Hello, and welcome to another episode of In My
Experience with yours truly, Christine DiGinto.
This podcast is a space where I speak from lived
experience. The moments that shaped me, challenged
me, and changed the way that I understand myself
in the world. The awakenings, the breakdowns,
the moments that cracked me open, asked me to
stay present, be embodied, and be honest with
myself. I share my stories not to persuade or
define truth for anyone else, but to offer perspective,
to explore the gray areas we don't often have
language for, to slow things down and listen
more closely to what's happening beneath the
surface. You'll hear solo episodes where I reflect
on my own initiations, spiritual gifts, and the
systems that try to define me. and conversations
with guests who have walked strange, beautiful,
and sometimes painful paths of their own and
come back with wisdom to share with us. I invite
you to take what resonates, leave the rest, and
trust your own experience as valid. Thank you
for being here. This is In My Experience. Hello,
I'm Christine and here we are again. in another
episode of In My Experience. Today, I'm sitting
down with a friend from school, Bobby Eppelman,
to talk about the messy, meaningful, complicated
path of becoming real in our lives. Bobby is
a speaker, a teacher, a husband and father, and
someone who has walked a long road from achievement
-based identity and alcoholism into vulnerability.
therapy, and connection. Before we dive in, I
want to say that this conversation happens inside
mutual consent. We are sharing our lived experiences,
our perspectives, and what we've learned along
the way. Nothing in here is advice or prescription,
just reflection. In this episode, I talk about
my spiritual awakening and the years of unwinding
that followed, including recovery. after harm
in a former business partnership and relationship.
Bobby shares how redefining success changed the
way that he leads parents and shows up in the
world. We talk about masculinity, crying, emotional
vocabulary, and why the quote, I'm great is often
the least honest sentence in the English language.
If you are someone learning how to be seen without
armor, this one will meet you right where you're
at. Let's get into it. I'm so thankful for you
to take the time to talk with us. And I'm very
excited to have this conversation. I see that
you're changing directions with what you're focusing
on. You're becoming more aligned as a motivational
speaker. Yeah, I guess I don't use the term motivational
speaker, but what I do is... I get motivated
when you speak, so I'm just saying. I'm happy
to hear that. I say I inspire high performers
to reclaim their lives by embracing vulnerability.
I love that. And the word inspire is the big
one because I feel like when you inspire a person,
you're giving them or you're putting them in
the driver's seat. i'm not helping them i i mean
that's part of the process but i'm inspiring
yeah yeah being a a guide and a leader in the
sense that you don't lead i i think it's interesting
and this is random but also it applies recently
i learned that like alpha like the alpha male
what they determined scientifically as like studying
wolves being an alpha wolf they were wrong the
the scientists who coined that phrase actually
spent the rest of his career trying to say actually
i was wrong that's not how it worked but like
the trajectory was just like you know one way
so yeah it's so interesting there are so many
things that i learned recently like phrases that
actually mean the opposite and it's interesting
it's just it's fascinating to me how things can
be taken out of context. A little bit before
we started recording here, I told Bobby sort
of the way that this works and how I tell everyone,
if you ever feel like you need to take a break
or you need to use the restroom, something happens,
no worries, I can edit things. And he was just
like, yeah, I don't need that. Whatever comes
out, comes out, I'm me right now. And I was like,
I love that so much, but we didn't capture it
on video. So Bobby, tell me a little bit about
what... has been going on for you in recent times
and how you got here. Yeah, so I'll give you
the whole rundown. For most of my life, achievement,
it wasn't just something that I did. It was who
I was. I was an All -American athlete. I was
disciplined. I was like the guy. If the game
came down to the wire, it was on me. And if something
felt off, I never talked about it. I just got
the job done. I worked harder. And for a long
time, that worked. But when sports ended for
me, the structure, it made that achievement,
like how it felt safe before, that all disappeared.
So I ended up doubling down. I just stayed busy
in life. I just stayed productive. And because
achievement had become the way that I functioned
and felt secure, You know, it was the way that
I stayed ahead of not having to feel anything.
Eventually, that achievement, it just stopped
working. And I couldn't outrun it. I couldn't
outwork it at that point. And my mental health
had reached a point where I was really suffering.
And I realized I couldn't keep doing it alone.
And, you know, the boldest decision I ended up
making in that process was just not to push harder,
but to start opening up to people. I found a
therapist. I started opening up to friends and
family about just how bad things had gotten.
And I really leaned on my wife when I couldn't
lean on myself, which I wasn't used to doing.
I wasn't used to having someone that I could
be vulnerable around. And in doing that, that
is how I feel I really chose to take charge of
my life. And I decided to live at that point.
It's so beautiful that you're describing the
vulnerability you shared with your wife. And
I find it so, so beautiful and necessary. The
combined. energy and effort like when you truly
have a partnership and the masculine and feminine
aspects and that is like how it's supposed to
be there's men are supposed to be vulnerable
and it's such a sin had the programming that
you all have received and how people a lot of
men process internally things that are going
on with themselves and little do they know how
they're not alone but nobody talks men don't
talk about their feelings and it's sad I'm so
thankful that you do and you took that majorly
courageous step to open up and found the connection
and joy and are able to like you know hold others
in that now too it's so beautiful yeah coming
back to what you said about the the alpha wolf
or or even the alpha male we we take on these
roles as people through our lives and i know
as a male uh being strong and being aggressive
and being you know taking charge and initiative
that's just not who i ever was in that way and
i think we're coming into a time now where men
can be assertive men can be powerful and strong
but it's not the way we thought it was before
i think it comes from more of a place where vulnerability
is is the driver in that case and and we are
starting to hopefully play play our part a little
bit more intentionally a little bit more effectively
rather than just following the age old rules
of how we're supposed to behave. Yes, absolutely.
And along the lines of finding people and mentors
and having that exist in your reality, it really
helps to spark other people and how important
it is to have. men in roles where they can inspire
that and hold that uh true masculinity of just
like holding what is and and bringing into reality
like grounded action i feel like that is actually
what masculinity is and i feel like uh we have
collectively been programmed to believe it to
be like oppressive and dominating and controlling
and like, you know, it's like the negative aspects,
but like truly it would be someone for me personally,
what comes to mind is Dr. Swimer. I asked him
if he would be a guest on the podcast to speak
on exactly that, because I think of him as such
a, I've had some difficult times and I would
ask myself. is everything really like a nightmare
like this could be a nightmare this reality could
be a nightmare my life could be a nightmare and
the world could be a nightmare or it could be
the opposite and all I have to do is find examples
of like what why I believe that it's truly good
and beautiful and I would think of people in
my life that made me and others feel safe and
uh just just awesome people and he would he was
one of them I saw him one day at Home Depot and
I was like you know yeah it might sound weird
but I've had some tough times recently and when
I try to think of good people in the world that
exist to make me believe like this actually is
good and I can trust and all you know everything
is beautiful and you're one of those people and
he was just like well thank you young lady that's
that's amazing I I struggle to find role models
in my own life who are pushing themselves in
that way. And I've always looked at him the same
way because I know he was an iron man. He was,
what's the word? He was warm, but he was also
firm at the same time. And he knew how to take
charge. There's a term for that in teaching.
And I don't know why it's not coming to my head
right now. Okay, maybe later. Yeah, maybe later.
yeah but one of his famous phrases was real men
wear pink and he would wear pink ties and he
yep yep he was so funny he would come into classrooms
and he would check and he would poke fun and
he knew everybody's names man i hope you guys
meet him i really hope he books with me i'm sure
he will he's really he is like a he is an example
of like an angel on earth like he what a powerful
holding pain and determination and you know difficulty
like in a full life but like the beauty he's
brought to the world and sharing like education
and going on missions and um just how he's inspired
so many people like I saw him one time at a retirement
party and it was kind of a surreal experience
because he also you all don't know but he's towering
how tall do you think he is he's over six five
He had to be about 6 '5". Yeah, 6 '5", and real
loud, booming voice. Anyway, so he's at this
retirement party. Of course, he's like a celebrity.
Everybody's talking to him. So I see him, and
I'm like, oh, man, maybe I'll talk to him. I
wonder if he remembers me. Of course he remembered
me, right? And so when I'm sitting there at dinner,
I'm looking around at all the tables, and I'm
looking at this scene. And I'm thinking about
the things that he shared on Facebook and like
the different places he's been, different countries,
different environments he's been in, shared in
different cultures. And I'm looking at this scene
where it's like, you know, not to discredit this
person's achievement in their retirement party,
but like it was a literal banquet, open bar.
We paid for the open bar, by the way, like we
were a sponsor. So it's like, I'm looking at
this and I'm like, what the fuck? what is this
like yeah like there's so many more important
things in the world and experiences that like
i feel so shallow and then i was like kind of
ashamed of myself and that might sound weird
but it's sort of like i think everyone should
do that more often probably it's like reflecting
on like in an empathetic way like what else could
be my existence right now and what other people
have experienced and allowing that to open your
framework of what matters and what to focus on
and so it just it's been an interesting experience
and all of these people in our lives are they're
very intentionally yeah and the connections we
share it's it's fun yeah and and what I'm hearing
you say is you know he was such a healthy model
for what a healthy relationship looks like between
an adult and a child, as well as how we should
be interacting with each other. And to be at
a party like you were and to be really seeing
that, that just shows how important relationships
are and how important it is to show your true
self, to be vulnerable in those situations. It
sounds like you were. allowing yourself in that
moment to be vulnerable and say, wow, the relationships
that I have here and the way they make me feel
have really done something to me. Yeah, it's
life. It's, you know, I hope people regularly
ask, why am I here? What am I really doing? Am
I doing enough? What could I do better? And not
in a pressure way. uh not in a way that we internalize
and we say i need to be doing better i'm not
doing enough like all the there's a balance the
balance between and it's it's hard to find but
i saw something recently and i've known this
but the way that she described it was beautiful
the synchronization how synchronization works
in heart cells, brain cells, uh, pendulums, whatever,
like you could have it clicking all different
times, but eventually because of the tiny vibrations
and time and space, they all start synchronizing.
And it's, it's very important to have the collective
energy open and synchronizing in a positive way,
uh, to the best of our ability. Yeah. That's
beautifully said. Thank you. I don't even know
what I just said, but you'll get it on the playback.
It just like it goes like that. So I don't know
what happens. But yeah, tell me more. All right.
So if I'm if I'm jumping back into it, because
I think we were we were right in the middle of
like where where I was when I was starting to
turn things around, you know, that moment that
I chose to live. It wasn't just by trying hard
and just trying to fix things. It was it was
letting people in. And that choice, it reshaped
everything in my life. It took almost a decade
to do it. But my marriage, the way that I started
leading, and really the way that I defined success.
But the one thing that never changed is I never
stopped trying to achieve. And you've gotten
to follow this journey. And it's been such a
blessing to be able to follow your journey as
well. I didn't stop achieving, but I did stop
isolating, both emotionally and physically. And
for anyone that's ever isolated, we know that
that really can dig us into a deeper hole when
we're suffering with depression, substance abuse,
and it pulls us away from those relationships
even more. And it can be a lot harder to get
out of trouble, I guess, if you find yourself
there. So that was one of the greatest things
that happened. vulnerability ended up becoming
this foundation for me in building relationships
and teams, the way I approach the family life.
And when I began sharing my journey, I really
started to see how high performers like ourselves
were stuck where I had been. You know, they look
successful on the outside, but they're so disconnected
on the inside. And today I get to share my story,
share my experience by teaching people to embrace
vulnerability so that they understand what real
connection feels like and they, and they don't
have to go through life suffering. Yes. Yes.
Cause we're not alone. That's a weird, that's
why we're all here together. Really? I mean,
otherwise we'd be alone. Yeah, I know. And I
don't know, can you answer this? Because I know
I can for myself, but was there a time in your
life when you felt like it was just better to
be a loner and you realized something from that?
Whether it was better or worse to be that way?
I would say after, in May of 2021, I had an abrupt
spiritual awakening and I've talked about that
like several times because it usually comes up
because it was a major pivotal point. Which that
is when I really felt like I wanted to be a loner.
I did not want to be around other people. Things
were really wiggly. It was uncomfortable for
me. It only took about five years to unwind and
be able to comfortably say that's because I'm
a shaman. I wasn't crazy. There's nothing wrong.
I'm just able to see things on that level. See,
hear, feel, smell. etc so there's nothing wrong
but yes I I felt like I wanted to be a loner
I was really I would rather to be connected with
nature and animals and like plants and um then
there was uh that felt good for a time but then
um yeah it's I felt like it was really important
for me to be normal and like go out and like
do things because it is right but i i it's okay
to have like smaller groups you don't have to
like open yourself up to like you don't have
to be on a podcast or make a podcast you don't
have to speak in front of people if you don't
want to but like opening up to your family in
more honest ways um i mean like how does that
happen it could be intentional you could get
like cards have you ever seen these like Decks
of cards are like flashcards where you can ask
questions and it's for specific topics. Like
it could be for family. It could be for a relationship.
It could be for like sex. Like it could be whatever.
And like you could do that kind of thing. Or
it comes out in like you just have an emotional
outburst and then you're able to like actually
explain yourself because other people are seeing
signs and eventually you have to talk about it.
So, I mean, you could either be proactive or
you could. exist and pick up on signs and hold
things in or you know it's hard to compare but
I'm kind of getting off track that's okay it's
it's good because I I've enjoyed watching your
journey from from where you were and I watch
from the peripherals it's mostly through social
media but if if I'm correct in asking or saying
were you working through a lot of trauma at one
point uh to to get to where you are now? Oh yeah.
It was like built up stress because I was, I
didn't have a great relationship. It wasn't balanced.
Our workload wasn't balanced. Our communication
wasn't good. There was, there were things amiss,
things that didn't add up. It was really stressful.
Because then eventually, like, I mean, it was
better when I worked on my own. I always had
my own job and I managed like the household and
the kids mostly. But then eventually I started
working in business with my ex and it was really,
things didn't make sense. The more involved I
got, the less I understood what he was doing,
what was happening. Nothing made sense. Like
he wanted me to be a partner. He wanted me to
run everything and do everything. He said, you
know, for our wills, we wanted to get things
like the plan for our wills after we had our
daughter and just normal things that a married
couple does. And the question comes up, well,
what, what do you want to happen? If something
happened to you, if you were to die, what do
you want the business? He said, I want her to
run it. Well, okay. If you want me to run it,
then you should probably make me part owner.
And if you want me to take money out of our home
equity line of credit to put into a property
that's owned by the business, and I don't have
any ownership of that, but you want me to work
60 hours a week for the business and put my money
up for it and live my life around it for my entire
life with him, but not be honored in any way
or recognized or secure, and I'm run ragged.
It got to the point where it was just, it was
like literally clown show. Like it was just,
it was just so outrageous that it had to stop.
Like it was just, and then I realized now that
I, I actually believe it was intentional, like
psychological abuse, emotional abuse, psychological
abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, all the
kinds of abuse. And so I'm realizing it now because
I didn't. talk openly with anyone during that
time um I tried to like I tried to tell my my
husband how I was feeling I was always very honest
and open but like I didn't tell I didn't share
my problems with people because when someone
asks you how are you you're supposed to say I'm
great doing great yeah spent a lot of time doing
that in my life yeah yeah right It's just so
stupid. Like, why do we lie? We lie to ourselves
when we do that. Like when we just went, someone
asked you how you are, you have a rock in your
gut and you're like, I'm good. Yeah. Why, why
are you lying? It's just. I have a big emotions
color wheel in my classroom or in my art classroom.
And everyone's like, that's so great. You have
that for the kids. And I tell them, I'm like,
I didn't put that up there for the kids. I put
that up for myself when I was dealing with, I
didn't know how to express a single emotion until
I was in my maybe late 20s. I kept everything
bottled up. And whenever I was teaching and I
started having moments where I just felt angry
or sad, those are the two emotions I never learned
how to process. You know, it comes out in us.
It comes out in us as adults. And I was like,
this is not, a way to show up in the classroom
here. So I use that chart as a tool to allow
myself to say, hmm, I feel really angry right
now, but what flavor of angry do I feel right
now? Am I frustrated? Why am I frustrated? Oh,
because I feel like I just got betrayed by this
kid. And that's bringing up feelings from childhood.
Oh, actually, that makes me feel really sad.
So uncovering yeah all of those emotions yes
yes and can I ask you when you were younger did
people tell you not to cry because you were a
boy it was a big thing on the sports field it
was it was it was the locker room kind of tendency
don't be a don't be a pussy suck it up rub dirt
on it and to an extent As an athlete, you have
to be willing to put up with physical pain and
play through injury. But we're talking on the
emotional side where a child is trying to express
that they're in discomfort and it's psychologically
hurting them. And having that message constantly
generalized across the board was difficult to
have to always fall in line with. Yeah. And it's
interesting because we as humans naturally cry.
Like, don't you think it's funny? We have to
fight it back. Oh, yeah. I'm a crier, too. Right.
And it's well, it's medicine. The component,
the chemical component of our tears are actually
specifically designed for whatever we need, especially
if they come from the inner part of your eye
and they curl in toward your mouth. You should
let them go in your mouth because it's literally
medicine. And I don't know how to express it.
Not only is that a spiritual aspect, but it's
scientific. Like it just, it is, it's, it's,
we're built for that and it should be expressed.
And it's a sin. I think when people are told
not to cry, it's yeah. Yeah. It's sad. Instead
of just someone like holding them in that, you
know, like that's, that's sad. Yeah. When, when's
the last time you had just a good cry? Oh my
gosh. Like a sponge. You just got sponged out.
Oh my God. What did I cry about? I cry almost
every day because something will make me cry.
Like, but it doesn't last long. You know what
I mean? It's just, it's like joy and sadness,
you know, like whatever. one the last thing i
think i cried about was i saw an instagram video
and it was a girl cooking with her grandma and
it was this pot and she's like can i call the
pot and she's like i don't know it'll be up for
dibs like whatever and then the whole family
like then like flash forward and the whole family
was there with a bunch of stuff around and they
had the pot up and called the girl like this
is for you and she was crying and that made me
cry because like that is magic and those items
hold energy from from our family members that's
like you know material things don't matter but
they do when they have sentimental energy like
they really hold energy in a in a feng shui dynamic
um but it's everything has energy but the last
time i cried like and actually really started
like wailing and crying was uh i had to suddenly
cancel a trip that i had planned and i was disappointed
And then I had to let that disappointment out,
but it's okay. It worked out in my favor. It
was just sucked. I'm happy to hear. Yeah. Yeah.
It's it's yeah. Maybe it may be another time.
I had a trip planned to go to Puerto Rico and
I was going to go for a workshop to learn how
to build cob structures. And that's the direction
I would like to go for my own home. Like I don't
want to. buy a house in chester county and have
a mortgage i want to build a home from the earth
and have several different homes in different
areas of the world like i don't want you know
what i mean so i'm trying to learn how to do
that because you you know it would be much cheaper
if you did it yourself so i want and first of
all i need to learn and that's how i do things
so i had planned to go to a workshop and uh Then
suddenly my daughter had some issues. She didn't
want to go to school. She had some truancy issues
and was having a tough time. She's a manifester
though. If you know anything about human design,
like her energy isn't consistent and she sometimes
needs rest cycles and she's growing and she's,
you know, so, and I'm home. So I was like, I
would like to homeschool her. And if I homeschool
her, she could come with me to this workshop
and she could do her online school. learn this
and experience you know that's how I want to
live but uh my ex did not want that so then he
made some emergency uh orders and then the judge
said that I couldn't take her so oh it was like
and it was the day before uh -huh oh gosh that
must have been a difficult moment it was yeah
it was rough it was really rough yeah But it's
okay. Cause I was able to let it out. Yes. That's
why release is important. Yes. Yes. Cause it
was like, that's not normal for me. I don't usually
like get extremely emotional, but I do like I'll
have tears and they come quickly and they leave
quickly and I just let them come and go and it's
okay. Yeah. Just move through the emotion. It
passes. And then you don't have to hold on to
any other excess garbage afterwards. Yeah, I
actually it's reminded me of a story that I posted
yesterday about a Native American tradition where
they'll gather stones, specific stones and identify
them with their trauma or what they want to release.
And then they'll go to the water and throw those
stones intentionally releasing that. And then
they hold the last one, keep that as a reminder
of what they released and that it's actually
like more effective. than talk therapy. There's
a lot of power behind that. And I've seen that
in various forms too, like release meditation
where you're thinking the thoughts or in cognitive
behavior therapy even. actively, intentionally
releasing the thoughts and watching, putting
them in a boat. Oh my gosh, you're bringing me
back to some of that. Putting it in a boat and
watching it sail down the river and your problem
is going down. It sounds all woo -woo when you
don't know that world, but when it's all you
have to grasp onto to get through that hard time
in your life, you're like, I'm willing to do
anything at this point. And it actually does.
really help a lot yes yes because we are so powerful
in our intention and when you visualize that
you use your imagination that's real that really
is your imagination is what you can draw from
to help you feel how you want to feel right uh
it's just it's interesting you can you can let
it get run away and kind of terrify you and get
paranoid or self -critical, or you can let it
surprise you and take, take things away that
you didn't know you had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
fun. Like children do kids. You know, I just,
I, I love observing their. imagination and and
the way that they think and act it's just so
funny it's that's my my favorite age is kindergarten
to teach because they're so they do not get offended
by anything yeah and they won't turn a cheek
to something that's that's happening that would
normally make everyone go oh they get bumped
into they don't apologize they're just like oh
okay they hold their own space they don't get
offended i had a student last year he was drawing
in class and he just yells out what the fuck
and not one kid in that class in that kindergarten
class turned to see what he said well they're
probably used to all their parents well yeah
well that kid was because when i went to him
i'm like hey bud you know what you just said
because The other kids were like oblivious to
it. And I'm like, you know what you said? He's
like, yeah, my parents say it all the time. Oh
my gosh. Okay, but well in here, like I had my
kindergarten teacher voice on, but it just, for
me, I'm like, that is so raw human. They haven't
been intercepted by, you know, the judgment train
yet where they're going to start acting a certain
way and showing up a certain way based on how
they think others want to show, want them to
show up. Yeah. Yes, definitely. For a little
while I was a swim instructor at a kid's swimming
place. It was fun. I did it last winter because
I had the time during the day because I've not
taken a job like a, you know, nine to five with
someone else. So I was like, I could just do
that for a couple hours, be in the pool, get
some exercise and watching the kids. experience
something that they don't they're not sure about
but they take the risk and then they succeed
and how proud they are i just it's like magic
like that energy is so powerful it's kind of
like that's what that's what powers the world
you know yeah it's it's so fun i love that and
how adults when working through their inner child
stuff can when you know on the healed end of
the spectrum can can allow that in and go have
fun like i can't tell you how many crazy stares
i've gotten from people like over the years at
a playground like i'll just run around and like
play on the playground equipment and like you
know play with the kids and stuff and people
can see you doing that yeah like i'm like so
weird i'm like make dinosaur noises like people
are like what is she doing but you know who cares
because we're here to play so i mean it's just
fun but Well, here's to bringing out the inner
child in us every day. That's awesome. Yeah,
it's fun. Except for some time, you know, now
I'm homeschooling my daughter and she'll want
to do everything with me. And we have this awesome
space in the basement that's like gymnastics
and area with half of its art and half of it's
like a gym. she'll want to go down there. And
I'm like, can you please go down? I'm like doing
the dishes and cooking, I'm doing whatever. And
I'm like, I'm not a kid. I can't just play. And
then I'm like, I shouldn't say that. You know
what I mean? Cause I can just play. Like we can
just use, I could just say, you know what? I'm
going to stop doing the dishes and go down and
play. Or maybe she can help me do the dishes
and then we can play together. You know, it's
like, there's always a way, but yeah, we have
to get away from that mindset of like, I don't
have time to play. I know. That's all we do have
right now. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel.
I keep cutting you off with your story. I'm sorry.
Oh, it's okay. Winding all over the place. I
feel like these are the best types of interviews
or podcasts or when you speak on the topics that
you want to speak on, but you draw in the connection
of what you're. your brand is or your beliefs
are and you mesh those together because I think
that's the content people want to hear is how
do you come into everyday situations in life?
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about, are you
still pursuing art? Like, do you do your own
art or you get your fill at school? Tell me about
your art world. So my fill at school is different
than the fill that I get from making art myself.
Yeah. One thing that I realized later on is when
I quit drinking, I jumped right into this identity
of I'm an artist. I'm going to make it my career.
And it became a healthier obsession for me. And
while it is a healthy thing to do. I just I was
so lost with with knowing who I was, because
the only thing I thought I was was an athlete.
And then I was an alcoholic. And and then when
I stopped that, I was like, well, I guess I'm
nothing now. I do. I'm good at art. I love art.
I've always done it. Let me pursue. And that's
the side where achievement for the achievement
for the purpose of. feeling fulfilled or feeling
loved and filling gaps in my life that's where
that really started to show up as a pattern because
I did that as an athlete I thought that if I
got to the highest level you know I would I would
finally be loved I would finally be looked at
in a way but it was really just myself wishing
that I could look at myself as being worthy of
love the same thing happened with the art business
and I finally sold out a show and was empty and
I was like I know this feeling I've had this
feeling before but I had my wits about me and
I said this I did it wrong again shoot I fell
into the pattern and that's when I really noticed
the pattern of how achievement became my drug
it's it was just the only way I thought I could
feel loved and when I finally confronted that
I started to see just how just what the best
mode of feeling loved was for me. And that was
in having deep connected, vulnerable relationships
with people and letting people know how they
have come into my life and how they have affected
me. One of the things that I do every day is
I send a message to someone in my life and I
just, I tell them exactly what they mean to me,
the impact that they've had on me. I go deep.
I might give them a motivational speech. I might
call them up to be like, you need to get on whatever
that thing was that you gave up. And I don't
know what it is, but we all have something because
we're human. And it's so much received and appreciated
by people. Yeah. And it just confirms what the
power of vulnerability and openness can do to
our relationships for healing and for progressing
our relationships as well. Yeah, totally. It's
so funny. Cause right when you started talking
about that, I was going to say, I remember you
sent me a message like out of the blue and you
were like, Hey, I just want to let you know,
you really helped me. Whatever. Like, I think
you were talking about. how I commissioned you
for the painting of the house. And you were like,
I just want to thank you for that. And I'm like,
what do you mean? Like I was, I wanted that picture
from you because you're a great artist. Thank
you. Yeah. So it's just, you know. Yeah. And
that was the relationship side that I failed
to see at the time. Cause at the time I said,
oh, she wants a commission. I'm going to make
some money and, and it's cool. I'm doing art.
Yeah. Really. It was a Bobby. Like this is coming
from you. This is a special thing. Yeah. Your
relationship with me means something. Yeah. And
I feel like there are moments in our lives we
don't tell people about how they affected us.
I was just thinking, I've never told you this,
but I remember how I got into the band Sublime.
Oh, yeah. I loved them. And it was because of
you. Oh, really? Because in seventh, I think
it was seventh grade. In Mrs. Weaver's music
class, we sat next to each other. We had that
horseshoe -shaped desks, and I sat next to you.
I barely knew you, but I did know on your backpack
or on something, you had a Sublime sticker or
a water bottle. Did we carry water bottles then?
I don't know. Yeah, what? Were we just dehydrated
all the time? We didn't carry water bottles.
Yeah, you had the Sublime sticker, and I'm like,
Chrissy's cool. She's like with the cool crowd.
So I'm like, I need to find this. And I'm like
rooting through my parents' CDs and I find the
Sublime CD, the one where he's got like the tattoos
on the back or whatever. And I found it. And
whenever I would listen to that CD, I'm like,
Chrissy would approve of this. And so I got so
into Sublime because of that sticker on your
binder. I don't even remember where it was. That's
so funny. Probably on my binder, yeah. To get
into a band so much just because of that moment.
And to not share that kind of cool, special experience
with someone as random as it is, why don't we
do that more? People love hearing it. I say things
sometimes and sometimes people are a little,
maybe it's because they don't know how to receive
it. So I shouldn't take it personally. But for
example, years and years ago, I was at Target
one day and there was a woman in front of me
and she had two young children and they were...
I don't want to say they were well -behaved because
they were quiet and staying still, but they were
quiet and staying still. So I was like, look
at them. You know what I mean? Like, look at
how sweet, like they're just like chilling. And
there was like an empty banana peel on the conveyor
belt. And I was like, oh, one of the kids got
hungry and that's sweet. She's paying for it.
Like, that's good. And then I'm looking at the
things that she's buying and it's for organization
and cleaning and like whatever. And, you know,
I just, something came to me. and this is part
of like my spiritual gifts like it's not me thinking
it it's like but i do need to convey things sometimes
because i get this overwhelming feeling like
my heart starts pounding i keep hearing it in
my head like and i'm just like I feel weird.
Like, I can't say that. Like I need, like, I
can't just like start talking to her. Like she's
busy. Like what? Stop. Like, but something was
like, say this to her. And I was like, excuse
me. I just wanted to let you know, in case no
one let you know today or recently that you are
appreciated. I just wanted to let you know how
appreciated you are and you're doing a wonderful
job. And like, look at you go. And you know.
and she started to cry and then like the people
around like the cashier and like different other
people they're all like oh and I was just like
then I felt weird because I was like oh I didn't
mean to like make you cry but that's beautiful
and it was a nice moment she thanked me for saying
that and I'm like of course like I felt like
I had to like you know yeah so just doing that
kind of stuff more I think is like that's what
we're supposed to do instead of holding it in
because when we hold it in that stuff gets stuck
and I feel like mostly the regrets that I have
are when I don't say things when I'm repeating
stuff and I don't say it that's what I regret
way more than just saying like hey this is random
and I would just say whatever yeah those are
my biggest regrets are the are the moments I
didn't say something and I have a lot of regrets
I don't hold myself, I don't put pressure on
myself for this, but in middle school and high
school, watching bullying happen and feeling
like I couldn't do anything about it and not
stepping in, but just holding on to that hate
and holding on to that fear of that person as
well and putting myself out there, I've felt
regret on that end of the spectrum. i've it's
funny because i would i'm so weird i just i'm
all over the place like i normally am but uh
i would either be bullying someone or i would
be standing up for someone being bullied yeah
like but either way i would say something i felt
like i was pretty much always the person who
would say what everyone else was thinking uh
-huh but people wouldn't say it but i would say
it sometimes i would get in trouble but like
whatever i i did it um but I do feel bad sometimes.
There's one thing in particular I feel bad about
dumping mustard on someone that was not nice
at all. It wasn't me. But I do remember a couple
of times speaking up for people being bullied.
One time in particular, seventh grade computer
class, there was a student who stuttered and
the teacher was like, spit it out already. While
he was struggling to ask a question, all the
other kids know this. We've gone to school with
him. He's asking a question. He's starting to
stutter. It's okay. We're all being patient.
She says, spit it out already or something along
those lines. And I was just absolutely disgusted.
I was like, how dare you? Like, but she's a teacher.
So if I was like, fuck you to a teacher, like,
I mean, not that I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't
put it past me, but you know, that's not how
we want to be, but yeah. And then years later
I reached out to him online actually. And I told
him that I remembered that and how I felt so
sorry that I didn't speak up. um because someone
should have spoken up and how horrible that was
and that i was very happy because he was coming
out about how he overcame his stutter like he
was uh like did interviews or was on a commercial
or something along those lines and he shared
it so i it was open to talk about and i sent
him a message and i was like hey i just wanted
to say i remember that vividly and she was a
bitch yeah so yeah hindsight 2020 you know I
mean we we hopefully take those things in our
lives and we continue to progress now and and
start to become those people that we were afraid
of being back then yeah totally because what
do we have to lose at this point nothing yeah
we already almost lost our sense of self at one
point so yeah yeah that was that was the most
important thing to to hold on to yeah and it's
important to also surround yourself with people
who like want you to be your full self and support
you and the things that you're doing because
in for example in my circumstance there were
times where like my ex would turn to me and be
like you shouldn't you shouldn't say what you
maybe you shouldn't say so much sometimes I see
the way people look at you and I'm like like
made me feel like self -conscious for being me.
And I was like, it's not right, you know, but
whatever. That's why, that's why they're an X,
but that's, we just move on. We find different
environments. If something's not comfortable,
you know, just recognizing that and knowing that
you deserve to be recognized and supported. And
there are good people who want to hear what you
have to say and think you have good ideas. if
you're not around the right people right now,
it doesn't mean that you can't be, you just might
have to let some things go and it's, it's a tough
transition, but it's always worth it on the other
side. Absolutely. It is. Yeah. Yeah. So tell
me, are you getting into this with one -on -one
coaching or are you doing like group things?
I am not, I'm not getting into coaching. So that
is like, I've considered it. It's really, my
gut is like, I don't want to coach. I don't want
to learn to coach yet. Right now. I don't think
you need to learn. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think that
you could be. I'm getting strong coach vibes.
Oh, good. You totally have one -on -one containers
that people work with you for specific stuff,
or are you not leaning in that direction? Currently
not leaning in that direction. And that might
just be due to limiting beliefs that I have.
I'm really taking it one thing at a time. And
with the speaking, that sort of came to me. And
I realized just how much I loved the performance
part of it, like as an actor or a former actor
and as an athlete getting ready for the big game.
It feels exactly the same. So it's like the best
of both worlds for me. And I mean, I noticed
that once I did a couple of talks and I was like,
OK, I'm cold pitching all these people now and
they're not responding. How do you how do you
compete in the business of public speaking? And
I'm now in a mastermind, an eight -week mastermind
with Jen Gottlieb, who is a phenomenal speaker
and business owner as well. And in this cohort,
we're learning how to build out our keynotes
with going from, for me, a 20 -minute talk to
a framework that... sustains 45 minutes to an
hour and aligning our messaging aligning our
branding um you've seen more from the social
media side for me because that's a really great
modem for me to express myself and i love the
art artfulness of doing it and i really love
the challenge of like how do you go viral how
do you how do you create your own space or community
here um And obviously, I always have to be careful
of not doing it for anything other than I want
to inspire people versus, you know, it's very
easy for me to fall back into the path of this
achievement will make me feel loved, this achievement.
So I'm always checking myself on that. But right
now, it's more I want to get on stages. I want
to talk. I want to. fail on the go and I want
to learn how to just do it and get my hands dirty
right now. So speaker fees is really all I'm
selling right now. And speaker fees is not the
be all end all. It's just I don't have a product
to sell right now. So that's why I say I'm not
a coach yet. That might be a path I go down.
But while I'm working full time and with kids
and building this speaking part of me as well.
There's only so much that I feel I can give my
complete attention to. Absolutely. And right
now, this is a stage. This is like doing it raw,
learning how to speak my message. So I'm so grateful
for what you have given me in this moment. And
now I have a podcast mic too. That was what a
great excuse. Yeah, right? Yes, because you need
that in your production. You need to like, you
know, have the right tools. And it's, I'm so...
proud that you're opening up that space opening
up your your soul your mind and sharing it with
people and inspiring others to do the same because
we definitely need that uh we always have we
always will um and right now especially and i'm
i'm very thankful for that so i just want to
express that yeah i'm i'm so proud of you for
for doing the the podcast thing yeah thanks i
don't even know what it's really going to be
it's really just it's literally in my experience
it's people that i know things that have happened
things that you know different sometimes crazy
experiences sometimes very grounded conversations
like this for example was a very grounded conversation
sometimes i'm talking about dragons and time
time travel you know who knows but it's all part
of the this world this thing we call life so
yeah uh i i just i love having such a wide array
of topics and you're inspiring me to become a
more serious speaker i feel like i'm all over
the place but i also uh smoked a joint a little
bit earlier so kind of like oh there you go calm
the nerves a little i do such things sometimes
sometimes it just depends yeah uh but i guess
we'll wrap it up for today and uh where can people
find you online what what do you go by online
So online, my Instagram is at certifiably creative,
kind of like certifiably insane, but a little
bit better for being creative. Yes, yes, I love
it. But that's the number one sort of place you
can find me right now where I'm posting my social
media. I'm working on getting a page up for booking
speaking gigs and things, but that will. probably
be announced through my Instagram page. Yes.
Yes. Follow Bobby on Instagram at certifiably
creative. And I've seen some things. There's
this one guy that talks, his name's Taylor and
he, the one page that I watch him on, it's like
explaining the man brain, but he has other things
he talks about, but he. booked a TEDx talk and
he's like this is what you need to do if you
want to become a speaker or an authority this
is uh people that you know book things for you
to come and talk on all you have to do is book
a TEDx talk and it's like yeah how do you do
that sure thing can I fill out the form you will
though you know what we'll do some we'll do some
magic for that set that on your vision board
and that you know That's a good one to, yeah,
that's a good one to put on there. Yeah. Well,
thank you so much for your time today, Bobby.
I really appreciate it. And everyone check out
Bobby, watch him grow. He's going places. So
thank you so much. Thank you, Chrissy. It's been
a pleasure. Yes. Take care. Take care. Thank
you so much for being in this conversation with
Bobby and me. What I love about what Bobby shared
is that vulnerability is not a branding strategy.
It's a practice. It's daily. It's sometimes inconvenient.
And it is what it takes to make real leadership
possible. If something in this episode opened
you, softened you, or helped you name an experience
you've been carrying, I would love to hear about
it. You can connect with Bobby on Instagram at
Certifiably Creative. to follow his speaking
work and what he's building next. You can find
me at Hyacinth Healing, where I offer spaces
for integration, Akashic insight, and deep witnessing
for people walking complex paths. If this episode
felt important, share it with someone that you
trust. We grow stronger together by telling the
truth. I'll see you in the next one.