WEBVTT 00:00:00.330 --> 00:00:03.609 This is the story of the one. As a custodial 00:00:03.609 --> 00:00:05.990 supervisor at a high school, he knows that during 00:00:05.990 --> 00:00:09.089 cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's 00:00:09.089 --> 00:00:11.689 why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked 00:00:11.689 --> 00:00:14.269 on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues 00:00:14.269 --> 00:00:17.230 to disinfectants to floor scrubbers. All so that 00:00:17.230 --> 00:00:19.609 he can help students, staff, and teachers stay 00:00:19.609 --> 00:00:23.269 healthy and focused. Call 1 -800 -GRAINGER, click 00:00:23.269 --> 00:00:26.289 grainger .com, or just stop by. Grainger, for 00:00:26.289 --> 00:00:31.500 the ones who get it done. This is the story of 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:34.039 the one. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:37.119 facility, he knows keeping the line up and running 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:40.380 is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger. 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:43.119 Because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.619 makes it easy to find the exact specs for the 00:00:45.619 --> 00:00:48.039 replacement product he needs. And next day delivery 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.780 helps ensure he'll have everything in place and 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:53.240 running like clockwork. Call 1 -800 -GRAINGER, 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:56.240 click Grainger .com, or just stop by. Grainger, 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:09.560 for the ones who get it done. Welcome, and thank 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:12.359 you for tuning in to Black Women Amplified, the 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:15.640 podcast. Your host, Monica Wisdom Tyson, brings 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:18.500 you downloadable conversations that matter to 00:01:18.500 --> 00:01:21.700 women around the globe. We discuss all things 00:01:21.700 --> 00:01:25.599 Black girl magic, amplify our voices, and transform 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.879 our challenges into triumphs. Monica calls on 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.420 her league of extraordinary women to push our 00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:35.480 boundaries, share their expertise, and stories 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:38.980 of personal transformation. Welcome your host 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:42.739 of Black Women Amplified, Monica Wisdom Tyson. 00:01:48.340 --> 00:01:51.040 Hello, Black Women Amplified family. This is 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:54.000 your girl, Monica Wisdom, and I have a very special 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:57.640 guest in the building, and I can't wait to share 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.959 her with you. Jane Allen joins us for another 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.420 incredible conversation. And if you have heard 00:02:05.420 --> 00:02:08.069 her speak... you know that her brilliance leaves 00:02:08.069 --> 00:02:11.669 a lasting mark. A five -time best -selling author 00:02:11.669 --> 00:02:16.030 who centers Black women in every word, Jane is 00:02:16.030 --> 00:02:18.990 living the dream and she's bringing us along 00:02:18.990 --> 00:02:21.990 with her. From her beloved Black Girl series 00:02:21.990 --> 00:02:26.569 to one of my personal favorites, The Most Wonderful 00:02:26.569 --> 00:02:30.330 Time, Jane creates stories that reflect our truth, 00:02:30.550 --> 00:02:33.629 our joy, and our complexity. And she does it 00:02:33.629 --> 00:02:38.030 all with heart, depth, and humor. Her work reminds 00:02:38.030 --> 00:02:41.770 us that we are not alone, that we matter, and 00:02:41.770 --> 00:02:45.430 that our stories deserve the spotlight. And now 00:02:45.430 --> 00:02:48.930 the queen of trilogies, as I call her, is back 00:02:48.930 --> 00:02:52.349 with a bold new chapter. She is teaming up with 00:02:52.349 --> 00:02:54.949 the iconic director and filmmaker Malcolm D. 00:02:55.069 --> 00:02:59.270 Lee to expand the best man film and television 00:02:59.270 --> 00:03:02.750 universe into the literary world. through the 00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:05.930 Best Man book series, beginning with book one, 00:03:06.150 --> 00:03:10.430 The Best Man Unfinished Business. We're talking 00:03:10.430 --> 00:03:13.990 about an intimate return to Harper, Robin, and 00:03:13.990 --> 00:03:17.150 Jordan, a deeper dive into their lives, their 00:03:17.150 --> 00:03:19.909 growth, and the evolution of these characters 00:03:19.909 --> 00:03:24.189 that we have loved for decades. Today, we celebrate 00:03:24.189 --> 00:03:27.370 Jane's success and her remarkable journey from 00:03:27.370 --> 00:03:29.669 entertainment attorney to author and beyond. 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:34.189 She is not just building a career. Jane is building 00:03:34.189 --> 00:03:39.449 a legacy. So tap in, turn it up, and give a warm 00:03:39.449 --> 00:03:42.930 Black Women Amplified welcome to the one and 00:03:42.930 --> 00:03:49.490 only Jane Allen. Hello, Jane. How are you today? 00:03:50.090 --> 00:03:53.349 I am doing wonderful. How are you doing? Wonderfully. 00:03:53.949 --> 00:03:56.849 Wonderfully. Yes, I'm doing really great and 00:03:56.849 --> 00:03:59.050 I'm excited to have you here. Third time is a 00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:01.530 charm. I can't believe you are on your third 00:04:01.530 --> 00:04:03.750 project and I get to talk to you about it. I'm 00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:07.169 very excited about that. Thank you. This is my 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:11.430 fifth project, but yes, I am very excited for 00:04:11.430 --> 00:04:15.110 this one. Your fifth book. Yes. But you had the 00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:18.170 trilogy. Yeah. You had the standalone book and 00:04:18.170 --> 00:04:21.069 now you have the beginnings of the trilogy. Yes. 00:04:21.110 --> 00:04:23.550 My very first co -write. Oh, my God. I can't 00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:25.269 wait to get into that because I don't know how 00:04:25.269 --> 00:04:28.970 you do that. We can talk about it. We can talk 00:04:28.970 --> 00:04:31.290 about it. Yeah. And, you know, I have a million 00:04:31.290 --> 00:04:33.430 questions, but I know that you are on a deadline. 00:04:33.569 --> 00:04:36.089 And so we're going to get into talking about 00:04:36.089 --> 00:04:39.050 all things Jane Allen and all things unfinished 00:04:39.050 --> 00:04:42.529 business. Yes. But before we get into unfinished 00:04:42.529 --> 00:04:45.490 business, I want to get into your business. And 00:04:45.490 --> 00:04:49.209 please share with us a bit about your journey 00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:51.689 before you became an author. Well, that's a long 00:04:51.689 --> 00:04:54.910 story, but I will summarize it. I started out 00:04:54.910 --> 00:04:56.670 as an attorney. I was in the music industry. 00:04:57.209 --> 00:05:00.670 And I wound up taking some unconventional, well, 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:02.769 that was already unconventional, but I wound 00:05:02.769 --> 00:05:05.329 up making some unconventional choices because 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:08.470 that really wasn't the right fit for me. So I 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:11.290 wound up working with Lady Gaga during the Born 00:05:11.290 --> 00:05:15.189 This Way album release. I wound up being hired 00:05:15.189 --> 00:05:19.019 by Prince to be part of his team. I wound up 00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:21.860 coming into a cosmetics company to do, to basically 00:05:21.860 --> 00:05:24.740 turn the business around and rebrand and reposition 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:26.720 the product, which were excellent, excellent 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.399 anti -aging products. So I wound up going to 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:31.500 esthetician school, getting an esthetician's 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:35.860 license and a certificate. I'm a certified esthetician 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:39.839 and well, not certified. A licensed esthetician, 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.199 I guess. But wound up taking the product line 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:47.100 to QVC and launching that there. Let's not skip 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:50.120 over the fact that you're a Harvard lawyer. Oh, 00:05:50.139 --> 00:05:53.379 okay. Well, yes. So many other things have happened 00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:56.110 since then. I know, but we have to put that in 00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:00.550 there. It's so long ago that I graduated. I was 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:02.930 embarrassing. I'm like, oh goodness, let me just 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:06.250 forget about that. Because when there are dates 00:06:06.250 --> 00:06:08.910 attached to some stuff and the time has been 00:06:08.910 --> 00:06:11.269 a little bit longer than I feel particularly 00:06:11.269 --> 00:06:14.810 good about. Like, yeah, I went to law school. 00:06:15.980 --> 00:06:19.040 But yes, that was a wonderful experience completely. 00:06:19.300 --> 00:06:22.199 And actually was one of the first opportunities 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.180 for me to have a purpose behind writing something 00:06:26.180 --> 00:06:28.439 creatively. I was supposed to write a thesis 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.819 to graduate from law school. That was supposed 00:06:30.819 --> 00:06:32.740 to be a research paper. And I was able to do 00:06:32.740 --> 00:06:35.920 a screenplay. So that was the first time where 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.319 creative writing actually had a substantive requirement 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:42.220 to it. It was one of my graduation requirements. 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.600 thesis advisor, you know, had benchmarks that 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.839 I had to meet for the screenplay to be acceptable, 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.180 but it did qualify to graduate from Harvard Law. 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:56.000 So very few people, I think, know that. And then 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.220 after the cosmetics company, I'd started writing 00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:03.000 books in earnest. You know, it felt like my offer 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.920 back to people. I've been on this kind of wild 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.300 ride of a life and I'm very grateful for it. 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.399 It has taught me so much that I think. maybe 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.319 uncommon lessons in a way. And so I felt like 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.600 my books would be my offering back to my community, 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:23.480 to people who, you know, I felt like could benefit 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.019 from some of the things that, not necessarily 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:28.660 the experience itself, but the takeaways, you 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:30.939 know, after I processed it and kind of thought, 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:33.720 what did this experience teach me? And what do 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.879 I have to share? That's what motivated me to 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:39.139 start writing books. So you have had, like you 00:07:39.139 --> 00:07:41.480 said, you've taken a journey through many careers 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:46.240 and have excelled in all of them. You know, it 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:47.819 wasn't like you were, you know, working at a 00:07:47.819 --> 00:07:50.319 burger joint and then you started writing books. 00:07:50.420 --> 00:07:52.160 I mean, you're working with icons like Prince 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:55.839 and Lady Gaga and you're graduating from Harvard 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:58.420 and you're planting the seeds of your future 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:02.439 at the university, at this top university. But 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:06.500 you did pivot in many different directions that. 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:08.750 are not connected to one another specifically. 00:08:09.550 --> 00:08:12.870 So because a lot of Black women are in, we're 00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:14.750 in this era where there's a lot of pivot, whether 00:08:14.750 --> 00:08:19.949 it's forced or choice, what is your process of 00:08:19.949 --> 00:08:24.230 going into a different career? And how do you 00:08:24.230 --> 00:08:26.350 pick where you're going? Or does it just happen 00:08:26.350 --> 00:08:28.870 and you do the, make the best of it? Or are you 00:08:28.870 --> 00:08:32.100 very intentional of your next step? It's so funny 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:34.440 that you're asking me this because I'm actually 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.080 working on a nonfiction project right now kind 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.019 of about this, about not necessarily the pivot, 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.059 but having to pick a new direction and do that 00:08:45.059 --> 00:08:47.240 successfully when things don't go the way that 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.740 you expect. And I'm very intentional. I do actually 00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:53.799 have a process. And I've been through so many 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:58.759 situations where I've had to rethink, pick up 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:01.769 pieces from opportunities that didn't work out 00:09:01.769 --> 00:09:04.230 the way that I thought that it's clear for me 00:09:04.230 --> 00:09:07.750 exactly what to do. And I think the bottom line 00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:09.830 of it, the first step for me always is having 00:09:09.830 --> 00:09:13.289 a clear vision and knowing where do I want to 00:09:13.289 --> 00:09:17.389 go? And the question that I ask myself that I 00:09:17.389 --> 00:09:20.009 think is difficult for a lot of people to even 00:09:20.009 --> 00:09:23.590 approach, strangely enough, is what do you want? 00:09:24.220 --> 00:09:27.460 and asking myself you know what do I want or 00:09:27.460 --> 00:09:29.659 someone asking them I ask people all the time 00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:32.879 what do you want you'd be shocked or maybe not 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.279 but it's it's surprising to me every time that 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.220 people can't answer that question so it takes 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:42.000 a lot of work to actually know that for yourself 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.590 what do I want right now And it doesn't have 00:09:44.590 --> 00:09:46.230 to be what you're going to want in 10 years. 00:09:46.269 --> 00:09:47.730 It doesn't have to be what you wanted yesterday. 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:51.309 You know, it may change next week. But just getting, 00:09:51.529 --> 00:09:54.370 pinning down what it is that you want right now 00:09:54.370 --> 00:09:57.990 is, to me, the first step in any kind of pivot 00:09:57.990 --> 00:10:01.850 or picking up the pieces from something that 00:10:01.850 --> 00:10:05.450 didn't go as expected, for sure. So what are 00:10:05.450 --> 00:10:08.009 some of the missteps that you made when you were 00:10:08.009 --> 00:10:10.750 going in different directions? You know, it's 00:10:10.750 --> 00:10:13.659 hard. call anything a misstep because I feel 00:10:13.659 --> 00:10:18.240 like it has worked out but I think that things 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.639 didn't go as expected many many times when I 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:25.539 there were opportunities that I thought were 00:10:25.539 --> 00:10:27.799 going to be more stable like I worked in startups 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:31.100 for many jobs I was in startups for many years 00:10:31.100 --> 00:10:33.990 and there was so much instability that I had 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:36.190 not accounted for. And I thought, okay, this 00:10:36.190 --> 00:10:38.090 is well -funded, so this is going to go well. 00:10:38.269 --> 00:10:41.110 But that doesn't necessarily mean, well -funded 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.190 does not necessarily mean that there's a lot 00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:45.769 of runway. You can spend a lot of money in a 00:10:45.769 --> 00:10:48.049 year with a startup. Or it doesn't necessarily 00:10:48.049 --> 00:10:51.750 mean that your decisions and what you would do 00:10:51.750 --> 00:10:54.809 is what the management decides to do. And so 00:10:54.809 --> 00:10:57.049 sometimes you're just in this unstable situation 00:10:57.049 --> 00:11:00.860 and you're also at the mercy of... someone else's 00:11:00.860 --> 00:11:04.740 choices and decisions. So for me, one of the 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:07.559 earliest lessons I learned was to always have 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.220 my own thing going, always. So no matter what 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:13.659 I was doing for someone else, never lose sight 00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:16.299 of what my own mission was and to always have 00:11:16.299 --> 00:11:19.700 my own project. So that was a mistake I made 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:22.600 early on that I rectified early on and have not 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:28.169 deviated from since. Hence you working on a manuscript. 00:11:29.230 --> 00:11:34.710 At all times. At all times. So talk to us about, 00:11:34.830 --> 00:11:37.549 I find it fascinating how in the beginning of 00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.549 your, you said you wrote books. This is the story 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:44.370 of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high 00:11:44.370 --> 00:11:46.809 school, he knows that during cold and flu season, 00:11:46.970 --> 00:11:49.789 germs spread fast. It's why he partners with 00:11:49.789 --> 00:11:51.990 Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:55.070 and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants 00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:58.049 to floor scrubbers. All so that he can help students, 00:11:58.090 --> 00:12:00.570 staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused. 00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:04.110 Call 1 -800 -GRAINGER, click grainger .com, or 00:12:04.110 --> 00:12:07.190 just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:13.669 it done. On the job, every minute counts. That's 00:12:13.669 --> 00:12:16.149 why Lowe's now has ProBlock Quick -Dry Primer, 00:12:16.230 --> 00:12:19.070 expertly manufactured by Sherwin -Williams. Engineered 00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:21.850 for pros to drive fast and go on smooth for virtually 00:12:21.850 --> 00:12:24.549 flawless results that keep your job moving. It's 00:12:24.549 --> 00:12:26.629 available in oil and water -based, and getting 00:12:26.629 --> 00:12:29.309 it is easy. Order online by 2 p .m. and get free 00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:32.289 same -day delivery right to your job site. Lowe's. 00:12:32.389 --> 00:12:35.269 We help. You save. Orders placed after 2 p .m. 00:12:35.269 --> 00:12:37.049 will be delivered next day. Valid in select zip 00:12:37.049 --> 00:12:39.029 codes. Subject to driver availability. More terms 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:41.850 apply. Did you write a book before the Black 00:12:41.850 --> 00:12:44.690 Girl Magic trilogy? I'm calling it the Black 00:12:44.690 --> 00:12:49.129 Girl Magic trilogy. I did. I'd written nonfiction 00:12:49.129 --> 00:12:52.590 books. I wrote about social media. I wrote about 00:12:52.590 --> 00:12:55.490 time management. Some of the books I published, 00:12:55.549 --> 00:12:58.330 some of them I didn't. I was just teaching myself 00:12:58.330 --> 00:13:01.490 how to write books. You know, so the best way 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:06.149 to learn is to do. And so I just set it. First 00:13:06.149 --> 00:13:08.919 book I wrote, I wrote in my office. because I 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.840 had to be at work, you know, but needed to do 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:15.779 something else with my brain. And so in my downtime, 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.100 I would just, you know, start working on a manuscript. 00:13:19.899 --> 00:13:21.720 to make sure I could get to a book length for 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.019 manuscript and encapsulate a full idea. It was 00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:26.940 nonfiction. I never published that book, but 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:30.360 I printed, I wrote it. I had it in manuscript 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.820 layout, you know, publishing layout. I got it 00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:35.559 printed, everything. And I just gave copies away 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.799 to people because I just wanted to prove to myself 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:43.500 that what. My thought was about what I could 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:45.460 do and couldn't do, because at that time, my 00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:48.039 belief was that I could not write a book, believe 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:51.500 it or not. And so I just wanted to test that 00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:55.039 belief. And so the low stakes version of that 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:57.960 was to see if I could write a book, which I did, 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.240 and then, you know, get it printed. And I didn't 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:02.779 have to publish it, but, you know, I gave it 00:14:02.779 --> 00:14:04.639 away to people and they thought it was pretty 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.899 good. You know, it just tapped me on my shoulder 00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:10.500 and said, good job. You know, it was pretty good. 00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:14.960 It was worth $3 .99. Now you have a dynamic way 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.500 of writing characters and you have two dynamic 00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:21.960 main characters in your Black Girls Must series, 00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:26.679 the trilogy, and as well as the book that I'm 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.639 completely in love with. Oh, the most wonderful 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.659 time. The most wonderful time. And I am waiting 00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:38.179 on this to become at least a duel. Because I 00:14:38.179 --> 00:14:40.539 need to know what happens to Ramona and Jake. 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:43.340 Oh, really? Okay. I'll keep that in mind. So 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:47.080 Tabitha Walker is a dynamic woman, as well as 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:51.580 Ramona Tucker. How did you go into writing their 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:54.100 worlds? And why was it important to tell their 00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:57.460 stories? Well, with Black Girls Must Have Gossip, 00:14:57.559 --> 00:14:59.159 which is the first book in the Black Girls trilogy, 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:01.279 Black Girls Must Be Magic and Black Girls Must 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.259 Have It All, I wanted to celebrate Black women. 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.799 That was my first goal, first and foremost. And 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.399 I wanted to celebrate us for all of the aspects 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.779 of who we are, including and especially the aspects 00:15:14.779 --> 00:15:19.139 that people would say societally are ugly, less 00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:22.980 than or damaged or whatever. I wanted to celebrate 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:26.059 and highlight. all of it and all of us. And so 00:15:26.059 --> 00:15:29.580 with Tabby, she is a character that allowed me 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.460 to do that. And I'm really grateful to Tabby 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:34.159 because I put her through a lot of horrible things. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:39.580 But ultimately, it's all about the happy ending 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.700 and I don't write unresolved trauma. And I think 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.419 the happy ending, when I say it's all about the 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:47.220 happy ending, I mean the happiest ending for 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:49.419 that character, not like a conventional happy 00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:52.889 ending where it's just kind of... formulaic like 00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:55.690 this is how it's supposed to go my character's 00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:58.970 happy endings may not look like that because 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:01.610 for them what their happy ending like the best 00:16:01.610 --> 00:16:05.110 thing for them may not be getting the guy and 00:16:05.110 --> 00:16:07.129 the marriage and the whatever that like that 00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.210 their happy ending might be something completely 00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:12.049 different but it's what they need or they most 00:16:12.049 --> 00:16:15.690 want so or that's the adventure that they should 00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:20.299 be on you know for now So Tabby was a character 00:16:20.299 --> 00:16:24.399 that allowed me to show a lot of things about 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:25.919 Black women that I don't feel like we get to 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.399 show. Like, she's very uncertain about a lot 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.759 of things. She doesn't have it all together. 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:34.259 She kind of falls apart sometimes. She's flawed 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.139 in a lot of ways that we don't get permission 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:41.779 to be as Black women in society. And so I wanted 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:45.580 to give us that and give her the space and support 00:16:45.580 --> 00:16:49.580 to be all of that. And not have it be too much, 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:53.399 not have it be, you know, her downfall or demise, 00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:56.840 you know, that she can build from there and be 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.659 imperfect and still win. And so that was really 00:16:59.659 --> 00:17:02.259 important to me to show with Tabby Walker and 00:17:02.259 --> 00:17:04.359 her story with the Black, throughout the trilogy. 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:07.759 Because, I mean, it's a saga. It's a long journey 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.160 for Tabby. And then for Ramona Tucker. Same kind 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.980 of thing, but a different kind of woman. Ramona 00:17:14.980 --> 00:17:17.240 had it all together. She very much had it all 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.579 together, but it all falls apart. And then she 00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:22.160 has to find another version of having it together 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.240 that is more authentic to herself. Once she did 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.480 all the things she was supposed to do, and then 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.839 that didn't really come together in the way that 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.039 she thought, getting outside of... not just those 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:36.460 boxes and the box, but just getting outside of 00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:39.619 her space, of her world, of her, you know, everything 00:17:39.619 --> 00:17:42.400 that she'd known to be presented with something 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.640 completely new and being able to find herself 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:51.220 accepted in a new space, in a new way. I wanted 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.759 to show that. I mean, I just put her in all kinds 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.920 of new situations. And I think she's a character 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.430 that... anybody should be able to live through, 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:03.009 but Blackwood in particular, I love the idea 00:18:03.009 --> 00:18:06.750 of being able to put them in Ramona's shoes and 00:18:06.750 --> 00:18:08.930 put them in those spaces and be loved on in that 00:18:08.930 --> 00:18:12.230 way and to be embraced by the ocean in that way 00:18:12.230 --> 00:18:16.150 and to find the way forward in the way that she 00:18:16.150 --> 00:18:19.150 does. I love Ramona Tucker as a character. I 00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:21.509 love her journey. I was so happy with how that 00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:23.569 book came out. I didn't know how it was going 00:18:23.569 --> 00:18:27.000 to go, but I just love it. I love it. Yeah, I 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.779 loved it, too. And it was the first time I had 00:18:28.779 --> 00:18:31.319 heard about the Black Surfing Organization. Oh, 00:18:31.339 --> 00:18:34.180 yes. And I loved how all the research that you 00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:37.359 did to make sure it was a rank true. Yeah. So 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.140 that when they read it, they saw themselves. 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.440 And it defied the myths of Black folks don't 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.859 swim. We do swim. We do. We do. And have always. 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.720 And have always. And have always. Now you are 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.250 walking into this new space. You build worlds, 00:18:54.269 --> 00:18:56.549 but now you're walking into the best man galaxy. 00:18:57.289 --> 00:19:02.630 And not only is it a galaxy, but it's a 25 year 00:19:02.630 --> 00:19:06.470 legacy. Yes. And how are you able to walk into 00:19:06.470 --> 00:19:08.670 that space? And what was the phone call that 00:19:08.670 --> 00:19:11.039 you got for the invitation? Well, those are two 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.660 different questions. The first was that the outreach, 00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:18.160 Malcolm, Malcolm D. Lee, the writer, director, 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.119 creator of The Best Man, his agent reached out 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.259 to me and asked if I might be interested in writing 00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:29.640 The Best Man books. I was like, what? So I didn't 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.059 even think it was, I was like, of course, yes, 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.799 this is amazing. I couldn't even imagine something 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:38.859 better for me in particular, but also just as 00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:42.049 a project. And so I said it to my agent. I was 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:45.250 like, is this real? Can you bring that up? Is 00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.329 this AI or is this real? Is somebody playing 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:51.589 with me? Like, does AI know me too well? So, 00:19:51.589 --> 00:19:54.710 yeah, so she's like, yeah, you know, eventually 00:19:54.710 --> 00:19:56.549 it came to a point where I had a conversation 00:19:56.549 --> 00:19:59.619 with Malcolm. We really had a good. opportunity 00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:02.259 to speak. And I was just, I was very excited 00:20:02.259 --> 00:20:05.259 about it. And then in subsequent conversation, 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:06.880 because we kind of just talked through what the 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:11.140 project would be and what his expectations were, 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:14.559 what was he trying to create? And he has said 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.339 that the question I asked him, I think in his 00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:19.599 second call, I was like, I was just thinking 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:21.299 through this and I was like, okay, this is gonna 00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:24.400 be a huge undertaking. It's gonna be so challenging. 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.740 I think people don't realize. When you have existing 00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:33.380 characters with a 25 -year history that everybody 00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:37.099 knows these characters, the first opportunity 00:20:37.099 --> 00:20:42.140 to meet these characters was on screen, not on 00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:46.200 the page. And then you need to give people the 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:50.940 same cinematic value or higher with already established 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:55.140 characters in a book. Like, this is, I mean, 00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:02.019 if you're like... Final Jeopardy. Like the hardest 00:21:02.019 --> 00:21:05.700 thing you could possibly imagine doing. This 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:10.099 would be it. Like epic soundtrack, best man circa 00:21:10.099 --> 00:21:14.539 1999, epic soundtrack, amazing, gorgeous actors, 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:17.920 incredible screenwriting performances, all of 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.440 it, immaculate quality and excellence. And now 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:25.160 we have to create that experience at that level 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.559 for. in a reader's mind with just black and white 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:33.519 words on a page. Are you serious? And not only 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.339 that, these are characters we grew up with. We 00:21:36.339 --> 00:21:40.480 chronologically grew up with them. They were 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.619 always at the same stage of life. Everybody knows. 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:47.200 So I was just like, oh my gosh, this is going 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.720 to be so challenging. I'm here for it. But the 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:53.759 one question that I had for him, I was like, 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.519 do you want to win? And he was like, what? He 00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.799 was a little taken. But he was like, well, yeah, 00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.500 I want to win, you know, and that. But the question 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:04.779 I was asking him was like, are you going to go 00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:06.660 all in with me? Because I was like, I just knew 00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:10.180 this was going to require an all in approach. 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:12.259 Like it wasn't going to be something that we 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:14.660 could halfway do or, you know, or just like kind 00:22:14.660 --> 00:22:17.559 of have at it and see how it goes. Like it would 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:21.140 have to go well and by any means necessary kind 00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:23.640 of way, you know. And I just knew what that was 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.380 going to take. And so I knew I would go all the 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.480 way. And I just wanted to hear from him that 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:31.680 that was what he was anticipating this would 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.660 be. And so that was what we did. I mean, we went 00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:37.880 all in. We worked together for a year. We worked 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.140 so, so intensively on this project. And what 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:45.480 I will say for sure, as I've gotten to know him, 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.359 is that he has been the custodian of excellence 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:54.059 for this. for 25 years, unwaveringly. And nothing 00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:57.460 has changed about what this book is in continuation 00:22:57.460 --> 00:23:01.559 of that standard. But to really get to work with 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:05.019 somebody whose custodianship is so immaculate 00:23:05.019 --> 00:23:08.299 and whose standard of excellence is so high and 00:23:08.299 --> 00:23:11.480 so immaculate, for me as a writer, that's a dream. 00:23:11.930 --> 00:23:15.250 And beyond having the opportunity to write cinematically 00:23:15.250 --> 00:23:19.190 and work and think more cinematically and to 00:23:19.190 --> 00:23:21.869 think how a director would think and to write 00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:25.509 into that space and to try to craft this as an 00:23:25.509 --> 00:23:28.450 experience for somebody who might even not be 00:23:28.450 --> 00:23:30.789 a reader, but who might be a screen, you know, 00:23:30.809 --> 00:23:33.789 who is a screen first person. But to kind of 00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:36.390 bring them into this kind of way of experiencing, 00:23:36.829 --> 00:23:39.470 it's absolutely been incredible. So I feel so 00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:41.980 fortunate. So happy that people are enjoying 00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:45.440 the work. I hope people understand how challenging 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:50.559 it was. But we had to come through for the folks. 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.940 You did. And you did. Because let me tell you, 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.240 I was like, ooh, how are they going to do that? 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:01.079 Because they're already fully formed people. 00:24:01.460 --> 00:24:04.440 It's like having to go back to the beginning 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.789 again. With fully formed people that you can't 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:10.109 take them back to being a baby. Right. You know, 00:24:10.130 --> 00:24:12.269 you can't take them back to those childhood days 00:24:12.269 --> 00:24:15.369 or those young college days when we first met 00:24:15.369 --> 00:24:19.289 them. Right. You know, as silly young people, 00:24:19.349 --> 00:24:22.450 just all the things. And then the TV show, you 00:24:22.450 --> 00:24:25.950 see them getting married. And now in the book, 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:28.569 their kids are in college. So you get to see 00:24:28.569 --> 00:24:30.509 a full scope of them. And then how do you take 00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:32.609 them to three more books, you know, three books? 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:36.349 But if anybody can do it, it's the queen of trilogies. 00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:40.890 That's hilarious. Well, you know what? The interesting 00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:43.390 thing about this and those characters that I 00:24:43.390 --> 00:24:45.130 was thinking about this, you know, they're very, 00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:49.089 very successful people in their midlife, in their 00:24:49.089 --> 00:24:51.269 mid -50s. I mean, you have Jordan, who was the 00:24:51.269 --> 00:24:56.630 vice chairman of MSNBC. So even just that position. 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:00.440 what that world looks like, what that realistically 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.759 looks like. You know, there's just certain things 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:06.400 that you have to. kind of know or to be able 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.460 to depict somebody who's living this life experience 00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:12.200 in that world and in that space. And these are 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:14.819 wildly successful. They're very mature people. 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:17.400 So when you're trying to continue their journey 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.359 authentically, you really have to pull from a 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:25.099 place. So I'm glad you asked what was my career 00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:27.420 like before writing, because there were just 00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:29.720 certain things that thankfully we could pull 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.730 from to. depict where these people would be that 00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:35.710 that is a progression from what you've already 00:25:35.710 --> 00:25:38.329 seen but it's that's very you know you've got 00:25:38.329 --> 00:25:41.630 a professional all -star a pro bowler in Lance 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.450 Sullivan and he's living life after the NFL you 00:25:44.450 --> 00:25:47.950 know so you have to really bring what this type 00:25:47.950 --> 00:25:50.990 of person would really realistically be like 00:25:50.990 --> 00:25:53.990 and and you know what their maturity and their 00:25:53.990 --> 00:25:56.529 expectations and to construct a world around 00:25:56.529 --> 00:26:00.440 them and and Harper Stuart won the Pulitzer. 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.539 These are not just, this is not like - Regular 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.339 folk. Yeah, exactly. And he's 50 plus, you know? 00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:10.099 So there's a certain level of maturity and evolution 00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:14.400 that really has to be reached for. And the levels 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.480 of Black excellence that we had to strive for 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.759 here and bring into the pages was kind of epic. 00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:23.319 So there was a lot that went into it for sure. 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:28.730 Did you know that Black Women Amplified has a 00:26:28.730 --> 00:26:32.990 private membership? Yes, and I am inviting you 00:26:32.990 --> 00:26:37.309 to become a founding member of the Queens Clubhouse, 00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:40.710 a sanctuary for Black women to connect, grow, 00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:44.009 and shine. From behind the scenes conversations 00:26:44.009 --> 00:26:48.029 to our crown book club, this is a space for you 00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:51.769 to take off your cape, recharge, and be celebrated. 00:26:52.509 --> 00:26:56.910 It takes place on Patreon. So please visit queen 00:26:56.910 --> 00:27:01.970 .blackwomenamplified .com to learn more and to 00:27:01.970 --> 00:27:06.990 join. And I can tell, I mean, I can't imagine. 00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:09.109 You're both coming from two different worlds, 00:27:09.150 --> 00:27:11.930 you and Malcolm Lee. He's a filmmaker and you're 00:27:11.930 --> 00:27:15.730 a writer. How did you connect those elements 00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:18.769 together? Because he writes from the bigger picture. 00:27:19.369 --> 00:27:22.670 And you go into the details of each person and 00:27:22.670 --> 00:27:24.789 you're creating their whole worlds. How did that 00:27:24.789 --> 00:27:27.109 connect? And what was that process like? That's 00:27:27.109 --> 00:27:30.430 a really good question. We were, we had a lot 00:27:30.430 --> 00:27:33.470 of conversations to start and the conversations 00:27:33.470 --> 00:27:37.549 were about life, about understanding from a fundamental 00:27:37.549 --> 00:27:40.829 human perspective, certain circumstances that. 00:27:41.230 --> 00:27:43.329 Either we saw on the screen or that has been 00:27:43.329 --> 00:27:46.130 part of the story that has unfolded to this point 00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.390 or some of the things that we've seen from some 00:27:48.390 --> 00:27:50.349 of the characters. So then that's the opportunity 00:27:50.349 --> 00:27:53.289 to ask more questions and kind of excavate more 00:27:53.289 --> 00:27:56.009 story, create more story, create more backstory, 00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:59.869 blossom the story a little bit. more than what 00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:02.809 you get to do on screen. And so that was just 00:28:02.809 --> 00:28:05.630 in conversation and thinking through from a human 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:07.970 perspective and what we know about humanity, 00:28:08.369 --> 00:28:10.970 what we can pull from the character. And Malcolm 00:28:10.970 --> 00:28:14.849 is really a repository of, he knows these characters 00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:19.190 so well. So to be able to ask him, well, why 00:28:19.190 --> 00:28:21.269 would this person think this? Or why would they 00:28:21.269 --> 00:28:24.500 say that? Any number of things that were important 00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:27.140 to the story or what's the story behind this? 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.859 You know, we need to tell that story. So we worked 00:28:29.859 --> 00:28:32.319 really well together in that way because he had 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.200 that information available. He knows those characters 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:39.640 inside and out and can voice them. And funny 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:41.259 thing was when we first started, because I was 00:28:41.259 --> 00:28:43.279 a little panicked because, you know, it's so 00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:46.000 funny naturally. Like the movies are so funny 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.640 and there's just a natural humor. And I was so 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.269 I was worried. I was like, well, how much? of 00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:57.089 what we saw on screen was improv. I was like, 00:28:57.289 --> 00:29:00.549 how are we going to re -implicate? He was like, 00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:02.829 no, that was all on the page. He's like, those 00:29:02.829 --> 00:29:05.109 were masterful performances. He's like, but that 00:29:05.109 --> 00:29:08.349 was all on the page. I was like, it was. Thank 00:29:08.349 --> 00:29:10.869 goodness. Thank goodness. And then when - Have 00:29:10.869 --> 00:29:13.990 you had him send you the screenplay? No, we didn't 00:29:13.990 --> 00:29:16.190 need the screenplay, but in writing the manuscript, 00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:19.769 it was amazing to see the dialogue take shape 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:22.700 because - And as a writer, when you're writing 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:27.759 dialogue, in the best, highest form of dialogue, 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.960 in the highest standard of excellence, you do 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.099 not need quotations. You do not need dialogue 00:29:34.099 --> 00:29:36.880 tags. You do not need to say who said it. You 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.160 should be able to know just from the words alone. 00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:42.599 That's the highest standard of dialogue. And 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.359 see, for me at least, I don't know, people can 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.369 feel free to disagree. But that's how I look 00:29:47.369 --> 00:29:50.490 at it. And when I saw the dialogue take shape, 00:29:50.490 --> 00:29:53.609 or sometimes I would see Malcolm add some dialogue 00:29:53.609 --> 00:29:57.109 in or see something, it was so clearly embodied 00:29:57.109 --> 00:30:00.609 in just those words, the character's voice. It 00:30:00.609 --> 00:30:03.089 was so clear. And you'll see in the book, which 00:30:03.089 --> 00:30:06.069 has gone through rounds and rounds and rounds 00:30:06.069 --> 00:30:09.609 of editing and refinement, but even just the 00:30:09.609 --> 00:30:12.680 raw. writing and the manuscript, you could, you 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.400 could hear the characters because he's just so 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.200 in tuned in to them and their voices. Yes. When 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.740 I was reading it, I'm a visual person. And so 00:30:20.740 --> 00:30:24.480 I could visualize Harper. I'm like, oh yeah, 00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:28.299 he, that's him, you know, or Robin. I'm like, 00:30:28.299 --> 00:30:30.759 yeah, she's always a little apprehensive about 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.480 life. And then Jordan. Yep. That's her. Yeah. 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.500 Yeah. Like when she was in the meeting and she 00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:41.039 was in her head, like, I'm Jordan MF and Armstrong. 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.880 I said, yep, that's her. Right. It's like, it's 00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:47.839 great to be able to be in their heads too. And 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.359 like to really get to know them. I just feel 00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:52.579 like it's such a great hang with these people 00:30:52.579 --> 00:30:54.599 where it just feels like you're really there 00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:58.079 with them. So as a fan of the movies, if you 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.519 are, you know, if somebody is, I am, and I love 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:02.180 reading the book. I was so excited to be done 00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:04.680 with it. So I go back and read it. So as many 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.319 times. I read it in editing. I'm not sick of 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.299 it. I started reading it again. I was listening 00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:11.460 to the audio book. I was like, I want to listen. 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:17.220 Who read the audio book? Oh, there's three. Don't 00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:19.200 give me the lines. There's three voice actors. 00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:23.339 Jacoby Dia, who everybody loves. It's like the 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.660 male voice actor that everybody loves him. Okay. 00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:27.720 And I don't have the names in front of me, but 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:29.839 there are three phenomenal voice actors. I've 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.640 heard nothing but rave reviews. I love when actors 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.940 read the audio book as opposed to the author 00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:40.299 reading it. Oh, yeah. The first book I read that 00:31:40.299 --> 00:31:42.779 was audio book was Zora Neale Hurston's book 00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:45.359 and Ruby Dee was reading it. Oh, yeah. And she 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.279 created all the characters. I was like, oh, this 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.440 is this is the best thing ever. Yeah, it's its 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.359 own art form. I think I have so much reverence 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.609 for the audio book. the readers and the format. 00:31:56.789 --> 00:31:58.289 I couldn't, people would ask me, are you going 00:31:58.289 --> 00:32:03.490 to do your audio book? I'm like, no. When you 00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:05.569 really have a strong character, when you really 00:32:05.569 --> 00:32:08.549 have a strong plot, it will take on a life of 00:32:08.549 --> 00:32:11.650 its own because you just know as an author that 00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:14.369 it almost becomes like a parallel reality where 00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:16.589 you're just the scribe, you know, you're just 00:32:16.589 --> 00:32:19.549 observing it. You know, you kind of can see how 00:32:19.549 --> 00:32:21.970 it would take shape and what you want it to be 00:32:21.970 --> 00:32:25.289 is not. you know, not the truth. So not the truth 00:32:25.289 --> 00:32:27.430 of it. So there were a lot of changes that happened 00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:29.509 in the course of writing that just, you know, 00:32:29.509 --> 00:32:31.589 as we realized it, as the story was unfolding, 00:32:31.730 --> 00:32:34.470 oh no, you know, this is the authentic way. So 00:32:34.470 --> 00:32:38.049 what you read is, is the most authentic truth 00:32:38.049 --> 00:32:40.769 that we could find for this story, for this book. 00:32:40.930 --> 00:32:44.509 And done beautifully. Now in this story, we get 00:32:44.509 --> 00:32:48.369 to see Robin and Donna and Jordan has moved on 00:32:48.369 --> 00:32:51.980 to Nestled in Malibu and Harper is trying to 00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:54.180 figure Harper out as he's always doing. Right. 00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:58.200 But I want to talk a little bit about Robin and 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.380 Jordan. They both took the time to choose themselves. 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.000 I might've been the only person that was happy 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.940 to see Robin leave Harper and go live her life. 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:09.720 I think I was the only person that said, yes, 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:11.660 girl. We met like five other people on book tour 00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:15.759 who also felt that way. Go, please save yourself. 00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:20.940 But I wanted to talk a little bit about the process 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:24.519 of choosing yourself and how important was that 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.539 in weaving that into this story? Well, I think 00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:30.660 you're seeing two different versions of that 00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:32.680 from two very different women. I think you're 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:35.960 seeing that from Jordan and Jordan's version 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:37.819 of that. And I think you're seeing it from Robin 00:33:37.819 --> 00:33:42.019 and Robin's version of that. Something very interesting 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:44.440 has come up in the conversations we've had with 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:48.599 readers where a lot of people can relate to Jordan's 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.000 version of choosing herself, even though it seems 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:55.240 unconventional. Because Jordan quit her job as 00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:58.420 the vice chairman of MSNBC and nobody forced 00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:01.059 her to do that. She chose herself and her health 00:34:01.059 --> 00:34:04.660 and she walked away. That is, you know, extreme. 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.139 And that is a controversial type of decision, 00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:10.320 but most people can relate to that and understand 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.679 that. And maybe because the health component 00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.320 was part of it. But what we've heard from readers 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.960 about Robin's journey is very, very different. 00:34:20.019 --> 00:34:24.090 And most people... just haven't really she gets 00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:27.489 under people's skin and in particular black women 00:34:27.489 --> 00:34:30.429 and so it's interesting to see that version of 00:34:30.429 --> 00:34:34.170 choosing yourself and why and ask ourselves well 00:34:34.170 --> 00:34:37.650 why does this one this unconventional version 00:34:37.650 --> 00:34:41.440 bother us so much you know this is You know, 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.000 arguably nothing went wrong. You know, Harper 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.380 still sees his daughter. You know, she's living 00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:50.500 her best life in Ghana. She chose to leave the 00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:53.460 country because it wasn't serving her to be here. 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.800 She made a choice for her daughter that she thought 00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:59.579 was the best one for both of them. And why did 00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:02.039 that bother us? Why does that bother us so much? 00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:07.429 You know, and what about Robin? Do we? gets under 00:35:07.429 --> 00:35:09.909 our skin. And what do we feel like she should 00:35:09.909 --> 00:35:12.329 be? And it made me think about Tabby a lot because 00:35:12.329 --> 00:35:13.989 there were conversations I have with readers 00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:17.550 about Tabby and she got under people's skin because 00:35:17.550 --> 00:35:21.230 we don't get that opportunity to be supported 00:35:21.230 --> 00:35:24.349 in being uncertain. We don't get that opportunity 00:35:24.349 --> 00:35:27.130 to think things are going to be okay if we don't 00:35:27.130 --> 00:35:30.190 have it all figured out. And so when we see somebody 00:35:30.190 --> 00:35:32.670 like that, it just triggers our panic button. 00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:35.840 And so, you know, I think that Robin's journey 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.340 in particular and Jordan's also, but the part 00:35:39.340 --> 00:35:41.400 of Robin's journey that might get under people's 00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:43.960 skin, I think it's a very good opportunity for 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.039 conversation. Well, it gets very, he's a good 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.139 man, Savannah. Like you should just stay. You 00:35:51.139 --> 00:35:54.199 have this successful man. He's got all the accoutrement 00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:58.039 of this Black excellence man. And you walk away 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:01.630 from it all to go live in. you know, what people 00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:04.690 perceive as a third world country, but they don't 00:36:04.690 --> 00:36:07.550 know the beauty and the, you know, the elegance 00:36:07.550 --> 00:36:11.090 of being in a cry and all the things. So, yeah, 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:13.190 I get that, but it is two very different journeys, 00:36:13.190 --> 00:36:15.090 but I was cheering for Robin. I was like, yes, 00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:19.469 go, bye. You can start a support group of people 00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:21.550 who feel similarly, and there will be like five 00:36:21.550 --> 00:36:24.429 people at your meeting. Well, you know, there's 00:36:24.429 --> 00:36:26.969 a whole mass exodus of Black women leaving the 00:36:26.969 --> 00:36:29.380 country now. I know, but I think that people 00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:32.039 have been feeling a way about Robin. I was like, 00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:35.599 okay, we're going to see. But it's been interesting. 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.639 I'm here for that conversation because I always 00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.519 want to know. Because I just remember with Tabby, 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:45.800 it was just interesting to sit in book clubs 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:48.440 and hear people talk about, I don't know, she 00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:49.760 just gets on my nerves. I'm like, well, what 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.980 about it? I'm like, do we have the grace as Black 00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:57.559 women in particular to not have it figured out? 00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:02.119 to to be messy because especially at that time 00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:03.760 I think we're having more conversations about 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:05.880 mental health now I think there's you know this 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.199 is eight years later or seven years later but 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.280 at that time I think we are still really scratching 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:16.940 you know at the surface of getting to the conversations 00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:20.980 around personal well -being and decision making 00:37:20.980 --> 00:37:25.179 that honors well -being over all the supposed 00:37:25.179 --> 00:37:28.679 to's And Jordan was leaving a job. So everybody 00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:31.480 has that. I can't wait to quit this job. But 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.000 then you're leaving a relationship. That's a 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.420 different conversation. Yeah. And you're taking 00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:39.840 your child away from her dad and all of those 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:44.159 pieces to it. So one thing I can say is unfinished 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:48.300 business is grown people's business. Because 00:37:48.300 --> 00:37:52.179 there were some unexpected groan moments. Right, 00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:55.199 right. So far, I've gotten through two. I'm like, 00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:56.940 oh, my God, I'm just halfway through this book. 00:37:57.260 --> 00:38:00.059 It's spicy. I just have one question. Was there 00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:03.880 a safe word when you were writing the copy? There 00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:06.900 was no holds barred in writing the copy. I mean, 00:38:06.980 --> 00:38:08.760 you know, there were moments where we had to 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.260 dial it back a little bit. But we really wanted 00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:14.750 to, you know, it's grown people. I think it's 00:38:14.750 --> 00:38:17.429 important to see grown people being grown. I 00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:19.489 mean, otherwise it's just inauthentic. And what 00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:22.809 I love about the, in particular, the steamy, 00:38:22.809 --> 00:38:25.130 intimate moments that you see in the book, they're 00:38:25.130 --> 00:38:28.670 really meant to be character explorations in 00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:31.710 the same vein as dialogue, in the same vein as 00:38:31.710 --> 00:38:34.269 seeing what decisions they make in any other 00:38:34.269 --> 00:38:36.829 kind of circumstance. So it's really meant to 00:38:36.829 --> 00:38:40.320 be kind of impactful. characterization opportunity 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:43.059 where you get to learn something about this character 00:38:43.059 --> 00:38:45.639 i mean yes it's a it's an intimate moment it's 00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:48.619 steamy it's cheeky it's you know it's body it's 00:38:48.619 --> 00:38:51.780 fun but it's also very much that character in 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:53.679 that moment you're you know you're learning a 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.380 lot or those characters or you know what's happening 00:38:56.380 --> 00:39:00.260 so it's really integral to the story it is part 00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:07.800 of the plot there is no gratuitous nudity i was 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:10.289 like no wait a minute We should have a warning 00:39:10.289 --> 00:39:14.690 just so I can have my glass of wine ready. Whatever 00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.409 else you need, glass of wine, whatever you need. 00:39:17.750 --> 00:39:20.030 But yeah, just, I mean, now, you know, if you 00:39:20.030 --> 00:39:22.489 see this book series, just have your picnic basket 00:39:22.489 --> 00:39:25.869 ready. But the way that it's written is very 00:39:25.869 --> 00:39:28.730 beautiful. Thank you. I can't think of the word 00:39:28.730 --> 00:39:30.789 now, but it's just very beautifully written. 00:39:30.849 --> 00:39:33.139 And it's just a natural progression. And the 00:39:33.139 --> 00:39:36.000 one thing I loved about this writing is, you 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.480 know, Harper in the TV series, he wasn't around 00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.380 a lot. And the only time you get to see him with 00:39:41.380 --> 00:39:45.139 emotion is if he's angry or he's doing something 00:39:45.139 --> 00:39:49.539 he has no business doing. So to hear his inner 00:39:49.539 --> 00:39:53.519 world is great because now you get to understand 00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:57.840 him better. And you get to see his process of 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.380 why he makes the decisions that he makes. So 00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:02.699 I think that's important that we get to see the 00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:05.139 inner world of Black men. Because that's where 00:40:05.139 --> 00:40:07.420 this franchise started was with the friends, 00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:10.559 the guys. Exactly. It's centered around Black 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:13.420 men. And I'm happy that we're getting back to 00:40:13.420 --> 00:40:16.659 that, adding that element back in. Yeah. And 00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:19.880 I've heard Malcolm say this numerous times that 00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:22.960 the original impetus was to write a story about 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:26.199 Black male friendship. And to center, you know, 00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:28.840 Black excellence from a male perspective, you 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:32.400 know, and friendship in the storytelling. And 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:36.219 I love that this book does that. I love the conversations 00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:39.539 I think it's allowing men to have. And I love 00:40:39.539 --> 00:40:43.380 the growth trajectory that we're able to see 00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:47.079 from a very intimate perspective, very authentic. 00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.960 And what is great about having polarity in the 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.260 writing team is that there are checks to what 00:40:57.260 --> 00:41:00.170 you. would assume about the opposite sex. Like 00:41:00.170 --> 00:41:03.550 there's, you can't just go and make up from a 00:41:03.550 --> 00:41:05.329 character perspective what you think will happen. 00:41:05.550 --> 00:41:09.769 You kind of have to have some, not integrity, 00:41:09.829 --> 00:41:11.289 because I think you have integrity in writing, 00:41:11.409 --> 00:41:13.670 but when there's somebody that's actually sitting 00:41:13.670 --> 00:41:16.010 right there and you have to get this by them 00:41:16.010 --> 00:41:19.409 and get their buy -in for it, that's a whole 00:41:19.409 --> 00:41:21.429 nother level of writing. So I think what you 00:41:21.429 --> 00:41:23.789 see here, there's a lot of energy that's charged 00:41:23.789 --> 00:41:26.610 into the words themselves and into the book that 00:41:26.610 --> 00:41:31.289 has to, do with really bringing the fullness 00:41:31.289 --> 00:41:34.309 of the perspective and having it butt heads with 00:41:34.309 --> 00:41:37.449 the fullness of you know the other perspective 00:41:37.449 --> 00:41:39.550 the female perspective and having it butt heads 00:41:39.550 --> 00:41:41.570 with the fullness of the male perspective in 00:41:41.570 --> 00:41:43.789 the writing so I think that energy is in the 00:41:43.789 --> 00:41:46.829 book and I really do love that about this and 00:41:46.829 --> 00:41:49.489 I think it makes it more more authentic read 00:41:49.489 --> 00:41:53.030 absolutely oh definitely you could totally that's 00:41:53.030 --> 00:41:55.170 the experience that I had yeah you could hear 00:41:55.820 --> 00:41:58.780 both sides of the conversation yeah just the 00:41:58.780 --> 00:42:01.400 way you all organize the way the book is organized 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:04.619 through the chapters it's like okay this is going 00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:06.800 on well what is she thinking what is he thinking 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:10.079 so we get the full breadth of their thoughts 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:13.239 which I thought was just genius oh because it 00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.480 doesn't it doesn't make you wonder like what 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.840 does he well what does he think about this moment 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.079 and you get you get to experience what they both 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.889 think especially in that special moment Yes. 00:42:24.949 --> 00:42:29.710 I was like, whoa. Those special moments. So we 00:42:29.710 --> 00:42:32.710 do get a lot of questions answered. Now, I just 00:42:32.710 --> 00:42:35.170 want to talk before we get back into the Jane 00:42:35.170 --> 00:42:38.150 Allen universe. I just want to ask one question 00:42:38.150 --> 00:42:40.989 because there's a lot of conversation around 00:42:40.989 --> 00:42:44.500 the diaspora. And the one thing that I thought 00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:47.079 was beautiful in this book is that we explore 00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:49.480 the diaspora through this story. We get to go 00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:51.920 to the Caribbean and we meet Jasmine. And then 00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:54.659 now we're on the continent. So we go from the 00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:57.719 Caribbean to the continent. So we get into these 00:42:57.719 --> 00:42:59.880 different cultures outside of Black American 00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:04.599 culture. How important is it for us as Black 00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:08.559 Americans to explore other cultures that's within 00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:12.769 our lineage? I personally think it's very important 00:43:12.769 --> 00:43:16.969 to know where you came from and to know what 00:43:16.969 --> 00:43:20.210 you're connected to because we live in a society 00:43:20.210 --> 00:43:23.909 that lies to us so much about who we are. And 00:43:23.909 --> 00:43:25.409 so I think you have to find out for yourself 00:43:25.409 --> 00:43:29.349 and that's the way to do it. So to see the realities 00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:34.050 of what it means to be of African descent from 00:43:34.050 --> 00:43:38.289 all the true variations of it, I think it's very 00:43:38.289 --> 00:43:40.389 important to see for yourself because you're 00:43:40.389 --> 00:43:42.829 being told a story about it one way or another. 00:43:43.010 --> 00:43:45.510 So you might as well go get the truth so that 00:43:45.510 --> 00:43:49.909 you don't believe what you're being told both 00:43:49.909 --> 00:43:54.070 directly and indirectly and subconsciously. So 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:56.250 I think that's very, very important. And when 00:43:56.250 --> 00:44:02.869 we decided to embody Ghana and Accra in the book, 00:44:02.889 --> 00:44:07.050 it was very important to go there and breathe 00:44:07.050 --> 00:44:10.630 the air and walk the soil, eat the food, hear 00:44:10.630 --> 00:44:13.650 the people, live in the energy of the place. 00:44:13.929 --> 00:44:17.769 And so Malcolm went and did a research trip. 00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:20.480 where he did just that, you know, he was there. 00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.280 That's why it's so alive. And when you read and 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:28.900 you read about the sections about in Ghana, the 00:44:28.900 --> 00:44:31.460 food, I mean, you should be able to taste it. 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:35.280 And I think for us, we don't always get to travel. 00:44:35.340 --> 00:44:36.940 We don't all have passports. You know, we don't 00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:39.519 all have the dispensable income. So you're going 00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:42.159 to go, you know, even if you don't get to go. 00:44:43.309 --> 00:44:45.650 Physically, you're going to go. And you can trust 00:44:45.650 --> 00:44:47.989 the experience of it. You will go in the book. 00:44:48.050 --> 00:44:50.309 And we can do that as writers and authors. And 00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:54.949 I love that about this job is that you can go. 00:44:55.090 --> 00:44:57.130 Even if you can't go right now, I can take you 00:44:57.130 --> 00:44:58.730 in your mind. And if you can go in your mind, 00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:00.449 you can go in your body. Your body will follow. 00:45:00.769 --> 00:45:04.750 So we can deliver that to people through the 00:45:04.750 --> 00:45:07.769 characterization of the locale. Because Ghana 00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:09.769 really did become kind of a character in the 00:45:09.769 --> 00:45:13.900 book. Being able to present that, you know, maybe 00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:16.460 we'll introduce the idea, oh, we should travel, 00:45:16.500 --> 00:45:18.079 we should go see this for ourselves, or I feel 00:45:18.079 --> 00:45:20.820 like I've been and maybe I should go, or just 00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:23.699 the idea that we can, you know, that's important. 00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:27.360 So I think hopefully, you know, if this is a 00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.880 person's first trip to archives and the pages 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.480 of a book, I've heard it's not the first time 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:34.059 I've heard that, you know, that people's first 00:45:34.059 --> 00:45:36.360 trip somewhere is in the pages of a book. So 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.460 I hope that this delivers that for sure. Yeah, 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:42.059 I was the kid watching National National Geographic. 00:45:42.099 --> 00:45:44.659 So I went to all these places. Right, right. 00:45:44.860 --> 00:45:48.300 Exactly. And it was beautiful because I've been 00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.159 to Accra and Ghana. So I was like, oh, I know 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.460 that place. I know that beach. Yeah. You know, 00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:55.239 so it felt like I didn't realize he had been 00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:57.900 there, but it just felt it was me walking back 00:45:57.900 --> 00:46:00.500 through that that trip. Oh, I know how important 00:46:00.500 --> 00:46:03.659 it is. And then what you say is. You do have 00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:05.760 to go see it for yourself because I remember 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:08.179 going, being in a Black girl, American Black 00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:11.159 girl in my 20s. Well, my early 30s, I should 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.380 say. And having all these preconceived notions 00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:16.400 about what life on the continent was and then 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:21.320 getting there and like, they lied. Exactly. Right. 00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:26.579 This is a big old lie. Right. Exactly. Exactly. 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.219 So I appreciate that being, like you said, a 00:46:30.219 --> 00:46:33.010 new character. Ghana being a new character, I 00:46:33.010 --> 00:46:34.889 think it's very important. And I think it's beautiful. 00:46:35.110 --> 00:46:37.489 Now let's get back into the Jane Allen universe. 00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:43.510 Yes, yes. What do you have going on? Is Black 00:46:43.510 --> 00:46:48.230 Girls Must still going to the small screen? Yes, 00:46:48.230 --> 00:46:51.329 it's still in development. But that development 00:46:51.329 --> 00:46:55.130 is just such a process. So yes, it's being worked 00:46:55.130 --> 00:46:59.769 on. And in the meantime, I have a new... manuscript 00:46:59.769 --> 00:47:03.250 i'm cooking up but you said that every time you're 00:47:03.250 --> 00:47:08.809 like i'm and it's like i am doing something completely 00:47:08.809 --> 00:47:11.550 outside the box for me but i wanted to keep growing 00:47:11.550 --> 00:47:14.130 and i'm like i want to keep giving people something 00:47:14.130 --> 00:47:16.329 you know different and also have the opportunity 00:47:16.329 --> 00:47:19.170 to grow myself and to just push the boundaries 00:47:19.170 --> 00:47:22.230 like not get too comfortable so i am doing a 00:47:22.230 --> 00:47:28.960 book about shapeshifters Black shapeshifters. 00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.880 You know, in my head, I was like, I hope it's 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.960 sci -fi. Oh, it's sci -fi. It's sci -fi. But 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:38.159 I'm a sci -fi girl. Yes. Think Octavia Butler. 00:47:38.619 --> 00:47:42.199 Think with a dash of Anne Rice, with a dash of 00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:45.920 Toni Morrison, with a dash of True Blood, HBO. 00:47:46.460 --> 00:47:50.380 That all together. Shake it up in a martini shaker 00:47:50.380 --> 00:47:54.099 and pour it into a chilled glass. That's what 00:47:54.099 --> 00:47:56.989 we do in. Bloody Mary, baby. Yes, it's going 00:47:56.989 --> 00:48:00.389 to be a Bloody Mary for sure. But yeah, so I'm 00:48:00.389 --> 00:48:03.929 like, I'm really excited about how this is shaping 00:48:03.929 --> 00:48:06.769 up. There's a romance subplot, but it's really 00:48:06.769 --> 00:48:09.829 about a woman coming into her own, as I always 00:48:09.829 --> 00:48:13.329 am writing about. As we're all trying to do. 00:48:13.530 --> 00:48:16.010 Right, exactly. Which has basically been all 00:48:16.010 --> 00:48:17.750 that I've written about since I've ever started 00:48:17.750 --> 00:48:22.559 writing. Listen. The Black woman's story is so 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:24.599 many stories and there are very few people writing 00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:29.179 about it in a dynamic way. We have one story 00:48:29.179 --> 00:48:32.539 that's always told, but then all of us that live 00:48:32.539 --> 00:48:35.280 on outside of that story, our stories are not 00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.579 told. So I appreciate that you explore the many 00:48:39.579 --> 00:48:42.159 facets of Black women in all of your writings. 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.400 Thank you. Your fifth book, your sixth book, 00:48:45.579 --> 00:48:50.639 your tenth book. I know. I have a whole laundry 00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.780 list of book concepts that I'm trying to work 00:48:53.780 --> 00:48:56.880 through one by one. So I'm excited about this 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:00.019 one. I'm excited for you. I can't wait to read 00:49:00.019 --> 00:49:03.179 that one. So I am so grateful for your time. 00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:05.980 I know that you have a lot to do. It is always 00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:09.260 a pleasure speaking to you. How can people stay 00:49:09.260 --> 00:49:11.199 in touch with you and to follow your journey? 00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:15.360 Well, the best way to keep in touch is I'm on 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:18.000 Instagram at JaneEllenWrites. I have a mailing 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.420 list. Please join my mailing list. I'm on Substack. 00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:25.260 I think that's the best way. But I have not been 00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:27.239 the best with my mailing list. I just had to 00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.019 say that. But join the mailing list. I'm going 00:49:30.019 --> 00:49:32.579 to get better. And I will be putting my updates 00:49:32.579 --> 00:49:36.619 there. And I have a new podcast that I do. We 00:49:36.619 --> 00:49:40.280 are 32 episodes in. So a lot of times... That's 00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.079 the easiest way for me to disseminate something. 00:49:42.460 --> 00:49:44.900 I will talk about whatever I have going on. So 00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:46.880 it's called We Are Out of Office. And I do it 00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:49.760 with a co -host, my co -host, Nikki T. She's 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.460 a film producer, a film and television producer. 00:49:52.659 --> 00:49:55.480 And we just, we talk about pop culture and life 00:49:55.480 --> 00:50:00.119 and our projects. Oh, you've heard, okay. Y 'all 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:03.900 are funny. Yes, I love the different segments. 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:08.519 I love the conversation. Yeah, I listened to 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:11.159 it. I saw you all on TikTok and I was like, she 00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:15.300 has a podcast. Oh, yes. Yes. Well, you know, 00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:19.860 to me, that often is the easiest way to, you 00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:22.039 know, drop. OK, this is what's going on or this 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.119 is news. And then having someone I'm able to 00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:28.420 do it with makes it so much, so much easier. 00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:31.760 It's much less of a lift. So I think those are 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:34.840 the best places to follow on Instagram and Jane 00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:39.099 Ellen writes. On Substack, probably. But most 00:50:39.099 --> 00:50:41.820 frequently is we are out of office because we 00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:43.940 have an episode every week. So I'll be talking 00:50:43.940 --> 00:50:48.539 about stuff. Jesus Take the Wheel is my favorite 00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:52.760 section. Jesus Take the Wheel. Oh, goodness. 00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:55.380 Yeah, it's a lot of fun. We've been having a 00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:58.679 lot of fun with it. It's really great. So again, 00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:00.900 I want to thank you for your time. You know I 00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:02.599 can always talk to you forever. Right. Well, 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.840 you ask such great questions. I have so many 00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.139 questions. We'll do it again. Definitely. Definitely. 00:51:08.300 --> 00:51:11.659 But I want people to read the book and thank 00:51:11.659 --> 00:51:14.900 you one for saying yes to this project because 00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:18.519 the TV show was not enough. The business was 00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:21.599 not finished. The business is still not finished. 00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:23.739 So that's good. The business is still not finished. 00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:26.440 We still have two more books. Final question. 00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:29.699 What is the second book going to focus on? I 00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:34.989 hope it's Lance. Yes. That's yes. Yes. Because 00:51:34.989 --> 00:51:37.389 I need to see the wedding. I didn't get to see 00:51:37.389 --> 00:51:39.829 the wedding. Well, stay tuned because the second, 00:51:39.989 --> 00:51:43.489 yes. Malcolm has dropped that dime that Lance 00:51:43.489 --> 00:51:45.610 will be part of the focus of the second book 00:51:45.610 --> 00:51:48.730 and his new bride, Jasmine. So my dog has made 00:51:48.730 --> 00:51:53.250 an appearance. Well, I would say goodbye and 00:51:53.250 --> 00:51:56.190 thank you again and happy writing. Thank you 00:51:56.190 --> 00:51:59.690 so much. Thanks for having me. I will see you 00:51:59.690 --> 00:52:13.050 again. Take care. Thank you. For more information, 00:52:13.170 --> 00:52:14.449 keep shining.