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for the ones who get it done. Welcome, and thank
you for tuning in to Black Women Amplified, the
podcast. Your host, Monica Wisdom Tyson, brings
you downloadable conversations that matter to
women around the globe. We discuss all things
Black girl magic, amplify our voices, and transform
our challenges into triumphs. Monica calls on
her league of extraordinary women to push our
boundaries, share their expertise, and stories
of personal transformation. Welcome your host
of Black Women Amplified, Monica Wisdom Tyson.
Hello, Black Women Amplified family. This is
your girl, Monica Wisdom, and I have a very special
guest in the building, and I can't wait to share
her with you. Jane Allen joins us for another
incredible conversation. And if you have heard
her speak... you know that her brilliance leaves
a lasting mark. A five -time best -selling author
who centers Black women in every word, Jane is
living the dream and she's bringing us along
with her. From her beloved Black Girl series
to one of my personal favorites, The Most Wonderful
Time, Jane creates stories that reflect our truth,
our joy, and our complexity. And she does it
all with heart, depth, and humor. Her work reminds
us that we are not alone, that we matter, and
that our stories deserve the spotlight. And now
the queen of trilogies, as I call her, is back
with a bold new chapter. She is teaming up with
the iconic director and filmmaker Malcolm D.
Lee to expand the best man film and television
universe into the literary world. through the
Best Man book series, beginning with book one,
The Best Man Unfinished Business. We're talking
about an intimate return to Harper, Robin, and
Jordan, a deeper dive into their lives, their
growth, and the evolution of these characters
that we have loved for decades. Today, we celebrate
Jane's success and her remarkable journey from
entertainment attorney to author and beyond.
She is not just building a career. Jane is building
a legacy. So tap in, turn it up, and give a warm
Black Women Amplified welcome to the one and
only Jane Allen. Hello, Jane. How are you today?
I am doing wonderful. How are you doing? Wonderfully.
Wonderfully. Yes, I'm doing really great and
I'm excited to have you here. Third time is a
charm. I can't believe you are on your third
project and I get to talk to you about it. I'm
very excited about that. Thank you. This is my
fifth project, but yes, I am very excited for
this one. Your fifth book. Yes. But you had the
trilogy. Yeah. You had the standalone book and
now you have the beginnings of the trilogy. Yes.
My very first co -write. Oh, my God. I can't
wait to get into that because I don't know how
you do that. We can talk about it. We can talk
about it. Yeah. And, you know, I have a million
questions, but I know that you are on a deadline.
And so we're going to get into talking about
all things Jane Allen and all things unfinished
business. Yes. But before we get into unfinished
business, I want to get into your business. And
please share with us a bit about your journey
before you became an author. Well, that's a long
story, but I will summarize it. I started out
as an attorney. I was in the music industry.
And I wound up taking some unconventional, well,
that was already unconventional, but I wound
up making some unconventional choices because
that really wasn't the right fit for me. So I
wound up working with Lady Gaga during the Born
This Way album release. I wound up being hired
by Prince to be part of his team. I wound up
coming into a cosmetics company to do, to basically
turn the business around and rebrand and reposition
the product, which were excellent, excellent
anti -aging products. So I wound up going to
esthetician school, getting an esthetician's
license and a certificate. I'm a certified esthetician
and well, not certified. A licensed esthetician,
I guess. But wound up taking the product line
to QVC and launching that there. Let's not skip
over the fact that you're a Harvard lawyer. Oh,
okay. Well, yes. So many other things have happened
since then. I know, but we have to put that in
there. It's so long ago that I graduated. I was
embarrassing. I'm like, oh goodness, let me just
forget about that. Because when there are dates
attached to some stuff and the time has been
a little bit longer than I feel particularly
good about. Like, yeah, I went to law school.
But yes, that was a wonderful experience completely.
And actually was one of the first opportunities
for me to have a purpose behind writing something
creatively. I was supposed to write a thesis
to graduate from law school. That was supposed
to be a research paper. And I was able to do
a screenplay. So that was the first time where
creative writing actually had a substantive requirement
to it. It was one of my graduation requirements.
thesis advisor, you know, had benchmarks that
I had to meet for the screenplay to be acceptable,
but it did qualify to graduate from Harvard Law.
So very few people, I think, know that. And then
after the cosmetics company, I'd started writing
books in earnest. You know, it felt like my offer
back to people. I've been on this kind of wild
ride of a life and I'm very grateful for it.
It has taught me so much that I think. maybe
uncommon lessons in a way. And so I felt like
my books would be my offering back to my community,
to people who, you know, I felt like could benefit
from some of the things that, not necessarily
the experience itself, but the takeaways, you
know, after I processed it and kind of thought,
what did this experience teach me? And what do
I have to share? That's what motivated me to
start writing books. So you have had, like you
said, you've taken a journey through many careers
and have excelled in all of them. You know, it
wasn't like you were, you know, working at a
burger joint and then you started writing books.
I mean, you're working with icons like Prince
and Lady Gaga and you're graduating from Harvard
and you're planting the seeds of your future
at the university, at this top university. But
you did pivot in many different directions that.
are not connected to one another specifically.
So because a lot of Black women are in, we're
in this era where there's a lot of pivot, whether
it's forced or choice, what is your process of
going into a different career? And how do you
pick where you're going? Or does it just happen
and you do the, make the best of it? Or are you
very intentional of your next step? It's so funny
that you're asking me this because I'm actually
working on a nonfiction project right now kind
of about this, about not necessarily the pivot,
but having to pick a new direction and do that
successfully when things don't go the way that
you expect. And I'm very intentional. I do actually
have a process. And I've been through so many
situations where I've had to rethink, pick up
pieces from opportunities that didn't work out
the way that I thought that it's clear for me
exactly what to do. And I think the bottom line
of it, the first step for me always is having
a clear vision and knowing where do I want to
go? And the question that I ask myself that I
think is difficult for a lot of people to even
approach, strangely enough, is what do you want?
and asking myself you know what do I want or
someone asking them I ask people all the time
what do you want you'd be shocked or maybe not
but it's it's surprising to me every time that
people can't answer that question so it takes
a lot of work to actually know that for yourself
what do I want right now And it doesn't have
to be what you're going to want in 10 years.
It doesn't have to be what you wanted yesterday.
You know, it may change next week. But just getting,
pinning down what it is that you want right now
is, to me, the first step in any kind of pivot
or picking up the pieces from something that
didn't go as expected, for sure. So what are
some of the missteps that you made when you were
going in different directions? You know, it's
hard. call anything a misstep because I feel
like it has worked out but I think that things
didn't go as expected many many times when I
there were opportunities that I thought were
going to be more stable like I worked in startups
for many jobs I was in startups for many years
and there was so much instability that I had
not accounted for. And I thought, okay, this
is well -funded, so this is going to go well.
But that doesn't necessarily mean, well -funded
does not necessarily mean that there's a lot
of runway. You can spend a lot of money in a
year with a startup. Or it doesn't necessarily
mean that your decisions and what you would do
is what the management decides to do. And so
sometimes you're just in this unstable situation
and you're also at the mercy of... someone else's
choices and decisions. So for me, one of the
earliest lessons I learned was to always have
my own thing going, always. So no matter what
I was doing for someone else, never lose sight
of what my own mission was and to always have
my own project. So that was a mistake I made
early on that I rectified early on and have not
deviated from since. Hence you working on a manuscript.
At all times. At all times. So talk to us about,
I find it fascinating how in the beginning of
your, you said you wrote books. This is the story
of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high
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apply. Did you write a book before the Black
Girl Magic trilogy? I'm calling it the Black
Girl Magic trilogy. I did. I'd written nonfiction
books. I wrote about social media. I wrote about
time management. Some of the books I published,
some of them I didn't. I was just teaching myself
how to write books. You know, so the best way
to learn is to do. And so I just set it. First
book I wrote, I wrote in my office. because I
had to be at work, you know, but needed to do
something else with my brain. And so in my downtime,
I would just, you know, start working on a manuscript.
to make sure I could get to a book length for
manuscript and encapsulate a full idea. It was
nonfiction. I never published that book, but
I printed, I wrote it. I had it in manuscript
layout, you know, publishing layout. I got it
printed, everything. And I just gave copies away
to people because I just wanted to prove to myself
that what. My thought was about what I could
do and couldn't do, because at that time, my
belief was that I could not write a book, believe
it or not. And so I just wanted to test that
belief. And so the low stakes version of that
was to see if I could write a book, which I did,
and then, you know, get it printed. And I didn't
have to publish it, but, you know, I gave it
away to people and they thought it was pretty
good. You know, it just tapped me on my shoulder
and said, good job. You know, it was pretty good.
It was worth $3 .99. Now you have a dynamic way
of writing characters and you have two dynamic
main characters in your Black Girls Must series,
the trilogy, and as well as the book that I'm
completely in love with. Oh, the most wonderful
time. The most wonderful time. And I am waiting
on this to become at least a duel. Because I
need to know what happens to Ramona and Jake.
Oh, really? Okay. I'll keep that in mind. So
Tabitha Walker is a dynamic woman, as well as
Ramona Tucker. How did you go into writing their
worlds? And why was it important to tell their
stories? Well, with Black Girls Must Have Gossip,
which is the first book in the Black Girls trilogy,
Black Girls Must Be Magic and Black Girls Must
Have It All, I wanted to celebrate Black women.
That was my first goal, first and foremost. And
I wanted to celebrate us for all of the aspects
of who we are, including and especially the aspects
that people would say societally are ugly, less
than or damaged or whatever. I wanted to celebrate
and highlight. all of it and all of us. And so
with Tabby, she is a character that allowed me
to do that. And I'm really grateful to Tabby
because I put her through a lot of horrible things.
But ultimately, it's all about the happy ending
and I don't write unresolved trauma. And I think
the happy ending, when I say it's all about the
happy ending, I mean the happiest ending for
that character, not like a conventional happy
ending where it's just kind of... formulaic like
this is how it's supposed to go my character's
happy endings may not look like that because
for them what their happy ending like the best
thing for them may not be getting the guy and
the marriage and the whatever that like that
their happy ending might be something completely
different but it's what they need or they most
want so or that's the adventure that they should
be on you know for now So Tabby was a character
that allowed me to show a lot of things about
Black women that I don't feel like we get to
show. Like, she's very uncertain about a lot
of things. She doesn't have it all together.
She kind of falls apart sometimes. She's flawed
in a lot of ways that we don't get permission
to be as Black women in society. And so I wanted
to give us that and give her the space and support
to be all of that. And not have it be too much,
not have it be, you know, her downfall or demise,
you know, that she can build from there and be
imperfect and still win. And so that was really
important to me to show with Tabby Walker and
her story with the Black, throughout the trilogy.
Because, I mean, it's a saga. It's a long journey
for Tabby. And then for Ramona Tucker. Same kind
of thing, but a different kind of woman. Ramona
had it all together. She very much had it all
together, but it all falls apart. And then she
has to find another version of having it together
that is more authentic to herself. Once she did
all the things she was supposed to do, and then
that didn't really come together in the way that
she thought, getting outside of... not just those
boxes and the box, but just getting outside of
her space, of her world, of her, you know, everything
that she'd known to be presented with something
completely new and being able to find herself
accepted in a new space, in a new way. I wanted
to show that. I mean, I just put her in all kinds
of new situations. And I think she's a character
that... anybody should be able to live through,
but Blackwood in particular, I love the idea
of being able to put them in Ramona's shoes and
put them in those spaces and be loved on in that
way and to be embraced by the ocean in that way
and to find the way forward in the way that she
does. I love Ramona Tucker as a character. I
love her journey. I was so happy with how that
book came out. I didn't know how it was going
to go, but I just love it. I love it. Yeah, I
loved it, too. And it was the first time I had
heard about the Black Surfing Organization. Oh,
yes. And I loved how all the research that you
did to make sure it was a rank true. Yeah. So
that when they read it, they saw themselves.
And it defied the myths of Black folks don't
swim. We do swim. We do. We do. And have always.
And have always. And have always. Now you are
walking into this new space. You build worlds,
but now you're walking into the best man galaxy.
And not only is it a galaxy, but it's a 25 year
legacy. Yes. And how are you able to walk into
that space? And what was the phone call that
you got for the invitation? Well, those are two
different questions. The first was that the outreach,
Malcolm, Malcolm D. Lee, the writer, director,
creator of The Best Man, his agent reached out
to me and asked if I might be interested in writing
The Best Man books. I was like, what? So I didn't
even think it was, I was like, of course, yes,
this is amazing. I couldn't even imagine something
better for me in particular, but also just as
a project. And so I said it to my agent. I was
like, is this real? Can you bring that up? Is
this AI or is this real? Is somebody playing
with me? Like, does AI know me too well? So,
yeah, so she's like, yeah, you know, eventually
it came to a point where I had a conversation
with Malcolm. We really had a good. opportunity
to speak. And I was just, I was very excited
about it. And then in subsequent conversation,
because we kind of just talked through what the
project would be and what his expectations were,
what was he trying to create? And he has said
that the question I asked him, I think in his
second call, I was like, I was just thinking
through this and I was like, okay, this is gonna
be a huge undertaking. It's gonna be so challenging.
I think people don't realize. When you have existing
characters with a 25 -year history that everybody
knows these characters, the first opportunity
to meet these characters was on screen, not on
the page. And then you need to give people the
same cinematic value or higher with already established
characters in a book. Like, this is, I mean,
if you're like... Final Jeopardy. Like the hardest
thing you could possibly imagine doing. This
would be it. Like epic soundtrack, best man circa
1999, epic soundtrack, amazing, gorgeous actors,
incredible screenwriting performances, all of
it, immaculate quality and excellence. And now
we have to create that experience at that level
for. in a reader's mind with just black and white
words on a page. Are you serious? And not only
that, these are characters we grew up with. We
chronologically grew up with them. They were
always at the same stage of life. Everybody knows.
So I was just like, oh my gosh, this is going
to be so challenging. I'm here for it. But the
one question that I had for him, I was like,
do you want to win? And he was like, what? He
was a little taken. But he was like, well, yeah,
I want to win, you know, and that. But the question
I was asking him was like, are you going to go
all in with me? Because I was like, I just knew
this was going to require an all in approach.
Like it wasn't going to be something that we
could halfway do or, you know, or just like kind
of have at it and see how it goes. Like it would
have to go well and by any means necessary kind
of way, you know. And I just knew what that was
going to take. And so I knew I would go all the
way. And I just wanted to hear from him that
that was what he was anticipating this would
be. And so that was what we did. I mean, we went
all in. We worked together for a year. We worked
so, so intensively on this project. And what
I will say for sure, as I've gotten to know him,
is that he has been the custodian of excellence
for this. for 25 years, unwaveringly. And nothing
has changed about what this book is in continuation
of that standard. But to really get to work with
somebody whose custodianship is so immaculate
and whose standard of excellence is so high and
so immaculate, for me as a writer, that's a dream.
And beyond having the opportunity to write cinematically
and work and think more cinematically and to
think how a director would think and to write
into that space and to try to craft this as an
experience for somebody who might even not be
a reader, but who might be a screen, you know,
who is a screen first person. But to kind of
bring them into this kind of way of experiencing,
it's absolutely been incredible. So I feel so
fortunate. So happy that people are enjoying
the work. I hope people understand how challenging
it was. But we had to come through for the folks.
You did. And you did. Because let me tell you,
I was like, ooh, how are they going to do that?
Because they're already fully formed people.
It's like having to go back to the beginning
again. With fully formed people that you can't
take them back to being a baby. Right. You know,
you can't take them back to those childhood days
or those young college days when we first met
them. Right. You know, as silly young people,
just all the things. And then the TV show, you
see them getting married. And now in the book,
their kids are in college. So you get to see
a full scope of them. And then how do you take
them to three more books, you know, three books?
But if anybody can do it, it's the queen of trilogies.
That's hilarious. Well, you know what? The interesting
thing about this and those characters that I
was thinking about this, you know, they're very,
very successful people in their midlife, in their
mid -50s. I mean, you have Jordan, who was the
vice chairman of MSNBC. So even just that position.
what that world looks like, what that realistically
looks like. You know, there's just certain things
that you have to. kind of know or to be able
to depict somebody who's living this life experience
in that world and in that space. And these are
wildly successful. They're very mature people.
So when you're trying to continue their journey
authentically, you really have to pull from a
place. So I'm glad you asked what was my career
like before writing, because there were just
certain things that thankfully we could pull
from to. depict where these people would be that
that is a progression from what you've already
seen but it's that's very you know you've got
a professional all -star a pro bowler in Lance
Sullivan and he's living life after the NFL you
know so you have to really bring what this type
of person would really realistically be like
and and you know what their maturity and their
expectations and to construct a world around
them and and Harper Stuart won the Pulitzer.
These are not just, this is not like - Regular
folk. Yeah, exactly. And he's 50 plus, you know?
So there's a certain level of maturity and evolution
that really has to be reached for. And the levels
of Black excellence that we had to strive for
here and bring into the pages was kind of epic.
So there was a lot that went into it for sure.
Did you know that Black Women Amplified has a
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join. And I can tell, I mean, I can't imagine.
You're both coming from two different worlds,
you and Malcolm Lee. He's a filmmaker and you're
a writer. How did you connect those elements
together? Because he writes from the bigger picture.
And you go into the details of each person and
you're creating their whole worlds. How did that
connect? And what was that process like? That's
a really good question. We were, we had a lot
of conversations to start and the conversations
were about life, about understanding from a fundamental
human perspective, certain circumstances that.
Either we saw on the screen or that has been
part of the story that has unfolded to this point
or some of the things that we've seen from some
of the characters. So then that's the opportunity
to ask more questions and kind of excavate more
story, create more story, create more backstory,
blossom the story a little bit. more than what
you get to do on screen. And so that was just
in conversation and thinking through from a human
perspective and what we know about humanity,
what we can pull from the character. And Malcolm
is really a repository of, he knows these characters
so well. So to be able to ask him, well, why
would this person think this? Or why would they
say that? Any number of things that were important
to the story or what's the story behind this?
You know, we need to tell that story. So we worked
really well together in that way because he had
that information available. He knows those characters
inside and out and can voice them. And funny
thing was when we first started, because I was
a little panicked because, you know, it's so
funny naturally. Like the movies are so funny
and there's just a natural humor. And I was so
I was worried. I was like, well, how much? of
what we saw on screen was improv. I was like,
how are we going to re -implicate? He was like,
no, that was all on the page. He's like, those
were masterful performances. He's like, but that
was all on the page. I was like, it was. Thank
goodness. Thank goodness. And then when - Have
you had him send you the screenplay? No, we didn't
need the screenplay, but in writing the manuscript,
it was amazing to see the dialogue take shape
because - And as a writer, when you're writing
dialogue, in the best, highest form of dialogue,
in the highest standard of excellence, you do
not need quotations. You do not need dialogue
tags. You do not need to say who said it. You
should be able to know just from the words alone.
That's the highest standard of dialogue. And
see, for me at least, I don't know, people can
feel free to disagree. But that's how I look
at it. And when I saw the dialogue take shape,
or sometimes I would see Malcolm add some dialogue
in or see something, it was so clearly embodied
in just those words, the character's voice. It
was so clear. And you'll see in the book, which
has gone through rounds and rounds and rounds
of editing and refinement, but even just the
raw. writing and the manuscript, you could, you
could hear the characters because he's just so
in tuned in to them and their voices. Yes. When
I was reading it, I'm a visual person. And so
I could visualize Harper. I'm like, oh yeah,
he, that's him, you know, or Robin. I'm like,
yeah, she's always a little apprehensive about
life. And then Jordan. Yep. That's her. Yeah.
Yeah. Like when she was in the meeting and she
was in her head, like, I'm Jordan MF and Armstrong.
I said, yep, that's her. Right. It's like, it's
great to be able to be in their heads too. And
like to really get to know them. I just feel
like it's such a great hang with these people
where it just feels like you're really there
with them. So as a fan of the movies, if you
are, you know, if somebody is, I am, and I love
reading the book. I was so excited to be done
with it. So I go back and read it. So as many
times. I read it in editing. I'm not sick of
it. I started reading it again. I was listening
to the audio book. I was like, I want to listen.
Who read the audio book? Oh, there's three. Don't
give me the lines. There's three voice actors.
Jacoby Dia, who everybody loves. It's like the
male voice actor that everybody loves him. Okay.
And I don't have the names in front of me, but
there are three phenomenal voice actors. I've
heard nothing but rave reviews. I love when actors
read the audio book as opposed to the author
reading it. Oh, yeah. The first book I read that
was audio book was Zora Neale Hurston's book
and Ruby Dee was reading it. Oh, yeah. And she
created all the characters. I was like, oh, this
is this is the best thing ever. Yeah, it's its
own art form. I think I have so much reverence
for the audio book. the readers and the format.
I couldn't, people would ask me, are you going
to do your audio book? I'm like, no. When you
really have a strong character, when you really
have a strong plot, it will take on a life of
its own because you just know as an author that
it almost becomes like a parallel reality where
you're just the scribe, you know, you're just
observing it. You know, you kind of can see how
it would take shape and what you want it to be
is not. you know, not the truth. So not the truth
of it. So there were a lot of changes that happened
in the course of writing that just, you know,
as we realized it, as the story was unfolding,
oh no, you know, this is the authentic way. So
what you read is, is the most authentic truth
that we could find for this story, for this book.
And done beautifully. Now in this story, we get
to see Robin and Donna and Jordan has moved on
to Nestled in Malibu and Harper is trying to
figure Harper out as he's always doing. Right.
But I want to talk a little bit about Robin and
Jordan. They both took the time to choose themselves.
I might've been the only person that was happy
to see Robin leave Harper and go live her life.
I think I was the only person that said, yes,
girl. We met like five other people on book tour
who also felt that way. Go, please save yourself.
But I wanted to talk a little bit about the process
of choosing yourself and how important was that
in weaving that into this story? Well, I think
you're seeing two different versions of that
from two very different women. I think you're
seeing that from Jordan and Jordan's version
of that. And I think you're seeing it from Robin
and Robin's version of that. Something very interesting
has come up in the conversations we've had with
readers where a lot of people can relate to Jordan's
version of choosing herself, even though it seems
unconventional. Because Jordan quit her job as
the vice chairman of MSNBC and nobody forced
her to do that. She chose herself and her health
and she walked away. That is, you know, extreme.
And that is a controversial type of decision,
but most people can relate to that and understand
that. And maybe because the health component
was part of it. But what we've heard from readers
about Robin's journey is very, very different.
And most people... just haven't really she gets
under people's skin and in particular black women
and so it's interesting to see that version of
choosing yourself and why and ask ourselves well
why does this one this unconventional version
bother us so much you know this is You know,
arguably nothing went wrong. You know, Harper
still sees his daughter. You know, she's living
her best life in Ghana. She chose to leave the
country because it wasn't serving her to be here.
She made a choice for her daughter that she thought
was the best one for both of them. And why did
that bother us? Why does that bother us so much?
You know, and what about Robin? Do we? gets under
our skin. And what do we feel like she should
be? And it made me think about Tabby a lot because
there were conversations I have with readers
about Tabby and she got under people's skin because
we don't get that opportunity to be supported
in being uncertain. We don't get that opportunity
to think things are going to be okay if we don't
have it all figured out. And so when we see somebody
like that, it just triggers our panic button.
And so, you know, I think that Robin's journey
in particular and Jordan's also, but the part
of Robin's journey that might get under people's
skin, I think it's a very good opportunity for
conversation. Well, it gets very, he's a good
man, Savannah. Like you should just stay. You
have this successful man. He's got all the accoutrement
of this Black excellence man. And you walk away
from it all to go live in. you know, what people
perceive as a third world country, but they don't
know the beauty and the, you know, the elegance
of being in a cry and all the things. So, yeah,
I get that, but it is two very different journeys,
but I was cheering for Robin. I was like, yes,
go, bye. You can start a support group of people
who feel similarly, and there will be like five
people at your meeting. Well, you know, there's
a whole mass exodus of Black women leaving the
country now. I know, but I think that people
have been feeling a way about Robin. I was like,
okay, we're going to see. But it's been interesting.
I'm here for that conversation because I always
want to know. Because I just remember with Tabby,
it was just interesting to sit in book clubs
and hear people talk about, I don't know, she
just gets on my nerves. I'm like, well, what
about it? I'm like, do we have the grace as Black
women in particular to not have it figured out?
to to be messy because especially at that time
I think we're having more conversations about
mental health now I think there's you know this
is eight years later or seven years later but
at that time I think we are still really scratching
you know at the surface of getting to the conversations
around personal well -being and decision making
that honors well -being over all the supposed
to's And Jordan was leaving a job. So everybody
has that. I can't wait to quit this job. But
then you're leaving a relationship. That's a
different conversation. Yeah. And you're taking
your child away from her dad and all of those
pieces to it. So one thing I can say is unfinished
business is grown people's business. Because
there were some unexpected groan moments. Right,
right. So far, I've gotten through two. I'm like,
oh, my God, I'm just halfway through this book.
It's spicy. I just have one question. Was there
a safe word when you were writing the copy? There
was no holds barred in writing the copy. I mean,
you know, there were moments where we had to
dial it back a little bit. But we really wanted
to, you know, it's grown people. I think it's
important to see grown people being grown. I
mean, otherwise it's just inauthentic. And what
I love about the, in particular, the steamy,
intimate moments that you see in the book, they're
really meant to be character explorations in
the same vein as dialogue, in the same vein as
seeing what decisions they make in any other
kind of circumstance. So it's really meant to
be kind of impactful. characterization opportunity
where you get to learn something about this character
i mean yes it's a it's an intimate moment it's
steamy it's cheeky it's you know it's body it's
fun but it's also very much that character in
that moment you're you know you're learning a
lot or those characters or you know what's happening
so it's really integral to the story it is part
of the plot there is no gratuitous nudity i was
like no wait a minute We should have a warning
just so I can have my glass of wine ready. Whatever
else you need, glass of wine, whatever you need.
But yeah, just, I mean, now, you know, if you
see this book series, just have your picnic basket
ready. But the way that it's written is very
beautiful. Thank you. I can't think of the word
now, but it's just very beautifully written.
And it's just a natural progression. And the
one thing I loved about this writing is, you
know, Harper in the TV series, he wasn't around
a lot. And the only time you get to see him with
emotion is if he's angry or he's doing something
he has no business doing. So to hear his inner
world is great because now you get to understand
him better. And you get to see his process of
why he makes the decisions that he makes. So
I think that's important that we get to see the
inner world of Black men. Because that's where
this franchise started was with the friends,
the guys. Exactly. It's centered around Black
men. And I'm happy that we're getting back to
that, adding that element back in. Yeah. And
I've heard Malcolm say this numerous times that
the original impetus was to write a story about
Black male friendship. And to center, you know,
Black excellence from a male perspective, you
know, and friendship in the storytelling. And
I love that this book does that. I love the conversations
I think it's allowing men to have. And I love
the growth trajectory that we're able to see
from a very intimate perspective, very authentic.
And what is great about having polarity in the
writing team is that there are checks to what
you. would assume about the opposite sex. Like
there's, you can't just go and make up from a
character perspective what you think will happen.
You kind of have to have some, not integrity,
because I think you have integrity in writing,
but when there's somebody that's actually sitting
right there and you have to get this by them
and get their buy -in for it, that's a whole
nother level of writing. So I think what you
see here, there's a lot of energy that's charged
into the words themselves and into the book that
has to, do with really bringing the fullness
of the perspective and having it butt heads with
the fullness of you know the other perspective
the female perspective and having it butt heads
with the fullness of the male perspective in
the writing so I think that energy is in the
book and I really do love that about this and
I think it makes it more more authentic read
absolutely oh definitely you could totally that's
the experience that I had yeah you could hear
both sides of the conversation yeah just the
way you all organize the way the book is organized
through the chapters it's like okay this is going
on well what is she thinking what is he thinking
so we get the full breadth of their thoughts
which I thought was just genius oh because it
doesn't it doesn't make you wonder like what
does he well what does he think about this moment
and you get you get to experience what they both
think especially in that special moment Yes.
I was like, whoa. Those special moments. So we
do get a lot of questions answered. Now, I just
want to talk before we get back into the Jane
Allen universe. I just want to ask one question
because there's a lot of conversation around
the diaspora. And the one thing that I thought
was beautiful in this book is that we explore
the diaspora through this story. We get to go
to the Caribbean and we meet Jasmine. And then
now we're on the continent. So we go from the
Caribbean to the continent. So we get into these
different cultures outside of Black American
culture. How important is it for us as Black
Americans to explore other cultures that's within
our lineage? I personally think it's very important
to know where you came from and to know what
you're connected to because we live in a society
that lies to us so much about who we are. And
so I think you have to find out for yourself
and that's the way to do it. So to see the realities
of what it means to be of African descent from
all the true variations of it, I think it's very
important to see for yourself because you're
being told a story about it one way or another.
So you might as well go get the truth so that
you don't believe what you're being told both
directly and indirectly and subconsciously. So
I think that's very, very important. And when
we decided to embody Ghana and Accra in the book,
it was very important to go there and breathe
the air and walk the soil, eat the food, hear
the people, live in the energy of the place.
And so Malcolm went and did a research trip.
where he did just that, you know, he was there.
That's why it's so alive. And when you read and
you read about the sections about in Ghana, the
food, I mean, you should be able to taste it.
And I think for us, we don't always get to travel.
We don't all have passports. You know, we don't
all have the dispensable income. So you're going
to go, you know, even if you don't get to go.
Physically, you're going to go. And you can trust
the experience of it. You will go in the book.
And we can do that as writers and authors. And
I love that about this job is that you can go.
Even if you can't go right now, I can take you
in your mind. And if you can go in your mind,
you can go in your body. Your body will follow.
So we can deliver that to people through the
characterization of the locale. Because Ghana
really did become kind of a character in the
book. Being able to present that, you know, maybe
we'll introduce the idea, oh, we should travel,
we should go see this for ourselves, or I feel
like I've been and maybe I should go, or just
the idea that we can, you know, that's important.
So I think hopefully, you know, if this is a
person's first trip to archives and the pages
of a book, I've heard it's not the first time
I've heard that, you know, that people's first
trip somewhere is in the pages of a book. So
I hope that this delivers that for sure. Yeah,
I was the kid watching National National Geographic.
So I went to all these places. Right, right.
Exactly. And it was beautiful because I've been
to Accra and Ghana. So I was like, oh, I know
that place. I know that beach. Yeah. You know,
so it felt like I didn't realize he had been
there, but it just felt it was me walking back
through that that trip. Oh, I know how important
it is. And then what you say is. You do have
to go see it for yourself because I remember
going, being in a Black girl, American Black
girl in my 20s. Well, my early 30s, I should
say. And having all these preconceived notions
about what life on the continent was and then
getting there and like, they lied. Exactly. Right.
This is a big old lie. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
So I appreciate that being, like you said, a
new character. Ghana being a new character, I
think it's very important. And I think it's beautiful.
Now let's get back into the Jane Allen universe.
Yes, yes. What do you have going on? Is Black
Girls Must still going to the small screen? Yes,
it's still in development. But that development
is just such a process. So yes, it's being worked
on. And in the meantime, I have a new... manuscript
i'm cooking up but you said that every time you're
like i'm and it's like i am doing something completely
outside the box for me but i wanted to keep growing
and i'm like i want to keep giving people something
you know different and also have the opportunity
to grow myself and to just push the boundaries
like not get too comfortable so i am doing a
book about shapeshifters Black shapeshifters.
You know, in my head, I was like, I hope it's
sci -fi. Oh, it's sci -fi. It's sci -fi. But
I'm a sci -fi girl. Yes. Think Octavia Butler.
Think with a dash of Anne Rice, with a dash of
Toni Morrison, with a dash of True Blood, HBO.
That all together. Shake it up in a martini shaker
and pour it into a chilled glass. That's what
we do in. Bloody Mary, baby. Yes, it's going
to be a Bloody Mary for sure. But yeah, so I'm
like, I'm really excited about how this is shaping
up. There's a romance subplot, but it's really
about a woman coming into her own, as I always
am writing about. As we're all trying to do.
Right, exactly. Which has basically been all
that I've written about since I've ever started
writing. Listen. The Black woman's story is so
many stories and there are very few people writing
about it in a dynamic way. We have one story
that's always told, but then all of us that live
on outside of that story, our stories are not
told. So I appreciate that you explore the many
facets of Black women in all of your writings.
Thank you. Your fifth book, your sixth book,
your tenth book. I know. I have a whole laundry
list of book concepts that I'm trying to work
through one by one. So I'm excited about this
one. I'm excited for you. I can't wait to read
that one. So I am so grateful for your time.
I know that you have a lot to do. It is always
a pleasure speaking to you. How can people stay
in touch with you and to follow your journey?
Well, the best way to keep in touch is I'm on
Instagram at JaneEllenWrites. I have a mailing
list. Please join my mailing list. I'm on Substack.
I think that's the best way. But I have not been
the best with my mailing list. I just had to
say that. But join the mailing list. I'm going
to get better. And I will be putting my updates
there. And I have a new podcast that I do. We
are 32 episodes in. So a lot of times... That's
the easiest way for me to disseminate something.
I will talk about whatever I have going on. So
it's called We Are Out of Office. And I do it
with a co -host, my co -host, Nikki T. She's
a film producer, a film and television producer.
And we just, we talk about pop culture and life
and our projects. Oh, you've heard, okay. Y 'all
are funny. Yes, I love the different segments.
I love the conversation. Yeah, I listened to
it. I saw you all on TikTok and I was like, she
has a podcast. Oh, yes. Yes. Well, you know,
to me, that often is the easiest way to, you
know, drop. OK, this is what's going on or this
is news. And then having someone I'm able to
do it with makes it so much, so much easier.
It's much less of a lift. So I think those are
the best places to follow on Instagram and Jane
Ellen writes. On Substack, probably. But most
frequently is we are out of office because we
have an episode every week. So I'll be talking
about stuff. Jesus Take the Wheel is my favorite
section. Jesus Take the Wheel. Oh, goodness.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. We've been having a
lot of fun with it. It's really great. So again,
I want to thank you for your time. You know I
can always talk to you forever. Right. Well,
you ask such great questions. I have so many
questions. We'll do it again. Definitely. Definitely.
But I want people to read the book and thank
you one for saying yes to this project because
the TV show was not enough. The business was
not finished. The business is still not finished.
So that's good. The business is still not finished.
We still have two more books. Final question.
What is the second book going to focus on? I
hope it's Lance. Yes. That's yes. Yes. Because
I need to see the wedding. I didn't get to see
the wedding. Well, stay tuned because the second,
yes. Malcolm has dropped that dime that Lance
will be part of the focus of the second book
and his new bride, Jasmine. So my dog has made
an appearance. Well, I would say goodbye and
thank you again and happy writing. Thank you
so much. Thanks for having me. I will see you
again. Take care. Thank you. For more information,
keep shining.