --> 01:19:15.189
in my current series who's deaf. And I wanted

01:19:15.189 --> 01:19:17.630
to be very not, you know, not only do you want

01:19:17.630 --> 01:19:19.310
to get it right, but you want to be sensitive

01:19:19.310 --> 01:19:22.590
to not use something accidentally that just comes

01:19:22.590 --> 01:19:28.869
off bad. You know, so. So I don't think you would

01:19:28.869 --> 01:19:31.109
have been an imposter to write outside your demographic,

01:19:31.130 --> 01:19:34.159
I think. If I think it's the opposite, I think

01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:36.600
we're expected to because otherwise I'm writing

01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:40.119
if that was the case, I'd write stories about

01:19:40.119 --> 01:19:42.899
a bunch of white men that are in IT, you know,

01:19:42.899 --> 01:19:47.640
and it'd be a very boring story. No, but you're

01:19:47.640 --> 01:19:50.560
right, Matt. I hear you because I love legal

01:19:50.560 --> 01:19:54.039
and medical thrillers, but I would never try

01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:58.960
to write one. I do not know firsthand, you know,

01:19:59.260 --> 01:20:02.829
enough to write that Well, you know, that's I

01:20:02.829 --> 01:20:05.189
feel like kind of the same way. Like, I love

01:20:05.189 --> 01:20:08.390
reading them and watching them, but I wouldn't

01:20:08.390 --> 01:20:12.670
try myself to write it like as a doctor or a

01:20:12.670 --> 01:20:15.270
lawyer, because I wouldn't even think the way

01:20:15.270 --> 01:20:17.770
that they would. And you're on the subject, my

01:20:17.770 --> 01:20:21.359
my sister, she particular show on TV that is

01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:24.399
in her field and she can't stand the show because

01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:26.939
she's like Nobody in the field would say what

01:20:26.939 --> 01:20:30.539
they said or do it that way because she has firsthand

01:20:30.539 --> 01:20:32.600
knowledge, you know So I kind of feel like I

01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:34.920
would be an imposter if I tried to write a medical

01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:37.260
thriller or like right, you know be John Grisham

01:20:37.260 --> 01:20:43.779
So I hear you about that I have written people

01:20:43.779 --> 01:20:48.000
of color quite a bit E, you just read one book

01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:50.500
when I was most proud of how I did that. I don't

01:20:50.500 --> 01:20:53.199
know, you didn't comment to me about it, but

01:20:53.199 --> 01:20:56.100
I don't want to be afraid to do those things,

01:20:56.140 --> 01:20:59.319
but it's just that I also don't, it's more like

01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:01.960
a perception of being an imposter rather than

01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:04.720
an, it's kind of the feeling that people are

01:21:04.720 --> 01:21:06.260
going to say, you shouldn't have done that. You

01:21:06.260 --> 01:21:08.520
had no right to do that. That's the syndrome.

01:21:09.060 --> 01:21:14.100
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not true. It's not true.

01:21:14.489 --> 01:21:16.630
Well, let me ask a question for Jennifer. Then

01:21:16.630 --> 01:21:18.729
you talked about medical writing about medical

01:21:18.729 --> 01:21:21.229
because it's not, you know, something you're

01:21:21.229 --> 01:21:22.409
I don't know. I don't want to put boards in your

01:21:22.409 --> 01:21:23.890
mouth, but you're not comfortable writing or

01:21:23.890 --> 01:21:26.670
you don't feel you have the expertise. Are you

01:21:26.670 --> 01:21:31.050
are you? Do you have like biker gangs or bikers

01:21:31.050 --> 01:21:33.050
in your in your life? Or is that something you

01:21:33.050 --> 01:21:36.029
had? I was part of the biker community in Fort

01:21:36.029 --> 01:21:39.609
Lauderdale for many years. And so, right. I was

01:21:39.609 --> 01:21:42.729
I'm biker adjacent. That's what I call myself.

01:21:43.210 --> 01:21:46.300
But like I And I actually had a lot of bikers

01:21:46.300 --> 01:21:48.960
read my stuff because like in my plot I needed

01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:52.539
a criminal group and I happened to also be watching

01:21:52.539 --> 01:21:56.520
sons of anarchy at the time Yeah, it was so great.

01:21:56.520 --> 01:21:59.500
I was taking notes about what they wore how they

01:21:59.500 --> 01:22:02.960
talked This is only half of my book But yeah,

01:22:03.020 --> 01:22:06.500
but I also have a lot of some skinhead stuff

01:22:06.500 --> 01:22:08.300
and that's where like someone said to me I'm

01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:12.359
not going to I never wrote such edgy content

01:22:12.359 --> 01:22:14.560
and I was kind of like should I use is the N

01:22:14.560 --> 01:22:19.319
word because the skinhead person would and I

01:22:19.319 --> 01:22:23.300
had I had several sensitivity readers I decided

01:22:23.300 --> 01:22:28.060
to take that word out. And I just changed that

01:22:28.060 --> 01:22:30.840
scene quite a bit because I didn't feel comfortable

01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.000
with what the guy said, but, you know, so I had

01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:36.899
to kind of, you know, make that decision. And

01:22:36.899 --> 01:22:39.720
just in general, yeah, definitely the sensitivity

01:22:39.720 --> 01:22:42.819
readers were amazing. And I had people of several

01:22:42.819 --> 01:22:45.920
different, you know, I had a couple, you know,

01:22:45.939 --> 01:22:49.260
I had a transvestite person read, I had several

01:22:49.260 --> 01:22:51.260
different people of all different. And it was

01:22:51.260 --> 01:22:53.800
very, very helpful because, you know, also, like

01:22:53.800 --> 01:22:56.260
someone mentioned sensitivity, like someone said,

01:22:56.399 --> 01:22:58.420
God, don't say that like that. And I'm like,

01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:01.439
is that wrong? Like I didn't know and so that

01:23:01.439 --> 01:23:04.000
was very very helpful for me because you know

01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:06.140
Sometimes you don't realize what you're saying

01:23:06.140 --> 01:23:11.020
could really offend somebody. Yeah, so put all

01:23:11.020 --> 01:23:16.960
the curses and once it becomes a movie I'm a

01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:19.340
big proponent of if something if you have a subject

01:23:19.340 --> 01:23:22.340
that's that you're passionate about and you don't

01:23:22.340 --> 01:23:24.600
know enough about it to write about it or You

01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:27.079
could research it I like to use Michael Crichton

01:23:27.079 --> 01:23:29.460
as an example, because not only did he do ER,

01:23:29.939 --> 01:23:32.340
but he also did Westworld and Jurassic Park.

01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:35.840
And I think Michael Crichton may have a medical

01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:38.380
background. So ER felt like me. He was a doctor.

01:23:38.539 --> 01:23:43.239
He was in America. Yeah. But when he did Jurassic

01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:45.500
Park, he went and he talked to paleontologists.

01:23:45.579 --> 01:23:47.220
And he brought himself. He had an idea for a

01:23:47.220 --> 01:23:49.140
story, but he didn't know enough about dinosaurs.

01:23:49.260 --> 01:23:54.819
So he brought himself up to speed. If that's

01:23:54.819 --> 01:23:58.319
something you want to do, then I wouldn't, if

01:23:58.319 --> 01:24:00.300
it's a subject that you want to write about,

01:24:01.060 --> 01:24:04.039
I wouldn't hold yourself back from it because

01:24:04.039 --> 01:24:06.520
you don't feel like you're allowed to do it.

01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:09.800
Right. And I do have some medical things, but

01:24:09.800 --> 01:24:11.880
like, like I love Tess Garretson. She's one of

01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:14.180
my very, very favorites, but like I could never

01:24:14.180 --> 01:24:16.520
write like her because she was a medical examiner

01:24:16.520 --> 01:24:18.439
and I just wouldn't even know. And those things

01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:21.760
wouldn't even occur to me. So I wouldn't write

01:24:21.760 --> 01:24:24.340
as that, like as a main character probably. But

01:24:24.340 --> 01:24:26.340
yeah, I definitely agree. You could do research

01:24:26.340 --> 01:24:28.119
on like, you know, you're saying like, you know,

01:24:28.140 --> 01:24:31.319
go hang out with people of whoever you're trying

01:24:31.319 --> 01:24:36.699
to write. Yeah. So we're coming to the later

01:24:36.699 --> 01:24:41.000
part of our time. And so let's, I guess, go around

01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:44.500
and give a final message about imposter syndrome.

01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:46.359
What did we learn? What are we thinking about

01:24:46.359 --> 01:24:52.100
this? And then we'll start scheduling part two.

01:24:53.260 --> 01:24:54.920
Some of you are going to be in another forum

01:24:54.920 --> 01:25:00.479
that I have coming up in December also. Who wants

01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:05.100
to start? Well, it's good to know that we're

01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:09.619
not alone. So we all have suffered from the same

01:25:09.619 --> 01:25:13.460
syndrome and we will continue to suffer that

01:25:13.460 --> 01:25:17.880
for the rest of our careers. And it's okay. You

01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:19.520
can work through it. You can get through it.

01:25:19.779 --> 01:25:25.119
I was so nervous to be on here. I almost didn't

01:25:25.119 --> 01:25:27.619
come on because I was like, oh man, I don't have

01:25:27.619 --> 01:25:34.600
nothing to say. I'm just lost. Well, same. I

01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:37.500
had a very brain -draining day at work, so it

01:25:37.500 --> 01:25:43.539
was rough. It was rough. Yeah. Yeah, I think

01:25:43.539 --> 01:25:46.180
it's natural. I think we've all experienced it.

01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:53.000
And I almost want to say we should embrace it

01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:56.500
a little bit. Maybe take a step back, wallow

01:25:56.500 --> 01:25:58.199
in it for a long while, and maybe figure out

01:25:58.199 --> 01:26:02.479
why you feel the way that you do. And then wait

01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:07.939
for that jar to open again. And then dig back

01:26:07.939 --> 01:26:13.000
into it when you're ready. Definitely. Awareness

01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:16.560
is really helpful. This has helped me to know

01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:21.640
I'm not alone in my fears and insecurities. We

01:26:21.640 --> 01:26:25.359
all have them no matter how accomplished we are.

01:26:26.220 --> 01:26:29.039
maybe we can maybe a bit more as a motivator

01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:32.239
to do better and you know kind of like you know

01:26:32.239 --> 01:26:35.000
get out of our comfort zones a bit and start

01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:37.779
you know working on those voices so you can just

01:26:37.779 --> 01:26:40.800
like call everyone and get them to carry your

01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:42.600
book. I don't know that's a really good tip,

01:26:42.739 --> 01:26:47.899
I wrote it down actually. I don't know how we

01:26:47.899 --> 01:26:53.399
got an echo but I apologize to the echo at the

01:26:53.399 --> 01:26:56.329
end here. Am I the only one hearing it? Am I

01:26:56.329 --> 01:26:57.750
the only one hearing it? I'm hearing it too.

01:26:57.869 --> 01:26:59.970
I'm hearing it too. I'm hearing it too. I'm hearing

01:26:59.970 --> 01:27:03.970
it too. All right. So I think I'll talk to you

01:27:03.970 --> 01:27:07.350
quick. I'll talk to you quick. I think my summary

01:27:07.350 --> 01:27:13.170
is that one of the best answers out of this session

01:27:13.170 --> 01:27:16.670
of talking about this topic is working together.

01:27:17.449 --> 01:27:21.510
And I feel like now I'll turn to these communities.

01:27:44.230 --> 01:27:47.390
So imposter syndrome isn't the voice of truth

01:27:47.390 --> 01:27:51.270
guys, it's the echo. of old rooms that we've

01:27:51.270 --> 01:27:55.010
been in, old rules that we agreed to, and old

01:27:55.010 --> 01:28:00.210
stories. So we've outgrown them. And think of

01:28:00.210 --> 01:28:04.569
imposter syndrome as a signal to something bigger

01:28:04.569 --> 01:28:11.390
than you were raised to believe. That's it. And

01:28:11.390 --> 01:28:14.010
it's really enlightening to be with you all.

01:28:16.750 --> 01:28:21.949
So let's just say what we want and then we'll

01:28:21.949 --> 01:28:29.550
sign off. So what's next for everyone? Hey, I'm

01:28:29.550 --> 01:28:31.750
going to do something to promote my fishing trip.

01:28:32.289 --> 01:28:38.390
There you go. We'll do that tomorrow. Well, I'm

01:28:38.390 --> 01:28:41.689
very excited. And I'm working on two. Well, my

01:28:41.689 --> 01:28:43.829
book is One and Vermillion May Live. I'm working

01:28:43.829 --> 01:28:47.850
on Two and Vermillion May Die. But I also have

01:28:47.850 --> 01:28:51.329
this. these 13 short stories I've been working

01:28:51.329 --> 01:28:55.029
on for 15 years. And I wrote a novel around them.

01:28:55.189 --> 01:28:57.470
And I'm getting ready to query it. It's called

01:28:57.470 --> 01:29:00.850
What Happened in the Janitor's Closet. And I'm

01:29:00.850 --> 01:29:04.010
very excited. It's a psychological suspense with

01:29:04.010 --> 01:29:06.930
a locked room mystery and an embedded short story

01:29:06.930 --> 01:29:12.029
collection. Super excited. Nice. Nice. Nice.

01:29:13.579 --> 01:29:16.680
Well, I am working on, hopefully, finishing the

01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:21.520
fourth book in my romantic comedy series. I've

01:29:21.520 --> 01:29:24.399
got the draft written. I just have to get motivated

01:29:24.399 --> 01:29:28.539
enough to actually finish it. What's your series

01:29:28.539 --> 01:29:31.760
called? Yes. I can tell you how good they are.

01:29:31.840 --> 01:29:35.119
They're all amazing. I finally opened it last

01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:52.840
weekend for the first time. I don't know. I think

01:29:52.840 --> 01:29:54.640
I'm the only one left on the recording. Thank

01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:59.720
you all so much for being here and I'll get this

01:29:59.720 --> 01:30:04.350
out as soon as I can. Thank you so much. If you

01:30:04.350 --> 01:30:06.729
are podcast host listen up this one's for you

01:30:06.729 --> 01:30:08.590
my name is alley jackson i'm the host of finding

01:30:08.590 --> 01:30:10.810
mr height a dating and relationship podcast that

01:30:10.810 --> 01:30:13.109
i've been doing for four years now sharing my

01:30:13.109 --> 01:30:15.270
positive and practical approach to dating that's

01:30:15.270 --> 01:30:17.350
built on my own life experience and i wanted

01:30:17.350 --> 01:30:19.689
to share another experience that i've had my

01:30:19.689 --> 01:30:21.930
secret behind monetizing my show it's called

01:30:21.930 --> 01:30:23.850
red circle and i was just telling my colleague

01:30:23.850 --> 01:30:26.590
about how much i love their platform with red

01:30:26.590 --> 01:30:28.630
circle not only am i getting a seamless hosting

01:30:28.630 --> 01:30:31.069
experience but i also love the support i receive

01:30:31.069 --> 01:30:33.289
in ad sales it's not just typical ad sales either.

01:30:33.229 --> 01:30:36.109
It's targeted opportunities based on my show

01:30:36.109 --> 01:30:38.130
and my life. And the platform is super simple.

01:30:38.289 --> 01:30:39.989
You just set your preferences and Red Circle

01:30:39.989 --> 01:30:42.050
matches you with sponsors that align with your

01:30:42.050 --> 01:30:44.229
show. You can vet every opportunity and their

01:30:44.229 --> 01:30:46.350
platform gives you great analytics. More recently

01:30:46.350 --> 01:30:48.529
too, my Red Circle team has brought me opportunities

01:30:48.529 --> 01:30:51.050
outside of my podcast on social media to really

01:30:51.050 --> 01:30:52.909
augment the podcast partnerships, bring them

01:30:52.909 --> 01:30:55.189
full circle. I just can't recommend them enough.

01:30:55.350 --> 01:30:57.289
If you want to give it a try, go to redcircle

01:30:57.289 --> 01:30:59.890
.com to get your free trial. That's redcircle

01:30:59.890 --> 01:31:01.350
.com for a free trial.