WEBVTT 00:00:16.649 --> 00:00:19.809 Hello and welcome to Russia Decoded, a podcast 00:00:19.809 --> 00:00:21.730 of the Center for the National Interest in Washington, 00:00:21.870 --> 00:00:25.629 D.C. I'm your co -host, Andy Kuchins, a senior 00:00:25.629 --> 00:00:27.309 fellow at the Center for the National Interest 00:00:27.309 --> 00:00:30.350 and also... an adjunct professor of international 00:00:30.350 --> 00:00:32.490 relations at the Johns Hopkins University School 00:00:32.490 --> 00:00:35.289 of Advanced International Studies. And I'm joined, 00:00:35.350 --> 00:00:38.549 as always, by my co-host, Chris Monday, who 00:00:38.549 --> 00:00:41.509 is a professor of economics at Dongseo University 00:00:41.509 --> 00:00:45.670 in Busan, South Korea, but here through the end 00:00:45.670 --> 00:00:47.850 of this month as well, on a summer break in his 00:00:47.850 --> 00:00:50.549 hometown of Los Angeles. It does make it easier 00:00:50.549 --> 00:00:54.369 for us to do the broadcast. Hey, Chris, good 00:00:54.369 --> 00:00:57.280 to see you. Good to be here, Andy. Just enjoyed 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:00.640 the Christopher Nolan Odyssey in IMAX. It's a 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.019 great film. We had discussed it last week and 00:01:04.019 --> 00:01:08.019 apparently Vesti Nedeli took some, well, they 00:01:08.019 --> 00:01:09.920 didn't quite get everything right about it, did 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.680 they? So with your positive recommendation, I 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.959 will see it myself. Our weekly podcast, Russia 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.340 Decoded, we kind of view ourselves as old school 00:01:18.340 --> 00:01:21.450 Kremlinologists. The database we use for the 00:01:21.450 --> 00:01:24.590 most part is the state news broadcast, Viesti, 00:01:24.590 --> 00:01:26.909 during the week, and particularly their Sunday 00:01:26.909 --> 00:01:30.769 news show, Viesti Nadelli. And we are recording 00:01:30.769 --> 00:01:35.049 this podcast, our 34th, and it's also the 231st 00:01:35.049 --> 00:01:37.930 week of the special military operation in Ukraine, 00:01:38.150 --> 00:01:40.650 as Mr. Putin calls it. Everyone else calls it 00:01:40.650 --> 00:01:44.689 the war in Ukraine. And we're recording on Monday, 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:47.590 August 3rd, which is my dog Maddie's, our golden 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:50.409 retriever's, fourth birthday. The Vestia Deli 00:01:50.409 --> 00:01:53.810 show was on Sunday night, August 2nd. So, with 00:01:53.810 --> 00:01:57.370 no further ado, why don't we get rolling? So, 00:01:57.390 --> 00:01:59.189 Chris, I never anticipated that I would miss 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:02.489 Dmitry Kiselev, who is the regular moderator 00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:06.049 of Vestia Deli. But he's been on vacation now. 00:02:06.150 --> 00:02:08.229 I think this is the third show he's been away. 00:02:08.610 --> 00:02:11.229 And he's going to be away for the rest of this 00:02:11.229 --> 00:02:14.270 month of August. We've got a lot to suffer through. 00:02:14.750 --> 00:02:18.009 Yeah, we do. And these broadcasts with Yevgeny 00:02:18.009 --> 00:02:19.949 Popov, I mean, by comparison, they're really 00:02:19.949 --> 00:02:22.810 tedious. They lack any flair and originality. 00:02:22.949 --> 00:02:25.569 And again, like the previous couple of weeks, 00:02:25.629 --> 00:02:27.629 there's much more coverage of the war in Ukraine. 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.979 Multiple correspondent stories, Russian and North 00:02:31.979 --> 00:02:34.680 Korean, at least one North Korean ballistic missile 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.939 reported on striking Kiev and elsewhere in Ukraine 00:02:37.939 --> 00:02:41.000 at will, as Ukraine has almost no air defense 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.080 to deal with ballistic missiles. There's a global 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.840 shortage of Patriot missiles. Russian artillery, 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:49.300 we're told, is also getting upgraded and more 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:52.060 accurate with the tornado and crocodile systems. 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.659 The Ukrainian military -industrial complex infrastructure, 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.400 by VST reporting, is really taking a beating. 00:02:58.580 --> 00:03:03.060 There was a bombing of a Firepoint factory. I'm 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:04.840 not sure if it's the Firepoint factory actually 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.460 where they produce the Flamingo missiles. Also, 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:09.919 the bombing of a joint U .S.-Ukrainian company 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:12.900 producing targeting systems. Now, last week, 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:16.020 we did discuss the Flamingo missiles some, and 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:18.599 it's true that the Ukrainian government has not 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.919 been talking much about them, but they have been 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.580 used in long -range strikes up to 1 ,200 kilometers 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:27.939 from the battlefield. Apparently, their capacity 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:31.219 is 3 ,000 kilometers. But this past week, they 00:03:31.219 --> 00:03:34.580 were in the news. This was something not reported, 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.500 actually, on Viesti Nijeli, but the Firepoint 00:03:38.500 --> 00:03:43.659 CEO, Denise Stillerman, made a post about, quote 00:03:43.659 --> 00:03:47.460 -unquote, flamingos over Iran last week, including 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:51.699 a video of a flamingo missile in flight. Wow. 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.219 Now, that caused quite a stir, and Stillerman... 00:03:55.629 --> 00:03:58.990 I think wisely deleted his post, but probably 00:03:58.990 --> 00:04:00.990 a better idea never to post it in the first place. 00:04:01.389 --> 00:04:05.270 But as we discussed last week, Ukraine had struck 00:04:05.270 --> 00:04:08.389 an Iranian ship in the Caspian last week. And 00:04:08.389 --> 00:04:10.810 my hypothesis there is that this was to catch 00:04:10.810 --> 00:04:14.129 the attention of Donald Trump while Zelensky 00:04:14.129 --> 00:04:16.930 was in Washington. But this was really an audacious 00:04:16.930 --> 00:04:20.230 move by Stillerman to post this. And it really 00:04:20.230 --> 00:04:22.990 highlights the huge dangers of escalation that 00:04:22.990 --> 00:04:25.879 we face across the board with the The war in 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.920 Ukraine and the war in Iran, still a conflict 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:32.360 between Afghanistan and Pakistan and other things 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:35.379 brewing. This can go so wrong in so many ways 00:04:35.379 --> 00:04:38.120 that it definitely worries me, Chris. At any 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.420 rate, apparently, as Vesti reports, Trump was 00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:44.819 not so wowed by Ukrainian help with taking out 00:04:44.819 --> 00:04:48.439 an Iranian ship. Zelensky did not get what he 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.639 wanted in Washington. He was officially there 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:52.819 for the funeral of Lindsey Graham, but Trump 00:04:52.819 --> 00:04:56.269 is not planning to send. Ukraine 300 Patriot 00:04:56.269 --> 00:04:58.730 missiles over the winter that Mr. Zelensky has 00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:02.029 requested. And Trump also did not agree as yet 00:05:02.029 --> 00:05:04.910 to a licensing agreement to Ukraine to produce 00:05:04.910 --> 00:05:08.930 the Patriots in Ukraine. That is still outstanding. 00:05:09.269 --> 00:05:12.110 And Zelensky also asked if Trump could intercede 00:05:12.110 --> 00:05:14.810 with Elon Musk on his behalf for Musk to allow 00:05:14.810 --> 00:05:17.930 Ukraine to use Starlink for targeting in Russia, 00:05:18.149 --> 00:05:22.500 which it is currently not allowed to do. Trump 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:26.579 seemed unmoved by this, and Trump and Musk did 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:28.920 not agree to a meeting with Zelensky while he 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:33.220 was in the U .S. Viesti also featured some lip 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:36.519 -reading of an unhappy Zelensky speaking with 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.819 Netanyahu at the funeral. So Zelensky struck 00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:43.579 out in D .C., much to Viesti's approval, it seems. 00:05:44.019 --> 00:05:46.819 Now, Putin met with the Duma on Monday to congratulate 00:05:46.819 --> 00:05:49.720 them on their session, which is coming to an 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.279 end with elections coming up in September. For 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:56.720 the hundreds, maybe was it 5 ,000 pieces of legislation? 00:05:57.139 --> 00:05:59.300 I don't know. It was some large number of pieces 00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:01.800 of legislation that have been passed having to 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.040 do with the special military operation. And Putin 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.000 confidently told the parliamentarians, we will 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.779 succeed. We will succeed. He was very confident 00:06:11.779 --> 00:06:13.980 about it. You know, Chris, the Duma members look 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:16.100 pretty bored to me. How many times have they 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:18.459 actually heard Putin say something to this effect? 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.019 That's a rhetorical question, but the answer 00:06:21.019 --> 00:06:24.310 is a lot. And then on a lighter note, Vesti accused 00:06:24.310 --> 00:06:29.370 MAGA influencer Laura Loomer of being bought 00:06:29.370 --> 00:06:32.529 off by Ukraine to now support them in the conflict, 00:06:32.589 --> 00:06:36.209 which she had been opposing Ukraine for the past 00:06:36.209 --> 00:06:39.529 four years. And they also literally showed her 00:06:39.529 --> 00:06:43.209 eating dog food, kind of like them showing Saakashvili 00:06:43.209 --> 00:06:45.689 eating his tie. I don't know what was going on 00:06:45.689 --> 00:06:48.250 there. At any rate, so my takeaway from this 00:06:48.250 --> 00:06:51.410 kind of turgid reporting is that Russia is grinding 00:06:51.410 --> 00:06:55.050 Ukraine down and Trump may yet intercede. They 00:06:55.050 --> 00:06:58.829 broadcast clips of Marco Rubio in his interview 00:06:58.829 --> 00:07:02.069 on Fox News talking about perhaps bringing the 00:07:02.069 --> 00:07:04.490 United States back to the negotiations table. 00:07:04.910 --> 00:07:07.410 with the conflict in Iran. But, you know, the 00:07:07.410 --> 00:07:09.069 one thing, Chris, that really jumped out at me 00:07:09.069 --> 00:07:11.750 in these opening segments was, and it's kind 00:07:11.750 --> 00:07:13.829 of the dog that did not bark, there was virtually 00:07:13.829 --> 00:07:16.850 no reporting on the war in Iran. You know, neither 00:07:16.850 --> 00:07:21.389 Trump's intimidating remarks nor his backing 00:07:21.389 --> 00:07:24.470 off them for diplomacy. Nothing, really. What's 00:07:24.470 --> 00:07:26.689 your takeaway on this earlier part of the show, 00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:29.990 Chris? If I could start with Laura Loomer, I'm 00:07:29.990 --> 00:07:34.060 very disturbed by this. Many... Foreign policy 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:36.959 elites in the U .S. have been promoting and pushing 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.620 this figure as a leading journalist. She's featured 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:43.220 in the New York Times. If I could remind our 00:07:43.220 --> 00:07:46.980 listeners, she started on Russia Today, spreading 00:07:46.980 --> 00:07:50.660 the so -called Pentagon Biolabs theory, that 00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:54.699 the Pentagon had created the secret biolabs in 00:07:54.699 --> 00:07:57.339 Ukraine. I don't know if that's just fine now 00:07:57.339 --> 00:08:01.769 or what. She, you know, recently she's been posting 00:08:01.769 --> 00:08:06.149 on who should be appointed to key national security 00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:09.910 posts at the White House, and she's listened 00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:12.870 to. For example, she blocked Lieutenant Colonel 00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:17.310 Daniel Davis, who's recognized for his honesty 00:08:17.310 --> 00:08:20.470 and integrity. So he was blocked, and then few 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:23.569 Americans even knew about this. So we see in 00:08:23.569 --> 00:08:26.970 the interview in Ukraine, she interviews Andrei 00:08:26.970 --> 00:08:32.000 Belitsky, who's, you know, he's... An open fascist, 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.700 he's declared that his goal is to destroy the 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:39.159 Jewish oligarchs. The goal of the Ukrainian nation 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:44.100 was to lead the white races in a final crusade 00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:48.759 against the Semite subhumans. So I think we all 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:54.259 need to be very disturbed by these things. It's 00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:57.059 not clear exactly why people in the U .S. would 00:08:57.059 --> 00:08:59.690 be pushing this figure. You know, I was really 00:08:59.690 --> 00:09:02.269 not that familiar with her. She's Jewish, from 00:09:02.269 --> 00:09:06.090 Arizona, 33 years old. She went for her first 00:09:06.090 --> 00:09:08.789 semester of undergraduate at Mount Holyoke College, 00:09:08.970 --> 00:09:11.570 down the road from where I was at Amherst, leading 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:14.389 all women's liberal arts college in New England. 00:09:14.549 --> 00:09:17.429 And she left after a semester because she found 00:09:17.429 --> 00:09:19.929 that as a conservative there, she didn't feel 00:09:19.929 --> 00:09:23.370 very welcome at all. And to look at her, I don't 00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:26.110 know, it kind of looks like someone who's had 00:09:26.110 --> 00:09:28.840 actually a lot of plastic surgery. at a pretty 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.620 young age on her face. I know this is really 00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:34.480 neither here nor there, but I agree with you 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.700 that, you know, how did this person become such 00:09:37.700 --> 00:09:41.720 an influential person in conservative circles? 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:44.919 Anyway, back to you. Yeah, it seems like then, 00:09:45.100 --> 00:09:47.580 you know, the Pentagon, the ideas of the Pentagon 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:50.700 biolabs are also being justified or something. 00:09:51.139 --> 00:09:55.240 It's very ominous having these figures. It's 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:57.919 not symbolic of a democratic culture at all having 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.879 these kind of figures. You know, she's not, literally 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:04.679 not an independent journalist at all. The conversation 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.860 with Belitsky, what they showed on Guesty is 00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:11.019 just bizarre. Yeah, very, very disturbing. And 00:10:11.019 --> 00:10:13.659 I worried, you know, his craziness will be imported 00:10:13.659 --> 00:10:17.379 to our American shores. Turning to other segments 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:21.580 of Vesting the Deli, they featured Tatiana Kim, 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:24.779 who runs Wild Berries, the interview where she 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:28.279 says she's going to rebuild her firm. But, you 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.460 know, many independent analysts, Ben Aris is 00:10:31.460 --> 00:10:34.379 saying Wild Berries will probably face bankruptcy. 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:38.220 I mean, this could be huge for Russia. And it's 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:40.139 definitely, I mean, this is kind of the face 00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:43.820 of Western Russia. This is, you know, where Westerners 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:48.259 sold their goods to Russians and that goes bankrupt. 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:51.879 I mean, this is just definitely, you know, for 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:54.820 me, it's kind of the end of the Western dream. 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.159 Yeah, it's 10 of their warehouses as of a day 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:02.340 or two ago have been taken out. It's bad, yeah. 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:07.120 It's quite... a strategy ukrainians are are taking 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.279 they're hitting hitting russians very hard at 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.179 places where it hurts it's hard to see russia 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:14.820 going back to some kind of market -based system 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:20.279 non -market yeah yeah Of course, they have Crimea, 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:25.059 which is under kind of blockade. And Kherson, 00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:29.399 they show that, you know, the people rallying 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:34.480 and church masses. And we see this Father Tikhonov. 00:11:34.659 --> 00:11:38.600 So Father Tikhonov, he's known as Putin's confessor. 00:11:38.889 --> 00:11:41.289 Frankly, I don't believe this. I don't think 00:11:41.289 --> 00:11:44.870 Putin is very religious. I think this is used 00:11:44.870 --> 00:11:48.590 for PR, but some people do. Some insiders tell 00:11:48.590 --> 00:11:52.230 me that he's really an influential figure for 00:11:52.230 --> 00:11:58.330 Putin, a spiritual guider. I don't really believe 00:11:58.330 --> 00:12:02.149 this, but hard to tell. But it's very interesting 00:12:02.149 --> 00:12:06.330 that we're seeing Herson again as the new, the 00:12:06.330 --> 00:12:10.899 birthplace of Rus. So, of course, you know, for 00:12:10.899 --> 00:12:15.679 older Russia scholars, Soviet, Soviet -era scholars, 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:18.340 you know, I remember I took from Peter Kanes, 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:22.860 we learned that Rus was Kiev, right? Kiev was 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:26.639 the birthplace. Under Putin, of course, it couldn't 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.879 be Kiev, you know, it's no longer Russia, and 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:33.620 so it was Ladoga, Staria Ladoga. which is not 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:36.000 far from St. Petersburg. That's the birthplace 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.059 of Russia. Now it's Kherson. I would recommend 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:46.320 to our listeners Benedict Anderson, Imagine Communities. 00:12:46.460 --> 00:12:49.700 Yes, brilliant work. It's a brilliant work that 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:53.860 unfortunately is forgotten about how malleable 00:12:53.860 --> 00:12:58.600 and artificial. This idea of nation, national 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.179 history really is. And then, of course, for Russians, 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:05.899 I just wonder, Karl Marx was very good on this, 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.940 the artificiality of nation. It seems I've kind 00:13:10.940 --> 00:13:14.399 of just forgotten that. you almost never marx 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.600 is just never mentioned in the in the russian 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.519 news and russian media at all just disappeared 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.639 well actually you know so benedict anderson so 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.019 his famous term was an imagined community and 00:13:27.019 --> 00:13:29.480 that you know sort of national myths are imagined 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:32.000 communities and they're malleable and they change 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.940 and it had actually a huge effect on the field 00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:36.960 of international relations and political science 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.139 it's the foundation for the school of so -called 00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:42.909 constructivism which emphasizes the importance 00:13:42.909 --> 00:13:46.830 of the contestation for the national idea of 00:13:46.830 --> 00:13:49.529 any place. So I'm glad you raised that. Well, 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:51.850 he seems like someone we've completely forgotten. 00:13:52.250 --> 00:13:57.610 You know, now all these historical things are 00:13:57.610 --> 00:14:01.470 just, you know, text truths, it seems like. This 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:03.590 is what Putin is all about. You know, he has 00:14:03.590 --> 00:14:06.789 a very curated, traditional, conservative narrative 00:14:06.789 --> 00:14:11.039 about the Russian idea. And he's been able to 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.120 link the so -called period of Rus' to the principality 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.340 of Muscovy, to the Russian Empire, to the Soviet 00:14:18.340 --> 00:14:23.519 Union, and to contemporary Russia in ways certainly 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:28.100 that no post -Soviet leader has. And the place 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:30.559 of Ukraine in that picture is at the heart of 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.519 all that. This is like an existential dilemma 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.629 for Russia, having an independent Ukraine. Under 00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:40.529 the Soviets, you know, at least they had Marx, 00:14:40.710 --> 00:14:43.370 who was a very sophisticated thinker, and, you 00:14:43.370 --> 00:14:46.389 know, you never had these kind of things. Right. 00:14:46.429 --> 00:14:49.110 Well, yeah, Marx was— Some level of sophistication. 00:14:49.330 --> 00:14:52.190 They were completely—he was completely opposed 00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:56.950 to nationalism, and that nationalism would be 00:14:56.950 --> 00:15:00.309 transcended by, you know, the glorious socialism, 00:15:00.649 --> 00:15:03.629 world communism, and that was sort of the essence 00:15:03.629 --> 00:15:06.919 of the ideology of the Soviet Union. Yeah. Turning 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:10.179 to a short story, but a very important story, 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.220 we see Vladimir Solovyov, the talk show host 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:19.279 and propagandist, the bombastic Jewish propagandist. 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:23.639 He interviews Yunus Bek Yakurov, you know, training 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:28.759 the soldiers. So Yakurov, he keeps, he's very 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.720 silent figure, keeps to himself in the back, 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:37.799 but he's a very I'd say he's one of the key military 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.399 figure in Russia right now. He's the one who 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:44.159 pacified Dagestan, and then he helped deal with 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:48.299 the Prigozhin mutiny. He was key with North Korea, 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.080 with getting the North Koreans and working with 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.639 North Korea. And I just saw, I don't know what 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.820 you thought, Andy, but he did not seem happy 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:59.639 with Soloviev there. He didn't. I agree with 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.740 you. He didn't look very comfortable nor happy. 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:04.759 What do you think might be at the root of that? 00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:08.379 I think he despises him. That's a good reason. 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:13.259 And of course, he is the head of Africa Corps 00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:18.340 now. Yeah. The successive organization to Prigogine's 00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:21.740 Wagner group. Yeah, he's kind of replaced. And 00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:24.399 then if I could mention a very interesting was, 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:28.259 did you notice they had Shamanov, General Shamanov 00:16:28.259 --> 00:16:31.600 at the end of the news? So Shamanov, he was key. 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.990 He was in charge of the Chechnyan. You know, 00:16:34.990 --> 00:16:39.590 brutal, brutal in the 90s. A general in charge 00:16:39.590 --> 00:16:43.789 of the rapes and the slaughter of Chechnyans 00:16:43.789 --> 00:16:46.450 in the 90s. He was very controversial. He was 00:16:46.450 --> 00:16:48.269 very popular, of course, with the far right. 00:16:48.610 --> 00:16:52.570 With Chechnyans, he's not popular at all. And 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:57.070 they usually just keep him off the news. So that's 00:16:57.070 --> 00:16:58.809 one of the first times I think I've seen him, 00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:01.570 General Shamanov. That doesn't seem to bode well. 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:06.019 I mean, a guy like that appeared. Yeah, I just 00:17:06.019 --> 00:17:09.039 think they're counting on people may not notice 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:12.680 him, or maybe it's just us that noticed. Of course, 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.500 we did see Putin. They tried to show him, as 00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:18.180 you said, very vigorous and making his statements 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:22.720 and vitriolic. And we see him meet with Matvienko. 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:26.289 They both seem kind of very aged. This one did 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:28.430 seem like a real meeting. They didn't show what 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:30.569 they're actually saying, but this one seemed 00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:33.009 like some kind of real meeting where they're 00:17:33.009 --> 00:17:35.730 discussing, they're working out their strategy. 00:17:36.130 --> 00:17:39.289 And then we did see in the background, there's 00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:44.029 Kyrianka, Sergei Kyrianka, who's slowly, I think 00:17:44.029 --> 00:17:48.930 he's slowly worming his way back into good graces. 00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:51.750 I think you're right in that, you know, Putin 00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:53.890 and Matviyenko, they're both from St. Petersburg. 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.880 They're both about the same age, 73 or so. I 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.220 think they're pretty simpatico. Let's move on 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:06.759 to Europe. So they're kind of, I'll start with 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.319 the Europe reports. There's the Europe that we 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:12.839 don't like. That's the EU, Ukraine, Germany. 00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:15.519 And then there was a segment on the Europe that 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.259 we like. And that was, of course, Charles de 00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:21.079 Gaulle's France and his visit. to the Soviet 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.140 Union in 1966 that I'll talk about later in the 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:27.799 program. A now long -running feature on Russian 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:29.920 news that we've discussed quite a bit is the 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.740 conflict in Ukrainian -Polish relations due to 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:38.160 Zelensky's honoring of World War II fascist nationalists 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.099 like Andrei Melnik. And this week, they added 00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.160 to the list another Nazi collaborator, Miroslav 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:49.509 Semchich. who was made a hero in 2022 by Zelensky 00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:53.470 and actually lived to be 100 years old. Then 00:18:53.470 --> 00:18:55.170 there was a fair amount of old footage again 00:18:55.170 --> 00:18:59.589 of him. But these actions, Chris, you know, I 00:18:59.589 --> 00:19:02.410 got to say, I was a little bit poo -pooing, you 00:19:02.410 --> 00:19:05.009 know, the whole Melnik thing two or three months 00:19:05.009 --> 00:19:08.869 ago. But you're right. These are creating real 00:19:08.869 --> 00:19:12.450 and growing problems for Poland and Ukraine. 00:19:13.069 --> 00:19:15.349 What Vesti was featuring in this segment was 00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:18.250 the number of anti -Ukrainian migrant demonstrations 00:19:18.250 --> 00:19:22.309 is growing, as are the number of physical attacks 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:25.470 on Ukrainian migrants. They showed a number of 00:19:25.470 --> 00:19:27.609 these attacks, including on, you know, public 00:19:27.609 --> 00:19:32.809 transportation, just in public, just dudes going 00:19:32.809 --> 00:19:35.529 out hunting anybody who speaks Ukrainian or has 00:19:35.529 --> 00:19:40.599 a Ukrainian accent. Now, Vesti reports. that 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.579 the physical attacks on Ukrainian migrants in 00:19:43.579 --> 00:19:47.640 Poland are up 30%, and supposedly now 70 % of 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.380 Poles have negative views of Zelensky. Now, we 00:19:51.380 --> 00:19:54.180 always have to take a grain of salt regarding 00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:57.359 VST statistics in general, and that they don't 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.779 indicate actually, you know, from when to when, 00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:02.859 for example, the attacks on migrants increased 00:20:02.859 --> 00:20:06.140 30%. And frankly, Chris and I do not have the 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.690 time actually to verify the veracity. of these 00:20:09.690 --> 00:20:12.569 claims, but they kind of ring true. Also featured 00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:15.829 the Europe they don't like. The European Union 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:19.529 last week did pass the 21st packet of anti -Russian 00:20:19.529 --> 00:20:22.009 sanctions and has actually turned out to be one 00:20:22.009 --> 00:20:25.150 of their toughest sanctions packets. You know, 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:27.730 but the propaganda line from Russia is essentially 00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:30.509 the Europeans are undermining their own interests, 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:32.970 their own well -being, and nobody more so than 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:36.710 Germany. with Merz's rapid militarization plans, 00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:40.130 their support for Ukraine amidst a very stagnant 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:43.289 economy in Germany. The VST featured this week 00:20:43.289 --> 00:20:47.289 with the usual Mikhail Antonov heavy dose of 00:20:47.289 --> 00:20:51.130 schadenfreude when he talks about Germany. He's 00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:55.009 a German speaker, yes, Chris? Yes, yeah. He's 00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:57.690 kind of like Putin in that regard, and he's very, 00:20:57.769 --> 00:21:01.380 very sharp. But BMW announced plans to lay off 00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:04.140 8 ,000 workers next year. Of course, this is 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:07.579 on top of Volkswagen's massive layoffs this year. 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.559 The general travails of the vaunted German car 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.160 industry where China is literally eating their 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.279 lunch and Merz's authority is melting. I mean, 00:21:17.299 --> 00:21:19.380 this is a continued theme we've been discussing 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:22.319 for seven months now. But now they're portraying 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:24.220 him almost as a clown. I mean, they actually 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:28.019 featured an old German slapstick routine. I generally 00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:30.720 don't associate German with slapstick routines, 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.119 but this was a pretty funny one. And they were 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.779 just kind of implying that Merz can't do anything 00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:39.180 right. Anything that he touches is going to go 00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:41.819 wrong. And they're asking the question, will 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.380 he resign? Will his coalition collapse? I mean, 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.089 we just saw. Mr. Starmer in Great Britain resigned 00:21:49.089 --> 00:21:51.970 last month. And we know what Moscow would like 00:21:51.970 --> 00:21:54.549 to see. They want to see his coalition break 00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:57.430 up. And there'll be local elections this September 00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:00.069 that should provide a good indicator of just 00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:03.410 how much trouble Mertz is in. Before I turn, 00:22:03.490 --> 00:22:06.369 Chris, to the Charles de Gaulle nostalgia piece, 00:22:06.750 --> 00:22:09.190 why don't you take, let's hear your take on the 00:22:09.190 --> 00:22:12.410 Europe report, including and especially the bizarre 00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:16.059 episode. on the spanish moroccan border last 00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:20.099 week a story seemingly tailor -made for vsd and 00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:23.319 fox news if i could first on germany of course 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:28.059 there's hegel the dialectics germany uh is not 00:22:28.059 --> 00:22:32.900 trading with russia it's not as cut off the gas 00:22:32.900 --> 00:22:37.519 natural gas oil but this is hurting their industries 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.059 It increases their production costs. Yeah, my 00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:47.460 feeling is that one reason why Putin acts like 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:51.259 he does, especially from starting in 2014, is 00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:54.039 because he knows Germany's weak. Germany's weak 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:57.680 because it's not trading with Russia. So, you 00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.859 know, there's a lot of contradictions there. 00:23:00.019 --> 00:23:02.720 It would have turned out that if we had Nord 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:06.500 Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2, that Germany would 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:09.170 be in a much stronger position. position and 00:23:09.170 --> 00:23:12.529 Russia would be more intimidated. It's one of 00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:14.509 those contradictions, but it's something we'll 00:23:14.509 --> 00:23:17.670 never know, I guess. But it is worrying that 00:23:17.670 --> 00:23:20.569 basically China's going to be taking over the 00:23:20.569 --> 00:23:23.950 world auto industry. Again, we see China the 00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:28.250 beneficiary of these events. Turning to what 00:23:28.250 --> 00:23:32.700 you mentioned, the very strange episode. with 00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:37.640 Moroccan migrants, I don't know, we can say invading 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:43.490 the Spanish enclave, Cueta. So this goes back, 00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:46.769 of course, way, way back again. Our historical 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:49.950 discourse, this goes back to the age of Spanish 00:23:49.950 --> 00:23:54.349 conquest, 1580. The Spaniards, they took from 00:23:54.349 --> 00:23:59.210 Africa, Cueta, and made it a little colony. I 00:23:59.210 --> 00:24:03.690 guess it's 18 square kilometers. On the tip of 00:24:03.690 --> 00:24:06.849 the African continent, across the water from 00:24:06.849 --> 00:24:09.230 Spain. But it's one of these legacy, of course, 00:24:09.289 --> 00:24:13.369 California, we know Spanish colonialism, you 00:24:13.369 --> 00:24:16.549 know, the missions and things. Yes, we do. And 00:24:16.549 --> 00:24:19.349 it's not, you know, not always very popular, 00:24:19.349 --> 00:24:21.750 you know, especially I see here in California, 00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:26.029 the Spanish period is increasingly depicted in 00:24:26.029 --> 00:24:29.710 harsher and darker tones. I'm not sure how happy 00:24:29.710 --> 00:24:33.269 the Moroccans are. with having that enclave there. 00:24:33.630 --> 00:24:36.869 I know my Moroccan students are not very happy 00:24:36.869 --> 00:24:41.230 with Spain or France. Of course, this fits in 00:24:41.230 --> 00:24:44.390 well with the traditional Russian narrative of 00:24:44.390 --> 00:24:47.769 Europe is collapsing from the foreign invasion. 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.339 And we need to stand together for traditional 00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:56.880 values and things. On Saturday, Vesti showed 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.019 a conspiracy theory where the Moroccans got mad 00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:05.109 at Spain that did this on purpose. to bring down 00:25:05.109 --> 00:25:08.230 the Spanish government. I'm not sure if that's 00:25:08.230 --> 00:25:11.490 true, but I do know that Putin is going to be 00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:14.390 focused on this and he's going to see these kind 00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:17.089 of things as a weapon to punish you. Oh, absolutely. 00:25:17.369 --> 00:25:20.750 This is a real weak link in the so -called EU 00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:24.210 armor that eventually, you know, La Coyta is 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:28.450 part of Schengen Europe. Yeah. And 60 ,000 was 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:30.849 the count on the number of, I mean, we've all 00:25:30.849 --> 00:25:34.529 seen it on the news. Just streaming across the 00:25:34.529 --> 00:25:38.029 border. It's total chaos. It is perfect for the 00:25:38.029 --> 00:25:42.049 narrative of basically that the white people 00:25:42.049 --> 00:25:45.869 are being overwhelmed by people of color in Europe. 00:25:45.970 --> 00:25:49.529 And, you know, Russia is standing on the forefront 00:25:49.529 --> 00:25:52.509 of, you know, holding off the unwashed masses. 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:55.809 I don't know if we will find out actually who 00:25:55.809 --> 00:26:01.210 catalyzed. this stream of moroccans across the 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:04.170 border i mean they had to be certainly viesti 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:07.549 implied that the moroccan border authorities 00:26:07.549 --> 00:26:11.170 basically green -lighted them they let they let 00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:13.470 them they let them come through but i don't know 00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:17.150 it was a it seems like a very very bizarre episode 00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:20.549 and then as you said we're seeing this uh increasing 00:26:20.549 --> 00:26:24.450 rift between uh poland and uh ukraine It's been 00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:27.390 going on for centuries. It's looking like an 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:31.089 awfully big own goal, big mistake on Zelensky's 00:26:31.089 --> 00:26:33.210 part. You know, just going out of his way to 00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:36.269 honor figures that, yes, are regarded as Ukrainian 00:26:36.269 --> 00:26:38.750 nationalists in Ukraine, but they have such a 00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:41.329 checkered past, and it's coming back to bite 00:26:41.329 --> 00:26:43.589 them in the butt, it would appear. Yeah, so, 00:26:43.670 --> 00:26:45.829 and then there's the Europe that we like. Charles 00:26:45.829 --> 00:26:48.680 de Gaulle famously authored the term. Kind of 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:50.839 a strange term, Europe from the Atlantic to the 00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:55.259 Urals. But it's true that there is a signpost 00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:59.259 as you enter Western Siberia in the Urals that 00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:02.460 points in one direction and says Asia, and the 00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:06.200 other direction says Europa, to Europe. Anyway, 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:09.200 de Gaulle made an extensive trip to the USSR 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.079 in 1966. And this is the first time I really 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.339 actually heard more about this trip. And I was 00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:19.559 really struck. buy it. It carried, and I think 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.980 continues to carry, major symbolic and real significance 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:26.500 in Soviet history. This was two decades after 00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:29.559 the devastation of World War II. The Soviet Union 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.960 was viewed within and without as a rising superpower 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.680 at that time, which is accurate. And the visit 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.140 of the last living titanic World War II leader 00:27:42.140 --> 00:27:47.500 to the USSR signified that. FDR died in 45, Stalin 00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:51.960 died in 53, Churchill died in 65. You know, the 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.339 French resistance leader de Gaulle was the last 00:27:54.339 --> 00:27:57.440 man standing. And of course, he had rescued France 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.420 and establishing the Fifth Republic and had been 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.740 their president for its first, well, up to that 00:28:02.740 --> 00:28:05.000 point, first eight years. And he would do so 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.720 for 10 plus years. It was also a major step forward 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.259 in the beginning of European -Soviet detente, 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:14.710 which de Gaulle was very much promoting. This 00:28:14.710 --> 00:28:18.130 was also just after France withdrew from military 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:21.450 cooperation with NATO in defiance to the U .S. 00:28:21.450 --> 00:28:25.009 war in Vietnam, which was extremely unpopular 00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:28.809 in Western Europe. And to signify the positive 00:28:28.809 --> 00:28:32.809 trends in Soviet economy and society, de Gaulle 00:28:32.809 --> 00:28:36.470 visited the Siberian city of Novosibirsk. that 00:28:36.470 --> 00:28:39.690 had experienced explosive growth in the last 00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:43.150 two decades from kind of a sleepy cow town to 00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:46.029 an industrial powerhouse of more than a million 00:28:46.029 --> 00:28:49.410 people. And the truly extraordinary founding 00:28:49.410 --> 00:28:52.829 of Academ Garadoc, which sort of literally means 00:28:52.829 --> 00:28:55.970 sort of like academic suburb. But it was an elite 00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:59.450 intellectual and scientific hub that especially 00:28:59.450 --> 00:29:03.349 impressed Charles Charles de Gaulle. And it was 00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:09.180 a very significant. in Soviet history, where 00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:12.339 there's some real luminaries, both in the social 00:29:12.339 --> 00:29:14.960 sciences and the natural and physical sciences 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:19.980 and humanities as well. So de Gaulle was shown 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:24.259 triumphantly getting driven around while standing 00:29:24.259 --> 00:29:28.339 in his convertible limo. De Gaulle was very tall, 00:29:28.579 --> 00:29:34.240 and huge crowds are wildly welcoming him in Novosibirsk. 00:29:34.829 --> 00:29:38.809 It's really like hero adulation, almost. You 00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:41.750 know, Vesti claims that there were 400 ,000, 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:44.569 like, you know, half the population of Novosibirsk 00:29:44.569 --> 00:29:47.329 nearly was out in the streets welcoming Charles 00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:51.730 de Gaulle. Interestingly, Vesti... contrasts 00:29:51.730 --> 00:29:54.809 it kind of momentarily with the tragic image 00:29:54.809 --> 00:29:58.789 of JFK getting shot in a similar vehicle in Dallas 00:29:58.789 --> 00:30:01.410 less than three years previous. And then Vesti 00:30:01.410 --> 00:30:04.369 showed a younger de Gaulle visiting Stalin in 00:30:04.369 --> 00:30:09.509 1944, who genuinely looked quite happy. I mean, 00:30:09.589 --> 00:30:12.170 Stalin doesn't normally look, this is about as 00:30:12.170 --> 00:30:15.109 happy as I've seen Stalin, actually. And, you 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:17.150 know, welcoming the great French resistance leader. 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.039 But the conclusion of the section in the segment 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.640 in the program is that the legacy of de Gaulle 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.700 has been fully demolished by Macron, who provides 00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:31.220 targeting assistance to Ukraine to attract to 00:30:31.220 --> 00:30:35.240 attack Russia. And the section concludes the 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:38.420 segment concludes de Gaulle was the Europe we 00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:42.200 liked. And that's the segment. I really enjoyed 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.740 that one. It was one of two. Sort of Soviet nostalgia 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:48.920 segments. I'll come to the last one at the end. 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.720 Anyway, let me turn it to you. Vesti, they, in 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.579 general, the Russian propaganda machine, they 00:30:55.579 --> 00:31:00.299 love de Gaulle's grandson. And it is Pierre de 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.519 Gaulle, who's a kind of right winger. And he's 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:09.779 a prominent figure in Russia. He's constantly 00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:13.299 visiting Russia and the Russian news. And they 00:31:13.299 --> 00:31:16.819 promote him as, you know, this is the true France. 00:31:17.420 --> 00:31:20.140 And this is what we need to go back to. And so 00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:23.980 I'm sure he might have been helping out with 00:31:23.980 --> 00:31:28.039 this. Pierre de Gaulle. Is Pierre a significant 00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:31.660 figure in the French conservative right? I don't 00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:34.099 think so. I think he's mainly in the Russian 00:31:34.099 --> 00:31:37.740 propaganda. For most French people, this Russian 00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:41.940 propaganda is toxic. So this marginalizes you. 00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:46.980 But yeah, there's a page from a bygone era. In 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:49.680 the 1960s, there was this idea of convergence 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:54.359 theory in Western Europe. would gradually become 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.920 more planned, more technocratic. The scientists 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.339 would take over, or the Soviet Union would become 00:32:01.339 --> 00:32:05.700 democratic, and they would converge, meld together. 00:32:06.019 --> 00:32:09.019 There was Marcuse, he came up with this. Herbert 00:32:09.019 --> 00:32:13.349 Marcuse. Yeah, we're going to converge. And Jean 00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:16.289 -Paul Sartre, the famous existentialist, I mean, 00:32:16.309 --> 00:32:20.369 he had these way over the top praises, embarrassing 00:32:20.369 --> 00:32:26.309 praises, the Soviet Union. The only milk we can 00:32:26.309 --> 00:32:30.769 drink comes from the collective farms. It's the 00:32:30.769 --> 00:32:34.990 only milk. I mean, it's definitely a stain on 00:32:34.990 --> 00:32:38.809 his legacy. Sartre was a legendary fellow traveler. 00:32:39.500 --> 00:32:42.619 Yeah, they put him in the collective farms and 00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:48.240 he was just a stooge. But yeah, it's a path not 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:54.720 taken, something that never worked out. I think 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.519 they're right that Macron is not popular, but 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.680 that they're right. But the Russia, my advice 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.019 if you're Russian is just stay out of French 00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:07.799 politics. The less they say, the better. Agreed. 00:33:10.549 --> 00:33:13.150 Chris, there are a couple of stories toward the 00:33:13.150 --> 00:33:15.509 end. Why don't you take the lead on for our listeners? 00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:18.410 There was this strange beating in Ekaterinburg 00:33:18.410 --> 00:33:20.450 of the director of the Agricultural Institute. 00:33:20.650 --> 00:33:23.609 And then what struck me as a major China story. 00:33:24.140 --> 00:33:26.599 They feature some, you know, beloved academic 00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:31.299 agriculturalist who was beaten by local thugs. 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:33.960 And at first, you know, I thought, again, it's 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:36.660 going to be, you know, Pavel Durov and Telegram 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:40.279 and the Ukrainians did it. It's, I think, the 00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:43.579 first story for some time where there's no Ukraine. 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:46.180 There's no Ukraine. There's no Americans. This 00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:50.200 is local, a local story, local crime. We're almost, 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.539 they've almost eliminated that, right? So all 00:33:52.539 --> 00:33:54.980 the crime is. from Ukraine. You know, it's like 00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:57.900 Trotsky. Everything, all the crime is the Trotskyites, 00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.759 right? They're showing, you know, it's a local 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.680 corruption. There's a kind of illegal farming, 00:34:05.019 --> 00:34:08.820 illegal dumping, and this farmer got wise to 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:13.059 it, and he was beat up by the criminal gang who 00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:16.599 was connected to the cops. And, you know, now 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:19.900 they're looking into it. The guy died of a heart 00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:23.719 attack. Yeah, yeah. From the beating. What I 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.360 think they're saying is, of course, that if we 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.739 keep this war going, we're going to see these 00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:35.059 levels of violence grow, these levels of violence 00:34:35.059 --> 00:34:38.119 in society. This was last year you saw these 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:41.079 kind of reports all the time. And we know these 00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:44.599 things are going on. Russia is becoming much 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.760 more violent. There's constant beatings and fighting 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.179 and things. And I think that's what they're getting 00:34:52.179 --> 00:34:55.300 at there. You'd only expect this with the return 00:34:55.300 --> 00:34:57.960 home of hundreds of thousands of traumatized 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.059 veterans from the Ukraine war would contribute 00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:06.800 to a significant increase in violence at large 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.340 in Russian society. Yeah, you're right. Interesting 00:35:09.340 --> 00:35:12.579 that they run this story now. What about the 00:35:12.579 --> 00:35:16.269 China story? Yeah. So this is another technological 00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:20.989 marvel in China story. China can do no wrong. 00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:24.869 Everything China does is wonderful. And, you 00:35:24.869 --> 00:35:28.590 know, it's just a place of wonders and creativity 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:32.949 and greatness. And I mean, it just Russian news 00:35:32.949 --> 00:35:35.710 just seems to kind of bow down to China. I don't 00:35:35.710 --> 00:35:39.369 I can't recall a negative story about China for 00:35:39.369 --> 00:35:42.989 10, 20 years now. And everything is wonderful. 00:35:43.849 --> 00:35:46.070 Everything there is wonder, but they do no wrong. 00:35:46.489 --> 00:35:50.329 And here, you know, it's another wonder. China's 00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:54.269 completing, I guess it's the, it's a little complicated 00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.010 story, but they're creating what they call the 00:35:57.010 --> 00:36:02.269 Artificial Stun Project. So this is a, they're 00:36:02.269 --> 00:36:07.289 creating this huge magnet that's going to contain 00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:12.389 basically a nuclear explosion reactor. Yeah. 00:36:12.449 --> 00:36:17.130 Massive explosion, like 100 million degrees of 00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:20.369 heat. Yeah. And so they're saying this is a revolution. 00:36:20.449 --> 00:36:25.010 But the problem that I could not find any verification 00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:28.889 of this, it's mainly announced on Instagram and 00:36:28.889 --> 00:36:32.190 Chinese pages and things. The Chinese, they're 00:36:32.190 --> 00:36:34.849 often, of course, they do have a lot of technological 00:36:34.849 --> 00:36:38.409 prowess and advancing in many areas, but they 00:36:38.409 --> 00:36:42.739 also weigh over self -promote. And often they 00:36:42.739 --> 00:36:46.480 do reckless things. I would definitely stay away 00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:52.400 from that vicinity. The Institute for Physics 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:56.579 and Plasma. Yeah. It sounds like a very reputable 00:36:56.579 --> 00:37:00.739 institution. Well, we'll see. I wouldn't want 00:37:00.739 --> 00:37:03.900 to go near there. No, I'd rather. And if I could, 00:37:04.099 --> 00:37:07.800 one of the cleroid vesti. They made a big deal 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.699 out of this. At the very end, they give this 00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:15.380 kind of special segment. And Dmitry Medvedev, 00:37:15.380 --> 00:37:19.900 he comes and he says there will be no general 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:24.420 mobilization. No general mobilization. Yeah. 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:27.679 So that was on VSD during the week? No, the very 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:29.980 end of the program. The very end of the program, 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.119 they had this little special little segment. 00:37:32.750 --> 00:37:36.030 Almost unnoticeable. I think they edited it in 00:37:36.030 --> 00:37:40.300 at the very end. They had Dmitry Medvedev. He 00:37:40.300 --> 00:37:44.619 announces no general mobilization. It's all Western 00:37:44.619 --> 00:37:48.619 lies. Most analysts or many analysts are saying 00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:51.340 that after the elections, there's going to be 00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:55.079 a general mobilization. But Medvedev said, we're 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:58.480 not animals. We don't need to do this. We're 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.420 not Ukraine. But I don't know. It's very strange 00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:03.639 that this has come from Medvedev. He's not a 00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:08.489 very authoritative figure in Russia. That is 00:38:08.489 --> 00:38:10.650 strange. Well, we'll kind of come back to that 00:38:10.650 --> 00:38:13.389 with my dog that didn't bark. The other Soviet 00:38:13.389 --> 00:38:15.409 nostalgia story before we get to the dogs that 00:38:15.409 --> 00:38:17.590 did not bark. So, as some of you know, I'm a 00:38:17.590 --> 00:38:20.769 sports fanatic, and I'll conclude with the other 00:38:20.769 --> 00:38:22.969 brilliant Soviet nostalgia story. And this, of 00:38:22.969 --> 00:38:25.170 course, was the defeat of the U .S. Olympic basketball 00:38:25.170 --> 00:38:29.840 team for the gold medal at Munich. in 1972. And 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.199 they ran the story because of the recent death 00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:35.719 of their talented power forward, Ivan Udeshka, 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.320 who was the catalyst for the, so he was the catalyst 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:41.380 for the story. He was a major figure in Soviet 00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:43.500 and actually post -Soviet basketball, I think, 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:45.559 up until his death. You know, this was really, 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.559 in 1972, one of the greatest international upsets 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.320 in history, perhaps in the Olympics only to be 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:54.179 surpassed by the 1980, you know, U .S. hockey 00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:58.519 team defeat. of the USSR at Lake Placid in the 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.679 Miracle on Ice game. But the 1972 game had a 00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:06.980 very, very bizarre finish that for myself as 00:39:06.980 --> 00:39:10.360 a 13 -year -old rising middle school hoopster 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:14.239 made me very angry. So essentially what happened 00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:17.340 was the final buzzer went off with the United 00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:21.559 States ahead by one point, 49 to 48. But the 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:26.940 controversy was created by the Soviet claim that 00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:30.800 they had called for a timeout before the final 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.980 two free throws were shot by Doug Collins, later 00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:38.300 became a star for the Philadelphia 76ers. They 00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:41.760 basically ran the end of the game three times. 00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:45.099 And so the first two times the game ended, the 00:39:45.099 --> 00:39:47.679 United States won. But then in the third time 00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:51.110 they ran it, the Soviet Union won. And that was 00:39:51.110 --> 00:39:54.989 the end of the story. So it was a huge moment 00:39:54.989 --> 00:39:57.849 for the Soviet Union. The United States at the 00:39:57.849 --> 00:40:01.010 time was 63 -0. They had won the first seven 00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:04.489 gold medal games at basketball in the Summer 00:40:04.489 --> 00:40:10.030 Olympics. And that was it. So it was sort of 00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:15.369 fun for me to relive that episode. All right, 00:40:15.409 --> 00:40:17.739 let's turn to the dogs that did not bark. Well, 00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:19.960 once again, I kind of tipped my hat on the big 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.099 one up front on the near silence on the U .S. 00:40:22.099 --> 00:40:24.619 war in Iran. But let's leave that aside because 00:40:24.619 --> 00:40:26.920 I have another. It's actually related. I did 00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:29.019 not see that mid -bidget announcement. At any 00:40:29.019 --> 00:40:32.599 rate, last week, Anna Putina Sibylova, Putin's 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:35.139 cousin or niece, depending on whether you're 00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:38.380 American or Russian, she stated very forthrightly 00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:42.280 that Russia should close its border to citizens 00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:46.590 going abroad. And she concluded this statement 00:40:46.590 --> 00:40:51.349 saying, we need patriots. We don't need, you 00:40:51.349 --> 00:40:54.610 know, Russians. And so as the deputy minister 00:40:54.610 --> 00:40:58.230 of defense, it could be easy to read this as 00:40:58.230 --> 00:41:01.690 a preface to another call for conscription after 00:41:01.690 --> 00:41:03.809 the September elections that you were referring 00:41:03.809 --> 00:41:08.050 to, Chris. And unlike four years ago, Anna Putina 00:41:08.050 --> 00:41:10.849 Sibylova is saying that Russia should not let 00:41:10.849 --> 00:41:14.719 those who do not want to serve the country. leave 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.780 the country. So it's a pretty intimidating statement, 00:41:18.980 --> 00:41:21.840 but it wasn't carried by Biesty. There was an 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:24.840 interesting Wall Street Journal article on Russia's 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:27.780 Russian recruiting problems and the massive human 00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:30.619 rights violations they're committing in their 00:41:30.619 --> 00:41:34.360 recruiting. And it's sort of, it's mirror imaged, 00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.559 of course, how Vesti portrays Ukrainian recruiting. 00:41:37.820 --> 00:41:39.780 You know, they're always strong arming these 00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:42.219 guys. They're beating them up on the sidewalks 00:41:42.219 --> 00:41:44.559 and throwing them into vans and taking them away. 00:41:44.989 --> 00:41:47.550 You know, when in Russia, that not surprisingly, 00:41:47.670 --> 00:41:52.010 BST never reports about Russian recruiting practices. 00:41:52.409 --> 00:41:54.730 That's interesting. It'd be interesting to see 00:41:54.730 --> 00:41:56.809 what happens after these elections and whether 00:41:56.809 --> 00:42:00.250 Putin does call for another round of conscription. 00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:03.820 Yeah, Sivilova, she's becoming more and more 00:42:03.820 --> 00:42:06.739 important. She's a little too blunt. She says 00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:09.739 what she means as they've just basically taken 00:42:09.739 --> 00:42:13.159 her off Vesti and, you know, trying to put her 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:14.900 in the back. I think that's why they had the 00:42:14.900 --> 00:42:17.940 Medvedev. I'm sure that's why they had the Medvedev 00:42:17.940 --> 00:42:21.619 segment was to, you know, clamp down that talk. 00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:24.880 But we know, yeah, there's an open debate or 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.320 not. There's a closed debate in the Kremlin. 00:42:29.680 --> 00:42:33.199 about should they have a general draft or something. 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:37.000 And then interestingly, in the West, we have 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.900 a Garry Kasparov who's saying that Europe should 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:43.320 just deny Russian men visas, should not let them 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.699 leave Russia. So, I mean, you could have the 00:42:45.699 --> 00:42:47.800 situation where the Russian government's not 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:51.980 issuing visas and, you know, and Europe's not 00:42:51.980 --> 00:42:54.619 letting them come. Anyway, it's hard to tell. 00:42:54.989 --> 00:42:58.630 That seems strange that Kasparov is calling for. 00:42:58.929 --> 00:43:00.969 I mean, these, you know, these are the people 00:43:00.969 --> 00:43:02.949 that Putin would consider Nindashi. These are 00:43:02.949 --> 00:43:05.170 not ours. Let them leave the country. That's 00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:10.150 what he did back in September 2022. You know, 00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:13.130 you don't like Russia? F you. You can go. If 00:43:13.130 --> 00:43:15.630 they're not allowed to leave Russia, then that 00:43:15.630 --> 00:43:18.849 would be condemning them to a very unpleasant 00:43:18.849 --> 00:43:22.420 reality in getting drafted. So I can't agree 00:43:22.420 --> 00:43:25.619 with Kasparov on that one. Me neither. But yeah, 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:28.940 apparently their draft, of course, under the 00:43:28.940 --> 00:43:31.559 Soviets, you had to have, to leave the country, 00:43:31.760 --> 00:43:37.079 you had to have a government approval to leave 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.079 it all. And they're saying, apparently there's 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:44.420 drafts of legislation to bring that type of system 00:43:44.420 --> 00:43:47.500 back. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that 00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:50.059 were to happen. All trend lines are pointing 00:43:50.059 --> 00:43:52.619 in that direction. Yeah, it would be a very sad 00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:55.320 thing. It would be. If I could mention, this 00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.539 is last week, Nikkei Asia, they reported that 00:43:59.539 --> 00:44:05.699 China is again banning the use of critical metals. 00:44:07.100 --> 00:44:11.280 to several German industries, including Germany's 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.360 largest defense contractor, Ryan Metal, which 00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.820 is key to Germany's effort to rearm Ukraine. 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:23.119 So I do wonder what this is about. China's trying 00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:25.619 to, you know, behind the scenes, trying to help 00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:29.139 Russia out in this way, you know, limit the production 00:44:29.139 --> 00:44:32.320 of drones, you know, through, you know, if they 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.900 cut off the critical metals. That is interesting. 00:44:35.059 --> 00:44:37.760 It would not surprise me that China is doing 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.519 that. Of course, in 2010, they cut off critical 00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:44.599 minerals to Japan in response to a spat over 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:48.139 Japanese unhappiness of them building these islands 00:44:48.139 --> 00:44:50.920 in the South China Sea. And of course, in December 00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.079 of 25, to welcome the Trump administration, they 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:58.539 banned antimony and another critical material 00:44:58.539 --> 00:45:00.739 of the United States. It's astounding to me, 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:03.139 Chris, how all of us, all the rest of the world, 00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:05.599 has been asleep at the wheel for the last 30 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:08.280 years and let China get in such a commanding 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.659 position where they dominate 70 % of the mining 00:45:11.659 --> 00:45:14.340 of critical minerals that are essential for commercial 00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:16.519 high technology as well as defense technology, 00:45:16.699 --> 00:45:20.719 and 90 plus percent of the processing of these 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.059 minerals. I've been doing a fair amount of research 00:45:23.059 --> 00:45:25.619 on this over the summer and preparing a paper 00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:29.900 on critical minerals in U .S.-Central Asian cooperation. 00:45:30.650 --> 00:45:33.550 That would be a big assist to... Yeah, I think 00:45:33.550 --> 00:45:37.210 the first case where they're really tipping the 00:45:37.210 --> 00:45:41.309 scales in Russia's favor. We know, we talk about 00:45:41.309 --> 00:45:43.929 this all the time, how unhappy Russia is with 00:45:43.929 --> 00:45:48.650 the German remilitarization plans and all over 00:45:48.650 --> 00:45:51.849 Europe, how they're taking the lead in supporting... 00:45:52.700 --> 00:45:55.980 Ukraine with military hardware and artillery, 00:45:56.260 --> 00:45:59.739 et cetera. And Rheinmetall is the kind of poster 00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:03.159 child for German remilitarization plans. Interesting 00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:06.219 that Vesti has not reported on that. Or Western 00:46:06.219 --> 00:46:09.420 news. I don't know. It seems like more and more 00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:12.440 we're seeing the biggest stories just don't get 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:18.030 reported anymore. Yeah, it's true. That's one 00:46:18.030 --> 00:46:21.190 of the reasons to watch Russian news because 00:46:21.190 --> 00:46:23.710 you can see what stories are not getting reported 00:46:23.710 --> 00:46:26.889 in the Western press, despite their considerable 00:46:26.889 --> 00:46:29.610 significance. Well, it's time for us to wrap 00:46:29.610 --> 00:46:33.389 up another episode of Russia Decoded. Chris, 00:46:33.510 --> 00:46:35.730 it's been a fascinating discussion with you, 00:46:35.750 --> 00:46:39.769 as it always is, about all things Russia. You 00:46:39.769 --> 00:46:41.849 know, in the baseball world, we call this time 00:46:41.849 --> 00:46:45.280 of year the dog days of summer. Uh, I feel like 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.400 it's the dog days of, of Viesti on vacation. 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.320 So thanks, as always, to our listeners. We'd 00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:57.860 love to hear from you. We're on LinkedIn, very 00:46:57.860 --> 00:47:01.619 active. And also we have an email address, russiadecoded 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:06.059 at cftni .org. And most of all, we want to thank 00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:08.139 our producer back in Washington, Jordan Henry 00:47:08.139 --> 00:47:09.960 of the Center for the National Interest, who 00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:13.099 always makes us sound better than we are. So 00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:15.039 everybody have a great week and we look forward 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:16.619 to talking to you next week.