Welcome and thank you for tuning in to Black
Women Amplified, the podcast. Your host Monica
Wisdom Tyson brings you downloadable conversations
that matter to women around the globe. We discuss
all things black girl magic, amplify our voices
and transform our challenges into triumphs. Monica
calls on her league of extraordinary women to
push our boundaries, share their expertise and
stories of personal transformation. Welcome your
host of Black Women Amplified, Monica Wisdom
Tyson. Hello, Black Women Amplified family. This
is your girl Monica Wisdom, and I am so excited
that you're here with us today. We have a very
special guest on the Black Women Amplified, and
I can't wait for you to hear our conversation.
Tanya Pinkins is a force of nature. She is a
Tony award -winning actor who approaches the
many roles in her dynamic career with truth honoring
each character she embodies. Whether it's her
pioneering work in Jelly's Last Jam, her groundbreaking
work in Caroline or Change, or her most recent
return to the New York stage as Lena Younger
in the reinvention of the award -winning play
Raisin in the Sun. Miss Pinkins adds layers of
complexities, giving the audience a more dimensional
understanding of these essential women. Her honesty
and precision in sharing the pain and frustrations
of humanity opens hearts and minds to the experiences
of Black people and women. One thing I know for
sure, Miss Pinkins is grace, strength, and courage
personified. And we are honored to have her here
on the Black Women Amplified podcast. Ladies
and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to
Miss Tanya Pinkins. Good day, Miss Pinkins. How
are you? I am divine, Monica. How are you? I
am very well. Thank you. Thank you for joining
us and for this opportunity. I'm excited to speak
with you. I've done a deep dive into Tanya Pinkins
land and because your career is so deep and so
vast and you have played so many great characters
and each thing that I saw and went into was more
spectacular than the next and we'll get into
all of that and because I know we're going to
talk about the red pill because you've dived
into filmmaking. Yes. And I watched the film
over the weekend. I just want to know, how does
it feel after a seven year hiatus to return back
to the New York stage? It was hard. It was so
hard. Like, you know, the muscles of that, that
is a very muscular thing. Doing a show six days
a week and literally. And I thought, I don't
know if I have it in me. And it was literally
the day I was like, oh my God, I got it back.
I got the stamina. My mind can think of other
things that they announced that we were going
to be closing. I was like, oh, I'm just getting
my groove on. Yes. This is definitely a story
that continues. to be told and it needs to be
told again and again, because it's such a contemporary
story. Raising in the Sun is a story about a
Black family trying to do what they need to do
and who, especially in this time, is not trying
to do what they need to do to make it. And so
what drew you to this rendition of Raising in
the Sun? Well, Robert O 'Hara. I love love love
love love love love slave play i know a lot of
black women detested it detested it and i'm going
to say something controversial as i want to do.
I really think that black women detested slave
play and the black woman's part in it because
it was a reflection of their own relationships
with men who were unworthy of them and frankly
as black woman it's hard to find men who are
worthy of us. So they didn't like seeing that
on the stage. Can you say that again? As black
women, we are so amazing. It is difficult to
find anyone who is worthy of us. And so, you
know, seeing it up on a stage where this black
woman is with a man who is just so unworthy of
her, I think they just hated it because it was
too close to home. What are the unique elements
of this production of Raisin in the Sun? Raisin
and the Sun was done in 1959. I don't know if
you happen to see the essay I just wrote, did
you? Yes. Okay. So what's unique about it is
that instead of the happy, grab the plant to
take to the next house, there's a coda, a visual
coda on the production that gives you what the
Hansberry's actually faced when they got there.
I mean, you're not going to get to see it this
week, right? So I'll just tell you that we, the
apartment leaves and the new beautiful yellow
house comes down and the little Travis comes
out the front door and hear the bird singing
and then nigger is splashed across the front
of the house. So that's probably the biggest
change. Other changes are I don't take the plant.
If you're into the sort of specifics of why that's
a choice I made. One, it's a house plant. If
I put it in a garden, it's going to die. Hasn't
ever been outside. Two, another change in the
play, the ghost of Big Walter, who is dead, is
in the house all the time for Lena. She is still
grieving. She still sees him. He still talks
to her. And so I leave the plant with him because
in my mind, he's bound by this place. You know,
we had these dreams to go somewhere else, but
he doesn't get to go with us. So the plant is
left to the house to him, whoever comes. the
last monologue of Walter, where he's doing his
cooning thing that he's going to do for the white
man, instead of that being done for the women
in the family. And particularly the way we are
doing this production where we're overlapping
lines, the way black people actually talk to
each other instead of, you know, the way theater
is you talk and then I talk and then you talk
and then I talk. We're overlapping the way you
come in when you when the thought comes. That
long monologue, I'm guessing he did not ever
say this, but in the style of how we're playing
this play, none of us would ever allow Walter
Lee to talk that long and so degradingly. And
so with that scene is done, it is done. He breaks
the fourth wall and he delivers it to the audience.
So he's literally. coon in for the audience.
And we are all looking out at the audience. And
he's saying those people out there where you
want us to live, they willing to pay us not to
move there. And I'm gonna take that money and
they won't have you won't have to live next to
no bunch of stinking dirty niggas. We not gonna
come and dirty up your house. So it's so powerful
to actually like make the audience the people
where they're moving. You know, there was a A
theater educator a white man who came and he
was at a talk back with me and he came up afterwards
and we got to have a conversation he talked about
how you know that monologue is the hamlet of
our time and everybody knows that monologue and
how he hated it so hard with the fourth wall
being broken he said i hated it and he said i
hated it so hard that i had to look at myself
and go what was this about this is yours it was
like you made me instead of me being able to
observe it. I had to hold it. I had to be a part
of it. And he said, I'm going to be unpacking
this for a long time to come. So Walter Lee is
normally just played as some charismatic, charming,
handsome movie star, a guy who just, we just
ignore how sexist and misogynistic and what a
drunk he is. There's like only one scene in the
play where he's not drunk and that is when he
wakes up in the morning. Every other day he's
drunk. His kid walks in and goes, you're drunk
daddy? Okay, she wrote a drunk. That is something
that previous productions have chosen to overlook.
They've chosen to overlook all the sexism, the
misogyny of him, because, you know, that is misogynoir.
You know, he gets to talk that way, and oh, that's
just funny the way he talks to these women. We
don't do that here. Francois, who is brilliant
and handsome and charismatic and all of that
leans into the misogyny and the drunkenness.
And he does it brilliantly because for some people
he's still just as charming as ever. And other
people for the first time see, oh man, this man
is a dick. So you get to see past the sparkle
and the way he's able to. bring the ladies in.
You get to see who he really is and what the
women really have to deal with. Exactly. That
is what we are doing. It's like you get to see
what we deal with when the door is closed. Yes.
And the suit is on the couch. That is what Robert
O 'Hara told me we were gonna do. He said, why
is a play by a queer black woman with four black
women in it known as a play about a black man's
dreams? What about the women's dreams? Right.
So when you re -imagine Lena, is that what you
brought to her character? Or you're bringing
to her character, I should say? I think... What
you know this is is my specific history specifically
my family migrated up from Mississippi Louisiana
Arkansas to Chicago worked those steel meals
were domestics in white families I knew five
generations on both sides of my family I know
these women intimately and the ways I had seen
it played before and I think that that's because
it was always about the man and the women were
just satellites. He was the sun and they were
satellites of him. The women were always a trope
of, you know, one dimension. Each of them was
playing a trope that he had to play off of, you
know, the long suffering nagging wife, the wannabe
bourgeoisie daughter and the mean emasculating
mother. And I don't know any of those people.
I don't know any black women like that, quite
frankly. I don't either. I don't know those women.
And the actresses I'm playing with aren't that.
And so, you know, Robert was like, this is the
women's play. And if you look at the text, Walter
Lee doesn't start or end any scenes. The women
do. And he just always is coming in and interrupting
their shit. That's the play she wrote. And so
we take the time with the women and what they're
going through. And most of the time we're not
even looking at him. He's coming in and setting
off fireworks and we are looking at each other
and trying to figure out whatever we were talking
about before. It doesn't stop just cause he's
acting a fool in the middle of the living room.
And that's as real as it gets. Because that is
the truth. And so as her, as his mother, I don't
feel sorry for him. I know my son is foolish.
Right. I know my son has some pipe dreams. Okay.
So there is nothing tragic to me about him. He
just foolish. You need to grow the fuck up. Also,
like my grandmother's one of my grandmother's
worked on the sunbeam line. She used to buy herself
a new Cadillac every damn year. She gave card
party. She was a Fisher woman. She grew roses.
She raised dogs that she could party wore the
finest clothes. And so we talked about like,
you know, always mama, she's all raggedy and
she wears a robe and she's the down trodden.
I'm like, if a black woman got to go talk to
some white people and ask for something, she
gets her best. We always have our finest stuff.
We don't go out asking the white people for nothing
and not being our spick and span best. Not a
hair out of place, not a hair out of place. Got
the gloves, got the lipstick. You know, I'm from
Chicago. We're steppers. We put a little stepping
moment in there. Mama, you know, talking about
that $10 ,000. We got a little stepping moment
in there. This woman is alive and lively. She's
still grieving, but this $10 ,000 can change
her life. This is her retirement. She gonna put
her daughter through school with a third of it.
She gone. But get it down payment on the house.
That's for the family. And that other 3000, that's
something she don't have to work for the rest
of her life. But she says to Walter here, you
pay the bills from now on. And Walter takes all
the damn money. Don't throw everybody under the
bus. And that's so many men have thought that
that was what the play was. Mama saying here,
take the money and have your chance and live
your dream. She don't never say that either head
of this house. Oh, put this in a checking account.
And then you write the checks. I'm gonna let
you take care of me. We gonna pretend you the
man of the house. Cause that would be some pretend.
Cause you didn't earn that money. I am over here
crying, laughing because this is so real. It
is the woman who really, you know, they always
say the man is the head of the household, but
the woman is the net. And we have a way of letting
them feel like they're running it. But the truth
of the matter is they're not. Right. I mean,
I literally had a man I was dating once asked
me, I took him somewhere and he was like, could
you just give me the money and I pay the bill?
I said, no, we're not going to pretend you paying
for this meal. I'm paying for it. And I brought
you cause I wanted to sit here with you. Just
like I tell women when a man takes you to an
expensive restaurant, he not trying to impress
you. That's how he eats. Right. Now, I did read
your essay. And like I said, it's a work of art.
I wish you would turn it into a monologue or
one woman play. I don't know, but it's brilliant.
And it's entitled A Letter to Jesse Green of
the New York Times. I was like, you could have
interchanged many names and many projects and
this would have worked for people who have not
read it yet. And I believe everybody should read
it. It's on your Twitter page. Which is where
i thought what sparked this response. Well the
way the show is you get a contract will run and
then they have like a possible extension and
then because i played that theater before i know
that as long as the ticket sales are good they
will keep extending. Okay and so that's kind
of always the hope for people when they do anything
off broadway everybody wants to move to broadway
i think there was certainly talk of that when
we first came here. So there was a date certain
of closing because they had to pay us through
that date because that's the contract we signed.
And then there was another month that they had
as a possibility because if it doesn't go to
Broadway, we still have this month that we can
do. And as I said, that day that I finally got
my groove and was like, OK, I can do this show.
I know what the show is. I know it in my body.
I know how to not have to sleep all day and then
do a show because the first few weeks I was sleeping
all day. It took everything I had. And I got
word that we were closing early. For the world,
that's an extension. But for us, knowing what
the contract said, it's an early close. And I
said, oh, we must have gotten a bad review in
the New York Times. And so I decided to go and
read the New York Times review. And look, I've
gotten plenty of bad reviews in my life. and
if it had just been a bad review and that I felt
that it you know because I knew we were doing
something that was so rooted in truth that it
was going to divide people so completely expected
that I'd say that maybe more than half of my
friends who come see the show don't like it at
all people like literally we have our friends
kind of blank as they pretend they don't see
us or know us when we come out like they don't
like it and that's fine so I chosen to not read
the reviews cuz i was like you know happy people
gonna love it happy people gonna hate it that's
fine you don't need to read this was done i never
thought that we would close early because we're
getting full houses every night. And there are
people who are devastated and sitting there crying
much like carolina change where it was moving
people. When i read that review i was like what
i don't even know what play you saw what are
you reviewing you reviewing something from your
mind but this not even what we did as i said
that's not even what the set look like. So I'm
kind of, I have this, I'd say one of my, I don't
even know what you'd call it, defense mechanism,
pet peeve, but I'm a dog with a bone kind of
about certain kinds of details. And I have to
sometimes catch myself because I can become very
combative over details. And I found it to go,
you know, the relationship is more important
than you being right about them saying that wrong.
But particularly with white people, it matters
because they have the ability to create narratives
that become reality or reality that people are
engaged in. And so I just found that every day
I couldn't stop thinking about that review. And
it was like every moment that I wasn't on stage,
my mind was coming back with the with the comebacks
and the comebacks and the comebacks. And I just
and one morning I got up and I sat on the toilet
and I wrote 20 pages handwritten. And I was like,
Oh, I got it. And every time I was off stage,
some more would come to me. And literally that
is about half of what I wanted to say. I was
just like, you gotta, you gotta get it out before
the show closes. And it's gotta be that people
can, you know, read it because, and I was like,
so I had to come up with what are the subheadings.
So if someone only wants to jump to a sub heading
and only read that. So it took me what I think
two weeks to get it done. I could tell it was
carefully crafted and you were serious. And you
wanted to be very clear. You know how your grandmother
speaks to you. I want to be very clear and what
I'm saying to you. So there's no speculation.
It was brilliant. I sent it to my girlfriends.
They were like, oh my God, this is amazing. It
was, like I said, you could interchange people
and situations and it fit because it was such.
a description of the pain of a Black woman and
our constant defense of ourselves and our women.
And no matter what we do, we're always defending
ourselves and trying to prove our worth and our
value. And it was like you said, I'm done. And
to people who are not, can't hold a candle to
us. That part. That part. But it was, I read
it a couple of times because I just had to absorb
what you said because it really applies to every
black woman's life. No matter what field you're
in, there's always some white man or white person
telling you who you are. And we're constantly
trying to say, that's not who we are. And now
I'm just going to send people this essay. Just
read this. Because I'm tired of defending myself.
I am who I am. And that's the point we are in
our society. I am who I am. And ooh, the red
pill. We'll get to that one second, but I want
to dig into your 2004 performance at the Tony
Awards. Oh my God. I saw Carolina change as a
younger person, but hearing it now in my 50s
is a whole nother animal. And the song, it was
just like, I get it now. Parts of ourselves,
we have to bury and dampen just to survive because
we have to leave our houses, go out into the
world with this guard on just to survive. Slam
that iron down on my heart myself. My soul, yes.
And the last line, especially hit home for me.
It said, don't let my sorrow make evil of me.
That's it. But how? I mean, the whole performance
was stunning and powerful and alive. But how?
How do we not allow this world to turn us bitter
and sorrow and angry? I think most of us do.
I think most of us do, because if we didn't,
we'd have killed a whole bunch of people a long
time ago. Because we up in their houses, we got
their children in our care. So I think that we
do. I think that we are successful in that. But
I think that that is who we are. I think that
a deeply divine people and that the earth and
the divine spirit that made everything. I like
to use the term netter, which it's the the kush,
chemite, in term for it. I think that that that
infusion is in us and I think that that is a
recognition of the impermanence of this world
and a knowledge that we go on beyond this incarnation
and that whatever is coming to us is a lesson
it's a teaching it's preparing us for the next
thing and that next thing might be in another
incarnation but i think we have a way of being
able to bless whatever comes into our lives how
we turn it into food and music and cook in and
we can laugh about it and make jokes like we
turn everything into something beautiful and
artful. I agree. In this generation that's coming
up, I see that they have a lot of anger. How
would you say to them to take that anger and
transform it into something artful or beautiful?
Well, you just would hit that little button there.
Here's this statement that I found. I think I
actually came across a version of it in a radio
video. He does a lot of videos about finance
and world history and stuff like that. But it
is this tough times make strong people. Strong
people make good times. Good times make weak
people and weak people make tough times. So I
feel like we are in some tough times. We're going
to go into some tougher times. And it's because,
and I'm counting myself in it, I have four children
who, to hear them talk, I'm just the worst mother
ever and they have had this horrible life and
poor them. And that's why they leave me with
their bills and run up my credit cards and don't
speak to me because I was so terrible. And so
there's a, you know, people who grew up with
it being good and they feel entitled to that
goodness. And so now they're taking us into some
tough times, but the next generation to come
through them tough times, they will make something
fabulous. I don't know that this generation can
do it. I don't know that I, in hindsight, when
I look back, like I remember coming up in my
twenties and stuff and I had so much resentment
for all the beatings I took and how, you know,
rough it was. Okay. Now I look back and I go,
oh, that's why people scare to me. Cause when
I survived surviving, my mother was like anybody
that came to my life, I was like, what you gonna
do that? I ain't already lived through. It's
not like I wouldn't have wished it on anybody,
but it's why I was forged in fire and I spared
my children. All of that and what they have gone
through and they think is bad. They don't know
what bad is, but they think it was. I've told
them all the time. If you get a choice between
the easy version and the tough version, always
choose the tough version. Cause it's going to
prepare you for those times when you don't have
a choice. Yes. 100%. And because our generation
forged from Jim Crow. we had to make it up and
make it happen. Exactly. Nothing was given to
us. Nothing. We didn't have scholarship programs
for college and we didn't have inheritance. I
didn't have nobody I didn't even knew to borrow
nothing from. If I was in trouble and I didn't
have, well, I wasn't going to have. I just was
going to not have until I could figure out how
to get what I needed. Right now I'm 60. realizing
I have to become the thing I think I need. You
know, I know a lot of people I've asked for a
lot of help. And many of those people have said
no, and it's their right to say no. And I'm like,
oh, I think they have what I need, what I want.
I need to become them. Yes. And you have become
a filmmaker to tell your stories. Because. This
film, The Red Pill, is something to see. I'm
going to tell you, I will never eat bread from
somebody else. I just want to let you know that
at a package, at a store, I'm not eating it.
So let's talk about, oh, thank you for those
words of wisdom. I have to give you your flowers
really quick. You're amazing. Well, thank you.
When I went into a deep dive, I was like, not
only as an actress, but just as a human. I'm
like, it's like listening to James Baldwin when
you speak because you're so honest in the way
that you're able to communicate what you're feeling.
I get it. I don't have to wonder. I don't have
to like, what is she thinking? It's very clear.
Where did you get that level of communication
from? Just asking. Because it's amazing. I think
that I must have come in this way because I've
been this way since I was a small child. I questioned
the people around me from the very early age
and I was always observing people's behavior
and the difference between their behavior and
their words. And so even when I was in elementary
school, I remember, you know, I was always the
kid that was going to get beat up or something.
I could talk my way out to dozens came in handy
for me because maybe I had to talk myself out
of many a ass whooping because I would just be
sitting and listening, you know, and I would
be like, well, if you're talking about them,
when they walk away, well, I guess when I walk
away, you're going to be talking about me. Like
I'm thinking about that at nine and 10. And I'm
just sitting and listening and just observing
how. If people didn't tell the truth, it just
made so much confusion happen. I don't know if
you're familiar with this book, which became
a Broadway show called the curious incident of
the dog in the night. And it's about a little
autistic boy. And he just doesn't understand
why people ever lie because he's like, then how
are you going to remember what you said and all
the things that the details that go along with
it? Like, that's just too much work. But, you
know, people who are practice liars, they just
tell a new lie. They just keep making up new
lines. They don't try to go back and make it
make any intrinsic sense. They just keep telling
lies and count on people to not remember. I'm
that person who remembers. Like, I go pull up
something Jesse said, like, Jesse, you like an
angry conversation to get started? Well, here,
here's one for you. And then you said. Your brain
is amazing. And it comes through in this movie,
The Red Pill, because as I'm watching it, I'm
like, why does she keep showing her t -shirt?
Like, just why does the camera keep panning this
lady's t -shirt? But by the time I got to the
end, I was like, oh. How did you conceive this
movie? And what was behind your decision to make
The Red Pill? I've been wanting to make movies
and be a director for a long time. I know a lot
of people and asked many of them to give me an
opportunity. People who had the power to just
literally give me an opportunity and none of
them did. Some of them did just say no. Most
of them just ghosted me. And I remember seeing
an Ava DuVernay thing saying, you know, I didn't
go to film school. I didn't do this. I just decided,
you know, nobody's gonna give it to me. I'm gonna
give it to myself. And interestingly, she's one
of the people who said no to me, but I saw that
video and I said, okay, then I got to do what
Ava did. I got to give it to myself. And I'm
so grateful for it because I realized that had
any of those people given me that opportunity,
I wouldn't have made my own film. I wouldn't
be a feature filmmaker. I wouldn't know everything
about how it gets done. I would be working for
other people. Mm hmm. So it came largely out
of the fact that I feel like I'm kind of just
this really curious, open person. So I'm listening
to a lot of things without judgment and I take
it in and. 2016, it was just so clear to me from
all the things I was hearing that 45 was going
to win. Being a woman in America, knowing a little
bit of history, I just truly believe women are
the most hated beings in America on the planet.
We're more hated than black people, and there
was just no way a woman could win, period. And
as we jokingly say, she couldn't beat a black
man. There was no way she was going to beat a
white one. I could see that in this movie because
every time your character said something, nobody
paid attention. Right? And you were telling them,
like, throughout the movie, what was about to
happen. Mm -hmm. Like, no, this is some... We
need to go. No, it's fine. And it's fine. Everything
was... No, you're just... And there was always
a reasoning for you being uncomfortable. It was
on you. Mm -hmm. I was like, well, if this isn't
real life... Yeah. And I felt that a lot of black
women would understand that. You know, there
were some black women who've seen the movie and
like, Oh my God, you traumatized me. The violence
against black women. I'm like violence against
black women is real. Like that ain't violence
against you. That's like just pointing out to
the rest of the world. Our labor is stolen from
us violently. That's the first image of the movie.
When I first heard about this movie was you were
on the Karen Hunter show and she talked about
that first thing and I was like, I'm not watching
that. And then when this opportunity came up
and I saw it, I was like, oh, it was rough, but
it wasn't to the extreme of what I thought it
would be. And it was definitely not as rough
as many horror movies that I've seen. So and
I understood the symbolism of it. And the idea
that really struck me throughout the whole film
was this illusion of this peaceful own people
and what they're really doing behind the scenes.
and I thought that was brilliant for you to bring
that aspect out. It was very well illustrated.
Thank you. It was very well illustrated because
by the time you got to the end, I don't want
to tell the movie. I'll just say when something
switched position, I fell out laughing. I'm so
glad you got the laugh. Laying in my bed and
I fell out laughing. because that was hilarious.
And it was so hilarious, like a funny reality,
hilarious. Yes, that's what I was going for.
It was, I was like, oh my God. To come up with
that, that is genius. Thank you. I'm glad you
got it. Because the women definitely were not
being namaste -ish. But this film, you have showed
it all over the world and it has been given awards.
Tell me about your film festival experience.
Well, I didn't get to do it in person because
it was COVID. I got to go to one festival and
get my award in person, and that was a directing
award at the Me Show Film Festival in Los Angeles.
Everything else was online. The film's been translated
into Russian, into Catalonian, into Greek, into
Spanish. I knew the film would resonate outside
of the world because I know that people outside
of America see America far more truthfully than
Americans see it themselves. So I always knew
the people outside America would get it. And
it was just the best creative experience of my
life. And I'm trying to figure out how to get
to do it again and do it easier. Because if you
see from the credits, I did about 100 jobs. Yes,
I paid for it. I had to do all the jobs that
I couldn't afford to pay wonderful people to
do. Yes, it was like you just cut and paste your
name into the credits because I had to do it
because it was my baby and I had to get it born.
And you birthed it and you midwiped it and you
doctored it. You did all the things. And it was
just, it really blew my mind. Cause I'm, and
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the horror genre,
but I love this new get out where they're just
talking about the horrors of our lives. It's
like reality. The story could have been put in
many genres, but the fact that it's in horror,
it talks about our reality. It's the simplest
way to put it. And one of the things that was,
you know, like when I would get certain notes
back from white people, you know, there's the
formula for the jump scares and the this and
the that. And I was like, yeah, that's not what's
scary for us. The violence is inevitable. We're
scared when it's good because we know y 'all
gonna fuck that shit up any second now. Like,
you know, every time we build a community any
second now, y 'all gonna come and bomb us or
burn it down. So the scary for us is when it's
not happening, when it's good, when the violence
comes, OK, we were waiting for that. Now it's
over. We're going to get a little peace for a
while. So even rhythmically, it has a different
rhythm for me than most horror films because
I don't think the violence is as much of the
horror as the anticipation of the violence that
you know is inevitable. Because we've seen it
before and they don't do anything new. That's
right. It's just when not what. Yep. Yes. And
I totally got that in this movie. And, and Bravo
to you for having the courage to have this conversation,
not only in America, but around the world, because
it's just the truth. Yes. It's the absolute truth.
And it's not truth to power. It's just, let me
show you the life that we live. Yes. And then
maybe you'll understand why we respond to life
or your respond to you in the way that we do,
because this is our existence daily, not when
something big happens. This is like walking out
of the door. Like I always tell, and not to get
too deep in this, I tell my friends, my white
friends, every day I pray that I make it home
just to go to the grocery store. Yes. Every day
I pray to come home from work safely. And that
is a huge burden. to carry every day. I want
to frolic just like you all do, but I have to
find those opportunities with my people and really
understand that this is just how life is. So
it's not, how can I change the world? It's how
can I navigate through it? So I say all that
to say, thank you for your work. Thank you for
getting it. I really appreciate that. I mean,
I'm doing what I'm doing to communicate. You
know, don't mind if it makes someone angry or
upsetting. I'm willing to have the conversation.
I want to communicate. I want to learn more.
If you don't agree, help me understand where
you're coming from and what your point of view
is. But I'm trying to express mine because there
may be somebody else out there who feels they're
alone in what they're thinking or that what they're
thinking is weird or crazy or wrong. And so I'm
like, well, here's mine. You know, I know it's
not everybody's, but it's mine. And there must
be some other people who share this. Yes. I think
we all do. You definitely have a way of communicating
a Black woman's experience in such a profound
way that's very clear. I didn't need a thesaurus.
I see what some people, I didn't need a dictionary.
It's just very, very clear. This is just how
it is, plain and simple. And I do hope, and this
is just my personal thing, I do hope you take
that essay and make something magic out of it
because it's brilliant. Thank you. It is absolutely
brilliant. Now, because you are this wise, profound
woman, I just wanted to ask some questions about
life, about black girl life. I wanted to know,
where do you find time and space to breathe?
Oh, I make that. One of my grandmothers, my heart
grandmother. When she was very, very sick in
a wheelchair and on oxygen and on all kinds of
medicines, I brought her to me in New York from
Chicago. I took her off all her medicines, because
as far as I was concerned, she was about to die
anyway. I took her off all her medicines. I did
things that were probably torturous to her. I
was in my 20s. I was just thinking, I know best.
And I was put her on juice fasting and had people
coming over massaging her and reflexology and
all kinds of stuff. She lost about 40 pounds
in two months. When she left me, she was running
me out. She was the grandmother I grew up with
running me out of my house and telling me this,
that and the other. I felt that she wasn't healthy
enough to go home, but you know what? She's a
grown woman and it was her life. You know, I
was not her mama and she went home and she died
pretty quickly thereafter. And it hurt me to
my heart, but I, I really had the profound realization
that you cannot. live anybody's life for them,
save their life. And it's disrespectful to even
try. And I don't even remember the question that
took me to that place. Well, it was the perfect
answer. It was the answer that we're supposed
to hear that we are not here to fix other people.
We're just here to support them and what they
do. And that was a beautiful tribute to your
grandmother to let her live her life and to do
all that you could so that you don't have any
guilt. as she moves on to the next round. Oh,
I remember what I wanted to say. So all of that,
I realized that my life was life. Like my life
was what I had. My grandmother never could ask
for help. And I said, I'm never going to be a
person who won't ask for help. So I always ask.
I ask everyone for help. Now, if they don't give
it to me, then I just got to go get it for myself.
So I ask, I don't ask even with the expectation.
Like if someone actually does help me, cherry
on top. I've always put my life before anything
else. Am I happy? Am I enjoying myself? Am I
comfortable with myself? I always say to people,
do what you can live with at three o 'clock in
the morning when you're all alone and all those
advisors and supporters aren't there. Can you
live with that decision? That's what has sustained
me. You know, people will be like, there was
one year I lived with one of my children and
at the end of two years of living with him, I
thought I was going to die. Physically debilitated
ended up developing a life threatening condition.
I took six weeks and went to Bali. People were
like, how you gonna do that? It's the middle
of the pilot season. I was like, you know what?
If a pilot came up, I couldn't do it. I need
to go take care of myself. I need five hours
of massage a day. People tell me in Bali, I can
get a massage for eight to $10. I'm gonna go
have five hours of massage for six weeks. And
that's really what I do. I'm not sitting around
waiting for some opportunity. I am living. in
gratitude and finding ways to be in gratitude
as often as possible, because I truly know that
tomorrow is not promised. So I try to live every
day so that it's a good day to die. Like, did
I, am I complete? Did I say everything I need
to do? You know, if I think of somebody, I reach
out to them because you don't know when they're
going to go either. That's life in a nutshell.
And the fact that you asked for help, that's
a huge problem for Black women, because we're
the first ones to say, I got it. I got it. Well,
you know, I will jump on. I got it. You tell
me no. That's like, well, I'm going to, you know,
I definitely, but I'm going to ask. I'm going
to ask. But the asking is a big thing for us.
Even executives that have a staff will say, I
got it, but you have a whole staff. Well, you
know, I took this wonderful class with a teacher
named Kasia Urbaniak at the Academy and it's
sort of woman empowerment thing. And she really
taught me about was the submissive dom thing.
And that was having taken her classes, what also
allowed me to appreciate slave play. And this
is what people don't understand. And it's that
way that capitalist social, you know, settler
colonial capitalism takes words and uses them
to mean the exact opposite of what they really
do mean. Like calling black people minorities
when we're like the global majority on the planet,
you know, the dom. The Dom is the servant. So
most Black women are Doms. We are serving everyone.
The submissive has the power. The submissive
is completely narcissistically focused on themselves
and attracting what they need and want. And the
Dom serves that. And so learning how to switch
between Dom energy and sub energy has been a
big thing in my life. to decide when I don't
want to be doming for somebody. I'm not here
to serve you, not going to do that. If it's a
choice between my happiness and yours, I'm choosing
me. Wow. It's like when I tell my goddaughter's
queen, sit down and get served. That's a submissive.
That's the sub. Oh, wow. I never even thought
about that. That's submissive. You're going to
have me thinking about that all weekend. Oh,
look up Kasia. Her work is very profound. And
that's about someone sitting with themselves
and going, what feels good to me? That doesn't
feel good. Don't want that. Nope. And only accepting
and receiving what feels good. That is so profound
because that is the healing that I think we need
as Black women because we were conditioned and
raised to serve others. To take it, yes. And
to serve others. Oh, you just blew my mind. You
just literally blew my mind. That's incredible.
What's the lady's name again? Can you spell it
for me? K -A -S -I -A Urbaniak. U -R -B -A -N
-I -A -K. I will definitely be looking her work
up. That is a very profound perspective. Thank
you for sharing that. Oh, yeah. And that's amazing.
And six weeks in Bali. Yeah. Sign me up for that
one. You know, it's you probably spend less money
there than you spent in America. Yes. I always
tell people traveling abroad is cheaper than
going to New York for a week. Sometimes just
staying home in your house. So as we close out,
I have one final question to ask you and what
is your hope for the future for black women?
I believe that the world is evolving towards
higher levels of everything. So I think it is
automatically going to get better. And I think
what I hope for everyone is that we grow in trusting
our instinct. because it is always right for
us, even when it's wrong. If it's wrong and you
followed it, you're still building your instinctive,
your trust in your instinctive self. And that
is the most important thing to do because you
got to live with you forever. Yes. I am truly
my favorite company. Can you please put that
on a t -shirt? I enjoy myself more than I enjoy
anybody else in the world. So being alone, being
by myself, I am so for it. That doesn't mean
that sometimes I don't want to be around other
people, but like the pandemic was fabulous to
me. Okay. Quietly. Yes. Well, you have been a
pleasure and it has been an honor to speak with
you. Thank you so much. I will ring your name.
I would like she needs to be up on the top of
the list of all the people. Oh, thank you. I
appreciate that so much. It's very kind. And
how can people find you and know about your latest
projects? You know, I'm on all the social medias.
At Tanya Pinkins on Twitter, Instagram, what
other one? LinkedIn. I have a website and I try
to keep it up to date. I'm not real good at that,
but I do try and yeah. And everybody she's all
over YouTube. Just put her name in the search
engine and you will find you'll find. great interviews,
you will find great performances, and you will
get to dive deep into her world like I did, and
you will thoroughly enjoy it. Thank you, Miss
Pinkins. You got to try the Red Pill game and
see if you could survive the world of Red Pill.
It's on the Red Pill website. Beautiful. Thank
you again, and thank you for joining us on the
Black Women Amplified podcast. Thank you for
listening to Black Women Amplified. We hope you
enjoyed the show. Be sure to subscribe and log
on to blackwomenamplified .com for more information.
Keep shining.